Hello everyone,
I will outline my sitch and see if I can explain where I am .
1 year ago I checked out of my relationship with my woman . We have been together 7 years and I delayed getting married ( she wanted to ) I moved into the spare room and became increasingly detached from the world . I had a drink problem that got worse over time . 2 weeks ago I discovered my F was in a sexual relationship with a younger man . She says it is just a bit of fun ........ I haven’t touched a drop yet and went to the doctors and got referred to a specialist. She helped me and is supportive. I am due to meet the dependency clinic on Thursday. So for a year I have put this wonderful woman through hell and it is breaking my heart . All the usual, cannot eat , sleep , mind on this constantly . We have spent time together,even gone out twice to a restaurant. She says she has no loving feelings towards me and I agree . She reached out to me many times in the year from hell , but in the end I pushed her away
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks very much for the acknowledgement and threads . I have been lurking a while and read through a lot of the links . I have DR and have been using some of the suggestions , but it is very hard
I haven’t touched a drop yet and went to the doctors and got referred to a specialist.
All I can say is this is bad but please DO NOT start drinking again as that is not the solution.
Come here and post instead.
We have discussed selling up before BD and I just played lip service , she knew this also . She is scared of her financial future going forward . I made all the usual promises of change and how I would spoil her to make up
Cadet , no chance , that has ruined my life . I guess I am grateful for BD because I wouldn’t have lasted long
I asked for 2 weeks 1 week ago to give me a second chance . I know she has just said this so I won’t go back to drinking, but it has given me false hope
We have discussed selling up before BD and I just played lip service , she knew this also . She is scared of her financial future going forward . I made all the usual promises of change and how I would spoil her to make up
The problem I have is I was in effect a wah. So my 180 is listening to her , validating and supporting her BUT it is draining when I am distraught and she is conversing on her phone with her new friends she has made . I asked in the 2 weeks to not see OM whilst she decided. She said she was unwilling to give up something that makes her happy , which is fair enough
She has also told me she wants to see my changes over a longer period. I did say the ILY , and she softly said @i know”
I think she was having phones sex with Om last night in the living room .should I ask if she was and say it was in appropriate ?
She has also told me she wants to see my changes over a longer period. I did say the ILY , and she softly said @i know”
Right now you've got to remove all pressure. Stop talking to her about your changes, about the R, about OM, etc. Don't say ILY. Like she said, she knows. When you say it you are putting pressure on her to say it back and right now she doesn't want to. Just pull back and give her time and space while you work on your issues.
You have got to show her changed behavior over a very long period of time (months or even a year or more) before she'll start to believe you've really changed. Just about any alcoholic can go a week or two or even a month without drinking and it takes little effort. Going several months while dealing with the ups and downs of life, well that's more difficult. A year or more, now you're talking about real change.
It took her a long time to get to this point and she's not going to change her mind overnight. It's going to take a lot of time.
Am I understanding correctly that the two of you never got married? Any kids? How long have you been dating (7 years)? Has the drinking been a problem throughout? What are your ages?
Thanks for taking the time to answer . Both 45 , she has two kids Sd at home 17 , ss 22 lives away . Was an occasional drinker before but the last 6 months it took me . You are right, it will take time , but I am impatient:). At the gym for first time in about 10 years:)
We were engaged but I said we didn’t have the money to get married .....
Thanks for taking the time to answer . Both 45 , she has two kids Sd at home 17 , ss 22 lives away . Was an occasional drinker before but the last 6 months it took me . You are right, it will take time , but I am impatient:). At the gym for first time in about 10 years:)
Has she gone through menopause yet? She may be about to start, that could be a contributing factor. Not to say you shouldn't continue with your changes, you absolutely should.
If the drinking has only been going on for 6 months then that should make it easier to convince her (through actions) that you've really changed, because you're not trying to reverse a bad pattern that's been there throughout the M. She might see it more as it having been a temporary situation if you stick with your sobriety.
Believe me I understand the impatience! Most of us here can identify with that :-) The time will seem to drag by as you go through it but a year from now you'll look back and think it passed quickly. BD and the aftermath seemed to crawl at a snail's pace when I went through that, but all these years later it seems like a blip on the radar of time.
I think she was having phones sex with Om last night in the living room .should I ask if she was and say it was in appropriate ?
What would that achieve?
Early on in my sitch, my W on a Friday night went into our guest bathroom. Up until a a few weeks before BD the woman never took her phone into the bathroom. She was in and out of the bathroom no matter what (1 or 2). But on this particular night she went into the guest bathroom. This was 13 days past BD. She was in there for a long time. I just knew she was in there taking picures and sending them to OM.
About a month later I found the evidence in her online photos trashcan. I didn't even confront her then I saved it until several weeks later. It just wouldn't have accomplished anything. So if she was, what do you think confronting will do? DBing is about doing the opposite of what you think you should do. Better yet, doing NOTHING. Doing nothing is always better than doing the wrong thing, and is almost as good as doing the right thing. Better yet, doing nothing is safer than thinking you are doing the right thing but really doing the wrong thing.
Tryhard, how is GAL coming along?
Listen to AS. He was a big part of me getting through my sitch.
Listen to AS. He was a big part of me getting through my sitch.
Agree with Steve.
