Wondering if anyone here is tried the ATTRACTION method of getting one'e walkaway spouse back.
Is that even possible?
I have followed many of the threads here and have bought and read Divorce Remedy so I am to speed with all described (GAL, 180s, Detach etc)
Just wondering if anyone has thrown attraction into the mix.
I am trying anything I can but it seems impossible to sway here, months after BD.
This is something I've been thinking about.
I know that convincing, manipulating, arguing, reminding of the good times, giving ultimatums, telling and acting and showing how unhappy I am, begging, demanding - all of that stuff - does not work. If it was going to work, it would have done because I've tried it HARD for a long time.
I read somewhere that the greatest gift you can offer to a partner is taking care of your own spiritual, physical and emotional needs, so you can be their intimate companion, but not a burden. I've been really bad at doing that, so I am working on that. I hope it will attract him, but I'm doing it because I have to, and because I want to be happy.
I think a lot of the 180s should be about supporting yourself, correcting your flaws, living your best life, and hoping that your spouse will notice and get interested, but doing them mainly for yourself. Taking the pressure off them to meet your needs, when they are probably struggling and suffering themselves.
Wondering if anyone here is tried the ATTRACTION method of getting one'e walkaway spouse back.
Is that even possible?
I have followed many of the threads here and have bought and read Divorce Remedy so I am to speed with all described (GAL, 180s, Detach etc)
Just wondering if anyone has thrown attraction into the mix.
I am trying anything I can but it seems impossible to sway here, months after BD.
I'm not sure if you just mean attracting them back in general or if you are referring to some specific program out there, but the idea of DB'ing is to give your spouse time and space while working on yourself and making yourself more appealing and attractive. You do 180's on bad behavior. You get off the couch, get out and GAL. You get back in shape, improve your wardrobe, wear cologne/ perfume, be the best parent to your kids, etc. Basically you improve yourself wherever possible. The problem is most LBS's think they can do this for a few days or weeks and bring their WAS back, but once a spouse gets to the point of BD'ing and being a WAS, there simply is no quick fix. The quick fixes are months or even years behind you at that point. Now to turn things around you have months or even years of hard work ahead.
If you post more about your particular situation we can help you more!
gzabetas, we discuss attraction quite often in these sitches. And sandi is probably the biggest expert in what is attractive or not to WAW/WW.
But in general, attraction is closely related to respect. In a lot of cases the WAW has lost respect for her H. Maybe he is a SAHD (I've seen this one happen a lot). Or maybe he is suffering from depression. Or has a hard time holding down a job. Or maybe he has become a couch potato. On and on and on. The key to becoming attractive again, above and beyond dress, and looks, etc, is to regain respect. Obviously, being nicely groomed, in good shape, and dressing well can't hurt. But more important is regaining respect.
Thanks for the replies.
To add my story details.
We have been together close to 10 years. There was always an age difference, I met her when I was 39 and she was 19 in a college class we were both taking. Now I am 49 and she is 29 and I think she is re-evaluating her life choices.
I am in good shape and physique and pass for quite younger so there was never an issue there.
Also the guy she is seeing now is my age again, so I dont think that was an issue.
We had a son 4 years ago, and somewhere I dropped the ball with my share of the housework. I was worried about finances and stared studying for new IT certs. Passed my CCNA a few months back. This was my attempt at better employment to support my family. She took this as me being selfish. I hated nothing more that studying again at this age. I did it for them.
Before Xmas I got bomb dropped. And after that the same script follows that most of us here had.
Supposedly it was all bad for years and I didnt notice. All these years we were always doing things together and laughing.
Sex once a week. She told me that the sex wasnt enough. I have since checked the stats and it seems we were in normal range.
I have good days and bad days with her. Today I am facing the "alien" that most of us here see.
A psychologist she was seeing recommended working out at the gym for her,. I signed her up and paid for it,.
At that place she met many men, in good shape etc. It appears she started badmouthing me for 2 years and crying to them. I have signs she has met a guy my age there and has an affair. All this time I had no signs of unhappiness from her.
Hiding cell phones. New friends. Late nights out. Wants tattoo now. Social media chats with new boys. The works.
Honestly you can read anyone's story here and insert my name it seems.
Everything I tried to do to help her backfired. Psychologist, driving lessons, gym membership.
She told me she had checked out years ago.
I cried for a month after BD but thanks to this forum mostly I saw I was not alone. I felt like such a fool, until I read other stories here from people more intelligent than me facing the same thing.
We live in my house (PS we are in Greece) and she wanted to get my out. Thanks to posts here I didnt allow that.
She has talked to her lawyer etc. I have asked for her paperwork. She argues and fights anything where I get a sliver of dignity or a chance to see my kid. Even with all the detaching I practice it is such a rollercoaster it is killing me.
I fought to avoid the divorce, but at this point I think its unavoidable for my sanity.
Allison I made all those mistakes too. Thank God no more of that.
I really have grown spiritually, but I think she only wants to cut me down to be happy. Which I wont allow.
There is emotional baggage there for sure from her childhood. (parents always argued, absent father)
AnotherStranger, trying really hard to get out of the house,. Have a toddler and I need to take care of him and cook for the family as she is always out, so I am trying to keep the boat afloat as she is opening holes in it.
Steve85 you nailed it.
She has said she has nor more respect, trust or love for me. I do see signs of her attraction for me, not sure if it helps.
I took ownership of all my mistakes a while back and explained why some of them happened that way.
I am unfortunately unemployed for years and this killed me. I was a high paid IT engineer in the States for a Fortune 500 company and got furloughed, then the crisis in Greece hit as I was starting my family here. I never regained momentum.
Playing my last card to return to the US for a job and I wish they would follow me, but she said she wont.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
thanks for the welcome message cadet, I am familiar with these and always love seeing them.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
This is perhaps a different topic, but when I look back at the way I behaved during the last couple of years of our marriage, and in the immediate aftermath of H moving out, I find it very difficult to find myself attractive. The neediness and the lack of self respect and the behaviour that I accepted from him, and accepted from myself. It was all very ugly and there wasn't much dignity, compassion or selflessness there. No good boundaries and a lot of manipulation and game playing - not because I am a terrible person, but because I was miserable and scared and trying to get him to change.
As the weeks pass - and I am still very early days - and I work on being unselfish and boundaried and taking care of my own fear rather than expecting H to do it for me, I am finding myself more attractive and likeable and this means I feel more self respect, and am less tolerant of disrespect from H, and less tolerant of the disrespectful behaviour I've shown to him. It is a work in progress but I feel less ashamed of myself. I have no idea if that will have an affect on him, if he notices or if he sees it the same way. But I am feeling like I am a person who I'd want to spend time with, and that makes me feel a tiny bit less desperate for his approval. Which perhaps means he feels less burdened and smothered by my company. I don't know.
I think these things are related to each other.
AnotherStander sorry I got a typo in your name earlier but cant find an edit option for the posts.
Allison a lot of what you describe comes back to our dignity and self worth and what we will allow.
I remember an old coworker told me once "We teach people how to treat us"
Thanks for those links Ready2Change. I have seen the posted before and I always find them true.
Over the past 4 months since BD I have corrected everything she had mentioned as the problem areas.
But recently new stuff is piling up, like little petty things. So I almost want to say "You are really going to break our family , cause 5 years ago I didnt have my cell phone with me when you called etc..."
That determination in their eyes that even if we walk on water and heal the sick it still wont matter, kills me.
As far as attraction things I changed are. (some are from the DR book and this forum as well as online)
I talk less, (more mystery).
I lower my voice.
Listen more and end conversations first.
I don't speak negatively of others.
Actually slowing down and sometimes doing nothing (as recommended) helps.
W"bla bla bla 5 years ago bla bla"
H"I am sorry. I can't change the past."
Thats it Ready2Change. Short and simple.
Taking a step back and seeing her as a separate human being (this is where detachment helps)
I am noticing her having some Anger Management issues.
It seems we are the cause and target of all that anger (from their POV at least)
Giving birth to our child was all she wanted and a year after that she was depressed and angry.
Before that she wanted us to be married in our own home. Did that, unhappy again.
Looking back, no matter what I did, she felt there was always something missing.
The psychologist I paid didnt fix that, I cant. I wonder if she will ever come out of the funk and see that only she can make her self happy.
I really tried to give her so much happiness and it was never enough.
It will be interesting to see how much happiness she will find out there in the real world in her separate way, which I hope doesn't happen, but may be coming our way.
We have been together close to 10 years. There was always an age difference, I met her when I was 39 and she was 19 in a college class we were both taking. Now I am 49 and she is 29 and I think she is re-evaluating her life choices.
Sometimes when a person gets in a serious R at a young age they later they start wondering if they may have "missed out on something". There may be some of that going on with her. These days May-December relationships are not that unusual (I'm in one myself) so I don't think the age difference has anything to do with it. She certainly did the wrong thing in jumping right into another R though.
We had a son 4 years ago, and somewhere I dropped the ball with my share of the housework. I was worried about finances and stared studying for new IT certs. Passed my CCNA a few months back. This was my attempt at better employment to support my family. She took this as me being selfish. I hated nothing more that studying again at this age. I did it for them.
We hear this fairly often here. The H does something that takes him away from home a lot and he feels it must be done "for the family", but the W feels alone and abandoned and harbors resentment over it. The H doesn't understand why she feels that way since to him he thinks it should be "obvious" he's doing it for the family and not himself. The problem is she needs emotional support and if she's not getting it then her "emotional bank account" drains down to zero. Then she's left feeling alone and empty and starts looking elsewhere for that support she's missing.
Before Xmas I got bomb dropped. And after that the same script follows that most of us here had.
Supposedly it was all bad for years and I didnt notice. All these years we were always doing things together and laughing.
That doesn't mean she was happy though. Don't just discount everything she says as rewriting history. There could be some valid reasons you got BD'd, you need to try and explore them and see what you can do differently.
Sex once a week. She told me that the sex wasnt enough. I have since checked the stats and it seems we were in normal range.
Unequal sex drives can lead to problems. "Normal" for you may be "not enough" for her. It reminds me of a Woody Allen movie where a couple is being interviewed about their marital problems and the husband says "we almost never have sex, I practically have to beg just to get it once or twice a week" and the woman says "oh yes we have a very active sex life, once or twice a week!"
