Hello, I’m looking for perspective and advice here. My husband moved out 11 months ago. We have a 3 year old daughter, and he comes here several times a week to see her, so we end up spending a fair amount of time together. I’ve been getting mixed signals from him throughout, but every time I’ve brought up reconciliation, he says he wants a divorce. But he hasn’t filed. Things were tense in the beginning of the separation and every time we argued he’d say he wanted a divorce. I decided to be patient, and to get therapy and really “clean up my side of the street” as I very much want to stay married to him. Things seemed to have plateaued recently; we have been getting along well, even chatting/joking and generally enjoying each other’s company. Then on Monday he texted me that he wants to move forward with the divorce.
And last night he brought the (blank) papers to my house. We had a 3 hour talk, and I did propose reconciliation (for the first time in months; Ive just been being warm and kind and not talking about it for a long time now). He was very receptive to the things I was saying, asking follow up questions, etc. it seemed like he was sooooooo close to saying he’d give it try many times in the convo, but by the end he was saying it’s too late and he wants to file the papers. I know that I should probably give up, but I just can’t seem to. It felt like he was so close.
Does anyone have any insight/advice/experience with a similar situation?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
but every time I’ve brought up reconciliation, he says he wants a divorce. But he hasn’t filed. Things were tense in the beginning of the separation and every time we argued he’d say he wanted a divorce.
First off I am very sorry you find yourself here, especially with a young child.
What does what you have said means to you ?
I would say he is wavering. What can you do to weigh things on your side ?
For us guys having a child can be very difficult. We get used to being n o 1 in our partners life and then it all changes .
Thank you for this. Is it not too late for all of these techniques? I feel like I am grasping at tiny straws after all this time?
I feel like I know he is wavering, but nothing I do seems to change that at all. I’ve been in therapy, I’ve been opwna an warm and friendly to him despite everything. And now this. I feel lost
I am sorry your are here. It's a tough road, and I'm sure doubly so with a small child.
Could you tell us a little more about your situation? How long you are married? Is there an OW in the picture?
If there is one thing I learned during this process, is that no matter what we say or do, it will not control the journey our spouse is on. We can only live our life to it's fullest, find our OWN happiness and purpose, and IF that someday includes our spouse, than so be it. Focus on your child, and being the most present, best mommy you can be. That is the most important thing IMO.
Hugs
Thank you for this. Being a good mom is what I’m focused on first (second and third) and foremost. Though I’m betond drained and exhausted I wouldn’t have it any other way for my daughter. I never imagined being here ( nobody does, I’m Sure) and it is just SO. HARD.
We’ve been married 6.5 years. We had a lot of fighting and hard times to be sure. He says he can see changes I’ve made but he’s afraid to trust it, afraid to take a chance and risk being hurt. I understand that for sure. Of course we both hurt each other, but I’m in a place of focusing on acknowledging and realizing the ways I hurt him as the damage I did. He recognizes and appreciates that, but it seems that isn’t enough.
There is no other woman as far as I know. When he first moved out he told me he wanted to be able to date, so I can’t say with completely certainty. Though I can say that all evidence points to that there isn’t any one woman he’s seeing.
I just don’t want to give up. What should I do at this point??
Thank you for this. Being a good mom is what I’m focused on first (second and third) and foremost. Though I’m betond drained and exhausted I wouldn’t have it any other way for my daughter. I never imagined being here ( nobody does, I’m Sure) and it is just SO. HARD.
We’ve been married 6.5 years. We had a lot of fighting and hard times to be sure. He says he can see changes I’ve made but he’s afraid to trust it, afraid to take a chance and risk being hurt. I understand that for sure. Of course we both hurt each other, but I’m in a place of focusing on acknowledging and realizing the ways I hurt him as the damage I did. He recognizes and appreciates that, but it seems that isn’t enough.
There is no other woman as far as I know. When he first moved out he told me he wanted to be able to date, so I can’t say with completely certainty. Though I can say that all evidence points to that there isn’t any one woman he’s seeing.
I just don’t want to give up. What should I do at this point??
I don’t know what to think or feel at this point. My husband is with our daughter, I saw an opportunity to leave after a few hours spent all together, we worked together rearranging daughters room and had a nice time, laughed a bit. I took the opportunity to leave on a high note, and caught him by surprise with my exit. Feeling good but also dreading finding out if he will bring up the divorce papers again tonight. I need advice/a game plan.
Your game plan is this:
"I understand you want a divorce, but it is not the path that I would want to take. However, I will not stand in your way if you choose to follow through with divorce."
And then exit the conversation!
FYI - the general rule here is that you let your thread run to 100 posts and then start a new thread linking both threads. I just posted in your new thread. Hopefully Cadet will see this and link them both.
FYI - the general rule here is that you let your thread run to 100 posts and then start a new thread linking both threads. I just posted in your new thread. Hopefully Cadet will see this and link them both.
yup ^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh got it, I didn’t know. So I should keep doing replies to my replies?
Oh got it, I didn’t know. So I should keep doing replies to my replies?
Yes
HopeCA. You are in for a very long a difficult journey. Read everything Cadet posted. At this point its time to work on you, be the best version of yourself possible. Dont pursue your H. Dont focus on making decisions based on how he will react.
Time to be supermom and make decisions that make you happy. My M did not survive unfortunately. That doesnt mean yours wont. But you need to prepare yourself to be a better person no matter what the outcome. You got this! Keep posting and updating.
Thank you for the support. I’m focusing on #1) my daughters well being, both day to day and emotionally/psychologically in the long run. I will say I feel that my H and I are both doing a very good job and keeping things as normal and peaceful as possible for her, and I think she is doing well, thank god. If she weren’t I literally don’t know how I’d handle this. The thing is that my H and actually get along well at this point and even have a pretty nice time together. It’s nice; it’s definitely a huge improvement from the very tense first few months of separation. And it’s defjnitely nice for our daughter. BUT it makes all of this that much more confusing, and keeps feeding the hope inside me.
Since he brought up moving forward with divorce a few days ago, I am focusing a lot more on detaching myself and just living my life regardless of his words and actions. It hasn’t been long, but it feels pretty good. I stalled on the papers, telling him I need to look them over and just understand the process (which happens to be true) but obviously I can only do that for so long and I’m DREADING the next time he brings it up.
If he brings up D again just repeat that you understand thats what he wants and that you dont want that but will not stop him.
Are you getting out and getting a life? Hit the gym if you arent. Go buy some nice clothes for yourself. Make a point to look great every day.
I dont even leave my room until my room is clean and im showered and dressed well. I lost a ton of weight and I feel great. I changed my wardrobe as well, now that I fit in nice clothes.
Self care is a huge thing right now. My confidence and self esteem have gone sky high because of the changescI made. Again my M is over, but my WW can see that I value and love myself. My changes were for me, but it improved all of my other relationships when I started to value and respect myself.
HopeCA. I hope things are going okay with you. Just remember to keep taking care of yourself and your daughter.
Thank you all. I am doing my best to take good care of myself, fortunately I’m last the point of being so depressed that I don’t care about those things. I do my best to keep my home as nice as I can as well as my appearance. Yes, I do these things to attract my husband, but more and more I feel it’s for myself.
I’m feeling super anxious today. My H is coming to see our daughter and I’m extremely nervous, waiting to find out if he will bring up the divorce papers. It’s agonizing. Im conflicted; he gave
Me the blank papers he had to look over. The last tome we discussed divorce, he agreed that we could basically fill out the papers together to make sure we are on the same page before filing, to avoid needing lawyers/mediation later. We were in agreement in regard to custody and don’t have any real assets. I’m torn because if he is going to file, I’d like to do it that way and maintain some control. However I got the advice that my helping the process along in that way wouldn’t be a good idea. Don’t know what to do there, and I pray I won’t have to figure it out.
He spent time with 2 of his closest (married) friends over the weekend. I’m praying that just maybe they gave him some wise words about marriage and family.
He brought up the papers again after we put our daughter to bed. I’m devastated. I really had hoped that he might have changed his mind or at least considered it. I guess it’s all magical thinking. I’ve been hopeful for so long and it’s all slipping away and I don’t know what else to do. I want a strategy or a magic bullet. I don’t want to give up but I’m losing hope.
Has anyone had experience reconciling being at the point I’m at? Is it even possible?
I feel so lost because even after these conversations, I get so sad, and then I go back to trying to dissect his words and actions for signs of hope. It’s like my heart won’t let me believe what’s happening.
I’ve been working on trying to separate myself and not be around when he’s here, I guess I need more of that.
Hope,
I am going to be as direct as possible with you (and I do root for you, and hope things work out !)
Reconciling is never off the table. You need to understand, and remember, that YOU control YOUR actions. As long as your actions, and your mind is saying, that reconciliation is what you want, then that is what you will work towards. But it is SO important, that you work towards this goal from place of strength.
You will in time, when you choose a path that allows you to grow as a human, because you learned from this very traumatic experience, realize that you are so much more than just an entity that consists of the product you and your husband became. You need to realize, that you are an individual with so much to offer, and your husband has a lot he needs to work on before he can even start the process of seeing you for what you are, and what he fell in love with in the beginning of your journey.
How do you choose this path? By living your life to the fullest, each and every day. Sit down, make a list of things you want to achieve over say the next 5 years - things that are completely about you (selfish? absolutely, and that is the mindset you want to progress into - stop pleasing everyone around you, and start living for you - that makes you attractive and interesting, even though it might feel very counterintuitive to drop the rope on pleasing the ones we love). Then make a timeline, where you set yourself up for these goals, what needs to happen in order for you to achieve these new goals of yours.
