I want to just respond with something short for now, because if he opens himself like this, I don't want to reinforce it negatively and ignore....I want to encourage him to be safe with me when he has feelings.
Shining,
I think you gave yourself great advice. Take it. :-)
Maybe something a bit vague and validating..."Thanks for your honesty, I appreciate it."
Connecting convo from last thread, weird spot to transition.....
I'm open for input.... Confused. I've been pursuing less than ever. And he seems to want more distance than ever.....maybe he is saying more, but it feels like he's moving further away....
I haven't seen H in a couple of days, and have been pretty dark since the last time I saw him. We haven't been physical, other than snuggling side by side sitting together at dinner, hugs, kisses....all of which he initiated.
H has been quiet, (we both have) since the last time we saw each other two days ago, and when the talk got weird about his apartment, etc.....then there was the weird text at church when he assumed I was with a guy....
Then today, I receive this:
H: How is your day?
M: Good. Yours?
H: Good. Cleaning day.... I can't believe how much dog hair comes up in just the master bedroom
Sent u a couple emails
M: Ok.
H: Sorry I got quiet. I realized our time together felt very good and liked it and I wanted more.... But we have so much unresolved. I am afraid and caught myself pulling back. This is my fault and not yours. We agreed we would enjoy just spending friendly time together. I took it farther. It's hard to explain I guess.
^^^^i don't even know what he believes he took farther because I saw nothing ^^^^
I don't know how to respond. I want to validate, DB, etc. but that's all I have been doing and he wants more distance.... I think. ?
Typically I would have taken the comment about taking it farther to mean physical ... But he made zero moves that way, and he's not subtle when he does, lol....
Based on the situation, I was taking it to mean emotion. That is what would most likely cause him to freak and run.
I want to just respond with something short for now, because if he opens himself like this, I don't want to reinforce it negatively and ignore....I want to encourage him to be safe with me when he has feelings.
Things he hasn't said like this before:
Sorry he got quiet (openly acknowledging, rather than "none of your business what I do")
Afraid
My fault not yours (owning something....anything!)
Hard to explain
Just processing it all.... Ok, yeah, overthinking. But I'm tuned in.
How about, "I appreciate you being so open and honest with me. Tell me what you need from me, please."
Maybe?
Ok, took the quick advice of LT...
I just sent back, "I appreciate you being so open and honest with me".
H responded: I'm afraid to get emotionally close at this point. I feel good and comfortable with you. It scares me.
NOW WHAT.
Oh, no....
I've gone completely brain dead, it seems. Strange shock feeling has come over my head.
I see him pulling you into a R talk here. Be careful.
IMO, send a noncommittal smiley face and leave it there for today. I'd avoid anything like "Tell me what you need from me, please." It sounds a bit like pursuing. He seems to respond best when you are detached and living the life (in his mind)...stay mysterious and a bit vague about your intentions...especially when you don't really know what to say. Then, say as little as possible. :-)
Or..."I'm just glad I could be there for you." ????
Followed by, "OH Wow! Is that the time? Gotta go rotate the tires."
I Would say," taking the first steps can be scary. Lets just enjoy the moment."
Shining,
I would either say nothing because is there really anything to say to that ? Or if you feel you must say something you could say "I understand" and leave it at that.
Followed by, "OH Wow! Is that the time? Gotta go rotate the tires."
Splurked coffee! Makes as much sense as their shid, in fact he might even understand that!
How about, "OMG. I have a Pap Smear scheduled in an hour. I better run."
Shining, I was afraid for you that this would happen. You may think you arent pursuing, but, subtlely you are. Not a 2 x 4..just an observation.
You have got to let him lead completely. But you also have to live your life. I wouldnt always be available. It is scary to them that you are sitting around waiting.
He wants to be friendly. He feels how much you want him and this and it is freaking him out a bit.
You have to get back to living your life and get out of his head. Keep all communication neutral and short.
Leave him to sort this out.
Ok, thank you all... I went with agreeing with him, since I do.... It got into a little r talk, but not deep at all. Whew. Just weird...
Before I could respond, h sent another text (apparently I took too long) "is it just me?"
I replied, "It is not just you. It is definitely scary to feel the emotions. I feel the same about you, too. Comfortable and good, then scared and pull back. "
H: Ok so I am not crazy
Thank you
Then he turned the topic to sex.
(I stopped the cake eating.....didn't make a statement out loud, but I had stopped being physical with him last week. There wasn't a real opportunity anyway, so it worked out well, so I thought.)
Ok, please forgive the crazy of this whole topic of conversation, but I have to put it all out here awkward as it is because it's the only way to have honest perspective......
H: I do enjoy having sex with you. Sex with you is like none other....
M: For me, I can enjoy sex with you very much.... VERY much. Having no emotions won't work for me, because sex is an intimate thing to share with someone. Make sense?
H: Yes it does. We just originally agreed on sex. I am the one that took it farther. Not you. It's my fault
^^^^^^FOR THE RECORD, WE DID NOT AGREE TO THIS.....^^^^^
H again: Did you tell the counselor we have seen each other?
M: no not yet
H: When did you see him last?
M: 3-4 weeks ago.
Nothing more.....so far. It seems he is thinking of going to counseling? I don't think I want that. H is not ready. This is our MC who sees me alone now....
I know I could be detached enough to listen if he needed to get stuff out, if I thought it would help. H doesn't seem to be blaming as much but c might change that idk....
This feels like an important moment and I suddenly have NO CLUE what to do. I hate this.
And I'm so sorry for the TMI.
Yep....uR...dangit.
I need to not be available, for sure. I was doing that the past couple of days, after the house stuff got done.
Well, crud.
I went too far today. I keep reassuring him, as if he needs it... My gut thinks he does. I'm so far off on this....shoot, I'm spinning.
And I was doing so well today. I was thinking I was ready to drop the rope. Thinking about how great I felt being so dark the past two days. Then bam. It's as if he knew it, too.
I keep telling myself after he moves, it will be easier to keep away because there is nothing left. We don't share kids.
H moves in 3 weeks.
What if he really thinks he is ready for counseling.....from the years of experience on this board, I am certain he is not. At least not MC.... Not even close.
Ok. That's it. I'm making tacos.... Georgiabelle? Want some?
He is doing the pursuit and distance dance, S, and you are going along with it.
Ok, so, here's the deal. If you truly believe he is in a MLC, then, you have to get your mind around that you cannot fix him. You just cannot. You can get him to move closer. You can have sex with him if you choose. But you cannot make him come out of this.
The truth is, that this was destined to happen. You cant love him out of this, either.
He has to go through all of it to come out the other side. If he doesnt, and it gets cut short, he runs the risk of having to go through it all over again and most times, it is worse the second time around.
He is wanting you to fix this for him. He wants you to tell him its all ok. Not your job.
He didnt want to be married anymore. Thats the choice he made. Now unless he is committed to reconnecting and doing the work, then he has to live his choices.
You keep getting caught up in these conversations with him and I just dont see them going anywhere good.
This is his journey. Its not an easy one. I feel for him. I feel for you, too.
But love him enough to want him to come through it. Love yourself enough not to allow him to drag you through his stuff.
Come on now, S. Regroup here and get to gettin. You can do this.
He is wanting you to fix this for him. He wants you to tell him its all ok. Not your job.
This is exactly what I believe he wants, and I'm just the person to fall into the trap of thinking I can. I was the girl who could do anything, fix everything in all areas of my life. Obviously, I still think can. If I can't, I figure out how. This is a terribly hard lesson for me. I have to learn to wrap my head around this fact. I CAN'T FIX HIM. I hear the right words, I think I'm finally getting it, then I go back to doing something old.... I am hoping each time I'm better, but it's such a struggle for me. I can't fix him, but if he thinks I can, won't he think I'm turning my back on him? How do I handle this without giving that impression? I'm scared.....
The suicide thing has me paralyzed. I think of this all the time. He suffers from more ailments than depression. It's counterintuitive to not be there for him, but I do get it....if I don't get out of his way, I'm not allowing him to walk his own journey. I'm ultimately hurting him more. I do want him to come through this whole. He is my H, and I committed long ago to love him enough to see him through this. Not interrupt the process and set him up for worse.
I'll get it together. I just feel so lonely, lost and weak.... I have to remember he's even worse.
uR, I forgot to add, "thank you." You always seem to know where I'm at, and what I need next. I value this more than you could know.
And I was doing so well today. I was thinking I was ready to drop the rope. Thinking about how great I felt being so dark the past two days. Then bam. It's as if he knew it, too.
Shining, you are probably right. He could probably sense this from you. I think UR was right on the money. It's OK, don't get down on yourself. You are walking a tight-rope. This is not an easy thing. And of course, hindsight is 20/20. When you are in the moment, it is so easy to get sucked in and believe- OH, this is it! It's a little different! I can let my guard down and let him in. It's what he needs.
Just keep reminding yourself- he knows how you feel. You don't need to tell him. And if he wants you in his life, he will make it happen. He will go out of his way to prove it to you. You deserve for him to do that. He is not incapable of going after something he wants. So when he wants you, he will go for it. Let him. Don't do the work for him.
You are amazing, you are worthy. Keep on moving in the right direction. Know when you are focused on you and your kids, there is no rope to walk on. You can do that unscathed. You can do that peacefully and happily. And it is so different than a tightrope, you can skip, hop, jump, run, in all directions without worrying about him. When he is ready, he will find you.
He is doing the pursuit and distance dance, S, and you are going along with it.
I've always fancied myself a bit of an awesome dancer....but I seem to keep trying to lead. True story.
....btw, I actually ordered the book, "The Solo Partner" on Amazon earlier today.... Nose pressed to the window waiting for the arrival......
Shining,
UR is spot on. You have to remember you can't save your h from himself. That's difficult to realize for a rescuer/fixer, eh? I think if you just left him alone for a while, you would feel so much more relaxed. Your h knows when he texts, you will respond. I'm by no means an expert, however UR said something I really believe. If your h is going thru MLC (and I think he is) you just have to let him go. Really let him go. It doesn't mean you don't care. Just means you live your life because this will take a loooooooooong time for him to work through this. I've realized that saying nothing can be the best option in certain circumstances. Who knew?????
Thanks for the taco invite. I'm afraid you would hate me after you saw me eat them so it's best I decline. Funny, I had just been observing my pores( mine are big) prior to seeing your post. For the record, I'm waiting for them to come out with a show called "Dancing with the Moms." I do t watch television much but I would raise my hand to "pursue" that opp.
I so get the fixing things, In our heads, we think, but we love them, we want to help them. We want to pull them out of it all. We do what we know.
I know this seems counterintuitive to what you should be doing. I know it's so hard for you. You are so hard on yourself, S. It's ok to not completely get this at this point.
The thing is that as long as he looks to you to fix it, he doesnt look within to address what he needs to. It becomes about Shining and whether she can make it all better.
I know you are scared. I know the suicide thing is huge. But he knows you love him. He knows you care...without a single doubt. He does.
So, let's play this out a bit. You tell him what he wants to hear. He comes back without figuring out what was wrong and why he was unhappy. Time goes by and that hole in him is still there. He is still broken. You changed, he didnt. You did the work, he didnt. You were a bandaid.
I am sorry you feel lonely and lost. This is a hard, hard thing. But weak? You? Not one bit, S. Weak doesnt stick it out. Weak doesnt take control and get stuff done and take care of what needs taken care of.
Im thinking that you have some stuff you need to work on. It's ok not to fix everything. It's ok to let others figure stuff out. It isnt a reflection on you, right?
The suicide thing has me paralyzed. I think of this all the time. He suffers from more ailments than depression. It's counterintuitive to not be there for him, but I do get it....if I don't get out of his way, I'm not allowing him to walk his own journey. I'm ultimately hurting him more. I do want him to come through this whole. He is my H, and I committed long ago to love him enough to see him through this. Not interrupt the process and set him up for worse.
I'll get it together. I just feel so lonely, lost and weak.... I have to remember he's even worse.
[/quote]
I have been wondering some things about MLC...
Given the fact that it takes a long, long time....and we have zero control over the time they need to get though it, do they, themselves have any control over this?
I know the general thought is we can't speed it up, but if we are in their way, we can be slowing their process.
Can an MLCer make a conscious decision to stop replay activities? Or does it take as long as it takes regardless.... Or is there an event or epiphany they have that makes them slow down and stop, pushing them to the next phase? Or is it believed to be simply a cycle of development that happens in it's own time?
I know they can bounce all over the stages, and I'm not stage obsessed because I know he's in replay and not near the low end.
Just some thoughts I have that confuse me....
Shining you have asked one of the big questions. UR gave you fabulous and insightful advice. What you are asking is still a 'fixer' question.
