Hi everyone, Wow, some really interesting stuff over on my last thread over the last couple days!!
Today I found out that things at the company where I've been trying to really get things going are worse than I thought. Seems that the guy in charge of the money hasn't been up front about where all the funds have been going. He has been in France for the last 2 weeks and on Friday the internet died. Thing is that means EVERYTHING dies as we are on internet phone lines so we couldn't even call our clients or leads. Found this out just as I was about to make enough to get me through a couple more months but now, I'm dead in the water! As of today I'm waiting to hear back from the president (I'm Sr. VP) about if the internet is back or not. Nothing yet but he is going to call me tomorrow morning and let me know if things have been worked out.
So, today I applied for a couple new "jobs", back to working for someone else I guess. Too bad, a little more time and I really think things would have worked. I spent time polishing up my resume (I have been, just hadn't sent it out yet) and sending to a couple places in my field. Hopefully things will move along swiftly as I had really counted on this last couple sales and am broke and late on my car payments. I also missed a call from my lawyer and I'm not sure what that is about but probably not good (it seldom is). No one to blame but myself for not being more proactive and leaving this place sooner. Of course, it wouldn't be a problem if my W was still here like I was for her when she was trying to try a new job but, again, that isn't her fault, it's mine for not realizing that without her income, I wouldn't be able to make this start up work and walking away. I just didn't want the last year to go to waste as I worked so hard on getting the business up and running. And yes, Wonka, you warned me! I did network some after you suggested it but didn't find anyone who is looking to hire at the moment.
I may have to ask my parents for more money which is really hard for me at my age! I had to go to them to pay for my lawyer as my W left me with NO money when she filed. She, of course said I didn't "need" a lawyer as her lawyer could do "everything" and would be fair to me even though he works for her. When I told my dad this he offered to pay and I didn't need to ask but still my parents don't have much money and I hate to ask!
Still trying to digest everything that was posted over the last few days as I didn't have time today due to all that is going on. Thanks for listening everyone and I hope all is well with everyone!
Hey Matt,
I am sorry finance dude was less than optimal... BUT, good for you to see this reality now and not keep hanging on and moving forward, I have done that a couple times too many when I was a principle or the owner...
I just didn't want the last year to go to waste as I worked so hard on getting the business up and running.
I SO get this, it one of my personality traits as well. What is interesting is that "time not wanting to go to waste" ... kinda like a 24 year R and M.... ?
Matt, great on getting those resumes out ASAP. I know your not really interested in working for some one else right now, but until you get back solid on your feet, may be the best thing to do.
Hang in there,...this too shall pass
Thanks T2 and 2B,
I tried to post earlier but it disappeared when the site went down. I wonder when they will finish the "work" on the forum.
T2, I have always been very "loyal" when it comes to the people and places I have worked. I just can't understand the way people move from place to place and "loyalty" isn't seen as important nowadays. Of course it hasn't always been in my best interest in the end. This time I really wanted it to work not only because of myself but because of the others who joined when I did. I'm guessing that this is another opportunity to learn from my sitch. And yes, losing M and R of 26 years does seem like a great waste, doesn't it?
Thanks and I agree that it is probably best for now. I have to remember that there will be other opportunities. The worst part for me will be the lack of freedom that I will have to be there for my D14 if I start working for others. Funny, just when, after so many years of worrying more about making enough to keep the family going, my kids are now more important to me than my success in business. At the same time my W has gone the other way, wanting to be successful in her work being more important than her family. Probably a natural thing as the kids grow older and don't "need" her as much (or so it seems). Too bad, if we could have worked through this it could have worked out and we both could have gotten what we wanted. MLC is such an awful thing for those going through it and all those having to deal with the fall out.
Matt
I tried to post this yesterday but the boards were down…… these are a few things from your last post over at your old thread.
For her to tell me to my face that she was fine with what we agreed to and then when it came down to actually doing it, (and after she had already claimed all that she wanted), she, once again, "changed her mind", was, in my mind, another huge betrayal.
Get used to “betrayal”…it may happen for a long time. That said, what is most important is to learn that HER ACTIONS should not DRIVE how or what you do.
I can no longer afford to see my W and feel compassion for her because that has only served to allow her to take advantage of me up to this point.
You should realize that this ^^^^ is a CHOICE that YOU are making. I know it may not seem like it right NOW…You could though have compassion and NOT allow her to take advantage of you. All it takes….is a choice.
Besides her actions have shown she has no compassion for me and how her actions have affected my life, nor does she even seem to appreciate it when I do.
F*ck HER ACTIONS – you have no control over them. What you do have is control over YOUR actions. She is NOT going to appreciate anything you do…at least not for a very long time. The question here though….is are YOU doing with an EXPECTATION that she will do something nice in return? If so, then IMO, you are setting yourself up for disaster.
My life won't be my own until the D is final.
IF you feel this way then it will be…..if you CHOOSE to feel differently…it will be different. IMO, you are already divorced. What you are doing right now is going through the legal process. Your emotional divorce occurred a long time ago.
I really do get that there is no other outcome possible at this point. I don't have any hope that there will ever be anything close to "reconciliation".
Loss of hope is the biggest motivator in divorces. I am not saying that you are wrong in feeling how you do, nor am I suggesting that you will or will not reconcile. I guess my point is maybe…you should change what you are hoping for. Maybe, it is time for you to hope for a happy life for YOU – whatever way that looks.
Besides, it was never really about me or our M. It's always been about her and how she feels about herself and her life. I really see that she is searching for what she feels is "missing" in her life more than trying to escape me. Sure, she is running from me but it's not the only thing she is running from. She is running from herself and her "old" life, I was just the biggest part of that life.
As hard as it is…..take comfort in knowing that YOU did not cause this. It was bound to happen. YOUR W was bound to have her crisis. So be gentle on yourself at the same token try and have some compassion that she is really messed up right now. FTR, I know how hard that is when she is trying to carve up your testicles and serve them to you with dinner. J
I really miss my family being together
(((hugs))) dude. I know how much it hurts. What helped for me was trying to focus on my “new” family structure and focusing on making “new memories”. Keep your focus on you and the kids. Ignore your w.
For now it's a lot harder due to the timing of my W's crisis but it won't always be that way.
Hard does not equal impossible – remember that. Also, consider…….do ever really appreciate things when they are easy? Hmmmm….if you are like me – no. I appreciate things a lot more when I have had to bust my butt to achieve them.
I agree that my W is going to be in for a really bad time when (if) her father does end up dying. I also don't see any way I can either make that better or worse for her. I don't see any way anything I may say or do will have the slightest affect on her.
It is not YOUR job to make things better for her. She is an adult (okay probably a child in an adult body) and has to figure this out herself. Stop for a second….do you think HEALTHY R’s are R’s where one of the other partners always figures it out? Do you think always fixing things for her is in HER best interest? How is she suppose to figure it out?
She has totally disassociated herself from me and only see's me as someone that is supposed to help pay for the things that our D's need.
She has to. Right now chances are that YOU represent everything that is wrong in her life. Consider a teenager if you will. Notice how they blame YOU for the choice and mistakes THEY make. It really is no different.
She doesn't seem to have any respect for me, any appreciation for anything I may do that helps her out. Like this weekend when I offered to keep D14 until Monday so she didn't need to rush home from visiting her father out of town. I still do these things but not because of any other reason than it's the right thing to do.
First she is not gonna respect you if YOU do not respect yourself. Second….I think and I could be wrong…that you are still doing “these things” in the hopes that she will see it and change. Stop it. Do what it is that YOU want to do. Wanna to spend more time with D, then do it and expect NOTHING from her. It is after all your D14.
Yes, I hate what she has done. I hate that she totally just gave up after so many years without even trying ( I understand she may feel that she did "try", I just don't see it).
Lemme ask you a question……. Why don’t you “see it”? Is that conclusion because you did not get what YOU wanted?
I hate that because of her doing this my life must now totally change from what I planned it to be for so very long. I hate that I have to do things that I don't want to do, give up things I don't want to give up. More than anything I hate that she has taken away my best friend in the world and the one person I trusted more than any other.
I know the feeling…..HATE though is so closely related to LOVE. You can only HATE what you are ATTACHED TO. Once you really DETACH….your hate will turn to indifference.
Some days are so much harder than others, usually because I'm reacting to something my W has said or done that shows just how much she has changed from the person I loved so much.
OR because you really have not detached enough.
So, today I applied for a couple new "jobs", back to working for someone else I guess.
Sorry about the job sitch dude. Good luck finding something else. Stay positive. A lot of times, one door closes and a better door opens.
Hey eric,
OK, a lot here......
Yeah, I may not be totally used to it but I get that the "betrayal" thing is likely to keep happening. As far as feeling compassion, it's hard, as when I do I find it hard to do what I think is best for me. It's hard doing something that someone you are feeling compassionate towards will fight you on and already made clear that they will not want to do. Not impossible but up until now I've let my compassion get in the way of what is best for me. That's why I made a choice to try and turn off the empathy at least when dealing with the D. It doesn't mean I don't have compassion towards other things that may be going on with her.
I really have dropped the expectations. Even though I don't expect anything in return, it still shows me how far my W is from being able to have any kind of decent R even if just for our D's that she is still unable to even acknowledge something I do that she would be grateful for from anyone else. No expectations but also the lack of anything tells a story as well.
I really held on to hope for as long as I could. I just don't think hope is justified, not because of my thoughts or feelings but because of my W's actions and words. Besides holding out hope leads to things like expectations. If you have no hope, you can't have any expectations either.
The part about when her father dies was in answer to a question (I think it was Wonka, maybe job?) about her having a really hard time when he dies and if I would be able to be there for her or not. I actually agree with you that not only can't I have any positive or negative effect, it's no longer my place. If things were different and we were still (really) married, I would be there for her as a sounding board, a steady hand, etc. All the things that H/W's do for each other during times of grief and pain. I just don't think she will want that from me and even if she did, I don't think she would allow it. She is the kind of person who will stubbornly refuse to allow herself to change her mind once she has made it up. Sure, she changed her mind about her M but now that she did, she will fight anything that may make it seem like that choice was wrong. Especially after ignoring her mother, her relatives, her friends telling her that she needed to slow down and at least give it a chance. She would lose face and that is something she will never allow to happen.
Again, anything I do that may help her out I do only because it's the right thing to do and I would do for a close friend. I expect nothing in return. It just is telling that even if I don't expect anything in return, the fact is that she can't even seem to appreciate it. Shows just how bad things still are in her mind, nothing more.
I know my W didn't try. In fact, she made herself NOT try. Not because I didn't get what I wanted at all. If she had tried at all and it still failed, I would feel differently about the whole sitch. Her first sentence on B-day was "I want a D and I have no intention of even trying to fix things between us". She refused to do MC, she refused to do any number of things that might of made a difference (this was before I knew anything about MLC so I thought that the usual things had a chance to work). She even admits that she didn't try. She has said that why bother when the problem is she just that she no longer feels the "right kind" of love for me? She said she either feels it or not and she doesn't, end of story. Oh, she said she feels "love" for me but "There are many kinds of love...". Believe me, I don't need to get things "my way" or nothing. I'm sure there is always a middle ground. Our M just wasn't important to my W anymore. At least not as important as her having a chance at having a great R with her father before he dies. Again, she actually said this, not mind reading. I think that (and this is just speculation) for a long time she was feeling like she wasn't "happy". She wanted "more" of something. I couldn't "make" her happy even though I did try. She started to drift away from our M and our F and looked to her job and her "friends" for what was missing. She enjoyed being away on business and taking care of only herself (again, she told me this) and didn't "miss" me when she was gone. To her that meant she didn't "love" me because if she did she would miss me (yes, she said this). At the same time, she also knew that D wasn't something you just did. She had told herself she would never get D without trying everything she could to make the M right. So, when she made up her mind to say to me "I want a D" that was it. She had to build a wall around her and not wavier. (She often talked about that wall. Saying that what I was saying made sense but it was too late since she put up this wall between us and can't let me back in).
Yes, I still need work on detaching for sure. I'm getting there on expectations. One step at a time. Right now I really need to think about me and what I'm going to do with my life and getting a new job. Trying to stay positive! Thanks eric, you really make many great points.
Hello everyone,
So, today I got word that the office is back up and running. It came too late for me to go in the office (i work 1.5 hours away) but at least I know it will be back up in the AM tomorrow. I am going to keep actively looking for a new position and at the same time try and get some money from this job. I can't live like this any more, not knowing what will happen next. I hate it. I will say I can see how since my W over the years never wanted to know what was going on with the finances, she could have felt out of "control" when it came to money. Since I was in sales, I never had a "steady" income. When I got paid it was a large sum but sometimes it was a long wait between pay checks and we would need to be careful. I'm not saying it was all my fault as my W could have taken a more active role in our finances but I also could have kept her more aware myself. I also think after her depression, I tried to "shield" her from the hard times and that was a mistake on my part. See, I am learning more about my part in all this mess!
Right now I must think only about how I can make my life better and right now that means income. It will give me a chance to stop thinking about my M or D (although I do need to see my lawyer Monday and it probably won't be good news from the sound of his voice when we spoke) but I can't let that trump doing what I need to make my life work.
So, I'll be looking for more places to send my resume today and try and stop worrying. So far God has provided when I needed it most as long as I did my part. Time to do my part in spades!
Matt
As far as feeling compassion, it's hard, as when I do I find it hard to do what I think is best for me. It's hard doing something that someone you are feeling compassionate towards will fight you on and already made clear that they will not want to do. Not impossible but up until now I've let my compassion get in the way of what is best for me. That's why I made a choice to try and turn off the empathy at least when dealing with the D. It doesn't mean I don't have compassion towards other things that may be going on with her.
As you mentioned hard is not impossible. I totally understand why you feel the way you do. It’s like you try and pet a dog who is wagging his tail at you, you give him a treat, he keeps wagging his tail and then as you go to pet him – he bites. I get it. What works for me was REALIZING and ACCEPTING that even though I was not “legally” divorced I actually was divorced. At least divorced emotionally. So I approached the legal divorce as a business transaction. So as long as you are not allowing the anger to drive what you do in the legal divorce process…you will be okay.
Even though I don't expect anything in return, it still shows me how far my W is from being able to have any kind of decent R even if just for our D's that she is still unable to even acknowledge something I do that she would be grateful for from anyone else. No expectations but also the lack of anything tells a story as well.
Far may be an understatement. She may NEVER be able to have a civil and decent R with you. I hope she will but no one knows expect her. Believe it or not…this is one of the biggest lessons I think we need to learn. That we, our love, our actions……can never really control another. Your W, right, wrong or indifferent can be who ever it is she wants to be. Just like you. So you can choose to be honorable, honest, fair, firm, even if she is not – cause the only person that controls you is you. Another lesson here is …is trying to figure out who you really want to be – when faced with someone who is crazy. Do you want to be the type of person that respond in the same way they do to you OR do you want to respond in a manner that is consistent with who YOU want to be. The third lesson is “accountability and ownership” – yep. YOU own HOW your respond. A lot of times we give ourselves excuses. For example – my ex may do something that really pisses me off. I COULD (but choose not to) call her up and scream and insult her because I was angry. Ya see…we can use someone else’s actions to tell ourselves that we are justified in how we respond. IMO, we own how we respond and therefore we can choose to respond differently.
