Reading this board for weeks, excellent advice and bought divorce busting book
Just not coping tonight want to reach out and get some validation, but staying strong and posting my story.
I have a WAH, started a EA online last year. I had the BD July last year. Said he wasn't sure what he wanted thought it was a MLC. After becoming a honorary member of the MI5, found the EA. Yep I did the pick me dance. Didn't stop ig, the EA became a PA this year. The EA\PA they are both in different continents. WAH has said he doesn't want divorce, he moved out this month. He crumb drops everytime, let's see where we are in 6 months etc. We are still sleeping together on a regular basis. He extremely jealous when I go out and that is the only time he has said that he wants to divorce.
I have GAL and still continue to do so. I have looked at my failings within our relationship 25 years together, I am in counselling, focused more on myself and doing things for myself.
I validate him whenever we are together, and I have little contact with him. I don't message everyday etc. When we are together, we fall back into our easy, laughing and joking ways.
Today I am struggling desperately want to reach out, but no I am posting on here, I guess for validation that I am doing the right thing and to stop me grumbling mad.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Im sorry you are here. Read everything Cadet posted several times over. You are absolutely allowing cake eating. He is in a PA. Time to do some serious DB.
My marriage ended in D as of last Thursday because of my WW and her PA. Its not easy. It hurts badly. You will get through this.
Thank you, I thought nobody would reply. I have read all the links above and reread.
Just trying to get through every day with this is unbearable, so days are better than others.
I know I am his plan B.
Hello Solo, I can see a lot of parallels between our sitches, other than I don't know if my H is having any type of A, and he moved out last September.
Why are you sleeping with him if he's having an A? That's more like him eating a banquet than cake. My H refuses to have sex with me so I can certainly understand the attraction of it though, I'm not judging...
Dillydaf I have read your sich with interest.
Good question I am missing physical touch, everyday my h and I would hug, kiss, holdhands and boom since July nothing. My h really confused me hiss LL is physical touch and in one conversation h asked me to iniate more, yes h did most of the iniating. I am so confused h is in a affair, but wants to see that I have changed??
H will not admit to affair, states we had separated etc
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Solo, very sorry you are here! It sounds like you are doing the right things as far as GAL and giving him space.
Good question I am missing physical touch, everyday my h and I would hug, kiss, holdhands and boom since July nothing. My h really confused me hiss LL is physical touch and in one conversation h asked me to iniate more, yes h did most of the iniating. I am so confused h is in a affair, but wants to see that I have changed??
H will not admit to affair, states we had separated etc
But you said you know he's having a PA? So he's lying? That's pretty typical so I'm not surprised, just checking to see if I'm understanding the situation. Here's the irony about a WAS having an affair, they usually will start avoiding physical contact with the LBS because they feel like they are cheating on the OP!!!! Sounds crazy but once they get serious with OP then that becomes Plan A and the LBS is Plan B. So they'll go all-in on the OP while just throwing the LBS just enough crumbs to keep them hanging on as Plan B.
Thanks cadet, I have the book and it's well and truly hidden. Don't want I knowing I have got it. Browsing history is deleted everynight.
Anotherstander, that is the confusing part our sexual interaction has increased. Think this may be in part to it being a LDR
H thought I was a somebody and didn't go out much, which in part was true, I liked being at home, but I didn't go out everyweek. Now I am GAL he is resenting it, in fact resenting me. I made h move, h didn't want to.
Since comments about my social life, how can I afford it? Well h is busy arranging flights round the world, do I ask no, just let him do his thing.
Proper mixed signals from h, you never went out, sex was every week to 10 days, but physical hugs and kisses everyday. Now I am GAL he is disparaging of that, asks me to take the lead inviting sex when he is having an affair, which I do as this is a complete 180 from before
Anotherstander, that is the confusing part our sexual interaction has increased. Think this may be in part to it being a LDR
That could very well be. I've been working on a novel that explains why WAS's do what they do and you might find it helpful, here it is:
"____________________________________________"
Yup that's it, nothing they do makes sense, LOL! There's really no figuring it out. Especially if they are in an MLC.
Now I am GAL he is resenting it, in fact resenting me. I made h move, h didn't want to.
Since comments about my social life, how can I afford it? Well h is busy arranging flights round the world, do I ask no, just let him do his thing.
This is all pretty typical. Nothing you do will make him happy, he'll find something to complain about no matter what you do. So do it for you and don't concern yourself with his reactions to it. The thing is he wants you to sit around at home pining away for him with a big PLAN B stamped on your forehead. You're not doing that so it makes him scared, worried and angry. GOOD. That's exactly what you want- to put him on notice that when he dumps you he can no longer expect you to play by his rules.
asks me to take the lead inviting sex when he is having an affair
You really might want to consider putting an end to this. You wouldn't be the first person here to contract an STD from your own spouse thanks to an affair partner or two or three. Continuing to have sex with him isn't going to bring him back anyway.
My h is a good manipulator of words and quickly turns everything to be my fault. I have made a stand before regarding sexual interaction and he turned it on me saying it's the only card I have so I will play that!!