The MLCer upbringing, one way or another, failed to give our spouses or ex spouses, the flexibility and resilience to deal with relationships and life events. They manage it for a while - often a very long time, some MLCers including mine managed it for more than 50 years.
Theoretically they could stop replay- and some do. Perhaps those whose MLC is not as serious,, but I do not know this for sure. It certainly isn't about 'whether they love us enough' Which is a typical pursuer/distancer take on it, I have come to see.
My therapist believes that they are fighting for their lives, in psychological terms, and like drowning people, aren't taking time to think about next week or if they are killing their attempted rescuer.
I think there are turning points for all of them, when they 'could' come out and get help, or plunge deeper into the crisis, but we do not know what their internal mindscape is.
Facing up to the damage and hurt takes a lot of resilience, and courage, and MLCers are running scared, and not resilient.
One of the hardest things is to take the focus of them and place it on ourselves. This is his journey, and he needs to be 'allowed' to make it. Lord knows I tried to rescue my h, and probably made things worse.
Thank you, beatrice. My H "MO" is fear. In thinking about the talk of his moving into an apartment, I believe he is more fearful of being alone than he thought he would be. As if he thought all would be so great once this happens, and now the realization is hitting him "be careful what you wish for."
H made this decision back when he had ow....5 months ago.... Now he doesn't. H never intended on living with her, but the thought of a bachelor pad was probably appealing, and I don't think the dating scene is all h thought it would be. Things have changed in him since this proclamation of living alone was made, and now he has to live with this choice.
I know H will have to learn for himself. One of the things his stepmom told me early on (she has always been very close with H) is that she was always concerned about H because he never lived alone. Never had to do everything for himself. He is capable of everything physically, but emotionally.... Not so much. One of H kids may be with him for up to a month while getting situated for his new job, but then it's flying solo....
H has not been sleeping well.... I frequently receive texts or a phone game activity at 3-4am. (I don't see it until I wake up, and I certainly wouldn't respond to a text at that hour unless it's an emergency.). He also complains that his eyes hurt. Like, they're stinging...
He can't keep surviving on fumes like this....something will have to give.
Shining,
Love Bea's insight. Just a word of advice,when I hear people say "he/she can't go on like this" or "they will crash soon" (and I say this because I do understand his you fee, my friend), don't be so sure on that. They can spiral for a long time. I don't say that to discourage you. I say that as you really have to let him be.
Focus on the fabulous Shining! Good luck with the interviews this week. You can stick the landing:)
Oops-understand this feeling. Happy Monday!!
Aaaahhh.... GB, the seemingly endless spiral of "can't go on like this"....
I forget that I can't compare MLC to normal people.... Normal ones can't continue on the fumes. MLC is clearly a whole different ball game.
Thanks for the reminder. I'll get this one day.
And I WILL stick this landing!!!! I may look like Carrie Scruggs.... But I'll scrap my way through it!!
Sorry about that post up there. I wanted to address what you wrote and then forgot to delete your part of the post. My bad.
My friend, Bea, is right. Have some of them looked at what they were doing and stopped the bad behaviors? Yes. Did it decrease the crisis time? I dont believe so.
These MLCers were stunted sometime during their lives when coping skills were learned. So, when a life event or a birthday or the feeling that life is passing them by hits them, they are unable to deal with it.
Until they can figure that out, they flounder.
This crisis it horrific. On everyone. They feel as if they are carrying 1000 pounds on their back. They try everything to feel better.
Your h probably is having some thoughts about how this is all going. Not the way he planned, I'm sure. But that is a great distance from him understanding the reasons why.
Living on his own will bring some clarity perhaps. But whether he connects the dots...that remains to be seen.
I know that trying to understand this seems crucial. The truth is that we cant possibly truly understand because we arent in crisis.
You are still trying to get inside his head. I get why you are. The thing is there is no way of being able to do it.
I know that as long as you can try to analyze it, you dont have to let it go. But you really do have to take a leap of faith here, S. You just have to let go of wanting to fix it and understand it.
There really is no other way.
The only way to do this, is through it....
My friend, Bea, is right. Have some of them looked at what they were doing and stopped the bad behaviors? Yes. Did it decrease the crisis time? I dont believe so.
This is helpful. I'm definitely seeing some different thoughts and behaviors from H lately. I do understand it's not a linear process, and he may very likely cycle right back where he was and keep running in replay for years. Just taking note of some of his recent comments and other observations, some I have posted, some I haven't.
He is realizing that so many things in my life have changed without him. My appearance, for one. My job, for two. My church, for three. My kids lives, for 4-7. And probably biggest of all, my reactions to him. Huge difference. He knows I'm busy and moving forward, but yes, he knows I'm still here for him. He doesn't want me to take the job downtown if I receive an offer. He said it will add an extra hour each way of commuting time (he is right). Why this concerns someone who doesn't want to be with me, I don't know. He is worried I will move back to my home state. He asked a lot of questions about my xh. He secured an apartment in the next city, but I just learned it is actually less than one mile from mine and right up the street. If he wanted to be away from me, or be closer to his work, there were many other options. Why didn't he go farther away when he could? He brought up counseling. This is twice now. I know he's not ready, but he's thinking. Typically I would have taken the conversation further and followed up with questions asking if he wants to go. Both times, I didn't. I let it hang and if this is what he wants he will have to bring it up and make his own appointment.
In many ways, I am stuck because I can't let go. But there are also some major changes I have made already, especially for the amount of time I have known what was going on.
I hate that I'm not very far into this. I don't know for sure when BD was, and I don't put much stock into the timeline because it doesn't matter. I can only deal with what I have today. However, if I consider BD to be the fight before suicide attempt, that puts me at 8 months. If I consider BD when I found out about ow... 4 months. If I consider it the first time H made a speech, told me there was something not right inside of him, he doesn't know why, he knows he loves me but his feelings are different, we're talking a little over 2 years.
Again, nothing matters because there are people going on over 9 years, so there is no way to predict anything.
I have doubts that H will ever be able to look at himself, because when I see his family, brothers, dad, etc....it's actually a family joke among the wives, that the men are never at fault for anything. That everything has to be their idea. That the men don't apologize.... Ugh. However, I have hope. My H was always more sensitive than the rest. He noticed those things, even when he did them. The other wives would say how lucky I was that I had one who could admit fault.... We'll see.
I'm completely flailing my way through this. But I agree 100%, uR, the only way through it, is through it.
Shining,
uRwprthy is correct that the mlcer was stunted emotionally as a young adult/child many years ago and they need to go back to that time and resolve issues surrounding that period in their lives.
I have reposted the first thread from a thread that I created back in 2002 on "My Thoughts As To Why They Run Away". If haven't read this posting, you may want to do so. It may help you better understand what is happening w/your h. Your h's crisis will take as long as it takes and he is the only one that can end it. He may realize at some point that something is wrong w/him and opt for counseling, but many of them do not.
Some people have "snatched" them out of crisis and find out later that their spouses have re-entered the crisis at a later time and that crisis will be far worse than the first time around.
Shining, you truly will not understand what is going on inside his head until he's ready to talk to you about it. Some will eventually sit down and tell you bits and pieces and others will do so once the crisis is over...until then, you've got to take a leap of faith and allow the man upstairs to work on him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Trust me, it takes a lot of strength, determination, faith and patience to let them go and make the mistakes that they need to make in order for them to grow up.
S, letting go is the hardest part of this. Everyone gets there in their own time and in their own way.
I sense you wanting to force yourself there. I'm sorry, it doesnt work that way. It is a process. You are getting closer.
It's a scary thing to let go. But it doesnt mean you dont care. It means you care very much.
The way to get there is to stop analyzing everything he is saying or doing because the truth is, it doesnt matter. He is in crisis. His words and actions wont make sense.
Sweetie, worrying doesnt effect the outcome. But letting go, moving forward and making changes can.
Leave him to this. Just let him figure his stuff out. You want him happy and whole no matter what the result. The only way he can get there....is on his own.
Keep looking inward. Keep working toward becoming your best self.
Dont worry about who he is like or not like in the family. All of that goes out the window when MLC hits. Did you ever think he would do what he's done? So, who he was or who he is like, doesnt really matter, right?
Keep self talking your way through this.
You will get to where you need to be. I have not one doubt.
Job, uR, everything you've said has been spot on. I'm trying to push through so hard, and I'm already tired. And I've just begun. And that's frightening. My irrational thinking is that if I detach and he thinks I'm gone forever he will follow through with his attempt from February. Rationally, I know this is not anything I can control and he could do this at any time. He does not threaten, nor do we even talk about the past incident. But seeing him cry again and knowing that he is depressed...the trauma is there in my head and it's so painful. For some reason I feel responsible but at the same time I know I'm not. That doesn't make sense.
I sense you wanting to force yourself there. I'm sorry, it doesnt work that way. It is a process. You are getting closer.
I am absolutely wanting to force myself there. >sigh<
I feel like letting go is like my own tunnel to acceptance. The scary feeling of really letting it all go. And the avoidance I have of doing this is my own way of running down the rabbit hole...
Please know, I'm not always consumed by these thoughts, but in down times, I find myself trying to think of any possible way this isn't really happening. That there is a different answer. That this situation is going to be shorter. That he is going to wake up soon and everything will be over.
Sometimes I can't turn it off.
Shining,
Please be kind to yourself. It's one hour at a time, one day at a time. You can't rush the grieving process of your old marriage. Just as the mlcer requires time to grow you, you, the lbs, requires time to heal and yes to let go. Letting go doesn't happen when you want it to. It is a very gradual process and it will happen in due time. Don't try to rush your process and attempt to go around it...but work through it.
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was letting go and detachment. One step at a time.
Hi Shining,
Don't worry about feeling that this really isn't happening, that there is a different answer, etc. I think we all go through those times, I know I do. As long as you don't let these times of "wishful thinking" take over. Disbelief is a stage and we will cycle through the different stages at times. Just don't get stuck there, that's all.
I mean, just knowing how bad he must be hurting to think of taking his life, and that I didn't get it. I just knew he was depressed. And it kept getting worse. But knowing he's still so lost and in pain and I can't do ANYTHING is torture.
He's hurting all of us, but he's clearly hurting himself more. He's doing all this crazy stuff. Old H would be mortified. And he is so confused and he doesn't know why. And I can see his thoughts racing and him trying to hide it from me and I smile like a caring sister...
This is completely messed up. I can't figure this out and I'm mad at myself about that. Who the heck do I think I am, anyway? Why should I be any better at this than anyone here who has known these things for decades.... Why can't I just roll over and accept this, and move on? What is wrong with me?
Shining,
We all thought we knew what to do for our spouses when they flipped. We all fought, kicked and screamed that our situations were different from those that were posting here or had offered up advice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. It takes time to learn how to cope and deal w/an mlcer and yes, to learn how to live and move forward w/your life while he's orbiting earth.
All you can do for him is be there as a friend, no pressure. Listen, validate, and provide a safe place for him to land whenever he has moments of clarity. He knows you love him and he knows that you are still there for him.
Let me just say this, if you even attempt to help him, he'll deny he needs help or he'll distance himself further from you. You can't pressure him right now to seek help. He's got to be the one to make that decision. May will hit bottom and overs will scrape the bottom for a very, very long time. When your h has run out of avenues to try to ease his emotional and mental pain, that's when he may very well begin to look within. Until that time, you have to keep the focus on you and your children. You are the adult now and your children need to know that you are there for them. They need to know that "mom" is not going to leave them. They, too, have to have a safe place to land and talk about how they are feeling.
Shining, don't beat yourself up. It takes time and that's why you need to try to stop analyzing his every word or action. There will be no rhyme or reason to some of the things he says or does because they are done on an emotional level and not a rational one. You aren't going to be able to figure him out or the what if's and why's of what he's doing for a long time, if then.
For now, put the mlc puzzle away and focus on you and your family. Focus on the positives in your life. Please be patient and try not to rush the process for either of you. It's a very slow one and his clock is extremely slow and not on our time. Try to find things to keep you busy and try not to beat yourself up. You didn't create his situation.
Oh Shining I just want to reach out and hug you! I so understand where you are at emotionally as I am right there with you. Just when I think I'm doing well and letting H cook, interactions occur that pull me back onto the roller coaster.
I don't have much in the way of advice as I am in the same place as you. But I can and do empathize with all of it. Hang in there.
I'm going to read this whole thread over and over while sitting in the ortho waiting room for the next hour....
It's all hitting hard today... I'm cycling.
It's frustrating. H was in the "rehab" center after his attempt in February. The afternoon-evening in the ER after my S(17 at the time) found him unconscious, was terrifying. H was so incoherent. He physically fought going to rehab and being admitted, and we had to "trick" him into going voluntarily or they would send him through the court systems and he would end up somewhere across town at a facility we wouldn't want. His brother had to wrestle him to the ground once H realized he wouldn't be able to have his cell phone. He was panicked because he locked himself out of the password. I didn't know why he was so protective of his phone then.... I know now, and I'm certain there was some unsavory activity going on for a long time before that day.