AS has been incredibly helpful towards me and my sitch—do listen to him.
Thanks guys , I guess I need to slow down , I am going left down up right back to front , all my mind is on this , I need to slooooow down .
Thank you Steve and Bo, I really appreciate the kind words!!
Thanks guys , I guess I need to slow down , I am going left down up right back to front , all my mind is on this , I need to slooooow down .
Yes! That's a big part of DBing is just realizing this isn't an emergency and pressing the right button isn't what is needed to resolve it. Like Cadet posts in all the intros, you have the gift of time. Like he also posts, it's a marathon. It's a long, difficult path ahead and many of us have walked it and many more are now walking it with you. As far as I know, no one's head has exploded from it ;-) Everyone has survived and most have emerged better, happier people for the journey. You will too!
The problem is my 180’s are to spend time with her , listening, validating , supporting . The problem with this is 1) I feel like a broken man , 2) this could turn me into the man BF , and she would be happy with that . Ivor gal. Not much so far , gym today , work party last week ( no drinking) , this Saturday I have an opportunity to play poker with some old friends, I have been swarming her with checking what she is doing, I know I shouldn’t but I couldn’t help myself, but won’t do it again
I am , that was a great link , I guess I need to face what it is . Suck up the pain and try and learn . It is hard when battling no sleep and lack of appetite
Goals : Action
Gym : Every other day.
Eat : Force myself even when i don;t feel like it.
Appearance : Take better care and dress better.
Outlook : Smile more and let the things i have no control over or fear off LET GO.
Fix : The things in the house i have let slide. (seperate list) at least 1 step a day.
Sleep : Try Herbal remedy tablets.
Read : Not only read but take in the useful posts here and try and absorb the messages.
Any help on how to deal with tonight? I am tired , and feeling broken, my stomach is in knots. Showing her I am a happy, confident man that wants the best for us is going to be tough
Tryhard,
seeing as you have a chemical addiction problem, I'd pass on the herbal sleep aids. Learn your body and learn to live without adding substances to deal with life!
As for exuding confidence when you aren't feeling confident I'd suggest changing your body language. Run in place, put both hands in the air and yell like you just hit the home run in game 7 of the world series. Smile! Make yourself laugh. Do this for 2 minutes, then go in the house. Seriously. Emotions effects our body language but it also works the other way too. That's why people who spend time on the phone working are told to smile when they talk, it change their voice inflection and the way people hear us.
Thanks ovrrnbww, sounds like sage advice . I need to get to grips with myself
Any help on how to deal with tonight? I am tired , and feeling broken, my stomach is in knots. Showing her I am a happy, confident man that wants the best for us is going to be tough
Is there something in particular going on tonight or are you just asking how to act around her in general? Early on you can't completely hide the fact that you are hurting, and it's OK for her to know that. I mean if she didn't think you were hurting she might wonder what was wrong with you. Just try not to cry in front of her or be overly needy around her. Of course you're sad and she knows you're sad, but put on the best face you can and show inner strength.
AS . No , I said I would cook us dinner, I didn’t sleep well last night , I had a dream that I had lost her in a vast holiday complex and couldn’t find her , my midriff is hurting a bit from the gym and my stomach is hurting from the pain .
I also made a big mistake last night of misinterpreting something she said as that she had re chosen me as her man , stupid mistake, but it brought me down a bit . But it has taught me to not hold on to every little signal as a yes or no , nasty little rollercoaster that one
So I gave an ultimatum last week , give me a chance , but I will not continue if you sleep with other men . We agreed 2 weeks which expires Saturday. In some ways I regret it , but I will not continue trying whilst she sleeps with someone else . She responded that she didn’t know and didn’t want to give up her fling “ there’s nothing in it , it’s not like that “ really ? Anyway the downside of this is I guess she is free until then to what she likes even if she then throws me a further maybe line then . I understand in a way that she needs to see I have changed , she said this . But I cannot continue if she does so am considering pulling the plug if she does from now on . Any thoughts?
Just an update , things went well , I validated her criticisms of my cooking techniques;) . Had a nice family meal at the table . Me and SD did most of the convos. It was good XF kept quiet . Just didn’t register or ask her anything and carried on enjoying it . Stripped wallpaper above a door that had been outstanding for a while . Was good to do something that took my mind off things . Did it as best I could and cleaned up afterwards. XF was hanging just out of site , so just carried on as if all was ok . Made her and myself a coffee , read part of a new book of inspirational quotes . Said goodnight and went to bed
So I gave an ultimatum last week , give me a chance , but I will not continue if you sleep with other men . We agreed 2 weeks which expires Saturday. In some ways I regret it , but I will not continue trying whilst she sleeps with someone else . She responded that she didn’t know and didn’t want to give up her fling “ there’s nothing in it , it’s not like that “ really ? Anyway the downside of this is I guess she is free until then to what she likes even if she then throws me a further maybe line then . I understand in a way that she needs to see I have changed , she said this . But I cannot continue if she does so am considering pulling the plug if she does from now on . Any thoughts?
So an ultimatum means that you gave her a deadline. And that you will take some actions following the deadline. Otherwise your ultimatum will make you look weak. Which means she won't respect you. Which means she won't regain attraction to you.
