I had a rough week with staying off the rollercoaster of my feelings but I am feeling better. More of W's friends are coming out of the woodwork and telling me that she has went completely bonkers. At least I know now that it wasn't just me. I thought I must have lost touch with reality. I still had faults in our M and I did my best to explore and remedy the issues recently. I have learned a bit about myself since all this has started.
I have been keeping busy with my new job. It is nice to go home at 5pm and relax knowing that I am not expected to be responsible for taking care of client's actions 24/7 and that other people can handle the client's in crisis. I do care about them, don't get me wrong, but now I can work on me.
Just a note on how forgetful/fogged up the MLCer may be: My W announced that she plans on taking D1 to her parent's home over the 4th of July week for an entire week. What is apparently is not remembering is that we have a court date for divorce (which she filed for) on July 6 which is right in the middle of her vacation.
I am not going to remind her of the date because she is grown up and is responsible for herself. If she does not show up to court, it will definately be an indicator of her level of being able to be responsible and will probably make the custody issue a whole lot easier for me.
Well back to work for me! I got people to help.
This weekend was a hoot! First I got the pleasure of having ex-OM come to my workplace and eyeball me for most of my shift.
When I got home I asked God for a sign for what I should do. Should I go for full custody? Is W trustworthy? Not even 30 seconds after my prayer I got a text from STBXW.
She texted me telling me that her accountant (my MIL)told her that she would get all these tax breaks for having primary custody that I wouldn't get if I had it.
Then she informs me that she is going to put our child in a licensed daycare (without my consent mind you) because she claims that our daycare person and I are "drinking buddies." She tells me that the new daycare would "meet my high expecations". This is funny because I am fine with the daycare already provided. Daycare lady does a great job and D1 loves her. As for the drinking buddies claim, on Wed. nights I usually go out for my free burger and a beer at a local bar. I see friends there and talk. It so happens that one week the daycare lady came in with her friends and I chatted with her for 5 min. asking about D1's day. Now STBXW is making mountains out of molehills. The funny thing is that STBXW chose her as daycare in the first place. I want the best for my D1, but right now my money is stretched REALLY thin and the hike in daycare expense will break the bank.
After informing STBXW that OM was eyeballing me at work she said "well that's what you can expect for working at an unsavory place, you will come across unsavory people." This is the same woman that was living with this D-bag not 2 months ago!!! After realizing that STBXW had absolutely no care for my well being and that I cared for her's after her incident I decided that I can not trust her with anything, including our child's well being.
I texted her to not contact me unless it involved Sophie's care and that I was done with working on the relationship. I told her that any other communication can go to my lawyer.
The next day she texted about 10 time about dropping off D1 at my place, which we already had an agreed upon time.
Today I am going to my intial mediation meeting and then I will try to see my laywer to discuss my options with trying to obtain primary custody and possibly full custody.
Keep taking the high road. And I wouldn't believe anything aabout the taxes unless i heard it from an expert who isn't related to anyone of you!
I hope you get what you want!
I got done having my pre-mediation mtg. today. Apparently mediator told me that STBXW was glowing in her report about me as a father and a guy overall. WTF??? She told the mediator that she just wants everything split 50/50 and that's it.
I told the mediator that I was open to 50/50 but am currently struggling with going for full custody based on the past safety issues. I felt like I sounded like a controlling jerk, nut I want my daughter to be safe. As I have stated many times, I think that STBXW is a good mom, but I question her judgement with the people she hangs around and with whom she exposes D1.
Now I feel like the A-hole. I am hurt. I feel used. STBXW got the baby she always wanted, a home full of furniture that in order for me to enjoy I basically have to buy it back, and her parent's admiration for getting married and having a child.
I hate to admit it but there are times I think that she was just using me to get away from her past life and now that she has what she wants she is throwing me away like a piece of used tissue.
I am angry at her for that and probably more so myself for letting it happen. I know now that I will not be able to be in a relationship for a very long time, because this ruined my trust in others as well as myself.
TM, while your W said nice things and it is possible that she is doing so to look good in the eyes of others and therefore possibly attempting to manipulate you either directly (guilt, because she is being "nice") or guilt (because others might think you are being a jerk)...
What you told the mediator is appropriate.
And the mediator will sift through info on both sides to determine if your request is warranted or not... but the end result is... a mediator does not judge, nor do they set the end results... a mediator is supposed to help work the two of you through to an agreement...
which is why in high conflict, mediation can sometimes fail...
Today appears to be a brighter day so far. D1 is really beginning to learn quickly and is starting to string words and thoughts together. It melts my heart to hear her say "Tank you daddy and Feezy Pop Peeze." (Freezy pop please)
Yesterday when I picked her up from daycare she gave me the best and biggest hug I have ever received in my life. The kind where she clung tightly to my neck and wraped her whole little body around me and held on for almost 1 minute.
I am learning to enjoy the little time I have with her. It is a joy to be a witness to her world and how she sees things.
As for myself I am laying pretty low right now. I am finding that When I lay low, I get very creative and my guitar playing gets a whole lot better. So I am trying to use that time wisely.
Apparently according to mediator, the D can be finalized within a week or two of the mediation, so the D might be coming faster than I realized. I am slowly coming to terms with it. I am conflicted because on one hand I don't want the marriage to end, but on the other I want peace and at least this way I have something to back me up if she starts bickering over custody or money.
I still love STBXW very much but am starting to feel it is time to move on. I have very little hope for her and the path she has choosen. I only hope that D1 will not make the same decisions and will learn from this. I will do my best to be a good father and role model. That is all I can do at this point.
Keep up the good work! The most important thing in the world is the daughter and the gift of her love! Sounds like you understand that and take it serious!
ARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!!
STBXW just informed me that the new daycare will start June 18 and they want 2 weeks payment up front. The cruddy thing is that I get paid on the 1st of the month and I will have to not only pay our current daycare lady my half of the bill, but also pay the new daycare. I am already basically living off of Ramen; and mac and cheese due to all of these dang bills from atty., collection agency (from STBXW not paying medical bills for D1), past taxes, rent, etc.
When I explained to STBXW that it is really going to be a struggle this month to be able to afford this change because of the timing, She just said that "it was my period to pay and [she]could not afford paying for two periods in a row either."
So WTF? Why are we getting daycare that neither one of us can afford right now?
She better hope that she doesn't ever get in a bind, because right now the way I feel I may not be feeling so generous to help her out or be understanding as I have in the past.
I realize this is just a temporary setback and that in 2 years it won't matter, but right now I don't have enough income to afford all this and I have cut expenses to the bone. I have no cable, internet, nothing. No entertainment expenses to speak of. Even food has been cut to nothing, except for buying nutriuos foods for D1.
It just burns me how she is trying to act nice and says she's not being snippy and she's being friendly, but then is so cold at the same time.
Tested can you call this new day-care and work something out?
Don't say no, unless you have already tried.
I am in the process of contacting them for that option Jack. Thanks for the idea, though.
I just needed to vent, relax for a minute, and breathe to clear my head.
Good to see you posting again Jack!
