Wow. I must be writing too much because my last thread is locked already."If I only had a brain..."
------------- I would figure out how to post the old ones here!
"22 Years: He's Filed, Need Advice on Boundaries" (1 & 2)
"Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick"
"Speak Softly" The MLC Version -----------------------------------
----GGG(GoatGal, GumbyGoatGal)
Now known as "
Triple G" because I am a "Triple Threat!"
Or maybe "
Triple G, PhD" ???? Kinda catchy!
Specializing in the bizarre behavior of the male MLC amoeba.
(I thought of "Dr. G" but she's a forensic pathologist on TV. So that's taken.
)
Hey GGG - just posted a reply to you but have no idea where it goes to, as in what thread, but assume it gets to you somehow!!!!!!
You are an inspiration..........
MLC is where its at now - I am going to stay here for a while. We have an expression here 'GUBU' used originally in relation to rather strange political situation, stands for 'Gross, Unique, Bizarre, Unprecented' - MLC behaviour is truely 'GUBU' in my H's case and I expect in yours too............
GGG,
I like your new thread title as the Amoeba Whisperer...very original!
Hey, sonas! So glad to hear from you!
Yes. GUBU is perfect.
In fact, it might be a great name for my little "pet".
Someone nicknamed their H "Pinhead" (PH), so now mine will be "GUBU the Amoeba" when I'm feeling particularly prickly.
How goes it in sonas-land?
---GGG
GG,
Just had to post after reading about your h's antics. My h always tweets about what a great boyfriend he is and I always think...."how great of a boyfriend can you be with a wife?":)
Stay dark and avoid the insanity.
GGG,
Saw this great snippet from a spiritual site and thought of you (and all LBS of MLCers too!).
There is a profound difference between pity and compassion and your obligation extends to compassion, which requires detachment and acceptance, but not the energy of pity, which happens when you feel responsibility for others’ path, you believe that you have an obligation to ensure their happiness, or you feel responsible for creating outcomes you believe they cannot create for themselves.
Wow. Makes so much damned sense, doesn't it?
Dearest Wonka, Yes, it does make sense. ^^^
I am one of those people who finds it difficult to turn my back on anyone in need.
However--I have only ever done that at the expense of myself when my mother went into a serious depression and was suicidal. I did everything I could to keep her safe, get her treatment, and drag her to appointments myself. I am glad I did it.
She's had many great years and at 87, she's still kicking ass and taking names.
She would have been dead.
Also, she was in no frame of mind to make decisions for herself. She was out of her mind... it was bad.
It was very hard on me, but I wouldn't change a thing.
So I think you have to help people who need your help, but it's important to know where to draw the line.
Now with my sitch with GUBU the Amoeba, my mother knows I can't be there for her on the level that I have been.
I felt guilty about that at first, but I don't any longer.
I have two siblings who could step up, but they have chosen not to.
That's on them.
But as for GUBU, I don't feel responsible for him.
He's making some terrible mistakes and is his judgement is impaired.
He will have to live with those mistakes.
My job is only to limit the damage TO ME and my "kids".
Period.
I never thought I caused this, although some have suggested that I must own 50% of his cheating/MLC situation.
I have to disagree. I have my own stuff, sure. But he made his choices. Those are 100% on him.
All I can do is influence GUBU with positive reinforcement and the occasional Truth Dart.
Meanwhile, it's busy in this laboratory... his experiment is just one of many.
(I've heard Amoebas will die if they dry out. Do you think this is true?
)
---GGG
I never thought I caused this, although some have suggested that I must own 50% of his cheating/MLC situation.
GGG, Not a damm thing you coulda done. You coulda been the vision of perfection in practically every way and he still woulda gone off the deep end of the pool without a floatie.
Personally, I think an affair is a form of emotional abuse and misguided anger/control sent from one spouse to the other.
There are always things both people can do better in a marriage, but
NOTHING that causes someone to dive into an MLC. The crisis would happen in a marriage or out. Some single people experience MLC. The beginnings of his MLC started when he was a child or teen...long before you walked down the aisle. Period.
Someday there will be a test. MLC-ers will pee on a stick and if it turns blue, they will be sent to live in Flint, Michigan...the armpit of the world.
Don't blame yourself.
I never thought I caused this, although some have suggested that I must own 50% of his cheating/MLC situation.
Absolutely not. It is right up there with the idiotic notion that the cheated on spouse has somehow caused the adultery.
No, as Frank Pittman points out, the person cheating is the one with problems.
^^ Bea and Heather. WTF was that all about, GGG? No one is responsible for the choices another person makes/does. How can one say that you are partly responsible for the cheating part done by another person? 'Splain that! Even the MLC part. Oh my...that's like saying you are 50% responsible for stealing oxygen from your other fellow humans. Huh?
Wow, wonka! I love that quote defining the difference between compassion and pity. What a perspective-giver that is!
Separately, isn't it true that in "some" cases, infidelity is brought on because the cheater wasn't getting what he/she needed so they look for it elsewhere? I'm not saying it's 50% the cheated ons fault at all but there's something missing, no? Except of course in the ever crazy world of MLC, where the sky is purple.
Wonka, et al--I agree!I have heard from others "with wisdom" that every marriage is a partnership and I need to own my part its breakdown.
(Not on this site, although the first responder to my first post ever intimated that I needed to see how I contributed. Frankly, that upset me at the time.)
It's "common knowledge" that when men are happy at home, they don't cheat, right?
WRONG!!!
------------------------------------
I always said his choices had nothing to do with me.
Was I perfect? Nope.
But he could have handled it any number of ways that might have been constructive if he really had issues with me in the M.
His porn use? That's because I'm frigid/uptight. (No, and not hardly.)
His OW? Because I didn't do enough to please him at home. (See sex, above.)
His filing for divorce? As I think I've said, the rumor in my town is that I am a big slut and cheated on him all over the place. Yup. That's right people! I'm a big whore.
(I found that out when I went to my vet's office to pick up dog meds and nobody could look me in the eye.
Finally I was told...
Him v. Me says: SHE DID WRONG!!!)
Perhaps some of this is true. (NOT the "I'm a whore" part!)
But maybe I could have tried harder to guess what made him "happy" but he never gave me a clue. He never complained.
He also didn't LIKE me to do things for him, he would yell at me: "You're NOT my MOTHER!!!"
He was not comfortable letting his needs or wants be known, or even that he HAD any.
(Can you say "Intimacy Disorder"???)I see now I could have stroked his ego more, spoken more of his LL, but does not doing that perfectly make me a bad wife?
I was willing and able to do ANYTHING he felt he needed.
He only had to communicate that to me!
You know, when you ask someone what's wrong, or what they want, and they say,
"Nothing."
Then they get mad that you don't read their minds...
-----------------------------------
Anyhow.
I never believed it.
Even though more than once he tried to make it out to be my fault.
(Of course.)
Here's the funny thing.
On his dating profile, he referred to how wonderful he would be "with the right person."
I thought about that more. (Surprise!
)
I realized that's quite odd.
I mean, I'm ME, regardless of who I'm with!
I have all the same qualities whether I'm with the bagger at the grocery store, or with my H, or out on the dance floor.
"WHO I AM" isn't dependent on the person with whom I'm involved.
Maybe he doesn't really know who he is, or he wants to be a certain type of person, but thinks that he can only achieve this when he is with the "right" person to make it so.
If that isn't twisted thinking, I don't know what is. -------------------------------------
But I entertained myself today with thoughts of all the fun "dates" he might get via his dating site.
If they're anything like him, they've lied too!
They'll show up and be older than they said, and more.
I'm sure it will be an eye-opener for him.
Plus, the guys I saw on there--about 75% of the ones I viewed, CLEARLY were not their stated ages by their pictures.
And the pictures were probably old anyway!
I'm sure the women are just as bad, or worse....
I wish him luck!
---------------------------
Anyway. Tomorrow I'm off to another three day dance event, DJing and dancing. (I'm off restriction with my hip, so hopefully it will not Gumby out on me again!)
GUBU will be here taking care of the critters, and I will be with friends, doing what I love.
Plus, I get to actually sleep in a nice hotel with no dogs waking me up night after night, and no roosters crowing their heads off at 3:30 AM....
I'll read but will keep the posting to a minimum.
Crisis Postings Only!
---GGG
I had a marriage counselor justify my H's cheating by saying that to me. He was getting his needs met. I was livid.
No. An affair is emotional abuse. Period.
We all go with unmet needs from time-to-time. That's marriage...kids, bills, jobs, etc...
If he was unhappy in the marriage, then he coulda gotten OUT of the marriage and THEN found another mate. He didn't. He chose to disrespect me and dishonor our children by cheating while still within the bounds of marriage.
Sorry, this really gets me going. It's like blaming a rape victim.
It's emotionally abusive to cheat on your spouse. It just is. It's abandoning a relationship and partner BEFORE you give them any chance to mend what's wrong.
GGG, you amaze me with your strength, outlook and sense of humor. Keep it up, girl!
See???
I don't make this stuff up.
Even the "pros" say we're at least partly to blame.
---GGG
GGG,
I can't believe his profile! Do they even think that is who they are? Can they be so very deep in the fog that they really believe they are who they describe? I really think that may be the case. Maybe they want so badly to be that person and aspire to be what they say they are. Kind of like how they try on different personalities (my shy W has wanted to be "outgoing" all her life. Well, when she tried that one on at her company X-mass party all the people she worked with thought she was drunk! And she was happy about it!). Always remember, they are truly, totally CRAZY!! (Of course that doesn't explain the oral sex references but that's a whole other can of worms!)
GGG,
Anyway. Tomorrow I'm off to another three day dance event, DJing and dancing. (I'm off restriction with my hip, so hopefully it will not Gumby out on me again!)
GUBU will be here taking care of the critters, and I will be with friends, doing what I love.
Plus, I get to actually sleep in a nice hotel with no dogs waking me up night after night, and no roosters crowing their heads off at 3:30 AM....
I'll read but will keep the posting to a minimum.
Crisis Postings Only!
You being gone is depriving me of my morning funnies--in a good way, BUT I won't deprive your amoeba from water so I'll keep the petri dish adequately supplied to ensure he'll liiivve for you to continue with your experiment!
Princess GGG and the pea...hmmmm....
GGG, Not a damm thing you coulda done. You coulda been the vision of perfection in practically every way and he still woulda gone off the deep end of the pool without a floatie.
Personally, I think an affair is a form of emotional abuse and misguided anger/control sent from one spouse to the other.
Yep. In the end, it's their choice how they handle things and it is their responsibility to handle their happiness. Essentially, how you perceive the world around you is how it is.
MLCr's are broken. They try to fix themselves in any number of ways. But directing anger at your spouse is certainly unhealthy for all concerned. Except lawyers. They always seem to do ok in these situations
AJ
Crisis Posting: Now I'm Getting Nervous!
OK, so I have dropped the rope as much as possible, gone as dark as I feel comfortable with, kept all interactions pleasant and upbeat.
This has been a good six weeks now.
If anything, I do not feel pursuit from him.
I see him mirroring my distancing.
The whole dating site profile, no longer contacting me except for the most basic stuff--- I really felt him reaching out to me a few weeks back but I didn't respond beyond just being pleasant and brief.
I left for my trip and for the first time he didn't ask me to let him know I arrived safely, didn't text "are you there yet?" or anything.
In fact, he seemed very self-absorbed.
----------------------------------
I've gone dark.
He has gone darker.
Our history has neither of us as pursuer.
I think in some ways we'd pursue and distance in different ways at different times.
He would call me a lot, I'd rarely pick up the phone.
I preferred to talk in person.
I'd try and pin him down for some face time and he acted put out.
--------------------------
I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but it feels like he's giving up on me.
(Not an assertive man, he said he wanted to "move on" and for me to "let him go" but he never said he wanted ME to "move on"!)
Thoughts?
I'm stressing a bit.
I feel like I should call him...
You'd think if he saw me moving on he'd act in some way.
But instead I *think* he figures it's over.
We were a lot closer weeks ago, calling and texting, laughing and hanging out a bit.
Now he's looking for companionship elsewhere, and I KNOW this is very recent from the bank/credit/phone charges.
The last thing I want to do us drive him away and I strongly feel that's what's happening.
I'm not sure how to proceed.
I don't want crumbs and I don't want to be in the "friend zone", but I haven't been available at all to even be friendly.
What to do?
----GGG
Breathe and find that quiet, calm place inside you that is pure love. Just breathe and get quiet. Breathe in LOVE and HAPPY.
Push the fear and negative thoughts out. OUT.
In this moment, you are alone and you are OK. :-)
Thanks, Heather. I'm cool...
Just thinking that my distancing has backfired on me.
Well, I called.
I actually have a legit question about something my car is doing.
(I know, I know. Don't want to take it to a garage out of state if I don't have to.)
I left a friendly, upbeat VM... We shall see.
To be honest, sometimes I miss the subtle signals so DBing is a real challenge.
But I feel there was a window where he was reaching out and testing the waters, really upped the communication... And I think I may have inadvertently shot him down, being so focused on being dark.
I think there's a fine line to walk between keeping my boundaries vs. leading him to believe he hasn't a chance in hell of ever getting me back.
------GGG
GGG,
This isn't a crisis...although it may feel like it to you. Going away is good for YOU.
You've done dark for a while which has been good for your PMA and GAL activities. Enjoy the hotel bed and quiet a bit longer because, before you know it, you'll be greeted with noises early in the morning!
My suggestion is to mix things up a bit when you return back home. A bit of friendly chat.
At some point, you are going have to have some R talk. It cannot go on indefinitely without any R talk. You'll know when you ready for the talk. It doesn't have to be a loooong talk, but some short bursts. You'll be able to gauge where H is at in regard to "relationships."
Please keep in mind that H is still on planet MLC and trying out different personas like a teenager. Very much into replay at this stage.
H is a kitty kitten MLCer with an odd, sexual twist that HE must resolve himself at some point.
On a lighter note, this is what I wanted to post last night after the dance:
"Lady! Put the Boy Toy down GENTLY and slowly back away to a safe distance. The Bomb Squad will be here shortly to disarm the device..."
And I listened. It wasn't even that hard.
OK. It was a little hard because I have not had any love in years.
And that statement coming from a woman who would have described herself as "happily married" (mostly) is a sad commentary indeed.
*sigh*
----GGG
(Feeling lonely and wondering why I should be enduring it one minute longer.)
Wonka,
How will I know when it's time for R talk?
I feel like any talk is going to end with him saying,
" I want a divorce and no, I'm not going to tell you why."
It doesn't have to be a BIG R talk, GGG. You can briefly mention that you notice there's some distance and you'd like to hear H's thoughts on this. Very lightweight test to determine where H's head is at. The distance is something you can own up too as well. It is not necessarily all on H.
Perhaps you can start with some joint activities that you enjoy such as riding bikes.
Wonka,
At this point I think any R talk is way premature.
Of course there's distance.
We're "getting divorced"!
(Either one of us could say that at this point.)
That's where it is now. Hopefully that will change.
Things have been happening with him for sure. I've seen more cycling in the last few weeks than I have since all this started.
I've finally seen him really break down and cry over our dog, try really hard to push my buttons and wield his power over me, trying to bait me, alternating with being distant and distracted.
Statements about not being happy, being lonely...
