Opps, my thread locked before I was able to reply.
Here is the link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2448851&page=11This is how I feel these days:
“Yesterday my life was in ruins
Now today I know what I'm doing
Got a feeling I should be doing all right
Doing all right
Where will I be this time tomorrow?
Chasing joy or drinking in sorrow
Anyway I should be doing all right
Doing all right
Simply waiting for the sign
Waiting here to find the words to say
Sitting waiting all this time here
All the time you're away
Sitting waiting for the sign
And anyway I got so far
Yesterday my life was in ruins
Now today I've learned what I'm doing
Anyway I should be doing all right
Doing all right”
I think I’m doing all right. Slowly moving towards the acceptance.
Bringing this from my previous thread:
Bright, I do believe there are degrees of MLC. If they do a lot of damage it is harder for them to return - assuming they want to. It really is a question of letting go, and being as pleasant as possible while setting boundaries.
I don’t know degree of MLC my H is in. I think it is very hard on the inside for him, but he is not a mean MLCer and tries to maintain good appearance.
Someone once said it is a fine line between being a b*tch and a doormat.
So true! Sometimes I feel like a doormat for allowing H to kind of cake eating. And then when I think to set the boundaries, I feel like a b*tch.
I think we get to the point when we ask ourselves, would I want this person back in my life? The power is with us - when we are abandoned it feels as if that person takes the power away with them, and gradually as we work on ourselves we start to believe in ourselves again.
For a long time we see ourselves through the eyes of the abandoner, as worthless, but they are wrong, not us. We are people of worth, and they are the ones with problems. Actually internalising this takes a lot of time and work, Easy to say, much harder to do.
I think I’m still in denial thinking that H is still that kind and loving guy he once was. With him being so far away, it is hard to picture him as a troubled man in crisis. I cannot say that I don’t believe in myself. I don’t need H, I can handle almost everything on my own. It was nice to have him doing house projects and taking care of some other things though. And I would love to have all this along with the companionship and friendship we used to have.
Maybe it is finally clicking that I’m not the cause of his unhappiness.
Even if it is, it's not very likely he'll tell you about it for a very long time. But Bea is right - when we're first wounded we put all the power in their hands and hope (reasonably at first) that they will make amends. When they don't, we get hurt more deeply. And we feel like the reasons they spew are true....until we realize they are not (in many cases) true.
It's gradual to be sure, but it gets faster.
Keep sifting through...
Thanks, AJ. H is very stubborn man. Even if he regrets his decision by now, it is very unlikely that he will admit that he was wrong. And even if he admits it, his first words after that would be “Oh well, there is no going back.” He will probably need to hit the rock bottom in order for him to change his mind.
Matt, thanks for stopping by. I’ve been following your updates, just don’t have much time to post. I think the reality will be setting in for you W now, since she moved out. It might take some time though.
Short update. H texted me two days ago asking to send him a company file. I was already driving to work, so I told him that I would do it in the evening.
Yesterday I came home and had a couple of glasses of wine, then I sent a company file to H. In my e-mail I wrote that I don’t get the paper bank statements anymore. I used to print them from online account and reconcile. Now, I don’t even print them, I just save them to my computer. I told him that I do it every 3 months or so, so it is not a big deal (I like to keep an eye on the business, especially now, when I’m not involved much.) But, if he still wants to reconcile them on his own, I can send him the online login info (I’m giving up the control! Good girl! Can pat myself on the back.)
Today, I received a text from him telling me that he transferred money for the condo mortgage. No word about the statements. No reply on e-mail either. Is he thinking it through? Don’t know what to make of this. Just interesting. I totally anticipated him to take over this. Will see what happens.
Bright,
I wouldn't assume anything when it comes to the MLCer and what they are or are not thinking. He may have skimmed the email and completely forgot about responding to your offer of sending him the online login info or he was focused entirely on the condo payment and the company file.
Right now, your h can only handle one mental task at a time. I would wait a while and if the time should arise that you need to be in touch w/him again, raise the issue. If you don't get a response the second time, well then, you'll have to let the matter sit until he focuses on that particular matter.
How is the job coming along?
Thanks, Job. I don’t think H forgot about replying to me. I think he is just sitting on it, thinking. Either he is not sure what he wants to do or he is fine with me taking care of the statements. I am fine too, I don’t want to raise an issue. If he doesn’t respond, I will just continue doing it. It is still a joint business, so it is more for me to be aware of what’s going on with accounts. I do still have a small amount of my money there. I was just surprised he didn’t jump on the offer. I thought he wants to completely take the matters in his hands and slowly push me out.
Thanks for asking about my job. It is going good, actually very good. I’m still learning about the business, but I’m getting more confident every day. My manager talked to me today and gave me praise, again. They are very pleased with the work I’m doing and with my overall responsiveness and good attitude. I don’t do the politics and I treat people with respect. I don’t get upset about stuff not going well or somebody not doing their work. I don’t gossip. I validate. I smile. I always got along with people, but thanks to DB, I’m a lot better person overall and I can deal with issues and be patient and non-judgmental at the same time.
Went to a happy hours today with the IT group. Life is happening!
BF, I saw your note to Busting. I think about you often too. It's nice to have moved past my marital problems, but I miss you guys :-) Are you on the alt? Would love to connect! You probably read my book is out. Lots of work... Big hug!!
Tori, thanks for stopping by. I’m glad that you feel like you moved past your marital problems. I wish I could say the same. I’m not on alt. And I could not find your book. I wish there would be a way to figure it out. I would love to read it.
I hope nice things are happening in your life.
Just wanted to post this quote from one of the meditations I’m doing. This is something I need to reflect on later.
"Relationship means something complete, finished, closed. Love is never a relationship; love is relating. It is always a river, flowing, unending. Love knows no full stop; the honeymoon begins but never ends. It is not like a novel that starts at a certain point and ends at a certain point. It is an ongoing phenomenon. Lovers end, love continues. "
Well, find it very difficult to write lately. I just cannot formulate my thoughts, feel very tired all the time. I keep functioning at work to my surprise. And then I come home and crush. I’ve been processing my thoughts and feelings and I find that I’m starting to understand what H felt at certain times and why he said what he said and did what he did. Am I entering into my own MLC?
I have to travel for work in a couple of weeks. First I was excited about it. I used to travel a lot for work and it was something that I liked (in moderation though.) Then I realized that this upcoming trip is causing me some anxiety. I never liked the airport security, but I found my ways to deal with it and it was not a big deal. Now, I’m thinking about it as big stress factor. I’m sure I will be fine, just a few unpleasant moments. However, now I understand H.
He always hated flying, but had to do it for work and when we were going on vacations. He loved to visit different countries, so he was handling his dislike of flying just fine. Except after the new security measures were introduced (like full body scanners). I think it also coincided with the start of his MLC. So, I do understand that he didn’t want to fly home every 2-3 weeks anymore. Especially to the house he hated so much. And this is why he is looking for woman who would live with him in that state where he works and travel with him to Mexico for the winter. He just doesn’t want to sacrifice anything anymore and doing things he doesn’t want to do, like flying.
So, I guess this doesn’t make any hope possible. Even if he realizes he made a mistake by leaving me.
BF like you I have come to dislike flying more and more.
However, I do not think that disliking it would be the real explanatory factor in ending a marriage. There are strategies and good 'short' therapists who can help with this anxiety. That is, they focus on the emotions around the problem rather than doing full therapy, It's been around a while, and it isn't Cognitive Behavioural therapy
The fatigue is probably associated with the stress of dealing with MLC and a new job. Plus we are all getting older. My energy levels are definitely not what they were.
Even now I sometimes have to put myself back together again, and I know widows who have the same problem. We lost something pretty big in our lives.
I admire your understanding towards your h, but would suggest you do not go overboard on this one! It might explain but not really justify what he has done.
Bea, thank you for the kind words and support. I wonder if it is easier for the widows. I think that I had more energy and kept going when I had some hope for my M. I have very little of it left. I just feel like giving up.
It is not only the flying part that made H to decide to end the M. There was my contribution to the problems too. Plus, it is just the whole different life style that H wants now, that includes him not taking care of the house (he still has to take care of the condo though), not taking care of me (it requires some emotional involvement and some work), mot flying, not pretending to be a good guy, etc. He wants to live at the vacation home. He would love to do it full time, but he cannot, he has to make money to be there for a few months a year. But, these few months, he wants to be there 24/7. I don’t fit into this live anymore. I have to work too, and I’m far away from the retirement age.
What I don’t understand though is how he thinks he will be able to find a woman who would be willing to do this life style with him and be free to travel like that. At the same time, how is he going to support her? Does he expect her to find temp jobs? I can only think of one “profession” to be able to do this anywhere any time... A h@@ker…
And, forgot to mention. H doesn’t even like the word “therapy”. He would be adamantly against it. His Mom forced him into some kind of therapy when he was a teenager, claiming that he had a drug addiction (pot.) This was after his parent’s divorce. I always thought that it helped H to develop good coping skills and positive outlook about life. I always thought that he was a lot wiser than I am. Now I’m thinking that he was just pretending, maybe the therapy was not good for him at all. Maybe it even made more damage. IDK.
I wonder if being a good guy pre MLC is a coping strategy for some, just as drugs and drinking are for others.
They are wearing a mask to help them cope. My xh is adamantly against both therapy and anti depressants. He thinks they mess with your mind, and perhaps to someone whose self construct is fragile, it is a frightening prospect.
It sounds like your husband is running away from everything. Trying to find 'himself' whoever that person is. They just seem to no longer have what it takes to truly care about others. Loss of empathy, or whatever.
Yes, he would be against antidepressants too. But not against Viagra, LOL. Oh, it doesn’t mess up with his mind…
And I bet he is pretty much sure who he is. It is just people around him are not the right people sometimes. I would be the first one who is not right for him. I don’t know… It is just what it sounded like.
Still no contact from him. This has been unusual in the past 2 years for him to not find an excuse to contact me.
There are two wedding coming up in his family. Two nieces are getting married, one at the end of August and another one a couple of weeks later. Both wedding are in the same town. I am not invited to any of them, I didn’t actually expect it. The only thing that bothers me is that my son is not invited either. So much for the family… Well, he is not their blood, but he was friends with one of the H’s nephews when we lived in the same town. Plus H mentioned before that he wanted to give my son a family ring. Needless to mention that H raised my son since he was 8 and we changed my son’s last name to be the same as H’s (and my.) So, I’ve been quite pi$$ed thinking about the weddings lately. I don’t know if H is going. I’m very curious. I guess I will find out later (from my BIL.)
Your h has gone into his hole for a while. They do that. They remain silent for a long time and then one day, you'll either get a call, email or he shows up w/an excuse for something. I wouldn't be too concerned about his MIA status right now. It may be a good thing if he's actually working on himself.
I can understand why you would be a bit bothered/annoyed w/the fact that your son wasn't invited to the weddings. He's been part of the family for most of his life...but you don't know what they are thinking or feeling right now, nor do you know what your h has told them. At some point, you'll find out why he wasn't invited and whether or not your h attended.
How is the job coming along? Is it keeping you busy? What are your plans for the weekend?
Try to keep the focus on you and your son. The answers will come....
Thanks, job. You are always the one to ask me about my work and my life. I really appreciate it.
My work is keeping me super busy, I barely even have time to read the blogs any more. I try to stay updated on everyone’s sitch though. I feel like work is the only thing that keeps me sane these days. It takes my mind away from my sitch, and I’m really grateful for that. When I get home though, I’m back to state of nowhere. Yes, it does feel like I’m in some kind of other reality.
It is hard to have any plans for the weekend, because all I want to do is nothing. I went to my sister’s for dinner yesterday, I did some grocery shopping, and that is it. Oh, yeah, I cleaned up my closet. I have three bags of clothe to give away. This is good, I needed to do it for a long time. I could not make myself to wake up on time this morning to go for yoga. I feel totally drained. If not for my dog, I would not even get out of the house.
