Hi Friends,
I am glad that I found this place and that gives me a lot of hope. I am a newcomer and here is my story.
Wife started affair in 12/2018 with a coworker. I was on a business trip at that time and when I returned in 01/2019, she told me that she did not love me anymore and wanted to separate. At that time she did not mention anything about the affair. I was so taken back by this and did all the "Don't do " things like begging and crying and pleading her to stay and work on our marriage. That pushed her further away.
She told me that I have emotionally drained her and caused her to have low self esteem and she hates me for that and does not want to be in the relationship. I do take responsibility for my actions and agree that I was not perfect and ignored her and did not provide emotional support, affection or validation. I asked her at that time if there was anyone else in her life and she declined.
Over next few weeks (around end of 01/19), I found out that she was in an affair with her coworker through messages on her phone, but I did not say anything or confront her.
As Sandi2 has mentioned in other posts, I could swear that she will never ever be in an affair and she also used to condemn people who did that. Now, she has become a tremendous liar and lies about everything. She is ignoring our daughter and not spending time with her.
After the affair started, they started working remotely and she would leave home saying that she was going to office and went to OMs place ( he is divorced) and they worked from there. She was so mentally checked out from outer world and just focussing on her affair and that led to her losing her job (for which she also blamed me that I caused her so much stress that she could not focus on her job)
She does not have a job right now and is living with me in our apartment, but still leaves home some days and goes to OMs place and comes back around 10 in the night. As per 180 rule, i do not ask her anything and just focus on myself and my daughter.
She mentioned that she has taken an apartment nearby and will be moving there by end of next week and has said that we will have our daughter's custody 50/50. (No legal separation).
She still thinks that I do not know about the affair and I am not sure if I should confront her or not.
I think, if i will confront her, she may feel relieved and file for divorce immediately. So not sure, wht is the best option.
I really want to save my MR and want my family together, but seeing her become a different person and how she is hostile against everything, I don't see much hope.
Would like to have your opinion and guidance. Cadet, Sandi2...
Thanks,
Vik
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m and ww in 30s
- D4
- m 10 yrs, t16
- BD 01/19, confirm ea and pa
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Vik sorry man, I know it is tough. Your sitch has many parallels to mine, but the big difference being that my W never went physical with her online EA.
You will get varying opinions on confronting or not. I personally think you should confront her. I have said to other's here that women that are "pulling one over" on thieir LBH do not respect him. I saw one sitch where the woman in an affair would say to others "I can't believe that he is not smart enough to figure out or know that I am having an affair." So I believe you should confront her. However, tell her WHAT you know, but not HOW you know! Keep her guessing. To me that is one of the biggest tools in the cheated on spouse's arsenal is when the cheating spouse is constantly wondering "How did he find out? How did he know?"
She will ask. She will hammer on how you know. DO NOT tell her. Just stick to WHAT you know.
However, tell her WHAT you know, but not HOW you know! Keep her guessing. To me that is one of the biggest tools in the cheated on spouse's arsenal is when the cheating spouse is constantly wondering "How did he find out? How did he know?"
I recommend one better.
Never reveal your source(s) of intel.
Do not reveal WHAT you know.
Do not reveal HOW you know.
Just let her know that you DO know. "Stop, we both know you are lying" or "I am not stupid."
Read this:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045336#Post2045336and this:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045995#Post2045995
"we both know what you are up to, I am not an idiot"
"we both know what you are up to, I am not an idiot"
I like this! I remember when my W was taking an hour or more to drop our daughter off at school (normally a 20 minutes process), and I told her her: "I am not stupid." That was a head shot! She couldn't get over that. I think because she realized that she wasn't getting away with what she thought she was getting away with.
Thanks a lot guys for your help and advice.
Well, as I mentioned that she is moving out next week, what else should I say while confronting.
I understand I will tell her that I know of the affair and then what?(as I know when I will do that, she will say yes, I have an affair and want to divorce you.
Also, I think as she is involved with OM, she will be planning to file divorce soon and marry that guy.
Also, I have read in other posts that as we will be separated, I wont have a chance to set boundaries.
The affair has been going on for 3-4 months, so, I belive it will be at its peak and I am not sure if she will be willing to talk of any reconciliation. She has vilified me so much and has so much of resentment, I don't know where to begin and what I should do.
Just wanted to add some more details here:
- My wife is an introvert and whenever there was any argument, I would take my anger out and she kept her anger inside and I know that it kept building over time and exploded in this way. . (Her deciding to not staying married to me
also starting the affair.). Resentment built over time and she mentioned that because of my emotional abuse, she lost self esteem and holds me responsible for that. (I do take responsibility for that and am already in therapy to fix that, but as Sandi mentioned in her posts, according to my wife, it is too little, too late.)
- She is deeply involved with OM and is planning to divorce me and marry him. (Saw text on her phone)
- As the affair started, she did not pay attention to her job and lost the job in 03/19. Held me responsible for that and said that because of you, i could not focus on the job and was fired. (In reality, the reason was that she did not focus on the job and used to go to OMs place almost everyday and work from there. Or I guess the found out the she is having affair with coworker and fired her, but I am not sure.)
- I have known about the affair for a month and feel stupid that I did not confront her at that time
. Now when she is about to move out in a week, i feel i lost the opportunity to confront and show my detachment when she was living in the house.
- I am planning to talk to her parents as well (who do not live in US) and expose the affair to them. Wanted to know if that is a GOOD IDEA? I feel responsible for letting them know as I was the one who asked for their daughter's hand for marriage, and also feel that it may create some consequences for her. (Though she is not even talking to them and acting as a rebellion against all who are related to her like friends and family. The only person, she talks to these days in the OM (girl gone wild syndrome).
Also want to point out that she has resentment against her mother for not treating her well during childhood and making her have low self esteem. My therapist also mentioned that as she already had these issues in her when you got married, anything small you might have done have affected her more than a normal person in the marriage.
Thanks again Steve85 and Ready2Change for your valuable inputs and resources. Much appreciated.
Would love to hear from other vets like Sandi2 also as she brings the perspective of WW and have read her posts which exactly highlight and define my wife these days (Basically not the person I married but an alien who I don't know)
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m 37 and ww 34
- D 2.5
- m 10 yrs, t16
- BD 01/19, confirm ea and pa
Have you read DR ? Have you considered a coach session ? If you are expecting “do this tactic and all will be good” , then you are going to be disappointed . First off do not panic and do anything major . Get hold of yourself so you can make the right ACTION .
So first off you cannot control her !! Only you, your posts are all based on her and her act, these you cannot control , but in time ( not now ) you can influence.
Repeat , you want a magic bullet then I suggest you will be disappointed.
I am surprised about how many people here have not read the book and have no idea of the techniques, clue this site does not express the things in the book , they are just additional.
Read this from a master , I I expect with no job her funds will be tight . Shore up your money . Let OM pay her upkeep. , see how fairytale that one works out . Get improving yourself physically and mentally
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks a lot Tryhard and I agree with your comments and thanks for the thread you posted.
I know I have to detach and work on my self and that is what I doing. Will buy the book today itself.
The only thing was that i wanted to know from the people who have gone from the same experience so share their thoughts becuase they will help me decide how to proceed further without causing damage/further damage.
I am confused about confronting and that experience I would still like to know from other members who have done i and what worked and what did not, how did they do it, was there anything specific that made a huge impact, anything that deteriorated things.
So that is why I had put in the questions and some details as to ensure that they have some background.
I
R2C nailed it. Tell her you know. Not what you know or how you know.
I would do it before she moves out.
There is a saying around here that things have to get worse before they get better.
Sorry and glad you are here Vik.
Just take some time to relax. You are not in a hurry, in fact time is your ally. Use that time wisely.
Keep reading, keep posting.
Do as R2C says. You need to regain some respect. Then set her free: "W you are free to go, good luck. See you around"
Detach, GAL, be there for your kid, set boundaries.
Be strong, your journey is just starting. You have a goal, get into amoafwl. Start walking. It´s a marathon, keep the pace.
What happens if she says after confrontation that as things are out in open now, I want a divorce as I plan to be with OM.
I don't want divorce but want to know how should I react if that is what my WW says.
I plan to confront her this Saturday and really want to make sure that i have answers to all that can be thrown my way.
Steve85, I don't think I have a choice as I have to keep my emotions in check.
But knowing what can come my way and how to respond can help me prepare better and also keep my emotions in control.
I dread the D word that I may hear, but I have to face the reality and not bury my head in sand.
As she is moving out next week, I want to make sure I confront her before that and keep my self respect intact.
I am with you. On BD for me my W said she didn't want to be married anymore. She said she wanted to get a job, get an apartment, and get a D.
15 months later our MR 2.0 is in full swing. What you may hear IS not a guarantee of what will be. Remember that. In my case I think my W was basically saying, "I am telling you it is over so you will back off and let me do what I want to do." In hindsight I don't think she ever truly intended to go through with it.
BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT THEY DO.
Steve85 - Was she a WW or WAW?
Steve85,
Do you have posts that describe/show your journey and what all you did and how the fog got removed from your's wife's head?
Steve85,
Do you have posts that describe/show your journey and what all you did and how the fog got removed from your's wife's head?
You can start here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=61151&Number=2778449#Post2778449
So sorry you are in this situation. In my opinion, you should let her know that you know she is lying. You dont have to say how you found out. Its time to focus on yourself. Use this gift of time to be the best father and the best version of yourself possible. Stop any toxic behavior. Your M is over. Drop all expectations that your WW will come around because in reality she most likely wont. Is there a chance she will? Yes, but its not going to be based on anything you do.
I wouldnt agree to any custody arrangement without a formal binding agreement. Seems to me like shes trying to get out and divorce and now that shes unemployed ask for alimony and child support. Go talk to a lawyer and see if you can get a custody agreement written up.
If she leaves she is abandoning the marriage. Thats fault in some states. Good thing is that it looks bad to lose a job or quit then try and get support.
My STBXWW acted the same way. It was my fault she slept with her married boss. She mistreated me horribly. I dropped 100lbs, look amazing, set myself up financially and pushed the eject button. None of us deserve to be treated like we are expendable. You will be fine. It hurts badly, worse than anything you will ever encounter in life. But you will get through it.
My D is an open case, pending with the courts. Should be done soon. I did IHS since September 2018. It is as hard but i detached and dropped the rope. I deserve a wonderful caring woman who is devoted to me, my WW is not that person and she never will be again.
Good luck.
SoTorn ^^^^^^ self respect
Absolutely. My self esteem and self love are stringer than ever.
