Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 4

Previous thread Part 3 http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=62193&Number=2855629#Post2855629

W is off for Summer. Its my night with S1. Just came home from work to find In-Law's baby sitting. W is out. Im just speculating, and I am not going to ask, but that funny feeling tells me she is doing the L consultation. I said
"Have a a Good Day this morning through text. No response. Must be due to guilt. In Laws left immediately after I got home after some small talk.

Here we go... I guess Im going back into "Ghost Mode" again and making myself completely positive, and extremely scarce. Thank God I have S1, a few good GAL plans, and Jesus to focus on.

Amen brother!

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

W is off for Summer. Its my night with S1. Just came home from work to find In-Law's baby sitting. W is out. Im just speculating, and I am not going to ask, but that funny feeling tells me she is doing the L consultation. I said
"Have a a Good Day this morning through text. No response. Must be due to guilt. In Laws left immediately after I got home after some small talk.

Here we go... I guess Im going back into "Ghost Mode" again and making myself completely positive, and extremely scarce. Thank God I have S1, a few good GAL plans, and Jesus to focus on.

Just put two and two together. Her file box is out on the bed in her room, vanity mirror left out in living room, which means make up and professional presentation, and In-laws said S1 went down for nap at 12:30 PM. So she has been out for at least 4 hrs. This is definitely no regular appointment.

W came home from appointment at 4pm. Didn't expect me home yet. Was at "appointment" for 4 hours. Looked professionally dressed. Took a 30mim nap. Got changed, changed again back into original attire. Went back out for 2 hour IC appointment. She was in driveway playing with phone for at least 20 minutes after IC appointment. Came in with black nin labeled folder and his it in her room right away after trying to make polite friendly convo. Asked what time I would be home from work Friday. Wanted to squeeze in nail appointment. She's going to a bbq tomorrow. I have S1. In convinced there is something going on, her phone habits are extremely excessive lately. Been doing my best to keep my cool. IM CLIMBING THE FYCKING WALLS TONIGHT!! Reattachment, insecurities and denial is a gift that keeps on giving every step closer she takes. Losing my $hit on the inside, but still cool on the outside. It passes eventually.I have been upbeat and friendly though, and focused on S1, movies, comedies, distractions, whatever to take my mind off this. GOD PLEASE WAKE ME UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE!!! WAKE UP HER FROM THIS NIGHTMARE!!! I just want to blow it all up. Everytime I interact, I try to imagine Jesus's face, when I get into the negative zone, I try to imagine his face.
I keep trying not to blow things up and just go off her, and say F@$! IT ALL and file since I clearly know what direction this is heading in, and there is no way in hell of stopping it.. I know everyone else's sich's are much more developed, and I truly have no right to b@tch considering others situations are significantly worse, but this is just mental torture sometimes with every new step into the unknown. I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt. I'm trying so hard to put my faith in God and keep praying for a miracle. But I know I'm going to feel like a fool when buy out/D day comes. 10 months of hell, silence and psych abuse. I don't know if I can go any further? I have no plans, no L consultation (I just can't do it but might have to.), little support, and no backup place to live.

Every time I reconnect to faith, I raise my hope, and my expectations falsly go up with it. When I come back to reality, detach and pull away hard, I just want to end the M, file, get my cut of the home, and my 50/50 custody. Even if it takes me till next year. I would almost rather be extremely mean and uncooperative, and have a determined outcome, than remain hopeful, delude myself, and put on a front. I just don't want to go through with this.
My emotional hijack and control are getting shorter in time spans though, then I come back to logical after a few hours. Still keeping composure for the most part. Just need to vent.

I feel you brother. This is one of the hardest things anyone can go through. If you ask God to make you strong how does he do it ? Is it by instantly making you strong or by giving you situations that can make you strong?

Each time you get hurt and deal with it inside a small bit better each time , this is making you strong. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy . Dig in hard and keep chipping away , you can do it

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

I'm trying so hard to put my faith in God and keep praying for a miracle. But I know I'm going to feel like a fool when buy out/D day comes.

IHC, I feel for you man. I go through similar cycles when I see and perceive things my W is doing or planning. Here are some verses to keep you strong:

"All you have to do is call upon God. Believe in his ability to answer your prayers, and remove any doubt from your heart." Mark 11:23

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." James 1:2-4

"The pain that you've been feeling can't compare to the joy that is coming." Romans 8:18

IHC, I want you to know you are not alone in your suffering. Like you, this period of my life has been the worst time for me.

IHC, be honest, you've never dropped rope entirely, have you?

Hi Ihclacs, the last couple days sound horrible, having many indications she�s pressing forward legally. Sorry, mate.

Re: What AnotherStander said just before you shifted to the new thread, that was my read as well. Your challenges at her plus dismissal seem at odds with the DB approach of validation.

An example from my weekend�my partner was reading a book by the campfire, had been for awhile. I went to our tent and turned in. She fumed for 4hrs. �What upset you about my going to sleep?� �I felt you didn�t want to spend any time with me!� �Wow, that must have hurt.� �Yeah, it did!� �Because you love me.� �Yes, and I wanted to spend precious quality time together.� I never apologized for this. I see her more at fault for fuming. Validation doesn�t imply agreement. I did also reassure her I wanted to spend time together and (wrong) told her she should�ve woken me and told me what was wrong (better: If you feel upset about something, it�s okay to wake me to talk about it.)

You don�t have to validate. I get you feel her actions aren�t in line with God�s will, and maybe for you telling her what your studied beliefs of God�s will say about what she�s doing is more important than brownie points.

CW,

I think for now it might be better for you to stick to your own thread until you better understand DB principles. You might want to re-read the validation thread a few more times. Also, I would recommend you getting into IC if you are not already to work on your issues.

IHC,

Let's start over. You are back at square one. You are so tied up with what your W is doing, you aren't working on your healing. Trust me/us who have been here a while, your W can sense when you have sincerely dropped the rope and started moving forward with your life. You are too preoccupied with everything she is doing.

Looking at her mirrors and what's on her bed, the time she left and returned, what's in her hands when she returns. You are also, stocking her, knowing that she was in the driveway for 20 mins playing on her phone. That's too much brother. I've been there, and it's exhausting. You can't control her or her choices and whatever outcomes are coming her way, but you can control yourself in a way to help possibly reshape some of her choices and outcomes bringing her back (possibly).

And GOD usually gives us what we ask for, not what we want. IMO. If you asked GOD to stop the pain. And the source of your pain is your W. Then maybe the way to reduce that pain is to start and distance the source. He also gives us signs and clues and if you are so wrapped up in what she is doing, you are most likely missing those signs.

It's time to start building your railroad track in your direction and take your train off of your W's tracks.

I see it this way, stop working so hard to prevent a boat with thousands of holes already in from sinking, instead, just start working on building a new one. You need to let go, mourn and grieve that old M, then accept it won't be coming back.

Onward and upward

LH19, I accept it's not perfect validation. There were a couple leading statements and one SHOULD statement. Practice makes perfect and my situation seems to be improving! Thanks for your advice and opinions.

Steve85 I did drop the rope a couple of months ago, but the thing is what we focus on is what we become. When I focus on the natural and just what the world is, it builds up bitterness in me but it keeps me detached. Behavioral stuff, DB, Psychology, Legal, Self Help, IC, Rolo Tomassi, Robert Glover NMMNG, Attraction, Etc. When I focus on the spiritual. It is what keeps my mind off focus on the natural from my mind going absolutely nuts because of the compulsive thinking of all of human wisdom and nature applicable to attraction, social interaction, communication skills, etc. The spiritual side provides hope, and some detachment in a way. But when you take marriage from an unbreakable covenant with some biblical excusion for bad choices, and then you take the natural, where you just look out for yourself and leave them in the dust. It messes with your head and your heart a little.

We all think we drop the rope, and in a way we do once we get to a certain point. Until we get to the next phase of seperation. Then it starts over again until we recover and readjust, at least that is the way it is for me. I go nuts with every closer move but then I recover and I readjust. I struggle with it every day.

Limbic side is like :"F$CK HER DROP HER LIKE A BAD HABIT. You don't need this person or this limbo stress in your life anymore. The other side wants to hold my covenant. Not just for her. Oh mediator/attorney has her confirmed as of yesyerday for her. She is also trying to back charge me on some work done around the house, and other debts she pursued by her own choice, and wants for reimbursement. She doesn't know that I know yet, and hasn't said anything. I put up a FB post of me and S1 at an indoor park today, and she immediately commented on it, once again undermining my patenting skills. She commented "Why do I picture S1 rolling down falling down the obstacle he climbed up" He climbed up and down it all by himself and we had a great time. Her mind has all these irritional fears of S1 getting obducted too.

These actions really bring out the hatred in me for her. I think its time for me to stop screwing around legally. I need to L up and protect myself. I have had 10 months to prepare for this and have done nothing. (Again delusional on my part.) When I could have potentialy nailed her a$$ to the wall. Im so angry right now. I just want this either to stop, and make amends, or I want to screw her hard since she is getting colder by her actions, but not interactions, by the day. I have been feeling ike taking the initiative to legally slam dunk her for 7 months. But just can't because I still love her. Then I ask myself? I must be absolutely insane and in complete denial of what is. Based on her 10 months of crazy actions. The anger, the wanting to gain the upper hand, and the desire to wanting to make peace and stop this train wreck is tearing me apart.

The truth is I cannot love her for what she is doing. So why do I keep wanting to just keep suffering in 10 months of status quo? Its not good for me, she is no longer good for me. Maybe she never was? Maybe she was never the person I thought she was? Sometimes I really want to get spiteful ( not physically) and lash out legally. I wish God would send me a sign or a dream or something on what to do? Sever the M and protect myself? Or start moving, protecting, and covering my a$$. I'm really torn over this and feel like a fool for even praying that she comes around. I know I can't control any of this, so why worry about it. Just deal with it as it comes at me, one situation at a time. I dont know if D is imminent (it probably is) but S and Mediating and house arrangement are going to piss me off, turn me cold and tacit, and once I go down that road following her lead on how far she wants to take things, Im going to get bitter and nasty, and I don't want that for myself or her. I really f@$king hate her right now. But eventually I will level out, be polite, and di what I have to do.

Originally Posted by "IHCLACS"

I really f@$king hate her right now.

So sorry. Anger is natural when you're grieving. I definitely bounce between the first 4 of the 5 stages: "1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance."

Every time i feel awful I go and reread the MLC sources. It helps me to realize their perspective is not the same as ours.

My 2c.

Yeah I know. Been cycling it for 9 months. We all have. Its called emotions. Its becomes the norm. I have to be a damn fool for letting 9 months go by and intentionally putting off becoming legally prepared because of this constant and repetitive cycling. No person in a M who would even consider a seperation or divorce should ever be trusted again, and should just be delt with accordingly. People like myself are stupid and deluded for thinking we could ever turn things around once betrayal and trust is broken. Its just easier to cut bait from day one of BD, do the deed and what need a to be done, and move on. Guess I'm back to bitter again.

IH YOUR QUOTE:
We all think we drop the rope, and in a way we do once we get to a certain point. Until we get to the next phase of seperation. Then it starts over again until we recover and readjust, at least that is the way it is for me. I go nuts with every closer move but then I recover and I readjust. I struggle with it every day.

You are not alone here. I feel exactly the same way. Just as I feel like I am ready to deal with my situation, she will make an appointment for the mediator, get an email from the lawyer or whatever else. Then I become completely depressed that she is still moving forward. I am right there with you brother. A lot of what you say I feel exactly the same. With the anger and frustration but I still love her and love my family. It just f-in [censored] that it takes 2 to get married but one to d. I just got an email yesterday about the paperwork is almost done they just need a few more details. When I got that email my stomach dropped. It shouldn�t because I knew it was coming. Yet when I got it I still felt panicked. I wish I could make it all go away for you. I wish I could make the pain stop for you. You also mentioned about putting it off for so long. I think we all do that with the hopes it really won�t happen. It�s just our denial kicking in. All your emotions brother are exactly what I feel too!! Trust me you are not alone.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

IH YOUR QUOTE:
We all think we drop the rope, and in a way we do once we get to a certain point. Until we get to the next phase of seperation. Then it starts over again until we recover and readjust, at least that is the way it is for me. I go nuts with every closer move but then I recover and I readjust. I struggle with it every day.

You are not alone here. I feel exactly the same way. Just as I feel like I am ready to deal with my situation, she will make an appointment for the mediator, get an email from the lawyer or whatever else. Then I become completely depressed that she is still moving forward. I am right there with you brother. A lot of what you say I feel exactly the same. With the anger and frustration but I still love her and love my family. It just f-in [censored] that it takes 2 to get married but one to d. I just got an email yesterday about the paperwork is almost done they just need a few more details. When I got that email my stomach dropped. It shouldn�t because I knew it was coming. Yet when I got it I still felt panicked. I wish I could make it all go away for you. I wish I could make the pain stop for you. You also mentioned about putting it off for so long. I think we all do that with the hopes it really won�t happen. It�s just our denial kicking in. All your emotions brother are exactly what I feel too!! Trust me you are not alone.

Thanks Wolfie. Exactly what you describe is about panicking and your stomach dropping out when you face the inevitable, but what you knew all along from your logic is the part I can't figure out? Like of course most of us knew they would go through with it months in advanced, and they would follow through. Why wouldn't they not announce and declare it and not? (Some dont. Some are just sneaky about it.) That's what I beat myself up over. I saw all the chess moves months and months in advance, but refused to follow through with them because my emotions weren't consistent. One week or two I would be detached. Then the next week I would delude myself into having my own deluded false hope, even though I know it wasnt my reality based off her responses. That's not living in reality and living on your own deluded false hope. What kind of idiot does that?
But yeah. The temporary panic that sets in sets off unnerving anxiety, even though we were expecting it. Then we recover. There's something wrong with most of us here dealing with facts and logic deluded by emotions and memories of a person that no longer exists. But I will tell you. I would rather deal with the adrenaline of being shot at doing a run and gun, then receive these death by a thousand paper cuts by my own deluded reality of false hope. The anger that temporarily comes with it shoot me up with adrenaline that wants part retribution and part peace because of who they are, or were I should say.

Everyone thanks for listening, adding in, and 2x4 ing when needed. I think its time to get ready to start making some calculating moves. Watching War Games now. ;-)

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Steve85 I did drop the rope a couple of months ago, but the thing is what we focus on is what we become. When I focus on the natural and just what the world is, it builds up bitterness in me but it keeps me detached. Behavioral stuff, DB, Psychology, Legal, Self Help, IC, Rolo Tomassi, Robert Glover NMMNG, Attraction, Etc. When I focus on the spiritual. It is what keeps my mind off focus on the natural from my mind going absolutely nuts because of the compulsive thinking of all of human wisdom and nature applicable to attraction, social interaction, communication skills, etc. The spiritual side provides hope, and some detachment in a way. But when you take marriage from an unbreakable covenant with some biblical excusion for bad choices, and then you take the natural, where you just look out for yourself and leave them in the dust. It messes with your head and your heart a little.

