The Awakening of ME - DivorceBusting.com

Time for a new thread!

So, tell us about our awakening. Did you speak to your h yet?

I am 1 year and 2 months in since BD. I have come a long way, but still have a long way to go.

Since our talk yesterday about H moving out, I am back in the twilight zone. H went to Costco and bought all kinds of food and goodies for us. He was in a very happy and playful mood.

Which brings me to a question. I have noticed when times get tense between us, H seems to be happier than ever. In one conversation, where he had said the words "I think we should get a divorce", 10 minutes later I passed by him singing to himself. Really hurt me, but I am learning this is a coping mechanism? I have read others same the same about their S's. Being almost overly happy.

Anyway, the night was really nice. Had dinner, hung out all together. At one point H chased me with a dead mesquito. I grabbed his arm playfully and wow, having such limited physical contact makes any touch special.

So I am so confused. It's nights like these that remind me of what I am standing and fighting for. Why can't we have this life all the time? If we could have that, plus a romantic connection between H and I, it could be so good. And it's so possible. So so possible. It's almost like H is back this week. He has been spending so much time with S. He took the full week of for vacation, so he is picking up S after school and they are hanging out and they are both just glowing! It warms my heart so much. This is us, the real us. How long will it last?

Of course, deep in my heart, I don't want H to move out. I just can't deal with the weirdness at home with him the majority of the time. And I am so obsessed with finding out if there is an OW or not. So things will be going well at home, then bam, something sets me off and I shut down and hold back from things I could be doing to help our R. Please, someone, give me a 2 x 4 whack of how I can get myself OUT of this mindset.

I can see he responds well to my attention. I can feel that he enjoys us all together.

I guess I should continue to work on detaching, letting go of whether there is an OW or not. If I could just do that...... I will continue to show attention with no expectations and watch the results. I am so back and forth, I think I can be as crazy as H sometimes. Really. I need help.

I leave for Carmel tomorrow with my girlfriends for our girl weekend trip. I am really looking forward to it. Hanging with my girls always give me that boost. I plan on coming back refreshed and strong again. I can do this.

Hi Job. Here is my post of our talk yesterday. It was on my old thread:

I went home at lunch and H was home since he took the week of for vacation to do the hunting thing. Since S is at school, it was a perfect time to talk. I stayed very calm. We talked about everything, I validated his feelings, talked about my own. He got upset a few times about my parenting and how I treated him. I can't get over the anger he has towards me sometimes. He still swears he is doing what he says with who he says. I asked him if he had any ideas on how to make it possible to live at home and have it be comfortable for us all as it just isn't working for me. He agreed that it wasn't working for him either. That he doesn't like sleeping in the spare room, but that he just cant...... He stopped there. Sleep with me is most likely what he would have said? Am I a leper now? I cried a little, couldn't help it, but there was no comfort from him. I expected that too.

So I went over the 3 options. To talk with someone alone, talk with someone together or leave. I explained that it just didn't make sense to stay in the house if we are not actively working on our marriage together. Not to mention the example S is getting. He agreed with that. So, he says he must need to move out then. He talked about the financial situation and what if he isn't paying me enough then we find out later that he owes me some lump sum of money.....Really?? I told him I am not out to get him. That this situation has made us look at each other as monsters and he knows I am not the type of person to go after someone. I told him we will make it work so that we are both financially comfortable. That we will figure it out. And that no matter what happens we will stay friends since we have a son to raise together and will be in each other's lives for a long time. He put his head in his hands and just sat there for a minute.

I asked if the separation would be to take a break and see what happens? H said he is hoping the space would ease some of the tension between us and we can be friends again. Of course still no commitment either way.

So I was prepared for that, he is pretty clear in that he "doesn't have it in him to work on us". I am now curious to see if he really does this. I am not going to help him look for a place, he needs this reality check on his own. He was overwhelmed just talking about where to move and what he needs in the house to park his vechicles and blah blah blah. His problem, not mine.

I feel better. I ate for the first time in 2 days. I also stopped crying for the first time in 24 hours. This is why I had to take this step. It may bite me by pushing him out, but I know this is not the way I can live either.

So, you had a nice conversation w/him while your son was at school. I'm glad things worked out that way so that your son wasn't around when you did this. From your posting, sounds like you were calm and straight forward w/him. Of course, he's not going say he's committed right now because he's still out to lunch a bit. I had to smile when I saw that he was going to move out, and yet, he's finding some excuses about the car, etc. Yes, my dear, it's his problem to figure out. You've done all you can and you are still trying to be the compassionate person that you've always been.

Step back, allow him to flounder and hunt for his own place. He's got to grow up and what better time than now to do so. You can always rent out a room if you need additional funds after he's gone. I know that there are a lot of students out there just looking for a place to crash while going to college, etc.

You and your son are going to be okay. This talk may have been just what you needed to continue moving forward. He needed to hear what you had to say and now he knows just where you stand.

I'm glad you are feeling better. One heavy elephant has left the room for you. Enjoy your weekend away.

I wanted to come back and point out that he feels better after he says he wants a divorce because, to him, it's a defense mechanism that he thinks will make you step back and leave him alone. Many of them yell and stomp their feet saying they want a divorce, and yet, do nothing in the way of getting the ball rolling.

You've already begun to notice how he behaves after he's said this. It use to made me so angry when my xh would do this and as time went by, I realized what he was doing. Continue to observe and you'll see how "I want a divorce" is his mantra whenever you get too close or call him on his behavior, i.e., just like a child that says he hates mommy when he's call on bad behavior.

I agree with what job says above.

I believe my H did not/does not really want a divorce.

He filed because it was a way to shut me up, get me to back off, put me on the defensive instead of the offensive I was on after I discovered OW.

He also had fears that I would file a "fault divorce" and drag him through court with his adultery for all the world to see. (I wouldn't have, but I threatened it out of anger back then.)

He has done nothing to move it forward since then, but, as job says, every time he got defensive or felt pressured or criticized by me---he pulled it out.

Saying: "Well, it doesn't MATTER because I WANT A DIVORCE!"

To which I started answering, "I know. That's fine."

And he would kind of fizzle out.

It no longer carries the punch it once did and I no longer react to it.

So he never mentions it either way.

Just food for thought.

---(G)GGG

I know that routine Job. He has said so many times this last year that he thinks we would be better apart, yet has done nothing to make that happen. I have a feeling the same thing is going to happen with the moving out. We shall see. I don't know. Maybe I'm really dumb, maybe I am in complete denial, I just feel in my heart he doesn't want any of this any more than I do.

In the meantime, I need to pull myself back together and go back to my goals for myself. To sit back, be patient and observe. To try new things, work on 180's and watch for results with no expectations. Sounds so simple, right?

Since H is at home today, I checked with him to see if he would like me to pick up some lunch. He said yes. I took home some yummy food, we watched a funny show together, laughed and had a really good time before I headed back to work.

We really are in crazy land, aren't we???

You have a good attitude about the situation and I agree w/you...unless he's really pushed hard, he's not going anywhere any time soon.

You've got a good weekend coming up, enjoy the time away w/your friends and leave the mlc monster at home.

It's just the craziest experience I ever had and I know exactly what you are experiencing. LOL!

Keep up the good work!

Thanks Goatgal. You guys are right, it does not have the effect on me that it once did. I am actually pretty chipper today. Yesterday I was in tears at work, today I had lunch with H and am happier than ever. My coworkers think I have lost it.

For me, it's almost like a release when we talk. But yesterday was a good one. We both agreed we will be friends no matter what and sure, maybe it's best if he moves out for a while. He knows it's not what I want, that I would rather work on R, but his choice, and I am ok with that. I feel like he knows where I stand, the pressure is off, and I can now just be me. I don't know how to explain it, but it put me back into a good place.

mleigh4, I think that sometimes to be in denial is the best thing to do�

I agree with job, it doesn�t look like your H going anywhere anytime soon. Just enjoy all the good things that come our way, whether it is time with your H, your son, or your girlfriends. I have so much hope for you!

Thank you BrightFuture. I love the positive vibes! It really helps.

Had overall a great weekend! Friday night, H and I made dinner together. Yep, together. Have not done that in a long time, being in the kitchen moving around each other. Was really hard to not reach out physically a few times. Anyway, watched the Baseball game after dinner together and had a good night.

Saturday morning, my girlfriends picked me up for our weekend away. We had a blast! Went to Pebble Beach, found a beautiful 23 million dollar home we want to buy (lol), ate like pigs, went out dancing, had a lot of fun. One thing I noticed about myself. I was looking around, at the restaurants, walking, especially at the bars. Not only watching other couples, but looking for someone cute to make some eye contact with. WTH? My girlfriend noticed it too and pointed it out to me. Not like me at all, but then when we went dancing, I had the guy come up and tell me I was the cutest thing he ever saw. Ya right, I know these lines. So we were talking and he asked me if I was married or had a boyfriend. I was blank, I honestly didn't know how to answer that. I think (because I was into a few drinks by then) I stumbled out that I was married, but it was weird not knowing what to say. I have not been in that position yet, to be out and be hit on. In all reality, I would in no way have acted on anything, but it was nice to have someone actually show some interest in me.

Anyway, we had a great time. While I was away, H stayed home with S. They went to a hockey game on Saturday, then invited S's two friends over for a sleepover that night. Kudos to H! That is no easy task! H texted me a few times over the weekend and sent me some pics of him and S. It was really nice to hear from him like that.

I got home Sunday about 5 p.m. and H and I talked all about our weekend. H had his hockey game on the tv, so I went to the other tv to check the score of the baseball game and he told me to turn off the hockey game and we could watch the baseball game on his tv. That was a nice surprise and invite.

While H was folding his clothes from the dryer, I was reading S a story while he was in his bath. H brought up that I give him a hard time about all the clothes shopping he does, but pointed out how cheap he gets these clothes at Ross and showed me some of them. The thing is, I don't care that he shops for new clothes, I wonder WHO they are for because he doesn't wear them to go out with me!! But I didn't say anything back like that. I just smiled and said the prices are great for such nice stuff.

I talked just a little with girlfriends and only because they were asking and are very old and dear friends of mine who know me and H well. We came to the conclusion, it's not over until it's over. They completely support my standing and encourage me to put the suspicions and worries out of my head, and to focus on the good. This is my plan, until I fall off that wagon! One day at a time.

All I can say is this last week has been like having H back in so many ways. I don't if it is the result of talking with his family friend while hunting. I don't know if it was because he was off work and just super relaxed. I'm not sure. One thing I am sure of, he was enjoying my company, even inviting it. We got along great and were truly being friends. Can't ask for much more right now, so I will enjoy it.

I'm very glad to see that you had a nice time away w/your friends. I am also happy to see that your h spent time w/your son and even had a couple of kids over..that's not an easy thing to do, i.e., sleepover w/youngsters! LOL!

As for the clothes, try not to question the motive behind them and who he's wearing them for. He could very well have purchased them to hang out w/his younger buddies.

Take the time you spent w/your and cherish it because you just never know when he'll run back into his rabbit hole.

Keep up the good work!

Just updating on this week.

I am still in high PMA mode and things are still going smooth at home. H has come straight home from work every day. We have had fun watching the World Series together.

I have realized that my focus is very strongly on home. What I mean by that is that I am focusing on making home a happy, safe and calm place. Not just for H, for all 3 of us. I am making that effort to be upbeat, take care of things, make everything comfortable. It is working great for me, as it takes my focus off H and our R. It all comes in to play together, but in a different way.

I also am sensing a change in myself in regards to my connection with H. I can swear, something has changed between us. Our friendship feels genuine right now. I don't feel like I am walking on eggshells, I don't feel like I am watching every little thing I do. I am just being me and treating H with genuine love and respect. It feels good and I think the feeling is being reciprocated. I know, mindreading, but H seems more relaxed and more himself too. And again, I honestly feel a warmth and love towards H that I haven't felt for a long time. Especially since BD.

H has a bad work commute everyday. It takes him about 1 to 1 1/2 hours each way. Last night, he was really frustrated when he got home, showed me pics of the traffic. At one point, he said it drives him crazy because all he wants to do is get home. My thought -- Home as in us? Or just home as in his place to crash? I can hope. I used to do this commute, I know the feeling. After a little thought, I told him, "I hate that you have this commute, but if it helps, S and I are really happy when you come home safe and sound". Total 180 for me. Usually I would think, you can't control it so get over it. But that isn't how I feel. He just answered "I know".

So, I will keep doing what I am doing and going with how I feel. It keeps the peace at home. I don't know if H is still looking for a place to move, it hasn't come up. I will do my best to keep my mind where it is, it is working great for me and S. Home should be a place you want to be. I am doing everything I can to make sure it is that for ALL of us.

Hope everyone had a fun Halloween! S wanted to trick or treat with his best buddy that lives a few neighborhoods away from us. I picked up S and his buddies after work and brought them to my place to feed them dinner. We were eating when H got home from work. I wasn't expecting H to join us for much, but I invited him to sit down and eat with us. He actually grabbed a plate and did. Was expecting an excuse of something he needed to do. So we ate and H asked if he had time to change before heading to trick or treat. I asked, you're coming?? He quickly said do you want me to go because otherwise I can do some work orders. I told H that is totally up to him, but would probably mean a lot to S as he is only this age once. So, H actually came, a nice surprise. However, he did suggest driving separate for dumb reasons, and offered to run home to grab an umbrella once we got there. He didn't end up doing these things, but It's like he panics or feels trapped, more mind reading. Anyway, we had fun and he seemed very present, not distracted.