Made that list?
Great! Now you have some long term goals, an that gives you purpose. With purpose comes the possibility of change, and with change comes the possibility of learning and acquiring new thing and skillsets, and that is EXACTLY what you need.
Now make another list. Now I want you to make a list of your short term goals: What do you want to change or achieve over the next 5 months? Reach these goals, and you will feel absolutely empowered and ready to set new goals for yourself.
Whenever your husband is present around you, then make sure to validate him, no matter how he feels (unless it is about OM - then you set a boundary, because you wont tolerate being disrespected - you are a person that values yourself, and you wont take crap from anyone). Be content, be "happy" and fake it for now, and 3 months from now, maybe sooner, maybe later, you wont be faking quite as much. Remember to listen to what he tells you, no matter what you feel about it, just listen and validate. You might think; "What? that is absolutely not how it happened", however this is how the WAH/WH process things in order to reassure themselves, that what they are doing is alright - because, a lot of things were absolutely horrible (no they most likely weren't), but validate and let it pass like the wind.
The best metaphor on this site (in my belief) is the cat metaphor: "Do not try to pick up the cat, do not try to coheres the cat into doing what you want it to - that doesnt work, and the cat will walk in huge circles around you. Do however, ignore the cat, and give it your full attention, when it decides to come near you, and should it choose to walk away, then by all means, let it." I hope you get the picture.
Hugs!
Everything Hurt213 said is true. Very wise words.
And in most cases I might add that they have done horrible things. And they know it.
In my wife's case she is the typical librarian nerdy type. Kind of like Talia Shire (Rocky's sister) - we are both Greek btw. You would not in a million years picture this person with an affair. She is a household wife, very inexperienced.
I didnt even want to bother looking for proof.
For laughs one day I looked around the house. The truth was out there.
Thank you for the advice Hurt213. This all makes a lot of sense and I will try those ideas, and make the lists.
Right now in this moment my biggest struggle is with myself. I’m having trouble making sense of what is happening at the moment because last week when my H and I spoke about our M it just felt like it he was soooo close to giving it a chance. He said he was worried that he wouldn’t be able to “feel like it was real” with me and worried about what would happen if he took a chance and it didn’t work out. To me, That is so different from, say, “I don’t love you and I’ve moved on”. It makes it feel like there is a possibility buried in there, off he could get past his fear.
I know I can’t control him and can only control me. I know I can’t convince him and shouldn’t try to. It’s just excruciating to feel like the possibility for reconciling was just within reach.
And ps. I like the cat metaphor a lot!
I’ve been reading some posts on cake eating and wondering if I have been letting too much of that happen. My H comes to my (our?) home 3 days a week to see our daughter, and as I’ve written before, we end up having a fair amount of family time together because of it. I do feel the current arrangement is best for our daughter (she’s 3) and I’ve also enjoyed it too. We have a nice time together which is somewhat frustrating and really confusing. Maybe I’ve been letting him have it both ways??? I’m just not sure what adjustments I could make to take some of it away from HIM, without also taking it away from our daughter...?
For staters you could dress up really sexy and leave the house when he shows up.
Yes, I’ve thought of that and I’m thinking I’ll try it this week
Just read someone else’s post, and her sitch is very similar to mine. It made me think and gave me some
perspective I wish I’d had sooner. I’m wondering (with a pit in my stomach) if maybe things would be different right now if I had started detaching and actually making my H think he was losing me/us sooner??? He’s been getting the best of both worlds: living away, dating AND quality family time and quasi marriage. I’m gonna try a crash course in showing him all he is in fact losing with a divorce. I really hope it isn’t too late!
I know you can’t fake being over someone, but I’d really like to try. Maybe if I can fake it long enough it will feel real.
Before you go down that route , are you the Hopeca that only a fool would leave ?
Good question Tryhard. I honestly think I am...? I take care of myself and my appearance, and I always up that ante when H comes over. I’m at a point where I can authentically be friendly and even funny around my H again, I feel like myself around him again, finally. I’ve been in IC for almost our entire separation and I’ve done a ton of very hard work on myself, my issues and trauma, and where I went wrong in our marriage. I am a really, really good and present mom to our daughter. So, I think I am???
UGH. H just texted me a very formal sounding message saying that he wants to take our daughter to his place for dinner so would I please let her know and have her ready to go. Nothing destroys hope like a formal co parenting text. I’m feeling sick and broken hearted. And disheartened from my plan to go out looking good when he got here. Feels like I shouldn’t even bother. Any advice? How to respond to his message and what to do??
The last couple of weeks I feel like I went from being full of hope. To having it drained from me super quickly. It feels like he was conflicted for so long and suddenly he’s not and he’s decided it’s really over. I’m crushed.
Dress up, be ready. You never know you can't read minds. Just keep working the process. But keep expectations down. It may not be a great time, but it's never a bad time to you look your best around him. Do it! and if you feel it didn't get noticed, then go out and get noticed by others!
You’re right. Thank you!!! I will continue on with what I had planned and hopefully it will make me feel good regardless.
Hi Hope,
I am so sorry you find yourself here. You will find a community of people, who although from different backgrounds all have one thing in common. They care. They say grief brings with it compassion. The people here are testament to that. Many have long since moved on, or reconciled and still find the time to come here and offer support and advice to those of us still in the throes of it.
We can certainly offer perspective and advice. Take what resonates with you and know that all advice is offered with kindness and love. I will go back to your opening post ...
I'’ve been getting mixed signals from him throughout, but every time I’ve brought up reconciliation, he says he wants a divorce
When you say mixed signals, are you referring to the coming around to see your daughter and spending 'family' time with the two of you? I went to see a healer the other day (I have discovered I am a hippy at heart) and we discussed the 'mixed' signals. She offered the following:
1. He wants to be nice. He cannot stand the thought of me not thinking he is nice.
2. He wants to put me in a box that says "mother" - this referred to the birthday presents, the Christmas presents and the mothers day presents. She pointed out he had not bought me a valentines or an anniversary present. He did not even acknowledge these.
3. He uses it as a way of controlling me.
I will throw in a final one ... he does not know what he wants and is making sure I am still in the same place he left me.
I decided to be patient, and to get therapy and really “clean up my side of the street” as I very much want to stay married to him.
This is a good start. You are doing the internal work but you also need to
get out of your head . Do you have any hobbies, any interests?. It is tough I know with a little one (I pretty much isolated myself when my kids were little), but him moving out gives you the opportunity to explore who you are, not as a wife, or as a mother. Instead of family time, how about some Hope time? Next time he has your daughter, make some plans. Join a meet up group, call a girlfriend and ask her if she wants to watch a movie or eat at some funky new restaurant, go and watch live comedy. At first it will feel terribly forced, you will feel guilty about not being with your family, but in time you will learn to enjoy being on your own. This is when you will really start to shine. When you remember who
you are . Note: this is not about getting your H back. It is about getting you back.
Read Adam's posts about the 80/20 rule. He joins in family time about 20% of the time. The rest he spends with the kids (on his own), or doing his own thing. He goes to the gym, meets up with buddies or goes to dinner on his own. That's the other thing, you learn to like being on your own.
The other thing I would suggest is meditation. It helps with anxiety and also learning to let things go. I don't mean giving up on your M, but learning to quiet that voice in your head that worries about things you cannot control.
I know the talk of D has thrown you. It is not the end. The end is when you stand down. Just carry on as you have been, working on yourself and learning to enjoy life again. He will come back or he will not. That is up to him.
You've read bits of my thread. I make mistakes. Detaching is easy for me, GAL'g is easy for me. Boundaries I have problems with. I am working on that.
P jam— it went well in the sense that I got dressed up and left and had dinner at a place I’d been wanting to try. I felt pretty good about it, so there’s that. Thank you for asking!
Fly solo— thank you so much for this. You’re right that I need to find a way out of my head. I’ve been spending a fair amount of time with my friends when H is with our daughter, so I do feel like I’m succeeding at GAL. It’s the detaching that is super challenging for me. I’ve always enjoyed my own time with friends etc. and I’ve tried all along to avoid the urge to isolate myself.
Yes, I guess a lot of the mixed signals I’ve felt from him refer to him wanting to spend time with us all together as a family. He bought me a nice Christmas gift, and brought me flowers on Valentine’s Day. He lingers after we’ve put our daughter to bed, sometimes chatting with me on the couch, sometimes just sitting quietly not saying much. Those types of things. You are right that there are likely several reasons for these actions, some having to do with his not knowing what he wants, but some are likely more selfish on his part.
He just sent me a divorce related email. This is excruciating. The thing is that I genuinely believed that he would come back eventually. I felt like it was so close so many times. I worry that all the times I thought I was being strong that I was really just in denial. I’m trying so hard, but I only feel strong between talk of divorce. Each time he brings it up again, I crumble inside.
Anyway, thank you so muchfor the supportive words!
H sent me an email about finances in regards to divorce. We had agreed that if we were getting a D that we would try to do it as simply and easily as possible, ie avoid court. I do feel that is potentially possible. Anyway he emailed me asking me to agree to not going after his small retirement savings, and in return he won’t go after my savings account I had when we were married.