We all think we drop the rope, and in a way we do once we get to a certain point. Until we get to the next phase of seperation. Then it starts over again until we recover and readjust, at least that is the way it is for me. I go nuts with every closer move but then I recover and I readjust. I struggle with it every day.

Limbic side is like :"F$CK HER DROP HER LIKE A BAD HABIT. You don't need this person or this limbo stress in your life anymore. The other side wants to hold my covenant. Not just for her. Oh mediator/attorney has her confirmed as of yesyerday for her. She is also trying to back charge me on some work done around the house, and other debts she pursued by her own choice, and wants for reimbursement. She doesn't know that I know yet, and hasn't said anything. I put up a FB post of me and S1 at an indoor park today, and she immediately commented on it, once again undermining my patenting skills. She commented "Why do I picture S1 rolling down falling down the obstacle he climbed up" He climbed up and down it all by himself and we had a great time. Her mind has all these irritional fears of S1 getting obducted too.

These actions really bring out the hatred in me for her. I think its time for me to stop screwing around legally. I need to L up and protect myself. I have had 10 months to prepare for this and have done nothing. (Again delusional on my part.) When I could have potentialy nailed her a$$ to the wall. Im so angry right now. I just want this either to stop, and make amends, or I want to screw her hard since she is getting colder by her actions, but not interactions, by the day. I have been feeling ike taking the initiative to legally slam dunk her for 7 months. But just can't because I still love her. Then I ask myself? I must be absolutely insane and in complete denial of what is. Based on her 10 months of crazy actions. The anger, the wanting to gain the upper hand, and the desire to wanting to make peace and stop this train wreck is tearing me apart.

This was a long way of saying.......no.

You do not drop the rope and then immediately pick it back up. That is letting go, then grabbing it, then letting go, then grabbing it again. NOT DROPPING IT.

When you drop it, you let it go and walk away. This doesn't mean you go file for divorce. I know you've struggled with the in-between state: not being all in trying to save the marriage, but not going and filing for D or moving the D forward. THERE is an in-between state, and it is calle detachment. The LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that do not truly understand what loving detachment is. You need to focus on loving detachment...........being present, pleased, upbeat, content. Around her and not around her. IHC, you've struggled because you have throttled between to extremes. And you will continue to struggle until you find the happy medium.

Drop the rope. Walk away. Let the process work.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Steve85 I did drop the rope a couple of months ago, but the thing is what we focus on is what we become. When I focus on the natural and just what the world is, it builds up bitterness in me but it keeps me detached. Behavioral stuff, DB, Psychology, Legal, Self Help, IC, Rolo Tomassi, Robert Glover NMMNG, Attraction, Etc. When I focus on the spiritual. It is what keeps my mind off focus on the natural from my mind going absolutely nuts because of the compulsive thinking of all of human wisdom and nature applicable to attraction, social interaction, communication skills, etc. The spiritual side provides hope, and some detachment in a way. But when you take marriage from an unbreakable covenant with some biblical excusion for bad choices, and then you take the natural, where you just look out for yourself and leave them in the dust. It messes with your head and your heart a little.

We all think we drop the rope, and in a way we do once we get to a certain point. Until we get to the next phase of seperation. Then it starts over again until we recover and readjust, at least that is the way it is for me. I go nuts with every closer move but then I recover and I readjust. I struggle with it every day.

Limbic side is like :"F$CK HER DROP HER LIKE A BAD HABIT. You don't need this person or this limbo stress in your life anymore. The other side wants to hold my covenant. Not just for her. Oh mediator/attorney has her confirmed as of yesyerday for her. She is also trying to back charge me on some work done around the house, and other debts she pursued by her own choice, and wants for reimbursement. She doesn't know that I know yet, and hasn't said anything. I put up a FB post of me and S1 at an indoor park today, and she immediately commented on it, once again undermining my patenting skills. She commented "Why do I picture S1 rolling down falling down the obstacle he climbed up" He climbed up and down it all by himself and we had a great time. Her mind has all these irritional fears of S1 getting obducted too.

These actions really bring out the hatred in me for her. I think its time for me to stop screwing around legally. I need to L up and protect myself. I have had 10 months to prepare for this and have done nothing. (Again delusional on my part.) When I could have potentialy nailed her a$$ to the wall. Im so angry right now. I just want this either to stop, and make amends, or I want to screw her hard since she is getting colder by her actions, but not interactions, by the day. I have been feeling ike taking the initiative to legally slam dunk her for 7 months. But just can't because I still love her. Then I ask myself? I must be absolutely insane and in complete denial of what is. Based on her 10 months of crazy actions. The anger, the wanting to gain the upper hand, and the desire to wanting to make peace and stop this train wreck is tearing me apart.

This was a long way of saying.......no.

You do not drop the rope and then immediately pick it back up. That is letting go, then grabbing it, then letting go, then grabbing it again. NOT DROPPING IT.

When you drop it, you let it go and walk away. This doesn't mean you go file for divorce. I know you've struggled with the in-between state: not being all in trying to save the marriage, but not going and filing for D or moving the D forward. THERE is an in-between state, and it is calle detachment. The LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that do not truly understand what loving detachment is. You need to focus on loving detachment...........being present, pleased, upbeat, content. Around her and not around her. IHC, you've struggled because you have throttled between to extremes. And you will continue to struggle until you find the happy medium.

Drop the rope. Walk away. Let the process work.

Yeah I have struggled Steve85. I haven't found that balance and probably never will no matter how hard I try. I guess I'm not that in control of my emotions. Maybe better on the outside lately, but not the inside. Ill have sliver of moments where I'm experiencing contentment by focusing on Jesus as of lately. Or singinging or dancing or playing with S1. It just depends on my thoughts and experiences of the moment. I focus on everything I have learned here and elsewhere, I go cynical. I focus on the Lord, and I make him my happiness not my circumstances. I'm clearly not a person of experiencing emotional control. Executing it. im getting better at it. But internally I'm tired of being abandoned. Im tired of always losing. I'm tired of being human and making mistakes and never being forgiven for it. I'm tired of women leaving me. I'm tired of being loved only for a time, just to be discarded because I didn't meet someone else's needs. Funny? Out of 5 of my relationships, I have never been the dumper. On one hand you could say I never give up. On the other you could say I have NGS. Clearly relationship of romantic nature are about control, power, and who has it. My experience has been, I started with it, and then I lost it. WHO THE F@$! wants to live like that for 20 years and endure loss after loss after loss? Its just not worth it. They all go from praiseworthy to resentment. Just to have people tell me I have to do XYandZ to become successful at ABC. We are all strong and weak at times. Just human nature. Nobody can be a constant.
Maybe this is just my reality but? Who isn't secure and insecure in themselves from time to time? That's just life. It has its ups and downs like its supposed to. Just [censored] on the down until we are back on the up again. I just wish I could sleep forever because reality right now really [censored]. Its like Groundhog's Day meets A Nightmare On Elm St. You endure it for so long that you go numb and just get used to it until one day you unconsciously break out of it.

IHC, maybe you've always looked for the wrong thing.

Between my exgf and my wife I've learned something that I wish I could go back and apply. And that is that for so long I was hung up on looking for someone I was crazy about. When in reality I should have been looking for someone that was crazy about me!! Sure they may not have been the most gorgeous woman ever, but I now in my more experienced age realize that looks are fleeting. I should have gone for one of the girls that would have given a kidney to be with me.

There is one girl in particular I often think about. She spent 7 years trying to win me over. She didn't give up until I got married. I think I would have been happy with her. I think she would have bent over backwards to make sure I was happy. But I was putting priority on the wrong things.

Maybe you've always been the dumpee because your priority was on the worst things too.

Steve. All my relationships started out that way where they were crazy about me, and would do anything to be with me. Well may be except for 1 of them that lasted 6 months. All women are like chameleons in my opinion. Its their nature to impress when they find someone they like. They will do and act out anything for you in the first year or two. But then Once the honeymoon phase is over and people start seeing each others character flaws, that is where the power starts to slowly transfer. Sometimes so slow that you can't see it, and write it off as just typical mishaps that are normal. I've always accepted there's. I guess they just cannot tolerate mine. I thought my W could. Guess not. I guess my character flaws are too unbearable for most for the long term. I'm good enough to attract, but not good enough to keep. I guess I need to work on that, and in my next R if I ever have one. Keep my focus solely on me, keep my mouth shut, and evaluatecthem and the R silently, and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Steve. All my relationships started out that way where they were crazy about me, and would do anything to be with me. Well may be except for 1 of them that lasted 6 months. All people are like chameleons in my opinion. Its their nature to impress when they find someone they like. They will do and act out anything for you in the first year or two. But then Once the honeymoon phase is over and people start seeing each others character flaws, that is where the power starts to slowly transfer. Sometimes so slow that you can't see it, and write it off as just typical mishaps that are normal. I've always accepted there's. I guess they just cannot tolerate mine. I thought my W could. Guess not. I guess my character flaws are too unbearable for most for the long term. I'm good enough to attract, but not good enough to keep. I guess I need to work on that, and in my next R if I ever have one. Keep my focus solely on me, keep my mouth shut, and evaluatecthem and the R silently, and not the other way around.

Fixed it for you.

W is at the beginning phase of taking quasi legal action with mediator, house refi, is attempting to back charge me through house sale deduction for house projects and $$$ for yard clean up and landscaping that I had no say in. All these things I was going to eventually do but she took it upon herself. All actions have been verbally stated to me with her not presenting documentation yet to me on her part. Plus like Unichen's W she has this parental undermining capability, and perceives me as "scary and aggressive" and all these other irrational emotional fears for whatever reason. (She constantly tells me she's scared that our son will be abducted out in public one day.) As I mentioned in one of my previous posts she even went as far to undermine me on a Facebook post that I had a picture of myself and my son with in a ball pit park. Maybe I just took it that way and took it personally so I didn't respond to it.

She now wants me out by August and she's working to get it. Anything I disagree with her on,
(According to her counciling notes that I'm not supposed to know about.) She's going to take any disagreements to a mediator, but she hasn't presented any documentation towards me. She is just verbally stating her actions moving forward. She also holds all the files in her room. So I have to eventually ask for them, without being intrusive. I haven't even made a lawyer consultation appointment yet I keep putting it off because Im hesitant to do it. Like everyone recommends here I want her to make all the moves and do all the work torwards S. But she's attempting to back charge me too for her choices and deduct it from house sale price when house does sell, as well as me being on her insurance plan despite having my own. That part I can understand. She can't list the house on the market because there's crap all over the place, and walls need to be painted, steps patched, and all this other crap for curb appeal. rather than waiting or asking for me to take the initiative she just started spending money to do landscaping and project materials that her brothers purchased that I did not authorize to have work done around this house. She has also borrowed $5,000 from her parents to move forward. Since February I've refused to do any of these things around here other than the bare necessity because she wanted to sell, fired me as her H, now wants refi to buy me out and get me out, and keep the house until next year until she can sell it. The best part is she doesn't have any intention or means of paying me until the house sells. So I don't have any intention of moving. I think what she's trying to do is get me off the mortgage but keep me on the land deed, and pull 7 years worth of equity to buy me out. I have to look at the documents again. She's gone all week on vacation with S1.

Uni I am at the beginning phase of W taking legal action with mediator, house refi, attempted back charge for house projects and $ yard clean up that I had no say in. All have been verbally stated to me with her not presenting documentation yet to me on her part. Plus like your W she has this parental undermining, and perceives me as "scary and aggressive" and all these other irrational emotional fears for whatever reason. (She constantly tells me she's scared that our son will be abducted out in public one day.)

She now wants me out by August and she's working to get it. Anything I disagree with her on,
(According to her counciling notes that I'm not supposed to know about.) She has already spoken a mediator as of recently, but she hasn't presented any documentation towards me, or announced when she consulted with them as of this Weds. She just verbally stated what She was putting into action. I haven't made any mention of even though I think she knows that I know based on my in-laws babysitting when I came home from work. She knows I'm observant. She also holds all the files in her room. I haven't even made a lawyer consultation appointment yet I keep putting it off because Im hesitant to do it. Like everyone recommends here I want her to make all the moves and do all the work torwards S. But she's attempting to back charge me too for her choices and deduct it from house sale price when house does sell, as well as me being on her insurance plan despite having my own. That part I can understand. She can't list the house on the market because there's crap all over the place, and walls need to be painted, steps patched, and all this other crap for curb appeal. Rather than waiting or asking for me to take the initiative she just started spending money to do landscaping and project materials that her brothers purchased that I did not authorize to have work done around this house. Since February I've refused to do any of these things other than the bare necessity because she wanted to sell, fired me as her H, now wants refi to buy me out and get me out, and keep the house until next year until she can sell it.

I know everyone here is going to tell me to stop focusing on her and stop snooping, but she barely communicates any of this, and if she does its in verbal passing, and not an actual sit down of lets review the numbers and options. What's my first step in the process and all this consult with a mediator? Or Divorce Lawyer to review all CS, Marital Property, Asset division and the like? Which one should I consult with given the current and complicated situation?

There are so many lines in the sand I can tolerate being crossed. I know the people here have dealt with much more drama than this especially with WW and WH. I just want to be prepared to respond to what she may or may not present since the communication is extremely poor. We don't even go over bills. We did monthly up until I stopped a few months ago. I just deposit and estimated amount of my half weekly into joint account and keep track of occasionally. I was on top of it like a hawk up until the last 3 months.

I guess what I'm looking for from everyone on the board here is how to proceed forward with the process. Also it's not that I'm looking for emotional support or techniques in DB. I know I have to ultimately decide what's right for myself, and how to protect myself and my assets. I understand that the walkaway person's views are they just want to separate and they are taking the necessary steps financially, emotionally, logistically, to proceed forward and doing such. Whether are they 100% they want divorce or just 80%.

From my own personal perspective. I'm having a really hard time understanding why anyone here including myself, would want to ever stand for their marriage once enough trust have been violated. Power plays, personal agendas, communication breakdowns, Child Support and Marital Related assets and logistics. All the division and secrecy of everything. There is a lot of covert F@$! You's going around on both sides even though everything is polite, calm, and friendly on the surface for what little we do talk. There's no respect for the other person's opinion or direction. I understand the other person wants out and wants to do it as amicably as possible. But the person on the receiving end always feels betrayed. My question is why would anyone on here want to ride this out and stand for their marriage in hopes of recon? I feel like a fool. We both don't want to get vindictive. But I feel like a fool for wanting to R given all the actions taken against the marriage. It would just be easier to do the deed get everything in order and get through it as painlessly as possible and just move on with my life from an emotional and logical stand point. Why in the world would you want to trust, reconcile, or even consider someone who is bent on dividing? Life is too short to entertain that kind of bull$hit! The love is gone. The M isn't coming back, and neither is the trust without active commitment to improve things from both parties. The only way I'm ever going to really get focused on my own life is by being apart and independent from all this destruction.

