To the Max!!!! - DivorceBusting.com

Howdy all. Biting the bullet and starting a thread here in MLC. I've been around on various forums for a while and most recently have resided in Hopefulness. That's me, looking for scraps of what is good and hopeful, at least I keeping tying to be hopeful. I've been dealing with my WAS/MLC/EA/PA detached H who has been a poor roommate sleeping on the couch for 4 years. His major disconnect was 1 year before that. Yes, 5 years. I am tired and worn out and trying to force some type of change, whatever it may be.

That's not my reason for starting this thread on this day. Right now I am frazzled to the maximum, over the edge. One more thing just got added to the heap.

My H called within the hour, one of my dearest horses is having some problems. The first assessment was worse than it seems now an hour later, yet I hesitate to say he will be fine. He is 25 years young, he has mentored so many kids and adults and is recognized and well known by many people. He loves people, he loves to please and be special.

Mr Cutie horse is very special for many reasons, but he is also the horse I rode during our wedding ceremony. Mother Mare that my H rode....we lost her a month ago. Tomorrow is another wedding anniversary. To think of losing both of these wonderful animals so close together and so near to the anniversary they carried us to our beginning of together....This is too much, I am over the edge. I am a wreck waiting to happen. The timing of all this is happenstance? I don't understand this, I can't fathom why.

I could sure use some positive prayers or cyber vibes please. Mostly for Mr Cutie but me too. TIA

WCW, I didn't know that Mother Mare passed away! I'm soooo sorry to hear that! And now this horse too. How are you doing sweets? Holding up okay? Are you at home right now to see the horse? How's H doing with this?

I am so sorry to hear about your horse. Our animals are so precious to us and it is very difficult to see them like this, let alone hear about it.

Your spouse has been living under the same roof and on the couch for that long? Wow--that really is very stressful. I think I would have gone insane had my h stayed here and on the couch. I hated when he left but it was a good thing and the kids and I were able to relax, not having to walk on eggshells all the time.

You must have a lot of patience to be able to endure that.

WCW,

My prayers are with you and your horse. I was saddened about the loss of your mare and this is just compounds everything. When I lost my gelding that I had for 20 years, I was lost, and at the point everything else in my life was going smoothly. I will keep you all in my prayers.

Take care.

WCW,
Ill say a prayer for you and All of your family...2 legs and four legs. $\:\)$

MG, MT, Gman, FG, thanks for your kind thoughts.
FG, within minutes of my post I got another call from H with more bad news. You remember Mr Cutie and Big Black, you and your daughter met them. (BTW, when do I get that pic of her at the gate between them?)

Big Black horse hopped to the gate on 3 legs. H called in frustration that he had already dealt with Mr Cutie, helped a new born calf, and now a major injury and H had to get on the road to meet his appointments. He asked if I would leave work and handle the vet appointment. I gladly did.
Mr Cutie is on stall rest for a while, Big Black is on injured reserve and may not return to use again. I hope this is a case of preparing for the worst while hoping for the best. Just unreal. When I called H with the news he said 'oh crap'. For my H, that's a pretty big reaction. Big Black is the first horse that we purchased as a couple and he came off a ranch that H worked on. I call him my souvineer. He will need TLC for months and months, his internal stitches will last 170 days.

Quote:

Your spouse has been living under the same roof and on the couch for that long? Wow--that really is very stressful. I think I would have gone insane had my h stayed here and on the couch. I hated when he left but it was a good thing and the kids and I were able to relax, not having to walk on eggshells all the time.

Answers in order of your statements - Yes he has. Yes it is. I think I have. I don't even have eggshells left, just calcium powder. (you might have to be a chicken farmer to understand that)

Quote:

You must have a lot of patience to be able to endure that.

It took me a long time to figure out a plan to get myself to focus on me and what I wanted to do about anything. Once I figured it out and got strength enough to start moving forward there has been numerous positive changes from H. The point where I am now is realizing what people have told me for about the last 2 years - will H EVER be the man again I need him to be for me? will he ever be able to step up and be honest and truthful and a life partner? I still don't know, I think he is trying in his own subtle passive/aggressive way without admitting he has done any wrong doing. I don't know if that will ever be enough, I don't think I can push this all under the rug and let it all go without ever dealing with it. That would be H's way.

Well, what's good? um, diggin deep, let's see, the apple trees have a bountiful crop of good juicy apples. They're even better dipped in caramel!

I am so sorry to hear more bad news. I'll say a prayer for you.

((((((WCW))))))

Oh, my! When it rains it pours, doesn't it! I'm so sorry to hear this news! I hope both horses recover, even better than you can imagine!

what the he11 are you doing over here?!!!! This place is a dump - lol! $;\)$ I just fixed up a new spot for you all nice and pretty in hopefulness. Haysus- WCW. how the heck are we supposed to keep up with you? You have a thread, you don't have a thread, you post here, you post there..... My head is spinning.

Sorry about your horses. You should make cider with the apples.

lodo

PS, let me just add that over here your thread sinks out of sight like an elephant in a tar pit. Back in hopefulness, you floated awhile, gave a guy a chance to see you. I'm just sayin'...

WCW, Both the horses we met are the ones giving you grief now? I can't even tell D about it b/c it would break her heart. She still talks about the horses. About the pictures....I know, I know. I've put them on the back burner for long enough. Time to get out the camera box and see how to upload them somewhere and get them to you. Maybe I can try that this weekend. But I can't promise that either. The next 2 weeks are crazy busy!

How are you holding up today chicka?

WCW,
I just found your new thread, but I have been thinking of you. They are taking our 3rd cutting of hay, and the guy doing it (we don't own equipment, just wagons) owns one of the horse farms that we sell to. Very nice folks with lots of horses. My niece rides out of there.

Anyway, as I had my coffee on the deck this morning and smelled the fresh cut hay I was thinking about all of you that I have met here. I had no idea that you were having such sadness. I will put you in my prayers.

Please try not to think that the timing of these problems has anything to do with the struggles you and H are having. Life is all about timing, but it usually doesn't have the meaning that we place on it.

Nothing in life lasts for ever. Nothing. The things that we love never last long enough.

I believe that we get these troubles as reminders to appreciate the good things, the love that we have (in it's various forms) while we have it. Everything is temporary.

I learned this well enough last year when I was diagnosed with cancer. I felt like I couldn't breath for about 2 weeks, and then I got the strength to open the door all of the way and look over the edge. You know what? Ain't none of us gonna get out of this alive, and I would rather have some advance notice so that I can appreciate everything (the good, the bad AND the ugly) while I can. I don't want to be one that gets in the car to go to work and just doesn't come home.

Yes, sometimes life sucks. Often it does. Especially when we start losing the things that we love. When we loose them one upon the other.

Look for what you can learn. Love while you can.

Sending love to you.

WCW,

It never fails that when one horse goes down others are soon to follow. It would always work out that right before a show someone would come up lame, and another wasn't far behind.

You have really been through the ringer and still hanging in there! You might need to feed the chickens more of that calcium powder if you don't have any extra shells to grind up for them!

Hope things will calm down for you this weekend!

Hi all, doing a drive by post - thank you for your thoughts and support. When things happen to one of my horses I feel so horrid because they depend on me to care for them and be responsible. It's tough on me when I let them down. For now, Big Black is already well ahead of the prognosis for him and doing good and Mr Cutie is not better but not worse so I'll take that as positive.

I posted this on a new thread started for me by lodo in Hopefulness - I'll probably go back 'home' to post there. Call me Dorothy.
I am trying to get my head in the right place and focus on me instead of H.
We had a small R talk when I handed him 2 books on our anniversary and asked if he would read them with me as I have not read them yet. One is Stop Blaming Start Loving and the other is The Marriage Benefit. He glanced at the titles and handed them back. I wouldn't take them, I said hold them and let it sink in. He said he wouldn't read any books.

He admitted what we are doing is not working.
I said let's change it. We will each be okay by ourselves but we could be fantastic together.
H said we've tried everything.
I said we haven't even been close to trying and certainly not everything.
H was quiet.
I changed the subject, we went on with our separate days.
By the time I got home late from everything and celebrated a young friend getting her drivers license H was home.
I was abolutely dog tired, I put a lot of miles on the scooter to save fuel in my truck and I miss the comfort of my truck!
I asked H if he would trade backrubs when his hunting video was done. At first he was going to say no but what came out was maybe.
I said ok and went to bed. H followed in a while. I was so tired, I could not stay awake even to rub his back.
H tried to start a ticklefest, I couldn't stay awake.
H went back to the couch.

I'm burning a few days vacation. Originally I hoped H would join me overnight somewhere, then I was more realistic that I would go myself. Then all the trouble with the horses and I took that as a sign to keep my butt home.

Spending time doing a few of those fall projects, loving the sunshine falling on my face.

Wondering if H took time off in the morning and was home earlier than usual that night of our anniversary because I had asked him to acknowledge the day with me. He never responded in a way I understood, except now looking back he was home. Did I blow it?

Sorry my thoughts are so scattered. That's just like my work list!

Bumping this back up, lodo isn't around to holler at me anymore and I finished the thread he started for me over in Hopefulness.

Why does September seem so long ago but 5 years seems like yesterday?

Most days as far as H seem like the same stuff different day except he dangles new carrots or throws more crumbs.

Just last weekend I asked about him doing horse training and lessons again after I had numerous requests from John Q Public. H said 'probably'. That's a pretty big change in his attitude to pick that up again, and also would be a big help to fill the financial void from when he suddenly quit doing it 4 years ago.

The next day I almost clinched a deal to 'lease out' 2 horses which means someone else would be picking up those expenses. I'll know for sure after the holidays. H stood quiet without input. I always wonder what he is thinking but I've learned that I can't pry anything out of him. He is a man of few words even when he talks.

