How are you and the boys doing?
Hi Job!!! It's been a while since here.....I've been busy, and just doing my stuff, and trying to get through this mess.
S19 is doing well. Hates school, I don't think he actually does, but, the drama of saying it. Lol. Still working and volunteering with the fire fighter academy.
S14's perianal abscess is back. Took him to the dr and started off with warm baths, which didn't help much so now he's antibiotics and I'm scheduling an appointment with a gi specialist as this is the second time, I have Crohn's and I have a family history of people with ibs, I need to confirm that this is not the reason for it. I had decided to tell H about taking S14 to the dr after I visited with him and his response was "oh sh!t, really" to which I replied yes. It was a "s's abscess is back. I've taken him to the dr and scheduled a gi consult. I'll keep you posted to his progress". Got a "I asked him and he said he was fine" I didn't respond although I wanted to ask when he had asked. Early the next morning he asked how son was as he had not heard anything. I wanted to say you didint ask anything but just elaborated a bit on drs orders and got an "ok" in response. Haven't heard from him since.
I did hear, via 6 page letter, all about his demands though. He wants his stuff (furniture and tools), he wants to give me spousal for 5 years when I'm entitled to 16, wants to share custody, wants to split S14's schooling, only wants to give me 150/month for S19, wants me to give up any rights to his cpp (Canadian pension plan) so I guess I'll be on the street in my 60's, wants me to look into other mortgage options as they think that I can find a lender that will grant me a mortgage for less money than I need from H now, and I have until feb 4 to decide or the offer is off the table and he wants to put the house up for sale. Needless to say I'll be responding after the 4th. Try and make me sign my name to sell the house. The mortgage is in good standing so it won't go into foreclosure and I highly doubt a judge will force me to sell it with a minor child in residence when I've secured a mortgage on the basis of money from h I'm entitled to......haven't discussed it much with my L but I spent 1.5 hours on my rebuttle. Including that I want sole custody as he's a crap dad. He's also trying to say I had no right to make a unilateral decision in regards to lowering tenant's rent in exchange for work around the house as I did not ask H to complete the jobs first. I laughed. Then listed 4 differnt times I had and his response to each and then asked at what point do I get to say "he's not interested" and get the work done. He's still crying poor me about having to pay the visas, support, and rent. I pretty much said I didn't care that I also pay family debt and continue to support my kids and do it without complaint to H so I suggest he do the same.
I am wanting the space in the tool shed for some reorganing I'm trying to do and am thinking of sending H a text along these lines
"Hi H. Just wondering if you'd be able to come get your tools and camping stove w/tank in the next week? If you can't i understand I'll place everything at the side of the house, covered in plastic that you can pick up at your convenience".
I'm sure he'll have a fit but I need the space, he wants his stuff, and so anyone have thoughts??
Hey WR,
Sounds like you've been busy.
And H sounds like a d*ck. Demands, demands. I am sure you will come up with the appropriate response along with your lawyer. In my jurisdiction, if custody isn't agreed to be "shared", then the only option is sole custody (separate from visititation). One S is an adult, so does not count (again, support is a separate issue) and your other is over 12. Can't see a Court forcing him to go with dad, if he does not want to.
The only thing that concerned me about what you said above was: "The mortgage is in good standing so it won't go into foreclosure and I highly doubt a judge will force me to sell it with a minor child in residence when I've secured a mortgage on the basis of money from h I'm entitled to."
WR, does this mean you will depend on the support your H is supposed to give you to continue to mortgage? Have you actually secured the refinance? Different jurisdictions, but mine does not consider support as part of the ability to pay. Yours may. It's too risky, you see. More often than not, support is simply not paid or cannot be counted on. You would be very wise not to count on it overmuch. there are limits to remedies available when H does not pay.
I am sure your L will go through all this with you. I don't at all mean to be gloom and doom, I am just familiar with what happens when people rely on spousal or child support only to never see a dime from it.
Otherwise, you sound like you are in a good place mentally and I am glad for that. Life does go on, doesn't it?
Hi Portia
I have a loan secured, with a separation agreement agreed upon for a certain amount, and as soon as he agrees to it I can assume the mortgage and pay him out. I'm asking for what I'm entitled to and not any more. If he decides not to pay I take my agreement to family maintenance, government agency, that takes over and will go to his HR and say taxes first my payment second and whatever is left at the end will be his.......they don't screw around. Legally I don't even have to wait for a missed payment I can set it up now but then his HR would know and it would make him look bad so I'm just leaving it as is.
I have to rely on spousal/child support. Don't most people? I'm not independently wealthy and have children to care for. I do understand your train of thought though.
Life does go on. I have better days than others. Still have a finger on the rope, as it were, the "just maybe" hasn't truly left me yet. Coming up on a year to BD in April. It's been a ride
So here's a question. H has pretty much been silent for the last few weeks, last contact was about S14's medical issue, and he's not contacted me since about seeing how as is doing. Is complete NC a good idea and allow him to make the moves? I will be asking him to come get his tools, which I guess is me initiating contact, and not really making anything up as I do want them gone as it need the space. S14's parent teacher is on Tuesday. I had no plans to mention it to H as he's made no move to appear to want to be involved, and he can look at the school website just like I did, of do I initiate contact about that as well? Too much contact? Leave it be??
Thoughts
Does H know he can look at the website to find out the information? Would he have known this irregardless of the sitch ?
I think if it were me- I would send a brief text about the conference time and date and give H the opportunity to mKe the decision on his own. I just think that when it comes to things like this it's ok to give the information and leave them to decide what they want to do.
There's no specific time set up BO it's all the teachers in the gym and parents wait in line to talk to the teacher they need to see. High school so multiple visits to different teachers. I guess I could say "s14 has parent teacher Tuesday. I plan to be at the school by 6 for if you would like to attend"?
The school has run via website for years and years, our older s went through it as well, so he should know.
Any thoughts on the "pick up your tools" conversation?
I think leave the tools convo. And for the parent conference maybe just a text along the lines you suggested. Then it's up to him what to do.
There is a ten-fold increased risk of celiac disease in Crohn's (and probably a much higher percentage of Crohn's patients who have gluten intolerance ). Has your son been tested for gluten intolerance, has her tr5ied a gluten-free diet? be aware that the mainstream celiac test can miss milder gluten intolerance.
J Res Med Sci. 2012 Feb;17(2):154-8.
Serologic celiac disease in patients with inflammatory bowel disease.
Tavakkoli H, Haghdani S, Adilipour H, Daghaghzadeh H, Minakari M, Adibi P, Ahmadi K, Emami MH.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
There is an association of celiac disease (CD) with several gastrointestinal illnesses. We aimed to determine the prevalence of CD in patients with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) to evaluate the value of the routine serological tests for CD in these patients.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
patients with IBD underwent screening test for CD. The screening test was based on IgA anti-tTG antibody evaluated by ELISA method and IgA EMA (endomysial antibody) measured by the indirect immunofluorescence method. Fisher exact and chi-square and t tests were used for data analysis.
RESULTS:
the study was conducted on 100 patients, with a mean age of 34.74 ± 12.03 (SD) years. The mean simplified Crohn's disease activity index was 90 ± 17 (SE) and the mean colitis activity index was 3.46± 0.96 (SE). Seventeen patients (17%) had IgA anti-tTG antibody levels above the cutoff point (> 20). Thirty-two patients were positive for IgA EMA. IgA EMA was positive in nine IgA anti-tTG positive patients (three patients with Crohn's Disease and six ones with ulcerative colitis). Then, the prevalence of serologic CD was 9% that was higher than that of general population. A significant correlation was found between the results of IgA EMA and those of IgA anti-tTG (P=0.001) whereas Fisher exact test revealed significant difference between frequency distribution of positive and negative results of IgA EMA and IgA anti-tTG in patients with ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease (P=0).
CONCLUSION:
the prevalence of serologic CD in general population in Iran has been reported to be 0.6-0.96%. Then, its prevalence in our sample size was about ten times more than that in general population.
WR,
I'm copying and pasting some useful information on boundaries that Betsey wrote in Melissa's thread over in Newcomers. This is something that you would want to tuck away in the back of your head.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
It's up to you to have your own boundaries and morals and to decide which of them are important enough to enforce and which are their business and you're judging - or if it's your business and they are judging. I love a concept that I learned from D16's special ed teachers along the way: "If this, then that". It's how they teach her.
If conditions exist where they aren't truthful with you and you don't like it or appreciate it, then.... (fill in the blank). Enforce YOUR boundaries, but don't go looking for trouble. And if your boundaries are just nonsense or absolutely weird or completely not reality, then run them by your IC.
Even without "teaching" my P/A husband to change with me, I did it and enforced it. He'd tell me he'd be some place for our D and not show up, I went anyway. I didn't mention it to him, didn't nag him and let my D19 stew. He let HER down. And when he'd call to make an excuse or apologize, I'd tell him, "It's not me who's hurt - it's our D. Why don't you explain to her?" Boundary enforcing. Not my circus, so I let the lead monkey be accountable to the one person he hates hurting. He changed, Melissa. But before then, I'd have read him the riot act and gone for his jugular. Nothing would have changed.
And YES, it's reasonable to take people at face value. Assume they shoot straight. But if they don't, then do something about it.
I'll message him about the teacher interviews. Not quite sure how to go about with the tools. I need them out and it was one of his demands on his L's six page letter to me so I'm guessing he wants them.