I don't know if you'll see my post before you confront your WW, but I'd like to give you a few thoughts. I am not against confrontation.......as long as you understand a few things. Confrontation will not change her mind. It won't wake her up from her fantasy world. It won't give her a sense of relief, like you suggested. It won't even push her to file for D any faster than not confronting her. It won't do anything but let her know that you have not been deceived. Do I think you should confront her? If it is to your advantage, then yes. I just want you to understand it won't change her decision. I agree with the other posters that you NEVER reveal your sources, and trust me......she will want to know how you know. When you are celebrating your 50th anniversary, you still NEVER reveal sources.
Meet with a lawyer ASAP to see where you stand legally, and take steps to protect your finances. You love this woman, but I promise you can't trust her. She isn't the person you've known for sixteen years. You will score no points with her by being a pushover. So, stand up for yourself.
As for exposing her affair to the parents.......what do you wish to accomplish? She doesn't have a close relationship, and they aren't going to talk her out of the affair. Unless they financially support her, what can they do to make her stay with you? Nothing! Now, if you want them to know the truth of why a divorce is coming......then that's up to you. I'm just saying don't expose with the idea it is going to prevent her from divorcing you.
Another thing I noticed is how you referred to yourself as emotionally abusing your WW. I think the abuse word is used to easily these days. I don't want to sound as if I'm trying to down play true cases of abuse. I am, however, saying not to take the word of a cheating, wayward wife that she was abused. There is a different heart and mindset in an abused victim than that of a wayward wife. Could you have been a better H? Yes, by reading your first post, I'd say it sounds as if you could have done a better job, but I wouldn't be so quick to classify it as abuse. Therefore, I am suggesting you not refer to yourself as an abuser.
If you don't want a D, then don't file. If she wants one, she can do the work. You can't force someone to love you. You let her be, and stop being a part of her world, and she may eventually come back. You co-parent, but you don't become buddies, if you know what I mean. Not while she's seeing OM. Be friend-ly, but not BFF's. Being pals is a death trap for the LBH, b/c his goal and her goal in the friendship are as far as east from west.
Keep posting and reading.
((hugs))
Thanks a lot Sandi....I appreciate your reply and definitely would consider each point you have mentioned.
To just update you on what you have mentioned, here are my thoughts:
1. I am confronting her because I want peace of mind and want to let her know that she was not deceiving me, but I kept quiet to ensure that my daughter gets time with both of us for some days. I will also ask her to leave as soon as possible (if it is next weekend, then she should try and leave sooner). I am not sure if confronting her brings any advantage or not.
2. Will try and book appointment with a lawyer as soon as possible. Though she has mentioned that we will have 50/50 custody of our daughter. As you say we can't trust them, an example of that is "few weeks back when she lost her job, she asked me to start paying daycare expenses for our daughter till she gets the job, and on the other hand she is renting an apartment for the same amount to just be away from me" . I so wanted to tell her that if you have no job, then why are you in hurry to take a separate apartment, but didn't say anything.
3. As far as exposing to her parents is concerned, I just thought it to be my moral responsibility to tell her father that this is why we are getting divorced and not what your daughter is going to tell you or is telling you. Also, they live in another country and they called me yesterday mentioning that they are planning to be here this month end and will try and talk to her to think through before making any decision as they told me that they are in favor of this marriage being restored and they trust me completely. I was planning to tell my wife while confronting that she should tell her father about the affair in 5 days and i she does not, then I will. I am not sure how that will turn out, but I know for a fact my wife will hate me for that, but I see it as a last ditch effort and worth trying.
4. About the abuse thing, post affair she went to a IC and was told that she has been abused and I surely take some responsibility, but not sure how counsellors can pass judgements without talking to both parties. Though thanks a lot for your kind words and I will try and not look at myself as one.
Also, in my heart I still believe, whatever I did, it did not call for an extramarital affair. I did that not consciously (though i feel remorse for what I did), but affair was a choice she made knowingly and that hurts deep.
5. Sure, as I stand for my marriage, I will not be filing for divorce and would convey the message that we are co- parents and not friends, till she is still involved with the other man.
Also, if you have any specifics about what i can sat while confronting, would be great to have your two cents.
Thanks again for your words of wisdom and I feel gratitude towards you from all LBHs whom you help and support without fail.
Appreciate it.
HI friends,
Firstly, thanks to all the members who gave their suggestions and advice.
Update- My wife is moving out to an apartment 3 miles from where I live.
The hostility in her conversations has decreased and the messages she sends are pertaining to our 2 year old daughter, but atleast communication is happening. I guess she is relieved that she is leaving and will have free access to her AP for the days my daughter will be with me.
FYI....I have not confronted her yet about the affair.
I was planning to confront her and as per Sandi, it is not going to change anything and now I am in doubt and don't know if I do or should not do.
IF I DO
- If I do confront her, then that would mean that the communication that has improved will again stall.
- She may think as the affair is out in open, she may be pushed further towards her AP.
- She if in any scenario, may want to come back in few months,will have resistance and guilt and shame, if she knows that I was aware of the affair going on.
- May intensify her feelings towards the AP
- The days we have left together (this week basically), will be awkward and I am not sure how to deal with it.
IF I DON'T - If I don't confront her, then
- I will not have the peace of mind that I told her before she left that I was not deceived, but did not confront her earlier because I wanted our daughter to have as much family time as possible.
- There is a possibility that once she moves out and realizes that the fantasy world she was living in is different than the real world and may have second thoughts.
- If she believes that I am not aware of the affair, the road back is easier. Once she is back, definitely we will talk about the affair and recovery.
- Communication while she is living separately will be ok and may have opportunities to talk about stuff other than our daughter and may help rebuilding (maybe, but seems difficult).
PLEASE PLEASE help me with this dilemma.
All the vets on this forum, would request you to please help me decide what way to take.
i guess the fear of losing her is gripping my rational thinking and I really want to do what works and not what i feel will work.
I just have this week to have this conversation and I want to do it as soon as possible.
I am going to refrain. I never contradict Sandi but there is no way I couldn't confront if it were me.
Listen to Sandi. She is the best.
Thanks Steve85 and I also think the same as you do.
But what Sandi mentioned was that is not going to do anything, then why not do it.
Atleast that gives me peace that she does not laugh with her AP about deceiving me and how big a fool I was.
Though I know that this should not be the reason I should confront. (Don't want to go by what I feel, but what works).
@ Sandi,
Your two cents would be really helpful.
FYI....I have not confronted her yet about the affair.
I was planning to confront her and as per Sandi, it is not going to change anything and now I am in doubt and don't know if I do or should not do.
Vik, here's the deal. She probably doesn't care whether you know or not, but she hasn't told you because she thinks it's none of your business. My XW was more of a WAW than a WW, but even she became super-secretive and I became the last to know ANYTHING going on with her. The mailman and random strangers knew stuff before I did. This is your new situation, and it's hard to accept I know. So whatever you think you might gain from confronting her, you're probably wrong. It'll probably just bring you more pain and heartache because her response will show you she's way more gone than you realize.
i guess the fear of losing her is gripping my rational thinking and I really want to do what works and not what i feel will work.
She's already gone. She considered the two of you "divorced" at BD. You can't get her back through confronting her, and you can't get her back by not confronting her. She's gone either way. Now maybe some day she will come back, but not now and not anytime soon. These things take a lot of time to resolve. For now you have to let her go wallow in the mess she's creating.
I know what you are saying Anotherstander is the hard reality but when I think of the mess she is creating, I see my daughter who is just two suffering and getting scars that may not heal.
That is just what kills me every night when I go to bed. She did not deserve any of this, she deserved an effort by both her parents to give her a family/save the family she deserves.
I know I have been wrong and I am responsible partly for the situation, but not the affair and I believe if it was not there, reconciliation would have been possible.
But my W chose the path that will just bring destruction for all (her family, my family, our daughter).
I wonder how people can change that much, be so selfish that they don't care about the pain they are causing to all in their life.
If she is gone already, then why should I worry about not telling her what I know and how it is affecting our daughter and our lives.I don't want to beg but atleast want to tell her that I am strong and I will come out of this stronger than before.
The limerence [censored] and worst part is that they don't care about anyone anymore, just their happiness (which also won't last long considering the pain and hurt they are causing to get that. (We reap what we sow.).
Sorry, but just wanted to vent..Feeling of losing family that you built for last 10 years, losing the dreams you had for the family, your kids, I guess is the worst pain in the world.
Hope I can look back someday and say, I survived it.
Based on all of my experience so far in my sitch, expect the unexpected. My wife and I were arguing at each other. I finally felt like I was detached. I stood up to her in our communication and told her my conditions, called her BFF a B a few times. Talked dissolution and other things. 10 days later, she had me snuggling and kissing her and now I am back to trying to pick up the pieces and detaching again.
So what I am saying is, she is gone either way. It takes a while to realize that. You can't control if she files for divorce or doesn't. You control yourself and can be the best father in the world. I focus on my children and focus on working out and taking care of myself.
My BIL said it best. I was too focused on her being the prize. He said that is not the way to look at it. You are the prize. She needs to feel the loss of you. She needs to win you back, the prize. Stay strong...just when you think you are doing good, the WW will sense that and test you. Don't do what I did and fall for it...stick to your boundaries and conditions. AT ALL COSTS!
Stay strong and continue DBing!
You will survive Vik. Choose the way to get your respect back.
I was a wwH some time ago. Selfishness and limerence was a big portion of my world. But when confronted by W, I chose my family then and here I am. You have been reading into the forum so you know that no matter how much W rushes to get away, it all takes time and suffering. You can control what you control: yourself.
Get some lawyer´s advice and start walking your road. Detach, protect yourself. Be there for your D.
Dignity and respect Vik
Be strong man. Keep DB.
(((Vik)))
That is just what kills me every night when I go to bed. She did not deserve any of this, she deserved an effort by both her parents to give her a family/save the family she deserves.
Half of marriages end in divorce. And the other half that don't end in D, I would love to know how many of those are broken, messed up M's. I bet it's a lot. Your daughter is not going through something unique here. After my D I was hiking with my younger daughter and told her I was sorry she and her siblings had to go through our D. Do you know what she said? That XW and I had 20 years together and that was pretty impressive in this day and age, and that even after D we both worked hard to show them how important they were to us, and we always put them first, and that she couldn't ask for more than that. I have some pretty darned smart kids. You can't control whether your M makes it or not. But you can control what kind of parent you are to your D. Focus on what you can control.
But my W chose the path that will just bring destruction for all (her family, my family, our daughter).
I know it all seems catastrophic to you right now and I know you are hurting, but this isn't going to destroy anything other than the M itself. Her family will be good, so will yours, so will your D. It'll all work out. Be patient and give it time. Quit blaming W and stop the unhealthy thoughts.
If she is gone already, then why should I worry about not telling her what I know and how it is affecting our daughter and our lives.
