Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: kettle6 This is the worst - 03/15/19 12:42 AM
I have been married for 10 years. My wife has been disabled for 9 of those years. There has been no intimacy because of her health for years. She caught me watching porn 'taking matters into my own hands' shall we say. Needless to say she hit the roof. She considers porn as cheating with a real person. I know I was wrong, but i didnt consider this cheating. I just have my needs. She says i have broken her trust, how could she have been so stupid to have trusted me ,im disgusting ...all of it. i confessed, i didnt try to hide it. i apologized.

She now tells me to go find a girlfriend. i dont want a girlfriend , i want her. She says i dont want her , i want porn.

Im doomed
Posted By: kettle6 This is the worst - 03/15/19 01:02 AM
I tried to post earlier, doesnt look like it worked.

Anyway, ive been married for 10 years. My wife hs been disabled for nine of those years. There has been virtually no intimacy for years. My wife caught me looking at porn 'taking matters into my own hands' shall we say. She hit the roof. She thinks that porn is the same as cheating on her with a real person.
Which i would never do and have never done. She feels that I betrayed her and she can no longer trust me.

i didnt try to hide anything and i admitted i was wrong. I tried to explain my side that i have needs , but she doesnt want to hear it. In her eyes , im disgusting and i broke up the marraige. She said i should go find a girlfriend but she wont go as far as saying get out. She says whats the point of working on the relationship since i already decided to end it by doing what i did.

Where do i go from here?
Posted By: Cadet Re: This is the worst - 03/15/19 01:08 AM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: This is the worst - 03/16/19 03:55 AM
Hi Kettle,

did your W ask for a divorce?

What are your moral opinions on pornography? Watching pornography is not the same as cheating, and I know that and you could ask all the folks here whose spouses actually had a physical affair.

I don't think porn is great for society or anything, but dang I wonder what the big deal is here.

Have you read Sex Starved Marriage by MWD?
Posted By: kettle6 Re: This is the worst - 03/17/19 12:07 AM
I dont think porn is a good, I just have needs sometimes and she is not willing or able. Not a great excuse, i know.

Wife didnt ask for divorce, probably because without my finances she wouldnt be able to survive. She truly thinks porn is the same as a physical affair. I cant convince her its not. Shes still really mad about it. She now thinks if im ever left alone im watching porn ( cheating on her)

I guess i could read the book youve mentioned, but I think i may be past the point.

Im getting the silent treatment , so im not sure if talking about it will make it worse. Shes set in her opinion about it for sure.
Posted By: kiro Re: This is the worst - 03/17/19 12:35 AM
Hi Kettle

When did this happen? How long has she been mad at you and giving you the silent treatment?

Your situation seems different than many people here. So I wouldn't advise to use the same approaches that we usually give. Detachment may not be the best approach for example in your case.

I actually think that MWD's books including Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting would be good for you. For most of us who are in much more advanced situations, a lot of the advice in these books cannot be applied because our spouses have already given up on us. So most of us only have (had) 1 option available to us, which is the Last Resort Technique, cutting all contact and detaching.

In your case, the fact that your wife is angry at you is actually a good thing. It means that she still cares.

This being said, in my opinion, the issue is deeper than porn. I think she is trying to tell you something. It would be good if some of the women in this forum give you some advice. They'll understand better how a woman feels and how to handle this situation.

Personally, I would suggest taking it slow, but showing her that you understand how she feels and that you care about her. Don't do anything major and don't bring up the problem again. Just listen to her, acknowledge what she is saying. Don't argue. Don't apologize again since you already did. Don't justify what you did. Don't ask her for anything at this point. Certainly, don't blame her for anything.

Compliment her but without exaggerating. Try to lighten the mood, but again without making her feel that you disregard how she feels. Keep conversations light and positive.

If there is something that she had been complaining about, try to fix it. Show her that you understand her and that you are trying your best. But do it mostly in action not in words.

But at the same time, keep your dignity. Don't be needy because it is not attractive. Take care of yourself, but stay modest. Don't complain or don't criticize.

I hope this helps. Let's see what others suggest.
Posted By: kiro Re: This is the worst - 03/17/19 12:40 AM
I have 1 more thing to add. If you want her back, this is not the time to solve your intimacy issue. First, you need to take care of your angry wife. And this will take time. When (hopefully), she starts feeling that you understand her and she starts warming up to you again and trusting you, then you can address your intimacy issue. And even then, I would suggest consulting a professional because this is complicated issue and can involve a lot of emotions on both sides.