I really held on to hope for as long as I could. I just don't think hope is justified, not because of my thoughts or feelings but because of my W's actions and words. Besides holding out hope leads to things like expectations. If you have no hope, you can't have any expectations either.
1) No hope IMO equals no life. Hope exist just because it does. It should not be based on anything that you see or expect.
2) I personally believe that maybe it was fear that had you holding on as long as you did. I am not sure it was hope. Then again, I am not you so I may be wrong.
3) You have looked at your W actions as an indication of who she is, which is understandable. Have you ever considered separating her actions from who she is? Do you think that SHE your W is BAD or is it her actions that really suck?
She is the kind of person who will stubbornly refuse to allow herself to change her mind once she has made it up.
Another reason for compassion. Imagine how messed up it is to go through life unable to change due to stubbornness? Kinda sad if ya ask me. Compassion FTR, does not mean that you open your wallet and hand everything over. For example…I have a lot of compassion for my ex. I do not like her actions. I try as much as possible not to speak with her. I do not want her in my life. Yet…I can still be compassionate towards her……compassion with a distance. Living this way has allow my heart to heal and not hold on to the anger.
Sure, she changed her mind about her M but now that she did, she will fight anything that may make it seem like that choice was wrong. Especially after ignoring her mother, her relatives, her friends telling her that she needed to slow down and at least give it a chance. She would lose face and that is something she will never allow to happen.
See that up there ^^^^ that is “attachment”. You have not truly detached yet. Until you do…you will remain angry. Why? Cause you keep looking at her vs looking at you and living YOUR life.
I know my W didn't try. In fact, she made herself NOT try. Not because I didn't get what I wanted at all. If she had tried at all and it still failed, I would feel differently about the whole sitch. Her first sentence on B-day was "I want a D and I have no intention of even trying to fix things between us". She refused to do MC, she refused to do any number of things that might of made a difference (this was before I knew anything about MLC so I thought that the usual things had a chance to work). She even admits that she didn't try. She has said that why bother when the problem is she just that she no longer feels the "right kind" of love for me?
Allow me to show you something…….
Can you please email me tomorrow’s winning lottery numbers for the Texas state drawing.
Okay…your probably like WTF…..
Can you tell me what your W is thinking right now?
Can you tell me what the CT Powerball winning numbers are for tomorrow?
My point.
You THINK you know what you wife is feeling and thinks. Yes yes she said this and said that. Is your wife in MLC? Well then….believe none of what they say and half of what they do. What I think is that you FEEL like she did not try as hard as you did.
Here is another lesson…… Can Matt make choices for himself? Yes. Can Mrs Matt make choices for herself? Yes. Do the two choices have to be the same? No. They can be different choices Matt. It is everyone God given right. The power of Choice.
Also, although your W said she would not try….she may feel like she already did Matt. She may feel like she did everything she could have done. So she gave up. Once again her choice.
Did it suck for you…for the kids… YEP. Does it always have to suck? NOPE.
Learning that everyone has a free will to make the choices that they feel they need to make is a HARD lesson to grasp.
Letting go with Love Matt…..is hard.
You do not have to agree with her choices.
You do not have to bend over and hand her everything.
You do not have to keep trying this or that to fix this.
You do not have to like her Matt.
You do not have to respect her or her choices Matt.
The only thing you need to do is figure out who you want Matt to be.
He could be angry, he could be a victim, he could be a martyr, he could be a LBS forever, he could be a divorcee, he could be a greedy pita OR
He could be someone that acts with integrity, with honor, could be someone that finally accepts that the only person he can control is himself. Could be a man that stands in the face of adversity and continues to live his life based on his moral and his principals while RESPECTING others – even when he himself does not agree with them. He can be happy and filled with love and compassion.
At the end of the day Matt – YOU choose to stand for your M. YOU choose to give it all you have. Now maybe it is time for you to stand up and become all that you want to be.
Then again….what do I know…these are just words on a screen….or are they?
God Bless,
Eric
Really good post Eric. Matt, I know how painful and hard this is for you, I am so sorry you have to go through this. Your wife does not define you and who you are. Don't give her that power. You can't control her or her actions. At the end of the day, look in the mirror and like who you see. Be proud. It takes a really good man to stand the way you have.
Matt,
That is some amazing advice. I understand how hard it is to let go, but Eric has given you some nuggets of knowledge. Read it and then re-read it and read it again. Let it sink in. This is a long hard journey, but it needs to be for you.
Matt,
You've received some excellent advice. I know you have lots on your plate( it's a platter by now) so hang in there. You are a good guy and things will get better!
Focus on you and your Ds. Be their rock!
Matt,
I'm sorry things continue to get muddy in your sitch. I follow your threads, but rarely have any wisdom to contribute. I'm here in spirit, and support for you.
I would love nothing more than to see you come through this as a happy, healthy, secure man. You already have such great qualities going for you. It's especially clear in the way you care for your family. Also, I read somewhere that the amount of pain felt can be directly proportionate to the amount of love that was there. That's speaks volumes.
Your thread has become a "Hall of Fame" of vets!! I am learning so much through this. Thank you for continuing to post, and stagger along with the rest of us.
Keep going, Matt. I know you'll get there.
Hi GB and everyone,
My D14 called in tears this morning asking me to take her to school as her mom can't for some reason. Unfortunately she called late and although I told her I would try my best to get there in time, by the time I left, she was worried I wouldn't make it and decided to walk. I told her I would look for her when I got in the area. I looked but she wasn't anywhere. Then I got a text saying she was already at school. Also on Monday and Tuesday I couldn't pick her up because of work problems. I feel really badly that I can't be there for her but I can only do so much. I really hate that she has been caught up in all this mess but everyone has to learn and adapt to this new way of life.
I haven't been this down in a while and it's because I need money so badly. Not only that, just when I really needed to bring some in, I couldn't even try as the office systems were down because of another person I trusted not doing what they should. The only good thing that I can see from all this is that now I know that I have no choice and must find a new job. I guess that there's nothing about my old life that will remain after all is said and done. It wasn't perfect but there were good points, great memories made, many accomplishments I can look back on and be proud of.
Eric talked about being a "man of integrity", doing the right thing, etc. I have honestly tried to be that kind of man, in every aspect of my life from business to my M. The thing is the definition of "right thing to do" has become so fluid. What is the "Right" thing? I never expected to be rewarded for doing things the honest, right way. In fact it has cost me in the past in many ways. I could have made a lot more money in the business I'm in if I was willing to compromise my values. I have seen many people who have lied, cheated done things that hurt others to make their lives better, prosper. If I had been willing to do things that way I could have made a lot more money, had a more "comfortable" life but I also wouldn't have felt good about what I accomplished either. It just seems that less and less people seem to understand that honesty and integrity are good things. It just seems that all around me those willing to be selfish and underhanded are winning while those of us that want to do things the "right" way are getting the short end of the stick. It doesn't mean I will stop and join them. It's just that it's getting harder to make it and at the same time live a life that you can be proud of.
While I was M the right thing was so clear. Self sacrifice for the good of the family as a whole. Compromise, not being selfish, supporting my W and kids in the things that mattered and were important to them. Forgiving the small hurts and not keeping a "record" of all the little ways that your S had let you down. At the same time understanding that there were times that I made mistakes and fell short and trying to make those things right or at least learn from them and not let it happen again. Treat my W the way that I would want her to treat me. I really tried to live this way and it worked for a long time. Now I just am so confused as what the "right" thing to do is. Leave her totally on her own and just not care? Just get out of her way and say "That's what she says she wants so..". Being "friendly" is seen as "pressure" but being unfriendly isn't the right way to go. It's easy to say "treat them like a neighbor or roommate' but doing things that I would do for a neighbor or roommate are seen as "pursuit" by my W so, again, that's "pressure". At the same time I can't do the things that she wants from me for lack of funds and at the same time I need to take care of myself first now. At the same time my W is doing things that actually can have very big negative effects on my life and make doing what I need to do even harder, saying one thing and doing another, etc. It's just so hard to figure out what is "right" and what isn't.
The one thing that I can say about Eric's very good post is that I didn't stand out of "fear". I stood because I saw the person I have loved for so long and through so much in obvious pain and crisis. I saw her not sleeping, losing weight to the point of looking anorexic, acting crazy, seeing only the bad in almost everyone and everything in her life except her father and her work. I saw her blaming me and her M as a coping thing, a way to explain why she was so unhappy. If her reasons and spews made any sense, were coherent that would be a different matter. I stood because I made a promise that I would be there in good times and bad, to death do us part and this is definitely a "bad" time for her. I didn't promise only if she felt the same or only if she still feels love towards me. I stood because I would hope that the person I M would have stood for me if I was going through a crisis like my W is. I stood for all the ways that my W loved me for so many years and I loved her in return. Because she is the mother of my children and I appreciate that she choose to have them with me. So many reasons, none of which is fear. Fear of what? I know in the end I can take care of myself. I know that even without my w I will have a great R with my kids. For the last several years I took care of almost every aspect of running the family so I know I can handle that. I'm not afraid that I will spend the rest of my life alone as I get along well will other people and am not intimidated by women or think that no one will "love" me again. Nor am I afraid of living alone which can actually be nice at times. No, not fear.
You are so right that I MUST concentrate on taking care of me and my D's to the best of my ability. To leave my W on her own to make it (or not) on her own. Would I prefer to have her come through this crisis and see that maybe she made a mistake? Sure, that would be nice but I don't "need" her to. Who am I to say it's a "mistake" for her to act the way she is, make the choices she is making? Well, I know that she is acting in a way that, for most of her life she wouldn't think of. I know that she is hurting people that she does care about whether she see's it or not. I know that much of what she is doing is seen by others, people that I know care about her, as "crazy". She has made the choice to live her life the way she is. To abandon her old life and push me out. That's her choice and she can make it. I don't need to think it's a "good" choice or one that is honorable or moral. I would feel the same way if someone I knew made the choices she has in their life. To decide that M vows are meaningless or don't matter. It just doesn't fit with the person she was for so many years (most of them happy years, whether or not she can remember the happy times or not). I don't have to like the choices my w is making or even the kind of person she is being right now to still love the person she was and may still be if she can get through the crisis she is in. May never happen, I get that. But I won't choose to hate her for it either.
Thanks shining!
I'm going to keep staggering along for sure. I just need to stop worrying and take more action. I need to make today an action day! I do also realize that once I get through the hard parts, things will probably get easier. I just have to push through those hard parts!
Thanks for your support, it does help!
Matt
What is the "Right" thing?
Guess what? You decide that for YOU. My own personal rule of thumb…. When you can look at yourself in the mirror when no one is around and just KNOW you did the right thing…..well then…you did the right thing.
I have honestly tried to be that kind of man, in every aspect of my life from business to my M
And this is all that matters…that you know in your heart that you being the best man you can be. On a personal note, one of the things that I have learned FOR MY LIFE…is that if I am very very angry….then I do not make choices that are consistent with who I am. I tend to make them in anger – even if that anger is directed at myself. So I guess the only advice I can give you Matt – is to let go of the anger and do not let it change YOU.
I am sorry about the financial difficulties. Have faith in yourself and stay positive. It will get better. It will.
I just have to push through those hard parts!
BINGO – no way “around it”…the only way…is through it! Oh…and Matt……. YOUR DOING IT MAN! I see how hard you are trying….I apologize if I am being to hard on ya.
The one thing that I can say about Eric's very good post is that I didn't stand out of "fear". I stood because I saw the person I have loved for so long and through so much in obvious pain and crisis. I saw her not sleeping, losing weight to the point of looking anorexic, acting crazy, seeing only the bad in almost everyone and everything in her life except her father and her work. I saw her blaming me and her M as a coping thing, a way to explain why she was so unhappy. If her reasons and spews made any sense, were coherent that would be a different matter. I stood because I made a promise that I would be there in good times and bad, to death do us part and this is definitely a "bad" time for her. I didn't promise only if she felt the same or only if she still feels love towards me. I stood because I would hope that the person I M would have stood for me if I was going through a crisis like my W is. I stood for all the ways that my W loved me for so many years and I loved her in return. Because she is the mother of my children and I appreciate that she choose to have them with me. So many reasons, none of which is fear. Fear of what? I know in the end I can take care of myself. I know that even without my w I will have a great R with my kids. For the last several years I took care of almost every aspect of running the family so I know I can handle that. I'm not afraid that I will spend the rest of my life alone as I get along well will other people and am not intimidated by women or think that no one will "love" me again. Nor am I afraid of living alone which can actually be nice at times. No, not fear.
^^^THAT, in my book, is the "Right" thing.
Very well stated Matt, and I feel the same way.
You are a man of true integrity who has shown much love for his wife. No one can EVER take that from you.
Thanks guys, I REALLY needed to hear that tonight.
Hi Matt. Just wanted to give you a shout out. Been quite busy, but didn't want you to think I forgot about you. Sorry if I haven't been supportive, but know that I am thinking of you and know you are getting stronger as you weed your way through this. Hope you are well.
Hey Matt,
Sorry to hear about your d's trouble this morning. I know you feel that you've let her down, but a couple months ago you made the comment on how your d couldn't see the true w. Sadly she is experiencing what you did but didn't want her to experience.
Continue to be strong for her and your other d. They need that stable person in their lives. You are doing the best you can with what you've been dealt. You'll survive.
What are you doing for yourself this weekend?
Thanks Mighty and Ats!
I understand you have had much to deal with lately M. I'm so sorry to read about your friend from work. You never really know what life has in store for you. Last year someone my W worked with (wasn't a friend, someone from another dept.) died in a house fire not far from our home. I remember my W saying "When she woke up that morning she had no idea that it was going to be her last day alive". I actually think, in her MLC state, it was another reason for her to go. She seems to feel that time is running out for her and if she doesn't start doing everything she wants "right now" she will never get to do it.
Hi Ats! You're right about my D14. I actually think it's worse for D19 because her mom has pretty much stopped caring. D19 has told me that when she calls to talk to her mom my W only will talk for a min or two and then say "I have to go" every time. She said when she calls me we always talk for a long time and I am interested in her life but her mom doesn't even bother to care. It's so sad for not only D19 but my W. You know that some day she is going to regret being this way now. She is acting like her father acted towards her most of her life and it really hurt her. She just can't see it right now.
As for this week end I'm not sure. I probably will spend much time on trying to find a new job and watching football on Sunday. It's so hard when you have NO money, and I will have D14 starting Sunday and I will need to be able to feed her and get her to school, etc. Ugh! So very hard!!
Thanks guys, I REALLY needed to hear that tonight.
Anytime...anytime.
Several poster know how to reach me off boards...so if you ever need me, just give me a shout out.
Peace,
Eric
Matt,
Keep going...one foot in front of the other...and repeat.