I need someone here to either talk me into moving forward with the divorce or talk me out of it for reasons that they have experienced. Because I find all the actions taken so petty, and so undermining in trust that I don't want to continue anymore, but can't bring myself to do it. I feel like I'm violating my own principles for allowing it to even get this far in the first place and holding out, "because we love who they used to be, but are no more." I know most of you like Steve85 here advocate a middle ground in thinking and action. I need someone here to tell me the pros and cons again for and against divorce. I just want to cut her loose let her free be done with it and move on. For me to stay in the middle ground and still work amicably and work things out such as the logistics, be physically seperated and not be divorced, makes me feel like a fool because so much trust has been breached. Why would any self respecting person put up with that, even if both people changed over time?

I am in the same situation. Divorce busting for a year now but wife was determined to destroy marriage, took as much as she could - 60% of assets which I had worked long hours to accumulate for our family's security and $73,000 pa in child support on going. When the other person has convinced themselves that they are a victim, and are acting from a position of hostility, you will put your future in jeopardy by trying to R. I made the mistake of being accomodating and understanding but having read these forums it appears that very few are successful at divorce busting - ultimately I lost out by not putting my interests first.

Originally Posted by LBH2018

I am in the same situation. Divorce busting for a year now but wife was determined to destroy marriage, took as much as she could - 60% of assets which I had worked long hours to accumulate for our family's security and $73,000 pa in child support on going. When the other person has convinced themselves that they are a victim, and are acting from a position of hostility, you will put your future in jeopardy by trying to R. I made the mistake of being accomodating and understanding but having read these forums it appears that very few are successful at divorce busting - ultimately I lost out by not putting my interests first.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how would have rated your level of DBing?

Also, this is your first post?? I'm not sure you're helping IHC here. Furthermore, no one has ever said not to protect your own self interests in DBing. We tell LBSs all three time to lawyer up. My guess is that your DBing efforts were half hearted attempts to manipulate your WAW and she say right through it.

So start your own thread and tell us your story.

People choose to stand for their marriages for lots of reasons:
* They take they vows seriously and feel a moral/spiritual obligation to uphold them for as long as possible
* They recognize that people are imperfect, and that in any relationship that lasts decades, your partner is going to do things that hurt and disappoint you
* They value the past and the shared history
* They think it's best for kids to live in a home with both of their parents at the same time
* They recognize that they contributed to the demise of their marriage, and they want to see how much the marriage can improve through their own efforts

Now, standing for your marriage does not mean you can't consult with a lawyer to understand your rights and how things are likely to play out if your spouse pursues separation or divorce. You seeing a lawyer is not the same thing as doing the work of the divorce!

It would be good for you to get a legal perspective on your situation.

As far as the house goes, it's hard to tell without knowing the specifics. You have shared before that many (all?) of these projects were ones you had committed to doing during your marriage but had not yet done. Your wife's actions come across as strong and not petty--rather than keep nagging you to do the things you said you were going to do and didn't do, she took matters into her own hands and arranged for others to do them. You had fair warning that this work was going to be done by others, and you didn't step in and do the work (thus saving the costs). I'm not sure what a lawyer would say--which is why you need to see one--but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the cost of getting that work done would be taken into consideration when dealing with the value of the house.

I know you see stopping anything but basic housework as being part of DBing, but it comes across as very petty.

I disagree. I read that the vast majority of people here are successful, as long as you follow the plan. MWD wouldn�t be as successful as she is if it didn�t work the majority of the time.

Originally Posted by LBH2018

I am in the same situation. Divorce busting for a year now but wife was determined to destroy marriage, took as much as she could - 60% of assets which I had worked long hours to accumulate for our family's security and $73,000 pa in child support on going. When the other person has convinced themselves that they are a victim, and are acting from a position of hostility, you will put your future in jeopardy by trying to R. I made the mistake of being accomodating and understanding but having read these forums it appears that very few are successful at divorce busting - ultimately I lost out by not putting my interests first.

Went out last night. Saw a live cover band. Was moving, having a good time and throwing darts. Today was a gorgeous day. I couldn't get off the couch between movies and YouTube and here. Worst part about it is I know I'm choosing it when I could be doing a million other things to better myself and my situation. Depression is really bad today. Being alone in the house still knowing its going to be all gone soon. The only thing that's going to save me tonight is pictures of my son, and Rock and Roll. Watching LaBamba.

Guys I'm fighting a really bad depression the last two days. Yesterday mind went into overload, so I tried to distract it with movies and such which helped. I don't want to do anything but sleep, couldn't sleep, only slept two hours, barely ate yesterday. Late last night I fell on the floor, and went into a crying fit like I hadn't had in months. Usually that's a good release for me, and I'm good. But this time was different. After I was listening to myself sobbing, I started hysterically laughing afterwards, and didn't feel like myself, like something evil just took over me. Just felt numb the rest of the night until 1am and got up at 330am. I'm dropping all IC due to dropping W's mental health coverage, I have a high deductible on mine for mental health coverage, so that's a no go. I don't intend to have any IC from here on out. Its not going to help much and not going to change my circumstance so what is the point? Eating helps bring me back to somewhat normalcy. Does anyone know of any natural anti depressants I can get OTC at vitamin store or something?. Maybe working out will help me. I can't carry on like this.

Does your health insurance cover anti-depressants? On my plan, the generics are cheap enough you can pay for a month�s supply with loose change, which really surprised me.

I�m sorry things are so rough right now.

IHC,

I am sorry that you are going through such hard times. You are not alone. Have you looked into DivorceCare? It is a Christian divorce support group that is hosted in thousands of churches through the country. On the website you can find churches local to you that are hosting sessions right now. Don't worry about starting in the middle or end of a session. Very few people start at the beginning. This might help you to make friends to people who are going through a similar experience and it is free. Cheap group counseling with the chance of making new friends too.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Guys I'm fighting a really bad depression the last two days. Yesterday mind went into overload, so I tried to distract it with movies and such which helped. I don't want to do anything but sleep, couldn't sleep, only slept two hours, barely ate yesterday. Late last night I fell on the floor, and went into a crying fit like I hadn't had in months. Usually that's a good release for me, and I'm good. But this time was different. After I was listening to myself sobbing, I started hysterically laughing afterwards, and didn't feel like myself, like something evil just took over me. Just felt numb the rest of the night until 1am and got up at 330am. I'm dropping all IC due to dropping W's mental health coverage, I have a high deductible on mine for mental health coverage, so that's a no go. I don't intend to have any IC from here on out. Its not going to help much and not going to change my circumstance so what is the point? Eating helps bring me back to somewhat normalcy. Does anyone know of any natural anti depressants I can get OTC at vitamin store or something?. Maybe working out will help me. I can't carry on like this.

IH - I'm so sorry you are feeling like this. I haven't caught up on your sit recently - what happened?

St-Johns Wort is great for mood regulation - at least it works for me. Takes about 1-2 weeks to kick in. I also take vitamin B supplements and Omega oil. A lot of people dont believe it helps but I feel much better since starting this daily regimen.

I would highly recommend you find another way to go to IC. Yes you need it. Talk to your former IC, tell him or her your financial sit and see if they can recommend someone who does half sessions, phone sessions, even texting sessions.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Guys I'm fighting a really bad depression the last two days. Yesterday mind went into overload, so I tried to distract it with movies and such which helped. I don't want to do anything but sleep, couldn't sleep, only slept two hours, barely ate yesterday. Late last night I fell on the floor, and went into a crying fit like I hadn't had in months. Usually that's a good release for me, and I'm good. But this time was different. After I was listening to myself sobbing, I started hysterically laughing afterwards, and didn't feel like myself, like something evil just took over me. Just felt numb the rest of the night until 1am and got up at 330am. I'm dropping all IC due to dropping W's mental health coverage, I have a high deductible on mine for mental health coverage, so that's a no go. I don't intend to have any IC from here on out. Its not going to help much and not going to change my circumstance so what is the point? Eating helps bring me back to somewhat normalcy. Does anyone know of any natural anti depressants I can get OTC at vitamin store or something?. Maybe working out will help me. I can't carry on like this.

So what I am hearing is: I am depressed beyond anything I've ever experienced, but I am not going to do IC.

IHC, step back. Think about if you were reading someone else's sitch and you read that. What would you think? What would you tell them?

I hear from posters that struggle all the time "I can't afford IC." When in reality you can't afford to NOT be in IC. Where there is a will, there is a way. Find a way. Depression is nothing to scoff at. Go to your doctor at a minimum and tell him you are struggling with depression and get on an anti-depressant. Depression is nothing to fool around with. If you can't control your emotions, eventually you won't be able to control other things either, like actions.

IH I hear how much you are struggling. I have had many days like that too. You need to get on antidepressants. They have really helped me out. They don�t work right away, it takes about a week or 2 but once they kick in you will feel different. Like Steve said, those emotions can become actions and we don�t want that.

I want you to think about something. If someone asked you 5 years ago where would you be today, would you think it would be this? Probably not!! I know this is hard because I feel your exact pain of hopelessness and feeling alone. But who�s to say 5 years from now you will be in the most amazing relationship with another woman. And you are looking back saying, �man I can�t believe I was so upset over my ex when I have this new amazing woman!!� The point is this doesn�t have to mean the end of love and good times. They can happen again. When you don�t feel like moving get up and go for a walk, when you don�t feel like eating, go out and eat your favorite food. And when you are feeling really down call someone or come on here to vent. We get it, we understand!!! Hugs

Originally Posted by Yail

Originally Posted by RyanHun

An LBS could not believe in God or religion at all but I think they still need to have some sort of trust that it is out of their hands and they will come out of it on the other side just fine.

Agreed. I happen to not be religious at all. But there is something about quiet faith in the unknown that is needed. Maybe it's our faith in ourselves, or humanity, or biology. I know that I've had a couple of mini panic attacks over the past few weeks. During them I just gently remind myself, "You will not die from a panic attack. It will pass. Breathe. This will pass. Look around you - you are safe. You are safe". I have to remind my body that this is a fleeting moment and that the next one will improve. I try to look at myself objectively - as an animal on Earth. For me, it helps.

The other thing that helps is that I remind myself every success story starts with adversity. This insane pain we are in right now is what we need to get through in order to have our success story. Otherwise, we're just floating through life without attachment. I'm so very curious to see what my success story consists of.

Borrowed from Steve's thread, courtesy of Yail.

I feel down often, like you often. But the trick, the solution, is to pull myself put of the quagmire. Nobody else is going to do it for me.

Remember - This feeling will pass. It is a feeling at this one singular moment, nothing more. Not a permanent state, your life will not be this way forever. It is only what is happening at this exact moment.

You have a choice, you can choose to wallow in it, let the pain consume you. Or you can choose to accept the pain for what it is, Breathe, take a minute for yourself to calm down, and then compose yourself.

If I can do IC on minimum wage with no mental health plan, you can go to IC too.

Listen to Steve. Go to IC. Go to a doctor and get prescription antidepressants if you need them.

Stay strong IH

(((IHCLACS))). So sorry you are going through such a rough patch. Have others have said... you are not alone. Get yourself on an antidepressant with an anti anxiety component. I did for awhile and it did help me. I agree that an IC would be what is most recommended. If you can�t do that, do as much reading as you can. Find a support group. Connect with safe friends who you can talk to about this stuff (in moderation though as you don�t want to stress your friendships too much).

Here�s the thing... you don�t NEED your wife... you WANT her. That is not the same thing. What would you do if she had passed away? You would grieve for a period of time and then you would pick yourself up off the ground and get on with building yourself a new life. You would do this because you would have no choice. This sitch is no different only your W isn�t dead which is a blessing, isn�t it? You are grieving right now and trying to recover from a huge hit to the self esteem. I know EXACTLY what that feels like and it is a pain I would not want to wish on anyone. I had days that were soooo hard to get through. But I got through them and so will you. This time last year I was married and oblivious to my H�s affair. Now my STBXH is living with someone else and I found out last week he is engaged to be married. If you had told me that six months ago, it would have devastated me. But now? Meh... it bothered me for a couple hours and then I got on with my day. She is not marrying my H. That man no longer exists.

Time really is the great healer IH. Keep your focus on GAL and 180s. If you do, you will begin to heal in spite of yourself. Just stay the course and have faith that right now everything is as it should be. Accept it. Save yourself. There is a future out there for you. Not the one you planned or counted on but a future nonetheless and like Wolfman said...it could be a fantastic one!! (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by Wolfman

IH I hear how much you are struggling. I have had many days like that too. You need to get on antidepressants. They have really helped me out. They don�t work right away, it takes about a week or 2 but once they kick in you will feel different. Like Steve said, those emotions can become actions and we don�t want that.

^^^This^^^ About 2 months after my XW moved out I suddenly went into deep, dark depression. The timing made no sense, there was no trigger, it just happened. I went to the doc and he put me on Viibryd. Like Wolf said it takes a week or two for them to reach full efficacy. But once they did I felt so much better. Within a month I felt like my old pre-BD self for the first time. I was on them 3 or 4 months and then weaned off with the help of my doc (reduced 20% a week). It doesn't cost much and it doesn't have to be forever. Situational depression like we go through is often due to a chemical shift in your body, and A/D's (especially SSRI's) can correct the imbalance.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I want you to think about something. If someone asked you 5 years ago where would you be today, would you think it would be this? Probably not!! I know this is hard because I feel your exact pain of hopelessness and feeling alone. But who�s to say 5 years from now you will be in the most amazing relationship with another woman. And you are looking back saying, �man I can�t believe I was so upset over my ex when I have this new amazing woman!!�

That's pretty much my situation. It's been years, I have a beautiful girlfriend now and life is great. I will say I don't think back and wonder why I was upset about losing my XW though. I loved her very much. I loved our life together, I loved raising our kids together, planning for the future together. To have all of that ripped away was extremely traumatic. I'm not sure we ever completely get over it just like we never get over the death of a loved one. But we learn to live with it and move on. We learn to enjoy life again, and to be happy again.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

Here�s the thing... you don�t NEED your wife... you WANT her. That is not the same thing. What would you do if she had passed away? You would grieve for a period of time and then you would pick yourself up off the ground and get on with building yourself a new life. You would do this because you would have no choice. This sitch is no different only your W isn�t dead which is a blessing, isn�t it?

