Hello, not feeling very inspired this morning... heres the last one
writing a novelWas woken up by lots of workmen this morning banging around and shouting outside my window. They were stringing Christmas lights from my house across the road. Sigh. My next thought was, this was the day a year ago he left. He had packed a bag the night before. We were still sharing a bed and we ML that night (about the best ever, funnily enough) he kissed me goodnight and we fell asleep curled up. When I woke up, he was gone.
x
Hi Ali, council workers working Sundays to put up lights.!
I,m sorry your sad.
Did you know he had his bag packed to leave before the ML?
"he kissed me goodnight and we fell asleep curled up. When I woke up, he was gone."
thats really awlful. Good to see the creep hasn't changed his spots, he's still a gutless wonder.
Ali, don't let this man rob you of another day. You deserve so much more.(I don't care how good he was in bed!)
Yes he was! We always did have a fantastic s* life until the day he left. Hmm. Dont think about it.
Yes, I knew his bag was packed. Not that night, but a night or two before, he had said, you do know this doesnt change anything/mean anything? He said he wanted to be fair and honest and I had assured him I wanted to ML as it was a comfort. So we did. But he didnt say anything like that that night.
Its really unfair, I am sad and missing him very much. I basically want him back (gutless creep is unfortunately not how I view him). I just see my best friend of 12 years, who was always so loving and supportive through so many things that I havent even posted about here. But that stopped when he transferred his limerance to someone else and now I assume he is being loving and kind to her instead.
Thanks Naej. Feeling very lonely today.
He sounded happier on the phone. Interesting to think, I wonder how HE would react if this R broke up, or she dumped him? Would he be ok? Would he cope as I have had to? Would he be able to fall back on his friends and inner resources? Or would he be in a terrible mess and depressed again? I wonder.
Oh Ali, I do know((()))).
I absolutely hated anyone to speak ill about my x, still do really. I am allowed to moan about him from time to time tho!
Wet Sundays are not the best when you have no plans and no one to share them with. I am in the same boat. I have been shopping tho, skipped church. I intended to collect the leaves but weather isn't nice.
My loved up son has gone up Northish so no need to cook Sunday lunch.
Have some painting to do as in undercoat-but no motivation and not feeling a 100%.
May make my Christmas lists--to do list,food, gifts,cards etc.
When I can't stand tripping over my dog anymore I shall don my wellies and take him out.
Have you any plans other than suporting Kleenex ?
Yes, I am going to rearrange my bedroom and spare room, swop them over today. Sort my clothes out. I dont need to be in a big double room anymore and its year today, so time to vacate 'our' bedroom. The other is just as nice, both have Victorian fireplaces, so thats cool! I am so blessed to be able to rent this beautiful house and still afford it a year after he left me, I have kept myself going. I am a bit sick of all my stuff though, it represents the past, the home I shared with him.
Funny as some of it dates from when I lievd with my previous ex and one or two things from when I loved with my first love! I've always been attached to 'my' things, but lately it all feels empty and annoying.
I just need to get another boyfriend. I give in. Love conquers all hey.
Naej, you will feel low.. you are having your 2nd 'Saturn Return'. Google it, it will explain it all.
Why doesnt he feel bad? Why have I had a year of misery and loneliness and he is ok? I never thought in a million years I would be in this position, we and our friends used to describe our R, as 'solid'. Hmm, even solid things have gaps between them and constantly move, if I remember my Physics O Level.
Yes Ali, moving on is good. That and taking care of self seems to be a really recurring theme aroung here lately. Have fun moving the furniture. It's time for a new adventure.
Yes, I am going to rearrange my bedroom and spare room, swop them over today. Sort my clothes out. I dont need to be in a big double room anymore and its year today, so time to vacate 'our' bedroom.
Soooooooooooooo, how much did you get done?
I have to get to work but just wanted to stop off and give you hugs.
((((((((Ali)))))))
I know this is a rough day for you. My bomb anniversary is coming up on 4DEC and I'm dreading it. Christmas is the worst though since I uncovered his A on Christmas Eve and Day he left the day after. Not even contemplating any of the holiday activities right now.
Hope you find good activities to keep you busy over the holidays.
How did the rooms come out?
((((Ali))))
I hope you've had a busy day sorting your room out. The anniversary is really tough and it's great that you've been busy.
L. xx
Hi kids...
Well, had tonnes of phonecalls. Wow, a year on and my RL freinds and family are right there with me. I worked hard all day!! I am absolutely knackered, lugging furniture from room to room. I dismantled one bed and reput together the metal one and moved all the other furniture, then decided to swop back (!). I finally have a wardrobe and I have sorted my clothes out, but the other room is absolute carnage!
So, I texted him today at 2ish, to say, I hope you have a good time tonight at the show.. and something about him being his double and having oirish hair.. and .. well, as I expected, he didnt reply.
So thats a real marker today. A year since he left, he didnt invite me to the show I bought tickets for (and he knows is my favourite comedian) and didnt even contact me all weekend (as he hinted he might).
My BMF rang for an hour.. I was making him laugh ALOT.. I was lugging a wardrobe whilst on the phone, he said he wished I had "Al-Cam" in my house as I am so funny. I said, thats what annoys me about him leaving me, he always said I was the funniest girl he knew and way funnier than all his friends gf's and I hear that this HELLen isnt funny at all. Maybe she has other amazing qualities, that I dont possess (like she knows the legally acceptable limits for arsenic in soil, for example).
Anyway.. he kept on at me about sleeping around, or getting a new bf and how great I was and how, yes, it would be hard to find another guy at college "like him". I said I was a bit envious of all these happy couples and he said, whose happy? Dont be so sure... and that he had been doing a lot of thinking and he feels quite odd. He was being quite odd, but at the end of the convo, said he was a bit tipsy.
SO basically, damn and blast it, but I thikn my M BMF is in love with me. My stars predicted someone would be, but its really bad if he is. I was worried about this lately and my sister/BFF had been saying it for ages.
Feel a bit wierd about it. I really love him, hes a piscean, we get on like a house on fire. But... he's M and I dont fancy him and anyway, he's M. Male-female friendships always seem to go this way.
I was shocked when he told me not to tell his W that I have been round there alot for meals and drinks and watching films! I said, what, havent you been telling her then!?!? He said no, she wouldnt be happy about it. I said, but its me! only me! And he said, yes, and she wouldnt be happy about it...
This is not good. This is how M break up. I am NOT happy. I didnt invite this.
Hi there Ali - that's an achievement! Sorry to hear about the downer at the end of your day - that sounds like a tough situation to deal with ... see F b
Best - GFI
Isn't that odd? because I think it was totally predictable. In fact, for some time now, I was wondering what the sub-story was.
I am sure YOUR intentions weren't bad; but you BMF was playing with fire. His wife is away; he doesn't have female companionship; you turn towards eachother to vent, commisserate(sp?), etc and a crush develops. Text book, really. It's how affairs happen at work; I am sure you have been giving him lots of compliments on how great he is, how lucky his wife is, etc. (I am NOT blaming you--please know that.)
Anyway, his wife would have had a right to be mad about him spending so much time with you--because look what happened. Now he's got a crush. He was hiding what you guys did together...not good.
In my opinion, the nicest thing you could do for both of them is stop hanging out with him and talking with him. At least for awhile until he gets his head back on straight and she returns from Japan.
Ha! No, Trixi.. I DONT tell him how great he is! I tell him he needs C. I told him tonight he has unresolved anger issues and was misdirecting it at people/road rage etc. I call him a 'cynical s*d' and all kinds of things. I dont tell him how lucky his W is, I tell him HE is lucky that she didnt leave him and he is lucky he got this chance to 'lose' her being away, and realise all these painful lessons about how badly he has been treating her. I tell him he must make amends. I guess I challenge him alot. He does me too.
He says he cant be without his family and calls my ex names for running off and having an MLC and leaving me. He said, we could all do that, but thats not commitment. Tonight when he was drunk, he was different.
I did turn down dinner and drinks Saturday night with him, as I didnt want to be too much around him.
Shame though, as he is like my twin and we laugh alot.
I'm sure it will blow over... he's going out to Jaoan to fetch them back in 3 weeks time.
Hi GFI! Will do.. hope your tiling turned out ok!
Hey Ali,
Sorry to hear about that. Just distance. That is all you can do.
LOL- well I am glad to hear you try to talk sense into him.
Just another proof of how irresistable you are...
Love
K
Sorry about the anniversary. Mine is today, the day he left (checked the calendar).I dont feel a damn thing. I am so screwed up!!! *SIGH*!!!
Hi Ali
Glad you made it through the anniversary day OK. Think of you lots! xx
(Dont worry K I had my anniversary about 5-6 weeks ago, and I totally forgot it until a few days had passed....)
Hi, Ali,
How are you doing today? I have been thinking of you, especially when I'm thinking about NaNo stuff!
How's your word count? I think I finally got past the "stuck-ness" with my novel, although I still only have 2000 words--lots of catching up for me, but I know I can do it! I'm going to try the program on this link:
http://lab.drwicked.com/writeordie.html It seems to be a good boost for those of us who need a boot to the tush to get our word count up!
I did put a looooooong post on my thread (do I have any other kind?)
so you can get caught up with me if you're interested.
So, on your current life...yup, it's so weird and awkward when you have someone who is interested in you romantically but the feeling isn't mutual. I don't get hit on very much, so I'm not really smooth at handling it on those rare occasions (I don't think it's the way I look that makes it so rare, although I think I'm fairly ordinary-looking; I think it's something about the vibe I put out--"unavailable" maybe). I hope your friend can get his head in gear and turn his attention back to his W, where it belongs!! You know none of us here are happy to hear about yet another spouse with a wandering eye!! Uggggh!
Okay, I'm really overdue in my bed, so I'm cutting this really short (for me!), but will check back with you later. Hope things are going well!
Peace,
Dawn
Ali, how are you doing. Did you read Priya today? Interesting
((((Ali)))))
Just checking in on you. Sorry your BMF is being weird. Hoping it was just the drink talking. I know you won't allow anything to happen with him, but you are going to need to step carefully around him.
Hey girls,
Yes, I did read Priya, shes so great. If my ex was talking to me, I thikn it would be spot on for raking over the past and coming to the end and getting the truth out, shedding that skin etc. If only!
Mishka, no, I wouldnt do anything with him!!! No way! Thanks for the hug.
Kalni, Essie (hi!), Dawn.. well, I have struggled today again, like yesterday. I am finding it hard becuase I am pretty isolated here. Just still missing his friendship, I realise now that my life was pretty wrapped up with him, although we had lots of freinds, he was very much my 'rock' and I am really at a loss without that. It wouldnt have been so hard if we wre still back home, in our house and I was still in my career. I've had so much change in my life, its made my head swirl. And now, just like I said, feeling isolated.
I need to tell him again taht the money needs to go in for the mortgages, but this is the last month we need to do that. I am trying to work out the best way to tell him.
Thanks for checking on me, I've been a bit all over the place lately, dashing to my different jobs.
Hmmmm
I need to tell him again taht the money needs to go in for the mortgages, but this is the last month we need to do that. I am trying to work out the best way to tell him.
Hi Ali, I think we have been here before just a few times.
Rocks don't move that far, more like a pebble and you know what they say about them.
So whats next?
Are you stiff after lugging the furniture, good on you, I think you got far more done than I did. It does help to change furniture and stuff around I found.
Hi,
letting you know I am around...
K
Thanks K, thats nice to know!
I checked our account, and there is enough room in there to pay the mortgages this time, so he doesnt have to pay it in tonight, but that will take it up to the overdraft limit. I had resolved to call him tonight to ask him to put the money in and to ask for a meeeting. But I am too scared to. Ridiculous hey?
Al x
Do it Ali. You really need to get the money situation sorted out. He's being completely irresponsible about it and it's really not your job to baby him.
Asking for a meeting......you need to be specific with this man. You've been giving him to much wiggle room to keep from seeing you. YOU need this. Get what you need girlfriend!
I agree with mish, you know what I think, right?
