So here are some changes, "not in a bad way", since last post...
I have dimmed down a bit. No freakin' puppy here. I know she can tell when I am observing, looking for something too much. So I haven't. And it hasn't been too difficult with all the work I have going on, people calling in sick, etc. And band practice and learning the songs in between. I am wiped when I get home so no head space for watching too much. Thankfully.
However, there are a couple few things that jump out...
--She called me and has been shredding a bunch of old stuff and she found bank statements from the past 5-6 year's from before I went online only in 2012.
She said she was just floored by what she spent, saying "what was I thinking?" And that it really wasn't all me like she has told herself, in a lot of things.
She thanked me again for taking on all the responsibility and keeping everything together through "all this", how strong I was and am....
--She is cleaning and organizing, de-cluttering like crazy...I heard her going through notes and journal entries...the whir of the shredder filling the house..."omg" shred, "crazy", shred , etc from the other room. And things from then are disappearing into donation bags (I am assuming that one there, benefit of the doubt and all, lol).
--Oh, and tonight she moved off the couch and into S3's room to sleep, kind of the reverse of moving out of the MBR into S3's room, then the living room so long ago. The LR is looking like it might be open to everyone soon, again.
--I swear she is looking at me differently, something there has changed, but who knows. Maybe I am just over-tired.
--Her vocal tone and demeanor has changed, I hear a lot of the inner W again. I like talking to her on the phone again. Not as stressful, more balanced sounding.
Just interesting as heck to me, but I am still in same spot and mode. Still dimmer for now. Still on my plan.
I've seen cycles like this before, so, shields up, but open...
And as far as the things I told her I want to see, the one that is the hard boundary, THE hill to die on, is the OM/looking for "True Love" mindset thing. Done with that.
The rest are "would likes" and "wants" sooner rather than later.
Got some really helpful advice from some women on maybe how women would go about returning. I am still working through what I want to see, how this plays out for me when I can. I have time, no hurry.
T,
She is shedding the mlc skin layer by layer. She's moving along nicely and I realize it may get old after a while...but I see lots of progress here, i.e., from both of you.
T, dig deeper for patience and continue to be your authentic self. I think you've done great the entire time w/being a very patient and compassionate man. Continue as you have been because whatever you are doing is working in many ways.
Agreed. And get some sleep! You'll wear out if you aren't taking care of yourself.
AJ
You're doing so well. Keep taking care of you, T! Wishing you only the best.
T,
Continue being the quiet, steady Stud Muffin that you are!
Hello Ts2.
Just checking in and am happy to see that the currents are positive - for the moment. (And aren't moments all we really have anyway?)
I admire your optimism and your strength.
Good on you Ts2
Thank you all.
A quick update for those who are curious to see how things look after the "MLC'er, I'm just about done" speech, and for journalling purposes.
My life is good, just about all things going well, still wish I had a 48 hour day or something, but I just keep bulldozing through the needful. It's what I do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W has started initiating a couple/few small things like texting "sending u a hug", and she is on a cleaning, sorting and organizing de-cluttering campaign still.
Funny story (to me at least), this weekend, taking W her lunch that she forgot. So she notices that I notice there is no ring on her finger, but on a different one. I go and shop a few minutes, see if any treasure cookware, camping gear or tools.
She bee-lines it to me to explain that the ring she chose was too big for that finger, etc. Wanted to make sure I didn't think "anything"...she should have used tape to keep it on, etc...
She has worn the ring since shortly after BD#3, basically since May 1 last year...sometimes she will wear a different ring, but on that finger, depending on mood and outfit.
I did think, for about 3 minutes, that if it was so important to "check-in" with me, that she paused training a new person to do so, then maybe just get it over with and recommit and we can get on with life already... 3 minutes of antsy, then back to all systems nominal to profile.
Ms Frugal wouldn't have me drive across town when she could go to a store 2 blocks away. Testing maybe...figuring out if she broke the parts of me she actually liked, lol!
When she thanked me for it again this evening, I just said, "That's what I do" and walked away back to my business.
It's all just "interesting" now, and I think back 2 years ago how I would have hung on something like that ^^^ looking for signs of reconciliation. Now it is just a possibility in the realm of possibilities, some good, some not so good, most neutral.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was thinking this weekend while prepping food, how I felt way back at BD. I couldn't imagine loving another woman, that it would ever feel "right". Or be as intense or as satisfying, etc.
I know that is no longer true. Once I figured out "that" I actually loved myself, and "how to", I have found that my capacity to love is expanded exponentially.
I can love and be happy with someone else, because I love, and am happy with myself, now.
And if we do manage to start a new R, we are different, "new", people now...
Thank you W's MLC.
I wouldn't be the man I am without it.
And I kinda like that guy, now.
Thank you W's MLC.
I wouldn't be the man I am without it.
And I kinda like that guy, now
And this ^^^^^ is the gift we have recieved.
T2,
I'm glad you like the guy you are now. We don't realize it, but when the MLC hits, we, too, have lessons to learn along the way and you've learned them very well.
Keep up the good work!
Amen brother. Although I wonder sometimes if I would still be me without the events. Kind of a sticky wicket...
Hi T2!!
Just wanted to offer my support.
~~~~~~~~~
I am very impressed that you say you aren't "looking" for reconciliation signs. Thats awesome. And how you label it as "interesting" and not searching for more. I guess that comes with Time!.