I am not against ultimatums IF you are willing to follow through. However there are problems with them. For instance, a lot of times the behavior you are trying to control with the ultimatum (and yes it is a form of control) just goes deeper undercover. She doesn't stop the affair she just gets better about covering her tracks. Second, lots of of LBSs don't mean what they say, they just use it as a way to control their WAS. This NEVER works.
So if you really mean what you say, "If you don't end it with him this weekend, I will file for D on Monday." And then put parameters on it. a) I want to help you write and send a cease and desist message. b) I want full access to your phone for full transparency. c) I want GPS tracking enabled (lots of apps do this) so I know where you are at all times.
Likely the WAS will not agree to those and you will be filing for D on Monday. If you don't then it looks weak, etc. Most ultimatums backfire gloriously. So please consult with the board before pulling the trigger on things like ultimatums.
Just an update , things went well , I validated her criticisms of my cooking techniques;) . Had a nice family meal at the table . Me and SD did most of the convos. It was good XF kept quiet . Just didn’t register or ask her anything and carried on enjoying it . Stripped wallpaper above a door that had been outstanding for a while . Was good to do something that took my mind off things . Did it as best I could and cleaned up afterwards. XF was hanging just out of site , so just carried on as if all was ok . Made her and myself a coffee , read part of a new book of inspirational quotes . Said goodnight and went to bed
Any plans for GAL activities?
Thanks Steve , I do kind of regret it . But at the end of the day , it is something I cannot cope with . It destroys me . I have to what is best for me otherwise I will be a wreck each time she goes . Any overnight stays away or such will be the end . When she said she couldn’t decide I said fine but tell me if you sleep with him ( I may have put it more crudely) she looked away and said yup in a strange way . I do trust her to be honest. If she is not then I don’t want to be with her . She did say the truth would come out in the end . So with my mind full time on this I did analyze her thought process in this . I don’t want it to be this way , but there will be consequences for any bad actions. I am just forcing myself to hold on until Sunday. I can stand limbo , but not with anyone else in the picture . Gym later for me after work
Word of warning to anyone, snooping is NOT good , but I cannot help it . Winding myself up with all the possibles
She gave me a kiss on the cheek last night as I left her to read ........maybe reaching out maybe not , but not taking that as any sort of major step
I at the clinic tomorrow, so my fear is she is just doing this to get me there then she can say she was the good one in all this and “fixed” me LOLOLOL it’s me fixing me
My ultimatum was no ******** other men . I don’t need to check phones or whereabouts. As I said if I am being lied to on this then there will be consequences, no me for a start . See if toyboy will support her , because I won’t .
Stbxf has left her bedroom door open last couple of nights . No taking cheeseless tunnels for me, done that 3 times , didn’t end well , I read that skin to skin contact could build intamacy, LOL how pathetic. No wonder I didn’t get what I hoped for . I guess it’s how long my love can stand being a gay bff . I have hope but it’s down to her . No more secret phone messaging that is obvious. Well I ain’t no fool . She is a big girl , don’t choose me fine . I will be hurt for a week 2 a month or two , but I will make a great life and can’t wait , she has the option of coming for the ride , if not I will do it on my own .
Well I ain’t no fool . She is a big girl , don’t choose me fine . I will be hurt for a week 2 a month or two , but I will make a great life and can’t wait , she has the option of coming for the ride , if not I will do it on my own .
I think maybe you've lost sight of why you ended up here. You're making it sound like she's making a huge mistake by missing out on you, but let's look back at your first post:
"1 year ago I checked out of my relationship with my woman ."
" I moved into the spare room and became increasingly detached from the world"
"I had a drink problem that got worse over time"
"I am due to meet the dependency clinic on Thursday"
"So for a year I have put this wonderful woman through hell and it is breaking my heart"
"She reached out to me many times in the year from hell , but in the end I pushed her away"
It's great that you were so honest and forthright about your issues, but your last several posts make it sound like you think you are perfect and it's up to her whether to take it or leave it. Step one of DB'ing- OWN YOUR PROBLEMS. Step two of DB'ing- DO 180's ON YOUR PROBLEMS. You are broken, and you need to work on you and become whole again. Your relationship needs to go on the back burner while you rebuild your life and become attractive again. So rather than focusing on whether she left her door open or not, or if she's seeing "toyboy" how about telling us what you are doing to become the best man you can be and overcome your problems.
Well I ain’t no fool . She is a big girl , don’t choose me fine . I will be hurt for a week 2 a month or two , but I will make a great life and can’t wait , she has the option of coming for the ride , if not I will do it on my own .
I think maybe you've lost sight of why you ended up here. You're making it sound like she's making a huge mistake by missing out on you, but let's look back at your first post:
"1 year ago I checked out of my relationship with my woman ."
" I moved into the spare room and became increasingly detached from the world"
"I had a drink problem that got worse over time"
"I am due to meet the dependency clinic on Thursday"
"So for a year I have put this wonderful woman through hell and it is breaking my heart"
"She reached out to me many times in the year from hell , but in the end I pushed her away"
It's great that you were so honest and forthright about your issues, but your last several posts make it sound like you think you are perfect and it's up to her whether to take it or leave it. Step one of DB'ing- OWN YOUR PROBLEMS. Step two of DB'ing- DO 180's ON YOUR PROBLEMS. You are broken, and you need to work on you and become whole again. Your relationship needs to go on the back burner while you rebuild your life and become attractive again. So rather than focusing on whether she left her door open or not, or if she's seeing "toyboy" how about telling us what you are doing to become the best man you can be and overcome your problems.