Yeah, well, I rang, no answer. And he has caller ID. He may be out, but he is a real creature of habit and he's normally in on a Monday night. I left a quick nervous message saying I was calling about the mortgages and to call me back if he came in and got the message, or I'd email him tommorow.
I have wanted to be honest since I came down from the high of our long convo last Monday night. It was a convo about nothing. So sad, I am not dbing anymore, I just think I am so hurt and rejected and floored by him that I literally have no strength around him anymore. I know things astrologically are coming to an end this week and next. Which is fitting as I want my meeting in that timeframe.. then he is away beginning of December, so thats that two weekends wiped out. Then it is into mid December and I dont think I will be seeing him then, just before Christmas.
Its gone on for too long. I regret calling Jody now and sending those emails. I should have spoken to him. But then, there would be nothing to 'wait' for now, so if it was then, or now, the result is still the same.
I tried girls. The universe doesnt want me to have clarity/closure. Its like a sick joke.
Oh Ali, I am sorry for you. Can you not try to summon up the last ounce of courage you have and call him, speak to him and pin him down for a face to face meeting.You need this, it is all you have talked about and each and everytime you have let him off the hook by leaving yourself wide open to his "sometime" "give you a call" or "we'll arrange a meeting" type replys.
I should have spoken to him
YES you should but it can be rectified or are you no longer in need of closure?
I tried girls. The universe doesnt want me to have clarity/closure
Did you honestly and truly? I don't just mean tonight.
I am not sure its the universe,more a reluctance on your part to make it happen.
I understand that and if you are happy with how it ends then I am happy for you but it seems to me you are still in need of a face to face.
I hope he rings you back and if he does then just bite the bullet and say when can we meet suggest a couple of dates and don't get off the phone til he picks one. If he is relunctant and giving you his usual speil of garbage then suggest you call round one evening and tell him when. I'd put money on the fact he'll agree to one of your dates then.
I hate that you are still in limbo.
Take care.
Oh Ali, I am sorry for you. Can you not try to summon up the last ounce of courage you have and call him, speak to him and pin him down for a face to face meeting.You need this, it is all you have talked about and each and everytime you have let him off the hook by leaving yourself wide open to his "sometime" "give you a call" or "we'll arrange a meeting" type replys.
I should have spoken to him
YES you should but it can be rectified or are you no longer in need of closure?
I tried girls. The universe doesnt want me to have clarity/closure
Did you honestly and truly? I don't just mean tonight.
I am not sure its the universe,more a reluctance on your part to make it happen.
I understand that and if you are happy with how it ends then I am happy for you but it seems to me you are still in need of a face to face.
I hope he rings you back and if he does then just bite the bullet and say when can we meet suggest a couple of dates and don't get off the phone til he picks one. If he is relunctant and giving you his usual speil of garbage then suggest you call round one evening and tell him when. I'd put money on the fact he'll agree to one of your dates then.
I hate that you are still in limbo.
Take care.
ooohs I figgied, ah well if a things worth saying di dah di dah...
((((()))))
I think the weather id driving us crazy.
(((Ali)))
Sorry you're feeling down today and isolated. If I was a bit closer by I'd pop in for a cup of tea. I'm also sad that you feel like you've come to the end of the road. have you definitely decided it's over then? I know you're not DBing any more, but was just thinking about it not being over until YOU decide it is, and all that....
Anywa, I hope he's called you back and you're on the phone to him right now, or failing that you manage to get him to commit to meeting up for a chat. I can imagine it's going to be hard as he'll be feeling pressured to do it, and the WAS typically doesn't like that, especially if he generally avoids difficult conversations.
Tomorrow's another day. Good news on being busy with work though! I find it an excellent distraction!
L. xx
Hey Naej.. perhaps we cross posted! I did call him.. and yesterday, no answer both times! Guess I go back to waiting, or I give up, whichever happens sooner.
Hey Lisa! I dont think I have decided its over, it just is over? I havent seen him for nearly 3 monhts, the entire time he is seeing someone else. He basically left me, for her. So he must have pretty strong feelings for her. And now he got what he wanted. Albeit, he was in a bad way (proper, bonafide depressed!) when he made hte decision to date her and he is having a nasty Pluto - Venus/Pluto transit, but I digress.
I see that phrase alot here.."its not over until YOU decide it is" and I dont understand it, honestly. Can you explain it?! If he's now with someone else, and I dont see him and he's going forwards with his life with a new gf.. isnt that over?? Regardless of if I choose to hang on and love him from a distance!?
There are vague, nebulous positives, if I want to go down that route..tempered here with reality...he's never mentined our joint finances (but hes lazy/avoidant) he's never hinted at selling (see above and also, the market is dodgy), he's still emailing (very minimal) he has called twice for a long chat (hmm, not sure why that is! obligation?) he made excuses about "being crap on email" because he is out on site and not been texting me, because he had a new phone and not seen me, because he had been tired.. So, is he trying to keep me sweet/dangling, or, just appeasing his guilt and "saying what I want to hear" as he said he did at the bomb, because thats what he does, he is an avoidant coward and its easier to say.. yeah, yeah, give you a call.. than tell me, no, I dont want to, I dont give a r*ts *rse about you anymore? (no, I dont know either).
I'm sure some on the boards would maybe be glad of these 'baby steps'...but its a year later and its STILL just me and the cat and I miss having someone to warm my feet on in bed...
Hey, Ali,
Congrats on making it to this milestone. I know it sucks to be here, but here is where you are, my dear.
Keep going forward.
I can't say it enough, but I'm glad you called and when you do speak w/ him, pin him down to a time. Again, you can give him options, but don't put up w/ his "we'll meet soon" BS b/c he's proven that is all that it is.
Also, if you need to send an e-mail, attach one of those receipt things so you'll know when he's opened it up. He can't hide or caller ID that one, now can he?
Finally, you mentioned you miss having someone to warm your feet at night - have you thought of socks or even shoving the cat under the comforter? Socks are good, but all that fur would surely keep you warm, if you can stand the claws as well. Just a thought.
RTL
Also, if you need to send an e-mail, attach one of those receipt things so you'll know when he's opened it up. He can't hide or caller ID that one, now can he?
Some geek info: If the sender of the email requests a "read receipt" or a "received receipt", the email recipient can elect to NOT grant said receipt to the sender.
Requesting a receipt can be viewed as passive-aggressive.
RTL: yo, homey. wsup.
Hey, really?? I always wonderd how that worked! Ok, wont try that then, thanks for the tipoff. Hi SirPrize, I follow your sitch closely, you must be one of the strongest around here!
Hey Rob.. oh, no, cat in the bed?? Shes way too fluffy for that!
Slept badly again, as in, woke up early hours twice. I just woke up angry! It just hit me, I dont know if I even want to be his d*mn friend now. This is getting ridiculous. I could forgive and forgive, but enough is enough. Its gone mid November and he still wont speak to me/see me. He either really doesnt care about me at all, and doesnt care to say anything to me about her and apologise, or he is supremely selfish (or as my RL people say, he has no idea how much this meeting/talk means to you or how much you have suffefed because you never told him and you have hid it well). Which is true.
He may not get my phone message straught away, or for a while, I dont know, he once told me he doesnt check them much. He did get my text on Sunday and ignored that.
I guess I should ignore him now (how do you detach/ignore someone who is already ignoring you!?)
Morning all.
Good Morning!!
He is not doing it to you. You are doing to yourself... You can accuse him for leading you on until he fell for someone but you cant accuse him for staying away from you the last months.
What would you prefer? To keep spending time together etc etc UNTIL when? His reaction is not a surprise. It's understandable. He is involved with someone and his ex grilfriend who he cares about on some level, cant be part of his everyday life. Is that so strange?
If you cant ask for what you want, if you cant express it, demand it, then why on earth should he "sense" what you want and offer it to you? We've discussed this. People tend to run away from any uncomfortable situations. He is not going to be proactive for you. You have to take care of yourself.
I dont get the fear and the panick after a whole year. You have been living alone, you yourself said you have done a great job with that, what is it that scares you and keeps you from doing the last act to liberate yourself from him? Is that what it is? You dont want to finally "break free"?
It's never over till you say so. That's is exactly what it means. You can linger emotionally for ages... Is that what you want?
Love always
K
I'm telling you, this universe is one sick puppy...
So, I'm done, I'm angry, I want to ignore him, then I get a bl*&dy text message AT THAT MOMENT..
"Hiya. Got your message last night. Bowling in town tonight - fancy meeting afterwards for a drink?"
Bowling in town? Proabably a work thing. Hmm.. theres something kind of restrained about his message. I half wondered if he would crack and want to see me, as I have phoned him at home twice uninvited and texted Sunday lunchtime.. all times he could be with her, and maybe thats awkward for him. But then going for a drink is positive in terms of friendship, thats not just him coming over for an hour to do the minimum to appease me.
I only ever once saw him on a Tuesday night this year. Think this must be 'safe' for him.. he can tell the gf he is out with workmates for bowling and a drink.. but slot me into that.
Oh, not feeling thrilled about seeing him. Wonder why? Feel tired and ground down. Supposed I should accept! Hmm.. a drink in town. So.. question is, do we 'just' chat.. or do I lay it all on him this first meeting???
Hey, Ali,
I'm still awake and now you're up!
Good morning! (Well, *technically* it's morning here, although it's still pitch-dark outside, 'cause it's only 3:30 a.m., and as far as I'm concerned, it's not *really* morning until sunrise!)
I had to laugh about the whole cat in the bed thing! I am a COMPLETE cat fanatic, have had cats all my life (we currently have 3)! When I was growing up, one of our cats (a darling Siamese) just LOVED getting under the covers with me! Especially when I was sick, oddly enough, but he was a great comfort to me. I miss having someone to warm my feet on in bed too. Even though he's right there sleeping next to me, I can't touch him. Best I can do is move over to the warm spot on his side of the bed when he gets up.
I try not to think about this too much, but I have a story for you. One night (a number of years ago) I got into bed shortly after H, so he was still awake (he can fall asleep faster than anybody else I know--literally 10 seconds between talking and snoring!--under the right circumstances!). So, I got into bed and snuggled up next to him, as was usual (until the bomb), and he immediately jumped out of bed and started walking back and forth around the room, with a hint of a smirk. I said, "WHAT are you doing??" He said, "Looking for the bucket of ice water that you put your hands and feet in before you go to bed!"
So, hope that starts your day off properly, with a smile! Here's some more for you!
Peace,
Dawn
Ali. I am going to 2x4 you.
Oh, not feeling thrilled about seeing him. Wonder why? Feel tired and ground down. Supposed I should accept! Hmm.. a drink in town. So.. question is, do we 'just' chat.. or do I lay it all on him this first meeting???
You've been wanting this meeting with him to 'let go' and 'be honest' for WEEKS. Every time I've come to visit recently there's been discussion about getting the meeting, needing to see the look in his eyes, needing to tell him how you feel, needing to speak to him so you can close the chapter and move on and so on!
And NOW, he says he can meet and instead of saying 'yes' and then doing what you yourself have been saying that you need to do for you, you're asking whether you should just not do it?! Why?! So you can prolong your own agony by waiting for the next meeting and not getting the things you need for another week, or two weeks, or three?! I am TOTALLY confused!!
Please, please, please, if you really feel that telling him how you feel is the ONLY way you can move on and get some detachment, DO IT. You know yourself and your situation best. My take from reading the discussions here is that you believe this is the right thing to do now (??)
I hope you don't think I'm being overlay harsh here. I'm thinking of you and trying to support your goals, but after reading your last post I'm totally confused about what your goal is. I think you have two options....
1. Continue to DB. Work on the friendship. Accept what he can give you at the moment and plan a LONG TERM strategy of looking the other way while whatever is playing out with him plays out.
OR
2. Decide that you're NOT DBing any more. Say what you need to say to him. Do the Last Last Resort if you're at that stage. Meet him, tell him how you feel and how you're hurt. Be prepared for him to withdraw, OR for him to feel that the slate has been wiped clean and he can be your friend. I have no idea how he'll react.
