Midlife wife crisis5 - DivorceBusting.com

Here is the old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2845740&#Post2845740

There�s no chance to be more selfish than a WW. I was one of them, believe what I�m saying. Just validate her feelings and remember to believe nothing that she says and half of what she does...

Calm and patience. Use your time wisely

Stay strong there, keep DB.

Respect!

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I know later which I will only see her for a few minutes when I leave she will bring up why I took both days or how selfish I am. How should I respond to that when it comes up?

W:"H, bla bla bla both days bla bla bla selfish bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"W, I can see why you think that is selfish. Which one of the days would you like?"
W:"Bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"I believe it is best if we firm up the parenting scheduled to reduce future confusion. I will email you a proposal."
W: Bla bla bla Bla bla bla Bla bla bla Bla bla bla"
H:"I will think about that" or "I am not sure" or "I have not thought about that"

R2C thank you. When I ask which day would she like, and she says a day, give her that day? I like the responses. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

R2C thank you. When I ask which day would she like, and she says a day, give her that day? I like the responses. Thank you.

Yes.

Also be prepared to have both days. Be OK with what ever choice she makes.

It is your job to push for 50/50 parenting.

H"It is very important that both parents are equally involved in the children lives"

Journal: just trying to figure it out. Kinda wrap my head around what she is planning. We finished with the mediator a while ago. The paperwork went over to the mediators lawyer. We received an email to make an appointment with the lawyer to go over the paperwork. Yet, that was 2 weeks ago and she hasn�t mentioned about going to do the paperwork. I am trying to figure out what her delay is? Not that I wanted it, w was so for it and wanted to move it along is not doing anything. Just talking out loud. But will take an insights.

W,

You�re wasting energy trying to understand a WW. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row to prepare for the meeting.

Wolf,

Listen to LH...you will reach a point where you care not about her what or why and instead focus on getting done with her and getting your life back. As LH also says you be prepared for anything and have your s88t together.

A few months into my sitch I spent a whole bunch of time free of her, but still trying to rationalize what happened...a few months later I dropped it as it was a waste of time and energy. You will get there as well.

-B

LH, trust me I�m am not wasting that much time on it. She doesn�t deserve my time. My ducks are in a row. I have definitely noticed from being on here she doesn�t make a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Journal: just trying to figure it out. Kinda wrap my head around what she is planning. We finished with the mediator a while ago. The paperwork went over to the mediators lawyer. We received an email to make an appointment with the lawyer to go over the paperwork. Yet, that was 2 weeks ago and she hasn�t mentioned about going to do the paperwork. I am trying to figure out what her delay is? Not that I wanted it, w was so for it and wanted to move it along is not doing anything. Just talking out loud. But will take an insights.

This happens ALL THE TIME. My XW went to a L, had all the papers drawn up and told me she wanted to give them to me for review. I took on a "don't ask" policy and that was the last I heard of it for over 6 months. Eventually I decided I wanted the D, so started prodding her for the papers and eventually she gave them to me. The bottom line is if you can remove the pressure they almost always quit talking about D and pushing for it. A lot of times like in my case it's the LBS that finally gets tired of it and pushes it through.

My question AS and everyone else, why is that? Why are the for a d then when the pressure is off they don�t talk about it? I know I shouldn�t waste time on thinking about what they are thinking. I guess that�s just my logical brain at work. Is it they are starting to rethink things? Or so they can say they didn�t do the d? I�ll tell you guys dropping the rope and pressure makes me feel better. The other method I was using for 3 months was about creating connections and always perusing. Which was so hard because I was putting in all this effort basically �falling� in love everyday and getting nothing in return. DB is great because if it doesn�t work out I am already free. Thank you everyone for your help. Every day I feel just a little bit better.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

My question AS and everyone else, why is that? Why are the for a d then when the pressure is off they don�t talk about it?

Because of all the arguing and begging and pleading and R talks we all do to begin with. It sends them this message: "I don't care what you want, I only care what I want and what I want is for us to stay married and for you to act like nothing is wrong and forget it all happened." With pressure like that, S or D is the only way they see to get out. But if you take all the pressure off, then their attitude changes to "what's the hurry". It doesn't mean they are having second thoughts or anything, it just means that they no longer feel rushed to do something. The whole idea of BD is they want TIME and SPACE. Give it to them and you've basically given them exactly what they wanted.

What method tells you to pursue a woman who is rejecting you? Hope you didn�t pay for it because it probably sealed your fate.

Stick to DB.

AS I get they want time and space. For your situation why did you wait 6 months? What exactly made you decide to move forward with d? If you don�t mind me asking?
LH the program is run by Fort Mertel. Changed the first letter of the name. Don�t know if you heard of him. His whole program is about connections, (touch charge, talk charge, giving gifts) to name a few things. Some things in that program is true for DB. Absolutely no R talks. Don�t believe anything they say. I think that was it. Lol.
Just taking it one day at a time. GAL, detaching and being the best dad for my kids!!!

Yeah his program has been tried by some DBers only to find it just pushed the WW further away. His program is more for early troubles in a marriage.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

....just trying to figure it out..... Kinda wrap my head around what she is planning...I am trying to figure out what ....But will take an insights.

This is wasted energy. Focus on your personal growth.

When your W sees you, does she see someone new? Is this new guy listening to her? Does he look happy and confident? Does he stand up to her in a non-threatening way? Does he have his sh't together and taking care of himself, his kids, his things?

I believe she see someone new. I am definitely more upbeat, I make it a point to always be happy when I am around her and the kids. I make sure I always look good, good cologne. I take care of my kids always doing something with them. I got back into my second job, I had put that on hold for a while to heal emotionally. I feel a lot better. I am not going to lie there absolutely times I get depressed and down, just never around the w. I don�t want her to see that. I am making sure I validate her feelings. I am slowly becoming, �a man only a fool would leave.� I have been going out and have been getting looks from other women which helps the ego. Lol

Happy Easter and Happy Passover to all the people on here who have been guiding me, helping me and hitting me with those 2x4s. Hope today was a great day for each and everyone of you.

I just need to talk. Why is it some days I feel like I can do this and others I feel completely devastated? There are days I feel like things will get better with or without her. Why does it hurt so much when I see other families together and makes me think what did I do wrong? I know I need to detach more, but how do you detach from the family concept? On here it�s about detaching from the w. What about how much I miss my kids when I am not with them? This is going to be a tough week, we are off from work. I will fill up my days with stuff to do and people to see, but it�s fake. It�s fake because it�s not what I really want, I want my family. I know she is not �there� but how can she be ok with this dynamic when all she ever stressed for 19 years was family? I guess as the LBS I struggle to understand what she feels, I know that�s wasted energy but it just hurts. The love I have for my family is endless. Again, I know she is not �there� how do they come back? I know I have not been a model student on here but sometimes the detachment seems like it�s creating a big �gap� between us. We had a great Easter brunch with the kids. She asked me to come back to the house and I told her, thank you but I am going to spend time with my parents now. She said you can stay for a little while if you like you don�t have to leave right away. I said I appreciate that but it�s ok I will be back later to put the kids to bed. She almost seemed a little annoyed I wasn�t staying. That�s why for me this detachment is hard for me, everytime I detach it feels wrong. Sorry for the post, just down. She took the kids away for the day they will be back tomorrow I have a whole day planned of things to do. I just miss them and feeling a little depressed. I know once I get moving I will feel better. Thanks for listening guys.
I guess the other thing I struggle with is yesterday. We had a nice family brunch good conversation, laughing just an overall good time. For me it�s like, �see we can make this work.� If you were an outsider looking in you wouldn�t have thought we were a happily married couple and a happy family. why doesn�t the WAS see those good connections as a possibility? That�s my struggle? Is it in their mind there is so much �bad� that happened in the past? Sorry again guys just miss and love my family and always loved a week off to do family things together.