Thanks.
I had to put down a boundary this weekend with STBXW. She has been texting me the last 2 weeks at 6:30 am with random info./ questions regarding D1 that aren't emergencies. They could have waited until later in the day and were waking me up.
I texted back with the request of please do not text me before 8 am unless it is an emergency regarding D1.
Of course in her same childish way she texted back that she would not bother me at all ever again.
Then that night when I responded to another text about D1 at 8 pm, she adds the barb, "well it is late now, so goodbye."
Then the next morning she texts at 6:30 am again!! I did not respond until after 8 am.
I would shut my phone off but I am afraid I would miss and emergency call from family or STBXW.
As for the daycare situation, I think I got it handled. It is good to have good friends. The daycare lady that currently is taking care of D1 will allow half the payment this month and half of it next month, which helps greatly. The new daycare was not so generous.
I am learning very quickly though how much I can be thrifty by buying certian supplies at the dollar store and making multiple meals with small rations of staples!
Hey Tested!
There was a series of books bases on the newsletter called "Tightwad Gazett". I got some great ideas on moey saving from her. Lentiles and rice casserole and using powdered milk in any recipie that call for milk are things I learned from her. Also to NEVER buy bisquick, always make your pancakes, waffles and bisquits from scratch.
About the texts: seems like a childish control issue. She is up, so you ought to be too!
Or, she's thinking if you're with a woman, she'll be interrupting you.
The Tightwad Gazette books are AWESOME - highly recommended. The author's name is Dacyzyn.
LOL! Me with another woman.. interuppting at 6:30 am!!! I like morning nookie once in a while but, usally the mornings don't work for me.
On the same note, I have been informed by the Department of Manhood that my timeline for getting some is almost expiring and soon they will reissue my V-card!
Have a good day!
BTW thanks for the Gazette recommendations. I'll have to check it out. Do they mention how to make cheap whiskey? :p
Honey
Water
Yeast
Drink the stuff the Vikings drank.
LOL Jack! I think I would rather drink the stuff the Giants drank!
Last night STBXW texted me @ 9:30 pm asking if D1 was alright.
I replied yes, why do you ask?
She says that her mom was freaking out out D1.
I asked her why would she freak out?
She then asked again if D1 was alright.
I replied yes again.
I then told STBXW that her mom can feel free to call me if she has concerns about D1's safety or would she like me to call her?
STBXW then quickly replied NO! Don't!
She then said that her grandma might be failing and that was probably the reason for the call.
I gave her my concern and prayers for her family.
Within 10 seconds she texts that the emergency was her sister, who miscarried their child.
I gave her my condolences for her and her family.
That was the end of the exchange. STBXW only told me about her sister's pregnancy 2 days ago and apparently she was due in Sept. I find it extremely weird and suspect that within seconds she would have the outcome of what happened when her mother would have notified her by phone not text about such a grave matter.
Did STBXW make all of it up including the pregnancy? Who knows. I guess it doesn't matter. I hope she at least made up the miscarriage for her sister's sake. I guess I'll know in Sept.
So that was my strange exchange of the day. STBXW still texting about D1's welfare everyday, so I have to respond, otherwise I get caught up in court on not communicating as a parent.
Talk about control issues.
Het TM,
Talk about control issues.
They can't control themselves, so they find other things/people to control. My W spirals into these control freak fits, since she is still in-house, it usually revolves around money (especially small amounts) and the kids....Calm, rationality is the only thing that seems to side track the train, at least in my experience, and you sound like you have that down perfectly.
Once (if?) they get control of themselves back, their need to control others dissipates.
Hang tough!
T^2
Heh, well you do have to let it ferment.
Mine is running at about 12% alcohol right now; almost time to bottle it...then invade Canada! : )
Got done with Mediation today. STBXW started up with sister's miscarriage when we got to the part where we were deciding about how to schedule D1s birthdays. I wanted to split it half and half every year and she wants the whole day every other year. She apparently had big plans to bring D1 to her parents home for her birthday this year because her sister would be coming home, but now those plans might change.
Mediation went well. I am not really happy with having to pay child support being that STBXW had a 2nd job and was making more than me, but then quit the job AFTER she filed. I am going to consult my L about that. The good news it is only $148 a month. The bad news is that money is really tight for a while due to my student loans that if I don't get into the student loan forgiveness program that I applied for this year, I will be a very tired person as I am going to have to pick up even more hours to make ends meet.
Other good news is that we are keeping our own debt, of which I have none, except for the student loans. Even the past creditor debt for D1's hospitals bills will be gone by next month!
I hate to nitpick over money, but when you don't have any and you are trying to keep your head above water with debt; are living off of mac and cheese and ramen (except for nutritious things for D1 of course) money begins to be a big deal.
At least I have good friends, a roof over my head, a job, and a Daughter who loves me.
Have you looked into food stamps Tested? Pride is cool, but doesn't keep your belly full, or your daughters. Speaking as someone who was on it? It is there for a reason.
Jack,
I make $40k gross a year. I make way to much for food stamps. The problem is my student loans. I pay 1K a month on them and that is the minimum payment. I am currently applying for a federal loan forgiveness through work, but don't know if I will be accepted until Sept. If that goes through (fingers crossed) I will be doing pretty good.
Adding the student loans with rent, and daycare, almost wipes out any money for other things needed, such as food, gas, etc.
I work 2 jobs already and about 60 hrs a week, so I am doing what I can.
I guess it just burns me that STBXW can quit her good paying job right after filing, uses community resources now because she is just under the income level, and then has me pay child support, when we have 50/50 custody and she was making as much as I was when she was working her job. She hardly has any debt comparably and she pretty much got all our possessions, while I had to scratch and claw just to get needed furniture and dishware, which can also be expensive.
Sorry just venting. I tried the meditation/ visualization of cutting the cord with STBXW and after I cut the cord all I got from her is her walking off and not looking back.
I need to go dark even more and detach. I am trying but it is hard to with D1 involved.
Tested,
It's ok to vent man. I wasn't aware of your situation fully...money wise.
And it isn't fair, like you I had two jobs and the lion's share of the bills.
As for the vizualization excercise? That in no way represents what will happen. It was supposed to be for you not being co-dependant with her.
I tried the vizualization...but I relaized that I had no such cord attached to my wife. : ) We are together by choice. Plus and more importantly, belly buttons freak me out.
It is impossible to go dark when kids are involved.
Dim? Talks about just bills and your daughter's well being? Not impossible.
Vent here, I have thicker skin than you can imagine, there is nothing you can say that will upset me, long term. : )
STBXW must be really rarin' for the D, as she is already talking about when I am to pay her for child support and asking for head of household status for tax reasons so she can get an earned income tax credit.
I told her that the child support matters will be determined when the papers are actually written and signed and not before. As for the head of household status, I told her that I think it should go with who is claiming D1 that year as we are alternating.
I am sure I am getting dirty looks from across the city as she reads the e-mail. She sure scowled when I got her child support request reduced because of her income earning ability and quitting her job after filing and prior to the D.
