I haven't been around for a month, I can't believe how fast time goes by. I figure it's time to check in and update with a new thread. Again, thank you everyone for your support and encouragement through this journey.
It's been a year since bd. My S and I have been back home for almost 3 months now. Since being home, H and I have been forced to face our situation and have been proceeding with 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Overall, I feel settled and more in control of my reactions and level of patience. The best advice I have been given to get through this - let him go.
H still sleeps in spare room
H gives no compliments or affection of any kind
However, there have been changes for the better:
Lots and lots of talking about his work day and job
If I compliment any clothes, he wears them constantly. In fact he had to throw out a pair of shorts that I loved on him, they were just so him. So he went and bought a new pair
He is working on connecting with S
He comes home after work every day
Party nights are way down. The last arrival at 3:30 a.m. After being out with mystery friends Had me waiting up for him. I laid down a boundary that whether he likes it or not, he is married, that this is our home, and if he continues to disrespect me and our home that he should leave. He agreed his behavior has been in appropriate, so we will see how that goes.
H has expressed an interest in seeing our old friends
H asked me out to dinner for my bday and we had a nice time with S
H is suggesting projects in our home including buying furniture
H asked I listen to a song. It was about being lost and finding your way back. H has always been in tune to songs for their meaning
H suggested taking a day off work to spend with S and I while we are on vacation
My changes:
I have fully backed off. "Let the nonsense go" is my mantra. It actually feels good, I have learned how to work on controlling my anxiety from a great book my therapist recommended. I continue therapy, but talk about things less and less with family and friends. It seems to help my anxiety to not talk about things, but I do let people know things are going well.
I have started some gardening projects at home
I am back to enjoying making delicious dinners and nesting in my home, with no resentments
I have no expectations and continue to keep my guard up
I surround myself with good friends who love me
I focus on S and spending quality time with him
I have stopped snooping. However I did put a retainer down on a PI. I have had it set up for a month but have not been able to bring myself to make that call to have him followed. I'm not sure if I ever will. My only reason for the PI was to find out who the mystery friends are, and if an OW is part of it, but with all the positive changes in his behavior, my suspicions are fading. I will let this one play out a little longer for now.
I have fully accepted that I have no control of H or our situation
So overall, I feel good about my changes in myself. I still have work to do but I feel I am on the right path and really getting a hang on this MLC behavior and how to keep harmony in our home.
I think H still has quite a ways to go. I am not sure if he has really looked at himself and the part he has played in this. The reason I say that is because in every R discussion, he reminds me that he feels this way because of so many years of neglect from me. But he doesn't seem to care WHY I felt that way or what brought on my withdrawal. I don't see us being able to move on without BOTH of us realizing our mistakes. I worry that he is sweeping things under the rug and slowly moving forward again, but I really feel he needs to keep working on himself first. I can't believe I am saying that, for a year all I have wanted is our life back. And we seem to be heading that way. But if he doesn't realize and work on his part in this, things will go right back to the way they were. And I already know that life doesn't work for us. Not sure what I can do, if anything, about that
mleigh,
Mlcers tend to think "out loud". Right now, he still thinks the issues were because you neglected him. Listen and validate, but do not argue w/him. This is his perception of how things were. Yes, there may have been times when this may have been true, but he could have voiced his opinion and the both of you could have found a way to work things out, i.e., either by talking, taking time out for each other or going to MC.
During this time, he's going to say a lot of things that either are true or are Memorex. At some point, the fog will gradually begin to lift and his version of what took place may begin to change. Yes, he's got to continue working on himself. He may attempt to sweep things under the carpet, but eventually the broom and dust pan will need to come out and those issues will need to be visited and then discarded. He's not there yet.
He's got a ways to go, so let him be. Continue as you have been. Dig for more patience and live your life to the fullest. Okay?
I'm new to all of this, but it's so nice to hear when someone is having success. I know it seems like it took this long to get here and even longer to where you want to be, but you are doing a fantastic job. Keep going and be strong for you and your S.
Patience. You guys are not kidding when you say this journey will require all the patience you can dig up. H and I continue having some good R talks. They have been talks, not fights, which is a great change for us. But they continue to be H doing the blame game. He continues to blame his feelings on my neglect. I do validate, always, and let him know I am looking at my parts in this and working on making changes in myself to be a better partner. Now, he is acknowledging my changes, but says he doesn't feel they are genuine changes.
I am listening to you Job, I know he is looking at things in his own way. It may be against the DB rules, but I had to remind him to look at his own part in this, and until he does we will not be able to move forward from this.
I continue to dig deep, oh so deep. I worry though, I am running out of fight, running out of motivation. I feel myself starting to feel the way I did when I shut down with him before. I wasn't that far out of my own fog when he shut down, and now I've been thrown a year's worth of battle and fight, when I didn't have much left in me to begin with. I feel a little panicked, that by the time he comes around, I am going to be done. I know that is up to me to figure out, I am reaching out everywhere for that strength.
For the vets on here, do you think my H is at a point where he is starting to test me? He seems to be reaching out a bit, I definitely see signs that he is in this, and he is working on some minor changes to help keep the harmony in our home. But overall, he is the same person he was a year ago, still sitting in limbo land and not willing to look at himself for any changes. Is this part of the journey they go through, to test us to see if our changes are genuine before they work on theirs?
They will test you many times, sometimes in a subtle way. It is to see if: 1) you are still there for them and reacting to whatever they say or do; and 2) to see if your changes are genuine/real/permanent. This will continue for many months until they have completed their journey and have settled into their own skin again. That's why we say repeatedly on here that if you are making changes, make them for you, be happy w/your changes and above all else, make them a permanent part of your new life. You do not need to reassure him that the changes you've made are real/permanent...actions speak louder than words.
He is working on himself within. You can't see the work being done because there are not cuts or bruises on the outside, but the work is being done internally. I'm sure you are anxious for his crisis to be over and done with, but you have quite a ways to go yet. Patience! Dig very deep for patience because this is the hardest part of the journey for you. You are watching his every move, analyzing those movements and yes his words as well. Step back, give him as much space and time as you can. As long as you can listen, validate and be a friend to him at this time, he will continue to communicate w/you.
Turn the focus off your h and back on to you and your family. The healing process is taking place internally and until he's ready to move forward a bit more, you will not see a lot of change. It takes a lot of time for him to back up. Remember the old saying? "A watched pot never boils." This is very true w/the MLCer as well.
Step back, live your life to the fullest and allow him to come to you when he's ready to talk some more.
You are doing great! Stay positive!
Sounds like things are a lil better. I understand your feelings that your H is trying to come back but your worried he is not working on changes he needs to make.
It's important for the LBS to know what they need and want when/if they decide to continue in a R or M with the MLC.
This is something Im struggling with, but until my H actually brings up our M for some type of discussion or tell me he is working on himself and wanting to make our M better,,,I figure there is really no need for me to focus on the "what if" as it relates to H trying to come back...
Thank you for your responses, it always helps. I forget there is a lot going on in that mind of his. For years I didn't know how hurt he was feeling, so why would I know now? In reading Raine's post, she brought up several times that reconciliation was happening with no talk of it, just actions. My H is showing many positive actions, yet I get antsy and want to push him forward already and get on with this! But I need to find a way to stop myself, when I get that urge and burst of impatience. It actually annoys myself after the fact, I can only imagine how it makes him feel. He even told me last night, "I'm trying!" Ugh, I can be such a pain sometimes...... But learning from it.
Thank you again for the reminders!!
mleigh- just reading up on your posts and I find myself similar to you in many ways so thank you for posting your journey. I too got the "I just feel empty" speech which only came after I confronted him about why he was acting so distant to me -I don't know if he would have ever brought it up - I am sure it would have come out somehow but I just wonder. I also had emotionally shut down over the past years with the kids and I doubted my marriage enough that i started looking at ways to improve it - bought books, tried to talk to him but only got shut out - I knew our marriage was not in a good place but NEVER expected this. Our only communication is about the kids and mostly text messages - i waffle with just wanting it over with to being in it for the long haul but you have provided some encouragement for me. He still tries to "be nice" and do things like mow the yard - he offered to put tires on my car - I said no - just angry at the time and wanted to prove that I could manage without him. There have been several of those opportunities - perhaps I should start being nicer now that the anger is subsiding somewhat and allow him to do those things and try to show appreciation (it's just so hard). Thanks for posting your list of changes - I feel like I am so far deep into the madness I can't even think of the simple things to step back and evaluate my own progress - does that make sense? It's easier to see from someone else who has lived it and is going through it - I would be lost without this forum - convinced I was totally insane. Keep up the patience - it sounds like you are making some progress.
MLeigh you too give me hope. I'm only 4 months into this but am already doubting that my H will ever turn the corner. I know my H is having an A and that part stings the most. That's what always throws me off course and gets me to doubt that I'll ever make it through. He says he just needs to go out with his "friends" and that he can't stay home but I know where he is and who he's with and that's what I focus on. If you want my opinion (okay I'll give it to you anyway ;-)) don't go through with the PI unless you absolutely feel you have to. Looking back, the less I would know the better. The easier this would all be on me and the stronger I'd be. With everything new thing I find out, I get knocked down and depleted. And really, those things happened and I can't change them so if I plan on standing I will have to look the other way regardless so why know. If you decide your heart isn't in it anymore then all those secrets help you rationalize why you didn't give it a chance, otherwise they serve no purpose. I guess that's why everyone tells you not to snoop and only focus on you and the kids. That's the only way you can get through this in the long run. Now if only I could take my own advice :-)
Tuff and Ssarah - thank you for the encouragement and advise. It helps so much when we get this
A mental note to myself. I feel like a year through the journey, the dust is starting to settle. I envision this tornado like spinning on BD that lasted a few months for me. Then I moved out, moved back in, have had some unsuccessful R talks.... But when I stop the talks, step back and let life happen, it literaly feels like the world slows down and the dust settles. If I blow up, nitpick or try to talk, it's like kicking the dust back up. Things are beginning to look a little clearer for me. To be continued......
H has been doing a lot of shopping lately, but it's all home shopping for home improvement projects. He also has thrown in presents for me, S and the dog! Looks like he plans on sticking around?
I have noticed in the past week that H gets real close to me while in the kitchen, sitting, walking past. No physical affection or anything, just a closeness. So I decided to test the waters last night. While walking past him, he was leaned over, so I casually touched his back while I walked past. We were talking at the time and he kept right on talking, but didn't seem bothered by it.
mleigh -thanks for the continued story. It is always good to see people working on making something better from all the initial destruction. I can't even imagine how difficult it is. Just reading your posts helped me last night when my H dropped the kids off-I was abnormally calm and even nice-which I haven't been for a while-it just seemed so comfortable just having him around -if only for a few minutes. I won't cont my story on your thread but wanted you to know I admire you for sticking it out and still moving forward. Looking forward to your future.