Wolf,

It won't be easy no matter the direction. And the post above proves even more you need to detach. You are still putting your happiness and well being on your W being in your life. Even if she were to return you would have to have some level of detachment. Until you can accept where you M is at the moment you can't move on and grow. What you truly want is the pain to go away. Trust me, your W coming back won't stop the pain.

When you have grace and joy, no person can steal that from you. Find peace, I know it's hard. Also, most of us on here had to fake it to get to a place of acceptance.

Take it from me, even if your W comes around, it won't change to fact you need to heal. I'm working with these issues now, insecurities, comparisons, hyper worrying. They are going away the more I learn to love myself. It's nothing my wife can do to help me process or make those things better. Having confidence in myself and knowing that I cant control another person does. No matter what the outcome of my M, I will be fine. I now know that. Will there be pain, yes. But I will make it thru whatever obstacles are in my way.

Just because you have a good day, don't erase the pains of the past. Being Consistent and time does. She must see, those type of days and a confident Wolf.

I had a preacher tell me that my W had a rollerdex of pictures of me in her mind, and they were all bad, my job now is to overwrite all those old pictures/slash memories with better pictures. That way when she thinks of me, if there enough good photos/memories the old ones won't come up first. Getting all those old memories overwritten takes time.

Takes yesterday as a good memory stored and old bad memory overwritten. One day at a time.

Onward and forward

W,

First off I am really sorry you�re struggling right now.

Again most of your problems come from expectations and not knowing the material. You still think detachment is not pursuing your W. It is not, it is a state of mind. You try something for a couple days and when it doesn�t work you immediately say see this isn�t working. There is no quick fix or magic bullet.

Your W most likely sees those good connections as a possibility in the future. That�s after she sees if there is a better connection out there. Because right now she has no doubt you are still on the hook for plan B.

As for you missing your kids when you�re not with them why don�t you move back in and spend as much time with them as you possibly can?

Wolf. I feel the same way you do as far as detachmrnt. All the activities of GAL feel fake to me too. Its just a distraction. I want my family back more than anything else.

I was invited by my MIL to Easter dinner with W but I politefully declined. Told my MIL I would like to see them and W's Grandmother individually, and that I thought it would be in my own best interest for me not to attend family affairs at this time. Its not because I hate my W, and it's not because of my in laws. I love them, miss them, and want to share their company, as they do with me. I just don't see the point, other than for the sake of our S1 to attend any further functions which I have been invited to in the future by W and family.

I really don't know if I'm in the wrong here? I feel like I'm slapping away the hand of kindness and invitation, and every time I do this it appears to my wife and family that I am being standoffish, and it just drives the resentment further. On the other hand I need to protect myself emotionally. Why in the world would I want to "play family" when it is my wife's decision to seperate? It ticks me off and confuses me so much!!! That the more I pull away, the more I am looked down upon. Its kind if like....The WAS 's mindset is" I just want to get away from him I just want to get away from him I just want to get away from him...." "but I can be friendly and amicable and happy and pleasant around family, and treat my H like a friend, make it seem like there's nothing wrong because they don't have to live with him..."

You can't win either way either way you'll look butt hurt, and either way they'll be happy and smiling moving forward as if nothing is wrong.

At best if you attend the family functions they will just look at you as doing it for the sake of your children.

So I decided to take our S1 to a separate brunch with my Mom and brother, after my w and Son parted I sat around watching Jesus movies all day which I actually enjoyed. When W returned she mentioned how much everyone misses me. I just kept my response short and polite. Everything I'm doing is not only not working but making things worse by pulling away. But everyone here trust says trust the process so I'm trusting it. I hope they feel the loss in the future and wake up without me being perceived as punitive.

Joejoe I know I need to detach more. I have my good days and bad days. There are more days good than there are bad. When I am around her she doesn�t see that side of me. I am confident, happy and fun especially with the kids without overdoing it either.
LH I know there are no quick fixes. I get it. I am just trying to take it one day st a time. As far as moving in, I told
You the one thing that worries me, the child support. I got her to come down a lot when she did t have to. If I move back in who�s to say she could go for the full support? We didn�t sign anything.

LH give me a little credit she asked me to come over after brunch and I didn�t. Usually I would have said yes. Please understand know that this is a process and there are no quick fixes. Please don�t misinterpret what I am saying. Maybe it�s the way I say it on here, I�m not expecting one or 2 things I do and she will want back into the m. I k ow it will take many things over a long period of time. I just come on here to vent. I am going to reread DR again.

I just don't get how they can choose to leave a M, divide a family, look for happiness and life elsewhere, force you to sell your home if you can't buy out, but then expect you to be nice, and friendly, and still attend family functions. It all seems like a sort of psychopathy to me.

IH it is confusing. I get the whole do you go or not go and spend time with them. That when you decline we are the �bad� one. They are the ones doing this, they are the ones who want this. I think you made a great move. I give you credit for your strength. My mistake is I think by doing some of these things together I hope to show her things can work out. I know I am only fooling myself. I will also be rereading the thread on detachMent

LH I am considering moving back in and to the MBR. I just have to understand what that could mean to me financially. That�s really what is holding me back is all that child support she could make me pay!

I think your guys number one problem is expectations. If you want to go then go. Just don't have any expectations that it will change anything. If you don't want to go then let them know why you don't want to go. Say something like "W we are not a family anymore. I need time to heal and move on and spending time with your family will delay/prevent this process right now. Make it clear that this is how you feel right now.

You guys also have to remember that your Ws are likely 2-3 years ahead of you in this process. They have mourned the end of the marriage but may not want to completely cut you out of their lives. You may also feel the same 2-3 years down the road. That is why they are ok being friends.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

AS I get they want time and space. For your situation why did you wait 6 months? What exactly made you decide to move forward with d? If you don�t mind me asking?

I'm not sure what you mean about the 6 months, do you mean before I started pushing for D? Because that was closer to 2 years after BD. And by then I was just completely, 100% done. What's the point of being married to someone who doesn't love you, doesn't live with you, contributes nothing at all to your household and doesn't want to touch you much less have sex with you? There were other reasons too, but that was the main thing.

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I just need to talk. Why is it some days I feel like I can do this and others I feel completely devastated?

Google "the 7 stages of grief" and it will help you understand what you're going through. Believe me, your feelings are completely normal.

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Why does it hurt so much when I see other families together and makes me think what did I do wrong?

And you think the families you see are all super happy, content and perfect? Because that's highly unlikely.

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What about how much I miss my kids when I am not with them? This is going to be a tough week, we are off from work. I will fill up my days with stuff to do and people to see, but it�s fake. It�s fake because it�s not what I really want, I want my family.

At first you have to make yourself GAL. But with time it gets easier and easier until you find you actually enjoy it. Here's the thing, we humans don't like change. We like "status quo". When big change is visited upon us against our will it freaks us out. We think we are going to die. But eventually we process it and adjust to it, the counselors call it "finding a new normal". You'll get there but it takes time and you need to be patient.

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I know she is not �there� but how can she be ok with this dynamic when all she ever stressed for 19 years was family?

That is a question you will have to learn to live with never having an answer to, because there is no answer. You don't know, we don't know, even your W doesn't know.

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That�s why for me this detachment is hard for me, everytime I detach it feels wrong.

DBing is counter-intuitive. It feels wrong because everything in your heart and soul is telling you to pursue, to tell her your feelings, to lay your soul bare. But all that will get you is BD'd all over again and set you back to square one.