THIS^^^^^^^
Go read what I just wrote to AnthonyA. Tryhard, those that focus on OM are doomed to a crash burn failure of epic proportions. OM are not your problem!! Her heart is. Even if she stays away from OM, if her heart is far away then it doesn't matter. Fixating on OM, obsessing about it, and issuing toothless ultimatums are NOT attractive.....at all! It makes you look weak, whiny, and needy. The exact opposite of what you need to be to her right now. Do the 180s on yourself as AS says. GAL like a madman. This shows you are going to go on living no matter what she decides (much stronger than weak, whiny and needy!). And then detach. Her actions, with or without OM, SHOULD have no emotional impact on you whatsoever. I know that is easier said than done, but until you get there you will be viewed by her as a weak, whiny, needy snooper. Would that be attractive to you?
Thanks , the problem is I cannot face the pain . I have been through hell . I will do my best , if it means that she goes then I will have to live with that . I cannot be the bff when she is sleeping with someone else . I have to protect myself , take the hit and move on . I’m a good guy , not perfect but I will be fine . It will be a new life and in a couple of years I am sure things will be good . I will take in what you have said though and appreciate the support
Tryhard, we've all been there. Look at all of us that post here, we've been through it. Our pain was exactly like yours. You can get through. But the problem is that if your goal is to ease the pain, you will make decision based on that. Then in a year, when you are D'd, you will look back and wonder "if I had just endured the pain for a little while longer, maybe".
I know we live in a society today that is always looking for a way to end pain. Opiates are rampant. People self medicate with drugs and alcohol. We have epidurals for childbirth. The truth is that sometimes pain endurance is necessary. And I believe in the case of the end of a marriage, pain is a reality. But the pain of wondering if you have done enough is just as real.
Steve, appreciate what you have said and will follow , thanks for the guidance. I am impatient, but I am fixing and bettering myself . Not touched a drop for 1 day off 3 weeks , signed up and gone to gym , fixing up the house , validating and helping her as much as I can . Out on Saturday night playing poker with a bunch of guys , Sunday visiting mum . If I can get more settled emotionally I can progress at work . I am only a man , the only support I have is here
Ok need to know what I do next , GAL I guess ?
Had a great day with W . I did suggest some intamcy but she said she was confused so I backed off . She says she needs more time . You may think I am doing this wrong, but I have to prove that I do want her after abandoning her . She leaves her phone ( locked) with me whenever she goes out the room etc . I guess she knows how I feel . Next steps ? Keep going keep busy . I will give her space and time .
Not touched a drop for 1 day off 3 weeks , signed up and gone to gym , fixing up the house , validating and helping her as much as I can . Out on Saturday night playing poker with a bunch of guys , Sunday visiting mum .
Great!!
Ok need to know what I do next , GAL I guess ?
More of what you wrote above. Keep at it, it'll help you change your focus from W to your life. Work on yourself, and most of all, be patient.
Had a great day with W . I did suggest some intamcy but she said she was confused so I backed off . She says she needs more time . You may think I am doing this wrong, but I have to prove that I do want her after abandoning her
Nope, you are definitely doing that wrong. You are falling into the typical trap of trying to convince yourself that pursuit behavior is OK in your case because it's a 180 on the lack of pursuit in the M. But this is faulty thinking and will just damage your relationship further. Here's the deal, in a healthy relationship if you get in a fight then what works to repair things? Buying flowers, apologizing, taking her out to a romantic dinner, having some sex. So your brain is now programmed to think that's the solution to all marital problems. But dealing with a WAS is unlike anything you have ever encountered in your relationship. She is completely done with you, can't stand being around you and is repulsed by the thought of having sex with you. The ONLY thing that will fix that is to give her time and space while you work on yourself. SHOW HER that you are a better person, allow her to be attracted to THAT. It takes a lot of time so you must be abundantly patient.
I will give her space and time .
Quit saying it and start doing it. DB'ing isn't about words, it's about ACTION.
Absolutely correct AS . I can’t give much of an update as I had planned , but will as soon as I can , thanks !!
So an update. Went out for dinner a couple of nights ago and every time she left the table she left her phone purposely behind . I guess I wasn’t able to hide me reactions to her phone as that has been her “secret” communication method “ later in the evening the phone rang a few times and she kept hanging up . She panicked a bit on one as she accidentally accepted it before closing it . I must admit I felt better , but I am no fool and making anything from it.
Last night F was supposed to stay at her sisters with SD . I did ask if she was seeing her bf , sorry couldn’t help myself , she said no how could I . Well I know people will go to great lengths for their desire. So ambivalent about that . Got back from the gym and was preparing a relaxing evening to recuperate without her . Soon she came back as she had argued with her sister so was spending the night at home . I asked if she was going out later and she said no she had no plans . I kept myself a bit distant and carried on with my plans .