Well, I fell off the DB wagon. I am really beating myself up as things have been going so well, but I see the problem here. Me and alcohol. I went for what was to be an innocent visit with a girlfriend while H was out with a friend and S was at a playdate. I reached out to H while he was out so we could coordinate who would be home to pick up S, but he never responded to my text. In the meantime, I got word that playdate was now sleepover. As the time went by with no word from H, I got angrier and angrier, the mind started racing and 1 drink became about 4. After 2 1/2 hours, H finally responded saying he was playing pool and didn't realized I had texted. I called him and just went off. Why am I always responsible for S? What is he doing and who is he with? Why didn't he respond to my text? He yelled that I am drunk and hung up on me. In the meantime, S wanted to come home afterall. There was no way I could drive, so H went and picked him up. When I finally got home about 1 am, I stormed into H's room and demanded more answers. I told him he is not worth all of this and that he will be served this week. Oh boy. I woke up Sunday just feeling like a real loser. I wasn't there for my S when I should have been. I wreaked havoc on our R, which has been heading in the right direction. Yes, H should have been more responsive to my text when it comes to our S, but he assumed we were just at home like he left us. He didn't know about the playdate or me going out, it was last minute plans after H had left. I feel like he is telling the truth and wasn't up to anything inappropriate. I told him I will not be going out drinking anymore, putting myself in situations where I can drink too much. I didn't tell him this, but between us, I used to know when to stop. Since this chaos in my life, I keep going to numb myself. Not good! H didn't say anything about the things I said. He just explained that he really didn't see my text until he looked at his phone to check the time because he didn't want to get home too late like in the past.
So - I got my wake up call about drinking and will avoid these situations. But obviously I have some real anger in me. Not just for the past year, but for the last several years of issues with him. I accept that he is limited on what he can give emotionally and physically. It's just the way he is, always has been. My H is quiet, private, withdrawn at times - it's hard to feel loved or special with someone like this. Can I live with this? Can I work on myself to look for other ways he shows love, then the ways I hope for? I need to figure this out.
In the meantime, does anyone have any advise on working on anger and forgiveness?
mleigh - don't be so hard on yourself - those feelings are natural but at least you have the intelligence to look for ways to helping yourself. I think this is something we all struggle with - we mostly hope for a R but how does one move past the stuff we have endured? This is a site on forgiveness that offers a 30 day challenge:
http://forgivenesschallenge.com/ I just signed up so I can't speak to it really. Maybe look for an outlet for your anger - some physical class (I want to do boxing :)) or yoga seems to help me. I also look to my bible daily for inspiration. My H is similar to yours in the quiet type - I have said in the past I wasn't sure if he knew how to show emotion/love - looking back I just see we do that differently. Maybe finding out his love language can better help you understand how he demonstrates it and how you want it?
Thank you Tuff. I will look into the forgiveness challenge. I have so much anger in me that I can normally keep under control, but I don't see moving forward if I can't let some things go. I am getting back into yoga, that helped me alot while we were separated. I don't have any religous outlets, but I had started looking into budhism. I like the idea of looking into yourself for peace, something I can control! Otherwise, I am staying away from alcohol. This weekend was a big wake up call for me and I can't shake the bad feelings. I am really disappointed in myself for the way I acted.
Hi mleigh,
Don't beat yourself up. You have been put through a lot all because of your H and what he has said and done. It is only natural to be angry. It would be weird if you weren't at least somewhat. It's hard to keep up all the DBing and knowing you have worked so hard and there is your H who really needs to be the one who does the work in all honesty. It can really get a person angry, the unfairness of it all.
It's one of the reasons that, in order for any of this to work for us or our M, you have to drop any and all expectations. You "expected" your H to respond to your text and when he didn't it got to you. Yes, he should have and he was wrong not to but at the same time he isn't capable of doing much of anything that isn't all about him. It's so hard to do 100% of the time. I still have a hard time when it comes to things that are about our D14. Just yesterday my D was supposed to stay with her mom starting yesterday until Sunday. Out of the blue my MIL pulls up and drops off my D14 saying that my W said that she decided that D would just stay with me for another week and then with her for the next 2 weeks since school is starting next week and my W lives closer to the school and it makes sense for her to stay there for the first week. OK, but why didn't she contact me about it. Make sure that it was what I felt as well and I was OK with it. Even at least to let me know my D was on her way back to my place at the very least! I am still upset about this but I also realize it's because, at least when it comes to something as important as our D, I "expect" her to act like an adult, to at least make sure what SHE wants is also what I want or am at least willing to go along with! That I hadn't made plans or was unable to have her for another week.
I don't think you did any real damage mleigh. Just learn how to do it differently next time. You are fine!
Thanks Matt,
You are right. I had expectations when it came to our S, but I guess I should know better. Also, since we had been getting along so well. I have high expectations on a normal basis anyway so this is tough for me! Things had gotten awkward between us after the blowup, but I have been making an effort to ease the tension and it's getting better. Both of our walls are way back up again! But I know now what I can do to make things more comfortable at home and am back to it.
Why is it that some days I feel so positive about things? I really feel that I am doing the right thing by standing for my marriage and working on being patient. It all seems so clear and so right!
Then some days I feel so hopeless, that this is unacceptable that H is putting me and my S through this limbo for over a year and treating our marriage like a disease. It all seems so clear that I need to end this misery for us all, so we can move on.
Does anyone else go through these roller coaster of feelings, or am I just as messed up as my H?
^^^^^^^ YES THANK YOU FOR THAT ^^^^^^^^
I'm so glad to know it's not just me, either.
I do feel like I'm bipolar or losing my sanity with the ups and downs..
You are on the rollercoaster of emotions. One question...are your highs and lows based on how your h is acting on any given day? If so, then you need to step back a bit more and apply more detachment. However, if you can continue to detach, in time, they will become less and less for you. We all have been on that coaster and until you decide to get off of it, you'll have those ups and downs.
It's very, very normal. Don't beat yourself up over it. You'll get to the other side when the time is right.
For me, it's a mixture of how he is acting on any certain day and feeling impatient. His emotions also seem to go up and down, which I know is normal for what he is going through. 2 steps forward, 1 step back!
I need to: LET GO, STEP BACK, BE PATIENT, NO EXPECTATIONS
I need a mental vacation from all of this, just a break! Trying real hard to turn it off in my brain.
Thanks guys, I feel better
Agree with the rollercoaster analogy. I share your feelings - only mine still cycle within any given day or hour. Ugh - it seems like it is the worst during the day when my mind can wander and i am convinced it is a hopeless cause-then I see him and am determined to stand and DB for however long it takes - sometimes.Tonight it even changed within 1 hour of seeing him - he picked 1 kid up at the house (standing) then i saw him walking at the park and decided that I don't know why I am wasting my time on him - I never really liked him anyway - wow - that was a shocker to me - I thought to myself - now I am re-writing history similar to what they do. And finally at this time of night I am neutral either way. crazy!!!!!!!!!!!
It's been awhile since I have been around. I decided to take a break from my marriage problems and just live and let life happen. It actually went well for a while. I was much more relaxed and happy. Felt a weight lifted. I actually got to a point where I decided that I had said all I could say and done all I can do. There was nothing more for me to do but step back and see where life took us. Things have been ok. I was still seeing some progress in H. We have been getting along great and life has been smooth at home. I still see odd and withdrawn behavior in H, but my biggest struggle remains to be H sleeping in spare room. It wears on me more than I can say. Who am I to talk? For years I put H through the same thing, in different ways. So I try so hard to ignore it and not dwell on it, but I can't. I have reached out to H with a hug, got an ok response. I have been upbeat, given him his space, left him alone. All the things I am supposed to do. And yes, I see it helps and see H opening up and removing bricks from that wall.
I guess we all have that moment, that boundary, where you reach the point of total detachment and letting go. I thought it was a couple of weeks ago when we had an argument about him ignoring a text about picking up his S while he was out. It was alcohol infused and I regret my blow up, but I did reach a point where I knew I had to let go of him. I apologized and we got past that.
Fast forward to this weekend. He decided to do a marathon day out. Left at 7 am and came home at 3:30 am the next morning. Said he was with his mystery friends but vague as usual. I actually believe him, told him it's great he had a good time, but to please just let me know when he will be out so long so I don't worry. I also feel, no matter what he is going through, it is disrespectful to his family and home. So I left him alone, went back to my room and just started bawling. The pain, loneliness and reality of my life just hit me. Like a ton of bricks. I went back to his room, tapped on the door to ask if I could just lie with him a moment. As I walked in, I can see a light under his covers, his phone. He scurried to hide it. I asked him, are you on your phone? He said no. So I asked if I could lay down for a moment and he sighed, just completely annoyed. So I asked again about the phone and he admitted it. I asked if he was talking to someone and he said no. Then it struck me, porn. So I asked and he told me to get out. Said he was just looking at stuff. So, I was completely rejected, once again find him doing things behind my back, and I just hit a point where I am so done. I just can't live my life with someone I can't trust, who obviously doesn't love me or want me. I feel like he has been making things nice at home just for the convenience.
I have reached my point and let go. After a day of crying, I let him know he has made it clear how he feels about me. I told him I have nothing left in me. If we can get through the holidays for our S, at the beginning of the year we can move forward on things, that looks to be what he wants and I won't hold him back. I just got a blank "ok".
I hurt for him. I know he is lost. I feel like I am letting him down. But I have to take care of myself. I want my S to experience a healthy relationship, not a loveless one. I need to be happy. It's been so so long. Between my own crisis and now his, we are looking at a good 4 years. I am drained and exhausted. I really feel I have done all I can do. I promised myself that I would give this through the end of the year and will do so. Who knows, miracles happen. But I feel so numb and empty, I don't know if I even want him anymore. He is not the man I fell for. Not even close.
I'm very sorry that things aren't working out for your family. You have been more than willing to work on things and yes, living w/a mlcer can be very trying and frustrating. You've told him how you feel, now live your life to the fullest and let the chips fall where they may. You've got several months to get things in order before you make your final decision about your marriage. Use the time wisely and get your ducks in a row.
Whatever you decide to do, we are here for you.
You sound like you have the same "guilt" I have, I know there was a couple of years I was the WAS, and then it seemed when I woke up and realize I wanted this man this M, then BAM He hit me with BD.
I forgave myself, and you will need to also if you have not. It sounds like you have a plan in place, try to sit still in your feelings and thoughts.
Believe me I know its hard!
Your feelings are back and forth on if you want your M or not, like mine. Until we are 100% sure we are done we must be careful.
Well things continue to progress worse here. I continue to let go. I found some great info and quotes on the web that I find truly helpful. Letting go is not easy, it really takes a mindset and a change in perception. So I have been feeling better. But call me crazy or is H acting out stronger than ever. My phone seems to be being checked. He has gone back to his ways of staying out late, coming home late from work, even missed S back to school night. Of course none of this is his fault, always the blameless victim. But I remain cool and calm and it seems to be driving him crazy.
This last weekend, he stormed in my room out of the blue and accused me of putting gps on his trucks. He spent an hour checking his truck, throwing things around in the garage. Very out of character for him. Then he proceeded to leave and didn't come home all night. Another first. What pissed me off was our S getting worried because the light we left on for daddy was still on this morning when we got up. Jerk. So when H got home I let him know that I feel his behavior is creating an unhealthy environment for our S and he should either shape up or get out. After some conversation H told me he thinks we should get a D. So there it is, he finally spit out a thought. Later in the day he was leaving to take S to mini golf, and he stuck a piece of paper in his bedroom door to see if I go in there or not. I asked him what is going on. He now accused me of letting strangers in the room to go through his stuff. Major paranoia going on. The only thing I can think of is that he is snooping through my credit card or phone records and maybe found out I put a retainer down for a PI?? The sad part is I have not used it.
