old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2466594&page=11Hi Matt... tx for your concerns. I am watching & listening. I will be "partner" in the business I created with him. However, HE is trying to purchase the location from which we currently operate from. My only concern was how much he will charge OUR business to be on HIS property. I am not going to be held captive to a ridiculous amount of rent. He promised me he will be reasonable. Buying from an unreliable crack head has him spinning. However, he is a smart person and will not be unprotected. He told me that he will create another company so that he could be separate from the one we operate from. I believe this would protect me & my interest.
Hi Sandi... Yes, I think he should respond directly as well, however the invite came through to our email. In a few days I will ask him to respond himself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last night: He was clearly stressed out & teary eyed about his life & his desire to get this property. He views it as a saviour to his sanity. This turned into a bit of R talk. I pointed out that I gave up on him a month ago. That I was disappointed that he didn't appreciate the gesture to reconcile.. He said that he has been soo busy (wrapped up in his deal), that he didn't know/see it. He is very overwhelmed. I told him that if the situation was reversed and he was the one suggesting reconciliation and it was not recognized that he would give up too. He said he noticed that I got "cold" from after our make out session and he didn't know what to make of it. (Guess he noticed my pull away). He "says" that he is still open to working on us AFTER the real estate deal is done. He has visions of this current location/operation as a "family business". He really enjoyed our dates/time spent as he felt relaxed and was having a nice time with me. For right now, he just can't handle any more. He was hopeful for more of that "after" he puts his mind to rest about his real estate deal. Then he wants to finalize our financial situation. much like he said before, get our deal behind us (he can't imagine arguing while seeing each other again), he doesn't want anyone to think that he swayed me by spending time with me "during" the process. Then he wants to spend time relaxing and seeing where things stand with us then. <<<< this confuses me. He feels pressure & his usual "i dunno" position. He was anxious to go & end the convo too. I kept the convo going because I wanted to be heard. I am not sure he was actually capable of hearing me. As he mentioned how his thoughts shift back to his real estate stuff while we are talking.
He says he's pretty sure that he knows how good we had it together & really enjoyed our life and time together & that even one of our clients mentioned to him just the other day how they could see our connection. I mentioned the "water your own grass" theory... he liked it. However, he feels that he hasn't quite put himself out there to know for sure. He feels that I have quite the social life, where he does not & still wants to have one...when his "chit show" is over & he can relax. Right now, he does not like to be around happy people or watch movies with happy couples. The other night he went out for an 1.5 hours & enjoyed himself. They said he looked 43! He liked that. He then felt good having an excuse to leave as his mom was home alone. He's not in the mood to fully be social.
At the end of the convo, I stated that I am not wasting my time waiting for him & that he needs to go figure his chit out. He admits he is completely confused and not ready to give it the time to put effort into the R that it needs/deserves. He kept saying he is not ready. I said I am not pushing him to "get ready" To go figure himself out & that he's too screwed up. I leaned in on his car & stated generally "do u really have to completely lose someone before you realize they are gone?" he replied "i guess so"..... again, I could see he was no longer receptive & paying attention to the convo.
He is like a dog, can only chase one stick at a time. He needs to be alone. He is being honest. How can he truly invest in a relationship when he has so many other things on the go that completely stress him out?
This is a lot of stress for him & he is pretty much at the end of his rope. He is expressing pure frustration with this real estate deal with reason. It truly is a "jerry springer show" with all of the unknown & lies & hoops that he is jumping through. He is so exhausted. I am concerned as he expressed that he is concerned that his driving is affected by all of this as well. He has A LOT of anger & doesn't know where to place it.
I know he "SAYS" all of this, and I am not banking on any of it. I just don't believe he said it this time as bait. He is truly confused/overwhelmed and it is obvious.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I came in & discussed it with my daughter last night & my friends today... they feel that I did well and held my ground & self value. My stomach tells me differently. I can't help but "feel" for him... "feel his pain". I hope that some of my comments made it through to him.
Dear MM,
He didn't hear you at all. Once again, it was "all about HIM!". Life is a series of "stressful" events. There will ALWAYS be something that is stressing him. None of what he said explains how he only wanted you for "fun and sex", oh, wait, not even the fun! This is typical MLC behavior. You stopped pursuing him and now he wants you to start again so he can reject you again. There is a thread on this somewhere on this site and it is important reading especially in your sitch!
Don't get me wrong, you did well in your talk. Just remember "Believe none of what they say and half of what you see". He needs to deal with his situation with his mom and RE deal. None of that is any reason to discard a long R and start treating you the way he did.
I had several talks like that with my W before she left. Not only did she do a 180 just a little while later, she had no recollection of having said any of it. Even would say she never said such a thing. His chit show is not even close to over as it really has nothing to do with his RE deal or his mom's problems or the price of gas.... he is in crisis and isn't close to coming out yet. keep up with the detaching (he did notice) but don't do it just to get him back (hard distinction but important) do it for YOU. You have just really started to drop the rope and he has already noticed. The trick is until you drop it "for you", not to "get him" back, it won't work. All that will happen is once he thinks he has you back where he wants you, he will go right back to his Chit show!
You are doing much better MM. Keep moving forward. Don't let the fact that the progress you have made that is making a difference stop you from keeping going. At the beginning it's hard. You see a change and think "Oh, maybe he's coming back to his old self" so you stop and BAM!, things haven't really changed. Use this as a sign that dropping the rope and detaching is working because he see's the changes in YOU. You are a better person now and will be a better and better person as you move forward. Keep going!
Hi MM
I have never replied to your thread, but wanted to chime in. Just had a few thoughts.
Number one, stop making excuses for him. I did this for years with my ex, and now I can see what I did. This is called enabling. He does bad let him own the bad WITHOUT taking on the responsibility.
Number two, your thread is dripping with co-dependency. This:
"I can't help but "feel" for him... "feel his pain". I hope that some of my comments made it through to him."
Is codependent. Stop feeling sorry for him. He made his bed, let him lie in it.
I am not trying to mean, just direct.
Concentrate on you, not him.
WH
MM,
I did go back and read a couple of your early threads and you have progressed which is great. However, you still focus on xbf too much.
I know you had another ciruclar R conversation and I did want to point out one thing. "Fogginess" or "confusion" does not excuse or negate bad behavior and disrespectful treatment.
Tx Matt - I am not sure where to feel good about my convo. I did try to continue the convo much after he wasn't invested anymore & feel it was a backslide. And he was still insistent about "i dunno & not ready yet" comments. Although I did not ask him anything about reconciling... just that I had tried 3 weeks ago & wasn't noticed. Please tell me where I did well in my talk?
WH... thanks for chiming in... Yes, I know I am co-dependent & am working on it. Recognizing it is a big step for me. I will continue to concentrate on me & leave him in his mess (that he made...his choice).
Yes... keep moving forward for ME. I must let this pass & not dwell on any of it. Although I am reviewing it all today.... I must focus on my needs & pursue them. Dropping the rope & detaching was working... I need to continue this. I will NOT STOP because he noticed.
"In a few days I will ask him to respond himself"
why wait a few days?? this screams of manipulate/control/punishment/fear/immaturity. and makes absolutely no sense.
also, if it were addressed to both of you, or the business, then its not odd that he asked you to respond for him. If its your role to manage that email account then its a perfectly acceptable request on his part.
you seem to be drawing these convoluted ill-defined lines in the sand between what is work, what is personal and what is business.
" I gave up on him a month ago. That I was disappointed that he didn't appreciate the gesture to reconcile" " I am not wasting my time waiting for him "
and this is worded to make him feel guilty and remorseful. again manipulation/control/immaturity. He doesn't want you, accept this and move on.
Ken... thank you for your opinion, however feel that waiting a few days when he is not so emotional (after yesterday), would be better timed. It has nothing to do with manipulation or control...??? I am confident in my decision here.
It was not intentionally worded to manipulate him nor was my "wasting time" comment. I am pretty sure I know that I was not trying to make him feel guilty (at all) or remorseful. I was stating my fact. If he feels guilt.. thats his cross to bear. He needs to know that I am not waiting anymore... this is a guy who assumes I will still be there when he is ready. I may or may not be ...but he doesn't just get to assume.
I am not convinced (especially after yesterday) that he does not want me. His responses are clear that he does not know... therefore, HE does NOT KNOW> However, I am not holding my breath either. But, believe me...if he KNEW he did not want me...he would be saying so...with clear words! (much like BD). He has NEVER stated that he does not want me & that he is not open to reconciliation. He has ALWAYS stated this...... again, not banking on it!
Seeing his state of confusion...makes me want to run away from him. I will not let his confusion drag me down with him!! I do not like to see anyone suffer, but I realize it is part of his journey and not mine to fix. He has seen my growth and knows that he needs to repair himself. He feels he will do this... "after" when he can concentrate and focus.
One thing at a time.
Meanwhile, I like how I was detaching... I was starting to see some benefits for myself in doing so. I MUST KEEP GOING!
watch:
"MM, I gave up on you a months ago. I am disappointed that you don't appreciate the gesture of my time and opinions, I am not wasting my time waiting for you anymore."
This ^^^ is me trying to manipulate you by guilt, using your same sentence formation. its immature and controlling, its a child's tantrum.
it is also worded to make you feel inadequate and stupid. its also insulting.
instead, if i were to word it in a mature, self-respecting way i'd have given my opinions and then say: nothing. I'd have assumed you heard me, and are capable of making a decision on your own.
do you see the difference?
"however feel that waiting a few days when he is not so emotional (after yesterday), would be better timed."
this is trying to control. You're saying you're deciding when is "better timed". you're deciding when its better for HIM. that is controlling. youre making his decisions.
Hi GM... I agree.. however I think he is ready to snap! I don't think he can handle all his stress right now. Its larger than ever before. His verbal responses have matched his words, when he states he "doesn't know"... he flip flops. His responses match when he states he is focused on the real estate deal and can only handle one thing at a time.
I am not making excuses for him... I just see his position.
KenF... ok .. yup, i guess that is control.
Feel good that you didn't ask to get back together. Ken does have a point about some of it but I have seen in the past where you would have just let what he was saying make you feel like he really does 'want' you.
