When you first find yourself here.

You have typed in �Divorce Advice� or �I love you but I�m not in love with you anymore� into whatever search engine you use, and you found this place.

When you first find yourself reading this board there is a certain desperate craziness and wild hope. And you read and you search and search for the elusive �success�* stories and in many cases you lurk, you read, you discover a few posters you identify with and follow their story or advice. You figure out the lay of the land and how to navigate around here.

You post. You story sounds similar to countless others, and I am not making light of it, it is a sad thing that it does sound similar.

And deep inside a part of you thinks you are different than countless others.

In truth you are a unique snowflake, but in the heat of a mid-life crisis, you are similar to all the other water molecules.

There are immediate problems the new comer here in MLC should realize and damn quick:

There is NO Quick Fix to this.

You CANNOT fix this.

The �success�* stories, do not have anything more than you do or are capable of doing. They just know the DBing rules better than you�and they had patience and luck.

Your tactics are tactics, your tricks are tricks.

YOU ARE part of the problem.

You can only control yourself.

DO NOT involve your children.

YOU CAN DO THIS.

Those things you need to accept as quickly as possible.

Things you shouldn�t do but are going to do anyway:
Do not snoop.

Do not tell them I love you.

Do not talk about your relationship.

Do not confront the OP (Other Person).

The �success�* stories you have discovered have several things in common.

They are:

Patience. They outlasted their spouse�s MLC.

Support. They told family and friends, to back off about their divorce advice.

Their spouse had an MLC. Sounds strange to list but it is a common factor.

They worked on THEMSELVES. They looked in the mirror and changed their crappy, whinny, entitled behavior. They saw what was weak and broken in themselves and fixed it. AND they used the time their spouse was in their MLC to do this. They made REAL changes and became better. They knew that they helped the downfall of their marriage.

They FORGAVE. Despite the hurt and pain, they forgave their spouse. And make no mistake, this is not as easy as you think it is.

Here in MLC, there is no guarantee. Some of the best advice comes from those you would not define as a �success�* in your narrow view point. You want only the �successful�* advice, and� there is going to be little difference except in your mind, about the advice.

I made it through here. I came through the hell-fire of my wife�s MLC, not because of the advice from on high, although Snodderly�s words of encouragement helped. (Thank you Snodderly) I made it through because of the support and advice from the people who were right in the same time frame as I was. Right NEXT to me. Liss, and BrandNewDay, and Jeanette and Valentine, and Smurf, and WAS, RedUmbrella. Each one of alone in our hell but right there for each other, egging us on. Worrying about each other.

I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB�not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.

I wonder, if us �old wise� ones aren�t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Birds won�t fly unless they are pushed out of the nest.

* �success� � The idea that a person is only successful because their spouse came back is ludicrous and narrow minded.
Your spouse can come back at anytime, but until YOU make changes in yourself and FOR yourself, you have failed. The REAL success are the people who came here broken, and fixed themselves, became better people, no matter if their spouse came back. And in THOSE cases, those who better themselves�their marriage is better for it. But that is not important�THEY are better for it.

to add to Jack's great post, there are an swful lot of success stories...in terms of personal successes

KSChick
Aud
Cinders
FriendlyOne
Lissie
BaseballAnnie
and
well

there is me!!!

We are all living testimonies to the advice of work on yourself and you will be a success no matter what the outcome of your marriage

We are better, stronger, braver, more at peace, smarter, wiser and more grateful

there is great successes to be found if you are willing to go the distance

I like myself so much better than a year ago. Of course I contributed to the collapse of my marriage, however I spent far too long blaming myself for everything. I found great support in a rebuilding workshop and am moving forward, day by day. I really, really like who I am and I look forward to my new and amazing life. I'm in the midst of a divorce and it's not what I wanted, but financially it's just something I had to do. Sometimes I allow myself to think about what life could be like when/if he decides to return. But, I don't spend too much time on that either. I'm too busy working on myself...Cheers!

Jack said it Right!!!!!!!!!!

We all kind of follow the same steps as do our MLC spouses. The things that Jack listed as things that we should not do (but usually do anyways) is where I feel that most people will make mistakes. They will do the snooping and bargaining and whining - instead of completely trying to make themselves feel better putting the focus on themselves completely.

I often did the GAL thing to stay occupied and to grow and to not be lonely. It helped a lot and it kept me so busy that I was hardly ever home at night after work.

Work on your self and it will pay off. Even if you dont know where to begin in order to better your life -start by doing GAL activities and it will help.

I am so glad to see that golfgirl is as happy as she is despite the fact that her marriage has ended.She did what was right for her and is now moving forward with a positive attitude. So even though she may not have her H back - she is a winner in my eyes. SHe is strong independent and you can feel her happiness is true. She has also been as successful as those who do get their spouses back.

Forgiveness is very hard and people need to be prepared for that struggle if they make it that far, and that should start with the situation they are in right now.

Great advice Jack,
TIPPER

I, for one, am SO thankful for this site. Even though I did end up divorced, I am such a better parent, partner, basically EVERYTHING after going through the journey and opening my eyes to my own faults and areas that I needed to address. I do not consider this a failure in any way, shape, or form. I am proud of the happy, independent, strong woman I have become.

Amen to that J3B ......well said......

Thankyou Jack and everyone here for sharing your stories, your failures and your personal successes!

Great, great insights and advice!

I am nowhere close to where I want me to be-yet. But I'm getting there. Patience with the sitch is needed, but also patience with ourselves and where we have to get to is just necessary to become better people.

My thanks to those who continue to give great advice to help each of US on OUR journey. Mucho gracias!

Great post, Jack!

I, too, am a success story from a long time ago, and I am one of the "OLD WISE ONES" that Jack just insulted, LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

I didn't know that requirement of coming back for awhile to help meant that I was supposed to be toting a diaper bag plus bottles and baby food! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!
I laughed in spite of myself when I read that, and don't take it personally at all; I actually NEEDED to laugh tonight.

I know what he means, though; as we in the past, had to "search" this out to better understand what we were dealing with, you too, will have to do the same.
We may be here to assist you, as someone always so aptly puts it, but we can't do this for you...you are on your own.

Quote:

I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB�not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.

I wonder, if us �old wise� ones aren�t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Although, I laughed at that comment, I respectfully agree to disagree, Jack and I'll tell you why; someone always NEEDS to be here to help lead the way, IMHO.

FWIW, the birds DO eventually fly from the nest, I know I did, going on to better things...and everyone else will, too.

When someone understands a problem, the knowledge is passed on in the form of books, articles, internet, etc.

Yet, and I know this from experience of having dealt with many, people's understanding/comprehension is reached at different times in this; no one learns at the SAME pace.
Sometimes things have to be explained in several different ways for one to "get it".
You didn't learn all this overnight, no one else will, either.

Someone was here for me, when I started here 9 years ago;(hey, I know it's been a LONG TIME) never mind that I was quick to "get it"..it didn't have anything to do with that, not at all.

The "old wise ones" were symbols of "HOPE" "FAITH" "LOVE" and a feeling I was NOT alone, plus, a possibility that things would be all right in the end, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED.

That someone has been there, made it through, and it represented the fact that I would, too, given time and learning.
It was made clear to me in the very beginning that my marriage might NOT make it, and as I grew, it became MORE clear to me.

The mentors supported me, helped me, were there when I needed a shoulder; other people were there, too in the SAME place as me, and we all stuck together as a family.

In time, I stayed on for awhile to help the others; remembering a time when I'd faced the "bomb", and was SO broken up.

The kindness here was overwhelming and it was a literal "hug" when I came in here.
I got to know SO many people in my time here.

I always knew that I couldn't help unless I'd "been there".

Patience is learned in various different ways, and one of those ways is through dealing with people with problems. God never said He would teach you patience through ordinary things..he sends you people that take a LONG time to understand something, and you learn to articulate in various different ways until the light bulb comes on in their head.

And the Lord knows I've had MANY people who tried my patience until it was exhausted, but still remembering what I'd faced before, I continued to try and help them understand.

And I still do that now, in 3-D.

Ok, Jack!

This is a "flame hijack"!!

Don't hold me in suspense, here, now! LOL!!

***holds up can of lighter fluid in one hand, a lit match in the other****

I'm waiting to get flamed!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!

Getting tired of WAITING!! LOL!! My hands are getting very tired!! LOL!!

Quote:

someone always NEEDS to be here to help lead the way, IMHO.

I don't agree.

I think we all learn from one another as we go through the journey.

I don't think that there is any single person here who has all of the answers, and that includes Michelle and even Snodderly.

When you are dealing with so many people who are all going through a similar situation it is too easy to make blanket statements.

When I was new here, it helped me to have the communication with many posters not just one single person.

I don't think she is saying one person needs to lead the way but collectively (we) need to lead the way.

Originally Posted By: JackThreeBeans

I wonder, if us �old wise� ones aren�t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Birds won�t fly unless they are pushed out of the nest.

Jack, this is something that I have been wondering and thinking about a lot lately as well.

Originally Posted By: brandnewday

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessings

someone always NEEDS to be here to help lead the way, IMHO.

I don't agree.

I think we all learn from one another as we go through the journey.

I don't think that there is any single person here who has all of the answers, and that includes Michelle and even Snodderly.

BND,

I agree with you. No one NEEDS to be here to help LEAD the way�

One of the things said to me, from someone at about the same place I am, many many months ago��we hold each other�s hands through this, walking this path, together, but ALONE�

There is no single person with all of the answers because each situation is soooo unique�Even with all of the similarities in them�

We all learn, heal, and grow at different paces�

It is hard to look at people who have done the work when you are in the pit, and begin to climb out.

Yes you UNDERSTAND that what they say is probably correct�

But to get to that point yourself, means that YOU have to do the work. YOU have to do the research, learn about MLC, depression, communication techniques, forgivness, releasing anger�

At least that is how it was for me�

The only way to do it is through it�

And whoever I stole that from�.send me a bill

Originally Posted By: OldPilot

I don't think she is saying one person needs to lead the way but collectively (we) need to lead the way.

OP,

Reread the posts please....

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessings

I didn't know that requirement of coming back for awhile to help meant that I was supposed to be toting a diaper bag plus bottles and baby food! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

HB,

While you said not to be offended, THIS was a truly callous and rude comment. Offensive to every single person on these boards. People are at all different stages here and if you really FEEL this way, maybe you should reconsider spending time here�

For me, it is comforting to have both. I think you do need mentors in this that have already experienced what you're going through as well as "peers".

There are times when you need that person to talk to that their sitch seems to be a mirror image of yours. There are also times when you need sage advice from someone who has gone through it already.

I have TF and KJ who seem to be at the same stage of the journey as I am. How should I be expected to give advice to them on something I haven't experienced? I can guess but is that fair to them?

Now when I have Jack or Lostforwords come to my thread and say that I'm doing well, I know I'm walking the right path because they've been there.