So then the turtle kicks in. As soon as we got home, he heads to the bathroom for a good 25 minutes. Then off to shower. Then While I was in back room, I came walking back in down hallway while H comes in from the garage with some bubble wrapped wood thing. He looked surprised at seeing me, mumbled something about being cold, took this thing straight into his room, put it in there, then came out and shut the door. This is a perfect example of when I think to myself, what is with him??? This is when I get those tingles that he is hiding something. And this is when I just am not sure if this is a man I can trust. You don't know how badly I want to go through that room!

Which brings me to a conversation I had with a good friend of mine. She has known H and I for 25 years. She is very grounded and level headed, has been through some very tough times in her life. We were talking about me and H. She does not think there is OW, but feels H does lie and hide things. Her theory is that H is very uncomfortable with confrontation. So he fibs, tells the half truth to avoid ticking me off about things he does. I have been thinking about this and she may be on to something. Here are some examples.

I have told H he is addicted to his stupid phone. I hate that phone, he gives it more attention then S and I combined. He says he likes to look things up, news and prices on things and pretty much anything and everything. So I have noticed H is on it less around us. However, he disappears into the bathroom or other ares in the house for long stretches. I assumed OW, but could be just hiding his time on the phone.....

Also with shopping. I have mentioned to H he has become a shopaholic, that he is buying things left and right. So I have noticed he doesn't mention going much anymore. However, I hear him carrying bags into his room and leaving them there. Also, I have noticed a couple times when he complains he is stuck in traffic, I will come across a receipt that actually put his traffic time in a store. Also, he came home with this cool cap with a built in light that I have been raving about because I want to go get one! H had said he got it while shopping after work at some stores by our house, which he told me about because he offered to pick up dinner. So I told him I was going to go there to get one. So, last night he wore it and it came up again that I was going to go get one, and he looked at me a little hesitant and said that actually, he got it at walmart earlier that day by somewhere he was working, not at the store I thought. The look on his face made me feel like a S talking to his mom. I just said ok, hopefully the walmart near us has them too. But again, why lie about where you got it from and when???

So it makes me wonder if these lies I keep sensing are just due to him thinking I will get mad at him. I do not like being viewed as a mother to him! He shouldn't feel he needs to hide things from me. I sense this and it makes things worse. Of course, I'm not completely sure this is all going on, but it makes much more sense to me then other things that have gone through my mind. I will just keep observing and see how it goes. H has always been a very private person, but this won't work for me.

Lots going on in this head of mine, but I am listening. I am doing really good at not reacting to emotions, just thinking and feeling. H is a different person. Not sure if it is MLC or if I just never noticed this before. I wonder if I could ever have the connection with him I so desire. I'm not sure he is capable of giving much more than he has over the years. I am different. I am proud of who I am becoming in this sitch. It takes an amazing person to stand by your M when being put through such trying times. We should all be proud of ourselves.

One last thing I have found very helpful. I have googled " how to save your marriage alone" and there are some very uplifting and encouraging articles out there. It is mostly what we preach here, but I find it helpful to read when feeling down.

So, boundaries.... Had a good weekend. H and I worked on a home kitchen project. Even went shopping all together. The MLC normal, right? Then tonight H says "Jose called and wants help working on his truck. I will call him and see what he wants. ". H goes into the garage, calls, then comes back up and says he is gonna go. Ok, all good and well, no worries here, except for going into the garage to call! I am sorry, I KNOW I am super paranoid and untrusting of this man. He knows this too. But dang it I am so sick of feeling this way. H brought this on, not me! So I asked, why do you have to go in the garage to call him? And here we go. I am laughing as I type this, but it's just so damn old. So so old.

The talking starts, the accusations. So H showed me his phone log, with his call to Jose. Then I see his email of home renters, he says because I think it best he moves out. So that set me off.

Me: I did not ask you to move out, let me make this very clear. I said if you don't want to work on our marriage, then I don't understand why you would want to live here.

Those were my exact words.HE had then answered then I guess I should move out. He denies all of this. I told him don't you dare turn moving out on me. I told him I don't want any of this, that I am fighting to save my marriage! Ugh blah blah blah. Then mediation came up and I told him to stop throwing threats and just do it if that is what he wants.

So because I am a very cut and dry person, I flat out asked, "are you saying you are not willing to work on our marriage?"

H: I don't understand what you mean by working on our marriage!? If that means counseling, I don't want to

Me: it just means trying....

H cut me off: I am trying!!

Then I think it went on to him sleeping in a different room, that he doesn't have romantic feelings for me, that just going to his friends sets me off.... So I explained that I have definite trust issues and his calling in the garage set me off. That I am sick of sneaky behavior and don't want to deal with it anymore.

So, what is my definition of working on our marriage? WTH do I want? I would say working on our friendship, taking it day by day and seeing if any romantic feelings come back before making any big decisions. Yet, that is exactly how it goes, but then I start feeling not sure if he is just playing Mr best friends divorce buddy or actually trying... Is this really enough for me? I feel really confused right now. I feel like a bug that is half squished and just want to be put out of my misery! I don't mean in a dead way, I mean just work on us or get out!

But I do see him making efforts, I really do. But these trust issues are killing me, and us. I want to leave him a note, to explain what " working on our marriage" means to me, since I never got that out. Do I bother? Will it be enough for me if I continue to have my trust issues? I am not sure what I really want sometimes. Like now. I am so tired of this limbo.

I had a letter all written, and I shredded it. I read it and feel like I am pleading a case for our marriage. I refuse to do that and don't like how that makes me feel. I'm over it. I can only be true to who I am. If it isn't enough for him, it's his problem and loss. Going to bed now.

Hi M,
I just want to say that all the MLCers "think" that they are or have "tried", no matter how it looks to us. My W has claimed over and over how she "tried" but to anyone else the things she says were attempts at "trying" were nothing of the sort! My W actually said that sleeping in the same bed with me (no touching or anything like that) was a huge attempt by her to save our M. It lasted about 10 days before she was back on the couch.

When I read your post about your last talk with your H one thing that I thought was that when you said to him that he either needs to work on the M or he should just leave and he was "happy" after the talk was this...he was happy because you just gave him an out for leaving. To you leaving would be a cop out, a giving up. To him it's an escape. I will also say your trust issues aren't helping. Do you really think he is having an affair? Do you really believe that there is an OW and if so what makes you think so? Because he is in an MLC he will do many odd things that seem strange to us. The wanting "privacy" like a teenager is a big one.

I'm glad you tore up the letter. It wouldn't have helped as your H isn't able to think like a normal person right now and to him it would just be more reasons not to stay. The difference between a "normal" D and D when one S is in MLC is that there really isn't any actual "reasons" that they want to end the M. One of the things that hurt me in my sitch is that the things that make my W think that she 'needs" to end our 21 year M make no sense what so ever. They are such small things that can be easily fixed if she were just willing to make any attempt. It isn't "normal" to want to end a 21 year M, break up a family, destroy a life because they don't have "romantic feelings" for the person they have been with for so long. Those feelings could easily come back if they were just willing to try. They can't try though because they aren't even able to cope with their own feelings, let alone think about how their actions are hurting someone else.

More than anything I think that if you are going to get through this, you need to get past the suspicions that there is OW. If you found out that there was I take it that would be a deal breaker for you? I understand the wanting more from your M and him, boy do I ever! But only you know when you have reached the point that you just can't take it anymore. It sounds to me like there is some hope that you can get through your H's MLC. You still do things together and seem at times to really enjoy each others company. That is a lot more than most of the LBS's here. It sounds to me it is the trust issue more than anything else that is in the way. If you can find a way to get past that I think it would go really far in helping "save" your M.

Thank you Matt and yes I agree, my trust issues are a huge problem for us. I'm not really sure what to do about it, it is getting better, I am working on it, but it still causes problems. He broke my trust, he needs to earn it back. In my darkest days, I never lied to him or hid things from him, it's not ok with me. And yes, an OW would be a deal breaker for me.

What bothers me about our talk last night is that he takes things I said and twists them to his benefit. MLC 101. I don't like that he said "we both agreed it best if I move out". He left out the most important part - that if he does not want to work on our marriage than why be here? But of course he turns it be a guilt free ticket to leave.

I thought I made it clear where I stand a couple of weeks ago. I know I may be talking to the wall, a rock, I don't know, but once again I need to make this clear! Not for H, not even for our marriage, but for ME. I am doing this with no expectations and the chance of making things worse. But when I look back, I NEED to know I did everything I could and i don't want any misunderstandings hanging over my head. Our communication is horrible, always has been, so this is what I wrote to H:

"When I ask that you talk with someone, I don't mean so much about us. I mean to have someone help you to sort our your feelings and offer some advise. I feel like you seem stuck in this one place and I can only speak from my own experience. I wish I had talked to someone when I was shut down. It would have helped me to not feel so alone and unloved, as I had felt for years. I finally figured it out on my own, but it took a really long time and left alot of damage behind. As far as working on our marriage, what I mean by that is taking things day by day. Working on being friends with an open mind and seeing where that could take us. Making changes in ourselves to be a better spouse. I don't believe in hopeless, especially when it comes to my family. That thinking is a cop out to me. Same with moving out. I did it to run and avoid facing what was happening, its a cowards way out which is why I came back to fight for what I believe in. What you decide to do is your choice and I won't stand in your way. I just felt I needed to clarify where I stand. Please do the same with me."

I did my best to not preach, not beg, I am just trying to get my point across where I stand and that I will not hand over a happy divorce/move out on a guilt free silver platter. I am ready for whatever happens, I just need something to happen and to know it is genuine. I see what seems to be H making efforts, then I wonder if it is for us, or himself? I get such mixed messages. All typical MLC behavior that drives me absolutely crazy. I spoke my peace, now I can sit back again.

Mleigh .... if anyone gets trust issues its me .. lets face it .. we are shaken up over all this .. MLC and no trust should jus tbe accepted. Whats the saying ... believe nothing he says and 50% of what he does .. I have dropped that 50% to about 25% honestly.

You can not start to trust him until he commits to fixing the M ... he is not there yet, he is still in the tunnels, When I just started viewing my lil MLC monster as a Zombie it helped ... let him stagger around and feed until there is a cure (This cure is his journey he must do alone) All we can do ... is just try to love them through it .. and that is soooo damn hard its not funny ... and between you and me there better be a medal, party, celebration giving me the key to the city after all this or I will be pissed ... lol

You are doing well .. we all backslide, we are human, we are loving spouses who want to FIX this ... but there is no quick fix, we must gather strength and know there is no smooth road, no secret .. we have a MLC script but every single sitch is different and has different traps and trick just to try to follow ... it can drive you mad. You are doing very well .. you said a little tidbit I think you can very well build on and let it help you detach .. making that home a good environment .. if not for him, for yourself and kids, this would be a harder thing to give up ya know ... even MLC'r walks from that and finds himself alone in an apartment? Who would want that for long .. being alone with your thoughts [censored] .. I can tell you this from experience!

Quote:

and between you and me there better be a medal, party, celebration giving me the key to the city after all this or I will be pissed ... lol

You create all that yourself, by doing the work....just sayin' .....

(psst....it's WAY better than any medal or party....)

Thanks Caliguy and TSquared2. I hope you guys are right about this all being worth it! Actually, I know it is, one way or the other.

This trust thing has been a big struggle for me this past year. Ok Caliguy, I will try looking at it like you said. I really can't trust him right now, and that is ok. I think trying to make myself do this may be part of the problem. I will try thinking of it that way and see if it helps.

H says he has found a place to move. Says it is nearby so he can stay close to S and take him to school on his days. H says this doesn't mean he isn't willing to work on things and that he promises to go to IC a couple times to see if it helps. I asked him, is moving out what you want to do? H says no, but this isn't working. I asked if it is a lease or month to month? H said its a year lease. I told him I can't guarantee I can make it through another separation. H said he knows there is no guarantee in any of this. H asked me, didn't you say you were happier when you moved out? I told him it was a break from the craziness, but I missed being in my home. H said well, he was at home, so It was different for him. I asked how soon? H said they want him to move in right away, but he didn't want to move so fast. I just said ok. I stayed very calm through the whole conversation.

That's it, I have nothing more to say. I need to just step back and let him go. Correct? I have spelled out how I feel, there is nothing more to do.

I have really mixed feelings. Part of me is sad and scared, of course. But part of me is relieved. This can go either way. Do we bother going over rules, such as dating? Why bother, right? I wouldn't believe him anyway. I guess I just let him go and see what happens now. Lovely, right before the holidays. I moved out exactly 1 year ago.

Let him go. He needs to travel the world of life to finally discover the man he needs to be. He needs to make his mistakes and learn from them and you can't be the one to fix him. He has to do this himself.

I wouldn't say one thing about dating, as both of you will again be separated. What he does w/his life will be his business and you will not need to check up on him or his activities. However, if he does something that affects the financials or your son, then that will be a different matter.

I suspect that even though he moves out, he'll be over quite a bit to visit w/your son. Make your home a safe haven for him. When you know he's coming over, bake up something that has a delicious smell to it, rearrange the furniture, change up the photos, etc., and make it your home for now.

I think you will find that once he's moved out, your anxiety and stress will be lifted off your shoulders a good bit.

Live your life to the fullest. Enjoy every moment you spend w/your son and allow the man upstairs to work on your h.

Ok job. I totally agree with you. I didn't sleep much. My thoughts are everywhere. I felt a real rush of anger at one point. So I will vent it here instead of at him. I am so disappointed in him. For baling on his family, his marriage, his commitments. For not telling me how much I was hurting him and what it was doing to him. For making me and S have to be separated again. And the dog who we are sharing custody of too. For being such a coward and not being a real man when times get tough. I thought he was so much more. For the example he is giving our S. I felt another door shut in me last night.

Then I had thoughts about the house. I can picture how I will redecorate. I even am thinking of having a holiday party with some close friends.

Also thinking of renting a room so I'm not so strapped. I have a male friend that has offered. We have known each other for 30 years and even dated at one point. But just good friends now. Not sure what H would think though. I don't really know anyone else but thinking.

