Baby you can drive my car... - DivorceBusting.com

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So another thread down. For reference as to why I picked the above for my thread title, please read the previous thread.

Car is fixed and almost good as new. Or as good as it was before, I guess. I was supposed to go to a co-workers soiree tonight, but I am not in the mood. I am soured. Extremely soured. I am afraid to spend any money. I feel like Ebenezer Scrooge. Oh for a happy medium.

But I am glad to have a car that works. And almost all the bills are paid. So I guess the rest is gravy. I guess. Things will be better once there is a flow. But like I have said many times I am very impatient.

So I am really starting to miss the kids. It's only been two days. I will see D tomorrow at basketball but unfortunately that means I will see H as well. So I think I will do a bit of grocery shopping and see what deals I can scrounge up. I can do this, right? Right.

I also have heard nothing from H. My hero. My helper. My best friend. What a clown.

WH

Okay guys, need some thoughts...

S just called me and said he is watching his little sister until H gets home from work. S isn't quite 13 and D is 6. Do you think this is appropriate? H and I have had this conversation and I have stated I am not comfortable with this scenario. I am afraid that since our child placement battle is final that the courts would just tell me that H can have this arrangement on his time if he is comfortable with it.

I don't know what the law states, but I often feel like H is pushing these kids to grow up too fast so he doesn't have to take care of them. H is under the gun to work more hours, so instead of asking me, he will just have them take care of each other?

IDK.

WH

Nope it isn't appropriate. How long are the two of them alone?

Find out from your L.

Keep track of when he gets home.

You know, not to sound sneaky or anything. But, I'm wondering if this could...if played right, lead to H relying on you more when he has to work.

Unless, of course, you feel they are in any danger by being alone.

Is H home yet? Under two hours is one thing. More, that's very different.

S and D get off the bus about 3:30. S called me at 5:00 and said dad wasn't home yet. I told him to keep track of when his dad got home because I am not happy about it. There was a dance tonight that S wanted to go to. H kept putting S off. I wonder if this is why.

I have an email Into my attorney. I don't like it one bit.

WH

The dance. That a$$hole.

Is he home now??

Not sure. H had left me a message asking me to call him about 4:30. I didn't get the message until 5:30 and when I called there was no answer. I texted S to see if he got to go to the dance. No answer. I am hoping that means he is at the dance.

You're right. He's an a$$hole. Why can't my kids just have a normal life?

WH

Well, maybe, with your attorney's help, this will be the thing to force his hand to rely on you when he needs to work. I suspect he will use the "work" excuse a lot once he sees he can unload them on you.

See Wishing!?? We all said, he would grow tired of "his time" with the kids. It's already happening.

Think on this one and get lots of advice. He's such a bully, you don't want him to sense you getting your fur up too much. Unless the courts will easily side with you. I think 13 is an acceptable age, in our state, to leave kids alone.

If this is the case and 13 is an acceptable age...then think of how to approach this as "I can help you out H."

I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud.

Thanks Heather. I am not worried about S being home alone. I am worried about D and S being alone and S having to watch D.

S said his dad got home at 5:30 so they were alone for two hours. I'll ask the lawyer what the state statute says about that. I won't make a stink just yet.

S got to go to the dance. Thank goodness. He's home now.

WH

I'm glad he went to the dance. I hope he had fun.

In our jurisdiction 12 is old enough to babysit and be alone...12 and 6 years old. I went through this with my L as my exW leaves kids alone all the time. Now my kids are definitely old enough now. I did have to remember myself too that I babysat when I was 12 and often even infants. If the parent is reachable by cell etc, that is fine.
From what I understand the greater concern will be the relationship between S and D over the long haul. Your S may over time resent D if he is always left to care for her. After school is fine, but if it becomes him raising her, this resentment can happen.
Glad your S made to dance. He needs his time too.

I agree FM. I totally agree. It takes S's time away. But if is okay by state statute I will leave it alone. I think H is trying to get out of paying daycare or else he needs to work later and had S watch her just in case. If this keeps up and H starts working more I will suggest that perhaps they should be by me after school if H isn't available.

So tonight did some grocery shopping. I don't think I broke the bank. I got a lot of stuff. But didn't really spend too much money. I made a chocolate chip cheesecake for the pie/cake auction at church and I made some Funfetti donuts for the coffee hour. I baked the donut part and I will glaze them and add sprinkles tomorrow night. The dough was thick and sticky so it was hard to pipe in the pan so they look more like muffins than donuts. But I guess they will be okay. I need to make something else too as the recipe only made 17 mini donut/muffin looking things.

I'm interested to see how H responds to me tomorrow.

WH

WH so good to read how good your are doing in your own place.

From getting your internet TV set up to baking, you are really doing well. You should be very proud of yourself.

I think you should use this opportunity with S watching D to send your STBX an email regarding it. I think that although what happened isnt wrong it is something you dont want to become standard practice and how can you both address that. Obviously H needs to work but are there some other after school options that can be considered.

Keep us posted

Thanks BK. But D does attend after school daycare. Which puzzles me why he would have her come home.

I will wait to see what my lawyer says.

WH

Ugh ugh ugh!!!

Everytime H is around other people there has to be a dog and pony show. We were at D's dance rehearsal and S's GF and her dad were at the studio because her little sister is in the recital as well. H has to turn up the volume and become Mr. Entertainment. S' GF tells a story about her horse and H has to "one up" her by telling his horse story. A story of how he was chased down by a horse. Pregnant pause. I am silently praying "please no one ask him to tell the story" but her little sister did. She is completely innocent and naive. I did say "you had to ask, didn't you".

H tells the story of how he went horseback riding and the horse attacked him and chased him and tried to bite him. He went on and on as only H could do. I just looked at him and said "what did you do to that horse to make him hate you? Did you poke it in the eye or something?". H didn't like that. I took the spotlight away from him. He would not speak to me the rest of practice. I feel really bad about that too.

He continued on about how S is having a great time at the house making cookies and etc. Hmmmm really? He also invited S's GF to go roller skating. One big happy family. So I texted S after I left and asked him why he was making cookies? He said because he was bored out of his mind and hungry.

WH

I really dont understand your H had daughter not go to after school so that your S could watch her? really?

Regarding the big happy family thing, I know how much it hurts to see them acting this way just know other people know its a big lie and it will catch up to him. The act cant last forever.

H is mad again. Oh if I had a dime for every time.

He brought D to church and wouldn't even look at me. After church he snatched up D and told her they were leaving. He went to get S and S said he had to stay because it was youth Sunday and he had responsibilities. H said you are coming with me. S said no I'm not. H said S never tells him anything, S said he told him. I just walked away and D followed me. Lol. Short version, D and H left, and S stayed.

After H left I asked S what was going on. S said H was furious with me because I refused to take responsibility for the dog and he had to scramble around and get a kennel that he couldn't afford. I explained to S that I had car repairs and S said he knew that. He said H was also stressed because he had to travel and he was scrambling around. Not my problem.

S told me they all went to Cabelas yesterday as one big happy family and her kids ran all over the store and were out of control. I told S about the little boy coming to D's basketball and was obnoxious. S said he is always like that and when S said something to H about it, he said you better to get used to it.

That's what makes me mad. Not that H is angry with me, but that he treats the kid's that way. And that is "ok"? One day it may bite H in the butt, but what about the here and now? I told S it was not his job to parent the younger kids that was what H and OW are supposed to do.

I am trying to learn to forgive and move on, but these are the things that make it more difficult.

WH

WH,
I guess life isn't what he thought it would be. Poor lost soul.

If he's angry w/you, he shouldn't be taking it out on the kids. It's an adult matter and your children have nothing to do w/the dog situation.

As for son watching all of those younger kids, your son should speak up and advise them how much he's going to be charging to watch them, i.e., he will watch his sister for free....but all others...a charge or he's not doing it. Those two adults are a piece of work.

Before it's all said and done, your kids will be w/you more than they are w/him...I see it coming.

I hope you're right, Job. H is just so all about himself. Like usual, he has a plan and when someone throws a monkey wrench into those plans he has a tantrum. I was always the buffer so the kid's weren't affected. How what???

