Thanks, job for keeping an eye on my # posts.
Here's a new thread for a new chapter.
I want the focus to be on me and the changes I'm making in myself, my life in the present, and my hopes for the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have started to think of myself as a widow of sorts.
It's a way of detaching further. There is no blame. Just acceptance of what is.
The fact is, my old M is dead, and the image I had of my H as a certain type of man who wouldn't be capable of doing the things he's done is also dead.
That man is gone.
He may not have ever been real to begin with.
It's time I face that sad fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I realized these past few days that thinking of myself as a widow,
rather than as a rejected wife, lover, partner, and friend, is just an easier mental leap to make.
It hurts less than thinking he made a conscious choice that his life would be so much better without me in it.
True enough that it's really not about being rejected as these things by my H, but that he is no longer the same person, and the new person just doesn't see me like that any more.
We are as strangers to each other.
I watched a bit of a TV show (Oprah's Life Class) the other day where a woman who had had a severe head injury and was in a long coma awoke to her husband and family, having no idea who they were. This persisted for a long period of time.
She had permanent amnesia, Yet, her husband stuck it out.
When asked how he handled it when his wife didn't even know him; that she was no longer the person he had known, he said: (paraphrasing)
"When I got married I didn't do it 'as long as things go well'. I was in it for the long haul, no matter what. That was my vow, not meant to be broken when times got tough."
That's how I feel.
I took those vows seriously, and although almost everyone I know says to just leave GUBU and start over, to me, it's like he was in a coma and awoke not knowing me or remembering anything good about our life together.
He is a different person, and it remains to be seen whether or not any of those good qualities that were so evident in the man I married will ever be part of him again or not.
And as for that couple on Oprah? Well, he won her heart all over again, they got married for a second time, (since she didn't remember the first wedding), and they started their new lives together again.
A fairy tale ending, but a nice one.
I supposed it could happen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In the meantime, I'm getting on with things.
I decided that I would really start my "moving mentality" in February 2015, since that will be one full year since being served.
Emotionally, I am slowly detaching--or rather, lessening my emotional attachment to GUBU. Physically moving is another story.
It has been suggested to accept that you are already divorced in your mind and heart to make the transition easier.
After all, that's what our spouses are doing.
So I am imagining myself in a new mountain top home, maybe with a few chickens, a couple of dogs, a garden. A few trusty Ukuleles, a Harmonica, maybe a banjo, and a crabby old tomcat named Horatio...
Maybe I'll be the kooky old lady that all the kids visit after school because she makes real lemonade and doesn't get after them if they cuss.
There is no man in that picture, but I don't think I'll be lonely.
I now know that I will have wonderful people in my life no matter where I am or what I'm doing.
That's well within my power, and I choose good friends and happiness.
I was asleep through much of my marriage. I am now awake.
It feels good. A little scary, but it feels like there are possibilities that I had shut my mind to over the years.
Now those possibilities, for love, for travel, new adventures, new friends, new experiences--that it's all out there again.
What's holding me back is only FEAR.
Fear of walking away from all this when it could have been saved.
Fear of giving up when there was still hope.
Fear of moving forward when it might be wiser to wait just a little longer.
But it's not fear of the future and what that will bring.
The future will hold all the things the past has done.
Good times and bad, love and pain, joy and heartache.
That's life.
And that's a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I will post the links to old/new threads in a bit here.
I just wanted to start this new one before I got in trouble!
xxxooo all my DBer Friends.
---GGG
Hey, Vets---would it be possible to post a "How-To Link Old Threads Tutorial" in the Welcome section?
A real
Step-By-Step for Dummies.
Don't assume we know anything! (Because we don't, really.)
Like Wonka mentioning the "Globe". I didn't know where to look for it, and I didn't interpret that to be anything other than a blue glob.
So--details please! And I'll do it again.
Post my old threads, I mean.
Thanks!
----GGG
GGG,
I really like your thinking...being a widow. It would be easier to accept the changes going on around us.
It also makes me sad that some men are willing to stick it out, like your Oprah story, and then others, like our WAS, just give up. I thought Clark and I valued the same things, like a life long commitment to each other and only to each other. Apparently I was wrong.
Enjoy your mountain top, but remember that you aren't really alone. You've got your friends IRL and you have us
Thanks, Ats.I am taking a break from the boards for awhile, assuming no crisis occurs.I was reading up on all my pals last night and it just got overwhelming... so much pain and stress.
I started analyzing and applying the info to my sitch and just had to stop.
I read some good things, too. Lots of progress being made by many of you. That was really uplifting.
But, like somebody said (in the last 24 hours)
sometimes you just need to spend time not thinking about your M or DBing or any of that for awhile.-----------------------------------------------------------------
On the home front, I spoke at length with an old college friend yesterday. This is the same guy I visited in VA a few months back.
He is looking to move within the next two years, has all the skills I need to run this place, and we talked about a possible roommate situation for him here if I can get a basement apartment set up.
He is also an artisan (ceramics and woodworking) and there would be a possibility of a shared studio arrangement...much more than I could do on my own. More kiln possibilities, more sales. Good all around in many ways.
Of course, there are a lot of variables there, not the least of which is that having a "man" living here could be construed as having a live-in boyfriend.
= No alimony.
So that would have to be dealt with, along with managing our relationship as a roommate/artistic partnership and making it very clear that there are to be no expectations beyond that.
I don't think he would have any, but I don't want to send mixed signals.
I don't see it ever being anything more than a friendship, but from his end, well, he's a man and he's single.
Also, the idea of aging. He's my age...what if he gets sick?
How long would he stay? Would I just end up in the same boat a few years down the road, having to give it all up? Wouldn't it just be easier to set things up so I am completely self-sufficient?
Is that even reasonable doing the type of sculpture I do?
I don't think so. (It's big stuff; outdoor installation pieces.)
I can't do the heavy lifting any more. (I never should have done it in the first place, it's one of the reasons I have the back problems I have now.)
Just a pipe dream at the moment, but it's nice to think I have the option to stay if I decide that's what I want.
If not him, then perhaps someone else.
I just can't afford it or physically do it on my own. So if I want to stay, I'll need somebody here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have pulled back a lot from GUBU since last weekend and I'm getting a bit of the snippy backlash via text, trying to push my buttons or get a reaction.
Whatever. Same old chit.
I'm ignoring and find I just don't care.
In fact, this morning I was actually grateful he wasn't here any longer.
His presence is mostly toxic, so it's nicer to be alone.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I spent a brief amount of time wondering if I'd put GUBU off (and stopped paving the road home) when I told him that email wasn't the best way to get me because I don't check it very often, and that I was turning the volume down on my phone so I was missing texts.
Both are true.
Coincidentally, or as a direct result, he stopped emailing me altogether that day, and now his texts are rare and terse.
After some thought, I decided this says more about him and where he's at than about anything I've done. I thought how I'd react if a friend said that to me, and realized it would not prevent me from continuing to email or text.
It wouldn't even register as a problem. I'd just take them at their word, and understand that it wasn't about me.
So why should it stop him?
Only, perhaps, because it sends a message to him that I'm not sitting here obsessively checking my email or phone for messages from him.
And that's true.
I am thinking about and doing other things, and being his "Plan B" is not one of them.
So--he can take that however he wants.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tonight I'm off to a special dance class--it's been a while---I used to teach several classes a week and took a hiatus that lasted three years.
I haven't been a student in quite some time, so this will be fun.
And my strapping young farm boy will be working here for me (with a machete among other things) one or two days a week as needed as long as needed with some basic chores and ongoing projects.
That's starting next week.
I have decided not to mention it to GUBU and he probably won't ask.
I don't want to stir things up, but I need more help and he didn't step up and volunteer to do anything else for me after I made it clear that I needed assistance.
His 'solution' was for me to just move out.
(For many reasons that's not happening, but he can't do it alone, either. He's not thinking things through long term, as usual.)
Anyhow, scheduling is tricky as I am trying to keep GUBU and Farm Boy from running into each other.This is a nice kid and he doesn't need to get in the middle of anything. He knows a small bit of my sitch, and he doesn't need to know anything more than that.
It could well end up like Bart and Poe, my two roosters, posturing and one-upping each other!
I'll be back on in a few days.
Until then, KEEP on BUSTING!!!---GGGPS: I'd love to meet Maybell for lunch, don't know if that's allowed!
GG,
You can meet up w/anyone you like. The only thing is we can't share address or personal email addresses here. You will need to have someone give you the info about the DB Facebook forum that many of the members go to after being on here.
Thanks, job.
I'll see if anyone posts about the FB forum.
Meanwhile, I'll look for it on my own.
--GGG
GGG, LIKE.
And for the record, if I wanted a divorce from my husband of 23 years for deep, legitimate, unsolvable differences, it would look very different from the ways our Ss are going about it.
I would do everything I could to make the transition less painful for him, would be supportive and caring, helping him in every way I knew how.
Also I would talk to him, go to counseling, help him understand my choice, let him ask anything he needed to know to heal, to move on.
I would bare my soul if it would help him be at peace with it.
(Of course, I also would have given him the opportunity to work on things before dropping the D bomb. I wouldn't have cheated on him and used that as a springboard to have the guts to leave him.)
I wouldn't be angry if he made new friends, saw other people, started branching out and getting a life without me.
I wouldn't be pushing his buttons or getting pissy if he didn't respond the way I wanted, didn't act the way I wanted him to, didn't reach out to me or make himself vulnerable for more rejection.
I wouldn't try and blame HIM for my choice, wouldn't get angry or defensive with him if he got upset with what I was doing to him and to our M.
I'd figure I deserved whatever anger he had coming to me.
I wouldn't tell him to "stop playing the victim" because the truth would be, I was making a choice that hurt him deeply.
He had no choice in the matter.
Our marriage would be the real victim.
And I wouldn't expect him to meet ANY of my needs.
Not physically, mentally, emotionally. Why would I?
I'd fully expect him to be angry--hurt and full of resentment, in emotional pain, and definitely not wanting to be my "gay boyfriend" or booty-call or roommate, or shoulder to cry on about how "hard this is for ME".
I would expect him to distance himself from me and I wouldn't blame him for any reaction he might have to my "news".
I'd understand that I'd made a choice that was painful to him, and that I was going to have to live with the consequences of that choice.
Losing him as a friend or as part of my life would be part of that choice if that's WHAT HE WANTED.
I wouldn't expect him to ever want to be my "friend". I might hope for it, but I wouldn't be angry at him for not wanting to be.
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This is why "standing" is something most people don't understand.
They're thinking that our MLC spouses are divorcing us as I described above.
That they've done everything they could and have made a rational decision that's best for them, one they will never regret because they've thought it through and for really legitimate incompatibilities they've decided it will never work.
That they've used some insight, logic, planning, compassion... that their choice is reasonable instead of being based in fear, avoidance, pain, depression, and feelings that have more to do with themselves and their baggage than the marriage itself.
Or with their husbands/wives.
That's what people in the "real world" just DON'T understand.
That our MLCers are not rational people that have simply grown tired of their miserable, loveless, lifeless marriages with spouses who are best left in the dust, who can never change, who are thorns in their sides and albatrosses around their necks.
That they are not, in fact, moving on to wonderful, healthy, happy lives full of personal growth and the love they've never had with us.
If that's their assumption, it's wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been dumped in the past by logical, rational people who just knew that our R wasn't going to develop significantly.
There was never any nastiness, there was apology, talking, helping with transitions...
It was clean. Thought out.
No doubts it was over, no calling up to make sure I was still dangling on the line.
Just thinking out loud.
Thinking how different it would be if I were the one initiating a divorce.
Of course, I am adult.
I am emotionally mature and not in the grips of a MLC.
I realized I am, in spite of my mental "quirks", pretty darned together and aware.
I'm willing to work on self-improvement with some humility.
------GGG
GoatGal
You have some good plans!
I also plan on taking a break...need to pretend that I'm not married and that my H is only my roommate, expecting nothing from him.
Enjoy your break, it comes a time when all us LBS needs one.
Well you can have room mates share house for your safety or a gay bf!
I'm not sure spousal support should be canceled if there is a legit reason why you cannot be home far from town alone. I'm sure you can find one, even if its your health.
That's what people in the "real world" just DON'T understand.
That our MLCers are not rational people that have simply grown tired of their miserable, loveless, lifeless marriages with spouses who are best left in the dust, who can never change, who are thorns in their sides and albatrosses around their necks.
That they are not, in fact, moving on to wonderful, healthy, happy lives full of personal growth and the love they've never had with us.
Amen, GoatGal. You said it better than I could. I would've quoted the entire post but it would've taken up a lot of room. Just imagine that I quoted the entire post, ok?
Hey GGG(G),
I'm with Nitty, loved that quote! My W has in fact stated several times that she is almost certain she will spend the rest of her life alone, could never find anyone who treated her any where close to how well I have. But at the same time spews at me and blames me for every bad thing she has ever had happen or "felt" in the last 21 years! How does that make ANY sense? They act like children that get angry and tell mommy (or daddy) "I hate you!" just because they feel that way at that moment. You are right about how others just don't get it. Even her "friends" can't understand why she is doing what she is (If they were real friends they would tell HER that but they have to work with her so they just say what she wants to hear).
If only my W could have acted the way you described. Logical reasons, considering the kids lives and how they will be affected by her actions, not being selfish and throwing tantrums and not changing history or making up things that I have done (that I never did) to justify her actions. Now that would be something that, while it would stink to give up on a 21 year M, break up a family, would be so much easier to get through.
I'm starting to believe that a large number of M's end due to MLC, more than most people think. My W likes to tell me about other people who D their H's because of really stupid reasons like that makes what she is doing OK. But it gives me an idea, like when she told me about someone who D because her H didn't "give her enough sex", that that person was probably in a MLC! She was looking for reasons why she wasn't happy and found that one. (You would think that would be a easy problem to fix :))
You sound like you are really doing well GGG. Keep going that way, you deserve it!
GGG I am with you on the fact that no one gets it- so glad we have this board to vent with people who understand!
I have friends who are actually upset with me b/c they think I'm putting up with BS that I shouldn't. They cause me more stress as I feel regardless of what they think they are my friends and should support my decisions. I've learned that most of the time their upset has more to do with projection on me of their own issues.
I've distanced myself and focus on the friends that can be supportive.
Keep posting on your outings- I love hearing about dancing and skinny dipping!
GGG, I agree with your analysis of why people outside this experience don't understand standing.
But I don't know that we can really assume we would break up a marriage the way you describe. I think that in order to get to the point that breaking up a marriage is the right choice, you have to be a little cuckoo. If you were rational, and had been in a long-term marriage as you describe, and really cared about the other person, then the work to repair would have happened. I know I was checked out six years ago. I know for sure if I could have left my H at that time, I would have, and there would have been nothing rational, kind, or reasonable about that choice.
What was rational, kind, and reasonable was my realizing my part in my own unhappiness and the steps I took to repair things before I made them worse.
And if I could have been rational, kind, or reasonable about his unhappiness, of which the affair was basically just a symptom, I would not have an eight month period of begging and pleading to my (dubious) credit.
I say this not as any kind of 2x4, but as a reminder that long-term marriages are, by their nature, emotional beasts, and "I would have done it differently" isn't really fair or knowable. I like to think I would have done it better, but I don't have any evidence at all to back that up and so it would be better not to make that assertion. Because sooner or later, it's probably going to kick me in the a$$. Almost every single "I would never have..." statement does.
Love your new thread title!!!
Maybell,
I agree with much of what you said above.
Even though in hindsight I can see that I was compensating pretty heavily on my own for some growing discontent in my M with H, my thoughts of leaving him were fleeting because, like you, I understand that marriages are living things and experience highs and lows.
We're only human and can only do the best we can with what we have to work with at the time.
That said, I believe there are rational and positive reasons to leave a marriage.
There is adultery, abuse (emotional/physical), your safety is threatened (physical/financial), or your children are at risk
Or there is addiction, dishonesty, emotional distancing, an intimacy desert.
If the affected spouse does not take responsibility for their actions and work towards change.
If there is serious mental illness, arrests/incarceration, or abandonment.
(Whether actual or emotional.)
If the spouse deliberately withholds physical affection and emotional support.
These situations describe toxic relationships and I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving under such circumstances.
It's our choice to stand. I would hope that none of us would WANT to tolerate the above conditions were they to become permanent.
We are worth more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------
That said, I believe in only walking away if you have done everything in your power to save your M.
It takes two to make a R work, but only one to destroy it.
In the end, they must cooperate.
I don't believe on leaving a spouse because they become ill, unable to meet my needs through no fault of their own.
That comes with the promise "for better or for worse".
But if our spouses continue to choose behaviors which are harmful to us, show no signs of changing, well in my case there is an expiration date on that.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I described the way I would go about a divorce because, if nothing changes with GUBU, I will initiate proceedings to finalize things if he does not.
And it would look very much as I said: Rational, final, well-thought out.
I wouldn't have any anger at him.
I would just know that he no longer wants to be/is able to be a partner I could trust, depend on, feel safe with, feel connected to.
I don't want to live like that down the road if GUBU is the best he has to offer.
My husband had issues--we all do---but his good points outweighed his bad ones.
GUBU has very little to recommend him, as a handy man, much less a husband.
I am giving him all the time I can to figure himself out.
But the truth is, he might never.
In that case, I must move on for my own well-being.
-------GGG
GGG(G), yes, but...
* You've been here.
* You've already been dealing with this for a long time and have had time to get to that place.
* You're not MLC, which as you know is not a rational mind. So you are capable of rational thought and unselfishness.
* You weren't the one who opened the divorce conversation.
* You aren't acting out against any particular guilt for having hurt your H impacting the way you respond to him (meaning the affair, etc.; not the stuff you have changed since BD)
If your original point was how you WILL go about dissolving the marriage when you get to that point, then I apologize for misreading. If your point was how your H should have behaved when he decided he wanted out, then I think mine stands. Honestly, EVERY time I say "I would" or "I would never" it comes back to haunt me. So I try to avoid saying it now. Because life is long and chaotic.
As far as making the decision that you are done standing and have decided to move on, I don't think there's a soul on earth who would reasonably fault you for that decision, nor for being snotty about it when you go to implement.
I hope we're on the same page -- I'd hate for you to misunderstand that I'm essentially agreeing but with caveats.
Maybell,I think we are on the same page.
I was only trying to contrast the way a rational adult who is not in the throes of a crisis might go about dissolving a marriage for (what I consider to be) "legitimate" issues,
vs. the type of behavior we see in our spouses who are no longer interested in being married.
"I was unhappy and while I was searching (on the Internet!) for the reason, I came up with YOU!"--- to me is not a "legitimate" issue.
To be clear, I am not done standing.
I am just doing a lot of soul-searching.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The way GUBU has gone about this speaks volumes to his state of mind and inability to look within for the source of his troubles.
MLC or not, life-long issues which have never been dealt with--call it what you like--he is not behaving like a man who has thought things through with any clarity.
It is my opinion that he will live to regret the decisions he's made, and will one day truly regret that he let me go with not a wimper of protest.
No. I don't think he could have done better.
I think he is messed up beyond belief.
How long I am willing to live with that is the question.
I have never abandoned friends and family in their hour of need, and will not abandon him either. I believe he is ill, in one sense or another.
But at some point, I need to think of myself. I can't live with someone who treats me like something they tried to scrape off their shoe but still stinks.
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I have done nothing to him, other than yell at him for cheating on me and betraying my trust, and throwing him out when he served me with D papers, yet somehow, he feels like he is the "victim", or so he says.
At this point, I don't think he's capable of much in the way of looking down the road at the consequences of his behavior, or looking inside himself for answers to deal with how he feels.
He doesn't feel good around me anymore, (doesn't matter WHY), therefore the solution is to just get rid of me.
"No bad feelings allowed" should be his motto.
------------------------------------------------------------------
He appears to have no real compassion for me, or hides it well.
It's all about HIM, what HE wants, what HE needs.
He's unapologetically stated this several times.
To be honest, most of his communication with me has "I want" at its core.
And when I've balked at obeying his command, he lashes out in one way or another.
It's getting really old.
He's been treating me like crap for more than two years.
While he's said---proudly--
"I lie like a rug" and
"I am a master manipulator".When I recall these things, and other seemingly small things from over the years, I wonder if there is any hope for him to improve.
And I also remember really great times with a man who was so different, so generous, sociable, who liked people, who loved and respected me.
I do believe that man was REAL. I married him.
But he's not here anymore. Not that I can see.
