Acceptance stage and reconnection

[MLCxH]

I have been reading the threads on this forum and it has been very helpful. God bless all of you who take time to help others here.

It took me more than 9 months after the bomb drop to realize my wife was in MLC. I believe she was in replay/depression during the bomb drop that happened about a year ago. I did a semi-180 with focus on my own well being. It was semi-180 because I also kept having relationship talks with her. I was not as motivated to save the marriage because I took her criticism personally without knowing about MLC and that the monster she had become was not my real wife. 8 months after BD we had a big argument where I said some harsh things and she filed for D. It was only after this that I learned about MLC and became sympathetic to the emotional pain she is suffering and tried to save the marriage without expectations for me. We are close to finalizing our D with separation terms finalized now.

We are both conservative and there is no OM or affair. Her replay has been on trying to establish a career after being a stay at home mom for a decade. Her father worked away from home for extended periods of time for the first ten years of her life and her mother has NPD tendencies. I read on one of the threads that they go back to people who stunted their emotional growth and she seems to be doing that by getting close again with her parents and relatives from her youth.

I feel like she is reconnecting more with me over the past few weeks. I see cycling between acceptance and withdrawal. We still live in the same house for now and she has been becoming more normal in her interactions with me over time. Not sure if it is me understanding MLC and giving her space or the D getting finalized and taking pressure away but things are improving even though the D process is moving fast.

I was surprised when this week she actually opened up and talked about some positive things I did during our marriage. I am on an emotional roller coaster now with the mixed signals. To avoid getting my hopes up I have subconsciously reduced the amount of interaction I initiate with her from my end. I am still friendly with her otherwise and when we interact there is no tension. Is she getting to the acceptance stage with hope for reconnection or is it still touch and go? Confused if I should do anything or just be patient and let things play out. Is the reduced interaction from my side ok?

God bless all of you in this community. You are a huge source of support.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[SteveLW]

Is she getting to the acceptance stage with hope for reconnection or is it still touch and go? Confused if I should do anything or just be patient and let things play out. Is the reduced interaction from my side ok?

Learned a new quote last week. When they want to reconnect you will know. If they don't, you'll be confused. It is always touch and go until after you've R'd and pieced for a long while you can look back and see a pattern of consistent behavior on her part.

I just told another poster. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all. Yes, be patient. Let things play out. Continue to let her come toward you. (Think of the analogy of a cat. Cats want you when you don't want them. If you call a cat, or pick it up, it will want to go the other way. But if you let it come to you of its own will, then often times you can hold it for a long time.)

Continue to focus on yourself. Positive 180s. Detachment (please Google "self differentiation in marriage", I think it is a better way of understanding what detachment is). GAL. Be intriguing to her. A little mysterious. Think of what attracted her to you to begin with (likely wasn't clinginess and neediness). Be the man only a fool would leave!

[Cadet]

Is she getting to the acceptance stage with hope for reconnection or is it still touch and go?
Confused if I should do anything or just be patient and let things play out.
Is the reduced interaction from my side ok?

I doubt she is at the acceptance stage of MLC.

Patience will rule the day.

Think like you are feeding a squirrel.
Any sudden movements will likely result in the squirrel running away.
All you can do is be still and hope the squirrel comes to you to get fed.
Chasing it will not bring you closer.

[AnotherStander]

Hello and welcome!

I feel like she is reconnecting more with me over the past few weeks. I see cycling between acceptance and withdrawal. We still live in the same house for now and she has been becoming more normal in her interactions with me over time. Not sure if it is me understanding MLC and giving her space or the D getting finalized and taking pressure away but things are improving even though the D process is moving fast.

Well that's a positive sign at least. It's probably not an indication that she will back down from D, but it does point towards you effectively removing pressure and she feels more comfortable around you. So keep doing what you're doing.

I am on an emotional roller coaster now with the mixed signals. To avoid getting my hopes up I have subconsciously reduced the amount of interaction I initiate with her from my end.

They're not really mixed signals, she's still full steam ahead with D I'm sure. Like I said it's just an indication that you've been doing well at removing pressure. She feels like you're not going to fight her on D so she's lowering her guard a teeny bit.

Is she getting to the acceptance stage with hope for reconnection or is it still touch and go? Confused if I should do anything or just be patient and let things play out. Is the reduced interaction from my side ok?

I agree with Cadet, she's likely not at acceptance yet. It could be years before she's there. MLCers are on a long timeline, much longer than the WAS's that you may read about in this particular forum. You'll get more responses posting here so stay here, but do read as much as you can on the MLC forum as well so you can temper your expectations. So yes be patient and let things play out, even if that means divorce. D isn't necessarily the end of things. As far as reduced interaction, if that is helping you cope then by all means do it. It's not going to hurt your sitch and may even help it.

[IronWill]

Wow. I just learned a ton in these few posts.

My W is at a similar point. 9 months in here. 2-3 months of full understanding on my part. My W is also in crisis, but I'm thinking she is MLC, WAS and/or perimenopause all combined. MIL has told me her 40s were bad - perimenopause through the roof. Hated husband for no good reason. She thinks could be the same with her D.

Also no affair going on, but there may be some IA's with all the internet use. One can never be 100 percent but I'm pretty sure it's not reciprocated - she leaves her phone/tablet out in the open. I do not look at all.

Saw some positive signs after about 5 weeks of DBing last few weeks only to plunge back into the MLC trough this weekend. I'm still at touch and go. She still wants S, but hasnt made a move past IHS yet. My increase on space and detachment seems to have put at least a temp pause on that.

You're in a great place. These people know a lot. The resources are also amazing reads, esp on MLC. I'm sorry you're here, but be glad you are here!

[MLCxH]

Thank you for the great support everyone.

Wow. I just learned a ton in these few posts.
My W is at a similar point. 9 months in here. 2-3 months of full understanding on my part. My W is also in crisis, but I'm thinking she is MLC, WAS and/or perimenopause all combined. MIL has told me her 40s were bad - perimenopause through the roof. Hated husband for no good reason. She thinks could be the same with her D.

I forgot to mention my wife is at perimenopause also. Seems like a very similar situation. I also often wonder if my wife is in crisis due to a combination of the three.

They're not really mixed signals, she's still full steam ahead with D I'm sure.

Once the D was filed the attorneys seemed to give it a life of its own so I just let that play out. I did not want to add any additional pressure on her by fighting to delay it. The process was amicable, she was not angry to make things difficult for me and I did not make it difficult from my side. If a reconciliation happens I know it will have to be after the D. If I had known she was in MLC before the D filing I probably could have stopped it. Things just moved too fast and smoothly once it was filed.

I agree with Cadet, she's likely not at acceptance yet. It could be years before she's there. MLCers are on a long timeline, much longer than the WAS's that you may read about in this particular forum.

I am continuing to be patient and not raising my hopes. Things seem to be moving in the right direction so even if she is not at acceptance I hope she is at least moving in the right direction. When I look back, I feel her MLC first started about 2 years before the bomb drop so I would guess she is about 2-3 years into the crisis.

Learned a new quote last week. When they want to reconnect you will know. If they don't, you'll be confused. It is always touch and go until after you've R'd and pieced for a long while you can look back and see a pattern of consistent behavior on her part.

Patience will rule the day.

The hardest part of being patient is watching the damage she is inflicting during this time but what choice do I really have? Sigh!

[unchien]

MLCxH - How old is your W?

Also you said if you knew she was in MLC pre-BD, you could have stopped it. Can you please elaborate?

I like a certain song lyric I've heard about patience: "Patience is a virtue / Until its silence burns you." Feels apropos to my sitch, probably to yours as well.

[MLCxH]

MLCxH - How old is your W?

Also you said if you knew she was in MLC pre-BD, you could have stopped it. Can you please elaborate?

I like a certain song lyric I've heard about patience: "Patience is a virtue / Until its silence burns you." Feels apropos to my sitch, probably to yours as well.

She's 41. What I said is if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing. I was putting a lot of pressure on her to make up her mind which did not help. Her MLC would have happened anyway, her problem not mine to solve.

More than patience I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control. Knowing I am helpless to do anything helps more than anything

[SteveLW]

MLCxH - How old is your W?

Also you said if you knew she was in MLC pre-BD, you could have stopped it. Can you please elaborate?

I like a certain song lyric I've heard about patience: "Patience is a virtue / Until its silence burns you." Feels apropos to my sitch, probably to yours as well.

She's 41. What I said is if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing. I was putting a lot of pressure on her to make up her mind which did not help. Her MLC would have happened anyway, her problem not mine to solve.