When he was first given permission to call me from rehab, the day after his OD and being admitted from the ER, he was sobbing. Begging forgiveness from all of us, including kids. Apologizing like crazy as he cried. Said he would be in there for up to 5 weeks. I could visit for one hour each day. No cell phone. One land line that he shared with 30 others.
This was not a man anyone would think of as high risk of anything. He didn't do drugs, barely drank alcohol, never got drunk, very responsible... And here he was. It was shocking.
He had group therapy for a minimum of 6 hours per day, and we all believed he hit rock bottom. He talked about having issues inside of him from his past that he never realized before, and that he was working on them. He kept repeating a Paulo Coelho quote over and over, "Don’t allow your wounds to turn you into a person you are not." He kept saying how that quote really spoke to him.
They let him out after only 5 days.
We went to counseling. He began to weasel out of his work immediately. He said he realized he missed a few days of his AD and that's why he was in such a funk and not thinking clearly. That he never would have attempted suicide if that hadn't happened. He lost 3 days of memory before OD.
Then the blame began. I was blindsided. I thought finally we would be dealing with the real issues.... Then he did just what you wrote, job, he flipped.
I think this is part of what keeps me stuck. He seemed so close to doing his work. Is that what they call running back into the tunnel?
I know I need to stop analyzing what he does. I'm still looking back, though, at when and how this all began. Again, it means nothing, changes nothing... But it's just the way my mind works.
The way to get there is to stop analyzing everything he is saying or doing because the truth is, it doesnt matter. He is in crisis. His words and actions wont make sense.
Hold onto Ur's words Shining.
Many MLC-ers have moments of clarity where it "appears" that they are facing the music finally...We all breathe a sigh of relief...only, to get pelted with more insanity, blame, rejection, abandonment, etc...
I think, much like alcoholics/addicts, MLC-er's have moments where God gives them a plunk and they are faced with the choice of dealing with the demons or going back into the tunnel. Or, maybe, the demons are just too strong for them. IDK.
Just know that YOU aren't alone. He could fight this...I have to believe this...He has a choice. In my moments of greatest despair on this journey...I've been able to reach out to God and others for support. In my humility, I have found peace and hope and comfort...I have to believe that our spouses have the same opportunity. Whether or not they take action at this moment of clarity??? That moment of humility???
I mean, I guess, for me, I love Smokey and always will. I have to believe he knows this. I tried so hard for so long to help. I couldn't. Nothing I tried worked.
So...I'm left with the reality that:
Either he is choosing to remain stuck in the life he has chosen...the path he has taken.
OR...
He is a lost soul and incapable of being truly honest with himself and others.
In either case, I would be compromising myself if I continued to reach out to him. I gave enough of myself to save him. I can't be the one to save him. I just can't. Twenty years of trying is long enough.
I need to save myself for the sake of our children. In this way, IDK, maybe I'm giving Smokey the best chance by living a life worth living.
Shining,
I was not a man who anyone would think of at a risk of anything,I didn't do drugs, rarely drank alcohol, very responsible but...... I had an MLC or It actually chose me. I would not choose to go through that but......it did help me become a much better person but that is looking at it from a place outside the tunnel and looking back at MLC objectively.
Your husband is not ready yet to make that journey out. For me the day I stopped looking at my life as everybody elses fault but my own fault was the day I could finally look at myself and that was the day I began the journey out of the fog.
This is his journey and his alone to choose his way. Hopefully the pain of not coming out the tunnel becomes so great he has no choice but to look at himself and do the work.
Give yourself a break, and move ahead with your life.
Mirage
Shining, I want you to know I completely get you wanting to understand this. Completely. I spent many months doing the same thing. Trying to figure out when it started, what got it started, where he was at.
I thought if I could get my mind around it, it would help me move forward. I thought if I could understand, I could help him.
Took me a long time to be able to let go of all of that.
That is also the reason why I try so hard to get others to see that is the only way to do this.
I wasted valuable time trying to understand. Time that was better spent on my son and I. Not because we were more important than he was, but, because what I was trying to do wouldnt make any difference.
The truth is that you cannot know. You cannot figure it out. No matter how hard you try. Trust me on that. Even if you can figure out what issues brought him into the tunnel...you cant help him work through it.
I know that's hard to accept. I do. I see you going round and round here. Maybe that's what you need to do in order to come to acceptance.
I just hate to see you torture yourself over something that has nothing at all to do with you. I hate to see you questioning all that you knew to be true.
Sweetie, take the leap of faith. Just take it. Allow yourself to accept that this is bigger than you are. It is his. All his. No amount of love, no amount of analysis or thoughts are going to change what is. And that is that he is on a path that was his destiny.
Allow him to walk it. Its the only way.
It's ok, S. It's ok to let him go. You arent quitting on him. You arent giving up. You dont love him any less.
You are allowing him the best chance he has of coming out the other side.
He will go in and out and around the tunnel. He will have moments of clarity and moments of being his old self.
It's a tough road for him, for sure. Tough for you, too.
The greatest gift you can give him is to let him walk this. That is unconditional love right there.
Hi, UR is right - nothing wrong with trying to understand MLC - Job has read so much and really gets what it is all about Some people need to do this, and I am one of them BUT It doesn't alter their journey, it makes it less personal, less about us, and helped me in different ways.
In the early stages I felt horrible and rejected so understanding the MLC process helped me see it wasn't me. Further on I can see MLC in the broader context of personality disorder and dysfunctionality
What I do know is that what everyone says is right - this is their journey and also our journey. Our chance to grow and develop. To drop the rope and get our own lives. Living with someone who became dysfunctional to the point of MLC takes its own toll and we have much to heal from
I have changed the patterns of a lifetime, and am happier as a result. It was a great gift (which is took a very long time to see and accept) to be freed from a relationship which had become dysfunctional and would only have become more so. You have a chance to take the focus of your husband and put it on yourself. He will either get through this or he won't, and if he does you will be better placed to have a better marriage
If he doesn't, then you will have a great life. It is a crucible and we are in the refiners fire.
UR, job, bea, GB, Heather, Mighty, Ats, Mirage, Matt, daring, thank you for the life raft yesterday. I really needed the truth, support and wisdom, and you all were here for me. I am feeling so overwhelmed. Not constant, fetal position despair, but it still comes and goes. I'm not past the current wave of sadness yet, but I have enough to catch my breath now. It's so comforting to be able to reach out, dump my head trash without judgment, and have the words of experience and perspective help me reset.
It's all so ridiculous. I feel like I'm acting like some spoiled brat who can't have her "way". I admit, I am used to getting my way....but never with an entitlement mindset. I'm used to working for it, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I was not born with a silver spoon. Not poor, but everything was earned. This marriage was earned.
We worked so hard for so long to get together, we planned (haha....plans) our life together, set personal, financial, and familial goals, and we met them. We supported and respected each other, until this all hit. We had our bad days, our fights, made mistakes....but we were great friends. REALLY great friends. We often commented and joked about the fact that we were so attracted to each other, but hey, cool, turns out I really like you, too! We didn't walk around the house with tension, avoiding each other, glaring, making rude comments or gestures. I know that scene. We didn't have that.
^^^^ That right there is one thing you all are trying to get across. This was never about me or us. ^^^^^
This was going to happen no matter how perfect I could have been. For the record, I wasn't.... (Not a necessary clarification, I'm sure, but so you all know I know haha). I over functioned. I enabled. I am codependent. I didn't always address things H wanted me to. I was not the wife I could have been. But I'm still pretty awesome, I think.
But I have to disconnect my faults from this situation. Identify what I can change and fix (and I have done a lot, but still so much more work to do.....wow). I have to let God work on H.
I do have a lot going on with my kids, and that fills much of my time. They are my world. The detachment jar is working wonders. I haven't paid-in for about 6 days I think.... I'm self conscious about my grieving around them. I don't hide my feelings, but I don't pull the kids into it, either. I tell them (probably once every 10-14 days) if I'm having a little bit of a tough day, but I'm ok. We'll be ok. We've done this before, and we can do this again. Then we change the subject and talk movies or Supernatural (current Netfilx obsession of theirs).
As I read my thread, I find myself answering your posts out loud at times...."Yes, I absolutely love H enough to let him walk his journey!" "Yes, I want to be a better person for him to return to, should that happen." "Yep, I'm trying to fix this and analyze...I sure am." I feel like your all right at my side. That is a huge blessing for this lonely gal.
Time to be still. Be quiet. Regroup. Pull back. Calm down. Breathe..... Let go.
I'll get there. Thanks to you all, I will for sure.
Quick update...
I got a call from the job recruiter today.....follow up with HR for the high-paying (well, high for me) downtown job. Apparently, of the candidates she has interviewed, I am the only one so far that fits "what she's looking for." So that was good for my PMA
. She said they are going to continue to interview, since HR will need to bring 2-3 candidates to the next level. So, I haven't been ruled out!
This is the job that H got weird about for some reason. Telling me I would be happier with a closer, less stressful job, the commute is going to be so much farther, quality of life blah blah blah... Oh, I'm sorry, H, why is it that you think your opinion matters at this point? Strange to me that there would be any concern at all regarding what I do. It does not affect him.
Is it bad that it makes me want the job even more????
Ha! I don't think that's bad at all- sometimes we just need to feel our juvenile side as long as we don't act it out!! I would be same way.
Wishing you lots if good luck and PMA for the next round of interviews!
Thanks, Daring! I'll take all the luck I can get.
Oh! I just remembered.... (And this is good because my not-thinking-about-H is making me forget stuff until now)
H also said not to worry about house repair money I owe him, because he's "in a better financial position right now" than I am....AND... because, ok get this...since I'm job hunting and the best opportunity (so far) is far away....take my time and keep looking because, wait for it....
He doesn't want me to settle.
Oh, I won't settle, H. I promise.
Snipey tonight, aren't I?
Now there's the Shining I have been getting to know...:)
Attagirl!
Did I ever tell you about my wall? The one that has the huge dent in it from hitting my head against it trying to figure out my h? Yea....fun times....not. LOL!
Yeah...uR.... I have that same wall. But you knew that.
Here is where I'm at today:
1. I'm pretty awesome.
2. I'm worthy of being happy.
3. My kids are growing into some amazing young adult-like beings.
4. The sun is shining.
5. My rent is paid.
6. My dog is a spaz.
6. Nothing h does or says matters at all, because he's absolutely crazy and it's obvious because he doesn't want to be married to me right now, and, well....refer to #1.
Life is too good to be wasted. And I'm too good to be left behind.
True freakin that, S. I like....
Wrote this on my thread to you. "You know, I have had some things going on in my life and had taken a break from the boards.
But something told me to come and check out the forum. When I did, I was drawn to your posts.
You are right, we have clicked. I see a lot of me in you. Your stubbornness and your ability to laugh at yourself and some other things.
It happens on here from time to time where there is a connection. Some of those people have become very dear friends of mine."
You got this, Shining....
uR, I believed in my heart that I was one of the reasons you came back when I read your post. That there are no coincidences, and something greater than we can understand calls us to be exactly where we need to be, when we need to be there.
This whole board is a blessing. But, for some reason, your words speak to me in a way my soul can understand. I am certain I found this site because I needed to read your words. Not done, though! Disclaimer: That past-tense "needed" includes current and future needs, as well!!! Keep it coming, please.
Back to the something greater.... If I truly believe what I wrote above, I also have to believe and accept that I am called away from H right now for a reason. And I need to be where I am, whether I understand that reason or not.
6. Nothing h does or says matters at all, because he's absolutely crazy and it's obvious because he doesn't want to be married to me right now, and, well....refer to #1.
Life is too good to be wasted. And I'm too good to be left behind.
True, true!
You know, since my divorce, EVERY man I have dated has asked me the same question - "Is your ex CRAZY???". None of them could imagine why he would leave a great woman like me!
^^^^^^
Ellie, your xh missed the boat with you! Shining, glad to hear about the fancy schmancy, high paying job. You are a contender ( like we didn't already know that). You are fabulous and good things are just around the corner. I guess we will call you The Shining next:-)
Kml, I LOVE that you get that comment!!! I am getting similar looks from my new neighbors...how do you not answer, "heck, yeah, he's crazy!!"
GB, oh, now you've done it... "The Shining"...
That movie has good quotes...
I was looking up one in particular, but fell upon this:
"But see that you get on. That's your job in this hard world, to keep your love alive and see that you get on, no matter what. Pull your act together and just go on."- Stephen King, The Shining
I'm going to have to watch it again
.