So now H has become the snooper. Has anyone seen this turn before? Is this now his reaction to my detachment? Even though I have very much been against D, I have come to face the reality of a year of extreme unhappiness and a fear for what my S is watching go on with his dad. Now that the D word is out there, I am going to do a consultation with an attorney. It's time to protect myself.
Yes, they can become very paranoid and projection takes on a new level called "high". He may have looked at the credit card statement and saw the retainer charge and put two and two together, even though you've not used it.
Because you are pulling back and away from him, he's scared in his own way. So, what does he do? Starts acting out, etc. He wants to know what you are doing and w/whom. It doesn't matter that you aren't doing anything wrong, but to him, something is going on that isn't right w/you, so the snooping begins as well as accusations.
I'm very sorry that he's turned into Mr. Nasty, but he feels cornered/trapped and the guilt paranoia are feeding his internal fire right now. If he wasn't guilty about something, his reaction wouldn't be the way it is.
I know it's difficult living w/him but try to let some of this stuff roll off your back. Since he's brought up the divorce word, I would seek a consultation and protect yourself and your assets as much as possible.
Continue as you have been and let him put all of the papers in the doors that he wants. You can't convince him otherwise that no one is going in his little man cave.
Hang in there!
Just to add to what job said...my W did much of the same. She was convinced that I was checking her e-mail, following her gps on her phone, etc. Why? I really don't know. Why she even would have cared I don't understand either. She was living at home still then but had made it clear she wanted to go. She was doing whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted so what difference would any of that make?
Job is also right that, to this day (this was months ago), I wonder what exactly she was hiding. I'm sure she was hiding something I just don't know what or why.
I will tell you this...I wish I had done things differently now that she has left. I wish I had gone to a lawyer and at least talked long before I did. I ended up having to scramble to get my own lawyer AFTER she filed (and after she had told me she wasn't going to a lawyer, wasn't going to file, would use a mediator if it got to that, etc.). My W swore that she wasn't going to do so many things that she ended up doing. If I were you I'd start putting some money aside as well. My W left me with a negative account balance when she left with zero thought as to how I was going to live. As much as you hope and pray. As hard as you have tried to do the right things, use the DB method, odds are that things won't get better before your H leaves. I didn't do so many things I wish now I had because I HOPED that my M could be saved. Don't not do things to protect yourself because of that same hope.
Thanks for your advise. So I have an appt for a consultation with a lawyer this we'dnesday. So what do I say?? I don't want a divorce but tell me the process? Or do I go in there to explain the situation and ask what can I do to protect myself? In California, you can go through mediation to set up the separation agreement and then can file for D once done. Do I initiate the mediation so he can see exactly what the D would look like on paper before we take that step?? I just sit here wondering, if H wants the divorce, why isn't he doing the work? And why am I?
I am not a religious person, but last night I hit a real low spot. I was feeling totally overwhelmed with sadness, anger and fear over this weekend. All of a sudden I felt this wave of warmth go through me, like my thoughts got washed out, and all that was in my head were the big white words LET GO. It was really strange, I was left feeling like I shouldn't worry, that everything will be ok. So I am handing it over to a higher power and asking for help to cope. Not easy for me to do!
Last question for those that live with their MLC'ers. How do you ignore the craziness? The late nights out, the all nighters, the hiding in the other room with the phone, the lies. How do you not let it get to you? I know detaching and letting go. I am doing well but still working on it. But does anyone have a perspective I can use to get me through those tough moments of weakness and the urge to react?
Hi mleigh,
I just got your message on my thread (I was watching my Eagles beat my FIL's favorite team the Colts! Ha-Ha!!)
First to what to talk to the lawyer about...I would tell him that your H has been saying he wants out of the M. You don't want that, think that you would like to try and work things out but that you want to know what you should do to protect yourself. Make sure to tell him about how he has been acting, what kind of crazy things he's been doing, late nights out where you don't know where or with whom, etc. He will be able to tell you what your best course of action is and help you to be ready if H decides to file.
As for how I was able to get through the late nights out, not showing up, hiding what she was doing on her phone etc....It wasn't easy at first. To this day I really don't think my W had an OP or even if she does now. I knew it was more about her wanting to "find" herself, her "joy" and I don't think she was the cheating type. When it would happen, I would allow myself to get angry while she wasn't around but as soon as she was, I just ignored it. Didn't ask about it. When it first started I asked and I was so hurt to hear her talk about things like all the fun she was having dancing at her co. X-mass party with other men, I decided it was easier just not to ask. Our imaginations can always come up with worse things than the truth and I also wanted so badly to save my M for my kids sake I just told myself it wasn't as bad as I thought.
It's not easy. It took me a few months before I stopped confronting her or asking where she had been or who was there. But once I decided that no matter what was happening, I would eventually find out and it wouldn't really change what I wanted...my M to be "saved", I was able to just not want to know!
Know that they expect us to care. They want to make us worry. They also want us to get angry so they can say to themselves that were the "cause" of their pain. We don't trust them. We are making up that they are doing things they're not, etc. I didn't want to give her more fuel for that fire and that also helped. I felt that I disappointed the nasty child in her who WANTED me to react, so I "won". That helped me a lot!
Hi again!
I just wanted to say another thing after seeing an earlier post of yours on another thread....Be VERY careful about doing things hoping for a certain reaction from your H! I say this from real life experience. You had posted something about maybe you should start the process of mediation because your H keeps saying that he wants to "end this M" but he hasn't done anything yet. I think what you said was "...maybe seeing the stark reality of what D means on paper will wake him up to what that really means..". You can't expect a person in MLC to have any thing close to what you think is a NORMAL reaction to anything! I learned this the hard way.
Yes, a normal thinking person might see that piece of paper that represents the end of a life, the destruction of a family for what it represents. Any person in their right mind, seeing something like that would at the very least hesitate and really think about what that means, right? What you must remember is this, right now your H ISN'T in his right mind. He is as far from "normal" as he can get. It has been my experience that every time I did something like that hoping to get the "normal" reaction from my W, I got just the opposite! Where I expected her to at least slow down, to maybe think about what she was doing, all I got was her speeding the process up! Your H may just see that piece of paper and think "Oh, thank God she started the process" because he couldn't figure out how to do it himself. Or even "Well, she must want this as much as I do if she was willing to do it. I'm off the hook and can say I wasn't the one who went to the lawyer..".
mleigh, it took me way too long to understand just how "crazy" my W's thought processes were. Just how far from the way she used to think, from the way anyone in their right mind would react she had become. Don't do something you don't want to do hoping that it might "wake" him up. Unless you are at the point that YOU are ready to start the process for YOU, don't do it. Now, if you are truly at the point where you can no longer take the status quo, where you are ready for him to either change or end the M, then by all means that is something you should do. But, if you are only doing it to get a certain reaction from him, I would think twice.
Like I said, it has been my experience that my W had the exact opposite reaction that I had hoped for every time I did something like that. Your H may be different but be very careful about that kind of thing. I know how you feel, mleigh (Oh, so very well!). It's so hard being in limbo, waiting for that shoe to drop, knowing your life as you know it is at the mercy of a person that you have (and still) love. You think that somewhere in there the person you knew and loved must still be there and if you could only get him to really see just what he is doing, just how much damage and pain he is causing, he will wake up. I'm sorry to say that that most likely will not happen any time soon and you just can't count on him to see any of that. It s@cks and it isn't fair, I know but it is reality at this time.
Hang in there mleigh. Only you know when you can no longer take the uncertainty and pain.
Matt - thank you so much for your response and time. Every week I pump myself up to get ready for a horrible weekend of worrying and I promise myself I will not react and then I do. I will really try your technique and way of thinking this weekend. But at what point are we standing for our marriage vs being a total doormat? How can I respect myself when I allow myself and S to be treated with such disrespect?
In response to whether or not to start mediation, I am so confused on what to do. Things will go well at home, I start believing there is hope, then I get slammed in the stomach with reality and it just hits me all over again. I think honestly I can say that I would be ok with H out of my life. This last year has made me look at him so differently and has brought to my attention all the issues he has that I had no idea I was getting involved with. I really am not sure that with all the damage I can ever really love and trust this man again. My biggest fear in getting a divorce? Is having to share custody with my son. Having to deal with not having him every morning and every night. Making him leave me to spend time with his dad when he doesn't want to. The man can't form a connection with anyone, not even his own son. So that is the struggle I face. Between my therapist and attorney I hope to get some clarity on that.
Back to my H. His father approached me last week about my H growing up in a passive agressive home and to look up information on that. Boy does it explain a lot! The lack of empathy, the inability to emotionally connect, the not being able to make decisions, procrastination, keeping feelings in, emotional abuse... So much fits. So now I wonder, is this MLC or is my H a passive agressive man?
mleigh,
That was also my biggest fear, sharing custody with a woman who hasn't acted like a wife or mother for a long time. If her patterns remain the same as the last few YEARS she will (and is!) be leaving my D14 alone after school so she can "work late' almost every night. I know from experience that the time from after school to a parent gets home is the WORST time at my D's age. That is when there is trouble! It is when they have "friends" over at their place because mom won't be home. Kids at that age are so full of "peer pressure" and with my D going from private school all her life (102 kids in K-8, she had the same 8 kids in her class from K! They were like brothers and sisters) to a school where just the Sr class has more than 400 AND my D knows NO ONE, is scary to me!
For now my D14 spends 7 days with her mom and next 7 with me. She never really gets to unpack and has little stability. Because of my W's "need" to "be on her own" my D14 has lost her sister (D19) because she refuses to live with her mom and I can't afford to get her a car (her mom can but won't), lost every friend she ever had because her mom moved 30 miles away, is in a school that is scary to her and she hates, has lost the only home she has ever known for 1/2 the time and has had to watch her own mother act like a child. But my W insists that not only won't any of this hurt our D14 but that because my W will be "happy" at last because she is getting away from her husband of 21 years who she admits was a great husband and father, that she will be a "better mother" and that will make up for all the bad! Crazy yes, but there is NOTHING I can do to stop her and I need to direct my attention to doing everything I can to give my d14 all the things her mother won't.
I know it's scary. I know you want to protect your kids from the crazy MLC spouse but in reality, in today's society, there is NOTHING you can do to stop a S who wants out of a M. They don't need a reason any more, even if you don't want the D, all they have to do is tell the court they want out of the M and it's granted. I never thought I would need to even think about D. I had no idea that it was so easy for just one person to end a M but it is what it is.
Depending on their age, most states take which parent the child wants to live with into consideration (after a certain age in my state it's 12). That may help if you know your child will say you. (my D refuses to say she wants to live with me because she doesn't want to hurt her mom and I understand that!).
In the 8 days that my D14 has been at her mom's while in school, I have had to pick her up to take her so she wouldn't have to walk 25 min.'s because her mom has decided that being at work a 1/2 hour earlier is more important than what is best for her D14 5 times. I have picked her up after school several times in very hot or bad weather so she didn't have to walk 25 min home with a full book bag! I do this for my D14, not for her mother. Yes, it hurts knowing my d will have problems that I won't be there to help her with. Know she is safe, being taken care of but the reality is I can still do much so she knows I'm there for her. I may not be there physically but if she needs me she KNOWS I will be there ASAP. She knows this because I am now and always will be.