He will do everything he can right now to keep me from having the kid's more than I "should". I hope it comes back on him. Not forgiving, I know, but its how I feel right now.

WH

The thing I struggling with regarding forgiving is how do you forgive Hitler? Some of the WAS are evil pure evil? How do you forgive that?

I really dont know... I, like you and human. When someone continues to burn not only me but my kids it is not not realistic for me to not be mad.

It is all about him. He is only looking out for himself and he will justify and rationalize everything so he can have what he wants. Luckily he can always fall back and blame you for his problems. What a jerk!

From what I understand, BK, forgiveness doesnt mean you stop being angry or what they are doing is okay, but just that you acknowledge you have no power over them and that they have no power over you. It's a process and a decision, not a feeling. It comes in layers, like an onion.

I also had to pry out of H when I needed to pick up the kids because he wasn't going to tell me. So I asked him and he said "we already discussed this, WH." I said we never set a time, H. He said "I'll probably drop the kid's off later this afternoon". I said can we set a time? I have errands to run and I need a time. He said probably around five and he stormed off in a huff. What an idiot. He sure made a scene at church. S said H had to leave for the airport at 5:00 so it will probably end up being before 5:00 since he has to drop off the dog at 4:00.

H should collect some of that steam coming from his ears and heat his house with it.

Btw I checked and child support received the payment on Friday and I should have it in my account Tuesday so I can breathe a bit easier.

I wish I could call out H for the jerk he is, but timing is everything.

WH

So I just off the phone with H. He demanded that I pay half the boarding costs for the dog. I told him I would not do that. He screamed at me that it is my responsibility. I told him it was not. I said I would take the dog when I had my finances straightened out and I just had to pay $400 for the car. He said he had car repairs too and he did not feel empathetic toward me. I said I had no sympathy for him either. He said he was just gonna keep the dam dog. I told him fine, if that is how you feel. He then told me I better get my @$$ over to his place by 5:00 to pick up the kids and then he hung up on me.

What a jerk. What an absolute ass. Who does he think he is??

WH

That man is totally crazy. He really does have some anger issues about life. Well, too bad baby...your twinkle twat could take care of the darn dog. What planet is he on that he is thinking you would pay 1/2 of the boarding fee? The dog is living w/him right now. If he wasn't such a loose cannon, you could almost laugh at him and his situation.

The old saying "be careful for what you ask for". There is a whole lot of truth in that one.

BTW, I thought he was dropping the kids off to you. Be careful around him and try not to get into an argument w/him. I don't trust him one bit.

I thought so too. But he's mad and so he's putting the burden on me. I don't know. He's an idiot. I don't care. It's all about him, no one else. I have been gone for three weeks. He said it's my fault because I mismanaged my money. I said things don't always happen in your timeframe H. He just told me to pick up the kids.

He is getting more and more desperate.

WH

I have the kids now. Thank goodness. What a relief.

H said nothing to me when I picked up the kids. He was cold. Cold as ice. But that is okay. The kid's told me H said I was being mean to him by not taking care of the dog. Apparently the only boarding place that was available was the priciest one in town. And that's my fault. Because I don't know how to manage my money.

And of course the kid's had to hear all about it from H. And D told me her daddy hurt her feelings. She said they got into an argument and H told her if she didn't behave she wouldn't be able to come see daddy anymore. Who says that to a little child??

What a creep.

WH

Document everything, especially what the kids tell you.

Thanks GM.

I have. I already emailed the attorney. I am so sick of H and his baloney. It will never end. It's always something. He is a money hungry jerk.

The kids seem so relieved to be with me. D wouldn't let me go. S is fed ip. I wish they didn't have to deal with this garbage.

WH

I'm sorry, WH. I wish your kids didn't have to be around him. He sounds really abusive.

Isn't it spelled out in the custody order who is supposed to provide transportation to an from visitation? If your h was suppose to bring the kids home then he should have done that. Do not take orders from him. If he doesn't treat you respectfully, end the conversation. Whatever you do, do not let him in your house. He's unpredictable.

No I am supposed to pick them up. My lawyer wanted that so I could make sure to have them on time and not sit around waiting for him.

D left her blanket at his house. I will have S go over and get it tomorrow night.

He is a narcissistic jerk. And so is she. And so are her kids. This is really ugly for my kids.

WH

Yes, this is really ugly for your kids. I am so very sorry. I know more than anything you want to make things better for them and you are. You're doing a wonderful job of managing all of the logistics and stress. WH, please take very good care of yourself. It's going to be rough for a while. You will need a tremendous amount of patience and endurance.

Thanks again, GM.

I have given patience and endurance for the last two years. I don't know how much more I can do. I have 12 more years to deal with this idiot and then I can tell him to take a hike.

It's a catch-22. If they are not around him ever, they feel abandoned. If they are with him, they are abused. How can you win?

Feeling rather bleak.

WH

Call from H tonight. Wants to talk to the kid's. Okay. Can do. I hand the phone to D who starts jibber jabbering. Then I see her look disappointed and she asks "why?" and hands the phone to me. He decides he wants to FaceTime with them. Okay, I tell him to call me back so I can turn the ft option on. He calls and talks to D who is excited to talk to him. S is not so excited. But I think S was tired tonight. He asks to talk to me. Ugh.

Niceness. Seriously? Makes small talk about the kids. Asks if S showed me his medal and I said yes. Asks if I showed S all my medals from my years of band and choir? I said oh he's seen them. H pushes that I should really show them to H. He thought about all my medals when he saw S's. Whatever. This is S's shining moment, not mine.

So he has chilled out for the moment. Good. Hope it lasts a while. The kid's and I need a serious break.

WH

Your h confuses me. Maybe not having his family intact is starting to hit home. He seems really needy. Maybe it's the distancer (you) pursuer dance. He seems to find endless reasons to contact you. Keep distancing, not to bring him closer, but to protect yourself and the peaceful life you are building.

You think you are confused? LOL.

I am starting to think H is a bit bipolar. His mood swings are off the charts. Of course, this past weekend his stress level was off the charts. He had OW and her brats, our kids were not catering to his will, he had to travel and I refused to take the dog off his hands. H always gets a little testy when he travels. And I think to some degree that I am the only one he can take it out on? IDK. He is very needy. Just like having a third child.

I am distancing. I am giving him to God. I don't want him anymore. He is exhausting. I didn't even want to look at him while we were Facetiming last night. I just wanted to get away. Maybe he knew that. But probably not. He is too wrapped up in his own narcissism.

I just want to be done with him.

WH

So....

I met with the lawyer yesterday. I cannot tell you how tired I am of all this stuff. The lawyer tells me I should push to get three years maintenance buyout from H because that would be slightly below the minimum I would get from the judge. Also, he said not to sign off on H's bonuses because all of H's income (including bonuses, overtime and raises) should be privvy to child support, not what he gets to pick and choose. The lawyer also said the market analysis value I got from the real estate agent shows there may be equity in the house and if anything the house is at a break even point. So that means H should take on part of the marital credit card and not stick me with all that debt.

Thing is, this is another battle that I may or may not win. I am honestly tired of fighting and battling with H. I don't want to just give in to be done, but on the other hand H will never agree with my lawyer's position. Ever. And in pure H fashion H will drag everything out just to make me pay the lawyer.

Even if we make H give me a portion of his overtime and bonus money, how can we enforce it if it is not part of the garnished amount? I am set up for a defined amount of child support, not a percentage. So currently H could start working overtime and I wouldn't get a dime of it. To see if this starts happening, we would need to set up an evaluation system where his income (and mine probably) would get evaluated every 4-6 months. We would have to put that stipulation into the agreement and of course H will never, ever agree to that. So I feel stuck.

Plus H is coming back into town and while it was wonderful having the kids last night I am sad because they go with him tonight and possibly tomorrow night. He still hasn't confirmed whether he was taking my Friday night in exchange for his Wednesday. I am worried that he is going to read this latest email from my lawyer asking for paperwork and verification and get angry again and demand to keep the kids longer.

I shouldn't be held hostage by H's anger but I am so drained. And so sad right now. I keep looking at my list of bills and I want to pay them all off, but I am trying to keep some savings in case of yet another emergency. I have paid all that I need to pay and I still have money left over, yay me. But I hate having these bills. The other day I literally had a panic attack over everything. I had to call my mom and she had to calm me down.