So true. I would never wish death on my XW but I've mentioned here before that I can't help but think that death is easier to get over than BD. Your loved one isn't coming back from death, no waiting to see what will happen. It's final. You accept it, you suffer and grieve and learn to deal with it and move on. We go through almost exactly the same process after BD but it's so much harder to let go and move on because we don't know if things are truly over or not.

Quote

She is not marrying my H. That man no longer exists.

That's a great way, and really the only way, to look at it!

Quote

There is a future out there for you. Not the one you planned or counted on but a future nonetheless

Exactly. And we can choose to hate it and be miserable, or we can choose to make the best of it and enjoy the new and different future. But in the end, which path we go down is OUR choice and not our spouse's. They can temporarily knock us down, but if we stay down then that's on us, not them.

Quote

So true. I would never wish death on my XW but I've mentioned here before that I can't help but think that death is easier to get over than BD. Your loved one isn't coming back from death, no waiting to see what will happen. It's final. You accept it, you suffer and grieve and learn to deal with it and move on. We go through almost exactly the same process after BD but it's so much harder to let go and move on because we don't know if things are truly over or not.

I totally think that death would be easier than BD. BD involves missing someone AND knowing that they willingly abandoned you. They chose not to love you any more. While you could see them again, they don't want to see you again. They don't want to love you again.

First band practice tonight went awesome. Starting to feel like myself again. Felt like I had a purpose for the first time in 15 years

Want to hear something crazy? After singing tonight, I had a crazy thought, imagining being on stage. Someone appreciating me again for who I really am, and not what I have to offer, what I can do, or how I can make them feel even if only for a decade of good years. Then it hit me. I was almost playing out a scenario in my head. Saying to W. I hope someone really makes you happy someday, the way you want to be made happy. I think I'm really starting to let go. Isn't it funny how that happens when you come back to your purpose?

IHC - Awesome GAL'ing, it does feel incredible when you get back in touch with things you used to enjoy that have fallen by the wayside.

When you really let go, I imagine you will instead be thinking: I really hope I make ME happy someday, and the attractive pull and charisma this generates pulls another incredibly happy partner into my life, where our happiness multiplies exponentially. And I can look back and think... I'm so glad I had that experience with my W, because it led me to DB, which led me to grow into a person I would have never otherwise have become.

Just wanted to point out the fundamental DB principle that happiness is found within.

And also... that incredibly happy partner... you never know, it could be your W, if she finds that happiness within. Probably unlikely, but you never know.

Hey IHC, great to read you were having fun with GAL. For me it has been the most positive thing about my sitch. When you find something you are passionate about it really helps take the focus off of your W. I made a ton of new friends through my hobby which creates more GAL opportunities! I hope you have more options open up for you and I hope you continue with that positive activity!

Ok I have an issue. Things are really starting to speed up around here in the last 3 days and I need a few pairs of experienced eyes around here with probable pros and cons of choices about housing situation.

W returned Sat from week long vacation from beach with S1. This last was my weekend with S1. I worked 4 hrs OT, came home, showered, and went upstate NY to meet brother at family property to go to country county fair. I advised W I would be returning home late that night with S1 but didn't tell her where I was going with him.� (With my own good reasons because of her deluded protective mom brain and previous unnecessary criticisms and unfounded trust issues.)

S1 and I went to the county fair, had a great time, watched a demolition derby, and stayed for fireworks which got off to a late start around 9:30pm. The venue is about 2.5 hrs from our home. W had S1 out at 9:30pm on July 4th previously. We typically don't keep him up that late unless on special occasion typically we have them in bed by 8:30pm.

Even though W previously gave me the courtesy of inviting me to beach and left� house address for me last week on refrigerator, I politefully declined. She was upset that I didn't call to speak with S1 all week, which is what I expected she would say. (More on this later.) Saturday night after County Fair, S1, brother and I left around 10:00pm. S1 was sleeping. I had to drive brother back to my mother's home which is 40min. east of where I live. We stopped twice for food, coffee, and smokes. Even though its my weekend. W texts me around 12:30am asking if we are both ok and are in our way home.

W: Are you both ok?
H: Yes we are both ok.
W: Almost home?
H: Yes we are ok and close to home.
W: My phone died so I was worried you tried to reach me.

She then calls me, and I let it go to VM. (More on this later too.)
So I'm taking with my brother about all the bull$hit she is changing her mind about as of lately regarding house, job, RV single traveling Mom fantasy, getting me to move out by Aug. etc. My brother and I are talking parental rights, divorce/family court, etc. Since he has 17 years experience as pro se litigant in relation to child custody. Just after I drop brother off at Mom's, and driving home with S1. Just before I round our block and pull into the driveway. I get a text message requesting to change my password on an app called My Life. This is at 1:30 am. It is a phone tracking app to monitor gps location. W wanted me to use it a year or two ago, and I was against it just because I don't trust the government, Google, FB, etc, and don't like the idea of being tracked. Which had nothing to do with her at the time. She uses it to keep tabs on FIL, friends and family since FIL has dementia. I never installed or created an account with this My Life app until this last Feb. to attempt to track W after BD since she was and still is exhibiting shady behavior. I was going to get access to her account back in Feb. But I decided not to and just let it go. Deleted the app from my phone, and just left her account and mine alone. So anyway. I get this password reset text from this My Life app when I am 5 minutes from house. I know it's her attempting to track me. I get home. I notice her car is still warm, which means she just got in a little while before me. So she was out all day Sat. I also know this because she mentioned in text that her phone died. Not that it matters because what she does on her own time to me is none of my business anymore, but we both pick apart behaviors and observe any unusual changes in habits with one another.

So I get in. S1 is sleeping in my arms, and I am trying to get him to his bed with as little disturbance as possible. She decided to greet him, start talking to him and has all the lights on. Now he's awake and crying in crib. I express that it was not helpful of her to be greeting and interacting with him as I'm trying to get him back to sleep without disturbance. She proceeds to criticize me for coming home so late with him. I explain to her that I gave her notice that morning that I would be coming in late, and I answered her text that we were okay. I understand her concern with and for S1, but it is my parenting time, and my decision. Doesn't matter where I am going with him if we are to be physically seperated eventually anyway if it's my weekend. Its my judgement call within reason, and none of her concern where I am. Doesn't matter if I'm coming from a fair, Great Adventure or DisneyLand. She doesn't get the call me and badger me all the time if I'm away with him on a weekend. I explain where I was, that once fireworks were over S1 was asleep in car for the whole ride, that we stopped for coffee twice for safety, etc. So it turned out to be a 3 hr drive with stops, she knew we were safe, and that's all she needed to know. I know 1:30 is late but the car ride and S1 sleeping through it was planned. (She does these kinds of things a lot with checking in on me with him all the time but I never bother her at all because I trust her with him.) Otherwise she is a communication ghost with me unless she needs something from me... She starts going into parenting plans and whatnot and family courts, that I can't just go anywhere with S1 on my own time and not tell her. We currently do not have a parenting plan with restrictions of out-of-state, or defined boundaries and dates. Custodial schedule is still currently informal.) I politely call her out and confront her about attempting to reset my password to my My Life account and attempting to track me. She backpeddled and tried to play it off as if she was just trying to look my account up to see if she could find out where I was, and not attempt to gain unauthorized access to my account. She brings up the courts again and her feelings.(She doesn't know WTH she is talking about when it comes to law.) So I just leave it at "Well maybe we should leave that to the lawyers to decide?" And I go to sleep.

Sun morning after S1 wakes up, and she as well. I ask her once she has her coffee I would like to have another discussion with her. She again goes on about how I should have given her a courtesy about my whereabouts, because she gave me an address last week where she was vacationing. I proceed to explain to her my reasoning for never giving her my whereabouts because she is always bothering me with all these fearful thoughts, checking in on me every time, and having all these undermining parental probable scenearios in her mind when I am out with S1. Otherwise she could care less about me. She then segways back into why I didn't call S1 all week on her vacation. That she felt that something was wrong with me about how she perceived that she couldn't believe that I didn't want to talk with S1. I explained that I did miss him, and was going to call him mid week, but wanted to leave the two of them alone to their one on one time for one, and for two, I was working crazy OT all week, and was getting home past his bedtime at 9pm. Three the reason being, how much am I going to interact with a one year old? In the past I have checked in with him every night so when I was traveling and was away. She also accused me of hanging up on her because "she knows" that when after 5 rings, a phone goes to VM and she calls back, no rings it goes right to VM. That is her "indicator" that I am intentionally hanging up on her...lol.. All phones go straight to VM if you attempt to immediately call back once the initial VM call response picks up. I explain this to her.� I also then explain that I couldn't pick up her call last night because there were cops all over the road, and i didn't want to get caught driving and talking on the phone because of the phone backlight. It is also a safety hazard. She received a text that we were alright. That's enough.

So we get that whole issue of our reasoning and feelings settled and then it goes into the house sale talk. I let her bring up her visitation to the mediator last week. (Since I already know.) She gives me phamplets and stuff, and she mentions to me of my legal and custodial concern to the L and how even the L said to her that for those custodial reasons its not a good idea for me to leave the home for that reason. I do think she has the intention of retaining a mediator because of the house in the division of assets, but she doesn't have the money for a retainer fee at the time which is $4,000.

She then proceeded to explain to me that she currently has a refinancing option on the table for the house. I asked her to send me an e-mail of all proposals and everything document and writing because it's a lot for me to process and just having a conversation about it and I want to make an informed decision. That just discussing it with her doesn't allow me to see the options and hard numbers and whatnot. I said it would be preferable if we sit down and review everything in writing because of our communication issues, and her ever-changing intentions on what she wants to do with the house. She also mentioned in passing lately the tension between us around the house has been very quiet and awkward. I just simply let her know that I was just giving her her space, and the choice of that silence and tension, that she has been the creator of it because of her wanting to separate. That she is the initiator of it all. She didn't seem to mind it being this way other than having some polite and friendly conversation for the last 6 months.

She then proceeded to go out again Sun. at 12pm all dressed up in summer clothes new makeup and perfume, and returns at 7 p.m with fresh lipstick on. not that it really matters who I really care I'm just observing this but she's also been going places with a bathing suit lately. I know her friends and most of their schedules, living habits Etc. So something isn't adding up there not that I should care but just observing. It could be something, that could be nothing she might just be GALing. None of this stuff should even be important to this board form but I figured I'd mention it because I've noticed behavioral changes in some appearance habits and her constantly going out of the house without any notice of where she's going not that I care again.

So this is where the story gets even more interesting coming back around to the refinancing of the house and her wanting me out by August. She is under pressure to have me make a decision by this Friday. That's really not enough time for me to weigh this in and make a clear and concise decision on what I want to do as well as I still have to set up an appointment with the lawyer to find out all my options. She's also apparently putting together a budget schedules for RV traveling in the near future. Where I am going with this is I have concerns of not only being away from S1 but also her lifestyle and how it's going to affect me financially when it comes down to child support and Interstate travel. I'm not one to tell someone how to live and where to take their space but I'm not going to be financing part Nomad fantasies and passions as a single mom, and I'm not comfortable with going on longer than a week of seeing our son. I don't know if she has any intention of quitting her well paying job by the end of this year?

Where this gets really interesting is because my MIL start chemo today and my FIL is going to be put into a VA Hospital. W now wants to work with me in finding suitable child care. My younger BIL. Who is recently divorced wants to move back home here from Pittsburgh to be around family. He's the one that's doing work around my house without my authorization but on hers. The kicker is now my W wants to potentially move him into the basement, and have him paid shared costs in mortgage through rent.

It is still her intention to put the house in the market eventually and buy me out. For all I know that could change in a heartbeat. She has moved most of her stuff into storage already, and I haven't even begun to pack. It's really difficult for me to make any decisions in such a quick timeframe and how I could be losing or benefiting from it, and could really use everyone opinions on how some of these options could affect me. To make all these huge life decisions by this Fri. Is not enough time for me, and a lot of pressure. BIL is now ironically dating friend of SIL who he never could stand. I'm concerned about people coming and going around S1 in house, when and if I leave after potential buy out with W and BIL.

This is email I got from her yesterday.

Here's a breakdown of refinance options that I'd like to decide on by Friday, 7/19/19:

Option 1:
-W will refinance independently and cash out/ buy out H. Price of buyout will be based on value that home is appraised at. This amount will be determined after joint debts are paid from refinance of house. For Example, if $7k is still owed for Joint loan from H consolidated debts, that amount would be deducted from buyout amount.
-H will move out and find his own housing by the end of August
* Possible rental income from BIL

Option 2:
-Refinance together, consolidate debt.
-Monthly expenses would be approximately $1200/each per month, not including utilities. If BIL rents basement, that would be additional money off each of our expenses for mortgage and utilities, approximately $350/each less per month.
-Continue living together until next Spring (Feb.) when house is listed for sale
* Possible rental income from BIL

Option 3:
W Refinances on her own and consolidates debt.
H will remove name from property title with a legal agreement that W will assume joint debts, and provide a cash buyout once the house is sold.
Early advance partial payment of cash buyout to assist H's move out of house
H will move out.

This is getting so discombobulated that I need to act fast. Not that I care what she does. But I need to make an informed decision. I'm so done with this stupidity. On one hand I just don't want to remain miserable in this house with her wild and whacky ideas anymore. On the other, I don't just want to give everything over in a quick deal just to simplify my life again.

Can anyone point out any of the caveats here?

I don�t have experience with the house situation, so I will let others weigh in there.

As for Saturday night, I wouldn�t call your wife�s behavior �badgering.�

You were out exceptionally late for S1, she didn�t know where you were, so she texted you at 12:30 AM.

You said you were close to home, but an hour later you weren�t home so she tried locating you through GPS. Her behavior is all well within normal behavior for a parent.

For the sake of your son, I hope you can move past the tit-for-tat behavior.

Rose I can understand her concern and why. Especially with S1. Is it within reason? Maybe? But this isn't an isolated incident with always having the need to check in on me with him. She said she is going to work on her "mom brain responses"

Talk to your lawyer.

You don't have to agree to any of this and she can't do anything without your consent. That much I know. She can't do a refi, take out an equity loan, nothing without your consent.

So talk to your lawyer. Take a deep breath. And don't worry about her arbitrary deadlines. Obviously this will upset her. Listen and validate.

What I can tell you is that you say way too much. And on Sunday no WAY should you have restarted the conversation.

One piece of final advice. Being nice will get you further than playing hardball. "We are going here, and here, watching fireworks, dropping brother off and then driving home." Use common courtesy. Technically you are right, it is none of her business. However, you should let the mother of a 1 year-old know what the plans are.