Tell her or don't tell her, it makes no difference. But SHE will blame YOU. She'll explain in WAS terms why it's all your fault, why your actions FORCED her to have an affair and blah blah blah. You're just going to get a big face full of WAS script and no closure or feelings of peace or anything. Just understand that going in.
I don't want to beg but atleast want to tell her that I am strong and I will come out of this stronger than before.
She won't believe it. SHOW her, don't TELL her. Ask yourself how you can show her inner strength in the face of this.
I am going to refrain. I never contradict Sandi but there is no way I couldn't confront if it were me.
Well, thank you, Steve. But I think I might have been misunderstood.
People get the idea I don't support confrontation. I don't have a problem with it. I merely try to explain that confrontation, alone, doesn't change the situation. That's not to say the LBH shouldn't call the WW out on her affair. So many LBH's think once they approach the WW and tell her he knows about the OM, it will stop her dead in her tracks. I don't recall a confrontation stopping a WW once an affair had started.......not just by telling her what the LBH knows. She may confess, or she may announce she wants an immediate divorce. I remember several cases where the WW pretended to have ended things with OM, etc., but she had no intentions of working on her MR. This is what I wanted you (Vik) to realize. In other words, think it through carefully, and know that you are confronting her for the right reason.
Yes, you could have confronted her and told her you had not been deceived......if it would give you some sense of satisfaction. I didn't think it was a good idea to tell her to move a week earlier than she had already planned. IMO, it didn't make you look like a big strong man to tell her to get out a week before she had scheduled, b/c you've gone..... how long knowing about the OM and didn't say a word?
I will comment on the things you said, but I want to make it clear that I am not nit-picking. It's impossible to get everything said in the first few posts, so we usually reply to whatever the newcomer says.
IF I DO
- If I do confront her, then that would mean that the communication that has improved will again stall.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm simply asking a question. Other than something that regards the children or business, why are you worried if she doesn't want to communicate with you? I want you to understand something about a WW. As long as you play the role of her BFF, she will communicate. She may text you half to death......but you will discover it is always about "her". WW's are incredibly selfish. If she doesn't benefit some how, then she's not interested. She will communicate during her pity parties, or when she's mad, when she's bored, when she wants something, etc. But it seldom leads to place the LBH initially hoped. Therefore, give some thought about what you are wanting out of her communication, b/c she is not leaving in order to work on the MR. She has fired you as her H. So what do you have to talk about? I'm just asking.
- She may think as the affair is out in open, she may be pushed further towards her AP.
Are you saying that if you confront her, she'll think the affair is public, so it will push her closer to the OM? You can't control what she does. You have to make decisions based on what is best for you, and let her do the same. It's hard to let go of it, but you didn't have any control over her anyway.
- She if in any scenario, may want to come back in few months,will have resistance and guilt and shame, if she knows that I was aware of the affair going on.
This is the wrong type of thinking, IMHO. You would choose not to call her out on her cheating, b/c it might make her feel guilt and shame??? Are you willing to live with that secret, just so it won't cause resistance to her return? I believe stubborn pride is the biggest factor for resistance in the WW. If she returned, believing you knew nothing about her cheating behavior, she would likely continue to be untrustworthy throughout the M. The WW has to face truth/reality and consequences, and if you are lucky, she will be hit with a big dose of remorse & humility. It is very important to her recovery from waywardness to feel remorse for her deceit and infidelity (and that's just part of the work she'll need to do). Don't even think about taking her back under false pretenses.
- May intensify her feelings towards the AP
So what if it did? Things are going to get worse before they get better, so you make your decisions based on what is best for you. Let go of trying to control what she feels.
- The days we have left together (this week basically), will be awkward and I am not sure how to deal with it.
So what? (Learn to think, "So what".) It should be awkward for her once she's confronted with the truth.......however, it seldom has that affect on the WW. She feels justified and entitled. If you confront her with the truth, then just leave her alone. Don't continue to discuss the relationship. She needs to be left to wonder what you will do. Don't make any promises or threats. Once you confront, leave her alone. Don't fret about it, and don't try to carry on a conversation, except if necessary for the kids. Face your fear of awkwardness, Vik.
All in all.......I find none of these reasons sufficient in support of why you shouldn't confront. This is really a list of fears. ((hugs))
- IF I DON'T - If I don't confront her, then I will not have the peace of mind that I told her before she left that I was not deceived, but did not confront her earlier because I wanted our daughter to have as much family time as possible.
Not sure if I understand this statement. If confronting will give you peace of mind, then let that be on your list for pro-confrontation......
period. It has nothing to do with controlling her. And, don't use your daughter as an excuse for not confronting your WW.
- There is a possibility that once she moves out and realizes that the fantasy world she was living in is different than the real world and may have second thoughts.
That possibility has absolutely nothing to do with you not confronting her. Again, you sound as if covering her secret will instigate her return, and it simply doesn't work that way with WW's. My question is why would you even want her coming home thinking you weren't any wiser to her deeds? Look, the WW has lost respect for her H. The fact that she believes she has outsmarted him, does not help. Every action the LBH takes needs to be seen as reflecting his inner strength.....b/c strength is the only thing the WW respects.
- If she believes that I am not aware of the affair, the road back is easier. Once she is back, definitely we will talk about the affair and recovery.
Oh me, oh me.
I see fear and control in the statement above.......with some fantasy thrown in the mix. In one of my WW threads I explain the road back for the wayward W.......and it should not be too easy, b/c she needs to work for it. Otherwise, the likelihood of full recovery is not that great.
- Communication while she is living separately will be ok and may have opportunities to talk about stuff other than our daughter and may help rebuilding (maybe, but seems difficult).
Well, this is basically what you've previously said, so I will respond the same. Why do you want to talk about other stuff with a woman who chose another man over you? If she doesn't want you, do you think nice conversation will change her feelings? This is not the girl you married! She has changed. She doesn't respect you. Lack of respect is the backdrop of waywardness. I think you hope to persuade her to return home by being the nice guy.......and it's that nice-guy syndrome that caused her to disrespect you in the first place.
I hope you can take my frank way of speaking. I am not intentionally trying to give you more pain. I want to help you, and I suspect you will need to read a little book called, No More Mr. Nice Guy. There is a commonality with WW's. They seem to be married to men who have the NGS. It's an interesting observation.
i guess the fear of losing her is gripping my rational thinking and I really want to do what works and not what i feel will work.
Yes, your fear is overtaking you. ((hugs))
I just have this week to have this conversation and I want to do it as soon as possible.
The above statement is an example of your fear talking. You said you just have this week to have the conversation. IMHO, that implies you believe the confrontation is suppose to prevent your WW leaving. I have tried to explain how it won't control what she does or how she feels. You can confront her with the truth and let her know she has not made a fool of you. You can do it for your own personal satisfaction......but don't have expectations of it affecting her decisions or feelings. Don't plan to have a long relationship conversation, b/c you will say too much. You can't believe what she says anyway. Not at this point.
Thnaks a lot Neffer, Anthony, AnotherStander and Sandi for your detailed suggestions and advice.
I can't thank you enough for the clarity that you guys bring.
So, after thinking, i think atleast I should let her know that i know of the affair and was not being deceived.I guess I should be ready to bear the consequences and no pint putting my head in sand, because not confronting also is not getting me any benefit (unless you guys think it does and if you do, please let me know).
I plan to say the following:
WW,
I know that you are having an affair with your ex colleague "XXXX" and it breaks my heart to know that there is someone else in your life who is more important to you than me and is tearing our family apart.
.
WW - Nothing like this is there and there is no affair, he is just a good friend.
Vik11- Please do not lie anymore and disrespect me and our daughter.
I will not tolerate your deceit and allow you to continue to lie to your parents as well. They are good people and
don't want them to think that our marriage broke just because of the reasons that you have given me.They
deserve to know the truth on our side as well, because i took your hand from your father and I feel responsible.
WW - Ok, yes i have an affair and you are responsible for that. You pushed me into that.
Vik11 - I know that I did things that strained our MR and the reasons that you gave me have merit and I am working
on fixing those and will continue to do so for my personal growth and other relations.While what I did was
subconcious, you made a conscious choice to be in affair, knowing well the damage it will be causing.So, I
take the 50% responsibility for my actions that deteriorated our MR, but the affair is on you. You decided to
choose affair over family, infedility over trust and marriage.
What are you going to tell your daughter in future, when she faces issues and going gets tough in her life?
That she should cut and run?
If you decide to continue the affair, we can't be friends as you had mentioned in one of your messages. As
we have to coparent our daughter, we will be only talking/messaging regarding our daughter.
WW - So, if you know that I don't want to be with you, I will file the divorce soon.
Vik11 - That is your choice. I don't want a divorce, but if it is something that you want, go ahead and do as you
please. I will have my lawyer reply and till the time divorce doesn't get final, do not expose our daughter to
OM, otherwise I may have to proceed legally on that as well
After this, i will leave the room.
What do you guys think. Is this OK.
I know the conversation can go in any direction, but I wanted to make sure I had answers for main things I know will come during discussion.
If you think there is anything I need to change, please let me know or if you think I need to be prepared for some other points, would appreciate your inputs. (I PLAN TO DO IT TOMORROW, SO WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU CAN TAKE SOME OF YOUR TIME TODAY TO GO THROUGH THIS AND REPLY)
Thanks again for all your support and guidance. You guys feel like family that understands my pain and knows exactly where it hurts and what I should do.
@Sandi,
I have known about the affair for around 1.5 months and total affair time is 3 months.
WW,
I know that you are having an affair with your ex colleague "XXXX" and it breaks my heart to know that there is someone else in your life who is more important to you than me and is tearing our family apart.
.
WW - Nothing like this is there and there is no affair, he is just a good friend.
Vik11- Please do not lie anymore and disrespect me and our daughter.
I will not tolerate your deceit and allow you to continue to lie to your parents as well. They are good people and
don't want them to think that our marriage broke just because of the reasons that you have given me.They
deserve to know the truth on our side as well, because i took your hand from your father and I feel responsible.
WW - Ok, yes i have an affair and you are responsible for that. You pushed me into that.
Vik11 - I know that I did things that strained our MR and the reasons that you gave me have merit and I am working
on fixing those and will continue to do so for my personal growth and other relations.While what I did was
subconcious, you made a conscious choice to be in affair, knowing well the damage it will be causing.So, I
take the 50% responsibility for my actions that deteriorated our MR, but the affair is on you. You decided to
choose affair over family, infedility over trust and marriage.
What are you going to tell your daughter in future, when she faces issues and going gets tough in her life?
That she should cut and run?
If you decide to continue the affair, we can't be friends as you had mentioned in one of your messages. As
we have to coparent our daughter, we will be only talking/messaging regarding our daughter.
WW - So, if you know that I don't want to be with you, I will file the divorce soon.