I am confused as I have read a school of thought that if they still want to be intimate then you should be, it's good dam hard and a juggling act. I know having sex isn't to bring h back.
H is worried about me getting into another relationship, woah there I am healing from this one I ain't got the time or inclination to find validation from some other source. The d thing only raises its ugly head when I am going out and friends post comments, then h states that a d will be better to stop him hurting.
Oh but I'm ok, and have to wait whilst his limmerance works it's way out of his system. H has always sort affirmation from others for a long time, h is confident and outgoing, only those that truly know him know he is lacking self esteem and is vunerable
Are you comfortable being intimate with someone that may be having relationships with other women? That could put you in danger of him transmitting something to you.
You are a solid plan B if you are still imtimate with him in my opinion.
So torn am I comfortable? This answer to that is no. I know I should have more respect for myself, he is in a PA all but every couple of months, I need to revisit the sexual boundary again and this time, not let h turn it on me. Any suggestions on how this one goes with a firm boundary and no twisting of the sentence to make it look like he is the victim which h is very good at. It is easier now h is out of the house, but every week h comes a knocking to put it politely. He will have little to no iniated contact from him, till his libido is calling. Then it's all my fault
Have you been tested for sexually transmitted diseases?
Has he been tested? ( and you want written results not verbal)
Aww SoloUK
I'm guessing you are in the UK so hopefully you'll understand my northern bluntness.
You may think he has a lack of self esteem but he doesn't build his self esteem by going out tupping other women. And then tells you to start dancing harder by initiating sex. He must be going round thinking he's a right billy big bo**ocks. Look at these women laying themselves down for me.
Enough.
I don't care what you've done in your M to think that you deserve this. Nobody deserves this level of deceit and mind games.
Get yourself out of the circus.
So what if he twists things. He'll twist anything at the moment. Let him blame you. So what. Your health and sanity is at risk.
How is this dynamic arising? When is he back in the house? Why is he back in the house? If he has to be back in the house then why do you have to be there?
I thought nobody would reply.
Weekends are slower than weekdays.
Keep posting. It helps to just get your thoughts out of your head and into writing.
Cadet, no I haven't and neither has he. I should will get onto it. It's something he can do himself I wont ask him unless I continue sleeping with him.
Yorkie good questions, he is back in the house we have children. This seperation from the start has never been normal, if there is a normal seperation. To be honest I think we are both laying crumbs I reject then give a little and he comes running. Yes he is Johnny big bollocks, thrives on it actually.
Plan of action
Get tested
Set this boundary
So how do I and then validate the crap he is going to spout
I need to revisit the sexual boundary again and this time, not let h turn it on me. Any suggestions on how this one goes with a firm boundary and no twisting of the sentence to make it look like he is the victim which h is very good at. It is easier now h is out of the house, but every week h comes a knocking to put it politely. He will have little to no iniated contact from him, till his libido is calling. Then it's all my fault
Remember, You have all the power, not him.
H:"W, lets make love"
W:"H, Go buy a pack of rubbers."
H"What??? WHy bla bla bla"
W:"I am not having unprotected sex"
H" Bla bla bla bla"
W:"not until you have protection"
Hold this boundary. Then when he does show up with protection
H:"I have some rubbers, lets make love"
W:"I want to see a full panel SDT results before we make love"
Hold this boundary.
Then when he shows you the results, then you can:
"I will not live in an open relationship"
You have plenty of time before this statement has to be made.
So how do I and then validate the crap he is going to spout
"I understand you feel this way"
"I am sorry you feel this way"
"It must be hard to feel this way"
Ready2change great plan of action. I was looking at going in straight with I went to work on our marriage, but I cant whilst we are still sleeping together and you are sleeping with others.
Love the exchange above, will be using it next time h comes a calling
Will have to hold strong he is good at maki g me feel crap, that I am the one being unreasonable and that it's all about me
Thanks I will, good night time reading from when I am back from GAL
You have to understand that you are not giving him crumbs when you give in to his desires. You are feeding his ego. You are feeding the waywardness. You are showing him that you value him more than you value yourself. He is taking and not giving back.
That is not fair to you. Yes, you may enjoy it and you may feel close to him, but to him it doesnt mean the same thing as it does to you. Its an emotional connection for you, a way to feel connected to him, close to him. To him, its just him getting his way and getting to have multiple partners. You are essentially telling him its ok and that you are comfortable with having a polyamorous relationship.
Thats a no go zone for me. To give you some insight into a full on wayward. My EXWW was talking to me about a young couple that is in her family, a same sex female couple. This couple decided that they wanted to be poly. They have multiple partners, several STD scares etc. They both sleep with men and women.
My EXWW literally told me "I think its very mature of them that they can sleep around with others and at the end of the day they know they are in a committed relationship with each other". HO LEE SH*T WTF is she thinking!?!?
I rebutted that I don't feel that its mature at all that they can't commit themselves to each other. I feel its very immature and very irresponsible. You don't truly love someone if you are sleeping with others and expecting them to be ok with it. You are using them, plain and simple. My EXWW did not like my response. I told her that I thought multiple partners was disgusting and a lack of simple morals, values and character.
