All, I’ve been asked to start a new thread…. I have copied my last response on this thread to make it easier for folks.
Oh….and here are the links to all of my old threads….for those who are interested in seeing anger, whining, pain, love, pretty much all of the sh!t that we the LBS’s go through ya may want to give some of the early ones a read.
1st thread 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th Here is my last post on my last thread…
Thanks everyone for the responses.
I wanted to clarify a few points…
That is exactly what I am doing. Doesn’t make it less painful and frustrating – that said, I am detached enough to recognize that my sons issues/anger are his to deal with. I will be there for him when and if he is ready.
But, I would add that you should not be talking to his friends about him at all. Not appropriate in my book. And if he ever finds out, it aint gonna be pretty.
I do not ask his friends about my son. They actually come to me to vent about a lot of things, some of which are about my son. I listen and most often do not have any comment other than, “son” is dealing with a lot.
This is exactly my boundary. Son is not one to outright disrespect me. It is more the tone and body language he displays when speaking to me.
Yep….he may or may not ever figure out a way to deal with his anger. Either way, I just keep loving him when the opportunity presents itself.
Are you approaching his friends or are they coming to you?
They approach me Jack. Trust me I know better than to ask/pry.
I am not turning them away. I am not feeding them information to gain them as my friends either.
I’m not Jack. I just listen. I do not feed them any info. My only comments are along the lines of…leave him alone, he has a lot that he is dealing with, etc. No details about STBXW, the history behind what happened with the M, etc.
Doesn't mean I don't love you, but if you give me attitude I'll break it."
That is the approach that I am trying to take with him. Firm to the point and strict boundaries. We barely speak these days as he does not come over. When we do speak I usually just ask him how he is doing and I remind him that I love him. It really is all that I can do.
You have often said DBing is really a way of life
It is Antonia…and trust me…It is how I deal with everyone in my life.
You say his personality closely resembles his Mothers ?
I say this for several reasons….
RIGHT NOW
Both are spoiled teenagers wanting what the want with no sense of responsibility or who they hurt in the process. Her cause by her own MLC, his I believe is typical teenage behavior. They both IMO have self confidence issues. My feeling is as they are now facing life…they are scared. Normal behavior imo. They both are the oldest children and feel the need to protect the younger ones.
How much do you address him, the way you address her ?
I actually deal with both of them much the same. I am pleasant but short and to the point. With my son I do try and communicate my love in the form of an “I love you”, which he never responds to but I want him to know that I am here for him. Funny….in one way I have taken on detachment to a new level.
Your son WILL look toward you again one day, perhaps he is already looking toward you
I am sure that he is….what I will not allow is behavior towards me that is disrespectful. I also feel that I need to show him that HIS choices will drive his life. Although he is angry and has a lot to deal with it does not give him a free pass to deal and treat people anyway he wants. Let me give you an example:
This past week my youngest son broke up with his girlfriend (she cheated or so I am told). My youngest asked me how to deal with it and I gave him my thoughts on the matter. Be respectful, do not attack her, focus on your happiness, understand that you did not cause her to cheat, etc. Youngest did pretty much what I was told….here is where it get interesting….I am at work last week and I get a call from the mother of the x of my youngest (15)…she starts screaming at me that my oldest (17) has started attacking her on facebook. She actually read what he posted and honestly I was embarrassed. I explained to the mother that I would speak with my son about this. When I did…..here is a short version of the convo….
Me – Son why did you attack the mother of youngest son X girlfriend?
Son – cause she is a slut.
Me – Why do you say that?
Son – cause she cheated on my brother just like my girlfriend did to me.
Me – so you feel that this gives you the right to critize her mother?
Son – yes – I was angry. I am allowed to vent right?
Me – Yes you can vent; however doing so in a public forum is really not appropriate.
Son – well I was angry.
Me – I understand you were angry – that said, being angry does not give you the right to do whatever it is you feel like doing.
Son – well she is a slut and must have learned that cheating is okay from her MOTHER (interesting enough STBXW was standing right next to me and put her head down)
Me – Why do you say that son?
Son – cause she must have learned it from her mother.
Me – really?
Son – Yes. It must have been how she was raised.
Me – really…so let me ask you a question…..did your mother and I
raise you to respond to her the way you did?
Son – silent
Me – Cause if everything WE CHOOSE to do is the result of how we were raised, then YOUR actions are saying that YOUR MOTHER, who stood home to raise you, and I did a piss poor job.
Bottom line son is that X gf is responsible for HER actions - we all are. We can give ourselves excuses if we want but at the end of the day each of us chooses how we live, react, respond and deal with everything in our life. SO EVEN if her mom did cheat, her D STILL made a choice to do it.
Son – okay so I was wrong
Me – Yes you were out of line. It is okay to be angry.
Son – well I needed to vent
Me – don’t you have a therapist to do that with?
Son – yes but I still needed to vent
Me – Understood, then maybe you should give some thought to other ways to vent.
Son – well I am sorry.
Me – BTW, her mother could have made a complaint against your mother and I.
Son – why…I did it…you guys didn’t
Me – cause right now you are still in minor in the eyes of society.
Son – that makes not sense.
Me – it is what it is. In any event she is not going to make a complaint against you. I am going to call her back.
Son – Well I am sorry.
Me – Do you feel that you owe her mother an apology?
Son – maybe but her D is still a cheating slut. Ya know I allowed her in the family. We took and accepted her in and she cheats on my brother.
Me – YOUR brother made the CHOICE to date her. It was HIS CHOICE. SO it was his issues to deal with and I believe he did.
Son – well he is my brother
Me – Yes he is and he loves you very much and I know that you love him very much. That said, it is not YOUR job to always protect him. He is a big boy and can take care of himself. Did he ask you your opinion? Did he ask for your help?
Son – no but he is my brother.
Me – I understand that. When your girlfriend cheated on you did he go on to facebook and blast her and her mother.
Son – No.
Me – can you see where you may have gone wrong.
Son – Maybe
Me – Son, I have said this to you before, everyone is responsible for their actions. They are responsible for there choices. Maybe your brother just needed you to listen. Maybe he did nto need you to try and rescue him. Son, sometime we need to let people learn and grow on their own. We need to let them live their lives and be their for them when and IF they want us to be. It was a lesson that your brother needed to learn. That said, I do understand how much you love your brother.
Son – I have to go to work.
Me – I will contact son X’s mom and apologize on your behalf.
Mach, it was an interesting exchange. The funny thing is that STBXW was standing there and did not say much at all. I dealt with my son as a father. I tried to validate and correct him where I could. So hopefully the above exchange answer your question of what am I showing him. If not, here is my answer to that question.
I am showing him how to…..
be respectful to women
that he is NOT entitled to do or say whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
What a man and father is
Showing him compassion and understanding
At the end of the day I am his father and as someone so eloquently reminded me…I am the template of what a father is. What I am trying to show him is RESPECT….respect for others, respect for his parents, respect for himself.
Once again, thank you all for your responses.
Final update....I had one kick butt weekend!
God Bless,
Eric
Me: I will contact son X's mom and apologize on your behalf.
That is the only thing you said I have a problem with Eric.
If your asking for other's fathers points of view, this one is mine.
Accountability.
Where is his if your going to apologize for him?
E, I completely agree with J3B ... you saved him.
Jack / PEI
Appreciate the response and I see your point. I did call to appologize initally, as the x girlfrients mother was quite upset. That said, I did tell my oldest son that he would need to appologize directly to the mother.
So...I did "save" for the time being given the sensativity of the sitch (I was amazed and disgusted at what my son wrote), AND made him accountable.
Eric
Jack / PEI
Appreciate the response and I see your point. I did call to appologize initally, as the x girlfrients mother was quite upset. That said, I did tell my oldest son that he would need to appologize directly to the mother.
So...I did "save" for the time being given the sensativity of the sitch (I was amazed and disgusted at what my son wrote), AND made him accountable.
Eric
You saved him from the true consequences of his actions by being the buffer. Now when he apologizes he won't feel the impact. You can "I know, I know" your way through this one if you want E, but I'm sorry ... I still see it as saving and fixing. Sensitive or not, it was HIS responsibility to mend the fence ... now he's not accountable, he's going to merely go through the motions, all the while knowing Daddy already took care of it and softened whatever consequences (her outrage/reaction) might be naturally occuring.
IMHO of course
Peace
PEI
PEI,
I disagree. Without getting into too much details, the mother was upset enough to take actions that my son is too young and stupid to comprehend i.e lawsuit against not him...his parents.
In his anger, he may have responded back in a manner that made the sitch worse for everyone involved rather make it worse for me.
Thier is a time and place for these type of lessons - this one was not one of them. Leaving him to confront the woman directly (and trust me she was not thinking rationally either) would have been a disaster. Would it have taught him a lesson...yes...at what expense? To prove a point to "force" him to see something.
Nah...this was not the time. It was time to show him some of what he needs to learn. We all learn at different paces, throwing someone to wolves is not always the correct action. Although it would have felt good.
Eric
E,
Whoa! I didn't say throw him to the wolves (nor did I insinuate that you should throw yourself to the wolves to teach him a lesson) ... and sure, you folks live in a much more litigious society than I do, so I sometimes forget about that side of it. HOWEVER, I still think that apologizing ON HIS BEHALF is the potential mistake here. You can have a conversation with her, explain your intention and actions as his parent, express your own remorse for the situation at hand etc. But you said you were calling her to apologize on his behalf. I'd want him scared. He should be. He acted like an a$$. Oh, and having him confront her? Who said anything about confronting? If it's too potentially explosive to have him make the apology in person or via the telephone ... a good old fashioned letter might be the answer. I'd also make him put it in the mailbox in person ... but I'm kinda "mean" like that
Just my 2 cents E ...
PEI
Eric - very tough situation that you handled overall very well. Right or wrong - I probably would have made the initial call too - as deep down I believe that if my kid is under 18 I am responsible. Still would make him call and do the same. Like I said - have no idea whats right or wrong - just gut.
Hi PEI! Was wondering about you the other day!
Without getting into too much details, the mother was upset enough to take actions that my son is too young and stupid to comprehend i.e lawsuit against not him...his parents.
In his anger, he may have responded back in a manner that made the sitch worse for everyone involved rather make it worse for me.
And here is the rub...
E, you were protecting yourself and maybe rightfully so...
Personally, I think I would have been present either on the phone or better yet, in person to MONITOR his words and her reactions. Smoothing things over with her (as an adult) after the fact if need be...
While not throwing him to the wolves, there is a time, place, and age where they have to hold responsibility for themselves. 18 is the magic LEGAL age, but those are lessons that they should be learning before then...
E
When you copied the last post on your old thread on here to be your first post...
Well it's almost time to start another thread just with that one.
Jus Sayin'
Hope you had a good time over the weekend swimming in your barbie onesy.
Awww, am I the only one seeing the white elephant standing in the room? Is it just possible that his lashing out like he did, his true anger was at someone other than the ex gf or her Mom?. It seems his statements might have been aimed a bit closer to home, but he is not quite up to stating it.
I assume son is not blind to what has been going on with his parents and probably knows more than you would wish. His anger might have been more directed at the woman standing next to him with her head down. Just sayin' . . . .
Otherwise, I think you handled things beautifully, Eric, and wish my XH could have been so wise a father figure. I do agree with JTB and Pei, but it is far easier to say than to do when it comes to the protection of our own children, even if we know that is the 'tough love' that they need. Their hurt is our hurt x 10.
Top shelf Eric.
Too many dads would have either not been around to hear their son or high-fived him.
It's way too easy to second guess what you said. When the fur is flying, keeping your composure the way you did is impressive.
