Separated WAW p.3 - DivorceBusting.com

Continuing old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2852332&#Post2852332

Hey LH, IHC and Neffer thanks for the replies, you guys are absolutely correct about this �family� trip to Disneyland being cake eating. I�ve done well so far about not doing family things with wife but this is a big fck up obviously. The trip was planned pretty last minute and I agreed to go after not enough thought and without talking to you guys on here unfortunately. I�ve already bought my hotel room and plane ticket so I�m going to be going haha. I am looking forward to being there with my Son but yeah I should have just taken him by myself some other time.

So I guess I will just try to enjoy myself on this sort of vacation haha. I plan on just focusing on my Son and not thinking too much about interactions with W. I know you guys are really against me going but if anyone has some pointers on dealing with my W during this cake eating trip it would be appreciated. Obviously I�m going to treat her like an amusement park worker and be friendly but brief.

IHC that�s so hypocritical of her to say it�s good your S is so young he won�t remember the state of your relationship but she still wants him to experience you guys acting as a family haha. It makes no sense. If she actually wanted son to have memories of you all as a family maybe she should have stuck around and worked through the problems. It just shows how up and down they can be. Almost seems like they have no clue what they want and there is no logic to their thought process.

Other than that GAL is going well. Still working our a lot. Gained to my weight goal that I have struggled reaching for the past two years. It�s interesting that this BD event that shakes up our lives can help us to improve in many other areas of our lives. Gotta look for the silver lining in this all. Making a lot of new friends and most days I�m feeling really good about things. Sure there�s a day here and there where I am angry/sad but they are becoming far less frequent.

Just want to briefly thank everyone on this forum. I was miserable around BD and if I hadn�t found this forum and DB, I have no doubt I would be far worse off than I am today. This forum is such a great resource to see that we are not alone and we are not the only ones going through this. Everything will be okay, R or not.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Ive done well so far about not doing family things with wife but this is a big fck up obviously. The trip was planned pretty last minute and I agreed to go after not enough thought and without talking to you guys on here unfortunately. Ive already bought my hotel room and plane ticket so Im going to be going haha. I am looking forward to being there with my Son but yeah I should have just taken him by myself some other time.

Can you cancel the flight without penalty, like on Southwest Airlines? Or use the flight another time and pay a change fee? Can you cancel the hotel room or transfer it to another time when just you and S could go? You don't have to do this trip if you don't want to.

I went to Disney with my oldest when he was 3 and it was not much more than a very expensive photo session. I get your dilemma, that you don't want to miss the experience, but it is damn expensive for what you get even with older kids. Cost aside I think you are getting good advice from the vets to sit this one out.

Hey Gekko thanks for the advice, I possibly could have but it�s too late now I am here haha. It wasn�t that I didn�t want to go just that I didn�t really want to go with W. I fckin love Disney land and have had fun so far. Feeling pretty detached so I feel like I�ve been able to be here without problem. Sure it�s cake eating by my W but I�m enjoying myself and not worrying about our interactions so whatever.

I�ll do an update on the first day of the trip. In the airport W asked me to get a drink with her. I agreed. While we were sitting she saw a mark on my neck and was convinced it was a hickey. She didn�t get straight batshit crazy but she started questioning me loudly at this very public place. The barrage included �who are you dating. Is it a girlfriend or something casual? Is it one person or multiple?� And so on. To this I replied. �We are in public and I�m not having this conversation right now.� As she continued I said �I�m not discussing my personal life with you.�

She wasn�t happy with me denying her information on my personal life and gave me the silent treatment the rest of the night. Fine by me. When we arrived, I immediately went out and did some GAL, even made a few friends while out and about.

Today at Disney Land was fine. I could tell that W was pissed and her mind was racing about if I had a girlfriend or whatever. But I�m at the point where I don�t really care. I focused on my S and had a good time.

Throughout the day there were three separate occasions where W started interrogation about my personal life. Many of the same questions as before but this time ramped up with �I know you�re dating one of my friends�. I denied but it was like she was convinced I was. So weird and I dont know why she is so certain that I�m dating her friend. She also started saying �I deserve to know what�s going on in your life, we have a kid together.� I replied that �you do not deserve to know what�s going on in my life because we aren�t together anymore.�

It got pretty crazy at one point. Whenever she would question me I just started replying, I�m not talking about this with you. Eventually she said �I�m going to post a picture of you and me together on Instagram and see how your girlfriend likes that.� Totally crazy haha.

There was a lot of sexual tension it felt like and W was definitely pursuing me, touching me many times throughout the day. There was some flirting on both sides. She kept this front up that she didn�t want anything to do with me but her actions were far the opposite.

More later as the trip isn�t over yet but I�ve felt pretty good so far. Been real positive and am enjoying the extra time with my son. Getting better at detaching too I guess. Thanks

Welp prepare the 2x4s lol. So the trips over, I�m home now. Lots of developments last night.

So in the evening W asked me to get a drink with her and go on some rides. 2x4 incoming I know I should have declined but idk I felt like it. So we go get some drinks and pretty quick she dives into R talk. Another 2x4 I know I should shut these R talks down but when I have alcohol in me my DBing goes out the window lol. Anyway she dives back into who are you dating, is it serious, is it one person or multiple people yada yada. It was a long talk and at one point she said �well if it�s serious then we should just divorce�. Idk if she is making things up or not but according to her, her texting me pictures of our son and asking me to stop by her classroom when I pick son up are her ways of trying to reconnect with me. She made a point that I wasn�t even trying due to my brief replies and such. I know that is the DB way but maybe I need to try being less brief with her?

So yeah I didn�t give her a straight up answer about my personal life and I reinforced it wasn�t her business any longer. We ended up leaving and then going souvenir shopping which was weird because after such a serious R talk the mood went back to playful and there was a lot of flirting. We have a really great banter I would call it and it was just like old times oddly enough.

We went on some rides and W was showed a lot of pursuit. We held hands multiple times which hasn�t happened since god knows when. Hit me with those 2x4s I�m ready lol. After some rides we decided to go get another drink. Once again W dove into R talk. This time it was all about my failures and such in the relationship. At one point she said �it was a lot of little things�. To which I replied �I don�t think it�s right to leave someone over little things�. I really hope this next part was just her seeing the whole R as negative because if it was reality I would feel terrible: she said that over the 8 odd years we were together she never felt loved. She felt that I always just settled for her because she was there and it was convenient. This hurt me a lot because that wasn�t my intention at all but currently that�s her perception of our whole R which s*cks..

After R talk we started heading back to our hotel (separate rooms). We went out the wrong entrance and ended up like a 30 minute walk from our hotel lol. We joked and flirted the whole way back. More hand holding and piggy backing. I know I know force feeding her cake and what not. We got back to the hotel and I asked if she wanted to come to my room for a few. She agreed. We had s*x for the first time in probably 4 months.

This morning she told me �nothing happened� in regards to us having s*x. A bit more flirting on the trip home. Pretty pleasant for the most part. She also mentioned that I shouldn�t get any ideas about what happened. She�s playing it off like she didn�t want to do that but it�s pretty clear with all the flirting and jealousy over my possible girlfriend that she was pursuing me.

Our interactions were ok. I tried to make it clear that I�m not a back up plan and that I�m moving on with my life. I think this is why she started pursuing so hard. Not really sure where to go from here but if she was being truthful then maybe I need to try being less brief with her? Ok ready for the 2x4s.

Hey everyone,

So I�m struggling right now. Part of me thinks I should pull way back and not reply to her texts or anything. But then on our trip W mentioned that she had been trying to reconnect with me through texting pictures of our S and stuff like that. She had the impression that my short replies were rude even if I didn�t intend for them to be rude. So yeah not sure if I should be a little more conversational with her. My distancing in our R was a complaint of hers so idk I don�t feel that going less contact is for the best. But it still doesn�t seem like she has any intention of working on the R so yeah here we are.

H,

Right now you�re plan b even though you keep saying you�re not. As long as you keep feeding her cake this is the dance you�re to keep doing.

You went on the trip and solidified your plan b status and now you are paying the consequences of it. DB is hard and until you determine that you value yourself too much to put up with this bs, unfortunately you�re going to suffer.

Hey thanks LH,
Yeah I guess you�re right. Idk it just feels hard because of my distance during the R I feel that I have to show a 180 of that. So yeah it�s like I want to show her I can be emotionally available. But at the same time it doesn�t matter to her anymore. Yeah I think that her actions showed that she was worried about losing her plan b when she thought I had a girlfriend. Need to step back more I think.

One thing that can be helpful is to go back and re-read your own thread in its entirety. Pay attention to your own posts and how many times you have acknowledged that W is eating cake. You've been feeding her a lot of cake, none more than the Disney trip where she probably developed diabetes from all the cake you fed her there.

I would also pay special attention to the vets posts, in particular LH's posts on your thread. Just read what LH has been saying.

