Rummaging around the archives

[Smurf_SMR]

With the kind permission of Snodderly and M Go Blue, and others

[Smurf_SMR]

Snodderly (18/11/02) (11/18/02)

I'm going to tell you what I know from experiencing not once but twice. My ex-h began his mlc probably in 1998. The replay is a very gradual stage. To me, it is the second worse stage of mlc. Anger being the first. My ex-h began to use the computer all of the time. He was in chatrooms talking to people about things that didn't make sense to me, but to him they did. He was into porno sites, he watched a lot of tv and slowly withdrew from me and the activities that he once loved. He shaved his head and started dressing like the kids of today. I thought he was trying to get attention. Little did I know that I was in the midst of a living hell. His taste in food, drinks, music and clothes began to change more and more. That summer, we were at every amusement park, carnival and concert that was available. He became moody and started searching on the net in classmates.com for people he went to school with 20+ years ago. He started driving around his old hometown just looking and doing whatever else he did to think about the past. He began looking at old photos and talking about the past w/his family. This was all new to me, since he never talked much about his past. This man was a loner and didn't have many friends. During mlc, the mlcers feel very alone and will isolate themselves from the people who really care. There were times he couldn't account for in his day. He slept a lot and his moods swung back and forth. He would act childish one minute and in the next wanted to be treated as an adult. There were times he wanted to be alone and others he didn't. He began to acquire aches, pains and illnesses. He acquired new friends that were either separated or divorced and were not of his type before. He wanted to take our life savings and put it on the stock market. Money began to disappear from the accounts and that's when I put a hold on the funds. His memory became really bad during this time. Before too long, he was on the net looking for houses to rent. He was talking of moving out every time something didn't suit him. Once he moved out, I discovered the OW. I truly believe had I not finally called his bluff on moving out, he would be at home today or 6 feet under. The OW was ugly to boot. Now, the old timers are constantly repeating to you over and over again, the OW is nothing but a catalyst to help him out the door. She is nothing but someone that he feels he can talk to and get admiration, encouragement and stroking of the ego and yes, SEX. Not what we call making love, but down right SEX. This woman means absolutely nothing to him. He is searching for someone to act as a mother during this part of his crisis. How can you love your mother in an intimate relationship? You can't. So, please keep in mind, she's nothing. Now, during the replay stage, your man is hurting terribly. The pain is awful. There are days when they simply can't get through the day. They will isolate themselves from you and anyone of the present time. They do love you, but it is buried very deep during this time, as the inner child has taken over and has taken them back in time. I have heard it from the PI that I had hired that my ex-spoke of nothing of the present or future. He talked of the past and all that he had done and the type of job he currently has. He did say he lived in my town one time, but that was it. He had gone back in time. I didn't exist until he had a moment of sanity. They tend to put the present and all that's in it in a box and store it away until they need a reality check in the real world. It's not that they don't care about you or how you feel about things, they are just incapable of doing anything for you right now. They are trying to find ways to ease their pain and they sure as hell can't talk to us the people who love them. Don't even think that they are out there having the time of their lives because they aren't. Sure they may go on trips, but the change of scenery lifts their spirits for just a little while and the inner child comes calling them back to their living hell. They may party or spend money, but the pain never goes away. They can't sleep at night because they are afraid of the demons and from dying. They are up all night on the internet or in bars just to keep their minds from driving them crazy. Their brains are racing 24/7 and there's no way to stop the thoughts that are flying around inside. They are pinballing off the walls at times. They have highs and then lows. Their world is not fun nor happy. Take a real good look at your man. Has he lost weight, is he pale and ashen, check out the dark circles, wrinkles, graying hair, dead eyes and above all no smile on his face. Does this spell happiness? No, it doesn't. It tells me that your man is going through an emotional trauma that none of you can ever imagine. They can't talk to us because they are afraid we will tell them to snap out of it and get on with their lives. They are afraid that we will judge them, criticize them or make fun of them. They can't bear to be around us because of their shame and guilt for something that happened to them so long ago. They feel dirty and confused and look at us as the authority figures in their lives. They want us close, but yet they want us to leave them alone to figure things out. Their apartments, etc. become their safe havens and you probably will not be told where they are living. It is the only safe place that they can go and cry and be by themselves to deal w/their crisis and the horrible emotional pain. Their memories become awful. They will tell you that they will come by, email you or phone you. They won't remember. Time for the mlcer is very slow and is not the same for us. You see, your mlcer has gone back in time and must search for what is missing from that growth period. I never understood any of this the first time around. Because I didn't understand what was happening, my ex-h divorced me. I was given the opportunity to go through another crisis w/someone else and you know what? He's doing the exact same things that my ex-h did. Troting right down memory lane. Each and every mlcer will do the exact same things, but in various degrees. Please understand that what your spouses are saying and doing is nothing personal against you. He is dealing w/his crisis in the best way possible. I will caution you, do not threaten, argue, plead, cry or show anger towards your mlcer. It will do no good except make him extremely angry. They are very good at lying, deceiving and manipulating at this time. The person you knew is now the mirror image of the man you were married to. They become totally opposite and you have to accept him as he is today. If you don't, you will have created a lot of heartache for yourselves. The best advice that I can give to each of you is this, be compassionate