I sense a backlash lately that has gotten to the point that I don't come around much anymore.

Just my 2 cents

I agree with you D Money. I think it is comforting to have both. The reality is that everyone is different and every situation is different but what people bring is experience and a different perspective that some of us newbies need. I know I depend on everyone for my daily 2x4, daily advice, friendship, etc. I am SO thankful for this board and I think you old timers...sorry to say..may need to keep spoon feeding some us until we have the legs to stand on our own. Having said, this I do agree that at somepoint you need to cut the cord a bit.

Thank you All.

For newbies, sometimes going to the archives can help you to find a poster that has a similar situation as yourself.

For example, I was never actually served Divorce papers, nor did I ever have to deal with child custody issues or have to cope with my children having to meet with OW.

While I can definately be understanding and sympathetic I do not know what it feels like to have to go through that type of mental torture.

On the other hand, I did have to DB long distance for several years and raise my children on my own as well as dealing with a particularly nasty MLC'er.

Hope that made some sense

One of the problems I see, and one I am guilty of as well, is using this board as a sort of personal form of communication

I understand being in the mix of nastiness and despair and needed any kind of comfort possible

so my comment I guess is to us "old timers"

I think our posting should be more about DBing and less about pages of stuff no one gets but the person replying back and forth with us...that can better be accomplished in some other forum.

There are several people I check on
several times I have been asked to reply or respond to someone

but

my journey is now not about MLC or surviving the divorce

it is about day to day life

which should be what most of us old timers lives are about

I would agree that there are many successes here (and thank you Figgeroni! Smooches to you!)

I also agree that there's a group that seems to form when you're here - those who are in the same boat at the same time...and you kind of help one another out. It's much easier to hand out advice than it is to take it!

Hmmm... well, I think a lot of this depends on personalities. I think when we first come here, hurting and raw, that we seek out those we can relate to and that seem similar in personality.

The very first thing that I found that was beneficial to me on this board was the whole idea that I was not alone in the world on this crazy ride. JUST that alone, some companionship and knowing that others were in the same boat, helped me to start healing slowly. I for one felt a huge sense of isolation like I was alone on this drifting raft just struggling to stay above water. Truly, people do not understand this experience unless they have been there. Friends, family, nobody "gets" it unless they have walked this path. Just finding a group of people that "get it" helps tremendously.

I think everyone has different needs that are met through this board. Mine were (are) companionship, understanding, some good advice, and the occasional clonk in the head to think of things from another perspective.

I don't think we can make a blanket statement about anyone or anything going on here. I am a big believer in each person being an individual with his/her own personality and different needs. Maybe that comes from my career background, cuz I see that so much with my at risk students. People are alike in so many ways, yet we have to understand what makes them tick may be very different.

I do know that I think that my healing was sped up and helped tremendously by having this site. I also know that some people here helped calm me down when I needed it, see other perspectives, not be so damm stubborn, and many other things. SOOO, I would say for me it was more about the personality aspects.

If it weren't for B, Jack, trapt, mach, and a few others that were there in the beginning for me, I might still be spinning around like a really angry, stubborn, I'm right about everything top over a year later.

So, I say to each his own. Whatever needs this site meets for you as long as you learn and grow from it then it's all good!

Correctly though, nobody can spoon feed someone what the right answer is and expect them to learn from it. Helpful advice, yes. BUT we learn by analyzing and doing ourselves. Just as I cannot sit and tell my students the correct answers and expect them to learn, we all have to walk our own path here with a little wise guidance from others.

What helped me the most was having others to lean on when I felt that I could no longer continue down the path and they helped me along.

Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish?

While I DO NOT want my son to burn his hand on the stove...the lesson is learned with great example and pain rather than some phrase of "Stove Hot" in his head.

As of late,

as of late...

I am seeing less of the company of peers supporting each other, and I am seeing more edicts from on high. I fall into that catagory.

I see more new people asking the 'success' stories directly for help, and if you haven't figured it out yet : ) that burns me a bit. It is dismissive of others who have put in hard time here been knocked around and are awesome people, who take the time to post to help...and to be willing able and capable of doing that, but to be overlooked by some noob's whacked concept of 'success'?

I understand it. I understand the neediness of it. What they don't understand is the feeling of being looked over.

You also do not understand that there is a certain ammount of pressure in being called out by name. You say, Jack or BND, or Pilot or Snodderly or HB look at this...

There is pressure...and we do not have all the answers, and we certainly do not want to lead you wrong in your goals, which will evolve hopefully down the road.

HB,

No flaming, no need. The 'wise old ones' was for many of us, not directed at any one person.

What got my panties in a bunch, was reading that you didn't read anyone else advice before you posted. I do not believe you meant to be dismissive of others thoughts or words. And perhaps I shouldn't have felt that way...we are unable to contact each other outside the board to clear air. That got to me a bit.

This is for the general posters of advice now, not directed at any one person, and for myself as well.

We need to be accountable, not flippant for the advice we give.

If we 'mentor' we need to be there for a person.

We DO NOT KNOW what anyone else is thinking, MLC has trends but tht is all.

When I am blunt or sarcastic it is for purpose. It is to make a poster mad...hopefully at themselves for stupid actions or to break them out of their little pity party.

YOU NEW PEOPLE.

YOU need to find others like you, and support each other. You need to grow strong and lean, not fat. You need to make the friendships that will carry you longer than any of us 'old ones' can. Let me tell you a 3 am phone call which is not allowed here made more of a difference to me than a week being on the board. And helped me continue.

No flames please, not on this thread.

Maybe one of the things that helped me in the begining was also to have some lighthearted moments.

We had threads about cooking and kids and our pets and hobbies and the cyber WAS-BUSTA van drivng all over the country.

There were hundreds of other things to talk about which was a wonderful distraction at times.

I think BND...that was my point...it was so helpful to all of us because we were in the thick of it...you know

we all had locations for the WAS-BUSTA to stop

and

superhero capes
and
poolboys

because we were like a little group
a bunch of people trying to cheer each other on
to celebrate successes and empathize with new pain discovered

I am not flaming anyone, I hope Jack, as I have stated I am as guilty of this as anyone

but perhaps

our group should be more of the helping kind
and
less of the inside joke kind...

I love the threads about kids
and I say maybe the more respected and venerated of the old-timers shoudl direct that
start a thread
but one that can be beneficial to the newcomers too
the ones that are in the middle of it all
instead of just 100 posts of inside jokes

maybe not

maybe we are all not as far along as we would hope to be
maybe we still need that
maybe I haven't had enough coffee or maybe I have had too much

Good post Jack.

I think of it as like starting a new year of school in a totaly new area/community. You bond better over time over with those in the same shoes at the same time. All the while you make 'friends' with someone whose been at te school a bit, and hope they take you under their wing.

I think maybe to elaborate from how I intereperate all this, plaease do not try and seek out the help directly of those who either saved their M, reconcilled pre or post divorce, in hopes that comment and 'advice' rendered will offer quick resolve to you situations. I think I can safely say, any of us who have in fact turned things around, or simply made it through the hell that is losing your M, your spouse, and all the years of work that went into it all, CERTAINLY did not do it overnight and learned through the school of hard knocks, for a long, long time.

Heck, even still learning.

OK I get it now Fig, thanks for clarifying....I am a bit slow today

And another thing....

When you are new here, you don't want to hear that you will be a success even if your Marriage ends in Divorce.

You don't want to hear that just because you haven't discovered it yet, there is probably OW/OM in the picture.

You don't want to hear from someone who is Divorced because maybe they didn't DB properly and you seek out those who are in piecing or those who reconcilled.

It also goes against our nature to shut our mouthes and stop defending ourselves and to actually look at ourselves in the mirror and see our contribution to the Marriage.

It is when we begin to change because we have to and we learn to stand on our own two feet then we are a success REGARDLESS if our WAS ever comes back home again.

Quote:

I think maybe to elaborate from how I intereperate all this, plaease do not try and seek out the help directly of those who either saved their M, reconcilled pre or post divorce, in hopes that comment and 'advice' rendered will offer quick resolve to you situations. I think I can safely say, any of us who have in fact turned things around, or simply made it through the hell that is losing your M, your spouse, and all the years of work that went into it all, CERTAINLY did not do it overnight and learned through the school of hard knocks, for a long, long time

Quote:

maybe I haven't had enough coffee or maybe I have had too much

Edited by figgeroni (28 minutes 20 seconds ago)
Edit Reason: I can't type

LOL I love that you write such eloquent, insightful posts mixed in with a bit of humor! Its one of the things that got me through some very tough days :-)

Originally Posted By: brandnewday

When you are new here, you don't want to hear that you will be a success even if your Marriage ends in Divorce.

This is probably the main reason I don't post any updates on my sitch, and why I merely try to advise others to hopefully avoid some of the mistakes I made.

And I suspect that's why some posters seem to gloss over my advice and reply only to those who support their actions. No matter, I will continue offer challenges to those who are "stuck" in the hopes that I might help others as I was helped here.

My friends here know "the rest of the story" and that's fine with me.

And there are even some here who don't know, but are still blessed.

BTW there's a new guy in Newcomers (gr8...) who could use some help.

Jack, Fig, ......Just kidding on the calling out - - but.......he can use some other advice besides mine and a few others...please.

why can't I find this newcomer????

gr8 day 2B alive

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942554

lol I see you found it

Having to convince someone to stay and DB is long odds at best.

: (

I stay away from Newcomers for the most part. IF when they find their way to MLC Land... I figure they might have what it takes to make stick long enough for advice to seep in. I see Newcomers as a winnowing process.

And the advice, doesn't mix well. Like butane and an open flame at times.

I like fire..

Oh wait.....never mind.

that is a good point. I don't know if his wife is MLC. I think he was saying he'd checked out other parts of the board but didn't see a true "fit" with his sitch.

I don't miss those times. God the pain. Blah.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

And the advice, doesn't mix well. Like butane and an open flame at times.

I'm not so sure. Bear with me a moment and realize these are only my opinions:

I think the advice for both straight WAS and MLC'ers is similar:

-Establish boundaries, particularly when it comes to the OP.
-GAL
-Work on yourself.
-Don't push.
-No R talks.
-No ILY's.
-Etc.

I think the differences are (in most cases) that with a WAS the "issues" lie with the LBS, where in an MLC the "issues" lie with the MLC'er. I also think that the chances of reconcilation are greater with MLC if the LBS is willing to wait it out.

I also think that MLC requires much more patience than WAS.

But the advice being THAT different? Not so sure. And probably why I don't restrict myself to any one forum.

Comments?

Your opinions bear weight Drew.

I agree with all except:

-Establish boundaries, particularly when it comes to the OP.

I still feel and see boundaries with an MLC at the begining as a great way to fast track them out of the LBSers life. Come across as controling and everything the MLC wants to get away from.

Later? Yes...later.

All the rest. Agree 100% with.