Eric,
Sorry I was not more available during the weekend festivities!!
Hope you guys had fun!!!!
I think you did a fine job with regards to your son........we can disect what you said and did nine different ways to h@ll and back.......
at the end of the day you acted as a father......
Right, wrong or indifferent......you acted......Bravo!!!
I would say that you have laid a good foundation for repairing that R with your son. You "respectfully" advised him and it sounds like he listened.......
Now.....let it soak in.
Cheers
All
I wanted to provide everyone with an update as well as journal what has transpired over the past few weeks. I was not going to post some of this and did not for a while but I feel it important to put it out here.
Here goes….
In Mid May I was informed that STBXW’s lawyer had filed a several motions in court. In short, they were seeking 1) full custody, 2) lifetime alimony 3) a motion to have me pay her legal fees 4) determination and payment of alimony and child support immediately and 5) that I pay all household expenses (i.e. mortgage, electric, oil, etc.) immediately . Note: Since I left the marital home, I have continue to pay exactly what I was paying while I was living in the home, although not legally required to do this, I did it for several reasons..1) I felt it was the right thing to do and 2) I have continued to try and handle this D process the best way I can. Having said this I was amazed at the motions that were filed as was my attny. We contacted STBXW’s L and she agreed on Friday to not move forward with the motions on Wednesday 5/18, since we were already scheduled to be in court on 5/20. In preparation for the 5/20 court date, I scheduled an appt with my attny for 5/17.
On Monday, 5/16, W’s L marked the motions “ready” which meant that she was moving forward (even though on Friday she said she was not). I asked my L to find out why she agreed to hold off on these motions on Friday only to move forward on Monday. My L never received a call back.
I kept my appt with my L on 5/17 and we discussed how it made no sense the W’s attny moved forward with these. I also pointed out to my attny that on Wednesday STBXW was scheduled to take D to a school trip. My attny commented that she thought that this was unfair to my D and decided to call STBXW attny that moment (it was about 5:30 pm). I was in her office when she was speaking with W’s attny. It was an interesting conversation – STBXW’s attny said that she has not had a chance to review the offer that was submitted by my L and she just forwarded it to STBXW – who apparently flipped out and did not understand it. W’s attny agreed that we should cancel Wednesday, especially given that W was supposed to take D to a school function. W’s attny contacted STBXW who said “NO – this needs to move forward – it has dragged on to long”. W’s attny tried to explain to W that we already had a date two days later set. W said she did not care that she needed money and needed the security. So at the last minute I ended up having to go to court.
When I arrived W was there alone. She looked lost. She looked a little sad. I did not say anything other than do you know where the attny’s are. She said no. I remember looking at her and thinking…..why did this need to happen, this [censored] big time and it was at court that I realized just how lost she is. This is really about what SHE wants. I also realized just how much part of me has come to totally understand and respect it. I guess I finally came to realize that she is entitled to make and live HER choices. I am ONLY responsible for mine. I stood looking at her….damn…this really [censored]. [censored] for the kids, [censored] for me – I guess though, that she is happy. All of sudden….while I am standing there feeling this compassion and sadness…I see a women walking down the aisle…crying. She had just lost her kids to her H. I got angry…angry at STBXW, angry at the whole process. I had to remind myself that I helped put myself in this position and although she is in her own crisis, I must own my piece. I did not wallow in guilt just an acknowledgement of my role.
My attny arrived a few minutes later and we secured a conference room. We invited STBXW into the room so that she did not have to stand out in the hallway and she declined. My attny and I sat in the room and she explained to me a few things 1) her legal strategy 2) that she felt that STBXW did not have a case to request full custody and 4) that she would try and speak with STBXW L, whom she felt is totally unorganized, about seeing if we could use the time in the court to address some of the other unresolved issues. What I will say before getting into the details is that almost everything I hope to accomplish I did.
As I was sitting in the “room” it was a weird feeling. In one way it was a feeling of calm and peace and on another a feeling of sadness. About 1 ½ hrs later Mary Ann’s attny walked in with Mary Ann. Greetings ensued and both attnys agreed to start discussing the topics that I had sent to my attny via email. The first topic was custody. To say that the conversation ended up getting intense would be an understatement. Some of the key points were …
• My L to STBXW – “you seem to be holding on to these kids like they are only yours. I do not understand why they cannot be with their father on the days that you are working late”. STBXW had no real reason. Both L’s agreed to “liberal and free access as it relates to the parenting plan”. In short, the lawyers both agreed that WE both should be able to see the children as often as we wanted (in addition to the parenting plan). This prompted the next discussion.
• I argued that STBXW does not communicate with me as it relates to the children. I brought up examples where I would send her a text on the days that she was scheduled to have the children but would never respond. Both L’s agreed to a court order that says the STBXW must respond to a phone call from me within 24 hours and MUST initiate a weekly email to me every Sunday with a status on what is going on with the children and any schedule changes.
• The Parenting Plan – here is where STBXW really did not help her case. In her proposed schedule, I would have the kids (and my dog) on Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and every other Friday. STBXW currently is off every Sunday and Friday. I asked that we change the schedule to Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and every other TUESDAY instead of Friday. My rational was that since it is STBXW day off it would be good for the children to be with her. STBXW said that she wanted to leave it the way it was (in short, she gets every Saturday night to herself and every other Friday night to herself). My attny made a comment to the effect that she found it interesting that STBXW WANTS the kids so much but does not want them on her days off. This made STBXW attny look at her client in amazement. Although I wanted to change the schedule I decided that this point was not worth arguing and said “fine leave it the way it is”.
• The next topic was probably the most heated one. STBXW wants “primary residence”. My attny asked WHY? If you have agreed to 50/50 custody – why do you need primary residence? What purpose does it serve? STBXW could only answer with…it is what I have wanted all along. My attny said…but why …for what purpose? STBXW could not answer. She started to get teary eyed. She could not answer the question. I asked her (note I realized afterword’s that I was rescuing again) is it because you want the school bus stop to be at your house? She said yes? My attny said then fine, but since I am going to write the agreement please know that it will have no legal significance other than for “school purposes”. At this point STBXW got really angry. Accusation started flying about ME allowing the kids to do whatever they wanted, about me having the kids friends over on school nights, about me having the kids girlfriends over. She went on to say the friends the kids are not of good character and that their parents did not know where they are. I would say that at this point, the calmness I had went right out the f*cking window; although I was not screaming I was NOT going to tolerate these accusation – so I responded. Point 1 – As it relates to the kids friends over OUR house during the week…this is NO different than when I was living in YOUR house STBXW. We both have raised our children to feel comfortable with kids at our house. We allow this so that WE can watch them and know where they are. Maybe your views have changed since then– mine have not. Point 2 – Yes the boys girlfriends…actually my middle sons girlfriend has been over during the school week and baring one or two times she is gone by 8:30 PM – YOU on the other hand STBXW…have allowed our sons girlfriends to be in YOUR house during the week when NO ONE is home. For example I went over a few weeks ago to drop something off and our oldest son was in the house with his girlfriend in his room by himself. Not only were they alone but she was laying in his bed. So really STBXW..really…not good character. Pont 3 regarding the kid’s friends. I do not claim to know what every kid’s home life is like. What I can tell you is that they are good kids as are most kids. They also are in the house with ME an adult, not walking the streets and getting into trouble. Bottom line STBXW..is that YOU do not know these kids. That is when my attny jumped in and said to STBXW…Miss X…you will need to understand that just as YOU do not want Mr ericmsant to tell you what you can and cannot do in YOUR house, you cannot tell him what to do in his. Are you suggesting that my client is not a good father? Her response – NO. My attny went on to say to BOTH of us..that in the perfect world the two of you would be able to discuss thing but obviously you cannot. Miss STBXW since you have already shown that you have difficulty communicating with my client I am going to suggest that we put in a court order that requires you to send my client a weekly email on Sunday with any parenting issues that you have. At this point STBXW brought up the flexible parenting plan again and said that sometime our middle son want to go over to his father house on HER day. I responded and said yes STBXW, but that is why the agreement says “flexible” I also pointed out that when our middle son asks me I always say to him to ask his mother and if she is okay with it so am I. At this point my L said to me…ericmsant2, you should be contacting her directly. I responded I try but she never returns a call nor does she respond to text. STBXW response was because I am driving. I said I understand that but you never respond. She had no comment. At this point my L said that going forward part of the agreement would be that STBXW is to return my call within 24 hours and that IF she cannot be reached that I would make the decision on if my son could come over. STBXW’s attny chimed in and said yes Mary Ann, as teenager they tend to want to make their own plans and since Mr. ericmsant2 is available they should feel comfortable with going to their fathers house. I suggest that you two discuss this in the weekly email. FTR, the weekly email is now a court order.
At this point, the two attny suggested that before we tackle some of the more difficult issues that STBXW and I step outside the room.
X and I were outside the room for about an hour and a half. We both went out to have a smoke and all of a sudden STBXW, started to talk to me about what is going on with our oldest son (first time she had done this in months). She said that his is having panic attacks and is very stressed out. She said that only his therapist can calm him down and she thinks it has to do with his girlfriend. It took everything inside of me to now go off on her. I wanted so bad to tell her that SHE did not help this. That as a result of some of her actions, her now feels like the man of the house and feels he needs to take care of her. I wanted to remind her of the things that she has said to him that place her in a victim role but I did not. What I did say was that he is 17 years old and dealing with the stress of all of this. Some of this is the entire process and some of it is just the result of being 17. She said she did not feel that the D was causing him any stress. I then went on to say that I have made a choice to leave him alone, that I love him with all of my heart and that I am here for him whenever he wants me. I also said that what he will need to learn is that ALL of, will deal with the result of the choices that they have made in their lives and that I have decided that the best thing for him, at least IMO, is for him to feel and experience whatever he feels he needs to go thru. I reiterated how much I loved him and said I would call later. I also said, that I appreciated that she was taking the time to let me know what is going on with him. She said thank you. I walked away and she stood outside…and pulled out her phone to make a call. About ½ hour later the attny called me and asked us to come back in. We did, and they decided to take an hour break and meet again at 2pm. As we walked outside, my attny pulled me aside to let me know what transpired in the room between her and STBXW attny.
Here is what my attny said to me.
Ericmsant2….STBXW attny is having issues with her client. Her client is unrealistic and has no sense of what is equitable. My attny said that STBXW L is trying hard to get her client to realize that she is not going to get everything.
My attny said.... ericmsant2, if she could have taken the crumbs off of your dinner plate she would. She wants everything. She then went on to say that STBXW attny understands just how unrealistic her client is being.
Bottom line, the most important thing to me is time with my kids. The second most important thing is my financial security.
A good friend of mine asked me what my vision was for myself now. Here is my answer….
I see myself as a kick as* single dad.
I see myself happy although I know that I still have feelings that I must deal with
I see myself learning how to live on a very tight budget
I see myself alone at least from a relationship standpoint
I see a time of growth for me
I see a maturity in me that was not present until all of this happened
I see the man that I wanted to be…..in sight…I see him….
I see a relationship with my STBXW that is functional
I see my oldest in my life….
I see some tears that still must be shed…
And I see a bright future, one that will have some bumps and challenges…but a bright future none the less.
The above text was drafted about ½ months ago…
Since then the following has happened:
1) My oldest has begun to stay at my house with his two younger sibilings.
2) My middle son continues to be amazing. He is an amazing kid. Has a heart of gold.
3) My life is filled with happiness…. I still have my days from time to time…but the sense of peace I feel is wonderful.
4) STBXW is slightly more “reasonable”…although I just received word from my Attny on her latest request.