Have you thought about dusting off your "Roldex" and reconnecting with your former supervisors/colleagues to drum up some leads for job prospects. In fact, 80% of the jobs are not advertised at all. I'm the living proof of this statistic...almost all of my jobs have been through networking.
Oh and one other thing. The best time to get a job is while you're still employed.
Think about that one, Matt.
Thanks Wonka,
Yes, I have dusted off the old rolodex but haven't had much luck. I will definitely keep at my current place while looking. Always the chance that I will make a few sales before I find another job.
Had an interesting time while updating my resume. I did get experience in a lot of different aspects of running a business. At least I can take that away from it. I guess I'll never know how much all this MLC chit interfered with my making this work. Of course it is my fault for reacting the way I did and not my W's for actually going through her crisis. In the end it was always my choice how I reacted.
Thanks for stopping by!
Matt, your post made me smile....
You sound great....it seems you're on the path upward.
Job hunting isn't fun...I'm there, too.
Have a great weekend!
Hi Matt,
Just dropped by as I typically do to catch up on some posts. I see you are moving on bit by bit. That's wonderful Matt - am happy for you! (after such a long haul, good that you are using what you have left FOR YOU!!) I am trying re $$ as well, nothing yet but it keeps me 'engaged' on some level. You received wonderful advice that is applicable also for many of us.
Great reading & 're reading' material 
Won't be around as much, but wanted to stop by 2 see how you were. So much will fall into place eventually. I also know that your Ds will remember all that you are doing 4 them /have gone through. They are young, but growing emotional maturity is 'around the corner'& they will remember. All the best - keep doing for YOU Matt. Things will work out! Take care, pb
Hey Matt. You are sounding good, stronger, steadier.
When I was going through all of this, I made a roadmap of what I wanted to see when I looked back at this time. It was very important to me.
I wanted to see I had acted with dignity, courage, honor and strength. I wanted to know that I did nothing to hurt my son's relationship with his father. It was theirs to forge, but, I did not want to cause any harm to it. I wanted to know that I honored my marriage no matter what the end result would be.
Whenever I wasnt sure of how to act, I looked to my roadmap. Sometimes I made it, sometimes I didnt, but that was always the goal.
Doing the right thing never means at the expense of you. It means that you can look at your actions and not be ashamed of them. It means that you act from a place of strength, not fear or anger.
This crisis happened. It was destined. Nothing you could have done or said could have changed its course. We just dont have that kind of power.
Sometimes stuff happens in life. But how we deal with it..makes all the difference.
The fact that you came to this site..says a lot about you. Most people cut their losses and run.
The fact that you got some 2 x 4's and still came back...says a lot, too.
We can only do the best we can...and hope that peace comes from knowing we did.
Thanks pbetra,
It's always great to hear from you.
So, saw my W today when I picked up D14. My lawyer has been wanting to see me in his office but he had to cancel the last 2 times so it's been a couple weeks. I do have an appt. for tomorrow morning after I drop off D14 at school. Well, as I was about to get my D and go my W says "Hey, when are you going to see your lawyer?". I looked at her and said "Actually I go see him tomorrow". She then said (in a very sweet voice) "Good, I really want to speed things up". I just smiled and said "Don't worry, you'll get what you want soon" and left it at that. She thanked me for meeting her and left.
This makes me wonder what the heck is happening. How does she even know I'm supposed to go see my lawyer? I'm thinking that it's going to be some kind of "final offer" type of thing since I responded to her last "offer" that basically said how lucky I am that she would "allow" me to stay in our home until D14 turns "18 and a day" and she gets to keep all the retirement, 401K's, HSA money and also the antiques we bought together. My response was that was unfair, that the value of the house now is not much and that by only allowing me to stay there I would need to do many upgrades to sell it and even just stay living there and that whatever money I put out to get the house to the point where it will sell shouldn't be included in her share of the proceeds when it gets sold. I really think that's fair. It's not punitive at all towards her and she gets more than I do in the end.
I have a feeling that this is the end of the process and my M is going to be over in the next week to 10 days. It does make me sad, even though I knew it was inevitable. I'll never understand my W's MLC and why the only answer she has to be happy is ending our 26 year R (21 years M). I really want to have one last talk with her though. I would like her to know that while I don't think D is the answer, I don't hate her. That I really do hope she finds whatever it is she is so badly missing in her life. We haven't been alone a single moment since she left. Of course, I don't have any idea what she is thinking now that she is gone. Whether she is happier or not, it's all she hoped it would be or not. I don't think it matters, don't get me wrong. Just something I'm curious about.
The only R talk we had since she left was the time, 2 weeks after she left, where she freaked out about my asking to keep an antique clock and she ran around the house yelling about how she "had to leave" because she had to sleep on the couch for months, then went on a general spew. I have not once brought up anything. As far as she knows, I am wanting a D as much as she does. I don't know. I guess I'm wondering if there would be anything to gain by talking to her before the D is "final" or not.
I'm actually a little surprised that I'm feeling as sad as I am knowing she is in such a big hurry to get the D over with. It's not like I didn't know it's what she wants. Maybe because it's so "final' once it's at that point, I really don't know. Oh, well. I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I the meantime I'm still needing to find a new job, make some money, etc. No rest for the wicked!
Oh, my w posted something on Facebook yesterday that I saw (we are still "friends"). It was a letter my D14 wrote as a school assignment. She was told to write a letter to someone she "admires". She wrote it to her grandmother, W's real mother. She talked about how much she appreciated her and all she has done for her, etc. I know my D14 is sad about her mom treating her fathers OW as her "new mom" and as said how upset her GM would be if she knew. My W posted the letter and said how proud she was of her D14. I wish my W could see how the way she has been treating her mom like she 's a pain and her "step-mom" (is that the right thing to call her now that W is almost 50 years old?) like she is the smartest most wonderful person she knows makes her mom feel. Not my sand box though. At least my D14 knows all that she has done for all of us (she said in the letter how she is always so good to "every member of my family" which I think is about me!) and shows her how much she cares. She is such a great kid.
Thanks uR, that really means a lot, more than I think you can ever know!
Matt,
You sound better. I understand your sadness and I have an opinion on a R talk with your w (gosh of course I have an opinion on this:) As far as chatting with your wife, that's your call although I think just being cordial and being pleasant during interactions will show her you don't hate her. Honestly, she may not even think about how you feel about her at this juncture as it may be too early for her. Give her time. I'm sure others have more wisdom. I guess I'm saying don't force a talk on an irrational person. Regardless of what you say. Remember the audience.
Good luck on the job hunt. Wonka is right- lots of hidden jobs out there.
Hi Matt...
You are such a nice person... she is a fool.
All I can offer is hugs... u know that.
I am curious to what G'belle is suggesting...
Matt,
I agree w/Georgiabelle. You can't have a rational conversation w/an irrational thinking person who is operating on pure emotions at this time. Being cordial and pleasant during your interactions will show her that you actually do not hate her, but it also shows her that you aren't going to lower yourself to the level she is at currently.
I know you are hurt, disappointed, angry (at times) and most of all frustrated, but until this woman burns herself out emotionally and sees that you are not the enemy, she's going to continue to act out and more so especially if you push or react in a negative way to her behavior.
You've come a long way and I've been impressed at how far you've come since your dark days when joining the forum. I know you'll find the job that will keep you busy and challenge you. Continue to send out those resumes and when you least expect it, the job will appear. Stay positive and continue moving forward.
^^^^^Matt, listen to Job and GB. You can do this. And, the perfect job will show up...just keep praying and envisioning what will work for you. :-)
Matt, step back for a second.
"Good, I really want to speed things up".
She knows because her lawyer talks to her and has an idea why your lawyer hasn't sent anything over. BUT. When it comes to negotiations, that's exactly what you want her to feel like.
If she wants to hurry, she'll need to meet your terms. Not what you've said in the past, but your terms. She can burn a bunch of money on a lawyer or get money from you via stocks, house, etc. It's a trade off. (be wary of dealing with irrational people here) Re-think what you are willing to give up and what you are willing to dig in and fight for.
You can't stop her from doing what she is doing. You can't. You can wish her well and go live your life. But you can do things now that will keep you from looking back and thinking you should have done this, or should have done that...
She's desperate to get it over with? Why do you need to be in a hurry if you aren't getting what you (reasonably) want from the ordeal?
My $0.01 worth.
AJ
I really want to have one last talk with her though. I would like her to know that while I don't think D is the answer, I don't hate her. That I really do hope she finds whatever it is she is so badly missing in her life. We haven't been alone a single moment since she left. Of course, I don't have any idea what she is thinking now that she is gone. Whether she is happier or not, it's all she hoped it would be or not. I don't think it matters, don't get me wrong. Just something I'm curious about.
Be true to yourself, Matt. If, after all considerations, a talk is something you feel you need for YOU, then do it. No sense in having regrets down the road, ya know? Just don’t have any expectations that it will change things or mean much to her. It very well may make you feel better though.
Wow, it feels good when all my peeps show up with such great advice! GB, job, AJ, FY, new New Yorker Heather, even MM! So glad to have all of you in my life. I never would have gotten to know any of you except for this rotten sitch, always some good in every bad!
I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. I guess I'll know more once I see my lawyer. D14 is with me this week and I was going to have to take her to school and come back 30 miles to see him but my D is not feeling well so now I don't need to get her to school. My glasses broke yesterday! Just snapped in half. Now I don't have the money to get new ones. Lucky for me, I don't need them except for distance and I actually pasted my driving test without them but I don't like to drive without them. I tried to repair them but no use. Just another small irritation.
I was thinking today about M. Not just mine but M is general. It occurred to me that whether or not you have a "good" or "bad" M is entirely up to you. Right now there are people whose S hits them or belittles them every day but if you were to ask them if they have a good M they would say yes, they do. Even if you were to point out that hey, this person treats you badly, they would defend them and maybe say something like "Yes, but he/she really does love me" or "Oh, that's my fault, if I were a better S they wouldn't have to do that". Just like so many things in life it's how YOU look at things that make something "good" or "bad". Especially when there isn't any overt abuse, when all that is going on is the little every day problems that would be there whether you were M or not.
It's ALWAYS a choice YOU make to see your M, your job, your home, your kids, really any part of your life (heck, your life in general) as either good or bad. We can choose to be happy even when things aren't going our way or choose to be unhappy even if they are. No one has the power to make any other person "feel" happy. The exact things that my W says are reasons why she needs to leave our M are the exact things that some other person would love to have someone willing to do for them, that would "make" them happy. It's truly up to each person to decide for themselves whether they are happy or unhappy. Have a great life or an awful one. Appreciate that they have someone in their life that loves them or look at that person as "in their way" from finding "joy". This is especially true when there isn't a OP in the picture. I guess if you are unhappy with your life and meet someone who "makes" you feel infatuation, you can start to think that your S is in your way, that this OP is the answer to true happiness. Stupid and in 99.999% of cases not at all a way to find lasting happiness but someone in crisis could think that way.
No, I guess I'm just realizing that my W made the choice to have the M she did. It was always up to her if she had a good M or bad one. The thing is that goes the same for us LBS's. WE have the choice to see our lives as "good" or "bad" now that our S's have run away. We have the same choice now that we did in our M. I always choose to see my M as good. To see my W as the good person who I loved, warts and all as they say. I could have looked for only the bad. Saw things she did or said that weren't positive, M enhancing things as "making' our M "bad". But instead I tried to understand that no one is perfect, we all make mistakes or act badly sometimes. Even when she was depressed and was doing things almost every day that made things harder, I "choose" to see that as part of her depression and not a reason for me to want to end our M.
So, now that my M is ending, I still have the same choices I have always had. I can choose to see my life as "bad", my W as "bad" or I can choose to see that my life is going to be as good as I see it as being. That my W is still the same person she always was (although acting quite differently) and isn't "bad" or "good"...she just is who she is. It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
Matt
Just stopping by to offer my .02 cents….
I just smiled and said "Don't worry, you'll get what you want soon"
That ^^^ is still your hurt speaking. Chances are you are gonna feel this for a while – hence limit your conversation and your words. IMO, it is also on some level an expectation. The faster you lose the expectations, the faster you will really begin to feel better.
I really want to have one last talk with her though. I would like her to know that while I don't think D is the answer, I don't hate her. That I really do hope she finds whatever it is she is so badly missing in her life.
The talk you want to have is….imo, an expectation again. It could also be your way of closure. I think ya need to do what YOU feel you need to do – with no expectations. Think about it…… chances are you want to say this so that on some level she realizes you’re a nice guy and that you understand. The problem I see, is that chance are she will not see or if she does, she will not tell you. So you may walk into a sitch EXPECTING her to say she is sorry, confused, whatever…and then you may feel worse if she doesn’t. Make sense? That said, you know yourself better than any of us, if you feel you need to have the convo for YOU – then go for it.
Maybe because it's so "final' once it's at that point, I really don't know.
About the only thing that is final is death. She may wake up next week, next year, 30 years from now…or never. My point is to try and train your mind to really just live in the moment. Just take things one day at a time.
My glasses broke yesterday!
I have actually seen glasses deals on Groupon…so ya may want to check the site. Maybe you can find a place by you that has a discount.
Just like so many things in life it's how YOU look at things that make something "good" or "bad".
Very good perspective! Very good. Your W can rewrite history…you do not though.
It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
I am smiling ear to ear reading this Matt. You are spot on….it is always YOUR choice. So IMO, I say choose happiness. Oh…and two other things….. this whole process, has and will always be about YOU. You Matt and only YOU really decide when the R with your W is over – divorced or not.
Good luck on the job search.
Hey Eric, glad you stopped by!
I really feel that this time it's more about my wanting to just get some things out. Whatever her reaction to those things is really doesn't matter. In fact if I have any expectation, it would be that she won't care or even allow herself to change anything she thinks (actually, not thinks, more "feels") about anything having to do with our sitch. I get what you are saying and in the past I would have expected some kind of reaction but not this time.
So, had my meeting with my lawyer this morning. It actually went better than I thought it would (see, expectations!). The basic thing that is getting in the way of coming to some sort of resolution in our D is this...My W's lawyer is a "friend" of my lawyer. My lawyer says that her L is very good at keeping his clients in check when they are asking for too much. The problem is that my W hasn't been forthcoming with her L about everything that she needs to. Her lawyer had no idea that we have a large number of antiques that need to be divided. He had no idea that my W had been sued for non payment of student loans that she incurred before we were married. As far as her L knew, my W tried to stop me from cashing in my retirement from my job I left BEFORE we were M and that the money was kept separate from our joint accounts when it actually went to pay for living expenses and bills that we incurred together. As far as her lawyer knew, I was getting a sweet deal just being allowed to live in our house until D turned 18 as I never had to make any sacrifice at all. I had a feeling that my W wasn't being totally open about all this. She never even read the last two decrees that were sent to me and seemed surprised about what was in them. I have a feeling that she has allowed her father to take the lead with her D process and he really has no idea what has happened over the last 21 years.
