Hello all and thanks for reading,
I strongly beleive my W is in a MLC.
This started awhile ago, since her dad passed in 09. He was 51 and one of my closest friends too. She never really grieved the loss, just concerned herself with everyone else including me and our 3 sons.
One of our twins became ill shortly after and was hospitalized for several weeks with collapsed lungs. After he recovered my W ruptured her achilles, recovered, lost 40 lbs, and became a fitness junkie more than ever. The manufacturing plant which employs both of us announced a planned closure, and I lost my job shortly thereafter (she will lose hers this year).
I was pretty sure what was going on when she became infatuated with her fitness (I got fit too). We bought motorcycles and learned to ride them together. She cut her hair different and pierced her belly button-big change for a normally conservative lady. I thought I was being cooperative with this, as I believed she was experiencing a mild MLC.
Now for my mistakes...I have/had an anger management problem. Mostly temper tantrums and yelling, reverted back to parental training. I also became absorbed in my education, employment and projects in the garage-mostly selfish pursuits. I was unable to go to my sons doctor appointments etc. due to the lack of understanding in my new job-very old school factory. I hung alot of the burdens in the house and with the kids on my wife the past couple years, but I explained to her that this would change when I get more time at the job and some personal/vacation time.
Last summer I noticed something had really changed. We were not making time for each other. She was wrapped up in her exercising and the kids, while I was focused on work school and projects.
She became friends with a guy from work. He and his GF visited our home and we visited them-became friends. There were alot of rumors, but my W has had many male friends in the past without an issue so I was not too concerned. In August we had a few arguments, on in which I told her I had no time for her (I meant it as a frustration and wanted her help, but she took it like I did not want to have time for her). The next argument I accused her of having feelings for the OM. She admitted she did and our in house separation began.
We both went for counseling. Me for anger management, her for codependency. I slept in the spare bedroom. She did not want to be in the relationship and almost filed. We both visited lawyers to get perspective on what to expect (she told me later she nearly filed then).
The holidays were horrible, and after Jan 1 she asked me to move out so she could "be", which is what her therapist asked her to do. I moved. Our children live with her in the family home.
She has become the "fun" parent, letting the kids slide from my "controlling ways." I have tried to be less controlling and the kids have noticed how calm and less angry I am.
She does not want any relationship talk, but when we meet (kid pickup or drop-off) she always leads me into talking about the R and her telling me I am manipulative, selfish, or controlling. I do not believe this, but it hurts to hear it from her. She passively blames me for her disappointing career, our finances, the broken stuff around the house, my son's anger problems...but says in the same sentence it is not just my fault. Occasionally she says "sorry" to me a ton of times and says it is all her "fault".
My first therapist encouraged me to push for the relationship all I could, which obviously pushed her away more. He retired. My new therapist wanted me to give my W an ultimatum, but thankfully I started reading about MLC and declined to push her anymore.
I plan to be in this for the long haul. I understand this is a crisis for her-not about me.
I moved out to give her space, and I am trying to stay in contact with my kids as much as possible. I call morning and night, take them to dinner on Wednesdays, and attend as many sporting events as I can. Since I moved out of this codependent relationship I am much calmer and sleep better.
I am working on me and this post, although long, is helping.
I fully believe she is in a MLC, but she hasn't abandoned the kids and takes good care of them-even though the rule bending has them confused. Occasionally she calls crying over something that my angry son says or does and I try to help without being too pushy about what I am working on.
This is my point: What else should I be doing? Different therapist? More reading (I have read about 4 books since moving out)? Get a life-I am working on that too.
Any suggestions would be great and thanks for reading this novel...lol
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741Odds and Ends of MLC(new from Delboy)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=656357#Post656357MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template
which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power
Welcome NYK - so sorry you are here. My advice (I'm pretty new at this too) is to read all the homework that Cadet listed above. Read all the different situations and post often. Take care of yourself, learn to detach. I also read a lot at the hero's spouse which you can google, they have a lot of articles and resources as well. you are not alone.
Thanks so much for this. I have been reading the threads and already feel better.
My last discussion with her was on thursday. She told me she is thinking it is over and was pushing for a legal separation. I asked for more time.