Vik11 - That is your choice. I don't want a divorce, but if it is something that you want, go ahead and do as you
please. I will have my lawyer reply and till the time divorce doesn't get final, do not expose our daughter to
OM, otherwise I may have to proceed legally on that as well
After this, i will leave the room.
What do you guys think. Is this OK.
I know the conversation can go in any direction, but I wanted to make sure I had answers for main things I know will come during discussion.
If you think there is anything I need to change, please let me know or if you think I need to be prepared for some other points, would appreciate your inputs. (I PLAN TO DO IT TOMORROW, SO WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU CAN TAKE SOME OF YOUR TIME TODAY TO GO THROUGH THIS AND REPLY)
Vik, you can't reason with her, you also can't guilt her and you can't blame her like you are trying to do because she will throw it right back in your face and explain (or more likely, scream) about why it's all your fault. If you want to let her know you know about the affair, then just keep it short and sweet. "W, I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of your affair and I am disgusted by your behavior." That's it. No more needs to be said. If she denies just look her straight in the eye and say "we both know that's not true." If she persists just say "I just wanted to tell you that I know, and that's all I have to say about it".
THAT IS ALL. Do it calmly, without anger or hatred or anything in your voice. You're just informing her. DO NOT ENGAGE IN AN R TALK, which is what you're trying to do above.
Please do not lie anymore and disrespect me and our daughter.
Do not use D against her, D doesn't have any place in a discussion about an affair.
I will not tolerate your deceit and allow you to continue to lie to your parents as well. They are good people and don't want them to think that our marriage broke just because of the reasons that you have given me.They deserve to know the truth on our side as well, because i took your hand from your father and I feel responsible.
Do not use her parents against her either. That will backfire on you in spectacular fashion, because at the end of the day if you force their hands her parents WILL stand with her and not you. It's far better to not involve them at all and just try to maintain a peaceful relationship with them.
Short and sweet wins the day.
"W, I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of your affair and I am disgusted by your behavior." That's it. No more needs to be said. If she denies just look her straight in the eye and say "we both know that's not true." If she persists just say "I just wanted to tell you that I know, and that's all I have to say about it".
THAT IS ALL. Do it calmly, without anger or hatred or anything in your voice. You're just informing her. DO NOT ENGAGE IN AN R TALK, which is what you're trying to do above.
What AS says
I agree with the example Another Stander gave you. Be sure you face her like a man, and don't tell her through text messages. Remember, this is not about where you failed. This is about her affair. Do not get into a relationship talk, b/c it will weaken the strength of point of confrontation. You want to appear confident, say what Another Stander suggested, and then leave her there alone while you go out for several hours. When you go back home, there is nothing to discuss. WW's can say things the H desperately wants to believe, but they are lies. She can twist the truth and make him feel that everything is his fault. One of the biggest lies is how they don't want a relationship with any man. They just want to find themselves. I think this will be the route your W will take. She'll say she doesn't want to be in a relationship right now, and just wants her own living space, yada.....yada.....yada. It's garbage. Be smart and don't believe anything she says. And....don't believe any tears she sheds. It's no problem for women to turn on tears when they are trying to deceive someone. Just like they can turn on charm when they decide. So, chill and don't get suckered into drama.
She may be cold and go completely silent. That's fine. It won't kill you. The MR is over, at least for now. Your job is to let her go. Don't cling, don't cry, don't try to get her to talk......and don't apologize for anything. This is not the time. She needs to deal with the results of knowing she did not deceive you. Any other discussions at this time will only distract. And trust me when I say that she will twist things and have you thinking the moon is made out of cheese. I think you maintain a little distance, b/c you are vulnerable and too concerned about how she feels. You don't have to act mad or as if you are sulking, but do nothing that appears as if you are trying to "make up" with her. If she turns on tears, don't comfort her. If she asks for a hug, tell her "no". WW's do this b/c they are trying to manipulate......not b/c they are sorry for their actions. Don't try to make everything nice and comfy for her. Don't feel badly for her. Don't cater to her. She has fired you. She has brought this upon herself, so don/'t show affection or tenderness. If you do, then she will think you are a fool for be manipulated by her. This is the time she needs to see you standing strong and confident like a man who can't be fooled by feminine wiles.
Don't mention your pain. She will turn it on you. This is not the time to talk about anything else. The confrontation is not about producing guilt or any other feelings in your WW. Don't mention her parents or her child. The purpose of this confrontation is to tell her you know the truth. It's not about trying to stop her from leaving. In fact, she needs to know you are letting her go. Keep the confrontation short & simple. I think you should leave the house immediately after the confrontation, and let her stay alone for some hours.
These suggestions probably feel very opposite of what you want to do. I have yet to see a newcomer LBH who comes close to thinking like his WW........and that's why I try to give some inkling of the mindset of a WW. Take this a step at a time. The first step is to confront her. Next step is letting her go on her way.
Thanks you all for your advice and guidance...means a lot.
So, I will keep my confrontation to just telling her that she has not deceived me and I know the truth.
She is already talking to lawyers and planning to marry the OM. This is what I heard from her conversation with OM.
Also, I dont think there will be tears or anything as she has already said that she hates me for what I have done in the relationship and has been really cold toward me. Not cooking food for family (just makes her food and for daughter), not talking to me, nothing.
Don't know what will happen, but I will keep you guys posted.
Thanks again to this wonderful family and great support.
You have the heavies posting here. Be wise.
Don´t trust what you´ve heardt. WW minds are monkey fed. Just protect yourself and let her go. She must know that: you are letting her go, she is free. So you are.
Remember no MR talks, believe nothing that they say.
Detach and keep DB. It takes time and patience.
Stay strong there man!
She is already talking to lawyers and planning to marry the OM. This is what I heard from her conversation with OM.
It may happen, and it may not. People have married their AP. For the WW, it's part of her fantasy. Reality has a way of deflating the thrill of sneaking around and having an affair. In the meantime, you get out of her way, and you use the time to focus on you and daughter.
She is already talking to lawyers and planning to marry the OM. This is what I heard from her conversation with OM.
Also, I dont think there will be tears or anything as she has already said that she hates me for what I have done in the relationship and has been really cold toward me. Not cooking food for family (just makes her food and for daughter), not talking to me, nothing.
I actually hope she keeps that way until she's out of the house, just b/c I think it would be a lot more difficult for you if she pulled the other stuff. Be prepared for anything. Don't let down your guard.
((hugs))
Thanks all for your valuable inputs and specially to Sandi for her wisdom and hugs
Wife is still not home yet and it' already 9:40 p.m.
Daughter is sleeping, So plan to do it tomorrow.
One question.
She told me today that she has an interview tomorrow and will be going for interview.
Should I confront before or after the interview.
My heart says that I should do it after, so that her interview does not get screwed up.
Also, she is not moving this weekend, but will be moving out next wednesday.
What you all suggest.?
"My heart says that I should do it after, so that her interview does not get screwed up."
Although considerate... Does it really matter at this point how your WW conducts herself under stress during HER INTERVIEW? Im not saying be punitive. But deliver your message when YOU think it is right for YOU. Not how you think it will make her feel. Clearly her consideration for YOU has gone out the window with the baby and the bath water.
I am with IHC. There is NEVER a right time. There will always be a reason to put it off. Figure out when it works for you and then do it. Her timing is her timing, not yours.
Vik, I am currently going through this struggle as we speak but am slightly ahead of you on the process. Trust nothing, NOTHING of what the W says. Trust Sandi, Steve, AS, IHC, and neffer. These WW follow a very similar script. I was worried how it would make my W feel, etc. They don't care about your feelings at all. She isn't respecting you at all. My W isn't/wasn't respecting mine. Detach. Detach. I was detaching and she temp tested me and I was vulnerable and fell for her words. Her actions soon after contradicted them. Detaching again and it becomes easier each time. You will make mistakes or have bumps in the process. Trust the process.
Tell her you know, if that is what you feel. Then let her do what she needs to do. You can't speed up the process. The people here will tell you it is a marathon not a sprint. You can't snap them out of it. If it doesn't work with this OM, there can be another. Go look at the stories or others, some have had multiple APs.
So just focus on yourself and your D. You will get through this. I read the books suggested from Sandi. It is a really good book (NMMNG). There could be a chance she files, maybe not. My W told me 10 different times that she was "DONE" or I want a D and I am yet to see any paperwork.
Don't let her talk to you about relationship. That was my problem, I let her talk and then I would respond. My new approach just implemented (boundary) is no more talking to me unless it is child related until my conditions are met. I point blankly told her that we have no relationship. We aren't H and W, we aren't friends. We are coparents. She reaches out to me, I just respond back if it is children related. She is looking at apartments. I told her to not ask me for help. Find someone else to discuss because we don't have a relationship.
Be strong, focus on yourself and children. Fix what you need to fix (the W will say everything is your fault). It isn't all your fault. You faults are part of the problem but don't assume all the burden of what has happened. Don't worry if she will walk away. You can't control what she does. As my BIL says, the only person in life that you are stuck with for certainty is yourself. Work on yourself. Be a man a fool would want to leave.
Hi Guys,
So the confrontation happened today morning.
I asked her to sit across the dining table and told her that i am aware of the affair and this for me is disrespectful and disgraceful. Everytime I asked you, you denied.
She said what do you want from me?
I said is affair justified in any situation?
She said I can't answer that. and affair is not the reason for her leaving.
Then started to talk about last two years and how difficult her life was and kept going on my ignoring her and not being available for her loneliness.
After listening for 2 minutes, I told her that I don't want to talk about relationship and I believe what she had done was disgraceful.
I then said for our daughter I will be civil and we will coparent, other than that we done here and then I left.
All through confrontation, I saw no remorse and looked like she had relief that is it out.
Then when I left, she messaged me after 10 minutes that I should decide on the days I want our daughter to be with me.
She mentioned that she is setting up for her in her new apartment and it will be good that she gets used to being alone with me and sleeping when its just me and her.
Any feedback.?
Sounds like more relief, selfishness, and impunity from the WW. SHE WANTS YOU to take on more of the parental abilities. WAW'S and WW want you to feel what they were feeling by projecting their previous experiences onto you. Just make sure that is what YOU want and what works for you. More time with the kids. If WW is acting irresponsible, Definately make her share the 50/50 custody/ child rearing load. You need to fight for your kids like there is no tomorrow. It is not your job any longer to satisfy someone else's happiness or loneliness. Only yours. Put yourself, and to yourr kids first. Cut them loose, and focus on you, because no one else is.
IHCLACS,
She has mentioned already that she wants us to have 50/50 custody of our daughter. So there i guess we don't have a disagreement
But I was completely heartbroken to see no remorse or no emotion on her face. It just was so painful.
I see now she has left home and went to home depot to buy stuff for her apartment. (How can these WWs be so heartless).