This is all pretty new.
Before it was "If I get away from YOU I'll be happy."
This, plus the mystery "appointment", the bizarre dating profile. (Still anonymous with no picture.)
I have not personally spoken to the little boy or the teenager lately, but clearly they're still in there!
So I guess I'll hang tight.
Maybe mix it up a bit.
Still stay dark but be a little more available... with the occasional call.
We seem to do better when we're around each other more.
Maybe a bike ride if he gets mine tuned up.
It's like he's super sensitive and his feelings are hurt that I'm not "trying to patch things up".
But I'm not the one who ripped our M apart...
---GGG
So I guess I'll hang tight.
Maybe mix it up a bit.
Still stay dark but be a little more available... with the occasional call.
We seem to do better when we're around each other more.
Maybe a bike ride if he gets mine tuned up.
^^ sounds like a good plan, GG! Do what works and ditch others that are cheeseless tunnels.
Update: I think I was right about my gut.
H called back, we had the longest phone convo we've had (other than upsetting/R angst) since OW discovery!
Granted, all we did was talk about the car (he's a mechanic and asking for his expert opinion doesn't hurt) but then we laughed and chatted about my event (crazy schedule) our "kids" and some odds and ends.
We promised to talk again tomorrow...
It felt good. After I hung up I had the distinct feeling that this man does indeed love me...he's just terrified of what he's done, what he's going through.
He's lonely and he's a mess.
As Cadet posted awhile back, I need to be more of a lighthouse, shining my light consistently for him to have hope and know the good and safe course to take.
I think I was turning my light off---and he didn't know I was still there, shining as strongly as ever.
It's a fine line between letting him know that I'm still there, letting him know I won't be forever, and enforcing my boundaries with actions.
He hasn't crossed my boundaries; he doesn't know that I know about the dating profile... Gross, yes, but may just be a lonely man's fantasy and all the rest of the MLC stuff. If he doesn't actually ACT on it, I guess it's just sort of pathetic.
As my friend said last night: "Guess he's really striking out in the real world. I mean, it's not like he can't get out there and meet people, right?"
But he can't. He doesn't go anywhere or do anything to meet people naturally.
Oh well. Gotta go throw down some serious swing music!
----GGG
We promised to talk again tomorrow...
It felt good.
Having a connection is required if you are ever going to have a renewed M. So as long as the talks are
working for you, keep it up.
Oh, and of course H still loves you. This crisis was never about you or the M.
Thanks ForeverYoung.
That made me feel better this morning.
I think going dark was a necessity for my detaching and I still feel pretty detached even now. I was annoyed and a bit obsessive about the online dating profile he posted and almost all of what he wrote in it; but the difference is that I didn't get angry or emotionally upset.
I just kept running it around in my head like a puzzle, looking for clues.
I also realized that I pretty much have been outright rejecting him when I pulled back; avoiding him in person, conversations very brief, no comm except if he asks a direct question.
I did it for me because I needed some space to sort out my emotions, but it seems to have had the effect of negating most of the closeness we'd developed.
I wanted him to see what life would be like without me and I got a few answers as to how he feels about that.
He wants to be in a R.
He thinks I'm done with him.
He thinks I am moving away. (Only if we divorce, so he has control over that of which he might not be aware.)
He is "trying not to bother me" since now he really has no right to act to buddy-buddy.
(Based on prior incidents where me avoiding him made him politely offer to "come home later" so I wouldn't have to see him bc i'd already be in my room. )
I said awful things to him since dDay.
No doubt he thinks I hate him, and some days that's true.
So----------
I have to be friendlier and more available, just make 100% sure it can not be construed as pursuit.
But if neither of us makes steps to come closer, we'll end up at a standstill.
I'll hold my line at crossing my boundaries.
But it's hard to get around the sense that I' using going dark as a punishment for things he does, when it's mostly because I disgusted and don't want to look at or talk to him.
So I'll keep busting on....
---GGG
PS: Last night was GAL heaven. My DJ sets went great, lots of ego boosts during the dances, and the boy-toys were left on the dance floor where they belong.
But it's hard to get around the sense that I' using going dark as a punishment for things he does, when it's mostly because I disgusted and don't want to look at or talk to him.
"Mostly"? You're talking about an overly sensitive person that has hurt you, is punishing himself already, and may very easily be punishing himself more than you ever could. If you tried. A man who can "feel" what's going on between you on top of whatever is going on with himself.
What does "mostly" mean to you? What might it mean to somebody who amplifies everything as it is?
Oh, and of course H still loves you. This crisis was never about you or the M.
Yep. Try not to forget that bit. No matter what he's done or says, what was between you was real. You can't just walk away from that untouched, no matter how you make it look or how alien you might have become. You may give yourself permission to walk away. To cheat. To lie. To blame. But in the end, the lying, anger, etc? That's not about your spouse and somewhere deep down you know that.
If you're an MLCr, you will end up processing that for a very long time. On the outside, things may appear serene, happy, etc, but inside... well, you have seen how these things really are.
Re-examine that bit about "mostly" and see what's left to deal with there. You do not need to be holding on to that kind of stuff if you're going to be a lighthouse. It'll just darken your light. Or at least dim it.
AJ
AJM,
I appreciate your response but I'm not sure I completely understand it.
(Hey, I'm sleep deprived so at this point a lot is going over my head.)
But I'll try to answer what I think you're asking.
I say I "mostly" I avoid him because it's hard to be around someone who is doing the things he's going.
He is doing things which are hurtful to me, he's made decisions and taken actions which I cannot respect.
I can't always be upbeat around him because of this.
I find myself less angry and hurt by him these days, yet more annoyed and disgusted by his behavior.
I have trouble accepting his utter lack of integrity, loyalty, care and concern for us which is minimal at best, if he "feels like it."
I don't have people in my life who act like he does. I have no need for them.
He's not likeable, he lies constantly, he is like a pod-person.
I can't stand being around that except for short bursts.
So that's "mostly". The other part is that I am just happier on my own without having to deal with his "issues" and walk on eggshells around him.
Being out of his target range has helped me detach dramatically.
I can focus on myself and my own happiness.
But I do not like this man he's become. I don't want him, I don't need him.
He is the only person in my life who treats me like something he's been trying really hard to scrape off his shoe.
Somebody tell me why I need that?
If I believed that he would forever be this way, I'd be gone in a flash.
Many times I've thought I was DONE.
Then I see just a little glimmer of the old H, like when we talked on the phone.
I KNOW he loves me. I know he always did. I did nothing to drive him away...
It's hard to stand by and have him treat me as the enemy, blaming me, actively trying to replace me with some ridiculous fantasy rather than deal head on with his issues.
It hurts that after almost 30 years together he thinks so little of me that he took off his wedding ring, emailed me that he wanted to end our marriage, refused to discuss it or resolve it, and is embarrassing himself publicly be chasing women young enough to be his grandchildren, while telling me that I'm just not "attractive" to him.... and more.
------------------
So I know I missed what you were getting at, maybe you can help me by clarifying a bit?
I am grateful you took the time to post on my thread. Sorry if I'm a bit dense at the moment.
---GGG
Hi GG,
Don't have any advice but I just wanted to say that your H sounds much like my W. All the things you stated he has done, taking off ring, wanting to end the M, refusing to discuss or resolve it, saying I'm just not "attractive" to her anymore, are the exact same things my W has done. As I have gone dark since she left, I've noticed that she seems to be angry at me over that. They say that is what they want (us out of their lives) but when you do go dark, it's almost like they get upset over it.
I, too, have wondered why do I want someone (the ONLY person) in my life who acts like I'm something they want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe! I keep hoping that it's true that somewhere deep down she still does love me. I did nothing to drive her away, we were together for 25 years. I know this isn't about me, it's about her and what SHE is going through but what if she never comes out of her tunnel? She is the kind of person who is VERY sensitive and I have doubts that she will ever be able to face up to what she has done to us and her family.
Right now she is getting her new house together and that allows her a distraction from having to deal with anything. But as my D19 says, what is going to happen once the newness and excitement of that wears off? What is going to happen when she is alone and realizes that she got what she wants and she is still not "happy"? In the mean time, the difference between not pursuing and "going dark" is a hard distinction to make. Does she get angry because I go totally dark between picking up and dropping off D14? Even when I do talk to her (the little I have) all she ever wants to talk about is her. I can't remember the last time she bothered to ask about anything going on in my life. They are just so self absorbed.
Since filing for D, she hasn't done anything to keep it moving forward. My L has called asking if we have come to any agreements (the initial filing is full of "Parties will come to agreement over this section") and, no, we haven't because I don't want the D, and she won't talk to me about those things so I don't bring them up! She was so keen on getting a D she filed before she even moved out of the house. Now she hasn't once talked about coming to agreement so it can move forward. Is this her way of holding off or is she just too busy or is it something else entirely ?
I guess I'm just saying I know where you're at. It [censored] that we are so beholden to people who are just so damaged at the moment. Who can't seem to remember the past or have the guts to get what they seem to be looking for from the person who they have right in front of them. That we know that inside of them is the person who they used to be and we can't believe they would rather be the hurtful, deranged acting person who they have become. Who would want to be that person? Can you imagine if you had told your H 10 years ago that he would be posting on that dating site what he has? What would he have said about that then? What would he have said about someone who posted what he has back then? I bet he would have laughed at them and said how sad they must be! This is why we still care about them. Because we hope that somewhere in their fevered MLC mind, that old person still lives, wanting to take back over!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the knowing that they still love us inside is as bad as it is good. It keeps us from totally giving up on them but at the same time we can never be sure if they can ever allow themselves to feel that love for us again. If they can't, all it has done is hold us back from moving forward in our lives.
Just some thoughts, GG.
Matt,
You described it perfectly.
The 20+ years, the decent person who suddenly decides we are the source of all their unhappiness.
My H seems to think he finally realized that his big mistake was that he "married the wrong person", and after six therapy sessions, came to the clear understanding that he finally needed to be "brave enough" to "rectify that mistake."
Thank you "THERAPY".
And yes, years ago he was on his high horse about this or that person who cheated---at WORK no less--*GASP*!!!--- and how pathetic and disgusting it was for middle-aged men to chase around females their daughters' ages while they had a lovely wife at home, his relationship with her the subject of envy.
"She's such a peach! He is so lucky...what the hell is he doing?"
Yup. I've heard it.
And now they're saying these things about him. He doesn't even see himself as the creepy 60--something hitting on his young employees.
In his mind, HE is not like "THOSE guys".
I guess that's how they all feel inside. It is totally inappropriate, yes. But not for THEM. Somehow their circumstances are special.
"Yes, I know you're attractive and everyone seems to love you. But I just don't feel that way and I don't remember ever feeling "in love/attracted to/happy with you." "I married you because I'm a 'caretaker' (CO-DEPENDENT!!) and you were too needy to leave. And I'm so loyal and devoted, I stayed with you all these (miserable) years because I didn't want to hurt you and you needed me so much."
"But I've given you EVERYTHING. Now it's time for me to be happy. I've sacrificed all these years to you out of duty, but I'm tired and I want time for me."
"And no, the fact that I really started to feel this way about you when I started boffing OW has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings. She was not a cause, just a symptom. I've always felt this way about you."
I'll agree with one thing. OW was not a 'cause'.
MLC was!!!!
But seriously? Needy and dependent are two words never attached to my name.
And I know I'm fun and warm hearted and attractive. I don't need his validation for that either.
You so right, Matt. If I told him he'd ever be acting this way he would have said I was nuts.
As it stands, many of our friends have tried to "talk sense into him" when they saw the divorce notice in the paper. Mostly buddies his same age who made stupid mistakes themselves and totally regret it.
Well, he doesn't hang out with his friends anymore, and when I run into them they tell me he won't even return their calls.
Hmmmm. Probably because he KNOWS he'll get an earful of REALITY CHECK and he doesn't want to hear it!
These are the same guys over the years who have consistently said:
"Dude!! What did you ever do to deserve GG? She's so much younger, adorable, such a sweetheart.."
His reply now?
"Well, they don't know how horrible it is to live with you."
I guess when I'm asleep I turn into a werewolf or something.
I just have to keep laughing at this for the farce it is.
To do otherwise would be to allow that crazy little worm into my brain...
----GGG
GGG, I was just trying to help clarify your thoughts.
So I know I missed what you were getting at, maybe you can help me by clarifying a bit?
.
What caught my attention was the part where you may be trying to punish him. You said it was "mostly" because.
It's been my experience when we do things for ourselves and not as a reaction to somebody else's behavior, we don't "mostly" do them nor do we explain them or get anxious about them or how they may affect that somebody else.
It may be that you don't think he sees it or feels it. He does. He's incredibly sensitive and can pick up on all kinds of things.
That's all. Just trying to help you see that you may be trying to "get back" at him for his actions. I don't blame you but it may not be very helpful to you.
AJ
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the knowing that they still love us inside is as bad as it is good. It keeps us from totally giving up on them but at the same time we can never be sure if they can ever allow themselves to feel that love for us again. If they can't, all it has done is hold us back from moving forward in our lives.
Good post, Matt.
I wanted to comment on the part I bolded. We should be doing everything we want to do in life. Enjoying every day and following our dreams. Our spouses cannot hold us back from moving forward unless we allow them to.
Yeah, they pulled the rug out from under us and handed us a raw deal. But it's still up to us how we let it affect us, and what we do with it.
Sometimes, I even think this whole MLC trip is kinda exciting. Nothing boring about it, that's for sure!
Thanks FY and AJM,
I see now I was not clear in my earlier post which was the cause for confusion.
To clarify: I do not retreat or go dark on H to "punish" him.
I often feel the need to put some space between us when I am feeling upset; either because of something he's done, or because of things I'm working out on my own, or because I'm enjoying what I'm doing and don't want to give him the opportunity to ruin it.
Sometimes I just don't want to see him!
I mean, it's not like he's pleasant to be around, is treating me well, being honest, or doing any of the things people do that draw others to them.
Sometimes I'm not at my best, feeling low, and I just don't have it in me to put on that happy face.
I don't want it to come off as punishment; it's not. More like self-preservation and avoiding unpleasant feelings.
We spoke on the phone several times now, that seems good. Feels good.
He has another "mystery appointment" again tomorrow and I am trying hard not to snoop...
He was ANGRY with me after serious NC when I left for my trip.
He did very little here in my absence (unusual) and I had to take out the trash.
Right on top was the note I'd left him with instructions for the pups.
On it, he'd written some nasty comments:
Re: picking up dog food "Go get some your damn self!"
Among other tidbits.
Silly because he always gets the dog food. My days of throwing around 60 pound bags are over....
Anyhow. The note and his snarky comments was in the trash, he went and got dog food. Guess he knew he was being an a-hole.
He clearly is pissed at me having too much fun (true!) while he is lonely and not getting laid by all the babes as planned now that he's "on the market."
Surprise!!!!
Anyhow. The upside is we're talking again.
We'll see what this week brings.
I will be more available, more friendly, more sexy, stopping well short of pursuit or impersonating a doormat!
I had a great weekend. Being home is a mixed blessing.
Goodnight, DBers, wherever you may be this evening...
