Hey everyone, thread locked, so here it is
finished with ow!!BND.. you misunderstood me, I was joking, I wasnt telling you to not post at all, just I didnt need harsh words. I am ok, I dont exepct him to go any faster, this is the pace we should be going out. Jody DB coach said an interesting thing, that he WAS ends up doing good DBing when they want back.. take it slow, work on getting to know you again, build a friendship, too soon for romance etc.. all without ever reading the books!
So she said to match him and also to flirt with him too ! I need lessons in flirting...
Hi Dawn!.. yes, thats true, he has issues of his own still to work on. I talked to Jody also about that, she said he is clinically depressed still and skittish emotionally and I have to not overwhelm him, or allow him to overwhelm himself. I dont think I am a rebound as such though, as he never loved Helen! Thank goodness.
Hey T! Thanks for the reminder! Jody said we arent ready for romance even, that we are STILL in friendship mode! So I had to email him about our perspective tenants today and made it light and chatty.. he responded in kind and signed it "me". I need to speak to him about it, but I just dont want to phone him still !
I have a dilemma. He invited me to his house Saturday night to go out to the pub with MF (who I know too) but that would involve us all drinking and then me staying over.. Jody felt I either shouldnt go at all, or shouldnt stay. But, I know one of hte reasons he left was because I refused so many invites for us to go out socialising together and would tell him to go by himself.. so I think it would be counterproductive to NOT go. She said I should not do too much on his terms yet, but make him work for me a little.. come over to my village one night instead. I dont know...
First on your last thread in MLC forum... LOL!!!
I kind of agree with Jody but you know him better than all of us. Just keep it light and fun...
xxxx
K
Hi Ali,
If I've learned anything it's that each situation is unique, but also that Jody usually has a point. So, could you do this halfway and accept the invitation but not stay over? Maybe you're too busy with school etc.? In this way you get to show him the fun-loving Ali, while still demonstrating the fact that you have your own life now, and he needs to show you why he should be a bigger part of it?
You also have the choice in terms of how much you drink. If this loosens your tongue too much could you hold back on this occasion(can't be hungover for schoolwork etc.)? This might also give you a bit of insight as your "ex" is likely to reveal more than you are if he's been drinking a lot and you haven't...
I'd say go with your gut instinct on this one, as long as you are sure that whatever situation you are in you can act cool and calm.
-ITH
Great you made the call Ali to Jody
but
Jody felt I either shouldnt go at all, or shouldnt stay. But,
....
in all honesty Ali ask yourself could you go and not drink and return to your home at the end of the evening.
I am assuming the Not going isn't an option you are considering.
You have to remember this is going to be a new relationship so maybe all the "buts" can be put in the past at least for now.
Some great professional advice
take it slow
build a friendship
not overwhelm him
we arent ready for romance even,
not do too much on his terms
make him work for me a little..
Are you on track with college work, can you really afford half a week end off at this stage.
You know best so good luck.
Now don't throw stuff at me but I think you should go. Don't drink at all or maybe only one. Keep it light and fun and then come back home. Let's think about it: If this was someone new, you wouldn't be spending the night right away and this is and has to be looked as a new R. You want it better than last time right? Otherwise you could end up right back in the mess you have been working so hard to get out of.
Be patient dear Ali. He wants you too. Let's not rush.
hugs, kat
Hi there Ali...
Lets get down to practicals...do you have a car? How far way is he? Could you get a taxi back to yours?
IMO you should take this really really really slowly..."Slow Ali catchie Ex!"
How about going for half the evening and then bailing...? Or alternatively, showing up half way?
Ali - don't forget all the massive massive ground you've gained for yourself! Don't give that up!
That's one of the reasons he's thought again!
Best s x
"I need lessons in flirting..."
Ali, FWIW - I don't think you need any lessons! LOL!!!
"not overwhelm him
we arent ready for romance even,
not do too much on his terms
make him work for me a little.. "
I think this is the way to go ....IMO...
Best - S x
Thankyou everyone..Hey GFI! no, its too far for a taxi and he DID invite me, so he wants me there.. and I wont have seen him all week, so I dont think its too much to go?
I'm more worried about the phonecall we just had. Problem is, there is no communication. He sounded shut down and distant and even said he was tired and irritable (but my BFF says to remember he has depressoin and is struggling and wants to go back on ADs).. he had football but got the time wrong so made everyone turn up too early and felt bad for messing up, as he said and looking a fool and annoying everyone. I tried to validate and say I can see he would feel bad. He asked about college but wasnt really listening to the answer and after 10 minutes of chat, said he wanted to go and then said, oh well, I guess I will talk to you tommorow..or something. He just sounded like a man cornered.
Jody suggested I tell him, you said you wanted to take this slow, absolutely, I think thats right and I am ok with that. BFF said to say ask him how he wants to work this, is he comfortable with having space in the week and perhaps we can do things on the weekend, but he doesnt have to feel like he should phone me every night. Trouble is, we havent and dont talk on this level (and never on the phone).. so she said, try saying some of these things as soon as you can.. when you next see him. Both she, and Jody said, its about setting healthy boundaries for hte new R that we are both comfortable with.
After hearing the tone in his voice, he isnt sounding at all comfortable. BFF was saying we have been friends then lovers then this tremendous split tore us apart and now we need to put the trust back and that will take time.. and I said, I know it does, as it did after my EA and I know it takes lots of TALKING and reassurance. And then I realised, he has given me none and doesnt look like he intends to. He hasnt even said he wants me back.
Ali, agree with what seems to be the majority. Go, but don't let it turn into a sleep over. If you are still working on your projects, you have a perfect excuse for not overindulging, and going home for the night. You need to get up early the next day!