Thank you for the info KML. I'll recommend testing him to my dr
Wait a cotton pickin' second, WR...I'm looking over your notes and will get back to you with some thoughts.
Thank you Wonka. Very interesting read........I'm thinking, I'm hoping I did, made boundaries very clear especially in regards to what I would, and would not, allow him to expect from our boys.
Did you post this reference in regards to my anger over not being more fatherly to S14 while he has some health issues? The school meeting? Just so I understand completely.
Ooops I must have posted my question as you were responding. I'll wait
WR,
About as messy as trying to push back Play-Doh through the machine cranking out different shapes.
I did hear, via 6 page letter, all about his demands though.How was it outlined? Which format and from whom was it delivered?
but I spent 1.5 hours on my rebuttle.How did you work on this rebuttal? With your own L? Not clear on this part.
I'm thinking of sending H a text along these lines
"Hi H. Just wondering if you'd be able to come get your tools and camping stove w/tank in the next week? If you can't i understand I'll place everything at the side of the house, covered in plastic that you can pick up at your convenience". Zip it. Say nothing to H since it is now a part of the negotiation/business transaction with the L. Step away from this.
S14's parent teacher is on Tuesday. I had no plans to mention it to H as he's made no move to appear to want to be involved, and he can look at the school website just like I did, of do I initiate contact about that as well? Too much contact? Leave it be?? If I were you, I'd make sure that H has the contacts from the school so that way he receives communication from the school on upcoming parent-teacher conferences, meetings, and other pertinent details for S14. Then let H handle it all by himself from that point and on. H is a big boy and knows how to get information.
I guess I could say "s14 has parent teacher Tuesday. I plan to be at the school by 6 for if you would like to attend"?
You can say, "H, please be advised that there's a parent-teacher meeting this Tuesday at xxx pm for S14. After this message, you will need to take the responsibility for obtaining this type of information from the school yourself going forward. The contact information is posted at the school's website. WR"
This way H will need to learn to be responsible for his own actions or lack of actions when it comes to parenting your children. Which is why I posted that particular gem from Betsey on boundaries. You are not H's mother when it comes to communications from the school.
WR,
Did you post this reference in regards to my anger over not being more fatherly to S14 while he has some health issues? The school meeting? Just so I understand completely.
School meeting and school-related activities.
WR,
About as messy as trying to push back Play-Doh through the machine cranking out different shapes.
LOL. Just about THAT messy for sure.
I did hear, via 6 page letter, all about his demands though.How was it outlined? Which format and from whom was it delivered?
it was delivered from his L to mine. It was a list of questions, debatable points and his wants. At the end of the letter I had until noon today to respond or it would be off he table in it's entirety (his offers to me) that I was not to choose points in part had to take it as a whole and that if I did not agree I would need to put the house up for sale immediately. There was no response to the letter from my L. I'm not interested in his offer or their threatening tone but I spent 1.5 hours on my rebuttle.How did you work on this rebuttal? With your own L? Not clear on this part.
i went line by line arguing points, making my own demands and comments on differnt areas and have sent it to my L for review. We will write a response together and she will forward it off. H's L is on holidays for the next two weeks and H is flat broke, crying poor me all over he place, so I'm guessing that was part of the reason for the deadline. I'm thinking of sending H a text along these lines
"Hi H. Just wondering if you'd be able to come get your tools and camping stove w/tank in the next week? If you can't i understand I'll place everything at the side of the house, covered in plastic that you can pick up at your convenience". Zip it. Say nothing to H since it is now a part of the negotiation/business transaction with the L. Step away from this.
i did ask my L if it is appropriate for me to ask him to come and get them, she said yes and to make it like that he would need them/want them so I'm offering them.....if I wanted to do it she said it's fine S14's parent teacher is on Tuesday. I had no plans to mention it to H as he's made no move to appear to want to be involved, and he can look at the school website just like I did, of do I initiate contact about that as well? Too much contact? Leave it be?? If I were you, I'd make sure that H has the contacts from the school so that way he receives communication from the school on upcoming parent-teacher conferences, meetings, and other pertinent details for S14. Then let H handle it all by himself from that point and on. H is a big boy and knows how to get information.
i have set it up that he is contacted with info but not sure if he would know about the meeting. It's not something teachers tell patens, we need to check the site, so H gets report cards and any progress reports but I doubt any of the day to day stuff. There's just not enough time for a school to be responsible for that I guess I could say "s14 has parent teacher Tuesday. I plan to be at the school by 6 for if you would like to attend"?
You can say, "H, please be advised that there's a parent-teacher meeting this Tuesday at xxx pm for S14. After this message, you will need to take the responsibility for obtaining this type of information from the school yourself going forward. The contact information is posted at the school's website. WR"
do you think this info could be construed as oppositional? The take care of yourself from now on part? I completely understand how I'm not his mother, and this was part of our marriage's problem, but don't want to come across as a b1tch or bossy as, again, one of the problems of our marriage This way H will need to learn to be responsible for his own actions or lack of actions when it comes to parenting your children. Which is why I posted that particular gem from Betsey on boundaries. You are not H's mother when it comes to communications from the school.
Thank you for your help!!
WR,
You ask:
do you think this info could be construed as oppositional? The take care of yourself from now on part? I completely understand how I'm not his mother, and this was part of our marriage's problem, but don't want to come across as a b1tch or bossy as, again, one of the problems of our marriage
Not really. You're setting a boundary and letting H know that it is his responsibility to seek out school-related information since he's the one who wanted out of the M. The suggested response isn't bossy or bitchy at all. You're communicating to H about the parent-teacher meeting with just the facts. And leave it at that. His choice to attend or not.
So I haven't sent the message about S14's parent teacher yet.....but, went to the bank yesterday and my support payment wasn't there. Technically, should be the first but, I allow for a few days for his pay day to fall around it. Guess what wasn't there ONE entire month after it starts. I sent a non-judgemental (I think it was) text
Hi H went to the bank and noticed the support payment wasn't there. Just wondering if tomorrow was pay day and when I could expect it
Of course, I've heard nothing, so I've messaged my L to get my support agreement and get the government agency to start garnishing his wages. I would guess he's punishing me for not accepting his "deal" and allowing the letter's deadline to pass without word.
I just don't get their thinking......how does one justify not supporting your kids in anger towards your wife??
WR,
Your H isn't thinking about nor thought out the impact on the kids at all. He's very angry and is directing it at you with the goal of hurting you. So childish. Ignore him. Good for you to contact your L and get his wages garnished. That'll make him sit up and take notice!
I figure I gave him the opportunity for him to explain and he's ignoring me....our children are not going anywhere and have needs and I'll make sure they're cared for by whatever means I need to.
He's one week delinquent...send a text to your lawyer and advise her/him that your payment is late. Those payments, in a sane world, should be in your account on the specified date.
Yes, I sent it first thing this morning, letting her know as well as a screen shot of the text so she has it for her file. I can set up the wage garnish myself, without her help, so I can save the L costs.
I would go for the wage garnishment as soon as possible. There shouldn't be any reason he's late and this is his way of punishing you for whatever reason.
punishing me for his life being so utterly miserable I would assume.....that and I let his L's timeframe lapse.
I agree...but, I guess the million dollar question is, when does the MLCer realize this??
They don't realize it for a very long time...usually when they begin to wake up, the tail end of withdrawal into acceptance.
well, I guess, he'll have to live miserable and broke because my kids need to be cared for and last time I checked I wasn't alone in that bed when they were conceived
I guess the million dollar question is, when does the MLCer realize this??
IMO, it is 2 questions...
1) does the MLCer EVERY realize
and 2) if they do, when is that.
The answer is the same - no one really knows. Either way, keeping do what you need to do for you and the kids. He may wake up, he may not. As long as you are doing it as respectful as you can - that is all you can ask of yourself.
Sorry you find yourself in this sitch.
Thank you ericsant2!
I fall just as much as anyone else and say/do things that, in hindsight, were not the brightest moves.....but, I'm trying. My main motivation throughout this all IS my boys so I hope when this all clears in the wash this is what stands out.
I would agree that no one knows when an MLCer will wake up BUT I have doubts that they don't realize it at some point. I'm beginning, through stories I've read/heard, that they all realize it (some even on their death bed) but whether they ADMIT that they realize it is another question.
In other news I talked to my L yesterday....it would seem that my support agreement is only enforceable through the courts and not the through a government agency which would garnish his wages. Because it is not an actual written order that has been filed, but the court transcripts that were signed by the L's and the judge, I would have to take H to court if he decides not to pay. I had a bit of a melt down on my L yesterday....she said that the money will be owed to me at which I told her my kids need food now and not down the road. I told her I didn't want to keep hearing about H's visa problems (she asked if that was his response to me via text and I said he never responded to me but that is what keeps coming up in his L's letters to us) I said I also pay family debt including the property tax that was just due, the hot water tank I just had to replace and now a mortgage payment that and it would seem that I am also solely responsible for ensuring the lights stay on, the boys have food and clothes too. She said his L needs to stop using the visa payments as a reason for not giving me my support as child support comes "way, way, way before visa" That it becomes very difficult when "these guys are just jerks" So until we can agree upon the "wording" of the agreement I cannot garnish his wages. She asked me to send H a follow up email and BCC her in it, which I did, and as H's L is on vacation until Feb 22nd she called and talked to a senior attorney who followed up with my L saying he had left a message for H in regards to the support payment due to me ..... so I'm in a holding pattern
Whiterose
My main motivation throughout this all IS my boys so I hope when this all clears in the wash this is what stands out.