Everything I tried to do to help her backfired. Psychologist, driving lessons, gym membership.
So consider this, if she felt emotionally empty inside because of your lack of attention, then do you think buying her a bunch of stuff is the answer? You can't "bribe" her back. You can't "nice" her back and you can't "mean" her back. What you CAN do is change YOU. Work on YOU, become the spouse only a fool would leave and if she sees real changes over a long period of time THEN she may be attracted back.
We live in my house (PS we are in Greece) and she wanted to get my out. Thanks to posts here I didnt allow that.
Good.
AnotherStander sorry I got a typo in your name earlier but cant find an edit option for the posts.
It's no problem! The edit function is only there for a few minutes after you post, so if you come back later it will be gone.
Over the past 4 months since BD I have corrected everything she had mentioned as the problem areas.
But recently new stuff is piling up, like little petty things. So I almost want to say "You are really going to break our family , cause 5 years ago I didnt have my cell phone with me when you called etc..."
This is pretty typical, a WAS gives you a laundry list and you tackle them and she gives you another list and on and on it goes. You have to sort out what is worth working on and what is just spew. Remember this is about making yourself a better person, not satisfying her list in hopes of luring her back.
AnotherStander, wow, thanks for such a detailed and well thought post.
So many nuggets of wisdom in your post. I agree with all of it.
Like you said I don't think its the age thing either since I am pretty sure the new guy is my age.
I am so glad you wrote of the typical nature of H working on projects and the wife holding it against him.
I am not glad that it happens to others, but its good to know I am not the exception.
Guilty on not noticing her emotional bank depleting. Now I see it clear as day.
You are right in that she isnt faking her re-writing history. But I do remember us laughing, and going out.
She even said that she saw me as a great friend recently. That hurt. I was demoted.. sexually.
It was the raw masculine energy that she wanted, with a confident male, not worrying about a thing.
And here I am in the midst of the Greek crisis, hearing news of home foreclosures, unemployed etc;
I should have been a better captain in this storm.
You see our relationship coincided with the entirety of the Greek crisis. I always had faith, things will get better, I will get a job eventually. But we were always dropping. Still are in fact, with no bottom to be found.
Really, all your comments I should print and carry with me as they are spot on.
And I also agree that the work I do is for myself.
The one catch-22 in my working on myself is this:
Now there is no way I can be that attention giver, hugging and loving husband she wanted cause it will be seen as a ploy. So I sit here, detaching, and getting further away...
Some kind of guy my replacement was though. Lets not forget the OM's contributions to our woes.
He has his own wife at home who is having her issues with him (from what I hear) and he consoles my wife to get some. Why doesnt he work on his own family.
The way I was raised, I never hit on another man;s woman. We may have been demoted lately as a species, but darn it some values we still hold as men.
Approaching our final days as a couple as it seems. Our lawyers and we are set to meet 1st week of April.
I tried really hard DBing my ass off and every other thing I could do, becoming a new better me. But this person is so determined to get rid of me, it is unavoidable. One ounce of that effort into our relationship would have worked wonders...
Anyway, looking back at everything she has thrown at me as being such a bad person, I give you the following example, which always comes in our fights, for your evaluation. It will show you how biased and skewed their perspectives are.
Here goes:
When we were having our baby son's birth, it was a very difficult time. The surgeon came and told me you should have never conceived, I cant believe you guys have a child. She almost didnt make it and I was worried sick outside.
She was losing alot of blood and turning white. We were in a Greek public hospital. I had to bribe doctors a lot of money to give her attention.
I was making all sorts of deals to get her blood transfusions. The nurses would be lacking and I would have to squeeze the plasma to stop it from thickening and not dripping. Every minute was critical.
I slept on the cold cement floor next to her bed, for days. No change of clothes. I was a ghost of a man and at some point
I fainted from exhaustion. She had stabilized. The put me in a bed in another room for a few hours, to lower my blood pressure.
Her mother calls me and complains why I didnt get her flowers yet. Oh right I said, I totally forgot, ran out and got her flowers.
Yesterday she told me,. "you never loved me, my mom had to tell you to get me flowers when we were giving birth"
I add this story, because many of us take a look at ourselves, following the doctrine that, for your wife to leave, there must have been your side of the problems. Go work on those. And we go to work even more on ourselves.
But sometimes it doesnt matter. We have a person who is determined to find only faults in our behaviors.
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your subject line within the thread at any time.
Ah OK, will change the thread name.Thanks
G, I'm detecting resignation and defeat in your posting. You need to understand that divorce is not a finality. It's just another stage to go through. I sense you DB'd trying to avoid divorce rather than to save yourself. Here is the thing, you need to DB for you, not for her or the MR. DB through the D. DB after the D. Keep being a man only a fool would leave and she might eventually wake up to that, even after D.
Thanks for the support Steve85.
You are correct in that its a journey with many more stops along the way.
Oh and dont get me wrong. If I have any sanity left is due to the DR book and this forum.
Its just that this week the bizzaro factor and her madness went thru the roof.
4 months of DBing and it only did good to me.
So this week she wanted me to leave the house, had her lawyer try it on me. Forced me to finally get a lawyer which thank God shut them both up pretty good. Their scare tactics failed. But only because I found a nice female lawyer who felt for my case. Thank God for that.
Then - and for anyone still reading this thread it gets really strange and juicy - I found artifacts of "magic/voodoo" around the house. Please dont think I am a fool. I surely dont beleive in this stuff but it just convinced me that my wife has really gone into a weird dark place.
I found burnt red candles with needles burning on them. Googling it, she is probably in a rough spot with her affair and trying anything to get him back. Rest assured its not for me. Maddness right?
Upon further inspection I found burnt stuff and cadles/ashes outside my bedroom balcony.!
I confronted her. She said she burned all my stuff in a ritual (old dried flowers I had given etc). I told her to get rid of it.
She also has been visiting a psychic in the next town over, which she used to say helped her.. But now I see its about her Affair and does he really love her etc. High school crushes etc stuff.
How sad....
I did realize that my wife suffers from some kind of emotional instability. BPD perhaps.
Talk to my father in law alot, who strangely enough has my back and stopped talking to her, realizing her rebellion.
So G, at this point, why are you still trying to save this? I am pretty sure that voodoo and witchcraft would be a dealbreaker for me.
I tried really hard DBing my ass off and every other thing I could do, becoming a new better me. But this person is so determined to get rid of me, it is unavoidable.
It unavoidable for now. That doesn't mean things might be different down the road, but in the short term there is no turning them around, no magic tricks to "wake them up", nothing but just letting events unfold while you give them time and space.
I give you the following example, which always comes in our fights, for your evaluation. It will show you how biased and skewed their perspectives are.
Yes that is a classic example of "rewriting history". This really is how she sees things right now. She remembers nothing but bad stuff and has forgotten all of the good. Eventually she will remember the good too, but it's going to take her a long time. All you can do is step back and be patient.
So this week she wanted me to leave the house, had her lawyer try it on me. Forced me to finally get a lawyer which thank God shut them both up pretty good. Their scare tactics failed.
Good! That's great, it's important to protect yourself, especially against a WAS that is firmly in the fog like yours.
I found artifacts of "magic/voodoo" around the house. Please dont think I am a fool. I surely dont beleive in this stuff but it just convinced me that my wife has really gone into a weird dark place.
I found burnt red candles with needles burning on them. Googling it, she is probably in a rough spot with her affair and trying anything to get him back. Rest assured its not for me. Maddness right?
Upon further inspection I found burnt stuff and cadles/ashes outside my bedroom balcony.!
Whaaaaaaaat? OK now that is something I have not heard on these forums before!
I found artifacts of "magic/voodoo" around the house. Please dont think I am a fool. I surely dont beleive in this stuff but it just convinced me that my wife has really gone into a weird dark place.
I found burnt red candles with needles burning on them. Googling it, she is probably in a rough spot with her affair and trying anything to get him back. Rest assured its not for me. Maddness right?
Believe it or not, I know someone that practiced similar magic for their own well being and manifestation of desires. They would cast attraction and love spells to try and lure certain people to them. So, I wouldn’t be surprised that a WW deep in the fog would try anything to keep things going with their affair partner.
So G, at this point, why are you still trying to save this? I am pretty sure that voodoo and witchcraft would be a dealbreaker for me.
So Steve85 you are correct. This voodoo stuff sent me over the line of trying.
Why may I still be ambivalent? The 3 year old we have together, who is going thru some hard times because of this.
And the old person I knew and fell in love with - before the "alien abduction" as is said here on this board.
I think deep down there is a person that once held me in respect and saw a future. But she is gone now.
I need to face that and mourn it and move forward.
I also believe that all these items (affair, voodoo etc) come from alot of pain inside of her.
I now know I cant fix her. I can only save what I have left inside me.
It upsets me that no matter how many red flags of concern that I raise for her sanity no one here in the real world (unlike this board which is very helpful) raises an eyebrow.
My kid will be spending many days with this "broken" person and I dont know what that can be like. She forgets to feed him, appointments etc. I have been picking up all her work since she went AWOL with girls night out, extra shifts at work, gym visits twice a day every day etc.
As many others mentioned here, I too have lost alot of weight. I even lost 2 teeth that simply broke and had to get them extracted. Eating out of one side now. I feel like Jeff Goldblum in The Fly where he is falling apart.
So 2 different psychologists she saw, and no one saw her problems.
Doing research on her symptoms I think she has BPD. I told her parents to keep an eye on her post divorce (when that happens) because I will have to move back to the States for work. They didnt seem worried either.
Darn, what does it take to let people know that the person next to you is not OK in their head.
She doesnt want my help, but I sure hope someone would step in and take care of her.
Yes that is a classic example of "rewriting history". This really is how she sees things right now. She remembers nothing but bad stuff and has forgotten all of the good. Eventually she will remember the good too, but it's going to take her a long time. All you can do is step back and be patient.
Very well put AnotherStrander. Your faith in humanity really gives me hope. For real. Thank you for that.
Believe it or not, I know someone that practiced similar magic for their own well being and manifestation of desires. They would cast attraction and love spells to try and lure certain people to them. So, I wouldn’t be surprised that a WW deep in the fog would try anything to keep things going with their affair partner.