I think its really nice how she wanted to ensure your comfort level by explaining the ring situation.
As for interest in another relationship... I agree, I cannot imagine the intimacy or ever be as intense. I wonder at what point, that changes. I do feel that its possible that the grass could be much greener for me.... but, have concerns that I would never reach the level that we had, with someone else. Which is why I feel I try soooo much harder to DB and my goal is still to R with h. I am very curious how this change happened for you.
Its just awesome that you now see this MLC time as a "gift", as you are now the man you want to be. I do see this happening for me too (as a woman), becoming a WAY better person, but... I am still a work in progress.
Nice to hear you have survived and are thriving.
Can't wait to hear your next chapter. You are inspiring.
Thanks, Magic
As for interest in another relationship... I agree, I cannot imagine the intimacy or ever be as intense. I wonder at what point, that changes. I do feel that its possible that the grass could be much greener for me.... but, have concerns that I would never reach the level that we had, with someone else. Which is why I feel I try soooo much harder to DB and my goal is still to R with h. I am very curious how this change happened for you.
Can I suggest something? Take another look at that and ask yourself what was different about YOU when before. I suggest that the only thing really different is that your perspective has changed. Your understanding of things has changed.
The only thing that will stand in the way of you having a better relationship in the future, with even more intensity and even more intimacy with either a new R with your current spouse or a new R with somebody else, is.... YOU.
See what I mean?
AJ
AJ is right on magic, I am different now, more my true self.
And have learned to accept people for who they are, where they are, at the moment I am interacting with them. Not mind-reading. I am am more comfortable being open. More comfortable NOT having an agenda, of controlling things. Directing things.
Am I perfect at it? Nope. But I am aware. Knee jerk habitual reactions minimized.
Perspective and understanding changed.
T2,
And...you've learned to dig for a lot of patience! LOL!
ok... I am too becoming those things. I like my new perspective (it takes care of ME!! new 180). I am not mind-reading anymore, I ask questions and HEAR the answers (even if I don't like them). Not controlling the outcome and being careful not to manipulate too. I too am a work in progress. Still making errors, but am able to "catch" them before or.. at least realize 'after'.
However...
both my h and I are "stuck" believing that the level of our intimacy is special & rare. Our mediator put this in our head recently & h is even reiterating how he fears he would NEVER be able to be like that with someone else. He says that its likely that 50% of marriages have what we have.
So... i wonder, is it really true? possible? or just different.
A quick update, mostly about me. I want to hopefully show the people new to this journey (or stuck) that life will get better, if you do the needful for yourself, even while still stuck in limbo-land.
Detach.
Stop trying to control the outcome.
Stop looking for angles, quick fixes.
Work on YOU, find YOU, it really is a gift of time in a crappy package.
Rebuild YOU and YOUR life the way YOU want it to be. If they come out of the fog, they can catch up to YOU.
^^^ is all tough, tough stuff, took me a long time to get and master these things. Everyone gets where they need to be in their own time.
On to the update:
I went out with the boys in the band Saturday night. I have not been out in years now. There is such a natural fit...we are all successful in our careers, a bit nerdy, and we all have a naturally congruent sense of humor. Practices are filled with humor and laughter, and so was last night...just cracking up giggling (in manly ways). We went to this awesome Basque bar, where they are beer lovers so got to try a bunch of new craft and microbrews.
Ate some amazing lamb snacks and fended off cougars....man I am glad I chose to not go out after BD, that would have been dangerous. I'm in such a great place now that the danger doesn't exist...just liking the attention, yet bemused by it. And I swear I can tell the damaged ones, the mlc ones and the desperate ones...the eyes say so much when you have learned to look and read.
We then went to this 80's bar themed after the old movie "Hackers"...all the old video arcade games...originals, not remakes, real pinball machines, some Atari and Commadore 64 computers, and yet more awesome beers...and they all took real quarters!
Learned that the guitar players W went MLC, they are divorced and she is in the resentful, bitter, "this didnt turn out to be as magical as I thought" mode..so we had some great convo there. He eyes lit up with understanding when I used the "alien thing inhabiting my W" and "the switch flip" metaphors earlier at band practice. She is just nuts, he showed me her texts to him, her fb page...just wow. He has had to now legally restrict her to communication via one email address and only about the kids and the kids schedules. So many broken people. But he is good, he did the self-work and has moved forward strongly. He joked that as he gets closer to success, the more obstacles are put in his way (W spew/actions)...so he knows he is doing the right things.
He also did not want too may details of of my sitch, in case things worked out, because he didn't want any preconceived attitudes about W.
Anyway, I just love my freakin' life...even while still in limbo-land.
PMA >= "11"
Detach.
Stop trying to control the outcome.
Stop looking for angles, quick fixes.
Work on YOU, find YOU, it really is a gift of time in a crappy package.
Rebuild YOU and YOUR life the way YOU want it to be. If they come out of the fog, they can catch up to YOU.
^^^ is all tough, tough stuff, took me a long time to get and master these things. Everyone gets where they need to be in their own time.
this is great stuff here - I read similar things every day but it's always good to be reminded so thank you for posting it!!
Glad you went out and had such a good time, that 80's place sounds fantastic, wish they had that around here!! Keep up the good work.