In my experience it will. Doesn’t always feel like it…but as someone once said to me…”trust the process”. Your boys will be impacted on some level, you really cannot get divorced with no impact. YOUR boys though have YOU. You can show them how to deal with it, show them what it means to be strong, show them what compassion really looks like and (my fav) show them what TRUE forgiveness looks like.
BUT I have doubts that they don't realize it at some point. I'm beginning, through stories I've read/heard, that they all realize it (some even on their death bed) but whether they ADMIT that they realize it is another question.
I would agree with this ^^^^. I believe that most will come to realize it on some level, but I have to imagine the pain is to great to deal with – so they bury it.
Sorry to hear about the payment. I really despise the entire divorce process. The only ones that get paid are the attnys. Do you have any other means to pay the mortgage? Since the agreement has not been signed then can you assume any debt that becomes H’s responsibility? At the end of the day, the boys need a roof over their head – so ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Try not to spend any energy being pissed at H (very tough I know)…take that energy and apply it towards finding a solution to get the mtg paid.
Peace,
Eric
Thank you Eric.....I'm working on not being angry at him.....it's very hard.
HELP
Got a note back from my L, H's L sent it to her, saying I would get payment on Friday. Look, I get a valentines gift. Lol. What a crap load of money when all he had to do was tell me when I messaged him last week that he would pay Friday.
Anyway, I sent an email,cc'd my L, that I need online access to the joint account. No response. This am I messaged him
Hi H can you please send me the joint acct login info?
H: do you not have access to this account? I don't want to lose access to this account until the house and mortgage are dealt with I have already gave you all he info for iTunes and you changed everything so I cannot access any of the music I purchased which the majority of it I did
Me: I do not have access to the account. Please forward me the login info to the joint account
H: I'm sorry WR I'm not giving you my ow in the joint account to have you change everything on me
Me: I can understand your reluctance, h, but I'm legally entitled to online access to that account. I will need to go through L, which will cost more money, to get me the access I'm asking for via text.....to save money please forward me the access. I will not change the pass word until it's settled
H: and please do not quote what I owe on a court order again. (I think he's referring to my email from last Friday where i state it's a court ordered payment) you are the one who has done a play on words and stopped everything all of this would have been dealt with if you followed the court order (I'm not sure what he's reffering to here......maybe he thinks the judge gave me a time frame to get him his money??). .....then. I got
We also need to sort out a schedule with the kids. I know they are both over 12 and decide where they want to live but that's not what I'm asking about. I want to be able to have them on weekends......then I got
I would also prefer not have lawyers involved neither one of us can afford it...then I got
Can I ask why you need the Info?
Me: I would like to be able to access other account on line now. I will talk to the boys about their thoughts on a schedule
H: I did speak with S14 and he says you have him pretty busy so it's hard to meet up.....then I got
Just two weeks later not behind (no idea....is he talking about me getting the payment??)
I talked to s19 and he said he's busy working and happy seeing H for a few hours at a time like it is now. I'm guessing that since s14 lied, I do not keep him busy to the point where he couldn't spend time with H, he's not interested in seeing his dad.......through me under the bus. Lol. How do I respond to the kids. Do I ignore the comments about me delaying?? I still don't have the login info.....
How do I respond to the kids. Do I ignore the comments about me delaying??
Separate the two issues - account access and kids.
First up, I would layout a schedule for him with the kids. Talk to the kids. One of them is 19 so really that R is between him and the 19 yo. As for the younger child, create a set schedule. Does the younger child have a cell phone? If so, I would respond to your H with..."here is the schedule for the kids. I will share this with them so that they are aware of the dates that they are scheduled to with you. Please contact them on their cells to confirm if you are going to pick them up on your scheduled days.
I would not ask again for the online access or at a min. request that again in a separate text/email.
You do not want it to look like you are holding the kids hostage until you get the online access.
Glad to hear that you will receive the money you need on Friday.
Peace,
Eric
I've asked for the info again
Hi. Do you know when you'll be able to send me the login info?"
I also said I didn't understand the last message about the two weeks.
Haven't discussed the boys. S19 does not want to spend the weekend with H and is happy with the set up as is. I need to talk to S14 if he did tell his dad I keep him so busy and of he did why. I will then send a message to h relaying the info
this is kinda how it all went down last night after I asked for the login info again
H: Hi WR I'm very reluctant to send you this info I'm very concerned you will changed the login info and until everything is settled and we no longer need a joint acct I would like to have access
Me: I understand but will not change it until then
H: I'm pretty sure you said the same about the iTunes acct and I lost all of that (I never did say I wouldn't change it and I'l always had access....my cc had been on the acct for about 3 months by the time I changed it.....he had all his music on his iPod so did not lose anything)
Me: Please, I won't change the login, but, am entitled to access and as I don't get paper statements any longer i need to go through online now
H: I'm not denying you access you can always go to the bank. How do I know you won't change your mind like you have done on the last couple of things I thought were agreed upon only to get a letter a few weeks later (I really don't understand what he's referring to here......I'm not sure what he thought we had agreed upon that I've changed my mind on....my L has not sent my retort to his L's letter yet)
Me: I've promised you I won't. You have it here in writing if I were to. If you won't send it to me I'll go through our L, which I don't want to do as it's unnecessary and expensive, but, I'm entitled to access and would like the login info please
Then he starts a what do you need? (Login & pw) You created the pw (he's meaning me but I created it years and years ago and have not used it) and I realize he's enjoying it so I start going on line to try pw and just as I try the third one (three times wrong it locks you out of the system) he sends me the pw. By now I've tried it three times and we're both locked out. I thanked him for the pw and told him we're locked out now as I tried the name and he said "Oh I may have made it xyz" I said I did not know that and that I would call the bank today to let them know it was just me trying to access the acct. He then asks me to give him the pw if I change it (this is obviously a bother to him) at which I say I have no intention of changing the pw unless the bank makes me and I would let him know. I don't understand why he cares if I have it? Why does he need it is the bigger question (I mean his name is on the acct and he has a right to it) but other than depositing my child support into the acct I pay the mortgage off of the acct and nothing else happens there)......
He then asked if I had talked to S14....which electronics he was not grounded from as he told his dad he can no longer check his email.
I let H know that the boys were out (they were) and I had not had a chance to really discuss it with them.....my problem is this is the second lie S14 has told his dad. The first one was that I keep him busy on weekends and cannot visit his dad and the second is that he cannot check his email. YES he's grounded from his computer and iPad (he skipped choir, a full credit extra curricular, after I told him he had to see the class through until the end of the year and now he's been kicked out so no computer/ipad until the school year ends....H never asked WHY I did what I did) but he can check his email on his phone, which he still has. I did tell H that S14 has his phone but as he's never been big on it the best way to get ahold of him may be through the home phone. No response.
Any thoughts??
The issue w/the password is one that has stuck in his craw because of the iTunes issue. He feels that he was entitled to use your account, etc. and he didn't want to set his own up.
As for the bank password, etc., this is a joint account and one that you pay the mortgage from. Yes, you need the info to monitor the account. You have assured him that you will share any changes and that should be good enough...but wait! Right now, he's got control and is making you "beg" for the info. He thinks he's got a bargaining chip that he can use.
You might want to check with your bank...even if you are doing electronic banking from this account, you could also request a hard copy of the statement each month. Don't allow this man to jerk you around...there are many ways to get what you need in today's society.
As for your sons...you will need to sit down w/S14 and have a good talk w/him about the lies. This isn't good and if he doesn't want anything to do w/his father, then he needs to tell him. The lying is only going to escalate and his father is going to continue hammering you about the issues.
Good luck!
Call the bank. I've had to do this several times. I think they know me by now!
Well since you asked
1) I think I understand where you are in the process. Allow me to explain. IMO, you are at the "let me speak to him as an adult and hopefully he will respond as an adult" OR "I am talking to someone rational" phase. I went through this for a while..a long while actually.
IMO, stop expecting him to be rational and resonable. Period.
You are not going to talk sense into him.
Quick story....so I was talking to one of my very good board friends...explain how my XW - was totally unreasonable. My comment to him was.....
"I'm a trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is unreasonable".
His response to me .... "say that again"..
So I said it again, his response was the same - "say it again". This went on for a few minutes. The point was this....
I was trying to have a
reasonable conversation with someone who is
unreasonable.
So stop it. He ain't gonna change - at least not yet and not until HE feels he needs to.
ACCEPT that right now he is not in his right mind. Nothing you say to him is going to snap him out of it.
H: I'm not denying you access you can always go to the bank.
If you take the emotion of out of your interactions with H, you will see that he has a point. YOU could have just gone to the bank and explained that you need online access. Stop expecting him to be reasonable, SHOW him that YOU DO NOT need his arse.
but, I'm entitled to access and would like the login info please
"entitled" - IMO, I would try not to use this word. Why? Because both of you have different views on "entitled". He probably feels "entitled" to things that you would not agree with.
Keep the responses to him very short and too the point. If you do not need to speak to him - don't.
Continue to respond to him, keeps YOU stuck. Keeps you from moving forward. Fustrates YOU.
So what other reason beside the kids would you need to text or speak to him for. Oh..btw, I get the saving legal fee money rational. Sometimes though ya have no choice. You really cannot reason with crazy.
So...what are you gonna do the next time he texts you?