(((((Ali)))))
Thats really upset me.. it sounded like last August, when he was gave me the brush off, before dating her. He just sounded awkward and disinterested and sort of detached.. cold? This is NOT how I imagined it would be if we ever got back together. I thought he would be sweet, interested, want to talk, to see me.. (unrealistic I know). I am sick of DBing, why cant I just be honest with him? (nope, not allowed hey).
This is very very hard. I had him in the palm of my hand Friday, now he sounds like a 10 minute phone call is a chore. I guess he is still depressed and he feels inadequate anyway without messing up with friends.
So Cyrena, if you are still reading, did your H give you the cold treatment when he first came back??
Its very hard to reamain confident and chirpy when he is being this confusing. Its making me nervous.
I feel like I need to let him know that he doesnt have to call me if he is tired and thats ok. I dont want him to feel pressurised or that things are moving too fast or as Jody said, he will leave again.
Ali, he's not back! He's feeling his way. It isn't like a light switch for him.
Thats exactly what scares me Jeff.. he's not back yet...he just wanted to get me back whilst he gets ready/decides..because he didnt want to risk losing me in the meantime. Thats what Jody felt too, she said look at his actions. He said didnt he "I'm still feeling my way with this".
PS: Kat, if this was a new R, I would DEFINETLY be staying the night. I havent in 20 years just gone out then gone home.. we fell in love, I moved in. 3 times. I know that isnt going to happen this time though!
I used to read peoples threads in piecing and think, what the hell are they moaning about? If I ever got a 2nd chance I would just be so happy and grateful and would go for it. Ok, now I understand! This IS worse.
Ali, I think this is how it has to be. You are ready for a R with him. There's no way he can possibly be ready for the same kind of R with you. His still getting over Helen. He's porbably trying to figure out why he left you two years ago. Wondering if it would happen again. Not wanting to hurt either one of you again. Let him go slow, encourage him to go slow. Once he sees that you are there, and are not going to run and hide, he will realize that he can get comfortatble with himself before he launches into a full R with you. I think it has to happen that way, to get a good result.
Ali, that's right...
IMO he's realised that...but now let him confirm that in his mind...he's got to realise that and work for it! Don't put it on a plate for him! Whatever you do don't "fold" too quickly !
Keep doing what you have been doing....reeeelaaaaaaaxxxxx...and get on with life...
S x
Simon is so smart...no folding!!
kat
Oh, I just read your response back about staying over. I am definitely not good European material. I dated a guy for 2 years and we never did"it", just fooled around. Didn't get around to doing the deed until I was 23 because I was holding out for marriage.
I guess what I was trying to get across was if this was a brand new guy, would you be staying over so quickly? And really I am trying to get past this American way of being Miss Goody-two-shoes.
kat
Ali, Even thought I'm not in your situation, I can understand what you're saying. When things are dark, you don't have all the emotional turmoil.
Kat, [quote]I guess what I was trying to get across was if this was a brand new guy, would you be staying over so quickly? And really I am trying to get past this American way of being Miss Goody-two-shoes.
[/quote)
I am not sure this is the European way, more a personal thing.I know lots of youngsters who are as you say Goody two shoes,I call it self respect.
Ali, I think the big thing here is you expected x/bf to finish with H and then come back and you would be together again-like before with a few minor problems.
You offered yourself up on a plate and he took it, but no way has he said you two are now a couple.
You have to stop thinking of him as b/f or as you as a couple. This will help you have no expectations.
Hi Ali,
I just have to jump in again as when I read through your posts your self-doubt and frustration jumps out, completely understandable. I've been there and in some ways still am, but instead of just saying "no expectations" because I know in reality that is easier (for most of us anyway) said than done, can you focus on the end goal instead? Can your expectations-or maybe a better way to put it would be aspirations-be around having a healthy long-term committed R in the future? You can still be devoted to him, don't need to date other men etc., but can you think about your own actions and words rather than his and how they are going to help you achieve your goal? Clearly your ex is still "into you". It's not as though he's blowing you off. He just still blows hot and cold. Ali-this is SO "normal". Well none of these guys are "normal", but you know what I mean-"typical", "expected". You've mentioned a lack of connection in communication. I'm still dealing with this and we've been back together for 7 months. It takes a LONG time before the guilt, anger, whatever those residual unpleasant feelings are, can be eliminated from daily interactions. When these conversations happen by phone, I think you have a fantastic opportunity. Your ex won't see your face and body language, so even if you are struggling to sound upbeat-you can do it! I am quite sure that if you show him that you are comfortable with his pace, he will relax a bit.
Of course Jody's the expert, but I do wonder whether any R talk should happen at all at this point? It feels to me like every time this topic comes up things get more awkward and the topic could feel like pressure. I guess Jody just wants to be sure your ex is aware that you are comfortable going at his pace. I would say don't force this topic though, as it might be nicer just to have a fun evening together where none of the drama comes up. Maybe Jody sees it differently though?
ITH
So she said to match him and also to flirt with him too ! I need lessons in flirting...
Hey Al!
I have no idea about how to behave with BF (and everyone else is giving you such great advice), but flirting.... there's a subject I know a bit about!
Are you doing any flirting with BF at all at the moment? I probably wouldn't launch into a major flirtation but start very slowly with the occassional saucy look at him. Maybe let him catch you looking at him while you're thinking about his delicious Willy Wonka (so you have a dirty look on your face). Then as soon as he catches you look away quickly, then look back at him, directly into his eyes and smile, and look away again.
L. xx
Ali,
See my thread in piecing starting with yesteredays post about what can happen if they don't sort it out before the reconcillationn.. you need to listen with your ears not your heart ... you have waited so long for this.... now it's here....