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I guess the other thing I struggle with is yesterday. We had a nice family brunch good conversation, laughing just an overall good time. For me it�s like, �see we can make this work.�

Here's what she's thinking- "this is perfect, I can go off and pursue other men and find true love, but when I feel like it I can invite H to have some family time with me and the kids. Win-win!" It's cake-eating. She doesn't see you as a romantic interest right now, period.

Now comes the 2x4. Quit being so needy and whiny and desperate. I guarantee you it's not just here, she sees it too. And it's not attractive. Time to find your man card again and punch that baby.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Now comes the 2x4. Quit being so needy and whiny and desperate. I guarantee you it's not just here, she sees it too. And it's not attractive. Time to find your man card again and punch that baby.

LOL. Thanks AS! Especially with Wolfie I feel like I am always the bad guy trying to get him to takes his b@lls back.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I am considering moving back in and to the MBR. I just have to understand what that could mean to me financially. That�s really what is holding me back is all that child support she could make me pay!

Is your plan still weekend dad? Would 50/50 parenting plan change the child support calculations?

AS thank you for all your insight. I just come on here to get those feelings out. I don�t show that to my w. I show her nothing but a happy person. Sorry for coming off whiny. This is the only place I let those feelings out. Little by little I am getting my man card back. Might not seem like it on here but I am. I just unload those feelings on here and then I feel better.
LH I never look at you like a bad guy!! You are keeping it real and I appreciate it. That�s what I need. I have definitely got a lot better about not pursuing her. Or feeling needy. I never contact her first unless it�s about money issues or the kids. If she enters a room I am in and talks to me I am upbeat and happy and validating when needed. But then I make sure I leave the room so I doesn�t look I need her to be with me. Anytime she raises her voice or starts talking about us in front of the kids, I tell not to do it in front of the kids. If she ever tries to put me down I tell her don�t speak to me that way and I walk away. LH the other thing that is interesting is you said they have a head start. I believe what you are saying, then man she was good at hiding it. That makes sense why they don�t seem as�hurt� I guess as I do.
R2C we are doing a 50/50 split but since they will sleep at her house during the week because of school she is entitled to the child custody. I will pick them up from school some days and take them with me and bring them back at bedtime.
Again thank you all for your support. This makes me feel better and keeps me on track or at least brings me back.
One of the things that really helps is knowing what I am feeling and going through is normal.

W,

Not only does she have a head start but she also knows that at any point she could have her old life back. It�s easy to walk the tightrope when there is a big safety net underneath. Like AS said we can tell your demeanor by your postings. If we can then I am 100% positive the woman who knows you better then anybody can.

Right now she can seek out her new life while Wolfie is at mom and dads pining away for her hoping she�ll change her mind.

You are making this way to easy for her.

Today was a great day I took my kids to the city to see the car show. We walked around a little and grabbed a bite to eat. We had a great day. One funny thing to report. When I got to the house to pick up the kids my w said you are a little early. I said I like to be early(she would always complain that I was late, not true but anyway). Then she said why are you all dressed up? Aren�t you going to the city? Just so you all know I am wearing jeans, a button down and sneakers. I said we are going to the city. She said, you never dress up like that. And she said I notice you have been dressing differently lately. And then made a face like what�s this about. I said thanks, I said I�m just in jeans and a shirt. But thank you. I packed the kids up and left. It doesn�t phase me that she noticed I just thought it was funny. I always make sure I am happy, happy and upbeat around her.

LH what do you suggest? Sorry just saw your post. I definitely don�t want to make it easy for her.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

she said I notice you have been dressing differently lately.

I would step up all of these:

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1) Start off by living a healthy lifestyle. Make healthy choices when eating. Drink plenty of water. Get good sleep. Exercise regularly. Take care of your body. Work out. Alcohol in moderation. Set a goal to reach, and then maintain, your ideal weight.

2) Make good grooming and hygiene a ritual. Accentuate the differences between the sexes.

3) Dress with style - fit, compliment, cohesive, unique, personal touch

4) Attitude (state of mind) � Happy (smile), Cool (Open and relaxed body language), Calm (slow), Confident (eye contact), humorous, seductive (ozz sex), Depth (mysterious, surprise ), Sincere , Interesting, Engaging

5) Awareness/Flirting ( 93% of communication is non verbal (body language) � study and enjoy what you find attractive and your body will naturally follow your thoughts. It is the ladies job to catch and hold a mans eye, several times if needed. This signals it is OK for him to approach. It is the mans job to approach the woman.

6) Social proof - Enjoy interacting with everyone, especially attractive members of the opposite sex. Maintain your personal boundaries with everyone.

When speaking, use a deeper tone. Slow down the words. Increase the volume. Get on youtube and look up charisma matrix.

R2C thank you for that. After BD in 3 months time I lost 20 lbs and stopped going to the gym. Well, my weight is back up, I gained the 20lbs back, all muscle because I have been going to the gym 4-5 days a week. A few months ago I bought a whole new wardrobe. Around her I am happy and upbeat. Last night was weird. She came home late I was asleep on the couch. She woke me up and I said thank you for waking me up. Usually she walks away right away. This time she lingered by me. Asked me how my day was and how the kids were. I responded that they were good and we had a great time in the city. She thanked me for taking the kids to the city. I said you don�t have to thank me, those are my kids too. I joked with her a little and made sure I needed the conversation and said I�ll see you tomorrow. I don�t know I felt like she wanted me to stay and talk to her more. Everyone on here is going to think I am crazy I almost felt like she wanted me to kiss her. I don�t want to look into things too much and I know you all will tell me don�t over analyze and I won�t, it just felt that way. Almost like a sexual tension, I have not felt that vibe from her in a long time. Again, not over analyzing and getting hopes up. Just an observation.

W,

I think what�s happening now is you are taking the pressure off of her so she is feeling more safe and comfortable around you. Here is where you have to be careful about not accepting being in the friend zone.

Keep the convos brief and light �your welcome� was suffice. Then sorry got to run.

You�re doing better but I am concerned about your expectations. You know when some says �I don�t want to offend you� and you know you�re about to be offended?

It�s the same with you when you say � I�m not reading into things� you�re reading into things.

Keep the pressure off and be scarce. Scarcity creates value.

Thanks LH. I don�t want to be in the friend zone. I hope that�s not what she is seeing it as. I hear keeping it scarce, what about a little flirty humor? Or is that pressure? She reaches out to me almost every morning for the past week. I want you to know I don�t have any expectations. I am just doing what DR says take note of what works and what doesn�t and observe.

W,

There�s no doubt you�re in the friend zone. When she reaches out what is a typical text? Can you give me an example of your interpretation of flirty humor?

Originally Posted by Wolfman

... I almost felt like she wanted me to kiss her. ...like a sexual tension, I have not felt that vibe from her in a long time.....

I am a firm believer in "All is fair in love and war."

You, as the man, are in charge of the romance and sex department. How are you "learning and practicing new skills while maintaining your moral boundaries?" Do you have other woman pursuing you? Or giving you similar vibes?

Do not kiss your wife. Make her want to kiss you. Let her come in for the kiss. Give her your cheek. Kind of the opposite of the guys that offer a cheek and then turn at last minute and give the girl a kiss on the lips. This has to be playful on you your part.

Do you have new skills for the bedroom? Will she be surprised by your behavior?

Look over this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

It is your job to seduce you wife back. Do not make it easy for her. Have fun doing it.

This stuff is hard and takes a lot of work.