I shouldnt have said "master", because I still on occasion slip a little, but not often and not for long.
And I swear I can tell the damaged ones, the mlc ones and the desperate ones...the eyes say so much when you have learned to look and read.
A friend once described them as the "hard eyed" women. But it is interesting to look in the eyes of younger people and not see some of that (like, a 4 year old for example). Or to look into the eyes of somebody who has been through the smelting process and see the difference
Glad you're doing well and in a great place. And that you come back to offer some help to others!
We'll need to see that band web page before long.... Just sayin!
AJ
P.S. did your guitar player marry my W? It sure sounds like the same person
P.S. did your guitar player marry my W? It sure sounds like the same person
You know AJ, that was my immediate thought...lol!
I'll be back more in the future, just so many triggers here for where I am at right now...once I get more of this road behind me I'll be better at not being triggered.
T,
My other crush is back! I am now complete with you and FY back here posting updates. One very HAPPY Wonka!
...all the old video arcade games Mine is easily hands down Galaxy and Centipede! Those two are my favs.
...and fended off cougarsNo doe-eyed does??!
Hope your triggers will fade away into the background soon. Take care, my friend!
Love how great you sound, T. Totally understand the triggers. I know you know they wont be there forever.
There are plenty of people who are clear eyed and positive pointed, who have done the work and know who they are. Their eyes, well, just shine.
Anyway, I just love my freakin' life...even while still in limbo-land
"love my freakin life".....
Best place to be brother! Stay there as long as you can, put up a tent, strap yourself downs and do leave this lovin my life place for anything. The longer you stay there....the quicker the limbo land will fix itself.
Peace,
Eric
T,
Life will ebb and flow. Once you have the taste of loving your life, you tend to get back to it more quickly even when you go off the tracks. The path back is easier and therefore the stays in mild depression, malaise, anxiety tend to be less.
That is what you call growing. Growing into your own skin and being content no matter what situation you are in.
The journey is the gift, not the destination. I have this grand hope that more people will get the understanding of what living really all about.
Love to read threads like this.
Mirage
Thank you everyone
Quick update as I have lots to think about and boundaries/expectations to work out:
Looks like we are going to try a 2 month separation. Her friend has a spare room at her apt available through May. Lots of talking yesterday, I basically opened up fully to where I was at, no anger, just full info and vulnerability. That this is not healthy for me, or the kids. That I "felt" like she is stringing me along. That I matter, my feelings matter, my life matters. That I do not need to be dealing with a D later this year because of work/career. Etc, etc. She also opened up a lot. She wants to take a break from the household/parent part of life to figure her crap out, see what it would "feel" like being D a little. The rent is not bad, but not an expense we need either.
I have already set some hard boundaries where I will file if broached:
-If at the end of the 2 months, she still doesn't know.
-If she continues staying there, setting up a 6-12 month lease.
-If she violates the visitation of seeing the boys on her days off and when I am at band practice. The house is NOT available to her, like her place would not be available to me.
-ANY dating, romantic/sexual involvement with an OM.
-ANY unusual/outrageous spending out of the joint account.
-I am working on if any other critical boundaries I require...
And I am working on what I require if she chooses to recommit, again, with failure to meet those expectations will result in me filing.
And either of us can end it at anytime, of course. I will not fight it and start the filing immediately.
I will be putting together a packet with these boundaries and expectations to give her so she knows exactly where I am, what I want.
This is the one thing not tried. Though it may frustrate some of my friends, I have to know that I did try everything. I have to be clear on that for me, and any future R's.
Plus I will finally get a break from the mlc energy, and not seeing her (and her being "unavailable") everyday may help me clarify where I am, if I even want this anymore either.
Limbo ends before the solstice. One way or another.
One LAST cycle...9-10 weeks...I can do that, for the kids, me. Not doing another one...all or nothing I told her.
T2,
There is no harm in trying something different, but also prepare yourself if she chooses to walk away from you and the boys forever. I'm sorry she's not woken up enough to realize what she's got, but sometimes "tough love" works best when they've sat on the fence as long as she has w/o some type of commitment.
I pray that your situation will work out for the best and that you and your family will be reunited soon.
Take care of yourself. Keep the focus on you and your children and as always, dig deeper for patience.
Thank you job, I am prepared, and okay if that is the path she chooses. The 2 month separation was her idea, not mine. By trying it I will KNOW that I tried everything, so that guy in the mirror is satisfied.
Those boundaries are to protect me and the kids, and so she has full info and doesn't make any assumptions, etc.
I know you are prepared either way T2, and so do the rest of your friends. I can't imagine this last chance separation frustrating any of us, but even if it did, who cares? It's your life/marriage/choice.
I also know you have put plenty of thought into this. And effort. I honestly don't see you having regrets that you didn't try everything... which is what I also want to be able to say.
I like your plan to write it all up in a packet. The "Last Chance for a Great Marriage With Me" packet.
I'm hoping the time away helps your W realize what she is about to lose. Bust On, my friend!
TS2
"if at the end of 2 months she does not know"
Part of me understands the reason why you would have a timeline; however, I am not sure if your intent it to "make it very clear to her" what the boundaries are, that you want to set a hard date. My point, is that maybe this boundary can be a bit more open - yet tied to when YOU have had enough. What is she was a week away from coming home? Just something to consider.