I keep hearing him say "this doesn't mean I'm not willing to work on our marriage, but I found a place to move and I promise I will do IC". How twisted is that? How could a separation possibly mean working on our marriage?? It shows his complete spin on reality. I have waited over a year to hear those words, without the moving out part!

H hasn't mentioned financials, custody, furniture. I have no idea what I am in for. But my chin is up. I felt something big was coming, so I am prepared. Just letting it sink in and going about my day.

Another vent. H and I have become better friends these last few weeks than we have for a very long time. We have been hanging out and laughing, all together as a family. Meanwhile, he is sending in applications for homes. A move that threatens to rip apart our family. He shows such extreme passive aggressive behavior. Smiles at you as he stabs you in the back. I really hoped something was changing between us. I knew I couldn't trust his kindness. The kinder he is, the warier I will be.

Although he hasn't been whistling Dixie last night or this morning. Said he couldn't sleep. I am curious to see if this really plays out.

mleigh

Totally understand your frustration ... I often wonder where I would be without this forum .. in the past year I have read/learned so much about MLC ... but more important than that I have read and learned so much more about ME. None of us have a gaurentee of where this MLC ride will take us and our M, all we can do is work on us.

I know you do not want to have H move out, but letting him go will set him on his journey, look at it as something he must do, set him free but keep the light on. Reading your sitch he sounds like a good guy, just wrestling with a heavy dose of MLC, not his fault ..allow him to fight his battle and wrestle with his demons .... in the mean time ... find you, create the house you want, list goals ... who do YOU want to be in 1-5 years ... GAL, Detach, PMA ... fake it till ya make it.

Vent here ... let that happen .. we all get it. But show H that you are strong and a woman he would be an idiot to leave. I have a feeling ... dude gets alone with his thoughts in a strange apt. He will have to start addressing his issues either IC .. or long looks in the mirror ... either way .. at the least he starts walking through that MLC tunnel.

Quote:

"this doesn't mean I'm not willing to work on our marriage, but I found a place to move and I promise I will do IC"

Actually, this isn't as nonsensical as it appears, imo.

IF he works on himself, he is working on 50% of the M...

Hi mleigh,
While my W was out looking for a place to move to AND filling out applications, she was nicer than she had been in ages! It's a pressure relief for them IMO. I think that now that they have made up their mind to DO something they feel less pressure and actually get nicer. I don't think it's "passive-aggressive", I think they really do feel less pressured so are better able to be "friendly". Remember, they don't think "normally" they think in an MLC way. Where you would think that being closer and having actual "fun" with the S would make them rethink what they are doing, that's not how they are thinking. You H like my W and darings H seem to have the same mind set where they feel they "MUST" move out. In my and darings case they feel they "must" D to stop the "bad feelings". He truly doesn't think at all about how this is hurting you and if he does he doesn't really care as this is something that he has to do.

I get the "door closing" you talked about. I really didn't think my W would actually leave in the end, let alone file for D. My oldest D19 has said that she remembers all her life how her mother would tell her that you should never get a D. That M meant you try everything you can to make things work. She can't understand how her mom did this, let alone seem to think that everyone should just be happy for her and just accept things. The example she is setting for her D19 and D14 is one of just giving up without a thought to how her actions affect anyone else. She has acted like a child in front of them. Not someone I can be proud of calling my S!

Part of MLC is the becoming a totally different person. Doing things that in the past they never would have done. I would expect that in the beginning your H will seem happier. While he gets his "new" place together, thinks he has "finally" gotten what he has needed, away from you. I saw this from my W. But as this newness wears off, things will change. It won't happen all at once. He will go up and down but after awhile all he will have is himself and no one to blame for his feelings. Whether this makes him start to rethink things depends totally on how far he has come in his MLC journey. All you can do is keep GALing, become the person YOU want to be with or without him. Stay strong!

Thank you guys for your support. In talking with my IC today, I realize that I am actually a little proud of H for taking this step. At least it's finally a decision after over a year of indecision. Not exactly the road I wanted to take, but at least he is making a move.

I also am realizing while talking things out with IC that there are many many things that have brought us to this point. Many things about our R and our personalities, things that have made me unhappy for a long time. I still get the feeling my IC is encouraging me to move on. I asked him, do you support marriage?? He said he has been married for 36 years. But he explained that he does not believe in staying in a loveless marriage. But that is for me to decide on.

I left with high PMA, chin up and we decided this is ME time. I have been preparing for this and I think I'm ready.

Caliguy - I agree. Don't know what I would do without this place. I think I need to read up again on MLC. It's been awhile and it may help me to stay patient right now. I am feeling almost free, like the pressure of what to do is off me. H finally made the choice. I want to stay compassionate and loving for him with the door open like you said, but I need some refresher courses on MLC.

Tsquared2 - you are absolutely right. It's better then what I have gotten for the last year.

Matt - I keep up on your sitch and my heart breaks for your family. Yes, the niceness is very strange, almost creepy. But a refresher in MLC might help me to understand that. I remember when I decided to move out last year, my H was the same. Really happy and humming. He went out to a Bday dinner after helping me move stuff, then had them all back to our 1/2 empty house after. I was so hurt. I know this isn't about me, I try to remember that, but it still hurts.

I have lots on my agenda. Vacations to plan, house to decorate, holiday parties. We are going to share our dog, she will stay with S where he goes, so I am thinking of getting another dog so I am not alone on those nights! I have been having this feeling that something good is on the horizon for me. I'm not sure what is going to come of this, but I feel excited about the possibilities. At least right now - let's see how I feel tomorrow and each passing day!

Last night remained a calm and high PMA night. H came home after work and continued to work on our kitchen cabinet project we are doing. We talked about S homework and how well he is doing in school. I got a call from S teacher yesterday to tell me S is getting an award on Friday not just for his academic success, but also for respectfulness and kindness. She said he is so sweet and so caring to his classmates. We are so so proud of S.

H says he feels like he is coming down with something, not feeling good. We all had dinner together and nice conversation. Then for the 2nd night in a row, H said he is going to bed early to work on his work orders and fall asleep. We said goodnight. A lot of big sighs from H and alot of humming (his stress coping mechanism) At one point in the kitchen, when H was washing dishes and he let out a big sigh, I almost wrapped my arms around him from behind, like I always used to do. I'm not sure why I didn't, not sure what stopped me, but next time I will just do it. Just a hug to let him know I still care and am still here. I'm amazed I even have that urge.

No talk of moving, when, money or anything. He must be surprised that I don't have a whole spreadsheet set up. I am a money and number nut and work up budgets for us all the time. When I moved out, I had it all figured out. This time, I am not saying a peep and not lifting a finger. He needs to figure it all out on his own.

My goals for today:

Continue to stay out of H way.
Keep up PMA high.
No mention of or questions about moving.
Make nice dinner (I can make a mean tri tip)
Keep home safe, calm and loving

Tonight H asked if I wanted to talk about him moving out. So we got S set up to watch some Spongebob and went to the other room. H started by saying he hasn't made any decision on what to do and wanted to know how I felt. I can't remember everything I said but I basically told him that I don't want him to move, that I would love to figure out a way to make our living situation work. I told him BUT, I want you to do what feels right. If you need to do this, you should and I won't stand in your way. H said this isn't fair to me either way, but he thinks by moving out, it will make him face reality and show him how it would be. He said it might help him realize he wants to be here. He said it would give us both time to think. H said it would be different than when I moved out because he wasn't comfortable at my apt so he didn't spend time there. But he said he would spend a lot of time here with S because he knows he will want to be here more. That he would come hang out here. We both talked about how scared we are. He brought up a little about the unhappiness in our marriage and I started to get a little defensive, but I caught myself. I told him this experience has been rough, but that I have learned so much about myself and our marriage and how we got here, that I don't think I would change it if I could. I told him I am finding myself again and have changed so much inside. I told him I want him to use this time for HIM. I said don't worry about hurting me or feeling guilty. I said use this time to figure things out just for him. He told me he will do IC and I thanked him for offering to do that, that it meant a lot to me. There were other things, but all done very calm and very loving. We finished with a big long hug. I told him I love him so much, as my husband and as my friend. He told me he loved me too. The first time in a year I have heard those words. I looked him in the eye and told him that I hope everything works out for him.

A little later, he told me that if this happens, it won't be until December 1st. I said oh good, then you will be here for Thanksgiving? He said yes, he told them he couldn't move before then. So I said, do a prime rib for Tday? He smiled big and said Yes!

I am so dang proud of myself, how we are handling this. I feel really good. Scared, but good. I am pretty sure he will go, and I am ok with that.

You handled yourself and the conversation very well. At least he knows that you aren't angry and ready to open the door and shove him out. He's got some time to think about things and I'm glad he's going to be there for Thanksgiving.

BTW, you may find that now that you've had this discussion, the tension in your home will ease up. He will become more attentive and happier. Some of the MLCers tend to become the happy people once again when they know that they are moving out and you are on board w/it. I'll be curious to see if he reacts the same way as others have.

Thanks for your praise Job

. Ya, I can't explain it, I am on some kind of high right now, this all feels right and necessary. And not my battle to fight.

Thinking of other things said. H had said he hasn't been sleeping because he is so unsure of what to do. I assured him to do what feels right to him, what you think would be best for you. I told him, don't stay here out of duty or guilt. That won't help anything between us and could actually cause more damage. I told Him I would only want you home if it was really what you wanted. And I would only want you to be with me, if it is what you want. I told him I deserve no less than that. H said I deserve much better than all of this. He said he feels so bad living here, sleeping in the spare room, having me cook for him every night... I told him I love cooking for him. He said he knows, but it isn't right this way.

I did admit at one point that I'm not so sure this will help us, that I see things getting worse. H says it a one year lease and temporary. At the end, he says he will know what to do. H kept telling me he hopes this helps him to realize what he has, he hopes he will miss home and want to come back. I told him the door is open, it's his choice. He told me, don't be so sure of that. He said my feelings may change and I might realize I am happier without him. I told him we don't know what is going to happen. That is when we both admitted to being scared.

It was a great talk I think. I am ready to lovingly let him go. Mostly thanks to all of you on here. I am in such a different place than 1 year ago. Can I stand for another year? I am thinking, with the love I feel for H, yes. But it will be one day at a time and living life in between. I am ready for my new journey. Thank you guys so much for helping me get here.

mleigh

Good for you ... you handled that about as good as I think anyone could. It is his choice, he must make the journey and you have left it to him to safely do so. It will not be easy .... and who knows where it goes from here ... but atleast you are not fanning the flame ... very impressive!!

Just an update, not much to post. I am still very in tune with myself and how things are changing inside. I still am very much liking what I see in my mirror. I am still in very high PMA.

In reading a post from t2sqared on Caliguys thread, pretty much sums up where I am at. I totally accept H needs to move out. I don't feel anger or sadness about it, not sure if that will change but I am going with it right now. I have laid down my sword, shut myself up, and support him on his journey. I picture myself still with him, but off to the side. When I look at him, I look at a friend. We are not emotionally H and W right now, I accept that. I truly have no expectations from H right now. It all feels really good. I am not obsessing on him or our sitch, I have let it all go.

I am so grateful that H has not made any rash decisions to leave(before when I would not have been ready) or D. This has been just as long and hard of a struggle for him, and he has taken it slow and has tried to do things best as he could. I finally see that and appreciate him for that. I appreciate he is taking this next year to work things through instead of setting up D like he has said. I appreciate that he is working on his relationship with S, I can see it. I accept H needs to work on himself before we can ever possibly began our R. It's so clear to me now. And for all of that, I have lovingly let him go.

Mind reading here, but I get the feeling H senses this change in me. I hope he knows it's genuine, but time will prove that. Sometimes I almost feel guilty that I am feeling so good at a time when I should be a little sadder? I feel little ripples of excitement when I think about having the house to myself, getting another pet, having free nights again to go out with friends....

H hasn't gone out with his friends in well over a month. Did he realize partying and sleeping on people's couches wasn't the answer to his happiness? I guess, in going through my own journey of blaming my unhappiness on H, then realizing it wasn't about him but was about me, I am hoping that he will get the same clarity. I believe his moving out will help greatly with that which could explain the excitement I feel. I also know without a doubt this will continue to bring us closer as friends. So, who knows what will happen from there?

Making plans for S's annual legoland/Disneyland trip in February. This last time just S and I went and had a blast. Another thing I have noticed about myself. All the plans I make do not include H and I am ok with that. It's automatic now, I have gotten so used to it. Then, it becomes a nice surprise if he tags along. Totally up to him! Anyway, still lots of thinking in my head, but it's all about ME.

I am in the mood to have some good food and wine with friends this weekend. I think I will see what they have planned! S is off school Monday and Tuesday, so I took days off too and looking forward to 4 day weekend!

Sounds like you have some wonderful plans for your long weekend! Good for you for taking that time for YOU:).

IMO, I believe they can and do sense when we make changes and our thinking shifts. I have zero explanation about why this seems to happen... Just my own observations and experience.

As far as feeling guilty for not feeling sadder...I can so relate.

You feel what you feel. Give yourself permission to do that. Try not to judge yourself on those feelings, thinking you should feel differently.

You seem to be doing so great, mleigh. You're giving him tons of space, and whatever happens happens, and your life doesn't stop because of it. Right on, girl.

Ok calling all vets! Actually anyone, just looking for some insight.

H has approached me for the 3rd time asking me how I really feel about him moving out. I didn't realize, he still hasn't decided or taken this place. I haven't asked anything about it, letting him fully take the lead on this one. 180 for me.

Anyway, I told him this is not my decision to make. He said he knows, but he just wants to know how I feel about it, that he is scared and still not sure what to do.

