Links to previous threads:
First post: DENIAL was my HAPPY PLACE!!!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...100#Post2473100For better or for worse, for richer or for PORES?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...846#Post2475846Carry on, My Wayward Son (of a Beeeeaaaaach!!!)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2480267#Post2480267Well, enough about me, what do YOU think of me???
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483967#Post2483967_________________________
M44, H44, both M before
M4 yrs, T6
BD 7/13 ILYB something isn't right with me
H att suicide 2/14
S 4/14
OW disc 5/14
No D filed
New thread. New focus. My turn.
.
Awesome thread title. You got this!
Hi Shining I posted this on your last thread before I realized you had started a new one. It is a poem I read now and then along the lines of UR saying to put the marriage away in a box for now:
The Boxes In The Hall
In every Room of our time together there is a box,
Of memories we shared,
Now is the time to pack away,
With Sadness and with Care.
The first is a simple smile,
When ever I thought of you,
Neatly folded into four,
It's the best that I could do.
Next are all the memories,
Of the times when we were two,
Wrapped with love one by one,
Sealed with tears as glue.
And then there are the butterflies,
I had when you were near,
Now in a cage of sadness,
And locked up with a tear.
Next are the times we kissed,
Each one wrapped with a sigh,
Placed next to a rolled up list,
Of all the times I've asked my self why.
Now to pack are the pieces of my heart,
Gathered in a pile,
Each one wrapped up tenderly,
And placed next to a distant smile.
Finally all the shattered wishes,
Placed in softly so no more can break,
Covering them over trying not to cry,
So they would not all ache.
Lastly walking round each room,
Closing each and every curtain,
Shutting each and every door,
Leaving behind each and ever pain.
Gathering up the memories we shared,
Making sure I've got them all,
Packing them softly because I cared,
Leaving them in the boxes in the hall.
Adrian Baillie
Published: Dec 2008
I love this poem, makes me want to cry
Wow, LT. Yes, I cried, too... Beautiful poem. Perfectly timed. Thank you.
I need to get some boxes. Or maybe a vault. Not yet a coffin...
Dam, I was looking at all the boxes in my own hall that are waiting to be picked up by W while I read that poem. Getting teary eyed is not the best way to start the day. If only our MLC S's could read and understand things like this. They wouldn't get it at all!
My boxes aren't packet yet, but I have been collecting them, as well as bubble wrap... and making a mental inventory of what I will have to leave behind.
My home, my animals... it's hard.
The poem was great.
I'd like to think my H would see the sadness in this. But as Matt said above ^^^ they probably wouldn't.
My H has said that a painful divorce and having to sacrifice anything for his new life is just my way of putting a negative spin on things. "That's just all YOUR drama."
Yup. We're gonna have the funnest divorce ever!
Meanwhile, I'm still collecting boxes...
-----GGG
Hey GGG(G), even while she has been causing so much pain and destruction to me, her kids, her own mother, extended family, etc. my W STILL is saying that our D is just so very "easy", no sacrifice, no pain. Of course it helps her that the sacrifice is being made mostly by myself and our D's. She just will not admit that any of it is being cause by her filing! Yep, just my drama. Has nothing to do with her actions... crazy!
Ok, friends. Before I post/vent/document/journal/bash....
PLEASE KNOW I'M OK. I'm not even mad. I'm not seeking sympathy. I'm kind of relieved, in a strange way. I do, as always, appreciate support and hugs, lol....but I'm not having my "Pity Party of One". Just keeping it real, and keeping you all in the loop....
the loopty-loop of loopiness.
Last night, SD19 posted something on her fb that sounded concerning. She can be a bit of a drama-attention seeker, but sometimes it's worth just a check-in, because she does have troubles.
So I reached out with my usual simple text, of "u ok?" She usually responds "yeah, thanks" or just upset about love, life, work, etc. But, not this time.
In just one long text response, as I'm watching the little dot-bubble on her side, thinking, "wow, long response...she must be really having a hard time, I hope she's alright...." Her text came in.
She's depressed because of H and it's really getting to her. I hate that she has to see this, and I'm so sad for her. I hope she can get help for it at some point, because she will need it. She dumped more info than I wanted to learn, but now, I'm glad I got it. It is REALLY HELPING ME SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, AND DETACH. He's one sick puppy. Uffda.
So, H wasn't moving last night at all, like he told me....twice. He wasn't moping, upset or stressed about the move last night, at least not yet....that will come. I'm wishfully thinking and way ahead of myself on that. No, H had a "visitor" over when SD19 got home from work. D was not happy. After said visitor left, H then showed D on his phone, there are about 4 ow .....4.....he's going between that he met on match and some other app. Also, ow#1 comes back from her trip today. According to SD19, she is stalking H, he doesn't want anything to do with her and says she's crazy....lol...and he showed D that he threatens to block ow#1 number for lighting up his phone with constant texts. But, (and I preface this by the fact that this means absolutely nothing to me....zero.) D said H was talking about me, too. And how great I look, and that none of these ow even come close compared to me. H was describing one of the ow body type to D and he said TO HER it's not as good as mine....WTF. I don't need that kinda crazy anywhere near me. This is actually making it easier to realize, yeah... He's waaaaaaaayyyyy gone. Wow.
Why so many? Sick, sick, sick. Icky. And there is no EA. Shouldn't there be? Is this common?
Haha....well....the crazy keeps getting crazier. Just like the vets said....I'm so glad to know that I can rest, and I will no longer worry about H because:
1. I didn't break him, and I can't fix him
2. I have zero control over what he does
3. He is a liar and I can't believe anything he says
4. He has a looooong way to go and I'm going further away, a la, Fast and Furious style.
Yeah....I got suckered. I was believing he needed me, and I felt sorry for him...I still kind of do. But I'm not sinking on his ship. <<<<. Now I see the difference.
I got this. Oh, I'm gonna be ok.....I'm gonna shine on, shine on, shine on.... It was a ping of pain, and wrapped in an ugly form of mental imagery....but it was a gift. And I know it was a gift because of how I feel today. Grateful.
They don't necessarily have to have an EA or PA. Some just go off and do their own thing such as become workaholics, living on the couch and staring at 4 walls, gardening, fishing, become obsessive over some hobby or even taking a trip around the world in a sail boat...but no, many don't have someone waiting in the wings.
Sorry to hear this, Shining.
(On my phone so apologies for errors.)
Yes. As Cadet would have told me; no matter how much he seems like he's reconnecting and getting his head out of his arse, the multiple OW (real or imagined) strongly point to the fact that he is still deep in replay.
Add in his inappropriate comments to your daughter and it's clear he is still so messed up.
Sadly, there is nothing to be done but to hang in there and keep on keeping on.
For myself, if I hadn't known about GUBU's Viagra and dating websites, I'd be happily laboring under the misconception that things were getting better.
Maybe they are, in a way, as long as he thinks his secrets are being kept.
But I want REALITY. HONESTY.
And I'm sure you do, too.
Who cares if they tell us everything we want to hear while simultaneously carrying on their little private fantasies?
Well...I CARE.
It's not acceptable, even if it's just "online flirting" or whatever.
So I feel ya, Shining. I do.
Yes. They can look at us and say "There goes the best I ever had".
There "goes".... And they can't stop themselves from letting it happen.
Which is why, in my case anyway, a "Wake-Up Buttercup" 2X4 upside that melon head might be called for.
What are we? CHOPPED LIVER??
-------GGG
((((((Hugs to Shining)))))))
It's scary when you get a glimpse into their train of crazy thoughts. It's been hitting me more and more...the reality of his wackadoo thinking. It's painful, but freeing because at least there's the validation that we couldn't have fixed this anyhow. This kinda crazy can't be fixed with a little love an a bandaid.
Thank you, Job...the taking a trip around the world in a small boat....where can I book this for H?
GGG, yep, I'm not wasting my time on that anymore. I'm learning. One 2x4 at a time...lol. I'll have enough to build a big house... No, a RESORT!!! "The LBS". Spa, therapy, concerts, dancing, sports, sunshine, art classes, inspirational guest speakers, free child and pet facilities, on-site doctors, salons, GAL activities....fabulous shopping for clothes and shoes....no rollercoasters, lol...WOAH. I digress.
AAAANNNNNNDDDDD.... just got spewed. Classic. First one in a long time. .
Oh, yeah.... So, after almost no texting between us in the past days, out of nowhere, I just got, "I'm still upset about things that happened that led to our split. (My son) S18 moving to live with your xh is messed up. You are all hypocrites. I have to just keep moving forward."
Then, H, move forward. Please. Because you're clearly stuck.
Ahhhhhh. Is that the sun? Beautiful outside.
Sorry you had to hear about the ows. Some have EAs, some have PAs, some just ride off. No way to tell which one you'll get.
Life is like a box of chocolates....LOL!
The cuckoo is flying around the clock, S. Cant find the door to get in.
Here's the thing. They are sick. Let's face it, they are. Who does this stuff? I mean really.
But, we cant fix crazy. We cant really even understand it.
So, the best we can do is acknowledge it, find some compassion for it and then back away....way away.
The things he is saying to his daughter...shame on him. But it just proves crazy even more. They dont get it. They cant see it. They are inside their own heads. It is all about them.
But deep down, they are in pain. I know its hard to see that when you see then doing what they are doing. But it's true, S.
They are trying anything they possibly can to numb the feelings. Anything that can make them feel better even just for a moment.
It really is sad to think of what they do in order to feel something.
But thats not your problem or your job.
The focus has to be on you and the kids. Let him blow in the wind right now.
Hard as it it, the sooner you really and truly accept that he is gonzo, the easier it will get for you.
I’m curious, does he know that his D19 tells you everything?
Just wanted to address some stuff you wrote.
.... just got spewed. Classic. First one in a long time. .
Knew one was coming. He mad cuz you arent playing....oh well, succks for him. His choice, this. There may be more. Do not engage.
I think I may need to get out with people. I don't have friends now that are comfortable around me, and I don't care to reach out, all jobless and rejected, and meet new ones. It scares me. I feel weird. But it's time to go back to the Life store.
