Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: BklynMom Not Being A Victim - 05/06/12 02:55 AM
Hi All

I have been posting on the newcomers board for several months now and this community has really given me the strength to keep going through this ordeal. I hope to be thriving soon.

H just officially filed for D last week and I am now ready to tell the world (neighbors, school parents, extended family etc) that H and I are separated. I am a typical chatter box type woman and I find it hard to tell people my sitch without becoming the victim. Most suggestions including my C say just tell people you are separated and there is no need to say anything else. But for me with many aquantinces that would be weird and not being honest.

Its kind of silly but I am going to ask my mother to tell some people so I dont have to answer questions.

I guess I should tell a little of my story. Long story short. H and I had some problems that were never ever discussed. I got angry and crazy. H retreated into a shell and never said anything. He wanted more sex. A week before the bomb we were bidding on a house, he was saying he loved me, and then the bomb - a flip switched in his mind and he never gave us a shot. Never tried C. Nothing. He said he was done and broken and that was it. No confirmation of OW but its very possible.

Any tips to tell my story honestly with out being the victim.

thks
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/06/12 10:09 AM
If the subject even comes up ... just say you're separated, and you are too sensitive to discuss the details yet.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/07/12 10:46 PM
Thanks BM. I actually practiced over the weekend with a friend. Then a acquaintance asked why I wasnt wearing my wedding ring, cause she always like it. It was funny she wasnt expecting the answer I gave. I said we are really struggling right now, the girls and I were fine and one of these days we will sit down and I will tell her all about it.

It felt good to talk about it and not feel ashamed!
Posted By: irishblessings Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/07/12 11:47 PM
Bklyn Mom,

I am sorry for the circumstances that have brought you here. It is painful in any case! I believe the fewer words the better. I don't know your whole story - but obviously this is a situation you didn't want and so I wouldn't put yourself out there right now.

JMO...

IB
Posted By: sweetbabyred Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/08/12 04:04 AM
About a month after H decided he wanted something different, he had taken off his ring and I was forced to do the same. If he had given up, I didn't want to be holding on and wearing it.

I eventually sent out an email to some of my close friends just giving them a short synopsis of what was going on. "not sure if what we want is compatible, hoping to make it work, etc" just so they had some idea what was going on and I wouldn't have to explain myself in person so many times.

I got an outpouring of people who wanted me to let me know that they were there for me if I needed to talk. I never took advantage of that, but I felt better being able to tell my side of the story without feeling that I might break down.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/08/12 11:29 PM
The general advice is usually to tell as few people as possible.
Some will find out but I don't think it is a great idea to advertise it.

You are not divorced yet, he has only filed.

My suggestion is to go as DARK as possible.

It is only OVER when YOU say it is not when the paperwork does.

Have you read my welcome post here on the MLC forum.

I can post it again if you need it.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/09/12 12:37 PM
I agree w/Cadet. Choose one or two very good friends that will be supporters who will listen and be there for you during this time. If you tell everyone, it will make it harder for your mlcer to come home, if he should opt to do so after his crisis is finished.

I have found that the more people you tell, the more drama is stirred up and continues to churn and then it becomes he said/she said. You do not need any additional drama in your life right now. Keep your friends close and share only w/those who know how to keep your information within your close circle.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 07:38 PM
Sweetbabyred - I like your idea of an email. Keeps it simple and doesnt let you get caught of guard as I sometimes do during conversations.

Snodderly and Cadet - thanks for your thoughts. Initially I stuck with the program you suggested of telling as few people as possible. However my H hates when he bumps into one of "my friends" or acquaintances that dont know. He always tells me about it, not telling me that he is mad because he is P/A but I know he is. I should tell people "It didnt work out with H. But there is no ill will and we will continue to be friends in order to raise our children"

Now that my H has filed for D my new policy is to live honestly and tell people as necessary.

The 1 yr anniversery of of the bomb is in 2 days. I have spent the past 12 months working on me. I feel like I have given everything I can to show my H that I am a new person. And I am a new person. H said in October he saw my changes. I have evolved even more since. But in H last email to me he said "i have no anger towards you even though i do feel that you treated me really bad in our marriage"

If he has seen my changes why cant he come home? Why does he tell me this is all my fault?? Why didnt he tell me something was wrong before he flipped the switch off? These are all silly rhetorical questions, that I sometimes still need to say.

Here is the full transcript of our entire recent email conversation if you are interested. Thank you all for your feed back it means the world. I think I am down because I just loved my email response to him. Even though I told myself not to expect anything in my heart I was praying for a miracle when he go my email. The truth is this still hurts so much.

----
(H email to me)
W
listen, this is not meant to be vengeful or hurtful in any way. i am happy now.

i feel the need to say this because i really don't think you are accepting the situation. if i was cold the other day, it wasn't an attempt to be mean, it's because i worry that my trying to be friendly with you was read the wrong way. we need to be able to be on good terms so we can raise the girls. on the phone the other day, you said you need separation, so i was trying to be more business. i have no anger towards you even though i do feel that you treated me really bad in our marriage. i am trying to look to the future and would hope that we can be friendly when we interact. should we not be so casual like we've been? does that make it hard? i thought we were communicating really well, and was surprised the other day when you said it's been painful, i don't want to cause pain. i was hoping to talk in person, this is hard to email, but i want to find out how you'd like our interactions to be.
thanks,
H

---
(My email to H)
H,
I have no greater regret then having treated you so badly during our marriage. I pray that you do not have any regrets in your lifetime as painful as mine.

I am truly glad you have found happiness now. It is also makes me happy to know that you are now honestly expressing your true feelings.

I am a little confused when you say that I am not accepting the situation. I live each day as a single mother. I live the reality of our situation each day. From housework, to making dinner, to walking to school, to kissing boo boos to celebrating each one of D3 & D2 cute little triumphs. I celebrate without a partner. No one will be as excited or as proud of our angels as you and I. Not sharing these everyday moments is something that I deeply miss.

Am I not accepting of how amicable and great being divorced and being friends can be? You have a better shot of convincing me to vote for Mitt Romney then convincing me that being amicably divorced can be honky dory.

I continue to work my Al-anon program and through my recovery I am able to enjoy each blessed day with our beautiful daughters. Al-non-is trying to instill in me that this is not my fault but that may take a while for me to accept. I can let go and let god.

Some people would find that over the last months that I have acted admirably. Many would act worse. You feel a need to write mean things even though I have not said mean things to you. You said I treated you badly. I did make mistakes. So did you.

That the dismise of our marriage, including our friendship & our physical connection as well as the breakup of our family causes me pain is a very normal & understandable reaction. In this area my therapist has helped me understand what my “normal” thought processes are and what are my “crazy” thought processes.

As far as how you should act; you need not worry about me and signals; act the way you want to act - we all want to be genuine.
W

I still believe:))
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 08:18 PM
Caution! Long Posting!

What your h has written is all in the mlc script. He needs to blame someone for the way he feels and yes, his behavior. Stop drinking the kool-aide that he continues to offer you. You know whether or not you tried in your marriage, you know that there is absolutely not one marriage that is perfect. Had the marriage been such a sham and he was treated so badly, why did he wait until now to separate? I do not buy into his bs in this email.

You didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him. Only God and your h can do that. His issues run far deeper and longer than before you married him. His issues are from his childhood and no matter what you do or don't do, you can't change his mind.

None of us had crystal balls or tarot cards to figure out what was wrong w/them before the switches were flipped. They tend to overlook the fact that they did not talk to us and express their feelings to us, therefore how could we know how they felt? Stop beating yourself up over this...you are not a mind reader!

Please keep in mind that his empathy chip is totally shattered and he can't understand the pain you are going through when you two are interacting. He truly doesn't see anything wrong w/what he has done and continues to do. So, my advice, set your boundaries and decide how do you want to communicate and when. If you are having difficulty actually speaking to him in person and you would feel better using the phone or texting, then tell him that. This is your call to make. I would also suggest that you only interact w/him concerning your children and only for emergencies. You are not ready to be "friends" w/him on his terms. Do what makes you feel more comfortable in interacting w/him.