And the lack of calling son during the week, to me as a fellow father, is inexcusable. I would have called every day. Or at least texted her to ask how he was doing. Can't say your way of handling it was wrong, but it isn't how I would have approached it.

Well its official we are divorcing. More to follow. A part of me is somewhat relieved.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Funny Uni. I just had one of those moments last night and this morning with W about blame shaming, gas lighting, never being satisfied, justifying her actions, accepting no responsibility and blaming me for not meeting her needs and demands, not kowtowing to her hissy fits, and calmly but deliberately just blew it all up last night and detonated everything, hit the eject button, blew the bridge and said F@$! It! We are divorcing and I am somewhat relieved.

IH I am going to get real with you here. Do you feel better now? All you did was prove to her that she was right the entire time. That this is the real you and the last 12 months was you being fake trying to control the situation. Why are you here? DB is about being the lighthouse and keeping the road home paved smoothly. AS has posted often that even MWD wished she would have stressed more that this process takes much longer then most people think. You just had to have the last word. Look man I am going to be honest with you when I say you have a ton of work to do moving forward. I stopped reading your posts because the majority of them are demeaning to women. If I can feel it here there is no doubt in my mind your W had to feel it. You have indicated that this has happened to you 5 times. I think you need to look at the common denominator. I know you say your are done and have never been better but I feel like we have heard that multiple times from you in the past. Instead of searching for articles that back up your story that all women are evil and vindictive, I think its time to look in the mirror and decide if you have been through enough pain and if there are any truly genuine changes you can make moving forward.

I wish you the best.

Sure there are changes I can make moving forward. I may never change. I may change once I am alone seperated and divorced. Its not my choice. But anything, and any life is better than the current situation, I have been progressively experiencing for 10-12 months. The only way I am ever going to change is by letting this all go, and I can't do that anymore in IHS. I can't do that. I can't do that when she wants out. I can't do that if I have to experience her emotional blame about why I can't stick to her agenda and timeline, and I get more blame and shame about what it doesn't work for her. I handled it as calm as I could. I still have attorneys to consult with. she wants to refinance by the end of the month and consolidate all of our debts, and she wants an answer by this Friday. It got a little heated. We both calmed down and agreed to work together to push forward, work together to make this happen. Im miserable dealing with this and living life like this. All of you here encouraged dropping the rope, so I did. She wants divorce. She seems hesitant first, so I asked her several times are you sure this is what you want? She's sure. I'm not going back on this process. Im done waiting around for her to figure out herself, her identity, the marriage, where she wants to live, and who she wants to blame for it. Im tired of everything being all my fault and never being appreciated for the things I did do right. People here say I'm dismissive and she has said the same thing I'm going to try and work on that while working through this process. Im not looking back. I deserve better treatment then when I've been getting slowly a death by a thousand paper cuts over the last 10 months. I'd rather be alone and focus on my own life. I don't think all women are evil and vindictive, and I know my attitude and actions to play a role in this. But the only way I'm never going to change to get out of the situation. only then can I stop thinking about the 24/7 and be relaxed and put my focus back on myself.

maybe she'll change her mind and look back. Maybe I'll change. Maybe I won't? all I know is I wanted a family and a home and not some woman who wants to go gallivanting across the country in an RV as a single mom for her fantasy future. I'm not saying it's crazy or impossible, but she needs to take a good look in the mirror to what she's doing and who she is and what she's going to wind up with. all of you here Advocate not putting up with the bull$hit of the WAW and WW. Well I'm not anymore. I'm tired of shouldering the entire blame for the failure her life choices. Im not going to wait around anymore. I'm not anyone's plan b. She threw it in my face to love and to cherish. So I replied back but what about in bad times and good. I guess you only wanted the good times. it's funny how people have a lack of commitment accuse you of not being committed, and project it onto you. As much as it hurts I have to move forward, I don't have the patience left to hold out for this marriage anymore. Now I can relax my mind of her and put my mind on moving forward. so yeah there is a little bit of pain and regret but there is also relief. I'm choosing not to lie around for 2 years to see what happens. maybe we'll get back together after divorce and maybe we won't I really don't care anymore.

IHC, one of the things we always say is that it is always your choice to go ahead and get a D. Sometimes I will caution people that come to this point to make sure that it is REALLY what they want. The reason I do that is because sometimes the WAS makes things miserable for the LBS so that the LBS will do the dirty work of the D. So, do you want to divorce? If the answer to that question is yes, and you feel that you've done all you can do, that you can look back and without any regrets, and that when the time comes you can look your kids in the eyes and honestly tell them that you did everything in your power to avoid D, then I say go for it. If you have a problem with any one of those things then I would seriously consider giving it some more time. Only you can decide, but will another hour, day, or week, or even month really make that big of a difference at this point?

I do want to challenge you on one thing. You said: "The only way I am ever going to change is by letting this all go, and I can't do that anymore in IHS. "

And then you said:

"All of you here encouraged dropping the rope, so I did."

If the only way you can let all this go is to move for D, then how exactly have you "dropped the rope" up until now? Dropping the rope is sometimes not really understood, and I think you may have misunderstood it. Dropping the rope is not something you do, then stop and look back to see how she will react. That is not dropping the rope, that is letting it go ready to grab it again as soon as you feel you need to. Dropping the rope is dropping it and walking away (figuratively, not literally). It is really letting her go figure her stuff out and merely going on about your business of GAL, etc.

So did you really drop the rope? I would say with your mindset of the first quote above that you probably did not.

Hey Steve. I just got to that point where I'm so miserable in that house, in this situation with her, other than when I'm doing some GAL things Im just F@$KIN MISERABLE. I feel ignored, used, disrespected, unwanted, unloved, gas lighted, blamed, shamed and plenty of other things. I made a lot of bad mistakes and I feel really guilty about them I'm going to have to take that to the grave. I haven't made much improvement on any of them between all the conflicting advice on the way I interpreted here, and because I'm always focused on this 24/7, and never on myself. Im just ready to say F@$K it, the house, and her and move on. Its just not worth the mental stress to me anymore. Always reading different things here and elsewhere always focusing on this. Sure I intellectualize it but I don't know how to apply don't know if I'll ever change. I'm just the way I am and she is the way she is despite both of us doing our own individual work on ourselves. I've gradually Seen Her Go from 50% to 80% to 99% divorce in 10 months, change her plans several times on depending on her circumstances and monetary situation. Seeing all these wild and crazy ideas for these independent lifestyle fantasies across the country, some probability of an OM but no confirmation. every time we have to have a discussion about the logistics I get to hear the blame and shame list again because she thinks I'm holding her back and holding her up and I've always operated things on my own timeline and she's felt dismissed throughout the marriage. She's right for years it was my way or the highway. I've done a lot of bad $hit and I wish I could make up for it but I can't it's too little too late. in the beginning of our marriage I knew it was going to end this way because I'm a F@$k up with a good heart, and I make too many mistakes. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of mine with relationships. I knew she was eventually going to leave me seven years ago because everything she demanded of me I didn't fulfill an on her timeline, but i did fulfil it. On the other hand a lot of these things I've been blamed and shamed for some of them haven't been that much big of a deal but maybe it was to her. People say they like to forgive and forget but they don't ever forget. They will bring that $hit up 5 years later. I'm done with people who think and act like this. (Insert misogynist comment here.) So much trust has been broken, with absolutely no attempt on her and to attempt to repair it with me. she doesn't like the silent tension around the house that she created with her hardened heart. When in all truth the only thing I was doing was giving her her space. I've initiatied way too many relationship talks over the last 10 months. probably validated to her way too many things that I was guilty of what I can't change in the past or demonstrate now unless it is towards what she wants which is to sell the house and get away from the marriage. I don't want to be Plan B I don't want to C or Plan D. I know it sounds egocentric but I will not be strung along waiting in the wings in case she actually does make a mistake and decides to return after exploring her new life, and her new super awesome Confident self that she's looking at hopefully to metamorphosize into a butterfly from all the self-help stuff she reads but never applies. (Sound familiar?) I don't want to wait around for 2 years while she gets to start a new life. Make new friends and supposedly travel around the country. I don't want to keep criticizing her and I don't want her to keep criticizing me. we are both tired of going for the jugular with each other every time something important comes up and my decisions don't agree with hers. I'm just sick of it. I just want peace, and just want to be happy me again. So last night I said F@$k it. I took that last 1% of doubt in her mind I pushed it right over the edge. She had her little moment, cry. Ask a few questions talked about some more casual things and she went to bed. I was almost stoic about it. I love her dearly but maybe this is for the best after all. I want to give her time and space but not at the expense of breaking up the family and dividing the marital home. I have broken too many trust issues because of my lack of actions and my bad attitude, and avoidance on certain things for a time. I'm tired of getting a list of all the things I didn't do get thrown at me every time things get heated and shouldering the blame for everything about why she's so unhappy. It sad I've never got acknowledged for all the good and wonderful things I did since she became this person 12 months ago. I've been having nightmares and I haven't been sleeping, haven't been eating well and haven't been taking care of my health. been working overtime like a dog. The house is a dump and I'm too tired and too uninterested to even attempt anything. and the whole time I'm asking myself why am I wasting my time and my money and my life in this situation for a family and a W that doesn't want anymore. I've been putting too much emphasis story telling and story reading on here and other places. I can't nice her back and I can't mean her back, I can't change her back and I can't demonstrate that I've changed which I probably haven't much I don't think I ever will. she doesn't want to work on it. She wants to mediate with me towards divorce. I just said fine. What am I going to do fight her on it? Im resigned and miserable. I'm still a little sad and angry but I do feel a bit relieved. I'm just at a point where it's like you know what? the hell with it it's just a house it's just a legal piece of paper and just a meaningless declaration. She wants her Freedom? She can have it and she can keep it. I'm tired of working towards all this division, when I could be working towards regaining myself and a life without her. I don't want it to be this way orwa
end this way. But it's not going to be at the cost of my mental sanity anymore. I'm tired of fighting it. I'm just going to go with it and get it over with. we are both going to work together towards the mediator the divorce and a division of everything and the house still I just want to get this done and over with. too many trust issues have been violated and neither one of us is willing to work on it together so what the hell is the point? we might as well both agree to divorce and both work together towards it in a friendly manner and be good co parents. we may be attending a few family functions together but I know it doesn't mean anything. I'm not turning course from this. I have to run this ship until the land because of her decisions to end the M then I will. I'm not done loving her but I'm done with this marriage, and I'm done with the situation. Sorry if I'm an all-or-nothing guy. Just the way I am. Im going to have to divorce to be able to work on me. If he sees any changes and wants back okay great if she doesn't okay great either way. I've made enough mistakes I've gotten enough guff, and I've experienced enough pain to know when to quit. I'm done focusing on ever considering reconciling. I need to just plow through this hammer out the logistics get it done and move on with my life
as much as it hurts me to do it

The only thing that concerns me is "I am this way and that's the way it is" attitude. I think that might be where your marriage and DBing went off the rails. I'd have to go back and look, but I remember right you are not in IC. I think you said something (again sorry if I am not remembering correctly) about not believing IC.

IHC, you can't change what you don't acknowledge. The real question that I have after these last few posts is "why does IHC run in the face of hard work?" That is not a question I want you to answer. It is a question I want you to ponder. None of our sitches were easy. All of them were hard. Some ended in D, some ended in R. But to me the real difference between those that are successful in DBing (D or R) and those that are not is that those that are successful can objectively look at themselves and say "These are the things I need to change!" Those that can't do that, or won't do that, well those are the ones that are doomed to drag around the emotional baggage of their failed marriages for the rest of their life.

You can't change the past. The future isn't written yet. You do get to make choices in the present though. And the choices you make today will mold the future you have to live. I am not going to tell you your decision is wrong because I don't know if it is or not. What I will tell you is that D or R, you have the opportunity to be a better version of IHC today and tomorrow than you were yesterday. Seize the moment. Get into IC and work through your issues, your shortcomings, and most importantly, your fears!

Now go do the right thing.

Hey Steve. I have acknowledged plenty. I've had plenty of therapy over the years, and read so many psych articles, and books, and the DSM V but that doesn't mean I can change my whole personality. I can be more aware of things. Attempt to respond differently to certain situations, rehearse an action plan if I find myself in one of those situations. Attempt emotional regulation. But it feels so rehearsed. But the way I think act and feel is the way I just am. My thoughts are my thoughts, meaningful, scattered, over analytical, emotional, my choices are sometimes good and concise and sometimes poor. I have a low frustration tolerance, and a medium temperament. With histrionic negative mindset sometimes. I snap out of it and get positive, but not until I find a release for that emotion. Mild impulse control, etc. Some day that I want to do the work and other days I don't. I was just talking to the wife about this tonight. I don't want to filll my head with anymore complexities than I already have. It's almost like reading 500 text books on psych and behavior and the author saying to be more like what we say and less like yourself. I want to change I just don't know if my deeply ingrained personality will ever let me. People here tell me all the time I write too much I think too much I feel too much, I don't think enough. I talk too much, my opinions are too controversial, too broad or too narrowminded. I seek attention too much. The truthful matter is I'm not seeking attention from anyone. I do enjoy it. Especially from female companions and loved ones I can relate to. But I don't need it. Trying to figure out how to be a better improved version of myself, is like saying. I know what I have to change but i don't know how to do it in action. just because I understand something intellectually and emotionally. doesn't mean I know how to consistently apply it. I'm one of those stubborn people that desires change and always wants to better himself, but can't seem to stay committed to it. the only way people like me learn is through hard times and pain, where the risk is so great that the reward forces you to change. I think I need to be alone for once in my life to figure that part of me out. it's difficult unlearning bad habits and creating new ones. sometimes I wonder if I'm a product of my environment and my upbringing, and my social and work environment. I just don't know? it's weird I've always known who I am but I never knew who I wanted to be, but yet I wanted to be like everyone else but yet I still want to be me more. I explain things so much cuz I always feel misunderstood. it's really hard for me to let go of who I was and am and begin to whom I want to be.

This has no reflection on you good sir or anyone here for that matter. Someone once told me. "Opinions are like @$$holes, everybody's got one." (That my construction blatency coming out in me.) I'm loaded with opinions so I guess that makes me an @$$hole. I find a lot of truth in that statement though no one ever interpret the world the way yourself does. Some personalities play well together and some don't. there was a demonstration I saw once on this CD about how Benjamin Franklin develop his character principles and how every time he met someone new he tried to improve on them, I brought that into therapy years ago. Do you think I followed through with it or change anything about me as a result of it? I'm too busy just trying to live like everyone else I don't know how much time I can do go to work on myself. This is why therapy is useful to me but meaningless. I learn so much but its hard for me to keep a beginners mind and apply it. Im not making any sense anymore. Sorry for the ramble. I'm addicted to this site, my situation and everyone's stories so much that I've forgotten how to be myself at times, and focus my energy on myself.