I am most definitely using your list to remind me to not give away my power! I'm a strong independent woman but this situation sure challenges your self worth.
I think I might print it out and put it on my mirror
Who cares if H sees it- he is crazy!!
Daring, you most definitely are a strong independent woman. We'll get through this, inch by inch.
I woke up today at 6:00, to another phone game request sent from H at 3:45 am. This is the third or fourth time H sent something in the middle of the night. H has said he isn't able to sleep well anymore. I'm guessing the vets are, once again, correct when they say the demons come at night. H never used to wake up in the middle of the night. I was the light sleeper of the two of us... He was always a deep sleeper. Just an observation.
Interesting that H doesn't care that I know because he's sending requests that are time stamped....maybe he wants me to know and see if I care to ask? Maybe he's a purple elephant with roller skates. They both mean the same to me.
I recognized another example of the vets on this board being very wise with their words. We REALLY don't always know what the WAS is doing or thinking or feeling, and we should not assume.
Job, your words come to mind in something that happened last night.
During my power walk, I was getting myself into a good mindset, a little angry energy, but not stewing. H has been texting me for several days, very consistently. I noticed when he was with ow or on a "known" date in the past, his texts would obviously stop. Last night, after 6:00, he didn't text me or send a game request. I ASSUMED H had a date. I felt myself going into "stinkin' thinkin'" mode. So I talked myself into not caring, allowing him to walk his path, get out of his way, etc. However, H texted later telling me he finally got his D19 phone bill issue resolved and spent the evening with her at the store, helping her get a pay as you go phone, etc. And that was actually true. I would have been making up stories for nothing, only hurting myself.
Funny thing, I already knew she got a new phone and number, since she sent me a text 20 minutes earlier to add to my contacts. I congratulated her, since she has not had phone service for over 3 months, and was limited to texting only in wifi range. So she was excited. She said she was sorry about my job. She said H told her about it. In he same text, she also said she is sorry he is such a womanizer, and that he was showing her pics of "all these women" he was "talking to" and that he was going to break up with one of them his weekend. Yawn.
I responded with "ahh" and nothing more. She sent back she was sorry that hurts (not a super sensitive and mature thing to tell me about H dates to begin with, especially since I told her I don't want to know, but, hey, she's 19).
I hate that H is talking to her on her level, as if they're friends. He is her father, and he's showing such a poor example of morals. It's embarrassing, really. He looks like such an idiot. And he can't see it. H D19 said she just laughs at him. She is very streetwise, rough-around-the-edges, and not at all innocent by any means, but.....it's still her dad telling her of all his conquests. There is no way that isn't messing with her head a little. Ugh. Yuck.
Oddly enough, it didn't hurt me to hear that as much as it has before. Maybe a small blip, or a ping of pain. Then it went into my schema and it was gone. For whatever reason, for me, the ow aren't a focus. I know they're skanky band aids. And he will not find better than me:). Have fun looking, though, H. You look like a fool to everyone.
I also woke up with a renewed sense of purpose. I am not detached. But I'm less attached. I have not texted H nor have I responded to game request. I'm busy.
I think I'm going to invent a new dance, and actually call it the "Pursuit and Distance". So if you see it on SYTYCD in future seasons, that will be me waving in the audience as they announce my name
.
Your attitude about the OWs is commendable and while you say you're not detached you're doing a great job of being "less attached". Wow. I'm impressed.
Make sure you copyright that dance so you can retire early.
So excited!! I just got my Phil DeLuca book in the mail!!! "The Solo Partner" will be coming to archery with me while I sit there for S16 class.
Been reeeeeaallly dark and distant from H today. So what does H do? Calls. Of course, about the house, because the closing date changed. Valid, I suppose.
H called this afternoon with his undies in a bunch about the closing date. Apparently the buyers can't make the original date, and they moved it up one week, giving H less time to prepare. Hmmmmm. Gee, H, can't tell you how sorry I am about you being inconvenienced. Especially since you had so many various options, a higher income, and less people. Oh, that's right.... No one besides yourself. Not to mention the months of time you've had knowing you would be moving, but instead of preparing, you elected to go out partying and scraping barrel bottoms (and other bottoms.....ew.)
I'm sorry you feel that way. Uh huh. Oh, wow. That must have been frustrating. Mmmhmm. Yeah. I imagine you'll figure it out. Oops, look at the time. Thanks for the update.
Big breath. Sigh.
I'm waiting for my The Solo Partner, too. It's sad how excited I am to get a new "help book".
lack of planning on H's part does not necessitate an emergency on anyone else's. Oh well.
Shining, thank you for your kind words. I believe, without a doubt, that we are exactly where we should be. Our paths were meant to cross. I am so glad they did.
Good on you for getting back on your path. I know you know that we have to take each day as they come. It's important not to get ahead of yourself and yes, I know because I used to do it.
So, this journey is not linear...be prepared for some waves. The hope is that the highs become more frequent and the lows less so.
I am sorry that his daughter felt the need to tell you that stuff. Even more sorry that he has made the poor choice of telling her that stuff.
I am glad you are beginning to see that what you imagine, very often isnt what is happening.
I have had to opportunity to pick the brains of some people who have gone through MLC's. Lucky me....LOL!
Many of them told me that very thing. That their spouses thought they were having this great life, when the reality was that they were struggling with self loathing and depression and almost in a frenzy at times to feel better.
That's why it's best to just live your life for you and your children right now. You cant figure out crazy. No use wasting valuable time trying to do that.
You really are very funny....that will take you a long way through all of this.
uR, I am back on my path, for sure.
I think In the beginning of all this, after reading and learning just enough to be dangerous, I had an >expectation< of myself, that being "on the path" meant I was completely detached already, living my life 100% to the fullest each day, and not feeling any pain at all whatsoever. ....yeah, because that's realistic this early.
For the record, I've NEVER been a marathoner. ALWAYS a sprinter. Never understood the mindset of someone who deliberately runs for long periods of time, pacing oneself, one stride at a time, and gets there when they get there. No, seriously...I know, you're shocked. I hide this trait sooooooo well.
Somebody up there must want me to learn patience. And I do want to learn it. Right now.
Shining,
Dealing w/MLC is not for the faint of heart. This is not a sprint, but truly a marathon. Patience is one of the largest keys you will need during this. Continue to dig deeper for it. Keep expectations very low or even at zero. You won't be able to rely on him for things because his memory is that of a gnat and they become very forgetful and lose track of time as well.
Many here are fixers and planners...guess what, throw those tools out the window when dealing w/a MLCer. Nothing stays the same and because he's emotional, things will change in a second.
Read the book and you'll discover many things that may become clearer to you.
Keep the focus on you.
Job,
It's strange because I have an endless amount of patience for certain things. Yet other things, I can drive myself crazy. I'm catching myself all the time in old patterns of expectations. I'm definitely a fixer, not as much a planner. And being stubborn, I tend to need to hear things multiple times before they get through my thick skull, even though I know what I'm hearing is true.
The book is better than I thought it would be. I am finding that I have to read in doses, and put it down to fully absorb what I just read. It's not a fly-through quick read. And much of it hits home and makes me emotional. Uncomfortable. Exposed. Hard to look at those things sometimes, and realize how much there is to learn.
H is very quiet and distant. And I'm letting him be. He has been since the bad news (for him), about the closing being moved up, and he was upset but made sure to let me know "but it's not you". The reality is setting in that our house is going away. It's the biggest and most significant symbol of our dreams, now destroyed. Other things from our old life have already disappeared one by one. Our lives as we knew them are over. He is going to be on his own. I will not be right up the street. His adult kids will be out as well. This has to be scary for him since he has never lived alone. Although we S in April, I don't think being separated is what he thought it would be. I don't think his apartment will be the bachelor party-pad he originally envisioned. But he has to figure this out. Or not. I'm letting the consequences of his choices just be what they are. It's very hard for me. As you said, job, hour by hour, minute by minute, I'm fighting my instincts. I'm not fixing or rescuing. But I have the urge.... Fighting hard.
It's crazy about the patience. I'm the same way...I'm patient with my kids at work (and they really know how to push buttons), I'm patient with my kids, but with Clark and this sitch, patience went out the window!
I have to take the book in sections also. It's tough reading and realizing the things we do and the people we have become. You'll get stronger realizing your faults and then fixing them for yourself.
Trying not to fix WAS is SO hard! I'm a fixer by nature and career!
Yes, Ats.... Patience is the lesson that has me saying, "Ok, ok, God, you got me. All the way down to the floor. Not on my knees, but laying on my back. Looking up. I'm listening and learning."
Soooo.... If anyone would like a lesson in PURSUIT, I'm apparently a master.
Wow. Humbling book. Page 194 "The degree of pain a pursuer will feel will be proportionate to how extreme a pursuer she is."
Degree of pain compared to my "extreme"...haha! That's funny. Current Level=Midieval Torture Chamber.
I am convinced that I absolutely have to change this for myself, regardless of H or our M. I don't want this. I don't want to BE this.
GAL for me is going to be tough. Easier when I land a new fabulous job....I'll have more new distractions. But emotionally, to not be dependent on anyone....that's gonna be my Mt. Everest.
Today I'm sitting quietly. By choice. I'm in a pretty good place, emotionally. The feelings of fear, urgency, insecurity, disparity, and overall "neediness" are starting to wane.
Here is what I still know today:
1. I'm pretty awesome.
2. I'm worthy of being happy.
3. My kids are growing into some amazing young adult-like beings.
4. The sun is shining.
5. My rent is paid.
6. My dog is a spaz.
7. Nothing h does or says matters at all, because he's absolutely crazy and it's obvious because he doesn't want to be married to me right now, and, well....refer to #1.
New to the list:
8. God is working on me, and today I have a broader sense of the person I want to be.
9. God is working on my H, and it is obvious, strange, and beautiful. I'll explain later.
10. Whether or not my M survives, I will be more than just ok. I will be better. Either way, I'll be better. In other words, the M has no real impact on my ability to grow.
H and his kids are going to start moving out of the house in a few days. H's adult kids secured an apartment yesterday. Things are moving fast.
H asked me to come over last evening, and see if there is anything in the house that I want. H said he didn't want to throw anything away without first asking me. I decided to go.
WHAT WAS DIFFERENT: (Whether it's a sign of growth, or just good timing, I'll take it as a positive.)
This time, I wasn't nervous about seeing him. I didn't go with a desperate sense of clinging to what "was". I didn't feel I needed to overthink my appearance, my words, or my body language. I didn't hope he would hug me or kiss me, or want to ML. I didn't need him to compliment me, or ask me anything about my day at all. I didn't have an agenda. I didn't care whether he told me about his mood, his feelings, his apartment, his work, his kids, or even if he had a gf for that matter. That's just it. It didn't matter. I won't go so far as to say I'm detached. But I was very calm, confident, and fearless. Not arrogant or confrontational, that's not even in me. But somewhat removed from feeling. A little disconnected. I don't know if it's healthy, or if I'm shutting down emotionally, too. All I know is it's different.
I looked at H differently. I listened differently. It seemed the same as I would listen to a coworker talk about their personal life. I felt empathetic, but that it wasn't my life being affected by the events. It shocked me, actually. I am a little worried that I'm falling out of love.
As a side note, I don't particularly like this about myself, but I do have a need to pointlessly analyze H. I think uR is right, that it's likely a part of my process in getting to acceptance. I can feel that I am getting there, though. Especially after last night.
We did not have any R talk at all. I didn't realize this until I was home. Big positive.
I will post more details of last night, but I'm still sorting it out, and letting it sink in. I like that I was able to apply what I've read and learned, and it is helping me make sense of things so I can move forward.
I'm so much closer to being detached and accepting of this mess as it is today.
Journaling (I'm sorry this is so long....yikes! If you're following, grab a beverage. I should have added commercial breaks, or at least a good half-time show.)
Mind dump. No worries, vets. I got this.
I'll start this journaling with the acknowledgement that I now know I can't fix H. I noticed that I'm no longer trying. Not because I gave up, not because I don't want him "fixed", but because I can love him enough to let him learn things his own way, not mine.
First half:
When I got to the house, H answered the door. He had been napping for several hours yesterday, and he looked bad...very run-down. He hadn't shaved. His posture was rounded. His eyes were droopy. He wasn't trying to look like "the Player" at all. He was not even trying to "fake" happiness to me.
We walked through the house. H was looking down a lot. H told me about his kids' apartment, where it was, what it looked like, how he helped them fill out paperwork, etc. H said they were so excited to be going out on their own.
One of the major M issues we had, was regarding H S21. For years, H avoided dealing with S21 major behavioral, developmental, and emotional issues (before my time) and S21 newly diagnosed learning disability, out of H past guilt. I didn't know this existed until we became a blended family. Our MC always said that "H has got to deal with his r with his son." H negative feelings were frequently projected onto me, and our MC said we would not be able to reconcile until H can come to terms with his past as a young father.