In closing, I leave you with this….dealing with an MLCer is tough…really tough…think of it (at least in my sitch) as trying to deal with a teenager. You say the sky is blue they have to say it is RED. They don’t know why…they just have to. The best thing to do is stay out of the way, go find your happiness, leave’m alone and hand them over to God. Expect nothing. Protect yourself at all times. They can change like the wind, nice one day, distant the next, etc.
Realize that a lot of times, they truly are in their own world. What matters is what THEY want and they will do whatever it is they feel they need to do to get it. So the sooner you let go and let God the better YOU will be.
Have a happy fourth of July everyone and I can’t wait until 8/26 & 8/27….party at casa d ericmsant2…
Love…..never lose it…even for your spouse….as hard at it may be…find yourself and maybe just maybe you will reconcile. That was not the path for me. My path is mine to write, my to walk. I thank my STBXW in a way, I will always be thankful and grateful of the good times we had, for our children, and for “us”.
We had ups and downs, chit…we had some sideways but I don’t want to x-rated on this (he, he, he)….No seriously, my hope and prayer is that she find what it is that she is looking for. Maybe one day, she will come to realize how much I was in love with her. Actually I still do love her, just not in that way. The person that she is now is not the person that I would want in my life.
Oh…and for some of you that are coming to the party, I will try and email the details this weekend.
God Bless,
Eric
I will try and email the details this weekend.
I have an extra calendar if you need to know when "this weekend" is.......
Cheers
~LOTR
Great post Eric.
What a journey eh? Damn it's tough. I always will love your honesty man. Keep keeping it real. Fwiw, it's ok to get mad Bro. It really is. It's how you choose to move forward. Hell, I read your post and I got mad, then sad, and then mad again. What's cool is it only lasts for a little bit now, right? Stay strong Bro.
Man I wish I could come to the party. I just flat out can't afford it. My financial baggage runs thick like molasses. It's an honor to know you and thanks for all your help.
Side note, MF'r when are you going to return my call?
I don't think I can make it in Aug I will still be reading your post.
... read it on the plane ...
There you go. Problem solved.
Eric,
Finally, after slogging for days through each of your threads, I finished reviewing your sitch. Each of ours has a different spin, but I have to say, what a saga yours has been. And Dude, I have to say I am sorry you've had to go through this. But each of us has to, so there it is.
Just a few observations ...
1) Hindsight is 20/20, but it appears each of you staying in the same house never allowed that introspective time for each of you to continue your journeys and begin healing. In effect, both of you became stuck in the same tunnel. And inside that tunnel, familiarity only bred contempt on her part as your W was constantly faced with her guilt. In the beginning she was very cordial, and I can see how you would be hopeful and want to stay in the marital home. Over time, your sitch deteriorated steeply, and ended up causing you immeasurable anguish and issues for your kids. That said, it is clear you did become the dad you knew you could be. Clearly, you are a good man with big, big heart.
2) I find it interesting that throughout all your threads, you never mention (until May 2011) the dating / R you had with other women. It is if you had compartmentalized this aspect of your life and hid it away. You poured your heart of about everything else, but never brought this to light. I wonder why? Just curious.
3) Your W is in such obvious pain. It is hard to say where she will end up. Her pain makes it evident how much she knows she's just how much and whom she is losing in this process. She just cannot understand why she's doing it. She's in the tunnel. So sad. I know you miss the old W. I bet she was a wonderful W and mother. I feel pain for your loss Eric. I really do. Maybe now she can finally continue her journey (and you too).
4) You definitely spent the time for soul searching (with great success I might add). You are in inspiration in being honest with one's self and making good use of those 2x4's!
5) Your sitch to continue living with your STBXW definitely handicapped you in many ways. I'm curious, what would you have done differently? Maybe nothing. You called your shots the best you could and played your cards as they were dealt. However, that is the past. The only questions now are how will you do things differently in the future?
6) I can see how both of us slowly killed our M's with our drive and ambition to provide for our families. Financially we were rock stars, and our intentions were nobel, but fundamentally flawed. Emotionally, we abandoned our W's and must now pay that price. I am sorry we both had to learn this lesson, but learn we must.
7) Your D is not yet final. Makes for a less than ideal summer with that always in the background. Keep your chin up and keep doing what you're doing to take of yourself and your kids. I know you will.
Thanks for sharing so much.
Peace be with you Eric.
World.
Wow….
My thread is still around
I have not posted in a while and have spent the past few days thinking about my sitch. A lot of thoughts, which I wanted to get down on “paper”..
Tomorrow I am scheduled to be divorced and although I am okay with it, it is still a sad day. I started to think about what it will be like being divorced. I started to think about this entire process. Started to think about STBXW. Started to think about OM #1, OM#2. Started to think about what it will be like seeing her or her seeing me with someone else. What it will be like for my kids. Started to think about MY ROLE in all of this. I know I did not cause her crisis, but honestly a M does not end by just one person. Started to think about how she is on her own path and I on mine. I started to think about the M, my kids, my in-laws, our friends. Started to think about my buds, MHL and Grit, started to think about Gritty’s last post…chit…I pretty much thought about everything today.
What I finally realized…looking past the hurt…is that –
I am success! Some of you may not understand this statement (especially if you are new), some of you will. I am a success because I am different now! Very different. I feel different. I think differently.
I came here a while ago (seems like an eternity to me
). So broken, hurt, frustrated, angry, depressed,totally just messed up. Yep - not a hope in the world. A man lost. I came here to try and “fix” my STBXW. Try to understand her and her crisis. Try to save the M using a bunch of tactics. What I found in this process was a little boy who never dealt with his past hurts and who carried all of his baggage into his M. What I found is how dysfunctional both W and I were. What I found is how codependent we both were.
What I found is that the M was not healthy. I say this not as an excuse. No. Could it have worked? Yep? Could we have worked hard at it and pieced it back together? Yep. This though, is not the way that it ended up. Is it all her fault…all the result of her MLC crisis? Nope. It was and will always have been the result of both of our actions or lack of actions.
Today I stand here a work in progress but so much better than where I was. Is the “work” done? Not by a long shot.
When I first came here…I thought the site would have the magic pill that would save my marriage what I found is that this site…helped not just me…but more importantly, it helped my kids, my friends, my in-laws and even my STBXW. It helped me through the process, helped with the pain, the loneliness, the hopelessness, the despair…oh I can go on and on.
So I decided to…for myself….write down…why I feel I am success.
- I am 10 times a better father than I ever was.
- I have come to accept my imperfections. I am not perfect. Never was, never will be and I am okay with that. It is this acceptance of who I am at this point in time in my life that is a far cry from who I was.
- I have learned to listen more now – more than I ever have before in my life. Learned to focus on the words that someone says.
- I am financially more responsible – though not perfect…much better than where I was.
- I am a much better friend.
- I now understand some of the dynamics and quite honestly issues that made me do some of the things I did. Are they all fixed now? Nope. Some will require work that will take time. I am though….okay with where I am – for now.
- I faced
most of my fears… the fear of losing her, the fear of losing my kids, the fear of losing my family, the fear of failure, the fear of coming to terms and being honest with myself (and ftr, I still give myself a free pass every now and then but hey I am…a work in progress), the fear of a change in lifestyle. So many damn fears. I have learned to sit back and consider why I do what I do or why I say what I say. Is it fear? It is this question that I ask myself often.
- I came to understand a lot about myself.
- I learned to value myself…yep…one of things that I came to realize is that I did not value myself in the M…therefore how in the hell could I have valued someone else.
- I learned about HEALTHY boundaries. That are needed for me and more importantly how to RESPECT others boundaries.
- I learned about protecting one self and what detachment is really about (and FTR, I sure as hell am no expert).
- I found my faith and my R with God again. Something that was lost for a while but thank God found again.
- I became comfortable being me. Something that as a co dependant is tough. I learned to recognize just how much I wanted to please everyone and better yet…WHY I wanted to please people.
- I found my sense of humor again…
- I found some of the best friends in the world. Friends that I will have and cherish for a long time. People that I am PROUD to call my friends. People that challenge me (even when I fight them) to be the best I can be.
- I found my inner strength; although I still have my own pitty parties every now and then.
- I found LOVE…a love for life, a love for peace, a love for bonds that will forever be in my heart. I found that I can love someone else. I found that I…with all my fault…with all my past…can be loveable.
- I found acceptance. I accept that my STBXW and I are no longer to be and that is okay. I thank her for the time we did have together.
- I recently found the
compassion that I lost for a while as I sat home…pissed, angry and the entire D process. (thank YOU…and you know who you are)
- I found that we should be grateful for what we do have in our lives. That no matter how difficult it seems, no matter how high the mountain appears….that it is NOT insurmountable.
- I found the difference between loving someone in an unhealthy way and loving someone is a healthy way.
- I found forgiveness…or better yet…I found that forgiveness takes time…takes work…takes effort.
- I found that I am responsible for my happiness and that NO ONE else can make me happy if I am not happy with ME.
- I found that people are in your lives for a period of time and usually for a reason. I understand that sometime and in my case, quite often you do not know what the reason is UNTIL AFTER.
- I learned about the characteristic that can destroy a R. Pride. Resentment. Anger.
- I learned to let go (or as much as I could)…to let God. To live life the best way I can.
- I learned that although we tend to look at things as and END….that the reality is that for every END is….a NEW BEGINNING.
- I learned that our lives are what we make of them.
- I learned that all of us, MLCer, LBSer, everyone sows what we reap. I stress this to the LBSer…who comes here does work..and then seems to forget their role in their specific sitch. How often we forget….
- I learned about expectations…..damn I hate’em.
- I learned that I was given a gift, a gift from God, a gift from my W.
- I learned that I, ericmsant is a flawed human being…and I am okay with that…cause I know..I do the best that I can.
- I learned about the dreams I had…rather I found them again. Some will take more time than others to achieve…but a life without dreams…is not a life worth living.
Many thanks to all of you…who have walked this path with me!
I wanted to end this post with a short note to my STBXW
STBXW,
Thank you. Thank you for the time that we had together. Thank you for my wonderful children. Thank you for the good memories. For my part in all of this – I am truly sorry. Thank you for this gift, the gift of self.
I hope and pray that at some point in the future we can look back on this time and laugh about it.
God Bless,
Eric
Eric,
I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this, and being able to express it so well. I feel a lot of these things are successes in my own life, as well. I'm having a weird evening myself, and it hopes to be able to count your blessings as well as see your shortcomings.
By the way, I hope you had a killer B/D
Great stuff man.
Peace for you tomorrow and always.
Eric this is all so true, you have worked so hard and gained so much despite what you've lost. You are a success. What makes you an even bigger success is that you are so humbled AND yet so strong from this experience that you will fully work to keep growing and keep becoming a better person.
Your line about the gift of self, that's it in a nutshell. We lost marriages that were dying and we gained ourselves in the process. Perhaps we will be married again someday, perhaps we will choose not to be; who knows? But whatever we have in store, we are entering that next phase of our lives as much better people than we were.
We're all with you tomorrow in the pain and in the promise of what's to come.
My sweet friend, you have grown so very much. Kicking and screaming part of the way. LOL!
You are an incredible man, E. One with so much heart and strength. These are my wishes for you:
That you continue to grow and learn.
That you have many wonderful times with your children, family and friends.
That you never forget the path you walked.
That you know everyday that He holds you in His hands.
That you know how much you've touched all of us.
That you have peace in all your days.
E, you will be in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow.
Dignity, courage and strength, my friend. You have shown all three.
(((Eric)))
Who'd have ever thought in the beginning of this that so much pain could bring forth so many blessings?
