No new updates really, things are going along as they have been.
I'm detaching more, was feeling a lil sad about whole situation...
SO...a while back my H got a PO box paid up front for 6 months, which should be close to expiring now. When I saw the receipt and confronted him he said he was getting ready at that time to move but then decided not to but the po box was paid up for 6months. He implied that once that was done he would not renew the PO box. I dont know if he has or not, but we have 1 bill that goes to his PO Box and I had to ask him each month for that bill. Well last month I ask and he did not give it to me, so I did not pay it, it was due on 8/26 and I always pay bills on time (THANK GOD WE have the money to do so) anyway,,this morning I call company auto line and there now may be a late fee...so I sent H a text
texted that bill was due on 26th, may be a late fee, I did remind him this bill goes to his PObox and if he does not give me the bill to see it I can not pay it,,told him to call company see what the amount due was and if there is a late fee.
I'm not calling back when company opens and I'm not going to ask for the late fee to be removed if there is one, H can do that.
I hate this bill is late, I hate that H may still have the PO Box and or renewed it. Now I wonder what else is going to that PO BOX? H does get some mail at home, but not much....
AND I dont feel like talking to H today!!! TIRED of this mess!!!
Many of them get PO Boxes. It's their way of separating the mail/bills and not telling you what they've ordered and/or receiving in the mail. As for the bill that is late, you've called him and advised him of the bill, now it's time for him to man up and take care of it. You can't pay something if you don't have the bill.
Hi 2B,
I know how hard it is when the MLC is still at home. I'm sorry things haven't improved much. I have noticed something here on the boards...it seems that almost all of the LBS's (both M/F) are (we're) the responsible ones in most areas of the M. We are the ones who payed the bills, took most care of the kids, made sure things got done, planned vacations, etc. Even if we we're the ones making the money, we were the ones making sure the bills got paid on time. Very seldom do you see a MLCer who was in charge of these things. I think it is part of the type of person who goes into MLC. I think they were always being taken care of to a certain extent while the LBS was the "care giver". Just an observation. My W wouldn't ever do these type of things but man if I made a mistake and something didn't get paid she would always be on my case! It's like they are afraid of consequences but don't want the responsibility of actually doing something. Easier to blame their S. Just an observation.
Hang in there 2B. It could be that the PO box is gone and H just didn't contact the company to change the address. The next time you actually get a bill (if ever) make sure to change the address on the bill. H is like a child right now (a destructive one with way too much power) and can't be trusted to do the simple things that any adult should do. I hope things start to get better for you.
Thanks Job & Matt
This bill is addressed to my H with our home address, this bill is redirected to PO Box, H never changed the address on the bill itself, this bill is auto redirected I guess? Once he gives me the bill I can see it is still addressed to our home.
The rest of our home bills are electronic and come to my email.
Yes I'm the one who "handles" everything when it comes to bills and house hold stuff. Oh well...another day in lala land.
Was that a flying cow I just saw....LMAO
I was thinking 2B,
If you really want to know if the PO box isn't valid anymore...offer to fill out a "Change of address" form from the Post office for the PO box that way ANYTHING addressed to the PO box will come to the house. If he freaks out about that then one of 2 things, 1) He still has the PO box in his name or 2) There were things coming to that PO box that he doesn't want "redirected" to the house. I think the reaction will tell much. If he is nonchalant about it (whether he says yes or no), than there's nothing to it except he wanted to feel some "separation" from you (something MLCers love. My W would find all kind of ways to try and "feel" separate from me ,like getting separate phone plans even though it cost a lot more). If he gets all upset than there is more to it and he was getting mail he didn't want you to know about.
Not that it matters except for the fact that the bill has to get paid. What he got if he got anything at all makes zero difference. Kind of like snooping to see if there is OP, never a good idea because all knowing can do is make things worse. Hang in there 2B and let us know how things are going!
Hey Matt
H got the bill amount due from company..did not mention my hint at his pobox. I'm not going to offer to fill out a form for him..if something he is hiding going to pobox...let it..it will come out eventually.
I will not ask or check on this bill again its in his name and not coming to our house so he needs to give it to me or it can get cut off and be way late. It is not a major bill...so I wish I had let it get cut off...
He was excited about his boots...
When he called I ignored 3 calls and waited until he called back 1 hour later..just did not feel like hearing his voice...
I have not checked in for a while.... So mind giving me an update about you?
Are you still doing the counseling with your priest/pastor/deacon/rabbi/etc?
Have you given anymore thought to going to MC?
I'm glad he liked his boots. I hope that every time he sees and wears them that he'll think of you.
MC not an option . I have no idea when if ever I can bring that up to H. I have not had any M or R talk with H.
Still in counseling with pastor it has slowed down...feel like a stand still quiet time need a break...
Praying daily.
Working on myself daily.
Gal as often as I can
90% of the time I'm happy. My messed up M no longer brings me down...
I'm trying hard to stand ...see tiny positive changes in my H...
Job
He cannot stop talking about the boots....
MC not an option . I have no idea when if ever I can bring that up to H. I have not had any M or R talk with H.
Still in counseling with pastor it has slowed down...feel like a stand still quiet time need a break...
I think I might have said this before: MC just for you! H will notice (without you saying: "hey I am going to see my marriage counselor").
Seems soon would be a good start, as it sounds pastor talks may have become stalled.
Posting break
I sometimes feel like reading others posts and or posting myself helps, BUT sometimes its a constant reminder of my messed up M.
Is it wise to take a posting break...
BUT then again, being able to vent when needed helps me to redirect my thoughts and or just get it out my system.
It's like the more I think about no longer standing, the more I dont feel the need to post.
There is "peace" in our home, but Im missing a R with my H. And I feel like he does not realize what he is about to lose...I feel like Im wasting my time, Im M and my H is my roommate.
If H no longers wants to be M, then let me be FREE!!!!
I guess I do need to post,,,went from talking about a break to posting about ready to leave,,,or maybe cause Im ready to leave I dont need to post?
Each day Im stronger, days pass with me not being sad or upset or even bothered about my M. Days pass when I don't even think about it or my H, unless H calls or its his day off...when he is not here, its almost like out of sight out of mind.
Today at our sons game, when he finally arrived at the game, it was like here is his dad not my H...there was no feelings from me...
The other day H hinted at ML with his body language,,,I ignored it...not sure what that means...
So true what is said around here, the LBS sometimes end the R, or is not there when the MLC wants to return.
I'm praying my feelings are not leaving for my H, but then I pray that I get over so I can move on.
If you feel the need to take a posting break, by all means do so. Sometimes we have to do it in order to recharge our batteries and see what the real world has to offer.
What you are feeling is very normal and yes, the further move along your journey, the stronger you will get. You are detaching more and more because you aren't reacting to his every world or action.
Take each day as it comes.
2bh, I had the same bd month as you so feel close, I just want a white knight to sweep me off my feet and away from the drama!
I want the crapola to end. It's still feels like limbo to me, while he feels his new life is starting and great.
I.had to leave house this am..first got out od bed..when H woke he came down to ask if I got up due to his snoring I said no...i aske him why he was soo late ro son game..he said he was getting ready.for work..
i started to shake I wanted to explode..it was not his comment it was everything..so I showered and went to get coffee and read td jakes book..then ran a cuple errands and tried to stop to view an apartment...yes i wanted to have a place selected..feel like selling house and leaving this M.
got home and was in a much better place was taking to H about college game..he told me he watched at his oldest after work...i said son and I watched it here...he walked away then turn back and said why did u say that..I said cause we did we watched it here at home..
yes i felt like he should have come home after work and watched with us and was mad that he was late to s14 game...
his reponse to well we were here watching was
"When u left to go read this am..s14 and I were here when u left"
WTH..so confusing...
TODAY
I feel like I have to go as dark as possible while still in same house with H.
The things I want to talk about...scare me. I want to ask him if he wants me or this M or a R with me. I want to tell him that there are things I want from a man that he is not giving me. I want to tell him that I forgive him, but I dont trust him. I want to tell him that I'm thinking about selling the house and getting an apartment for s and I. I want to ask him to make a decision, to either work on this M or leave! Love me as a man loves his woman or FREE me!