You know yourself, and him best. Decide on a course of action and follow it. To quote Helen Keller, we can do anything we want as long as we stick to it long enough. I'll support whichever course you choose and am online today if you want to talk through the discussion, and if you decide to have it.
Thinking of you. (And sorry if I was harsh- I'm using my science voice today).
L. xx
Oh no, not harsh at all! I'm confused...
We've been exchanging texts this morning. I have been witty (I've been having a laugh with my BMF and the boys at college, i tried a text out on them and they all burst out laughing, so I sent that!) Also, been doing a bit of flirting with the 21 year old, T, we were discussing the merits of goats milk - he says he gets all claggy on cows milk, like me. See, we have so much in common, despite the age gap!
Um, in answer to your question.. I dont feel 'safe' to do it in public, I feel its the sort of convo I would rather have at home. Also, yes it was what I wanted, but when it comes down to it, I, like the WAS am perhaps a giant coward and 'cant face it'. I dont know what to say, how to say it, or how he'll reaact.
Either I try a few tentative things (like, its been hard to not see you for 3 months, hows it going with helen!?) or I tell him whatever I want, or, like you say, I go easy this time and let him be more comfrotable for a 'frist' meeting and then try and have a heart to heart at the next meeting, possibly if he will agree to come to the house. This was Jody's suggestion, he wont want to go there the first time you meet up, you'd need to see him and have a stress free meeting the first time, as its been so awkward being out of contact.
I dont know, I was desperate to have it out with him, but maybe I'm too cr*p, afraid of his reaction to do it? Which is daft isnt it. I wanted to ask you a question, I'll post on your thread. Thanks for your help!
Ohh. and the other thing that has thrown me, is he really meant what he said about meeting for a drink. I thought he would just come to the house to have a cup of tea with me and a chat (as I have done with ex's). I am surprised he wants to go for a drink with me, feels kind of freaky and wierd. I've never been for a drink with an ex when then dating the man I ran off with and he didnt go for a drink with his ex when he started seeing me. But then, neither of us have been with anyone else for 9 years either, so cant compare I guess.
Hey Ali, i'm glad you guys are texting. You sound better today.
Hi Al,
We've been exchanging texts this morning.
Good news....
Um, in answer to your question.. I dont feel 'safe' to do it in public, I feel its the sort of convo I would rather have at home.
Why? what are you expecting to happen? I think that if you want to have the conversation, you have to do it with NO expectations. At all- not a single one. If you expect anything, based on his previous reactions I'd expect him to go all quiet and then apologise and then run away, but you know him best- I'd like to hear what your expectations are the the 'big talk' if you decide to have it.
Also, yes it was what I wanted, but when it comes down to it, I, like the WAS am perhaps a giant coward and 'cant face it'. I dont know what to say, how to say it, or how he'll reaact.
For this reason I think it would be good to have a plan of what you want to say and a map of your expectations if you decide to say it (see above). IMHO having a discussion is not necessary to get closure- it would be highly unusual for a walkaway partner to explain their actions to their ex, especially a year after they left. You need to decide for yourself what your boundaries are and whether you accept the situation and let go, or keep fighting. Whatever he says shouldn't make a difference to that (or I'd have given up on my H months ago!)
Either I try a few tentative things (like, its been hard to not see you for 3 months, hows it going with helen!?) or I tell him whatever I want, or, like you say, I go easy this time and let him be more comfrotable for a 'frist' meeting and then try and have a heart to heart at the next meeting, possibly if he will agree to come to the house.
What is your goal? From what I read previously on this thread and the two before it, your goal was to have the conversation with him. It seemed like it was a pressing need. However, today it seems as though the need isn't that pressing. what if he won't agree to come to the house? can you wait? IMHO it's much more common to meet your ex at the pub, in a public place, than at home in private. It's difficult to explain a trip to the house to the OW (or OM), but easier to explain a trip to the pub because there's no risk of any horizontal jogging.....BTW, I'm not suggesting that you aim for the second meeting at home. I'm trying to get to what you want/need to acheive.....
This was Jody's suggestion, he wont want to go there the first time you meet up, you'd need to see him and have a stress free meeting the first time, as its been so awkward being out of contact.
It's been awkward for you, but I think it's an assumption that being out of touch has been awkward for him, right? I mean, he hasn't said it's been awkward for him has he? This is splitting hairs a bit, but I don't think you should formulate a plan based on an assumption. It's not good science!
I dont know, I was desperate to have it out with him, but maybe I'm too cr*p, afraid of his reaction to do it?
Well, I don't think it's a reflection of you being rubbish, and IMHO this is the kind of negative self-talk that causes depression. I don't want to hear it from you again
The situation is difficult- it's not surprising that you're worried and concerned about the outcome.
I wanted to ask you a question, I'll post on your thread. Thanks for your help!
In answer to the question, I deal with the aubergine by generally not thinking about her. She's a bandage that my H is using to plaster over his MLC and she's really not a patch on me, apart from in the downing pints department, which I'm not interesting in competing in. A WAS has issues of their own to deal with and so I deal with her existence by focussing on my H and being a supportive friend to him. That's what RollercoasterRider once posted that the MLCer really needs. I don't ever bring her up when H and I are together- he should focus on me when we're together and I couldn't mention her in any way that wouldn't make him feel bad, so since I don't want him to feel bad when we see each other, aubergine goes off the menu. does that answer the question? IMO you need to decide on your boundaries. If the OW is a deal-breaker for you, detach and move on now. if not and you see her as a symptom of something deeper in BF, settle in for the long-haul (as Jody said to me). Oh, and you also mentioned on my thread that you're not sure if he's still seeing her. I think you need to assume he is until he tells you it's off, otherwise you'll drive yourself mad thinking about it and wondering.....
I am surprised he wants to go for a drink with me, feels kind of freaky and wierd.
I think I mentioned this above but my post has become so long that I can't remember. I don't think it's wierd- it's just an easy thing to do, and on neutral territory.
Here all afternoon until 6...
Hi Ali, yes think we must have cross posted over our last posts.
I only use two fingers!
Well now, I like both Kalni's and Lisa's posts. Very much!.
I thought Jodies advice had been thrown away as of yesterdays post?
Not strange about meeting for a drink using my non involved eyes.Quite straight forward esp. for a bloke, he can kill 2 birds with one stone! He is already out, suits his time schedule, maybe saves having to let g/friend know where he is and with whome.
He can exit pub quicker than leaving from your place should he need a quick get away.
Don't waste this window of opportunity IF you are serious about what you want. Don't take the soft option with the hope that the next meeting you will say xyz... whatever 'cos there may not be a next time or the momentum will have passed.
I am beginning to think you would be lost with out all the will he call,contact reply drama in your life. You would have no reason NOT to move forward and put your pain to bed.
So at the risk of being harsh I will type what it all boils down too,baring in mind Kalni's great post.
PUT up or Shut up? Only you can decide.
Try doing the run through in your mind and see how comfortable you are with each senoria.
See him and speak what's in your heart and mind-no holding back.The full painful brutal truth-done kindly. Ask your questions.
OR
Agree the meeting and do the pussyfooting around talk about absolutely nothing of any importance to you, make him laugh and then live in hope he will reply to your next text, call whatever for how ever long it takes him to agree to meet up at your place-baring in mind it may take months or never happen.
He obviously thinks you are fine that the rel. is over and he has a new g/f. Your actions tell him that. How is he to know otherwise. Meeting up , joking, funny texts all confirm that he can breath a sigh of relief that you made it so easy for him.
Eventually it will be too late to cover old wounds and you will be left asking what if's and why for a very long time.Not healthy especially when you had your chance and blew it as they say.
Your choice, how badly do you want to know why, cos this is maybe the only chance you will get.Use it or loose it as they also say.
We are here whatever you decide.
((()))
ps, my cat sleeps under the covers when its a very cold night. I have the scars to prove it.
I see Lisa posted before I hit my send post, but we seem to be on much the same wavelength, cept she says it so much better.
You can tell my northern roots surface at times, spades a spade.
Hey Lisa.. wow, thankyou!
I am totally confused. I did go to the doctor last night abuot my iron count (I'm tired and breahtless a bit again) and also, about being depressed.. he dished out a prescription for ADs, but I am still loathe to start taking them. I dont know. So, yes, maybe I have lost my confidence/strenght and feel a bit crap/rubbish and thats why whenever I thikn of what I might say to him (and yes naej.. rehearse it in my mind) I just all go to pieces and wonder if I can actually do it.
i'm not so sure Naej - "He obviously thinks you are fine that the rel. is over and he has a new g/f. Your actions tell him that" anymore than Lisa's H? Its a bit more complicated than that and he'd have to be an android to think I was ok about it, he knows I was devastated. Why do you think he never told me about her? Beucase he knew how gutted I would be.
I also dont think it will be the only chance I get. Definetly not. It might be the only chance I get right now.. but then, there will be other chances, and as time goes by, we will both be less emotional, it will get easier to talk about it but it will also become less relevant. Like Lisa pointed out, what WAS would want to explain themselves a year after they left?
I want to see him, i dont want to have a rubbish fake convo about nothing, I want to have him in my life, as a friend at least at some point (too soon for that?) I would like him to engage with me on some remorseful level, but I suspect he wont want to, i dont want it to be awful and painful and him react badly and then not agree to see me agein, I dont want to pretend I am ok about Helen.. all of these things dont seem to fit together, if you see what I mean, I cant square the circle.
Lisa - I wasnt planning on mentioning Helen. Any convo we had that was more real/emotional i would prefer to be about me and him and what the hell all that contact was about in the summer. I dont want to give her credence by mentioning her and I am sure he wont be comfortable discussing it either. I agree that I expect he will say, i dont know, or frown alot and then leave early, if I do try and ask him anything.
My goal? To see him again. Not to lose contact. That was my goal back in February! I dont want her to have 'won'. Why should she have him all to herself and I dont even get to have him as my friend, after all we've been through?
BUT.. its too soon to be his friend as I still love him - but will be interesting to see how I feel about him when I see him in the flesh.
I would like to be chatty, funny and attractive and show him what he is missing and make him regret his decision - thats my foolish pride.
In fact, I would rather act as-if and knock his socks off and be strong and confident, than sit there hurt and weepy and telling him what he has done to me and asking questions that i know he wont answer.
So there, seem to have answered my own question. Damn, i wasnt expecting to feel like this!
Aha Ali, see what a bit of good cop / bad cop can do?
Yes you answered your question.
This is far from over and you are still DB ing, you still have expectations. You still have a goal and a kind of plan as to how you will achieve it.
BTW I didn't mean that your x didn't at the time know how devestated you were about the break up, just that a year on he will be assuming that you are now fine and over making it difficult for him by being such a girl and wanting to analyse why etc.
I think there is another way to ask the questions than being all weeepy, calm and controled would do, but that is hard when you have expectations and a goal.
" Why should she have him all to herself and I dont even get to have him as my friend, after all we've been through"
Be careful on this one, you have just experienced where this can go. What if he marries her?
Hope it goes as you want it too. I am not saying no expectations because you have a ton of them so just be careful.
Aha Ali, see what a bit of good cop / bad cop can do?
Yes you answered your question.
This is far from over and you are still DB ing, you still have expectations. You still have a goal and a kind of plan as to how you will achieve it.
BTW I didn't mean that your x didn't at the time know how devestated you were about the break up, just that a year on he will be assuming that you are now fine and over making it difficult for him by being such a girl and wanting to analyse why etc.
I think there is another way to ask the questions than being all weeepy, calm and controled would do, but that is hard when you have expectations and a goal.
" Why should she have him all to herself and I dont even get to have him as my friend, after all we've been through"
Be careful on this one, you have just experienced where this can go. What if he marries her?
Hope it goes as you want it too. I am not saying no expectations because you have a ton of them so just be careful.
How would any new b'f feel about this close frienship with an x do you think. Or would this frienship prevent you from moving ahead. This is in the future but just wanted to pose these hypothetical questions.
Ali,
I want to share some song lyrics with you today that I think are very applicable to your situation. I have been clinging to every word of this song and I hope you will too.
