New thread--sorry I don't have what it takes to post my previous ones here yet.
Just a note on why I get so annoyed on GUBU being MIA with these animals.
I am a 120 pound woman who just got done wrestling a 300 pound goat out of a metal gate and emerged (mostly) unscathed.
(Woo Hoo!!!)
However, I am bruised and shaking.
These goats have horns, and it is not a one-person job to deal with a panicked animal underneath a heavy metal gate, horns caught in chains, and other goats milling around, butting each other, and going nuts because it's feeding time.
I could have gotten gored or my arm broken. I didn't, but I was very lucky.
The whole time, I'm cursing GUBU. I was so angry.
I am still angry.
This is the kind of thing that happens and he is off in la-la land.
I think the solution is going to be if he can't be relied upon to be here, the animals will have to go.
Or I will have to go.
I'm just over living like this.
As much as I love them, it's only a matter of time until I get really injured.
I have said this to him numerous times, about how we could set up the feeding stations to be safer for me, etc. but he has not bothered to make any of that happen.
He doesn't have a problem with it--so....
I don't see having someone else do it as a solution either.
It just means it's easier for him to dump on me because now it's less dangerous.
So it's not just like he can beg off and assume I'm doing this on my own and I should be OK with it. I am not OK with it.
I may be Gumby Goat Gal, but I am not Wonder Woman.
At least not yet.
Venting over.
---GGG
Be careful
You may need to hire help....or get rid of animals.
Sorry you are having this dangerous responsibility alone'
GGG,
Here's the link to your previous thread:
Stimulus-Response: The Experiment Continues I am sorry that you had such a close call! Glad you're alright.
We all have our own transitions and need to learn to let go of some things that are not beneficial. It is for you to decide.
For me, I chose not to have dogs for a while because of my hectic work schedule and it wouldn't be fair for all involved. I looove dogs with a passion. After my other two dogs died of some dreadful illness (cancer and septematica) where I witnessed the first one die in our arms (Ms. Wonka and I--sometime in August of 2007) and put the other one to sleep in 2009, I said, "That's it. No more dogs."
Since being dog free, I find that I do more GAL and am able to travel more. Sweet.
It is a personal choice when it comes to animals. From the sound of what you frequently post here, it is A LOT of work!
I'm glad to come here and read that you are okay. Please be careful around the goats. They are cute and adorable, but when it comes to feeding time, they can be quite a bit to deal with.
Whoa! Be careful. Those goats can do crazy stuff! I'm glad you're ok. I seems you know exactly what you're doing though.
I wonder if you dropped all expectations of H and just hired someone else to help you out... maybe someone mildly attractive perhaps or someone who makes you laugh. Make it so you don't need your husband. Would that be a 180? I wonder if he'd get all huffy about it. WDYT?
GGG,
I'm really glad you are ok. That's scary.
Nothing draws my anger to the surface like situations where I need Smokey...for example...moving D20 back and forth from school or when she had pneumonia or when I had pneumonia.
You're a tough cookie GGG. You will be ok. GUBU, on the other hand....hmmmmmm...not so much.
Thanks, guys.
I have the farm boy lined up, he's just down the road.
I was holding off because I thought it would create more tension for GUBU.
But I think that's what I need to do.
Not even mention it to him, just do it.
He'll see things getting done.
Unfortunately, he probably would never have to guts to ask about it.
As it stands, I texted him about the goat incident hours ago.
Probably shouldn't have, but shoot.
They're his goats too.
Anyhow, it was light-hearted--- about me being the "Goat Whisperer" and rescuing Julius....and that he might want to think about fixing that gate tomorrow.
No response now for hours.
That is unusual for him.
So it goes.
The man is weird.
Sometimes I even wonder if he IS a real person anymore.
There is so much missing from him these days.
Goodnight, DBers!!!
Taking some sleepy-time drugs, going to bed early, and yes, Wonka, I ate a GOOD DINNER!
---GGG
Will your farm boy say "as you wish" as he hands you a pitcher? gah, that'd be so awesome.
Man I'm picturing fabio!
I can't believe it's not butter! Well that might not have been a commercial in USA but boy we loved it in oz.
GGG, I am glad you are safe, and I know what it is like to be wrestling with something that needs two people when you are only one person and not a large one! The temptation is to be angry with the other person for not being there, for putting us in this situation. But what if he were sick? He isn't going to wake up because you had a close call. I had cancer and my xh didn't 'wake up'
I wonder if part of your personal journey is to be doing something different? A real 180 for you, and not simply with regard to your relationship.
You mentioned that GUBU pays all the bills. I sat there, literally stunned for some time. Did I read that right? The way everyone sets up their relationship is their own affair, but I am older than you and simply cannot imagine this state of affairs.
Why not get estimates for an automated feeding system? We have to accept they are gone - sometimes they are permanently gone and sometimes it is temporary. The more independent we are of them, the better decisions we will make regarding our long term future. If our financial affairs, and business affairs are heavily intertwined, it is good to start unwinding them earlier rather than later, particularly if they go off on a prolonged spending spree at some point, or even go AWOL, leaving us with unpaid bills.
A lot of the things my xh and I did together formed part of the glue of our relationship. Now I am realising I want something different from life.
Like the lovely Wonka, I do not have pets, because they are a tie I do not need. I raised three children, and I love not being responsible for anyone else. Doesn't mean I don't care.
The challenge is re-imagining our lives. This is hard to do after investing many many years with one person, but the reality is they may not sort themselves out. Sometimes the MLCer wakes up and the LBS is long gone.
I could have had some sort of r with my xh, but wholly on his terms. Not enough. I want something better than that. Exclusivity for a start!!
Thanks, Beatrice,
The bill-paying thing sounds odd, but he's the sole wage earner and has it set up with direct deposit with his paycheck and most bills are paid on auto-draft.
I get confirmation emails and text alerts, have access to all accounts.
I have credit cards, debit cards, checks... ATM.
He has never tried to limit my spending, or give me grief about it.
Of course, I am considerate.
But I am free to do as I please---for now---within limits.
Believe me, I keep an eye on things.
Although before the you-know-what hit the fan, I trusted him implicitly.
I don't any longer.
We tried splitting up different things, then just me paying bills... it was a mess because we didn't talk much in person,...
I am fine with him continuing to do this because he prides himself on being a good provider and the one thing he likes to remind me that he hasn't done to me (yet) is that he is keeping the finances as they were, not hiding money...etc.
I hope that explains it.
If I see anything fishy, believe me, I'm all over it.
---GGG
POSSIBLE RELATIONSHIP TALK TOMORROW!!! I am circling the wagons and calling my DBing posse. I am going to need some help with finding the right words.
I need to go over my script so I'm really, really prepared.
It has been a rough week.
-----------------------
Also---I am kicking myself for not realizing this sooner, but it finally hit me why I'm in such a funk.
It is coming up on a year to the day when I "Lost my innocence" about my M and what my H was capable of doing.
Before I "knew" what I knew.
The weather is the same, that similar pregnant feeling in the air...
I remember the last few weeks of summer last year when things were so odd between us, yet he wasn't talking.
I remember feeling really really sick around this time, not knowing why.
My hair was falling out... among other things.
However, I was still ignorantly happy, figuring he was going through something and being a man, he'd figure it out.
Boy was I wrong...
Then it was our anniversary, not a card, not a word, not anything---he picked a fight over PIZZA---I had another cancer scare, he ignored this, he was treating me terribly, I discovered OW, and he turned officially into the shark-eyed pod person.
I guess prior to that he was just pretending to be a good man.
-----------------------------------------
So I believe that's what I'm reacting to deep down, why I'm so sad, so tired of this, why all this stuff is bubbling to the surface.
I wasn't sure until I got a rare nap today, and when I opened my eyes--it HIT me like a ton of bricks and I started crying.
It's the anniversary of when my dreams died.
---------------------------
Anyhow, gather round the campfire, let Cooky rustle up some vittles and a few jugs of STFU juice, and prepare to brainstorm about how to save the old Triple G ranch!
---GGG
I might just get one chance at this, at least to move things in a positive direction, so I need all the help I can get.
I believe he has been waiting for ME to make the first move.
(Not fair, not manly, but so it goes.)
I think this because he mentioned the basement bathroom was finally done, he'd been working on it every weekend for weeks, it was the one thing holding him back from moving into the basement, but when I just said "That's nice", he never brought it up again.
He seems to take a lot of direction from me... always has.
HISTORY of R TALKS:
After the time I caught him texting another female employee back and forth in the middle of the night in early June, he cut off my phone account from his. He lied and said she was "not an employee".
(Yes. Better for me to think that he had a new OW than he was being borderline inappropriate with another employee.)
I said that "I knew that she WAS an employee"... and he said it "was none of my business"...all that.
Of course, he could have just told the truth... but I digress...
I said it IS my business if he gets fired because we all depend on him.
He almost got fired LAST TIME because OW was a direct subordinate and he supervised her daily. At the very least, they would have split them up, possibly to other states. So yes. A BIG DEAL.
But at the end of this text war about him texting people he shouldn't be, I said something about "I can't do this anymore. I just can't."
He says--"What do you mean? Do you want to talk about this?"
And then he called me. (We hadn't been speaking much on the phone.)
I wonder if he thinks I was suicidal or something.
Definitely not, but I was ready to walk away, or sign the papers, or something.
Kind of like where I am now. Just DONE with this.
And every time I've called my lawyer, he has called his immediately, to check what I'm up to.
There's nothing I could do but SPEED UP THE DIVORCE, and I don't believe that's what he wants.
If he did want that, he could be applying pressure, which he has not. He seems content with the way things are.
He hasn't gotten his own place, or even looked at anything.
It's bizarre. IT's GUBU!
-------------------------------
Anyhow...sorry for the rambling...
I said I felt that he was "bullying me with the fact that he could control the phones, the bank accounts... that he treats me like an employee and it's abusive."
"It makes me feel threatened and uncared for."
He asked: "What can I do to make you feel more secure?".
* He said he didn't believe that he ever used his financial "power" against me. (Poor memory)
* He said that his lawyer has repeatedly told him to separate the finances but that he has said he doesn't want to do this to me.
(Which is one reason why "separated" is kind of a joke. I believe he'd still be here if I hadn't kicked him out! I think he was shocked that I did. How weird is that?)
Anyhow,
I totally blew it.
"How could he make me feel more secure?"
I said he "could listen to what I had to say without getting defensive, for a start, that I wanted to be able to talk about MY FEELINGS without it turning into a blow-up."
The ONE thing he is NOT willing to do is to look inward, deal with emotions or conflict. He can't handle my feelings, much less his own.
He has always been this way.
I didn't yell, I didn't criticize, I was sort of crying... and at this statement he blew up and said:
"That's not going to happen GGG. I want a Di-VORCE!"
(I guess I missed where getting a divorce means you don't have to discuss anything? Is it a pass on listening and resolving conflict?
Hardly!!!)
The "Di-VORCE!!!!!" is what he always throws up in my face when the convo takes a turn he doesn't like.
He has never said it to me or mentioned it except in anger, in a petulant teenage voice.
In other words, I have never heard it from my Husband, only from GUBU. Which to me means it doesn't count.
I responded to his "I wanna Di-VORCE!!!" with:
"That's FINE! Really. I totally agree!
I don't want to be married to a man who can't handle life and has no coping skills. I want you to be a man, to deal with this, to stop running away from things..."
And he stopped cold... as he has before. And he just listened to me talk.
*I said I believed that he only filed to beat me to the punch because he was afraid that I would,
* that his heart was never in it, (he did let it lapse until I pushed the issue) and
* that he only re-instated it because he was angry.
* that he has things he needs to deal with that have nothing to do with me, and never did.
* that I understand that he needs space, but D isn't the way to fix things, because there is no going back.
*that I have done nothing to warrant such a serious action... all that stuff.
(I had fallen off the DBing wagon at this point, I think LaBug came to my rescue that morning!!!)
He didn't even disagree.
He actually listened and validated me.
Said he'd skip coming that night because he was "afraid I'd blow up at him". (I never did get angry, only cried.)