In terms of joint accounts....why not just remove her access. If she needs access to funds then maybe she should open her own account. At the end of the day, that is what she will need to do if you separate.
Hey T,
Just saw your update. I know things have been brewing for awhile at the T household...
At the end of the day, we have to answer to ourselves and our own conscience. I fully believe it is up to each one of us to determine when we've had enough or if we've done everything we could do.
I'm glad you will get a break from the limbo madness. It can be draining.
I think DBers R Us has a 2 for 1 sale on patience shovels - how many shall we pick up? LOL!
You can do this T.
I understand your point eric, but T's W has already had several 'soft' timelines, and has shown an inability to decide. Without a specified timeline this could go on forever. I like his latest plan.
T, I didn't see anything about counseling in the packet. I know you talked about it being one of your requirements before. Is it still?
FY- I do have a couple friends that are frustrated with me, they understand, but just think she has been given plenty of time and such. The counseling and what I need to see for R is definitely there, just a work in progress, it will be included. And yes, I mused a long time ago that due to W's historical behavior regarding decisions (avoiding, waiting until absolutely has to be decided at the last minute) that I would very likely have to create the "last minute".
Eric, I totally see your point...I am looking at the fact that she would have 30 days to respond, and then after that (unless she doesn't respond), there is a waiting period before it is finalized...so she has up to ~2 months to change her mind after I file. And, at the end of the day, it's just a piece of paper, right? As far as the joint account, it is less risky to keep that, because her pay does contribute to the household bills and expenses, than to depend on her giving me money for the bills.
TVS- Yes, the break will be nice, and is actually interesting to me to see how I will feel being a real single Dad for a while, and without her influence in the house, etc. So it will be interesting for everyone.
Limbo ends before the solstice. One way or another.
Hey Deuce....
No expectations, other than that your life will be full and exciting, no matter what....
Yes ?
This isn't a trick, or a tactic...
This is life.....
hey ya Mach,
No trick.
No tactic.
I know those do not work, and usually backfire.
I'm at the "enough" Rubicon and moving forward.
I did consult with my L again on Friday, making sure my info was up to date on costs, process, etc. I downloaded all the forms in case we can do it DIY.
And she said she knows it can't go on like this forever for any of us.
T,
I can see that you've agonized over this for some time (well...a loong time) and don't take this lightly at all.
You are #1 and who can look out for #1 but you, right?
We can pray for you two and hope that W can find a way out of her own mess...preferably toward you.
T, sometimes we need to take our life by the horns and do the needful for ourselves, ya know? You are right, you matter.
You know how I feel about you, who you are, how you live your life.
I pray for a resolution in those things you need it in, in whatever way you hope.
I am always behind you, always here for you. Always.
I suspect you have a preference in this, right T? I doubt you have any guilt about it...
As for your friends... they don't have to live your life, so it's nice that they care, but it's their feelings and not what they have to live with. Just showing they care is all.
I will be honest with you here: if I had it to do over, I would do it the same way. My ex did similar and left. Lied too, but that's neither here nor there. I would still do it to make sure I did all that I could do. And that paid off during the dark(ish) times when they came up. I can honestly look in the mirror and like the person looking back at me. I can honestly say that I felt a little guilty at first, when she left. I was happy she was gone. More to the point, I missed her, but not the monster.
Raft of emotions come along, so be ready for that. I think you are, but just in case it surprises you, don't let it.
AJ
T2
Yes, I agree the filing is just a piece of paper. At the end of the day as long as you can honestly say you did all you could do, that is all that matters.
It has been my personal experience that what we feel or think are negatives turn out to be positives.
The D, as I know you know does not mean this is over. You and only you say when it is truly over.
I have no doubt that whatever you do...will be the best for you.
Peace,
Eric
I have no doubt that whatever you do...will be the best for you.
I second what Eric said.
T,
I have been checking in on you since forever, I guess it has been awhile BC I am shocked at your current status. I am here for you. I support your decision. I do caution the diy divorce. I have looked back several times and said thank god I had a good lawyer. Get it all covered up front. They know things that will come up that you don't even think about. All I'm saying is I think it was money WELL spent! And I'm a diy guy that barely had the cash at the time.
Good luck.
Thank you everyone...
Hi PW! Long time man! I do agree with you, I think I'll use a L after we go through the forms and such together first, see if we can agree to enough to minimize the costs.
So last night was supposed to be move out night, she put it off, she is spinning with second thoughts per her convo with me (and not just because of the kids, I was included a wee bit, lol). So tomorrow night is the next target.
I even found her some perfect boxes and stuff...
I told her she HAS to do this, take the 2 month break from house/family duties now that she is clear enough to see things as they are and would be.
I said that if she didnt take this break, it would come back later even worse, and/or she would always "wonder" and that she doesnt let go of stuff like that very well.
She said she knows...She did bring up that this is a good time because of her usual "peak" of her SAD in April and May, I had forgotten about that.
As the vets said, I have been experienced feelings and thoughts I thought long dealt with, such as rejection, the BD "gut punch", disbelief that this is really happening, etc.
Then on the other hand, some happiness, some relief, some starting to look forward to it. <--- This surprised me.
I have lots of stuff planned to do with the boys, some changes in a lot of things in the daily house life...structure is coming. Chaos receding...
New rituals, turn this in to a big male-bonding spring!
