I need your help.
I have been absent because things have been very ' weird' for lack of a more sophisticated word.
From my last posts, I had spoken about H seeming to be more present, more engaged.
This has continued especially with family and the kids in particular.
We also had begun discussing ( a few months back) the possibility of moving back together.
Few had a conversation in June in which he told me he will 'end his affair' and that to go from the 'if' to the ' when' of moving back together, we would talk more over the summer.
Fast forward to last week.
Me and the kids and H and all of H's family are in Germany where we meet every summer and Christmas. The past several MLC years, H has only joined us for 1 week out of the four weeks we stay here.
This year he says he is staying the whole time.
We have a good week. Nothing romantic, but good. No talks, just all of us being together, enjoying each other's company. He would tell me when he was leaving the house. He bought me a new iPad. It has been so very pleasant thank God.He seems to have upgraded me from from persona non grata to his equal.
Yesterday I see a text message from OW ( was NOT snooping... He was showing all something on his phone and it appeared). I felt like I was taken back to three years ago...the darkest of the MLC days.
Last night...
We have a talk. It's not so much of a talk and more of a vomit of anger, hurt and stubbornness. I tell him I cannot do this anymore. I am not able to continue like this. OW must go. I flubber and blubber I become a ball of emotion. The only time I check myself is when we speak about the kids, I genuinely tell H that he uses the kids in our discussions ( I don't think he realized he did). He actually took it well.
Anyway, not a very productive conversation otherwise.
This morning..
It continues somewhat. More anger. I fail at putting my 3 years of learning into practice. Only in hindsight do I see the alternative ways I could have led the conversation withe perhaps the same outcome.
He tells m he is thinking about us moving back together. In a year's time ( that was the timeline we were agreed to because of kids' schooling), and that he would respect my boundaries ( he lives in Dubai now...we would go and live as a family. His affair needs to be laid to rest). And also tells me that he has ended his affair as of two weeks ago.
He actually said ' I ended my affair'
I said he can't talk to her anymore. He said I can't tell him who he can and cannot speak to. He said they are not friends. I tried to talk about needed to close it up and have NC. It was not a good time. So much had already been said.
I did manage to at least say I am not trying to control him even though it sounds like it I know. I just couldn't get the right words out and it was not the right time.
He said he sees us moving back together as a family but not into the same bedroom.
I said then what?
He said he doesn't know. If things continue to get better between us we can see what happens.
I said are you going to respect our marriage vows?
He said well I am your legal husband. He said he needed more time.
We said we will let the dust settle and talk again later.
I am numb. I imagined over the years that I would have felt a sense of pure relief and joy when his affair ended. Instead I just feel like I have been hit over the head and not sure what just happened.
H has never once faltered in the past 4 years. He never said I miss you, he never acted with doubt, he never once hinted that he cared what he walked away from.
He never said his affair was over. Until now. God Protect Us.
Oh man... What now?
Wow. Busting.
I need to digest this. I suspect you do too.
I notice that everything is about what HE wants. He seems to have this planned out nicely in his MLC brain.
What do YOU want?
I'm not sure it should be so easy for him to simply say, "I'm moving back in one year." ?
He seems to be making all the rules.
One other thing. Last year, Smokey, briefly had second thoughts and started coming around again. He spoke of our future together and said the OW was not in the picture.
I was thrilled and stopped posting on the boards for those months.
Things quickly went south. I "forgot" all I learned and went with my instincts and, now, see that I shouldn't have.
I don't think it would've made much difference because he was still deeply in replay...I can see now.
BUT, my posting and asking for support would have definitely helped me and I could have handled things much, much better.
I know it's tempting to disappear when things are going well. I would encourage you to stay in touch while you sort through all this.
Just my two cents.
Hi heather :-) I've been reading you just not posting a lot and you really sound good. It makes me happy.
I may have described some things inaccurately.
I am ready to leave Sudan. I told H this months ago. I told him I was giving it one more school year ( because I work at the school he kids attend) to resign properly, give the kids time to get used to the move and look for a new place to live and a new school. At the time of telling him this we were not talking about living together again.
That's why it is a year timeline ...
His demeanor is more positive than negative and more ' I am confused' than ' this is what will happen'.
It's so hard to explain ... I hope that made sense....
Awwww, thanks :-) I'm being a big ol slug today.
Yes, you make sense.
I don't know Busting...what do you say when things are going WELL??? Um, hmmm...
All I can think of is..."Let's all grab some popcorn (you too!) watch what happens."
Sounds like he is coming outta it. Why does this remind me of a very long, hard, breach labor?
But, it gives me hope. I feel hope Busting for you and all of us...maybe some REALLY DO COME OUTTA IT!
You got this...I'm glad you vented some to him.
With MLC, AS THIS JOURNEY CONTINUES ON AND ON AND ON AND ON....I feel like I get more and more convinced that pretty much nothing we DO OR DON'T DO MAKES MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE. I think we can only take care of ourselves and do our best as we get through it.
Just be true to Busting. And, relish the positives. There's a crowd of us feeling the glory of those moments with you. Smokey hasn't seen or tried to contact D11 in more than 2 months...nearing three. I haven't heard from him.
Let those nice moments you all have shared as a family really, really soak in and let the positives fill you up.
And, I've been doing this and it really helps!...when you feel down or discouraged or overwhelmed with negatives/fear...say your name as loud as you can inside your head. PUFF out your chest as you do and scream it inside. You fill yourself up and it feels so awesome.
You will be ok, no matter what.
I love popcorn heather! Lol. Ok I'll make some for the picnic.
In my heart I agree about that though. It's more watching and observing it seems. While enjoying the positives and really working on LIVING the changes I have made in my life.
I think I am wonderng how to navigate this while moving forward. I think I am in a place I am unsure of? Didn't expect to be in? Scared..?
busting,
Your h is slowly waking up and he's on the right track. Take things slowly and even if you opt to have him move back home and he sleeps in a separate bedroom...that is a start. Many of them move home and sleep in another room, etc., until they feel more comfortable being in a relationship once again w/the spouse.
Reconnection takes a lot of time and patience. Things will be different because both of you are different now. Expectations will have be lowered on your part and do not expect him to be the way he was before. Both of you will be starting out fresh and learning how to begin anew. Patience, patience and more patience.
It's reasonable to be scared of the unknown...but if things work out and you both strive to make this a new marriage, I think your marriage could be even better than before...but you have to keep your expectations at zero and learn to follow his lead and dig for patience.