Funny huh? I'm blunt, and I'm saying that Newcomers is a bit more confrontational...

To me it is.

With MLC seldom do good things come from speed.

I don't really think it's just MLC that you can't speed through though. If you don't take the time to truly work on you and not just do it for show to please someone....you aren't really making changes or positive steps.....

* drops her pennies in the bucket

Jack...I disagree...you have to have boundaries...not so much for your MLC WAS but for yourself.

You need to keep yourself safe most of all

you need to have boundaries
maybe not spelled out like "If you do this then I will do this"
but more along the lines of ones for you...unspoken...in your noggin
I will walk away if they speak to me in such a way
I will not let them push me into an argument

you know
boundaries are boundaries
they don't always need to be laid out for people to find them

Quote:

And I suspect that's why some posters seem to gloss over my advice and reply only to those who support their actions.

I hope no one glosses over your advice Drew.. You have helped me & many so much... At those rough times... I remember them being tuff, but thank God I don't remember the intensity of the pain.

Every one here will get it.. Whatever that IT is for them..

They will read the advice and put it to work for them. I never thought in a million years I would be divorced, and I never thought in another million years, I would be so good at being divorced....:-)

Have Faith .

Birds will fly, on their own, and at their own time.. The view they will see will be breath taking and they will know it was all worth it..This journey never ends...It is a gift that will be cultivated for the rest of your days....single, married, re married whatever....

Enjoy the ride.....http://lshs64.com/enjoytheride.html

Point taken.

And I agree with Newcomers being more confrontational, at least more than it used to be. There definitely seem to be more people in the "confront the affair head on" school of thought, then the "don't dignify it by even acknowingly it" strategy.

And to this day, I'm not sure if my ex was WAW or MLC, but you know what?

It is what it is.

Good discussion.

I was going to add something profound and witty but sometimes nothing needs to be said

of course I did say all this now

and

those newcomers, some are like hellcats...sheeeeeeesh...I just remember laughing and crying on here and praying and lots and lots of recipes!!!!

(((((((Lissie))))))

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I still feel and see boundaries with an MLC at the begining as a great way to fast track them out of the LBSers life. Come across as controling and everything the MLC wants to get away from.

I think maybe the consequences part of boundaries is what you feel drives the MLC'er away?

What I find discouraging sometimes and admittedly frustrating, I have come accross several "newer" members who right out of the box are trying to determine if their spouse is a WAS or in MLC, some ever so determined in their analysis, how is one concidered at mid-life crisis when they in their 20'S?

Same answer each time, it doesn't matter which they are or aren't in. The fact of the matter is they are unhappy enough to throw everything away, and or cheat, destroy the children's lives, and to do this there MUST be valid reason to do so.

And it's the folks that want to argue, "no, my W/H is in MLC, I'm sure" who are the very same ones that will say they, themselves were the perfect spouse and did NOTHING wrong, and really delay the process.

I meant boundaries with the OP.

Specifically?

"Me or him!"

Thats a no brainer to see how that will turn out.

Yes to boundaries in so much as "You will not sleep* with him in my bed while I'm in the smae room/house."

But a boundary with "Do not see him or I will walk away..."

...

Not many have the ability to walk away, the MLCer calls the bluff and now the LBS has no...bite.

I just see it as bad strategy.

Once the LBSer has been established as a changed and better person in the eys of the MLCer the boundary MIGHT work...they sure as should be in place if/when the MLC wants to 'work' on the relationship.

Hi Liss. : )

* sleep - come on really, you know what I mean?

I agree with Fig....The boundaries are for ourselves. I will admit that I sometimes float into the newcomer realm to mix things up......but the confrontation before addressing their own issues thing just eats me up.

I am still waiting to see the perfect person....until that time I accept we all have faults. How we deal with those faults is what defines us.

In the end...success is about ourselves and rising above the carnage.....which in IMHO speaks loudly of the people who choose this route.

"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world - that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves. " Gandhi

Now there is a guy with some strength.

I'm not so sure the whole MLC/WAS thing means as much after time..

A lot of people question this until they FINALLY learn that this journey isn't about their spouse so much as it is about THEM...

Mis-guided boundries are the killer....on either...

Originally Posted By: Drew

And to this day, I'm not sure if my ex was WAW or MLC, but you know what?

It is what it is.

EXACTLY.......

I'm back to posting a bit more than before mostly because of the chaos that I keep finding in Newcomers.

When I first came here, I started out in Newcomers. If some of the more experienced folk hadn't come along and reached out to me, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to fix my focus.

There's just too much pain and confusion in our lives when our spouse tells us they are done. Too much.

Those folks over there need someone reaching out to them, helping them to get their feet under themselves, helping them to make some sense of what is happening and how to begin to survive it.

I learned here, in some cases from some of you, that there is little that you can do initially to help your situation...but there is LOTS you can do to do it further damage. That's what worries me about over there right now. Person after person is arriving shell-shocked and being told a) that their spouse is probably having an affair, and b) that they should tell them to stop the affair or get out.

All that kind of advice does is place both the burden and the focus on the wandering spouse.

It's a shame.

Totally agree B....I think only the really tough ones make it out of Newcomers....but like Jack said....maybe it is cutting out those who aren't really ready for the next steps.

Bill,

I do not know if you ever saw the post about a week or two ago on my other thread. Basically you and Deb are class acts.

I saw what happened over in newcomers.

For what you do there, you have my respect...but not only for that. You are an example many here should aspire to.

Maybe its the tired in me not looking to kick over the anthill. : )

Maybe not everyone can be saved.

Maybe I'm not that brave, or too selfish to spend my time fighting the current.

In that, I also admire you your conviction.

When I first found myself here, I was still trying to find myself period.

I pulled up my posts from 2 years ago. I thought I had made some progress, which I have.

It's easy to see now how much further I have to go to get where I can be happy with me, let alone her possibly being happy with me.

When you come here you are looking for the magic wand. It takes awhile to figure out-there ain't one.

No guarantees-just hard work. But if you work hard enough, you'll be ok. I'm still going through the process, and processing.

Having been here for a year now, I have to say that the help, guidance and advice I received from everyone helped give me perspective.

I think that perspective is especially helpful when you find your life spun around by a spouse going through a major transition (MLC/WAS-whatever you want to call it) and you are in the thick of it. To understand that you are truly not insane as you might think because of your spouse's rewriting history...To be given guidance to put your energy and effort where it helps the most(in yourself).. all kinds of golden lessons were shared with me along the way!

I can see how frustrating it is to offer these lessons/perspectives and watch a newcomer flounder and really miss the lesson.

I think it is extremely helpful to hear others' stories, to find similarities (((DM, TF))), and watch our stories unfold in the directions they will. To support and care for strangers here(who become friends of sorts) helps keep us on track, becoming the people we were meant to be...

No story is exactly the same.

I truly admire the people here who have made it through this stage of their journey, with whatever outcome they had, and take the time to help others. I thank all of you.

It is absolutely critical to do some work on your own and not rely solely on this board to get you through.

Not that my opinion is needed or wanted on this thread but it just wouldn't be me if I kept quiet would it Jack????

I have been away for a while, plan on staying that way for the most part.

I wonder why it is that we try and focus people on getting a life and making changes that are permanent around here?

Then we wonder why they fly the nest and aren't around anymore. I used to wonder..... Then I realized that sometimes it is because they become healthy.

Not everyone disappears because they failed, most do so because they have succeeded. In fact sometimes I am amazed at how many folks find the ability to move on and then how many get stuck....

How much time this sight has the ability to take away from our lives is incredible. For a time we need it, then there comes a time when we shouldnt anymore....IMO

Not to scrutinize here Jack, but how much time do you spend still doing this? Between this and your gaming I don't know how the hell you get anything else done....

It's great to have experience around to support those beginning their journeys here, but there is a huge difference between being supportive and being addicted to the "high" of posting to people. Thats what God created a Psych degree for.

Personally I took a look at how much time I spent on here and came to a huge realization that it was time being taken away from my kids, my family, my schoolwork, my job, and my ability to work on new relationships. I finally asked myself the question that needed to be asked... If my boss, my kids, my girlfriend, or my friends knew how much time I spent on it would they approve.... Nope....

Even Divorce Busting has to fit into a realistic schedule at some point.

Don't get me wrong.. if someone said to me that a new poster could use my input I would make the time to try and offer some help, I just wouldnt be looking for it on my own....

So in my opinion Jack, sometimes it hurts for us to be around, but not just other posters, our families, our work, and ourselves.

Ian

Hello Everyone,

This is NOT a flame, but only my thoughts; take it or leave it.

***note***The questions I ask within this post require NO answers, they are for thinking purposes only, and intended to make people think about what they say BEFORE they say it. I'm just as guilty as most for sometimes not thinking before I speak, I make NO excuses for what I say, I simply take responsibility for it when called on it, apologize and make amends if they can be made, going on.
I am NOT responsible for any misunderstanding that comes about because people are either twisting up what I've said or deliberately ignoring the advice I give.
That is NOT my problem, and I will NOT make it mine.

If the joke about diapers, baby bottles and baby food offended ANYONE; it was NOT meant to do so; and I do apologize. I was relating in a hilarious way to Jack's post about feeding and burping people on advice, and that is how I took the statement; and I do believe I am NOT the only one who did take it that way.
And to say I might actually feel this way was WAY OUT OF LINE, as I DO NOT.
That is twisted thinking presuming you know how I think, when you DON'T.

Take some healthy advice from one who knows:
Don't ever say things and not expect the person it's said to not to say anything about it, and be prepared to hear something you do NOT like.
Each person is entitled to their opinions, sure, and I can live with that, can you?

If you get mad at anything I've written here, well, sometimes you have to get mad in order to heal the problem within YOU. You gotta get glad in the same britches you got mad in, eventually, and that's a fact.

I make my own mistakes, and will admit to those mistakes, not anyone else's.
That said, I have NO interest in the feuding that must have been going on since BEFORE I got here.
But, somehow, I seem to have gotten dragged into it; I don't know what the intentions were/are...if it was meant to "railroad" me off this board; you will NOT get your wish.

I will leave when I'm good and ready to do so; I've done NOTHING to anyone that I can see that would even be remotely wrong. I may have stuck my foot in my mouth a few times, committed a "tongue in cheek"..but nothing that would warrant the type of behavior I've seen out of a few of you.
I'm just here, and an unwelcome guest, is that it? Do you feel "threatened" by me?
Am I getting warm, or even hot with that question?
You shouldn't be, as my intentions are pure, always have been. I'm here for my own reasons, not to upset the status quo here, or even to "take over" and steal the show from anyone.

You actually ought to be GLAD someone is willing to come back to help for awhile instead of being jealous of the attention they get. I didn't ask for people to start "grabbing" onto me when I arrived, they just did...and they shouldn't be afraid to ask any one of us for help if they need it.
But they are, because of people's "jealousy" for the spotlight, and I think that's downright disgusting.