Any idea on what I should be expecting in coming 5 days that we will be in the same apartment and how should I conduct myself?
and affair is not the reason for her leaving.
Then started to talk about last two years and how difficult her life was and kept going on my ignoring her and not being available for her loneliness.
Right, exactly what we told you she would do.
After listening for 2 minutes
That was 2 minutes too long.
But I was completely heartbroken to see no remorse or no emotion on her face. It just was so painful.
So despite everything we said, you still went in with expectations. You expected remorse, sadness, maybe a sobbing breakdown where she admits her wrongdoing and swears her life to you if only you'll give her another chance. You watch too many movies! Look I know this hurts, but she is behaving according to script. This is how she feels right now and will for quite some time. LISTEN TO US! She can and will feel differently at some point in the future, but not right now. THIS IS WHY WE SAY GET OUT, GAL, leave her ALONE. Because there is NOTHING you can do right now that will help, but lots you can do that will make things worse.
I see now she has left home and went to home depot to buy stuff for her apartment. (How can these WWs be so heartless).
She has feelings, she feels guilt and remorse even though she doesn't show it. But she also feels JUSTIFIED. She feels she MUST do this to escape a horrible (in her foggy mind) marriage.
Any idea on what I should be expecting in coming 5 days that we will be in the same apartment and how should I conduct myself?
Be as scarce as possible. Go as dark as you can. Keep contact to a minimum.
Vik, when I confronted my EXTREMELY PIOUS and RELIGIOUS W about her sending nude photos to another man, her response was very similar. At one point she even said, emotionless, "that must have been awful for you". She said it as if she were telling a story.
WWs do not care about us. There attitude is "you hurt me for so long I no longer care if I hurt you". It hurts. It [censored]. But that is the way it is.
Do what AS says. The only thing you discuss with her is logistics around your daughter. Period. If she starts wanting to get into other things you are busy, or can't talk, or can't text right now.
You see, she has to feel like you are taking control of YOUR life back. Until now she has felt in control. Most WWs have a bit of a wake up once they feel that loss of control. Including that some times she may even try to seduce you. Some WWs want to maintain control so much that they will attempt that.
The rule? If she is in an active affair DO NOT GIVE IN. You have to protect your physical health here. Be strong. Be firm. Be resolute.
My WW said the same BS. "I have no future with OM, OM is not the reason I want a D, its your fault, blah blah blah blah blah.
Drop the rope. I told my WW that I am done. It took her nine months to finally get the D paperwork together and to file and now I think she is messing with the case because she doesnt want to pay me child support.
I honestly believe that my WW thought I was just going to stick around sucking on my thumb and pining for her while she did whatever she wanted to do. I ended up meeting a nice younger woman six months after BD and I have never been happier and never looked back.
Now I am planning MY life. Planning to move out so I can be happy and make decisions that make me happy. WW is still with her much older long distance, married OM. I simply do not care anymore. If she truly has no future with him then she sure is wasting a huge portion of her life. Thats for her to deal with now. No my monkey.
Now that you had the talk, just focus on yourself. No more snooping, no more pursuit, no more asking questions etc. Just be you and do you.
Thanks a lot guys for your support.
Well, after today, I felt that the hope for saving my marriage is very low. It feels like nothing will change her heart.
She mentioned how lonely she felt during last two years and that si why she is leaving me and it has nothing to do with affair.
I just can't take the thought out of my mind that she felt no remorse for cheating on me. She feels nothing strange or no guilt about giving her daughter a broken home.
I don't feel like dating at this point in time and feel that it will be morally incorrect for me to do so till we get divorced.
I so want to save my marriage and feel so helpless.
I will work on myself and try to GAL and make myself happy, but when I think of my daughter, I just feel anger towards my ww and helplessness about not being able to do anything to stop the destruction that I can clearly see.
I so want to sense prevail in my WW and she will make the right choices.
I don't want my wife to think that I am done with her and later if she would like to come back, she should not think that she can't because I closed all the doors.(Though i don't want to give a signal that I will be waiting forever).
She seems so emotionally detached that i feel that she is someone I don't know at all and don't want to be in love also.
Please pray for me and guide me towards saving my marriage.
Thanks again for all your support.
Vik,
I don't know your timezone, but hopefully, you are in bed, sleeping and recharging your mental tanks - because, you really need to.
I am just gonna be straight with you here:
1. You want to save your marriage. You STBXW absolutely has no desire to do such thing. So you are hanging on with rose tinted glasses to a foundation that is absolutely not able to carry you into the future - DONT let it, because if you do, it will destroy you.
Create a new foundation, with or without her, but a foundation build upon your values, and with a partner whom respects you and desires you in their life. That is a strong foundation.
Am I telling you to give up? Absolutely yes. You wont heal, you wont move on, you wont be coming from a place of strength as long as you keep up like this.
I am sorry, but you are most likely coming off as really weak, and your actions will without a doubt, be seen as pursuit by her. Women are emotional and feeling beings (sorry for the stereotyping here for the female users), and see WILL see right through any half hearted attempts you make in order for her to see why she should choose her marriage. Your marriage is over. Its just that simple, sorry.
You are spinning like crazy, and its so hard not to, I have my self, for many months, and I will NEVER get this time back. Time where, even though I want to think it panned out otherwise, I just wasn't fully there for my daughter and my son, because I was too invested in coming from a weak place and using my resources on trying to show and act like, I could change my WWs mind. Fact is, you CANT, I CANT, nobody CAN. It is them, that need to undergo a journey, they need to face their new reality, live it, and maybe they will realize that they gave up on something beautiful - trust me, you will know if she regrets what she has done, maybe she wont.
Should you wait around for her to have that epiphany? Please, I hope you know the answer to that rhetorical question my friend. You have one life. It smacked you in the face, hard - Dont let it continue to. Get out of bed, and start living your new life. A life where the people that matters are you and your daughter. Form that new life, one day at a time, and you will see, that you will soon find yourself to be independant and on a course, set by you and your desires - not the mutual path, that you followed when you were (you still are, sorry) attached to a future with your ex wife.
I am sending you lots of hugs my friend. This is hard - but very necessary in order for you to heal and live a fulfilling life. You only get one.
Vik,
Sorry to hear you are feeling the way you do right now. Be patient and kind to yourself and I hope you research or find ways to let go of the stress we all feel in this most troubling time. I hope someone says something that will click with you to steer you down the path of redemption. I remember that feeling all too well. You want to save the marriage because it's the right thing to do, for the kids, and because we're just a little bit selfish and it's just what we want. Sometimes we have to let go those things we want the most and it hurts. You could be doing all the right things in your mind to hold on to what is most precious to you and they still have the choice and free will to do whatever the hell they want to do with little to no regard for anyone's feelings. That is life. Life is bittersweet. It's also full of surprises and excitement and joy. I hope you will shift some of that focus off your W for the moment. Put it wherever you want except the marriage or your W. I hope you find happiness in other things. There are a million and more reasons to be alive. Your W was 1 of them. Your daughter is 1 of them. What you bring to others in your life is many more. You want your W to feel something? You move on.
Have you come across posts talking about the WAS and their journey they are on or seen the one about being numb in R2Cs quotes thread? There are other posts that have helped to humble me when looking at the break down of the M. It took my focus off my W and put it back on me, trying to work on me and taking accountability for my own actions. Once I stopped focusing on W, I stopped blaming her. I stopped wanting her to know how I felt. I took the lonely road. If you can walk the road alone to happiness you can find it with others. What I did was listen to a bunch of videos which I still do today after 8 months from BD. Steve mentions self differentiation a lot and I came across much of that discussion online. Being happy alone. John Gottman is wonderful to listen to. There are many positive, helpful things you can do now to put you on the right track.
Vik, this is all too fresh and new. I encourage you to keep learning as much as you can as quickly as you can so you can save yourself some time and minimize the damage. The quicker you learn, the quicker you can let go, and you slowly realize it is no longer about them but about you.
^^^Really great advise from Hurt and Adam^^^
Well, after today, I felt that the hope for saving my marriage is very low. It feels like nothing will change her heart.
Oh her heart will absolutely change. Just probably not on your timeline. A friend of mine's W went rogue and ditched him. They sold their business and house and she moved in with OM. They didn't speak for 2 years. Then she started pinging him, and then they started having coffee together, then going out and now they are back together and happier than ever. It happens. It's 7 years past BD for me and my XW has only in the last year started showing shade of her old self. When we tell people it's a marathon, that is NO JOKE.
She mentioned how lonely she felt during last two years and that si why she is leaving me and it has nothing to do with affair.
I just can't take the thought out of my mind that she felt no remorse for cheating on me.
And how much remorse do you feel for abandoning her the last two years? YOU cheated on HER with (fill in the blank- video games, work, poker nights with buddies, TV addiction, alcohol, etc.) See this is what happens with LBS's, they get so wrapped up in their own pain and misery that it makes it impossible for them to see their WAS as anything other than a cold, uncaring, evil monster. But she was hurting quite badly, enough that she felt desperate to escape the M. And an A was her means of escape, a promise of something better. You want to make this all about you, but it's more about her than it is you.
I so want to sense prevail in my WW and she will make the right choices.
First you have to make yourself the "right choice". Because right now, you're not. Needy, desperate, sad LBS's are not attractive at all. So get about the long, difficult process of making yourself strong, independent, self-sufficient for all things physical and emotional.
I don't want my wife to think that I am done with her
Oh but you do. Because she will not even think about coming back as long as she knows you are Plan B. It is a paradox. These lines from the movie Swingers help explain it:
MIKE
And what if I don't want to give up on her?
ROB
You don't call.
MIKE
But you said I shouldn't call if I wanted to give up on her.
ROB
Right.
MIKE
So I don't call either way.
ROB
Right.
MIKE
So what's the difference?
ROB
The only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. See, you can't do anything to make her want to come back. You can only do things to make her not want to come back.
MIKE
So the only difference is if I forget about her or pretend to forget about her.
ROB
Right.
MIKE
Well that [censored].
ROB
It [censored].
MIKE
So it's almost a retroactive decision. So I could, like, let's say, forget about her and when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her.
ROB
Right...or more likely the opposite.
MIKE
Right... Wait, what do you mean?
ROB
I mean first you'll pretend not to care, not call - whatever, and then, eventually, you really won't care.
MIKE
Unless she comes back first.
ROB
Ah, see, that's the thing. Somehow they don't come back until you really don't care anymore.
MIKE
There's the rub.
ROB
There's the rub.
Thanks Adam, Hurt and AnotherStander for your perspectives and it helps look at things differently.
Oh her heart will absolutely change. Just probably not on your timeline. A friend of mine's W went rogue and ditched him. They sold their business and house and she moved in with OM. They didn't speak for 2 years. Then she started pinging him, and then they started having coffee together, then going out and now they are back together and happier than ever. It happens. It's 7 years past BD for me and my XW has only in the last year started showing shade of her old self. When we tell people it's a marathon, that is NO JOKE.