----GGG
Hey GG,
The one part i wanted to comment on was how they seem to hate when we are having "fun"! Every time my W has heard me say anything about some GAL activity (usually when I'm talking to my D's and she over hears) she seems angry about it! One time she even got pissy and said "I'll be doing fun stuff once I get all moved in" with a sour look on her face. I just smiled and said of course she would. Gee, I didn't know this was a contest! If it is, don't worry, you are way ahead in the making me miserable department!
GG MLCers are zero fun to be around.
And yes, many of them resent our having fun, when they are supposed to be having fun. Some of them also want to hurt us (not all of them, but there is that element)
On one level they do not want us around, and on another they do . . . . a bit like teenagers with their parents.
hiya goat girl _
and yikes, i sure relate to many many things you say.
OK. It was a little hard because I have not had any love in years.
And that statement coming from a woman who would have described herself as "happily married" (mostly) is a sad commentary indeed.
i would have said same thing of self -
this whole business of weeding our way thru this awful sitch - of their creation (yes, i'm weighing in) like you- i'm not perfect - i've always been willing to listen and talk- my life is an open book- he knows it- he could have spoken at any time and gotten whatever he needed from me- well, in the sense of UNDERSTANDING, even if it was bad news and he was unhappy. it's all i ever asked for- honesty. no kidding. just that - be honest. my ex h was a liar- i really hate it. no need for it really-
treat other person as an "equal" and have the decency & courtesy to say what is your problem and leave the r if you're sooooo unhappy. do not put us in the dark- trusting that we love you and trust you - the blame is soooo baby-ish. (and such a cop out) (it's sooooo what i see everywhere around me- my family particularly- everyone has someone else to blame for their crappola - for cryin out loud people- nobody embraces doing the "right" thing when it's really really HARDDDDD..... we do it because it's the decent thing to do- it's the right thing to do (and our own little voice won't let us off the hook ) - i'm tired of people who do the EASy thing and then blame it on everyone else. i'm no saint- i'm honest tho, (i find conflict really really hard)
YOU SAID -
NEITHER pursued each other- us too. it was a (probably) good mix of two very independent, not very mushy people - i thought it was perfect (taking reality into account - longevity, etc) . whatta dope i was. i don't know how you make a non-talker - become one. it requuires alot of intuition and assumption on our(my) part- certain things about r don't change - who people are inside - how they c ommunicate.
sadly- when h & i have a good phone convo- i'd bet he's on his way to go see ow soon and feels guilty as hell and is nice as hell as a result.
i have no idea how to cure or end this once and for all- (unless i'm ready to walk i think) (maybe i'm a sellout because i "fear" being all alone, lonely &poor as heck. he's making my life waaay better than i can provide for self - in real world - by paying bills) and that is an uncontrovertable fact.
that his only choice was to cheat and lie- well, that is totally on him. i'm thinking goat girl - you too. my h has his entire life organized (legally) so that he is a "free" man anytime he wants to be. no f'ing strings , no obligations that are hard to get out of-
he chose to stay and lie and so on. ANYHOO - soooo many things you say, are true of me too- been with this guy 38 or so years.
been dbing for at least three- i'm beginning to forget- it seems like forever and no lie. it stinks-
my h, like yours, is so wierded out- he can't see it-
it all began with me being THE REASON for alllllll his unhappiness in life. he appatrently decided that the "fix" for that (my awfulness in his life??!!) was to dredge up a couple old babes from his youth and have affair(s) -
it may be his crisis (i do not see his "suffering" and anguish -if it exists (i concede he's crazy and confused or "lost" ) on the other hand- i see what i feel and plod thru - the pain, etc. and then his mlc - well, frankly my dear - it's a load of rubbish to me. i get it, insanity, mlc, all of it- i believe it too. the other half of me says total garbage and self serving junk from a person unwilling to just have the ups and downs all the rest of us experience in life- and man up- see it for what it is, and get on with it. appreciate the less exciting, but more worthwhile love we have. life is not non-stop fun & purpose - we all feel like a pointless life at some time, we all need new direction at some point (age, retirement, sickness, death around us, etc)
it never is a good reason (or permissable reason) to hurt the other guy- blame them (???) and be a jerk wholesale.
THAT is their choice of reactions to life's confusion and scary-ness.
my humble opinion.
when you were sayin back a bit about talking on the phone- little spark of "life" - went well. me too- this business of watching every step and dbing and having "strategy" is soooo wearing. who the heck knows what every nuance means? what tiny "thing" is rite or wrong-
you sound like you're going with your gut and doing good- knowing someone sooooolong- witnessing their change into something soooo unfathomable-
i would have said i was in love, loved and happy. we were happy- we were the couple that all my friends envied.
alot still do- h can be great - he can be the biggest jerk in the universe - like spinning that ole roulette wheel and wondering where the stupid ball is going to land.
this ow stuff- i am doing my best to accept- detach(?)(!), am more detached than beginning- if i were totally detached i'd be gone i think. i don't like it- i cannot end it for him- i don't see myself "doing this" forever -
i worry that that is exactly what he thinks - for the rest of my life i am here in his life as whatever i am to him - (important - BUT....) AND SHE's the go to person for sex, doesn't sound like a good deal to me.
it's soooo jacked up - i did have a point here based on something you said - let me think - oh yeah-
i guess your quandry about having the R talk. in very beginning i tried a couple times- itnever ever was a good convo for us. even in ancient times- i'd say (in retrospect) my h is seriously damaged goods in emotional dept. he said it himself - when i met him about his big "thing" being his mom leaving in dead of nite, his lving with nazi dad, etc.- i heard it- i ingested it- i had no idea (really) it could spell emotional disaster. th at and looking at his selfish- cheating parents and realizing that's what he was aiming towards (maybe) kids become what they see-
idk- you sound like you're doing really well tho- feeling way- listening to your gut- being sure who you are and what is your part in this- (it aint the "reason" ) and of that i've become very sure. and i'm a person whose more than willing to shoulder lots and lots of guilt and responsibility always.
good luck tho- i'm reading with interest. i wonder where it will all land- for either of us.
I feel a bit heartened to hear the things you say- feel them and kn ow i feel it too- but the whole inequity and insanity of it gets to me sometimes. I spend alot of time alone because h goes down to fla for three weeks at a clip- than back up to nj for a week or two , it's another sort of insanity- but the alone time always reminds me that that is not all roses either.
i'm heading to fla for a month - will see how it goes to inject myself back into old life (which seems kind of rotten when i'm down there in my old digs - and know now that it was alot of a sham - alot of the time - rather than just happy life in happy house. that's the worst part- wondering just where the 'reality" left off and when. oh well huh-
we can do this rite??
xxo and good luck
Nero,
Great post here, thanks!
Yes, some definite similarities in our predicaments!
------------------------------
So far, allowing a bit more communication about practical things seems to have relieved some tension.
I am still DBing as close to 100% as I can manage on any given day.
I still only contact about practical matters which require attention, or in response to similar contact from him.
I think we don't do well texting and he's said he hates it, so...
Phone calls, short, sweet, and upbeat is what I'm aiming for.
After all, how can he feel/hear me being friendly and upbeat if he never sees or talks to me?
To have any kind of R we have to feel friendly and good around each other, right?
---------------------------------------------
I still get a bit confused about the cake-eating thing.
I feel he needs to know how much it's gonna suck for him when I'm gone, but SOMEHOW I have to let him know I am not a lost cause without just coming out and saying so.
If he's not actively cheating (just trying to???) I'm a bit lost on how to play it.
This is when I wish my ability to read social interactions was better.
THIS IS SO HARD!!!!
And, to my knowledge, he only started actively searching for some "companionship" after several weeks of me essentially ignoring him.
I think he REALLY doesn't want to be alone. He has said so.
-------------------------------
The vets have said to refrain from reaching out, and I agree.
However, since my reason for being dark was self-preservation and detaching, I'm not sure there is a good reason to stay dark if he is not crossing my boundaries.
He is doing things I don't like, but he doesn't know I know so I don't want to tip my hand on my intel...
So it's no R talk, just listening/validating, and no "just checking in" out of habit.
Let HIM do that if it's what he wants.
----------------------------------
But he can't feel warm and fuzzy towards me if I'm MIA, and I have noticed him saying "Hi" to me when he's around, sort of an opening.
(Wow. 23 years of M and I'm encouraged that he's saying "Hi." Wow. )
So I don't want to be "friends" if we divorce, but it seems we should be some kind of "friends" now.
Isn't that how love blossoms?
Help me out here.
My brain is toast.
Too little sleep, too much input, I'm on overwhelm mode right now....
----GGG
And.
Facts that I know:
1. He did buy Viagra online. X 30!!!
2. He joined the dating service very recently
3. He has another "mystery appointment" today.
4. He is warmer towards me when we have more consistent contact.
I agree with the above assessment that he is super-sensitive and is probably beating himself up quite a bit. He doesn't need that from me, even if it's unintentional.
I need him to FEEL GOOD around me.
I can do that!
Meanwhile...I am resisting the urge to snoop!
And no, I don't think it's a "date". I think he is pursuing some type of intervention. Just don't know what it is.
----GGG
Here's where I'm sticking. This dovetails with Sho's thread, comments by Starsky and Train.
My H has filed for divorce.
He thinks we're "separated" but there has been no discussion of what that means other than I threw him out and he has not asked to return.
He's living rent-free at a friend's place, since Feb 2.
He quit therapy when he filed, saying that he is "at peace" with this decision.
No discussion about "why" other than he said he "prefers shallow R and porn". Sexually. He would not discuss whether or not he was interested in a R that was anything more than that.
I have been GALing, 180ing, PMAing my butt off.
I see that my withdrawing has made him angry, there has been some nastiness towards me since I went darker.
I am confident. Independent. Won't stand for crap.
Maybe I'm overdoing it?
Honestly, I am enjoying my life.
I have stopped relying on him for anything.
This seems to have pushed him further away...
I don't want to be "friendly" if he is trying to CHEAT on me.
To me, we're still married and yes, it is cheating.
Clearly in his mind it "doesn't count."
But I guarantee that even if he believes that, he wouldn't be happy if I started "dating".
I have told him that I don't believe it is right to involve other people in our R until divorce.
He did not agree nor disagree.
MLC... What can I say?
-------------
Sorry. I am really foggy today. Probably not making much sense.
---GGG
GG,
There are times when we pull away and continue to live our lives, the MLCer will get angry and distance themselves from us. It's part of the dance. The more you move forward, the more unhappier he will be and yes, distance himself. In order for him to get you to flit around the flame of his candle (like the little moth), he does the distancing, becomes angry and sometimes even lashing out. The way he knows to get your attention and have you contact him is to pull back. The situation is very much like the moth who is drawn to a candle in a dark place. What's happening your situation reminds me of the distance/pursuer dance.
If you have conversations w/him, be upbeat and friendly, but don't share too much of your life w/him. Keep the conversations on your animals, bills, etc. You want to be a tad mysterious about your life and the only way to do that is not share too much of it w/him.
Thanks for clarifying that for me, job.
I was thinking that my distancing was backfiring because I thought if it was "working" (whatever THAT means) that his response would be to pursue.
I thought maybe he was an exception, with self-esteem so low and so much damage done that he'd rather just throw in the towel than make the effort.
It's hard for me to get an accurate read on this via his behavior.
The Viagra and online dating profile certainly don't point to him even considering moving closer to me at any point.
I know he'll do what he'll do, but I FEAR (there's that word) that by being so "one foot out the door" in my GALing that he just figured he'd shop elsewhere.
In DB/DR I thought Michelle said that after several weeks I should begin to see if my efforts are being noticed or making an impact with him one way or the other.
-------------------------------------
So I'll stick with very pleasant "need to know", keeping to the phone rather than text, let him initiate most of that unless I have a legit reason.
I will be "around" when he's here, but will not seek him out.
He will be able to see me, but he'll have to make the first move to chat, per above.
I will continue to use his LL, "Acts of Service" and "Words of Affirmation". He also likes gifts but I'm not comfortable with that.
(I did get him a nice cigar in VA, didn't give it to him. I'm waiting for the right moment if one arises. If I do give it to him, I'll just leave it in his truck or something so he doesn't have to thank me or acknowledge it. And only in response to some positive actions from him. Or I'll smoke it myself!)
--------------------------------
I have gotten excellent advice from the vets on here and I don't want anyone to think I'm ignoring it!
I just was unclear on whether he was one that needed a little more encouragement. You know, "Don't Spook the Squirrel"!!!
I am a very dynamic woman, happy, busy, involved in lots of things, with lots of friends.
My mother has suggested that all this intimidates the hell out of him.
On the one hand, he is proud of me, used to love to trot me out to his corporate superiors... Yet....
These days he prefers to have sex with and associate with people he can feel superior to. He's said so about the former, and his consistent actions prove the latter, going on three years now.
I can't change myself---WON'T change myself---to be less than who I am so he feels better about himself.
I am not a hard woman, nor a controlling one. I can work harder on validating him, etc., but at some point it's disingenuous for me to put myself below him, where it seems comfortable for him.
I want an equal partner.
And he seems to want a sycophant.
----GGG
(Definitely rambling now... Sorry...)
I was reading somewhere (it was on the internet, so it must be true, right?) that divorce courts are littered with people that "changed" suddenly from what they were to something new. And that they tend to regret their choices later on in life, often long after its too late.
I'm not so sure that's the case here. Sometimes the changes occur and they realize quicker. Before its too late.
For your sake, stop trying to pulse check and see what happens. This isn't about you, so the actions you take won't, however normal they are in similar situations, be absorbed the same way. He needs to figure himself out, and you don't need to get caught in the collateral damage.
When you go dark, do so for you. Not for a reaction or a different action from him. Do so because you can't interact if that's the case. Detach from the outcome and live your life. He'll come back if that's what he's going to do.
You know what you want. That's a good thing. Keep working on that self-awareness. It's important.
Hang in there, GGG.
AJ
Hey GG,
Those mysterious appointments? Could he be getting testosterone replacement therapy? It's all the rage these days with clinics opening up everywhere. I had it due to an accident I had many years ago and my levels were VERY low. But those clinics sell it as a magic "youth" serum for the older male! Sounds like that would be right up his ally if his dating site postings are any indication. Just a thought. (By the way, I stopped due to no longer being able to afford it now that W has left. It really makes a difference when you actually need it!).
GGG, I wish I could write as good as you. When I read your posts I see lots of similarities with my situation and a lot of the same questions I’ve been asking myself. It’s been 2 years from BD for me and I’ve been DBing for at least 18 months since I found this site. I don’t see much change in my sitch. Except that he hasn’t filed for D, still. But he ordered Viagra (that was originally shipped to my house, LOL) and he signed up to a couple of dating sites, one of them last summer and another one just recently. Oh, and he had a vasectomy last year, probably hoping for a younger girl who didn’t want kids. I guess it didn’t quite work, so now he is on the 50+ dating site.
I think that my H will never find anybody like me or even remotely close. I was the best thing that happened to him (his words), but I guess still not good enough to continue in the M. You expressed similar thoughts in one of your previous posts.
I love reading your posts and I get a lot of info from replies. I don’t get much traffic on my thread, so I visit yours often, just don’t have much time to post.
(I finally got wise and copied these suckers before posting, because I just lost this to the ozone for a full 30 minutes.)
Yikes, Matt. Testosterone replacement therapy? I hope not!