Yesterday, H became extremely emotional as he told me all about how he was helping to teach and launch his kids out into the world. This was so HUGE for him to be able to do, and I can't even write all the ways H was describing. H kids were, at one time, out of his life for years, and lived in a high-conflict-drama-abusive household. They came back around after we were married. H carried so much guilt and feelings of failure for years, and it clearly took it's toll on all of us. Last night, H broke down hard as he told me that finally he can rest, knowing they are starting their lives on their own. Especially after such troubled a history.
When we S, and my kids and I moved out of the house, I left with the mistaken idea that H and I would have a break from the stress and be able to work on our M. Obviously, H had different ideas, as there was an ow I didn't know about.
I told our MC at the time last April, that I knew I needed to remove my kids from the abuse, and remove myself as a distraction, so H could focus on his r with S21. MC was floored that I was willing to move out, rather than insist that S21 be the one to go. I said to MC, all that would create is more resentment toward me. Why would I want that? There was zero potential for success in that option. Yes, H should have recognized and put his wife ahead of his S21 abusive behavior. But this had been going on too long, and that wasn't going to happen. Without even knowing about MLC, I knew H wasn't behaving rationally. I asked H to leave with S21 at one point. H refused. The only thing I could control was what I was going to do about it. So I stepped aside.
Well, it happened. They have come so far in their r and S21 development into a man. S21 and I long reconciled our differences, back when h had ow in mid summer. I look back now, and through all the crazy of the past months, at least for S21 and H, the best thing ....happened. I'm still processing this fact, because it was IMO, one of the biggest hurdles in our M. The changes in S21 are significant.
Another thing that wouldn't have happened if I stayed, is that H D19 moved into the house. H was able to work through things with her, too. Not done, not a healthy r and still completely dysfunctional, but definitely progress, and definitely better. H kids would not have come together and found an apartment together without having the experience with their dad this past summer, the good, bad, and ugly of it.
Their growth had to happen, and I had to get out of the way. That was never about me. But my M was certainly destined to fail if this didn't happen.
Before I go on, please allow me to defensively justify my fixation....lol. I reiterate that I'm just journaling, and I like to study the patterns. I am intrigued by this process. I needed to read everything when I first came on this board. I'm ok....No 2x4's needed. My patience and clarity have surfaced. 2nd Half
All night, I just listened. This next part was hard. H didn't come out and say the words, "I have a problem" or "I need help" or "I can see the problem is me". But he did say he has not been feeling well, not been sleeping well, and he knows something needs to change. (He clearly doesn't know where to look yet, but I'm letting him figure that out). He said he's going to schedule an appointment with dr, to reevaluate his AD. Although he looked more depressed than I've ever seen him, he said he doesn't feel that he is super depressed. He said it's not like he can't get out of bed, but he doesn't feel anything at all. He said things that should excite him, don't get him excited. He said he's missing passion. He gave me examples. Now, he has said this before. In fact, at first BD, when he said he knew something was wrong. But he has a deeper sense of it, and he seemed scared. H said he also needs to recheck his T levels. His last bump was in July, and his number was a third of where it should be. He was very open about his concerns with his health. I doubt he has anyone else that he talks to about this.
Will there be a magic pill to cure his pain? Of course not. He is still looking externally for a fix to his problems. He seems to be slower, though. Since we had been communicating much this week, it doesn't appear h has been actively dating or seeking to date lately. This can cycle back, I am aware. But for now, this is where it is.
There were issues at H work this past week that were extremely stressful, and H told me of several, possibly spun, stories. H body is having physical reactions to stress. Skin reactions, sinus, muscle aches and stiffness, not sleeping, and his eyes hurt. I feel for him, but I don't feel I need to fix him.
There was a lot of talking about his dad and stepdad. And things H now observes in them, but he said he didn't think of it growing up. Behaviors, patterns, anger, discipline, things that bothered H.... I didn't really know what it was about, but it just let him talk and didn't interfere. Just validated as a friend.
H told me these things over dinner, and then we went back to house and snuggled next to each other and just listened to music for about 2 hours. It was not a romantic snuggle, and nothing physical happened. H didn't even try. (Another sign of depression, I believe). It was like friends. H rambled all night long. About nothing. About everything. Not about us at all. It was like listening to a high school kid talk sometimes, about a rock band, or a concert he went to. Some of it was talking about his plans of selling some things and buying other things. He caught himself rambling, and apologized. Often. H categorized this visit as "2 adults who were just not wanting to be alone and keeping company."
Yep, uR, I was the evening-bandaid. It's ok, though. I knew this at the time. I will not allow myself to live as the bandaid after he moves. I am pulling away. I felt very disconnected, and kept noticing my feelings. I can let him go.
For the vets who have been helping me get past this recent turmoil, I know I still have a long road. When H moves, I feel the transition will be natural for me to let go. That these last days in our house are baby steps toward that transition. I am preparing for it. The hardest part for me will be him reaching out, and for me to not be there so readily. That is a fine line, and a boundary I have yet to set.
I know he needs to live alone, and I can see he is beginning to think. I have to get out of his head and allow him to do this. He may come back. He may not. He has to do this without me. He just has to. I've got this now.
God is working. I can see it in H. It's obvious in the changes of H words, appearance, and thoughts. It's strange to observe someone so lost as they figure out something they have within. It's beautiful to see, even through the pain, that God is here this whole time, and this is so much bigger than what's in my own little bubble of a world.
I'm going to be great. I love this gift of waking up, and seeing things differently.
Today I'm still. I'm letting the detachment settle in. I've turned a corner.
No 2x4's from me. I know you know that I understand the need to analyze, digest and journal. The trouble comes when you live there. As long as you see that you shouldnt, that's what's important.
So, the patience and clariyy thing....will be an ongoing exercise for some time for you.
Some good stuff happened for him with the relationship with his children. He is seeing some stuff regarding his family, also, which is great.
He still has a long road ahead of him. It is going to be real bumpy at times. Nothing you can do about that, though.
Ok, I wouldnt say you were a bandaid. You were a friend. Yes, it will be a fine line. As you detach more and more, it will become easier to just live you life and allow him to live his.
So, I would like to talk some about you. You are starting to see some stuff about yourself. What are some things you are doing to help understand why you behave as you do? What are some ways you can begin to change those behaviors if you choose to?
Can you tell us some about your childhood. I really would like to hear more about you.
Oh, thank you, uR... Your response is important to me.
My childhood.... Hmmm. In a nutshell, I thought at the time it was great. I still think it was pretty good. Growing up, Mom was a doting, perfectionist neat freak, very loving, very worried about outward appearances. Dad, the most brilliant, loving and giving alcoholic with a sense of humor, who never felt he was good enough for my mom....yeah. One brother, 2.5 years older, who would have preferred to remain an only child. He was a gorgeous, genetically gifted, but crabby baby. I came along, and bounced, danced, and smiled my way through hearts. Lots of attention from dad and mom. Mom now says she overcompensated for brother's inborn unhappiness by never confronting anything negative with him. Dad just didn't get him, and bonded more with me.... I hated knowing I was the favorite, felt guilty, and pretty much gave my brother everything I had, deeming him either more worthy, or more in need. He was usually happy with just money. We actually got along very well for siblings. We giggled, played games, had tons of creative fun, as long as I did as he wanted. I thought he was awesome, but I also feared him. He had a temper. He was jealous of me and I knew it. I downplayed my life because of it. How am I so far? A hot mess?
Here is what I know about me:
I'm a recovering people-pleaser. The thought of disappointing anyone was my biggest fear growing up. I cried easily. I never got in trouble because I feared the look of disapproval on my parents' faces. I always wanted to help and fix things of which I had no business. I still tend to own other people's problems, and often feel responsible for others' happiness and/or unhappiness. I need to learn differentiation. I am a codependent enabler. I love being loved, and giving it. I love hard and deep. I hurt equally as I love. When I sense someone is unhappy, I can, at times, feel it is my job to try and make them happy. I do know, it isn't my job, but this is my instinct. I am very intelligent in some areas, and absolutely clueless in other areas. I sometimes feel that I need to perform to be accepted, but I have noticed that being myself is usually accepted and appreciated more than my performance. I'm a work in progress, for sure.
Ick. Thought vomit.
Dad, the most brilliant, loving and giving alcoholic with a sense of humor, who never felt he was good enough for my mom.
And your brother....
I thought he was awesome, but I also feared him. He had a temper. He was jealous of me and I knew it. I downplayed my life because of it. How am I so far? A hot mess?
Seems like a pattern that would lead you to relationships with depressive and/or alcoholic partners???
Kml, yes...
Although, H has never been a drinker. From what I see now, he still isn't.
But, the depression? Definitely. Both H and xh suffer depression, although I wasn't able to recognize it for what it was at the time. I must be comfortable around that, or familiar, at the least.
Also a recipe to try to be the fixer, I suppose.... Clearly it's working well for me.
Mm mm shining sounds like we are twins.
Depressed partners who take no responsibility for their actions. Mmmmm well h would be strike to.
H1 was so depressed before I left he didn't leave the bed or the couch for a month, unless i forced him. Afterwards he talked about funeral arrangements death hanging himself etc.
So far all blokes I've been attracted to are wash outs, either as above too much baggage or too young or too something.
Alone is looking a good option.
GG, isn't it interesting...there are so many people living with and hiding their depression. Or we could be just magnets to them.
At my age, everyone has baggage, I imagine. I don't think there is anything wrong with baggage, as long as it gets unpacked.
You? A hot mess? Far from it. You are extremely insightful, S. Looking within is not fun. But man, what it can bring..
Being someone who likes to understand stuff, I have been curious why I feel a connection and thought I recognized some signs...my mom was an alcoholic, and the people pleaser thing and some other stuff.
So, you said you tend to own other people's problems, and often feel responsible for others' happiness and/or unhappiness. I understand that feeling. I used to feel it. I dont anymore. At least I try not to anymore. We are always works in progress.
It is tied into all the other stuff. You equating approval with love. The thing I figured out was if I own other people's stuff, I am doing them a huge disservice. If I took on other people's problems or feel responsible for their happiness, it is a terrible burden on me and it robs them of feeling all of life's moments...good and bad.
Nothing wrong with loving to be loved and giving it - nor is loving hard and deep or hurting deeply.
We sometimes learn that certain feelings are wrong. But I think one feels how they do. There arent wrong feelings, but, there can sometimes be wrong reactions.
I have learned that I am only responsible for my feelings. I cannot change someone else's nor should I. Each of us have a right to feel however we do. Each of us deserve to be allowed to experience happiness and sadness and joy, and heartache.
So, we do what we know, until we get better tools. Then, when we know better, hopefully we do better. We should always be works in progress.
Thank you for sharing all of that, S. Tough stuff, this. You are doing great.
uR, now you have me curious.... I really wish my brain had an "off" switch.
I was wondering about the signs you may have recognized. Also, I picked up on the connection early, and the "some other stuff" comment has my attention. I believe you wrote that before, but I was guessing you would have shared if you felt it was right.
I do equate approval with love. It sounds so needy...lol. I guess it is. I have become my dog.
Since you have "armed" me with this perspective....that I am potentially doing a disservice by owning others' stuff, and possibly even robbing them of feeling.... I am able to see it differently. That's exactly the view that will get me over this pattern. It has already helped me, little by little, allow H the space to go on his journey.
I have lots more "stuff" that made me the way I am....not all best for this forum, probably. I think the early years set the stage for the rest, anyway.
Turn that brain off....LOL!
I just saw what we children of alcoholics seem to have in common...the wanting approval, the feeling responsible for others happiness, etc.
But it is your sense of humor that I was also drawn to. I have gone through some tough stuff in my life. My sense of humor got me through a lot of it. Some people think I find humor in the strangest things....;).
I also wanted approval. I know why...because I didnt get it from the person I wanted it from the most...mommy.
I have learned my worth through all of this. I have learned that I am the one who determines it. No one can make me feel unworthy but me.
I have also learned that people may approve of me but not love me and the other way around. Either way, I am good with me.
Share as much or as little as you want, S. People on here are very insightful and may help you work through it...or you can choose to work through it yourself.
Either way....as long as you get to where you need to be..thats all that matters.
Aahhhh, yes... The humor. I find it everywhere, too, and I inherited from my dad. My dad was so quick witted. Also inappropriate, lol... I would say he pushed the limits more than he actually crossed them. He would have me cracking up in doctor's office waiting rooms, church, libraries...anywhere we were not supposed to make a scene, he would mumble something quietly, and the giggle fits would start. The most unusual places to laugh were where he brought out his best wit. I find humor in many places others may not agree... I try to dial it back.