When is it ok for the LBS to have a conversation with the MLC or WAS, when is the right time?
I feel like my H will continue as we are now,,,,for only GOD knows how long. As long as I don't rock the boat, ask any questions, ask for anything from him for me.. smile and be nice be happy.
I know I should be glad that my MLC has not left the house, and it does not seem like there is a OW in the picture right now, and he is not outright "mean" to me, so I get that it could be ALOT worse and I have been appreciative that H is still helping with our son and paying bills and doing "family" things when he is not working,,,but I want MORE from him. Is that too much to ask,,,?
2B, it sounds like H was trying to bait you. He picked up on your subtle hint that you and s were at home without him watching the game. H is trying to throw it back into your face for not being with him and s yesterday morning.
I don't really have any advice for you regarding what to do. I, personally, would not talk to him about the R or M. You could try going darker and see how he responds. Do more for you. Pretend he's a roommate and you've got your own life and schedule at this time.
I never got the chance to do this, H moved out the day he BDed me.
@Atsbaby, I felt like he was tick for tack in his response. I wonder why in the H ell does he care where I go!!!
I do try to live with him as my room mate:(
Hi 2B,
I'm so sorry. I know how you feel as I have been there myself. I don't want to tell you what to do but I will say this. I tried for a year after B-day to be the best H I could. I tried every DB tacit, everything I knew or read or was advised to do and nothing worked. My W made up her mind on B-day that she was leaving and she was going to ignore ANYTHING that was good, that made her "feel" happy or that leaving wasn't the right thing to do. On the flip side she blew totally out of proportion anything that I did she didn't like, never listened to anyone who said leaving was a bad idea and took the slightest agreement about any small thing from someone that said it was a good idea. She NEVER really gave our M any chance.
My W didn't have OP except her father, the only person who wanted her to leave me. He is now more of a husband to her than a father. It probably would have been better if there had been someone else. It would have shown her that it wasn't me but who knows. In my case I know in my heart that there was nothing I could do to stop her. She made up her mind on B-day and nothing was going to change it. I and her "bad M" was the cause of pain and that was that. The kids, the animals, her family saying she was making a mistake none of that mattered. They just don't understand that she must do this. She even told herself she would be a "better" mother because she left! She still believes this.
Sometimes there just is nothing you can do. Sometimes nothing will "make" them see the truth. There comes a point when enough is enough. Only you can decide when that is and if you would be better off just letting him go. Just be certain that you have really reached that point before you act 2B. It's a LONG journey for them and we are along for the ride without buying a ticket. Only YOU can decide when or if it's time to get off the ride.
Matt is absolutely correct, i.e., only you can decide when you've had enough.
Trying going dark for a while and see what happens. If you aren't sure about wanting to have a discussion w/your h, then sit quietly for a while and allow the answers to come. We have a motto around here that says "when in doubt, do nothing".
You will know when you've had enough.
Matt
I feel each day I get closer to making that choice to no longer stand!
My H is not "mean" he is not "doing" anything other then ignoring his marriage to me and ignoring me as a woman...which is not good, but I'm trying to say... he is coming home after work, home on his day off, stepping up more then in the past to help with our son day to day stuff, he initiates the family day on his day off, he calls me daily, we can and do still laugh and talk about anything. He cooks, cleans (always has. We have sex, He does not complain when I say I need extra money for son or bills (well not like he use to) He still buys me gifts for bday, christmas, anniversay. I mean he is better in alot of ways but has totally shut down on being my H, being my man.
It seems like we are maybe working on our friendship which maybe got lost along the way...
It's just not enough for me, and I knwo when I was the WAS it was not enough for him,,,but I dont know how much longer I can continue...
If Matt drops the word sometimes from his statement that " Sometimes nothing will "make" them see the truth" He will be correct. Nothing you do or say will make them see the truth. They have to get to the point where they are willing or even want to see the truth.
You have to be true to yourself. Be who you are or work on who you want to be. Don't mold yourself to who you think they want you to be. If its not right with you don't do it and even speak up about it. By doing that you are letting go. Its up to them if they like who you are or who you become. Its up to them if they want to try. Its up to you if you want them back. By focusing on yourself you will be doing both yourself and them a favor.
@Life
So now if he is late again to son game, should I say something?
If I want to go on a date with him, should I invite him?
The speak up about it,,,is where I need to be careful with my words.
Should I have just told H, that it hurt my feelings that he got off work and went to watch football game with other oldest instead of coming home to watch with us. And that I hurt during s14 game as s14 constantly scanned the crowd looking for his dad?
One of the things Im working on to be a better me is to NOT comment on everything little thing,,to pick my battles, to know when to speak and when to hold my tongue" In my sessions with pastor, this is something that has damaged my R in the past. The words I speak can be like loaded weapons.
This is something that I work on for all my R's with son, mom, friends and coworkers.
Maybe just use the I statements to let him know how you feel. Something like, "I was really bummed that I didn't get to enjoy watching the game with you." Make sure it's about you and not him. Then walk away.
As for your S14, talk with him "I noticed you were looking for dad while trying to play your game. Have you told dad how you feel about him not being there at the start?" Don't get into the middle of their issues. You will seem like you are mothering your H. Guide your S to openly talk to his dad about the way he is being treated.
As for the date thing, maybe just mention you were interested in doing x,y,z and wanted to see if he would like to tag along. It's an open invitation, but remember not to have expectations. Then go do x,y,z.
Good luck with what ever you decide to try!
Atsbaby's posting is spot on. By using the "I" word, you aren't pointing fingers at what he is or isn't doing. You are letting him know how you feel about things.
I do agree that your S14 is old enough to have talks w/his father about how he's feeling and being treated. Encourage this bonding and then step back a little and see how it goes. You don't want to come off looking like your h's "mother" in all of this.
Stating that you are interested in doing something and inviting him is a good way to test the waters. It gives him the option of whether or not to go w/you. If he doesn't want to go along, plan to go on your own.
Good luck and keep your expectations low.
2B,
You know your H and sitch best, so take this for just another perspective. I personally like having multiple options, and choosing what I think works best for me. I have a different technique that has worked well in my sitch, and I have not had anger spewed at me since.
If you truly believe your H is in MLC, then talking about your feelings will be as effective as nailing jello to a tree. (I think Wonka described that somewhere...sorry if wrong credit). That one stuck in my head.
Trying to deal with MLCers the same way you would in a normal relationship will probably not have the desired outcome.
You can certainly tell H your feelings were hurt. But still keeping expectations at zero, right? That means once you say it, let go of needing his reaction to be what you want.
MLCers don't really care about your feelings. It's all about them. They can't cope with your feelings, because their own are too much to handle.
My H wanted to be away from me, and disassociate everything from me. Hence, the S. So I removed as much "me" as I could.
I stopped using "I" statements. This is not a traditional approach, and I do not recommend that everyone should do this. But the mere mention of "I feel" would make the hairs stand up on the back of my H neck.... Not at all what I was going for
.
I started restructuring my sentences to take the feeling out. State facts. "Something happened the other night. When you went to watch the game at oldest's house, it was fun here, but would have been better with you here, too. It's great that you spent time with oldest, though. He probably enjoyed seeing you very much." Then leave it.
Probably not the best example I can do, but hopefully you get where I'm going. The point is, you want him to know your preference. This way takes some of the pressure off by removing emotion ("hurt feelings"=negativity and guilt inducing), removing you (his perceived cause of unhappiness), and removing an expectation of a response (pressure that pushes him away). He can hear the facts, and do with the info what he wants.
I found with my h, using the word "you", which is a big no-no in traditional counseling, when in a non-accusatory or non-blaming, got through to him. Because he's all about him.
Also, I found that beginning a conversation by validating, or empathizing something to test the waters, opened him up to hear other things.
Again, this is just my experience. For what it's worth.
.
TODAY is also "family day" I never know if it will be Tuesday or Monday. Not in the mood today, so H has me meet S14 and him out to eat directly after I got off. We had a gift card for the place and the balance I ask him to pay,,,he says "you are always in my pocket,,love spending my money" WTF I LOL and said Yes I love it. We are not rich, and H gives me 1/2 bills and 1/2 of things for our son...no idea where else I get to spend allllll his money. This is a delusion he has had for years.