So, I told him again, if to move feels right to him, then he should do it. I told him I am not angry and that I will fully support him in this. I said if he needs this break and time, that he should take it.

H: I am just thinking and thinking and don't want to make a rush decision.

Me: and I appreciate that. In fact, I appreciate you not making any rush decisions about any of this. You could have filed for D by now or completely left us, but you haven't and I appreciate that and am actually learning from that (I can be emotionally impulsive)

H: I just think maybe this time away can help me figure things out. I don't want you to think I am doing this to get away from you.

Me: I don't feel that way, I know this is just to have the space to figure things out. ( I wanted to say, I know this isn't about me!)

H: But I don't want to move then realize I shouldn't have or be wishing I hadn't.

Me: yes, your moving can go either way. But know this will still be your home. That door is open to you, don't feel like you wouldn't be welcome.

H: I have a feeling I would still be around a lot.

Me: and that is fine. I am at a place where time is ok. We have time on our side and I also don't want to rush into anything. I just want to live my life right now. I am not looking for anything or even expecting anything from you. The pressure is off, this is your time. I truly want you to do what feels right for you.

I also told him that I support his decision either way. That if he decides he is not ready to move, that we can try to figure out a way to make living together work and to let me know what I can do to help. I told him that I love our friendship right now. We talked financials, and it looks like I can do this without renting out a room.

H says he is trying to meet up with the owner today because the fence needs repair, the bathroom should be repainted, and he would like this done before he would agree to take it. He assured me he has not signed anything yet.

Ok -- questions!!?? Is he making excuses to not go? I mean, painting the bathroom!!?? This place is a good deal and he is risking losing it. Am I making this all way to easy for him? Is it wrong of me to let him know this home would still be open to him? And that I would still be here? What is he so scared of? Is he wanting me to tell him not to go?

I know we don't know what is going on in his mind, but I am curious what you guys think. It just seems to be a whole lot of stalling. Honestly, I think he should take this place. But I won't tell him that because I want it to be his decision.

I think your h wants you to tell him what to do. He doesn't want to make the final decision to go and yet, he knows that the only way he's going to find himself is to do so. I'd continue to sit back and watch this unfold. Continue to put the ball in his court and eventually he will make a decision.

Quite frankly, he doesn't want to leave because it's comfortable where he is at and he knows that he's going to have to take care of himself if he goes. He's scared, but only he can make the decision to go or stay.

Continue moving forward. This is one decision that only he can make.

BTW, I'm not surprised he's not made a final decision. Some tend to waffle until you actually tell them to go. Mine sat there waffling w/threats of moving until I had had enough and shoved him out the door. Do I regret doing it? No...because the tension and stress in my home was at an all time high and once he was gone, things settled down for me. But that was my decision on how to handle the waffling, i.e., long before I joined the board.

I agree with ^^^ job. Your H is lost in his thick fog and wants you to make the choice for him ... and he may be testing you a bit to see if you have changed in this way .. you being "ok" with him moving out is probably really confusing him ya know? Its like a kid ... "Can I go play in traffic?... Wait ... WHAT? you said OK?".

I would almost brace for a little fight ... something to justify him leaving ... he is most likely wrestling with this .. so a nice justification fight would be in order ... atleast that's how my MLC'r makes the hard choices.

I agree, and yes, it may come down to him nitpicking you about something and using the argument as the excuse to leave. You've come a long way in a short amount of time. Continue as you have been. Don't allow him to rattle you about anything.

I agree. He wants you to tell what to do.

Thanks guys. Ya, I also was thinking the same. He must be really confused that I am ok with this. And since things have been so well at home, we are getting along so well, that things don't really justify him leaving. Not to mention his fear of looking like "the bad guy". His words.

Funny thing is, I really am ok with it! Almost looking forward to it. Kinda really looking forward to it.... Our Sitch isn't consuming me lately, my own happiness is! Feels good, I hope it lasts.

Your h is confused and quite frankly, he just doesn't know what to make of you. You aren't begging, pleading or crying over his decision to move and that throw him.

You are going to be just fine whether he moves or not.

Keep up the good work!

H pulled me aside last night when he got home from work to tell me he met with the owner at the house he was looking at and decided not to take it. Something about the wiring in the house and that he got a bad vibe. I just said ok, good to follow your gut.

I have mixed feelings, but proud of him for actually making a decision on his own! So life goes on.

I so love this time of year. I am a holiday nut. Last year it was a really painful time for me. This year, I am ready to enjoy. It's all I can do to keep from pulling out the Christmas decorations!

Your h is my xh's twin. When my xh went looking for another place, he had some excuses such as the place didn't have Anderson windows or the intercom in the house didn't work, or it didn't have carpeting except in the bedrooms. This went on for a week or so and when started talking about leaving after Christmas, I slept on his comments and the next day, I opened the cage door and helped him make the decision to go now and not wait. If I hadn't done this, he would still be living at home and talking about leaving every ten minutes. The stress and tension were too high and I had had enough of his crazy behavior by this point. I hope your h doesn't follow in the same foot steps. LOL!

It'd never too early to decorate. I saw a house the week before Halloween that had the trees and eaves already decorated and lit up in the red, green and white bulbs. I'm sure you and your son will have a wonderful holiday season. Has he said what he would like for Christmas?

Lol Job. I would love to learn more of your story, I only know bits and pieces. I guess I am lucky that we are living in harmony at the moment. But yes, if it kept taking me to a point that was too much for me and S, I wouldn't hesitate to give him that push. Things have been pretty uneventful and calm, but I know that can change at any moment and am prepared for it and stay on guard

S is asking for an xbox 360 from Santa. We are not pleased as he is addicted to games, Minecraft in particular. We don't want to encourage it by getting a new game system so I'm not sure what we are going to do! Santa is going to disappoint for the first time ever! Someone suggested having him come up with a few different ideas for Santa, that way it's not like Santa ignored his request.

As for me, I want gift cards for my favorite massage place! Boy do I deserve some pampering.

How about everyone else? Any special Christmas wishes? What do you want Job?

ughhhh That Mine craft .. and video games in general. I really limit this at my place .. but its out of my hands when he is with W, we have had delicate talks about this as the MLC'r hates to be called out on anything ... I just suggest he read or something more constructive as I think the video games increase them acting out ... S is a very good grounded kid, thankfully he likes to read, but would prefer the gaming!@

I think I would ask your son to come up w/a few additional ideas so that Santa will have some other things to work on as well. My nephew was into the xbox and all of those games for about 2 years and now he doesn't touch them at all. He's moved on to playing in a band made up of 3 or 4 other young men in his class on Wednesday evenings.

What do I want for Christmas? I haven't given it much thought. Probably to remain healthy and find something to smile about each day.

Wow. It's been a long time since I have posted. I lurk and follow up on other's threads though.

I continue to give H space. It just comes natural to me now. I realize I go through my days barely thinking of H or sitch. What an amazing emotional freedom after the last year of pure obsession on my part! H has been home consistently. He keeps himself busy on home projects and I mean busy!! He never just sits and rests. I told him I notice how much he enjoys keeping busy on the house and appreciate the things he is getting done. H said yes, he does enjoy it, said it keeps his mind busy.

S and I stay out of his way and continue to do our thing. I never expect H to join us on outings, in fact last weekend I went to my family get together and did not invite H. I decided I wanted to relax and enjoy myself, and would more without H there. Yes, it was all about ME. I also didn't want to give my family any false hopes but I did let them know that H not being there was MY choice. Honestly, H most likely preferred it that way. He has never been a fan of our loud Sicilian gatherings!

One thing did happen to me that day however. As I was getting ready, I started having panic attacks about leaving town for the day and leaving H behind at home. I was worried he would have "someone" over while we were away, like when we went camping last month. So, I let him know how I was feeling. We both stayed calm and talked it out. H said he doesn't want me to have panic attacks or to feel that way. I explained that most of my fears come from him not sharing his time away from us. I said just sharing things helps me to see the truth instead of making things up in my head. (I know, this is MY issue, but a huge reason for my disconnect with H in the first place. And yes damn it, I want a marriage where we talk about our days and funny things that happened or things we saw.... This is how I connect.). So H right away explained how it came about having his buddy over while we were away and went on to explain that he does invite some of the new friends over but that they don't feel comfortable coming because of knowing what we are going through. Hmmm is he projecting his own feelings? I think so. So, I told him thank you for talking that out with me, that I appreciate it and that I felt much better.

Other than that talk, every day goes on very peaceful and calm at home. We continue to live together as good friends. No touches or affection at all. For now, I am able to accept this. I really don't think much about it. The day to day life keeps us busy. I really do love H and when I look at him, I don't see my husband. I see a really good friend who is trying to figure some things out and needs some time and space to do that. Considering how comfortable we all are at home together, I am ok with that.

H does heating/ air conditioning for a living and went today to help out a work friend on his boat to fix some non working air conditioners. It's a large boat his friend and wife just bought. Must be nice! Anyway, H TM that he will be staying there for dinner, he shared what they had done so far today on the boat and sent pics to share with S and I. I see this as, he listened and heard me

. Not sure if he is doing that as a friend or potential reconciled future H, but whatever he means, it makes me happy

The journey continues. I truly believe anything is possible. I have learned to love unconditionally. It came easy for me with S, but is completely different with H. I have learned patience, compassion and respect. I have learned how strong I am and continue to learn my strengths and weaknesses. This journey continues to be an amazing experience for me.

I want to add to post above. When I do think about sitch there is a lot going on in my mind. I really don't know if I can trust H again or truly forgive H enough to feel more than a friendship for him. I do still get angry that he feels the way he does. That he has changed the dynamic s of our family, our marriage and our home. I get angry that he is so lost and confused about what he wants. When I see a man look at his wife, with adoration and love, I get angry that I lost that. I miss loving someone and being loved back. I wonder, could we reconcile? Do I want to? I am really not so sure sometimes. I am over worrying what H thinks, feels and wants. What about me? I want a man who values and cherishes his family. Who would do anything to protect us. Can H ever be that man? Or will he continue to put his own needs first. Are my expectations too high or unrealistic? I continue to look inside myself. I wonder sometimes if I look to H for too much. My father was never a part of my life, do I look for H to replace that?

Just thinking out loud. There is a lot of soul searching going on with me. Yes I accept today with the uncertainty of my future with H. I. Can live with it for now. But I wonder when I will get to that point of needing more and better. I wonder if those feelings will change as I continue to work on myself. The good thing is that I have learned to not act on these feelings. I just feel and think and feel some more. Just taking it all in.

Hi, mleigh,

It's great what you wrote, that you accept today with the uncertainty of your future with H.

Such a nice feeling to not have to decide anything today, and just keep living your life. Isn't it?

(((((Hugs))))))

Originally Posted By: mleigh4

I do still get angry that he feels the way he does. That he has changed the dynamic s of our family, our marriage and our home. I get angry that he is so lost and confused about what he wants. When I see a man look at his wife, with adoration and love, I get angry that I lost that. I miss loving someone and being loved back. I wonder, could we reconcile? Do I want to? I am really not so sure sometimes. I am over worrying what H thinks, feels and wants. What about me? I want a man who values and cherishes his family. Who would do anything to protect us. Can H ever be that man? Or will he continue to put his own needs first. Are my expectations too high or unrealistic? I continue to look inside myself.

^^^^^^^- Exactly where I'm at! I have moments where I don't even think about the sitch, and then moments where the above quote is swirling in my head.

Maybe it's timing- my BD was a month after yours and H moved out 2 weeks later. Maybe we are hitting the point where we heal a little bit and remember that we matter too.

Shining - Yes! It feels fantastic to just live. This situation will not effect my happiness. I won't let it. I just want to live my life and enjoy. I have great family and friends who love me, a S who adores me, not to mention I love myself and the person I continue to become. It feels liberating and I feel so independant again. It's been a long time. Hugs back!!

Daring - I have those moments too where I just get so annoyed with the whole thing. But I remind myself that I can break this cycle at any time, I do have control of that. I see myself getting closer to that point, where I want love and romance in my life again. Of course, I would love that to be with H, but if not, I am also ok with that. I have days where I just wish he would leave and go figure himself out somewhere else, you know? Who needs this? But then I remind myself that he really is going through something and he is not doing this on purpose. He just has no direction and needs to figure that out. It must feel horrible, to be in his shoes. H isn't a mean or bad person by nature, so I am sure he is not proud of what he is doing to our family and home. I love him, so I will continue to be patient and continue to love him. It's all I can do for now.

Vent time. Most days go well, then I have days like today where I just feel down.

I have been fighting a cold for a week, but continue to take care of S, homework, baths, dinner, pets, etc. not ONCE has H asked how I feel.

Most days I ask H how his day at work was. I either get a good answer or sometimes just a grunt. But I can't remember the last time he asked me.

Tonight when he came home from work, he barely said 2 words to us. The withdrawn self centeredness of it all just gets to me so much sometimes. I just get really lonely. I love my alone time, no problem there. It's being with someone, day to day, who continues to be here, but is not HERE.

On a happier note, we got a kitten last week. My friend works at a vet office and kitty was found starving and needed a home. We have totally fallen in love with each other! She follows me around, snuggles with me at night. I just love her. My main reason was to have a companion if and when H moves out. We want S and our lab together, so I just didn't want to be all alone.

Since H decided to not take the last place he found to rent, he hasn't said a word about moving. I am not sure if he is still looking. I have many moments when I hope he is! I'm torn if living together while he finds himself works for me. I have very mixed feelings about that!

Anyway, I feel better just getting that off my chest. These days, that get me down, remind me of how lonely I really am and how much I miss the simple things, like a kiss hello or goodbye. Like a hug for no reason. Just the feeling of being cared about. This [censored]

I'm sorry you've not been feeling well and I do hope you are up and about very soon. When we aren't feeling well, everything becomes a huge effort and it sounds like that's what has happened for you. It's okay to feel down, you are entitled to feel this way. Your h's empathy chip is broken and he's off in another world of fantasy and being a teenager w/no responsibilities.