That man seems gone for good. And I am not interested in being married to his replacement, is all.
I believe that this is not about me, or OW, (real or imagined).
I think this is about him, his pain, his problems; all of which have finally caught up to him and he has no where else to run.
I'm just collateral damage. I don't believe his goal is to hurt me, but he will continue to hurt me until I put a stop to it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, I'm waiting it out, much to the chagrin of friends, family, and potential suitors.
That's my choice, to wait and watch and see.
At least I want to know I gave it as much time as I could before throwing in the towel.
But in the meantime, I need some emotional distance from him to feel safe and get my head straight.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also contacted a DBing coach, just trying to figure out how to pay for it.
Then I can say that I tried that too...
---GGG
GGG,
It seems to me that for various reasons we're on a Soul-Searching path this week here in DB land. Makes me wonder "what gives!" Super Moon? Whatever the reason behind our quiet contemplative moods, we are inching toward and arriving at our own truths with each revelation slowly peeling away one by one.
Interesting process, isn't it?
But I don't know that we can really assume we would break up a marriage the way you describe. I think that in order to get to the point that breaking up a marriage is the right choice, you have to be a little cuckoo. If you were rational, and had been in a long-term marriage as you describe, and really cared about the other person, then the work to repair would have happened. I know I was checked out six years ago. I know for sure if I could have left my H at that time, I would have, and there would have been nothing rational, kind, or reasonable about that choice.
Maybell, you described exactly what I am thinking too. I just had a hard time expressing it.
And this:
I say this not as any kind of 2x4, but as a reminder that long-term marriages are, by their nature, emotional beasts, and "I would have done it differently" isn't really fair or knowable. I like to think I would have done it better, but I don't have any evidence at all to back that up and so it would be better not to make that assertion. Because sooner or later, it's probably going to kick me in the a$$. Almost every single "I would never have..." statement does.
I was almost a WAS six years ago too. Only now I realize that it was about me not being happy, and that my actions at that time DID hurt H. This might be the reason he is doing the same thing to me now. IDN. I also refrain from saying “I would never have” statement.
From H’s point of view, he HAD the reasons to end the marriage. It was too much for him to handle the things he didn’t like in our marriage. Was there a way to repair what was not working? Absolutely “YES”. It was not only my fault, he contributed to whatever behavior of mine was not likeable to him. He just didn’t want to do the work. He wanted a different partner where he would not have to try and everything would be happening naturally. He decided that our M didn’t work anymore and it would be beneficial for both of us to end it. Yes, he decided for me too and convinced himself that I would be better off without him.
Then, comes the rest… Wanting to be the best friends, not wanting to be the best friends, not wanting to file for D, then wanting to file for D, then not filing for D…
Wonka, it must be the full moon
.
It was huge in the sky and I feel happy driving home towards it.
I love moon stars thunder lightening. Etc.
Yes, it's just mlc weird. H can make most stuff sound reasonable even when you know it's damn well not.
Master manipulators is the word, most definitely.
Yes... the moon makes everyone crazy.My dogs have been restless, I've been restless and antsy.
I used to work in a mental health clinic, and the crisis calls were up by 25% or more when there was a full moon.
That's just anecdotal, but every time there was a swarm of really crazy behavior from our clients, somebody would say--hey, the moon is full!
We should have marked that on the office calendar and made sure nobody took vacation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyhow, yes, as everybody said, lots of soul-searching going on.And more unwanted advice from friends, which led to my discussion about "Rational vs. Irrational Divorce".
Maybe it should be another throwaway addition to the Huffington Post.
(Because, from what I've read, the people who write these various articles have credentials which are often suspect.)
You can find an article supporting virtually any point of view.
But if you Google "Good reasons to Divorce" "Stupid Reasons to Divorce", "Divorce Regrets"---and believe me, I have--- you'll find all kinds of crazy things.
As my H said, he read on there that his cheating on me was my fault, and that I needed to take responsibility for my inability to make him happy.
Number One in BOTH Stupid AND Good Reasons to Divorce is: "He/She doesn't make you happy"
I rest my case on HuffPost....
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But some friends seem to think that H has made some reasonable decision and that I should just get on with it. After all, that's how they
"Would Have" done it.
(Winking at you, (((Maybell))!)They don't know about MLC, or depression, or about how people can be very irrational while in certain emotional states.
Case in point: The way I acted after I found OW was SO out of character for me, it totally freaked H out. The level of anger, grief, hysteria... I believe my reaction showed him a side of me he didn't believe existed.
It wasn't pretty.
And it certainly wasn't rational.
If I had divorced him at that time, it would have been a reaction to the pain I was in, an escape for me, a punishment for him.
But even then I knew never to make any major decisions when in a highly charged emotional state. I believe that whole "take a year after a major trauma to make major changes in your life" guideline.
H made the decision to D when he was clearly at the end of his rope emotionally, feeling trapped by the outcome of his actions, and guilty as heck over the pain and devastation he'd caused all around...
Well, in that state, D looks awfully attractive as a "solution".
Contrast that with the current situation.
I'm not sure he sees it as such a great alternative any more, but suspect he doesn't know how to back out without a lot of emotional discomfort and he has always said he doesn't want to "LOOK weak."
I believe now as I did then, that it was only done to STOP the emotional fallout that he just couldn't handle.
It was a gag order on me. And it worked.
Now I'm walking on eggshells and DBing, being friendly and nice and not saying a peep about all the awful things he's done, that I most certainly did NOT drive him to.
How nice for him!
(OK, that's snarky, but some days it's just how I feel.)
-----GGG
Hey GGG(G),
I also believe that my W did the same type of thing. She hasn't been "happy" since she became depressed 7 + years ago. She has tried (according to her own words) "many" things to feel better...she was a stay at home mother, adopted several dogs, threw herself into her work and new friends, lost weight, etc. Nothing worked, she was never able to "find her joy" and D'ing me was the "biggest change (she) could think of"! Of course, after she decided that and I pointed out that D not only has a profound effect on her and me but her kids, her family, everyone who cares about her, she HAD to come up with "reasons" that I was the "cause", that way she could justify hurting so many others!
I think when you get right down to it, MLC is always about them trying to "escape" who they are and since we are so big a part of who they are now, we have to be pushed aside. We are part of the "problem" and they have to find ways to blame us so that they can go and be someone "new". We know them and who they "really" are so they can't fool us with their fake personas. We will always be able to see right through them and they HATE that. It's like when teenagers can't fool their parents. We know who they are in all their "uncoolness". We know who they are which is why they hate when parents are around them when with their friends. They can't act like they are "cool" when we're around because we know who they really are. This is why, even when teenagers friends think they have "cool" parents, they will roll their eyes and disagree! We are now mom/dad in MLC's mind!
I see this with GUBU and his "online" personas! Totally different than the GUBU you know but it's who he "wants" to be! As long as GGG(G) is around, he can't fool you! These are some of the real reasons they are ending their M's. Not rational so they come up with all these untrue, irrational "reasons" that only make sense to them. The reasons you spelled out and the way you would end things are what rational people would do! People who have real reasons to end a R, not just thoughts from their fevered, MLC baked minds! The last thing they want to do is admit that they were wrong about us or the M! That would "look weak"! One of the reasons, I think, that MLC is so much harder to deal with than simple WAS. A non MLC WAS isn't looking to change who they are, can actually think rationally.
Stay on the high road GGG(G). You will feel so much better about you whatever the final outcome!
Thanks guys!
Today I tried extending myself a bit, sent H an invite for an SPCA fundraiser, something we always did together.
I was there at the shelter and everyone was asking about him, it was beyond weird, trying to pretend everything was normal.
Anyhow, I got two tickets, figured I'd get someone to go with, or go alone.
Then I realized that H might be hurt if I didn't invite him, so I decided to make myself vulnerable and ask if he wanted to go since I had two tickets.
I figured, this would give him an opportunity to "talk" if that's what he wanted,
that we would be engaged in something we always enjoyed with people who like both of us, and the focus is on the dogs, not on us as people.
If he has been feeling put off my my GALing and darkness, this would be opening the door a crack, and giving him a bit of an opening if that's what he's looking for.
If not, well then, that's fine too.
NO PRESSURE.
NO EXPECTATIONS.It'll be fine, either way.
I was initially thinking there could be three possible answers:1. No
2. Yes
3. I don't know, need time to think about it.
Then I considered MLC and GUBU and came up with the following additional responses:4. What do you mean "fundraiser"? That sounds ominous!
5. I never got the message/didn't hear you/no response.
6. Syyy^5siosnvvvv *** #2022 *&^^&*B (Unintelligible, indecipherable goobledygook)
7. I'll let you know by---and then just never get an answer
8. Why are you asking me?
9. Yes! Then doesn't show up.
10. Yes, as long as you realize that I am there as a single guy, in order to meet other women, so don't tell anyone you're my wife!
Ahhh.. Life isn't boring, at least.We'll see what the response will be. I'll either go alone, or find some nice person who'd really appreciate a sunny afternoon at a winery with dogs. Couldn't be too hard, right?
---GGGGot my GAL plans all set for this weekend, and working out my blues band set for the end of the month. Hitting all those barriers and then some!
BWAHAHAHAAAAAHAAAA...oh, thank you for that....
6. Syyy^5siosnvvvv *** #2022 *&^^&*B (Unintelligible, indecipherable goobledygook)
They all speak fluent gobbledygook, don't they?
Yup, ((Shining))
Especially when you're shining those rays in their eyes.
Makes 'em so they can't see straight!!!
Too bad nobody offers a degree in MCL Wackadoo Speak. We could make a fortune interpreting for people!
---GGG
OK, so, no answer yet on going to the fundraiser, but I swear he is looking positive GLEEFUL.
He's here loading hay, all smiley and nice. Upbeat and looking very relaxed. I'm friendly, but scarce. Just let him see me enough times to see me smile, said a few nice things to him, then back inside.
Go figure.
I haven't seen him smile this much in ages.
Of course, that probably means he's happy I asked him, and now he knows he can run off and play with his online gals, knowing I'm waiting at home for him to give me an answer!
Hahahaha!
I find it doesn't bother me even the teensiest bit.
It was nice to see him smile, though.
---GGG
Current fave gobbledygook response when I refused to engage in a recent disagreement: W, walking away in a huff "You act like this is all just a CHOICE!"
Damn right, it is.
^^^^ Shakspr,
If not their choice, whose?
It's a bizarre way of thinking. And GUBU's response to my invite to attend the SPCA fundraiser is more of that same way of thinking. (See below)
No matter how they FEEL, they can make other "choices". Feelings are not destiny.
I'm starting to think they have a lot more conscious choice in the matter than we want to believe.
At some point, they are giving themselves permission. All things being equal.
I get that they "feel" driven to do these things, but isn't the sign of mature behavior being able to put your feelings aside and do the right thing?
Yeah, I know. They're just teenagers with the peach fuzz long gone...
---GGG
So here is GUBU's response to the fundraiser invitation:(This is a place where we worked with them for years on our hospice dogs, everybody there loves us, thinks we're so great for taking these old decrepit dogs, and they have no idea I'm mostly doing it all on my own now.)
"I will not be going to the ASPCA...you may not believe it but it hurts me too, very much."
"The title of my upcoming book is "What about that one".
"I'm not kidding...just an exercise but a valuable one."
"Writing is good for processing."
OK. I get that it's weird for him, too.
But HE is the one that created this dynamic.
He is the one who will see most of our animals get euthanized or rehomed.
He is the one who has made relationships with our friends and people in the community uncomfortable.
That was HIS CHOICE.
Now he wants to avoid the crummy feelings that come along with it?
I guess so!
"It 'hurts' him, too? What, exactly? The fact that he's messed everything up?
Whatever.
This is a HAPPY event with HAPPY animals. It's not about being "sad" about our "reality" (as he continues to refer to it, as though it occurred on its own.)
As for the rest...
"My upcoming book"???
Is he writing a book?
Reading a book?
Vague gobbledygook as usual.
I'll have to Google it to know WTF he's even talking about.
------------------------------------------------------------------
He has become a terrible communicator. Forget texting, even speaking in person.He leaves out chunks of info, assuming that I know all the missing pieces by osmosis or something. Then gets mad if I ask him to clarify because I can't possibly understand what he's talking about without some background.
He'll start a conversation out of the blue with
"Well he said that it would take about two weeks." kind of thing.
WHO?
WHAT would take two weeks?
What are we TALKING ABOUT?
(Annoyed)
"Well, I TOLD you that Joe Schmo was thinking about relocating his business to Florida..." Yeah---A month ago!
Just out of context things.
Supposedly OW didn't have this "problem" of not being able to read his mind...
Sure she didn't. His mind was pretty much on ONE thing. Not hard to guess there!
Anyhow....
And "writing is good for processing"????
The funny part about that is that he was always making fun of me for writing so much and making copious notes when I was struggling with learning something.
I see now, he was borderline snippy about how I process due to my ADD/Asperger's.
(One of my "flaws", according to him.)Hey, at least I was trying to LEARN new skills and ACCOMPLISH certain goals!
I'm smart but some things I just have to work out in my own way.
But-- I get things done. I just had to do them "my" way to get the info into my head.
And I have accomplished a lot--because I kept trying.
Even though he made fun of my drawings and charts!
Now
"writing is good for processing"???.
Like this is news to me? Sheesh.
So I will have to think about how to respond. (And I am not trying to mind read, just thinking aloud about what he's said and how to craft a good response.)
I am neutral about his declining. I figured he'd probably say no.
(But funny, that particular "reason" didn't occur to me. Just goes to show you...)
I just have to to resist the urge to say: "Well, THAT's a relief. Because the guy I REALLY want to go with is free after all!!!"And, "If it hurts you so 'very much', then why are you continuing down this path of destruction?"
" It may not be obvious to you, but you don't HAVE to, you know. There are other options, GUBU!"
Like he wants ME to feel sorry for HIM for his sadness about throwing a grenade into our lives and making us pay the price for his selfishness.
Well, I don't.
Yeah, yeah. I know.
I'll just validate, whatever. I didn't get any indication from that that he'd be willing to do anything else with me, so I won't be asking again. It's not like he said that this particular thing would be uncomfortable, but something else might be good.
It also sounds to me like he is still set on divorce, and being around all that "past good stuff" will just be a waste because those days are over and we will never be those people again. It's "sad" because we're getting divorced and there are a lot of dogs who will be euthanized because we're not going to be able to do hospice anymore.
Okay. This ^^^ is mind reading!---GGG
It's been 24 hours, so here's my reply:H:
"I will not be going to the ASPCA...you may not believe it but it hurts me too, very much."Me:
I’m sorry you feel that way, although I can understand.
I am looking forward to going; just figured I’d ask.
H:
"The title of my upcoming book is "What about that one”.
I'm not kidding...just an exercise but a valuable one."Me:
You’re writing a book?
Interesting… I’d love to hear more about that some time.H:
"Writing is good for processing."Me:
Preaching to the choir, here, Sir! (+ Smiley face emoticon with sunglasses...)Me:
See you later!--GGG--------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I was trying not to make a big deal of it.
A BIG 180 for me. Just let it go and don't overanalyze. (That he can SEE!)
It really wasn't a big deal when I invited him, but overnight it got blown up in my head. You all know how THAT goes!
So what I did right:1. Validated his feelings (a little) without coddling him
2. Didn't blame him for how things are
3. Let him know I will have fun without him--because it is supposed to be FUN, not depressing!--- without rubbing his nose in it.
4. Left an opening if he wants to talk about his writing.
His writing, if that's what it is---and since I Googled the title and didn't find a book out there by that name---is funny because he
hates writing, can't spell, most texts are just a few words.
So writing for him, is a big stretch!
It shows he is expanding himself in some ways. That's a VERY GOOD THING.
Maybe this new shrink is a good one?
Of course, I had to stop myself from saying:"Why don't you write a book about how it feels to screw your life up royally while stabbing your wife in the heart? That might be more of a worthwhile therapeutic exercise!"
Snarky, snarky me.
That's why I said it here. I did think it! Thank goodness there are no "Thought Police".
Just light and "easy, breezy, beautiful-- Cover-Girl" Gumby Goat Gal Goddess...
Best I could do on short notice.
--GGG
Oh, and one last thing:
One thing I have noticed consistently is that whenever he communicates with me, it's ALL ABOUT HIM.
There was no "thanks for asking", "I know this is hard for you", "Sorry but I can't go".
Nope. It's all about how HE feels, how sad HE is, and the writing HE is doing.
I know now not to be surprised. But it's clear he's still stuck in his own head.
I don't really think I exist much for him except as a source of discomfort.
---GGG
Doh!!!!
Of COURSE he doesn't want to go anywhere with me where people like me, like us as a couple, which reminds him of the best parts of our life together, and which throws up, in great and painful detail, the costs of his choices.
Geez. Sometimes I am SUCH a dope!
It's that "forest for the trees thing again."
Slapping forehead with frying pan....
I should have stuck with Wonka's bike ride suggestion. It would have been far less emotional an event.
Sometimes I am struck by my blindness to the obvious.
Oh well. Next time I'll know better.
---GGG
I wasn't gonna guess....but that was my guess. Possibly the pain (and I think he feels it whether he goes or not) from his guilt for what he did, and he can't face neither the people he knew, nor the fact that you actually were a cute, loving couple after all. Then he would be wrong, and we can't have that.....can we?
Be careful running through the trees with those frying pans, GGG....
Hahaha! Shining, I think you may be right. ^^^
Now for some more over-analyzing, because it's what I do BEST Interesting how he managed to decline without actually acknowledging that I had, in fact, invited him to do something?
"I will not be going...." As though the invite fell from the sky.
No doubt another skill he's learned in the corporate world.
Also how whenever he writes the negative, especially when making a point, he rarely says: I won't/can't"
He almost always says: "I will not/cannot." Weird, huh?
But on the plus side:* He opened up a little about feeling sad about how things have turned out.
Or is pretending to open up.
Or the moon is full.
* He said "You may not believe this"... and allowed me to validate a little.
Of course I believe it! He surely feels worse than I do. After all, he's the one that made this mess, so he's got all the guilt.
* He may be doing some soul-searching with the book/writing, whatever that's about.
* He shared with me that he is doing this ^^^--a big 180 for him. Writing is NOT his comfort zone. If in fact, that's what he's doing.
* He talked about "valuable experience", "processing"--this tells me that he *might* be doing some real thinking.
* He now knows that I do NOT hate him nor think he has cooties.
* He knows that I am willing to do things as a couple as we used to do, and that I would find that to be appealing on some level.
* He can see that I will be happy with or without him when doing these things, but now, sometimes, I might prefer WITH him.
Probably why he was so smiley yesterday.
Or not.
Or the moon is full.
Ahhhh... Amazing, isn't it? What "insights" we can try and pull from just a few simple words? But you know what they say: "BELIEVE NONE OF WHAT HE SAYS". And I don't. Not really.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, historically he has not analyzed things like I do, but subliminally I'm sure he got the message.I sent a follow-up email asking if he minded bathing the one dog I'll be taking to the event. "Everyone will want to see him looking and smelling his best!" Happy Crappy Pappy!
He answered, simply. "Yes".
(Probably didn't expect me to be all upbeat about going. That's right, GUBU, Horton and I are going to have some Woofs and Wine!!!)
He'll get to see us piling into the MuttMobile, Horton with his Bow Tie and me in a cute summer dress.
Oh well!
I'll be sure to tell him everyone says "Hi!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyhow. No worries about me over-analyzing this for glimmers of hope, more to see if I can glean any info and perform better in the future.
It's that "Growth Mindset".
By the way, is anyone still reading that book? Mindset, by Carol Dweck PhD.
I am really enjoying it.
I have a Growth Mindset, while GUBU has a very Fixed Mindset.
Which he COULD change. Wouldn't that be nice?
---GGG
Hey GGG(G)!
I tried to get my W to go to the Mutts/wine event we have here for years but she never would go. My D14 and I volunteered at Paws of Austin together and had so much fun! Mom just stayed at home and played video games. Hope you have a great time! Careful you don't come back with any new little guys or gals. Sometimes it's hard to look into those eyes behind the cage......
As for GUBU saying "..believe it or not, this hurts me too...". Oh, yeah, then STOP doing it! Would you leave your hand on a hot stove top while it hurt more and more or would you take your DAM HAND OFF!! Geez, these MLCers drive me crazy with their crazy! If they feel guilt...you made them feel it. If what they are doing hurts...but I have no choice! It all boils down in their minds the same as a child saying "But he/she MADE me do it!".