I agree that it is going to be a marathon and I hope that god gives me strength to keep running and be optimistic.
And how much remorse do you feel for abandoning her the last two years? YOU cheated on HER with (fill in the blank- video games, work, poker nights with buddies, TV addiction, alcohol, etc.) See this is what happens with LBS's, they get so wrapped up in their own pain and misery that it makes it impossible for them to see their WAS as anything other than a cold, uncaring, evil monster. But she was hurting quite badly, enough that she felt desperate to escape the M. And an A was her means of escape, a promise of something better. You want to make this all about you, but it's more about her than it is you.
I have remorse and I understand and accept my responsibility, but I still am of the opinion that if she would have said that i want to separate and maybe get divorced becuase I am not happy, I would have respect for her and would have accepted this better than what I feel today. Affair was not and is not a solution and this choice destroys more.
Oh but you do. Because she will not even think about coming back as long as she knows you are Plan B. It is a paradox. These lines from the movie Swingers help explain it:
How do I ensure that she feels that I am not cold towards her and our communication improves, still ensuring that I don't look desperate.
Also, after my confronting her yesterday, I was out the whole day and came back home around 11 after spending some good time with some friends.
In the morning, my daughter wakes up and my wife knocks at my bedroom ( we sleep in different bedrooms since DDay 01/19) and asks me to take her to daycare. I replied that as I have off today, i will stay with our D and spend time with her.
She said ok and then went to take a bath and left in half hour. I know she will be going to OMs place.
I felt helpless and like a doormat as I knew and she also knew that I am aware that she is going to OMs place and I couldn't say anything. She is moving out on Wednesday, so I am not sure if I can set any boundaries.
Is there anything I can do during these 5 days that conveys that I am strong and will not be run over. Self esteem took a big hit today.
Be scarce. You will be able to detach a lot better once she moves out.
Like everyone is saying, you need to let her go. It is extremely counterintuitive. You will want to talk and want to pursue and will want to apologize and want to save your M.
The reality is that you cannot save your M. There is absolutely nothing you can do to make her change her mind. The only thing you can do is get to the point where you are no longer emotionally attached to her. At that point you will be solely focused on yourself and on moving forward in life.
You have to get to the point where you would literaly be surprised that she made changes and started pursuing you. If she ever changes in the future and wants to come back, it would be at a point where you arent even paying attention.
Just be you, do you and do what makes you happy. Keep up your morals and values. Just remember, that when you are still married, one person holding the vows while the other person threw them in the trash doesnt make a marriage work and doesnt keep your marriage together.
Yes, I met another woman and I allowed myself to do what I feel is right, which is to get involved with her. My WW knows about her yes. I actually was not planning on getting into another R. I just met this woman and it felt right and I get along with her very well. That and this woman has shown me what its like to be around a woman that isnt judgemental or critical of me.
My situation only varies slightly wherein my WW has always mistreated me in some form or another and I was just content with it. Once I took a step back I realize that I deserve much better and that she hasn't ever treated me like I should have been treated, so D is ok for me. My WW would have to make some extreme changes in her behavior. She never showed remorse for what she did. I got a few crocodile tears and "sorry's" from her and thats about it.
Just keep BD. Keep detaching. You will notice when you are detached because you will feel nothing when she is around. You won't be thinking about her all the time. You will have stepped off of the emotional roller coaster. You will be fine. You will be happy and content and will have direction.
Stop beating yourself up about the past. The past is the past. You cannot change the past. You can only focus on the future. So start setting yourself some goals both short term and long term and focus on those. Focus on being the best version of yourself possible. Get in the best shape you have ever been in and kick the sh*t out of life. Thats what I am doing.
Vik, you are getting a lot of good advices here. Just focus on yourself and D. Free yourself so as to regain your own power. Get you own respect back.
Stand strong there man. Keep DB. Stick to the rules. You need to go dark, detach and GAL.
Respect!
I just can't take the thought out of my mind that she felt no remorse for cheating on me.
You set yourself up for disappointment. In spite of what you were told, you still believed the confrontation would evoke remorseful feelings. She's packing up and buying new things for her new life as a single woman. She's not going to feel remorse for some time.
I don't want my wife to think that I am done with her and later if she would like to come back, she should not think that she can't because I closed all the doors.(Though i don't want to give a signal that I will be waiting forever).
You have no idea about the mindset of a WW. I have observed a lot of wayward cases. The H's who practiced what you said in the above quote, couldn't move on b/c they left that old door open. You see, as long as you want her to know you are keeping the door open........your emotions are standing in the doorway with your neck stretched watching to see if there is any movement from her. It does not work in getting her back. In fact, the opposite actions and attitude is much more likely to send the message that she has just put a good man on the market for other women to gobble up. No, I'm not saying you should jump into the dating arena. I'm just saying to let her go. You can still love her, but do it from a distance. She doesn't need to know you carry a torch. The WW is so full of herself that she doesn't really consider completely
losing her H. Even if she files for D, she sees him in the background, always there waiting for her just in case she needs him to do something for her. She sees him as being her pal, her old buddy, her errand boy, or whatever. Lots of H's go along with it, thinking she'll eventually change her mind when she sees how loyal he's been. Well, guess what? This does not work with Waywards. So, forget that type of thinking, b/c you are dealing with a different animal.
For many WW's, it is a shock to discover her LBH would actually have the b@lls to dump
her. I'm not saying he has to run out and file for a D. He simply drops the emotional rope he has tied to her. He doesn't have to make pronouncements about it. She'll know when he lets go.
She seems so emotionally detached that i feel that she is someone I don't know at all and don't want to be in love also.
You can't imagine just how much she is detached.
Thanks Guys for your words.
@ Sandi,
What about the remaining days before she moves out.?
Can i set any boundaries? Now that she knows that I know of the affair and she still went ahead and left in the morning for OMs place. Felt like a doormat who couldnt do anything about it.
Any advice on that?
Is there anything I can do during these 5 days that conveys that I am strong and will not be run over. Self esteem took a big hit today.
That's like asking what you can do in the first 5 steps to make the marathon different. I think you are reading the comments, but not understanding them.
"See, you can't do anything to make her want to come back. You can only do things to make her not want to come back."
V,
What boundaries are you gonna set and what are the consequences when she breaks them?
That is what i am confused about.
Five days left but I just wanted to give a message that she can't just do anything till the time she is living here, even if it is five days. I just dont want to feel doormat.
Being a doormat would be if you were catering to her every request. Believe me we have some LBS that do that here.
Stand strong with class.
That is what i am confused about.
Five days left but I just wanted to give a message that she can't just do anything till the time she is living here, even if it is five days. I just dont want to feel doormat.
Be as scarce as possible. Go as dark as you can. Keep contact to a minimum. You can't control her, so don't try.
V,
What is your co-parental schedule like ? Who is "in charge" of your child for the coming five days?
The recipe is quite simple, because I am going to advice you to do the exact same thing in both cases.
Case 1: According to the schedule it is your time with your kid: You get out and do something fun with your kid - go to the beach and build a sandcastle, go to the forest and look for trolls and goblins, or find a hidden treasure. Go to the library, go visit family or set up playdates. <--- Go OUT and live life and get some great experiences with your kid.
Case 2: Your STBXW has your kid according to your schedule: Well... GO OUT... Play golf, visit friends, visit family, hit the gym, go for a long walk, go to a concert, go to the cinema....
Will you want to? most likely not.. You want to stay at home, so you can use these 5 days wisely, and logic tells you that wisely is to be there for your wife, so she can see that you are really trying, and that you are a good husband.... its pursuit, and wont work. Let her fly.
In case you missed my 2x4.... GET THE HECK OUT OF THAT HOUSE, it is sucking you dry, and you need to get up and get out, no matter how tired you are / not feeling like going out...
These 5 last days are meaningless in the bigger picture.... Do not think anything will change between you, because thats on a whole other time scale.....
Hurt,
At this point we don't have a schedule.
It will be in place starting wednesday next week, when she moves out.
Well, she has proposed that our D will be with her Sunday morning to Thursday morning and then with me from Thursday evening to Sunday morning.
That would mean that my friday and saturday will be with my daughter and I would love to do that, but that will also mean that I lose main days when my friends go out to bars and golfing (which in Friday and Saturday).
She chose such a plan because her OMs (Who is also divorced) daughter is with him on Sundays and she wanted to have Saturdays available to her so that she could be with him on Saturdays.
I want to tell her to swap and let me have my daughter from Sunday morning to Wednesday morning.
I am sure she will not agree.
Any suggestions on how I should approach the conversation and how should I put my point across.
I want to tell her that I am joining some classes that will be on Saturday and will not be possible for me to have D on Saturdays. She will reach badly. Not sure what to say and how to react.
Thanks for your inputs in advance.
Do something like this:
Mon-Tuesday you
Wednesday-Thursday her
Alternate every Friday- Sunday
Claps hard
Do something like this:
Mon-Tuesday you
Wednesday-Thursday her
Alternate every Friday- Sunday
Five days left but I just wanted to give a message that she can't just do anything till the time she is living here, even if it is five days. I just dont want to feel doormat.
What are you going to say?
I don't think this is so much about you feeling like a doormat as it is you feeling desperate to control her. You aren't going to change her decision in five days by trying to lay down some sort of boundary lines. For one thing, what would you do if she didn't honor your boundary?
What are you going to say?
I don't think this is so much about you feeling like a doormat as it is you feeling desperate to control her. You aren't going to change her decision in five days by trying to lay down some sort of boundary lines. For one thing, what would you do if she didn't honor your boundary?
I agree...Not much can be achieved and if I set one, and if she breaks it, it will be more devastating to my self esteem.
So, I will just keep doing my thing and spend quality time with my D.
Also, today, she messaged me in the morning around 7 am that she was leaving to buy stuff for her new apartment and then will be assembling them and will come home late in the night (which according to her would be around 11 pm).
I didn't message back anything.
Later today, she calls me and says that her apartment has been flooded and she will need all the towels to clean it till the maintenance guys come which will be late in the evening.
I DON"T KNOW WHY WHY WHY, but I ended up saying "Don't panic and if you will like I can help you out as she can't hide her new address as my daughter will be living there and I have right to know". To which she said "I will let you know the new address and I wasn't going to hide that. Also, I don't need your help, please keep the towels outside the house, so she can pick them up. Two minutes later, calls me again and says "Let it be, I will by new ones as the ones at home will not be enough".
I know I should not have said that, but ended up (instinct or fixer attitude. So want to get rid of it and let her feel the heat and reality.
Just wanted to share with you guys and get advice on what to say when something like this happens again.