Hang in there!
Thanks Job! I will hang in as much as I can, day to day. I think more than anything I am afraid of me...if that makes sense.
I haven't had an opportunity to 'practice' the new me in this type of relationship.. ( if that's what it is). I am the ' new' me with my other relationships to the point that it seems second nature.
Hmmmm.
I will follow his lead. And keep being me. I am trying to be very honest with him when an opportunity arises. In part of our 'talks' yesterday I did say that at times it's felt like emotional abuse.
I know he is trying in his actions and behaviors. I see it. For example, tomorrow the whole family is traveling to Berlin for a few days. We are driving. While packing we said me, him and the kids will all share one suitcase to save space.
I know this seems trivial, but little things like this that connect him to the family, have been happening. They were not happening in the past.
These small things really fascinate me... What is he thinking? What is driving him?
I am also having some difficulty hearing about his life. Things he has done, places he has gone. He is not throwing it in my face. Just things that come up in conversation with the family like ' when I was in...'
In the back of my head, I go straight to ' oh and of course OW was with him'.
I know I need to let it go.
busting,
I know it's difficult, but if he's talking about where he's been, just listen and acknowledge him when he's speaking. Now, if the ow comes, up you can politely change the subject because you don't want to hear about her.
I do think your h is slowly reconnecting and it's going to take some time for him to feel comfortable around you full time. He's still fragile and yes, he's going to talk about what he's done because he's at that point where he wants to be more open w/you.
Continue to be yourself and honesty is really the best policy.
Enjoy your time in Berlin.
I agree with folks above in the way of
"What do you want? What does your life look like?".
Can you accept where your Husband is in his journey? Can you be patient? Can you be on this rollercoaster and still portray the best Busting?
These are serious questions you need to ask yourself.. and darlin.. it's completely okay if your answer is No.
I find that we tend to get frustrated with our partners for not meeting our expectations when in actuality - they have never given us a reason to believe that they would.
Instead we need to accept our reality and if it is something that we cannot or do not want to handle or it is something that defies our growth and who we are as new people - it is up to us to change the situation.
So your husband has stated that he still wants to talk to OW. That he wants to move in but not be romantic.
How do YOU want to respond?
((( )))
Busting, it is great to hear from you! I was wondering what was going on with you. Somehow I knew that you would come back with the positive update that things are moving in the right direction. I agree with Job, it looks like he is slowly reconnecting. He must be one of these people who have very difficult time to admit their mistakes. He just doesn’t know how to proceed.
I also expected you to react the way you reacted to this development. I probably would be the same way, angry and scarred at the same time. I know you probably want him to give you yes and no answers to everything, but he hasn’t figured out where he is at this time. I think there is a strong pull for him to rejoin the family, but there must also be enormous amount of gilt. I’m curious what that text from OW was about. If he said that the affair is over and they are not friends, what kind of business does he still have with her? Is she pursuing him? Does he keep occasional communication to help him not to feel too guilty on both ends? It is like he justifies for himself that the affair was not that big of a deal.
Anyway, I’m just so happy for you. The things are progressing! I know there are difficult times ahead, but I also know that you will figure it out.
Busting, was he living with her?
I love you all so very much.
Val- (((())))) I do want to give this a chance. My family barely got started before this all happened, and for many dark nights and days, it was my kids that kept me going forward and nurturing my understanding, belief and faith in this stance. I would not give up a chance to bring my family back together.
As for his statements about wanting to contact the OW and not being romantic with me. After letting some of this settle, it seems that these statements may be more of the teenage defiance of MLC. I say that not with naivety, false hope or expectations. His affair ended two weeks ago, It's all very raw and very new and he is still not out of the tunnel completely. I am sure he does not want to be told what to do, especially by me, and as for separate bedrooms, again I perceive this as him still not being able to say that maybe he made a mistake.i don't know why there is contact. Maybe she is still pursuing. Maybe, as Bright said, he is trying to play down the significance of the affair, or maybe this is not the true end of it. Time will tell.
I am not saying that everything will fall into place. I am not at a place of trust ( and neither is he) and I am alert and cautious. Optimistically cautious perhaps. I know that him telling me the affair is over is a big step for him to perhaps start the building of trust. I do feel it's still early days and that right now the last thing he wants to do is look as if he has given up his independence or rather, that he will be controlled. Defiant teenager.
I think I can do this. At least I know I am going to give it my best and most sincere and humble attempt.
Bright thank you so much!! ((((((()))))))) I feel very connected to you..I always have. Let's continue to watch how this unfolds. I am checking expectations and plan to focus on my life as it is still. Staying in the present and being mindful.
Job thank you for your advice on listening politely. I remember that. And will remember that this takes patience and more time.
Heather - yes he was. As for what I know ( I never spoke to him about his R) they stopped living together last summer. It was always a bumpy R.
I need to still let go. Let go from the 'who is he talking to', the ' what does this mean' and the 'what is he thinking now'.
PLEASE be careful, Busting, and don't let this man back in until he's ready to be fully transparent with you. You've worked WAY too hard to get here, and a little more time (spent sticking to your guns) isn't going to kill you.
Mamabear.
Starsky
Thank you Starsky. ((((((((((())))))))))And thank you for your supportive words. I have worked hard and am not willing to give that up . I will heed your words of caution. Where I am right now, I am not willing to have anything but full transparency in my life. It's taken a long time to get here and I won't sacrifice authenticity in my life or for my children or family.
((((())))))
We haven't spoken really again but said we would. In the meantime he just told me that he isn't going to change his mind ( about moving back with his family) but there are ' a lot of things we need to talk and agree about first'. My response was ' ok, just remember that this is going to take time and patience for us both and for us to be comfortable. Be patient with yourself and and love yourself'
He said he understood.
Busting,
I think was a really kind and loving response. Honest, detached and loving...:-)
I think you are a remarkable person.
Please make sure that your are fully appreciated. We are nobody's punching bag, however much we love our spouse and family.
Bea thank you! That really touched me. :-)
And Heather thank you for yours too... You made me smile.
A little tidbit - I found a text from him today asking me ' be honest, have you been playing with my phone?'
Me: no not at all. How come?
Him: my phones been played with, messages deleted, etc
Me: no, I wouldn't do that. I honestly respect your privacy and want to build real trust. Thank you for asking me though and not assuming. I am sorry that happened.
Now, he seems pretty grumpy. Oh well.