In the end there is a point where you have to decide that your S will be OK even if he must spend part of his time with your H. That just being there in the same home isn't the only way to help him. That while you would rather he be with you 24/7 at some point you may not have a choice in the matter anyway. What is best for him...seeing his mother in so much pain, being a "doormat" (your word), teaching him that is how men treat their wives or is it better to show him you are strong enough to stand on your own two feet? That the way your H is treating his mother is WRONG, causes pain to the person his father is supposed to love and care for. Who he SWORE he would stay with through "better or worse"?
Only you can decide when things are so bad that it's worse for your son to see the way your H is treating you and the M or if staying is still best. It's not an easy call. It s@cks to have to make it but again, it isn't your choice or fault. Your H is the one who for whatever reason has put you in this position, remember that. It's up to you to decide when and if the choice to end the M is better or worse for everyone involved, including you! Even then, at some point you may not have the choice if your H decides to end things himself.
A lot to think about mleigh. Good luck!
Whew - ok. You made some very good points Matt and yes I have a lot to think about. My goal is to raise a respectful loving young man, and the example he is seeing from his father is anything but that. Oh don't get me wrong, H always has a smile on his face and is always pleasant..... while he is doing inappropriate things. Typical passive agressive behavior. My son and I have had some good talks about dad's behavior, he is very bright for a 7 year old. So, do I want my S to grow up thinking this is ok? No, absolutely not.
Thank you Matt. You've given me some good food for thought.
mleigh4 - Although I don't live with H, our timetables are close, and my H, too, has been 'threatening' to 'end the marriage' since last summer. I have been tempted, too, to start the process myself, when I get tired of the uncertainty. For quite a while, I was afraid he would get it started, but then after he threatened to do it so many times - and then didn't - I stopped worrying about it. I just try to go on about my day as 'normal' (haha - what is THAT?). I can't let him ruin every day for me. I know I'll be ok no matter what, so it's not so scary anymore. Actually, it's getting downright annoying! And what you said about seeing him in a different light? Ditto. Yes, lots to think about...hang in there...
There is no doubt my H will do nothing to get this started. His words were "I think we should divorce and I'm not leaving until I know my financial situation". I've been hearing this for a year. Like all of us, we either learn to cope and live with the madness or take the outcome into our own hands. So basically in his mind, he wants a divorce but in the meantime he will live at home, give me and S attention according to his schedule, and go out and do as he pleases.
My consultation with an attorney is coming up in an hour. I am looking forward to it.
Good Luck, mleigh! Which ever way things go, you will get through this!
I hope things went well w/the meeting w/your lawyer. As for your h, if he doesn't know now what his financial situation is, he never will. He's had a year to figure it out. What a putz!
I can do this. I am not going to let H have any power over my weekend. He is out night golfing tonight. I actually believe him, could he even make this stuff up? Golf balls that light up when you hit them. Actually sounds fun! S and I finished building his Lego castle. I love building Legos! We ate a killer dinner, BBQ hamburgers I grilled up. Now just sipping on a nice cold glass of wine and watching tv. A nice Saturday without H around again. He even baited me into a fight which I did not react to. S and I ran out to do errands while he left to have lunch with his mom, which I am dying to know how that went! Anyway I guess H came back while we were out and was not happy we were not home. Texted me "nice to know where you are". I just laughed out loud! Welcome to my world! But I did great, no reaction. And I expect him home either late or not home at all. I got this, will not react and will just ignore it thanks to your tips.
I can do this. All new for me. I have let go, and am lleaving it in someone else's hands.
Having a bad day. When will I learn not to talk with my mother about my marriage? She does not understand why I don't file for divorce when I continue to be so unhappy. She gets so frustrated and spurts out at me that H doesn't love me, that he obviously does not want to be married to me, that his actions speak clearly, why can't I see it? She gets so angry at me when I insist that I will not be the one to file.
I know people on the outside don't understand the world of confusion and mixed signals we live in. It's just so hard to never express my pains, especially to my mom.
Anyone else have this problem?
H and I had a little R talk last night which of course did not go well. H still "leaning towards D but not sure it's right thing to do".
I am starting to believe I am a glutton for punishment. My mom has always been verbally abusive and I seem to egg it on with H by asking questions that I know will have painful answers. Is there a name for this and does anyone have any suggested reading? I just can't seem to lay things to rest, I always stir it up which results in my own pain.
We try to encourage posters to select a close friend to talk to about the situation. Parents, family, co-workers and general friends don't understand what is happening and they want to see you happy and not hang around in limbo.
We all have had this problem during the journey. The best thing to do is not to share too much of what is going on w/those who haven't walked a mile in your shoes. It's best to come here and vent, share, laugh, etc. or to your IC or MC. It saves you the frustration, aggravation and hurt of trying to defend your position. You have the power to shut the conversations down w/people either by saying I don't wish to discuss the matter at this time or change the subject.
As for discussions w/your h about the situation, please stop it. The more you talk to him about the relationship, the more likely he will finally push for the divorce. Leave him alone, avoid relationship talks, unless, of course, you want a divorce.
You need to detach a bit more and keep the focus on yourself and your family.
Job - that is my problem. I am finding it hard to be in the grey area of detachment and standing. I can either be nice, get along well, be the happy little wife that provides a comfortable home or I can detach and let go, which is actually easy for me to do, but I have to cut them off completely and shut them out. (Which I have had to do with other relationships in the past) I am having a hard time finding that middle ground where I can be both detached but available. How do I do that with no expectations or hopes? I am finding it impossible. So many people on here seem to have this down, but I struggle so much it is overwhelming. I'm not sure if I can do this.
Even though this has been going on for a year, I am at the 4 month mark of living back at home with my MLC'r. Is this something that has taken others time to adjust to? Please anyone out there, any tips will help me. Some different perspective I can wrap my brain around would be very helpful. I am feeling at this point like this may be hopeless for me.
Mleigh, I think if you keep the focus on you, you'll get so involved in developing your own life that you will too busy to dwell on what he's doing/not doing. And you just might start enjoying yourself - without him. 'Let go of what was and take hold of what is'. This is our new reality and we have to keep trying to make the best of it. You can do it. I thought I couldn't, but I am doing it. If I can, you can too!😊
Your situation isn't hopeless. Detach, let go and live your life for you and your child. BTW, no one has said that you have to be the happy little wife 24/7. You are entitled to have down days too.
It takes some a long time to get to the point of letting go and not worrying about what the mlcer is doing. Living w/one is difficult because they are there most of the time and acting out.
Try to look at him as a roommate and nothing more. He's just someone who graces your presence periodically and then disappears. Stay busy doing things that you enjoy or want to learn. I'm sure you and your son can come up w/some fun things to do when you have the time.
You may want to read the threads of reachingHigher and Raine. They both had to learn to let go and learn to live their lives even after their spouses were back under the same roof. It's hard, I kid you not, but you can do this.
Just be yourself and accept him for who he is today. Don't try to look to far into the future because things can change quickly. Take it one day at a time, one hour at a time.
So, what's on your agenda for today?
Thanks guys. Today it's work. I have my yoga tonight but need to find a sitter as H made last minute plans to a concert. I like your ideas. I will continue to work on this. Thank you.
My H is at home, never left. Very hard to be his roommate, be nice with no expectations back, to be in love, but not see any love coming back.
My H works 2nd shift so that makes it a lil easier for me, we only have his day off (after I get home from work) or a couple hours on the weekends before H goes into work. I know this makes it ALOT easier for me, we don't have many hours home together and hardly none alone without our son there.
When we are home together for a period of time I try to stay very distant, stay busy in the house and or find a reason to leave the house when I feel like I might explode.
All that to say, try to stay busy physically or mentally when home together. Make plans with your friends and have your H watch your son.
I listen to music or read books or take walks if H is home and I feel like I need to do something.
Try different things to figure out what will work best for you.
When I feel the love about to pour out (LMAO) I will stop and think about all the drama and that usually helps to get me back centered.
Thanks 2bhappy, I will try your suggestions too. I have set up my own living room in another room, my little escape where I watch tv and read. That helps me.
The hard part for me is that I can't depend on H to help with S. I try to plan things with friends, but H usually beats me to the punch. On weeknights, he isn't very helpful with homework, bath, bedtime, it's all on me. So, I pretty much feel like a single mom right now. But I do my best to find my me time.
The reality of our world right now is hard to accept sometimes. H won concert tickets from a radio station yesterday for a concert tonight. Of course, I'm not invited. Why in the world would he take his wife?? Sigh. And of course I wonder, is he really taking that guy from work? But I chug on, put it out of my mind, it's in someone else's hands right now. If there is anything different for me to know, it will come out. I also hope he isn't able to make up these crazy stories to me and my son's face, but I guess he would be the one to live with that, right?
Thanks again for your ideas to survive each day. I'll take any advise!
To add to my above post. Don't worry - I do know and understand that I should have no expectations. H is not in a "normal" state of mind right now, I am getting that loud and clear. I have to keep reminding myself of that, to stop expecting "normal"!
H texted he is heading to concert which is a good 1 1/2 from our home. Says coworker he is going with lives near concert so he may just sleep at his place to save an hour of sleep but will be home in morning before S and I leave. Ok I know it's mean that I say my H is not the brightest light bulb in the pack but how is he saving an hour if he has to leave super early to be home in time for work?? It's either driving it tonight or in the morning!! Lol. I think of one of my favorite shows "Everybody loves Raymond" when the wife says "idiot". I say that to myself all the time!!
But I am good. I just replied "have fun!" I swear in all honesty, home with him gone these days is much calmer and happier for me, so I am fully enjoying the time with S. I am starting to realize that and looking at it as time for peace and quiet!
Also realizing that my fear and anger about wondering if he is even telling the truth. I am realizing it doesn't come from jealousy. He is no prize these days, I had the best part of him years ago and mostly have that in my S. But I feel my feelings come from just the disappointment of possibly being lied to. I hate liars. But it's a new perspective for me. Overall I don't think my H is the cheating type, but he also isn't my H anymore.
Boy this week has taken alot out of me, not sure why, just really been a struggle for me. Venting here helps and time to journal:
Things to be proud of myself for and happy about:
1. My and my S's health is good
2. Me and S do alot of laughing together
3. I signed up for weekly yoga again. It helps so much!
4. I have been making an effort to having something planned every weekend in October
5. When H is out and about, I am switching the focus from where/what/who he is doing and focusing on how much I enjoy the peace and quiet at home!
6. I no longer have a hard time eating, my appetite has been good, even when H is out and about
7. I also notice when H is out and about, I used to have a hard time staying focused, but am able to actually enjoy myself
8. I still have a hard time getting a good night sleep, but I am getting better at talking myself down. The yoga helps in creating a "calm mind"
9. Learning to talk less with people about sitch as they don't understand and it only makes me feel worse and sets me off track
10.Taking breaks from reading self help books and enjoying good old fashioned romance novels. Helps me to forget for a little bit!
11. Enjoying being in my home with all of us intact. Me, H, S, dog and hamster too!
12. Very much looking forward to the next few months with fall and the holidays being my favorite time of year.
13. Getting back on track with home projects
14. Having handyman come out next week and take care of a few repairs needed that have been hanging around unfinished for over a year
15. Proud of changes I have made in me and liking myself more, whether H believes changes are genuine or not
16. Happy to be cooking healthy dinners for all of us again, even though I would rather throw it at H many times
17. Letting go of anger at H for being in spare room and enjoying have the bed all to myself.
18. Looking into getting myself a new truck without H help
19. Taking walks on my lunchbreak
20. Fully enjoying the close relationship I have with my S, while he is still young and before he turns into a teenager!
21. Continuing to be successful and impress my boss at my job
22. looking into looking even better than I do, for ME!