You got a kitten? That little girl is so lucky to have someone like you to love her. What did you name her? She will love you unconditionally and always be there for a snuggle. I'm very happy you opted to take her in. I have two cats and both were found, rescued and I took them. I've never regretted it.

Continue to come here to vent. I know it's difficult to have him living in the house and I would venture to say he's not looking for another place to live right now.

I do hope you and your family have a nice Thanksgiving. Please take care of yourself.

I think you are right Job. I haven't missed any work and keep pushing myself to run like normal so I feel pretty run down. We are closing early today, so I plan on coming home and resting up for tomorrow! And after all my venting, H asks this morning, are you feeling ok? Lol.

Kitties name according to S is mittens. I call her Mitzi. I had to put my last cat down last year, I had her for 17 years. It's funny, this kitten looks a lot like my last

. I am enjoying her so much. Her and the dog are still warming up to each other.

I wish everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Try to get a little rest, i.e., pamper yourself just a wee bit. I hope you feel better soon.

Love the name of kitty. She's going to win those dogs over in no time.

Happy Thanksgiving!

"One day she finally grasped that unexpected things were always going to happen in life. And with that she realized the only control she had was how she chose to handle them. So she made the decision to survive using courage, humor and grace. She was the queen of her own life and the choice was hers."

Does that describe us well or what? We are survivors

All still going well here. We had a wonderful wonderful Thanksgiving. Even though I was still feeling a little under the weather, I didn't let it effect our day. I cooked quite the spread... Prime Rib, Turkey breast and mashed potatoes. My mom came over and brought the green bean casserole and rolls along with desserts. We started the meal by all taking a turn to say something we were thankful for. My S started by saying he was thankful for his family. My mom agreed and said the same. I was thankful for us all being together in good health. And H was thankful that I prepared such a delicious meal. lol. I just have to laugh. I was hoping for something a little more meaningful, but good food has always been important to H!

So we spent the entire Thanksgiving weekend eating and napping. I don't think we even left the house, S stayed in jammies for 4 days! It was very relaxed. H commented that he really enjoyed having those extra days off work to eat and sleep, then eat and sleep more. H said it just doesn't get any better than that.

So, each day goes by. H and I continue to get along so well and I continue to make our home a home. Still no affection of any kind, just a good friendship. I actually have been reflecting on the fact that I feel such a warmness towards H, considering all that has happened in the last year. I guess that is true unconditional love, huh? I really didn't know I had that in me and think about it a lot.

I don't see any sign of H looking for a place to move out. I have a feeling that not taking the place he found was also a decision he made to not move out after all. I almost sensed a relief and happiness in him after all that. Like he actually made a decision on his own based on what felt right to him. Mindreading, I know, but I think it was some kind of step for him.

H has mentioned some long term things, like getting smoke detectors for the house with 10 year batteries so we don't need to change them every year. And buying a large cover for our boat when we have it at our house this summer. Sounds like we are staying the course? I take these conversations with a grain of salt, as I know things can change in an instant.

So, I can continue with our friendship for now, but at some point, something needs to change. So here comes my questions. Once the holidays are over, real day to day life returns. I plan on inviting him on our annual birthday trip for my S to legoland and Disneyland in February. Should I also start trying some physical touches or hugs? Something to initiate movement? Or do I take the things that seem to happening with H in stride and let things fall into place as they may? It seems there is a lot of thinking going on with him, based on things he says and does. Just nothing physical or verbal in ways of affection. What do you guys think? Give it more time? See what happens over the holidays I guess?

Your Thanksgiving went very well. Sounds like everyone had a great time. How is the kitten doing? Is she spoiled rotten yet?

I would invite him on the trip to Lego Land and see how it goes, but keep your expectations very low as he may opt not to go.

Friendship is the first step to any relationship and it sounds like he's comfortable w/that step thus far. Don't rush the process because you are frustration/anxious for more. If you push too hard, he will take several steps back. Dig deeper for patience.

Keep in mind that your h is not ready to take the next step from friendship back into the relationship. He's still got some growing to do...but if you want to try a few touches here and there, that should be okay...but I don't think I'd try hugs just yet. Try touching his arm or his hand while decorating the tree or doing something that involves the both of you. If he cringes or distances himself after you have touched him, then I would suggest waiting a bit and try it again. Don't expect him to warm up to these quickly. He needs to feel safe and know that you aren't trying to manipulate him into a "relationship" right now.

Listen to what he has to say, don't question his comments about the smoke detectors. If you listen closely, you may be able to figure out what's on his mind.

Dig deeper for patience because the process is a slow one for reconnection. You can't rush it.

Hi Job. Thank you for the advise. Our friendship is going well right now so I wouldn't want to mess that up. In all reality, I myself haven't made any decision, I'm not even sure we can reconcile to be more than friends. I just am eager to try

As far as our annual Bday trip for S, I will invite him, but only because it's the right thing to do. S and I had the best trip so far last year, with just us 2. I am totally fine doing it just like that again. It was much more laid back and relaxing, for whatever reason. S had told me he wanted to do the exact same trip next year. Not sure if he meant just the 2 of us again? But it's only right to invite H.

Also I have planned our annual Xmas trip to eat at a favorite restaurant and walk around Christmas in the Park. I planned it with S. Myself and some good friends. Again, I will invite H but totally ok if he doesn't go.

So I am not so sure where my own feelings stand with H. I am so over the drama and weirdness of his MLC. I still catch myself rolling my eyes at his behavior sometimes but am able to just go with the flow for now. I love life and want to enjoy it, and intend to do just that, with or without him.

Kitten is doing great! Very loved and spoiled. She is very loving and gets along great even with our lab. They actually play hide and seek together. However, kitties has not taken to H. She won't let him get near her, runs away. She doesn't do this with me, S or the dog. H gets frustrated and annoyed about it. He has never had a cat and is definitely not a cat person. Any ideas to help them to get along??? I have had him feed her and hold her by him, but she gets uncomfortable around him. Hhmmmm. Don't cats sense evil? I made that comment to H, joking of course, but he didn't laugh

Animals can sense when something isn't quite right w/people. I would encourage your h to play w/her. Get one of those toys that has a stick, string and feathers on the end. They do love those. My cats love them a lot. It takes a pet a while to warm up to someone they sense doesn't like them or is nervous around them.

I think you are handling your situation quite well.

So I let out a little spew last night. Well, not really a spew, I stay calm, just a need to get something off my chest.

My H spends a lot of time at home now. But the majority of the time is doing odd ball projects and stuff around the house. Now, I am glad he is home and not out who knows where. So my issue is that he gets so caught up in these projects, that he doesn't help with S or anything in our day to day home life. Like dinner, homework, etc. I find myself enjoying a cold glass of wine by myself while H is scrambling around. My issue #2 is that he stays up all hours doing this stuff, even on week nights. This continues to bring in my mind, is he on something??? For example, the other night he spent 2 hours at Costco, then came home, whooped down the plate of food I saved for him, then went about doing stuff. Putting liquid plumber down all the pipes, filling up the hand soap containers, and this is at 10:00 at night while I am getting S to sleep and H had mentioned he had a 6:30 meeting in the morning. I fell asleep so I'm not sure how late he was up.

The next night I had a hair appt and got home at 7. H had gotten himself and S fast food, didn't ask me if I wanted anything. No homework done. As soon as I got home, off he went to the garage to spend 2 hours fixing his Ipad stand in his work van. I was a bit annoyed abbut the dinner sitch and just told him to let me know if I am on my own for dinner, that I would have gotten myself something while I was out. H apologized, offer to make me something and said that wasn't nice of him considering I handle dinner for us every night.

So, last night, night 3 of all this, again H comes home from work and starts fixing a shelf in our laundry room without even changing out of his work clothes. Just straight to it. Then grabs some new smoke detectors to try and do before dinner. So I ask H, please tell me the secret, where you get this energy? I said you get no sleep but work nonstop when home. H says I don't know. So I asked, are you on something? He said no. I asked energy drinks or something? H said sometimes. He said he just keeps busy to keep his mind busy. I said, busy from what? Facing our situation? I said if you are trying to escape the reality of our life, then why are you here? He said fine, I will stop fixing things. I said no, that's not what I mean. I appreciate the stuff you do. My problem is that you get so caught up in it, that you lose track of time and don't help out with S. He said ok, he will help more, which he did last night.

Ugh, I don't know. I get to these points where my gripes sound so dumb to me, but at the same time, I am not ok with enabling his complete lack of being a husband or a father while living in this house. It's not ok. I am sorry he is lost right now and trying to figure himself out. I would love to be the saint wife that let's him do so with no problem, and I mostly am, but some days..... I just can't take it!

This energy and sooper-dooper getting things done sounds like times when my stbxw was in an anxiety cycle. Usually it would be followed by a deep depression and complete lethargy.

TSquared2 - H does go back and forth between these bursts of energy and lethargy. The entire 4 days Thanksgiving weekend, he slept on and off every day. As soon as work starts up again, he's off like an energizer bunny. It does seem to be a pattern, from one extreme to the other. I really am trying to leave him be. I wonder if this is his own therapy method of working through things. I kick myself when I intrude on it, but sometimes I just feel overwhelmed with the weight on my shoulders. I got what I needed to say off my chest, so now it's back to observing quietly.

It's how she seemed to work through stuff then.

Hello and Happy Friday. Just updating and journaling Michele's world! I would at home but my S consistently hijacks my Ipad and I never seem to get to it.

All going well here. I had IC yesterday which I notice can sometimes bring up some anger in me, but it went well in that I got a lot of praise for where my head is at. I am staying in high PMA, still making the choice each day to be happy and enjoy life. H and I continue to rebuild our friendship and I continue to see some changes happening.

It seems his trust in me is returning. When he thought I was going through his things and placing GPS on his vehicles, I had noticed that he started keeping his keys in his room instead of on the key rack. Just this week, he has returned to hanging his keys back on the key rack. He still talks in long term lingo, even using the word "we", and plans things for us to do as a family. We are getting our tree this weekend and plan on getting some new decorations for the yard and new lights for the house. H also continues to keep himself busy with home projects and I stay out of his way. Honestly, most times I don't even notice he is busy doing his thing because I am busy doing my thing. In fact, I find I don't think about him or sitch much at all anymore.

I can't put in to words the sense of freedom I have been feeling. I choose my mood and live it, feel it. I am consistently in a good mood, I feel loving and friendly not just towards my family and friends, but even strangers. I find myself making small talk and laughing so much. I don't feel like my life is on hold anymore. I am living as I would with our without H. He just doesn't have that power anymore, to effect me. I continue to feel on the fence in regards to my own feelings about our M. Which brings me to something I said yesterday in IC.

I told my IC that I feel very free right now, but am not ready for any kind of relationship, with H or anyone else. When I said it, I realized that this must be part of the freedom I feel. I don't want to have any R talk and don't want to commit to anything until I myself have done some more work on me so I can build a healthy relationship with someone, and I am not there! I keep that mirror in front of me and it is working well in helping me to make changes and stick to it. I am learning from things I do or say that make me feel icky about it. I am liking more and more what I see. But the realization that I am not ready for any kind of relationship right now - wow - that was a big thing for me to hear myself say.

I believe I see changes in H, that tell me he is also working on himself. He shows an effort to make me happy, and an effort to connect with S. I think I am doing a great job of leaving him be to do his work, while I do mine. Home is full of laughter, love and warmth. This works for me right now. I am ok not knowing what is around the corner as I'm not really sure what I want.

I also, as part of finding me, plan to figure out - what do I need to see in H, what changes, to feel secure in that he is in this? What changes do I want to see in myself to feel secure in moving towards an R? What would I need from someone to feel happy in an R? Can husband fulfill those needs? Or do I need to adjust my expectations? Lots going on in my noodle and a good conversation my IC and I will have in our next appt.

My most recent happy moment - me, S, dog and cat all snuggled in bed to go to sleep. H was closed away in his own room, and I thought to myself, how sad that he is missing out on this kind of simple love and comfort. If only he would let us in. Hopefully, in the future, there will be a moment when it can be all of us, no matter which way this goes. In the meantime, I eat it up and cherish each moment like this. My cup runnith over

Great to hear! Keep up that PMA:-)

You are doing great! Your h is slowly healing himself and it's going to take some time. Continue to be patient. Continue to be yourself.

I can just picture you, your son, dog and kitty are snuggled down in your bed for the night. What a beautiful picture that made. It's too bad your h isn't ready to share in that beautiful picture...but one day soon...he will.

Keep up the good work.

Snuggles are the best. I admire your tenacity and patience with H. It seems like you are trying to keep the long view in mind. That is a good tool. It allows you to enjoy the present and not get bogged down with anxiety. Freedom not only to make your own choices but freedom to let things be sounds very sweet indeed.

What color is the kitty?

Wow mleigh ... How far you have come, I'm so happy for you findig that inner peace where it all begins regardless of the sitch

Congrats on the PMA and that realistic point of view... Looks like you are doing so well ... You have this!

Good morning and thank you all for the encouragement. I am in a really good place right now, but I have my ups and downs still. I just hope to learn from them.

I've been thinking about the realization of not being ready for a R right now. Do any of you feel like this? Is this a normal part of the LBS process or am I done with H? I know this is for me to figure out, but I'm curious if any others feel this way or have seen this.

All I know is that I feel great and love this time I have been given to work through my own issues with no pressure for my R and/or M. Gee, sounds a little MLC like? It's funny the similiarities I see both sides go though on this journey.