Thanks everyone, I am sorry for not replying, I am so busy.. but I REALLY appreciate all your words and I will reread later. Sandy, what post, what do they need to sort out?
Today I had an accident at college. The technician propped alot of 18mm 8'x4' sheets against the rack (not in it) .. I was bending forwards on the floor working and they all fell on my back and knocked me over. It was very shocking and painful as they weighed alot so they had to call an ambulance. I was shaking for an hour and I am still in pain, but nothing broken. It upset me, I wanted to call my ex and get some love and comfort, but of course I couldnt. I didnt feel as though I could. I had paramedics with me for an hour (not my idea, health and safety).. this is the fourth time in recent years people have called ambulances for me and the illness/vunerability thing I am sure was the reason he left. So I dont even know if I will tell him.
He didnt email me today. My projects are not going well (couldnt do any work for 3 hours). I feel a bit low and tearful and alone.
Oh Ali, I am so sorry you poor thing, I guess you may feel worst tomorrow, get taking the arnica tablets, they are brilliant.
I can sympathise with the wanting the x to comfort you, shortly after my D I had a car accident, nothing major but my first instinct was to call my x.
I am not sure your x left just because of the illness's and if he did well-harumph!
You can't class an acident as illness tho,so stop those silly thoughts, you are just overwhelmed. Your x couldn't have picked a worst time to finish with H and start messing you about.
For your own sanity and well being not to mention your future earning potential that a degree will get you, try try try to just put him on the back burner for now, the less contact the better -it's just 2 tiny weeks Ali.
Your mind is not fully on your work -how could it be but this leaves you vunerable to accidents and mishaps so do take care.
Try some warm baths and soothing music.
Ali, I felt as though, up to the point H decided to "work on the marriage," I knew exactly what game I was playing (save our marriage and/or learn to love myself), I knew the rules and was becoming a skilled player (thanks, DB!), and I felt energized and alive, because I knew I was living more intensely and with more awareness than I had for the past few years. Finally, after agonizing months the goalposts were in sight ... and bam, welcoming to Piecing ... someone had moved the goalposts, the rules had all changed, the guy that was supposed to be on my team was playing Dr Jeckyl/Mr Hyde, and I was awash in pain with no sense of what to do next.
So, yes, I know exactly where you are now. In my last post I tried to pre-warn you about this, but I totally understand that it's impossible to believe that your MLCer is going to play the script out to the end. I also read the information, and thought mine would be home sooner, over with the OW faster, back to his old self less painfully, etc. Nope!
If it's any consolation, I think they have to take all the steps they do in order to come back to us. So, in a twisted way, you don't want him to skip the stage he's in, horrible though it is to be in (for you). Remember, he's just got to the point where he's finally stopped running away (from his father's death, from self-loathing thoughts about whatever his mother has done to him, from his fear of death/aging/never having a hot young girlfriend again). However, he hasn't dealt with any of it yet. And he's still not thinking like a mature grown-up man: he's still the victimized, entitled teenager much of the time. That's why he still needs the alcohol: to cope with the pain he's in.
Of course, you want to take away his pain--but unfortunately, he needs to feel it. He needs to come to terms with his past and accept himself, he needs to mourn that Helen is no longer filling some need he had (because she wasn't NOTHING to him--she was an idealization), and he needs to deal with all the guilt he's going to feel about what he did to you. He needs, really, to grow up, and that's the most painful thing a person can do -- but nobody can do it for him.
When my H came back, he was cycling like crazy, from extremely loving to miserable and withdrawn. And that went on for months. I used to have to escape into the laundryroom/garden regularly, so I'd advise that you don't move in together until he's a lot more stable. He needs space to process things alone. For me, the most helpful concept during this time was David Snarch's description of holding onto oneself--of not allowing myself to be affected too much by his changing state of mind.
After about 9 months, my H had shaken off the worst of his depression, and after 18 months, "we" were in a really good place. But it took H that long to work through all his issues. He has even learned to talk about the things instead of shutting down or stuffing his feelings!! It was only after about a year that he talked to me about a lot of his MLC, and it was impressive how he'd really worked through so much of his baggage, and come to a mature understanding of it. There were times, before that, when I tried to have relationship talks with him, and DIDN'T hear what I wanted to--so try not to push things too fast.
My suggestion for right now is ... don't torture yourself with thoughts that he's free to choose someone else, or needs to commit to you quickly, or that you might push him away, etc. Think of him as a guy who has been totally mangled in a horrible accident. The doctors have finally taken him off life-support because he can breathe on his own. But now he's got to assess all the damage that's been done, he's got to learn to cope with the pain, he's got to figure out how to walk & eat again, and must focus on getting well so he can lead a normal life again. Would you dash into his hospital room and insist that getting your relationship back on track needs to be his first priority ... or would you go about your life, giving him as much support as he needed (yet letting him determine the pace of his recovery) while being delighted for him that he's been given a second chance at living?
I love the descriptions of your art projects--keep up the wonderful work!
Oh Ali, I am sorry to hear about the accident. I know you are under a lot of pressure right now. Can one of your friends come and help with your vision since you are hurt? I would be right over if I lived there. Get some rest, I am sure you will be sore tomorrow. Lots of hugs.
kat
Jeff.. I think you are absolutely right, except.. I believe he is done with Helen. He really does have integrity and he wouldnt have moved back toward me if he had feelings for her, or they were in much contact still (I doubt it)? Hopefully she will move on quick with a new man! And yes, slower = better results !!
Simon - where have you been!? I am luckily, as busy as a man with 6 heads and he loves to hear about my art (was also SUPER supportive and thinks I am the best in the class!!), so I appear to be cool and getting on with my life, when in reality, I miss him dreadfully and want to shower him with kisses!