AND he made a big deal out of letting me know that he and s14 will be watching 1st monday night game at home 2night.
I need a LARGE drink, and some sleeping pills!!
And then he promised s14 brownies,,,which now they both expect me to make...I told H get box mix and ice cream from store, they can spend time making that together!!!
Shining,,,I will think about this...I know H does not like when I say "you" or "I" right now...too much pressure.
If I bring up anything it will be that I'm not sure how much longer I will continue on like this...but that is a R talk which I need to avoid. I dont even really want him to know anything he does bothers me at all.
I will work on helping s14 speak to his dad about how he feels.
OMgoodness
I had a dream I ask H if he still wanted to be married, H said no, I said then lets get a D. I then told s14 who said he was ok and already knew there was problems,,,then came back later and was VERY upset and wanted to talk and wanted his dad to stay...
as I woke up I was trying to comfort s14 and was trying to ask H to rethink D and to stay.
NOW my dreams,,,wow I rarely dream this is really draining me and I've been so very tired lately, when I wake in morning I'm tired as soon as I get home from work I'm tired, this mental stress I need to let it GO, stop thinking about it for a while (if I can) I was doing so good, not sure why this is consuming my thoughts again....and now when H seems to be taking tiny teeny baby steps poking his head a lil out of the tunnel,,why now are my emotions trying to take back over?
TODAY is also "family day" I never know if it will be Tuesday or Monday. Not in the mood today, so H has me meet S14 and him out to eat directly after I got off. We had a gift card for the place and the balance I ask him to pay,,,he says "you are always in my pocket,,love spending my money" WTF I LOL and said Yes I love it. We are not rich, and H gives me 1/2 bills and 1/2 of things for our son...no idea where else I get to spend allllll his money. This is a delusion he has had for years.
I don't recall your background (career, job, etc). But is he the breadwinner? I remember you mentioning he works pretty hard (long days, weekends, etc). If so, have you acknowledged appreciation for what he provides? Is this a point of contention between you two?
AND he made a big deal out of letting me know that he and s14 will be watching 1st monday night game at home 2night.
What type of response did you give? Because you sound a little put off by this.
And then he promised s14 brownies,,,which now they both expect me to make...I told H get box mix and ice cream from store, they can spend time making that together!!!
I think you played this reasonably well.
Wounded
Yes I work FT, we split all our home bills and 95% of everything for our son. I have no idea why he says anything like I take his money. I often tell him I apprciate him helping to provide for us. Yes he works alot of long hours and he does not have a easy job.
When he made a point to tell me he was watching game with s14, I told him I know s14 will love that.
And the brownies came out great:) and I had nothing to do but eat them:)
I kind of get the vibe your running on fumes (and ... well... that you kind of flat out said it).
So I want to inspire you, I want your battries charged!
I want you to think of a GAL that is selfish and ONLY about you (I hope that doesn't come off as bad as it sounds), something you always wanted to do (I want it to have NOTHING to do with S or H)....
What would that be?
* and don't give me a little small time idea like join a book club... I want to hear something like build a college!
Well,,,too tired to build a college.
I have a spa date plan in a couple of weeks with some girlfriends.
I will be having my 2nd annual all ladies get away in Nov (in planning stages now) over night stay away from home. 1st one last year due to drama and needed to get away had sooooo much fun making it a yearly thing.
I have friends I meet up with monthly, then some who we get mmore often.
Something else,,,I will have to think about it a GAL that is VERY selfish...hmmm need to think on that, something BIG...
I could very well plan another all ladies vacation. Had one in early 2013 before BD.
Well,,,too tired to build a college.
I have a spa date plan in a couple of weeks with some girlfriends.
I will be having my 2nd annual all ladies get away in Nov (in planning stages now) over night stay away from home. 1st one last year due to drama and needed to get away had sooooo much fun making it a yearly thing.
I have friends I meet up with monthly, then some who we get mmore often.
Something else,,,I will have to think about it a GAL that is VERY selfish...hmmm need to think on that, something BIG...
I could very well plan another all ladies vacation. Had one in early 2013 before BD.
Bigger!
But hear me out. The outings you have (and are planning) are good. But in my experience, those are just little "quick hits"... much like a junkie getting a fix. After the weekend/trip/party is over.... there ain't much left.
Can you try to think of something for just YOU, that would have some long term value?
*Example (and I don't expect you to do this)... But take the motorcycle safety course, and learn how to ride a motorcycle: msf-usa.org
or take a basic flying lesson at your local airport?
Or take the Coast Guard boating safety course?
Think things of that nature.
May be a different type of BIG GAL- But for me I want, I need to lose 70lb. Yes 70lbs, over 1/2 has been gained in last year since BD.
And learn how to salsa! Yes I want to take salsa classes. I have a mensics tear in my knee that needs surgery but I should lose as much weight as I can before getting the surgery (actually might not need surgery after I lose the weight & build up the muscle in my legs)
So losing the weight will be BIG for me, I need it for my self and it will make the salsa classes soo much easier on my knees.
I 2nd the big GAL activity .... ironically I did take the Motorcycle course ... just for me, took all weekend. Then about a month later I pulled the trigger and bought the Harley I always wanted to get. Let me tell you ... the first ride I took on a weekend, I was singing songs as loud as I could in my helmet, probably looking like a total fool, but I was happy, not thinking about my sitch, thinking .. Why oh Why did I wait this long?
W still has no clue I have the bike, for now I just do not see any reason to share, no need to fight about it .. I did it for ME .. not to piss her off. I have a friend who hits me up often to go for rides .. shcedule has prohibited that .. but tonight we are riding together to the softball game.
My point ... Doing this one bucket list item made me fell like me again, I was doing my own thing ... was extremely liberating
2B,
I just started dancing lessons on Sunday! It was so much fun. I was talking to one of the ladies who works there and she said there is a guy who will celebrate his 1 year anniversary of dancing next weekend. He lost over 100 lbs!
Go do this for yourself. You want to salsa, do it for you! You want to lose weight, learn to salsa, do it for you! Get the idea
So I went out to contact a couple of places where they have salsa classes....they are far from my house AND times conflict with me picking up my s14 from practice, I take turns with another parent, week by week
So I need to work something out with that to see if we can just do certain days, that way I can take my salsa classes. I ask if I needed a partner and they said not right away, and when I do there is always people who need to partner up.
So once I talk to parent and if we can re do the pick up days, Im going to get all signed up and pay in advance that way I don't back out! I have wanted to do this for years!!! Excited!
So once I talk to parent and if we can re do the pick up days, Im going to get all signed up and pay in advance that way I don't back out! I have wanted to do this for years!!! Excited!
Good for you!!
What really bugs me is the question I want to know the answer to...
Why my H will not leave the H, not file for D? I know it could be worse if he leaves the house.
But I really want to know in his mind what his reasons are for staying?
H has told me its for S14 and that he does not want me to struggle, mentally or emotionally or financially. Said its a hard time for S14 starting HS and being a teenager and H thinks it will be better he stay here with s14 to guide him along.
Does he not realize the mental and emotional struggle that I'm dealing with now?
I have no idea where my H is in his MLC or what ever he is going thru...
Wish i did not care!
You'll never know what your adult teenager is thinking because he doesn't know from one minute to the next. Right now, he's comfortable living under the same roof w/you. You aren't pressuring him to do anything in the way of making decisions. Yes, it's a mental and emotional struggle and quite frankly, he is off in another world and his empathy chip is broken. Therefore, he's only worried about himself.
He truly doesn't want to move out and get a divorce and he's using his son as the reason for staying. He's quite content to stay there. Some mlcers just want the space and time to explore the world and still live at home. That's why it's important to develop your own interests/hobbies and live your life the best you can. He's a roommate and you are still "expecting" more from him.
You are looking for the old h to be responsible and have rational discussions. Not happening for a while. He's still on a mission to conquer the world his way and you are one of the lucky ones that he's not all over the place, acting out and being h@ll bent on the nasty train.