Peace,
Eric
WR,
Job and Eric raise very good points. I have nothing to add here.
One thing I did notice about s14' lack of enthusiasm about H. It seems to me that he is afraid to tell H how he really feels because H may get angry and minimize s14's feelings. Who wants that kind of rejection? Who wants to feel dis-empowered by an adult...especially if it is a parent?
You all make very valid points.
I cannot get access online by going to the bank.....they don't have access abilities. I could have tried on line but it's very difficult, at best, they could have shut down the account and I would have had to re install it with a new pw.
I have all the info now so it's good. Eric, generally, I don't initiate conversation, I'm actually pretty good with waiting for him, but it's been frustrating not knowing if my child support was there, what the balance was if the mortgage was to go through, and every time I would go up to the bank and have to access info via the machine. I've been doing this for months and months. The reason I'm not getting paper statements anymore is because his name is on the acct and anything with his name is automatically forwarded to his new address, I cannot get his name taken off the mailing address as it's generated from head office and his name is on the acct, they won't remove it.....I agree I could have gone the L route, was going to, but just spent $300 to get my child support info, as he would not respond to my texts, and didn't feel like spending even more money.
I do pick and choose what I'll answer to if he does text me. There are times I've never sent a response, and, as you read, I did not engage in any talk about the iTunes, past things we'd agreed to that I sent letters about (although I really wanted to know what the hell he was talking about) I kept to the login info and then answered his questions about the boys.....everything else remained untouched (as it were).
I'm going to have to talk to s14 about his responses to his dad. Both boys have been VERY reluctant to tell him their feelings. I try as much as I can to validate their feelings, tell them it's ok, tell them he'll still love them but, in all these months they are are just unable to express themeselves. I think S14 uses ignoring H as a defence mechanism and may be tired so is starting to use me. I'll see what he says and maybe let H know they are not comfortable spending anything more than a few hours with him at the moment??? I know they should tell him but how do I force them when they're, quite obviously, scared??
WR,
I know they should tell him but how do I force them when they're, quite obviously, scared??
You can't 'force' them to tell H how they truly feel. What you can do is to continue to be the safe haven to the boys so they feel safe with you emotionally and can confide their worries/concerns to you. One other thing you might want to consider is setting up family therapy for everyone involved so, in this way, the therapist can facilitate the opening up process in addition to shielding the boys and you from H's wrath as a neutral party.
What do you think?
If H isn't open to the idea of family therapy, then you might want to consider putting that in writing as a part of settlement/Court order.
I think it's a great idea but I'm worried he'll think it's a ploy to get him into counselling. Before I was here I begged him to go, even s14 (I saw this on his phone days later) asked H to go to counselling with me......he's maintained there's nothing wrong with him, I've explained it has nothing to do with being right or wrong, but, he doesn't see it like that........his family also has the same pov when it comes to counselling......anyway, I will talk to the boys at dinner. They're both home, see what they say, relay info to H, see what he has to say and then maybe in a few days say I'm looking into family counselling would he like to join us????
he'll think it's a ploy to get him into counselling
He may and then again he may not. As long as you know it is for the boys - it really does not matter what he thinks. YOU cannot control/change what he may or may not think anyway. So do what is right for the kids.
Enjoy your dinner and I hope you can at least get the boys to go see someone.
WR,
You can go to family counseling with just you and the boys. You can communicate this to H and leave it up to him to decide to join or not. Maybe some day down the road your H's curiosity will be piqued and he'll eventually join you guys. Who knows?
I talked with the boys last night. S14 wouldn't say much about his responses other than trying to justify them so I kinda just let the conversation slide.
They wouldn't mind trying one night a month for now and see how it goes. S14 said "yeah, that's ok" and s19's concern was getting to and from work. Where his dad lived.
Haven't responded to H yet about what the boys said but early this morning I got a text asking what S14's plans were tomorrow. I asked if it was for dinner (ever valentines I make a special dinner with dessert) and H "whenever" I said we have dinner plans, as I've already worked out the mr I with them, but depending on S14's project maybe in the day. I asked if he would like to help with it. He asked when it was due and what it was. I said hockey cards with info on the Russian revolution (supposed to be the French Revolution but I've since learned at parent teacher s14 was not doing the work on anything French Revolution I think because H is French). H asked if S14 had hockey cards, I said no he would need to make them, and he said "wow that [censored]" I said "I agree". That's the last I've heard from him. He did also message S19 but all e had was tonight and husband said "sh1t. How's studying going?"
Do you think his sudden interest in the boys sleeping over and seeing them this weekend is due to ventines day?? Last year was very tense as H and I were struggling (I with my desire to be out and H withdrawn more than ever). I knew he just wasn't as invested in our marriage as before. I now see it was full blown MLC
WR,
I'm going to be honest and just say that no one knows why the MLCers do the things that they do on any given day. But, his sudden interest in the boys could possibly be because of legal issues and maybe he's lonely and actually wants to stay in touch w/them. I don't see where Valentine's Day would have anything to do w/him wanting to be w/them.
Now, if his nutty buddy behavior was towards you, that could very well be a different story.
I would suggest that you not think too long or hard about why he's doing this sudden "Disney dad" routine...but I do home he'll work your S14 on his project.
If you sit quietly, some of the answers just might fall into your lap.
well, I guess, Job, he's nutty over Valentines day, or something, because I got quite a rude response to my text......Please tell me if I said something bad here.....
Hi H
I talked to the boys last night and they've agreed to start with one night a month and see how it goes from there. You can arrange a night, that works for the three of you, with them.
I made a mistake when I said B's (our nephew) birthday was this weekend - it's next weekend. S14 is spending Saturday with C (my girlfriend) and she's bringing him home after dinner. He does have his project to work on and we are doing dinner together tomorrow night
WR
This was his response
That's fine. I will speak to them also....you cannot control or tell them when they can or cannot see me.....
Did I say something badly here? I told him I would talk to them, which I have, and he's angry at me.
You should have said they agreed THEY wanted to start with one night a month.
Just tell him look, I'm not restricting access, they just aren't excited to see you. I hope you can work out your relationship with the boys, H.
KML do you think that one word is what has caused his anger? well, apart from the crazy MLC anger, it's just that easy to set him off?!?! I should have never gotten back to him.....
I could say that back but then I can imagine the ramifications that would come after that statement.
WR,
This one line is what H was reacting to: I talked to the boys last night and they've agreed to start with one night a month and see how it goes from there.
To him, it sounded as if you spoke with the boys and said that they only had 1 night a month with H. This is how it looks from the other side. I can see why H reacted the way he did.
I like Ellie's suggestion.
I didn't mean it like that......
Should I say...
I've never restricted access to the boys, they're just not thrilled to spend the night with you. I hope you can work on your relationship with our boys, H.
Would this be considered a truth dart? It's going to make it uglier?
WR,
Let it go. Just keep in mind for the next time. It's no use in "pointing" out things or stating the obvious to H. He needs to figure this out for himself. If and when H texts you asking about the boys or pressuring you to have them contact you, you can say:
H, I am removing myself as the go-between with the boys. I will not be the middleman any more. It will be up to the boys on how they wish to spend time with you. If you have any questions that you want to ask the boys, you'll need to ask them directly. WR
I like what Wonka wrote above. I'm in a similar situation White. My H says I've turned the girls against him with my "nonsense talk."
Remove yourself, as much as possible, and allow them to sort this out among themselves.
I like Wonka's approach. It will keep you from being in the middle. Both boys are old enough to speak to him directly. It will also help with any response you may have. Right now, you are too worried about what and how to say/respond back to H. IMO, that is not good for YOU.
Keep any communication short and to the point. I remember struggling with this for a while. It finally got to the point where my best response was a "yes" or "no". Anything more than that was leaving a door open for an argument of some sort.
Also, you do not always have to respond to him.
I never responded to that text. He did send me one on Friday morning saying he had deposited the child/spousal support. I thanked him for letting me know and wished him a good day.
I sent my L my thoughts on her responding letter to H's L this am (she just got back from vacation this am and H's L is back on the 22nd) and this morning I got a message
"I have been trying to understand this but can't figure it out. Why you chose not to respond to my last letter from the lawyer?"
I don't know if I just say "mynL got back today and from what I understood yours is back on the 22nd at which time you'll have my response"? Or do I leave it? I don't want him thinking it's me that's stalling. Life happens for me and our lawyers and things take time.
Heather, I'm so sorry he's saying those things to you too. You're a wonderful mother and love your girls beyond measure........you are a strong woman!!!
I don't know if I just say
Instead of answering this question...I'll ask you one.
Why do you feel the need to have to respond?
Think about it...
Why?
I guess because I was taught it's rude not to......I don't respond to everything. Honestly, I don't.
This was my response
We do. My lawyer came back today, and if I recall correctly yours is back the 22nd, at which time you will receive our response.
H: we got nothing back at all....
Your lawyer had contacted my lawyer's office about support so she was in town...the date to respond was feb 4
Me: you will receive my response when your lawyer returns
H: that was not what was asked in the letter
I understand you are taking advantage of him being on vacation but I put a date on the letter for a reason
We can sort a lot of this stuff out on our own with out lawyers
Each message was sent a few minutes apart.
I don't understand how he thinks he can be all threatening and angry and then be like we can do this without lawyers.....I'm not responding to the continued texts Eric:)
WR,
You can't reason w/someone who is irrational. If he responds again, advise him that it is in your lawyer's hands and that your lawyer will be responding. End of story...don't get into a text match w/him. If he wants to find out anything more, he can contact your lawyer himself and get shot down.