Only because it would indicate a sincere desire to conquer the women of the world with a
"chemically-enhanced" appendage. Yuck!
I should add, neither of us was saving ourselves for marriage when we met; we'd both made plenty of "trips to the buffet", so to speak.
You'd think at this point he's not trying to make up for everything he "missed'.
What he DID miss were all the things he said he wanted to do when we met.
He never did ANY of them, not due to lack of support from me.
In fact, almost all the things we did do were offshoots of my interests.
That wasn't my choice, he just didn't seem very motivated to do anything other than what he'd always done.
(LIGHTBULB RIGHT THERE!!!)
Although I must say that the majority of his "problems" since our marriage have been, in his mind, rooted in the performance, or lack of, said member.
Not stemming from "real" ED, more psychological/intimacy problems. It always worked "fine" for porn.
Even Viagra won't help his state of mind.
That's what we all REALLY need.
Viagra for more blood flow to the most important organ;
THE BRAIN!!!
But I digress...--------------------
Supposedly, when all this came to light and he went for the full battery of STD tests, he said that "everything was clean and his testosterone levels were GREAT".
I was supposed to be given a written report of all the results. Needless to say, I never got one.
I can't imagine that his T levels are "great" considering his age, general health, issues, depression, alcohol consumption, and ED.... but what do I know?
He has other health issues you'd THINK would take precedence over his male performance, but clearly he thinks otherwise.
So, I don't *think* that's it.
Of course, I've been wrong before!
Can't imagine that a conscientious physician would even consider treating him for low T considering he has more pressing issues physically.
But for every great doc, I'll show you five charlatans...
----GGG
BrightFuture,Thanks for the compliment on my writing!
I like to read a lot, write a lot, talk a lot....
(Really????)
I surely write
too much, but it's how I process.
(Drives H nuts, one of my 180s is processing more quietly. He doesn't say a word about anything. Talk about your two different styles.)
Inside my head it's like a tornado. And I'm not exaggerating.
When I get stressed or don't get enough sleep, it gets pretty crazy up in here!
However, I think you described your sitch quite succinctly.
I'll have to go back and read up.
I've been following so many stories, I have lost track and mixed them up.
I don't know how the vets keep everyone straight.
--------------
Anyhow, back to our Hs. I don't know how people can behave this way; how they can't see themselves for the cliches they are.
They seem to be able to identify it easily and make fun of it in others, yet they can't see it in themselves.
If they could, they would be SO embarrassed.
I think later, if and when they wake up, they are embarrassed, if they remember much.
As it is, I am embarrassed for GUBU (H).
I don't feel the need to fix this for him, yet I cringe watching him do the ridiculous stuff he's doing.
Watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck about to happen. You really should look away, but it's too compelling.
Like bad Reality TV. ---------------------
A few years ago he would have said he could NEVER act like this.
Now he seems to think it's perfectly justified and that he is somehow "special" --not like all those other creepy guys who tromp on their values and blow up their families.
-----------------
I am re-reading my Midlife Crisis book, the first time since I found out that he was, in fact, cheating on me.
I read it the first time before I knew for sure that he was, trying to understand what was going on.
He laughed at me about it, and sent a pic text to OW saying how stupid and crazy I was.
This didn't describe HIM! HE wasn't having a MLC!!!
HE was a super sixty something who had given "everything" to a wife who didn't appreciate him, who he didn't love now and never did, who was horrible to live with, who refused to have sex with him.
Who was using Rogaine because her hair was falling out, she's going through menopause, it's all over. She's too old now.
(No, turns out my hair was falling out because I was so STRESSED by how he was treating me. Likewise with the vomiting. I thought I had cancer.
Nope. Just my best friend betraying me. But during this I'd had a second cancer scare, which he didn't even ask about. Not once... I digress again.)Nope.
HE was the lucky man who decided before it was too late that he had to do what was "right" for him, and I was an ingrate who deserved what I got.
He was trapped in a miserable marriage, he had been unhappy far too long, and he finally had the guts to do what he "needed" to do for himself, since he had completely sacrificed himself for me long enough.
He was soooo lucky that he finally found true love before it was too late... Yeah. Right.
(I found those texts later. Talk about pain.)
Anyhow, I credit the book with inciting me to snoop because I never did, I always trusted him.
Five minutes later--voila!!! OW!!!!! Did I feel like a chump. And many times since.
But for that book, I'd still be in the dark, trusting fool that I am.
---------------------------------
No doubt he counted on my loyalty and naiveté. In fact, he still does.
Thinks I'm too clueless to see how he's spending, among other things.
I try not to snoop, but I can pretty much find out everything I need to know with a few keystrokes.
Anyhow, I could just rip out pages for the Midlife Crisis book and post them here, since they are verbatim accounts of how he's acting.
They describe what he's said and done, right down to the type of cheating he did with the exact type of woman!
It's literally a script he is following.
You almost have to laugh...
--------------------
And speaking of laughing, GUBU used to laugh at the Viagra commercials!
This was back when he still believed the "problem" was that I wasn't attractive enough or something.
Not that
HE had a tremendous number of hangups in that department.
Nooooooooo...
(That's the REAL TRUTH that he never wanted to face. Whenever I brought it up--rarely-- he turned it around on me for "not being "political enough" among other things.)
He also made fun of men we know who cheated, how they were stupid, that their wives were lovely/pregnant!/too good for them, also the men who were sex/porn addicts...
In retrospect I think he was hinting at something. ----------------------------
Unfortunately for me, the Asperger's makes "hinting" a somewhat useless enterprise.
It takes me a while to "take the hint" if I ever get it at all.
I struggle with that, greatly.
I am working on it, but I'm not sure that is "fixable" in me.
All I am able to do is run it around and around in my head and try and figure it out rationally.
And process, write, talk it out.
And when that fails, I ask questions.
Which often never get answered because, as it turns out, most people don't KNOW what they're really feeling or why they feel that way.
Or how to fix it.
Or they can't explain it to me.
Or they can, but I still don't understand why people do some of the things they do.
To me, it's not always easy to do the right thing when you don't feel like it, but the right thing is to do it anyway!I don't understand why people know what the right thing is, but choose to do something hurtful over and over.
We all make mistakes.
But I have can't imagine ever doing anything to anyone that would cause the kind of pain my H had no problem inflicting upon me.
I don't understand meanness, selfishness to that degree. I just don't. I probably never will. I can accept it. I just don't respect people who act that way. And that's GUBU these days.
(GUBU is my new "pet" name for H.
Gross, Unusual, Bizarre, Unprecedented, my pet Amoeba in my science experiment. Thanks to whoever it was that said that, I can't remember who!)
-----------------------------
One good thing is, at least his buying the Viagra shows a bit of an awakening that the problem lies with HIM and not ME.He has said as much before, in between saying it's that I'm not his "type".
(Hmm... did I coerce him into a R, and hold him at gunpoint for the wedding, and hog-tie him to the fridge for almost 30 years now?
I must have.
Either that, or he should be nominated for sainthood for standing by such a horrible woman for so many years, sacrificing himself on the alter of my neediness and inability to cope on my own.) On the other hand, he's still trying to fix what's wrong inside him by finding something outside of himself to change. Maybe one day that will change.
Well, today is another day.
One of my 180s is to cross more of the things off my to-do list which I would normally avoid like the plague....
Let's all enjoy this day because, let's face it, as sh*tty as things may be, they could STILL be a whole lot worse!
---GGG
Thanks, Y'all, for re-posting Raine's thread.
(She used to be Hopper.)
I have been re-reading it and getting more out of it now when I did the first time around.
Not only is she a wonderful writer, clearly articulating her experience and that of her H, she is insightful... and able to be so compassionate in such a tough situation.
I am inspired. And validated. I can see parts of my own story there and it gives me hope.
Without hope, something to shoot for, I don't think I'd be able to keep on this road. It's a lonely and difficult one to walk, with lots of hills and valleys.
Her posts are helping me see into my H a bit more, since she and her H were able to actually talk about what he was experiencing during his depression/MLC.
And it's not just Raine, it's job, (snodderly?), AJM, Wonka, and the rest who posted on her thread.
I have bookmarked it for all the priceless wisdom in there.
The names confuse me a bit since they change over time, but I think I've got who's who now. Maybe.
I am a little screwy still, don't know what's up with that... another phase I guess. Still feeling detached but grasping for understanding, feeling a bit lost.
Oh well. I guess we cycle too. This is just another loop around the MLC world.
Thanks again.
---GGG
This from Raine:
"But now I've reached a "what the heck is this" moment. He has taken up to cybering/video sex with an out of state, previous co-worker. Except this time, it is 100% physical, no emotions. ........ Easy target me thinks. I think he has approached other women with innuendo who are not responding, but this one is, and she doesn't know anything, not even that we are separated.
What's interesting to me is I know he finds me super attractive, but he has not made any kind of move on me, but seems ready to pounce on any other woman who gives him the time of day. He doesn't flirt with me or anything. Maybe he respects me, doesn't want to hurt me, doesn't feel good enough for me, couldn't handle me rejecting him?"
----------------------
And this from job:
"Hopper, (Raine)
Your h is out there looking for something that isn't really there. He wants the fantasy, whereby there are actually no strings attached. What he's doing is feeding his ego and when it comes to you and who you are...there is a lot of work to love and commitment comes along w/the package.
Keep in mind, this is your h's journey and you weren't invited on it. He's out there searching for something to fill the hole deep inside of him that was left when he was emotionally stunted as a child. Happiness comes from within and not from outside sources and he's got to learn all of this before he can grow up and be a mature man.
He knows that you love him and that you are "waiting" for him. He knows what he is doing is huring you, but he's doing it anyway because it makes him feel better and it gives him that rush he needs to feel better about himself.
You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Please don't take his actions personally because this is all about him and him only.
BTW, he's no where near hitting bottom and it's going to take a long time before he does. He's not hit enough brick walls to make him realize that he's going to lose everything good in his life.
Keep the focus on you."
----------------------
From Raine:
"I totally see your point now. (job) It's not about sex as much as conquest/feeding his ego and there wouldn't be any of that if he went for me. This too is strangely better in my mind as well. It seems like if he gets rejected, one of them tells him no atm, he cuts them off."
"... but him not having any commitment to anyone makes it easier, plus that he seems to be more of a fantasy level try to avoid any kind of real attachment or commitment or relationship. It's just about wanting all these women to want him. I wonder if a relationship is just way beyond his capabilities to function and that's why the OW was cut off."
This is EXACTLY where I feel I'm at right at this moment.
So glad I read this stuff. It is helping.
---GGG
Again on Raine....
One thing she seemed to do pretty consistently was keep the lines of communication open with her H, while trying not to judge him, even though he was being so hurtful.
My H has said similar things about never being able to get past this with me, that I should go on and be happy with someone else, that he is "broken" and doesn't think he can be fixed.
I don't want to be his "pal", but maybe I need to be his shoulder.
If he reaches out, I can be there to listen without judgement, even if I don't agree.
-----------------------------
I see now I have confused detaching with withdrawing, and not-pursuing with shutting him out.
I can feel detached without withdrawing from him.
I can refrain from pursuit without actually distancing or shutting him out.
If I am too overwhelmed or emotional to keep it together, withdrawal might be necessary for a time to get my bearings.
I can see that he's fragile. I will continue to work on my compassion while reminding myself not to take the things he's doing personally.
Sometimes I lose sight of that when his actions seem to discount my value so heavily.
I know I'm worth it.
I hope in time he will see this too, and then perhaps be able to be the man I need him to be.
Meanwhile, all I can do is encourage him and believe in him.
That's the other thing Raine did.
Even when she lost faith, it sounds as though most of the time she was able to communicate that to her H.
---GGG
GGG, be careful not to spin too much. It's not good for your well-being, ya know?
But I'm glad to see you're revisiting. And getting more out of it this time.
You were together for 29 years. He's capable of being the man you want/need. The question is if he'll come through this and if so, what he will be capable of being when he does. As you may have surmised, he won't be that "final product" right away. You'll have to tease that out of him as time goes on, if given the chance.
That's really the point. This is on him. It's about him. I know you felt crazy at the time. But that was yesterday. Today you know a lot more about what's going on than you did. Since you do, you also know it's not about you and that you can only be encouraging from a distance. To be closer would be detrimental to you both.
I don't know how people can behave this way; how they can't see themselves for the cliches they are.
What makes you think he doesn't know? That the "need" to go through this isn't stronger and able to override his ability to be a decent person?
I've been where you are, GGG. It's confusing. It's difficult. It's painful. It's liberating. It's all of the above at once or in a few seconds.
Once you know what's going on, and I think you have a good handle on it, you'll need to accept the here and now. The what is, vs. what was, or should be, or what may be.
Once you've accepted it, the question will be what you choose to do about it.
The pages that are verbatim? Yep, I think I could have written half of it about my ex and her H. Now that I know, I choose my actions and reactions. That has brought me great peace. I think it will for you as well.
AJ
Hard to know, but I am not sure I agree with AJ. In my case, I do not think my xh has a clue how cliched his behaviour is.
Conversations reported to me by my children (intemittently - this isn't a big thing) indicate there isn't a shred of insight into his behaviour.
But like I say, my situation may not be typical, and it could be he is fully self aware but just can't stop.
What makes you think he doesn't know? That the "need" to go through this isn't stronger and able to override his ability to be a decent person?
This would be my W during moments of clarity during the dark days (anger/replay)... "I know what I am doing is wrong, but I just HAVE to do this, I feel I must do this..."
What makes you think he doesn't know? That the "need" to go through this isn't stronger and able to override his ability to be a decent person?
This would be my W during moments of clarity during the dark days (anger/replay)... "I know what I am doing is wrong, but I just HAVE to do this, I feel I must do this..."
Yup. I've felt this way while in MLC. It is the wooly-itchy feeling inside our heads that compels us to act out our internal angst.
I've told Ms. Wonka this at various times during very rare moments of lucidity:
"I'm not the bad guy here"
"Something's wrong with me"
I had a marriage counselor justify my H's cheating by saying that to me. He was getting his needs met. I was livid.
No. An affair is emotional abuse. Period.
We all go with unmet needs from time-to-time. That's marriage...kids, bills, jobs, etc...
Ans:Yup, that's marriage & being a grown up - understanding that it isn't "perfect." Agree!!
If he was unhappy in the marriage, then he coulda gotten OUT of the marriage and THEN found another mate. He didn't. He chose to disrespect me and dishonor our children by cheating while still within the bounds of marriage.
Ans:I cannot express how emphatically (!) I agree w/you re bold immediately above. Within the last 5 years when the problems began excalating re: H (more $$ strain re recession), my H went through a 'sulky' period. Earlier this year after the bomb, I asked the same, do you want R? He never answered, just chose to cheat & treat me badly. He didn't 'bite' with both incidents, didn't want to entertain it. Too much to get into here - anyway you will also recall C. Brinkley's M to French biz man I believe, another cake eater - they don't 'walk the talk'.
Sorry, this really gets me going. It's like blaming a rape victim.
It's emotionally abusive to cheat on your spouse. It just is. It's abandoning a relationship and partner BEFORE you give them any chance to mend what's wrong.