The question now is a simple one....what did I bring into the M that was separate from my W and what did she bring into the M separate from me, assets and debts. Well, I had no debt coming into the M and had almost $50,000 in retirement funds from a job I left before we got M. My W brought only her student loan debt and very little else as she had just graduated a few months before we got M. Her SL debt was large and for all of our M life, we only got half the tax return money we should have because it went to pay off her SL's. I also paid off a lawsuit she had from the college she went to to pay off her debt with them. What he needs from me is a list of what debt she brought into the M, she had no assets like retirement (very small) and what debts and assets I brought into the M. He said that since the M is now ending, I have a legal expectation to recoup what I lost from those amounts. My W is also disputing how much our house is worth right now in the condition it is in. My L said that we can use the county tax assessment for that. It is higher than what we actually could get since it doesn't take repairs into account but is still only $56,000 and change. That would make my W's share $28K. Just half the value of the retirement I cashed in is $23K and that doesn't include the value of the antiques nor the amount of her SL debt we had to pay over the years.
The problem I now have is that I need to find the exact amounts of her student loans and she took all that paperwork with her. Since I never expected to get D'd, I never thought to sit down and add up all the different loans and find a total amount. I guess I'm learning "things to do if I ever get M again"! According to my L he thinks that my W is either naive and just didn't want to give her L any info that isn't a positive for her case or she feels "entitled" to much more than half. He's seen many women especially who get that attitude. (I thought "Yeah, they were probably having an MLC at the time!"). So, now I'm going to need to find a way to get that info. Just what I need, more things on my plate! Oh, well. At least I know that I may have a chance to at least keep my home. We also talked about the fact that my W leaves our D14 alone until late almost every night and he has the same thoughts about that as me, it's a bad idea. Nothing we can do about it unless my D14 is willing to say that she wants to live with me. We also talked about the fact my W moved so far and put D14 in school so far. It may be best for me to sell the house so I could live closer. But that's in future.
So, back to trying to make as much $ as I can and maybe find a better job. One step at a time!
Sound like a very good meeting with the L. I'm happy for ya.
So, now I'm going to need to find a way to get that info.
That's why they call this phase "Discovery"
If you know it's out there, have your lawyer ask for exact amounts. Judges tend to frown on hiding financial numbers.
Thanks Eric!
Drew,
Thanks for the input. He actually said "Hopefully we can get this info without asking for an official "Discovery" from the court". He said that if we did it that way it would cost more and he feels that my W's lawyer will actually be helpful to our case if he can see the numbers from us and my W doesn't dispute them. I think he is trying to stay on good terms with her L and trying to show that we are actually being reasonable. I really think he was surprised that her L had no idea about the antiques or the student loans and lawsuit. He has told me many times that her L is very good and is reasonable and he believes that if we can get her own L to tell her that what we are asking for is reasonable she will be more inclined to listen to him. But, in the end, if I just can't get the info, we do have the ability to make her produce the info.
Ugh!!!! I really, really hate my soon to be ex wife!!!!!
So, today I pick my D up from school and she says she needs to "talk" to me about 2 things when we get home. OK, I have an idea since she's 14 and now in a larger school and I've been through 14 year old D stuff before. I'm thinking that she met a boy. Low and behold, I was right. His name is Cody and he is a grade under her (8th) but he is the same age. They met at the "fair" that she went to last week. He is a football player and is "tall'. Of course I teased her a bit but nothing I didn't expect.
The next thing is where the problem comes in....seems my D wants to live "mostly" with her mom. She said "Dad, you're my favorite parent, it's just that my school and all my friends live around there". I ask what she had in mind and she says "Well, I could spend weekends with you during the school year, I know lots of people who do that". I say that I never liked the 7days/7 days thing as I understand that it's hard, but that was the best we could come up with. I also told her that to be honest, I really don't like the fact that her mother leaves her alone almost every night until 9:00 or later. She said 'I'm a teenager dad, I LIKE not having anyone around". Of course you don't, but it's not what's best for you! I told her that it is easy to get into trouble not on purpose, but things can happen, especially if you have a boyfriend! She, of course defended herself saying she is a good kid (true) and she won't let anything happen. Of course she thinks that, she's 14! I told her that I would have to talk to her mother and Get this, she said "Mom said it was up to you!"!!! Oh, thanks a lot, W. Way to drop me under the bus!
This wouldn't be happening if my W didn't move 30 miles away. If she hadn't refused to send her to the school that she wanted to go to but my W didn't want to be bothered picking her up and taking her to! I should have fought her and stopped her from putting my D in a school so close to her! I hate my W! She destroys her family because she has no coping skills and is a selfish jerk in MLC and now I'm going to lose my D14!! I hate her, I hate her, I hate her! My D19 moved because my W "had" to move away and now this!
I told my D14 that I would try to think of something different. That if I have to I'll sell my house and move to where her mother lives. Gee, another win for the selfish ass that my W has decided she wants to be! My D14 said "I can spend Thanksgiving week and X-mass with you". I tell her no, according to the D decree her mom gets her Thanksgiving this year. My D says "Really? She told me she was going to go spend it with her father". OK, so more proof that she doesn't even bother reading the stuff her lawyer sends to my lawyer! It stated that I get X-mass but she gets Thanksgiving this year. She has no idea because her D14 means NOTHING to her. Why does she even want her if she spends zero time with her?
Why is it that she gets to destroy her family and still get what she wants? My lawyer tells me unless my D says she wants to live with me (which she said she would if I lived as close to her school and friends as her mom does) that there is no way I can get custody. It just won't happen. Even if I can prove that her mom leaves her alone all the time, the court just won't care. Because my 14 year old D "likes" being alone where there is a good chance of trouble happening she will never say she wants to live with me! I hate this.
I really want to call my W and tell her off but of course that won't have any effect. She just doesn't get what damage she has done and is still doing! All of you out there that are upset because your S's don't want to see or have anything to do with their kids, think again! You're lucky! So far, my D14 has had to have ME take her to places to be with her friends as her mom has always been busy and she knows I'l drop what I'm doing and take her. Maybe it's a mistake doing that. I thought it was the right thing to be there for her when she needs me but she doesn't get what living full time with her mom is really going to be like. How will she get the places that she wants to go with her friends? Her mom won't take her, she'll just say what she does now .... "Ask your father"!
I don't need this crap right now! My W s@cks! and doesn't deserve to be a mother to her own kids! She stopped being anything close to a mother a long time ago and now she gets to take my D14 from me except weekends? No F'g way! Ugh!
Anyone have any ideas about how I can fix this without losing the little time I have with my D14 who needs a stable parent in her life more than she ever has before!!
Oh matt, I am so sorry to hear this.
I wish I knew what to say or had some kind of meaningful suggestion that would help you through this. I don't.
If D14 moves in with her mom, would your W actually take her to school or would your D14 need to make arrangements with friends to get her to and from school?
Your W seems very hands off as a parent but I'm not sure that means she doesn't love her daughter. She does seem rather self-involved though.
My concern, which I think echoes your concern, is that D14 being left alone so much will mean her friends and friendships are not being monitored. Alone in a house until 9 pm every night, even for "good kids", is often an opportunity to hang with buddies/boyfriends sans supervision. That would be my biggest concern though, since D is 14, I'm not sure there's much you can do.
I hope someone who has more experience can weigh in.
I'm sorry.
My thoughts exactly Ss,
D14 is a good kid, that's a given. She is sweet and loving and kind but she is also very naive. She has always been in small religious based private school. Her sister got in trouble when she went to just a larger private school. I don't think she is ready to be left alone like she is when with her mother. I re-read my last post and it's angrier than I hoped. I wrote it right after talking to my D14. I don't think my W doesn't love her D's. I just think she is too self involved to be a parent right now. Since she went into her MLC she hasn't been a very good mother at all. For the last year before she left the only talks she had with D14 were her yelling at her over something stupid. When either of our D's wanted to talk to my W, she, 99% percent of the time, would say she was too tired or too busy. She stopped making meals, she didn't do anything with them, she put them last on her list. As far as I can tell nothing much has changed since she left.
This is partly my fault for letting my W have her way and put D14 into a school near her when she moved so far away! I should have fought her, I should have told her it was her choice to move so far, my D isn't going with her. I just wish I could trust my W just a little but I just can't. She has proven over and over again that she can't be trusted, not in the state of mind she is in.
There are no good answers here. At least none that I can see at this point. If I say no to my D14, she will be angry and more inclined to act out. I want to just shake the MLC out of my W. I know it's impossible and just wishful thinking but still.....
I'm good at rambling....I'll try not to....
The "no parent around until 9:00" for a teen? Yeah.... And an angry/emotional teen coping with her parent's D? Just discovering boys? Hmmmm. No brainer for me.
Summed up, if it were me, I would do whatever it took to make sure I was there for D14, even if that meant sell the house to be closer. It would be hard, sentimental value, of course. But you can't get these years back. I doubt you'd regret being there for her. W isn't getting better anytime soon.
Matt, I know you're angry at W. But try not to see it as her "winning", or about her at all. It's about you and D14. And what's best.
You have the chance to be closer, be more available, keep your eye on shenanigans.... your job is up in the air (like mine) which may turn out to be a gift you may not have seen before....
I don't know everything, obviously. But from what I know of your sitch, you as a parent, the turmoil caused by W? The only way of "winning" is doing everything in your power to help D14 succeed in a sh!++y situation.
I would choose to do that.
.
Matt,
Your sitch is moving along and you're getting some great advice from others.
I want to comment on your comments:
It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
My initial thought was: About time! I guess this man takes a bit longer than others to get this. We've been trying to get you to see this for a long, long time.
Now to your new rant about W.
She is not an evil person. Just messed up.
All of those "if she didn't/did...." ? Blah, blah blah.
You MUST deal with the reality on the ground. This means you need to step up and be the stable parent for D14. You are the one to guide her into young adulthood because W is not capable at the moment.
I strongly disagree with your assertion that W doesn't love D. Absolutely false. W does love your daughters. Right now, she's not available nor able to be a mother in the active sense. That svcks big time...I know, I know.
If I say no to my D14, she will be angry and more inclined to act out.
Don't tell me that you're afraid of your own D14??! Are you going to let her lead you by your nose??!! Be her best friend or her parent?
Step up the plate...even if you get spewing from the teenager. It's their God-given right! Every teenager in the world is hard-wired to spew against their "stupid" parents.
Wonka,
Sorry buddy but you misread my post! I said that I'm CERTAIN that my W DOES love her D! Of course she does. I'm not that blind. It's not that I think she is some inhuman monster, like I said while I know she loves her D, she is just so self involved at the moment she can't see how her actions can put her D14 in a dangerous sitch.
My exact quote was "I don't think my W
doesn't love her D's. I just think she is too self involved to be a parent right now".
I'm not "afraid" of my D at all. I've been here before as I have an older D and learned MUCH about how to best handle the 14-16 years. the last thing she needs right now is me telling her that because I don't "trust" her she can't live with her mom. All that will do is make things worse. The harder you try and "control" at this age the more inclined they will be to act out even more. It took me learning the hard way to find that one out. what she 'needs" is a parent that will at least be present, not left alone every day while she is just discovering boys!
Sorry you misread my post Wonka. The 'rant" was just the fact that since her MLC she just hasn't been at all interested in the parenting part of having kids. doesn't mean she doesn't love them just that she's just too into herself to care very much about doing the "work' of being an actual parent. Not a rant, just the cold hard fact.
Matt
The next thing is where the problem comes in....seems my D wants to live "mostly" with her mom. She said "Dad, you're my favorite parent, it's just that my school and all my friends live around there". I ask what she had in mind and she says "Well, I could spend weekends with you during the school year, I know lots of people who do that". I say that I never liked the 7days/7 days thing as I understand that it's hard, but that was the best we could come up with. I also told her that to be honest, I really don't like the fact that her mother leaves her alone almost every night until 9:00 or later. She said 'I'm a teenager dad, I LIKE not having anyone around". Of course you don't, but it's not what's best for you! I told her that it is easy to get into trouble not on purpose, but things can happen, especially if you have a boyfriend! She, of course defended herself saying she is a good kid (true) and she won't let anything happen. Of course she thinks that, she's 14! I told her that I would have to talk to her mother and Get this, she said "Mom said it was up to you!"!!! Oh, thanks a lot, W. Way to drop me under the bus!
Matt, my heart hurts for ya. I’ve been there before. That feeling of getting punched in the GUT. As I read this….some of my past experiences with my kids and my xw came rushing back. The fear, the hurt, the sense of betrayal, the feeling that I did everything right – yet my ex get’s to do whatever it is she wants….and now it impacts my R with my kids. I am sorry for you Matt. Here is what I can tell you…. 1) She is always going to be your D – always. 2) She will come back around..in time 3) all you can continue to do is be her rock. A very similar thing happened between my boys and me, my ex poisoned the chit out of them. At one point, my oldest son did not come over for months and when he did would look at me like he wanted to kill me. So what did I do? I stood…for HIM, for ME. I wanted to quit….many many times, I wanted to beat my ex, I never said anything bad about his mom. Never. I detached from HIM…it was the hardest thing to do. It [censored] big time. Guess what, he figured it out. I gave him the time and the freedom to figure his mom out. I never wanted him to hate her, I never wanted him to not have an R with his mom. I just knew though that his R with his mom was between him and her. I promised myself that at the end of the day…..if he was happy, well then, I would be happy. Isn’t that what we want for our kids, for them to be happy. About a year past, and Jr. started to come around more…..he opened up….he had been poisoned AND he found out the truth. Once he did, all of the anger he had towards me was redirected to his mom. He called her a liar, called her a bad mom, I mean he really let her have it. Believe it or not, as much as I do not like my ex, I felt for my son. He was in pain. He was confused. I brought him to therapy and he worked on it. He learned to forgive his mom. I was proud of him. He spent about a year living mostly with me. In time he really forgave his mom. Fast forward to this year…… my oldest has been home with me for about 2 months now, he has seen his mother maybe 3 days…. As a matter of fact, just the other day he said the following to me: “Dad…ya know I’ve been thinking about this thing with Toria (my daughter an another long story)….ya have to let her figure it out Dad, she has been wanting mom for years now….and now mom is giving her everything she wants… let her….Toria will figure out one day, who the parent is. You see Dad….you and mom switched places after the divorce. You dad…really became the parent….mom…umm…she is all about herself right now. I think though that one day, mom will figure it out and maybe she will change back to being the mom we really loved. I love you dad”.
My point – this is hard chit dude. Really hard. I am going through the same exact thing with my daughter who just hit “woman hood”. All you can do dude, is be the best Dad you can be. The rest leave to God. So as hard as it is……ask yourself….what is the best thing for your daughter. I can tell you that NOT seeing you is not the best….but maybe Matt…..give her the space to figure it out. If I was in your spot, I would agree to see her every weekend. Yes it [censored]. Yes it will take a toll on your personal life. Yes you will feel like your ex “won”…this is not about your ex though…it is about your daughter. You are not going to lose her Matt – you never did. She needs to figure this out herself.
