I think it's time for a new thread. Here is my initial post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2461750#Post2461750And so my roller coaster ride continues. We had a great 4th of July, spending the day with family and friends at our good friend's house. The kids had a blast as did we. H acted as if all was normal, pretending to be a happily married dad. He has yet to tell his brothers (or anyone else other than his mom) that he's pursuing the divorce and at this point is really not doing much to help his case as to why he has to pursue it. The friends I was certain knew something last week and acted funny were there, and this time they were acting like old times. His best friend especially was talking to me for most of the day like old times, cracking jokes, just being his old self with me so I'm not sure what he knows after all. So then I just don't get. Why pretend? Why not help your cause and not come around with me so at least it looks like there are issues and there's a "need" for you to divorce me. Why put on the act. These people are going to be in utter shock and disbelief when they hear he's started proceedings.
So we got back from the bbq late, put the kids to bed and he left for a few hours, came home and cuddled up to me in bed. He didn't try anything, but just slept all night hugging me. Then the next morning I wake up let him know I'm taking the kids to my parents summer house for the day and will be back the next morning to see his parents off on their extended vacation. He is fine with it, telling me to drive carefully and be careful in general. So for 24 hours I had my old husband back.
Then Sunday we come back and H does a complete 180. He was cold, distant and snappy. Hung out for about 30 minutes with the kids and left until late. Monday morning he completely ignored me. That afternoon he was to come watch the kids for an hour so that I could go to the gym. Just last week I signed up with a trainer that my father in law and brothers in law work with to work out 2 days a week. He is my brother in laws friend. So since H stalks my phone, I don't know if he saw the trainer texting me or what his issue was, but H was so rude to me before I left, ignoring me and acting like a child. I only spoke to him regarding the kids and he ignored me as if I wasn't in the room. As soon as I got back from the gym, he changed and left for the night. This morning again, woke up ignored me and left. Now I get a text that he won't be relieving the babysitter tonight so that means he's not coming home.
There are a number of things I wanted to discuss with him like adults before my lawyer called to make the intro and now with his attitude I don't see that happening. I wanted to discuss separating the phone bill, our kids vacation, his bday next week and whether he'd be doing something with the kids, but I'm afraid that once the lawyers talk this week things will only get worse. Should I attempt to be honest and forewarn him about what the attorney will say (ie him paying my legal fees) so that he is not shocked and doesn't attack me for it or is it pointless? I just think of the motto, "do to others as you would want them to do to you" and I have to say every communication I received from his attorney was like a punch in the stomach. Had he spoken to me about them first I would have taken each better. I'm trying to perserve as much of our relationship as possible for the sake of the children and I DO NOT want this to get ugly, but I guess I have no control. Don't know what's best in this crazy world of MLC.
Hey Ssarah,
I can't speak to the lawyer thing, only to the blowing hot and cold by your H.
When I first started all this DBing stuff, I made charts to keep track of my progress and stay on target.
I noticed a definite pattern:
Any real movement towards me that went well was usually followed by a withdrawal, the closer we got, the further away he went, often for a few days afterward.
This has slowed down some.
I also get the irritable/suspicious thing too, sometimes for reasons I can't figure out.
Like he's mad at me for something specific, but who knows what?
So I think all that is pretty normal.
You've been a busy lady!
--GG
GoatGal I'm starting to see that pattern as well. He gets closer to me then distances, then comes again, then further away, so I guess this is par for the course. In the beginning I was thinking of keeping a calendar but he snoops so much that I didn't want him to find it. Maybe I will though. As for staying busy, it's the only thing that keeps me sane right now. I'm trying to GAL and have one activity a week. So far I've been reaching my goal.
What you are witnessing is the distance/pursuer game. They come closer when we distance and when we come closer to them, they distance themselves from us. Did you read the thread on Distance and Pursuit? If not, here's the link to it:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209
The distance/pursuer write-up is HUGE and such an eye-opener. I not only used it in my sitch, but I've shared it with others who are in "the dance" with their partners, too.
Ssarah, I have to be honest: I haven't read through your first thread. But my initial response to whether you should talk to your H about what the L is going to say is a big, fat "heck no." No need to soften any landings there ... or create a hostile discussion between the two of you, either. Yes, YOU would have felt better if your H had given you a heads up before you received legal paperwork/communication. But you're in a different place than your H, and he's in a different place than you. You're living in reality, while it sounds like he's clearly in La-La Land.
Don't deny him the dignity of his own struggle. He's the one asking for the D, yes? As Starsky says, there's a reason they put that little v. between your names.
NO divorce is truly "amicable." It wasn't, by "nature," meant to be.
Hi Train,
While no D is EVER amicable, DON'T try to tell that to the typical MLCer! Seems like they ALL think it will just be a breeze and no one (them, you, kids, family, etc.) will be at all hurt. No, like them they seem to think everyone will be sooo much "happier" and life will become a bed of roses!
That's certainly the script, isn't it? Sigh.
Job, I did read the pursuer/distancer thread a while back but I definitely needed a refresher so thank you. I defintiely struggle with keeping my wall up when he's pleasant and like his "old self". I forget about MLC for a moment and think maybe he's coming back and then wam, I get smacked over the head again.
I'm just curious. In your years of navigating this site, has anyone reconciled with their MLCer after a D? I know it's mentioned as a possibility but has it actually happened. As Train said the D is never amicable and so I don't see how anyone comes back together with that much extra fuel added to the fire.
Train, he is the one pursuing the D and he's pushing hard for it. That's the goal he's set for himself since BD and that's the only thing on his mind. After D he will have his slate clean to start his new life and be happy. It's what he deserves. The kids will be fine as will I but he just "needs" to do this. I am a very honest person by nature and have always been with H about EVERYTHING. I've always told him EVERYTHING and so for me to go to a L and then have this dropped on him seems wrong to me and doesn't make me feel good. And that's when I have to remind myself that there's no more us, there's no more confiding and sharing and trusting. It's hard but I have to stop worrying about him and focus on me and the kids. He doesn't care or respect us so why am I. He really makes me feel crazy I tell you.