I want to be smart and I want to protect myself. I also am not, at this point worried at all that he’s trying to take me for a ride. I trust that in my gut. I also want to respond in the best DB style way. Any advice is welcome
Also— I read something in another forum about the Last Resort Technique and I’m wondering what sets that technique apart? I think I may be doing it already, but if there’s something I’m missing I’d like to implement it?
Sometimes I feel like there’s something wrong with me for still hanging on to hope. But...I do. When H and I last discussed it, all the reasons he had for getting a D is that he’s afraid to try again, that he can’t imagine being intimate again after all this time because he feels like it would be fake seeming (it probably would but I suspect we’d get past it quickly), that he feels it’s too risky for him and he might get hurt again, etc. I GET all of that and they are valid concerns. Am I nuts for feeling like those reasons all have a “I want to but...” ring to them?
Hope,
First of all, good on you for getting up and going out (dinner), because YOU wanted to go. You need to do more of this - Not because HE is coming around the house, or in order for HIM to see that you have a life and what not, but because YOU want to experience things and have desires here in life.
Something wrong with you? Oh dear sweetheart - Absolutely not. You are a human being, and one of the things that rewards us and at the same time hurts us in this world, is what sets us a side from the rest of the species inhabiting this planet - our ability to cognitively process every day decisions and our ability ro reflect upon goals and missed opportunities in life. This is a blessing, but in certain traumatic incidents in our lives, such as having ones foundation ripped from under ones feet, can be just too much to cope with, and it just fills the "cup".
How do we empty the cup? By allowing ourselves new experiences to take our minds off things that hurt, and they will in time hurt a little less, and then suddenly, not so much at all. So, I urge you to go out and fill that cup, even though it can be draining just getting up some days.
I get this feeling when I read through your journal, that divorce for you is the end - that you need to get him to turn around before this happens - I might be wrong - but if not then I am curious.
Are there some religious reasons behind you seeing divorce being the final nail in the coffin? Divorce is just a piece of paper, and if you dont want to give up, then you shouldn't have to - divorce regardless. But you need to come from a place of strength, and with your many concerns regarding how your husband is feeling, and how he is thinking, you are most likely not coming from there.
Show him, that you are capable of a life without him, because you were before you met him, and certainly you will be again - you already are.
Live life how you want to - dig deep down and feel yourself - who are you, and what do you want - not what does HE want.
If he comes around, it will be because he sees you for you, and it will be because he can see himself being with what he sees. not someone who adapted into his needs, but someone who loves themselves enough to not settle for less.
(Hugs)
Anyway he emailed me asking me to agree to not going after his small retirement savings, and in return he won’t go after my savings account I had when we were married.
If you had a savings account at the time you were married, whatever was in it is not marital property. If you've contributed to it since getting married then it gets tough to sort out because what was already in it is yours, but what you contributed to it after M is joint property.
Similarly, if any of his retirement was accrued before M then it's his, if after M it's joint property.
I want to be smart and I want to protect myself. I also am not, at this point worried at all that he’s trying to take me for a ride.
Well, if all of your savings was yours before M, and all of his retirement was accrued after M, then yes he's trying to take you for a ride. But if you were both contributing to those accounts after M, then it's probably a fair split if the accounts are relatively equal. My XW and I both had 401K accounts, we had both started them before M and contributed to them throughout the M. Rather than try to figure out how to divide them up we just said "you keep yours and I'll keep mine" as it was way easier.
Also— I read something in another forum about the Last Resort Technique and I’m wondering what sets that technique apart? I think I may be doing it already, but if there’s something I’m missing I’d like to implement it?
There's a chapter on it in DR, I definitely suggest you read it. LRT is pretty much just leaving him alone. No being his text buddy or shoulder to cry on or anything like that.
When H and I last discussed it, all the reasons he had for getting a D is that he’s afraid to try again, that he can’t imagine being intimate again after all this time because he feels like it would be fake seeming (it probably would but I suspect we’d get past it quickly), that he feels it’s too risky for him and he might get hurt again, etc. I GET all of that and they are valid concerns. Am I nuts for feeling like those reasons all have a “I want to but...” ring to them?
The reason they have that "ring" to them is he wants you to stay on as Plan B. You don't want to be Plan B, and you don't want him thinking/ knowing you are Plan B. As long as you are Plan B you will never, ever graduate to Plan A. Remove yourself as an option and suddenly you become much more desirable. People want what they can't have.
I just want to do a quick thank you to everyone here. I’m deeply touched that complete strangers are here taking your own time to help and support me. Thank you.
All the advice I’m hearing here is showing me that I am not as detached as I think I am, and I’m notmaucceeding at showing him that he losing me. It’s not surprising giving the way I’m feeling, I guess I just hoped it would be a fake it til I make thing? Like I’m going through the actions to try to detach and not be present for him the way I was before. I will try to focus on changing my thoughts to be about me and not him, and maybe that will help me along. I DO NOT want to be plan b, and I do NOT want him thinking I will be. I need to get out of that mode, and I think what I’m hearing is that dressing up and going out when he’s here isn’t enough to achieve that haha.
Hope - we all here feel the same ... complete strangers maybe, but we have all been / are still, where you are now and we know how terrifying and confusing it can be.
No, you are not detached enough. Our sitch's are similar yes, but the difference is I have accepted that he may never come back and am OK with that. I (mostly) don't base my actions on how it will affect him and I am able to act normal around him again.
It is more than dressing up nice and going out when he is there - it is dressing up nice and going out irrespective of whether he is there or not. It is dressing up and going out because you have someplace you want to go where you want to look good. And [censored] what he thinks about it.
The only way is to just start doing it. And this is where the faking it till you make it comes in. You need to force yourself to go out and participate in life again. When you're out you have to put him to the back of your mind. You will think about him frequently, but just tell your brain to stop, you Hope, are out having too much fun at the moment. When you're out you will want to go home - force yourself to stay out. This doesn't mean standing around in bars looking for men, but it does mean getting out of your comfort zone.
Focus on you. It is your healing that is important right now.
You are completely right. I have to stop thinking and talking about him all the time with my friends, and using so much energy focusing on what he might do or say in reaction to me. It’s truly exhausting and it’s giving away too much of myself. It’s also completely become my normal state so it will be a hard habit to break. I’m going to dinner with an old friend this evening and I’ve texted H to ask him to stay late after he puts our daughter to bed. I’m gonna give her a brief update and then let her know I don’t want to think or talk about him this evening. (I think I talk about it a lot for other people’s sake? They are all so concerned and I feel like I owe them updates. Which is NOT TRUE).
Thank you FS! You inspire me
Enjoy your dinner Hope. You deserve a H free evening.
BTW - I stopped talking about my H IRL a long time ago. I might mention him occasionally, mainly to moan when his done something to p*ss me off or as an aside when I'm describing my weekend and some of the weekend included him. I do all my H related thinking here ... eventually I hope to get to a point when my journal entries don't have so much H in them.
You will know when you are detached. Its when your WS actions have zero impact on your emotions and decisions. Also, they react to it. My WW reacted negatively to me dropping the rope. She got uglier and kicked up the hate when the temperature checks didnt work.
(I think I talk about it a lot for other people’s sake? They are all so concerned and I feel like I owe them updates. Which is NOT TRUE).
Yes - I have a few friends I only see once in a while, and every time the convo is dominated by H updates, and musing what his "issues" are. I have vowed to stop it. Some are initiated by me, but most want an update. Keeping it brief sounds like a good idea. After all. His issues do not define me or my current life.
I’m checking in, and trying to reality check myself. I am focusing on (but not yet succeeding fully at) detaching. I felt really good when I let for my dinner on Tuesday, I focused on me and on my daughter and then on going and having fun with my friend, and it felt so good! I saw my H checking me out before I left, and when he saw me see him he winked at me super nervously and awkwardly. Who knows, but it gave me a boost. He lingered a bit when I got back but I didn’t bite. At my therapy session on Wednesday I told my therapist that I wanted to talk about anything but him, so that was new, ha!
Yesterday I took my daughter to the beach, always a favorite family activity for us. It was a lovely time, then at about 2 pm, I see my H walking up with his buddy and his surfboard (he’s a lifelong surfer). My heart sank and I was frozen in shock. He goes there a lot but I didn’t expect him in the middle of the work day. My daughter (she’s 3) was insanely excited to see him, he said hi to us and played with her for a moment. Then he casually asked if he could just take her from there when he was done surfing. It was his evening with him, but this was super irritating to me given the circumstances. Like I’m gonna turn my beach day with my daughter into waiting there for him to surf so I can hand her off?? I had so many emotions as he walked off to surf, but they didn’t matter because my daughter was beside herself. She was so upset, confused as to why he was there and not playing with her. She cried hysterically for an hour, just saying I want daddy over and over. It was absolutely heart breaking and I was (perhaps irrationally) PISSED. But as I was comforting my daughter on my way home, I realized that despite all of my valid feelings, he hadn’t in fact done anything “wrong” to me. I knew that when he came to my house afterward that he would be expecting me to be angry and punish him somehow. So I decided to flip the script. I comforted and talked to my daughter and got her settled. Then I freshened up, has a glass of wine and greeted him with a smile. He offered to pick up dinner and asked what I wanted, I thanked him kindly and let him know I’d be going out. He apologized to our daughter for upsetting her and to ME for leaving me to deal with it. This is basically UNPRECENDENTED. The man has apologized to me properly less than 5 times in the nearly 8 years I’ve known him. I thanked him and left. When I got back he was sitting rather close to me on the couch, casually chatting with me about an article he’d read. He said to my daughter “ you smell really good, like coconut” and I said oh actually that’s me and he seemed embarrassed. I’ve been wearing the same scent for about 20 years so I’m fairly sure he knew it was me but who knows. He left after Daughters bed time without mentioning anything divorce related, and that alone felt like a small victory.