It is interesting you mentioned that H might be working on himself. I’ve been having these dreams recently with H in them, where I can actually see his face. And he is not happy. In all dreams he kind of sneaks in the house with one excuse or another. I don’t remember all the details, but in my last dream he came to the house and went to one of the rooms to sleep. It was not my house, it was some kind of hypothetical house, but I knew that we bought it together and he was familiar with it. I was having some company. He came and told me that he was going to one of the rooms. He looked sad and I smelt alcohol on him, but he didn’t appear drunk. Just very sad. I don’t know what inspired these dreams, maybe my reading about stages of MLC and some stories lately.
I feel that there is still a strong connection between us. I don’t know how to break it, and if I ever be able to do it. I need to move on. It cannot be like this for the rest of my life.
On another note, my friends from vacation home (mutual friends) keep calling me and e-mailing me. I think they feel that I’m distancing myself from them. I didn’t take the calls until today. There was a big storm over there and flash floods. My GF called me to inform me that my (our) condo didn’t have any damage. But a lot of other places got flooded or had roof leaks. I wonder if my friends called H too. They said in the past that they don’t get much contact with him while he is working.
I feel like I’m not living, I’m just surviving, working and maintaining the house, waiting for the better days… I don’t know what these better days look like, and I’m not sure if they ever come…
Sorry for the rant. This is the only place where I can do it. Everybody else seems to think either that I’m doing good and don’t need their help anymore, or they are tired of hearing this stuff. I get it. After 2 years of doing this, it sure sounds old. I’m just surprised that I’m not over this, still.
Dont be surprised that you are not over this yet. It has taken me almost 3 years. It will soon feel better but only if you allow it. Be kind to yourself.
BF - you are so hard on yourself - a new and demanding job and a relationship breakdown are a lot for anyone to deal with.
Sometimes we go into survival mode to keep going. You are still functioning, but need time to recover emotionally.
If it helps - the recent on-going legal action from my xh has really upset me, because I still do not like having to deal with the person he is.
I would suggest that you give yourself three months and then review the situation. Give yourself permission to do very little.
One view of dreaming is that we deal with stuff from our subconscious. Dreaming is a healthy thing to do.
I felt the strong connection for some time, and in fact I think it is still there, unfortunately. I remember thinking about him a few weeks back, and I suddenly realised he was going to call me - and sure enough he did.
Bright,
Bea is right. You are very hard on yourself. You are under a lot of stress, i.e., new job and your marriage is in limbo. Those two things will take the air out of your balloon very quickly, especially if you are trying to put on a happy face each and every day you are at work.
Give yourself permission to take a break when you are home. There's nothing that says you have to do things each and every free moment you are home. Don't sweat the small stuff and learn to take some time out just for you and you alone.
I'm glad your condo was okay and nothing was damaged. One less concern for you.
Take care of yourself.
Bright,
I'm sorry you are feeling a bit down.
Be kind to yourself.
In the grief work I've been doing, I've learned that it's normal to cycle through this grief over and over...AND, when we are abandoned/rejected, all previous hurts from earlier rejections rise to the surface. I'm trying to see it as an opportunity to deal with issues I had previously buried.
But, the bottom line is...this is a process, a lengthy one and it will take as long as it takes. :-)
I have the same timeline as you and I'm still working hard to put one foot in front of the other. You're not alone.
Thanks everyone for your support. I fell asleep on the couch last night. Woke up at 5 am, when it was time to get up for work. I almost cried, because I had absolutely no energy to get ready for work. I e-mailed work and told them that I will be working from home today. They are ok with that.
Rick, good to know that this ends at some point. At least gets a lot easier.
Bea, no doubt your H has a strong connection to you. It is just so unfortunate that he keeps doing these hurtful things to you, like pursuing the legal action.
Job, this is the thing, that I only have to take care of myself and my dog. I should be able to do whatever I want, but I just don’t feel like it.
Heather, yes, I’ve been working on my issues too. I think I’ve made a good progress. I just don’t know how long I will be in this grieving process. I don’t see the end of it, and I’m very tired.
I know that I don’t have to deal with the craziness of MLC every day, like other people on this board. But sometimes I wonder if this prolongs my process. H initiates contact once in a while, and he’s been nice and polite lately. I don’t see the anger, I don’t see the weirdness. I wonder if I started to idealize him, like thinking about him as a normal person I used to know. Then I remember the things he did and said and that he left me like I was nothing to him. It makes me angry and sad, and I don’t want that person near me.
I guess I'm on my own rollercoaster right now…
Bright - You have been at this exactly 1 year longer than I have. I simply do NOT know how you have hung in there this long, and that goes for others on this board who have hung in even longer. This past year felt like just existing alot of the time. Alot of good things have come from all the pain, but I want to LIVE. I do admire everyone still standing - don't get me wrong. That is indeed love being tested a million times over. But, I'm 51. Time's a wastin'. Do you ever feel like that, Bright? I know the little signs can be really encouraging, and you certainly know him best, so you will know what's best for you. Go with your gut, and if that means hanging in a bit longer, do so. I, too, keep remembering those 'spew' things he said and did, and they were pretty bad - something I'm not sure I can ever really get past anyway...Keep moving Bright. You may soon find yourself having an 'awakening' of your own. Make it a great day tomorrow!
LiveNow, I don’t know why I’m keeping hanging in there. Sometimes I’m so disappointed at myself that I cannot just let go like others in my situation. I think I just need more time. I also feel like I’ve been just existing and not living. Even though it doesn’t look like it from outside. Only a couple of my GFs and my sister in the outside world know the truth. And even then, they don’t know as much as I post here.
I do feel like I’m just wasting my time, getting older. And I’m looking around and telling myself that there will be a chance for me to find somebody to connect with. I just don’t see anything that would interest me. I think I’m not ready for a new R yet.
He actually didn’t spew anything bad, in general. It is just the things he said were so hurtful. Like he said that he is starting a new phase of his life. There was “phase before me, then there was a phase with me, and now he will have a phase after me”. It’s like I’m just a piece of furniture that needs replacing.
My gut tells me that he is not in a happy place, maybe regretting the whole thing. But, I also know that he is a very stubborn man and prides himself for making the decisions and sticking to them.
I did have a lot better day today, thanks. I think going back to the office was really good for me.
Yeah, we just needed to be replaced.
Nods, I'm sure your right about him not being happy. Just keep walking forwards.
Bright,
I totally understand. Maybe there is something in the air, because the description of how you are feeling recently fits my feelings very well. It stinks, and I'm sorry you are feeling this and going through this rough time. I don't really have many words of encouragement... just sometimes it may help to know others understand and are going through the same thing. I will be thinking of you and sending positive vibes to you whenever I feel them. Take care.
-Mighty
Bright - you'll know when you've had enough. Until that time, be good to yourself, and talk to people. You will find understanding everywhere around you...
Ggrass, Mighty, LiveNow, thank you for your kind words. It means a lot to me. I feel much better when I have somebody to talk to. I don’t talk much about my sitch with my friends and family anymore. When my thread goes without comments for some time I start feeling alone. I know there is not much going on in my thread. It is not that exciting or dramatic as others. I’m also not a good writer. So, when people leave even a small comment, I get excited and it keeps me going, moving on.
Mighty, thank you for sending me positive vibes. I think it is working
.
LiveNow, the only place where people still understand me is here, on this board. Everyone else around me (including my GF who did go through this and it took her a loooong time to finally end it) are asking me why I haven’t filed for D yet. They look at me like I am some kind of loony or just a week person. This is one of the reasons I stopped socializing with people who made friends with in the past 2 years. Every time I meet with them they ask me if I’m D’d already. Well, some of them are the guys who want to be closer friends with me
.
Hi Bright!
I do feel like I’m just wasting my time, getting older.
How so? What are you doing or not doing that would make you feel like you're just wasting your time? Why are you not correcting this?
If it's just the dating or lack of an intimate partner thingy, I know that you know you don't
need that in order to live a meaningful and happy life.
I'd even say it's important that we be content by ourselves before we can find that healthy, happy, long term relationship we long for.
Besides, You're not getting older, you're getting better!
No, no! Not lonely or weak! You aren't that at all! A broken heart does not mean we need to do things that *society* expects us to do. If you feel like that talking with your friends, then don't talk with them. Keep coming here and, if possible, find someone else to confide in. I know, it gets really difficult and it is soooooo important to find someone who understands. That can be hard. Keep posting here. I've had a better couple of days, and I'm thinking of you! I will continue to send it your way!!!! Keep your head up, Bright! And remember those words: Bright future. There will be one.... to be continued.......
Bright - I know what you mean about cutting back on talking to people. After 1 year, I'm kind of in the same boat. But I find that if I tell them some of the stuff I've learned here, they are more understanding. And, your real friends are those who say something like 'I support you no matter what you decide.' Not everyone will convey that message to you, but stick with those who do. And someday maybe you can help them by listening. That is a huge positive to come out of this for me - I think I have learned to be a better friend from those who have been there for me this whole time. Keep posting. You are not alone.
FY, thank you for this:
Besides, You're not getting older, you're getting better!
Yes, this is about dating, or actually not dating. Everybody tells me that I would have no problem finding somebody to date. As a matter of fact in the last two years there were quite a few guys who wanted to date me. When I meet new single guys and talk with them, they immediately want to get to know me better. And I always tell them that I’m not ready for dating, but I we can be friends. Well, it usually doesn’t work, because they are always trying to be more than friends. So, I back off.
I’m pretty content by myself. I feel very comfortable in this world. I am not afraid of challenges of everyday life. I can take care of myself. It is just that I want to share my life with somebody special. And I feel that my chances to meet that somebody special are getting smaller and smaller as I get older.
Yes, Mighty, I’m thinking about bright future for me. This is exactly why choose this user name.
LiveNow, I’ve tried to tell people about stuff I leant here, but they dismiss it like something I’m using to distract myself from reality. I has a conversation with a young woman who was trying to be a life coach, and she told me this “Your H told you very clearly that he doesn’t want to be with you, but you didn’t get the message”. Meaning that I still had hope (it was about a year ago.)
Small update. Received a forwarded e-mail from H. I ordered a new phone through the phone company and they sent the shipment notification e-mail to H’s e-mail. This phone account used to be a joint account. He changed to a different phone company last year. The account was created for our business and apparently had his name and e-mail attached. I tried to change it a couple of times (called and went to the local store), but something was not updated properly. So, he received this e-mail 2 days ago when the phone shipped. Today he just forwarded it to me without a word.
I guess he really doesn’t want to be in contact with me anymore. I was reading GGG’s updated today where she said that her H followed her behavior. When she distanced herself, so did he. I wonder if this is what happened in my case too. I silently forwarded him his mail. And now he silently forwards me the e-mails. I never got a thank you for sending him his mail (that includes Playboy magazine BTW), so should I also stay silent and not mention the e-mail? I just don’t know anymore.
Bright,
I would take a few minutes and compose an email, i.e., thanking him for forwarding the phone email on to you. It's just a courtesy, but it also will open the door of communication just a wee bit.
Sometimes we tend to "over" think things and it creates more stinking thinking. Just be yourself. I know you would have sent an email to a friend, acknowledging the receipt of the forwarded email notification. I would do the same w/your h in this situation.
Bright, I'm in agreement with job here.
Everybody tells me that I would have no problem finding somebody to date. As a matter of fact in the last two years there were quite a few guys who wanted to date me. When I meet new single guys and talk with them, they immediately want to get to know me better.
Ok, so it's official. Bright is hot.
I’m pretty content by myself. I feel very comfortable in this world. I am not afraid of challenges of everyday life. I can take care of myself.
This makes you even more hot. You can relax. You'll still be hot next year, and the years after that!
I guess he really doesn’t want to be in contact with me anymore. I was reading GGG’s updated today where she said that her H followed her behavior. When she distanced herself, so did he. I wonder if this is what happened in my case too. I silently forwarded him his mail. And now he silently forwards me the e-mails. I never got a thank you for sending him his mail (that includes Playboy magazine BTW), so should I also stay silent and not mention the e-mail? I just don’t know anymore.
I think many long term DB'ers error on the side of not reaching out enough, basing this decision on the belief that their spouse will "miss them" and reach out first.
Hmmm... maybe sometimes this will work, but I figure we might as well try connecting in some manner,
especially when we are well into our sitch and things aren't improving. What do you have to lose? What are you afraid of?
Think of ways to reach out to H and see what happens. Take notes, adjust and repeat.