This wouldn't be happening if my W didn't move 30 miles away. If she hadn't refused to send her to the school that she wanted to go to but my W didn't want to be bothered picking her up and taking her to! I should have fought her and stopped her from putting my D in a school so close to her! I hate my W! She destroys her family because she has no coping skills and is a selfish jerk in MLC and now I'm going to lose my D14!! I hate her, I hate her, I hate her! My D19 moved because my W "had" to move away and now this!
I agree, that on some level this is happening because of the divorce – you are going to have to work through the anger dude. It aint easy. If your ex is anything like mine….she will have the chit eating grin…that says….”yep…I won…f you…”. Ignore it brother. Ignore it. It is okay to hate her right now Matt. It really is. In time….the hate will go away…. Do NOT bash your ex – under no circumstance. I am not saying that you should lie for your ex. Nope. Do not offer up any info about your ex…unless your D asks you and even then you need to be age appropriate. Remember…this is not about YOU or YOUR ex…it is about your daughter. Right now you need to think about what your daughter needs. All you can do is be Dad…you cannot fix your ex, you cannot fix this for your daughter…..
And here is the hard part…. “trusting the process”….. yep, trust Matt that you have been a good dad, trust Matt that the seeds that you planted in your daughter will begin to blossom. Trust that no matter how f’ed up your ex is….she will NOT be able to “take your daughter away”.
I told my D14 that I would try to think of something different. That if I have to I'll sell my house and move to where her mother lives. Gee, another win for the selfish ass that my W has decided she wants to be! My D14 said "I can spend Thanksgiving week and X-mass with you". I tell her no, according to the D decree her mom gets her Thanksgiving this year. My D says "Really? She told me she was going to go spend it with her father". OK, so more proof that she doesn't even bother reading the stuff her lawyer sends to my lawyer! It stated that I get X-mass but she gets Thanksgiving this year. She has no idea because her D14 means NOTHING to her. Why does she even want her if she spends zero time with her?
Your ex is lost right now Matt and nothing you say to her is gonna sink in. Nada. Nothing. No matter how you say it. Nothing will get through to her. You see, your ex is living for HER and no one can change that expect HER. If it make sense for you to move, then move, if not, then don’t.
My W s@cks! and doesn't deserve to be a mother to her own kids! She stopped being anything close to a mother a long time ago and now she gets to take my D14 from me except weekends? No F'g way! Ugh!
Yes she does and she will continue to suck as a parent until SHE decides not to. So…post a couple of ideas you have for how you can change the parenting plan. What really works for YOU and YOUR D. Cause your daughter is all that matters.
I am sorry that you are going through this…I know how much it hurts….It will get better – I promise. It just takes time. Maybe…just maybe….you can bring up the idea of therapy for your daughter. Take her to see someone, give her the tools and the forum to really express how she feels. And then….keep loving her….keep telling her your love her….spend as much time with her as you can.
Ya know, one of the things that I have had to learn is that…..as a divorced parent, you want your kids around, you really realize the in many cases your MLC ex is not the best parent…so you try to “fix it”, you want your kids to NOT have to suffer, you try and compensate the guilt you feel by becoming super dad. In the end, you have to stay true to you. You cannot fix everything for yours. You can though show them how to work through stuff, you can let them fall so that they can learn to pick themselves back up.
Consider a rock. A big Rock. Does it move? No. Even in a huge storm…does the rock move? No. Even in a hurricane the rock does not move. Right? No matter what the rock is ALWAYS there….always in the same spot…. YOU Matt need to be your daughters rock right now. Consistent. Never wavering. Never moving. Always there when she needs you. You are the Rock Matt….you are your daughters Rock. She may walk away for a while….for a season….she will come back…she will come back to the rock. Why?
Cause it did not move. It did not crumble…and when the rubber meets the road……it is the rock where she will go.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Eric,
I am a lot less angry now than I was when I posted the first time. I realize that my D14 is just trying to cope with her new life the best way she can. I really don't blame her for wanting to be closer to her new friends. She is at the age where she is wanting to have a social life. In the past when she was at the small, private school, all the parents were very involved in their kids lives. Her friends were all almost like family as I had known them all since they were 6 years old. It was normal for parents to drive all over to take the kids places as everyone lived fairly far from each other as there was no school district and since we lived in the country, everything was a decent distance away. This is the first time where my d can walk to friends houses, places to meet, etc. She doesn't need to rely on her mom to take her everywhere she needs to go. Not only that, when she has needed a ride to get somewhere, she knew she had me to take her and I have. I have sat for hours waiting to pick her up because the drive home was so far but I wanted to be there for her. Even when she was staying with her mom I did this because her mother "couldn't" do it (more like she didn't want to and knew I would).
I know it's not about me or how she feels about me. She loves me, knows how much I care about her. She also knows that she can't count on her mom and it's not like she is wanting to stay with her because she is angry at me or enjoys being with her mother more than with me. To her, living with her mother allows her to have the best of both worlds. She knows that all she has to do is call me and ask for a ride to go somewhere and I'll do it. For her there is no "downside" to living at her mom's house because, at her age, parents are just a distraction from her friends, texting, etc. It won't be until she needs her mom and she's not there and I'm not available that she will understand what the downside really is.
She has been through so much in such a short time. If you were to ask her mother, she would say that D14 is doing "great" and has zero pain or upset from our D. What she doesn't understand is the fact that she wants to be where she has no parents around to get in the way is a bad sign. My W has no idea how D14 actually see's her right now. How upset she is at the way she has been acting towards me, my MIL, her sister. D14 wants to be independent, not just because she's going on 15, but because she has seen that she can't count on her mom, that her world can change overnight without her having any control at all, what happens just because her parent "changes her mind" about wanting to be a family.
The problem is D14 has no idea that she needs to have a parent around to help keep things under control. She really believes that she can handle any situation she may find herself in and doesn't need supervision. Think about it, how different kids at that age will act if they know that a parent is around compared to how they will act if they know that there aren't any parents around and don't need to worry. Add to that that the kids she has been around up until now are all kids she has known since she was 6 years old. All of their parents know each other, are very involved in their kids lives. All of them are very well behaved, come from a private, religious school background. None of them have been around drinking or drugs, don't curse or smoke or anything like that. Here she is going to be around much more "worldly" kids. Kids from much different backgrounds that my D has no idea even exists! She has no idea what can actually happen and that she won't be able to just say to someone "Hey, don't do that" and they will stop what they are doing. It's not D14's fault. She really thinks that is how things work. She has no idea just how sheltered she has been most of her life. This is one of the reasons I felt it was so important that she go to the larger private religious school she was planning on going to until her mother went insane. It would give her a chance to be around more worldly kids but in a more "controlled" atmosphere. When my older D19 got into trouble at this school and a guy she was interested in turned out to be trying to get her to smoke pot, all I had to do was go to the school and he was out and on his way back home by the end of the day. I sure can't do that here. What I don't get is my W saw the same thing I did with our older d. Of course she left it to me to take care of things but she should have seen how much worse it would have been if she was at a public school. I guess she just doesn't care enough.
By the way yes she gave me that chit eating grin last time I saw her. I just didn't know what it was about but knew something was up! She is such a child and i really can't find one redeeming quality in her any more. In the past I was always able to try and only see the good in my w no matter what . Now, I look and just can't find a single good thing about her. She treats her D's like they are just distractions from what she really wants to be doing, treats her own mother like crap and her "step mother" who destroyed her parents m like she was a Goddess. Now I have to find a way to work this sitch with d14 and I know I can't count on her to act like an adult and do what is right or even understand what is right!
I have so much on my plate right now. i keep getting blow after blow and I'm staggering a bit right now. The biggest blow is my d's well being. I have to stand up and do what is right but first I need to think it through and come up with what, exactly, IS right in this sitch! I just don't need this right now. I'll think about it and post some ideas and see what others think. Thanks Eric, you have helped!
Matt
The hardest thing to do is to let our children go. I understand your reservation and concerns. Consider this though....
1) You have planted a solid foundation in your daughter and nothing can take that away.
2) You cannot always shelter them....you need to let them figure it out.
3) How can your daughter ever learn to stand up and or pick herself up if you do not give her room to fall.
4) IMO, your daughter needs to learn about life in a "not so controlled" environment. FTR, I am not saying it is cool that she does drugs, hangs out with boys...NO...what I am saying is that the only way SHE will want to come back is...if you let her go and figure it out.
Matt - I am walking this same path with you...more than you know. I know how much it hurts, I know how much you just want what is best for your little girl. I know how tough it is watching them make mistakes and also watching an ex who is lost in her own world. I've lived this for a long long time. I am trying to save you the hurt.
When you let her go Matt, your daughter that is, you are not just ignoring her, you are not turning away, NO. What you are doing is giving her the space she needs to learn from HER mistakes.
Your daughter is gonna be fine. She has YOU as a DAD and believe it or not, that really is enough. She knows you are her rock. She knows that she can come to you and tell you everything.
If you choose to allow her the room to make mistakes...you'll need a few tools...
1) Text and call her everyday. Daily. No excuses.
2) Weekends she is with you. No if and or buts.
3) She is to let you know where she is going. Even on her mom's day. F' dat you are the responsible parent now.
4) Get to know her new friends. I know they are 30 miles away. No excuse...get to know them.
5) Be present in her life - always.
(((hugs)))
^^^^^^^ Exactly....and beautifully written. I went through that with my oldest, age 15 until 17, and guess what? He is back and we are tighter than ever.
Hey Matt...
I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from huh ???
I also, know exactly what you are dealing with. It is that loss of innocence with them. What was once stable, is no longer...
To add to what the Rican said above...
The way it was explained to me, was that YOU are the enemy right now. Everything that YOU stand for, is the part of her life that she wants to explore.
You can't hold 'em that tight, or you will push her away.
What she wants vs. what she needs, are two very different things, and the tighter that you hold, the more that she is gonna want to find out exactly what those things are.
And as much as you wanna protect her, at some point, you need to loosen the slack a bit, and trust what you have already instilled onto her, and just guide her if and when things go astray a bit...
You need to stay strong within YOURSELF, and allow her to learn these life lessons as they come to her. Not as you protect her from them...
Cause if you are always there to pick her up, she will never learn how to deal with them on her own....
Hell, I still struggle with that greatly. I wanna protect my little girl, and keep her from harm. I just have recently realized that I cannot do that, and I want for her to become self-sufficient in her life. And protecting her, teaches her nothing about that.....
I told Eric the other day, that your Daughter is half you, and half of her Mother. And she knows exactly what your half represents. And with the way that her Mother has changed recently, she NEEDS to find that out too....
Also, HER world has been thrown upside down too, not just you and her Mothers...
She needs an outlet, and time to adjust too...
Stay with her Matt, just step back a bit for now....
Cause if you are always there to pick her up, she will never learn how to deal with them on her own....
And
THAT ^^^^ is what I did with my stbxw through our whole R, and that led where?
Think on that Matt.
And THAT ^^^^ is what I did with my stbxw through our whole R, and that led where?
BINGO!
Hey TS.....ummmm...you sure where not married to the same person
Lol Eric...
This whole realization, about this "protecting" and such that we discussed earlier, has given me a new view of parenting, that you DO have to let them explore, learn, fail, succeed on their own...but be there for them to help guide them, not direct.
I used to be focused on making sure my sons would never be dependent on a partner for cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc. That they were self-sufficient in basic daily necessities. And they are now.
Now I have learned to allow them to make their own decisions, though I do point out the likely consequences of what they are wanting to do, both the good and the bad. And then let them decide and I hang in the background. They know I am there.
The last thing I want is for them to have their own MLC, and declare "I feel like a child/You treat me like a child" to their partner.
Hi gentlemen and Mach! LOL
I really do get what you are saying. It's pretty much what I did with my oldest D. After a long and bitter "war" we finally found common ground and now are very close. Tonight my D14 came to me 2 different times to ask for my advice. Once about school and once about her new "friend" Cody. I doubt she talks to her mom like she does with me. At least she never did when she lived with us. We've always been close, her and I.
I understand that she has to have enough freedom to become the adult she's meant to be. At the same time, too much "freedom", too quick, is also not a good idea. Especially after all she's been through with the D and her mother leaving and actually still is going through. It's hard enough when both parents are involved and back each other. The way things are between her mother and I, I can see my W just disagreeing to disagree.
All night tonight D14 has been excited and I could tell something was up. Well, it turns out she is going to go watch her new friend play football after school tomorrow. She wants me to pick her up and take her to get some "eye liner" and then I can drop her at his game. I teased her and said well, I really should go too and meet this guy! She just laughed and said "I will disown you if you do that!". The reason she wants to stay at her mother's is so very clear now. This guy is close to there. She can see him after school and she doesn't even have to tell anyone where she's going! Her mother won't even know she's not at home.
I'm going to have to figure something out here that will give her at least something close to what she wants while at the same time not put her in too much danger. I do understand that she must strike out on her own but, like I said, too much too soon especially when she has already had enough going on the last year and a half isn't smart.
Wow, interesting morning!
So, after my D14 spent the evening the night before coming to me for "advice", asking me questions about football (she wants to know enough about the game to not look like an idiot in front of this guy), etc. we had a long talk on the way to school.
She is nervous as this guy she likes parents are going to be at the game today and she will be meeting them. This is a first for her as this guy is the first boy she likes that she hasn't known for most of her life. She asked me all kinds of questions, told me how nervous she was, asked me my opinion on how to wear her hair...on and on. Mostly I validated, tried to get her to relax and just be herself. At one point she said "You're the only person I talk to about this stuff, dad. I don't even talk to mom about it". I asked her why not. She said "I don't know. Because she's mom. I just don't feel comfortable talking to her. I don't have a sister to talk to anymore so you're the only one I have". She then started saying how she always wished she had a brother and that she wants to have a boy first when she gets M and 4 kids total....kid stuff.
How sad that one statement about not being comfortable talking to her mom was! Sad for her and sad for my W. How much is W missing out on because of her MLC? This is time and events W will never be able to get back. Once it's past, it's gone forever. The fact that my d14 trusts and loves me enough to come to me and talk about her life means more to me than any amount of money, any great business success, any "thing" I could have been able to have if I had sacrificed my R with her to get it. It's sad that instead of having her big sister there for her, to talk to, spend time with, laugh and be "sisters" with, her family is now gone and scattered.
It also is wonderful that she trusts me enough to talk to me. That she knows she can talk to me and I will be there for her. That she still believes in family and M and isn't thinking that because her parents are D'g that M can't work or will end badly. I'm very proud of her. She is such a great kid. I'm also proud of her sister who has become so hard working and responsible so quickly. They both are dealing with things in a way that makes me really understand that I must have done something right. That all the time, effort and sacrifice over the years was worth it.
I am so glad that I have my D's and I know that I always will. I'm blessed in so many ways and need to remember this in the middle of all this crap that I never asked for. I may no longer have my M but I will always have my family. Whatever my W gains in her journey, I can't imagine it being worth what she is missing now and will in the future but that is her choice. I get to chose what is important to me and I choose my kids and my family, whether she wants to be part of that or not.