Hey IHC, well I�m glad you have decided this is what will be best for you. I know we talked recently about making the W do the dirty work and file. Now that D is what you believe you want, will you be filing? It�s a tough situation but if that�s what you believe will be best for you, good on you man!

Quote

The only way I am ever going to change is by letting this all go, and I can't do that anymore in IHS.

I thought you were physically separated!

Okay, then the sooner you can separate physically, the better you may start to feel. Maybe even taking a break from the board will help. You spend an enormous amount of time & energy in the posts you write every day. Maybe it is your way of venting, but perhaps you need to find more balance in spending time on the board and GAL. ((hugs))

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I can't do that. I can't do that when she wants out. I can't do that if I have to experience her emotional blame about why I can't stick to her agenda and timeline, and I get more blame and shame about what it doesn't work for her. I handled it as calm as I could. I still have attorneys to consult with. she wants to refinance by the end of the month and consolidate all of our debts, and she wants an answer by this Friday. It got a little heated. We both calmed down and agreed to work together to push forward, work together to make this happen. Im miserable dealing with this and living life like this.

I remember when you first joined the board, you said something to the effect of having the love for debate, especially political views (which covers a vast area these days). Your posts often reflect this, and that's okay as long as it is beneficial to you or someone else. My concern is for you, and I can't help but wonder if your fight is more about winning this debate with your W. You've been it in for the fight, and to win it, IMHO. However, it has nibbled away at you, and you need to end the fight. Nobody wins in a divorce. Fighting her over every single thing will eventually wear you down and corrupt your spirit until your mind is filled with nothing but negative views. I know, b/c I've been there myself. Talking about it may help to some degree, as far as getting it off your chest. However, it doesn't resolve anything.

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We both calmed down and agreed to work together to push forward, work together to make this happen. Im miserable dealing with this and living life like this. All of you here encouraged dropping the rope, so I did. She wants divorce. She seems hesitant first, so I asked her several times are you sure this is what you want? She's sure. I'm not going back on this process. Im done waiting around for her to figure out herself, her identity, the marriage, where she wants to live, and who she wants to blame for it. Im tired of everything being all my fault and never being appreciated for the things I did do right.

Of course you are tired. It's time to let it go. You need time away from her, to heal your wounds. Don't give up on life. You are facing a new chapter with new adventures. There are good women still left in this world. They aren't all the way you've described your WW. My prayer for you is that this experience will not leave you bitter against all women.

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As much as it hurts I have to move forward, I don't have the patience left to hold out for this marriage anymore. Now I can relax my mind of her and put my mind on moving forward. so yeah there is a little bit of pain and regret but there is also relief. I'm choosing not to lie around for 2 years to see what happens. maybe we'll get back together after divorce and maybe we won't I really don't care anymore.

I really hope you can find the peace you need. Find something that will help you get your mind off your W and the sitch.

(((hugs)))

IHC, I think what I hear you saying is that you acknowledge what you need to change, but you just don't want to change it. With that mindset I think the most insightful thing you wrote was "I think I need to be alone for once in my life to figure that part of me out." Please seize on that. Make this your mantra moving forward. Why? Because you also wrote: "The truthful matter is I'm not seeking attention from anyone. I do enjoy it. Especially from female companions and loved ones I can relate to."

My fear for you is that you will close the door on this chapter of you life, make no changes, crave that female attention and affection, fall too quickly into another relationship, and end up back to this some point in short order. Many LBSs have thrown in the towel in order to seek out someone new. We have a saying around here about making a WAS that wants to reconcile do their hard work to come back. But the same goes for the LBS. If you do not make changes in yourself, and EARN your way into a new MR (either with your WAS or someone new), you are setting yourself up for another, future BD.

Peace brother. Focus on you. Get back to your spiritual side (you seemed to have a strong one before this latest "I am all in on the D" phase. Reconnect with God and get your life right! Onward and upward!

Originally Posted by sandi2

I remember when you first joined the board, you said something to the effect of having the love for debate, especially political views (which covers a vast area these days). Your posts often reflect this, and that's okay as long as it is beneficial to you or someone else. My concern is for you, and I can't help but wonder if your fight is more about winning this debate with your W. You've been it in for the fight, and to win it, IMHO. However, it has nibbled away at you, and you need to end the fight. Nobody wins in a divorce. Fighting her over every single thing will eventually wear you down and corrupt your spirit until your mind is filled with nothing but negative views. I know, b/c I've been there myself. Talking about it may help to some degree, as far as getting it off your chest. However, it doesn't resolve anything.

HO MAN! This is good stuff. IHC, right fighters are RARELY happy. You know why? Because you can't ALWAYS be right. And right fighters would rather be right than happy. See the problem? Sandi, as usual, you are so insightful!!

^^^^ You have a really good point about the right fighters part Steve85. I have given that some thought lately. What's the point of always being right if you're miserable. That's why I put the politics down just decide to focus on me.

I have another long insightful story, but sad story I'm composing for later regarding our sit down from last night. A lot of the things that were said here came to fruition between our words. I'll post it later when I have time so brace yourselves...lol

Okay, don't make us wait too long....especially with a setup like that.

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You have a really good point about the right fighters part Steve85. I have given that some thought lately. What's the point of always being right if you're miserable. That's why I put the politics down just decide to focus on me.

I'm really glad to hear you say this, and I hope you'll stick to it. I use to be pretty much one of those right fighters, but I discovered it didn't cause me to be loved more. In fact, it made me look unattractive to my H, so being right held very little to zero happiness for me.

Some former board members use to ask, "Is this the hill you really want to die on?" When it comes to our relationships and being right, we probably need to ask ourselves that question, cause something is going to die.....you can count on it.

Sandi - I love the hill metaphor - it helps sort out what is important and what is not (to me). Identify the hills you would die on, everything else is a pointless skirmish. Sometimes we fight the pointless battles, and we win, and we look around from the top of the hill and think.. "I'm still sitting here alone on top of this hill, what was the point of that?! I want to be on top of that hill over there..."

God I really don't know if I can go on. Today's balling fit topped the charts after work in the heat, little food, and realizations of who W was. God please I want my wife back!!! At the very least help me through this! Sleep has been little and funky the last few days, dreams weird, reality just can't be present. Sometime I choose to be positive ehen the negative thoughts and all the positive history creeps in. God I can't go on. No matter how much I temporarily convince myself. I can't go on anymore. GAL ing is just a buffer. Only feels good temporarily. This is no where near like losing a GF and moving on. I am going to have to see her every couple of days once one of us physically moves outI am going to be healing from this for the rest of my life. I can't even bring myself to jointly plan my S2 2bd birthday in a month or two. She has already invited all of mine and her family. I gave her the venue idea willing to commit to it a few days ago, only to re neg until I decide by Mon. I don't know if I can do it. Im a emotional wreck again. I can't decide. We were going to go out to my cousins in a few weeks together to see new home, W wanted to go. But I changed my mind again on that one too. After all the mental back and forth. This is so painful being caught between who I remember and who she is now. I wish I could gain back her trust and respect again, and vice versa, and she wasn't so scared of me. Steve, LH, AS and LB55 are right. I need IC therapy STAT! I have to find a way. I have to go to church. She is set on the Divorce but still at 99.9 percent on the fence. She feels guilty and she knows I an hurting, and cares for me but, she's leaned that far. Her guard and walls are up, and again will never look at me in a romantic light ever again. I think that last .9% is her guilt insecurity and fear, and she's moving torwatds following through with it.

I am so exhausted. I wish I could rationalise with myself how some moments the D is just a legal piece of paper, and there is a great life ahead of me once I get through this. On the other hand. Flaws trust issues and all I want no one else in my life, and I hope to God I recover someday and see past this that this is for the better

Hey man. Remember when you were helpin me out like I dunno 5 min ago. We are gonna get through this. I have no idea how TBH but the vets do.

I know my opinion carries little weight here yet but I�m tryin to let you know someone is here

Uhhhh I can't even nap anymore without having dreams of scenarios of W leaving me. Lately she is in the dream on some vacation excursion with S1 and MIL and I have to go and pick him up and no matter what I say to her in the dream, she always has a bunch of reasons ready for me why this isn't going to work, Or tries to start an argument with me. The last one was I walked into her room in a dream loop three times to reconcile. Hug her and kiss her 3 times and 3 times J failed. I think my mind is trying to deal with the denial that comes up that this is never working out in the future. GOD PLEASE WAKE ME UP!!!

I need to get my mind off of her for a week or so before I go F$!#ING bat$hit Looney Tunes full breakdown, never get off the floor crazy and do something self caring like a massage or something. Or a week away. I just can't neglect anymore responsibility and have to TCB soon when it comes to house chores and mediation. I can't get off the couch again im so depressed today. Can't even go food shopping or feed myself, plus just got out of 100 deg heat. The bodily ability is there but my spirit is dead for today. My mind has to eventually accept this is happening and move on.Going to order a pizza

To Ozman. My W got an invitation yesterday from GF where I think this all started from GF engagement party last August. She has been spending a lot of time with her and her friends and Company lately other than dresses and Bridal stuff. Is where I think she is constantly going out to cuz I know what all her other friends are typically doing. Her girlfriend sent it with no return address for future invitations for. Save the date for 2020 January. It was addressed to her maiden name so I guess the writing's on the wall. Sometimes that wedding let's see if she sleeps is anybody there or she's currently seeing anyone in the party which I suspect I can't prove. Screw it. I can't do anything about it.or control any of this but me. This stuff really is a death by a thousand paper cuts which takes a year or two to go through another year or two to recover probably.

IHCLACS , if you feel suicidal, please call a hot line or someone to talk you off the ledge. For sure, get into therapy!

Originally Posted by sandi2

IHCLACS , if you feel suicidal, please call a hot line or someone to talk you off the ledge. For sure, get into therapy!

This!!!

Im ok. Was depressed all day watching S1. Im starting to get back into frame. Ill get through this. I need an opinion here on moving forward. I want to take the partial buyout option of $5k up front, and roughly $40k. when the house sells potentially next spring. I'm looking to work up lawyer consultation and mediator consultations, and an MOA that stipulate this. I just want to get the f@$! away from here at this point, focus on me, and start rebuilding my life.

It's either that or option b where we stick it out until the house sells next year, BIL potentially moves in to cut costs at her request. I'm really not having any of this $hit. But half the deed is in her name and she has legal grounds to do so. She's strapped for money too so she's trying to get me to refinance with her, then we split the assets when the house sells, or she refinances, does the buyout, removes me from deed. Give up starter $5k to me with MOA contract to pay off to me once house sells. She wants to consolidate all of our joint debts too. it's confusing. Personally I want no frikkem business venture with her whatsoever. Affecting my credit. It's my fault I let her handle the bills last couple years only being somewhat aware of what was going on and signing on to her poor decisions. Even though she makes more than I do.

I just want to get out of here but also covering myself legally with my custody of my son. No BS ababdonment charges, no alimony payments and out of court CS just padding S1 food clothes and diaper bills. She can pay her own medical insurance on him.

Another thing is his birthday parties coming up in 2 months she wants to invite all of our families to it and wants a decision for me and what I want to get involved with me or not I haven't decided yet but have until tomorrow. I'm probably going to say no I'm making my own plans for him. What do you guys think about all this?

^^^ What does anyone here think about current given scenario above if they have a moment, and thank you in advanced. I need to figure out my next chess move in a week or so and don't really know how to proceed until I meet with L this Weds.

Some say no (Steve85 and Sandi, correct me if wrong, im thinking of you two). Best DB is no family time at all. They need to get used to separate celebrations anyhow.

I'm in same boat. My view is I'm going to do no family time EXCEPT S6 birthday. I simply don't have the heart to face my S6 to skip. W bday coming up too. She gets a card and gift from kids. Which is more than what some here would say. My POV, I don't know of any guy friend or even gay guy friend who would give a gift and card to girl. So why should XH? Give the kids some pens and they can do something. And Sandi has said as much.

Thanks Josh. I already made my decision on seperate plans with S1 for Bday. I was just wondering what everyone's opinion here was on going forward with house refi options I listed, mediation, and such. I'm not even concerned with W's state torwards me. She is currently as cold as ice from last week.

I thought I had typed out a response on my phone, but apparently I never sent it.

On the birthday party. I highly suggest going through with a joint party. While Josh is right that kids and family will need to get used to separate events in the future, there also will be joint events too. Graduation partiy, wedding, 16th birthday. Yes smaller events will be separate. But there are going to be some big events that will be joint events.

On the financial stuff. IHC, the decision is made, right? You guys are splitting up. So why would you do anything that combines your finances in any way? Though I have to say I don't trust her on the refinance. So just put the house up for sale, but put everything else on hold. When you D you will, with mediation and/or court help, split everything 50/50. You and she will get 50% of the proceeds from the sale. Half of all the debt. Etc.

And do not leave the marital home until the D is settled or ordered by a court to do so. Yes there are legal ramifications by doing that. Could impact custody, and whether or not you abandoned the house as far as who gets that and the equity that goes with it. Stick it out IHC. A few more months won't kill you.

Steve. Was going to do joint b day party. Decided to do it seperate and am holding on that. After already changing my mind once. She already put together a list of my family and her family, and I gave her the idea for the venue. I took 4 days to decide it. I decided as much as I wanted to originally do this jointly for the sake of my S1, my attitude torwards her and the actions she is taking has changed. Maybe in the following years I will go joint on special occasions. She understands this. No more family functions together as of now. (I still suspect EA which she denies, as of current for another story.) I am not combining refinancing in any way. I don't trust her with them anymore. I understand the abandonment and legal ramifications for leaving the M home before the D. I will get more into that with L tomorrow. I'm hoping to get something drawn up to where the custodial parental rights are drawn up if I do move out and no legal action will be taken against me when I do decide to go in a few month after partial buyout moneys after refinance. It will be her job once I'm out to list the house on the market and take care of the house from there on all the appraisals and repairs and so forth.

Yeah be careful here. I am sure anything she spends towards the house in this scenario will come off any monies you receive from the sale. Listen to your L regarding all of this. I am just a logical layman!

One of my adult kids that's divorced has gone through many of those special events in life already. There has only been one large event that was in a public setting with hundreds of people in attendance. Their family and our family did not sit together, and I never saw them until after the event. We said our hellos and acted like we would treat a friendly cashier. There is no animosity between my child's former in-laws and us, but we don't run in the same circles and we don't hold celebrations together. Everyone has moved on, remarried, and have their separate celebrations with the kids. Our GD gets two BD celebrations per year, two Thanksgivings, two Christmases, etc. The two families have managed to work together well in setting days for celebrations. You discover that Christmas or a birthday celebration doesn't have to be on the calendar date, but whenever the family (with grandparents, etc.) can celebrate together. We have one on our side, and they have one on their side. So far, it has worked fine and nobody has tried to be unpleasant or uproot plans for the other family.