From this day forward, please remember, you didn't break him. You can only work on yourself. Whatever changes you make are for you and you must be happy w/them. The changes are not for him...understand? Be yourself, hold your head up high and do not back down from your boundaries. Refuse the glass of kool-aide he is offering up...it's not good for you to take on his guilt and blame. Do not apologize again for the marriage and how you treated him...you've already done it enough. From now on, when he brings it up, say "h, I'm sorry you feel that way". Change the subject and move on. It's time for him to own his own mess in this situation. He needs to do the necessary work and look within for his happiness.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 08:37 PM
I can't agree more with Snod about the MLC script... My W could have written that email your H sent to you, BM... actually, I think she did... lol...

Originally Posted By: snodderly
If you are having difficulty actually speaking to him in person and you would feel better using the phone or texting, then tell him that.


Just an FYI, my comm of choice was email. My W used to call all the time and I was not able to keep up with any of the changes and no way of telling if something changed (regarding opinions or schedules)...

Anyhow, email is a great choice because it is a physical record for any reason, such as remembering kid schedules or similar...
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 09:05 PM
Thanks snodderly & kaffe Diem, I so needed to hear again that I DID NOT BREAK HIM. I am practicing "H I am sorry you feel that way".

Kaffe - I have tried to keep our conversations to email. And on the phone he gave me a choice if we should have the conversation in person or via email, I choose email. (Now of course he doesnt like what I choose)

Snodderly, I am amazed at how well you seem to get my H from that 1 email. He totally has some childhood father issues that he is burying. My H crisis started when his brother wife was diagnosed with cancer. I think it triggered many childhood feelings especially since his mother sister died of cancer when he was 10.

Also thank you for mentioning that his empathy chip has turned off. Its so weird interacting with him, he is like a zombie. Now that we have a schedule and the kids go to his house every other weekend, each good bye for me is somewhat emotional (though I dont let the kids see that) - my H acts like its no big whoop. Handing the little ones back and forth should be no big deal. I hate it. I am working on getting over that hate since its now a part of my life but my kids are little. My D2 is still such a little baby, who calls for her mama.

For a while my DB coach was telling me to be friends with him. I dont think that is working. I have continued to be pleasant but in the beginning of April stopped being friends. He does not like that.

1st Post


In case you want my story from the beginning. Thank you!!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 09:27 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
(Now of course he doesnt like what I choose)


ohh, oh, oooohhhh.... Do I know what that is like! Most recently my W wanted me to do the schedule for the kids. Now, she doesn't like how I'm scheduling... crazy

Originally Posted By: BklynMom
For a while my DB coach was telling me to be friends with him. I dont think that is working.


Of course I SHOULD say I agree with your DB coach... grin But I do... cool

Unless your coach changed their mind, I think the big problem is the WAS/MLCer has a different idea of what "friend" means that a LBS does.

I think we should all try to be friends with our spouses. I just think that we need to be clear in our own minds what friend means for us and to be THAT friend. And I think it's pretty sure that... oh, where's Brit's "friend" list...

Here:

Originally Posted By: Brit45
He said I was his best friend and we would always be friends. So here's my rules to be his friend:
Friends don't sabotage the others relationship
Friends don't flirt with each other.
Friends don't sleep with each other.
Friends want the best for that person.
They're happy for the other's acheivements.
Friends aren't jealous of one another.
Friends don't have an agenda.
Friends don't try to push thier wishes/hopes/dreams/opinions onto that the other
A Friend listens more than talks.
A friend tries to understand where you're coming from instead of telling you why you're wrong.
A friend never says I told you so.


I think there are some AWESOME boundaries there on how to be a friend. Of course, one can modify it to suit their own morals and ethics.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 09:31 PM
You can be civil w/him, but I seriously doubt that you can be friends w/him right now, maybe later on... The term "friends" has a different meaning for you h. It means that you are right where he left you when his crisis began and will be there whenever he wants to speak to you or have you do something for him. Friends do not treat friends the way that the mlcers do. If he doesn't like the fact that you aren't being "friends" to him, that's his problem, just as long as you are being civil to him. He can't have his cake and eat it too. If you had done to him what he's done to you, I can assure you...he wouldn't want to be friends w/you.

If you choose to email, then stick to it. Your man/child will need to learn that there are consequences for his actions. His feelings are numb right now when it comes to you, your child and the relationship.

One thing that you will need to learn and it is very difficult at first and that is to accept him for who he is today. The man you know and love is gone, i.e., Elvis has left the building. That means no expectations when it comes to him for doing or not doing something. Many times they make promises or say that they will do something and it doesn't happen because they either forgot or something more interesting comes along. His brain is pretty scrambled when it comes to thinking rationally and realzing that the world doesn't revolve around them.

Stick to the boundaries that you put in place. The boundaries are there to make things easier for you...not him. Just like a spoiled brat, he will learn to respect your boundaries and you.
Posted By: AJM Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/16/12 11:16 PM
I have to say I agree with both Kaffe and Snodderly. The trick here is to figure out what "friends" means. In my case I keep conversation to email and text. Mostly so I can keep it recorded but also because the spew is more than I'm willing to accept.

What does friends mean and what does your reponsiblity to your kids mean? Those are the questions you need to figure out.

What it means to him? That may change with the wind for all you know. Your boundaries are what you control. Your emotions.

Your expectations must remain at zero, but you can still be friends. It starts with friendly. It starts small and has many repeats in this situation. But you'll be glad for that advice later.

He won't likely always be this way. This is temporary in the scheme of things. They have a way of remembering things differently later wink Be the light and be the boundary setter. Be firm but kind. There is no reason to do otherwise regardless of his actions. You'll be glad later...
AJ
Posted By: Cadet Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/17/12 01:15 PM
Originally Posted By: snodderly
The man you know and love is gone, i.e., Elvis has left the building.
That means no expectations when it comes to him for doing or not doing something.

This is the hardest thing to wrap your mind around but soooo true.
He is an alien right now and as snodderly often says up on the mothership in outer space.

Him wanting you to tell your friends that you are separated is so that you can be the BAD person and at fault.
You get to do his dirty work.

I am going to repeat what I asked before, you did not answer

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Have you read my welcome post here on the MLC forum.

I can post it again if you need it.


This post has all the resources and information that we use here on this forum.
It is a starting place for learning how MLC works.
You have been around a while and may have already read all of that.

Please let me know.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/19/12 02:05 AM
Read it a while ago and I am reading it again tonight.

Thank you, Cadet:)
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/20/12 01:17 AM
Cadet, I have read your posts regarding stages of MLC. But can you link the welcome post.

Its hard for me to read about the stages cause I just want them to be over. I had a busy day today but in the end I said good night to my girls on the telephone and that makes me sad. I try to remember how blessed I am that me and my kids are healthy and safe. I should be grateful that my parents and sister have been so wonderful during this difficult time. I should be grateful that my finances are okay but all I can focus on in missing my girls.

When I call I begin acting happy. Then H tells me what a great day they had and I start to feel like I missed out on time with my girls and I feel sad and its reflected in my tone on the phone. I go in the why is he doing this to our family mode.

Sorry trying to get it all out of my head by writing it here. I have another busy day tomorrow and my girls will be home Monday. I love them so much.
Posted By: AJM Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/20/12 02:31 AM
Hey Bk, don't be sorry to post stuff like that. We've all been there or are there.

Try to keep focused on the things to be grateful for. That actually is your fastest way through this. His and your daughters as well. But more importantly yours. And that is very important at this point.

Keep at it and it gets more natural to be happy. Really, it does. There's a lot to be thankful for.

AJ
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/21/12 03:54 PM
I feel hopeless. D2 came home this morning an I will pick up d3 from school. But I feel like I am already packing for their overnight on Wednesday with him. I hate this lifestyle. I try to be grateful that my finances are good and my kids are healthy but am I going be dropping and picking up kids for the next 18yrs. It stinks.