One thing I feel getting to me, just a tiny bit, and you may think I'm crazy, but it is almost like H just thinks we can just start to move forward, back in place they way we were, with no regards to what has happened in the last year. I have dreamed of this day since BD, and here I am feeling a bit thrown off by it. These aren't his words, it's my own observation, but who is he to one day say he is moving out, then say he decided not to, then just start on like nothing has happened and we are all one big happy family again. Shopping for a tree, talking long term about our home, acting excited about presents he bought me. Who is this?? The same man who said he feels nothing for me, who turned his back on me, our family, our home and M. Who lied and hid things from me. Who continues to hide in his room as needed...

As you can see, I am in no way ready for our R. In talking with my IC, these are things I have not forgotten and really have not quite forgiven. I still feel like he hasn't been truthful with some of his explanations of buying movie tickets, a night at a hotel, women's shoes in my house, hiding under his covers with his phone. Ya, I'm not over it. Until the full truth comes out and we deal with it, it is not going to go away. But I know now is not the time. We are not there yet.

Last night, he came home after going to a Sharks hockey game with his dad. It woke me up, he got home about 3 hours after the game ended and my first thought was he stopped by a friends after. I wasn't worried about it. I heard him in the house, then it got quiet, but I noticed the hall light I leave on for him was still on, so I wondered, was I dreaming? So I got up to turn on the house alarm and there was H sitting in the living room in the dark eating a bowl of cereal. At first it startled me, then my first thought was, oh, he was on the phone but put it away as soon as I walked in. Especially with his nervous laugh, gave him away. So I asked, why the need to put the phone away when I come around sometimes? Why? H said no reason, he was done checking his facebook and he was getting ready to turn on the tv. I just don't buy it. I just don't. You don't hide the phone, unless you are hiding what you are doing, which isn't something right. Am I wrong here? So of course, this starts off a discussion that really wasn't needed as it all does no good when this stuff happens. But I realized, what does it matter? We are so not married right now, I am so disconnected from this man and can't even imagine being intimate with him anymore. I really don't care what he does at this point, but I just wish he would stop with the suspicious behavior. It never fails to set me off. This is my issue to work on, to not let it effect me, but sometimes that logic just goes out the window.

The discussion continued, his acting like the wounded deer who has no idea what I'm talking about or why, and me getting frustrated with being treated like I'm stupid. I finally just said, you can't blame me for these suspicions, based on what has happened this last year, but in all reality, it really doesn't matter at this point. He said something about the fact that he has caught me lying too, about checking his credit cards. So I came back with, why did I do that? Because of feeling like you were lying and sure enough, I was right. And he said, things were different after the blow up. So I asked, and what caused the blow up (BD) and he answered, my checking the phone bill. WRONG ANSWER! I said the blow up was caused by finding out you spent a night texting my so called friend in the middle of the night while I was sleeping. I told him, you haven't changed, you still refuse to look at yourself and your part in all of this. He just looked at me. So, here comes the blurt. I asked, are you still looking for a place? He hesitated, then said Yes. I said good and went to bed.

What came of this conversation? Absolutely nothing. What good did it do? Absolutely nothing. Now we get to wake up this morning feeling ackward after actually having a pretty nice day out shopping yesterday.

My goal right now is to work on my daddy issues, which for sure have effected past relationships and now my M. I was abandoned by my dad, he was never a part of my life. 2 weeks after my mom and dad got married, my dad was drafted to Vietnam. He did 3 tours of duty, my mom got pregnant with me while he was home on leave during this time. Once he finished his service and came home,he was a changed man, their marriage ended and he stayed in the service. All I know is that he moved to Germany and one time was stationed in Hawaii. But he was never a part of my life, I never heard from him. He became an alcoholic and drug user, heroine was his choice. He eventually died when I was 19 of liver failure. This is where my fixing comes in, if only I was a part of his life, our relationship may have saved him? My grandmother says he felt guilty about me and it was part of his reason for drugs and alcohol. I always dreamt as a little girl and teenager, that he would come to me, wanting to be a part of my life. And he totally let me down. He went and died on me without ever making peace with me. I believe this is cause for me not being able to totally open up and give my heart to a man. I believe I set up men in my life for failure and abandonment, and even push them to do this to me, expecting it. I have no problem showing love and affection to my S, to my friends, and to my pets. It is so easy to love them and show it and receive it back. But when it comes to a man in a relationship, I hold back, close off. So, until I get this issue under control, I am in no way ready for a R. And I see myself pushing H away, when he is so obviously showing signs of improvement. I can't let myself trust in that, because in my mind, I don't trust his motives and I don't trust him because he will just let me down again. I just know it.

I'm not sure how to deal with these issues, I will see if there are any self help books out there that touch on this. I always felt like something was missing in my life, which I assumed was my lack of a father figure. Then I met my H and that feeling honestly went away. I figured he was the answer, to that hole in my heart. I think I put way too big of an expectation on him for that. Especially being that he is a very private and low key person. I can't expect him, or anyone else, to fill that void.

So this is my current focus on me. A pretty big challenge to tackle, but I am up for it. It's way past time being that I'm 45 now!

I still feel happier than I have been in years. My M and R don't effect that, I am so over my M and it's problems. So done with it. Last night I realized, I am so done with that marriage and the person I was in it. I so look forward to the changes in me and what will become of it. I love the friendship my H and I have rebuilt, but accept that I don't know if I can feel more for him. And I am not worried about that right now. It's not the time for that. I'm just not ready.

I feel myself getting pulled into that pit of anger and resentment towards H and I'm really trying to pull myself out of it. I think he has been great, being really into the holidays and taking care of home, spending a lot of time at home, but I wonder if it is just because of the holidays. He has me so confused talking long term. "Let's get these lights and clips so they will be easier for US to put up EACH YEAR". "Let's buy this cover for the boat while we keep it at the house this summer". "I bought US these smoke detectors with 10 year batteries so WE don't have to worry about changing them so much".

Yes, it's wonderful and I have waited for over a year to hear him utter the words US and WE. Why aren't I happier? I feel the need to address the issues that have happened this last year. I am not the same person anymore, we are not the same people. It's not just going to be swept under the rug. For whatever reason, it is throwing me off balance and off track of my happy place I have been in.

It brings me back to some of Raine's postings, I remember her going through the same and if I remember right, they first built up their friendship, then slowly started back on their relationship and during that time, things started getting talked about and resolved. I am pulling in all the patience I have and really trying to be logical about my feelings because I don't think we are anywhere near stable enough to try to approach any issues and I just don't want to go anywhere near our R right now, I am still working on me. I just am having a hard time getting myself back in to my happy place!

One issue is really keeping me up at night. Every year H's mom has Christmas Eve at her house. In short, she left H's dad for another man, married him, and is now in a very unhappy and dysfuncional marriage with him. Her husband, disliking her so much, treats her kids and me very rudely. She has said, with it being her 3rd marriage, she just doesn't want to deal with another divorce so she is making the best of it. So, with our own marital problems have come some feelings of my own towards her and her choices. With my own situation, I almost feel, disappointment in her, almost an anger with the example she has given as now her son is putting his own family through a rough time. I know, my H's issues are not her fault, but her situation is not a place I want to be around right now. So, I really don't want to go this year. I didn't last year either, and she expressed how sad she was that I wasn't there, but I just don't feel comfortable. On my Christmas Eve, I want to be around love, warmth and happiness. Her home is no where near that. Also, it is mainly her husbands family that goes, my H's family is not very close so his 2 sisters are not normally there, just some neices and their kids. I worry about giving my S a bad example by not going. However the 3 of us will be spending Christmas Day at home together.

I have been invited to attend church services with a coworker and her husband on Christmas Eve and I have decided I will go to that. H and S can go to MIL's and maybe I will meet up with them after. I don't know, we will see on that. I may go treat myself to a really nice dinner instead or go visit some friends. I am just trying to figure out a way to do this without H thinking it is about him, and without hurting MIL's feelings. I am not worried what this may do to our M as we really have no M right now. I just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Any advise?

The things that your h is talking about now and in the future are very typical of mlcers. In many instances, they don't even realize what they've said about preparing things for the future. I always try to advise posters to listen, acknowledge the comments and then let them go. Don't question them about what they are talking about in the future.

Yes, you have to start out as friends, just as you did when you first met and go from there. It takes time and plenty of patience to do this. Get that patience shovel out and start digging. Just as you would w/new friends, keep your expectations very low and you won't be disappointed.

About the MIL and the holidays. No one wants to hurt the feelings of others, but you have to do what makes you happy. If you are happy being at home w/your h and child, then by all means do so. Your H can visit his mother whenever he likes and take along his son, if he wants to go. Better yet, your MIL could come to visit w/you and the family over the holidays. Notice...I didn't say anything about the her h. You could always invite her to lunch and have nice visit in your home or out at a caf�.

I would definitely attend the church services w/your coworker and her h on Christmas Eve. You've still got a week and anything can happen during that time. The Christmas season is always full of miracles and sometimes they come when you least expect them.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the holiday season and always be true to yourself.

Thanks Job my voice of reason. I still wish I could keep you in my pocket to stop me from doing or saying dumb things! Lol

I am already coming out of my funk. I realize when I look back, the funk appears. When I focus on moving forward, it starts to fade away. Also, looking in my mirror and talking to myself, that really helps. It reminds me of who I want to see and who I want to be. That is not a person who keeps hold of anger and resentments. That only hurts myself and I do realize that. I also notice I am able to bounce back quicker after a funk. It's getting easier to return my focus back onto whatever is waiting for me around the corner and something in my gut keeps telling me it's good.

I am looking forward to the church services. I have really no religious foundation and am curious to see how I like it. I would love to meet more people in my community and become involved.

It seems H has also bounced back from our talk Saturday night. Last night I kept my distance for ME. I tend to need that and prefer it when I am feeling funky. It keeps me from doing or saying something I will regret. But today H has already texted a couple of times, not ordinary, and we even shared a laugh.

Onward and upward I go!

And Job you are right about him seeming not to know what he is saying sometimes. He asked " what lights did we use on the house last year?" And " what lights were on the tree last year?" I didn't even live here last year. There were no lights on the house and he did the tree himself. At one point I did say " I didn't live here last year". He didn't say anything and I let it go

Gotta love that fog!!

I think your Christmas plans sound marvelous. If anyone asks you could just politely say you thought it might be nice to change course a little this year. You don't have to say anymore. You don't owe anyone a explanation but if MIL seems hurt you can acknowledge her feelings but you don't have to apologize. After all she has dealt with big changes in her own life.

123Gwen - thank you. I planned on just saying something like, I'm ready for some changes, would like to do something different, but I like your wording much better! I will also invite her over on Christmas, like I do every year.

Another twist in this is that I was talking to my S about my plans and he wants to come with me to church! I really hope my H and MIL will take this like adults and realize things have changed - and that is ok!

I have a quick update about myself. A few incidents came up recently, and I was really able to see my growth in how I handled them. First, the other night when I came home from work, as I was getting out of my truck in the garage, I set my foot down on the floor and it flew forward like I was on ice and I crashed down on my back. Not fun when you are 45 and not such a spring chicken anymore! I am ok, but it startled me! Anyway, when H got home, I told him I ate chit when I got home. He asked what happened, and when I explained, H said "oh - I hope it wasn't because I sprayed my jacket with water repellent and it got on the floor". Ok - back in the day, I would have gotten really irritated with that and told him he should have done that in the back yard or something! But instead I just said oh, could be. H asked me if I was ok and I told him I think so.

Fast forward to the next morning. My kitten knocked over the hamster cage and hamster cage mess was everywhere. Don't worry, thank goodness it happened while we were home, but we were already scrambling to get ready for work and S school. So, H and I came together and cleaned up the mess together, like a total team! Then H helped S get ready for school while I finished making our lunches. Again total teamwork. So S and I were getting ready to leave and went to say bye to H, who was in the back yard getting our dog ready for the day, and he had the sliding glass door wide open. Normally this is ok, but we have a kitten who can not go outside and she darts when that door is open. So I kind of panicked and asked H, did you see Mittens come out here? Again, normally I would have blew because I have told H so many times to not leave the door open that I can't count. But I stayed calm. H got a really guilty and "crap!" look on his face and said no. I could tell he felt bad - he just doesn't think. So S and I started searching the house, but we were already running late for school with the whole hamster ordeal. So H came in and told us to go, that he would look for kitten. I said Promise? You won't leave until you find her? He said promise. So S and I sprinted and actually made it on time to his class with no tardy! I got back in my truck to head to work and H had texted "She's here". I texted back " lol! And we made it on time to class! Happy Wednesday!". I really handled both of those situations differently than the old me. H and I came together and dealt with things together, like it should be, and were able to laugh about it. It makes me feel so much better about myself and yes, really proud when I look in the mirror. I like this girl!

Like Job told me - don't sweat the small stuff!

1st day of Winter today! Have I mentioned I love this time of year??? I just love it.

S and I are helping out my old neighbor from when we lived in our apartment to feed her cats while she is away. When we were walking in I told S that I couldn't believe we were living there this time last year. That it seemed years ago to me. My son said not to him! Lol.

So last night S and I had our plans for dinner and a walk around Christmas in the park with some good friends of ours. While we were getting ready to go, I asked H if he would like to come or if he was going to pass this time. He didn't answer, I could tell he was thinking. So I went about my business to get ready. After a few minutes H came to me and asked "what time are we leaving?" Wasn't expecting that! We went and had a really good time. These are friends he has mentioned that he is worried what they think of him. They were so excited to see him. He really seems to have no idea how much we all love him. And S loved that he came. H was so into the excitement with S. At one point I asked my friend to take a pic of me and S in front of the giant Xmas tree. H came over and got in the pic with us. I have some nice memories from last night

H's sister called yesterday and asked if her and her husband could come over on Christmas Day to visit with us. It has turned into Christmas dinner with H's dad included. I am really looking forward to it.

