Partner left after 9 years - change is on its way?

Hey everyone, my thread locked as I tried to post to it! The cheek of it. Here is is: left a year ago

GFI.. I checked out the link, they are good, but I was into the Two Tone, Ska thing when I was 11, but not so much now! (remember Two Tone!? So few people do, I had a black felt trilby hat from a joke shop, black tie and white shirt. Hmm, not a good look for an 11/12 year old girl !!?)

Kalni.. dont forget to buy a lottery ticket Thursday/Friday, I'm serious!

ITH... I wanted to say thankyou so much for your post! I agree that I wouldnt date, its never been me, I dont do dating and I'm not emotionally available yet anyway. If I had love at first sight with someone though (as I do), I would go for it! Why shouldnt I? He is seemingly gone and in a new R.

Also, yes, we considered ourselves M. We are both atheists and anti wedding ceremonies, so felt M without the expense! He used to tell people we didnt need to get M, as we have a "cosmic marriage" (a techincal term where the mans Sun and the womans Moon are exact conjunct in their synastry chart - this is incredibly rare). I always referred to myself as Mrs X for business things and he liked it. He did ask me to M him within the first 3 years and I said no becuase of my Mums indoctrination to NEVER get M. I'm past that now though with C and if we ever get back together (?!) I would want to get M, after all we've been through.

Hey Lisa! Well Mr Skywalker is a lovely guy, but at 11 years younger, it wouldnt work. He hasnt flirted with me either, but theres clearly a spark between us! I like his clothes/hair/taste in music, he's funny, gorgeous..ok, a bit of meaningless s*x wouldnt go amiss, but I dont think its on offer! Probably be a bad idea anyway, I'd get all attached to him and then he'd likely dump me and sail off to that London town!

Hi Ali,

Not much to add but I just sent you a message on FB :).

ITH

So, I wanted to add some things about our meeting Tuesday, now I have had time to reflect.

Remember how I went on and on for weeks about wanting/needing to talk to him? When it came down to it.. it wasnt me that asked to or started the convo, he did! He didnt move to get out the car, he threw his arms tound me and he started the conversation. I didnt have to do a thing! Amazing.

For the first time in 16 months, he WANTED to talk to me and honestly. At one point (he was talking about her) he said, "its so difficult to talk to you about this".. or something, but he told me twice that "stuff has happened" - he wanted me to know that. I wish I had asked him what he meant by 'stuff'?

He said he was "in too deep" - I said, what do you mean (I am still not sure).. for you, for me, for her.. or for all three of us? He straight away said, for all three of us.. my Mum said that was positive, it was inclusive, I am still in there in his head..it wasnt just about him, or him and her?

Also, he was wearing 'my' favourite clothes...the t-shirt, jumper and coat and pumps I had bought him over recent years as presents. Its my favourite jumper and looks lovely in it. The coat was the cord blazer he had stopped wearing in January, as he thought it made him look like an old git, but he looks lovely in it and he looks like himself. I havent seen him wear it all year until we met Tuesday. He may have made an effort for me, but at least he still 'looks' the same, even after a year apart!

We had a brief convo about mortgages, he was insisting that he would cover it as he said, I'm earning a full-time wage, I'll put the money in. I was gobsmacked at this, this is the first time he has acknowledged our difference in circumstances and he is behaving like he is responsible for me?

He told me he is wearing "the full front" to her...yet I could tell from 8 metres away that he was not ok. So she must be a very unenlightened person if she doesnt realise he is so depressed.

Also, he texted me Thursday to say "it was good to see you".. this is the first time all year he has told me that, even after all that contact, he would never say it was good to see ME..He also told me Tuesday that he missed me.. again, hes never said that. At the bomb, he said he was ending it becuase he DIDNT miss me.

So I could now wait and see when he emails me this week, as he will, to arrange driving home Friday. Or.. I could just email him and be friendly? What have I got to lose at this point? I need to ingratiate my way back into his life/pysche.

I am feeling annoyed today.. that he just started dating some random woman that jumped him at a work do!

Irrelevant: I am eating butterschotch cookies (or something similarly named)from M&S. I call them calory bombs... And I am drinking (cold) tea. Gosh, you girls are rubbing off on me...
S

I was just thinking, he will not call you because he knows you are meeting him on Friday. No use to put extra effort. He will only call to make the arrangements...

Hi there Ali - I know you want all these things - but it takes two to make a relationship - right now you don't think yourself "too much into this"

your XBF needs to have free will... otherwise he'll run - a million miles away...

Careful.... X s

Oh the Skuddas - one of the band members is a bloke I work with!

We also have Rainbow Trout and Little Volcanoes

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=76545524

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1468440730

I'm waiting for a "The is your life" mentions!!!

Best - GFI

FU - I'm waiting for a "This is your life" mention!!!

I'm positive you'll know what that meant!

Yes, I do! Wow, thats a lot of band action. I like going to band night here.

He was very keen to drive me home.. in fact he announced it rather than asked! He said..I've been thinking.. or I am going to drive you... something like that! I was happy to accept as I need to go home anyway. So, we WILL be in contact this week, I just wonder if I should be normal and email him about it, rather than wait. We will be couped up in his car for 4 hours. Like old times. I'm looking forward to it.

I wish they would split up ASAP! One thing is certain, I AM the greener grass! She sounds like a grade-A nightmare. I'm wondering if she will mind, or is insecure that he is off on a 'lads' holiday on Saturday for a week with 5 guys? (he is dreading it and said he just wants to sit quietly and read books !!).

Ali - Just act as if this is going to happen - nothing more, nothing less -

Of course you are the greener grass ...keep cool, chill, and be hot at the same time - and don't jump on him!!!

Best GFI

Hi Ali, In Jody's words & your H saying he's in too deep - that basically means, he feels that he has done so many things wrong that he can't go back to you. Jody's words were that he past the bridge or river of no return. Remember he is plagued by guilt and probably letting fear control him as my H is.

Hi Ali,

I've never posted to you but I read your thread alot. I've just started updating mine after several months.

I think you're amazing and I really appreciate your astrology knowledge as well.

I think of it this way - if the gods said to you - you're going to have 2 years all to yourself, then you'll be rewarded with a great companion (maybe your BF, maybe someone new)what would you do? Learn to fly or play the guitar, get in incredible shape,
run a marathon, read all those piled up books,write a book, etc., etc.?

It's really true, all you can do is take care of yourself and someone will eventually come around.

Hey GFI, thats funny! I dont know if he has the strength, the guts or the desire to break up with her. So its looking over, I cant wait forever, as I have already waited a year. I feel a little resentful that he just started a new R, with the state he is in, and after all that contact we were enjoying. I dont get it. And I am back to wondering what is so great about her!? Hmm, not better, just different...

MrsM..Wow, so do you mean, thats what Jody said to you as your H said he was in too deep? Its such a telling phrase, I am still wondering what exactly he meant, he did say "stuff has happened"..I think you're right, so much has happened he doesnt see (want?) how he can go back. BUT.. he's clearly not happy.

Hey SilverFox! I havent seen your thread. The phrases in your tagline are exactly what my ex said to me!

Thankyou for saying I am amazing, but I dont see why I am ! I do still love and respect him and can separate the behaviour in the past year from the man that was loving and kind to me for 11 years. BUT.. he better make some kind of move soon, I'm talking next month or two or three, but I cant see me waiting longer. I wil have a 2nd christmas alone, then our 10 year anniversary, then my birthday.

I agree with you.. I dont mind being alone and doing all the things I want. I do miss being in a relationship though. Its so sad.. its hard now to be back in touch with him, but then not hear from him since Thursday and imagining him having a good weekend with her.

In reality, I bet he is depressed, miserable and got drunk again Saturday night and hungover all day yesterday!

Ali,

Morning! Been reading but quiet. A little busy too. Read Priya today, pretty good. Haven't checked anything else yet. Still wiping the sleep from my eyes.

Have you set a time for Friday yet? If not, I would check with him at some point just to do that maybe. Anyway, have a wonderful day.

SF-I too heard the words in signature, those exact words. Been following you sitch a little. I love what you said about what would you do, and that is an excellent idea.

Hey Kel!
I've been reading Julie Demboski..its all happening Friday! Yes Priya is so insightful. So we are leaving 4ish Friday, from his work I think. I'd love to go for out with him that night when we get back (8pm ish).

He has blown all his savings this year - when he told me he is moving to J house in January, I must have looked crestfallen, because he jumped in with the reassurances (which was wierd in itself!) about how he has to, only because he is so broke and has no money. My BFF said, I wonder how long he'll last on his own, depressed before he cracks and just starts dating someone. I understand it wasnt me versus her.. coming back to me was a massive decision, he knows it would be for life, M, kids...too scary.

Its incredible he actually told his BMF he is worrying about aging and getting old and scared of dying..(also, WHY DIDNT HE JUST TALK TO ME ABOUT IT!?) SO textbook MLC. When I suggested that watching his Dad die in a coma had triggered this, he got angry and said, dont bring my Dad into this, its nothing to do with him. He should have had bereavement C. He clammed up about it within a month of his Dad dying.

So.. I get that this chaotic R is par for the course, he is in a dark depressed place, I didnt describe the look in his eyes Tuesday, but it was sheer torment. It was like someone had just died, or he had. It made my stomach turn over and made me weep. Plus she sounds like a messed up girl with no self-respect (downing pints, drink driving, having s*x with 2 separate guys in one night at a party?? Not good. God knows what my ex thought standing listening to her telling THAT story to his BMF! Great, thats my new gf. Arent I lucky). My BFF said, its the blackness in her that he is attracted to. She is Pluto-Venus.

I also accept that he WAS into her and it must have been new and exciting and a big distratcion. From what I have seen and all the crying and him saying, I dont know what I want or what to do.. and what his mate G said, it wont last, I think you should hang in there.. perhaps the sheen has worn off and reality has kicked in?

Looking at where we were at until August and him still being connected to me...being very very depressed, now saying "whats the point of it all?", theres NO WAY he is emoitionally in any fit state to be committing to a new long-term R. He would have got together with her because he doesnt have to be accountable for outcomes with her, but maybe she is pressing for more commitment.

I too have been reading Julie.

Good I'm glad you have a set time for Friday. Yes he probably should have had bereavement counseling, but even that doesn't always help unfortunately. Some people just don't have that faith in there really being somewhere better, but they dont' realize it until they face death close to home. Yes classic MLC and it just isn't any fun. No he couldn't talk to you about it. You know him too well, and I really think somewhere in there they know things logically and can't reconcile their feelings with the logic. So the ride begins. Longest damn rollercoaster I've ever been on.

Stop analyzing, worrying about waiting and do what you have to for Ali. If he comes around, your heart will tell you what to do then.

Thanks Kel...

