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Posted By: susana4 When to give up on a counselor? - 01/20/15 02:00 PM
I am wondering how to know when it’s time to give up on an MC/when you know they’re hindering rather than helping?

H was resistant to MC at first, eventually agreed (am now regretting I pushed so hard because he might not have been ready).

We’ve been to two different MCs. First one was my mistake, I wanted to see someone as quickly as possible so I took my friend’s referral of her individual therapist. Big mistake, she was not experienced at MC. H really liked her but in the 2nd session she told us she’s not used to counseling couples and could only meet with us individually. Later looked her up and she has no formal qualifications/is not registered with the body that regulates counseling here.

I found a new MC via a relationship charity. She has a lot of qualifications and 15 years experience in MT. However this was prior to reading DR so I didn’t ask her about her stance on marriage, no. of couples she’s counseled who stayed together etc.

First session went well, she set concrete goals for us to work on some issues.

2nd session last week was very upsetting, MC was just dredging up old issues and not addressing our goals at all I felt - then halfway through session she turned to us and said ‘So I think this relationship is definitely over?’ H said yes, he wants to proceed with D; I said no, we still haven’t even tried to work through issues so I don’t think so. MC then proceeded to say ‘well, if you’d only come 6 months earlier...’

Is it really too late? In DR Michele says no MC can pronounce an M dead.
Is it time to drop this MC?
We have another session booked for this week.
Posted By: Cadet Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/20/15 09:42 PM
The problem with most marriage counselors is that if both parties dont want the marriage to work out then it can be a waste of time and money.

Sounds like you are all in but is your husband?

Maybe a DB coach would be a better idea.
Posted By: Vince H Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/20/15 09:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Cadet
The problem with most marriage counselors is that if both parties dont want the marriage to work out then it can be a waste of time and money.

Sounds like you are all in but is your husband?

Maybe a DB coach would be a better idea.

Exactly.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/20/15 10:14 PM


Many (if not most) marriage counselors want the "whole story" and the background and childhood, ETC (ETC ETC)

IMO, there really is a role for all of ^^ this. But in a marital crisis, and or when one wants out, it's just way too time consuming, and usually ends up being a REHASH of the past grievances.

Most of the time I felt worse after a MC session, not better. I assume h felt the same way b/c he sure didn't enjoy it.


When someone is saying "DB is solution based", they mean to find out what behaviors make things better AND OR worse.

Identify those, ^^and act accordingly. It is a Simple, but profoundly different, almost radical approach to marriage problems.

I've had a truly good mc, and I still feel this way. But with him (i.e. the good mc) I suggested the DB approach and he then read it and bought into it.

So we worked together from there. You can try that if you like but I'm not sure getting a DB coach anyhow, isn't the best route.

I did both. If I could only do one, it'd be the DB coach. She saved my m
Posted By: susana4 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/21/15 12:54 AM
Thanks for the advice all! I am all in but H is definitely not - he is not wavering since the bomb drop, he keeps stating he's made up his mind which I still can't wrap my head around because prior to the BD he NEVER said he was unhappy or acted like it at all! He went from 0 to 60 and is now absolutely insistent his mind is made up. frown I don't really understand why he agreed to counseling at all when he was so adamant.

I've read DR and have implemented last resort so I'm not sure if the MC is a waste of time. It seems contradictory to do last resort and ignore H most of the time and then go to the MC and spend an hour crying, rehashing our childhoods etc. Since I implemented last resort 2 weeks ago I've seen a massive improvement - there's a lot less tension in the house, he shows an interest in where I've been and tries to initiate conversation, he's complimenting my appearance and being more physically affectionate and flirtatious. After seeing the MC, by contrast, I feel worse.

Thanks cadet and 25yearsmlc, I will look into the DB coach. H and I have another session with MC Thursday - think I will tell him if he's not happy with it it should be our last. Then I will take the $$ and put it towards a DB coach instead...
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/21/15 09:21 PM
Good luck and please remember NOT to believe anything he says and only half of what he does...

and nothing in written in stone anyhow. Even if he is POSITIVE he wants out, that can change.