Matt165 that's the thing, how out of touch with reality do you have to be to think a divorce will make you feel good. Unless you're in an abusive relationship, a couple's struggles are something you at least attempt to work on and not just run away from. I didn't even get a warning shot about my H's feelings. It was just a sit down with him telling me all that is wrong with our relationship and all that he's missing and that he's out. No, lets work on this, let's try for the kids, nothing. Just done. In what other situation do you respond this way. Whether it be work or relationships with friends, you make attempts to fix things, to find a middle ground. But here, you destroy your family and it's okay. I really hate the MLC.
Ssarah,
Don't feel guilty about doing what you need to do to protect yourself.
The fact is, you can't trust him right now.
I'm the same way, I was always transparent, had nothing to hide. It was a matter of integrity with me.
I've had to learn to play it closer to the vest.
It doesn't make you a bad person, just a wiser one.
As for "The Script", I was told that after a divorce, the fact that he'd lose almost half his income, the house, and we'd have to re-home the animals, that we would no longer be able to care for them... (All this FACT, per my lawyer), H yelled in my ear:
"This is all just YOUR DRAMA!!!!!!"
And the few times I tried to get him to follow his path through to the end to make sure he's thought it through, he didn't, for whatever reason.
Except there was no reason.
He had a picture in his head and that didn't seem to include reality!
Be strong, Ssarah!
--GGG
On this site? I believe many years ago that there were a couple of mlc parties that did reconcile. This site represents only a small portion of those dealing w/the crisis. As for real life, I've seen a few reconcile, remarry and have remained married and have celebrated many happy years together. Those that remarried have said that the second time around w/their spouse was far better than pre crisis.
It all depends upon the damage, whether both parties are willing to do the necessary hard work and yes, the MLCer has a lot of work to do before the lbs should reconsider taking them back. The MLCer may opt not to do the hard work and continue on his/her merry way and bounce around in life and regret what he/she has done...but again, too much work for them to even try. The lbs may have moved on completely and have met someone new and is in a new relationship or remarried and doesn't want to be "burned" by the mlcer again.
The future is unknown and no one knows what it holds for us that far away.
Oh my, Sarah.
I hear myself a year ago in all your words! To me that was the thing that I just couldn't understand, how does someone just throw away so many years, hurt so many people and not even try? My W would say things like "I have tried" but couldn't answer just WHAT she tried doing! I felt all the things you are now and when she went from maybe just separating to "I have already filed because my dad talked me into it and is paying for it", in less than a week, they all came right back again.
My W says that she will be a better mother after a D because she will be 'happy". She has always said that for her, to be happy, she does what happy people do, while I was the type of person who was "old fashioned" and I think to be happy I have to do the things that will make me happy. When I asked her how many people does she know that left a 20 year marriage and were "happy" because they did? She couldn't answer that either!
They aren't thinking at all! They feel like this will work and it's what they want so they are determined to do it. The more logic you use to try and get them to see what they are doing is just wrong on so many levels, the harder they dig in their heels and keep moving forward! My w had gone through a horrible D when she was 10 years old. She saw all the pain and hurt it caused everyone and always swore she would NEVER do that to the people she loved. Now, she has found all sorts of crazy ways to justify her actions. This is also why they NEED to blame us, to find things about us that we did "wrong". It makes it easier to justify their bad choices.
Believe me, I know it's hard but you must get past these feelings. I still sometimes feel them but I try to just remember that they aren't in their right mind. They aren't thinking clearly (hence the MLC "fog") so they just don't see the truth. The anger and pain do hold us back. I have been dealing with new found anger lately as well. Every time I deal with my W now it seems like she says or does something new and I fight with the anger. All this is why MLC D is so much harder and so different than "normal" D. They truly can't think normally (as evidenced by so many doing the very things they have said all their life they would NEVER do!) they can't see how they are hurting other's as all they can think about is them!
We all hate MLC, that is for certain! It's learning how to keep ourselves sane as we are put through the ringer by the MLCer that will decide if we make it through or allow ourselves to be swallowed up by the hurt, pain and anger. You will get through this. Know that you are in charge of your future even while the WAS is making decisions that affect us so much. Taking back the control by not allowing them to get to us is a big step!
GoatGal, you're right and I have to play it cool. I find it super difficult to turn myself off and just be so secretive and distant but I need to learn to be that way. Thank you.
Job, knowing my H pre crisis and now during he has always been very prideful and stubborn.. so for me to see him not only snap out of this but also admit he's wrong is highly unlikely. The trend I've noticed with those that woke up from the MLC is that they were spiritual and that's another thing H is not. I know this is not something I should be focusing on right now as I should only be focusing on my kids and myself but it's hard not to wonder.
I can relate. My H is also very stubborn and not spiritual at all. He also wanted to start “fresh” - his words. Except he has not been able to do it so far. He is still looking for a “perfect” partner to make him happy. It’s been two years since BD. I’m also wondering if he can ever come out on the other side.
Matt165 thanks for your post. Like your W my H has also done everything he said he wouldn't. He has become a person completely opposite of what he once was. He was always proud of the husband and partner he once was and now he's the polar opposite.
I definitely don't let the pain and anger drive and consume me it just comes on in moments of weakness as it has now. This has been a rough few weeks with my new reality of divorce. I just can't believe that in a matter of less than 3 months I went from vacationing with my husband to him hiring an attorney and seeking a D. I just can't believe how quickly ones life can be turned upside down.
BrightFuture, that's the problem. They will never find the clean slate or perfect partner they are looking for because the issues are all within themselves. And for those like your and my Hs, they may stay like this for good. It's such a scary thought that my H will be this miserable angry negative paranoid person for life when he's only 36. I pray for him that he does not waste his life but that he faces his demons and finds real happiness within himself again.