For now, the fact that you bring up this issue seems defensive and doesn't help your case.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is the worst - 03/17/19 02:14 AM
Kettle, I have a pretty broad definition of cheating: anything you do that you wouldn't do with your spouse standing next to you is cheating.

Now the good news is that you can recover from this. 180 on your behavior. And work on yourself. There is a good chance that she will come around.

Keep posting, we'll give you support.
Posted By: kettle6 Re: This is the worst - 03/31/19 12:49 AM
She still thinks ive commited adultery and shes still upset. Im sick of this. Its hard to keep my composure and let her rage at me telling me that im no longer trustworthy. I try not to have any reaction. I try to agree that i see her point of veiw now, but she still wont to hear it. She will bang on the walls so that ' i know shes entering the room' , she doesnt want to 'catch me in the act'. I will never look at porn again now that I know how she feels about it- but she doesnt beleive me. She wants out of the marriage but knows she divorce because Im her only financial support.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: This is the worst - 03/31/19 04:16 PM
A quick look at the dictionary will tell you, her, and anyone that you did not commit adultery. It's somewhat understandable that she has hurt feelings over this. What's not making sense is that she doesn't understand that you have physical needs, an innate desire for sex. You cannot turn it off. She has not been an outlet for your sexual desire, yet she gets mad that after years of ignoring your needs that you masturbate? Excuse me little miss priss but that seems like a one way street. She's telling you that she expects you to never get off ever. That's BS! Now she's being all passive aggressive.

I think you two need to talk this one out like adults. And if this is her excuse to divorce you then you should say good riddance and get on with it woman but don't stay for my financial support b/c that's not what I'm here for.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is the worst - 03/31/19 05:35 PM
Ovr, that's great for a court of law. However, her perception is her reality. We can argue semantics until we are blue in the face, but we, he, or a dictionary can't tell her how to think and feel about this.

Kettle trying to convince her she is wrong about this likely will not get you closer to your goal of reconciliation. Keep your 180. And give it time. Eventually the rawness if this will fade.
Posted By: kettle6 Re: This is the worst - 04/08/19 06:28 PM
Still in the dog house. I'm afraid that this is going to be the new 'norm'. Not touching, walking on eggshells. Trying not to be alone in the house so she doesn't think I'm 'up to something'. This is exhausting.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/08/19 09:10 PM
Hi kettle,

Originally Posted by kiro
I would suggest taking it slow, but showing her that you understand how she feels and that you care about her. Don't do anything major and don't bring up the problem again. Just listen to her, acknowledge what she is saying. Don't argue. Don't apologize again since you already did. Don't justify what you did. Don't ask her for anything at this point. Certainly, don't blame her for anything.
Kiro is wise. This is what you do.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/08/19 09:20 PM
I agree that you most likely need different advise than most here.

Originally Posted by kettle6
Not touching
If this is her boundary. Respect it.

Quote
walking on eggshells.
Do not let fear control you. There are solutions to this. No more walking on eggshells. This is no way to live.

Quote
Trying not to be alone in the house so she doesn't think I'm 'up to something'.
Do not worry about what she thinks. Be home alone.

Quote
This is exhausting.
I am sure it is.


Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I think you two need to talk this one out like adults.
Yes. You need to learn to be communication expert. There are good ways and bad ways to communicate. Since we can't "advise" your wife, the burden is on you.


Read the boundaries thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096


Look over this book list and pick up a couple that sound like they would help you:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/08/19 09:32 PM
This is the best way I found for a sincere apology, learn this pattern
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2843321#Post2843321

IF SHE BRINGS IT UP AGAIN
Do not apologize for watching porn. Do not apologize for your self gratification activities. Apologize for hurting her feelings.

H"I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I do not want to hurt you."
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/08/19 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by kettle6
She still thinks Ive committed adultery and shes still upset. I'm sick of this. Its hard to keep my composure and let her rage at me telling me that im no longer trustworthy. I try not to have any reaction. I try to agree that i see her point of view now, but she still wont to hear it.
Your job as the H is the understand her. Your job is to let her release her emotions WITHOUT you feeding them back to her or amplifying them..

This line goes a long ways:
H "I am sorry you feel that"

You can say this:
"I see you are still angry" and she may get more agnry. Listen and validate.

Quote
She will bang on the walls so that ' i know shes entering the room' , she doesn't want to 'catch me in the act'.
You need to address this somehow.