I was thinking about you today, so I thought I would stop by to say hello. I'm sending you love and strength as you continue finding your path :-) If you read my book, let me know how you liked it, okay?
XOXO
Busting, it looks like you passed your first test with the flying colors! Whatever it was with his phone, you gave him a perfect answer. I’m sure there was lots of "stuff" going on in his head while he was thinking that it was you who messed with his phone. This will be one of the most sensitive subjects, the trust. He is probably thinking that there is no way to overcome the lost trust issue and you always will be suspecting him in something, and this what probably made him grumpy. You proved that this is not the case.
Tori, what a surprise! Glad to “see” you!
Busting, just catching up! it will be an interesting follow to say the least!
hugs!
Hi all :-)
Great to hear from you. Tori it's been so long! I hope you are well. Can you message me the name of your book? I really want to read it.
Not much to report except utter confusion.
H wavers between being nice and even attentive to acting with disdain and annoyance towards me. He is quick with anger and within the same day can go from kindness to dismissivness.
What is this?
I KnOW he is confused. He says confusing things. He said he didn't even remember telling me the affair was over....? ( it is). We have had a few conversations and they seem to be constructive. He still is thinking he said about how he envisions moving back home ... I don't even know what that means.
He also holds back so much from me. His wall goes up and done. Sometimes he talks and sometimes he says ' I don't want to tell you how I feel or what I think'. Sometimes there is still some smugness. He was more engaged with me two weeks ago than last week.
We have a big wedding coming up in two days that we have known about for awhile and he is wavering about coming with me or not. I think this is making him distance himself from me because he knows I want him to come with me ( he said that) and he also said he is not 'there' yet.
Maybe that is the root of this recent turbulence....I know he is already confused and full of emotion.
Oh sheesh. Is this the part where I am told that patience is needed? Or am I the one going insane?
Hi I strongly recommend that you re-read TMAK on reconnection - googling it is an easy way to find it. It is written by Job. You may also finds Hearts Blessing good on this stage.
And remember that many here would regard you as fortunate to have this chance, hard as it is. You are a courageous person and will manage.
Hi Bea- I am so utterly grateful for this chance. I have been praying and praying and thanking God for this chance to reunite my family and I will not let it go. I will remain humble.
Thank you for the suggestion to reread TMAK and HB. I think it may help too. I not sure how to navigate this right now. Thank you Bea. You are very encouraging. I don't feel courageous rather, utterly scared. X
Sounds to me like someone isn't ready yet, Busting. That's ok -- just play it cool. He's back into the "confused" stage, so that's a good sign. PROTECT YOUR HEART!!!
Starsky
I'm doing my best Starsky to protect my heart. I think I need to really be cool as you said. I admit I was very eager to enter the talks with him as he stated he wanted to do, however he clearly is not ready. My eagerness may have pushed him back and may have disillusioned my stance.
I have been rereadig HB and TMAK as per bea's suggestion and it has helped. Slowed my mind down. I can ' see' better. He is confused and not yet in Acceptance I think. I believe from his behaviours and words he is is reconnecting at a very slow pace. Somewhere between withdrawal and Acceptance. He is so confused.
It's a very awkward situation. We spent almost all year separated and this summer we are together as a family ( with his brothers' family and sister's family) for almost a month. Living together, etc. Seeing him everyday and living together is awkward for me too.
I'll stay my course, my stand, my work and my faith. Keep protecting my heart too. X thanks Starsky x
Any time. You deserve this to turn out RIGHT.
I have to remember that H is a different person too. His journey has changed him in ways I have yet to encounter.
I need to not push him. I need to have faith.
Keep my big girl pants on as is said.
I am wishing that he would come to this wedding with me. I know it's nothing in the greater scheme of things. I was just hoping. It's ok. Will have fun with my friends in celebrating their daughters marriage.
Let it go. Be mindful. And live in the moment.
Just hold the higher bar (standard), Busting. He will either rise to it or he won't, but don't settle for the lower bar.
Our God has very high standards for marriage; my prayer is that your husband rises to the challenge and meets yours.
Starsky
Thank you Starsky for your prayer. That touched my soul.
Just sorting through some of my feelings:
I guess I had thought this would move faster. His realisation would come quickly and the alien in him would be gone forever. I long to see those empty eyes gone for good. I hoped he would show his want for me immediately. Like waking to get to know me again NOW.
I realise this is all not possible - it's still his timeline- still his show. I am last in line and that's it. Must be patient.
busting,
It takes quite a while for the reconnection to take place. They don't magically wake up one day and return home and normal. Just as they gradually went into MLC, they will gradually start to wake up. As they begin to wake up, they are very fragile and will need to "feel" their way along w/reconnecting. When they return home, it usually takes 18-24 months before they finally, and I do mean finally, settle down and continue on w/life as a mature family member. Now, I will caution you on this, sometimes they return normal and then there are times that they will keep some of the traits they exhibited during the crisis. For example, if your h never chewed gum before the crisis and did it during the crisis, he may continue chewing it once home. Hopefully your h will continue to reconnect, come home and take some to settle down into his "new" life.
One thing, you will have a new marriage and you can't return to the old one. Both of you will be different and that means you both will be learning about each other again. Don't revert back to the old habits and expectations.
Give him plenty of time and space to wake up. Keep your expectations low or none at all and dig deeper for patience. It's going to take some time and this is truly the hardest part for the spouse because you are anxious to get the crisis over w/and yet, you are still on his timeline. Don't rush it or he will run right back up the rabbit hole and it will take even longer for him to come out again. Patience and more patience is what is needed during this reawakening period.
Busting, so pleased to hear that things are changing for you.
Keep to your path. Your focus is on you. Your life is for you and your kids.
You are so right to be living in the now.
Much love, NLW
busting,
I am reading along and praying for you guys too.
I think back to the two times my h came back home- it was too soon, he as not ready emotionally. i hope that he gets there for himself...but in the meantime, I am doing pretty good
Hang in there.
NLW and WBW thank you for your kind and supportive words. I am praying too. I am praying that he is getting ready to really do this and that he doesn't run back into the tunnel out of fear and that I have the good grace and wisdom to help him home.
I wanted to journal and update a bit.
H has continued to be relaxed and 'nice'. Not affectionate and not coming towards me in obvious ways but oh my am I grateful and humble for where we are now.
Last year at this time it was my D's bday and H refused to come- he instead went to visit OW. This year he helped me buy presents, plan the party and was THERE. Touch wood.