He came up the next night but asked ahead of time if I was "OK with no contact".
I was. I preferred it.
After this I went really dark and I think things went south between us.
-------------------------------------
I think on some level if I asked him to come home and I would just drop everything, he would come home.
Not that he would change his behavior or anything! I'm not THAT naive.
It's just that we always said this was not a "one person venture" which is why I allowed him to stay for a while, on and off after the whole OW discovery.
Because he KNOWS it's too hard.
----------------------------------
I wonder though--he is such a manipulator.
Maybe this was a plan to push me over the edge so I'd ask him to come back?
I can't discount that possibility.
You know, just dump more and more on me until my back finally gave out.
--------------------------
Anyhow, more to come about the actual "proposed talk".
I'm getting ahead---and behind--myself all at once.
---GGG
Hi GGG,
I'm a bit confused. Did GUBU initiate this R talk? Have you texted or spoken to him since the goat incident? Or is the talk just something you feel YOU need to have?
Just wanted to get some info before going into anything.
OK, here's the Skinny. Gather 'round, Pardners!
GUBU has stated that he wants to find out what's "going on" with me, but doesn't want to text/email/phone.
He wants to "TALK LIVE" tomorrow.
Needless to say, I am freaked out.
He doesn't usually want to talk about anything, much less about how I AM DOING!
It may be nothing, but it may be a chance to clear the air.
Facts:
GUBU knows that I saw one of my docs on Thursday. He picked up a bunch of prescriptions for me.
He knows I am not feeling well, although I did not elaborate. I am exhausted, really to the bone.
He can see how thin I am... anyone can. I am getting too many comments on this lately.
This morning when he came, I left him a note: I just said that I needed some space and was going to rest today, so I did not see him or speak to him at all.
Also that I wasn't going to be up to doing any hard physical labor this week and I'd appreciate any additional help he could give me.
(I was going to follow that with a "let me know if you won't be available (not WHY) so I can make other arrangements." As in--Hunky Farm Boy.)
He didn't respond to this and I didn't expect him to.
This ^^^ was based on my discussion with shrink on Thursday.
Doc was:
* concerned about my overall well-being, too thin, etc
* suggested I take a break. Or a vacation!
* said I was doing too much, not taking care of myself.
* said what you all said, "Can't I get somebody to help?"
* said living alone like I am with all these animals and little human interaction is not healthy.
* wanted to start me on anti-depressants, that I don't think I need. I did leave that option open, however.
* we agreed that any "depression" I might be experiencing is situational, understandable, and perfectly normal and I am seeing him again in a few weeks to check in.
I understand that sometimes we can't see ourselves clearly, and it concerns ME that he was so concerned.
Also my blood pressure has been running really high--just anxiety and stress I guess. I never had it before, just when I got nervous about something.
Now I'm pretty much nervous a lot of the time. Cue massive weight loss!
Since not having the help I need and feeling trapped here has been something I've been wrestling with on this board, it was hard to hear him say out loud what I was thinking.
How do I say "NO" to picking up any more work without shooting myself in the foot with my R?
___________________________________
What I Want:
Irrelevant at the moment.
______________________________________
What I Need:
More help around here!
More chances to get out and GAL without paying the price in:
lack of sleep
dealing with GUBU
mess from the dogs if I deviate from their schedule
concerns about getting chores done, locking up the chickens, feeding everyone...
....THEN getting cleaned up and ready to go out.
By the time I'm ready to step out the door, I'm exhausted.
A house that is not a disaster zone.
Better safety measures in place for dealing with livestock.
More security in this house, living here alone, isolated.
Less responsibility with the animals--physical and emotional.
Better health and better sleep.
More support from and contact with others.
___________________________________________
Possible Solutions:
Letting H move back into basement with certain conditions to which he will likely not agree.
Moving into my own place and letting him have primary responsibility. It would give him a taste of what D will REALLY be like. Frankly, this is very appetizing. But I worry that in his current state he will drop the ball after a few weeks and it'll fall on my shoulders all over again.
Hiring some outside help. (Doable, but sometimes the supervision takes longer than doing it myself, but definitely an option.)
Setting things up differently so there is not so much work (automatic feeders, door closers, better safety measures.)
Working out an agreement with GUBU that he will provide more support while we are going through this
_______________________
What I will NOT ACCEPT:
Being treated as an employee who is paid to be here no matter what.
Dealing with this remodel and all that entails. The interior is unfinished and it is hardly livable. My lawyer saw pictures and was appalled. (GUBU does not seem to notice this any more.)
Being trapped in this house, doing mountains of laundry, scooping poop, feeding and medicating all these dogs on my own.
Having the dogs impact my sleep many nights. He knows this and complains about it when he's here. In the past, we'd take turns getting up. Now it's just me. It's too much.
(They bark at some animal in the woods, some old one has to go potty... someone gets sick, etc. )
Having primary responsibility for the farm animals morning, noon, and any night/day GUBU states he is not coming.
Being in an unhealthy environment physically and emotionally.
Having GUBU living under the same roof without the following conditions being met:
1. NO OTHER PEOPLE---for him or for me. No "dating" or sexting/EA/PA with others.
This would be too hard to take under the same roof and would not help my well being one bit.
That can wait until after D. Non-negotiable.
2. Both of us in ongoing therapy separately. (Otherwise, nothing will change with him.)
3. Responsible for our own share of chores, and clear on who does what.
4. Common courtesy and basic respect.
5. Privacy in my area, and he can have privacy in his.
Later on, if there was hope of R, there would have to be a transparency plan, among other things.
But for now, the above is good enough.
Thoughts???
---GGG
Hi GGG,
Just off the top of my head, I think #2 of what you MUST have isn't something that H will either want to do or think he needs. It also could be seen by him as saying HE is "sick" or "wrong" and not your business. It seems like more than a "boundary" and would be seen by an MLCer as you trying to "fix" him.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really good idea for him to go and he should. I just don't think he will take it well.
Sorry, Matt.
Hmm... #2. That's Therapy, right?
I guess you're correct. It IS telling him what to do.
But no OW is OK, right? Because I couldn't handle that one.
I have trouble with him not being in therapy either, but I get it.
No. I would NEVER ask for a R talk!
I had texted him re: not being around today and being in bed.
"Sorry I was so crappy today. Guess there's just a lot going on right now."
He said "What is up?... Don't text, let's talk tomorrow, live."
--------------------------------------
I know it's a small thing.
But historically he avoids even responding to anything that might lead to a discussion about *GASP* EMOTIONS!!!
So, it's kind of a big deal.
Or it could be nothing.
I just want to be prepared if he does open the door to talk a bit.
I don't even want a R talk, it just might happen if I'm not careful.
I just need to be doing less and not wearing myself out.
Somehow we need to agree about how we can make that happen.
-----------------------------------
I'm thinking about just putting it out there, just the facts:
"My doctor is concerned about my well being, this is too much for one person, what can we do to make things easier at this time... "
and be open to what he has to say.
My major issues are:
1. Lack of sleep
2. Too much labor with animals. house, property
3. Safety issues: Living alone, animals
4. Not enough human interaction/ability to get out
5. I want to make sure the animals are cared for
My well being comes first before anyone or anything else.
If I don't have that, I don't have anything.
I think I could have handled this better a week ago, but I am feeling pretty down and vulnerable at the moment.
No doubt he picks up on this.
Unlike me, he reads people very well.
---GGG
Just to be clear, this is about me surviving and thriving.
I really AM open to any suggestions he may have, but I want to be prepared with my
"non-negotiables".
I realized after the goat incident that my time of going this alone is coming to a close.
My doctor is right. This is not a sustainable situation for me.
---GGG
GGG,
Wow. That's a large plate from the buffet table!! Did you really have to pile it that high, girl?!?
First things first.
I'd suggest that you take a piece of paper and draw a line in the middle of it. Label one side "NEEDS" and the other one "WANTS." I usually find that it helps clarify some things that can be blurry and murky. It might help you as well.
Sometimes people see needs as interchangeable with wants. I've learned to really discipline myself with shopping. I stop and ask myself, "Is this a need or a want?" Saves me some bucks that way!
Likewise with your life balance. What you're describing is a life balance.
I think the more clearer you are about the balance portion, then you'll be clearer for your discussion with GUBU. Make sense?
Wonka---thanks for chiming in here.
Needs vs. Wants----Didn't I do that?
I left the "Wants" list empty... I'll try to simplify. It's not my strong suit, obviously.
ORIGINAL LIST:
What I Want:
Irrelevant at the moment.
______________________________________
What I Need:
More help around here!
More chances to get out and GAL without paying the price in:
lack of sleep
dealing with GUBU
mess from the dogs if I deviate from their schedule
concerns about getting chores done, locking up the chickens, feeding everyone...
....THEN getting cleaned up and ready to go out.
By the time I'm ready to step out the door, I'm exhausted.
A house that is not a disaster zone.
Better safety measures in place for dealing with livestock.
More security in this house, living here alone, isolated.
Less responsibility with the animals--physical and emotional.
Better health and better sleep.
More support from and contact with others.
--------------------------------------------
NEW LIST!!!
I need:
To be safe.
To have less labor/chores.
To have more human contact on a regular basis.
To have less sleep interruption.
I think this is reasonable, no?
I do not think I can continue like this and stay healthy.
It's been almost a year, on and off, and six months steady.
Better?
---GGG
What I Want:
Irrelevant at the moment.
Not true. You do have wants too. Write 'em down, sweetie. They matter. Very much.
Wonka--be careful what you ask for!I want my husband back, the life I believed I had.
I want my dream back, my funny farm, my 501C-3, My rescues, the work we did together.
I want to have that innocence I once had, when I believed GUBU was incapable of doing this to me.
But I get that all this ^^^ is not within my power.
So here is the part you might be aiming for:I want to be healthy, vibrant, and happy.
I want to continue to do the things I love: Music, Art, Dance, Animals.. all the rest.
I want good friends
I want to be financially stable so I can do the above ^^^.
I want to continue to learn and grow as a person, and as an artist/musician.
I want my life to be interesting and fulfilling.
I want peace, harmony, and beauty in my life
I want emotional connection with others
IF I were to have a relationship. (Funny this didn't pop up as a "want")
I would want it to be based on honesty, vulnerability, commitment, fidelity,
with someone who loves me for ME, who values what I value, who is KIND above all.
Someone who supports me in my endeavors, who allows me the freedom I need to enjoy the above ^^^^.
Someone who treats me well, is emotionally stable, and able to give of himself completely. Someone who thinks he is lucky to have me.
Someone who is a peer and can match me intellectually and in other ways.
Someone who will challenge me, who is assertive, strong, and dependable.
Someone I can respect and admire for who he is. Someone with great character, and who is independent.
Someone I can rely on in good times and bad.
If he were easy on the eyes, that'd be great. But that doesn't matter to me as long as he is well-groomed, healthy, happy, and has a positive outlook.
I guess at this point, I might as well add: "Or She"!
You never know. The home team might have an advantage, why not check it out?
But I'm OK alone too. Better alone than with someone who doesn't meet at least 70% of the above.
Surely there's more...but this is good for now.
---GGG
GGG,
Thanks! Your wants are beautiful!
Here's the game plan for tomorrow, if you will. You can change whatever you see fit as you know GUBU the best.
The ONE thing he is NOT willing to do is to look inward, deal with emotions or conflict. He can't handle my feelings, much less his own.
He has always been this way.
^^ This is an important reminder to keep in the back of your mind when talking with H tomorrow.
Another thing about the MLCer is this:
-We. cannot. handle. too. much. information. all. at. once.
So go back to your list of needs and wants and review them. Pick out the top 3 or 4 from each of your lists.
Then lay them out to H in a matter-of-fact tone without emotion (or the least amount of it--after all, you're human!). State that you are on the brink of a physical shutdown and you need to focus on getting to a healthier place. You need H's help with XXXX (spell it out) so you will/can YYYYYY.
It is important not to overload H with a bunch of stuff or he'll shut down. The MLC mind can process only so much information. That is why we have Swiss-Cheese for a brain!