Yup, I think the voodoo I found in my house, which was pointed out to me by neighbors, this is how naive I am, is an indication of that fog Curtis. Along with visits to psychics that she does lately.
Anything to keep that affair going. Very well said
Question to the guys out there btw. How does one approach and hug a wife when she is angry for days.
It feels like wrestling a crocodile.
All I needed was a hug she told me once.
So he next time I went in for a hug I got slapped.
Treat her like a cat.
I put my arm out, but do not go in. If she comes in for the hug she needs great. If not great. I offered.
Very good analogy Ready2Change.
I have read about the cat analogy before here in this forum. Not chasing, and letting her come to you.
As a follow-up on my case on anyone who may be reading my thread I will add this.
I called her IC. As I had mentioned on this thread earlier, I had found artifacts of witchcraft, and brought this to his attention. Will my kid be safe if we separate and she has her days with him.
Also, her IC was also mine and he knew both of us. When I had asked him last time I saw him he told me to pursue my wife as there was still hope.
I got called in to my son's preschool psychologist and got told to let me life walk away and give her the divorce.
I told her my IC said to continue reconnection efforts. She told me that doesnt make sense, because he had told my wife to leave me, she said.
So I mentioned this to our IC as well.
Of course he confirmed what we are all thinking. She lied. Once again. To everyone, about anything.
So his diagnosis, on all these issues, (and it helps those who wonder why our wives dont communicate well and dont empathize with us, seeng things a little bit from our POV, ) is IMMATURITY.
She is immature he told me. Now this sounds trivial I know. No biggie. And yet it is.
Its nothing complex as BPD as I thought or psychosis. Google emotional immaturity in our spouse and I am sure most of what we have complained about here is on that list.
Of course there next relationship will suffer. They cant have relationships if they dont communicate. period,
So we just got back from church. Evening liturgy.
Here in Greece these Fridays before Easter are Salutations to the Virgin Mary. In Orthodox faith Easter is a larger significance holiday than Christmas as it leads to the Resurrection.
So this is the second Friday we went. And as we light our candles each time, I wonder what her wish is.
We all know what mine is. What all LBS want. The dream of all of it going away.
I think she is praying for the opposite, to cancel my prayers out.
How bizzare this period in my life is. We are holding the kid in our hands and I can feel her praying for release.
Update on my status
We have met with our lawyers and my wife wants to go for an amount that I cant pay with my current income.
Here in Greece the law favors the mom so concepts like joint custody are foreign. Only the mama can raise her boy.
The lawyer meeting was my first disheartening event. Its strange to see how far detached the wife is. Calculating the monetary data. Her lawyer insulted me, making it seem like I was not willing to work for more money.
Meanwhile I had more degrees than anyone in that room. Top 5% at DePaul etc. My arguments and sarcasm were lost on that crowd. They only listened to their own arguments and when I shot them down they simply repeated them as if I didnt understand... It was depressing..
So I may not be able to pay this money and may have to go to jail one day if I dont pay.
My only sin was picking up this little girl years ago and educating her, loving her, listening, giving her a kid that she wanted. She was a mess psychologically when I met her, but damn it, once again I didnt run.
The boyscout in me thought he could help. Might I add this is the 2nd time in my life I pick up damaged goods.
Absolutely never again. I mean it. I have risked my sanity and life on broken people.
My good engineer friend told me the other day that when you pick up weak people to help/love them, their self hatred is enough in them that it will cause them to hate you too for valuing them in the first place.
Similar to Jesus being punished for trying to help(I remember the musical where Judas sings "And they will hurt you when they find they're wrong"). People expect miracles that they want and not what you can offer.
Part II
New discoveries. Even more depressing (follows)
We keep talking about the OM in this forum. but I only had hints up to now.
Today when she was gone, I saw she had left her purse wide open on the table.
I snooped. Guilty. Found notes of her with interactions with OM.
Little diaries that women keep about how they made them feel. What he whispered in her ear.
Plus there details of events that pointed to it being real, with a real OM.
Little drawn hearts on the page with her love words.
You always think it cant happen to you. I mean we were watching Unfaithful the other night on TV and she didnt even flinch. How good we are at hiding our sins.
I still havent revealed what I know.
When she moves into her new place I will leave printouts of these on her new floor or walls.
Meanwhile inside our house I have been playing nothing but Ennio Morricone revenge tracks while she is in the next room.
My tracklist. (all Morricone)
Opening song from Five man Army
My Fault (not many people know this one, but it rules. It has the ticking clock that is running out, the child music box winding down as if the inner child and his naivity are dying inside him as he unleashes all rage around 2 minutes in when all hell breaks lose)
The Wild Horde (when old Henry Fonda fights the Wild Bunch all on his own)
I am hoping someone will read this new post on my thread here and offer any ideas / insight on how I may proceed.
Even though I originally wanted to save my marriage I now want to burn it to the ground. I am done.
My psychologist told me 4 months was a good run btw on my efforts of being upbeat , detaching.
But my new discoveries on her diary has thrown me into shock. There are horrid details of her making the moves on this guy and their truly sickening positions. Maybe married couples who know each other for years might venture into these positions and even then it would be out there stuff.
I cant get this out of my head.
She has found a house and is moving out - with our son - so these are the last days we spend time together.
She acts all saintly, and I have not told her what I know. In the past she had told me of 5% chance of us in the future.
I want to tell her when I last see her (even though as parents we will always talk due to kid) that there is not one in a million chance that we will ever rekindle. Should I? I can sense the answers coming that it wouldnt be necessary.
Thats what I would answer to another forum member. Leaving is enough I think.
But as I am in this one I would love a fresh perspective take on his.
This is why everyone says not to snoop unless you're looking for a specific piece of intel.
As for the "sickening positions" - are you referring to sexual positions? If so, does that information matter? Either you're willing to forgive cheating or not. There is a lot of judgement in your statement, not saying I don't feel for you because I do (nobody should have to hear about the specifics of the wayward spouse with their AP), but you may want to reflect and see if being judgmental could be a 180 for you.
I've seen a couple strategies on here about confronting a cheating partner, may want to look into those.
Take all of this negative energy and turn it into something positive. Best of luck.
If you are not going to stand and you want to move on then just do it. Don't tell her what you know, don't rip into her, don't bring yourself down to her level. If any of the information you have can help your legal case ie custody, then save it for the lawyer. If you want to "burn it down" this is the proper way to do it.
2 things...... Actions speak louder than words and never wrestle with a pig, because you both get dirty and the pig likes it.
I´ve been following your sitch Gzabetas. I´m sorry I didn´t chime in earlier. It´s the end of the summer where I live so I still have a lot of work.
Is like JB says Gzabetas. You are not done with W, you know that, you are infuriated with her. But there´s not a magic bullet to make her see what you want. You need to change all that negative feelings into positive ones. They´ll help you out of your sitch.
Don´t need to snoop anymore, you´ll not find anything new. Keep working on yourself. GAL, detach, no expectations. Start enjoying your life. You need to be there for your son.
Let W free. Free yourself. You need to respect yourself so as to get the respect from others. You need to get into amoafwl. Not for W but for your S and yourself.
Stand strong there man.
But my new discoveries on her diary has thrown me into shock. There are horrid details of her making the moves on this guy and their truly sickening positions. Maybe married couples who know each other for years might venture into these positions and even then it would be out there stuff.
Never reveal your sources of Intel. Never reveal what you know. Just reveal that you DO KNOW.
These are the words you use with her:
H:"STOP. We both know you are lying. If you tell me the truth I will listen."
Keep working on your personal growth. What you have found should firm up your resolve to stay on your path to become the man you were meant to be.
You are fighting a battle in your own head. Challenge your belief system.
These are my internal beliefs:
"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me"
"I do not share my woman with other men"
Set her free. Forgive her. Become happy without her. Do not let someone else control your happiness. It is a do it yourself job. You can handle this.
I wish you well.
But my new discoveries on her diary has thrown me into shock. There are horrid details of her making the moves on this guy and their truly sickening positions. Maybe married couples who know each other for years might venture into these positions and even then it would be out there stuff.
I cant get this out of my head.
This is why snooping is a bad idea. Even after you separate, and D. And move on with someone else, knowing these things will haunt you. Stay in IC. Work through this stuff, otherwise you will carry this baggage into your next relationship.
One last question, to make sure you are really done. Hypothetical: what if this wasn't an affair? What if this was a diary from when she was dating an ex-bf, and you read the same things? Would your attitude and perspective be different? I fear you are reacting to this emotionally, and when that subsides, and you are D'd, you will look back and think you could have forgiven her and moved forward if she was willing to recommit. Once you burn it to the ground it is burnt to the ground.
their truly sickening positions.
Even here, you need to challenge your beliefs.
Each of us are different. We all have different needs. One of the hardest things to do is step outside and look into your own sitch.
Look at your own sitch like all three people (You, W and OM) are complete strangers to you. Each one has their own story. Understand each persons story. This is detachment. What needs are being met by OM? Are you capable of meeting these needs? Why is W attracted to OM? Why has she lost attraction for you? This is the growth that you need to go through. It is the hardest yet most rewarding thing you will do.
JB42 thanks, yes referring to sexual positions
I think the details would explain why it matters. She was displaying signs of depression when I was driving her to the gym for 2 years. I would go out of my way to drop her off, take the kid to school, go back when she was done and pick her up.
I was her driving service when she was getting laid (putting it mildly). I would wait downstairs drinking coffee like a proud father waiting for his daughter to finish her classes. Can you begin to understand my rage.
Twofeet, thanks. very well put.
Neffer, thanks for reading my sitch. Yup infuriated is what I feel. And I am still in shock. Thanks for your tips.
I only told my sister, I had to share with someone, and she got a rash on her neck from the stress of it all.
My sister would do her hair and they would laugh. Both of us are sick to our stomach.
My dad offered me Xanax yesterday, I almost took it. I chain smoke mostly and hurt my throat as I am up all night.
Ready2Change I love your quote "never reveal sources of intel". I am so glad I havent given in to temptation.
And everything else you wrote so true as well. The data provided me with the extra kick to more forward.