Kat.. I didnt sleep with anyone until I fell in love (with the Piscean!) at 19, so I have strong morals too! Just not to do with M, but that was my upbringing. I think I will stay over Saturday night I have decided, it will be lovely to have another snuggle Sunday morning, but I am NOT ML to him yet, no way. He also said he was scared and wanted it to be special (phew!). THanks for offering to come look after me, yes, it does hurt !!
Naej, the accident really wasnt my fault, the technician shouldnt have left the wood there and it would have been much worse if I hadnt lent forwards just as it fell.. it would've landed on my head otherwise !!
Hey ITH...Wow, you still dealing with the hot/cold after 6 months !? Blimey! Thanks for saying this is normal ! I agree you cant just have no expectations, but its good to not take it personally. I think you are right, I wont take all of Jody's advice and avoid an R talk at this time! Let him start it if he feels he wants one.
Hey Lisa.. ahh I thought of you when I said that, so thankyou!! Yes, is that the 'Princess Diana' technique!?? Look up under lashes, smile provocatively then look away again !?
Cyrena.. thank you SO much, once again. Your posts are a beacon of clarity in a confusing world. I like the reassurance you give me (like ITH) that this is 'normal'. THat is also a good point that he NEEDS to go through all of these stages. Yes, he didnt leave me becuase I got ill alot, he left me for all the reasons you stated and those made him unable to cope with my illness/vunerability. He was v depressed. You made me snap out of thinking he might go again, or meet someone new.. in fact, it took alot to come back to me, so he must have REALLY thought about it. We just have a long road ahead of us, as you say. Please stick with me on this journey !!
So.. I was in the workshop till 8 (posted pics of my sculptures I am making on FB!) and although I knew he would call me, I went to the shops, got in even later and he'd left a message, sounding sweet, asking me to call. So.. I didnt! I rang my Mum instead, then made food and ate and waited and...lo and behold, he called again!!! My god. We had a lovely chat, seriously. After ages (1/2 hour?) I told him about the accident in a jokey, OMG way.. and he was VERY concerned. I played it down and didnt mention the ambulance but said, yes, I am very sore, but I am fine. He was worried and told me to go have a bath (actually I am in pain!!)
Then.. he asked if he could do anything to help and offered to go fetch my paper for me from the supplier (near to his work)! Thats a massive help as I am so busy and I didnt ask, he offered. YAY!
He is up and down and I am trying not to be up and down in response to him, as you all tell me not to be, but I am chuffed! he was very sweet and 'with' me in that call. I was chatty and upbeat too...
(((((Ali)))))
I think he is done with Helen. I just don't think he is ready to move on to anything else. He thinks he should be, but he has to resolve things inside himself first.
I hope you are feeling better! Sounds like a less than ideal way to spend the day.... unless you fancied the paramedics!
No.. he wasnt very dishy, but very sweet! God my back hurts though. They got me to fill in an accident form, I have half a mind to sue them!! I agree Jeff, he is done with Helen, but still needs processing time.
Wow, but to leave me a message to call him, but then to try me again, he must have REALLY wanted to talk to me. You've all been following my thread, what a turnaround hey? Who'd have thought it, when I was bleakly posting that I just wanted to see him to say goodbye, after not seeing him for a few months.
I really do think the wider circle of joint friends have played a crucial role in this reconciliation.
Ali,
First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your back, love. Ouch! If they are at fault, maybe you could at least get your tuition paid or something...
As for BF, you said:
I
am sick of DBing, why cant I just be honest with him?
...and his recent reaction, as well as what you've reported from Jody, tell it all.
First of all, you aren't being dishonest, but you are just not pursuing him. If you go after him, he runs. So, unfortunately, you have to be mysterious and not always ready to go when he's ready for you.
It seems like a game and I guess it is in a sense, but he's not ready to have a relationship (already said several times), so you have to continue to do your thing w/out worrying about him.
You also said you were surprised that he left a message and then rang you later. Well, I'm not. I hope you can see why this happened.
You didn't pick up. He couldn't reach you. He didn't know what you were doing and he was curious. Your inactivity led him to think constantly about you. He became so consumed w/talking w/you that he couldn't wait and called you again.
You are triggering "attraction" in him. This is very important. He'll be attracted to the independent you and the mysterious, wonderful woman you are. Don't rush, but be patient.
Hang back and let HIM wriggle around a bit like you've been doing over the past year or so. It is his turn to wonder, want, and miss you.
If you were to "be honest w/him" he'd run and you'd be back to square one again. That is the OLD Ali and the old Ali doesn't live here any more.
Continue to do what you are doing, but now is not the time to let him know how much you miss him. That will come later and even when it does happen that you two reconnect, you'll still need to keep some of that mystery alive, so keep practicing it now, my dear.
RTL
See, men are like stamps, you spit on them and they get stuck... Ha ha, LOL!!
I am so sorry about your back, you didnt need that now, that's for sure!!! I hope you woke up feeling a bit better today, I havent checked on FB, need to post pictures of my things also. I will this weekend...
xxxx
K
I almost never initiate any contact with my H anymore, and guess what? He now calls me at least 2-3 times a day.
The back thing is worrisome-- I hope there are no lasting effects. I hope you are treating it very gently. A lady I work with just injured hers, and the doc put her on 10 days bed rest. Take care.
Hey Rob.. yes, perhaps thats it then.. I finally made him DO something by making him curious about me! I just knew it was the right thing to do to not ring back (someone said to not be so available ALL the time, K was that you? Jody too). Andabelle, seems you are STILL doing that ?? Wow, well I will keep it up then!