More than patience I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control. Knowing I am helpless to do anything helps more than anything

This is why we push no pressure. No one likes limbo, obviously. But limbo is a gift of time. Time for the WAS to figure out their stuff. Time for the LBS to improve, make self-improvements, to focus on themselves and their kids. Time to become the spouse only a fool would leave. Time to let the open wounds that led to BD, rest and heal.

"if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing" then you said "I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control"

MLCxH, one of the most important things in DBing is to be consistent. Be consistent in action. Be consistent in principle. Be consistent in thinking.

[MLCxH]

"if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing" then you said "I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control"

MLCxH, one of the most important things in DBing is to be consistent. Be consistent in action. Be consistent in principle. Be consistent in thinking.

Difference is pre-D filing I did not know about MLC. What I mean is had I known about her MLC I would have not put pressure and that would have prevented the D filing. Possible she may have filed later anyway but not knowing then what I know now contributed to this

[SteveLW]

"if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing" then you said "I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control"

MLCxH, one of the most important things in DBing is to be consistent. Be consistent in action. Be consistent in principle. Be consistent in thinking.

Difference is pre-D filing I did not know about MLC. What I mean is had I known about her MLC I would have not put pressure and that would have prevented the D filing. Possible she may have filed later anyway but not knowing then what I know now contributed to this

Ah ok. However, my original point stands. You should not be doing anything, or not doing anything, to try to manipulate an action from her. WASs are notoriously sharp at sniffing out manipulation attempts. You shouldn't have applied pressure not because it would have prevented or from filing or not, but because it is the right thing to do. She has asked for space. Removing all pressure and pursuit gives her that. And allows you to focus on what you can focus on.

So while I agree that you should not have pressured her, it has nothing to do with whether or not she would have filed when she did.

[unchien]

MLCxH - I don't want to hijack your thread, but I am very curious if you have feedback on my thread (trying to assess the MLC-ness of my W):

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2849110#Post2849110

One thing I've learned here so far is to battle the instinct to search for cause and effect. Toss reason out the window. You simply cannot explain (or control) the WAS's behavior, thoughts, words, or actions. This is Bizarro World.

DB primarily "works" for you and what you can control - your own self-improvement. It may tangentially improve your sitch with your WAS.

[IronWill]

[quote=IronWill]Wow. I just learned a ton in these few posts.
My W is at a similar point. 9 months in here. 2-3 months of full understanding on my part. My W is also in crisis, but I'm thinking she is MLC, WAS and/or perimenopause all combined. MIL has told me her 40s were bad - perimenopause through the roof. Hated husband for no good reason. She thinks could be the same with her D.

I forgot to mention my wife is at perimenopause also. Seems like a very similar situation. I also often wonder if my wife is in crisis due to a combination of the three.

Yes it's definitely a hard thing to deal with. It's been 9 months since I've seen it outwardly, but in the various mini BDs I got she said it had been anywhere between 1-1.5 yrs before that that she started to "change". I know hormonally things are changing for her. I've seen the confusion, the forgetfulness, the outright rage at one insignificant thing. I tiptoed around my house for half a year hoping it would improve or alleviate. Ive tried very nicely suggesting if she might want to think about perhaps getting a checkup in a round about way but that was way before the big BD happened and it was seen as me trying to control her or fix her.

There wasso much anger and fury before. Now its lingering resentment - and somehow she has convinced herself I am absolutely the cause of her unhappiness.

I am by no means perfect. I contributed my share of the problems in the R, I am in full acceptance of this. But I am under no illusion of what our MR was.

I estimate I'm at about year 2.5 of her "feeling not the same"

[MLCxH]

MLCxH - I don't want to hijack your thread, but I am very curious if you have feedback on my thread (trying to assess the MLC-ness of my W):

Yes I will read through it and post my feedback on that thread. I am not a veteran or expert by any means but can definitely share my perspective

[MLCxH]

There wasso much anger and fury before. Now its lingering resentment - and somehow she has convinced herself I am absolutely the cause of her unhappiness.

From everything I have read the MLC rewriting the history of the marriage with the spouse as the villiam seems to be very common. Trying to talk logic or explain why they are wrong only makes things worse.

I am by no means perfect. I contributed my share of the problems in the R, I am in full acceptance of this. But I am under no illusion of what our MR was.

I used to feel the same way and think about how things could have been different if I had done things differently. But knowing that events in childhood pretty much guarantee an MLC in most cases I don't blame myself as much anymore. I was not perfect but I did not anything crazy. Even if I had changed some of the negatives she would have likely rewritten history to justify her decision anyways.

[MLCxH]

One question that I find difficult to understand. Many posts I read indicated that they either reach acceptance within 1 year of BD or else it increases to 2-5 years. On the other hand, there are posts that say it is a marathon and 1 year is too less. Can someone help shed some light on understanding this?

Is there a way to recognize her moving closer to acceptance based on changes? Do any of these indicate anything?
If she did not respect me earlier but is showing more respect now.
If her blaming me for everything has stopped or reduced
If she starts talking about the good in the marriage instead of rewriting history as bad
If she compliments me on looking better since the BD

[SteveLW]

One question that I find difficult to understand. Many posts I read indicated that they either reach acceptance within 1 year of BD or else it increases to 2-5 years. On the other hand, there are posts that say it is a marathon and 1 year is too less. Can someone help shed some light on understanding this?

Is there a way to recognize her moving closer to acceptance based on changes? Do any of these indicate anything?
If she did not respect me earlier but is showing more respect now.
If her blaming me for everything has stopped or reduced
If she starts talking about the good in the marriage instead of rewriting history as bad
If she compliments me on looking better since the BD

Is there a way to recognize her moving closer to acceptance based on changes? Do any of these indicate anything?

Even if there was a way, you shouldn't be looking for it. DBing while watching for "signs" never works. It is like watching a pot waiting for it to boil. You DB for you. For the changes it engenders in you. Never DB looking over your shoulder to see if she is watching.

If she did not respect me earlier but is showing more respect now.

You should command respect, never demand it. When disespect is shown you say "I will not tolerate this." Then walk away. Say it calmly without emotion. However, WAS waffle between disrespect and respect. Neither is a sign of anything other than how they are feeling and reacting at that moment.

If her blaming me for everything has stopped or reduced

Again this comes and goes. My WW would one minute remind me that I was a terrible husband. Then a half hour later admit that the problem was all on her end, that she was feeling things she didn't understand. Our sitches are long term states with day to day fluctuations. Never put any significance on the fluctuations. Getting too up over a positive fluctuation, or too down over a negative one will cause you to react in ways that set you back. It is anti to detachment. Avoid there temptation to take her temperature often to gauge how things might end up.

If she starts talking about the good in the marriage instead of rewriting history as bad
If she compliments me on looking better since the BD

Think about when you broke up with a girlfriend in the past. Did you tell her "this was an awful relationship. I was not happy a single moment. And you're ugly and a terrible person!" Or did you highlight good times, and tell her she was attractive and would bounce back? WAS after the initial BD will sometimes go into the "let them down easy" mode. So how do you know if recognizing good times and compliments are real signs or letting you down easy? The answer is, you don't. And that's why you believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.

The only "sign" that matters is consistent behavior over a long period of time. I'm talking months, and even years. When you can look back and realize she's been all in to the R for 12 months, or longer, then you can say you've turned the corner.

Marathon. Not a Sprint. Focus on you. Remove all focus from her.

[Cadet]

Many posts I read indicated that they either reach acceptance within 1 year of BD or else it increases to 2-5 years. On the other hand, there are posts that say it is a marathon and 1 year is too less. Can someone help shed some light on understanding this?

One year is not a common event.
2-5 is possible and I can tell you that my ex wife appeared to go through all the stages in the first year and then after that we got divorced and as far as I can tell 10 years later(now) she is still not done.

Timelines are a really bad idea.

Their are no guarantees, start living your life "as if" she is never coming back and then if she does you can worry about it at that point.

[MLCxH]

.

The only "sign" that matters is consistent behavior over a long period of time. I'm talking months, and even years. When you can look back and realize she's been all in to the R for 12 months, or longer, then you can say you've turned the corner.

Her behavior has actually been very consistent. For almost a year I did not hear one good thing that I had done for her. There were no short term fluctuations or letting me down easy. Everything that was said was about what I had done wrong. Two weeks ago was the first time she said something nice and there has been no negative comments since then. I know two weeks is a short time and I am not reading into it but it is a change nonetheless.

I am continuing to DB for myself not for her but I do need to decide how long I will stand and that is the only reason I am watching for signs. If it is going to take her 10 years, I don't think I will be standing that long

[MLCxH]

Many posts I read indicated that they either reach acceptance within 1 year of BD or else it increases to 2-5 years. On the other hand, there are posts that say it is a marathon and 1 year is too less. Can someone help shed some light on understanding this?