So an update on my sitch, I hired an attorney today. She will be introducing herself to his L tomorrow morning. Let's see the reaction I get from H when that happens.
He's been extra distant, cold and snappy this week. His birthday is this weekend and we usually have a BBQ for his and his brothers bday at our house. Since most don't know about the D, his brother and my sister in law asked about the BBQ so I mentioned it to him today and he said he did not want to celebrate with everyone. He already has plans to watch the fifa playoffs somewhere and then go out after. He mentioned that maybe we could celebrate with just the kids on Monday but not with everyone. I really wish I never brought it up.
So I wanted to seek some advice. As I've mentioned in other posts my H stalks my phone. He sits on my phone bill and checks who I'm talking to / texting with all the time. I've mentioned to release my number so I can transfer it to my own account and he has yet to do it. Should I bring it up again? My thing is that I have nothing to hide. He's so ultra paranoid, insecure and jealous that if I keep pushing it he may think there is something to hide and will start lashing out more. Do I raise it again anyway? I just hate that he can monitor me.
I would call the phone company and release it myself. You should be on the account too as an authorized user. No way he should be allowed to monitor you. That's just my opinion though. If you don't want to release it then get yourself on your on plan, you can get phones at walmart with no contract nowadays. Protect yourself, start separating accounts where you can, MLC'ers are known to spend money like crazy too.
TL72 if it were only that easy I would have done it a long time ago but ATT won't allow me without his consent. He put a pass code on the account that we can't by pass. Both when I've gone down to the store and called information they tell me that he needs to authorize the transfer. I found out about his affair through the phone bill so he did all this to block me from seeing anything else.
Hi Sarah,
You are right about the phone. I had to release my W from the plan. I would do it and she would go to the store and they wouldn't allow her. Turns out that when I called and released her, it was only temp. You only have a certain amount of time once the "owner" releases the number. Now that you have a lawyer, I think this is something he can get done pretty fast! Just have him tell H's L that you want the # released right away. HE is the one who filed, not you!
An update on my sitch... so yesterday the 3 months of complete disrespect coupled with the new things I learned made me completely lose my mind. I have to say all DBing went out the window and I went crazy. I regret so much losing my cool and giving H and OW the satisfaction they've been waiting and hoping for.. can't do anything about it now.
Here's what happened. Lately H has been growing more distant, leaving earlier and coming home later. Usually on the weekends he would hang out with the kids until 3pm or so before he went galavanting. This weekend, the weekend of his birthday, he really cut things short. On Saturday he left after 1pm and Sunday, on his birthday, he got up, "played" with our daughter for a few minutes and then showered, packed a bag and left at 11:30am. He couldn't even have lunch with his kids to celebrate with them. My daughter is at the age where she loves birthdays, loves to sing and have cake, but God forbid he didn't run to OW first thing in the morning and spend the day with her instead. So that day, against DBing rules, I snooped. I went on opentable, a website we use to make dinner reservations, to see if he had dinner plans for his birthday. What I saw instead was a 6:30pm reservation for 2 on 4/10 to a very expensive restaurant, 2 days after we got back from our adult only vacation to the Bahamas. So I checked my phone to see what if anythign was said that day. He had sent me a text saying he had a networking event that night that he had to go to. Then another text at 1:26am to turn the house alarm off that he's pulling up. So he had a nice little 7 hour date with OW 2 days after coming back from vacation with me. All of this time I discounted their relationship as nothing more than sexual and maybe a shoulder for him to lean on. I thought he was stictly hanging out in her apartment, not flaunting it and running around town with her. Now I see they were much more serious and out in the open. BD was 4/21. I was certain that up until that point it was purely an EA. Boy was I wrong.
Then, Sunday night he comes back at 2am and I hear him playing clips on his phone of what sounded like a concert. One of our favorite artists is on tour in our area and we always go see him together. This time I went with my cousin and offered to get him tickets for fathers day from the kids. He said not to that he may go with his one friend and they're going to get close up seats. Well I check stubhub and see $900 floor seats for July 5th in Philadelphia (we live in NYC). I couldn't believe it.
So Monday morning I get a text from my gf asking me how I'm holding up. I tell her I've had to 2 blows this weekend and tell her what they were.. how he was wining and dining her way before BD and how he bought her floor seats and took her on a road trip.. to which my gf responds I know I saw the video. I freaked. She said check instagram. I do and there it was 2 videos from the concert shot 3 feet from the artist. He was pretend sleeping next to me and I lost it. I turned and said "you bought $900 floor seats for OW and your flaunting it on instagram?! When are you moving out." And he ignored me. So I asked again. I kept asking until he responded. Then I said you're moving out today. And thats when everything just came out. How I'm done with the disrespect, with him coming and going as he pleases while I raise the kids, do his laundry and keep the house. That I don't want to look at his face anymore.. how I was trying to save a marriage with the person I married and not this lying sneaky scumbag. It got so heated and out of hand. 3 months of pent up frustration just oozed out of me. Despite me telling him that I will throw his things out if he won't move, I don't think he's doing anything about it still. He came back this morning to shower and get ready for work, and left with nothing again.. as if he will come back.
I'm wondering now if my days of DBing are up? If there's no turning back from this? I feel like the things that were said Monday morning, after being so good through all this, set me back to somewhere that is unrepairable. I hate that I let him make me be the bad one. I am so spent, emotionally and physically. Between taking care of my 1 and 3 year old (who both have had the stomach virus for days), work and maintaining the household physically and financially, I am just utterly drained. I seriously feel like packing up myself and my kids and just living under a rock. I'm really starting to crack under the pressure of it all.
Sarah,
I'm sorry you are exhausted and having a difficult time. It can be extremely draining running the house and taking care of sick little ones. I hope everyone is feeling better and that you try to relax a little (easier said than done I know). Be kind to yourself.