There are other things that makes me think he is really trying to deal with the havoc he has created over the last 5 years but his stubborness and pride are big hurdles that he can't make it over. Of course I don't believe that he just plain old doesn't love me anymore.

While H crawls along slower than a snail on Ritalin my patience has been growing thinner than ice on a heated water tank. I am pushing for change, any change. But I push pretty slow too. sigh.

Took me a while but I found you! $\:\)$ Will be back to read when I can.

(((((((WCW)))))))

I am thinking back to last Christmas, and realizing that our situations are moving right along, well, if you consider galciers to be speedy! $\:\)$

I am a big advocator or patience, I am starting to wonder myself....

How far does a glacier move in a year?

H came in the bedroom this morning and pounced on the bed. He was mimicking an action that I did the other morning to him while he was still on the couch. We ended up trading backrubs.

Sounds great? except that he was gone last night until after I went to bed. Maybe I should ask where he is, if I press hard enough I can sometimes get an answer that sounds true. Sometimes it's more effort than I have gumption to get the truth. Is it still ow? in my gut I don't think so, unless there's a new ow, but I don't 'feel' that there is.

Do you ever get so far apart that you know you don't want to go back to sharing everything? I mean that I do want an honest relationship but I don't think I can ever be as open as I was before.

Not such a great morning.

I asked H where he was so late last night. He was 'working' at ows. Now the good news is that he actually told me where he was rather than just tell me it's none of my business. I understand many of his clients are at ows and he has to be there. That won't ever stop. The fact that he told me also makes me feel that he is not covering up an affair anymore because there is none any longer. When it was an affair he would never admit where he was unless I caught him red handed.

Just the mention of her though still sends me into an inner rage but I was very calm as I told H I know he doesn't give a rats a$$ about my feelings but that he has to decide what he wants and if it is with me it has to be real not what we've been doing for 5 years. He just looked at me.

We are invited to a Christas party tonight but it hasn't been mentioned since the invitation came. I have no clue if H plans to attend, and being it is party from 'his' circle I won't go if he doesn't. What I don't know is if he plans to go without me. I won't ask, and he doesn't have to come home for good clothes if he works today because he carries his clothes with him.

We have another party tomorrow night and I will go with or without him.

This morning we are halfway thru a monster snow storm and have over 6" already. We probably will get the 12" predicted, then more tomorrow and more on Sunday before the sub zero temps roll in! Ain't life grand!!!

I pretty much finished the little bit of Christmas gift shopping last night. Yeah!! I have to get motivated to wrap stuff now. I really don't have much ambition to do anything that isn't mandatory. blech.

Hey WCW, I'll try to check in over the weekend to see how things are going. I'm glad you popped back over and updated your thread. $\:\)$

H was home and asked me to go to the party with him. We also stopped at one of his clients along the way. We had casual conversation on the drive each way and set a plan for the next day and one more party to attend.

Saturday I got home with just enough time to get critters fed and get in the shower and get ready for the party that night. H had been home working on stuff, could have taken a shower at anytime. He waited until just before I got back in the house, I didn't have time to wait so I joined him.

Nice, H actually put his arms around me as we traded places under the water.

At the party last night it was H's position to make all the introductions around the room and tell how they contribute to the organization. I was the last person he got to, and what H said about me - "she is the engine for the whole thing." This is the organization that H is the president of!

A little more normalcy is surfacing in H. Yet he still has such a need to keep his secrets. I heard someone ask H how he was shooting and I asked H about it. Turns out he joined an archery league or something and shoots once a week. I just asked H if everyone knew but me? He shrugged.

The weather is brutal. It's a matter of surviving the next few days.

Last night one of the couples I talked too was celebrating their anniversary but they didn't know which one. They had been M for about 12 years and then separated and then D and now remarried for a year.

It was pretty interesting to listen to them tell their story. The W said the H had tried to reconcile with her about a year after they were S but she wouldn't hear of it. She was dating someone else.

A year later she was at the movies with her son and watched her xh walk out with his date. She said she cried all night and called him later and the rest is a love story.

They said it cost them no less than $100,000 to D and get it out of their systems and get back together.

Wow, that is a great story. btw nice comments from your H, that must have made you feel pretty good. $\:\)$

That's a great story!

Quote:

Do you ever get so far apart that you know you don't want to go back to sharing everything? I mean that I do want an honest relationship but I don't think I can ever be as open as I was before.

I know this feeling. I was just thinking about it the other day. Maybe openness comes back as more trust comes back.

Anyway, I'm so glad to hear that H talked about you like that infront of all those people. These baby steps are interesting...but I totally understand your frustration at how slowly they come and at the spurts and then the great gaps in between them.

All I can say is...MOO!

Be well, friend.

WCW,

What good steps happening! I love that you joined him in the shower (SWEET!) and he put his arms around you, I love that he said such nice things about you to everyone too!

Good news! I am doing a mortgage conversion and dropping my interest rate by 1.5%. That drops my payment significantly also, which gives me breathing room and I could pretty much afford to keep the place without help from H if he walks. I would still downsize some of the livestock to ease the workload but I wouldn't have to sell land.

I don't feel that H is walking out anymore, but I can't not let myself be dillusioned about if it could still happen. I have been working for years to get to this point financially, and here I am. Very tight but manageable I think.

H continues oscillating between moody/quiet/evasive and cheery/chatty/sharing. Or is that me? Hard to tell anymore if we are in coexistence or peaceful existence. When the opportunity allows I tease him about sleeping on the couch but if he ever decides to move back to the bedroom I wonder how we would handle that. Not losing sleep about it though! He takes it pretty good but sometimes acts miffed.

It's the first Christmas in a number of years I feel I am gaining momentum and confidence rather than feeling this is the last and being afraid of what the new year will bring. I hope this feeling continues and I don't end up in a big crash.

I was the designated driver for a Monday night football party. I got a free night out AND I won a digital camera! H was still up when I got home after midnight, he is always gone on Mondays for skiing so I didn't tell him I would be gone too. $;\)$

Good for you on the mortgage conversion! That's AWESOME news!

You sound so happy and sounds like you're doing well WCW! That's great!

WCW that is awesome news! I am so glad to see you being a little more optimistic (is that the right word?). It does sound like things may be a little better in your sitch.

I hope that you have a wonderful holiday!

This is all good news, WCW! Good for you--you deserve it!

Be well. Merry Christmas!

Still feeling on top of things here. $\:\)$

I let H know my Christmas Eve schedule and asked what his was, he wouldn't get home until after I was leaving for church and family stuff. He said he would let me know his plans. While I was in church H sent me txt and said 'will require a chauffuer'. I drove back home and we went together to my family. $\:\)$

I left a couple small gifts for H on the couch. I didn't expect anything from him and I was right. What was odd was his statement on Christmas Day about his gifts. "When do I open these? I didn't know you would get me anything." I just responded with he could open them whenever he wanted. I did not add that I have given him gifts EVERY year thru this whole mess why would this year be different?? Has he really been in that much of a MLC fog that he hasn't even remembered?

The other nice thing was that both of the things he opened right away and put to use.

Other years he would just lay them aside and ignore. I did get a card from H, very generic and signed Merry Christmas.

We spent the day with family and had a nice time. I mean really nice. I noticed how H would smile and laugh with his face and eyes again. Also, get this - H forgot his cell phone so he was phoneless the whole day. hahaha. We were in a bit of a rush to leave as at the last minute H remembered he wanted to take one of his old laptops along for my BIL to use and he had to find all the extra pieces.

The only bad note was on the drive home I asked H if he would be able to help me this weekend pick up some new livestock. He said no because he would be hunting all weekend. (Now even the positive here is that he told me before he just left, for a number of years in the middle of this he would just leave without telling me anything except see ya later.) I told H since he would be hunting all weekend he could do chores for me last night and tonight since I would end up doing his chores while he would be hunting. He got a little miffed over me saying I do his chores and tried to tell me he did them even when he went hunting. I hesitated a second thinking I didn't want to end up in a spat over this, but then I thought he really has to understand reality so I explained more and I think he didn't like it but he remembered without admitting anything. Good enough for now for me.

WCW how do you put up with all of his cr*p, I think that you're an angel.

No angel here for sure, but your comment is interesting. See, I actually feel how these things are positive compared to how H used to be. There is still a long journey ahead for the whole H to reappear and be the man and the H that he was. For some reason God put me on this trail, maybe He knew I had to get stronger on the inside and this was the challenge for me.

It would be real real easy to complain about all the things that aren't right yet, but I choose to focus on things that have changed and are so much better than 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years ago. H is not back to being my partner yet but he does not act like I am his enemy anymore.

The thing that has helped me the most is the hard work I put in to regain the happy pieces of my life. I let too much slip away when I was losing H, I didn't have the gumption to go back to doing everything on my own. You see, when I let H into my life we were the type of couple that did everything together. Our hobbies were the same, our friends were the same, we traveled, we volunteered, we built our place, we had it all and I felt so blessed and considered us the Golden Couple.

I had given up my own identity to become an extension of H. He was the guy in front with the ideas while I was the doer in the background. (remember his 'engine' comment?) When H emotionally divorced me he left in every way except he came home to sleep. We lived in the same house and could go for days and not see or speak to each other. I HAD to step and take care of me and this place. It took me too long to get here but I did. Can you tell I am not a 'snap' decision maker? lol

That's the long answer to how I put with H's crap.
The short answer is that I moved forward and rebuilt my life so I feel good about what I do and who I am. If H steps in and fills the spot I have left open for him that will be a bonus.

Yesterday 2 high school girls came out to ride horses. One was local, the other was from Thailand. She doesn't like the cold and the snow and it was her 2nd time on a horse. They had a lot of fun and I had a lot of help from them as they traded riding for labor.

Ride and work

H was home early enough that I had just gotten inside, we snacked and watched a movie. North Country, based on a true story about sexual harassment. Wow does it make me feel like I have a cushy life!