In case any of YOU don't "get it", you represent certain things to the newbies and others who come in search of help...you represent "help" "hope" "love" and a sense they are NOT alone in their struggle with this.
It's time all of you remembered this and many other things instead of sniping about who is asked for help....this is STUPID!

What follows is a generalized post, not directed at any one person; but if it hits you wrong or otherwise, you know who you are.

You can say whatever you want about me, you cannot hurt me personally. I don't have to live with you, associate with you, nor do I have to do anything I don't want to do.

Whatever you say from here on out, though, is a reflection on YOU, not me.

I've read every post here on this thread. I don't anger so easily any more..that was a change I welcomed when I finished my own growing process.

I am what I am and have become over the years. What's been said to me and about me, on this thread is nothing in the scope of a bigger picture.
In ten years, or less, it won't matter, anyway..most of you will have gone on to better things, and better lives.

It is all too easy to attack someone you cannot see, that cannot get to you, if that poster was of a mind to, and all too easy to forget there is a PERSON behind the keyboard of each computer at ALL times with feelings, etc.

IF I reconsider my time here, it will be because of the ATTITUDE that is prevalent here; this doesn't seem like a good place to be right now; and I felt it when I came back this time.
It's a totally DIFFERENT atmosphere than what it was since I was here before; and I DID almost leave not long after I got back here.
I'm still here, though, and will stay on for awhile, regardless of what anyone here thinks.

Regarding the disagreement about "leading" and what I meant by that; OP was correct in his interpretation, FWIW.....

I MEANT what I said, when I spoke of someone always needing to be here to lead...but I didn't mean ONE person; I meant people whether's it ONE or MORE who've been there, done that, knew how to begin to assist/help new people begin to make their way.

Do you really think people can ALWAYS make it alone? Some need help finding a direction to start in. You may say you probaly didn't need help in the beginning, but I don't believe that for a minute.

I'm NOT a callous, unfeeling person, never was and never will be, and all I care about are the people here that are hurting; not those of you who have problems with ego, and really do need to grow up some more.
And you know who you are.

One other thing that seems to be lacking is COMPASSION for others, especially the MLC'er. One piece of evidence I saw lay in a post about the MLC'er's appearance that has since been buried for lack of interest. And I can see why.

No matter how my husband looked during his MLC, it was NOT a subject for jokes, and to me that particular thread was in VERY bad taste.
In my opinion, it was also VERY disrespectful, and the poster who objected to it had a right to.
And that person got insulted and ridiculed, and belittled. What kind of example is that to set? We are judged by the kind of example we set for others, and I do bear that mind each day as I go through my life.
You may think it's funny, but unless you've walked that path, you've NO idea what your spouse went through, and since perceptions are skewed during MLC, they had NO idea of how they looked; only that they looked "cool".
Afterwards, it is a source of shame for them, something they would rather forget.
What if the shoe was on the other foot? It's something to think about.
I started to post this opinion on that thread, and changed my mind because the thread did NOT deserve any time to be seen again to intensify someone's hurt, wasn't helpful, and people, no matter what they do, do NOT deserve to be made fun of.

There is enough misery here without creating any more through unfeeling threads.

It seemed to be all right to put something like that up, as I did read who was laughing within the thread; but my response to Jack about "spoon feeding and burping people on advice" wasn't? I've apologized for that mistake at the beginning of this post, as insult to anyone was NOT my intention, but laughing at the MLC'er doesn't fall under the same heading? Why? Because they're different you think, because someone else posted that, and you agreed with it, but not with me and this entirely different situation?
It could be looked at as the SAME thing, if you think about it.

I KNEW I would get flamed for it, and waited on the flame to appear, and it did.

Did it even occur to any of you that that very statement itself could have been or could be, construed as offensive, even if I hadn't posted ANY answer to it?

People do not want to be regarded this way; as being compared to children/babies in the giving of advice; there is such a thing as dignity and respect; and I could have posted a total objection the other way, and actually started to, but didn't.
I already know if I had, someone would have disagreed, as it always seems to be a fight to prove me wrong; what's the problem with this picture?

I'm being blunt, straight and to the absolute point. This is ridiculous that it has to come to this.

For your information, it was ALWAYS my habit before NOT to read other people's answers before I posted my own.
Not that I think mine are better, but it was for good reason.
I learned this a long time ago..it is all a part of being an INDIVIDUAL.
Reading another's answers before answering with your own view, can have the tendency to "color" your perception, instead of really looking within for your OWN INDIVIDUAL answer; which may something different, but no less important than another's.
The differing viewpoints, are actually GOOD things, and can be sorted by the recipient for what one would need to deal with whatever aspect is being dealt with in MLC or whatever the problem.

Besides, I even said I DID read other people's answers AFTER I posted mine; just to see what others were saying.

I have NEVER expected ANYONE to "back me up", nor do I expect anyone to read my answers before posting their own...each person is DIFFERENT, get it? DIFFERENT, each situation is DIFFERENT, and no one's answer is TOTALLY EVER RIGHT..one may see something that another doesn't see.
COLLABORATION is always a good thing...that's why I invited all of you onto the Q&A thread that I set up; I wasn't trying to shut ANY of you out.

You really don't know me; and I could care less what you think of me. Neither have any of you even BOTHERED to get to know me..some of you have harrassed me, presuming to tell me what to do and how to do it.....I've ignored it and taken the high road until now.

I seem to have stumbled onto someone's territory, people think they are being "threatened"; that's ALSO the feeling I've gotten.... but the last time I checked Michelle owns this board, not any of you.

I also remember seeing people come back in that were where I am now, when I was here before, and people flocked to ask them questions..I was a mentor by then, and didn't feel in the least threatened, I even had questions to ask, as these people were far beyond where I was.
I wanted to know what it was like down the road from THEIR point of view.

I was grateful for any time I got from them, because I knew they did NOT have to even come back and stay for any length of time, they were done with this.
This was a place I wanted to reach myself, and so I drew upon their wisdom.

I, like you "old timers" had done quite a bit of work, but there was SO much more to learn..or maybe my attitude was and is a lot different, and this is NOT an arrogant statement, it is who I am.

We can always stand to always learn from others who have been this way before, and went on to greater and better things.

And you know, it's a shame if you can't feel the way I did about people like me that have progressed beyond this time in their lives, and are willing to come back for a season to help.
There were people as I remember, who reacted in the past the SAME way some of you have present-day toward these "Wise Ones".

And that was a shame in itself, because we could have learned a great deal, if minds and hearts would have stayed open. But they didn't..and these people left again after a very short period of time.
That, to me, was the closeminded people's LOSS, and I see this in hindsight.

I have never minded being asked to look in upon a poster, I don't have ANY ego, or illusions about ME. I don't feel any "pressure" of any sort.
It's a privilege to be able to use my experience to help others; I cannot help anyone until I have walked that same road, taken that same path.
It was NEVER a burden or a "duty" it's something I just DO. No one has ANY reason to be "threatened" by me or anyone else who has experience to share.

I never said I had "all the answers" NO ONE DOES.
I simply do the best I can to answer, and that I have always done.
It has actually surprised me to have people even ask for my opinion, I'm not someone they know personally.

It is within me to help people..why is that such a bad thing here?
Why is it that because I'm asked for help it seems to be "offensive" to you? I'm NOT like THAT. I've always welcomed ALL the help I could get, and never had a problem sharing things with others...I don't understand this attitude at all, and probably never will.

Anyone here on this thread who has a problem with me, will need to look within to see what the REAL problem might be..it's not with me, doesn't have anything to do with me; I'm just an easy target, because I'm HERE at the moment, and not elsewhere.

If it wasn't me, it would have been someone else. You may deny this, but you may also find with a little honest soul-searching, it's the TRUTH.

And I'm tired of continuing to overlook the problems here, and watching them get bigger by the day.
Also, I see/feel the fear here, and there shouldn't be any at all. People are scared enough in their very lives; this place should be a "safe haven" for the hurting, and it's NOT.

Things need to CHANGE.

Jack,from the bottom of my heart, you actually did ME a favor by posting this opening thread, and though again, I made a mistake, sticking my foot in my mouth, LOL,....it helped to bring some things to a head, and I thank you for this opportunity.

Originally Posted By: cat04

Originally Posted By: JackThreeBeans

I wonder, if us �old wise� ones aren�t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Birds won�t fly unless they are pushed out of the nest.

Jack, this is something that I have been wondering and thinking about a lot lately as well.

This may be my last post having nothing to do with this thread but for personal reasons but I felt a need to respond.

If the mother bird pushes an egg out of the nest. What happens?
The mother needs to hatch the egg, feed the baby take care of it and yes eventually push it out of the nest. You guys logic is not complete. Wise people, dumb people they all need to make their comments. Cat I did reread the post and I find nothing wrong with what HB wrote. Maybe I am at a different place in my life. I truly appreciate all the advice that everyone on this board has given me. You are all much younger than I am but that does not mean that I have not valued your advice. You have been through the battles of MLC and you all have unique perspectives.

I understand your need to try to pay back the advice you have been given. I respect that and agree that it is necessary.

Cat, Jack, BND, and all the people mentoring, You are wise and you need to rethink why you are here and what you need from this site. I disagree with HB that there was a problem here before and frankly I am surprised that there is a problem now.

You guys (collectively) saved someones life(really) in the last few days. That should make you feel really good. It makes me feel good. If you had not taken the steps you did, what do you think would have happened. You could have pushed her out of the nest but she wouldn't have flown.

I truly do think that everyone here will sort out this discussion. I hope I can sort out me and return to payback all you have given me.

Take care

OP

HB,

I wrote the thread about the MLC'er and their appearance because there is some humor to be found in everything.

You say you have read every single post on this board, if so then you will remember the hell I went through with my Husband and our children.

Do not ever tell me that I haven't walked in your shoes or that I lack compassion. Please don't ever play the holier than thou card with me.

The God I worship and love held my hand tightly as I struggled to get through every single day of my Husband's MLC.

You did not raise 8 children by yourself while your Husband was 3000 miles away with his High School Sweetheart. You have no idea of the hell I endured and what I lived through.

You have made it clear that you have no idea as to any advice about young children and what they go through during their parent's crisis. I saw it first hand and had to learn how to get through every single day with 8 children grieving for their Daddy.

I am well aware of what goes through the MLC'ers head. I have seen and lived through all of the stages. I understand the torment and the agony of what they endure.

I also received the calls in the middle of the night with the suicide threats and the spew, which left me feeling totally helpless and scared for him.

I posted here several times a day seeking answers and finding a place of refuge. As the years went on I also found the ability to come along side some of the posters and offer what little advice I could give.

HB I do not need to live in the past and re-live every MLC moment. My life is full now and I am happier.My life is far from perfect but I have this totally amazing family and look forward now not backwards.