Now, the thing I don't like is where you say "He never has said he doesn't want me back". Yes, MM, he has. He said it in his actions and excuses for his behavior. I know it's hard but you really need to realize he just isn't capable of having anything close to a healthy R with you or anyone for that matter. He is all about him and if he wanted anything close to a real R he wouldn't keep making up reasons he "can't". When I go to a restaurant, I don't tell the waiter all the things on the menu I DON'T want. I clearly say "I want X". Just because he isn't saying "I don't want you and never will" doesn't mean he will EVER want anything close to what you do and what you deserve in a R! His mealy mouthed "Maybe when this or that happens I MIGHT be willing to try" is nothing but excuses. It's his actions, his saying why he DOESN't want to NOW that show you that he may never want you back. Again, you need to get to a place where if someday down the road HE decides he wants to try, you are able to decide if you will ALLOW him back in YOUR life. Right now you are allowing him to have all the power by wanting to be in HIS life.
Learn to love MM. Learn to have a life separate from him that you enjoy and are proud of living. Be the best MM WITHOUT him. You just may find you really won't want him back in YOUR life then.
Ken... I may have said it like that, but my intentions were not derogatory towards him. I stated my piece a few times.. and now will say no more.
I hope he heard me. That "something" will resonate for him. I am hoping that he will make HIS decision(s) based on his choices, not because he feels pressured by my statement.
I will say no more about this matter. I will continue as I was ... detaching. Pulling myself away from an unhealthy person.
Trusting in God.
"I hope he heard me"
of course he heard you. you've said it more than too many times. which is why he feels compelled make more and more excuses and to try to let you down easy. its classic passive-aggressive behavior.
gabby... I am working on letting go of his "words"...
Due to MLC and snapping ... I am hoping he turns into a changed man, or he will be useless to anyone. Haven't we all been waiting for our MLC'er to snap?
Oh, he brought up committed relationship again... he does realize he ultimately still wants that, in the end for himself. He does not consider himself a "bachelor"... not liking it.
I know I have NO reason to "believe" his "future type" comments...so, I am really trying to let go of them .... I will believe it when I see it.... right?
I just don't believe he said it this time as bait. He is truly confused/overwhelmed and it is obvious.
Why? How could you believe it's different this time? The words don't even change. You could save a lot of your time if you would copy and paste these discussions. Maybe you aren't seeing the repetition, b/c you are clinging to hope....but it's there.
He really enjoyed our dates/time spent as he felt relaxed and was having a nice time with me.
You've brought this more than once, but I can't remember you having dates. When were these dates he refers to?
I'm not trying to be ugly, Magic. But I just wonder if you have that need to go back through and rehash it again, or if that's what you're hearing, or if the two of you actually say word for word every time you talk to each other. It's just weird to me. I have never heard of so many conversations that never vary over a dozen words. Don't you find that a little strange?
And for pity sake, why did you have to tell him you were disappointed he didn't appreciate the gesture to reconcile? (You mean
your gesture.) Have you not been rejected enough? You put yourself out there for him to do it to you. That is not self value! You cheapen yourself every time you enter into one of these discussions with him, and it pushes you back to square one all over again.....b/c you've let him know you how you feel.
Hi Sandi...and GM...
GM - hmmm, yeah ... i still get stuck on his words. But I am "aware" of this now. I am not believing that snapping out of his MLC will fix everything... but, I do think it will HELP A LOT!!
Sandi ...
Really seeing his stress and anger in the last few days have led me to believe things are bottoming out for him.. He is super overwhelmed... and is not speaking rationally of things.. He wants vengeance on certain people.
I am not letting it change my course. He clearly stated that he noticed I have been "cold" for the past 3 weeks. I intend on continuing... its much healthier for me.
I told him I was disappointed that he did not recognize my gesture for reconciliation & therefore I had given up... 3 weeks ago. I did not let him know how I currently feel (not once, other than I love him & he loves me back). I am hoping that the conversation just reiterated that I DID let go... 3 weeks ago... and watch me continue. I am not falling back. I repeated several times that I gave up!!! I did not let him "think" that I was still available to him. He can think that if he wants... he kept mentioning that he was not ready, yet! and full of his "i dunno" comments.. he is so confused.... again.. he can think that if he wants... but, I am still on my way.
Sandi... HE keeps saying that he enjoyed our time... I never brought it up... he does. The "dates" he refers to.. is the time that we had to drive my daughter into the city. He was insisting that he travel with me & that we go for dinner while we are down there... he is referring to that. He wanted "time" with me. That time & another when we went for casual beer (after work) and another when we went as a family for dinner in the neighbouring town. He really enjoys (always did) my/our company. Yesterday, he said that he liked the downtown visit the most as he felt the most comfortable, unpressured & fun. I don't know why he keeps saying it.. I guess he enjoyed it...??? I never asked about any of it.. He keeps saying he'd like to have more like that.
3 weeks ago = currently
MM, 3 weeks ago is nothing, its a blink. when you hit the 3 month point of consistency, then you have a beginning. after 3 years, then you can consider it a real change.
what you also have to understand is, consider how much effort you've put in over the past 2 years to get to this point, which is really just the beginning of change for you. Well HE would need to "snap" (whatever that means) and then put in that same level of effort to change his issues. IF he ever gets to that point.
Hi Ken,
Tx for your posts. I can understand what you are suggesting... "IF" I didn't work with him every day.... 3 weeks is a very good start & it was HIM who mentioned he noticed. It is the beginning of a real change. I have & continue to drop the rope.
Yes, I understand just how far off... he is.
Hi Sandi,
I am beating myself up this morning... going over what you said:
Have you not been rejected enough? You put yourself out there for him to do it to you. That is not self value! You cheapen yourself every time you enter into one of these discussions with him, and it pushes you back to square one all over again.....b/c you've let him know you how you feel.
Did I backslide? I didn't start the R convo.... it graduated into one when he was expressing his stress & the toll caring for his mom was having on him. This is when I spoke & said "I thought we had prepared our lives to do this stuff together"... Then he turned it into more of the same convo of ... he doesn't know what he wants, he still has feelings for me, wants to help, but we argue, he doesn't want that, etc. Knows he wants to be back in a living/committed relationship again.. just not in that house. He doesn't know if its with me. He is not saying "NO" He is not against reconciliation (his words). I stated that I had given up 3 weeks ago. I kept trying to make my point but found myself listening to "his" dreams/desires for the future of the business. How he "sees" it to be a family run operation & some fun too. I listened. Not once did I ask "can we get back now", but did ask him what he wants... more "i dunno". I did state my disappointment that he did not appreciate MY offer of working on us 3 weeks ago & that all he would have had to say 3 weeks ago was "Yes, lets work on it"...this lead to more "I'm not ready & I dunno" comments. He may have even said sorry. I can't recall. He feels that I have had the time to learn & grow & had counselling and a social life, where he has not. I asked if he wants to see my councillor, he said "no, I think some time spent on my seadoo, is what I need" (suggesting carefree fun... time away from work & mom).
So Sandi, would you say that he rejected me again or was he just being truthful of his confusion/anxiety/feelings?. He is suggesting that he can only do one thing at a time.
His priorities:
#1) secure business location,
#2) finalize deal with MM (yes... he said he wants to finalize this)
does not want to mix finance with personal/reconcilliation for 2 reasons ...
1) fears others opinions (family/friends) would assume he was trying to sway
my decisions
2) fears that battling out our finances while dating would cause stress & arguments & wonders how we could do both? We are 80% finalized.
^^^^^ can someone explain this to me? is he just suggesting that he doesn't want this hanging over his head any longer? that it can finally be put to rest. Or am I missing a hidden agenda from a person who has proven to be selfish. I just don't want to bury my head in the sand here.
#3) Relax & have fun
#4) see where things are with MM.
Did I backslide? I didn't start the R convo.... it graduated into one when he was expressing his stress & the toll caring for his mom was having on him. This is when I spoke & said "I thought we had prepared our lives to do this stuff together"...
Yes, you did (backslide). This ^^^ is where you intentionally redirected the conversation into yet-another, 2,547th R talk with him.
It takes two to have a convo, MM -- stop making excuses. Own it, and resolve to do better next time.
Starsky
sigh, well that makes me upset. Tx, Starsky. Is it really really horrible? In your opinion did I say/do anything right?
him: today he is flat lined. I can tell he is drained. Physically & emotionally. I can tell by the tone of his voice.
Me: (working on my co-dependency) I WILL NOT ALLOW HIS mood affect mine!! (although I am already upset for my backslide now). I was really really really trying to not have any ERRORS!! NONE! I am beating myself up!!
MM,
Stop putting so damn much meaning into every damn thing he says! You still haven't gotten the number one rule "You can't believe a word they say and only half of what you see"! You know what I hear him saying? "I want to get all this stressful stuff out of the way so I can have fun"...stress the "I"! He is still all about him! He will no more "work" on the R after his RE deal is over as he will now. His mother's problems will be ongoing and will not end until she is no longer alive. Riding a Sea Doo is not a replacement for IC. If it was the "house" that stopped him from having a committed R then he would have suggested you BOTH move! (My W used this excuse as well. It was the "house" but she went and rented a house and didn't say "Well, let's have you move here with the kids and we can have a R". It's an excuse, nothing more!)Also of note is that the LAST thing on his list is "See where things are with MM".
One reason he keeps repeating himself is that he doesn't remember what he has said (or really care). While you spend hours and hours thinking about every word and trying to find "meaning" in each one, he is just saying what he MAY feel at that moment and it will change very quickly!
Look, I also see that my W is extremely "stressed". She is doing things that not only will end up hurting her but are hurting everyone she loves and loves her, even her own kids. I know that she is confused, stressed, under pressure, hurting, etc. Her GM has recently lost her mind to Alzheimer's, her mother is going through problems with her family over it and is leaning heavily on her, her work is more and more demanding, because she has moved she is low on cash, her father who she has always wanted in her life but never was and now is, is DYING of cancer, the list goes on. IT DOES NOT GIVE HER AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE AND CONTINUES TO DO TO ME AND OUR M!! You are buying what he is selling you and it's a load of crap! You do not add to your stress by dumping the one person who has stuck by you for 20 years unless you just don't give a damn about them! Add to this that he has insulted you by trying to keep using you for "just" sex, not even FUN, just sex and you get a picture of a truly messed up guy who only really cares about himself. Heck, the thing that most bothers him about his mother's sitch is how HE has to help her and all the stress that puts on him! Again, all about him!