Fires, camping, projects...
T2,
I have to agree w/you. She needs to do this in order to see what life will be like or she will always wonder what might have been. I'm not surprised that she is waffling. She's unsure of what this may be like and yes, the possibility of separating/divorcing.
I think you have been handling the situation very well. Sounds like you've got a lot of plans activities that you want to implement. I will say this, if she does move out for a couple of months, you are going to notice a heavy weight has been lifted off your shoulders in the way of stress and egg shell walking. Yes, that's right...even though you've been doing wonderfully, there has been a certain amount of stress on you. Enjoy your new found freedom and definitely take some time for yourself. You've earned it.
Enjoy your weekend.
Then on the other hand, some happiness, some relief, some starting to look forward to it. <--- This surprised me.
I'm not surprised in the least, T2. I think it's normal considering what you've been through.
I will say that it won't seem "real" to you until she either comes back or goes away completely and you can repaint/redecorate any way you want.
I suggest you consider redecorating some anyway. It can be changed if she decides to come back. And you decide to let her.
Peace!
AJ
Not at all surprised at the feeling of relief, T. Its like you were holding your breath some and now you can let it out a bit.
When she leaves, let it be for a little while. No need to start changing things immediately, right?
I know you will handle it all in your wonderful T way, and that all you boys will be fine.
Always thinking of you, my friend.
Well, she and I together had the meeting. She was good about being honest and putting this on her and her issues, lostness, being burnt out, etc. 2 out of three boys were okay, they thought D at first, but seemed a bit relieved that it was a break for Mom and trial separation.
The youngest I am a bit worried about, but us guys are a team now. I was strong, assured, CHD...I will be watching for any delayed reactions.
Sunday morning was the move out day.
I am glad that part is over. Lol!
And I feel completely okay. At peace.
I made this absolutely awesome vegetarian dinner Saturday night. Red quinoa, baked yellow potatoe fries, braised onions, carrots and cabbage with turmeric and juniper berries off our tree, and beets. The boys loved it, and I put together a package for her first night at her new place so she wouldn't have to cook after work. She was happy, yet teary. I'm gonna make sure she and her roommate know what she is leaving.
If I'm going down, it's with CHD. And compassion.
Planned up a killer week of cooking, interviewed the boys getting their input for what they want to eat....this is going to be fun as h3ll!
Sunday morning when she left she was crying, even initiated a long hug with me. Her voice wavered saying she'd be by Tuesday to see the boys.
The boys and their friend and I had a pizza par-tay, gaming consoles glowing...
My oldest commented on how calm and peaceful the house was...hmmm. And it was.
I have a living room again after 2+ years...I forgot the what the view was like. I stayed in their most of the day and evening when I wasn't doing the needful (cleaning, etc).
I'll be using the time to dig deeper into what I want and need, it may be more productive not seeing her everyday.
New phase in the journey commenced...
T2,
Very well done. Everything will be okay once the dust settles and your children have already sensed the change in the atmosphere. There really was more tension in the air than you thought. Now, the healing will begin.
Keep up the good work! I'm very proud of the way that you have and continue to handle your situation.
Thank you!
And you know how we say here the kids watch you closely?
Well, they sure do!! It was palpable, checking in on me...lol! Love my boys!
It occurs to me that your first meal was a gas-producing dish to be shared among the boys. Nice...boys will be boys...
Peace,
AJ
Thanks for the great thread...so many excellent points of view. I am still very early in this, but this site and this thread sure help. Thanks again!
Great job T2. I believe W will be missing you and your meals. I don't know who wouldn't!
When you say you have a living room again, is it because W stayed in there and you avoided it?
Tsquared
Enjoy the peace!
I suspect that you will go through some level of emotions in the coming weeks. They are normal. Feel them. Understand them. DO NOT let them disrupt YOUR peace.
God Bless,
Eric
Sometimes I imagine that a piece of my soul was shattered when I received different bombs (the initial BD, the OW reality, the moving out, etc...). And, as I put the pieces back together, or God does, I relive those moments a little to heal.
T, I think you're healing and I'm so excited for this next phase of your journey. I believe you will find real joy for you and the boys now that some separation has taken place. I feel badly for your W. She truly doesn't know what she's giving up.
Hi T2... just wanted to say you inspire me!!!
Much hugs & THANKS!!!
Magic!!
T,
Also you'll discover what some of your non-negotiables will be during this time apart. Sometimes a different kind of perspective will lead you to some truths that you may not have not seen quite clearly while living with W.
Hey...can I share some of your delicious veggie dish??!
Thank you all...
One week into single Dad-ness, all is well. Super cleaned, tossed and organized the pantry, fixed the dryer, managed to get birthday party presents and chauffeuring done, on time.
Bought myself some new 500 thread count Egyptian cotton sheets today ... Ahhh.
Bye bye nasty thin gross thrift store sheets that were king size and not queen so always coming untucked and shtuff ... Buh bye!
Lots of kids hanging out, spending the night, hanging out talking to me in the calm serene LR...
Family dinners have gradually become "the norm"... so far so good with the kiddos, I am checking in with them and keeping an eye out for any delayed reactions.
I am only contacting her for kid or house business, and then it was just one issue, though until this weekend she called me everyday, starting with business then asking me how I was doing, etc. She calls the kids every couple of days.