As we were talking she did the rewriting of history and started bringing up things I had done a long time ago ( I kicked a door in anger ) I validated her as best I could. I think that’s where reading other peoples stories prepares you for what it to come . Complete building the path today then tidy up , eat , watch a film ( maybe a snooze
) then poker with a group of old buddies later .
I guess I am just a delusional fool . I think she is just so nice she doesn’t want to hurt me and I am hoping for hope when there is none . Why can’t I face the truth ?
it is so hard to be this vulnerable, isn't it? I don't have any advice, but I know what it feels like.
Thanks Alison , love back at ya !
I know that I tell myself lots of stories about what is happening with me and H.
I decide that he's cake eating, and that any attempts on his part to be warm or kind with me are just manipulative and he doesn't really love me and doesn't really want to commit.
Then I decide he's actually a bit mentally unwell with stress and anxiety and I've really not supported him well enough at all and I need to show him as much support as I can while not expecting too much back from him right now.
Then I think he's behaved terribly towards me (and he has) and I am an utter idiot for even wanting to R and I should move ahead as quickly as possible to divorce.
Then I think all the DB stuff is right and I just need to drop the rope and get on with my life and if he comes to me, I will see what I feel like if and when that happens.
And I can't get my mind to settle on one of these things and I go backwards and forwards and make myself exhausted and upset with it all.
And that is just the way it is for me right now.
People keep saying that time is my friend and I am just trying to take care of myself and be kind and not make any irrevocable decisions or tolerate any behaviour that damages me until things become clearer.
I suspect my H is in a similar state to the one I am in.
What you say makes a lot of sense . We are all human and I guess are indecisive in these things . The DB stuff is right I guess , because we become better people either way . I guess we are just waiting and hoot, I don’t know , I think in a couple of months things will be better , I just don’t know , it’s just so painful
It really is.
I know I need to do some more work on myself to resolve my emotional reactivity - not to change my mind about a decision every single time I get a different emotion. It's a huge flaw of mine and something that made it impossible for H to feel emotionally safe with me.
So I think whatever happens I'm not in a fit state to be in a R right now and I won't be until I do that work.
Makes sense , I guess we are all over the place on the rollercoaster. Not fun , but if we come out stronger the other side better
Been a good day , fixed the leaking pipe from the bathroom, finished the pathway , tidied up . Not communicated with F today ( give her space and time ) still wondering what she is doing. Gym and get ready for Monday. I was feeling down as I expect her to come back and say she is done . Not in my control I guess . Need to be strong, hope for the best , prepare for the worst .i am going for a long walk as I don’t want to be in when she returns Good luck everyone
So F is back and all was ok . I know she is not attracted to me . Only hurts a little. A mutual friend rang and asked about how I and F were getting on , I said good , he asked if we were back together and I avoided the question, he asked about her so I said she is beside me and passed the phone to her , he asked a few questions and no was repeated a few times ...... tbh for her saying no is the answer to give . I know she has instinctively said I need to gain weight and I am doing what I can , 4000 cals a day when I don’t feel hungry is a battle but I am doing it . I need help on how to build attraction , she works in a male dominated sports area where the guys are “big” . If anyone can help me on how to build attraction it would be a great help ? google is a bit haphazard !!
A mutual friend rang and asked about how I and F were getting on , I said good , he asked if we were back together and I avoided the question
Good, you don't want to have R discussions with mutual friends. You handled that well.
I know she has instinctively said I need to gain weight and I am doing what I can , 4000 cals a day when I don’t feel hungry is a battle but I am doing it .
We all go through the "DB diet" for a few months after DB. It's OK (well not really, it's not the healthiest diet to be on) if you need to lose weight because it just flies off, but it's murder if you don't want to lose weight because you can't even hardly force yourself to eat. Just be patient, your appetite will return with time.
I need help on how to build attraction , she works in a male dominated sports area where the guys are “big” . If anyone can help me on how to build attraction it would be a great help ?
Well but that doesn't mean she's particularly attracted to that. Most people have a "type" that they are attracted to. Apparently you are her type or she wouldn't have been drawn to you to begin with. So gaining 50 pound of muscle may very well turn her off. So don't try to be something you're not, instead try to be the best "you" that you can be. Dress nicely, keep yourself well-groomed, be clean, smell good. Eat well and stay fit. Do things to regain your confidence, this is where GAL is key. Get out and do stuff with friends, it'll help you to feel better about yourself.
Of the couples I know that reconciled, there was one key ingredient that worked- TIME. Really that was it. The men didn't do anything particularly out of the ordinary, they just eventually moved on and later down the road their spouses wanted back.
So true , I have been telling myself this . AS you are a truly great person . I have kind of messed up though already. I have arranged for a carpenter to replace a door that was in a shocking state today . I texted her to remind her . She seemed fine I kept short . 30 mins later I accidentally rang her mobile . I hung up quickly hoping it hadn’t gone through, the. She rang back and said she was returning my call. I said it was a mistake, but gave details on the door, she asked what time I would be back which was a trigger for me as my initial thought was she was arranging to meet om . I said I would get a celebratory take away for us , she said SD was out for the night , so I blurted out that we should go out ourselves. She said fine ,she I said hope your day was good so far , she said it was a bit “bittty” and slow . I said ok gotta get to work and said Catch you later .