I get this. I really do. I know there is an emphasis on here about GAL and people think they have to run out and do all these things and join all these groups. Really, to me it means to just think about you for once. Think about something you may like to try or learn. Doesnt have to be this big committment. But it is important not to isolate yourself. That just adds to the down feelings. There are things at libraries, meet ups, through parks departments. You dont even have to talk to anyone at first if you dont feel up to it. Just think about something that may interest you and find a way to incorporate it into your life a bit.
This is another thing I'm learning about me.... Self inflicted 2x4 coming... I have explored some of my issues, but not all. I have wiggled my way out of some uncomfortable stuff, or shut down, or didn't trust the counselor enough to share, or whatever excuse I choose at the moment to skip stuff. And I don't know what, and I don't know why. I read anything I can get my hands on. I try to apply what I learn. I want to be so independent and figure it out, but I'm not really accountable to anyone now to know if I am doing it...except here .
I don't trust my instincts right now in choosing an IC. How have any of you all found good ones?
I can tell you why...cuz I lettered in it...it is fear. Fear of figuring it out. Fear of what it means. Fear of having to do anything about it. It is hard, hard work to face your stuff. But, man, when you do, it is life changing. You do have to get past the really crappy parts of digging into things you would rather not face, but, I promise you, if you can, you will never regret it.
It took me 4 tries with different therapists before I found my angel. I just kept trying because it was too important. When I went to her the first time, I just knew.
This is important, S. The most important thing you can do for you. But you have to be 100% committed or it doesnt work.
Facing the fear requires a leap of faith. Take it, my friend.
I KNEW calling myself out on that stuff would not slip past you, uR. I even revisited my last thread, and thought that perhaps due to the positioning of the post, and being at the end of the thread....it may skim by unnoticed....ha. Denial. See how I try to weasel out of stuff sometimes???
But, in my mind dump, I was really crying for help. At the same time, afraid of the help. Yep, fear.
I'll get back to that^^^^.
Oh, he mad....heehee. Shining didn't engage. (Pats self on back, high 5's, knuckle bump, and secret congratulatory handshake). I'm expecting more. And I'm planning on letting it roll off like water on duck feathers. It's weird, but it kind of confirms again, that this sure isn't just a case of the hiccups. This is bigger than anything I can fathom.
Lots going on that would stress even a normal person.... Moving, lying to me about it, ow#1 back, who knows.....maybe he wasn't able to "perform" last night as he had hoped. (Mooohoohoo, aahhhahhhaaaa) <<< maniacal laugh.
But yeah, I was kinda thinking it's been brewing since the opening up about his dads, kids, etc. last weekend. Following the MLC patterns a bit.
I like what you wrote about not having to GAL in a big group kind of way. I'm not a bar chick. I like your suggestions. Especially finding a class. Totally doable.
Oh, back to the fear..... I'm that. I'm so "that" and I don't even know what "that" is. Something is keeping me afraid and I can't figure it out. The stuff I've explored with past counselors was helpful, but I know there's still something I'm missing. I'm open to any different techniques on digging.
It's like I'm missing a piece of my brain, like a stroke victim and I can't access something. Idk. It's bugging me. Maybe it isn't even anything big. Just unfinished small stuff. What do other people do with this?
Bright, H knows SD19 and I have texted, but I doubt he knows she tells me this stuff. D19 says he's so into himself he's clueless about what she and her brother do. They are drinking his booze...and more. It's awesome.
"Old" H didn't trust her one bit with any information. There was a LOT of go- between his D19 did for years with H and his xw. She played that game well. H used to tell me, to be careful, and that anything I tell D19 will get back to her mother...or get posted on fb (yep, that happened, early on...I talked to her and she hasn't in months).
"Old" H was very strict on morals, what is and isn't appropriate to discuss with kids, that they would never be allowed to drink or smoke around him (they did at their mother's). And now that's all out the window. How confusing for them. My kids, too. We've had to talk about some of it. It's embarrassing. He's a stranger.
Shining - I am also not a 'big group' GAL'er, generally - I'm an introvert - but UR is right about the isolation part. So my GAL'ing has been mixed...meditation classes (can 'share' as much or as little as you want with the class, but do your own thing, and so great for helping you deal with what all is going on in your life), yoga classes (again, you're doing your own thing, but with the class), DivorceCare group (lots of sharing there, but a great experience), biking, running, paddleboarding (all those things alone, generally), and one Meetup group meeting so far, which I really enjoyed. And any volunteer activities are really great too. You can choose to work with groups of others, or some are more solitary activities, but all have their rewards! You will feel better right away, when you get out. I can tell, Shining, you have much to offer the world out there!
All I can so is sit here and laugh shining right along with you, most certainly not at you.
Row your boat, hokey pokey and the chicken dance all are great mlc gal activities.
When they fail try I'm exhausted from the emotional abuse she dishes up, a spew on the lbs, or some stalking bahviour.
Seems we have lots of ow, I cannot keep up, I simple have no time. I work atm about 46 hours per week plus an hour and a half driving return.
Hands shining the matches and lighter fluid have a mlc funeral pyre, nice and dramatic gives great warmth and will make sure you have plenty of hot fire men to supervise it for you.
All positive in my book! Douh, me I'm thick. Johnny dep look alike asked me out, very cool shuttle and I said? .? Nothing to encourage him, update on the thread.
Sorry I didnt let those things slip by....NOT! LOL!
So, fear was, and still is at times, my biggest problem, hurdle, nemisis. It is my kryptonite for sure.
I had it all...fear of failure, fear of success, fear of abandonment, fear of disapproval. There wasnt a fear I didnt feel.
I wanted to find out why I was so fearful. My therapist and I talked about it ad naseum. It had to do with my childhood, of course, and a whole host of other things.
Because of my mom's drinking I learned to always wait for the other shoe to drop. If she was in a goofy happy drunk mood when we got home from school, that meant we had 15-20 minutes of time before it would change dramatically. If she was grumpy ,we had less time. The next day she'd act as if nothing bad or violent had occurred the night before so I learned to not trust my perceptions...and instead to trust my fears.
At one point, my therapist said, "Sometimes it doesnt matter why you fear because knowing why isnt going to make it stop. Just doing it is what is. Just walking into it. Facing it. Realizing that regret is bigger than fear. Understanding that most of what we fear doesnt come true. Sometimes you just have to take the first step even when you dont see the whole staircase."
I would be lying if I told you that was all it took. I would be lying if I told you that I still dont have fear.
But I feared I wouldnt make it through this and I did.
I think you should explore the feelings you have, S. Try to dig deep. Write it all down. Go back to when you first remember feeling that way. It's important to try to understand and its important to just walk through it.
Fear is an excellent place to start.... Deep breath...yeah, I have work to do.
Funny, though... Growing up? I was FEARLESS. Mom called me "monkey" because I climbed EVERYTHING I could, in the house, at the store, in the yard... Then, for some reason, I had to hang upside-down. I was a weird kid, lol. I loved heights. I was a complete dare-devil, adrenaline junkie. I also talked to strangers. All of them. Introduced strangers to other stranger. Who did I think I was? Omg... But I didn't like men with mustaches, lol. I had no fear about anything. I had other issues as a kid.... But fear wasn't one.
Fear came later.
And it hit hard. I feared my 1st h. I can't think of anything that scared me before him. I had been through a ton of stuff before he came along, but none of that scared me... I was still brave, strong and confident. Crud.
I'm gonna take a second and think about this one because I'm getting upset and I need to sit in it and figure out why. More later...
I'm sorry you are getting upset...and then I'm not, ya know? You are digging in here, S. But you can do this. No one can hurt you unless you allow them to.
So, when you are ready, if you are ready...we can talk this out or not...your choice. I will understand and support whatever you choose.
In the meantime I wanted to share another fear of mine. Fear of the loss of me. Yea, that was a big one. That one came true. It was as bad as I imagined, too. But I found me, thank God, and I wont ever lose me again.
I wanted to tell you how special I think you are, S, and how brave and funny and interesting you are, too.
This is a journey you were meant to go on. I know it deep in my soul. It's gonna be quite the ride, but, I am excited for you.
Thank you, uR. Naw, it's ok, I've been upset before. Lol. I just needed to clear my head because I stunned myself. Sometimes out of nowhere stuff gets unburied...
Interesting that you mentioned fear of loss of you... That's EXACTLY what I did. Twice, perhaps....jury is still out....
But, backing up a bit....
So, my parents announced they were getting a D, on my 18th birthday. Mom used to deny the date coincidence, but that isn't something one forgets. There was A LOT of baggage that came up...suddenly. My brother and I had discovered the previous summer while snooping through old file cabinets, that we had a half sister. WHAAAATTTT???? My dad fathered a child before marrying my mom. He didn't find out until the child was around 10, but mom and dad had to pay child support after dad was served. He didn't contest it. Mom resented. They hid that from us. Hey, it was the 70's, and that's what ya did, right? Who knew? Family secrets??? Pssshhh.... Those were for other families.
Senior year, my dad had lost his job, and his ability to work, due to his alcoholism. Mom acted out, got p-oed, filed, and checked out. Then she dated....everyone. We listed our house, and mom and I moved into one apartment, and brother and dad in another apartment. This was my senior year, just before graduation. I was sooooo ashamed. I didn't want anyone to know. So I didn't tell anyone. I tried to stay under the radar, and pretty much disappeared from everyone I knew after we moved.
Seeds planted : fear, shame, abandonment, insecurity, trust gone...for starters....
Im sorry, Shining. That's a whole lotta crap to have to deal with at a young age....and an important one in the life of a young woman.
Yep, I had some of the same seeds planted. It's safe to say that your sense of worth was challenged, to say the least.
I know that mine was. While I loved my xh very much, I believe that who I was at the time directly correlated with whom I chose as I husband.
So, the seeds were planted and then you went out into the world.....