Steve85 I always thought it was a bad idea. But if I may offer a 180 on that even.
I am so glad I gathered the intel. It makes all the difference. The devil is in the details. Trust me, in my case it is.
You make an excellent point about time working on my perspective in the future, but even if it was in her past I would stlil be appalled. What she did with this man is beyond my boundaries, way beyond.
I know anything is fair in love and war. But this is different.
I wish I could describe what I found. I would get banned as it is too hard.
Think of the categories in sex sites that you dont even dare click to watch. Where you hide your eyes.
And then add to that even.
WHo the hell was I with all these years?
I am no mormon in bed, but when did the freak show stuff become first encounters. I mean where do you build from there when you already went to the far side.
Ready2Change, you are right. I understand that my wife wasnt getting her needs met from me.
But she was a 19 year old virgin when we met and I was always a gentleman with her and took it slow.
I could never push her into those fantasies. I felt so protective of her.
My poor son, looking up to her as his angel, doesnt know that in a few days I will not be a part of his life (only every other weekend in Greek law - mother is never at fault rule) anymore. Because his mother wanted to taste some strange.
I was beginning to teach him guitar and bicycle and English (he only speaks Greek now) and computers.
She will work and throw him in some day care... And I will move back to the States to forget it all. Its too painful.
Will return when the kid can understand more.
So just when I think I got it together this whole thing finds new ways to hurt. Its not over yet as it seems.
Today the wife told me we needed to have the talk with our 4 year old son than mommy and daddy wont be together again. It was more painful than BD. Dont know how others dealt with it.
I have detached my ass off, but now its my son. How the hell do I wrap my head around that.
Since December 2018
1. First I had the shock of her Divorce bomb dropping me.
2. Then meeting with her lawyer getting any ideas out of my head that we had a chance.
3. Then her dropping all blame on me. The monster she described (which was never true). Me taking ownership and guilt for that too.
4. Then finding out she had an EA. With phone sex she admitted to.
5. Then finding out from her that is been going on for years.
6. Then finding it was a PA with possible different men. Diary entries show alot of sick sex.
7. Then finding out I will pay a huge amount of money for the kids raising under her new home. I am unemployed but in Greek law I go to jail if I miss a payment. Have no idea how to secure those funds each month.
8. Then I find out I can only see him every other weekend. 4 days a month maybe. (greek medieval law)
9. Just when I thought I may get an ounce of sleep some day, i had to see my son hitting her mouth when he was being told what our divorce entails.
Its like the "gift" that keeps on giving/
When will this terror end.........
In about a year with time and space you will realize your value and you will realize you deserve better and you realize you can still have a great life if you choose to.
I am really sorry about the laws in your country. They are medieval.
Hi G
I too am sorry. I do not know much about the laws in Greece, but, whilst I can see them wanting you to support your children, I cannot see that they expect you to pay more than you an afford otherwise there would be a ton of ex husbands jail. They can't expect you to pay more than you have ... the maths simply don't work. It cannot be in the state's interest that a man who cannot afford to pay what his wife demands is in jail, because quite simple, he is not only still not paying his wife the support she demands, but the state is also paying to house him in prison.
You mention meeting with her lawyers, but have you seen your own lawyers to confirm. If not, then do so immediately.
My second suggestion is to stop worrying about whether she is having sex with others and whether it is sick or not. If she is having an affair, she will continue to have an affair, emotional or otherwise. the types, positions etc shouldn't matter. You are only torturing yourself.
The terror ends when you stop seeing it as terror. Get up and find out what you can and can't control. You can only see your son for 4 days a week, them make those four days the best four days possible. Use every other day the to work on you.
Sort out your finances, look for a job, start running, go swimming in the local public pool, join a walking club, do anything but sit at home and ponder "what positions she might be having sex in".
LH19 and FlySolo thanks for your replies and tips. God Bless!!
I will re-read them when I lose faith.
As logical and reasonable as one may be, when emotions are so peaked its tough to see the course to follow.
thanks
That’s why detaching is so important when DB. It’s easy to say, I know, but you need to keep it as a first goal. Detach, no expectations.
Be strong there G
I continue to read other peoples's posts, new and old as my own situation develops.
What is really sinking in with these WW, WAW, MLC, whatever you wish to call them is the audacity of their actions.
Most of us here had some negative traits, mostly neglecting the spouse, trapped in work, not displaying the love we truly carried for them inside etc.
But for crying out loud, what they are doing is extremely out of proportion.
I am still helping my wife drive in the final nail into me as a way to speed things up. Getting her new apartment, Utilities etc. She will be taking care of my son, and I need to make sure they will have electricity, an oven, a washer. I need to safe proof the balcony for the kid (add a fence).
And then, when I am gone, her affair person can walk in and do their sweet lovemaking I asssume. I still dont know who he is.
She reminds of Paulie from Goodfellas.
"You dont have money, FU pay me" (her alimony, while I am unemployed)
"You want to see your kid. FU I am taking full custody" (hurting both the kid and me)
"You are right in front of me, FU I am taking a call from the OM and giggling"
So, who really wants this person back in their life. And why do we keep trying to give them a pardon.
Childhood trauma is a given, but many people like my dad were orphans and raised on the street and became great parents and society members, with honor and values.
We keep talking about their behavior like a condition, as if its a sickness.
What if they are truly SOBs, I mean behind that sweet face and talking may lie a psycho who has been in hiding all along.
And I mention this because I read of other spouses displaying this selfish, non-empathizing behaviour.
I really like DnJs description of their personality being a ticking time bomb that was waiting in hiding and exploded in our face.
Anyone's thoughts would truly be appreciated.
G,
Everything you speak of is true right now but there is a universal law called karma and this law is the same as gravity. There will be consequences for you W in the future, we just don’t know what they are right now.
Funny you mention Goodfellas. All day long I've had the scene where Paulie confronts Henry about having a affair. "Whatdaya you gonna do? Your not going to get a divorce? I mean she is wild... Smarten up.!! You gotta go home to the family!"
I've been meaning to read a book called "The Selfish Gene" for years.Wonder if it would provide some insight?
They are in rebellion zebetas. All the things in their distorted view that they thought we did selfishly, but never said anything until the day they got tired of us, and decided to discard. That's the trouble with women, they expect us to intuitively know, men reading women, you have to pay attention more torwards how something is being said, including what is being said. Read between the lines.
Let em go, let em grow, let em live, let them destroy their lives. No more indecisiveness when it comes to my heart, my money, my goals, and my sacrifice and time. I'm not going to lose myself, my home, and my shirt over a woman ever again. And for the good women out there I hope you survive and thrive. Just as long as the children are taken care of.
What is really sinking in with these WW, WAW, MLC, whatever you wish to call them is the audacity of their actions.
If you've ever read posts on other forums by WAW's, it really helps you to realize there are two sides to every story. A lot of women will talk about how absent their H was from the marriage. When we court women we spend a LOT of time with them. If we're not at work then we're with them, or talking to them on the phone, or texting them. They get our undivided attention. We nurture them, support them, fulfill them emotionally, talk about hopes and dreams and the future. Eventually we get married and that's when most men get lazy. She's "in the bag" so there's no longer a need to focus so much attention on her. So we get wrapped up in work, hobbies, kid stuff. We forget her birthday or the anniversary. We barely talk to them. We complain to them instead of talking about hopes and dreams. And we think it's no big deal because "she's my wife, she understands."
Here's the thing, men don't need all that emotional support nonsense, right? Just sex now and then gets the job done. BUT WOMEN DO NEED IT. They need it a LOT, and if they don't get it from us then they WILL eventually seek it out elsewhere. But before that they will start dropping hints. They would tell us, but most of us are so quick to anger that they are afraid to. So they hint instead. We don't take hints very well, we need 2x4's. But they're scared to do that. So they hint and hint and hint and nothing changes. Then they decide to give up and plan their escape. THAT's when we finally get the 2x4 called BD. But by then it's too late to fix all the wrongs that led to their decision.
I hear a lot of language like yours here- "audacity". How dare she do this, destroy the marriage, destroy the family. How can she be such an evil monster. But most WAS's would use the exact same language about their LBS. How dare they mislead me like this, first focus all their energy on me until we get married and then all but abandon me.
Her "truth" is very real and honest and accurate to her just as yours is to you. But here's the trick, you have to set your version aside and try to understand HER truth. If you can be honest with yourself about what YOU did to lead her to this point, THEN you can go on your path of growth.
G,
Everything you speak of is true right now but there is a universal law called karma and this law is the same as gravity. There will be consequences for you W in the future, we just don’t know what they are right now.
I'm still at the stage where at times I hope the karma thing is true. Then again, if she ends up being happy because of this, then maybe she made the right decision. She must have been hurting (whether most people would think there is much validity to her feelings or not) to walk away from a 17 relationship, break up our family, leave behind our dream house in a great location. I'm out of the fog, so I realize that many women would think I'm a good husband (especially after talking to several divorced women). However, maybe I'm not the right husband for my ex-wife.
AS makes good points. Unfortunately, we don't learn the lesson until our wives drop the bomb. A lot of us will make good husbands in the future, if we learn from this.
thanks to all the replies. all wise replies.
I dont disagree with their POV. But its not like we were coming home drunk beating them, hiding affairs etc.
We all simply neglected them in the heat of battle. Our common IC had told us to spend more time together, so we would watch films together and every morning we would go out for cofee and share life talks.
She saw me as her gay friend at some point, (and I am not using it in a sexist way, she used those words exactly to describe me herself in the end)
I dont think I was lacking in time spent with her. Honestly I took a good look at all the details of our past.
It was one year of my studying for my CCNA cert. Thats where I lost her. For crying out loud.
LH19 and Harvey I hope there is karma. I really do.
IHCLACS I think I share your frame of mind mostly these days.
AnotherStander I really appreciate your imput, and it was my take for a long time. But it feels I am blue in the face from analyzing my specs of dirt on my side of the yard, compared to loads of manure on her side.
I really feel like they brought a canon to target a mosquito.
thanks to all the replies. all wise replies.
I dont disagree with their POV. But its not like we were coming home drunk beating them, hiding affairs etc.
We all simply neglected them in the heat of battle. Our common IC had told us to spend more time together, so we would watch films together and every morning we would go out for cofee and share life talks.