You are paying good money for a lawyer to represent you...let that lawyer deal w/his lawyer on this.
WR,
I do not believe that you always respond to H. I not saying this..err...writing this to upset you. If I have I am sorry.
IMO, you are not being rude - if you do not respond to somethings. Here are a few examples (they are the extremes)
1 - God forbid, the boys get into an accident. I wouid respond to any text related to that.
2 - H texts you about legal stuff. I would NOT always respond.
3 - H sends a nasty text. I would never respond.
So in the context of his text to you...
"I have been trying to understand this but can't figure it out. Why you chose not to respond to my last letter from the lawyer?"
I would not respond. Why? Why do you need to keep him in the loop about things that your L is doing?
When I was going through this with my XW the hardest thing for me to do was detaching from my XW. For me, I felt that I needed to respond to be "nice", so that i was not "rude"...etc. The deeper reasons though...were because I was HOPING that she would "see" the new me, that somehow she was interpret my responses in a postive light...that somehow on some level I could "talk, convince" her in a subtle way..that I could show her what she was giving up.
On some level this is normal. Sometimes though it can just make it harder to really detach.
I learned to ask myself a few questions before I would respond to anything.
1) Does it impact the kids?
2) What is the purpose of my response and does that purpose line up with my goals?
For me at the time, my goal was total detachment - so I choose many times NOT to respond.
At the end of the day, you need to feel comfortable with whatever/however you want to interact with H. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
Peace,
Eric
WR - sorry I was typing my response when you sent yours in.
I agree with Job.
You do not need to respond or even provide a reason to him.
If you do, know why and what your goal is.
Oh please don't think you upset me Eric, you have not, I'm just probably saying it more for my benefit.
That's a great list, I'll need to keep those questions in mind for future messages. It was suggested that good DBing would be to say that we can do this without lawyer (validate) but I don't think he's in a place to negotiate with me and is going to freak out when he sees my response letter
I guess I'm still in standing place but I'm on a fence and the wind is blowing and I don't know which way the wind will blow me......
I guess I'm still in standing place but I'm on a fence and the wind is blowing and I don't know which way the wind will blow me..
Know what is cool?
YOU get to decide which side of the fence you land on and even cooler than that.....
YOU can sit on one side today and another tomorrow.
It is all YOU.
YOU have the choices and .....the freedom to change your mind at any point.
don't think he's in a place to negotiate with me and is going to freak out when he sees my response letter
He may freak regardless of the letter says. Then again...if you probably offered to move out, give him the house, the kids, all of the furniture, offer to come into the house only to cook and clean - then promptly leave. Hand over all retirement, offer to drive him around, hand over your entire pay check for the rest of your life, ask "how high" every time he says jump, pay all legal fees (including his attny), assume 100% of all debt, pay all school fees for the kids, and all of his living expenses in addition to handing over all of your income and really just understand that everything is all YOUR fault....
Well then maybe he will not be upset
You can... though keep your cloth
You're exactly right Eric, I get to choose, when I know, I'm guessing, I'll know. I have a great way of falling to one side of the fence then getting back on it and falling on the other side and back on it ..... Lol
I haven't, yet, responded to his text about going without lawyers, I'm a bit of a chicken I think. I want what I'm entitled to but I know he'll get angry and spew and I don't want to go through that. On the other hand, he may not, and we could save money, and it gives me an opportunity to db as we have so little contract it's hard for me to show him the changes I've made.......
Not sure yet
WR
Still dancing with H, I see.
You have more power than you know. And I know how exhausting this is for you.
Here is my nickel's worth, take or leave what you will.
You have retained a lawyer to protect your interests and that of your older children. Your H has been reluctant to pony up anything of his own volition. In fact, not so long ago you were concerned how you were going to make your mortgage payments. Do you honestly think that you and your H can work out these details? You are already nervous about his reactions.
Please do not confuse DBing with the business side of things, for your own protection. Giving in to his demands is not validating him. Let the lawyers handle it. Let your boys handle their relationship with their father, they are old enough.
WR, in the end these choices are up to you. You know your life, needs and situation best. Take care of you.
You make very valid points Portia. I agree with your assments. I'm already nervous of his reaction, based on past experiences, and I'm not willing to sacrifice our future on "trying out his mood"
Thank you so much!!
WR
Well said by Portia - pretty much to the point.
I'll only add....stop being afraid of him. Stop being afraid to stand up for you.
Is the money that you may save worth the grief and fustration of dealing with H?
Peace,
Eric
Hi Eric,
I agree, Portia, hit the nail on the head.......
You've also hit the nail on the head, I am scared, when it comes to H I lose my nerve and I just don't understand this in me. I'm, generally, quite a strong person, but, you put him "in front" of me and I don't want to rock the boat for fear of????? he'll make it worse? he'll divorce me for real? he'll never wake up and come back? I don't understand my feeling when he messages me and, quite frankly, it frustrates me because I know it and I can't seem to overcome it. Throws me into a tailspin and I'm unable to work out a proper response for myself.
No, the money possibly saved is not worth the grief.....
WR
Over time the fear will go away. You will come to understand that nothing you do or not do can change how your X will or will not respond/deal with you.
I found that what worked for me was no response at all. none. nada.
Have you ever told you the lion story? If I did, stop reading now..
Okay here goes....what does a lion do when it is hurt?
It separates itself from the pack. It lies down away from the pack and licks it's wounds. It does not mingle, play or even interact with the pack. It really cares for it's wounds.
When the lion is STRONGER - not fully healed - just stronger. It joins the pack again. Stonger....
So maybe WR, you need to step away from interacting with H for now. Lick your wounds. When are stronger you can then find the way to deal with him.
Peace,
Eric
Well, the letter from my lawyer, in response to his, went out this morning and I've received the first wave of hate mail
OK getting tired of the lawyer talk what is it you actually want?
Not sure how you can claim I didn't pay the mortgage when I left cause We both know that's a lie . Also M has been back at work for a long time..... Also getting tired of running into mutual friends and hearing the things you say about me and how you plan on making sure I'm miserable and don't care if I end up homeless because I'm the one who left...
Just so we are clear this is not a game to me and I agreed to many things and you continue to drag it out because it is never enough if what we agreed on on court is not a go then we need to sell the house I'm not going to continue to do this.
He's crazy
I'm really upset. What did he think was going to happen? What does he want from me? Other than getting my support I don't initiate or ask anything of him.
Sitting at work and I'm fluctuating between bursting into tears or throwing stuff......
I'm a little lost in where you are in the negotiations.
He has to pay child support and spousal support (is this just temporary, or is this the final amount?)
You are keeping the house? (Can you get it refinanced in your name? How much equity is there in the house? Or are you trying to just stay there until youngest graduates, then split the equity with ex?)
How much community debt is there besides the house? How are you planning to split that?
Seems to me that it's not all that complicated. What exactly does HE want? (Besides a zipless divorce where he walks away with no responsibilities at all?) What did the court say? What is left to negotiate?
Sorry White.
Yes, he's crazy. What about today's exchange is fueling the anger and tears?
For me, (in similar situations) it's the reality of how alone I really am and how damaged he really is.
WR,
The problem, as I see it is that your h is trying to beat you down into agreeing to whatever he wants. The problem is that he doesn't want to work w/the lawyers to get things done. Guess what? He knows exactly what he is doing to you and he doesn't care just as long as he gets you to throw your hands up and say I'll give you whatever you want to just go away and leave me along.
If he calls or texts you again, don't respond, just print the texts out and give them to your lawyer. It's time to go NC as much as possible unless it's about the boys.
The more you try to rationalize w/him, the more access he has to you and what you are thinking...please stop trying to negotiate w/him...it won't work at this time and let the lawyers do their jobs.
KML went to court and it was explained to him that I would take a lesser amount of support until the credit cards (his debt but I'm responsible for half) is paid out at which time I will be requesting the full amount ($300 more a month).
I've made it clear I will buy the house, bu the terms of the bank are that I need $0000/month in child/spousal, which is actually less than what I could ask for, but more than I guess he's wanting to give me. Once I buy the house I can pay off the gross amount of CC debt he's accumulated and pay him out his equity (-my adavance of inheritence, his premarital debt and some back support owed). This was all discussed and I'm not sure what he's even referring to when he says we are not sticking to the terms of what was settled in court.
Heather, I still love him (old him), I'm tired of all of this. He's attacked me since the day he left. I'm tired and stressed and so very tired. I don't understand what he's talking about, I can't ask him what he means, I can't defend myself....
Thank you job......I have not responded to any of his messages
His behaviour is getting "odder" Sunday night I was sitting on the couch (about 9:45 pm) and I heard a diesel truck outside. After having it there for a few seconds I looked outside the window and am pretty sure it was H's truck.....I think he drove by, and must have stopped, for a moment in front of the house. Freaked me right out (wondering about what he wanted why he was there) and then started having doubt about what I saw.
Next day I saw that he had texted S14 at 10:30pm asking how his night was. Odd time to messaging him and not something he normally does.
Just odd behaviour (or should I say new behaviour)?
WR,
That is definitely odd behavior, but I've heard of this before. They come and park in the driveway or on the street and just sit there w/the engine running. It's almost like they get there and then don't know how to come up to the door and ring the bell or knock. Then again, it could also be a "visual visit" to see that the home is still there and looks the same.