Listen to FY on the fact that you can take care of yourself and are independent being "hot". I was out at a meetup a while back and one of the women there was complaining that her BF broke up with her. She and her friends were saying that "Men just don't like strong, independent women". I heard them and looked the woman in the eye and said "No, boys don't like strong independent women, MEN do. I know I do.". I said it because I really meant it. I will say this, the women there started to pay much more attention to me after that
. Of course, I'm no where near ready for a relationship yet.
Don't for a minute think you don't have much time left! Don't settle for less than what it is you want for YOU, from your H or anyone else you may end up meeting down the road. Sounds to me like any man would be lucky to have you a part of his life, your H is just too blinded by his own problems to see that!
Haha! Good call, FY! Bright has LOTS of options with her hotness AND she is a great catch bc she is awesome!
Matt- "MEN do"- excellent response!!!!!
Matt,
You're pretty awesome. :-)
Bright, time ain't runnin out...I'm just getting better and more focused on what I want and deserve.
Smile and say, "I CAN HANDLE THIS!"
Love,
Heather
I think many long term DB'ers error on the side of not reaching out enough, basing this decision on the belief that their spouse will "miss them" and reach out first.
Hmmmm depends on the Mlcer - my xh used to respond to any reaching out by initial friendliness then a big emotional punch in the gut. A sort of 'come closer and then I can hit you again'
FY your wife is a 'nice' MLCer, some of them become vicious. no other way of describing their behaviour.
Hmmmm depends on the Mlcer - my xh used to respond to any reaching out by initial friendliness then a big emotional punch in the gut. A sort of 'come closer and then I can hit you again'
FY your wife is a 'nice' MLCer, some of them become vicious. no other way of describing their behaviour.
Agreed. And I don't pretend to know Bright's H, or what would or wouldn't work with him. But I do know we all can try stuff and pay attention to the response.
Matt, I like that you set the women straight. Ok, not really my type but you're hot too.
FY - I do agree about trying things. It is wonderful when DBing and reaching out brings the spouse back closer. But for those of us whose spouses remained 'out there' - well I know I was not alone in feeling like a terrible failure because my xh didn't respond. Wasn't I doing it 'right'
Now further on, I can see that it wasn't me, but there is a danger that those whose DBing is 'working' do not understand how desolate it is to be doing the same things and being pushed away.
I do not feel that way now - but I did and I believe that many others do. We rejoice when people rebuild, but for many people they do not give up on their spouses, their hope gradually dwindles away.
We DB for ourselves, but for most, there is hope at the outset
Even though I've been reading the DB books and posts here for 2 years now, I know I understand this stuff based on my own situation... I think we all do to some extent, especially in the beginning.
Then, someone comes along and explains a different perspective in a manner that really clicks for me. Thank you for teaching me something new today, B.
hi bright-
i'm seconding bea's suggestion you just give yourself permission to take a step back and do nothing ornot much for awhile. we do demand so much of ourselves- we think we "should Know" - we should "do", etc.
it's a hard long process- and i wonder same thing as you - when he's nice, did i idealize him? do i now3? do I ro manticize him when he's away- then realize allover again when he's present and pleasant that he is/isn't the same old guy.
it's an insane proce4ss- i've been doing it for either three or four years- can hardly rememer - feels like a thousant. this morning tho- for a change - felt a feeling of "wellbeing" for awhile- despite not enough sleep. i think it does come - very very very slowly- return to "normalcy" - well, i'm hoping anyway- fingers crossed.
you're doing good- hang on - no easy fixes around unfortunately.
xxo
Wow, thanks everyone for the comments!
FY, thank you for declaring me “officially hot”. It made me smile, and also reading all these responses. I don’t consider myself hot though. I hear it from people and it always surprises me. I’m not a model looking. I consider myself an average in terms of looks and shape. Yes, I do look younger than my years, I do look in shape (even though I have a few extra pounds I’m trying to lose) and I do have a pretty face. I know some guys (and actually women) I met in the past were making comments about how lucky my H was. I also know these comments started to irritate H about 2-3 years pre DB.
Sounds to me like any man would be lucky to have you a part of his life, your H is just too blinded by his own problems to see that!
Matt, this is what I hear quite often. But let me say something here. People in the outside world only saw a nice girl with lots of good qualities, confident and independent, open and not judgmental, etc. It was H who this girl allowed to show the true colors with. And sometimes they were not pretty. I know my issues now. I was looking to H to fix my childhood issues of not having much attention from my Father. I was behaving like a little angry girl sometimes. So, I can totally understand H not wanting this, especially when he started to deal with his own issues.
And it is interesting what you said about MEN vs. Boys. I think it makes sense now. On one side H wanted an independent woman who could take care of herself and not rely on him much (and I was that woman, except for the emotions.) On the other side, I was told by our mutual friends that H was intimidated by me. Well, I was making a lot much money for a while. I think H lost his confidence, or he always had it low, just was masking it so well by emphasizing his masculinity. I remember that he was not comfortable when I asked him to hold my purse when I needed to go to the restroom or something. I saw my friend doing it for his wife with no problems. I also saw other guys doing it for their wifes or women. It always puzzled me why H was so sensitive about this. I think now I understand.
Bea, you are into something here. I need to think more about what you said. My H is not a mean MLCer. Actually he is not only “nice”, he is very nice, especially lately. I think I’m at the point that if I initiate the contact and I get no response, it would not bother me too much. I’m not even sure what I will make out of a response or no response. You are so right about the hope dwindling away.
I’m doing much better recently. I almost lost this persistent feeling in my stomach. I feel that I’m getting more distant from H, like moving away. This scares me. I am the person who normally goes all the way while there is still hope. I don’t give up that easily. I think that I’m afraid to completely drop the rope because I know that once I do that there will be no way going back. I will not reopen my heart to H even if he decides to come back.
So, now back to action.
Job, I thought the same, to reply to H’s e-mail thanking him. Should I send him a thank you e-mail and also tell him that I fixed the contacts on the account, so he should not be getting e-mails for me anymore? Which is the truth. Or, would it sound like I’m trying to get rid of every mention of him? Which is partially true too, at least at the moment.
Any advice on this? Or, am I over thinking this again?
And it is interesting what you said about MEN vs. Boys. I think it makes sense now. On one side H wanted an independent woman who could take care of herself and not rely on him much (and I was that woman, except for the emotions.) On the other side, I was told by our mutual friends that H was intimidated by me. Well, I was making a lot much money for a while. I think H lost his confidence, or he always had it low, just was masking it so well by emphasizing his masculinity. I remember that he was not comfortable when I asked him to hold my purse when I needed to go to the restroom or something. I saw my friend doing it for his wife with no problems. I also saw other guys doing it for their wifes or women. It always puzzled me why H was so sensitive about this. I think now I understand.
This is very interesting, Bright! My h had what I called a representative. He came across as very strong, secure, confident, etc. He would always comment that people thought he grew up with a silver spoon or came from some great family. I think he thought that was part of his *power* because he could present himself this way. He was told growing up that he really was worthless. He was in a large family and was told that he was the one who was going nowhere and would be like his uncle (who was trash and in and out of jail- on the run from the cops- drugs, you get the pic...). Anyway, h was so proud that he was the most successful out of them all, and I think in part to prove his worth and them wrong.
So.... to make a short story long..... Your above quote resonated with me. Although my h came across as very confident, I could always tell he was insecure. He would never show or admit that.... ever! He would have never held my purse either! He always had to present himself a certain way- especially in public.
And, a funny thing about that- total MLC moment from this man. A couple months ago, he stopped by the house. He was wearing a pink dress shirt. Like... really pink. He NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS would have done that. If I had even suggested something in that realm, he would have said,"HE/L No!" and would have cut me off at the knees for even suggesting it. I was totally stunned when he walked in with on! I was sitting at the table doing work, and I did one of those head jerks, where it went back, and bugged my eyes. I didn't mean to, but I kind of laughed too. He made a face, and looked a little embarrassed. I didn't say a word- he knew exactly what I was looking at! I was SHOCKED! It's not even that I didn't like it, it was just not his style- at all. Then my son came out and made a comment about it, because even he noticed how weird and unlike him it was. S teased him, because h would always want s to look a certain way- just like him!
Hmmm.... sorry, Bright. I didn't mean to take up your thread with that. Just sometime we have those moments when someone else make you think, you know?
Bright,
I would just thank him and leave it at that. I wouldn't say anything about correcting the address because he'll probably not pay any attention as to whether he gets the info again in the future.
I think many long term DB'ers error on the side of not reaching out enough, basing this decision on the belief that their spouse will "miss them" and reach out first.
Hmmmm depends on the Mlcer - my xh used to respond to any reaching out by initial friendliness then a big emotional punch in the gut. A sort of 'come closer and then I can hit you again'
FY your wife is a 'nice' MLCer, some of them become vicious. no other way of describing their behaviour.
Yeah, I would reach out and he would blow sand at me. Nothing at which you could say that's nasty or disrespectful but mentioning he was away in ow town!
He was sick but no mention of how he got taken to hospital and how he got home if critically ill! Telling me he deliberately ignores my call as its unimportant! Etc!
Just enough to play mind games, so I don't each out I don't contact, he lives 3km away. Traveling 2.5 hours to ow is easy fun and worth it.
I don't play mind games, anymore. Simple
Mighty, no worries about taking up my thread. It is always helpful to see other stories about similar issues. It is very funny about your H wearing the pink dress shirt. My H didn’t drastically change his dress style, except he started wearing flip flops, which he would never do before.
Job, I always listen to your advice. It is like a universe is telling me what to do. Don’t want to put that much pressure on you, but it really helps to validate my thoughts when you step in. I sent him a simple thank you note in the e-mail. I don’t expect anything in return.
Ggrass, I’m sorry I am not up to date on your thread. I started reading, but didn’t have time to catch up. Your stich is fairly new. It sounds like your H is an angry man right now, especially since ow is involved. I remember in the first 6 months when I would text H about something and would not get any reply back. I thought it was rude and disrespectful. I stopped. Traveling to see ow for 2.5 hours will get old at some point. Hang in there.
So, if I would analyze things (I know it is not encouraged here), I would say that something is still stopping H from completely breaking all ties with me. This recent e-mail forward. He is no longer on that phone account, so he could have told me that I needed to remove his name and e-mail from there. He didn’t. There are a few other accounts which he receives the e-mails for and then forwards them to me. One of them is a CC card tied to Costco membership, which is also under our company name. He doesn’t use that card anymore. I know this because I get the statements. So, what prevents him from removing himself and his contact info from that card? Just a thought.
Bright,
Sometimes they don't remove their names from accounts and also continue to use their former home address for mailing purposes. I think your h isn't ready to cut all ties w/you because you have left him alone to explore and find his way. here are some who just drift through their crisis and do not stir up a lot of destruction. Count yourself lucky he's this way and not like the ones that up every bridge that they cross.
No one can ever imagine what goes through their minds during the crisis. Sure, we hear about some of the stuff they do and think about...but each case is different and until your h decides to share, you are left in limbo. I would continue to observe and try not to be too concerned about his name being left on other items....it's very normal for some of them to do this.
Keep the focus on you. Have a great week!
Hi BF,
The thing about being M is that you are supposed to be able to show your "true colors" to this person, and they theirs. We ALL have a part of ourselves that we don't share with the world at large. Our S's are supposed to be the person that we can relax and be who we are, warts and all, with at all times. We all have a "not so pretty" side, issues that we keep hidden. Part of a M is that you except this other person knowing that, like everyone, they have flaws but you love them not in spite of those flaws but also because of them! I knew my W had issues, she has a hard time trusting other people, she gets angry when she's hungry and acts like a diva, there is a list. The thing is I loved her just the same. I accepted that she had reasons for feeling the way she did, for acting out at times and I wanted her to know that she was safe to act the way she wanted and I wouldn't judge her because of it. Sure at the time she was acting out it wasn't "fun" but I knew that she had had a hard childhood, a father who was a judgemental a$$. That she felt abandoned by her father and like she had to take care of her mother after he left. I wanted her to know that it was "safe" for her to act out and I would be there once it blew over.