I will keep this PG, but you should be able to figure out what I am talking about.

H"W: I am thirsty and I need a drink of water. I would prefer to drink water with you, but if you don't want to, I understand and I will drink my water alone in my room"


Typically men are aroused by the visual and woman are turn on by words. Men are like microwaves and women are like crock pots. As the man, your job is make your wife thirsty and then give her all water she needs. Then you can drink.
Posted By: kettle6 Re: This is the worst - 04/15/19 12:53 AM
More drama. Im almost ready to just leave, but I know she cant survive financially or healthwise( she has stage 4 cancer) without me. She only hears ,sees what she wants to. She asked me why didnt i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met. She said If she had know she wouldnt have married me. Now she feels stuck with me. I sometimes feel the same way, im stuck with her. Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?

I knew I was in trouble when we didnt even have sex the night of our wedding. I have no where else to go and i would be a horrible person if i left her. Im just emotional now and rambling i dont know what to do. Stay out late and just come home to sleep, avoid her as much as I can since shes not happy with me anymore? I dont want the drama anymore i just want my wife and friend back but it doesnt seem like things will ever be the same again.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is the worst - 04/15/19 01:56 PM
Time....time....time.

Sorry kettle, this is your only chance. Let time go by. Be patient. Without patience, which you seem to have in very short supply of, you are doomed to failure. NOTE: failure here is not losing your W. That very well may still happen. Nobody can tell you "DB and she will come around". However, failure means that no matter what happens with her, you learn NOTHING from this. And continue being the same ol' damaged and conflicted guy you were before all of this.

Here are my suggestions rather than "Stay out late and just come home to sleep, avoid her as much as I can since shes not happy with me anymore", how about:

1) Continue to be there for her. I am sorry, but your sitch is much different than most of ours here. Stage 4 cancer is very serious. You need to, no matter what she says or does, commit to making sure that no matter how her cancer turns out you can look back with NO regrets. Your "i would be a horrible person if i left her." is dead on. SO DON'T BE that guy. Continue to help her when she allows it. Don't go dark on a person that is potentially fighting for their life.

2) Get into IC. I don't remember if you are in IC or not, but porn addiction is no different than drug and alcohol addiction. Likely you will not beat it without professional help.

3) Get the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Read it. Study it. Take its suggestions and employ them. You certainly seem to have a case of Nice Guy Syndrome. This line is a clear indicator: "I knew I was in trouble when we didnt even have sex the night of our wedding." HUH? So if she doesn't have sex with you then you "are in trouble"? That my friend is the kind of expectation a NIce GUy would have. "I married her, she should give me sex!" Want to hear a dirty little secret? Many couples do not have sex the night of their wedding!! It is a long, stressful day, culminating several long stressful days and weeks leading up to the wedding. Many couples collapse in exhaustion the night of their wedding. I remember having a discussion about that at someone else's wedding. Out of 5 couples, my W and I were the only couple that had had sex the night of their wedding. Read the book. NGS is not what it sounds because it is FAR from being nice.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: This is the worst - 04/15/19 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by kettle6
I have been married for 10 years. My wife has been disabled for 9 of those years. There has been no intimacy because of her health for years. She caught me watching porn 'taking matters into my own hands' shall we say. Needless to say she hit the roof. She considers porn as cheating with a real person. I know I was wrong, but i didnt consider this cheating. I just have my needs. She says i have broken her trust, how could she have been so stupid to have trusted me ,im disgusting ...all of it. i confessed, i didnt try to hide it. i apologized.


Hi Kettle, I used to listen to Chuck Swindoll a lot and in one of his sermons he said he was one of the speakers at a convention of young men who were in school to become pastors. Most were married. They gave out an anonymous questionnaire to the attendees towards the end of the week-long convention. One of the questions was whether they had viewed porn while on this religious retreat. I'm sure they all figured "well it's anonymous so no one will know who said yes and who said no so I'll be truthful." So on the last day, Chuck Swindoll announced the poll results and 100%, every single attendee, at a RELIGIOUS convention, watched porn while AT the convention. I'm sure the guilt in the room was palpable when that statistic was revealed, LOL! My point is this- darned near everyone views porn. If you have some religious guilt hangup about it then that's your business, but if you don't then don't let your W or anyone else "shame" you into it. You were watching it guilt-free thinking you were doing your W a favor, right? It was a way for you to find gratification without putting pressure on her to do so given her medical condition. Your W needs to be educated on this subject, if she expects you to live in a sexless marriage and never watch porn and never masturbate, then she has EXTREMELY unrealistic expectations, ones that pretty much no man would meet.