We had a few brief talks. I asked him if he will live like a married man.
The abridged version of the conversation is as follows (paraphrased):
H: well I am not going to have any relationships. I don't know about one night stands and I will want to go out and have people over. You used to control me and even question me when I was out with work people.
Me: (I say nothing in response to the one night stand comment) ok - well I see us moving forward from the same place, equal ground in trust and respect. I don't want to control you. I'm sorry if you felt that way. I would only want you in this willingly, not if you feel like you are sacrificing yourself. I would not want you to live a sacrificed life and I know that the commitment needs to be stronger than the fears. We will have fears.
You can do what you want. I am not stopping you. In a marriage though I want to be equal and I want my partner to be proud and happy to be married. Not sacrificed. I believe there are bigger issues to address in the future than you going out.
H: but I'm not moving in to the bedroom with you right away.
Me: that's fine- I am not ready for that either.
H: maybe there is some fear
Me: it's natural. I don't see this as a place for revenge. I want to move forward in trust and forgiveness. Not revenge and control. If you feel you need something else then you need to do that. I believe that if we are both working from the same place then we wouldn't do things to hurt or control each other. We may not yet be ready for that. This will take time.
H: anything can happen
Me: yes I agree. I would have to say though that I don't think either of us should walk on eggshells. I do know however that any kind of outside relationship, one night stand or not, would be a boundary for me. Your feelings matter and you are a priority, and my feelings matter and I am a priority too. I will not want people in my life that hurt me, my kids or my marriage.
H: we will talk more
Me: yes, ok.
I realize that some of this is to provoke me and some is fear and most of it is confusion.
In his actions, he is relaxed and much kinder than he has been in years and years. I had to travel for a few days and he drive me to the airport ( I didn't ask him too). I think his main LL is acts of service and I while I don't think he consciously trying to show me acts of love just yet I think the more he relaxes around me the more himself he gets.
I often wonder what a 'good' and healthy relationship is like. If me and h can actually have one... If I am capable of not smothering the love out of fear. If we can be friends again - if he will actually like me. I have doubted the reality of what we used to have. The past four years have changed so much about me and changed my memories as well. I forgot how much we used to enjoy spending time together. Maybe it was never real... We have both changed so much. The last conversation I had with him also showed me how far ahead of him I am. I am so done with the past and so ready for my next step.
I was pleased with myself for remaining calm. And I realized that this is who I am. It wasn't pretend and it wasn't passive aggressiveness. It felt good. Very good. No matter the outcome. Today my fears are less. Not because of h but because I truly feel free of him and I know I will be great with or without him.
Now, I am remembering that this takes time and is a delicate process. I think I have managed over the past couple of weeks to keep any expectations to almost null.
Remembering that this takes time. And I am last in line.
We had a few brief talks. I asked him if he will live like a married man.
. . .
H: well I am not going to have any relationships. I don't know about one night stands and I will want to go out and have people over. You used to control me and even question me when I was out with work people.
. . . Me: I do know however that any kind of outside relationship, one night stand or not, would be a boundary for me. Your feelings matter and you are a priority, and my feelings matter and I am a priority too. I will not want people in my life that hurt me, my kids or my marriage.
Attagirl, Busting. I'm proud of how you stuck to your boundary, no matter how tempting this new warming of his is.
Don't waver on this.
To be honest, his "one-night-stand" comment shocked me.
Starsky
Thanks Starsky :-) :-)
Lol it was a shocking comment !
I remembered reading job's description on reconnection though and she said that they will say things to provoke you (paraphrasing). So I figured this was one of those things...
I know MLCers are crazy but yeah, right, I'm going to say 'ok honey - go have your one night stand but just be back before 10pm -and be safe!'
He is scared and confused. He wants his family and he he doesn't know yet how except by trying to control the situation. He still does not see that he still has to look within himself - it the simplist and hardest thing to do.
I remembered reading job's description on reconnection though and she said that they will say things to provoke you (paraphrasing). So I figured this was one of those things...
I agree. He was testing you. It was very like an adolescent, a bit defiant and fearful..."I won't be caged again."
He is scared and confused. He wants his family and he he doesn't know yet how except by trying to control the situation. He still does not see that he still has to look within himself - it the simplist and hardest thing to do.
Busting, you have a great handle on where he is at, IMO. I think you handled it well. You validated and set a firm boundary at the same time. I love you, but I WILL NOT put myself, the kids or the marriage in harm's way to compromise for you.
Well done. :-)
I 100% agree ^^^^^^^ with what Heather says! Great job not reacting to the "one night stand" comment! Keep it up, you're doing great!
Hi job
I'm sorry - I missed your comment from the end of July.thank you for your continued wisdom and support :-) I am starting to understand now more the need for more patience. Also I find it tricky balancing between not scaring him off and keeping the light on bright enough for him to keep looking but not too bright too quickly that it hurts his eyes to look.
I have noticed that he has trouble sitting with himself. He still needs activity to keep him busy and not restless. This was something i have seen in H before. I know it's a troubled mind.,I asked him once if he was ok, he said fine and I left it.
I guess I am a little scared that he will give up on himself and the family. It's hard to figure out what makes him 'tick' - what he cares about. So I continue to watch and observe. And hioefully guide when the time is right.
I guess I am a little scared that he will give up on himself and the family. It's hard to figure out what makes him 'tick' - what he cares about. So I continue to watch and observe. And hioefully guide when the time is right.
CAREFUL there, Busting -- it is NOT your job to RESCUE him!
STAND if you wish, yes, but this is "fixing/rescuing" behavior that can have a drowning person pull you under with them!!!
Starsky
Thanks Starsky. Yes- Ok I will bear that in mind. Do I understand you correctly then that I need to be careful not to try and guide him but rather watch and support?
Thanks Starsky. Yes- Ok I will bear that in mind. Do I understand you correctly then that I need to be careful not to try and guide him but rather watch and support?
In my opinion, YES. I come from a family of pleasers and rescuers and co-dependents. Lots of alcoholism. I know what rescuing behavior looks like, and what is healthy and what is not. YOU CANNOT FIX HIM. That is up to God Almighty, working within His divine laws of free will.
"I love you and I forgive you; I hope you figure it out" should be your position.
Good stuff, Starsky!