I am committed to NOT talking about the r with her. I do not have much hope in her changing any time soon, so I am working on me and buying as much time as I can.
I can't wait until the weather improves so I can ride my motorcycle!
Thank you. I am working on detaching and have been reading the livestrong.com article on detachment. My w has been working on this too, but passively blames me for it and says i "emotionally abused" her. I called her a few names over the years, but I beleive my biggest failing in that way was my defensiveness and intensity...working on it.
Today we texted back and forth for awhile. I listened well to our last conversation and did not mention anything i am doing or talk about r. I am now taking the approach that we need to be just "friends" now and work on our sons and ourselves. It felt good to talk to a friend and I came away from the exchange much happier than any we have had in a long time. This is my new 180 and I think I can do this while detaching...
Had a great weekend with my sons. They really are my saving grace in this sitch. They enjoy "coming to the city" and staying in my apartment...cant wait until the pool is opened here this summer.
180 going well so far. W flooded snowblower and I offered my help which she accepted. She spoke alot about her trip this weekend and how bad the roads were. Sounded like her old self for a little bit...makes me wonder when the monster will strike again.
Oh well.
"I have/had an anger management problem. Mostly temper tantrums and yelling, reverted back to parental training. I also became absorbed in my education, employment and projects in the garage-mostly selfish pursuits. I was unable to go to my sons doctor appointments etc. due to the lack of understanding in my new job-very old school factory. I hung alot of the burdens in the house and with the kids on my wife the past couple years, but I explained to her that this would change when I get more time at the job and some personal/vacation time. "
So have you worked on any of these issues?
Yes I have. I entered anger management counseling last fall...saved my life. I have been working on not being as intense with my sons and they have noticed. I am now in therapy and have identified my need to detach, which my therapist agrees.
I put my college career on hold, and the projects-well I can afford them mentally or financially right now even if I wanted to. Hopefully they can be relaxation/hobbies someday like they were originally.
My focus now is on my sons and their grief, and of course my own head. I have many fears now and I will try to put them to bed peacefully...
So essentially you've "changed" for around 5 months. That's not really long enough to have any lasting changes kick in. What have your interactions been when you see each other in person?
Mr B speaks wisdom.
But I have to ask:
and of course my own head. I have many fears now and I will try to put them to bed peacefully...
Isn't that the more important part right now? More important than your w (not your sons)? I'm sure it would be nice to have it all, but there needs to be priorities, and I think I'd make that my number 2 if I was in your shoes, just after the kids.
AJ
There are not many face to face interactions right now, but I have worked on not talking r and being pleasant. I am keeping it dark right now. When we had interactions before it usually ended with her crying and telling me i am selfish or manipulative and that i emotionally abused her.
I agree with you AJ. The kids did nothing to deserve this, and one of the twins has some anger issues also so we communicate about that alot. I think the revelation this past week about codependence and detaching are a good route to take with my therapist. My next book will be codependence no more. I have DB and DR alomg with several other relationship oriented reads...moving onto self help books.
Just another week in lala land. W decided to trade the minivan in for an extended cab pickup and needed my to sign title. I agreed and was pleaseant, acting the same way I would if a buddy bought a new truck. Finished workweek and went to my buddies farm to help gather sap and learned about sugaring. Trying to stay busy, upbeat, and still missing my boys....
After last weekend I realized where my biggest void was. I miss my children. Under the current arrangement I go from wednesday to wednesday without seeing them. That was unacceptable to me.
I think in the early going I felt so responsible for all of this that I moved away to protect all of us.
Now that I understand that I have faults and am working hard on them and that much of the problem is W's MLC.
I did not understand that she is a completely different person now. I am trying to change, but I think the pain of missing sons is too much and unwarranted. She must believe so too. I approached her about me moving back to the school district and she was all for it. Of course, she had to monster a little bit by pressuring me about separation again and implying I should use my half of the home equity to pay off bills and make it easier...I didnt bite.
Great news! I found a cheap, but nice 2br apartment. I move in May1 and will now have my kids 1/2 of the time. Early on MLC wife's accusations and observations about my parenting skills left me feeling like she was the only reason our kids are so great. I now realize that was also 50% me and so do the kids...I think I am starting to put my life back together and I feel so excited!!!