I need to revisit the sexual boundary again and this time, not let h turn it on me. Any suggestions on how this one goes with a firm boundary and no twisting of the sentence to make it look like he is the victim which h is very good at. It is easier now h is out of the house, but every week h comes a knocking to put it politely. He will have little to no iniated contact from him, till his libido is calling. Then it's all my fault
R2C's comments are great if you want to continue having sex. But if you don't then use "I" language to explain it to him:
"Hey baby it's that time of the week again."
"I'm sorry but I can't continue doing this. You are sleeping with someone else and I respect myself too much to open myself up to catching an STD. And this is just emotionally draining for me, I can't handle the roller coaster anymore. It's time to bring this to an end."
"WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS??? This isn't fair to me!"
"I understand this must be difficult for you but the time has come to protect myself." (validation)
"But this isn't fair! Blah blah blah me me me meeeeee!"
"It sounds like you are frustrated, I can understand how frustrating this must be." (more validation)
"So when can we sleep together again? Tomorrow?"
"No this isn't going to happen anymore for the reasons I explained." (affirmation)
Be firm but understanding. Stick to your guns while validating, even though his comments will probably border on the ridiculous.
Less words is always better.
"I'm sorry but I can't continue doing this. You are sleeping with someone else and I respect myself too much to open myself up to catching an STD. And this is just emotionally draining for me, I can't handle the roller coaster anymore. It's time to bring this to an end."
Actions also speak louder than words.
Only you know where your boundaries are. You can set them where ever you want. It is all about how you let other people treat you. How you teach people how to treat you. Your boundaries are to protect you.
R2C's comments are great if you want to continue having sex.
You can use those words even if you have no intention on having sex with him in the foreseeable future.
I assume you want him back All is fair in love and war. Have fun playing with his emotions. Keeping him confused and thinking of you should be part of your "new personality".
What works is counter intuitive.
It is going to be a long ride and there are no guarantees.
R2C's comments are great if you want to continue having sex.
You can use those words even if you have no intention on having sex with him in the foreseeable future.
I do like the "I will not live in an open relationship" approach, but the rest of it is just leading him on, implying if he does X and then Y and then Z that he'll be rewarded with sex which is disingenuous if she has no interest in continuing to have sex with him. That's what I meant. The LBS should take the moral high road, no lying or leading him on even though it may feel justified in the face of his behavior.
Anotherstander and SoTorn, thank you.
I have known over the last few months, that it means nothing to him, my disrespect was in the toilet. I am going to set this boundary and stick to it, and the first time h comes to me with any promises. His actions must speak louder to me thanks words. I already don't believe half of what he says, it's all to make h feel less guilty.
I am owing my failings within my m, until h does there is no chance for us. I am working on me and have been before the bd happened. All h says is that I couldn't do it for him in the marriage.
I will walk this path, I will not leave my m. I am still faithful and loyal wife.
All you can do is focus on yourself SoloUK. That is all we can do. I will be focusing on myself and my kids. You are valuable. You deserve someone who loves you unconditionally. More power to you for remaining in your M. I stayed until my EXWW finally pulled the trigger on D. I didn't stop her at all. I didn't delay her. She got what she wants, which is a life without me.
I am focused on myself and my kids. I am GAL and enjoying it.
I am committed to my M, icing take those vows in jest, but I will not stop h if he wants to d. At this moment he doesnt, I don't know if it's a mlc, don't like to put labels on it. Think h was and is always searching for something? What that is I have no idea.
All I can do is follow my path, it is easier to not contact him, now he has left our home, I only message him with kids stuff. Not that this is easy for me, desperately have a million thoughts that I want to ask hi., But no r talks unless brought up by h.
Reading all the validation cheat sheets, reminding myself not to interrupt when he speaks (I am terrible for that). Also not to turn the conversation to I (I do this, you should try). It's his journey as well.
Maybe one day I can be standing in your shoes.
You have a good goal. Set your sights on how you want to change and move toward it. One step at a time. Once change in behavior at a time.
How old are your kids?
I was also a terrible at interrupting. I stopped that completely. I got away from blame. Its ok to say "I". You can tell him how you feel. I did. I went from "you you you". To "I feel like this when you do XXX". Its ok to state your feelings.
My favorite comment of late is "I am sorry you feel that way" or "It must be frustrating to feel that way". My EXWW doesnt know how to react to this new me. That usually just stops her in her tracks. She may keep pushing trying to get a rise out of me, but it never works.
My EXWW just got home from her trip with OM. I have my room all packed up and ready to go June 1st. I immediately got a text from her "Are you moving out?". I let it sit for about an hour and simply responded "Yes".
So now my EXWW gets to face her consequences. A life without me, paying me, increasing her bills, being a single parent and not having me around to help along with not having the kids half the time. But I am sure this is that ultra happiness that she was looking for.
My kids ages are 13 and 18
I am missing physical touch
Go get a massage, or a pedicure or manicure. I know it is not the same, but you can enjoy the human touch. I give you permission.
Hugs from your kids work to.
I am taking better care of myself, since bd I have lost 50llbs believe me this wasn't intentional, my body was so full of adrenaline I just didn't eat. I am doing yoga and running and every month I treat myself to a massage and facial. I have found a new counsellor who specialise in SBT and hopefully with this forum and the counselling guidance will be in ambudance.