Take those things that you've worked so hard for and live your life to the fullest being the man that you've become and continue to become.
My thoughts and prayers are with you today.
Peace.
Well from the ashes you will begin to rebuild.
As that is what was meant to be.
The house will be burnt all the way to the ground and now you
will have a new life that is better than the one you are leaving behind.
Good luck DUDE remain strong
Will be thinking about you today man.
Be Strong........
Cheers
~C
Thanks for sharing Eric...and good luck today. I am myself a little scared....our one year date is drawing near and Im afraid of how I will react when the time comes to hear "divorce". It terrifies me.
Trying to work through it though.
Thank you SA, MHL, Cadet, B, Antonia, Pun and Country.
I wanted to keep journaling exactly how I am feeling….
A few minutes ago I received a call from the attny that I am to be in court at 1pm.
So how do I feel?
A few words come to mind…
Sad, nervous, anxious, emotional, relief….wow…I seem to be cycling through a host of different emotions.
The L's have decided to meet prior to the actual divorce to see if STBXW and I can hash out the remaining open issues, which are:
- Official Parenting Plan: I have requested Wed, Thursday and every other Friday, Sat and Sun. STBXW wants me to have them Thurs, Friday, Saturday and every other Wed. I am willing to accept Wed, Thur, Friday and every other Saturday with 12 full weekends a year (Fri – Sun). The good news..is that a 50/50 custody agreement has been reached.
- College: STBXW originally agreed that her and I would deal with this outside of the court. The new request is to have the court reserve jurisdiction. My hope is to secure an acceptance on my oldest, whereby we split the cost 50/50 and let the court reserve jurisdiction for the two younger ones.
- Cohabitation: STBXW want no change in alimony regardless of her cohabitation status for the next six years. In short, she wants alimony even if she were to remarry or live with someone else. In addition, she has requested that if I cohabitate that the alimony remain non-modifable for the next 10 years. My response here is GO F yourself.
- Salary Cap: In an attempt to avoid having to go back to court every year, I have requested what is called a safe harbor. This provides a safety net for both of us. What it means is that if my salary (excluding bonus) remains less than a 25% increase to my current income that STBXW cannot take me back for more alimony. The same rule applies to her. This is a fight since OM is her supervisor and she has already turned down a promotion. It was turned down since it would mean that I would pay her less. My goal here is to stick to my guns and keep the salary cap language in the aggrement.
- Bonus: STBXW has requested 40% of the bonus dollars on a pre-tax basis. I have offered 20%. My goal settle at 25%.
- Global Support: Alimony and Child Support. We have already agreed to not modify the child support when my oldest turns 18 (this Dec). The current structure has her receiving more alimony than all 3 kids combined. This will be the biggest battle.
Prayer are appreciated….. I may not post for a few days as I sort out how I feel. As usual, I will have a lot to say.
As the time is ticking…the feeling are washing over me. Funny thing…I don’t feel scared….if anything…I feel more sadness mixed with some anger. The anger comes from how this process was dealt with. I know it will not remain…I CHOOSE for it not to remain…but damn…I still feel it.
Today, I will have my kids with me. I wanted them with me today!
Today, we will start our new journey….me as a single kick as* dad with his little girl in his arms and his boys by his side…. Them, as children from divorce. Wrong? No...just different.
Today we are going to have steak for dinner (daddy style)!
I’m gonna have a beer and maybe watch a movie with the kiddies.
As for STBXW……
I have no idea. I hope she finds what she is looking for and find her happiness.
Eric
E - just read both of your posts. I can't really say anything that hasn't been said by all of your friends above. You are strong and you can do this. I personally am looking forward to your anger subsiding once the papers are signed. We have talked about this and I know you are working on it
You and I are a lot a like, and that is why we are such good friends. Niether of us like to be alone, we talk to much and we both have so much compassion for others.
oh and did I mention we talk to much
on this day, i hope you remember the love and compassion for your X. She needs it today more than you probably.
As I told T the other day, the wings of your guardian angel that have been wrapped around you for two years will finally open and you will be free to fly.
love and hugs will be with you from us all as you go to court.
Eric,
My thoughts are with today.
Just one cautionary note: Those sound like a lot of open contentious issues. A lot to settle in a pre-trial meeting.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
That being said ....
Strength and honor my friend.
Thinking of you today buddy!
Peace!
Tad
E, your w should see what I got.....nothing, except his debt. Then maybe she would be more reasonable.
Fair with dignity and strength. Those are the goals.
Eric Sir,
My prayers and thoughts are with you. Having gone through this now
I know without a doubt you are clearing the road ahead for the next
chapter.
You have shared much with us all and it has truly helped me on my journey through a tough time.
As always, you know how to reach me at anytime.
WS
Thank you everyone for you well wishes and prayers.
For those of you not in the know…
I am now legally divorced.
I feel good, I really do.
The remaining legal issues were resolved and I would say that both of us walked away with what we wanted (as much as that is possible). I wanted the kiddies, she wanted money, which I think she feels is security. I get it.
I have the kids legally now every Wed, Thur, Friday and every other Saturday (although more often than not they will be with me all day Saturday and/or spend Saturday night with me).
She will receive 10 years worth of alimony payments, which I find a bit hard to swallow especially given that her alimony is more than what all three kids receive combined.
I will be okay though.....that much I know right in the core of my soul.
Some of the anger that I was carrying around seems to have been lifted and for that I thank God.
I am now focused on the following for me:
• Continuing to be a kick butt dad.
• Focus on improving the healthy boundaries with the kids. Yes my daughter is spoiled rotten and I need to start changing this asap.
• Focus on improving my R with my oldest, who still vacillate between being a distant son and an open communicative one (I have to keep reminding myself that he is going to be 18 in Dec and part of this is normal teenager behavior).
• Get myself to see a doctor and begin getting my butt back in the gym. I have put back on 15 of the damn there 70 lbs I lost in this process and FTR, I don’t want to lose my figure (he..he).
• Turning in my leased Jeep (I think people will hear me crying in Europe). I have made a little bet with myself that if next years bonus is good that I will take a few grand and purchase an old used Jeep (I NEED..yes I said NEED – LOL – my jeep in the summer). Also getting a few repairs done to my new truck.
• Focus on knocking down my debt profile, which by my estimates, would be almost zero in 2 years (assuming I get similar bonuses that I have received the past few years).
• Heal – I really want to give my body and emotions a break. It was a long two years. Yet 2 years that in a weird way I am grateful for. I would not be the me of today if it were not for this nightmare.
• Continue to work on the things about myself that I need to work on. Although, I do acknowledge that this takes time so I am not PUSHING myself to the point of no sleep, etc. Nah..just let God and nature take over.
• Learning the best way to interact with XW. For me, I have put up some serious walls/boundaries, that I will follow to the T. At this point, I need to minimize the amount of exposure that I have with XW so that I can continue to heal and get rid of the remaining pieces of anger that I still feel. I also really do not have a desire in the least to interact with her on any level.
- Plan the next Live little Friday (cause the one I planned turned to chit)...thoughts bounced around were Vegas.
• Get the career back on track and
• Finally, begin to post a little more…..I will always be grateful for these boards and the men and women who gave of themselves to help me become what I am today, which is a NY born and raised, tutu wearing, swearing, compassionate metro, dorky Puerto Rican (LMAO).
God Bless,
Eric
which is a NY born and raised, tutu wearing, swearing, compassionate metro, dorky Puerto Rican (LMAO).
I am proud of you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! keep working and living your life.
- Plan the next Live little Friday (cause the one I planned turned to chit)
Hey next time don't plan it around a hurricane!!!
JK that was out of your control.
- Plan the next Live little Friday (cause the one I planned turned to chit)
Hey next time don't plan it around a hurricane!!!
JK that was out of your control.
there are no hurricanes in Vegas BAYBEE!!! As T said, it would be EPIC.
I'm wearing my glasses today instead of contacts since I scratched my eye, and so sometimes I don't see things correctly at first glance as I'm not used to them.
Hence, when I read E's post above, I didn't see "tutu-wearing, swearing...."
Nope. I saw "tutu-wearing, sweating...."
Needless to say I thought that version of the sentence was hysterical ;-)
I'm wearing my glasses today instead of contacts since I scratched my eye, and so sometimes I don't see things correctly at first glance as I'm not used to them.
Hence, when I read E's post above, I didn't see "tutu-wearing, swearing...."
Nope. I saw "tutu-wearing, sweating...."
Needless to say I thought that version of the sentence was hysterical ;-)
OMG!!! so funny!! although I haven't seen E sweat...I have seen him covered head to toe in red sea algea! It was the most disgusting thing I had ever seen! ROFLMAO!! I couldn't even look at him he was like a monster!
I have seen him covered head to toe in red sea algea!
Ever had a moment where ya think....I'll never live this down. Well everyone I just had one.
Eric
funniest darn thing ever!!!! i am am laughing out load right now just thinking about it!
Just caught up on your sitch E. I've been trying to limit exposure to W and continue GAL-ing. Sorry I missed the day that begins your next adventure.
But it sounds as though your attitude is good. Selfishly, I am comforted to know you still are experiencing anger. As I cross the two year mark and now hear my W demanding D, I do get angry. But your path offers a fantastic example to follow.
Congratulations.
- Plan the next Live little Friday (cause the one I planned turned to chit)...thoughts bounced around were Vegas.
Oooh! Count me in!
I think Swiss Miss is going to have to plan the October annual Live Little Friday!!!!!
I think you're right!! Time to pull the ole cowboy cheese hat out of the closet!!!
WS
Probably just busy living life.
Hope the boys are good.
Question being, if Live Little Friday happened in Vegas, and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, would any of us ever come home????
I have not posted an update in what feels like years for me. Brace yourself as this may be a long one…although not as long as a “short” PEI post <insert picture with a grin>.
Most of you know that I am divorced now but for those of you who do not know my story….I can sum it up by saying…”what a ride”! .
Update: The past few months have been interesting to say the least. I ended a relationship that I was having; one that I probably should have ended a while ago but didn’t. In the end, I guess I needed to learn a few things about myself from the R. The women that I ended to R with has been calling and texting me almost every day (after I went dark for 3 months). Unfortunately it is the type of R where I feel that I cannot leave the door open at any level. I am not opposed to having a civil R at some point but it will be with very clear boundaries, if at all. At the end of the day, she is a nice lady just not for me. After ending the R, I dated for a short period of time (FTR, there are a lot of psycho in the dating world) and then decided that I was going to alone until after the holidays. I had been enjoying my life. Enjoying myself and really just living…I just felt that I wanted to spend some time with me.