Quote
She now tells me to go find a girlfriend. i dont want a girlfriend , i want her. She says i dont want her , i want porn.


Is she in IC? She really should be given that she has cancer. If she is in IC then encourage her to discuss this with her counselor as I suspect her counselor will help set her straight on this subject and what her expectations should be.

She clearly feels hurt and upset and I am by no means saying you should ignore her feelings, but you should listen and validate WITHOUT accepting blame. Listen to her, acknowledge that you hear her feelings and you understand why she feels the way she does. That's it, don't try to justify/ explain/ argue/ reason/ negotiate. Encourage her to discuss it with a counselor.

Quote
She asked me why didnt i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met. She said If she had know she wouldnt have married me.


Then she would either not be married or would be married to someone else not telling her about it. Again don't try to reason with her. Just say things like "it sounds like you're really upset about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes, I feel like I've been betrayed!" "That sounds very difficult, I am sorry you feel that way." This is putting the focus on her FEELINGS, not on what she perceives as transgressions.

Quote
Now she feels stuck with me. I sometimes feel the same way, im stuck with her. Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?


Keep in mind that this could be because she is going through stage 4 cancer. Don't discount the possibility that this has nothing to do with you watching porn and everything to do with her facing her own mortality and being scared and worried and extremely angry, and looking for someone/ something to vent her anger on. I am not justifying her actions, but I am saying there may be more to this than meets the eye.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/15/19 10:27 PM
AS is point on.

Originally Posted by kettle6
More drama.
You are the man. Your job is to emotionally handle the drama. Calmly. Let her emotions flood out while you are calm. Back in the day we said "put your raincoat on" and get ready to hear everything under the sun. Listen to understand her. I will bet she is scared. Having cancer has to be scary. I bet she is angry. Let her be emotional. This has nothing to do with you and everythig to do with how you handle it.

Quote
Im almost ready to just leave
Do not let your feelings lead you. Lead by your core values and empathy.

Quote
She only hears ,sees what she wants to.
That is HER story. That does not mean it is the truth. That does not mean you have to agree. That does not mean you have to argue. That does not mean you have to explain your story. It only means to listen to understand her.

Quote
She asked me why didn't i tell her about the porn 18 years ago when we met.
If she asks, then "I can't change the past. I didn't mean to hurt you. I am sorry."


Quote
Was I just supposed to come out of the blue and discuss porn with her?
The timing wasn't right. It sounds like you have that opportunity now. AS had good advise.



Quote
I knew I was in trouble when we didn't even have sex the night of our wedding.
Did you address this, or just ignore the issue?

Quote
I don't want the drama anymore
To bad. Just don't pull the rope. Let her be emotional while you are the rock. Be confident. Project strength. Listen without judgement.[/quote]

Quote
I just want my wife and friend back but it doesn't seem like things will ever be the same again.
Things are constantly changing. This is a phase and will pass. Love your wife. She needs you now more than ever.
Posted By: kettle6 Re: This is the worst - 04/23/19 07:17 PM
Ugh she accused me again of 'behaving badly' and I did nothing. Shes 'seeing things' through the bathroom door. Or seeing me walk around naked ( which I never do) How do I defend myself from false accusations? Im not supposed to defend my self but just listen to her rant?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is the worst - 04/23/19 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by kettle6
Ugh she accused me again of 'behaving badly' and I did nothing. Shes 'seeing things' through the bathroom door. Or seeing me walk around naked ( which I never do) How do I defend myself from false accusations? Im not supposed to defend my self but just listen to her rant?


Listen. Validate. Rinse. Repeat.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is the worst - 04/23/19 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by kettle6
Ugh she accused me again of 'behaving badly' and I did nothing. Shes 'seeing things' through the bathroom door. Or seeing me walk around naked ( which I never do) How do I defend myself from false accusations? Im not supposed to defend my self but just listen to her rant?
If you share her exact phrases, we can help draft up responses.
Posted By: SoTorn Re: This is the worst - 04/23/19 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by kettle6
Ugh she accused me again of 'behaving badly' and I did nothing. Shes 'seeing things' through the bathroom door. Or seeing me walk around naked ( which I never do) How do I defend myself from false accusations? Im not supposed to defend my self but just listen to her rant?


Listen. Validate. Rinse. Repeat.


This.
© DivorceBusting.com