This is what a mature loving M is all about. You have to take the good with the bad. No one is perfect, no one can be the perfect wife or husband all the time. Your H knew your issues before and still loved you. Your "issues" didn't drive him into his MLC or cause him to have a crisis. If we had to be perfect S's at all times for a M to work, no one would ever stay M! If our S's are looking for the 'perfect" person to spend their lives with, they will NEVER find that. It was HIS choice to be intimidated. He lost his confidence not because of anything about you or you did or didn't do but because of his own thoughts and problems.
Sometimes it's hard when we get the "spew" from our S's because there are, in every M, things that we know we could have done different. Things about ourselves that "aren't pretty". It doesn't justify what your H is doing and it doesn't make you at all at fault for what he CHOOSES to do! Always keep this in mind when dealing with your H.
Job, it is always so comforting to read your responses. I suppose I’m lucky to not witness the craziness that I read about on other threads. Except the luck of it makes me doubt that he is in MLC sometimes. I’m not too concerned about his name still on some items, I’m just curious.
Matt, I admire your understanding of your W’s childhood issues, your patience and mature way to look at things. I agree and disagree with what you said. Yes, it was H’s issue to feel insecure and intimidated. Yes, nobody is perfect and spouses should feel safe to be themselves in a relationship. I didn’t do harmful things on purpose, but I could have taken H’s feelings into consideration in a lot of cases. The problem was that we didn’t know how to communicate our feelings in a healthy way. I hope I’ve learnt from this whole ordeal and I will be able to apply what I learnt to my future R, whether it with H or not.
Thanks for reminding me that H’s choice is H’s choice and not my fault.
Matt, I admire your understanding of your W’s childhood issues, your patience and mature way to look at things. I agree and disagree with what you said. Yes, it was H’s issue to feel insecure and intimidated. Yes, nobody is perfect and spouses should feel safe to be themselves in a relationship. I didn’t do harmful things on purpose, but I could have taken H’s feelings into consideration in a lot of cases. The problem was that we didn’t know how to communicate our feelings in a healthy way. I hope I’ve learnt from this whole ordeal and I will be able to apply what I learnt to my future R, whether it with H or not.
Thanks for reminding me that H’s choice is H’s choice and not my fault.
Bright, don't beat yourself up about it. MLC definitely makes us put a spotlight on our r. Some things become so clairvoyant... things we didn't realize we were looking at through narrow eyes. Our field of vision definitely broadens as we trudge our way through this. There are so many things I think, "Oh man, I wish I didn't.." or "I wish I had..." "If only..." This is a learning process. But then I feel too, that jeez, I just wish I had known. If h felt this way, I would/wouldn't have..... Why didn't he just tell me?
I didn't intentionally try to push him away- ever. But remember, this would have happened regardless. The good thing is- we learned from this! Had this never happened, we would be much less knowledgeable. We didn't create this. We didn't want this. Yes, if we could go back and change things that we now know, it would be great- but it wouldn't have prevented it.
Mighty, that is a very wise posting - even now I catch myself thinking - why did I do or say that? But the truth is that we are not perfect, and they are very damaged, and so also misinterpret things. I did many kind things post bomb, but they were twisted in a way that was beyond belief . . . Dealing with damaged goods is a difficult call, especially if we are also emotionally involved
Thanks Mighty and Bea. Well, I was not going to beat myself about the past, but I must have done some horrible things. H texted today that he transferred the money for the condo mortgage. It was a short version again, without addressing me or bothering to type the whole sentence: “Transferred XXXX to your account”, compared to “I transferred XXXX to your account yesterday” he sent last month or addressing me by the name before that. It is exactly one months since the last text. At least he is consistent with the money. I guess he doesn’t want to lose the condo, LOL.
I think I caught GGG’s bug... The text didn’t bother me much, but it made to start thinking… What did do so terrible that after two years he is still angry at me. I interpret it as him being angry at me. Would he treat a friend or a person who does favors for him like that? I don’t think so. He would be very polite and considerate. And he wanted to be friends with me. And I do favors for him, taking care of the mortgage payment, not kicking him to the curb, tolerating his Playboy coming to the house and sending it to him.
I’m not in any way pursuing him, or want something from him, or bothering him. I left him alone to do what he wants to do. I’m not making his life difficult. He chose it himself. It is not my fault that it is not working the way he expected it to. Or, is it my fault? Did I coerce him into marring me and then kept him in the marriage for 17 years, and now he has trouble finding a willing woman in a desired age bracket with whom he would have a harmonious relationship? He left to find a better life, a better partner and start the next phase of his life. Or, and to start fresh with somebody new.
I guess it is not happening. But, it is NOT my fault. Or, maybe it is… It is very difficult to find somebody with similar qualities, looks, compatibility, etc. at the bars. I guess dating sites are also not very good, because meeting new people requires some WORK.
So, here it goes. I was posting here that my H was nice and polite and not doing any crazy stuff like others. Did I jinx it? He is not doing crazy stuff, thank goodness. But, he is back to be mean and short with me. What did I do? Even if he thinks that I’ve moved on and don’t really want to hear from him, he still could be polite with me. After all, this is what he wanted. I could understand if he would be dumped by me and was hurting, so he would be angry with me. But, it just the opposite. He had no feelings for me, he was not happy and the whole thing was supposed to be over 2 years ago.
Like I said I’m not mad, I’m not spinning. Just thinking. I just don’t get it.
Oh man, you're in a similar mental state as I am. It seems to be cyclical, huh? I'm 1.5 months in and you're 2+ years in. I think that's the frustrating part. The pain doesn't dissipate and that's rather discouraging but please know that you're not alone. You're not at fault. You are worth more than this and you know that. There's no reason that I can tell that he can't be polite and cordial to you. Unless he's resentful that you seem to be able to and perhaps he sees that you're doing it easily (though you're probably not). Maybe he's acting mean because you seem to be doing just fine and are so polite. I'm not saying you should change that at all because there's great power in being kind in situations that are hard to be kind in BUT that see-saw occurs in almost every situation.
Keep being you. Be kind. Don't let his bitterness and unkindness chip away at you.
I'm sending you love and light tonight.
Bright -I think they are angry with themselves, and that they blame us for how they feel. I don't know this, but this is how it seems.
You did nothing wrong. Relationships are messy and difficult, and MLCers want something they do not have to put effort into, anything that requires they look at their behaviour.
My xh is still angry with me, and actually has to manufacture situations to get angry about. After the divorce and long separation it is hard to find current excuses. I believe he is angry with himself, but cannot look inward.
So please stop taking the blame for something you didn't do. It is pointless, and it doesn't help anyone. Heal, and live your life. Easier said than done, I know, but possible.
Bright,
Your h could very well be angry at himself or something may have happened during his day before he was in contact w/you. They lash out at the person closest to them because they feel safe in doing so.
My advice, please stop taking his actions personally. I know it's difficult to do, but you have to remember you aren't to blame for how he feels right now or what is happening in his world. He's the only one that can take that blame on for now. You didn't do anything wrong and maybe, just maybe, he realizes it and is feeling angry w/himself for putting both of you in this situation...but time will tell. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.
As long as your actions are kind, civil and courteous, then you have nothing to worry about on your side of the sandbox. Leave him to breaking his little shovel and putting holes in his sand pail.
Bright,
Just caught up with you here. Your h isn't angry at you, he's angry because his life isn't the way he thought it would be when he left. They think the grass will be greener (with or without an ow) and as Job said)they lash out at whomever is closest. As difficult as it is, ignore it and let it go.
You can't blame yourself for ANY of what he is doing now. If it was such an awful marriage and he felt it was all YOUR fault, do you think he would still be married to you? Wouldn't he have just headed straight to an attorney's office and filed for D? LOL Yeah, he's still not sure that he wants to be alone. Look at what my h did...filed for separation but then didn't want to fill out any paperwork to keep it moving along. Some of them just need more time than others to get through this.
I'm happy to read that you are doing well in your job. It's a good distraction and an ego booster as well!
I hope you don't mind if I hijack your thread for an update, Bright...
I'm hesitant to post on my own thread because I now have even more reason to believe that my h may be reading here. He's using too many of the terms that are all over this forum to be a coincidence. He told me yesterday that he doesn't know how else to get through to ow that HE IS FINISHED with her without hitting her upside the head with a 2X4 and then later said that he has gone DARK on her because blah, blah, blah. Oh, and a few weeks ago there was a comment on distancing and pursuing.
He has begun to wake up. I'm not certain but some of the well timed comments and a few of the seeds that I planted may inspired him to pay closer attention to the ow motives. I wouldn't suggest that anyone try this because it could very easily have given him cause to run even further away from me. I had come to a point where I didn't really care what happened any longer. I have always known that I'll be okay without him but haven't given up because of the connection that we had and continued to have through his mlc. I took the chance after seeing that he was growing weary and it seemed that the fog was beginning to lift.
He's also admitting to mistakes, testing to see if I've truly moved on, being extremely attentive, polite and he has withdrawn the separation. I see the changes in him. They're very subtle but they are there. He has a very long way to go and could just as easily turn to a new ow. I have ZERO expectations and continue along on my own journey.
Bea, I went looking for your new thread and couldn't find it???
I can't imagine what it's going to take to get your h to realize that you don't owe him anything and that you don't want him in your life!
Job, I gave my h a key to the garage so that he can "put a few pieces of yard equipment back" but along with those tools came brown grocery bags with clothing and miscellaneous items that one wouldn't normally store in a garage. He joked a bit about staying in the guest room if things get too tense at the other house, to which I have not responded. I'm still sitting on the curb watching to see how this ow drama ends.
Thanks everyone, Ss06, Bea, Job and NLT, for telling me that I didn’t do anything to cause this behavior. I kind of knew that, but could not help to think that it must have been so awful for him to have a R with me.
My guess is that maybe the work has not been going that great for him, and this condo is kind of a reminder that he still needs to work for a long time in order to pay for it.
I also think that his personal life is not getting anywhere. The grass is not getting greener. NLT, you are right, he hasn’t filed for D yet. But, I think there are some other factors why he is not doing it, besides being afraid to cut the last tie to me. He is afraid that the D would me messy, that I would divide everything and he will be in even worse situation. At least now he has this condo he can live in and have me as a backup in case he cannot pay for it. He also tries to avoid any confrontation at any cost, and I think he doesn’t want to look like a fool in front of people.
NLT, it great to hear from you! I was wondering how you’ve been. You are absolutely welcome to post here any time. I hope you will get replies from the vets as well. I don’t mind it at all. And it would be beneficial for me too.
So, there is a trouble in paradise. I chuckled about the brown grocery bags with the cloths. Yes, I can see why he is hesitant to hit ow upside the head with 2x4. It might prompt her to take another trip on a kayak, LOL.
I’m glad that you see some positive changes in him. He might be coming around, but it could take a long time. All you need to do is to have patience.
Hey Bright! How you doin? Been thinking of ya and wondering...
Hope all is well..
Hey Mighty, thanks for checking up on me. I’ve been doing good, mostly, with some sadness creeping in sometimes. Overall, my life is good. I’m settled at work. I went on a business trip two weeks ago and discovered that it is not that bad to travel through the airports. I had a security Precheck on my boarding pass, so I went through the lines without removing my shoes and taking anything out of my bag. It was easy. There was one hiccup in Houston, but I was prepared for it. So, I’m excited about the travel again.
I took a couple of days off last week and went to my vacation home with my sister and her son. We had a great time. We met with my (mutual) friends over there. From what I understood, there have no communication with H. He called them last week to inquire about the condo because he just learnt about the heavy rain over there two weeks prior. I already mentioned that my friends called me to let me know that the condo was ok. They didn’t call H. Which is a bit strange. I didn’t talk to them about that, because my sister was there, so I was trying not to mention H at all.
Another thing was that I could not start H’s car to take it out of the garage, so I could park my car there. It was very hot, so I wanted my car to stay cool. Well, my male friend was supposed to start H’s car once in a while, but he didn’t. I guess the battery just died. Apparently H has not been concerned about the car, otherwise he would remind my friend to check it. It just seems that H has been trying to avoid any difficulties or bad news in life right now.