If she has a wedding some day, I feel confident we all will be civil, polite, and treat each other respectfully. I have discovered that weddings can be the most trying times in the best of families, so I might need to start praying now.

If she has children one day, I think both family members will be at the hospital together and looking at the newest generation coming into both sides of her family. (Now I am getting teary-eyed).

The first year after their split was the hardest for all of us. It affects the entire family when those special occasions arrive. My suggestion is to make sure you are not the one who is trying to intentionally cause an upset, trouble, or pain for the other spouse or members of her family. Don't act out of anger, spite, bitterness, pride, etc. Do what you believe is the right thing to do. ((hugs))

That's my biggest problem is pride, stubborness and I try not to be reactive and vindictive, it gets stirred up sometimes, but I do my best not to act on it. Just when I think I've relinquished it it rears its ugly head again. Something I need to change. Pride is what got me in this mess in the first place. 5 days ago I was willing to put aside differences for the sake of our son and do the party jointly... W also asked me to come down to friends D birthday party after I was done with OT Sat. I asked her if she wanted me there or if she needed space. She said let me think about it. She was flip-flopping between having me there or just coming down to pick up S1. So i asked her to let me know by Friday otherwise I'll make plans for Saturday I told her. I decided it was best I just let her be down there with S1 at the party with all her friends.

I however was actually excited about the both of us planning my son's birthday party at first. I was the one that came up with the idea for the venue. Since she wanted to start planning it with me jointly. I was also invited to another birthday party over the weekend. She also want to go to my cousin's house to see her new house with me and S1 that is the only occasion that we have considered doing jointly together outside our son's birthday. I decided to retract the cousins visit together and do it separate. Then I decided to retract doing the son's birthday together. My problem is I'm still continually reacting to how much he is progressing in the S/D process. There are some days we have some really good long talks but it still goes nowhere and she still keeps losing more and more towards divorce. I still haven't posted that conversation on here yet. I'm still somewhat suspect that she is in a EA too but I don't have 100% proof. Just clues. Again some days were nice with one another and other days it's just business as usual and other days it's just silence, and constant tension. When she's tense time im calm and when I'm calm she's tense. When she gets tense about her timeline and how she wants proceed with things and I state that I'm not ready for that until I speak with the lawyer she gets all bent out of shape and emotional and a little bit hostile and then we come down again. Both of our emotions are all over the map the time I where we are what we're doing how are day was what's going on and how we're proceeding.

I never know when I'm doing the right thing around here and everything's always on a time schedule. (Which I totally understand and I'm grateful for your help.) But by the time someone gets words of wisdom back to me here on what to do I've already have had to make a decision and sometimes I don't know if I'm making the right one out of pride or honor or vindicism or what? I'm not confident in my abilities to make decisions through all this because of my emotions and my logic and my reactivity getting in the way of another. Basically when she moves forward I move forward and when she steps back I step back. It's not difficult to understand what everyone here has been telling me and telling other people with their situation over the last several months. It's and when to apply it. Balance, timing, good judgement, etc.

I don't know what's the right thing to do. Then there's the decision of am I doing right by? Myself? Or my son. Am I protecting myself from getting emotional at a joint family occaision? Or am being perceived as being spiteful and flip floppy with my feelings, based on which direction we are headed in at any given day. It's a constant internal struggle. I don't show it but I know she can sense it. I get so confused around here when I need answers and I'm asking for advice because of everyone else's situations and what I read and timing of everything if when I need to apply it by.. (Please don't misread this as me being blaming in anyway.) I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face or be hardnosed unless necessary. What I'm trying to say is I can read the Vets here saying in one instance stop allowing the playing family and cake eating, then Sandi will giving some very insightful well articulated compassionate advise. If I knew for a fact whether my W was WW or WAW. It would be a game-changer for me. All the signs are there and the probable cause is there I have been there since January. But there's no proof. Either way she doesn't have any romantic feelings for me is somewhat scared of me so she professed before. Looks at me as a friend in this sorry she's hurting me but not the cost of her happiness. Is 99.9% certain she wants divorce, and any resistance I put up towards her as far as on her timeline about selling the house just drives her further to it. The only thing that keeps her hesitant is fear and insecurity of her own. She is fairly confident now she is not making a mistake. I am however cooperating with her and all of this now. The Mediation, all the paperwork, but not before I check my rights, and secure myself. ( I will get into my other story sometime when I have the chance to write it up to about all of the verbal discussions we had last week, what was discussed how she said things to me.)

I don't want to be just her friend, and I don't want to play familybtowards doing family things together when we are not together. On the other hand I want to do things right by son. Me flip-flopping like this all the time given everyone's input at certain given times. And me being able to make a decision based on the day-to-day circumstances that changes too, is killing any consistency of mine. But I'm doing my best to remain consistent in behavior, attitude, emotion, and decisions.

thanks sandi

Thanks Steve85 too.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

I never know when I'm doing the right thing around here and everything's always on a time schedule. (Which I totally understand and I'm grateful for your help.) But by the time someone gets words of wisdom back to me here on what to do I've already have had to make a decision and sometimes I don't know if I'm making the right one out of pride or honor or vindicism or what? I'm not confident in my abilities to make decisions through all this because of my emotions and my logic and my reactivity getting in the way of another. Basically when she moves forward I move forward and when she steps back I step back. It's not difficult to understand what everyone here has been telling me and telling other people with their situation over the last several months. It's and when to apply it. Balance, timing, good judgement, etc.

I don't know what's the right thing to do. Then there's the decision of am I doing right by? Myself? Or my son. Am I protecting myself from getting emotional at a joint family occaision? Or am being perceived as being spiteful and flip floppy with my feelings, based on which direction we are headed in at any given day. It's a constant internal struggle.

IHC - you do realize that you've basically described what life is...

I feel for ya buddy. I'm in the same boat.

I think we are all kinda just making this all up as we go along.

That's the thing about life. What do you want out of it? How do you want to live? And do the people in your life want the same thing as you? Are they ok being on the journey with you, a journey where no one knows any of the "right" answers?

Sometimes you gotta roll with the punches and let the dice fall where they may. It may not be what you originally wanted but sometimes in life we don't get what we want and that's ok too.

Stay strong man

Thanks IW. Ive been used to rolling with the punches my whole life. I'm sure some people can get exhausted by it. I think I'm ok with S. Had another discussion about L appointment. Asked for any docs needed. Had a few honest questions and honest answers tonight. Made sure W was ok with me deciding to do S1 birthday separate and wasn't upset by my decision. Got into a brief argument once again about something she never said to me she thought she did. She set up an addition consultation with another mediator. We did discus the night prior after our 1st consultation. That she would setup the next one of her choice. I was never notified that she made an appointment for tonight at 5pm. She says she told me. I went through 2 hours of accountability that she even bore witness to at times she thought she told me. Same old same old. Blames me for things she never notified me on. But anyways we both laughed it off, I smiled and I just said kindly notify me by email as we have been doing to prevent this kind of thing again as we have been doing for the last several months. Instead of this he said she said dysfunctional dynamic of ours doesn't continue.

I think we both want to decide on D once we have some space and clarity. She still wants me to move to the basement if I decide to stay in the home the next 8 to 10 months once I consult with L to decide which way is best for me to go. But she needs to refinance fast to make the mortgage payment next month because she is broke. I am not partaking in any financial expenditure with her other than current obligations. I decided to take a few moments to think about the basement move and reply back to her. She says she really needs her sense of space to focus on improvements. We went back and forth about how I am interrupting her life or interfering with her improvements in any way, and its not fair for me to move. But I entertained it for a few moments. I told her I would think about it. Then got back to her in 10 min. Why it wouldn't work for me with laundry, company noise, etc.... Maybe I will consider it just to actually have a sense of space myself. We'll see. Ideally she wants separate living quarters but can settle with me living in basement. I don't see the basement working out for me so?... No.. But I will still consider it silently for both our benefit. I think we both ideally want to do the right thing by each other, and not screw each other over. I will be helpful and friendly until any boundaries are crossed. Time to focus on me now. I want to change for real this time and for the better. I think Im finally starting to accept what is and put the W on the shelf and start focusing on my improvements now. Peace and honesty is so much easier than holding onto all this stuff and holding stuff in.

Got in from L consultation tonight. $350 for them just to review assets and liabilities. Note to self. (Lawyers don't educate you on process, talk a lot and ask a lot of questions more related to $ and not laws.) Probably would require a retainer to answers those questions. Lol... But I did pick up a few things. Didn't realize marital debts are individual and joint debts. Just thought they were joint. Pretty much reffered me to a mediator to start drawing up paperwork for financials and told me to stay put im home until MOU or divorce is settled regardless of what W wants to do with Refi, getting me out of house with buyout, or offering partial buyout asap. My head was spinning a little when I left from all the talking of L. Need to educate myself more on the actual process. Next time I think I could use more visual presentation.

Im at that point where I'm starting to feel confident most of the time of myself. I'm putting the W and the sich down on the shelf. Im tired of always playing with it in the back of my mind. I'm making a new change list this evening categorized in all the areas of improvement I would like to make regarding health, habits, desires, hobbies, spiritual, financials, behavioral etc. I started that back in January but abandoned it. In going to start slow and small and implement them with DISCLIPINE for 28 days until it sticks, one at a time. Time to live for me and get back to me again.
I have to regain my confidence in my life by not only exploring the things I once lived and put down for practical reasons, but also try new things. I AM THE ONE THAT HAS TO CHANGE to live a fruitful life, regardless of outcome. I almost feel like I'm 26 again starting where I left off. Dancing, writing music, self improvement, etc. You know? Single.. July 26th would have been our 12th dating anniversary. Oh well?...

[censored] to read all these sitch's not working out. I feel for you - that's all I can say.

So W texted me saying she wanted to discuss the 3rd mediator she called when I got home. So we started discussing the details again about Refi, her agenda to have me out by August. She cannot afford to pay the mortgage for August, has taken half of my tax monies from 2018 and has been living off of that for a bit. We had a discission back in March that She was explicitly going to bank the tax returns to pay mortgage for August. Now She doesn't remember ever saying such things, and thinks Im pulling it out of my a$$. We also originally agreed that since I had double insurance, my policy of my own through work, and I was also on her health insurance as well, that I was going to remain on it, and pay for my portions out of house sale divided monies when house sold. She doesn't remember that now either! I documented all these conversations months ago. The only reason why I even stayed on our insurance was for the health mental health benefits. My insurance had a $5,000 deductible on mental health when I was attended therapy. So I use her insurance for the $5 copay until the insurance companies find out that I had a primary and I was on her secondary and they didn't want to pay out for mental health coverwgebage. I have terminated my mental health counseling and my insurance with my W effective immediately. Without even telling me she's been using the tax money to pay other things and use my portions of it.

She was going to consult with a family attorney that we originally closed on our house, I advised her to do so. I explained my position of what I was advised by my attorney, not to leave the home until MOA is drawn up, all marital assets and liabilities are addressed and plugged in, CS is plugged in, etc. and goes to attorney review, etc. I am going to call one more mediator, that the attorney recommend. W heard of this mediator also from SIL. W was upset that I was consid ER ing hiring an attorney, not only because of cost puppy cuz she thinks that an attorney is going to fight tooth and nail for every asset and drag this out which circumvents the point of even using a mediator. I explained to her that I need to consult with one to protect my legal rights as far as my vested interests as well as custodial with S1. That I'm not trying to drag my heels intentionally or being facetious and vindictive in anyway I just need legal advice how to proceed forward to protect my interests. That she can expect a refinance a mortgage without me on it since I won't commit to it and only give me a small portion as incentive to move out, and the other portions goes towards a joint consolidated debt.

I attempted to explain to her that she may have her own agenda and timeline, and I understand that she needs to protect herself but I also need to protect myself as well. She became even more upset and she indicated that she was tired of being held back and held captive all throughout the last 12 years, that everything was always on my timeline. She felt that I held her back in life. So I validate the best I could and said to her I'm sorry if you felt that way that I was holding you back, but we are on two different timelines with two different agendas right now. It's not fair to me that you are choosing to leave the marriage and you are on your own timeline in the agenda and you are trying to push me out within a month. She then got upset and said that she managed to pack up all her stuff in the last 3 months, why couldn't I? Because I wasn't prepared to leave I stated. That this is your choice not mine. and that you have changed their mind three times about the house depending on the circumstances. Originally she wanted me to live in the basement and stay here for the next year back in January. then she start looking at apartments and wanted to get out of here and she wanted me to buy her house and I definitely wasn't comfortable with that and taking on the home mortgage note by myself on my income. She decided consult with a realtor and attempted but failed to put the house in the market 2 months ago, was going to sell it and miss the market window. now she has to wait until next year to put it on market. now she wants to refinance and keep it for the next year and she just buying time with it before she puts on the market next year and she wants me out as soon as possible. I asked her what is the primary concern and the hurry for the Refi? Is it mainly because you just need money to pay the mortgage for August or do you really want me out of the house that bad and need your space? Again she started getting upset and then she went to a room and close the door. she went on Facebook Messenger for about 10 to 15 minutes I've been developing a pattern with that with her at certain times of the night . So I left her alone. She then came out and made a cappuccino. I decided to take S1 to the park to give her space and leave her alone and get the hell out of the drama. I said we will see you later in a very pleasant voice and left.

So I sent her a quick text while I was at the park. I probably shouldn't have and should have just left it alone.

H: I know you are a ball of stress at the moment. But in case you just want to put these things down for a little while and have some fun with S1 We will be here. He is having a great time climbing the jungle gym.

W:I just need some quiet at the moment, but I'd love pictures/videos.

H: I know. I know you need QT and space, which is why I took S1 out of the house and to park.(S1 was getting upset.). Im trying to be considerate of your feelings. Oooh I think we are about to make some new friends here.

I got home about an hour later and her car was gone the whole house smells like perfume. So I figured she must have messed with somebody on Facebook messenger and went out.

W found more short books on single parenting. Singleness. How to be single and satisfied. Successful parenting, Self-worth discover your God-given worth, codependency balancing unbalanced relationships,
And verbal and emotional abuse. By June Hunt. Looks like something you pick up off a shelf at a consultation.