LH when she reaches out it�s mostly about the kids. Or we are trying to figure out who�s doing what with the kids. Flirty humor, When she says she can�t sleep, I would say that�s because you miss me in bed. Very light so she knows I am not serious. R2C I do have 2 women pursuing me. They have been pretty forward. These women give off a very strong sexual vibe. I like the idea about the kiss, turning my head. I will keep up the �I am hot vibe�. Today she is getting her hair done, she keeps texting me about the kids. How are they? What are they doing? How�s the weather over there? I keep all my answers brief and to the point. I also don�t respond to the texts right away. I have a lot of skills in the bedroom. That has never been a compliant on her part. I have gotten a lot more toned up and a lot of other people have noticed so I am sure she has. I know she won�t say anything. Just he other day I went out for my brothers birthday and one of the girls who was 20 was hitting on me. So with some women pursuing me lately and getting hit on my confidence has really gone up. I feel like I am going back to the man that she fell in love with. I want to thank all of you for constantly hitting me with those 2x4�s. I know I still have a ways to go but I will continue to DB.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

When she says she can�t sleep, I would say that�s because you miss me in bed.

I'm stealing that line.

I found indirect works well.

W:"bla bla I can't sleep" bla bla
H:"I have a solution for that"

W:"Really?" What?"
H:"My secret"

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R2C I do have 2 women pursuing me. They have been pretty forward. These women give off a very strong sexual vibe.... the girls who was 20 was hitting on me. ...some women pursuing me lately and getting hit on my confidence has really gone up.

Perfect. This makes it easier.

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she keeps texting me about the kids. How are they? What are they doing? How�s the weather over there? I keep all my answers brief and to the point. I also don�t respond to the texts right away.

H"W, the kids are doing great. Don't worry, I will text you if there are any issues. Enjoy your day."

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I have a lot of skills in the bedroom. That has never been a compliant on her part.

Perfect. I continually have to learn "new tricks" to keep things exciting. My goal is to surprise her. Almost every discussion includes "You haven't seen anything yet"

Wolf, that all sounds great, keep it up!

Originally Posted by Wolfman

She thanked me for taking the kids to the city. I said you don�t have to thank me, those are my kids too.

Here's an alpha thing to practice- just say "you're welcome" when people thank you for something. It may sound minor, but it makes a favorable impression on others compared to someone who is always refusing thank you's and trying to explain why they're not needed.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Here's an alpha thing to practice- just say "you're welcome" when people thank you for something.

This works well in bed. Don't be a beta in bed and thank the lady, but when she thanks you, "your welcome" with a smile works wonders.

W,

I'm sorry I don't remember. Is there a confirmed OM?

Thx.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Here's an alpha thing to practice- just say "you're welcome" when people thank you for something.

This works well in bed. Don't be a beta in bed and thank the lady, but when she thanks you, "your welcome" with a smile works wonders.

Yes! If I had a dime for every time....

Thanks guys for the vote of confidence. I am really trying. LH as far as I know there is no one else. I had her followed a few times in the past and there was no one. She was just out with her girls friends. That was 3 weeks ago, obviously it could have changed. LH you had said a few posts ago you think she is friend zoning me. I think you are right. What do I do other than the flirty humor? That�s the only thing about DB that gets me nervous is always giving her space, I feel that�s exactly what I am doing is creating more space between us. Other than the other night I felt a small smidge or something, I just get a cold vibe. I am still have problems with my d. She just wants to be with my w. It�s actually always been that way, she has an unhealthy obsession with her. My w and I had a brief conversation about my d. How she is distant from me and very cold. My w said you can�t give up on her, I said I get it it�s jsut hard when you keep giving and get nothing in return. She said I know the feeling and made a face, implying her. I said if your felt that way I am sorry I made you feel that way. She said what do you think you can do to make it better? I said right now I don�t know, I am constantly trying to spend time with her, constantly asking her if she wants to play something, she is 11. My w said she will try and think of something and then she went into the kitchen. I do t know why my w has to take digs at me. Especially when it�s not true. I bet that�s how she feels but man her sense of reality is so distorted. I know that�s all part of the WAS mentality.

Heh! distorted reality is the name of the WAS game. I could give you literally 100 examples in my case. Hence why I keep screaming HIPOCRACY!!! Just let them go and validate. Men will have much different outlooks on dynamics, division of labor, responsibilities, how an SO should act, what their wants and needs are. Honestly I'm a point where I don't even want to waste my focus, energy, and time in analysing it anymore. I got $hit to get done!!!

W,

You're still operating under what is known as the "illusion of action" where you feel you have to do something to make her change her mind. It doesn't work that way.

Remember back when I told you told you to ask her not to text you unless it involved the kids and you ignored my suggestion. This was to help you detach and stay out of the friend zone. You have to make it clear that you are her lover not her friend.

Wolf your number one and only priority should be repairing the relationship with with your daughter. Your statement about giving to your daughter and getting nothing in return is really concerning to me.

Get her into IC if you have to moving forward.

Could anyone ever imagine a world where relationship dynamics and people are just simple and clear cut?... "Do you love me? Yes! Do you love me? No... Um well? I'm not so sure? ...No. But as a friend.. Ok...Goodbye! Nice knowing you.....lol..... (Life is too short to put yours on hold.)

IH I guess you are having a hard time with your situation too. My w�s view on everything is so distorted. She is he one who wants this and I hear her complaining how the house is a mess and no one helps her to clean up. She forgets when I lived there I did it all the time. Now she has to do it and complains. She never realized all the little things I did in the house. I guess little by little she will learn. Like the landscaping, lawn is out of control, weeds growing everywhere. It�s not my problem anymore.
LH I have working on my relationship with my d and when I say I get nothing in return it�s just how she treats me compared to my w. She shows my w a lot of love and if I died in front of her she wouldn�t care. She does it as a manipulation tactic to show my w she is on her side. Like see I hate daddy mom I am on your side. It just hurts a lot. To show someone love all the time and her just ignore me is horrible. It�s hard enough to go through his with my w but to go through this with my d too. The minute she is away from my w she is texting her. My d never texts me anything. Yet my son is so loving and caring. Not being with my kids all the time is what is taking a toll on me too.
As far as the whole friend zone thing. What else should or can I do? I get the whole texting thing. I am happy dressed nice all the time, acting �as if� everything is fine. I am sorry the one thing I never had was patience. I know that is a big part of this. I have also been separated for 9 months and it is wearing on me. Granted I have only been DB for about 2 months. This is why I come here for everyone�s help. I wish when my situation is �done� either d or back together I could take each and everyone one of you out for a drink: lol I look forward to everyone�s comments. Thanks!!!

Originally Posted by Wolfman

As far as the whole friend zone thing. What else should or can I do?

Have you read "No more mr nice guy?"

It is about your thought process. You belief system. Challenging it all the time.

IT is an attitude. When dealing with a woman, she is either having sex with you, or helping hook you up. You already have enough friends. That is the attitude. That does not mean you are actually sleeping around.

With your W, She is a business partner to parent your kids. That does not mean you still cant charm her, seduce her, turn her on. It just means don't expect anything. If something happens great.

Stiring up her emotions, confusing her, make her think about you all the time. Why is Wollfy all dressed up now? Why is Wollfy so happy now? Why does wollfy leave so quick? Where is he going? WHo are these new people he is hanging out with?

Do you even read what I post? I tell you to do nothing and you come right back and ask "what else can I do"?

I'm guessing one of your Ws issues is that you don't listen to her.

There is no OM and you moved out of your house and then constantly complain you miss your kids?????

There is something you are not telling us. Little girls don't not dislike their fathers for no reason.