Earlier this year I moved h from the mbr when he return from a trip with the ow. That didn't go well, as I was in the spare room, but I am the one working on my m, so I moved back and h out. H has now moved out completely and this is easier to control my emotions, it was needed h has dropped out of life completely. H lives on his phone 24/7 , he ignored the kids and me when we where talking, h was so disrespectful a complete change from the h he was.
You sound like you're doing pretty well there Solo. It's a rollercoaster, there will be good days and bad and you just have to dig deep during the bad ones and wait for better ones to come along.
I was thinking about you having sex with him when he's sleeping with an OW. I'm sure the sex is tempting as a way to feel connected with him, but he is definitely using you. Maybe it'll be easier for you to say no to him if you imagine him having sex with you whilst fantasising about her? How much of a turnoff would THAT be for you? It makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
My kids are similar ages, 14 and 17. It really [censored] the way a H can abandon his kids like that, I feel like my H will never be respected by our kids for having done that. No matter how much he bleats about wanting to be happy, his behaviour has been selfish and actually pretty unforgivable. My kids never asked him to run away, they didn't deserve this. I didn't either, but at least I know where my faults lay within our marriage, our children are innocent in all of this.
Dillydaf thanks for that vision. I have already firmly decided that the sexual boundary line is never again to be crossed. I am waiting to hear from h when he needs me again. To tell him that the boundary is in place and wont happen whilst h is sleeping with someone else.
Interesting you bring up the kids, my 13 y.o has been acting out since this began. Its strange to say my kid is quiet and just gets on, but anger issues are raising there head, hitting out at school. Smacking h sometimes in the guise of playing. Today when talking to my 13 y.o about an incident at school. I asked what was going on inside and my kid stated it's so messed up inside and started to cry. I reassured, held etc.
The issue is how do I tell h? He will be convinced I have put words in my child's mouth, and that it is all coming from me. My heart is breaking, what do I do? I have downloaded headspace for kids. Reassured the mum and dad love for our child is always there. My child just wants mum and dad together. Our child doesnt know h has a OW. H wants to introduce I the next few weeks, when OW visits again. Previously I have stated I dont think this is a good idea, but h will do what he wants
Oh no, that sounds so, so hard
I don't really have any advice, maybe someone with more experience of a spouse in an open affair will. It's true that you can't stop your H from telling your kids about the OW, or from introducing them.
I think I would calmly tell your H about the emotional issues that your 13 year old is having and that they are in a fragile state. You could even approach it in a problem solving manner: what can WE as parents do to help your kid. It might not work but if you are careful not to attach any blame in this matter (underneath any denial he KNOWS what he's doing is affecting the kids, you don't need to tell him) then maybe he might step back from this very selfish step. In a way it might be easier for your kids to know about the existence of the OW, because it might explain this very messy situation a bit more. But honestly, a 13 year old is old enough to make up their own mind about whether they meet the OW or not, and all you have to do is support the decision. I have left my kids to decide for themselves whether they visit H in his flat or not, I will facilitate it if they want to but increasingly they don't want to.
Hi Solo
I have a little experience of this, and I know I am much more likely to get my H involved in finding a solution for the problem if I ask for help. Maybe he has a white knight or hero complex? Maybe he just likes feeling needed and wanted? If there's any hint of me wanting to go into the causes of the problem and blame him for them, he either attacks or withdraws. Obviously your 13 yo is acting out and upset because of the state your marriage is in, and a large part of the reason for the state of your marriage is the fact your H is cheating openly. It's a no brainer. He knows that. So rather than going backwards, perhaps phrasing it a way that moves forward would be more likely to get him to work with you?
Husband, 13yo is having a really hard time at the moment. I think she's really distressed and confused. I need some help in comforting her. I'm thinking she needs some one on one time for fun with each of us. I was planning to take her out on Thursday. Do you want to take her out some other time?
Something like that?
Hi Solo,
Thank you for posting on my thread. I tend to read frequently -- and follow several posters here -- but I do not often post (for several different reasons).
Can you provide a more recent update? How are things going? How have your interactions been lately and implementing boundaries? I have some thoughts if you are interested in reading them.
Best,
Blu
Thanks blu,
Any thoughts will be greatfully recieved. Update well it is so much modernised in me without wh in the house. Getting use to lacking the kids off eow (well no that's not true, it is something I never envisioned I would ever be doing) work keeps me butchering that time but I am also GAL as well. First time i have ever eaten on my own in a restaurant, but it was liberating and I am a people watcher, so it was nice.
I have realised I am starting to mirror wh emotionally and I don't like it. I am short and rude act like wh can quickly exit. This I don't want, this is not the person I aim to be inreal life, it is only wh I am like this with.
As for sex, yep sorry sigh,had a good night,few drinks and wham its like we slip back. This is NOT happening ever again
So your H left you for OW and you continue to sleep with him and have R talks?
I’m confused: have you read any of the links or posts here? Why are you okay taking another woman’s leftover scraps of YOUR H?