Like today. Last night he asked me to email him, then said, or just phone me at work (wow, would have been the first time I had done so since Sep 2007!) but I did neither.. so sure enough, he emailed me at 5 to say he hoped my back was ok and he was out in an area of bad reception tonight so probably wouldnt call, but would tommorow.. AND.. he put a KISS on the end !! My third since he left me. First on the reply when I emailed to say I knew about Helen, 2nd on his NYEve text reply and now today. I was really excited!
Thanks K...my back is very bad! Andabelle.. take it easy?? Ha, today I had to use an orbital sander, belt sander, hammer, bansaw, hand saw, drills, lifted wood that is a metre long and 1/2 inch thick, moved tables, carried loads to my car, lifted boxes on and off workbenches and bent metal by hand in a mangle...
I feel like sh*t!! My sculptures are coming together but I was in the workshop for 10 hours...and at one point I was in so much pain, my friend marched me to A&E (no waiting time, phew)!! Its just muscular and soft tissue damage though they think. they said I SHOULD go home, but I was ok to carry on if I had to...
See, Princess! The fruits of your labor are starting to ripen.
You don't hate DBing, b/c you can now see why you need to do it. It is more about creating attraction at this point, so keep it up.
Too much contact initiated by you will make you out to be needy - which is NOT sexy or attractive at all.
So, what have you done instead? Resisted temptation and trusted the situation. The result? The hunter has now become the hunted!
Keep him working a bit more. Tease here and there, but don't let him get you too quickly. This is his turn to do all the pursuing and chasing. You've done your hard work.
Now you get to sit back and enjoy this a little bit.
Keep in mind how things have shaped up for you when you've been able to fight temptation and trust yourself.
RTL
Well, don't think he will be doing that much hunting RTL,
Ali said she was seeing him Saturday and spending the night!
Maybe the bad back might be a blessing in disguise-lol sorry Ali, hope bruising is getting better.
I think just about everyone has said don't be so available and walah! keep it up it is obviously working.
Hey guys.. You are so right Rob!! I didnt think of it that way, but I am feeling a tad pursued right now.
Naej.. you keep making comments about me and staying over/sex! Whats that, disapproval? I've been celibate since he left me! My Mum was funny.. she said perhaps you should have ML to him!!! Ahh, well she has been M 42 years, so she knows how to keep a man interested (uhh, lets not think about it). I have decided to go, have fun, lots of laughs, stay over then leave early. I'm going to get some snuggles in first. We stayed overnight several times last summer and everyone was excited for me.. well, he kept his back to me each time then. Last week, he was an octopus, arms and legs around me and kissing my face. Lovely! I dont imagine any harm will be done by me 'crashing' there for the night.. he invited me afterall.
I realised something today. Its rare for people to get a 2nd chance here.. but he wants back without other factors, like.. M, religion or children. He came back just for me. Wow, that makes me feel special.
Ali,
Not sure why I get singled out but just to recap,
I actually suggested not sleeping over once on this thread as did:
Istherehope,
Jeff also said not to stay over,
Simon said,take it really really really slowly and don't put it on a plate for him,
Refuse TL, also said hang back let him wriggle and mentioned about x turning into the hunter when he is not pursued(which was why I made the comment about him not having much time to be the hunter.
So all the men seem to have said the same as me.
Plus DB coach Jody.
I am not judging anyone, we each have our own moral codes of conduct. I do have two sons and I know what they say about girls and what their friends say about girls who offer it up on a plate.
Your situation is your situation and you will deal with it as you see fit.
Strange that Jodies advice was the best thing since sliced bread when it agrees with you yet not when she tells you otherwise, but you know best, this is your x.
I don't recall you posting about you staying over several times last summer,I thought you didn't know where he lived. My mistake.
That would have been when he was with Helen I take it.
Anyway,I probably should have let the post go,in DB style so I will just shut up.
I do agree that it is rare to get a 2nd chance so I wish you well with it.
All situations are so different, yet so the same to a large extent, no one size fits all solutions, only the person (s) involved know how to handle it.
We (other posters) can only give opinions,advice,help and support.A few like BND have had X's return, most of us have not.
Bottom line is it is your choice.
Hope the back is better btw.
Naej - you deserve a medal for tolerating the disrespect here as long as you have.
You are a saint for hanging in on this thread as the clear voice of reason all this time.
I think we grow in our own time and until we are ready we can't hear the message - in order to learn the lessons - no matter how clearly it's presented.
You gave it a good shot.
V
WalkingBack,
sorry, where did that come from? Disrespect? Towards naej? I had to go back and reread to see if I missed something. The only thing I found was naej's comments about morals and I realised why Ali felt she had to respond...
K
Btw, in case you dont know, I consider naej my friend and I always thought the girls have a special way of communicating. I guess not.
Wow..thats pretty strong and unnecessary? Neaj.. Maria is right. You made a comment earlier about self resepct which I felt was rather personal. Also does anyone remember posting to Maria that way? NO... everyone encouraged her, nagged her even to be intimate with her H when he came back. I am not a child, I am nearly 40 years old, as Maria is. I dont see why my sitch is different to hers back then.
Virginia.. I have no idea what you are talking about, I have grown tremendously in the past 2 years, with 15 months of weekly C. I have learnt my lessons, changed at a core level and won my ex back along the way, which is the point of DBing is it not? I would hope people would be happy for me instead of this negativity.
Ali,
I'm a little worried about your spending the night b/c I'd like to see him work for you a bit more, but it is soooooo easy for me to say that when I'm here and not walking in your shoes.
Would I act differently if I were in your position? I'm not sure I would have the ability to say no and I'd most likely spend the night too. Does it mean that is what I think deep down is the best thing to do? No, but it is probably the path that most of us would succomb to.
In the end, you know what you need to do and what will and won't work. You love this man and of course it would be wonderful to be his lover again as you've shared a lot and have a bond.