H and I are invited by friends to get together sometime over the holidays. I suggested NYE but H says he works late, and offered where. Again, that is a big change from when he would just say he would not be home, and not consider going anywhere with me! This morning H asked if this evening we could get together with our friends. We have plans for tonight now. $\:\)$

WCW, funny funny. I stopped at the Dollar Store Christmas eve to pick up some last minute stuff. I bought a few movies as I figured they'd come in handy passing the time through the holidays. Christmas night I watched..."North Country".

Pretty good movie I thought. Have a great night out!!!
TOH

(((WCW))), wow plans for the night? ahead of time. That is so cool! Looking forward to hearing how it went! $\:\)$

Originally Posted By: WCW

You see, when I let H into my life we were the type of couple that did everything together. Our hobbies were the same, our friends were the same, we traveled, we volunteered, we built our place, we had it all and I felt so blessed and considered us the Golden Couple.

I had given up my own identity to become an extension of H. He was the guy in front with the ideas while I was the doer in the background. (remember his 'engine' comment?) When H emotionally divorced me he left in every way except he came home to sleep. We lived in the same house and could go for days and not see or speak to each other. I HAD to step and take care of me and this place.

I wonder how many spouses do this? And I wonder how much this contributes to where we end up? My H decided to start up his own business and I worked really hard to fill in the gaps, offer suggestions, and make things work. I set up contractors, wrote HR manuals, and took over the finances. I really considered myself a partner in his business as well as his life. Plus we also shared friends, family, and hobbies. It seems like he just snapped. You mentioned that you were an extension of H. I think I did the same thing and that contributed to making me the enemy. EPIPHANY I think some of this was just a MASSIVE overreaction to him wanting his identity back and he didn't have the emotional or communication skills to just tell me to back off nicely. Hmmm...something to think about.

WCW I didn't mean to be rude asking the cr*p question. I have nothing but admiration for you. I personally couldn't do it. Good luck to you.

mojo, no problem. It's interesting to listen to others perspectives.

Thinking, it sounds like we both fell into the trap of thinking that we what we were doing was helping and supporting them to become successes. I felt that I worked my butt off to make all of H's dreams come true. What did I get in return? I finally got so tired of running behind him and continuing on with everything that he dropped, and he had moved on to his next dream. He told me that I never supported him in anything. So not true but it was his version and I had to listen to what he felt. I learned that I holding him up doesn't fix him.

Our 'night out' was nice. H was not talkative at all while we driving but once we met up with our friends he was his nice normal self. His cell phone went off during dinner and he apologized and said who it was and called them back later. I even caught him smiling at me while I was telling a funny story. Now if only we arrived home and went to bed together and......

Sunday we were home together, I asked about going to town together to get some things - and we did! We actually did a little shopping together. I know...hold me back...I nearly feel like a giddy teenager! So much of everything has been on hold for so long it's like the whole house needs updating. All we (I) bought though was the converter boxes for the tv's to keep working. When we got home H promptly installed them! I sure don't like the way it all works but I guess the government still has the power to keep herding us the direction they want.

Plucking away at tidying the house a little at a time. Last night I asked H if he would do chores for me, and he said he didn't mind doing chores and out he went. I better be careful I don't take advantage of that! Unfortunately H left a gate open and a pen of horses was out this morning!

Sounds like things are moving in a positive direction for you guys. Maybe the new year will clear out the cobwebs and offer some of our significant others a fresh perspective.

All in all sounds like a good weekend WCW! That's awesome!

Wow, quite a bit of action over here in this forum. Just keep working on the positives, bring them closer together. Make the norm the happy times again. Yes it's been a long haul, but at least there is positive movement.

Happy New Year.

Happy New Year to us, Cowgirl!!! What a hellacious year. I am going to assume that we both have turned a corner. You took out a barrel and I tore my bumper... there were casualties but we kept going. We might be trotting out on the other side. I need to believe that. We are both so stubborn and so convinced about what is 'right'. That does come from our rough growing up. We are sort of black and white. Thus the pintos!

World Champion Wife, hahahaha, let us resolve to notice what is wonderful. A brawny colt, a plowed driveway, a great breakfast and a giggle in the shower. Things could be very much worse. You are doing so well... Me too... Thanks for your friendship.

F. Flicka HAPPY NEW YEAR!! {YOU ARE NO ANGEL.. You are a Valkarie!}

I am an angel.

Out with bang, in with a clang. Major backslide. $\:\($

I expected it after too much normalcy. I let myself get sucked back in and worked my plans around H and got burned again. I get angry at myself because I know better than that and then I get all cranked and it festers when H shows up. I held it all in, I even went into self protection mode, until ow came up in a generic conversation amongst a group of us. When H and I were alone again I asked H to explain. He refuses to acknowledge or talk or explain and only says go pick a fight with someone else. The more he shut down the more I let loose. I tell ya I was like a broken water pipe that couldn't be shut off! oofda!Bad WCW. Some of it was rehashing things that have gone unanswered for years and still are, some was things that I have never said to H. I called him a chicken and told him to man up and face the issues instead of ignoring.

I want to be like H, I want to run away and hit ignore. But how does that resolve anything?

This morning we were invited to breakfast with friends, and we go and act all normal and talk about upcoming plans. I wonder if anyone noticed that H was hanging off the end of the bench to stay as far away from me as he could.

Life with H still sucks but it's not as windy as it was.
The rest gets better.
I made arrangements and trailered some new cows home yesterday that will calve this spring.
I made new contacts to set up some new clinics this year at the ranch.

A friend told H and I there was a nice article about me in a state magazine written by some people that came for help with their horses. I need to get me a copy. Too bad H called in busy that day and couldn't be here to do his part. I did it without him. $\:\)$

Moving forward with my life while leaving room for H to join me. He keeps peeking in the door but is still too stubborn to put his foot thru. I didn't help at all this time.

You an me both WCW, in some ways I would really like to have a "do-over" on NYE!

I hope 2009 is the year that your house steps over the threshold! $\:\)$

I would only take a do over if that would get H to talk!

I so much wanted to ask H for a backrub last night. Not just because my back was sore but I wanted some physical touch. I didn't. I feel like I am supposed to but yet I don't want to. Does that make sense?

He did give a light hearted hug this morning. No I did not initiate, I just stood in his way! $;\)$

Originally Posted By: WCW

I expected it after too much normalcy. I let myself get sucked back in and worked my plans around H and got burned again. I get angry at myself because I know better than that and then I get all cranked and it festers when H shows up. I held it all in, I even went into self protection mode, until ow came up in a generic conversation amongst a group of us. When H and I were alone again I asked H to explain. He refuses to acknowledge or talk or explain and only says go pick a fight with someone else. The more he shut down the more I let loose. I tell ya I was like a broken water pipe that couldn't be shut off! oofda!Bad WCW. Some of it was rehashing things that have gone unanswered for years and still are, some was things that I have never said to H. I called him a chicken and told him to man up and face the issues instead of ignoring.

I want to be like H, I want to run away and hit ignore. But how does that resolve anything?

I swear to G*d are we married to the same guy?

We might be except that my H sleeps here every night!

There is a lot of things that make it tough to DB but being put on ignore constantly certainly doesn't make it any easier!

Partly I was upset because we had tentative plans for NYE and H had said he would be home by 6 or 6:30pm. When those plans changed I assumed H would still be home at the time he said. The clock ticked along and so did I, and finally realized I was waiting for nothing. I did run to town but was too late for church to feel comfortable walking in that late. I stopped to pick up some movies and did a little shopping. I got home around 9pm and H arrived home. I had resolved not to make a big deal out of his arriving late.

About 11:30 I went to bed. I heard H talking on the phone. Shortly after midnight he came in the bedroom and said a friend wanted him to come and help with a horse that was sick and the owners weren't taking care of it. H and I went to see what we could do, by the time we arrived the horse was dead. The owners were surprised to hear it, but they never set their drinks down.

I was already in a state of unbelief, and then when ows name came up, and then when H crawled back into his shell, by this time it was 3am and I was cold and tired and that's why I lost my resolve to stay quiet. Reason or excuse? the result is the same.

That is an awful story and I can see why you were upset... I bet H can as well. He is tenderhearted. I think accompanying him up there was more helpful than any DB 'tactic'. Sincere good will goes a long way towards recreating good feelings.

WCW, you are hard to find over here. I should have looked through these more carefully. Sorry. My comments back home on the hopefulness range are not especially sensible now. Not that they usually are.

Todays comic events -
I have been trying to downsize the amount of unused horses here, and was reminded and inspired by MWG doing her online business.
I listed some horses and today I delivered 2 of them to a new home. (I did take a new one in trade, but that's still less than 2!) I filled H in on the details during breakfast this morning. He was not very happy or supportive of the fact that I was dealing off 2 horses.

I turned the convo to the trade he made last spring for a horse that I have yet to see. Turns out it is kept at ows. I've known this for awhile and today asked more details after H hammered me on the deal I made. H says he pays nothing, trades nothing, to keep this horse at ows. Why would he lie, right? ggrrrr. He says the lady that had the horse couldn't get along with it because it would bite and strike and rear up.

Tonight I told H that when he saw the new horse I brought home to think forward potential. This horse needs some tlc and groceries but seems very cute and quiet. H sang out some more zingers about my deal and my ability to do it right.

I said 'at least I don't have a horse that bites and strikes and rears and I can't even get it home.' He shut up.

Well he has a wife that bites and rears a little bit... he probably likes that, though. And you are at home.

I should strike! lol

I cut that last post short because my 'date' was driving in to pick me up.
There was a fundraiser in town for the local humane society. I asked H if he would like to go, he said no. The 2 friends I was going with picked me up, so when they drove in H was rubbernecking out the window to see who was coming in, I grabbed my coat and said that's my date! He said in a Dodge? I said 'yup, I had to downgrade!' and left.