Shining just caught up on new thread. Wish we could sit down over coffee and compare notes. Not that it is "nice" to see the similarities between my h and your xh but it does make me feel less crazy
And the whole conversation about fear. I am so there. When I first started looking within and realizing that I was a control freak I worked real hard to fix it. Yoga meditation and meds. I am so chill now. Everyone but h noticed a difference. But that was only the tip of the iceberg and I had to figure out why I was so controlling and it came down to fear. I don't remember any fear before s was born and we thought he might not survive. Now I am afraid of everything. Like UrWorthy said... fear of failure fear or success fear of change and fear that things won't change. I am completely stuck on an exercise in a workbook I am doing about my needs being met in childhood.
You had some good realizations you mentioned in your last post. It is hard work. It will take a long time. But I have to believe we will be, better and stronger for it.
Yep. Went out in the world. Mom met now stepdad.... After 6 months or so. Meanwhile... Ok, thankfully this is anonymous... I graduated high school and proceeded to date one of my teachers..... For a short time. Said teacher was much more serious than me, and I wanted nothing to do with THAT.... but it kinda messed with my head... It was as if all I thought I ever knew, wasn't.
Mom told me after 9 months in that apartment, that she was moving in with stbh... And I was "allowed" to finish the lease for the last 3 months, but would then need to find a home. I moved in with my grandparents, my boyfriend's parents, my boyfriend, my mom, my dad, my boyfriend again, my mom again, and an apartment with friends....this pattern went on, a total of 16 times. Until I met h #1.
I met xh on Valentine's day = must be fate! (you know, hearts and stuff).
I'm so special you stalked me and followed me back to my friend's apartment= GOT to be fate because no one's EVER done this before!!!! .
H was in a "rescuing" profession= I needed to be rescued = it's even MORE fate!
Omg, H birthday is the SAME as my grandfather??? = TOTALLY meant to be.
Oh, you're adopted but of course, you have completely worked through any potential abandonment issues, your mother had suicidal bi-polar disorder, electro shock treatments, your dad had 3 quadruple bypass surgeries and suffered migraines and was MIA for years?? And all that is unresolved??? Where do I sign up???
Oh, I hit the lottery.
Haha.... Whoooops! Forgot to mention the fascination with guns....
Must have blocked that one out.
Completely humiliated.
Just received a text from a former coworker who saw my H profile on "match"...... Out there with pics for all to see. What an a$$hat.
I want to call and yell at him. Do I ask him about it? Like why doesn't he grow a pair and just file already???
He doesn't think I now he dating...but he's putting himself out on a public dating website!!!!
I suppose it was only a matter of time.... I knew he was on match a few days ago. I deliberately didn't look him up. I have the ability to not snoop because I need to protect myself from more hurt. But I'm so angry and embarrassed. How do MLC M ever turn around? Is it even worth it? I know this is his journey, but how do I detach when it feels so "in my face"? It just keeps getting messier.
Yep, Shining.
I'm in that club, too.
Stings a bit.
I looked a few times, then stopped. It was just too hurtful to read about how he was "selling himself" as a great catch on there.
Just a bunch of wishful thinking.
(I hesitate to say "outright LIES"....)
At some point I feel I must confront this, but now is not the time--for me anyway.
Sorry, Shining.
---GGG
Welcome to the world of MLC. I can understand the humiliation, but this is typical behavior of someone in crisis. They are out there searching the world for their soul mates and what better way to do this but w/the electronic mediums. He's living out a fantasy and he's trying to find someone who doesn't know him and will stroke his ego and spark some interest in him. Whether it goes any further than email/text exchanges, time will tell.
Do you call and yell at him? No, you make copies of anything and everything that he spends money on. You may need to make copies of some of the exchanges if possible just in case you need the proof later on. You'll find out more if you sit quietly and observe. Keep in mind, the more you confront him, the more determined he's going to be to do what he needs to do to get through his crisis. Also, the more you point out what he's doing, the more determined he will be that he's making the right decision to do the things he's doing. Don't get him that justification.
Mlcers will do a lot of things that they normally would not have done pre-crisis and there's nothing you can do about it. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. He's got to figure things out on his own and you do not want to act like his mother and point fingers at him when he does this stuff. You have to learn to bide your time and post here to vent. I know it's difficult, but sit quietly, more info will drop into your lap when you least expect it.
It's ok.... I got this. I've been here before. Anger is normal. He cray cray. If he can find a better woman then more power to him. Keep looking, jerk, that's the only way you'll know, I guess. I'm riding the coaster.... I'm good. I'll recover.
Do you know what's really good about this???!?!
1. My recovery time seems faster
2. I'm not crying...a little before but not now.
3. My track record for getting through rough days so far is 100% and that's pretty good.
And now, back to "Me."
Shining,
Good for you for knowing that snooping will hurt only YOU.
After I found GUBU's dating profile, I think I lost about five pounds again.
Although not as bad as some previous "episodes" of dealing his his actions, it obviously really upset me.
Listen to job ^^^^.
I deliberately have not mentioned this although it's on the tip of my tongue every time he says something like "I'm not doing anything to hurt you!"
I tell myself, it's just fantasy.
He doesn't have the self-esteem to prosper in the dating game. But he sure as heck likes to play around online.
Online, our Hs can be "Mr. Wonderful" instead of "Mr. Screwup".
And unsuspecting women will give them the attention they desperately seek.
Of course, many of the women are liars too!
But if they never actually meet, or even if they do, they don't have to stop pretending unless they want things to become real.
And real would be...well...it would be like US.
Our Hs can't get that from us now because we know their "faults".
We don't see them as perfect knights coming to our rescue.
And instead of seeing these as problems to be overcome, it's easier to just hide them from the world and surround themselves with people who don't know the dirty little secrets about what they've done to the people who care most about them.
(Another "reason" why I have to go, in GUBU's opinion. The mask is off. And we can't have that!)
So--no finger pointing, just ignore as much as you can.
Focus on what they're doing RIGHT.
I lose sight of that sometimes myself when I get caught up in the negative.
---GGG
PS: Shining: "I want to call and yell at him. Do I ask him about it? Like why doesn't he grow a pair and just file already???"
I would strongly advise against this, not that you really would, I hope!
I did that when GUBU tortured me for two months with not serving me after he filed.
I said almost exactly those words. And he took me up on it. Served me the next day.
So be careful what you wish for!
Thanks, job. I didn't call him, nor will I bring it up. I can see where that is tempting, but it will not get me closer to what I want, it will take me farther away. I'm ignoring it, as far as he's concerned....I know nothing. I haven't even mentioned the seemingly "obvious" comments here and there, or something in a photo I would have questioned before all this started... I keep my mouth shut now. I go more quickly now from sad, to angry, and now I'm feeling more embarrassed for him. Like if/when the fog lifts, how difficult it will be for him or realize all he's done. It makes me wonder whether he could face it, or if he will remain stuck. I have the gift of this board and such wonderful support, I have the awareness to process things now. He doesn't. That must be a living he!!.
GGG, I completely agree....he is trying on "cool guy" costumes right now. It's pathetic. The only women attracted to that? Deserve it....ew. They can have creepy guy. I don't know who he is right now. This MLC world is unbelievable. Why isn't there more awareness out there? How is this so hard to diagnose? If not for this board and a few books, I would have been D already with no hope, I would be blaming myself for everything, and probably seeking a "bandaid man" of my own.
I know!
Unfortunately, there are plenty of women out there with really low standards.
Just read whatisis's thread about online dating.
It's hysterical!
The mere fact that their possible "matches" are breathing and have access to the Internet seems to be enough for some people.
I too would have divorced GUBU way back in the beginning if I hadn't found this board.
But through research, even then, I knew he was in a MLC. I got a book about it.
(Which he got angry about, saying that HE wasn't in a MLC, and sent a picture of it to OW saying: "HAHAHA! How crazy is Goat Gal? THIS crazy! SHE thinks I'm having a MLC, when in fact, WE both know that I'm just a stud in LOVE with his (would-be) granddaughter!!!" I found all this out later. And now it makes me laugh.
I wonder if he remembers... Maybe I should leave that book lying around again. See what he thinks!)
Yes. Something is really wrong with them. No doubt about it. But even though it seems everyone around them--who has their act together--can see that they're really making a mess of things, they can't see it.
Then they go and surround themselves with messed up people who support their choices--including new Online Pals---and it's a recipe for disaster.
Hang in there, kiddo.
---GGG
Welcome to the world of MLC.
And things just keep getting weirder.... Just now, I got a word game invite from H.
Are you kidding me???? Lol....You couldn't even make this stuff up. He is so all over the place...wow. He was low and opening up last weekend, then quiet and withdrawn for a couple of days, then angry and blaming, then seeking dates, and now we're phone game friends again? I'm not playing.
Just wanted to post the cycle of this week for journaling purposes... Why am I even shocked anymore.
GGG, thanks, I'll check out that thread!
Shining,
This: "Completely humiliated."
Is stink in' thinkin'.
But you know that.
No one can humiliate you! You have nothing to be ashamed about.
I felt that when I first caught on that many of my neighbors thought I was a slut.
They made assumptions about me and my situation without knowing the truth.
Him: Older, he filed against me, he's always working hard, seems like a great guy.
Me: Younger, (way hotter!) out dancing with other men.
Therefore, I cheated on him, right?
At first I thought "humiliated" suited how I felt.
Then I realized that I had done nothing to be humiliated about.
The correct interpretation of my feelings was "VIOLATED."
People were WAY into my business when they saw that divorce notice in the paper. (Before I knew anything about it too.)
I shared this with H at the time. He said, simply: "Sorry".
I was embarrassed, but more for him than for me.
I decided I would hold my head high, and set the record straight, not about him, but about me.
I said I loved him, was a good wife to him, but he just got to a point where he no longer wanted to be married. End of story.
So. Maybe find a better word? Because "humiliated" isn't cutting it.
---GGG
GGG.....Yup. See what I did there?? I made it about me. It's not about me. I'm not humiliated, you're right. Violated is far more accurate. Definitely stinkin' thinkin' and I have enough stink with 3 teenaged boys and my dog... Don't need more.
I was trying on the "victim" costume for a minute, that's all.