The advice I was given three years ago was to leave them alone, allow them to come to you when they need your support. The less you aggravate them, the quicker they will heal.

I know that you are having a very hard time dealing with your man's crisis, but if you continue to allow the OW to enter into your thoughts all of the time, you are giving her control over your situation. She is absolutely nothing to you or your h. He's using her as a bandaid for his pain. Affairs will last anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. If you must deal w/your mlcer, always speak to him in a very calm voice and never bring up the OW.

Sooner or later, the OW will slip up and begin to set demands and that's where you will enter the picture w/a safe haven for him. Always, always keep your expectations at zero when dealing w/your spouses.

it's important to step back and not react to their childish ways. Always remember, the more you react to their antics, the more they will do them. Ignore them and eventually the antics will cease. Just like dealing w/a child.

[Smurf_SMR]

Snodderly (20/11/02) (11/20/02)

Replay takes a very long time, depending upon their issues. Some can be as short as 7 months and others 2-3 years. Just remember that the less you aggravate them, the sooner they will heal and move on into acceptance

We can handle our situations w/class and strength. They thought we would end up like them--confused, upset, in pain, etc. The happier you are, the worse that they will feel. I've seen this several times. In their sick little minds, they want us to be as miserable as they are, don't go there! A word of advice, never let your h see you upset or crying. They can't handle the guilt of such sightings.

[Smurf_SMR]

Snodderly (22/11/02) (11/22/02

I was thinking about the word "simple". Have you ever noticed how your darling little mlcer talks about having things simple, or wanting a simpler life? Well, if you think about it, they are talking about the days when they were young, free w/no obligations, and no one to answer to. What is so very sad about this is that they can't go back in time and be that young again. They are now adults w/obligations, i.e., spouse, family, house payment, car payment, debts and jobs. Life really is never "simple", it's what you make it. The mlcer that is traveling through time thinks that if he can get rid of everything, he/she will be free and have a "simple" life. No, no. It doesn't work that way. They create such a mess along the way and complicate things even more. They destroy marriages, families, their self respect, friendships, etc. They are out there spending to their heart's content, not even thinking about how they are going to pay their bills. They now have two residences to pay for and two "families" to maintain. The OW/OM is going to want more than a smile and pat on the back--they are going to want a good time which entails spending money, etc. The mlcer will either lose their jobs or they will quit them because they are too much for them to deal w/right now. They will take minimum wage positions just so that they have no responsibility, but it's never "simple" for them. "Simple" is an illusion or the brass ring that they can never catch. Just think about what they have to face when they do wake up from being Rip Van Winkles! If they think life was complicated before their journey, whew boy! It will be even more complicated when they wake up.

[Smurf_SMR]

M Go Blue (22/11/02) (11/22/02)

The OW/OM is their drug of choice. This person helps them to numb their pain from the past versus deal with it. They run right in to the arms of someone who will understand them and not judge them. The OW/OM are a temporary bandaid to their search for happiness.

[Smurf_SMR]

M Go Blue (27/12/02) (12/27/02)

For the spouse who is not in MLC, the perception is always that the MLC spouse is doing things to hurt them. They are not. At least not intentionally.

The MLC person is running from their pain, and are in great fear. They are in search for happiness. They have carried painful emotions inside of them since childhood, and now these feelings have come to the surface again. Instead of trying to understand these feelings, they run from them and seek pleasure to bury their pain.

A MLC person mistakes PLEASURE, for HAPPINESS. The PLEASURE they get out of being irresponsible, self centered, free living is mistaken for finding true happiness. The OW/OM to them brings PLEASURE, which they equate to HAPPINESS.

It is percieved by the LBS that the WAS is the cause of all their pain and unhappiness. Just as the WAS justified their reason for leaving in the first place.