Yesterday was H’s niece’s wedding. His sister’s daughter. It was in the city where H’s oldest brother lives. H’s other brother, who lives here (my BIL) said before that he was not going to this wedding because this is the second one for his niece and he was not invited to the first one. I thought that H would not go also, but it looks like he went. I saw the credit card charges in that city. I think he is going to the next wedding too, the other niece (his older brother’s daughter), which is going to be in the same city in two weeks. So, there is definitely some connection with the family, I don’t know.
I’m going to my BIL’s (H’s brother) later today for a BBQ, so I might learn more info.
Went to my BIL’s today. My sister and family went too, so my son and his GF. Found out that my BIL (H’s brother) didn’t go to his nieces’ wedding. He said the same thing he said before, that he is not going to the 2nd, 3rd, etc. weddings, plus he was not invited to the first one. He said that he is going to the other wedding in two weeks and that H is going there too. I wanted so badly to say that I’m offended that my son was not invited, but I didn't say anything. But, it really hurts to know that my son was not invited. Am I being delusional again? My son is not their blood, but my H raised him and he was friends with the bride’s brother for a few years in elementary and middle school before we moved to a different state.
I’m really upset about this and hurt for my son. I’m thinking I need to remove my H’s niece and his older brother (her father) from my LinkedIn connections. I’m seriously thinking about this. What a bunch of hypocrites.
I’m contemplating whether I should tell my BIL that I’m really disappointed that my son is not invited to the wedding, so he could convey this to the rest of the family when he is there in two weeks. I’m tired of being punched out and keeping it quite. I’m also disappointed about my H not standing up for my son. What a loser…
Bright - I do understand how you feel, but just two points (not quite a 2 x 4) The first is, how does your son feel about it? and the second - if you look at 'pursuer' behaviour, this is typical - you are fighting his battle and feeling hurt on his behalf etc.
Your son is old enough to say to your husband that he is sorry he wasn't invited. And to express his feelings to the rest of the family if he feels it is appropriate. It isn't your battle, however hurt and disappointed you feel. Focus on your needs and respond to those. (I am still learning this one)
Families are strange things - some are opening and welcoming and others close ranks. Families that produce MLCers are probably not very functional ones. MLC doesn't come out of a clear blue sky however blindsided we were by it.
Bright,
Bea's post is spot on. It's understandable that you would be hurt and disappointed that your son wasn't invited, but like Bea pointed out, your son is old enough to speak to your h about this. Allow him to make the decision as to whether or not to speak up about it. You can't fight his battles for him all of the time and this is all part of growing up.
As for removing/blocking some of the inlaws on the net, I wouldn't do it unless this is really something you want to do. If you have had a good relationship w/your h's family, then keep them on your communication links. If you haven't, then you will need to decide what you want to do. You do not want to come off looking petty and spiteful because your son wasn't invited. Who knows what was behind your son not being invited, but I would rise above their behavior and show them the Bright that we all know and love. It's their loss if he's not invited.
Keep the focus on you and your life.
We'll, H just sent a text "Have you used the xxx card lately. Got a message from the fraud dept." This is about the credit card that was on file with internet provider for our business email. It was set for automatic renewal on Aug.31. I received an email from the provider yesterday that the transaction was declined. This is H's card that he doesn't use anymore (the statements still come to my house.) This is just his card, I am not on it. He should know that. I entered a different card in order to pay the bill and had some problems at first, because I forgot that H changed the address for that card to the state he works at. I wonder if he will get another message from that card company too, LOL.
Anyway, here where I would like some advice, as Job promised
.Do I reply in the same kind of "dry" way? Without addressing him by the name? Or should I be more polite and upbeat? Any thoughts?
I would address him by name and tell him what's going on w/the account and card. Try to visualize him as an old friend that you've not heard from in a long time.
Let me ask you this...do you respond to old friends in a dry manner or do you attempt to be courteous and upbeat? You would treat him the same way that you would a friend. Honey draws my bees than vinegar.
OK, so I replied “Hi H, no I haven’t used the card.” Then I told him about the transaction that was declined and that I used the other card (which is joint card that he uses for business expenses.)
I waited to reply for almost 2 hours. Well, I was busy at work, and waiting for the advice on this board.
He replied right away.
Here is the exchange after that.
H: Ok cool. I will call and let them know the issue. Do you still use it for anything? Maybe i should cancel it!
Me: I don’t use it. I’m not sure where else it could be stored. For business? I thought there are some accumulated miles you could use.
H: Think i used those for the spain trip? I will check
Me (after some hesitation): XXXX (other card) miles were used for Spain trip, that’s for sure.
There was no reply to my last text. I kind of didn’t expect it anyway.
Here are my thoughts:
- Why would he ask me if I use the card? I don’t have this card, it is his card. We used it for business stuff, like it was on file with internet provider, but that’s it. I know d@rn well that it is not used anywhere else, I get the statements. I just played it a little to see what he would do. I guess he just has some significant memory issues.
- Speaking of the memory issues… The trip to Spain was two months prior to BD. It‘s been almost 2.5 years. This was the last big trip he (and I) went on (we used to travel somewhere every year.) I booked the flights for that trip and I used the miles that were accumulated on our joint credit card.
- “Think i used those for the spain trip” – this is typical H in the first few years of marriage and in the couple of last years prior to BD. He would use word “I”, even though it related to a joint activity or joint matter. He apologized a lot in the first few years of M, saying that he was so used to be by himself that he had hard time adjusting to “us”. Bull sh!t! I think it just shows that he just never knew how to fully commit to the M.
- So, I avoided to say “WE used the other card miles for trip to Spain”. Do I get 2x4 for this? Actually this is my question. I wanted to remind him that there was “us” at some point, but then I thought that this word would scare him again. Should I stay neutral and not use word "us"?
- It seems that this Spain trip comes up quite a lot in his thoughts. This was the last thing we did together.
- I showed a kind side of me to remind H that there would some miles he could use before he cancels the CC. Maybe it reminded him that we always double checked each other when making decisions and I was actually a reliable and caring partner.
OK, maybe too much analysis for a short text exchange. It is just so exciting after a couple of months of silence, LOL. Does this sound like H is not completely detached from me? Like he thinks I’m kind of his mother. He can ignore me and be rude and mean to me, but then just to check in about some life matters, like asking if he can cancel his CC. If he would not want to do anything with me, why would he ask if I’ve been using his CC? It there something I don’t understand?
I will try to address Bea’s and Job’s posts regarding the wedding in a little while. I do still have some unresolved feelings about it.
Bright we do tend to overthink exchanges with them - we know them so well and we do not know the MLC person, so it is complicated. However, over time this tendency to analyse lessens. I now focus much more on understanding myself and my own responses.
His life isn't very interesting now, in all probability, and he is confused and unhappy. Remember we can't fix them,
Yes, he probably does look back to happier times, and yes, their memory is terrible. We can't get in their head and rummage around that is for sure.
Bea, Job, thank you for coming to my rescue again. I wanted to post more about the wedding matter. You are both right, and I will follow your advice and say nothing to the family. My son doesn’t seem to be bothered by this, so I will rest my case. Even though it just brought a lot of hurts from the past.
H’s family (except his brother who lives near me) always treated me like I didn’t completely belong to the family. I’ve accumulated some resentment over the years, especially that H never really stood up for me. He was a bit detached from his family too, so it was not a big deal to him.
Bea, you are so spot on. H’s family is probably the main catalyst for his MLC. All his siblings have some issues when it comes to the relationships.
I just cannot understand what is behind some decisions H’s family makes. I’ve been linked to H’s older brother and his daughter (the one who is getting married in two weeks) on LinkedIn. She actually wanted to keep a contact with me, because she wanted to follow my carrier path and wanted some advice. But, she didn’t invite me to her wedding.
Her brother, H’s nephew, was my son’s friend when we lived in the same state and same neighborhood. He sent me a LinkedIn invite a few months ago, to which I didn’t respond. Then, he invited me and my son to his graduation a couple of months ago. So, what is different with this? Why invite us to graduation, but not to the wedding?
And on top of that, the wife of the older brother sent me a B-day card with a letter in it, saying that she misses talking to me. We never talked after we moved from that state. Why now? I just don’t get it.
Job, thank you for this:
I would rise above their behavior and show them the Bright that we all know and love. It's their loss if he's not invited.
It really makes a difference to have this kind of support and understanding.
It looks like H reactivated that credit card that he wanted to cancel (got an e-mail to his old account that he is no longer using and that I have access to.) Do I get “thank you” for reminding him that he probably has miles on that card that he could use? Nope. If I would not say a word, this card would probably be cancelled by now. Whatever…
I went online to check if the internet provider transaction went through on a different credit card, and I saw H’s charges on that card. He uses this card for business expenses, but he put his trip to the wedding on it too. I guess he is going to expenses it to the business. Here are the observations. He arrived one day before the wedding and left on the next morning after it. He didn’t stay at his older brother’s place, he paid for the hotel, I guess where everybody stayed. He went to eat a few times, and the charges were for what it looks like one person. On the morning when he left he had a breakfast and it looks like he was either by himself or paid just for his meal, which is unusual for H. He always offers to pay for people, especially if it a rare occasion like this. I guess he is really counting his money these days. Or, he was indeed by himself, which my intuition tells me was the case.
Anyway, this is little piece of info that I could gather. I just can’t wait for the next wedding to be over. I want to put it behind.
I’m really straggling to express my thoughts these days. This why I probably don’t get much traffic on my thread. I do have lots of thoughts and feelings, but by the time I get to my computer, they are all processed and gone, or I just have no energy to write. Does anyone have the same problem?
I’ve read Smurf_SMR’s thead about depression. I can identify with a few things, like this:
Another part of depression for me is cyclical-ness. Nothing changes. It is all non linear. It is the same thing over and over in day to day and year to year routines. Feelings and moods are recycled. Thoughts and ideas are recycled. All the books, movies, newspapers, magazines and any other media seem unoriginal and reused from what has already been said and done, very post modern. This all turns into a perpetual state of boredom.
And this:
Even listening is a challenge that I can not meet, whether it be in conversation, talk radio or television. I have been reduced to twenty second sound bites. I also become forgetful, missing details where I prided myself of having mastery of. Nothing is of interest.
And this:
I find it difficult discerning my likes and dislikes. I become very indecisive. Motivation becomes lacking. I’m functional but with a haunted sense of dread. I want to be alone. My only desire is to do nothing and to stare off into a pessimistic view of myself
When I’m at work, I do seem to be functioning quite well, except for attention and memory issues. But, I’ve learnt how to compensate for this. So far, I’ve been managing to do the job, and I’m very grateful for this.
When I come home, it is a different story. I want to do nothing. I don’t want to go anywhere. I do my usual routine, take care of the dog and the house. I think from the outside it looks like I’m a normal person. Even my sister has no clue what is happening to me every day. I feel like every day is a groundhog day, just like in the movie. I do my occasional activities, like shopping, meeting with the people, going to my vacation home. But, when I get back home, I want to be alone and just crawl back into my shell. I have to admit that I use alcohol to numb the feelings and distract me from reality (which is a groundhog day all over.) It is like I want to be “comfortably numb” in my free time.
I do experience ups and downs, like Smurf_SMR has described. Sometimes I feel that I’m even making progress, moving on, etc. And then, back to my shell…
Maybe H is in the same kind of cycle. I don’t really feel much compassion for him right now. I guess I’m just the same kind of selfish person.
Thanks for listening.
BF,
From what I gather of your descriptions of your feelings it sounds like you are quite depressed. I haven't caught up on your thread so please enlighten me, are you on ADs or anything like that? Do you see a IC?
I think it might be helpful to consider meds.
I can personally relate to some of your feelings. I really have trouble articulating myself in an intelligent way. I feel like I'm stumbling on a wing and a prayer when I create a sentence and it may or may not be relevant to the current conversation. LOL Making a point is HARD for me lately, too. I have it in my head but getting it out my mouth or through my fingers to type is a struggle.
A while back I was quite depressed and I can remember the strength it took for me to get on medication for it. Just a few days after starting I notice that the color of the light from the sun was a different color and that's how I knew I was REALLY depressed. It changed everything for me, for the better.