This morning it was pouring here. I knew h had no rain gear for the girls. I wanted so bad to call him and tell him I could bring by the rain gear. I didn't call. Eventually he called me and asked me to meet him with the gear. He said he had been checking the radar and there would not be a break in the rain as he had initially thought. We met with the gear and he was appreciative as one would be if you borrowed an egg from a neighbor.

Later in the morning he came by with d2. He said should I take more of my stuff now or would another time be better. I said it's fine if you do it now. He was packing up his stuff from his closet and asked if he should take the action adventure pictures of himself. I said they are yours. He asked maybe the girls would want them. I said no thanks he could take them.

I tried to be upbeat for the visit but I couldn't maintain it. He was over longer then usual and the last 10 minutes I was more somber then I would have liked. I had music on for the whole visit and played with my little girl. I did the best I could although I am grieving.

I hate that he has become a stranger.

I have also been spending a bit of time with an al anon friend who is divorced. She has helped me find a lot of peace. However she left her h and does not want to r. She doesn't seem to mind the constant logistical juggle that I hate so much. She doesn't miss her partner.

I feel lost sometimes because I am always praying for a miracle. I go through the motions of staying busy yoga, running, alanon, brunch with friends but I feel a hole in my stomach. I don't know how to balance beleiving a miracle can happen and moving on.
Posted By: tested metal Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/21/12 04:07 PM
Bklyn,

I feel the same way when I have my D1 at home with me. I hate that my D1 is being shipped to and from her parents place and that she is begining to notice the changes taking place in life.

Although I don't want to get a D, it is happening whether I like it or not. I had to accept it, and when I did, after nights of hurting, I started to feel better.

I think that STBXW has notice the difference because now she texts me 4 times a day, to the point where I would have to put limits on it (not before 8 am).

As for the balance, I think that you have to have very little hope that he would come back, and put most of your thoughts and energy to moving on. As this is not easy to say, it is even harder to do, but it is probably your only chance at saving yourself and maybe (hopefully) your relationship.
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/21/12 04:47 PM
Dear Bklyn,

I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. I have that hole in the middle of me feeling, too. I was wondering when it might go away. It has been a long while for me, so I'm guessing not any time soon.

This morning I work up and for some odd reason the song "Total Eclipse of the Heart" was in my head. (Maybe because my friends all were excited about the eclipse yesterday.)

But I realized that is what my STBX has had. And I have no control over his feelings! NONE! I am doing my best to move on. And I do read my mantra on my wall: Create a New Beautiful Life For Me. Thanks 25 for that.

Take care of yourself. You will get a little better every day. I promise. Heck, I can say the word divorce in public now and not have a meltdown. Progress indeed!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/21/12 06:06 PM
I'm sorry today is tough Bklyn! Some are definitely harder than others, especially with younger children. It really adds a whole new level of difficulty.

Keep doing what you are doing, responding as you are. You are doing some wonderful things for yourself, self care is so very important right now. Good for you!!
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/21/12 09:15 PM
I feel like my head is back on straight. But the only way for me get focused again and not be bummed out is to believe in a miracle. I live in the reality of today; that my H is not at home but I will continue to believe that he will come home soon to me and our beautiful girls.
Posted By: NLW Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/22/12 03:30 AM
Hey Bklyn,

I'm right here with you on this.

The thing that keeps me going, though, is continuing to believe that my H will come home eventually - rather than 'soon'.

I figure if he came home soon, it would be doomed to fail as he is not ready yet.

Putting in place a much longer time frame, I cling onto AliSuddenly's experience of around 18 months (or 25's 2 years), because her partner seemed to be doing/saying similar things to mine.

Remember what it says in DR about the need to be patient? Re-read if necessary, because I think patience is the key to a good attitude in keeping going through this terrible time.

You are doing so well in this impossible situation. You've come this far, and you will adapt to whatever is thrown at you, I can tell.

Best, NLW
Posted By: NLW Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/22/12 04:07 AM
Hey Bklyn,

I'm right here with you on this.

The thing that keeps me going, though, is continuing to believe that my H will come home eventually - rather than 'soon'.

I figure if he came home soon, it would be doomed to fail as he is not ready yet.

Putting in place a much longer time frame, I cling onto AliSuddenly's experience of around 18 months (or 25's 2 years), because her partner seemed to be doing/saying similar things to mine.

Remember what it says in DR about the need to be patient? Re-read if necessary, because I think patience is the key to a good attitude in keeping going through this terrible time.

You are doing so well in this impossible situation. You've come this far, and you will adapt to whatever is thrown at you, I can tell.

Best, NLW
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/22/12 01:07 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
I going be dropping and picking up kids for the next 18yrs. It stinks.



Hey BK- I used to project what things would look like until my kids were adults. (Ex- they will alternate important holidays)

We can project in our minds 18-years of this logistical mess in a matter of minutes in our head. The thing is though is that we have no idea how things will actually be. When you see yourself thinking years in the future, especially negative thoughts, try to catch yourself and realize that it is just a dream and get your focus back on today.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/22/12 01:07 PM
One day at a time BK, you have come so far.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/22/12 07:55 PM
Thks SIAS and NLW. One day at a time & patience. I can do it. I have done it until now!
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/23/12 09:37 PM
Today was a great day. D3 had an appointment with a cardiologist b/c her dr. heard a heart murmur. Turns out her heart is perfect, no murmur even.

So my H just spent over an hour over here to pick up the kids. Dont know how it turned into an hour+ since everything was all packed when he got here. Girls were dilly dalling. D3 ask H if I could spend the night at daddy house. H just didnt answer. Also H brought me a coffee, which he hasnt done in while since I told him I need more space. (I told him I needed more space the day he filed for D)

My H has totally bought into this co-parenting crap about how freaking great its going to be once he is fully self actuallized and we are friends that can sip coffee while discussing the logistics of our kids lives. THat is total BS to me. If you can be friends with the other person and you are attracted to that person, and you have kids THEN YOU SHOULD BE MARRIED!! Hello. Didnt we both have the same values when we tied the knot?? Didnt we both value marriage and family and committment. Who is this alien.

I feel like I should tell H we need to go see the therapist again because D3 doesnt get that me sleeping at Daddys house is not an option. Someone needs to correct D3 rather than ignore it.

Meanwhile in lawyer land, its H turn to respond in writing to my L (who is also my father) and we are waiting for a response. Its been almost 2 weeks. I am feeling weak in the knees. Is his response going to be so comprehensive that the negotiating process will be over quickly and that will be the end of it??

I am going to enjoy the next 24 hours with no kids and get out and do some yoga and run.
Posted By: AJM Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/23/12 10:26 PM
Well, you have the right idea. Go run, do yoga, etc. Visualize. Focus. Expend energy, because you are still angry (I know, I know.)

Things won't change until you change. I can assure you of that.

I'm not saying you have to be friends, but acceptance and friendship aren't the same thing. Friendship is something different to you than it is to H. Finding what that balance is while parenting the kids is going to be the challenge.

Your values and his are not always going to be the same. But they weren't anyway. Co-parenting is MUCH better than parallel parenting though and your kids will need that to be healthy. I assure you as one that has walked in those shoes.

His leaving doesn't have to make sense. His actions don't have to make sense. They likely won't to you. But finding a way to co-parent is worth every tear and every joy.

If it was easy, wouldn't everyone do it? smile

For the sake of your kids health and balance, find a way to set the rest aside. It won't come easily nor quickly enough, but it is worth it.

AJ
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/23/12 11:12 PM
Thanks AJM for your thoughts. Def. something to think about.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/28/12 04:36 AM
Hey BK! How are things going in your neck of the woods? Hope you are doing well.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/28/12 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Today was a great day. D3 had an appointment with a cardiologist b/c her dr. heard a heart murmur. Turns out her heart is perfect, no murmur even.




Yeahhhhhhhh!! smile smile
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/29/12 07:51 PM
Girls and I had a idyllic weekend in upstate ny. I come home today and get a logistic email from him and I am thrown completely out of whack. My heart sinks and the saddness overwhelms. He is deranged. He is ripping apart our family and our lives I hate him. Why can't he wake up and see me standing here and being loving to him and our girls?
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/29/12 08:20 PM
Did you read "The Solo Partner" by Phil Deluca yet?