How in the world do these people survive with the emotional maturity of 10 year olds? I'll tell you what from what you have said about what GUBU has written in his online dating descriptions he sounds like he may have a pretty good imagination for writing "fiction"!
So, have you heard anything about if he is cleaning out the basement and fixing the bathroom because he needs a place to stay? Or would that just be too painful?
Have fun at the Mutt/Wine event! Can't wait to hear all about it!
Thanks, Matt.
Yeah, he's sure got his priorities straight.
It's basically about avoiding feeling anything "bad" and trying to feel everything "good'.
That about sums it up.
If I make him feel "good" then I'm worthwhile.
This means stroking his ego, not having too much fun without him, keeping the home fires burning so he can discover who he is, not asking questions, not expecting anything, but not letting anybody else fill those roles while he doesn't want to.
It's letting him know I love him and I'll be here no matter what, not getting involved with anyone else, not showing him up by being competent at anything, not being smarter, nicer....no... this would make him feel BAD about himself.
It's not doing anything to remind him that he's not perfect, not bringing up the past, letting him think the fact that he has not yet stopped feeding us makes him a great guy!
In short--worshipping him, but from a respectful distance.
So as you can see, REALITY has very little place there.
Which is why I can't really compete with online fantasy women.
(Except maybe in an "in-person" smack down!
I need me a wrestling name!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Horton the Hairless Wonder and I will have a wonderful time at the winery event without GUBU. His loss.
If he chooses to, he can make it all about being sad and feeling guilty.
Honestly that never occurred to me, which is why I invited him in the first place.
Silly me--I thought it might be FUN!
(FUN? What's THAT? GUBU asks...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyhow. The basement.
I noticed that he has removed ALL his clothes, most of which he's kept here for the duration. I decided not to make anything of this. Just like him bringing all his laundry here.
He has lost weight, bought new "cool" hipster clothes, so it's possible he's just getting rid of things.
Some of the farm clothes have re-appeared, just in piles in different spots.
(He has also become a slob.)
I have deliberately NOT gotten rid of the things he wanted me to, because they are part of the furniture I might be taking with me.
The real issue with clutter down there is HIS stuff. Tools, construction crap... that's on him.
He did say he wanted to buy his friend (who has been housing him for free) a new laptop. Saying he's tried to give her rent all this time, but she wouldn't accept it.
(One wonders what that's about...not romantic, but co-dependent boss/employee enmeshment for sure.)
Why he informed me about it is anybody's guess. If I HAD to guess, it's that I'd see a charge for yet another laptop and considering his porn problem/laptop/phone stuff, I'd blow a gasket.
Not so--but that's probably why. Anyhow, he said it would come out to about $100 a month rent for her.
I answered: "Sure, I think that's more than fair. She's done so much. Get her a really nice one!
"
So--is he planning on staying with her until he can divorce me? Perhaps so.
He has suggested many times that I should just leave.
Go live with my mother.
Just remove myself from his life, his home, his reality.
Then it will be "OVER" and he can pretend it never happened.
That's his ultimate solution.
And one reason why I'm thinking of taking a REALLY LONG TRIP to give him a real taste of what that would be like long term.
We did about a month and he worked half days the whole time.
He can't sustain that, but maybe he's forgotten.
So that's in the works as well.
If he balks at me going, well, that wouldn't make sense, would it?
That's what he's looking at in terms of living. There would be ZERO time for dating, that's for sure!
Unless he wanted to invite a few gal pals over to scoop poop, weed whack, wash incontinent dogs' pee-pads.
Where do I sign women up for that?
Because I could sure use a break!
---GGG
GGG, he reminds me of my late FIL (H’d dad) when he turned about 65. He would start talking about something that was apparently going on in his head, but nobody knew the details. He would then explain, but it was kind of strange. And it seems like it was also all about him all the time. Looking back, I started to think that H’s father was just so selfish. But, maybe something was going on with him. He was diagnosed with ALS a few years later. I think this is when H’s MLC started.
I love dogs, and I admire your work trying to save the once that are abandoned and sick. Too bad your H doesn’t feel like he can continue to do the work at this time.
Hey, GG - here's a NON-DB'G QUESTION (everyone cheers):
Any tips on housebreaking a young chihuahua mix (6 months)? I am at wits end. Apparently my shower mats and daughter's room are poop/pee pads (as opposed to the actual pads I set out.) She gets plenty of outside time, but doesn't let go out there as often as she should.
And, BTW, your mind reading efforts are at least ENTERTAINING and self-aware.
Shakspr,
I know you asked GGG directly...however, I have trained my dogs from puppy hood and I've learned some valuable tips that I'd be happy to pass on to you (and others) here.
-Treats are best when teaching puppy to pee/poop outside. For the first year of the dog's life, I would use only specific small treats for that purpose so he/she would associate it with going out to the bathroom. High praise, positive words and doling out this specific treat taught them that it is perfectly okay to pee/poop outside. I stopped the treats when they've fully understood the need to inform you that they need to go to the bathroom and stop peeing/pooping in the house/apt.
-When they peed on the carpet, I would use a spray to remove and soak up all traces of smell for they would repeat in that same spot.
-I would go out for a while and crate my puppy for half hour...then increase to 1 hour. For longer outings, I would get puppy babysitters. This is excellent to teach them to get used to the owner being away. Also their bladder is tiny and cannot hold for a day. When they reach their 9 to 10 month mark, they'll be able hold their bladders all day when away at work and all night when you're asleep.
-Crating used for up to 1 year. When they are in their puppyhood, I would leave them in the kitchen with gates in open areas. When they got a bit older, I would close bedroom doors and any other rooms because it is tooo big and overwhelming for them. When they reach adulthood, around 1 year old, then they can roam free and be completely crate free.
-When you catch your puppy going into areas that you don't want them to, you can distract them with a jar filled with pennies that will re-direct their attention. You don't want to discipline by saying "no, Fido!" each time they did this. They will associate no with their names. Not good.
-When my dogs were in their puppyhood, their teeth hurt from teething which makes them chew all sorts of stuff. To counter their problem, I would ask if they wanted some ice and they'd bark. I'd give them an ice cube or two. For longer sessions, I'd use a washcloth and wet it. Twist it in a long tube and leave it in the freezer. I use them to give my dogs to chew on to alleviate their teething pains.
-As a result of giving them ice and frozen washcloths, they've never chewed on my shoes or any furniture when they outgrew their teething phase.
-The three most important words I taught when they were 8 weeks old were: drop, sit, stay. Very vital that they know those three main commands from an early age.
Oops! A long answer to a short question. As you can tell by now, I am a dog lover.
G'luck!
GGG,
Back to the program.
A lot of the MLCers lose interest in outside activities...especially involving the LBS. I did during my MLC. It will take a while for them to regain their interests and hobbies.
Again, try not to take it personally. Perhaps you can try and ask GUBU if he would be interested in going biking with you. This needs to be done with zero expectations. Then you go off by yourself on your bike.
Waiting to hear all the details of the Mutt & Wine event! Sounds a lot of fun.
That is good stuff. Will be printed and taped to the fridge.
GGG,
Are you ok? Hope the Mutt & Wine event went really well!
I'm going to try this again, people.
Previous Thread: The Amoeba Whisperer: Stay in Your Own Petrie Dish!http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2485520&page=1 THIS ^^^ WORKED. Whew.
Now for the rest.
---GGG
I'm gonna go crazy here and see if this works.
This is ALL PREVIOUS TOPICS CREATED:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=35406 By Jove, I think she's got it.
Just goes to show you, if I don't have to follow directions, I'm better off!
---GGG
Yeah...yeah...you're working your way up the thread stitching mountain, GGG!!
GAL UPDATES, Y'ALL!Friday I was at the "Girl's Night In" slumber party, and I had a blast. H was here when I went out, and we were very chatty and he actually asked me "Whose house are you at again?" (He'd stopped asking. I wonder if he wanted to make sure it was a GIRL. Well, it was Girl's Night, right?)
He was also really upbeat and asked me about myself!!!
That's different!
So the girls (new and old friends) really seemed to enjoy being around me and I felt very confident.
I make people laugh, cook great food for them, entertain them... but not GUBU.
Nooooooo. GUBU NO LIKE GOAT GAL!
(Okay. Maybe HE LIKE in small doses.)
Keep reading....H and I been calling each other again, back to emailing, texting more... he stayed here while I was gone Friday night, and sounded disappointed (?) that he couldn't stay until I got back on Saturday afternoon.
THAT was weird. First time I ever got the impression that he WANTED to see me. Hmmmmm......
Definitely NO mention of wanting to "talk" or anything else heavy. He was just talking about the dogs, random things. It was weird.
The phone call we had was as if nothing had ever happened between us, (except no "I love you" at the end).
I drove home that morning feeling the tiniest bud of love in my heart for my old H. I felt he was still in there, I'd spoken with him. I've seen more and more glimmers of him this last week. My feeling was like it was a match lit on a windy night--you have to protect that flame from going out.
I got home a bit hopeful, feeling maybe there is something there after all.
Sunday he was here again, we did doggy toenails, trimmed some matts, sat outside for a bit. It was a beautiful day, very pleasant.
He gave Horton the Hairless Dog a bath so he'd smell nice for our Woof and Wine event.
Our interactions were really nice, friendly, we actually laughed and smiled, he talked more about some people we know and actually asked me about myself.
Second time in two days. Wow.
He also asked if I've gotten a bike helmet yet. (No, but I will).
---------------------------------------------------------------
So--yeah. Woof and Wine.Awesome!!!
There was a band playing, my kind of stuff, I ended up talking with the band members, and will be going play their open mic in their area within the next few weeks. I didn't know that event even existed!
It's always nice to talk "music" and "art" with like minded people.
I had a great time; people were very friendly... men and women talking to me invited me to sit with them, sharing wine and food--the band and I were chatting... of course all the people who knew me from my work with the SPCA dogs were there and it was nice to see them.
I left there feeling GREAT about myself, my life, my abilities--but not so much about my marriage.
I kept imagining GUBU there and that thought was a real downer.
The old H would have enjoyed it, but perhaps would have not liked me being so friendly with people, because it makes him uncomfortable.
Like he'd feel diminished somehow... thinking back I've seen this before in some social situations.
He'd say negative things about the most accomplished people there, having to put them down, telling me afterwards that he couldn't believe I'd said X.Y,Z... and me thinking I'd put my foot in my mouth. Made me self-conscious.
Looking back now, I don't remember anyone ever being upset with me, only HIM telling me that I talked too much, or whatever. People seemed to like me, so now I wonder what all that was about.
Now I think he felt I was "showing him up" or something.
Shining too brightly. As if I should be less talented and friendly because he'd feel better about himself.
That is really sad.
I don't toot my own horn or shove my accomplishments in peoples' faces. I say things here because I'm sharing my thoughts. But in real life, that would be RUDE. And I don't "do" rude.
But gee whiz--when people are confident, they don't seem bothered by the fact that I have some interesting abilities. To go along with my disabilities!
That I can "entertain" them is a plus. For everyone except GUBU, I guess.
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So the downside was--once again being around people who really seem to enjoy me, then coming home and dealing with GUBU who can't seem to find one good thing about me, or at least that he will share with me.
That's where we're back to now. I sent him one pic from the event because he asked me to.
He texted back "Great!!!" Sunday afternoon and then I heard nothing from him until Monday night when he was on his way here.
I actually called him because the text got cut off (An accident? I worried.)
We ended up laughing on the phone. He was very upbeat.
But when he got here, he stayed busy, and pretty much dashed and ran. Nothing from him until late today, just a brief text saying he had to work late but that he'd come if I wanted him to.
I said I'd take care of the animals on my own, no worries.
I do not expect to hear anything more from him tonight.
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So I'm just leaving him alone. I figure he's working stuff out, and being around me is too hard. He's got to know he's been a total chit to me over the last few years.
I'm remembering some more not-so-nice things he's done, now that I'm calming down and thinking a bit more clearly---and for sure he's got to be remembering too. That can't feel very good.
I KNOW he has enjoyed the time we've spent together. I know he sees me doing things, being happy, my friends checking up on me and keeping me busy. I know I look great and I'm actually having a pretty good time, all things considered!
It does sting a bit that every time we have a nice time together, he withdraws. But I've learned to expect it.
I don't really understand why they do that, but they do.
Almost like they don't WANT to like us, or enjoy our company, because that would mean they were WRONG.... or it would make it hard to blame us, carry out their evil plots...
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So call it a "Touch and Go" or "Pursuit and Distance", whatever. It's the same.
We get closer, and then he scurries off. Three steps forward and two steps back.
But seeing some of my H in there, little smiles, little laughs. That is HUGE.I think the therapy is helping him get some clarity about himself.
And the bike rides are also helping him. That has always been how he thinks: Either running or cycling. He needs that, so I'm happy he's doing it again.
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But let's talk more about ME!Me! Me! MEMEMEMEMEEEEE!!!
I've been off the board for a bit, just taking a break and because I've been busy, working up some new tunes for a gig at the end of the month, brushing off some of my (currently stale) guitar skills.
It's going to be great.
Plus I'm GALing my butt off.
Sleep is better thanks to a new sleep med from Dr.
It's working wonders and it helps with my appetite and general anxiety during the day. It's a very low dose, but boy, does it help!
My overall attitude is better and I know that good sleep is at the core of that improvement.
I've gained almost five pounds since I started it. I'm quitting at that gain, but want to maintain it since a stressful setback could cause me to lose that and more.
More to come down the road....
---GGG
Glad to hear Shakespr and Wonka got the housebreaking under control in my absence!
Chihuahuas are my specialty. We've had maybe--15? over the years. The older and more decrepit, the better!
But they are notoriously hard to house train.
I have three ChiChi girls now, Prudence, Iris, and Olive--a two pound dwarf.
All throwaways... but I love 'em.
---GGG
GGG ,
Glad you are feeling well. Have I told you that I imagine you giving off a Nancy Sinatra vibe with the "These Boots Are Made For Walking"? 3 Chis, huh? They look like bats to me. (I'm partial to big dogs. The more bear like the better).
GB--I like the big ones too!
I like all the weird ones, bizarre, really big or really tiny. Basically the mutants.
We have had Bullmastiffs over the years.
Now we have a blockhead Cane Corso, Bronwyn, and a Beefy Akita Mix who looks like a Giant Panda, Parker.
So yeah. I do big and little.
Medium, not so much.
Horton is the only medium sized dog I've ever had. But that's because he's bald!
No discrimination!
---GGG
GGG- catching up and so glad to see some movement! Your H likely GGG, he just can't admit it b/c he doesn't even like himself.
You keep on GALing and as FY said to me recently- he will come running with his tail wagging behind him
GGG - so funny
I am on self-moderation thanks to a recent setback. So no advice from me, none whatsoever. Huh-uh.
However, I love the name Bronwyn (almost named my daughter that one...but the extended family squares thought we were being too Welsh and/or archaic.) Couldn't get the wife to agree to Arwen (LotR reference.)
I had a BIG Boxer (~70) lbs named Athena before this little Chi. Who just won't stop pee/pooping where she shouldn't. When you figure in that this little creature senses the stress in the house, it's a wonder they don't drop diarrhea at every step.
hi goatgirl
was reading your post of 9-7, ya know, what you say could come from my mouth. i get a glimmer of old man - i do not think anything changes (really) tho. where this guy went-idk.
your comment later about you having a great time with people and they like you- then h picking at you for - whatever. me too- what the heck IS that anyway? My mom used to do the same - my freinds mom also- jealousy of our attention??? my h loves huge crowds , like a fair, where he's ananoymous. He sits in a corner at parties - prefers one on one with people. wtf??? he can be very charming and everyone always likes him - when he is inclined to participate. it's such a mixture of insanity.
What's holding me back is only FEAR.
Fear of walking away from all this when it could have been saved.
Fear of giving up when there was still hope.
Fear of moving forward when it might be wiser to wait just a little longer.
I know, me too - I share your fears- how do we ever know when it is "enough". Those here that seem to know- say we WILL KNOW when it is time for us to just give up - this bit of wisdom will find us. I hope so - it is strictly one more day at a time for me. It's been so long- i still cannot imagine h not being somewhere in my life. just a "buddy" tho- i'm not so sure that can work forever for me.
you sound great - and gal-ing like mad. My H is soooo what you describe - that he all of a sudden can't find anything good aboutme. past year- when together he is alot nicer and "old self". No "love" tho -
sometimes i wonder if he's is truly mlc - and there is even a prayer he'll "return" to normal - or if i imagined the entire 30+ years of (what i thought was)happiness with each other.
could make ya feel nuts co uldn't it?
it stinks -good luck- hope your h wakes up.
xxo
Hi Nero,
Good to hear from you!
I hope we will know when it's time to throw in the towel.
I am OK with where I am now, but I won't be able to hang out here forever.
At some point, somebody's got to make the first move, one way or the other.
Today's juicy tidbit is that my being "thoughtful" seems to tick him off.
I guess it makes it hard to dislike your spouse when they're basically everything you want in a mate!
Boy, that must make them MAD!
So he responds to nice texts with nasty ones. Then blames it on driving, being tired... but never apologizes.
There is always a "reason" why he said something snide/did something nasty.
That shows me he's still screwed up in the noodle.
Whenever he says: "Well... THAT was because...." it means he is not going to own anything he's doing.
So the nasty texts are because he thinks I'm saying mean things?
(I'm not. His interpretation is that I'm attacking. About nothing! I doubt a normal person would interpret anything I'm saying as snippy or sarcastic.)
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So today, I got him a pizza to make when I'm gone this weekend, something he's always liked.
No expectation of thanks, it's a very small thing to do for him.
I mentioned it in a text about the upcoming weekend, saying it was on sale, so...
He texts: "I TOLD you I was cutting back. Take all the friggin pizzas with you for all I care!"
Guess he can add that to my list of fatal flaws.
"Wife bought me a frozen pizza because I used to eat them every weekend for 15 years."
Yeah, he told me he was cutting back on the refined carbs. TWO DAYS AGO!
He's watching his figure now, in his new clothes, with his new white teeth.
And, silly me, I didn't know he hadn't eaten the last pizza.
So now there are at least TWO in the freezer.
TWO PIZZAS!!!! WE GONNA DIE!!!!! Oh NOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo!!!!!!
Bring the hangman's noose! Because if he doesn't string me up, I'm going to use it on myself.
(Just kidding.)
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Seriously, he is trying to find any little thing to demonstrate how leaving me is the right decision...anything he can point to to say "See? She's hopeless."
But he JUST---CAN'T---QUITE---MAKE THAT WORK!
I actually feel the more he likes me, the more he resents me, the more he WANTS to hate me.
Hating me would make things easier for him, he could keep going down the track he's been on, secure in the belief that I am the problem.
Liking me means he has to deal with the internal conflict over what he's doing.
And he wants to do what he's doing, so he needs to NOT LIKE ME!
As soon as he starts to feel a little warm and fuzzy towards me, he has to find some reason why he shouldn't.
Strangely, one would think that if you started to have feelings for your spouse after filing for divorce, that would be positive.
Thinking...Maybe D is not a good idea.
Thinking...Maybe you were wrong----and that's a GOOD THING!
Thinking...Your spouse is actually pretty cool! Lucky you!
Thinking... "Boy, am glad I figured this out before the ink was dry on the divorce decree!"
But the operative word here is: THINKING.
But these guys/gals.
It's like they want to continue down their path even if their soul is screaming "You're making a mistake!!!!"
There is too much emotion and not enough reasoning going on.
And so ends another oddball day on the Triple GGG Ranch.
---GGG
GGG, I get sooooo excited when I get to read one of your colorful and entertaining posts. Thank you for being such a bright spot in this mess. I'm sorry for the pain and stress you have, and the overwhelming responsibilities at times....but, I love your outlook, your humor, and your way of viewing the world. For me, it's a fun break from the other stuff
.
GGG(G),
Boy, do I know what you mean. At one point about 8 months after B-day, I was eating gluten free crackers and cheese. The only reason I was eating gluten free crackers was because, since her MLC, she has been on a health kick because her new mom told her that was what she should do as that is what her father eats! But any way I offered her some. She got VERY upset and started accusing me of trying to kill her. Kill her by giving her high cholesterol!
At first I thought she was joking. Then she really went off saying I'd RATHER she were dead, that way I'd get her life insurance, that because she wanted a D I hated her and this was how I was going to get her back. She was serious! Nothing I said would make her stop. She also said this in front of both our girls. The next week, she went to see her GP and went back on AD's.