Your H lost someone too didnt he. Its textbook MLC, something like death of a parent triggers it. I meant to say, when I asked him about his Dad, that was back in August 07, when he was distant and deciding he wanted space and said "my Dad was unhappy all his life".. we havent talked about it since. The Cruse, bereavement C said, watching a parent fade to death in a coma can really mess your head up!

We are both having Pluto square Pluto and are both in C. He is suffereing more than me (although I've been in hell all year too!). Here is a quick, interesting article on the 4 indicators of MLC. He is 35 and having Pluto square Pluto, but his Pluto is exact conjunct Venus (woman/mother) and squared to Saturn (father/maturing), so thats all getting tied in too..Saturn, is Old Father Time and its in his 8th house of death...

Interesting you say (and you are right).. "No he couldn't talk to you about it. You know him too well".. yes, why is that? It does seem to work that way, but I dont understand why!?

I do worry that he is/becoming suicidally depressed, I just want to vent that here. He kept saying "whats the point of it all?" and it worried me when he said he watches himself, working, eating, and thinks.. whats the point? He then said, "I'm nothing, forget me, I'm dead, I'm dead." Makes me shudder.

Yes my H lost his GM and that is about where things began. Actually, since 2002, he has lost all of his grandparents who were more like parents to him than either of his parents. I always worried how losing them would effect him. I lost all of mine when I was young. So I really understood death. Plus I know they are still here and I feel their presence all of the time. But he had never lost anyone. The final one to pass, was his favorite one. The one who always loved him and never made him feel like he wasn't good enough. We didn't really talk about it much, he never has liked talking about his feelings. But I've always known what was going on in his head. Until she died. Then the MLC stuff started and well you kinda know the rest.

Hmmm.. Leos (was it you that said that?) they wear the mask, dont like people to see the squishy vunerable inside, have to maintain a dignified King of the Castle together front. Foolish pride.

I'm feeling increasingly wierd today.. I'm feeling him gone, or going (or is it me thats going?). I think after the explosion of honesty and emotion last Tuesday, I am deflated to get one text message since and thats all. Although, it was a remarkable text, saying it had been good to see me. Its a speck of a crumb though isnt it. Maybe this is how it would be anyway (as it has been this way since September), or maybe that talk freaked him out. Still, he started it! And stuck with it. He didnt want to get out the car.

I guess we will be in touch over the next few days anyway about this lift home, or maybe I will email him tommorow. Just feel sad, like, something is ending. Not sure what, but I can sense it.

Well, just embrace the feeling and dont fight it. Maybe it's time.
xxx
K

I cant let him go, I want to, but I still love him.

I guess it really sunk in today, how upsetting it was to see the man you love say "forget me, I'm dead, I'm dead"...he said this Aug 07 before he left and he said it again in July. My BFF, who has had depression, said he was talking on a very personal level and that yes, he meant, dead inside.

(At least I know he's not in love with her.) Its very upsetting. I wish he would come home. I dont want to rescue him, I just want to be there, not that it would make any difference, he's too far gone. Too damaged.

We had a couple of 'our songs' this was one of them..."Everything that you've done keeps you from me."

Embrace - Come Back to What You Know

Come back to what you know,
Take everything real slow
I wanna lose you but I can't
Let you go.

Before you interfere
Let me make it loud and clear,
that you got no more to prove.
I'm a fool.

So take it easy on yourself,
There's nothing new about regretting how you felt.
I'll never let you down,
Or ever feel the way that I've been fearing now.

Coming back to what you know won't mean a thing.
Everything that you've done keeps you from me.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right.
I'm coming back to what you know,
Cos I know that I need it now it's gone.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right

So hang on to what you've got,
keep it safe.
Hang on to what you've got,
Keep it safe from harm.
You'll find.
There's nothing new that we can't leave behind.

Come back to what you know,
Take everything, real slow,
I wanna lose you but I got,
Far too high
To let go
Now the demon in me knows,
What I knew so long ago

Coming back to what you know won't mean a thing.
Everything that you've done keeps you from me.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right.
I'm coming back to what you know,
Cos I know that I need it now it's gone.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right.

So hang on to what you've got,
keep it safe.
Hang on to what you've got,
keep it safe from harm.
We got time.
We got time.

Coming back to what you know won't mean a thing.
Everything that you've done keeps you from me.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right.
I'm coming back to what you know,
Cos I know that I need it now it's gone.
Now I know that I need more time,
Come back and let me see you're right.

Come back to what you know,
Take everything real slow,
I tried to lose you,
But I got
far too close.

Then dont. You know what you need to do.
The song is really something, isnt it?
love & xxxx
K

Hi Ali,

I think the conversation you had with him was very significant--not necessarily because it points to any particular future direction for things--but because it lifts some weight off of your shoulders. It's like he is able to better own some of his own issues and difficulties in all this...and not only from a detached, intellectual place, but showing the angst and struggle he is going through. At the very least, this really is important to take home with you that here is evidence of how much of this is about him, his issues and struggles. Please remember this. I can imagine how hard it is to see him hurting and struggling in this way. You are really trying to be true to yourself in this by trying to figure out what the boundaries are in this mess--how much to support him, how much (and what kind) of contact to have, how much to keep your heart open.

It's almost like knowing how much he is struggling frees you up a little more to be you, to not be owning all of this. I identify with many parts of your story...it would be nice to have my W. be a mess in front of me in a sense, for these reasons.

BTW, I saw you on FB and you look almost exactly as I had imagined you!! Weird!!

Hang in there, feelings all over the place is normal, so I am told repeatedly : )

Purr

Ali, you are doing just what I knew you would do but hoped you wouldn't.

Quote:

(At least I know he's not in love with her.)

How do you know, how do you know he isn't telling her the same thing.
Ali I am not trying to pour cold water on your speck but I would hate you to fall right back.
You cannot believe a word he says right now. Yes you were tog. 10 years, quadruple that and I heard very similar.
Please don't make more of his words than what he said, wait and watch. I am not saying you won't get back together at some point.
Remember that we don't always get what we want but we do always get what we need. Yes I,m a Stones fan!
Demonising the OP will not help you.Continue with your life.
Stop analysing every word, please.Let him come to you, treat the journey as just that a shared lift.
Heaven help us how many threads will you fill after 4 hours alone with him!LOL
Ali I am only joking-well about the thread. I do worry about what is verging on obsession.Take care.

Ali, I just read what you posted about Kalni and her horoscope, that is really strange because when ever I read them I always feel Capricorn (which is my x's and yes I still read his and mine) is more me.Would that be possible as I am the opposite to him being Cancer?

I know it's a bit of a cheek when I just gently 2x4 ed you.
Still love ya.

Hey K! Yes, it is a lovely song isnt it. Takes me right back 10 years!

Naej..why not start your own thread? Its been 8 years.. I am curious about you you know. It depends which way round your chart is, they arrange the charts with a certain rising sign.. its hard to explain!

I know he isnt telling her the same thing. I saw at times this summer, out with his brother, cousin and best friend from when he was 7..he would be laughing, joking, turn to me and then in a second, the mask would drop from his face, his eyes would go dead and fill up. It was the freakiest thing I've ever since.

"You cannot believe a word he says right now" - I dont agree, I felt he was brutally honest. I think he is VERY depressed and I am concerned about him and I'm not going to apologise for that!

This isnt about me and him getting back together, or obsession, its about having compassion for another human being who is showing you their pain. And sitting with that.

Hey Purr! Lovely to hear from you.. so where is your update? There were always alot of similarities between us.. is yuor W still struggling then? Yes I feel so much better about myself, but naturally I am worried about him. I saw him like this when we lived together...Feb 05..April 06...July 07..last Christmas, March this year, July... and now. Of all those times, I'd say he is worse now. Are you on FB? Send me a friend request...

Ali, My H never said he was in too deep. Jody told me that phrase (he's past the bridge of no return) after I found out about OW. Meaning your H feels so guilty, so afraid that he doesn't know what to do. And he deosn't want to face the problems he's created. By breaking it off, he either hurts you or OW or both. He probably doesn't want to hurt either of you. Basically, your H has quite a mess on his hands ..... what does he do? He's gotta figure that out.

Ok Mrs M, I get you.. and yes, thats what the convo seemed like in the car! He said he was trying to think what to do, but whatever he does he will upset someone.. but.. we have been apart a year! Funny. Other stuff he said, my Mum said, its like he feels he is being unfaithful to you.

He also said, he wasnt sure what he wanted or what to do... so he is in some kind of weighing it up phase. I can see.. things may be getting more seriuous with her or will be, also he knows its the end of me and him if he commits to her. If he doesnt act soon, its over with me (yes, is anyway!) No going back.

But then, I think he had to do this, if he was ever going to come back, he had to taste forbiddne fruit, learn that lesson that the grass isnt greener, have his commitment tested.

Question is, is it not as green, or is he actually liking that new grass?

I think question is for your H, Julia's H & my H - which is the least frightening? In my last post to my own lonely thread, my H told me yesterday (when I dropped things off at his house) that he was afraid to see me & thought I was mad at him for filing for D. Fear is clearly choosing my H's path & guiding him well.

I'm have similiar thoughts as you about M. I think the piece of paper is, well really meaningless. Some people, most people asre going to do what they do whether they are M'ed & have a piece of paper or not.

Hey there, Ali!

Sorry I didn't comment earlier, but thank you for the post and the Cure song on my old thread. I smiled broadly thinking of you dancing like a maniac around your place. Great visuals, indeed. $\:\)$

As for letting go or not, that is up to you. Just make sure you don't stop living and wait. You'll become quite stagnant and boring that way and you wouldn't even like yourself. Continue to live for you and build a better you every day. That should be your daily goal. The matters of the heart will work themselves out for you, but I agree w/ Kalni not to fight them, but to ride them out and see where they take you.

About "Skywalker" I say WTF? If you go in w/ no expectations other than to laugh and have fun, then you won't get yourself hurt. The next time you see him, I'd be curious to know how he'd react to a touch from you that is a bit flirty. My guess, based on the chemistry, you'd have your invitation.

Finally, if you do decide to unsheath his light sabre, it doesn't mean that you've thrown in the towel w/ BF. It simply means you are a single girl who decided to have some fun. That's all. This point of view is definitely "man-centric" but I think it should be able to be applied to both sexes.

Just my thoughts as I'm nearing sleep....

I hope you rested well tonight and have a great Tuesday.

RTL

Naej.. I hate that phrase.. "Remember that we don't always get what we want but we do always get what we need. Yes I,m a Stones fan!"... a guy once put that song on after ML to let me know he was in love with someone else, but she didnt want him.. Hmm, that felt good! I have had so many terrible bf's in my youth.

Hey MrsM.. I must visit your thread. I'm sorry that he filed? I agree, its fear...my ex even talked to his BMF this summer about it, fear of dying/aging.. maybe commitment? Or maybe he just wanted all this, to change his life, shed the old him, break out, try a new gf. Gone is just gone right, well, most of the time.