She saw me as her gay friend at some point, (and I am not using it in a sexist way, she used those words exactly to describe me herself in the end)
I dont think I was lacking in time spent with her. Honestly I took a good look at all the details of our past.
It was one year of my studying for my CCNA cert. Thats where I lost her. For crying out loud.
Spending more time together apparently doesnt work for everyone. We went on date nights weekly, spent everynight watching tv/movies. we went shopping together etc . worked out together at the gym you name it. So from what you hear and read most women would love that but apprently not my w or yours?
bubbs16 apparently not it seems.
some women want more. the fantasy. the romance., i get it,.
Ready2change I value your opinion as AnotherStander's but they come from a place of arguing that where there's smoke there is a fire. (referring to the linked post) And there is some truth to that.
But let me reverse the situation for you,. Is there any circumstance where you would do to your wife, what she did to you,.
Lets say she crossed that hypothetical line of things that made you die inside similar to the WW story we read.
She neglected you, didnt give you sex, or cook or whatever your boundaries were.
Would you really drop her like a hot potato, ask her for alimony, consider her dead to you, no regards to her feelings, sleep around and on and on. From the writings of your members I do not see that quality of men here.
I know at the first instance of my wife crying I would have run to fix anything. She saw me crying like she saw paint drying.,
She was dropping hints I understand, but when it comes to spewing, or talking to her lawyer she is very verbose to get whats coming to her, WHy wasnt she verbose when things could have been repaired.
I will also add something Wayne Dyer said once. A person is judged by their output.
An orange will always produce orange juice. Its in the nature of the fruit., When pressed, it will produce orange juice.
A person with all animosity inside them is waiting to unleash all terror on their unsuspecting spouse.
Hence you see a selection of wives sticking by men who do them wrong beyond reason. Cheaters, beaters, drug takers, gamblers, controllers, anger issues....
And others who will leave cause "they didnt get their pony" so to say.
Not all people have the same depth and empathy.
I am getting ready to migrate again to find work to support the alimony and my sons future.
She is on a mission to find herself, and the love of other men.
I am looking at the big picture. She wants to smell the daisies now. I cant argue with that.
bubbs16 apparently not it seems.
some women want more. the fantasy. the romance., i get it,.
Ready2change I value your opinion as AnotherStander's but they come from a place of arguing that where there's smoke there is a fire. (referring to the linked post) And there is some truth to that.
But let me reverse the situation for you,. Is there any circumstance where you would do to your wife, what she did to you,.
Lets say she crossed that hypothetical line of things that made you die inside similar to the WW story we read.
She neglected you, didnt give you sex, or cook or whatever your boundaries were.
Would you really drop her like a hot potato, ask her for alimony, consider her dead to you, no regards to her feelings, sleep around and on and on. From the writings of your members I do not see that quality of men here.
I know at the first instance of my wife crying I would have run to fix anything. She saw me crying like she saw paint drying.,
She was dropping hints I understand, but when it comes to spewing, or talking to her lawyer she is very verbose to get whats coming to her, WHy wasnt she verbose when things could have been repaired.
I will also add something Wayne Dyer said once. A person is judged by their output.
An orange will always produce orange juice. Its in the nature of the fruit., When pressed, it will produce orange juice.
A person with all animosity inside them is waiting to unleash all terror on their unsuspecting spouse.
Hence you see a selection of wives sticking by men who do them wrong beyond reason. Cheaters, beaters, drug takers, gamblers, controllers, anger issues....
And others who will leave cause "they didnt get their pony" so to say.
Not all people have the same depth and empathy.
I am getting ready to migrate again to find work to support the alimony and my sons future.
She is on a mission to find herself, and the love of other men.
I am looking at the big picture. She wants to smell the daisies now. I cant argue with that.
well some men would probably do that yes. We cant be sexist . It def seems like there is something inside women though for sure. I was there for my wife when her mom passed away and it wrecked her world for years and years. came home crying daily and lock herself in the bedroom. I didn't turn my heart cold or bitter towards her and run away . I stood behind her and was there for her when she struggled. This lasted YEARS by the way . I wont say it didn't cause issues but i never left her thats for dang sure. I didn't give her the emapthy she needed though probably for us not ever being able to get pregnant. I will admit to that. I wasn't there for her. Then they just leave you like you were nothing to them.
But let me reverse the situation for you,. Is there any circumstance where you would do to your wife, what she did to you
You have to understand that relationship issues are 50/50. You have just as much responsibility in how you got here as she does. You were just blind to the issue, just like the rest of us.
The ladies here are dealing with your hypothetical. Their H's needs were not being met. They went to another person to get those needs met.
I don't have "real" numbers but this is my perception:
65% of the poster are left behind husbands with 99% of them having nice guy and beta behavior.
25% are left behind wifes
9% are wayward wives
1% are wayward husbands.
"Nice guys" would not do this to their W, ie all of the male poster here.
But let me reverse the situation for you,. Is there any circumstance where you would do to your wife, what she did to you
You have to understand that relationship issues are 50/50. You have just as much responsibility in how you got here as she does. You were just blind to the issue, just like the rest of us.
The ladies here are dealing with your hypothetical. Their H's needs were not being met. They went to another person to get those needs met.
I don't have "real" numbers but this is my perception:
65% of the poster are left behind husbands with 99% of them having nice guy and beta behavior.
25% are left behind wifes
9% are wayward wives
1% are wayward husbands.
"Nice guys" would not do this to their W, ie all of the male poster here.
nobody should be doing this to their spouses.....
Gzbetas, whilst what you say may be the fundamental truth , is that going to help you get your wife and son back to a safe and secure family unit with a man who has learned and changed and improved himself?
As per r2c and his stats , I agree . Stopping the NG attitude breeds attraction if done in the right way .
thanks Tryhard, thats what I am aiming for.
bubbs16 totally agree.
Ready2Change, nice to see those numbers. If I had to place myself in there I would be in the high percentage with Nice guy syndrome and beta behaviour.
As to the old adage that relationship issues are 50/50 I am not so sure anymore.
Sure it takes 2 to make a relationship work, but it takes one to break it.
It is noble to analyze our behavior as contributing to the meltdown, but from my end I found very little.
I did let family and friends let go. I am guilty of that. The people that mattered to me I forsake for my wife, who was always the hurting bird, the traumatized person who needed me to be her satellite.
And you know what, those people that I did do wrong, when I am hurting now, they all came around to help.
Its funny how that works. Goes to show that strong character and empathy doesn't just go away.
My wife never had that stability.
I quote DnJs writing again describing a ticking time bomb that was my wife. Some past trauma. It was always there, I see it now.
I add 2 rules that are very important, mentioned in the DR book.
1. Happiness comes from inside.
2. Love is a choice.
The spouse has to pick 1 and 2 on their own.
Our contribution should be irrelevant.
nobody should be doing this to their spouses.....
That is an opinion and a belief system. The reality is it is being done. There is temptation everywhere. It is an awareness that Alpha males have and they protect their relationship from it. They addresses it quickly.
nobody should be doing this to their spouses.....
That is an opinion and a belief system. The reality is it is being done. There is temptation everywhere. It is an awareness that Alpha males have and they protect their relationship from it. They addresses it quickly.
I agree to an extent, if the Male is properly committed he will , otherwise there are plenty fish in the sea . R2C you are a wise man and you help is a service to many . I salute you my brother, keep up the good work.
I
well some men would probably do that yes. We cant be sexist . It def seems like there is something inside women though for sure. I was there for my wife when her mom passed away and it wrecked her world for years and years. came home crying daily and lock herself in the bedroom. I didn't turn my heart cold or bitter towards her and run away . I stood behind her and was there for her when she struggled. This lasted YEARS by the way . I wont say it didn't cause issues but i never left her thats for dang sure. I didn't give her the emapthy she needed though probably for us not ever being able to get pregnant. I will admit to that. I wasn't there for her. Then they just leave you like you were nothing to them.
There does seem to be some truth i this . Maybe men are more logical and less deep and women emotional and deep , or is it their nature?
R2C you are a wise man and you help is a service to many . I salute you my brother, keep up the good work.
Thanks. I understand how hard it is when emotions are involved. I try to give solid advise based on logic. Makes my decisions easier when my emotions are involved. I already had to think hard about what to do.
Well divorce papers were signed last week.
Today I helped her box some of her small stuff and did some drive-runs to her new place. The movers are coming tomorrow for her heavy stuff.
Somethings I noticed. Her "new" place is a much older house, and I think she sees the difference between my place which was bright with insulation etc. And I think the OM is inferior too. From my research he is in a steady relationship with his GF and not committed to mine. A few days ago my W even said "The next man may not even measure up to you" she said. Meaning that my status (height, masters degrees, dual citizen, looks) was a positive.
So looking at the 2 houses I can kinda see that in a logical way we LBS are the clear winner, and the W knowingly drops her standards to the new OM and house and life.
Only to get away from her emotional pain. Pain that we didnt create.("you didnt break her, you cant fix her" thanks forum members for that)
God, for the last 2 years I funded her
- spanish lessons, tango lessons, english tutor, driving lessons (she failed all)
- psychologist sessions, dermatologist, endocrinologist, gynecologist
- gym membership, new phones
- new wardrobe and shoes
And still she was unhappy. Stuff that I sacrificed from me to have to offer her.
I still wear my 1990s Sears, Gap, USA clothes that I brought here to Greece (revamping my wardrobe these days)
with my own abandoned dental work etc to provide for my wife and kid as they were priorities.
And still she was unhappy ("Happiness comes from inside" DVBusting forums also)
Thank God, due alot to this forum and book here, that I was able to Detach and act as if during this ordeal.
I dont know, her moving into the older house gave me such a strong metaphor for her moving into an inferior life.
Maybe that is my POV, but I think anyone would see it.
She probably thinks that in that place, there are no demons of doubt and despair in her head.
All the negative is associated of course with everything we represent.
Happiness is a do it yourself task. Get yourself happy. Hope she finds her happy.
Good job helping her move. Be the rock. Stay focused on your personal growth. Time is on your side. She may notice how unhappy she is without you around to blame.