Bottom line is this: It's time for you to throw out some truth darts to H about you and your health.
Thanks, Wonky!!!I do tend to go overboard.
(Gee, do you think anyone noticed this on the board?
)
Are you saying I should present wants too?My "wants" don't hinge on him, really. Not at the moment.
He certainly can't meet much of my relationship "wants" at the moment.
Seems like my needs are enough to contend with. But OK...
------------------------------------
I also need to keep it non-emotional, do my validating, listening.
I will avoid any discussion about him living here.
If he brings it up, I will say simply that I agree that is an option, but we should talk another time about how that might look.
I want to hear his suggestions first for dealing with the major issues.
I have my list of possible solutions.
We do not have to decide anything tomorrow, just open the discussion.
I am prepared for his usual---"Well, what do YOU want to do?" tactic.
If so, I can say, "I've thought of this, that, and the other thing. Which do you think would work best?"
Ugghhhh... I have a problem with memorization.
I'm better if I write a letter and read it to him!
---GGG
Why don't you take a look at your wants list and think about how GUBU will be able to handle in the best way? I can see two from the list that will not make GUBU feel uncomfortable.
I agree.
I don't think he'd have a problem with any of them.
They're nothing that he needs to provide.
I'm not sure why it's relevant, though.
I mean, why should he care what I want? He hasn't so far.
Oh.. you mean the relationship wants?
Duh...
I don't see any that he can fulfill of those.
Am I missing something?
---GGG
Ooopss.
Sleeping meds kicking in and I gotta go...
I will check first thing in the morning at coffee time!!
---GGG
From what you've noted in your lab reports, GUBU cannot handle R-related stuff.
Here are some that are not necessarily R-related stuff from your 'wants' list:
-
I want to be healthy, vibrant, and happy.-
I want peace, harmony, and beauty in my lifeSo when you have the "talk" with GUBU, you can recap what your doctor said at your last visit with him. Then lay out what you "want" then ask GUBU what you "need" from him in order to make it happen.
Focus on solutions so you can be healthy again and feel more at peace with your current situation.
Make sense?
Keep the long list of "wants" in your back pocket for the time being.
As for the needs, perhaps you can prioritize it with GUBU with some solutions:
What I Need:More help around here!
More chances to get out and GAL without paying the price in:
lack of sleep
dealing with GUBU
mess from the dogs if I deviate from their schedule
concerns about getting chores done, locking up the chickens, feeding everyone...
....THEN getting cleaned up and ready to go out.
By the time I'm ready to step out the door, I'm exhausted.
A house that is not a disaster zone.
Better safety measures in place for dealing with livestock.
More security in this house, living here alone, isolated.
Less responsibility with the animals--physical and emotional.
Better health and better sleep.
More support from and contact with others. You got this, GGG!!!
I am in total agreement with Wonka here, GGG. Just the things that you feel you must have.....from him...that will allow you to keep going and be healthy.
By the way, I really do think the MLCer has a sense that tells them when we have reached our wits end. When my W was still at home she would avoid talking about anything until I was at a point where I was the least able to do so and keep mu wits about me! It's like they know when the best time is to strike!
You can and will do this, GGG! No sweat. (It's gotta be easier than all you've been doing, Wonder Woman!)
GGG some distant cousins of mine ran an animal rescue facility - it nearly brought the wife to the brink of collapse. It is incredibly demanding, and NOT a hobby (I am not suggesting that you think it is)
Where I live there are a number of facilities, and they are set up and run as charities, with staff and fundraising in place.
Doing it as a personal venture is really really tough - I used to go and help my cousins (they were a lot older than me) in my vacations and what always struck me was that there was always crisis after crisis. And a lot of drama.
Maybe this is the time to start reviewing the whole process. Which bits you like, and can handle, and which bits you can't. Eventually my cousins gave it up.
Maybe talking about the whole rescue centre and where it is going might be a way in. To say you can't handle the whole operation single handle and ask GUBU for his input?
I agree with Wonka, my only suggestion is to remember that less is more.
Try to keep R talks to a minimum, set your boundaries, stick to them, and also know that it is highly unlikely that his crisis is magically over.
He is taking your temperature, testing you, that is my observation.
Good luck with your day.
Thanks, Everyone, for your support.Could be that nothing happens, but I want all those little duckies in a row.
Here's the speech:1. "Gubu, I was at the doc the other day and he had concerns about my overall health; that I am run down and too isolated from other people.
2. There are some things I need to change in order to be healthier and I was hoping you could help me with that."------------------------
3. "I need to be less overwhelmed with my responsibilities here, it's too much to continue as I have been."
4. "I am open to whatever thoughts you have about we can accomplish that."(This is very succinct for me!
)
-----------------------------------
Then wait to see what he says....Comebacks:H: "Well, what do YOU want to do?" Me:
"We could hire someone, you could agree to help out more, we could re-home some of the animals....do you have any ideas? "Listen and Validate!H: Complains about him "needing a social life too!!!"Me:
"I agree, having a social life IS important. How can we both get our needs met while taking some of the load off?"H: "Do you want me to move into the basement?" (Likely how he'd phrase it if he mentioned it.)
Me:
"I have thought about that a lot and it is a possible solution. If that's something we want to consider, we should talk about it more another time after we think about what that might look like."H:"But I want to start dating and that means I have to be gone more"Me:
"Dating. Hmmm... I don't think it would be appropriate for me to date anyone now, but I can see why you might feel that way. This is a lonely time for us both. If it's important to you, we can work that in." (Ugh. But OK...)
H:
" What is it that you really need from me?"Me:
1.
"Maybe one night a week be available longer to do some bathing, trim nails, grooming, feed the dogs, do medications."2.
"Do some chores around the house/property during the week, or work on some projects to make the space more livable and safer for all of us."3.
"Coordinate socials plans with me ahead of time because it's hard for me to get out to be around people."(Right now he's here about 20 minutes on 3 weeknights, and a few hours each Sat/Sun. So far. He stays here if I am out very late or overnight. Other than that, I'm going it alone the rest of the time.
I think it's reasonable to ask that he stays for an hour one night a week.
He runs here, does the bare minimum, and then I guess goes back to his friend's house, drinks and does stuff online. I get left here to do everything else. None of my business, other than he is dumping too much on me. This is just a little perspective....)
I hesitate to say "Think about this and get back to me..." because, historically, he'd say "Sure." and then never mention it again. So I'll ask: "Do you want to think about this more and talk another time?"And then AGREE on a TIME and PLACE to finish the discussion.-----------------------------------
I'm going to try to keep it short and sweet.Speak softly. Really listen to him.
Use less words.
Allow him the freedom to feel what he feels... validate, validate....
------------
If I get stuck somewhere, I'll just use the old standbys:"Hmmmm... I really need to think about that some more...."
"Sounds like we both have some decisions to make...."
"I hadn't thought of it that way. Can we discuss it more at another time?"
"I didn't realize..."
And I am going to write down some validations from the handy cheat sheet provided here...
Wish me luck!
I'll be back on later...
(I have this picture in my head: Me saying "Hold that thought, GUBU, I have to consult my DBing pals!!!
)
---GGG
Hi, GGG,
I get you, and it can easily follow your thought process. I'm impressed by your preparedness, and I hope you are able to access the right words at the right time today.
These talks rarely end with the thought "wow, I said everything perfectly" and that's ok.
I like the "speak softly, really listen to him, and use less words", personally. That was my hardest 180 in the beginning, but it was the most effective in my sitch.
I'm cheering for you, and wishing the best possible outcome for this day.
((((Hugs))))
GGG,
You can do this! The only problem I have with your list is this:
H:"But I want to start dating and that means I have to be gone more"
Me: "Dating. Hmmm... I don't think it would be appropriate for me to date anyone now, but I can see why you might feel that way. This is a lonely time for us both. If it's important to you, we can work that in." (Ugh. But OK...)
Knowing you from here, I think you really don't want to be in an open M. It doesn't line up with your core values. Why would you even say that ^^??!
H: "Do you want me to move into the basement?" (Likely how he'd phrase it if he mentioned it.)
Me: "I have thought about that a lot and it is a possible solution. If that's something we want to consider, we should talk about it more another time after we think about what that might look like."
Why put it off for another time? This would be a good opportunity to put it on the table and discuss this option together. Doncha think so?
Good luck!! We're all rooting for you, dear friend.
Wonka, I'll respond to you in a sec.
Meanwhile--can you all say--all together now: "KER-FLOOEY!!!"?????What the heck is happening now?
Here's how it went down.H texts me about 8 AM, says "Be there 9:30" Ok. so far, so good.
I didn't see it because I was out doing chores, feeding dogs, etc.
So he calls around 9--says: "Hey, did you get my text?'Me: "Yeah, that you'd be here at 9:30, just saw it."H: "Well, I wanted to make sure that you left the basement door open, (I always do--forgot ONCE), and I got a new lock for it." (Something I'd asked him if he thought was a good idea yesterday. Guess he did.)
Me: "OK, see you then."---------------
He actually got here around ten.
I heard him down there messing with the lock.
I am resting, per doctor's orders, took a hot bath, had some breakfast.
It is SUNDAY, after all, and he's here to HELP, RIGHT???
He is usually here for at least three hours, and lets me know when he's about to leave in case I need him to take the recycling, etc. Just basic stuff.
We have been communicating about those things very amicably.
Until today!
__________________________________
He was here about an hour and half... I figured, plenty of time here, right?I get a text a few minutes ago:H: "Wanna come up see the guys get trash and then go get animal food." He means: NOW.Me: "
I'm still resting, can you give me 30 minutes?"H: "Then go in the bedroom and I'll leave you alone."(I almost called my DBing lifeline, thinking "WTF????")
Me: "Sorry, I really need 30 minutes"H: "No."H: "C U tomorrow."Me: "That's up to you."So--no danger of any R talk today!And I really wanted to add: "No. You're 'not a bully'..."---------------------------------------------
Clearly, GUBU is back in full force, and that glimmer of my formerly caring H I saw last night has gone into the dark place again.
Probably the lock was a bust---he gets really angry at his inability to do things he once did effortlessly.
I'll check that out later.
(What is really needed is a new door, not a new expensive lock put on an old broken door, but I STFU about that when I realized that was his plan.)
I REALLY felt like he was bullying me, because he was. Being very bossy and disrespectful.
He basically got angry when he heard the word "NO".
Even if it was unspoken. Just like a child!
----------------------------------
He has done this before, with the "I WANT, I WANT, ME-ME-ME....NOW-NOW-NOW!!!!"
Gets angry if I don't give him what he wants when he wants it.
Not all the time, but sometimes. This comes and goes.
And I always respond the same. I set limits and stick to them.
I make him wait, ask..
I will not be told what to do by a GUBU nut. He is doing the same thing again that he's been doing recently, trying to pull the "Big Boss Man" card and treat me like an employee.
Well, it ain't happening!!!!!
Which of course, p*ssed him off further.
No doubt solidifies how awful I am in his mind.
I don't cave in to every whim and desire, not like OW did. SHE made him HAPPY!!!!
At his beck and call. Of course she was--HE was HER BOSS!!!
Guess he likes it like that: "Who's your Boss-Man Daddy??"Not you, GUBU. Definitely NOT you...
-------------------------------------
I have asked before that he only need give me a head's up, that he is welcome to see the dogs any time...
He has been doing this consistently, but today...
I wonder if he's afraid? Afraid that my "problem" will be something that he fears...?
Like maybe I want to speed up the D, that I have a boyfriend, that I know one of his secrets, that I am really sick and that will put a monkey wrench into his fantastic fun times...who knows?
But anyhow.
No. He can't come up THIS VERY MOMENT. I'm in a towel, putting on lotion...
But I don't need to spend one word defending myself from craziness!!!
A "Roller-Coaster" doesn't begin to cover it!--------------------------------
Here I am preparing for what might be some type of connection, and he is furious and clearly trying to push my buttons and control me, maybe sabotage the discussion he'd offered to have.
Who knows?
He came off as pretty angry though, drove off in a huff.
Whatever.