LH doing nothing just sounds so unnatural. I do listen just want to make sure I have all the tools. As far as my d. She has always had a very unhealthy relationship with my w. She is obsessed with my w and suffers from severe separation anxiety from my w. She would never sleep over her friends house, not because of us my d never wanted to. She wouldn�t even sleep over her grandparents house and they do everything for her. She just wants to be with my w all the time. Even when things were good if my w and I went out to dinner and my in laws watched my kids my d would cry hysterical that she didn�t want us to leave. So this had been on going and she had been going to IC since she was 4. We are actually going to switch therapist because she seems to be going backwards now. So it�s tome for a switch. The divorce my d thinks she has to take sides. My d is setting this up b cause she knows eventually she will have to sleep at my house(when I get one). My d still begs my w to sleep in the MBR on a little futton on the floor. That�s how bad her separation anxiety is from my w.
R2C I did not read it. Is it a link on here? Thanks for the posts. Keep the 2x4s coming.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

R2C I did not read it.

It is a book.

Read this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

Oh im letting my W figure all of this out on her own...She cleaned up the top floor of the house for the realtor coming by today. It looks good, and I complimented her on it. She cleaned the kitchen, did the dishes, even pledged all the furniture, and even changed the (now her bathroom) toilet seat with a screwdriver..lol.. She's been asking me to do things for her, so I have been providing her with the tools, but she knows she has to do it herself. What her responsibility is hers which includes selling the house. Sges nice and friendly with me, I just don't give her anymore than I have to anymore.

I just don't care anymore. I'm going to have to organise, clean, and arrange a whole garage 20 years worth of tools and stuff, a storage locker, and what [censored] is im probably going to need some of them to keep going with repairs. With what even less time i have now with the custody split schedule with S1. Nice or not, I just want out. If I put my trust in someone and now I'm being forced to move, and expend all my time organizing, moving and fixing all this stuff. I'm pretty sure at this point in time, I'm not letting her back in my life. If she wants to remember just all the bad stuff, live up to her purpose, find herself and start a new life with a 1yr old.

I'm really sorry to hear about your relations with your daughter. That must really hurt. Just be there for her no matter how she reacts. Something tells me years down the road the truth will come out, and the tides will shift. I have seen it with my nieces and older brother over the last 20 years, where they're mom brainwashed and poisoned their minds. Onlyb later as they got older, they realized Mom was the problem, and Dad fought and won custody after 15 years.

So yesterday I told my w I had to show a house at 11am and afterward I would like to stop by and see the kids. After I got done showing the house I text her I was on my way over. She replied that I didn�t text her in the morning exactly what time so she took the kids to breakfast. I said no worries when you are done I would like to see the kids for a little while. She told me the day before she was doing things with them at 4 and If I wanted I could see them before they go out. After breakfast my s called and said that mom is taking them to chuckie cheese now. I felt like she was doing this to piss me off now. I did t want her to know it was getting to me so I said no problem to my s and to have a good time. That was around 12. So after that phone call I made plans to go out. Around 4 she texts me that they will be home soon and if I want I can come see the kids. They are going out at 7. I said sorry I already have plans have a good time. Normally in the past I would have changed my plans to see the kids, I know she is trying to control and manipulate by doing that, I was not having it. I enjoyed the rest of my day yesterday out with friends.

IH IT has to be so hard for you selling the home. It is amazing how these WAS can do this to a family. That was awesome that you just gave her the tools to fix the toilet seat. I can tell from reading your situation that your w probably didn�t realize everything you did. My w certainly didn�t. The reason why for me at least I did things and didn�t announce them to my w. I just did them. When I vacuumed I didn�t tell my w I did it, I just did it. So she did t realize all the little things I did. When she would put her clothes away she felt the need to tell me. I would always say that�s great to her, but deep down I would be saying why are you telling me that�s what you are suppose to do. I bet your a was exactly the same, looking for recognition for the mundane chores we do as people. I wish for you your w would see how much harder she is making everything, but I know right now she is in the �fog�.

Eventually you won't care if she's in the fog, you won't care what she does with her life, you won't care if you attract her back, and you won't care if she has a change of heart, and if she does?... Sorry..lol... They're going to have to give you a lot more back than of what they took from you, took for granted, because you will be too busy refocusing on kids, and rebuilding yours. If we ever attract them back, it will be on our terms. Otherwise, keep moving forward.

Their mindset is: We didn't pay enough attention to them, we only used them for sex, we didn't socialize enough to their agenda, we didn't listen to them, we didn't see them for who they are, we didn't validate, and on and on and on. A whole list of reasons. Some which have nothing to even do with us... Maybe they want a change in their life? Women generally speaking have a tendency to change more than men. Careers, purpose, health, fashion, etc...So? Let them figure it out...You want to change? Your're going to have to. Not to attract them back, but because it is now going from WE to I..
So focus on I, and kids. Do whatever the hell it is you want to do in life. You think they are looking back at you? You think they are inviting you to places to hang out, other thsn for the sake of the kids?... Whether it be an WW or a WAW? Hell no! They're too busy thinking of themselves and what their next plans and moves are. Some might figure it out years later the grass isn't greener. Some... The grass might be actually greener. Who cares?.. Keep moving forward.

Had a conversation yesterday about me finding a house. She asked me when I was going to start looking. I said I can�t until you can buy me out. She said, �I told you my dad is going to give you the money.� I said when? I need the money in order to purchase, I just can�t go to your dad and say here is the house can I have my money. He has to give it to me show it as a gift(so the banks know I don�t have to repay it). I also told her I can�t go out and buy a house anyway because I am still on her mortgage and deed. That goes against my debt to income ratio and then the bank will want to know why I have 2 homes. I told her in order for this to happens she has to refinance the home to get me off the deed and mortgage. She said I don�t want to do that. I asked, why not? She said because then she would have to pay closing costs and get a much higher rate. And if she does that she is getting screwed having to pay more. I said in a very nice calm voice, I understand that but this is what you want. She goes as always I am getting screwed. I just responded I am sorry you feel that way. Then my kids came into the room and the discussion ended. It�s funny she wants me to get my own home so when I have her on the weekend she is freee to do what she wants. No responsibility, just be free. This is coming from a woman who always stressed family and being together. It�s amazing her 180. Also, I wanted to chuckle that this is what she wants but doesn�t want the extra expense or hardship that comes with divorce. Another fantasy that she is living in. That it�s suppose to be easy and she gets everything she wants. Boy she is in for a rude awakening when this d is finalized.

I wouldn't even entertain any more talks about the house. Shut it down. Let her and her dad figure it all out. the only thing you're going to be there for her if she has any paperwork she sends your way to review. Don't help her with anything. Let her figure it out. I shutdown my wife's conversation last night about the realtor coming to appraise the house since I made it crystal clear I wasn't going to be there since it's not my decision to sell. She started talking numbers and estimates and figures with me after i made it perfectly clear I didn't want to be involved in the process.
I just nodded my head said okay and walked away.

IH I agree with you. This is something she is going to have to figure out. I am definitely not helping her. She also mentioned that this divorce process is going so slow. I simple stated this is what you want so we will go at your speed. Don�t ask me to help you with any of it.

Just out of curiosity what happened to my other mentors? Steve, R2C, AS, LH, you all help me out. I hope you did t lose faith in me.

You�re frustrating because you don�t listen, don�t know the fundamentals and you�re just wasting my time. Seems like you just want to use this forum as a bitch session which is your right I guess.

If you decide you actually want to put some work in I would be happy to help you.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Just out of curiosity what happened to my other mentors? Steve, R2C, AS, LH, you all help me out. I hope you did t lose faith in me.

I am following along. Do you have anything specific?

Wolfie, I am here for you man! Just hadn't a lot to add.

LH you are right less complaining and more DB. My DB skills definitely need to get better. My biggest downfall is my lack of patience. Something I need to work on. I guess I keep hoping there will be one thing that brings her back. That hope is which keeps setting me back. I realize that now. No expectations, 180, GAL and live for my kids and me now.
Steve and R2C thanks for still being here.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

..... I guess I keep hoping there will be one thing that brings her back.....