Separation of approval and love...that's a biggie for me. I haven't put much thought into it before. Time to wake up to that one, too.
My grandad fought in a war and saw awful things he was the most gentle man.
He coined the term at least in our family god botherers! He said if god wanted to be talked at as much as some do, he would be on earth!
Funny how this thread title was originally about the selfish MLC H, and everything being about "him".... And now it seems to have become about me.
Things were uncomfortably quiet today. Forcing me to do more deep-thinking than I would choose. I'm pretty sick of myself right about now.
I'm a bit down today....sad and a little angry. The sadness is me feeling sorry for myself, because I feel alone and without direction. I'm working on defining some new goals. But I can't complete the dang thoughts. I'm all over the place, jumping between logic and fantasyland. My creative brain can be such a big pain in the a$$. My anger today started as a big "f u H". Then it turned onto me. I'm angry that I'm here again. Alone with the kids. I'm angry that I have to start over.....again. I'm angry that I allowed myself to be lied to. And that I believed this M was "it". I let my guard down, and I trusted. Then I tell myself, I SHOULD be able to trust my H, and I did nothing wrong by trusting. Then I get angry at myself for being angry.
I don't initiate contact, but I'm recognizing how I still manage to pursue H. H has been more distant, quiet....short texts. He keeps reaching out, but fewer and farther between. I have been baby stepping and extending more time between my responses, to try and change my habit of being so "available". It's very challenging for me. I'm still detoxing.
For any psyche-types out there, I was told years ago, and then again today, that for the Myers Briggs personality test... I'm an ENFP. Fantastic.
Who's surprised....??? I know one person who is probably not....
Well Shining- I knew there was something that clicked when you talked about your feelings and approach to things.
I'm an ENFP too- pretty strong in each except for P which is closer to the middle.
The anger- I get it. I don't like when I feel angry but I've been learning to allow myself to feel it so I can move through it more quickly. I also sometimes get into the rut of feeling I do so much and give so much of myself, when will someone want to give to me? Then I get angry at myself too.
You're getting there- I can see the strength in your posts and goals. Sending positive thoughts and permission to feel the yucky ones when you need to.
Interesting, daring.... We are a lovely bunch
. My "P" is lower, too....
H is INFJ. >sigh<.
Sooooo..... In MLC..... Would he be opposite??
You know what? I don't even care. H is a lost fool. I don't even know if he really is worth it, or if I don't want to let him go because I don't like having to work on me. I'm not going to hang onto the anger. I rarely feel it. My mom thinks I should feel MORE angry.
Maybe I'll call it......salty. Yeah....I'm salty today.
I'm catching myself.....My emotions are not wanting to feel this pain and do this work, and my brain is trying to think of a way to avoid it.... Today, I actually found myself thinking about running away. Or just chuck the whole thing and get a D, quickly get into another doomed R so I can relive this all over. That doesn't seem as appealing.... I sure feel myself wanting to escape, though. Or just punch H.
Ok, in my head those were all terrific options. Somehow in words, not so much.
After this wave of 'salty' washes over me, I'll have renewed energy. Right now, it's T-8 days until I'm no longer a homeowner. And that pi$$e$ me off. More destruction being left in the wake of MLC.
Ok, so tomorrow is a new day. I'm going to go from my "scattered showers" of today, to at least, "fair to partly cloudy."
There's always a chance of rain....
Funny how this thread title was originally about the selfish MLC H, and everything being about "him".... And now it seems to have become about me.
Yea, I kinda started that ^^^ because that's where the focus should be.
And yea, I am not surprised by the test result.
I am sorry you are feeling down, S. This really is a rollercoaster. You can be so hard on yourself, my friend. Sometimes you just have to sit with your feelings and not do anything.
You know, the goals can be really simple ones as well as big ones. Like finding one thing in each day where you feel grateful.
I get the feeling angry. Of course you do. This isnt what was supposed to happen and it suckks. Big time.
Be careful, though, to only own your stuff. Be sure they are valid. You could not know he would go into crisis. You couldnt have known he would lie. You should be able to trust your h.
You do pursue him, but, unlearning that is very difficult. It isnt going to happen overnight, Shining. It takes time to change longstanding habits.
I know that you are probably a little scared that he is pulling back. Frightened that he will pull so far back he cant find his way back to you.
But this is what is supposed to happen. You should be figuring out your stuff and so should he. He cant do that looking over his shoulder at you. YOu cant do what you need to do wondering about him.
So, its ok to feel angry, just dont stay there. Its ok to feel scared and confused. It is ok.
As you let go more, you will feel less confused. You will be able to figure out where you want to go, what you want to do.
For right now, just try to be ok with where you are at this moment. I know thats hard for you. But it is necessary.
Small, manageable goals are best right now. Keep busy. Rest. Be kind to yourself.
Let time and space do its thing on him.
I don't initiate contact, but I'm recognizing how I still manage to pursue H. H has been more distant, quiet....short texts. He keeps reaching out, but fewer and farther between. I have been baby stepping and extending more time between my responses, to try and change my habit of being so "available". It's very challenging for me. I'm still detoxing.
For any psyche-types out there, I was told years ago, and then again today, that for the Myers Briggs personality test... I'm an ENFP. Fantastic.
Who's surprised....??? I know one person who is probably not....
[/quote]
Yea, I kinda started that ^^^ because that's where the focus should be.
And yea, I am not surprised by the test result.
Haha....aaaawww, uR... Yep. I'm like that duckling at the back of the line that keeps trying to go it's own way...until mama duck gently nudges it back onto the path.
My anger and being hard on myself are present, but much less today. I think it's just enough to give me the boost of energy I need to move forward.
Yes, I'm scared he's pulling back. I am also glad. I'm starting to want to be away from H. I think I'm struggling to define my future because I'm still having a hard time envisioning it without him. H needs to get out of my head, you're absolutely right. It's holding me back.
I don't want to be held back.
Good morning, Universe! I promised myself to wash away the anger of yesterday, and today I'm squeaky clean. I'll get dirty again, but that's ok. It still washes off.
Plus, I read something awesome this morning that didn't have a name to credit. So I'm stealing this:
"Lighthouses don't go running all over and island, looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining."
So, just stand there, Shining.
Wow- what an awesome quote- that actually gave me chills.
No saving our crazy H's even though it takes all our might to fight trying- we got this- I'm standing there shining with you Shining!
Shining, I dont know what the deal is with me leaving your stuff on my posts to you. I am getting old. LOL!
Love the lighthouse quote.
When this first happened for me, I couldnt believe it. I thought, what the heck happened? When did my life become this?
At first I blamed myself. I could have been better, done better. Then I realized I could have been perfect and this would have happened.
Even when I first realized that, I still tried to fix it. I mean, that's what I do. It was my role my whole life. I was good at it. I knew how to do it. It was my comfort zone.
And yea, that backfired. So, I began to really think about it all. I knew, without a doubt, that him becoming someone completely opposite of who he was had to have been because of a breakdown or crisis. There was no other logical explanation for the transformation.
So, I read and I talked to people and I researched. I found it all said the same thing in different ways. This was his crisis, borne out of years of not addressing stuff from his early life. He hadnt learned how to cope. When things got bumpy in life, he had no clue what to do.
Through my anger and sadness, I saw his pain. Unbearable pain. I had to take myself out of it. I had to figure out that it wasnt about me. I dont have that kind of power.
Imagine for a moment, feeling as if your life is out of control. You are deeply unhappy. You dont know why. You just know that you want the hurting to stop.
You try everything you can, and it is still there. You become someone else. It is still there. You lash out at your spouse, alienate your children, act out, regress and still the deep sadness continues.
They feel as if they are swimming in a lake of mud with 100 pounds on their backs. Trying to get out, flailing about, unable to reach the shore.
I know their actions are devastating. I do. I know there are times when we are so angry with them, so disappointed, so deeply hurt.
But I tried to remember his pain, too. It allowed me to give him what he needed....space, time, no pressure.
They need to walk their journey on their own. It is the only way they can get to the other side.
But as we allow them to do this, we, too go on a journey. We go through the stages of grief. Hopefully, we grow, we change.
There are no shortcuts here. Nothing to make it go faster.
But we can make it easier - by forgiving ourselves for whatever we did or didnt do in the marriage because there was no intent to cause harm. We can forgive ourselves for not realizing what was happening or for not seeing this coming.
You have to work through each part, S. But ultimately, acceptance and forgiveness is what sets you free.
We just do the best we can. Sometimes life just throws us curves. We can strike out or swing. Our choice. Always.
So, be the lighthouse, S. Be your best you. Then either way, you are ok.
It doesn't matter how many times I read your posts UR, they are still so touching and helpful. What a gift you are.
There are no shortcuts here. Nothing to make it go faster.
Hmmm, sounds like a challenge to me!
We are so similar in many ways, uR. After I moved out, and we went to our one counseling session (before I knew of ow, and when I "thought" we were doing this to get closer, haha), I made a list of EVERYTHING I DID WRONG. It was 7 pages on a legal pad. I scoured old emails from h and listed every complaint he had over the past 2 years. I wrote a 3 page apology to his son for my side of our differences. I stopped drinking (never was alcoholic, actually, but didn't want the question) I lost weight, since h said I was too fat. I fixed everything on the list. (Ok, I'm still working on the pores) Then I tried to fix h. Yep, backfired.
Then I read everything about MLC, separation, relationships, communication, stepchildren, boundaries, and some others I can't think of. Way over-did it out of desperation.
It did help me get past the initial phase where I couldn't breathe, had anxiety attacks, and felt I was actually dying the most painful death imaginable.
I tried to look up your story, uR, is it still on the board? If not, please share as much as you're comfortable sharing. I'm very curious. I realize there are differences in us, but I do want to know more about your experience with this.
I have had several name changes on here and a lot of my early stuff is gone, unfortunately.
I was married for 25 years. I have one son who is now 23. My BD was seven years ago. I vowed back then, because of the incredible gift of this forum and the amazing people on it, to pay it forward.
While we had our issues, as everyone does, there was no indication of what was going to happen in my marriage.
He stood on the steps one day and told me he didnt want to be married anymore. I panicked. Did all the stuff we arent supposed to do. Reacted as you did, pretty much.
Til I found this place. But I came kicking and screaming into DB. COuldnt get my mind around it at first. When I finally did, it changed my life.
I found out he had an ow. She was his first GF from 30 years earlier.
He stayed in my bed for 9 months, in our home for a year and a half. It was difficult living with him. He wasnt a nasty MLCer, but, he was a particularly crazy one. He is actually kind of a legend around here. LOL!
He had amassed a huge amount of debt. I had no choice but to file. I put it off until I couldnt any longer. That decision, along with some of the stuff he did like invading our retirement funds, has devastated me financially.
He did some terrible things during all this. Truthfully, the least of which was the affair. That was a wish to go back in time to his first real love and to relive his youth.
Dont get me wrong, that is a terrible thing, to cheat on your spouse. It broke my heart and hurt me to my core. I am not in anyway minimizing its effect.
But, it was a different kind of hurt than the calculating things that he did to ruin me financially and how much he hurt our son.
He had to do things in specific ways that required he really think about them before actually putting it into action.
I db'd my marriage. He wanted to come back. But he is still in the tunnel. I call him a tunnel hugger. It was too hard for him to look within and do the work.
When I see him he is still a shell of a man. When he smiles, it doesnt reach his eyes. There is no laughter, no lightness about him. He still looks lost. As far as I know, after the initial ow, there has been no one else.
I think about how much he lost in the search for happiness and I feel so sorry for him that he was never able to look inside to find it.
I forgave him a long time ago. He knows it. He doesnt understand why I have.
I still wish with all my heart that he finds his way. No longer does that wish include me, but, I do hope he finds a way to some happiness.
Everyone deserves that. Everyone.
I believe completely in this process, Shining. I believe it is the best chance one has to save their marriage. I also believe it has saved me.
Feel free to ask me anything you want to know. I am happy to share what I have been through, my journey and what I have learned.
Wow, uR. Thank you for sharing. It sure sounds like "tunnel hugger" is a fitting term. I wish your old posts were still around. I would love to have read them and witness the growth you experienced from the beginning.
Another thing we share, is the view of ow. It absolutely ripped me apart to find out, but for whatever reason, after a few weeks, that fact alone wasn't keeping me up at night. I was able to categorize the bandaid aspect and move on...so I could find other areas to get stuck in, lol....
Did you work outside the home? Did you have to find another job? Since I now have to find a new job, I wondered if you had found yourself in this position, too.
I read the new book by Steve Harvey today, lol. I'm having to start over in so many ways. He's just funny. But, I found it an interesting book to help me set goals while considering who I really am, and utilizing the unique gifts I have been given. I've not been living my best self for several years. It's time I do that for me. I did it once, a long time ago, and I didn't even know it. I miss me.