I am feeling a lttle better right now. I just realized that some of the reason that I am so angry is that I feel a lot of loss; loss of m spouse; loss of time with D1; loss of things that used to be; loss of the "ideal" marriage I thought we had; loss of personal posessions that I gave up to be with STBXW and now loss of possessions that replaced the old personal posessions; which in a sense I get a feeling of a loss of self.
I know that I am a good human being and know what I want in life. I know that posessions and title's don't define who I am or make me worthless. But it hurts to lose them.
Maybe it is just grieving the past.
I need to get through this in the present thought to pave the way for the future. MY future and my D1's future.
Just in case, and I hope this helps you otherwise ignore it : )
[quote = from someplace else]
Internal Revenue Service Publication 501 provides a worksheet on page seven to determine if you paid half the cost of the household's upkeep. In completing the worksheet, it asks you to complete the amounts that you paid and compare that to amounts that you provided for these expenses.
In my opinion, if you earn money from sources other than child support you would count this towards the household expense test. For example, in completing the worksheet, if your total household expenses were $10,000 and you have income from sources other than child support of at least $5,001, then you would be considered as providing more than half of the costs of maintaining the home, which qualifies you to file as head of household.
[/quote]
Jack always makes me laugh. The belly button thing made me laugh. And then stop. Damn it Jack..
TM, the money issues? Keep working at the options. You can't change what is but you can work towards getting yourself financially right. Believe me, it goes by faster than you think and it has a way of coming together. It [censored] getting there, but once there it isn't so bad.
My friend once mentioned to me about the finances what she thought. She went bankrupt during her divorce. She had to give him lots of money. He married his OW minutes after the divorce was final. It was ugly
But she mentioned to me to keep the house even if I had to financially get porked. She was right. She mentioned to work the finances out because it wasn't forever. It was just right now (then). She was right.
It'll pass, even if it doesn't feel like it right now. It may suck, but long term you'll be glad you worked out the finances. And just when you think you have nowhere else to turn, you'll realize money isn't very important and a new option will present itself.
Hang in there.
AJ
HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
Have some CAKE!
Thank you for the birthday wishes. I plan to go to Paridiso for my free lunch and try to hit up the free specials in town tonight. I'll get to eat for free today and get out for a little bit. I will also be sure to have some cake!
the cake is a lie.
...
anyone?
It is possible that the cake is just a form of manipulation... or blatant sarcasm that one cannot HAVE their cake... and EAT it...
Unless it has some deeper meaning regarding a birthday...
but...
we should not mind read...
the cake is a lie.
...
anyone?
It looks like a REAL picture to me!
And the wishes are REAL too!
Don't forget your free Grand Slam from Denney's. Guess that could be your minutes 'til midnight meal...... after partying all day and night!
Happy Birthday!
These are not the cakes you are looking for....
?
hmmmmm....
cheesecakeless tunnels... ???
Wendy,
The only Dennys in town closed 2 months ago due to what the owner reported as "not having enough people to fully staff the place and keep employment." Don't know if that meant they weren't paying them enough to keep help or what but I was looking forward to the grand slam for a while back.
I will stop by the local bar for a free B-day drink, but other than that I look forward to a quiet night. So far all my co-workers have sent me a muffin, card, and an ice cream bar. I share a birthday with a psychiatrist on staff so we have been celebrating together.
I spent a wonderful weekend with my D1. We spent 2 solid days together and played at the park, roughhoused, and watched cartoons.
This weekedn's been rough for STBXW I guess. She called on Sat. morning telling me she was sick and was probably food poisoning, but did not want to chance giving D1 the flu (she had D1 at the time.) She called all her friends, who would not watch D1 for her and was angling for me to take her for the day/night. I informed her that I had to work within an hour, but if she was still feeling bad after my shift, I would be happy to pick up D1. STBXW took me up on it.
The next day all I got were texts from STBXW asking about how D1 was doing.
Yesterday I got a text telling me to call her because it was urgent. Apparently STBXW just found out that her new apartment fell through and that she might not have a place to stay by the end of the week. The old apartment has already been rented out sao she needs to be out. She was sobbing. I listened and assured her that D1 would be ok as D1 always has a place to stay with me. STBXW thanked me for listening and asked that I bring D1 to her workplace so she could see her for comfort.
I complied with the request and STBXW thanked me repeatedly even touching my hand several itmes, which is more interaction than we have had in 7 months.
I am very skeptical about if what she is saying is true or if this is another ploy regarding divorce preceedings. All this seems very coincidental that something bad happens everytime I am about to get back on my feet again and detach.
I guess we'll see what this weekend holds as I will have D1 for 5 days straight, as STBXW is supposed to be moving.
Funny how that goes, pushmepullu the official animal of MLC!
So true, Wendy.
TM, keep detached, but be there for D1. She is all that counts at this point. Your W has to earn her way back, if that's what she's angling for. I would also be very suspicious ... just when she needs you, then she's willing to cry on your shoulder. Where's the OM? Here's where one sees that the grass isn't greener on the other side. In fact, it seems to be downright brown and dead.
Wishing you well. And have fun with D1 this week.
I'm glad you were there for your daughter. Now, the question that is sitting on the table is this...if the new apt. fell through and the old one is now rented....where is she going to go after she's packed up? Now, wouldn't it be a hoot if she wheedles her way back into staying w/you until she can find another place to live? I do not put anything past the mlcer.
BTW, mlcers have a sixth sense that alerts them when we are pulling away and are getting on w/our lives....
OM is gone.. and going to prison for beating up STBXW and interrupting her emergency call.
WOW! Now STBXW calls sobbing and begging me to let her stay at my apartment on the couch for a couple of weeks until she has a place to stay. She apparently has no friends that will put up with her.
I told her that I do not want to live with anyone who isn't committed to a relationship.
I told her I don't want to confuse D1 anymore than she might already be.
I told that I had to think about it and would let her know my decision by tomorrow. She kept begging after that!
I even let her know that everytime I have stuck my neck out for her I have gotten it chopped off. She appologized for that and said she didn't realize it.
When I finally ended the call, she asked if she could come over to talk after she was done with work. I was hesitant, but said that would be ok. I don't want to shut doors completely, but I don't want her to stomp all over me either.
Before I hung up she said I was a really good person about 5 times.
I don't know if I can trust her as far as I can throw her right now.
Any thoughts about her staying on the couch? We are getting divorced mind you.
first and foremost take care of your D's welfare. You can show her compassion in her sitch, but don't let her dictate the rules. Maybe you can start thinking of some boundaries now. She's very close to hitting rock bottom.
OMG! She did it! She asked to stay over at your place on the couch! Why am I not surprised by this? She still looks to you to rescue her or fix her problems for her when she doesn't have an op waiting in the wings. The only person that you need to be concerned about at this time is your little girl.
If you opt to help her out, be sure to set some boundaries and stick to them. I would hate to see you burned once again for being a kind and generous person. BTW, if you do allow her to stay, don't make it easy for her...she will need to pitch in around your place and share in whatever expenses that she incurs while she is there.