Never once have I had the feeling as if I had "arrived" just because my Husband came home again. I am no better then anyone else here, and it would be wrong of me to act as if I had all of the answers.

I do not find you a threat at all. I do however get curious when someone who has been away for so long suddenly comes back and starts posting long posts. To me it seems as though you need some type of affirmation and attention in your life that you aren't getting at home.

I prefer to stay in the background and have no desire to carry the responsibility of Queen Bee. If someone wants to get a hold of me they find me on Facebook.

As I posted, my Husband is well aware of this DB board and has read the archives and has seen what he and other MLC'ers have done to their family.

AND if he can laugh about himself and be thankful that he is no longer a part of that world, then I have no shame at all in starting that thread.

Could it just be that Jack, Bworl, HB, Mach, and I are just selfish?

In that by helping others we are helping ourselves?

BND- I thought your post was awesome and true....so if we can't laugh at our situation sometimes....what is the point? People are hurting....but the truth is the truth. No matter how funny it may be.....Now I need to go get my earring cleaned, maybe a new tattoo, and I am off to get my head shaved...oh god....I just realized. I am in MLC.....please help me JACK, BWORL, HB....LOL.

Seriously....if you can't laugh...what is there?

Can y'all not be so serious and have some zombie talk instead?

holy shitdogs

there are reasons why people come back and help and why they stay away and why they do both

now I remembered why i stay away

there are some great people on here and there are ones with screws loose

and

if everybody worried about getting their own damn life instead of everybody else's damn life

there might be a lot less people here and lot more happy families at home

and ian
i have to agree

i used to be on here all the time
it was my life line
then
I GOT my life
you know the old GAL thing we talk about
and
i had less time

i pop back in to see what is shaking
i check out the posts that people email me about

but dayum

some people I think
get their validation from here
their GAL good feelings

I guess
whatever floats their boats

I try not to care about what everyone thinks about me
and
honestly
I have my family
My friends
My faith

it's all good

the cat fights here are ridiculous
the backstabbing cliques
the gossip
it is worse than the teachers lounge up in here

was it always this way and i didn't notice

who know

all i know is
we all need to "get busy living or get busy dying"

some stuff, i believe, just me...little old humble me...could be better tackled on blogs or facebook or emails between friends...make a thread here I guess, but what is the point? Will anyone else relate?

keep files on people
use private information you have on your "friends" to hurt them
gossip
diss other people so you feel big and important

it is up to you

once again
a thread meant to help gets dragged down by a bunch of nonsense

remember...in the end, there is only one person you need to be accountable for your actions to...He knows the nature of your heart (even when you try to hide it from yourself)

and

NO
I wasn't flaming anyone
you all need to get that you aren't as important as all that

if you want to call someone out
do it loud and proud
say what you want to them
not in some veiled off-handed remarks that you can claim innocence for later with your boinked out eyes and your "I didn't say that" attitude

I could care less if BND has a hate shrine to me in her house (if you do...I hope you have some good pictures

) or that Jack wants to kick my assets (froma ll the way in Alaska) or that some shmoe doesn't know my whole story
whoopidity do da
not that people don't matter
but
if I get my self worth based off of what a bunch of people who are hurting think of me then I better seek some intensive therapy
like me
don't like me
I don't care
I don't live my life for anyone else
I LIKE ME
My Family Likes Me
that is what counts

people say shitte about people that isn't true all the time
people say shitte about me that isn't true on here
I cared once
then I realized
how deluded that was
who the H*ll cares?

if people on here's opninions matter more than the person sleeping next to you or affect the person who looks back at you from the mirror then you have a lot more issues than a Divorce Busting website can fix
if you read yourself in someone's words
THEN LOOK AT YOURSELF

jayzus, mary, joseph and all the saints

what is this? Middle school?

(and now I caused myself to get all flustered because of what some ninnies in cyberspace up and did again)

I am taking my own advice
the drama here is mental
the ones who get the accolades are too busy getting accolades to live as an example
the ones that come back to give an example get shat on
the ones that are quietly giving examples without the hero worship get dragged through stuff

eye yi yi
hasn't everyone gone through enough?

if you want to help...HELP
if you are using other people's misery to feel better about your life...STOP
if the only way you feel good is to spout off here...GET A HOBBY

Dayum...
I am going to buy some shoes
make some food
kiss my family
I am going to get busy living

(plus I am most likely banned...again...after that schpeel)

and...the names of BND and Jack and whoever else I used, I only used as examples...I really don't think BND thinks about me enough to hate me, much less build me a shrine, although I am flattered if you do

and jack and I have a history...let the gaggles choke on that one, huh???...gossip is damaging to everyone involved...to anyone who has emailed me about a poster...I don't consider that gossip...that email to help and since only my real life honest to goodness friends email me...you know what is what fer sher...and Ian...ummmmmmmm where the hell are you anyway??? I call and call (well I have that phone phobia) but I do email...

) Anyway...no one should care what the samhill I think of anyone but once again...if you read yourself in my words maybe you take a long hard look at yourself...or curse me out and go one an on about how I know diddly squat...whatever floats your boat

)

I tried to add this as an edit but apparently I am long winded

who knew :eyeroll:

Jump'n jesus on a pogo-stick,

What in thee world is goin on here?

dday101798 out (stocking shelter, umm let's see, twinkies - check, non-parishables? ah chef boyardee - check, batteries, flashlight and emergency radio - check, ummmmmmm, beer, dang it, beer, for the love of it all

)

**passing dday a Canadian Beer**

Dylan -

You forgot the ammo. Lots of ammo.

PS. Dont forget to double tap.

jumpin jesus on a pogo stick
that made me laugh so hard I may or may not a peed a bit...
where the hell are the pool boys to clean up this mess???

I miss the pool boys........

Originally Posted By: DiamondGirl

**passing dday a Canadian Beer**

Canadian, eh?

***note to self, bring VHS of Strange Brew, BETA machine broken***

Originally Posted By: KerryK

Dylan -

You forgot the ammo. Lots of ammo.

PS. Dont forget to double tap.

Ammo?????!!!!? No my brotha, these times call for the peace-pipe

, make love, not war.

Originally Posted By: figgeroni

jumpin jesus on a pogo stick
that made me laugh so hard I may or may not a peed a bit...
where the hell are the pool boys to clean up this mess???

pool boys? good question, don't have an answer yet, but will send a cabbana ASAP.

dday101798 out (contacting Margaritaville to arrange off duty cabbana boy for figg)

Is ANY of this really necessary? I'm relatively new here after a 2 yr hiatus, and I guess I've missed the flame on?

Seems we've got enough contention in our personal lives that we could do without any on a board we've come to find some peace?

Wow.

Hrnmm...

Certainly not my intention.

But good intentions do pave the golden path to hell I guess.

Fig, I would trade our history for anything : ) Seriously.

Why do I post here? This isn't even a question I have to ponder.

I post here because this is the best reminder of what NOT TO DO.

It is a daily reminder of where I came from.

A basic lessons I learned here.

IF something stings...there is some truth in it.

Did I want this to be a grumble fest? No.

I asked simply no flames.

If you cannot listen; how can you advise?

Ahhh damn it...

Fig, I WOULDN'T trade our history for anything...

...

bwahahahah,

I was wondering about that.

Hmmm. I am SOOOO ready for spring break! I hear a grande Pina Colada calling my name. : )

Live and let live people. Much love to my peeps. Yeah, I'm being silly. 2 days til spring break! Woohoo!

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB�not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.

I wonder, if us �old wise� ones aren�t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing

Although, I laughed at that comment, I respectfully agree to disagree, Jack and I'll tell you why; someone always NEEDS to be here to help lead the way, IMHO.

Many people need to be here leading the ways�there are many ways. It is not about having a specific leader. Sometimes I stood at the head and marched forward. But then I stumbled with confusion, anger, frustration or even a sorry-for-myself sob and someone else was there to take my hand, give me a hug and guide me, someone I had been leading moments before.

Being a leader without having a leader within the other followers is a lot of pressure. Often people rest their hope on the leader�hope for their own situation with advice from a leader, but sometimes the groups hopes come to rest in the leader�s situation�rising and falling with the rollercoaster in which the leader rides�not driving it. Consider if now, Jack�s wife or BND�s husband began cycling heavily once again. What if Happy_Again went back to being Finally_Free? The pressure to hold everyone else up is too much. Leaders need leading and help leading. We are all followers, leaders and side-by-side hand-holders. Db�ing is a mutual effort.

Some posters seem wise on their first day here, as though they already have this amazing insight. I can think of only a few, but they were helpful because since they were in the throes of the crisis, they taught that wisdom, confusion and stumbling are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I am seeing less of the company of peers supporting each other, and I am seeing more edicts from on high. I fall into that catagory.

I don�t read as often as I once did, but Jack, it never seemed to me that you flew so high as to melt waxen wings; you always brought yourself down with comments admitting you were �falling� into that high category. I won�t accuse you of hubris.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I see more new people asking the 'success' stories directly for help, and if you haven't figured it out yet : ) that burns me a bit. It is dismissive of others who have put in hard time here been knocked around and are awesome people, who take the time to post to help...and to be willing able and capable of doing that, but to be overlooked by some noob's whacked concept of 'success'?

I understand it. I understand the neediness of it. What they don't understand is the feeling of being looked over.

You also do not understand that there is a certain ammount of pressure in being called out by name. You say, Jack or BND, or Pilot or Snodderly or HB look at this...

To each person, what if one of your favorite DBers began to post under a different account. The new-old DBer could dispense advice, but posters would pay less attention and give it less credibility without knowing the background of either situation or advice history.

What if Braveheart started a new account and immediately started controversial discussion topics, offending posters with his challenges? Some may presently be offended, but many are tolerant and even enthusiastic with Braveheart as they know him now because he has established an identity, thereby �earning the right� to speak his mind a little more than someone who is as yet an unknown entity.

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I meant boundaries with the OP.

Specifically?

"Me or him!"

Thats a no brainer to see how that will turn out.

Yes to boundaries in so much as "You will not sleep* with him in my bed while I'm in the smae room/house."

But a boundary with "Do not see him or I will walk away..."

Okay, I get it now. But isn�t that saying �No ultimatums� rather than no boundaries?

Originally Posted By: Bworl

I learned here, in some cases from some of you, that there is little that you can do initially to help your situation...but there is LOTS you can do to do it further damage. That's what worries me about over there right now. Person after person is arriving shell-shocked and being told a) that their spouse is probably having an affair, and b) that they should tell them to stop the affair or get out.

All that kind of advice does is place both the burden and the focus on the wandering spouse.

I visited marriage builders a few years ago. I posted for only about a week. They were all about exposing the affair. Their reasonings have merit, but the posters themselves were confrontational�with the other posters who disagreed or did not follow their �holy advice.� They acknowledged no exceptions and scoffed at me when I discussed MLC�and I�d already spent a few years over here on this board.