On the up-side. I find I'm feeling pretty detached about it.
Relieved that I don't have to do it today and I get to prep more.
I still have the same issues which need to be addressed, still need to ask/get additional support so I can stay well and move through this journey in one piece.
Any discussion with him will have to wait until another time, if ever.
---------------------------------------------------
Since I am NOT a mind-reader, (although I do like to play one on TV from time to time), all I know for sure is that something is making him uncomfortable, and lashing out at me seemed like a solution to him.
He may have made a mess of the lock, was angry at himself, and wanted to leave to go be miserable.
Oh well. Not my problem!
I do know--it's nothing I did. It's ALL HIM.
----------------------------------------
In the past, sometimes he would apologize for behaving like this, lately, he doesn't do that.
He was trying to get X by doing Y.
Don't think it worked for him though.
I have learned not to take the bait.
He may have an arsenal of weapons at his disposal, but I have all the ammunition! And so it goes, DBing pals.
Another day, another crazy scene at the Triple GGG Ranch!
----GGG
Wonka: "
The only problem I have with your list is this:"Originally Posted By: LoopyGGG
THEORETICAL CONVO COMEBACKS:
If H says:"But I want to start dating and that means I have to be gone more"
I Might Say: "Dating. Hmmm... I don't think it would be appropriate for me to date anyone now, but I can see why you might feel that way. This is a lonely time for us both. If it's important to you, we can work that in." (Ugh. But OK...)Wonka: "Knowing you from here, I think you really don't want to be in an open M. It doesn't line up with your core values. Why would you even say that ^^??!"Ahhhh!!! There's the rub.
I don't want him dating, I think it's disrespectful, even ridiculous.
He has nothing to offer anyone emotionally, he has Hep-C, not to mention a wife who is supposed to take care of things while he goes on these "dates".
But it's not for me to say, is it?
He believes he is "single" in the sense that we are "separated" and he has filed for divorce.
He can tell any prospective date/victim that I am holding things up, that he should have been divorced already...
He can paint me as a shrew.
Because, if he told the truth--as in:
I cheated on my wife and treated her like dirt.
I have a lot of issues you might want to know about so you can avoid me, but I'll just omit these little facts...
No one would come near him!
But I thought I was supposed to "validate", etc. and not give him reason to dig his feet in deeper on the issue.
Me trying to put my foot down is likely to have the opposite effect.
If I say--"Heck yeah! Get out there and grab all the gusto you can! ENJOY!!!" That kind of takes a bit of the fun out of doing it to get at me anyway.
After all, if he feels he is ready to "date" while he doesn't live here, there is not much I can do about it.
In his mind, our M is OVER. I guess.
All I can do is be the better fish (MERMAID???) than whatever surfaces in the shallow end of his tiny, stagnant, algae-clogged dating pool.
After all, isn't that where one-celled organisms thrive???
---------------------------------------
I was only thinking about trying to work out a compromise and removing resistance to his helping around here more.
If he says the reason he can't be around more to help is because he wants to "date", then who am I to say otherwise?
Now--if he wants to live under the same roof, that's a totally different story.
Absolutely no third parties--EA or PA. Nada. Zip. Deal-breaker and he's out.
Does that make sense? I don't know if it's right or not, but I don't think I can enforce "no dating" can I?
Maybe I can amend that statement to:
"I disagree that dating is a good thing to be doing right now, but you are free to make your own (stupid, selfish), decisions."
Something more like that.
I really want to say:
"Just don't dump more work on ME so you can go out and try and find my replacement!!!"
----------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By: GGG
If H Says: "Do you want me to move into the basement?" (Likely how he'd phrase it if he mentioned it.)
I Might Say: "I have thought about that a lot and it is a possible solution. If that's something we want to consider, we should talk about it more another time after we think about what that might look like."Wonka: "Why put it off for another time? This would be a good opportunity to put it on the table and discuss this option together. Doncha think so?"I agree on the one hand that perhaps it's best to strike when the iron is hot.
But I was also thinking about what you and Cadet said about "less is more" and don't overload him with too much at once.
Plus, it will lead into a very delicate discussion that IS about the R, and I don't know if I could carry all that off in one convo.
But to amend it, I could say something like:
"I've thought about that too as a possible solution, but I have to make sure that it would be a healthy situation for me to be in.
It's easier to tolerate what you are doing if you are not living here.
I don't think I would be comfortable with you behaving as though you were single while we are still married."
How's that?
Clearly, I'm going to have more time to prepare for this talk, so...
---GGG
GGG,
You don't have to validate EVERYTHING that GUBU says...or even those that you don't necessarily agree with.
But I thought I was supposed to "validate", etc. and not give him reason to dig his feet in deeper on the issue.
Me trying to put my foot down is likely to have the opposite effect.
You can simply say, "I think differently. I don't think it is respectful when married couples date others outside of the marriage."
If GUBU gets upset or annoyed, it is all on him. It is for him to own completely.
After all, if he feels he is ready to "date" while he doesn't live here, there is not much I can do about it.
In his mind, our M is OVER. I guess. Irregardless of what GUBU thinks or feels, you own your core values and you can communicate them to him. How he reacts to your comments is all on him. Shrug your shoulders and try not to take it personally.
I was only thinking about trying to work out a compromise and removing resistance to his helping around here more.
If he says the reason he can't be around more to help is because he wants to "date", then who am I to say otherwise?
That is a fine line between diffusing the situation and placating GUBU. Careful there, honey.
As for GUBU moving in----
But to amend it, I could say something like:
"I've thought about that too as a possible solution, but I have to make sure that it would be a healthy situation for me to be in. It's easier to tolerate what you are doing if you are not living here. I don't think I would be comfortable with you behaving as though you were single while we are still married." Here's a suggested, modified response:
"I've thought about that too as a possible solution, but I have to make sure that it would be a healthy situation for me to be in. In order for that to happen, I need more support from you around the house in terms of doing chores. It's a lot for a person to take on alone and I will need you to be able to do this on a reliable, consistent basis.You're not guilt tripping H with hot buttons like behaving like a mopey, selfish singleton. To do so will just inflame and enrage GUBU unnecessarily. Do you see the difference between the two responses?
Plus you still want the squirrel to be able to eat out of your hand...right?
Food for thought.
Yes, Wonka,
Right as always.
Meanwhile, I just got this text from him:
"Please expect to talk in person tomorrow. --Gubu"
I was the one who had concerns, but clearly since he is unwilling to wait 30 minutes for me to dry off, I doubt he will be willing to actually HELP me more!
HELP!!! Now HE wants to talk about something. I don't think it's going to be good.
I don't have to discuss anything with him.
After the way he just disrespected me, I don't really feel that it will be productive.
---GGG
Meanwhile, I just got this text from him:
"Please expect to talk in person tomorrow. --Gubu"
Can I respond:
"If this last exchange is any indicator ^^^ I think I'll pass, thanks."
I also want to say:
"If this is about your divorce, or anything additional you want from me, I am not willing to have that conversation at this time. I've made my position clear and there is nothing more to discuss right now."
I really need a head's up before I commit to anything, because I can't be prepared for everything!!!
---GGG
Calm down, GGG. You're spinning.
You can simply say, "Sure...thanks for letting me know. It would be helpful to let me know ahead what it is that you wish to talk about tomorrow."
Here's some tips on setting healthy boundaries:
Setting Healthy Boundaries You'll note there's a link to assertiveness on the bottom of that site.
I thought about sending this email as a Head's Up:
"I saw Dr. R, he had some concerns about how I am living, the stress I am under, and the impact it's having on my physical health.
I realized, he's right.
It is not healthy for me to be cooped up here alone 24/7 with 18 dogs and the house in this condition.
I appreciate the help you've been able to provide, but it is not enough.
I was hoping to brainstorm some ideas where it might work better for us and the animals.
I thought I could ask for more support from you because I can no longer go this alone.
That's all."
---GGG
"PS: I am in no frame of mind to deal with any additional bombshells right now, so if that's what you were planning, I'll pass, thanks."
Yeah---I'm spinning all right!
He never wants to talk. This is freaking me OUT.
If he hadn't sent those nasty texts, I would have though maybe something good.
Now I feel like he has an agenda...
And he has gone from Passive-Aggressive to outright Aggressive at times, based on the bit of the article I looked at.
---GGG
Hitting home for me, too, Wonka....
I'm poaching this advice, and the link on boundaries.
Sorry for the thread-jack, GGG. We can duke it out at dinner
.
You bet, Shining!
Hey...Shining and GGG...please join me at the fire pit. I have my trusty amaretto with me. Feel free to bring your favs too.
Do I need to talk you off the ledge, GGG?
I have an abundance of brimstone to contribute....
Seems to be excess from the redecorating.
Right now I am unwilling to discuss anything hurtful because I'm in a fragile state.
So I want to nip that in the bud. I don't have to talk about the R or his divorce if I don't want to.
Only good thing--usually he says all the awful stuff via text/email--like wanting a divorce--did that in an email!!!--- or in the middle of a fight.
So maybe talking in person is positive sign?
If he thought I'd freak out, he'd do it electronically. (Coward)
He's afraid I'd go off on him.
Hmm... Let me think about this and calm down.
Man! So much for detachment!
I just feel the pain and hurt all over again... wondering what he's going to do to me next.
That FEAR.
It's a bugger.
---GGG
YES!!! I AM ON THE LEDGE AND THERE IS NO WINE IN THE HOUSE!!!!
I just want to tell him that I am not up to hearing bad stuff right now.
I'm just NOT.
I don't know if he sees I'm vulnerable and figures this is a good time to lay it on me.
Grrrrrrr......
Talk away.
I'm bordering on a panic attack here. Seriously.
Not a good ending to a good week.
This is when the Gods punish you for being too cocky....
--GGG
This is when the Gods punish you for being too cocky....
^^ not true at all. God is all Love.
Your stinkin' thinkin' is causing you to spin and you are trying to control your anxiety by outlining to GUBU what he can/can't do. Do you see that at all?
It could be that GUBU just wanted to talk about your health. Nothing about divorce or any of that stuff.
I think it is good that GUBU wants to talk with you. I seriously doubt it is R talk. A part of me suspects that he's concerned about your health for he sure does notice your weight loss.
And---this is when we need a "LIVE CHAT" function!
GGG, keep reading Wonka's posts to you. I'm in a bit of a dark spot, too... But neither one of us will benefit by spinning our wheels.
Let's both find ways to get calm and centered tonight, ok? I will if you will.
What are your favorite ways to de-compress? I could use some new ideas....
Maybe...maybe not.
It's the way he said "EXPECT to talk tomorrow."
Like another order from the boss.
It feels like once again he is telling me what to do.
Is it telling him what to do when I just say "I don't want to discuss that with you right now?"
---GGG
You're definitely spinning, my dear friend.
What's wrong with this general response?
You can simply say, "Sure...thanks for letting me know. It would be helpful to let me know ahead what it is that you wish to talk about tomorrow."
So, I heard wine?
What was another one...?
Ok..Ok....
Half the things I've worried about never happened.
And the things I did worry about the most never came to pass.
For example, I never worried about my husband cheating on me, for one thing.
I'm breathing.
You're probably right.
He doesn't come across well in writing.
But that angry, pushy text stuff.
That was so weird and I was prepared to ignore it, until it seems now HE is demanding to talk.
That's what's making me nervous, I guess.
Ugh.
And---this is when we need a "LIVE CHAT" function!
My opinion on that? I oppose it for the following reason:
It has the potential of leading DBers down some treacherous roads. Not good idea.
Thanks, Wonka.
I will use that. I'm going to sit on it a bit though.
But honestly, if he says--even in writing--that we need to move this D forward, or anything about what HE wants next that is going to be hurtful to me... I am not in a place to even read that right now.
So I want to tell him to hold that thought, not forever, but for awhile.
---GGG
And yes. WINE! Would be GOOD!
A good Pinot Noir...
But that angry, pushy text stuff.
That was so weird and I was prepared to ignore it, until it seems now HE is demanding to talk.
That's what's making me nervous, I guess.
Ugh.