Do you think women with self confidence do that? Can you describe how a woman with a high self value would behave in this scenario? Maybe that’s a place to start.
I’m sort of at a loss of what to stay. I made a lot of mistakes but never for one second allowed my H to play me like this. As long as OW was in the picture in any capacity, he knew not to come anywhere near me. I deserve better. I deserve it all.
Maybe this starts with you and why you think you deserve this. You think you deserve it simply because you allow it . So sadly you are causing additional harm in your sitch. Strong and confident women would tell a guy like this to F off. Then she would flood herself with self care, support and GAL. .... this over time is also what has them ending their As and begging to come back.
Maybe start by waking up every morning and reading Sandis rules. I’m not sure actually, I don’t understand what your goals are here.
Blu
Thanks blu for the 2by4
Just had to pick myself off the floor, but thank you. My goal is to have my family back intact hopefully if not to have a respectful and meaningful co parent relationship.
My wh knows I won't be having anymore, support and self care was and is my priority. I have a close friend who supports me and understands why I would like my wh back. I do read Sandi 's rules and I rest my head everything knowing that I was enough today.
I have taken back me from my wh and he knows how that this lady ain't for turning. This was the last bit of control he had over me, making me feel guilty and sad for him but no more.
Self respect and self love comes first wh chose his life, I am choosing mine, a life where people who are in my life want to be in it.
Today has been a good day with one little low, bloody song REM everybody hurts. Well I still made it a positive in my book, turned it up loud and sung along with gut wrenching zone and tears streaming down my face looking like a extra from kiss. My God Michael stipe you are a brilliant songwriter and for that I thank you
So puzzling over what to do. Fathers day up and coming, I offered wh last week to swop weekends so that he gets to spend the weekend with the kids, said he would get back to me on that. Hasnt and know I have made plans with the kids for the weekend. I can offer for wh to eat with us on the Sunday, but would that be classed as pursuit?? I know how I felt on mothers day and got to spend it with my kids which I appreciated. Gifts are made and are from the kids, not me. Just dont want to come off looking like the bad guy again, but I dont want to give up my time with the kids at the weekend
I can offer for wh to eat with us on the Sunday, but would that be classed as pursuit?? I know how I felt on mothers day and got to spend it with my kids which I appreciated. Gifts are made and are from the kids, not me.
No that all sounds fine since the kids will be there and it's really centered around the kids spending time with H. Just don't have any expectations that it is changing anything and you'll be fine. No R talks either. Just focus on it being a nice, relaxing time with the kids.
Wh iniated talk on kids meeting ow, on my weekend, said no, went mad asked wh to leave. I am steaming, so I have blocked all contact to wh and told wh all communication via email and only regarding the children. I told wh that I will not facilitate visits when it is my time with the children. What wh does when he has them is beyond my control.
I am angry and upset, previous to this I had ask wh to look at gottman as all communication is conflict at the moment, and I think this would be a good area to start, no wh went straight in triggered me and I reacted
Wh iniated talk on kids meeting ow, on my weekend, said no, went mad asked wh to leave. I am steaming, so I have blocked all contact to wh and told wh all communication via email and only regarding the children. I told wh that I will not facilitate visits when it is my time with the children. What wh does when he has them is beyond my control.
It is certainly understandable that you are upset about that! My only suggestion is STICK TO YOUR GUNS! Maintain that "no contact" boundary. Don't respond to calls or texts. Only reply to emails about the kids.
Wh has emailed an eloquent message about divorce and selling house. Also about me not putting our children's needs first. I have not replied
Another email asking for a copy of marriage certificate, not replied should I go with the standard. I want to work to save this marriage, but I wont stop you, I wont be helping you.
Jesus all I want to do is knock some sense into this person. Wh is not listening to my feelings, then why start a discussion, wh is dismissive of me as long as he gets what he wants
Another email asking for a copy of marriage certificate,
The approach we suggest is you don't do any D work yourself, but you also don't do anything to interfere with the process. If you have the marriage certificate and he's requesting a copy then go ahead and send it to him.
should I go with the standard. I want to work to save this marriage, but I wont stop you, I wont be helping you.
No not in this case. Just go ahead and send it, no other response.
Jesus all I want to do is knock some sense into this person.
If only it were that easy!
Ok thanks for the advice, will find it and send a copy. Nothing else. Even though I want to send him a message that just says if you had looked at what I suggested we wouldnt be like this. I know he doesnt care, it's all about him and his wants and I am The unreasonable one.
Really want to go I to fix it more, which is me apologising and giving in, but not this time, if I had done this fro. The beginning instead of being g reasonable and nice, tho wh says he is being nice by allowing me to stay in the house and only see the children eow and 1 evening a week.
Wh iniated talk on kids meeting ow, on my weekend, said no, went mad asked wh to leave.
I'm D'd with a good co-parenting relationship. I'd make an exception to our custody schedule for a distant relative or a vacation, but never to meet some "om" or "ow". Never heard that one before!
For Mother's Day I encourage my kids to think about and make or buy something for their mom. That teaches the kids about gift-giving, holidays, and thinking of others. Okay, I like to see their mom happy, too!