Busting, I think your light is bright enough, but not too bright to blind him. You are doing fine. It must be a bit stressful to constantly think if you are doing the right thing. Allow yourself to relax and just be. I’m sure this is all that is needed. You are wonderful. I’m sure he sees it too.
Allow yourself to relax and just be. I’m sure this is all that is needed. You are wonderful. I’m sure he sees it too.
Love this. ^^^^^
Excellent- I fully understand what you mean now Starsky - thank you. I suppose that requires me to let go of that urge to try and control --- yes I see this more clearly now. Thank you again SO much ((( Starsky)))
Heather, Matt- thank you for your validation and point of views. It really helps when others 'see' what I see. Especially that very few IRL cannot fathom why I doing what I am doing.
Bright- I needed that reminder to relax and be myself. I need that reminder. I feel hypersensitive to this sometimes trying to navigate. I need to relax more and be myself. And trust in God. And be confident. Thank you bright. You know sometimes when the stinkin Thinkin starts in I think what could he possibly like about me after rejecting me so completely? Those thoughts don't allow me to be myself completely.
Bustingout, your H sounds just like mine: so certain I have nothing on my mind but the desire to control him. Determined to make all of the rules. H has also claimed to be "done" and has filed for divorce.
I like what Starsky said about not letting him back in until he's ready to be fully transparent with you, about holding a higher bar (standard) and not to settle for the lower one.
I love it too shining! Thanks for visiting :-) I've read some of your thread and it seems you and your H had a meaningful talk recently. nitty I like what Starsky said about keeping my standard as well. I have not read your thread yet. I hope you are doing ok in this crazy world. Thanks for coming by :-)
I have a question. Should I bring up the 'one night stand' thing again and tell H it is not an option for me if we are moving back towards each other. Or wait until we talk again and see what he says? My gut tells me to do the latter...
I would wait until you talk again.
I agree, I would wait, if bring it up at all. Unless he brings the subject up again. I’m pretty sure he understands that one night stands are not going to fly if he wants to be with his family.
Agree with the others. Repeating non-negotiable boundaries only WEAKENS them, not strengthens them.
Starsky
I also agree! He probably won't even remember saying it! Leave it alone and deal with it only if it comes up again!
Thank you job, bright, Starsky and Matt! I really appreciate and value your responses and support. I will do just that- leave it alone.
((((((( job, bright, Starsky, Matt)))))))
I have been reflecting on the talks I have had with H as of late ( we had another one four days ago). There has been some clarity and some more confusion.
My reflections based on what he has said and behavior:
He said he was thinking of going on a spiritual/ religious pilgrimage ( contrast to him also saying that thing about one night stands).
His big thing seems to be fear of moving too fast and not ready to be be a couple ( even though I have not mentioned or asked directly or indirectly about a ' couple' status).
He asked again what I meant when I asked if he would live like a married man. I said very bluntly ' having no physical or emotional affairs' he nodded in agreement.
He said he thought I was jumping too far in the future. That I expected him to act like a full on husband right now ( same bedroom, intimacy, etc) I said I was not ready either.
He said the way he understood what I was saying was that I was already in a place he was not. I told him what I meant was that we can't figure anything out, whether we go on a path together or not, unless we are working from the same place on equal footing. And any third parties involved in any capacity will not allow that natural development - wherever it may lead us. He said he understood and said ok.
We have come back to our country and he is staying at the house with us.when we landed I began to feel apprehension and some resentment. Resentment towards H for all the years I travelled alone with the kids and thoughts of the travels he did with ( still seems to be x) OW. I also was apprehensive about coming back to 'the past four years' in this country. I worked through it and realized that no matter what, it wasn't going to be the same. Not just because H, but rather because I am truly in a different and better place emotionally and mentally. I have moved forward from this - and while I still will have hard times, I feel like I have made it through some of the darkest times. I see my light now.
Before we came back, we went and visited my mom for a few days and he came along happily. He took me and my sister out one evening.
Yesterday was my son's bday and he was INVOLVED with the party and with our adult friends that came as well. After the kids slept, me, him, and our pre MLC best friends ( a husband and wife) stayed and we had drinks.
He is still maintaining a sense of his 'independence'. he made plans tonight to see his buddy and only told me when he was ready to leave. So there is no communication or talk of what he is doing. It feels like he needs to keep that sense of being in control, we are not a couple thing. He did say 'busting, I am leaving now and I will see you later'. Progress.
I bought refillable water bottles for the whole family (actually last year I bought just for me and the kids). This year I bought four. And when son asked for water, H said ' here use mine...if it is mine that is...' I said yes, it is.
Son got a phone for his birthday and H gave him a phone chip that was an old work number of H's. I said to H ' will that be ok? What if son gets weird phone calls?' H took this to mean I was talking about (still seems to be x)OW. He got very defensive ( I know what I am doing, etcetera !) and immediately I said, no, wait, you have misunderstood. I meant weird WORK phone calls. He deflated immediately and said , 'oh, ok. It should be fine. Haven't used the number for years'.
It did make me see he is feeling very raw about (still seems to be x) OW talk or implied talk, or potential talk. I take it that this is guilt? Not ready to face it? Etc.
Overall it's the FEELING I have that is different. A big change has occurred and I can feel it in my gut. I am not saying that this trip is over. Not at all. But there has been a release of some sort. I can't explain it. It's calm. I feel less turmoil less haunted by this all.
I am very aware this is a delicate time. If this is going to move forward I am sure there are difficult times ahead.
Xxx
I didn't realize how much time has passed since I last posted. School started three weeks ago and it's just been full on as bother a teacher and a parent! All is good with me and the kids. I waned to let out some thoughts about H.
I am scared. Really and I didn't expect it. I am not afraid of being alone (anymore) I am afraid to trust my H whether we R or not.
I have adapted the upbeat and cheery role prescribed from the start so well that it has become a part of me especially with H. I can stop borrowing trouble from the future, I am a whiz at making the scared little girl inside be quiet and I can strap on my big girl pants in a flash. I know how and I have used these tools so consistently it is effortless now.
Yet- I feel like I am in a whole new place now. H travelled back to Dubai for work 2.5 weeks ago. We speak frequently on the phone and have exchanged so light hearted and fun texts. Nothing intimate nothing romantic nothing reassuring. His guard is still up. However - He tells me to take care when we hang up. (Wow it's so nice to hear that) and one time before I realized what I said, (i said we miss you so much!) he said 'I do too'. That one had me on cloud nine for awhile. He also asks how I am- and sometimes we share our days - not erg a lot of detail, but shared.