One year is not a common event.
2-5 is possible and I can tell you that my ex wife appeared to go through all the stages in the first year and then after that we got divorced and as far as I can tell 10 years later(now) she is still not done.

Timelines are a really bad idea.

Their are no guarantees, start living your life "as if" she is never coming back and then if she does you can worry about it at that point.

Thanks for the insight Cadet. The more I start living as if she is never coming back the less I am motivated to stand for her. The thing about detachment is that you increase the distance from your W and it is only driving me further apart from her. Only thing I worry about is the kids at this point.

[unchien]

MLC - how old are your kids? Can you add a signsture like others here with basic details of your sitch?

You sound like you have found a nice balance with detachment.

[Cadet]

The more I start living as if she is never coming back the less I am motivated to stand for her. The thing about detachment is that you increase the distance from your W and it is only driving me further apart from her. Only thing I worry about is the kids at this point.

First STAND for yourself.
Then for your kids.

Those are the most important things.

Dont worry about her, that is her job not yours.

[MLCxH]

First STAND for yourself.
Then for your kids.

Those are the most important things.

This is great advice. Something I have not come to terms with yet but slowly working towards getting there

Dont worry about her, that is her job not yours.

I agree. It was hard initially but once I accepted her problems are hers to solve it was easier to start detaching. Right now the hard part for me is my desire to keep the family together for the kids. I have to get better at standing for myself first

[si13]

MLCxH - How old is your W?

Also you said if you knew she was in MLC pre-BD, you could have stopped it. Can you please elaborate?

I like a certain song lyric I've heard about patience: "Patience is a virtue / Until its silence burns you." Feels apropos to my sitch, probably to yours as well.

She's 41. What I said is if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing. I was putting a lot of pressure on her to make up her mind which did not help. Her MLC would have happened anyway, her problem not mine to solve.

More than patience I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control. Knowing I am helpless to do anything helps more than anything

This is why we push no pressure. No one likes limbo, obviously. But limbo is a gift of time. Time for the WAS to figure out their stuff. Time for the LBS to improve, make self-improvements, to focus on themselves and their kids. Time to become the spouse only a fool would leave. Time to let the open wounds that led to BD, rest and heal.

"if I had known pre-D filing I could have prevented the D filing" then you said "I am focusing on my own acceptance of the situation and letting go of control"

MLCxH, one of the most important things in DBing is to be consistent. Be consistent in action. Be consistent in principle. Be consistent in thinking.

This just hit me like a 2x4 in a brand new way. While limbo completely [censored], it is a gift. Wow, I don't think I had thought of it this way so profoundly yet.

[unchien]

And I just got hit with a 2x4...

What is limbo? Here all along I’ve been thinking limbo is the pre-BD period. As if when BD happens I will escape limbo. And I just realized it might extend all the way until D final.

[Davide]

Unfortunately that is what most of us mean when we refer to limbo. It's that time period where you are still married but to a person who doesn't want the relationship. Most people escape limbo only when they make the decision to move on.

[IronWill]

And I just got hit with a 2x4...

What is limbo? Here all along I’ve been thinking limbo is the pre-BD period. As if when BD happens I will escape limbo. And I just realized it might extend all the way until D final.

The key here is not to focus on a year from now, a month from now, a day from now.

Try to stay as positive as you can. I know it's not easy, I struggle with it too, but try it.

Live right now, not in the future.

Anything is possible, nothing is written in stone. All worrying will do is waste time, and then leave you with the same problems you had when you started worrying.

One day at a time.

[AnotherStander]

Apologies to MLCxH for the slight tangent but...

What is limbo? Here all along I’ve been thinking limbo is the pre-BD period. As if when BD happens I will escape limbo. And I just realized it might extend all the way until D final.

Limbo is nothing more than a state of mind. I've seen people who were still in limbo years after their spouse was gone and the D was in the books. And I've seen people who were not in limbo despite having been BD'd just a month before. Limbo is paralysis. It's operating from a place of fear. It's being afraid to GAL or anything else because the WAS might react negatively to it. Limbo is being hyper focused on the WAS and not yourself. I've seen soooo many people here talk about how they hate being stuck in limbo. My response is "then do something". Why are you dead and still and stagnant and waiting? DO SOMETHING. Marriage isn't who we are. It's one small part of a great tapestry we weave in life. If our marriage goes on the fritz that's no reason to stop weaving. You can weave your life whether you're married or not.

[MLCxH]

After reading through all the responses my will to stand has been weakened. Stability of family for the kids and getting more time with them is a big reason for standing. Otherwise the more I disengage the better I feel and I am starting to question why I am really standing. W has been communicating more from her side and coming with kids and me when we do things like dinner at restaurants but the posts here show made me realize this is not really anywhere close to acceptance and is only because the pressure is off. The number of success stories of reconciliation is also low and I am not sure if it worth wasting more years of my life for someone who does not value me.

Good is the disengaging is helping
Bad is I am losing motivation for reconciliation
Ugly is kids will suffer

Sorry for the rant

[SteveLW]

After reading through all the responses my will to stand has been weakened. Stability of family for the kids and getting more time with them is a big reason for standing. Otherwise the more I disengage the better I feel and I am starting to question why I am really standing. W has been communicating more from her side and coming with kids and me when we do things like dinner at restaurants but the posts here show made me realize this is not really anywhere close to acceptance and is only because the pressure is off. The number of success stories of reconciliation is also low and I am not sure if it worth wasting more years of my life for someone who does not value me.

Good is the disengaging is helping
Bad is I am losing motivation for reconciliation
Ugly is kids will suffer

Sorry for the rant

This is pretty typical. The better you get at acceptance, the more you realize that you will be okay post-D. Lots of people stay together for the kid's sake, but that only will take you so far. Plus kids would rather be from a broken home than in one. So if you are not staying for the right reasons and/or either is she, it could be worse for them in the long run.

MLCxH, these feeling will come and go. I know for the first part of my sitch I would swing between wanting to boot her out on her butt, to wanting nothing more than to reconcile. And it could change in an instant.

The healthiest place to get to is an "either or state". "I will be fine if she stays...I will be fine if she goes!" That is what DBing is for.

I'd also point out that R rates tend to be low because people tend to DB very poorly.

[unchien]

MLCxH -

Your feelings sound completely natural to me. I'm wrestling with similar feelings in my sitch.

Standing is not for the weak of heart. It requires faith that your sitch will evolve, that your W will eventually value you again and your M can return to good health. I believe in the sanctity of M, I believe all M's are tested at some point, and I believe it is worth fighting through these difficult periods. I am not religious, however, and I don't have that extra faith to draw strength from. I am realistic. I have zero idea if or when my W may "come around." And once I see some of these fleeting glimpses of a future happiness on my own, that does weaken the stand.

Also just want to say -- your kids may suffer MORE in an unhappy M.

[oops13]

I feel the same way you do about the poor stats on reconciliation. It seems especially worse when it's the wife who has betrayed the husband in an affair context. If I thought there was a decent chance, I'd be more open to it, but from what I'm seeing the rarity will just feed paranoia.

I don't know what I'll REALLY do myself if/when the time to discuss reconciliation comes. I'd like to think I won't entertain it.

Please don't take this as a vote for what you should do. Just me sharing that I wonder the same things.

[AnotherStander]

The number of success stories of reconciliation is also low

It only seems that way because they usually quit posting once they patch things up. I've been here long enough to see quite a few people come on here for a 2nd time. They patch things up and never even bother to come here to say they successfully reconciled. Then they fall right back into old habits, a few years pass, they get BD'd again and come back here wanting to know what to do. The fast turnarounds usually don't "stick" because the LBS didn't take the time to do real 180's on their faults.

[MLCxH]

Thank you all for your responses and support.

Yes, kids will be unhappy in a broken marriage but the hope is that if reconciliation happens the marriage will be stronger because both of us have grown. That hope is what makes me stand for the sake of the kids long term

We are still living together in different rooms of the same house but not sure for how long since the D has been almost finalized. This at least let's me take care of the kids instead of just a few days at a time. She has stopped complaining and blaming me for her problems. She makes eye contact and initiates conversations. Most of it is because the pressure is off but she definitely seems to respect me more now. Only time will tell but I don't know if I can wait

[oops13]

The number of success stories of reconciliation is also low

It only seems that way because they usually quit posting once they patch things up. I've been here long enough to see quite a few people come on here for a 2nd time. They patch things up and never even bother to come here to say they successfully reconciled. Then they fall right back into old habits, a few years pass, they get BD'd again and come back here wanting to know what to do. The fast turnarounds usually don't "stick" because the LBS didn't take the time to do real 180's on their faults.