Just be careful when you evaluate the situation. If it seems like a good thing - jump on it. If not, hold back. Besides, denying him will increase the anticipation, so it could end up being a good thing for you to stay over, but not have sex w/him.
Being realistic, I understand how much will power that would take, but again, you'll have to read it for what it is worth tonight and go from there!
I hope this stupid American is making some sort of sense!?! It sounds good in my head, but I'm also single and divorced.
Have fun tonight and I'll look forward to the updates!
RTL
As far as I can tell this is the bit that you took as personal-highlighted,other than that I did not say anything different to what all the other posters had been saying, not just on this thread but lots of them.It was also in response to Kats post.
However it was me that got singled out and not for the first time.
"Kat,
I guess what I was trying to get across was if this was a brand new guy, would you be staying over so quickly? And really I am trying to get past this American way of being Miss Goody-two-shoes.
[/quote)
I am not sure this is the European way, more a personal thing.I know lots of youngsters who are as you say Goody two shoes
,I call it self respect."PS: Kat,
if this was a new R, I would DEFINETLY be staying the night. I havent in 20 years just gone out then gone home.. we fell in love, I moved in. 3 times. I know that isnt going to happen this time though!”
I will no longer post to you Ali,you have taken my posts the wrong way many times.
I would say that given what you posted again to Kat above,maybe at nearly 40yrs it might be time to approach relationships in a different way.
Btw I just reread your posts from last June, July and August --apart from jobs that came and went are you sure you have grown that much.
I have grown tremendously in the past 2 years
and
won my ex back along the way, which is the point of DBing is it not?
I am happy for you, I won't point out the differences between your thread and Maria's,b/c I think she herself has told you,on more than one occassion.
Good luck.
Nah...I didn't see any disrespect either. Knowing how naej and Ali interact, I think it was par for the course. It's a mother/daughter type thing.
Mom's criticize lovingly and daughters take it however they want to take it. Works for me!
Ali, sorry I've been behind. I'm so sorry to hear about your back. That is just horrible.
I hope it's feeling better. Have you tried a hot bath in Epsome salts? Does wonders for me.
Just be careful. If things are awkward or weird between you after ML, be prepared to be really upset (been there, done that). Don't go for it unless you are absolutely sure you can act "as if" afterward, regardless of what happens.
Maybe you should just play the bad back card the first sleep-over.
Good luck!
Naej...
"Btw I just reread your posts from last June, July and August --apart from jobs that came and went are you sure you have grown that much."
Neaj, I am hurt that yet again you choose to say something personal. I find the way you post to me is quite unkind and unnecessary. So you reread my posts of 3 months to prove to yourself (?) and now to me here, that you arent sure that I have grown that much. Dont you think thats a bit wierd behaviour? The biggest thing that has come out of this 2 years is that I HAVE grown.. all my friends and family say it and I am a better person for it. I am more patient, compassionate, easy going, less fearful and more giving.
Neaj, this is a public forum, you are welcome here, I just ask you.. please dont post if you arent my friend, or have respect for me. I dont think its healthy for either of us and its no fun for anyone reading.
Mish.. thanks for your support! I missed you too.. my back is bad!! But it was kind of useful in a funny way, as the technicians felt so guilty (it was their fault) that I had 2 out of 3 of them helping me and so my space noise trumpet speaker boxes (its art!) look amazing ! I worked really hard on them, I sanded them for 4 hours today !!
So.. to ML or not to ML, this is the question. Rob.. I was planning on doing what you suggested... stay over, but not ML. Last week, I kept my underwear on (yes Maria, I forgot to tell you that bit !!!). After living together for 8 1/2 years, thats obviously not back to normal yet!
Andabelle - he knows I have a bad back, and has been very sweet about it! It was surprisingly not wierd last week, only when it came to say goodbye. It must have been for him though, because I felt a little awkward in bed at one point and he didnt want to stay over the next night when he could have.
Today.. he called again.. I let it go to voicemail, so then he TEXTED me to say he had tried to call and got VM and would try again in a minute.. so I answered but said I was busy and said, call later if you like.. so he did and we chatted and after 1/2 hour I said.. I will let you go now, I have stuff to do... so, I am trying !
He invited me over tommorow lunchtime, he has 6 friends coming to camp for the weekend! I said, I cant, I have to go to college, but I will come later, maybe teatime.. he said, cant you tell them your back is bad and you have to leave early? I said, maybe.. he said, ok, I will call you at 1 and see if you can leave.
BUT.. he could have seen me tonight, but he said he was going to see MF instead. I was glad in fact.. but he is still tiptoeing around me and being a bit reticent. About tommorow, at first he said "Maybe we could catch up tommorow, or something" and when I sounded hesistant and said, if you like.. he said "Yes! Definetly I would like that". So its all still confusing hey and seems he is needing to chase me. I am a bit rubbish at that stuff, I know ,he knows, everyone knows I am a done deal, but I am trying !!
I forgot something else.. he said again about wanting to come to my show. The show is in mid June (he knows that) and so I guess he is mentioning things in the future .. even if it is only 3 or 4 weeks away. SO thats postiive! (I dont bring up future things with him). Also.. the friends that are coming tommorow are from our hometown. As he was holding my hand and kissed me in front of Cher and G, I assume he will be doing this in front of them.. so we will be truly going 'public' now.
Sort of feels a bit unbelievable, unreal, like a dream even...
Ali, I was not going to post to you again but you have questioned my integrity and singled me out.I note you still did not concede that many others said the same as me.
I am to be the scapegoat,so be it.
Honesty,truthfulness and integrity are things closest to my heart and how I live my life and always have.
I appreciate that you are a free spirit, over enthusiastic and wildly imaginative-that is your charm.