Different forums have different approaches, some of which are considered hard-and-fast rules. No Contact is a biggie in a few, but detachment is neglected�??? This DB-MLC forum is the forum that I found was most supportive to standing.

Originally Posted By: sofaraway

It's great to have experience around to support those beginning their journeys here, but there is a huge difference between being supportive and being addicted to the "high" of posting to people. Thats what God created a Psych degree for.

But maybe Jack and BND have found a calling in being here. MyTurnNow (MTN) posted awhile back (around the holidays?); she is now a professional coach I think. For a few this may become their passion.

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing

For your information, it was ALWAYS my habit before NOT to read other people's answers before I posted my own.
Not that I think mine are better, but it was for good reason.
I learned this a long time ago..it is all a part of being an INDIVIDUAL.
Reading another's answers before answering with your own view, can have the tendency to "color" your perception, instead of really looking within for your OWN INDIVIDUAL answer; which may something different, but no less important than another's.

I do a bit of both. Sometimes I read a thread and post, other times I need to get my thoughts out without clouding my view. Both are valid�

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB�not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing

I didn't know that requirement of coming back for awhile to help meant that I was supposed to be toting a diaper bag plus bottles and baby food! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

Originally Posted By: Cat04

HB,

While you said not to be offended, THIS was a truly callous and rude comment. Offensive to every single person on these boards. People are at all different stages here and if you really FEEL this way, maybe you should reconsider spending time here�

I thought this was odd�I read Cat�s comment and though, Oh wow, she�s right that does sound rude, how odd. SO I went back to HB�s post where I realized she was referring to something from Jack�s post�I must�ve missed it, so I reread Jack�s post. Then I got it. Had HB made the comment in the absence of Jack�s post, yeah it would seem rude, but given the earlier post I think we can follow it to its source.
But HB, you admit to not always reading all posts, maybe Cat04 didn�t read all of Jack�s or she unintentionally missed or forgot about the portion you were referencing.

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing

I seem to have stumbled onto someone's territory, people think they are being "threatened"; that's ALSO the feeling I've gotten.... but the last time I checked Michelle owns this board, not any of you.

There are so many meanings there.

Originally Posted By: sofaraway

(plus I am most likely banned...again...after that schpeel)

And again�lather, rinse, repeat

Oh well�it�s been nice.

Seriously, this place has gone through storms.
But you know what doesn�t change�?
NEWBIES
People keep coming here for help. They read DR or DB or find a link and come here desperate for help. In the past posters have discussed going dark on the board and leaving when the rules change, but DB holds the newbies hostoage�kidding--but newbies will continue to come in and they need someone to greet them. Even if you cannot offer advice, support and hugs are still the best to help the quaking and the tears. This is the reason so many stick around.

HUGS

Packing my suitcase as we speak for Spring Break...

Lighting a candle for Fig's shrine and laughing my arse off at the absolute stupidity of it all.

I've missed you guys

Where we goin' BND? The first Pina Colada is on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted By: sofaraway
It's great to have experience around to support those beginning their journeys here, but there is a huge difference between being supportive and being addicted to the "high" of posting to people. Thats what God created a Psych degree for.
But maybe Jack and BND have found a calling in being here. MyTurnNow (MTN) posted awhile back (around the holidays?); she is now a professional coach I think. For a few this may become their passion.

If that is the case then when they answer the questions I wrote about how others would feel about how much they post, their conscious will be clear. But......

People have jobs, people have families, and people could be doing more with their time....

Ian

ahhh

Quote:

I finally asked myself the question that needed to be asked... If my boss, my kids, my girlfriend, or my friends knew how much time I spent on it would they approve.... Nope....

Thought I answered...

guess that one was directed at me (others) too.

Boss? No.
I did discover something however, at dinner with my former boss and IT guru...They let me have Divorce Busting. Face book gone, any game site or social network. He actually allowed it through, and the impression I got from talking with him was that come from on high.

Kids, wife? If I lost my job they'd be upset. My wife actually knows I come here. Thinks it is good now...at first she was jealous that I had a support group while she never did for her MLC.

Friends?
...hell some of my friends here have 'met' my real life friends. Killed each other and zombies together.

My job is such that I can post from it. My style is short.
Similar to firing off an email to coworker about plans later. Or my wife.

When I am home? I seldom post here. I spend enough time at work in front of a computer.

Thank you for worrying about my conscious...its pretty clear though.

Not checking your concious Jeff.. Thats yoru job. I am pointing out that this place becomes addictive and people spend too much time here sometimes.

If I am running a company and paying you, your not on a divorce website.... but thats me.

Do you remember how gaming impacted your marriage in the first place?

I don't care how much anyone posts on these boards, I could give a crap. What my point is which I knew would be overlooked by people who believe it is all about them is that when people, in particular old timers are here out of habit and because of the rush, it isnt helping anyone.

This site is about helping people, helping them either save their marriage or themselves, one or the other. Once that occurs many have a hard time letting go.

Lets take you Jeff since you feel like talking to me. What do you get out of this board now? How does it help you in your marriage today? Do you still need it? Your friends kill zombies with your outside the boards friends, great, thats what Facebook is for.

It is so simple to come on here and get admired for the time that we have been around. But, is it admirable? Who the fuckkk knows.

No MLC is the same, some of the syptoms are, some of the behaviors, but other then that it is not cookie cutter. The advice that is given by a guy or gal who has posted for 5 years looks extremely similar to a guy or gal who has posted for 1.

It is not about time, it is about education on the subject and understanding. Passion about helping people is not about staying on these boards 1000ships, the person passionate about that pursues their degree in psychology or psychiatry and opens a practice or volunteers at a center.

My point Jeff, and please stop taking this personally, is that I wanted to answer your question. You asked if old timers are sometimes not helping. My opinion is yes. My reasons have been stated.

I owe a ton to these boards, they saved me. I also respect them enough to know that in the eye of the storm the best practice is honesty. Some marriages can be saved, some can not. Some spouses suffer from MLC, some are just fuckktards. Spent all the time you want trying to figure out which one you
dealing with and I will tell you you just wasted a shittload of time.

Fix you, address your mistakes and behaviors that damaged your marriage. Then see what happens. If you didnt spoend enough time at home, spend more time at home.

If you had intimacy issues, see a shrink and deal with them.

If you were a shitty father, take some classes and learn to be a better parent.

If you spent all your time gaming instead of with your wife and kids, quit gaming.

It's just that fuckking simple folks. In order to save your marriage you have to save yourself first. Then, they may come back or they may tell you to piss off. Doesnt matter at that point because you have probably figured out what you want and most likely it aint them anymore.

So now, I leave you with this. If you really take a look at your spouses, yep I am talking to all of you who are sitting there wondering if I am... Do they deserve you? Can you be happy with them again? Are you fighting for something you truly believe can be great? Are you looking at your spouse or ex-spouse and thinking They make you sick and what the hell are you fighting for? These are the questions you need to answer honestly, not to us, to yourself and then walk the right line. Simple enough.....

Ian

Once again.

: )

I am having a hard time distancing the dikc poster and the real life guy who is awesome when we talk on the phone.

Ian, I got the point however. And thanks for it.

Look, one thing I've found in my journey of the last 4 years is that trying to apply your personal convictions about a matter to a wide swath of people is a prescription for trouble.

We're all unique. All in unique places, with unique histories full of unique experiences. All that we've been through has helped to shape us into who we are today, for good or bad.

Blanket statements are rarely accurate. In the end it will always be the case that a personal choice has to be made.

My particular marriage crisis is over and has been for the better part of three years. But my life is NOT over, and my life still has issues, some of them rather large and significant ones.

So maybe I'm done with db'ing right now. I still have a new marriage, a blended family at that, and a new life that I'm embarking on with a new person.

This sight helped me to save my life, and I'm not trying in any way to be melodramatic. If I had not found this sight back when all the shite was hitting the fan, I don't know how I would have made it through the days from hell. Just having other people to turn to made all the difference in the world on some days.

Now I don't need advice on how to deal with an MLC spouse anymore, but I would like to think that I can still come here, find a familiar face or two, and know that they care about the new issues in my life.

I don't get off on posting here as an "experienced" person. And posting on this board no longer consumes my days as it once did. But if my experiences can help make one persons day even a little bit easier, if sharing things that worked and didn't work for me maybe helps a confused person reach a decision....well, I think that's a wonderful thing.

Retired Presidents are still consulted on critical issues. Retired CEO's are still asked for their advice on business matters. Old teachers are still used to provide direction for the new group of teachers.

What the hell else is experience for if not to use it for the good of others?

I say, if you don't want to post, don't post.

I also say, if you don't want to post, don't piss on the parade of those who still like to think there is value in their posting.

Be who you are.

You can't be anyone else anyway.

Blessings,

Bill

Ok so after being attacked the other day I had sworn off the thought of ever posting here again, but after all that has been written here I want to have my say.

I was on these boards for a longtime (under a different name)until my divorce. I remember HB. She was leaving as I showed up. Say what you will but what I do remember about her was that she was always kind and patient. It saddens me to see this board and some of the "oldtimers" on it fighting for somekind of pecking ordet. Ian is so right. This board was and can be a lifesaver, but carrying on like this serves no good.

When I came on the other day and posted on BND's thread asking, "what purpose did making fun of her husband have to do with anything at this stage of the game", I knew that I was risking the wrath of BND. I had seen it directed many times to people who didn't agree with her way of thinking. As is her mo she came on and talked down to me as if I were an idiot with no sense of humor. As if this wasn't enough, I was also reemed by many of her "friends" all for not finding her charming and funny. I thought her marriage was now going well, but I also know that happy people, truly happy people, don't need to knock others down to make themselves feel superior. We can always fool others but we have to live with the truth, so it doesn't matter why I think she posted that or why she is threatened by HB. She knows the truth and why posting that felt good to her.

People have lots of reasons for resurfacing. I myself have been through the whole deal and have come out the otherside. Life is good, social life and worklife are great, I had truly moved on. Suddenly my ex decides to awakens from whatever and have an epiphany. Truly I never thought this would happen. After much soul searching I know in my heart that I don't want him back. I feel that I've done a lot of growing and soul searching. In short, I am a far different person then I was when he left. I came back here to remind myself all that I had gone through to make a life and to get back to my "Happy" place.

Ian made so many good points. Some people need the attention and adoration that newby's so willing give for some insight that can help. We all know how desperate we are for any help when we first land here. I really question the motives of posters who are back together with their spouse but still have a need to be here. WHY? Shouldn't their energy be going into the relationship and rebuilding of their marriage? At least HB has admitted that she has some new issues, so why the attacks? Could it be that some of us feel as if she's stealing the thunder?

Oh and sorry J3B, your answer to Ian's questions are just plain lame.

dsm

Originally Posted By: sofaraway

It is not about time, it is about education on the subject and understanding. Passion about helping people is not about staying on these boards 1000ships, the person passionate about that pursues their degree in psychology or psychiatry

Those are not the only fields. I don�t hang out here anymore either, but I do have a passion regarding MLC and helping LBSs.