I will have to stop going to the counselor for a while. I want to catch up on some of these bills. Now some of you may not think my bills were significant, but I don't like having debt. At all. And now that I am in control of my own finances I want to pay things off. But I am inpatient. I want to pay everything now. But if I think about it too much I will have another panic attack.

Picked up the dog this morning since H is gone an extra day. He was so excited to see me and I miss him so much. I think that is part of my panic attack. H called to see if "everything went okay" but I think it was because he wanted to make sure I did it.

Sorry guys. I'm Debbie Downer today.

WH

WH,

Quote:

Thing is, this is another battle that I may or may not win. I am honestly tired of fighting and battling with H. I don't want to just give in to be done, but on the other hand H will never agree with my lawyer's position. Ever. And in pure H fashion H will drag everything out just to make me pay the lawyer.

Is there any way you can just have a judge resolve this and stop going back and forth in a game of tug of war where everyone loses?

In Colorado, reviews are typically done every 3 years. Here is a document I found on Wisconsin Child Support Reviews. Your H isn't required to be happy about it. It's the law.

Quote:

And now that I am in control of my own finances I want to pay things off. But I am inpatient. I want to pay everything now. But if I think about it too much I will have another panic attack.

As a fellow debt-phobe, try to be kinder to yourself. Your circumstances have changed. Until you have some answers about how things are going to be post-D, why not just do what you can and tell yourself, "Good job!" rather than go into anxiety attacks. I also have an anxiety disorder. I'm not on medication anymore, but I try to do things that deal with the source of my anxiety (all fear based) and am learning how to meditate and clear my head of what is real and what is not real or imagined. You'd be surprised at how much anxiety you might be able to attribute to thoughts that will never go where you fear going. How destructive and unnecessary!

At the urging of dear Wonka, I signed up for a weekend seminar called I Can Do It! here in Denver in March. I signed up for some more workshops that help me manage my issues. Can't wait. Louise Hay has lots of stuff that might help you. I think some of them are free - especially the podcasts. You might find some of them helpful as well.

You and your kids don't deserve to have a whacked out mom. Trust me. I know this from experience.

So getting back to support. If my memory serves me correctly, I had to show up to the table with tax returns, W-2s and 1099s to show patterns of income, and so did he. It was part of an overall formula. I just hope you can get some closure on "what will be" soon. How can your L facilitate this story coming to an end?

Betsey

Thanks, Betsey.

Well, my attorney is trying to meet with H and come to an agreement which best serves everyone. Only thing is H hates my attorney. I don't think the judge will get involved unless our case goes to trial. H keeps bringing up the trial option asking me if I intend to take this to trial. There is nothing to go to trial over. We have a car payment, a mortgage, a second mortgage and a marital credit card. That's it. I don't want to go to trial over this because honestly it will drag our case out even longer. But I also think perhaps a trial is the only way I will get a fair deal. If we go to trial, I won't be divorced until next summer at best.

And yes, I do have anxiety issues. I try to keep it from the kids. I am on meds for anxiety but I have been doing okay until recently. My mom told me I have only been on my own for a month and to give myself a break. But I have high (sometimes unattainable) standards for myself. And it doesn't help to hear H's voice in my head telling me how I don't know how to manage money.

Just like with the placement situation H won't agree to cooperate unless he gets his way or he is forced to cooperate.

WH

Quote:

But I have high (sometimes unattainable) standards for myself. And it doesn't help to hear H's voice in my head telling me how I don't know how to manage money

Yep, I have high standards for myself too. But I've learned that what other people say is how they would handle things in their life.

I used to trust my ex implicitly. She was an extension of me in many ways. Guess what? Things changed and I had to learn some new avenues.

Know what? I'm glad I did. You'll be glad you did as well. For starters, learning and internalizing that other people don't have to live your life. So, they don't have to live with the consequences of your choices. You do.

Know what else? You're a smart, capable cookie. I would take your advice and view over many other people I know.

Know what else again? You should trust yourself and your capabilities.

Know what else yet again? (feels like a comedy skit in some ways; tips hat to Harold Ramis) - You should fail at some things. Because if you don't, you only stayed in your comfort zone and will die not knowing what else you could have done in your lifetime. Some things you won't like. Some things you won't be good at. Some things you won't be good at the first time, but you'll like it enough to do it again. And the list goes on...

The point is, you're the one that makes your decisions and the one that lives with the consequences.

It's always been that way.

And you're good at it. Don't hold back...

AJ

Thanks AJ. I needed the pep talk.

H just called. I figured he was gonna yell at me about my attorney's email but he told me his flight was delayed. What a shame. I said well the weather is fine, so maybe a part fell off the plane? He didn't think that was very funny. Darn this dry sense of humor.

But he said he would take the kids tomorrow night since he didn't have them last night and we would exchange after D's basketball Saturday AM. Exchange. I hate that term. Like the kids are a pair of pants that don't fit.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I am my own worst enemy (except for H). I know I can do this. It will be painful, but I need to remind myself that while I don't have H's income to supplement mine, I also don't have H's bills or spending habits to worry about. It's all me. And of course if I fail I have no one else to blame.

And I think H's voice of "you can't manage money" is him projecting his failure onto me. H always projects when he is angry. And unfortunately I let allowed him to lay that burden on me. But I won't do that anymore. I can't.

I told the kids last night that since they were with me last night they would be with their dad on Friday night. S looked panicked and said, but we get to be with you for the weekend, right? I said yes. It is just for Friday night.

I fear H's relationship with his kids is not going to be pretty.

WH

WH, I can relate to everything you wrote, except the custodial issues. I, too, have felt hostage to my situation. My xh is still hiding information, lying and projecting (big time!). I'm worn down and just want it to be over. He shouldn't get anything from me, but he will get a lot. I'm erasing "fair" from my vocabulary.

I wish I had the right words, but all I can think of are ridiculous cliches. I don't know, WH, other than we're going to have to just let a lot of stuff go and have very minimal contact with these abusive idiots.

Quote:

But he said he would take the kids tomorrow night since he didn't have them last night and we would exchange after D's basketball Saturday AM. Exchange. I hate that term. Like the kids are a pair of pants that don't fit.

That you have a lot of things to let go of, is obvious. The part that gives fits is exactly what those things should be. Objectively, it's pretty easy. Put the emotion into it and not so much.

Things happen. We deal with them as best we can with what we know at the time. We move on. That's how it works but the timelines are different for all involved

As for the exchange of the kids - from your post it looks like he's pushing things around - is that the case? In my case, I've insisted, both directions that first the kids get a choice (my kids are older now, so ymmv), and second that if you were unable to take that date, I'm more than happy to have the kids that day. And vice-versa, but that it would become too much (on the kids and on both of us) to try and keep track like that. It also cheapens the kids doesn't it?

She wasn't agreeable to that. I softly forced the issue by leading the way. Quietly and consistently. My ex and I don't talk at her insistence. So it had to be that way as far as making it so. In the early times, it felt like I was "losing" which I know is academically the wrong way to view things. But it felt that way and I make no bones about it

I'm very glad I did that.

I had to laugh. I was at a stop light in the neighborhood, heading over to get my son. My ex and her H live three blocks or so, but it was cold out so I figured I'd be nice. I looked up in the rearview mirror and saw a woman that at first, second, and third glance looked exactly like my ex, only more well-done and better kept. Beautiful woman. By the fourth time I realized it wasn't her (wrong car; ex wouldn't dare be in that old thing LOL). But I was able to share that with my son without the anger and he understood it. We were able to laugh at it. He's able to laugh at things and better understand what he saw and felt. I am no better able to help him through those feelings and things that come up.

It wasn't always that way. There was a time I felt like I was competing and I hated it. I still hate that my son has lived like a bedouin for the past several years. But I can live with that more than I can the anger and hatred and competing and fighting over the kids.

And although my ex wanted to go, moved out on the kids and me, lied, cheated, was the most selfish c*** you could meet (well...) I had to be the one to lead the way.

And I'm glad I did.

For my son's sake, and for mine. I wish I had been able to move faster through the emotions to the end for my daughter's sake. But that's how it is.