Now I just need to be VERY careful not to attach any meaning to any of this and keep myself free of expectations. It is very very difficult and leaves me feeling like...I don’t know how to feel, I suppose.
I’m realizing that the hardest part of detaching for me, maybe the hardest part of all of this, is the stress of the inevitable lows after feeling good and strong. I realize the irony because if I were fully detached, none of it would really get me down.
I woke up feeling sensitive and cranky, and I could feel myself being a bit sensitive and cranky with my H this morning when he got here to be with our daughter. My sensitivity was putting me into old patterns of over analyzing and misinterpreting his expressions and responses to me. We had a semi tense exchange, but we both stayed calm. I could feel myself getting triggered and getting upset at thinking he was having negative thoughts about me and our exchange. I started imagining him telling himself “see nothings changed, here we are arguing” and my anxiety started building wondering if he will want to talk about divorce stuff again this evening. I took a moment in my bedroom to breathe, then came out and did my best quick recovery turn around. He did come to me and squeezed my shoulder apologized if he’d given me the impression he was upset with me and assured me I hadn’t done anything wrong. I had to keep myself from crying and told him he hadn’t done anything either and that I was just in a cranky mood.
It got repaired quickly and as well as could be expected, I just feel knocked off my horse and kind of shaken and anxiety ridden.
My therapist often talks to me about keeping myself in a box in which i feel that if I don’t “keep quiet and don’t have any feelings and be good” that maybe he’ll love me again. I know that’s not loving to myself, it’s not sustainable or realistic or even desirable. I need to be me and I need to be human. I just haven’t figured out how to detach enough yet to feel that it’s ok to do so and let the cards fall as they may. I’m trying but I’m not there yet. I want to figure out how to get my power back before I see him again this evening, so that I can feel strong and confident. UGH.
It’s been a while since I’ve posted. I’ve been surprising myself by doing a really good job at starting to detach more, and spending a lot less time around my H when he’s here with our daughter. Yesterday I went to see a house that I thought my daughter and I might move into, and I kind of spiraled afterwards, feeling really sad and depressed at the prospect of moving without H. So that was hard and sort of knocked me down a bit.
Things with my H have been pretty good. We had a kind of a negative morning recently and I was starting to nosedive into emotional stuff but recovered quickly and gracefully an he actually apologized to me for his part of what had happened which was somewhat miraculous. He hasn’t brought up divorce talk in 2 weeks, and he’s def been trying to connect with me in small ways, discussing work, trying to show me some videos he thinks are funny, bringing me a bottle of wine...I don’t get it. I’m really happy that we haven’t talked about divorce in a bit, but I also feel like I’m back to limbo. I wish he would just step toward me, just a tiny bit!!!
Hi Hope
I am just checking in to your thread after we bumped into each other on FlySolo's thread. How are things for you since you last posted?
Hi Alison, thanks for checking in!
I’m doing ok. My 3 year old daughter has kept me quite busy and I haven’t seen my H since Saturday night when he was here with our daughter. I’ve been thinking a lot about trying to be encouraging to his bids for connection without being pursuant and while still still detaching. It’s complex! He’s coming this evening to be with our daughter and I’ve been making a point to leave every time he comes. He’ll often text in the afternoon to talk about dinner plans. For a long time I’d just have dinner with them, sometimes if cook or sometimes he’d bring take out, and lately I’ve been declining all of that and leaving regardless. I sometimes worry that I’m being discouraging to him this way. But if I don’t, then I’m missing my rare opportunities to GAL, as these are the only evenings I’m not at home with my daughter. Maybe I should stay occasionally, if he makes an actual offer to cook or something...I also worry about cake eating when I stay while he’s here. Lately he likes to discuss his work troubles and random things with me, and that feels like something one does with their spouse. I don’t really want to give that to him given the sitch. I guess I just don’t know where the lines are between GAL/detaching while still encouraging and fostering warmth and intimacy.
Yeah, I have exactly the same questions. It's been going on a lot less time for me than it has for you, and there's a kind of built in dead-line for me, as H has consistently said that once he's finished his busy period at work, he will commit to fully working on our M. He may not do that, of course, but then he'll have run out of excuses and after that I plan to go dark entirely. At the moment I am just trying to do what you're doing, and mainly messing it up.
Alison— I imagine having a deadline like that could make it both a lot harder and a lot easier...it’s interesting that your H has consistently said that though. I messed up a LOT for the first several months as well (I wish I’d discovered an had the strength for this whole DB thing a lot sooner). Maybe that’s why almost a year later I’m still here...
Journaling...
I’m currently feeling a a blend of very torn and very frustrated at being at a plateau again. Though I know the latter is impatience and that means I’m not detached. Sigh. I’m feeling torn because I’ve been getting the advice from my very smart best friend that I should pretty much be going dark at this point—always leaving when my H comes over and avoiding engaging with him about anything but our daughter. In some ways I think she’s right; after all it appears to have stopped (at least for now) the imminent divorce talk that was happening a few weeks ago, and that is obviously something. But I worry that if I go totally dark that I will be discouraging to him and and not giving him anything to miss. It feels like a dilemma— if I’m around for him to chat with he can’t miss me, but if I’m never around him how will he know what to miss? Does that sound all wrong?
My H comes this evening to see our daughter and I’m still feeling really torn about this. A big part of me feels like the extreme distancing I’ve been doing (leaving every time he comes here, as opposed to having dinner with them etc as I was before) has been having a positive effect. There’s also another part of me that worries about taking it too far and losing the connection we are building a tiny bit at a time. I worry that if I’m NEVER around he will disconnect entirely and not have anything reference points to missing me, if that makes sense.
Should I be mixing in occasional dinners together when it arises naturally? Or should I continue to make myself scarce? Any advice would be great as I prepare for tonight. Happy to give more info or details if it would be helpful!
UGGHHHH. I’m feeling frustrated and impatient. I realized I’ve been reading way too much into the fact that my H was talking very seriously about divorce a few weeks ago and then, since I 180ed and started leaving every time he comes around to visit our daughter, that has stopped. I guess I started thinking that it really meant something, that he must really be turning toward our marriage in some way, but unsurprisingly nothing is actually happening really.
I made the yearbook for our daughters preschool class and copied him on the automated email to all the parents about it. As he left just now he mentioned that he should give me money for one and it triggered me and now I’m feeling pissed off and frustrated. I just feel so stuck. Of course I’m happy that the divorce talk and momentum came to a pause/stop, but I do not like being back in limbo. We are at a year separated now. I can’t [censored] believe I’m still in limbo.
Hope,
Don't be so hard on yourself or the sitch. It's true maybe it means nothing maybe it means something - but you're mind reading. I do it too. BUT! if you're going to mind read you have to at least try and be equally fair on both sides. 2 weeks ago he was serious about D, then nothing> I'm sure some DB'ing was working (but its not over). The year book... that very well could just be an automated response to make sure he's not showing to many of his cards right now. Or it could mean that hes' still focused on divorce. The point is, the year book response really means NOTHING - you just read into it that; it doesn't support the other mind reading about his attention on D. Cut yourself (and him) some slack. if you're going to mind read at least try to balance it and limit the amount of weight you put on it. Otherwise you will make decisions that could hurt the sitch. Remember how you feel when you're mind reading in the positive? you make better decisions in that mindset. Everyone here will just tell you to stop PERIOD - but I know how hard that is. So just take steps to limit how MUCH you read into it and keep moving forward.
Alison— I imagine having a deadline like that could make it both a lot harder and a lot easier...it’s interesting that your H has consistently said that though. I messed up a LOT for the first several months as well (I wish I’d discovered an had the strength for this whole DB thing a lot sooner). Maybe that’s why almost a year later I’m still here...
It does make it harder and easier. Easier, in that I know this work thing is once in a blue moon totally out of the ordinary and he isn't using it as an excuse - he's stressed out of his mind, actually fairly depressed and I totally believe he just doesn't have any emotional resources right now. He's being honest about that and not blaming me and I can respect it. However, it does mean that I've had this perhaps false comfort that everything will start moving quickly once the deadline passes - which is this month - and if it doesn't, I am going to come back to earth with a bump. I might ruin things myself by putting a lot of pressure on things as soon as he finishes the project and not give him proper time to unwind and recover. He's been concentrating on his work, I've been working on myself - we're in really different places and while I think I'm different, I'm afraid it will be just more of the same from him until he actually makes the time to do the work, and I am impatient. And you know - this could just be an excuse. I think after the end of this month I need to go dark and see what happens.
Journaling...
I’m currently feeling a a blend of very torn and very frustrated at being at a plateau again. Though I know the latter is impatience and that means I’m not detached. Sigh. I’m feeling torn because I’ve been getting the advice from my very smart best friend that I should pretty much be going dark at this point—always leaving when my H comes over and avoiding engaging with him about anything but our daughter. In some ways I think she’s right; after all it appears to have stopped (at least for now) the imminent divorce talk that was happening a few weeks ago, and that is obviously something. But I worry that if I go totally dark that I will be discouraging to him and and not giving him anything to miss. It feels like a dilemma— if I’m around for him to chat with he can’t miss me, but if I’m never around him how will he know what to miss? Does that sound all wrong?