If we place our HAPPINESS in the hands of others, we will be very dissapointed most of the time. Happiness is a choice. We can choose to understand what true happpiness is and then try and make it a part of our daily thinking and attitude.

Happiness is within us. It does not come from the external world of the right spouse, the right home the right car the right job. If we continue to look for happiness through this external power, we will have feelings of nothing is ever "good enough." Seeking contentment with what we have vs. what we don't have is part of the step towards happiness.

When we hang onto the thought that our happiness is determined on whether our spouse comes back or returns to who we thought they used to be, we are not taking control of our own happiness. Happiness is achieved through our own thoughts and attitude, It is not controlled by others. It is within our own control, yet we give that control to others.

The only things within our control is our own thoughts, our attitude, and the choices we make.

Try asking yourself this question before you make your next choice. "Will this choice I am about to make bring me happiness?" I believe it will give you an opportunity to look at your choices from a different perspective.

[Smurf_SMR]

M Go Blue (22/01/04) (01/22/04)

As I continually analyze MLC, I believe that those who are the extreme cases, had childhoods where they did not learn how to deal with conflict and emotional feelings.

They were taught and told to stop their crying, quit complaining, and that all emotional feelings were not valid. Basically, they were taught that you shouldn't be feeling what your feeling. That there was something wrong with you if it brought you to a point of crying. Crying was a bad thing. Speaking up for what you were feeling was a bad thing. What they learned was to supprerss their emotional pain and pretend it didn't exist. Many learned to puit of the "Happy face" even though inside of them was filled with anger and resentment for not being able to truly express their feelings.

They learned coping skills versus problem solving skills. They learned to run, hide and live in a world of denial about their pain. Instead of facing their pain head on and learning about themselves and what was the root cause of the pain.

Feelings of insecurity and not being good enough or feeling loved and appreciated were running wild within them as children. As an adult, they finally explode and attempt to take charge of their lives by demanding to be in control at all costs and disregard to others. their pain has reached such a boiling point that they are blinded by all the harm they are doing to others around them. There only concern and focus is to make their pain go away, evn if it causes pain to others.

So what does the MLC spouse do? They set out on a "feel good" path. They begin doing anything and everything that makes them feel good. They look for quiuck fixes or a dose of "feel good" everyday. Be it by drinking, shopping, gambling or losing yourself in the euphoria of a bew love relationship. They enter the world of "la la land." Where everything is wondeful, and it's because they have finally taken control of their life and their own happiness.

It is their duty, or to some, their right to protect this new found good feeling at all cost. To strike back at anyone who challenges them and their new discovery of happiness.

The MLC spouse looks at those closest to them as controlling and the root of all their pain. Any attempts by the LBS spouse to control them or their thinking when it comes to saving the marriage, is to be fought with all force and furry from their buried pain.

The LBS begins to look and act just like the MLC parents when growing up, at least in the eyes of the MLC spouse. The LBS is now enemy . Any attempts to control will be met with anger and hurtful words to get the LBS to back off.

It is deffinetly crazy times while the MLC and LBS do their continual dance. The lesson for all the LBS is, to stop doing the dance. It is only making things worse.

You were very fortunate in having such great teachers as your parents snodderly. The only way to rid yourself of pain is to work through it. Face it head on, as it will no dissapear inb time.

The old saying, "time heals all wounds," to me is only half true. Time can help, but only if you choose to face the pain, deal with it, understand the root of it, and then begin the healing process. All which takes time. And not to forget, great PATIENCE.

[lancer]

smr, this information is invaluable, and timely. Thanks for doing all this research! This fits W to a T, I think.

[Bowtech]

This is helpful.

[job]

SMR,
You did a very nice job! Do you need glasses yet from reading all of the archived files? The postings brought back many memories of so long ago and now I just sit back and think. Wow! Did I really post that?

Keep plugging away. There are still many good threads out there that need excerpts taken from them. You may want to do a search on Clarke Kent as well. He was posting around 1999-2001.

[Smurf_SMR]

Snodderly 03/04/06

I see your w is h@ll bent on a divorce and from the get go as well. I'm sorry she's bound and determined to do this, but it's par for course for some of the mlcers to do this. Yes, divorce is unnecessary and very costly all for a piece of paper when she could just up and leave and do her own thing and come back when she's done. However, in her little mind, she thinks that she must severe the ties w/you, the relationship and family in order to have the freedom to do whatever she wants. "Freedom is another word for nothing left to do." I bet she can't even tell you want she's got her sights set on these days in the way of freedom to do things. I will say this, the grass in her rose colored shades will turn to weeds and dirt once the the papers are signed and she wakes up. It's called the search for illusive happiness and it is not found in outward things, but must be found within. In time she will discover this.