I also noticed during the time she was here between B-day and when she left, that every time she started to feel the least bit "warmer" toward me, she would do something to cause an argument or make up something I had said or done that made her "feel" angry toward me once again.
So, your not alone. Just another of the long list of crazy things that are all part of the good old MLC script!
This just in! After helping my W out getting my D14 when she was locked out of the her mom's house. Tonight I get a nasty text from from my W saying that she found a tick on my D14's dog and It's MY fault because I didn't give her her flea and tick pills that she wasn't due to get until the day after tomorrow! Not only that I somehow am at fault that we are out of said pills (I used the last of them last month). So, no thank you for helping out and being a good father and even helping her so she didn't have to leave work. No I was NICE so she had to get upset, had to find some NEW fault in me. Umm, maybe she's the female GUBU??
GGG,
I posted to you back on Friday and it got chopped by some small, invincible men/women out there. Grrr.
Seriously, he is trying to find any little thing to demonstrate how leaving me is the right decision...anything he can point to to say "See? She's hopeless."
A lot of the times the MLCers find it incredibly hard to climb down from that mindset which means that they're clearly in the "wrong" about the source of their own unhappiness. It is just easier to assign blame on the LBS rather than confronting your own uhappiness and figuring out your chit.
Clearly GUBU isn't ready yet. It seems that this internal processing occurs when they're pretty much out of the tunnel. That's what happened to me here and I'm always forever grateful to MWD and this site for aiding me in this process.
Gosh, it must be hard on you and other LBS to see glimmers of the old spouse within the MLCer appear so sporadically. It is hard for all parties involved...the LBS and the MLCer.
Yes, fellow DBers, I'm still here, busting away on my mountainside.
It's been crazy on this board, posts disappearing... so it was a good time for another break.
All is well around here.
I'm sleeping better, eating better, focus is better, mood is better.
I'm just BETTER.
GUBU is mostly H now when I see him. Granted, these are short periods, but so far (!) GUBU hasn't made an appearance since the last snippy text about the pizzas.
(So, that was last week.)
He has not said a peep to me about "the future" or any of that stuff, and I'm not asking. We're just getting along, working together on some projects, chatting, all friendly-like.
Now. I've been here before.
He does seem to like when I'm like his (hot!) guy friend, working on man-stuff.
(One of my aces in the hole. I'm good at that buddy thing. I like old cars, mechanical stuff... I can drive a backhoe...)
This is a non-threatening, non-emotional way to spend time where he is in his element.
I have no delusions that this is going to be a permanent state for him. I'm sure there will be more lapses into his GUBU personality whenever things don't go his way.
He seems to have been reassured that I am spending time with FEMALE friends, am not packing to move, don't have a boyfriend....
Call it "keeping me on the back burner", or whatever... I think it's more important that we get along.
He's not actively doing anything hurtful to me, so I see no reason to be unavailable or distant, or even all that dark. I don't initiate much, and I am definitely NOT pursuing.
I'm just moving on, letting him see that, but also being friendly and keeping the interactions light and positive. Plus, I am seeing him look at me more and more. Just sneaking little glances. So I'm not REALLY like a guy friend!
I still see him smiling more, laughing more. And--GASP!!!--- he is growing his beard back!
That was something that really bugged me. And he knew it.
He refused to grow it the way I liked, saying he wanted to look like those 50-somethings with the stubble on the (VIAGRA!) commercials.
Plus it was how he started wearing it with OW last year.
So--I have noticed, he's seen me looking. But I haven't said anything.
If it stays, I'll tell him it looks nice.
Oh. And I noticed he's dressing a little better when he's here working, and his chore clothes have returned.
AND--although he doesn't exactly seek me out when he's here, he's staying longer.
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I have been GALing like crazy, exploring some new ideas musically, stayed with a friend in a nearby city last weekend and really enjoyed exploring her neighborhood.
The other day when I returned from my friend's house, he--wait for it---
WAITED FOR ME TO COME HOME!
He hasn't done that in a year. He always avoids me, because I guess I'm all "happy".
This time, he was just sort of hanging around. I was really shocked.
He actually stayed around and chatted with me a bit.
Wholly cats!
I think his depression is lifting. I don't know if he's started meds, or it's the bicycling, or the therapy, or maybe just time.
I don't think it has anything to do with me, but he seems to be feeling better overall. He looks better too.
He is still being transparent with the financials, credit cards... so if there was something going on (a new OW or hookers!) I'd know about it.
He's pretty much at work, or here afterwards. And when he goes to "his" house, there is NOTHING there. It's in the boonies.
Unless he's having it on with a heifer, he's not involved with anyone out there!
Every weekend he is asking about staying here, and sometimes stays two nights.
(IF I'm out late.)
If he had OW, I don't think he'd be doing this.
You know what? I think he likes me. He doesn't want to, but he does.
I am the best me, and I AM the spouse he would be a fool to leave!
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This weekend I'm doing another dance workshop, then singing with a band on Sunday. The prep for that has kept me pretty busy, which is why I haven't been posting here.
I'll let you know how it goes!
---GGG
GGG,
Some positive update from you! Nice to hear that you're doing better these days...we were all worried about your weight loss.
I'm sure there will be more lapses into his GUBU personality whenever things don't go his way.
Let's see what happens in the next 48-hours!
I think his depression is lifting. I don't know if he's started meds, or it's the bicycling, or the therapy, or maybe just time.
I don't think it has anything to do with me, but he seems to be feeling better overall. He looks better too.
In what ways do you think GUBU's depression is lifting?
Please try to remember that this will be a zig zag pattern for some time.
Please try to remember that this will be a zig zag pattern for some time.
Put in
BOLD for emphasis
hey hi-
glad to hear that things are going well there on your mountain. good luck - it's interesting that it alllll is variations on a theme - all of our paralell sitchs.
my h did eventually stop being soooooo "lookin" for things wrong & picking & flying off the handle. here, i don't think it means toomuch- but at least it's alot more easy to "live with". you are so right that they need to make us "the enemy" - or else they are totally "the rat".
just had a phone chat that was perfectly pleasant & normal. h returns here tues - then a trip up to new england- look around, enjoy the leaves, etc.
like you- i will "settle" for peace & harmony. i cannot "do" open hostility and am glad it doesn't seem to be around that much any more. It all makes me anxious to just "get on with it". I squelch that also- .i know the drill - no expectations.
It's alllllll too long and slow and big a bore- this whole (apparently necessary) process. I don't say it or show it - just sayin here, to you. 3 yrs, five years - i can't even remember. long long time - oh well huh?
no expectations, no end in sight , just here holding the fort. i keep telling myself at least i'm safe and not starving and not in bad health- a heck of alot to be glad for. so, why can't "we have it all" - again?????????
right - left - right - left -
xxo glad things are going well with you.
Thanks, Wonka and Cadet.
At this point, it's drilled into my head that I will continue to ride the roller coaster for a long time, as long as I can stand it, anyway.
I have seen the ups and downs all along and I am fully prepared for him to cycle back around.
In fact, just this morning he sent the "I won't be there" text about tomorrow.
No explanation, even though he usually gives me one.
(Pushes my buttons, no doubt part of why he does it. In the past, his passive aggression has included being vague or deliberately misleading as a way of asserting some "control". Whatever. That's his problem.)
Although I briefly run the scenarios through my head:
"What? Does he have a DATE? From his dating site?" "What will she be like?" "Should I be worried...?"
I stop myself from thinking along these lines.
The fact is, I have no idea.
He could well have a therapy appointment, just want a night off, be doing anything or nothing.
I can't stop it---so why bother working myself up about it?
But this type of text still irritates me a bit, because it seems a flagrant "in your face" because "I'm being deliberately mysterious and vague to keep you off balance" type of move.
But then again, I'm probably reading WAY too much into it.
He's just asserting his independence from mommy and not giving me information because he just doesn't feel he needs to.
I stop myself from trying to understand why one week he'll give me detailed accounts of his whereabouts, and the next, pointedly not tell me anything, or outright lie to me.
(Yes, I've caught a few of those too, about things that are so inconsequential that lying about them is silly, but whatever.)
In accordance with how I would like to be treated, I let him know where I'm going and how I can be contacted.
I am a responsible adult, and since I am the primary caregiver for these animals, he does need to know if I get stuck somewhere or how to get me in an emergency.
This ^^^^ is only IF he is staying here and I am gone late or overnight.
When I am here alone, I don't tell him my whereabouts or much of anything else.
I know he looks at the bank account every day, so he has a good idea of where I am based on my spending. By the same token, I could monitor his whereabouts the same way, but right now I choose not to because it constitutes snooping and just gets me worked up.
I don't tell him about every my appointment, so why should he?
If it impacts the other person, I think it's common courtesy to do so, but courtesy, empathy, and manners are still pretty much MIA on his end.
But yeah, it bugs me that he just states he won't be here and doesn't give a reason since I'm the one who has to cover for him.
I do believe this is deliberate on his part.
"Why?" is an answer I probably will never get.
For myself, I continue to be transparent. I have no reason not to be.
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I was at a party last week where people were saying:
"Don't post this or that pic on Facebook!" (It wasn't even a wild party--pretty darn tame.)
I laughed about it with a few (mature) friends and said "I don't care what pictures of me they post!"
If I look ugly, I can untag myself!
I am never going to get caught doing anything that I don't want people to see.
My own mother can look at anything I'm doing, anywhere, with anyone, and feel proud that I'm her daughter.
The same goes for my husband.
I firmly believe that integrity is about how you behave even when no one is watching. And integrity is something I do have and value highly in others.
I have a great time doing lots of things, but I don't do anything I will later regret.
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On the upside, H's same "I won't be there text" had a few good points.
1. He ASKED me yesterday if I'd be available tomorrow night before he made this announcement. In the past, he'd almost never check if it would be a hardship for me or not.
2. He didn't ask "how LATE EXACTLY" I'd be out Saturday night.
(Good thing, because I had my speech planned about how from now on he was going to have to manage whatever discomfort he had about me not being definite about what time I'd return home, instead of me enabling him to avoid dealing with whatever the issues were that caused this discomfort. So far, that little talk is on hold.)
3. He also said he'd stay over here Saturday for sure, and maybe even Sunday.
This is a big deal because he NEVER stays Sunday night. He has to be to work really early in the morning on Monday with all that entails.
Usually he's ready to be away from here by Sunday afternoon, and to be honest, I'm ready to see him go too! I'm also not ready to be around him all that much. It's too hard.
But this ^^^ means that he will be here all day Saturday, Sat. night, all day Sunday and Sunday night. AND I WILL BE AROUND A LOT DURING THAT TIME.
Hmmmmmmm......
I'm not making much out of this, but it is A CHANGE.
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Wonka, you asked what things I saw that led me to believe that his depression is lifting.
It's subtle things, really.
He smiles more, he's been cracking a few jokes. He smiles AT ME.
He doesn't seem as anxious to get away from me, although he's hardly chasing me down to spend time with me.
He appears to like my company as long as we're busy working together and talking about the job at hand.
I don't think he's ready to just hang out and shoot the breeze "socially".
I couldn't take much of that either right now.
There is a light in his eyes. He doesn't look as "gray" in the face.
He's lost that bloated belly... carries himself more upright, more upbeat in his mannerisms.
He is calming down...before he was in a constant, anxious kind of motion.
It's like he seemed uncomfortable in his own skin, and couldn't get away from himself.
The constant business seemed like it was keeping him distracted and prevented him from thinking about things that maybe he didn't want to think about.
Now he's told me he's working on "Chapter Two" of his "book". Yes.
This man who hates to read and write, the terrible speller I married, is actually two chapters into a book on rescuing animals.
The fact that he can devote himself to, and sustain his attention on something that is SO out of his norm, and taxes abilities that are not his strong suit--well, that says something.
(I don't know WHAT it says, but it is "different".)
He is less condemning about other people, and has said a few nice things about me, and others.
He has expressed ongoing concern about my mother and her degenerating condition. He asks for updates almost daily. This is more like how he used to be.
He has still not asked me about how I am doing, but he probably afraid I might upset him with my answer.
He is reaching out to people again. He has been back in touch with his college girlfriend. (He says SHE contacted HIM, but who knows. She's on the other coast.)
Prior to OW, I was NEVER threatened or jealous about former girlfriends. I still feel that way. But OW is different. That still pisses me off.
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From what he says, she's a mess. (I don't think he's lying about this, I've heard from others that she has been living in a shelter, pretty much a shell of her former self.)
She's his age, and is suffering from a lifetime of drug abuse and bad living. She was a damaged person from the start, which he knew, but I think he was saddened to learn that she has basically ruined her body from drugs and is now a recluse.
That she never dealt with her demons, and this is what happened. She's alone, sick, and has wasted most of her life.
He felt about her like she was a kindred spirit back in the day.
This could be HIM if he doesn't turn things around.
He has been in touch with her several times from what he's said.
I used this as an opportunity to validate his caring for her after all these years, how sad I was for him to learn this, and for her. For him to let me know if this musical project she's working on comes about because I'd love to hear it. (True.)
Funny, he talked about her quite a bit. I guess she sent him pictures and he said he was shocked--that she looked like she was 100 years old.
Then he talked about some other old pics where "She was always so cute. She could have been your sister."
I have seen old pics of her and that's true.
In many ways, she and I are a lot alike in personality, interests, and more.
The main difference is that she was an emotionally damaged girl from the start (a bad attraction for him).
And I am mentally/emotionally healthy and available.
However, in the big picture she was NOT like OW, except for being damaged.
She was very talented, perhaps more than he, and admired her for this.
She could also do the "guy stuff"...That's another similarity she and I share.
And he WAS NOT THREATENED BY HER ABILITIES.
So perhaps he really DOESN'T want a needy, co-dependent, put-him-on-a-pedestal/stroke his ego/act like a hooker with the porn replays type like his OW was.
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Instead of being concerned with him being in contact with an old flame, I am encouraged.
He has shown concern, TALKED TO ME ABOUT HER, and recognizes how her life unraveled. He has drawn favorable comparisons between her (his big love) and me.
I also used this conversation as another way to inject a few "Truth Darts".
About how she did the best with what she knew, that she made mistakes, but it's good that he still cares for her and she is now doing the work to turn her life around. How lucky she is to have people who love her no matter what, and how that support helped her start to get well.
That redemption is possible.
And people can still love you, even although they might not like what you do.
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But he IS better. It's just baby steps, but it's definitely THERE. It's encouraging, even in small doses.
I find myself hoping that as he comes into the light he will see ME as a good thing, a desirable thing, and not use his newly found energy (and sense of self?) to find a "better replacement".
I suppose it could happen. But there's nothing I can do about it, so no use worrying about that either.
I'm just getting on with my DB/GAL/PMA/STFU/CTHD program, and it's working for me. I'm making myself happy.
Making himself happy is up to him, however that turns out.
I like to think that being with me is an enjoyable thing. He's the one missing out, in my opinion.
And so unfolds another day on the mountain!
---GGG
Nice to hear from you, Nero.
Yes, the peace, when it comes, is so welcome.
This is a bit of a harmonious phase right now, and believe me, I am taking advantage of every minute of it!
I am finally finding my way to walk that fine line between "moving forward" and "keeping the road home paved." It's not easy, but it's getting easier.
It IS about focusing on myself 100% or close to it. Improving myself and controlling my own behavior. Letting the rest GO.
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The fact is, I just don't give H ANY REASON to dislike or avoid me, or spew at me. (Not that he needs one, but it's harder to fight someone who doesn't react or engage, who meets your anger with peace. Like Ghandi.)
There is really nothing he can point to to say: "SEE? THAT is why I need to divorce her."
He's got----NADA. ZIP. ZERO to pin on me. No ammo whatsoever.
He is grasping at straws to get angry with me. He still tries, but I just kill him with kindness.
But I am not a doormat and he knows this as well.
I don't tolerate disrespect and my boundaries, as they exist now, are firm.
I am strong and independent.
Which is not to say I don't want a partner, and wouldn't appreciate help.
I just don't "need" as much as I thought I did.
I'm sweeter, more compassionate; a better listener.
I give him all the space he wants, am happy doing my own thing, without needing him to make me complete.
I am upbeat and fun to be around.
I am busy learning and growing, and spending lots of time with people who enjoy me and are hosting me almost every weekend.
(Gee. If all these people really like me, what's up with him? That's got to sink into his GUBU brain somewhere...)
Although H is no longer on FB, his "Work Wife" and friend of ours has been commenting positively and frequently on my various Facebook adventures. She had stopped completely, being a much closer friend to him and probably hearing lots of crap about why he needed to be rid of me.
Now I have no doubts she is giving him an earful at work about how much freaking FUN I'm having!!!!
Knowing him, he's curious. And I am GALing like crazy. Great pics, great times. All there for him to see I'm not making this up. I am having a wonderful life.
I have learned to be caring without interfering. To allow people to be who they are. If they are unkind to me, I don't need them around.
And it's not an act. It's real, and it's me.
That's WHO I AM NOW.
I have improved myself as far as being less judgmental, validating and listening more, talking less. Letting things go.
Waiting and being calm.
I've learned to modulate my voice and body language when I'm upset.
(And around him, that's a lot of the time.)
I'm a bit softer, more "feminine" in a way... just backing down a bit and not being quite so powerful, at least in my physical expression.
I am showing more vulnerability, more capability.
I am playing up my sexy side, which I had been playing down because he objectified my body so much.
I encourage him to find his own solutions, and stop myself from solving problems that he is struggling with on his own.
I am more clear in my communication, verbal and nonverbal.
I am more appreciate of him and what he does for me.
For who he is.
And I give him the respect I feel he deserves even if he himself doesn't think he deserves to get it.
I don't condone bad behavior, but I believe in treating ALL people with respect. That definitely includes him.
And it's who I WAS as well, I'm just "DBing-Improved".
Like a bionic Goat Gal!
And it is paying off with everyone, not just H.
---GGG
PS: I have learned SO much from this board, that I am one who can say that even if I can't save my marriage, I am a better person for this experience.
I am so grateful to everyone for their ongoing support and encouragement.
I am literally a new and improved Goat Gal.
Today is FARM BOY Day, Y'All!I did tell H about it... he seemed OK with the idea.
So far, anyway.
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GUBU was silent all day yesterday and didn't even tell me he was coming, He showed up unannounced, (regular time) but didn't say a word.
I KNOW he does this deliberately for whatever reason, because he ALWAYS tells me when he leaves work, or if he'll be late, etc.
So not doing so is a deliberate act.
This is the second day of this phase. The day before he didn't say he was on his way, but finally texted me when he was down the road. Okay then.
Whatever...
But if he was hoping for a reaction (like me saying to "please not show up unannounced, common courtesy", etc.)
he didn't get one. I just ignored it. Like all bad behavior. I told him afterwards via text that I was surprised he had been and gone.As if to say I was so busy practicing I didn't even notice how late it was and that he wasn't here yet. Because he is not IMPORTANT enough for me to actually CHECK.
Telling him that his not calling/texting he was on his way, and not caring what time, or whatever... it didn't even register with me.
So whatever he was trying to achieve by that little passive-aggressive act, he didn't pull it off. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
So here's the weird part; ANOTHER CHANGE: I jokingly sent a text to him after he left asking: "Wow. I didn't even know you were here. I didn't see your truck and I was even out gathering firewood. Are you invisible or something? Weird..." PS: "That was a joke "
(True about getting wood. So he knows I wasn't avoiding him, just didn't see him.)
He replies: "Yes. Invisible. And Shape-Shifter. Whichever..."(Hmmm. "Shape-Shifter"??? Means he is one thing, then another. Absolutely.)
Later on he starts these weird text volleys to me.
It turns out to be the longest REAL text convo we've had in recent months. It wasn't about our R or anything.
H: Goes on and on about his "book", finally says
"it's a memoir".I ask: "A memoir? I hope this doesn't mean you're planning on kicking the bucket soon. All that "unfinished business" ya know. LOL..."H: "First chapter is about our first rescue dog..." (OUR dog. That we got when I was in school. That we got because I loved animals....it changed our lives forever.)
ME: About our first dog:
"That's a great story to remember..."Then he CONTINUES: "Gotta write, every day... gotta write, that's the way...." (HUH? Okay....? This is WEIRD FOR HIM to say. Doubly weird for him to go on and on like this. He said
"Goodnight/gotta go/later/bye" four times and yet kept on chatting with me. I had said goodbye every time. But he kept popping back on.)
I say "I'm writing every day too, no book for me though."H: 'Book, schmook... first chapter is done... next chapter: "THE BASTARD". ("The Bastard"???? Hmmm. I didn't bite though.)