Something to keep in mind as you are gaining more and more perspective.

Peace,
AJ

P.S. pep talk? I just tell it like it is

Hello all

I have something that is bothering me. Need to get some feelers out.

So D had a play date this afternoon. While she was gone I decided to have some one on one time with S. He and I went shopping for some things for the house and for some ice cream. He asked if he could talk to me about something and I told him he could talk to me about anything.

He told me he was very upset about the marital house. He said the first time he went back into it after I left it was completely changed. He said she came in and took over. He said it doesn't feel like his home anymore. He said it really upset him. He said OW has redecorated and has even taken over what air fresheners he can have in his room because she is allergic. He said her boys are constantly in his room and wanting to play with his stuff. He feels like nothing is safe anymore. He is very unhappy. I said I was sorry for everything that he has had to go through and that I wish I could do something but it's out of my control. He needs to talk to his dad. He said he did and his dad told him to talk to OW. S did, but OW "just sat on her butt and drank soda".

S also said the other day he was on H's iPad and accidentally got into H's email. He found an email that H wrote to OW when they first met. Apparently H wrote something like "WH and I just don't have anything in common". S said mom, this made me realize that dad has been lying to me. S said when dad told me he filed for divorce he said it was because you were always in a bad mood and was always yelling whenever you got home. S said mom, I realize that is not true. You were tired when you got home but you never yelled at us.

S also told me H told him he was going to get a divorce when S when was in the third grade. But "H Decided" that he wasnt going to. I told S I had no idea about that and that H never said anything to me about it.

So I guess what is bothering me is the lies H is spreading to our kids. Especially S. And I do have to be honest that this new revelation has upset me a bit. There is nothing I can do. S even said he told his dad there was no reason he should have filed for divorce. He told his dad marriage is a commitment and a promise that is made in front of God. It is not something you just decide you don't want.

Now I guess I am set back a step or two.

WH

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't have any children with my mlc'er so i really can't comment but I'm sure that some of the vets will chime in soon. From what i've read you can't believe anything of what they say and only 50% of what they do, i'm sure you've heard this from many too. kind of hard to explain that to your children though, it is so sad that they have to go through this pain. sometimes it helps just to vent it here and know that you're not alone in this. I just wanted to respond so you didn't feel too alone. there needs to be a support group for children of MLC'ers

WH, I wish I had the right words to empower you. I wish you didn't have to share custody with your h. This is an area where the legal system truly fails children. Unfortunately, you can't control how your h chooses to raise the kids on his time. I'm sure this is incredibly hard for you. It does seem like your son is starting to see the truth and realizing that he's been lied to. He's understanding who his dad really is and that will likely change things between them. This is precisely why my boys don't have a relationship with their dad. There's nothing I can do to change it. He ruined it all on his own. I'm so sorry.

Thanks GM.

I hate the fact that I need to "co-parent" with this jerk. But unless he is a drug addict or abuser I am out of luck. But I guess he is their dad even if he is a jerk. He has no regard for what those kids think or feel. They are robots and they are supposed to go along with whatever he wants or thinks. Otherwise, like me, they will be shunned.

I don't know what is so wonderful about this OW that H needs to put his kid's last. What does he want from her that he is unwilling to see his kid's are hurting? Or is he incapable of seeing from anyone else's viewpoint?

I think I just answered my own question.

WH

WH I am sorry for what you are going through. I read the book, Runaway Husbands, that GM recommended. Many of the spouses here seem to fit the type described in the book, and sadly the behaviour of your xh is not unusual. The author recognises fully how difficult it is to co-parent with the runaway type, and how they distort reality . You might find it helpful to read the book -it is easy, and helps reduce the sense of isolation that we all feel.

Your son will need your support to get through this, and no, it isn't fair. Your xh will not take your son's part against the OW. They are seeing the world through a distorting glass. If they were able to take a long hard look at the OW they would not have done all of this in the first place! I am so sorry for what you are going through.

Is your son old enough to have a voice in court? Give it a while longer ( it's still very new) and if S feels that way, you can always have him voice his opinion to the judge.

Here they take what the kids want very seriously.

Remember two things, it is a very different life for your kids now and it will take some adjustment on their parts. The second thing is we pretty much said wait a bit and you will find yourself with the kids more and more. My bet is if you had a job in the future and were willing to give up a chunk of child support for full time custody, H would go for it.

Thanks everyone. It's always something with this jerk. Little D doesn't know what is going on. She will. I just hope H doesn't poison her against me. She already tells me that daddy says I am being mean or that I took too much stuff.

In other news on Friday at work we were supposed to have lunch with a vendor. We all drove to the restaurant and when we got there I told the hostess we were waiting for another person. My coworker told her we would need a table for six, but I said well what about the vendor? Don't we need a table for seven?

We sat down and my coworkers told me actually, WH, we lied. This Kung is for you. I said huh? They said you have really had a tough time of it and we wanted to let you know how proud of you we are. They bought my lunch and gave me a card with a $75 Target gift card. I cried. I was overwhelmed.

Yesterday at church I was sitting with some ladies and they started talking to me and asking me if I sang and begged me to join choir. I am tentatively thinking of attending practice Wednesday evening. If I can work up the nerve.

God is working on me and my sitch if I just let him. I am giving H to him as well. God can have him.

WH

Awwww, that's so nice!!!!

As for your ex - yes, he's an idiot (who tells a 3rd grader that he's thinking of divorce?) but don't worry, eventually both kids will see that you are their rock and he's a moron.

Also, eventually, he'll find excuses not to take them as often.

Meanwhile, the best thing you can do for your kids is hear them but don't encourage negative thinking. Be positive yourself and point out the positives in your new situation. Set a good example of moving forward and being successful and happy yourself.

My daughter was very close to her dad and found ways to blame me when we split (even though it was ALL him). But now, 5 years later, she knows that I've got her back and her dad is selfish and stingy.

You can defend yourself against his most egregious lies but but try not to get into it too much. (For instance - "You took too much" - you could answer (well, daddy also has all of OW's stuff, and I needed things here for you").

I'm glad your situation is improving. Friends, other people, God... they all see WH. And they know what you've been through and how you've handled it (well).

As for your son, it's totally normal for him to feel like that. I'm glad he can talk to you about it. His father, his house, and his family have all been taken from him. That's a LOT for a kid. It was explained to me once that kids rely on two things for their stability 1) their parents being together and 2) and their house. Change either of those and it's bad. Change them both, and it really takes away their foundation.

That said, they are human. Humans are resilient. With your help, he'll be alright. It'll be bumpy, but keep your eyes on the future and the goals.

What can you do? Have you considered helping him see how you're there for him? He'll be worried about your well being and whether or not you'll be there for him. He trusts you which is a great sign, WH. While he knows you won't leave him, he may not yet trust his own feelings around that. He's been through a lot so it will take some time for him to process. Have you considered helping him make your new home his home? And telling him that? It would help him get his new "foundation" in place.

His dad has shared too much and done too much already. Water under the bridge, so the question is not can you stop it (you can't) but how can you lessen the impact to the kids, and especially your son? Look for those opportunities.

I've done the same and been through that, WH. It's not easy. I have a very contentious ex as well. One who refuses to co-parent. One who blames, manipulates, and sees nothing wrong with it or how it affects the kids. 7 years later, that may be changing but I don't have a lot of hope for that to help the kids at this point. I kept the house for the sake of the kids. Believe me, I didn't want to. I still don't want the house and it's a huge burden on me. But I can see now that advice was very good and helpful to the kids.

Work toward building that foundation for him. He'll need time, but with your help he'll get there and you'll be glad you took the steps you could.

You're doing very well, WH. Keep focused on you and the kids and God and you'll be better than when this started. So will the kids.

AJ

The bottom line is, stick to the high road. You can see how much it bothers your children when your ex says negative things about you; remember that when you're tempted to say negative things about him in their presence (and remember little pitchers have big ears! Be careful about letting them overhear you talking to friends).

Thanks. I make a point of watching what I say about H in front of the kids. In fact I told S that his dad is his dad and he loves him but that his dad is not perfect and S does not always have to agree with his dad.

I am glad I have this relationship with my kids. They are very important to me. And it is also important to me that they are individuals. They are who they are.