It is within your power to request what GUBU wishes to talk about so you can make a determination if you're at a place to talk with him. You just don't know YET because you haven't responded to his text.
You mean like DBing Flirting?
Or DBing Hookups!!
Guess that could happen. Understandable why it's not set up like that.
I figured that was why no PM were allowed.
A lot of vulnerable people on here, looking for support and feeling unloved, sharing their deepest fears and dreams...
Yep. Could happen.
---GGG
Thanks, Wonka.
I will use that. I'm going to sit on it a bit though.
But honestly, if he says--even in writing--that we need to move this D forward, or anything about what HE wants next that is going to be hurtful to me... I am not in a place to even read that right now.
So I want to tell him to hold that thought, not forever, but for awhile.
---GGG
That is what self-care is all about. Smart choice.
Wonka,
So that would be OK?
To write back what you suggested, but add (upfront):
"I am not in a good place to receive any negative information right now so if you had something like that you wanted to share, I am open to discussing it, but at a later date. Thanks."
?????
Too wimpy/TMI ???
---GGG
Change of subject, GGG.
I do want to comment that I am with Bea about the animals. What I am seeing is that this venture is robbing you of your own vitality and health. It is a drain on your emotions, physical well-being, and social activities.
We all know that this is a decision that you don't and won't take lightly. However, I do ask you: Who's looking out for #1?? GUBU isn't a reliable guy and you may not be able to depend on him for a while while he's on Planet Zog to borrow from Bea.
I am concerned for you and your overall well-being. As you said previously, this isn't sustainable. You are a young woman in her 50's and I would hate to see you become a shell of the person that you are now in 5 years down the road.
As Bea said, there are other rescue centers that would gladly take on your animals. Then you'll have free time to finish up house projects, enjoy time with friends, and perhaps take on a job that will bring you some income.
I think this whole operation is a drain on both of you and GUBU.
What are your thoughts? You do not have to decide now. But I believe this is a conversation that you need to have with yourself and possibly with GUBU down the road.
To write back what you suggested, but add (upfront):[/b]
"I am not in a good place to receive any negative information right now so if you had something like that you wanted to share, I am open to discussing it, but at a later date. Thanks."
What I see here is that you're borrowing trouble with that approach. We do not know what GUBU wants to talk about at all. So by sending that general text, you'll be able to get some idea of what GUBU wants to talk about judging by his response. Make sense?
We will stay with you here. I'm keeping an eye out for you here.
Here's what I wanted to write, and honesty, I was feeling a lot better with my caveat in place!
Right now I really don't want to know if he is going to throw another grenade in my foxhole. Not today, not now.
I don't think it's a good idea for me to hear that he is ready to separate our finances, move in with OW, anything. Nothing like that.
I know you guys are here but that needs to wait.
Take my word for it. It NEEDS TO WAIT.
"GUBU,
Sure...thanks for letting me know you’d like to talk in person.
I agree that things don’t always come across as intended in text/email.
It would be helpful to let me know ahead of time what it is that you wish to discuss tomorrow.
However, I would appreciate it if you would hold off on sharing any upsetting information with me at this time.
I am not in a frame of mind to respond to it in a constructive way and that’s not fair to you and what you might have to say.
I don’t mean hold off forever, just until I get my feet back under me. I’ll let you know when that is.
Thanks,
--GGG"
He could say:
"I want to talk about moving forward with the D."
And then you can stick a fork in me, because I'll be DONE.
Seriously.
Back me up here... is it so bad to avoid this right now?
GGG,
I can see that you're feeling emotionally vulnerable right now and not feeling particularly strong at the moment. That is normal and very human too.
My suggestion?
Sleep on this tonight. Then re-assess tomorrow.
My fellow Spinner, GGG,
Perhaps take a step back, and identify what is within your control?
If you can't handle a potentially stressful or negative topic yet, then don't agree to have one.
We can't control what others wish to discuss. We can control whether we engage in it.
Get to a good, positive place, then be ready for anything. Because you can't know what someone else, especially in MLC, will say.
Wonka,
"Emotionally vulnerable" just begins to describe it.
I was doing pretty well until this week, finally realizing it's the anniversary of when I found OW and my life exploded.
That is why I have been so weird.
I am very fragile right now, really over-tired, not strong like I usually am.
I really don't feel like I can handle any more bad news right now.
---------------------
I understand that might not be what he has in mind, but the guy has been pretty much all over the map.
I feel I have a right to say what I will and will not discuss, and at what time.
This is not a good time to hear anything earth-shattering, trust me on that.
I am at one of my lowest points since all this happened so I feel I need to protect myself if I can.
I know I can't halt the inevitable, but I can delay it.
After a weekend boat trip, some time away, some distance... I will feel better.
But not today.
So yes. I can sleep on it.
But I don't think I'll feel differently tomorrow.
The only thing that might happen is he might initiate some other communication that points to a less stressful possibility.
Thanks for listening and talking me down, Wonka.
It's good to know you're out there, wherever you are!
----GGG
Shining,
At this point, I don't even want to READ that he wants to talk about something unpleasant tomorrow!
I know I can decline to discuss it, but I want to stop that brain-worm from crawling in. Once it's in, it's in for good. Even if we don't "talk" about it.
I need some more time to calm down, more than just overnight.
I guess I don't see why saying "IX-NAY on the AINFUL STUFF-PAY" is so wrong when I feel it's what I need to do to preserve my sanity at the moment.
---GGG
GGG,
Yes, the anniversary of our BD and discovery of the OW/OM can be tough to swallow. Funny, I had my moment when August 12th came and went. For me, August 12th will always be my BD when Ms. Wonka moved out with the OW. You just cannot ever forget the BD or whatever else happened.
I get that.
Even if you're still feeling this way tomorrow, you can always tell GUBU to take a rain check on the talk because you're overly tired and will not be able to focus on the talk. Thanks for his understanding in advance. Then leave it at that.
I figure that if it is not an emergency, it can wait another day or two. The sky will not fall down!
I hope you will find a way to take care of yourself tonight because you do deserve it.
I guess I don't see why saying "IX-NAY on the AINFUL STUFF-PAY" is so wrong when I feel it's what I need to do to preserve my sanity at the moment.
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that at all.
It's the expectation of another, to have respect for this request. Especially and MLCer (GUBU) who is already not respecting you or the marriage.
I myself am not advocating this, but I have heard others get to the point that they had to block a phone number so they would protect themselves from nasty text messages.
If your health is in jeopardy, you do what you have to do. Period.
I'm with Wonka.... See how you feel tomorrow. After a good night's sleep. It will be a new day.
Nothing is on fire.
Thanks, Wonka.
I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk.
This has happened before, he's wanted to talk, I've shut it down out of fear or just not being able to handle it.
We ended up never talking about anything.
So I don't want to blow him off if he's open to some dialogue.
I just can't handle getting more bad news.
Here is my final proposed email response:
" Gubu,
Sure, thanks for letting me know you'd prefer to talk in person.
(I agree, things don't always come across as intended in text/email.)
It would be helpful to let me know ahead of time what you'd like to discuss.
To be fair to you and what you might have to say, I am asking you to wait on revealing anything that might be hurtful right now because I don't think I will be able to respond to it in a constructive way.
I'll let you know as soon as I feel I can have an open dialogue about such things, if that's what you want.
Thanks,
---GGG"
I mean. THIS ^^^^ IS the TRUTH.
GGG,
Please know that I love you and you're loved deeply here!
((((GGG))))
Back atcha (((WONKA)))) !!!!!
Ditto, that
.
I'll be thinking of you tomorrow!! Positive thoughts dancing your way.....
Thanks guys...Sheesh..
Incidentally, should I be willing to have a "talk" AT ALL with a guy who was just so nasty about waiting 30 minutes and got angry when I didn't jump when he said "jump"?
Much less listening to anything HE wants right now.
Just saying'....
---GGG
And thanks, Shining.
You're right, that is an expectation that he will respect my request.
I honestly think he would, if only because he fears me getting emotional.
I know for a fact that's the LAST thing he would want!
I'm pretty sure he KNOWS that if he drops a bomb on me, it's not going to go well...
Or maybe all my DBing has shown him that this new "Calm, collected, never get my panties in a twist GGG" is the NEW ME. And that's the green light he's needed to feel safe enough to take the next step.
But you're right.
I'm talking myself into a mess that might not even exist....
Tonight--nothing to do, nowhere to go, stuck here as usual.
So not spinning is difficult right now.
---GGG
GGG,
You can land this triple salchow, triple toe loop in the short program. Yes you can!
Thanks, GB.
I think I can.. I think I can... I think I can...
Just maybe not this week.
---GGG
And here's my brain, making mountains out of molehills again:
All GUBU REALLY said was:
"Please expect to talk in person tomorrow. ---GUBU"
All that says is he wants to see me in person.
Weird that he signed his name, he never does that except when he's being really weird and trying to make a difficult point.
I haven't seen him since Wednesday.
He knows something is "wrong" with me since I'm not out slaving away as usual.
------------------------
But my reaction to this: You'd think the Apocalypse was upon us, for Pete's sake.
(Who is Pete, anyway?)
I can see how I overreact to things.
Just a few words from him, I twist them around, and make myself nuts.
There is so much fear underlying things, I can see that now.
I get a handle on it and do well for awhile, but then it just starts again.
A tragic case of the "What Ifs".
I am my own worst enemy as far as my anxiety is concerned.
Funny how I was never a particularly anxious person prior to this.
Never needing reassurance or feeling threatened.
I don't like being like this one bit. A big wuss. Scared of a little convo!
It's hard to wrap my head around how this all affects me... never thought it could happen.
----------------Anyhow----------UPDATE---------------
I IGNORED his text comment about talking tomorrow.
Instead I asked about practical things, what needed to be done for the animals (he bugged out of here really quick without finishing anything, so...) and whether or not there were keys for the new basement door lock.
He answered quickly-- yes, there were keys, yes he had one.
I said: "OK. Great that you were able to fix that. Thanks. It helps with feeling safer here alone."
H:--no answer for a long time---then "OK".
-------------------------------------
I figure to take Wonka's advice and sit on it for tonight.
See if anything else comes to light.
"Don't go off half-cocked", as they say.
See if he says or does anything else to give me an indication of his intent.
Send the email if I feel it's necessary.
Or just see him when he gets here tomorrow and test the waters, say what I have to say, then take a hike if he starts on some icky stuff!
He might just want to know that I'm not ill--he saw a letter from my OB-GYN, and I had a cancer scare last year at this time.
(Sadly, not that he cared at ALL, before, during, since.)
Who knows what's in that little single cell blob that passes for his brain nowadays? Not much empathy or compassion, that's for sure.
--------------------------------------
So I am going to have a pasta feed, watch a Zombie movie, and be glad there is no wine here, because I'd probably drink too much of it and feel like crap tomorrow.
I'm feeling more centered now.
Thanks, y'all.
---GGG
And here's my brain, making mountains out of molehills again:
All GUBU REALLY said was:
"Please expect to talk in person tomorrow. ---GUBU"
Now maybe this illustrates why I always say to have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Sorry, Cadet.
I am dense.
I'm not sure what you mean by this ^^^^.
It it that we BOTH have expectations?
---GGG
hey hi gg
just checkin in- you know, alot of what you describe - fits me also. I'm a bit in this longer - and i'd like to think one bit more "even" about it. but it's the same old thing- one does have fear (it's normal i think- get burned , keep away from fire, etc.). i'm not sayin we can't get a tighter control on "it", self, what4ever. i've got more patience and self-control than ever. then in other areas i see myself slip off some edge a bit- rant- carry on. reel me back in- try to keep emotions in check. try to keep my imagination in check- it is my worse enemy - tthen i find self thinking 'BUT WHAT if" that ole imagination is right. and then, and then, .....
it's hard- i succeed-fail- - dust self off, get up, continue. i expect alot more of me than i do of anyone else. i guess we know what we think we're capable of.
someone told me to treat me as i would my best friend-
i try and remember.
i read few days ago a daily "thought" about surendering. not necessarily as in admitting defeat - but in the sense of giving up once and for all in trying to alter, fix, change what is at the moment.
i'm aiming for that- i'm waaaay better. i'm not perfect.
we're just humans who have alot of stress & pain . just my two cents- you're doing okay all in all- don't expect yourself to be able to incorporate allll these db "rules" and regulations immediately and implement perfectly.
i'd say, on the whole, they are a good philosophy and something to use to aim for our goal. Even if the goal is to escape this all entirely without being too "broken" by it- it helps, the forum helps - i wonder every day how long i can do this- then i do one more day.
good luck- xxo
Thanks, nero.