Me: "I guess I'll just have to read it sometime. Goodnight."Gotta go, get some things ready for Farm Boy. We will have a Guinness on the porch afterwards to celebrate the absence of GUBU tonight.
I have GAL activities scheduled all weekend. We'll see how it turns out....
---GGG
GGG,
A nice update!
It is nice to see your spouse slowly return to "normal" with smiles, jokes, and feeling a bit more upbeat. It appears that his work with his IC is "working" and having some impact on him. All of that is good for HIM. You gain a side benefit from the IC too. And you didn't have to lift a finger in the IC's room! Sweet!
Dang...I'm really, really curious to know what GUBU meant by "The Bastard." I am sure it'd make for some riveting reading!
Ohhhhh...the agony of not being able to break into his diary and taking a peek at it....ohhhh man.
By the way...how did the Farm Boy work out for you? Did you get a look at his young and lithe body?
Just a quick update---things been KWAZY up in here!Farm Boy is a "go"!Friends have said he's "into" me. I can't see it, but then again, I'm clueless. He's 24! He's also pretty darn hot in every way. Nice, muscular, sweet, good dancer, loves animals, makes his own Kombucha, talks to me about growing herbs, chicken breeds and nutrition, music... and he plays blues harmonica.
What's not to like? He also lives right down the road. In donkey-riding distance!
The boy does contact me several times a week, asks to tag along... whatever.
Anyhow, I'm choosing to remain oblivious at this point for obvious reasons.
FB (Farm Boy) came up last week to hang out, drink some Guiness, play some music, and talk about some projects. I tried to steer the conversation away from me living here alone. When he got here, it was apparent that things have gone to seed around the property, waist-high weeds, wood that needs splitting and stacking, just lots of things left undone. It was obvious that I'm not holding everything together, and that GUBU has pretty much bailed on me in a big way. I saw that clearly through FB's eyes. The truth stung; it was not pretty and I think he started to feel sorry for me.
I don't want anyone's pity. I am making the most of things and that's all I can do.
In any case, I have him lined up for some gardening to start and GUBU knows about this. So far, so good. No drama.
(And, noticing him noticing me... well, at least I know my sex drive isn't dead after all. And no. No funny stuff. Just stating a fact. Good for me to know!)
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As for GUBU (yes, he's back to GUBU again)
I have been holding my tongue.I did my gig with the blues band on Sunday and they liked it so much they asked me to record with them before the end of the year, maybe do a CD.
I shared this with GUBU and although he *said* (via text) he was happy for me, he quickly followed this with:
"So glad you had the free time to pursue this."That's about where I lost it. Seriously?
I wanted to say: "Please refrain from pointing out how "lucky" I am to have found myself in this wonderful situation, how "grateful" I should be for my ability to be happy....and for all that "free time", being alone 24/7 unless I can manage to get out of the house..." Yeah. It's all Butterfly Farts and Velvet Rose Petals in this house!He continues to act like HE is the one who is having a hard time.
But I didn't say it. I didn't say it.
I wrote the text/email more than once. Then deleted, deleted.
I am still fired up.... But I had a big swig of STFU and CTHD.... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
________________________________________________________________________________________________
But things are going quite well for me at the moment. I'm a bit stressed now because he has said AGAIN, that this Sunday he wants to
"talk about the future for us."GULP. Here we go again!I have decided that I'm not going to tell him my plans "for the future" because: 1. I have no idea what they will be.
2. He needs to extend himself somewhat and not just ask me to put all my cards on the table.
3. I am fine with the status quo. I'm not changing a thing. I'm doing much better emotionally and I have no desire to mess with that.
4. He is the one who needs to do the work. Either he will, or he won't.
5. He knows FULL WELL what I need to even consider moving closer to a R. I don't need to repeat myself.
6. I am not giving one inch on my boundaries. I don't need to, I don't want to, and it would not be good FOR ME.
On the plus side:He is still in therapy.
He is still working on his "book".
I have seen the bank/cc statements and there is nothing to indicate he is doing anything other than going to work, sometimes drinks with staff, going to therapy, and coming here for chores. Nothing hinky whatsoever.
(No--NOT snooping, but I had to look to check a deposit as well as a fraud notice....and while I was there....)He is communicating more via text and in person about more "personal" topics.
He is staying here longer and not avoiding me as much.
He isn't asking so much about my specific schedule--but strike that--he started that up again today.
He stayed here Sat and Sun last weekend without incident. That was a big thing.
We have been working together side-by-side successfully on various projects.
He continues to say "we" and "us" about various household concerns, and slipped on Sunday and called me "Honey." I don't think he caught it, but I did.
Although he has tried to push my buttons, I have successfully avoided taking the bait. I can't say this has been easy, but I've been able to do it.
He generally has been in more contact, but true-to-form, after moving closer together, he sort of backs off for a day or two. Which is fine, because I feel the same. Being around him is exhausting.
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The thing which seems to p*ss him off the most is me being happy and moving forward. He seems to want credit for facilitating that for me. And that gets my goat. (Get it? "Goat"??? Hahahaha!
)
He seems to have forgotten that I have been singing and playing since I was little kid, and had a semi-pro music career before we met. He acts as though he has "given" me all this ability and drive.
Sure, he paid for some instruments, sure, he stays here so I can go to gigs, and I appreciate that.
However, the TRUTH is that prior to meeting/marrying him, I did all those things MYSELF and I can certainly do that again. He needs a reality check on that one. I'm the one doing the work.
Yeah. I have plenty of "free time". Being alone every night will do that for a gal....
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He has continued to allude to talking about the "future", granted with no action or information coming from him, so I still don't know why this is coming up, from whom, if it's something he wants or something he's feeling pressured to do.
As the wise DBers say: "In time, all things will become clear."So I'm waiting. Pretty patiently, I must say!
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Sorry I have not been around to comment on everybody else's threads. I have just been working really hard on my GAL/PMA and seeing if I can carve out a new identity as the musician I USED to be.
So far, it seems to be working.
GUBU can try and take credit if he wants, but I know who is making it work, and that's ME.
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That's all for now! Another "talk" to come. Or not! Y'All will be the first to know!
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal---(G)GGGxxxxxooooo
GGG, you sound fantastic. You seem much less stressed about the Sunday future-talk this time around....your strength is showing!!
Oh...I had to Google, "Kombucha", lol.
.....and I'm certain that's the first time I've ever read the words together, "butterfly farts." Died.
.
.
Thank you for sharing your fun fun funny farm!
Hey Shining---thanks for stopping by. Glad I could make you laugh. Sounds like everybody can use one these days!I apologize to all for just lurking on your threads lately but not posting.
I am trying to limit my computer time...and also the time I spend focusing on my sitch.
I do read up on your progress most evenings...but there has been plenty of traffic so I don't feel *too* guilty. (OK. I do. But I have decided that I can only feel guilty about things I've really done wrong, and I'm trying to let some of those "shoulds" go. I have WAY too many of them.)
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Anyhow--UPDATE:Farm Boy came yesterday and was here all day. (OMG. He looked like something from a male stripper revue, you know, the costume before the costume comes off...he even had a machete...but I digress... )
We actually got a LOT of work done and it was wonderful being able to formulate a plan and carry it out with someone who was upbeat and cooperative. (I hate to contrast this with working with GUBU, but it's the truth.)
He will come back again next week to finish up a few more things.
I also really enjoyed his company.
After we were done we sat on the porch and just talked about all kinds of things, laughing, mostly. It is amazing to be with someone who also stops all conversation when he hears a bird call, and jumps up to see what bird it might be!
There was a priceless moment when a raptor screamed loudly overhead, and we BOTH jumped up and dashed off the porch to crane our necks to see it.
We actually bumped into each other. He yells, "It's a Red Tail", I said, "Yeah, really searching for something", he said that call was the "searching for a mate" call (!!!) ..... And he was right. Weird.
He unearthed a copperhead in the overgrown vegetable patch and excitedly called me over to see it.
Who calls a girl over to see a poisonous snake and thinks it's a good thing? Wow. Loved that.
I didn't see it, but I think his snake identification skills are spot on and they do live around here.
We spent some time trying to uncover it to get a pic, but it disappeared. Hopefully not into some crevice where I will soon put my hand...
This kind of thing rarely happens to me--to be with someone who is so similar in quirky ways.
So nice to feel that.
I think we will continue to be good friends.
There was more simpatico stuff, about the food I made for us, all kinds of things.
He is also high fat, low carb, knows his herbs... has low blood sugar problems. So many things were said where the other one said "Wow. I KNOW! You too????"
Then we got onto religion because of this one girl who dumped him.
He is very religious...yet we were laughing about some of the issues we see in some of the young Christians in our area.
I was guarded about expressing my thoughts because I didn't want to offend him, but he was all "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT! That drives ME crazy too!!!" We were rolling....
There was a lot more of this type of thing.
Let's just say, it was a REALLY nice day for me.
I mean, this guy was there, feeding my chickens
from his plate out of his hand, and calling them by name.
Even GUBU doesn't know their names.
I was impressed.
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When he left, he asked about my dance plans for the weekend and said maybe we'd do the same thing over the weekend, carpool, whatever.
As a group. Not as a "date".
I said to him more than once that I am not dating and will not get involved with anyone. So he knows.
And we both expressed a pet peeve about people not being clear in their intentions. If I had a dollar for every guy who asked to "hang out" (I said no) but didn't ask me on a date.
These days one party can think you're "dating' when the other one just thinks you're friends sharing common interests. I have to be very clear in my intentions and what invitations I accept.
As fun as the companionship was, in the end I am still married, and still committed to working on restoring a marriage with my H if that is possible.
Also, Farm Boy-Toy is WAY too young for me, (although GUBU's OW was 30 years younger, half his age), he wants a family, no way anything will ever happen there, but it's just nice to be appreciated.
He did mention he lost his virginity to an older (divorced!) woman. (Not nearly as old as I am, but still.)
Not much in keeping with his religious beliefs, and he regrets it. He thought they'd be together forever.
So he does like 'em "well seasoned"!
Oh yeah, he still lives with his parents!
I just enjoy the attention and keep on laughing...I also told him that I had an understanding with my H that we were not to have people of the opposite gender in the house.
I don't want him, or anyone else, getting the wrong idea or it causing problems in my M.
He was not here as a date, just to do some work as a friend.
That needs to be clear to everyone, including my nosy neighbors.
Farm Boy-Toy was fine with using the bathroom on the lower level (GUBU's BATHROOM!) and coming and going from there.
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Ah yes. GUBU. Have to talk about him for a moment. As predicted, he is back in full force. H has gone back into hiding. *Sigh*
I KNEW he'd be mad when he saw the work done by Farm Boy-Toy, and he was. Even though I was very upfront about needing the help, what I was going to have done, and what he would be paid.
GUBU has deliberately NOT contacted me AT ALL since his last nasty text about how
"Lucky I was to have so much free time" to pursue my musical career.
He has showed up unannounced twice, has said he won't be here this day or that, no explanation, and in the same breath asking for when I was coming and going.
I just didn't bite.
I KNOW he was trying to push my buttons, that he was trying to "get back' at me for SOMETHING.
It didn't work, but that didn't stop him.
I did think a bit about what might have set him off THIS time. It was more than the usual "we spent some nice time together, got closer, and now have to back off a bit" cycle.
This was passive-aggressive nastiness. Very subtle, but definitely there.
Meant to hurt me, get my hackles up, control me/my activities, threaten me with "HIS paying for "all my FUN".... that sort of thing.
Which shows me he is hurt/frightened/frustrated... that he is NOT getting what he wants from me, so he is resorting to his old standby of manipulation, rather then just coming right out and saying whatever it is.
(This is something which needs to stop if I am to remained married to him. I just don't want to live like that anymore.)
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H and I had a really nice weekend, things were cool... But then it hit me. On Tuesday, we worked together with our donkey, and after the farrier had gone, I went inside for a minute and H left suddenly.
I texted him "Wow, you were fast! okay then.. bye! "He CALLED me (rare) and said--"
Hey, sorry, I didn't know you wanted to hang out."ME: (DUH!! SLOW ON THE UPTAKE!!!)
"Ummmm.... no, umm.. just wanted to ask you about (I forget what)
... um, no.... that's OK... um..." (I was tired and distracted, to tell the truth. I was not firing on all cylinders.)
Him: "Oh. I *KNOW* it's "OK"...." Really snippy. And then some other testy chit.
I was wondering why he went from calling me, all upbeat, to "Oh I
KNOW it's "OK"" snarky.
HIS FEELINGS WERE HURT. (He still has feelings for me. Yes he does. It's clear as day. A&&Hat!)
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Yup. That's right folks.
He wanted me to WANT to hang out with him.
Even if he was going to reject me, like when I invited him to "Woof and Wine".
When he didn't even thank me for asking him to go.
I decided after that rejection that I wasn't going to stick my neck out again for awhile.
After this there was more button-pushing by him about his upcoming plans to be (vaguely) "doing *other* things", while continuing to change his schedule over and over, a deliberate attempt to prevent me from making any plans for myself.
I nipped this in the bud by saying,
"Hey, please do whatever you need for yourself. I'll work around it. You work very hard, you deserve some time to have fun.."This p*ssed him off even more!
So he amped it up a bit, some nasty comments about the work FB-T and I did yesterday, fishing to see if he was here. Implying I was lazy or something, pointing out my "failures" in one way or another.
Ok then. It was all bullish*t, meant to hurt me, said everything about his insecurities and nothing about me-- so it didn't bother me.
I really just laughed out loud reading this stuff! (That's a HUGE improvement for me. :))
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What was interesting was observing him trying so hard to bring me down, thinking about how that shows how insecure, jealous, angry, and pathetic he is at the moment.
Here he is, getting everything he said he "wanted" (no wife, lots of time for porn and girls, whatever) and it's just not panning out how he thought.
I am clearly TOO HAPPY and not miserable enough!
It's as if he's angry that I refuse to stay under the bus where he threw me until I've been run over so many times that I'm just a pancake Goat Gal and can no longer peel myself off the pavement!
Then he could just roll me into a paper tube and store me in the closet until he decides to unroll me again. Or not.
I guess my real *mistake* was not just dying after BD.
Letting him collect the life insurance, and leaving him here with all his money and everything just the way he left it, only WITHOUT ME. Life would be perfect, I guess.
I am throwing a monkey wrench into his wonderful plans.
That picture has been and continues to be his idea of what divorce will be like, what he thought he was getting.
Too bad for him it didn't go that way and there isn't a darn thing he can do about it! And it makes him MAD that he can't control how things are unfolding.
I realized recently how much he has tried to control things over the years with his passive-aggressive behavior. And it's not working on me anymore. This also makes him MAD. He's just MAD, MAD, MAD!!!
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Anyhow, back to Farm Boy-Toy. When GUBU hinted about me really
"impressing" him by doing
"ALL that work ALONE"... I
knew he was looking for info about FB-T.
True to my values, I was honest and said yes, as we'd discussed, of course Farm Boy had been here. (Obviously, I didn't do all that ALONE. Which GUBU knew, he was just trying to get something to use against me. He's really stretching now.)
GUBU replies how he isn't "keen on paying him to do things you're perfectly capable of doing alone."Yeah. Thanks. That was nice!But what did I do?
I AGREED with him! Me: "I agree, we shouldn't be paying for jobs we can do ourselves." followed up by other nice stuff.
And he got even madder!!!
Mad because he JUST--CAN'T--GET---MY--GOAT!!!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today he screwed around with his schedule again, finally settled on not being here tonight.
To which I replied: "Cool. That works out well for me then. Thanks for letting me know." My new tactic is going to be asking HIM for HIS schedule so I can be accommodating by working around him. Let's see how HE likes being pestered about EXACTLY WHAT TIME he will arrive and leave, WHAT DAYS he will not be here so I can plan.
Traditionally, he has always asked for my plans, and then planned around that.
Hmmmm....
Sorry for the typos, I am on the fly here.
Happy Friday, all you wonderful DBers!
PEACE OUT.---(G)-GGGPS: Sorry for the super-long post, but I am trying to avoid locking my thread every week!
GGG,
You know how dog training goes. Yeah, you're now training GUBU not to get all passive-aggressive with you. Good job on not rising to his lame-o baits. You're fast on your feet on them.
Ya know...men can get quite competitive if there's a young buck on the scene. Like the Poe analogy...eh. I think GUBU is no different in this regard. Basic animal instincts. If they were rams, oh boooyyyy...they'd be locking horns. There's no real good old fashioned entertainment like the Green Eyed Monster.
My new tactic is going to be asking HIM for HIS schedule so I can be accommodating by working around him. Let's see how HE likes being pestered about EXACTLY WHAT TIME he will arrive and leave, WHAT DAYS he will not be here so I can plan.
A new petri dish experiement??!! My ears are perked up here.
Thanks, Wonky!!!!
I AM trying to "train" GUBU. Ignore the negative, reinforce the positive.
And yes, he *said* he was "fine" with FBT coming to help me, but I knew deep down that it bugged him.
I told FBT the Rooster story, about how H was so angry about the young black rooster, Poe, ousting the older one, Bart.
And FBT says, "OMG. You're talking about (Giant, Muscle-bound, Great Hunk-o, Gorgeous, Guitar-Playing) Dance Guy we're all friends with!!!!"
Yup. He got THAT right!
Yes, it's surely emasculating to know that you aren't taking care of your wife, animals, and property, and she has to hire someone to do what you can't, or won't, do.
So he gets angry at ME and complains about the money, about my inability to be Wonder Woman and lift giant boulders all day, then get up at the crack of dawn and do it all over again.
I actually understand this twisted way of thinking.
But it shows me how lost he is that finding some external cause for what he's feeling is still his mode of operation.
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The sad fact is, I am growing and learning from this and have really improved how I look at things, cope with life, and how I feel within myself.
He, on the other hand, is really struggling. Time will tell if he is ever able to be a whole, loving person. Although I see some improvement, he has a long way to go.
And at this point, I will not settle for what I got before, even long before his MLC/OW and all the rest.
Looking back, I see how poorly he has coped with many things over the years, always resorting to this passive-aggressive manipulation, blaming, running away from important issues, keeping secrets, trying to "be" something that perhaps, deep down, he wasn't.
I wanted to believe that the H that I knew was the "real" one. Now I'm starting to wonder. He is a very damaged person who managed to hold it together, more or less, for most of his life.
I'm just not sure he will EVER be what I need. I need more than just "not being" all the things I don't want. I need a partner who can be, at the least, the core things I do NEED in a R. Not perfection, just certain qualities have to be there.
I don't know if GUBU will ever be able to be that.
And that thought does help me to detach. Every time I start thinking about the future, getting dumped, what he's doing, getting divorced; I remind myself that unless he changes dramatically, he's actually done me a huge favor.
I am still relatively young, healthy, and can get a second chance. I wouldn't necessarily have that if he pulled this act in ten years.
And there is nothing to say that if we cobble things together, that he won't do exactly that.
So---I am still here, still standing, but leaning on the fence a little.
I still find I'm happier without him. He's just not very much fun, very self-centered, and, to tell the truth, I think it's pretty PATHETIC that I get all excited that he doesn't run away from me, or simply isn't nasty to me.
Really. How low can I possibly sink? He texts me "Goodnight" and I feel GOOD.
This is my HUSBAND. This is RIDICULOUS.
If I hit the lottery today, I'd call the locksmith, file for D, tell him to keep his money and good riddance. Hope he finds the endless parade of "Daddy Issue" girls to keep him company... whatever.
I'd be so far gone his head would spin. And I would never see or speak to him again.
This speaks volumes. And it's the truth. Has been for some time.
I need and deserve SO much more than this nonsense. And if I can't have it with him, then I won't be with him. And if no one else is able to fill the bill, then I'll be happier ALONE.
So sayeth the Goddess of Goats.
(Maybe a bit under the influence of the toxic mists of the Oracle. Or perhaps Hard Cider.)
But I'm in for the night, bailed on my First Friday plans. Just a bit tired.
Got big plans for the weekend, and since he wants to "Talk about the future for us" (Round Two! Or NOT!) I need to keep my wits about me.
Goodnight, Divorce Busters...
--(G)GGG
I'm still here, GALing like crazy, reading up on all you DBers at bedtime.
Nothing new to report, other than despite two major pronouncements of wanting to "talk about our future", GUBU has not said a peep about anything.
We've been working together on splitting and stacking wood, two days in a row, so I was right there if he wanted to say anything.