As I made the choice to be alone…..my friends kept saying that I should keep dating; that the person for me is out there. My response, which for me was so different was that I was not going to look. That if someone was out there for me that she would need to come knock on my door. I felt that if it was God will that I be with someone and if it was meant to be that I did not have to “control” the sitch…rather I wanted to just let what is going to happen….happen. We’ll two weeks or so later…it happened. I went to a party that a friend of mine had – I went alone and really went to just hang out and have a good time. It was at this party that I meant, who I will call Miss N. As I said early…the person would have to come knock at the door. Well she came up to me at the party. We talked. We had a lot in common and although I was attracted to her I really felt that I was just going to be alone and did not want to make any mistakes. I still felt that the person that I was suppose to meet would actually pursue me (not an easy thing for a guy to do – think of it as the guy that goes to a party but never talks to a girl…rather is waiting for the girl to talk to him). I left the party early that night and went home. The very next day, I was thinking about Miss N. Thinking…..WOW, she was nice, smart, funny, attractive, had a smile that could light up a room...as I was thinking about Miss N, I received an email from her. Coincedence??? Fate?? Maybe. In her email…..she wanted to say hi and tell me that she really enjoyed talking to me. She wanted to know if it was okay that we continue the conversation over coffee. I was like WOW…..but my second thought was “I should be alone”, “I am tired of this dating thing”, “I feel comfortable with where I am at”….at the same time I really did like this person and so I agreed to meet. We went out to dinner and ended up closing the restaurant. We ended up spending the next few weeks really getting to know each other. We agreed early on to not allow intimacy into the R, until we felt ready for it (we both have already done the wam bam thank you mama thing). So we allowed the R, to just grow. We are now dating exclusively. I have no idea if this is going to work and if it does for how long. I am also at a different place/point in my life. I am living ONE DAY at a TIME. I enjoy the time we have together and have learned a lot about the challenges of truly “reconnecting” post divorce. It is not as easy as one would think…fears can set in and hinder ones ability to be totally open. As things with me and Miss N have progressed I have had to face some of those issues head on. I have come to realize that nothing and no one is guaranteed to be together forever. The words that Cat said to me….oh about a year and a half ago still ring true to me………”accept people that are in your life, enjoy them for the time that they are in your life, for sometimes that are in it for a season, sometime for many seasons”. Thank you Cat for those words. It is these words that remind me that we must all live our lives, as the people we choose to be. That when you find the happiness inside yourself you no longer seek or NEED it from someone outside and although it feels great to be in an R. The R should not take precedence of your own dreams. I am approaching this R very differently. I accept each day for what it is. I appreciate the time that we have together. If it were to end tomorrow, I know now that I would “feel it” but I also know that I will “make it” Miss N and I are moving fast but interesting enough….it does not feel rushed. Not rushed at all. She is a wonderful lady and I a wonderful man. In part because of the people on these boards and in some ways my XW. Yesterday, I meant the parent of Miss N – a big step if ya ask me. Apparently I received “RAVE” reviews from her parents, who I understand must have some level of concern? Why? Miss N, is 29 years old, has never been married and does not have children. I on the other hand am 42, with 3 great kid and an XW…who to put it nicely has “issues”. So I totally could relate to any concerns her parents may have had. Apparently, I made have squashed some of those concerns last night. Miss N has met my children. My daughter (10 yo. who many of you know is my world) likes her. My boys (16 and 17) like her as well. I was planning to hold off the introduction to my kids, however, my boys really wanted to meet her. In short, things are good…no….great! I think about many of you daily…some of you, I still talk to on the phone daily. Know this…you are always on my mind and in my prayers.
Ok enough about Miss N……so I am sitting home one day last week and my niece reaches out to me. For background purposes, she was one of the people who really chose the side of XW during the process. As did several of the family friends we had together, most notably two couples that we were friends with for so many years.
So, I was taken-a-back about why she choose to reach out. I mean right now, life is good, my kids are good, everything is good. So I had to ask myself, did I want to respond? Why did she reach out, what did she want, did I really want to become affiliated with my old sitch? Having given it some thought…..I decided to respond – I figured if anything maybe I just needed to tell my niece that I forgive her. Maybe she needed it. I also realized that I did miss her too. So I responded and she came over yesterday. When she arrived, she said she needed to talk. I told her I would listen. She started by apologized for not reaching out to me during the entire divorce/separation, she apologized for taking sides. She apologized for a lot of things. She did justify some of everyone’s action to disassociate by saying that they “knew you were strong Eric so we knew you would be fine. XW on the other hand was not strong so we (my niece and the mutual friends) felt we needed to be there for her”. I told her that I had forgiven her and that I understood. I also said that in many ways things happened just the way they were supposed to happen. My niece then went on to say that she felt that I needed to “hear” what has really been going on between my XW, her and the family friends. I told her that it really did not matter but that if she needed me to listen to her I would. What she said to me I never really expected and really confirmed what I have felt for so long, which is that my XW is really in a very dark place.
What I learned about what XW is going through is actually quite interesting. I am sharing in the hopes that some of you going through this experience will come to understand just how “broken” someone in an MLC can be. Here is what I learned about XW:
• The mutual friends that we had…have now written off XW. To quote “we are all done with her”. The mutual friends feel that XW is a lair and has used them for the past few years. My niece indicated that XW is losing all of her friends, since all she does is spend time with OM.
• The friends are upset that when XW has the children the only time she contacts them is to drop off the kids so that she can be with OM. They are tired of it.
• Apparently OM’s (whom is still the same married supervisor) wife is aware of the sitch between OM and XW. She apparently confronted the two of them and physically beat on OM, in front of XW. Then (and I find this amazing), the three of them went and “talked”. XW and OM remain together and OM has indicated that his wife does not want to “agree” to a D. It is sad to hear that this is the life that XW has chosen for herself.
• XW and OM have gone on vacation together – yet tells the friends that she does not have any vacation time to spend with the kids.
• The overall consensus from the friends is that XW should not have D’d me and that she is still lost and although she claims to want to be her own independent woman that all she has done for herself is follow another man.
• The friends are unhappy with how XW plays or talks to and around the kids. She continues to lie to the children and the friends feels that is wrong.
• All of her close friends feel that XW is totally broken and beyond repair…that the only way XW will ever, if she ever, fixes herself is if OM dumps her.
• The friends feel that XW will stay this way for a long time……since the r between OM and XW works (his W knows and I guess they are both comfortable with it) that XW will not look at herself.
• XW went to a psychic with my niece. The psychic told XW that a dark cloud remains over her and that she is broken.
• Since XW did not like what the psychic said she went to a card reader….who pretty much said the same thing.
• XW is unable to pay her bills and will tell anyone that will listen how overwhelmed she feels.
• XW contacts OM for everything and when he is not available, it is at that point that she contacts the friends, who now do not care to deal with her.
• OM older daughter (apparently his kids are older) is estranged from her dad, as a result of his R with XW.
• The mutual friends feel that XW wear a mask of happiness around them but deep down inside is totally depressed.
• XW calls the friends constantly, complaining about the kids and how difficult it is.
• XW feels that I still want her back, which I laughed at.
I would lying if I did not say that I felt some degree of satisfaction about what XW is going through but at the same token I feel sad for her. So what did hearing what I did mean or show me?
• Having felt everything that I felt hearing this stuff, other than “feeling sorry” for XW, I did not feel like I need to do anything for her.
• She is still broken and may be broken for a very long time.
• My kids really need me to continue to be the best parent I can for them. In some ways, I still feel like a single parent.
• Part of me want to separate myself even more from XW. When the bubble burst I really do not want to be around.
• Although I will always love XW to some extent….I am no longer in love with the woman that I was married to. She is truly gone.
• I feel like everything I did to work on me (and I am still a work in progress) was really the right path to take. I wished that my XW would get the help she needs.
• I feel a little frustration…..we have children together so unfortunately I still have to deal with her on some level.
• I still have fond memories of my marriage and the women that once was – and those memories I will cherish forever.
• I feel like my children will unfortunately be impacted by this, in a way that I may not be able to see or deal with for a long time. It is sad.
Enough about XW…..on to the kiddies…..
First and foremost, the R between my oldest and I has taken a huge turn for the positive. Man was it tough. It was very hard to sit and allow him to “process” whatever he feels he needed him to process. He appears to have made it “through”. We talk al the time now. It is truly a very good father son relationship. So for any of you that do not have hope, or are dealing with a child that appears angry at you – know that it will GET BETTER. Interesting enough….a few weeks ago I was driving with my oldest and my D (10), my oldest started to complain about his mother. My daughter chimed in and said to him that he should not be bashing mommy. His response “D, I am saying how I feel. I am not bashing mommy. I call it the way I see it. Dad can tell you how angry I was with him when I felt the way that I did. What mom does these days is wrong so I am only speaking the truth”. It took everything in my power not to smile and I didn’t my response to him….”I understand how you may feel this way Jr. but she is still your mother and you need to respect her”. When I got home….I smiled though…..couldn’t help it. After all of this, all of the pain, the words she played against me, the game she played with their feelings. My thoughts….ya reap what you sow. So for anyone going through….please always take the high road. Your children will one day form their own opinions. So always be the best parent you can be.
As for my middle son, he is still the same lovable kids that he always was. Interesting, this Saturday they were supposed to be with mom. My middle son comes over to me and says….”dad, we do not like it at moms”. She is never home and so I am asking dad…can I stay tonight? Please?”. My heart melted. My response…as long as it is okay with your mom I’m okay with it. I wanted to cry. For those vets who have been with me during this process, you can understand how sweet those words were to me. It has been a hard fought battle. Hard. Many thanks to all of you….for never letting me quit. Words cannot truly convey my thanks.
On to my little girl. She is still spoiled and still daddy’s little girl. I am working hard to become a little more firm with her. I need to. She needs to understand that I am the parent not her. It is work in progress. I can tell she misses her mother. Yet she loves being with me. A few weeks ago, she was torn… it was my day to be with her. When I went to pick her up she was a little sad. I asked her do you want to stay with mom? Her response…I am not sure. I told her that I was okay with it if she really wanted too (FTR, I first checked with XW to make sure that she did not have plans). My D could not make up her mind. I knew right from the start that she did not want to hurt either of our feelings so we did the unexpected. We flipped a coin. LOL. We actually did, heads you stay with mom, tails you come with dad. Mom won and so did everyone. My daughter receive some quality time with her mother, she did not feel bad and I spent some quality time with just my boys.
Okay…enough of an update from me. I look forward to any comments or questions.
In closing, I miss all of you and wish you nothing but the best in each of your sitch’s. For the newbies…..please listen when folks say to you to work on yourself and detach. It really is the only way.
Peace,
Eric
Thanks for the update--I am glad to hear things are going so well for you. I'm also glad for the XW insights.
I get the impression that my XH thinks I still want him back too or am waiting for him...I've told him this isn't the case, but he doesn't seem to believe me. I wonder if the exes tell themselves this because a lot of us do not get involved with someone exclusively for a long time; they can tell themselves "well despite what I did, my ex still is single, so there must be no one out there better than me."
There are times that I've temporarily wished to be with someone just so XH could not tell himself that I'm sitting here waiting or feeling sad. I GAL all over the place but the only type of GALing my XH "gets" is being in a relationship. In his world nothing else matters, where in my world, I have a million things going on that do matter that have nothing to do with a rel.
Anyway in the end, even if this is what they tell themselves, whatever. It's really of no consequence to us anymore.
BTW, a friend of mine just pointed out something that was not really expanded on in my update.
The struggles that I have had with Miss N.
What I have learned is that "reconnecting" is really hard after you go through this MLC process. I have had a lot of fears to deal with. A lot center around her age. She is 29 and I 42. So BOTH her and I have struggled at times. Her friends are younger, mine older. Both side have questioned us and challenged us. Typical stuff....what if she has her own crisis later on, what if she wants more kids, do you realize when she is 40 you will be 52, will you be able to keep up with her, etc.
Miss N and I have talked about this stuff in detail. At one point she really flipped out. We were in the car and she started saying "I'm not sure of what I want", "You seem to have your chit together and I need to get mine together", "this is all so new to me", "I want to make sure this is right for me", etc.
It's funny the old me would have applied pressure, would have tried to convince her that she was making a mistake. Would have tried to talk my way out of it. Well that is the old me. What I did instead was...go dark immediately. I told her that I understand how she felt. She said she was going to call me later that evening. She never did. So the very next day, at 7am she text me..."I would like to talk to you. I am sorry I did not call last night". I never responded. She emailed me at work. I never responded. She sent another text "I need to talk to you". I never responded. She sent an instant message to my job "can I please see you today". I never responded.