I'm so sorry for where you're at. Really rotten treatment by your ex--seeing someone else AND having an intimate relationship with you at the same time. Take care.
Another email asking for a copy of marriage certificate,
Ok thanks for the advice, will find it and send a copy.
send him a link to this site (or the one that is relivant to you):
'www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate'
Even though I want to send him a message that just says if you had looked at what I suggested we wouldnt be like this. I know he doesnt care, it's all about him and his wants and I am The unreasonable one.
Right, you don't want to do that for the very reasons you cite.
Really want to go I to fix it more, which is me apologising and giving in, but not this time
DB'ing is counter-intuitive, it's not doing what "feels" right and doing what doesn't feel right. But it is what works. All the apologizing and begging and pleading and such would just make you look pathetic, weak and unattractive to him. It's human nature to want what we can't have. You can't have him so you want him. He knows he has you so he doesn't want you. You need to flip that script.
I offered wh my weekend for fathers day, and he did ot get back to me so I have made arrangements for myself and the children. I was going to offer a meal o the su day with the children but that looks like its go e out the window. I dont want the children or wh to suffer not seeing the. On fathers day, but I am at a loss as what to do. Was this g of dropping g them off for a couple of hours and then picking them up.
My sitch is bad, wh ended email with it's obvious we cant save our relationship so look at divorce, I am like what a idiot you want to conti ue with ow, Introduce children and save our relationship. Starts with leaving the ow, if you want to save our relationship, not wait till it goes bad and come running back.
Can I ask, because I have gone complete no contact, I am worried he will turn up at the house, how do I deal with that? I cant refuse him entry but I dont want conflict and that is what will happen
Can I ask, because I have gone complete no contact, I am worried he will turn up at the house, how do I deal with that? I cant refuse him entry but I don't want conflict and that is what will happen
Hold eye contact. Listen to him. Say very little. Validate. do this as long as you are comfortable.
At some point, ask him to leave. If he refuses, you leave.
How long ago did he move out?
Ok no reaction from me, stay quiet, listen to what he says validate and ask him to leave, what if he comes already angry?
He moved out 4 weeks ago. Do not engage in any conversation which allows me to step back from my position. Dont let emotion control me. Easier said then done, I always alter my stance to keep the peace. I dont like being in this position, it isnt me.
Solo (strange calling someone else that :)) - I haven't read your whole sitch. Have you seen a solicitor yet. If not, do so immediately. Most will give you the initial consultation for free. Use the first session to learn the process and also establish your rights. You don't need to commit. In fact, if and when it goes down that route, I would recommend meeting with a few until you find one that you are comfortable with. But absolutely go and meet with at least one. He is asking for the marriage certificate because in the UK, you cannot initiate proceedings without one.
As many here have said, please stop sleeping with him. I know that at the time it feels like a connection (and it is) and you so desperately want to feel a connection, but he is literally having his cake and eating it too.
Fathers day - I offered my H the kids on fathers day too (it is my day) and he said he is working (which is probably true). So, I will make plans with the kids without him. They will call him on Sunday and then on Monday when they see him give him the cards and the present that I bought. He is their father. He has not stopped being their father. On fathers day he gets a card and a present.
My H comes from a broken family where partners were introduced willy nilly. He would not do that to our children - but if he did, unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. I could try and reason with him but ultimately, he can do as he wishes. A friend tried to have it put in her separation agreement that they would not introduce partners to their children for at least a year after he MO, but he refused to sign the agreement so she had to take it out. The best thing to do IMHO is to show your children you are OK with it. So you do not burden them with your pain. They don't need that. It [censored].
From what you described, moving out was the best thing he could do. Living in an environment like that stifles your energies. It is a black cloud hanging over your home - the place you are supposed to get rest, and respite and escape from the rest of the world. There was no escape for you or for him. It would not have been good for your children either. Now, you can start to clear both your mental and physical space ... so you can think. Not just react. But really think about what you want.
I am not saying it is over. It isn't over until you say it is over. But right now, I don't think you are seeing things clearly enough. There is too much noise.
Ok no reaction from me, stay quiet, listen to what he says validate and ask him to leave, what if he comes already angry?.
Validate his emotions.
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA!!!!"
W:"You sound angry"
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA because of YOU!!!"
W"I am sorry you feel that way"
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA!!!!"
W"I understand you feel that way"
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA!!!!"
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA!!!!"
H:"BLA BLA BLA BLA!!!!"
W"I will need time to process everything you have said"
W"I have things I need to take care of. I think it is time for you to leave."
H"I am not leaving"
W"You moved out. You do not live here anymore"
H"I pay for bla bla bla"
W"I understand that. You chose to leave while you still have those responsibilities"
H"I am not going anywhere"
W:"I am. Goodbye" then leave the house." Come back an hour later. If he is there, ask him to leave again. Repeat above. If you have to leave, go for the night.
FS great name btw!!
I haven't consulted any solicitors, but will look at it, to see what my rights are. I know why he is asking for the marriage cert, he has asked for a copy and he needs the original. I think he thinks I know misreading that I will crackdown because I don't want to d. Not today I won't be.
Fathers day is now a sticky situation, I will email him to offer a couple of hours.