How You Live by Point of Grace
Video Wake up to the sunlight
With your windows open
Don't hold in your anger or leave things unspoken
Wear your red dress
Use your good dishes
Make a big mess and make lots of wishes
Have what you want
But want what you have
And don't spend your life lookin' back
Chorus:
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
You won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
Cuz it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
So go to the ballgames
And go to the ballet
And go see your folks more than just on the holidays
Kiss all your children
Dance with your wife
Tell your husband you love him every night
Don't run from the truth
'Cause you can't get away
Just face it and you'll be okay
Chorus:
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
You won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
Cuz it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
Oh wherever you are and wherever you've been
Now is the time to begin
So give to the needy
And pray for the grieving
E'en when you don't think that you can
'Cause all that you do is bound to come back to you
So think of your fellow man
Make peace with God and make peace with yourself
'Cause in the end there's nobody else
Chorus:
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
You won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
Live Ali. Get your closure and really live, for YOU!!!! BF will do what he will do, you can not see into his mind, you can not decide based on what he does or doesn't do or say. He is living for himself and you must do the same thing.
Meet him for a drink. Trust me, saying what you need to say is much better in a public venue. The people surrounding you are paying no attention to what is going on but it will give you both security in knowing that the emotion won't progress to a heightened level either. Your internal self-control gauge will stop that.
Lisa and naej have both given you invaluable advice and I am of the same opinion. JUST DO IT!
Oh no another double post when I edit, sorry my pc has the gremlins today.
he dished out a prescription for ADs, but I am still loathe to start taking them. I dont know.
Al- take them. Please. He wouldn't give them to you unless he thought they'd help you; firstly they cost money, and secondly it'd be against the Hippocratic Oath to do so. You can come off them in the future, but if you need them, take them.
So, yes, maybe I have lost my confidence/strength and feel a bit crap/rubbish and thats why whenever I thikn of what I might say to him (and yes naej.. rehearse it in my mind) I just all go to pieces and wonder if I can actually do it.
I think this is because you're putting too much emphasis on a single meeting. Think of it as a marathon rather than a sprint. A single meeting won't have a huge bearing on the outcome, but a series of positive steps will. it's like the premiership season vs the FA Cup Final.
i'm not so sure Naej - "He obviously thinks you are fine that the rel. is over and he has a new g/f. Your actions tell him that" anymore than Lisa's H?
Hmmm, I'd say here that my H clearly thinks it's over if we're judging by his current actions. The point is that when the WAS leaves, and until they say something conclusive to indicate a change of heart, they've gone. It's hard to accept, especially when they're in constant contact, but that's the way you have to think to remain detached.
he'd have to be an android to think I was ok about it, he knows I was devastated. Why do you think he never told me about her? Beucase he knew how gutted I would be.
In that case you don't need to tell him again.....
I also dont think it will be the only chance I get. Definetly not. It might be the only chance I get right now.. but then, there will be other chances, and as time goes by, we will both be less emotional, it will get easier to talk about it but it will also become less relevant.
I totally agree!
I want to have him in my life, as a friend at least at some point (too soon for that?) I would like him to engage with me on some remorseful level, but I suspect he wont want to, i dont want it to be awful and painful and him react badly and then not agree to see me agein, I dont want to pretend I am ok about Helen.. all of these things dont seem to fit together, if you see what I mean, I cant square the circle.
Whoa!!! I was trying to work out where to stop the quotation on this sentence but then I realised I couldn't. This sentence is SO reflective of what's going on in your head......
I want to have him in my life, as a friend at least at some point (too soon for that?)
You want him as a friend- good goal. But then you immediately ascribe a worry/concern to the goal. is it too soon? Am I asking for too much? A good goal doesn't have feelings/worry ascribed to it. Just state the goal. You want him as your friend. Yes, now is too soon, but that doesn't mean being friends shouldn;'t be a goal. if you were friends, how would you both behave towards each other? What babysteps are you looking to generate?
I would like him to engage with me on some remorseful level, but I suspect he wont want to
same thing as the previous goal- a goal followed by a worry about why it might not happen. if you want him to say sorry, why is that? To make you feel better maybe? Saying sorry is usually hard and makes you feel guilty so I doubt he'll be wanting to have to say it, especially as he knows he hurt you. also, you are ASS-U-ME-ing he won't want to. No ASS-U-ME-ing remember?!!
My goal? To see him again. Not to lose contact. That was my goal back in February! I dont want her to have 'won'. Why should she have him all to herself and I dont even get to have him as my friend, after all we've been through?
The first sentence- to see him again is a good goal. And is the medium term goal to build a friendship, and the long-term goal to rebuild the R? Be careful about phrasing goals as negatives (eg to NOT lose contact). That sets the goal up from a position of weakness, of you needing something. A goal of 'maintaining regular contact' would be a better way to think of it. same thing about her not 'winning', although I'm guilty of that one myself. BF isn't a prize you're fighting for. YOU are the prize and you fighting for this shows it. Think of him being lucky to win you.
BUT.. its too soon to be his friend as I still love him - but will be interesting to see how I feel about him when I see him in the flesh.
Somehow I doubt that you'll suddenly not love him. Also, at the risk of being contrary, you can be friends even if you love someone. You just have to change your EXPECTATIONS of the R.
I would like to be chatty, funny and attractive and show him what he is missing - thats my foolish pride.
It's not foolish pride. it's DB! DO IT!
I'm a marathon poster today. Sorry.
THANKYOU SOOOO MUCH LISA! I could hug yuo through the screen for all yuor help today. I am clerly not able/ready whatever to just say my piece and walk away (sorry mishka!) I really thought I was, but when the chips are down.. its 10 years of my life. i can say my piece and chuck down my chips next time, or at Christmas, or in February, i dont know. But today, doesnt feel right.
So, just had a quick convo with a friend at college (wise older woman!) and she said.. if he brings it up, great, have some things prepared yuo might say, but if he doesnt, then dont go there, that would indicate he is NOT ready to talk to you about her and therefore, it wouldnt go well if yuo tried and yuo will end up feeling like yuo failed in yuor goal. So, just be cheerful, smile alot and let him sit there wondering.
How does that sound? God, I really dont know if I can do it. What the hell are we going to talk abuot??? Before her, I could asy, how was yuor eveing/weekend, without it being awkward, now it is!
oh and I didnt mean it isnt over, I mean, I dont think he would now think I was ok with it. i think he knows I am upset he has a gf. Thats why he puts "hope you're ok" on his emails.
Lisa, I will reread your post.. so you think aiming for friends is ok, even if we're not there yet??
Like I said on your thread, I really dont know if I can do it, I dont know how you have managed to be so brave. I suppose.. its just the first time we meet now that the truth is out (he is with ow) and then, if I saw him again, it wouldnt be AS hard?
ohhh.. I wish you could all come with me. We are meeting at 8.30ish.
Naej.. thanks for your help too (you can delete a second post when you go it and edit it!)
THANKYOU SOOOO MUCH LISA!
You're very welcome
she said.. if he brings it up, great, have some things prepared yuo might say, but if he doesnt, then dont go there, that would indicate he is NOT ready to talk to you about her and therefore, it wouldnt go well if yuo tried and yuo will end up feeling like yuo failed in yuor goal. So, just be cheerful, smile alot and let him sit there wondering.
Good advice. Very DB.
God, I really dont know if I can do it.
You'll have a better chance of doing it if you BELIEVE that you can. Just tell yourself it'll be fine- old friends catching up and behave accordingly. Things to talk about will come easily- they always do with my H and the aubergine is never mentioned. Ask about the football- England are playing tomorrow, tell him about your work, ask about his, what did he have for lunch, did he hear about the pirates, what does he think of baby P. There are TONS of neutral topics so don't worry.
Lisa, I will reread your post.. so you think aiming for friends is ok, even if we're not there yet??
Gosh, I find this so intriguing. Al- do you only aim for things you already have, or do you aim for things you don't have so you can get them? If you're going to have a dream, as they say, dream big! (Not that being friends is a big dream- it's a good goal, but you get my point....)
I really dont know if I can do it
Yes, you can. See above.
I dont know how you have managed to be so brave. I suppose.. its just the first time we meet now that the truth is out (he is with ow) and then, if I saw him again, it wouldnt be AS hard?
Yes- that's exactly it. It gets easier every time, and next time will be infinitely easier than this time, and so on until you forget that it was even hard. Like walking
This is the last of my super-lengthy posts for today. If only I'd committed to NaNo, I'm sure I'd have been halfway to my word count just from stringing my posts together!
Good Luck tonight. Julia and I will toast you while we wolf down some delicious Pad Thai.
L. xx
Al,
You'll be fine. Have confidence in yourself, you know that you are a lovely, fun and generally all round great person. Let that great person shine through!
Lisa - your next career move could be to set up a DBing centre in the UK. You could be a telephone coach!
Lisa - your next career move could be to set up a DBing centre in the UK. You could be a telephone coach!
I'd call to listen to her talk!
(((((Ali)))))
I can't add to the advice, but keep breathing! It's important!
Ali,
I don't know what the rest of friends here advised you. I wont be online for an hour and just wanted to tell you something : Go and don't DB him. Just tell him all you need to tell to be in peace afterwards. You've been whining and complaining about the chance you never got to express yourself. Now you have it. He may not give you another chance for another 6 months. He wants to meet you but that does not change the fact he is dating and he has been away for a year.
You are still missing the point of detaching. IF there ever was a chance for you to be with him, DETACHING IS the only way. It works by actually "causing" you to be more attractive, happier and the greener grass...
Dont you dare come back with a "I wish I had told him..."!!
I hope he talks to you also but I am afraid he may not. i hope these 3 months he hasnt seen you, will give him the courage to be open with you.
I will be thinking of you
M
Ohhh and being open and honest and clear and demanding answers may just be a 180 for you...
I am clerly not able/ready whatever to just say my piece and walk away (sorry mishka!)
I definitely didn't mean to walk away. Just say whatever you need to say or do whatever you need to do. You need to rely on your own instincts for this but NOT try to anticipate his every reaction to what you say. That's what I mean. Whatever you chose to do, be comfortable with it and move FORWARD. You've been stuck too long and I worry for you.
Have a wonderful time tonight!!! Make it fun!
Jeff, tut tut!
[quote]Originally Posted By: JCJ
Lisa - your next career move could be to set up a DBing centre in the UK. You could be a telephone coach!
I'd call to listen to her talk!
I am shocked, please don't ask what she's wearing tho!
Smacked legs for you my boy now go sit on the naughty step,at least until the water is cold enough to shower.
Well guys, thanks btw.. he just called.. didnt sound good, was stuttery, sounded fed up, or nervous, or tired. Said something abuot he was still at his friend J's house and they hadnt been bowling yet and he didnt know how long a game of bowls takes.. (sounds like he wants to/has to call it off) and then said, well shall I give you a ring in a bit and I was a little nervy too and was all, oh, um, ok, sure.. and then he said, he just didnt want me to be hanging around waiting.. (althoug we havent agreed where to meet yet). I said ok and did he want to meet in town? And he said, yes, is that alright? And sounded.. awful.
So, I have NO idea now. It may get cancelled. It may not go well. He may want to meet me to be honest, now he has been with her 3 months (and I contacted him 3 times SUn-Mon and she may have been there and its swkward, so time to set boundaries?) he may just want to see me to be friendly (he sounded nervous/fed up though) or maybe things arent rosey with them.
So now I have NFC. I've had conflicting advice from every single person thats offered an opinion, my mind is blank and I dont know how to handle it and he might cancel or maybe we will meet later.
(((((Ali)))))
Back to breathing, girl!
I wish I knew the answer. My inclination at this point is to follow your heart. What does it say?
So now I have NFC. I've had conflicting advice from every single person thats offered an opinion, my mind is blank and I dont know how to handle it and he might cancel or maybe we will meet later.
Ali it just feels like, that from an online POV I think it falls between go and DB be funny charming etc.
or
go and be honest and tell him just what you feel.
Looks like he is going to cancel anyway, sooooooo why would you want this person for a friend-oh yes past history keyword being past.
When and if he returns to the person you love then rethink your plan.