This is very inspirational, as someone who basically is assuming I should just walk.

Any more to offer? I cant help but feel like when the wife has a months-long affair that we're just...toast, statistically. (Vs. a man having a one night pump and dump, for example).

[MLCxH]

This thread in the resources is something I missed reading earlier. Looks like this is the first one I should have read.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574

[Cadet]

This thread in the resources is something I missed reading earlier. Looks like this is the first one I should have read.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574

Yeah - pursuit and distance is a good one to read.

[MLCxH]

W seems to be addressing me more by name in conversations and texts. Does that mean anything?

[MLCxH]

At this point I feel I am in the withdrawal stage. Not W but me as the LBS. Able to detach more in my DB efforts but emotional roller coaster of hoping she is getting to acceptance is also high. She is showing more respect to me and has not complained about me for weeks now. But I know she is not close to accpetance since D has been finalized and she did not stop it.

Have to decide if it better to move to separate homes or try to stay in the same home together for longer so that I get more time with kids and give her more time on her MLC journey. She will be cake eating because I will pay most of the expenses. If I am ok with the cake eating should I try live in the same house or move?

[SteveLW]

You said the D is final? Why is she still there? What was the agreement for living arrangements? I'd ask her: "When will you be moving out?" Is she can't afford to keep the current place and pay the bills then it is on her to find some place she can afford.

[MLCxH]

You said the D is final? Why is she still there? What was the agreement for living arrangements? I'd ask her: "When will you be moving out?" Is she can't afford to keep the current place and pay the bills then it is on her to find some place she can afford.

She is still there because I told her she can stay for longer so the kids are in the same house. She said she will pay me a small portion of the expenses. Not much but with the D every extra single cent is helpful to me given alimony, child support and attorney fees. She will move out if I ask her to but then reconnection becomes harder.

[MLCxH]

What I would like help with is input on whether to try and stay in the house together and continue to DB is better or separating. At this point I am accepting that it is her journey. She is not crossing any boundaries and I dont mind her being in the house as a roommate. If in the future I decide I dont want to stand I can ask her to move. But there have to be some downsides and I would like some input on that. One friend said separate houses is the best path to reconnecting but I am not sure.

[unchien]

MLCxH -

This is going to sound harsh, I am sorry.

What you describe does not sound like DB'ing. It sounds like cake eating.

She fired you as her H.

There is a difference between standing for your R, and letting your XW get her way by staying in the house and "playing family.". You are still chasing, you are justifying yourself that it is okay because it helps financially. Unless you accept and understand that you are making decisions driven by your desire to reconnect, you are not DB'ing.

If in the future I decide I dont want to stand I can ask her to move.

How does asking her to move mean you are not standing? One could argue by letting her live in the house you are not standing. You are not letting her go.

Listen, I make these mistakes all the time, I'm not trying to judge you. This stuff is awful. You are focusing on reconnection as a goal. THAT is the problem. Think about YOU. Maybe your W had complaints about you, and you can work on changing those things, but those also should not be your sole focus.

I'm concerned you are falling into the emotional codependency trap of looking to your W to feel better about yourself. I'm fighting that fight myself.

[MLCxH]

MLCxH -

This is going to sound harsh, I am sorry.

No apology needed. I want honest feedback to knock sense into me given the emotions attached to this

MLCxH -

What you describe does not sound like DB'ing. It sounds like cake eating.

My DB continues. I did not fight the D and I am detaching. This is a decision I am trying to make without emotions

MLCxH -

She fired you as her H.

There is a difference between standing for your R, and letting your XW get her way by staying in the house and "playing family.".

I am not playing family with her. I am playing family with the kids. I get to see them everyday and will have very less time with them once she moves out

MLCxH -

How does asking her to move mean you are not standing?

As I detach more I am less motivated to stand for the MR. If she moves out and I get used to less time with the kids I will likely move on with my life

MLCxH -

I'm concerned you are falling into the emotional codependency trap of looking to your W to feel better about yourself. I'm fighting that fight myself.

Yes, there are emotions attached with saving the family but no emotions for W herself. It is a practical decision for me regarding kids and finances. I will be subletting the home to a roommate and I get to coparent. But I am still standing for the marriage for the kids so I want to figure out if this helps with reconnection or makes it worse. Just trying to learn from the vets experience so that I can make an informed decision

[Destroyd]

MLCxH, I completely understand wanting to do everything to spend more time with your children. I keep thinking how evil it is that a spouse could even consider stealing your kids away from the other parent for 50% or more of the time. The time for raising children is so short, and one of the most precious duties a person can have. So, whether or not it is proper DBing, I completely understand how you feel.

[AnotherStander]

What I would like help with is input on whether to try and stay in the house together and continue to DB is better or separating. At this point I am accepting that it is her journey. She is not crossing any boundaries and I dont mind her being in the house as a roommate. If in the future I decide I dont want to stand I can ask her to move. But there have to be some downsides and I would like some input on that. One friend said separate houses is the best path to reconnecting but I am not sure.

It is very unusual for a couple to reconcile after BD while living under the same roof. Most recons don't happen until after a lengthy separation. As long as she remains under your roof as a roommate nothing is likely to ever change. You will be stuck like that indefinitely. I'm not saying to kick her out, that's your choice to make. Just trying to answer your question on what to expect.

[MLCxH]

MLCxH, I completely understand wanting to do everything to spend more time with your children. I keep thinking how evil it is that a spouse could even consider stealing your kids away from the other parent for 50% or more of the time. The time for raising children is so short, and one of the most precious duties a person can have. So, whether or not it is proper DBing, I completely understand how you feel.

Thanks! Without kids in the picture my decision would be so much easier

[MLCxH]

What I would like help with is input on whether to try and stay in the house together and continue to DB is better or separating. At this point I am accepting that it is her journey. She is not crossing any boundaries and I dont mind her being in the house as a roommate. If in the future I decide I dont want to stand I can ask her to move. But there have to be some downsides and I would like some input on that. One friend said separate houses is the best path to reconnecting but I am not sure.

It is very unusual for a couple to reconcile after BD while living under the same roof. Most recons don't happen until after a lengthy separation. As long as she remains under your roof as a roommate nothing is likely to ever change. You will be stuck like that indefinitely. I'm not saying to kick her out, that's your choice to make. Just trying to answer your question on what to expect.

Thank you! This is the feedback I was looking for. If things wont change with her as a roommate it gives me reasons to reduce the cake eating by asking her to share more expenses or other things even if I don't kick her out. I wanted to know this because when I make demands to reduce the cake eating she may pack up and leave herself and I wanted to be sure that her leaving was the right thing and not feel guilty that I messed up later.

I may still let her cake eat for the sake of the kids but I want to take steps to reduce the cake eating rather than stay with the status quo.

Any other feedback is appreciated since this is a hard step for me. Good news is once I take the step it will be another big step and there is no turning back or second guessing

[MLCxH]

I went dark and stopped responding to W's messages. After the first day she has now gone dark in return and there has been no communication the last two days. I thought going dark would help me detach more but it only seems to bring up more emotions and I have been trying to understand what is happening in her head the past two days. I have not shown her any emotions but privately by detachment has taken two steps backward.

[ovrrnbw]

You said the D is final? Why is she still there? What was the agreement for living arrangements? I'd ask her: "When will you be moving out?" Is she can't afford to keep the current place and pay the bills then it is on her to find some place she can afford.

She is still there because I told her she can stay for longer so the kids are in the same house. She said she will pay me a small portion of the expenses. Not much but with the D every extra single cent is helpful to me given alimony, child support and attorney fees. She will move out if I ask her to but then reconnection becomes harder.

I think reconnection is going to be harder when she sees your attitude is "reconnection becomes harder if she moves out". She knows she still has you as backup. It shows her that even though the D is final on paper that it isn't in your mind. If you had moved on, you wouldn't live with an ex, it'd be too weird. Plus it'd get in the way of your life.

It's not "going dark" when you don't text for a couple days but still live together.

MLCxH, I completely understand wanting to do everything to spend more time with your children. I keep thinking how evil it is that a spouse could even consider stealing your kids away from the other parent for 50% or more of the time. The time for raising children is so short, and one of the most precious duties a person can have. So, whether or not it is proper DBing, I completely understand how you feel.

Destroyd,

I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not "stealing" just b/c someone gets a divorce. You don't own kids and you don't have exclusive 100% custody no matter what. I understand your statement to be a reflection of the pain we have all been in, so I don't knock you for saying that. But just thinking about the emotions you're feeling I totally get where you're coming from.