It talks about how we react to our spouse (and other people, too). You have a response to just reading his emails. Recognize that the communication with him is causing it. Do something to calm down, deep breath, walk, what it takes. Recognize it each time it happens and you will be able to deal with it better. Try to take control of it.

Don't let your reptile brain be in charge. If you read the book you will understand!

I am sending you a warm Hawaiin breeze, scented with night blooming jasmine. Hope it gives you a little lift and calm!

Aloha,

Wendy
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/29/12 09:02 PM
Don't allow him to control how you feel. It's just an email. I know, though, how hard it is, but you need to think of your children. Take the higher road, and not react negatively to anything coming from him. And, wait 24 hours before responding to any communication from your H. Gives you time to calm down.
Posted By: NLW Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/30/12 12:25 AM
Hey Wendy,

I'm hijacking some of that Hawaiian breeze.

Made me feel so good- I can smell and feel it, and will take it with me for use whenever I need it from now on.

That was such a lovely thing to do.

You are special!
NLW
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/30/12 02:38 AM
Wendy the Hawaiian breeze felt awesome, it is sticky and yucky tonight in Brooklyn.

I have not read the Solo Partner. I will look for it tomorrow in the book store. The book has been on my list for a while.

It took me about a 1/2 hr to recover from his email. Venting here helped me get over it. His email was non offensive, I am just so sad dealing with him on this friendly neighbors type level especially when its regarding handing off my kids.

Beingthere - so nice to read you calm and reassuring words. They help so much Its funny my H has always claimed that he was such a great guy but passive aggresively he is controlling. I was always supposed to guess how he wanted me to behave.
Unfortunately I sometimes cant wait 24hrs before I reply to email since they are regarding logistics over the next 24hrs but I always wait at least 4 hrs before replying. I always check with a Al-anon person before I hit send.

Had another wonderful afternoon and evening with my girls. I am grateful for what I have.

Side note: Has there been a discussion about Mary Kennedys death any where on the boards? I would love to listen to what other people think. I was deeply saddened by her suicide. I wish she had found us on these boards it may have help ease her pain more than the meds and alcohol. Her suicide also makes me proud of how strong I am being right now. (Is that weird??) I am taking the high road and doing my best to not suffer.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 05/30/12 02:56 AM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Girls and I had a idyllic weekend in upstate ny. I come home today and get a logistic email from him and I am thrown completely out of whack. My heart sinks and the saddness overwhelms. He is deranged. He is ripping apart our family and our lives I hate him. Why can't he wake up and see me standing here and being loving to him and our girls?


BK I am with ya. Had a wonderful and relaxing weekend with the kids come home and all heck breaks loose. H is cranky, money is short and he is being angry and pushy. I am so tired of his attitude. I act as if and happy go lucky and it makes him angrier. I hate my H too. My H is deranged as well. I am searching for that Hawaiian Breeze as well as he wants to talk after D goes to bed. I am sure he wants to push me into a decision about the house. Serenity now!!!0
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/03/12 03:53 PM
The kids are with H this weekend. I usually have a hard time on these weekends alone. I can stay busy but its never busy enough from missing my girls. For some reason this weekend has been easier. Even though my H called this morning so my D2 could say she missed her mommy and wanted her mommy - still its been easier for me not to wallow in self pity.

I have felt grateful for everything I have and have not focused on what I dont have.

I have been inspired by LITB posts about stopping his D

I was struggling with my Al-anon program for a little while because I felt that it was preparing me for D and advocating D. This week I talked about my internal struggle with that at my meetings and it has really helped me.

I am feeling good and looking forward to my girls coming home tomorrow.

Be well. Believe!
Posted By: NLW Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 12:03 AM
Yay bklyn,

You are really getting somewhere. Good for you!

I'll be thinking of you today and drawing inspiration from your progress.
(((( ))))
NLW.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 03:04 AM
Bklyn I just caught up on your new thread over here. I am so sorry to read about the hard time you are having being apart from your girls but glad to see you are feeling okay tonight. I think it is great to focus on being grateful for all that we do have so we do not lose sight of that by focusing on what we think we lack.

(( ))
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 09:10 PM
Was just invited to a end of the year performance at D3 school. Persumably my H and I would be in attendance. Just the thought of this makes me uncomfortable since I have not told many of the school parents about my sitch.

Also the neighborhood block party is in a couple weeks and that feels like another public event that I need to come out of the closet for. I have so much anxiety around this. Lucky I have over 2 weeks to make a plan so I can handle the circumstances.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 09:13 PM
I understand feeling anxious over the year performance and the block party, but you know what? You do not have anything to fear or be ashamed of. Be yourself! Hold your head up and be the person that you've always been. You aren't the one that is acting out...you only have control over you and what you say or do...go and have fun!
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 10:07 PM
Knock their socks off BK. Work it girl.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 10:40 PM
Thanks snodderly and wh for your thoughts but honestly they are a little too vague for me. I really dont know how to know who I need to tell and who I dont need to tell. I am confused.

But what do I say to people? Especially at the school where people think I am still couple with my H, if I dont tell them before hand that we are not together and they treat us like we are together at the event he will get angry at me.

I feel so ashamed that daughter doesnt have a home with a mother and a father, so ashamed.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 10:47 PM
Is your H going to go? It was hard for me to tell people at first hut it actually helps me detach. You don't have to tell them unless they ask Or unless they are close friends. And why will your H be angry? My H acts like nothing is even wrong when we are around others.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 11:04 PM
It is up to you as to who should be told. I wouldn't go out of my way to tell anyone about the situation, unless they ask or suggest doing something after the two meet ups.

If someone should ask or suggest doing something together, just say "we are separated" and leave it alone. This is between you, your h and the man up above. No one needs to know your business.

As for your h, he shouldn't be getting angry...he put you in this situation and really, he should be the one telling people that you are separated, just my two cents.

Listen, you should not feel ashamed that your child does have both parents in the home. You have done everything you can to give her a stable and loving environment. Believe it or not, people in today's society don't pay much attention to the two parent home any longer. The word divorce isn't something that is whispered in the corner any longer. Society has changed drastically since the 70's and people aren't sticklers like they use to be about such things.

What you need to worry about and should focus on is your daughter and making sure her special day is important. You should also turn the foucs back on to you as well. You have to be the strong one that will be there for your little girl. Don't rely on your h for much because he's gone to the moon and then some.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/04/12 11:06 PM
edit the fourth paragraph to read:

Listen, you should not feel ashamed that your child does not have both parents in the home. You have done everything you can to give her a stable and loving environment. Believe it or not, people in today's society don't pay much attention to the two parent home any longer. The word divorce isn't something that is whispered in the corner any longer. Society has changed drastically since the 70's and people aren't sticklers like they use to be about such things.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 12:08 AM
Thanks wh, & snodderly

WH - My h would like me to get with the program and tell everyone or better yet just announce on facebook that "H & I did not work out. We tried but it was not meant to be. We are friends now and going to happily co-parent our kids" (or something to that effect) He would prefer if I told people since in our marriage I was the person that communicated with friends and relatives so now in our D I should continue that role and explain how happy we are to be splitting up. If I do take this role of the great communicator on then I am seen as trying to stop him or that I dont accept reality.

Snodderly, I really needed to hear everything you said. I know that it is no ones business but I guess I think its a fine line between not talking about it and lying. I feel very uncomfortable when I think I am lying to people

I know divorce isnt taboo any more but I guess its more my pride that makes me so ashamed. Thank you so much for reminding me snodderly thats its all in my head.