And btw, my GOOD MC said "if I'm not helping you make changes within half a dozen or so visits, then I'm not helping you enough and you should go elsewhere".

IF the mc is harming the relationship after 2 visits, I'd say "enough."

That's just ME but the comment from the marriage counselor ^^ makes a lot of sense to me.

Good luck and keep at this. A LOT of us believed our marriages were over and they weren't.

((( )))
Posted By: susana4 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/22/15 01:23 AM
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement, 25, they mean so much! I've loved reading the success stories on here especially because they've given me hope. smile

His words are confusing and contradictory so I think that advice makes sense... (He says he's 100% certain he wants out, yet he also says he's still in love with me, still attracted to me, and doesn't want to be with anyone else - confusing!)

I ended up going ahead and booking DB coach and had first call today! She was great. I felt really supported (WAY more than with the MC) and also it was nice to see exactly how the book could be applied in my case. Thank you so, so much for the DB coach recommendation 25 and cadet!

We've got a session booked to see MC tomorrow (can't cancel due to cancellation policy) but I'm going to tell H before we go in that I don't want to book another on the spot, I want to discuss afterwards whether we think it's useful going... My gut feeling is that he's not getting much out of it (he hasn't outright said but he looks unhappy during the sessions) nor am I so we should stop. *But* I feel a little guilty calling it a day on the therapy, it feels like giving up (even though I haven't given up hope). And I'm worried H will think I've given up hope.
Posted By: susana4 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/22/15 10:06 AM
So I just got back from MC and have an update.

Very strange session today...

MC cautioned us against coming back because I mentioned I'm starting individual counselling soon (CBT for anxiety and depression), and she said it's not a good idea to go to two counselors at once, you might get conflicting advice. Has anyone else heard this from a counselor? I thought that it would be a bad idea to see two different MCs, but okay to see an IC as well as an MC.

MC was overall less negative than last time. On the one hand, I felt like we got some useful stuff out of the session, she delved a bit into our cycle of me feeling anxious-H feeling responsible for my feelings-me leaning on him for support and not dealing with the issue. I learned that H had never felt anxiety (!) so he felt it hard to relate. And he also admitted he is scared of continuing to live together (we've agreed to carry on living together for next few months until I sort a financial situation out) because he's worried a huge fight will erupt between us, even though things seem good (seems to me like maybe he's seen the changes I've made since DB-ing but doesn't believe they'll stick). So there were some worthwhile insights.

*But* MC carried on as though D is inevitable, and kept referring to 'life after the breakup' and 'this new phase of your relationship'. I don't know if she's treating D as a foregone conclusion or if she's just validating H (because he keeps saying he definitely doesn't want to stay together)?

H and I agreed to discuss tonight whether we want to return.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/27/15 06:43 PM
Many counselors feel that there should only be one in place. That treatment becomes fragmented when there are 2. I dont know if I agree with that. Sadly counselors are not trained or believe a M should be saved (i shouldnt generalize). The couple is their patient and they want their patient to feel good. If that means D so be it as long as the patient feels better. And absolutly change counselors if this one aint working out. Db coaches are great.

One observation. You continue to get into fights with him. Dont you think that your outbursts are harming your goals?
Posted By: susana4 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/29/15 12:33 AM
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
Many counselors feel that there should only be one in place. That treatment becomes fragmented when there are 2. I dont know if I agree with that. Sadly counselors are not trained or believe a M should be saved (i shouldnt generalize). The couple is their patient and they want their patient to feel good. If that means D so be it as long as the patient feels better. And absolutly change counselors if this one aint working out. Db coaches are great.

So an update here, we agreed last night to drop the MC. H told me didn't feel she was useful either. I told him I want to focus on working on some of my issues I've identified. He said he's working on his (this was news to me, and I was surprised and pleased!) and told me a few things he'd done differently lately.

I've got a DB coach now (had one session so far) which I think is a better $$$ investment anyway. smile

Originally Posted By: Rick1963

One observation. You continue to get into fights with him. Dont you think that your outbursts are harming your goals?