BTW, I did step up to the plate when my xh moved out and he had no place to go for one night and I allowed him to stay. I never regretted it because it did show him that I did not lower myself to his current standards. Did he appreciate it after the fact? Nope. But I slept better knowing that I "turned the other cheek" and helped someone out.
The problem that I have is that this is going to be weeks. She will use this time to snoop around (not like I have anything to hide, but the mystery of being dim will be gone).
I am not worried about others coming to the apartment or partying, because I will not have it.
I will continue on with my life as planned, but I wonder if STBXW will use me going out for a night when I am not supposed to have D1 against me in the divorce proceedings. This is kinda like having a spy over for a few weeks to freely peek around while at war.
I will set firm boundaries for sure IF I do it. Half of me wants to because I hate seeing anyone in need, the other half wants her to twist in the wind. I would hope that she learns a lesson, but that is not mine to teach.
My instincts in this matter would be to say, no. She has put you through enough already. But, she is the mother of your D1. So, kindness might stand you in good stead later. But, as everyone else is telling you, make sure you place some extreme boundaries in place. For instance, she can buy the groceries in the time she's there. Think very hard on this ... it may be confusing to D1, but children that age are resilient and may not understand what's happening.
Sounds like she will have to really earn some trust back. And, I don't believe anything she's saying ... she's begging and complimenting you because she's in a bind. Understand that, and you will better be able to keep your boundaries, and detachment in place.
If you're worried about her spying, then one of the boundaries is that she is never to be alone without you in the house. Make sure you have a lock on your bedroom door, and keep your computer in there. Let her know that you do not trust her, but that she is the mother of your child, and that is the only reason that you are even thinking about having her in your space. And, do not, be your D1's babysitter, although that will look good to a judge, if she's off partying when she should be looking after her child.
Just some thoughts.
Tested,
Her coming back because she has no other options is gerneally not the best way for them to come back...even for a few nights or weeks.
And so saying stranger things have happened.
Be strong, be strong, oh and be strong.
Do not confuse any aspect of why she is currently there.
I am a big proponet of the LBS's deeds making up for their words.
I am also a HUGE proponent of the Spouse's deeds meaning far more than their words when they are around.
Do not listen to her...but watch her and she her actions. Understand?
Actions over time btw, not actions to get you do do something in the moment. Over time.
How long has she known that the other apt fell through? Generally you know long before the end of the month. Juen 1st is this Friday...could knowing this information be the reason for her illness over the weekend? Maybe she's know for quite some time and just didn't know how to approach you and decided to have you take your little one for a while and then bring her to her work place.
I agree w/the others and definitely password your computer and lock down anything that you do not want her to have access to. Her actions will tell you more than her words (as Jack as pointed out).
Good luck!
Thanks for all the advice. I don't have to worry about a computer because I have not touched the one I have because I do not have internet. I use my internet at work for all my interneting needs.
As for leaving her home alone, I would have no choice as Saturday nights I deal cards as a side job and need to work to pay bills. That means she would be home with D1.
Some boundaries I have come up with is:
1. She has 1 month to come up with an apartment.
2. Half of the rent will be paid up front.
3. Half of the electricity will be paid up front.
4. She will buy her half of the groceries. I will buy my half.
5. She will clean up after herself and do her share of the housework.
6. We will keep our respective days of being in charge of D1's care.
7. Absolutely no friends/boyfriends/partying/whatever over. I reserve the right to evict immediately if there is even a hint of this rule being broken.
8. There is a 2 am curfew and coming home smashed is not accepted. If she can't be back by that time, then she can stay elsewhere.
9. No eggs in the non-stick frying pan. (Code for no nookie!)
Right now I am trying to border the line of being cordial/professional and compassionate about this.
If you have any thoughts please feel free to share.
You've put some serious thought into your list. I think it's a good one.
Update about last night's visit. I will preface this story right away by saying that I am not getting my hopes up as I foresee her not being fully cooked yet, but possibly some improvement.
STBXW texted me after her work asking if I wanted her to bring anything over. I replied that I don't really have anything for entertaining, so if she wanted something to drink basically I have whole milk or water.
She offered to bring supper over. I replied that I was full from eating with D1 already.
STBXW comes over with a 12 pk. of Coors Light (my favorite beer) and a case of Dt. Coke (again favorite). After a couple minutes of uncomfortableness, and her checking out the pad, we crack beers and she asks me how my new job is going. I reply and inquire about hers.
She then informs me that she has noticed that I have lost weight (50 pounds in 7 months, and now she notices!)
After smoking a cigarette, which she provided, she shows me the apartments she is looking at tomorrow, but won't be ready until next month. One of them is in the next state. (We live on a bordertown so it is right next door).
I explained to her about how that may affect custody issues as well as her assistance, as she is not supposed to take D1 out of state. I made to make sure that I was not threatening her, just informing her of the law and that I had know clue how that would play out in court or how it may affect may legal rights.
She claimed she had no clue about knowing about the law, which I could see as true (She usually is uninformed about a lot of the things she gets herself into).
She then tells me that she finally broke down to MIL and told her EVERYTHING, about the cheating, getting beat up, losing apartment, etc. She said that she had a good talk with her and decided that she needs to make an appointment to see her doctor to up her antidepressants and she plans to see a counselor. This all came from her and not from me talking to her. I just listened.
I did not tell her either way what to do, which is a first. (YAY!)
We cracked a couple of more beers had a couple of more cigarettes on the balcony and talked about how much D1 has grown and shared parenting secrets.
It was a lot like having old W back, but she appeared a little more responsible.
When we decided to call it a night, she again asked if I would call her tomorrow with my decision. I told her I would, but need some time to think about it, so it won't be 1st thing in the morning.
She left the beer and pop for me and said happy belated birthday. At the door, she hugged me. A big bear hug (by her)that lasted at least a minute. She actually was sniffing my hair too. Then she looked into my eyes and kissed me. Not a peck mind you, more like a thanks for the 2nd date type of kiss.
She then asked me again to call her tomorrow regarding the decision.
Minutes later she texted "Thanks for a wonderful evening." "I forgot about your type of sense of humor
." "Have a wonderful night and a good sleep!"
When I wished her the same, she replied "I can't sleep, staring at the four walls." "It's not bad, mind is just racing."
So, I am hope that what she is saying is true, but not really believing it. I beleive that she is seriously thinking things over if her mind is racing... and I believe that it is as she had problems with this the last year we were living together.
Any thoughts? I am not reading into this at all. She is probably just trying to manipulate. I am going to start paying attention to her actions more closely though.
Snod. Thanks!
I actually saw this coming (her needing to come back) a long time ago and kinda planned for it. The way she was going, it was just a matter of time before she strug herself up good. I am a negotiator at heart and have been known to be a "visionary." I usually see the big picture and try to plan for the different senarios, just to be safe. But like everyone else, I get caught up in the small things at times and my vision gets clouded, so I come to consult with others.