Shining,
I'm so sorry. That's a sukky feeling although in time you may realize that you just feel embarrassed for him in general. It's a strange feeling when you become more detached. However, you sort of think, " Gosh! Poor guy looks ridiculous."
Remember this is about him-not you. Please know that there at so many desperate, damaged folk who would get into a relationship with Beelzebub should the opportunity presents itself.
My friend, I am sorry you had to hear that information. It is hurtful no matter where you are in all of this.
I agree with what the others wrote. In his crazy mind, he has to see this through. He thinks if he doesnt, he will never know if he could be happy. Whatev. It doesnt work. But he doesnt know that.
So, it stung for a bit. Would be worried if it didnt. You have nothing at all to be ashamed of. That's on him.
MLC = state of confusion.
I dont know why it isnt recognized more. It is so widespread.
Leave him to his crazy. Let him spin and spin.
You arent getting anywhere near that whirlwind. You dont want to get any of it on you.
So, you didnt choose so great the first time. I think you can see clearly now why you did choose him. So much clearer from all the way back here, right?
You are doing wonderfully. Keep going.
It hurts.
When my wife left I did the free signup for match.com because I was hurt and angry and want to see what I had to look forward to. I did nothing with it and basically forgot about it except they kept send possible matches to my email. One day last winter while reviewing my emails I got a strong urge to open the match mail and see what my possible matchs looked like. Was I surprised to see my wifes face looking out at me. She had registered the day before and was a high 90s match. To tweak her as I was angry to see her doing this, I opened up my profile and added a picture then opened hers so she knew that I knew. Did not gain anything for me and made me hurt all over again.
We all have to learn to let go and not snoop as it just catches up with us.
LT, ugh, it stinks that you know this feeling, and I'm sorry for that. I have never been a "snooper". I know his profile is there, I can look It up if I choose. I really don't want to know. If it doesn't help me, then it has no place in my head. I don't have room for anymore negative, lol.
My brother was snoopy, growing up. He snooped at all of his Christmas gifts in the closet. I didn't want to know. I wanted the surprise. It was my brother who snooped in our parent's file cabinet and found out about our half sibling... He called me down to look because he was freaking out, beside himself.
When I first started suspecting H was hiding things, heck, even before that. I never snooped his emails, texts, calls, his closet... Maybe I should have been more snoopy, in hindsight. But what would it have changed? I don't want to be that person. And I don't want to be with a person I can't trust. I shouldn't have to snoop, is my position. But, it was also the "clueless" mindset that let I my guard down and allowed this in.
uR, I am really seeing how desperate H is to search the world over for something he has all along...like Dorothy, at the end of The Wizard of Oz...lol... He has to get all the way down that brick road, meet some strange characters, including flying monkeys and witches... Ugh. Hopefully he'll get there. And he'll see there is no "Great Oz". Behind the curtain, he will learn it's all a facade. And he can look inside.
So.... After I met h#1....
Mistake #1: (xh #1)
We were engaged in 4 weeks. We didn't marry until a little over a year afterward. I was completely swept off my feet like I never had been before. I felt like he was a knight in shining armor (first big red flag). He WANTED to take care of me. He was ABLE to take care of me. I NEEDED to be taken care of, for once. What more does a marriage need????
Oh, yeah.
1. Respect
2. Compatibility
3. Trust
...for starters.
Psshhh. Who needs THAT when there's soooooo muuuuuch loooooovvvvee!!!! (...gag...)
So, "taking care of me", turned into "doing everything for me." He then turned it into, "well, you CAN'T do anything, because you're worthless and stupid." And, of course, was followed by, "I now control your every waking moment, and therefore I must know where you are, and who you're with at all times". <<<<< (Flying red flags everywhere)
I had no control of our bank account. Wait, clarifying... It was never "our" bank account. My name went on HIS account...(another big red flag). Here's the thing... In the beginning, I bought into this as a good idea. I mean, he was so good with money, and I shouldn't have to worry about that stuff because he will take care of it as the man of the house. (More gagging, now with some stomach acid...)
My mother saw xH true colors at our wedding. There was a miscommunication about the following day and where we would all meet. H bipolar mother was confused, and told xH that no one invited her....xH went directly to my mother and yelled at her. At our reception. She held it together through the next day. Then she told me what happened.
Well, what does a girl like me do when my Mom has been disrespected by my new h? You're darn right I did!! I cut her out of my life!!! I think he term is "alienated."
And so it began.
His controlling crept up on me sooooo, so slow, though...I didn't even see it happening. I feel like I woke up one day and went, "wait, is this even normal?"
I was in a controlling R? Me??!!! The smart, independent, strong woman I am...controlled?? You've got to be kidding.
So I thought....hmmmm..... I better start pushing back. That's a great idea. I'll change the rules in the middle of the game that h is so comfortable with. I'm SURE it will fix everything.
Well, that didn't quite work.... It got rocky.
After we were married one year, H dad died of a heart attack. H became even angrier, due to circumstances of his father's death, which were beyond his control.
Then I got pregnant with the twins.
I was 25 weeks along, and I started having severe pains. I thought it was just gas. Better go in, get looked at, check things out....you know, just to be sure. It's probably nothing. Denialdenialdenialdenial....Hmmm... Nope. Remember that rug I was standing on? Yeah, that got pulled out.
Went to the hospital, then transported code 3 to downtown hospital for higher level care...baby #1 foot was out. Yaaayyy. Got to hospital, had an emergency procedure to keep that little foot back in. Then, for 2 and a half weeks, I was laid up a la "Trendelenberg", (using gravity to keep it all in...bed tilted with my head lower than my hips...boobs smothering my face...it was awesome). They had to weigh me daily, on a hoist. Like a whale. Not even kidding. I've never really felt sexier. I was shot up with steroids and other fun stuff, and there I was. Cooking.
Babies were born at 28 weeks. 2 lb 6 oz. They were perfect other than being early and their lungs underdeveloped...but they came along great, and went home in only 8 weeks.
It was scary, though. Not all of the other babies in the unit made it through, and I met many parents of those babies. Lots of roller coaster riding in those weeks, worrying, wondering if they'll be ok, if they'll be normal. Am I even normal anymore...
I learned this was xh#1 comfort zone, though. We always got along fine during trauma. Or sickness. It was the healthy times that killed us, lol.
Do I ask him about it? Like why doesn't he grow a pair and just file already???
Ummmm....Shining......why don't YOU grow a pair and file already??
Do you really want to show him - or your kids - that it's ok for him to be married to you but out there dating multiple women?
I know you hope for restoration of your marriage, but oddly enough, that's usually MORE likely to happen if you stand up for yourself and don't allow them to disrespect you.
You can approach it in a straightforward but non-snarky way: "H, I received a call from a coworker about your online dating profile. I would appreciate it if you would hurry up and file for divorce (Or, alternatively, "I am going to be filing for divorce next week and just wanted to give you a heads up")."
This was not a 20 year marriage. There are other red flags in his past history. Odds are that the "perfect" husband he seemed to be early in your relationship was actually a mirage.
If he really IS that great guy, he'll return to his senses eventually, and being divorced would not stop him from returning if you were the love of his life. But it's also possible that he's someone who just can't keep up the facade for more than a few years. And he would have to do a BOATLOAD of work before it would be acceptable to reconcile with him.
So get your legal and financial freedom, throw a monkey wrench into his fantasy that he can date all these women and you'll still be waiting in the wings as plan B, and let him face the consequences of his actions - the only possible way for growth to occur (although never guaranteed).
Kml, yes, I guess I could file.
My question of why H doesn't, just file was more of me trying to understand the thought process of someone in MLC, and how they justify their behavior to themselves and others while being married.
Reasons I don't?
First, it is not what I want to do. I come here to vent and sort things out, learn and get through. I may change my mind. But, today, I don't want a divorce
Second, I believe in this process.
Third, I don't require child support or anything from H, and financially, it benefits me to remain married.
My intention is not to show anyone, H or my kids, that it's ok for him to be married to me but dating multiple women. My kids don't know about the multiples. Just ow#1 who is gone.
My intention is to show my kids that marriage is serious, and you fight as hard as you can before walking away. H is sick. They know this, they were present for the suicide attempt. Through the past months, this experience, and lots of counseling, they have a very good understanding that this isn't what a "normal" person does, this isn't just "ok". It is disrespectful, but my belief is that the disrespect is part of the fall-out effect. Not the intent on the MLC part. His only intention is easing his own pain, without regard to me.
I'm guessing some posts on my thread have made it unclear, and my h#1 story may be getting confused with current H. Although my current H and I have only been together for 6 1/2 years, I've known him since we were 13. I know his family. H isn't the one with all the red flags. Current H flipped 180. Even H family sees it. If h has been wearing a mask, then it's been all his life, which I suppose is possible.
I felt that H's relationships with his kids and ex were big red flags - sure, he had explanations for them, but they may look a little different in the light of current events.
And your SD knows about the multiples, it may not be long before your kids do too.
Understanding about his depression and trying to wait it out is one thing, but make sure you have some healthy boundaries - your past history suggests you may have issues in that department, and "standing" is not always the best option for people whose histories suggests codependent behaviors. Plus, you CAN stand OUTSIDE a marriage.
If it's financially better for you to remain legally married, I respect that - but make sure you aren';t just leaving yourself open to liability for unpaid debts or taxes that H may accumulate in his illness.
Kml, I agree about the red flags with his kids. Time will tell whether he resolves those issues. My kids don't interact with SD, then or now. But yes, they very likely will find out more than I wish. I'll have to make that call if/when the time comes how best to proceed.
The boundary thing has been a challenge for me, for sure. I definitely have codependent behaviors that will make things more difficult, as I'm already learning. I appreciate the insight, as it gives me more to consider.
I would not be completely surprised if, after the new apartment, ow, nothing "makes" h happy, he may move forward and file because he still can't figure it out. Trying to prepare for that possibility. It's not my preference, but I do know it wouldn't be the end of the world.
We have no debt. I'm monitoring the retirements and credit report. So far, he's still paying all bills, and there has been no crazy spending (only crazy style choices, lol) ... But I'm watching, and prepared to act on a D if I need to.