This is precisely what I am struggling with. H has said he wants to keep connected as much as we can, given how little resources he has right now. What that means is that basically I am not DBing very well. He texts me more or less every day. We sometimes have R talks. I've let him see me upset. We haven't exactly had dates for a while - we tried this a few months ago and it was a disaster - but he has been in the house a lot with the kids and I tend to hang around unless I have something else specific I want to do. I've cooked for him and given him food to take home with him and tried to support him in other ways that are more 'wife' than they should be. I am afraid he's having his cake and eating it - but I am hoping to be able to support him and show him kindness until he's ready to come home. Like I say, this is all going to have to change, and change fast, if he doesn't start returning some of the effort and working on the R once his work is done. I have that clear deadline.
Would giving yourself a deadline help you?
Thank you P Jam. You’re right my mind reading skills leave much to be desired
. It’s good for me to be reminded that I do not in fact have any idea what is going on in his head, and therefore should stop trying to figure it out. My frustration and sadness got the best of me.
Plus the fact that I’m up on a year now. To your question Allison, that was always the deadline I gave myself. I was going to give it up to a year at the very longest and then file if we weren’t getting anywhere. Thing is, i didn’t eve think of the possibility that we might get somewhere, it just soundly be very far from where we were. The fact that I’m now up against my self imposed deadline, I feel very anxious and mixed up inside. I don’t know what’s right. Do I give up on a marriage I still want despite the fact that there has been (very minor) progress? Or do I stay married to someone who very well may not have any desire to be married to me but is just too lazy/avoidant to do anything about it a year later? It feels like an impossible situation. I guess I’m having a hard time letting myself off the hook of the deadline I created.
Hi Hope. You need to let H go and free yourself. Don´t fear of loosing whatever your R with H is. You need a new one. Keep detaching and GAL. Stick to DB. Comprehend the counterintuitive part.
Take your time, no deadlines, avoid mindreading. All of these things get you into anxiety. Stay calm and moving forward.
NO fear. Keep DB
This sounds like me, pretty much exactly, and I don’t know what I want to do either. One year is this Sunday, and I teach, so I was giving myself until this school year is over, I don’t know if I’m ready to pull the trigger myself, but I also know, for me, it will be taking control of my life, whatever the outcome. People keep saying on here, D is just a piece of paper, which is true, but I also think for him, it’s a nail in the coffin. He also has too much pride that once D is final, I think that will be it for him.
Thanks neffer. I do think I lose sight lately when I get caught up in the deadline stuff. Thing is that I’m actually doing a good job with the GAL part. It’s when I’m alone with my thoughts that I get into trouble. I’m getting there with the detached part, slowly, but I’m not there yet, clearly. I think you are right about the counterintuitive aspects of all of this. I think a lot of those things are clear to me on the surface, but I do get nervous about some of them. I have to remind myself over and over that I tried the other stuff (ie being available to him, being vulnerable with him, etc) and they did not work toward my goals. At all. I have to keep that in my mind when the fear and anxiety chimes in.
The no deadlines part I’m really struggling with. I’m just not sure how to settle into that mentally...
Othstr, I feel the exact same way. Sometimes I think my filing would be the only way to prove to my H that I’m letting him go, but I also feel strongly that it would be the nail in the coffin Because of his pride/ avoidant nature / path of least resistance personality.
Need advice:
My daughter has a preschool classmates birthday party this afternoon. In our marriage (and until now in our separation) I typically take her to these types of things, for a variety of reasons. This time
I’m having my H take her while I have fun with friends.
The thing is that I haven’t shared our situation with any of the parents at school. I’m only superficially friends with them at this point and it’s a pretty gossipy scene which I don’t care to be fodder for. My H is fairly unfiltered and I’m concerned he might mention it while chatting with them. My gut is that it’s a risk I’ll have to take because to ask him not to mention it seems...the opposite of detached? I don’t want him to say anything, but I’m afraid if I ask him not to then it’ll give him the impression that I’m still in it and not accepting that we aren’t together, or something like that. Thoughts??
Hi Hope. My thoughts... I know exactly how you feel. I felt the same way at the beginning of my sitch. The reality is, though, you can’t really control what H says or does and you shouldn’t try to. Going out with your friends is a great idea. You should and you should have fun. I think you are right... talking to him about what to say to people is exactly that...the opposite of detached.
Honestly... worrying about what people think is just another worry you don’t need right now. At the end of the day... who cares what they think? How does that hurt you? The reality is that most, if not all, people know someone who is going through similar situations. I found that when I stopped worrying about it and talked to people, the response I got was understanding and support. It’s not that I went around talking incessantly about it to random people but I did eventually talk to most of the people who I see regularly and it lifted a weight off my shoulders. Think about how you would feel if someone you knew was going through the same thing. Would you judge them? Think unkind thoughts? No you wouldn’t. And frankly, anyone who would, is not worth worrying about anyway.
Hold your head up high Hope. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Show the world what a strong and competent woman you are and stop worrying what other people will think. (((HUGS)))
Thank you DV6. Reading what you wrote really helped me to start let go of my concerns about what people might think if they knew about my sitch. The worst case scenario doesn’t even actually bother me much. I didn’t mention it, and I know that was the right decision. You are right also, about me trying to maintain some sense of control over what my H does it doesn’t tell people, and thereby maintain some sense of control over the situation itself. I struggle with letting go of control in many aspects of my life, it’s how I manage my anxiety, but the more I let go of those efforts the better I feel. I’m really focused on detaching and this was just another piece of that.
On another note, I talked to an old friend of mine a bit about my sitch yesterday. I didn’t tell her about DB, but I did let her know a bit about how I’m navigating my sitch at this point, my detaching efforts, etc. she and I came back to my place in the evening after my daughter was in bed, and my H was on his way out. He sat on the couch, lingering and chatting with her, catching up. After he left she commented on it, she felt it was interesting that he took the time to do that rather than just saying hi and leaving. Her advice was that she thinks that next time he lingers like that that I should offer him a drink and try to chat with him, and that if that went well that I should try to make a sexual advance toward him (I had been lamenting to her earlier that it has been an extremely long time for me). She doesn’t know about DBing so I can’t say I think it’s great advice, but there’s a part of me that thinks it isn’t terrible advice. It obviously doesn’t align with my DB work so I likely won’t do it. I’d hate to back track on the progress I’ve made. I think she feels impatient on my behalf, and she feels I have nothing to lose and that if he refused my advances at this point then I’d know he was totally gone. I don’t know if I agree with that or not, but it’s interesting to think about.
I get how you are feeling Hope and how tempting it is to do what she suggests. I think offering him a drink (the way one would offer a neighbour if they dropped by) is perfectly fine. The sexual advances, however, would send the wrong message, IMO. It would smack of desperation and also fully cement you as Plan B. I think either response would be difficult for you to deal with so I wouldn’t put myself through it, if I were you. If he rejects you, you end up feeling crappy about yourself and you look less attractive to him. But what if he doesn’t reject you, you ML and then he carries on the next day as if nothing has changed between you. You also end up feeling rejected and also mad at yourself for giving up on the progress that you have already made detaching. Impatience is the number one enemy of LBSs. It has killed many people’s chances to R. Don’t give into it. Detach, detach, detach... for you. There is light at the end of the tunnel. At the very least, you will get you back. (((HUGS)))
Hi Hope,
I agree with DV6 on not trying to use sex.
AS said people want what they can't have. You are the prize, don't let him have anything freely. With all this, wouldn't you want him to earn his way back?
You're right that your friend doesn't know about the DB process so kissing and making up like having sex won't work here.
Thank you both for the perspective. I know deep down that it wouldn’t be the right thing to do, but the impatient mind does wander. I think the reason she thought of it was what she was witnessing with him lingering around, seemingly waiting for something to be said or done. She asked if he does that frequently when it’s just the 2 of us. Yes, he does. And I think I do get tempted to act because he does often give the impression that he is waiting for me to do or say something. I might be imagining that, or even if it is the case, imagining that if I did say or do something, it would have a positive result. It hasn’t thus far! Thank you all for the reality check. I’ll continue as I have been, detaching and being patient.
Hi Hope
I am with DV and Adam. By all means offer him a drink. Chat and be friendly. DB'g isn't just about detaching. It is also about becoming the best version of you (i hate that phrase) and the best version of you is a confident, attractive Hope who doesn't let her H's mood effect her. Offer him a drink. It is what a confident attractive Hope would do.
As for sexual advances, leave him to that. When it comes to our sitchs (and I would say this to you if you were a man) is it is our job as the LBS to be attractive. It is their job to make the advances.
H and I don't talk about our sitch to anyone who is connected to us through the children. No netball friends parents. No football friends parents and no parents we know through the schools. Some people know but most don't. Those that know will never ask. It is an elephant in the room. We let the elephant be. No-one will ever actually ask you about it. We are all too polite (or is that just the British?!?!).
You are doing great Hope. We are pulling for you.
Thank you FS, for the perspective and for the kind words. And that’s good for me to remember; that this isn’t all about detaching all the time. I feel like I went so far in the other direction for so long that now I’m going all in with detaching. I’ve been going to extremes and am still struggling to find the balance.