There's really no way to figure out the why of this visit...but he's got something on his mind and doesn't know how to communicate it just yet.
Continue to be patient...the answers will come.
White, my H texted me almost exactly a year ago at 3 a.m. in the yard. Came inside and said he had done it a lot. He would park the truck and walk around the yard. I don't know if he still does it?? He lives an hour away so it would be much more difficult. I'm sure he's driven by though.
The kids thought it was really weird. In the summer, I'm a little more paranoid when the windows are open. :-)
They are a strange bunch, that's for sure.
My xh use to do that here, as well as at my parents. He would also come to the house when I wasn't home, come into the house and I guess either sat around or slept. I deliberately stopped dusting because I wanted to see what he was doing. It was very strange, but to this day, I don't know what he was doing. I had a password lock on my computer and had the TV's on certain channels, etc. so that I could at least have a sense of what he was doing...but no...I'll never know.
They really do some strange stuff and there's no rationale for it.
Thanks ladies. He drove away as soon as I started to open the blinds to peer out. Didn't park but stayed in the middle of the road, as per normal,I think he may be lonely or pondering. Just the face he messaged S14 at that hour leads md go believe that. I guess, as this is new behavior all of a sudden, it kinda freaked me out.
Is it funny to say I kinda thought at done point he would? I just always knew he would drive by, but, as it's almost at the year mark I just thought I was crazy for thinking that. Wonder what he's up to? He must be really low to be starting this. That's what my gut tells me anyway
It was a year mark when Smokey owned up to it. Couldn't say if it continued/continues or not.
Hi Everyone........I'm checking in. As you have seen (or not seen) I've taken a break from the boards but H is still in full MLC swing. Today is BD Anniversary day. At first I'd given myself a year to stand and here I am just wish it was all over because I'm tired of the crazy.
He continues to spin out of control and today messaged me, at 6:30 am, to let me know he'd quit his job and if the boys, are I, needed any prescriptions or dental to do it before his benefits run out at the end of the month. According to my BIL, that works at the same place H used to, all HR would say is he is working at a print shop. So here he is back at it......He left printing because he couldn't stand it. The job, that he has now left, was such a source of great joy and now, once again, he's made another change in search of happiness. This is his 6th job move in 20 years (not including the two years he was laid off and had 2-3 jobs until he could get back into a print shop). I did respond to his email with a "Thanks for letting me know and have a good weekend" response.
I have been to Monte Carlo, back as of three weeks ago, for work. I messaged H the day I left that I was going away for a few days and the boys wanted to stay in the house (I had discussed this with my L and she said it was fine as one was 19 the other almost 15 and my parent's would be monitoring and that we could not force the boys to go with their dad). Needless to say, H was angry VERY ANGRY. He sent me some nasty text messages and then called me (this was his first phone call to discuss anything that I had sent him) where he rambled about everything I had done wrong, how I was trying to destroy him, that he was their legal guardian as well and had a right to have them before my parent's did, I stayed very calm and simply stated facts. At one point he told me he didn't want to hear my Bu11$hit answers that I had learned from a book and when I showed some emotion he would talk to me. It spun more out of control and I ended up warning him I would have to hang up if he didn't calm down. I did have to hang up in the next few sentences. He called back two hours later to basically continue to list all my faults and how I'm trying to "get him" to which I remained very calm and stuck to the facts. He then told me that me and my lawyer (as on several occasions I mentioned that I was not doing anything that it was simply how the law works) were too emotionally invested. I didn't respond to that. I did end up having to hang up again saying that he was obviously quite upset, that I was starting to get upset, and that it would not end well and that the conversation was over. When I got to Monte Carlo I noticed that SIL #2 had followed, and then unfollowed, me on instagram (she's done this a few times) so I just blocked her. Opened my email and there was an email from his L about how I had, pretty much, abandoned the boys and he would do everything he could to look after them but would need more notice next time. Wanted to know how much the trip to France (which I did not mention to him but SILL must have told him) cost, where I got the money and when I'd be back. Also, from and earlier email re: the separation agreement, still not signed BTW, I had made a reference that I conned to pay the mortgage and was keeping his credit score in tact, they wanted proof. I replied back to my L telling her the boys had been provided for. That it was a work trip and I had no idea how much my (5 star) trip was costing and that unless there was a mortgage fairy I was unaware of it gets paid every two weeks and exactly who does he thinks puts the money in? My L replied and basically stated the facts about the boys and the trip and that the mortgage never was in question before and how is it financially responsible to basically create problems where there are none. S19 messaged me a day later a text between himself and SIL #2 and it was basically that S19, S14 and Newphew 14 had gone to the drive in. S19 posted a pic to instagram (H did not, now does, have an instagram acct) so she messaged (whom she thought was H) saying "S19 is at the drive in. Just posted a pic" S19 responded "yeah that was me" SIL#2 responded "oh, yeah, have fun" S19 immediately messaged H to tell him he was sick and tired of SIL#2 yelling at him, friending, unfriending, blocking, and tattling on him to H. H responded that it was because she invites S19 over but he's always too busy. Two days later I went onto FB to add a friend and noticed that SIL #2 (that had blocked me on FB) was now "following" me (so from what I understand about that anything that I post as public (as we're not friends) will show up in her feed) I blocked her on FB too. When I got back I had to forward H a consent form for S14's ADHD testing and he called me to discuss it. I was polite and answered his questions. Next day he called me (7:30am) to ask if I knew anything about Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) saying he had not filed his 2012 taxes. I said Ididn't know anything as I had given him his file before he left and that I assumed he had taken it all with him. He said he would figure it out. I said that was great. Next day I got a message with his new phone number to which I thanked him. Got a message about CRA again and him needing the acct's contact info, which I sent to him, called the acct myself to ask what was going on and she said "Remember how I called him 3-4 times to come in and sign the forms so I could send it to them?" "yes" (I had asked her to do that) "He never came in so it was never sent" So it's tax time again and H owed approx $1200 to revenue canada which means there is 5% compounded daily interest on that, and the penalty, going back a year. It would also explain why I never received my child tax credit for 2013.
And now we're at my anniversary and he's quit his job.....13th is the anniversary of him moving out. What a year. Didn't think I'd survive BUT you guys have gotten me through those darkest moments when I thought that death was a better option. Thank you to you all for being such a blessing.....to those of you only a short way in.....you can do this. You truly can.
White,
I'm so sorry about the continued crazeeee. You sound strong though and I know you will take care of you and the boys. :-) They are so lucky to have you!
Much love,
Heather
WR,
I'm glad you took a business trip and Monte Carlo is a very interesting place to travel to. Every time I visit the area, I think of Princess Grace and all she stood for. I do hope that you were able to enjoy yourself a bit and take in some of the sites. Did you get an opportunity to visit the casinos for a bit?
Oh, I think the man quit his job out of spite this time around, but he's going to find he's not happy back in the printing area. Again, it's his own fault and once again, he'll have to face the consequences of his actions.
Now, I really am curious as to what your SIL has to gain for being the spiteful witch. Your son is old enough to look out for his younger brother and quite frankly, they are both mature enough to take care of themselves. It's not like your parents actually stayed w/your sons. Besides, they wouldn't have wanted to stay w/their father and I'm sure you would not have wanted him staying in the home.
I have to say that you do sound stronger and I think the trip did you a world of good. I'm just sorry you have had to deal w/his MLC crazy making and his sister's nonsense while you were away.
Please take care of yourself.
Hey...lookeee...who popped out of the DB hole? It's WR, of course!
Job, I'm thinking that SIL is acting as H's spy for the kids and sucking up info on WR to relay to H. Sick people. It is good that WR unfriended SIL. Who needs wackos like that?!
WR, you're doing a good job of sticking to the facts. H cannot argue his way out of those facts. Well done on the phone convos with H and hanging up when he became disrespectful to you. You've come a long way, baby!
Thank you Heather...it's so nice of you to say. I'm pretty lucky to have them too (although have two teenage boys 24/7 I sometimes want to throttle them
)
Hi Job! It is so beautiful there and I did get a day to go to Cannes and a few hours here and there to go exploring in Monte Carlo. I'm not much of a gambler but did eat Crepe Suzette at the Hotel di Paris and took lots of photos of different things. I'm sure his boss was an a$$ (I mean he was a little but there's one in every office!) and it was too close to my BIL, too close to our house, I wanted him to have the job and he did it for me.....one of three million excuses. She's a real piece of work Job. Even said, in a text to S19, that one day she hoped he'd understand why his dad left his mom. When I heard that I was so angry. I wanted to slap a restraining order on her--I couldn't believe anyone would say that to a child (let alone his own aunt!) Actually, H, during our phone conversation, accused my family of poisoning the boys against him to which I calmly replied that "the only family member that is in contact with the boys about our relationship is SIL#2" to which he interrupted that she only was trying to get them to visit but they're always too busy. I'm guessing he's referring to the fact that a week before spring break S19 received a text asking if they wanted to go get together to which he mentioned he had to work and his school (as he's in college) had a different break from the regular system. She responded with a "well, you can always call us too you know.....unless you're not allowed to use the phone" He was so upset he messaged me the conversation to which I told him to thank his aunt for the invite and that he is permitted to use the phone. She replied that was good to know. I have told both boys they are not permitted to refriend their aunt (she's since asked again) on FB. I said if she messages you you need to reply with respect but that FB was off limits as this whole back and forth thing and spying is not happening anymore......I don't care if it gets me in trouble. My boys don't need that!