I think the om part was just paranoia, I would hope that she wouldn’t do that then go for a meal with me . I guess if it was true then I wouldn’t want to be with anyone that would do that so it will be fine
I wish I hadn’t offered as I was planning on having an early night , and now I have to act if , he the best version of me whilst my heart is broken with the woman I adore who has rejected me . I will have to remind myself of zero expectations and just enjoy it as best I can .
I would work on getting her respect first. She wont be attracted to you unless she respects you.
I would work on getting her respect first. She wont be attracted to you unless she respects you.
Thanks TB , this is one of my weak points . Any suggestions on how to do this ?
7 years ago she had to of respected you to marry you. What where you like then? How have you changed?
I am not sure how to answer this . There are different layers to this and without any type of assistance I think it will be just another sink hole for me and my thinking
Um...ok. Well what do you think you need to do to get her respect?
AS you are a truly great person
Thank you! You know it's funny but after reading No More Mister Nice Guy whenever someone tells me I'm nice or great or something I always want to quickly reply "NO I'M NOT"
I have kind of messed up though already.
Don't sweat it, no one thing got you to this place in your M and no one thing is going to ruin your recon chances either.
so I blurted out that we should go out ourselves. She said fine ,she I said hope your day was good so far , she said it was a bit “bittty” and slow . I said ok gotta get to work and said Catch you later .
That's OK, it's fine to go, just don't have any expectations that it means anything.
I wish I hadn’t offered as I was planning on having an early night , and now I have to act if , he the best version of me whilst my heart is broken with the woman I adore who has rejected me . I will have to remind myself of zero expectations and just enjoy it as best I can .
Yes exactly. Just remember, that's a reflection of how she feels right NOW, it could change in a few months or year. So take a long-term view, you may very well recon down the road. Lots of LBS's have reconciled but every single one of them thought at some point that it was all over.
AS I do understand this , so much easier to see things as they are when you past the hurt . Maybe it is detachment. Glad the changes were for me also
So last night went well , we had a good time , we even danced !!! Later on she got a text of about 60 words , she replied with one word about 6 or 8 characters and then her mood took a turn downwards . I tried to get her to dance again and I said dance with me and say goodbye. She said not to this song . It was getting late so carried on small jokes etc and mentioned that we should think about how to market our home . She has made intimations about long term things , but I am not sleeping in the small guest room forever whilst she continues to decide forever
You never answered my question. What do you think you need to do to get her respect?
The answer is , I don’t know . I guess I need to be a man of action like I was before and am now . I am getting things done
Look my friend if you don't know you need to do some soul searching because only you know how you are showing up in the R. Start with the most basic thing that you dislike about yourself or want to change and begin there. Are you fat? Are you lazy? Do you earn a decent living? If you have kids what kind of a parent are you? How do you dress? Does your W wear the pants? Are you a "YES" man? Do you stand up for yourself? Have you put your W on a pedestal? Are you depressed? Do you make her laugh? Do you respect her? Do you make time for her? Are you truthful with her? Can she TRUST you?
You said you checked out of your marriage and you have a drinking problem. How did you check out of your marriage? It sounds like from what I have read you have told her you would do certain things in the past and did not follow through on your word. If that is the case can she trust you and feel secure in your relationship?
Yes you are right , I have been doing the things now that I should have been doing . She has been sending pics of the path I built etc to her friends and family. I have also fixed a couple of things that she doesn’t know about yet . I am soldiering on dood , I guess in my moments of weakness I post here and obviously I don’t post when I am galing or doing my business
Good for you it's a start but you will need to do more than just fix some things around the house.
It's good that you have done some things that she doesn't know about yet. Good, don't tell her. Let her find out when she finds out. You don't want to give her the impression you are doing these things for her in order to win her back.
How else are you showing up in the R? Can she trust you? Can she feel secure with you?
She did say a couple of days ago that she trusts me . It came out of the blue and was concerning me not drinking. I do appreciate your guidance btw , been valuable. She saw me as her hero that would save her . Sorting things out for her . She hides from certain things , for example she wouldn’t read an email from an angry client whose order she had messed up , I said I would read it for her and help her retrieve the situation. It wasn’t bad and we got it sorted . She expects help with her car , but no opportunity for that yet . I validate her when she complains about her work all the time ( which I didn’t before)
Off to the gym later , I always feel better afterwards, looking at getting a sunbed session and getting a corn removed from my foot Saturday. Need to go shopping and get some new clothes and shoes .
Friday painting the garage , new battery for my car . I am by nature very honest. The security is an issue I guess , I did check out on her after all . She knows I don’t bad mouth her or put her down . I also keep my word . So I understand she should have doubts , I guess I just have to keep on . TB i truly appreciate your time and input in helping me btw
Well I don't know that I helped you any as the only thing that you indicated you needed to do was fix some stuff around the house and that you guess you checked out on her.
Part of this process is self-reflection and maybe you have you just are not good at articulating it.
Best of luck.