Ali, please look after yourself you seem to be hell bent on torturing yourself with your mind in such turmoil.
I can see that I would put up with loads if I was in a relationship with Mr Wonderful or Fantastic in bed but I am much more select over my friends.
Did you start the pills at £7.10p per script you had better take them, what did he give you? They take a while to kick in I believe so start now and you can be Miss Don't give a dam by christmas-yehhhh
Hi Jeff! Um, I might be relieved if he cancels, I am not sure tonight is the best night, especially if its going to be rushed, say a 9pm meeting...I would prefer to meet him on the weekend (might be tricky for him?). No idea why he sounded not so good, probably tired and a little nervous I guess. Perhaops he does want to say something to me, which wouldnt be surprising
As for me.. if he sounds that bad, it would be easier for me to say, well hows things, and to say, I have found it hard with the lack of honesty between us and to apologise to him for my part in that. To say that I was very concerned about his depression for most of the year, which made me wary of expresing myself and also, I wasnt wanting to push him. And that this past 3 months I havent been open with him either, becuase I didnt feel as though I could,
Thats all I can think to say. Just talk about my feelings? Not ask him anyting and not mention Helen?
I've been lying in teh bath relaxing, but not really sure if it will happen anyway?
Ali, how about this for a thought.
If you feel that his nervousness,depression etc is related to having to meet you face to face and you love him enough why not tell him how you feel from the heart but that you are happy if he is happy in his new life and leave it open for him to them open up to you.
Does that make sense or do you understand what I mean, baring in mind this might not achieve what you want but what he wants.
Ali,
I guess I'd say it is your call, but if you meet him, I wouldn't beat around the bush w/ him as it would only prolong your agony.
I'd do what naej suggests, tell him the truth from your heart and let him know it is ok for him to go. You can and always will love him, but you won't always be in love with him.
I really hope you do meet and talk w/ him about everything you need to address. If he shrinks away, then he shrinks away. In fact, would you really be surprised if he shrinks away from conflict? Neither would I.
I would be concerned if you chose not to meet up or chose to duck the issue in any way. You've been dying for this and driving yourself mad over it, so now that it is here, you need to do it for yourself.
Maybe you are afraid you will hear that it is, in fact, over and you don't want to hear those words.
You can put it off, but I don't see how it won't make anything any easier on you.
Do it for yourself. Take care of yourself. This meeting has and will be for Ali and not BF. You are the only one left to take care of you right now, so it is up to you to do it.
RTL
No... it is over, I know that. Thats not the same as being brave enough to say it all, the first time I see him after 3 months of not seeing him. This is hard for me, and maybe I need to take it in stages. I have been pretty upset lately, I feel ok right now, I want to see how he is when I see him, to be honest and I wil have to take it from there.
Thats if he doesnt cancel!
Thank you everyine for helping me through this.
...ok he called, sounded lovely, sweet, his old self (arghh!) this is REALLY hard. Clealy, I still love him and he does not love me. I dont know how the hell I am going to get through this, I have to let this man go, wish him well, be happy as you say naej.
Got to go, we are meeting at 8.45 in an old traditional pub. I am very dressed up.. jeans and a low v neck, silk blouse with little ruffled bits on sholders (no sleeves) and hair all done. Oh dear, loolk like I am going on a date. I look good actually!
Sigh.
Good luck. A LOT of people are going to be there with you in spirit.
Good for you Ali! Looking good translates to feeling good and giving you confidence. Use it girl!
Good Luck Princess... !! Show him what he is missing.
K
Good luck, Ali. Do what you need to do tonight.
Just don't allow him to yo-yo you around any more. Who knows? Maybe you'll see him tonight and just "know" and never have to say a thing.
Sometimes the best words are the ones that go unsaid.
I'm w/you, love.
RTL
WOW... ok.. anyone readong my thread? DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE. Appearances are deceptive... we had the big convo and its all as people think, hes in a mess, he has NFC and doesnt know what he is doing and he misses me.
Naej.. yes, I would definetly have this man as my friend, or a husband, if he wasnt so damaged (so its not possible). He was lovely, funny, vert very sweet and I had the best night out.
Kalni...I DID show him what he was missing ! And for the first time in ayear, I CAUGHT HIM CHECKING ME OUT! And not once, but a few times, his eyes strayed and he looked at my top and went to say something (a compliment) and then stopped himself. (i did look good tonight though!) And I was very funny, but he was funnier. We laughed/talked all night, without a breath of a gap.
Everyone else, so much has happened, I cant remember it all and it was VERY emotional. Ok, I'll try, might be a long one. God I am tired.
So, met him, was very early and got settled. He turned up lookign anxious and I soon twigged he is NOT in a good way. He hugged me, which I was relieved at and then I relaxed and for the rest of the night it felt normal,. like us again, no awkwardness at all. Early on, I was brave, no beating around the bush.. he straight off asked me if I was ok, I said, sort of, not really, hadnt been ...I asked him, he said the same, he wasnt ok, okish, but up and down.. i said I was up and down too and he apologised profusely.
I admitteed that I was nervous to see him and that it felt odd as we hadnt seen each other since August and that had been hard for me. He said he was nervous too and very nervous, that he had really wanted to see me and was angsty with his friends, hurring their bowling and they were all looking at him wierd, but he was keen to see me and didnt want to be late. So that went well and then I relaxed.
We then chatted and LAUGHED all night. Later, he was supposed to get the train home, and as he was being so open with me, I figured the best thing was to get him drunk and then he would open up, so he did and I drove him home later.
I told him at some point about my anemia and hair falling out from taht and being stressed and he was very concenrend, but I said it was ok now.
We got on very well, there was total eye contact, and we were leaning right in to one another and close and he seemed excited to be with me, very animated, very funny and almost trying to impress me. At one point, he was telling such a funny story about having Monster Munch crisps on his fingers, taht I was laughing so much I started crying!!! He was upset and I kept lauhgning and crying and said "I miss you. I miss your humour. Noone makes me laugh like you do" and then wiped the tears and we kept chatting. He was very srry for upsetting me - this was a theme of the evening and I did my best to say, its ok.
His friend joined us (yay!) at 10.30 and that was relaxed. So at theis point, I didnt think he is still with her (he is). He told me sooo much about being out with this and that person and that he goes to bed at 10 everty night lately as he is so tired and that he got a TV for his bedroom, which is bad, as he stopped reading books and now watches Polic, Camera, Action! and lots of other bits and bobs, which made me think he isnt with her anymore. This gave me confidence and I was bright and vivaciius and relaxed and funny.
... so, I drove them both back to J's flat, I let J out of the backseat and my ex made no move to get out.. so I knew he wanted to talk (he was drunk, which was the only way he was likely to). So then.. now I cant remember much as it was so full on and emotional, all out, cards on table, nearly an hour.. we both cried throughout hte whole of it. In terms of DBing it was a total disaster, but then I thnk Dbing can be damaging beyond a certain pooint.
Um.. he is still with her.. I bought it up I think ..he said he didnt want to upset me, he said he was a wimp, a coward for not talkijg to me, he wasnt angry at that girl who did, he was angry at himself for not being able to.. he said, he couldnt upset me. He only referred to Helen as in terms of "Well, you know stuff has happened... "
He said he didnt go looking for it, it just happened.. it begain in August at a work do (I wanted to ask more questions here but I was too upset). i said, but you told me the previous summer you werent interested in her and I believed you. He said emphatically, he wasnt interested in her then.. and that he hadnt thught I did believe him.. I said, no, I did.. which is why it was such a shock when you got together with her.
He said, it wasnt planned, or expected, it just happened. at one point, he worryingly said, and now I am in too deep and I dont know how to reverse it, or something like that, and I said, in too deep, what do you mean, for you, or for me, or for her, or for all three of us? And he said, yes, for all three of us.. and then I looked mortified (as perhaps he meant they have feelings for each other?) and he got very stressed and cried alot and tore at his hair and said "I shouldnt have said that!!" and he was so sorry and repeatedly said he was a worthless c*nt (!) and he didnt mean it and it wasnt fair or the right thing to say and that he was sick of upsetting people.. I said, you told me all of this in July, who were you upsetting then and now? he said his Mum then (which is what he said in July) and now me.
He kept saying how nice it was too see me, really emphatic, how he really had wanted to see me.. and its been really nice and every time he said it, he would start crying. He said he had really enjoyed it and he wanted to see me the past 3 months but didnt think he should, because he had upset me because "stuff has happened". He wants to be in touch with me.
I asked him if it was easier to not see me/contact me, or harder and he said it was hard to, that he had wanted to. I thkn I said I missed his company and he said he missed mine. Then I said at least we agreed and we had another big hug.. mainly, I kept taking his hand and once or twice, we both locked both hands with each other, sort of upright, if you see what I mean and he cried the whole time and we hugged alot, and he stared at me alot with real emotion and torment, but that was all.
WOW
That's quite a convo.
I'd expect him to withdraw/cave a bit after that.
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
What do you want Ali?
(((((((BIG HUGS)))))))
(Sorry, this is for my sake, to remember when I wake up) so...
Early on, he bought up something I was going to ask.. he offered me a lift back home when he drives home Friday to go on holiday! He also told me what trains to get back, to save money. So I accepted... so thats 4 huors in the car with him. He said he will phone me to sort out the lift, but when I pressed him on whether I could speakl to him/see him this weekend, he said he was seeing his friend J.
In the car, he told me he is moving into J's house in January, in a spare room, to save money. I was upset to hear this, but realistocally, its better than moving in with her, so I guess thats a relief. Its a little bit further away from here.
We talked about the morgages and he was very relieved to hear we dont have to pay much and again, he has no interest in talking about all this, so I will forget that now!
So I said but we had been spending alot of time together, alot and it had been increasing, and he calmlu said, I know, we were and he agreed that he had enjoyed spending time with me...and I asked him, so I was very confused, contact was increasing and then suddenly it stopeed in August.. and he said thats when "stuff happened" with her and when I asked him how he could stop contact overnight like that and go from daily, to none for 2 months, he started crying again and couldnt speak and said some words along the lines of guilt and upsetting me I think.
I said, how come he could just switch direction like that, was it somethig I did? And he repeatedly said I hadnt done anything wrong, not at all, it was nothing to do with me, please DONT apologise, you have nothing to apologise for, yuo are not responsible, stuff happened and I dont know what I am doing now, or why I am doing it.. I am, I am just 'being'.. I cant explain and I have no idea (NFC!). I havent made any concious decisions and cant, stuff just happened and still happens to me. I said, but seeing me alot, then doing that and stopping contact WAS a decision of sorts.. but he said it wasnt concious at all and now he didnt know what he wanted.
Oh yes.. I remember he said, he thought he did, he said, I thought this is ok, this is what I want, I know what I am doing, but he realised he didnt and has no idea. He cried alot.
He talked about his depression. He's in a very bad way. He said, I'm pointless, I'm nothing, forget me (this was very worrying) forget about me, I'm dead. I do stuff, but whats the point? I'm a muppet, all I do is go down the pub, drink pints and make people laugh, I have that real, whats the point of it all? I watch myself doing stuff and I think, why bother? Whats the point?
He is still getting C. He said he is worried.. he came off the ADs and nosedived, really badly. He said he has been this way his whole life, since he was about 1 he thinks.
I said alot of stuff about being worried about him and there for him.. but I also pushed the point.. I dont understand how you started a R with her if you are as bad as you say you are and what does she think about it all? He said straight off.. OH, I put on the full front to her! I said "REALLY!?" he said, oh yes, of course, she doesnt see this, well, unless I am drunk, or tired and then I cant keep the mask up and then she sees this. I said, but hows that going then?? He said, well, not well at all.
I couldnt believe he actually admitted all this to me. Unbelieveable. I cried alot too and several times told him I was scared, that he wouldnt want to see me now after this and he didnt understand that and kept saying it was fine. I told him I hadnt been honest all year and how I regretted that and it was still hard for me and I apologised for the 2 "dbing" emails I sent him and he admitted it was a bit odd, but it was ok, I explained I was trying to be dignified/respectful, but of course it was a shock as I didnt know she was around, he said again "stuff just happened". I was very anxious about the whole thing, but it was like a runaway train...