You've been at this longer than I have and I value what you have to say.
No... I definitely do NOT want to touch the fire again!
This is the email I decided on.
A miracle of brevity for the old GGG!
"Gubu,
Thanks for letting me know you prefer to talk in person.
Is there something on your mind?"
---GGG
I sent it, heart is pounding.
FEAR--BE GONE!!!!!
With this ^^^^ email, I am coming across the way I want.
Supportive, open.. someone he can feel comfortable talking to.
Someone strong and unlikely to freak out.
I gave him an opening...
This creates positive feelings and attraction.
---------------------------
The other craziness I considered writing showed a person who is hurting, who reminds him of all the pain he has caused, who makes him feel guilty and uncomfortable.
That would create negative feelings and avoidance.
--------------------
It's all Amoeba training!
Sometimes being the trainer is hard, though.
I had to remind myself of my goals, stop spinning, and focus on what I can control.
I can always walk away, or agree to talk another time.
I need not agree to ANYTHING, even any conversation.
"There is nothing to fear but fear itself." Right?
RIGHT!
-----GGG
Ooohhhhhh.... Spinning is STUPID!!!!ME: "Thanks for telling me you want to talk in person. Is there something on your mind?"He just wrote back:"Nope. JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW YOU ARE SINCE IT SEEMED LIKE YOU WERE SICK" !!!!!!!!!
Am I dope or what?And too bad he didn't take the opening.
Maybe to tell me OW was long gone from the workplace, what his "mystery appointments" have been about, if his friend is EVER going to kick him out from his rent-free situation, (six months so far), you know, relevant information.
Won't hold my breath for that to happen anytime soon.
-----------------------------------
Meanwhile, this whole thing did get me thinking.
We
do need to start talking about some things.
And I still do need some help around here if I am to stay healthy.
--------------------------------------
Bea, Wonka---
I know there are rescues who take dogs---we are one of them!!!! My dogs are not "adoptable" which is why they're here.
We have taken the old, tiny, and decrepit from our local SPCA for years, they do the vaccines, licensing, etc. at this point. Minimal medical care.
I think there have been well over 50 since we started.
They are "permanent fosters", in that we are fostering them, but the only place they go from here is to the Rainbow Bridge.
And some are just in a hospice placement.
I'm just not up for euthanizing a bunch of my little babies if I don't absolutely have to. Talk about your punch in the gut...
They're old, blind, infirm, with various ailments and personality issues.
Puppy mill dogs who were so unsocialized that they were catatonic, that sort of things. Fear-biting, screaming, psycho 2 pound Chihuahuas with no hair...
I do very well with these hard cases. Maybe that's why GUBU and I lasted so long!
I love your regular old "doggy type dogs" too, just never had any.
The ones here are either physically or mentally damaged. No families or dog parks for them. Wish I could post a few pics.
Anyhow.
A lot of craziness for nothing.
One of these days, I WILL learn my lesson.
The fact that you believe it, doesn't make it true!Everybody have a lovely day.
I am going to lie down with a cool rag over my eyes...
---GGG
GGG!!!! Sooooo glad things weren't even a big deal at all! And he was checking on YOU!!!! Gotta love those glimpses of humanity when we see 'em.
A lot of craziness for nothing.
Perfect description of MLC, too.
The fact that you believe it, doesn't make it true!
^^^ love this, too!!
Reminds me of another one, "Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean people aren't out to get me!"
Wait! It gets better!
I followed with this email.
(No, didn't consult my Oracles, just went with my gut!)
"Gubu,
Thanks for your concern. I am doing OK, but there is more to that story.
I do want to talk with you at some point about ways we can make this living situation healthier and safer for me and the kids.
It doesn't have to be today, but maybe think about how you could help with that.
And I do need to share some things with you.
(No worries, "Pavlovian Puppy", nothing awful, OK?
See ya later,
---GGG"
H: "Then we'll talk after the weekend... I have to prepare for my (work thingy) and funeral in the morning." (Who died? OW? Get me a tissue...)
" Why don't you spell out what you want...that will be easier for me to understand... since I'm not there."
(I think the "since I'M NOT THERE" might be telling...)
Hmmmmmmm.
What next, Wise DBers?
----GGG
Thanks Shining!
I feel a bit foolish, but that's the thing about anxiety.
It feeds off itself.
*Sigh*
---GGG
Sorry, Cadet.
I am dense.
I'm not sure what you mean by this ^^^^.
It it that we BOTH have expectations?
---GGG
Well let me rephrase this if possible,
What was it that was getting you all uptight about talking to your husband?
Was it something you EXPECTED him to say?
I guess he didn't say what you expected and you worked yourself up basically for nothing.
You go back and re-read your last thread and a half and try to take a step back from it and see it as an outsider.
DETACHED.
You might see that you have lots of expectations and that leads to you spinning all around.
Then how does your husband view that?
He thinks that you are sick or not feeling well?
What are the parts of this is something that you can CONTROL and what parts can you not CONTROL?
That is what I see, from my point on the outside, looking in.
Thank you, Cadet.
I always value what you have to say.
I wish I were better at taking your advice, or even my own advice for that matter!
Sometimes it seems I am better suited to dishing it out...
I do struggle with getting bogged down in details, from what people say and the information I take in. It's very confusing in my head, so sometimes I do feel very dense and I frequently miss the simplest and most obvious explanation.
When I hear hoofbeats, I think Onagers!
-----------------------------
I actually do understand what you're saying. I didn't even have to read the whole thread and a half, (although I will), to get what you mean.
It's hard to internalize it though.
I have a lot of expectations. Not just for GUBU, but in general. For myself.
I'm not sure this is always the case, but I have been on an "expectational downslide" ever since opening up to GUBU more.
It was much easier to be detached when I had very limited contact with him.
I could harden my heart and tune him out.
Opening up just a little has left me feeling extremely vulnerable to being hurt.
---------------------------
Now that he is alternating being friendly and chatty with being weird and nasty, it's hard to know what I'm dealing with.
And yes, I "know" that I will never really know what I'm dealing with, so I should just stop spending any time thinking about him and what he's thinking/doing.
On the other hand, being able to assess how he is responding is necessary to continue DBing. I need to do more of what works.
It's really hard to know what's working, what's backfiring, what's cake-eating/friend-zoning, what's responsible/modeling, vs. being a doormat.
As I've said, the finer points of human interaction are often lost on me and I have to work very hard to "get it" sometimes.
______________________________
I see that the increased contact has lead to increased anxiety on my part.
Clearly I am not as detached as I thought I was.
(Deep down, I knew I wasn't, but I felt good about my detachment sometimes.)
And I do struggle with an over-active imagination. It is a blessing, but at times like these, it's a curse.
Catastrophizing and "What-IFing" all over the place.
So I will work on eliminating expectations, re-read my older threads as if somebody else wrote them, re-read DB and DR again... Every time I do, I get something new.
___________________________________
Spinning? Absolutely.
You're right. I am not helping myself at all and I need to take better care of myself; not let crazy thoughts take over.
I am aware of what I can and cannot control.
It's getting away from the emotional attachment to a certain outcome, even with that knowledge, that's a sticking point for me.
--------------------------------------------
As for what my H thinks, I have been behaving very differently the last few days because I have not been feeling well.
My appointment with my shrink Thursday forced me to start resting and just let things go.
I told H I just needed some space, was tired, a lot going on.... (anniversary of D-Day, didn't say that.) etc.
Usually on Fri-Sun I'd be out busting my back end doing chores and getting projects done and going out dancing.
Being quiet and resting was very unusual for me.
No doubt this made him curious.
I let him think whatever he wanted.
I admit it was passive-aggressive of me, but if he worried about me dropping dead on him, I thought. "GOOD!" I felt like dropping dead might be a good option at a few points there.
Better for everyone all around...
So I figured, let him think I'm sick.
Maybe he'll show some freaking compassion for someone for a change.
(EXPECTATION!!!!!!)
Really, I was just feeling sorry for myself and that's that.
------------------------
Thanks for your concern, Cadet.
You are a comfort to me--a voice of reason.
I'll keep on it. I promise.
---GGG
OK. Time to throw up! WARNING--LONG POST AHEAD.
I had a bizarre interaction with GUBU.
But Cadet, you were in my ear.
NO EXPECTATIONS!
ACT ONE: SCENE ONE: We agreed we'd talk a bit--he was very tense, petting a dog instead of looking at or speaking to me.
He asked what was up, I told him what my doc said, that it was unhealthy for me to live like this, worried about my weight loss, etc.
He agreed that it was too much for me, had concerns that I wasn't able to take care of things.
He validated me about not getting out of the house, being socially isolated, overloaded, no sleep. He gets it!
(I'm thinking YAY! HE GETS IT!!!)
I said: "We don't need to solve it today, but that maybe we could come up with some solutions and talk about it later."I kept trying to steer it into "
think about it and let's talk later" but he had other ideas.
He presses: "What do you want to do? What are you asking for?" "I mean, I'm up here almost every day, helping out. What ELSE do you WANT?"(Prickles starting up the back of my neck. OK, he thinks he's helping out a lot and being a really GREAT GUY! How could I ask for more???)
Me:
"Well, I need more help, either from you or maybe hire somebody."Him: "Not to be a chit, but maybe it's best that YOU move out and I"ll HIRE somebody.'(Not mean, just cold.)
Me: "Well, that's an option, but the last time I was gone and you hired someone, they really weren't able to keep up with things. (A lot more is needed than just letting the dogs out mid-day. The place was a disaster when I returned, and he'd worked half days most of that time.)
Him: "Well, these dogs aren't going to have "this" (gestures around the place)
forever."
"Eventually, their reality is going to have to change."
M: "Maybe so, but in the meantime, maybe there is a way we can improve the situation."H: "Well, I can take care of this place better than you. I can do the livestock, etc."(Of course, working 70 hours a week makes that difficult, but whatever.)
SCENE TWO: HERE IS WHERE I WENT OFF THE RAILS:Me: "You do know that if I move away from here, I won't be involved on any level. I mean, I will be 'gone'. (Aiming for a "Truth Dart". No friends, no help, I'm OUTTA HERE!)
Him: Coldly "I figured that would be the case."Me: Looking uncomfortably around: "Well, thanks for bringing the coffee, dog food. We don't have to discuss this any more now. I'll do as you asked and give you some suggestions."Him: "I just don't think you can do this alone either. You can't keep doing this alone." (Words to that effect.)
Me: "I agree. But I'm not in a position to move right now, nor to leave my animals. So to me the only real options right now are you being available to help more, or me hiring outside help."Then I changed the subject to my upcoming boat trip... we talked about that for awhile.
I was playing it as cool as possible.---------------
ACT TWO: SCENE ONE:He comes in the house to bring in the bags of dog food. I have recovered most of my PMA (on the surface.)
We chit-chat nicely about the mortgage, his sick friend, how MUCH MONEY HE MAKES...
how great he is at work.How he might go visit sick friend,
how great he is at work...I asked him "if he was OK... if anything was up with him, (suggesting "medically").He looks at me funny, says: "No... why?"I said: "
I dunno. Just a weird vibe... just wanted to make sure you're OK."
(Mystery appointments, strange stuff on insurance, hoping (brief expectation) that he'd mention he was in therapy... NOPE!!! He's perfect!)
Him: "No. I'm really doing FINE! I'm a bit stressed at work is all, been doing my bike rides."(Doesn't look very comfortable as he says this though.)
Me: "That's great. It really is nice to know you're back in the saddle."I am validating, not interrupting...