That is part of the reason that she left me. We were going through a rough time with job schedules, having D1, and having date time limited (the classic 1st year child struggle). The thing was that I saw that the problem was temporary, but she didn't and she thought I was not validating her point of view because at the time I could not change my job schedule, nor could we get babysitting help to have date nights. The date nights we did included baby and were not romantic enough for W at the time.
Any way got to go to a meeting.
TM,
I would take what she has shared w/you w/a grain of salt. Talk is cheap and actions do speak louder than words. Let's see if she makes the medical appointment. Mlcers tend to think out loud so, sit back, watch the show and take it one step at a time.
I am glad that you pointed out about the "out of state" custody issue. She needs to be aware of it when looking for a new apt.
I am going to caution you about one thing...if she thinks that she can manipulate you w/kisses and flirting, etc., she will do it. You'll need to toughen your skin a bit, because she will try it to get what she wants...attention and whatever else along the way.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice Snod. I am trying to take everything with a grain of salt.
She did mention when she was begging to stay with me that she would do anything...
I am very aware about the manipulation, but you are right, I am going to have to nip that in the butt.
It's hard to tell whether what I am doing is right and I am getting positive change, or if it just another way to manipulate.
I guess her staying may be a test of some sort to see where she is at in this stage. I do not expect anything, save the boundaries that I set be followed, or out the door she goes.
I agree with Snodderly. Another thought occurred to me ... if she comes to stay with you, what would the legalities of that be? Would the law see that as R? You might not be able to get her out again. Just wondering.
Again, talk is cheap. Think long and hard about allowing her back in, unless you are willing to have her refuse to leave. If that makes sense.
I like the boundaries you came up with.
BTW, do you think she is truly in MLC? Or, just a WAW with depression and unable to handle a baby and M, and just thought running away was a good idea at the time. She seems young for MLC, but of course, it does happen. What was she like before the baby came? Or, is that too much rehash?
Just wondering.
Being,
I have wondered that from day one too. I do definately beleive she has some sort of identity crisis as she seems very lost. She did this same type of thing in college, when her depression was bad, according to her mother.
It seems to be a recurring theme in her life that she messes up and someone comes to clean up after her mess. Her parents have done it and I have done it.
I am hoping that this time I will still be able to hold her accountable, show compassion, use the opportunity to listen and enforce boundaries, and be the person that anyone would be a fool to leave.
Just got back from L. She thinks it's a little nuts to have STBXW stay, but said it was up to me. As for the legalities, she told me to put the rules in writing and have her sign it, then make multiple copies and send her one.
L thinks that I am probably "too nice of a guy." She asked why I settled for 50/50 custody. I responded that I didn't know if I had enough to get primary and didn't want to get into a length battle. L said that now with STBXW needing to stay on my couch, she basically screwed herself because her poor judgement has virtually made her homeless. If I let go of the chain, she basically would be dog food.
I did get L to request STBXW's tax return as her claim of income seems quite low and I think I am getting soaked for child support. Also the out of state thing is gonna get hairy so L is going to stipulate that my residence be the primary for educational purposes.
I sure hope I am doing teh right thing by showing compassion for STBXW. I guess if it bites me in the butt, I will definately learn from it and will know once and for all where she stands.
TM,
You've done everything that you can to ensure that what you are doing will not create additional issues w/the divorce. Your wife is homeless as of Friday and needs a place to stay. I agree w/your lawyer, type up the boundaries, both of you sign and date them and then provide copies to your lawyer. Your wife will then understand that this is the way it is going to be.
I hope that you have a strong constitution, because I do think that at some point, she may try to get in bed w/you...I hope that I am wrong on that, but there's something about the way she has gone about this whole situation in the last few days that raises red flags for me.
Good luck!
Thanks Snodd,
That thought has also crossed my mind (about STBXW trying to get into bed).
But over the last 9 months that we have been apart I have had a great while to think about what my position is regarding IF she wanted to reconcile.
Basically, we would have to start all over again.
1. That means no living together until leases are up (at least 1 yr.)
2. During that 1 year, I would accept dating exclusively only. This would give us a chance to reconnect.
3. Counseling would most likely be a must, for her individually and us as a couple. (not ruling out individual for me either).
4. All former flings must have ABSOLUTELY no contact with, including Facebook. Any hints of this and it is donesville for me.
5. She would have to agree to "trust with verification" and be understanding with it.
6. All issues regarding the A and previous issues leading to it would have to be discussed and resolved as much as they possibly could be resolved.
7. We would not live together until she/we have shown that there is a full committment to being faithful and to each other, to a reasonable degree. (Can't control everything but not bringing her back in just to leave again and further damage D1 and myself)
8. She would have to learn to fix her own messes.
9. She would have to aquire an internal locus of control as evidenced by the extinction of the phrase for example: "My baby is my life."
Those are just some of the things I have come up with. They may sound strict, but I am determined not to make the same mistake again with being too passive.
These are the things that it takes to have a relationship with me. It is not meant to control her, as she has a choice of with whom she wants to have a relationship.
Tested,
This is going to sound..wierd, maybe.
As I agree with these, I absolutely do...
and so saying...how badly do you want her to fail or how badly do you want to move on?
I agree with these terms, boundaries, ultimatiums even. But I wonder if these aren't the rules she dashes herself upon so you can move forward.
Posting a lot today.
I know why I feel like I am being wishy washy on whether or not to let STBXW twist in the wind or not. It still comes down to is it MLC or not for me.
If it is MLC, then I chance her cake eating; I get hurt (if I have expectations, which I don't at this point); and she keeps hiding in the tunnel.
If it isn't MLC and is just a WAW, then I have missed a crucial point of showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her.
Either way I think that I am being a person only a fool would leave. I just need to get over the fact that I could be getting used and that would be her issue and only makes me a better person for still giving her an opportunity to earn a little trust after all that has happened.
It is also a chance to show my OWN changes and practice my OWN boundaries.
A good friend once told me that the way to true grace is through humiliation. I need to do this for myself, not just for her.
If it is MLC, then I chance her cake eating; I get hurt (if I have expectations, which I don't at this point); and she keeps hiding in the tunnel.
If it isn't MLC and is just a WAW, then I have missed a crucial point of showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her.
TM, I don't see a difference here really...MLC or not, "showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her." ... guarantees that YOU have taken the higher road...
Just my opinion, YMMV...
T^2
Jack,
I know what you are saying. I don't want her to fail, but I also don't want her to give me a half a$$ed effort, if this is something she wants.
Studies have shown that high expectations are healthy for marriages and that they are also one of the key factors to a healthy marriage (Gottman).
That being said, I don't think my expectations for a relationship with me is too high.
I expect be trusted and have someone that is trustworthy.
I expect monogamy.
Although we all need help at times, I expect that my partner would be able to solve some of their own problems and be moderately centered.
I am not asking for perfection. I am asking for someone who wants to be in a relationship with me to respect me as I would respect them.
I am not perfect, Lord knows, but I think in order for a relationship to blossom, she has things to prove and we both have to grow.
She dug the hole, and I am giving her opportunities to climb out, but am not going to do the work for her. That is more than most would do.