So far her spending is entirely reasonable (knocks on the fake wood of my desk).
Have had some interesting emotional fluxes, but not bad ones at all. But then again, I AM busy as all get out.
Doing well, doing the needful and going easy on myself when I need to, like Sunday I was just exhausted. So I just chilled and puttered.
All the work on detachment, the work on myself, becoming the man I want to be, is paying off now, when the rubber meets the road.
T,
That sounds really positive for you and your family. How do the kids act and feel with W out of the house? Do they miss her? Do they stay in touch with her?
The kids act just fine, in fact the 2 younger ones fight less.... The "vibe" in the house is good and calmer. They miss her but haven't said much. And she does call them every couple of days...I havent seen them initiate any contact, but I'm at work all day.
I'm glad things are going well for you and your sons. Sometimes you don't notice how much tension was in the home until the mlcing spouse is out on their own.
Sounds like you and the boys are now making the home a more comfortable and enjoyable place to be, i.e., you are decorating it the way that you want and are comfortable w/it. I like that!
Keep up the good work.
T, Great to hear that things are going well one week in. I haven't been of the mind to post much about my sitch, but have continued to follow yours after all the help and inspiration you provided to me. It seems to me that the "sanity after the storm" in your house is a sign that you really had done everything in your power to move forward with your W and that you really were out of options (it seems to me from observation that many people think they are at that point, but you REALLY were).
Good for you with the obvious bonds you are building with your kids. Tough to go through this without tearing down W, which really hurts the kids, and you haven't done that. This will really pay off for you and especially for your kids, whatever direction this thing takes for you. Again, good for you.
CB
Things are going awesomely...busy, some stressors and such, but the clarity that has come since she moved out is amazing.
Being
very mindful of re-writing history, some realizations have emerged. One of them being, given her emotional and mental health past, IF she wants to come home, will she be able or even willing to do the work on herself?
And would I be able to TRUST it? I think maybe that TRUST issue is at the heart of a lot of WAS turning into WAS...that the spouse can/is TRULY changing and doing the work. They don't trust that they can/are, that the spouse and things will revert back.
Well, at least those are my thoughts the little time I spend thinking about her or the sitch. I trust myself, but question now if I want to devote anymore time to this, now that I am living life pretty much with out her, and rather liking it, the peace, the sanity, I am amazed at how hard she makes life for herself.
All the stress and negativity flowed right out the door after her. Even the boys have said things about it. And, even she has..."I moved out to get away from stress and now my work and roommate are creating stress...or am I by how I think?"
So it looks like the "things I need to see" from her are growing.
And CB, I haven't torn her down at all, and will not, I am at a place where I just feel sad for her...I have processed a bit of residual anger, and hurt, but that is MY stuff to own and deal with.
So, life continues to be great...the boys are ALL stepping up...they amaze me, so proud of them...
Just stopped by for a second and caught this. I'm happy for you, T. You're awesome!
I'm glad you're being careful to not rewrite history. Easy thing to do. Many will to help with the pain. Of course, you have the benefit of seeing how well that works from a different vantage point
Can I make a suggestion? If. If she decides to move back - give it a lot of thought. And make sure that you see the changes in her before you let her. She has a way to go yet to really internalize the things she is learning. I can tell you that the second leaving is harder than the first. And besides, if she does want to come back to the relationship (not just the way things were or the house), dating your W can be a lot of fun. It can be a great way to start a new R with her. But that's harder if she is under the same roof, with the same pressures of family etc that she didn't deal with very well the first time around.
Glad the boys are doing well! And that you are doing well.
Take care,
AJ
Thank you AJ...and trust me...TONS of thought will go into any decision, lol!! I have noticed the difference on her days when she comes to the house visit the kids...the negative/chaotic energy is so palpable...
And besides, if she does want to come back to the relationship (not just the way things were or the house),
^^^ is a REQUIREMENT... lol
Sounds good Mr T, what an awesome DB role model you have been!
I know you still keep your clipboard nearby. What, if anything, are your notes telling you regarding W's progress? Inquisitive DB minds want to know!
Sounds good Mr T, what an awesome DB role model you have been!
Ditto.
I think you are pretty amazing T. What's cool about these boards, at least for me, is how we can take different things and learn from each other.
I've taken some specifics things from your situation.
Mainly, I've admired your calm patience. This is a skill I lack. You have shown such restraint and focus. T, you seem like someone who gets the job done, whatever it is, without complaint. You look at what's directly in front of you instead of what
could be ahead. I get all caught up in the What Ifs and so forth. I also admire your maturity. You don't seem to resort to petty getbacks.
Seems like you're really good at NOT taking all of this personally.
I know a lot of work went into developing all the above DB skills. Just wanted you to know how I respect that and it doesn't go unnoticed.
Again, your wife truly doesn't see the treasure she is pushing away. You are most definitely someone only a fool would leave.
And, maybe that's the ultimate lesson for us all. If I stop making it personal and take the higher road, that's when it all becomes painfully obvious how flawed and broken these MLC-ers are.
Hi T^2!
I'm catching up on some of my old friends threads. Sounds like you are doing well. I was thinking about you because something amazing happened here.