Hi Rob!...I keep on keeping on. Lately, I seem to make people laugh a lot, so I hope I am not becoming boring! Those close to me know I still love him though. Glad you liked the dancing around! I wouldnt want to get involved with Luke S. He is too young and hasnt had his Saturn Return yet, so he has all his lessons to come. It'd be a waste of time. I havent got the heart for it!

So.. still feeling wierd, feeling a 'death' around. Cant work out what it is (cant make assumptions) and time feels like it has stood still right now.. theres a heavy wait in the air. This post today is brilliant and shows I am intuitively on the right track.. Priya Kale

Hi Ali,

I think you sound like you're doing really well. I've been reading along...

Of course it's natural to have compassion for your ex, knowing he's so depressed. I struggled with this with my H at the beginning of this all. He used the phrase "dead inside", and it about killed me...

It's hard because there just isn't that much we can do beyond being there for them, but it does sound as though you made inroads in that regard, letting your ex know that despite all of the grief, you are still there for him. I really hope that he will work on his own issues, will seek IC, and think about doing what is best for himself.

I'm excited for you and your drive on Friday. No matter what comes of your relationship, I think it seems that you are on the way to regaining a friendship.

ITH

Hey Ali,

Priya's post was very insightful wasn't it? Julie, I think, too said something about these final days before Pluto moves. Damn Pluto, I keep thinking about how different things were when it was briefly in Capricorn in the spring. It going back into Sag, that is when the crap started flying again. You sound really positive. Believe it or not, I FEEL positive, just having a hard time finding the right words to express.

Have a good day.

Hi ITH! Nice to see you :-)
I still am not so sure I am doing well! I do feel so much compassion for him. I've seen him with his family/friends and he doesnt talk to them like he talks to me.. apart from this new BMF down here, G, he's pretty emotionally open with him. I also believe him when he says he is wearing the full mask to her, but it slips when he is drunk/tired. Sad that he is choosing to be in an R like that, rather than be by himself and work on his issues (or come back to me!!!). He is having IC, but he said she was "very well meaning, but useless"! Yes he told me he felt "dead inside" too, Aug 07. And again now I guess.

I'm still freaked by some of his comments and can only assume (!) he is not planning on leaving her.

I do hope we can build up the contact again, I miss him so much. I dont know why we are not in touch very much, its not like we dont get on great like before. Is it because its awkward, guilt, just busy with ow, or he just doesnt want to? Who knows. I just emailed him about Friday anyway...

Hugs Ali!

I responded to your post on my thread...sorry, I should have done it here instead!

Chin up...smile...

$\:\)$

BA

BTW, Ali & Julia, Last summer I read a book on depression called The Man Behind the Mask. A very good book about male depression. It helped me to understand my H much more. Check it out on amazon (I went to the library & checked it out). I then ordered it from amazon & had it sent to my H. That was probably not the right move. But I did it anyway.

Hey Kel... I meant ro respond. If you listen to Priyas audio she says we should know what to expect now, as Pluto moves out of Sag, as we got a taste of it Jan 26th - May when Pluto dipped into Carpricorn then...so if things were different/better in the Spring, should be a reemergence of that?

For me.. 26th Jan was the DAY he moved out..and cried about it. Then he started contacting me, on the 21st Feb eclipse, he drove 250 miles and arrived at his BMF house in tears saying he thought he had made the wrong decision. His BMF (a guy who can NEVER talk to his W about how he feels).. told him to never breathe a word to me about it, unless he was 100% certain he was sure, I wouldnt be able to take it if he left me again. So he never told me.

We got closer Feb-May..25th May was the closest we got, he asked me to get into bed with him, told me he loved spending time with me, he just needed some time to sort himself out, it wasnt my fault and I shouldnt blame yourself. The next day, he was emotionally withdrawn again and its been downhill eversince.

BA.. Thanks for the hug! Yes, been a long 16 months hasnt it??
MrsH.. Thanks for that, if he ever 'comes back' .. I would read it !!!

So, I got an email back from him this morning.. 9.30, which is unusual now. Over the past 3 months, he hasnt tended to reply rhe same day, and then later in the day (like 5.30)..

He said sorry (to not be in touch sooner)..he'd been off work with a bad cough and cold. I was sad to read that. He's been repestedly ill in the past year, he never used to get ill. He had a bad cold for over a week the week before last. So guess he's just being ill and still with her and not in breaking up mode! Sigh.

He said he was flat out at work now and would let me know what time we are leaving on Friday.

I had told him I edited some of the kids dissertations (they were appallingly bad. Whats happened to the youth of today, or is that just Fine Art students??) and he asked me a question about it.. which was a tiny positive.. as it was inviting me to reply (he stopped inviting chat in emails back in Aug/Sep).

I drafted a jokey email, which had lots of questions in it. I was going to tone it down, but hit send by mistake. Oh well. He's dating someone else now, dont suppose it matters what the ratio of ? marks is!

It was probably good that you accidentally sent it. Yes I too have been wondering about the Cap thing, if it is a sign what to expect is coming and you know, I'm different now and have been wondering if it goes back like the "preview" how will I react? But since I have no way of knowing until something happens, I am not trying to worry about it. I can't plan my reactions. We will just wait and see what happens and how I feel. So as the end of the year/Jan approaches, I'm just going to be watching and waiting and then I will make a solid choice I think one way or the other.

It sounds like you may be having to do the same down the road.

Hang in there Ali! Just when we think we are out of patience, we somehow find it again...???

Thinking of you!

BA

Thanks BA, your message may be serendipity...as I was just feeling out of patience !!! I was sat here thinking... well, he's with her now. He didnt even have an EA, PA, or ow..? I lost him to depression and becuase he felt his feelings had died.. and now he is with her for 3 months nearly, and he tells me.. I feel dead inside. Hmm... dont think it was our R that was the problem then, but, um.. you??

I had a little look at my Calendar. We've been back in touch since beginning of October and up to end Nov, he contacted me on average, once every 4 days over that 2 months. So if you were into statistical analysis, you might say that was good!? But all I can think is, its her he's stood next to brushing his teeth right now.

Makes me so sad. I think, like Kalni, I may have a burst of honesty on Friday... say, I love you goddamit, I miss you, its not too late right now to put this back together, we can start out as friends again, but please consider ending it with her and giving us another chance. But if you are happier with her and you dont plan to leave her, then stay with her and be happy and I will graciously bow out and leave you to it.

I wouldnt SAY it in that way, but thats what I would mean.

Ali,

I can certainly identify with having particular images of the WAS with someone new, however they show up in our minds. I totally get the honesty part and what you want to communicate to him. It is very sad indeed. But I am not sure he's open to hearing it...maybe he is, but I'm not sure of that. It is clear as day that he is not emotionally available to her...but then that also means he probably is not available to you--at this point, anyway. It's amazing the degree to which there remains an intense sense of connection both ways in spite of all that has happened.

I'm afraid I don't have much useful advice, but did want to check in and say hi, acknowledge the place you are in today.

Purr

Ali,
sorry I wasnt around much yesterday. But I have been thinking about you and your meeting on Friday. Please try not to think the same things over and over and over again... Dont you see it's a cheeseless tunnel to assume what he feels and thinks? Shift your focus Princess...
Love
K

Will you be able to post from your home or we will have to wait till you come back?

Hey Purr...yes, thats what I noticed, that despite everything, there is still an intense connection between us. I feel it, but he must too.. to drop his mask like that, hug me lots, look at me in sheer torment, cry and soak his sleeves, tell me he is in such bad shape. He doesnt even tell his Mum/Brother/BMF any of this.

Good point.. he is not emotionally available to her, or just not open with her?

I remembered other things he was saying.. he said, I'm nothing, I'm just a muppet that works and drinks pints and makes people laugh. Oh sure, I can make people laugh, but thats all I am good for... I tried to say .. no you're not.. but he reacted badly and cried. I should've said, what ways are you NOT a muppet?

Hey Kalni, I missed you! But you had a big day yesterday. Its hard to know how he is. Last time I saw him there was that outpouring of emotion and honesty about his mental state!

Yes I'll be online! He's going away Saturday morning. I'd like to go out with him Friday night with our old friends (as we did last time we were home, but that was on the Sat night) but I dont see he will invite me.

So he emailed back today at 9am, very helpful, with a map and directions to where he is picking me up to leave at 3. He said he was very busy with work and was 3pm ok? And that was all.

So I am feeling nervous now! I dyed my hair last night, just a little, to give it a lift.

...so, we've exchanged 4 or 5 emails today, which is nice (most since end August!).. we're making arrangements but its all friendly/jokey. I said I'd rip some music for him and he was very grateful. May as well keep it friendly! Still nervous about tommorow, but I guess it will be fine, like old times.

So, somethings happened to me... I feel released! I have heard from old friends on Facebook yesterday and today.. people coming out of the woodwork, saying its so great to hear from me... two old best friends from school, two from work.. I am planning to go see one and her band she plays in.

Pluto just exited my 11th house of friends and groups yesterday, I feel like that Plutonic stuff just lifted off me in that area.. suddenly, all these friendship possibilities have opened up. For Kalni.. it just moved out of your 7th house of M yesterday, did you feel Pluto lift off you?? Its really interesting to me to see the effects of that so vividly, as for both of us, it was on a house cusp when it changed signs yesterday. Freaky.

I've certianly got a lot to tell him in the car tommorow. I'll probably jabber away the whole 250 miles!

(like here ey!)

Hi Ali, Remember to validate his feelings and say you understand. Let this be another connection between you. That you understand how he's feeling. This must be very difficult for him. When my H & I had our R talks, I wish I would have let him take the lead more. But, I had so much to say. I'm sure your H is nervous too and very afraid.

What site do you find all this stuff out about the planets & such? Very interesting.

(((Ali)))

The best of luck for tomorrow. You sound good! Keep up that PMA. Be the greener grass hun, not that you need to try. You are obviously waaaaayyyy better than that Helen girl. $;\)$

And don't jabber the whole way through nerves or filling in gaps, remember it physically takes men a little longer to speak than us women.

Hey MrsM.. well, I did the opposite, my RL people said "why didnt you say X!?" I mainly held his hend or rubbed his knee and said "Oh honey" or something! I forgot to mention that in our R talk he was calling me Darlin', instead of Al, as he had all year..which is good, but not good.. he never called me that before, so it must be what he calls HER! Eek. Got the two of us mixed up. He always called me Hun or honey.

...ha ha! So he replied.. I did a little test email.. just joking with him, after he said he was very very busy.. but he reciprocated! He bit and emailed back at 5.30! Hmm... maybe a slight, ickle, incey, wincey thawing ?? So, I thought, strike whilst the irons hot and shot another witty remark back. Good job I have a fast wit!

This is the kind of thing I'd have been cartwheeling around the room over back in February. Funny. I've led in bed with him and grabbed his Willie Wonker since then, now he has a horrid ow doing that for him.