How was your h a legend? I'm up for some crazy stories....I'm sensitive to h pain, but I have to find humor in the crazy to keep my sanity. My h mean, but it didn't last. He got really crazy. Now he's just sad.
How did your son handle everything? My D13 is h favorite, and the text and talk some. My boys are 16, 18 & 18. They won't speak to h, but he isn't their dad, either. They did call him "dad". In fact, they used to ask when we were engaged, "is this what a real dad is like?" He was awesome. They learned so much. They bonded instantly, and they loved h very much. But when h son came to live with us, as soon as he moved in, h changed. It was bizarre. Like all the old rules went out the window, along with any structure or consequence. Then the blaming started. They could do no right. Out of nowhere. Our fights escalated. The boys couldn't handle h 180 personality flip, and the ow was a complete a$$hole move and deal breaker for them. They're very protective of me.
This is a story that recently came up.....bear with me.
There was a trip I once went on with H and his family. The location was rather remote. We had to drive for 2 hours from a main airport, to a smaller airport, and then fly again to the destination. Some of the family were staying for different lengths of time, and we had multiple vehicles that were rented to get from one airport to the other. Our car was driven by H older brother. H rode in the passenger seat, and I in the back (H gets motion sickness in back.....)
Our rental car remained at the small airport, dirt parking lot, for one week. When the week was over, and it was time to drive back to the main airport, we made sure to leave plenty of time for the drive. We grabbed coffee and some road trip snacks in town, did some souvenir shopping....you know, stuff people do.
Then we set out onto the long, straight, country road. As with all road trips, there comes a time when the liquids settle, and H needed to make a "pit-stop". (You lucky men who can stand at the side of a road and do your business....). So BIL pulls over to the side of he road, onto the dusty shoulder lined with tall grass and trees.
As the vehicle stops, we looked out the passenger window, and suddenly there is a swarm of bees! Thousands! H is deathly allergic to bees, and I've carried an epi-pen for years. We thought, "Wow! We must have stopped right by some trash, or some kind of beehive."
BIL said, "Let's drive further down and pull over somewhere else." So we did. About a mile down the road, BIL pulls over again, and sure enough, the same thing happened!!!!! Still with the bees!! Completely surrounding all windows of the car now! Could there really be this many bees in this town? I've never seen anything like it!
Yeah.... We finally realized the beehive was actually traveling with us, attached to the undercarriage of the rental car. It must have happened while the car was parked during that week.
So we drove faster in a futile effort to "shake" the beehive loose, hoping it would drop onto the road. BIL started weaving the car back and forth. So now, I'm almost car-sick. And, as you can guess, that didn't work.
Finally, we decide to stop at a gas station. We couldn't pull up to the pumps, or anywhere near other folks. So we parked off to the side. As soon as he car stopped, we were surrounded. Bees everywhere.
H can't get out and risk getting stung. A trip to the local hospital would not have been good in this town. And....H still has to pee.
Now, in ANY OTHER FAMILY, things would have been different. Logically, my 6'6" BIL might have taken care of things.....logically. Reasonably. Expectedly, even. Nope. Now, I'm no damsel in distress-type, but come on.
So who solves the problem? You guessed it. Shining.
I took the men's jackets and hoodies out of their bags, wrapped my entire body with clothing, covered my face with a bandana, covered my eyes with sunglasses, and made a quick escape out the door without letting any bees inside the car. That was talent, right there.
I'm pretty sure I looked like I was about to rob the gas station, as I'm running, with my face masked, sunglasses on, over-sized hoodie covering my head, toward the gas station entrance. I ignored the strange looks, since I was on a mission. I went into the building, and purchased 6 cans of bee killer spray. (I'm sorry, bee lovers. It had to be done.). I went back out, and sprayed the car, the grill, and the undercarriage. The bees went everywhere. Then they were gone. It took about an hour.
H complained because he still had to pee. Gosh, I hope you weren't too uncomfortable.
Why was BIL just sitting there? It was a little bit of an "out of body" moment of wtf... But, it was also a big clue, wasn't it....
Soooooo......let's take a brief inventory, shall we?
Who was the rescuer? Who was the fixer? Who just did what needed to be done? And, more importantly, who knew I would?
Yeah. That had clearly been established for a while, huh....
We missed our plane. Had to stay in town for a night and it cost us a pretty penny.
H brought up this story last weekend. We actually laughed about it. H laughed, but not as he normally would...more of a slight chuckle and shaking his head. He said he couldn't believe I would do that for him. He said if I had just sat there a little longer, BIL would have eventually gotten out and dealt with it. But BIL is known for doing as little as possible, and BIL out-waited me.
In other words, if I didn't rush in to fix the problem, someone else would have. And it was H telling me this.
What does that tell me?
Another point to this story - why did your husband LET you go out there, instead of telling his brother to do it? Doesn't sound like your H exhibited any chivalry towards you or protective concern. Telling.
Yeah, kml, little did I know the me-me-me selfishness part had already begun....that's where my denial came in very handy. I thought it was weird, but shrugged it off. As usual.
H was always allowing BIL to under-function.... The while family dynamic is set up that way. No accountability there. For some reason, BIL is the "poor me" of the bunch, and it pays off. I always thought I had the best of the 5 siblings...haha, joke's on me, now. The other 4 are still together with their spouses.
Hey S, first of all, the bee story....yep, would have been me running into that store.
Here's something for you. In my family, they call me...Death Angel. Yea, you know why? Because everytime someone passed away...my mother, my father, my father-in-law..no one wanted to take care of the details. So, I went through all their personal belongings. I planned the funerals. I even cleaned out my FIL's whole house for sale because my xh and his sister couldnt do it....well, wouldnt do it, really.
Anyway, as you go through this, things come to light that you never really saw before. It's just good to rememnber to look at things as objectively as you can because you dont want to rewrite history.
So, a little more about me. My childhood was really, really tough. Horrible, really. My mother was a raging alcoholic. She was a very angry woman. I realize now why she was. But back then, as a little girl, I had no idea.
She was angry with my father because he didnt make any money. Angry with his family because they hated her. Angry with her family because they had abused her.
I have siblings, but, I was her whipping post. The more I tried to be good and perfect, the more she lashed out. I didnt figure that out either - that my being good in school made her feel less than. And that me trying to do everything right so she would love me, made her feel incapable. Of course, I know now it had to do with her low self esteem.
So, I became someone who wanted to please. I became someone who always did the right thing. No matter how hard I tried, though, I just couldnt get her approval. I raised my parents and my sister.
When I met my xh, I was 18 years old he was 21. He was mature and responsible. I guess I felt that finally there was someone who could take care of me.
It was also around the time when I was getting out into the world. I had been very shy, but, I was finding my voice. I started to feel a little better about myself.
I married young. Looking back now, there were some signs I missed. I was so happy to have someone looking out for me, that I didnt see that he also needed to be in control.
So, I started going back into the role I knew so well. Fixing things, trying to be perfect, looking for approval.
My xh needed things done a certain way. I felt like I couldnt do them well enough. I became very small.
My son has a lot of health issues. So, that coupled with how my marriage was, and not dealing with my childhood, led to a depression.
I was a fully functional depressive. You wouldnt have known it had you met me.
When bomb date happened, I was a mess.
My therapist tells me to this day what I was like my first visit with her. She said I walked in, squeezed myself into the corner of the couch, slumped my shoulders and said it's all my fault. All of it. I deserved this. I dont blame him. I listed all the things I did wrong. I told of all the reasons why he should have done this. Man, that poor girl.
So, I found db and I found this amazing therapist and I worked really, really hard. I wouldnt give up. I knew that I had to become whole again and grow.
My journey from there to here is an incredible one. I had to knock down my demons one by one. There was no choice. My son deserved a mother who was ok. I deserved to feel good about me.
There were some very special people on here who would challenge me and push me. They had a tough job. But they wouldnt give up. I thank God for them everyday. My therapist, who is my angel, saw me. What a gift that was...to really be seen.
So, I came to know, without a single doubt, that I was worthy and lovable. I came to understand that the mirrors I had, my mother and my xh....were wrong in a lot of ways. So, I got some new mirrors. I watched how people responded to me. I listened and I worked to embrace what people saw in me.
It was really hard to come from that scared little girl who felt like everything was her fault because she wasnt good enough.
But I made it. This was a journey I was meant to go on. While it was the toughest thing I have ever had to do, it was the most important.
As I wrote, my son had health issues. So, I worked in a school so that I could pick him up when I needed to and would be home when he was. It didnt pay anything, but, I loved it.
I am still in that job, though I shouldnt be. I stayed way longer than I should because of how much it means to me. I have to leave now as they have cut my hours so they dont have to give me medical. Hard stuff.
My son was devastated when this all started. My xh and I dont have much family, so it was always the three of us. My xh and I didnt fight much and were always very affectionate. In fact, the day before the BD the two of us were cuddled together on the couch, our son on the other one, watching a movie.
My son says he felt like the floor out from under him. His dad moved 2 hours away and then 5 hours. It was really hard on my son. He wound up failing in high school and dropping out of college. He lost his footing for a long time. He is trying to find his way now.
He and his dad are making their way back to a good relationship. I have never said one bad thing about his father. I always encouraged them to be together. Their relationship isnt what it once was, nor what it could be, but I am happy I caused no harm to it. It is their to forge.
I always kept my xh in the loop about our son's health, til he turned 18. Then it was no longer my place.
We have an unusual relationship. We dont talk often at all. But there is contact. I am feeling like he wants more recently, but, who knows?
Ok, just so you get to know the real me, when my xh was still at home, and I had gotten on my feet emotionally, I decided that since he wouldnt leave, I was going to have fun with things.
His cell phone was always attached to his face. So day, when he was in the shower, I took it. I had made clothes for it. I put it out on a plate and sat at the table. Xh comes in and says, what's going on? I said, well, I thought, since your phone is always around, I'd invite it to dinner. So, I dressed it up for the occasion.
.
As I said, he is a legend in these parts. He and I have had some conversations that I have posted that were so bizarre it would make your head spin. LOL!
Your story, uR, I'm just stunned. Thank you. It's a wonder MLC didn't come after you, too. I hope your son is well. I LOVE what you did with the phone.... Yep. My kind of fun. Now I FOR SURE want to hear more....
I have more history I'll share soon.
I'm doing ok overall today. Trying to stay positive. Bouncing between sitting still and keeping busy. Identifying some things I need to feel, work on, work through, and do, both professionally and internally. I'm not at the "how" part. Still the "what". And I'm trying not to run away from the discomfort. I'm breaking down more lately, but it's in shorter, less deep episodes. Not sure if that's anything. It just is.
My S18 x2 and I had a great conversation yesterday, and worked out some details and plans for their futures. We had fun with the Myers Briggs test lol. I thought it would be a fun tool, to use as a guide and get them thinking. We're all forced to rethink our lives, in many ways, through this crisis. The test is subjective, I'm not a professional, and it was as fun as a board game. Their lives are limitless. I cautioned them not to label or box themselves into anything. But they were amazed at the insight. I think the tests were spot on. Their gears were turning.
Communication has gotten more dark with H since this past weekend. More things from conversation are popping into memory. He talked so much, it's hard to remember it all.
H told me he was having so many physical issues, skin, allergy, muscle aches, back pain, and also mentioned his libido was low.... I thought that was odd. I really think he's at a low. Texting has gotten sparse and short-worded the past several days. I've been distancing very well. Too well, perhaps.
I didn't respond to several, 4-5 texts yesterday that H sent at 2:00 and 6:00. They weren't in the form a question, just info and reminders about house closing date, time, location, and to change my address for a couple of places that send mail to house. I had been gradually increasing response time. It was a 180 for me to just let them go like that. So H texted again at 10:00. "I hope you were not offended. I was just trying to help. Good night."
I responded, "No not offended at all. Thank you for the reminders. Good night."
Then today, H sent "Good morning. Today I have to start moving." Mmmmkay. Not sure what he was looking for, but I don't have it for him. That's for sure. Not my circus, not my monkeys, not my circus, not my monkeys.....
Then he sent another text a few hours later, "how are you." I replied but kept it short. "I'm good."
A few more texts describing his packing and moving details. He seems to be looking for acknowledgement or affirmation. What, exactly, am I supposed to say? How did you envision this going, H? Congrats on destroying everything we worked for? It's bizarre. As if I should be excited for him and his new place. Excited that you checked out of our marriage, and want to date others right now? Excited that you have a bachelor pad and zero other responsibilities living with you? Excited for the mess I'm in financially, and emotionally? Not so much....soooooo crazy.