This woman also thinks this is our fault, link below - 'Extra-marital sex is a release for men, not a betrayal'.' (whoa!!! - link below)
It's an interesting read/'take' for sure. She has some 'valid' points - however, at the end of the day, I believe it's is
all about BAGGAGE. Although her arguement is thought provoking, I read somewhere (can't remember w., have been reading so much!!!) that
there is a very small percentage of truly 'functional families', most are dysfunctional but to varying degrees (this we already know, right?).
Secured people wouldn't need to express that
'haunted, restless void' elsewhere, they would
reach out to each other - communicate needs effectively, get help, & proceed to 'grow up' (!!) together - while occasionally revisiting issues too!
However, the real catch is that the majority of us have been hurt on some level in childhood. "To err is human" ... Our parents parented us, but they were still growing up themselves (we never stop emotionally maturing, do we?). They continued growing up through each different stage in their lives, but doing so while taking their baggage from one life transition to the next. It's no wonder the world has so many dysfunctioning families. So like Lois - I agree. Something was not right for the cheater deep down inside (in sitch excluding R where folks are simply not compatible/other variables of course). Its just that her statement is too general. "Baggage" lots of baggage means the individual with eventually fall -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...-man-happy.htmlJust going through this thread GoatGal (!) & your progress
. Will continue now - just 'had to' stop here! p.
GG like so many,
I can relate to some aspects of your experiences. What a ride you have been on (& continue with).
When I think of my sitch (15 yrs), I think that the duration of your own certainly makes it more challenging for you. It was great to read of your dancing!!
From your post, you were rather isolated as well & this contributed to your constantly thinking about your h. I am not as isolated but a bit homebound & don't know many people here in my new home. It hit hard particularly in the beginning (the isolation which is 'cured' by being with the only one you know there).
Your DB approach is obviously working - it's a long haul
but one we must all take cautiously! It would do us good eventually. Keep dancing ! p.
hey hi-
i just wanted to say wow and i'll be back later to reply. i just wrote you a big long bunch of crappola (uh hem important observations) - but God apparently thought it sh ould go to the phantom zone and it did. don't ask me how i do it- lost in it's entirety. crazy fingers
ijust want to say you could be me writing this stuff. I sure feel your pain and quandry. it's a mine field we're traversing isn't it? one little step this way, one that, fingers crossed, I feel too tired for this junk most days. well, one more day,
almost allll of it. i'll be back. gotta walk before sun gets hi or another day lost. how did we live with them for soooolong and be sooo trusting so completely and they end up like this? i'm just sayin.... wtf
xxo
Thanks for all the feedback, fellow DBers....
I have been busy GALing and dealing with GUBU, monitoring the experiment and documenting the results.
One of my 180s has been to be less distracted by my laptop...so in keeping with that I've taken a bit of a hiatus.
But I still catch up and read at bedtime.
News to follow.... but here's a teaser:
GUBU made a trip to the bike store near where he works to get all the parts to fix my bike up for riding, which he finished for me today. (I didn't ask, he offered.)
He is now warning me about coming up into my living space, as I think he should. He no longer lives here. I think that's a sign of respect.
We are working on doing some cooperative projects--something he's always resisted, with planning and being pinned down on things.
I always thought it was passive-aggressive on his part to refuse to commit to anything, now I wonder if it's just not too much "togetherness" that bothers him---anyhow,
I am using my best DB language to try and set it up so we can actually get some projects completed... reasonably.
He tends not to think things through, I decided that rather than point this out as a shortcoming of his (!!!) I'd just say: "In order for me to do my part I need to have a plan and be able to work cooperatively... compromise... yadda, yadda, yadda...."
Although it annoys me that I have to pussy-foot around the issue of his inability to plan ahead and work together towards a common goal, I decided that it is a test of my "people skills" to frame it in a way where he would not feel "trapped" and so far, he's been on board.
There is a LOT of ego-stroking that I have to do, more than I'd like for the main man in my life, but I get that it comes with the territory.
So I'm validating and love-language-ing my way along. Big time.
And when he is not here, I am GALing big time. I ask no questions, I offer no info, I'm sticking with the plan.
========================
I know in my heart that he knows this too:
He would be very lucky indeed to find another woman like me for so many reasons.
I am the spouse he would be a fool to leave.
If he does push this divorce through, he is truly a fool and he will live to regret it.
Just like all his (former) male friends his age who dumped their "less than perfect" wives for younger/different models.
Every one has told me they completely regret what they did, and wish they could take it back!
They are now married to women who are a far cry from what they THOUGHT was out there for them, the "fantasy" never did materialize and they didn't want to be alone, so they found someone who would be with them.
Are these men happy? Not from what I've seen.
And GUBU won't take their calls...he doesn't want to hear it.
----------------------
I'm not even going to re-read or edit this.
Tonight I'm meeting friends for dinner, then DJing another dance.
I plan to have another great evening, even if it means I have to sacrifice another night's sleep for it.
------GGG
Hey GG, I just wanted to say I like you and I like how your mind works. And I like your DJing...ok I imagine I would like your DJing cause I am sure you throw in some ukulele pop numbers with Lady Ga Ga...which would be intriguing and hard to dance to!
ok now onto my 3cents worth (seriously that extra penny makes all the difference)
I am the spouse he would be a fool to leave.
If he does push this divorce through, he is truly a fool and he will live to regret it.
Just like all his (former) male friends his age who dumped their "less than perfect" wives for younger/different models.
Every one has told me they completely regret what they did, and wish they could take it back!
They are now married to women who are a far cry from what they THOUGHT was out there for them, the "fantasy" never did materialize and they didn't want to be alone, so they found someone who would be with them.
Are these men happy? Not from what I've seen.
And GUBU won't take their calls...he doesn't want to hear it.
I never tire of hearing how you just toss back your hair, flex the sex ( don't know what that means but it just rolls off the tongue nice!) and state the glaring truth that you are more than worth your weight in Wonderwoman gold. Gubu just needs to quit playing with the paperdolls that aren't worth anything and can get lost in the wind as they are without substance. oh. ALso if they get wet they are ruined. Or fire reduces them to ashes. ok enough of my beautiful imagery.
Your voice is beautiful (not just singing!) and it just gets stronger and stronger as your new you just flashes across your world and the db forum here.Pitch perfect! Its a pleasure to see you mature in this and you really inspire me =D
So on your side as always, batarangs ready. Keep at it GGG
hey hi-
i love your certainty. I have my moments of it- reading your list of what you KNOW - i agree as well. will h ever know it? before he wrecks his own life - idk.
I hear you echo me in so many thoughts- i 'm wondering if it's the longevity here. I am waivering tho- i can feel it happening. i began more "bleeding" for sure- but more sure of what h was/is. now, i may be - uh hem - wrong. perhaps i've been wrong" about him and everyone my entire life? all along - one has to wonder.
One of my 180s has been to be less distracted by my laptop...so in keeping with that I've taken a bit of a hiatus.
cripes - me too. this forum & people saved me for sure- now, i am trying to "not talk about it all" and not think about it all- and that laptop sitting there [censored] me in and over. i'm trying to keep away from it - i rant way too much and all it does is reopen all the old wounds.
i wonder if it's okay to just let it all go without ever really knowing or understanding or "fixing" or somehow "slotting" it all. that's me - i want it all labled for future reference and tucked in it's own little pigeon-hole. i have no lables or ability to do it with all this junk of past bunch of years.
could it really be as simple as "do you want to know this new guy or not" . would you even want to love him? or would you ever be able to trust him? and is that a deal breaker? not that i'm being invited to do so - mind you.
he just does not GO totally or demand that i do. he does pay the bills- huge. he does come back "because he enjoys my company" so he says???... he sure does not tell me what i want to hear- on other hand- he doesn't bash me on the head with what I don't want to hear. stalled? some days i don't give a darn what it is- just leave me be
idk- he's being v nice, little trips, pleasant companion- not crabby & critical & bossy. just a bit wierd now - after i see, in retrospect, lots of years of being crabby and solitary an so on. i wsa such a trusting & loving gal- i see now what a doofis i was too - what a selfish jerk and here's me doh de doh being "trusting" - i shudder to think of my blindness.
amazing what i'd become used to- looking back- the things i see now tht i never attached huge importance to. sure woulda been nice to have a r with someone that actually communicated instead of the awful way this all play3d out- - -
now, computer or person - if i don't talk about it- i'm alot more neutral and not thinking about "it". a good thing i think . how long can i keep the "memory alive" - perhaps i'm just letting go of my past more than ever. ?? i find the couple girlfriends that really want to "talk" it over and so forth- i end up feeling badly and all icky allover again when we're done. clouds my whole day- dragging me back into those awful feelings-
is it gal-ing? or copping out if i just leave it out of my mind now as much as possible? i don't feel all forgivie- i don't feel like "keepin" it alive anymore. like reliving an awful illness or something terrible.
i'm with you- the pussy footing when they're the nutballs is old - but i still mwd is right on the mark with her observations about this stuff.
i've been dbing i think for 3 or 4 years- he's asking me this mornnig for ideas & help with re-doing the outside of the house?!!, new sprinkler, walks, garden, pool? etc. surprises me- he's such a power freak- can't even believe he wants input. ineresting- who is this man?
i constantly wonder. where is old guy- did he exist- does it matter?? (i think so tho) , who is this new guy and is he worth even thinking of loving? (maybe not) is he worthy (liatr?) etc.
ya gotta wonder. maybe it's like coming home after a total mental breakdown - are ya same (on drugs) or are you totally different person whose being controlled by the drugs, etc.
no drugs involved- but huge questions aabout eactly who and what this new person is.
oh well- i'm makin myself tired- work to do
hopeyour day is good.
i'm jealous of your going out and dancin- i'm doin more-i can't figure otu when i'm down here- what the stinkin strategy is supposed to be. detached okay, nice but not mushy - okay; nice but not bending over backward - okay.
available? , i see friends & pick up neiced kids to play in agfternoons. they're a bit wacky- but i enjoy them a heck of alot and need the laughs and huggs - ALOT...
i always know about ow in the background somewhere. i don't see a sigh of her around here (i kn ow she comes here) - so, things calm or pleasant- BUT know about the dark undercurrents out there -
recipe for exhaustion huh? maybe a nap??
xxo My beacon may be shining , but the ole lighthouse is on rocks slowly sinking i think- sometimes goes under- in the hands of God i guess- i truly do not know much about it at all anymore. me or him
Still here, still processing, still in quiet mode.
Never fear, I am keeping tabs on all of you!
--GGG
GGG,
I am seriously deprived of my morning funnies! C'mon on out whenever you're ready... I have my patience shovel with me and I can wait this out.
I often read your thread before I first posted...you crack me up. I'm with Wonka XD.
Take a time-out to take care of YOU, but know you're thought of and missed!!!
What's a patience shovel?? Where can I get one?
^^^^ LOL! Get in line, Shining! I've got mine on order!
Still here, still processing, still in quiet mode.
Never fear, I am keeping tabs on all of you!
--GGG
Perfectly natural stage to be in.
Thanks guys...
Have no fear, I am actively DBing my heiney off.Just today, when GUBU was here, I got annoyed at him. (What else is new?)
You were all in my head as I kept chanting to myself:
"STFU
STFU
STFU
S---T---F--U....
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!"
And I kept my mouth shut.
Then I pulled off my long sleeve work shirt layer and worked the rest of the day, right under GUBU's nose, in a paper-thin tank top, push-up bra, and short cut-offs....
YOWZA! He kept sneaking looks at me because I caught him a few times.
And I know I'm over 50, but I'm a dancer, ya know? And I grew up with sunscreen...
I'm still keeping it classy though and not too obvious.
Doesn't everyone clean the chicken coop with wearing makeup and perfume? (Subtle, now, I'm talking really subtle.)
It's about as Passive-Aggressive as I allow myself these days when I get ticked off at some stupid thing he does. Today he locked his truck, like he's afraid I'm going to snoop in it or something, maybe find his Viagra stash...
This was just some eye candy--sort of a "Take THAT image back to your "Over 50" dating site and good luck!
Just enough of the visuals to remind him what he's got right here at home.
And I know he noticed, although he wouldn't dare say a word...
----------------------------------------
I have had a few "Porch Parties. Now my "friends" come with some fancy Organic cigarettes (Hahaha!) He sees this and I know it annoys him. He always gets testy for awhile after he notices.
Oh well! What does he think, I'm just sitting here alone night after night pining away? Not on your life!
I've been out GALing every weekend and try to hit a few weeknights as well. Open mics, Blues Jams, dance events, the usual. Live music, get-togethers, dancing.
I'm forcing myself to go more often, if only because it clearly p*sses GUBU off!
I have made sure that when he's seen me, he's seen me looking my best. Since I look pretty sharp these days, I know he's noticing. Again, not enough cojones to comment on it. He wouldn't dare.
---------------------------------------------------
Some other updates:
The OW is no more at his work, for at least a month, maybe more. I keep wondering if that day he started to say something, if that was what he was going to say, but just couldn't figure out how to bring it up.
Or he worried that it might lead to "R talk". (It wouldn't.)
I got a weird invite from him on LinkedIn, I guess he paid to upgrade his profile and he must be connected with her, because she came up as a "suggestion" for me!
Yeah---right!!!
(Yeah. I can endorse her. She's a slut who slept with my husband, after doing various nasties with him in broom closets, while she was cheating on her husband and leaving her little kids at home while she was "working late". Where do I sign up for that????)
I'd say her departure would be considered relevant information because he knows the fact that she has been working with him all this time is upsetting to me.
Interesting too that her leaving coincided very neatly with my call to her closest co-worker (the phone debacle, back on my older thread),
the call in which I said that GUBU had no business texting her in the middle of the night, that she should stay away from him, that he has serious issues, is treating me horribly, that he already had an inappropriate relationship at work, that he was living on a friend's couch, that a divorce was pending, and that he has a serious infection that can be transmitted sexually. All true.)
Well, I figure, maybe she talked to OW and OW decided maybe it WAS finally time to get gone!Here's something interesting: She was chubby before, now there is a picture of her with her new company, looking so "deflated" that I hardly recognized her. She doesn't even look like the same person.
And it doesn't look like it's that she's gotten in shape.
It looks more like the Pillsbury Dough Boy got all the air sucked out of him.
She looks haggard, rolls just hanging, face is drawn.
In short, she looks miserable!
Dumpy, frumpy.. looks like someone who should be on "What NOT to Wear".
Why am I not crying? Ok. I'll stop trashing her for now.But it makes me think of GUBU.
He is short on compassion these days (like, NONE), but even HE must have noticed how awful she looks. I wonder if he realizes it is at least in part due to what HE did to her.
Anyhow, lately he seems to want me to feel "insecure" so I guess keeping this to himself goes along with that.
But tonight.....-------------------------------------------------
Just tonight, after two nice days of working together on various projects---
He texts me that he won't be here AGAIN on Tuesday. No explanation....All I said in response was "
That's my open mic night". (Which I had to skip last week because he blew me off.)
I get this back from H: "I have to interview someone for 'similar to OW' position and that's the only night available."(No details, but he totally tipped his hand.)
I didn't respond, then he texts back:"Really... well it's MY MAKE MONEY night. Good night."
(Implication being, his life is important, reminding me who makes the money around here. Bullying tactics, as usual.)