So- I stay positive and hopeful. I sometimes force myself to trust him even when I don't quite yet. I wonder if he is really up for this I wonder if I will ever feel safe with him- or anyone else for that matter. I wonder if he will really ever care about what happened. I wonder when my feelings will matter to him- if ever. Lots of what ifs.
I know that's all in a future that may or may not exist. I don't know what's meant to be. So I comfort myself in knowing that I don't have to be scared because I won't settle for anything less than being appreciated, respected, cared for and loved. I won't select for anything less than an authentic relationship built in trust.
I also try and be honest with him without pushing him away. I am pretty sure he thinks my upbeat and cheery perspective is because I think me and him are 'fixed'. I made it clear to him that this is just who I am - I am not living in the future nor do I think we are R am all is well.
Anyway- I realize he doesn't really know me anymore. Maybe that will change one day who knows.
So that's all for now. He should be back in two more weeks. I have a party to go to tonight so I am gonna think about what to wear ..! Lol
Xxx
busting,
I'm glad you came back and posted an update. How do the kids like school thus far? Plenty of homework?
Busting, what you are feeling right now about trusting your h is very normal. He's got to earn your trust and the only way to do that is to be open and honest about what he's doing w/his life (all aspects) and it sounds like he's not completely there yet.
From what you posted, he's still not fully baked and he's got a ways to go, but things are progressing slowly, but surely. Dig deeper for patience and allow him to continue to come to you. I know you want him back in your life as your h, but he's not there yet. Dig deeper for patience and continue to think positive.
I think you are doing well. Keep the focus on you and your children. Enjoy your party this evening.
Thank you Job for your post. I love to read your wise and comforting words. Yes I agree he is not fully baked- I guess there is still hope that he will 'get there faster' although I know deep down, it has to run it's course. Sometimes I wonder if at the end of it all he just won't make it. I still know I iwll be in a better place and I also know that I will be able to move on from him with a light heart knowing I have done everything I can, and a compassionate heart for him.
Well- school is really full on! Lol homework is aplenty, as are after school activities. But the kids are happy and we all love the school very much.
Thank you for asking and checking in on us job :-). I hope all is well and bright in your world xxx
I am scared. Really and I didn't expect it. I am not afraid of being alone (anymore) I am afraid to trust my H whether we R or not.
keep that fear as your shield, I don't think their is anything wrong with that.
When he proves to you through consistant action that it is unfounded then I think you may be able to drop your shield.
Until then, keep it raised.
My .02
Agree with Cadet and job. You've articulated to your husband your boundaries well and lovingly, and you've even articulated to US in your latest post what the key issues are.
I think they're all very accurate, and very healthy. Stay the course, and let him continue to have the ball in his court. Only you will know when you can't wait along longer, or if this is all going too slow for you. Or maybe God sends someone else along someday, who knows. For now you're not there, and that's all that matters -- TODAY.
Starsky
((((((Cadet and Starsky)))))))))) you both keep me so motivated and upbeat. Your words are so meaningful to me. I have not really had a positive male presence in my life for quite sometime and the both of you and your mentoring and guidance over the years has been one of the key reasons to me being where I am today. Words cannot express my gratitude to you both. Xxx
Awwwwwww, shucks.
You're easy to help, busting. Your combination of faith, determination, and soft-and-yet-tough love is impressive and you listen to all sides and you make your decisions and you live with them.
It's inspiring.
Starsky
Awwwwwww, shucks.
You're easy to help, busting. Your combination of faith, determination, and soft-and-yet-tough love is impressive and you listen to all sides and you make your decisions and you live with them.
It's inspiring.
Starsky
Ahhhhh yea - what he said ^^^^^^^.
And you know how to find me if you really need something.
And we could even find Starsky if we really needed to also.
And we could even find Starsky if we really needed to also.
No way. I'm like Col. Flagg, on M*A*S*H. Gone like the wind.
"M*A*S*H: The Abduction of Margaret Houlihan (#5.6)" (1976)
Colonel Flagg: I have no home. I am the wind.
Hawkeye: [to BJ] I told you he was the wind. You said he was the stars.
B.J.: No, I said he was the moon.
Busting, thanks for stopping by my thread. I think the things keep progressing in your sitch, slowly, but I have a good feeling about it.
I like what Starsky posted:
Stay the course, and let him continue to have the ball in his court. Only you will know when you can't wait along longer, or if this is all going too slow for you. Or maybe God sends someone else along someday, who knows. For now you're not there, and that's all that matters -- TODAY.
I could use it too .
Hi everyone. It's been a long time since I posted. I have som updates about H. Me, myself I am good overall. I feel good in general.
With H I feel so anxious. I don't like it. I feel like I am panicking and a side of me I don't like comes out. I wonder if I can really do this.
We had some arguments and also some great times. He has been coming to this country more often, staying at the house (guest bedroom) and staying longer.
About a month ago he said some things that were basically him trying to maintain control but to me seemed more of someone scared of this new situation between us. Like he doesn't see us as a couple rather just co parents living together. Also that he thinks I have expectations that we will be getting back together, while he does not.
That ended in a fight and us agreeing to just let things be. No one knows the future and we cannot read each other's minds. We are both in new territory and are both navigating it for the first time.
Over the past 4 weeks he then has been very inconsiderate of my feelings and very considerate at the same time. He has apologised and even tried to be cute (last week he was arriving to the country and after apologising for being inconsiderate texted :' I hope you can be bribed because I am brining you a new phone'. )
So I have been confused. And more importantly I think I realise that I need to stay on my side of the fence still, be warm and welcoming, but not get caught up in any of his behavioural issues or my fears of the future.
I don't like feeling vulnerable again.
I am so grateful for this opportunity. I can't believe sometimes that it's real. I know my family is lucky... (Thank you God)
Yet I am scared and I didn't think I would be. I felt more stable more confident before this 'coming together ' started. I feel therefore I am always 'serious'. Maybe afraid to just 'be'. Afraid that I will always be the person that annoys him- that he is just putting up with (that's how he made me feel before he left). Someone that he can just leave again.
H knows some of these things. We have had some conversations - and I try and be honest with my feelings about my fears. Especially if he only looks at me as a 'co parent'. What kind of life is that? Is it him just trying to protect himself in these fragile days? Or will I never be a 'woman' to him again?