So now H stopped texting. His energy has got to be going into his move. I'm out of the way. I did a decent job staying dark, and not being available. But I'm sensing anger from H today, or frustration. Even since last night.
CAUTION: Mind reading ahead! (Ok, ok, and behind, and on all sides. It's my process, and it's what I do. I'm getting there.)
I think it's hitting him he will be alone. I think he's overwhelmed and scared. I think he doesn't feel good and doesn't know what to do. I think being distant is freaking him out. I think he seriously expected support from me in this endeavor.
Do I think he's waking up? Not even close. But I think this shock and the huge changes will give him the best chance. I'm losing hope.
The behavior never ceases to baffle me. Oh, YOU'RE inconvenienced now? This isn't fun?? No????
Hey, buddy, you wanted this, remember??
WEll, if you can do it without being overtly snarky, how about responding:
"I'm sure you must be excited, H, to be starting the new life that you wanted"
Shining - my H just moved into an apartment, after living with sister and BIL for one year, plus their dog. Now he is totally alone, and with plenty of time to think and read and look in the mirror. And I think this hit him hard - welcome (back) to a little reality! You may very well be right that he's feeling overwhelmed and scared. It's too bad things have to progress so far before that actually occurred to him. But, it may be the beginning of a turnaround. You never know...
Kml....me??? Snarky?? Lol... Yeah. Funny thing, I'm so brave on this board. I can pretend to be such a total snot. But in real life, naawwww.
I sure could say what you wrote. I've said things pretty close, and not mean. Shook him a bit,actually.
LN, I'm glad your H is starting to see it may not be as great as he thought it would.... I'm really sensing my H is already regretting some, but at same time knowing it has to happen to remove everything that was "us".
It's so silly and illogical. But it's the way it is.
This house thing is another death of sorts. I'll pick up soon.
Hey S, yea, I sometimes wonder why I havent had a crisis. Unfortunately, I just scraped the surface. My life has been a very difficult one for alot of reasons.
I think a large part of why I havent had a MLC is that I had to learn to cope in my childhood or I wouldnt have made it, so, I have pretty good coping skills.
Ok, first of all, the house..I am sorry, S. That is so hard.
Second, figuring out what you need to work on is the hardest part. Once you identify them, you can get a game plan together.
You are still early into this. Perfectly normal to still have periods of sadness.
Now about your h. That mindreading stuff is gonna get ya..LOL!
You wrote you are losing hope. I am concerned about that, for a few reasons. First, there is always hope until you decide there isnt. Second, this is a long, long ride. You are just getting started.
I can see what you are made of, S. You have to take this one day at a time.
Getting upset with you not answering....they do that. Thinking you should be happy for them....they do that, too.
In his crisis mind, it's all about him. He has no clue the impact it is having on you. So, why wouldnt you be happy?
A couple of things....the not answering him needs to eventually happen because you are too busy living your life and you are truly accepting that he has to go through this.
It really is best not to try to figure out his mindset. It is crazy all up in there.
Please dont think that the house and you not answering and him being on his own is going to have a huge impact. It may affect him, but, he still has a lot to work through.
Ok, another story for you. My xh told me he wanted to have a new, exciting life. His ow lived 6 hours away. So, as I began to GAL, I would leave the house and he would be sitting in his recliner. I'd come home, and there he would be. It happened very often.
But one day he left the chair to go to the store. So, I decorated it. When he came back, he said, now what, Ur? I said, "The chair was so happy you werent in it that it threw itself a party."
He told me a couple of months ago, the light went out of his life when I left it. I said, "I didnt leave, you did." To which he replied, "You left, I left, what's the difference?"
Um, ok, then.
Next time I saw him, I gave him a flashlight...so he never had to be in the dark again.
Aaahhhhh... Just returned from my pi$$ed off power-walk and that's EXACTLY what I needed to read to make me laugh.... Omg, uR.... Can you hear me applauding?? The recliner party.... Outstanding.
I'm so glad you didn't have to go through one of these yourself. Clearly, if coping was a sport, you would be a world champion. I'm still at training camp.
Yeah, I hear that I'm early in this. I don't want to believe it. I don't feel early. I've read some stories here that had the WAH back within a year.... I'm not at all thinking that will be me. But I wonder if it's that short for some, perhaps it wasn't the same MLC as my H. And that doesn't matter either because I'm taking a day at a time. It is what it is.
The losing hope part is me wondering how many of them really wake up, and why would mine... I have no plans for dating or D, so that really doesn't matter either.
I think it's the cycling, the sadness of change, even being separated, he was up the road. Now he's ....ok, still up the road, but miles farther. I'm still kicking and screaming and fighting being here. Uuuugggghhhhh.
I think I may need to get out with people. I don't have friends now that are comfortable around me, and I don't care to reach out, all jobless and rejected, and meet new ones. It scares me. I feel weird. But it's time to go back to the Life store.
"A YEAR FROM NOW, YOU WILL WISH YOU HAD STARTED TODAY." -Karen Lamb
Awww... Shining.....
It takes time to feel comfortable. I am still working on that. Big time. The span of feeling good or better will broaden, a little at a time. Before you know it, you will have a few good days in a row and catch you all off guard! Once that kicks in, you will find the inner strength to reach out more and more.
Plus, you are strong, have a great attitude, you're funny... all this give you and advantage. This ride is not for the weak. No matter which direction you head.
I feel ya with the whole... um.... this is like forever... like... enough already.
After awhile, once your mindset changes, you will understand what people mean by this being the beginning. I think that is the stage before real detachment. Like really getting it... you know, like about yourself and all. That this is about you. I think lots of people "get it" but don't "feel it" for awhile. That was me, anyway. Once you are past that point, you realize THAT is all part of the early stages.
The latter stages consist of less ups and downs. They are there, for sure, and can be just as high and low... but again, the "better" times are longer, making it a whole lot easier.
Let me be clear- I am still early into it myself, I guess. Any I am still on an emotional rollercoaster. But..... I'm more settled. That's the gradual process.
The visual you wrote about being further up the road while you are still there kicking and screaming... good call. I was feeling it. Yup... totally what happens. Arrrrrrrgghhhhhh! (OK, now I'm turning into a pirate.)
Anyway, keep your head up, chicky..... you are going to make him regret, regret, regret.... just focus on you.
(Feel free to join me and watch my emotional roller coaster in full swing. It took off today when I wasn't looking... in full speed, with no breaks, and no one at the controls... maybe I won't post tonight. I'm emotionally spent. We shall see.....)
Hi Shining,
My W did kind of the same thing. The first time I had to go to "her" place to pick up D14, she was so wanting to show me around. She was all excited and seemed to want me to be excited for her as well. Oh, yeah, you move 30 miles away, leave me with no money and a 45 min. drive just to see my d14 and I'm supposed to be what? Happy for her? When she comes over to what was once our home and takes things from our 26 years together and gets all excited about where she is going to put this or that in her new place and the "fun" things she did to show off her pictures (pictures of her and our girls where she literally cut me out of the picture!).
They just are so wanting to destroy everything that was once our lives. To totally obliterate our shared past in a (futile) effort to prove to themselves that we WERE the problem all along. Well, once they get what they want, they are going to find that the problem was inside them all along! Of course, they won't admit it. They will keep trying more and different things to "make" the pain go away. Until they may someday realize that we weren't the problem at all. Right now my W isn't feeling the happiness and peace she thought she would as soon as she "got away from" me. So, instead of thinking maybe that wasn't the answer, she thinks the problem is it's because she hasn't totally emptied everything she wants from our home. She feels there is still a "tie" to this home and me and once she is totally done with me and this place she will THEN feel better. I'm sure the next thing will be she isn't all better and happy because the D isn't final yet. Than when that doesn't work it will because of something else that has to do with me. If I were you that's what I would expect from your H as well. Sure he may not be liking the being alone now that he (finally) has what he has wanted, his own place. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if I were you when he finds some way to blame you or your M for it not being the thing that makes him happy.
Maybe the time alone he has with just himself and who he has become will make him start to question his actions, I hope it will. But I also want to warn you that his MLC is still there and if I were you I'd be prepared for more acting out.
Sorry to hear about the house. I know that it feels to me like my W has totally destroyed everything we worked for over the last 21 years including the home we shared. It's so very sad. Also sill and illogical for them to even begin to think that it will make their pain go away!
Nice post, Mighty.
Shining, you are exactly where you are supposed to be. Your feelings...all perfectly normal.
Will he wake up? No way to know.
If you were given a one in a million shot to save your marriage, would you take it?
Here's the thing. This is an amazing opportunity for you. One that you would not have had if this didnt happen.
Put your marriage safely in a box and store in for now.
Take the leap of faith here, my friend.
I will tell you this. No matter what happens, you will not regret that you stood if you do the work.
Thanks, Mighty. I'm sorry to hear you had a bumpy night. I'll watch for your post whenever you're up to it.
Thanks, Matt. Yeah, they're on a destructive mission for sure. Btw, where in TX off of 35 are you? I'm familiar with the area....
I appreciate the support. I'm really not wallowing or moping around. I vent here, and I try to get it out and work on my yucky stuff. But I'll get through this. Whatever the result of the M, I'm going to be even more awesome, and H will be even more sorry, and who knows if that will put us back together or not.
My new word I'm trying on... H is "irrelevant". At least I need to make him that.
Hey Shining- something that may help as you are trying to figure out which
" issues" to process for yourself. My H's counselor had suggested he read these two books last year and for all I know he still hasn't done it, but I got them shortly after BD and worked through them.
Immensely helpful and immensely painful but it got me through some serious emotional work in a shorter time than I think therapy alone would. Plus some very interesting concepts on how/why we choose certain mates.
Titles are:
Keeping the Love You Find
Getting the Love You Want
Both books by Harville Hendrix
The first book is touted for singles but you should still start with it. Very insightful on where childhood wounds occurred in your life and how it impacts current development and relationships. Some people find some of the concepts a bit kooky and I agree, but this really directed my work on myself in a very helpful way.
If you try the books let me know what you think.
On a second note- (((hugs)))
Thanks, uR. I like reading I'm normal and I'm where I'm supposed to be. It helps. <<<. Plus I seem to need the approval. Dangit.
The million in one shot?...ABSOLUTLEY. Yes, yes, yes. I wouldn't have come here otherwise. BUT..... Now it's not about the M as much. I do want it, but at the same time, I can see now, that's not really what I want. Because that didn't work. I want H to be ok. I want to learn from this. I want two whole people to reunite one day, and have a marriage that has been cultured into something great.
If I didn't come here, I would definitely just repeat old patterns going forward, and I'm not doing this again. Ouch. Nope.
I tell myself (and my mom) exactly your words, on purpose, that this is an opportunity, and I have the gift of time to do some great stuff for me. I'm hoping I really believe it soon, and get out there and do it. Detach. GAL.
Keep talking, uR. It's seeping in. I'm getting a ball of fiery energy in my gut. I'm feeling a change is coming soon....in me.
Thanks, daring, I'll check out those books. I may even have one of them.
This is another thing I'm learning about me.... Self inflicted 2x4 coming... Ok, I have been through counseling many times, for different things. Good ones and not so good. I have explored some of my issues, but not all. I have wiggled my way out of some uncomfortable stuff, or shut down, or didn't trust the counselor enough to share, or whatever excuse I choose at the moment to skip stuff. And I don't know what, and I don't know why. I read anything I can get my hands on. I try to apply what I learn. I want to be so independent and figure it out, but I'm not really accountable to anyone now to know if I am doing it...except here
.
I don't trust my instincts right now in choosing an IC. How have any of you all found good ones?
Shining, along the lines of what UR wrote about boxing the marriage up for now here is a poem I found that I read now and then:
The Boxes In The Hall
In every Room of our time together there is a box,
Of memories we shared,
Now is the time to pack away,
With Sadness and with Care.
The first is a simple smile,
When ever I thought of you,
Neatly folded into four,
It's the best that I could do.
Next are all the memories,
Of the times when we were two,
Wrapped with love one by one,
Sealed with tears as glue.
And then there are the butterflies,
I had when you were near,
Now in a cage of sadness,
And locked up with a tear.
Next are the times we kissed,
Each one wrapped with a sigh,
Placed next to a rolled up list,
Of all the times I've asked my self why.
Now to pack are the pieces of my heart,
Gathered in a pile,
Each one wrapped up tenderly,
And placed next to a distant smile.
Finally all the shattered wishes,
Placed in softly so no more can break,
Covering them over trying not to cry,
So they would not all ache.
Lastly walking round each room,
Closing each and every curtain,
Shutting each and every door,
Leaving behind each and ever pain.
Gathering up the memories we shared,
Making sure I've got them all,
Packing them softly because I cared,
Leaving them in the boxes in the hall.
Adrian Baillie
Published: Dec 2008