I think S regards this as his home now. I told him if he didn't want to keep something at dad's house to bring it here and I would take care if it.

I think they are getting more and more of the opinion that this is home.

WH

WH,

Am I right from reading your previous threads that H cannot afford the house? If that's the case, then the OW painting and redecorating it is all a moot point if you plan to put the house up for sale as a part of the D proceeds. What a waste of time and energy! Now who's the idiot here??!

I am with Ellie on maintaining the high road in front of the kids. They will eventually figure out stuff in their own time and when they get older.

H for the longest time said he had no problem refinancing the house. Now that support is set he can't afford it. Or so he says. I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

According to H OW is just "helping him out" because she is such a good person. Right.

I'm just trying to be the advocate for my kid's. Being a good listener but yet staying objective is hard.

WH

Fyi-
H doesn't want to put the house up for sale. He expects me to take less support so he can afford to stay there so OW can sell her house and move in with him and be a live in babysitter. And not a good one at that.

WH

I know how upsetting it is to watch you xh put the kids dead last. It is so painful.

These days I try to be as honest with my kids as I can be and within there age grasp.

Your son is figuring out that your h is in Mlc but your s doesn't have the vocabulary. I tell my kids constantly "daddy loves you". But I also sAy my truths which is daddy is sad.

Please remember your kids are blessed to have such a great mom and to have each other.

join the choir!!!!

So this morning I am getting the kid's ready for school and someone did not put D's gym shoes back in her backpack. Now I normally would think okay, he just forgot. But he also did not back her blanket and her winter hat. Three strikes and youre out. I think he is playing games to tick me off. I called him and asked him about it but he said they should be in her backpack. I wanted to say if they were in the backpack I sure would not take the time to call you and ask. But I didn't. I was nice and reserved even though I wanted to reach through the phone and choke him. So I had to leave the house early to stop there and send S in to get the stuff.

D has a performance at school today. I'm not looking forward to going there and seeing H. He made a big hoo ha about how he is going. Maybe I can just avoid him.

I know I need a virtual beating for this but I feel like I am slipping again into the "it's all my fault scenario". I know it's not true, but for some reason I am buying into the story H fed S. I can't go down that slippery slope again. But that self doubt keeps creeping in and that's what H wants.

Snowy day again and that doesn't help my mood. But one good thing about the snow is that the cute guy next door comes over and shovels my driveway. Lol.

WH

It's not your fault. I like how you found the positive with the cute guy shoveling the driveway

WH, we all go through those cycles of wondering "what if?" Eventually, you figure out how to go back to the issue and put it to rest once and for all.

You can learn from your past, but you can't change it. You also can't make his choices for him. He did what he did and that's how it is. And I can tell you that no matter what you did or did not do, it wouldn't have mattered in the scheme of things. This isn't something you control or could have controlled. It's not about you in that sense

AJ

So not your fault. It really has very little to do with you.

The negative things he says about you are just an excuse for him to make a selfish choice.

Can you go to the performance with another mom/friend? it always helps me to know I dont have to do it by myself.

Thanks guys.

No, BK, I will go this alone. I'll be fine. It will only be about an hour or so. H might not even show up. But as much fuss as he made about it he probably will.

I know his "breakdown" has nothing to do with me. It's all about him. I guess Tuesdays make me emotional because he gets them Wednesday nights. Also the conversations with S have pushed me backwards. Reliving BD I guess. And the fact that he chooses that OW over the kids really takes the cake.

Thanks for listening to me rant guys.

WH

Well, H showed up for the performance. I got there 20 minutes early and H was already there. I walked in the school's doors and he snapped at me "I just texted you and asked if you were coming". I said I didn't bring my phone so I didn't see the text. He seemed pretty snippy so I didn't say anything.

We sat down and they had to raise up the basketball hoop in the gym so they could use the projector for the presentation. H said something like "boy, that's certainly old technology". I didn't respond. Not worth my breath. But for some reason I found it fascinating, this "old" technology and I found myself examining the hoop trying to understand the mechanism which allowed it to go up. Pulleys and gears? Hydraulics? I muttered something under my breath about "what is making that go up" and H replied "can't you see that rope there? What are you talking about". He was very snippy and I didn't pursue a conversation. We watched D give her performance and H let out a few snide comments about some of the other parents and/or teachers. I didn't say anything.

Afterward he asked me if I was taking her home and I said, it's only 2:00. She has another hour of school left. He said "oh" and walked out. That's it. Just walked out. Not a goodbye, not a see ya, not a "oh I will peek my head in on her class and wave before I leave". Just walked out.

For a few seconds I wondered what I had done that made him treat me so badly? Why does he see himself as so much better than me that he can't even walk with me to the door? Why does he treat me with such disdain? Then I shook it off.

I walked back to D's classroom and told the teacher not to send her on the bus, that I would pick her up after school. There was D, sitting in the reading chair, reading "One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish" to her class. She has been practicing this book for weeks. I felt tears well up in my eyes. She was so intent on reading it to her class and showing them the pictures, she didn't even see me. I walked out and I thought "H is really missing out". Even if he would have been there to see that sight, he still wouldn't have "gotten it". And he would have made it all about him.

H is severely, severely broken. And I didn't break him. I can't fix him. It's not about me. It is starting to sink in. H has made himself a "comfort zone" with this OW. Their relationship is not about "them" it is about "him" and what makes him "comfortable", not happy. The more I think about it, the more I realize OW is exactly like H's mother. She likes to talk, about herself mostly, and always victimizes herself. She is all about her and how to keep her own selfish needs going. She has little to no ambition and only is inspired to "do something" if she can get something out of it.

I need something better in my life. I need something healthy. And I often wonder if I will ever be healthy as long as I have to deal with this H in my life? He will never give me what he is supposed to, financially unless he is forced to. He is unable to give me (or anyone for that matter) any real emotion or love because he doesn't know how. And the sad thing is he will never know real joy. I see that every time we are together at a kids' event. His joy is fabricated. Mine is authentic.

So I will pray for H. Pray that he can be a decent enough dad to occasionally put the kids' needs and wants above his own. Pray that he can be in touch with himself enough to feel authentic love for his own kids. Pray that reality will knock him in the head before he loses everything because he is on that path.

I guess I am starting to grow up.

WH

I think that was a beautiful post WH. I agree that all of this behaviour of H's is a sad reflection of his inner turmoil and struggle. It's not a reflection of you. I have often wondered myself what I have done to make h behave rudely with me since this began ( hanging up the phone, not contacting the kids, even shutting the door on me a few times) and now I realise this is a reflection of his inability to cope and he literally needs to shut out reality. The OW is part of that too.

Your children are so lucky and blessed to have you WH. Your story of your daughter reading her story to her class brought tears to my eyes. It's their childhood that matters.

Wow, Wishing, maybe WE ARE the lucky ones. That was beautiful.

WH,
I'm glad the performance went okay. I hate to ask this, but why did you and your h sit together? It, at all possible, for you to sit elsewhere than you should do. You wouldn't have to listen to his smart mouth comments, etc.

He is treating everyone w/disrespect, not just you. It was very rude of him to make side comments about the other parents and/or teachers. If you could hear him making those comments, I'm sure others around you heard them too.

As for him hanging around to go to the other classroom and wave or say goodbye...that was a bit much to "expect" of him.
as for him walking you to do the door, well, I wouldn't have even given it a thought since you are separated. If you and your h were on better terms, maybe...but right now, no. He's a broken, rude, critical and bitter individual who thinks of himself as far better than everyone else right now. Unfortunately, not everyone sees him as Mr. Wonderful.

Yes, WH, you definitely need something better in your life. Unfortunately, you have children that both will be involved w/from now till death. Once you are divorced, it might get better if you can detach and not allow his antics to get under your skins as much. As for going to functions, I would definitely make it a point not to sit w/him and/or w/him and his ow. It's not healthy for you because you come away disgusted and disappointed or even angry w/him.

The best and only thing you can do is pray for him. He's going to need a lot of prayers to help him heal his soul.

He actually sat by me, Job. There weren't a lot of seats available. And I try to be the better person for the sake of my D. OW wasn't there. I don't really think she will make an appearance too often at these events unless she is worried that H is slipping through her fingers.