He repeated it was so good to see me and cried some more then left and said he'd call me (!!!)
So.. cant remember how, but I said, so.. are you still in a relationship with her then? He said..um.. I guess.. I said, you are? He said.. well...yes... and looked very guilty. So that was a blow. He is still with her. That was hard. Not surprising though.
Its got a bit confused, but he kept repeating he HAD wanted to see me.. and then crying.. oh and I asked him if it was ok for him to see me, or difficult now.. and he shrugged and looked confused by the question and said he hadnt really talked to her at all about me (!). Doesnt sound like they have any kind of real, honest, loving R. Sounds like he is desperate and she made a play for him and he just went for it. In fact, he said as much, he said, its like it just happened to him, really cr*p, but not concious at all, no effort on his part to make it happen. It was at a work do.
I got very upset at this point.. I thought.. 10 years of my life and you're saying "It just happened at a work do" !?? Oh well.
Hey Michelle.
I am very very worried about him. He sounded and looks suicidal again to be honest. I dont think he is in love with her, but he is clearly not wanting to end it yet. He did say, he thought he knew what he wanted and he was doing the right thing, but then he wasnt sure now and didnt know and then said it was so good to see me and he really had enjoyed it alot and it had been so nice.. and started crying again.
I want him to end it with her. Move to his friend J's. Go for C more intensively. Talk to me more, be my friend and hopefully we would reunite by, say next summer.. once he is 'better'.
Hmm.. there goes a pig past the window.
I have to tell you all, I had a LOVELY evening, he was so kind and sweet and charming.. and SO funny. He's the funniest man I have ever known. I made him laugh too. I said to him in teh car, crying, when he said he was worthless...but you are wonderful and that made him say NO I'M NOT and start crying again.
I have no idea if tonight was good or bad, or what kind of tailspin I will end up in now, but it had to be done hey !!! I'm proud of me. Ok, KNACKERED. Thoughts anyone!!??
Blimey. What a night.
..oh and I stressed that I wasnt angry at him, that I was forgiving, that I would have understood, that I knew he has been through a big depression and is still not ok.. but when he twice said about not knowing how to fix it, I stopped short of saying, we can fix it! Or.. dump her, we can sort this out! I just couldnt say any of that, so sat quiet. But stressed I was there for him and eventhough he felt he "shouldnt" speak to me, I told him he could talk to me anytime, I was always here for him.
I am worried about what he said about nosediving badly and he said he had a real "whats the point of it all?" thing. He also lingered when he left, looking back longingly at me, until I drove off. That was a new one!
..cant sleep, god this is so much to take in. I remember I said something like, then either she is very special or I am not so special or soemthing and he didnt answer, but something else about him not being interested in her last summer (he was very keen to stress he wasnt then) but I said, I guess things changed then this summer and then you were more interested.. and he said, well, yes..so I got upset then and he did too, and I was worried for quizzing him and he actually said that he was happy to talk about it and answer my questions but he was just worried that it was upsetting for me. So I didnt push it, as it was !
Judging by the guilty frown that crossed his face when I asked him about Dylan Moran.. I thikn he took her!!
He also said he was crazy.. and then cried.. he wasnt joking, he's ok one minute, then his head goes mad, sparking, crazy. He said this back in July, so he is no better, he looked worse actually, he looked in bad shape. WTF must she be seeing in him??? He says he puts on a full front to her.. what, are her 5 senses in a lead box!?? You can see he is distressd. I dont get it.
Ali, first of all, stop with the assumptions. He may have taken about 100 other people. It does no good to assume. Does it change anything if he did? If not, let it go.
((((((Ali)))))))
Take some tea with valerian root in it or something sweetie and get some sleep.
((((((Ali)))))))
WHOA!!!!!! WHOA!!!!!!! WHOA!!!!!! What a mess he is. It sounds like you had a good convo with him. I'm glad for that. Too bad it had to happen after a lot of drinking, that doesn't make for very coherent conversation.
Did you get anything that you really wanted out of this conversation Ali?
((((((Ali))))))
I think you did fine, Ali! You found things you wanted to know. You enjoyed time with him. DBing has lots of different forms. It isn't the same thing all the time. This was certainly a 180!
OK, here we go, I think you know all this, but....
His relationship with Helen isn't anything. He is depressed, self esteem in the dumpster. She just took advantage of the situation, and he went with it. Each time he drops the mask, I expect it gets closer to ending.
He is still really depressed! I always expected this, now you know. The dive when he went off the ADs really supports that. You are right, he needs a lot of professional help with that, probably more work to get the right drugs going, and a lot of counseling!
I don't know if he can ever come back to you. He is carrying a lot of guilt, you might forgive him, but I don't know that he can forgive himself. In any case, it won't be until he gets a lot better depression-wise. Now that you have re-established contact, you may be able to be his friend again. For now, that's that best you can hope for, and probably the best for him. He doesn't need a romantic relationship with anyone. Friends, on the other hand, are probably something he could really use.
I hope you get some sleep, Ali!
Wow! I hope you were able to get a lot of what you needed from this tonight.
I completely agre w/ Jeff as he is an absolute mess. The last thing he needs is romance. He needs help and he may not ever be in a position to forgive himself.
I'm concerned you may switch into "rescue mode" and try and save him, which would put you right back where you started from. I'm also concerned you may continue to wait for him to come around again when in fact, he may never come around again.
This was so incredibly revealing for you, but scary to learn none-the-less.
Get some rest then I'll check back on you tomorrow and see what your reflections may be.
I'm glad you got your meeting and I'm in your corner as always.
RTL
Wow - Ali, What an R talk!!! Puts mine to shame. A few things I found interesting. First, when your H said, he's in too deep. Jody told me that if my H had an OW, that he would feel he had passed the bridge of no return with me. So your H confirms that. My opinion, just drop the OW issue for now. Remember, the OW was only the vehicle for him to leave. He needed something positive & for whatever reason she was it. (I never knew who my H's OW was or maybe still is - but I suspect a co-worker, who became his roommate. & now from what little he has told me - they are not friends & she moved out).
When my H first left, he said he felt angry & guilty at himself. Yours sounds that way too. My guess is that men are not honest at times because they don't want to hurt us women. Ofcourse they are not seeing the big picture, only what is in front of their face at the moment. So - ofcourse he doesn't want to hurt OW either. Does your H run away from other problems as well?
Put the patient pent in your pocket & wait it out. He has to figure this out for himself. I think his R is ready to blow up. If he will let you, just be his happy carefree friend & show him fun times.
Your R talks were great, but I would back off w/them & let them sink in.
You know I have read what happened. Checked first thing in the morning. I am not sure what I want to say just yet. Because I am not sure you would like what I want to say... I'll think about it some more. I will post later.
Hope you are OK
xxx
K
Ditto to Kalni's post. Not like me to be stuck for words!
I am shocked or surprised and also unsure what to say. I know you will be going over it with a fine tooth comb
so will just keep reading.
I have a feeling you will come up with your own conclusions.
I am really pleased you had a good night though.
I am concerned he wasn't sober tho' when all this was said maybe a good thing-trying to be positive here.
I will wait and see.
((())))
Yes Ali, I just finally caught up. Knew something happened after your post to me this am. Just wait. Wait and see. But don't stop your life. You know what I mean.
I'm just amazed. And beyond this I really don't know what to say right now.
Hey girls..SORRY FOR THE LONG POSTS! just got in, busy day. I dont know what to say either! Shocking yes. I am not that surprised how it went.. me and my BFF said, if me and him talk we will probably just cry the whole time (we did, him more than me, we had to share a tissue and then went onto sleeves!).
Besides the depression, me and him have zero chance whilst he chooses to be with her (couldnt get to the bottom of why he stays with her, even if it did start drunk at a work do)...it got late, 1am, he needed the toilet. I'd have liked to ask more about it. I am also unclear about his feelings for her, but he did say, he wasnt sure what he was doing now, or if it was what he wanted, or what he wanted. He is very very lost and tormented and the look in his eyes made me want to weep. He is having a breakdown I think.
He said it had been good to work so hard lately as it gave him something to think of and be tired, else he is left thinking whats the point of it all. I dont think I am being melodramatic, he looks bad.
My Mum said to me that men do this and then feel like they cant go back... they worry about leaving the ow ironically, that they will hurt their feelings and they worry too much damage has been done to you...its too late to go back, so why even try? I couldnt believe her, but seems, that is how it is! He was saying something like, he didnt know how to get out of it, however he thought about it, he would be upsetting someone. This makes me mad (I didnt show it) as how can he compare a 3 month R to a 10 year connection!!? Its not comparable. BUT.. he has already hurt me, its done, he doesnt have to redo that does he.
He is still with her. He also said, he wasnt sure it was what he wanted and he didnt know what he was doing, but it had been REALLY good to see me, lovely..which was so nice to hear. So I think he is weighing it up, but he's in such a mess, I cant see it ending it with her. He needs to though, and be on his own !!!
She is, as Jody and my other two C's said, probably in love with him, probably into him all year and she was the one that pounced on him at the office do (yes Jeff, he was vunerable and no doubt very very drunk). My ex is very honourable (never had a one night stand, doesnt flirt with womab, never picked up a girl in a bar, only slept with a few long terms gf's..) so for him, crossing that line was it. Thats what he said "But stuff has happened... " and I knew he meant...I have had s*x with her.
I am worried, he is either in danger of, or nearly is, suicidally depressed. As for me an him, no chance whilst he is in this state. All I can do is be there for him, be his compassionate friend.
Yes that is all you can do. Also they feel like they can't go back, but by being there being his friend, that could change as he starts to feel better. I hope he doesn't do anything dramatic.
Yep, all you can do is be his friend.
You can't fix it.
You can't rescue him.
((((((Ali))))))))
Ali, I think your mum is right, mine more or less said the same thing at one point.
Just be a friend, you can do no more and you certainly can't fix or rescue him unless he asks for help.
Friendship must work both ways... Dont you dare sit around and put your life on hold until he feels better, if he ever does...
Even if you continue to be "friends" you need to set boundaries for him to respect you.
xxx
K
Ali,
I can't agree w/ Kalni more:
Friendship must work both ways... Dont you dare sit around and put your life on hold until he feels better, if he ever does...
Even if you continue to be "friends" you need to set boundaries for him to respect you.
This is my greatest fear w/ your sitch...that you will stop living for you and wait for him.
That is dangerous for you and a cheese-less tunnel as well.
RTL
I wonder what his reaction would have been if you'd said, "you didn't have a problem leaving me." Maybe OW's a bit of a mess herself, or is playing like one in order to guilt-trip him into staying with her. Doesn't really matter, though. I'm with Kalni and RTL-- don't put your life on hold for him.
Hi everyone..thankyou so much for your thought and for reading all this nonsense!
..I wont resuce, but I KNOW he wouldnt talk to anyone else like that or show them the man behind the mask, not even his two BMF.. I suspect he is almost suicidal again. You cant walk away from someone who is suicidally depressed and confiding in you.. I will do what the books on depression say, just 'be there' for him. I have been his BF for 12 years and I still will be, even if we are no longer together. Its ok, I get it. I dont think he can give me anything anymore. I told him, I am always here for you, you can call me anytime. I cant expect him to and he's with her now, so I cant do much anyway!
Andabelle.. I think OW is defo a mess! Probably in love with him, not enlightened and not good for him. I think he did have a problem leaving though, he was racked with guilt and suicidally depressed within 1-2 months of moving out! He still did it though. I dont really understand what the last year or so has been about??
So tonight.. I dragged my BMF out and a girl from college and we met the mature students network and had a ball! We went for drinks and food and I have to admit I was very funny and had the whole group laughing all night! Made me realise THATS what he loved about me, and who could blame him! I got chatted up by a hot Italian visiting (yay) and it felt good. I felt happy and alive. Thats 2 nights in a row of laughter
x
Yes Kel.. amazing hey. Like you say, wait and see. HA!...my stars for tommorow! (Kalni!??)