Also I just always wanted something more for my kids then what I had. My parents are still together but we lived in a bad neighborhood growing up so I really worked hard to live in a nice neighborhood and I never expected that they would come from a D home. It makes me feel like I let down my kids for not giving them a true home with a mom and dad.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 12:13 AM
I am with you BK. D just svcks. H has not told anyone. The kids wouldn't even know if it wasn't for me. I am being strong for them. But then again my H does not want me telling people because I tell them the truth. He just tells lies.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 12:19 AM
You are not lying if you don't "freely" offer up information about your situation. It is absolutely no one else's business. However, if you are approached by someone and they ask, just simply state "we are separated" and leave it at that. Your business is not fodder for others to discuss behind closed doors.

As for being the mouth piece and sharing the news on FB or any other way...I say, if your h wants people to know, he can tell them. He wants you to do it because you'll put a nice spin on it...don't help him w/this. You do not want the separation/divorce, so why should you tell people that you are happy w/everything that is going on. Bottom line...your h doesn't want to come off looking like the @ss that he is in what he's done and continues to do. Do not help him w/this. He wants out, he can deal w/the consequences of his actions.

I appreciate what you've shared about your parents and the neighborhood where you were raised. I truly believe, from reading your postings, that your children do have it better and they will again...it will take some time, but you are a strong and independent woman who will take care of them. No one could see into the future that your h would have a crisis, not even he knew it was coming. We just have to hope and pray that he navigate the crisis and return a rational and mature man to be the father that he is suppose to be.

Please take care of yourself. Get plenty of rest, drink lots of floods, be sure to eat and one last thing...pamper yourself once in a while.
Posted By: dl443322 Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 01:58 AM
Oh Bk, I can feel how hard this is for you.

I agree with Snodderly. If your h wants to tell everyone, let him do it.

You do what feels right to you. A simple, we are separated right now, is enough and tell only those you feel comfortable telling.

People will move on to the next thing.

You did the very best you could with the knowledge and tools you had at the time.

You show your children how to navigate through life's struggles with courage and strength.

Let them know you will always be there for them and love them unconditionally. If you are ok, they will be, too.

Go to these events with your head held high. Looking good and smiling.

You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. That's all on him.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 02:17 AM
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH, SO WHAT I NEEDED TO HEAR TONIGHT.

THANK YOU:)
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/05/12 02:22 AM
(((BK)))
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 02:52 AM
I have had a moment of clarity. I know in my heart that the number 1 reason I want my H to come back to our marriage is because he is an amazing man and my best friend. He is my partner is everything. He has help me sort through life for 10 years, his my main man and I am his. I know this.

The 2nd Reason I want my H to return is because he is the father of my beautiful girls and he is a great Dad.

#3 Intimate Companionship

But reason #4 was the revelation. Reason #4 I try to hide deep in my soul so that no one can see it. Reason #4 is that I want my H to come back so that the family picture is pretty and complete. Reason #4 is small selfish reason that I didnt even admit to anyone including myself until tonight. But one person knows all about #4. He knew before I did. The sad thing is, is my H thinks reason #4 makes up 90% of the why pie, when in fact it is only a very tiny sliver.

I need to show him through my behavior, that I truly believe he is wonderful man regardless of this crisis. I need to show him that I dont love him or want him to fulfill some ideal fantasy family photo. He knows me better then I know me. He can sense my every desire. I believe if I can purge reason #4 and mediate on reason 1 & 3 before each interaction with him slowly he will open his eyes again and see his loving wife waiting patiently for him.

(now the fantasy - Then he will come to my window one night and blast In Your Eyes on his boom box)
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 03:04 AM
That is awesome BK. I often think of the wonderful man I married but I keep seeing the jerk he is being now. My good memories are being overshadowed. I am detaching maybe too much. Lol!
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 06:30 PM
My H wants to do a meeting with our lawyers. He has asked before for this type of meeting before and I have declined. I dont like that I will be negiotiating on the spot. I like to receive things in writing and have a few days to think about it. This is my proposed response.

Regarding a 4 way meeting. My father has strongly advised me against this meeting since in his experience woman usually agree to more then they should at these meetings in an effort to please their estranged husband. I however am not opposed to such a meeting but I agree with my father that from a legal stand point it is not in my best interest. Initially when you told me you were terribly unhappy I begged of you to attend marriage counseling with me, you declined. Now I could graciously decline as you did but I am willing to do the meeting in a trade. You go to 3 AA or Al-anon meetings and I will agree to a meeting? What do you think?

--
Thoughts??
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 07:01 PM
I wouldn't have a meeting. Usually when meetings of this nature occur, the lbs is put on the spot and tries to bargain w/the mlcer. If you are paying lawyer fees, then let your lawyer negotiate w/his lawyer. You do not need the unncessary aggravation.

I would simply state that your lawyer is available to discuss any issues that his lawyer may need to address and leave it at that.

As for putting a bargaining chip on the table for him to attend AA or Al-anon meetings...and in return, you would go to this meeting...I wouldn't do that. Not to sound cruel, but this is not a game of "dare"...you want to remain professional at all times because this separation/divorce is a business deal, i.e., contract that has been defaulted on.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 08:20 PM
I would only have the meeting as a strategy. I would not agree to anything at the meeting. I would just agree to meet. During the meeting I would agree to nothing - I would say I need to think about it.

I think my H needs to get into a program. A good part of his breakdown has been fueled by alcohol. 2 months prior to the bomb H said to me "I think I have a drinking problem. I said "your crazy, you only have 2 beers a night" whoops!

I was a fool.

I know I know you cant control someone. Let go and let god.

However I do believe I need to row the boat. I do believe I should do my best and let god do the rest. I should decide strategically what is right for me and let god take care of the results.

Thats my pitch
Posted By: dl443322 Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 08:36 PM
Sweetie, just a couple of things if I may.

First and foremost, I have to tell you to be very careful with an mlcer in divorce proceedings. They can become someone you do not know.

Do what is best for you and your children. Protect all of you.

I am not sure what he thinks will be accomplished in that 4 way meeting. It is often a chance for the person and his lawyer to see where you are at. A chance to find out what they are dealing with.

As far as the AA meeting. Not a good idea in my opinions. Here's why. The person with the problem has to want help otherwise it doesnt work. Secondly, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Ans as Snodderly said, you need to keep the divorce part a business deal.

And your h will see this as pressure. He will think you are trying to control him.

I get what you are trying to do. I do. But, that is his path to walk.

You have to let him.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/06/12 09:40 PM
Thanks Brookie and Snodderly - I have another day to decide what to do. So I am not going to make a rash decision.

Just want to add that my father/lawyer will can totally cream my H lawyer. First of all my father has my interest and my daughters interest at the top of our list. 2nd of all my father who is in his late 60s has been doing D for almost 35 yrs. My H L to this point has been nothing but inept. Its a little sad. I googled H L and the guy is in his early 30s so there is no way he is going to have the kind of experience my dad has. Plus my father is so so smart, so ethical and is on the team of bringing my H home. My father believes that my H has had a nervous breakdown and my father key strategy is to give my H enough time to come to his senses.

My father and I have discussed the challenges of him representing me in the case. Early on we talked about finding a different L. We decided together that do to the extreme nature of my circumstance that he would continue to be my L and my #1 advisor. My father paid for more then one appt with DB coaches for himself to understand the strategy. My father believes we must do what works.

My father supports the DB philosophy but doesnt believe in doing nothing. He believes that each action we take needs to be thought through and decided on in a systematic way. This approached has helped me mentally detach and treat this almost like a work problem rather then a personal crisis (although I do slide into crisis mode on occasion)

Also part of strategy is my father can be the jerk and I tell my H, I would love let you pay less but I need to trust my Dad, sorry.

Thks for listening
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 03:12 PM
Here is my updated letter I havent sent it yet and have given thought to not sending anything just saying no to the meeting.
----
Regarding a 4 way meeting. My father has strongly advised me against this meeting since in his experience woman usually agree to more then they should at these meetings in an effort to please their estranged husband. I however am not opposed to such a meeting but I agree with my father that from a legal stand point it is not in my best interest. Initially when this situation arose I begged of you to attend marriage counseling with me, you declined. Now I could graciously decline as you did but I am willing to do the meeting in a trade. You go to 3 AA or Al-anon meetings and I will agree to a meeting? What do you think?