Someone said not to demonise the ow.. but every single person I've told about the "she slept with 2 separate guys at a party" has universally said "eewww! I'd walk the opposite direction if I heard that!"

So we did 8 emails today. Thats a record since August. Bodes well for the journey. I promised to bring water and snacks, if he was lucky. Plus I have ripped a load of new CDs for him, which he was too tight to buy lately! (but spends loads on beer). So thats good, thats how he wooed me, 10 years ago.

((((Al))))

Sounds like a great DB opportunity tomorrow. I almost feel as though it's March thinking about BF driving you home and you showing him how great you are!

I'll keep my fingers crossed that he continues the open-ness he started last week.

L. xx

Hi Lisa! Wheres your thread, have you started a new one? Hows things?

Its pretty surprising he was emailing me today, he is mega busy too. And yes.. does feel like that time we drove home in March, well remembered! That was my BD weekend and he gave me a CD when we got back here on the Sunday night. I've just burnt 4 cd's for him, funny.

My sister said, he is losing you now, not the other way around. Saw my BMF and had some wine.. he said that he is probably already beginning to regret it. She does not sound like a good catch for a 35 year old guy! But.. these things can take a looong time to play out right, so, think it is time for goodbye and be happy, from me. Best case scenario is if he invites me out and I have chance to tell him that.

I'm nearly done. I deserve to be loved, it pains me the sheer level of rejection I have suffered for the past 18 months. I love him with all of my heart, but enough is enough! Unless I get some positive sign of indecision from him tommorow.. I'm letting him go, lovingly. (but I AM liable to change my mind $;\)$ )

Hope the car trip goes well! Be mysterious, fun, happy. Look gorgeous (easy for you!) and fliratious! You will be fine!

So pleased to hear that you are connecting with old friends. Keep your attention on your wonderful life. (((Ali)))

Thanks Essie, nice to see you...

Well, went to bed and couldnt sleep (1am?) then woke up 5ish and couldnt get back to sleep.. so I got 4 hours sleep and look terrible! Had very wierd dreams. Woke up thinking I'm not sure I can do this anymore, if he is staying with her... he has a gf. Unless something happens to change my mind. I think I will be myself in the car, it wont be like March (when I was quiet and unconfident and felt so worthless). Wish me luck.

Good luck Ali! You will be brilliant :).

ITH

Good Luck Ali,
remember you have nothing to lose. Be yourself and try to feel you took advantage of this time together for your own peace of mind.
The C told me the other day that I was too careful and protected H by not being open and honest in the past so that he wouldnt feel uncomfortable and that I shouldnt do that, I should protect myself. She said, your H is a grown up, responsible for his actions, you are not allowing him to express himself...
Take care, good luck, thinking of you,
K

Thanks girls.. I was working, but had to leave, just sick with nerves and need to redo my hair!

I look a mess (probs not, but hey). I dont know if I can do this.. to sit in a car with the man I love, going back home as we had done so many times, that joorney over the last 2 years.. yet this time, he is now with someone else. I cant handle it! Lisa, you deserve the George Cross or something for bravery, I cant do what you have done, I dont think.. its killing me. If he wants her, I will have to step away. Christmas coming up is frekaing me out.. to think of him exchanging presents with her (they are bound to) spending the day with her (not so sure on that one). I will have to see how he is or hwat he says later.. but if he just drops me off at my Mums, there will be no time to talk, my only hope is for him to invite me out tonight, but he hasnt said anything yet and he will assume I have made arrangements elsewhere, so its not looking likely..

and then he is away for a week.. and then, he is bak and it will be mid December and I doubt he will want to meet up with me for a drink so close to Christmas...although theres no way of knowing really whats going to happen next. I just feel really wierd now all the planets have shifted, so I wonder if he does too.

As you can tell from my post, I am stressed, so I am going to go put some makeup on and calm down.

(((Ali)))

Ok, you ASSUMING big time here!!! Stop!!!

i've seen your picture, you are seriously gorgeous - you have no worries in that department.

I would suggest you act 'as if' here. Stop those thoughts and think of him as a friend who is giving you a lift. Why don't you not ask him if he wants to meet, be your wonderful, funny self and he may just ask you himself. You are having this contact, think of it as 'enough'. There is plenty of time later on for more contact, it doesn't all have to be now.

Chill my dear - you will be wonderful. And if it is awkward... stick some music on.

...ARGHHH! THANKS! Am looking A-ok acutally today... fixed hair/face, got music.. am now off to counselling, for anm hour (!) then on the road to meet him. Updates later.. eek

Al x

I know you are on the road already Ali but I'm sending hugs out to you via cyber-wavelength. Hopefully they will reach you on the road.

Take care of you sweetie!

I am astrally projecting some hugs your way.... you can do it, ali!!

((((Al)))) Good Luck- I hope you're out with him and your friends tonight as I type!

L. xx

Not good guys. Hardly have the heart to type it up really, no I didnt go for a drink, he dropped me to my Mums at 6.30ish, we sat in a layby about 10 doors down having a hideous convo, startded by me, I think.

Held it together the whole journey, until a mile from home. It was hard, we chatted all the way, but we ran out of things to say for the last 60 or so miles...some silences. He was very sweet when he met me, I felt in love with him, as usual, such a bad state for me to end up in. He was chatty and sweet the whole way, made me laugh a bit, I did him a little, but it was a little awkward, or I felt it. We listened to the CDs I copied him. We got on great as always, he was lovely.

Then..we got into our hometown and he turned left to my Mums not his, assumed he was driving me there, I thanked him. He said he had to prepare himself mentally for dinner at his mums... and it hit me. Its over, hes gone. We are heading to different houses (as we have before) but no going back now, this is how it is.

I asked him if he was going out after, he said he was with his brother, so I said tentaviely it would be nice to go for a drink..he said,sorry, I just want to catch up with my brother, is that ok? Sorry...etc. Basicaly, from this point on, the last few miles, he started saying.. sorry Al, are you ok? I said yeah, just wouldve been nice to go for a drink. He said sorry again and said.. are you ok? I said yeah...again he asked me and I said why and he said because your upset arent you and I said, well are you ok, and he said "yeah..." but didnt look it.

So... I think I was saying was he sure and I asked him to pull into the layby, not outside my Mums ad he did, but left engine running...we had 5-10 min convo, awful, cant remember the order of it, but I spent alot of it burying my head in my hands and saying "oh no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry..." and he kept saying why, dont be silly, dont say that...but kept repeating that he was sorry for upsetting me. I dont know, it was awful, awful because its over....

So not sure what order these snippets happened in, it as a blur..

I said are you ok? He said he keeps upsetting me and he cant stand it, he knows it upsets me to see him every time and he doesnt want to keep upsetting me, hes upset me enouh already.

I think I said, but I used to see alot of you.. and he looked down, sad, frowny and said quietly "I know" and I said, and you used to call me alot and again, "I know"..and now I dont see you or hear from you much.

He said at one point "I miss you.. I love talking to you Al, BUT..."

I said, but..what? And I waited for about a minute, he looked down and was struggling and sighing and looking like he was going to say something serious, but evetually gave up and said quietly and looking teary again "I find it hard to talk..." I said I know you do... he said again he found it hard to talk about stuff. I asked him if there was anything about me that made it hard to talk to me, he said, no, but again I think something about not wanting to upset me. He got teary, looked out the window and with real feeling said "I cant stand that I keep upsetting you, keep upsetting people, I cant stand it".

I was saying, this is really bad, I feel awful, I shouldnt have said anything, now you wont want to see me.. and he said dont be silly or something and I kept saying, but this is bad he said why, I said, becuase I am sat here and I just want to give you a hug.. so he said, come here, and hugged me firmly..but not romantically,for a long while.. and pressed my back and I put my fingers in his hair and he didnt mind..

I said, you say you miss me and love talking to me, but I dont get to see you or speak to you much, or that I'd only seen him twice...

At some point he said he couldnt because he keeps upsetting me and he has upset me enough already. I think I said it upset me more to not see him.

He also said, with reluctance but firmly "Its awkward for me Al", I said "it is? Why" he said "Well.. it puts me in an awkward position" and looked very guilty. (I assume he meant, either because of my feelings for him, or because of Helen?)

He said something about "well I said I would drive you home"..in a way which made me think she may not have been happy about it.

I got very upset at this, not crying (we didnt) just head in hands. I think around this point he hugged me again for a good while... when he let me go he said "I just want you to be happy Al. I want you to be happy".

I said it was hard for me after last week, the things he had been saying and he seemed depressed.. he looked embarressed and frowny and said "Sorry about that, I was drunk"..I asked him if he remembered what he said and he looked unsure... I said, but you seemed depressed and so I'm sorry for doing this now...I kept burying my head and saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, I didnt mean to say all this" and he kept reassuring me saying dont be silly, its fine, its alright...

I think as time went on and it got worse I said, you dont want all this do you, I think this is when he looked out the window lookng upset again and said "I dont really know what I'm doing Al, I dont know what I'm about"

He said that he just didnt want to talk about it right now, he had to go to his Mums...could we talk about it when he gets back from his holiday? I said REALLY? we will? He said yes, we'll talk about it next week and looked worn. He then said he had to go and I said "Oh sorry!" and went to move, but he said, not yet, I didnt mean right now!... and I think I asked if he was angry at me, or annoyed? He said no, I said do you think I am an idiot? He said "why would I be annoyed at you, or think you are an idiot?!" and so I said "Becuase I'm so sorry, about the way I am, because of the way I feel"... I dont remember what he said to this, but he looked upset and guilt ridden I think. I think he might have hugged me again...

We drove me to my Mums. We sat outside for a minute and I said "I'm SOOO sorry for doing this to you, I'm so sorry, you have been depressed and I shouldnt have..." and he told me to stop apologising and it was fine and then hugged me again, but more "there there" type hug and said into my hair, "have a nice weekend Al, see BFF and try and have a nice time and I am sorry BFF H Dad is dying and I hope you have a good weekend" and I said I hoped he had a good holiday. We then pulled back a bit and sat staring at each other with immense emotion, just staring holding each others gaze, he looked incredibly emotional, guilty?? It went on for a while and then I said..."can I kiss you goodbye ?" and he looked a little shocked I think just as I put my hand on his cheek and kissed the other.

So...he's now attached to her. Any chance I had until August has evaporated. I said, endings didnt I and sudden turnarounds today.. I was expecting a more positive turnaround, or for them to be in trouble, but seems he is getting closer to her.. if he is worried about seeing me now, because its "awkward" or whatever he meant by "puts me in an awkward position", despite saying he missed me and loves talking to me.

Maybe he will talk to me when he gets back. I felt sick all evening...like I 'blew it'..which I didnt, he has left me and is in a new R, doesnt look like he plans to break up with her.. but then, I could have kept quiet and wished him a happy holiday..I remember now, the convo started with me saying we hadnt spoken since last week and that was hard, as he had been very upset.. which is valid. He did remember, but he looked unsure as in, didnt want to be reminded I think. He knew he had spilled ?