I didn't expect us to walk out like best friends at all, but I somewhat "expected" (there is that word again) him to go by D's class and wave. But I guess I should get used to this behavior. I thought he would want to give her a "thumbs up" or something. Wrong.

I wasn't angry. I just shook my head. He's the one who is missing out. And as far as having to deal with him for the rest of my life with the kids, I do believe that once the kids are older and cannot be bought and don't make him feel good about himself anymore, he will have very little to do with them. Especially once they go to college and have their own ideas and opinions and need help with college expenses. H will be long gone.

WH

Just read your post from yesterday. It was beautiful.

I am reading it on my phone and I need to read it again when I get to my computer.

It touched on so many things I can identify with.

They are barely functioning in society. These Mlc people hide behind the op to mAke them seem normal but they should be in a cave wAllowing

WH. I know I had similar thoughts with my ex for a while. It was difficult to go to co-parent events with somebody who didn't want to co-parent both verbally and in action.

You do still have some expectations, WH. You expect him to want to be more of a parent in the way you are.

That is IMPOSSIBLE for him right now.
That said, it's anybody's guess if he'll be around during the college years or before or after or at all. He might be dying for all you know.

Saying all of that, you can boil it down to "can't get rid of him, can't count on him for anything I might expect, can't expect him to love his kids in a way I would understand, can't expect him to be a nice person, or friendly or ... I can't expect him to do anything I would recognize as H. Both past and what I would want in a husband/father. "

If that's true, then you really can figure out the next steps pretty easily right? You know you'll do without, so what do you do with that information?

It is what it is, WH.

Peace,
AJ

Thanks AJ.

Been a busy day. Hectic at work. One of those days that make you pull your hair out. But don't worry. I'm not bald...yet.

Had a software user's group meeting after work today at the local technical college. Pretty interesting and learned a lot of new tips and tricks. Sat with a few friends and coworkers. Had a good time. Came home and put new hardware on my bathroom cabinets. I found them on clearance at Menards. The old handles are obscenely dated and so gross. I tried to clean them but that "gunk" was not coming off. I know I am only renting, but this place is a reflection of me. And the bathroom looks much better. It was pretty dated when I moved in, but with my added touches it looks a million times better.

So Manu projects I want to do! I get so excited thinking off all these things. But one step at a time. But I'm so excited.

So I found another great deal on Craigslist. But I need some input on how to make this work so put your thinking caps on please.

I bought a DVD/VHS player for $15. I thought that was a great deal. If I can get it to work. I have an older model tv that I had when I was single. I want to hook it up to this player so D can watch movies in her room. That being said the tv only has a coaxial hookup while the player has RCA. I know I can get a converter for a couple bucks, but do I need anything else? Should it be that easy? I am not hooking it up to satellite or anything like that. I just want it so she can watch movies. I don't need anything high resolution or fancy. Just something simple. Will this tv work? Thoughts are appreciated.

WH

A converter should be more than enough. But even better - write down the TV model number and have a quick look online for it's specs. Just to be sure it doesn't have any hidden RCA plugs. Even for that era, many of them did although it was new-ish.

It is very rare for a VHS/DVD device in north america to not have a coax connection. It happens, but it's rare.

Converters are about 6-20.00 from a quick look.

AJ

Well, I checked all over the TV and no RCA connections anywhere. Just one coax connection in the back. I found the DVD/VHS manual online and it looks like I just need a RF modulator and some cables. I found something at Target.com which has the RF modulator, the coax cable and the RCA component for $22. So I will run and get that after work and give it a whirl tonight. Keep your fingers crossed for me. I hope this works. I was talking to a coworker about it and she said it should work so I will run it up the flagpole and see if it flies. It's cheaper than buying a new TV.

Not sure if I want to get S a blu ray or ROKU? I see ROKUs have more options like even the Disney channel. Any thoughts?

WH

I was just reminded by the paralegal I have to go to court Monday. Apparently this is a scheduling conference so the judge can see what agreements we have worked out. According to the paralegal at this conference the judge can order the case to trial. Now I am freaking out a bit.

I don't want the emotional and mental stress of a trial. But H will not accept any deal except demand what he wants. I don't think the lawyer is willing to put much work into my case because I pretty much told him I can't afford to pay any more. I owe him a lot of money and I think he has put me on the back burner. H knows this and is using it to his advantage.

This would be a waste of court time to take this case to trial. It does irritate me too that now I have to worry about this all weekend. And more time off work. I wish this just was done.

WH

WH, I understand the need to be done with the legal process. I, too, wanted to avoid trial and I've basically had to buy my freedom. My xh might trot all the way to the bank, but it will never give him back the last few years he's missed with the boys. To give your h what he wants, if you can afford to do so, might sting at first, but it might be best for you and your kids in the long run. What's right and fair just doesn't happen in D court. Can you give your h the house, with the equity and a timeframe for refinancing, along with the marital debt? It would allow you to move on and start rebuilding and, from what you've posted, it seems like that might be a wash. Only you know what you are willing to settle for. I just want to share that once I got over my fear and my idea of fairness it was much easier to just agree to my xh's terms (his idea of being more than fair). I now have much more time and energy to focus on me and the boys and creating the life that I want for us. The rest is just monopoly.

Thanks GM

I am not sure. H wants to give me child support only. He does not want me to have any of his bonus money and I think his bonuses should be eligible for child support at least. He wants to pay child support based only on his base salary with no bonus or overtime figured in.

Then he wants me to take on all the marital credit card. Every penny. He offered a buyout of maintenance but now he is saying he cant give me that even.

I think this is going to have to go to trial. H has not given my attorney anything he has asked for and H is refusing to go along with anything my attorney says. I am not sure what I am going to do.

H can have the house but he can't refinance it with the current situation. He has all his eggs in one basket and now he is screwed. Unless I agree to all the above he can't do it.

I just don't know.

WH

Your h can't pick and choose what part of his income is considered for child support and alimony. Considering the situation I don't understand why the judge isn't just ordering the house to be sold, splitting the debt and giving you guideline support. There are no triable issues, unless I'm missing something. Why isn't your attorney making that argument, especially since he knows you can't afford to litigate?

Idk GM. I really don't know. The judge wants us to work it out I guess. I think H will push this to trial but as you said there are no trialable issues. H is trying to get me to agree so he can get his way I think because he knows a judge won't go along with what he wants.

I haven't heard a peep from H since Tuesday. I'm wondering what he is up to?

WH

WH,
I'm surprised that a spouse can go after the bonuses and overtime, since they are not a "sure" thing each and every paycheck. I know of several men who pay support to their spouses, as well as support for their children and it is based on what the law states and also they "regular" salary since it's the same from pay day to pay day and if the regular pay increases with a promotion, then it is revisited...but the bonuses and overtime...nope, again, it's not guaranteed funds for every check, etc.

You might want to check into this before going to court to see what your state says about them.

WH,
I've just been through the same process as GM describes.
It became a matter of buying my freedom.

Issues of fairness don't come into it, apparently.

You get to the stage of just wanting it to be over; there is only so much belligerent madness one person can take.

No amount of money can ever compensate for what they've lost.

I got through the trial process by making a conscious decision to chose compassion for my XH's obvious turmoil - and his monumental loss - over anger and blame.

It got me through. I never understood 'turn the other cheek' until now.
I was always more of an 'eye for an eye' person. But there's no stopping that train.
I was ready to get off, and start a new life.

Originally Posted By: job

WH,
I'm surprised that a spouse can go after the bonuses and overtime, since they are not a "sure" thing each and every paycheck. I know of several men who pay support to their spouses, as well as support for their children and it is based on what the law states and also they "regular" salary since it's the same from pay day to pay day and if the regular pay increases with a promotion, then it is revisited...but the bonuses and overtime...nope, again, it's not guaranteed funds for every check, etc.

You might want to check into this before going to court to see what your state says about them.

Right now H's support is based on his base salary. But he is court ordered to give me half his bonus. My lawyer and I have a theory that H will go back to working tons of over time once this is done and we need a way to recapture that at the end of the year. And I am hoping the judge will agree.

I am thinking the judge will make the division more equitable than H does.