You see, wanting a divorce and pushing for one is her way to maintain control over the situation as well. They want to show everyone that they are in control, they know what they are doing at all times and no matter what, they are going to get what they want. In the end, when the crisis is over, it will not be what she thought divorce was. She's forgetting that once she's divorced, you are not liable for anything she does, you don't have to be there to pick her up when she's down. She will then have to figure things out for herself. The one important thing that she will be forced to finally do is to focus on herself and her ugly demon issues. Right now, she's not focusing on the healing part of her crisis. She's focusing on pushing and prodding to get the divorce done. Lancer, I understand how you feel. I was there once too, but I did learn and did come to understand very much so why they need to do this. In the end, if your divorce does occur, it's only a piece of paper and if you still love her enough when she wakes up, you can reconcile. I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but when they are on the train heading for a wreck, it's very hard to turn them around. Sometimes it's better to let them wreck and/or self-destruct and heal from the bottom up. I know that she's sucked you into her drama and hopefully you can detach a bit more and come to realize you need to severe yourself from her drama in order to breathe again.

Remember, this isn't about you at all, but about her and what she needs to do to heal from her childhood demons. In the end, what she's been looking for will actually be what she ran away from and destroyed in the process. Sometimes the relationship can be mended and in other instances it can't be. When that time comes, only you will be able to determine if you want to reconcile w/her. I'm hoping she'll come out the other side a more mature, wiser woman than she is exhibiting right now.

[DBHOPEFUL]

I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but this one really hit me...

My Thoughts On Why They Run Away During Their Crisis

Snodderly 06/13/02

Generally the man/woman in crisis has had a terrible childhood. Their childhoods consisted of parents that fought, drank, did drugs, physically and mentally abused their children, emotionally distanced themselves from their children, but most of all abandoned their children. The more I read about the various "learned" personality traits, the more I'm convinced that as children they were mentally abused to the point of not believing in themselves at all. They felt dirty, unwanted, stupid, worthless, their self esteem was shot to hell. The parents had these children, but really didn't love them unconditionally. Most of the "crisis" children have ADHD, ADD, PA, BPD traits. They suffer from bouts of depression, are very good at lying, picking fights, defensive, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, sex and spending. As I've listened to my friend, I've come to realize that even though "crisis" children appear normal on the outside, they have a constant internal war going on inside of themselves. They have been damaged beyond repair at that young age and it will take many years for them to even feel safe w/another person, if then. They feel very threatened by anyone that comes near them emotionally and physically. They can't handle it because they fear that this person will hurt them or take away whatever it is that they hold near and dear in their lives. As the "crisis" child grows up, he/she tends to be a loner, stays to him/herself and doesn't trust anyone to enter their safety zone. They tend to not show their emotions except in bouts of anger and are very guarded about their thoughts and feelings. They tend to distance themselves from others. I call this the dance, because when a person gets close to the "crisis" individual, he/she will distance enough to not feel threatened. You the spouse will never know the real person that lives within the "crisis" person until the two personalities are merged into one. The person you know is actually the shell of a person and he/she is very good at masking what he/she is really thinking at all times. However, during the major growing times, i.e., 20's, 30, and 40's (mid-life especially), the "crisis" person has another problem. It's at this time that the "crisis" child is starting to raise its ugly head, becomes stronger and wants to voice it's opinions on how that person was mistreated as a child. It's at this time, that the splintering/splitting occurs. This where the crisis child is doing internal battle with the crisis adult. The battle is a 24/7 emotional roller coaster for the adult. The pain, hurt and anger are there 24/7 w/o any relief. I've sat and listened to my friend speak of many things that happened in his childhood and to hear the hurt and anguish in his voice makes me want to cry for him. It is at this time when the emotional pain becomes so great that the adult can't handle any other stress in his/her life. This person doesn't trust the spouse enough to speak about the turmoil inside. They feel that the spouse will not accept them for who they are right at this moment. Why? Because that person has now entered mlc and will be there for a while. That person knows that something is terribly wrong and knows that he/she must leave in order to heal those long ago hurts. If you recall, as children, when we were scared or punished, we all wanted to run away. Remember those times? Well, this is what is happening to your mlcer. They are very scared and very hurt and they only thing that they know how to do is run, as the "crisis" child comes on the scene. The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.