Learn to accept him for who he is today. Expectations very low or even set at zero and try not to figure him out because he will change course in two seconds because of the emotional train that he is on.
Keep the focus on you.
I feel a lil like H is taking advantage of me. Never really apologized for A. What if this is NOT a MLC, what if H is just done and waiting on me to end it. I know he does not want to come off as the "bad" guy the one who left his family.
AND this is not the 1st time he had an A, he also had one in 05 when he was living overseas. He blamed that on the fact that when he left we were in a bad place (we were) but I was here with our S and a teenage step son, and I did not have an A. At least that one he apologized for.
The things he said last year about not wanting to be a H anymore, and that we could never be happy in a R,,,and I just have a feeling that he will continue like this until I break and end it all.
It just boils down to Im getting tired of it all.
I read others post and I know it could be much worse. H is not mean, is being responsible, we can still laugh and talk about stuff. He does go cold especially after we have sex or have a really good day he will pull back.
We have sex, but that is not enough for me.
It drives me crazy that when Im GAL he wants to know everything Im doing and sometimes gives me attitude about me out and about living life without him. BUT belive me he does not want to do anything with me.... Sometimes I just want to scream LEAVE me the F alone!!!
Oh ,,,this morning when I left I kissed H on the check (as he slept) and told him I love you,,,wish you felt the same about me. I think he heard me cause he opened his eyes.
So I'm thinking about this...
Leaving my wedding ring out for H with a note
Please put my ring with yours (where ever it is) these rings are meant to be together. Maybe one day we will both wear them again with love and pride..... and maybe not.
Also thinking about adding this poem I just read on another post
What do you think?
Here is the poem
Thanks to LifeTwists
The Boxes In The Hall
In every Room of our time together there is a box,
Of memories we shared,
Now is the time to pack away,
With Sadness and with Care.
The first is a simple smile,
When ever I thought of you,
Neatly folded into four,
It's the best that I could do.
Next are all the memories,
Of the times when we were two,
Wrapped with love one by one,
Sealed with tears as glue.
And then there are the butterflies,
I had when you were near,
Now in a cage of sadness,
And locked up with a tear.
Next are the times we kissed,
Each one wrapped with a sigh,
Placed next to a rolled up list,
Of all the times I've asked my self why.
Now to pack are the pieces of my heart,
Gathered in a pile,
Each one wrapped up tenderly,
And placed next to a distant smile.
Finally all the shattered wishes,
Placed in softly so no more can break,
Covering them over trying not to cry,
So they would not all ache.
Lastly walking round each room,
Closing each and every curtain,
Shutting each and every door,
Leaving behind each and ever pain.
Gathering up the memories we shared,
Making sure I've got them all,
Packing them softly because I cared,
Leaving them in the boxes in the hall.
Have you ever asked him why he needs to know your every move away from the home? It sounds to me like he's jealous of you and wants you to be as miserable as he is, i.e., staying at home and not out enjoying yourself. He also doesn't want to you move forward and leave him behind and yet he isn't willing to participate in anything w/you. The next time he inquires as to what you are doing or where you are going, turn around and ask him why he needs to know. It will throw him off balance and he'll have to back peddle w/a response. Time to throw him some curve balls.
As for an apology, I don't think you are going to get one unless you push the issue. He's swept it under the rug and thinks you have too. At some point, you are going to have to decide when you want to have a talk w/him and find out where he's at for the moment. Now, if you do this, remain calm, keep your voice calm and level, but watch his body language. Also, keep in mind you may not get the answers you are looking for, but you will know if he's still bouncing off the walls and coming up w/irrational stuff.
It's tough having them at home, but at some point, you will know when you've had enough and are ready to do something about it.
Job
I do want to see where he is at...
What are your thoughts on leaving ring with a note ,,(above posts) and or the poem?
I do sense he wants me to be miserable, 1 time when I guess I was too happy around the house he ask me if I had been drinking.. I said no and he said you are acting like it.
Then another day I was very tired and stay in bed longer then normal,,,he had seen a shot glass in the kitchen and said he thought I was sooo tired cause I had been drinking,,I said driking shots,,I drink wine, he said well maybe you had your friend over for shots...I hardly ever have friends over...
What are your thoughts on leaving ring with a note ,,(above posts) and or the poem?
DB'ing would say no on the note/poem.
And further.... the note, down the road... maybe.
But absolutely no chance/no way/no how on the poem. From a guys perspective... it will go over like a bad tie on fathers day (it may get used once out of courtesy.... but then tossed to the side and never though of again).
I do sense he wants me to be miserable
Sounds like your trying to read his mind.
The next time he inquires as to what you are doing or where you are going, turn around and ask him why he needs to know. It will throw him off balance and he'll have to back peddle w/a response. Time to throw him some curve balls.
(experts, please chime in if is is bad advice)
I like job's advice a lot. But this will take TONS of finesse. It cannot be adversarial. It cannot be sarcastic or bitter. It needs to be very light... even coy:
H: Where are you going now?
2B: Well wouldn't you like to know (with a dirty little smile)
H: (assuming a huff and a puff/sigh/etc or a dirty look)
2B: (run over, sit on his lap, or if standing put an "arm hanging" hug on him and quietly in his ear, in a playful voice ask:) actually, why do you need to know?
Hi 2B,
IMO I wouldn't leave the ring and poem. I read the same poem and it brought tears to my eyes. My first thought was how I would love to leave it in one of the boxes that my W is waiting to pick up so she will read it when she unpacks. Then I realized that is just not going to have anything close to the desired effect! The MLCer just isn't able to think rationally. They do not have the same kind of reactions to those types of things that a "normal" person does! Instead of it making them think about the past, the love you shared, etc., all it will do is make them angry. Most likely all it will do is "prove" that you just don't get what HE is going through. That all you care about is YOU and you just don't get what he needs to do for him! There you go again, only thinking of yourself, trying to "guilt" him. He will think why can't you just understand and leave him alone. Of course even if a part of him does feel the emotions that a "normal" person would all that will do is cause him to feel "pressured". You want something he isn't wanting to give right now and he will feel that pressure. It is a type of pursuit and you how they feel about that!
Back soon after B-day, before I found DB, I read a poem about a couple growing old together. It was very emotional, sweet, etc. My W used to talk about us when we were old, how we would still be in love and finish each others sentences, take care of each other, feel each others pain, etc. It was something that was important and meaningful to her "old" self. How she actually looked forward to that time in our lives. So, what did I do? Well, I sent her an email copy of that poem, of course! I just knew it would make her think, that she would remember when she would talk about just this subject. What was her response? Well, she got angry, of course! She was very bugged by it and just deleted it. She even mentioned in a text to her friend that I was trying to guilt her...again!
My W was the same way when she lived at home about my GAL activities. She even told me on B-day that a big part of what she was so unhappy with me about was that I didn't do ENOUGH outside activities without her. She said she wanted me to go out and do the very things I started to do. That I needed more of a separate life from her. But, when I did those things she would get bugged. React with hostility. On one of my first outings she even told me I was "lying" about what I was doing! That she just "knew' that I wasn't telling her the "truth" about something. All I did was go out to a meetup group and have a few beers with a bunch of other men! She wanted me to go out with other people but got upset when I did it. That is normal MLC behavior, 2B. They want you to be as miserable as they are.
I wish it were otherwise, 2B, really I do. I know it's so hard to imagine your h reading that poem, seeing the ring and NOT thinking the type of thoughts you would expect. My W before MLC would have been in tears reading that poem. She is the type that cries at movies! All that changed on B-day and it's going to be a long trip back until she would ever have that reaction again, if ever! Of course, each person is different and you know your sitch better than anyone else. I just don't think it will do anything and actually could hurt things.
I agree, do not leave your ring or the note for him to find. It will get you no where w/him.
Sometimes, you have to turn the questions around in order to make him stop short and think about why he's questioning you. Kids ask lots of questions and do it out of habit. Maybe your h is that way...but you do need to do some 180's w/him and one way is the ask why he's asking and then say, do you need me to pick up or drop something off.
You have to stay cool, calm and collected.