The one thing that has the best chance of bringing her back is your consistent changes. Keep changing your behavior. Each change should be focused on being more attractive. Alpha male behavior.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Steve and R2C thanks for still being here.

I want you to have a great relationship with your children. They need you. It is your choice to make this happen. It is yours to lose.

Here's a morbid but interesting passing thought on my way home from work today. Early on in my marriage every once in awhile I would imagine what if my wife was dying in the hospital or what if she passed on and went to heaven, and what if I shortly went after that in my old age? Being that my spirit will be released from this world, all its faults and shortcomings sinful desires and Brokenness. How would I greet her in heaven? How would I act, think feel and be? Well I'll tell you one thing? I wouldn't have any doubts fear loneliness insecurities shortcomings guilt, anger blame rage and all the other bad behaviors. It wouldn't matter because the Earth would no longer matter to me in the ways of it. I'm not saying be a doormat, and lack self respect. But I think it's most of us including myself put our minds to this, not only will we be able to detach with love a lot faster, and get our minds and hearts off the Romanticism of it all. Just for the hell of it look up Romanticism and where it started it started in The Shakespearean era. Love lost all of its practicalities commitment and devotion, through hard work, and what we have is nothing more than a limerence drug addict based on sensuality sexuality and feelings today. And this era just keeps on ramping up the stakes. I keep finding a very amazing how we can have unconditional love for our children, but with our spouses at waxes and wanes? Why is that? is it really because we're coming down off the high of Romanticism? That we didn't live up to the expectations of someone else and what they thought things should be and how? in case you haven't noticed people divorce is a crisis not only in our culture but in others as well. Me me me me me Independence Independence Independence... that's all I hear? And sadly I'm guilty of it too. Be aware of this for yourself.

And learn what true love is, real love, unconditional love. Not Tit for Tat not disappointing not offending not impatient.

I think I'm just beginning to understand God's way.

It has been over 3 weeks since the mediator sent the paperwork to the lawyer. We were supposed to make an appointment to go in and look it over and sign. She has not mentioned anything about getting this done. I feel like she is up to something. I know a few posts back someone said I took the pressure off of her and that�s why she is not in a rush. My thing is how long do I wait? It�s a rhetorical question. I am starting to want to push this through. I do love my w but after a while when you get nothing and she shows no signs of coming around I am starting to feel like she is cake eating. Honestly it�s starting to piss me off. I have been very patient with her, I try very hard to validate her feelings. But enough is enough. I know people say on here you should wait a year before you move on. Look I will be honest with the people on here. Since my wedding ring has come off I have a lot of women flirting with me and getting a lot of looks. It feels great getting that attention again. If she doesn�t want me, fine, then I am ready to move on. I know some of you will probably �beat me up� for saying that. But the cake eating has to stop and I am the only one to stop it. Maybe just maybe if I start to push for this d, she will say, why does he want it? LH you said i am like her �big safety net� if she were walking a tight rope. Well it�s time for me to take that away. I also understand what that means. She might say let�s get it done. I have detached were I am ready to move on, GAL is in overdrive and enjoying life. I am ready for either path I may head down at this point. I am better than plan B, I am plan A and it�s time for her to see that or move on!!

Hey man. Its your life. Only you can decide if youre truly done. Yes they cake eat and will continue to do so. Feeling the complete loss of you may or may not bring them back.

I decided that I want attention from other women. I decided that I wanted to know what it was like to have a good womans attention. I met another woman. I dont see her often but she is very kind to me. I decided that a PA and being badly mistreated for the last few years was a dealbreaker.

I am happy. My kids get most of my attention and because of that they are doing well. I am moving on. I will be moving out soon. As soon as I find a place. I feel good about it and feel its the best thing for me.

That being said, if you have any hope or faith that your M will survive, keep on DBing. Because moving on, especially dating another woman will most likely ensure that will never happen. Im ok with that for me. Are you ok with that for you?

W,

I am curious on what your IC has to say about your emotional stare right now.

Does anyone ever wonder if our WAW's or W'S or having the same exact mindset and thoughts as us, about moving on, about being sick and tired of being ignored, about finding another person who can reciprocate our wants and needs in a relationship or spouse? Like what if they were thinking naturally what we've been learning the whole time? Speaking of emotional states I got some more thoughts for Wolfie I'll update in a minute.

SoTorn I don�t have any faith. I have seen my w do this to just about everybody. When she is done with someone she is done. She doesn�t talk to half her family. She has very few friends at work. She is not friends with any of her bridesmaids anymore, many people in our neighborhood we were friends with she isn�t anymore. I just happen to be the next person on her list. She always mentions pride, how she has too much pride to let anyone treat her badly and would never let anyone do that to her again. So yes, I have very little hope.
LH my IC said I should wait 6 months to a year before I date. And she has said your w iss done and I need to accept and move on. Once I can do that I can heal. Kinda against what is said on here.

W,

How do you see that this advice is different then what is said on here?

LH one of the things IC told me was to move out a long time ago. A lot of you told me that was a bad move. Which I agree with I should have never moved out of the MBR back in August. That was way before I even knew about DB. The part of accepting and moving on is part of DB. IC also tells me to mive foreardnwith divorce, don�t wait for my w to take the initiative. That if she is done there is no reason to prolong the process. That I keep it moving, that is also different. I should have mentioned those in my last post, I was thinking those but did not write them.
IH I wish I knew what my w was thinking. Any time I think I know her or what she is going to do she throws me for a loop. I think last night I threw a curve ball at her. After I said goodnight to the kids I was walking out of the house singing and looking at my phone. There was nothing I was looking at particularly but just wanted her to see I�m happy and that maybe I was talking to someone through text that made me happy. I saw her staring at me out the corner of my eye with a puzzled look. Maybe she was wondering why I was so happy, or maybe who as I talking too. I don�t know and honestly I don�t care. I just noticed that she was staring at me.

Well if your IC told you to move out I would consider looking for a new IC. Curious as to why he/she would tell you that? Are you currently still paying the mortgage, utilities etc.

IC said to move out because of how she was being a real pain in the a$$ and how I shouldn�t have to deal with that. And that if we are going to be divorced anyway to separate and start to heal now. I figured out what the monthly bills are (mortgage, home ins, car ins, utilities) and I pay half of it. Just remember one thing with your response we negotiated child support and it is $700 less a month that I New York State requires me to pay. So if I piss her off she can go for the full amount. And she has brought it up once already how nice she is being by not going for the full amount. So yes she has me by the ball$. If for some reason that would ever change then I have nothing to lose and go right back into he MBR. So yes I am stuck and do act out of fear because if I have to pay that extra $700 I won�t be able afford anything here. It stinks how NYS works with child support.

Lol. Ws being a pain in the a$$ �oh just move out� w wants a D �just push it along she�ll never change her mind�. I hope your insurance covers IC.

So let�s think about this from Ws point of view. She has house to herself and you pay half the bills. What is her incentive to push the D forward.

I'm in NJ /NY Wolf . The laws are no better here.I understand your IC is pushing you torwards healing. That I get. But let me ask you something? You know yourself better than anyone. Most IC's as we know are there to provide neutral council, or make suggestions that we either don't state, or possibly see. They are also there to help us better deal, and better comprehend our emotions and situations. Anyone remember what MWD said in DR book. That all IC'S have a bias depending on training, personal beliefs, familial history and experience? So Wolf if you are going to pick an IC, pick one that is in your's bias. Do you find more peace living seperated? Then do it, and keep doing it. Do you want divorce? Then pull the trigger. Do you want time to figure it out and lean back? Do that too. If the W wants what she wants, can't make up her mind about how she feels, yadayada... LET HER DO THE LEGWORK!!! LET HER MAKE THE INITIATIVE!!! If your IC is pushing the narrative, I would question and challenge his bias. If saving your marriage is what you still want? Or even just processing your sich, or feelings. Lean torwards YOUR BIAS in an IC.