That's a good start for now. I will have to come back to this when I am feeling down. Even with the craziness going on, I really have so much to be thankful for. We forget sometimes
I like your list, mleigh.
So.....romance novels, huh....l may need to change it up a bit, too.
This is a great list. You've accomplished more than you think and as time moves along, you'll feel even better about yourself, i.e., more independent and stronger.
One last item to add to the list...be kind to myself and remember to take some time out of my busy life to pamper myself once in a while.
Enjoy your weekend.
Well I have been pretty proud of myself this last week. Between H concert Thursday night, sharks game Friday night, golf and dinner out Sunday.... I have been very easy going and go with the flow! Doing really good focusing on enjoying myself and not worrying so much about him. I just can't listen anymore to his complaining how he needs this fun guy stuff to release his stress. The guy does more stuff and has more fun than I have in a month! That is mainly because I am the caretaker for our S. I did manage to get out alone with friends on Saturday for a bit. Then S and I went out with friends on Sunday. I have not questioned, have not grilled, just letting the cards fall as the May.
So tonight H says he might be going to Lake Tahoe this weekend. I instantly felt sick to my stomach. He explained its for a friend of a friends wedding party. He isn't going to wedding but was invited to hang out with the guys there over the weekend, they all got a house to hang out at. I worry so much if he is telling the truth? Is he going with someone? Why can't I stop going back to this place of total distrust and suspicion? Would he really take someone to the place where we got married? Where we first officially got together and ML 15 years ago? Our special place we went to every year? Why did I ever have to discover he lied to me, did things behind my back? Why did he have to break my trust so I feel this way every single da** time he goes out? I hate this so much.
Now I have learned to keep my mouth shut. Don't ask stupid questions like "are you sure you aren't really taking a girl?" Like he would really tell me the truth! I have learned, and I took a deep breath and said " that sounds like fun! I don't have plans so I can take care of S". I can't believe how together I am. In all reality, there is nothing I can do. If he chooses to lie, it will eventually all come out. Or, we will finally reach a point where I can feel more trusting and not put myself through this.
Either way, I am really proud of how far I have come. The old me would have flipped out. The new me truly believes in the importance of guy/girl time away. In fact, I have a girl weekend planned myself in a few weeks! So, I pretty much saw this coming. Plus, after a year of snooping and never coming up with any proof of OW, My logical self says don't react on suspicion, only facts that I know. It wouldn't be fair otherwise.
So sorry for the rambling but sometimes I feel like he does these things just to try to test me? I know it sounds paranoid. But sometimes I feel like he almost makes things look bad, total passive aggressive behavior which he very much is. I don't know. I just feel like sometimes I feel like it's almost TOO obvious to be an affair. Does that make sense? He knows that is a huge fear of mine and I have asked him a hundred times. So I know! I will stay out extra late tonight, sleep on someone's couch, go away for the weekend just to punish her! Just thoughts that go through my mind. What happened to my 42 year old mellow H who never really did much of anything??
It feels good to not react even though I feel all jumbled inside. My whole being tells me, let it be in Gods hands. Let it happen, stay out of the way and let go. It feels so right.
Oh, and H must have been happy with my non reaction because he said if he doesn't go to Tahoe, he wants to take me and S to some tarantula fest thing. Lol! I despise spiders but ok! Ya right, I won't hold my breath.
An observation I have made with my at home MLC: He sleeps in the spare room, but still uses the Master bathroom and the master closet, except for a few clothes he keeps in the spare room with him. What is that about?
I am still hanging in there, doing real good with the detaching and letting go and it feels great. I am actually and honestly looking forward to H being away this weekend and having time at home alone with S. I wanted to share with others a few messages that help me tremendously:
Let go of what was and take hold of what is
H is losing out on time with ME
Let coming to me be his choice, not mine
Stop expecting normal
Thanks everyone and I hope these can help others too:)
Stop expecting normal.
That one's big for me right now.
Thank you!!!
I am feeling really good today guys! H is off for his weekend trip away. He came in early this morning while I was just waking up in bed to say goodbye. No hug or anything, but the effort was nice, wasn't expecting it.
This is the first time he has been away for more than a day since B day. I actually am happy for him, I think he needs this and deserves this. And the crazy thing? I am not feeling any bad feelings. I have little waves of anxiety here or there, but they go away pretty quickly. I feel good. Lake Tahoe has a lot of special meaning to us. I know I know, this means nothing to a MLCer. I do understand that. However, we officialy got together there, got married there and also went every year for family vacations. Maybe this will be good for him but I have no expectations.
More importantly, I am looking forward to hanging out with S this weekend having the whole house to ourselves! I have a movie to watch, a great book to read, going to the pumpkin patch and maybe a local Faire too! A good mix of relaxing and fun.
Yay for me!
Good for you! Definitely plan some fun things to do w/your son while the h is away. You need the mental break from his madness.
Happy Saturday! This is the first weekend I have looked forward to in a long time. No drama with H away. I am enjoying this a bit too much! But trying not to make too much of it. I think it's more that I am enjoying the break from the sitch, not so much H. I have not called or texted him, have no desire to.
Lots going on with me emotionally, in a good way. Since I have stopped talking about sitch with anyone, it's like it's gotten quieter in my mind. I am able to feel what I feel, I am able to listen to my own heart and my own feelings. Without all the yapping and negativity from others ( who only want me to be happy) I am better able to dig deep. Do I really love H? What made me pull away so much over the years? Can I accept H for who he is? What do I really want? Lot's going on in my head, but I am able to just go with it. It's not consuming me, I am just feeling and thinking.
H checked in with me Thursday night to let me know he arrived safe and sound. Wasn't really worried about it, but the old wife in me would have been and H acknowledged that by letting me know?
Last night, H called the house at 9:30 at night. He said he just called to talk with S, so I handed phone over. S talked for a few minutes then said daddy wanted to talk with me. I asked how his trip was going and he said good then asked about our plans today. I let him know we plan on going to a tarantula fest, which he was going to take us to if he wasn't away. He sounded happy about that. Not really sure why he called? Sounded like he was just checking in? Either way, I didn't expect to hear from him at all this weekend, so surprised about all that.
I have great plans for S and I this weekend and am so looking forward to it! Let's see. Today tarantula fest, a nap, some reading, then a movie and wine. Perfect! My girlfriend may be coming over too.
I choose to be happy today and have fun!
Sounds like you are in a good spot right now menatlly .. thats great !
I know for me .. back in Feb, W and I were taking S somewhere and she was telling him about the area we were passing through, where she went to college ... she asked if we could drive by ... so I take the detour ... we eneded up walking the campus, we got married in the church there on campus ... was the start of the end of the R with her OM honestly ... it was like a flood of the really great memories came out that day
Not saying this will happen to your H .. but I would think somewhere in his mind thoughts are starting to form reminding him of you ... might be as you said a good thing for him to be exposed to.
Thank you for the positive thoughts Caliguy! I know being in a place that holds a ton of our history must be doing something. I figure either he is remembering good times, maybe thinking maybe things weren't THAT bad. OR maybe he is thinking, this is MUCH better without the wife and kid! I have to stay realistic, right? Not to mention one of the guys there is getting married there today. It will be interesting to see if anything effected him.
Well, no tarantula fest today. S wanted to do pumpkin patch which was lots of fun. Did train ride and hayride. S said "that was really fun!" Made my day. Then went to rockery and picked out some different sized and colored rocks to start my rock garden in the back. It is so darn hot today, we are now locked in the air conditioned house being really lazy watching tv. I love this day!
It's Sunday and I am dreading H coming home today. What a wonderful break this has been. I have the house to myself, my S to myself, no awkwardness.... Is that bad? Am I mean? If H's presence causes me to feel awkward and uncomfortable, does this mean I need to detach even more? I have just become so aware of how I feel and act with H around vs him not being around. I know I should just be myself, I will need to work on that. His being away for 4 days has been an eye opener for me. Different then when I was living in apt. I liked the space but missed my dog and home. This way now feels right.
I had to go into "his" room to grab some Halloween decorations and also did the other night to make sure the window was locked up good. I resent feeling like I shouldn't go in there. He goes in and out of MB. I never go in there unless I need to get something out of the closet, but it always feels weird. A slap of reality maybe? However, I barely looked around. No desire, absolutely NO DESIRE to snoop. That is so big for me. I have come a long way there.
Hoping to get out and have some more fun with S today. Another hot one!
Glad you're having a low key weekend. Those drama free ( read H free) times are really necessary to regroup and recharge.
Hope the PMA lifts your spirits long after he's back from his trip.
Thank you Daring. I try to keep up the PMA.
H got home about 6:00 last night. I was reading, S was watching SpongeBob. S had absolutely no reaction to H walking in the door. I agree, it's really sad, but I can only do so much. So H comes over all dramatic saying HELLO!!?? to S looking for some kind of reaction. S got up and gave him a mediocre hug. Meanwhile I was still reading, but I at least said hi and asked how his trip was. So H turns away and says "Ugh. It's so great to be home", in a very sarcastic way. Hhhmmmmmm ok I didn't react, not a peep. But that really pissed me off. Why?
Well, first off, H didn't even tell S about his trip until the night before at bedtime when he told him he wouldn't see him the next day because he was going to Tahoe. That was it, all he said. S looked a little shell shocked but was ok about it. Overall, like you know, the weekend was WONDERFUL for S and I without the juvenile H drama. But I just can't let that comment go. Then once H got home, he immediately went and sat on the couch and watched Nascar.
So, maybe against the DB rules, but I just sent H a text. Just says in response to his comment last night, that S and I want nothing more than to be a family that plays together. (we do NOTHING together, just sit at home. Every weekend H goes out with the guys, S is never a part of any outing with H. H will spend one on one time with S about once or twice a month. H complains that S doesn't want to do anything with him) I told him that he excludes S from just about everything he does and that I believe S may have been hurt about H going to Tahoe (my S loves Tahoe) with no warning or explanation. I asked him did he expect us to be jumping up and down when he got home? I said that he has put us at the bottom of his priority list and that if he really wants a better relationship with S, that he should treat him like he is important, not just somebody he has time for when it's convenient for him. I told H that I know he loves S very much, but that I'm not so sure S knows that, to show him.
Whew. I would not have said anything but that comment ticked me off, I can't let it go. I haven't told him off in a while, but I really tried to make this one about him and S, not me. That really is a huge concern for me. The 2 of them have such a crappy relationship. I truly believe my H doesn't know how to really connect. He is this way with me, and now S. My S needs his dad. I try to help them along, but H needs to stop expecting relationships to just be good without any effort!
LOL. So I get a text back from H. He says I have given him some good info from websites on S and father relationships, so he was sending me a few for me. Two articles on coddling. Sigh. This has been an accusation of his (and his mother's) for a while. In all honesty, I don't think his mother gave H ENOUGH love and attention. Anyhoo, I responded by saying thank you, I will read them and am open to his feedback. I also asked for a specific situation recently that made him feel I was coddling? I'm interest to see if there is one, or if this is just his vicitimized and defensive comeback. How would he even know how I treat S?.... he's never around.