WHAT IF it's not MLC and my H is just being a selfish bastard!
What then,,,dont things need to change up then?
This wedding ring on my finger and H not on his finger for over is year has me totally pissed off and hurt and upset.
Maybe I just need to get use to not having my wedding ring on.
I'm starting to not care how he feels or what he is going thru. Cause I dont see him giving at rats ass about how Im feeling.
I will take the advice and NOT leave the ring or poem.
WHAT IF it's not MLC and my H is just being a selfish bastard!
What then,,,dont things need to change up then?
What if it is a:
MLC
OM
OW
EA
PA
Mental issue
Stroke
Brain tumor
Heart Attack
Or he is just a selfish bastard?
There is no answer we could give to make this any less for you to deal with.
You cannot change or reason with him or his path right now (and for the near term). So you really need to let go, and detach.
This wedding ring on my finger and H not on his finger for over is year has me totally pissed off and hurt and upset.
Maybe I just need to get use to not having my wedding ring on.
Do not wear it because you think it will get him back, do not take it off because you this it will get him back, do not wear it on alternating Tuesdays and every other Thursday because you think it will get him back.
Wear it because YOU want to wear it. Don't wear it because YOU don't want to wear it.
I'm starting to not care how he feels or what he is going thru. Cause I dont see him giving at rats ass about how Im feeling.
You starting to not care about his feelings toward you because you are doing all the right things for YOU right now. Thats a big point of this whole process. A detached person who has thier own life is far more attractive then someone who is always looking for interaction and approval.
I will take the advice and NOT leave the ring or poem.
Good move.
Also, when was the last time you read DR or DB? As well as, the last time you read the 37 rules.
I just re-read the 37 rules yesterday!
Sometimes I feel like wearing the ring and sometimes I don''t.
Need to re-read DR!
I feel the need to take a break from reading posts and just try to ignore H, find more GAL, keep busy focusing on me and my son.
Thanks
I just re-read the 37 rules yesterday!
Atta' girl!
Sometimes I feel like wearing the ring and sometimes I don''t.
So wear it when you feel like it. Try not to put it on a pedestal.
Well, when do you think you will do that.
I feel the need to take a break from reading posts and just try to ignore H, find more GAL, keep busy focusing on me and my son.
Do you feel the reading and posts are a distraction?
Sometimes we have to take a break from the forum to recharge our batteries. You might need to do this if you feel that the forum is a painful distraction for you.
As for the ring, wear it when you want to and if you don't want to do it, then don't. That's a choice you make for YOU, not for him or as a tactic to get him back.
Learn to do things for YOU, not to get his attention or a reaction.
Reading DR will help, I will read it this weekend I have another book that I need to get finish.
Reading the posts...sometimes its just too sad too much all the stuff the H or W are putting LBS's thru. The sadness the pain we are all postings about.
Sometimes I feel like it's only time before my M is over, since most of the posts here end up with the M being over or the LBS bending over backwards to keep someone that is not really there anyway.
I feel like to really be detached I may need to break away from the forum,,but I dont want to leave everyone here who is helping and or who needs encouragment/support...but I think a break I must take.
OH another GAL, I'm working on changing my hair for me, its a way my H does not want it to be, but it's my hair and it's how I want it to be, so 'growing out my hair to wear in my natural state... the way I want to..or at least want to try to see if I like it.
So If I'm gone for a while, everyone take care, GAL, have FUN, smile, be happy!!!
Well...dam...
H came home late from work. I ask him where he been....h replied don't start with 20questions...told me that I do what I want go where i want and he does not ask me...
I said I want to know ..I care.
He told me he was over step son house...son needed to talk.
I let it out...ask him how long he planned to live like this...
H said live like what I work a lot and come home
H said sometime he stays at work cause he does not want to come home.
I told him this is not working for me..I appreciate him paying bills and helping with son...but this is not enough for me. Told him I have needs that he is not giving me.
I told him its not fair for either of us to stay together just for our son.
H reminded me of the years I ignore him ignore our M.
I told him I sorry I apologize and if he cannot forgive me I understand
H said he would have to think about it think about what he wants to do.
I told him he had nothing for me that he wanted to give me...why keep me off on the sides .
H listed off all the stuff I do with my friends...I told him yes I deserve to do things go places have friends..enjoy life ...I told him I don't want to just work and come home.
Couple times he walked away... I did not follow...he came back to continue talk...
I keep calm, no tears, just stated how I felt.
He said he will have to think and that he can hear that I'm tired...he said it like he wants it to be my fault... I told him I know he does not want to come off as a bad guy..does not want to be that guy who left his family.
I told him he will not blame this on me.
Told him no one had to be at fault and that again it does not have to be like this.
Cannot type word for word...but I stayed calm no tears no raised voice..
I don't feel bad or nervous about telling him how I felt.
Whatever he decides....I will be OK but I know I don't want this like it is now.
I told him we don't have to live like this.
I ask him why does he ask me where I'm going...why does he care.
He told me stepsons problem tonight already gave him a headache and he could not talk to me right now.
I'm sorry the discussion came up so soon, but the door opened and you were allow to have some time to say what was on your mind. Now, step back and see what he does. He may have to mull it over for a while and then again, he may want another discussion. Time will tell.
Job
AND It felt good to get it out!
So I assume H would sleep in basement,,,to avoid the possibility of any more conversation...well wrong
H came to bed a couple hours later and initated sex, which I accepted.
Now I know it may have been his attempt at buying more time, may have been his way to "settle me down" I'm no fool I may ignore alot of things but my eyes are wide open.
When I told him I did not want to live like this,,,at 1st he was like "live like what" like ,,,letting me know for now he was very ok with how things are now, so I'm very glad I let him know in a calm no confrontatial way that I was SO NOT OK with things the way they are. Glad I told him there is no one to blame, no bad guy in this,,,but I deserve more, I want more.
I have no plans to bring this up again for a while, I will give him time to think,,,I pray he uses this time wisely.
Was on my knees praying last night between telling him how I felt and him leaving the room. I had a great sense of peace. I know that either way my son and I will be ok
I added to my prayer last night, that if this M ends, help/ allow my son14 to be able to accept it, help me to be able to help my son. BUT Thanks to GOD I know I will be OK.
And I even want my H to be ok, I want him to find peace and happiness with or without me.
I keep calm, no tears........I stayed calm no tears no raised voice....... I don't feel bad or nervous about telling him how I felt......Whatever he decides....I will be OK but I know I don't want this like it is now.
Good you kept emotions in check.
So I assume H would sleep in basement,,,to avoid the possibility of any more conversation...well wrong
H came to bed a couple hours later and initated sex, which I accepted.
Now I know it may have been his attempt at buying more time, may have been his way to "settle me down" I'm no fool I may ignore alot of things but my eyes are wide open.
Was on my knees praying last night between telling him how I felt and him leaving the room. I had a great sense of peace. I know that either way my son and I will be ok
I added to my prayer last night, that if this M ends, help/ allow my son14 to be able to accept it, help me to be able to help my son. BUT Thanks to GOD I know I will be OK.
And I even want my H to be ok, I want him to find peace and happiness with or without me.
This is why I want you inspired (and frankly sticking around) Because "you have come a long, long way baby!" But I don't think your seeing the forrest through the trees.
You could NOT have had this conversation in the calm manner that you did, without the tools you learned here.
You were able to ML.
You (mostly) have him back in bed.
And there are a ton of other, but I don't feel like re-reading every thread.
There are all things I would have cut off my left arm to at least have a shot at (and they are not things I would have "settled on for an eternity").
You ARE making strides, really big ones, and really moving forward..... I just don't think your taking the time to stop
and take stock.
Don't confuse detachment with giving up.
I know this site has helped me alot. The posts, the rules, the responses, it gave me something to do something to focus on.
DB & DR books, the books I read by TD Jakes, praying, support from my SIL.
But finding this site helped me to "stop" sit back and look at it from a different way.
I have no plans on leaving this site, and I hope one day I can help others on here like I'm being helped.