Shining, while there are similarities in a MLC, it is also personal to the people in it. We all bring different circumstances, history and personalities into the mix.
So, you decide what is best for you.
I will say this. I wanted to be able to tell my son that I did everything I could to save my marriage if he asked...and he did ask.
I explained that I made a vow that I wanted to honor because I believed in it. I told him that committment and family matter. I said that was my decision at this time and I could not speak for his father.
I will tell you that it mattered to him that I stood. I do wish I handled the financial aspect differently or rather more quickly. I owed half of a huge debt I knew nothing about. In order to have curtailed that, I would have had to file sooner.
But that is knowing now what I didnt know then.
KML is right in that many come back when they see that we have really and truly moved on. But, that can also mean that they come back before doing the work.
Db usually suggests not exposing the affair as that gives it importance.
I believe they are in crisis. That doesnt give them a free pass on their actions. They will have to face those one day.
I am glad that you are keeping a close eye on the finances. Please be diligent there.
As far as your kids, it is important that they see that you are moving forward, becoming strong, and living your life.
I believe that you will know what to tell them when the time comes.
You have to be absolutely ready to file for divorce and I can see you arent.
So, leave him to his ridiculousness.
You will know when you need to do something different.
For right now, keep looking inward, keep figuring out you. That's what's most important.
You do not have to choose anything today.
Hey Shining! I am getting a little caught up with you... That week or few days off I got behind, then I was so caught up in my own drama....
First, I am so sorry to hear about the match posting. That is heartbreaking. To think that he has to look for someone who he thinks will rock his world, or whatever, when he has YOU! Probably the best thing to happen to him, and he can't even see it. Man, they get so caught up in fantasy, that reality is totally gone. I am sorry, that's tough.
Here is something I have learned (for me) and I want to share with you. Take lots and lots and lots of time before you say anything. You will find that it helps for many reasons. For one, it will help with processing without reacting. Then you will be able to work things better. Plus with that, when he is expecting a reaction and don't give him one (works well with lots of practice) he will really take notice.
Giving it time also helps you think things through. Sometimes we can process it and throw it away without even bothering to react (where he would know or to him). We may realize that it wasn't even worth reacting to or bringing up.
And, when you give it time, the things worth addressing will be evident. You will have time to really mull it over. When the right time comes, it will then be addressed, in a way you really know what you are talking about. You have time to think about it, process it, and address it.
As you know, I have been holding things in for awhile. And believe me I have given it A LOT of thought. I think xh was VERY surprised he didn't hear from me. I didn't reach out at all. And since I just unleashed this week, everything I said had been though about for quite some time. Everything I said had a very valid point. They were some serious truth darts. It wasn't just me losing control and screaming because I was ticked off and reacting. He called me to talk about s which lead to the discussion.
I wasn't even going to say anything then, but he kept pushing the issue. I hit him up and down. It was all truth and reality. And I brought up so many things that he had been lying about and hiding and he had NO IDEA that I knew. Imagine his surprise that I never said a word. I never called him out. I never "reacted" to it. He called me and pushed the conversation. It was time. I am so glad I waited. I knew exactly what was important to be addressed. It was not at all a result of me being upset by him. He called me. His actions were starting to surface with s and us being called into a mtg with the counselor, psychologist, coach and both parents for an "emergency meeting."
Hang in there Shining! You are amazing and doing so well. You will find the things that make you stronger, but you are already so strong.
Ummmm....Shining......why don't YOU grow a pair and file already??
Ummmm… I thought it was Divorce Busing, Save Your Marriage site… Sometimes I wonder why some people get one advice and others get complete opposite…
Thank you, uR, Mighty, and Bright for the support. Bright, yep, that's the reason I came to this board. I don't want a D.
I'm feeling a lot of anxiety the past few days. I had terrible nightmares last night. I'm dreading the closing of the house. Absolutely dreading it. It held such significance when we bought it. I know it sounds silly. I also know it's the best thing now. It has to go away. Too many bad memories there now. Memories that were bad for H before I knew it. It's part of the old life that has to die. The old M.
H has been almost NC for the past few days. He's not sending the friendly texts, good mornings, words are shorter. I'm not reading much meaning into this, other than it's just part of the flailing about crazy cycling they do, and it just is.
H is packing the kitchen and sent a few texts asking if I want stuff. I said no.
There is nothing I can do. Just staying out of the way. Still feeling in my gut that H doesn't really want to be doing all this, but he doesn't know how to stop hurting. It's so sad, and so out of control. I have backed waaaaayyyy off, though. Today was especially difficult. I caught myself many times looking at my phone. I had to get up and get a drink of water sometimes and stop myself.
It's not silly at all, S. This was your home, your children's home. This was part of a dream. Of course you are going to feel sad about it. Nothing wrong with that.
They often pull back when going through something like this. While he thinks it's what he wants, there are other things he is feeling.
So, what can you do to stop wanting to look at your phone. Is there a project you can start? A friend or family you can call? Can you write in a journal? Snap a rubberband on your wrist?
This is tough stuff, Shining. No way around that. Tough, sad stuff.
But you will feel better as you travel this. You are already getting stronger...:)
I like the rubber band idea.
My D13 and I bought foam board and we're making "vision boards". We're all kinda goal-setting now.
Being busy is going to be the key, for sure.
It is Divorcebusting. But it is not Be a Doormat and Hell Return. The best way to win him back at this point is to appear to be moving on without him. So long as he thinks you are Plan B he's got no reason to quit his adventures.
Also, as I told you a while ago, beware the effect on your kids if you reconcile. I thought I was doing the right thing by my kids by reconciling with their dad, but found out later they spent the next several years waiting for the other shoe to drop. Which it eventually did. Don't underestimate the damage to your kids, especially since he's their stepdad. He betrayed them and they may not want him back in their lives. If so you need to respect that too.
Shining you should check out the book Co-dependent No More
I've been reading up on some old, old threads....wow, some of you have been here a long time, and have been through a LOT. Now helping others. I'm hoping to pay it back (or forward...however that works) after I'm whole again. It's fun to read the histories of everyone, and gain some perspective on your personal experience. It makes sense that you post what you post.
.
I'm going to take a moment and think of some positives.
When I first came onto the board, I was lost. I thought we were taking a break. Nope. H had ow. I thought he would be mean to me forever, and run away with her....
Not even close.
The good things that have happened since April:
I'm learning how to be a better person, and partner. The skills of listening, STFU, validating, differentiation, dealing with co-dependence, keeping boundaries, having empathy, compassion, GAL so I have some self esteem in my pocket, and patience. The biggest? FORGIVENESS. Always forgiveness. It was my dad's biggest lesson he taught me. I never forgot. I apply it often, and I believe it is the key to freedom. Forgiveness doesn't mean doormat.
Other good things:
I have learned how to not feed the spewing, and the DB techniques have worked 100% of the time. His anger drops. It goes to someone else. Our exchanges are almost all pleasant now. If he does throw something....I do not react. It's awesome.
I have realized, although he's confused and needs to go on this journey:
H is still very attracted to me.
H has opened up about some things from is childhood
H is working on his R with his kids. <<<< huge,
Oh...H dumped ow. I knew he would.
We are a long way from the end....but I'm reflecting on how far I've come.
Letting the destruction continue. So we can build new. Together, or apart. I'll be ok. I got this.
You so do, Shining, you so do.
Shining, my sweets, you WILL be JUST fine...with or without this man. Mine is riding off into the sunset with a his drug-addled skank and seems to be perfectly content with his new life. And, guess what??? I'm ok. In fact, I'm better than OK. I'm pretty damn awesome. He has no idea what he's missed or what he is missing out on...
So, here's the deal. I was pretty stuck until I did some deep trenchwork on my own insides. I needed to dredge up a lot of shid to open myself up to the possibilities of a life without Smokey. He was a part of my life since I was 12. I need to do a groundup restoration of myself...foundations and all.
I suggest you do the same. It's painful and it means letting him GO...but, in the end, you discover yourself and realize you will ALWAYS have YOU and God and that's not gonna change no matter what life throws at you.
Ummmm… I thought it was Divorce Busing, Save Your Marriage site… Sometimes I wonder why some people get one advice and others get complete opposite…
I think this is a really interesting question. But, I'm beginning to get it. In my case, for instance, I was married to a load. Pretty much...a really damaged guy who was fairly content being damaged. It was safe. Time and again, (haphazardly throughout our life together) he tried to push himself outta his comfort zone for me and the kids...but, it never lasted...he always went back to what was safe and comfortable.
In my case, it's obvious that I was married to someone who really had no intention of moving out of this tunnel. He needs the tunnel for whatever reason. And, I have been holding myself back in my own life by dwelling on this loss of him. In my case, I needed to be pushed and prodded to move forward with my life.
Yes, I will always love him. I'm not sure I would ever be able to be married to him again...I think I'm towers above what he can offer now...but, I'm cool with that. I'm heading to the life that God intended for me. I really feel that. I feel that this is where God wants me...I've put myself on hold for toooooooo long...like 18 years too long.
Sometimes in life we are faced with a crossroads. We have to decide if we are content to continue on the path we know or...try something new. Very Robert Frost.
In recent months, God has put this into my heart..."Smokey is irrelevant Heather. This journey has always been about YOU. You were stuck. You needed a crowbar to push/pull/hammer yourself outta the position where you were wedged.
Love him from afar. Pray he figures it out. But, push yourself to look at why he is attractive in the first place. Push yourself to look at why you still want the person who caused all this pain to make it better, to heal the wound...he is the wounder...look to yourself to heal that wound. You will never, ever let you down once you get the hang of it.
I think this is what K was trying to say and I agree with her.
Look up Susan Anderson's Abandonment books. Codapendent NO MORE by Beattie...Look to strong, empowered women who have risen above similar situations and come out ok.
You can do this!!!
Shining, I like your list.
This journey you are on was meant to be. I believe that with everything I have.
Could your marriage be saved? Yes, I believe in the possibility. Will you want to save it when you have done the work? Maybe, maybe not.
What I believe is that you need to make that decision from a place of strength.
That decision doesnt have to be made today.