I told H about my going to church on Christmas Eve. He asked if I was going to his moms and I let him know that I would like to do something different. He seems fine with that, said he would take S over for a bit. My friends have invited me for Xmas eve dinner so my plans are set and it all sounds perfect for me. This holiday season I am in such a different place than last year

I feel free, happy, independent... Ready for a nice week. Not ready to think about New Years. Will tackle that one next!

I'm very happy to come here and read that your h opted to come along for the dinner and festivities in the park. He didn't feel any pressure and he was able to make the decision on his own and had a great time w/his family and friends. This is a big step for him in the right direction.

Sounds like this holiday season will be much brighter for you and your family. I'm sure the photo is a nice one. You might want to think about having it enlarged and place it somewhere in your home to remind you that miracles can and do happen during the holiday season.

I think it's wise of you to start some new traditions to keep things fresh and make new memories. You just might be surprised at how much he'll want to participate w/you and your son if you continue to do this. One thing...low or no expectations...okay?

May your holiday season be bright and a happy one.

This week has been crazy busy. I finally have a chance to check in and catch up. I hope everyone had a good Christmas.

Christmas Eve I had to work but they let us go early at 2. I got S and we want to my old neighbors to feed her cats. I have to say, going to my old apartment is bringing back some crappy memories and feelings from a difficult time last year! I have been feeling a bit down and wonder if this has anything to do with it. I am really trying to change my thoughts from bad flashbacks to being grateful I am home this year instead. S and I went to church services at 5. This was a first for us. We were both not sure what to expect and laughed as we sat close to the door in case we wanted to sneak out! But we stayed the full service and it was actually pleasant for me. S didn't care for it so much but he stuck it out! After, we went back home to switch off S. H had just gotten home from work and was very stressed out and scrambling to get together the gifts for his mom's house that he didn't have ready. He was worried because he got gifts for his nieces children, but forgot one which is a new baby. I usually do this shopping, but have not the past 2 years. He really has no relationship with his sisters or nieces, the pressure of gifts seem silly to me. But I assured him he did great and to try to not worry about it, that his niece will understand. I grabbed my bottle of wine and cheesecake and left to head to my friends for Christmas Eve dinner!

I had a wonderful night and just felt so welcome for dinner. It was a relaxed night filled with delicious food on a fancy decorated table with lots of laughs. It was perfect and the best Christmas Eve I have had in years. I missed being with S, but did not miss one single second of being at MIL's house as we have done the last 13 years. I got home about 10:30 and H and S had just gotten home too. S was crashed out but woke up and squeezed back when I gave him a goodnight hug and kiss. H and I spent the next hour getting the stockings and house all set for Santa! Santa even fills our cat and dog's stockings! H finally sent me to bed because I was exhausted.

S woke me up about 7 Christmas morning jumping up and down. Each year it gets better with him! We all got up and opened gifts. We all got great gifts and had fun opening. H then made us waffles for breakfast. My mom came over for a little bit, then H's dad, sister ( who I have built a close relationship with this last year)and BIL came for dinner. Overall it was a nice day. Once Everyone left and I got the house back in order I finally sat down to chill. I have to admit I was felling a little sadness. I noticed myself watching H throughout the day and feeling like he was disappearing with his phone. Why does he constantly need that thing on him? Is everyone like this and am I just over sensitive and paranoid? I mean, the man literally sleeps with his phone instead of his wife. How do I not wonder if there is a OW sometimes? Anyway, I hate when that anxiety creeps in, it becomes a battle for me to control. I also reflected on the gifts I got from H. Nice things but all material, nothing personal. I felt a little sad that I didn't have that warmth of love and security for Christmas. But I switched my focus to S and all that I get from him. I just miss the connection with H sometimes. I didn't say anything or do anything about my feelings, I just withdraw when I feel this way.

Trying to shake the melancholy today. Reading some posts on here really helps. I think I have drifted from my detachment path so need to find my way back there. I don't know where H's thoughts and heart are. I know we were all home together and had a nice day. I need to rebury my fears of what he does on that damn phone. Let things play out and only live by what I know. My imagination can be brutal!

Hmm.. yes, the imagination is often worse than reality. Took a while for me to see that, but found it to be true over and over again.

This time of year can be rough whether going through difficult times or not. Don't beat yourself up about it. As always, tomorrow is a new day with new surprises. Don't let the imagination get in the way of that!

Glad you had a great Christmas!

AJ

Well there she blows! I have been feeling it build up in me. I have been watching and waiting for H to need to go out to do something. Of course, I still suspect he is hiding something, maybe someone? Not sure. So today H says he is going to go return a shirt he got his dad that didn't fit. Knowing the store he was going to, and that there is a see's candy next door to it, I decided to test it. I gave him a coupon we got for a pound of see's candy and asked him to grab that while there. Also asked if he could run by grocery store for a few things. So H was gone about 3 hours. And no See's candy, says the line was too long. My bells and alarms go off. And anxiety took over....

I went into "his" room to put away some Christmas stuff we store in that closet and there is the bag for the stuff he was to return. Wasn't sure if it was the same sweater or not but the receipt showed he bought 2 things 2 hours after he left here and in a store 35 miles away instead of the one in town. My mind starts going, where was he before that??? So I asked and he got defensive, said he decided to go by Jose's before the shopping. It escalated and I asked him to prove he was there. To show me the text on his phone when Jose texted him and he said no. We argued, I told him the only reason he couldn't prove me wrong was because he was lying. He finally grabbed his phone looking at texts and I grabbed for it. We started totally wrestling over his stupid phone and he managed to click it off. I again told him you wouldn't act like that if you weren't hiding something. I told him this is no joke, that I am a hairline away from filing for D because I can't live this ridiculous charade anymore. He said no matter what, I never believe what he says. I told him that is only because he can never prove me wrong. That any normal person would want their spouse to know they were telling the truth. He broke my trust, several times, with that stupid phone and his actions are not earning it back. I then got the speal of blame blame blame. I grabbed his phone again and hid it, told him he wasn't getting it ubtil he was honest with me. After more drama, I finally just gave it back to him, told him again that he was cruel for putting our marriage and family through all of this. That he really should just get out. He said he is looking for a place.

Oh man, did I flip or what? I am so sick of his phone. Honestly, his behavior on that phone is the cause for our marriage failing. I just don't think he woulld guard it like that if he wasn't hiding something. I refuse to be married to someone who hides things. I can't. I am at my ropes end right now. I want him out. I need to regroup. Right now, I have no respect or attraction to that man. None.

I'm so sorry that things escalated. Maybe he did or maybe he didn't return the sweater, but the receipt shows he bought 2 items. Can you tell what they were? Now, this is really a no no, but if it will help clear your mind, find the receipt and take it to the store. They can tell you what he purchased. I did that and that's how I caught my xh in his lies and deception. Not very db like, but you've been at this a while, i.e., suspecting him of something. If the gut tells you that something is not right, then it's not.

He's been doing some gas lighting and it's time to turn that gas off. No more talks about how close you are divorcing him. He thinks that because you brought it up in the heat of the moment that you are just using idle threats. Doesn't sound like he's being looking for a place very hard. Notice how he brings that up whenever there are discussions about what he's doing or not doing? It's his way of trying to keep you from asking questions, etc.

Take some time to breathe and settle down. When you are feeling a little more at peace, you will know when you've had enough. You have to take care of you and your child. The stress and tension are escalating and it's not good for either of you or your pets.

Hi Job,

I am feeling really down right now. I think it's time, to find a mediator and start splitting things up. I think it's time. I for too long have felt there is something not right with him. I look at him and just don't see my husband anymore. My feelings have changed so much. I look at him and think, ew, weirdo, trainwreck, liar.... Not good things. I love him, don't get me wrong, but there is no connection emotionally or physically. The thought of him even touching me makes me cringe. I am back to feeling how I did when I initially pulled away several years ago. It's all back again. But now lies and deceit are added into the mix of things. I get in his truck or jeep and wonder, who has been in here? Where has it been? He goes into the bathroom for 20 minutes and it's who is he talking to? I wonder when he went Christmas shopping, who is he shopping for? My mind keeps going to OW, but I still have no proof. And his phone, he has it on him at all times, it is never lying around or left out. Never. He is hiding something, OW, drugs, stolen goods, porn, online relationship.... who knows. All I know is this isn't healthy, for any of us. Yes, we get along and live in harmony in our home for the most part, but my suspicions wear on me. I need him out.

More thoughts coming in. The thing is, to live here in harmony, I can be patient with his MLC, give him his space and time to find himself, accept that I have been abstinent for 1 1/2 years and counting. But I can't live with lies. I need him to be open and honest with me and if he can't do that than our living arrangement doesn't work for me.

When he left here yesterday and gave me the impression that he was going to a store here in town, he headed straight to a different city instead. Why couldn't he just tell me that? Say I'm going to go visit so and so, then hit the stores. That is what sets off my alarms and whistles. I don't care that he visits his friend, I think that is great, but I don't think that is what he did. He just kept saying over and over, I didn't do anything wrong. He may not have, but lying is wrong. I don't understand why he feels this need to do things different than what he says behind my back, and insist it is all innocent. His story he gave me, that Jose texted him while he was out, doesn't jive. H was supposed to be heading straight to Marshalls and See's candy in town, instead, according to his story, he said he headed to See's candy in a town 10 miles away, the line was too long to wait, then got the text from Jose and headed there, another 20 miles away. I just don't get it.

He may have always been like this and I just never knew because for 14 years, I never had any trust issues with him. It's very passive aggressive behavior to do what he does, I may have never noticed it before.

The other night he was flying S's new helicopter around the house and he flew it over my head, then it came crashing down on me. It really hurt. H just laughed. I got up and calmly took it to him, although I really wanted to throw it back at him. After about 20 minutes and fuming, I said "aren't you going to at least say sorry for crashing that thing into my head?". H said, oh, did it hurt? I said of course it did, but that doesn't matter either way. When you do something like that, it's common courtesy to say sorry. It's just good manners. My son just looked at H and nodded in agreement. H said sorry and sulked the rest of the night. I've been waiting for my passive aggressive punishment and payback. I guess saying he was doing one thing, and doing another, was it. Classic.

Like a teenager, he doesn't think about what he's doing and how it reflects back on him to you. Like a teenager, he figures he'll go to the next town and do whatever there and you won't find out. Again, he's not thinking how it looks, nor does he really care. He's flexing his muscles a bit and looks at you as an authority figure and his motto could very well be "what she doesn't know won't hurt her". Like a teenager hiding things from mom.

As for being sorry about you getting hit in the head, well. his empathy chip is broken and he thought it was funny. He doesn't realize that you could have been seriously hurt, i.e., hit in the face, poked in the eye, etc. Again, not thinking.

As we have talked many times on this forum, lies come naturally to them in crisis. They aren't of their right minds and believe me, if their lips are moving, they are lying.

I'm going to suggest that you read up on passive-aggressive behavior. You will be surprised at what you learn and then you'll be able to reflect back and see his actions and go "wow". Once you learn more about it, you'll be able to recognize it for what it is and avoid stepping into the trap of reacting.

I'm very sorry that you holiday has been marred by his behavior. Breathe, cuddle your son and your little kitty. Try not to react to his bad behavior because he's acting out like a spoiled child.

Hi mleigh,
So very sorry to hear the place you are at. Things had started to sound like they were going well but I do understand that feeling of how you just can't pretend the last year didn't happen. There comes a point where you get so tired of always having to be the "grown up", the one that "let's things go". I so can relate to the phone issue. My W, when she was home never left her phone out of her sight. I remember when she first started to change, to go into her MLC, we went out to dinner together. This was special because with two teenage girls we were always having to pick up or drop off or whatever and never had any "us" time. Well, the whole meal she was on her phone texting her "friends" from work. I do mean the entire time. I finally had enough and asked her to please put the phone down and talk to me instead of the people she spends her entire day with. You would have thought I asked her to cut off her hand! If I had ignored her that way she would have been so hurt and upset. I think that's the rub. It gets hard being treated in a way that THEY would never put up with from us. The way they avoid by turning things back on us, the way they project their own chit onto us. My W has stated so many times how she couldn't "trust" me. What couldn't she trust? I was always there for her, I never did anything that I wouldn't share with her. What she couldn't trust was herself, her own feelings.

I can also relate to the paranoia about you putting GPS in his car or what not. My W swore that I was tracking her constantly, reading her emails, checking up on her...the thing is, I wasn't. Even if I had been, what difference would it make unless there was something she had to hide? Now that W is no longer living here the phone isn't always in her sight. In fact my D15 tells me she has forgotten to take it to work a few times. So, why was it so important to keep it in sight when I was around but now not? The only reason could be because SHE was hiding something. Why can't they understand that it's their own behavior that is causing the problems, that they are the ones that aren't allowing the M to work?

The way your H is acting reminds me of something my W said to me, on more than one occasion. She said "I don't want my M to work anymore". Who says something like this? If your M and it's working, than that means that things are going well and each person is happy. How crazy is it that she can really feel that she doesn't want a M that works? Of course she wants A M that works, what she doesn't want is to face the fact that she is the one who destroyed her own M and family. It is easier I think for the MLCer to push the LBS away than to face up to the fact that they were the ones that ruined a M and family. They have projected so much of their pain onto us, invested so much in us being to blame for their bad feelings they are afraid to stop. If we aren't the cause then what is?