You have the ability to be a great DBer. First you have to close down your cake bakery.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

But then on our trip W mentioned that she had been trying to reconnect with me through texting pictures of our S and stuff like that.

H, does that sound like good, solid, quality reconnecting there? Or just more WAS spew? I know what I think

Quote

She had the impression that my short replies were rude even if I didn�t intend for them to be rude. So yeah not sure if I should be a little more conversational with her.

I would continue to keep it brief. Send her a message (through your actions) that you're not here to comply with whatever crazy terms of engagement she thinks are suitable. You do your thing and leave her to her mess.

Hahaha Gekko you�re right. I think LH has told me I�m feeding her cake like 50 times. My trouble area forsure.

AS no that doesn�t sound like quality reconnecting. Yeah it�s just that she was so honest when things were ok in the R so I have the habit of believing her even though I know things are different now. I suppose if she really wants to reconnect she would let me know.

I guess in my mind I keep thinking that if we hang out and I allow the cake eating or whatever she will see my positive changes and maybe see R as an option. When she told me how she felt about my distance during the R I felt really guilty.

I feel that if I deny her requests to do stuff together she will see it as more of the same because of my distance. A little clusterfcked in the head lately haha. Really appreciate your guys views.

Hallzy, I feel the same way as you. My wife says that she felt lonely during our marriage because I didn't come home and talk to her while she made dinner. Now she tells me she needs space, but that I should also cook dinner with her. It is hard for me to know if I should correct my past mistakes or realize that she is in a different place now and just wants SPACE!

H,

I'm going to be honest with you. You have been married for a year and had a baby. This is suppose to be the happiest and most exciting time of your life. Instead she decides she's not happy and moves out. At this time, imo you need to move on and create a great life for you and your son. IF and this is a big IF your W ever decides she will do the work necessary for you to give her another chance you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

Right now she has no respect for you and is looking for another long term option.

Show her you are done with the bs and I guarantee you will see some changes in her.

Give her as much space as you can afford. She told you those things about feeling ignored after the fact, not because she wanted to work on things with you and change them, but because she is done and it justifies her actions to say her "hit list" of reasons to you. Cook around her, but not together with her or for her, unless she does it for you first. Return the favor if she does you one. Cook for yourself and kids. If she wants to make convo, listen, validate, etc. allow it. Took me 7 months to just realize that dynamic and interactions should consist of even give and take. No more, no less. You give what you get. You get distance, you give it, etc, Nothing is given away for free, not your time, your emotions, your labor, or division of things, resources, kids, etc.

Was recalling from 7 months ago. W said "Im not leaving you, just want space and IHS." Well after I reclaimed the MBR that changed into "I want to sell the house and be seperated, and divide all assets and responsibilities." Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.They can change their minds on a dime for all different reasons, so you have to constantly adapt to the current sich and action, not the past ones. Sorry I was replying to Destroyed. Wrong thread

Hey Destroyd I feel you man, it makes me want to 180 on it but at this point idk if it will help.

LH thanks for the honesty, yeah it should be a happy time forsure. I guess she�s just throwing me breadcrumbs with the flirting and the s*x. When she was thinking I had moved on and had a girlfriend was when she pursued me the most. So it makes sense.

IHC haha that�s okay I feel your post applies here too. She has said that hit list multiple times since BD and yeah I guess she�s saying that to make herself feel better and more justified about leaving. Am I just supposed to validate these hit lists or shut them down as I�ve heard it enough?

Thanks all

Hello hello, just a little journaling.

So since trip, W has texted me everyday. Pretty unimportant things. Been busy with GAL still. Feels like I don�t have time to stop and sit down for 5 minutes but it�s good.

From what W was telling me recently that if she isn�t with our S then she is going out drinking. She used to be a real homebody and barely wanted to go out once a week. I also imagine she probably has her mom watched S sometimes so she can go out. Her mom is definitely an enabler. She also has not been hanging out with her old group of friends. They have expressed to me that they don�t support her decision so I imagine that�s why she has found a new group of friends.

I guess this might classify her as wayward now. After BD she was still a homebody and it seems that when we separated was when she started this new behavior. The things she is doing are out of character. I recall Sandi telling me that if she were to become WW that I should be far more firm with her. I think my goal now is to stop allowing the cake eating. I feel that I am doing well in all aspects but that.

Side note, over the past few weeks I have had multiple people say �you�re like a whole new man�, include my W. I think this relates to my 180s, especially changing my negative attitude/views on some things. Feels good knowing other people are seeing my positive changes as I try to be the best version of me.
Thanks!

Ah forgot to mention Father�s Day,
Got to spend time with S. W get me a pretty nice gift. She wrote a nice card that said �We love you� at the end. She expressed that if I didn�t like gift she would get me something different. As a 180 I acted pretty grateful and was genuinely grateful. A negative aspect of the old me was not showing thankfulness and I can recall many times W gave me a gift and I would act indifferent about it or even express dissatisfaction sometimes. Trying to 180 that.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Hey Destroyd I feel you man, it makes me want to 180 on it but at this point idk if it will help.

LH thanks for the honesty, yeah it should be a happy time forsure. I guess she�s just throwing me breadcrumbs with the flirting and the s*x. When she was thinking I had moved on and had a girlfriend was when she pursued me the most. So it makes sense.

IHC haha that�s okay I feel your post applies here too. She has said that hit list multiple times since BD and yeah I guess she�s saying that to make herself feel better and more justified about leaving. Am I just supposed to validate these hit lists or shut them down as I�ve heard it enough?

Thanks all

I have made the mistakes of apologizing and justifying too often and frequently in my sich. I think the point on how to handle "the justifications" list is. Address it and apologise once and only once if possible. Don't argue, just listen. Change what you have the control and power to change. Your words mean nothing to them, and your actions mean everything. Now if I could only take theirs and my own advise.. Lol.. Slowly.. One day at a time.

I feel ya IHC I need to work on not getting sucked into hearing the hit list for the 20th time. I want her to know I hear and understand her feelings but jeez I�ve heard it too much already.

Just on here to vent real quick. Found out W is out bowling and going on a beer bike tonight. This annoys me because throughout much of our R she denied sooooo many requests of mine to go out and do things. Driving an hour to see my dad who has taken us on multiple vacations: �no I don�t want to sit in the car that long.� Want to go to my hockey game that lasts all of an hour: �oh no I do t want to take the time to put make up on I just want to relax.� Want to go try this new food place? �Oh no I�d rather just stay home.�

After years of me getting denied going out and doing fun things I guess I stopped asking. Then a few weeks ago on one of her hit lists talks she says, �I want someone who will take me on adventures.� I didn�t say this in response but wtf I�ve been trying to get you out of the house for years!!

And then I find out tonight she�s out doing all these fun outgoing things after years of being such a homebody that she won�t go out with our closest friends more than once a month?! Drives me fcking crazy. I know I should be at a point of detachment at this point where I don�t care but sht I�m annoyed as fck right now. Figured it�s better to type it out on here than annoy my friends with it. Thanks...

Hahaha okay here we go I�m about to sound like a basket case. Typing this before I go to bed so maybe I will cool off when I wake up. But I�m pissed. A lot of you vets have been telling me she�s just dragging me along as back up plan. She is cake eating and I recently found out she is out partying most nights she doesn�t have our S. But for all I know she gets mommy the enabler to watch my Son while she goes out partying.

I thought there were many improvements in our R before the separation began. We lived together still for roughly 2 months after BD and things with her went from cold and withdrawn to flirty and cuddling. We were sexual and even made out the night before she was to move out. This gave me hope. I thought that my 180s had started to thaw her heart and that she was seeing that I was capable of change.

The history: I am not a nice guy. I consider myself alpha physically and mentally. During R often times it was my way or the highway. Often times when she asked for favors/ expressed her needs I viewed them as her trying to gain control/take power and would usually deny her requests. I was an [censored]. In my mind things weren�t that bad but recently W let me know that she felt like I settled for her because she was there and convenient. Now I don�t think I was a terrible H, but my affection for her decreased significantly when her mom moved in with us to help with expenses related to newborn son. In her mind things have been bad for years, but this is untrue. I took care of many things and I realize that in the last year since Son was born, including death of my father, I started doing many little things wrong. I admit this and can fix those things and I already have 180d on them all.

Currently I feel she has attraction for me. Our recent trip to Disneyland had her pursuing me hard because she thought I was moving on and had a new girlfriend which I don�t but I didn�t let her know that. We had s*x for this first time in 3ish months which was a goal of mine. After trip where we got along quite well I asked her to get dinner/drinks with me alone without baby (per sandis advice). She declined. She has expressed wanted to spend family time with me and S for 4th of July but due to her declining of my dinner invitation this seems to be obvious cake eating. Because of how I treated her when M was okay, I have allowed a lot of cake eating as a 180 of sorts. This I have done against the advice of many vets here.