I eventually responded with a text that said, I am free to talk to you from 4 - 4:30 pm. Meet me in front of the garage. When I arrived she was already in the garage. We got in my car and I said...okay you wanted to talk...I am hear to listen.
So she started....."Eric, I realized last night, that it is more painful to not have you in my life then to face my fears". "I wanted to tell you that although I am scared - I'm all in". "I am committed to you, to us". "i have never dated anyone with kids, or who has been divorced so this is all new to me. and I flipped out. I am sorry". "I love you and I want to be with you".
I did not respond for a while, she started to cry. "I'm scared Eric, this seems to good to be true. You seem to good to be true. Sometimes I wonder if you are real.". "So are you willing to give this a shot. Do you want this to work" "Why arent you saying anything".
My response was..."Miss N, I know what I want in my life and what I will allow in it. I am willing to give this a shot. I too am scared. I am willing to face the fears. I understand what you may be feeling. That said, I have said to you that communication is key. It is the most important thing to me. Communication...brutal honesty is what I ask for. Even if that hurts". "So we can give this a shot, if you feel this way again, tell me. I do not want to deal with this again".
She apologized several times. Said she knew that when I did not return her text or emails that I had already detached. She said if I did not respond to her that day that she was going to drive to my house. That she wanted ME. She applogized again".
Since this, things have been great. We both talk about this being the first bump in the road for us. I met her parents and the response I got today was....."my parents RAVED about you".
Although I Miss N and I dealt with this, fear is something that I have to learn to deal with. It is a daily process. I must continue to remind myself of Cat's message...enjoy what I do have with Miss N while also NEVER loosing Eric.
Fear....damn I hate it but face it we must all.
In closing, what I learned from this experience is just how much we must VALUE ourselves. I value myself enough to let her go. I know what kind of man I am...so I am willing to let go of anyone that does not put into the R as much as I do. I am still a work in progress.
Peace
Eric
Dude. What is there to say.
Learned you have.
First of all, good for you, E. You deserve to have someone who realizes the kind of man you are.
I am not surprised about the relationship you now have with your children. I always say that as long as you do nothing to injure their relationship with the other parent and that you are honest and present, they will realize the truth.
Your beautiful daughter is at a difficult age. She needs her mom and there is not much you can do regarding that. But tossing the coin was a wonderful solution.
As far as your relationship with Ms. N. goes, there is nothing you can do to change your ages, nothing you can do about the fact that you have children and are divorced and so, she must work through it and decide if she can handle it.
I know you will continue to be your wonderful self. Give her the space she needs to figure out her feelings.
Take is slow, E. No rush, right? Let it all unfold as if will.
Enjoy your time with her and your time alone. And keep remembering that either way, you are ok.
Happy Holidays, sweetie.
I hope to finish the third part, by February....
So I will forward an "atta boy" and "good job" until I actually finish reading.....
Mach, just spit my soda out laughing.....
not as long as a “short” PEI post
listen here Epic, I didn't know it was a contest ... game on ...
The words that Cat said to me….oh about a year and a half ago still ring true to me………”accept people that are in your life, enjoy them for the time that they are in your life, for sometimes that are in it for a season, sometime for many seasons”.
I must continue to remind myself of Cat's message...enjoy what I do have with Miss N while also NEVER loosing Eric.
All of the hours I spent reading your novels…
All of the posts and 2x4’s...
All of the hours on the phone, emails, text messages...
And THIS is what you remember?
Sigh...
E,
I always wish u peace and happiness. The one thing I am most happy about is hearing u and Jr. R doing good! That warms my heart.
Did u know miss n is closer in age to Jr.? Hehe! Sorry sweetie - couldn't let that fact go by without a small chuckle!
I'm not going to lie. TAMF said exactly what hit me when I was in the middle of walmart tonight thinking about this.
I just wrote a chapter for my book on a fictional character who goes through watching his dad have a sexual relationship (he doesn't watch his dad have sex but he knows what's going on) with a woman who is closer to his age than his dad's age, in the book, the son actually is attracted to the woman and gets all confused because his dad is the one with her.
I mean, just try to watch out for that, I guess. Any of the students I've taught who have had a parent (either sex) who had a rel. with someone closer to their age than their parents' age did NOT handle it well and brought it up all the time as a real issue for them.
I don't know HOW to handle it, but seek advice, perhaps, from those who have been in a similar situation who did handle this well with their kids and the kids are ok with it.
What she said to me I never really expected and really confirmed what I have felt for so long, which is that my XW is really in a very dark place.
What did I tell you about EXPECTATIONS?
Glad to hear life is going so well.
Question being, if Live Little Friday happened in Vegas, and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, would any of us ever come home????
Nope.
Thank you everyone for your feedback!
I miss and love you all.
Hey Antonia, the 12 year age difference is still shorter than the age difference between Miss N and my oldest. That said, she is very mature for her age (yes I get it that probably everyone in this positions says that) but at the same time...I like to consider myself a "young" 40 year old. Oh...and you owe me a response re: New Years.
TAMF, you alway crack me up. FTR, you know I will get you back for that comment
.
PEI, bring it girl...bring it!
Senor Mach - Did you finish reading yet?
Cadet - I hear ya buddy.
Cat - NO I have learned much much more. Hell I still have some of the bruises to show for it.
Merry Christmas to all of you.
PEI, bring it girl...bring it!
Lol ... Merry Christmas to you too E
I heard they are renaming a few things in your honor:
Eric Island - for the eastern seaboard end of New York State.
The Eric Jump- for that track and field event where a guy wins for going the farthest.
Then there is the Ericthon.
The beginning of Star Wars now reads:
An Eric time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
Ericshanks- the evil king in Braveheart.
"Take the Eric Way Home" hit song by Supertramp.
Henry Wordsworth Ericfellow- famous American poet.
Mach can ya help me out?
You take the first 30 chapters and I'll take the last 30 chapters.
We can give eachother the Cliff notes.
E glad to see you're doing well...
At least the part I read so far.
How about:
"The Eric and Winding Road" by the Beatles
"How Eric Has This Been Goin' On?" by ACE
The movies, "The Ericshank Redemption" , "The Eric Mile" or "The Ericest Yard"
Eric, just having a little fun. Thanks for coming back and paying it forward.
Merry Christmas to you and your lovely family.
Mach can ya help me out?
You take the first 30 chapters and I'll take the last 30 chapters.
I will gladly take your offer my friend....
Except that I'm not so sure that he has reached the end of the "first" 30 yet.....
How about I stop here, and you can have everything from now ????
And to top it off.....PEI just posted an update....
Makes
Les Hommes de Bonne Volonté look like a children's book.....
Geesh....
Ohhh....
How I missed you guys
Happy Holidays everyone!
So....in about 10 mins it will be 12/23/2011. A special day for me. It is my oldest son's birthday. Many of you know about the struggles him and I had. I am happy to say that our R keeps getting better and better. In 10 mins I will be the first person to give him a kiss and wish him happy birthday.
I also wrote him a letter that I wanted to share with everyone. Specifically I wanted to share this letter to a few of the men on these boards that helped me in my R with my son. Thank you guys and a special thanks to T who proof read it for me. Thanks girl...as always I owe you one (okay so it is a little more than one :))
Okay here is the letter.....
To Jr…my son,
I want you to know that I love you papi! I love you just the way that YOU are!
I am proud of you son. Proud of the man you are becoming and will become.
Some say that at 18 you become a man. So what does being a man mean?
First it is important to understand that there is a difference between a boy and a man. Being a man is NOT measured by height, the deepness of your voice or any other physical attribute.
A boys main concern is himself. It is all about having his needs met. A boy has a self-centered view of the world. A boy is a receiver; a man though is a giver. Being a man is about the way you think and the way you act.
To think like a man, you need to focus on others around you. A man is considerate. See things through the eyes of other people. Always considering how your actions will affect the others around you.
But it is not enough to simply think like a man….you must act like one too; especially during difficult times. For it is in difficult times that a mans "true" character shines!
Life will give you the opportunity to learn IF you take every opportunity to learn about yourself, especially in difficult times. Life's lessons will come at unpredictable times and places. Remember, anyone can be a teacher – even those that you least expect to be. I encourage you to always be on the lookout for life's lessons and its teachers.
I believe with everything in my heart, with ever fiber of my being that you will have a life of endless opportunities. You'll have your share of happiness and at times you'll be disappointed. You'll face difficult decisions at times while others will be filled with parties and laughter. You'll have victories as well as defeats. You'll make new friends and you will lose some friends. You'll have doubt and at times a sense of invulnerability.
The lessons life has in store for you are unique to you papi. Remember, that every problem, every challenge has a solution, has a way out.
Remember, you always have choices. Always. YOU papi and ONLY YOU Choose how you live. You choose what kind so man you will be. You choose IF you are happy in life. You chose how you deal with what life throws at you.
Papi, remember that "a man" is gentle yet tough. A man is sensitive yet strong. A man is courageous yet responsible. Responsible in how he lives his life and what he allows in his life.
Papi….I have no doubt that you will …….Be a man of good character an honest man a man that is truthful to everyone, especially to himself. As hard as it can be sometimes don't lie, steal, or cheat. And never papi intentionally hurt someone.
A man papi will make tough decisions. Never hide or run from doing what's right. Keep your promises, especially the ones to yourself. Be consistent in everything you do. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Be someone who can be counted on. Be your toughest critic but also learn to forgive yourself and learn from your mistakes.
Be confident. Stand up for what is right and just. Live a life that is fair and just. Never give in to peer pressure and trust me I know how hard that can be. Always listen to that voice in your head and do the wise thing.
As you get older and when and if you marry, remember that family is the most important thing. A man will protect your family but also allow them the room to make mistakes. Be a good example and role model for your children.
Work hard but remember to LIVE and enjoy life. Work to live papi…not live to work. Believe in yourself and although I may not have always said it…..I believe in YOU SON.
Dream big dreams….work towards your dreams. Son, you are always capable of doing more than you think you can - so challenge yourself. Challenge yourself to be the best MAN you can be. It is not always easy Papi…but the rewards….the rewards son are oh so good.
Learn from your mistakes and from the mistake made by those around you. Listen when someone talks…and I mean really listen. Always be open to learning. Learning new things, learning about yourself. Seek truth and honor Papi…seek them for they will help guide you on your path.
Be a good communicator. Share your feelings with those you love. And most importantly, be able to hear and listen to those you love.
ALWAYS Love yourself. Love, appreciate, respect and honor YOU, just the way you are. Never allow someone else to dictate how you feel about yourself. Be honest with yourself…even when being honest with yourself hurts!
Respect others and never be afraid to say "you're sorry" but if you say it….mean it. Continue to be the man that you have grown up to be….Do for others without looking for something in return.
Choose the friends that you allow in your life carefully. Look at their values. Do these friends bring out your best? Are they supportive? Avoid people who put you down – avoid them at all cost. Keep your word…because it is important.
Accept that everything in life is not always fair. Learn from your losses. Embrace them.
Always keep a sense of humor. It really is okay to laugh at yourself. Stay humble and appreciate what you do have in your life.
What you make of your life and the man that you become is up to you Little. Eveything is YOUR choice.
I am proud of you son. Proud of the man you are becoming and will become.
I love you papi.
Love
Dad
Beautiful, my friend. Beautiful.
You're welcome E ... and for the record, Mach, I did NOT spell check ...
It is beautiful E, heartfelt and true.
Happy Birthday Jr!
T/PEI
One day, when you are old....well okay....oldER...
You can look back, and see the difference YOU made in this young man's life...
You have done an amazing job with him, knowing where he was , and to know where he is now.