SCENE TWO:Me: "Anything new at work?"Him: "BLAH BLAH earful about how he's better at working with men, women are so difficult, how this person and that person tick him off, how he is being offered a job near where we live but he makes SO much money... he's so great... SHARK EYES--IT"S ALL ABOUT ME-----blah blah blah."(I'm thinking, if I were on a date with this dude, I'd shoot myself. And yes, I am fishing to see if he will mention that OW is GONE... and he is not going there, definitely avoiding mentioning it.)
Then he makes a mistake. He mentions flying in someone to interview for a "certain" department position.
I ask--(Dumb, I know, but I KNOW it's OW's job!!!)
"Oh really? Which department?" (It would be a normal question any other time.)
H: Looking at the wall mumbles: "XXX (OW's) Department."And he sees my face.I didn't say anything, I wasn't angry or tearful. But he saw it in my face.
I can't hide this stuff.
And I said, regrouping like a pro!"Oh, so you are having luck finding someone to fill that slot? That's great." And then feel myself start to unravel....
And I say: 'Ok then, thanks for bringing the food. Would you excuse me?"(Not teary, still softly, ready to beat it out of there.)
He says--exasperated: "Oh GOAT GAL! She left MONTHS ago.!"Me: Softly, not angry or crying: "Months ago? I wish you had told me. I guess it was a hard thing to bring up, so I understand."Him: Sort of nasty now: "Goat Gal, there is no REASON to have told you. There just isn't."Me:"I can see why you would feel that way. But still it would have been nice to know."
H: "Well, it doesn't matter anymore" (or something like this, I was walking away at this point.)
SCENE THREE: Here's My Mistake:Me: "Can I just say one thing?" (MY WORST COMMENT--A REAL TRIGGER FOR HIM!!!)
Him: Calmly, stops walking, still has his back to me. "Sure. What?"Me: "Remember when you promised that if there was anything you could tell me that would help me feel more secure and less stressed, that you would just tell me.? Well, this would have been one of those things."Him, not quite storming down the stairs, but clearly p*ssed off:"Good NIGHT!"And th-th-th-th-THAT's ALL, FOLKS!---------------------------------------------------
On the positive side, I was listening and validating and DBing my butt off. It wasn't perfect, but it was a far cry from how I would have reacted a few months ago.
It is so painful to see this man talk to me this way, for him to get angry when I SHOW ANY EMOTION that might point to him having done something wrong.
I mean, it was fleeting across my face. I looked uncomfortable, at most.
And it makes him ANGRY.
At ME. At least that's what it looks like.
I don't expect to hear from him in awhile.
He is really like a pod person.
He actually frightens me on some level.
He's really missing--what did Wonka call it? His "EMPATHY CHIP"?It's really all about him and it sure seems as though he thinks we're DONE, just waiting to get those papers signed and get this baby over with. I am NOTHING TO HIM. Not by that conversation.
I just fulfill a purpose, and clearly I'm falling short on that one so I should just leave.
But then here he is, enjoying talking with me. (Talking AT me is more like it!)
He goes on and on and on---about HIMSELF!!!
I am merely an audience.
He is really angry at me now. Has been for a few days.
It's hard to see this hardness and cycling. It makes me hate him. It really does.
He is cold, and he is ugly on the inside. Not looking so hot on the outside either.
He is TOXIC.
Boo on him.
No. I don't want to be married to this freak. There is something seriously wrong with the man.
Everybody can see it but HIM.
But damn. HE DIDN'T MAKE ME CRY and HE DIDN'T MAKE ME LOSE MY COOL.
---GGGPS: And if I were to put on my mind-reading cap, which I am NOT, I would surmise that he is upset with himself that he waited so long to tell me that OW was gone.
He knows I would have liked to have heard that and I think there was a point at which he wanted to tell me but couldn't find the words.
And the rest, the
"Sure, I knew you'd be gone forever and it doesn't bother me one iota" stance--the last thing he will do admit he's made a mistake, that he has created this situation, that he wants to come home but wants ME to ask him to.
That he needs me, wants me, or fears losing me.
Better to say--"Sure. No problem. Go ahead!"
Damn. The man should have been a Divorce Buster!
I think he's angry because I AM NOT ASKING HIM TO COME BACK.
Clearly, that's a "solution" that I deliberately did not mention.
And he certainly noticed that.
Just sayin'
Mind reading cap---OFF!!!
Oh yeah. Duh.
I remember now.
He has never been able to handle anything he perceives as "Criticism".
Any complaint, statement, or dissatisfaction he interprets as a major attack.
That's why his reaction seemed OH so familiar!
He would react the same way if I asked him if he let the dogs out....
All out of proportion.
Recently, he is HYPER SENSITIVE to the same thing.
And there ya go!
Me being unhappy or disappointed is a DIRECT BLOW TO HIS EGO.
Pathetic case closed.
---GGG
Ok, I TOTALLY could have read this wrong because I'm not there, and I only have a tiny little outsider's snapshot of your world.... BUT.... And I mean BIG BUTTTTTTT.....
I interpreted this part quite differently than I think you did:
Him: "I just don't think you can do this alone either. You can't keep doing this alone." (Words to that effect.)
Is there any chance GUBU was waiting to be asked to come back and be the one to help?
He has never been able to handle anything he perceives as "Criticism".
Any complaint, statement, or dissatisfaction he interprets as a major attack.
That's why his reaction seemed OH so familiar!
Is there any chance he could be a big bully who is really afraid of being rejected? Hence the inability to ASK TO COME BACK AND RISK REJECTION, or take criticism? These are some of the VERY COPING SKILLS THEY LACK that sent them into this MLC mess, right?
So, he won't ask because of the fear of rejection. He hints. But not very well, and old patterns and old assumptions cloud the simple words the way I read them without knowing either of you.
I'm probably way off.... But if he DID want to come back and be the one to help, what would that look like? How would he let you know? He didn't let you know OW was gone....right?
And OW.... MY GUESS, he didn't want to tell you because he would rather never talk about that again. To him, it wasn't a positive to tell you she's gone, because that would mean talking about THE VERY THING he doesn't want to bring up. Especially to you.
(Insert shame, guilt, insecurity, regret).
Being in MLC, and incapable of truly thinking about the LBS, he didn't tell you because HE couldn't face it. I doubt the thought of making you feel better (or worse for that matter) even crossed his mind. Because he isn't wired to do that now. He just can't.
I'm guessing that your tiny little body being worked to the bone is something of a drastic change because even he can't ignore that.
(((((SHINING)))))
I'm so glad you're here!!!
I think you hit it right on the head.
Yes. I think he wants ME to ask HIM to come home. Pride, fear of rejection. You got it.
I just remembered something else I said before he went into the
"I assumed you'd be gone forever, not a problem, we'll be GREAT without you!" zone.
I'd said:
"I didn't mention being overwhelmed before this because it's not for you to fix anymore.
I mean, you are no longer that person for me..."
Wow. I just realized that's what I'd said.
This was Me, thinking I'm taking the pressure off, where what I really did was REJECT ANY BID HE MADE TO TAKE CARE OF ME!
I shot him down before he even got started.
I agree, he feels guilt and inadequacy because he is unable to do what it takes to make this better.
Because he DOES see what I'm going through, and he does care.
Deep down, under all that mask of stone, I think that's the truth of it.
I think it was Cadet, among other vets, who said, that THEY ARE REALLY ANGRY AT THEMSELVES, NOT WITH US.
Thanks, Shining.
A most excellent response!
---GGG
You're welcome.
If PRIDE is a big currency for him, maybe in order to get to where you both want to be, try to keep him from feeling as though he's begging, and praise him when things are his idea?
If you're REALLY good, he can even think things WERE his idea, when in actuality they were not
(Yeah, let ME tell YOU about dog training....LMAO).
You got this, GGG.
Yeah! You mean like:
"OK, GUBU, here's that list of possible solutions.
Gee... Is there ANYTHING you think I MISSED?
Hmmm....seems like there should be another option...
Maybe someone can move in downstairs, I mean, you did put in that full bath.... But for the life of me I can't think of anyone who needs a place to live with the added plus of knowing how to take care of things around here...do you?
Well, it must have slipped my mind, seems like there was a kernel of a good idea in there somewhere, but it's gone now. Darn."
Shining, I'm sure you'd be an awesome dog trainer.
Dogs today, slimy Amoebas tomorrow!!!!
---------GGG
He has never been able to handle anything he perceives as "Criticism".
Any complaint, statement, or dissatisfaction he interprets as a major attack.
Once again, I conclude that we are married to the same man.
Sucky for both of us.
Maybe someone can move in downstairs, I mean, you did put in that full bath.... But for the life of me I can't think of anyone who needs a place to live with the added plus of knowing how to take care of things around here...do you?
Well, it must have slipped my mind, seems like there was a kernel of a good idea in there somewhere, but it's gone now. Darn."
BWWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! Yes!!!! That's EXACTLY it!!!
Actually, I have, ahem.....seen it work a time or two.... Other people. FRIENDS of other people. And it was their kids parents cousin's step brother's accountant's babysitter, I think. Not me. You didn't think it was me, did you??
Can't hurt!
Omg, GGG, you're a HOOT.
GGG not being able to handle criticism is part of their fragile personality. They do not have the flexibility and adaptability to to roll with the punches.
Now, it seems to me that there is a range of MLC from the relatively simple where they go through the stages, and come out the other side, to the complicated ones where they stay in MLC because they can't get out.
If your h wants to come out of MLC he will need encouragement, but it doesn't always work. That is the problem. We have to be brave and risk failure ourselves.
If you want him back (and that becomes increasingly problematic, believe me, however much we love them) then it is worth a good try and a lot of rejection along the way.
There are no formulas for this, simply things that can work, and other thins that actually don't.
Ultimately it is up to them - all we can do is try and help the process, and show them it might be possible.
The nice and nasty is the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hde that peple refer to. You never know which one is currently at home, and they can switch within a conversation, back and forth.
I would say your husband is very very conflicted, and his pride and fear are very big factors here. He needs to come back to rescue you, but there is always a risk he might resent the being needed. It is so hard to knwo, and very often they do not know themselves, at all.
I am somewhat with your husband in that I dont understand the importance of the OW being gone.
He is still very deep in crisis so that maybe a chapter of one cheeseless tunnel is complete but their are still millions more to try to go down.
IMHO you dont want him back while he is still in crisis, but that is just my opinion.
Get back to Letting Go and detaching, and trying to move forward with your life.
His life is not going to make any sense while he is in MLC and tbh is a waste of your time.
This is the hard question, what do you want YOUR life to look like?
^^^^^^^^^
Cadet nailed this GGG. Good advice from Bea as well. You can only do what you can do. Your h has to deal with his stuff. And that is all on him.
GG,
Your h's empathy chip is broken and right now, it's all about him. You can't rely on him to be the man he once was. If you need help, then I would start looking for someone to help out around there. Maybe he is hoping you'll ask him to return home, but I wouldn't want him in the shape he's in right now. If you think you've got anxiety and stress now, it would be far worse w/him there 24/7.
It's going to take a while for your h to move through his crisis and there is nothing that is going to change that. If you find a way to "snatch" him back to reality, well...later on he will have another crisis to finish up the current one and it will be far worse.
Learn to save yourself first. You can't do anything about your relationship or him for the time being. I know you want him home and back into you life full time, but he's got to finish up his crisis first. You can't fix him...he has to do that.
Take care of yourself...that's the number one priority. Your body has been telling you it needs rest and changes in your life. Today is a new day, start your search for some help, even if it's part time, it's a step in the right direction.
Yup to job ^^. Nothing to add except to be on guard for your stinkin' thinkin'. GUBU cannot handle any R-related talks...much less the XOW! He can only handle so much at one time.
The too sensitive bit seems all too common.
Mine is far to sensitive and uses it in a way as a weapon of getting you to do his way. I think they need to just heal or not be so overly sensitive. That you cannot help him with, you can help by trying to be understanding etc but you cannot be something your not to make him happy. Truely
Thank you everyone for your feedback here. I'll go "Bottoms Up"! vvvv ^^^^
Ggrass: Yes. Far too sensitive. The fact that he got so reactive when all I said was "Oh" when he told me OW was gone... maybe missed a beat, looked a little surprised...