R2C. I was reading your stitches from 11 years ago and this one really stuck out, (part 5 no trust) Pg.4 from Pegasus. This is exactly what has been on the back of my mind and exactly the same form and context for months.
R2C: Smartcookie: Ping1: That is what gets me down. I need to stay "in the now". I can not understand why W believes it will be "better" being a broken family.
Ready, when you figure this out, let me know because I believe we are all in awe trying to figure out how they could care less that their children will be in a broken family.
Pegasus: I will tell you how people believe and justify this. We live in an era where every says you have to be independent. Also we have therapist and others saying if you are not happy then go find some one else to be happy with. What gets me about all the you have to do what makes you happy and screw everyone else BS is this. If I walked into a therapist office and said I wanted to beat up my neighbor because he's a jerk, and doing that would make me happy, the therapist would say calm down don't do anything rash. Yet someone walks into a therapist office and says I'm not happy in my marriage, and I have done everything I can to make it work(I love when people say that. My WAW says that. There is no possible way on earth that you could have done everything to save your marriage. It's a cop out. The truth is they got tired of trying.) the therapist more often then not will tell them, well if you feel you have done everything and your not happy, go be happy. Leave your spouse and make your kids have a broken home. This is the era we live in. It's all about ME and MY happiness and SCREW everyone else. And these people teach their kids the very same values. Very few people will look at the situation and go well what is the RIGHT thing to do. The right thing is to FIND a way to make your marriage work and rebuild the love and trust. And unless there is serious addictions or physical or emotional abuse there is ALWAYS a way.
Thanks R2C, thats exactly what I want to be. The rock. Unphased by all madness.
And I agree, she may notice how unhappy she is w/o me. I hope she does. I was her emotional support for years to the point where it drained me. I need this time for me too. Lets see how she does on her own with the demons inside her having no one to respond around her.
IHCLACS I know what you mean about our era of disposable relationships.
My therapist and her father were all for the marriage. She fired them too. So in the end the stronger ego wins.
But in a way its a losing bet for them.
I would have never thought of the lowest of lows that my spouse entered to "survive" / escape.:
Rewriting our history. Monstrifying me. etc (the script we all are familiar with)
Affairs with OM in kinky positions at the gym that I paid for and drove her in my car to after making her scrambled eggs and juice.
Keeping them secret for a year.
Lying about everything to me.
Verbally abusing me for a year.
Badmouthing me to everyone, behind my back.
And I kid you not. I am the nicest guy you can meet. I was never the controlling type, or angry etc
I am not going to be so nice anymore (to quote Richard Dreyfus in Stakeout)
Ill see your gym that you drove her to and raise you a video of W and OM making out (almost screwing) in the car I bought and just rebuilt the top end of the motor in specifically for her. Video sent by my cousins son who also worked the same shift as her. W didnt know that she parked right next to him. That was a def kick in the nuts as the entire family knew what was going on after that.
ouch that hurts.
at least yours was almost screwing. i cant even begin to describe the acts my wife did.
I wrote the paragraph and deleted it a few times. I refuse to even type it. its that demeaning to me.....
oh well as AnotherStander always says "We should be able to see our wives getting gangbanged by 50 in the park" and have it roll off like water on a ducks back. So wise. Thats true detachment.
- Oh you drank from that mans .. Oh thats just swell, keep it up.....
That is the definition of "you mean nothing to me"
Gotta love the vets on this forum, they have given us so much.
Yeah, im at that point now. Tried reconciling after she left for almost 9 months, but she continues to lie (i know of at least 2 more guys she was with) and 3 she has admitted to. It doesnt even effect me anymore, esp since I can never see myself being physical with her again after she reveled she "caught" something she cant get rid of now.
From the minute your spouse bomb drops you, it is over. Even if it is for now. You may connect again in the future but for now consider it over. Its better that way.
Its all clear to me now. All the efforts at buying her gifts post BD to show her love, were attempts at bribes.
Or not wanting to deal with the reality of the situation. Why? Cause it hurt like hell.
But looking back (hindsight being 20/20) from a more detached position I can see her actions for the past year (prior to BD) were so offensive and disrespectful. When I got a job offer she was in rage. "Why now ?" she kept saying.
Cause it would break her fantasy of me being the dud and her OM being the shining knight. (PS he is long gone now, funny how that works, but we are still divorced).
I think it would benefit it us all if, from the time we are BD'd we assume that we are now sleeping "with the enemy".
Our spouse has crossed over and is working for the other side. Kind of like those 70s paranoia spy thrillers (Parallax View), where our spouse is brainwashed and programmed to work for the other man/woman.
They truly don't give a rats ass about us at that point. So we need to protect ourselves.
Its hard to believe the person we shared life's ups and downs, children, meals and a bed with could be so ruthless to us.
But it happens. Call it MLC or WW or whatnot, the ingredients are there for a recipe in disaster. Your disaster.
As vets here say, dont forget, she has has a 1 year start on you and you are entering the game late.
The name of the game is now called your survival.
Really if that can sink in for newcomers, it would helps recovery so much.
One thing that has helped me get my sleep back, is when she moved out. It really is better. Even if our kid is with her I will see him in the next few days. But not having the pouting and anger and temper depression, text messaging OM in front of me has been a life saver. It really is out of sight out of mind.
Cooking myself a healthy breakfast and getting ready for a jog.
Starting the new book of my life. Chapter 1
It's funny how it's so clear once you get to the other side. I often wonder what the recon rate would be if at bomb drop the LBS said calmly " this is not what I want but I understand that you do. Can I help you pack your stuff?" Then start working on yourself and creating an awesome life.
No begging, pleading, pursuit just complete detachment.
I know that's how I will treat all new relationships. Give it my best and if that is not good enough it is time to move on.
[quote=gzabetasOne thing that has helped me get my sleep back, is when she moved out. It really is better. Even if our kid is with her I will see him in the next few days. But not having the pouting and anger and temper depression, text messaging OM in front of me has been a life saver. It really is out of sight out of mind.
[/quote]
So true and same here. When my WW moved out, my sleep improved tremendously. It’s still not as sound as it needs to be, but getting there. Seeing her text OM in front of you tears the LBS apart. Like a knife being slowly inserted and twisted over and over.
I agree LH, had we known then what we know now, we would have been a better position to negotiate and fight.
Curtis, I know right? I certainly am getting better sleep too. That was a big step up.
And I was a guy who almost swerved my car into a tree to stop the pain at my worst.
Things that helped me were:
"She is not your wife. She has fired you. She is abducted by an alien. She will monstrify you" (this forum)
Remember back to when you first started dating her. You were whole. And happy. (this was a lightbulb for me)
We were self sufficient for a long time in our lives.
Plus God knows we wouldn't have put up with their crap.
Thank God I was able to mentally go back and assume I was starting to date her. And I realized I wouldnt.
Not this way.
Starting the new book of my life. Chapter 1
YES! And you are the author, you can write whatever you want!
And I was a guy who almost swerved my car into a tree to stop the pain at my worst.
I think we all faced similar demons. It is a really painful thing to go through but when you come out the other side you really do feel like there's not much life can throw at you that you can't handle with grace.
Remember back to when you first started dating her. You were whole. And happy. (this was a lightbulb for me)
We were self sufficient for a long time in our lives.
Exactly, that's a big part of recovery is getting back to that person we were before we got married. Strong, independent, content to be alone. When we met our W's our attitude was "she can join me in life if she wants, and if she doesn't then no biggie." And that's what we have to get back to.
Thank God I was able to mentally go back and assume I was starting to date her. And I realized I wouldnt.
Not this way.
That's the irony. The person that BD'd us IS NOT the person we fell in love with. What happened to that person is a question we'll never get answered, but we struggle along after BD hoping that old person will come back. But they rarely do. This new person that they are is typically not someone we would even want to be in an R with, but it takes a while for us to come out of the fog and see that.
That's a great way of looking at it gzabetas. I've tried that. Going back to my wholeness and objectivtivity of another person, back in time when I first met them, who I was, what I was doing, how I acted. I can also say that my 1st infatuation, and rejection when I was 17, almost cause me to drive my car into a tree, and losing multiple jobs, whether it be due to lay off or fired for some small transgression, or underperformance over the years, and disappointing my wife several times, did cause me to consider putting a pistol against my head, knowing I could never do it. This was before kids. My W uncle killed himself a couple of years ago, and W friend hung himself in HS. So I have seen suicide first hand. Out of my 5 relationships I've had 2 cheat on me, and W came close with IA/EA.
Now I'm faced with my biggest challenge. W leaving the marriage, selling our home, and me being the best father I can be. Rebuilding my life, and at least trying to be a better person than I have been in the last 20 years. If there is anything that has made me emotionally and mentally stronger, it has been experiencing all these pains in certain parts of my life. My value is enough to respect myself and walk away, and just enough to start with some small changes. I will never put the value of myself in someone else's hands. The biggest question is can I learn and change from my mistakes, and how far can I take it?
AS its true, they are not the person we fell in love with.
Dont know what happened to that person, but my IC who also treated my WW before me told me to consider the old wife dead and gone. She has been replaced by another being and that I need to start mourning her and move on.
That was the cold truth.
And as you yourself I think wrote on an earlier post today 9 out of 10 times the LBS wont want the recon if its suggested in the future. I believe that.
IH I know the feeling. I think it was the thought of my kid that saved me.
One day , like right after BD, I was returning home from teaching at a local college, and the thoughts were there to end it.
An ambulance came in the opposite direction and the sound of it brought me to my senses.
Later on at home I told my wife how close I had come to ending it. And get this, she said "Yeah I heard the ambulance and thought it might be you". And she said it with the apathy of finding out you need new tires or something trivial.
That was also an eye opener.
People are not what movies and books talk about. They are alot more complex and dangerous.
As both of us are fathers lets prepare our kids to not get their hearts broken.
One thing I told my wife in our last days is (we have a son btw and she got custody)
"You better hope our boy doesn't meet someone like you and get treated the same way you treated me one day. He is soft like his father, so keep an eye on him".
So its been a month since our divorce, and I got to say I am alot better off than I thought I would be.
Once again the thoughts of something menacing in the horizon were more painful than the actual thing.
But I have a big moral dilemma, and new found pain.