But it spiralled down and I blew a chance of friendship, as he was saying I guess, that he cant see me now..despite missing me. Its inevitable hey, I lost. She has won. And he was so handsome and more grown up and charming and great company, I felt jealous in the car, thinking, she gets the benefit of all this...

PS: SORRY for long posts...lastly, I did do a good job for most of the jounrey, made him laugh here and there, chatted animatedly about my job and music and things in the news and was confident and it was all fine, he was like his old self with me.. plus I listened and validated alot about his family/work...we enjoyed the CDs...it got harder as we got near to home and then I lost it in the last 2 miles, like I said. So, it wasnt all bad and I enjoyed his company, guess he enjoyed mine if he said again "I love talking to you".

(((((((Ali)))))))

Well, that might not have been the best plan!

I think the situation is pretty clear. He has feelings for you, maybe even pretty strong ones. He is very depressed. He does not like to hurt anyone, so even if he wants to break off with Helen, he can't. And he feels enormous guilt over what has happened with you, both in your original breakup, and in the past few months.

I think that this is totally and completely about him. He has to heal, and there's not much you can do about it. I think that putting any more pressure on him probably hurts both of you, it feeds his guilt, and that feeds his depression.

Ali, I think you have to let go! He may come back, but it is going to be in his time, and that might be a while.

((((((((Ali))))))))

Dearest A,

I am really glad that you did such a good job until you were almost there!!!

I'm sorry to hear about what happened at the end. I don't think you blew it, I mean I definitely think you will get to see him again and talk to him again. But it doesn't seem like that part of the conversation helped either of you that much. I am confused... is it really that hard for you to keep from getting upset in front of him? Do you want to get emotional in front of him so that he might open up to you? Is it because you feel like you have a right to show him how you really feel, even if it might make him feel really guilty and drive him away?

It does seem that sometimes in your situation when the two of you get into an R talk it does help... and it seems obvious that he at certain points has been very eager to discuss with you. But if there's a pattern that I can see, it's that the R talks initiated by HIM seem to work, but the R talks initiated by you (if we include getting upset sort of moments like this one) don't help so much.

What do you think?

One thing that I noticed reminded me of myself. I think you put a lot of pressure on yourself at the end of the ride and also a lot of pressure on him. But you don't need to do that! It's not the Last Chance Forever to communicate what you need to communicate to him! So if you do drive back with him after this weekend, the closer you get to your place, keep repeating to yourself, "I don't need to stress out about the ride being almost over. I can stay calm and relaxed and fun. I will have more opportunities in the future to talk with the man I love. Even if they do not occur when I want, this is just one moment with him and there will be more in the future." Then you can avoid the end-of-ride-drama!!

I hope you have LOTS of fun this weekend!!!

big hugs to ye,
T

Ali, I don't think you blew it either. Chin up, now!!

I agree, he just doesn't know what he wants & doesn't want to hurt anyone. Currently, he has no clue of the path he wants or needs to take, he's just stuck there out in the forest. (For some reason The Wizard of Oz, just popped into my head). Do you think you have confirmed a cheeseless tunnel? You need to show him that he doesn't control your happiness. I think that would be a huge weight off his shoulders.

I too, find myself going into snipets of R talk. And I know, it's my bad & I must stop it if I want a real babystep forward. So you are not alone.

Detach, detach, detach. I totally understand how difficult it is, but you need to do it. Stay strong & yes, have a fun weekend!

Hi Ali,

This was a really intense and rough experience for you to go through. It's hard to sustain those conversations together when so much emotion is boiling just beneath the surface, isn't it? It felt like maybe there was some way to reach out, to touch him by sharing your feelings and where you were at. I think Jeff really captured it in his post to you; your guy doesn't know where he's at...he's not emotionally in a place of being able to give to you--even if part of him wants to!

It is so tough, Ali, so brutally tough. BUT, I don't think there is any shame in you sharing where you were at...you know, you made a choice about how to handle a difficult situation and did the best you could. Don't be hard on yourself about this.

Your approach to connecting and wanting to have dialogue is so NORMAL, but you are in a situation with another person who is in a very conflicted and largely disconnected place emotionally. I think he has a very difficult time with his own emotions right now, and for that reason also struggles when he sees someone else's upset.

I'm not sure what OW has "won"; your guy seems like a caring and charming man, but I don't see that he has a great deal to offer anyone at this particular time, do you? The awfulness of it all is that he may be needing some room to be able to sort this crap and mess out. He doesn't know how to get out of it; he knows how much he has hurt you, and he doesn't want you to hurt. On the other hand, he has a whole lot of stuff going on (much of which sounds like it has nothing to do with you, BTW) inside that gets in the way of him being able to be open and engage. All he knows right now is about touching on feelings and then disengaging. I believe he feels there is no comfortable place--guilt or running from guilt.

Also, this isn't about the last contact you'll ever have. It just may be signalling that right now, more space is needed. I know that is very, very disappointing and hurtful and frustrating.

Hang on, Ali. We are here for you!!

Purr

Hi Ali,

No it wasn't a great interaction, but these things happen and you shouldn't beat yourself up. You haven't blown your chance for friendship IMO. Are you getting a ride back with him too? Just, and I know this is easier said than done, take this next opportunity to show him your calm, collected self. I wouldn't apologize or bring things up again. Just show him that that was a once-off thing.

Also don't assume that OW has "won". You still know that all signs point to her just being a bandaid. Be what she is not, the calm, collected person who he can really talk to. He said he loves talking to you. This is what my H said too before things improved. It's a way to friendship, and if this is going to eventually workout for you, I think you have to start with that.

I know it's a tall order, but can you have some fun this weekend? If nothing else think about how it will give you something to talk about in the car with your ex...

Thinking of you,
ITH

Hey Al,

How are you today? I think overall the interaction sounds like it was good, except for the teeny backslide at the end. Don't beat yourself up about it- everyone backslides sometimes and it's never the end of the journey.

I (like ITH) hope you have some fun stuff planned for this weekend. Try not to think about what happened with BF (I kow it's hard).

I liked T's questions about whether the R talk was something that would be difficult to avoid in the future. I know you felt as though having a talk would help you move on previously, but reading your post I'm not sure if it really did help at all. It sounds as though BF can't handle dealing with you being upset, or trying to reassure you. I guess the lesson is no more R talks initiated by you....

What I would say is that whatever happened it doesn't mean the OW has won. This isn't a competition situation where BF is the prize that one or the other of you get to win. You know he's having a hard time at the moment, and that he's in an MLC. Try to remember that- with time and patience on your part he'll get through the tunnel. The question is whether you can put your needs on hold for long enough to allow him to make his journey.

Hope you're OK, anyway.

L. xx

Ali,

The advice you have gotten from everyone so far has been exceptionally good and I don't really have anything else to add other than (((((((((((((((((Ali))))))))))))))))))))).

Please have fun this weekend. Don't let one bad interaction with BF undermine your happiness. You are home! You are surrounded by the people who love you! Absorb that love and use it for your strength. You are such a beautiful, lovely woman Ali. Let it shine through and it will overcome everything!

Take care sweetie!

Hey everyone, thankyou sooooo much...thanks for reading all that! I'll update you in a min.

Jeff - Yes, it really struck me how guilty he feels! The "I just want you to be happy" freaked me out. He kept saying, its ok and its alright and dont be silly and all kinds of reassuring noises (as usual). My Mum said, the most telling thing he said was "I dont really know what I'm doing Al, I dont know what I'm about".. she said, he is not being very clear, woolley, but yes, he is with her. My Mum doesnt think he's in love with her, but like yuo say, he doesnt want to hurt her now either! I think it may have caused trouble, driving me home.

T - Thing is I DIDNT get upset! I think he is talking about himself a bit (projecting) when he keeps saying sorry for upsetting me, it upsets you so much to see me. I wasnt tearful, he was! No, defo dont think I should, or have the right, it happened, first time all year!.. I couldnt stand the pretence/mask wearing anymore, but it was like drowning.. fighting ineffectually for safe ground. I was talking about last week and that it was worrying for me and thats what triggered it all. I think I will definetly speak to him again, yes!!

MrsM.. I guess I had assumed he DOES know what he wants (her now).. but maybe he is not so happy with her. He doesnt look happy and his exczema is now really bad on his hands/arms. I thikn I do have to let him go, altogether. Its upsetting us both now, sad hey.

Hi Purr.. I agree with you, I had to say SOMETHING. I didnt handle it well, but it was time and I am glad I let him know I still love him (when I said "because of how I feel"). I wanted to try and connect, not just accept the ow and act like I dont mind. It isnt fair though, that he led me on till August and then started dating her. Its been so tough for me. But he is so kind and caring, yes, he is a good catch for her! Damn.

ITH - no, I'm back Monday and hes away till next Saturday from today with 5 other guys. He was impressed with me meeting up with old friends on FB from school (so unlike me) and my job stuff. He also got upset when I told him my BFF Hs Dad is dying soon, it really affected him, I knew it would.

Lisa - its strange how he offered to talk when he is back, I couldnt believe that. I was also shocked when he announced "I miss you, I love talking to you Al".. as that was unprompted by me. He also didnt say anything concrete about himself, or her, the whole talk, so that confuses me. But yes, I have to step back now. Also.. back to the point I made to T.. I didnt initiate the talk last Tuesday and he was way more upset and cried more than me. He was teary last night. So its in him isnt it, theres still an emotional connection??

Thanks for the hugs Mihka, everyone. Am seeing old friends later...

So...back to me. I was upset last night, I told it all to my Mum, who made more sense of it. HE was the one that started the "are you ok?" and are you sure.. he asked me like 4 times. My Mum said, why did he keep doing that to you? Its a bit unfair.. I was ok! I wasnt tearful at all (he was teary), I was a bit quiet when he said no to the drink...in the end, as he kept asking me, I said, well are YOU ok?? And thats what started the convo about last Tuesday. He was happy to pull into the layby and to hug.

So, my Mum also said, why is he so emotional with you? Yes he is gone and with her, but he doesnt seem to be able to let go of you either. He's very woolley.

I had meant to say the "I love you, if you are happy with her, then I will leave you to it, but the door is always open" speech..but it came out all wrong! My Mum said, but he told you he'd talk to you when he got back.. so just send him a light text to diffuse what happened.

He was out with his brother, so I texted him at 10pm along the lines...Hope you have a good holiday and get to relax. Didnt mean to get emotional, but I am ok, thanks for driving me back, I enjoyed the chat and average cd's!

So... wasnt expecting a response and didnt get one last night. Glad I did it though.

Then this morning, he texted me at 8.30 am ! (when he got up)...