I still STFU.... and then about 30 minutes later, I get: "And I should not have to explain."(He always does that when he's mad. He eliminates his contractions and writes more. As in--I will not, I do not want to...)
Gee--I dunno. Did I ASK him to explain????
Dummy. Tipping his hand, clearly PO'd at me for trying to have a life.
--------------------------------
Speaking of "Having a Life"He has now updated his dating profile with a scary pic of him in dark glasses, As if he thinks he won't be recognized or something... Hiding your eyes.
What does that say about you?
He also added a montage of pics which include MY LITTLE DOG (who hates him), among other pictures of "our" life where I am notably absent. Trying to sell himself as this vibrant, outdoorsy type. (Nope.)
That really got my hackles up, that he had a pic of MY DOG on there.
Anyhow, these nasty texts came pouring in while I was on that site and saw he was online at the same time. (No, not spying on him, and no, definitely NOT looking to date. Just seeing what's out there...)
I saw he'd looked at my profile several times and perhaps left some messages.
(I can't tell without paying, so I'm not positive.)
So from his end, he's sent messages and I'm not responding. I don't think he's getting any traction on there. There are tons of better looking, younger guys on there, none of whom mention what they want sexually! (Ugh. Disgusting.)
I updated my "profile" to say that the man I'm interested would actually be single, healthy, ready to start a real relationship now. That if they have a history of infidelity, a wife, are lying about their age or anything else, don't bother contacting me.
Well, after I updated that, I saw he looked at my profile again and read that.
Cue NASTY TEXTS!!!!BTW--- No way he knows it's me. I think he's just mad that I'm having fun and he can't seem to get it together!
If I decided to date, I wouldn't need to do online dating, let's just leave it at that.
He doesn't do anything with anyone or go anywhere to meet anyone.
He's taking the easy, fantasy-based way of going about it.
And he's still looking for a "serious relationship".
Dude!!! You're MARRIED!!!! And he will be for at least another 18 months.
At which point, he'll be a 65+ year old paying alimony through the nose, a bum knee, a serious health condition, no one to "pet-sit" for him anymore and keep his house clean, and his "Daddy Warbucks" persona won't last much beyond that.
He'll have more debt than he can pay off with what he'll have left in our 50/50 split of our IRA/401K.
No doubt in his mind, this has not factored in... He sees himself as this hip, young-for-his-age, single, happy, romantic guy who is looking for the love he missed in his almost 30 year miserable relationship with ME!
He has SO much to offer the "right person" who will solve all his problems, kiss his boo-boos, and make it all better.
Wait until she finds out that he doesn't have a pot to p*ss in, a really angry ex, and a house that is still barely habitable. Add in a bunch of dogs and they'll come running!!!
Well, I said I wasn't going to write, but I guess I had some things on my mind. Hahaha! ------------------------------------------
So I think about my pals here all the time, and read your stories every night before bed.
I am enjoying the threads from Maybell, Shining, GeorgiaBelle, Rayzzz, TO....and all the rest.
And my vet friends continue to hand out the awesome advice like cookies at the birthday party nobody wanted to come to.I am taking all this to heart and working hard.
I had to be a little more friendly on a regular basis because doing really dark definitely had the opposite effect over time. He never pursued AT ALL, he just sort of counted me out.
Now I don't pursue at all, but I am around IF he wants to seek me out, I'm happy, upbeat, and I never let him see me sweat.
I let him see that I have one foot out the door and that I am not lacking for friends and things to do without him.
I don't initiate any comm unless it's necessary, but I respond back nicely to whatever he sends, and in a timely fashion.
I do my Acts of Service, Words of Affirmation, being busy, happy, scarce, and I did give him one "gift", the fancy beer and cigar I got on my last trip---BECAUSE----
HE WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO BUY ALL THE PARTS FOR MY BICYCLE AND GET IT ALL NICE AND CLEANED UP FOR ME!! (This was last week.) So I thought that would be a good time. I just left it for him, with a note, "Thanks for fixing my bike". He thanked me for it later, I just said that I appreciated him doing that for me. End of conversation.
Today he said he went for a ride with his roommate/landlady and said she didn't go far, and he realized that he prefers to ride alone.
Big surprise. He hated running with anyone either.
Maybe one of these days he'll ask me to come.
But knowing him, he's probably waiting for me to invite myself!
He's that much of a wuss these days, sorry to report.
Anyhow, we've had a lot of positive contact, but I guess he's still looking "OUT THERE" for the "RIGHT" person who will make all this go away.
So it goes!
-----------------------
So far, no insight into what those "mystery appointments" have been. I see no credit card or bank charges... it's weird.
I imagine that one of these days something will come from the insurance company that will clarify things.
And I bought a new guitar!!! (Rayzzz, it's a TENOR GUITAR!)Something new to tangle with for awhile.
-------------------------------------
And the experiment continues....
-----GGG
Sounds like he's unsure, or still crazy, or scared.
Hey gg, I've started talking about my crazee life and telling jokes in new comers if you like come join our joke party.
Ggrass,
I'm going with ALL OF THE ABOVE!
* Unsure
* Definitely Still Crazy
* Scared
----------------
And yes, I could use a good laugh, so I'll be along!
---GGG
GGG,
Your life mirrors
Charlotte's Web. Not saying who is Wilbur!
Then I pulled off my long sleeve work shirt layer and worked the rest of the day, right under GUBU's nose, in a paper-thin tank top, push-up bra, and short cut-offs....
YOWZA! He kept sneaking looks at me because I caught him a few times.
And I know I'm over 50, but I'm a dancer, ya know? And I grew up with sunscreen...
^^^Whoo-hoo from the barn animals! Nice going right there, GGG. Love how your mind works.
Today he locked his truck, like he's afraid I'm going to snoop in it or something, maybe find his Viagra stash... MLCers are a tad paranoid nowadays. Trust me on this.
I have had a few "Porch Parties. Now my "friends" come with some fancy Organic cigarettes (Hahaha!) He sees this and I know it annoys him. He always gets testy for awhile after he notices.Your GAL activities does raise the MLCer's hackles. It is a paradox for us MLCers...we wanna do WHATEVER we damn please and yet get annoyed when our spouses go and have a good time too. Go figure.
He is short on compassion these days (like, NONE), but even HE must have noticed how awful she looks. I wonder if he realizes it is at least in part due to what HE did to her. Yeah...my empathy chip was out of commission too during my MLC. I was numb. Let me tell you about an incident and it makes me
wince just thinking about it. During a family vacation with Ms. Wonka's family at Martha's Vineyard (the one I almost didn't go), one day at the beach Ms. Wonka came to me breathing rapidly and obviously looking a bit scared and said, "Wonka, I almost drowned out there. The waves were big," My response? "Oh" and went right back to doing whatever I was doing. Ugh!!!!
Just tonight, after two nice days of working together on various projects---
He texts me that he won't be here AGAIN on Tuesday. No explanation....
All I said in response was "That's my open mic night". (Which I had to skip last week because he blew me off.)
I get this back from H: "I have to interview someone for 'similar to OW' position and that's the only night available."
(No details, but he totally tipped his hand.)
I didn't respond, then he texts back:
"Really... well it's MY MAKE MONEY night. Good night."
(Implication being, his life is important, reminding me who makes the money around here. Bullying tactics, as usual.)
I still STFU.... and then about 30 minutes later, I get: "And I should not have to explain."
Two things pop in my mind when reading H's texts:
-He doesn't want to have to answer to anybody...especially a wife who he perceives as a mother figure
-He feels inadequate so he wants to show he's CAPABLE of making money himself
He has now updated his dating profile with a scary pic of him in dark glasses,
As if he thinks he won't be recognized or something... Hiding your eyes.
What does that say about you?
He also added a montage of pics which include MY LITTLE DOG (who hates him), among other pictures of "our" life where I am notably absent. Trying to sell himself as this vibrant, outdoorsy type. (Nope.)This is H's fantasy in his mind. Trying to paint a fake picture of himself trying to sell himself as the single (or widowed) Prince in Cinderella. Ha! So sad.
At which point, he'll be a 65+ year old paying alimony through the nose, a bum knee, a serious health condition, no one to "pet-sit" for him anymore and keep his house clean, and his "Daddy Warbucks" persona won't last much beyond that.
He'll have more debt than he can pay off with what he'll have left in our 50/50 split of our IRA/401K.At some deep, sub-conscious level H knows this which makes me wonder if he's hanging on to you for this reason AT THIS TIME while he figures out his MLC chit. Doesn't want to lose you as his Plan B in his mind. Sick. I know, I know.
So far, no insight into what those "mystery appointments" have been. I see no credit card or bank charges... it's weird.
I imagine that one of these days something will come from the insurance company that will clarify things. Keep on with your uke outside on your porch during your famous Porch Parties...you'll find out soon enough.
Wonka,
I know who Wilbur is! ;0
Thanks for checking up on me and sharing your kooky wisdom.
I missed you too!
---GGG
you'll find out soon enough
Yep, you will. Everything comes out eventually.
AJ
GGG,
that he has a serious infection that can be transmitted sexually. All true.
If you ever R with H, how do you plan to address that ^^??
I had a marriage counselor justify my H's cheating by saying that to me. He was getting his needs met. I was livid.
No. An affair is emotional abuse. Period.
We all go with unmet needs from time-to-time. That's marriage...kids, bills, jobs, etc...
If he was unhappy in the marriage, then he coulda gotten OUT of the marriage and THEN found another mate. He didn't. He chose to disrespect me and dishonor our children by cheating while still within the bounds of marriage.
Sorry, this really gets me going. It's like blaming a rape victim.
It's emotionally abusive to cheat on your spouse. It just is. It's abandoning a relationship and partner BEFORE you give them any chance to mend what's wrong.
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!! Thank you! That is such a friggin cop-out to say needs weren't met. Well, WTF! I still don't know what needs I wasn't meeting, so how could I have possibly have met them?! I worked 2 jobs, was grieving my nephew's death, dealing with my mom's breast cancer, work was extremely stressful, 2 kids, a house with major renovations, rental properties to run (along with redoing one), and a flood to clean up after. Sorry- was running on survival at the time. Thought we were in it together. Apparently I didn't give enough... what about my needs? I didn't need anyone to show me special attention during this time. I didn't look elsewhere to feel better about myself. And for someone to make themselves available to a married man during that time- f her too!
Whew... that felt good. Thanks, Heather.
Sorry for the hijack, GGG.
No, Mighty, that's perfectly alright.
I am guilty of that, more than once, and a lot longer too!
Sometimes it's hard to find the right post, cut and paste, and repost it in the "right" place!
---GGG
As for his "infection", Wonka, he has Hepatitis C.We found out a few years ago and although it is something he's probably had for many years since his "wild and crazy 20's" back in the '70's, I was tested and I was negative, which was a relief.
Since then we were very careful, although it is not usually easily transmitted through your--ahem--"basic" heterosexual contact.
Your non-basic though, there's the issue, and that would be his all-the-time preference, if you know what I mean. And OW did whatever he wanted, so....you fill in the blanks. It's amazing what people will do when they want to "be loved".
Not that I'm your "plain vanilla" gal, it's just that with her, it was ALL KINK ALL THE TIME.
(How perfect--just the pornified way he likes it, because "REAL" ML is no longer interesting to him. So he's said.)
They were SOOOOOO sexually compatible because she "Liked it SOOOOO much!!' (Just like all the women in porn! They LOVE every minute of it!!!!)
Yep. No doubt.
But I prefer my kink on the as the topping of the very delectable, imported, heavy cream, all-natural vanilla sundae.
Not long after we found out he had it, he basically stopped touching me anyway, so that was the ultimate "safe sex"!!!---------------------------------------
I know for a fact that with OW he did not tell her so she could make that decision, and he finally admitted that he lied, that he only used condoms in the beginning.
OK, no, he never used them at all!!!!!! Whoopsie!!!
Oh, and she had a "Hep C" scare! I don't know what all that was about, but I guess she had a liver issue and he felt compelled at that point to tell her about his "condition".
And THIS is why I believe she dumped him and he bought her a coat.
He felt guilty==because prior to this it was sex toys.
I saw the sudden and complete drop off in phone calls/texts the week before I found out, which corresponded completely with him being incredibly weird, nasty to me, and buying her a coat.
Not that he ever admitted that she dumped him, he let me believe he "ended it honorably" when I demanded it.
---------------------------------------------
So for us: He is supposed to get treatment for this and it is curable, to the point where it is no longer an issue. And I wouldn't let him touch me at all without a repeat of the full battery of STD tests, condoms, and a promise to finally get treatment.
He has found lots of reasons not to pursue it.
Mostly because it's like chemo and will sap his energy for about a year, but it doesn't mean he'll be unable to have a life!
He just can't stand to be in his own skin, and the idea of not being able to be constantly in motion, or---God forbid---have to lean on me, well, that makes it a no-go for him.
Likewise the knee surgery he's been putting off for several years as well.
He is essentially ignoring that he even has it, drinking like a fish, and no doubt planning to have unprotected sex with anyone else who lines up.
I'm not even sure he couldn't be sued for that!
He says he's doing "great", no problems... well, I know that that's how it goes, until there is a tipping point and then it's liver failure.
Not to mention that OW could give HIM an STD, AIDS, I mean, come on!!
This is life and death now.
If he comes home with Herpes or something, we are DONE.
It's almost as if he's pretending he doesn't have this.
Or that he doesn't care who he might infect.
It's all fantasy land. It makes me sick and it worries me.-------------------------------
Hep C is the major reason why I called the co-worker I saw him starting up the late night texts with.
I didn't tell her Hep C because that's his private info, but I did say that he had a "condition/STD"... And IF she spoke to OW, then Hep C probably came up.
----------------------------
Thinking back, I think his diagnosis was at the very start of his MLC.
(Talk about your mortality check!)
Then his best friend of 40 years had a massive stroke and is permanently disabled. That totally freaked him out and I think that was the "REAL" game kick-off.
That was about the time he turned 60... got that red MG convertible, got to the point where he couldn't run anymore because of the knee... and then I started going through menopause and didn't feel like being his sex toy any more.
BAM!!!! Here came the roller coaster!!!!!--------------------------
This is why when I look five years down the road, thinking about the REALITY of his situation, it seems I'm the only one who sees the truth.
That he won't have me around to facilitate him being out and having this fabulous single life. If I'm not here, he will have so many responsibilities that he will be hard pressed to get to work and home on time, forget "dating".
No woman in her right mind would consider living in this house or even staying here. It's total chaos and when he started flipping out, he totally dropped the ball on this whole house remodel. The place is gutted, no walls, no outlets, exposed insulation, wiring... add in a bunch of dogs, a few older ones who are semi-incontinent, a bunch of farm animals and no help....
Then a bum knee, pending retirement with very little money saved, Hep C, what is developing into an alcohol problem, ED, a sweet wife who he treated like a disposable diaper, intimacy and attachment issues, and a serious porn addiction.
He'll be paying at least 50% of his income TO ME, and half of everything is mine. And that's just the baseline. He is so screwed--yet in his mind, he's going to have all his income, a built-in maid/petsitter, and OW and Porn too!Yes--he's the total package, if you ask me!
So when I look down the road, I see being more of a nurse to this much older man who has treated me so poorly.
Why the heck would I want that?