WOW..Matt you should feel proud! You have a great R with your D. She may pull back a bit in the future but with the foundation that she has...she will be right back.
Good job being Dad!
As for your W - it is her loss
I get to chose what is important to me and I choose my kids and my family, whether she wants to be part of that or not.
I love this ^^^
Matt, what a great job you are doing with your D's! The fact she can talk to you about this stuff, huge. It shows she respects your opinion. Keep it up! You are her rock
Thanks Eric.
She really is a good kid. I expect her to pull away as she gets into the 15-17 years, it would be weird if she didn't. I think that it's an important part of growing up to pull away around that age. The problem is some go too far, others not far enough. No one ever said it was going to be easy! For the kids or the parents.
It really is W's loss. I actually feel bad for her that she will miss so much of the rewards of raising kids. I have no doubt that someday she will regret what she is missing now. I guess it all depends on whether she finds anything close to what she is "missing" and searching for now. Who knows? It's her journey only she can decide what she thinks is important.
Thanks mLeigh,
I learned something when my D19 started her teen years. Whenever a teenager wants to talk to you about ANYTHING, no matter what you're doing, you need to stop and give them your attention. If you put them off or try and say "I'm busy, can we talk later?" they will never be ready when you are. It's just how they are at that age. It won't always be that way, as they get older they will change but until then you just have to realize that the times that they actually want your help won't come often so you have to always be ready. Do that long enough and they will see that you really do care, that they are important to you and will trust you and come to you more often. When you stop to think about it, what is more important than they are in the end? In a short time they will be adults and out on their own and you'll miss having them around wanting your time and attention!
Good advise Matt.
I do believe we should be open and available to listen and be there anytime our children need. My little guy is only 7, but I always listen when he wants to talk to me and he knows he can always count on me. I can't imagine doing any different. In a conversation with H the other day, I let him know that S should be a bigger priority on his list. He responded by saying that it isn't realistic to always be available anytime S wants, that we are busy and entitled to our own adult time and that by me doing so is coddling him. He is 7! I don't know, I just don't agree with that to the extent that H takes it. Not sure if that is H MLC talking, or if he really believes that. If that is how H was raised, it's no wonder S and I are going through this right now!
Wow, listening to your 7 year old is "coddling" them? Really?
You know, it may just be the MLC. When my W went into her MLC, she seemed to always put off our D's when they wanted her. She was always "too busy" or "too tired". I actually thought it was more about her depression than MLC but when I look back, she just was so busy doing for herself and just didn't want to be bothered. A 7 year old will be in bed early enough that you should be able to have plenty of "adult time". It may be that your H was raised this way and it could very well be one reason for his MLC. He never was "heard" and felt that he wasn't "important" enough. I'm not one of those crazy "helicopter" parents by any means. Kids need to take responsibility for their actions and be allowed to "fail" at times. Constantly "protecting" them IS coddling. But to be available to listen to them when they need you isn't anything but what a parent should do.
Don't let you H's MLC fogged ideas make you question yourself when it comes to your S. Sounds to me like you are being a really good parent!
Matt,
I think you're beginning to realize that you are the "stable" parent for your D14 and D19 as well. Keep up with the good father-daughter connection. It's a nice awakening for you, isn't it?
Boys!!!
Oh boy. My late father worried about boys around me. Then I told him I liked girls...talk about switching gears! LOL!
Hey T,
The last thing I want is for them to have their own MLC, and declare "I feel like a child/You treat me like a child" to their partner.
I'm pretty sure that the thought of MLC never crossed my parents minds...or that I'd get MLC...just sayin'.
Hey Matt. Just catching up and it seems like you are doing really well. I see you making big steps and I am happy for you. I would be worried about the "unsupervised" time with your d, too. Just keep a watchful eye on that sitch.
But it sound like things are going well. So nice to see the r you two have. Enjoy it!
Ok, had an interesting 'encounter" with W this morning. Under less than ideal circumstances....
My D14 stayed at her mom's last night so she could go to "Cody"s" football game. She was running late yesterday morning so we couldn't take her dog with her and since she is going to stay at mom's again tonight because she has a dance recital tomorrow, asked if I would drop the dog off this AM. I pass the place on my way to work so I said that i would just drop her. Well, I get there and D14 isn't home. No one is home. Turns out that D14 had to be at school early this morning and her mom took her. I had to text her mom and she offered to come and let me in. Of course she made sure to let me know what a "pain" it was and how it's puts her out etc.
So, I wait and she shows up and isn't in a good mood. In fact she was in a very weird mood. I have seen her like this before, she is in one of her "anxiety" periods. She was talking a mile a min and moving around doing all kinds of things as she spoke to me. She was upset that I even considered bringing the dog to her place since D14 was going to come back to my place Saturday. When I told her D14 really wanted her dog with her and I was going by anyway she said "Yes, but she needs to learn she can't get whatever she wants. She needs to learn that she has to ask if BOTH parents are OK with having her dog here. I hate when she has that dog here, she sheds terribly and she peed in my bedroom 2 times last week!". OK, so I went into DB mode and validated her feelings and said that in the future I'll make sure to check if it's OK with her before I bring the dog. She then added that it wasn't fair to me and I shouldn't have to worry about stopping and dropping the dog off. OK, it is 5 min's out of my way and I really don't mind as D14 is alone every evening and having her dog makes her feel better but I just didn't say anything.
Then W starts in on how D14 is Skyping with the new boyfriend last night and she heard him say "I love you" to her. Now this is bad. They hardly know each other really and I didn't know he was being that way yet. W then tells me a story about when she was in 10th grade and some boy she was dating kept trying to get her to say she loved him and when she wouldn't he got angry. Later she heard that he was angry at another girl who did say it because she wouldn't have sex with him and she would if she loved him. I told W that I don't think D14 is going to fall for that but I would talk to her about it for sure. W seemed happy that I was willing to talk with D14. I asked about the dance thing and wanted to check to make sure what time I had to pick her up and W checked and showed me the paperwork so we got the right times. She said she was probably going to go and check it out so she may be there. Actually I was happy that she was going to go. I told her that our older D19 and her boyfriend were planning on coming down to go with D14 and I to a Pet Fest in our town after.
This started her up on a new topic. She said she has been trying to tell D19 that she should stop living with her boyfriend and come live with her and get a job there as there are lots of places for her to work around her house and that she won't ever save any money living with her BF. Not only that, she keeps asking W for gas money when she comes down to visit and "I'm stretched thin as it is and I can't afford it". She added that if she did that she could save for a car and after that she could live with me as it's closer to the college she wants to go to. She also said she can't afford to help her with college, went on and on about how she would charge her rent and save it and give it back to her when she moved out...like I said, W was talking a mile a min. and was VERY hyper! What she doesn't seem to understand is that D19 doesn't want to live with her mother. Her mom decided to turn one bedroom into an "office" and D14 and D19 would have to stay in the same room. Not only that she is angry at her mom and says she "can't count on her" and would never live with her. Not only that, W makes A LOT of money. Almost $90,000 a year and she is "stretched thin"? I made much less than that with 2 girls in private school, house payment and 2 car payments and we did fine. As for me, I just validated, smiled and said things like D19 really needs to make a better plan, etc. I did say that I am proud of D19 as since W left and she moved in with BF, she has been working very hard and being very responsible. To that my W just gave me a sour look and said that that was true but.... When W asked if I was getting asked for gas money when she visits I told her that I've been meeting them half way and I really don't have the money anyway. W asked about my still not having glasses and said "That was bad timing" since they broke when I was broke. I told her that I hope to have money soon and that I'm looking for a new job at the same time.
I told her that I really had to go and thanked her for coming to let in the dog and apol. for having my signals crossed with D14. She said it wasn't my fault and left it at that.
OK, what do I take from this? Seems like W is probably off her meds as this is how she gets whenever she stops taking them. Not my sand box, she doesn't want to take her meds that's her thing. I am bothered by the way she is about D14. Here is a 14 year old who has been through a lot of bad crap in the last year and is trying hard to make the best of her sitch. She earned having her own dog when she was just 10 years old and takes very good care of her. Is it really that bad having another dog there? W took one of our dogs with her and he gets lonely without D14's dog around and one more dog isn't that big a deal. It seems to me more about control than the dog. I really don't think W understands one bit all that both our girls are going through because of our M ending. She doesn't seem to get that it hurts them and they are trying to deal the best way they know how with a bad sitch! Is she really that blinded by her MLC? I guess the answer is yes. It really is sad to me that she is so wrapped up in herself and just can't seem to find any empathy for her girls. I really don't think she wants D14 to stay with her most of the time like D14 talked to me about. To me it seemed almost like she really was rather put off because D14 asked to stay with her during my week. (I got this from what she said when I called. She seemed upset that the reason D14 wanted to stay was because she had to be at school early but now she thinks it was because she wanted to go to football game to see BF). She is still losing weight and is rail thin not to mention (again) the hyper way she was behaving. I forgot to mention that when she talked about D19 living with her, she said "I would hate having her live here as she is always leaving messes everywhere...", she was just all over the place.
Not sure what to make of all this. I am glad W didn't want to talk about the d or money like she normally does. But I am a bit taken a back by the way she is behaving. I know there is nothing I can do about any of it. This is her life now and she has made it clear that she doesn't want me to be a part of it. She does still want me to be proactive with the girls but what she probably wouldn't like is that I disagree with some of the ways she wants to deal with them. Look, even when D14 has been staying with her, I've been able to take her places when W couldn't (or wouldn't), I've tried hard to be a stable force in her life and she needs it. It almost seems like D14 is a "bother" to her. Oh, well. That's between them. All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted. I will do what I think is best and all I can do is let my W deal how she wants.
What part of all that can/should you control?
All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted. I will do what I think is best and all I can do is let my W deal how she wants.
^^^^
Matt
All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them
^^^ Yep.
I have a few other observations….
Yes, but she needs to learn she can't get whatever she wants. She needs to learn that she has to ask if BOTH parents are OK with having her dog here.
IMO, your ex has a point. Set aside, the crappiness of the divorce for a second. Continuing to do this for you D; although on some level I understand it, is teaching your D what? Also, consider that although it is not big deal to YOU since you have to drive by, it was a big deal to your ex. Right now, IMO, you are still recovering from the crappy chit your ex did – so the lens with which you view her…still has some anger. I have more comments on your description of how the girls feel…further below.
She then added that it wasn't fair to me and I shouldn't have to worry about stopping and dropping the dog off. OK, it is 5 min's out of my way and I really don't mind as D14 is alone every evening and having her dog makes her feel better but I just didn't say anything.
Good for you for not responding. Once again, IMO, your ex has a point. Now as for your daughter spending evening alone – that is YOUR daughters choice. She has the opportunity to live with YOU – she choose not to. As I have mentioned before, I am still learning how to allow my own kids to learn from their own choices. It is not easy. Look at it through a different lens – Your D want’s to be near her BF. That is your D’s choice. Not yours and not her mothers.
Then W starts in on how D14 is Skyping with the new boyfriend last night and she heard him say "I love you" to her. Now this is bad. They hardly know each other really and I didn't know he was being that way yet.
Definitely something you should talk to your D about. This is a perfect sitch for you to show YOUR daughter what a kick arse parent you are. Just remember, that your daughter will still choose to listen or not to what you say. You are though…planting seeds…that God willing will blossom in the future. Now before you write that YOUR ex should do something as well….lemme ask you…who does Matt control? Matt? Matt’s ex? Matt’s daughter? Keep that in mind.
What she doesn't seem to understand is that D19 doesn't want to live with her mother. Her mom decided to turn one bedroom into an "office" and D14 and D19 would have to stay in the same room. Not only that she is angry at her mom and says she "can't count on her" and would never live with her.
Not your problem and D19 could also live with you if she wanted to. The office into a bed room….although I agree with you….is not anything that you can do or say anything about. I am glad you kept quiet. Matt, one of these days…you are gonna get tired of having these convo’s with your ex. You’ll know you are getting close to being done…when the fact that her mom made a bedroom into an office – does not even effect you. You’d give it no one millisec of space in your head.
I am bothered by the way she is about D14.
I understand a lot of your concern. I do believe though that you are projecting how YOU feel on to your kids. It is understandable – your still hurt and still healing.
Here is a 14 year old who has been through a lot of bad crap in the last year and is trying hard to make the best of her sitch. She earned having her own dog when she was just 10 years old and takes very good care of her. Is it really that bad having another dog there?
When you frame it this way….”is it really that bad…..”, you are missing the fact that your ex and YOU both have boundaries that your D will need to adhere to. If you continue to express to your d that you understand (implying subtly that her mom is blowing this out of proportion)…then you teach your daughter to not respect boundaries. This may work for you now….but in the long run….how does it help your d?
I really don't think W understands one bit all that both our girls are going through because of our M ending.
Yes the girls maybe going through some chit. They have YOU though man! You to be the rock for them. Part of me, seems a little of your projecting here…. Consider this…if the girls were that upset/hurt with mom….they would probably live with you. Be careful here Matt. I feel for this type of thinking……it creates the exact sitch that you want to avoid, which is the girls playing you both against each other.
both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted.
They may not have wanted it…..and neither did you… YOU have to lead them through it…you need to show them how to deal with life – while not…projecting your anger and feelings towards your wife. It isn’t easy Matt and you are really doing very well. It is a process bro….a process.
OK, what do I take from this?
IMO….you take the following….
1 – ex w continues to be batchit crazy – so I need to detach more.
2 – I still focus too much on exw – I need to detach more.
3 – I need to realize that exw and I will parent very differently.
4- I need to allow my kids to figure out exw on their own and in their own time.
5 – I may be, without realizing, creating a dynamic that I do not want in the future.
God Bless,
That was fast T2!
I agree completely. None of it is at all under my control nor can it be. I was just so taken aback by the way she was acting and wanted to get it out while it was fresh in my mind. I guess if I can take anything away from it, it's that I really see more than ever how important it is that I keep being there as much as possible for both my girls. My W is becoming less and less the person she used to be before her MLC. I would say it's sad except for the fact that this is who she wants to be. It's her life and she can choose to be whoever she pleases. Whether I like this person more or less than who she used to be is irrelevant. If she really and truly thinks that she is happier living the way she is now that's her choice. All I can do is live my life the way I want and leave the rest up to God.
Umm Eric, I guess first I would say "See reply to T2",
second, when W first left, D14 wanted to stay with me and not her mother. At the time she was told by both my W and me that she has no choice, that for now she has to split her time. What you need to keep in mind is this...D14 isn't choosing to live with her mom, not really. She is choosing exactly what any kid her age would choose...to be closer to her friends and with the parent that leaves them alone and isn't around to "get in the way". I completely understand this and I would have done the same thing at her age. I mean it's teen heaven to only have to see her mom for at most an hour a day! Especially when she knows that if her mom isn't around to do something for her, I have been taking up that slack. It really doesn't bother me that D14 would want this as to her she is invincible and nothing "bad" will ever happen whether there is a parent around or not. This is just typical teenager thinking.