My boys moved to the mainland one last July one last October. So I made two trips out to visit them and took each of them a cat. Which left me with only one cat, who basically lived outside and acted like she hated us for the past 6 years. She moved back into the house about a month ago. She sleeps on top of me, and is back to being as loveable and sweet as she used to be. 6 years ago!
Anyway people aren't cats. But I thought you would enjoy hearing I got my cat back!
Aloha! keep taking good care of yourself!
That's awesome about your cat Wendy!!! So happy for you.
Thank you Heather, long road from 2 years ago, eh? And I am still admonished to "Not get ahead of myself" lol
FY, as job predicted, she's learning a lot about how the real world works. She has expressed new found understanding for things like "I understand now why you were tired and just wanted to relax after work all these years"
She has also my some BIG self-discoveries, she has shared many of them with me, so she is doing work.
Where this leads? Don't know, and I am not going to speculate, June will come soon enough, and I am just too busy living MY life to get ahead of myself. I seriously just want to enjoy this time and not let futurizing detract from it.
She has also my some BIG self-discoveries
Should be: She has also MADE some BIG self-discoveries...
I'm glad to read that you are enjoying life and living it to the fullest. You are so right...live in the present and allow the future to take care of itself.
I'm glad that your w is sharing some things that she's learning about herself and the big old world. She's going to discover more and more as she continues on her path.
I'm happy to see that you and the boys are doing well and that's what is important right now.
Thank you job...
T,
Ya Da-Man!
Seriously, you've done an outstanding job in DBing everyone...especially your MLCer. It takes a while for us to figure out stuff and figure out that PEOPLE outside of us are not responsible for our own unhappiness. Hey, we're slow learners!
She has also my some BIG self-discoveries, she has shared many of them with me, so she is doing work.
Where this leads? Don't know, and I am not going to speculate, June will come soon enough, and I am just too busy living MY life to get ahead of myself. I seriously just want to enjoy this time and not let futurizing detract from it.
I'm so glad to hear W is making discoveries and doing the work.
Yes, just enjoy this new period in your life. You are truly a DB model, T. I hope to be like you when I grow up!
Well, today is my wedding anniversary. The last two I made homemade nice safe cards. Not this year.
It's on her to acknowledge it, or not.
She wanted space and such.
I am listening to her.
Happy Anniversary T2!
You are doing the right thing, i.e., giving her plenty of space and time.
Hang in there!
Thank you, job. I have band practice tonight so my evening will be fun and good.
A smart thing to do, T!
At least we have this 7-month anniversary of our mutual-crush fest to celebrate!
Happy Anniversary T! I have no doubt there are plenty of ladies who would love to celebrate with you!
I hope you had a nice anniversary, whether she made any effort or not. ;-)
The boys in the band took me out for my anniversary ... A good night with an excellent practice. We are really tightening up and getting that "band" feeling, not just some people playing instruments at each other (hard to describe).
Good tunes at the bar, good beer, making contacts for future gigs.
Life is good.
T, glad to hear you had a good night, the band thing sounds very cool. Wish I had one bone of musical talent...
Out of curiosity, did your W acknowledge the day?
CB
She did not.
I didnt expect her too, at all. She had issues with holidays/special days before MLC, so....
Just living my life is the only rational thing to do atm.
Well, change is afoot.
W texted me:
"how about if we plan to sit down and talk after u get back from your trip with S1"
Naturally, my knee jerk reaction thoughts were that she doesn't want back in, otherwise she could tell me before..right? She has reclaimed her compassion and nice, soooo, she doesn't want to spoil the trip...
Talking with friends, though, could be many things.
-Wants in but needs more time
-Wants in but doesn't want me to NOT focus on the trip
-If she wants out, I may not let her stay with the other 2 boys while we are away, thus she couldn't get the rest of her stuff out without me around.
-"Just because" that's the way she needs to do this, for whatever reason.
So I'm stilling my mind...I so want Limbo to be over...
Yesterday on her day at the house she did dishes, cleaned a bathroom, including the tub and toilet, vacuumed. I don't know what to think (shut up Mach,lol...
)
A week and a half to go.
I will be getting some good head clearing back country time in...WAY over-due...
Either way, I will be fine and am doing well...really, really well.
And so it goes....
T2,
You've come a long way and know that over thinking will create stinking thinking. Let it go and enjoy your time w/your son. Whatever will be, will be...no point in trying to figure out which scenario will be presented to you.
Take care and stay positive!
T2,
You've come a long way and know that over thinking will create stinking thinking. Let it go and enjoy your time w/your son. Whatever will be, will be...no point in trying to figure out which scenario will be presented to you.
Take care and stay positive!
Read this every time you have a "neuron mis-fire".....
: )
Hey T!
Wow. You're an amazing man, you know that right? Im just about speechless how you've managed to maintain this long.
I see you experiencing unconditional love. Not only for her, but for yourself.
And that is the main purpose we're put on this earth, from the soul's perspective. To learn unconditional love.
Im seeing that all LBS's are on this path. We have had no other choice but to sit at the bottom of the barrel or find our way out. And the journey and lessons along the way are irreplaceable!
Than you for being you. I continue to admire and learn from what you experience and post.
Kimmerz
Hi ya Kimmerz! Long time, eh?
So we had an awesome backpacking trip, s1 and I. We jammed out 24-26 miles backcountry in 2 days, 35-40 pounds each including water. While hiking we would each be in our own thoughts, then at breaks or a campfire talk about our lives, process together, share and dig deep. Good special father/son time...he turns 21 shortly and will be moving out, again, lol!!