YOU have made a difference in his life, the same as HE has made a difference in yours....
Peace to ALL of you throughout this holiday season my friend....
And wish Little E a Happy Birthday for me ???
and for the record, Mach, I did NOT spell check ...
Must be cold up there in the Great White North, Eh ?
: )
I wanted to tell you how beautiful your letter to your son is, Eric. It brought tears to my eyes. Considering I never had kids, and don't really know what it feels like to be a parent other than a pet-parent, this is really saying something :-)
My best to him for his milestone birthday and to you and yours.
E - I am proud of YOU. I worried about your relationship with Jr. scared that because the 2 of you struggled to communicate and show your feelings toward each other - you might lose him. I have talked to you about this.
Hearing that your relationship is changing and improving, and then reading this letter, well, it makes my heart sing for you.
The letter is incredible, and I am sure that he will carry this letter forever. Maybe even pass it down to his children one day.
I am just so proud of you that you didn't let him slip away.
BTW, I am curious, why didn't you mention in your letter that being a man is also about metrosexual dorkiness? I don't get it? That is one of my favorite qualities I find in you and you didn't mention that to JR.? lol!!!!
awww...f...
Here I am crying like I just listened to Adelle's Someone Like You...after reading that letter.
I think I am going to have to steal that letter for my son too.
And then he's going to ask: "Who the hell is Papi, Dad?"
Oh Gee,
Im tearing up. This is the most beautiful letter I've ever read.
Nothing could've touched me more.
Im so happy that he has a Father like you.
Hello Everyone
It’s been a while since I have been on the boards. It seems like an eternity. I think of everyone on these boards and I pray for all of you guys all the time. I still read the boards but I really felt it was time for me to step away. For those of you who are new to this process, please listen to the vets. You will keep hearing detach, detach, work on you, fix you. Listen to these words. Sit quietly and examine them, understand them. For IF you fix YOU (and it doesn’t happen overnight)…well then YOU will be OK.
This post is directed to all of the men (sorry women), who struggle with the impact a going through this or a divorce will have on your children. To those men who struggle with taking the HIGH ROAD. Taking the road to NEVER tell your children what your batchit crazy spouse or XW is doing or has done. To those men who are AFRAID that they will not have time with their children or be an active part of your kids lives. To those men who’s W or XW had an affair and felt like you could never live or love again...
I am here to tell you that 1) YOU can have a life and you can love again 2) taking the HIGH ROAD, no matter how hard, no matter how long…is WORTH IT! 3) That the FEAR you have of loosing your children or not being part of your lives or never being able to love again….is just that FEAR – NOT REALITY. That is unless you make it your reality.
So men…..Fight for your kids! Become the best dad you can be. Keep them out of harms way. Take the high road….always….but realize that some lesson that they will learn will be learned the hard way. Some one once said, the IRON when heated BECOMES STEEL. Remember this, for many of you are in the fire. IF you do the work YOU WILL BECOME STEEL. You WILL become MEN that YOU will be proud of. The best part, your kids….will follow you.
Okay, so for update on me….
Life is good PERIOD. My girlfriend is great. The kids get along with her. A day does not go by that my D11 does not draw a picture for her. My job is good. Being a single parent 60 – 70 % of time is tough at times, but I am doing okay – thanks in part to the tools that I learned here and the friends that I made here. I feel at peace. Yet sometimes the anger can still surface from time to time.
I am planning a vacation in the next few weeks. My kids, especially my boys are happy. The kids love being with me. My girlfriend is going to law school. I am still working on myself. Still examine myself and always pushing myself. I have packed on a few pounds (about 15) but I am still not as big as I was during the crisis. My XW is still lost. Still gone. We have moved in two totally different directions. I feel sorry for her. It is sad of what her life has become. I still pray for her (and FTR, still prays she gets hit by bus some days – LOL – just kidding).
Soooo….life is really good. I am planning a trip to Canada with my girlfriend, a trip to Washington DC and a trip to Philly if I can swing it.
Anywhooo….I wanted to recap a conversation that my boys had with their mother a few weeks ago. I know this is a long post. I wanted to document the conversation and what better place than here.
A little background before I recap the convo…(you can go to the first page of this post for all of the history) – here is the short background…..
During the crisis, I remained in the martial home. My XW was seeing her supervisor. My children never knew. My XW took great length to poison the kids against me. It was tough….my oldest son (18) pretty much hated me. When I moved out finally, he never came to visit. My XW had done a fair amount of damage although she always denied it.
Over the past month, my oldest has really opened up to me. Has told me the things his mother said to him. Many times, I wanted to drive over to her house and punch her in the face. I didn’t (thanks T). I kept taking the high road. I kept telling him that we both loved him and that his mother more than likely believes what she says. We have had quite a few long conversations. I have continue to validate how he feels (learned from the boards) and have said that is was okay that he was angry but that he should not hold on to the anger. The last conversation was….his asking me if I cheated on his mother. My response was NO I did not. He asked me if she cheated. My answer was that he needed to ask her and that really what happened between her and I was between her and I. I have told him that the R between him and his mother is between him and her. That I cannot fix it. I suggested to both of my boys that the talk to her.
They did.
When I dropped the boys off, I asked my XW if she told the boys that I cheated on her. She said NO. That my son was lying. . I said ok, I suggested that XW speak to S18 because he is quite upset with you. I further went on to say, that I have not said a word to the kids about her transgression as that is not my place. I suggested that she be honest with them.
On Monday, after she took them shopping for sneakers and cloths (interesting that she would do that PRIOR to initiating conversation with them), she sat down with S18 to have a conversation with him, specifically about his comments that she is a liar. I received a text from xw and from S18 at 7pm on Saturday that I needed to come over.
When I arrived they were both outside. S18 said to me, Dad I wanted you here so that we can all talk and the truth can come out. I responded that I have nothing to hide and will be honest, that said, there are things that I do not feel are beneficial for him to hear and that I would not answer those question as I do not want to lie. Since EVERYONE agreed to be honest, I went on to ask XW a question ….. did she tell S18 that I cheated on her? She said she did. I said, why then did you say something different to me yesterday? She stuttered and said that I did cheat on her, she said that by grabbing a womens boob on my 40th birthday party that she considered that cheating. My response was…I maintained what I have always said, which was that I was drunk on my BD and that I did not recall doing it. I also asked the women (who was a family friend of both of us) who said I did not do it.
S18 responded….so Mom, grabbing a boob is cheating? Really? I then asked XW, did she say to the boys, that I held her back her whole life and emotionally abused her for 18 years. She said she did. My response was…”what benefit does saying this have to the boys – how is this promoting a healthy relationship with their father”. I said, that I was sorry she felt that I held her back and felt emotionally abused but that she made the CHOICE to remain married.
S18 jumped in and asked me if his mother cheated on me, I said to ask his mother. Her response was that there are things about the marriage that he did not need to know. That she felt she never cheated on me. S18 went on to say to his mother, that he would like to know why she changed everyone life, because of an accusation of something that occurred on my 40th birthday party but NEVER even went to ask the person that I supposedly did this too. She said, she was waiting for the women to approach her. S18, said, really she lived across the street, you mean you never thought to at least ask her? S18 said, he asked the women and her husband and they both told him that I did not do it. He then went on to say….so you mean to tell me mom, that you made a drastic decision to f*ck up everyones life and never asked the person who this happened to? Really mom, you never thought to at least ask? Really? Her response was that she was sorry that she did not ask. He said, I’m sorry I do not believe you. At this point XW gave me the look that I am used to, a look that said save me. I decided I was not going to save her.
S18 then went on to say, that he would like to know how a mother who loves her children would spend 2 years poisoning them against their father. That based on the things that she said to him, he hated his father for two years. Totally hated him. So why mom, why would you say these things to me? She went on to say several times, that she was emotionally abused, that she was held back her entire life, she played up the victim over and over again. S18 said, you still did not answer my question. She played the victim again. I finally responded and said to son that, S18 should try and understand that this is how his mother feels and she has every right to feel this way – just like he has a right to feel the way he feels. S18 then said, you still have not answered me mom. She played the victim again by saying he did not understand how hard it was to be married to me and that what happened in the marriage is between her and I. S18. responded…then if was between you and dad, why did you tell me these things about my dad? He also asked why did she say I cheated if I didn’t. She said she was sorry and that she should not have said it and that she lied. He then said, Mom you are an F’in liar. You need help.
XW started to cry (fake tears imo)…..XW then said, she didn’t lie. Both S18 and I looked shocked. Did she just retract what she said. Yep – welcome to world of MLC folks. S18 slammed his hand on the table and said, so you now just took back what you just said, which is that you lied. So is this the truth mom or is this another lie. You are liar mom and you still have not answered my question. Why would you say these things about my dad to me? How could a mother who loves her children do this? Why do you poison us against our dad? I was personally, surprised at my S18 – he would not let go. He was resolute in getting an answer from him. She then said again, that she was held back her entire life, that is was so hard to be married to me.
My son was getting angrier and angrier. He wanted and answer and all XW could do was play the victim.
I was finally sick of hearing her blame me for everything and decided to speak up. I said, XW I am sorry but you continue to play the victim here. Bottom line we both made mistakes in the M. Both of us. You made choices in your life, those choices are yours not mine to own they are yours. At this point XW gave me the look…one that I have become used to…the look that said…F U.
S18 responded with…..so mom, it was soo bad, that you were able to stay home with us, we were able to go on vacations, had parties at the house, had lots of fun, you told us all the time about hw much you loved dad but now it was that bad for 18 years. XW said nothing. S18 then said, so mom, you still have not answered my question…..why would a mother who claims to love her kids, claimed to love someone for 18 years say these things about him to his children. XW, after realizing that she could not talk her way said that she would like to apologize to him and to me. So she looked at S18 and said sorry and said sorry to me. It was IMO, the most insincere apology I have ever seen. S18 said, I don’t believe you, your apology is not sincere – you are just saying sorry so that we can end the conversation I was shocked the S18 felt the same way and called her on it. At this point S16 came outside.
S16 said, he heard everything and that he is disgusted at his mother. That her apology is not sincere…that “sorry mom, I just don’t believe you”, “you can’t even look dad in the face”. S18 walked away saying…you are liar, you still can’t even answer the question. I told the boys that their mother believes what she is saying and that she and I both love them very much. S18 said, I know you love us, but she is a liar dad. XW said to the boys, but I apologized, what else do you want? They both looked at her and said, you don’t get it mom. You just don’t get it. You need help. You need to see a therapist to talk to someone. S18 said, mom you really need help, and you need to see someone and I’m not talking about talking to your family or your friends – no a therapist. HE then asked again, why did you say these things to me about my dad mom – you still have not answered? She said because you asked S18. S18 responded, and so you lied and said he cheated mom – that is what you told me – that dad cheated. XW then said, he did cheat. S18 said, so once again, you admitted to lying and now you are taking it back again. OMG, mom, you are a liar. She then looked at me and said, Eric Sr I didn’t lie – did I? I responded XW, this is how you feel – I feel differently. This is between you and S18. I suggest that you be honest with him. She said, I am. I said really? Really XW (for those who do not know my kids still do not know). She then said to S18 and S16, (quite casually) well I already apologized – so I am not sure what else you want. I will go see a therapist. S18 and S16 – I don’t believe you. You really just want this conversation to end – you need help.
At this point I felt needed to separate XW from the boys as S18 looked like he was going to slap her. I asked XW to take a ride to the gas station with me to buy smokes – she agreed.