Guess he didn't! Our interactions were pleasant enough, he seemed pretty upbeat. Nothing weird.
I'm starting to get the distinct impression that he wants ME to bring it up. Which I will not.
Next time he mentions this, I'll suggest that since he's into writing these days, perhaps he should write his thoughts in a letter. That way I could digest what he has to say without a lot of emotion. I think this is the only way he's going to be able to spit it out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had a bit of a weird text exchange on Sunday evening after he left. Nothing bad, just some emotional things about how he feels his roommate situation is dysfunctional since she is a caretaker and he's like her (really messed up) father.
Hey--HE said it, I didn't!
Then some rambling on my part, guess I let my guard down.
I said something about his "comfort zone" and he said:
"You have no idea what my comfort zone is."
To which I responded, "I know it's SMALL. And finding people who will fit neatly into it doesn't change that fact. If you want to live confined by your fears, that's up to you. But I choose not to."
And-- TRUTH GRENADE: "I have no doubt that now your "comfort zone" embraces all kinds of (WEIRD KINKY PORN STUFF) that you are interested in having other people do for you."
"The problem arises when you are unwilling to meet the needs of your partner because it requires you extend yourself in ways that make you uncomfortable, where you risk rejection or failure."
In our marriage, he rarely did anything he "wasn't comfortable with" and that included a LOT. He knows this, he knows I'm right about everything I said.
Perhaps I should have kept my texting mouth shut, no doubt I should have. But I am getting sick of this song and dance and just felt I had to say something.
I even said, "I apologize for the medium, but these things weigh on me and sometimes I just have to speak my mind."
And "Like my mother always said, I might not like what you're doing, but I will always love you."
(Oops! Later I realized what I said, but at the time I was thinking--like love from a relative--not "romantic love." Oh well.)
I went on to say I think I was just collateral damage from when he was unhappy and trying to do things to make himself feel better. That I didn't believe he was the kind of man who didn't care who he hurt. How I believed his inherently good qualities outweigh his questionable actions.
How I was sorry that I didn't realize how unhappy he had been and how I was sorry that I was not enough, or couldn't do/say/be enough so that wasn't the case. That I have wracked my brain and couldn't find anything I could have done that would have changed much of anything in the end.
How I didn't believe he ever meant to hurt me, I was just in the path of destruction, and that I believe he has hurt himself as much as, if not more, than me.
I also said that I have forgiven him.
Not for him, but for myself, so I could move forward and let go of that pain.
And I apologized again for venting, that I expected him to tell me to go f*ck myself, and that I was probably the last person who's opinion he wanted to hear.
To all this, he replied.
"No harm. Be well. We'll talk tomorrow. Goodnight...."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I know--bad, bad, bad.
But I felt like I need to give him a bit of input--something to work with here. He has been taking MY temperature off and on, and I've been pretty vague.
I guess this was my way of throwing some stuff out there. Give him something to chew on a bit, without expectation from him.
Nothing I said required a response, I just shared my thoughts.
I also did not say anything which would come off as pursuit, or would indicate I am willing to take him back without major changes.
I just tried to own my part in things, let him know I still cared, and say I was sorry for not seeing things more clearly.
(This is on the tails of an exchange last week where I talked about my healing, how being alone has been very good, how I'm getting into my own rhythm, no distractions... in other words---I'm in NO HURRY FOR HIM TO COME HOME.)
That's all for now, dear readers.
More to come....
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
---(G)GGG
Hm, sounds like the stars that shone on me last week were shining on you on Sunday.
I'm not going to comment on your substance since there are better qualified people working with you here.
I just wanted you to feel this much less alone in the evening. Hugs, my goddess of the goats!
GGG,
Sometimes one just has to unleash true, uncensored, and unvarnished thoughts to the MLCer and one's feeling about the problem/situation. We cannot just tip toe around all over the place all the time like Tinkerbell. It is very tiring to keep all of that up constantly.
Sometimes we all feel like turning the STFU juice bottle upside down and just let it empty onto the ground.
I do have those moments. Especially tonight when I am feeling particularly overwhelmed, cranky, stressed, and confused. Received a response from Ms. Wonka this morning. To top it off, me and my hot girl are no more. Talk about massive confusion! I digress...
Back to you...
You're doing really good, GGG. It is all on GUBU to finish up with his naval gazing and make a DECISION either way. Yep, I think he is massively afraid of rejection. I suspect it's because he KNOWS how much damage he's done to you, himself and the marriage.
It's hellva way to climb down and own up to your chit. Heck, it took me a while to do this as well after coming on the boards and seeing the MLC forums. Seeing the massive damage caused a seismic shift in my perspective and perception on Ms. Wonka and our relationship.
Thanks for checking in on me, Wonka.
Yes, I agree that sometimes you just have to throw something out there. I suppose I could have done it better, time-wise, or with less emotion (which I don't think he picked up on, but I was teary while I was writing.)
I find myself back on the roller-coaster again. GUBU has been vague and manipulative again, just little piddly things.
Some things are starting to affect my PMA...
His immediate superior just quit, leaving him unprotected from the corporate sharks, he's feeling a bit vulnerable.
He did call to talk to me about it, that his schedule would change due to this. I was very supportive about anything he needed.
He mentioned--TWICE--about taking some oddball job that would be a lot like the work he did back when we first met.
(No glory, no power, no money, no bennies, crazy hours, okay....)
I guess this is part of the process. He has defined himself in recent years by being Mr. Big Shot.
But clearly there is a big part of him that just wants things to be the way they were.
Totally understandable.
Of course, the reality is that back then we lived in dumpy apartments and struggled every day to make ends meet, had no health insurance, no retirement benefits.
I don't think he's thinking this way at all... just wanting to recapture his care-free days. I guess "no wife" figures into that picture as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has continued with his therapy, seems less depressed, but some things still get my knickers in a twist:
I saw our joint credit card bill and there was a restaurant charge for $97.00 at a new place that is not by work, and for a day when he was vague about not being here that evening.
It was not the kind of place/location where he would treat his employees to a beer after work.
So I jumped to the conclusion that he was on a "date"
And that it must have been a really GREAT date with someone he's known for A LONG TIME, because you don't spend that much money on a "meet and greet to see who we are" type date.
Of course, it could have been a lunch/dinner with his friend who just quit, taking a few staff members out to lunch at a satellite location... who knows.
But it bothered me.
Still does.
I think of the last few years when he didn't even mention my birthday, forget taking me out for dinner!
I can't remember the last time he took ME out for a nice meal.
The last affection/attention/money he has spent has been on his OW and now whoever this might be.
I on the other hand, have had nothing from anyone. And yet he feels the need to point out how I should thank him for all the great times I'm having.
Gosh, that stings...
The idea that he might be doing this for some woman he is trying to woo really hurts.
I am trying not to think about it. It might not be the case. And if it is, there is nothing I can do about it, other than to feel like crap.
So--change the thoughts, change the feelings.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I could use some guidance about is how to draw this boundary without letting him think I am snooping or trying to control him:
I am willing to cover for work and dr. appointments. I am NOT willing to pick up the slack so he can go on "dates". If that is what he is doing, then he is taking advantage of me.
(Spending money on other women that he harps on me for spending on my Farm Boy Toy for helping with work that he won't help me to do.)
How do I set this down?
And the other one is, he keeps trying to pin me down on when I'm leaving and when I'm returning if he is going to spend the night here--on the couch.
It is really starting to tick me off big time and I feel I'm ready to explode the next time he does it.
He doesn't ask where/who I'll be with, which is fine, but he clearly wants to know FOR SURE that I WILL NOT BE AROUND on these evenings.
I can't think of one healthy reason WHY he would need to know what time I will return.
He is fine being around me doing all sorts of things, so whatever it is that he is doing in the evenings in my absence is something he doesn't want me "interrupting".
I know he will not have anyone here because it's such a pit. It certainly wouldn't impress anyone if that's what he was trying to do. It looks like HIS WIFE lives here in chaos because he hasn't fixed anything.
Yet, I feel this is NOT just hanging out with the dogs and watching TV.
On the same credit card statement, I see he has been using the card to buy what looks like a bottle of hard liquor every 2-3 days, in addition to beer which I do see him drink . In addition to having drinks at a few bars close to where he works.
This is so unhealthy and has me concerned, but what can I do or say?
Not a whole heck of a lot.
I feel I might be enabling him to do things in MY HOUSE which are hurtful to me, and I do not want to allow that.
What "things"?
Accessing porn, drinking to excess, texting/online chatting with OWs, sexting, setting up dates, talking about me behind my back to them as he did with his OW...and all the while being secretive about it, like I'm the bad guy for not being "okay" with it.
Well, I'm NOT OK with it. If that's what he wants to do, he can do it somewhere else.
I don't know how to broach this one, either without putting him on the defensive and setting us back.
I want him to NOT do any of these things because he DOESN'T WANT TO.
Because he would do it willingly FOR ME. Because it hurts me.
I am sure this is asking way, way too much....
---GGG
Hi-Dee-Ho All You DBers!Yes.. I'm still alive, still kicking a** and taking names.
I'm definitely doing better, can't say that much progress has been made on my M, but at least nothing has gotten worse.
Some notes for the Laboratory Report:1. GUBU has only appeared a few times since my last posting, and even then, just very subtly via text. Just some snarky responses to very benign things I said, clearly misinterpreting general statements to be an attack on his character.
I'm not sure why this is, he is just SO DEFENSIVE. I have to be very careful not to make any jokes or use sarcasm, as I might with anyone else on the planet, because he takes things very literally and thinks I'm lashing out at him.
But that's been about it for anything negative. Just passive aggression, as always, and I count myself lucky that it's all he's flung my way.
Still, I have yet to see any real concern for me or my well-being, as well as anything other than the most minimal concern for the animals.
He is still very much all about himself and what he wants.
He is still telling me how great he is at work, how much his staff loves him (yeah, he takes them out for $100 rounds of drinks about every week)
Yet, if I'm having fun, this definitely annoys him.
He still has no social life other than work, and his codependent employee/free room-providing friend.
2. It is very easy for me to hurt his feelings or disappoint him. He will never admit this, but when I look back over our interactions trying to figure out what caused him to get snippy with me, it's always that I have inadvertently hurt him in some way.
Like being out GALing and not telling him, not asking him to hang out, not going out to see him when he's here, not responding with the same or greater degree of connection.
If he responds rudely via text with a "K" or "Later", blowing me off, and I just don't engage at all for a day or so, this bothers him.
I guess I'm just supposed to pursue. Which I refuse to do. And this bothers him too. I am using Zues' (?) rule of 80%. I give back 80% of the warmth he puts out. It seems he wants more, and he's not getting it.
I am not going to do all the heavy emotional lifting and it seems as though he is still trying to take his cues from me. He is still unwilling to risk anything that might lead to rejection.
Sheesh, he seems to feel rejected if I walk away from him too quickly.
But do you think he'd actually seek ME out or ask ME to do anything? Not on your life!
How do I know this? Because he very pointedly does not contact me at all for 24 hours or more, and will show up here unannounced if I do something that upsets him.
He will talk to the dogs as if I'm not there, he'll refrain from telling me his plans, deliberately leading me to believe that he's out living it up. (He's not, sadly.)
Generally, he will behave in a subtly rude manner towards me.
The fact that anything I do has the power to set him off balance tells me he is NOT as "done" as he has said. 3. We have continued to work alongside each other, doing hard manual labor. I swear, the guy loves to see me break my back. It earns his respect. Seems there could be a better way, but for now--okay.
As we work, he talks. He talked a lot about HIMSELF (as usual) his work, his career, his staff... more and more about the old college girlfriend who is sounding more and more like me. That whole thing is weird.
I guess he is Googling her, because he sent me pictures of some jewelry she's made, nice beadwork, things she has for sale. I also said that from the picture I saw, she doesn't exactly look "100 years old" as he described, that maybe he embellished that just a teensy bit? He said, "No. I'll be happy to show you a recent pic." Still waiting on that one.
Supposedly she stopped contacting him; either way, I'm not concerned about it. Being in touch with her was something he was doing earlier on in his MLC, before he got involved with OW. It may be a re-visitation of that period in his life, as he figures things out.
Anyhow, I said I'd love to have one of her pieces if it wouldn't be too creepy to have something from my husband's ex-girlfriend who could pretty much be my older sister. It's really a bit weird. But we both actually laughed about that.
4. I have given him open-ended opportunities to do something nice for me, like pick up a bottle of wine, stop at the Farmer's Market.
So far, he hasn't done anything for me except for fixing my bike several weeks ago (probably mad that I didn't ask HIM to go biking, after he said he prefers to ride alone anyway) and put up a security light two weeks ago, so it's not scary dark up here in the boonies when I get home alone late at night.
Both nice things which I did not request.
To his credit, he will do just about anything I ASK him to do; he just doesn't seem to think of my needs at all. Am I surprised? No.
Sometimes, I'm a bit disappointed because I see more and more of my H these days.
I try to keep my expectations as low as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------
New development!We agreed on a schedule for the rest of the year, just me traveling to different events and to see my mother for an extended period of time.
He does have to take time off from work to accommodate this, but it's not a hardship because the fact is, he loves to be here if I am gone. Always has.
But here's the NEW THING.He was going to come up Friday before I left...
then mysteriously said he'd rather come up and stay over Thursday night because "it would just be easier."
Why it "would be easier" I have no idea. But the point here is:
I WILL BE HOME THE ENTIRE TIME.This is the first time he has wanted to stay here knowing that I would not be going out. That's a biggie!-----------------------------------------------------------
OK. Strike that ^^^^.But it's not bad.
H just called me--a real pretense, if you ask me--to tell me about a radio show he just heard on NPR about Stick Insects.
He just regaled me with two solid minutes of the life cycle of Stick Insects and their importance in the Ecosystem.,,
(Yeah. Good luck finding another woman who really cares about that stuff!)
Oh yeah, and he's going to go for a bike ride Friday morning and then come up rather than staying Thursday night.... *sigh*
Really, just as well because I'm going to be preoccupied with packing to get out of here and it won't be the most relaxing time.
I'm not surprised he backed out, but the thought was definitely there... I'm sure it will come up again at some point.
The Stick Insect conversation was quite pleasant just now. We were laughing....
so all is good.
-------------------------------------------------------------
This weekend I'm going to a dance event, have plans to meet up with friends, I'll be GALing like crazy. Also looking at an area where I might move if I do indeed end up divorced.
I'm still not posting much because I'm trying to keep my mind off D and all negative R stuff, including the existence of GUBU.
My emotions are still all over the place. Still some nightmares, bad thoughts, some fears about the future, some hurt, some ego bruising, some anger.
But all in all, nothing I can't handle or get under control so I don't broadcast that to H.
Some days I find myself with too much time alone and I realized I'm ranting
out loud about stuff GUBU has done to me.
Having conversations with him out loud.... this does not help my PMA.
Sometimes I don't even realize I'm doing it!
I'm so used to being alone that I caught myself doing it in the supermarket. No wonder people were staring.
(Nope. No Bluetooth. Just nutty!)
I felt hurt thinking he'd taken some online date woman out for a fancy dinner, now I think it was just another freebie for his staff. I try not to read too much into that.
I mostly feel angry now, sort of indignant, at the way he has treated me and how I did nothing to deserve it. I was not a perfect wife, but there is no way I am responsible for the choices he made and his treatment of me.
I never had a choice. I still don't have a choice. He will do whatever he wants to me, and I will just have to handle it.
That's reality. It stinks, but there is no avoiding it.
If he wants to divorce me, he will. I will live the rest of my life thinking he's the World's Biggest A**crack, but it will be his loss in the end.
But sometimes I get my hackles up about what a dope he's been.
However, in true DBing fashion, I keep this to myself.
I am doing a really good job with my STFU and, to a lesser degree, my CTHD.
I am eating better, sleeping better, taking better care of myself. Making the most of every opportunity that comes my way, trying to ignore him as much as possible.
One perk of this situation is that it is forcing me to "work what my momma gave me" and I'm learning more girly skills that I never had before.
I now know how to curl my hair, put on that push-up eyeliner, and do "natural" makeup that looks like I just woke up that way...
And I can really rock those "skinny jeans" these days!
I'm getting myself some nice cowboy boots because:
1. I loved them when I was a little girl (I was all about cowboys and riding western) and
2. I think they would be appropriate for continued a**kicking, which is definitely my plan!
Keep Calm and Carry On, DBers!---(G)GGG
Oh yeah, almost forgot some other little things:
1. I also get middle-of-the-night texts and emails from H.
He told me that his pattern is to fall asleep (pass out, I suspect) fairly early, then wake up at 1-3 AM, then toss and turn until he gets up around six. He says he never sleeps well anymore. (Not even in his nice little quiet, peaceful guest room? Hmmm....)
No doubt the alcohol plays into this, and whatever conscience he has left!
2. He also hardly eats anything while he's here, just chips, salsa, beer... it's not healthy.
I have decided not to say anything. If I make him something to eat, he will usually eat it.
However---
He has lost the bloated belly, and this eating pattern is more like his old self.
We always joked that I was the one eating all the food, he'd survive on virtually nothing.
Eat nothing all day but two hard boiled eggs and a salad. I kid you not.
He's an easy keeper, that one!
---(G)GGG
Here we go again. He just texted me an APOLOGY about the phone call we just had.
(Which wasn't a problem at all, it was enjoyable....Hello???)
He said sorry he wasn't clear his phone was blowing up from work, and the situation with his superior who just quit--as though he had sounded rushed or short with me.
He was 100% clear. Staying at his friends' house Thursday night to pack for staying here four days, then riding his bike Friday morning before coming up here to cover for me being gone.
Crystal clear.
Guess he doesn't remember going on about the Stick Insects?
MLC sieve-brain.
Anyhow.
NOW he says he might stay here Thursday night after all!Why?
Why not?
Why?
Why not?
He loves me...
he loves me not...
He loves me...
he loves me not...
Yes, they are pretty mixed up all right.
This is a step in the right direction. And it allowed me to say:
"Sure, not a problem at all... Don't stress it. Whatever you'd like to do is fine by me..."This is my tactic now.
Just be calm, soothing, sweet, and accommodating.
UNLESS he crossed my boundaries and then I give him a Truth Dart/Bomb/Nuke, when appropriate.
Seems to be working well!
---(G)GGG
GGG,
Did H come over tonight??
Nope.
He did text me last night with his various commitments, so I know he does have something to do for work that means he'd have to stay later than usual.
He's back to giving me his "reasons" and whereabouts again. For now.
He'll be here in the morning so I can leave for the weekend.
I still see small improvements, like hanging around more, saying he misses things about being here... just little things.
Like just about everyone else on here, when you start seeing these small things, there is a desire to want to move things ahead...and I have to stop myself from expecting anything but a continued ride on the roller coaster.
I notice the ride is slowing down; it's not nearly as bumpy, but it still is nowhere near being over.
I find now that things are calmer, I am angrier. I haven't allowed myself to feel this very much lately, but now that he's getting friendlier--I find it irritating.
As if it should all just be hunky-dory, that he has no clue of the devastation he has caused, and that he may never.
It's still very much about him and whatever he wants.
I think it's pretty clear by now that he is extremely sensitive to perceived criticism or rejection, and his comments about wanting to "talk" I believe are his way of trying to get me to say something that will give him a direction.
I am not inclined to do this for many reasons.
I think the biggest one is that if he is is unwilling/unable to make the smallest step towards me because he is afraid, then me taking it for him just perpetuates his problem.
As they say around here, "he's got to put on his Big Boy Pants" and take a bit of a risk, either way. Maybe I'll be upset, maybe not. Maybe I'll say something he doesn't like.
That's life. If I have survived these last two years, he can certainly man up enough to say what's on his mind without Mommy promising him everything will be okay if he says how he feels.
I think he is well aware of how I feel and what I need. And what I don't want, and will not accept from him.
No need to rehash it. Either he can offer to make changes of his own free will to see where it leads us, or he won't.
I am not asking him to come back, or accepting certain behaviors if he is living under this roof. I think it is reasonable that, as his wife, I would not be comfortable with him engaging in certain activities, and therefore, I will not allow them in my house.
(As long as it is my house.)
He knows what those things are. He knows what he needs to do. I will not repeat myself.
I will not ask him to do anything. He will only resent me later, and also try to hide things from me if he never wanted to quit doing them in the first place.
The days for that sort of thing are OVER.
As for him wanting to know "my plans", (all nice and laid out for him so he can avoid putting anything on the line himself), that also will not happen.