If you decide you can no longer do this, I will support you completely.
For me, it mattered that I stood. It mattered that I was able to look back at this time and see that I acted with dignity and honor. It mattered to my son.
I am not at all saying you should allow yourself to be treated poorly. That is what boundaries are for.
My xh spewed once. I got on my tiptoes and told him that is was not ok. Ever. That was my boundary. You have to decide yours.
There is no right or wrong way to do this. Only your way.
But I can see who you are, S. I can see you need to try your hardest and that it matters to you that you do.
Get yourself a roadmap. Figure out how you want to act and who you want to see when you look back.
Whenever you are unsure of what to do, pull out the map.
You have done wonderfully. I meant that sincerely.
Stay the course for as long as you can. This should not ever be done at the expense of you. You are too important.
Find you, S.
I just opened my iPad one minute after your post, uR.
I was looking for some direction today. The timing of things can seem like an answer to a prayer.
I have a lot of driving to do throughout the day today for kids. Trying desperately to keep busy in between trips, an be occupied while H is emptying out our house. I'm sad.
Thank you.
I'm feeling sad too. Letting go of a house is hard. Lots of dreams and lots of memories. I'm trying to put them, lovingly, in a memory box...somewhere safe.
When I sold my wedding rings, I said a prayer and asked God to bless them. It helped. I asked that God find someone who would really enjoy the rings and would honor the covenant they represent. I think I'm going to do the same with the house. Prayer that someone finds our house and loves it like we have.
Heather, your post this morning was awesome. Thank you for the good advice, and for sharing your experience. We have a lot in common. I, too need a crowbar....great analogy.
There are times I read things on my thread and I feel uncomfortable, defensive...idk how to explain...but there is a ping in my gut when I read things I don't like. That's where I'm starting to pay most attention.
I'm asking:
Why is (whatever I read) uncomfortable for me right now?
What is it that bothered me about (this question)?
I'm trying to stop myself, and when I get that feeling, name it. Sadness. Anger. Fear.
Then I'm going back to try and get reason why ....but as uR wrote something about this, I don't know if the "why" matters as much as the "how" to push through those feelings, feel them, and let them go.
I can't stay there long. I run from it after a bit when it becomes too much. But I'm starting to stay there longer and understand what's going on. I don't always like what I see when I pay attention to myself.
It's so dam hard. I know what I need to do. But I'm really mad that I have to. I'll be glad I did this later, from what everyone says. But it feels like I'm so far from that now.
uR, I know you see me. I do need to do try hard (I have a story about that later), and I need to stand longer. For me. As hard and as punishing as it is sometimes. I need to.
Fear? Here's one for you:
I'm afraid of doing the work, not only because it's hard. It's also because I'm afraid of outgrowing him. I'm afraid I won't want him. I don't like that thought. I don't like that because I know it will happen. I'm still hanging by a thread. I just can't seem to let go yet. I'm closer, new layers are dying everyday.
I'll be ok.
S, dont get me wrong, understanding why is important because you dont want to keep doing the same things over and over.
What I was doing was getting so hung up on understanding why that I didnt do what I needed to do in pushing feeling them and then letting them go.
Those pings you feel when you read something here, yep, pay close attention to that. You will read the vets writing, if it stings, it matters.
It does succk that we have to go through this. Succks that we have to have our lives turned upside down when we didnt ask for it.
I know you dont see this now. Those that are new to this dont. But there will be a day when you look back and say to yourself, I wish I didnt have to learn all of that in the way that I did, but I am grateful for it.
Through all the destruction this caused in my life, and the ramifications I still feel, I see that. I believe that.
I so understand what you mean when you write that you are afraid of growing past him.
I am always honest and it could very well happen. Thats the truth.
But, I have seen marriages restored that are better than they were before. They were glad they weathered the toughest of storms and came out the other side stronger.
The thing that I want you to really believe, my friend, is that no matter what, you will be ok.
There are no guarantees in life. We all just do the best we can. Hopefully, we find happiness in knowing that we did.
Ugh! .... Thank you for clarifying the why comment, uR After I hit submit, I realized I wasn't clear and it didn't quite translate well!
I'm having a very weepy day. Trying to keep as positive as possible. I need to tell myself I'm getting there, and remember the good, especially today. I'm not believing myself yet.
As I'm driving around, seeing all these places I used to go to with H, it's nearly impossible to keep him out of my thoughts. I wonder if he will ever remember these places, and think of the good times. I wonder if he will want to do whatever it takes to become whole. Or if he'll keep running, keep avoiding, and try to forget everything we were.
Fear? Here's one for you:
I'm afraid of doing the work, not only because it's hard. It's also because I'm afraid of outgrowing him. I'm afraid I won't want him. I don't like that thought. I don't like that because I know it will happen. I'm still hanging by a thread. I just can't seem to let go yet. I'm closer, new layers are dying everyday.
Hey there Shining, that ^^^^ is where I was a year ago. It is a sukky place to be. Last summer, after stbxw BD #3 in April, lots of people held up new mirrors for me. UR, Raine, Mach1, AJ, job, etc, all showed me something about me that I didn't know, or want to admit. Showed me a different possibility of life, a different view of me that I was reluctant to accept, because it meant that yes, I have outgrown her.
That terrified and saddened me sometimes because I knew what that ultimately meant. But at that BD time she was only 4 months from stopping the cheating, and if it takes 6-18 months for the wayward spouse to get over the OP, then I promised myself I would give it another year, for my sake, the kids sakes, and hers. And kml's point up there ^^^ about the kids waiting for the other shoe to drop? I am learning from my kids that that IS how they felt these past 3 years.
So when she decided she wanted a D this past June, you would think I would have been calm, serene...since I have outgrown her, right? Nope. I was still angry, even though I had let go so much, I thought I was all Mr. Detachment, but I kinda deceived myself, lol... So why was I angry, and feeling rejected again? Finally I found the culprit....my ego....I am NOT used to failing at anything I put my heart, soul and effort into. A new layer exposed to be worked through. You will keep exposing your layers as you do the work, and new ones will pop up out of nowhere when you least expect it.
We know we have to do the work, otherwise what a waste of time and pain this MLC/LBS journey would be, IMO. And you will outgrow H. Thing is? If he wants back in, YOU get to decide if you want to be the mentor for him to catch up with you, or not. Because you WILL be light years ahead of him in R skills. You already are...
you already are what you fear... So, knowing that, how's that fear look now?
I am so sorry you are having a tough day. It's ok to, you know. This is all very sad. So, have a good cry. One day, when you can, those feelings will wash over you.
It's also ok to treasure your memories, S. They are part of your life story. They happened. They were real.
They do remember, Shining. They just cant feel that right now.
There is no way of knowing if he will do what he needs to do. I dont know why some do and some dont.
But there is always hope.
You are going to have ups and downs. This doesnt go in a straight line. It all happens as it should. You just have to believe that.
I am NOT used to failing at anything I put my heart, soul and effort into. A new layer exposed to be worked through. You will keep exposing your layers as you do the work, and new ones will pop up out of nowhere when you least expect it.
To add to this thought ^^^^
I think I sometimes believe I deserve something to work out because I want it so bad. I mean...I'm not a bad person, I'm a good person and I love this person, so, in theory, in a just world, I deserve the happy ending that I imagine for myself the girls.
The reality is...who knows what my happy ending is supposed to look like. Maybe, the marriage ending, for ME, IS the happy ending.
I need to truly, completely let go of the end result here and trust things are happening as they should.
The ending to this story is still unwritten. No one knows what's down the road. Miracles happen all the time. But, I need to keep a hand's off approach and allow things to turn out as they are meant to...not how I want them to.
Feel the pain Shining, for today, it gets so much easier. This process is so much like childbirth. The pain is excruciating, but, you reach this point where you begin to see the point of it all. And, somehow, you acknowledge the pain, but the joy is all the more satisfying because of it. Lots of hugs.
We know we have to do the work, otherwise what a waste of time and pain this MLC/LBS journey would be, IMO. And you will outgrow H. Thing is? If he wants back in, YOU get to decide if you want to be the mentor for him to catch up with you, or not. Because you WILL be light years ahead of him in R skills. You already are... you already are what you fear... So, knowing that, how's that fear look now?
T, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IT LOOKS LIKE A GREAT BIG TRUTH JAVELIN.
Thank you. Wow. And cr@p.
I'm having the toughest time letting him go. I know I will, and I know I have to. I'm just soooooooo resisting the acceptance of this being what has become of my life. Cue the kicking and screaming.
Ummmm… I thought it was Divorce Busing, Save Your Marriage site… Sometimes I wonder why some people get one advice and others get complete opposite…
I think this is a really interesting question. But, I'm beginning to get it.
Heather, you've been at this for how long? Do you think it just took time for you to realize that you don’t want to be married to this guy, regardless of somebody pushing you to do this? And even then, you say that “I'm not sure I would ever be able to be married to him again...” So, you are not discounting this possibility 100%. So, what gives? If he would want to come back, would you find some excuses why this time it would be better and he is not damage and worthless after all? Just asking… Just trying to understand why I have so much resistance when I get an advice “just divorce him already and everything will get in place”, and why some people welcome this kind of advice and say that they need to be “pushed”.
Shining , sorry for high jacking your thread. I totally understand your resistance to let him go completely. I have the same feelings.
Yea, that acceptance thingy....is tough chit to get.
Letting him go? The hardest part. But I looked at it as loving him so much and seeing that the only shot he had of making it through this, was me allowing him to.
I wanted so much for him to be whole. I wanted him to find his way. Letting go doesnt mean giving up. Unless you want it to.
It just means that you are hearing him and honoring your marriage and your vows. Sounds crazy, I know. But its true.
Accepting that you this is how it is right now, and knowing in your heart you will not always feel as you do today, is the goal, S.
The way to let go is this. You just start to work on you. You decide who you want to be. Each day you try to be her. Some days you will make it, some you wont, but that should always be the goal.
You allow yourself to feel what you do. Then you allow it to wash over you.
You start to really believe that whatever is supposed to happen, will.