This roller coaster of BD and separation is just a breeding ground for depression but one of the basic fundamentals in DB is to take care of yourself WELL. Sometimes it needs to be forced to get up off the couch and do something we don't want to do only to realize we needed desperately to do it.
I want to encourage you to seek the help you need.
We're here. I'll check in on ya.
Hi BF
I am so sorry that you are having these feelings. I think I was very much like that in 2012 and 2013. Functioning from an outsiders point of view but in reality - when I was alone- just collapsing into loneliness and a dull routine. Especially after my kids slept. It was part of my grieving I suppose- part of my journey to get through. My friends never really even knew what was going on.
I did a lot of journaling, thinking , drinking and crying. It wasn't very healthy. However i was able to really reflect on myself and what I want and where I want to be. It was for sure the hardest time of my life and I knew I had to face it alone. I think getting professional counselling is a great idea. And talking to us here because you are definitely not alone. Ever. You really and truly have us all. Don't forget that. Xxx
>>
I’m really straggling to express my thoughts these days... I do have lots of thoughts and feelings, but by the time I get to my computer, they are all processed and gone, or I just have no energy to write. Does anyone have the same problem?<<
I have this problem right NOW Brightfuture. It's a lot to process all the time. The MLCer has the luxary of expressing their needs, whatever they feel 'on a whim' - they're entitled.
Not the same for us, is it? We do not have that 'luxary'. We're caught off guard after the bomb and then the work begins for us, during such a difficult time. It's so important to rest the brain when possible. I'm even looking into this, link below - maybe you could check it out if it is the kind of thing that appeals to you.
Laughter Yoga /
http://laughteryoga.org/englishI don't know much about it to be honest - just know that I have cried enough & want to laugh more! A LOT more!
Read some of your thread this afternoon as some information 'caught my eye' (re:
still angry at you-
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2485628&page=6). I found that I could relate. It's comforting to know that someone/others in cyber space could understand from their experience - not that it's good 4 you to feel this way, but you know what I mean ...
Getting back to you -
2 yrs is a long time Brightfuture. Rest your brain with some positve things ... keep us posted. Brain fog or not. I hope you feel better soon.
pb
(also hope that my post is understandable)
Ss06, Busting, pbetra, thank you for your posts.
Ss06, I feel the same as Smurf_SMR describes in his thread. Some days I feel good and think that I don’t have depression, that it is all gone. Then there are some days when I fight with it. Not exactly “fight”, but trying to push the feelings away, to find excuses to give up and not do anything. No, I’m not on ADs, and I don’t have IC. I know a lot of people here suggest ADs to manage the depression and help them to get through this whole thing. I will be a very hard sell on this. I prefer not to take any medication. I prefer a glass (or more) of wine, that helps me to relax.
I also don’t believe in IC, for me personally. I had some disappointing experience in the past, it didn’t help me at all. I already knew what the IC was going to say. I think I knew most of the answers, I just needed the support and encouragement, but I didn’t get it. I tried a couple of life coaches too, but nothing worked for me the way I expected. Maybe I have too much expectations... I also don’t like when people give me arbitrary solutions. I feel so much resistance when my friends or family tell me that what I’m doing is wrong, that I’m fooling myself, that I need to do such and such things instead.
The reason I come to this board is that I get the support I need without the judgment. And people still listen, even after 2 years (actually 1.5 years since I joined this forum.) My friends and family have given up on me and don’t want to hear about the sitch anymore.
Busting, it is good to know that eventually these feelings will pass. I know I’m still grieving. It just seems to go for awfully too long, past 2 years already. I prefer talking on this board, even though it is difficult some times. I get discouraged from posting, because sometimes I don’t get any feedback for some time and feel like I’m talking to myself. I can do it in my head. I know that I’m not very exciting poster and I there is barely anything goes on in my sitch. So, I just read other posts and learn from them. But, it becomes lonely after a while.
Pbetra, thanks for the link. I will check it out. I used to do yoga every Sunday. I stopped doing it for a few months, just could not make myself go. I went last weekend, finally. I hope I can make it regular again. I also do daily meditations, I think this keeps me afloat.
You are fairly new in this. I know 2 years seems like a long time for you right now. Not so much for me. Like I said it feels like a groundhog day every day. Sometimes it feels like BD was just yesterday, just without that devastation and disbelieve that came all over me at that time. It is just sad now.
I will try to catch up on everybody’s thread. I just feel that I have no advice to give at this time, but I've been reading along.
>> It just seems to go for awfully too long, past 2 years already. I prefer talking on this board, even though it is difficult some times. I get discouraged from posting, because sometimes I don’t get any feedback for some time and feel like I’m talking to myself. I can do it in my head.<<Hi BF
I have started reading your thread. Just so much going on here as you could imagine.
I am sorry that you feel the way you do & are still grieving. Have you read >
The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Turn the End of a Relationship into the Beginning of a New Life by Susan Anderson This is one that I have to get! I ordered some other recommended, DBs, depression etc ... & am trying to catch up on those. It was well recommended here.
>>I know that I’m not very exciting poster and I there is barely anything goes on in my sitch<<Same here BF! Never mind - you mentioned
why you prefer posting on this board & that's your reason. I know my stuff is 'taupe' in the MLC 'scheme of things'. I don't care. I post & if someone offers a comment or help, that's good. This isn't about
entertainment This is our life, the
life of the LBS who came here b/c they were in PAIN. Let us no tlose sight of that - we're not children who have ot be entertained or prove ourselves. Everyone here is an adult with adult issues. The forum is here re:
venting & support. Keep venting, it's a safe place.I LOOK FORWARD to hearing more in future (even though I have not been here as long as 2 years!!
pb
Hi Bright - you are exactly one year ahead of me in all this. My BD was 6/13. Yes, you're still grieving, and that's going to be different for everyone. I do think what keeps some of us from really moving on is the fact that we're still married. There's no closure. I know once I actually am D, I will not be looking back. My life will truly be my own again, and I really think the thoughts of OW, etc., will stop soon after that. But right now, still separated, I look back constantly, still sometimes wishing that things could be 'repaired.' But, I still have been unable to do much in the way of moving things along toward D, myself. I still don't want to be the one to make those moves. To me, this is still his responsibility to make the D happen, since he's the one who wants it. I will cooperate, but I won't help. So, I remain in limbo while he decides what to do. The fact that your H is making no moves toward D makes this even tougher on you. Really. A few weeks ago, I was on pins and needles because it had been so long since any talk of R or D, and I knew SOMETHING had to happen. Even though it's not moving in the direction I want now, at least it's moving. I was just paralyzed - sitting on the fence for so long. Finally, a push in a direction - ANY direction - felt better. It's SO tiring to stay where you are, but that's entirely up to you to decide how long you can wait for him.
Funny - you were talking about yoga and meditation. I picked up both about a year ago, but really slacked off these last couple of months. Getting back to both soon though. I can really tell that I haven't been doing either! Good for you for keeping up with the meditation. So helpful, once you get in the habit.
Re: IC - I've been going since a few days after BD, and it was very helpful to me this entire time. For me, though, initially, I just needed an ear. Someone to hear me talk about every lousy issue I had not dealt with in my entire adult life! Not like I've solved every problem - not at all - but I now feel like I need to switch to someone who can give me more direction, insight, I'm not sure what really. I would keep trying to find someone you're comfortable with. I does help to actually talk about these things out loud, although writing/journaling helps, too. When you talk to someone, they help shoulder the burden.
Anyway, hang in there, Bright. You'll know when you're ready to act. In the meantime, try to keep busy. I tried my first Meet-up this week, for people in life transitions (mostly divorced or widowed). It was great, energizing, and so comforting to know you're not alone. You can talk to real, live people going through similar circumstances. This board is great, but you can't beat face-to-face communication! I hope you have a good week. Keep the focus on you. I know - easier said than done. (In fact, I need to say it to myself!)
Pbetra, no I haven’t read this book. I guess, I was been deliberately avoiding reading something with worlds “end of a relationship”, even though I know that my old R is dead. I think I’m about ready to read something like that. I will check it out, thanks for the recommendation.
LiveNow, this what my friends and family tell me too, that I’m stuck because I’m still married and that I need to get a D. I don’t know if it would change anything for me though. Maybe it will, but I’m just like you, not willing to do H’s work for him right now. I want him to do it. I’m ready for it. I’m just not ready to take an action.
This upcoming wedding of H’s niece just would not get off my mind. When I’m in a good mood I think that I need to send a card. It will show that I’m a better person than them. It will probably make me feel good about myself too. Then, I get angry and think that they will not hear from me ever again. Then I get indifferent and think that in no way this event impacts my life or my son’s life, it is just like a bad dream.
This is exhausting… But, an interesting part is that I don’t feel like a victim anymore. I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that I made the wrong choice when I married H. I could have had a lot better life with a family that would accept me and H who would care. I also catch myself of being angry and intolerant of people recently. Watch out… I might be entering into my own Midlife Crisis, folks. Should be interesting...
Bright, Bright, I wanna say good night!
Seriously, I am so corny tonight. Ummm... really... I haven't posted much in the last week. BUT... I'm thinking of you! Hoping you are well. I am tired and going to try to SLEEP!!!! It's not so easy...
But I will catch up with you later. Just wanted to give you a quick shout-out! Good night!
Bright,
People do not understand how divorce can create grief. People think grief only applies to someone passing away. We each have gone through the grieving process and it takes time. Each person moves through the stages in their own time. Right now, you are still experiencing anger. Feel that anger and let it go.
Your family only wants what is best for you and they think a divorce is the answer. Nothing will change for a long time because no matter what, you still have to go through the grieving process.
As for sending a card to the upcoming bridge/groom. I would hold off on that unless you were sent an announcement/invitation. Wait until the ceremony has taken place and if you still want to send something, then do it. Even though you are being very thoughtful in thinking of sending a card, to them, it might look like you are angling for an invitation. Just my two cents.
Be kind to yourself. You can't rush the grieving process and please don't allow others to convince you that you can.
Job, I was thinking exact same thing about the card. I was not going to send it ahead of time, I would only send it after the wedding. I’m not expecting an invitation, and it is late anyway, the wedding is this weekend. If I send a card (have not decided on it 100% yet), it would be my way of saying that I’m a bigger person.
Thanks for your kind words again. I’m feeling better these days, just trying to process some new feelings that started to surface. Cannot fully explain what they are yet. I’m patient though.
BF been catching up on your threads -
& others! You've been strong on that bumpy, bumpy ride ... in spite of it all!! You handled so much quite well. (Been reading books & threads & books & threads &, &, &! - oh my spinning head! )
Just 'came by' to
offer continued support , will drop in later on. Take care BF, pb.
Thanks, pb.
I mailed H his mail. Among other things, there was a Jury Duty envelope for him and his truck registration reminder from the state where it is registered (I guess the contact address is still here.) I sent it priority mail which comes with tracking number. I saw it got there on Thursday. It goes to his buddy’s office address (this guy gives him subcontracting work.) I’m pretty sure they at least notified him about the mail. BUT… Again… I don’t hear any “thank you for sending my mail” words… BTW, there was a Playboy in that mail too. And why would he not change his address to another state, so he could vote there and serve Jury Duty? Why is he still registered here? Oh, I know… There is not anyone who would be taking care of his mail and forwarding it to him when he goes to the vacation home for the winter. Then it would be in his best interests to at least let me know that received the mail.
Maybe I should start charging for the services and send an Invoice every time I send his mail. What an ungrateful a$$. I just cannot understand how this guy who was always very polite and acknowledged any favors to him from other people, can become this kind of j!rk. I wish I would know the reasoning he has for this. There has to be one.
He is supposed to travel today, so he could attend the wedding tomorrow. I’m glad it is tomorrow, so after that I can put it behind me for good.
Heather, you've been at this for how long? Do you think it just took time for you to realize that you don’t want to be married to this guy, regardless of somebody pushing you to do this? And even then, you say that “I'm not sure I would ever be able to be married to him again...” So, you are not discounting this possibility 100%. So, what gives? If he would want to come back, would you find some excuses why this time it would be better and he is not damage and worthless after all? Just asking… Just trying to understand why I have so much resistance when I get an advice “just divorce him already and everything will get in place”, and why some people welcome this kind of advice and say that they need to be “pushed”.