PS. Please do not misunderstand the purpose is not for us to get back together. Rather it is for us to better communicate with each other as we co-parent and perhaps for you to better understand me. I have learned and witnessed at Al Anon how people can share their innermost feelings, can better communicate with each other, in a non judgmental environment, and still be unconditionally accepted. I wish while I was growing up I had been more open with both my Mom and Dad. Instead I kept it inside and I have suffered because of it. Your going would facilitate the meeting and make it much less emotionally difficult for me.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:08 PM
Bklyn - I would think again about sending this. I have tried to reduce a little of things that are your emotions and things that are legal advice that should be kept between you and your father:

Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Here is my updated letter I havent sent it yet and have given thought to not sending anything just saying no to the meeting.
----
Regarding a 4 way meeting. My father has strongly advised me against this meeting since in his experience woman usually agree to more then they should at these meetings in an effort to please their estranged husband. I would not share your father's legal advice with your H.I however am not opposed to such a meeting but I agree with my father that from a legal stand point it is not in my best interest. Initially when this situation arose I begged of you to attend marriage counseling with me, you declined. Now I could graciously decline as you did but I am willing to do the meeting in a trade. You go to 3 AA or Al-anon meetings and I will agree to a meeting? What do you think?

PS. Please do not misunderstand the purpose is not for us to get back together. Rather it is
for us to better communicate with each other as we co-parent and perhaps for you to better understand me. I have learned and witnessed at Al Anon how people can share their innermost feelings, can better communicate with each other, in a non judgmental environment, and still be unconditionally accepted. I wish while I was growing up I had been more open with both my Mom and Dad. Instead I kept it inside and I have suffered because of it. Your going would facilitate the meeting and make it much less emotionally difficult for me.


Given that you were just posting about showing your H your top 3 reasons for wanting to reconcile, I think what you had initially written really goes against that. If you shorten it to . . . I am open to it to better communicate while we co-parent - I think you are closer to showing H that #4 is not the 90% he thinks it is.


His request for the meeting does strike me as odd. If you do go, I would be silent, not say anything, and be upfront that you will not be agreeing to anything. You will need to be cool, calm, collected, and confident. Can you do that? If not, I would really question going.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:20 PM
verab754,
An excellent posting!

Bklyn,
We (three posters) have basically said the same thing, keep it as a business deal, leave your personal emotions out of it and do not use AA or Al-Anon as a bargaining chip. By doing so, you are setting yourself up as trying to manipulative and/or control him. A mlcer will not go for that. In fact, they become even more stubborn. Also, mlcers can't focus on too much of written word, i.e., keep it short, simple and to the point just as verab has done for you.

You are not dealing w/a rational individual right now. His emotions are what are driving him.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:21 PM
I really dont want to go to a meeting I would only go if he could go to a AA or Alanon meeting. My H needs help and I will try to help him find it. Whether or not he finds it is up to God I can not control that but I will be pointing in the right direction.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:31 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
I really dont want to go to a meeting I would only go if he could go to a AA or Alanon meeting.


Unfortunately this sounds like "I will only go to the meeting if I can control what H does." You know you can't.

Given that you said your only reason for going would be "strategy" i.e. getting him into a meeting that it seems like he doesn't want to get into, I would concur with the advice upthread to just say that if he and his L want to present something they can send it to your L and you will take a look at it then.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:32 PM
PS - if you use the meeting as a bargaining chip to get him to go to a meeting, and he doesn't go, you're setting yourself up for a bigger fall because of your expectations.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 04:34 PM
PPS - I am glad that you have your father around to help you through this, legally. But again - keep everything you discuss with him as your L between you and him. Your strategy is your own and you may wind up in an unfavorable position if you reveal too much to him.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 05:04 PM
If he doesnt go to the meeting then whatever, then we will not meet. I do not have any expectations that he will actually go.

The legal advice I mentioned was only mentioned to make my father the bad guy not because it is are "true strategy"

"I will only go to the meeting if I can control what H does."
I understand this and its true that is the only way I would go to a meeting it is not in my best interest to go however I would forego my best interest he did something that could help our family not just if we are together but also if we do D.

I will consider everyones thoughts. Thank you.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/07/12 05:41 PM
To clarify - your L is just your L, I don't think you need to try to make your L the bad guy at this point. Especially b/c it's your father - what if you reconciled but your H still thought your father was "the bad guy?"

Even if it's not "true strategy" I would be very wary of using language like "My L advised me . . . " because to me it comes across as "This is how I want to get a dig at you but I'm disguising it as coming from my L." It still creates ill will toward your "side."

Good luck with your decision. ((( )))
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/09/12 10:44 AM
I sent the email yesterday at 2p, that you wonderful friends so strongly advised against. No response yet from H.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/09/12 04:05 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
I sent the email yesterday at 2p, that you wonderful friends so strongly advised against. No response yet from H.

Did you have EXPECTATIONS that he would respond?
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 01:49 AM
thks for checking in Cadet. I love your insights. I think at some point he will respond, whether through his L or via an email back to me. I dont think thats having EXPECTATIONS, my H is still behaving somewhat as a functioning adult and generally replies to emails.

Another perfect day with my girls. I will certainly sleep well tonight, grateful that I have two of the most wonderful gifts God could ever give.

I had a small awaking today. Verab wrote to me that I was trying to control my H by giving him a choice. That was something I really needed to explore within myself and I am so glad she wrote that to me.

The old Bklyn would have taken what Verab wrote as fact and I would have beat myself up with the little voice in my head for days for being controlling. Being controlling as was implied is not something my H hates about me. I am not very controlling. I never told him what decisions he should make with his life or career. My negative attributes are being depressed/negative attitude, talking meanly and being a perfectionist regarding ridiculously mundane things. Those 3 things are what my H doesnt like about me and what I dont like about me. (there are more too)

I stand by the email I sent him regardless of the outcome. It was honest. I want him to get help regardless of our martial status.

Many people on these boards profess that there is no treatment for a person in MLC. I disagree (not that I really know) but I think 12 step programs can help, a good therapist/shrink can help, medications can help. Just as with a drug addict sometimes you do an intervention, sometimes the addict gets clean - sometimes they dont; I do think its important to point these people in the right direction, whether they follow that path is up to them. I certainly cant make my H get sober. I cant force my H come home. I cant make his heart feel something it wont. (thks bonnie) But I will leave of a trail of bread crumbs in the right direction.

thks guys. It is true that everyday it gets a little easier. Still so hard but a little easier. thank you all for reading and all your comments, I need these boards like I need oxygen.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 06:48 PM
He replied!


"if you think that's what's best for our communication. I will do it"

I am so happy and yes now I have way too many expectations. I just want to kiss the fool. He is so silly.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 08:34 PM
Keep your expectations at zero. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but he just might attend one meeting just so that you'll meet w/him and his lawyer. Time will tell on whether he will actually go to the AA meeting and will continue going.
Posted By: Walking Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 09:05 PM
Wow Brooklyn Mum .... you remind me of those 50s TV shows, where 2 people are having a conversation, discussing 2 completely different things.

He wants a meeting with a lawyer. You agreed. As far as he's concerned, you did what you always do - you agreed to go along with him, with one of your whiny, controlling, I know better than you do what's best for you and us so you have to do something I want as well.

Why wouldn't he go along with it? He's used to it. Depending on his pattern, he may or may not go to the meetings, but it doesn't matter, because unless someone is open to healing and changing you can sit through dozens of therapy sessions, 12 step programs etc and not self reflect one bit (I'm well qualified to speak on that subject).

Of course he wants to improve communication - he hates the current conflict - he wants to separate in an amicable way. He's like, "sheesh, she wants me to go to a 12 step program (shaking his head) whatever, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes" ... nothing more

DBing suggests 180s for a reason.

Take it easy ... the sooner you turn your focus away from your H and getting him to do things to fix himself and therefore your marriage and on to you - and what you can do to build your life, so that you'll be OK no matter what your H decides to do ... the sooner you'll start to feel better and start healing yourself, and then possibly your relationship with your H.

