Finding the Balance then Tipping the Scale (3)

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Finding the Balance 2 link below:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2824962&page=10

Been together 25 years, married 14. S11 and S6. BD 8/15/18. IHS.

Over last year W was distant, wanting time and space to figure things out when I approached her to talk or ask how she was doing. Noticed a guy�s picture saved on I cloud she said was for a friend. She went on BCP, said it was for a medical condition, to help with cysts(she�s had a few removed from breast, and her sister has cervical ones). She started working out. Got a tattoo on her shoulder of an initial for her dad who passed away two years ago. She became secretive with her phone carrying it around everywhere with her and closing out of it when I got near. She woke up early at 3am sometimes on the iPad and said she couldn�t go to sleep but wouldn�t open up to me. Sex life was spiked sometimes but we�d have our usual Fridays planned time and sometimes on the weekends and spontaneous weekdays but it wasn�t enough. I sensed something changed in her. Certain nuances when it came to sex. From prior year she would take more business trips with her boss who is also female. No idea who else would have gone. W worked for this company for 20 years and has new bigger clients from last 1-2 years.

Due to secretive behavior, I started using the find me app. One day she said she was at work and I used the app to catch her in a lie. I texted her and she lied saying it was a last minute work meeting. I was foolish and got destructive and tore up some of her personal items. She bomb dropped me saying it was my fault and she didn�t do anything wrong. She made an excuse for everything and said she wanted D. 1 month prior to BD, we started building a new home in a new location. We already had 50k put into the start so I was tapped out.

After BD, I broke so many rules like pursuit and begging for the kids. I ran hot and cold. Some days I didn�t trust her and others I doubted my judgement. I snooped on the phone bill and saw several texts to one number at certain times of the day when she was at work, enough to arouse my suspicion and she denied it. She went undercover after that. She was reading a lot of romance novels at this time too and I used her amazon account to buy things and saw her kindle books. One was something about adultery or how to get away with it. She later denied it. I even questioned if I had done that, searched for books on how to cheat to see if I could catch her and wondered if it saved my search history. I couldn�t believe what was going on that I was in a fog.

It was after 2 months I found DR.

I started to search for help, bought DR. Worked on my 180s. W noticed immediately. She no longer said she wanted to D but didn�t want to string me along either(she wanted to cake eat). I found the board and eventually stopped spending time with W as a family. I continued to work out and spent less days at home.

It�s been 6months since BD. W and I are selling this house in May. New house will be done end of May. A few times W talked about new house being our home and made comments about me living with them but did not say anything about the R or her behavior. I didn�t believe one word of what she was saying. She was trying to string me along.

I spoke to an attorney who was against 50/50 custody. I thought that wasn�t an option with what I was going to do, move out early as a point that I wouldn�t tolerate being in the same house as a cheater. Others here quickly convinced me fight for half time with the kids and it resonated with me. I decide to stay in this house until it sells. If I don�t try to push to oust her , I most likely won�t establish some more respect from her, but in considering everything, I�m not sure what I want either.

I believe if I had the divorce papers I would sign them under these conditions. I also feel like we need to go thru this physical separation. I question if she brings OM to new house if that will be a deal breaker for me. I feel conflicted, like I am standing for the M and open to reconcile but at the same time I want nothing to do with this person. I want my new life.

I�ve tried to spend these past months more with my sons and less with her. I take every opportunity to teach them. I take every opportunity to confront W on her disrespect, whether it�s her making comments under her breath to putting words in my mouth.

After S11 turned 11 we told the kids about D. Was hard.

I lost 70 pounds so far and have 100 more to go. I let myself gain weight drastically over the last 1-2 years.

I�m trying to work on emotional control and detachment.

AND.....tonight W and I had an argument about she expected me to help her do something I would have done before as the H. I argued back and said she fired me as the H. I think I am going to slowly use certain things from here and feel like a hipocrite for doing so because I�ve purposefully stayed away from trying to �make her see the light� with the info here.

I�m trying to use the tools on behavior but I am also using knowledge and weaving that into my own words against W expectations. One thing that stuck out from the argument was that I wasn�t happy either but I was still committed and I deserve better. She said oh so now your not doing anything to help with the house but you want half? I reminded her of everything I did to help and that Half? Told her half of everything was not good enough because now at most either of us will get half our time with the boys. I told her I deserved better than half. Will stop here.

Quote

One thing that stuck out from the argument was that I wasn�t happy either but I was still committed and I deserve better. She said oh so now your not doing anything to help with the house but you want half? I reminded her of everything I did to help and that Half? Told her half of everything was not good enough because now at most either of us will get half our time with the boys. I told her I deserved better than half. Will stop here.

Adam, I think you would agree that these convos with your W are going poorly. I think like many of us you try to make these discussions about your wants and needs rather than hers, and that just escalates into an argument. "I deserve better." "I reminded her of everything I did." "half of everything was not good enough." "I told her I deserved better than half." You you you. That comes off to her as you being selfish, self-righteous and dismissive of her feelings. A lot of the issue with WAW's is they feel like their emotional needs haven't been met for a long time. Instead of listening and validating you are arguing and trying to convince her you are right and she is wrong. She may very well be wrong, but this is about YOU doing what YOU can do to change the dynamic. And what you can do that will make a huge difference is LISTEN and VALIDATE. Validation is neutral, it is you simply listening to her and acknowledging her feelings no matter what they are. You are not agreeing/ disagreeing/ arguing/ negotiating/ reasoning/ etc. It doesn't matter whether you agree with her or not, you are simply letting her speak and allowing her to feel however she does. And you are not injecting your wants/ needs into the conversation, because I assure you right now she could give a flip about your needs.

I'm not suggesting you allow an affair, or roll over and let her cake-eat or anything like that. This is just about doing something different to keep arguments from starting and escalating. As hard as it is, you have to be the agent of change because she is unwilling and unable to right now. Like Michele says, "it takes one to tango".

Thanks AS.

I knew it escalated and should have stopped. The other thing that bothers me is that if I knew I was part to blame I would later approach her and tell her I was sorry for contributing to the argument, when we had a relationship. Now I can�t do this either. Gotta just stop this all together, you are right.

I need to work on the self control. This morning it escalated again because we needed to talk about upcoming projects we have other people coming to help with. Going to keep it civil and matter of factly with her.

Hi Adam

I'm sorry you are having a hard time of it at the moment. Not allowing things to escalate is difficult. Things will naturally escalate when you have two people who are hurting and confused. Hurt people hurt people. When these convo's start all the things we've been holding in, our hurt, our resentment, our feelings of rejection and our confusion comes pouring out of us. And by us I mean you, me, your W, and my H. We are all hurt, resentful, feeling rejected and most of all, damn, we are all so very very confused.

I avoid all R convos for this very reason, but so does my H, so it isn't too difficult for me. The alternative is those two people put up emotional barriers and use avoidance as a strategy. In my sitch there is a complicit contract that we will avoid all R conversations, keep our discussions short and to the point and try not to be in the same room for longer than necessary. This alternative also s*cks because beneath the fa�ade of emotional detachment, is still two hurt people who are better at hiding it. And it doesn't change the fact that hurt people hurt people. It is just more under the radar. But, I agree that this alternative at least has as its objective self preservation. Eventually the pretense of emotional detachment becomes actual emotional detachment - and it is only then that they lose the power to hurt us and in turn, we will not feel that need to hurt them. So, I understand your struggle. I would suggest avoiding the R talks (but you know this), focusing on your kids (as you are doing) and your own GAL. Eventually you wont have to try to be emotionally detached. You just will be.

You ask whether your W bringing OM to the house is a deal breaker for you. Do you have an expectation that she will not? Because she will - she will want to start sharing her life with him as soon as she can. It is the fantasy of a new life and that new life includes OM. It may all fall down in a heap around her later, but right now, her fantasy is still int act. Don't ask yourself now if it is a deal breaker, because your views will change depending on how far down your journey you are when it happens. What I have put up with, the many lines I've drawn in the sand, then, broken and weeping. stepped over, would astound you. And I am not alone. Those of us who still hold out hope for our M have all stepped over those same lines.

What you can and should control is what relationship this OM (and any other future OM) will have with your children and this must be articulated and agreed between the two of you. Trust me, she is just as afraid of you bringing OW into your children's lives. The maternal instinct is a strong one, even in those in the middle of a fog, and the very thought of another woman in her children's lives keeps her up at night.

FS,

Thank you for helping me to see through this. You are right in that it will happen and how I feel then will be up in the air. There is a lot to unpack in that though.

The thing is the other night she came home from a dinner out with her coworkers. I had fed, bathe, and put the boys to sleep. She got home and wanted me to sign some papers on the house which I did so she lingered in the study to tell me she had the realtors H look at the dishwasher and he said motor blown. She said her Sisters fianc� was coming to confirm and see about replacing it. I don�t want to make this a long rant but we both, W and I, clearly agreed several times we were not going to rely on friends or family to help us from a year ago and we both agreed not to bother anyone. We could afford to replace the dishwasher and hire painters. Well she went against this. She most likely was drinking that night and asked me why I made this puzzling face when she told me the fianc� was coming to double check that the motor was blown. I told her I had known this, another guys said it was so it didn�t make sense we had a 3rd person to say the same thing and I asked her if she looked for the replacement parts. She said she did but couldn�t find anything so the parts could be obsolete. I told her okay so if that�s the case why have someone try to fix it and are we sure it would work if we bought the parts which atm we don�t know are available. She said she didn�t know and I told her this is why I had the look of questioning. She spent several minutes saying they offered to help during a conversation they had. She was lying about that but I didn�t expose the lie. She left and I looked up the parts and later told her the price and that�s when she said I should have done that in the beginning instead of draggging it out. I was mad because I was trying to help but she expected me to do this. Anyways, she also said when I helped her move the boxes to the garage, the heavy box she couldn�t lift alone, she said the way I was telling her to lift was too much, I was trying to �teach� her. I was upset saying I didn�t want her to hurt herself and was coming from a good place to help.

So yeah my response to her was trying to come from a place standing up for myself. I�m still angry she expects me to be a certain way like I have to earn my keep or I won�t get half. The way she said it was like dangling that in my face. There was more crap she said but I kept it simple due to the length of my writing alrdy.

Still, I don�t want to get dragged down to that level and I should have bowed out. she reneged on an agreement, Just bumps from the reminder that I can�t believe or trust her. Nothing new

Btw, things like her going out for dinner with unknown people, I can�t control that nor am I letting that affect me. She told me in advance about it and we planned for her to be out. Wasn�t passive aggressive there.