As spouses and friends of the mlcers, we must always keep in mind that they are in a very fragile state when the "crisis" child gains control. They are so confused and hurt. The anger is not at you, but at what life has dished out to them. It's the hurt coming out and it's really a delayed reaction to how they were mistreated as children. We have to remember to treat them kindly and with compassion during this time. Why? Because this could have happened to you. During the "crisis" child stage, you will be viewed as the mother/father authority figure, therefore you are the one that gets the brunt of what is happening. They are afraid to speak to their parents for fear of what the parents will do to them. Who better than us to get the emotional flack? They know we love them, they just don't know how to deal with the emotional pain that goes so very deep. Folks, I've had many long conversations w/my friend and I can tell you, he is suffering terribly from his "crisis" childhood. Until he resolves his issues and speaks to his father, he will continue to run and never heal.

I hope that this will help some of you better understand what is happening. I'd welcome all of your comments. As time goes by, I'll post more of my thoughts and observations. Mlc is not a pretty sight by any means, especially if the mlcer is willing to sit down and speak to you about how he/she is feeling. That's why it is so very important to be a friend during the crisis. You will learn so much more about what is going on. Keep the expectations to zero and I feel very strongly that your spouses "crisis" child will speak to you. Listen carefully, sift through the garbage coming out of their mouths and the answers are all there. It's not about you, but about them and how they were mistreated as children.

Take care.

[Smurf_SMR]

M Go Blue (07/31/03)

n retrospect, what I have learned is that my own fears of abandonment, led to my attempts to control and change my xw desire to separate. What I should have done, is show my love for her by setting her free. By not having any expectations of her, allowing her to discover who she was, and than letting her be that person.

My attempts to change my xw beliefs on separation and divorce were not coming from my love of her. These actions and behaviors were from my fears.

We can live and act from a belief in love and trust, or we can suffer in a world of fear and doubt. it's all a choice within our control.

[angstuff1]

Me, too. But how does one REALLY, TRULY let go of those fears and control? There are times I think I've done it, only to find myself 'disappointed' and sad when my expectations aren't met yet again. I am trying to let my H go, but his calling and coming over don't make it easier. How do we truly let go for the good of all?

[Dust_In_The_Wind]

Until he resolves his issues and speaks to his father, he will continue to run and never heal.

What happens to the MLC'er whose parents are deceased? He can't confront them or talk with them.....so will this stay unresolved forever?

[Smurf_SMR]

It is all to do with acceptance. Coming to terms with the issues and accepting them. It does not have to be a confrontation, Twisted_Inside's husband came to his acceptance, by visiting his fathers grave.

[Dust_In_The_Wind]

It can come in flashbacks

Thanks, Laughing......I see your point...Unfortunately, it seems the only flashbacks H is having concern memories of the bad times.

Seems to be so deep in MLC, he can't even conjure up the good times when D15 or I talk about a vacation or a fun experience. He just has this blank look on his face....D15 will say, "Don't you remember, dad, how much we laughed at such and such?" and H will say, "No, I don't remember".

Wow, this is really scarry stuff!

[Smurf_SMR]

M Go Blue (18/01/07) (01/18/07)

Learning to "detach with love" is so important to getting your life back on tract. We don't have to stop loving our MLC spouses, but we do need to do it from a distance.

Establishing BOUNDARIES is very important for the LBS to have some level of self-esteem or self-worth. The LBS needs to protect themselves from the verbal abuse the MLC spouse trys to project onto them.

When a MLC spouse says they never loved us, or they list all the things that are wrong with us, it blows are self worth into a million pieces. The MLC spouse needs to stop allowing the MLC spouse to continue degrading them as if they have no value.

The MLC spouse projects their pain and own feelings of not being good enough onto the LBS so that they feel better about themselves.

A person with low self-esteem often has to put down others in order to make themselves feel better about who they are.

A MLC person is attempting to overcome his or her own insecurities by bringing up all the shortcoming of his or her spouse. By making their spouse out to be not good enough, the MLC spouse begins to believe that he or she "is good enough."

I know, this is a little twisted. But a MLC spouse looks at their LBS as pathetic, weak, and not worthy of them. Why? Because it is how they protect themselves and avoid dealing with their own issues of feeling not good enough, loveable, respected, appreciated, validated,..etc.

To all newomers and early stage LBS;

In the early days of trying to understand your spouses MLC and why are they doing this, it is very confusing. In time, with great people like Snodderly posting, you will begin to see things for what they are.

Take it day by day, focus on your own needs and health as well of those of your children. Over time, life will become settled again and you will look back at this experience from a totally different persepctive.