I see my wife struggling. Not doing well. I was her entire support system. Of course like everyone says here, their OM affair will fizzle (and it did) and they will face their new harsh reality alone.
Her new home with my son has no bed, they sleep on the floor, I gave them my mattreses.
She has no car ( I was her driver), so she walks the kid back and forth to school everyday, and walks to the supermarket, and walks to work etc.
I babysit the kid every afternoon when she is at work (even though on paper she has custody and I pay her my unemployment check for her rent). But all that I do is not enough. She is crashing and its painful to watch.
Her skin is bad, she is back on daily migraines (I had helped her with all that via massage and talking, she was always an overthinker and analyzer and I gave her emotional support), and she told me she has dizzy spells.
I detached, but I still love this human being. I am not an animal. Do not think I am looking to get her back. I am really happy alone (working out, studying) but I feel obligated to step in and rescue her. This woman once gave me her all.
But she fired me right? So what am I to do???
Damn this MLC, WAW whatever the hell it is.
Its the "gift" that keeps on giving.
You can do whatever you want, but rescuing her isn't going to help her in the long run, nor will it help you move on.
Your attitude should be: "Not my pig, not my farm."
Always make it about the kid. Buy the kid a kid's bed. Where she sleeps isn't your problem.
I was going to say the same thing Steve said. Not only can you not rescue her, she doesn't WANT to be rescued by you. It would probably just make her angry and resentful. Leave her be, this is the path she has chosen. All of the walking around will do her some good and give her perspective on life. The ONLY thing I might suggest is if S is in a bad situation at her place then consider moving for full custody of him.
I would suggest you buy your son a bed. And don't call it babysitting - it's never babysitting when a parent parents their own child.
Thanks Steve and AS, and Allison. I needed to hear this.
Its strange that as vets you never falter, your advice is solid and consistent. I think maybe they will grant an exception this time in their advice, but you are so seasoned its second nature to you to give the proper answer. Good job!
Its painful to watch her, but I need to stay out of her life. Tonight my father in law (who is still great friends with me, and helped me thru this by acknowledging his daughter's off-the-wall behavior this last year) told me her mother is coming to visit, so I think her distress signal landed and she has found someone to help.
As far as the bed, I just bought him a bed for my house, for the few days he is sitting with me, and since she takes more money than I make from me (I borrow for her alimony) I am unfortunately not left with much. I am dependent on her good decision making to see to it he gets a proper bed.
Small update on my sitch.
Found out today that even though we have divorced for about 6 weeks now and I have paid her 2 alimony checks, she still bad mouths me to outsiders.
She still has anger with me on the phone sometimes. Its hot and cold. Its like Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde.
Sweet and innocent one minute and a dragon breathing fires the other.
I am out of her life, how can she still find a way to accuse me of everything wrong in her life.
Small recap.
I saved her from death 3-4 times (surgery with cysts that I researched and paid for, heart problems, etc)
I made all her dreams true (spanish lessons, tango, gym membership, motherhood)
** The motherhood was a miracle as she was not meant to have kids and I invested my whole life into making that happen for her. If all else failed I thought THAT would have made her complete, whole and happy. How wrong I was.**
Took her out 3 times a week. Watched films together. We were best friends.
And today I found out she admitted her cheating affair to our common friend cause I was such an A**ole to be with ?
Are these spouses mentally deranged? Really.
She has the softest face of an angel, and I cant even explain to common friends that I am not the bad guy really.
They are dealing with an unreliable narrator, kind of like Keyser Sose in the Unusual Suspects.
No one could see the pure evil that lied below.
In our spouses life they were depressed and had low self esteem for so long that bred this. But when all our efforts to bring them sunshine failed (cause they werent ready to be saved I guess) they executed us..
The winner rewrites history I guess....
g, how are you? Plans for the summer? How is IC going?
Too much her in your post. g, you should be a ghost to her right now. Who cares what she is saying, the truth always has a way of winning out. You can believe it. A man that is confident is an innocent man. Just chuckle when people ask you about things she said, like "that is sooooooo absurd it doesn't warrant a response". Those that are innocent don't feel the need to defend themselves.
You've got this man. Onward and upward!
Thanks Steve,
Actually planning to move back to the States at the end of this summer back to my hometown of Chicago.
Yeah having a bad night tonight as I am hearing alot of damaging words from her mouth. Hence the 'her" in my post.
As this is a small town in Greece, I feel it may be the reason behind my losing work or common friends.
Otherwise working out, getting fit, playing the guitar again. Studying for Windows Server Admin, doing a refresher on my admin skills for my reentry in to the US IT job market.
I just cant believe the level of delusion she is in, maintaining the animosity and wanting to abolish me.
Thanks again for the encouraging words my brother.
I feel frustrated though as if I feel none of my posts have captured what has been happening lately.
Here is the vicious cycle that I am caught in.
1. I am distant doing my own thing, then our kid needs to be handed off between us and we interact.
2. She shows me some sign of weakness or something she needs help with, usually related to the kid.
3. I come in to save the day.
4 And she crucifies me for it.
rinse and repeat
Thats it in a nutshell. I have no idea how to cope with that.
Her condition is such that she sees anyone who giver her any attention as a weakling and she punishes them.
Its twisted.
Its like that scene from Ghostbusters with Gozer the Gagarian.
"You showed me kindness, Now Die !!!"
I was a distant loner last week and she was respecting me. Then she needed help with her resume for her new job.
No one could edit her PDF version. I am kinda the IT genius in my small town, so I help her.
No thank you, later that night she cursed at me.
A few days ago, they couldnt set up her home internet - so I drew her a network diagram to work on her own showing where all the cables went. The next morning she bad mouths me.
Today she had nowhere to leave our son and it was her day with him. I step up.
When I returned him home, she made this dismissive hand gesture like "Now beat it, scram"
WTF
Its as if she can only raise her value/self-esteem by diminishing me.
I know its her twisted game and I should not play it. But I dont want to give her the satisfaciton
Tomorrow our son is in a school play, We will bump into each other.
God knows what surprise awaits me.
Sure she will provoke some kind of fight to make me look like an A*ole (as the tune by Beck goes)
gzabetas -
"If you continue to bad mouth me, I will no longer help you with tasks like your resume or internet." Set some boundaries.
For your son, enjoy the extra time you get with him. She's dismissive? Hey, it just validates that she is not a good person to be with.
She sounds awful, whether or not people recognize her bad-mouthing. Don't play her game, be consistent, rise above. Stop saving the day.
Here is the vicious cycle that I am caught in.
GZ, sounds like she's a narcissist. When she's asking you to do things it's just a form of control for her. Crucifying you afterwards is also a form of control, it's her telling you that you have no value, that she doesn't care about your help and that she's done with you again. If you don't know much about narcissism then please do some research, it'll help you recognize her patterns so you can avoid falling into the same old traps she lays.
Her condition is such that she sees anyone who giver her any attention as a weakling and she punishes them.
Narcissists are unable to feel empathy towards others because everything is all about themselves.
Then she needed help with her resume for her new job.
No one could edit her PDF version. I am kinda the IT genius in my small town, so I help her.
No thank you, later that night she cursed at me.
This should be obvious, but you've got to quit helping her. If she asks for your help then politely decline. If she asks why then tell her like unchien said that you are done being insulted every time you help her and you will no longer tolerate it. Expect denial or even ranting, just tell her the conversation is over and walk away or hang up or quit replying to texts.
Its as if she can only raise her value/self-esteem by diminishing me.
Although narcissists and gaslighters can be (but are not always) physically abusive, for the majority of their victims, emotional suffering is where the damage is most painfully felt. Both narcissists and gaslighters enjoy spreading and arousing negative emotions in order to feel powerful, and keep you insecure and off-balance. They habitually invalidate others’ thoughts, feelings, and priorities, showing little remorse for causing people in their lives pain. They often blame their victims for having caused their own victimization (“You wouldn’t get yelled at if you weren’t so stupid!”).
In addition, many narcissists and gaslighters have unpredictable mood swings and are prone to emotional drama — you never know what might displease them and set them off. They become upset at any signs of independence and self-affirmation (“Who do you think you are!?”). They turn agitated if you disagree with their views or fail to meet their expectations. As mentioned earlier, they are sensitive to criticism, but quick to judge others. By keeping you down and making you feel inferior, they boost their fragile ego, and feel more reassured about themselves.Sure she will provoke some kind of fight to make me look like an A*ole (as the tune by Beck goes)
Sit away from her and don't engage with her.
Thanks unchien and AS, I needed to hear that.
Cant tell if its narcissism, will look into it. I know the meaning of the greek word to fall in love with ones image.
Dont know the details. Alot of what you quoted AS sounds true.
She was definitely not like this before. Whatever crack occurred in her psyche (all that childhood drama - parents neglect) that resurfaced when she found out about her father's second family, took about a year inside her to brew and exploded at me (the new father figure, we have 20 years age diff.)
Then she created a story of me, stringing 5-6 events where I dropped the ball (forgot valentines day once etc) and she is sticking to it. It justified her affair I guess.
I love a quote I read here on this forum once. "Behind all their actions is Depression, a long standing one. Always is"
So I could see her cracking pre- BD. She was claiming loss of identity. Making raving accusations that she was gonna f*k us all (her parents as well). Night cries, migraines. She probably still has them.
Her inability to cope with all this, causes her to lash out at me.
So I have a cracked ex-wife, going out there as a free agent spewing untruths about me.
I am closing with a happy note for all fathers left behind spouses by their MLC/WAW wives.
Today at our 4 year old son's school play, the ex and her mother (in loud colors and makeup) where in the first row clapping for my boy.
I was all the way in the back to not interact with them.
When the children finished and received their gift bag for the summer, all kids returned to their parents.
My boy ran passed his mother and gramma, having spotted me and rushed to hug me.
He broke away from them and had his eyes fixed on me. I needed that vote of approval today.
I am crying even as I write this. What a positive note for my day!!
Sure man! You got all what you needed there!
Great Gz, great.
g, likely her post D life isn't living up to the fantasy it was in her head. And she is lashing out in frustration at that. At this point, it isn't about you. You are her history. Since she is unhappy with her present she has to drag up her history to make her feel better about her situation.
Just keep DBing!
That's awesome GZ! You've got this!