First, you aren't bad. You are human and reached a tipping point. Sometimes, you need to release those pent up feelings. Are you done DBing? Only you can answer that and please remember that DBing is for YOU.
I cannot tell you what you *should* do as only you can decide. However, I suggest thinking about what you want right now. Don't worry about your h right now. He's a big boy. Focus on you and your kids.
You can do this;-)
Thank you for your response Georgiabelle. If you ask me generally do you want to save your marriage? I will tell you yes. But then if you ask me if I think there's hope, I will tell you absolutely none. So then do I continue on, keeping this whole affair and what's going on in my house a secret, internalizing everything and living in a hell? I can't tell my brothers because if I do they will turn on him and he will hate me forever. Now after yesterday he has convinced his brothers that I'm just crazy and threw him out (poor him). I'm really starting to feel crazy myself. I don't know how to turn my mind and emotions off and just let things be. I'm sitting here reading old texts between my husband and myself trying to figure out where things went wrong, when this affair started and when this marriage was lost. I keep searching for these answers and I don't knwo how to stop. I just feel like I'm losing all control over myself and everything else.
Ssarah,
You need a life preserver, so I'm throwing you one---catch!!!!
No. You have NOT blown it.
Frankly, I'm amazed that you put up with this for so long. You are only human.
He is not treating you with the respect you deserve.
DBing POV: Yes. Snooping leads to this kind of thing.
OTOH, at some point you need to know whether or not you're being given the doormat treatment, and it sounds like you were.
Now you know better.
It's really going to be about the overall interactions, not just one or two big baddies.
If that were the case, there would be no one on this board because we'd all be divorced and there would be no hope...
In my case, I ran my H through the ringer with every emotion you can describe for weeks. Then the rage turned to sadness, physical illness, throwing up every time he came home.
I called him every name in the book, OW too, I cursed him, told him I wished he were dead, that he disgusted me, that I would never let him touch me again, that he was a limp-d*ck loser, sick creeper, pathetic old man, deluded, pathetic... if I thought of it, I said it.
And a part of me needed to get this out. Not all the hurtful stuff, some of it I didn't even really mean, but I wanted to HURT HIM so he'd know how I felt.
Of course, it didn't have any effect because he had no empathy and it only fueled his desire to run away.
Here's the upside though.
I found this board, changed my behavior, and although we are still "estranged", it's a lot better between us.
I think he needed to see and hear how I felt, what he did to me, even if he couldn't digest it at the time.
I was being honest about how I felt, and so were you.
I know exactly how you felt and only a saint could have looked over at him "sleeping" calmly like the cat who ate the canary and you're supposed to just suck it up and pretend you're just find and dandy.
I think at some point, it's unrealistic.
Which is why I had to get my H out. I could NOT live with him if he was going to continue doing some of those things.
It's painful,disrespectful, cruel... and it will make you sick if you allow that stuff inside.
Maybe it's best if he's out for a while.
After all, how can he respect you if now he KNOWS that you know the gory details, and here you are being all sweet and supportive?
I think you have to define exactly where your boundaries are, and I strongly suspect he just stepped over a bunch of them.
What are the consequences? What are YOU going to do in response?
He is going to continue doing whatever--but how are YOU going to handle this?
It's not the end of the world. It's just a bump. And maybe it needed to happen.
Learn from it, and draw your line in the sand.
I feel your pain. This is about as bad as it gets.
((((((Ssarah))))))'
---GGG
GoatGal, you are absolutely right. I was being too attentive, too responsive and too available for H. I was being treated like a doormat. My blow up on Monday was just me reaching my boiling point. And after Monday's anxiety and yesterday's cry-fest, I feel much saner today. It's like I had a bit of an epiphany and I see now the distance I need to keep from him. Not for him but for ME. To protect myself and my sanity.
You made me laugh out loud with your description of what you called your H because that was me on Monday. I never cursed that much in my life, never felt such rage and exploded like that in my life. I seriously was insane. The name calling of H and OW didn't stop. And that's exactly it. At this point I can't handle the disrespect anymore. The comings and goings, the posting of what he's doing, the disrespect of my kids, not spending any time with them when they crave him. Why are you here then? You want nothing to do with me or the kids then go.
So it looks like I should have gone nuts on him a long time ago because he finally spent some quality time with my daughter yesterday. I get a text midday that he will be relieving my babysitter and will be "home" until I get back from work. I came home and he was there. I did a few things and then was ready to put S1 to bed. Normally this is the time that he slithers out leaving D3 by herself in the family room while I'm up with S1. Last night, I put S1 to sleep go down and there H is cuddling on the couch with D3. I was surprised but didn't say anything. I get her dinner ready and normally (even a week ago) would ask if H wanted anything. This is another opportunity for him to run. He tells me no he's eating out and goes. This time I didn't ask hime anything. As I get something for myself H says that he's going to order something in and asked if I wanted anything. I tell him no, eat something and go up to my bedroom. The two of them ate together then his dinner came and my daughter ate some more with him. About 8:45pm I hear little feet coming towards my bedroom and hear H saying, go inside and tell mommy goodnight. He then went in with D3 and did the whole nighttime routine, getting her ready for bed, reading books and tucking her in. This was the first time in months, way before BD that he did that with D3. This used to be their sacred ritual and she missed it. He then came to my bedroom asked me something about D3, changed into sweats and went downstairs. An hour or 2 later he came back to my bedroom, told me he has the $ to pay my daughter's tuition (I've been asking for weeks and he kept saying he didn't have $) and that if it's okay he'd be staying in the guest room. I didn't say much too him, just that I didnt care what he did. He went down, turned all lights off and by 11pm, for the first time since before BD, didn't go out but instead went to bed.
Now I don't think he's a changed person. Do I think the same will happen tonight? No. But at least my daughter got one night with her daddy. One night of the old things they did.