It seems to me that your H wants to have his family but isn't ready to do any of the work needed to have a R. That just can't work in the long run. You have really grown over the last year while he has regressed. Even if he has nothing to hide, he has to know that acting like a teenager, hiding things from you can't happen if he wants a R with you. It just isn't possible. I think this is where the process breaks down. You are more adult and together and then you have been in the past and he is more messed up and immature than he has been since he was a teenager. M is bout more than being "in love" with your S. It's a commitment to another person. If I needed to feel madly in love with my W in order to want to be M, my M would have ended long ago. That's not enough to give up on a M. But, if the other person just refuses to face their own problems, blames their S for their own bad feelings and actions and isn't willing to make the changes needed, that IS a reason to end a M. Only you know when you have had enough, given him time to come to his senses. Just be sure that you can look back and say you gave it all you had.

Hang in there mleigh. You will know when you have had enough and the distance between you and your H has become too great.

Job- earlier this year my FIL told me that H grew up in a very passive aggressive home and environment and to read up on it. I got a book right away, being married to a passive aggressive man. And oh yes, it described my H and our marriage to a T. It has helped to recognize the signs, even to predict behaviors. I just knew yesterday was coming, aftee standing up to him about the helicoptor. The thing is, when I call him out on his behavior, its almost like he looks at himself for a brief moment, see's what an ass he is being, then turns the blame on me because he cant face it. Mindreading, I know, but a pattern I see over and over.

Matt- you are spot on about many things. I do believe H doesnt want to lose us and wants to stay home. I really do. But most of that seems to be for his own selfish reasons. I have my boundaries, I know to live in harmony together during our journeys, that I must have honesty. I cant live day to day feeling over and over again that he is hiding something. And the way he panicked and wrestled that phone out of my hand tells me he is hiding something. Its immature, childish, self centered and I wont stand for it. I am not trying to come off as his mother although I know this is how he sees it. In fact, he kept saying last night that he couldnt believe I was so upset that he went by Jose's. He just doesnt see it for what it is, that I am upset about his behavior and mainly, that he wont prove me wrong by showing me his phone. That phone and whatever is on it, his stubborness, is more important than his family and marriage.

What it all comes down to is this. For a year and a half H has turned his nose up at our family, our home and our marriage. He has moved himself into the spare room of his own home. He has not touched his wife in 1 1/2 yeara. He has done 1 maybe 2 things as a family. He has done his party all night stint, slept on peoples couches, ceeated a new circle of friends. I want to ask him, how is this all working for you? Have you found the happiness you are looking for? Is your life better for it? Do you look in the mirror at the end of the day and think to yourself, I have been a steller husband, father and man today? My guess is no. He is not ready or able to face himself and the mess he has created. All the better for him to get out on his own to figure things out.

The good part of all this? I can, however, look in the mirror each night and say I have been a supportive and caring wife, a loving mother and an amazing and strong women. That he cant take away!

Originally Posted By: mleigh4

He just kept saying over and over, I didn't do anything wrong. He may not have, but lying is wrong.

Mleigh .. yeah .. That^^^^ wow .. I get that one when the spew sessions erupt .. I can completely relate to that and the passive aggressive behavior .. .with the W it seemed to have started and reached very bad levels .. at the time I thought it was her illness/diet change and a nice side of Bipolar (Both MIL and SIL diagnosed ... so I assumed that what she was going through)

I constantly get the "Its not cheating nor adultery because we are separated .... so for those keeping score ... you can decide to leave and continue the affair and all is good .... this MLC Bizzaro-World is not one normal people can navigate very well as far as I am concerned.

Reading your sitch ... I get you and where you are coming from. Trust is that one thing I too never in a million years thought I would ever worry about with W ... then .. whammo .. all of it gone in an instant. Seems your H may be feeling the pressure ... and yeah .. hiding the phone at all costs does raise huge red flags especially with all the MLC-ness that comes with it. I do not have much advice other than .. do you .. detach .. regardless of what he is doing there is little you can do to control him, set your boundaries and just be firm about them .. your teenaged husband needs that.

My arm and wrist hurt so bad from H yanking me back for his phone. I am 5 feet 100 pounds, he is 5'11 and 190. Big difference. As the day goes on, it's getting more and more sore. I still can't get over it, he has never laid his hands on me like that. All over his cell phone. It was wrong for me to grab it, but still......

He is such a stranger to me right now. I don't even want to go home from work. I don't want to be around him right now. If it wasn't for my son, I would have no problem getting the hell out and on with my life.

Originally Posted By: mleigh4

I got a book right away, being married to a passive aggressive man. And oh yes, it described my H and our marriage to a T. It has helped to recognize the signs, even to predict behaviors. I

What book did you read? It sounds like something to add to my reading list.

seaspin,

I read the following book on passive-aggressive behavior and found it very good:

"Living with the Passive Aggressive Man, Coping With Hidden Aggression�From The Bedroom to The Boardroom by Scott Wetzler, Ph.D."

Good morning. The book Job mentioned is the same I read. I found it to be helpful in realizing I wasn't crazy!

H and I haven't said one word to each other but went about our night like normal for S. My thinking right now is this. My hopes are that he moves out, but he is really dragging his feet and I have no power to force him out. I told him to get out and he always answers this is my house too.

I am going to ask him to attend 1 marriage counseling session with me. We need help. If he says no, and I am sitting on this one, but I am at the point to schedule a mediation appointment. I already have started looking up places.

I am at my rock bottom. I can't deal with lies and deceit. I do understand in his mind he does not think of us as married and so he doesn't have that level of respect to be open and honest about things. I really do get that. But I am so tired of feeling the way I do.

I have DR but ordered DB to read. I really am trying to keep standing.

mleigh

So sorry it went south like that ... breath. This too will pass. I would imagine movement from your H soon ... there must be a good deal of pressure on him and he is most likely wrestling with what to do and he can not ask you on this one. Just let it sit in the crockpot, continue to DB ... GAL, PMA would be the best way to handle yourself ... fake it .. I know you are hurting ... sometimes all we can do when we are in the funk is fake it and if we can do that long enough it starts taking root.

Hi Caliguy,

Thanks for checking in. I am sitting and thinking, not saying a word. I just have nothing to say to him right now. Lots of thinking!!

Normally after something like this H would go into "happy mode". His coping mechanism of being overly happy. These last 2 nights he looks as in shock over all of this as I am. He just sits and stares at the tv, real quiet. Same as me. So you may be right about him trying to figure out what to do. Maybe he is freaked out about the way he got physical with me. H has never done anything like that, way out of character for him.

Space right now would be best. I know the statistics on a saved marriage are higher when both people stay in the home, but our arrangement goes well, then blows up. I don't know. I guess it's not realistic to always go smooth, maybe I expect too much. I keep expecting to be treated as his wife. My bad.

I have been able to let go of H over this past year. He can do what he wants when he wants, I don't grill. But when I get that feeling that he is lying and find out I'm right, not good. So, I think my next step is to let go of our M. I haven't yet, I have been holding on to that hope and dream of us getting through this. I think to completely let go and feel free from this, I need to let go of our marriage and the expectations that go with it.

My new year's resolution summed up in one word? Freedom. I want to be free from this.

mleigh

Yeah I am not sure on which side I fall on .. Separate/Stay in home ... I know both have their pro's and con's .... however in my case I do have a fear that after x amount of time of being separated its just accepted and D is nothing more than a formality. I feel at times .. out of sight out of mind .. harder to show that PMA/GAL/180 when you are limited in the actions with the WAS .... conversely I am not sure I wouldn't blow up being in the trenches as you are on a regular. I fear I would not have done the work on myself that I have.

The "thinking" can be good ... maybe this is a catalyst to healing and growing .. reflecting on where you both are .. I am sure neither one of you can believe it went there ... and you both are in shock as that elephant circles you both trying to figure out which one of you to sit on.... my guess is H feels that pressure on his chest, he may or may not have something to hide .... regardless dude is going to have to come to terms with what he wants .. as are you. Get out ... get away .. get back to your center and happy place. That may very well be where your freedom exists ... I know for me I hit a point I just knew I would be ok .. either way .. inner peace .. that's where my freedom resides regardless of what my WAS does/doesn't do ... I refuse to let her take away my inner peace that took me so long to find.

Hi, I'm back. Back as in I picked myself back up again and dusted myself off. My PMA is better, but still feeling like a hissing cat with H.

Speaking of, my kitten peed on H's bed last night. Does she have my back or what??

Last night was the normal routine of dinner together. H came to me about putting a back up camera in my truck, one of his Xmas gifts. I told him to please not worry about that right now. He said, it's not a gift! Just something to help when you back up! Nice. I again told him that I don't want it, thanks. I sound childish, but I don't want anything from him right now. I want him to leave me alone, to stay away from me and my stuff right now. Like I said, a hissing cat.

Have no plans for tonight. I work today but we usually get off a little early. I plan on just hanging out with S, celebrating at 9 with the east coast, then fall asleep on the couch. Ya, I'm old. Our annual tradition has been to all go out to dinner to our fav restaurant. We even did it last year while separated. I have no desire this year. I wonder what H will do tonight? My guess is a last minute invite from someone I have never heard of

. I will just expect something like that. Honestly, just me and S in the house sounds really good.

I still want H to move out. I think he needs it, I think I need it. Here is to 2015! I hope we all continue on our path of growth and self worth!

Mleigh I'm sorry to hear it's been a rough several days. Hope your arm is ok- that was quite a reaction! I'm loving that your kitten peed on his bed though- I cracked up when I read that!
I hope things settle down for you soon- keep focusing on you.

Sorry for the very belated reply. Thank you Job and mleigh for the name of the book!

mleigh, I hope you feel better soon and that this new year will bring good things for you.

Mleigh sorry I have been away for the holidays but just caught up on your thread. In some ways I envy you having H in the same house but there also comes a tipping point when the negatives outweigh the positives. You are the only one that can make that decision. I have such a different situation but I can say that once H moved out our house became a home again. It is quiet and sometimes I am very lonely but there is also peace. I didn't realize all the tension until it is gone.

Just be sure to take a deep breath and ponder things a bit so the decision you make is something you can accept. You have far more control than H will ever admit.

Hang in there. I hope your arm and wrist are better. How goes the back?

Daring, sea spin, 123gwen,

Thank you for your good wishes. I wish everybody peace this year too!

Last night with it being New Years, I got off work early, picked up S and came home. I took a quick shower, and turned off my phone. Lol. Not sure why, I was expecting a TM from H saying he was going out or something and I just didn't want to hear from him at all. I wanted to erase my reality for the night. Well, H came home from work about 5:15. Guess I was wrong. He changed into sweats and said he was going to work on the jeep in the garage. He made himself a margarita and went downstairs. A few minutes later, he came back up, said the margarita was really good and asked if I wanted one, with it being New Years and all. I said sure.

About 10:00, he was still in the garage. With the new year approaching, I felt the need to clear the air, make peace and start fresh. I went into garage. H was sitting in jeep, listening to music, said he put in some new amps. We listened to a few more songs. I told him, things haven't turned out so good with us, huh? I said, I never would have thought we could get here. I then asked, are you ready to call it a day? I actually am ready if he is. He answered that he swore he was looking for a place and that there was just nothing out there. He said maybe he should have taken that last place, but it was a dump. He said he is trying to find a 6 month lease but can't and doesn't just want to move anywhere. I asked him, do you want to move out? He said he thinks it might be a good idea. I told him, think? Might? Give me a straight answer, do you want to move out? He said, I don't know. He said he likes waking up and going to sleep in same house as S everyday. I told him I understand that completely and that I honestly believe our living arrangement could have worked well if I felt he could be open and honest with me.

I continued to tell him, I don't want a R with you right now. I said I am working on some of my own issues, most of them being daddy issues, and want to deal with some long overdue things so that I can be a better person in my next relationship. I said I really hoped we could both live here, figure ourselves out in our own space and S would be able to have both parents home. I believe that would be the ideal. I said all I ask is for honesty but I keep getting this gut feeling that something isn't right, this feeling that lies keep coming, and even though we are not married in any sense other than paper right now, I still expect to be treated with respect. He said yes, things are not right, obviously. But it's not that I lie, I just don't feel the need to tell you every step I take and you take that as lying. He went on to give the other day as an example. Said he was enjoying just driving, listening to music, so he drove to the next town instead of close by.

We talked a little more about when I was in my WAS mode, made some comparisons to his feelings today. I told him it's only because I went through that that I have been able to find the patience and understanding I have. I told him however, I didn't lie and hide things from you, I didn't create a new circle of friends, I didn't withhold sex from you for a year, and this is why I struggle with trying to believe there isn't an unknown reason or person involved. He said there were times he felt the same and had the same fears with me. I never came close to an affair. In the end I told him that I think it would be good for him to move out since he never has really been out on his own. He argued back that he has, briefly when he was in Arizona for HVAC schooling. We pretty much stopped there. I told him all I really wanted to do was clear the air so we could start our New Year right. He said I think that went well.

All 3 of us stayed awake ubtil midnight and rang in the New Year together.

I love that we can mostly talk instead of fight. I love that he has made progress in this last year, especially these last few months. I love that I can talk openly about calling it quits and I'm not afraid of it anymore. I love that H opens up more than he ever has. So if he has been making progress, why do I self destruct and sabotage? I am finding out in a book I started reading about being abandoned by a parent. It touches on feeling unworthy of love, I see a lot of this in me. Just the idea that this may actually work out makes me feel a little panicked. That I know I will screw it up. H comes home straight from work every day, doesn't go out on party binges with mystery people anymore, I see him changing and trying, And I feel confused because I expect to be treated badly. Pretty messed up, huh? Ya, I got some work to do.

Today my mindset is this: I've still got lots of work to do on me! My focus is not my marriage but me. I will live day to day believing H is looking for a place to move. If anything, it takes some of the pressure off of me to make living together work. It also may help me to detach better and leave him alone. I also will try to keep talking with him. Not about our R or future - just us, just stuff.

Sorry for the ramble. It helps so much to get this out of my head!