I don't yet know what my plans are, other than it will not look very much as he has described in his fantasy version of what our respective lives will look like after divorce.
I only know that once I'm gone, I'll be gone, and he will be out of my life.
He still has no clue as to the reality of the situation, or as to my personal heartache and concerns about the future.
He thinks I can just move out, take a "bunch of dogs", go live with my mother, find an apartment somewhere that allows me to have eight dogs, while I work full-time... and that he'll still have all his money, this house, time and money to complete the remodel, eventually finding his "soul-mate", since he'll have plenty of free time to date all the woman who seem so interested in him in the virtual world, while he retires comfortably at age 65 with his IRA/401K intact.
Riiiiggghhhttt. La-La Land!
At least, this is what he used to think and I have no indication that he has realized that this will not be the case.
So I find myself more and more annoyed with him, the more I see the man I knew.
I'm not sure why that is, but it seems to be the case.
Today, I pretty much hate his guts for what he's done.
Tomorrow is a different day, and thank goodness I will be away from here, away from him, doing what I love with people who actually care about me.
It also drives one point home every time:
That he is the ONLY person in my life who would prefer to avoid me on every level, and he has for some time.
As he has said: 'I just have never LIKED spending time with you".
Nice.
And what am I going to be losing, exactly?
Not a whole heck of a lot.
At least that's how I feel about it today.
GoatGoal needs GUBU like.... like.... arrrgh.
Loss for words.
THAT NEVER HAPPENS!
--(G)GGG
Nods yup, except gubu talks to you.
Mine just whines. Then demands unreasonable stuff, which he know damn well I've said wont happen.
Sigh what are we losing exactly, I'm feeling these days like not much.
So now your a makeup diva we can be twins! Lol
<<< consider that a kiss and a whistle. My make up tackle box and hot rollers a bargain at $30 is worth a small mint.
So I don't have to wear the same thing twice in a few weeks.
Hi Ggrass!
Yes, he i
s talking to me, but it's 99% talking AT me--- about himself.
He has yet to ask if I need anything, how I'm doing, how he can help me.
And, occasionally, he demands something, "I WANT..." and if he doesn't get it, he gets really pissy.
For example, this was an exchange when he was suddenly ready to leave here one day, when he said he'd stay until much later Guess he was mad about something, who knows?I get a text from H: "I want to come up and see the dogs"
Me: 'When"
Him: "Now"
Me: "Can you give me 30 minutes? I am not feeling well, just got out of the tub"
Him: "No. Go in the bedroom and I won't bother you."
Me:. "Sorry, that won't work for me."
Him: "Fine. Bye!"
Me: "Next time maybe ask me ahead of time so we don't have this problem"
Him:
No response.This last one was a few weeks ago, but I know it's percolating right there under the surface. It will just take the right stimulus for him to go off on some snark-fest.
As for the make-up stuff---RIGHT ON, SISTER!I am perfecting the art of hair, makeup, and heels.
And you can bet that GUBU notices. Not that he'll say anything. But... oh yeah. He sees it.
He saw my note to myself to use my "Victoria's Secret" coupon because it was on my "To-Do" list on the fridge. Along with "Finally get those cowboy boots!"
The V.S. is---Just so I feel sexy FOR ME.
But he's probably wondering....!
And, I have taken to wearing only sexy lingerie.
(As fas as he knows, anyway.)
And leaving it to dry in the shower for his perusal, after hand-washing it lovingly in the sink.
(Passive-Aggressive much?
)
The man does love his fancy thongs...
Maybe it's not playing fair, but hey, I saw "The Breakup" movie too!
I haven't gone for the "Telly Savales" yet, though.
He also gets a nice dose of my perfume when he's here, even if he doesn't realize it.
It's on the shower curtain, his towel, his sheets, the toilet paper. The DOGS!!!
Take THAT, you GUBU, you!!---(G)GGG
Hey All,
SSDD...
Not much to report.
Things are about the same; I'm out GALing like mad, keeping up with my "plan which 'seems' to be 'working'".
Operative words here being *seems* and *working*.
It appears that GUBU is more like H these days and I see continued improvement in small things.
He was here this weekend while I was away at an event and he clearly enjoyed his stay. Talked a bit about how much he enjoyed being here, missed the dogs, etc. Sent some cute texts after he left.
For my part, I checked in with him every night I was gone, we spoke on the phone a few times, I gave him all my info of where I was staying, who to contact in an emergency, etc.
For the first time in many months he showed some concern for my safety. And shared that with me.
So, he made it clear that he missed the wood stove, being with the animals...
Nothing about missing me, but no surprise there.
But it's new for him to talk about missing things in this way, even if I'm not included. He seems to be extending his visits here even if I'm around, although he has yet to actually want to spend time with me for its own sake.
He seems a bit---homesick?
(Well, at least if I'm not a part of the picture.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other little things; I noticed him doing things on a to-do list I had on the fridge, nothing I'd asked him for, but things he knows I need help with. I was surprised about that. He's slowly making his way down that list.
He is also texting more and keeping in touch; calling and laughing on the phone. (!) Texting "goodnight" again, saying more emotional things about the dogs, missing the doggy kisses... I know it's not much but it's still a change in the right direction.
The other thing is that he cleaned up and did the dishes before he left after the weekend.
In the past if I was traveling, he'd clean the house and especially the bathroom, so I could soak in a hot tub. (Fibromyagia).
This time he cleaned the tub... and apologized for not having "time" to "clean more'.
Well, that's not exactly true because he had nowhere to be, but still.
This was the first time in almost a year he did anything remotely like he used to for me. I saw that as a plus and thanked him very much, so he KNOWS that I appreciated it.
"Baby steps"... I keep reminding myself.
I validate like crazy, keep calm, keep happy, keep busy. Show him that I'm freaking wonderful and everything he could ever want. And that I'm not angry or pitiful, desperate or waiting forever.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find what works best is to be friendly, giving back that 80% of warmth, making sure I don't shut him down if he reaches out, but still keep some mystery, don't pursue, no temp checks, no R talk... I give him a little bit of hope to hang onto.
I am kind, I am transparent, I am compassionate. I think he needs that.
But I am also independent and get things done on my own. I am making myself happy and doing things which are meaningful to me. Surrounding myself with positive people and great experiences.
Again, he is not crossing my boundaries. If he were, he'd hear about it.
He either gets no reaction or he gets a firm line in the sand. Lately he has not tried any of the snarky stuff with me.
I think it's been over two weeks now since I got the snarky texts/MIA/Arriving unannounced.
Two weeks or close to it. That's a record.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have refrained from snooping so I don't know if he's still active on his dating site or anything else. I wouldn't be surprised either way.
I believe that the way he is, even if he's not actively pursuing a relationship, he is probably mining the sites for the endorphin kick. A substitute or adjunct activity to porn. Nothing would surprise me.
"Look at ALL THESE WOMEN who are interested in me/could be mine/might be my soul-mate!"
Opening your inbox to a bunch of messages from women who might be "The ONE" has got to have it's own chemical rewards.
Which I'm pretty sure is something he is still seeking. I believe he is still depressed, but seems better in terms of humor, ability to think about people other than himself (if in very small ways), laughing and smiling more.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen the bank statement and he is still drinking. A LOT.He has stated many times that he is awake most of the night. This is a concern, but not my problem.
I have my own sleep to contend with and he's an adult. He can figure it out.
--------------------------------------------------------------
He still alternates between giving me detailed descriptions of what he's doing vs. being very vague and standoffish. Again, no surprise.
We do the "two steps forward and one step back" dance pretty consistently.
But his steps back don't seem as far or as negative as they have been.
I find myself being very pragmatic, sort of "experienced" at this point, with accepting the reality, painful as it is, and trying to remind myself when it's really my ego giving me fits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am still doing okay on my own and am still enjoying my life for the most part.
I stay busy, try to keep my thinking straight, work on my own goals, take care of my own side of the street to the best of my ability.
At this point, I believe I have "fixed" all of the "complaints" he ever had about me, even the ones I thought had no merit.
He never really voiced any, except for minor stuff, but I took it to heart and am working those out.
He really has nothing to pin on me whatsoever at this point.
Anything he could point to previously as my fault for "the reason we can never be together" is no longer on the table.
The wind has gone out of his sails at least as far as I'm concerned.
If he needs to be away from me at this point, it's not because of anything I've failed at, not that I ever thought so.
I think they are all changes I can live with, and ones I think benefit me as an individual, so I am staying true to my values.
-------------------------------------------------------
I do have one confession to make:The other night I had a very dark moment...a short one... but a deep one.
I was in "his" basement bathroom which clearly is something he created for himself. One single man's bathroom. One towel hook... If a room could say "Goat Gal--KEEP OUT!!!!" this one would.
I realized it was never meant to be the bathroom that "we" would use while we were remodeling the main bath upstairs.
Nope. It is something he did FOR HIMSELF so he could move into the basement at some point.
(That didn't work out so far, but I know that was his goal.)
That thought just really pushed my buttons.
It was this time of year last year when he was really awful to me, trying to protect OW from the fallout of his adultery while throwing me under the bus. I realized a bunch of things, how he abused her too, how he led her on and used her. And things he said to me...
It was the worst time of my life. So many memories came flooding back.
And I just lost it for a moment. I cried and cursed his name--then I kicked a big old hole in the wall.Yup. I did.
Now, I didn't kick very hard, but he did such a crappy job of drywalling the space that my foot just went into a deep recess....
Well, it was ugly.
Fortunately, I did NOT engage in a text war, or write all sorts of nasties in permanent marker... many things I wanted to do, like call him and tell him what a selfish a**hat he was, among other things.
I notice that as things improve, this sort of thing happens more. I think because I open my heart a little and the pain floods in.
When I keep it closed, I am more successful at keeping my emotions under control.
I guess I need to keep working on this!
I thought about leaving the damage rather than trying to hide the incident, to allow him to see that I am really human, really grieving, really having a tough time too, since I have been accused of having "too much fun".
And although I believe he DOES need to hear some of that, I didn't want it to be ammunition against me. "That Goat Gal really hasn't changed at all. She's still so angry with me, and she'll never get over this."I am fortunately to have drywall skills on par with his, so I patched that hole and he shouldn't be the wiser.
That is, if I can get the paint to dry without odor before he gets in there for a shower!
I learned my lesson though.
If I am going to kick the wall, I should do it it in one of the countless places where a hole in the sheetrock will not even be noticed! This place is a pit.
And that's the latest from the Triple GGG Ranch, Y'all.
---(G)GGG
GGG,
Your reports are so interesting to read! You can write, girl!
As you may know, oftentimes the MLCer will connect through their children, pets, family...etc FIRST before finally connecting with the LBS. Also they do visit and stay at the home for a bit longer over time. So it seems to me that your H is slowly working his way backwards toward you. You are not the Devil Incarnate in his mind. Sure, the spews will come from time to time. Which brings me to a wonderful comment by a poster recently:
In my first marriage I would get a barrage of vicious emails. I never replied. If there was an email that was civil I would reply quickly. That sends the message that spewing is not rewarded but civil discourse is.
Hmmmm...might want to think about how you react to GUBU's nasty texts. Then pick out those that are fairly civil. I know from reading your posts, GGG, that you strive to do this most of the time.
This is a good reminder when dealing with the MCLer.
Kicking a whole in the wall...well, I thought it would have happened a lot sooner than this!
Hey, you might want to think about calling the
Property Brothers to renovate your dinky place. It also can't hurt that you can oogle two HOT men while they're working on it!!
Hahaha, Wonka!
Yeah. The Property Brothers would work. Definitely!
Thanks for reminding me about the reconnection. I do see that happening, if I'm reading it right.
There is the college girlfriend, spending more time with co-workers (I think) and although this bugs me a bit (borderline inappropriate, buying friendship, not really getting a life of his own, or perhaps going out to meet other women), it's at least something he's doing that's social.
He does seems to connect more with the animals, and is talking about missing them more. That is one huge thing we have in common, and no matter how deep he is in his tunnel, he knows that I'm pretty much going to be the only who would be willing to share this reality with him.
I don't believe there is a woman in the world who would move into this mess. Not one who wasn't totally nuts, anyway!
He is talking more about other people we've known. That's also rather new.
"So and so asked about you." (I wonder, what does he tell them?)
Both my parents have gone through severe depressions, and one of the first signs I see that they're coming out is they start thinking about people other than themselves.
While in depressed mode, they don't care about ANYBODY.
I mean A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y!
And if they do notice other people, it's to comment on how annoying/uncaring/awful/backstabbing/users they are.
I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.
GUBU has made his share of disparaging remarks about lovely people we've known, even the woman who continues to house him for free.
Just like my mother. Who loves her friends when she's in her right mind, but has not a nice word to say about any of them when she's depressed.
Thanks for checking in. It's always great to hear from the Chocolate Factory!
--(G)GGG
Did someone say Property Brothers???!??!!!!! Mmmmmmmmmhhhmmmmm.
GGG, I love reading your threads!
I'm glad things are progressing at a snails pace...it's still progress!! You are the master of GAL. I need lessons. Keep going, GGG!!! You're amazing.
(((((Hugs))))).
Thanks, Shining.
It's a process, that's for sure.
GALing comes naturally, lucky for me.
My problem has always been too many interests, so now I have the time to devote to them!
Well, if criticizing other is the hallmark of depression, I'm not sure I've ever known MY mother not to be.
But I'm really really glad to hear the positive changes in GUBU, and I always enjoy your updates.
Hey, Maybell,
It's not the criticism, it's more the inability to have an interest in, and see the good in others. (The criticism is a symptom of something else "not so pretty" though, doncha think?)
Depressed people--are completely self-absorbed, full of anxiety and gloom. Low energy/complacent, or high-energy/agitated. Or a combination.
In my mother's case, she went through a phase where she put me down at every opportunity. Treated me like absolute dirt. I'd drive 12 hours to see her and as soon as I'd walk in the door she'd say:
"Go in my office and get started on the taxes." Seriously. No "Hello". "How was your drive?" She didn't CARE at all.
I was just something to serve her.
And it added fuel to the fire when she (deliberately) talked about her massage therapist--how "wonderful" she was, how "understanding". "She is SO different from YOU, Goat Gal."
Clearly pitting us against each other.
Made me cry every day.
But I knew IT WASN'T HER. I knew she WASN'T IN HER RIGHT MIND.
My mother could never treat me like this unless she was ill.
I feel the same about GUBU.
I even tried to point this out to him in the beginning, but you all know how THAT went.
When depressed, Mom also couldn't stand if others were happy or upbeat in her presence. (I think like GUBU's dislike of my happy GALing.)
She would suddenly "have a weak spell" or otherwise sabotage any fun others might be having in her vicinity. Ringing that darn bell saying she needed a glass of juice or something. It was like clockwork if someone started laughing anywhere near her.
This is complete reversal from my mother in her non-depressed mind.
She--who tells me she loves me, appreciates all I do for her, talks about me proudly to her friends. (Who she again sees as wonderful and states how grateful she is to have these people in her life.)
The woman who inspired and supported me throughout my life. She is replaced by this nasty, selfish, manipulative person who wants the whole world to go down the tubes with her. I can't stand that woman.
But my mom...My mom is an incredible lady.
My father suffered several major episodes during his life and completely withdrew into himself. He also tried to self-medicate with alcohol, sugar, and an on-and-off affair. IT turned pretty ugly.
My mother was a dynamo her entire life, very accomplished, very bright, upbeat, but she suffered a massive depression begin about eight years ago in her 80s and it has recurred many times since.
I still don't know the trigger, but call it a MLC at 80. She had a fall, suffered a painful back injury, and somehow got it in her head that she wasnt going to be able to continue to be Super-Woman as she had been.
It was like the mortality/aging wake-up call. For someone who had never had a headache and who treated breast cancer like having a tooth pulled, it was quite a shock. She just didn't want to get old, didn't want to slow down, and here she was, not having a choice about it. And she always felt she could control her life.
Guess this is what happens when your coping mechanisms fail you.
It has not been easy since I am her primary care-giver, doing everything long-distance, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I have to let go of some of the guilt now, in my sitch I can't be as available as I was before, I just don't have much to give. But I do the best I can.
Anyhow... enough about me. I'm going to catch up on all my DBing pals and see what you're up to.
--(G)GGG
GG - it is hard when we see a big change in a parent. My dad died from/with Alzheimers which overwhelmed him.
I am coming to the view, working with a very gifted therapist on a project, that much depression comes from our most basic fears (these will be different for each person) I can also see that mindfulness, the practice of living in the moment, is a powerful tool for the depressed person to self help with.
Why did your mother need to be super woman in the first place? What was she compensating for, or to put it another way, what fear was driving her? Self acceptance is a huge need throughout life, but especially as we get older and cannot do all of the things we used to do. Add in superwoman and yes, you have a recipe for what looks like a crisis.
Our whole life is really a process of becoming - some call it a journey, and it is never too late to learn more about ourselves
Beatrice,I believe my mother, deep down, suffered from feelings of inadequacy. She didn't really open up to people easily, seemed to feel a lot of pressure to perform and do everything perfectly. Which she passed along to us...
Funny, because she was stunning, talented, extremely bright, and very capable. Everyone adored her. She had EVERYTHING. Yet, somehow she had to project this "larger than life" persona. And when she couldn't be "top dog" anymore, well, things just seemed to fall apart for her.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Update on my Sitch:More positive forward motion! I am extending myself to H in small ways as he continues to warm up. He definitely seems to respond positively to this as I suspected before. I am treating him as a friend, with no pursuit, but letting him know that I like him and I'm not avoiding him, maybe I'm even looking forward to seeing him.
Sometimes. A little.
Today I sent him a text "
How's it going at work?" (Something I haven't done in a LONG time. I have not initiated much at all except as needed for the last several months. Also---in DBing fashion, you know "no questions", right? I took that literally--no surprise. Plus I didn't want to seem like I was "pursuing". Silly me not realizing that at some point I had to give him an opening now and then.)
So he immediately writes back: "Ok.............."That many ellipses
Like
"Ok. I am suspicious.....why are you asking?"(Of course, I am probably
not the only one on here who can read this into a ellipsis overuse!
)
So, I followed with trivial stuff "Cold up here, going to gather more firewood"At which point he responded with similar about needing more wood, putting a heat light on for the chickens this weekend...
I have wondered about too much contact, but then I recall how he always used to like talking on the phone and staying in touch. And with the OW, well, we're talking ten or more calls a day and thousands of texts per month. So I "guess" he "likes it" on some level. Why not give him the attention he craves if I stop short of pursuit?
Just letting him know--on occasion--that I'm thinking about him.
Anyhow---Then he continued with other stuff about what my schedule was going to be (we had that conversation twice in person, once by note, once by text, and twice by email... swiss cheese brain or excuse to continue convo? Just kinda funny.)
I said I'd let him know... eventually he said he'd found one of the emails so
"Hahahah, no worries..."He let me know when he would be leaving work today, then texted again when he got close to the house. Stocked everything for me and hung around a LOT longer than usual. He's up to an hour now. That's another record. For a while there he was here maybe 15 minutes.
I actually went out to see him three times, not one of which he was in sight.
So when he left I texted him "Hey, tried a few times to catch you outside, guess you were in stealth mode :--) "
He IMMEDIATELY called me, laughing!He said "Yeah, I'm known to go "invisible" at times" and what followed was a very upbeat and friendly convo about the weekend, how he could help me with my recording session on Saturday, the weather, the animals, watching out for deer on the road, etc.
AND, he called where he is staying "Cindy's place" (Not her real name), instead of "the house".
We talked for a few minutes, finally he said he WOULD be up tomorrow (Friday) which has lately been the night he goes MIA (with co-workers and hits the bars? Not sure.) He had said "not sure about Friday". I have to stop myself from wondering what he is trying to put together. That seems to happen after 10 PM when it does happen, but whatever. It's out of my hands. All I can do is provide the more appealing option.
So he will be here tomorrow night, not stay over, maybe stay over Sat if I'm going to be "late" (*sigh*).
Oh well. At least he wants to be here.
I definitely notice a lighter tone in his voice, he seems so much more relaxed and upbeat around me. He laughs more, there is a smile in his voice. This is HUGE.
But--I warn myself not to read anything into it. For all I know he's met his "soul mate" on his dating site and is over the moon....
Although, if he is, he sure isn't all that available. Seems he's here most of his "free" time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And those "Property Brothers", as cute as they might be, ain't got nuthin' on THIS GOAT GAL!I patched and painted that wall, ran the fans to remove the odor before he arrived.