Hi Wonka......here she is! LOL Yes, I just had to block her off of my stuff....it was turning into craziness and I don't need to be speed on. Yes, him getting all flustered because I show no emotion, and then the second convo my lawyer and I are too emotional, him yelling I need to "stop saying it's the law" and a few other zingers shows that I'm hitting a nerve. At one point I told him he really needs to talk to his L about how this works as he seems to need to have some clarification to which he yelled "I don't talk to my L!" ummmmmmmm the things I wanted to say to that! You have a L but you're getting you're info off of the street?? I didn't say that but WOW
Thank you all for saying I sound stronger.....you know, I think I am. I'm getting to the realization he's never going to come home healthy and I certainly don't need him like this. I was talking to a friend the other day and said you know I now see that in the two years before BD I lived in a constant state of anxiety. Was scared to ask for help, or for chores to be done, or to go here or there, always waiting to see what he'd complain about or who he'd complain about. The 13th he'll be out of the house for a year and things have certainly not turned out as he wanted. We're close to a signed separation agreement but, yet so far. Also, one of the things he freaked out on was when he could come get his stuff (we have agreed to a division of property) to which I replied when I got back we would set up a time for him to come get it (he then again asked when to which I said when I get back we'll set up a time to get together when the boys aren't home.....I DON'T GIVE A F WHERE YOU'RE GOING OR WHO YOU'RE GOING WITH" LOL) anyway, guess who still has not contacted me about it since I've been back. I honestly don't know how standers do it with these people in their house.......their strength level must be through the roof!
Hope you're all well and that life is filled with blessings xoxox
Hi guys,
I'm checking in again (and journaling).....lost my footing a bit yesterday so figured I should chat a bit.
Have passed the BD and move out 1 year mark and my birthday (on the 29th) was the first "second time" so we start the cycle again.
No contact from H's L since Monte Carlo (mid March) so not sure if we're waiting for me to make a move or him.....? I'm just not going to do anything and save money. If he needs something from me he can ask his L to ask my L.
Had to do my taxes and realized I never received the mortgage interest statement so I had to ask H for it. At first he didn't remember seeing it and then he did and was angry that I was going to use the interest on the mortgage he had paid for my tax wright off (I can write off the interest as I run a home based business) in the same text he said he would look for it and fax it when he found it. I didn't respond to the anger and said "Please forward the fax to ......" which was my acct's number. Waited a week and messaged him again asking if he'd found it and he said no. I asked if he thought it was lost or just had misplaced it and he said he would look again to which I thanked him. I asked my acct to do a quick calculation based off of last year's interest as I honestly did not believe I'd see it. Few days later I got a text saying he'd found it and if it was ok to fax it the next day. I said it was great, resent the number, and thanked him. Next day (friday before my birthday) I got a text saying he'd sent it. I confirmed with my acct then responded with a thank you and to have a good weekend (which Id done plenty of times before with no response) but he thanked me and said he hoped I had some fun things planned for my birthday that weekend. I was shocked......I, quite honestly, didn't even know how to respond to something so "human". I said thanks and that I had some fun things planned and wished him a good weekend again.
On my birthday he sent me a happy birthday message and also asked if I knew anything about S14's hospital visit time (he had to go in for a colonoscopy) H was going to come and then got the new job and didn't think he'd be able to and then he said he could. I didn't know. messaged me again and I called the hospital and they call up to 5pm for the next days schedule and, of course, they called me at 4:40 lol so I messaged the times and place we needed to be. H then called the house, around 6, looking for S14 to which I said he was not home (he had been at my parent's house doing his scope prep) and I had a friend here who was quite loud as I was going out for my birthday and had to shush her to talk to H LOL got a message about an hour or two later asking if I could get S14 to call H as he wasn't answering the phone....I responded with "he should be home by now" and that was it.
Next day H and I spent pretty much the entire day together.....it was hard, and nerve racking. We'd not spent any time together (without a L) since last march (2013) At first he tried ignoring me (I had nothing to do with it) and said "HI How are you?" and he responded. while waiting at check in he said to S14 he needed a hair cut (he took S for this weakend) and that he had a great barber by his house and he'd take him for a cut. I was utterly shocked again....he hasn't made any mention of "dad" stuff since before he left and he was always the one to take the boys. I just said "yeah, I've been telling him for a while he needs a cut...that it was great he would take him" when we got into the room he wouldn't sit beside me but the room was small so it's not like we could ignore each other. We chatted. There was some laughs. H asked about my bday and I went to answer but S14 started talking about his to which H responded I was asking your mom as your birthday is not for a couple more weeks....I changed the topic to talk about S14's birthday plans. S14 had to leave to get weighed and I had brought up the fact I need H's address (I had said it earlier in a text and he didn't like that I wanted it) but I made it clear I need to know where my children sleep....it's not an option. He said I don't know minute by minute what you guys are doing and I said "I don't need an itinerary of events but you know where your children reside and with a one word name you know exactly on the map where your children are....I'm their mother and need to know where they sleep. I believe that my past actions can attest to the fact I won't be all crazy and show up at your door or somehow stalk you....it is a purely a safety thing" S14 walked back in and the conversation ended. No yelling, no arguing but we each made our points. Got into the common waiting area where we hung out together. No cell reception so H would come and go to be able to use his phone and I was able to get the wifi and he asked "do you get wifi" "yes, I have an iPhone" we all laughed it's always been an iPhone vs samsung phone thing as the boys have samsung as well. I went into the operating room with S14 until he fell asleep so I had to ask H to hold my purse, to which he agreed readily, and he even helped me get on my hair net as I couldn't hold my hair up and get the net over. I came out crying, praying S14 didn't have crohn's like me, and H kinda said "he'll be fine" but that was the extent of it. I got myself together and was going to get a coffee and offered him one. He said no but that he had gotten one from the shop in the lobby and it wasn't good. I still got one from there as I didn't want to be away too long. Got S14 a gift from the gift shop and a cookie and a scone. H and I sat next to each other (I figured he'd be across the room or run into the hall or something) he got up to get water but came back and sat next to me again. we chatted, he asked about my niece and nephew, to which I said Oh B is getting big and H turned his head and got sad and said "It's been so long since I saw S14 (2 months) he's so big) I said yes the grow so fast and told a story about son's school pants being too small after christmas break he had grown so much. He willingly told me about his new job and his reasons, his boss, that he hoped it was a good move but you don't know for months, etc....I validated and just let him talk. Brought up the address again but again no argument just that it was not an option and again promised I would not just show. we talked about some news on the tv just regular stuff like we used to. It was very tentative but it was a small step. We met S14 (he's ok thank God) in recovery and as the nurse was giving us the meal plan for the night H mentioned I could go to booster juice and get him a smoothy and I laughed saying well dad can cause mom is not driving over the bridge. He said I guess you get a shake. He helped me get S14 into the van and I thanked him and he didn't say much. On the way home S14 fell asleep and I took a cute pic of him and sent it to H with a "thought you'd get a laugh" not much response. My sister, BIL and niece and nephew came by with some dairy queen and I was chatting with them about the days events and how surreal it was and got a message from H asking if S14 was awake. Said yes that the "W's" brought DQ and he said oh I guess he doesn't want a shake and I said I'm sure he'd love one THEN HERE IT IS "would you like a frosty too?" HOLY $HIT I was like immmmm, sure, haven't had one in forever. He said he'd bring it around 8:30 but couldn't stay. I said "you're going to bring it in?" as we all remember he does not enter the property LOL he said yes. And he turned off the engine to the truck walked up the steps rang the door bell WOW The dog was uber excited to see him and he said Nick really needs a cut to which I agreed but that I didn't have time and maybe he could do it the same time he took S14 laughed. I invited him in but he "had a long drive" clue one he had moved again (fifth time in a year here people) I said no problem and thanked him. Next day he messaged me saying he'd be sending the address after work but he wouldn't get home until after 10 and as he'd just moved couldn't remember his new address. I thank him. Next day still nothing and this was friday (the day he was picking him up) so I messaged asking if S needed to pack anything specific and that I had not yet received the address. He responded that he hadn't sent it and then sent it a few minutes later. I thanked him and then said I had one more question "are you living with anyone?" we had a bit of a conversation (he was obviously not impressed) about how I knew very little about his life and that if he lives alone then whatever but if there is someone else there I need to know who he is coming into contact with. He then said I was opening the door to him asking me about everything I was doing and meeting and I said I would never introduce the boys to anyone without giving him a head's up. I apologized said "I know this [censored] and I don't mean to pry and haven't asked up until now but now S14 is going somewhere I don't know and I needed to ask" He lives alone he said and that he hopes he can expect the same honesty when he asks. I said yes and that I understood I thanked him for his understanding and his honesty.
that night I got a pic of S14's new hair cut and I responded "Our handsome boy. Thank you for taking him" nothing in response.
Then came yesterday, so confession time, I set up a POF account a while back....been on two dates but nothing much has come of it and my heart is not really in it.....anyway I opened the acct, hadn't in a few days, and who is there but H as my #1 ultra match staring back at me. I went into a tail spin (crazy I know) and his profile is quite short with a very "I'm on honest hard working guy looking for friends blah blah blah" spent most of the day crying and then got mad at myself for crying so was in a bit of a spin. Was going to send a cute note and then talked it out with some friends and decided that would just be stupid so did not. Went out last night, for my bday, and got a text from H about S14 being dropped off today. I asked about the soccer game, they didn't go as S didn't want to, but they watched the documentary I recommended to H at the hospital (S14 is a brony, a male that watches My Little Pony.....it's a lot for a dad to wrap his head around I get it and we had a convo about it at the hospital and I suggested the documentary which helped me) I asked what he thought "still not sold but whatever" "LOL I can understand that. It's a lot to take in ....." no response I didn't bring up the POF acct.