You've made progress over the last few weeks. Don't let him con you into backsliding.
"... "IF" I didn't work with him every day"
does not matter.
many people on here LIVE with their Xs every day, sleep in the same house, same bed, etc.
the proximity makes no difference. The length of time of consistency matters.
again, its not about HIM. its about YOU. 3 weeks of being cold does not mean YOU have changed.
you seem to keep missing that this is all about YOU.
YOU NEED TO CHANGE. YOU have issues that need fixing. YOU need to change 40 years of habits. and this will not happen in 3 short weeks which contain setbacks and backsliding.
you insist on making this about HIM.
Matt165 - "One reason he keeps repeating himself is that he doesn't remember what he has said (or really care). "
the other reason is because even though he's said it in as many different ways as humanly possible, YOU HAVENT HEARD HIM YET.
HI GM...Tx... Rejection sux!
Hi Matt... yes, I have listened to his "words" however, I am trying to do as said & not believe it UNTIL I see it. I do take his words/analyze them & blah blah blah. My bad!! Yes, I do see that its all about him, his "I" statements. He has become very selfish. Who knows if he actually means what he says. I am trying to not pay attention to "words".
I have made progress over the last 3 weeks.. I understand Ken that its only the beginning... but it is a true genuine START! One that I was proud of. I have made changes in myself that I am proud of prior to the 3 weeks. But, its been the last 3 weeks where I stood up for myself by not accepting "just sex", backed off when it came to not interrogating about his mom's accident, not "being there", allowing him to manage on his own, not interrogating or asking questions about his real estate deal, not acting jealous of RE agent, not providing my opinion (when asked), and then 2 days ago... reiterating that I have given up!
Pulling away and remaining consistent is where I was succeeding. I continued yesterday when at work I suggested that he can leave early ... that I would finish off our shift, we both don't need to be there. <<< this is me, trying to pull away from him. Showing that I don't need to sit there, day after day... WITH him.
I am not intending on backsliding further. I am moving forward.
Today he was expressing his struggles to get his obligation for clients complete vs. taking his mom to the hospital. Both at same time. He was concerned how he would manage. I jumped in an offered to switch roles (I would take mom) so that he could manage the clients. Normally, I can manage the clients but this time it requires his attention.... so, I offered. Is this a backslide too?
" Is this a backslide too?"
depends.
if you did it hoping he'd see how wonderful you are and how he needs you and blah blah blah, then yes.
if you did it as one person to another person, without expectations of his returning the favor, then its fine.
NO... I did it to help out the work situation as we have a lot of deals on the go. I just thought it made sense.
I am upset today but am determined to see through the other side of this hell. I am determined to learn the lessons and to stand by myself on this journey. I know I want and deserve way more than he can possibly offer (especially right now). He is a mess to look at. I don't know why I still want him. I just do, and I love him too.
It would be sooooo easy to backslide & to find a way to insist we reconcile. BUT!! I am determined to have WAY better than what we had & I am striving for it. Why does it have to be such a struggle?? I am willing to continue through the other side, hoping for redemptive purpose. For all of this to have had a reason.
The reason: I am worth it.
Magic,
It wouldn't be such a struggle if you would just drop the rope completely and allow him to wallow in his own self-absorbed pity pot.
How many times have we advised you to walk away or not engage in relationship talks? If he brings up relationship during working hours, change the subject or cut the conversation short. Keep the focus on the business during the day.
He's stuck and until he can figure out how to get out of his rut, he's going to continue spinning his wheels and the conversations about the two of you will be the same over and over again, i.e., circular conversations. How to change that? Stop the madness and end the discussions politely and go on about your business.
There always be some excuse not to finalize the business situation that involves you. Next month, it'll be something else, like selling a large inventory or needing more inventory. The man has it good, why would he change a thing? Nothing's rocking his boat and he's going to continue floating on the pond and enjoying his ownership of his business. Yep, I said "his" for a reason.
Drop the rope, no more conversations w/him about the relationship. Don't have discussions about what you determined three weeks ago, etc. He's a big boy and he can figure out why you are moving forward and if he can't, they he's dumber than I thought he was. Telling you that you've been cold to him is his way of roping you back into his drama...ignore comments such as this and keep moving forward.
I had to laugh at your comment about "insist we reconcile". Magic, I hate to break it to you, but you have not have any control over this man and to even think you could insist he do something tells me that you've not drop the rope one bit. Let it go, allow nature to take its course. He'll either wake up and want you back and treat you the way you deserve or he'll continue to wallow and you'll be on the edge of the pond years down the road watching him float comfortably in his boat. Magic, you and only you, are the only one who can change the dynamics of your situation. No one else can do it for you.
DROP THE ROPE!
edit sixth paragraph to read:
I had to laugh at your comment about "insist we reconcile". Magic, I hate to break it to you, but you do not have any control over this man...."
Hi Job,
UGH!!! (punching myself!!!)
I didn't think I was indulging in R talk... until I was deep into it & thought it was my opportunity to state that I had given up. Pretty sure I said it a few times too. I regret the convo now. And I am beating myself up pretty bad now too. ALL DAY!
I agree that he has a tonne of excuses why my name isn't on the business, yet. HOWEVER... I do believe he wants to finalize it. It is another thing that is hanging over his head & he does want it dealt with. Yes, he feels it is "our" business now (8 years), but he wants MAJOR recognition that it was HIS before & because of being able to run off his already established business, he wants compensation! He does FEAR giving up control and that is probably why he has used stall tactics. I do not feel that he is using a tactic ATM because he is extremely invested in securing our business location & that has him spinning out of control. He views this property as sanity control & I see it, it does make sense.
No more R convos. No convo's of what happened 3 weeks ago... back to business only! He says he is in limbo. I will ignore the "cold" comment & the other comment about "if he thought I was with someone, it would deter him further".... I cannot be pulled back into his drama or be his puppet. He "said" A LOT this time, recalling a few other things... but, I cannot believe what he says!! RIGHT?
YA! I had to laugh at me too... I can insist all I want & still get no where.
...DID NOT PICK UP THE ROPE (looked at it, got close), but BACKED AWAY FROM THE ROPE!
Tonight, I was offering to help him with our abundance of work & when I called him it seemed to be bad timing. I was asking how I can help & was interested in how he was going to make it all happen. He was irritable & apologized (saying he has a lot on his plate). I think he is trying to stalk the "crack head seller" amongst getting his moms RX and its taking a toll on him. I was still trying to ask about our business and what was needed & he honked his horn, interrupted me, said he had to go & apologized again for his mood & he was anxious to get off the phone. <<< this set me back. I feel like he was protecting a lie. I don't like how it made me feel. I cannot assume. I cannot mind-read. I am letting it go. UGH!!! (going to go distract myself with TV with my DD).
^^^^^^ how does this affect a person who is truly dropping the rope? (does it not bother them, as it did me & then let it go (like I am)... or does it not even affect them... at all?
" but he wants MAJOR recognition that it was HIS before & because of being able to run off his already established business, he wants compensation!"
and he is absolutely correct in this thinking.
he ran the business without you for 12plus years, if i remember the timeline correctly. he created the company and kept it running. only recently (in the overall timeline) did you come and change the name and add in your time.
mathematically he ran the company for 12/20 years, thats 60% and was 1/2 owner for the remaining time = 20%, and likewise you were half owner for 20%.
If i were to divide up the company fairly, i'd give him 80% and you 20%.
HI Gabby.... really not sure... its not a pleasant thought. One thing would be to quickly sell through my inventory & get out!.... <<<< I am doing this! Selling as much inventory as I can.
Hi Ken ... except for the fact that a NEW business was created that is separate from the business he had. Its a spin off of his old business. We used his credentials & location. Changed the name, became quite large & profitable. My new deal with him, includes buying into an existing business.
Also, I was right... he mentioned that his evening included some "stalking".
~~~~~~~~~
I woke up to a bad dream again this morning...dreamed he was with OW... (did not like that, obviously)...woke up sad. Hate thinking this type of stuff.
~~~~~~~~~
Spoke with him this morning, he is irritable still (his phone is adding to his stress issues along with clients). I repeated how I was just trying to help last night, in spite of his "plan' that included stalking. I continued to state my reasoning but he interrupted me and told me we could talk about it more later (as his phone was irritating him) and then said I was being a dog with a bone. UGH... so I stopped. He was insistent on his part but then doesn't let me explain mine. I left it alone.
I continued to state my reasoning . . .
Stop doing this!!!
"Hi Ken ... except for the fact that a NEW business was created that is separate from the business he had. Its a spin off of his old business. We used his credentials & location. Changed the name, became quite large & profitable."
its NEW.
except its a spin-off, with his credentials and same location. selling the same products. you changed the name, and helped increase sales.
so its not NEW. regardless how you're spinning it.
"My new deal with him, includes buying into an existing business." -- since this hasnt happened yet, it doesnt matter.
Ken... Im not spinning it ...its NEW! Completely different than what he was doing before, its like a sister company!!... selling different products!! besides, he feels and agrees its a new company too.
Starsky... ok... so when do I get my turn to clarify things? It's like he gets to state "he does not want to pick up the cat in town when he is in town".. PERIOD. And I don't get to state, "but, I am heading into town (that works for me & the cat)....?
"besides, he feels and agrees its a new company too."
"but he wants MAJOR recognition that it was HIS before & because of being able to run off his already established business, he wants compensation!"
which is it? it cant be both.
obviously you and he have different beliefs. I'm expressing what i believe his belief is based on what you said originally.
more obviously, you both talk without listening.
I agree that he has a tonne of excuses why my name isn't on the business, yet. HOWEVER... I do believe he wants to finalize it. It is another thing that is hanging over his head & he does want it dealt with. Yes, he feels it is "our" business now (8 years), but he wants MAJOR recognition that it was HIS before & because of being able to run off his already established business, he wants compensation! He does FEAR giving up control and that is probably why he has used stall tactics. I do not feel that he is using a tactic ATM because he is extremely invested in securing our business location & that has him spinning out of control. He views this property as sanity control & I see it, it does make sense.
Stop assuming you know what he feels. Even if he says it directly, stop analyzing it. You don't know how he feels. Even if he tells you, stop believing his words. Words are words. They mean nothing.