Like I said these expecations would be if she wanted to resume the marriage.
The past marriage did not work, due also to my passiveness, and I refuse to make the same mistakes again (as much as I am able).
You raise a very valid point though and I have and still do question if I am setting her up to fail. Maybe later I will be a little wiser and decide that the rules are not needed for me. But this is where I am right now, in this moment. I continue to work on me as that is all I can do.
Oh no...rules are needed. Boundaries ARE needed.
hard to explain, I don't really know you and I do not want to come across as thinking I know everything or hell man even upsetting you.
I see those boundaries and I agree with them...
But they feel... different; they feel brittle and sharp.
The past marriage did not work, due also to my passiveness, and I refuse to make the same mistakes again (as much as I am able).
It is possilbe to go too far in the other direction as well.
My job as far as I am concerned is to make you think, not tell you what to do. If this is not a concern on your part...then I'm dead wrong right? Not the first time either.
Just my feeling I got from reading your list...a list which I again agree with...which makes this concern seem weird..
When my wife decided to come back? I held her to task, she also had to prove it to me, I knew there were going to be stumbling points. I couldn't be inflexible on every issue I had.
I am not saying it was ok for her to keep sleeping with OM or even call him, but I understood that he would call her, and she would have no control over that. Even after she told him not too. In those cases? Getting upset at her for that...that was my bad.
TM,
In your talk with your W last night did she give you any indication that she wanted to try and reconcile? Or is this just a desperate woman who messed up and needs a place to stay for a bit?
All I'm saying is, don't get ahead of yourself with rules, regulations and expectations until you figure out what her intentions are. I would have another set of boundaries if she's just staying short term, like paying her own way.
From what you write of her actions it sounds like she is trying to manipulate you into letting her crash for a while. I'm not saying that it's wrong to want to help her out, but red flags go up when she is kissing and flirting with you now when she needs something from you.
How did she treat you while you were together when she wanted something? Was she manipulative then?
You've come so far. Just protect your heart, You're a stronger, wiser man, now. I know you'll figure this out and do what's best for you and your D.
Good luck!
Thanks for the posts Jack and SA!
First, I am not angry or offended and I am sorry if my post came out that way. It really has made me think.
Jack- I know what you are saying about the rules being rigid and I would expect some stumbling, I am talking about the "finished product", if their is such a thing. I also reserve the right to change my mind as circumstances arise, but for the most part I am trying to create core boundaries and rules for myself as to what I will accept and what I won't.
This is still a rough draft and work in progress.
I did think about it this morning and it came to me that right now I don't think I love the woman W is right now. I love who she used to be and the glimpses of old W that come through. As for "the rules", I realized that I need to accept and love W for who she is, not for what I want her to be or who she was.
That is hard to do due to the hurt and pain caused and lack of trust. I am willing to give it my best, all out effort, but alas it takes 2 to tango. Maybe that is me loving her. I don't know as I am again left confused.
SA- She probably is desperate and I am very sensitive and aware of possible manipulation at this point. WAW or MLC I guess it doesn't matter, I think that we both still need to figure ourselves out before going further in the relationship. Not a move back, but kinda sideways in the short view, but in the long view it is moving forward.
I am very removed at this point emotionally from W's actions as I really don't feel all that attracted to her at this point, flirting and all.
I am thinking that she really wants to be friends and wants forgivness without asking for it (not that she has to, because I have already forgiven her for the most part.. still working on it). I think she wants the relationship we had, but not to be married and I can't do that. So I will inquire about it the next time she tries to kiss me again. I don't want to poke the feral cat, but hey, this needs to be addressed.
As for when we were together, when she wanted something she would ask, beg, and plead, pretty much badger me like a 5 yr. old until I gave in. Sometimes she would use emotional blackmail with "If you really loved me you would...", which now with her UGLY side has turned into the guilt ripping "You're trying to take my D away!!!" and "You are F'ing with my life!!!"
I am not seeing this ugly side anymore, which makes me curious to what is going to come my way in the near future.
Last night, STBXW called me regarding my decision and I agreed that she is welcome to stay provided she agreed to the requests provided. She agreed and said that she expected as much regarding rent, utilities, and boundaries regarding having friends over.
She then asked me to have dinner with her and D1. I told her I had plans and she asked if I would cancel them. I then backslid and said I would go to dinner with the two, but I was paying my own way.
We had a nice dinner. D1 had a temper tantrum basically the whole time and the whole resturant pretty much laugh at it. D1 is such a drama queen. When we left STBXW stopped with D1 and I said goodbye to both of them and kissed D1 on the cheek and it looked like STBXW expected a kiss too. I did not oblige and wished her a good night.
She text me later that night with "Is nice to have a friendly relationship with you again." I did not respond.
This morning at 7 am, she calls because D1 grabbed her phone and said "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!" So I talked to D1 who kept saying "Hi Daddy!"
Anyway, I expect nothing at this point from her regarding the R and I am keeping my nose to myself and my own growth. It seems like I just see her different behavior and wonder why. I guess time will tell.
Time will tell. Lots of time.
AJ
AJ,
I agree...time will tell.
Well STBXW is still calling and texting at least 3x a day. The most recent one was a picture of D1 smiling and standing in STBXW's apartment. The funny thing is that in the background I can clearly see that NOTHING is packed. Even shelves are still on the wall.
I thought she was supposed to be out by yesterday, but I guess I was wrong. One would think though that everything would be packed up as I am watching D1 this weekend so STBXW could have been settled in her new place (that was the plan a month ago anyway).
Wierd. Just plain weird. (shakes head)
Actually, it's not weird at all....
You don't suppose that she is planning to whine to you about not being packed in the hopes that you will go over and help her to do it?
That could happen, although I doubt it, because I am watching D1, whicl she is supposedly moving. Her parents are supposed to help her move, so I am sure she will whine to them, or they will chew her out for not being prepared.
Either way she is on her own with that mess. In our 2 moves together, she never lifted a finger. Time for her to do her own dirty work.
The weird thing for me is that I thought she had to be out by the 1st of the month. Coincidence or not, there is a "Bikers for Boobies" motorcycle rally on June 2, which is the day I agrred to take care of D1 for STBXW so she could "settle in", which to me meant that she would have been moved by that time. I guess not. It would not surprise me if she went to that rally.
The good news for me is that I will have the whole weekend with D1 and will have fun things planned. If the weather is nice we might even do the splash park!!!
The splash park sounds like a lot of fun! I'm sure you and your little one will enjoy it.
I'm w/you...she may have gone to the rally and is counting on her parents and/or you to pack her up once again. I'm glad to see that you are stepping away from that one and really, it's time she grew up and became a responsible individual. (Wishful thinking.)
Enjoy your weekend w/your little one.
Dang! Your STBXW is weird. I wonder, just a thought, because I have known people with this issue, and she is showing some of the symptoms ... could she have bipolar disorder, by any chance, rather than in MLC? It doesn't always manifest in sexual misbehavior, but often it does. Also, confusion. Here's a website with information:
editBeingMe no outside websites please. try looking up:
Understanding Bipolar Disorder Signs, Symptoms, and Treatment of Manic Depression
-JackThis is just a thought, and I don't want to be seen as diagnosing someone, but one should try and think of everything you can to see why a mother would break the M when her child is so young. I often wonder if this is the case, rather then MLC, with a lot of the younger WAS's on this forum.