So yes, once again, I see my venting to him does no help or good. The man is completely in his own victimized selfish world.
So lots of back and forth texting today between H and I. I don't know how, but he turned his lack of a relationship with S into being my fault. Silly me, I forgot all about how he has been blaming this on me for years! i just finished by saying I am concerned about the 2 of them but I will stop caring or trying to help. He wrapped it up with a great and final punch of why would S want him when I let him play minecraft and bring him food and drinks all day. Seriously, so juvenile. I feel like I am trying to reason with a 10 year old.
So LESSON LEARNED for today! What a waste of time and energy! DETACH DETACH DETACH
Seriously guys. I really dislike this guy. I don't know how much longer I can stand.
mleigh4 - I feel for you. It is all so frustrating. I have similar feelings. I just can't think about living this way for years. I just keep taking it day by day. I am trying to release my fear so that I can just handle whatever comes. Prayers to you!!! I don't think I could do it if he still lived at home -I am just not that strong. I think I was half crazy while he was here.
mleigh, I know how that is...the blaming. It is so juvenile, I agree.
I'm glad you recognized what you needed to, and stopped the texting insanity!
Good for you. I hope your night gets better
.
Tomorrow is a new day.
Thank you Tuff and Shinig. It's been a REALLY bad day. H decided to work late tonight, after not seeing S for 4 days and giving him all of 5 minutes of attention last night. Of course, I love H not around. I just worry about S. But in all honesty, he really doesn't seem to care. So maybe I should stop worrying and let it be?
H knows how to push my buttons by attacking my parenting. Funny, if he thinks I am such a horrible mother, why does he leave it all up to me? Doesn't make sense to me, but does any of it??? Let's see I get S up, get breakfast, pack his lunch, get him to school. I pick him up, dinner, bath, homework, chores and bedtime. All on me. What does H do? Good question. Cake eat and critique. Once in a while he will play with S or back me up on discipline, but not much more these days. H is way into his own world for much more.
I had my cry fest. I let it out. Something keeps telling me this is all happening for a reason. There is some purpose to this. I am a great mother. My S is my world and loves me so much. I am an amazing and loving person. I will not let H change that. I will stay true to myself. H is in more pain than me. Practice compassion and patience. I can do this. It will be ok. No matter what happens, I will be ok.
mleigh4
Reading the boards .. and your sitch .. seems lately we are all struggling with the R between our WAS and our children. I at times have been in the same boat ... but what can we do really ... there is no forcing the crazed MLCrs into being sane around the children, I have just accepted I can not control the R between my S and my W. And you are right .. any judgement/advice we give is typically wrapped up and hand delivered back to us in a spiteful .. "Its actually your fault" type response ... (I have even been given its her own mothers fault as well)
So ... what can we do ... exactly what we are doing .. be that beacon, lighthouse, rock .. whatever it is ... what my S does not get from the WAW I pray he will get from me, see the way I handle and conduct myself and hope he mirrors me and does not ever think its right what his MLC does ... I also do not want him resenting her.
Thank you Caliguy. I have noticed our timelines and children situations are similiar and was going to ask you how you deal with your W? I guess I just keep forgetting that I am not dealing with a rational adult right now. It amazes me and frustrates me to no end how my H manages to twist things around on me. Again, I need to stop expecting normal!! Your advise is good, just need to be the good example and hope for the best. What else can we do??
I am emotionally drained today. Still having a hard time stopping myself from crying, having a good pity fest these 2 days. But I know I will pick myself right back up again and keep marching on. I have 2 choices. I can keep my chin up and stick this out to see what may happen, or until H takes his next step. Or, I can file for divorce. Both choices make me unhappy and are hard, but for today, I choose choice 1. It's best for all of us and something in me tells me it's the right choice.
For the vets - I have a question. I don't see much changing or getting better unless H looks at himself and stops the blame game. In MLC, does this eventually happen? Because knowing my H for over 14 years, he has always been the victim and always thinks he is right. Very very stubborn. I know every situation is different, but in MLC, is part of the awakening looking at themselves and wanting to make changes to be a better husband and better father?
What happened to all the mid life crisis links? The light house and all that? Did it all get purged?
Cadet is working on a new thread with the links. However, it takes time to get things set up correctly. He does have his regular Welcome posting that has the links for newcomers at this time. Here is Cadet's Welcome Page info:
"This is now the most current version to this post if anyone has any comments, additions, subtractions, or edits, please post them on this thread.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
However due to the board PURGE this POST is under reconstruction and
we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version,
sorry for the confusion.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Reccomended Reading thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483893#Post2483893 The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...619#Post2484619MLC for Dummies
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960393&page=1Great one liners
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...true#Post894543TMAK Reconnection
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...011#Post2485011Snippits from the Anne Sheffield depression site
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=851708#Post851708Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484259#Post2484259Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869Odds and Ends from Delboy
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2488315#Post2488315The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon"
BTW, yes, many of the old threads and postings were removed during the purge, so I suggest that if you see something that you want to refer back to again and again, to please copy and paste it into a document or print it off. No one knows when the powers to be may opt to purge once again.
I am now convinced that MLC brings on memory loss. There are several things in need of repair around our home that H is famous for starting on, but not finishing. TONS! H is the worst with this. So I decided finally to hire a handyman to come out and do a few things. I mentioned this to H a couple of weeks ago, even told him to let me know if he thinks of anything for him to do. So, last night, I let H know the handyman will be here tomorrow morning. H says "Handyman!! For what? What are you going to have him do?". So I told H my list, just a few things, one of them being a window shade we have for a huge window in our foyer, that has been sitting there in the corner after being taken down to paint our walls 2 years ago. H says, "I can do that!". I said, "Well, it's been there for 2 years....." with a smile! We laughed, but he seemed to be.....I don't know..... frazzled? Hurt? That I was taking care of this without him. I also let him know the cabinet guy was coming out next week to refinish our kitchen cabinets, another project that has been on the back burner for YEARS! Got the same reaction from H.
So handyman comes this morning and there was 1 issue with a light switch that I figured I better run by H, since he seemed to feel so out of the loop last night. So I text H with my question, he answers that he can fix this himself today. Really? All of a sudden he has the time? Isn't he working all day? WTH? I just told him, let's let the handyman handle it since he is already there, that I know H is busy and to not worry about it. With another happy face.
Did I handle that ok? H seems so uninterested with anything to do with home, so I am handling it myself, and now he is feeling hurt? Almost makes me feel guilty. Almost.
Second that on the MLC and the memory loss .. my W has admitted it herself ... we have been separated a lmost a year now and she still is confused on what days she has our S.
I think you handled the Handyman fine .. I was just reading alot of the MLC traits ... and to me you taking care of it with a handyman shows you are in a sense GAL and doing what needs to be done without him. MLC or not .. that stings ... in his head he probably thinks you need him ... I know my W does that (our sitchs seem to mirror in alot of ways) I had all my shirts pressed and made dentist appts for S and she was upset saying she could not take time off work, I informed her I was taking him and already took the day off ... the look on her face was priceless ... 180 for me.
Oh so true!
I had my w text me 2 days before school started to say that D14 had failed her eye test at school with her contacts on and needed to see the eye Dr. BEFORE school started. I asked why she had waited until today to tell me and she "forgot". I told her I'd look into it and had to take a day off work, take D14 to the eye Dr. and order new contacts for her. I texted her back that I made an appt. to take her and she said "I can't take off work!" I told her that I had it handled and explained what i was planning. You know what I got back? Nothing. Not a word. When I texted her the next day all she wanted to know was how much it cost.
I think they are somewhat embarrassed by the memory loss and the last thing they want to do is admit any "weakness"! Also, they never want to say "Thank you" for anything you do that may help them out.
You handled the handyman situation very well. You've waited long enough to have that shade put back up (2 years). There are some people in this world that will start a project and then drop it and say that they will get to it and never do. I'll be curious to see if he fixes the switch for you today. LOL!
You are doing great and btw, I would have called a handyman too.
Thank you for your responses. I think it bruised his ego a little but oh well. He sure hasn't been feeding mine! I have always been very independent by nature. I grew up with a single mom and was trained to never rely on anyone, do it yourself! So it comes naturally and I believe it is one of the traits my H fell in love with. I guess he isn't liking it much right now, but it is a part of me that I had lost and missed!
This journey has been bringing out parts of me that got lost during marriage and motherhood. I have been reading novels again like crazy. Taking bubble baths. Watching chick flicks and old funny sitcoms. Buying flattering clothes and lingerie. Spending time with my girlfriends. Planning things for ME. It feels good. However, I miss having that other piece. The husband to come home to with hugs and kisses. The husband to talk to about my day, who actually cared. The husband to plan outings with. The husband to snuggle up with. I miss it so much.
Why doesn't he???
I'm very happy to read that you are rediscovering yourself. That is what your journey is all about...YOU! Keep up the good work.
I had an interesting quick talk with H tonight. In a couple of weeks, we have an annual camping trip coming up. It's a huge Halloween trip where the entire campground decorates the sites and dresses up. Big trick or treat with candy and adult beverages. It's just super fun and we have been going for several years. Anyway, I mentioned a few weeks ago because S and I are going no matter what. I already know I can man the RV so it's on. But I asked H if he planned on going or if I should invite someone. We go Friday thru Sunday. H said he had planned on coming up on Saturday. Well, knowing how flaky these MLC'ers are, I decided to invite a friend and her S who is a buddy of my S. She called tonight to confirm and we are super excited.
Anyway, I guess H was curious about who I was talking to. He actually asked. I told him who it was and that they were going to come with us the camping weekend. H was surprised, but seemed happy for us because we will have a blast. So a little later he was asking some questions, about other friends that go and are they going. I answered that yes, the regular gang will be there. I am super excited, but at the same time, I am sad that we won't be there as a family. So I told H to make sure he explains to S that he won't be going with us, that it isn't for me to do. H said he would. Then, after that internal debate, I told H that I know we will have fun, but that I am sad and disappointed that we will not be going together as a family. He says he figures I am uncomfortable having him around. WHAT??? I told him, please don't say that. That you know this isn't about me and that isn't true. He was quiet. So I said, hey, I am not trying to fight. I just want you to know that I am sad about what has happened here. H said he knows. Then he said he didn't mean to fight with the texts the other day. H said he knows we both got defensive and he didn't mean for it to go the way it did. (WOW!). FTR, H never apologizes so that was big for him. I told him I know, we both get defensive and that I didn't mean for it to turn that way either.
Wow, I had my adult H back for a quick chat. It was nice. When he comes to our KOA camp out, I will make sure to let him know he is welcome and keep it light. Oh, BTW, H complained about how the handyman fixed a light switch. Lol!
I am processing what he said. I guess I didn't do a good job of validating. If I could do a redo, when he said he figures I am uncomfortable having him around, I would say "you feel that way?" If he said yes, I would say "I know things have changed, but I very much want to do things as a family". Darn. That would have been much better than what I said. I hope I got that point across to him. He has declined every family trip in the last year, I just have gotten tired of asking and being rejected. Maybe I should test that out with the next outing? Or leave it be? Maybe he is just temp checking to make sure I am still here?