Tonight, I was offering to help him with our abundance of work & when I called him it seemed to be bad timing. I was asking how I can help & was interested in how he was going to make it all happen. He was irritable & apologized (saying he has a lot on his plate). I think he is trying to stalk the "crack head seller" amongst getting his moms RX and its taking a toll on him. I was still trying to ask about our business and what was needed & he honked his horn, interrupted me, said he had to go & apologized again for his mood & he was anxious to get off the phone. <<< this set me back. I feel like he was protecting a lie. I don't like how it made me feel. I cannot assume. I cannot mind-read. I am letting it go. UGH!!! (going to go distract myself with TV with my DD).
Stop offering to help. If he wants your help, he will ask for it. Live your own life.
WH
MM,
You DON'T get a chance to "clarify" things! You don't get to say your "piece". You don't get to "tell" him anything! Don't you get it? He doesn't hear you and he's not listening! Yes, it [censored]. Yes, he is "wrong". Yes, it hurts because you have invested 20 years together but none of that matters!
What you have been doing hasn't worked and will never work. He will never "hear" you until HE'S ready and he is far from ready and may never be. Stop offering to help him in ANY way. Please, please STOP explaining, clarifying, stating, etc.! It does no good and actually hurts the sitch. I don't care if your position makes 1000 times more sense, even for the "cat".
You need to stop compounding your "mistakes". You know you made a mistake talking about the R. Now, just drop it and let it go, don't try to clarify, it will only make it worse!
Until you take away his power you will never get his respect! MM, at this point you would be better off just quitting and never seeing him. You can't seem to separate business from R and it's killing ANY chance of reconciliation, of any kind. Go to work. Do YOUR job. Talk ONLY about business while there. Go home. Do not call. Do not answer his calls. Live YOUR life, totally separate from him! If he asks about what you are doing outside of work treat him like you would someone you work with only. Do not offer to make his life easier in any way. His stress his HIS to deal with, not yours.
Lastly, do yourself a BIG favor and get the business stuff out of the way. No more delays, no more waiting for this or that. I don't see how waiting to see if the RE deal gets done or not affects how much of the business belongs to you or him. So he's stressed and busy, so what? This is more important to YOU then him and he has no right to put anything before getting that done and finalized. If you let him delay any more and you may find yourself without a SO or any part of the business!
Whoever he was before he no longer is now. He is a selfish jerk. He is self centered and cares NOTHING about what's best for YOU. He only cares about him and you had better get your ducks in a row and protect yourself NOW! There are stories all over this site about spouses who have kids that they no longer care about! S's that no longer care about people who they have been married to for 30 years. S's who do awful things that not only hurt their H/W but their young children in ways that they will never be able to fix. He doesn't care about you at all right now! He may never care about you again. If MLCers can drop their own kids, their flesh and blood (after being "great" mom's or dad"s for many years) just think how easy it is for them to drop a SO from their life. Treat you like crap and not care at all about you. Stop waiting and hoping for the old SO to show back up. If it ever happens it will take a long time and won't happen at all until you drop the rope, GAL of your own and let him be. If he destroys his own life, so be it! Don't let him destroy your's as well!
I know you're "trying". I know you think you are making "progress" but every time you end up going back to giving him all the power! It only takes one wrong talk to negate weeks of "progress" when that "progress" isn't really the kind you want. You are still detaching to "get" him to see you and want you again. You need to stop doing ANYTHING for him. You need to do it for YOU!!
MM, when you do or say something and later come to the realization that it was not productive or healthy, you tend to come here as if to confess and be judged, and then self-flagellate as if to say you're harder on yourself than anyone else could be.
That reads as unhealthy. It would be more adult to journal what you did, what you learned from it, and what you would do if you could go back in time or if the situation comes up in the future. That way you're ready.
Figuratively punching yourself does no good and sounds childish. Can you try presenting yourself with more dignity? Can you act as you would like to be perceived? Can you take your mistakes as an opportunity to learn and progress rather than beat yourself up?
ok... to answer:
Gabby: "You just proved something very crucial here. You are only staying in the business for hopes of reconciliation . You would get out if there was no personal future ?!?".>>>>> No, not sure how you can suggest that. I am in the business because it is part mine & worth ALOT of money. I am staying in it to get my part & then exit. Unless the feelings are gone, I cannot imagine remaining in this partnership. This may take 2 more years, before I can exit.
Ken: BUT, IT IS both. It was his before, then we reorganized & brought in different inventory. Changed the name. The company grew drastically.
WH: I am only repeating what he says... Yes, words are words. I am waiting for him to do what is morally right. He will. He has a conscience & is generally a good guy. Recall, we do have a mediated agreement. He is somewhat happy with it. He was generous in certain areas as well. The offer to "help" is related to the business ONLY. I am tired of making excuses to my clients ... so, helping to get stuff done, is proper partnering. Otherwise, I am not offering to help on personal stuff.
Matt: It may not be clear, but the conversation I was having was separate from 3 days ago. This one was work related & I am entitled to have a voice & make things work in a matter that is convenient for ME.. not just him. I was not trying to clarify my mistake... in anyway to him. I posted it on here to express how bad I felt. AS for the delay, there are reasons and timing that are an issue. His current RE deal affects my deal, so best not to rock the boat... just yet. I need to see the outcome of his RE deal too... it could change our financial situation & make our current mediated agreement change/alter... drastically. I guess ultimately, I need him to purchase this location... it makes the most sense (business & personally). As mentioned, I truly do not have to worry about him squeezing me out of the business. He has a conscience & must face his family and our daughter. I do not feel he would risk that. I have never seen him to not do the "right thing"... even if it tilts/leans in his favour, it will still be the right thing. And FAR better to have THAT deal than one that I would have to FIGHT with a lawyer/court. I have learned (from my previous divorce) that sometimes you get further with honey than vinegar. I am taking the sweeter approach.... for my sanity! Yes, he is a selfish jerk...right now. He is self centred. I agree. I disagree when you say he cares NOTHING for me. I see his "care" often. Wanting to make sure DD & my parents are ok. Investing time trying to help me with figuring out stuff for them/me (car/s, roof, medical care, housing). He is NOTHING like my XH, who is like MANY of the SO's on this site..... so where am I giving him my power? I feel I am doing well with dropping the rope? I have not picked it back up. I am distancing myself still. I have not been doing anything to GET HIM to see... I am doing it for me (like an addiction... recognizing the pull & saying NO)
got interrupted... let me continue:
Matt: Recognizing that I will have withdrawal symptoms.
Advina: I am hard on myself. I didn't want any mistakes... NONE. You make a good point. I need to recognize my faults & then learn from it & possibly post what I would do next time. If I were to have that convo again.. I would listen & then say what I did end up saying: "you have a lot to figure out... go figure it out". Or even better, "this is not the time or place to have R talk". I would also like to be able to say "under these circumstances, you aren't good enough for me".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today: We are working together, and ended back at his place for what I thought was to pick up a vehicle. While there, he wanted me to go see stuff in his garage that was being worked on. I also went in to see/visit his mom for awhile. I made her coffee. I then decided to do her dishes & he helped. Her sink overlooks the pool and I commented that the pool looked nice. He said "its nice but not a seadoo ride". He then offered for me to come swimming anytime.... I did not reply.
We are back at the office... he is coming & going as he pleases. I am sitting here, waiting for next client appointment.
Matt:
Until you take away his power you will never get his respect! MM, at this point you would be better off just quitting and never seeing him. <<< I agree, but cannot without walking away from everything. I cannot do that. I have all my money invested in this company. I am entitled to my salary, growth & investment. I will hold out for as long as I can, until I am in a better position financially.
You can't seem to separate business from R and it's killing ANY chance of reconciliation, of any kind. <<< explain how I am not separating work from R... ??
Go to work. Do YOUR job. Talk ONLY about business while there. Go home. Do not call. Do not answer his calls. Live YOUR life, totally separate from him! <<< I AM!!
If he asks about what you are doing outside of work treat him like you would someone you work with only. Do not offer to make his life easier in any way. His stress his HIS to deal with, not yours. <<<< I AM !!!
Alright, I'll take a different tack, MM,
You say your SO has a "conscience" and that he would never risk facing his family. Let me tell you something, my W was the the person who was most against D that I have ever known! She would drill into her D's that you just don't get a D, NEVER unless you were being abused. She knows that her entire mother's side of the family think she is VERY wrong for leaving her M. If you had asked me before B-day if my W would ever get a D from me I would have LAUGHED, seriously. I would have been less surprised if on B-day she had told me she was an alien pretending to be human than that she not only wanted a D, but won't even try to make our M work.
You cannot rely on them doing the right thing, ever! Yes, my W can be nice about things. At times she seems concerned about me but only if it doesn't interfere with what SHE wants! This guy has tried to use you for "just" sex. He has ignored you, done whatever he wants when he wants with zero regard for you and your feelings. I have seen from your posts him over and over again NOT do the "right thing". Was it right for him to flirt with the RE agent? Was it right to suggest you two be just "F%$kbuddies"? Was it right for him to make plans to have "fun dates" and not do it? MM, from your own words he has done many, many "wrong" things! MLCers do not HAVE a conscience! Their empathy chip is not working!
If you don't stop trusting that he will do the "right thing" I guarantee you WILL get burned even worse! You aren't getting anywhere with "honey" because he doesn't have a sweet tooth for YOUR honey! When exactly did he do these things for you that you talk about? Was it AFTER B-day? You are still looking so hard for the parts of him that he had before he changed you may be seeing something that's not there!
You are giving him your power every time you get upset about what he says or doesn't say. When he doesn't do what you had hoped and it hurts you. When you offer to help him and he calls you a dog with a bone. Heck, by defending him when we try and show you how he is using you or mistreating you! Yes, you are detaching hoping to 'get" him to see. If you weren't you wouldn't have felt the need to point it out during your last talk! You may not even know it, you may really think you aren't doing it to get him to notice but your words tell a different story. I'm not trying to be mean. It took me a long time to realize that I was detaching to get my W to notice too.
MM, please...don't think you can trust his doing the right thing! You WILL get burned!
You need to get your investment out of this business and get the f*ck out. Don't look back. Just go.
Sometimes bluntness is the only way to go.