When they dropped me off H asked 'who was that', and I told him. He even asked about my night. lol

The weather tonight is frizzle. Freezing rain and drizzle. I almost had guests overnight but they decided to treck home.

WCW--oh what a tangled web these men weave.

I am glad I inspired you with my online bus. stuff. I am having a ball with it!

I think everyone should try something out, esp. something you like. It frees up your mind and allows us to be productive.

Were your dates male or female--ha ha, just had to ask!!

Way to go with your "date"! Keep 'em guessing I suppose.

My date was 2 FF. I wonder now if H really didn't know who it was when they picked me up and that's why he asked? hmmm. hehe
Wait! does he think I am dating and would have the guy pick me up at my door? Gasp! $\:o$

I should have insisted they stay over and not venture home on the bad roads. They ended up in a hotel overnight and in the ditch this morning. No one was hurt thank the Lord!

Yes, you should have insisted!!! H would have had a decent excuse to come into the WCW love nest for a backrub rodeo! You can see why I get so exasperated with you. You are hopeless. Oh yes! I forgot. THAT is why you are posting here... not home on the hopefulness range where you belong.

You must set up another FF date for the next ice-storm. Buy eggo waffles or something in case you need to do this. You do not want unhappy company knocking on the bedroom door wondering where the Captain Crunch is. Think this out and be prepared. I am certain the next ice storm is near....

Probably the horsey social season is winding down. If so, you could invite a gaggle of horse loving 4-H-ers. Little tweeny bopper girls to sleep over and then do chores while you and Cowboy 'shower'. See how helpful I can be?

I meant "hopeful". I am helpful but also hopeful... sorta.

Food was not the problem. Figuring out where to put 2 ladies that are used to large spacious homes full of amenities into my little cramped crowded house was the problem. I offered the big couch and the little couch. It's all I had, they opted to skate away on the ice.

I have been working on a project of love concering Mother Mare who went to the Rainbow Bridge last August. Something H said gave me the idea the day she died, and last night I finished it and hung it on the wall. I love it. I expected some comment or reaction from H this morning, there was nothing. I hope I didn't hurt his emotions again, we both shed many tears that very sad day.

WCW! I didn't know it was because she passed away! How did I not know that?! I thought both horses recovered! I'm soooo sorry!!

Uhoh, too many horses causes confusion.
Mother Mare we lost in August, she was 25. She was the founding mare of our breeding program for many years and produced great horses. She is the dam of the mare I currently ride and show and brag about.
Big Black and Mr Cutie ironically both needed vet attention on the same day in fall, and they are both fine now.
Mother Mare and Mr Cutie hold a special spot in my heart, they are the horses H and I were on when we were married.
Mr Cutie is 26 this year.
Does that help?
I could fill this thread listing and talking about each of the rest of the horses. $;\)$

I would like that. The board might be interested to know your H, innocently or not, named one "DB"!! That still makes me laugh. He is probably following along. He could be sitting in his truck in the dark somewhere with a wireless signal reading all this. He probably types to Frank D.

You are still really sad about your dear departed beauty-horse. WCW, I am so sorry that she had to go. I suppose your H is still grieving too. Too bad he is so reticent about everything.

Yes, H did name a horse DB. He's not sitting in the dark tonight though!

I had a meeting tonight, drove in and there was H's truck. I had no clue he would be there, and people joked he had to introduce himself because it was so long since they had seen him. I found a seat and H came over and actually moved chairs to take a seat next to me. It looked and felt quite like how we were in our better years, the only thing missing was his hand resting on my leg and my hand on his. When the meeting was done we each socialized and H came over to tell me he was heading home.

Is this baby steps? the light of day? Idunno. What I do know is this is resembling behavior prior to the last 5 years.
I should also note that one of the things I said to H last week in my rant is that I was tired of hearing the rumors and not even knowing if they were new or old. Maybe H was just performing damage control tonight.

Hi WCW,

I know sometimes you follow my posts. Your stitch is similar to mine. My W lives at home and she use to ignore me for a while. My stitch has been going on for about 5 years, maybe more. Before I came to this site she slept on the couch for over a year. She worked nights and her excuse was "I'm not tired when I come home from work." At first I would ask her to come to bed, but that only made her angry.

So how do you get H back in the bedroom? That's a tough question to answer. I used different tatics to get my W back. Please don't think I'm crazy or cruel about some of them.

I would give her a quick hug and go to bed early.
Sometime I would burn scented candles before she came home.
Sometime I would burn scented candles in the bedroom
Cook fish for dinner (she doesn't like the smell of fish) D10 and I like eating it.
Turn the thermostat down when D10 slept over a friends house.
She sometimes fall a sleep with the remote in her hand. I would switch the TV to a religious station.
Clean the bedroom.
Move the bedroom furniture around. Make changes I liked, since she wasn't sleeping there.
Play soothing music on the radio.
Wake-up and be cheerful even if I wasn't
Lock my bedroom door, so in the morning when she went to get her clothes she had to use her key. (SS18 use to steel from us that's why the lock.)
Take the sleeping bag she used off the couch and store it away.
When she wasn't feeling good and slept on the couch I would tuck her in. Kiss her on the forehead and wish her a good night sleep.

When she did come to bed, all we did was hold hands.

Fixer

WCW, you would be the first to notice actions rather than words as more important. Your husband can't talk. He is doing what he can to reassure you and change the neighborhood/horse culture perceptions. He has finally started to figure out that you have been humiliated by rumours. Consider stepping over and around them...true or not. Reclaim your dignity and be generous about allowing H a little. He is suffering about his stupid finances. Consider offering magic couplehood status to him. Your business plan is still viable, *hitty economy or not. Reinvent. He does understand that you are energy and credibility behind the ranch/business.

Consider being glad about that he is unfreezing and then try hard not to put a dark spin on his motive. Shock him and go domestic. Make more cookies. That made him happy in a goofy way one time. Try it again.

The little 4-H ers will like them if he does not.

Fixer! You are creative and persistant. I will go back and read your story, but I like the way you are busily changing furniture and the mood anyway you can.

That worked well for me too. Talk didn't. Happy cooking and decent wine, did. I really do notice what helps and what doesn't. Drunky emails hurt. Jokes help.

Good luck to you... too.

Hi Fixer, nice of you to post. You know how people will someone just snapped? or someone will snap out of it? Well, my H snapped in the 3rd week of Sept 2003. I could tell a distinct difference in him, although it was May 2004 before I understood the owreason for his snap.

Thanks for the list of suggestions, and I don't think it's crazy or cruel. You'll see why by my answers. $\:\)$

I would give her a quick hug and go to bed early. Check!
Sometime I would burn scented candles before she came home. Check!
Sometime I would burn scented candles in the bedroom Check!
Cook fish for dinner (she doesn't like the smell of fish) D10 and I like eating it. Would this drive her to the bedroom to get away from the smell? H is rarely home to eat in the evenings.
Turn the thermostat down when D10 slept over a friends house. Check! except then H will run an extra heater
She sometimes fall a sleep with the remote in her hand. I would switch the TV to a religious station. Ha!
Clean the bedroom. Check!
Move the bedroom furniture around. Make changes I liked, since she wasn't sleeping there. Check!
Play soothing music on the radio. Check!
Wake-up and be cheerful even if I wasn't Check! or do a 180 and be the opposite and leave out the back door and not see H at all
Lock my bedroom door, so in the morning when she went to get her clothes she had to use her key. (SS18 use to steel from us that's why the lock.) H has no clothes in the bedroom or in the house. He brings in only what he needs each day.
Take the sleeping bag she used off the couch and store it away. Check! and I went a step further, I moved the whole couch to the barn for 6 months. H slept on the floor. I moved it back in when my sis was coming to stay over.
When she wasn't feeling good and slept on the couch I would tuck her in. Kiss her on the forehead and wish her a good night sleep. Check! No kisses though. I believe I have virgin lips again.

When she did come to bed, all we did was hold hands. Check! sometimes

I don't think I have a goal at this time of having H return to the bed for overnight stays. I would like mutual visits to build up to eventual overnights but right now I have horrible sleep habits and irregular sleep patterns. I can hardly stand to sleep with myself!

I do feel bad for him sleeping on the couch all these years but it is his choice. It is getting pretty lumpy and he has a sore back quite often. Then he goes to the chiropractor. It's so easy to see the problem from my perspective but he is still too stubborn and his pride or guilt keeps him blind. Maybe his eyes are opening just a bit though.

Congrats to you for your W returning to the bed!

Originally Posted By: Flicka

WCW, you would be the first to notice actions rather than words as more important. Your husband can't talk. He is doing what he can to reassure you and change the neighborhood/horse culture perceptions. He has finally started to figure out that you have been humiliated by rumours. Consider stepping over and around them...true or not. Reclaim your dignity and be generous about allowing H a little. He is suffering about his stupid finances. Consider offering magic couplehood status to him. Your business plan is still viable, *hitty economy or not. Reinvent. He does understand that you are energy and credibility behind the ranch/business.

Consider being glad about that he is unfreezing and then try hard not to put a dark spin on his motive. Shock him and go domestic. Make more cookies. That made him happy in a goofy way one time. Try it again.

The little 4-H ers will like them if he does not.

Flicka, I 100% agree with you here. Please take away my fastforward finger!

Magic couplehood? what is that?

Did you see Oprah? One person said that having huge financial debt was exciting to him. Did I hear that right?

I was stuck in traffic and doing deep breathing at 4:15. I am sincerely interested in this week's Oprah stuff but I have to feign interest in my work for awhile longer. I am the insurance provider, you know?

Magic couple was referencing "golden palomino couple".

Really, you do match in a crazy way. He does know that, I assure you. My renegade does as well. I talk cheesish! I am able to fake interest in gray water for quite awhile! Unfortunately, I have faked it for so long that now I am actually interested. Scary.