You put your marriage safely away and you decide that you are going to grow.
You understand that this is his journey and your part in it is to get out of the way.
Its a process, S. But you can do it.
Love him enough to let him do this. Love yourself enough to take a leap of faith.
I know where you will land.
Yup Shining...I get how you feel right now, I am a stubborn one, a M1A1 tank, I resisted HARD...ask UR...
My head knew the truth, but my heart had a very difficult time catching up. Plus I turned into (or returned to...part of the work) this annoying optimist...
Once you accept, the javelin will fall out of your heart, and doing the work will begin and aid the healing of your heart.
There is something wonderful beginning, Shining, I have watched many people here survive, grow, blossom and thrive these past 3 years. It is amazing, and there is pain involved... you stand to learn
what you are made of... you let go to (re)discover your true self and potential.
Maybe he will figure himself out, and maybe want back in, maybe he won't. Maybe you will want him back, maybe you won't... We don't know the future, but what YOU do NOW, doing the work on and FOR YOU, will influence that future, maybe even direct it some.
Whether or not you reconcile, YOU are far too important to not do the work. It is worth it.
Maybe lookup the Stockdale Paradox:
In a business book by James C. Collins called Good to Great, Collins writes about a conversation he had with Stockdale regarding his coping strategy during his period in the Vietnamese POW camp.[11]
I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade."
When Collins asked who didn't make it out of Vietnam, Stockdale replied:
Oh, that's easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart."[12]
Stockdale then added:
This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
I know you are going to make it... which ever way your sitch resolves.
I know I'll get there... And by "know" I mean "I hate every fn thing about this and I wish I could wave a wand but since I can't I'll just pout until I realize that doesn't work". Thank you, uR. I am one of those who needs the repetition over and over and I appreciate it so much. Please keep it coming as often as you can. I sincerely mean that. Every post helps. You are awesome.
D13 is working a concession stand for a school fundraiser tonight. She said it would be good for me to work it with her and get out, be distracted... She's a smart girl. How could I turn her down? I'm going. Hoping not to hyperventilate around too many people...lol. When did I get agoraphobia?
I've been NC all day. H just sent a word game invite.... In his moving day. It's become a strange thing... It's not as "intimate" as texting (did I really just say that). But it's like an encryption of "hey, are you there?" when he sends the invite. Mind reading ....I know. The timing is noticeably after a dark or dim period. Idk. Whatevs, right?
This pursuit and distance dance? We are Fred and Ginger.
T, oh, I am pretty sure I'm the Mayor of Stubbornville. I read your threads again today. I had read them when I first came here, early on, but I'm finding as I go back and read again, many things mean more now than I could relate to back then.
The distinction between letting go and still loving him is a faint understanding... I think in starting to really really get it. Not enough to do it... Almost. The house sadness is pushing me that way. Knowing I need to be better for my kids is what will get me there.
We'll see you get to the "other side".
There's good beer, good wine, cookies, cupcakes and...BACON(!) there....
BACON??
Shoot... Why did y'all wait so long to tell me that??
I'll be there ASAP:).
T2 stubborn....that's an understatement...LOL! But stubborness served him well in other ways.
He's a good friend. Honored to have been able to watch him walk his journey.
Shining, he saw that I saw something in you. I can feel it. It's right there.
Oh and I know you dont know this yet, but, I dont give up. You want repeating....I'm your girl. But be careful what you wish for...:)
RIGHT THERE.... yup. "The Force is strong with this one, it is..."
But be careful what you wish for...:)
HA!! No chit...jus' sayin'
Well, I suuurrrrre needed you all tonight. Thank u.
I know what I'm asking, uR, with the relentlessness of your repeated words...if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it. And I know me enough to know I need to be held accountable because I WILL weasel if I'm not. This is too important to do halfa$$ed.
Tonight started out awful. I was so scared. It's silly, I know. But I've been cooped up in my apartment and my car, job searching and running kids... Alone and jobless for too long. Rejected and depressed... Ugh. So I got to the stadium and there were these....things. They moved. And breathed. I think they wee called something like, oh... What's the term.... "Other people." I've had my head too far up my you know what and I was terrified tonight.
But I got through it. It wasn't fun. But there were moments of fun and I might have smiled once....
I did check my phone but not as much as earlier today. Nothing from H. That made me sad. But I didn't text him. I did play a word. But it was hours later. I'm busy. I'm trying . I hate his so much.
I see what I need to do and why. Dang I'm close. Rrrrgggggg.
The comment about the force.... Was that Yoda-speak, T?
Oh Shining- I can see the turmoil you are in and want to send you a big hug!!!
(((Shining)))
Your situation made me think of Raine and how her H would send her game requests at all hours just to "keep in touch'.
I have learned form a recent realization of seeing how far my H has to go, that they do reach out in weird ways.
There is a point where you feel more able to let go, I'm starting to get there, but I still have my days when I just want to feel I matter to him. I get it.
Interestingly digging in through the pain was not something I had a resistance to, if it was just my issues. But once it was the way he responded to me and how that triggered my issues- whole different ball game. Because then I felt flawed, and not good enough, and WTF????!!!
Sending you strength and good thoughts. But you've got this- you have much more insight than you realize- I can see it.
Yes, Shining, it was. UR saw it, I see it. Others see it. Hold this mirror for me will ya?
I'm posting partly to journal, and partly to keep myself from reaching out to H. I made it through this day.
I know, based on the whole crazy sitch, this doesn't make sense. But I really really wanted to ask H how his move went today. WWHHHAAAAAATTTT????? Yeah. I know. Don't worry, I didn't. But, it was hard not to. I wanted to check in. I wanted to know he was ok. I wanted to know if it was real, in a way. I wanted to drive by the house, and see if it was dark. I didn't. I'm trusting this is the right thing to do, even though it felt wrong for me to not check on him.
Then words from this board stopped me.
If I am always there offering help and fixing, he can't do what he needs to do. It becomes about me, and whether I can fix it for him. I'm a distraction. He doesn't want to be married to me right now, and I heard him. He knows I love him. He has to do this. He knows how to reach me. Let him lead. Let him go. Let him walk his journey. Love him enough to let him. This is his journey. I have my own to walk. And, apparently, a mirror to look into.... (Cue a couple more kicks and screams.)
Another thing I realized, is the message that it sends, if I'm always there fixing and checking. It sends the message that I don't think he's capable of doing things himself. He may not be now. But he has to get there in his time, in his way. Not mine. I HURT for him like nothing I've ever felt. I've seen him so low. I love him so much. But, there isn't a dang thing I can do. Ouch.
The word "can't" was jokingly referred to as a "swear word" in my house. Growing up, I wasn't allowed to say "can't". The quote from Henry Ford, "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't.... You're right." I lived by that. And I could do almost everything. If not, I figured it out. I just had to learn how. Had to. I'm only 5'4" and I can change a tire, fix computers, paint, draw, build, problem solve, negotiate, network, I rock at puzzles, I taught myself how to do an aerial cartwheel cuz it looked cool, I taught myself to write with both hands when I was 10...(ok, that was totally nerdy), knit, sew, French braid, cook, dance...EVERYTHING. If I wanted to know, I learned. I achieved everything I have ever set as a goal. Personal, business, family..... The formula worked.
But it doesn't work here. I can't fix this. I can't fix this. I can't fix this. Or, if you're T, "Fix this, I can't."
That thought makes me mad. But this isn't a business thing, or a goal I can just plan and do. This is big stuff, and I'm not God.
And I have SSSOOOOOOOOOO much more to learn.
There was another part of me that saw a different perspective after hearing those words in my head. I want H to not have me check on him, because this is an especially tough thing, and a big change for him. I wanted him to have every opportunity to feel all that. That was not in any way wishing H pain. I do not. I wish him the experience of the lesson. I'm staying out of his way so he can learn it. I just really wanted him to have that lesson hit tonight. Time will tell....
Hey Shining. You did a really good job. That is really tough, but I think you did exactly what you needed to do to get yourself through it.
Your thoughts were very similar to mine when I was learning how to detach like that. You did the right thing by coming here instead. I hope it really helped you get through the night.
I know the feeling of just wanting to 'help' him or 'fix' him. You are right though, he has to do this on his own. It may even help to remind yourself, if he gets through this and he is able to truly come back and work towards r, it will be better bc he will have to 'fix' the damage then. It would have more meaning for both of you. You are worth having someone put the effort into you and a r with you. You do not have to do all the heavy lifting.
I also think having him experience you not checking in on him is a good thing. Hopefully he thought about it, but you can't guarantee he did. It does not mean he wont in the future, but YOU got through it. It gets easier every time you do that. You are on your way to much healthier thinking. You understand that he has to experience this, he has to learn this. So do you, Shining. You are worth him making the effort. He needs time. This won't be the last night of wanting to call him or reach out somehow. You need to take care of you.
All those amazing things you put your mind to and accomplish, that is awesome. That is exactly what you need to do again. Notice that they didn't have anything to do with anyone else but you. Do that again. You are right, you can't do this for him, but you can do this for you.
You did it, Shining. You are worth the effort. You are worth taking care of you. You rock out your aerial, girl! Go ahead with yo' bad self.
Attagirl, S. You got through the urge. You redirected, you self talked and you did it.
I understand you wanting him to feel that. Be careful there, ya know?
So, a little more about the mirrors I mention and my friends write about.
One day I went to my therapist. I said that I realized that I saw myself as if in a mirror. But it was a mirror reflecting back what my mother and xh saw. When I looked in it, I saw who they decided I was.
She said, ok, so what does that mean you have to do? I swear it was like a lightning bolt hit me. I said, I need to get new mirrors. I needed to see what others see. People who were healthy and whole.
So, I listened and watched. I took in how people responded to me. I read what people wrote to me. There were mirrors everywhere. Out there and the people on here.
It took a while to believe what I saw and read, having used the old mirrors for so long.
I allowed myself to be made to feel unworthy and incapable with my old mirrors. With my new mirrors, I saw my worth, my strength.
I realized the most important mirror was the one where I really and truly saw me.
S, I see such strength in you. I see you wanting to get to where you need to be.