Do something like this:
Mon-Tuesday you
Wednesday-Thursday her
Alternate every Friday- Sunday
I will toss this idea, though I messaged her that I have classes on Saturday, so I would like to have the following arrangement " Sunday Morning - Wednesday Morning - Me
Wednesday Evening to Sunday Morning - Her
She said that she will think and let me know by today evening or tomorrow afternoon.
Well you recognized your own pursuit behaviour, good job.
Dont feel down about it - move forward and let it be in the past.
You asked for advice, I am gonna be blunt:
1. Did she ask you anything related to your kid or mutual financials? Not really, so LEAVE her alone.!
Her response is thick with that exact underlying message...
2. If you feel like validating (which I wouldnt here), then something like “Oh, I understand How that must be very frustrating.. I am sure you will figure something out”.
Drop the rope.....
Thanks Hurt.
Will try and just leave her alone and not bother myself or her.
About finances, the situation is as follows:
She was paying for our Ds daycare expenses and her car lease. Rest all the house expenses like rent and everything else (insurance, food, all the house bills, phone bills were coming from my salary.
When she told me that she will be separating and I was not aware of the affair and AP, I said ok, when you move out, we will distribute the daycare and education fund contribution according to our income ratios (mine was 60% and her came out to be 40%).
In feb she told me that her office ppl had reduced her hours and she would want me to pay my Ds daycare also till the situation gets better and she will pay me back later, to which I agreed. I also contribute towards my Ds education fund.
Later in March she lost the job completely and has no income for last month and half.
Irony is knowing that she did not have a job, she went ahead and took the apartment on rent (she has some savings available for her to last 6-8 months).
I feel like telling her that moving out was her decision and if she can afford the rent without a job and can take such reckless decision, then she should honor the commitment to sare Ds expenses as well.
But on the contrary, I don't want to be vindictive and if I do so, my daughter suffers and I don't want her to suffer because of any conflict between me and my wife.
Not sure what would be the best approach here.
Too bad so sad! She pays her 40%.
Vik,
She has made her decisions/choices, you are over thinking every decision you make in regards to your WW. I know/We know because we have been where you are. Slow down and stop making the decision that you think will benefit/make your WW less upset, and make the best, most logical decision. Stop deciding with her emotions and reactions in mind.
She decided to accept an apartment with her employment status up in the air. She knew the possible consequences making a choice like that. What would she do if Vik wasn't in the picture to deal with day-care? She would figure it out. Pay your fair share and let her live her life. Let her deal with the ups and the downs, the good and the bad on her end.
She calls you when things are going bad, does she call you when she is having the best days, I bet not. Stop saving her, and let her swim in the ocean she decided to dive into.
Keep moving forward
I agree with what has been said here. She pays her share. Also...regarding childcare schedule...alternating weekends with various schedules during the week is the norm. There is no ways she should expect you to give up every weekend. Stand firm on that. Just cause she says she wants something, doesn’t mean you should just agree. My STBXH and I have agreed to a 2-3-2 schedule Parent 1- M-T, Parent 2 - W-Fri, Parent 1 - S-S... alternating weekly.
VIK... I know where you are at. I was there too. Trust me... things will get better as soon as you drop the rope. I never thought I would feel the way I do. Didn’t want to. I wanted my H back. I do not feel that way anymore and I am happier now than I was before BD. Trust in the process. Trust that you will be okay. Face your fears. That was the biggest thing for me... I had a lot of fears... of being alone, of no one wanting me again, financial stress, you name it... I have discovered none of those things are insurmountable and that my life is going to be what I make of it. And that part about no one wanting me again... LOL... so not the case. My dance card is full and I am loving my freedom to just live my life. You will get there too and be a better person for it. (((HUGS)))
She decided to accept an apartment with her employment status up in the air. She knew the possible consequences making a choice like that. What would she do if Vik wasn't in the picture to deal with day-care? She would figure it out. Pay your fair share and let her live her life. Let her deal with the ups and the downs, the good and the bad on her end.
She calls you when things are going bad, does she call you when she is having the best days, I bet not. Stop saving her, and let her swim in the ocean she decided to dive into.
Keep moving forward
Well, If I do not do that, the AP will do it and bail her out. That is just a thought.
Also, if it affects my daughter, then it becomes a problem and I really don't want that she takes my daughter out of daycare because of the fund crunch, because at the end, it affects my daughter.
Need a quick suggestion PLEASE.
Imp. Point - Wife moving to a new apartment on Wednesday.
Wife's parents called me that they are coming on Wednesday for 3-4 months. Should I ask them to hold on or ask them to come.
Point is that my wife does not have a great relationship with her parents, but they told me that they are coming to put some sense in her. Actually she used to talk to them almost everyday before the BD, but has resentment against them because of childhood neglect etc..She has vilified them as well for her situation in life and told her parents also that they were not good parents and they are also responsible for her low self esteem...Effects of AFFAIR
If they come, they will be staying with her in her apartment. Them being here would mean her plans to stay at OMs place will be shattered as she will not have possibility of staying out at nights becuase of her parents being here.
Also, I think them being here would mean she may get emotional support (though they stand for our marriage) and help with our daughter as well.So, it may not make her feel the impact of being separated and handling the kid by her own for half a week. (According to her they are not aware of the affair, but in actual they are)
Also, how can i tell her that she should not expose our D to OM as she is too young to be confused about having another man in her life apart from her father. What boundary can I set other than taking legal action?
What do you guys think is the best thing to happen here.
Would appreciate quick reply as they are booking the tickets and they have to travel from another country.
Sorry for short notice, but please help me with this.
Another question, how should I tell my wife that she should start sharing the daycare expenses and education saving expenses for my daughter?
She is currently out of job and has told me to pay those till she gets a job and she will pay me back her share.
So, do I wait for her to get a job or should I tell her to pay those expenses when she moves out on Wednesday (paying is not an issue as it doesn't dent my savings or earnings), but I don't want to look vindictive or punishing her as she is moving out.
If I have to say that she should start paying without being mean, what should I be saying exactly.
Thanks a lot for all your support guys
Vik, there's a lot going on here. I'll start with the parents.
I'd say the best thing for you to do is NOT MEDDLE with their relationship. If her parents come to see her that is between her and them. If they ask you anything about your relationship you kindly and firmly say to them, "Thank you for your concern. I appreciate you wanting to help, but I think right now it is best for me that I keep some of the details between W and I private. I hope you understand".
Stick to that. Do not draw them in. Do not pretend they are your allies, and do not treat them as the enemy. You may need to be a broken record and repeat your stance.
If W asks you to relay messages to her parents take a similar stance. "W, I understand your parents being here is a stress to you. I think the best thing I can do is step back and allow you to manage your relationship with them. I don't wish to be in the middle".
Regarding childcare and exposing your child to OW - these will require conversations with W and I'm not caught up on your sitch enough to know how to best advise. When in doubt - do nothing and step back.
Vik,
To your above post.
It's simple,.get out your WW way. Everything you just brought up for concerns are none of your business.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but your W introducing your D to another man is her business, your only concern should be if he harms her or is a danger to her.
Your whole post above was about trying to control her. Stop trying to control this situation and let go.
If you try to involve yourself anyway in this situation with her parents, this other man, telling her about how to make her payments, it will only push her further away and make her resent you more.
You are too worried about her.
Once again, let her go. Work on yourself. The statement that Yail Gave you above will work. Stay out of the way, please!!!!! You can't fix your WW or this sitch. You can't fix your WW or this sitch. You can't fix your WW or this sitch.
You can't control your WW or this sitch.
Onward and upward
No, I don't like it.
This is what you should do
Sun-Tuesday Morning - D is with me
Tue - Friday morning - D will be with my wife
Friday - Sunday Morning - With me one week, wife the next, alternating.
The other way is too complicated, too much switching, and not sustainable as there will invariably be Friday nights you have something to do, and Saturday nights she'll have something to do. Why split the weekend in two rather than just doing alternating weekends?
You control what you can control: yourself.
Keep DB, get your respect back.
Read again Sandi´s rules. Read them every day. Time to get on your own, relax, take your time and
start getting into amoafwl. Detach, GAL, keep contact with W only for your kid.Read about going dark/dim.
Stay strong. Keep reading and posting here.
You have the strength.
Hi Guys,
Update....
Had asked wife to talk about our Ds staying arrangements and her routine during stay at each place (my wife is moving out on Wednesday i.e tomorrow).
She asked if we could meet at a restaurant near our house during lunch hours, to which I agreed. (not sure why she chose to meet outside, even though she has no job these days and was home only, and the restaurant is 5 minutes away from our house)
So we talked about the days she will spend at each place and here is the arrangement:
Sun-Tuesday Morning - D is with me
Tue - Friday morning - D will be with my wife
Friday - Saturday morning - D will be with me
Saturday Morning - Sunday Morning - With wife
We talked about her eating routine and other stuff to keep it same in both houses.
Also, for finance, we agreed that on 1st of each month, I will deposit in her account my share of the daycare+education saving expense for our D. She gave me the cards that she had from our joint accounts.
We file taxes jointly and this year we owed money because her withheld taxes were very less and she asked me to tell her how much she owes and she will pay me that.
Also, I asked her to make sure that she leaves by tomorrow unless there are logistic issues because I couldn't live in an open marriage (Although the delay would have been a day or two, this was just to emphasize that she was not leaving on her terms but I wanted her to leave as well. I know it was not the best thing to do, but I wanted peace and send a message that its not just her that wants to leave, but I have no interest if she is going to be with another man).
Her face was blank as she did not expect it. May resent me but I was so upset in my heart about my D suffering that i had to say it.
Don't know what the repercussions will be.
Would like to have your feedback please and how to conduct myself in coming days.
Also, when she is leaving tomorrow, should I say something or not? If yes, then what should I say?
P.S - Her parents called me yesterday and told me that her mother will be arriving on 26th and they haven't told her.
What should I do? Should I tell her or not?
You got the schedule in order - Good job, now you have a formal agreement, make sure that is in writing, you will want that.
Finances are sorted, it seems - Good job. Now you don't have to worry about that, make sure that is in writing, you will want that.
You asking her to leave because of bla bla bla is simply you wanting an reaction, and that was not really helping you. Think what you want, but keep it in your head - be a man only a fool would leave, not a man filled with resentment, anger and hatred, thats not attractive.
I am going to say this once, and then leave it be - Stay the heck out of secret agendas with HER side of the family. In time, and most likely already, they will choose their daughters side, no matter what she does, and you will be on the end of the blaming stick....
Tell them that you are not comfortable discussing your private affairs with their daughter at this point in time, and that you would appreciate if they did not reach out with these intentions. You want an absolutely transparent communication with them, because your wife will feel absolutely blind-sided, and guess who will be blamed.