Hi WCW,

I let my W know that this was my house too. Coming home in the early morning is not showing respect for our household. By cooking what I wanted and not caring about the smell, I was showing her this is my house too. She also said that our house didn't seem like a home. Then her life started to fall apart. Friends started moving away and her finances were getting away from her. I think her MLC started getting better, but not without being miserably silent. On the flip side, my stuff was getting better. People noticed how it was more her than me.

Flicka - I starteed reading about different things that people tried. What worked the most for me was to stop worrying. Somehow my W saw enough to know she didn't have an effect on my moods. Don't get me wrong, I still slip and often, but when my PMA is up she isn't as happy.

Fixer

Originally Posted By: WCW

It looked and felt quite like how we were in our better years, the only thing missing was his hand resting on my leg and my hand on his.

What do you suppose would have happened if you had put your hand on his leg? Would that have sent him running? I think next time you get the chance you should try something like that. It would be a 180 now wouldn't it?

Originally Posted By: WCW

When the meeting was done we each socialized and H came over to tell me he was heading home.

Whether it is a baby step or not it was very nice of him.

Hey Fixer, I have to be a little bit careful about claiming this is my house because it WAS my house before H moved here. I get what you're saying though. While H was still spinning and sliding and planning his exit strategy I was 'the rock' that kept the place together and I was planning and moving forward with my own life. Took me a quite a while to get started though.

Gosh it sounds so vain saying that. I was the rock.

NNP, I have a hunch H would have been squirmy on the inside and not been able to run. He may even have made a reason to get up and go talk to someone. Maybe when there is a next time I'll 180 but for this time I was still feeling good that 1) he was there by surprise 2) he came to sit with me and 3) he didn't just sit like a bump, he was interactive with me.
I mentioned that he let me know he was leaving because there has been so many times that we've been at the same place each with our own truck and he just left. I mirrored that behavior a few times. $;\)$

Driving home one night this week H and I passed on the highway. No big deal, I used to call him and say hi when that happened. I don't anymore, we just wave at each other. My phone rang, it was H! wondered if I remembered to pick up dog food. Yupperree I did!

H is out of town part of this weekend. I've got my plans all made and I hope the 7 inches of snow isn't going to screw them up!

Hey girl! I didn't even know we were getting snow until I woke up this morning! The roads are terrible! Be safe!

Alright, so H went out of town and I knew he was going. No big deal. But, he left without mentioning it the day he left or saying goodbye. He treated me like I had leprosy in the morning so I took his bait and didn't approach for a hug or even a 'close' goodbye. I waved from across the room and left for work.

I spent all yesterday being angry and upset and squelching the urge to contact him. I had dozens of excuses and any of them would have been acceptable. But they were excuses. I have not made contact. I am still angry about it this morning.

I just had a light bulb moment and realized I am angry at MYSELF but funneling it towards H. Sure, he was a jerk. But I reacted to his being a jerk and mirrored that behavior instead of being who I should have been in that situation. The me who rejects H's being a jerk and not react to him. Duh, DB 101. I know he won't take the lead and I should have been the bigger person.

Ok, I gotta get busy and wake up the snoring dogs to go out for round 2 of chores. $\:\)$

you a smart lady $\:\)$

WCW, it is almost impossible not to mirror their behaviors... It I am disappointed with your Cowboy. It seems safer to be upset with your H than to critcize my own. I really thought he was turning a corner. His pouty style would be funny if it were not so hurtful.

I can understand why you would end up in a rant. It is just too difficult to keep neutral when they are so indifferent and inconsiderate. I try to edit what I would like to say but it does seem that the occasional fire fight brings improvements so I am conflicted about what is best. I am not a big game player, either, so I do believe that clearing the air in a calm straight way, is good.

This weather is depressing and aggravating. It affects the way I look at things. I hope things are well out in the barns at least... Are your new cows staying home? No fence breaking outlaws, I hope. See? The recurring hopefulness theme!

"I just had a light bulb moment and realized I am angry at MYSELF but funneling it towards H. Sure, he was a jerk. But I reacted to his being a jerk and mirrored that behavior instead of being who I should have been in that situation. The me who rejects H's being a jerk and not react to him. Duh, DB 101. I know he won't take the lead and I should have been the bigger person."

Wow WCW does that ever ring some bells. I'm just not in the position right now to do anything about it. Shoulda Woulda Coulda

Well WCW, I hope you are doing well. I get worried when you do not post after you have had hurt feelings. I know that this is familiar stuff but lately there is so much grief and exhaustion on the DB board that it is affecting us. Just by reading too much I got caught up in the foreverness of my own disappointment. Things have improved very much for both you and me but we are tired. We easily derail.

I became tearful reading on your friend Jeff's thread in 'Divorced but not done'. His sadness is contagious. His realization that if these situations run on too long they are not usually resolved happily seemed horribly true. Somebody posted and reminded him {and me} that we are in control of our own happiness and peace. Usually, I know that and so do you. Shall we regroup?

This afternoon, I took a risk and when my H called to ask whether I could travel next week, I just gave him the green light to go without me. He may, but surprisingly, he thought he might put the trip off. He speculated about whether he should just come back to WI for the week... there is a lull in the cheese action out west. So, clingy little Flicka feels better for that and got a very good response from the wayward one.

It seems that whenever I just give up and distance myself in a careless way, things work out better. I will be sad to miss a trip to England but I am glad not to feel obliged or resentful because it is so rushed and difficult. I have to think this through better.

Did your Cowboy come home and regroup? Did you make more cookies? Shouldn't you invite your wolf dog in? It is going to be so frickin' cold! I am assuming the cat-boys are already cavorting under and around. Do you have a way to plug in your truck? I used to use a block heater... it was magical. I need one for me, now.

So Cowgirl, I feel lucky that we can catch up in the real world. I do hope that the board would reconsider their policy for contact info. We need to start plans for our second annual DB Rodeo.

I am ok Flicka, thanks for checking.
I had a real busy weekend and today. I also managed to 'fry' my puter when I moved it to clean some other stuff. Turns out I moved it too close to a heater. duh.

H arrived home fine but late. I had maintained my NC with him. We have had 'family' plans since Christmas for Saturday night. I went without H. Everyone asked where he was, his seat had been prepaid and they would try to find a last minute stand in if he wouldn't make it. I said I didn't know, I hadn't heard from him, he didn't say goodbye, and I knew it was a stupid kids game but I wasn't contacting him. Someone sent H a txt, and he called me. He showed up 3 hours late and schmoozed enough with everyone so they all knew his reasons for being so late. I was surprised he even had agreed to come in the first place as he has refused for the last 5 years. Before the night was over there was a great song playing for slow dance, I teased H and asked if he had enough to drink that he would dance with me. (H doesn't drink) No dance but he was surprised! He was even more surprised when the next dance was Footloose and I told him he could cut loose on that one as I was leaving.

That whole dance convo was all in jest. H has only danced a handful of times with me in our years together, and I think half of that was in our own living room. sigh

You are very right Flicka that we are tired. Each time I get this tired I have to dig deeper just to stay even. How does that ever get me ahead? How do we get to the future and thrive when we are so busy surviving? Keep trodding....

Speak of surviving, I came 20 miles on the Big Road tonight in the snow. There were 5 cars and 2 semis scattered off the road in that 20 miles. The snow is so dry it just swirled everywhere and it was like driving in a blizzard.

Now that I am home it is a good night. A beautiful falling snow, candles gently glowing, warm soft snuggle socks, both dogs curled up close to me. Just one thing missing. sigh again.

You are passing up a trip to England in the name of DBing? you are tough! I was going to suggest that you should go with him but let him rush back home in his style while you continue on with a nice relaxed trip.

As for Jeff, he'd better shape up pretty quick or I really will kick his butt when I drive thru Huntsville in a couple months! Better yet, I'll make him take all 5 of us women out for dinner! or even better than that he'll have to cook for us at HIS house! Shakin' in your boots Jeff? $;\)$

Flicka,

Quote:

It seems that whenever I just give up and distance myself in a careless way, things work out better.

I think the MLC'er is in tune with our feelings. Deep down inside they feed off our need and pain. Then when we stop hurting they poke their head out of a little hole to see what's happened. To much of their surprise they see a different, but confident spouse. So they poke their head out a little more to see what else is new.

My advice is keep them guessing what your going to do next.
Fixer

WCW,

Quote:

He showed up 3 hours late and schmoozed enough with everyone so they all knew his reasons for being so late. I was surprised he even had agreed to come in the first place as he has refused for the last 5 years.

That's a baby step in the right direction. Sometimes an action as small as this can turn into a big gain. Did you leave before he did?

Fixer

Hi Fixer, I agree it is another 'baby step' for H that he had planned to come at all. Bad weather was a big factor in how late he was in arriving. I still get hung up on if he is just doing damage control or is he really waking up?

I did announce I was leaving before he did, but he walked out the door at the same time as me. Now that I think about it, I did step out of my comfort zone and had gone over to talk a guy and pay him a compliment. H was on my heels when I left.

Your H know their is something wrong with him. It's just that he can't put his finger on what it is. My MLC'er didn't care much about damage control, so your H might not either. They act like teens, so ask yourself this question. How many teenagers do you know who care about how other people think of them?

The more open and outgoing you are the more interested H will be. In his mind you're being blammed for all the wrong in his life. He maybe thinking thoughts like how his life would be more fun if you were less boring. Then when someone elses attention is focused on your H has to look towards himself.

Fixer

Quote:

I became tearful reading on your friend Jeff's thread in 'Divorced but not done'. His sadness is contagious. His realization that if these situations run on too long they are not usually resolved happily seemed horribly true. Somebody posted and reminded him {and me} that we are in control of our own happiness and peace. Usually, I know that and so do you. Shall we regroup?