I told my wife a few weeks after BD that a PA is a deal breaker for me as I will not have a W who sleeps with other men. I found no evidence of PA or EA but now that we are separated what is stopping her. I just read some advice that says the main reason for S is for the WAW to date/pa with other people.

With her new found hobby of going out drinking and partying with a new group of friends I find it almost impossible for her to not be partaking in PA. Which I said before is a deal breaker. I was under the impression that because things turned around a bit before Separation and how things went during trip to Disney land that progress was being made. I think this was delusional of me. My impulsive instinct is to file for D immediately. Maybe I will feel different in the morning but I�d like to have some input from you guys.

PA is deal breaker. W is separated and out partying. Logically it�s safe to say she is committing PA. Not to sound cocky but I have received a lot of attention from other woman now that we are S, including 2 prior close friends of my W. Not that I have acted on this but I�m not at all worried about my chances being single.

I am angry thinking that my W is PAing and although she wouldn�t tell me and it would be hard for me to find out but if I knew for certain she was, I would file immediately. So that�s where we are at. My gut instinct tells me to file. I know my Sitch is very young but my gut instinct is to file now that I am getting the idea that she was stringing me along while she looks for another man...

Maybe someone can talk me down from the ledge. Okay rant over thanks all.

H,

Just so you know chasing a woman who has rejected you is not alpha it�s very beta.

It�s honesty time. There�s a 99% chance your w has slept with another man so since it�s a deal breaker what is your next move? When she�s asking you if you�re sleeping with other w. She�s projecting.

Look man normal women don�t separate after having a baby and 1 year of marriage. You guys are young and most likely made a mistake. I believe you when you say you can get other women.

Focus on being a great dad and learn what it takes to have a great relationship. Without serious work on her part she�s only going to bring you pain.

You�re so young and have your entire life ahead of you.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

I feel ya IHC I need to work on not getting sucked into hearing the hit list for the 20th time. I want her to know I hear and understand her feelings but jeez I�ve heard it too much already.

Just on here to vent real quick. Found out W is out bowling and going on a beer bike tonight. This annoys me because throughout much of our R she denied sooooo many requests of mine to go out and do things. Driving an hour to see my dad who has taken us on multiple vacations: �no I don�t want to sit in the car that long.� Want to go to my hockey game that lasts all of an hour: �oh no I do t want to take the time to put make up on I just want to relax.� Want to go try this new food place? �Oh no I�d rather just stay home.�

After years of me getting denied going out and doing fun things I guess I stopped asking. Then a few weeks ago on one of her hit lists talks she says, �I want someone who will take me on adventures.� I didn�t say this in response but wtf I�ve been trying to get you out of the house for years!!

And then I find out tonight she�s out doing all these fun outgoing things after years of being such a homebody that she won�t go out with our closest friends more than once a month?! Drives me fcking crazy. I know I should be at a point of detachment at this point where I don�t care but sht I�m annoyed as fck right now. Figured it�s better to type it out on here than annoy my friends with it. Thanks...

If you read back on my sich I dealt with this too. It drove me fu#king insane. Every time I would ask my w to go out on Friday night "No I'm too tired from work" when we bought the house seven years ago I wanted to live in the country in rural and grow produce., live the simple minimalist. She wanted Suburbia and convenience to allow access to all things. now she wants to live in a cabin in the woods and grow produce and be a beekeeper. I asked her where the hell were these desires 7 years ago? She said she wasn't ready yet. I bought her a pistol two or three years ago and I've asked her numerous times to come to the range to get proficient on it. She would always have some excuse never to want to go. Now she wants to go there to the range with my brother's ex-girlfriend was also divorced. when she wanted to have her family and company over it was okay. when I want to have my friends or family or company over she wanted her space and I was forced to go to the retreat to the backyard. when I wanted to go out and try a new restaurant to go out dancing. More excuses of " no thanks not tonight I'm too tired" what I want to work hard on the yard and the projects around the house, she wanted to gleefully escape and go out on a whim and not keep her commitments, then blame it all on me that I was antisocial, one it was anything further from the truth. All the things I wanted to do early on now she wants to do away from me.

Eventually I stopped asking too. If you look at them very carefully Halsey it's a depression. They fall into a depression, then they no longer want or need you, then all the sudden they want to have all these life experiences that you wanted to have in the first place. They also try and blame you for it. If it wasn't for double standards they have no standards at all. I complained a lot about this early on in my sich to my younger brother, because I was like WTF too. It's a depression of them wanted to live their life on their own terms. My brother said it's not that she didn't want to do these things she just didn't want to do them with you. Which makes perfect sense. I've seen this pattern repetitively with every relationship that I have ended. they get bored stuck and depressed and they start looking for purpose and meaning in their life through new experiences, new men, new friends, new travel new vacations etc. it's like the same man they wanted you to be when you were first courting them they denied all throughout the marriage. Then when it came time not only to do the real work but also have some real experiences they denied you of them and then went and explored them independently on their own away from you.

it is human nature to never be satisfied especially when you do not have a strong sense of self principles and values. They are looking for their tribe so to speak. Let them go and let it go otherwise it's just going to annoy you in Anger you. you will keep continually asking yourself why now? it almost has the same effect of you changing before their eyes and them getting angry at you for changing too little too late

LH 19 is also right about the projection. My w immediately upon separation tried to set the rules and terms of Engagement that we would not date during the separation, and asked me if I was seeing anyone. She also stated that if I slept with anyone that that would be the deal-breaker. I never even brought up the subject she did. That was my red flag right there that something happens but I never got proof on it. She also said things that I hope you find someone that's the more compatible with you, and started romanticizing scenarios in the future where we would both attend barbecues Divorced with other people and be okay with it. Most of the time Halsey it's in their nature to grasp another hand before letting go of another, or what they call Monkey branching. Most of them do this from my research and my own personal experiences after five relationships. it is the only logical explanation of why they would turn cold overnight and then literally try to push you not only out of their heart but also out of their lives and out the door. they hide it very well for the sake of being slut shamed as a woman in our society. They want all the new experiences all the fuzzies and tingly, all the new sense of purpose, and new men as well. My w always used to play for kid around with me and accuse me of cheating. I never took it seriously, because I was never that insecure, until I got bomb dropped. Now I wonder if she was projecting that as well This is a part of the depression, and lack of sense of self, whether they are cheating or not and whether they are projecting or not. We have a one-and-a-half-year-old and she separating from me as well. Most sane people have told me that this is not normal. But of course the W blames it all on me for whatever made up reasons. I say whatever let them learn the consequences of their actions they will eventually maybe I'll be happy and maybe they won't I really don't care it's their life let them live it. As long as my son isn't adversely affected I get to raise in my way on my time

Hey LH and IHC thanks for the advice,

LH apart from the 1st week after BD I don�t believe I�ve done much chasing. Cake eating yes but not initiated by me. I still feel the same as last night and I think I will speak with my lawyer Monday. Yes I understand it is most likely projection.

IHC she has said things along the lines of, �I don�t think we can ever date people because they would be jealous of how we get along�, most likely her just trying to control. Looking back now I remember a few times pre BD where she would ask me �who are you texting?�, and went through my phone looking for things to find. We never did this before and I think you are right that she is projecting what she was guilty of doing.

She made a comment a week ago that �if you�re having sex with OP that�s fine but if you�re seeing someone seriously let�s just file�, this I think was projection of her sleeping with people and at the same time trying to influence me to not date anyone seriously and stay as her back up plan.

IHC yeah it�s crazy and frustrating that they start behaving in ways we wanted after they leave. I guess you�re right and they just wanted to do that alone or with someone else.

Just kind of fed up at this point. I�ve had hope for the past few months and I know the S hasn�t been long but this type of relationship isn�t okay with me and isn�t healthy. I feel I was hoping to see progress but am now just being strung along and she tries to find her new man/get to know new men.

Thanks..

I guess my next question is filing vs mediation, we don�t have really any shared assets, maybe just debt and we have a separation agreement in place, what are the positives of mediation vs filing? Thanks

Hey hey just a little updating,

Had a great weekend with my boy, took him to see my brothers and then had a bbq in the evening with some friends. Think I�ve done a great job improving myself and my attitude, have 180d on a lot of my negative behaviors and many people are noticing and making positive comments about my changes. Feels good. Been dating a lot, getting to know new groups of friends, still crazy busy with GAL.

Got lawyer appointment later this week. I would like to learn more about mediation but I�m guessing my lawyer will push for court as that is how they make money? Part of me doesn�t want to file because I don�t feel like wasting my time and kind of want my W to do the dirty work. Going to think on this more.

So W had deactivated her facebook when we separated. I noticed Sunday morning she had popped back up and must have re activated. Side note I took off my married status from view a few months ago. I noticed she still had it public that she was married to me. Not thinking into it. I immediately blocked her lol. Not hoping for a reaction just not interested in seeing her social media.