WH
Matt... I am not thinking I can trust.. I am hoping that he will do the right thing.. and he did, when we began our mediation. I just need to follow it through. For now, its the best I can do... If I create a storm, you can guarantee it will not be pretty & I will end up with far less. Apparently he HAS noticed... but that is NOT why I am doing it... I am worried about my health. I am dropping the rope for me. Thanks for clarifying how I give him my power. I will watch closer for that stuff
GM ... Im lost.. I would walk away if there isn't a romantic involvement. & thats what I have been working on for months. Sales have been the best EVER since BD!
WH... THATs EXACTLY what I am doing.... I am selling like crazy, reducing inventory, building our account. Able to take a large amount at any time (back salary). However, leaving it in there until my name is ON it! <<< This was recommended by a lawyer.
~~~~~~
He just popped in ... came from home. Brought me water. I said thanks. I Didn't open it for 15 mins. Opened, took two sips & he asked if he could have some. He guzzled a bit. I didn't have any more of it. He left (client duty). <<<< this is possibly his version of swapping spit and intimacy (he has said many times about sharing drinks). or.. maybe he was just thirsty (he did just leave his house 4 mins away). Just random.
GABBY!!! I was kidding... I was repeating what my friend described as a joke!! LOL
However, I do understand the ways my Xbf operates. I know he is concerned about swapping spit & who he pee's in front of. He does not share these things very well... very concerned about diseases!
I am just posting what I witness... thats all!
Besides, how many business associates do you share drinks with?
Magic,
One thing I've noticed is that you seem to frequently mention xbf is under stress. X is causing him stress. He has been worried about z and it's causing him stress. Guess what? Even when one of those. " stressors" is resolved, another one is right around the corner. There will always be an excuse because he can always find one.
Stress is pretty prevalent. It's called living and having responsibilities :-)
I agree G'belle... and the same goes for him having a life. Just today, a neighbour pointed out to him that he keeps chasing money, but missing out on life. That summer is just about over. He had an excuse. Once he gets the location secured... he will have a life.
Apparently, he doesn't know how to manage both. Only one thing at a time.
Gabby.... To answer your question about water... because HE has an issue with "sharing" personal things and I don't believe many people "share" drinks with their business partners or fellow workers. I found that behaviour ODD. I am not obsessing about it. I just posted it for my reference.
Yes, that IS what I am doing... working through my inventory, so that I can get out! It has little to do with wanting to be with him for a relationship. I find it so much easier to not be around him... I am OK. I would be so much further along without him in my daily life.... I know this... So, it would be easier on me to be out of this business. However, I am being strategic & smart... trying to get my hands on my hard efforts & what I deserve. I may be going about it differently than some others would. But, I know what I have to do to get what is rightfully mine.
~~~~~~~~~~~
As I was anxious to leave work last night (later than usual, after writing a deal), he asked if I would come over and work on a vehicle with him. I said no. He was also trying to convince me it made sense as I could bring back the cat to the house. I said no. As leaving he asked if I was going into town, to pick up my daughter (nosey). I said no & left.
Last night he randomly texts at 8:30: One more sold, 2 down the road...cheers
Normally, I would be anxious to type back "cheers". I texted back: Yep, it was a good business day.
He also started texting my DD... asking her to the movies tonight.
OK... I did it!
Yesterday: At work, he suggested that its such a nice day and that I come bring the cat & come for a swim, as he would be in the pool too. I just smiled and didn't really answer other than "its a nice day". I wish I had said "Its not really a good idea, right now"... I felt I had missed my opportunity.
It was a successful day at work, sold another.. He started talking again about how great owning that location would be, & how he would organize the office & paint, etc. I said how great it sounds for him. He clarified & said that it would be good for us (in business). He also spoke a bit about how impressed he is with that RE agent, how she is a huge seller & on the top of the charts for her success (10M in commission). That RE is a better business than ours, etc & should be in THAT.
He had been texting with my daughter, making arrangements for the movies. I was headed out and on my way driving back to parents. We agreed I would swing by to drop the cat off, later. On my way back home, he called & asked if he cancels out on movies, as they didn't seem interesting to him, and he worked a little while longer back at house with our painter, would I like to go sit on a patio with him & DD and combine it with picking up another vehicle in next town? I scrambled/panicked for an answer & said I dunno, I'm driving & would call him later. ..... missed opportunity AGAIN!! UGH!!
A while after I got back at the house, I discussed with my DD (as I didn't want this to stop them from getting out). I decided I would I text: that the cat was acting up & couldn't catch her. Maybe they would have better luck when he comes to pick up DD for dinner or movies later. (not really answering his question if I want to be on patio with him, etc) He phoned... immediately:
He said "so, does this mean you don't want to go?".... (drum roll). I said "I don't think its a good idea, right now". He said "OH, ok" and then proceeded to say he was going to still ask my daughter to go with him locally on a patio. I said good idea & bye.
Last night, I got dropped off & went out to see a friends band play. My vehicle stayed in the driveway.
When he came to pick up my DD, she noticed that he turned down the street the opposite way & intentionally looked at neighbours house (assuming I was there?). My DD also said that he mentioned to her that he invited me, but I seemed grumpy & wondered why.
SO... I did it... I got the opportunity to turn him down... 180! It is totally against what I am really wanting in my heart, but figured I needed to do this for ME! To express my self value & show that I do not NEED his cookies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So why does it suck today? why is my tummy flip flopping?
Hi MM,
You did well. One thing to keep in mind.... you didn't miss an "opportunity". Instead of saying "I don't think that's a good idea right now", you need to be able to say "Sorry, I have other plans" and MEAN IT! You did well, don't get me wrong. The whole way he spoke about the RE agent was pretty scummy by the way, that was him trying to control you by the way.
The best way to detach is to HAVE other plans. Get your own life. Instead of saying you don't think it's a good idea, tell him you are busy doing something more fun (like going to see a friends band play, which is what you ended up doing). Also, attitude is important. You don't want him thinking you're "grumpy" , but wondering why you are so very happy without him!
By the way, when you can stop feeling bad the next day that you didn't do what HE wanted and NOT have butterflies the next day wondering how he is thinking and feeling..... you are almost there!
MM, congrats on saying no. Perhaps the butterflies will ease up when you see the advantages of saying no.
But I'm gonna call you on making up a lie to hide from him, and especially modeling that behavior for your daughter. Why do you think it's ok to lie? You mention it here every now and then, making up a cockamamie story to try to accomplish things without becoming assertive. Does it trouble you that you lie?
Am I missing something?
He did this...to which I responded like this...
He said this....to which I did this...
He did this other thing...and I did this...
Paragraph after paragraph of EXBF's actions/words followed by MM's REACTION. Isn't that the definition of Co-dependency??
MM's EXBF's Actions/Words + MM = MM's REACTION, MM's Analyis,
Sum Total = MM's LIFESorry to be harsh, but honestly Magic!! I don't see you getting this??! It's maddening.
And, you mentioned a few days ago how you are waiting for him to act morally right...To do the right thing because he is, down deep, a good person and will do the right thing...
WHA?????? Are you familiar with this Forum? This is MLC!!! They don't operate under the same rules.
Sorry. I just couldn't contain it today.
I see a very sad, frightened woman who is hanging onto this man's pantleg. Maybe I see it because I've been known to hang onto pantlegs myself. But, I was called on it. Harshly. I took notice. You seem to ignore and want a cookie from everyone here, every time you have some ridiculous conversation or swig of water.
Go back to your regularly scheduled program.
Hi Matt & Advina,
Thanks... my reason for saying "not a good idea, right now" was intentional. .. Not a lie. It was stating that regardless of what he asks me to do right now, its just not going to be a good idea.... right now. That its about me not accepting crumbs because I want & deserve more... If he cannot deliver, thats ok. It wasn't about having plans or not.... regardless of having a plan or staying home...its not a good idea right now! .... right? (see my point?)
Butterflies?... I am trying to see the benefits/advantages...
Heather, thanks for your opinion. I have let go of his pant leg (for real) just under a month ago. I have been maintaining my "NO" responses to his "offers" because I am treating it like an addiction. I need to be able to say no to my drug. I am not looking for anything from anyone. If someone offers a comment (good or bad), I appreciate it and try to learn from it. If you don't see my growth, thats yours. Sorry, you feel that way. I never claimed to be healed from my co-dependency (I am working on it).
~~~~~~~
He texted early today offering to come pick up the cat. I was heading out. I suggested that my daughter will take her back instead. He has texted me often throughout the day, unimportant work related (I assume just to inform me). My DD just left to take the cat back now. Mentioning this because he has been using the cat as an excuse to have me drop by the house to swim or work, etc....
So, if you're able to tell me to go pound salt...how come you can't tell him? If you're able to ignore posts that you don't like, how come you can't ignore him?
This man is stringing you along in sooooo many ways. You hang on his every word and action.
You can say it to me and others on here who pi$$ you off because you aren't as heavily invested in what we think.
But, somehow, you've become convinced that this man is necessary for YOUR SURVIVAL as a human being. He's not. Not a bit.
He is a flawed human being just like the rest of us, but it seems like there's this little girl inside you who is desperately, desperately trying to get his attention. I've been there.
How you feel responding to me, is how it should feel...to some extent...with him...that's your goal. Your goal is to be able to tell him to pound salt and not care one way or the other how he responds. That's detachment. That's how it feels.
Talk to that little girl and reassure her that he cannot hurt her anymore because YOU won't allow it. YOU can become your own life support instead of relying upon him.
And, if an addict truly wants recovery, then he/she will HAVE TO find employment elsewhere if he/she is daily thrown up against his/her drug. Recovery from addiction isn't possible when your drug-of-choice is in front of you daily.
You're skirting around the issue as opposed to taking the action that will really get you healthy. And, you seem to want Atta Boys anytime you only drink one drink, as opposed to three or...you snort one line as opposed to four.
I get now why I suspected alcoholism and why your thread has bugged me.
You remind me of my own male addiction and my mother's. Just my two cents. Could be wrong.
Thanks Heather... You are correct.
He is a flawed human being just like the rest of us, but it seems like there's this little girl inside you who is desperately, desperately trying to get his attention. I've been there. <<<< this is who I WAS...for 20 years... trying to change that & have ... just under a month ago!
...not care one way or the other how he responds. That's detachment. That's how it feels.<<<< amazing to know that one day, I will feel like that too.