I am not saying to avoid them, they are the grandparents of your daughter. Keep it at that, but your private business with their daughter needs to be your private business for now. It will bite you in the behind if you become part of whatever mess is stirring up.
Vik,
That statement about you wanting her to leave, was once again you wanting to control the situation. "You had to say something", Trust me, no you didn't! You have some work to do. You want convince us on here that was a good thing to do. It was immature and weak. You probably looked very unattractive and weak to your wife, because it sounds very weak to me.
You won't be able to control your W. I wrote that to you yesterday. Let her be, you trying to get revenge will not do anything to help your situation. Do what's attractive and what works.
Stay out the way of your WW and her family. Stay out way of your WW and her family. If you get in the way and things go sour, but sides will just find ways to blame you. What happen between them is non of your business. Also, if you tell your WW that her parents are coming, she's going to think you put them up to doing this. She will blame you for them coming and trying to fix her. I promise you, it won't be nothing you can say to convince her otherwise.
But, if you stay out the way and if she comes to you and say, did you know my parents were coming and you say yes. And she ask, "why didn't you tell me?" You can say, "I didn't tell you because, what happen between you and your parents, is none on my business". That statement let her know, you aren't getting out of her way.
Get out of her way and let her live her life without you in it. She must view you as a loss.
I know you want your family and W back. But your intervention want be the reason she returns, her seeing a confident man, that has made changes and moving forward with his life, is the biggest chance you have of getting her back.
It have worked time and time again. But what hasn't work since I have been here is when I read about a LBS trying to control their spouses, it always ends badly.
Hi Guys,
Update....
Had asked wife to talk about our Ds staying arrangements and her routine during stay at each place (my wife is moving out on Wednesday i.e tomorrow).
She asked if we could meet at a restaurant near our house during lunch hours, to which I agreed. (not sure why she chose to meet outside, even though she has no job these days and was home only, and the restaurant is 5 minutes away from our house)
So we talked about the days she will spend at each place and here is the arrangement:
Sun-Tuesday Morning - D is with me
Tue - Friday morning - D will be with my wife
Friday - Saturday morning - D will be with me
Saturday Morning - Sunday Morning - With wife
We talked about her eating routine and other stuff to keep it same in both houses.
Also, for finance, we agreed that on 1st of each month, I will deposit in her account my share of the daycare+education saving expense for our D. She gave me the cards that she had from our joint accounts.
We file taxes jointly and this year we owed money because her withheld taxes were very less and she asked me to tell her how much she owes and she will pay me that.
Also, I asked her to make sure that she leaves by tomorrow unless there are logistic issues because I couldn't live in an open marriage (Although the delay would have been a day or two, this was just to emphasize that she was not leaving on her terms but I wanted her to leave as well. I know it was not the best thing to do, but I wanted peace and send a message that its not just her that wants to leave, but I have no interest if she is going to be with another man).
Her face was blank as she did not expect it. May resent me but I was so upset in my heart about my D suffering that i had to say it.
Don't know what the repercussions will be.
Would like to have your feedback please and how to conduct myself in coming days.
Also, when she is leaving tomorrow, should I say something or not? If yes, then what should I say?
P.S - Her parents called me yesterday and told me that her mother will be arriving on 26th and they haven't told her.
What should I do? Should I tell her or not?
Not sure what happened. but I do not like your schedule. It is too much switching for your D. And there will be Friday nights you need to do something and Saturday night she will. How about this:
Sun-Tuesday Morning - D is with me
Tue - Friday morning - D will be with my wife
Friday - Sunday Morning - With wife one week, me the next, alternating.
I think that is much better arrangement. Not sure why you guys would try to split the weekend like that.
P.S - Her parents called me yesterday and told me that her mother will be arriving on 26th and they haven't told her.
What should I do? Should I tell her or not?
Call her parents and tell them they need to contact her with their plans.
That statement about you wanting her to leave, was once again you wanting to control the situation. "You had to say something", Trust me, no you didn't! You have some work to do. You want convince us on here that was a good thing to do. It was immature and weak. You probably looked very unattractive and weak to your wife, because it sounds very weak to me.
Ai agree, I should not have said that. It backfired.She just messaged me that she will move out positively by tomorrow. She said her staying here was not right. Won't say anything out of emotions going forward. Anything I say say for a comeback on this one?
Stay out the way of your WW and her family. Stay out way of your WW and her family. If you get in the way and things go sour, but sides will just find ways to blame you. What happen between them is non of your business. Also, if you tell your WW that her parents are coming, she's going to think you put them up to doing this. She will blame you for them coming and trying to fix her. I promise you, it won't be nothing you can say to convince her otherwise.
But, if you stay out the way and if she comes to you and say, did you know my parents were coming and you say yes. And she ask, "why didn't you tell me?" You can say, "I didn't tell you because, what happen between you and your parents, is none on my business". That statement let her know, you aren't getting out of her way.
Will stay out of their business .
Vik,
"Ai agree, I should not have said that. It backfired.She just messaged me that she will move out positively by tomorrow. She said her staying here was not right. Won't say anything out of emotions going forward. Anything I say say for a comeback on this one?"
Duuuuuuuuuude, heres what you need to learn ASAP:
You do dissect conversations in order to get an upper hand, you do not intervene in order to look better in her eyes, you simply do anything and EVERYTHING for you. Get to the point, where you dont care if she likes it or not - if you like it, then its the right thing for you to do...
You are Waaaaaaaay to focused on her point of view, and how you portray yourself to her.. its weak and pursuit behavior, and its pushing her further away..
Heres the deal: the move is happening, and thats what it is. It doesnt mean anything in the bigger picture.. Let her move out, and focus on you, while she focuses on herself... its the only thing that will give you a chance of R in the future.
When that future comes, if you play your cards right, you have two paths to walk down.
1. You are ready for a new adventure with your W
2. You do not want to begin a new adventure with your W, because you have transformed into an individual with desires, goals and needs, that no longer matches the person she is.
Please, drop the rope.
^^^^^ Put this response in DB quotes.
Vik,
"Ai agree, I should not have said that. It backfired.She just messaged me that she will move out positively by tomorrow. She said her staying here was not right. Won't say anything out of emotions going forward. Anything I say say for a comeback on this one?"
Duuuuuuuuuude, heres what you need to learn ASAP:
You do dissect conversations in order to get an upper hand, you do not intervene in order to look better in her eyes, you simply do anything and EVERYTHING for you. Get to the point, where you dont care if she likes it or not - if you like it, then its the right thing for you to do...
You are Waaaaaaaay to focused on her point of view, and how you portray yourself to her.. its weak and pursuit behavior, and its pushing her further away..
Heres the deal: the move is happening, and thats what it is. It doesnt mean anything in the bigger picture.. Let her move out, and focus on you, while she focuses on herself... its the only thing that will give you a chance of R in the future.
When that future comes, if you play your cards right, you have two paths to walk down.
1. You are ready for a new adventure with your W
2. You do not want to begin a new adventure with your W, because you have transformed into an individual with desires, goals and needs, that no longer matches the person she is.
Please, drop the rope.
I agree Hurt and thanks a lot for your comments.
Going forward, just focus on myself and detach as much as I can. I think as she is moving out, I should be able to do better at that.
However, as she is leaving today, it's a sinking feeling and nothing seems to be right. Feels like last nail in the coffin.
I so want her to be back and have a happy family again.
Hope god is listening.
Vik,
"Ai agree, I should not have said that. It backfired.She just messaged me that she will move out positively by tomorrow. She said her staying here was not right. Won't say anything out of emotions going forward. Anything I say say for a comeback on this one?"
Duuuuuuuuuude, heres what you need to learn ASAP:
You do dissect conversations in order to get an upper hand, you do not intervene in order to look better in her eyes, you simply do anything and EVERYTHING for you. Get to the point, where you dont care if she likes it or not - if you like it, then its the right thing for you to do...
You are Waaaaaaaay to focused on her point of view, and how you portray yourself to her.. its weak and pursuit behavior, and its pushing her further away..
Heres the deal: the move is happening, and thats what it is. It doesnt mean anything in the bigger picture.. Let her move out, and focus on you, while she focuses on herself... its the only thing that will give you a chance of R in the future.
When that future comes, if you play your cards right, you have two paths to walk down.
1. You are ready for a new adventure with your W
2. You do not want to begin a new adventure with your W, because you have transformed into an individual with desires, goals and needs, that no longer matches the person she is.
Please, drop the rope.
I agree Hurt and thanks a lot for your comments.
Going forward, just focus on myself and detach as much as I can. I think as she is moving out, I should be able to do better at that.
However, as she is leaving today, it's a sinking feeling and nothing seems to be right. Feels like last nail in the coffin.
I so want her to be back and have a happy family again.
Hope god is listening.
Trust the process. Many WASs have the left the home, only to return later. Nothing is the last nail in the coffin as long as their is breath in both of your bodies.
Going forward, just focus on myself and detach as much as I can. I think as she is moving out, I should be able to do better at that.
I sure hope so because we've been telling you this for weeks and it sure seems to be falling on deaf ears! Vic, do you want your W back? THEN LET HER GO.
LET HER GO.
Sure AnotherStander.
Thanks for your straight words. I will not do anything out of emotions here on. NOTHING.
She is gone already, first day out of house. D is with me and she is at OMs place now. Will be staying at his place tonight most likely
Difficult to overcome this emotion that your wife is with some other man and staying with him at his place as if they were married.
Feel sad as hell.
Need advice...
Wife went to her apartment and sent me photographs of the play room of my daughter. To which I replied that the room looks amazing.
Then before finally leaving, she messaged me ( as I was in office) about the stuff that needs to be done in our apartment where we were living till now.
Took everything and just left the dress I had gifted her last year
Then when she went to OMs place, she messaged me how our D was doing and asked for her photographs so that she does not miss her.
I clicked some and sent and she liked the photographs.
Is this how we are supposed to interact ? and Am I doing right by answering her messages because these are pertaining to our D.
Anything else I should keep in mind while communication with her?
Vets, your advice is very appreciated.
Vik, a small distinction.
While W's request was ABOUT your D, the request was not FOR your D. Your D should come first in everything, but this particular case your W was asking about your D as a way to interact with you.
If she does not have photos of her D on her phone to look at when she misses her that's weird.
You didn't do a "bad" job here, but wanted to draw that distinction so you're aware in the future. You should absolutely be present and communicative when you're communicating about your D's well being. But in this case it was really just serving to make your W feel better. Your D did not gain anything from this interaction. I doubt she even knew about it, right?
Next time you could let W know, "D is doing very well today" and leave it at that.
Vik. Take your time. No need to respond immediately. If she questions it, "been busy" or something similar. A picture occasionally is fine. Do not be at her beckon call. General guidance: informational texts need no response. Texts with w questions answer, but in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers. Respond on your own time. IE not right away.