I had read posts regarding children and some of these agreements with the WAS where they aren�t honoring agreements so that was in the back of my mind. That was my fault. Also I thought about having other men in my home helping to fix stuff I can take care of. I do find that disrespectful. If I am not the one who asked them or hired them and we agreed to it then yeah it bothered me. I have to drop this male bravado crap. She�s free to ask for help. But don�t ask other people and then expect me to have no feelings about it. The point is the same with going out as a family. I have some dignity and self respect but she clearly does not take that into account. That�s why they think it�s still okay to ask you to play family when they�re the one hurting you and feeling like everything is ok.

If I�m wrong here help me to see it differently.

Adam,

Your wife sounds like a difficult person. Honestly an in-house separation seems harder than a separate separation. On one hand there's a bit more hope that things can be fixed, on the other hand you suffer more. I hope this doesn't last too much longer for you!

Hi Adam

Sorry it took a while to get back to this. I am not a counsellor (perhaps DV could pipe in) but from the way you describe it, the argument was never about the dishwasher. It isn't even about your W, though she definitely had a part in the escalation. This one is about you and your own feelings of rejection.

Adam, she fired you as her H. She is bailing on your M and is openly having an affair with another man. Why, oh why would you expect her to not renege on an agreement about dishwasher parts. My guess is because she is asking people to do stuff that a H would normally do.

Now that my H has moved out, I sometimes get other people to come in and do the stuff he would have done, like painting the stairs, or doing some plumbing in the kitchen. I don't ask permission and I don't apologize. Every single time I see the flash of anger in his eyes. The accusation that I should have consulted with him first because he could have managed it, or at least got it done cheaper. Then inevitable question "How much did THAT cost?". I tell him but I do so with a tone which says, non of your business, my house, my money. He scoffs then walks away.

My H is not my H. He walked away. Therefore he does not get a say in things that a H would normally have a say in. He fired me as his W. Therefore he no longer gets to act like my H.

I am reading between the lines, but you feel that by reneging on your agreement, or by asking for another opinion, she is again, firing you as her H.

so, if your W wants to waste her time (and the time of other people) getting them to come in and look at a dishwasher, let her.

"I thought we agreed to replace it, but if you want to get some more opinions then OK. Let me know when you've decided" ... or (and I would never actually say this to him) the "whatever" approach.

Anyway, something to think about.

And you are right, the only time I throw the disrespect card is when it is about the children. When this happens comms are always business like, and always by text.

Oh and Adam. I appreciate your comments on my sitch too. It has helped a lot knowing that you, and others, are listening, I appreciate the "good jobs" as much as I appreciate the (and I've got this a few times) "you [censored] up, now get back on the horse".

FS

FS...You always have some really good advice and insights, IMO. I think if you ever decide on a second career, counselling might suit you. Sorry things have been so tough Adam. Turn the focus back on you and your sons... it will get better in time. (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by Adam04

AND.....tonight W and I had an argument about she expected me to help her do something I would have done before as the H. I argued back and said she fired me as the H

Adam, if you allow her to goad you into an argument, you are showing her that she controls you, that she can get to you. Don't empower her, empower yourself. You can make your point about not being the H anymore, but don't let it go any further. And one thing I learned about avoiding these arguments was to not be home. Maybe not possible as much in your sitch as mine, but try it. And for reference, I mean not be home when I knew my W was still seeing the OM daily/weekly.

Originally Posted by Adam04

the heavy box she couldn�t lift alone, she said the way I was telling her to lift was too much, I was trying to �teach� her. I was upset saying I didn�t want her to hurt herself and was coming from a good place to help.

I vote just get it for her if you're standing right there. Texas people have good manners IMO, and that's something I'd do for a woman I didn't know. Not that I'd go out of my way but if I was standing right there. You'll probably feel better that you didn't get into a fight over it too.

Originally Posted by Adam04

So yeah my response to her was trying to come from a place standing up for myself. I�m still angry she expects me to be a certain way like I have to earn my keep or I won�t get half. The way she said it was like dangling that in my face. There was more crap she said but I kept it simple due to the length of my writing alrdy.

Don't take the bait, she knows she has you b/c you care enough about her bs and lies to respond.

This whole dishwasher deal is definitely more than just a dishwasher. She's playing games, you can rise above it.

Anyways, how dem boys doing?! I wish I had a couple boys man we'd be party animals.

Thanks for the responses.

Weekend was busy. Got the house ready for picture day tomorrow and it looks really good. Saturday put in 10 long hours of moving stuff and helping the painters. Inside and outside look good and the eastern redbuds in the backyard right now look really nice. It feels really, really good to declutter and let go of all the unnecessary things we hold on to. AND the BOXES I have been hoarding are finally put back to use! I don't know if I am the only one who does that, save the boxes for certain items to put them back into later on.

Nicole, W is difficult no doubt about that. I am too though. I wonder which of us is more difficult than the other, lol. It could be me. It's been hard for me to describe my feelings about the IHS. I find myself typically saying I have been unhappy just as W has been but I remain loyal. That hinders me from 100% moving on because all my life I've been codependent on women for a lot of my happiness. From sexual intimacy to female companionship. I am happy with myself that I haven't caved in and sought attention from other women outside of my current friendships with women from work. I think this has set me back though in the way I currently am wired. I can seek male friendships but I am sort of very guarded there. I can only trust so many guys, and mostly its my day 1 friends from childhood. IHS does not allow W to feel that I am gone. She sees me every day and I am just an obstacle in her way of happiness. I don't even see her any more. Today we sat at our grand table that seats 12 with S6 and I said something to him. W looked at me and asked if I said something to her, I said no. We channel our energy and conversation to the little one. His laughter makes us laugh. And we're like two strangers to each other. Giving this awkward distance and silence.

FS, I've tried and failed miserably at trying to respond in so few words to the rejection. I've let it sit for a couple days and I think I am coming across in a way I may be oblivious to.

The agreement stemmed from when my brother and I helped her sister move out of her house she sold. My younger brother is huge and lifts weights pretty regularly as a 6'3 big ole ape guy. I'm a big guy too but with a big keg belly. I noticed her side of the family, all shorties(even the men) waiting for him to do the heavy lifting. Some of the guys would bubble wrap the drawers to the chester drawer and wait for him to move them so we both moved them. W also spent hundreds of dollars to feed the crew of ppl. The sister also had other friends helping her paint etc. We chose not to burden our friends or family. We chose to hire people or do it ourselves.

I'm a practical guy. I can give up not being her H. The guy who is coming , the fianc�, he's a good nice guy, I consider him a friend. He'll drop what he's doing to help anyone anywhere. He lives 1 hour out. My W lied about having this meeting with them and speaking to the sister, the realtor and having both men there saying they offered to help. My S11 told me she didn't go anywhere that week. They weren't even over. She might have talked to her sister thru messaging and the sister could have asked her fianc�. IF I was "replaced" as the H by a working crew we hired, why would I be more accepting of that than "putting out" friends I know? I see it as her using people, people I know.

W did the touch up painting in the house. When W got to the room and she messed up the painting there we knew we had to repaint the whole room. I told her I would help her if needed OR I got my next door neighbor to see about his guys to hire. She said hire them. I said okay. I have no issue with that.

Saturday, I moved furniture from the MBR. I folded the treadmill up against the wall and she said it will do for now. I told her if it gets moved out the room it will require me to dismantle it. She said it was fine there Saturday night. Sunday I had plans for me and my S11 to get a haircut. Early in the morning she goes to breakfast with her family. She calls and tells me her nephew is coming over to help move the treadmill. I'm like "you know its not dismantled" She sighs and says well hes coming over to help, do you want me to call him to cancel." This is another way she is controlling and expecting me to do something without running it by me. So I asked her, Does he know it will take a while to dismantle?" She said yes he will be there for 2 hours. He shows up in like 15 minutes and asks where is the thing to move. He's got his GF in the car and they are going out to eat. We had to reschedule so I asked him what my W said. He said they must have miscommunicated because he couldn't be there but maybe 5 minutes. She comes home and acts like nothing happens. I do too. Later that night I dismantled the treadmill on my own time. She asked me if it was okay to call him over now and we worked it out. That's just normal and was decent.

If I decide to help her, that's on me. She can not expect help from me. That was my whole point. If I decide to go out to eat with my sons and ask her to go along, that's on me. But she cant go out with our boys and expect me to tag along.

Last night, after I dismantled the treadmill and she felt good, she ordered food and came into the MBR asking me to take a bite from her bowl from her spoon. "It was just that good" she said. I looked at the spoon as she approached and aptly told her no thanks, I'm going to get my own plate. Guess what she did. Passive Aggressive. She got mad and yelled about something I cant even remember, some slight annoyance from S6. (I'm not even going to share straws with this woman let alone eat off her plate or use her utensil. cooties)

My W sense of entitlement is through the roof. There's more, lots more but I don't want to come here and bash on her and use this as an outlet for that. I try not to. I apologize if it comes across that way too because I know I am at fault for my own actions and I am here to try and fix that.

Your H has no right to question your decisions. Maybe its just my personal opinion, but walking away I wonder though, if you both agree to something, say if he chose to pick up the kids at a certain time and he chose not to, would be it at least decent to discuss it with you first or have you find out after the fact? Because they do one or two bad things or display bad behavior, it doesn't get them off the hook for other things. No card blanche if you will.

My W can change her mind. No qualms with that. We talk about the cashier and being nice. Having some decency to be human and not overly doing anything. That's what I am getting at too. I remember so many times I told her I would go with her to her family's house for dinner and later on that night I reneged on it and I wonder how she felt about those times.

I think many of us here struggle with how we were so hardwired to the R that completely letting go takes a while.

DV much hugs to you. Always appreciate the support. more on them definitely and less on her.

ovrrnbw, You said it. I got goaded and baited. I hate that. I'm falling off. I need to re-enroll into this. 4 months in and I feel like I am in limbo here too. I'm getting more comfortable.

Me and the boys are doing great. I'm going out with S11 for dinners. We'd go shopping together. S6 he likes when we hit the stores for his little toys. Been with S6 riding his bike with training wheels. Going to give it a little more time before I take the training wheels off. S11 and I discuss anime. Really cool stuff. He's also into basketball. We got rid of the small hoops so no bball for now. Going to start taking him jogging around the lake here. Our home where he was born... will be out of here in a few months. I'll miss this place.

Which reminds me, I need to check defacto for TX. Lawyer didn't mention that but from watching more current videos and where I thought I had enough questions, I guess I don't. need to speak to a couple more. that's next plan. Anyone know about de facto and custody rights for Texas? I'll email my lawyer I consulted with to be sure.