I went back to check for my own sake to see if I had been unfair in my remarks also to try to read of these encounters of nights together that I had missed.The teacher in me I guess. I recognise that we cannot always like/gel with some people but we can always be fair and non judgemental.This I strive to do.
I am more than able to apologise if I had been harsh. I like to check facts, I like to verify things, it is how my mind works.
Nothing sinister.
I have never felt that not being a cheerleader = negativity.Indeed I have always tried to prevent posters from either drowning in pain and hopelessness or getting too carried away by the small steps only to crash.
A balanced approach,this is a long journey for most.
Surely the point of saying something on someones thread is personal.As you say this is a public forum.
If you were my daughter I would be saying the same things.
You say you have won him back, I would question that,but that is me.What matters is that you believe it b/c you stated it.
You say that you are hurt yet again.I am sorry you feel that way.
I also have been very hurt many times over your remarks to me, but I continued to post realising that you are in a very emotional state and volatile.
You are right this is not good for other posters to read,so I will no longer post.
I truly hope that you have won him back but fear you have a longer journey ahead than you realise but I admire your certainty and optimism.
Nothing I have posted to you has been other than from my heart or truthfully quoted from what you yourself have posted,that any poster can read.
I hope this is now laid to rest.
Neaj.. I am not 'singling you out' and you are not a scapegoat. My comments to you are only ever in direct response to your comments to me, here and on others threads in the past.
I do NOT post remarks to you because I am emotional or volatile Neaj, I cant have you think that. You can be quite blunt and sort of sound not really on my side sometimes. I wouldnt say I was a 'free spirit', I just have a strong intuitive sense. But thankyou for saying I am charming !
I KNOW we have a long journey ahead, Neaj, I am not stupid. Because I post about the hear and now does not negate the stuff that is coming up a month, a year from now. Its just not relevant yet !
I am just starting on this journey with him and it is nerve racking..I have won him back, but for how long? So perhaps I need some gentle encouragement? And optimism, why not? We all need hope.
I feel perhaps you need to work on some healing for yourself. You post here daily but your H left 8 years ago. For some reason, you have liked to pick away at me. I am not sure what purpose that serves for you, but it hasnt helped me in dealing with my ex!!! These threads are here to help us DB?
If you want to join in with that, like I said, you are more than welcome Neaj. Truly.
oh and sorry for getting your name wrong, yet again! I meant Naej.
I have notified the moderators to shut my thread earlier tonight anyway, as I was thinking I might move to piecing.. but maybe that would jinx it!? Perhaps I should see how it goes tommorow first...
Good luck in piecing.
Yes my x has been gone along time.I did not find this site til later. I did not post for many years so no, not been posting on a daily basic for 8 years.
Thank you for thinking I need healing but I am fine.
I actually have made getting on for 1000 posts less than you.
Take care.
Ali, just following your thread and congrats on the positive developments.
Word of warning though, I have been piecing only to watch it disappear. This has happended more than once. I'm trying to db my current R after things looked great. The turtle seems to always go back in the shell and that's when you need to stay dim.
As far as advice from others I think all mean well. I'm speaking of the snarky lightly veiled bickering between you and naej.
For the both of you, as an outsider looking in, if stuff can't be let go on these boards I can only imagine what hurt feelings in your relationships bring out?!
Congrats again but think.
cire
I would hate for the two of you to end your friendly banter. Yes Naej is more the voice of practicality and yes Ali is the voice of an astrial spirit. that is what makes it so special here. Please put aside the bruised egos because Ali I too did say I didn't think you should stay over. Part of that is me, part of that is being American though I have lived in Europe and I know it is different there.
We are all here to help each other, can't we keep doing that?
Kat
Ali, I'm going to say that I am very excited for you. I know this is going to be a huge undertaking and not be for the weak spirited. I'm sure you are strong enough to handle this! You know your ex better than anyone and you know that he is a turtle so you are prepared to do this.
Can't wait to see your space trumpets!
I have grown tremendously in the past 2 years, with 15 months of weekly C.
Ali - you say that a lot. I guess I just don't see much evidence of it.
I observe that you still obsess about your relationship (healthy people are able to compartmentalise their lives to some extent so that they can focus on a balance of things - ultimately in western developed culture we should be able to focus on keeping our mind (I guess that's your art), body (that's usually the economic side of the equation) and spirit (for you that seems to be astrology - but only the clever intuition of positive planetary influcences) together - and if we are honest we both know there is far more to spirituality than that.
You have your X paying your credit card, your friends paying for your dinner, avoidance of your academic work until the last minute and an almost comical round of she-said/he-said discussions about your non-existant/maybe on/maybe off relationship with your ex boyfriend.
You seem to still perceive yourself as incomplete without a relationship - Girlfriend we are born alone and we die alone. If we can't learn to be adults alone, safe in our own skin, able to support ourselves emotionally and economically - then I suspect we are failing to learn the lessons. I just don't see that you are any closer to having a strong happy independent relationship with yourself
I see you still think you can behave in particular ways to manipulate the outcome you want - regardless of the place that poor man is at.
I see that you find it difficult to reflect on alternative points of view - and that is clear by the way you are so terse and impolite (to use your word) when you respond to respected older experienced members of this community. Most recently Naej and BND - but I've seen others burned, and I know I often feel as though I'd like to make a considered "pro" DB comment, but I don't have time in my life to spend writing to someone in good faith only to be flicked off like an annoying knat because you aren't ready consider the ways your behaviour impacts on your current circumstances.
So defend yourself roundly to every word I've written. But do yourself a favour and when you've calmed down, come back and read this post and the things Naej has been saying and ask yourself what it is that we say that makes you so uncomfortable?