As for me I'm trying to stay as dark as possible. Since Monday he has sent me 3 texts and I've responded to none. He just sent me one saying he'll be home to relieve the babysitter again "FYI" and I did not respond. I think I'm slowly understanding the distance I need to keep in my interactions with H and my availability. Like you said GoatGal, I think Monday did need to happen for me to let him know exaclty how I felt and to put that distance between us. Lets see how the rest of my week goes.
Hi Sarah,
How did he react? Did he defend himself or his actions? I can't imagine what he could say to any of it! May be time for H to start seeing what "single" life is like. If he doesn't leave you need to stop doing things for him. He can do his own laundry, he's a big boy. If he thinks it's OK to date while married, live under the same roof, ignore his kids, well he can do things for himself. Make enough food for you and the kids and if he wants to eat, he can cook for himself. Did he tell his brothers that he was out dating other women and spending $1800 for tickets to concerts while you are left at home taking care of his home and kids? He has been cake eating for way too long. I just don't get what these MLCers think. Did he expect you to just be OK with this behavior?
You lasted way longer than I would have in trying to be supportive with the way he has been acting and the things he has been saying. Time for him to start owning his actions. To put the videos on the internet is just so awful! Don't feel bad for exploding! He needs to hear what he has become. Keep your distance, detach totally from him and his craziness. You can do this Sarah!
PS. Didn't see your last post before I wrote this one! Good for you! It's about time he started to own up to his actions. I still think everything I said above is still valid. He wants to live in the guest room, well he can do for himself!
Matt, his reaction was silence, followed by a look of shock. He tried to defend himself for a minute or two but for the most part kept asking me if we could just talk. That he will move out but that he can't right now. I just responded with more rage. That he is moving out today. That he should be moving in with OW into his dream apartment anyway. That everyone knows she exists so why not just get on with it.. wipe your slate clean and start that new life of yours while we start ours. As for his brothers, he feeds them lies and they believe him. Then they see his actions, see that he's always irratic and MIA and doubt him again, but that's when he shovels more lies down their throats.
As for the food and laundry, that's done. To clear up my post about last night, I made something for D3 and he sat with her and helped her eat (not ate together) and then H ate the food he ordered for himself. I didn't offer to make nor did I actually make anything for him.
It's really time to let go. It's time for him to go off in the world and find himself, because I'm done riding the roller coaster with him.
Quick question for the experienced DBers. Tomorrow I'm taking my kids to a water park for the day 1.5 hours away. Do I tell H that we are going or let him wonder where we are? Not sure what I'm supposed to do since I'm attempting to stay dark.
Hi Sarah,
Will your h be at work during your trip to the waterpark? If so, I don't think you need to tell him. If he will be home and watching you guys pack up and leave, you could say "taking the kids to x for a while."
And yes, let him go.
So an update on my sitch, not too much happened the 2 weeks since my volcanic erruption until this weekend. H was home for the 2 weeks, but as OW's birthday neared (this past weekend), I expected for him to go running back and he did. This weekend was the 1st time ever (since BD or in our 13 yrs together) that without notice H did not return home. From my observation their R hit a rough patch for 2 weeks but now it's back on track. He never came home Friday night, came just to shower and change Saturday afternoon (and of course have a confrontation with me) and then went out for a few hours on Sunday again. The only positive I see is that their perfect union is slopwly starting to crack. They had their 1st fight I think so let's see where that takes them.
I've been wondering something and would like everyone's insight. H is leaving for almost a month in August to visit family. At this point it will be nice to have him out of our hair. Everyone keeps saying that this distance may make him miss me and the kids more since he'll be surrounded by family.. our nephews and other kids. I think this distance may put the focus more on OW and that being away from her for a month may make him realize how much he cares for her and not us. Just curious to see what you all thought.
On another note, after all that talk of D and hiring an attorney, H has still done nothing to pursue. This weekend when he popped in to freshen up for OW I confronted him about bills to which he blew up at me. Usually in his typical MLC fashion this would be when he'd threaten his one step closer to D (yelling that he'll hire, yelling that he'll send in the check to finally retain, yelling that he'll file), but this time he didn't even mention it. Funny how when I finally called his bluff and retained a real lawyer I took all the wind out of his sails.
Ssarah, you never know what the heck they are going to do or the situation with ow. It was a few month after h telling me he wants a d and not pursuing... I felt the same way as you- like what the heck? Maybe he does not want to. (Which I really don't think they know what the heck they want other than to feel good by the minute.)
I was told via text message that he was pursuing divorce. Nineteen years and I get dumped through text-- just be prepared. Not that its going to happen, but I wouldn't read into it too much as a sign. They act on spur of the moment, not really on realistic future plans. Hang in there! I can tell you are very strong.
Mighty, I absolutely agree with you and am definitely not dellusioned by his non-action. I think that he will strike eventually and when I think long term, I do think we'll end up divorced. There is no communication between us other than related to the kids. We are just 2 ships that pass so I don't think he'll last like this for much longer. He's just buying time because he's not sure what he wants. I just don't think he's ready this moment to move out and be done.
Sarah,
I'm happy to hear things have settled a bit. I'm gong to be brutally honest (and this is just my take), in regards to your h going on the trip, he will think and feel whatever it is he feels. I doubt a month away will make him realize what he has. I think the difficult thing when dealing with someone in MLC is that you can do all the work in the world and may have already been a spouse your h would be a fool to leave, and it simply doesn't register with the MLCer. If your h cannot deal with responsibilities, then he may not miss family life for quite some time. This is just my 2 cents.
Your h is on a long journey. Keep focusing on you and the kids. Yes, your M had flaws like every relationship. Work on making Sarah the absolute best Sarah
possible and remind your children how much you love them.
Hang in there!