Sorry I got folks down. The holidays were hard to handle but the holidays are past and the future awaits.

I will always have sorrow for the break up of my family, but I have so much going for me that the sorrow will be good - to remind me not to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Yes, when these things go on for a long time the odds of a happy ending go down. I try not to tell folks to give up; only to make assessments along the way to see if things are changing for the better or not. Life is too short to chase a dream, unless that dream can become reality some day. But unlike starting a business or something, we only have part control of that dream. A R take two; we can only do our part. Each one of us must make our own decision if and when to cut.

And happiness is the key. Are you happy? If not, how can you change that?

Quote:

You are very right Flicka that we are tired. Each time I get this tired I have to dig deeper just to stay even. How does that ever get me ahead? How do we get to the future and thrive when we are so busy surviving? Keep trodding....

Snow getting you down girl? Things run in cycles; frustration will pass. Will H ever change? I hope so. Many positives, but then he runs away again. I could never figure him out. Maybe the holidays had an affect on him too. Did he start training again?

Quote:

Better yet, I'll make him take all 5 of us women out for dinner! or even better than that he'll have to cook for us at HIS house! Shakin' in your boots Jeff?

Only five women? There is more than enough of me to go around. $\:\)$

And make sure some are single - I always get lucky when I serve my homemade lasagna

And good wine, right?

Homemade lasagna, huh? Good for you!!

Hey girl, the snow didn't hit so bad here yesterday but we've got another blizzard watch for tomorrow's snow though. I shoveled the snow (only my spot and back to the street so I can get out) last night and it was only a dusting on it when I went out this morning. It's cold as sin here though! Brrr!

Fix, I think my H has always had some sense of the damage to his reputation. There are times I have thought it is a big part of what kept him from making the final leap when it was all fresh.

FG, sunny and subzero here today. I hope H cleared snow from the yard but if he didn't at least I have 4WD.

Hey Jeff, you didn't get me down - maybe more frazzled about how to get you mooooooving! I still want to know what you are doing different now in the new year. List please 1,2,3.....

Quote:

Each one of us must make our own decision if and when to cut.

And happiness is the key. Are you happy? If not, how can you change that?

Deciding to decide. I just went thru that exercise (again). I want change, but I don't want to force the decision. There is a very fine difference, so fine it is like frogs hair. I am getting change, little by little. Considering my H is a very proud and extremely stubborn man I think this is progress.

As for being happy, I've been saying I am about as happy as I can get in all the other departments of my life except for H. I think that is still true. Can I still improve? sure. I know that too many of my emotions still hinge on H's actions. I don't know how to stop that while we are in the same house while I still have the visual.
The H department is better than it was but no where good enough yet. Will it ever be the fairy tale version again? not for a long time if ever. I don't know if I will ever trust again as naivly as I did. AND, as we know, I can't change him.

Quote:

Only five women? There is more than enough of me to go around.

And make sure some are single - I always get lucky when I serve my homemade lasagna

You've got a date the 3rd week of March buddy! We are all married though, you'll have to revise your version of lucky! BTW, we'll bring our own wine. Do you want that lasagna with or without horses? $;\)$ You could have a pony party for your daughter.

Just checking in. Things sure move quickly on this forum. It's kind of like the DB hiway over here.

Phoenix, nice to see you.

The radio is not my friend today. Song after song triggers a special memory with H. It probably also has to do with H's nice call this morning, his voice was cheery and it sounded so good. Like the good old days.

Jeff, I didn't answer your question about H training. He has dabbled a little with a few of our own, much overdue too! Nothing has come in from the outside yet, but when it's 20 below people aren't thinking of getting their horse trained. I am putting feelers out and spreading the word and in another month or two I hope it will start paying.

H can still be very defensive if I ask him something simple. We have a heater he sometimes uses at night to stay warm on the couch. Last night I asked if he still used it and I could hear the tone in his voice was not good. I asked what he thought about putting the heater in the basement during this subzero cold streak to avert freezing water pipes. He agreed and gladly took the heater down. My take is he got defensive because he feels guilty for having to use it because he chooses to sleep on the couch. yes or no?

Hi WCW,

Quote:

My take is he got defensive because he feels guilty for having to use it because he chooses to sleep on the couch. yes or no?

Yes, I have told many times by my ex-marriage councelor that anger is just another way of expressing feelings of guilt.

I would have to agree with Fixer too.

Another call from H today while I am at work. $\:\)$ I know it doesn't sound like a big deal BUT it's been quite a while since he made his daily calls to me. This was 2 this week. He said he wanted to tell me something before he forgot. AND it was actual phone calls and not txts.

seems like a big deal to me $\:\)$

I'm going to say yes and yes. Big time on guilt and big time on yes that is cool he called.

Congratulations. My money still says baby step improvements in your sitch.

Thanks NNP and PS! I still don't feel like I can really trust anything. I want to so bad, but there is so many of those nagging doubts. Swing hi! Swing lo!

Last night there was another letter to H from a cc. Not good. He does all his cc and bills paperless and I can't see the actual bills.
Does anyone know how to run a 'joint' credit report? anything I see is for just one person. Is there such a thing as a 'joint' report or is it 2 separate reports for each individual?

I have only seen individual. BUT when I do either of ours everything shows up on both regardless of who is the primary on the account.

Hey WCW, glad to hear he called you at work for the 2nd time! That's definately a great step!

It's time. I have to tackle the financial talk. I have to take my head out of the sand about H's debt.
Maybe that's the final stumbling block for us. We'll either stumble back together or stumble onto our separate paths.

I don't intend to have come this far and let H take me down in financial ruin.
That's the little nagging doubt I have that keeps me from trusting anything or from counting 'baby steps'.
If I am allowed an expectation I think this could the 'white elephant' we are still ignoring, the guilt that keeps H away.
Or, he is just a WAS with a lot of debt that doesn't want anything to do with his LBS.
There are pieces that I just can't fit together.

The problem is H won't talk about the debt he has run up nor will he admit it.

The other problem is I wonder if I am gracious enough to deal with this without blowing my lid. I'd be fine now, if H would actually talk and we can make a financial plan but I am pretty certain that somewhere down the road I would come apart at him for putting him/us/me in this pickle.

I KNOW that WE can do this if H will just give US a chance. What really ticks me off is that I doubt he will.

Stubborn vs stubborn.

"Does anyone know how to run a 'joint' credit report? anything I see is for just one person. Is there such a thing as a 'joint' report or is it 2 separate reports for each individual?"

They only do individual. H's credit cards are not on my report and mine are not on his report either. If you know his SS#, you can request it. I have done this in the past.

Hi WCW,

Quote:

Does anyone know how to run a 'joint' credit report? anything I see is for just one person. Is there such a thing as a 'joint' report or is it 2 separate reports for each individual?

Unless he knows about it I don't think you should run his credit report. If it is anything like my W's, what you will find is a bunch of delinquent accounts and a few paid off. If you really want to help, please ask him if you can pull his credit report.

I asked my W and then I offered to help her out. We had a plan with a credit services company and everything. However, she wasn't sincere enough to work on the problem. So this is what happened. I gave her thousands of dollars to help her get on a debt reduction plan and she got caught up on the bills. Then she couldn't keep up with the payments she setup with the CC service. Instead of charging everything, all she did was use the cash to pay the bills for her fun.

My advice is to be careful.

Fixer

Do that.. use his numbers or a lawyer to get the info.

WCW, you will never be in love again until the numbers are right. Protect your ranch..

I am supposing it is in jeopardy.

All of this is too complicated. Ask your old dog for advice. I am just too sad and worried on lots of frontiers to be helpful...

We should BOTH spend money to get facts. Or do we BOTH already know?

Quote:

Or do we BOTH already know?

I would guess that if you have to ask the question, then you DO know. Sort this out now because if you don't, it will be years of resentment whether you win him back or not. And, maybe, not resentment, but unnecessary debt that you can circumvent now. If he wants to be immature about finances then too bad, someone has to take care of it and if you're still within a legal marriage then somehow you have to sort it out otherwise it's just as much your burden as his. Whether he gets upset or not. What's that saying? When the wolf come in through the front door, love runs out the back.

Take care, y'all. I truly admire those who keep ranches and farms running despite the cost. We city/town dwellers need to know you're out there.

I love the greener grass thing. I have been trying so hard to be that... I am only chartreuse.. apparently.

We do know.

WCW, I know the finacne talk ia very difficult with your H, but I think at this point it must be done.

What about if you said something like "how can we figure out how to get ourselves out fo this?". Don't let him get away with denying there is a problem. But don't accuse. You are married, so the problem really belongs to the is both of you.

Hugs to you ((((WCW))))

Hey have you heard anything from Opti??? I wish she would let us knwo how she is.

MG, Flicka, NNP, BeingMe, thanks for your thoughts.
Fix, I got the shock of H's debt a while ago. I've known about it and told him I know how much, he denies. The monthly bills laid on the table. That's why he's gone to all paperless so I can't track anything. The cc companies do send letters yet so I know the bad news.

The only thing that H has said is that it's not my problem, he will make his payments. I said this is community property state and his debt is my debt and it affects me and my credit. Right now my FICO score is over 200 points above his, one of his high balance accounts must have me listed on it as it shows on my record as a bad mark.

When H moved here he came with debt. We dug out with a plan in place. It was good for the first 10 years, until he started his own accounts and bill paying when MLC/ow came along.

I won't just pay his bills, but I would gladly assist in forming a plan on how HE could better manage what he does pay to be more effective. H would have to prove responsibility before I would willingly dump money into a cheeseless tunnel. There are a few things that he has changed and I think one of them is not using cc's for everything. Maybe he is forced to that for being over limit.

I feel I have to talk finances before H takes me down with him. He has jeopardized too much already. It surely won't be pleasant as I have reason to believe a lot of his debt has to do with 'another place'. I have asked about that and again he admits nothing.