Maybe there will be some answers there for you.
Good luck. I hope your boyfriend gets well, recovers from his depression and can return to snuggle, support and bring dinner for you when you are busy because you chose to leave everything until the last minute.
Ouch...
Good luck, Ali. I was reading on Priya's blog (you got me going on her!
) that this is supposed to be a big weekend for healing wounds. I don't understand it all as well as you but I am sure pulling for you!
Ali,
I am so sorry you don't seem to get what naej and walking back are saying to you. You seem to only believe what those who fawn over you say.
What was the point in having a consultation with Jody and then rejecting her professional advice about staying over? Don't you think that she is more experienced than you?
You may be ready for things to advance with your ex but from your description of him he hasn't even started to address his issues. Strikes me that a few months down the line you will be in problems again.
Piecing is for life if you want the R to work- I hope you realise that.
You imply that getting your ex back is what DB is about- if that is truly all it is about to you then I feel you have learned very little. It is mainly about being able to survive and be self contained and not needy.....whether that be with or without another person. You are WAY off that.
For the R with your ex to work he needs to be able to explain to you why he has felt/done what he has and you don't appear to be even considering that aspect. It takes TWO to make a R work in a healthy way.
I know you will brush this post off as you do all those that don't just cheer you along, but most of us that have made real progress have found in the long term it came from those that handed out the 2x4's or who made us feel uncomfortable in some way. If we feel uncomfortable about what a poster say's it's usually because they have hit a raw nerve.
You show little real introspection I am afraid. In terms of DB success I would put naej and many others who haven't gotten their ex's back way ahead of you, because of the people they have become.
I am glad you have another chance with your ex, but instead of this sounding like a healthy R this sounds like two needy people propping each other up with outside friends IRL pushing you together. To be honest I think Helen had a lucky escape and perhaps it was she who decided to end it as your ex sounds very high maintenance......like you.
You have a long ways to go and I wouldn't expect those in piecing to be any easier on you as we all know what hard work it is over there. Getting your ex back is only the beginning. One you have achieved that things get real tough.
Ali,
I am so sorry you don't seem to get what naej and walking back are saying to you. You seem to only believe what those who fawn over you say.
What was the point in having a consultation with Jody and then rejecting her professional advice about staying over? Don't you think that she is more experienced than you?
You may be ready for things to advance with your ex but from your description of him he hasn't even started to address his issues. Strikes me that a few months down the line you will be in problems again.
Piecing is for life if you want the R to work- I hope you realise that.
You imply that getting your ex back is what DB is about- if that is truly all it is about to you then I feel you have learned very little. It is mainly about being able to survive and be self contained and not needy.....whether that be with or without another person. You are WAY off that.
For the R with your ex to work he needs to be able to explain to you why he has felt/done what he has and you don't appear to be even considering that aspect. It takes TWO to make a R work in a healthy way.
I know you will brush this post off as you do all those that don't just cheer you along, but most of us that have made real progress have found in the long term it came from those that handed out the 2x4's or who made us feel uncomfortable in some way. If we feel uncomfortable about what a poster say's it's usually because they have hit a raw nerve.
You show little real introspection I am afraid. In terms of DB success I would put naej and many others who haven't gotten their ex's back way ahead of you, because of the people they have become.
I am glad you have another chance with your ex, but instead of this sounding like a healthy R this sounds like two needy people propping each other up with outside friends IRL pushing you together. To be honest I think Helen had a lucky escape and perhaps it was she who decided to end it as your ex sounds very high maintenance......like you.
You have a long ways to go and I wouldn't expect those in piecing to be any easier on you as we all know what hard work it is over there. Getting your ex back is only the beginning. One you have achieved that things get real tough.
Mish.. Bobbi, Kat.. thanks for your good wishes, its a big weekend I think too! Bobbi you are right, Priya is a wonderful writer, she is quite unique on the internet and it is meant to be very healing on Sunday particularly and its also a New Moon. There are reasons why I wanted to stay over with him to be there for that, but I didnt go into it here.
Wlaking Back.. He is NOT paying my credit card. I am paying another which was our joint one and I also paid our rent for over a year before he left me, which cost me £10,000, but I never asked for a penny back. Me and him have a kind of unspoken agreement about money where its swings and roundabouts between us (we own several properties).
I didnt leave everything to the last minute, I am doing a degree course (sculpture) and it ends in a week.. its natural to be flat out at this juncture, EVERYONE at college has been doing 10 hour days, as he was for his Masters and yes, as his partner then I did all the shopping and cooking whilst he revised. But I dont expect him to do that for me, as he is not yet my partner. Just because I am honest about wishing things were 'normal' and he were here supporting me at this last hurdle, does not mean I need him to be or expect him to be. Its just indicative that things are not back to normal (and wont be for a long time).
I dont need a man to be whole,I CHOOSE to have my ex back, as many of us here are trying to do, because I love him. Because he adds something to my life. Because he is a positive, joyful presence, NOT because I need him.
Jody is there to talk to as a therapist, but she IS American and there is a difference in how Americans and English people approach dating. I have found her very useful, but I dont think there is any harm in questioning some of the things she says, I am not a lemming.
Neaj, I wasnt referring to the comments about staying over... I meant a general approach to me and remarks made here and on others threads and I have repeatedly asked you to stop jabbing away at me, but you wont stop it. What else can I do? As for 8 years, clearly I was not implying that you posted for the whole 8 years.. I can see that this is your community, you perhaps feel safe here, or amongst kindred spirits, as you are not DBing anyone, but you continue posting to others. I made no judgement about that, simply that I genuinely feel that perhaps you need more healing over losing your H. I am not trying to hurt your feelings by saying that to you. If you dont feel as if you do, then I stand corrected and apologise.