Those feelings of wanting to fix dont serve you well. They never really did because the truth is that we cant fix another person. We cant fix their circumstances. We cant fix their insecurities or their lack of self worth. We cant make them happy. Even if we could, we shouldnt.
We take away from them if we try. We take away their drive, their worth, their strength.
They have to fix all that stuff from within. The best way to love them is to let them because when they do it themselves, they can soar.
You are right, he knows you love him. He knows where you are. He knows where to find you.
So, let's keep digging in so you can be your best self. That's the amazing part in all of this.
Find your footing. Get good and strong. Then if and when he looks towards you, you get to decide what you want from a place of strength.
Ok, so, the mirrors....(takes in a suuuuuuper deeeeeeep breath....)
I completely get what you felt with the xh and mother mirrors. I do exactly that. I don't even know who the real me is.
I was told by many in my family, that I lost who I was with H#1. I became so insecure. I hid. It was bad. I lost my voice, my opinion, and I seriously thought near the end, I was losing my mind. At work, I owned and ran a successful business for 14 years. I made huge decisions, had 12 employees, and a rather nice sized following of business. At home? I was viewed as too incompetent to load a dishwasher.
When I met current H, that was one of the biggest positive things I heard. My family said I was still myself around him, and they were relieved. He wasn't like xh at all. But...... The last 2 years, I got lost again.
When we started having problems, it was the same time when H S21 moved in. The conflicts began, and they were bad. This wasn't a typical "left his socks out" or "didn't do the dishes" kind of conflict. It was ss21 rude, inappropriate comments to me and my kids, lack of respect for all of us, including H. There were temper tantrums, and things broken. It was scary. SS was used to a physically and verbally abusive, volatile household before us. He brought that with him. I did get upset with S21 at times, but I was more frustrated with H lack of attention to it. I do not blame s21 for our marital problems. But the timing of everything changing was exactly then. The craziest things started coming out of H mouth. The most irrational explanations for protecting his S from being responsible for himself....all the rules we set for our household were out the window. Before ss21 moved in, my kids had such a tight R with H. Exceptionally great. But after, my kids and I were to blame for everything. At first, I fought back. But that made it worse. I just couldn't figure this out...it didn't make sense. Why can't we talk about this stuff? We talked about stuff before...but H absolutely could not be open to hearing anything when it came to ss21. Crazy. The result? Yep, again, I lost myself in this confusion while trying to avoid conflict, keep a peaceful household, explain the unexplainable to my kids....oh. They were not happy. But to H, this was my fault.
I went to IC. He suggested I explore my boundaries. So I did. I actually came across my notes from that time, TODAY. I wrote what I learned, and how I tried to apply it. Nothing worked. I started to think this must not be it, then... It was confusing. Some of the arguments we had got so crazy. So full of blame. I decided my new efforts were causing this problem, and.....drumroll please......you betcha......I stopped.
Why? Because I thought if only I could change, I could fix it. And that technique didn't work. So I needed to try others.
I read books like crazy. Step-parenting, relationship/marriage books, conflict resolution. communication, forgiveness, getting past your past, how to respond to blame, low self-esteem, setting boundaries with adult children....to name a few. I never chased H around the house with self-help books, though. I sometimes shared what I was learning, but I never insisted it was him. It was me. I needed to change. I took all the bullets. I made myself an easy target. I thought I could fix this if I just fixed me. Then, when it kept getting worse, I thought, well there ya go......proof. I was "unfixable."
I thought it was easier for me to take the blame and do all the changing, improving, and all the fixing. Why on earth would anyone do that? Why would I assume all the work and all the pain for both of us? That's so ridiculous.
This is the pattern we had, and it's a big reason I struggle to let go. Because I feel responsible for it all. I MADE myself responsible for it all. That's not even right. Writing this is painful.....
I'm guessing there are reasons people do this. Is it the co-dependence? Is it the fixer-personality? Is it that I'm trying to hurt myself??? It doesn't make sense, but that's what I did. ....do. I still do. Why do I do this!? And how do I stop? How do I change that kind of thinking? And if I'm such a strong person, why do I hide my strength and choose to be this?
Shining, so much of what you wrote resonated with me. I was there. I did that. I felt that.
I took the blame for all of it. For everything. If I had been better, did better, was stronger, more capable, if I spoke up, if I kept quiet....
After BD, I went to see my therapist, I walked in, sat down, squeezed myself as far into the corner of the couch as I could and said....this is all my fault. All of it.
She said, 'You mean he had no part in it?" I said, No. None. It was me. I wasnt a good enough wife."
After a lot of work, I realized, who did I think I was...having so much power that I could be the blame for all of that?
We just dont have that kind of power, S. We really dont. We have to own what is only ours. Give everyone else their stuff.
I could guess why you do it, but, it's more important for you to figure that out.
For me, it was what I knew. It was a pattern I developed over my life that I bought into. We do what we know.
But the pattern can be broken. You just have to know why you did it and choose something different. It will feel really uncomfortable at first. But when you can really believe that you only have control over you....you are there.
uRworthy, ^^^ all of that hit me like a ton of bricks.
I've been taking ALL the blame. Part of me feels like that's not right but it makes me feel like I have control but you're right... that's an awful lot of power to befall one person, isn't it? Wow.
I need to sit with that for a while. You just smacked me back into reality BIG TIME.
Alright, my head is full of crazy questions. My thought process frequently argues both sides. I have a hard time knowing what I want because of this, lol....
So, the power part.... I cognitively know I don't have that kind of power....
But do I really know? It is a very egotistical way of thinking, isn't it? To think I can fix, change, control.... Egotistical to me means self-centered. Selfish, self serving.... Maybe?
Does insecurity come with a side of self centered -ness? But the low self-worth part... That is the thing that keeps me giving in. Because he is worth more than I am. His needs are more important than mine.
But if I give in, does that have an expectation of controlling the outcome....
Here's an overthought question.... Can a person (ok, me) be egotistical, and believe they have so much power, they can choose to give it away to serve the situation?
And is that being selfish, or generous?
Did that even make sense....
I don't even know where I was going with that. I'm not sure where to look.
Ok, S, I had to read your post several times. LOL!
I am going to tell you what I perceived as my thought processes in my marriage. When I met him, I was just beginning to find me and my voice. I was becoming confident and self assured.
He liked that about me. But there was another part of him who liked to be in control and who wanted to take care of me.
My feelings of confidence were very new and raw. I was really young.
Slowly, over time, he wanted more and more control. Slowly, over time, I wanted less for him to take care of me and more for him to really respect me.
He chipped away at who I was becoming. I let him. After awhile I fell back into what I knew. Always trying to do the right thing. Always trying to be the best wife. In his eyes, I fell short.
So, he kept chipping away and I kept allowing him to. I kept trying to fix it, which made him dig in for more control. Round and round we went until I became really small.
When this all happened I had completely lost me. I decided that it was all my fault because I wasnt good enough. I knew how to feel like that really well. I aced it.
But as I worked through all of this I realized some things. I didnt have power over what he thought or felt. I didnt have the power to change him. Whatever he thought or felt, was his.
So, I looked closely at me. I saw that I was a good wife. I made mistakes, for sure. But, the bottom line was the I loved him as best I could. I honored our marriage. I had his back.
He was wrong. Plain and simple. Could I have done things better? Sure. Could he have? Ayep. The difference is that I owned my stuff. I was no longer willing to own his, nor was I willing to think that I had so much power that I could be completely to blame for any problems in our marriage.
Nope. There are two people in one. I know who I am. I know my shortcomings and my strengths.
Whatever I did or didnt do in my marriage was never with the intent to cause it or my xh harm. I think that makes all the difference.
No one is worth more than me. No one gets to decide my worth but me. No one is more important than I am.
So, is it egotistical to think that you have that kind of power? I dont know. Is it? Or is it more that you have hopes that you have that power because if you do, you can change things. If you can change things, then you are ok.
Does insecurity come with a side of self centeredness? Maybe. Does it matter? I'm thinking not.
If you give in, does that have an expectation of controlling the outcome? Yes. I believe it does. We do what we need to do sometimes in order to be ok.
Can you believe you have so much power you can give it away to serve the situation? Yes, you can believe that. But is it true?
Here's the thing. Once you figure out why you want to fix and control, you can go about changing it.
For me, I knew I did it because I wanted to be accepted and loved. When I realized that I could be accepted and loved without fixing things, well, that made all the difference.
Thank you, uR...sorry for my post being all over....my mind is like Tigger sometimes.
Your posts always hit deep. I'm going to soak this in a while and try to slow myself down.... I'm just feeling different today.
By the way, my mother's LL is acts of service. I'm sure that means nothing, huh.....
Never be sorry for what you are thinking, S. They are your thoughts, so they matter.
I like Tigger. He is my favorite in the Pooh stories.
And yea, interesting about your mom. Come to think of it, so was mine....ruh roh. LOL!
Yeah....interesting! Ruh roh is right!
So, mom wasn't cruel.... But the perfectionist neat freak parts didn't mesh well with my creative messiness.... Ever. Nor did it complement my monk unless and frequent trips to the hospital for stitches... Lol. She was a nervous wreck.
She put me in dance and was always very supportive. But she complained because whenever I was practicing, and she would come down to the basement to do laundry, I would stop. And I mean just stand there...lol. Waiting for her to leave. I remember it REALLY bothering me that she kept wanting me to dance for her and I wouldn't. It bothered her, too. Why? Because she paid for it. She earned the right, in her mind. She'd ask why am I embarrassed? I always said I didn't know. I finally told her when I got a little older that I didn't like he way she looked at me. But here's the kicker...she wasn't looking at me as if she was disappointed. She was usually smiling. Proud. And yet, that bothered me to be watched by her. That doesn't make any sense... Maybe that's not it. But it's something. I didn't like her looking at me. I didn't like her staring. Anyone else was ok. Not her.
I did feel I had to constantly do stuff to impress her. I'd surprise her with a clean house. Or good grades. Or how I dressed. I always had to ask if I did ok. I needed approval waaaaaayyy early... Yuk.