Talk to that little girl and reassure her that he cannot hurt her anymore because YOU won't allow it. YOU can become your own life support instead of relying upon him. <<< I have good days and I have bad moments.... working on believing this!
I CAN & WILL DO THIS!!!.... I am pushing through to the other side... its important to/for ME!
MM, I pi$$ you off and vice versa, because the B.S. doesn't work on me. You can't work with him and have detachment. Can't be done.
An addict can't do a lil coke and stay clean.
You don't want to let go. I know because I've been there. 25 years this month. I've had to cut him out completely to give myself time to detox. Thought I would die without him. I haven't.
The withdrawal from love addiction is similar to heroin withdrawal biochemically. Same shid, different addiction.
Get honest with it. You don't want to let him go. You haven't. For me, I'm two months in on No Contact and I still fight it daily. But, I'm getting better. You can't go through withdrawal until he is withdrawn.
It must drive your DD crazy. I feel for her. Watching your mother kill herself over a man is torture. I've done it my whole life. My mom replaced her alcohol with a man, then another.
I agree that you've made progress in standing up for yourself and listening to others.
I don't agree that you are doing all you can. I think you are avoiding the very actions that will cut him out...the actions that will force you to get clean.
EXBF is no good for me, but I can't let him go because.....????
MM, you are going to have to be braver than you ever thought possible. If you really want it. You have to give up the dream. All of it. ALLLLLLLL OF IT.
I get frustrated when you spin what I say. You did lie, about the cat being difficult, which you texted him and he called back (probably because it sounded like the lame excuse that it was) that started the conversation.
The cat being difficult was not your reason for not going, and you knew it, and cooked it up with intention to avoid him, and cooked it up with your daughter. That is lying, and that is modeling lying and unassertiveness. And that is what I was calling you on, and asking you some questions about, which have now gotten buried with other responses.
However I did want to clarify because you do misrepresent what I say, often, in your rebuttals of what I said. I thought it was pretty obvious that the lie was about the cat.
Heather: I MUST work with him & show/have detachment... I am not willing, to walk away from my financial life investment. It is too much! and I am worth what I invested into.
I will do the best detaching that can be done under the circumstances. I can look at my addiction & not reach for it. I have quit smoking & can be in a room with other smokers & not want it. I can do this with him too! I can & I will! I MUST. I am detoxing in the best way possible & not walk away from my finances/business. I will do that when the timing is better & my name is on the business. I can & have withdrawn from him & push him away, much like I did with cigarettes. I occasionally STILL get the urge to smoke, but NEVER will!... same can happen with him. Mindset!
Yes, my DD has been upset with me but has been proud of me over the past year & more so in the past month.
Yes, I am going to have to be braver than EVER before & EVER in my life.....to get what I want! A life surrounded with people who love, respect and appreciate me... including myself. I must love me first. <<< I get this. A month ago, I gave up the dream. I am giving myself time to detox as well.
Advina: I am comfortable with what I said about the cat to create my comfort. He does not deserve to know the truth...right now. I get to decide what is right/comfortable to me now. Not considering him. This is more the goal for me at this point than to watch out for white lies. I typically am not a liar. I am not very good at it. My EX-H was a HUGE liar & I have no respect for him whatsoever. In reading of other situations & including DB'ing, this is acceptable.... for now. Who cares what "they" think?? I am working on me & if I have to tell a minor lie until I am in a better position & it protects my self!! Im ok with that.
Sorry, I don't agree. You have the ability to control what questions you choose to answer and how detailed you choose to be. "No thanks I'll stay home" is assertive; "oh gee I can't find the cat" is immature. For your convenience and comfort, you have told fibs to your x several times and reported it here. Your daughter's observing her mother, who is an adult she looks up to. I thought it might be something you'd want to work on.
MM,
LISTEN TO HEATHER! Don't dismiss her. She knows what she is saying and has worked hard to get through her own sitch and learned what she has the hard way! The whole reason we are all telling you to stop delaying on the business agreement getting finished is because we all see 1) he may very well find a way to cut you out once he see's he no longer can control you and 2) you really may need to leave the business if you can't work with your "addiction" and be able to leave it behind! Also, advina is right. You really need to be honest when you deal with him. Lies to make it "easier" only set you back. Be bold, be honest, with yourself and him.
This is the reason GAL is so very important in detaching. You need to really have things in your life that are better to you than hanging on the pantleg of a guy who has insulted and hurt you. Who wants you only for sex and thinks so little of you that he thinks you will settle for just that. You must get to a point where you are doing things that help you to see that a life without someone like that can be a much better one!
Invest more time in understanding what others are trying to tell you instead of rebutting them. Before you post why you think they are "wrong" or why you disagree. Stop and really think about what they are saying and try to see why they think it. You are very quick to defend, too quick. So, next time you disagree with something someone posts don't just post why you don't think they see the sitch "right". Take time to look at the sitch from their viewpoint and try to see their point of view. In there lies the answers that you aren't seeing. I had to learn to do the same, you will get much more from this forum when you can start doing this consistently!
And, I know you are working on taking small steps and treating this like you did stopping smoking. That doesn't make anything that others have pointed out any less relevant.
Matt, I think your right xbf has worked out his way of getting 100% of mm share.
When it comes to $ mm, just sign the agreement. It can have clauses to say after the re deal if you want, but the longer you leave this the more likely there could be a cause where time has elapsed on your claim. You need to think he is smarter than you think.
Any legal agreement protects all parties, and he wanted s he needs to get it financially too!
HI Matt,
I am listening to everyone... I am very aware of what could happen. I do take the time to think and review what others are suggesting. I am grateful that they are watching for my blind spots.
I am curious today, if he should question why I am saying "NO" to his offers or why I am "grumpy" and "cold", what would I say? Obviously I am not good on the spot & want to be prepared, if it becomes an option. Many of you will say "who cares"... but the point is for me to be prepared and not standing there like a dummy!
My thought would be "because I know what I want (commitment) and you don't, so you go figure it out" <<<<< however to me, this sounds a bit like ... I have always known what I've wanted & I'm just waiting for you.
Suggestions?
I am curious today, if he should question why I am saying "NO" to his offers or why I am "grumpy" and "cold", what would I say? Obviously I am not good on the spot & want to be prepared, if it becomes an option. Many of you will say "who cares"... but the point is for me to be prepared and not standing there like a dummy!
My thought would be "because I know what I want (commitment) and you don't, so you go figure it out" <<<<< however to me, this sounds a bit like ... I have always known what I've wanted & I'm just waiting for you.
A: "C'mon, we've talked this in circles to DEATH, a thousand times. Do I REALLY need to explain it to you? Let's just try to stick to business today, ok? (upbeat) -- anything new on that _____ deal?" (or some such)
Glad you replied Starsky... thanks for your reply!! (I like it)... I also like what you said before:
I recall it was you who stated I should just say "because I decided I want more"... but doesn't that suggest that I want more .... from him? (as usual)... Thats how he will interpret it.
~~~~~~~
Also.... what message did I send on the weekend? Saying "no thanks" to many of his suggestions. It felt good, but it also gave me butterflies. Recalling the whole pealharbr story, and how you recommend that we reject the WAS, treat them like we were dumping them now. Any further suggestions for today? What can I expect from him now? I think this is what is giving me butterflies... the unknown.
"I have let go of his pant leg (for real) just under a month ago. "
this is BS. plain and simple.
You cannot claim to have dropped the rope a month ago, and then the next sentence is all about him. and his water, and his cat, and his texting, and his real estate woman.
sure, you throw in a random paragraph about your friends band, but its just some crap you think will appease us. then its all about him again.
no one here cares the least bit about him.
you cant say you dropped the rope, WHEN you cant spend more than 1 paragraph talking something other than him. when you can go weeks without mentioning what he's doing, then you've gotten somewhere.
but instead you lie to him, you react to him, you base your entire life around him and his actions. you spend all your hours obsessing over him.
and when everyone here points it out, you deny. you ignore.
but its BS.
not so sure about ALL that Ken... I have made progress & it shows... I am happy for that.
I agree I spend a lot of time on my thoughts of him. However, this is MY thread and I post as I would a journal. MY THOUGHTS, MY FEELINGS.
In my heart, I know how much I have dropped the rope. I am not doing anything to appease anyone on this board. I do things for me.
Also.... what message did I send on the weekend?
MM, if you're still focused on "sending messages," then you are not getting OUR message . . .
to you.But, you know that already. The only question is when you will DO something about it.
Starsky
I recall it was you who stated I should just say "because I decided I want more"... but doesn't that suggest that I want more .... from him? (as usual)... Thats how he will interpret it.
MM, it's been quite awhile since I advised that. Your ex has shown by his behavior and statements since then that he is currently (and I and most of us here on your thread would contend,
ever) incapable of being the one to give you more, so I wouldn't bother with this tack anymore.
Starsky
Starsky and Ken,
You need to remember that you are dealing with an addict. No amount of reasoning will make a bit of difference. MM needs to reach her bottom and she hasn't yet.
She gets a fix each time she interacts with ExBF. It's every bit as strong as heroin or booze or whatever...it's her drug. She is protecting her drug and you can't reason someone out of drug use.
MM, my question to you..."Why are you here?"
Starsky..
The reason I was asking about message sending is based on the advice of teaching others how to treat you. So, wondered... what did I teach him. The message I understand is to not care... about him. I get that. But I still wonder what my new disposition says...its brand new to me.
Also, when you suggested that "old" comment, it was only 3 weeks ago when he pulled his sexual moves on me... nothing has changed since then. He has been the same, and just this weekend trying to temp check with me. I am not convinced its not a good statement to still use. I just wonder if it makes it sound like I am "waiting" for him to make changes... that he may/ or may not be capable of. And, by saying this does it make me look like I have no self value, by that statement?
Starsky... please advise me the way you did with pearlharbr.
~~~~~~~~~
Heather: let's pretend I have a food addiction... I still need to eat. Its about control.... self control.
Heather: let's pretend I have a food addiction... I still need to eat. Its about control.... self control.
Ok, then, Miss Food Addict...Is it ok to continue obsessing about pies and cookies...daily...24/7? Is it healthy?
Food Addicts have to surround themselves with support and Eat to Live as Opposed to Live to Eat...You, my friend, living to eat. Food is still the main obsession/fix in your life.