Hi Sarah,
I'm with Mighty here. My W and I came to an agreement that she wasn't going to get a L or file. One week later she leaves from D's graduation (once in lifetime event) without saying why. Find out that she went to see L and a couple days later tells me she not only saw him but she filed as well! This was several weeks before she even left the home! Since then all she has done is take things from the house that she wants but hasn't pursued since initial filing. That can (and will) change without a moments notice. All that has to happen is they get it in their head for any reason and it's off to the races without one thought to what it means down the road. Just be careful and expect the worse and be surprised if it doesn't come to pass.
I agree with you Georgiabelle and it doesn't sting to hear that because that's what I think too. I just wanted to put it out there to make sure I wasn't being a Debbie downer. I absolutely don't think it will make him miss us more. If anything he will be "single" for a month and able to do whatever he wants. My concern is that it will make his R with OW stronger, but again, I have no control over that, so I need to let go. As you always say, not my sandbox ;-)
I have no control over that, so I need to let go. As you always say, not my sandbox ;-)
Yup ^^^^^^^^^
Sarah,
In my experience, it really doesn't matter what we do, what they do, whether they stand on their head while reciting the Declaration of Independence or if we choose to dance naked in public square...the MLC journey has a life of it's own and they will do whatever they feel they NEED to do at the moment. Try not to read too much into it and carefully guard your self-esteem from further damage....by reassuring yourself frequently that it has NOTHING to do with YOU!
Hey Matt165 I was just reading your recent posts and am sorry for the place you are in. Hopefully your W will leave you alone long enough for you to regroup and be strong again.
I agree with you regarding my H and his filing. The MLCer is definitely unpredictable and fly by the seat of their pants. Every decision is made in the now, having no regard for the future. I'm sure in the coming days I will get the dreaded call from my attorney to let me know he's filed, I'm just not doing it for him. I think he's hoping I'll make that decision for us both but I won't. Don't you sometimes wish you could just snap your fingers and make all of this go away?! If it were only that easy!
Thank you for that LoisB, your advice is a great reminder of why I come on here to post in the first place. You all put things in perspective in a way that no one on the outside of this can. Our family and friends can say whatever they want, but as much as they try, they just don't get it.
I have to stop even thinking about these scenarios and just move forward... with just me and my 2 little ones. Thanks for helping me put the brakes on these thoughts.
Sarah,
Your friends are thinking in a logical, rational way. In their mind, of course h would miss his family. Your h isn't logical or rational. He's operating on sheer emotion.
And for the record, I hope my sandbox has a hammock, ocean view, and a berate with an umbrella:-)
So is it against DB and standing in general to lock H out of our bedroom? After 2 weeks of keeping it cool with OW he is in full swing once again. Today he left at 8:30pm saying he was going to get something to eat. 2.5 hours later he is still out. I'm sure he'll show up at 1 or 2am and I do not want him strolling into our bedroom like everything is just peachy. This is not a pit stop where you come to rest, change, freshen up and go again and I'm really sick of H treating our home as one. But then that shows that he's phased me so it's probably not something I'm supposed to do. I just seriously don't want him near me tonight.
So I was wrong, he came home at 4:30am and not 1 or 2am, to a locked bedroom door. After knocking and calling my cell, he jimmied the lock open and came in saying he wanted his phone charger but of course changed and got in bed. I couldn't physically stand to be near him. Against DB rules I said to him this isn't a motel, pit stop or bath house for him to keep his things and come and go as he pleases... not a place for him to just pop into to freshen up for OW. He of course responded that he wasn't with her and that I'm crazy. I laid in bed for a bit and couldnt take being in such close proximity to him so I went downstairs to the family room. Minutes later he followed asking me to go back to our bedroom and that he'll just sleep in the guest room. I told him just to leave me be, that I didn't want to be around him right now. He then tells me he wasn't with "her", that he was at his office and fell asleep on the couch there. I told him that I don't and can't believe a word he says to which he responded that he knew, and that's why we can't fix things (projecting once again). Then he tells me, "you know, I'm going to be going out, I can't just sit in the basement" as if he's been exiled to there. I just responded that it is not normal for a person to come home at 4:30am on a Tuesday night. He didn't say anything and finally left me alone.
Is it normal for an MLCer to blatantly deny the A. When I read everyone's sitch I see the MLCer deny initially but eventually they stop spinning and just admit their love for OW. My H was admitting more 2 months ago than he is now. This limbo land is really driving me batty. Stop disrespecting me and the kids and go experience this life you want and need. I really wish I could push him out the door with bags packed.
Those who's MLCer was having an A and still living at home, how did you deal? What boundaries did you set and how did you get through each day?
So sorry to hear about last night Sarah,
While my W was living at home I don't think she was having an A but then again, I really can't be certain. I knew that if she had I wouldn't have been able to stand any longer so I didn't snoop or ask questions. I can say this. Just a couple days ago when my W freaked out while packing things to take to "her" house, she said that she had to leave our home because she had to sleep on the couch for 6 months and how "uncomfortable" that was. No one told her to sleep there. In fact even the kids told her she should be sleeping in her bed with me. She acted like this was her ONLY choice or that she had been exiled out of our bedroom. Heck, I even offered to sleep on the couch if she wanted. I think they get this idea in their head and have no choice but to act on it. If she had slept in our bed she may have started to change her mind and she fought that with all her might. It makes no sense but what do they say or do that does make sense?
What possible reason did H have to be at his office or fall asleep on the couch there? I don't know many people who go out to eat at their office. While it wasn't "good DB" to lock the door, IMO you are setting a boundary with him. If he is going to go out and play with OW or stay out until 4:30 AM without saying where he is or why, you don't want him sleeping in your bed. I don't see anything wrong with that. Just my thoughts.
And by the way, he was so wrong to jimi the lock, even if he just wanted his phone charger! He knocked and called your cell and if he wasn't an a$$ he would have known that meant that you didn't want him in there and to leave you be. Why they think they can do things that if we were to do them they would blow their tops is so frustrating!