What are people's thoughts if I told W I wasn't leaving the new house either. Could she force me out if I'm not on the title? What does that do besides bringing IHS to the new place?

Maybe best option is to use that time for physical split and then see... Then laissez les bons temps rouler as they say next door.

Weekend update:

Last week some time, W and I had our first showing on the house prior to open house and got an immediate bid for asking price. Since then, open house brought 12 couples and a few offers. Today, one visit and another offer at full. Within one week we are now looking to be out of this home sooner than we thought. I guess that's a good sign? We attribute it to the beautiful Eastern Redbuds in the back yard and our style in decor. We now have to disclose that the washer is not operational. LOL at that if we had just replaced it like we agreed.

This past Friday I asked the co worker I walk to her car out for dinner and she accepted. She doesn't know of my marital sitch. She's joked about trying to hook up with some of my engineer friends. I joked about hooking up with some of her skanky friends as side chicks, NO j/k... oh man if that happened, lol. We went as two friends from work.

We went out for an early dinner and from 5-9 we ate, drank, and just had a good time. She was really cute and we laughed the entire time talking about what seemed like everything. It was fun and light. A couple times she asked about me and my W, about the move and selling of the house. Told her there were a lot of moving pieces to that whole puzzle so I wasn't sure but everything was good. We shared dessert and had coffee. It was a king cake dessert with a little baby on it... she kept it as a memento.

The night ended at her car where she turned towards me and reached out an arm so we hugged bye. She was off to work off the food we just ate and I drove home. I brought the leftovers inside and placed it in the fridge; I barely ate but a few bites. W was on the couch and the kids in bed. We spoke on the house and shared some stories about the kids. I went to bed and the lady texts me and said she had a wonderful time. We exchanged a few texts and I left it at that.

Saturday morning, W and I had to be out the house for open house and I told W I was going to take the kids out for breakfast and asked if she wanted to come. She said she was going to take them out to the place I was going to take them so we laughed and we both went. She had S6 and I had S11. We got there and we had a nice time, small talk. We joked and laughed but I wasn't initiating like I did with the girl the night before. I was letting W lead the convo mostly and some times I would say something or joke. For the most part we were being ourselves. I wasn't like the old me. We actually talked more this time than some others. Like catching up if you will. She did acknowledge she was going to pick up a new washer afterwards, lol. I told her I was taking S11 to catch a movie. So we left after breakfast, but on this one, I didn't get a hug from the girl. A thanks for breakfast, BUT I did snatch a big hug from my S6 who went with W.

Then S11 and I were off to watch Aquaman. Yeah its late but we had the WHOLE theatre to ourselves except for two other dads and their sons. Every father/son had a whole row to themselves. The movie was awesome. We plan to see Captain Marvel when it comes out. Last night S11 was watching a new tv series with mom and she asked if I wanted to watch it with them, to share in some family time. I checked one episode out and it wasn't to my liking. I spent a few minutes with them.

Then this morning, we had another showing and had to be out. I took S6 to Chuck E Cheese. Came home and the realtor said this couple offered what we were asking for. She says she will have more offers as well so she'll discuss that with W.

It felt good. The couple also wanted our furniture and liked the look of the whole house. It also felt good that W helped with moving, also helping put some of the lights up I didn't put up, etc. She was proud to have put in the work to get the place where it was and I loved it. She was telling me stories of how she took the ladder from the garage and went up to the ceiling to replace some lights and thought we had issues with one, thinking they burnt out because the lights weren't working so she went up and down several times. Then moved on to do something else and had to come back later after realizing she was flipping on the wrong light switch. LOL, she said live and learn. Yep.

A couple hours ago... After W talked about the house we discussed possibly moving out earlier and she asked me how the apartment hunting went. Told her it was fine. Everything will be okay. She said the house will be done in another month. I told her I thought she wanted them to extend it until end of May for summer(to not move the boys from school to school so close to the end of the school year) and she said if this house sells she may move there with the kids and shuttle them every day to the school here. She said, I hope they don't catch me or I'll be in trouble.
I told her if the new people have a kid they enroll in the elementary with our address it may be a problem... She joked "we'll all be one big happy family" or some such. Dunno if she later thought that might not have been the most appropriate joke.

She couldn't look me in the eyes when asked what this will do to me and I was being mindful of many things, I said I will be fine. I have this attitude like everything is and will be fine no matter what. She offered saying I could move in with them for a while. It just ended there. I didn't shake my head or agree. I moved to the kids rooms. told her I needed to clear the attic in the hallway which was where I was at. In the hallway she was next to me and peered into the nursery and our S11 room. She said one of the couples who looked at the house was a young couple like how we were and it would be a great starter home for them. She looked at me and saw me looking into S11 room. She asked me if I was going to miss it, and I told her yeah, I was. She said she was too. She leaned into me and we both hugged for a moment. S6 saw us and ran into us to get some of that and we all hugged for a moment.

I went to the MBR and the blinds were opened. Told W and said the couple may have opened them and I had a good view of the purple flowers from the bed. Everything was moved away from the window and it was a nice, beautiful view. Told W they may have noticed the view and if she wanted to come see she could. She ended up laying next to me back turned. We were in the spoon position and we had light talk about how beautiful it was. I slowly started moving out. She was going to sleep on the couch to take a nap before going to her family's baptism. I let her sleep in the MBR to take a nap when S6 got in between us. Told him to keep his ipad down some so mom can take a nap. She only had a short time to nap and she said he was talking her ear off so she couldn't sleep, lol. He had eaten the candy he got with his tickets from Chuck E Cheese.

I talked to W after dinner about the summer and putting the boys in an after school program and she re-iterated her mom will be staying with her and agreed to help her take care of them even on my weekends and I asked if she was sure and she said yes. Both boys heard us and said they do not want to go to daycare. So MIL it is... I also think this lets her know I won't be moving in with her.

The lady from work has texted me yesterday asking how the movie went and we continued to chat throughout the day until it was bed time. Today we texted about work. My brother who I eventually told about W and I sitch also asked me how we were doing today. I told him I was planning on getting an apt near W's home. He said he was sorry. I didn't discuss any details and I told him my concern was on my health and to be there for my boys.

Throughout these weeks, I've had moments where I wanted to write them down to share but I didn't. Sometimes there felt like I had moments of clarity. Like going to breakfast with W and kids. I don't have any hidden agendas or feelings. With the girl, there isn't any strong connection physically or emotionally. I am not ready to see it that way or put emphasis on those things. There were surprise moments though when she did something or looked a certain way and I was stunned. Emotionally, we've always had the same interests and laughed. She was the one who thinks I got my W by my sense of humor. Still, for the time being she is only a friend who I don't want my sitch to complicate. I don't think she is looking and neither am I. I'm not saying she couldn't be someone I would be interested in. Just my mind is not there for now. I want to keep things separated for as long as I can. I've also hinted to her that I've had several women friends from before. All friends my W, her sister, and I know personally. Women I could have come over and we could watch a movie, women who would come over and cook up something and we break bread. When I used to work grave yard shift years back, I'd have a female friend who also was up late and I would take my W rollerblades and let the other girl rollerblade with them and we hung out. W eventually even brought this girl to her work, where she was hired with my SIL. She's a close friend of my SIL. So in many cases, also because I work in an office full of women, ratio 15 w to 1 m, I gravitate to the company of women more.

There's going to be a point where internalizing everything is just too much. Too much overthinking and not enough of just doing. Living. So lately I have just been living and trying to cope to make the best of it. And I've been happy with the results. I've had small wins with W where I noticed my attitude has changed. W would ask for my opinion on something and I would give it or say we will be okay with whatever decision we make. My overall attitude is changing because I don't feel like I am a pessimist always easily annoyed. This BD has unfortunately awakened me and I am more grateful then ever for what I consider my second chance in life.

I don't have hope for my marriage and I can still get bummed, but I know I will be okay. I am not a wreck from when I started. I can remember days within the last year I was married and I hated life. I didn't know all the whys or reasons why I got to where I was and I was miserable. My life hasn't drastically changed from all of that, but my attitude has. I think about this moment and my heart aches because I'm humbled.

I may not be doing everything DB or know the best thing to say or do, but I am learning. I'm learning to be a better person, H, and father. These 180s are taking time. Not having to rely on someone else for everything from physically doing things to fulfilling an emotional need is liberating.

6 months in, and I can say I will truly be okay. Life will go on with or without me so if I was smart, I'd better jump on that train now and be open to all life has to offer. Some sad, sure, but many more wonderful moments and memories to be had.

Nice update Adam.

I don't have a lot of sage advice, as your sitch is a bit different than mine. I like your independence, you're finding your own happiness, and that's all you can ask for.

Anyways, keep up the good work and take care of those boys!!!

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Ovrrnbw , thanks always, really, for your comments. I always like reading your posts and you are so helpful to others and myself. You give GREAT advice brother and tremendous support to so many people, again myself included.

It may not be the most socially acceptable thing to do but right now I have both boys in MBR sleeping in this big old bed with me. Both are sound asleep after we prayed and said good night to the whole world as the ending to our prayer.

Adam, sorry things are moving so quickly, selling the house is a big step and loaded with emotion! Hang in there and stay strong!

Regarding the friend you went out with, everything you describe sounds more like the early stages of dating rather than a "friend" scenario. Just be careful, would hate to see you or her or both get hurt because you jumped into something too soon.

Hey Adam

Fantastic update. I too am sorry that things are moving so quickly with the sale but you are handling it like a hero. Throughout this you have been slowly rebuilding whilst trying to be there for the kids. None of us is perfect, and your sitch, like all of ours, s*cks, but I hope you can see throughout it all you have maintained as much, if not more, dignity as any human can expect to maintain.

Originally Posted by Adam04

I don't have hope for my marriage and I can still get bummed, but I know I will be okay. I am not a wreck from when I started. I can remember days within the last year I was married and I hated life. I didn't know all the whys or reasons why I got to where I was and I was miserable. My life hasn't drastically changed from all of that, but my attitude has. I think about this moment and my heart aches because I'm humbled.

There is truth in this ^^^. There are days when I still cry, and days when I don't think about him at all and other days when I think with pride at how far I've come and all things I've accomplished this past year, despite the heartache and the uncertainty. This is life for us right now. It will get better.

Originally Posted by Adam04

I may not be doing everything DB or know the best thing to say or do, but I am learning. I'm learning to be a better person, H, and father. These 180s are taking time. Not having to rely on someone else for everything from physically doing things to fulfilling an emotional need is liberating.