You get a high each time you talk about the possibility of eating how you want...i.e. having EXBF re-commit. Imagine he is a big Chocolate Cream Pie. Yum. You want to hear you can get back to having a piece each day...and, maybe even binging here and there. No one is playing anymore. You've worn the posters out.
It's B.S. MM.
Starsky... please advise me the way you did with pearlharbr.
MM, Pearlharbr was a quick study. You have proven either to stubborn, too unwilling or emotionally/mentally too unable to learn, and so I merely drop by to encourage you or point out something to you, as the case may be.
I could (and have!) tell you what your ex is thinking, but to share those insights with you (for the umpteenth time) will only to further feed your obsession and dysfunction, and I care for you too much to do that.
Sorry.
Starsky
"You need to remember that you are dealing with an addict. No amount of reasoning will make a bit of difference. MM needs to reach her bottom and she hasn't yet."
yes, i know this. MM is also addicted to attention, much of what she posts here is to get attention from others.
personally i think everyone should ignore any comments by her about her x.
Heather.. no, of course its not healthy to obsess about the pies, etc.... but, did i EAT IT? >>> NO!! I am proud that I AM FINALLY able to say NO to him (one month solid). It may still be my obsession (ATM) but it is NO LONGER my fix! You don't get to keep telling me what I have & have not accomplished. I have dropped the rope and he is no longer able to draw me in. It doesn't matter if you see it or not. I know how I feel.
Starsky.... I too can be a quick study. When you said 3-4 weeks ago to kick his "arse" to the curb, I began doing just that ... I have not slipped. I have maintained the course & it was just this week & weekend that he has responded back to my declines with pursuit. I am not sure why you say that I am stubborn/unwilling... I have done exactly what you prescribed. I was extremely careful to follow. Yes, you have told me what he may be thinking previously...but not since I got the guts to say no, this weekend to his date offers.
I am hoping that you reconsider or at least tell me why you feel I am not listening to you.
Ken... I do not need anyones attention.
MM,
This is my story:
I had a very emotionally unavailable dad. He was/is very intimidating and put a lot of pressure on me to be perfect.
My mom is a recovering alcoholic and was emotionally unavailable, for the most part, until she got sober when I was 8. She was sexually abused as a kid by her father and has some serious issues with men. She saw men as necessary for her survival...literally. She can't imagine being alone without a man to take care of her.
My dad had serial affairs when I was a kid. I depended on his love but he was unavailable and very rejecting and scary.
For me = the thrill of chasing my dad's love and approval became my drug...when he looked in my direction and gave me Atta Boy's...I felt complete. It was a high to get the attention from someone so distant and unavailable. I began chasing his love from a very young age.
Grandpa left my Grandma for her secretary.
Dad left my mom (he said because of her weight problem) when I was in middle school...he left for his young, skinny secretary.
Within two years both parents were remarried. My mom found a very abusive, angry man...mentally ill in my opinion. She became addicted to making him BETTER. It never happened. My mom lost herself and made this man her mission. She was determined to SAVE him in order to avoid another divorce and the humiliation.
He is still, to some extent, her mission in life. He always came first...before me and my siblings.
One angry night, I escaped our home after physical abuse from stepdad and I moved in with Smokey the next day. He was to be my savior. He was perfect...a good-hearted substance abuser who adored me and gave me "love"...in reality what he duplicated was the pursue/distance routine that I was used to with my dad. He never gave himself to me completely...he couldn't...he was an addict and that was his one true love. I spent the next 20+ years trying to prevent him leaving me like my dad. He emotionally abused me and kept me hanging on by a string for decades. I put him first and neglected the needs of our daughters-in some respects-- in order to "keep him happy."
Rejection to me = Love. The pursuit and fantasies associated with reconciliation and the possibility of attaining the unattainable...for me...that high I feel when I get him back...he is sorry and beholding and comes back to me...All very sick and very dependent on the actions of someone else.I never learned to fill myself up with love. I never experienced the necessary "soft place to land" kinda love you're supposed to get from your parents...I came up with my own sick version of getting whatever crumbs/cookies I could from men who could never truly love me unconditionally. It wasn't my fault. It was what I was used to. We learn best what we learn first.How I use this information and self-awareness is important now. My addiction was slowly killing me and driving me to a very dark place.
Now, I see the damaging pattern. I see that I've continued to put my wounders (My dad, Smokey) on pedestals and waited for them to see the light...It's time to stop.Bottom Line: Your EXBF treats you badly. He is NOT necessary for your survival. He is NOT FOOD. He could be distanced. You choose to keep your high nearby...It leaves you lost in a fantasy and dependent on the actions of HIM for YOUR happiness.
You CAN Fill yourself up with YOURSELF...it will require some serious action on your part.
I know you will get support here on the boards.
But, enough of the B.S. Time to face up to the truth. You don't want to let him go. You refuse to.
Lois,
You describe my W and how she has felt about her father all her life perfectly! The thing is, when she found someone who DID love her unconditionally (or very close to it) in me, it felt like something was missing. She didn't have to "prove" herself to me in order for me to love and accept her. Without the "rejection" side of the equation, the love side just didn't "feel" right to her. Hence her telling me B-day that I should have "made" her do this or that. She talks about her "best" memories of her father being when he "made" her do things with him. This is why when her father suddenly wanted her back in his life, but on HIS terms (no husband and family in the way), it drove her to depression! Now, she has "earned" her fathers love by doing what he says he wants her to do..and that "feels" right to her. Wow.
MM,
Remember when I told you that detaching and dropping the rope only works when you do it for you. I know you want to think that you are doing it for you but every time you post you post things that show you aren't doing it for you but to get him to notice and react! Just the last post where you said "This weekend was the first time he reacted by pursuing...". MM, this tells us that you are detaching to get a reaction from him. How he reacts makes zero difference! You aren't doing this in hopes he will see the light. You must do this for you and only you! Don't say you only posted that because you wanted to tell us what you saw. You saw it and posted it because YOU WERE LOOKING FOR IT! The whole "I'm an addict" thing is a cop out! I could just as easily say I was "addicted to my W" as say I loved her. The fact that you really believe he will do the "right thing" in the end, that he would "never" cut you out of the business, etc. says that you aren't seeing things the way they truly are! The fact that you are so concerned about how he may see what you do or are so worried what is the "right" thing to say or do tells us that you aren't detaching for you. You can say it's "only" been 3 weeks but MM, it's been a lot longer than that since things went south.
You have to understand just what "standing" means. It doesn't mean that you keep hoping and praying that he see's the light. It means that While you detach, GAL, drop the rope, etc. you leave an opening for if and when they may be ready to make a real effort. If you don't stop looking for a sign that he is there he NEVER will be! It will take a long time for him to get there and until you truly do the work FOR YOU, the clock won't even start on when that time MAY come! We see a guy who has hurt you, used you, showed you zero respect. He has openly talked about wanting other women (RE agent, dog walker), made excuse after excuse as to why he "can't" make ANY effort in your R and you validate by saying all the stress he is under or all the stuff on his plate. None of those mean a thing! There will ALWAYS be reasons why he "can't" until he wants to. As hard as it is to accept, he just doesn't want a R with you. That isn't going to change until something changes.
You reveal your subconscious in what you post here. You show what lies beneath by what you say. You must drop the hope that he will turn around just because you have detached (somewhat) for 3 weeks. You MUST stop worrying about every interaction. You must stop making excuses for him by talking about all the stress he is under or that he "wants fun in his life" but just can't seem to allow himself any. That's his chit, that's his problem. You don't know how frustrating it is when we read you defending him! Stop analyzing him! Stop looking behind you to see if he noticed this or that or how he reacted to you! Your life is still revolving around this man! I work with other people. I don't think about them when I'm not at work. If you can't detach while working with him you need to stop. If you must stay as you say than you MUST stop any and all interaction with him other than what is absolutely necessary!
Please don't just dismiss what I'm saying or tell me how well you have detached the last 3 weeks. We know you feel that you have. What we are trying to do here is point out that you may think you have more than you really have. You are heading for a fall, MM. You must let go! If you don't I can tell you without question that he is going to do something that you never thought he would and you won't be ready. He is not the person he was before B-day and he never will be again. There is a slight chance he may be able to come through and be a better person, one that you MAY want back in your life but that will take a great deal of time if it ever happens at all. MM, I stand to what I posted long ago...you need to become the best MM you can be, for YOU! What a guy who has done all the things he has, has acted the way he has, who is the person he is now thinks about you is meaningless! Until you can (honestly) say what he thinks of you is totally meaningless to you. Has no more merit than what some bum in the street thinks, you will be stuck in this dance with your ex!
Heather: Very sorry to hear about your story. My upbringing was completely different. My parents love each other and are still together. I was raised with a lot of love & attention. However, I never did learn to fill my own self up with love (this much is true). He is my addiction, a hard one to let go... but, I am learning that he is not healthy for me & MUST let go.
Matt: I am not dismissing, I am listening. I know that for the past month, I was letting go for ME... not him. And not for a reaction. I truly was surprised to see his pursuit & posted because of that. Based on what all gets said on my thread, I NEVER expected his pursuit AT ALL (and I was ok with that because I was moving on for me !!)... When he pursued, it would have been easy for me to pick back up the rope, I may have touched it, but I refused to pick it up....because of me. Yes, I need to stop worrying about EVERY action from him... i do. Its just that these last few days he has made efforts that I posted. For example today, he made us coffee from home & brought in my coffee mugs from home too. He is attempting to bait...I see it. I won't be hooked anymore just to be released again ...so, I am being careful. When you state that I MUST stop any and all interaction with him... I HAVE!! I am not convinced that he is capable of making a real effort towards me, therefore I WILL continue to release myself from his pant leg & continue forward. As Gabby keeps pointing out..what if he never comes back? At some point I need to stand on my own & be able to be truly happy again. I am working on THIS.
I am clearly focused on more than just him.... I AM clearing out my inventory... in the last 7 days, I have sold 14 vehicles!!!! THIS IS AWESOME!. This will keep us BUSY!!! It requires a lot of driving here & there, phone calls, paperwork, pick up parts, errands, etc.... by selling, I have just added to his stress level & that flows down hill to me.