A few hours later she called me. I was busy and didn�t answer. Didn�t call back. Later that day I dropped son off. W instantly jumped into �omg did you deactivate your FB, did you block me?� I replied that yes I had blocked her lol. Anyway we had good conversation and she initiated touch. More pursuit behavior/questions from her. Handle well I believe. W walked me to my car lol? After I had left W started texting me a bit about a funny story. I ended conversation after a few messages.

So I decided to really try to focus on LRT. I reread it and was a bit confused. Michelle specifically says that during LRT you should accept all invitations to do �family time� with the WA spouse and child. So I�m just wondering why the general opinion on the forum is that cake eating or family time should be avoided at all costs? Just looking for clarification thanks.

H,

Mainly because Michele doesn�t distinguish between WAW and WW but we do you have a wayward on your hands that is why we say no family time.

You�re all over the board my friend. You�re going to see a lawyer to file then your doing LTR. Still trying to get reactions from her using FB. Now looks like you�re looking for an excuse to serve her cake.

Oh yeah and btw your dating while married. This is exactly why IMO most people should wait until they are 30 to get married.

Until you truly decide you�re done with the BS I can�t see this nonsense ending.

Hey LH, thanks for the replies as always!

Ah okay thanks for clarifying, yeah that confused me a little. So if she was WaW family time is fine but WW is no family time.

All over the board yes, this whole experience has been a lot of ups and downs. While I�m definitely better off than I was around BD I still have days of indecisiveness.

Yes I understand that I should be doing LRT which is why I wanted to reread that section. No, not looking for excuses to serve cake but when I read what Michelle said about family time I was a little confused because I haven�t seen a single post on here that approves of family time when Michelle herself approves in some situations I guess.

Had no intention of a reaction in blocking W like I previously wrote lol. I decided it would help with detachment if I don�t see what she�s up to popping up on my phone? Thought that made a good amount of sense.

A goal of mine was to meet a lot of new people and that�s a big reason for my dating. Rest assured it�s all just for fun and I have no intention of being in another relationship. Also, other advice I�ve received is to treat this MR as if it its over, so that�s what I�m doing.

And are you recommending I file for divorce?

No I am more a less challenging you on you words. You had previously indicated a PA was a deal breaker. I think we are both in agreement there has been at least one PA.

Gotcha LH,

Yeah so I�ve been flip flopping about filing the past few days. I remember reading another vets advice that if you are flip flopping on a decision that you need to take time and really consider if it is what you want.

In regards to PA, I am fairly positive there was no PA when we were still living together. I am 50/50 on if there was an EA.

Now that we aren�t living together I view us as not in a relationship. Legally yes we are still married but idealistically we are not even in a relationship. This is just my opinion of the sitch. Yes you are almost certainly right she has since moving out most likely been seeing OP. But I have also.

So for now just going to focus on LRT and stopping the cake eating as she could be considered WW. Need to take some time and think about filing. Still uncertain if what that is what I really want.

Thanks LH.

H,

You can spin it any way you want but you�re in an open marriage. It�s not normal for people to be dating other people after being married for a year and having a new born. What are your core values?

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Yeah so I�ve been flip flopping about filing the past few days. I remember reading another vets advice that if you are flip flopping on a decision that you need to take time and really consider if it is what you want..

If you are uncertain, don't file.

For the legal stuff, there are options between mediation and full-on legal trial. You can try forms of mediation where each side has some legal representation.

I would say go to a L to learn about your options. Any L worth hiring would tell you don't file until you are absolutely certain.

Hey LH, yeah you�re right it�s not normal and believe me I wish I wasn�t in this situation, that�s why I�m here. The alternatives to what I�m doing are to file: which isn�t what I�m positive I want. Or to continue to DB and drop the dating that I�m doing. The dating is nothing serious and I have no intention of finding another relationship at the moment, I just enjoy meeting other people, learning their stories and interacting 1 on 1 with woman which I haven�t done any of really in the past 7 odd years due to R with W. I�ve also read other vets advise dating after separation as long as you are clear with OP you are not available for an R.

As for my core values I value loyalty highly and have empathy for others. During the 7 year R with my W I was approached on several occasions by girls at school, work place etc etc who wanted to be more than friends. Because of my loyalty to W I made it clear I wasn�t interested. I don�t mean to come across as bragging that I didn�t have an affair haha just an example.

I�ve mentioned before that my core values were aligned with my W and I kid you not 3 or 4 months before BD she said �I could never just give up, marriages are worth working on�. I�ve also already mentioned that 6 months before BD, W�s sister left a man who was physically and verbally abusive. I defended the sister for leaving such a terrible R while my W didn�t approve saying �it�s not right to just up and leave someone�. I cannot make this [censored] up haha.

So obviously her core values are gone with her waywardness. Maybe they will return one day but that is out of my control.

U, yes thanks. I�ve met with L previously but have almost no idea how mediation works. Seeing my L tomorrow just to understand more about the situation.

Short update: been NC with W for the past few days. Nothing to report lol. I�ve been thinking back a lot and am realizing how codependent W was due to her anxiety. It was always an issue if I wasn�t around to be her stability. With my busy GAL I believe this contributed to a lot of resentment with in her. I don�t believe she is doing IC or even looking inward at this point.

Hello hello,

So just wanted to run a script by you guys. I�ve been reading a lot of the guides of Sandis about WW. Now I believe my W is WW due to her personality changes, activity changes, new group of friends, abandoning old group of friends and resentment. Even though I did not have anything more than suspicion about OP before we separated I am aware it is likely that now separated there is OM.

I need to focus on being more firm with her and stopping all cake eating. I told you guys about her request that we do 4th of July as a family, but seeing how she is WW I need to deny this request. So I was considering different scripts for when she brings it up again. It is now NC day 4. NC as in she hasn�t talked or texted me at all and I�m not initiating.

Should I go the really firm script: No I will not be going because you are involved with OM. (Even though I have no idea or clue about OM)

Or not even mention OM: No I will not be going because we are no longer a family.

Any tips? Thanks!

How about sorry but I have other plans.

Short and sweet haha I like it. I�m expecting a lot of spew for declining but the cake eating has got to stop.

Originally Posted by LH19

How about sorry but I have other plans.

^^^ Standard generic reply. Learn it, use it, live it. The WW/WAW uses it, we use it, etc. Our GAL/IC/Family/Whatever affairs outside of Child Care and S logistics no longer concerns them, and vice versa. Keep em guessing. They will get curious, even if they don't say/state so.

Alrighty well just had a talk with W during child exchange. We were going over schedule and she asked about our plans together for the 4th of July. She was expecting some cake but will not get any.

W: so what are we doing together for the 4th
Me: I�ve got plans actually.
W:but I thought we were going to all go together
Me: I don�t want to do things as a family anymore.
W: but it�s important for S to know... (trailed off)
Me: that we are friends?
W: yes
Me: I have no intention of being your friend. Have a good one!

Walked away after that. I tried to say it as upbeat as I could and I don�t think I sounded harsh or mean. I know I should have probably made this a shorter convo but oh well. Didn�t really see her reaction but I guess it doesn�t matter! No more cake.

Thanks guys.

I actually think that was perfect! Now stick to it. You�re the cake nazi! No cake for you!

Just so you know she is going to test you so stay strong.

Thanks LH,
Test me to see if I will give her more cake? Temp checks?

It already seems like she uses son as an excuse to contact me. Even if it�s not important info about son she still sends it. Is my best response here to just not respond? That seems more like NC than LRT.

Thanks!

Only respond to questions concerning son.

You say you're alpha. An alpha's words are his truth. You stated you are not playing family anymore and do not want to be friends. Let's see if you can be congruent with your words.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Walked away after that. I tried to say it as upbeat as I could and I don�t think I sounded harsh or mean. I know I should have probably made this a shorter convo but oh well. Didn�t really see her reaction but I guess it doesn�t matter! No more cake.

Good! I don't think it could have been shorter, that was just right. Well done. Now like LH said it's important to stick to your guns. Your words and actions need to reaffirm that being friends is out of the question. I'm not saying be cold/ rude/ indifferent but she is going to test the boundaries and you've got to keep reinforcing what you said.

Thanks for the feedback boys,

So NC with W after that last exchange. Heard from a friend she has her M babysitting our S while she goes out drinking. Not surprised.

Had a date with a WAW. It made my blood boil. I kid you not she said, �I had everything I wanted. House, car. I just wasn�t into it anymore.� Blows my fckin mind how easily people give up on R these days. Spineless.

I don't see how people can view important people in their lives as disposable. I could never do that to anyone.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I don't see how people can view important people in their lives as disposable. I could never do that to anyone.