Db is not only a tool to try and save our M, they are also tools to allow us to mentally step away from the emotional rollercoaster our spouses create. It gives us time, and with time, perspective. We need to detach and rebuild our lives so we know that we learn that there is life after our spouses. That the world will not end and we will not die. It is a mental (and physical) stepping away from our spouse so that we can look at our M and our future objectively. The work has started for you, but the physical separation may be what you need to really examine your marriage away from the energies you both create and the many ghosts you two share.

Originally Posted by Adam04

It may not be the most socially acceptable thing to do but right now I have both boys in MBR sleeping in this big old bed with me. Both are sound asleep after we prayed and said good night to the whole world as the ending to our prayer.

There are not many nights when D9 does not end up in my bed though she always starts out in her own bed. I know that she does not even make a pretense of starting in her bed when at her dads. She just gets straight into his bed at bedtime

. When H first left, D12 too use to come into bed with me. They need reassurance that we are still there. I try not to encourage or discourage, believing instead that one day she will start consistently sleeping in her own bed once again.

I would heed AS warning. Whilst the dinner could be a seen just like any dinner between two friends, the near constant texting sounds more like the early stages of courtship. Be sure this is what you want because if not, someone is bound to get hurt.

FS

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Thank you AS for the encouragement to hang in there.

Today, W discussed the options on the buyers and I listened and chose one so now we have the ball rolling. She discussed a possible contingency with temp leasing. I agreed and she brought up that I can move in the new house for a while if the funds are tight. I didn't say anything. I've decided to be unfazed and show her that nothing of our sitch is bothering me.

As for this coworker. I understand the concern and will tread lightly. I basically like the female companionship without her knowing of my problems. Felt good to get away for a few hours and talk it up.

FS,

Thank you for chiming in with the support. Yeah, things are going to be crazy in the next month and a half.

when I think about my past and who I want to be, it's hard to articulate and put my feelings into words, or words that make sense... A lot of my feelings feel fragmented and I'm still broken. It's like a dark, dirty truth that I feel I need much more work to be done. I keep seeing Sandi's words about having self respect and values. I don't want to live in fear or become weakened by it.

I was so much more with so much less.

W and I were so young and we paved our own way for so long...

Now it seems like it was just a matter of time before we ended up here. I feel like Lotso on Toy Story...

FS, just have to say you an are amazing person. I really appreciate your kind words and even the ones that make me think. It's good to see things from different perspectives.

As you mention DB, today I had such a busy Monday at work that I don't think there was a moment I thought about W in the negative or where I was lost in thought. I really want people to know it will be better no matter the outcome. But they can't wait. I don't know what it is. They have to go through their own journey but they have to want it. They have to want to be happy alone. I see so many posts about LBS still wanting to be happy with the WAS. I feel sad, I know that yearning. I also know that fear.

I know I am not out of the woods yet. This is a cycle. Once I'm alone in my apartment when the kids are with her, I will try to fill my time, my void with other stuff to do. Then I will cycle again. We'll see how strong I am then and how quickly I'll bounce back. Then there will be the D papers... And how would I react to being served and going through it. SO I know there is much to come. I must temper myself for it. If/when it happens I know I will be okay.

S11 sleeps in his own room except S6 loves to sleep with me. He begs S11 to sleep with us so S11 has been doing that, second night now. And its 10:30 so I better make sure they are asleep.

Originally Posted by Adam04

Today, W discussed the options on the buyers and I listened and chose one so now we have the ball rolling. She discussed a possible contingency with temp leasing. I agreed and she brought up that I can move in the new house for a while if the funds are tight. I didn't say anything. I've decided to be unfazed and show her that nothing of our sitch is bothering me.

That all sounds fine. I just wanted to add a quick comment that while getting out of the house can be emotionally draining, in the long run it's probably the best scenario. My brother dug in his heels and refused to leave their big house when he and his ex got D'd. They've been D'd for 10 years or so and that house has been an albatross around his neck. He's deeply in debt because of the big bills and property taxes and basically stuck there because he can't afford to fix it up to sell and he's upside down on the mortgage thanks to cash-out refi's. Just do what you can to live within your means, we've been through enough without adding financial woes on top of everything else!

You are right Adam. It�s about learning to honesty love ourselves. Just not in a selfish way. We need to love ourselves to be able to love others. Easy to say...

Keep shining there man!

((((A))))

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Adam04

Hey AS, thanks for the reassurance. For a second, I thought about what if I stayed back, but it�s not ideal; it�s quite a ways from the new place and where the kids will be.

I remember seeing you post about your bros sitch. Sorry to hear about that. Sounded like he was cutting off his nose to spite his face from what I remembered between him and xW. It seems really easy for the LBS to get hung up with dealing with the emotional baggage that it can stunt any forward progress. It�s a choice we must make though to let go of theirs, own ours, grit down and keep going.

Definitely will plan to live within my means. It�ll take some adjusting and making things work.

Originally Posted by neffer

You are right Adam. It�s about learning to honesty love ourselves. Just not in a selfish way. We need to love ourselves to be able to love others. Easy to say...

Keep shining there man!

((((A))))

Yes Nef , I know where you are coming from, always easier to say and harder to do. Each day I have to be mindful of all the DB things and doing my best to live as a decent, respectful human being, father, and still H under these circumstances.

Journaling,

Its start of Spring break and I have off Monday and Tuesday with the kids. W has rest of week with the kiddos. In another month it will get crazy but for right now I'm not going to worry about that, spending my time with the kids.

Yesterday I was going to take the kids out to dinner so I called W after work to let her know but it was a last minute decision on my part. She had already ordered pizza for them and had them home by 5:30, early. This morning she shared that she went by the new house to check on the progress and picked the kids up afterwards. Last night after we ate dinner, I took the kids out for some shaved ice. S6 asked W to go so we could go as a family. She went with us and the kids enjoyed their shaved ice. Neither of them got a brain freeze, if it was me, definitely would have gotten a few. W and I had small talk about the house. I noticed she had her phone face down and was checking the texts on her watch. I reverted back to the kids and also continued to talk to her about the house. She's got a tankless water heater so we discussed getting a softener and were looking into if the build up would be an issue over the years. I think it would be. She showed me something on her phone when she grabbed it and a text from her sisters came through. In the moment, I chose to not let that suspicious behavior get to me. I could have been vindictive and hooked up my phone to the car when I was driving back home. I had some texts from my "friend" from work that Friday night. We were talking about working on Saturday but I declined to spend time with the kids. If the phone was hooked up, the alert for incoming texts would pop up with the name.

Got home and put the kiddos to bed, S11 has been sleeping earlier than usual. I am keeping an eye on him and open communication with him. I'm not pushing or prying, and I don't want to project anything that is not there. This is a slight change in his normal behavior though with wanting to stay up late before, especially on weekends. I do pop up to his room every now and then and initiate convo about his day, things going on, music, anime, youtube and once I find a topic he's interested in, we start talking for a while. With S11, if he's not feeling good or something bothers him, it's been easy to tell. I'd ask him if something is bothering him and if he says he doesn't know, then something is but he's having a hard time to process it. Sometimes he is able to open up. We've got to where if he just feels cranky and whiney about doing something or not getting his way, then he knows he needs to straighten up but he'll let me know he needs a minute. We've gotten better with that. I let him know it's okay to feel a certain way if he doesn't want to do something but he'll need to learn how to get over it and still do what he needs to do. Eventually like in 5 minutes he's up and running and smiling. It clicks with him. S11 knows if I use a certain tone or say now, he has no choice but in some other cases, we have wiggle room to negotiate on timing if he needs to take out the trash that night or needs to get himself ready within the next hour. I am re-establishing certain boundaries with S6. He sometimes thinks everything is a game so I told him we can play and its fun BUT if he hears my tone and certain words, I need to know he understands where I am coming from with being serious. I also expect him to drop all the joking and acknowledge with a yes sir. For the most part, my kids are well-mannered, disciplined, and obedient. If a person comes into the house, my kids should greet them. Also with saying bye. Sometimes they may forget but its my job to re-enforce or remind. Wow, dont know what made me go off on a tangent there... guess its been my mindset right now to spend time with them and share a little more about them and where "WE" are at, the boys and I or is it me? /shrugs, lol.

So this morning, I take the boys to their favorite breakfast place and ask W if she wants to join. She has an appointment at 11:30 with her lashes person. Then she said she will go shopping for the new house. She asked what I would be doing so I took a bag and filled it up with a basketball, football, and the kids baseball stuff along with my S6 metal detector. S6 has been wanting me to take him to the park for treasure hunting so I promised him this Saturday morning I would after breakfast. We enjoyed breakfast. I had a turkey, spinach, and feta cheese egg white omelet that's like 500 calories for the whole meal. It's my second time having it, really good. Everyone else's breakfast looked way more delicious though like pancakes with bacon, biscuits and country gravy with sausage in it. And a southwest skillet of eggs, potatoes, meats and topped with all kinds of cheeses... with French toast. W left to do her thing. I ventured out with the boys to this HUGE park nearby that is adjacent to a golf course. It happened to be raining on and off this morning. We got to the park, drove around and parked. We had a scavenger hunt. Had the boys look for different things like a nest, mockingbird, newspaper, bottle, bee, spider, red flower, 4 legged animal, and S6 asked to include cow poop. We went exploring in the woods a bit and I broke some long sticks and showed them how to prod the high grass ahead to make sure everything was safe before moving ahead. Saw some dead trees and was fun to hunt for stuff. When it started to rain heavy, we dropped everything and ran for the car. We laughed and had a good time. We then drove to another side of the park with animals, and a hill. We were by a pond and the kids were having fun rolling down the hill. Drove out to another section of the park and S6 used his metal detector and S11 and I played baseball. S6 quickly stopped what he was doing so he and S11 took turns at the bat and also catching. Both are left handers like me and the glove was a left handed glove. It was fun though. Kids kept saying how fun it was to go exploring in the woods. It's one of those things I remember so much of when I was a kid. They passed on playing at the playground this time. They were pooped... speaking of, we never found the cow poop.