Ok I guess I know the answer to this but I suspect she is going to meet om , I am going to check and verify,
I did check up and she was with SD . I should have trusted her
. She told me tonight she is going to stay with her cousin on Friday night ....so another trigger for me to deal with . So there is probably a chance that I am being a fool and being a gay bff whilst she does her clandestine stuff . That would bring me down with a crash. I was going to ask advice about attraction but I think she is stopping to protect herself which I understand and it makes sense. I know it isn’t easy for her so I have to bear my pain and soldier on and be patient
So we are having many positive interactions , we shared a family meal where we all talked like a family and were all engaged. I said I wanted us to be a proper family again . Small to an fro texts as she was doing a presentation she was worried about. And then we go to our separate bedrooms...... I feel as if we are moving very slowly forward. I asked if she had any plans for the weekend and suggested we meet up with a couple of friends for an event. She said it would be better to do for my birthday in 2 weeks . She said she might go and stay with her cousin on Friday night . I have lots to do on Saturday regarding my car and getting paint and other sundries for the house . Tonight I am going bowling with an old friend. I will continue to endure BUT. I will remind her of my boundary of no OM . I will also ask afterwards as she doesn’t lie very well and panics , so I guess I will know , I understand patience is needed but it is hard and my work is beginning to be affected . If anyone can suggest anything I would appreciate it !!
As I was reading the discussion on choppys thread , I should say F now always leaves her phone or shows my what she is messaging, been one odd occasion where I saw her being sneaky , but that could have been anything, I am sure she must be communicating with someone about her situation
I said I wanted us to be a proper family again .
Don't get too pushy/ desperate. Just let things unfold. No R talks AT ALL!
And then we go to our separate bedrooms...... I feel as if we are moving very slowly forward.
That's good, but look at them as baby steps that are a result of good DB'ing. This is not the time to abandon what you've learned.
I asked if she had any plans for the weekend and suggested we meet up with a couple of friends for an event.
Slow down! Sounds like you're being too pushy.
I will continue to endure BUT. I will remind her of my boundary of no OM . I will also ask afterwards as she doesn’t lie very well and panics , so I guess I will know , I understand patience is needed but it is hard and my work is beginning to be affected . If anyone can suggest anything I would appreciate it !!
I would suggest not doing that. She knows what your boundary is, you don't have to keep reminding her. The more you remind her the more angry and frustrated she will get at your lack of trust. You've got to give her time and space.
Thanks , I knew the answer , just had to be 2x4 on my thick head again !!
. Thanks AS
So here I am again on the rollercoaster . Happy then sad and empty . When I am with her it is fine , we have fun , she talks a lot ( about herself) we get along then go to bed separately and wake up alone and soldier on through the day . I know it’s early and only been almost 3 weeks since I woke up . I guess it’s nust more waiting and not knowing what she is doing. I don’t want to ask her so I have to suggest things to do together once in a while rather than just staying in together almost suggested going away for a weekend together, but that would be crazy at this stage and would make her feel uncomfortable. More time and space whilst she decides.....
So no contact, she just phoned for help on her laptop . It felt good to hear her and so much of me wanted to ask her on a date night ... but didn’t. Gym after work and see then I guess
This is all going to end badly isn’t it ? Looking at other people’s threads I see all the false hope and the aftermath, so depressing
TH,
Just because it ends in divorce doesn't mean it is necessarily going to end badly.
It's one chapter out of a thousand chapter book. You get to decide the ending.
Tryhard. I guarantee that if you stick to DBing principles, this will end positively for you. Whether or not it save your marriage or not. The beauty of DBing is that it prepares you for the next phase of your life. Whether that includes your W or not. DBing is about saving yourself, and sometimes it has the side-effect that it saves your marriage too.
I do get that , but I’m not even 1 month in and I am wondering if the dB principals being preached here actually align with the dr book , for example I am making great baby steps , ok I have been impatient most of the time , but we spend time together and enjoy it . I just need to get that attraction/ respect back . Don’t forget I was in effect the wah and she was the lbs
Tell us how the advice here is different from the book.
Tryhard, most our sitches occurred because we, the LBS, checked out of the marriage. WAS isn't someone that checks out, it the person that either wants to leave, get a D and/or has another person.
DB principles DO apply to your sitch. Back off, give her time and space, GAL, detach, and 180 on your bad behavior. This helps you become a man only a fool would leave. The question is whether or not she'll be a fool or not. You have no control over that.
I feel that the techniques are more aimed at removal of love for the spouse to protect the lbs
Lh , have you done the grooming thing , getting a new look and new clothes, got a suntan , becomes happy and attractive in your sitch ?
Your W is having a sexual relationship with another man. You need to protect yourself. That's what boundaries are for. Have you read up on boundaries?
I feel that the techniques are more aimed at removal of love for the spouse to protect the lbs
This is not true Tryhard. All that you do in DBing should be done in love. Many think that disciplining children is the opposite of loving them. I disagree Not disciplining children is the opposite of loving them. IE we discipline them because we love them. We DB because we love our WAS. Yes it does protect the LBS too. But if you are DBing from a place other than love then you are probably doing it wrong.
You 180'd on your behavior out of love. You should lovingly detach from her because it isn't fair to the your W to put your happiness on her shoulders. And you GAL to give them the time and space they need because you love them.
If you 180 out of spite, if you detach out of spite, if you GAL out of spite, it will come off as manipulative and controlling. Don't do that.
Lh , have you done the grooming thing , getting a new look and new clothes, got a suntan , becomes happy and attractive in your sitch ?