Some days I want divorce, and I keep getting the papers ready for it. Other days, I just want to move on after all the trust issues broken, and ask what I am getting from any of this or from her?.. Nothing!!! Nothing but growing pains, learning experiences, and a new chapter. Some days I wonder? What if I just give it time and lean back, do nothing, and focus on me? The point to all this is... We only see what we see in the moment. We can't see what we/they will be like in a year or two or three. We might be totally different people? It might have a shot. I think that is the only thing my WAW got right on from IC alone which she shared with me. Is we don't know who we are going to become until we get there.

LH I know right now there is no incentive. At first I was ok with this limbo because she was not moving anything forward. But now I want there to be a direction which ever that direction might be. Whether it�s d or reconcile. Again the biggest road block I have is the child support. Not for nothing so took me for granted everything I did around the house, she downplayed it like it was no big deal. Cleaning the house, taking care of bills, garbage, mowing the lawn, weeding, leaves, pool, food shopping. I did all of that so yeah it�s nice I don�t have to do those things now living at my parents. Please don�t get me wrong, I want a house and I will do those things at my own home. But she needs to get a taste of what it will be like to be a single parent. Again, you have said it, I don�t want her to want me back to just do those things, but I do want her to understand and maybe, just maybe appreciate everything I did. I talked about what you have said to my IC about moving in and back into the MBR. Her response was, �what�s the point you are getting d anyway and will have to move back out and only cause more tension between the 2 of you.�

IH what I would love is to get my marriage back. Deep down I know her, I know that will not happen, because that would her be admitting she was wrong. My w is �never� wrong. And she is always more worried about what other people think than her own family. �How could she tell her friends she will take her husband back after all the horrible things he has done.� SARCASM THis would show she is weak. She would rather prove she is right than be wrong and have her family back. And trust me if we did reconcile, I would never throw that in her face that she was wrong. She makes it a point now to tell everyone that she is getting divorced. Like I said in a earlier post she changed her Facebook name to her maiden name. We are not even close to d yet. �How in the world could she explain to a few of her friends she went back to her married name.� AGAIN SARCASM. That�s what I am up against, she can�t tarnish her image. She can�t look like a liar to her friends. She �doesn�t lie.� Lol

W,

Under your current circumstances I can�t disagree with you that moving this along is in your best interest. If you were still in the home I would say what�s the rush.

Hi wolf,

I still feel like I am listening to bunch of high school virgins talking about how good they are in bed.

Santa is not real. Spouses cheat. So what?

Why are you so focused on this woman? Why are you not focused on yourself and your kids?

Why do you want to rush anything?

How do you get your MOJO back without sleeping with every woman that lets you?

How do you seduce your wife back?

This is a big onion with lot's of layers. Keep pealing back the layers.

Do you want to be married to someone who understands two POV? Or just one?.. THEY RE OWN!!

Yup sounds like pride to me!!! We are all guilty of it too. Just takes time to really realize when we have our humility moments, and whom we are dealing with, how stubborn that person is with their pride. Do you want to be married to that? No humility? No compromise, no willing to be wrong whrn someone points an error out?

R2C your question about how do I seduce her back? I believe it is by being happy around her all the time, other than that I don�t know. I know how to put moves on a woman but this is a different situation. DB stresses being detached and not pursuing. I know what to say to women and how to make hem feel sexy, but isn�t that pursue now for my w. I am good with the kids I make sure we are always having a good time anytime she is around.

IH you make it sound like I should end it. Is that what you are stressing? Isn�t that against what is stressed here?

I'm not stressing D for you Wolf. According to your post though, you made it sound like your wife would rather save face to her friends, and not turn back, than humble herself before her husband and family out of stubborn pride. Just to save face.

I'm just a newbie here just like you who has a lot of provocative thoughts about what most of us value and what we can do better to improve our thought process and situation in life.

Not me, not an IC, but you and you alone can only make that decision. Of course you know you're W better than anyone else (Or so you think?) Everyone has their pros and cons and goods and bad points. I just figured with your wife stubborn pride being a sticking point for you. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone that never admits when they're wrong? Just a thought that's all.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

R2C your question about how do I seduce her back? I believe it is by being happy around her all the time, other than that I don�t know.

That is why I proposed the question. It is much more than that. Projecting happy is just a small part.

Quote

I know how to put moves on a woman but this is a different situation.

Yes much different. Whole different ballgame. Can you turn her on (indirectly) and make her pursue you?

Quote

DB stresses being detached and not pursuing.

I believe seduction is much different than pursing.

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I know what to say to women and how to make them feel sexy

It is more about how to make her attracted to you. She knows you better than anyone on the planet. During this period of your personal growth, you need to make her question everything she thinks she knows about you.

Wolfy doesn't dress nice...Wait a minute? He is wearing new stylish clothes...
Wolfy doesn't take care of his body...Wait a minute, he has bigger muscles now....HUMM

Wolfy is boring.
Wolfie doesn't listen
Wolfie doesn't stand up to me
Wolfy this Wolfy that bla bla bla bla

I am just making those things up. You know the real beliefs W has.

R2C. I think I see where this is going now finally. I've been studying attraction for 20 years. My thing is though is I always knew how to get them but not keep them. I think I understand where Wolfie and you are coming from with this. Out of all the stuff I have read on a attraction as of lately. I've read all that stuff like The Game by Strauss, Robert Greene, etc years ago. I need to revisit it.

The second part is what I couldn't understand or get, is how do I apply to this situation like mine or Wolfie's, when somebody knows you from the inside out for several years. That's when it hit me just now, and I figure it out the dynamics of why you have to have them think differently about you. Because that is the excitement and the dynamics of when someone first meets you, like a first date. So if you are perceived as new, changing, mysterious, exciting, etc, it's almost like learning about a new person. If you aren't attracting them back, then either they have moved on or you are not changing.

I have these little blips of moments in my thoughts as of recently where I'm starting to see the whole DB process in synopsis, steps, processes and checkpoints. I think I'm starting to see the forest for the trees.

Step 1 is to accept the current reality. Make goals, changes, adapt, and conscientiously stick to them.
Step 2 is to detach and GAL to boost happiness, purpose, self esteem, etc.
Step 3 is to set boundaries to regain self respect, trust, intuition, confidence, etc.
Step 4 is to develop independence and eliminate codependency and control.
Step 5 is to redevelop your wants and needs.
Step 6 (If applicable.) Is to put yourself and your children first.
Step 7 is to allow time and space to heal.

Step 8 only comes, and revolves around attraction, once respect and trust is re-established if it ever is? Only then can you proceed to re attract, conscientiously and willingly.

Am I on to something or did I leave something out?

IH it�s amazing how I lost myself during this d. She is all about pride and you are right why would I want to be with someone like that? I don�t know, I guess because we built a life together, I don�t believe in d, we have been together for 19 years. I definitely deserve better. It looks like she is moving forward anyway. She emailed the mediator lawyer about getting the paperwork. Just when I thought maybe she was reconsidering. It really has brought me down today. Sorry LH for complaining. Everyone is different and this has really taken a toll on me. I want to so bad to say something to her about not doing this or reconsider but I won�t. Sometimes I feel like DB is more like preparing for d than saving a marriage. Sorry struggling. I felt like I was detaching and feeling better then I get hit with this and it brings me down. So I guess I was only fooling myself that I was getting detached. I want to reattract her but she is so stubborn nothing works on this woman. I have been very happy around her, dressing really nice, going to the gym and GAL. But she only remembers the mistakes I made. I want better and I deserve better. I wish I could have been a success story on here. But having the w I have I don�t think even MWD could have changed the situation around.