I guess I will see what feels right to me.
meligh4, I love your title for this thread.
I loved to read that you are working on you and GAL and doing family things without your H.
US LBS have to continue to move forward, while leaving a door open for our S's if they decide to return and we are still open to a R with them.
It's hard to validate when you want to defend and or correct what the MLC is saying, sometimes we will get it right and sometimes not.
I also got back to loving myself, pampering myself, buying new clothes and under garments, spending extra time getting myself ready.. I also had put me on the back burner when I become a Mom and a wife, this was wrong for me and for my M.
Whatever the outcome, we have to continue to work on being the best we can be. I dont want the old me back or the old M.
My H MLC has been a gift to me in a way...
Hi mleigh,
I think what you said was fine. In fact, based on his response, it seems like it was the perfect response! I would kill to hear my W say half those things!
I think it was the right thing to say because it's so true. My W before leaving tried over and over again to find a way to be able to go and not have to say it was her idea. She'd say or do something awful, I would react, she would spew about how it was all my fault that she did what she did and how horrible I am....you know the "dance of the MLC fairies". After, she would ask me if I felt "too uncomfortable" with her living with me knowing that she "no longer wanted to be M" or sometimes "no longer 'in love' with me" or whatever it was that time, that she could move out. Maybe go to her mothers or something....
It's a cop out IMO. A way for them to get the LBS to be the "bad guy". Not their idea to leave. Not their idea to not do things as a family, no, it's because YOU felt "uncomfortable". Great way to push the responsibility onto the LBS.
I think what you said was great. You made it known that you still want to be a family, that none of this was your idea and he needs to understand that this is all happening because of what HE is doing, not YOU.
If I were you I wouldn't "over think" this. IMO, what you said was perfect!
Thank you 2behappy and Matt!
Matt, my H recently told his mom that he doesn't leave because he doesn't want to be the bad guy. Even after I have asked him to move out a couple of times for my own sanity. I honestly don't know why he is here. To have his part time family, then also be able to escape us when the opportunity comes up? It infuriates me. Even though I am GAL, I feel so used and taken advantage of in my own home. It is like he is waiting me out, so he can say "she filed". It is truly the most confusing, frustrating and exhausting situation I have ever dealt with.
I have been thinking a lot about some posting about not being open to our MLC'ers. About being closed off to where they may not feel safe to approach. I believe I haven't been very approachable. I also have been paying close attention to our home and the atmosphere here. In all honesty, it hasn't had the best vibe for awhile. Of course, most of that is due to the sitch, but there are things I can change to make things better for all of us.
For example, I pick up S after work and we almost always get home before H. Usually by the time H gets home, I'm absorbed in a book and S will be absorbed in a game. Sometimes we don't or barely say hi to one another. Horrible! How can you blame H for feeling like an outsider? ( he has said that before). I have noticed that we tend to all be in different rooms most of the night. Now, in my defense, I do that to give H space right now. But maybe he doesn't always want that? And what kind of example is that for S? So I decided to try something different tonight. When H got home, I right away said hi. When H started complaining about traffic, I put my book down and went to sit next to him to listen. He talked and talked and talked about his day and work. Well, then time for dinner and now he wants to watch a movie all together. What!!?? I wasn't expecting such a nice reaction, I am pleasantly surprised
H and S just left to do a quick run to the store, my S wants some water colors to paint us some Halloween pics, then movie time.
I plan on trying out some more 180's with no expectations of course. I think I am strong enough now to test some stuff out without feeling too devastated with rejection? It's worth a try, certainly can't hurt.
Thanks to all this week. It's been tough for some reason, I have been really emotional. But the change in me has been to not react on those emotions. To just feel and think about them. It's true about us being in a bit of a fog. I feel I come in and out of it a lot.
The motto here is "when something isn't working, try something different". If you do some 180's and maybe open up a bit and try to chat w/your h about things that he might be interested in, he may very well reach out to you a wee bit. Try not to engage in relationship talks because he may very well shut down and walk away.
Keep your expectations low and try to think of him as a skittish kitten who needs some coaxing to come near you. Drop some of those kindness kibbles down and see if he'll reach for them.
Good luck!
Thanks Job. Yes, I think I am ready to do that and also be able to do it with no expectations. I also am doing everything in my power to not initiate any R talk. I feel it's ok to express feelings once in a while, but I don't want to go into "what is the plan? What are we going to do?" Because I honestly don't think we are anywhere near knowing the answer to that.
The bottom line is, I love my H. I want to grow old with him, that hasn't changed. So do I stomp my feet and risk losing almost 15 years of what we have built because of a really bad rough patch? No. I need to let this ride out on its own. When I look back at how H handled me during my shutdown period, I think he used great DBing tactics. He didn't push, gave me space, never threatened to leave, he was just there. And sure enough I came back. Now obviously it took its toll on him, but now it's my turn to be the lighthouse. With the understanding that he may or may not come back. It has to be his choice and on his timeline.
For the last 14 years, I have always described my H as a very stand up guy. My description was always that he is an honest to goodness good guy. A man you could count on. He never gave me a reason to think he was lying, never was a wandering eye or flirt, always responsible. Almost to a point where I sometimes thought of him as somewhat boring? I know it's horrible. I only say that because before H, I was normally attracted to bad boys or guys that gave me a challenge. Someone I could "fix". H was a relief from all of that. I decided I would take boring over drama anyday.
But I catch myself, creating this monster of H in my head. Actually this sitch has made both of us make monsters out of each other. The accusations we have made to each other have not been good. H has accused me of things that I would never do, and it makes me sad to think of how he sees me now. One comment he said to me really sticks. I had told him that I couldn't put into words how much he and my friend hurt me with there after hours one night of texting. He replied that he can't put into words how much it hurt him that I believed all the things I was making up in my head about him.
I have accused him over and over of lying to me about his whereabouts and having an affair. I don't think I can be blamed for that too much. He is hanging out with all new people, no one I have ever met. S and I are excluded every single time. Late nights, car shows, concerts, weekend in Tahoe, sleeping on people's couches, working late or on weekends. It's all so out of character for him. After a year, I have never found proof of OW. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth. All I know is that it wears on me tremendously. Enough so that I hired a PI that I never went through with. But I have stopped snooping and figure if there is something up, it will eventually come out. Even with getting a life and keeping myself busy, it is always there in my mind. Something just doesn't smell right to me, but Deep deep in my heart I am not convinced it is OW. I don't know what that feeling I have is, but it holds me back from really opening up to H. It keeps me untrusting and suspicious. I am terrified to let down my wall and be loving and friendly to have him only leave home into someone else's arms, to laugh at what a naive dope I am. I am so scared of that. My therapist tells me, he wouldn't be making a fool of me as I worry, he would be making a fool of himself. I try to see it that way. But I'm not quite sure what I can do to ease that fear. I am hoping that maybe by doing some 180's and spending some better quality time while at home, that maybe I can see my H more for who he really is, that man I know so well, and not see him as the alien he has become or the monster I see in my head.
I bought the 5 love languages and am eager to read it as I have heard so many good things about it.
Just a quick update before I head to work. I continue to keep the atmosphere at home comfortable. I am still making the effort to give H time and attention when he talks, and space when he is quiet. The weekend was good. H went to visit an old friend on Saturday. An old friend! Who I know well! Who's ex wife I will be with this weekend! I guess he is not doing too well. H seemed a little down when he got home, and he was home before 10 on a Saturday night.
Sunday H cleaned out his work van while S and I ran errands and bought some great new Halloween decorations. S and I like to sit in hot tub, it's only heated by sun so perfect temp in the summer. I made myself a margarita and decided to offer H one. What guy doesn't like to be served a margarita by his wife in a bathing suit while he is working in garage? A 180 for me. Overall it was a nice weekend.
My PMA is staying high. I am sleeping, eating and so much more productive at work when things are calm at home. We leave for camping tomorrow. H says he will come out on Saturday. I told him that everyone wants him there. I only said that because of his comment that he wasn't going because I was uncomfortable.
I also have been doing 1 little something each day to let H know I am thinking of him. Nothing huge, just little everyday things. It makes me feel good. I think I am getting the hang of detachment with an open door. I very much feel that and it is working for me.
Sounds like you are doing great .... posts like these are good to read for those of us having not so good days
Keep it up!!
Back from our weekend camping trip. We had fun, but things at home backslid a little. Thursday night was a little hectic for me getting ready for our trip. Meanwhile, H was also getting stuff ready for his trip he left on today. For whatever reason, it irked me that he wasn't going to see his S for days, and didn't seem to care. He was so preoccupied with himself and maybe said 5 words to S. I don't know, I need to stop telling H how to be a dad. But I let out a little spew on him asking why he didn't want to spend some time with S before we left? I told H he has Friday night and Saturday to do this stuff! Why do I care??? This may come from being abandoned by my own father, I want so much more for my S and I was so careful to pick a guy. who I thought would be an amazing father and H. Something to talk with IC about this week.
Anyway, H was home Friday night in time to see us off. Yes I manned the RV on my own! A huge 180 for me to do this stuff on my own.
H had said he planned on coming out on Saturday to visit. He didn't. Blamed it on needing to do stuff for his trip, change the oil in the jeep. (Do I even bother checking the garbage for oil cans? They won't be there). H asked that S call him. S said he didn't want to. Not sure if S was upset about H flaking so I didn't push it. Just TM H that S didn't want to at the moment. Didn't hear anymore from H after that.
This morning H called to talk with S and say bye on his way to hunting. Didn't say much to me, but I expected that. So I get home and go to throw something in garbage. There are 2 fast food containers and 2 drinks. They were closed up in the bag so yes I mini snooped. So, who was at my house and became more important then us yesterday? My mind Is racing, but I am really trying to not let it. No lipstick marks on the straw (pathetic that I even checked for that). really hope it was just a friend who came and hung out for a bit. Thing is, H never has friends over.
I hate this feeling so much. Hate it hate it hate it. I want so badly to ask the neighbor if he saw anyone over, but I will NOT let myself. Don't like that image of myself. I am doing all I can to let this go right now. I am sick of him letting S down. I am sick of feeling like he lies to me. I am sick of who I see when I look at him. It's not the person I thought I knew.
So since he is hunting he usually is in a remote area so I don't expect to hear from him until wed. No goodbye, nothing between us. I am going to enjoy this gift of space right now. I love having the house to ourselves. H is with an old family friend that went through an amazing marriage reconciliation after he had an affair and I know he plans on talking to H about us. He talks to troubled spouses at his church. God help us. Please lead my H to some clarity as to what he should do.
I'm glad to read that you and your s had a nice camping trip. Congratulations on how you handled the RV. That is truly a 180 and now you know you can do anything you set your mind to do.
About your h and hunting...I know many men who get so spun up about hunting and the first day of open season that they only think about packing up and getting to where they need to be. Not making excuses, but hunting may have been the only thing he was thinking about at the time. I'm sorry he didn't show much interest in his son and yes, he should have spent some time w/him before he left on his trip.
Who knows what he did on Saturday, but it does sound like someone came over for a bit or he went somewhere and then came home and cleaned out his vehicle. The person may have come over to discuss his upcoming trip or just to hang out for a bit...but he should have been honest w/you. But, of course, it's easier for the person in crisis to lie because then they don't have to share details w/you. Again, I'm sorry about the way he behaved.