Got the kids home and bathed. S11 takes care of himself. I still bathe S6 but he gets himself rdy. He's pretty self sufficient with taking his clothes off, cleaning his ears, putting his clothes up and putting his clothes on. Although, he usually puts his clothes on with the tags inside out. If he's at home, we'd let him wear his clothes however he puts them on. W wasn't home at this time. She got home later and said she went jewelry shopping with her sisters after shopping for furniture. She said her sister who doesn't wear earrings finally got a pair. We both shared a laugh about it. Asked her if she had any plans for the kids tonight since she usually has something with her side of the family. She said no except her sister and husband now asked the kids to come over to swim. She told them no since I told her I was planning to cook dinner. I told her since they don't have plans I was going to grill up something in the back. Asked S6 what he would like, I made a suggestion and he jumped up at the idea. We were making hotdogs/boudin and tator tots. After that we would make smores. Took S6 with me to get the groceries and came home to cook. I got everything ready and W helped pop the tots in the oven and cleaned the dishes. S11 had taken a long nap after playing all day. He woke up to eat and when he got done it was time for the Smores. Didn't work on the grill so I moved everything for Stove top Smores. Worked well because we used chopsticks. Stuck the huge, fluffy marshmallows on the water soaked sticks and put them over the open stove, worked like a charm. Then microwaved the smores for like 5-8 seconds and everything was perfect. Of course I had to make sure S6 knew the rules of the fire and the stove to never do it alone since he asked to make another one and was just a little too eager to run up to it before I got there. I've been known as a child to burn down the living room so I know first hand the dangers, then there was the other time my friends garage got burned... but that's a different story.

Tomorrow I am (( was going to ))) going to watch Captain marvel with S11 and then afterwards take S6 to Chuck E Cheese again. Sunday night we may play it by ear. I was wanting to watch a movie with them and cozy up and make us some pop corn. Probably create some starter MTG ( magic the gathering ) decks with S11. He's into Yugioh dueling decks and said he was interested in MTG. I still have a lot of my old cards along with my old comics in storage.

I want to take them to a comic store/book store and then to a go kart place. Don't have a fishing license for us or the fishing equips. That will be in the works soon. it is time...

Overall, enjoying time with the kids. W is doing her thing and I am not concerning myself with her or trying to get myself worked up to be spinning for nothing. I've made that decision some time back to let it go and I think I am doing that.

(sources say the movie isn't worth watching so I'm checking reviews tonight and checking for alternatives)

You are an awesome dad Adam. Don't ever let anyone tell you different.

I took the girls to watch Alita last week. They both thoroughly enjoyed it. Always a hassle finding something that a 12 year old and a 9 year old will watch. There is one swear word in there, but the kids had a bit of a giggle about it after so no harm no foul.

Take care.

Hey Adam, sounds like things are going good. Keep it up and hope you are happy at this point in your life. I am sure it can be difficult but I know I am always happy when I see my kids happy.

Hey FS and lost, thanks for chiming in.

FS, Alita is a movie I�d watch. There are so many movies I want to watch on the horizon. Also Game of Thrones soon too, can�t wait! I hear you about the age difference with S11 and S6, although S11 was nice and agreed to watch How to Train A Dragon with S6.

Lost, as for happiness, that�s a tough one. I�m making the best of it, considering all things. There are some nights I toss and turn, I have bad dreams of the sitch. There�d be days I�m doing something And out of the blue I miss the old us. Thoughts just pop up from anything causing a past memory to surface. So when I have the bad dreams, the memories, the feelings, I try to move on and keep busy. I�d like to think they don�t change anything but they can, if I let them. I don�t want to dwell in the past or in sorrow so I suck it up and keep going. I don�t want to have a negative outlook on life because of this and I need to work on preventing that from happening.

Last few days I spent time with the kids individually and together. I took the little one to Chuck E. Cheese, had fun with him and dropped him at home and picked up S11 and went to play laser tag and hit the arcade. S6 too short for laser tag. That night, grilled ribeye steaks per S11 request. S6 was content with sausage and rice. W ate boudin. Then next day hung out with BIL and SIL, had lunch at a Korean bbq place. Got my fishing license. Took the kids out to fish at a park, didn�t catch anything. They did pretty good casting on their beginner rinky dink poles but the cheapo lines kept tangling up. Then kids played in the park for a while. Went to watch Captain marvel with BIL and S11. Then had dinner with the in laws and W. I was out with in laws all day so W asked if it was okay to come along. Yesterday kids and I had lunch with SIL from day before. Then went to see How to Train a dragon. Wife Ordered in last night and we made more Stove top s�mores. My SIL�s son was with us all day. He�s a teenager with Autism spectrum disorder and also has been questioning his sexual �identity� if he�s gay or not. SIL was worried that after his therapy yesterday he wouldn�t want to watch the movie with us, but after he ate with me and my sons he came around to wanting to watch it. She however ditched the movie idea saying she had later plans to go to a concert with other people so he ended up with us for the evening.

Did a few things around the house as fixed uppers and the other night the closet clothes rack came off the wall right before inspection so that will need some attention.

This weekend I�m going out to the apartment and start with the lease. Need to get it done ASAP.

I�m tired today. Feel drained.

SIL said if I ever need to talk, I can talk to her. Told her thanks for the gesture but I don�t want to discuss anything about the sitch. She said she understood and she�ll always help with the kids. S11 went to her house last night and spent a night with them.

I told my female friend from work my sitch and how I want to stand for my marriage. Appears that she understood. She tried to offer advice from her perspective and was trying to coach me on pursuit.

Not much else going on. Hope to sleep early tonight.

SIL as in W sister?

Yeah, sister-in-law, TF.

This is the older SIL.

You seem to be handling her family well. Just remember to be careful. Blood is thicker than water. I still have a relationship with the ex-inlaws, but we do not talk about XW or the D. They are now just good friends

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Thanks TF, I have been taught very early in life that blood is indeed thicker than water. I've had some very tough lessons from that. I've got a very impulsive, hard headed brother. I've fought friends as a kid because I had to stand up for him vs them when it was his fault. I have an expectation that families stick up for their own no matter what.

I know whatever I say or bring up, it will find its way to W and I don't want that to happen. I'm not trying to convince the inlaws to hear my side. It's a juggling act though for sure. The older SIL had been sharing some of her issues with the new R and I have to be careful saying how I understand from my own relationship issues.

I'm still angry, hurt, upset, and disgusted with the way things happened with W. At the same time, I need to be the best me while standing for the MR. A lot of it is walking this journey alone, if you will. There is no one I can share my day with or confide in like I used to with her. I'm still trying to find me, trying to balance this all out.

TF, my in laws have always been super close and super kind. They love my boys and will pick them up on their days off and spend time with them, taking them out and doing things with them. I chose my BIL who is my friend as the godfather of my older son, and the youngest SIL as godmother to my younger son.

It's strange... the older SIL I was chilling with the last couple days is married to a guy who has 2 boys. They live right next to the xW so the boys can travel back and forth easily. The H is friends with his xW's H and last night the xW new H gave 4 basketlball tickets to the old H, my SIL new H.

Was near courtside and they all had a good time. I'll also say it here again, SIL goes on vacation with her xH and his new W as well for the kids.

Last couple of weeks I've taken my boys out to eat and ask W along, which she hasn't declined a free meal yet. Tonight is no exception. She told me about her problems with the new house, her work, and we talked and I validated. We went out for Tex Mex and had a couple of margaritas.

We discussed more things about the house with the negotiations and looking at what needed to be fixed. We agreed there for the most part on everything.

Adam, I don't really have much to offer other than to say it sounds like you are doing great! You're keeping focused on yourself and your kids and being an awesome dad. Your posts don't have a lot about W in them anymore. Even asking W along for meals sounds fine, as long as it's something you and the kids are doing whether she goes or not then it's not really pursuit. Everything sounds spot-on, just keep it going!

Just keep moving forward Adam. Detached & no expectations. You are doing well.

Keep strong there man!

Originally Posted by Adam04

SIL goes on vacation with her xH and his new W as well for the kids.

Whatever floats their boat, I would never do it. One of my friend's parents do that but hey that's their deal.

Hope you're doing well man!

Originally Posted by Adam04

I know whatever I say or bring up, it will find its way to W and I don't want that to happen. I'm not trying to convince the inlaws to hear my side. It's a juggling act though for sure. The older SIL had been sharing some of her issues with the new R and I have to be careful saying how I understand from my own relationship issues.

This is very wise Adam. It must be difficult to stay vigilant and not let your feelings or thoughts "slip" when talking to SIL. I'm sure it would feel great in the moment to have someone to commiserate with, but you're right to try to keep it private.

Originally Posted by Adam04

I'm still angry, hurt, upset, and disgusted with the way things happened with W. At the same time, I need to be the best me while standing for the MR. A lot of it is walking this journey alone, if you will. There is no one I can share my day with or confide in like I used to with her. I'm still trying to find me, trying to balance this all out.

This is one of the hardest parts, isn't it? Just missing the feeling of having your "other half". I never liked that phrase because I don't think people complete one another. I really do think we' are all whole within ourselves. But having someone who understands the nuances of your day and life is such a great experience, and you can't just replace that. It's hard. Good on you for working through it with awareness.

AS, Nef, Ovr, and Yail, thanks for the comments and support.

This past Friday, buyer agreed to closing price and W texted me at work about it and said she was relieved. I waited until my break time to text. I told her awesome news, glad she was relieved, must have been stressful. Then she texted me asking if she was insensitive. I told her no, didn�t really understand what she meant. She said she was worried about me. I told her given our situation that comes with the territory so I can see why she would feel that way. I told her I was going to be okay. She said she just wanted to let me know she cares and loves me and didn�t want to be insensitive. I didn�t respond back. Later she asked me to sign some papers and I did and that was it.

Saturday I was heading to look at apartments and she had a meeting at the new house. We took the kids out to eat in that area and they went with her. I saw two, got applications and went home. It took a few hours. Wasn�t feeling good so rested. Back has been achey. Sunday it took a while to research the crime rates , compare the two places , look at the zoning , and talked to W about the schools for the kids.

I picked a place with older people, wasn�t gated, but the place is towards the back facing outside towards the woods. I now am thinking I should have chosen one towards the inner courtyard for safety concern. I got 2bedrooms , one for the kids to share. They don�t have alarms. Been forever since I�ve lived in an apartment so will need to adjust. It does have a fireplace and it�s affordable. Will call the office to see if I can get the one facing the inner court.

W has been temp checking me a lot this weekend initiating a lot of small touching. I didn�t put much stock into it. Felt like she was doing this out of guilt or that she sees the finish line ahead.

Haven�t been feeling well. Back been achey like coming down with something and mild coughing. Slept early last night and feel better.

From all of this, I will make it and I will make the best of it.

Sorry to hear you are feeling bad! Hope you are better soon. If you need a good alarm system for your apt. check out Ring, I installed one in my house a few months ago and it works fantastic. It comes with screws and sticky pads, so you can install it using the sticky pads in an apartment and remove it when you leave without having to patch any holes or anything.

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W has been temp checking me a lot this weekend initiating a lot of small touching. I didn�t put much stock into it. Felt like she was doing this out of guilt or that she sees the finish line ahead.

Yes I imagine it's a little of both. It usually happens when they realize they are going to get their way and don't have to treat you like the "bad guy" anymore.