W,

How do you know you that you won�t be a success story? This is one chapter in a book of many. You have the power to make it a success story.

Unfortunately it takes more then dressing nice and going to the gym when you get to this point.

It�s ok to come here to vent sometimes. It�s just unproductive if that�s all that you do.

You will be fine one way another I promise you. It just takes time.

LH we are in the home stretch here. Picking up d paperwork is not a good sign. So much of me wants to text her ant talk her about this but I won�t. I feel like I have been trying a lot of what you guys have said. I feel like it honestly was drawn us apart more.
IH I like your stages I read that a few times. I guess the part I want to know more about is how to re attract her. She has noticed some things but it�s not enough. I guess one of the hardest things for me is, my w is the first person I truly loved. I had girlfriends in the past but I always knew I was not going to marry them. My w as soon as I dated her I knew she was the one. So I never had a breakup where I was in love. Maybe that�s why I struggle. I know it�s not over till it�s over. But like I said before her pride ruins relationships.
R2C how do I turn her on indirectly? I get stuck with doing things the thinking that is pursuit and stop myself. Tell me how to seduce from a distance? Like I said this is a whole new ballgame for me and I am lost.

W,

Just because you D doesn�t mean you can�t recon in the future. Most recons that last are years down the road.

As for DB, you really never really listened to anything we said so do you think that�s a fair assessment?

By the time you get to this point after b drop there are very few quick turnarounds to prevent the D. The real value in DB is about establishing tools to piece your life back together. That takes a lot of work, time and discipline. You have NGS which you have to work on if you want to prevent this from happening to you again in the future.

It makes me cringe when you ask about dating. There will be plenty time for that in the future after you resolve your issues. There is a saying around here �broken attracts broken�.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

R2C how do I turn her on indirectly?

There is a difference between "turning her on", being attractive, and seduction. know the difference.

During this process, it is critical that you change your belief system.

Search this post for Counter-intuitive ways to attract:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

During my sitch, I was reading at least 2 books a week trying to wrap my head around what went wrong. My X still does not talk to me. She is still angry. It has been over 10 years.

I feel that as long as your W is interacting with you, you have a chance of recon. Even after D paperwork has been filed and becomes a court order. You just can't be the guy she is divorcing. You have to completely reinvent yourself for you. If she likes what she is seeing, she may have a change of heart. She might not.

Speaking of "broken attracts broken" anyone ever seen Silver Linings Playbook?

R2C I looked at that thread. You listed a bunch of books. Which I will definitely read some of them. I am trying to reinvent myself. The first thing I did was purchase a whole new wardrobe. Second is just always be happy and fun and upbeat. She would complain that I was always in a bad mood when she got home. But I�m not doing it for her I am doing it for my kids now. This way they want to be around me. R2C can you tell me your interpretation of attraction, and seduction? Or anyone else for that matter.

If I observe several ladies, I can "rate" them on their attractiveness. They are not intentional doing anything to attract me. It is just their normal behavior, appearance etc.

Seduction is more about intention. If I want to seduce a woman, my behavior would be directed for reactions from her. I would be interacting with her on a regular basis. I have fun with my woman. I stir her emotions.

R2C's booklist is great. I have ordered nearly all of them from Amazon. I am now reading the Toltec wisdom books.

Question for everyone. Mother�s Day is coming up, do I take my kids to get something for wife? Or do I just let it happen?

You take your kids to get something for your W. She will do the same for you on Fathers Day.

I would also let the kids spend the day with their mom on mothers day. You go GAL.

So my w made the appointment to go see the mediator lawyer. We are going to pick up the paperwork for the d. I am very sad. I want to sit her down and talk to her but I won�t, that is not DB. My question to all of you, I have to just let this happen? There is nothing I can do. It�s hard to see the life we built come to an end. I am GAL and some what excited to see what�s in store. I am just one of those people that hates change. I failed at DB, and will be a single father soon enough. I will keep validating, GAL, detaching until it is official but it�s not looking good. Thank you all you great people for the advice, I admit I dropped the ball many times. My emotions got the best of me. I will continue to stay on here even after my d. Hopefully I can help people not make the same mistakes I did. A SPECIAL THANKS TO:
Steve, LH, AS, R2C you guys did your best to keep me on track. I think I will go have a beer and go to bed early tonight. If there is anything else I should be doing at this point I am all ears.
The other thing, I have been reading some of Sandi�s old threads and man you guys were right. I lost my man card, I am going to get that back. One question about that. How do I do that when I am suppose to be validating all the time? Because Joan after rereading her threads I am ready to not take her BS anymore. Man I missed that, you guys weee telling me and I really dropped the ball, particularly mine.

We all gave our balls away. Just take them back.

Set her free. Figure out if you want to be weekend dad or week on week off dad. Your kids need both parents equally in their lives. Go into mediation with your balls.

"I don't want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me"
"I do not share my woman with other men"
"What is best for my kids is best for me"
"Happiness is a do it yourself job"

You can handle it

W,

There is nothing you can do to stop it you just have to let go. Even if you DBed like a champion this would most likely be the end result. You will see things much clearer down the road. I think right now you have to get back to the basics for your own emotional well being. Print of Sandi�s rules and read them once a day and follow them to a T. You want your man card back then you�re going to have to earn it. Starting right now every decision you make is what�s best for you and the kids. All your actions come from a place of strength and integrity. No responses to texts that are not about the children or finances.

All the great success stories on here are from people who decided they were going to learn everything they could on what it takes to have a great relationship so this will never happen to them again. I myself have read almost 50 books on relationships and understanding women and I probably have 50 more to go. You should start with No More Mr. Nice Guy. You have what�s known as Nice Guy Syndrome where you do things for people expecting something in return. The problem is the people have no idea what you�re looking for in return so your expectations are never met which in turn makes you try harder and is a never ending cycle.

Take a year to research and learn about healthy relationships, boundaries and just learn to love yourself and develop an awesome relationship with your kids before dating. If you�re not ready it will be a disaster. I just posted on another thread to a guy who wasn�t sure if he was in an exclusive relationship with a woman who lived far away and they only met twice and were not intimate. People clearly jump in way too fast.

Lastly, I know you want to have that last convo with her so when you do just make sure you put on your jock strap because you are going to get one more last kick in the nuts.

Here�s a quote on my computer screen: Change is painful, growth is painful but there is nothing more painful then staying where you don�t belong.

Stay strong my friend!

Originally Posted by LH19

W

Lastly, I know you want to have that last convo with her so when you do just make sure you put on your jock strap because you are going to get one more last kick in the nuts.

What do you mean by this?

She was saying today how this is going to be financially hard. I said I k ow this is going to be real difficult. I wanted to say what the hell did you think this was going to be? After rereading Sandis words of wisdom on the 3 feelings they have. That is my w. Resentment, rebellion and disrespect. I felt like I was reading about my w. If only I would have found this at the beginning of our separation. I tried 3 other programs before this one. Yes paid programs. When I could have just bought her book and come on here. It�s so weird to think a year ago my w was planning a surprise 40 birthday party for me and we had an amazing time to a year later divorced. Who knows where I will be 1 year from now. Oh and by the way my dad just BD on my mom. Now they are getting divorced. How much more can I take??

IH I forgot to give you a shout out too for all your help!! Thanks

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=62205&Number=2847833#Post2847833

Here is the new thread. Please help. I am spinning out of control.