Either way, it would be a good thing for her to get into counseling/psychotherapy, for her sake and the sake of your D1.
Have fun with D1 this weekend. Hope the weather shines for you.
You may also want to look into Histrionic Personality Disorder and BorderlinePD...my W had/has HPD traits all along, but with Postpartum Depression years ago and now with MLC, they got turned up to "11"...
I actually was thinking a possibility of Bipolar/ Borderline personality/ Histrionic, but she really has identity issues. She places her self worth in outside things.
Update-
I called her to update her that the new daycare was paid for the first 2 weeks and she was using the words Hon and Dear, which she hasn't done sice our honeymoon phase. (Just noticing, not looking into it)
Then she called an hour later and left a message informing me that her apartment will be ready Monday and she won't be needing to stay with me after all!
She thanked me profusely for the opportunity and said I am a great guy and a good man.
Now I guess we'll see how nice she still thinks I am because I will need to try to claim primary household regarding D1s education district because she will be moving to a different state and STBXW's town has a crappy school system.
but she really has identity issues. She places her self worth in outside things.
Same with my W, its a trait of HPD, etc...
Great news on the apt, though not the hassle of getting primary residence.
Oops, didn't know that, Jack. Wasn't so when I joined, as far as I can remember. Oh well! Noted.
She sure moved out quickly on the apt. I find it very interesting that 1) she hadn't begun to pack; 2)she just mentioned the apt. that is across the state line; and 3)did she even "hear" you when you advised her to speak to her lawyer about the state line issue regarding custody issues?
I find it hard to believe that they had an apt. that quickly, but it's been a long time since I rented one...I just find this all very odd.
However, leave the monster at the door this weekend and enjoy your time w/your little one.
Apparently W moved in to her new apt. on Friday, not monday. Then she tells me that she would like me to go through our stuff anf take what I would like from her storage (after she said she wouldn't need storage after all).
It seems like she can't get her stories straight.
I had a beautiful weekend with D1 and played the whole time. STBXW and IL has D1 for lunch on Sunday for 2 hours, which I didn't mind because I had errands to run. STBXW asked me the night before to come with to lunch, even calling me "hun", but I respectfully declined. I feel real uncomfortable around the IL right now. They are starting to seem really phony to me.
Now STBXW is inviting me to check out her apartment next week and swim in their pool. I really don't want to do it right now, so I probably won't. I am working on detaching and GALing more.
So that was my week. Just sitting on the curb and watching her spin. I am starting to wonder if I should post her anymore, as it appears she may not be MLC, but just the Queen of the Drama Queens.
TM,
She's in crisis because she's flip flopping all over the place. She can't remember what she's told you and that's starting to make her look a bit like a drama queen, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she needs to grow up and accept responsibility for her actions.
My sense of the situation, from your posting, is that she doesn't know how to pull you back into the dance. First she is crying about a place to live, you agree to allow her to move in and then magically she has a new place and moves on Friday. Now she's wanting you to go through stuff and take whatever you would like. The final bait trap is inviting you over to see her new place and swim in the pool. She's trying ever angle to get you interested in what she's doing and you aren't biting. She can't figure out why you aren't jumping through hoops to be w/her. BTW, she's not done trying.
I'm glad you had a great time w/the little one. I'm sure you did lots of fun things. I understand what you mean about the ILs.
Keep up the good work!
When I said Queen of the Drama Queens, I meant that this is nothing new. She has always been like that since I knew her, but now it is like she is trying to make drama by making really bad choices.
I now realize the strong possibility that she may have a Histrionic personality or many traits. I don't believe that will ever change.
I agree that she needs to grow up. I have been saying this since day one that I met her. I guess I figured that she would grow up over time especially once things got more serious. I guess so far I was wrong. But that is only in the matter of MY timeline, not hers or what is going to be, if ever. I have accepted that now.
It is a strong possibility that she does have the histrionic personality. She is exhibiting a few of the traits, but are they more pronounced now that she's in crisis? Do you recall if something happened to her as a child or young adult? Are her parents the type of people that didn't pay her any attention or affirmation?
Miracles do happen and who knows...living on her own w/o you there to rescue her, just might be what she needs.
That's exactly it Snod. She was always the "fat" sister who syas that her little sister (track star, graduate school grad., etc) was always her parent's favorite. Whether this is perceived or real is not important I guess because it is her reality.
She has acted very childlike when she would not get what she wanted (slaming doors, pouting, etc). She even was having a fit during her sister's wedding, probably because it overshadowed her pregnancy, and basically feigned sickness to not be at the reception (and she was the maid of honor!)
I think that some of her childishness is coming out even more, but I also see times she is very responsible, or at least acts like she is.
She even said during her last visit that she was a little jealous when she heard her sister was pregnant (which is now a miscarriage) because she can't have anymore children. The claim about not being able to have more children is her claim, she has not been told that by a doctor.
I realized last night that our marriage was in trouble from day one because I was avoiding conflict and she would steamroll me with this type of behavior until I either gave in, or she would resent me for "not being caring."
I realize that I could always have room for improvement in the area of listening, but I think I shut off basically because this behavior was so intimidating/annoying/ frustrating to deal with. (not an excuse, just an explanation).
Have you thought of trying to reward her good behavior? For example, if she is acting like a responsible adult maybe saying "wife, I think you did a great job with that". Sometimes we can help them just a bit by recognizing that they are in need of some attention. Just like a child, reward only good behavior or behavior that you feel is worthy of recognition.
There are some that like to stay in Peter Pan's world and I surely hope that she's not one of them.
Just my two cents worth this evening.
I've got to keep coming back to the gastric bypass. It's well documented that some people, after bypass surgery, develop other addictions, like sex addictions or compulsive gambling. And even without that, gastric bypass can result in any number of vitamin deficiencies, which can cause depression or other mental illness. Does she get B12 shots, take lots of vitamins, do the things she ought to do to keep her nutrition sound? Has she had any tests of her vitamin status lately?
Then again, she might just have a personality disorder of some type. But in the setting of gastric bypass surgery, I'd sure wonder about a physiologic cause.
For instance, here's the start of an article in Time a year ago: People who undergo gastric bypass surgery for weight loss have more than twice the risk of developing alcoholism, compared with those who have gastric banding surgery, preliminary research finds. This line of inquiry could shed new light on the causes of alcoholism — and how weight loss could prompt some people to switch from food addiction to substance misuse.
The new study, which relied on data from a Swedish health database and was presented at a recent meeting on digestive diseases, examined the records of 12,277 patients who had undergone obesity surgery between 1980 and 2006. They were compared to 122,270 people in the general population, matched for age and gender.