I also don’t speak with anyone who I know through my daughter about my sitch. I’d like to assume that my husband doesn’t either, but we didn’t really discuss it specifically. It’s a 180 for me to not try to find out and control what he does or doesn’t say, so I’m going with letting it go and hoping he will hold that line with people in our daughters sphere. It is absolutely possible that people might know and just not say anything, and id like to hope people would be polite enough not to question me if they did know. For me ( and my control issues haha) I mostly just want to know exactly who knows and who doesn’t. But letting go of worrying about that is worth the small amount of mental freedom.
I had a hiccup with H this evening and I’m having lots of mixed feelings. Our daughter(3) asked him to come to her soccer practice to watch her (it’s in the middle of the weekday afternoon) and he got excited and said maybe he’d try to take her sometime. This triggered me because a) he’d never have taken off work for that before he moved out, and b) I didn’t like that he worded it that way; that he’d take her himself as opposed to meeting us there and coming to watch. I reacted poorly and showed my feelings a bit more than I’d like, and he was confused and didn’t understand why I was upset. I explained and he apologized but I was feeling like he didn’t really get it and was just pacifying me (old pattern between us) and I was annoyed. Just now before he left he brought it up and asked if I felt ok about it (180 for him to bring up an issue, he’s typically a major under-the-rug guy) and we talked about it some. I told him what I had been feeling but that I realized that I was having expectations from him that were unrealistic at this point. I told him that I appreciated his apologizing (which is also a 180 for him, he is not an apologizer) and that I appreciate his think h about it, and that I acknowledge that I may have over reacted. I suppose it went quite well, when all is said and done. It’s just very unnerving to have any kind of negativity between us arise. It all feels so tenuous, and I get scared any time we have any tension or a negative exchange. I know how irrational and unrealistic it is, but I put immense pressure on myself to avoid having any negative feelings around him, for fear of scaring him off further. It’s painful to tho k that for me, getting through that with him the way we did feels like a win and a step in the right direction, and to him it may just be a reminder of why he left. But I am human, and I do have feelings and I know I can’t ramp them all down all the time. It’s just scary to be human around him at the moment, I suppose.
Anyway, I hope I handled it all ok. I am sitting here torn over whether I should text him to reiterate my apology for over reacting, or if that would be too pursuant and I should just leave it as is. UGH. THIS. IS. SO. HARD.
That would have triggered me too. It's interesting seeing you wrestle with your control issues, that sounds very much like my H's behaviour over the years. It's taken BD for me to see why these control issues exist and to have some empathy for my H. It's ok to have negative reactions and to be triggered, as long as it gets repaired. Your H sounds like he dealt with it well and was understanding and did his side of the repair. I don't think a friendly text would hurt either way, as long as it's 'sorry for over-reacting earlier' and then continuing onto another topic. Don't fret about it too much, having a problem and then repairing is healthier than fake positive interactions all the time I think.
I would examine your motivations, Hope. Are you wanting to apologize again because you need him to tell you it is okay, again, and offer some more reassurance? Are you fearful that things are broken, and wanting to control how he feels about the interaction - making sure he feels okay about it all, and isn't bearing a grudge? (I mention this only from my own experience - when I am persistent with apologies it is often about soothing my own anxiety, or wanting a response from the other person to make me feel better, rather than a genuine and unselfish wish to repair or make amends.) It sounds like you both covered things fully in your conversation. Maybe the art to learn - for both of us - is in letting go and letting what has been repaired heal and move into the past.
Yes, my use of control to soothe my anxieties is a big part of what my husband took issue with in our marriage. And yes, hand in hand with that goes over apologizing and checking in after a hiccup to make sure everything is ok with my H. I came to the conclusion even before reading your response Alison, that my intentions with wanting to further apologize weren't completely pure---it was partly a desire to manage the situation and my anxiety around how he might be feeling, so I didn't text him.
Saw him again last night and he appeared to have let it go. The evening was fine, I had dinner with H and our D3 before leaving for the rest of the evening. Then at our daughter's bedtime we had another small hiccup (again!?) i was frustrated with 3 year old's bed time antics and was feeling particularly unsupported by H. I swallow a lot of those moments these days, but this time I commented on it and he got a bit defensive. We did, however, talk it through and repair it pretty quickly (a new and very nice addition to the way we relate to each other). After we had talked it through, he sat down next to me to show me a picture on his phone.
For a moment he looked at me, and I looked at him and it felt like a MOMENT, like something was about to happen or be said, and then he patted me on the back. I don't know what that was. On his way out the door he told me that he thinks I'm a phenomenal parent, which was very kind. I thanked him for saying that, and for talking things through with me. He said no problem, and stumbled over his words and said that he wants to...be good co-parents. UGH. As much as I try, those kind of comments just knock me down. It was all such a roller coaster over such a short period, and I was more upset than I have been in a while after he left. I don't know what to make of any of it (what else is new??)
I fell all keyed up, so I'm trying to focus on managing my anxiety today, and on going into Mothers Day free of any expectations, which is proving to be surprisingly easy.
Well, it’s Mother’s Day. It’s making me feel sadder and more lonely than I expected, but I’m trying to have those feelings be ok and accept them so that hopefully they will pass. Whether they do or not, I’m looking forward to having a nice day with my daughter. Just a bit nervous to go it and see all the little families out and about, because in this moment I know it’s going to hurt.
When I got home last night my H had made (with the help of my daughter) a very sweet Mother’s Day card, with one of our kind of inside jokes on it. I’m touched and it makes me happy for sure, but it also makes me miss him and miss what I always thought this day would be like, with the three of us doing fun things together. I feel sad, but it’s ok that I do. I will keep my focus on my daughter, and I’m having as relaxing a day as possible with her.
Well, it’s Mother’s Day. It’s making me feel sadder and more lonely than I expected, but I’m trying to have those feelings be ok and accept them so that hopefully they will pass. Whether they do or not, I’m looking forward to having a nice day with my daughter. Just a bit nervous to go it and see all the little families out and about, because in this moment I know it’s going to hurt.
Very sorry you are having a down day, I hope you enjoyed your time with D. Regarding all the other happy little families- you'd be surprised how many of those have either gone through, are going through or will go through the same thing you are.
That’s very true AS, and good to keep in mind for a variety of reasons.
How are you doing today Hope?
Mother's day is different in the UK - it was back in March, but it was a painful day for me too. H didn't really do anything, but because I didn't expect him to I bought myself a fairly fancy piece of jewellery and opened it on the day. It was painful, but it was okay.
Just seeing families full stop is very hard for me sometimes. The first few months it was almost unbearable. But it is good to remember that underneath the surface many, many families have problems and struggles and heartbreaks. If not right now, then they will in the future. Nobody gets out of life or out of families unscathed. I look back at previous blithe, unaware, unappreciative dilly and think how much she had to learn, and I look at young families and see how much they will suffer and learn in the future, and I sweat the small stuff of life a LOT less. Maybe it's good that you're learning these lessons earlier in life and in your daughter's life. This stuff is so hard, but we will come out of better people xx
I'm having lots of conflicting thoughts about my sitch these last few days. In some ways I do feel my H coming closer to me, but in a lot of ways those moments that used to give me hope just feel meaningless at this point. Those little things that in the recent past felt like signs of hope do not feel that way right now. It feels like we are just back to the plateau. I have continued to distance myself from him as much as I can while remaining warm and open. My therapist told me that at this point she feels like His ceaing of the divorce talk has less to do with him reconsidering us, and more to do with his inertia/paralysis around difficult logistical things (ie filing for divorce) combined with his desire to maintain a safely distant attachment/relationship with me (ie cake eating). And it is entirely possible that she is right and that is all this is. Once again I find myself at a point where if that IS all this is, I don't want to be a part of it. if he is trying to have a half marriage with me, I don't want to give that to him. At the same time, I can't completely silence the tiny voice that keeps telling me "just wait, he is warming up to you." UGH.
H and I were talking about an upcoming Saturday on which our daughter has 2 birthday parties to attend, one whose mom is a friend of mine, and another for the child of his oldest,closest friend. When we discussed the logistics he suggested that we all go to both. This is significant because aside from the suggestion that we all spend the day together, he is inviting me to a social event with all of his closest friends. That hasn't happened since we separated a year ago. I was shocked, but played it off super casually and agreed that would be nice for our daughter. In my head, it felt like it must be a step forward, for him to want to include me with his friends after all this time.
But the more I think about it, I have doubts. Doubts about whether I should go, and doubts about whether or not his inviting me is meaningful in any way. Going would be a bit nerve wracking for me, especially since there would surely be questions from the wives as to the meaning of my presence after all this time. Of course, if this would be a step toward recombining our lives, I would have to face that kind of awkwardness, and would be fine doing so. But part of me can't imagine why I'd put myself in that position without knowing there is a reason to do so.
Do I go, on the off chance that my H is including me for a material reason (ie to experiment with how it feels to have me there, to slowly reintroduce me into his life)? Or do I decline, on the more likely chance that it's for no reason at all (ie just a casual invite that could possibly end in some serious cake eating in which I spend the afternoon chasing after our daughter and fielding awkward questions I can't answer, while he has a beer with his buddies.) ?
My suggestion would be to put out of your mind any speculation you have as to his motivations for inviting you. You'll never know. He might not know himself. And ignore anything you might have told yourself about what will happen while you're there. The wives might not ask you anything at all. In that situation, I wouldn't dream of asking. There's a lot of mind-reading and future-predicting going on in those posts. It is a kind of control - wanting to choose what you do in order to get the best possible reaction from your H.