Take care, V (())
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 09:16 PM
Walking,
You are spot on w/your posting.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 10:55 PM
Walking and Snodderly thanks so much for your posts. Right now I am really working on keeping my expectations loooow but I am still fantasizing about H playing In You Eyes on his boom box in the rain outside my window. I cant help it.

You guys are totally right I have no idea if AA will work for him right now. I can just hope a seed is planted in one of the rooms. I think it will also be good for him to see the program I am working, Al-anon - it will help him understand my disease a little more.

Something changed in me this weekend. There was a shift in my brain somehow. Maybe in the writing of the email I let out feeling that I needed to release. I also had a great conversation with a cousin about my sitch so I feel really good today. I had a amazing weekend with our perfect adorable little girls and I really feel sad that he is missing out on so much - but its his loss. I am one very blessed mommy:)
Posted By: Walking Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/10/12 11:49 PM
Who doesn't fantasize about John Cusack outside their bedroom window ?? blush blush blush ... Say Anything ... what a lovestory .. my second favourite movie of all time, after Valley Girl with Nicholas Cage *swoon".

Do you identify your al-anon primary person (terminology?, for the person you associate as the alcoholic in your life) as your husband?
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/11/12 03:56 AM
Hey BK! Just stopping by to say hi! I read a few of your posts from the past week. You sound really good and emotionally you seem stronger than I've seen you in months. Good for you! Good luck on the AA meetings with your H. I hope you both get something out of it.

Originally Posted By: Walking
Who doesn't fantasize about John Cusack outside their bedroom window ??

You mean like Bryce the geek character that he played in Sixteen Candles? wink
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/11/12 06:02 PM
2tp - I prefer Llyod Dobler to Bryce. 80 movies are my favorite.

Walking - I come from a big family of alcoholics, so my H is just one of many alcoholics in my life.

So I am going with my H tonight to an AA meeting. I cant believe it. He has been emailing me today asking when he should go, if he should go to aa or alanon, should he go alone or with me? I have waited to reply to each email slowly. As of now we are going together to a meeting tonight at 8:30.

No expectations. No expectations. No expectations. No expectations. No expectations. No expectations. I am just going to keep saying this to myself
Posted By: labug Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/12/12 12:36 AM
No expectations, I'll hold that thought for you...
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/12/12 02:12 AM
Went to AA meeting with H. It was a great meeting. One speaker was definitely a man my H could relate to. The guy was an alcoholic but hadnt lost his house. I think my H thinks to be an alcoholic you have to be living on the streets. Nothing dramatic but a seed was planted. We are going to an Alanon meeting tomorrow night, isnt it romantic?
Posted By: NLW Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/12/12 11:58 AM
Lol, bklyn.
Romantic it aint

But...
it IS something significant in your journey.

And isn't it amazing how the little things we took for granted - like going to a meeting of this sort with H, or whatever it is - take on so much import now.

My H actually brought a cup of tea that I'd made for myself from the kitchen into the lounge room where I was sitting and handed it to me tonight (he was visiting to help D16 with homework).

And I nearly fell off my chair. What a massive step forward that was in our relationship (and how sad that it means that much to me).

So glad to hear that you are going to these meetings.

If it helps at all with the 'no expectations' perspective, here's the chorus of a song I use as the soundtrack to my attempts to survive. You have to imagine the music to get the full, mojo-pumping effect (Titanium, David Guetta):

I'm bulletproof, nothing to lose
Fire away, fire away
Ricochet, you take your aim
Fire away, fire away
You shoot me down but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down but I won't fall
I am titanium
I am titanium
I am titanium
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/12/12 12:09 PM
I'm glad to see that your h attended the AA meeting. It will give him something to think about and hopefully decide to have a sponsor work w/him.

So, when will you and your lawyer (father) meeting w/your h and his lawyer? After a few meetings, don't be surprised if he raises that question to you.

Please keep your expectations at zero and I do have to agree w/the other poster...this isn't romantic, but serious business. Time will tell if he will continue going or if he's just doing this to get you to attend the meeting and move forward w/a divorce.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/13/12 03:02 AM
We went to an Alanon meeting tonight. After the meeting we spoke a little and H asked me if I think he belongs in either AA or Alanon. It was a question I was not prepared to answer, it is something that he needs to answer for himself but he is so not ready. It was clear to me after this meeting how bottled up his emotions are. He is looking for a check list to see if he qualifies for these programs rather than listening and looking with in. Its very sad.

He keeps on asking me what to do next. I told him for the third meeting he should go by himself that maybe he would hear something else without me there.

I think I am going to prepare an email to him - answer some of the things he asked me tonight, then I can decide whether to send it or not.

Going to meetings with him is definitely helping me let go. If he cant see the changes in me, if he isnt attracted to the serenity that I taste and the huge "work" I have done - I am not interested in him.

By the way has anyone read the newsweek article about Mary Kennedy - its such a tragedy. I believe I could have easily become her. 10 more years of my disease and I would have been dead from something.
Posted By: labug Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/13/12 02:04 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom

He keeps on asking me what to do next. I told him for the third meeting he should go by himself that maybe he would hear something else without me there.

I think I am going to prepare an email to him - answer some of the things he asked me tonight, then I can decide whether to send it or not.


I think those are good ideas.

I'm glad he at least stuck his toe in the water.
Posted By: labug Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/13/12 02:07 PM
I just read some of the Mary Kennedy article, There but by the grace of God...
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/13/12 08:45 PM
Hey BK, will catch up on u later but just wanted to say hi.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/15/12 11:34 AM
SIAS thks for checking in. Go Thunder! Have I ever mentioned that my parents were living in OKC 9 months prior to my birth??

I feel a change in the wind since these meetings with my H. In our post meeting conversations it has just been glaringly obviously my growth and his lack of growth. At one point he blamed me again 100% for the downfall of our relationship and I wasnt angry and I validated but it made me think he was a little insane if in a year he hasnt recognized the part he played as well.

H goes to his last agreed upon meeting today and we will see.

We have a couple of school events coming up and I was concerned about if we should/would attend together or separate, its amazing now I dont care. He was on the email list and got the invite, he can do whatever and I will do what I plan on doing.

Slowly the good days out number the bad
Posted By: dl443322 Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/15/12 01:25 PM
Atta girl, BK.

It's on him. Leave him to it. You just keep going.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/15/12 02:08 PM
BlkynMom,

It's been almost 3 years since my MLC H left, he stills blames me for everything.

At first I carried the weight of guilt because I believed him...through my own journey I realized I wasn't all that bad of a wife. Fixed what I didn't like about me and continued on.

When they say it takes the MLCer a long time to get to the other side, if ever, believe it. No expectations = no disappointment. Something I still have to remind myself of every so often.

Brookie is right, just keep going. You're doing fine!
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 01:21 PM
thks Brookie and Seeking Answers

H had the girls over the weekend, and I stayed very busy but Sunday was hard. Fathers day, no girls - no activity could get me out of my funk.

Monday morning - H and the girls come over before school and we all walk together. It was wonderful. I go for coffee with H and d2 after walk. I'm putting that interaction in the bank

Then monday night I get the email from him - "Should I have my L contact your dad to set up a meeting"

I have decided not to answer.

Today I will enjoy another beautiful day with my angels
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 01:39 PM
Are you planning to respond to his email at some point? The reason that I am asking is that you put the "deal" on the table when you sent the email to him with the following:
"Now I could graciously decline as you did but I am willing to do the meeting in a trade. You go to 3 AA or Al-anon meetings and I will agree to a meeting? What do you think?"

As I recall, your h was more than happy to go to the meetings and even had you go along w/him...so now, I believe it is your move to agree to the meeting.

I had a feeling he would do the meetings that you specifically stated in your email and then want the meeting. You now owe him a response and you should seriously think of owning up to your part of the deal. Whenever we, the lbs, put something on the table or threaten them w/something, we have to follow through or they will know that we are just bluffing and that will make them that much more determined to move forward w/a divorce or make life even more difficult for us.