I hope your friend can get through to your h about reconciliation, but he may not. In fact, your h may distance himself from him or even tune him out. Mlcers don't like to have others try to change their minds about what they are doing.
Mleigh, enjoy your time while he's away. Continue to pray and yes, dig for more patience. The answers will come when you least expect them.
PMA better today. Actually it got better last night. I always feel better after posting my thoughts and worries here instead of talking with someone who doesn't get it.
After settling down last night, I am pretty confident that H just had a friend or even his dad over. I actually visualized a girl here, in my house full of family pics, feeding H fast food instead of a home cooked meal. (Shame on her) Then what? Into the spare room where H lives like a teenager in his own home?? It's downright comical and pathetic, and I don't see it or feel it. Anxiety in check
H texted this morning while he was sitting under a tree waiting for the sun to come up. Said he found a spot with cell service. Thanked me for sending him pics of our camping weekend and sent me some of the sunrise and him and his hunting buddies. Was very unexpected, so it was nice to hear from him.
Looking forward to being off work soon, grabbing my adorable sweet S and hunkering down at home. We were both exhausted this morning after our weekend fun
Another good PMA day. I really enjoy H being away, not having to deal with the weirdness of MLC. H texted again today. He came upon an abandoned cabin in the middle of nowhere. He sent some pictures. Another very unexpected surprise. I have a special ring when H text and a coworker even said, your H never texts you this much! Lol, tell me about it! I can't believe I am even on his mind, but I like that he is sharing this stuff with me. I am responding with nice simple replies.
H is coming home tomorrow so I will enjoy my last night of peace and calmness
. I have appt with IC tomorrow morning which I look forward to. I am very curious to see if family friend that H is with will have any effect on him. I am not getting my hopes up, just wondering. I know without a doubt he will have talked with him about his own marriage reconciliation. But I also know in MLC they don't always hear or care.
Just hoping a little I guess
Sounds like you and your son have had a very nice, peaceful time while your h has been away. It will be interesting to see how he is once he's returned home. I'm sure he'll have a lot to tell you about his hunting adventure.
It's okay to hope, but keep your expectations very low or at zero.
I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers that maybe, just maybe, something clicked for him and he realized just how good he had it at home w/his family.
Enjoy your last night of peace and quiet.
Job - I just want to thank you (and so many others) for your responses, they are always so helpful and guiding. Can you come live with me for a while to keep me in line?? But honestly, I always look forward to reading what you have to say, not just to me but also to others. Also, thank you so much for having our family in your prayers, it means a lot to me
I'm glad that I can help you and the other posters. Sometimes it helps to know that someone is here to just listen and offer up some moral support when a poster needs it.
Stay positive and no matter what happens, just be yourself. Your h may come home tomorrow in a good frame of mind. Listen and validate. Show some interest in what he has to say about hunting. I know it might not be your favorite topic, but it might shed some light on where his mind was at during his time away.
Hang in there and I'll be thinking about you.
Update and I need your input guys! H came home early from hunting last night, wasn't supposed to be back until today. The family friend he was with was not feeling well, he is about 70 so don't want to risk anything. Anyway, H was chipper as can be, telling us stories and showing S pics. I went to get S bath read and came across a small bottle of body wash in the spare bath shower. Now, it very well could be ours, I have tons of these from vacations, but it didn't look familiar. Some fancy organic brand.
So between this and knowing H had someone over while we were away, (food and drink containers in kitchen garbage), I needed to know. I wanted to believe FIL came over to watch Sharks game. So I ask H if he talked to his dad before he left to his trip to Hawaii yesterday. H said no, but that he texted him while hunting. So I said, oh, then who was over? H got a very blank, confused look on his face. I said again, who was over this weekend ? I saw drink containers in the garbage so looks like you had company. H, with same look, looked up in the air and answered real softly, Phil. I asked, who is Phil?? H answered, of course, a guy from work! I really get the feeling he is lying.
So I asked H to explain. He said he was too busy getting ready for hunting to come to our camp out, only 1/2 hour from home, but he found time to have Phil over. Another person I have never heard of or met? He just looks at me.
So I asked H, why do I get the feeling you are lying? He just said I don't know. I told H, this is our home. I hope to god you are telling me the truth. I said I know you are angry with me and don't think very highly of me, but that doesn't mean I can be treated with disrespect. I said I try so hard to believe you are telling me the truth about your concerts. Late nights out, trip to Tahoe, all with people I have never heard of. And now this along with finding body wash in our bathroom??? I said again, this is our HOME. The only thing he said over and over is I know. I know.
I will NOT tolerate someone coming into my home. But once again, I have no concrete proof. I go to see IC in an hour. What should I do???
Talk to your IC about the incident. If your h is lying, he is not going to tell you the truth when being confronted. You have said what you needed to say, now sit back and observe. There's not much else you can do except hire a PI, which is very expensive, or boot him out...but you don't have enough evidence to do that. In the future, when you find something, keep it to yourself for a while and see if he trips up. Many of them babble enough that you can sift through the babble and get clues.
I know you want things to get back to normal, but the more you react and confront, the more he's going to hide and lie, just like a little boy does w/his mother.
I'm sorry this happened, but I hope that things will settle down and you can find some comfort in your session today.
My issue is not knowing who was in my house. Everything I own is in there. Valuables, intimate things, my son's things. This person knows where I live. I am NOT OK with this. I know he is lying, I can feel it. He has never talked about Phil, never said he has hung out with Phil, Phil has never been over, there is no way he decided to come "hang out" while H was so busy getting ready for hunting. H is lying. My therapist says it doesn't matter what is causing the issues, what matters is how it effects me and my son. He wants me to get out of the R. I agree that H should leave. His behavior upsets our home way too much and I am so sick of it all. Legally I can't boot him and he isn't leaving on his own.
When I left this morning for work, H asked if we needed anything at the store or Costco. Nice try. I told him we need to talk about his visitor, that I am not buying it. He just said "ok". I know where this person lives and will go over there if I have to to get the truth.
I know I am stirring up the pot and kicking the dust. But when it comes to my home, patience and compassion is out the window. If I didn't feel so strongly about him lying, I wouldn't be doing this.
I can understand how you feel. So, with that being said, sit down w/your h tonight and have a calm discussion w/him. Lay out the fact that you are not comfortable w/strangers (to you and your son) being in your home when you are not there. Keep in mind that he very well may advise you that it is his home as well and he will have whomever he pleases over at any time, i.e., just as you can. The bottom line is that you have to remain calm and don't accuse him of anything (as you have already done so). When you accuse him of stuff he becomes defensive and lies even more. You'll be able to better judge whether or not he's truthful when you are talking to him. Watch his behavior.
My question to you is this...are you prepared to hear his answers? What if they aren't what you want to hear? What is your strategy then? Whatever you do, do not make idle threats. Whatever you tell him in the way of boundaries, stick to them.
Stay calm and try to keep your emotions in check. The calmer you are, the better. Good luck!
Thank you for your support Job. I am much calmer now.
I guess what it comes down to is this. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth, just like with anything else. I am still rocked by the fact that the one person I completely trusted and depended on did in fact do things behind my back and in finding that out killed my trust. He has not earned that back yet. I feel it is too much to ask of me to sit back and let him use our home like a hotel to do what he pleases as it fits him at the moment. To expect me to believe his stories and be out all hours and overnight and be ok with it. To be ok that he gives his S maybe 10 minutes of undivided attention a day, and makes everything else in his world a higher priority. To let him know how hurt I am feeling, and have him look back at me with complete deadness in his eyes. To force me to take on so much responsibility of our home and our child without even a blink.
There is no right or wrong here, it is what I can take and what I can live with. I have felt like a low priority and very unloved for many years. Not since just BD, but much longer. Maybe H gave as much as he could, but it was not enough for me. And to live like this now, I can't do it. However in dealing with this experience, I realize how strong I am and what I can accomplish and handle in life. It's much more than I ever thought. And when I look in the mirror, I am proud of the person I see and how far she has come. I deserve much better than this.
If H and I talk, I will let him know how I feel. I'm sure it will go upon deaf ears, but at least I can express myself and know when I look back that I did all I can do. We will see how that goes and I can make some decisions from there.
Looks like I need to start a new thread soon.
Ok, I have slept on this and thought this over. I know it may go against DB rules, but I am going to have a chat with H. Trust has been broken, he has not earned it back. I can't turn a blind eye when he is living in the same house, yet going out all hours or weekends away with people I never heard of. At the same time, to choose to not make any decision one way or the other in regards to M.
I just can't do it. I have my limits. Now that someone has been in my house, that is way way way too close to home. I know I don't have proof of OW, but either way, my heart, gut and his behavior is enough for me to know that this is not working for me.
He has 3 choices. Talk to someone to sort out his feelings. Talk to someone together with me. Or get out.
I am not expecting a good reaction, he will not be happy. I don't care. I am done walking on egg shells and trying to talk myself into dealing with painful behaviors, to just be patient. Maybe I can do that, with him OUT of the house. I can't have it in my face, day to day. Now with strangers in my house and more lies. Not happening. Having someone in my house has really really spooked me out. In a normal M, normal situation, this would not be a big deal. With my H and his actions lately, I'm not feeling right about it.
If you have a discussion w/him, please try to remain clam. The calmer you are, the more he may listen. It's when we get really emotional that they tune us out completely and think we are just having a bad day. State what is on your mind and stick to your boundaries.
Good luck!
I went home at lunch and H was home since he took the week of for vacation to do the hunting thing. Since S is at school, it was a perfect time to talk. I stayed very calm. We talked about everything, I validated his feelings, talked about my own. He got upset a few times about my parenting and how I treated him. I can't get over the anger he has towards me sometimes. He still swears he is doing what he says with who he says. I asked him if he had any ideas on how to make it possible to live at home and have it be comfortable for us all as it just isn't working for me. He agreed that it wasn't working for him either. That he doesn't like sleeping in the spare room, but that he just cant...... He stopped there. Sleep with me is most likely what he would have said? Am I a leper now? I cried a little, couldn't help it, but there was no comfort from him. I expected that too.
So I went over the 3 options. To talk with someone alone, talk with someone together or leave. I explained that it just didn't make sense to stay in the house if we are not actively working on our marriage together. Not to mention the example S is getting. He agreed with that. So, he says he must need to move out then. He talked about the financial situation and what if he isn't paying me enough then we find out later that he owes me some lump sum of money.....Really?? I told him I am not out to get him. That this situation has made us look at each other as monsters and he knows I am not the type of person to go after someone. I told him we will make it work so that we are both financially comfortable. That we will figure it out. And that no matter what happens we will stay friends since we have a son to raise together and will be in each other's lives for a long time. He put his head in his hands and just sat there for a minute.
I asked if the separation would be to take a break and see what happens? H said he is hoping the space would ease some of the tension between us and we can be friends again. Of course still no commitment either way.
So I was prepared for that, he is pretty clear in that he "doesn't have it in him to work on us". I am now curious to see if he really does this. I am not going to help him look for a place, he needs this reality check on his own. He was overwhelmed just talking about where to move and what he needs in the house to park his vechicles and blah blah blah. His problem, not mine.
I feel better. I ate for the first time in 2 days. I also stopped crying for the first time in 24 hours. This is why I had to take this step. It may bite me by pushing him out, but I know this is not the way I can live either.