Anyway, thanks to some friends who asked the hard questions, I realized yesterday I hadn't dropped the rope as much as I thought I had. That I still love him and I still have a long road.....so back to basics......
WR.
Happy Belated Birthday! I'm glad you posted an update. I have been thinking about you quite a bit and even visited your thread a couple of times to see if I had missed your postings.
I'm glad your son is okay. It's always scary when you think they may have inherited something you have, but at least you now know he doesn't have it. I'm sure your son wasn't too happy w/the prep stuff, but it's better than it use to be. LOL!
I'm very glad to see that your h was there at the hospital and acted like a human being for a change. Maybe this is a good sign that he realizes his sons need him and yes, they are growing up very quickly.
Don't beat yourself up, it takes time to truly drop the rope. Be kind to yourself and know that one day, it will happen when you least expect it. Again, I'm glad your son is okay. Now, the question of the day is...how are you doing? Any more trips lined up?
Please take care of yourself.
Hi Job
thank you for the birthday wishes
thank you for your continued care and love.
I'm so grateful he's ok, awaiting some biopsy results, but the dr seems to think it's ok. Prep is definitely better than it was in my day LOL
I'm hoping he sees that and is making changes. He had him for a few sleep overs, when he was living at his sister's house, last year this time, but we'll see. I saw him checking me out a few times (at the hospital) too which made me feel good.
Thank you......I felt pretty dumb with my reaction.
I'm doing ok. Working lots and taking care of the boys. No trips planned (actually H asked if I had any trip planed too...took everything in me not to say "no the south of france will be hard to beat" but, I was a good girl) I'm still quite lonely. Miss male companionship. Miss being married but it gets less and less, thankfully.
just wondering.....does this what peaking out of the tunnel looks like? He's been a little more short in his replies, I also asked some very personal questions, but, I get the feeling he "felt" something wednesday and going for ice cream is kinda something we used to do.....I'm wondering if he is scared with his feelings.......
WR,
He was having moments of clarity and yes, he's peeking out just a bit, and it's nothing to get too excited about until it's more frequent. Yes, they scare very easily when they begin warming up just a bit and then back into the hole they go, just like a rabbit being scared of whatever is out there.
Keep the focus on you and your sons. It's important that you not react to your h's behavior right now. The less attention you give it the better because he just might warm up a bit more if attention isn't drawn to his recent behavior.
thank you Job.....you're honestly and patience with me is always so appreciated.
It's nice to see "him" but I remember all the advice I've seen in past not to push it so I've not made any moves (other than the address and questions about living with someone but that info is necessary for my boys so I had to) I don't send him any messages, he makes first contact, I engage slightly but don't push......hoping I do that "properly"
I assumed that his POF acct was partly due to the fact that he felt very alone after coming to the house to bring the frosty's. S14 and I were cuddling on the couch, had just started a movie, the dog....he saw that from the front door as the window is visible from that vantage.
H messaged me Saturday night about dropping off s14. I asked how the soccer game was, turns out they didn't go as neither wanted to, watched a movie and the documentary I recommended when we were at the hospital (s is a brony, boy that enjoys my little pone.....it's quite a cult following. I get that it's hard for H to understand how his teenage son likes it so I recommended the doucmentary). I asked what he thought and his words were "not sold but whatever" I said "lol. I get it. It's a lot to take in....." No response. So H dropped off S14. Didn't come in, I didn't expect him to. He had messaged me, just before arriving abo taking s14 on he may long weekend (not this weekend but next.....7th is H's bday and 10th is S14's bday) I didn't see it until I got into the grocery store parking lot about an hour later. so I guess H was not happy that I hadn't responded to his texts because about an hour later he called my cell saying he was looking for A. 'You not home?' 'No. Everything ok?' 'Yes. Just trying to figure out the 18th?' 'Yes. It should be fine but I've not had a chance to look at the calendar' ' he wants to go' "I understand that. It should be fine but I'm going grocery shopping and haven't checked yet. If he's free no problem. I can let you know' 'ok. If you can tell me tonight so I can make arrangements?' 'Sure. And btw his hair cut looks great. Thanks for doing that' 'no problem'. Then 10 minutes later a text
"Just want to make sure that you remember he is allowed to be with me whenever he wants and I get to be with him over everyone else.. "
Ugggg.
He's pulled this text a few times, last time was when I went to Monte Carlo and the boys didn't want to stay with him. I didn't respond for a few hours but eventually said
"Hi. That weekend should be fine". "Thank you" "your welcome :)"
And that's where I am.
WR,
Your h sounds like a little boy who wants his friend around him, i.e., your son. Poor man, just doesn't get it.
I think you are handling your situation quite well and by not reacting to his comments, he has nothing to get his knickers in a twist about, except...the sun comes up and goes down each and every day. LOL!
Well, job, it turns out my tenant was right.......every time H is nice I get an FU letter from his L and he said he's been so nice I was gonna get the mother of all letters. Got a 7 page letter yesterday.
He's claiming that the separation caused him to be in such a state that it caused conflict with his boss and he was on the verge of being fired. Apparently they had several meetings as of October (funny October as he left in april) and that in February he was warned he'd probably be let go so this new job came he took it instead of being unemployed. And he's now saying he's making close to 25% less income. He doesn't want to pay any spousal and wants to give me $100/ month for our S19 who, although in full time school, works a part time job and should cover the rest of his own expenses. My sister asked if he was so distraught why did he not use the free counselling service offered by his extended medical!?!? Me assuming the mortgage was contingent upon the amount of support I received. He's wondering how I can cry poor me when I took a job that paid me in a luxury trip instead of cash. He can get fired for being distraught, after abandoning us and rarely seeing his children and having absolutely no responsibility but my one week away to further my career was bad?? He's contesting I paid any family debt so I need to show proof......his visa was in good standing when he started bouncing the mortgage which meant I had to take over the mortgage and stopped paying his visa......who did he think was paying that?? If I don't accept his terms, including stop paying the court ordered support currently as he's so bad off, he'll take me to court. Of course that is not desirable, as he's so bad off and it'll be expensive, but he will.
I've been upset since I got this letter yesterday. He's all over the place, which his normal I understand, but, he ignored me for so long, was nice and then this letter when he warned me at the beginning of April it was coming. I guess he waited for pay stubs which two were attached but I don't know how much more I can do. He's horrible. Just destructive and doesn't care who he takes out.
I'm tired and depressed and just don't know what to do anymore. I see my L Monday but it's just more fighting and legal bills to get what I need to save my children.
WR,
I'm sorry to hear this, but I'm not surprised that he's come back at you. Generally, when they are nice, they either want something to want to stick it to you. In your h's case, he's still hot that you went to overseas on your working trip. He doesn't realize that your company wasn't providing you a luxury vacation, but you were actually working. Silly, man.
Here are my thoughts on his claims. If he was having difficulty at work, it's not because of you, but because of him and his crisis. He wasn't about the use the free counseling service because he wants to play the victim and doesn't care who he takes down and how much it costs in the end. Also, you need to be on your toes, by him claiming he's making less money, he may very well come in and try to get you to pay him spousal support. Yep, you read it right.
If I were hit w/this type of nonsense, I would call him on his bluff and go to court. It's time to end this BS and allow you and your sons to get on w/your lives. BTW, if it goes to court, how is he paying his lawyer and court costs?
Do not allow this man to know he's upset you. It's all about control and being vindictive because of envy and jealousy. He's not happy, therefore you shouldn't be either.
Get your ducks in a row and be ready to meet w/your lawyer on Monday.
Thank you job. He's asking stupid questions, through his costly L, and asking me to prove stuff he already knows. I just don't understand.
I still make quite a bit less than him so I don't think he'd be able to try that game. He doesn't like he has to "support me" (a statement he made when he called to yell at me just before I left on the trip). He doesn't seem to understand it's for his sons.
His L will be paid once he receives his settlement from the house. Unlike me, who is paying as I go, he will lose all his money from the buy out.
I'm trying to be strong, but I'm tired of this. It's been a year of lawyers and craziness and he just doesn't seem to see the end is nothing but crazy
WR,
I think your h is a lot like Bea's h. He can't let you go and he doesn't care what he has to do to keep you wrapped up in his drama.
I would have a nice chat w/my lawyer and I would advise him/her, that enough is enough and let's get this stuff in writing so that he doesn't continue to come back w/the same BS. All he thinks he's doing is paying you for support, not for his sons. Your sons don't fit into his sick equation at all.
I don't think I could be upset by this latest stuff...more like I would be furious w/him. You've tried being pleasant and civil w/him and yet, he still is snapping at your feet. More distance is required on this front and this may explain his comments about seeing his son whenever his son wants to and also he would get first dibs on his son's time.
I do understand your position and that's why you need to call h is bluff on this and go to court. It might make he realize that he can't control you or your life any longer. One quick question, why wasn't this letter sent to your lawyer or did your lawyer receive a copy of the letter too?
In the meantime, please try to take care of yourself. Monday will be here before you know it and then you'll have some answers then.