Think he knows my boundary now and no more sleeping together.
You are right I can't stop him introducing ow, but he wants a full day and night on my weekend, to introduce ow and her kids. My mind is just blown at this, he has already told the children and asked did they want to stay of course they said yes without asking me to give up my day. Of course ow and her children will be staying at his house, I wouldn't want to put any child in that situation. I asked him to introduce in a neutral space for an hr or two. Wh and ow have spent irl a total of 19 days together. If I did that wh would go berserk and rightly so in my opinion.
This is a ldr and it feels as if everything is right here, right now. Wh has said he had sent pictures to her of our children that I have never seen, she is part of his life, so therefore part of theirs. All I get is ow has spent thousands to come and see me and I have a family outing planned and I will have my children.
I have not mentioned anything to my children of had mouthed there dad. Are you saying I should agree to this meeting. I told him I can't stop him doing whatever on his days.
I would let him have the kids but let him know that next time, he needs to ask for and not just assume he can have them on your weekends. Something like "H, You can have them this time but please ask me next time you want to make changes to the schedule. It is not appropriate for you to make plans on my weekend without first speaking to me. Next time you do so I will not be so amiable".
I know it's tough. God, I would be in pieces if it were me and can only think rationally because it isn't. You cannot stop him from introducing her to the children. If he doesn't do it this time, he will do it the next opportunity he has. It is only a matter of time. At least this way he cannot blame you (though he probably will find a way to blame you).
Walk the high road. Keep your head up. Handle yourself with as much grace and dignity as you can muster.
Oh, and make plans for the weekend he introduces the kids to the OW. Lots of plans. Preferably with girlfriends, alcohol and lots of dancing.
(((Solo))) My heart goes out to you. Your WH sounds a lot like mine. He introduced our kids to the OW last July (lied to them...told him he wanted to introduce them to her son (a student at his school) and passed her off as "the mother"). He "moved in" with her last May and started leading a double life until I found out about it in mid-September. Even then, he INSISTED she was a "roommate" that he "barely knew" until March when he could not deny it any longer. He recently bought a house with her so he is all in.
I know how tough this is. TRUST ME... it will get better in time. I will be divorced soon and am looking forward to it being over. I didn't think I would EVER feel that way. I thought he was the love of my life. But he changed... A LOT... and he lied and cheated for so long that he destroyed any chance we ever had to save our family. He is but a shell of the person I once loved. That person is long gone and I see that now. I am happier than I was. I've made some new friends. I've met someone who happily gives me the affection I was so starved of in my marriage. Don't know if it is going to be a long term thing, but it is great right now. I see things clearly now and you will too. You just have to get through this time until the fog clears. It is liberating when it finally does. It REALLY is!!!
Stick to your guns. Accept nothing less than what you deserve. Sending you lots of love and (((HUGS))) from across the miles.
Wh emailed last night regarding the marriage cert, I sent wh the link, emailed back I guess you wont resist divorce. I said I am committed to this marriage but cant stop you doing what you want to do. Wh then realised he is blocked from my phone. Q another rant email, I validated with I understand that it must be frustrating, I can see it's important to you. I would like to talk about it when it's a little less emotional. Another email stating that I am dictating what his relationship with the children entails, I think this is in regards to my boundary of wh not having the children for my weekend to introduce ow, and he resents my implications that I am more qualified then wh to see what's best. Wh is good at turning it around on me, he thinks i am selfish and looking after number 1 (me) because i dont want to get into conflict late at night. Wh is still ranting he got thrown out of the house the other night, no i asked him to leave, he left . He makes me feel like crap, and that I am floundering with every conversation. Makes me feel like i am the one having the affair.
ugh, just awful. Maybe if you try to think of him as a badly behaved toddler having a tantrum that might help? You know how when little kids have a meltdown and shout that they hate you and kick and scream and everything is your fault? That's how he's behaving. And with a toddler you're firm and have boundaries and ignore the screaming and kicking and wailing. Do that. Stay strong. He's calling you selfish because deep down he knows full well he's the selfish one, it's classic projection.
SoloUK this sounds so difficult. I can't imagine. My H is hard work sometimes, and he speaks to me atrociously sometimes, but he doesn't come near this type of behaviour. I think, as hard as it is to follow, Dilly has some very good advice. Treat him as a stranger who isn't very well - you can have some distant sympathy for his madness while keeping you and your children as insulated from it has possible. He's clearly not in his right mind.
As far as I can see we’re done you’re taking every step to preserve yourself even at to the detriment of the kids and ensuring that any remnants of a relationship we may have burns at the same time so yes I’m frustrated,angry, sad and scared but hey get a good nights rest
This is the type of thing I get, makes me feel like s**t, for protecting myself from conflict. All wh wants is for me to roll over say yes and then he will be happy. He throws this line our relationship about, and to say we are done. Hang on you are in the wrong and make me feel as if I am the one who is burning it down where is the sense.
I know FS has said I should allow this, but should I? It's just another thing that I back down from, he has practically taken it away by already asking the children, so I look bad to the children to take this away from them.