Hi Al, tried to reply to you last night, but this fancy dan phone ran out of fancy dan battery. Have a good weekend, I hope BFF and H are ok. I am thinking of H. Speak when I'm back. *Name*

...so yet again, a little hook, reeling my hope back in, to text me, like my Mum said, when he first got up, you were on his mind. Or.. is he just being nice. So.. knew my BFF H's dad thing would get to him, he is thikning of him, but also, of himself (and empathising no doubt) and he has gone off on holiday thinking about this guys Dad dying by Christmas. I'm off to see them myself now...

Ali,

I'm sorry I was away, but now that I'm caught up I do want to say that you've blown nothing and this isn't something where you've "lost" and she's "won." This isn't a contest b/c if it were, there would be fair and objective rules that you could follow. There are no rules here. Besides, if you did actually "lose" that would mean that you are the one to blame for his behavior. Remember you have zero control over what he does/doesn't do, so you can't accept the blame for his actions.

I'm also still concerned by your assuming and I do hope you will be able to meet up again soon so you can tell him you love him, but will let him go free. It sounds as if that is the step you really need to take here so you can let yourself go. It seems as if you are the one who really needs to be freed from this, but as long as you are assuming and guessing what his actions mean or don't mean then you're still tied up in knots.

Closure will be better for you than for him. It will allow you to move forward w/ everything off your chest. Once you can truly let him go, then you'll be able to move through the proper phases to get you moving again.

I myself just finally understood that getting a life is for me and me alone. I've been allowing myself to be held back by me until just recently and it has been incredibly freeing to be able to look forward for myself.

Enjoy the rest of your time w/ your family and friends. I hate seeing you in such pain, my dear and I can only pray it will be sooner rather than later that you'll be able to move out of this and on to "Ali time."

RTL

Hey RTL! Thanks for your concern! I think he got what I meant, when I said, I'm such a fool, you must think me an idiot for all this, for how I feel.. I think it was obvious! I am glad I said it, I dont regret it.

So tonight I saw another good friend of 10 years.. the wife of my ex's oldest BMF. We had a great evening. She told me they havent seen my ex since he came home last in August, that she didnt know anything that could help me (I didnt ask!) and that she felt sorry for her H as he doesnt speak to my ex much anymore...

She said he textd her H last night to say he was out drinking in town.. that his BMF turned to her disgusted and said, is he ever going to grow up? That she hoped H and him would have time for some heart to hearts on holiday, she thinks my ex is very screwed up - he's 35 and acting like he's in his early twenties and whats he playing at? I didnt get a strong impression she knew about helen, nor did I mention it (not my place).

..so he has been seeing her 3 months, but he hasnt been home in all that time, nor with her. I met this BMF and W on our first date.. my ex was so excited to go public and wanted me to meet ALL his friends.. I met the whole gang, date 1. So.. I just felt a bit vindicated and pleased by this news!!! Silly I know.

Ali,

Nothing silly about it--it's validating to see other people's experiences and reactions toward him, because it verifies that so much of this is about him. My experience with my ex (don't like that term!) is that even though I want good things for her, in another way I want to hear about life being bad / stressful / not a bed of roses / etc. Perhaps it is not very mature, but that's how I feel at this point. That may or may not fit your experience though!

Great to hear that you have been keeping up social connections with others! This is something you've been really good at, Ali. Keep it up!

Purr

Al,
I wasnt much around yestreday but I am reading. Will post tonight. I wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.
K

Hey, Ali!

Just checking in w/ you to see how you are doing.

Hope you are feeling good on this Monday.

RTL

Hey guys... so had a brilliant weekend, everyone was so warm and welcoming to me. Strange to get such a depth of emotion from my friends...his BMF W and his brother and SIL, but but not get that from my ex. I felt unsure about going round to B & SIL, but it was all fine and they were very pleased to see me.

My BMF looked after my cat.. I went and got my key back, we had an in depth convo.. He is 37, and said he felt powerless and in purgatory (as I do!) and he is in MLC! But that he is conciously aware of it and has chosen NOT to go down the cliched MLC route (do what my ex has done), but it is very hard, that he is suffering and it is a burden on him... but he collects his family next week from Japan.

I just said he should be proud of himself for deciding to not give in to the MLC cliche and that that was admirable. But he misses his kids terribly, if it wasnt for them, I know he would leave his W.

He is sensible and is not going to jeapodise his M, but he said that his main problem is that he is very concious of his age and that he has lost his youth and he misses being young.. that it is a big struggle now to stay in the committed sitch he is in. Mind of a MLCer hey. I talked about it being harder if you have a unsteady foundation.. this made him think. He had D parents, violent step-dad, he was smoking at 9 and drinking alchohol at 11..and had a breakdown at 23. so another one of those men with childhood issues.

...
I told him my ex said he missed me..BMF said, thats normally something you say preceeding a..."and I want to try again".. but I said, it hadnt seemed delivered in that context. But good point. Neither me or BMF had told an ex we missed them, but the one we did miss, we wanted to get back with! ho hum.

Hey, Princess!

The insight from your BMF may be spot on, but try not to kill yourself w/ speculation and wonder. It has really torn you up in the past, love.

For now, it seems as if you have to just keep moving yourself forward and see how BF reacts. I wish he'd be more forthcoming and direct w/ you, but I'm afraid that w/ the depth of his issues, that would be nearly impossible for him.

I'm glad you had a super weekend. You seem to be able to get out and enjoy life quite frequently these days. Good for you!

RTL

Hi Ali,

I'm glad to hear you had a good weekend. Good for you to be surrounding yourself with some warmth and people who care about you and accept you for who you are. Interesting talk with the BMF about MLC stuff...you sound good overall.

p.s. I just recently started listening to a little bit of Radiohead--I came across it and remembered you referred to it quite a bit. It's starting to grow on me!

Hey Purr.. I am listening to Radiohead now, go easy on it if you are having a down day though!
Rob, thanks for stopping by again...I wish he would be more open too !!!

Had a first C appt at the docs. She was amazing, it was pyschotherapy. I said my main problems were lack of understanding and it had left me feeling like there is something wrong with me or I did something wrong.

She said you did nothing wrong, it is him. He sounds like he has crushingly low self-esteem, that he is desperate for love and approval and probably lies to his therapist, as he just wants to be viewed in a good light. I said its perverse then that he rejected me, who loved and accepted him most. She said it was typical, he is clearly still functioning but is behaving destructively in R's and that his new R is a form of self-harm and punishment...he chose someone not worthy, although he wants love and approval, his low self-esteem doesnt feel he deserves better. The fact he wears the full front to her means she will not know the real him.

She said he has behaved in a controlling and manipulative way this past year and needed ultimate power and that he doesnt seem to want to allow me to let go of him. Hmm, thats what I think!

Hey Al,
DBing is also doing what works. Changing what doesnt. What have you changed in relation to him? You know what I mean. In your interactions, phone calls, etc etc.
Trying to help you to think outside of the box... (of any box, DBing box, self pity box, etc etc)... What havent you done?
Love always
K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymeoUU1mejc&feature=related

Ali, I thought of you listening to this song tonight...
BTW, she is "yours" and I really like her...

Thanks K! Lovely...when that came out.. I thought, thats like me! I guess I look a bit 'girlish', not your average 37 year old and I do like to cycle about in a daydream! And the message of it too...

So.. more positive vibes at me..my ex's Cornish BMF GF emailed me on FB to say he had proposed to her! She only just back off holiday then emailed to tell me, so I was very touched...she must like me alot! Wierd, guess there will be a party/celebration.. will they invite us both !? (and Helen).

So K..I was thinking the same as in your post there..what do you suggest? I was thinking of delaying replies now, or being less responsive (showing him I let him go, be happy) but then, he said we would talk when he got back, so it would be too tempting to not take up that opportunity.

Thoughts anyone.. what can I do differently now!?

Ali:

Glad you had a fabulous weekend! Sorry the end of the trip up ended the way it did...I know what a difficult spot you were in and how hard it is to "cope" when they are right there in front of you! I've found that the detaching, even though it is very hard, is the best defense for me. I have gotten to where I can detach myself emotionally when H and I get into the R talks...guilt seems to drive my H into exploring my feelings, but when I express my feelings, he doesn't accept them very well...so now, I just agree with what he says or sit silently and listen...it's hard....but it seems to help me cope in difficult situations. I agree with your mom....I think BF is having a hard time letting you go....he's in limboland so to speak...he needs time, he needs to explore himself and figure out who he is and what he really wants...what is really important.....
Hang in there...keep yourself occupied, be happy, live life....either way, you are the winner!

((((((Ali)))))))
BA

Hey BA.. yes, thats true.. I felt like I had my brain disengaged and couldnt think straight AT ALL when talking to him in the car. I guess I expressed how I feel more than I had done all this year! And he looked like he couldnt take it. Interesting your H also tries to 'get things out of you' but then cant handle the answer!

I feel sad that he said sorry, I was drunk last Tuesday. At that moment, I felt he was now wearing a mask to me, so something must have shifted for him and him and her between that Tuesday showdown with me and this Friday. The fact he said "I said I would drive you home though" in a slightly frustrated voice implied to me she had not been happy about it and perhaps they had had words about me.

So, feeling like he is gone. Seeing his brother and pregnant SIL.. and his BMF G getting engaged (after 11 months together) and gf (lets call her Cher from now on!) emailing me so excited makes me sad. It should have been me and him. Really not sure what I can do differently, but I'd welcome suggestons ?! At least I dont cry over him anymore, I cried for just over a year...

Well, I think your BF has a lot to process & you should just go dim/dark for a bit. What about a 180 that involves controlling your own happiness.

A 180 - for me that would be to be a total b**ch to my H. Not that I would - but a rather funny 180 I think!

Ali,

I LOVE what your C said! I think she's spot on, my dear. I hope you will be able to learn from her knowledge and she'll be able to help you understand this whole mess better.

Also, I agree w/ what Kalni said about DBing and wanted to chime in b/c I know you've become frustrated w/DBing at times. Remember, DBing is about change really... and change is a good thing for us all.

As for my stopping by, I'm kind of like a virus. I may go dormant, but I'll show up again and again. You won't be able to get rid of me dear! $\:\)$

RTL

Hmm.. seems he is going dim on me, with his comments that he doesnt want to upset me anymore, he cant stand it, that it upsets me to see him. I thought I did a great job of hiding it most of the time too!

I dont think I can speak to him/see him. He's chosen to be with someone else and really hurt me. I dont know how some of us manage it.. keep seeing their ex whilst they are with someone else, I find it so heartbreaking. Perhaps its practice (I've only seen him twice since I found out). Maybe its time.

My ex bestest friend contacted me on FB yesterday. She just moved back to my hometown, so we will meet up. FB is a wondorous thing! So much has changed for me, not all bad. Why did I have to lose so many precious things though (my career, my cat, my bf and future with him) in order for the good stuff to happen?