So much easier for me to walk away....And I'm starting to think that's the better option. And, for the record, his "picture" of our future when he said he wanted to be divorced, was that:
I would live nearby (if not conveniently in the same house, no doubt so I could continue my duties as I am "paid" to do them now),
so we wouldn't have to re-home any of the animals,
I could help with the remodel,
we could take care of each other if we got sick,
IF we got "old"....
Well, sorry. To me that sounds like MARRIAGE. ----------------------------------------------------
I think he wants all that--but with absolutely no responsibility to change, be honest, be faithful, to take care of himself and get treatment for his issues because that's his responsibility TO ME and TO THE RELATIONSHIP.
He wants to be able to trot me out in public, but then continue to do sordid things in private which are "none of 'my' business".
That's HIS plan, he's said as much.
And he's p*ssed that I'm not on board and planning instead to leave here and never speak to him again.
I am going to clarify that for him the next time he mentions divorce, because I believe he doesn't think I'm serious.
He needs to know that once all is settled, I will not ever see or speak to him again. No Christmas cards, no Happy Birthday, no nothing.
If he's sick...well then he can call OW or anybody else.
I will be out of his life totally.
And I mean that with every fiber of my being.
I will not waver on it either.He needs a refresher on this when the time is right.I think that'll be my next "Truth Dart". Along with one about safe sex!!!! And with that, HAVE A FABULOUS DAY, FELLOW DBERS!!!!
---GGG
And for the record, he might not be much of a catch these days, but i sure am!
I am without a doubt, the spouse he would be a fool to leave.
We'll see how much of a fool he's going to turn out to be.
Or how much of a fool I might be for even considering staying with this man, whoever he is now.
------------------
I'm cooking up some fresh agar for my petrie dishes this morning; time to set up a few new experimental challenges!
GUBU is getting tired, but he's still moving around quite a bit. Seems there's a bit of fight left in the old thing yet....
---GGG
GG, this is the truth - a good friend of mine whose h had a MLC and went off with a bi-sexual drug addict who was into kinky sex. Oh and she had a number of stds + HepC which this guy transmitted to his unsuspecting wife (my friend). Which is how she found out . . . .
Anyway after the affair couple finally broke up, it transpired that soon after he left my friend and moved in with this OW they stopped having sex at all!!! He then moved on to OW2 who he married (but he cheats on her, apparently, with his yoga teacher).
It is like a bad soap opera.
Beatrice,
Great. And here I was just getting breakfast down!!
What the heck are they thinking?
Doesn't ANYBODY else matter?
Are we just DISPOSABLE?
(Hopefully, we're also RECYCLABLE
)
Yes, yes. I know.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THEM.No, they don't think about it.
No, they don't care.
Yes, to them we are disposable, and if we haven't decomposed in the interim, they can dig us out of the trash and see if we're still serviceable when they need us....
They really are like teenagers.
They're never going to get old.
They can't be hurt, they're invincible, they're never even going to LOOK old.
That only happens to "other people".
Like THEIR SPOUSES.
Yikes.
---GGG
h had a MLC and went off with a bi-sexual drug addict who was into kinky sex. Oh and she had a number of stds + HepC which this guy transmitted to his unsuspecting wife (my friend). Which is how she found out . . . .
Anyway after the affair couple finally broke up, it transpired that soon after he left my friend and moved in with this OW they stopped having sex at all!!! He then moved on to OW2 who he married (but he cheats on her, apparently, with his yoga teacher).
You really can't make this stuff up. It's surreal.
And I know it's pointless to ponder...But I often get the distinct impression that, on some level, he wants me to SUFFER.Even he admits I have done nothing terrible in our M, (after he gave up the too many toiletries/canvas shopping bags/dishwashing detergent tactic).
He KNOWS he is doing things, has done things, which are incredibly hurtful.
I don't think his main goal is to hurt me, I'm just collateral damage.
But then there's this nasty thing where it seems he really wants to hurt me in retaliation for something.
And at those times, he doesn't apologize for being nasty, whereas at other times he later says he's sorry for this or that thing he said/did.
-----------------------------------
Believe me, I am giving this guy NO AMMO WHATSOEVER.
So what is driving this I guess is just his anger that things are not panning out for him as he'd hoped.
I kicked him out, and I KNOW he's mad about that.
There isn't a long line of "Kitty" lining up to fill his bed at his friend's house.
His wife is looking hot and moving on, and meanwhile, having a great time!
He's stuck between a rock and a hard place with no idea how to get out.
So he figures he'll just try and find a replacement for said wife... or something.
And it's not working out too well.
So I guess I answered my own question, not that it makes it any easier to tolerate.
I know it's not about me, it's him, but still. Cheez....
----------------------------------
The ONLY thing I'm doing is GALing, being happy, upbeat, looking great, being friendly, 180ing, and generally DBing.
I know Wonka said that this makes them MAD.
I guess that's true. But I am a sensitive person and it does hurt me when he lashes out when I've done nothing.
It's hard not to defend myself, but I just STFU...STFU...STFU... and I don't engage. I just let him fizzle out on his own.
But it stings sometimes.
My plan is to "Kill Him with Kindness".I wonder how long that will take.
Do you think they could pinpoint it as a cause of death on an autopsy?
OK... I'm getting morbid now...!
-------------------------------
Time to go clear brush and get all scratched up in the brambles. Add in all the mosquito bites and I'm looking like someone used me for a pincushion.
That's really messing with my bare legs/short skirt plan/sleeveless top for the weekend, but so it goes!
Do you think a spray tan will cover that up? ---GGG
OK, where do all these guys/gals who do this stuff finding all these broken people who actually are willing to have R's with them? I mean we all know how hard it is to live with someone having an MLC. How do they find college girls, kinky women, yoga instructors, etc. who actually WANT them in their lives? Can they really fake being THAT charming when they can't even seem to not drop their food wrappers on the floor when they're around the LBS? Are there really that many broken people in the world who are so desperate that they will debase themselves for someone who is already married a lot of the time, who can't think of anyone but themself and have so much baggage?
My God, what is this world becoming?
But I often get the distinct impression that, on some level, he wants me to SUFFER.
Yes, I think that too. Can't decide if I am imagining it, but think I am not.
Matt,
There are many desperate, damaged, broken peeps in the world. I doubt it's charm, although it's attention that attracts these folks along with equal desperation. And when I say desperate, I don't mean hese folks have no redeeming qualities. I just mean they have a booty load of issues. Kind of like when people say affair down, the person could be a neurosurgeon that serves on a charity feeding hungry children. Doesn't mean they aren't a trainwreck. Just my 2cents.
Matt---my thoughts EXACTLY!
I keep thinking he won't meet anybody decent with whom he's compatible.
Then I realize, that's NOT what he's looking for.
He thinks he is, but he's really just looking for ANYONE who will make him feel better.
And that person can be anyone/anything...as long as they're available and WILLING.
That's pretty much all he's after at the moment.
If he wanted a good person, a good match, someone honest, loving, fun, smart...all the rest, the whole package--well, here I am!
Nope. That's "not attractive".
So yes, I think there ARE a lot of people out there who are so lonely and needy that they'll settle for whatever crumbs these people hand out.
And let's not forget, our MLCers are playing a role in these OP relationships.
They are painting a picture of themselves---and us---that is far from reality.
They're actors, acting out the MLC script we all know so well.
They just believe it's REAL.
And unfortunately, so do the OPs. They don't know that our S's are crazy and treating us like dirt.
They believe the stories about how awful we are, how they're trapped in a loveless marriage... the whole thing.
I have a casual friend who has been the OW several times. (I THINK I may have reformed her, but perhaps not.)
She gave me the whole line on this man and that:
"Oh--this guy's wife was horrible, denied him sex, blah blah..."
"This one's wife is mentally ill and he just couldn't take it anymore..."
"This guy was just so unhappy, he married the wrong person, he just didn't know it until he met me..."
I told her: THEY LIE!
It was like a shock to her system.
No, they only lie to their wives, not to MOI!!!!
I said, "My husband told his OW basically all the things you just said. Now, you know me. Do you REALLY think I would have stayed with a man almost 30 years if we had a loveless, horrible marriage? And am I really so old and ugly and (take my word for it) frigid and sexless that he'd have to look elsewhere?"
She looked as though she'd taken a mistaken hit from her STFU bottle.
In a word, the lighbulb came on and she was speechless.
Oh, and yes. She is also lonely, needy, a little "odd", overweight, with some serious baggage, not much of a judge of character and willing to take what she can get, and sleep with guys she hardly knows on the first date, thinking that's the way to their hearts.
So there you go. Classic OW material.
---GGG
Can they really fake being THAT charming when they can't even seem to not drop their food wrappers on the floor when they're around the LBS?
Yes, I think they CAN fake it BRIEFLY...Not so much with people who REALLY know them though...hence, the whole new crowd to hang in.
Are there really that many broken people in the world who are so desperate that they will debase themselves for someone who is already married a lot of the time, who can't think of anyone but themself and have so much baggage?
Yeppers. Yeppity, Yes, YEP!! Sadly, there are many, many broken people in the world. What was the Beatles' song about all the lonely people in the world??? Ding! Lots of broken, wounded, abandoned, desperate people in the world...all looking to fit somewhere...no matter the price to their soul. Like attracts like.
And, my personal response to all this brokenness??? Welcome to the Army of Goodness and Light. WE have been saddled with marching forward and showing the way through the path of destruction...especially for the children of abandonment.
Heavy shid. God must think we are up to the challenge.
Georgiabelle,
"Neurosurgeon Trainwreck". CHECK!!!!
I know plenty of folks who come off as accomplished and together. But they're not when you get to know them.
Yes, they have some redeeming qualities, we all do, but IN THE R WITH OUR S's they are settling for something pretty messed up.
I don't think anyone who's got their chit together would get involved with our MLC spouses. Or anybody's spouse!
I wouldn't!
Which is one reason why I hate the terms "affair" and "mistress".
They imply glamour, beauty, scintillating sexuality, excitement, and a sort of class to the whole thing.
So "romantic".
But the reality is so far from that.
So I prefer:
Cheating
Adultery
Betrayal
Infidelity
As I recently read,
"Adultery is not something that occurs between two consenting adults. It's something a married person does to his/her spouse and family."
Hallelujah and pass the STFU juice....
---GGG
And yes, Lois,
You are so right.
GUBU is holding it together rather well at work, so I'm told.
He goes out with his (subordinate) co-workers about once a week now.
(Well, actually, he's taking them out and buying them rounds... can you say "Buying attention"????)
He has no life outside of that, I think because he's not comfortable if he's not the BOSS and the top dog.
But with these employees, he can "play' at being all together, on top of his game, Mr. Moneybags, buying drinks for his (female) staffers.
Yup.
He's playing "pretend". Meanwhile, here's me who knows most of his dirty little secrets now, and really nobody else does....
Except I bet former OW has a few stories of her own to share.
One reason why he probably did quit that when it was done.
He can't be around someone who doesn't think he's perfect, and I know she sure doesn't.
Not anymore, anyway!
--GGG
PS: Thanks a lot for stopping by! I guess I was getting a little lonely. Yes, that does happen to me from time to time.
Beatrice,
I think there is that desire to inflict pain so they're not the only one "suffering".
Sad, but true.
---GGG
PS: Thanks a lot for stopping by! I guess I was getting a little lonely. Yes, that does happen to me from time to time.
There's always company to be had here. :-)
I know goats can be fair weather friends.
Heather,
My goats are wannabe Lap Goats. But they can't really carry on a conversation.
Well, they CAN, it's just the same thing over and over... MwaaaahhhhhH!!!!!!
"I WANT!!!!!" (Love, attention, food, this food, not that food....)
---GGG
But I often get the distinct impression that, on some level, he wants me to SUFFER.
Yes, I think that too. Can't decide if I am imagining it, but think I am not.
Yup! I feel the same way. I feel like he has tried to make my life as difficult as possible without having to put much effort into it himself. He just wants to be difficult when the opportunity is easy.
And I have to vent a bit.
I just got an email from our health insurance company saying that the password to log onto our online access portal was changed.
My guess is that GUBU, in his infinite wisdom, has decided he needs to prevent me from seeing what he might be up to medically/psychologically.
WHY????
Why does he do this? Why does he HIDE things from me all the time?
Why does he keep lying by omission?
Don't I have some little right to know if he's ill, if he's getting treatment for the elephant in the living room... I am really so much the enemy?
Doesn't he think it's relevant?
Why so much secrecy?
No need to answer, I know, I know. It just stinks.
------------------------
I think it's all the lying and hiding that gets me more than anything else.
I feel like having a cry now...
I just don't understand sometimes.
I try not to let it get to me but...
He's probably re-routing the insurance info to work or his friend's house to ACTIVELY HIDE whatever it is FROM ME.
I'm his WIFE.
I really feel like puking again.
------------------------
And he's clearly still REALLY pissed about me simply saying that Tuesday is "my open mic night".
He hasn't said a peep since his last nasty text yesterday at five.
He would usually ask if the tree guys were here working... but--crickets.
It's funny because I didn't ask him to explain his absence, just said that I had plans, and he got all belligerent about my response.
Hey, how am I supposed to know that he's not out chasing young employees and embarrassing himself further and THAT's the reason he's "not going to be there". After all, without giving a reason, isn't that what he's implying?
That HE can go and HAVE FUN TOO!!!
"Nanna-nanna boo boo, stick your head in you-know-what!!!"
Anyhow, I'm not going to "cover" for him so he can skip out in an effort to troll for OW, while dumping the work on me.
No doubt this is part of what is p*ssing him off.
---------------------
Vets,
I could really use some advice about how to establish this boundary without tipping my hand, creating more tension, or coming off as suspicious and demanding.
I will gladly cover for work stuff, of course I will!
But I won't be taken for granted and dumped on so he can go on "dates", lying to other women about his readiness for a "serious relationship."
That's more than I can take.
But I want to be cooperative, supportive, nonjudgmental....
If I say it's gotta be "work" then he'll just lie to me anyway.
I guess what I "want" is for him to give me a REASON why he won't be here.
Just saying "I won't be there" isn't good enough.
But he knows I'm here--it's not like I can just walk out on all these animals and leave them to fend for themselves. Not in good conscience.
And he knows that.
I am SO SICK OF THIS GAME-PLAYING with him.
He tries to get my goat (!!!), push my buttons, lie and hide and sneak around....
-------------
Oh, and BTW, the other thing that popped up on Linkedin the other day was a woman's name who we'd had a big fight about months ago.
He had a pink piece of paper hidden in his truck with her name, email, phone number, and "create password"... the handwriting looked like a a very young woman.
I was thinking it was some online sex thing... from someone he met.
He was very snarky when I confronted him, sneering at me, saying:
"I have NO IDEA who that is..." Smirk, smirk.
Well, she popped up with a picture.
Turns out she's the matronly gal who runs their security service for when the alarm goes off.
And he WANTED me to think it was some "Babe", that he had so many he couldn't remember or something.
Just lies. Secrets and lies.
I am so over it.
---GGG
Classic trait of the alcoholic...
I, being the crazee person/MLC-er, set YOU up (being the loved one) by doing despicable things until YOU snap and act insane yourself...VOILA!! Then, I have my justification for my behavior. SEE!!!! You ARE crazeeeeeeee. I have every reason to drink, sleep around, act the cad, etc...