He really pulled away from 13-16 years old from both of us (this is pre-mlc)... now we are best friends after he went through his teen years and he has tasted adult life being a wildland firefighter...he told me on this trip that he knew I was always there, he didnt really appreciate it until 17 or so, when Mom started her journey...W was really bummed when she overheard him telling the younger boys "When I have to make a decision, I think to myself "What would Dad do?"".
Lots of validation for me this trip.
So it's been over a week and no "talk" with W...the one time I asked her about it, her response was....wait for it...."I don't know" LOL!!... I just shrugged and replied "Ok, let me know".
Part of me is annoyed sometimes that she is keeping me and the kids waiting, the bulk of the time I forget about it completely...I have an awesome, busy life going on dontchaknow!!
Knowing I don't want to "push", because it has proven ineffective, and what's another week or two after all this time? Her words or actions will be known at the end of the month, as her roommate's lease is up and her roommate has to move.
Getting ready for the annual trip to Park City with the boys shortly...yup, full, busy life, and it's damn good.
T,
I'm so glad to read that you and your son had a great time on your trip. This trip meant a lot to the both of you. Your son is growing up and will soon leave the nest once again.
As for your wife, she'll talk to you when she's ready. She's still not there yet...continue to give her the space she needs. She has another week to make up her mind and she most likely won't do that until the very end of the month. MLCers don't like to make decisions quickly. LOL!
Enjoy Park City...life is far too short not to enjoy it!
Hi T2,
I've been wondering about that talk she wanted to have and have been checking to see for the last week! Just like an MLCer. What ever she "felt" when she said that probably isn't at all what she "feels" now. Probably couldn't tell you what was on her mind when she said it to save her life! I also have found that my D19 and I have become much closer now after a very rebellious period from 15-17. She doesn't understand her mom or maybe she does better than I think as she has said that her mom's acting like she's 15 years old. "I wanted to run away when I was 15. I got over it!" was the best thing she has said to date.
My W left for good yesterday. She's moved into her new place 26 miles away. So ends 25 years together and she acted like it was nothing. No emotion, just like she would be back later. See me next Saturday when she comes to pick up more "stuff". She is almost in a daze when around me. When she does speak, she's being nicer than she has in a long time.
I'm praying for your W to come through her sitch and realize just what it means to lose you and break up the family. I really think she just is lost and really needs to find her way back. Good luck and enjoy that busy life!
T,
My, my...it's good to hear from one of my two crushes!
The backpacking trip sounds awesome and a lot of fun! Brings back fond memories of backpacking and caving in my youth. And those wicked small black bats in those caves!
Yep. Job's right about MLCers being wont to make decisions. To us, 'deadlines' are pressure too. Just no way to get around that illusive mirage...that's that.
Keep going...aren't you in a band now? How's that going?
Park City? How wonderful!
I'm sorry W moved out Matt, it [censored], but I bet you will find a huge change in the house vibe...when my W moved out the tension, anxiety and negativity followed her right out the door. The kids even noticed it.
My W is farther along the tunnel trip than yours is, it feels like she is climbing out and has some clarity, but I don't know what is on her mind, lol....but whatever she decides about her future and if it includes me or not will be made from a calmer, more stable place. And that was one of my goals, to last long enough until she stabilized. From there, who knows?
Important thing is that I accept her as she is now, whatever that means for the future. No anger, just acceptance, compassion and foregiveness.
lol, Thank you, Wonka!
Yup, band is going extremely well, and we all like each other (!)...should be playing out by October or so.
My life is good.
And, yes, W never liked making decisions before MLC, so that hasn't improved as far as I know, lol!
Thanks T2,
I was hoping to do the same, last until things stabilize and I may have if things hadn't sped up a few weeks ago.
I'm working on that acceptance, compassion and forgiveness and was almost there when things changed so much so fast when her father's cancer was found to be back. Drove her right back into her tunnel, only deeper. Most of the time I do feel those things but then something happens and I get the old, destructive anger back. Happening less and less now and I think my D19 coming home will help keep my mind on the important stuff. Thanks again T2!
Wow TS2. I have only popped in from time to time dealing with my own madness ...
Good to hear that you are doing well.
Thank you job!!!
Yes, life is too short...we will have a blast there.
My W is farther along the tunnel trip than yours is, it feels like she is climbing out and has some clarity, but I don't know what is on her mind, lol....but whatever she decides about her future and if it includes me or not will be made from a calmer, more stable place. And that was one of my goals, to last long enough until she stabilized. From there, who knows?
Yep, glad you did that amigo. Sounds like is full! Very nice to hear.
I do wonder though. By the time your W decides what she wants to do, if you'll be around to hear it. I know you're in a good place and in a holding pattern while you wait. It's just that I wonder sometimes...I do know you'll be more than fine whichever way things go. That's clear and very welcome as well as inspiring.
Peace!
AJ
Important thing is that I accept her as she is now, whatever that means for the future. No anger, just acceptance, compassion and foregiveness.
You rock, T. Positively one of my biggest hero's!
Hi T2,
Just wanted to stop by and say if my H comes around and shows 1/10 th attitude you approach your marriage with we will make it.
Wishing you only the very best:)