He says "What do you MEAN--"OH"???"
Like I was a psycho for having any reaction to this. I'm human.
She slept with my husband. (That's putting it nicely!)
He saw her almost every day until she left.
So-- I think "Oh." was a pretty friggin' cool response, considering!
And I agree, it's not my job to make him happy.
I have enough on my plate keeping me happy.
He has to figure out that it's not another person that will fix what's ailing him.
--------------------------------
Wonka: "Stinkin' thinking' "---absolutely.
Wait 'til you read my update!!!
Thanks for being there when I needed you.
Maybe that's why your Chocolate Factory is so popular!
--------------------------------
job: His Empathy chip is definitely malfunctioning!
As well as his Honesty Drive, Insight Meter, Maturity Gauge, Emotional Equalizer, Fidelity Plug In, ...the Logical Network is down for needed repairs until further notice, and the Mental Operating System is running very slowly indeed.
He is also do for an upgrade: An Accessibility Program should be installed to facilitate the interface with approved users....
I am putting myself first, and making plans to get the help I need if he doesn't step up. If things don't get done, they don't get done.
He knows I am no longer able. We shall see that happens next!
-------------------------------------
Cadet/Georgiabelle: The departure of OW is significant because he knew that I've been waiting for this information.
Whether or not HE believes it is relevant is not the point, although I get why he'd think that way. It's not important to HIM, therefore, not important.
He knew it was very important to me to know she was gone, that it has been a source of pain.
He had been updating me on how she's been looking for another position.
FYI: He worked with her every day, they had lots of freedom to fool around. During the A they used to hook up in empty rooms during work hours at least daily.
So yeah, I wanted to know she was gone.
And he could have just given me that bit of information, just to be nice.
If he were normal...---------------------------------------
Beatrice: Fragile is exactly it. He can't handle anything, really. He is a mess. I'm trying to manage my emotions, and I feel like I also have to handle his reactions.
He needs to learn how to manage his OWN emotions, but meanwhile he's all over the map and dealing with him is like being in a prizefight:
"Duck, dodge, right, left, uppercut---float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"
I am trying to walk that fine line between encouragement, detachment, not pursuing, but being supportive and "safe". It's not easy. I don't want to be his therapist, but I always feel like I'm wearing my Therapist Hat.
"Say this, not that, actively listen, validate, feedback.... "
Bea, thanks for your continued support!
----------------------------------
Shining: Well--you're very shiny! A real beacon.
And you crack me up!
---------------------------------
You guys ROCK and I really think I'd be in the kooky house if it weren't for this board!
---GGG
Beatrice: Fragile is exactly it. He can't handle anything, really. He is a mess. I'm trying to manage my emotions, and I feel like I also have to handle his reactions.
He needs to learn how to manage his OWN emotions, but meanwhile he's all over the map and dealing with him is like being in a prizefight:
"Duck, dodge, right, left, uppercut---float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"
I am trying to walk that fine line between encouragement, detachment, not pursuing, but being supportive and "safe". It's not easy. I don't want to be his therapist, but I always feel like I'm wearing my Therapist Hat.
"Say this, not that, actively listen, validate, feedback.... "
---GGG H is actively trying to throw the a in my face via third parties, yet me being active on settlement and walking away is childish?
Mmmm he keeps trying to bait me, yet hasn't noticed I've walked away.
They cannot see why they have done anything hurt full. Period. Busted completely busted.
Whooooo! Thanks for the laughs!
Here's a Gobstopper for your efforts, sweetie.
You guys ROCK and I really think I'd be in the kooky house if it weren't for this board!
Honey, you're already in the MLC Kooky House...as if you don't already know by now. Now...there's a nice sauna down the hall right next to the MLC Museum.
Thought there were strippers and bars! Lol
SO--CHECK OUT THIS FASCINATING UPDATE!!!!Last night I sent GUBU a text--putting on my BGPs, and making an emotional bid. (Yes I'm reading Gottman.)
Me: "
That wasn't easy to talk about, (the OW leaving, me needing help, "the future"), so I do appreciate your listening to what I had to say, and for being concerned about my welfare."He sends: "Night"Me: "And there is no one I'd want to help me more than you, so if you can, that would be my choice."----------------------------------------
That was all the communication until he got here this evening to do chores. I didn't see him, was busy inside.
H: After he left: "Hope you're OK"H: "I may need you to cover tomorrow if Male Co-worker and I need to take the new (OW's position) candidate to dinner. I'll keep you posted."
(
IMPRESSIVE!) Giving me his plans and mentioning the "(ow's) position" that caused so much trouble last night.
He even mentioned the specific department, which he has avoided saying for six months now.
The Village: "Those about whom we do not speak"...Wow.
I was waiting to respond, then THIS:
H: "And BTW, since you are so concerned about my mental health, I have been seeing a guy for over a month...."I KNEW IT!!! WONKA WAS RIGHT!!!
That was the mystery appointment that Friday.
I bet it WAS the special sexual behavior clinic. It all makes sense.
They refer patients out to specialists after the lengthy Friday evaluations.
Wow. I mean. WOW.
------------------------------------
I am not going to let myself go down the road where this "guy" might be advocating Viagra + Dating to fix the sexual "problem".
I'm just going to be happy!
I'll sure I'll get some more information later if I keep the lines open.
I stopped nagging him--and he DID IT ON HIS OWN.
And not for me. For HIMSELF. This is SO much better.So all those weird MIAs were not "dates", they were therapy appointments!
I'm so glad I didn't get all bent out of shape about it and give him grief.
Again, this would have been good information to know, but for whatever reason, he wanted to keep it private.
I'm just glad he's done it.
Stinkin' Thinkin' indeed!!!! All that stressing for nothing. I am really proud of him. There is a man in there somewhere.
--------------------------
So I just texted back: (Trying to validate and make another emotional bid)
"I am OK, thanks.""BTW, I am impressed that you decided to pursue that on your own...and even more that you shared it with me."!!!!!! How was THAT??????
I am really proud of my performance last night. It wasn't perfect, but it was a far cry from what I would have been able to pull off a few months ago.
I created a safe environment for him to share, knowing that I was not going to blow up or go off.
I showed some emotion in my face, but was pretty darn under control.
Perhaps now he might feel safer to tell me more.
Time will tell.
BUT THIS IS BIG NEWS!
And yes, I know it could mean nothing for "me" or for "us" but it's a HUGE step for him, in the right direction, finally.
And the fact that he shared that with me is also huge.
GO ME!
Georgiabelle, I did land that triple toe leap sow-cow reverse split thingy on the ice. I think I did. Maybe a solid 8.5.
---GGG
GGG,
This is what happens when you drink the STFU juice and bide your time. Good job!
The only advice I would offer is to be very sparing with your emotional bids because the MLCer, while in the crisis, cannot handle too much of it. I've read Gottman's books and I think those emotional bids are good for people who are already in healthy R's/M's. Those emotional bids are what bonds a couple and builds up the R.
MLC? Not so much. The MLCer is a different animal altogether and I think Gottman wouldn't know what to do with it if it hit him right on the nose.
Just be mindful of this, ok?
Another thing--
Me: "And there is no one I'd want to help me more than you, so if you can, that would be my choice."Try to be a tad more careful with this type of approach. To me, in reflecting back on my MLC experience, it just introduces more pressure on an already stressed state of mind for the MLCer. We're fragile...remember?
I'm not seeing GUBU stepping up much in helping you out with the farm chores. If you have to as the occasion arises, go ahead and hire that young Huck Finn guy for certain tasks/jobs to reduce the burden on you.
Good feedback, Wonka.
I haven't digested all the Gottman stuff yet, but my Goaty Sense tells me that GUBU does need a little propping up in the ego department.
(And other departments, but we won't go there...)
Thinking back on our talk last night, and how he really seemed to be negatively responding to that "you're not the person anymore" statement I made, I wanted to clarify that I wasn't looking to bring in anybody, that I would prefer that he help me.
It's honest. He can decline. I said "IF you can." But I see what you mean.
-----------------------------------------
I was trying to do a bass-akwards "Words of Appreciation" LL approach.
I agree; a sprinkling of this is best---just a peanut every now and then.
"Intermittent Rewards" work best anyway!
(Remind me one of these days to tell you about my childhood friend, Tuffy the squirrel. I had a LOT of patience as a lonely kid.)
His other LL to GIVE is "Acts of Service"; that's pretty much it for him.
So allowing him to "do" for me, really appreciating it, (and I admit, over time I took it for granted because I was resentful about so many other things. You know--quit mowing the lawn and TALK to me, for Pete's sake!), is a 180 for me.
I was surprised when he fixed my bike.
That, for him, is a loving act.
-------------------------------------
Allowing him--not telling him-- to do more around here might give me more opportunities to appreciate what he does for me.
I am sparing about asking unless I really need something.
But he really does seem to like it when I ask for his help with the things he's good at.
I won't push--I just opened the door a crack.
I am OK with him saying "no".
So--NO EXPECTATIONS.
But I will take your advice.
I gave him a little opening, a peanut or two.
Now it's time to just sit in my swing and see whether the squirrel comes back...Maybe there's a peanut in my pocket, maybe not.
But I didn't spook the squirrel!
Or the Amoeba travels to the brighter side of the Petrie dish...
Or... shoot. I'm out of metaphors.
It's all good in the Triple G hood tonight.
----GGG
((((HUGS, AND DRUGS!!!!)))))
Yes, another sleep aid tonight and then I should be good with a few solid zzzzzs under my belt.
Cadet,
I want to respond to your other statements.
You pegged it weeks ago when you said he was in replay.
No doubt about it. He has a long way to go.
I don't expect that I will be able to hold out until his crisis is over; I might have moved on by then, especially if he does divorce me.
So even with glimmers of my former H in there, I am under no illusion that he will soon change for the better, if ever.
As for what I want my life to look like, it wouldn't look much different from how it does now, with the exception of having a livable house, less animals to care for, no crazy husband.
No husband at all would be just peachy with me.
If this one doesn't finish baking before the timer goes off, I think that will be my last attempt at matrimony.
I am happy on my own, just wish I had less responsibilities so I could travel and socialize more. I'd like to make more money performing, DJing, and selling my sculpture.
I like my life. I like who I am, my animals, my farm, my friends.
I have many things which give me joy----I've had my share of pain too, especially now, but I'm still a happy, positive person overall.
I find life to be a great adventure. This has been a hell of a chapter, but it ain't over yet!
-------------------------
I find my ability to detach comes and goes. It's harder being in closer contact with him. It leaves me more vulnerable.
But I'm working on it.
I'm sure if I moved to Switzerland after hitting the lottery, I'd be detached in a hurry!
Thanks for the guidance, Cadet.
I hope I am not letting you down.
I do get a little wacky sometimes with anxiety.
At least I've learned to ramble on here and not in the real world.
I'm really not as crazy in real life.
I mean, not usually!
You have a great night, wherever you are.
Your Pal,
-----GGG
GG,
It's time to think about hiring someone to help out w/those heavy lifting/duty jobs around your place. Try not to put any pressure on your h because he can't handle it right now. Also, when texting him, keep your texts very short and to the point. H's brain is full of cobwebs and he can't focus on a lot of words. Okay?
You've focused on your h quite a bit and it's time to turn the focus back on to you, your health and well being. I know you want him back and you love him dearly, but your journey is calling you and you need to continue moving forward. You can leave the door ajar and if your h so wishes, he can open it further and step into the room and join you along the way. Give him plenty of space and time and when he comes over, be yourself.
BTW, it's time for a new thread. You are over the 100 posting limit by 16 and your thread may lock soon.
I hope I am not letting you down.
No - you are not letting me down,
I have NO EXPECTATIONS.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that you have
the CONTROL of YOU.
That is not up to him, so guide yourself in the direction
that you want to be.
He is not going to help,
if he does that is a bonus.
Keep moving forward.