Whatever you do, follow through on what you say you will do. Don't play games because this is very serious stuff and none of us wants to see anyone hurt unnecessarily when it comes to mlc, family and finances any situation.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 02:01 PM
I will happily attend the meeting and my h can schedule it through our lawyers I do not need to give him my permission.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 02:09 PM
That's your call if you don't want to reply. However, I would reply and just say yes w/nothing more added. Ignoring the email looks like you are playing games w/him (in his eyes).
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 02:21 PM
BTW, the reason your h is looking to you for an answer about setting up the meeting because you are the one that sent him the text with the ultimatium. People who are thinking rationally would go ahead and have their lawyer contact spouse's lawyer, but when they are in crisis, they aren't thinking like rational adults. Your h, if he is in mlc is a teenager, looking to "mom" (you), for the answers.

I have been where you are right now and I know how you feel. However, you will get more with honey than vingear.

I am sorry if I have offended you with my responses, but I try to be as honest as I can w/the posters to help them avoid the pitfalls that I experienced a long time ago.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 03:50 PM
Can I write you fulfilled your end and I will fulfill mine?
Posted By: TSquared2 Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 04:00 PM
I agree with Snodderly...just reply back with "yes" and leave it at that...I learned the hard way to not feed or poke the mlcer...

Less is more.. wink
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 04:08 PM
Just respond back with a yes. That's the only answer he is looking for.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 04:50 PM
I just replied back yes - against my good judgement. Don't really know why I am trusting someone named snodderly and tsquared2 who I meet on the Internet over my own genius reasoning. The same genius reasoning that got me into this predicament to begin with.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 04:51 PM
He replied immediately "thanks"
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 04:59 PM
He replied immediately "thanks"
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 05:00 PM
I'm glad you took our advice.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 05:21 PM
Why do I feel so terrible right now?
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 05:30 PM
Because he has told you what his intentions are, i.e., to continue working on a divorce. You may not have realized it, but your expectations may have been a little bit on the high side after he was willing to attend the meetings. Just my opinion.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 05:36 PM
Why does he want a D if all our interactions are positive?
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 05:50 PM
Because he is in crisis and he thinks that a divorce will provide him with the freedom, independence and happiness he so desperately desires. He thinks that the relationship and you are the cause of his unhappiness.

BTW, if you go back through your thread, you will find a posting from me where I did indicate that I thought he was just going through the motions of the AA meetings just to get you to meet w/him. Mlcers tend to do this just so that they can finally get what they requested or wanted to move ahead. They will promise you the moon, but in the end, the moon is still up in the sky and the promises are broken.

Carve out some addiitonal time and read up on mlc and depression. They go hand in hand.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 06:09 PM
I have read about MLC and depression and it doesnt sink into my thick skull because it doesnt make any sense. My H says he would do anything for our daughters but yet he never tried to work on our relationship?

I knew getting him to meetings was a shot in the dark but miracles happen all the time through the program maybe a seed was planted for the future. Most people come into the program when they are in the gutter apparently my H has a way to go.

My cousin just got sober and it was not pretty getting her there. She got fired, walked out of rehab, went to meetings drunk, threw chairs around her house but now she is sober 3 months. Miracles do happen. I need to keep believing in miracles for my children.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 06:26 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
I just replied back yes - against my good judgement. Don't really know why I am trusting someone named snodderly and tsquared2 who I meet on the Internet over my own genius reasoning. The same genius reasoning that got me into this predicament to begin with.


lol Brooklyn Babe smile
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Miracles do happen. I need to keep believing in miracles for my children.



BK Babe- The person you have grown into has been a miracle for you and your beautiful girls.
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 06:31 PM
The subject of mlc is very hard to wrap your brain around and that's why it is important that you learn how to detach, not react to his crazymaking behavior and turn the focus back on to you and your children. It's important to understand that this particular crisis is fueld by emotions, not sanity, per se.

I had a difficult time understanding mlc until I got slammed a few times by my xh along the early stages. Everything that we know to be right and true to repairing things doesn't work in the mlc world. Everything is opposite, because the crisis is all about being opposite or mirror image for the mlcer.

You aren't dealing with the man you married. You are dealing with the exact opposite, i.e., thus the mirror image. In his eyes, you are an authority figure, i.e., mom. He is acting out and rebelling against the mom figure. It will take him a while before he has tried every avenue to find the illusive happiness and hopefully he will hit bottom hard and then begin to seek assistance and rise to the top a better, more mature man. But, you need to understand, YOU CAN'T HELP HIM! This is a journey of self and he needs to repair his "self". You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.

Miracles happen every day and no one is telling you to give up hope. What we are trying to do is advise you on how to better communicate, react and understand w/your h and his crisis.

Why listen and trust us? Because we have been where you are and some are still on the same path w/you. I walked the path 13 years ago and while walking, I studied mlc, depression, personality disorders, as well as talked to full blown mlcers during that time. Each poster comes here and has something to offer others and as we post to each other, we continue to learn something new each and every day. I remain here as a poster, to help others walk the path and avoid the pitfalls that I encountered.

Please continue to post and ask questions. I realize that you get frustrated with the advice that we offer, but all I ask is that you keep an open mind to what we offer in the way of support and advice. I think we have a great group of posters here and we all strive to help one another, even when we dish out 2X4's when we know a poster is aware that they shouldn't have done what they did. What we have here is called "family".
Posted By: TSquared2 Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 06:51 PM
Quote:
Why do I feel so terrible right now?


Maybe, just maybe...you sending that short, one word text, has thrown H off...Maybe he's thinking "Uh, just a "yes"? WTF, where the deal making, the negotiation, the <insert BklynMom "standard MO" here>". Maybe he'll be scratching his brain about that, scratching the itch in his peripheral awareness, unsettling him...?

Or not, but it can be a somewhat satisfying possibility... wink

Hang in there!!!!

smile

T^2
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 08:33 PM
Yes hang in there and make a new thread. : )
Posted By: job Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/19/12 09:08 PM
Jack,
I was just going to suggest that! You beat me to it!
Posted By: Walking Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/20/12 04:17 AM
Quote:
Then monday night I get the email from him - "Should I have my L contact your dad to set up a meeting"

I have decided not to answer.


Wow!!! You are one passive-aggressive manipulative woman.
Posted By: Walking Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/20/12 04:47 AM
BMum - I just read the rest of the thread and I can see you did go back to him.

to be honest, I was blown away when I read you're first post - girl, that's just bad manners!! You are on him for everything and have these long conversations etc - and yet when he asked to you fulfil an obligation THAT YOU MADE ... it was you're idea in the first place ... you were going to just ignore it???? Wow. Just wow.

Those are the type of things that impact on relationships and why men do get to the point where they no longer find their partner attractive. Sure, he likes you well enough and he's happy to spend time with you, you are the mother of his children - but he's not attracted to you ... probably precisely because of this type of behaviour.

Brooklyn - see if you can sepnd some time thinking about how your behaviour makes you attractive - or choosing behaviour that is more attractive ... this isn't getting you anywhere.

V
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/20/12 04:04 PM
I am about to start a new thread.

Walking - I am doing the best I can. I come to these boards for support. Not to be told I am a$$hole. I have two young children and am really struggling to be there for them and happy every day. I am being grateful for all I have not all I dont have. I am doing my best here. Your above comment was rude and mean and does that show that you have any growth in your own recovery. Maybe my initial decision not to respond was not the best decision but their are others ways to tell me that.
Posted By: notsosunny Re: Not Being A Victim - 06/20/12 08:03 PM
Wow........

yes this is a site for support
Hang in there BklynMom.....

Karma...remember Karma........
Make the decisions that U need to make....for you and your kids

hugs
Cindy Lou
Posted By: labug Re: Not Being A Victim - 08/11/12 02:59 AM
Hey BK, where are you? This is the last thread I could find.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Not Being A Victim - 08/11/12 03:30 AM
I'm looking for you too BK where did you go?
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