Instead, have a think about yourself and your daughter. Do you want to go? Would it be fun, just on its own terms? If not fun, would it be of benefit to your daughter to have you there? Those seem like the only factors to take into account when you make your decision.
Thanks Alison-- I totally agree. I've tried thinking about it as a separate entity, ie would I enjoy myself and would it benefit my daughter for me to go. I'm honestly unsure about both. Would I have a good time? Potentially it could just be a fun time, and I always enjoy seeing my daughter have fun. i have also missed sociializing with this group, they had become my friends and I was sad to lose them. But, I remember in a recent post of mine FlySolo mentioned that the British tend to be too polite to bring up such a thing in a social setting. Well, I won't generalize Californians, but I will say that I'm certain that these women would ask me, with pure intentions, what is going on between H and I. There would definitely be a certain amount of awkwardness/nervousness/discomfort for me, at least in the beginning. And it may stir up some difficult emotions for me, for better or for worse.
I also have a hard time answering in terms of my daughter. On the one hand, she loves it when we are all together, of course. But, if we are in fact getting a divorce, sometimes I wonder if it's a disservice to her to not allow for these opportunities for her to get used to doing things separately on most occasions. Of course there will be special events we will all spend together, but they will become much fewer and farther between if H and I divorce.
I agree that I am trying to have a bit of control to soothe myself yet again, but in this case I'm not so much trying to decide what would get the best reaction from H. It is more that I am trying to decide whether the potential benefits of my going outweigh the potential drawbacks, and I am trying to do some (fruitless)mind reading to make that decision.
I guess this is the real issue-- all things pertaining to H aside, I can't even tell if I want to go/think it's best for D3 or for me.
Ah yes - there may be cultural differences at play here! I'd be pretty shocked and horrified to be asked a question like that at a children's party - even by a quite close friend - but you know your social setting best.
I think if you're certain you're going to be asked questions like that, then you could opt not to go, or think of some answers in advance. "We're doing what works for us,' or something like that?
I know what you mean about not wanting to give your daughter the wrong idea. But she's very young, right? So she probably won't remember? Even in marriages that are intact and working well, sometimes both parents go, sometimes just one parent, sometimes a grandparent, depending on working and childcare arrangements, right?
Haven't been here in some time, as I've been super busy and a bit overwhelmed with life's logistics. I'm finally in a place where I can see my future for what it likely is (single motherhood) and while I'm feeling extremely overwhelmed by what that means for me and my daughter, I'm finally facing it head on and trying to prepare myself. I wish I had taken the advice my best friend gave me and done so months ago just in case, but I just wasn't ready at the time. My financial situation is frightening and I am facing the fact that I have to go back to work for the first time in almost 4 years. I don't take issue with that per se; I am certainly not above being a working parent and feel lucky that I got to be at home with my daughter as long as I have been. It's just all very daunting in regards to job searching, dealing with child care and financial pressure. I know I can do it, I'm just honest about the fact that I really don't want to have to.
I find myself having my first real thoughts of just wanting to be done with my marriage situation. In the past few weeks my H has been increasingly friendly and seeking my attention/seeking conversation with me and has also shown a BIG uptick in making small gestures of physical contact with me. I have started tracking it a bit just to observe and it is a very new and noticeable part of this.
It certainly means SOMETHING, but I don't pretend to have any idea what it might mean, and I spend less time than expected trying to figure that out, because I know how pointless that would be. While a small part of me is encouraged by these "positive" changes, a bigger part of me is a bit annoyed, even angered by it.
Where I land with it is that if it means anything other than some part of him having romantic feelings toward me then honestly that pisses me the [censored] off. It makes me feel like I'm being messed with,or at least not considered at all, and that makes me feel angry towards him. He was very careful not to be physically affectionate with me for a long time, and if his feelings about our marriage haven't changed at least a tiny bit, then I guess I feel he should still be just as careful.
Sorry for the long post! H and I had another painful, confusing R talk. I am feeling really sad and frustrated, mainly because of the timing and way it came about. I think I really blew all the ground I had gained and I'm feeling really low about it.
My H and I had been at a limbo plateau for awhile, and he had been increasingly chatty, seeking my attention and even touching me a lot. As I expressed, I was hesitantly hopeful about it, but also frustrated because it felt a lot like cake eating on his part. On Tuesday when he came to see our daughter, he said he was going to take her to his house rahter than making dinner for her here. It was the first time in a long time he'd done that (for weeks now he'd been making or bringing dinner, texting me to ask what I might want to eat, etc) so that triggered me, I was hurt and I lost my cool a little bit, and ended up saying I felt like he was up to something and playing games. i wince when I think of it now, I was in a relatively good position and I blew it because i could no longer control my pent up feelings. Of course that went over poorly, he was upset because he felt wrongly accused. We talked about it afterward and smoothed it out, but we were both still defensive.
on Thursday he didn't text before he came and he planned to take our daughter out again. He was acting colder and more formal toward me again. We got into a silly argument over a parenting disagreement. At one point he said 'you and I just don't go together well" and that REALLY hurt and triggered me, and I said "if you really feel that way then you should hurry up and divorce me already." Again, completely cringing and sick to my stomach that I said that.
After we put our daughter to bed, he said that he felt that by his inaction around making the divorce happen that he thins he has been giving me the wrong idea. That he still wants a divorce and that it is happening soon. He said he thinks that I probably feel like he's been having his cake and eating it too (!!!) and asked if I feel like he "wants me to want him". I somewhat confirmed what he was saying, but also wanted to maintain some ground and told him that I hadn't gotten the wrong idea and hadn't thought it all meant anything had changed, but that I did feel like we needed some boundaries around our relationship. I told him that the way I see it, we have rediscovered a lot of the good parts of our relationship and have gotten along well and that it felt a bit like a half marriage. I said that it has been nice, but that it isn't enough for me, and that it looks to me like all the good stuff is still there between us after all, and that it makes me sad that he doesn't see it that way, but that I accept it.
He semi acknowledged that what I've been seeing between us has been happening, but also said that he thought that everything was just going smoothly and that we were friends and really good coparents. I told him that is not what is happening, because we are married but not participating in the marriage, so we can't be just friends and coparents. He understood. At one point I lost my train of thought for a moment and he said "were you about to tell me that you are seeing someone?" I didnt confirm nor deny and just kind of shrugged it off.
Then he started asking me the same things he has always asked during R talks: he asked me how,after having been so "cold and distant and acting like I hated him" could I still have these complex emotions about our marriage. I replied that I have explained before (that I was in a lot of pain at the time and said a lot of things I did not mean out of fear for our marriage) and that I will gladly explain again if he wanted/needed me to. He said he remembered my response but that he just doesn't believe my words. I validated a bunch.
Then he asked why I couldn't have said all of this sooner, as if to say that if only I had tried to fix this sooner it could have been fixed. I gently reminded him (as I have every time hes asked this) that I had tried a few months after he moved out--- he stopped me and said "oh yeah, I remember I told you that I wasn't there yet" and that I had tried again a few months ago, in our last R talk. He responded that he remembered our last talk in which I had asked him to give our marriage another try. He said that he remembered that I hadn't cried very much during that conversation and that stood out to him because I am a big crier and that he has seen me cry about much smaller things. I gently explained that I know that sometimes my crying is distracting to him and that i had been nervous to discuss our marriage with him at that time, and that I had tried really hard not to cry during it so as to not dilute my words. We talked about our daughter and he cried a little, and we talked about setting more boundaries for our relationship, and that it would be better if hep spends less time here/around me and just takes our daughter elsewhere.
I feel simultaneously that it needed to happen, and also really sad and scared about these new boundaries and what they will mean. I'm really focused on letting go of all my expectations and just taking what comes. I'm scared and really sad.I had wanted to have the conversation about boundaries on my terms, and when he was in a positive headspace, and I'm disappointed because I feel I blew that. My best friend, who is the only one who knows about my DBing and is very much onboard, said that she feels like it was all actually good progress with him in terms of our marriage. I don't know what to make of it all, as it was a confusing conversation. Any insight would be appreciated
It's very hard Hope, isn't it? Especially as it seems that from day to day you and your H have been getting on well and enjoying the small time you spend together as a family. He probably is cake-eating a bit - but then perhaps you've been enjoying those little dips into married life too? I've had a similar situation going on and I know how difficult it is not to demand more, and to know you probably should refuse to accept the crumbs on offer in fear of it hastening the divorce.
I think you can forgive yourself for not handling this conversation perfectly. It sounds like he's not cutting you much slack - he doesn't like it when you cry, but he interprets you not crying in negative ways? He likes what you're saying, but doesn't believe it, yet wishes you had said it earlier, yet didn't listen to you or want to hear it when you did say it earlier? The one thing I have learned so far is that you can't 'win' with a person who is not committed to the marriage and not fundamentally disposed to giving you the benefit of the doubt and interpreting your words and actions in a loving lens. And you can't do anything to get him into that position.
It might be now your daughter is a little older it would benefit him to do more of her care on his own in his own place, and benefit you to have that space. And certainly benefit your H and his parenting skills - whether you R or not, he needs to have the confidence and experience in tending to her needs and finding his way as a parent alone.