Congrats on the apt and on putting your life back together!
Indeed. Congrats!
Perspective is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
AJ
Thanks Eric and AJ. I already spoke with some friends in town to make plans for atv rides. My twins are excited about fishing at the new place and getting back to work on projects in the garage. All three sons are happy Dad will be closer to them and able to be with them 50% of the time.
I still miss what W and I had, but I also know all I can do now is work on PMA and detachment.
So today (Easter Sunday) is also my parent's 40th anniversary. I called to wish them a Happy Easter and Anniversary and they were too concerned about me to talk about themselves.
They have had some rocky times and I remember thinking "They are going to divorce someday. Mom can only take so much." Then something weird happened.
When I stopped associating with them my Mother had a real hard time. I tried to patch things up, but my W and my family could not get along. I chose to take sides with my W. This pushed my Mom into a deep depression. My Dad, who formerly was an angry and stubborn man, became sensitive and helped my Mom through one of the toughest times in her life.
They both told me today they know I am a good person and are surprised by our separation. I acknowledged to them that I will have a loving relationship again, with current W or someone else. Just saying it makes me think I am starting to detach...
Life has a lot of twists and turns, nyk. Glad you have a good relationship with your parents and a good attitude toward your life. Hang on to that!
For what it's worth, breaking free from the parents can be difficult - for both sides. It tends to work out though; kids don't go too far for too long, ya know? But we all go through that, to some degree. We have to else we'd end up living with our parents for the rest of our lives
Happy Easter and Happy Anniversary to your parents.
AJ
I think I am starting to get a grip on what I need to do.
I beleive it is important for me to be her friend right now, as when we separated I lost more than a wife. We had a pretty good (not perfect) relationship. We did things together and enjoyed each other's presence.
We made a family together. We took interest in each other's hobbies.
I even expected her to have some sort of crisis after her dad passed. I told myself five years ago "I wouldn't be surprised if she had an affair or something" but I thought that passed. The losing weight, piercings, motorcycles, bizarre (childish) behavior were all things I understood and though would pass. I may not have taken them seriously enough...but I know it is not my place or job to diagnose or push her to get help. If I mentioned it I know she would have gotten mad at me.
She is in counseling now and I hope she finds what she is looking for.
I am working on my relationship with the kids and living on my own. I don't think I would be able to constructively work on a relationship with her in her current state.
I plan to live my own life and see what happens.
I continue to read and get counseling to learn my mistakes for the next relationship...understand my panic and my reactions when my lizard brain is active.
What a week...on the day of the move W sends me a copy of a separation agreement draft.
Apparently she has been sitting on this for awhile and chose to send it on moving day...Tjust a draft written by a lawyer that was garbage. I will be going through it next week and making a list of concerns.
Then I get to the apartment and realized the previous tenant was a smoker...film on everything but no smell. I didn't catch that when I looked at the place. Just seemed like it needed to be cleaned up as it was empty for awhile. Spent the weekend cleaning.
The kids get off the bus here tuesday so I need to get back to cleaning....
Also talked to BIL (W's sister's husband) and he confirmed W has changed...called her crazy at one point...I told him I am not avoiding them, just giving space. They invited me to their camp this summer and I may go, not sure yet.
I have a question:
I spoke to my W about wanting our children to see my parents. I simply stated "I want the kids to see my parents.I understand your concerns and will pay close attention to their interactions to avoid problems you are worried about." Her reaction was "OK" and "I have no control over this anymore..."
Did I push too hard?
Also, when she asked me what my parents thought of us/her now I replied "Sad. They are just sad for us."
Did I offer too much?
Thanks,
Nyk...
Sounds like you did fine on both responses. Keeping it 'neutral' can be tricky...
Thanks LN. I am still trying to start over in my new apartment. The boys and I plan to paint their bedroom and I have three brand new beds to put in there. It isn't home for them quite yet, but they seem to be more comfortable calling our old home "mom's place" and the apartment "dad's place"
I just hate this so much for them...but I also know this is what is best for now.