Gzabetas. It sounds like the Jeckyl and Hyde effect is BPD. I know something about this being raised in a negative family environment. It's Boarderline Personality Disorder. I do it too. I have a few characteristics of it but there are spectrums from benign to malignant. I've been working with a therapist on it, and researching the hell out of it. I even tried explaining it to my wife two weeks ago before I decide to cut off all contact with her, after feeling I was being manipulated, I just decided to stop responding to anything in all things emotionally related to avoid frustrations, conversations that go nowhere with no resolve or results on placed boundaries.
It's kind of like this. If something is plaguing the mind of a BPD person, whether it be circumstantial external or internal. Especially when it is internal, it can appear to an outsider that's our emotions are unsuiting to the current present situation, hence the Jeckyl and Hyde effect to their perception in the given moment. In other words we are quietly ruminating and thinking very quickly and fluctuating between our emotions and thoughts very rapidly on what we thinking about. Sometimes compulsively too in thinking. Its an emotional regulation issue, if we think about things long enough without any type of outlets for it whether it be verbal, vocal, creative or whatever. There could be tendencies to verbally lash out depending. Or constantly talk about things until we feel better. I think people with adult ADD and childhood dysfunctional relationships with patents are more prone to this. According to studies it is more prevalent among women though. It might be BPD as well as NPD. Hope this helps understand. I've noticed that respectively that even I can be the life of the party when I'm up. Not necessarily euphoric but definately full of life and joy and excitement. When I am down the I am definitely down and everybody knows it. It's like our emotions have no filters. It appears as bipolar to someone over a long period of time in getting to know someone.Of time but it's actually not the case bipolar is very different. It's kind of like wearing your heart on your sleeve sometimes it's inappropriate to the situation because we are caught up in our own thoughts. What helps is becoming aware of this and describing our emotions rather than acting out on them. The acting out it's almost like we can't help it. Wake me up here very dramatic and a good way and in a bad way at times to other certain personnas. That is what I'm being taught is healthier
Good luck with the Windows Server Exam. I failed it and my CCNA 8 years ago. Just got the A+ Net +and MCP. I left IT about 3 or 4 years ago.
Thanks neffer and AS. Its all I need today!!
Whoa Steve85 you hit it on the head I think.
Two days ago I discovered that she lost 1 of her part time jobs. She told me it was my fault. LOL. We are on our second month of divorce with very little interaction. I guess I have Jedi mind tricks to persuade her employers to let her go thru the ether.
And yes, her honeymoon is over as OM is back with his steady woman.
Her fantasy is collapsing.
IHCLACS thanks for the info. Man there sure are alot of disorders out there.
I did get a chance to talk to her therapist, as he was treating both of us, and after pages and pages of notes on her behavior at home I handed him, he only said "She is immature". Its funny how all of us here on these forums dig deep into books of current trends and new discoveries on the psyche and a councelor will never go into that detail.
I dont know if its laziness on their part or overthinking on our part.
Or the unreliable narrator. I know for a fact no one has seen the face of my wife that I know.
Its hard for an IC to diagnose when people hide so well.
Lying especially. Why go to a therapist if you dont disclose stuff is beyond me.
But even this diagnosis of Immaturity on her part may not be so simple. Looking it up online, it does display adults stuck in the young age emotionally where the world revolved around them, getting their way and clearly not empathizing with another person's POV.
Great job on the A+ certis. I passed my CCNA this past fall. Adding some Windows stuff.
I left IT 13 years ago so I need a strong card going back in
You are doing great G. Your last few posts have been less about her and more about you and how you are moving forward. That's a big change and you should be proud.
Then she created a story of me, stringing 5-6 events where I dropped the ball (forgot valentines day once etc) and she is sticking to it.
They all do this. We all do this. We have an idea in our head of how things were and how people are. These don't always have much to do with reality and more to do with what we are feeling. Then we cherry pick bits and pieces of our past to validate how we feel. When I was in the throes of things, I remembered only the good. He remembered only the bad. The same memories. The same experiences. Different interpretations. Now, I see our marriage for what it was. Good and bad. So does he.
It justified her affair I guess
The affair was a symptom of her unhappiness. People who are happy in their marriages do not have affairs. Why she was unhappy is a different conversation. Could be childhood trauma. Could be depression. Could be narcissism. Could be you. Could be that two good people just drifted apart. Doesn't matter. When you are ready to look at your marriage objectively and own the things you did that contributed to the BD, then you can 180 on those things and become a better you. Leave her to her. She might do the work and become a better her. Then again, she might not. Not your problem anymore.
The moment with your boy sounds lovely. I'd like you to reframe it though.
My boy ran passed his mother and gramma, having spotted me and rushed to hug me. He broke away from them and had his eyes fixed on me. I needed that vote of approval today.I am crying even as I write this. What a positive note for my day!!
What made that moment beautiful was the interaction between your boy and you. It had nothing to do with your W and her mom.
Thanks for reading the posts Flysolo and offering your female perspective.
I agree on all your points of what contributes to the unhappiness of our spouse.
Trust me I spent a lot of time pointing light on all aspects of me and what I could have fixed. IC sessions, books, this forum, talks with friends etc.
At some point though it didnt add up to her decision.
How unhappy was she? We'll never know.
But aren't we all at some point.
As to the moment with my boy, I do not mean to diminish his mother (which she is doing a good job, when not being weird) but the details do count. They do to me.
He will have his mother forever, but after this summer I am leaving the country.
The fact that she was there and he came to me said, that mom is not enough, I need some of you too.
"Not like this... not like this"
Wondering if this thought captures alot of the forum members thoughts.
Wonder if you also had been thru many hardships with your spouse, but believing in each other and with strong will beyond human endurance you somehow made it as a family unit.
Some of my flashbacks include difficult surgeries, a very complicated birth, financial crisis etc.
Years ago a horse attacked me and chewed on my arm and throwing me around. She jumped in and rescued me too.
Thru it all we came winners, and when I look at where I stand now, with my right wingman having betrayed me for so long and having made it to the other side alone, I keep thinking this line we hear in movies
Not like this mi amore, not like this...
Standing alone in the aftermath of what they left behind for us to piece together, smoking a cigarette in a pensive mood.
You really did it. You were the one who brought us down.
Life sure is strange...and unpredictable.
Everyday I can't believe this is happening to my marriage. The person how I have loved for so long, just stopped loving me. I never saw it happen, I thought we were just in a mature relationship, until the day she said ILYBIANILWY. Now my heart is broken. She doens't seem like the person I have known all of these years.
Totally understand you destroyd. At least we share this forum to see that we are not the only ones.
There is a plethora of good men in here (not violent, or drug users or gamblers) that simply missed some cues from a wife who felt neglected and found themselves wished into the cornfields by their wife.
It really is like a Twilight zone episode.
And I wholeheartedly disagree with people suggesting that it must have been something on our side.
Our side of the relationship could have been spotless but her demons - past childhood trauma - MLC etc
was simply too strong to fight off.
Well, it seems this MLC or WAW thing is spreading like a pandemic.
Yesterday I heard from my sister, that her daughter's (my niece) friend's mother is in the hospital with a nervous breakdown.
This beautiful soul that was always smiling (we live in a small town and the faces are familiar) had her husband pull an MLC on her. He left children and her behind in pursuit of his "personal happiness ??".
I feel so tempted to go meet her in the hospital and tell her it will be OK, that I am currently going thru being a LBS and that it gets better, really. But she doesnt know me and she will wonder about how I found out, gossip sources etc.
But I feel so much pain for all the uninitiated that follow behind us in similar paths. Knowing how much pain and confusion we went thru its hard to see new people go thru it, without the support. Thank God, I had this forum, but I doubt she will have knowledge of English speaking forums online etc.
My sister always tells me that if she was in my shoes she knows she wouldnt have survived like I did.
Its still a struggle but thank God I found this forum.
Wondering if you guys have any advice on if I should help this woman and how to even begin.
Thanls
You have a kind heart towards your Niece's friend's mother. I think the best part of our horrible situations is how it allows us to have compassion for others in their suffering. Unless you're already close and have a friendship with her, I would let her be - and perhaps just pray for her (if that is something you do) or give your sister suggestions on how to help her. It might be strange for her to have that type of conversation with a relative stranger - she might (as you suggest) feel gossiped about. If you live near her and there's something practical and anonymous you could do for her - like cut her lawns - then perhaps that's an idea. I think a woman in that situation might need the friendship of another woman.
Thanks Alison.
What you said makes sense. Unfortunately I dont know her so any offering from me would seem creepy.
But in my mind I know what she is going thru, what all of us here went thru.
I remember the calming effect the veterans here had on me when I would come in here all panicked.
Replies starting with:
" Expect this to happen now..."
" Dont believe anything they say.."
"Protect yourself.. "
" You have been given the gift of time.."
helped me immensely.
I recently heard, "To be a much better physician, you need to be a patient." This is so true. Everyone of us here understands sorrow, suffering and grief like only a small percentage of people. We truly understand how awful divorce is, and how precious marriage is.
Wondering if you guys have any advice on if I should help this woman and how to even begin.
That's very kind of you to want to reach out, but I wouldn't. She's under medical care now so she will probably be going through counseling and getting medicated. Trying to help her with DB advice would likely just confuse her right now. Hopefully her medical attention will help her bounce back but it'll probably take some time to work.
Please start a new thread and link both threads together.
"Murphy, its you !"
I think in terms of movies alot.
This phrase is in my mind when I think about us LBS.
We see this alien who has abducted our spouse, irrational, confused, having thrown everything away.
This stone faced other creature, going mechanically thru the motions.
I am only talking about the spouses that were genuinely nice people to their wives/husbands but due to some deep childhood trauma or psychological disorder, couldn't cope and bailed on us.
Saw the wife the other day, and deep behind her eyes I saw a glimmer of that love. Kind of like she remembered some good stuff - the real story, not the script she has rewritten which is falling apart lately. The made up script is so unbelievable, she doesn't even believe it now.
I felt like tapping her on the shoulder and telling her something to the effect "Murphy, its you !"
For those that have seen the film Robocop, I think it will resonate.
Somewhere behind that armor of their indifference and hatred we see a glimpse of their former self.