Journaling,

Not a whole lot has happened over the last week or so. At some point when I was getting the apartment I was telling myself this is as real as it gets. Wednesday, yesterday we signed over the house and the money is in the bank. Leasing the house until mid April.

Yesterday, when I got home from work, W asked if we could talk. And I said sure, what's up. She said she wanted to talk about us, and I paused. She said something about she was thinking about going forward and the next plans. I asked so does this mean you want to draw a separation agreement or talk about divorce? She said no, she didn't see that but liked how I had been over the last few weeks and can see herself with me, BUT she felt like the physical separation would be good for us. For her to see how she felt. She said something about moving on.

When my W said she needed this time to see where we were at, I let her know I was not waiting around. The conversation didn't last long and I remembered to keep my responses short but I cant remember it word for word. I said something like everything from the last 7 months made things way more complicated, its not that simple any more. A lot has happened and its a lot to process. I told her I agreed with her that we should move on.

I still cant sleep well at nights, bed feels hard to sleep on. Just thinking about the day to day stuff. I think about my kids a lot.

And yesterday I told my W that S6 doesn't know. She said she understood and I asked her to at least think about what she will tell him when we do separate. She said she will.

This morning we had a small talk. It was about last night/yesterday. She said she got it that I was being nice because I had moved on. For the last few weeks I was being care free with the kids and around her. She said she could see her working it out with this version of me and not the one who always accused her of doing something.

I said in 7 months I'm sure you still have the find my phone off "out of principle." In the last year, she's woken up in the mornings 3am due to work or something else, but when it came to the divorce, she can fall sound asleep. She said she wasn't going to defend her sleep habits and how do I know she was not "bothered" by what was happening between us. I almost lost it when she said bothered as if the D was only some small irritation or trouble to her. I told her I was disgusted with the way this all happened and if she wanted out she could have taken a different approach.

I don't like the extra conversation I had with her this morning.

I thought this might happen but didn't know how it would go down. One of the last things Sandi mentioned to me months ago was that when we separate I'd need to convey to W that this separation wasn't just due to circumstance. I think some of what led to my convo with W was driven by that. I didn't know how to navigate around putting blame on W. I didn't see any way around it at the time except to not have the convo with her at all.

Have a busy month. A lot of overtime on the weekends, and the move... I did take a couple of female friends out to try a Brazilian caf� last Saturday. Both good friends and loved it. One will take her husband out to try it. The other friend from work I don't talk to as much or often. We talk about Game of Thrones though and share some other interests.

Send me the 2x4s, that talk this morning went left and was not needed. The one yesterday however felt like it was needed. I don't plan to have more of them. I'm ready for the move and to get settled into this new life.

journaling,

Been busy packing for the move.

Few days ago I came across my first Anti-MWD article. I wasn't sure how to process it. Read it and didn't agree with it. Made me think for a minute though that when I was reading DR and coming here, this new process was something I wanted to stick with and learn, still learning. Still working on.

The thing I took away from reading the article was that I wanted to have some grace and dignity when I look back at this whole experience. I'm sure there are other support groups out there that provide a different avenue for those looking to expose the WAS and emphasize the blaming. I guess what I find as inner strength the blogger didn't.

Been thinking about trying to keep it classy. Also still watching videos. More videos now on no contact or minimal contact with children involved. I have made some mistakes in this process but ones I've tried to learn from. Like the last convo with W. I didn't like how I was trying to say I was done. If there is a next time she brings up R talk, I'll be pleasant and listen. Say I'll need time to think about things and leave it at that. No blame. She alrdy knows. I don't want to be angry and latch onto anything and use it to let her have it.

I do want to be as attractive and confident as I can be around her at all times. This means even when she is temp checking me or testing me, I should know what to do. This is where that balance in emotion comes in. Need to quickly differentiate when she is being disrespectful and addressing that on the spot to letting her talk her mess and then validating and moving on. My life is moving on.

Yesterday when I got home, W asked me "So what do you want to do with the boys and their school?" We plan to keep them in the same school until the end of school year. Currently we live like 5 minutes away from their school. When we move to the next town over, there's going to be some traffic involved. Moving out April 18th so W was planning to drop them off every day and pick them up. I told her I would like for both of us to get settled first and then to start a routine as quickly as possible for them so they will start getting used to it. She said she agreed and would start dropping them off at school and picking them up every day and she already talked to her boss about leaving early to do that. I told her that was not what I meant. I was meaning once we are settled in, as in I get the kid's room ready soon with their beds, I'm going to drop them off and pick them up on my weeks and we alternate weeks. We'll wake up extra early so we have time for drop off and going in to work (we as in me and the boys waking up extra early). She said Oh and gave me a look. I told her for now let's just see about getting settled in, a lot is going to be in the air. Maybe she didn't think I was serious about the 50/50 starting this soon. We'll see what works for our boys if 1 week is too long without either parent. Maybe a day in the middle of the week for dinner with the other parent as suggested by R2C I believe.

I need to get the boys' room ready. I get the apartment on the 8th and we are leaving this house on the 18th so I have some room to buy new beds. BUT she is going on her vacation with her sisters the week before the 18th. I've probably said that several times now. I'll make it work. Then I have 3 Saturdays coming up I'm working overtime. The Saturday before the 18th my BIL offered to help watch them while I'm at work so that's helpful.

The shuffling will start soon. I plan to show nothing but good vibes. R2C if you read this I saw one of your posts about forgiveness. I read up on it the other night.

For the most part I am at peace. When I reflect back alot of it is focus on me and how I see myself. It's what I want to change in how I act or what I say and the things I do.

8 months will be coming up and it kinda feels like yesterday since BD.

As for how I feel about going forward. I'm taking it day by day. Not lonely anymore. Haven't felt that in a few months I think. Hard to remember a timeline. Haven't taken any notes while living with W.

My plan when we settle in on the 50/50 split is to keep it positive. Be upbeat in dealing with her. We keep it to the kids. I'll be nice, friendly. Not cold or mean. Definitely not pursuing. That has died a while back. I will keep my emotions in check. I think somewhere deep down I will always want some sort of truth and I know I will never get it. Apart from the kids, I think this is what I'll have to control my emotions on. Anyways, won't get hung up on it, but that's what will be in the back of my mind opposed to pining about us being together.

I haven't GAL lately. That will come in time. I imagine when I do as with dating, it will help with detachment more. For now though, I think I am okay. There is much to be done with the move and trying to provide some stability for the kids.

Just checking in to share a little. I'm reluctant to say I have detached to where I want to be. I notice when people say that, they usually aren't yet. Do we really know where we're at with our ever-changing feelings? It'll come in time. I saw Steve comment about this and compared it to the stock market, saying if we were trending up, its going in the right direction. I'll see. I am happy with some of the slight changes I've made in my behavior overall but too soon to tell.

Been listening to this

Scars (piano version)
by Black Label Society

Say your peace
For I'll be on my way
One last look, nothing left to say

As I turn my back, to walk away
I shall forgive
But I won't forget that day

For every sky that shines
Shall meet the pouring rain
For my will shall never break
Though it may bend
Like the scars that heal
Yet never mend

When lies become the truth
Well, you've got your beliefs
No burdens on your mind
They're buried beneath your feet

As I turn my back, to walk away
I shall forgive
But I won't forget that day

For every sky that shines
Shall meet the pouring rain
For my will shall never break
Though it may bend
Like the scars that heal
Yet never mend

As I turn my back, to walk away
I shall forgive
But I won't forget that day

For every sky that shines
Shall meet the pouring rain
For my will shall never break
Though it may bend
Like the scars that heal
Yet never mend

For every sky that shines
Shall meet the pouring rain
For my will shall never break
Though it may bend
Like the scars that heal
Yet never mend

Adam , you are going the right direction, it�s hard , step by step , the odd stumble and doubt , but keep going and you will get there my friend

Hey Adam, glad to read you are moving forward. You�ve done a great effort within a short time period. Just keep the focus in your goals and being there for the kids. Just as you are doing right now. Ease your mind, try to get some GAL, get some time to rest. Hard days are coming man, be aware of that. Just be on a balanced state of mind. Remember you can control what you can control. Keep DB basics.

Be strong there Adam. It�s another leg in the regatta, another mile in the marathon. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sending my best wishes for you and your family. Keep shining there.

(((Adam)))

Thanks tryhard and neffer,

Hard days are ahead for sure. This is like the 4th time I tried to update but every time I get on, something happens. Last time I didn't have enough time to finish this at work while on the iPhone. First time I journaled in bed on the ipad until I fell asleep with the kids. It started with me thinking I didn't have much going on or to say until I realized I had over 15 paragraphs with more wanting to come out. Much of it was recollection in no particular order over small things from the past week. I'll try to recap and summarize best I can.

First, got my apartment stuff taken care of. Did the walk through on the 8th, and will move all the furniture from here on the 16th. Will take some time to fully furnish and debating on which room to give the kids. bigger room will accommodate two twin beds but S6 might want to sleep in it and bigger room has the window that drops out to nowhere since we will be on second floor. The smaller room has a window that goes out to the walkway leading up to the front door in case there has to be an emergency. I know, trivial stuff. Definitely will put paintings up to cover this really ugly color on the walls I didn't pay much attention to in the beginning... I guess I had so much to think about when I was in the apartment that the color of the walls didn't matter at the time, but now it does... go figure.

Last couple of weeks, W and I have been teaching our S6 how to ride his bike without the training wheels. H's getting there and is practicing coasting down the driveway with his legs out to the sides for better balance. He was so proud to pedal for a few feet on his own. We all were so proud. He gets the biggest grins. I thought he might not have been too aware of the sitch with W and I until a night or two ago he said "Dad, I am really going to miss you." And I said, "What do you mean son?" He said, "At the new house." He is counting down the days and this morning he said 5 more days before the move. I told him I was going to miss him too and that I was going to probably see him more often than he thought. S11 explained to him I was going to have him every other week. He had that big grin again.

Regarding S6, he asks mom why did she marry me and asks me why did I marry her. We each tell him different things of what made us fall in love with each other. This kid is really smart. Sometimes he'll ask us to group hug or for me and mom to kiss and we have diverted much of the physical until a couple of nights ago. He asked us to kiss and W said okay. We both leaned in for one and kissed. At around this point she started to put him to bed in the MBR and fall asleep there. She'd eventually get up late at night and go back to the living room. One night she fell asleep in there with both boys and it was late with no room so I slept on the couch.