(((Ali)))

Just stopping by... I often wonder that same thing, I have no answer other than I try to look at it as the other good stuff is still good, just different. None of the new good stuff compares with losing my h but those partners don't seem to be the ones we had back then anyway, if that makes any sense.

Hey Julia.. yes, my ex is still the man I knew, but he has changed (as I have).

So his Cornish BMF gf ('Cher!') has invited me out with them Saturday night for engagement drinks! I'm really touched, its like I am accepted into the inner sanctum or something with a Saturday night invite!

She asked about my ex and when I told her about the drive, she strongly felt that its not a good sign for his new R to spend time with me and say that he missed them, is more than a passing, hi, how are you doing?

I do know he still cares about me, but theres a difference between loving someone and being in love with them isnt there.

((((Al)))))

Great news on the Saturday evening invitation.

I was a bit confused earlier on whether you wanted to try something different on BF or not...... I guess if you did want to do something different then backing off contact with him and only responding in a short and direct way might be a bit different. What do you think?

I also think, though, that if BF is depressed and in MLC then doing something different isn't going to speed his journey up. The only thing you can do is to let him make his own way and focus on yourself while he does so. I think MWD says words to that effect in the MLC chapter in DR. Just a thought, anyway.

Hope you're having a good evening,

L. xx

I'm with Lisa on the 180 for you. If he contacts you then be only businesslike with him. Not hurt sounding, but not your usual jokey, fun self either. He doesn't deserve that Ali anymore. He would have to earn right to benefit from your personality and frankly he just isn't doing that right now. It could be enough to cause him to think more about the havoc he has caused. It might not also, but I don't believe it could hurt to try.

I think BF's depression is driving him right now. He needs to get a handle on his life. So many depressed people can hardly function until they have that under control. Maybe he will go back to the doctor for different meds (is he even taking any?)...sometimes it takes awhile for the right combination to work?!

Enjoy Saturday night! Thinking of you!

BA

Hey girls..thanks for helping! but is that conflicting advice? Eek!
Mishka.. the "he doesnt deserve that" could be applied to alot of WAS here and is perhaps a cut-your-nose-of kind of thing?? If I didnt want him back, then yes, I could put that boundary there. I feel ashamed to admit this almost, but I DO still want him back! I was considering being a little shorter with him though...

Lisa, you make a good point.. that as he is depressed and if he is in MLC (and my ex is like an MLC poster boy!).. then it wouldnt make a difference. And someone here (was it Appleroad?) said MLCers need kind, consistency... reassurance. So just keep being there, keep being his friend? Thats not a 180 though!

Hey BA.. yes he is very depressed! And back on ADs after coming off them sometime Sep/Oct and then nosediving badly as he said. He didnt look good on Friday, he had tears in his eyes. I'l have to wait and see if he contacts me I guess. He didnt say much Friday, but his most signifcant statements were:

- I miss you, I love talking to you
- I cant stand to upset you anymore, seeing me upsets you and I've upset you enough already
- its awkward (contact with me), it puts me in an awkward position
- I just want you to be happy Al, I want you to be happy
- I dont really know what I'm doing, what I am about
- I find it hard to talk... we'll talk when I get back

hmmm...clear as mud. But whilst he's still with her, we stand zero chance? Roll on Saturday drinks anyway!!

Hi ((Ali)), I agree with the others!! As I have said before start making & control your own happiness! That is where you start. $\:\)$ Let this begin on Saturday night. FORGET about ow - she is controlling your happiness too, not just your bf.

Do a 180 on your H - no R talks, don't get sucked in if it happens again. Think of something to say in preparation, to defuse it. Push through the sadness & pain & get back to the person you once were that your bf was drawn too. Let his friends see this too.

You & I know where R talks have gotten us. We are like a dogs chasing our tails in circles. $;\)$

PS. I'm taking Julia's lead, see my last thread if interested in a short read.

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

yes he is very depressed! And back on ADs after coming off them sometime Sep/Oct and then nosediving badly as he said. He didnt look good on Friday, he had tears in his eyes.

Hi, Ali,
I don't have a whole lot to say (just put two *massive* posts on my thread), but I wanted to let you know I'm reading along and thinking of you. I'm not posting very much right now, as I just don't have the energy, but I do catch up with everyone periodically, and yours is one of the first threads I check.

I would venture to guess that if he was off ADs in Oct, he probably hasn't had time for them to start working again yet (the crash is MUCH faster than the liftoff with ADs--3 days vs. 6 weeks, roughly).

Take care of yourself; thinking of you!

Peace,
Dawn

Hey MrsM...A 180 could be to just be busy and happy! I am thrilled that invites are trickling in now....its not concrete yet, but its beginning to take shape. Makes me sad...a new life but, without him to share it.

Dawn.. Thankyou SO much for posting to me. Thats interesting what you said about 3 days to nosedive as he did look shocked when he told me. I dont know when he went back on the ADs thugh?

Got more emails from Cher today, I am like her New Best Friend! She asked what I was doing NYEve, but not invited me yet. I'd love to spend it with her and bf G (and I bet Luke Skywalker will be there! ha). I felt bad, as in muscling in on my ex's BMF G..? but they woulndt invite him anyway as they cant stand helen!

She said she stands by what she said, that theres nothing about helen thats better than me in any way and she cant see it lasting with her. She is just so obviously young, that she thinks he was lured for that reason - just the attraction of a younger woman. Funny, I didnt look at it that way, but then I havent met her.

((((((Ali))))))))

It is sad. But it is what has to happen for you right now.

Keep taking care of you.

Hang in there. $\:\)$

Ali, did you throw out the dictaphone yet? Go with the invites, obviously someone sees something that makes them want you around. Listen, don't be ashamed of wanting him back. But it has been a long time already and it could be a lot longer before it may be different. If you just hang around waiting and analyzing, guess what, YOUR life will pass you by.

Live, have fun, doens't mean you have to jump right into a R or anything but get out of the house and out of your head. Just be. If it is meant for him to return, he will.

Hey girls.. yes, it has been a long time already.. do you mean, TOO long? I feel a bit of an idiot for still being in love with him. But, its still there, that connection, I loved being in the car chatting to him Friday.

I am going out tonight with a bunch of 21 year olds! My (MLCer) BMF said to them he doesnt want to come as it makes him feel old and he has ignored my calls. I feel strangely hurt (I dont mean like that, he's M!!).. but it makes me realise I am vunerable to rejection of any kind, so I defo cant date yet.

I feel kind of excitable, let out of the box...and yes, I am noticing that people like having me around. I didnt expect that. My pride wants my ex to notice too, but I doubt that he will.

Ali,

Good for you for going out and good for you for realizing your limitations on being hurt right now.

Keep working on yourself and you'll continue to learn, grow and change...and we'll all still be here too. $\:\)$

As for BF, it is so sad to see where he is b/c he's so lost. So very, very lost. He's a long, long term reclamation project, I'm afraid and I don't see you being there as a partner for him once he does figure it out.

The hole he is in is so very deep and he wouldn't know how to use the ladder to climb out of it right now if you provided it for him.

Hang in there and keep having fun!

RTL

Ha, you're funny Rob.. "He's a long, long term reclamation project" thats funny.

So, went to a traditional pub and played cards, with two 21 year olds and a 23 year old (sigh!). The 23 yrold intrigues me. Seems he was intrigued by me too (you can tell right)... also he's a Leo! Me and Leo men.

I felt angry at my ex tonight...because I gave him the best years of my life (27-37) and then to end it, without letting me in on the decision process, with no trying, no MC. Its been very damaging for me, so I think alone is best right now. I thikn meeting someone decent, at this age, is a longshot (not impossible).

Originally Posted By: AliSuddenly

I felt angry at my ex tonight...because I gave him the best years of my life (27-37) and then to end it, without letting me in on the decision process, with no trying, no MC. Its been very damaging for me, so I think alone is best right now. I thikn meeting someone decent, at this age, is a longshot (not impossible).

You've got lots of good years ahead of you, Ali! And I sure hope that meeting someone decent isn't along shot at your young age! $;\)$

Hi Ali, I still read now and again!
This made me smile and also want to lay down and die! lol

Quote:

...because I gave him the best years of my life (27-37) and then to end it, without letting me in on the decision process, with no trying, no MC. Its been very damaging for me, so I think alone is best right now. I thikn meeting someone decent, at this age, is a longshot (not impossible).

At my ripe old age. I guess my chance is nil, yet my heart and head haven't really grasped that.
Enjoy your week end.

Hey Naej... I meant best years as in... settling down, kids, ovarian wise! That doesnt apply to you (!!?) you already had your family. Its probably too late for me (my Nan was menopausal at 39 and my Mum 41).

I acutally think it is easier to meet someone at your age.. its so much easier to join rambling clubs, bridge, SAGA days out, bowling, or if you are young for your age (like my parents) your kids are grown, so you can go out socialising every weekend, if you joined up with some like minded woman. I notice as you post around the boards that you are quite down on yourself, age wise..My Mums friend just met and M someone, she was 60 and the guy 65...

Reading what you wrote about the age Ali, I wanted to die too... I seriously believe I am starting an MLC myself. Age and years etc etc are making me crazy...
K

Hey girls, I'm sorry I made you both sad. I guess I am feeling kind of.. washed up. Yep. I look young for my age, but its a constant downward slope now! (its not the same for guys Jeff.. my ex has got better looking and more manly with age). Plus, after a year of IC, I couldnt settle for someone who didnt have their sh*t together. I would take my ex back, as we have 12 years of history and whatever his issues are, I am fully versed in them! He doesnt feel as much of a lottery in fact, as some random new guy.

The age thing is not easy for me for two reasons.. I hadnt had children (and realistically its too late for me) and I am at college surrounded by 20-23 year olds. Its not good for me!

I'm glad I am going out tommorow, with Cher and my ex's BMf, but they are in the age group 26-29. Its ok, but then, that was the age span I started dating my ex and that feels like 15 lifetimes ago. I cant believe how much I've changed in the past 10 years. Its like the change between 8-18. Its huge.

(((Ali)))

I feel the same and I'm 27. I felt 'on the shelf' for most of last year but as you are discovering, the more you get out there, the more people you meet etc etc.

Ok girls, at 36 I have started menopause. Actually the doctor believes it started a few years ago already. Yes I do have S, and didn't want anymore, but it was still a hard blow to ego. Then I realized that I have way more in front of me. So I will say two things about that, if you are meant to have a child, you will, I got pregnant with S while on BC. My sis's third came while on the depo shot. So....Second, there are so MANY children in the world that need good loving families. My GF, tried for years spent thousands of dollars to get pregnant, to no avail. She adopted S and then when not trying actually got pregnant. Her sons are now 8 and 7. She has told me many times that there is no difference in how she feels for them. In fact, she has said she hated being pregnant and will never do that again, but she will adopt 10 more if she could. So don't rule anything out.