Hang in there Sarah. You can get past this!
Matt I'm thinking the same thing. I'm done with being his doormat and just internalizing everything and letting him go on his merry way. Not sure if it really falls in line with standing or DBing but he needs to know when he's stepped over the line. Did I show too much emotion last night, not sure, but I dont think I did. There was no drama or yelling just simple statements made. and that was my sentiment exactly. I've never locked our bedroom door so if I did I obviously don't want to be around you. But he shows no respect for me so his actions just follow suit.
As to your W, sounds like she wanted space just like my H does when he goes to the basement, yet somehow even that's our fault. That's just the way their world turns I guess.
So I was wrong, he came home at 4:30am and not 1 or 2am, to a locked bedroom door. After knocking and calling my cell, he jimmied the lock open and came in saying he wanted his phone charger but of course changed and got in bed. I couldn't physically stand to be near him. Against DB rules I said to him this isn't a motel, pit stop or bath house for him to keep his things and come and go as he pleases... not a place for him to just pop into to freshen up for OW. He of course responded that he wasn't with her and that I'm crazy. I laid in bed for a bit and couldnt take being in such close proximity to him so I went downstairs to the family room. Minutes later he followed asking me to go back to our bedroom and that he'll just sleep in the guest room. I told him just to leave me be, that I didn't want to be around him right now. He then tells me he wasn't with "her", that he was at his office and fell asleep on the couch there. I told him that I don't and can't believe a word he says to which he responded that he knew, and that's why we can't fix things (projecting once again). Then he tells me, "you know, I'm going to be going out, I can't just sit in the basement" as if he's been exiled to there. I just responded that it is not normal for a person to come home at 4:30am on a Tuesday night. He didn't say anything and finally left me alone.
Is it normal for an MLCer to blatantly deny the A. When I read everyone's sitch I see the MLCer deny initially but eventually they stop spinning and just admit their love for OW. My H was admitting more 2 months ago than he is now. This limbo land is really driving me batty. Stop disrespecting me and the kids and go experience this life you want and need. I really wish I could push him out the door with bags packed.
Those who's MLCer was having an A and still living at home, how did you deal? What boundaries did you set and how did you get through each day?
Sarah, my heart breaks for you while I am reading this. I hate that- living with and dealing with the confusion, lies, mistrust... all the emotion and not knowing how to respond. I think you handled it very well. I am glad you stood up for yourself. I do not think it goes against dbing, because you were setting boundaries. And, you were hurt. I understand. Sometimes I wonder if we should always hide all of our hurt. There is a line- you are his wife, no matter what your situation is right now. He is crossing that line, and you let him know that you have expectations as his wife. You did not argue or go crazy. I think when we react with our emotions taking the lead is when it gets pointless (the way mlcers act!). You were clear and to the point.
You asked if they deny the a. Well in my case- FOR SURE! He did everything he could and took advantage of my trust. He knew exactly how to manipulate me to believe him. He continued this even after he moved out. In fact, he bought a house with her when he found out she was pregnant (and not until 4 months preg). This is the only reason he did tell me. He avoided it until he couldn't any longer. To make matters worse, my s17 found out a few weeks before me. It was terrible for him. He continuously told h to tell me, and h still put it off. My poor s. He had to live these lies and secrets... So yes, he denied and hid, lied and cheated. Even when there was evidence, he'd explain it away. He would even come back a few days later with come made up story. I don't know why they hide it if they are "done" but some do.
Hang in there. Stay strong. You are making good choices. You can do this.
Thanks Mighty for your kind words. I don't know how you stay as strong as you do with what your H has put you through. It's just unimaginable for a normal person to treat someone this way. But I guess that's it, they're just not normal b
So he's now sleeping in the guest room every night. He came home late on different night too and again it made me anxious and uncomfortable. So I got up and went to the guest room. The next night without asking he slept there and has been in there since.
I'm finding this journey to be tougher and tougher with each passing day. I thought I'd be getting stronger and more detached but instead I'm getting more resentful and hurt. He is now staying out until 3:30 to 4:30am every single night. The sight of him the next morning just boils my blood. Today he tried saying something about the house to me and I just walked away, completely ignoring him. I can't even fake it right now. He's leaving on Sunday for a month and I look forward to the "time off" from him. I look forward to not worrying about when he's coming or going, where he is or who he's with. I think this time will really help me detach and fall into my own routine. It will also be a good practice run for when he does move out, which I'm sure will happen soon.
So very sorry about this Sarah,
I wish I had something good to offer you but I only have this... until you stop him, until you set the boundary that he just can't do this and expect to also have a W and a home, he isn't going to suddenly stop. Every time my W started to make a positive change, something new would happen (in her head) and it was right back to me and her bad M causing her pain. The more "space" I gave, the more she needed. You say he is staying for your S's sake? How is acting the way he is now good for your S? How is treating you the way he is helping things? He seems to respond when you don't allow him to get away with crap, when he notices that you are pulling away. Pull away totally. Don't respond to his crap. Don't get drawn into his drama. How can things get worse?
Like you said, he is most likely going to leave anyway. Let him go and GAL while he is away. You are going to be fine. You are stronger than you think. I can tell from your posts.
Matt165, I don't know why he's staying. I THINK he's staying for the kids (D3 and S1) but I don't know for sure. He has said since BD that if it wasn't for the kids he'd be long gone, but whether that's true I don't know. I would say another thing that keeps him around is that he's unsure. He doesn't know what he wants and so he can't make that final decision to leave. This is not really about me, but about breaking up and walking away from our family, our home, everything we've built up together. Is it okay for my kids, especially D3, to see daddy come and go as he pleases? Absolutely not. I don't want to raise my daughter with insecurities.. not knowing if daddy will be there for her or not. Asking where's daddy? Why isn't he home? And as much as I want him to move out for my sanity, am I ready for that? I don't know. If it happens then I will have no choice but I don't know that I am ready to decide fro him. That is why I am welcoming this month off. I will be able to detach and become me again (hopefully).