For a while, I have been eating out by myself on Fridays trying new places(except that one evening asking the female friend from work). W this past Friday asked if I wanted to do something with her and the kids and I told her I had plans already. I'm controlling asking her if she wants to go with me and the kids to eat and declining much of her invitations to go with her or her family. I have used the 8/2 rule going about twice out of every 10 times. Feelings are put on the backburner and I am enjoying myself with the kids and in her company. Being the best me I can.

A couple of nights when packing W mentioned something about us and wanting to try to work it out and that after this, she will want to see a professional for help to sort out her feelings. I said okay. One night, she listed about 10 things she noticed in me and said she wished I was like this before and that it was too late to work on it because I had decided to move on. I didn't say anything. I validated, sometimes being quiet, saying nothing. Other times, I said sorry, I know how hard that must have been for her to deal with things. Once she said I was a better partner, dad, she saw I had a life of my own, I was doing things for myself, with her and the kids, I was balancing my life out and this is who she wanted to be with and she was upset that its happening now and she doesn't have a chance to be with this guy. She was also afraid that this wasn't going to last. I said I can imagine how tough it is to deal with that uncertainty. I told her I know it [censored] to feel like you don't have a partner.

On Monday night, W said she had a SNAFU and tried to explain to me she needed me at the closing on her house on Tuesday the following day. I showed concern wondering what the papers were and asked for a copy of them. She said because Texas was a 50/50 state the lender said they needed me on closing. She started crying saying she would figure it out. I went to google and also divulged I had talked to a lawyer. We spoke to the realtor friend of ours who also spoke to a lawyer friend and they confirmed it wasn't part of any co-signing. They basically told W that it was part of acknowledgement that she is closing on the house. I told her I would go.

Tuesday morning she has to do the final walk through of the new house and says she will pick me up to drive out to close. I thought about people saying its probably best to drive separately. I told her no problem, we can drive together. So after her walk through she comes by and I drive us out there. We get there early and we start signing documents. It's documents stating I am on the deed. She starts to have this puzzled look and tells the closing agent maybe there was something wrong with the paperwork or the process. The lady says because Texas is a 50/50 state it was required for me to sign and that I didn't need to be on the loan app. When we were almost done signing, our realtor friend comes in. We chit chat and the other lady asks us if this is bittersweet because we started with the house as a married couple and here we are signing documents but going through a divorce. The lady said she wasn't an expert but knew that Texas didn't recognize legal separation so we both had to be there to sign together. Guess it took a minute for it to sink in with W. Not once had I shown or have any negative vibes or feelings.

After closing, W and I took our realtor friend out to brunch and she called her H to join us for drinks. We tried fried pig ears and had lunch, laughing at past stories. The H and I also tried different whiskies. I'm a cognac guy but I can drink anything. After lunch, W said her keys were ready and asked if we could drive out to the new house to pick them up from the sales office. We were closer by there anyways so I said yeah no problem.

We drive out and got there. She picked up the keys from the model home and the guy told her the builder also left her a gift inside the house. We drove to the house and she asked me in. At first I wasn't and then I said F it, I'm going in. The house was beautiful. The builders gave her some nice flowers, a nice Tiffany's vase and a small bag from Tiffany's. She opened it and it was a heart bracelet. She immediately said she was giving it to her niece. I commented everything is nice but I thought the heart charm bracelet was a little "weird." On the drive home we had a small discussion about it and I explained we were still married and I still had these boundaries about the marriage. She said she didn't think the bracelet was anything personal from anyone nor ever got a vibe from anyone. The way I wanted to handle it was expressing my views on my W receiving anything that could be misconstrued as a personal item of affection from anyone so long as she is still my W. She said she understood the boundary part. She brought up again that she wanted to work it out and that it sucked I had moved on. I told her I didn't think it was right that she keeps saying it's too bad now she wants to work it out after I made the comment about moving on and if she really wanted to work it out, she would be doing so. I asked her, before we divorce, if she wanted the help, could she look into it because it was out there, but I am not going back to what we had.

Then we got home... and we both had copies of the signed documents to the new house. We had small talk to break the ice. She went to the MBR closet to put away the papers, I had put away papers too and I leaned against the counter in the bathroom as she was walking out the closet and she stood there for a second looking at me. There was some friction in the air and I turned my open palm upward and outward and she walked towards me. At this point I embraced her with both arms and her face was very close to mine. We gazed into each other's eyes for a moment. Then I titled my head a small degree and she slowly leaned forward. We slowly kissed for what felt like eternity. First it was soft brushing of the lips to full on kissing with darting tongues from both of us. It felt like it had when we were teenagers. Several minutes into it she slowly pulled back and said she didn't want to get hurt again. I gazed into her eyes and said we don't have to do anything she didn't want to do. I said something like we're here for right now. No pressure about the future. She looked at me and pressed into me. We both continued the slow hot heavy kissing. My hands on the back of her thighs, pressing her into me. My kissing moved from her lips to her neck and kept going. My hands were exploring her body as if for the first time. She had an orgasm in the bathroom and afterwards she led me to the bedroom where we finished. We ended with small kissing on the lips and cleaned up. So apparently I got a little too heavy and put a pretty big passion mark on her neck. She didn't comment or say anything about it. Kinda laughed.

She later asked me, "did you just use me for sex?" I asked her back, "Did you?" She said no, I said well there is your answer too. And we both smiled and laughed. Later we picked up the kids and went out to eat with her siblings because they were also coming to spend the night. She had to text them about her neck to give them a heads up.

So from Wednesday W has been on vacation with her sisters to scout this destination wedding location for her older sister for next year. Since sex, W has been a little different like kinder and affectionate with touches.

Few things for me. When I was a teenager, I've had goodbye sex with a few girls before. This could very well be that. I am not putting any expectations on it. I enjoyed it and left it to the moment. I didn't go strapped, which is my bad but I don't carry condoms expecting sex like that.

W has been facetiming the kids and we talked earlier today. She laughed at my corny jokes when she called early in the morning before work. Said she wanted to speak to the kids.

I was watching a video about for the guy gaining back respect is not always about going full no contact and for the man this ever really works because how the woman perceives it. The man has to take the opportunities to show the woman. I agree there is no faking this. I am taking it day by day trying to make the best informed decisions I can at the time and dealing with the consequences.

It's too early for me to get too analytical about it. Feels like a big grey area where thawing can be cake-eating. She is nowhere remorseful and to recon, that's what I am expecting. I don't have any expectations however at this point. Deep down, I am hoping she gets some help for a start...

Your thoughts?

Adam,

Wow - that's a turn for the books.

I think your instincts are correct. Things are finally becoming real for her and there is a sense of panic around her behavior.

You have come so far Adam ... you have built a life for yourself and are ready to face the world without your W. Now that she is wavering, you need to ask yourself what it is that you want.

If there is a part of you that still wants to R, then just breath and let it happen how it will. No pursuit, no expectations. Carry on with your life as you have been and let what happens happen.

I would only caveat this with you must be certain there is no longer anOM. You have worked so hard to regain your self respect. Don't lose it now.

S6 sounds like my D9. H took them away for a couple of days to visit a theme park. On our nightly phone call she said very loudly "I wish you were here mummy". The next night she made a point of saying that she couldn't go on some rides because D12 was too big for them (and H couldn't leave D12 on her own) and D12 couldn't go on some rides because it would mean D9 would be on her own. They both also said they couldn't get me one of those key rings with their photos in it that they take when your on a ride because H was in the photos and he didn't think I'd want one with him in it.

They are pretty smart these little people.

Hi FS,

Part of me still wants the R. Going at this with no expectations. I cant be certain there is OM or not. She hasn't read any of those romance novels in maybe months and I get no vibes from her being secretive or doing something in my presence.

Last night was our last night in our old home. Been busting tail with the move. Because it was our last night and S6 sleeps with me, I asked if W would like to sleep with us and she did. She woke up and gave me a little back rub to help wake me up. We have been exchanging hugs and kisses more often(a lot of touch charges between us), kinda reverting back to what seems familiar but still awkward. I'm trying to just go with the flow and being in the moment.

Today was a big day, we had the movers drop off furniture at my apartment first where I am typing this now. Then it was to her place, or our place...whatever its called. She has the BIL and her nephews helping to put together her furniture for her. She hasn't asked me to do anything. She did ask me to help my S11 put his bunk bed back together because I was the one who took it apart. That I feel is okay to do, anything for the kids really. Earlier I was over there and helped put the kids to sleep for school tomorrow. We said night and I will see her tomorrow.

I'm tired. Been sore from all the lifting and moving. Gonna try to get some rest soon. As for how I feel about this new place... I'm okay with everything. It's a lot of adjustments like having filtered water, ice, personal space where I am not hearing noise from neighbors in all four corners. Have way too much furniture...

Originally Posted by Adam04

A couple of nights when packing W mentioned something about us and wanting to try to work it out and that after this, she will want to see a professional for help to sort out her feelings. I said okay. One night, she listed about 10 things she noticed in me and said she wished I was like this before and that it was too late to work on it because I had decided to move on. I didn't say anything. I validated, sometimes being quiet, saying nothing. Other times, I said sorry, I know how hard that must have been for her to deal with things. Once she said I was a better partner, dad, she saw I had a life of my own, I was doing things for myself, with her and the kids, I was balancing my life out and this is who she wanted to be with and she was upset that its happening now and she doesn't have a chance to be with this guy. She was also afraid that this wasn't going to last. I said I can imagine how tough it is to deal with that uncertainty. I told her I know it [censored] to feel like you don't have a partner.

EXCELLENT JOB! Really good stuff there. You didn't get drawn into an R talk, you simply listened and validated. Perfect.

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No pressure about the future. She looked at me and pressed into me. We both continued the slow hot heavy kissing. My hands on the back of her thighs, pressing her into me.

Interesting timing considering she just closed on her house. Hard to say what was going through her head, but I would say she probably is starting to feel "free" and can have sex with you without feeling any relationship pressure. Probably wouldn't have happened the day before because she would worry you'd put the full-court-press on her to stop the sale from going forward and drop everything to work on the M.

Anyway it sounds like you are doing great Adam, keep it up!

I need 2x4s and advice.

My focus in the last week has shifted temporarily to include my W a lot more than what I thought it would. This all happened with the moving to the new apartment and new house with both of us spending a lot of time with the kids to make sure they are adjusting well. One night my S6 said he didn't want me to leave her house so I stayed back until he fell asleep. W and I both have been cordial about this and she said I can come and go as I please. Even one time offered me the key and I declined.

Been a few days in the new apartment. Everything is quiet except me. I am on the second floor and when I walk the floors creak. Still have a lot of unpacking to do. I think it was Wednesday night after coming back to the apartment from W house I couldn't take another day of bathing so I went to a 24hour Walmart to buy a few things like shower curtain and liner. I was not going to keep using a 6oz cup to rinse myself in the tub.