Bright,
First off, I really don't have an opinion on what's best for you in your situation. I respect the he!! outta anyone on this board-including you. We all know heartbreak in a profound way and we are all doing the best we can to move forward.
I'm sorry if you felt offended in any way by what I said.
Let me make this clear. I will always...ALWAYS love my husband. And, I will always consider him, in some way...my husband. I cherish the vows we took.
IF Smokey called me today and said..."I'm going to rehab. I want back in" I would, without question, support him in getting the help I feel he needs. I would try to be there for him. Would I be his wife again in the same I was before??? NOT A CHANCE. I'm different now. He would have to do some heavy lifting and deep trenching to catch up to me now.
In my case...my H has been in a relationship with another woman for 3 years now. He has virtually disappeared from our lives and caused some major financial havoc with his inconsistencies. I have been forced to take some legal action in order to protect myself and the kids.
I really believe that the vows two people take are very sacred, intimate and between those two people only. All I know is that, for me, it's been an important part of the journey for me to stand up for my rights. Smokey has struggled with substance abuse since a teenager. Addicts are fabulous manipulators and I was expertly manipulated for years and years. The distance I've maintained in the past six months or so, especially, have given me a new perspective.
This process, for me, has been about reclaiming my power...I've needed to reach a point where I stop apologizing, crying over spilt milk and get on with living my life.
I'm not saying that MY Way is the only way...But, I do think the key to this process isn't about focusing on the MLC-er...but, focusing on ourselves. I allowed someone to drive my bus for a long time...even when he was out partying, having sex with the OW, going on vacations without me, spending our money on someone else, etc...where was I?? I was home crying over my lost love.
Do I think he is worthless? Not a chance. He is one of the funniest, silliest, smartest people I ever met. Am I going to put MY life on hold any longer for someone who has made it clear as a neon sign he doesn't want me in his life? Nope.
He knows where to find me. He has my number. If and when he is ready to do the work, he can give me a call. Until then, I may just go on another date with the Forester.
Hey Bright. Sorry you are still dealing with some of this. It is so frustrating to see how disrespectful they can be to us for no reason. He is one mixed up guy (one of many...).
Is there anyway you could change his address to the one you are fwd it to? Or ask him to? That is such a pain to always have to do that. Maybe tell him to or you will mark, "return to sender." It is not fair for him to expect you to continue to do that for him.
Honestly, it sounds like he just doesn't care much about the mail. If he is depressed, it is probably one of his biggest concerns. I believe when you feel so lost and confused, you tend not to worry much about things. You are so unfocused, and think that as long as it is not imminent or dire, you don't really bother until you really need to.
I'm sorry you are still struggling with some thing. I feel like I will for awhile, too. I get better, but then I cycle back. It is a long haul for us lbsers, that's for sure. I think there a different factor that come into play as to how we move along in this. You will get there, Bright. Find a way to do it without focus on him. You got this. Just like AJ told me, it is a matter of perception. I am going to keep practicing this. I am trying to take myself out of things and look at if from an outside perspective. Easy for me to say this after coming off (or during??) quite an emotional week where I've been quite.... reactive. But, I try to change my perception- it gets me grounded quicker. I am hoping it moves me right along. Chin up, Bright!
Bright,
I read your words again this morning and I think I have a better grasp of what you were asking. I'm sorry if I overreacted. Filing for divorce is the last thing I EVER wanted to do and I'm sensitive over it.
You and I have been at this about the same amount of time. And, I know you deeply love your H.
If you are feeling pressure on these boards to do one thing over another...you can ask people to back off. I've had to clarify my feelings, from time-to-time, in order to empower myself and remember that I the only one making these decisions. It's a heavy burden.
You, my friend, are a wonderful lady. You deserve all the beauty and fun the world has to offer. Whether you do this married or single isn't my concern...as long as you allow yourself to enjoy the life you've been given.
Honestly, if it weren't for the financials and the kids...I may not file. For me, this is the smartest, soundest decision for right now.
I trust the opinions on these boards. In MY case, Smokey was pretty messed up before he ventured into the tunnel. I remember Bea once said that MLC-ers come in two varieties: people that always had serious issues but managed to fake it for years and years OR people that really had great marriages and, then, Snapped.
Smokey was always messed up. I knew that then. I loved him and hoped for the best.
You are going to be OK. You are loved no matter what you decide.
Don't compare your situation to anyone's but your own. I think Job and others have commented that your H seems to be of the gentle variety and tries to reach out to you for silly reasons. That's a good thing.
No one says that about Smokey...Job has commented that he will probably be one of those that just remains lost. I trust this opinion. It fits with what I know.
I've had to get honest with myself, in my case, that Smokey has been somewhat content with his new life. While I've been pining for him...he has settled into a new life for himself with someone else. Yes, it bites...but, it's not stopping me from starting a new life of my own.
Bright, you handle this...one way or another.
Bright,
I know that you and I have had a discussion about the mail situation before, but have you considered asking your h to put in a change of address, i.e. a post office box in the town where he normally would pick up his mail instead of his buddy's office address? It can get expensive and it does put a burden on you to get the mail packaged up and sent on to him, etc.
I sense that this mail situation is a connection that you are hesitant to end, but at some point, you'll need to decide whether or not it's a good thing for you because it appears that there is some resentment in the fact that he doesn't acknowledge your efforts with "thank you for sending my mail". If this resentment continues to grow, it's going to eat at you and you don't need the frustration. Your h takes you for granted and "assumes" that you will take care of his mail for him and will send it on to him and yes, even get emails from you advising him of what's important in the package.
He's depressed and doesn't think about the consequences of his actions, i.e., not changing his address, etc. In a way, the mail is a connection to home, a home he's not lived in for quite a while, but he needs to have his mail come directly to him and be a big boy about this. Forwarding mail on to someone and having to send it certified or registered mail can get expensive. You might gently remind him of the expense if he should post a "thanks". If he offers to pay you, accept the money and then let it go. In his foggy mind, he may not realize the costs involved in getting his mail forwarded to him.
Bright, you and only you can determine what's best for you in your current situation. However, I do sense that you are harboring a lot of resentment and some rumblings of anger these days and your h and his family have been taking up a lot of your head space and I think it may be due, not only to the mail, but the wedding. I don't see you putting the wedding behind you after today. It's still going to be something that is in the back of your mind and you'll think about it periodically and the anger/resentment will bubble up. Feel the emotions and then let them go. Yes, it hurt that neither you or your son were invited, the bride and her mother evidently made some choices that weren't thought out and I'm sorry about how this went down for you and your son.
Bright, you will know when you've had enough and want to move forward. No one can tell you when to do this. One of the hardest things to do when reading other threads is not to compare your situation to theirs and try to pigeon hole your situation w/theirs. You can't put a round peg in a square hole. Each situation is different because of the personalities, history and dynamics involved around the break down of the relationship, therefore the advice may or may not be a good fit for each and every poster. Take what you can from the advice and leave the rest in the dust. If something isn't working, try something different.
Heather, thanks you for coming back and clarifying your post. I know that I overreact too. This probably was the case when I replied on Shining’s thread. And I had my response yesterday, but didn’t post. I’m glad I didn’t. This morning I have a more reasonable response, I hope.
Heather, I’m not in any way offended by what you said. My response was more to kml’s post. I have a problem when people tell other people what to do before they can go through the process on their own, I admit that. I value kml’s opinion as much as some other vets here, but their responses surprise the heck out of me sometimes. Your reply to that post was that you agreed with that you need to be pushed to do certain things. I don’t think so. You’ve gone a long way to get to where you are now, and I admire that. So, other people need that time too. I absolutely agree with what you say here. And believe me, I’ve been there… I had my first xh, who is the father of my son, to disappear out of my son’s life. He never gave a sh!t about him, except when it was for a show. He never contributed anything to my son’s education or anything else.
My second H raised my son from age 8, and now he’s also disappeared out of my son’s life.
So, I get it… I get it all. I can’t say that I will always love my first xh. I just don’t. He was (and is) a selfish SOB and he cheated on me. It was my decision to D him, and I’m glad I did. So, I do have an experience in making that kind of decision.
With the second H it was different. I think I was more mature and I did love him in a different way, in more mature way I would say.
The point is that I had a problem with klm’s post questioning Shining why she would not file for D herself. My problem is with the advice from some veterans on this board, especially the once who've been here for a loooong time, when they say that LBSs should not waste their time analyzing, over thinking, waiting, etc. about their WASs, because they know from their experiences that IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. Well, did THEY listen to the advice when they were going through this? I’m sure they did have this kind of advice. But, they did what they had to do, they needed time to come out on the other side wiser. So, why not to allow other people to do the same?
And the point is that I’m not saying that their advice is wrong, I just want to know why.
Heather, sorry, if I came across as harsh or sounded offended. It is not about you, you just happened to respond to that post agreeing with the point. In no way I’m saying that you were wrong. I’ve been following you for some time (even though I don’t post much) and I know how much you’ve accomplished and how far you’ve come. I also agree with you that in your situation you are choosing what is best for you and your girls. I admire your strength and determination. You too are an absolutely wonderful lady.
Maybe I should not read other threads when I’m frustrated. This was one of the times when I come to this board for support and start looking for something that would give me the answers. This was one of these times when I felt disconnected from the world, nobody to talk to, nobody who cares. So, maybe I overreacted, maybe it was a subconscious way to get some attention. Very often I feel invisible on this board.
I’m not that exiting of a poster as some, my sitch in pretty stagnant, I’m not posting too much of insightful stuff about myself, hence not giving other people an opportunity to give me an advice and I’m not very stubborn either (like Makingmagic, LOL.) A lot of my posts are just ignored. Sometimes I feel plain stupid, like I don’t belong here.
I don’t want to complain. There are a number of wonderful people who check up on me pretty regularly, including a couple of vets like Job and Bea, and I’m very grateful. I guess at this point I just feel stuck. I’m trying to find the way out. I don’t know if I make sense here.
Heather, I really appreciate that you came back to post to me. It means a lot. Thank you.
Mighty, he has an office address where he works. I know that he is renting a room too. He did it last year too, from a different guy and he asked me to forward his mail to that address. But, when he is done working (cannot do the work in the winter over there), he goes to live in our vacation home in Mexico. He does have a PO box in a border city close to that place (2 hour drive to the border.)
He prefers his mail coming to my house, so he would not have to worry about re-addressing it 2 times a year and asking somebody to check in both places when the address is not changed on time. I’m a very reliable source for this.
Job, yes, this subject keeps coming back. Well, this is almost the only thing I can discuss these days, since there is pretty much silence from H. It also shows that I need to work on my ability to say “NO”. When I think about what I wrote above and how inconvenient it would be to have the mail constantly redirected to different places, I’m hesitant to push H to take an action. I guess I just feel sorry for him. Plus, this is not that big of a deal for me, to send his mail once a month. And it only cost me about $6, it is not going to break me. I only mentioned that I need to start charging him for it because I hope it will make a point and remind him that this is not my duty, I’m doing him a favor. Most of the time I’m ok with that, but sometimes I get angry and just want him to disappear.
I think that you are right that the mail is also one of the things for H to keep connection to home (besides the convenience.) There are other things… I guess the new “phase of life” after me is not quite happening in the way H had envisioned.
Job, I’ve been thinking about growing resentment about this. And anger… I’m trying hard to process it and let it go. Your support is invaluable. I know I will get to the other side, I can feel it. I had this image in my head that I’m like a train, which was going solid and steady on the road of life. Then it got derailed and was on its side for some time. And now it is back on track, but it is picking up its speed very slowly. Too slow sometimes… But it is getting there…
Bright,
Your train didn't derail, it's going up a mountain and it takes time to build up the pressure/steam to move along. You are the little engine that continued to say "I think I can, I think I can" until he made it to the top. This is how I see you.
Yes, you are going to have days that you feel resentment and anger. Try work through these emotions and let them go. You do not want them to fester and then explode when something small may occur.
We don't know what your h is thinking about these days. He may be sitting in a corner w/the shades pulled and only coming out to do his job. If he's depressed, he can't think about anything but himself and how he feels. He doesn't have the energy to think about what is going on in the world around him. When he is w/his friends, he very well may put on a happy face, but once he's alone, back in his room, that happy face is replaced w/the depressive one. It takes a lot of work to keep up the "happy" face for others.