Its quite simple actually. Its because you are no longer important. They feel you didn't treat them as important when the M was still alive and somewhat healthy. Whether it is their feelings, and it is completely untrue, or their are partial half truths, mixed in with half lies of disillusionment. It is still their truth. Remember. Although we think we are right in our perceptions (Currently we are because we want to reconcile, and have learned what is right. .) We have to remember that for every finger we point at someone there are 3 pointing back at us. So examine carefully, acknowledge their patterns as well as our own. Its not that we are disposable to them, its that they are moving on. I know it violates our strongly held convictions of "For better for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, till death do us part."

Ask any WAH/WAW if they meant their vows, and they will most likely say that they meant it then, what no longer means now because their circumstances and feelings have changed. ? They have difficulties committing to other people and keeping them as well as difficulty committing to themselves.

I think it is the nature of a depressed person to view some people close to them mistakingly as disposable. I don't think they even see it that way. But we do because we are on the receiving end. They are just unhappy, subjected to circumstances, deceived by their feelings, and want to escape or pursue outside worldly, natural means of happiness, pleasure, purpose, independence, freedom, and escape. You see? They are in a spiritual prison. They think along the lines of. "If only I obtain my freedom, my independence, my next beau, my next R, my next achievement, my next goal, my next purpose, my next chapter of my life?" They won't ever see what they are doing through the lens of selfishness, they will always see it through the lens of self-improvement, and that is fine. Self care is fine within the right context. But their feelings change direction like the wind at any hour, and we must acknowledge this, recognize it, and let go of our death grip on it. Some do care if we hurt, but 99% of the time they care more about how they are going to save themselves, before they consider, sacrifice, care, and understand others. They have to fall to ever repent, so let them fall.

Destroyd, I couldn�t agree more. Tossed us away as if we were garbage. With our positive changes it will be their loss.

IHC wow man that was really insightful. I think in a lot of these situations the walk aways place way to much responsibility for their own happiness on their LBS. I saw a great quote from will smith the other day:

�Her happiness is not my responsibility. She should be happy and I should be happy individually. Then we come together and share our happiness. Giving someone responsibility to make you happy when you can�t do it yourself is selfish.�

This quote really spoke to me because during our whole R, I was happy. I found new hobby�s, interacted with friends often and was great at GAL. My W did none of these things and spent most of her days watching hours of reality tv after work. No goals, no hobby, very little interaction socially outside of work. But sure, I�m the reason she was unhappy. Bugs me that now we aren�t together she�s GAL but I cannot control others.

Just reading on here as I have an hour before my hockey game. So will do a little update. Since my no cake eating talk with W, there has only been a few texts regarding child exchange. I took a few hours to respond to her due to GAL. Don�t think she liked that lol.

My detachment is coming along well. I�m not really sad much anymore, but it definitely helps that I don�t see her often. My self improvement is going well. I have made so many new friends and get many comments about how different I am in a good way. Less negativity. Way more out going. Last night I wanted to go out with friends but they all decided to stay in. So I called a new friend I made last week and went out dancing. There was a huge group of girls celebrating a birthday. I started talking to them and ended up hanging out with them most of the night. Something I never would have done before BD, but that�s a huge goal of mine. Make new friends, learn more about others. Doing pretty well at it so far. Thanks all.

Hey boys,

Picked up my S today from Ws apartment. Lots of temp checking I think? Main thing she asked was, �So should we mediate soon? Have you thought about it more?�. I relied �I haven�t thought about it.� And left it at that. She has asked similar things almost on a weekly basis. Temp check I guess. Trying to stay away from R talks and such so I thought a vague brief reply was good. Before she moved out I used the �that�s not what I want but won�t stop you�. But after using it a few times I think she knows where I stand. Let me know if I should have responded differently.

We discussed S for a few minutes and logistics. She asked if I was out late last night. Gave a vague reply. She expressed that she was feeling sad. I validated. As I was getting ready to leave she brought up 4th of July again. She expressed that she wanted us to do something for the 4th as a family. Stuck to my guns and replied once again, �I do not want to do things as a family anymore because we are not a family anymore.� She replied that yes we still were a family even though we aren�t together. I replied that no, that�s not how it works. If we are not together, we are no longer a family. She then brought up another couple we know who split up but still did family things. I reinforced that I wasn�t interested in that and that if she didn�t want S for 4th of July then I would take him.

That was about it. Thanks all

H,

�Thanks but as I said I have plans�

There is no need to reiterate that you don�t want to play family. That just shows you�re still attached.

I think your exchanges should be quicker with you saying �sorry got to run�.

Unfortunately I think you�re going to be putting up with nonsense for awhile.

Thanks LH, will try to put that into practice. I said it once no need to say it again I guess. Yeah forsure she has been dragging out conversations about son. I need to work on just hitting the road and not listening to extended Son talk. LH is the best way to deal with the nonsense having shorter conversations? Thanks

So S school is closed for the week, therefore W has the week off. W agreed to watch S so I could work, so I had 2 interactions: pickup and drop off.

Drop off I went to Ws apartment door. She opened the door. I did not go in as I am trying to make our interactions shorter per LHs advice. She said come in, I didn�t. She then said �dumb� in regards to me not coming inside. I replied �I don�t have time I need to work�. She then said �you don�t want to come in and talk?� To which i said �no I gotta go� and left.

Pick up. She opened the door and asked me to come in because she was changing S diaper. Her mom was there and I had some brief friendly small talk with her. W mimicked something I said in a dumb voice. I replied �drop the attitude.�
After this I pretty much grabbed my S and started out the door. She tried to talk to me as I was leaving to which I replied briefly because I have places to go things to do. As I was walking out the door she said, �you�re being weird. Why are you being so short with me?�. I shortly replied �I�m not.� And left.

She tries to drag me up conversations and to get me to hang around talking. She also uses S a lot as a reason for contact. Working on reducing the amount of time spent talking to her as I was advised.

After some of her rudeness and disrespect I had a thought. For the first time i had the thought �I don�t want a relationship with this person�. I get that I did things wrong in the R, but nothing significant enough to deserve this much resentment and disrespect. I loved my W when she was a caring, thoughtful and morally right person. I do not love the person she is right now. Will my old W every return? I don�t know. But if she doesn�t return, I don�t want an R with the person she had become. I had the urge to tell her that �I don�t even recognize who you�ve become�. But obviously didn�t. Thanks all.

Quote

After some of her rudeness and disrespect I had a thought. For the first time i had the thought �I don�t want a relationship with this person�. I get that I did things wrong in the R, but nothing significant enough to deserve this much resentment and disrespect. I loved my W when she was a caring, thoughtful and morally right person. I do not love the person she is right now. Will my old W every return? I don�t know. But if she doesn�t return, I don�t want an R with the person she had become. I had the urge to tell her that �I don�t even recognize who you�ve become�. But obviously didn�t. Thanks all.

I feel the exact same way about my W. She is so selfish and self-centered now. She isn't even putting the kids above herself. This is not the woman I know. She is acting like a rebellious teenager. I pray that she comes through this crisis.

Feel your pain destroyd. If they don�t get through it I think we�re better off without them.

Just wanted to document a strange interaction today when W came over to pick up S. She typically just waits in the car and texts me asking to bring S out. But today she parked and came to the door. She came inside and said hi to the dogs which was very strange because multiple times after BD she expressed how much she hates our dogs, one of which was her idea to get. She also said �I was at the store and thought of you so I got you this drink�. This was something she did frequently when our R was good but that stopped around BD. She made some comments about how the house looks like a frat house now with a bunch of jerseys and other sports things on the wall. I got a good laugh out of this. We chatted for a few and it was pretty pleasant without any disrespect. I then loaded our S into her car. As I was walking away she said �please be safe tonight and don�t drink and drive�. This is the first time since BD that I feel she has expressed concern for me.

I�m not reading into it and not believing anything she said, but it was strange. She did and said things that she did when our R was good. Maybe this is her just throwing me breadcrumbs. Maybe it was her pursuing after my brief businesslike visit with her yesterday. Only time will tell. Weird day though forsure. Thanks all.

Crumbs.

Venting: a couple of mutual friends went out for drinks with W last night. Girl mutual friend who is closer with W than me was apparently talking shyt about me and many of my other close friends. I thought she was a very genuine person and she regularly invites me out when I don�t have Son so I was really surprised to hear she was bad mouthing me and my friends. Think I�ll be pretty straight up with her next time she invites me out that I don�t respect her anymore.

Other mutual friend is closer with me and filled me in on what was said. W was also grilling mutual friend on my activities and what I�ve been doing. Mutual friend said my W was basically �manipulating� information out of her. Also W had son but it seems that lately she just pawns my son off with her mom so she can go out drinking. Makes me pretty annoyed but what can you expect from a WW.

Other than that I�ve had a good weekend. A new group of friends were doing karaoke and invited me out. Went and actually sang haha which is pretty far out of my comfort zone but really trying to be more outgoing and do things I previously wouldn�t. Really enjoyed it and even made a few new friends. So yeah GAL is going well and I�m feeling pretty detached lately. Will stay the course.