Originally Posted By: sofaraway

It's just that fuckking simple folks. In order to save your marriage you have to save yourself first.

And that is the kernel.

It is often true that OldTimers' advice matches advice given of those only a year in�but each person receives fulfillment in different ways. You are right that sometimes it feels good to be admired and that can be taken too far when it comes to people seeking out board �gurus.� It can also be an addiction�didn�t Lissie say it�s like crack?

Originally Posted By: dncrm

I really question the motives of posters who are back together with their spouse but still have a need to be here. WHY? Shouldn't their energy be going into the relationship and rebuilding of their marriage?

Many people do. Many people put out their idea of �shoulds� onto others.
There are many reasons to return or keep coming. Jack said it is to remind him what not to do�? Was that it?
I think it�s likely more than that.

It does feel good to help others. I once gave that as a reason and was told by a then OldTimer that I was selfish because of that reason and he said that he only returned out of the goodness of his meaning well heart.

It feels good to give back and to share.

It hurts to watch others hurting and maybe it alleviates some of our own hurt if we feel we can offer a balm.

A poster may have found a passion�an interest in studying MLC, or Infidelity for that board, or sex-starved marriages� Maybe they haven�t gotten a degree out of it yet; maybe circumstances do not make that route conducive. I studied MLC and was criticized for it in my first year or two, but to me it is interesting from an academic standpoint. I give thanks for this board as well as for my husband�s midlife crisis�without those I would not be where I am today or headed where I am going.

Hey Jack -

I was reading this about what the Anchorage bar scene was like when I first visited...

http://www.adn.com/2007/05/30/158697/soaked-in-history.html

That is how I remember my night on the town in Anchorage in 1980. It probably is best that the town got cleaned up.

When are you going to make a trip south to your neighbor state of Hawaii?

DNCRM,

I am begining to feel as though I am beating a dead horse, but here we go.....again.

I feel very insulted that you feel the way you do about me and what you posted about my character. I honestly do not know who you are under your new name. And should you want to reveal who you used to post as maybe it will trigger a memory. I don't recall that my thread attacked anyone here personally, and I am not sure why you feel that you need to try and tear me down.

I still find many of the things that the MLC'er does to be humorous because it really is such a ridiculous mental illness.

There is no logic in it, it just happens. Nobody knows when the MLC monster will raise it's ugly head after laying dormant for so many years.

And if I were to dwell on all of the ugliness and keep sharing the details of all of my Husband's antics and his cruelty, how would this benefit me or anyone else.It would scare people away and perhaps not encourage them to stand for their Marriages.

I don't feel as though I need to swap war stories or show my scars all of the time. I have made no secret that piecing was full of many ups and downs. I have made no secret of the things I would have done differently when he first came home.

I have no wrath to dispense to anyone, especially here. I have already explained to you my reasons for my thread and truly I am sorry if you feel that I belittled you with my answer.

I hardly ever post here anymore if you may have noticed, mainly because this place makes me very sad. To read the threads of so many who are only begining their journey and knowing what lies ahead brings me to tears.

I pop in occasionally to check up on certain posters that I pray for regularly. I try not to dispense any advice unless I can truly offer some type of solution or lend an ear. I don't need to post here for any type of adoration or a boost to my ego, so please don't make any more assumptions about me in a public forum especially since you don't know me.

You can find me on FB if you wish to have a grown up discussion and hash out your feelings.

Originally Posted By: Bworl

So maybe I'm done with db'ing right now.

I don't think you're ever done db'ing.

Originally Posted By: Bworl

I still have a new marriage, a blended family at that, and a new life that I'm embarking on with a new person.

And that's why.

Originally Posted By: Bworl

This sight helped me to save my life, and I'm not trying in any way to be melodramatic. If I had not found this sight back when all the shite was hitting the fan, I don't know how I would have made it through the days from hell. Just having other people to turn to made all the difference in the world on some days.

Ditto.

Originally Posted By: Bworl

But if my experiences can help make one persons day even a little bit easier, if sharing things that worked and didn't work for me maybe helps a confused person reach a decision....well, I think that's a wonderful thing.

Amen.

You once again have missed my point. Maybe you don't post as often as you once did, so why would you come here and post what you did? It's ok if your husband makes jokes to you about things he may have done. He's either feeling guilty or emabrassed and that's just his way of dealing. Lots of people use humor when they feel these emotions because they don't know how else to project what they feel. There is however a difference between the joke being between the 2 of you and your making him the butt of the joke to a group of strangers. How do you think he would handle it if he were to read what you had written at his expense?

Oh amd BND, you certainly do like to tell all of your old war stories. Everytime someone has the nerve to question your motives, you are right back to making sure everyone knows how awful it was for you. Your story isn't anymore painful then anyone else's? Besides, YOU have your husband back. Many of us here have had to totally rebuild our lives and done it successfully. I guess that's why I appreciated the thoughtful posts written by Ian and Figgeroni.

No BND I would never look you up on facebook. WHY? You remind me of the bully in the class and we all know the real reasons behind why people bully. I had to laugh as you got in your dig about having an "adult conversation". There again, because I don't agree with you, or the way you treat people, you turn it on me. No surprise there since I've seen it all before from you.

Don't worry. I won't be back to defend anything I've said here. I know by having the nerve to stand up to you you will comeback at me, because that is your MO. Have you ever just given someone a simple "I'm sorry" from the heart or is it always more important for you to be right?

This board is a wonderful place and it should be a safe place. It was at onetime. People should never have to be afraid to post how they feel or about their pain for fear of being ridiculed.

Originally Posted By: dncrm

Maybe you don't post as often as you once did, so why would you come here and post what you did?

Still haven't found that ignore button yet eh?

Why are you so concerned with others and their reasons for coming back to post?

Why not just worry about yourself?

You claim to have been here a long time ago. I don't buy the fact that you can't remember your previous username, a bit little interesting I guess, but doesn't really matter anyway. I could care less.

Maybe I missing something? How is all this back and forth garbage helping others?

The one thing I'm not missing is the fact you seem to seek out conflict and drama.

It seems as though you troll around here searching for reasons to be offended.

Hell.... I can even remember you complaining about another poster using different colored and or bold font. C'mon seriously?

And for you to say J3B's answer is lame and not give a single reason as to why, tells me your doing nothing more than trying to push the drama button.

How's about finding that ignore user button instead if you are offened so easily? That wouldn't be much fun though would it?

Trapt,

First off, I never said that I forgot my my username, but if you must know I forgot my password. Passwords used to be given to posters. They were made up of a series of numbers and letters not of ones choosing.

I'm not surprised that you've responded as you have. Afterall you are the same poster that felt the need to curse at me for not agreeing with what was said. I don't nor have I ever sought people out in order to cause drama. If you recall, I backed off of my belief that BND's thread was mean because I saw where this was going.

Turning the tables on me and saying that I am somekind of troublemaker is really low and only proves my point. Why is it that when you and your cohorts gang up on other posters this become acceptable? I came to dance solo with only my opinions and for that I was cursed at and ridiculed.

By the way, the ignore button works both ways!

BRAINS! LIVE BRAINS!

ROFL!!

That didn't take long.

I wasn't upset by the thread offending you. I wasn't upset at all. If I allow you to upset or offend me then I guess that's on me. Right?

I was simply stating MY opinion about your comments or opinions for that matter as to why the thread was started.

There are no tables to turn, I was simply pointing out what I have noticed.

Why would I use the ignore button? I'm not the one taking offense to things all the time.

I'll listen to what you have to say, and we can agree to disagree. Not that big of deal to me.

Peace.

LOL!!

Quote:

didn�t Lissie say it�s like crack?

I received the cutest email that said, "mama you have been quoted", and I was like huh? .

and then when I came to see the word CRACK is involved siiigh...

More reasons for my parents to be proud.

and yes it was crack.... 4 years ago...

thanks for the shout out...

Have a great Thursday peeps I am sure the sun is shining somewhere.....

awww mama...look at you spreading sunshine!!!

siiiiiiiiiiiigh

I came back looking for the drama because it is like a drug

and

voila

got my fix

I say we throw you all in a ring and let you duke it out

why can't this thread just get back to the original question
and
people can offer their opinions
we can take it or leave it

the bitchy troublemakers (and you all know who you are...no names need to be given) just need to chill the hellsbells out
stop your petty back and forth
and let everyone get back to the business of growing

if you can't grow
don't be a weed and strangle out the ones who are

back off
start a blog
invite your other nongrowing friends to post on it
start a talk show
or a sitcom

who cares

help if you want to help
shut up if you want to hurt

no one has anything to prove if they are doing the work...the work proves itself

(love you mami)

And folks we're back live, at the Pissing for Distance 400, brought to you exclusively by Peter Peckerwecker's Pan Pizza Palace!

Folks, this race has changed lead so many times, it's hard to predict a winner, perhaps a photo finish! They'll be beating and banging coming out of turn 4 when the checker flag flies in the air and it's checkers or wreckers for these guys and gals!!!

I can hardly wait!

dday101798 out [screening the crowded stands for a beer vendor]

Cliques.

Circles.

Attacks.

Indignation.

Allies.

Amazing.

Sofaraway, Ian, is the only person around here that will use my first name on the board. I am pretty sure he does this with a purpose in mind. I think it is to put me in my place. For those of you who don�t know, I got home and phoned him and called him a �Big Richard, and then thanked him.� From there we talked about normal day life for each of us.

While I appreciate the defense. I do not need it, I am accountable only to myself and a few others people for my actions in the real world. And as far as I know�none of them post here. Acountable for my thoughts regarding LBSes and advice I post here that I am accountable to you for.

The defense of others is what quickly spirals things into hurt feelings and open flames.

1000 ships, Kerry, Liss and Drew, and Fig (right up until the troublemaker comment : ) )thanks for rising above. You know things are bad when Liss posts on my thread

...and I appreciate it.

Why do I continue to post here? In the future�I�ll refrain those reasons are mine.

Specifically,

HeartsBlessing.

I apologize for something that got way out of hand. Below is exactly what I posted and would like to highlight some things in it.

Quote:

What got my panties in a bunch, was reading that you didn't read anyone else advice before you posted. I do not believe you meant to be dismissive of others thoughts or words. And perhaps I shouldn't have felt that way...we are unable to contact each other outside the board to clear air. That got to me a bit.

I think that might have started it all.

For the most part, I try very hard, very hard not to assume what people are thinking or doing�however, I can tell them how it seemed to me. Outside of the boards here I would have said the same thing, the reaction might have been different. It is hard to read intent in text.

My intention..hahah�intention�always a bad thing. (good intentions = bad outcomes�not making fun of anyone) was to let you know how I was feeling about reading that. Like it or not, you are a giant here. While you are respected and knowledgeable, you still have to be careful who you crush with your feet.