WH

Big hugs Wishing.

So hard to know what to do but follow your gut

So had a busy day. I'm feeling better about things today. Yesterday was just a bad day I guess.

Went to see D at dance. I was wondering how H would respond to me. H was decent. We chatted. He showed me pics of D in the machine he designed at work. He even showed me a picture of the new dog food he bought for the dog. Seriously? So I don't know how things are going to go Monday. I guess we will see what the judge says.

On a higher note I managed to hook up D's tv to the DVD/VHS player. And I did it all myself. I also colored my hair a deeper sassier auburn. It hasn't been this color since I was a teenager. At divorcecare I got a lot of compliments. I have been getting a lot of stares today too. Not sure if that is good or bad.

I'm exhausted and I still need to make something for church coffee hour. What a day.

24 hours and the kid's are back.

WH

Are you starting to see the pattern, WH? I do.

I see the pattern that as you work things out in yourself, it gets longer between "not so good days" and better days. For perspective: Understandably you're still impacted by H's changes in attitude toward you, the court case, and when the kids are with you or not. But you're making a LOT of progress in gaining perspective.

FTR, there is no such thing as "fair" in a court of law. That's a personal judgment term, and since there are two sides, somebody will think it's not "fair". Generally, both sides will walk away thinking the other screwed them. Fairness is too subjective to go either direction, if you see what I mean.

There is however the law. The law is what it is, and regardless how you feel, or how your H feels, it is going to do what it is designed to do. The difference is, if the judge doesn't like you or if the lawyer doesn't like you, they look in that big complicated morass of legaleze and look for ways to favor one over the other. That's hopefully based on good faith efforts (that you can show) and the kids best interests.

Your action is to act in good faith. Your action is to not get bogged down in fair or unfair, but rather to focus on the spirit of dissolution and how to get there acting in good faith.

Always remember, his actions do not excuse you from your responsibility.

AJ

P.S. Good on ya for the Auburn hair. I'm sure that's a great look and just in time for spring-ish days ahead

Thanks AJ.

I think I am doing better too. Little by little, step by step.

I guess I am not looking for what is fair, but for what is equitable. I think the judge will look for us both to take on debt and since H's income is far greater than mine he will have to pay child support and some maintenance. I am guessing the judge will give me a settlement which is more equitable than what H is offering. I can only go off what my attorney tells me though.

H didn't take the kid's to church this morning. Not sure why not, but it's his time so I can't really say anything. Even S's girlfriend didn't know where he was.

I have started praying for H to become a better dad. I don't know if it will do any good, but God has more control over it than I do.

WH

Picked up the kids. Yay!!! S was telling me his dad had a "chat" with him and the other kids. Apparently all was not peaceful in the household yesterday. Apparently H told the kids that they won't be able to be "together" if they couldn't get along. I guess it was a 45 minute lecture. I'm sure things will change now. Right. I wonder where OW was and why she wasn't part of the conversation? Too much work I guess.

I asked S why they didn't come to church and he said he wanted to and he was ready but H didn't want to go and so decided they weren't going. Well that didn't last long did it? I told S if he wanted to go to church to tell his dad I would he happy to pick him up. I guess H and OW had S's girlfriend over for dinner last night. One big happy family. I think that H and OW cross the line when it comes to S's friends. H texts them like he is one of their "friends" and I think it's kind of creepy. H joked that he was going to text one of S's friends early in the morning and wake her up to irritate her. Really? Who else thinks that is crossing the line of what is proper?

We will see what happens tomorrow. I will keep you posted.

WH

So I had court this morning. I was so drained and tired of these proceedings I was NOT looking forward to it. It was a scheduling hearing where the judge got an update of what is going on.

The judge asked about the real estate and my attorney told the judge the house was about a wash from what it was worth to what was owed on it. H of course argued and told the judge the house is severely under water and hence it throws off the marital balance sheet and that there is a severe deficit. The judge then told H if the house is underwater and H wants to keep it, then I owe H nothing. He cannot take on the debt of the house and then expect me to either give him a payout or take fewer assets or less money just because he decides to stay in the house. The judge told H if he takes the house, then the value of the house will be listed as zero. No shortfall, no equity. H tried to argue with the judge and the judge told him "Mr. H, you have two options: either you take the house and the debt and suck it up, or else you let go of the house. Either let it go into foreclosure or sell it." That is exactly what my attorney has been trying to tell H for the last two years.

So now that takes away H's "bargaining power" that he thought he had over me. The only argument left is over the credit card division and whether or not he pays me maintenance. I think now he will have to pay me something. What that will be is yet to be determined.

So it was a fairly decent day in court. My faith is restored. Momentarily. I still think H intends to take this case to trial over the credit card and maintenance. He can't refinance the house if he has to pay me maintenance and if he has to take on the credit card, but I honestly can't see how he will get out of either one now that the house has been taken out of the equation.

I think H's house of cards is starting to collapse.

WH

WH,
The house of cards is built on a sand dune, which is now slowly eroding. Your h's power is being chipped away slowly but surely. In time, all of this will be settled and you will be able to breathe again.

Your h has a decision to make concerning the house and he's the only one that can do so. I'm glad the judge stood firm w/his decision on this. Time someone took your h on.

Stay positive and keep the faith. The man upstairs will watch over all of you.

Breathe and try to enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks, Job. It is a weight lifted off my shoulders. We are scheduled to go back for a pre-trial end of April. I am hoping we can come to an agreement. The judge made H and my lawyer agree on a date to meet to work out details. I think H will push this to trial. He wanted to know if he could subpoena the GAL. For what??? He is only about the kids and that part is done and cannot be brought up in trial. My attorney thinks H is just babbling and doesn't know what he is talking about. I believe him because everything that my attorney said would happen is happening.

I guess if H decides to let the house go into foreclosure I will deal with it then. I know the man upstairs has a plan and I am following his lead. I have options. I am not scared of H and H will do what he is gonna do. I really have nothing to lose at this point.

WH

WH,
I've seen this over and over again. Your h is grasping for straws and what happens is he will lose most, if not all of his credibility, as well as his money if he continues going down the road he's on. He's babbling and talking out both "ends" and will end up looking like the fool if he attempts to bring the GAL into the picture.

Continue to be yourself...but listen closely and watch your back for a while. I truly do not trust him and he is starting to sound desperate in his attempts not to be accountable for his actions as well as his support of his family.

Yes, Job. I will keep my guard up. As I said before, H has been very quiet. Very. I thought he was up to something, but now I kind of think he doesn't know which avenue to turn onto.

Good thing I am out of the house now and I am glad OW can deal with this idiot. I told my attorney that I am sure the tension in the house will escalate now. And my attorney said, "just remember, WH, a leopard cannot change his spots." He may be able to camouflage them temporarily, but they never go away.

WH

So that didn't take long. H just emailed me demanding I immediately reimburse him for S's soccer shoes as well as the money he paid into the kids' lunch accounts. I explained to him that I was not part of the shoe purchase and I just paid $50 into the kids' lunch account on February 20 so I was not about to reimburse him, I will pay the amount directly to the school.

I also made him aware that I spent $50 on recital fees and audition fees for D's dance as well as purchasing a ticket for him and S to attend the performance. I did this as a nice gesture but if he continues to be a jerk, I will demand reimbursement.

I have heard nothing back yet from the idiot. Obviously I need to keep my guard up for the next few months and say nothing. I suspect he is trying to build a "case" to prove I am in contempt of court by not reimbursing him. But of course, he is not reimbursing me either.

Yes, he is having another temper tantrum. I'm glad I don't have to be around him tonight.

WH

I don't know if you are doing this...but keep a spreadsheet of what you spend money on for the children, the date and for what. One more thing...a column for a check off when he reimburses you.

I'm glad you advised him of what you've spent on the children. This should keep him quiet for a bit. He'll come up w/something else and I bet it will about the dog. LOL!

You'll need to keep this spreadsheet for a long time, maybe a year or so until things are completely settled.

You're right, Job. It will keep him quiet for a bit. But not for long. And I CC'd my attorney on the response.

I'm sure H thinks he can bully me into paying him back. I do keep receipts of all my expenses for the kids. I am emailing the receipts to my lawyer as well so we can have a paper trail.