The thing about the dog being at W's... what you don't know is this is a 180 on my W's part. The reason I found it so odd is because my W was adamant that wherever D14 was staying, the dog would go with her. There were a couple times when i kept the dog an extra night and w was upset about it. To suddenly say that I need to get her say so for something that was a given just a couple weeks ago is the weird thing here.
Wasn't going to say anything about my W needing to do something about the Skyping thing. I'm actually glad W even knew and brought it up with me. This was a positive really. Nothing at all "bad" to say about my W's response there.
Haven't said a word about the whole dog sitch to my D14. She was in school this morning when it happened so haven't even had a chance to yet. Definitely won't imply that her mom is "blowing it out of proportion". It's just a total change in W's attitude. In fact I wouldn't mind having the dog with me all the time if my D14 wouldn't mind. I live out in the country and she has lots of room. Of course, she does eat, A LOT.... If my W wants to have a "both of us have to buy in" attitude about the dog, that's fine with me. If this is a boundary for my W than man, it's a brand new one.
With my D19 I have had to actually pull her back with how angry she has become with her mom. There is no way that she would live with her mother and she has made that very clear. I know exactly why she doesn't live with me right now. She is trying to go on with her life. If she lived with me she would NEED a car, the closest business, a gas station, is 8 miles away and there are no buses or trans. that she can take and she knows i can't afford to help her get one right now. At one point I told her that I was thinking about selling the house and moving closer to her sister and she freaked out. She wants to know that if anything were to happen she still has a place in the home she grew up in and she does.
Like I said to T2, my W has every right to be whomever she wants, to set whatever boundries she likes with D14, have whatever attitude she likes about any part of her life. I don't have to like it but I also can't and won't even try and change it. All I can control is myself. I have been very careful about my reactions to my W when around my D's. It's up to them to decide how they feel about anything that goes on between them and her.
Everything you say is spot on, Eric. I don't disagree with any of it. I also want you to know that I do get it and have been very careful especially about showing any anger towards their mother or saying anything is "bad" or expressing that I think what she is doing is "wrong". I let them make that decision on their own.
Hope that helps!
D14 wanted to stay with me and not her mother
why did you not agree to have D14 live with you?
what you don't know is this is a 180 on my W's part
Why are you still trying to do 180’s for YOUR W? Now, if it is something YOU wanted to change – then I get it. Actually, maybe I making an assumption – do you still want ex back? Cause if you do, then I actually do understand the 180.
The reason I found it so odd is because my W was adamant that wherever D14 was staying, the dog would go with her.
FTR, I actually have written into my agreement 50/50 custody of my dog. I had a similar sitch. Guess what? My dog has been with me for almost 3 months now. I have a better understanding now. Thanks for clarifying I now can totally relate to what you may be dealing with. My advice – do what you want to do regarding the dog. If W get’s pissed – ignore her.
It took me a long time to finally stop trying to figure out my W and just worry about myself, my kids and what I could control, Matt...a long time. I was so pleased to read the part you wrote that I quoted...
Hey Eric,
Well in answer to why i let D14 stay 50/50 with my W and I...at the time I was still very much in "I don't think W will actually go through with this" mind set. She hadn't filed yet and was actually saying she wasn't planning to, that she was thinking a "separation". She was VERY adamant about 50/50 and when I said that 7 days/7 days may not be best she freaked out and said I was trying to "take my D away from me". She said at the time that if I didn't agree to at least try this she would ask for the house to be sold and if i would agree to at least try it and see how it went I could keep the home as she didn't want it and she would keep all the other things like her retirement and 403B's, etc. This is one of the reasons I was so PO'd when I got the paperwork from her lawyer that said i could only live in the home until D14 turned "18 + one day"! I really thought that having the home she grew up in for at least part of the time would be good for my D14 and at the time my D19 was still planning on staying with me. If I had known what I do now, I never would have agreed to it. Heck, I wouldn't have agreed to a lot of things!
When I said "This is a 180" I didn't mean a 180 for me, I meant for HER. She was wanting D14 and the dog to ALWAYS be a set. For her to say I needed to check if D14 was staying if she wanted the dog as well, was a "180" from what she wanted before now. Sorry if I wasn't clear. As for wanting my W "back", I really think that ship has sailed. Now, if by some miracle, she started to come out of her MLC and actually was able to see the damage she has done and actually want to do the work she would need to have a M, I might be open to trying. But you know as well as I do how unlikely that is to happen in time to stop this D from actually happening. We've been M 21 years and together 26. The way she is now isn't who she was for 90% of that time.
50% custody of the dog is a great idea! I really miss the one dog she has totally claimed as "hers"!
Another weird day in the world of MLC!!!
OK, so this morning my D14 had a dance event. She just started doing this a few weeks ago and this was her first "event" where she will dance in public. She stayed at her mom's last night because it started really early. At noon there was going to be a "show" where D14 was going to have a small part in. I was supposed to pick her up after and get there in time to see my D14's part. On my way I get a text from W. She asks if I had gotten there yet. I text back I was on my way and would be there in 5 min. I get there and I get another text as I was parking saying D14 was getting ready to start. I get in just in time to see my D14's group do their part. It was great, she looked like she was really having fun!
There were a few more groups after hers and as I made my way up to the bleachers I hear someone call my name. It was my W and she saved a seat next to her and asked me to come sit with her. She told me that she recorded D14's routine FOR ME. (Uh?). Wow, that was really nice of her and I thanked her. She made a little small talk and it ended. We both went down to get D14, talked to some of her friends, etc. As we were leaving, I said I would meet them at her house so I could pick up D14 and her dog as I have her until tomorrow.
I get to her house just after they do and D14 wants to eat, change and get her stuff together before leaving. So, I was there for about 20-30 min's. My W was really nice the whole time. She showed me some new plants her father gave her (he owned a nursery for years), she also showed me a violet she was trying to grow from a clipping. This is something her grand mother used to do and I mentioned that. She said that was why she was doing it and that she wants to find some "hobbies" and the plants were one she thought she would like. She told me that she was going to a baby shower for one of her friends from work later and after that she was having a group of her friends over to play dominos. She told me about a cake she was going to bake and even showed me a new cookbook she got it from. She was being like her old self and we talked and laughed and she seemed to enjoy my company! At one point she even offered to make me a grilled cheese since D14 was taking a long time to get ready. (I said no thanks). She was really nice and thanked me for coming as I left.
Talk about different! This was the W I remember from before her MLC. She wasn't looking to say how I was wrong about anything I said, she was friendly and seemed to want my opinion and listen to what I said. For the last 2 years she has always seemed to want to argue about little things, find something "wrong" about anything I said, just seemed to want to disagree or put me in a bad light...not today. She also seemed while not "happy", more content than she has been lately. She wasn't all tense like she was just yesterday when she had to come and let the dog in. I could actually LIKE this person.
So, tonight I remembered that I had read something that she would be interested in and forgot to tell her today. So, I took a chance and texted her that I knew she was busy but I had read this and wanted to tell her because I thought she would be interested. I didn't expect her to text back as she has friends over. Well, she did and was nice, asked questions and thanked me for letting her know. Made me glad I texted as I wanted to show that I appreciated that she was so friendly today.
So, not sure what this change was about. I don't expect it to stay this way but I will say it is nice. I know I have to not expect her to keep being like this but I can say it would sure make things easier if we could interact like this all the time!
Catching up on your thread this afternoon. Wow! After all you are going through I am truly amazed at how much you still give to others, be it us here on the forum or your D or even your W. You are an amazing person and your W is a fool for leaving you.
I love the R you have with your D. She is lucky to have you as the stability in her life. Sometimes it is hard to count your blessings in this situation (I know!) but you have clearly done something right with the way are raising her.
I hope you are having a great day today and the change you saw in your W yesterday is continued for a bit or maybe is a glimpse of what your future R with her could look like.
Thanks fth,
Sooner or later things will have to get easier then they are now. I fight every day to NOT allow the sitch my W has put everyone in change ME or who I want to be. It would be so easy to just allow my anger to consume me. To become vindictive. Believe me, in the beginning I thought about doing things that I would regret now for sure! I try to remember that I loved this person for most of my adult life and made a promise to until death. I didn't promise only if she "loved me back".
Right now I just don't have the money to really GAL as much as I would like. I'm trying to fix this and while it would be easy to blame my W or my sitch it really is up to me to make my life work the way I want it to. I still get angry at times. I still have times that I just can't understand how my W has become the way she is but I can't control anything but myself. I hope that my W is going to start acting the way she did yesterday more often. I do know that whether she does or not, I can always choose to act the way I think is best, no matter how she or anyone else around me does!
Hello everyone!
I had a very hard day yesterday that is testing me to the max. I'm trying so hard to just make it. I am so close to making some money that I need desperately and things just aren't falling into place. I have sent out several resumes and haven't had one response. In the past I haven't had any problem finding a new job when I needed one. This time, whether it's because I need to find one that allows me to still take my D14 to school in the morning so I'm restricted to a certain area or something else, I'm just not getting even a call or email. I have several clients that are close to buying and all I really need is one or two to "pull the trigger" and I would be fine but it's just not happening.
So, here I am just trying to stay afloat and I get a total blowout on the way home from work. Thankfully it happened after I picked up my D14 and a friend after school and dropped them at McDonald's. It would have been worse if they were in the car with me. The problem is, I can't afford a new tire right now. All I have is the little "spare" that they put in cars now (who's stupid idea was that anyway?). How sad is that? I can't afford to go to the Dr. and I need to for something I've been dealing with for a long time and even if I did, I can't afford the medicine I need either. The idiot that is supposed to handle the money in the startup I'm at has totally blown it and until some more money comes in we are operating on a "shoe string" and I can't even draw the small amount I need to just be able to get a new tire! This is one of the worst parts of this. I have drawn almost no "extra" funds, less than any of the other exec's, but now that I need to, the funds just aren't there! My car payments are so late that I'm afraid that I may get repo'd even if I can get a new tire!
It's a long drive to work for me and making the trip on a small spare just won't work. I have always wanted to move closer to my work but since I wasn't certain if this job would work out, I was waiting to see. Now, even if I get a new job, unless I move, it will need to be close to where my W lives now so I can take my D14 to school on the way in the morning and she moved 30 miles away because it's where all her friends from work live.
I am so stressed out it's unbelievable. I may be able to borrow money from a colleague at work but I hate doing that and it's just one tiny part. Soon my electric bill and water, etc. will need to be paid and while I'm so close to making a few sales, it has to happen soon or I'm done for. I just don't understand why I'm suddenly unable to find a new job. In my business it's not unusual to not make money for stretches but this one just went too long. Of course I thought that if things got too bad I could get some funds from the business but now I can't even do that. So, this morning is going to be me driving down the freeway at 45 mph and going to get a new tire (I hope) and not trying to bring in the funds from the clients that I need to and still not making headway.
This has got to change and soon. Please send some good vibes my way that I make a sale or two in the next couple days folks. In the meantime I'm going to just have to deal with the stress as well as I can.
Hi Matt,
I'm sorry about all the shizz happening at the moment. I get the stress and frustration, and...fear.
What are you doing for you? To counter-act the stress?
I worry about you...
During the worst of my sitch my Dr. basically told me that exercise was no longer an option, but a requirement, otherwise I was at high risk of blowing a gasket, that I had to make time for myself, take care of me, so I could take care of the kids.
If I had a stroke or something, how would I be able to take care of the kids properly? Leave them in her care?
As the rational adult, dude, YOU owe it to YOU and your D's, to take care of you...And you don't need money to do it, brisk walks, sprints/HIIT, do you have a bike?
Let me know what you are doing to take care of you...
Hey T2,
I was exercising almost every day for the first year of my sitch but my gym membership is up and I can't use that anymore. I still do try to get some exercise but definitely need to do more. I had been doing a workout on the X-Box and I really need to start doing that more regularly. I've started to try meditating recently and that does have a calming effect when I can't get to sleep. It can be kinda hard to motivate myself at times especially when I'm home with just me and the dog!
I was able to get a used tire from my MIL which really helped! I told her what happened and she said she had this extra tire and I was welcome to use it. Turned out just by chance to be the right size! Amazing as she drives a Toyota and I a Mazda but thankfully it only cost $20 to put it on my rim! So, a little good news. Haven't had any sales yet today but I'm working on it and really hope to have something in soon. This has just been a very stressful time and I really need to find something that pays a steady wage and soon. Too bad as this startup could have been really profitable if only things had worked just a little better.
I'm so glad to still have a good relationship with my MIL. She is so upset with what her D is doing and how she just left her M because she wasn't "happy". It really hurts her as I am close to my W's mom's side of the family and also because since her MLC, my W has totally abandoned her mom's side of the family for her dad and his wife. My MIL used to know everything that was going on with D's and now, since my W spends all her "free" time with her dad, my MIL just doesn't know what going on. My W doesn't even call her anymore!
Thanks for checking in with me T2. All I can do is keep trying and moving forward and hope I can get some money in and a new job ASAP!!
Read your post earlier and wanted to let you know I am praying for you and that your day gets better. Praying that you are able to have some success on the work & money front soon. Glad to hear that your MIL was able to help you with your tire. Yay for little miracles!
Matt,
Want you to know that you are in my prayers...I'll post more later.
((((Matt))))
I haven't read all of your current stuff, but im sorry to hear the startup isn't working out like you'd hoped. Keep your head up, something will come your way and usually when you least expect it.
Glad to hear the relationship with MIL is still strong and she helped you while in a tough jam. She needs support just like you, so keep that relationship strong. I continue to pray that your W comes back to reality! I know it's tough to go out and do stuff, but make sure you're still GALing in other ways!
Matt,
I'm sending you positive vibes....keep going. Don't give up! I've found that networking is the best in landing a job. Again....LOOK UP your Rolodex and arrange a quick lunch or coffee time with your old colleagues. That's how I've landed my jobs...through connections with my colleagues and peers in the field.
Emails, sending out resumes aren't cutting you because there's no face-to-face contact.
One final thing is to sign up for a Meet-Up group in your area with the specialization you're looking for. Some have business contacts and start-ups.
I would like to see that you've signed up for at least 3 Meet-Up groups by Wednesday...'k?
Sending good thoughts Matt.
I've been there too bro. You gotta hang in there.
I agree with Wonka. Get in touch with some old friends.
Network buddy.
Tad
Thanks everyone!
I really needed the support the last few days. Wonka, I've been networking with others in my industry and it seems most of my old colleagues are struggling as well. Which is odd to me since I'm in the oil industry and it's booming around here and I've been in this business for 15 + years. I'm branching out into any sales field at this point but still not getting much. I've joined a few social meetups but there just haven't been many business ones in my area. One thing about that is there are new ones every day so I'll keep looking!
I really am thankful all of your support everyone! By the way Tad, I read that you landed the perfect new job recently. I hope it's going well!
Hi Matt.