[FlySolo]

MLCxH - I haven't read back through your whole thread, so apologies if I repeat something that has already been said or if I misunderstand your sitch.

On living apart/living together. Living in a toxic environment is living in a toxic environment. Even if you are playing happy families in front of the kids, even if you smile and are cordial to one another, that resentment is still simmering under the surface. Every time they are late home, every time their phone beeps, every time they say they are going out, YOU will be wondering who they are with, what they are doing. It takes up so much head space that you just can't think straight. And that's just you. To them, everything you do will be wrong because that is where their head is at. Perception bias. You buy them flowers, you are manipulating them, you don't buy them flowers, you are an insensitive [censored] who never does anything nice.

People think if they stay living together the WAW will see their 180's and want to come back. Right now, your 180's don't mean [censored] to her. To her, you are trying to manipulate her into coming back and manipulation = pressure. Your 180's are for you. They will start to notice them a) once they too are able to look at the marriage objectively and b) they see the 180's consistently being applied over a long period of time.

Also, 2 days of going dark is nothing. Like 180's it has to be applied over a long period of time before they stop thinking it's manipulation and realize you are serious. Personally, I am not a fan of going dark. It feels wrong to me. Rude somehow and would probably only ever apply it if my H spouted hatred and vitriol at me.

[AnotherStander]

^^^Great posts by ovrrnbw and FS!^^^

[MLCxH]

Thank you for the feedback

I think reconnection is going to be harder when she sees your attitude is "reconnection becomes harder if she moves out". She knows she still has you as backup. It shows her that even though the D is final on paper that it isn't in your mind. If you had moved on, you wouldn't live with an ex, it'd be too weird. Plus it'd get in the way of your life.

Because I did not fight the divorce things moved very quickly in a matter of months. I dont think either of us has had the time to process the emotions associated with the divorce because of how easy and quick it was. I feel that is a strong statement I made that I was willing to drop the rope and let her go. But based on the responses so far I am sensing a common trend that is telling me she needs to be out of the house.

The problem I have is like many others here my world became smaller the last 10 years and my 'way of life' has focused on family and kids. My GAL has mostly been work and more time with kids without W and that is what makes it harder.

MLCxH, I completely understand wanting to do everything to spend more time with your children. I keep thinking how evil it is that a spouse could even consider stealing your kids away from the other parent for 50% or more of the time. The time for raising children is so short, and one of the most precious duties a person can have. So, whether or not it is proper DBing, I completely understand how you feel.

Destroyd,

I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not "stealing" just b/c someone gets a divorce. You don't own kids and you don't have exclusive 100% custody no matter what. I understand your statement to be a reflection of the pain we have all been in, so I don't knock you for saying that. But just thinking about the emotions you're feeling I totally get where you're coming from.

I personally dont worry as much about my time with kids as their time with me. She is not stealing the kids from me but stealing the kids from time with their father for her selfish reasons. I am happy I at least had the sense not to fight over the kids and gave her more than 50% time with them in the divorce.

MLCxH - I haven't read back through your whole thread, so apologies if I repeat something that has already been said or if I misunderstand your sitch.

On living apart/living together. Living in a toxic environment is living in a toxic environment. Even if you are playing happy families in front of the kids, even if you smile and are cordial to one another, that resentment is still simmering under the surface. Every time they are late home, every time their phone beeps, every time they say they are going out, YOU will be wondering who they are with, what they are doing. It takes up so much head space that you just can't think straight. And that's just you. To them, everything you do will be wrong because that is where their head is at. Perception bias. You buy them flowers, you are manipulating them, you don't buy them flowers, you are an insensitive [censored] who never does anything nice.

Thank you, this is good feedback. I have been able to detach more and more from caring what she does, where she goes and that has not been an issue. We are more like roommates at this point and that has helped take the tension out and more so after the D since it rid all expectations. I do worry about how long this can continue though and know that at some point we need to go our separate ways. But when that happens I wont be a LBS just a ex-husband

Also, 2 days of going dark is nothing. Like 180's it has to be applied over a long period of time before they stop thinking it's manipulation and realize you are serious. Personally, I am not a fan of going dark. It feels wrong to me. Rude somehow and would probably only ever apply it if my H spouted hatred and vitriol at me.

I agree. It was big for me because it is the first time in months that we have gone 2 days with no texts or conversations. She is traveling and not at home for over a week.

People think if they stay living together the WAW will see their 180's and want to come back. Right now, your 180's don't mean [censored] to her. To her, you are trying to manipulate her into coming back and manipulation = pressure. Your 180's are for you. They will start to notice them a) once they too are able to look at the marriage objectively and b) they see the 180's consistently being applied over a long period of time.

She has noticed my 180s and commented on them. I started working out after the BD and she has made multiple comments about my looking good after she left me. She is more respectful to me now and even broke down 2 weeks ago and talked about how much I had loved her and taken care of her all these years. This was a change from a year of hearing how I had only made her life miserable throughout the marriage.

[MLCxH]

It has been an emotional roller coaster with W moving out. Second guessing a lot of decisions like getting stuck with a unaffordable house in the D because I wanted to protect my castle which will make it a tough few years financially. Biggest concern is how the kids will react to their new lives and having less of me in their daily lives.

Dumbfounded by how W who did not show any initiative on any tasks during MR has done a 180 in taking strong initiative on all the steps to get away from me. She is financially set from the D settlement for a long time but life is still going to be harder than it was when we were together. In her mind she everything is worth being able to get away from me. What is hard for me to accept is that she sees me as a changed person but still wants to run away. She behaves normally with and does not show any anger or resentment. But she won't give a new R between us a chance even though she admits things are different now. DB, GAL and other efforts have all been overwhelmed by emotions at this point.

[AnotherStander]

Hang in there, this is a big transition to go through! It sounds like your W is acknowledging your changes and that is GOOD! This soon it's not unusual for to take the "it's too little too late" attitude. But that can and probably will change later. With time she may very well decide the best thing in her life was who she left behind. The real question is by the time it takes her to get to that point, will you still be interested. Often the answer is "no".

[job]

I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your subject line within a thread.

[MLCxH]

Hang in there, this is a big transition to go through!

Thank you AS. I have been really depressed the past few days. As much as I had detached from W it is hard to cope when the family officially breaks into two.

It sounds like your W is acknowledging your changes and that is GOOD! This soon it's not unusual for to take the "it's too little too late" attitude. But that can and probably will change later. With time she may very well decide the best thing in her life was who she left behind.

I agree it is probably too soon at this point given it has only been 6 months since I started my 180s and maybe only 3 months of DB efforts. My strength broke down and I did end up having a heated emotional discussion with her a few days ago but eventually picked myself up again and started acting contented in front of her even if I was still broken on the inside. The encouraging thing is she is no longer angry with me and is respectful in her conversations. There is no OM in the picture. But we have made two big transitions with the D and I am losing hope of R because her mind seems made up. Let us hope with the space she gets now she has time to reconsider her decision.

The real question is by the time it takes her to get to that point, will you still be interested. Often the answer is "no".

The D in my mind only meant paperwork for legal and financial matters. I am no different from the other standers otherwise. My kids are the only reason I am still standing at this time. Still not planning to date anyone else or move forward with my life other than GAL but it depends on how much time she really takes. At some point life forces you to move in another direction even if you dont plan on it.

[unchien]

Let us hope with the space she gets now she has time to reconsider her decision.

AHA! Caught red-handed!

Keep in mind the Zen state we all endeavor to reach - R hope is the enemy. Reconciliation, no reconciliation, MLCxH is going to be AMOAFWL regardless.

Release the hope, you release the anger and depression. It drives you in the right direction, even though it feels wrong.

[MLCxH]

I am guilty as charged UC! These past few days have been hard and I am trying to get through one hour at a time. I dont have any anger towards her though.

On the other hand, hope is the only thing I have left. I have been detaching and not fighting anything. While I did not make it easy for her, I did not resist anything. The D is final, no more IHS and we have our own lives which will give a lot more space to her. Once I release the hope there is only AMOAFWL for my next R with someone else. I dont think I am at a point where I want to move on. While legally I am D, from a religious and emotional angle I am still standing for the family and that is what makes it hard.

[MLCxH]

Getting too many mixed signals from exW that is making it hard for me. She is talking well, being respectful, going out of the way to do things for me. At the same time she is resolute in her decision to end the MR. I guess these are temp checks but they are consistent actions and it is driving me crazy. Is this normal? How do I deal with this?