Bright, you will know when it's time to build up steam and take the next boost up the mountain. No one can tell you how to do that or when. You are the only one that has the power to make that decision.
Hi, Bright,
First, I sincerely want to thank you for your post on my thread the other day. I believe I knew your intention was to support my standing. I love what you wrote above, in clarifying your post, and that each LBS needs to do this in their own time and their own way to grow and make the decisions they need to make. I admit, I was a bit taken aback by the encouragement I received to go ahead file myself....It bothered me to read that. I'm starting to dig deeper when I feel bothered. So I went and read a few poster's threads, thinking it would help me learn where they're each coming from. Doing that was very telling. They had some terrible things happen, obviously, and I could guess what they were trying to tell me based on their painful experiences, and on their growth. Knowing that only
I know my own sitch 100%, I try to remind myself that others only see a tiny "snapshot" into my world. I'm trying not to take things personally, because I know people can come across through their writing differently than they intend. But, since everyone here has their own experience, too, and lived through different problems, I began to see that, although it was a blunt, direct, almost confrontational comment, I had to consciously choose to look at it from the perspective that someone was trying to show me another way to see my own sitch. I know I can get stuck in viewing things only one way. It is a very unique thing, this board. The different personalities and styles.... I choose to believe everyone is here to help. Whether they are or not, that's on them. Some of those styles are not my style...lol... But, often it is the different styles that make us uncomfortable enough to think differently. It opens our minds, if we can get past the hurt ego, ugh. Yeah, my ego hurts a lot. I seem to have added to my diet, a big helping of humble pie.
Second, I am sorry you sometimes feel "invisible" on the boards. That is an awful way to feel. I don't know for sure why some threads have more or less posts than others. I have followed you since I came here, but I haven't gone through your threads with that question in mind....so I'm not going to speculate. For me, I have noticed that when I'm just journaling, I may have less people post to my thread. But, when I struggle or ask specific questions, typically someone out there will contribute, or direct someone with that experience to contribute. BF, please don't assume your thread is less interesting, or that you need to be exciting to get help. There are insightful people here ready to jump in....just ask. And then if no one answers, bump and ask again. Might not be the timing you want, but I'm sure someone will chime in.
Ok, here's one other "theory", if you will....oftentimes, you will receive advice from job and bea, who are of the most knowledgable, educated people on MLC. They offer some of the best advice of everyone here. I know for me, when job or bea post to you,
I ain't following that, lol!! I'll make more effort to let you know I'm following, if that would help. From what it seems, and gauging by the number of views listed for your threads, you have many, many people that follow. We can't really know why some post and some don't.
Your reference to MakingMagic made me laugh....somewhere there is a wall signed by all here who have beaten their heads against it...
You are not stupid. <<<<<THAT is stinkin' thinkin'. You belong here as much as anyone else. No 2x4 from me.....Lovingly, I'm "wafting" a firm, but gentle slap....no, love-tap upside your head. You are hard on yourself. I get it, I am the same. Don't do that to yourself. You are one bright, sincere, caring, and loyal person. Hang in there, Bright. We can come out of it greater than before. (And I said "we", because I'm in it....ooohhhhh, I'm so in it. ).
((((Hugs)))))
Shining <3
OMG, Shining! I totally didn't expect this. Thank you for validating my feelings and telling me that I’m not the only one to perceive things in certain way. I would probably do the same if something like that was posted on my thread, because I do appreciate all the opinions and try not to take things personally.
I’m not much of a person who journals, it just doesn't come easy to me. I process everything in my head and by time it could make it to the paper, it is kind of done. So, when I post, most of the time I want an opinion or a question answered. I always get the questions answered, that is for sure. I just don’t know if I just cannot get the point across when I need an opinion. My guess is that at this point of time there is not much that people can offer in terms of my sitch. And I probably seem to be pretty content most of the times. And I’m. There are moments when I need help, but I recognize that my sitch is a lot better than others on this board in terms of not dealing with the spews, not having little kids to take care of, not having financial issues (not anymore!), not being worried about H’s spending money like crazy (because he is not), not dealing with the feelings about OW (because there is not one I know about.) But, at the same time this means that I have waaaay too much time for “stinking thinking”.
Shining, thank you again for taking time to post your thoughts. Today is the day I can use some attention and care.
Surprisingly, I’m not feeling angry or down about the wedding today. I have some images running through my head. But, I’m pretty calm.
Job, I don’t know what it is, but I have the same picture about H. I don’t advertise this here, so not to get 2x4 every time, but I have access to a lot of stuff about H. I do check the credit cards periodically, to be sure that he is not going crazy about the money. What I’ve seen so far is that he’s been very conservative with the spending. He doesn’t take a lot of cash either. Unless he is having some other source of cash, I would say that he is pretty much just gets out there to work and eat. This is quite unusual, because he normally does golf and goes to the local concerts. There is no evidence of OW. Unless she is a sugar momma and spends money on him, LOL.
I also think that he is not that happy and that he is thinking about me today. My BIL who lives here is also at the wedding today. I hope he tells H about how wonderful it is to have holidays with me and my family and how all his friends now think how cool I am. That should rub some salt on H’s ego. I’m sure he misses all of it. I know that he told this to my other BIL (my sister’s H) in the text recently that he misses spending time with them.
My son is coming for dinner tonight. I’m glad he is not bothered by these weddings. He told me that he doesn't care. I hope it is true.
I will have a drink to the H’s niece tonight (without bringing it up) and I will try to let it go.
I’ve said before that I’d much rather have regrets that I held on too long, than to have regrets that I gave up too soon. That whole turning over every stone to save our marriage thing.
So, here I am asking for help, like Job promissed some time in one of my therads, to post here when H contacts me again and "we help you come up with the reply". So, today is the date when H transfers money to my account for the condo payment. He texted "Transferred xxxx to your account." Five minutes later I got another text "Thanks for the mail". Wow, I got appreciated... Like he read my recent posts...
I'm thinking to reply "You are welcome. Thanks for letting me know about the money". Or, shoud be more elaborate?
Bright - I'm no vet or 'expert', but I'd just say 'You're welcome' and leave it at that. I know I am guilty of overanalyzing e-mails or texts I get from H, and sometimes it's just clearer to those outside the sitch what might be best to do. With a simple 'you're welcome,' you're both being polite, but that's really about it, nothing more, nothing less. Seems appropriate for the circumstances. Just my 2 cents...
LiveNow, thanks for the advice. This has been my response for some time. I was told here before that if nothing works, change what you are doing. Just trying to see if I should look at this from a different prospective and change my responses.
It doesn't look like I am going to get other replies in the next few min, so I am just going to send what posted. I don't want to have to much between my response to him, it's already been 3 hours.
"You're welcome."
"See if you can guess what I'm wearing right now."
Bright - true, if not working, try something else. I like FY's response! Try that! Would love to hear the result! LOL
Bright,
Your response was a good one and it was simple, i.e., nothing over the top.
BTW, I'm glad he recognized your efforts in forwarding his mail on to him.
Hi Bright. Sorry I didn't see this sooner. But, I know I wouldn't have had the right thing for you to reply, anyway. I stink at that. Lately, if xh says thanks, I don't even reply.
That is not at all what I am recommending for you at all!!! Totally different sitch. But I think simple and polite says enough.
I am glad he took a second and acknowledged your helping him out. He truly sounds like one of those who just lays low. I think he probably appreciates it, but it is a lot for him to reach out. At least he took the time to do so when he was communicating. I think that shows he does think about it. At least that is a relief, right?
Well, I hope you are doing well. I hope you are finding ways to keep yourself moving along and find some internal peace and happiness.
Thanks so much for your support this weekend. I really needed it. It means the world to me, seriously.
Keep your chin up, Bright!
BF,
I see you are indeed
'Doing all right' since I last read here! Happy that h acknowledged mail sitch!!
It seems as though the general rule of thumb re: MLCer is not to not go 'over the top' re anything ... even
slightly (!), as their 'meter readings' tend to reflect more overall sensitivity (re verbal feedback, enthusiasm re reaching out to LBS, etc). Conventional wisdom is to keep interaction polite, be nice, but not too effusive. A 'trim the fat' approach.
Take care & keep at it BF! (you've got your name to live up to!)
pb
Update.
Went to vacation home last weekend. My male friend over there turned 60. It kind of put the things into perspective. His wife is 34, and their kid is not even 2. There were other friends visiting, who actually organized a small party. I was pulled into the conversation about H, again. It started just with the questions, but turned out to be an “advising, what to do” session. I was asked again why don’t I divorce H, why I would not leave the condo to H, I was told that my son will get over the whole thing and I should not worry about him. I was asked if I’m dating and I was told how it is just OK when people split up but still maintain the common friends. Now, this is from the couple who were never divorced (first and long lasting marriage for both, even though not without arguing and bickering), and who don’t have kids.
When I was leaving the vacation place yesterday, I was thinking that maybe they are right and I’m just a bad, stupid person again. I know, stinking thinking… I started to think that I do need to file for D and never go to the vacation home again. I’m so fed up with this.
When I was leaving for the vacation home on Friday, I received a text from H, saying that he “had” to pay him, and that now the company taxes are due. He said that he sent me a file. The text “sounded” like he was not that happy to send it. I was driving at that time, so didn’t respond until I had to stop before crossing the border. I replied to him saying that I was on my way to the vacation home and that I would take care of the taxes when I get back. I asked him if the pay day was on that day. He replied “yes”. I sent another text saying that I think I have until Wednesday to pay the taxes (they have to be paid in the next few days after the payroll.) There was no reply to that. I thought that he was not happy that I was going to the vacation home. Before my first reply I was thinking that he would be happy for me and wish me a good trip, then I would tell him about his friend’s B-day (I don’t think he remembered.) Since he just replied “yes”, I decided not to mention anything. I’m not his mother to remind him about his friend’s B-days.
I suspected that he was not in a good mood, because he said he “HAD” to pay himself. I know that he had, because he run out of money and would not have any to pay for the condo next month. But he also didn’t make as much money on the company books as he hoped for. Oh well, not my problem.
So, considering all that happed during my time at the vacation home and his grumpy texts, I was having these thoughts that I should just do something to end this. I was seriously thinking about filing for D, telling him to stop any mail to my house, removing all my stuff from the vacation home and not going there again.
When I came back home yesterday, I opened his e-mail with the file. And… there was a completely different tone. He addressed me by name, informed me about the payroll for him and asking me if I could pay the taxes, and if not to please send him the necessary documentation, so he could “attempt to do it” himself. He put his usual (good mood usual) “Hope all is well”. But then… in PS he asked me the QUESTIONS… “How was vacation home over Labor Day? Everything OK with the Condo?”
So, I guess he knows I was at the vacation home a few weeks ago from his brother (my BIL), who went to the wedding last week. I guess there was a talk about me. I wonder if BIL told all the family how he keeps close to my family and how we have good relationship and good times together. I’m curious if they were surprised.
Not sure what prompted H to ask these questions. It’s been a while since he wanted to know anything about me. Maybe he was just trying to be polite because he was asking me a favor?
So, what do I do now? Do I reply with some good news about my time at the vacation home? I think I will. At this point I just don’t care anymore if it will be DBing or not. I would reply to a friend. It is just this made me to take a step back again and question my readiness to file. I will give it a few days to see what happens with my feelings. I either will be back into the standing mode, or I will get more angry and determined.
Bright,
Your friends and family mean well...but you need to learn to cut them off at the pass. When they begin asking questions or providing "advice", tell them that you appreciate all of their concern, but you will determine what is best for you and then change the subject. They are not walking in your shoes, hence, they don't understand what you are going through. Until they do the walk, they'll continue to offer free advice at every corner. Shut them down in a polite way.
As for your h, I would respond back to his text, just as you would an old friend. There is no harm in that. He asked you about your time away and I would share a bit w/him. Open the door just a little bit and maybe the communications w/him will get him to post more often.
Please do not allow others tell you what to do when it comes to how you are living your life.
BTW, I think I'm the 100th poster on your thread. Time to think about a new thread.