Hey everyone hoping for some advice,

Side story, got to talking with a teammate I didn�t know very well. Turns out he had a WW who had an affair. Although his time line was far shorter than mine, damn it sounded so similar.

My question is this, I am at a point where I want to tell my W/ExW: do not contact me unless there is an emergency with S. Although I didn�t find evidence of EA, there were many red flags. Changing phone password, taking phone to restroom, grooming down south daily all of a sudden.

Is this an acceptable thing to do? Although I don�t have proof, it is likely, and I will have no respect for her if so. Is saying something like this counterintuitive to DB?

Thanks

Edit: I have come up with a list of what it would take for me to take her back, obviously I�m far from that but made a list anyway:

1. MC
2. MIL cannot live with us again
3. Full transparency
4. IC for her or an equivalent that helps deal with immense baggage: self harm, anxiety, codependency, controlling behavior, depression, father not present, Mother alcoholic enabler.

Hallzy, ACTION not WORDS. Don't tell her anything. Just act.

When she calls, don't answer. If it is an emergency she will leave a message that you can check,.

If she texts, don't respond. If it is a direct question, that you feel you must answer, short answers. Direct to point. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers. If it is a direct question that you don't have to respond to: "How are you?", just ignore it.

I like your list. However it is NOT in the correct order:

1. IC for her or an equivalent that helps deal with immense baggage: self harm, anxiety, codependency, controlling behavior, depression, father not present, Mother alcoholic enabler.
2. MIL cannot live with us again
3. MC
4. Full transparency

Make #1 a requirement before you would EVEN consider taking her back. She has work to do on herself.......make her do the work.

Thanks for the reply Steve,
You got it! I feel that I�m at a point where I really want to step back. Yes I hope my family will be together one day but I�m at a point where I need to step back as far as possible. Thank you!

Hey all, everything�s going well not much to report. GAL is going great, lots of new friends and out of the house almost everyday. Getting to a good place emotionally.

Been doing well with LRT, W has been calling much more recently instead of texting. I typically don�t answer now. She will then text if I don�t answer. Typically it�s unimportant things.

So as my S goes to the school my W works at, his tuition comes directly out of her paycheck. I sent her boss an email a few days ago asking for a receipt of the tuition as I am paying for some of it and want to see the actual numbers. Her boss told my W I had asked before she replied to my email. When I saw W during pickup the other day she started a conversation asking why I wanted that information.

I replied that since I was paying for some of the tuition I wanted to see where my money was going. She then starting asking, �have you talked to your lawyer? That sounds like you are getting ready to file. Are you going to file? Why do you want the receipt?�, and so on. I kept it short but said that I wanted it for my records as I am paying for some of it. She then asked again �are you going to file?�. I replied �you keep asking that. If that�s what you want to do, go ahead.� Then I ended conversation that, �I have to get going�.

She seemed very concerned that I was filing which was odd. So anyway my question is, how should I be responding to this question? Since she moved out almost 2 months ago now, she has asked if I am filing probably 6 or 7 separate times. Typically I respond �if that�s what you want do it�, or �I haven�t thought much about it�. I almost feel like this is a form of a temp check or something. Advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Reply with "I haven't decided yet." but still prepare for it anyway. Give no absolutes of your motives or intentions. Your lawyer is your business not hers until they get together and hammer out a deal for dissolution and equitible split. Don't even acknowledge the lawyer questions or are you going to file questions. Just say I haven't decided yet and ask for the receipts anyway for your record-keeping since you are paying for half of it. She probably is temp checking because she's unprepared to file unless she has already seen a lawyer and retained them.

Hey Halzy. Check this out. It's called the marriage wheel. Tell me if this situation sounds familiar? https://youtu.be/pB8W845Uf1s

H,

I agree I like "I haven't decided yet". She's temp checking. My suspicions are that she's either early in an A or she's on the hunt and once she's locked someone down she will most likely D you.

You're in a tough spot right now.

Yeah IHC sounds about right. Thanks I will start using that line.

LH I think you are absolutely right. I know she has been GGW. And is most likely looking/ has already found AP.

Not feeling very hopeful these days. I know my sitch hasn�t been more than 4 months since BD but I�m definitely feeling less hopeful than a few months ago. Still bouncing back and forth between wanting to file myself and giving it more time. Guess I will wait for now and see if I can become more certain on if I should just file. Idk part of me thinks that filing would be the best option at this point because she is clearly in no rush to D at the moment and knows that I haven�t decided to yet either. Scks being in this limbo/holding pattern, wondering what the outcome will be. Feels like she has all the control of the sitch and I don�t like that feeling. I know I just need to let my thoughts about it go away.

I�ve been good at detachment lately but had a moment when I brought my S home after a few days of W having him. For the first hour he acted like he didn�t know where he was and acted afraid and would cry if I stopped holding him. Fckin broke my heart. Feeling a lot of sadness/resentment toward W today just because of my S reaction. Tomorrow will be a better day I suppose. Thanks all.

Also should add that I plan on putting a down payment on a house soon. Obviously this isn�t an option right now because of possible/probably divorce incoming. Thinking about that maybe it�s best if I should just file so I can get a house sooner. Still need to be more certain though.

Its hard Hallzy. Its hard to watch our children miss out on what could potentially be a great family dynamic when the other wants out. The other could want out for so many different reasons either having to do with us, or not having anything to do with us at all. That all we can do is take control of ourselves and our decisions. Its a helpless feeling. But it doesn't have to be. Its heartbreaking. Its heartbreaking to us, our spouses, and our families. But the heart wants what it wants. Some people want what they can't have, and have what they don't want. So as painful as it is for some of us going through this. I think a lot of us get to a point where we surrender to it and say, "Why fight it?" "Why am I so focused on them, on the M, when they don't want us anymore, and we could be using all those months/years of time and energy rebuilding ourselves." All we can do is make the best decisions for ourselves and our kids with the information, and the experience and coping skills we have at that time. You are going to go back and forth a lot in limbo about whether if you should file or not because of the way you are being currently treated, and wondering all these things about the future what your life will be like without them. It could be miserable, it could be awesome because you are no longer miserable being in a $hitty situation, and you worked on yourself. It could make you wonder? What if I gave things more time and patience? I don't know if this is the right answer or not? But since we are the ones that didn't want this in the first place? Then why file? Why not let them file? Then there is the other side where all you want to do is file so you can move on with your life away from this treatment and thus misery to find peace around you and within you. Only time, healing, inner and outer work will tell.

Hey IHC, yeah I guess that�s why they call it limbo haha. Yeah I agree with making them do all the work. It was their idea and a big one of my reasons against filing is that I don�t want to do her dirty work for her. Just thinking about my S and how it�s quite possible he won�t have memories of his parents being a family, but time will tell.

Well I was right and I am feeling good and detached again today. Checking more goals/GALs off the list. Signed up for my motorcycle course, I�ve wanted to ride for years but kept putting it off I guess. Stopped by a Harley Davidson dealership and looked at some nice bikes. Part of it was because my dad rode for years and didn�t want me to get injured but he�s gone now and life�s short so why not.

Also my piano was delivered today. There are a few songs I�ve always wanted to learn, but once again never got around to it. I know it sounds stupid but I�d love to just walk up to a random public piano somewhere and play some pretty skillful song.

I can say for certain, one of the best positives of my sitch is that I have done so many things and interacted with so many people that I never would have pre BD. I feel like Jim Carey in Yes Man because if a friend asks me to go some where or do something new, it�s now an automatic yes. That�s all, take care guys.

I don't think your desire to be able to play a song at a public piano is silly at all. I have often wanted to take piano lessons for this same reason. In fact, your post here might have inspired me. I hear that the Simply Piano app for the iPhone and iPad is a great piano teaching tool.

Has GALing become easier since the separation? I try to GAL, but I feel like I have to be at home so much for my three kids.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Not feeling very hopeful these days. I know my sitch hasn�t been more than 4 months since BD but I�m definitely feeling less hopeful than a few months ago.

We all come here solely focused on saving our M's, but as you continue down the road at some point your hope shifts from your M to just a better life. You have a hundred reasons to have hope for a better life, and only one of them is a saved M. Maybe it will happen and maybe it won't, but you should have 99 other things you're focused on too.

I offer my sitch up now and then as a reason to have hope, and I'm really not trying to boast but to just let you and others know a great life is waiting for you. I divorced, I dated some really sexy, beautiful women and settled on a long-term relationship with one of them. We've been together 4 years now. She is young, beautiful, has a centerfold figure and we are very committed to each other. She's made me realize how stifling and boring my marriage was, I made so many compromises that I never should have had to make. It's ironic that I worked so hard to save a M to someone I wasn't really that compatible with. She's wild and full of spirit and has re-energized my life. And the sex is absolutely incredible and without limits. Of course we have ups and downs like any relationship but my point is if your marriage doesn't make it, there are plenty of opportunities out there just waiting for you.