[LH19]

MLC,

Not normal but I deal with the same thing. My ex mulched my entire yard a week before moving out. She’s the first to text me happy birthday, Father’s Day etc. Heck she spent more on me for Fathers Day then she ever did while married. Many other examples. How do you deal with it? You shrug your shoulders and keep living the single life. If she changes her mind you’ll know and then YOU get to decide how you want to proceed. Some of them do feel guilty about blowing up the family and some want to keep the road home smooth just in case the grass isn’t greener.

[MLCxH]

MLC,

Not normal but I deal with the same thing. My ex mulched my entire yard a week before moving out. She’s the first to text me happy birthday, Father’s Day etc. Heck she spent more on me for Fathers Day then she ever did while married. Many other examples. How do you deal with it? You shrug your shoulders and keep living the single life. If she changes her mind you’ll know and then YOU get to decide how you want to proceed. Some of them do feel guilty about blowing up the family and some want to keep the road home smooth just in case the grass isn’t greener.

LH, Thanks. Do you mind telling me how long it has been since you ex moved out? Has she increased her being nice over time or has it been the same or less since she moved out?

I find it to be absolutely crazy. Almost seems like she wants to behave like my W other than physical intimacy part but at the same time she does not want to be married to me either.

[LH19]

She’s been out 11 months. It’s been pretty consistent maybe increasing a little but luckily it doesn’t have an effect on me.

You should be use to crazy by now lol.

Detach Detach Detach.

[AnotherStander]

Yes, what LH said. My XW kept buying me presents for bday and Christmas (said they were from the kids but they rarely knew what was even in the boxes) and was generally nice to me, in fact has gotten nicer over the years. You just keep doing you, and be happy she's not being the raving B*** that some of the poor souls on here have to deal with.

By the way that's not mixed signals. Just because she's being nice to you doesn't mean she wants to be married to you.

LH, Thanks. Do you mind telling me how long it has been since you ex moved out? Has she increased her being nice over time or has it been the same or less since she moved out?

My timeline is much longer than LH's, and like I said she's gotten nicer over the years. No attempt to reconcile though.

[LH19]

Yep like AS said “be thankful” because there are some real doozies on here. I am actually very grateful I have the ex that I do.

[MLCxH]

Thank you LH and AS. That is actually discouraging to be honest. I am starting to wonder why what we are doing is called divorce busting instead of something like 'healing after divorce'. If W is noticing our 180s, not angry and even happy to be connected to us but at the same time wants to be divorced there is no busting the divorce, just moving on right?

[LH19]

M,

DB is about making needed changes and making yourself stronger which in turn will give yourself the best chance to attract your W/Ex back. The truth of the matter is by the time you get here it’s usually too late. Also, most here are unable to implement proper DB because it’s counterintuitive. Then there is the entire timeframe of the process. I truly believe over a 5 year period more then half will get a chance to reconcile but most won’t because it’s too late. Once time goes by you will realize life is too short to want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with you. (Read my tagline)

I’ve quoted on here before a quote by coach Nick Sabin of Alabama “when decisions are made based on emotions there are bound to be consequences”. Your W most likely at some point will regret her decision. It most likely won’t be on your timeline.

Also understand that there are people on here who are piecing and that is no picnic either. Bluewave, Steve and Gordie are struggling in their sitches.

[MLCxH]

I truly believe over a 5 year period more then half will get a chance to reconcile but most won’t because it’s too late. Once time goes by you will realize life is too short to want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with you. (Read my tagline)
.

I agree with what you said LH. Life is too short to be waiting for someone who does not want you. It's a shame because while the MR was not perfect it was not broken to the extent of D either. Even today exW does not know why she wanted the D. She has convinced herself by rewriting history but I guess that is all it takes. It's sad and depressing when you realize you have no control. DB is the only thing I can do but all it helps me with is to detach and move on. Again, what else can I really do other than detach and move on

[LH19]

Yep I had a tough time accepting one person could make a decision for 4. What has helped me immensely is understanding that my ex is not a horrible person she is just trying to be happy. She has one life to live and should be able to live it her way. I wouldn’t want her to stay if she’s unhappy. I have friends who are staying married for the kids and their lives are horrible. You’ll get there it just takes time.

[MLCxH]

Yep I had a tough time accepting one person could make a decision for 4..

That is such a great way to put it. So true. Not a surprise because in this state of mind they are selfish and only thinking about themselves

[Destroyd]

Boy, LH, your statement "I had a tough time accepting one person could make a decision for 4" really hits home. I keep having similar thoughts. I can't believe my W is willing to destroy this family we have created together. There is so much love in our house that she is going to implode. I pray that my children will be okay through this. It so isn't fair that they have to live with such a unexplainable decision.

[LH19]

MLC,

Just read your entire sitch and am curious why you think your W is in MLC? Not sure I see the signs. Also, can you add a signature with years together, married and kids ages?

[AnotherStander]

Thank you LH and AS. That is actually discouraging to be honest. I am starting to wonder why what we are doing is called divorce busting instead of something like 'healing after divorce'. If W is noticing our 180s, not angry and even happy to be connected to us but at the same time wants to be divorced there is no busting the divorce, just moving on right?

A lot more divorces would be busted if people got here just a little sooner than they do. 6 months to a year before BD a lot of these situations could be curbed before BD happens. But like LH said, once someone has been BD'd then the chances of saving the M are quite slim. So the focus changes from trying to save THAT marriage to trying to help people become "the spouse only a fool would leave" in the hopes that they can build a new R with that person down the road. So yes in a sense you are right that it's "healing after D" but we're not telling you to give up all hope on recon. We're just saying it's probably not going to happen on the timeline YOU want it to.

I think there's a forward in DR where Michele mentions she regrets not clarifying the timeline for DB'ing, that a lot of people read Divorce Busting and had the impression it was a fast process saving the M when in fact it can take a significant amount of time. Her rough estimate was to expect a month of work for every year of marriage, which would put most people in a year+ timeframe that we often mention. But every situation is unique and the timeline can be shorter or much longer.

The beauty of DB'ing is you start all of this self-improvement with the goal of rebuilding your M, but by the time you heal and become stronger and more confident, we've given you the tools for a far better R no matter who it is with. People sometimes complain there aren't enough "success stories" but nearly everyone on here eventually is a success story even if their M isn't saved.

When I came here I was in horrible shape, as bad or worse than anyone else here. Just absolutely despondent. I could see no path forward other than saving my M, it was either that or count the days until blessed death closed my eyes. Now it all just seems like a bad dream, almost like someone else went through it rather than me. The W that I thought I couldn't live without is just a friend now, a coparent to our kids. I'm physically and mentally stronger, I'm no longer codependent on her or anyone else, my career has thrived, I'm financially independent and stable, I have a fantastic relationship with my kids and I have an awesome young girlfriend that I really enjoy spending time with. DB'ing is what got me there, I mean I did all the "heavy lifting" but before DB'ing I had no idea what to do. DB'ing was my roadmap, my plan of action. It gives you order at a time you feel like you're living in chaos.

Then there is the entire timeframe of the process. I truly believe over a 5 year period more then half will get a chance to reconcile but most won’t because it’s too late. Once time goes by you will realize life is too short to want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with you. (Read my tagline)

Exactly right. Many (maybe most) LBS's eventually do get an opportunity to reconcile and turn it down. Some because they "don't want to go through that again" and others because when someone refuses to love you, well eventually you quit loving them too. It's hard for most newer LBS's to believe that they will ever fall out of love with their WAS, but it absolutely does happen.

[MLCxH]

Boy, LH, your statement "I had a tough time accepting one person could make a decision for 4" really hits home. I keep having similar thoughts. I can't believe my W is willing to destroy this family we have created together. There is so much love in our house that she is going to implode. I pray that my children will be okay through this. It so isn't fair that they have to live with such a unexplainable decision.

I feel exactly the same in my sitch

[MLCxH]

MLC,

Just read your entire sitch and am curious why you think your W is in MLC? Not sure I see the signs.

LH,Thank you for taking the time to read through my entire sitch. That means a lot.