Even
trying to find the odor of paint/place where I patched the hole, I had trouble detecting anything at all.
I literally patted myself on the back over that one!
And I learned my lesson. Fixing that damage was stressing me out.
No more kicking/punching walls!I think it was the right move rather than letting him see what I'd done, honest as that seemed to be.
Right now is not the time to show him that I can still be volatile under certain conditions.
(Loneliness, bad memories, missing husband, pending divorce, bachelor bathroom, and too many chores. And
maybe too much Merlot.
)
And so, Divorce Busters. I can say once again, that even if I don't save my marriage, I am still saving myself.
I am still learning about myself and handling my emotions. I am still dealing with H more effectively and working my feminine wiles.
He may not fall madly in love with me, but he sure as heck is gonna like me. A LOT. He already does.
I guess that's a start.
KEEP ON BUSTIN' !!!!
---(G)GGG
GGG,
I've learned personally from first hand experience and I try to stress to the newbies here as well on this one VERY important fact:
Never, never ask the WAS how's work or about work. They feel that their space has been intruded on...even if our intentions were good and sincere. I hit that wall with Ms. Wonka. So I've never said a peep or inquired about her work in over 10 years now. Now there's some new developments...wanna know? Gotta check out my thread.
Anyway...humor is almost a great ice breaker! That's how I've gotten through Ms. Wonka's Gibraltar-sized glacier. Last year...I think...I sent Ms. Wonka a humorous papers that contained the following colored picture:
A small glass plate with an over-easy egg on it with a yellow chick standing beside it facing the plate.
Above the picture was the caption in bold: "For Pete's Sake!"
That got a LOL text from Ms. Wonka.
Wonka,
I will be sure to check out your updates.
I've seen that chick pic, cracks me up too!
Although in my case, I have to say contacting H at work is a 180 for me.
I had stopped being interested in his job right about the time he was using it as a "cover" for OW.
And, to be honest, I've never been big on talking on the phone, texting, or making small talk in general.
I always disliked that "And how was YOUR day" question.
But H (yes, he's back to "H" at the moment) likes to stay in touch.
And it seemed to go well after his initial reservation.
Actually, I didn't ask "how's work" I asked "How is your day going?"
Same thing, I know, but he's always seemed more comfortable with me at a remote location. You know, likes me best when I'm not around. (Sad, but seems true, I guess lately.)
So although I will heed your advice, I will see how it plays out.
I think he'd feel more "intruded upon" were I to call/text to check in with him in the evenings, when he's 1. Drinking 2. On line doing who knows what.
THAT I'm pretty sure he would get tired of quickly for a whole bunch of reasons.
But yeah. He likes to tell me how great he is at his job. So I let him.
It's really the only thing he feels confident about at this point, something he's proud of.
But I consider myself warned to proceed with caution!
---(G)GGG
Meh.Recording session went great yesterday and I got lots of good feedback. I forgot that I was good at this stuff!
Funny thing about being in this sitch. There has been so much heartache and pain that I find I am more fearless about things which used to create anxiety for me.
I almost feel like nothing can hurt as much as these past few years have, so stretching my musical boundaries and tapping into something deep down with ABSOLUTELY NO FEAR allowed me to do things that formerly would have had me a bit twisted up.
I found my guitar solos, ability to mesh with the other players, and my vocal improvising/scatting so effortless. I was soooooo RELAXED. It's really the only way it works well. There was no thinking about it--it was just jazz--jazz happening. I have never been so calm and centered and tapping into something deeper in my soul. Interestingly, the other players saw this and commented on it.
I really surprised myself.
Frankly, I never knew I had it in me to go there.
Not with new people, an unknown situation, live recording session, under the gun, as it were.
So--yay! More sessions to come, maybe a Christmas album. -------------------------------------------------------------------
And as for H, He was here during the days Sat/Sun---and yes, he's still "H" more or less.
Although he was here to help me load up my equipment on Saturday morning for the recording session, there was definitely an air of irritation coming from him.
Later on I wondered if perhaps he was mad at the fact that I was doing really great things with this time we're separated, while he is still sort of stuck. He resents that.
I know he does. Particularly while he's here doing manual labor.
Well, I do plenty of manual labor too---and I can often spend five+ days alone without seeing or speaking to anybody. So I refuse to feel guilty for being gone for the day doing something that might turn out to be pivotal for my future.
He was a musician when we met, but for him, it just fell by the wayside as so many other things did for him.
He has expressed resentment over my playing again for the past few years. Although he always said how much he "supported" me, the fact is, it annoyed him. He didn't want to spend the time with me, but he didn't want me putting time into that either. Unless it meant I was out of the house. (Hahaha. And now I know why THAT was, porn and OW.)
I used to believe he was proud of me. Now he just seems threatened and maybe even JEALOUS.
That's his problem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few weeks ago I mentioned maybe using his old amp and he texted me that "Sorry, my instruments are going to be moving over here" to where he's staying. As if he was going to start playing again
"too!!!!" Not to be outdone, I guess.
So far, that hasn't happened, and I'll be surprised if it does. I think (mind reading, I know) that he really just didn't want me using his stuff to have any more "fun".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He did a few things around here this weekend, but essentially did them without any real plan; ran some electric that is all over the map...it's like he wants to get something done, and he does, but he doesn't take into consideration how to do it so it doesn't cause problems down the road.
He doesn't seem able to think things through very well.
So yeah, the light works, but there are problems stemming from the work he did. Historically, I couldn't mention any of the problems because he saw it as me critiquing his work; which it wasn't.
Heck. If there is a
safety issue that needed to be addressed, and I mentioned it--as nice as I could be--he got defensive and nasty.
He has been that way for years now.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night when I got back from recording, he left me a nice note, had taken care of the critters--but made sure he was gone before I got home. Missed me by about 10 minutes. Like he didn't want to see me.
Last night, he never asked how it went, he just sent me a weird text schedule of sorts, plus some other curt texts about how he's going to be "coming late and leaving early"... no explanation, and nothing to do with anything on topic.
This is the classic button-pushing stuff he does when he gets ticked off. It's slight, I know, but it's like he is trying in subtle ways to "get back" at me for my "infractions". (Like not curling up in a ball and dying, not just moving away when he wanted me gone, I guess.)
Anyhow, I thanked him again for helping me out so I could take the day, how I appreciated his support. Trying to see the best in him. Hoping he'll see it as a victory for him, too.
That he helped me achieve something important to me.
He used to be like that. He used to be so proud of me.
Now I wonder if it wasn't more
"Look at MY WIFE!" Like it wasn't that he was happy for me, just that it made him "better" to have a wife who could do what I could.
That's a difficult thought, but I will not avoid mulling the painful things over anymore. Like the reality of a future together. How realistic is that? Who we are now, separately and together... would that even work? Would this reality be sustainable? I'm thinking not....
Ugh. Again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today he was here only briefly, which was fine. I had so much trouble sleeping last night, was up and down, and in between it was one nightmare after another where he was telling me that
"we will be divorcing, I need to get over it, get the ball rolling... that he needs to start dating other women..." Ugh. I woke up every hour or so with my heart pounding.
I don't know what brought this on since it hasn't happened in a while. Subconsciously it appears I am still pretty freaked out.
But today was beautiful.
We chatted a bit, I validated the work he did, didn't ask anything about the bizarre schedule texts. Just kept it light while projecting my cutest "sleepy morning self" in the sleepwear he always liked. Offered him coffee and breakfast, which he declined. I couldn't have been sweeter, but again, nothing I wouldn't do for anyone who was here working.
(Except minus perhaps the sexy P.J.s
)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So about the schedule texts again: This is his most common passive-aggressing
"Gotcha!" for which I am grateful. It could be so much worse; it's hardly worth mentioning.
When he gets ticked off, he refuses to tell me why he won't be here, is deliberately vague, shows up unannounced (he did today) and *seems* to want me to think he's out tearing up the universe.
Which I'm pretty certain he is not.
He gave me the reason for not being here one weeknight, but not for Sunday, a day he has ALWAYS been here-- with maybe one or two exceptions when he was really trying to push my buttons.
I *think* that absence on Sunday is because of graduation... a sore topic, since last year at that event I met OW and he took off his ring, among other things.
Funny that he wouldn't mention it as the "reason" he won't be here, if that's what it is. (Timing is right.) I wonder if its because he knows bringing it up will be hurtful to me. Or he wants to avoid my emotions over it. Not that I have reacted negatively to anything for months. Personally, I'd rather he just told me, than let me stew in my own juices about what he "might" be up to.
As if not mentioning it makes any difference.
Like I'm not thinking about it quite a bit this time of year.
But I'm looking on the bright side, that maybe he's not mentioning it because he doesn't want to hurt me.
Problem is, not mentioning something doesn't solve anything.
It's just both of us pretending there isn't a pink elephant carcass stinking up the living room. ----------------------------------------------------------------
He has not asked a single question about how my session went. As usual, he talked about HIMSELF and we talked about HIM and his stuff.
*sigh*
I really don't expect more, but it sure would be nice.
Tonight I have a dance to go to with friends, and, if I might be so bold to mention, about five of the guys who have been actively pursuing me.
(All of whom I have put on ice, so to speak, and told them I'm not dating. One of whom has a private plane, among other things.)
But I'm sure there will be people who might actually be interested to hear what I did yesterday. Too bad H isn't one of them.
Which says everything about him, and nothing about me.
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So it goes.
Just kinda blah today. Stuffy head, allergies bad dreams, and little sleep, makes Goat Gal a dull Divorce Buster.
---(G)GGG
Hey GGG, I’m always looking for your updates on your sitch. I wish I could hear your performances. I play piano, not is a professional way, just for me.
I’ve noticed the same thing about myself, that I became more fearless about things. I also feel that there is nothing that can be any worse than this sitch.
Good for you, discovering your true self and tapping into your full potential.
My H used to be proud of me too. And then I started noticing that he was intimidated and didn’t like talking about my achievements anymore. This where I think his self-esteem went low.
It definitely looks like your H is jealous of your GAL activities. He is also trying to get a reaction of you by being deliberately vague about his plans. I think you are doing great. Keep it up!
GGG,
You sound like you are enjoying life and living well. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you have many fellas checking you out. You are a catch!!!
Hang in there. Let h walk his path and you keep walking yours.
I really relate to the fearlessness stuff. After losing my H of 26 years, really, nothing else scared me. Learn to play the drums at 53? Why not? If I got up on stage and sucked, so what?? If someone thinks at 58 I'm too old to play in a punk band, so what? If I dated men who might not last, so what? It turned me into a much more daring person and my life is richer for it.
Bright. GB, and kml... thanks for your support and comments.
Fearless? Heck yeah! If this didn't kill me... what's to fear?
Sometimes when I get down thinking about what might happen with my H from here on out I stop myself and think:
What can he possibly do to me that he hasn't done already?
The only thing left is-- Door #3: FINANCIAL DEVASTATION!!! Which could happen.
On the other hand, it could happen even if we R. He could lose his job, insurance, one of us could become gravely ill.
There are no promises either way.
Today I made a chart. It included:1. The Pros of sticking it out
2. The Cons of sticking it out
3. The Pros of leaving/divorcing
4. The Cons of leaving/divorcing.
That was for me.
I made another chart for H with the same quadrant.
Very interestingly,
the Pros for me staying, (seeing the remodel done, living my dream)
and the Cons for me going (maybe won't find another life partner, financial concerns)
were mostly"What If" type things. Fears and worries. Not reality.
My Pros for divorcing and the Cons for staying were all FACTS.That I will no longer live in a disaster zone with all these animals, that H would have to change dramatically for this to work, that our age difference will be more of an issue. etc. He has health issues which will only worsen, he is who he is, he has serious emotional problems, this is a chaotic environment and we will need help to keep the place going in the not-too-distant future.
His chart was the exactly the opposite: His cons for staying were based on his fears and problems. "She hates me."
His pros for divorcing were also based on "What ifs", like "What if she never forgives me? "What if we can't resolve things?"
And his pros for staying/cons for divorcing were the FACTS.
That there will be financial destruction, that the animals will have to go, that he won't be able to keep things up by himself, he'll never finish the remodel alone. That he will lose me as a friend and partner. That he will have to sell the house at a loss. That he will lose everything.
Of course, I'm not in his head, but I just put down any and all things he could possibly think. Including that "I'll find somebody better", "I won't have these 'problems' with the 'right' person", "So many other women want me..."
But again, those are "What ifs."
Weird, huh?
Anyhow, it showed me very clearly that the things I fear have already happened.
In many ways, I will be better off divorced if he is not willing to put in the effort, and he is unable to make some pretty dramatic changes for the long term. I do not want a marriage under current conditions. There is not much to recommend it.
What I valued most in H was his integrity and his desire to protect me.
His loyalty. His fidelity.
All those things are now GONE.
He would have to work to get them back. I'm not sure he will ever want to do that, and even if he does, how long could he sustain changes like these? Learning new coping skills, not keeping secrets, being vulnerable, committing to me and to a R.
Can he do it?
I don't know. He doesn't think so, he has said many times.
Blah, blah... I have a cold and I feel stupid today.
Just thinking out loud.
---(G)GGG
Wow - I love that way of looking at things, very insightful.
And can I just say one thing?
That sometimes reading all the awful stories here on this board makes the Halloween Horror-fest pale in comparison.
This forum can be its own horror show. Truly.
The way people are behaving towards those they are supposed to love and care for. Sometimes it's almost too much, reading what you all are going through. It breaks my heart to read what others are enduring here.
And how they often get no support from friends/family/counselors other than the advice to "move on" and "start over."
Were that it was so simple---as simple as our WAS/MLC want to believe it is.
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"OW is pregnant, OP is a bi-polar drug addict, con-man, barely legal teen gold-digger, abusive bastard, crazy HWW," ...
Formerly caring spouse is destroying the family, hurting the kids, causing mayhem all over town.
Embarrassing themselves and their loved ones.
Burning bridges with nothing but a Bic Lighter, busy running from one to the next.
And hardly a glance back at the people who used to be important to them.
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LBS are here trying SO HARD to make some sense of things when there is often no sense to be found.
They are lost, trying to figure out how to salvage something, protect their children, their investments, how to handle the emotional fallout, how to act in public. What to say or not say, what boundaries to set and how to enforce them.
Worrying about every little thing said and done, or left unsaid and undone.
"Was THAT the final thing that put the nail in my marriage coffin? Was it really my fault after all, because I said the wrong thing?"
I know everyone says the WAS/MLC are suffering too, and I don't doubt that they are.
It's just that their suffering is largely due to their own actions, whereas the majority of the LBS just have to deal with whatever is flung their way.
(No, we all agree we're not perfect. But not being perfect doesn't mean we deserve to be treated so callously and cast aside so coldly. Or worse yet, with venom.)
And the LBS must also deal with it with dignity, grace, compassion, and a clear head.
They have to use reason when their spouse can or will not.
They have to figure out how to co-parent, manage the house, get the kids ready for school.
Explain things as needed.
Microwave meals for one.
Again.
Go out and GAL when they feel like curling up in a ball and dissolving in tears. Try and put on a happy face around said spouse so they don't get the idea that we're actually in a terrible place.
Wouldn't want that. They might feel guilty and not want to be around us.
Not that they really want to be around us anyway.
Facebook faux pas, broken hearts, shattered egos, friends and family members ostracized, jobs lost, mental breakdowns unfolding, and countless dreams destroyed.
It's like the Lifetime Movie Network set permanently on "TRAGIC CIRCUMSTANCES."
Yet another tear-jerker.... it's endless.
Sometimes, honestly, that's why I take breaks. I have so much of my own pain, and the compassion I feel for all of you means it hurts me to read your stories. It's often just too much.
I admire the vets who continue to plug away on here giving support and advice. I can't believe they're not suffering from major burnout. I suppose the desire to give back and help others outweighs the emotional drain.
They have my respect for that.
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YET----
These boards are also a safe place where we can find the support and understanding which is so hard to come by in the real world.
Even my two therapists were not as helpful as you all have been. I got the "Why do you want to cobble this together?" and "He sounds like he's made up his mind about you, time to accept it." speeches from both.
Which is why I haven't gone recently.
And why I've stopped sharing with friends. I get the same from them.
Because no one knows what it's like or what they would do until they've been in your shoes.
And while I wouldn't wish it on anyone, it sure is a great teacher. I said I'd never stay if he cheated... and look at me now.
We are all learning and getting better from this experience and from each other. This board has been a literal lifesaver.
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As much as I'm trying to follow DBing to the letter, and keeping my PMA and GAL and all that going, I have very dark times too.
This is not the only challenge in my life. My plate was full before all this started.
I try to keep my chin up, try to focus on the positive.
Because: Divorce Busting Is Not For Sissies.
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And so, to all the NON-SISSIES here who are fighting the good fight, let me say how grateful I am to all of you for sharing your personal struggles, good and bad, and supporting the others who come here in need of some understanding.
Because every now and then, we celebrate a small victory, whether it is a marriage starting to move towards R, a new baby or job, a new (HOT!) date, or it's a DBer moving forward with their lives and doing a damn fine job of it.
It's watching people grow stronger, get better, and find hope in places where they least expect it that makes coming here and reading a bittersweet experience.
It's quite something, really, this little band of strangers.
Love you guys. <3
----(G)GGG
PS: My use of the word "sissies" was in no way a slight against gay/slight/effeminate/athletically-challenged people. "Wimps" could be used as a substitute. But "sissies" just sounded better.
Or "cowards". Because there are no cowards here.
It's like the Lifetime Movie Network set permanently on "TRAGIC CIRCUMSTANCES."
Lolol - so true!
GGG(G), that was a really lovely post. I wish I'd written. Applause, lady.
Wow, you said it all. You can write, GGG! Thank you for such a great post.
I do feel like a sissie at times, I don't feel brave and worst of all at times I really hate being in my head!
Last weeks pitty party a prime example, why me why can't I behave as pathetic as every one else kicks dirt [censored] thumb. Why can't I be considered first, why aren't my feelings and stuff first for another human of any sort!
I'm over it now and nurse who works with me said it can be a side effect of my contraception! Oh goodie and other issue caused by h! Today tho back to normal cracking jokes and laughing genuinely with customers.
heyhi-
just blippeed in to take a look - sorry you're pensive & blue today-
your lists and co mments - "bingo". you sure touched on it all. klike you- i'd have croaked (probably) without this forum and the peole who have understood and held my hand - without judgement - with knowledge and sympathy - thru this. i'm feeling drastically radical today- at this minute i do not even want to know this man or see his face.
it is sad isn't it? it COULD destroy your faith (in love, men, sanity, truwe love, people, marriage, love, the one we used to love and cherish above all else (even ourselves sometimes) and what they have be come...
The "they are suffering too". "Frankly my dear - i don't give a damn." Even Rhett could be driven away - in the end. turns out (sadly) you probably can really KILL TRUE LOVE - if you try hard enough. (they are, aren't they?)
my h is like Scarlett - all about him. I'd say, honestly, he is not suffering all that much.
you hit nail on head with the " w3e stop talking, stop from expressing ourselves, can't sleep , can't eat - can't be ourselves - are treated like a person they cant stand to be around (????) why? so they can treat us cold & bad for another bazillion years. It's odd that it is soooo ALL ABOUT THEM. IF MY h EVER IN A million years felt the pain i have last five years or so - no joke - he'd crumble and die or would have run away very first moment he found out. being up to "the challenge" or "fighting" for this R, this life, me- i do not think it enters his brain.
I overestimated him for ever - (perhaps) i'm not feeling the pity and sympathy for his plight. i think it's honestly just selfishness & greed for sensation.
You also said, correctly, they are suffering as a result of their own (stupid & selfish actions/feelings) nothing to do with us other than a handy scape goat.
i am feeling "hard" today- h is with ow and i'm here by self. he wants to be oblivious and he is. nothing in the world is his doing, responsibility, or problem. - he thinks my life and heart are just a joke - honestly- it's a game he plays. .he honestly thinks this is something like "boyish charm" and so on.
he does not care or care to see the devastation he wreaks.
i am pretty tired of being non-existent.
i have alot of bad days- i wonder like mad, like you, what's real and what's too beyond belief to expect or wait for.
will they fight? can they "come back" - i do not think for one moment my h wonders if i'll ever love him or , so on. i f you think that your h wonders that, then i'd say that's why you're dbing. i have no reason to think i have that here.
i hope you feel better - i'm just sayin "yeah - you aint just whistlin dixie" man.
xxoo