The moods and self-perpetuated drama that another continues to cook up is slightly interesting, mildly entertaining, but nearly always has a very short shelf life. A little of this 'poor me' nonsense goes an awfully long way. While your friend, ex or frenemy continues to writhe in self-induced victimization (real or imagined) you see the pattern, feel bored and detach. It's an organic process. There's no effort or action required on your part. You simply let go of the rope and allow Ms. or Mr. Poor Me to fly away home - without you. Feels good, doesn't it?
Good for you Ali! Two nights of jocularity! Awesome!
Ali,
I have never posted to you but I've been reading your thread for months now.
What an excellent explanation yuor Mum gave, you are so lucky to have her by your side!
My Mum said to me that men do this and then feel like they cant go back... they worry about leaving the ow ironically, that they will hurt their feelings and they worry too much damage has been done to you...its too late to go back, so why even try? I couldnt believe her, but seems, that is how it is! He was saying something like, he didnt know how to get out of it, however he thought about it, he would be upsetting someone. This makes me mad (I didnt show it) as how can he compare a 3 month R to a 10 year connection!!? Its not comparable. BUT.. he has already hurt me, its done, he doesnt have to redo that does he.
My H has told me pretty much the same thing. He wouldn't have started it now, but since it happened - there is nothing he can do about it. It's too late.
I don't know if friendship is really the answer here. For me friendship is sacred and I can hardly pretend that I'm in a "frienship mode". Friends don't hurt each other so brutally, neither they betray or lie. I can easily forgive my H, already did, but it seems impossible for me to be friends with him. And his attempts to stomp on my heart gently just make it worse.
Then again, if you really feel that compassionate friendship, may be you can do it.
PS.
After I posted I noticed the new thread by Puppy Dog Tails "Should you be their best friend?"!
Can't wait for the discussion to unfold!
Ali,
I've been following along, eager to hear how everything went with him the other night, and...I don't even know what to say. Wow...just...intense!! How do you feel now about him/yourself/your R/OW?
..I wont resuce, but I KNOW he wouldnt talk to anyone else like that or show them the man behind the mask, not even his two BMF.. I suspect he is almost suicidal again. You cant walk away from someone who is suicidally depressed and confiding in you.. I will do what the books on depression say, just 'be there' for him. I have been his BF for 12 years and I still will be, even if we are no longer together. Its ok, I get it. I dont think he can give me anything anymore. I told him, I am always here for you, you can call me anytime. I cant expect him to and he's with her now, so I cant do much anyway!
Ali, as you know, I have been suicidal to one degree or another for a very large chunk of my life--the prospect has not completely left me for any length of time since I was 13. The best thing for him, if he is depressed/suicidal again (and it does recur in a lot of people) is if he would get medical/psych treatment for what he is going through. All you can do is to encourage him to consult the doctors and what you have already done--tell him you are there for him anytime. However, you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT take on responsibility for his state of mind in a long-term fashion. In an emergency, yes, you do what has to be done to get through it. But in the long run, a person with depression has to take on the burden of managing it himself, with suitable medical help. This is not to say that you can't express concern or give your opinion. But in the final analysis...we depressives have to save ourselves. It is too much to expect anyone else to be responsible for our lives. After almost 30 years of living with my depression, I finally learned this. Does this make sense or am I talking gibberish?
So...I am thrilled for you that you finally had your big talk that you have been so focused on for months, and got a lot of things out on the table. I hope that this enables you to get out of this place where you have been "stuck" emotionally, constantly analyzing every action or non-action by him and what it means, and get on with being fabulous ALI!
Peace and blessings,
Dawn
P.S. In the midst of all the turmoil...how's your NaNo wordcount?
Lesson for the day: life goes on its merry way regardless of emotional blowouts, breakups, etc...and you can STILL win at NaNo!
Ali, What an excellent explanation yuor Mum gave, you are so lucky to have her by your side
My Mum said to me that men do this and then feel like they cant go back... they worry about leaving the ow ironically, that they will hurt their feelings and they worry too much damage has been done to you...its too late to go back, so why even try? I couldnt believe her, but seems, that is how it is! He was saying something like, he didnt know how to get out of it, however he thought about it, he would be upsetting someone. This makes me mad (I didnt show it) as how can he compare a 3 month R to a 10 year connection!!? Its not comparable. BUT.. he has already hurt me, its done, he doesnt have to redo that does he.
My H has told me pretty much the same thing. He wouldn't have started it now, but since it happened - there is nothing he can do about it. It's too late.
I cross-posted with Stella, so wanted to quickly respond to this! My H said more or less the same thing, except that he didn't really say he wouldn't do it now (how could he? he'd just been with her only hours before this conversation!!). During the bomb conversation, he kept talking about how he didn't want to hurt OW, especially since she had always had trouble attracting men because of her weight--even though he'd only met her in person 3 days earlier and hadn't known she existed 4 months earlier! Not a word about not wanting to hurt ME, or concern about MY feelings...although we had been together for 22 years! Yep, something is screwy here!!! I don't think it's just men though...SirPrizeMe's W seems to have given him a similar speech.
Peace,
Dawn
Morning Ali, or maybe I should say afternoon as you are 6 hours ahead.
Did you read Julie Dembroski, I almost fell out of the chair. I had woken up, 2x4's myself and then read what she had posted. Dumbfounded.
Natal charts, synastry, alwasy believed in all of that but I am still amazed at how the planetary shifts can be so accurate.
Have a good day!
Kalni.. good morning back! I 'got it' btw, with the present thing.
Stella - Hi! I think whats interesting about my thread now is, some of us have read with interest when WAS come back and the truth comes out..but my ex was willing to speak the truth eventhough he isnt back! Its a shame we didnt have more time, as I know he would have answered everything. I cant quite believe how these men all behave in such cliche'd ways, but seems that they do, if yuor H and others have said that too!
And in answer to you, and Naej, yes, I am and hopefully will be his friend and thats separate to anything to do with wanting him/getting him back. I dont think thats possible.
Dawn, thankyou.. I am so glad he is going for C still and is keen to and I understand I cant 'do' this for him, and I am standing back.. but I wanted him to know I am THERE, anytime, if he needs someone. He is sooo ingrained at wearing the mask, he starts a new R and says he is "putting on the full front to her" - that speaks volumes about OUR connection that he would admit that to me. There is noone else in his life he would do. I just will continue to be a loving friend, but one that cant really offer help/company, its not my place now? Amazing your H said that to, and SirPrize me and Naej and others. INSANE! Isnt it.
Kelaroon.. I want to get back to you after lunch, YES! Amazing. Which post exactly did you mean though?
Hey Kel! I love her site since I found it and thought you would too. i only realised after I met him on the 18th, the Leo moon was conjunct the South Node in Leo in my 7th house...
julie Demboski pretty amazing.
I also read the Virgo thing. Theres so much coming to a head right now. i think Dawn said that my talk with him sounded pretty intense and it absolutely was. We were staring at one another, in a way (he certainly was) where its like you are staring into someones soul, it was a real soul connection and all that crying. So whats next??? I wish I had better access to him, I feel this is a window to purge stuff before its too late.
So feeling a little strange. I got so many answers and yet, inevitably, that either made the gaps glaringly bigger in my mind, or created new questions. I wish I understood WHY he spent all that time with me (as he admitted he was enjoying it) and then decided to start an R with her, instead of come back to me. I dont get that. I believe he is not in love with her. Its telling he is moving to a shared house in January - when we got together, he wanted to live with me straight away. It wasnt accidental or drunken, it had been love at first sight and then he wooed me with compilation tapes and lots and lots of conversation.
His "I am in too deep" comment worried me too. I guess he's stuck with her now. I feel different after talking to him and I WISH we had done it sooner. In fact, I could have pushed it at any point since April, but I didnt because of DBing, but in that, I forgot that me and him have always talked and connected on a soul level, like I said and he was happy to be there for me, I could tell, and answer my questions. I feel him gone now and the anxiety of that has faded. I am now just left missing him and worrying about him, I have to admit. i wish we could turn the clock back and I would have done things differently, or to turn the clock forward and him to be out of this depression. That could take years, if ever though, unless he gets more help.
Lastly, strangely I am worried for him, about what my intuition is telling me about whats coming and he will have a major fork in the road/soul choice to make Dec/Jan.
Yes there is. As far as other R, testing the waters and honestly, if I had said those words, "in too deep", for me it would mean not something I really want but don't know how to get out. IMO.
Maybe that is what his fork will be, realizing he needs some help. Just be there if he lets you, and see what happens.
The "in too deep" comment seems to be rampant. When I asked Gabe if this D is what he really wanted he said, "I guess so since it's already gotten this far. I don't really know what I want."
They are all on some script! I'm convinced.
You sound so much better now Ali. Clearer, not whiny at all. That's wonderful.
You sound so much better now Ali. Clearer, not whiny at all.
No longer whiny?? HAHAHA.. um, thanks Mishka, I think !?
So, I am off out again tonight (yay!) with his BMF J and Gf C,to band night.
Got a text from my ex earlier saying how good it was to see me the other night, that he was very tired yesterday and hung over all day and that he would email me when he's back in the office.
So that was nice!
And I had a lovely day at college on my group crit, which went well..and me and the boys all went to lunch. My work is about planets right now, a girl asked me after if I could help her make sense of things. So I offered to do her a reading and its my first paid customer !!! (I have had two other requests last week too!) She is a leo, born 21st August... same as my ex! She says she feels lost and confused and like she doesnt know who she is or what she wants.. I said I suspect she is having a Neptune transit, I know he is soon and I wondered if it had hit yet, so sounds like it has, if thats how she feels. Interesting.
No longer whiny?? HAHAHA.. um, thanks Mishka, I think !?
You know, that didn't sound quite right. I should never rush when writing these things!
I meant to say that it sounded like you were feeling more confident and decisive.
((((Ali))))
A paying customer is GREAT! Hope you have a great time tonight,
L. xx
Hope you had a wonderful time last night. I'll love to hear all about the jocularity when you get up sweetie!
Hey girls!
I had a FAB night out! Luke Skywalker, me, ex's BMF G and gf C. I am getting on SO well with her now, we are becoming firm friends, which is great as she is a big ole gorgeous fun Leo.
So.. found more out (they said they are rooting for me!) and they invited me to Glastonbury with them next year, which is great. My ex was going too, with Helen, but he changed his mind (dont know why, probably becuase he is unsure what he is doing and as C said, becuase they cant stand Helen!).
So..C told me she apparently looks just like me! Ugh, too wierd. Same height, same build, same figure, same hair length, style, colour and looks a BIT like me, but not as pretty. Shes very immature, doesnt act 29, acts very young and she.. downs pints one after the other (oh dear god.. Lisa, doesnt the aub do that???).
When G met her, he told C she was ok, funny. I was sad at this, but C told me she said, no way, you cant say that! what about Al!? So G explained, SHES not funny, they were basically laughing AT her (!?). The first time he met her she told G that she once went to a party and had sex with TWO different men, in the same night!!!! What a thing to tell someone you have just met and that being your new bf's BMF!?
Oh my god. G was NOT impressed. I think we can safely work out what my ex sees in her. I posted about his Venus-Pluto transit and that translates as being sexually obsessed by someone, or mixed up with a femme fatale figure that is using you for sex and its not a love match. Got that right! He is probably miserable and in hell, but having great s*x. Oh well. It would hurt more if he is in love with her, which he isnt.
G told me...she is awful. He thinks he is going through a phase and theres no way that it will last with her and shouldnt. He said he doesnt know what he's playing at. Its all so cliche'd hey?
He told me my ex used to talk to him about me ALL the time..what to do about me, how he felt...that he loves me to bits (!) and that we are connected (I keep going on about that! I'm surprised that my ex used that word), that we have this amazing connection and that he never wants to lose it (!) and that me and him spark off each other like noone else. G said he kept saying to him, well WTH are you playing at then!?? Sort it out, you fool! And he said that apparently, its to do with him having a spin out about his age, and dying and feeling old ! (oh for goddsakes). G said he also seems to have gone to a really wierd place this year (which is what my ex told me), gone into a wierd MLC, or crisis and he is not ok.