Driving to the gas station I explained to XW, that I have not told them about OM and suggested that she listen to what they boys were saying to her. I also suggested that she stop playing the victim and take some ownership of her half of the failure, that maybe it would help. I explained that the kids have seen a lot and that they are older now and are putting the pieces together for themselves. XW looked at me and said, I did nothing wrong – this is all your fault. I responded,…..really XW, you did nothing wrong. OMG, you really just do not see it do you. You know what; I have nothing else to say. I tried to help you. You do what you think you need to do as I said before this is between them and YOU.
When we arrived back (we were gone for 10 mins)…the boys were still outside (D11 was inside sleeping the whole time). S18 and S16 were looking at there mom with disgust. S16 kept shaking his head. XW said again to them and to me again, that she was sorry. I said to the boys that I would arrange therapy for them. I asked XW if she was okay with the boys seeing Rebecca my old therapist. She said yes. I said, are you sure because I did not want you to feel like I felt when you took the kids to therapy without consulting me. It was at this time that she finally admitted to not telling me about it. She then tried to play up what S18 had said to her, which is the reason she originally took him to a theratpist. She said, yes I did not tell you because S18 had said so many things about you and how you treated him. It was at this point that S18 said “mom – I mentioned a nightmare I had, which I recalled dad and you arguing – I never said a lot of things to you about dad – you see you are lying again”. I asked XW, why she said the thing to her attny about my son and therapy – she said I really didn’t do anything wrong”. I was actually amazed. S18 stood up again and said, mom you are liar and I hate liars.
At this point since it was getting late, I asked S16 if he had anything else to say. S16 said that he hates it at moms. XW said, she is sorry that it is an apartment. S16 said, it has nothing to do with it being an apartment. It has everything to do with your drama and your attitude. It has to do with your mood and you always being negative.” XW said again I know it is because it is an apartment. S16 said you just don’t get it mom….you just don’t get it. S18 then chimed in and said, Mom you always says stuff about dad. I don’t like it here either. I explained to XW in front of the kids, that S16 has made this comment to me several times and that my response has always been that when his mother buys her house that maybe he will feel better.
It was getting late and I wanted to end the conversation since I did not feel that anything positive would come from it. So I asked if XW had anything else to say. She said no.I said goodnight and left. The following day, XW was suppose to take the kids to NJ to see family. The boys did not want to go and I suggested to XW, that she try to give them space and let them feel what they were feeling. To try and have a good weekend with them. XW indicated that she would not allow the boys to walk over her and that she would speak to them when she came home that night. I said, fine do what you think you need to do. When she arrived (according to the boys) – she looked at S16 and said, you are not going, looked at S18 and said you are not going grab D11 and left. The boys called me later that night to pick them up.
I have since signed up the boys for Therapy.
My point to this long story is………..
1) Taking the high road is the right thing to do
2) The truth WILL always come out
3) Be fathers to your kids – keep them safe.
4) You cannot fix everything….often times, children will form their own opinions.
I leave everyone with this…..My boys DO Love their mom – they just do not like her right now. I took the advice of a friend of mine and sat down with the boys. I told them a little about MLC – they got it. It made sense to them. They understand that mom…right now is just not the same. The now understand that it is not them – that it is something that mom must deal with.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Eric
Well schidt.....
I just finished that novel you posted in December....
There goes the summer....
F-N Tutu wearing Rican..
: )
Holy crap. I kept expecting her to admit to cheating with your sons asking the questions, and yet, nope. MLCers never cease to amaze me.
I can't get over that you keep your cool during all this, but you know, that's what the whole DB thing is about. Keeping a lid on reacting to crazy people.
I think your sons will need this therapy if only reason the reason that so many of us did need it when we were finally hit with the full force of the MLC liars...because it's so hard to process how they can lie right to your face. Your sons I am sure would actually feel better if she "came clean" but she probably never will. They will need therapy to teach them how to handle not getting the answers they want and not getting the true sincere apology they so truly deserve.
Be proud of your boys. This is horrible for them but they have really finally understood that you were not the horrible person that she tried to make you out to be. I think it was heartbreaking to read the part where your son realized that he spent so long "hating" you. Thank goodness he understands now, but that "lost time" is also going to haunt him and he was only a victim of her insanity. I hope he does not blame himself for that.
I'll keep you guys in my thoughts.
Dude.
Strengh and Honor.
That's all I got.
Over.
My friend,
You know what I think.
Now you need to continue to be the best example of a man that you can be for them.
They learn, boy how they learn, and not always from our words...
It's like a freakin' reunion on here!
E, my friend, I am so sorry that your sons had to go through that with their mom. No child should have to.
I can tell you firsthand that taking the high road is the only way to go.
If you don't, you can be sure that your children will be the ones to suffer for it.
Because at the end of the day, your children are best served by having both parents in their lives.
You handled it beautifully and you continue to do the right thing.
I know your children will be ok.
They just need to work through this.
I have always said, they are always watching and listening.
We must be extra vigilant in words and actions, always.
You only get one shot at this parent thing. It is our responsibility to do the very best we can.
Your xw knows what she did, E. Whether she will ever admit it is on her.
You continue on your path.
And may your children continue on theirs.
Hey Brookie long time my friend...
Hope all is well, you know where to find me
Hey y'all ... long time no see!
E ... I don't really have anything to add ... we've talked about this so much, but I'm just so happy to see that you're finally getting to see some of the rewards for your hard work. That high road can be a b!tch, but there really is no other way.
(((hugs)))
PEI
Hey Brookie long time my friend...
Hope all is well, you know where to find me
Hi Cat, You don't know me, but I wanted to say hello anyway. I like your style.
Wow Eric. Holy ******* wow. I couldn't help but shake my head in disbelief when I read this. It was like I was reading my sitch. It's identical right down to XW accusing me of cheating and saying that she would go to therapy. I couldn't believe the similarities. It's almost freaky.
PEI, I agree with you. The high road is a bitch but worth it.
Antonia, you don't post to me anymore. I just wanted to say hello and hope that you are doing well.
Tad
Wow. I'm glad your boys are that strong, E. Glad you kept your cool and glad you came back to post words of encouragement for taking the high road.
Be there for them. A lot for them to digest, especially the oldest (they often take the role of protector for their siblings; more to work out..)
Be good, amigo. And stay away from the tutu
AJ
My lavender tutu wearing friend:
That is a lot of new information, but not really.
Your job?
Break the pathology of your legacy that was given you.
And what your W has given you.
Eric
My friend
You do have this spirit. You have been an inspiration to me personally.
The pathalogy is that you must break: is your children will be loved regardess of life circumstances.
They are the top of the pyramid.
Everything is a function of them ...
Else
They will be where you are today. Dysfunction.
Think my friend always. ALWAYS of what you leave for your children.
Brookie you made me laugh with the reunion comment.
Hi Tad, thanks for the well wishes! I really have dropped off posting in general I guess. I've been really busy with work and have more of a social life than I used to, and I "lurk" around here to stay caught up, but rarely post. Glad to hear you have a new job, though. Sometimes things like that end up being a real kick start in a new direction.
Hey! I didn't get the reunion memo!
Eric, as you say, what goes around comes around. And/Or Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord. I think you are a very special parent, and your kids are lucky to have you, and are just beginning to know it as adults.
I know there are things in my past that I would never be comfortable admitting/discussing with my children, even if it happened before they were born. Having to face the truth while still in an MLC - OMG. I believe that like other facets of MLC, they will peep out of the tunnel for only a moment or two, and then run back in to hide behind the lies. Your sons may not make it so easy this time. I'm sorry your sons had to go through it, but happy that they know the truth in regard to their remarkable Dad.
Good to catch up on your sitch Eric. Seems like you're doing well!
Hey everyone....
Just dropped by to say thank you for all of your responses. I miss all of you and will try and get back here a little more often.
Just a quick update...
My grandmother (who raised me) passed away on Wednesday so I am working on arrangements, etc. I feel at peace now that she has passed and I believe is in a better place. She had been in a nursing home and really her quality of life was the not the greatest. It's funny though....the comments from the extend family about me....have actually confirmed what I already knew, which was...I am a totally differnt person. My mother, whom btw admitted to her own crisis and "fog", and I had a long conversation yesterday...her quote "Eric....wow...I am so proud of the man that you have become - you are the man that this family needed". It made me smile and reminded me that this "process"...can truly be a postive IF ONE LETS IT.
On a personal note....Thinks are okay with me. Girlfriend and I are working through some of the "trust" issue that ensew when you enter a new R and you have left one with a cheating spouse (I have to say that when your spouse cheats it truly leaves some deep scars). GF is a good woman and pretty communicative so I think we will work through the issues - so far so good.
As for the kiddies and I.... I still have the kids a little more than 50% of the time, which is great! The boys are doing well. My oldest now has a job and is schedule to begin college late Aug (culinary degree). My younger son will be a senior in HS and is now thinking of going to school in Florida, which I totally support. As for D, well she is still daddy's little girl although she is hitting that "stage" if you know what I mean and so I have a funny feeling that the next few years will be...well let's just say interesting.
In terms of my XW - her married OM has filed for D. She has introduced him to the kids as her "Boss" and "friend"...although my boys have figured out that it is more than friends. The R between her and I is pretty much ONLY about the kids and amounts to no more than a monthly email re: parenting schedules, kid finances, etc. Based on her response to the last few emails she seems to be a little less angry, which I think is good for the kids and I. It funny, I can still recall the feelings of wanting her back - those feelings are gone for the most part. The only thing that I feel (and it aint often) is saddness for her. I hope and pray that she finds the peace that I believe everyone looks for.
Peace out and stay well everyone.
For the newbies.....KNOW THAT IT REALLY DOES GET BETTER - YOU JUST HAVE TO WANT IT TO!
God Bless,
Eric
Eric,
My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family during this sorrowful time. I'm sure your grandmother is in a better place and is w/o pain. She's watching over you and your family now and it at peace.
Your children are growing up quickly and they appear to be doing quite well. I'm glad to see that things have settled down for you and the children. Take things slowly w/your lady friend and learn to trust once again. I know...it's difficult when someone close to you has cheated on you and the trust goes right out the window. But, I do believe that you can learn to trust again and if your lady friend is able to communicate w/you and you both can lay your thoughts on the table, you'll be okay.
Take care of yourself. Life has a way of turning things around and it looks like you've got a few new adventures heading your way!
Eric,
Strength and honor, my friend.
And my sincerest condolences on your loss.
Eric,
I am sorry for your loss. I am honored to know you and call you a friend.
Eric,
My condolences to you and your family.
Yes, your Grandmother is in a better place. I'm sure she's there with a smile on her face very proud knowing she raised a good man.
Drew- thanks man.
Jack- the honor is mine bro!
Seeking- thank you. I have to catch up on your sitch!
My condolences Erick. I have heard great things about you from Mach1. I hope things do get better it's just taking too long. God bless
Thank you Rick.
Mach is a good dude. You should try his chilli.
Happy Birthday Eric.
You must have told MWD the wrong date for your BD there is no CAKE here.
Well Hopefully you will be getting cake for dinner.
Is today your birthday? If it is, Happy Birthday!
Yep.... i turn 34 today.... oops... i meant 43
Thx Cadet and Snodderly!
Happy birthday buddy. You've been a great help. Hope you have a great day!
Absolutely. Hippo Birdies, old man
Thanks guys... had a wonderful birthday with the fam.
New thread please.
Happy B Day too.
I am going to get you in trouble with Jack but just wanted to say
Thanks for dinner.
Great meeting you hope we can do it again.
Your welcome and it was my pleasure.
Eric
Hey Warrior....
Nice to see...err...read you
I'm not sure I would call it a date...but Cadet and I did "hook up"
I'll be heading your way next year.
Hi Rick - Thanks for dropping by.