Some more details on my sitch
She was emotionally dependent on me for almost everything though 10 years of marriage. Then she started showing signs of trying to pursue happiness away from me. I did not see it earlier but I think I can see her denial stage now. We started doing more things outside the house, she never liked alcohol much but started drinking multiple days a week. She acted happy but I think she needed the alcohol to pretend she was happy with me. We had a big fight a year ago and she said she was not happy being with me. She started rewriting history and blaming me. I got upset and we both mentioned the D word and I consider this to be my official BD. When things cooled down, I apologized but we were in IHS now. I gave her "some" space but was still trying to win her back. She seemed depressed and would shut herself in her room most of the time. I did some 180s but not correctly. Eventually we had another fight 8 months later and she filed. It was only then I realized how badly I wanted to save the MR. I made all the mistakes - begging, pleading. She listened, gave me a talk on rewritten history, ILYBNILWY, the works. Later, I found this forum and started giving her space. Things improved and the tension got down but she did not want to back off from the D. The Ls kept the process going forward at a fast pace but I decided not to fight or resist the D and in 3 months the D was done just like that. Over the past 3 months she has become more friendly. She is now showing me respect and initiating conversations but still moved out.

Why I think she is in MLC
Her father was away from home for extended periods of time when she was growing up. Classic set up to be a chaos kid. The progression of events seem to fit the MLC pattern. While the MR was not perfect she was happy to be a SAHM focused on kids and family. I can also see clear signs of her being in denial and anger stages. The replay was mostly focused on her trying to start a new career. I have no idea where she is now or if she is in MLC at all.


Why she may not be in MLC
She is not wayward. She has not abandoned the kids. On the contrary she has been more focused on them. She has been selfish but not vindictive or hateful towards me

[MLCxH]

Exactly right. Many (maybe most) LBS's eventually do get an opportunity to reconcile and turn it down. Some because they "don't want to go through that again" and others because when someone refuses to love you, well eventually you quit loving them too. It's hard for most newer LBS's to believe that they will ever fall out of love with their WAS, but it absolutely does happen.

Thanks AS. At this point I still love my family and I would take her back to keep the wonderful thing we build over 10 years. But you are right that with time things are likely to change. One of the reasons for my "desperation" is that I know I cannot wait forever and I fear losing what I have because I decided to move on The confusing thing is she still shows signs of love and that is preventing me from moving on and driving me crazy. I guess time and space will help me also

[LH19]

Wow your situation is a lot like mine. My w was dependent on me for everything the first 15 years. She didn’t have many close friends and her sister was out of town. That turned into she lost her identity and she was just LH’s husband. The funny thing is now she is dependent on her parents. She does everything with them.

She still respects you so that is good. Women can’t love a man they don’t respect. Sandi is a big advocate of that statement. All my advice on here revolves around respect. Guys that hand over their balls and rollover like a doormat have no chance.

You have to set her free and live your life like she’s never coming back. Isn’t that the true testament of love? Giving her what she asked for with zero resistance.

[MLCxH]

Wow your situation is a lot like mine. My w was dependent on me for everything the first 15 years. She didn’t have many close friends and her sister was out of town. That turned into she lost her identity and she was just LH’s husband. The funny thing is now she is dependent on her parents. She does everything with them.

Wow, that is crazy. My W also is depending on her parents now emotionally. Sad thing is her parents are enabling her by "being there for her" and trying to get back control over her life by magnifying her history rewriting about how I am to blame for her decision to D and she is blameless in this whole thing.

You have to set her free and live your life like she’s never coming back. Isn’t that the true testament of love? Giving her what she asked for with zero resistance.

Would be so much easier to love her that way if I did not have two blameless kids suffering the consequences of this

[sandi2]

I'm a little late to the party, so I'll try to catch up with your story. I may make a few comments along the way.

It took me more than 9 months after the bomb drop to realize my wife was in MLC.

Was this before or after you read Divorce Remedy?

Originally Posted by IronWill
Wow. I just learned a ton in these few posts.
My W is at a similar point. 9 months in here. 2-3 months of full understanding on my part. My W is also in crisis, but I'm thinking she is MLC, WAS and/or perimenopause all combined.

I forgot to mention my wife is at perimenopause also. Seems like a very similar situation. I also often wonder if my wife is in crisis due to a combination of the three.

Guys, perimenopause is not a crisis. It is a transition. Like any other transition in life, the individual can turn everyone's life upside down by trying to make their personal transition a crisis.......but the actual perimenopause isn't----or shouldn't be a crisis in a woman's life.

Also, if you try to label your W as having MLC, WAW, WW and a mix of other conditions.........you will be confused when reading advice on the board as to what you should do, and you'll be making up your own rules (so to speak) b/c you see her as exceptional.

From everything I have read the MLC rewriting the history of the marriage with the spouse as the villiam seems to be very common. Trying to talk logic or explain why they are wrong only makes things worse.

This is common for the MLC, WAW, and WW. They all bear some similar symptoms.

IMHO, most LBH's who first come to the board will diagnose their W as a WAW or having a MLC, b/c those are the two that MWD writes about in her books. If the W seems to be acting extremely out of character, the H comes to the conclusion she must be having a MLC. If you will read my threads (Help for the newcomer LBH who has a WW), I give my opinion in the differences of a WAW and a wayward W (which MWD does not separate the two in her books). On the first page, I list a few of the characteristics of a WW.

The following was posted on another thread:

Originally Posted by sandi2

Quote
Despite her anger and walls being up I still seem to sense some kind of love, or hesitation of her decisions, or something??? Tough to explain but there is something about her that seems not completely willing to let go of relationship/family. Its really weird.

Sorry to tell you, but this is mostly what you want to see in her. ((hugs)) Apply what I just said above about her benefiting. If she is hesitating, it is b/c she benefits financially, emotionally, or physically.

Sandi, does this apply even if she is not wayward? I see similar signs of love in my exW and desire to play family but difference is her anger has decreased and is rarely angry. She goes out of the way to do nice things but is resolute about the end of the MR.

My answer is yes. As previously stated, whether WAW, WW or MLCW, there are similarities. There's the pursuit--distance, roller coaster ride, depression, uncertainty, anger, etc. (FWIW, I do believe there are slight differences between the female's experience and male's, based on the core differences in the sexes.) The woman looks at how she will benefit the best. Her reasons may not seem right or logical to the H, but this is about her.

IMHO, the three "categories" (if I may use that term) have some distinction. The WW has a hidden agenda when she leaves the MR. She is filled with resentment & disrespect toward her H. It's not someone else from her childhood, nor is it a reaction to some recent tragedy that sent her into a MLC.........it is all about her husband. She is so full of anger for her H. By the time she is "done", she will be acting out in some type of rebellion, such as Girls Gone Wild, or in some type of an affair, or shopping around for one. She compromises the character she once had, and starts showing signs of someone the H does not recognize. She is a deceiver, a betrayer and a liar. Selfishness and a sense of entitlement reign supreme in the WW. The WW doesn't want to do anything to work/save the M!! Cooperation is not found in her. She is what some authors refer to as the hard-hearted wife. No gentle/soft, nice-guy type of actions will draw back a wayward W. Tough love is required by the LBH, b/c of the disrespect his WW holds for him. Disrespect is the root of waywardness......and it's all aimed at how she sees her H being a man. Her negative, judgmental, unforgiving, & self-centered attitude builds the walls between her & the LBH.

The WAW, IMHO, doesn't have a selfish/hidden agenda when she wants out of the M. Depending on the reasons why she left, she is more likely to cooperate in reconciliation. She's not trying to act like a teenager, nor dress like one. And the big difference in the WAW is that her character doesn't change. Her values don't take a dive, just b/c she walks away from the M. Usually, the WAW will not forsake her children .......whereas the WW & MLCW have been known to do (not all do). The WAW usually has a H who has made her (and/or her children) life intolerable, and walking away seems to be the only option if he doesn't change. The WAW is usually more cooperative with the LBH (kids schedule, etc.). She is usually more about fairness, than a WW or MLCW. IMHO, it's b/c her mindset is not comparable to the WW & MLCW.

The MLCW has similar outward characteristics (dressing younger, acting like GGW, etc.) as the WW. She has anger, but it's not just her H. Unlike the WW, her issues are not about him. Something usually triggers fear in the MLC. It could be a recent tragedy, or something else that throws her into this fear, depression, & anger. The MLCW is usually afraid of something she doesn't want to face........such as getting old, death, or...... a hidden/unresolved issue she experienced in the past. That's why we can often connect some childhood trauma or abuse with the MLCW. We've seen cases of child abuse, abandonment, rape victims, etc., where they never received any therapy.......and then years later, something would trigger them into MLC. Generally, we see the MLCW become involved in an affair.

I think the same basic principles of DB are applicable, whichever category fits your W. With the WW, however, tougher love has to be shown....due to the issue being rooted in a lack of respect for her H.

Obviously, I said more about the WW than the others. This is the area I have personally experienced, and observed/studied the most for the past twelve years.

These are my opinions, and I am not trying to distort or override any of MWD's work. If you have studied the topic of MLC sufficiently and believe it describes your W, then it might be beneficial to join the MLC forum. However, I'm not trying to push you over there.