As I've mentioned H is leaving Sunday for a month and I need some advice. Since OW's birthday a week ago, H has dove into the A and in turn things have been extremely strained between us. I've basically gone dark with him, he's been sleeping in the guest room and when I do speak to him I'm not that friendly. Should I try to fake it more the next couple of days.. be less harsh and more "friendly" before he goes so that he doesn't leave with things so strained. It's me that's having a problem faking it and putting more and more distance between us. Or should I remain firm and just let things be.
Hey Sarah
I believe you should remain firm and let things be. I think at the beginning of my journey I thought somehow if I was understanding enough and nice enough my xH would see that and come home. I dont believe that. I think the DB book suggests that but I dont think it works if its a MLC.
My reality was that the day my xH dropped the bomb, which came out of no where just like your bomb, my xH never looked back at me. My xH only looks for reasons to this day to believe I am a B!tch. They need to justify their behavior.
Right now he is so "in love" with OW that he needs to believe that you caused this.
I dont think being more friendly works - I think showing him that you have your own life and possible your own OM is the only think that could make him do a double take.
I agree with what other posters say about let him feel like what its like to do his own laundry etc.
Also have you read the book This Isnt The Season You Think It Is by Laura Munson.
You wrote this at the beginning of this thread
""Matt165 that's the thing, how out of touch with reality do you have to be to think a divorce will make you feel good. Unless you're in an abusive relationship, a couple's struggles are something you at least attempt to work on and not just run away from. I didn't even get a warning shot about my H's feelings. It was just a sit down with him telling me all that is wrong with our relationship and all that he's missing and that he's out. No, lets work on this, let's try for the kids, nothing. Just done. In what other situation do you respond this way. Whether it be work or relationships with friends, you make attempts to fix things, to find a middle ground. But here, you destroy your family and it's okay. I really hate the MLC""
You are right, their actions make no sense. I truly believe that what comes around goes around and there is no way your H or his OW will find happiness without first falling to their knees.
HAve you ever checked out Alanon. Even if there is no Alcohol directly involved in your sitcH it is a great place to meet new friends.
Also you mention that you havent told a lot of friends and family about your witch yet cause that what it suggests in the DB book to keep the road home clear, which I totally get and I too waited months before telling people. In retrospect I regret that move, it really held me back and didnt draw my xH closer.
Check out Labugs thread for a recent success story.
Sarah,
Great post from BK. She is spot on with this. Several people know about my sitch (well my h tweets every element of his life) and I can tell you that my friends and h's family think I'm way too nice. The reality is that I'm simply cordial and realize that I'm setting an example for my kids. My boys are looking to me to see how I allow men (yep, their dad) to treat me and I'm shaping my daughters future relationships with male figures because I KNOW she's watching.
I think some people make the mistake of thinking that if you don't react to their insanity and you remain calm, that you are being too nice. I don't think I'm that nice:-) However, when you are dealing with a person in MLC, I do think all bets are off. It even says that in DR. So while you should work on things that make Sarah the best you can be, I also want to say your h may not notice for years. I don't say that to be harsh, just honest. Which really makes all the reason for you to focus on you and the kids! Your life continues regardless of what your h is going thru. Yes, you and the kids will feel the fallout. However , ultimately it's your h's pile of poo to deal with on his own time.
Your kids are only this age once. You can't put your life or their lives on hold because Dad has vacated reality. Enjoy this time from your h.
My h did and said thing he knew where wrong.
Every man alive knows if you call a woman a whore, it's not a great thing. To hit a child with no warning or reason eg child is doing something and by hit them out of the way yo can save an accident, can be excused, to thump and run however.
I was nice I tried to stay, but like so many in mlc land it was just too flogging hard, my sainty was at steak. I was nice thru all that. Farr to nice.
Now I'm just dark, he's not looking back like bk h, not at all.
BklynMom, the weeks after BD my H too only looked for reasons to justify his behavior. Although there were times he'd cry and hug me, his words still always said that he had to divorce and wipe his slate clean and move on. Although, his actions sometimes showed otherwise, he has never wavered on that. And now we're at a point that we do not speak to each other at all, which makes things even more uncomfortable. No hello, no goodbye, no nothing.
And that's exactly it, everything is my fault. He would not be with her if I gave him what he wanted (because I'm a psychic and knew what he wanted). I drove him to this and "this is the hand we've been dealt and we have to deal with it".
I haven't done his laundry in weeks, nor have I done anything else for him. I don't know about an OM but I'm definitely GAL. I finally told my brother and sisterinlaw this weekend which was a relief and I have dinner plans for tomorrow night with one of my closest friends and I finally plan on telling her.
You've mentioned it to me before but I will check out Alanon for sure. Thanks.
Georgiabelle thank you for the advice. Your last statement really hit home and I have to always remember that. As much as I stay busy with the little ones and plan activities, my mind gets lost in the madness that is happening around me. Just for the reason you state alone, that my kids are this age only once, I need to be in the moment more and enjoy life more. They matter too much for all of H's BS to take precedent. I have to genuinely live and enjoy life as if he's never coming back.
With each passing day I'm definitely "getting" that H really doesn't notice me or what I'm doing. Initially he did, but as the days and weeks go I see he's just going deeper into his crisis and into his tunnel where he no longer even has the capacity to notice. It's like there's already so much in his head there's no room for me. So to answer my own question, what I do (outside of going crazy and throwing him out) really won't make a difference. Thanks for putting it all in perspective!
Ggrass it sounds like your H was monstering out of control so maybe it's better that he's gone for now. You and your S don't deserve to be treated that way. My H doesn't call me names nor does he hit our kids, he's just completely detached and disengaged from us, as if he's just a ghost walking around the house.