Yes, he's mad all right. And he looks like an idiot. And I am sure I haven't heard the last on the dog deal.

WH

Keep your spreadsheet and receipts. You will find by doing so that things will get easier, especially when he knows you are doing this. Yes, it's extra work, but it's one of the ways to shut him down when he comes banging at the door saying you owe him such and such for the kids.

He's going to try every avenue to get you to bend to his way of thinking and unfortunately, you've grown by leaps and bounds and yes, you are no longer under the same roof, so you have the power to not answer his texts or phone calls.

In the future, or at least until he begins to act like a civil, grown man, at events, sit in a row where there are other people and very few, if any vacant seats. I wouldn't put it passed him to try to sit w/you just to say what's on his mind. You do not need that kind of BS any longer.

Your life is now all about you and your children. He fired you as a wife, lover and companion, so you don't have to be responsible for cleaning up his messes which includes his financial messes any longer.

Thanks, Job. H did respond to my email from yesterday. He sent it after I left. He went on rambling about how I need to communicate better and we need to have a better understanding of what each other is spending blah blah blah. Thing is he knew I was paying these bills. So it's not like some big secret. I didn't even respond to that email. I just filed it away and shook my head.

This morning he emailed wanting to plan S's birthday party together. Hmmm...we will see what "together" actually entails. I told him to let me know when he was available to discuss. S already told me he doesn't want OW's kids at his party, only his friends and D. I totally get that, but I think it will be a severe bone of contention with H. But bring it on. Otherwise we can plan separate parties for S.

WH

WH,
If your son doesn't want the ow's children at his party, I think you may need to plan a separate one. You know your h is going to try to shove them down his throat and his special day will then become a miserable one.

Also, if you were to do a joint one, where you hold it? You know how your h is and he's not going to be happy w/anything you suggest.

I think the man is nuts...he's the one that needs to listen and communicate better w/you. You call him on his crap and he had to back down. I love it when they get caught in the web.

WH,

Catching up here.

I do want to mention that you might want to move quickly to remove your name from the house's deed and mortgage. You don't want H to pull you under financially and wreck your credit score further just because he thinks he can drag this out on and on.

Yep, agreed with all of the above. I've lived that, and that's exactly what works. I will add that it might help to start bowing out of "joint" planning, but you'll have to see if that works for you. My guess is that you'll end up more frustrated if you try to do "joint" things like that.

At some point, you may also want to consider pre-agreement on bills for the kids. For example, any receipt less than x number of dollars + a receipt to the other is reimbursed. No further questions. For me, that pre-agreement took the tit-for-tat off the table and clarified things. It also allowed us both to stay out of the other's hair.

Oddly, the shoe is on the other foot. He may have wanted this, but you're now the one that has to "leave" him. For your own sanity and for your kids sake. It's not that you can't co-parent, but that's not likely given who he is and how he acts. Not for a while anyway. Keep trying, but keep an eye on the bigger picture and figure out how to disentangle from him as best you can for all avenues of your life.

It takes time to develop the new normal so don't get discouraged. He will learn your boundaries over time and become less and less of a presence and impact to you and the kids.

He can't change his spots, WH. You can change and enforce your boundaries though.

AJ

Originally Posted By: job

WH,
If your son doesn't want the ow's children at his party, I think you may need to plan a separate one. You know your h is going to try to shove them down his throat and his special day will then become a miserable one.

Also, if you were to do a joint one, where you hold it? You know how your h is and he's not going to be happy w/anything you suggest.

I think the man is nuts...he's the one that needs to listen and communicate better w/you. You call him on his crap and he had to back down. I love it when they get caught in the web.

Well Job, S wants to have it at a place called "Skyzone" where they have a bunch of trampolines to jump on. He can invite 8 friends and the package offers pizza and pop.

H called me on my way home. He started out asking me what the login ans password was for our now defunct joint checking account? I told him I had no idea because it has been months since I have viewed anything with that checking account. That was weird. He told me he had to transfer some money into it. Hmmmm??? I said I thought that account was closed. He said no.

He then segwayed into S's birthday party. I asked him what his thoughts were and he reaffirmed that S wanted to go to Skyzone. He asked me how much it cost and I told him it was and he of course said he didn't know how he was gonna work it into the budget. I knew it. He's gonna try to weasel out of paying for this party. But if he doesn't pay then he has no say. No OW and no OW rugrats.

H then segwayed again into the hearing and what I thought. I told him I thought we needed to sit down and go over things and come to a settlement that we both could live with. He kept saying how he couldnt believe what the judge said about the house. I said well he is the judge and you can't argue with him. He just kept repeating that over and over. I was getting annoyed. H then started spewing about how this is such bad timing and he didn't know what to do. I finally lied and said S was calling me so I could get him off the phone.

What a whack job.

WH

WH - I don't think these people are capable of that thing called 'co-operation' or working together! Their way is the right way. He reminds me so much of my xh. Just out of interest, was your h a really nice man before all of this? My xh was a total sweetheart.

And AJ is right, we 'leave them' and this type of MLCer doesn't seem to like that. Never mind that they walked out on us, when we take the necessary steps to protect ourselves from their madness they do not like it.

In their mind (I have come to believe) we are still there as a punch bag. And you know, although much speculation about MLC leads nowhere, in this case I think they are still deeply emotionally attached to us. My xh can also do occasional nice and reasonable, then turn on a dime.

I think they truly have a personality disorder, and much of the time, when I am not worried about his next craziness, I feel so sorry for him. None of this turned out how he hoped.

They really do believe they know better than the judge! It is funny as well as sad and weird.

This is hard, but you are fine, and he is not.

Wow. Just wow on that conversation you had with him, WH.

Bad timing??? Really? Nice.

Keep in mind if you don't end the conversation with him, it will never end. In Bea's case, it may not end. I'm hoping for you it won't be that way.

AJ

Originally Posted By: beatrice

WH - I don't think these people are capable of that thing called 'co-operation' or working together! Their way is the right way. He reminds me so much of my xh. Just out of interest, was your h a really nice man before all of this? My xh was a total sweetheart.

And AJ is right, we 'leave them' and this type of MLCer doesn't seem to like that. Never mind that they walked out on us, when we take the necessary steps to protect ourselves from their madness they do not like it.

In their mind (I have come to believe) we are still there as a punch bag. And you know, although much speculation about MLC leads nowhere, in this case I think they are still deeply emotionally attached to us. My xh can also do occasional nice and reasonable, then turn on a dime.

I think they truly have a personality disorder, and much of the time, when I am not worried about his next craziness, I feel so sorry for him. None of this turned out how he hoped.

They really do believe they know better than the judge! It is funny as well as sad and weird.

This is hard, but you are fine, and he is not.

Thanks, Bea.

As far as whether H was a sweetheart, I thought he was at the time. It felt like he couldn't say no to anyone and he had to be moving all the time. I thought he was very ambitious and had to stay busy. Truth is he had to (and still has to) keep his mind occupied so the feelings "stay away". He needs constant distractions which is why he enjoys drama.

But I never imagined he would do what he did and continues to do. Most people who know him and us were shocked when we split and how. A good friend of mine who knew H when he was younger says she never thought he would be this way.

I do agree H is emotionally attached to me. My mom can't believe how much he contacts me. Especially since he didn't want to be married to me and can't say anything good about me. And I think there is something wrong with him. Dementia runs in his family. His maternal grandfather had it and his mom has it as well. I think his maternal grandmother had it too. I have researched the symptoms of early onset dementia in men because my SIL told me that their grandfather started acting really odd when he was in his 40s and 50s. Not that it makes a difference in what I do, but it helps to understand that it is not about me.

And yes, one minute H is spewing next day he is kind and wanting my opinion on something. I often wonder if he even knows what is going on half the time? And yet again, it really doesn't matter.

WH

Originally Posted By: AJM

Wow. Just wow on that conversation you had with him, WH.

Bad timing??? Really? Nice.

Keep in mind if you don't end the conversation with him, it will never end. In Bea's case, it may not end. I'm hoping for you it won't be that way.

AJ

That makes two of us, AJ. Definitely.

It helps to know that I am not the only one who thinks H is a whackadoodle.

WH