LOL. Yes, I've done all that. I don't tan though, that's very unhealthy. I'm divorced though so everything is for the single ladies lol.
You keep up the good work my man !?
Oh I have made that perfectly clear , I am 90% sure that in the last 2-3 weeks there is no om . My main aim is what she has told me , 180 on my bad behaviour and gain weight
TH,
Just our of curiosity how do you know there is no om anymore?
Line up for the 2x4 on me though :), you are a wise man Steve
i am pretty sure its coming lol
Please remember I only post here for support, questions or WHEN I AM LOW. ,
. Or maybe lining up for the 2x4’s Lololol only 90% maybe 80 . My house is secured and she works from home , I do let her escape once in a while;) she has agreed to tell me and I do keep a close eye. She’s had the visit from Mother Nature the last 2 weeks I asked for a chance and she Agreed
I feel that the techniques are more aimed at removal of love for the spouse to protect the lbs
Usually when someone says they're getting mixed signals between here and Michele's book it's because of a misunderstanding rather than contradicting info. When we say to get out, GAL, give your W time and space, that is all consistent with Michele's teachings. The ultimate show of love is letting someone go. Because begging/ pleading/ negotiating/ reasoning are all based on selfishness. Those things are us telling the WAS "I don't care what YOU want, this is all about what I want and what I want is to stay together so that's what you need to do to make me happy." But if you respect their wishes and leave them alone and let them go despite all the pain and anguish it causes you, well that my friend is real, true, honest-to-goodness, selfless love. Letting go isn't the "removal of love", it is the ultimate expression of it.
No 2x4! Just keep trying my friend. You got this!!
Duh duh duh, tomorrow will be crunch time , kinda getting exciting, if she does blow out om then I will be in for some spew like 2 weeks ago . Oooh what’s gunna happen , will she choose new super me or fantasy toy boy , stay tuned for the next episode
. Joking aside , I will not accept being lied to , I guess it’s not being cheated on technically, but that is what it feels like , and I am not putting in any effort to validate and support her whilst she does these things with other men and expect me to be the gay bff who pays for her and support s her whilst she does what she wants whilst hiding her intentions from me . I made this clear and I will be fine either way
I need some help on stating my boundary clearly . I will not continue to live in this house and be in a relationship whilst you are with another man ?
I think from the boundaries thread, a good boundary is about what you will do, rather than trying to control what someone else will do. I have a boundary around being spoken to in a disrespectful way. If H starts with the sarcasm or mockery or belittling, then I end the conversation. He's absolutely free to speak in whatever way he wishes whenever he likes, and I am absolutely free to leave the room, end the phone call, etc etc. It isn't about controlling him, but about protecting me. (Easier said than done - I'm not consistent about applying the boundary and I still catch myself trying to 'convince' him to speak respectfully to me, rather than just leaving and not tolerating the disrespect - but you get the gist.)
I guess in this situation, you can't stop her seeing someone else. You can't throw her out. You can't make her do anything. But you can decide that you won't live in the same house as someone in an active affair. Or you won't financially support someone who is using joint family money to fund an affair. Or something else?
It is a very hard one. I think people more experienced and skilled than I am will be able to advise you better.
Thanks Alison, you are correct. I do need some vet support on this one . All this came from no where , I guess it was her guilt and uncertainty about me . It must be very confusing and difficult for her , but I am not going to endure living in the house with the woman I love whilst she is in another relationship, regardless of what it is based on . I am sure she would love me to carry on being her best friend provider, protector and supporter, whilst she swans off once a week for a couple of hours
If you're 100% certain she is in an active affair, I think I'd be looking at some strong boundaries too. I hope the vets will advise.
This is going to be haywire, she was just online with the app she uses for her thing , and phones me to talk about the things I am doing and asking me to get some extra bits . Just gotta keep soldiering and do the DB dance
Thanks Alison,I can do this !!
Incoming 2x4's...
She said she couldn’t trust me after 3 weeks . I stated that I had stopped drinking and had changed
LISTEN and VALIDATE. "Yes I can understand why you still don't trust me after everything you've been through, it must have been very difficult. I am sorry you feel that way." Please try and understand the difference between validation and what you did which was the opposite of validation. Your response was "But I've changed!!!!" You were basically telling her that her feelings are wrong (invalidating).
then she accuses me of controlling her when I said the contact with om had hurt me
She doesn't care about your feelings right now. It's all about HER feelings. You've got to quit sharing this stuff with her, it needs to wait until later when the R is on better footing. When you try and share feelings right now it just looks sad and pathetic to her because of where her mind is.
but if she chooses to continue with om with what ever method then that is across my boundary and not something I will accept, I have left her with her choice
BOUNDARIES must have CONSEQUENCES, otherwise they are meaningless. So your boundary is "I will not live in an open R with you while you engage in an R with OM" but what is the consequence? You will pursue S or D? If you are going to establish that as a boundary then you need to state to her what the consequence of broaching that boundary is, and then you MUST BE WILLING to follow through! Don't state the boundary unless and until you are 100% prepared to enforce it.
I need some help on stating my boundary clearly . I will not continue to live in this house and be in a relationship whilst you are with another man ?
"OR"... what???
Please start a new thread and link your two threads together. You reached the 100 posting/reply limit on this one. Thanks!