My goal is to sell sell sell like crazy... REDUCE inventory. Downsize to a normal/reasonable size. We got too big, too fast & don't have the location to accommodate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
An hour ago, he was finally able to present 2 offers to the crack addict landlord!! This does affect me as well.
This morning he calls me... we discuss work & the days priorities. He then asks if I still want to go to the family party this weekend. I didn't answer yet. He then says it will only be from 2-6 roughly and if we want, maybe we can combine it with delivering to our client along the way. He also starts mentioning about the party for our mechanic for the 26th. Suggesting that we should be there. I asked if he was asking me to go with him? He said we could go together, and possibly ask my DD if she would be our designated driver. I said "I dunno, I will think about all this".
Of course I WANT to go.... I want to see the family too. Maybe, if I can contain myself to visiting with them, I will allow myself to go. I just don't want to give myself false hope & have expectations. ....
However, I know I WANT more, so why settle for less?
~~~~~~~~
Last night was the beginning meeting for my women's group. This term's theme is "personal mission makeover". For me, it is leading up to mean "personal growth" in the area of accepting myself, loving myself, etc. I realized again last night that I have put EVERY bit of faith into HIM & what he thinks of me. This happened because, HE believed in me (when I did not). He brought out the best in me. Turned me into a quality person & an entrepreneur (I did not believe in me...he did). Because of this, I pretzeled myself into being who he wanted me to be. This thought process must change... I must believe that I was always this person, and he merely helped me to see it. Now, I have to accept my potential. Let it resonate. My potential belongs to me and no one else.
Hi MM,
Last weekend I went to my in-laws family party with my W and kids. I was able to do this because I had ZERO expectations from my W AND I knew I would be able to go and contain any negative emotions that came up. I spent VERY little time with my W and spent most of the time interacting with other people there. It wasn't easy. It was a long drive to and from where I was in the car talking with her and the kids. I had to just let anything she said that could be hurtful if I had taken it a certain way go and ignore it. I had to be happy and upbeat even when she purposely said things that were digs. I had to endure the tour of HER new home (first time I was there for any length of time) listening to her go on about her excitement. It wasn't easy but I'm glad I went.
Can you do those things? Can you let any negative comment he makes just go? Can you (honestly) have ZERO expectations of him? Can you not get into "R" talks or get upset if he makes a comment about some other person (RE agent anyone?)? Can you not seem "grumpy" but actually seem happy with your life without him in it? Can you be around your "drug of choice" without taking a step backwards in your progress?
You need to honestly feel you are able to do these things before agreeing to go with him. You have to be able to hide any negative emotions that may come, ignore out of the blue comments or questions about your R from his family/friends or know how you will react and answer them. Can you do this? Only you know the answer, MM. But make sure you are honest with YOURSELF before you agree!
Thanks Matt.... I think I can do all that (because I pretty much have to do that during work time anyway). My only problem may be that I might be "hopeful" the next day, or put meaning into it. <<<< this may be what I struggle with, and may chose as a reason not to go. If I did go, I could see myself being fully entertained by the others & not requiring HIS attention, therefore at a distance.
My question to you... you said that you were happy that you went to your family function... why?
My other question is.... would going to this event, delay my progress? I am trying soooo hard to drop the rope, get off his pant leg & to focus on pulling myself away. If I go, I won't be pulling myself away from him, but putting myself in his space outside of work. Will this delay or be considered a backslide in my progress? Will he feel "aha", got MM back under my power & will now play catch & release with me ... again? <<< I am not interested in the catch me & release me game any more!!
Maybe, if I am careful enough & distant enough I won't feel that he has "caught" me, and then neither can he.... ??? dunno
I just don't understand why he invites me to stuff if he does not want a relationship & he knows there won't be any sex either. Not sure whats in it for him. If he knows he doesn't want to be with me, why invite me? ... I don't want to be his "friend"
I just don't understand why he invites me to stuff if he does not want a relationship & he knows there won't be any sex either. Not sure whats in it for him. If he knows he doesn't want to be with me, why invite me? ... I don't want to be his "friend"
I think it's because he's "comfortable" with you. Men sometimes would rather stay with someone who already knows our faults, and seem to be okay with them, rather than start over with someone new who's going to analyze us and find us wanting, lol.
Plus, we NEVER think sex is out of the question! He probably still thinks he can wear you down.
Starsky
well... he can't.. not under these conditions.
So Starsky... should I go or not? Your reasoning?
Here we go again! Should I or should I not go? This will be the topic of discussion until the function dates and many, many postings will be posted about it...bottom line...what is your gut telling you to do?
Is there any reason why you can't go solo if you really, really want to go? Nothing says you have to be at his mercy and go w/him. If you go, you can mingle w/everyone and have a good time and leave him on the sidelines to do his own thing. When you are ready to leave, you can say your goodbyes and go home and not wait on him to drive you home.
Again, it's up to you, but I'm putting my money on your not going, just like the last time...we spent several days and many, many postings discussing whether you should or shouldn't attend another work related function. Bottom line...you need to pull up your big girl panties and make the decision for yourself and stop asking others whether you should or should not go.
Job... thanks but this isn't a work function.... this is a family one. Do you still feel the same? .... I will not go by myself, its at a different house than the last function. I am invited thru him, because of him. Not my own invitation.
IF I go, I can leave him on the sidelines and mingle with others. I can do that!
My question is... does it count as a backslide if I go? would going to this event, delay my progress? I am trying soooo hard to drop the rope, get off his pant leg & to focus on pulling myself away. If I go, I won't be pulling myself away from him, but putting myself in his space outside of work. Will this delay or be considered a backslide in my progress? Will he feel "aha", got MM back under my power & will now play catch & release with me ... again? <<< I am not interested in the catch me & release me game any more!!
I would like to make the decision, but not if everyone is going to 2x4 me ... I do not want to make ANyMorE mistakes... not even one!
You can't do it MM. You can't help but have expectations! Your expectations jumped into high gear when he suggested you go.
I
asked if he was asking me to go with him? He said we could go together, and possibly ask my DD if she would be our designated driver.
See, you give yourself away. You immediately thought about wanting more from him. Which is good on one hand.........if you will tell him no thanks. But if you try to convince yourself you can go with zero expectations and keep your hopes from rising to the clouds........I think you will be deceiving yourself. Yes, you have to work with him every day. But being alone in a car ride can feel rather intimate, sometimes. Seeing his family again could stir old emotions. Then there's the ride back. I just don't think you are strong enough, yet. You need more time and growth under your belt before facing this level of testing.
I do think it could set you back. Why? B/c I don't think you can endure the trip and STFU. But you would be setting yourself up for failfure. Besides, look how he was careful to throw a couple of things in there so you couldn't claim it was a "date". He's a sly one.
"I just don't understand why he invites me to stuff if he does not want a relationship & he knows there won't be any sex either. "
its YOU who insists for you and him to be in the same room, then it MUST include a relationship and sex.
HE'S been trying to get you understand the romantic relationship has been over for 2 years, but you refuse to accept it.
HE is simply being personable and relaying the invitation.
but YOU just have to twist it and force it to be more than it is.
I'm with sandi, say no and do not go. if you cant even handle the invite, going to the party would be a disaster.
Magic,
The "should I or should I not go" questions are the same for any function, i.e., be it work or personal. The bottom line is this...only you know whether you can attend, keep your mouth shut and keep the expectations at zero.
Sit down in a quiet place and ask yourself...are you strong enough to do this? Can you go and not have expectations? Can you go and not have conversations about the relationship? If your answer is no...then you have your answer...but you have to be honest w/yourself.
Hi Job... I absolutely know I CAN do that... I know I can keep my mouth shut & no R talk... I can do that!... I will take the time to think this through. No quick answers.
I am just wondering what a person who has dropped the rope & given up would do... thats what I think I want to do.... I am wanting to remain the person who gave up 4 weeks ago.
Gabby... You are correct, I shouldn't be basing my decisions on what he will feel, but how I will feel.... and I don't want to feel "hooked" and I don't want to feel disappointed.
Sandi ... he was very careful. He did it in a way with pause... LOL (same when he was asking me last weekend to go on the patio, with daughter & then we can pick up a vehicle). He first asked if I was going, pause, then mentioned we could bring my daughter if she wanted to go, pause, then we could turn it into a work event and drop off a vehicle for the client, pause. This of course would all happen after our work day. The party starts at 2ish-6.. His pause, was Because I wasn't giving him an answer. Also, with the work event. He was suggesting that I go, because its the right thing to do. He was concerned how he was going to reply, as his phone deleted the email request. Then paused... this is when I said are you asking me to go? He said "we could go together"... pause, then he suggested maybe even my DD could take us and be our driver.... I paused, and said I would think about all of this.
I'm just not sure... I want to preserve my self-value. I do. I also deserve his pursuit. I need to be able to say no to the "carrots".
I am afraid of "hook & release".... honestly.
My fear:
1) I go, he may feel that I am convenient & available to him. A companion on his terms.
2) If I don't go, he may feel that he has tried to be friendly & give up and not pursue me again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I realize those statements are fear based on his responses. I am scared. I know I have no control over him. I need to decide based on what I can handle (at this point its easier to go, because I won't be rejecting him). I know that I need to figure out how to deal with my fear... not what he thinks.
I don't want to do what is "easier" .... just to appease him.
I think his offer to me going is about being casual & nice. No commitments.
I don't want to hurt his feelings of niceness, but casual isn't good enough for me.
One response to saying no to him may be: "I don't think its a good idea right now. besides, what do you think your family would think? ... or, "I thought you said you weren't ready" ???
^^^^ that statement is in reference to the comment he made to me 3/4 weeks ago when in discussion of casual dating and he was concerned about other people thinking we were back together and about public affection. <<< he was not ready.
Thanks for your opinion Gabby. Yes, I have GREAT fears... I need to do what is right for ME... not sure what that is, because I am still focused on his response. I fear either yes or no.
You are right.... I cannot accept that he doesn't want a real rel'p. WTF does he WANT?
The responses... are created from me & agreed a good idea from my friend who is a life coach. What response do you feel is better?
Yes, he invites me to a family party... Yes, I CAN & have said I can go & make it about seeing his family. I would have a good time.... but, does this send the right message about Me? (that I am giving up & dropping the rope?)
Please recall that I am working really hard on letting go... dropping the rope. What does a person who is letting go, do?