No Ali, i didn't mean too long. Only you can determine what is too long for you. And the still in love feeling, it is normal to have that feeling. Just because you may not be with someone doesn't mean you don't love them. But you do have to get to a point where you draw some sort of line in the sand so that you can live your life instead of sitting in a room pining away and becoming just as miserable as the person you are waiting for. I have learned that I can't waste my life away waiting for H to come around. I don't know when or if that will ever happen. But my happiness does not depend on him. I have to take responsibility for my actions and my life. And so do you.

Hey Julia...yes, it gets harder as you get older though..but, you never know I guess!

Hey Kel.. gosh I'm sorry to hear that. I had my hormones checked 3 times in 6 years and they seem ok at the moment. We did look into adoption in Cornwall (he even told his Mum, a few months before he withdrew from me) and I would have been very happy to do that. I wasnt up for being pregnant necessarily.

I'm struggling with this.. line in the sand/letting go/detaching. To me its all the same, its giving up and NOT loving them anymore and that makes me so sad. But, he's gone. The doc said I was moderately depressed and I am up and down. Cher said Sat night is probably cancelled, which knocked me back a bit. Silly really, but it was something to look forward to. I cant wait to be out of this phase of my life...

Hi Ali, yes I have had my children and now a g/child, so I am truly blest.
Grandparenting alone is not what I planned for though.
Not sure about easier, in fact no it's definately harder. Even moving alone at my age was so much harder. You just don't make the same friends as easily without children. School gates are a wonderful way to meet new folks.

Quote:

I acutally think it is easier to meet someone at your age.. its so much easier to join rambling clubs, bridge, SAGA days out, bowling, or if you are young for your age (like my parents) your kids are grown, so you can go out socialising every weekend, if you joined up with some like minded woman. I notice as you post around the boards that you are quite down on yourself, age wise..

I don't mean to have a down on myself age wise, I say it mostly in jest.
Also the financial implications of being D at my age after being a SAHM are huge, women D in my age bracket are notoriously hard hit,many living on the poverty line.
We tend to be a proud bunch and never spend what we don't have. Usually no morgage so no help there and no dependants so again no help. Our savings are earning less and less so we just keep on cutting back.Not having had a career as such also means no pension fund.
Note to all youngsters, please look after your own pension schemes!!!! very important.
I have to work now which is fine but its all female environment. I do yoga and dance classes, so not ready for bridge clubs or Saga holls, couldn't afford them if I wanted to. and often they are in the day.
I had my last child at 30 years and my D had her first at 32yrs. so time for you yet.
I hope you manage to go out this week end and your do doesn't get called off.

Hey Naej.. did you do that thing in the 70s (my Mum did).. where M woman were allowed to 'opt out' of NI payments, and be on their H's pension? Its a scandal.. my Mums pension was worth �1.75 a week, but she hastily made some overpayments. Guess you arent likely to meet men nless you go where men are!!

You had a child at 30 and your D 32.. presumably ALREADY in a long term R? I'm nearly 38 and single..

Had a cry driving home from Christmas shopping.. it was all those "To my beloved at Christmas" cards that did it. Last year I said I wanted to be ok by this Xmas. It astounds me how heartbroken I have been, but he's the only man I wanted to be with for life. This will all be a bad dream (I hope) one day.

I'm really sorry, anyone whose still reading (!) been a bit tired and fed up for a few days...

Yes Ali, similar. I actually paid Superannuation, which you could draw out and i did as newly m and broke. Then I never worked enough hours to pay a stamp. I looked into payin back/making it up but I was told it would not be worth it.
Yes my d met her H shortly after leaving uni but they didnt get m until she was 31.Careers come first these days.
I hear you on the C,cards. I avoid looking, mind you I use to laugh at all the mushy b,day cards too and wondered who had the "perfect" H. I loved mine dearly but he was never perfect!
You have to learn to be comfortable with who you are, really like yourself, be proud of what you stand for.Have firm beliefs and strengths before you can hope for a loving balanced LTR.
I was with my H for over 40 years and I cannot tell you how hard it was for me to be alone or how much every breath I took made me so sad that I was still breathing.It isn't easy believe me, but we can't always have what we want no matter how much we love or pray or cry or whatever else we do.
There comes aday when you just have to let go and live for you with absolutely no expectations of what the future will be.
Your x or any man to come will not make you complete you have to do that for yourself. Life is such a gift and each day will never come again.
Yes I have my children but I cannot live my life either through them or for them although initially they were the reason I clung to life,but they have their own lives and I would hate for them to have to consider "mums alone" when making their choices.
Soooooooooooo what plans for the week end?

Hey Naej.. my Mum overpaid... she raised her state pension from �1.75 to �35 a week now! Travesty. I hear you on the letting go. I looked at something in my chart today which made me feel a little better.. its always been there.. its the South Node (the tail of the dragon) in my 7th house (1:1 R's).. this is a life quest to NOT get into, or stay in, unhealthy R's.. which I had done before my ex. Lessons, all lessons.

So today I went and bought nice C cards for my family members, becuase Mishka suggested I should! Thanks Mish! Everyone deserves my love and thanks for carrying me for a year! I also bought new makeup and clothes, because I can (I have no idea what I am spending or where it is coming from!)

So, I am out overnight with Cher and ex's BMF and gang.. I think Luke Skywalker is going too, so I will try a little flirting! I may even go wild and buy him a drink.. $;\)$ My ex is back tommorow...(feel a bit nervous)

Good for you Ali! Glad the suggestion was helpful. I need to go do the same. $\:\)$

Have a wonderful time tonight, flirt your cute little pixie butt off and just let loose (but don't be loose! LOL!)

Hope your having a great night out, looking hot and flirting for fun!

Couldn't your mum get her pension on your dads NI contributions? Not sure if they are still together tho.

"My ex is back tommorow...(feel a bit nervous)" Why, no don't tell me. Get that rubber band on your wrist and twang it every time your mind wanders in that direction.

((((Ali))))

I hope you're flirting too- and not just for fun but with intention $;\)$ (jk)

Hope you've had a good night,

L. xx

"... if BF is depressed and in MLC then doing something different isn't going to speed his journey up. The only thing you can do is to let him make his own way and focus on yourself while he does so. I think MWD says words to that effect in the MLC chapter in DR. Just a thought, anyway."

Sigh...I'll take this bit of advice (for myself) once again and roost on it!

Hope you are having a good night out and it provides a bit of distraction. I think it's a tough time of year too, Ali. Our timelines are very similar in terms of this being somewhat connected with an anniversary date of being left. And on top of that, the Christmas season songs and holiday season stuff everywhere is a little like having one's face rubbed in it. We feel the absence of those missing in our lives even more during these kinds of occasions.

Hey Purr.. thankyou for your understanding, as usual, you sound like the voice in my own head!

Girls.. Luke wasnt there..and I was out with 2 26 year olds, 2 21 year olds and a 29 year old. I felt about 97. I look young for my age and one person was shocked when I said I was 37! I chatted and laughed, but I wasnt sure it was worth the hollow feeling it gave me. But then this morning I had a lovely chat with Cher for several hours, shes wise for her years. She came home from school one day when she was 15 and her alchoholic mother had emigrated without telling her. Her Dads new W wouldnt let her go stay either. Wow. I didnt know what to say (although I've heard bits before). And I think I have reason to be depressed.

I am nervous about him coming back because of how it makes me feel.. I cant ignore it now, he's back, nearby, but NOT contacting me. And dating someone else. And its just hard to swallow.

Hey Ali,

Even though on the one hand I think it is ridiculous to think of yourself as "old", on the other hand, I can certainly relate to what you've shared here! It's probably because it was 8-10 years ago when you or I were last "on the market" so to speak. Most of my peers are married and/or have children...most are still married. I feel rather unsure where I belong socially...

I think I know that hollow feeling, sort of like going through the motions a bit, as though things should perhaps feel better than they do.

Well, good for you for getting out there and having some social contact!

Purr

Ali, hang in there. You are smart, funny, and just overall great. Detatching is hard, but it is necessary for you. For all of us or we arent just passengers on the rollercoaster, we become the assistant conductors and i don't think that helps them at all. They have to navigate it themselves. So relax and have a good day.

Hey Purr.. I live in a sparsely populated area, of lots of young and old people and those in the middle are a bit thin on the ground (and yes, M with children). I was actually last 'on the market' when I was 24...thats when I dated my last ex.. I became friends with this ex from before him, and so we went straight into an R, when I was 27 and both of us then single. So.. 1ts been nearly 14 years since I have dated!!! How Saturnian.

Kel - thankyou for your kind words! Funny what you said, we are the conductors. If I am so great though, WHY DID HE LEAVE!? Its that value thing..am I not a thing of value? Did he not value what he had? It has left me feeling 'disposable', like a razor. One for the pyschotherapist today, maybe she can help with that.

(((Ali)))

I just wanted to say thank you sooooo much for the finance info. I called the mortgage people yesterday and managed to ask some pertinent questions and am armed with some good info now.

Hope your session goes well and I just wanted to say thank you for looking out for me $\:\)$

Good Morning!!
Thanks for last night,
xxx
M

Your welcome Julia! Dont let him drag you down.. as they say in Grease, the movie "Give em hell, Rydell!"

hey M...you're welcome too and thanks also! I had a call from my BMF first thing.. I will post later, but for once.. I am angry! Funny how its always the ones you DONT want ey... Ok..stars for the week:

Pisces - The Week Ahead - 8th December - 14th December
In early November Saturn and Uranus combined to change a long-standing pattern of life yet it may have taken up until now for you to understand quite what this involves. Change and the unexpected come with Uranus so even in a minor way there will be surprises this week but if you have been waiting for a signal to make a radical move, here it comes. These influences are not so much a breath of fresh air as a force ten gale so anything not nailed down within an inch of its life could come adrift. Therefore handle with kid gloves people you need on your side and if you've well and truly finished with someone, enjoy giving them their marching orders. Endings and beginnings.

Heres another one, from the excellent Micheal Lutin: 8-15 Dec
It's got to be more than just a little uncomfortable to realize that the person you have dedicated yourself to cannot, has not and probably will not reciprocate in kind. You can't seem to get rid of them no matter what distant planet they are living on. Don't take it personally. Don't be a jerk either. Negotiate your way out of the deal, but you'll need patience. And maybe even a lawyer.

Ok...here is another (they are all sounding the same!)

December 8-14: You're so ready to be the boss of your own happiness and private life. You've sacrificed what was important and satisfying to you in order to please another. This has continued for ages, and isn't working for you anymore. You can no longer be obedient and responsive to someone you don't respect. You've stored frustrating disappointment in your emotional locker for too long. It's time to push forward, maybe haltingly at first, and make your happiness and satisfaction priority number one. Look - if you ever feel second-class or less than the person who is your friend or lover, you'd be better off on your own than shackled to someone that takes advantage of you. Just be honest with yourself.

.. I cant seem to find one that says any different! Any in Greece that have a different message!?

Al xxx