It all boils down to I know, he knows I know, but he won't let me in and we haven't been able to discuss it. Isn't this role reversal? Isn't it usually the woman who runs up the debt and the man does her bail out?

There is a good note to post, I have a horse lined up for H to train as soon as the weather gives us a break (March?). Not only will that be $$$, it will boost his ego and esteem, and he has to be home to do it.

The financial talk has gone about as well as I expected. H won't spill a word except that he had a plan and was doing fine until I fed the horses too much grain a year ago and he couldn't keep up. So, according to H I am the cause of his debt. H says I fed 300 pounds a week. So if that is even true, I spent $3000 on grain for 6 months. I said show me the receipts and I will pay that. I asked how that put him 6 figures in debt? He won't talk.
But I am not done. I am angry. Very Very Angry.

(((WCW))) Act, don't re-act.

Good advice NNP, but I blew that!

I went back for one more round, ended up saying things I shouldn't have. Basically told H he was lucky to still have me.

ps - I haven't heard from Opti.

Cowgirl, did you ever see that complaint coming? It is laughable and makes me worry about your Cowboy's intellect. To shift the conversation to feed costs was an interesting and odd tactic. He makes himself less credible and a little ridiculous to your loyal fan club when he makes goofy accusations.

Neither you nor I have good access to financial records yet we are both obligated for 'better or worse'. Lately, I am assuming things are slightly better, but not having the facts keeps us off balance. You have more to lose. My house and land are already lost....

Don't get defensive or show too much anger. Just keep insisting on getting things straight. I have turned up the heat {literally! and figurativly} as well...

One should perhaps re-focus back to the present, as in, "let's not get bogged down in some feed issue from a year ago, but what is happening now, and how can we get through it." He is avoiding the issue by misplacing blame onto you. He knows if you and he get to closely look at the finances, that he will be the one having to do some explaining. It is starting to sound like he's hanging onto your tail while getting himself out of the muck he's gotten himself into. Maybe there is another place he's set up somewhere. Is there a possibility that you can legally separate yourself from his finances so that you are not responsible for his present/future debt while still maintaining a position of working it out together?

No Flicka, I didn't see that one coming - that he would accuse that I am the cause of his financial problems too. He said he had a plan all worked out until I put him under and he couldn't keep up. Puuhleeeaassee! First off his accusations are wrong, and 2nd off if it WAS true he should have said at that time he was in trouble. I know he was in trouble before last year. At least now I know what he thinks and the grudge and hate he still feels to me.

BeingMe, I tried a version of what you suggest. I said give me receipts and I will pay that, but surprise! he doesn't know. I said let's get the info on interest rates, due dates, and balances to make a plan to pay off. He said 'yea, wouldn't you like to know that' with total sarcasm. Later in the day I also said when he is ready to apologize for placing the blame on me I will accept that and be ready to work on solving this. He just sets his jaw and nods.

I am just so very angry. I have tried and tried to talk to H first. He won't. I will try one more time and tell him that if he wants to stand in the middle of the path to try and block me go ahead but I will work around him then. I have not worked this hard and gotten this far to let him take me down with him.

He is humiliated to have you know the awful details of his financial mess. I do not see a way around that... Exposed lies make liars defensive. You have offered him your heart and loving help. I would think it is time to act as if you love yourself.

I guess you need to go cold and do what it takes to make yourself and what is left of your dream, safe. Include your new YMCA and maybe your minister in your wellness plan. I know how painful and sort of tragic this will feel. Feels already.

It will feel terrible for awhile. Forcing this confrontation may be the real solution. Not cooperating with his lies and disrespect will create more anguish temporarily, but eventually provide relief.

I hope Kodiak is still getting grain! Good Gawd.

(((((((WCW)))))))

Don't you see? Everything you do is multiplied by 50! So $3000 worth of grain was really $150k! Uhhhhm, what were you supposed to feed the horses? Cheese doodles?

Gee it took my H three whole C sessions to figure out that I am the cause of all his problems. Your H did it all on his own! $\:\)$ Sorry just can't give up that sarcastic side of myself

Oh my, thanks for bringing some humor to this fiasco! $\:D$
How much are cheese doodles vs horse grain? Maybe there is some savings there I haven't thought of! I figured that grain on the high side to favor H but I'll check into cheese doodles.
See how much we've saved by H refusing counseling and figuring out all on his own that I am the source of all problems?

I am going to the bank today to make the payment on H's line of credit. I know he won't do it, the banker always calls after it is due to tell H to pay it before it goes into default. Last time H only paid half of what was due and told me it was all taken care of. Right or wrong as far as the R or M and H making more accusations of how I drug him down, I will pay it because it is what is right for ME and the credit.

Besides, don't you think the horses would look good with that orange doodle dust on their noses?

I always end up with that orange doodle dust on my jeans cuz I keep wiping my fingers on my thigh... tell me I am not the only one! $\:\)$

No ma'am, you are not the only one. I thought that was normal though!

WCW, I can't figure how you can be responsible for debt that you are unaware of or can't get access to the info? It just boggles my mind! Can you not separate your financial stuff?

Your H is acting like a baffoon, and needs to realize that his foolish pride is not manly, and is, in fact, very childish.

I feel for you and hope this resolves itself soon.

Maybe I can work on an Orange Doodle horse treat, patent it, and get rich!

Oh, and um, I usually lick my fingers off before wiping them on my jeans, doesn't leave quite so much evidence. $;\)$

BeingMe, our finances are pretty much separated but nothing legally. H opened cc accounts in his name only, I have removed him from my accounts, there is one that somehow I am listed as a user on his account so it shows up on my report. We have access to each others checking etc but he has not crossed that line. He has his personal bills for himself and his business and the retail portion of the ranch stuff (such as grain and why it was on his account), I have my personal bills, all the ranch, usual house stuff and utilities. Up until a few years ago I paid the total mortgage and H did not contribute except for his horse training income. I was okay with that. He quit training. I let it ride for a while but got tired of him living the fun life while I scraped to put every penny in piles and count them to pay everything. I started asking him to pay 'his half' of the mortgage. He didn't like it but has been doing it for a couple of years. THAT may be what actually put a crimp in his plans - whether it was to move out or to repay debt - and why he harbors such anger. He had to cough up cash for the mortgage. I ruined his life. Oh poor H.

Regardless of H, I had a good day yesterday. People came in to ride (and pay), and a high school kid came to do a school project and videotaped me and my mare doing some stuff. H stood around to see what it was about, then there was a part that could use 2 horses so I asked if he would help. Now he is a movie star again. lol

Originally Posted By: WCW

Regardless of H, I had a good day yesterday.

You are an inspiration! $\:\)$

This morning I grabbed my purse and there was a keyring full of keys laying on top of it.
I asked H 'what's this?'
He put them in his pocket and changed the subject to a mitten he had found in the middle of the yard.
I asked him what the keys are for?
He said he didn't remember them all, they must have fallen out of his skibibs when he got home last night (and landed squarely on top of my purse?). One was for his gun case, bumble bumble bumble..., no other answers for about 6 keys. (I know at one time he had a key for a lockbox for ow and he threatened me 'if you ever tell anyone'.)
I said "and for your house in XXX?"
He started to nod no but didn't finish that nod, looked real sheepish, and tried to nod no again, we maintained eye contact, he didn't say anything. I left for work.

Tell me what you think.
It almost seems like H tires of his secret life and wants me to find out and then he gets all cranked at me and blames me.
When this all started he left cell phone bills lay around and I finally looked at them. Then he gets mad and had to hide them all. Blames me.
When his credit took a dump the statements laid around and I finally looked at them. Then he gets mad and made them all paperless. Blames me.
When I first had hints about his 'other place' he always denied. Now we had another money talk and these keys appear on top of my purse. Coincidence? I don't think so.
I wish I had not been so surprised and just grabbed them and put them in my pocket and not said anything.

Perhaps he's working up to actually leaving, and is trying not to make it a shock. Almost, like he's putting you down "gently"? There is a definite trend.

Will you be okay on your own?

Maybe you're right, he's certainly spent a lot of time working up to it so it won't be so shocking! lol
I've had a good idea of his other place for 2 years, why would he still be here? If he was leaving then why....phooeey, been thru that whole thought process and it's a waste of brain cells.

Will I be okay? yes.
I will still have a ton of heartache but I have a good idea of the physical changes I would need to make to make things flow.

One more vent about the feed! I was waiting for a water tank to fill tonight, it's a time to look over the pen of livestock and reflect on things. I thought back to a year ago, and what horses were in which pens, who was eating all that grain every week. Mother Mare was still with us then, and took extra feed and care. H acknowledged that. But you know what? last year I was still recovering from surgery and couldn't even carry a 50lb bag of feed! Any feed that went up the hill to get fed was taken there by H. And he blames me.

Now if I was feeding cheese doodles I could have carried those bags! $;\)$

Forging on...

I'll have to work a while to figure out how that was your fault. But you KNOW it was! $;\)$

(((WCW))) why do we love these men??? right now I would trade mine for a small bag of cheese doodles.

Why do we love these men-well, I think for many, our marriage vows is something we take seriously but as we go thru this we have our ups and downs, do we love them, why would I want him back, I really could care less what he does, I wish he would come home, and so on.................

I do think at times it is worse than our own kids teenage years.

You are right Mwg. My vows do mean something to me. I said for better or worse and I meant it! Thank for reminding me.

But that does not mean I am going to accept the unacceptable (just another reminder to myself).

Cowgirl, maybe you are at the lawyer's organizing your considered response to the Cheeto {cheese doodles?} problem, but I need you in "Hopefulness/Hopelessness". Things are getting weird. I am hostessing a schizzy thread with two petitioners. I am dispensing DB advice in a comically certain way and I feel so ALONE. Come back soon. Fix your marriage or move the couch out to the porch.. but consider coming back to "Hopelessness".