I still want/need a break from reading posts and posting. I thought I was about to start my break then bam, I have a R talk with H and just had to post, I was VERY proud of how in control I was how at peace I was. I could tell H was a lil off he probably expected tears and me chasing him down the stairs, or repeating myself or defending myself when he basically told me I ignored him for years,,but nope none of that. I DB'd and had a R talk at the same time. AND I feel like H really heard me this time!
So I know the support I get here is priceless. Maybe I will not take a long break just maybe a few days.
And you are right...I'm not really allowing myself to see progress in my H, cause I want to keep my expectations LOW, I'm looking at progress in ME.
Off to GAL with son at football game, then some hang out time with friends afterward.
TGIF
Im nervous...I'm looking at my H in a very different not helpful DB way. Like who are you (H) to treat me this way, you don't even deserve me!!
I also feel myself slipping back into my thoughts and feelings when I was the WAS. I wonder if H was right,,,soon I would go back to the old me, the me who did not care about H or his needs/feelings,,the me he said who made him now feel the way he does now. He told me almost year ago that the only reason I was acting like I cared now was because he told me he did not want to be a H, nor in a R,,and was only staying for our s14.
Im detaching,,,but now it might not be a "loving" detachment.
So...if Im WAS again, and looking at H like do I even want to be with you...could he be right? Did I only get all worked up during this year because he told me it was over, he was done, ILYBNILWY?
OMgoodness, I know I love my H, but is it only when he is acting and doing what I want him to do, did I DB because H started to treat me like I treated him on and off for years?
I feel like my soul loves my H, but there are many things I want from a R that he does not give me, even before BD.
Oh boy,,now to start doubting if I want this R at all..this is too much
Other posts after the above were lost....oh well.
So, my H has some bills he is trying to pay and working a lot of over time and now talking about a 2nd job to take care of them.
I hinted that I could help a lil with more of the bills if that would help him out...but as soon as I said it like NO why should I, he still don't know if he wants to be M to me!
I had hinted last year that I had a lil money saved to help out, H always declines my offer of helping him with money.
We have had some issues in the past around money.
BUT I have enough to help him out of a couple of his situations, which I tried to have him avoid in the 1st place...now he is being threaten with wage garnishments.
I feel like I'm hiding my savings account balance. We have always split the bills 50/50 and had our separate accts etc.
I think if we were in a better place I would tell him about my savings account.
On the other hand I feel like I have to have my own safety net, before BD and especially now!!!
What do you guys think?
Hi Happy,
Yes. Protect yourself financially. While your h appears to be responsible with $$$ now, you never know what he future holds.
I'm with Georgia 100%. Oh how I wish I had protected myself financially before my W left! I just never thought she would do what she did..leave me with a negative balance knowing I wasn't going to get a paycheck for the several weeks at best! He is still not done baking for sure. Protect yourself!
Please do not share w/him that you have an account safely tucked away. You may very well need that nest egg down the road. Protect yourself at all costs. Keep an eye on the accounts and follow up to ensure that the bills are paid, especially if you have a mortgage. Some of these nuts tell you that they've paid the bills and take the money and run off spending carelessly and later on down the road, you begin getting late notices.
Do not trust him when it comes to money. I know you want to, but you can't when he's in crisis. He's not fully baked and even then, I would be careful for another year or so.
This is what I thought.
This money has been put aside for an 911 fund and to help with my sons college in 4 years. This is also the money I will need to help support my son and I on my own if my H decides to leave.
Back in 09 I was struggling to pull myself out of debt (debt that my H help put me in) and once I was out of debt I focused on saving more and really making a budget, part of my past debts were that I was not making enough money and 911 situations came up and my H had a couple of lay offs (not his fault) but I had the debts in my name.
My H and I are different with how we handle money and other situations, my H hopes it will work itself out or go away, and I like to tackle things head on...
But at I point I was spending more then I should have...
And my H trying to take care of money issues now is only because of the threats of garnishment,,,otherwise not sure if he would continue to ignore it...so in the past this is where I would have tried to step in and get it all worked out by helping to pay or making arrangements or taking on more of the bills until H was able to resolve it...this has happened before...
He will not learn how to handle money if you continue to bail him out of his jams. Unless the bills are something that you and he both agreed upon and were necessary for living, etc., I would step back and allow him to figure out how to pay them. He's a big boy and I'm sure he'll find a way to do it w/o "mom's" help.
I know you are a fixer and this is tough, but you've got to allow your man/child to grow up on his own.
These are IND bills of my H, one is IRS tax issues that H had long before we were married and continues to not take seriously and continues to avoid paying when he gets new tax years he owes on. I have never filed taxes with him always separate. We had a checking acct together once and when money was taken from it for a bill H owed on, I separated my accts and have keep it that way. The Mtg is in my name only (due to H IRS issues), purchased before we were married.
H wanted us to have joint accts etc and has gotten upset when I refused.
All important home bills are in my name.
It's one less thing we had to argue about by having separate accts, but also H complains about saying I never really wanted things to be together.
I do see he is trying this time, really trying especially since H does not really want to ask me for my help, which is OK with me, more then OK.
Yes, I would be a FOOL to tell him about my savings now!
Side note: H must no longer have his PO BOX, his mail is starting to arrive back at the house.
Not sure if my Salsa dancing classes BIG GAL post was erased,,,but I had planned on this being my BIG GAL, but due to weight issues and knee issues, I have been advised to lose a min of 30lbs before doing any high impact workouts or salsa dancing.
So my BIG GAL will be to lose weight, 70lbs total get this weight off of me, I also feel like my weight problem interfers with how I feel about myself and sometimes how I respond to people and situations, it has been a problem for YEARS and doing my GAL and focus on myself I realize this is not something I'm happy or comfortable with, and something I have been wanting to work on for me for years! Honestly it has stopped some of my GAL's and now again my plans to Salsa. I could provide a list of things my weight has stopped me from participating in, and this has got to stop now!
Just learned this am that one of mine and H favorite performer/singer is in town tonight ONLY, so I'm trying to make arrangements so I can go, ticket, sitter (very late) and outfit, and someone to go with...
So I mention to H that if I can make it happen I will be going,
Me: Did you know about the concert
H; Yes
Me: I wish you would have told me
H; Well I have to work, so,,,
Me: Well I would have had time to buy ticket and make arrangements to go
H: Well its stand up concert and it will be cold tonight
Me: Its actually beautiful outside today and will be lovely tonight
H: Well I'm off to work talk to you later
So in my teenage voice I said to myself H is a "hater" LMAO
Off to beg someone to attend this concert with me.
Why did he not tell me, now I'm working hard on being his friend, his roommate, giving him space & time, kinda hurts a little, even though its only a concert, but at least H could want me to be happy to enjoy myself. Dang H could try to be a better friend to me!!!!
Hey 2B, seems like you, me and Shining are all hitting a point where we are aggravated and angry with our H's. I understand your thought process about do you really want the M or just b/c he said he didn't now you do.
I'm thinking and hoping that this is a normal part of the process that helps us detach. But if it's really is moving towards not really wanting the M, well, we will be ok too. Because we get to decide what we deserve, and it's much better thn we are getting right now!
Hope you got to go to the concert!
@Daring
I'm working on my ups and downs, some days I want to stand and some days I want my H to leave ASAP.
I feel like I'm scared to end the M, not sure if that is what I really want, well I want a better M & H, but if not that then...here comes the ups and downs of my thoughts in relation to if I want to continue standing.
Did not get to go to concert:(
I'm sorry you didn't attend the concert. You "assumed" that your h might want to go since the performer/singer was someone you both liked. In MLC land, we can't "assume" that things will be the same and "expect" them to want to do things w/us. Yes, you were trying to be a friend and get tickets and when he declined, you were disappointed.
BTW, in MLC land, their tastes in everything change. So, this performer may not be someone he's interested in at the moment. Always keep in mind that they become the mirror image, i.e., opposite of the person that they once were.
Expectations have a way of disappointing us at times w/MLCers.
Job
I may have not been clear, but I never expected my H to go to concert with me, nor did I ask him to go.
When I was giving H a heads up, I ask H if he knew the performer was in town...He said Yes
But not at all , did I expect H to go or ask me to go, I was a lil hurt that he did not mention to me about the concert.