I am sorry things have been so stressful for you. I hope you are well. I am glad that you were able to work out something for your car with MIL's tire. Thank goodness for those blessings, right?! I find that I am so much more grateful and aware of those small blessings these days. I am sure something is waiting for just the right time for you with employment. You wouldn't expect it to be easy, now, would you? That wouldn't be right! Part of this process is to see what we are made of. Well, at least that's the way I see it. And as far as I can tell, Matt, you will be alllllrrrrright! Keep your head up, and enjoy those small blessings. I know something big is around the corner. Be patient, Matt. This ain't easy.
Yeah Matt. Thank you. I love my job a lot. It saved my a$$. Do you know how I got it though? I had totally given up on my industry (broadcasting) and drove a cab for a while, but was making close to nothing. Literally - nothing. I mean, I was close to living on the street. It was that bad. I was at a dead end/in a rut/whatever you want to call it. Finally, as a last resort, I swallowed my pride and posted on my Facebook page that I needed a job. I had a few people post leads on my page - they were things that I had no experience with, but it was something. I applied for all of them and heard nothing back. Then, believe it or not, I heard from a radio buddy of mine that I hadn't spoken to in over three years. (I had gone into a shell and distanced myself from all of my old friends....ALL of them.) He sent me a text right out of the blue telling me that he saw my post and asked if I was still looking. (I was actually surprised that he still had my number.) I told him that I was and the rest is history. I'm not out of the woods yet, but I can see a little light at the end of the tunnel.
My radio buddy? Well....if angels exist, then I swear he is my guardian.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - don't be afraid to let people know that you need help. It took a while for me to believe this again after all that I've been through but....there are good people in this world that would be willing to help but.......you have to ASK.
Take care bro.
It'll get better.
Tad
Thanks Mighty and Tad,
It's 5:30 in the morning and I can't sleep...again. I just don't know what to do. I keep trying and trying and nothing is falling into place. I know I am partly to blame for the place I'm in right now but so much of it is just out of my control. I must get some money but where do I start? I can't believe that once again, I trusted the wrong people, counted on others who I thought I could count on and now I'm paying the price. I don't know, maybe there is no place for someone like me in today's world. I tried so hard to keep my M together and failed. I tried so hard to be the kind of husband only a fool would leave and my W left.
I feel like I must do something but there isn't anything I can do. Yesterday I found out that one of the other people I work with quit. Turns out that he has a "pill problem" and has been taking Aderall and is quitting to "get clean". OK, so what else do I find out? Well, it seems he owes the company money because the money guy who now tells me there just isn't any money to draw from has been giving this guy money every month for the last several months! Here I need money to live and can't get any and this guy has been giving money to a junkie who hasn't done a thing to help the business! What is wrong with this world? What has happened to everyone?
The one person in the world I always thought I could count on has gone off to find herself and relive her childhood. I'm about to go under and there is nothing I can do about any of it. I'm scared. For the first time since all this started I'm really scared. With no money how am I supposed to take care of my D's? I have to find a way through this. Find a way to make my life start to work again or I just don't know what will happen.
Part of me wants so badly to blame my W for the sitch I'm in. How she left knowing I was counting on her and she did it with a negative bal. in the checking account and unpaid bills while making $7,000 a month. Yes, that would be so easy. But I know that wouldn't be the whole truth. No, I should never have allowed myself to get where I am. I need to look forward, not back but I just don't see a way forward that I can go. There is just no foothold and everything is dark. I just need one sale. One. But even that seems out of reach at the moment.
Sorry to go so negative everyone. I just have never felt so alone in my life like I do now. I just need one thing to go my way. One break that could start me moving forward but it's like I've hit a wall and there is no way through.
I will post on FB about looking for a job. Most of my FB "friends" are from out of state and I don't know how much help they will be but I will try. At this point I will do anything I can. Even if I found a new job, I still have no money until I can get paid. I need money to get caught up or I won't have a way to get to a job or pay the electric and water bills! I hate this feeling of helplessness. This feeling of not being in control of any part of my life. I always thought that no matter what I would have my family. I stuck by my W through hard times for her and always thought that someday, If I ever had a "hard time" she would be there for me but that turned out to be so wrong. What I do now will decide whether I make it or not. My entire life, all my years of hard work have come down to this one point in time where I will either make it or not.
I have tried to live my life the "right" way. To do the right things and be a good person. In a business full of "crooks" I have never once lied to make a sale or compromised my values. I always thought that, in the end, that would come back to help me. Maybe the old adage "Nice guys finish last" is true after all. Maybe I should have been the shark all along. I pray that isn't the case and that I will make it through this time.
I don't have any questions. No worries about my W or our sitch. No I'm just at a point where I need to get this out. Thanks for taking the time to listen. Not sure what I would do without the board right now.
Hi Matt,
I am in a similar situation financially and work wise as you are. You first need to ask yourself what is the worst thing that can happen? You are not going to die, that is at least a positive. I feel that sometimes you have to get to the bottom before you can go up. I am looking at this as a signal that I need to discard the direction I was going and strike out in a new direction. I am looking at it as an exciting opportunity to try new things and see what fits. You can either look at it as a glass half empty or a glass half full. I hope you choose the half full and figure out how to fill it.
Hi LT,
I've really been trying to see things the way you say. I really have. I have been successful many times in my life and I've been down before as well. This time just feels different since I no longer have my partner.
One of the guys I work with suggested I try joining Uber and make some cash on the weekends giving rides to people. Thing is I need to drive 30 miles to the closest urban area to do this and then hope I get some fares. I just never thought I'd be brought this low again. When I was younger I would have been much more equipped to handle this kind of thing. Here I am at almost 53 and I'm seriously thinking of driving a "cab" (which is what Uber actually is)?
You are right about the fact that I won't die from this. I still have my D's and I still have myself. I've been down before and I've always been able to get back on my feet and do better than before. This time I have no cushion, no room for error. I'll get through this I know I will I just need one small thing to go my way and I'll be fine!
Hi everyone,
Well, things are not getting better in my life in general. Woke up with a 103 fever and think I have the flu! Couldn't go to work today. Made calls from home and a potential sale that I really thought was going to buy said he was going to pass! I can't believe the way things have been going against me in my business life. I sent out 20 resumes, including jobs that I'm more than qualified for and haven't got one call back, not one. I never have had this much trouble finding a job in my life.
On a positive note, my W texted me today. She is upset because her dad is doing really poorly and she asked if I would keep D14 this weekend. I told her I was sick but I would be willing to have her stay with me. She said that D14 is supposed to go to the football game tomorrow night and her first date on Saturday! Thing is I'm in no shape to drive her around so far from home. W texted back that she will be upset but what she doesn't realize is that W's dad is close to dying and that she really needs to see him now. D14 will just have to realize this and "adjust". Man, talk about no sympathy for D14! I just think my W is so stressed out about her father. A big reason for her MLC there for sure.
I tell her that D14 is just now starting to be interested in boys and they tend to get a bit myopic and selfish. We went through the same thing with D19 at the same age. So, I tell W that she needs to do what she thinks is best with her dad (added how sorry I was he was doing so badly) and I will take her if she thinks it best. So, a little bit ago she texts asking how my fever is. I tell her it's still high after taking advil and how I hate being sick. She texts back that she is going to the store and asks if I need anything! Uh, is this the same person who left me with no money and late bills? So, I text back my thanks and tell her that if she wanted to get something for D14 while she was here it would save me a trip. I'm out of fruit and snacks and didn't expect her to be coming so soon. I also ask for a box of tissues as I've run out from my sickness. She texts back she would be happy to do this. Later she asks if D14 might get sick from me and I said that I didn't know but she is young and I'll give her a lot of sppace while she is home.
This is the nicest she has been since she left. In fact she has tried to be aloff it seems most of the time when dealing with me. Nice of her and I guess it's because I'm helping her out but I'll take it. As long as I don't get my car repo'd and then I'm in trouble! I tried to call my parents yesterday and today and I can't reach them. I hate to do it but I may ask for help. They don't have a lot of money but I will pay them back if it's the last thing I do!!
So, still broke, now sick but my W is being decent. I guess I'll take what I can!
Matt
I hope you feel better. Try and stay positive dude! Focus on the good things man.
OK everyone, I have a few questions for all my LBS friends!
Funny how I have never met anyone from the board but there are some here whose opinions and insights I trust more than 99% of the people I know. There are just so many smart, insightful, generous men and women on this sight. There are some who, from getting to know their thoughts, feelings, what is important to them, it really boggles the mind how their S could ever leave them MLC or not. I see so many here that have had their worlds torn apart without warning. Have endured so much pain and hurt and still take the time to help others who are going through much of the same. Who can still find humor and find time to laugh and make others who are in pain laugh along with them. Then there are the those that can see right through you and push you to look at things a different way. I'm so thankful that I found you all!!
So, the questions....someone suggested that I try doing Uber. Where I would give people rides and the payment is all done through a phone app. I don't live in an area that they serve but the city is about 30 miles up the road and I was thinking that maybe, at least on weekends, I could try doing that.(as long as my car doesn't get repo'd!) I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Uber or knows someone who does or even just has heard anything good or bad about doing it. I would have loved if they had this when I was in my 20's! I would have made money and probably had fun at the same time. Su@k's that I have to even think about it but I have to do something proactive or I won't make it!
Also, does anyone have any ideas that I may have overlooked. I hesitate to post on FB as the owner of the company would see it and until I at least find a new job, I can still keep trying to make some sales there at the same time. Not only that, to be honest, I'm still hoping that once some funds come in, I can get a draw. Knowing that he was paying the guy that just quit, I don't think it's wrong of me if I did that and still left if I find a different position.
I still haven't been able to get ahold of my parents. They aren't very tech savvy and when they aren't home, they don't even have their cells with them or at least have them on! It was so funny watching my D19 trying to explain how texting works and show my dad how to do it, last time they were in town. They both have the old fashioned "clam shell" cell phones and they don't do apps at all. I did give them a tablet a couple years ago and my dad has started texting through that but half the time it doesn't work. One time when they called he was upset because the girls and I weren't answering his texts. The thing is, we just weren't getting them! I'm sure somewhere in their house they have a VCR blinking 12:00 all day and night!
I just can't stand not knowing a way out of this mess! I have noticed one thing that is different. I'm not angry or blaming my W for this sitch. In the past I would get so angry that she left me knowing that I really needed her support financially for the first time in 20+ years. I would think how I wouldn't have ever done the same to her, no matter how "bad" I felt about the M. Back when she was depressed and hadn't gone to the dr. about it yet, there were times that it got really bad. I couldn't understand why she was acting the way she was, not doing anything but sleeping and playing video games, not taking care of the kids (they were young at the time) and I got to the point every now and again of asking myself why I'm even staying. But each and every time I thought how much I still really did love her. That she wouldn't be able to take care of herself in the condition she was in. There was no way that I would EVER just give up on her. Once she was diagnosed with depression, I at least knew what was going on and that she was sick. It kind of became whenever she acted out back then I would think "That wasn't my W. That was the disease" and that helped me see how she was hurting so much more than I was. Until now, I would think about this and get angry because she didn't care about any of that. She just wanted what she wanted and I wasn't anything but a "problem" that needed to be gotten rid of.
Right now, I understand that I have to stop thinking like that. It doesn't do a damn thing or help me in any way. I know that I am in charge of my life and I need to stop thinking about the past. Hey, at least that's progress in getting through this horrible period in my life. All I need to do is change my sitch. Some day, hopefully soon, this will have been nothing but a bump in the road. A learning experience. All I have to do is make it happen.
Sorry for the long winded post. Got to try and stop doing that.....
Damn Eric! Love the quote! You posted while I was writing my last post and the quote you gave was spot on!! I need to get rid of the bitterness. Thanks for stopping in and taking the time to post, much appreciated!
Just checking in on you. I hope your days are going better and you are feeling stronger (and that you got in touch with your parents!).
Thank you so much for posting fth!
Things are worse than ever. I'm not sure how I'm going to get out of this mess but time is running out. I've been sick up until today. I did get in touch with my parents and they helped me with my car payments and will do so until things get better (I thank God for them every day!) but that is all they can do. They aren't wealthy at all and have already helped me with my lawyer. The money man at work still insists that there just is "no money" and that he "can't" do anything. (He did give me enough to go to the Dr. but that is all). I have no money at all and have NEVER been in that position in my life. I have to get my D14 today and get her to school and back every day and I just don't know how I'm going to do that.
I'm going into the office today and try and talk to anyone I can to make a sale and will try again to get some money. I did send out more resumes and included places that I never had (or would have) tried before. I also plan on taking time out to try just stopping at places and applying for ANY job. As for Uber, I need gas money to do that and I don't even have that.
On Friday my electric will be shut off if I don't do something about it. My internet will be shut off soon as well as my water if I don't pay that. These places don't seem to want to make arrangements and when I really can't say when I can pay, it doesn't help! I think it would be worse if I said I would pay and didn't. I also am a bit worried about food for my D14. I just don't know what I'm going to do and I'm really scared! This is my fault for, once again, trusting the wrong people. I trusted that my W wouldn't leave me, even after B-day a big part of me never believed she would actually do it. I trusted the people I work with that if things ever got this bad I could count on a draw like they had done for others but I never asked for. Soon I will lose my phone and I just found out I'm over drawn on my bank account and will lose that soon unless I find funds. I just don't know what to do.
Sorry to be such a downer but this is the hardest period I have ever been through in my life and I don't know what to do!
Hi Matt.
Make some calls. There are agencies and even churches out there that will help pay your utility bills. Some will even help with groceries.
Try the Salvation Army. If they can't help, they should be able to point you in the right direction. Call today man because it might take a day or two.
Also, the Department of Economic Security. They can get you food stamps and even emergency food stamps that allow you to get food today.
Tad
Matt
Breath dude...I know this is tough.
Okay...make a list of what is due and by when. List them in priority order. As Tad mentioned...look into services that may be available. Contact every agency you can. If you have retirement funds, find out if you can tap into those.
As hard as it is...stay positive brother...stay positive!
Immediate fixes:
What can you pawn?
What can you sell on Craigslist?
Call a church or synagogue, or mosque...whatever, ask them for a list of places that can help you. They will have information.
Your state should have something akin to Adult Social Services...find it and ask them for help.
IF you Google "Your Texas Benefits" the first result should help you out.
Matt
Just checking in on you.... How are you today?
How is it gong Matt?
I'm glad to see you out trying other jobs...sales is a very transferable skill set, so check out any sales positions.
What part of Texas are you in?
Praying for you today and hoping you are finding some financial resources to get by until things start to really turn around for you. You are strong. You will get through this too.
It appears that Matt's internet connections have been cut off. What a rapid turn of events! Praying that Matt is able to get something in place asap.
(((Matt)))
Matt---
Sorry to hear of your computer problems. I hope you'll be back on with us soon!
---(G)GGG
Thanks everyone. Finally got to an internet connection. Time for a new thread. Don't have time to come up with a cool name so.....I'll see ypu all at "Wife Still in MLC but has now left #6"!
Hang in there, Matt! Good stuff is just around the corner.