We are running amok.

Flicka, is there a thread with your "story" on it. I would like to catch up.

WCW are you cooling your heels or moving furniture? come on let us know how you are please $\:\)$

Originally Posted By: NNP1965

WCW are you cooling your heels or moving furniture? come on let us know how you are please $\:\)$

She's getting all gussied up to go to her Inagural Ball !!

Just hope those damn boots match!

Sorry for being MIA. Just stewing about a ton of things.

Where is the shaking my head in disbelief icon?

(((((WCW)))))

More fun, huh?

We are here for ya cowgirl... whenever you are ready, no pressure.

Hmmm.

Trying to hammer thru issues with H, it's like trying to crack concrete with a plastic bat.

My work party is tonight, and another social party an hour away. I receive a 30 year service award for work. H says he is coming with me to my work party and then we're going to the other party together.

Forward steps? yes, it is. H has stayed clear of any kind of party stuff with me for a couple of years. This is a recent change that we go places together.

Is it enough yet? No.

Hope you had a good time regardless if it's enough or not WCW! This night is about YOU!

How did the party go?

I hope the parties were great and congrats on your award. I am looking forward to hearing about your weekend.

My work party was good! I received my award, and a standing ovation from all the people I work with. <blush> Because I am one of the managers I also handed out awards. I also made it to the Top 4 of the Rock Paper Scissor Tournament and won a top prize.

The best part of the evening came unexpectedly when a person came over and told me how wonderful I looked while standing up front, my hair was so beautiful and I looked like I glowed. <BIG blush> How easy it is to make someone feel better with a few kind words. (make mental reminder!)

We never made it to the 2nd party as we ended up at the first one longer than planned because I advanced so far in the tournament.

But right now, H is doing chores but just poked his head in and asked if I had plans today....he invited me to join him today for his plans. Off we go, together. $\:\)$

Quote:

bnd, even though there is a difference between MLC and WAS the pain of being LBS is still there. That's why we are here for support. Limbo isn't fun.

You are absolutely right.....so let me clarify my statement on the other thread....

If the WAS is a MLC'er, then there are certain things that you can deal with, and there are ways to handle the situation.

We learn how to detach.
We read books on MLC.
We GAL and allow the MLC'er to deal with their own issues while we stay in the background, hoping that one day we will be able to provide them with a soft landing.

If the WAS is a just that, a Spouse who could not handle the relationship anymore then we must also come to grips with the fact that not every Marriage will be saved, no matter how hard we may try to make things work.

We have no control over our Spouse and the choices they make for their lives.

If they have chosen to end the relationship because they fell out of love and moved on and have never looked back, then we have to accept this, as hard as it may be.

Going to see a therapist for ourselves not for the Marriage.

Taking a look in the mirror and making those changes for ourselves not the Marriage.

Being a LBS in either situation is emotionally trying and can suck the hell out of you if you let it.

But each of us has to get to a point where they have to accept things for what they are.

It is what it is........

And you can make excuse after excuse for what the WAS is doing, but if there are no classic signs of MLC then you can analyze til the cows come home, ain't nothing going to change....and the LBS needs to GAL.

bnd, do you have a direct point to my sitch you are trying to make?

On MWG's thread, you made a comment to me....

I responded as you seemed to be a little irritated by my post.

I was only clarifying things for you, and rather then post on MWG's thread, I posted directly on yours.

I am sorry you feel that way, really. I don't know enough of your sitch to have an opinion.

Did something I say touch a nerve?

I have been in here for a while and I have a question...
How can you really tell which one it is...
WAS OR MLC who can really be sure...

The underlying condition that causes the behavior is depression, that is MLC. It is covered up, hidden, denied and ran away from depression: MLC. If it happens at a midpoint or near it in a life, it is MLC.
Many developmental stages are pinpointed in the lives of our children growing up. It is a rollercoaster up and down, from contentment and easy to raise, to fighting the boundaries and growth that characterize the terrible twos, the five/six year old yucky attitude... teenage rebellion/angst...... all the same developmental pattern,,,,, just another age but accompanied by an underlying trauma that has not been resolved, only surpressed and avoided.
The depression rears it's ugly head, and they look for a cure. A feel good cure, and it avoids the pain, covers it up::::::MLC.
Very simplistic definition, but I believe this highlights the real differences between MLC and WAS.

2cents worth, and not much more!

Hi WCW,

I've been reading your thread. I find yours and Flicka's posts very interesting and you both have such a great sense of humor. I can't believe you've been at this for 5 years. I'm almost at 2 and I think I might move to the MLC forum soon.

I've always admired horse women. I started horse back riding lessons when I turned 50 but when my great teacher left for another job I stopped. Now I have to start all over again!

I see in your signature line a quote from the great dancer Katherine Dunham. I'm a modern dance teacher and I teach my students about Dunham, as well as other formidable modern dancers like Martha Graham and Isadora Duncan who stayed true to themselves (and didn't put up with any crap from men!)

I hope you find peace in your life soon.

WCW, I truly believe your H and mine are MLC. There are soooo many ups and downs with them...back and forth...home and gone....confusion and depression...love and anger. They are NOT WAS'. WE know them best...no one here. Those here base their information on what we have to say here and what they choose to hear. WE see our H's daily and know them better than thier own mothers.

I see alot of positives in your sitch...always have. My sitch is improving and I have God to thank for that. Whether our H's decided to stay or go, we with both be absolutely fine and continue to be the great women we are. $\:\)$ $\:\)$ $\:\)$

Originally Posted By: brandnewday

On MWG's thread, you made a comment to me....

I responded as you seemed to be a little irritated by my post.

I was only clarifying things for you, and rather then post on MWG's thread, I posted directly on yours.

I am sorry you feel that way, really. I don't know enough of your sitch to have an opinion.

Did something I say touch a nerve?

I felt you were irritated so much that you had to come here to defend yourself. Which is why I asked in response if what you were posting was directed at my sitch. I thought it best to ask rather than wonder why now.

Originally Posted By: Holly06

The underlying condition that causes the behavior is depression, that is MLC. It is covered up, hidden, denied and ran away from depression: MLC. If it happens at a midpoint or near it in a life, it is MLC.
Many developmental stages are pinpointed in the lives of our children growing up. It is a rollercoaster up and down, from contentment and easy to raise, to fighting the boundaries and growth that characterize the terrible twos, the five/six year old yucky attitude... teenage rebellion/angst...... all the same developmental pattern,,,,, just another age but accompanied by an underlying trauma that has not been resolved, only surpressed and avoided.
The depression rears it's ugly head, and they look for a cure. A feel good cure, and it avoids the pain, covers it up::::::MLC.
Very simplistic definition, but I believe this highlights the real differences between MLC and WAS.

2cents worth, and not much more!

Do you think a prerequisite for MLC is being a conflict avoider? A person that has a life full of issues that they have run away from rather than facing up?

I've never really known if I should call my H a guy that is MLC or WAS or just someone that had a weird childhood, avoids conflict, jumps from excitement to excitement, is horrible with money, lost his mother, turned 50, had an ow dig into him, had a major injury, thrives on the next big deal, loves his ego stroked, tells me I have been nothing but pain and hurt for our whole M and never supported him, and I can't even feed a horse the right way.

Eeek, with that list I wonder why I ever wanted to be M to him to start with? Because the man I married is not the man I just described. The H I know is soft and caring and emotional and loving and loves family and people and is not afraid of hard work.

Originally Posted By: Silver Fox

Hi WCW,

I've been reading your thread. I find yours and Flicka's posts very interesting and you both have such a great sense of humor. I can't believe you've been at this for 5 years. I'm almost at 2 and I think I might move to the MLC forum soon.

I've always admired horse women. I started horse back riding lessons when I turned 50 but when my great teacher left for another job I stopped. Now I have to start all over again!

I see in your signature line a quote from the great dancer Katherine Dunham. I'm a modern dance teacher and I teach my students about Dunham, as well as other formidable modern dancers like Martha Graham and Isadora Duncan who stayed true to themselves (and didn't put up with any crap from men!)

I hope you find peace in your life soon.

Welcome Silver Fox. I can't believe it's been 5 years either. It's enough to make ya think the only way to survive this is to have your own MLC!

You have a lot of courage to start riding lessons at age 50! yeah for you! I find a large portion of my business comes from women who are getting back to horses after the kids have gotten old enough to blame it on the kids wanting a horse. $\:\)$ I also believe that even though the horses create a lot of hard work and frustration it is also my therapy. I'd say they have kept me from going crazy but I don't know if I can prove I am not crazy!

I would think your dancing for you is a lot like horses are for me. I confess I don't know Dunham but I love the line. I look for words of strength to glean from.

Flicka has quite a sense of humor alright. I still laugh when I think about her first communication with me! lol

I continue to work on finding my piece of peace. Thank you.

Thanks FG, living in this limbo has been extremely difficult. You, me, many of us here, we seek the support to get us thru this.

We can't usually do anything to hurry or rush or change our S. What we work on is us, and I've always tried to remember to be the person that my H fell in love with and vowed to M for the rest of our lives. I got away from who I was when I got so wrapped up in doing what I thought was supporting my H. I think I realize now that I was smothering him. Support vs smother.

Gaining strength to face the future. You too.

I spent the day with H. At his request we went together to a horsey thing and walked around and saw all sorts of friends and networked and made business deals and H was even drumming up some new business. We went to lunch with friends and then spent time with friends at their house. A pretty normal day in contrast to the hellish week we just came thru.

I do wonder if any of this 'new' behavior from H has to do with me telling him I am tired of dealing with the rumors and I don't know what to say anymore.

so this is where you're posting now.

Well, maybe he's reacting to you putting your foot down. When we maintain our own self-respect and boundaries, it makes us more attractive. Something about the other person finally realizing that we don't need them around to be happy.

lodo