Lois,
I'm not giving him the ammo to use against me.
I'm sticking with my plan and drinking a nice tall glass of STFU juice.
I just wish it had more of a kick!
------------------
I have thought about maybe saying something like: "I've been a bit worried about all these "appointments" you've had lately.
You don't need to give me any details if you don't want to, but I just wanted to make sure it's nothing serious and that you're OK..."
Something like that.
Give him a bit of an opening.
----------------------------------
Meanwhile, this is a pretty typical pattern.
We actually had a nice weekend, spend quite a bit of time together, got a lot done with no fighting, actually working together as a team. (GO ME!!!)
Now I guess he needs to remind himself how much he hates me, how it's ME that's the problem.
Cue the suspicion, the putting words into my mouth.
He acts like I said or did something to upset him.
-------------------------------------
I guess he's got to create distance and tension now because--GASP!--- he might have actually enjoyed spending some time with me.
He liked the things I've done for him and around the house.
I've been killing him with kindness, looking great, being very cool, happy, listening and validating.
Keeping everything nice, doing nice things, not really FOR him, but which benefit him and make his life easier.
(No expectations, just being kind as usual.)
He's really got NOTHING TO PIN ON ME, nothing to complain about!
So somewhere in his Amoeba brain the little cells (neurons... wait, no, amoebas don't have brains, which is kind of appropriate, dontcha think?)
..let's just say:
In his squirmy Amoeba cellular mass, there is a process occurring. GUBU has been used to moving away from unpleasant stimulus. (ME).
Now he is reflexively moving away, although the stimulus has gone.
So he doesn't know which direction to go now.
Could it be that I am now offering a POSITIVE STIMULUS?
Yes, indeed I am!
So the need to locomote in the opposite direction is now a cheeseless tunnel...
(Yeah, I know. Amoebas don't eat cheese, either.)
Yet, GUBU is
still CONDITIONED to MOVE AWAY from contact with me.
So move away he does.
It's merely a reflex, a carryover from earlier stimulus response interactions.
It feels right---so GUBU continues to do this.
-----------------------
I submit that eventually, this behavior will be extinguished if conditions remain favorable. And that GUBU will eventually be reconditioned to move towards "ME".
If not, I think a bit of electric current applied to the opposite side of the Petrie dish might be called for...
---GGGWho has to go back to cutting brush in the hot sun, Y'all. Check ya later!!!
GGG, I’ve been really enjoying your updates this morning (afternoon by now.) A lot of it could have been written about my H. The part about the “new” fantasy life.
My H is still looking for that “perfect” partner. He almost found one 4 months after BD. It was our mutual friend’s cousin who was visiting her. It was at our vacation home place. I don’t what H was thinking at the time about how it would work out. I’m still puzzled. She is Mexican, doesn’t have US visa, she is a lot younger (33 now), was never married before, lost her job right after she went back home.
They exchanged the e-mails for some time, but didn’t meet in person after that first encounter. I don’t think there was anything physical, just didn’t get to that point. Interesting thing was that H was not into her. In one of his e-mails he said that he wants to purse the relationship with her and see if they can develop some “chemistry”. I think the reason he picked her is that he thought she would do what he needs her to do, travel with him while he is working and live with him at the vacation home in his off time. All while still being married to me (he didn’t want to pursue the D at that time.) How was he going to bring her over? On a visa to “visit a married man and live with him”? Where would she work? What if she would get sick? Would she live in the vacation home with him while my stuff was still there and I would come to visit? I don’t think he was thinking about this at all. He just wanted a “new” life with a “new” person.
And just like you said, he is looking for ANYONE to make him feel better. And she was looking for a sugar daddy. Haha… My H? With no place to live that he can call his own, with seasonal job that is not guaranteed to bring steady income, with health issues, and yes, ED (but he thinks that it is not an issues, it was me who was to blame.) I guess when she realized that he is not what she thought he was, she dumped him.
Oh year, forgot to mention, he was telling her how wonderful it is to live in his camper when he travels for work. He even sent her the pictures of it.
GGG, I would ask him about the password for the insurance. If it is your policy too, you have the right to check it.
Maybe he needs some medical treatment now, since you’ve been slowly “killing him with kindness”. Or, like my H, start some “serious” treatment with Viagra. I think his Doc prescribed it to him in small dozes to prevent ED while looking for a new partner.
Yes, I'm venting today!
I feel like he's actually going to get even worse before he gets better.
He definitely cycles... there is a pattern, but in some ways he seems far, far worse than he was even back in late 2013.
At least then he was apologizing, seemed more vulnerable, more open to talking.
Ever since he filed for D, he's just sort of clammed up and on this path without a turn-off.
I guess for him to admit he'd been wrong in that course of action would be tantamount to admitting he's WEAK.
Instead of seeing that avoiding his problems is actually the weak way to go about it.
---------------------------------------
It seems like he's sharing less than ever, gives me no indication of what his plans are... whereas before he talked about moving into the basement, etc...
Now it's just like neither of us brings up ANYTHING about the R.
Which is fine by me, actually.
But he seems to have checked out on me even more...
I almost feel like he thinks the bar is set too high for him to ever reach.
So why even try?
I swear he was more open and supportive (though not exactly compassionate) when I was miserable and bawling my eyes out.
He saw me as vulnerable and maybe under those circumstances it was easier for him to open up more.
Now that I'm GALing, he seems to have resigned himself to the fact that I'm history.
?????????
It's hard to be vulnerable around someone who doesn't appear to have much weakness.
And I think that's how I'm coming across now.
So perhaps I should add a smidge of "vulnerability" to my Agar broth?
Not "helplessness", not "Doormat Clinger", just a bit of "I NEED YOU."
Just--a LITTLE bit.
Sometimes.
I wonder if that would help?
I'm a pretty confident cookie, very capable and independent.
I have the female version of the "Male Brain".
Pretty analytical, more logical than emotional...
But deep down, I'm ALL GIRL.
In contrast, his OW was needy, damaged, clingy.
And he is a self-described "Caretaking Type".
He needs to feel "needed". Hence all the rescue dogs I'm caring for now on my own!
S
o maybe a 180 for ME would be to ASK for help instead of DIY?Like the bike thing. That worked out really well.
I think hiring my farm boy might have the opposite effect at this point.
I think it would just make him angry, not the reaction I'm going for.
I think it's been made quite clear that I need not be lonely or would have trouble finding male companionship.
I have not rubbed his nose in it, but he knows that I've had "offers" over the years, long before this happened.
I'm sure he knows that those "offers" have been stepped up now.
This has got to be threatening to him.
----------------------------
You have to remember folks, I'm a bit of an oddball.You've got the ADD, the Aspergers... I'm a quirky mix.
I'm a very independent woman. I am happy on my own. I don't need much external validation. I can do pretty much anything I set my mind to.
I'm strong, bendable (Like GUMBY!), and I have an arsenal of coping skills I've had to learn over the years.
Even more now, thanks to this nice little experience!
Maybe that's---TOO MUCH????
Thoughts?
---GGG
Maybe I need to channel a bit more of my inner "Damsel in Distress".
Don't men LIKE that sort of thing?
Maybe they do, if they didn't CAUSE the distress!!!
GGG,
About the lockout from accessing YOUR own health insurance portal, I'd bring it up to H as in "H, I was trying to access the health insurance portal and was blocked from it due to an invalid password. Do you know anything about it?"
Sit back and listen.
All the rest of the stuff you asked about in your posts is all H's sandbox. Stay out of his sandbox. I know it is hard to do so when you are feeling itchy to find out exactly what's going on with H medical-wise.
So maybe a 180 for ME would be to ASK for help instead of DIY?
Like the bike thing. That worked out really well.
I would be very sparing with this since you don't want to come off as insincere with H. You could ask H to take a look at this and that...then see how it goes. No, you don't need to change anything you've been doing in DBing so far.
Yes, BrightFuture,
GUBU already got himself some Viagra. In bulk.
So I guess all those times he said his ED was because he "wasn't attracted to me" was a pile of ca-ca!
I don't think he has anyone to actually USE it with, I think it's more in his fantasy plan of when his dating situation improves to the degree that he has envisioned!
Or maybe he thinks he's going to use it with me some time.... NOT!!!!
And yes, no worries. I logged onto the insurance site and I can still access all MY info, but he has now blocked me from seeing his.
Gee---I wonder what is so embarrassing? I know about his dentist, his internist, orthopedic surgeon.
It's gotta be sexual/psychological. That's the only thing left! And the only thing he'd want to hide from me.
As job says and I think AJM too---
"In time, all will be revealed."
---GGG
Thanks, Wonka!
Good to feel you at my back there...
Obviously I am in DBing HyperDrive today.
I guess I was holding a lot inside and it is now exploding out onto the board!
I thought about what you suggested... And I think I WILL ask about it, once things calm down a little.
I SWEAR I can feel him being p*ssed at me from fifty miles away!
It's a bit of that psychic thing. It's just "in the air".
But you're right, as usual.
It's his sandbox but I'm getting really po'd at him making such a mess in it.
Plus he's tossing all the cat turds over into my box and it's starting to stink over here too!
---GGG
But he seems to have checked out on me even more...
I can say the same about my H.
I think your H is so confused. He thought that he had a plan, like you described earlier. He would live nearby, so you could still be there for him, if he needed, but he would have an OW who would make him happy, and everything would be peachy. I guess it is not working for him and he is realizing it. This is probably why he is angry. He is not ready to have you completely out of his life, so he is experimenting. And I think you might be right when you say that he painted himself into the corner and doesn’t know how to get out of it.
I agree with Wonka, you’ve doing DB perfectly.
Well, I must be doing something right.After almost 24 hours with no comm from him--
(I will not initiate, especially after he was snippy with me, and I can hold out a LOT longer than he can!)-- I just got a flurry of texts from H.
(GUBU has vanished for the moment and H seems to be back. I guess I should enjoy it while this "personality" is "out".)
He says what time he's leaving work, what time he'll arrive, asks if the tree guys came.
(They did NOT, to which he responded
"j*rkoffs!" so there's a bit of that nasty. He loves to cut other people down these days)
I respond all happy and funny, just upbeat, not mad at him.
He then volunteers that he has a specific event on Friday and has to be there later than he'd said because this specific co-worker is on vacation.
(Easily checked, I know her. Not that I would need to, but he knows I can find out if he's lying.)
He was going to come home early to cover for me so I can go to a weekend dance/music jam with friends in DC.
So--he's essentially saying:
"Sorry, I'll be late, Here's why and it can't be helped."
That's all I'm asking for and I got it. I did NOT let him bait me when he got irritable. Yay, me!
Positive reinforcement from me--I mean "Stimulus" :"No problem at all, I can leave later and I'll take care of everybody."(Note: I did NOT say, "Thanks for letting me know you're not out chasing women and telling them you're single..."!)
Rapid response and to the point.
No--he didn't push my buttons yesterday....nooooooooooo........
Nothing gets to GGG! Only you DBers know the TRUTH!
I'm glad to see that you didn't take the bait of getting into a heated discussion w/him. Sometimes we just have to put it out there in a very nice and civil manner to get the answers we need.
BTW, it's time for you to think about a new thread. You've over shot the 100 posting requirement and your thread will probably be locked in the near future.
Hang in there!
I am going to clarify that for him the next time he mentions divorce, because I believe he doesn't think I'm serious.
He needs to know that once all is settled, I will not ever see or speak to him again. No Christmas cards, no Happy Birthday, no nothing.
If he's sick...well then he can call OW or anybody else.
I will be out of his life totally.
And I mean that with every fiber of my being.
I will not waver on it either.
He needs a refresher on this when the time is right.I think that'll be my next "Truth Dart". Along with one about safe sex!!!!
And with that, HAVE A FABULOUS DAY, FELLOW DBERS!!!!
---GGG
GoatGal
I have been just catching up on your posts,
TRYING to read - THROUGH the tears in my eyes from the laughter!!
Anyway, it's funny re: above Q. - I feel the same. Too many MLCers
want THEIR plan, with a '
tiny, little disclaimer' hidden in there ...
And that it, that IF things don't go according to 'the plan' re: OW/OM, or sickness/health issues, then 'we, the LBS can come out to play' ...
Well, I don't think so! You're (mlcer) on your own!
Keep dancing! p.
OK, where do all these guys/gals who do this stuff finding all these broken people who actually are willing to have R's with them? I mean we all know how hard it is to live with someone having an MLC. How do they find college girls, kinky women, yoga instructors, etc. who actually WANT them in their lives? Can they really fake being THAT charming when they can't even seem to not drop their food wrappers on the floor when they're around the LBS? Are there really that many broken people in the world who are so desperate that they will debase themselves for someone who is already married a lot of the time, who can't think of anyone but themself and have so much baggage?
My God, what is this world becoming?
Hi Matt, how are you?
I think Georgiabelle is right, & I wonder if it's also ego? Just getting attention from someone 'new' when the MLCer is 'wild & ready' for the great, big, wonderful world out there! Whoa! What a life they expect away from us 'downer spouses'. Makes them feel young - they still have 'it' (whatever it is?!!) Attention from anyone giving them that much needed boost - & the
boost givers using up their
desperation fuel to fill their own needs. So sad.
I know you're about to get a new thread. But...
I'm glad to see that you didn't take the bait of getting into a heated discussion w/him. Sometimes we just have to put it out there in a very nice and civil manner to get the answers we need.
The further I am away from this, the more I have seen it. The sooner you stop participating, the sooner that all stops. I mean, they don't, but it stops bothering you and dies on the vine.
They do seem to want to drag you into a fight. Not sure why, but it is what it is. The sooner you stop allowing that, the sooner it stops. Just so you know
In my case, it hasn't yet. But it's close. She's instead getting her H to pick up the fight and her daughter. But that will die down as well - just a matter of time and me not responding. It's the same for you; stop responding and you starve that fire.
AJ
Matt,
Just rereading your post makes me literally laugh outloud.
Are there really that many broken people in the world who are so desperate that they will debase themselves for someone who is already married a lot of the time, who can't think of anyone but themself and have so much baggage?
Yes.
One of the things about a MLCr - they can be incredibly charming and manipulative to get what THEY want. Selfishness is a big part and they will stop at nothing to get what THEY want.
And yes, there are that many broken people that will gladly get into a relationship with a MLCr or a narcissistic person. Think about how somebody would get involved with a married person in the first place. There's already something wrong with them. Add to that the stress and pressure to live up to the former spouse (over time; at first they hear the lies and WANT to believe them). Add more stress to remain that person that "saves" them from the "evil" former spouse. Add to that the part where the former spouse is rarely (in these cases) the "evil" person they make them out to be. Add to that the stress of kids and, ick, responsibility. Add to that the stress for the MLCr to keep the illusion of what they said is the truth.
It's a tough row to hoe. But likely intoxicating for the unsuspecting or gullible person that is so broken they want to believe that and get mixed up in it.
One of the many advantages of the LBS is we know better after the initial shock wears off.
Personally, I wouldn't trade places with either the MLCr or the person who is aiding and abetting the fantasy world. That can be a long way to fall and the MLCr will take anybody and everybody near them with them when they do.
What you saw and see is just the tip of the iceberg in most cases. There's more.
AJ