Researchers led by Dr. Magdalena Plecka Ostlund of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm looked at treatments for psychiatric disorders before and after surgery. They found that obese patients were at greater risk for hospitalization for depression and other mood disorders both before and after surgery, compared with people in the general population. After surgery, the study found, patients’ risk of inpatient alcoholism treatment increased — but more so in a subset of patients. Those who had gastric bypass were 2.3 times more likely to require such care for alcoholism than those who had the banding procedure.
KML,
I have also thought of that theory, but apparently MIL said she was acting like this before her gastric bypass. I am pretty sure her pregnancy raised some issues for her. She does have an addictive personality, I am sure of that.
As for vitamins, she claims that she takes them, but just like her anti-depressants, she never took them consistently when I was with her.
Snod-
I still praise her when she shows responsible behavior. Sadly, it seems like it is never enough for her though. She has even said that she knows she is messed up, but has no hope/motivation to do anything about it.
Last night was the first time in 3 weeks that I did not receive a text or call from her. It was actually a little refreshing, but I realized I was waiting for it to happened and was a little surprised when it didn't. Not dissappointed, just surprised.
Drop your expectations back downt to zero. I think that all of the communication in the last week, it kind of set you up, even though you might not have been fully aware of it.
Her attention right now is setting up her apt. and working. That's good...it gives you a break from the insanity.
This morning D1 and I were playing anything you can do I can do better. Then she looked me straight in the eye and pooped in her diaper! Well played... Well played...
That's too funny. Definitely well played!
STBXW is still trying to reach out. Yesterday she texted me saying that I am welcome to use her computer to burn movies. This was out of the blue and not asked for by me.
Today she called me, first appologizing for calling when it wasn't an emergency, which we agreed upon, then asking if I wanted to go to her place and swim with her and D1. I thanked her but told her I was busy this afternoon/evening.
It seems like she wants to be BFFs, but is still sueing me in court for divorce. WTH?? It is almost like she needs me not to be mad at her and tosweep the past under the rug and act like nothing happened even though we are getting a D.
TM,
That is exactl what she is trying to do...sweep the entire situation under the rug, but move forward w/the divorce. She wants to be friends w/you so that she has someone to fall back on when she needs assistance. Their definition of friends is different from what we know.
She is really stretching to get your attention and have you in her corner. I had to laugh about burning movies. I wonder what she'll come up with next. Any ideas?
Continue doing what you've been doing.
I am sure she will ask me to Art Fest on Saturday with her and D1. We have went together every year since we've met. I will be busy that day as well.
Then she will follow up on the "let's sell D1's things in a garage sale", followed by "Since you don't want to hang out anymore, we will do things separately from now on."
Mark the date and time, because Nostradamus is in town.
Feels nice to be in control, eh?
But allow me to point something out you may not have thought of. While it is not acceptable to you that she wants to be friends and is suing you in court for divorce at the same time, there are worse things. There is also the consideration that sweeping it under the rug is NOT possible. You won't let it be. But that does NOT mean you have to deal with that at this immediate time if you don't want to. That can be dealt with later and could be really a whole lot easier if you were friends.
You will have to deal with it at some point. Putting up your wall may not serve you as well as you would like. It'll keep you from further hurt on that front, but you'll be dealing with her for many years to come to parent your daughter.
Wouldn't it be easier as friends? Wouldn't you like to know if you can forge a relationship and see where it goes?
I know. It's not easy. It's certainly understandable if you want to walk away and cut YOUR losses. It's easy to feel used. It's easy to feel you have been wronged and it's understandable that you have no reason to allow her into your life at any level until she makes amends.
But I can tell you that the timing of dealing with those wrongs is not the important part.
Something to think about, amigo. From a bigger picture perspective and a long view of the timelines.
AJ
No bet.
So I'm assuming you have some sort of 'only contact me in emergency' rule in effect right?
Cause without it? I wouldn't blame her.
Without it...it seems like you're just being a ass.
With it?
I'd remind her of it Nostradamus. Once, remind her that this is how it is. She wants the D, you do not have to be nice.
Jack-
We both agreed on that rule months ago, in fact SHE was the one to bring it up when she was with OM.
AJM-
I thought of exactly what you posted last night, before reading your post, so hopefully I am on the right track.
When I think of this situation of being friends I am struggling with the fine line between standing up for myself and backsliding from my hard earned changes. I would like to be friends, heck, I would like to keep being married and work on the issues, but I don't want to have her cake eating and I also wonder how D1 would process all this (is mommy and daddy together or not?). I don't want to send the message that everything is ok and that STBXW can just use me any way she wants to at anytime. I also don't want to look like I want nothing to do with her either, because I don't see how that would possibly get a relationship back on track.
I have thought a lot about the past and her claims that I put my job before her and I can see where that may be true. I was scared because I started in my first career that had benefits and all and I did not want to be in jeopardy of losing my job or the benefits for the family. This caused me to work long hours, which were required. I did make time for her the best I felt I could at the time, but obviously it was not enough. After I found out about the first affair, she asked me to go to a movie with her and I wanted to be alone to think so I declined. SHe then said that she would never ask me again and from now we would do everything separate.
Now I seem to be at the same crossroad again. She is asking for me to do things with her at the last minute, and as of right now I have respectfully declined, stating that I already had plans, which is true. I see where I may be making the same mistake as I the past by being unavailable and the 180 would be to be available.
So what do I do? Do I be friends, yet meanwhile sending the message that it is ok to continue to have her actions disconnect from her words or do I keep down this path, stick to my guns, an possibly lose any kind or relationship with her.
If it about being right or happy, I choose happy.
I am asking myself though would I be happy knowing that I am being used and allowing it, or would I be happy to cut ties with her.
Any thoughts?
I would guess you won't be happy either way if you put it like that. Not at first. Long term is different.
You will have to deal with her on some level. Can't run away.
You could be right about your boundaries and who is wrong etc.
More to think about right?
Have you told her you are thinking about such things?
AJ
I just want to put down appropriate boundaries and follow them. I am not trying to run away from her, but I would like to send the messsage that I am not here to be used like Kleenex and thrown away when ever she feels like it.
I have been civil and downright friendly in my dealings with her, but very cautious as what I do or say could be used against me in court.
I have not talked to her about relationship stuff as I have been trying to follow the 39 rules. I would talk about it if she brought it up, but maybe I need to address it now.
I don't want to make this about right and wrong, keeping score, or punishment and restitution. What I want is to have a relationship where I am treated with respect and if she wants to be my friend, then she treats me like one.
I have been using the boundaries to protect myself, but to also send the message that I won't be making the same mistake of rescuing her whenever she is in peril, but maybe that is wrong too. I don't know.
I have thought long and deep if I really love her or am I just hanging on because I beleive in marriage in general. I am pretty sure it is love as evidenced by my willingness to have her live with me last week, which considering the past and the possible pain I would have possibly opened my self up to, seemed to confound me. Even my friends still tell me that they see that I still love her.
So I have a lot to think about. It seems to come hard and fast some days and then plateaus for a awhile.
Thanks for the responses though! It helps me to think and sort this stuff out.
Looks like it is time for a new thread!