I honestly feel like saying f it you have the children, I am out done with all this crap, the feeling I am wrong even when I validate him it wrong. There is no relationship and will blame me for d, as I wouldnt back down and I am emotional and irrational
There will be exceptions to the "normal" parent plan.
Use this opportunity to get Fathersday/Mothersday agreement in place.
Solo, do you want the kids with you all day on mothers day? Just for a few hours? All weekend?
Email:
"H, I believe it is important for the kids to spend mothers-day with me and fathers- day with you. Would you prefer that they spend only the day or the whole weekend?"
Mothers day wh was still at home, so I got the day with the children. I asked wh last week if he wanted to swop weekends.. Hasn't got back to me on that so I have plans with the children can't put my life on hold . I will still offer dinner with us so he gets time with children and then it's up to him.
Regarding meeting the ow and spending the night, I will do as flying solo suggested. Had a good IC session and it was mentioned IC stated the same as dillydaf yep wh is a toddler throwing his toys out of the pram and in this instance I was the adult and expected wh to be an adult to guess not. IC said I was taking my power back and wh doesn't like it as where has his meek and mild wife gone. Well you fired me so meek and mild is no longer home. IC stated that if I allow wh to have my weekend he will see it as a win, but really I have won as I am staring up and being an adult.
Overall feeling pretty positive, I know it can all come tumbling down but today is a good day
Well I invited wh for dinner with the children, went well, polite smiley etc. Gifts given from children. Will not expect to hear off an again unless he wants something normal pattern. So I am dark and off his grid to. Solo put that phone down you are not going to reach out to wh.
Hope all the fathers out there had a good day xx
I'm cracking up picturing them sitting in a pram throwing toys out!!
My IC revealed a great deal about how I interact with others. I try and keep the peace, but at the risk of my own peace, so I've been stepping out in that and doing what I have to do and let other's throw toys if they feel they must, just not in my house and not at my head!!
Interesting that my IC also said that I was taking my power back (and about time) and that H wouldn't like it, but keep at it because it's beyond unhealthy giving H all my power and all the power in the R.
I didn't do squat for my H this father's day and I'm feeling like a proud chicken. We have 3 sons and 2 are out of the country. Don't know if the middle (22y/o) did anything. I didn't ask and I'm staying out to the way of that. I 'might' tell him happy birthday next year, might not. lol
Stay positive. These changes you are making are good for you!!
This is a common thing, I think. When we're in a marriage, we do our best to consider the other person's needs and wants and make decisons based on that. Some of us are so codependent that we only consider what our partners needs, and in the midst of doing that get so lost and churned up and resentful that the relationship is damaged.
Others of us have been very bad at considering what our spouses want - perhaps they've been the codependent one, never saying what they need, and going along with plans we thought were joint ones, building up their own resentments. Perhaps some of us were selfish and neglectful at times, or for many years.
But whatever the history is, once the marriage ends - and they do end on BD day, whether we want them to or are emotionally detached at that point or not, we have to start making decisions in our own and our children's best interests, and setting our spouses free to do the same.
Some of us carry on putting the WH or W first, and considering their needs, then getting nothing back for it. Others of us go ahead and act single, and make our own decisions, then get a lot of flak from the WH or W for doing so. It's a common pattern. I know I've found it extremely hard to put myself and my children first, mainly because when I do, H gets annoyed about it. It's taken a good long time to make my own decisions, and let him have his feelings about them one way or another, and do nothing about that. He'll have to start doing that too - and I won't like or agree with all of those decisions, and my feelings about that will be my problem and my responsibility to process.
It's a huge change, in our internal and external lives, and it doesn't happen overnight. I doing well at it these past few days, but no doubt I will go back to old habits.
I do think though, that a happy life as a single person or as a married person involves being able to figure out what is best for me and my children, and cope with the fact that someone who is important to me might not agree, and have negative feelings about that. Even if we did R, I don't plan to spend my life pleasing him any longer. He can learn to be pleased with who I am, or he can enjoy his life unencumbered by me.
I hope you get to this place soon. I know it's so much harder when there is an OW involved. My H had an EA but the kids never knew about it, and as far as I know (and I could be wrong) he doesn't see her anymore and there's no-one else he's involved with. If he is, he's keeping it private and not involving the kids at all - and I am glad about that.
I wish you well. Be positive. It's a new skill you are learning and it will take time!
Well I did it, and I am feeling good about it. Surprisingly dont feel guilty about letting him down. Wh rang wanted/needed something from house. It was late, and I am working in the am. Solo said no, sorry bye. Normally I would jump up do anything to please because I am an act of service person.
Still feel good about it, pat on the back to me
You are doing great, Solo!! Keep that momentum going. Each time you see them throw the toys out of the pram, it does get better (for you). You learn to distance more each time. They hate it when we don't react/respond the way they want.
I'm corny, so bear with me, but I sing that song in my head when H goes off.."ain't nothing gonna break-a my stride, I'm running and i won't stop now-ow, oh-NO, I got ta keep on moooovin"
Whatever works for you. You will get so good at detachment you will me a rock that no one can tell how to feel.
I'm reading and getting inspired. I'm in the same boat, going dark. It's hard, but gets easier!!