I think that comment where he asked you if you felt like he wanted you to want him was pure, 100% temp checking, as was his enquiry about him wanting to know if you were seeing someone else. I might have been pretty angry about that in your position. Perhaps some distance and privacy - and a boundary where he can't turn up at your home without giving you some notice or making a prior arrangement - would help him to have a bit more respect. He knows, I think, that you're waiting for him and that you do still want him, and there's probably a part of him quite comfortable with that because it gives him a very nice safety net of security.
I think the only thing you can do is validate your feelings, share your own if he is in a respectful place and willing to listen to them, and agree to what he wants if it is reasonable. I think it is reasonable that he wants to care for his daughter on his own in his own home now and again. It stinks, but unless you have reason to consider him unfit or abusive, that is better for both of them and for you too, in the long run. It might also be a way to get him to think of yours and his relationship as man and wife, aside from your interactions as parents. He's interacting with you as a mother, and not as a wife. That's no bad thing. But perhaps once there's more space, he will start to miss his wife. It's also reasonable for you to want some notice before he comes to your home, no turning up for friendly family meals on spec - and reasonable for you to want a regular arrangement.
Thank you Alison. You’re right; the things he said confuse me and feel like a no win. And it does make me angry. It’s like he’s saying that I haven’t been vulnerable enough in discussing my feelings about all if this, except that I definitely was for a while, and when I have been vulnerable about it he has completely rejected me. It feels like I’m watching him try not to want our marriage. It’s gut wrenching and so frustrating.
And it is very hard feeling like we were getting along so well and having such a nice time together, and that it got blown up in such a negative way. I’d hoped to set boundaries around it on a positive note, not after an argument.
I should clarify one thing: we do have a regular arrangement for his visits with our daughter, and he never comes over outside of that. It’s just that for a while he was texting me before his arrival to make dinner plans, and when he stopped doing that his week and just shows up at his arranged time it felt like a shift back into coldness.
I was just telling my best friend all about the conversation I had with my H. She said it sounds like he is trying to blame his confusion on me. I think she is completely right. He is trying to make it out that I have been inconsistent, inauthentic and dishonest, and none of that is true. He says I’m too emotional, but then I wasn’t emotional enough during our precious marriage talk. He wishes I’d told him my feelings sooner, but when I do he says he doesn’t believe my words. As you said Alison, he is only allowing himself to see me through a negative lens, in which I’m not being loving or authentic or vulnerable, because if he admits that I AM being all of those things then he is out of excuses for what he is doing. I have done everything I could do, including being extremely patient for a long time. He wants there to be something that I’M doing or not doing that is causing his inability to make a move. He wants his confusion and inner conflict to my fault. But I have not been confusing or dishonest or inauthentic or cold. I’ve been consistent and clear and honest and vulnerable on multiple occasions. I keep thinking that he wants a reason to turn back toward me and our marriage, but now I’m wondering if it’s just the opposite. Perhaps he wants a reason to continue not to. It’s a heart breaking possibility, and one I will never understand.
I feel like I need to do LRT at this point. I’m a little confused by it though, because when i read what it consists of, I feel like I’ve already been doing it...?
There's work for both of you to do before there can be a R. And you are doing your work, and he isn't doing his and wondering why an R still doesn't feel possible for him. I think my H is in the same position and I want to shake him sometimes. I have exhausted every single possible technique - most of them crazy unhealthy - to make him realise this. But it isn't possible. I think there's a laws of physics to this. And LRT is where I am at - except I am considering it not a technique but as a way of ending the relationship. I don't want to be with someone, or wait for someone, as unhealthy as H. It hurts and it stinks. As far as I understand it, LRT involves acting as if you are single and getting on with your life. It means becoming single in your mind and heart. It's a process. Are there small practical steps you can take over the next few days to get you there?
I think a good start would be going dark to whatever extent that’s possible with a young child involved.
I will continue to leave when he gets here, unless he plans to take our daughter elsewhere.
I already avoid texting him unless he texts me about our daughter.
Maybe I need to do better at truly limiting small talk when he tries to engage me? I don’t want to be rude or cold because than I come across as sulking and I don’t want that. I just want to disengage as far as I can. I’ve never been good at being distant while not appearing sulky so I need to figure that out.
Any other tips?
I think he is trying to initiate small talk, it's a good idea to always have somewhere to go or be. Take advantage of the childfree time, have some GAL plans each and every time (even if it means just going to the cinema or reading in a bookshop or something) and have your coat on and bag ready when he comes to the door. 'Hello H. I have some things to do today so I am going to leave you do it. Lunch for Baby is on the stove. See you at 5!' and then breeze out in a gale of perfume and with a cheery wave.
Even better if he takes your daughter to his own place, and you just have her ready with her things, take her to the door when he knocks on it, give him any information he needs, then get back in the house. You can be brisk and friendly. 'Hello, H. Baby has been looking forward to seeing you. Change of clothes in her bag, and she had a late breakfast today so might not want her lunch at the usual time. Have a lovely afternoon!' *close door*
I think it is going to be impossible to really go dark if he's in your space and you'll both fall into old habits of playing happy families then resenting each other for it if it continues too long. Ask me know I know this...
Yes, I think you’re right. We’ve been playing happy family for a long time now. Yes, a lot of that falls to him as the leaving party. Yes, a lot of that was for our daughter as I badly do not want to disrupt her young life. But a lot of it falls to me as well. I did it for so long because it felt good, and because for a long time I genuinely thought that’s what would bring my husband back to us. That is clearly not the case, and it took me quite some time to see that. This step away from that will be very difficult and sad for me, but I know it’s for the best for us no matter what direction this goes in.
I get it. H has been coming to the house to see the children. He comes after work, has his tea (which I cook) then sits and either spends some time with the kids, or does a little housework with me - cleaning up after tea - or messes about on his computer - for a couple of hours. We fell into a pattern of him doing this two or three nights a week. He rarely has Youngest at his house, and Eldest has never been there. He will take Youngest out at the weekend now and again, but never Eldest. It's really really hard. I allow it because I miss him and I want to see him and I want him to see me and my changes. Which is a basic DBing error. And then I resent it because it feels really humiliating to cook for him and make him a coffee then wave him away at the door. He's not really pulling his weight with the kids. I could demand that - demand that he see Youngest at his house, and do the school uniform ironing and homework and all the other domestic drudge he is opting out of. And he'd do it too, I know he would. Then I'd never see him at all. And that would be really really hard on me. I do need to do that though. Things have taken a bit of a turn for the worse between us in this past couple of weeks - after a couple of months of this fairly stable and cordial routine. And it was because my feelings of resentment were growing and growing and he didn't seem to appreciate the efforts I was making to help him feel supported and welcome at a really difficult time in his career. It was messed up.
Yes, a month or two ago when I realized that I was still routinely cooking dinner for my H and our daughter when he came here I was suddenly furious about it and stopped it immediately. My H would text before he arrived to ask if I was cooking or if he should take care of dinner and I started responding that he should take care of it each and every time. I never announced that I would no longer cook dinner on his nights as a parent, I just stopped doing it.
We are at similar stages in this way. we both realize that we have been allowing for the happy family routine because it makes us feel good and it allows us to see our husbands and makes an opportunity for them to see our changes. And now we have both grown resentful of the cake eating that has allowed. We have also both let our resentment get the best of us and done things that do not jive with DBing (you giving yours and ultimatum and me telling mine to hurry up and divorce me already). It's interesting to notice.
It's a very confusing combination of feelings, isn't it? On the one hand I feel so strongly like yelling to him "if you are going to go just GO". (I suppose I did just that last week, and I regret it) On the other hand I'm so afraid that if I really set these boundaries and go dark I will have given up too soon, and pushed him away just as he began to inch back toward me.
My H is away on a fishing trip with a close friend of his. I remember las time he went on this very same trip with the very same friend, I imagined the two of them having this heart to heart in which my H would reveal his inner conflict and indecision and his friend would guide him back to our family. I don't have that daydream this time around. We won't see him until he gets later this week. I am trying to remain strong and hold on to my conviction to go dark. I am extremely anxious and feeling incredibly sad that it's come to this after all this time. I want to shake him and say "Just STOP THIS already and let go of the past." Of course, I won't. I am afraid that we will slip right back into limbo, and equally afraid that we won't and that he will move forward with divorce.
Yes, I think we're in exactly the same place. I am sorry you are where I am, because it is awful, but knowing there's someone else treading the same path makes it feel like less of a unique catastrophe and more of a painful part of what is normal in these situations, if you see what I mean.
I don't think H would ever proceed towards divorce. Limbo suits him. He's as afraid as I am. I think I'm more afraid of things staying the same between us than I am of getting divorced right now, which feels a bit scary to admit.
I suppose that's why it's called limbo, because nobody wants to move in either direction because the thought of D is too scary for both people and R is too scary for the WAS...
I no longer have fantasies of H walking back in the door saying he wants to come back. I think if he did I would tell him to walk back out and work on himself first.
My attraction to divorce is to end the uncertainty. But it wouldn't turn off the feelings, and people carry on sleeping with each other and fighting each other and messing about with each other's lives and finances even after divorce, so it isn't like a death. There's no way out but through.
I often wish that my H could, at the very least, acknowledge that he too is afraid of a divorce, rather than insisting there are other reasons it hasn't happened as of yet. But I suppose if he had the self awareness and vulnerability, and felt safe enough to admit those things, than we probably wouldn't be where we are...
Yes, that's very true! If they could have been honest enough with us then we wouldn't have been BDed. The lack of safety still flummoxes me, how can you be afraid of your wife? Yet my H is, somehow, it's very, very odd.