H assumed I would want to go with him, which is why he did not tell me about the concert.
He probably assumed again yesterday when I mention concert to him...
Now, I understand. Again, I'm sorry you weren't able to attend. Hopefully this performer will return to the area again very soon and you can attend.
I don't want to talk to H about my plans going forward, which is kinda hard since H is still in home and we have a s14, so I try to be considerate with letting him know my upcoming plans and for the most part H lets me know his plans...
I sometimes feel like I'm telling "my dad" my plans but in a just letting you know kinda way, but I feel like I hold my breath a little waiting on H reaction to my plans.
VERY tired, and s14 is going thru typical teenage stuff but I think because of this crap with H, I'm less patient with s14?
I need to work on how I respond to s14 and his typical kid situations when Im not in the best mood about my own situation with H.
Sometimes it's all too much. I need to spend extra time this weekend in more prayer and reading to relax my mind.
2B that up and down feeling is so me right now. As I lok at the threads of some who have been standing for awhile it helps when they say they had a feeling of wanting to give up every few weeks at one point.
My IC gave me good advice- don't maje any major decisions when I'm tired and frustrated and on low reserve as I mightjyst say F it when it's not really what I want.
The low patience with the kids I understand as well. My D13 is in full blown adolescence. Hasnt started her period yet but I swear she is in perpetual PMS!!
My guilt/shame about everything increases when I'm impatient with the kids. I think I too need to spend some time in prayer- thank you for the reminder.
When I feel like this I should tap my mouth
Convo with H that started about s14 ended up with me telling H to stop blaming me for all the problems in his life, let him know he brought issues with him. Ended with if you are not happy then go be happy, I care about you so much that I want you to be happy and if that is not with me, then its not, but go be happy and stop blaming me for all your problems.
Truth Darts, or at least exactly how I feel!
Hope he heard me loud and clear!
What set me off,,,could have been
H talking about he has no social life cause he works all the time, then mention all the money he has to give me each month to pay our bills.
I said you have no social life is not my fault.
You work all the time cause you want to.
I pay half the bills in our home but don't blame H for that!
I did tell him I appreciate him helping with our bills and our son and I really want him to be happy, and THANKS for everything then gave him a quick hug
I broke
After our talk yesterday H and I had hot sex, but it felt like H was trying to just stake a claim...
anyway today after sons game, I guess I was still in a trance from yesterdays sex and I ask H for a kiss, he looked shocked and a smirk on his face,,so I said oh never mind keep your kisses save them for old age...
On the drive him I was MAD, shaking, H was in the garage heading to work I told him I had something for him,
took off my ring placed it in his hand and went to walk away he threw it in my car seat, I took it and ran to his car and put in it side door, he was just looking at me, I said I'm tried of being a wife with NO husband and came in the house told him to have a great day at work.
I'm still shaking a little, H sat in garage for a while,,not sure if he put ring back in my car or not, but Im done wearing my ring for now, maybe for ever!
I think until if ever H puts his ring back on, I have no need for mine.
The no kiss embrassed, pissed me off and hurt me, I'm like Im good enough to have sex with at home but not kiss in public!!
The no ring on H finger is a louder message to me then ever.
right now F _ _K my H.
So he did put it back in my cup holder in my car.
I put it in my ring box with a note for him on his nightstand
"Please put my ring with your ring...at least they can be together"
My time of standing may soon be over....
Don't know how many DB rules i just broke, other then the shaking my voice was calm there was a smile on my face and I feel stronger!!!
Shoot that quick ,in my hurt I forgot H found out one of his old friends from his hometown died in crash this morning...
Shoot, I was still up in all my feelings, too late now.
Probably was NOT the right time to do what I did...
I broke
After our talk yesterday H and I had hot sex, but it felt like H was trying to just stake a claim...
anyway today after sons game, I guess I was still in a trance from yesterdays sex and I ask H for a kiss, he looked shocked and a smirk on his face,,so I said oh never mind keep your kisses save them for old age...
On the drive him I was MAD, shaking, H was in the garage heading to work I told him I had something for him,
took off my ring placed it in his hand and went to walk away he threw it in my car seat, I took it and ran to his car and put in it side door, he was just looking at me, I said I'm tried of being a wife with NO husband and came in the house told him to have a great day at work.
I'm still shaking a little, H sat in garage for a while,,not sure if he put ring back in my car or not, but Im done wearing my ring for now, maybe for ever!
I think until if ever H puts his ring back on, I have no need for mine.
The no kiss embrassed, pissed me off and hurt me, I'm like Im good enough to have sex with at home but not kiss in public!!
The no ring on H finger is a louder message to me then ever.
right now F _ _K my H.
AND yesterday before H went to work he wanted me to listen to his call into work about working a double said he did not want me to wonder if he was at work,,,
Then he called from work after his reg shift was over and was into his double to let me know he was at work...
And then BAM I pull this all emotional "take my ring" crap today.
I may have really really messed up any progress we were making and onto of him learning about his friends death early this morning,,,
OMGoodness now the emotions are here, now what?
I may have picked the wrong moment to "put my foot down" or "put my foot in my mouth"
HELP
2B,
I'm sorry you're having a tough time of it today. The anger is sure bubbling up. I hurt for you. I think we've all been there, needing to release all that bottled up stuff.
I'm no vet, so please take or leave my observations as you choose. You help me by posting, showing support, and offering perspective. Hopefully I can do the same.
So, he definitely knows how you feel. Probably best to let it sit for a while and pull back?
I don't blame you for getting angry. This really, really sucxks. I can't imagine having my H in the same house and dealing with kid stuff....so please don't be hard on yourself for letting it out. Just don't stay that way too long. I'm told to feel it, and let it wash over me.
.
Very likely, now that the anger was released, it will reset you back to a calmer state. Then, you can go back to detaching, and focusing on you and your son.
Now, as for yesterday, I don't believe the MLCer is even capable of connecting emotionally during sex. If you choose to do it (and I did earlier on, so no judgement here), make sure it's for YOU, and that you have no expectations afterward.
He can't give you what he doesn't have. He can only get those emotions himself, from the inside, and he's nowhere near looking that direction yet.
I completely understand the feeling of desperately wanting that connection that we miss so much. I'm right there with ya, 2B. And it's lonely. And when you have a tiny taste of the old life, it gives us hope, and we naturally want to push for more....(the kiss).
It didn't surprise me that he was distant for the kiss request today. He's not relating yesterday's sex to affection today.
Keep your expectations at zero. I think that by having
any expectations at this stage (the affection, the ring), that you will continue to feel let-down and frustrated.
Take today to claim your peace back again. My guess is that going darker and being more distant would be the best thing right now. I struggle with it myself, obviously. But I'm learning from you all here.
Sending you big hugs. (((((((2B)))))))
2B,
First, breathe. You're doing great. You're under an enormous amount of stress, and you're going to get through it. I know you will.
Take some time and feel what you feel. Let it out, but try not to let it take over.
When you can find that calm center again, just get back on the path. Take your mind off H.
Do something you love today. Even a small thing. Just for you. Take a relaxing bath with music, get nails done, go for a walk.... This wave will pass.
Another thing I'm told, is that no "one event" or bad day is going to ruin every bit of progress. It may not necessarily have any effect on things either way.
Hang in there, 2B.
2B, I would apologize for bringing this ring thing up at the unfortunate time and offer support to H with dealing of his friend’s death. I’m sure he would be glad to accept that. But, that’s me. I had similar episode with H before BD, when I confronted him about the testing with a woman I didn't know and it was at the same time when he learnt about hid Dad’a passing. It was over the text. When he told me about his Dad, I quickly and sincerely apologized and he was actually relieved and accepted the apology. He needed my support at that time.
I would not back off on the ring though, just apologize for the timing of this.
Shining & Bright (I love your names together)
Thanks for the support. The rejection request for the kiss just sent me over the edge, but I can say I did not speak mean or yell or cry, just wanted him to take the ring and keep it with his.
I do have GAL planned for today, baby shower, birthday party, & fight party (son is able to go to bday and fight party, if he wants) so it will be a long fun day.