I understand that he must be having a lot of conflicting and confusing feelings too. How does he come across so assured of himself and in control? Or is that me reverting to looking at him with my fear?
Sometimes it feels like I just really don't matter. No sob story. Really. There has been no apology, no 'I missed you', no reassurances. So that tells me he is not ready. And then I look at his actions and it seems different to his words. We speak well, we spend time together alone (nothing intimate) and as a family. We talk about the future together as a family.
So it seems I am reiterating a lot what I posted before. About fear. And Cadet and Starsky both gave me perfect advice about consistent action and focusing on today.
I need to be consistent in my actions too and not let my fears turn me into an erratic person. So I need to maybe stop thinking about these fears and focus on TODAY.
Focus on today.
Will keep reminding myself.
Keep walking on down your path, Busting, and stop trying to figure out if your walkaway husband is still following you, or if the WAY that he's following you is up to snuff.
Every time he comes near you, you get rattled and lose your mojo from my observation. Just keep WALKIN' -- he'll either catch up and move Heaven and Earth to give you what you want and need, or he won't.
Starsky
Yes you are right Starsky! I DO get rattled. And my mojo falls to the wayside. Ok I'll keep wakin, focus on today. And let things be as they are meant.
((((((((((((((((((((((((am not just sending you a hug -it's a busting bear hug special)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Busting,
I am so glad to read your recent updates and see that you are doing well.
I am cheering for you, as always!
((((((((busting)))))))))
Hey Busting,
Me too, cheering for you just like k_g & always reading along to see how you are going.
This is a long, long process. You can do this; have confidence in yourself.
I need to be consistent in my actions too and not let my fears turn me into an erratic person. So I need to maybe stop thinking about these fears and focus on TODAY.
Yes.
I was going to ask how you are doing, but it seems like your doing great.
For me, this time that you are going through was the hardest part. It was a play it by ear or touch...do I proceed gently or do I pull out a hammer?
And my simple advice to you and something I still use to this day...whenever our arguments get heated, I envision in my mind two paths. One leads angrily and gleefully off a cliff surrounded by self inflicted flames, where I enjoy the ride down. The other is the safer path.
I'd wish you luck...but I don't believe in it and, really? You don't need it.
KG, NLW and J3B!!!!(((((()))))))) I am so happy to 'see you' all. Thank you thank you for coming by. I've missed you all very much.how are you doing? ???
Thank you for your words of support and encouragement. I do feel at a loss these days of what is exactly going on with H. Are we coming together? Are we just co parents? Will be open up? Become vulnerable? Can I trust him? Will we move forward together? And you can imagine the questions that continue .....
I really am just living my life - and enjoying it. I want to keep going yet I feel like I have been put in another type of limbo. If this is a chance I want to do everything I can to keep it possible but I get frustrated not knowing how far I can go with h? Do I take the first steps and open up and make myself vulnerable? Actually I don't feel ready to do that. I guess this part as J3b said is really hard. Before I knew where I stood. I knew what I was doing on my own. Now I don't know if I am on my own anymore or not.
Is this all normal at this point? i just wonder if I need some new tools. I still feel this is all me. Navigating, deciding, and the future of my family depends on it.
Hard stuff. One day at a time.
Why don't you raise the bar of what you expect of him, and see if he responds to it?
Either he is capable of more or he's not. Right now, he can surely sense that his "low bar" threshold of behavior is enough to keep you circling in his life, no?
Starsky
Hi Starsky! Well I think I did that before reading your suggestion. Awhile back - when this whole 'coming together' was starting, H kept taking about expectations. I would respond consistently saying I did not have any, basically, just let things develop as they may. He would respond by saying that THAT in itself was an expectation ... We went back and forth on this and finally he had said what he meant was that HE actually didn't have any expectations. What he meant ( and stated much to my surprise) was that if I wanted to see other men he was fine with that - see.. No expectations.
Needless to say I was very upset about this ( again- this was all about a month or so ago) and stayed by boundaries and my values on that. We came to the conclusion that if we want to give this a go then we should just let things be. He also agreed to no extra marital activities.
Anyways as weeks went by and , as I have posted, things seemed to be going smoothly. The comment he made though weighed more heavily on my mind and heart than I expected it would ( despite telling myself that it was a comment made in fear, trying to control, etc ). I felt un valued, unworthy.
Well today I finally brought it up with him. I very calmly told him what I felt, and he told me to please retract the comment that he made - he didn't mean it and he of course would not want me seeing or sleeping with other men. He does not want that. Didn't know why he said that.
So that kind of made me feel something positive. Is that raising the bar a bit?
Busting are you piercing? Is he back willing to work on your marriage?
I don't know if I would call it piecing. He has said he wants to come back. He wants to be a part of this family again. We talk about moving back into together permanently ( h left this country two years ago and now he comes back and forth). We are planning the holidays together and we have travelled as a family. We have been invited out together and we have invited people over to the house together. We have gone to a movie alone and we spend some evenings together watching TV.
The relationship is for the most part light and easy. He is 'present' . He wants to be here. He talks with me about work.
We haven't had a lot of convo about us except what I have mentioned and part of that convo has included me stating that he has a lot of work to do on himself to figure his stuff out. Or else he will just bolt again. I am pretty certain I have stated my boundaries succinctly and consistenly and they are heard and respected. We are building trust.
He is slow. I see someone scared and finding his way. He has a lot of trust issues. It's like he expects me to be mad and I'm simply not. I think this adds to his guilt and he has not yet dealt with that- at least openly with me.
But to answer your question I have stayed away from calling it piecing. I have understood that piecing comes later if at all. He has not said he is working on the marriage per we yet his actions show he is working on coming back. I see the final step to piecing as not yet taken just yet.
Okie Dokie Busting.
When he really commits and it really is piercing then come the hard boundaries and conversations you're not supposed to have right now. : )
And right now? Anything I can do differently ? sometimes I wonder and then I remeber I can decide whatever future I want for myself. He might not know what he wants but I do. I need to remeber that. I suppose time will give me any answers I seek.
I suppose time will give me any answers I seek.
OR...
Maybe you already have the answers that you seek, and you have just been asking the wrong questions....
Okie Dokie Busting.
When he really commits and it really is piercing then come the hard boundaries and conversations you're not supposed to have right now. : )
I agree with this. ^^^ My "raise the bar" comment is me wondering if there's some way Busting can incrementally turn up the heat just a notch here? See if he'll respond and take a next step?
It seems to me if she stays at status quo, so will squirrelish H.