I've been trying really hard to learn to be less reactive and not get into arguments (I've realised that it's something I really need to work on, I have also been quite reactive and I realised we had a lot of unnecessary arguments over small things), so H and I haven't had a fight since the end of December. I think this is why H commented that he's scared we will get into a fight - he is not used to not having a fight for so long and doesn't believe it could last..
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/29/15 01:56 AM
Good to recognize. You must bring your reactions to zero. You can disagree without emotions such as anger sarcasm etc.. i was very reactionary. I got very angry and nasty about stuff. Mostly about my daughters upbringinng. Even though i was right I wonder now if ex could have been more open to my suggestions if i wasnt so pushy and intense. My daughter is 18 now. Not working and dropped out in the 9th grade. She is home on her computer doing nothing. I just had to let go. Hardest thing to do. But sometimes the best thing to do is nothing....

Stop fighting him.....it may get better
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/29/15 02:03 AM
And I walked from my 1st M cause she fought me everyday. Mostly for working 16 hr days. She didnt work and i needed to. It is all about how you present an issue
Posted By: susana4 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 01/29/15 01:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
Good to recognize. You must bring your reactions to zero. You can disagree without emotions such as anger sarcasm etc.. i was very reactionary. I got very angry and nasty about stuff. Mostly about my daughters upbringinng. Even though i was right I wonder now if ex could have been more open to my suggestions if i wasnt so pushy and intense. My daughter is 18 now. Not working and dropped out in the 9th grade. She is home on her computer doing nothing. I just had to let go. Hardest thing to do. But sometimes the best thing to do is nothing....

Stop fighting him.....it may get better


Thanks Rick, you're right. I think what I struggle with is going to one extreme or the other - either disagreeing with anger and emotions, or not disagreeing at all. How to disagree in a healthy way, without anger? Still working to figure that one out....
Posted By: BW911 Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 04/04/15 11:59 PM
Our counselor was pretty horrible too. One our very first visit it was chalk full of "how do you feel" and "how does that make you feel" type canned responses. Oh, AND she dropped the reference about if our sessions weren't productive then we needed to be able to discuss how we were going to co-parent. I was like WHAT?! thats not someone who's backing the relationship.

Our first 2 sessions were about our history, what hurt her, what hurt me, and how sorry I was. Both sessions ended with my W saying she needed more time to think. No goals, nothing productive at all. Anyway, we quit going to ours after the 3rd visit and much of the same crap. And the 3rd one was where my W told me she had filed for D.

If ANY MC pushes dissolution of the M.... then I say drop them and drop them quick. Ive got a real relationship counselor setup, but now.... my W is pretty resistant to trying anything more.

GL though susana! I think its great that you're both working on things.
Posted By: ktfo Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 11/18/15 03:46 AM
So I did individual counseling on Friday, and it was good in the aspect of that everything I told her that my wife was doing post A was what everyone wants. That we "are ahead of the process because she's been fully compliant and chose me" LOL chose me? LOL I laugh ... she new what she had (not to be arrogant) and it wasn't enough for some reason. I go back Dec 2.

Went to MC on saturday together, gave her the general info, including the A and she was not all that helpful. And the worst part was my W said NOTHING! She just sat there, and said very very little. This is my biggest fear, she really is not willing to work or share... the only thing I got out of it was that she drove to him to be with him. Awesome? LOL I just laugh... I love this woman sooooo much, yet i'm an after thought to some guy who chatted her up ... I'm afraid that through this all her main goal is to say nothing, and hope I just let it go. We go again saturday, and well I have very little hope that my W is willing to open up. If she says nothing again, Im' going to suggest we stop going and maybe she should goto individual counseling where Im' not present so she can find out WTF is wrong.
So saturday evening I'll have an update of some sort..
Posted By: - MB - Re: When to give up on a counselor? - 12/18/15 05:23 PM
Code:
Good luck and keep at this. A LOT of us believed our marriages were over and they weren't. 

25yearsmic, I was just wondering if you could tell me what changed in your marriage after 3 years that allowed you guys to work things out and get back together? I would love to hear how what happened that allowed your success story to actually work out. I'm just looking for ANY hope to hold on to at this point. Thanks.
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