After BD when I started to realize my M was well and truly dead, I figured I was just counting the days until death. I had no idea a whole new exciting, invigorating life was waiting for me. On the show Vikings, Rolo lost his wife and his position in the tribe and was despondent, he went to the Seer and asked if that was it, his life was over. The Seer started laughing and said "Oh Rolo, if you knew what the gods have in store for you, you would go down and dance naked on the beach!" If your M doesn't make it, you can make WHATEVER YOU WANT of your life.

Hey Destroyd, yes although it isn�t like this for everyone, I have been able to detach far more since the separation. It�s much easier not to think about someone when you don�t see them everyday. And yes with split custody I have far more free time for GAL. I only have 1 S though so I can imagine 3 children requires much more work. Maybe compromise with your W and say, I am going out tonight, I can watch the kids tomorrow if you want to get out of the house.

Hey thanks AS, I�ve read some of your more recent sitch and you are definitely in a better place. I have had the opportunity to partake in far more activities and have made so many more friends since seperation, so I have seen many positives out of my sitch. I am hopeful for my own future, just not as hopeful for my future with W. And that is okay.

Short update: Had great weekend with S. Went to the beach with my best friend, sons godfather. When dropping S off with W, I arrived early and W was not home yet. Her mom was however and invited me in. We had a pleasant talk for a few. She told me I could hang out until W got home but I told her I had somethings to do and was gonna run.

Few hours later W texted me. Asking about my weekend with S. Replied but briefly. She sent me some heart emojis but I know that doesn�t mean shyt. She asked me to bring her some food next time I drop son off. Didn�t reply. She then texted again a few hours later after I didn�t reply. I know I�ve said I need to decrease our interactions but we texted a few paragraphs back and forth, the most in a long time. I have no expectations from this but thought I should document.

Thanks all

What were the texts about?

Hey LH, mainly about S and fun places to take him. She told me about a nice park with a train. I replied, �sounds fun I will have to take him there�. No more family time haha.

One step forward two steps back.

I assume you feel that this interaction showed attachment or something LH, but it was regarding Son. I assure you i wouldn�t have responded if it didn�t. Maybe she is using son as means for contacting me/temp checking but idk, I�ve received advice from sandi that I shouldn�t withhold information about Son when W asks.

I don't disagree. You said paragraphs. Replies should be short and to the point. "He would like that" "sounds fun". You're still looking for table scraps (heart emojis).

The past few weeks I have replied very briefly or not at all. But yes you�re right LH, I gotta keep it that way. Will be focusing on that next. Thanks man.

On another note, feeling good lately! Everything�s going really well for me besides my sitch. I have a day here or there where I think about W and have feelings of anger. But the majority of the days I just focus on myself, son, new friends and new hobbies. Life goes on haha.

Hey guys. I�ve been reading/replying to others a lot this week. But I guess I�ll do a little update. Been NC for a bit over a week now. The last time I saw W was when picking up S from her daycare where she works. Gave her a slight �what�s up� head nod and left. Besides that she texted me a long logistics text to which I replied �yes�. That�s it.

In other news, everything�s going really well. Getting my motorcycle on Thursday, super excited about that. Learning piano slowly hahah. Had a fun week with my son when I had him. Took him to a few parks. Playing a shyt load of hockey and scoring a lot of goals. Still meeting a lot of new people and making new friends. I think I can check the get better at small talk/socializing goal off the list because I am now comfortable talking to strangers about everything under the sun.

Hung out with some mutual friends of W and myself (she wasn�t there). Got a lot of comments from mutual girl friend who is closer to W than me about how good I look and that the extra 10 pounds of muscle I�ve gained since BD suits me well. She also tried prying into my personal life and if I was dating. Things like that. I shut that down pretty quick as it isn�t her business and I don�t really trust her. I was already a confident guy but with the changes I�ve made and the goals I have achieved since BD, my confidence is at an all time high.

Not sure if this is a good thing but I guess it means my detachment is going well. Been talking to and hanging out with a really beautiful, nice girl. I don�t want to say I have feelings for her. But it crosses my mind that I want to be more than friends with her. Not gonna rush into it, just gonna try to enjoy life and see what happens.

Although I feel sadness that my S won�t know what it�s like to have parents who are together, with all the good things I have going for me, it�s getting easier and easier for me to think that I don�t really need W in my life anymore. We will see what happens but either way, I am going to thrive.

Thanks guys!

Been NC with W for 2 weeks now. Apart from a couple one word replies to her logistics texts. I see her most times I pick up my S from her work. Now I just get my S and leave. Typically she yells �okay bye!� At me. I just give her a head nod and keep walking. It�s strange to think this is the longest we haven�t talked in 7 years, but I am accepting of my situation. Hope everyone�s doing well.

Hello, just documenting.

Today was my day to drop of S at Ws apartment. Early morning she texted me about what time I would be dropping off. It�s the same time every week so I didnt really need to answer this but I responded �1�. She then sent a few texts about how she wanted me to bring lunch and coffee for us. I did not reply.

Got to her and her moms apartment. Did not go in. She began asking me about my motorcycle which mutual friends must have told her about, answered happily but briefly. She then invited me inside stating that her mom wasn�t home. I replied that � no I have to get going�. She then started playfully hitting me and said that she wanted a hug. Felt like a lot of temp checks after my NC for the past few weeks. No disrespect noted today.

Had a mutual friend tell me the other day that I seem like totally different and much happier person since W moved out. I guess this can be attributed to 180s, PMA and doing a lot of inward thinking to improve on my flaws. This made me happy to hear because many people have noticed my changes which means I am checking goals off the list. I don�t think W has looked inward or done much changing. Maybe she is oblivious to her flaws. Oh well, I can only control myself. Thanks all

Hey guys need some advice.

So I know it�s only been 3 months since W moved out. Pretty much in holding pattern as I�ve been LRT/NC unless related to S. W hasn�t mentioned D or mediation for about a month now.

The problem: we rushed through the separation agreement. Anyway after talking to my lawyer I know that if we go through with D I will be paying like 300 dollars less a month. My dumb a** agreed to pay for all of my sons daycare tuition when legally my lawyer said I should only be responsible for half. And while I�m doing okay financially, an extra 300 a month could go a long way and might provide me some great vacation opportunities in the future.

I want to continue with my DBing as I think I�ve done really well lately. I know it�s only been like 5 months since BD and I shouldn�t expect much change in that time but what are my options right now. I really don�t want to pay that extra money and as that number is written on the separation agreement I think my only option is to file or mediate? Being in limbo is no fun either lol. Any advice is appreciated.

Are you ready to D? If not try talking to her about it.

I think I�m prepared to be patient, I know my sitch is short, but the financial aspect of it changes things a bit. How should I go about having that conversation LH? �I know that if we D I will be responsible for less support than I am giving you now. I think I should be paying X amount to you per month.�

Something like that?

Yeah just say you were going over the numbers and you noticed an error in the calculation and you should be paying her 300 less per month.

You don�t ask you don�t get.

Lol that was interesting. So yeah I said. �When we D I will be paying X amount. I want to change the agreement so I am paying X amount.

Her: �Okay Hallzy. When we D the support amount will be figured out at that time. My L said it would be more.�

Me: �My lawyer showed me X amount. I think we should do a settlement soon.�

Her: �Can we talk about this tomorrow.�

Not sure why but I felt okay with this. I don�t like the situation I�m in. If we were to D soon, nothing in my life would change compared to how it is now. I don�t like the feeling of waiting around and want to get on with my L. WW is still deep in the fog I believe and her new behavior and loss of her previous morals is incredibly unattractive to me. Until she does some inward thinking and improves herself,I don�t want to have an R with that person. May have jumped the gun here but I feel okay with what I said. I guess we will see what happens tomorrow but she seemed like she wanted to avoid the conversation. Thanks

Oh boy. Not what I told you to say. You tried to get a reaction and of course you didn�t get the one you wanted.

Of course both lawyers are telling you different amounts because they want to take all your money.

Hallzy is this a legal separation or a trial separation right now? Just curious what you documented with regards to finances during your situation.

In my state they have calculators for D, but I am fully expecting if we end up going down this route we will be in a legal tug-of-war because the calculators are just "guidelines" and then the L's get involved and the support payments going to the L's just ramp up.

Hey LH, not looking for a reaction, just kinda over my sitch at this point and said what I felt. We could D tomorrow and nothing would change for me. I�m perfectly fine with Ding at this point because we have basically been Ded the past few months in all ideology but not legally. I was hoping to see improvements but I have seen none in her. I on the other hand have made many incredible changes and feel that I am the best version of myself I have been in years. Like I said in my last post, I have no interest in R with the person she has become.

Hey U, it�s just a trial separation but we drew up an agreement before she moved out. Yeah my L put the rough numbers through the calculator which is what I�m going off. I definitely feel that I�m currently paying more than I should which is limiting me in other areas of life. I would prefer to avoid a crazy legal battle that would cost a lot. I need to do some research and see if I can make this process cost effective.