Also sometimes I remeber how far I have come. And to a certain extent him as well. From the darkest days of this... To this. It seems incredible at times. As an observer it fascinates me sometimes. You told me this was long term. Oh boy is it.
And right now? Anything I can do differently ? sometimes I wonder and then I remeber I can decide whatever future I want for myself. He might not know what he wants but I do.
And is he -- in his
CURRENT state -- getting you closer to that future you want for yourself, or is he holding you back from it?
Hi Mach!
I don't know if I am following you but when I read your post it made me think that h will do nothing unless i do something first . Am I getting you?
I like that thought Starsky. i don't know what to do though
so far ..yes. In his current state he is getting me closer to the life I want with my family. A life I want with my partner....? Ideally him..? incant say yes or no on it yet.
You are all very respected and valued men to me. Please tell me honestly, do you all think I can do something different??
What if instead of allowing him to just "hang out" with you, with no strings attached, you told him you at least expected to be asked out on a proper date?
Even if you're supposedly "not working on the marriage," and even if he's not willing to "make any commitments" right now, it still seems to me like you're allowing him to have all of the benefits of a date with you (smart, beautiful female companionship, conversation, devotion, a meal? what else?) without so much as even having to ASK YOU OUT.
My wife and I beginning to "date each other" was the turning point of our sitch, really. Just wondering what would happen if you did something like this to crank it up a notch, how he might respond?
Starsky
so far ..yes. In his current state he is getting me closer to the life I want with my family. A life I want with my partner....? Ideally him..? incant say yes or no on it yet.
I dunno, not so sure about this. Whenever I stop in to check on you, I see almost "two Bustings." One is a very self-confident, attractive, I'm-moving-on type of woman. The other drops what she's doing to accept the companionship and friendship of her walkaway husband and tries not to spook him (while holding firm to your core boundaries).
I think all he has to do is show up and hang out with you, and it's all no-questions-asked, glad-to-have-ya.
Am I wrong?
Hmmmm.... I like that idea ... I hadn't thought about it before. I have been in the mindset of not pushing or scaring away... Letting him lead. Granted he hasn't led anywhere really ....
He is set to return in another two weeks. I think I might give that a try.
Do you think any of his behaviors are positive though even if not yet followed up with the wording? I thought they were...? Again when looking at the bigger picture. I understand that he is getting the benefit of me right now ( and thanks for the flattering comments!!! :-) ) ... Is that not however also an indication of him being more comfortable being back home and being around me?
I guess you are not wrong when you put it like that. Hmmm
I do welcome him when he comes back to the country and the time he is here is pleasant and even fun.i haven't felt like I was compromising myself for him...I thought I needed to still be more patient. That with my own life that I have made and the place I am in now, I feel strong enough to do that. But I don't want it to become the status quo nor do I expect it to be. I still see this as a fluid and moving state...one that hopefully moves forward together.
I feel like I am offering him a genuine and no expectations place to heal and figure stuff out with his family. I Certainly do not want to be taken for granted.
I really thought this would take time...do you think he should be moving closer to me much quicker?
One is a very self-confident, attractive, I'm-moving-on type of woman.
The other drops what she's doing to accept the companionship and friendship of her walkaway husband and tries not to spook him (while holding firm to your core boundaries).
What Starsky said is what I meant...(cept I wanted YOU to come up with it) : )
Option "A" is about you already having the answers....
Option "B" is about you seeking the answers....
See the difference ???
Should you be doing something differently?
I don't know should you?
You, yourself have gotten you this far. You're going to know when you need to make a change.
Right now he is seeing the accommodating "Busting" and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are ok with it.
When/if you are not ok with it?
I figure you make a change.
This is your situation. It's tactical for you, on the ground right in front of you. Trust your instincts they have gotten you this far.
Yes now I DO see the difference :-)
I already have my answers in myself. For myself. I don't need to seek anything outside of that right now
Hmmmm.... I like that idea ... I hadn't thought about it before. I have been in the mindset of not pushing or scaring away... Letting him lead. Granted he hasn't led anywhere really ....
He is set to return in another two weeks. I think I might give that a try.
Do you think any of his behaviors are positive though even if not yet followed up with the wording? I thought they were...? Again when looking at the bigger picture. I understand that he is getting the benefit of me right now ( and thanks for the flattering comments!!! :-) ) ... Is that not however also an indication of him being more comfortable being back home and being around me?
Oh, I have no DOUBT he's "comfortable." I'm not sure at this slow pace of his that "comfortable" is what you're shooting for though.
Us men are simple, path-of-least-resistance creatures. I've just found that often times we will either rise to the occasion or we will do just enough to get by, depending on what is expected of us. Your husband seems that way to me, and it just seems to me that -- as my dear mother would say -- "If the sample is ample . . . "
Should you be doing something differently?
I don't know should you?
You, yourself have gotten you this far. You're going to know when you need to make a change.
Right now he is seeing the accommodating "Busting" and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are ok with it.
When/if you are not ok with it?
I figure you make a change.
This is your situation. It's tactical for you, on the ground right in front of you. Trust your instincts they have gotten you this far.
.
Honestly? I think I need to sit down with myself and have an authentic conversation with me. Maybe I am putting too much into him and his needs at this time and not thinking of taking care of mine. I say he is scared but maybe I am scared of trying to raise the bar and being rejected. And I shouldn't be.
I think the conversation I had with him today may be a good starting point. If he IS committed to the family and does not want me to be with other men and has agreed that he will not engage in affairs of any sort, then what does that mean about us as a married couple? Where do we go from there?
Yes, I see how it might be time to raise this higher and start acknowledging my needs and wants well.
Comfortable is not where I want to be.
H is slow. He will take the path of least resistance if I allow it.
He might not mean it but I am devaluing myself if I do allow it.
Even though I love him, I love me too. Not one of us should compromise who we are or what we want.
I am not being authentic if I do not communicate with h and only continue to tow the line.
Jack, Mach, Starsky ..... Like the three musketeers... All for one and one for all.....Thank you ... I wish I could have a drink with you all
I'll come back later with updates. (((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))
I say he is scared but maybe I am scared of trying to raise the bar and being rejected. And I shouldn't be.
You were already rejected at BD.
Whats the worst that can happen?
He runs away again?
If that happens then things are not any different really.
Yeah...maybe I'm not so ok with it anymore...I have been frustrated with the pace.
It's like you guys could see it ....