At this point I told him my ex is now NOT ok again. He agreed he seems to have gone downhill. He said the last time he saw him (2 weeks ago?) my ex rushed up to him and greeted him like he was his long lost brother and was very excited to see him and over emaotional, he said it was very odd, almost embarresing. I picked up on that too on Tuesday when I saw him, he was relieved and excited to see me. Hmm...think Helens not really filling a void hey guys?
So I told him he is in very bad shape and please keep an eye on him for me, and talk to him. He said he is seeing him as soon as he gets back off holiday. So I was relieved to hear that.
My ex is like some cardboard cutout storyboard cliche hammy character in a film !!!?
I had a great night out though, good band, played some pool, laughed alot. I really am feeling A-OK!
I had a great night out though, good band, played some pool, laughed alot. I really am feeling A-OK!
That's all I care about. I dont give a damn about him or her at this point. Just as we keep saying to Bbj, you cant fix your xBF, you cant do anything other than what he allows you to.
I am so glad you feel better and you know what? It shows in your posts. Keep it this way...
Love and many many kisses
K
I had a great night out though, good band, played some pool, laughed alot. I really am feeling A-OK!
Good! That's all that really matters, isn't it. That you are doing well and you don't choose to dwell on the sitch anymore, but what you have done for yourself over this last year! Good work Ali!
Ha, you girls are funny! I DID have a good night out! Bit hungover though...
I was amazed at the things I have heard this week. It was important to me. This has been an incredibly painful journey the last 18 months...it was very healing for me to sit and cry with him and see the remorse in his eyes. And also.. did anyone pick up on the fact he said, he was thikning what to do, but whatever he does he will upset someone... but me and him arent together anymore! and havent been for a year and arent M, yet the whole way he was talking, it was as though we were still together and he has a choice and its like he is being unfaithful. So, I was right, we are still emotionally connected.
Also, it sunk into today what G told me.. that my ex told him he "loved me to bits".. as at the bomb, I got the whole IDLYA. Not ILWYBINILWYA.. no, he was very clear, adamant even back then, just IDLYA.
So.. confirmation.. what they say at the bomb is BS!
Plus, its lovely to know he does love me. Although, I know we still may not ever reunite.
Had a brilliant C session today, about endings, and being on the edge.. that he is on an edge (and she agreed that he does sound possibly suicidal) and he has a choice, but this is very much death and rebirth stuff right now. Its about getting past that edge and accepting and moving into the next phase of your life.
Its also amazing that our/my RL friends family were right.. as G said, he is freaking out about getting older and fear of dying. Its so textbook MLC! He did watch his Dad dying, in a coma, over 2-3 months.
And the things I heard about her, are absolutely textbook with the stuff I have been saying about the sort of woman he would get involved with, this loose, unhealthy Pluto-Venus figure.
So.. feel like now, I pretty much have my questions answered, so thats why I feel miles better.
[quote] [/Plus, its lovely to know he does love me. Although, I know we still may not ever reunite.quote]
Ali, I think we often have connections with people that have meant much to us in the past. I had experienece of this a while back when I met up with an old friend after a 30 yr no contact -save Christmas card, it was like we had never been apart after about 5 minutes!We intuitively knew what the other was going to say etc.
I am happy you are feeling questions have been answered, I am not in favour of listening or at least putting too much store in what friends tell you, jmo. I am glad that you heard he loves you, I am sure he does.
I am not sure you really believe the bit in blue! Keep living life for you.
I do believe it. I'm getting a lot of this lately.. my C says, its like people dont trust me, and they need to.
Plus... his friends were shocked we own all this property still, that he doesnt mention it and he continues to treat it as 'ours' - we talked on Tuesday about it and he has zero plans to split our finances. We are not out of contact and I believe we are connected and I am not giving up yet, but I know its a BIG long shot.
...and HAHAHAHAA.. think I ought to post this on my own thread too !
I was out with Luke Skywalker last night, he was smoking hot. Nice mop chop, very lovely dark fitted wool coat with the collar up, smile that could light up China..and he put The Undertones Teenage Kicks on when we got in the car...if he was willing, I'd have snogged him! (I felt like a giddy schoolgirl around him!)
.. he works as an Occupational Therapist, but is training to be a Lawyer in the evenings and is nearly qualified. I felt strangely disappointed when he told me he might move to London in the New Year...
We chatted for ages about college and music and there is definetly something there. He's just moved to a remote rustic cottage in a little village by the sea.. he said his housemates (doctors) are always out and he makes a big fire and has it all to himself and he loves that he is just metres from the sea..
I have to admit, I felt a little bit in love with him right then. I felt my ovaries groaning ! He's only 26 though.. he sort of went "hmm" when I said I was 37. Hey ho!
Gosh he has a lovely smile though..and is a lovely sweet guy. But then, so is my ex.
G and C kept saying that last night about my ex.. "he's a lovely, lovely man"
Ali,
you make me laugh right when I need it. You always do that. Thank you!!
K
Get that damn Skywalker and may the force be with you!!
Ali,
A few things...
Great news that you've been going out again! That is what you need, my dear.
Also, you mentioned hearing the "in too deep" phrase often, well, my XW did say it as well in July when she began acting like she was considering coming back. When I said we don't have to do this (divorce) she said "What? And have me lose my dignity? It is too late now." I replied it is never too late and I don't care what others say, but only what she says, thinks, and feels and she tearfully ended the conversation. Her next decision was to tell me we were getting "too close" and she was messed up and we were no longer allowed to talk about anything other than D...then she slept w/ the apartment manager and the rest is history.
So, you are hearing things that pretty par for the course for all of us. The difference is that some of those that left will have the courage to try and return despite feeling like it is "too late" while the others who lack the courage (re: my XW) will run further, farther, and faster. It remains to be seen which one your BF is going to turn out to be. I'm hoping for the courageous one.
Finally, I mentioned it to you before, but you weren't ready for him then, so I'll bring it back out for you now...
Keep in touch w/ "Luke Skywalker" and maybe you'll get to play w/ his lightsaber. If so, you may want to put your hair in double buns like Princess Leia to complete the role play fantasy.
As Kalni said, "May the Force be w/ you!"
RTL
Keep in touch w/ "Luke Skywalker" and maybe you'll get to play w/ his lightsaber
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! Classic Rob. Funny man.
Sorry guys, but he is just too damn young, too good looking and kinda not my destiny/out of my league? (but ok, he'd do nicely on the pillow next to me!
)
I did make him laugh, alot though. Humour breaks through "leagues"...think Peter Sellers/Britt Ekland, Woody Allen/Mia Farrow, Shrek... Not that I'm THAT ugly !
Yes, Rob, it remains to be seen. I have heard lots of encouraging things this week though and of course he took me out for a drink and hugged me and cried alot, which is extrodinary in itself! And offered to drive me home Friday. I wouldnt do those things with my ex.. and they said, Helen probably doesnt know ahout it.
In fact, I am a little deflated at the muted responses on my thread! This is the biggest development since January... last June 07!? The FIRST honest conversation we have had and the most tears. Also.. his BMF G said he met him for a drink 2 weeks ago.. then went on to say "Al, I dont want to give you false hope, I wouldnt if I thought there wasnt any, I wouldnt do that to anyone, theres nothing worse than being in limbo, waiting for someone, BUT.. I'm telling you.. you should hang in there..wait and see"
I said, but he is still with her and unlikely to end it with her? He just looked at me.. with a .. I wouldnt be so sure-face. He also said, he is going through a phase, trust me, it wont last with her... But.. theres intention and then theres action. And yes, he said he was in too deep.
So, I am guessing my ex said SOMETHING to him. Perhaps expressed some confusion/unhappiness. This guy is a totally reliable source, he is very emotionally open and my ex confides in him like no one else.
Ali,
I can't speak for others, but I know I'm reserved b/c I'm afraid you'll keep waiting for him to step up and he never will. Now, that doesn't mean I want you to give up on him at all.
Instead, I'm hoping you'll do what you said and not try to rescue him and then keep doing what you are saying as far as going out and having fun. That is what will keep you going and help to give you perspective on a lot of things.
As for the development itself, I do think it is a tremendous break-through. I hope he continues to follow up w/ his own therapy along w/ communications w/ you. Have you two talked since then?
Finally, concerning "Luke" no one said you have to marry him or do anything long-term, but it wouldn't be a bad thing for you to date him and just have "fun" w/ him and enjoy the moment.
As I'm seeing here on my end, if you go out looking for a relationship, you won't find one or you'll find one that doesn't make you very happy in the long run. So, go date him and if he fancies a kiss, plant one on him. What the Hell, right?
As Kalni told me, you can't remember how to swim w/out getting in the pool every now and again, so swim away, my green-eyed girl.
RTL
Ahhh.. ok! I hear you ! I will too ! (keep going out and having fun). I am going home next week to see all of my gf's and old mates of me and my ex (he is going on holiday with the husbands).
You home alone lonely Rob? Play this
In Between Days - The Cure LOUD, RIGHT NOW! And dance around the room with me...Thats what I am doing right now.. (god, with a belly full of curry too!). A classic.
Al x
YAY!
Venus sextiles Uranus, right on my Sun on the DAY HE DRIVES ME HOME next Friday! 4 hours in the car with him and a very rare Venus/Uranus alignment. Mmm. I better buy a lottery ticket too!
Friday November 28 - "Bolts of love..!"
The planet of love links harmoniously to the planet of change and surprise, Uranus, today. For some, there is a very good chance that there's going to be some kind of loving epiphany which strikes like a bolt from the blue. For others it's going to be about cash - there could be a cash windfall due your way if this hits your chart strongly. If you're hoping for some kind of big turnaround re love or money, this could be your lucky day. Certainly the signs are positive that any changes now will be in the right direction. Good luck!
I hope I get the cash...
K
I Hope I get the cash, I really could do with some right now.
I,ll settle for a knight in shinning armour who is rich!
Ali, hope that was just speculation and not expectations in your post-hmmmmmm
Have a good week end everyone. Keep having probs with this site, posting and being disconnected or my post doesn't go through.
Maybe someone is telling me something?
Enjoy. Rather chilly here but dry so far.
Hi Ali,
I've been following along but haven't posted in awhile.
I know that everyone else on the board is likely to disagree with me here, and that's fine, but just wanted to maybe give another perspective. There are a lot of married people on these boards who live with their spouses while they are having affairs, a lot of people who are S, but still see their spouses even if they are having affairs. IMO I don't see your situation as any different than that of a married couple, and I am not sure whether the advice would be different if you were actually married rather thaan being BF/GF.
From my perspective I'd say by all means detach, but that doesn't mean you need to move on just because you aren't married. I don't know that for anyone who is married, the advice would be to start dating other people etc. Only you know if you want to continue to invest your time in this. From what you've said, he still has strong feelings for you. Are you willing to work on the friendship and leave the door open? Sounds like this OW is just a bandaid like they are for most other WAHs. Personally I think you've made a big step forward in your meeting with your ex, even if it does only mean that in the short-term the door is open for you to be friends and spend time together again. It's your opportunity to be the greener grass, and only you know how long you are willing to deal with this for.
I think it's fine to have hope and be positive about Friday. I would steer clear of specific expectations, but it doesn't mean you can't act "as-if" the stars are in your favor for a positive day, whatever that may mean for you.
Please don't get me wrong Ali or anyone reading this, I am not suggesting that you sit around pining away for him. I am only saying that perhaps there is still an open door for you if this is what you truly want. There are loads of people on this board who reconciled after 1 year's time...
Just my opinion, and as I said, I know others are likely to disagree.
ITH
I can't speak for others, but I know I'm reserved b/c I'm afraid you'll keep waiting for him to step up and he never will.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with the others, Ali, that you need to detach and keep living your own life while BF sorts himself out. You seem to be doing a great job so far so keep it up!
I don't know the answer as to whether you should date or not. I guess you know in your own heart, but don't limit yourself because of Luke's age. We're not talking LTR, but a couple of fun nights out and more laughing...
The car ride sounds like a good opportunity to be a fun friend to BF. I'm really glad he offered!
L. xx