[LH19]

MLC,

We have discussed it on the board in the past, it is not enabling it is being a good parent. You would do the same.

My Father in law was dead set against the D. He mows her lawn every week. He’s just helping his daughter.

I have no ill will against my in laws.

[MLCxH]

Thank you, Sandi. This is very helpful and clears up a lot of confusion for me.

I'm a little late to the party, so I'll try to catch up with your story. I may make a few comments along the way.

It took me more than 9 months after the bomb drop to realize my wife was in MLC.

Was this before or after you read Divorce Remedy?

This was after I read it. However, based on your post I am thinking my wife is more a WAW . There probably is some midlife crisis or transition that made things worse, but she seems to fit WAW more. I also agree the labeling did not help since I started making up my own rules as you correctly said

IMHO, the three "categories" (if I may use that term) have some distinction.

The WAW, IMHO, doesn't have a selfish/hidden agenda when she wants out of the M. Depending on the reasons why she left, she is more likely to cooperate in reconciliation. She's not trying to act like a teenager, nor dress like one. And the big difference in the WAW is that her character doesn't change. Her values don't take a dive, just b/c she walks away from the M. Usually, the WAW will not forsake her children .......whereas the WW & MLCW have been known to do (not all do). The WAW usually has a H who has made her (and/or her children) life intolerable, and walking away seems to be the only option if he doesn't change. The WAW is usually more cooperative with the LBH (kids schedule, etc.). She is usually more about fairness, than a WW or MLCW. IMHO, it's b/c her mindset is not comparable to the WW & MLCW.

This explanation helps a lot and I feel it fits my W more than the other two categories. She has not been trying to dress like a teenager. If anything, she has been dressing up less than she used to. While my intentions have always been good, in her mind she views me as having made her life intolerable. She feels the only way she can be happy is to get away from me and that is what she is doing She has noticed my 180s but I guess 3 months is not sufficient time for her to pull back from a big decision like filing for D.

I think the same basic principles of DB are applicable, whichever category fits your W. With the WW, however, tougher love has to be shown....due to the issue being rooted in a lack of respect for her H.

I have noticed that when I show tough love, it actually pushes her away. This may be consistent with her being a WAW instead of an MLC. That being said I need to focus on the basic principles of DB and keep moving forward as you said.

Thanks once again, Sandi. This post at least helps me keep my shortcomings in the MR in perspective and get over any anger I have left for W for walking away.

[MLCxH]

MLC,

We have discussed it on the board in the past, it is not enabling it is being a good parent. You would do the same.

My Father in law was dead set against the D. He mows her lawn every week. He’s just helping his daughter.

I have no ill will against my in laws.

LH,
I have no issues with their being good parents. The problem is they have always looked out for their personal benefit even if it meant their daughter suffered. They are narcissists and always resented the loss of control over their daughter once she had a family of her own

[MLCxH]

LH,
I read through your entire sitch. Amazing you were able to stand for that long till she filed. Also interesting that you both were intimate till you put a stop to it. That is very unusual because your sitch was like a normal couple even during IHS and yet it ended. Gives me less hope for reconciliation but I need to stop thinking about R and focus on detaching.

When did you finally tell your kids and how did they react and eventually cope?

[LH19]

M,

Yeah that’s why I always advise just because there being nice and acting normal to not think anything changed. The sex started one night when we attended my daughters Cheerleading banquet and they had an open bar look. Went home and one thing lead to another. The thing was I never said anything. Got up went for a run and then left for the day. It had been about 7 months of zero relationship talks so zero pressure. After the last time getting punched in the nuts I was never going to let that happen again. I truly think she had doubts in the end but it had gone to far. She bought a house told her parents and spent a lot on lawyer fees.

When we told the kids like most things in the process it wasn’t as bad as I imagined. My ex cried and my daughter cried. My son didn’t say much. My daughter asked if we would ever get married again and my ex responded “I don’t know”. My kids struggled a little early on but have adjusted fine the last 6 months. My ex and I are very amicable we sit together at games and events and I’ll joke with her sometimes. I don’t get personal with her but will talk about kids, weather etc.

If she came to me today to reconcile I’m not sure what I would do. I feel I should at least have one relationship first to see if I just want what I can’t have. Been dating for about 9 months but nothing lasted more then 3-4 dates. Not sure if I’m too picky or not ready or what’s up. I just made a date while typing this out lol. I will never ever pursue her. If it were to happen she would have to come to me and meet certain conditions for reconciliation. Again I think she gave up a lot, spent a lot of money and burned a lot of bridges to admit she was wrong after 11 months.

RESPECT is the key. If your ex has it for you then you will have a chance. It’s just probably not going to happen on your timeline.

Workout, read to learn and get to know and fall in love with yourself and the rest will work itself out. There are a lot of great things about being single. Enjoy them. Get outside your comfort zone. I promise you that you won’t regret it.

[AnotherStander]

^^^All I've got to say to that is YUP^^^

[MLCxH]

I truly think she had doubts in the end but it had gone to far. She bought a house told her parents and spent a lot on lawyer fees.

Ultimately I think this is what will prevent R between me and W. There was a moment during the last stages of the D process where it was obvious that she wanted to give this a second chance. I could see it clearly in her eyes and body language that she was close but she could not pull the trigger and let everything go forward. In her mind she has gone too far to second guess her decision. She has convinced herself that this is the right decision so she is going to overlook anything that says otherwise. She walked across the bridge and burned it in her mind and swimming back against the tide is going to be hard.

M,

When we told the kids like most things in the process it wasn’t as bad as I imagined. My ex cried and my daughter cried. My son didn’t say much. My daughter asked if we would ever get married again and my ex responded “I don’t know”. My kids struggled a little early on but have adjusted fine the last 6 months. My ex and I are very amicable we sit together at games and events and I’ll joke with her sometimes. I don’t get personal with her but will talk about kids, weather etc.

This is encouraging. I am confident about moving on from her but breaking the stable family for the kids is what has been giving me nightmares. Hoping that my kids will also be able to cope. I am told kids are resilient and I should not worry. Let me hope that is the case.

M,

If she came to me today to reconcile I’m not sure what I would do. I feel I should at least have one relationship first to see if I just want what I can’t have. Been dating for about 9 months but nothing lasted more then 3-4 dates. Not sure if I’m too picky or not ready or what’s up. I just made a date while typing this out lol.

I know what you mean. Being picky is not a bad thing at least when you get started. Good luck on your date - maybe she is the one

M,
RESPECT is the key. If your ex has it for you then you will have a chance. It’s just probably not going to happen on your timeline.

She definitely respects me more than she did over the past year but its going to be a steep hill to climb for R as you said. For now I need to keep working hard on detaching or it will drive me crazy

[LH19]

M,

Space is the key to detachment. There was a point in the winter where my son had two games and my daughter had a concert and we were together 3 out of 4 days. That got me a little off kilter. The past few months there has been plenty of space so I’ve been totally indifferent. I can’t completely erase 24 years essentially 50% of my life in 11 months.

Don’t get too hard on yourself.

[MLCxH]

Thank you LH. If the kids cope well then it will be easier to not be hard on myself. On the positive side I do consider myself to be the prize in the MR so that makes it easy to DB to some extent

[LH19]

What’s been going on the last 5 months?

[MLCxH]

Thanks for checking in, LH. I am slowly working on getting adjusted to my new lifestyle over the past few months. It is a tough adjustment with the financial strain from the D and juggling taking care of work, the home and kids as a single parent but on the positive side GAL pretty much takes care of itself. It is also good not having to deal with the tension and uncertainty. exW is still in her dreamworld of a better life without me and I am unfortunately financing her dream for another 3 years. It was a tough decision to give her the settlement I did but I felt keeping the D amicable was more important than fighting over money - though I may regret it when I run out of money paying her . Eventually this gravy train will stop and it is only then that she will face the real consequences of her decision. I am still keeping the door open for now but don't know for how long I can keep it up, let's see. For now, I am trying to live my life one day at a time. Part of it is I have been so busy that I don't have time to think beyond the present, which is a blessing in it's own twisted way!

[LH19]

M,

Sounds like you are adjusting well. I am sorry this is putting a dent in you financially. I'm not sure of your age but hopefully you have time to make it all back. Keep in mind this is going to take awhile. They don't hurt their children, take on financial risks, disappoint family, burn bridges to come running back in 6 months.

Take this time being single and enjoy it. Keep your head up and what's going be is going to be.

Stay strong my friend.

[BL42]

MLCxH,

I've seen your advice to others so just read through your thread. It's been two years since you've given an update...care to share?