I am sick and tired of being vilified by her. I understand the pain she's going through trying to find herself, her worth, her happiness, etc. But how in the world am I responsible for holding her back She is her own person, that makes her own choices? She always thinks I'm standing in her way. She Journaled back in 2013 that she was willing to leave me because we had to house shop for for our home, we took a year and doing so but she wanted me to do it on her timeline and her expectations. Same thing with the baby and IVF because I was infertile. She blamed all that on me too. That everything always had to be on my timeline. She wanted the house she got it she wanted the baby she got it, she want to always go out and have fun with her friends and she got it. she want to explore new Endeavors with her life as far as health coaching and nutrition and all these other things that interest her and she always drop the commitments to them. When I tried to hold her to be accountable for responsibility in the home she just wanted to sit on the couch like a lump and be depressed most of the time. I didn't even ask for much. The only thing I ever expect from her was a clean sink that wasn't full of dishes all the rest I could let go. We always try to hammer it out with the division of labor but one of us would always fall by the wayside and honoring our agendas or she didn't feel like it. every time I tried to encourage her to go walking with me exercise with me or go out with me she would never feel like it's why I left her be throughout the marriage. And in doing so I pursued my own hobbies and interests and then she wondered why I was so removed from her. It's like she's blaming her whole misery on me why she can't lose weight while she can't have her space why she can't be comfortable around me, why she didn't get the travel as much as she wanted to. now she wants to go on all these Adventures but realizes they're not realistic with a one-year-old like single mom RV camping. she's absolutely crazy she's trying to find happiness outside of herself and she doesn't realize that it has to come from within the she has to choose it. I'm tired of being gas-lit for all of all of the problems in her life. When she lacked the discipline she lacked the commitments, these were all her choices and I'm to blame for them apparently. I'm so sick of being vilified that I'm emotionally and verbally abusive I know I'm a little rough around the edges, and I try to empathise and understand where people are coming from. But when people throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way and then try to blame you for it it's really revolting.

I just want to get through this process and get this done I am so over this $hit. I don't know who this person even is anymore i just want to get on with my life, get into my own place and get totally focused on myself ASAP. Without getting legally or financially railroaded. I have no desire to R, or ever consider her again. Im debating if I should what her posted divorce through after we get to mediation setup, or should I just push it through myself and be done with it. Too much trust has been broken this is irreparable, and granted I'm the one that may be contributed to some of the problems throughout the marriage she's the one that brought it to this. I saw her true colors long before I even married her and I should have known her level of commitment not only to herself but to me. she gave herself away to everyone's and it was nothing left of her and I understand that and she does honestly need to rebuild her life and find herself. but I can tell that this is a person that will always be searching for happiness outside themselves in external things and never try to fill it for themselves and in themselves. They can never be fully satisfied or conten or grateful at any one moment given in time. and if they are, their future expectations are never clearly worded or communicated, or I certainly addressed working to find a resolution rather than just complain about it, and why they're so unhappy because of other people.

I can't wait to just get this over and done with and get on with my life because this is absolute Insanity where I'm always being accused of not remembering things when I write them down when I least discuss significant things and yes I do forget things every now and again but she totally rewrites things in her head so many times which is why I just stopped communicating with her all together and told her send it through email and she even botches that up too. She conveniently acknowledges the things that benefit her but ignores the rest.

IH After reading your last post I feel like we married twins. What you wrote I could have written word for word. How hey can�t find their own happiness, that they are constantly chasing it and also making us out to be the villian. That our m problems was all my fault and they did nothing wrong. Even what you wrote about the gym. I would always ask my w to go and she would always say she hated it. Guess what she started to do once we separated, yep go to the gym. Same with the house she never took care of the house. I did most of it which was fine, but when I asked her she would get so mad that I asked her to put the dishes in the dish washer. I guess there is nothing we can do, they have to go through this mental turmoil by themselves. And maybe oneday they will wake up and realize what they lost. But by then we could be gone. It�s sad that they are so lost and don�t realize what they are doing. Everything is based on emotions. Not logic.

Can't see your comment Wolfie. Might be out of room and need to start a new thread.

Sorry IH. This is who she is right now. Save yourself. (((HUGS)))

Thanks Deja3vu6. I am slowly but I am saving myself. Your particular situation is very insightful and helpful in the understanding women better. Again I am sorry that you are in your situation as well. It takes a lot of clarity fortitude and patience to go the distance in the middle of these things especially once the mediators and lawyers get involved.

Thanks Deja3vu6. I am slowly but I am saving myself. Your particular situation is very insightful and helpful in the understanding women better. Again I am sorry that you are in your situation as well. It takes a lot of clarity fortitude and patience to go the distance in the middle of these things especially once the mediators and lawyers get involved. I'm starting to think that my wife was always this person but I just overlooked it and the red flags of it for years. She changed a bit and I change the bit as life got more complex and interacting with one another. She is not the conflicted type it is the type of suppressor emotions a bit but not totally and I'm the one that just lets all my emotions out and speaks my mind all the time. I honestly can't understand why she feels like she would be walking on eggshells. Bummer tempting not to do that anymore and always try and keep a positive attitude around here regardless of the circumstances. Right now she is so repulsed by me she can't barely even stand to be in the same room with me listen with our son. This is all because of the house till situation she wants to get away from you so fast I almost want to just give her what she wants but not at the risk of being railroaded financially. I just want to move on with my life. There is no love for this person right now anymore for me. I just want to get back to being independent again. I deserve better and she deserves better even though we communicate very poorly and we're on opposite end of the spectrum of our mindsets. I hope she finds what she's looking for and everything she ever hoped for and that she makes it a reality instead of a lost dream whatever that may be or look like. I don't ever want to hold anyone back in life. But I am not getting in her way and she thinks I am. Her choices is what got her to this unhappiness and this state, and my choices as well. it's hard to believe that I took the wrong person but I think I did and I think we seriously did have some compatibility issue since day one but there was enough love there to overlook them for the last 10 years. When we were first dating we used to have a rule to never go to bed angry. I was so cool and composed back then. I wanted to work really hard at the relationship too. My complacency in the last couple of years is what got us here. I'm not a bad guy and I'm not a monster. But I don't put up with bull$hit and I got a little bit of a temper like most men. I'm kind of ultra sensitive about my feelings circumstances and Communications and being misunderstood. I'm getting better at regulating them though. I love God and Jesus and I have a lot of faith in them that's what I asked for a we've delivered if I have enough of it but I really think that's because people have free will and their experiences are so different that this marriage is not coming back from the brink I don't think it ever will. But I will do my best to be a better me and learn from my mistakes. I don't know how all of you guys hold out for so long to fight all the legal stuff the back-and-forth the affairs, etc. You guys have tremendous fortitude and patience. Once certain lines are crossed with me and the trust is eroded that badly There's No Going Back. It's just better to move on

IH After reading your last post I feel like we married twins. What you wrote I could have written word for word. How hey can�t find their own happiness, that they are constantly chasing it and also making us out to be the villian. That our m problems was all my fault and they did nothing wrong. Even what you wrote about the gym. I would always ask my w to go and she would always say she hated it. Guess what she started to do once we separated, yep go to the gym. Same with the house she never took care of the house. I did most of it which was fine, but when I asked her she would get so mad that I asked her to put the dishes in the dish washer. I guess there is nothing we can do, they have to go through this mental turmoil by themselves. And maybe oneday they will wake up and realize what they lost. But by then we could be gone. It�s sad that they are so lost and don�t realize what they are doing. Everything is based on emotions. Not logic.

This is what I posted last time. Not sure if it came though.

Got a bunch of emails regarding date swaps with S1, mediator comparisons and what works for us with scheduling. Replied back short and concise. Tonight is my night with S1. She wanted to discuss those things with me when I got home, so I waited for her to initiate. Watched S1 and threw in my ear phones and started jamming. She mentioned she wanted to go over those things. So I gave her my attention. We talking about MOU'S lawyers, the process, rates, redi, time i need, etc. She could tell I was detached after she could sense I was ok with divorce, initiating it, etc. She could tell this time I was ok with it all, and just wanted to get down to business as soon as possible. She can tell now im indifferent, lost in my music, and my own world. Getting ready for my next band practice.
, etc. She knows once she can't emotionally affect me, she has lost me.

Then a few funny things happened. She orders me Chinese for dinner. I accept. Then she started asking me about S1 and week end upstate and what was going on up there last weekend. (S1 and Bro and I had a great time hiking riding quads, etc.) I only took off my ear phones only when she had a question, otherwise paid her no mind. Then on my night tonight she decided to go for ice cream, puts on perfume, takes S1 with her, and asks me if I want to come? I politefully decline.

Its weird. Im totally cool with this right now. I don't want her back, I can't go back. I won't go back unless it's on my terms from all the damage caused. I look forward everyday to get settled in my place in a few months and jammin, Getting back into great routines, etc. I doubt she will ever look back, but if she ever does. Its going to be on my terms for all the selfishness I have had to bear witness to the last 10 months, with all accountability on me and none on her. A part if me is sad, but glad at the same time to be losing her, because mistakes and all I've made, I still know my worth to me. We'll see? Time will tell. Ill keep everyone posted on the mediation proceedings and divorce proceedings to come. Cany wait for ny next band practice.

Funny story....Dude. She literally brought me a shot of ice cream when she returned....You ever see those little tiny minicups? The kind that they feed to like a two year old? She knows I usually get the Oreo blizzard. Just X you got me a mini blizzard which was chocolate chip cookie dough and vanilla. I just gave her the look like..."Are you kidding me?" Then we both laughed and she went on and on and on about how much she paid for this little shot of ice cream. Maybe she was tight on money? I was polite and grateful and thank her for it it anyway. I kind of did a Rodney Dangerfield Easy Money.... You know the scene where he's on a diet and it's his first day as wife brings him like all mini versions of like sausages and eggs, and he goes to his daughter and says "Melinda I can't finish all my eggs... You want some of my eggs?" So I did that shtick with my son jokingly..."S1 I can't finish all my ice cream?..... You want some of my ice cream?" And I just shared my shot of ice cream with him.
She went on and on again about how much it wasn't worth it cost for that little shot that she might as well just gotten a small. But she made sure to get herself a 30 ounce tall blizzard.

Also recently she went out to a meeting for another dietary program call trim life. This'll probably be her hundred program that she subscribes to but never has the discipline to follow through with to make Lifestyle Changes. I'm curious to see if this one takes for her, especially when she still ordering takeout food constantly pizza and ice cream. Nail appointments have increased from biweekly to weekly, she puts on perfume and makeup now just to go grocery shopping, is wearing hot bright lipstick, just for other random errands, and again phone usage sting and Facebook Messenger has significantly increased. New clothes purchases, underwear bathing suits and other stuff, is putting up more and more inspirational quotes on Facebook on self-worth, etc.. She never did these things when we were even dating. She is wearing perfume that I would have preferred her to wear all throughout our marriage that she would have considered and called stripper perfumes, that smell sweet and appealing. I still don't see any signs of an active EA/PA. Not that it's any of my business anymore. But I remember a while ago my wife always said women never doll themselves up just for themselves, they do it to get other men, or compete with other women. She always used to blame women's insecurities and confidence about themselves on the sex appeal to attract other guys, that women go through all of this trouble just to get them. I've always intuitively known this since my early twenties. These are all just funny observations to me. People typically do reinvent themselves and try to appear more confident externally especially after a breakup. In her case it is weight loss surgery she's never followed through with, new clothes makeup and perfumes new purses new mani-pedis a whole bunch of new makeup products new deodorant another self care products too. Whether she is doing this to feel more confident on herself, or doing it to attract other men who knows but it is funny to watch. It's comical watching some of the 180s and lifestyle changes that you wish would have happened while you were together, and you start question why and who they're doing it for? This is why you believe none of what they say only half of what they do. And pay attention to their actions and not their words.

A couple of days ago after a serious conversation about divorce when it came to the 1% unsureity of it, she said something along the lines of "If only you could read my mind what I am thinking." When I brought up my band practice after that. She projected onto me that once my buddy and I get it going on the road and start doing gigs, that I'm probably going to be hitting up a lot of groupies. Because she knows I'm such a good singer and I do have sex appeal in that area. She also went on to ask that if I get involved with anyone, to let her know. More projection? Possibly. Its all pretty comical how people make outward changes right before your eyes during a breakup over months, or when tgere is possibly another person involved, and some things they don't change, and some things they do. Makes you wonder if a leopard can change its spots? And if the emporer, or emporess really has no clothes? Just food for thought.

IH, don't put in ear buds if she's trying to have a serious convo with you. Give her your full attention. Listen and validate. It's very disrespectful to listen to music while someone is trying to talk to you.

Regarding her diets, her eating habits, what she's posting on FB, her perfume, her underwear, WHO CARES. Her circus, her monkeys.

Quote

She projected onto me that once my buddy and I get it going on the road and start doing gigs, that I'm probably going to be hitting up a lot of groupies.

That's a temp check. Now THAT would have been a good time to smile and put your earbuds back in.

LH : "IH, don't put in ear buds if she's trying to have a serious convo with you. Give her your full attention. Listen and validate. It's very disrespectful to listen to music while someone is trying to talk to you."

Gave her my full attn. when necessary. Otherwise did my own thing. She watched her tv. So all is good.. As far as the rest. I don't care... Just a behavior observation. I like to learn signs when people are pulling away or fooling around for next time in case I ever see it again in an R. It is a pretty common occurance. That's all. And I did actually smirk and put my ear buds back in during the groupie comment.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

LH : "IH, don't put in ear buds if she's trying to have a serious convo with you. Give her your full attention. Listen and validate. It's very disrespectful to listen to music while someone is trying to talk to you."

Gave her my full attn. when necessary. Otherwise did my own thing. She watched her tv. So all is good.. As far as the rest. I don't care... Just a behavior observation. I like to learn signs when people are pulling away or fooling around for next time in case I ever see it again in an R. It is a pretty common occurance. That's all. And I did actually smirk and put my ear buds back in during the groupie comment.

Something strikes me odd about your response. Like you took offense to my comments. If so then you need to do some digging and ask yourself why you are offended, because usually that means there's something there that struck close to home.

Looking back at the previous page I noticed you said this:

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

That's my biggest problem is pride, stubborness and I try not to be reactive and vindictive

Yeah, I am definitely getting that vibe from your response. Just something to think about.

EDIT- time for a new thread as well!

No. Just simply stating i gave her my full attention when necessary. I only quoted you about the ear bud thing because the event didn't occur the way you may have perceived it from the way I conveyed it my message here. That's all. Wasn't being rude to her in any way. And wasn't offended from your suggestion. Why would I take offense to a good suggestion from you on here? Also? Why would you perceive from the way I write that I was offended by your suggestion? I think we are both reading into this too much.

Was im a hurry to get my response our cause of work.

No offense taken AS ;-) Just curious why it was perceived that way? I was short and in a hurry because of work. New thread started

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2859485#Post2859485