Tomorrow when I see H I will make sure to say something about his friends death. I had ask H earlier if he was ok and about his friend.
Thoughts about:
The ring, so is leaving it with a note too dramatic, too much, too emotional.
I do truly feel that I'm done wearing it for now, I know I have gone back and forth with this ring, on or off...
IMO....
Wear it if you want to. Take it off if you want to. The meaning it has for you, and what feels "right" for YOU, is all that matters.
I would say "no" to the note. Sounds like expectations attached for a response you probably won't get....I think any response you may get would likely be negative.
Now, preMLC? Yeah, it would definitely send a message, and scare him, and he would probably want to talk, etc.....
He's off spinning in lalaland, thinking 12 million things that are not related to the M right now.
Just my .02.
.
Yeah,,
I have had this exact same advice before as it relates to my ring.
Ok so I will wear it IF I want, will not leave it with a note for H.
I also feel like I'm spinning...
Off to GAL
Yep, we had the ring discussion not so long ago. If you want to wear your ring, wear it. If you don't, then don't. However, don't leave any kind of note about it. You've had your say about the ring, so leave it alone for a while.
Also, he's pretty much stated his thoughts on affection towards you, i.e., by not kissing you in public. Sex is just that...sex. If I'm reading correctly, he doesn't have any real emotional connection to you in loving and responsive way...am I correct on that? Mlcers can't bond w/us on that emotional level and to them sex is just a way to get some relief/satisfaction at the moment. My question to you is this....do you sense any real connection from him when you are having sex or is it just something he wants to do routinely?
I may be wrong, but your h has a ways to go before he's even half baked.
Keep your expectations low or even at zero.
Job
Yesterday I thought there was an emotional connection from H, more so then any other time we had sex since BD.
But I'm so confused with trying to "read" H emotions or responses I could be wrong.
H may not even be 1/2 baked, but I'm not sure I will be here for him once he finishes cooking.
H was home from work when I got home from my parties. I ask him about his friend, and if he planned on going to funeral...just wanted to let H know that I care about how he feels about his friends death.
I know I need to pull back, I think I was testing the waters and not really happy with the responses, but I know I need to NOT expect anything.
I would detach a little bit more. Just be yourself and try to accept your h as he is today. It takes a lot of energy to "read your h's emotions and responses. Keep in mind, his emotions bounce all over the place, so the response you get right now may be totally different in 10 minutes. Best to leave him to his little adventure in La La Land and you try to keep the focus on you and your family.
BTW, don't be surprised that when you pull back, he'll pursue and rope you back in, be it w/comments and/or actions or sex.
Job
That is very tricky, I have already noticed when I pull back, he will respond with sex and or comments or more friendly talking, more smile.
GAL today shows me how much progress I have had with working on myself. I went to brunch with a good friend and her group of friends, I would have normally been very uncomfortable to meet with a group of ladies that I dont know, would have thought of myself of the odd one out, but I had a great time, I was very comfortable in who I was, so had no problem meeting up with a group of ladies I did not know.
H did give me the side eye as i was rushing around this morning to get dressed to meet the ladies for brunch.
A comment from my Mom thru me off a little, she commented that I'm doing too much without my H, without going into all the details I told her that he is not really interested in going or doing things with me right now, my mom commented that he seems depressed and stuck in a rut to her and that I needed to be patient, but she was proud of me for not just sitting around, and that she hopes my H soon starts to spend more time with me. But she thinks I should make sure to let him know that I would rather be doing more things with him.
Good for you 2B, I'm glad you were able to GAL and out of your comfort zone no less!
I've had a couple of those " blow ups" like you describe. They didn't involve rings but still were related to our R and his thought processes and behaviors.
Luckily FY coached me through one of them and that despite my fears, a big truth vomit conversation wouldn't make or break the sitch- and he was right.
I'm sorry to hear about your H's friend- it can be especially hard for the to cope in the midst of MLC and already spinning. Deep down I'm sure he appreciates your offer of support.
While I can see you recognize the blowup was not the right way to handle things, this may come off as kicking you when your down. But I am NOT trying to kick:
I want you to change perspective. I want you to look at the past few days from your H's view:
- Had really good ML last light
- I attended S's game
- I even had her listen in my my call when I needed to pull a double, and I even called her during my break that night.
- So, I didn't kiss her.... and she goes all WWIII on me and "throws" her ring at me.
- On top of this, I still need to get a suit for Bob's funeral.
Could you please re-read DB & DR for me. I think you need to get back to some of the fundamentals.
You still need to do some major detaching: The whole point of detachment is so you get off HIS crazy train. Not to start your own.
You also need to focus on those GAL's.
When you are still "attached" and not following through with your GAL's, your mind starts spinning/wandering/thinking (why is he taking a double shift, why didn't he kiss me back, why doesn't he wear his ring). Doing the GAL's and detaching not only keeps us occupied, but also burns energy. Helps us sleep better, keeps us from going nuclear over a kiss (or lack thereof)
I can see a lil from his possible view...
Detaching ...I'm tying to detach ....it seems like when I feel detached H seems to reach out to me.
Is detaching harder with the MLC in the house?
I need to focus on pulling back...H was off today I was off and he made a point to watch a movie with me..I wanted to be alone but I watched movie with him.
When S came home we ate dinner and watched another movie.
Hard for me to detach mentally and emotionally but not physically.
rereading but my mind is blocked I feel like I want things to change now!!!
I'm confused
Your h is playing the "dance". You distance and he becomes nice and reaches out to you. Once you do so, he will then begin distancing from you. The best way to break this cycle is to remain neutral and continue as you have been while distancing.
Detaching is hard and it can be more so w/the mlcer living at home because they are around in some fashion 24/7, but if you can look at him as a roommate you can detach a bit more.
The only changes you can make are to you and what you are doing w/your life. You can't change him, he has to do that himself.
Continue detaching and stay the course.
Job
Neutral? Hmmm,,,So when H reaches out, so I stay neutral in my mind and emotions but not in my actions? Like H wanted to watch a movie, should I have declined? Are watch the movie but watch it while in my emotions and mind, I'm watching with my roommate not my H?
H has mentioned several times lately lil comments about my social life, again came up yesterday so I ask him if he wanted to be invited, told H when I did invite you always responded NO or had some excuse. I said do you want me to invite you places or not, H said he might go it depends on where and who else is going. So he wants me to invite him places?
Neutral...do I not invite him? If he ask to spend time with me do I say no?
Like I said this back and forth now has me really confused.
I can't speak about detachment while living together. So maybe some others can chime in with better expierence.
But that never stopped me from throwing my $0.02 in the pot:
So he wants me to invite him places?
Sounds like it to me. Although it is conditionally (he wants to know who and where).
If it was me: I would say: "Hey I am meeting Jim, Ed, Sally and Sue at Applebees... You are welcome to come along.
Like I said this back and forth now has me really confused.
The confusion goes away with detachment & GAL's (see my above post), keep working on them. They will not happen by osmosis, you need to put in the WORK.
Wounded,,,
I'm trying to detach more,,,I appreciate my H still be in the house (I think), but every time now I pull back he reaches out for me,,,and the last time I fell hard...
Re-reading while my mind is sooo confused is not really working right but I'm trying my best.
GAL, I feel like I got this part:) Enjoying myself:)
I realized the difference I think,,,before when I was detaching H did not seem to care...now it seems like he at least feels me pulling away,,,and so the dance has started.
My own crazy train,,,that was funny but very true!
Can you do things w/him w/o expectations? Can you treat him like a roommate or just a friend? He knows that he can "hook" you back in and that's where you have to find a way not to react to his overtures. Treat him as you would a roommate or a friend and accept him for who he is right now...just a friend and when he sees that he can't "hook" you back in the games may eventually stop...but you are the only one that can stop them by not reacting or expecting something from him. Yes, it's hard to stop this game/dance...but you've already learned the first step, i.e., being aware of what he's doing.
Detach a bit more and if you want to invite him then invite him and leave the option up to him if he wants to attend and if he doesn't...then go on your own and have a great time. It's his loss if he doesn't want to do things w/you and friends.