Hallzy - I have heard of a process called "collaborative divorce" which is somewhere between mediation and going to court. There is still a mediator, but each side has advisors helping them out. In some cases these things get crazy - lawyers, advisors, psychiatrists, etc. In your scenario, perhaps you could agree to mediation with separate financial reps advising you on that part of the process. Check out CDFAs (I think that's what they are called). Talk to your mediator, together, about your options?

Ultimately I would expect you will need to compromise somewhat because those calculators can be tuned to spit out quite a range of numbers.

Awesome thanks for the info U. I will look into it. W had asked that we talk about it today. But as I am LRT I�m not gonna text her first lol. They say actions over words so I guess i will start researching and calling mediators to get the ball rolling.

After LH asked me if I wanted D, I replied that I could be patient. But after thinking about it for a bit I realized how numb I am to the idea of D. A few months ago D scared me and I wanted to do anything to avoid it. Now I just think how even if we Ded, nothing in my life would change. I would still get up in the morning and my life would have no changes. I know I keep saying it but I�ve made some great changes and everyone I know has noticed. Feeling good and detached. I know it hasn�t been all that long but I was the one in the R with self differentiation. I was the one already GAL. So in a way DBing just helped me to double down and detach faster. Thanks all

Wowwee big development.

It�s my weekend without S. I decided to go out to a club with a buddy of mine from my hockey team. And guess who I saw at the club. No surprise but W was there. With some of her friends and a guy she was hooking up with when we broke up for a few months about 5 years ago.

I don�t care about the guy. I care that it�s her weekend with our S and she decides to pawn him off to grandma while she goes out blacking out till 2am. There have been times I drop S off and it looks like she just woke up at 1pm. I am a mixture of anger and disappointment right now. Her priorities revolve around her A and binge drinking at the moment. A big difference from her normal moral compass. The WWness is strong and I am angry. I plan on filing on Monday and I don�t want it to be an easy way out. I want to pay her less than I am and to have my son more than I do currently.

I am shocked that she chooses to go out and get black out drunk while our S is supposed to be under her care. These events have cemented the idea that I don�t want this unrecognizable person in my life. Just so disappointed at this point. Thanks guys

Welp a new day came around and I still feel the same. Talked to my buddy who is in the legal system and printed all the court documents for filing divorce. Started filling them out but getting a little to tired to focus. Spoke with my older brother, who is like a father figure to me. He also had a WW when he was younger who abandoned their son and moved to a different country with her OP, which didn�t last. He reinforced that he supported me filing.

Felt a lot of sadness reading the court papers about child custody. But this isn�t what I wanted. I do not see the point continuing this sitch in its current state. W acts like an unrecognizable person and I very much doubt she will ever look inward and do the work required to deal with her issues. Because of this, I am moving on with my life. Good luck all.

H,

As much as I think your W is a train wreck I think you should give it more time before you file for divorce.

Hey LH thanks for the reply,

I just don�t know how I can continue onward after the disrespect and after her actions. I�ll admit that maybe earlier on I was a bit in denial. She used to be such an honest and caring person that I had so much trouble believing she was in an A. Even with all the red flags I chose to believe that she was just texting her friends who were girls. Seeing her with old hookup confirmed for me that she was having at least EA while we still lived together.

If I had proof when she still lived here, I would have instantly kicked her out. I dont tolerate things like that and I think she was so undercover about it because she knew it would have been bad news for her if I had found out.

LH honestly man I don�t want anything to do with her right now. I don�t want to treat her with coldness but it is going to take a lot of effort for me to act with PMA around her now. I have lost all respect I once had for her and unless she has drastic changes I don�t think her image will ever be restored with me.

While I planned on filing tomorrow I have decided I need to at least have have my lawyer look over the paperwork as I don�t want to have any errors. We will see how that goes, thanks!

H,

After being on the board for 4 plus years when a woman moves out as quick as yours did I knew she was in an affair.

Yep take your time and keep working on yourself. You are so young and deserve so much better. This will soon be a distant memory.

Thanks LH I appreciate it,

So for now the plan is to have her served next week, she will probably ask why, which my gut response is to say �because you are a liar and a cheater�, but I have some time to think about an appropriate response lol.

I would say �because this arrangement isn�t working for me anymore�.

Why is that Halzy?

Because I will not live in an open marriage.

Conversation over.

Thanks LH, read that post a few days ago but had nothing else to report. I will use those lines. As much as I�d love to say I know about your A and saw who you were with�, I will not. Reading other threads it seems pointless and will not do any good.

So update: I filed on Tuesday. Saw my lawyer who went over the paperwork and approved it for me. I know W can�t afford a lawyer so I will be representing myself. The lawyer advised me to put terminate support on the form so I won�t have to pay support and if W wants to respond she can and we will go from there. Side note: I am not denying support out of malice but my W lives with her mom who is a total enabler (MIL bought a brand new car a month ago and W convinced her that she should have it, so now MIL is driving Ws old car while W drives new car.). So I know MIL who makes great money will be providing financially for my S so I know he will not be wanting a thing.

W was very lazy when it came to similar things (separation agreement was written up at midnight the night before W moved out lol). So I wonder if she will even respond within the 30 days for my state. Otherwise I specified a 50:50 custody of 2-2-3 schedule.

My buddy who owns a process service company was super awesome and is serving for free, priority serve. Yesterday server attempted twice but no one came to the door. Not sure if he was successful today but I will know tomorrow.

W dropped of S today and made some small talk. I was pretty short but pleasant. She said �it was funny seeing you out at the club the other night� and there were many things I wanted to say angrily I simply said, �yeah I had a fun time.� W tried lingering and talking but I politely shooed her out the door. Before hand I told her what time I will be dropping of S in a few days so there will be no need for further communication.

I have a lot of anger about this situation and my normal reaction would be to call her on her BS and call her a liar. But from my time on this site I�ve learned that nothing positive could really come from that. I was polite and friendly in my interaction but very brief. I have been NC for a bit now but I still have this feeling she thinks I am a firm plan B. She does a lot of touchy teasing flirting when I see her. So my filing will be a shock to her I believe.

I know this post has had a lot to do with her but I�m going to try and document the time before and after she is served.

Shout out to LH for the great advice over the past few months, helped me to really cut out the BS of dealing with my soon to be ex WW.

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Thanks LH, read that post a few days ago but had nothing else to report. I will use those lines. As much as I�d love to say I know about your A and saw who you were with�, I will not. Reading other threads it seems pointless and will not do any good.

Hallz, I agree with LH, you are young and have an amazing life ahead. You will be able to find a new love interest that doesn�t have all of the baggage that us older LBH�s will have to deal with.

I like that you�re taking the high road and not bringing up the AP. He is a symptom in the breakdown of your MR and it�s unlikely your STBXW will be with him for long. Looking forward to read about her reaction on getting served. Way to stand up for yourself!

H,

I appreciate the kind words. You have come a long way the last few months. You have grown immensely and I wish more of the LBS had the strength you have to walk away from the BS. Also realize this isn't necessarily the end. If she ever sees you as the person of high that you are and is willing to do the work you can reevaluate at that time if it is something you are interested in. I will say it again, where you are at in life being newlyweds and a young son are supposed to be the best days of your life. If she is pulling this bs now God only knows how she would be acting after you were married 20 years. Stay strong my friend!

Curtis,

Younger or older everybody has baggage. These are just limiting beliefs that you have the cause you to remain stuck and allow yourself to be disrespected. You have the power to do what Halzy did but you choose weakness. Until you learn to love and respect yourself you will continue to suffer.

Hey Curtis, I appreciate it man. I don�t know if I�ve commented much on your sitch but I am fully caught up. Hopefully you are getting to an easier place of letting go.

So W was served Thursday evening. The server (employee of one of my best friends) said that she acted pretty shocked. But I didn�t hear from her at all until this morning. Got a couple of 4am texts from her:

W: Hey (old embarrassing nickname)
W: couples counseling?

Obviously my instinct tells me that this holds no merit and that she was most likely just getting home from a night of binge drinking. I have S this weekend and wasn�t up at 4am lol.

If she does bring it up I�m just not sure what to say. I don�t feel like she has gone through the process yet. While she is still involved in these Wayward activities such as binge drinking till 4am with new enabler friends, I don�t really think there would be any point in MC. Advice on further replies is appreciated. Thanks

I�d simply say no thanks and keep moving forward.

If she wanted to work on things you�d get way more than a 4am text with two words and a question mark. Just a stalling tactic in my view.

I would consider no response at all to the text. Personally I wouldn't respond to any text sent at 4am.

If she brought it up again, sober, in an authentic and meaningful way (which is up to you to evaluate), maybe that is a good time to have more of an open mind.

Please start a new thread and link both of them together.

Link to new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2860981&#Post2860981