Things are or were different around here now�and many of us �old timers� who are not so old any more and your approach� I know that I am not used to it. I think it is safe to say, neither are many others who view themselves as �helping� around here.

So HB, if you are reading this.

I am sorry for not choosing my words better in coming across clearer. I did not in any way shape or form, intend to attack or hurt you.

As for the flame comment, that was across the board to anyone and everyone.

Just for the record and back to the topic of this forum. MLC is an excuse for bad behavior. Those that are "supposedly" going thru it made a choice. A choice that we had nothing to do with and a choice that we, ourselves, could've made when the going got tough. Bottom line, the "supposed" MLCers are not nice people and we should feel lucky that we found it out before we wasted anymore time with them. Onward and upward, people. Love is easy to find. Nice people, not so much.

Oh boy....

My... you've waited an awful long time to post.

I amazed as I read this thread....

I do believe that it has shown how some of us got here...

Maybe it's time for us "old timers" to actually SHOW the newer people how take a step forward, out of this mud pit....

Leslie...

You should really research the MLC topic a bit more. It is not that cut and dry, unless you're looking for a reason to get out of a marriage.

You know what they say...cant make rate, go boatswain's mate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aunMF8gGi0

You know what is sad - the USCG Quartermaster rating I had (combo of Navy Signalman/Quartermaster) was merged into Boatswain's mate in 2003. The art of signaling is pretty much all but lost from the USCG. And the only USCG medal of honor recipient was a Signalman named Douglas Munro.

shite...I knew that troublemaker comment would get me!!!

(I was just trying to be all inclusive)

maybe I just miss being bit in the assets!!! I dont' need to pirate the internet with crawling ants anymore

so the original question again was posed as to how maybe the old timers can help instead of hurt the newbies...and what might be going on when you 1st find yourself here, yes? I forgot though, it was so long ago

MLC or WAS...hmmmmmmm
to me, anyway, it doesn't really matter so much
I thought AJ was in MLC but it turns out he was just a sociopath

but
I handled it the way I handled it because it was ME I was most trying to save
little old me
if it saved my marriage I would have been glad (well that was before I found out about the diagnosis)
in the end it saved me

it actually made me

i grew

past where I had dreamt myself before

into a realm that only touched the imagined world I knew how to dream (without sounding wishy washy)

I have a better, richer, fuller, more compelling and satisfying life than I knew possible.
I feel joy and peace and have a deeper faith, savor life with greater abandon and eagerly ask for more more more

DBing taught me
about me
my depth
my tallness
my soul

taught me to
grab with both hands
laugh with greater adandon
sleep sweeter

grow
learn
save yourself

in the end that is what matters

As a newbie, I appreciate all that everyone can offer me by way of guidance, whether it be by 2x4 or encouragement (and the silence when I'm fixating on H speaks volumes to me... LOL). I seriously felt more lost than what my H must be feeling now when I first came here. And this site quickly pointed me in the right direction of what to do for ME in all this MLC mess...

For that, whatever the outcome of my R with H, I will be eternally grateful. Because I've come to realize that time without ME completely in tune with myself, is time I don't want to waste any more.

Wow. I missed a lot today.

Anyhoo, one day until spring break.

At school today I had.

one new kid who ran away this morning before I got here (they're 10) Yes I found him!

one crying b/c her mom and dad split up, mom is angry and made her sleep on the floor last night

one throwing down "poppers" going to the bus and causing a near riot

two different busses with brawls on them at the end of the day

one unmedicated schizophrenic (so they say),

one who left early to go to his mandatory anger management counseling (I don't even wanna know why that was mandated before he got to me)

one clique of "mean girls" telling another that they weren't her friend anymore because she's friends with another girl who "stinks"
...
and a partridge in a pear tree!!!!!

Come on spring break.

I am ready for ya!

I vote to shoot the pear stealing partridge.

I'm thinking after today I may need to go to work tomorrow in camo and riot gear.... and doesn't sound like a bad idea Kerry. I prefer pink camo though to green.

I love public school

at least all my thugs form bonds with me so they protect me from the rival thugs

SoCo--I think we work at the same school!!

I had thought we had all grown and matured and graduated from High School years ago.

I thought we had all received enough drama from our WAS when they dropped the bomb.

I thought this place was some type of sanctuary not a place to attack fellow posters and their character.

The cliques, the gossip and the drama doesn't fit into my life anymore. The distraction was great when my Husband was gone but I can't do this anymore.

It really saddens me that this thread has gotten out of control and so ugly.

For what it's worth my Husband does read my posts here and as an outsider looking in wanted to know how this thread was actually helping anyone here.

Just saying'

I don't really think it is at this point. That's why I'm just inserting random chit chat nonsense. I hate to see such ugliness in a place that has helped me so much.

Hey fig! That is too funny, and so true. My anger management kid loves me to death and he's one of the worst in the school, so at least that helps me out a little. Maybe my tires won't get slashed this year. Yep, elementary school and teacher's tires get slashed. Gotta love it.

Actually, I DO love it. Does that make me crazy?

I am reading a book called "Male Menopause" by Jed Diamond. Now maybe everyone on this thread has already read the book so if that is so I apologize. The book was recommended by Snodderly and in the list on the resources.

Now bear with me because I am only on page 60 so far of this book but it really speaks to me and I think everyone else here. I don't know how this guy wrote this book and knew he would be speaking directly to me. He must be MWD's brother. I can so relate to this book as what is happening to me right now in life. I didn't think I was going through male menopause but as he is writing this, and I am reading, he is proving me wrong.

Jed Diamond - "The primary purpose of Second Adulthood for men is to become elders - to stand for something, to have a vision for the second half of their lives, to be the kind of men young men would want to look up to and follow."

"When a man denies this period of his life or is unable to negotiate the transition effectively, he never really grows up. He remains a perpetual adolescent, a flying boy, a Peter Pan."

He also says here that mentoring is an important part of this process that men join men's groups and learn to impart their knowledge to young men is important.

My thoughts on this is that in today's society where the internet is so prevalent, I don't know if as many men's groups exist or are as appealing to our age group. This board serves that purpose. A group of people mentoring others in the transition of life. That was the purpose of this thread IMHO. How it got so out of hand, well I guess we don't agree on how to mentor, however the need to do it is very obvious.

I think as a group we can continue to discuss the "how to mentor" in the best possible way but I feel we should put to bed the idea that we need to mentor. Jack said it in his original post that even the newbies should go out and support other people with similar sichs.

Any body else care to comment?

yeah, SoCo--we DO work at the same school!!

and I love it too!

I think I work with your husband

Wow hoosier, I didn't know there was another place like mine! Or maybe you are here somewhere... and I don't know who you are!! LOL. IRMAC, who's husband do you work with? Not my ex, because he doesn't work. : ) Well, every once in a while he'll work a shift at his friend's bar for some cash I guess.

inner-city Indianapolis, actually. 542 kids, 98% below poverty level. I'm the school nurse--the one who hands out all the behavioral meds!

oh, I'm so sorry for you!

Ahhhh hoosier... Dallas... about 90% low ses... and I'm the one who tries to teach the kids when they run/out, don't take the behavioral meds!!! LOL. Or, I have about 5 who are just ED but don't have meds. But, everybody has got to pass TAKS..

Fun times, fun times.

Oh, I'm about 3 and a half hours from spring break.

Do I get a badge for living in America's most unhappy city?...

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/02/0226_miserable_cities/2.htm

lol! we call it "EH" here, but it's the same thing. I have a ton of respect for you--you have a terribly difficult job. My daughter wants to be a special ed teacher....

not enough sunshine!

Well thanks Hoosier! I feel like I teach special ed but I teach gen ed 4th grade. Texas is all about including everyone in the gen ed room so we have very interesting classes.

Pilot,

I wasn't on the board very long, and I'm really not quite sure how it all came about, but Jed Diamond had just started doing his research for his book. Board rules were a lot loser then so I can't remember if he solicited on the board or if someone gave my e-mai address, but there were several of us who participated. He asked us a series of questions like when we saw a change in our spouse, how the changes started, and how it first started to manifest itself. It was a pretty intense and lengthy questionaire.

I still get e-mails from his site with updates. I find it pretty fascinating myself even though I am of the opposite sex.

If we happened to start the WAS Busta thing back up, I call dibs on the first stop........

)@(#*)@!($&!)#*)!(@

Sigh - back to regular programming.

Can't we all just get along

Originally Posted By: *KS*Chick*

Can't we all just get along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHlopjHepEw

LMAO thank you Kerry!

I vote yes. If we can't, then maybe after a couple of pina coladas.

Quote:

I am reading a book called "Male Menopause" by Jed Diamond. Now maybe everyone on this thread has already read the book so if that is so I apologize. The book was recommended by Snodderly and in the list on the resources.

Now bear with me because I am only on page 60 so far of this book but it really speaks to me and I think everyone else here. I don't know how this guy wrote this book and knew he would be speaking directly to me. He must be MWD's brother. I can so relate to this book as what is happening to me right now in life. I didn't think I was going through male menopause but as he is writing this, and I am reading, he is proving me wrong.

Jed Diamond - "The primary purpose of Second Adulthood for men is to become elders - to stand for something, to have a vision for the second half of their lives, to be the kind of men young men would want to look up to and follow."

"When a man denies this period of his life or is unable to negotiate the transition effectively, he never really grows up. He remains a perpetual adolescent, a flying boy, a Peter Pan."

He also says here that mentoring is an important part of this process that men join men's groups and learn to impart their knowledge to young men is important.

My thoughts on this is that in today's society where the internet is so prevalent, I don't know if as many men's groups exist or are as appealing to our age group. This board serves that purpose. A group of people mentoring others in the transition of life. That was the purpose of this thread IMHO. How it got so out of hand, well I guess we don't agree on how to mentor, however the need to do it is very obvious.

I think as a group we can continue to discuss the "how to mentor" in the best possible way but I feel we should put to bed the idea that we need to mentor. Jack said it in his original post that even the newbies should go out and support other people with similar sichs.

Any body else care to comment?

1 comment. Thanks dncrm

OP - I don't know where I would be without this place and the mentors that are here. I'm glad this place exists----for different reasons now than when I first came here. I came here desperate to save my M. When I first came here I didn't think I could live without my H---I didn't want to live with out my M intact. I now know that isn't true. I have read many stories----successes at different levels---and all of it helps. The support I have received here is support I could get no where else. Advice given by those that have been in this position means so much more----it has so much more impact. I am probably the slowest one here to get what this is all about, but I am finally getting it. I have given support to others, and can only hope that when I successfully come out of my tunnel----that I can be helpful to others.

Make no mistake about it TCBTE, by being here YOU are a help to others. We all learn from each others experiences and mistakes. We all count on each other for support.

If people learn from MY mistakes-----there should be a lot of smart people out there

Ditto

LOL. We could ALL say that.