The other day on the 18th I ran some errands like disposing the paint we had at the old house and W called and asked if I was going to pick her up for lunch. We had discussed previously we were going to meet to finish up doing stuff for the house. After lunch we ended up back at the new house, she invited me in and we watched Game of Thrones. There was no sofa or curtains at the time and we ended up having sex on the living room floor. If the neighbors were looking out their window they could have seen us. This could be part of being in the moment. I'd say the passion was there but if that means anything, I wouldn't know. I need some insight here.

Later that day W had to wait for a delivery and her sister and sister's H to come to help her put some stuff together. I picked up the boys from school. When I got back to the house, the BIL was telling me in another room that W said she could see herself getting back with this new me. I know to trust nothing they say. My BIL says from what he's heard about my sitch was that my W wasn't cheating on me in the sense I was thinking but could have been going to lunch with a male coworker. He said he swears and believes to his core my W didn't cheat from all the girls texting and talking, saying the sisters at her work would know and would have said something as much as they know. BIL says he gives us 6 months before I break my lease and we stop being stupid and work this out. I told him I appreciate him saying that but I don't think that's going to happen. I broke the rule of not speaking to her side. Since this guy is married to her sister, I consider him on her side. He was giving me advice because he was previously divorced. I told him if there were 10 signs, she'd meet 9 of them on cheating. I have no idea why I got into that mess with him when I've been doing good in the last 8 months. I think he just seemed to know it all and I wanted to tell him he didn't. I also told him I'm not trying to disrespect my W but he doesn't know everything.

W and I haven't talked about us but we are enjoying each other's company and she has invited me over to the house every day to be with the boys. Today she ran some errands and had asked me a couple days ago if I could be with the boys until she got back. I said sure no problem. She had a lash appointment and had to buy some stuff for the house so BIL could help do stuff.

My W and I, I feel are in an awkward stage of whatever this is. We both continue to give touch charges, when we pass things we slowly brush our hands against each other or hold the other persons arm, lower back, a few times hugging with my arms around her waist and her arms over my shoulders. She'd sit next to me opposed to months ago on the far side and she'd do nice things whether or not in front of her family or siblings like serving me something or asking me if I needed anything so it feels like she is warming up. However this is not constant. It's like she runs hot and cold with this to some small degree. Earlier I had dinner with her, the kids, and her brother and his wife and daughter. W commented on we made a great team. She said that a couple of times today and said we complimented each other. We got back to her place, went to brush our teeth and I went in for a hug. She gave me one but I sensed a little standoffish and I asked if this was a bit much and she said it could be. I've also found different moments to compliment her in what she does. Told her I was proud of her for her accomplishments with work and her great panache with the d�cor.

She texted me good night and thanked me for the evening and that she and the boys enjoyed it. I texted her back and told her thanks and also thanks for letting me know about earlier. She said she didn't want me to think she was rejecting me but also didn't want sex to stop us from working on ourselves. She said she really likes this new me and hanging out and didn't want us to fall back into old patterns. She re-iterated how she feels like we make a great team and compliment each other. Then also said but that means we are strong individually and as partners to each other.

This does not feel like what I thought I would be doing with drawing the line in the sand and keeping it all business-like.

This is that gray area where its been said thawing can be confused with temp checking and with the WAS using sex to keep the LBS hooked. So far I'm controlling my emotions and tell myself no expectations but I do think I'm slipping. What does this mean? I feel like I could be wanting more but I remind myself this isn't about me or what I want for the time being.

She had the boys midweek and will have the boys next week. On Friday I will get them for the following week.

I've mentioned this before that I read the post here where the guy saved his marriage with kindness while his W was with the OM. In that story the LBH I guess knew of the OM so at least there wasn't secrecy, if that amounts to anything. I had hoped to be like that guy. Then afterwards, I read what its like to be in the mind of the WW and the deceit. That deceit is still there in my W I'm sure but since there is no R talk, it doesn't surface. There is no longer any disrespect of any kind, no talking under breath, no saying anything bad at all in front of kids or not, no being secretive on the phone. Of course this could all be a sham, and then in the back of my mind I'm thinking and asking "How much time and thought do I want to give this and how much do I want to dwell on something I don't know?"

I feel a little guilty for enjoying some of the time I've had with her. I feel like I am letting down my guard for this woman and could possibly be hurting myself in the future. So, I am keeping my emotions in check.

Tomorrow for Easter, BIL is having something at his place for everyone and we plan to go with the kids.

I can picture the words of tough love and appeasing the W does not gain back her respect. Am I right that although it can feel like there is some traction in the right direction, this is not the right way to go about it? Since I'm physically separated now, I need to act like it and truly give her the space she has been wanting?

I definitely do not want to let W back in easy. At the moment there is no R talk so no chance for recon. I still hold firm in believing W will need to be remorseful for recon and honest about what happened. I guess because I don't see that on the horizon I'm enjoying the now. What makes me feel guilty about that is that I feel like I should be holding out for the future. These are not small wins to enjoy?

Btw, I will be working a lot of overtime in the upcoming months and she has offered to help with the kids on the weekends I am to have them.

This week I plan to get back into working out at the gym. Currently been resting a tennis elbow that is still painful to deal with.

Hi Adam

No words of wisdom for you I'm afraid. It sounds like the start of a new relationship, but with the baggage of the old one. Tough line.

You still want to R, that much is clear. You can't know what she wants unless she actually states it, and we both know she won't. So take it slowly, carry on as you have, living your life, being there for your kids, and generally being the awesome you you have become. Treat it like a new relationship - but tentatively with as few expectations, given the circumstances, as possible. Continue making plans for you and spend time with her (or her and the kids) because you enjoy it, not because it might lead to R. Live in the present with no expectations and no assumptions.

Continue doing you. The rest (whatever that may be) will follow.

Hmm what I wouldn�t give for having sex with my husband again!
That said, I think maybe you need to be playing a bit harder to get. What role did sex play in your marriage before? What did it mean to your wife? If she�s getting sex from you and you looking after the kids, what�s in it for her to R? Stick with the new better you and tread carefully, I reckon. If she�s not talking about R then don�t get ahead of yourself till she�s really committed, I think. Good luck

Hey FS and Dilly,

FS, I appreciate your perspective and yes, I understand W will not state what she wants I'm guessing for several different reasons.

Dilly, I hear you. I have those thoughts like you do about it and so many other thoughts as well. For the moment, I am not expecting anything and maybe I am being too easy and accessible for her. I thought about what you said if we have sex and I'm with the kids, what would make her want to R? The person she needs to become may see something in that. Maybe I am leaving that to chance. I'm not expecting anything and I wonder if she filed, would I still want to be around the kids and her as much. I'm sure there will be pain that I'll need to handle, but deep down yes, I am not at that point to 100% let her go, and I'm definitely not trying to play hard to get as a tactic.

On Easter morning, I went to the house early before the kids woke up and W and I had coffee and breakfast. We watched a movie on the couch and had small talk, holding hands, light touching. She continued the conversation we briefly had in text and she said she didn't want me to think she was pushing me away. She liked where we were at and didn't want to fall back into old patterns. I said I agree. She said we made a great team and has been wanting a partner. She asked if this made sense and I told her it does. I told her I want us both to be happy in the future and I think we deserve that partner, someone who helps each other and uplifts and also shares hopes and dreams. She had that smile that reminded me of the old her. She placed her hand on my face and started kissing me. We kissed for a long time and she said she loved my kisses. Me being the big meathead said I love your kisses too. We ended up in the bedroom twice that day. At the end of the night, she walked me to the front door and said have a good night, I love you and then caught herself and stopped.

The other night when I left the house, S6 said he didn't want me to leave. When I got back to the apartment, W texted me saying S6 wanted to text me. She said he texted me he loves me and misses me. She said she was sad by this. In the morning when I facetime the kids before school she said he was crying that night and she felt horrible. I said I could imagine how that felt.

I have been over to the house every day to see them, her and the boys. Last night I went out with them and her siblings to a restaurant. I met the older SIL I had lunch with before. We started drinking and W and the kids were done. They went to get desert next door to the restaurant and the SIL and I got another round of beer and drank a pitcher together. I should have known. I was doing well in not talking about the R with anyone except 2 close friends and my close brother which that stopped early on in the sitch. SIL asked me about the apartment and what I would be doing when the lease was up and then slid in questions about W and I being together so that opened up some answering to questions I thought were safe then I was telling her too much. It was just too much about how I felt. She said she sees that we still care about each other and maybe just need to give it time to work things out. I told her no, I don't think there is any going back to what was in the past because of the stuff that had been going on. I told her she's W sister and will be on her side so I respect that and am not saying anything to try and swade her. I later texted her this morning apologizing for anything I said because I was drunk and in my feelings. Sister in law said she sees W and I still in love and SIL will do anything to help with the kids and she will always be there. She's a sweet person for that.

I have a long way to go. I'm not wanting to pressure W into anything. I'm working on being patient, not being emotional, not holding anything in with being passive aggressive. In time things will shift and we both will see how this physical split is affecting us and the kids. Even after 8 months since BD, this feels like the beginning.

I have my apartment now, I can leave this up. I can have notes, my books out. I can work on me. I have high hopes in this next year I will continue to work out and get down to my original weight. My boys are happy. Still adjusting to this new norm.

Time and patience, as usual Adam. Glad to read what you wrote.

Just keep expectations under control so as to get anxiety away. Keep your road of getting amoafwl. W sees that.
Shine for the kids, they need that light!

Keep walking man.

Time and patience.

Hey Adam...been a while and it looks like things are improving. As you saw in my sitch there has been the same. Definitely beware of the negative thoughts though...through my IC I found I had for sure experienced some PTSD to some degree and catch my self spiraling in my own head about past events.

If some kind of R is what you want, live for the day, look forward to tomorrow and be a better person along the way.

Adam, things are progressing nicely, your W is starting to realize that life without you maybe isn't as good as life with you. But I think you are setting your DB'ing aside and letting yourself get swept up in your W's cake-eating. Please understand she is not even remotely interested in recon right now, she's just trying to ease her transition to the single life and she's using you to do it. You really need to get back to DB basics. Remember why you are here, remember what got you here, remember your goals and remember how you can achieve those goals. Focus! I realize you are trying to ease the transition for the kids, but don't play house with W. It's just going to be painful to you when you temp check her and get BD'd all over again.

Quote

...and the SIL and I got another round of beer and drank a pitcher together.

Why??????? Why would you do that? REMEMBER YOUR GOALS. Ask yourself "Is what I am about to do getting me closer to my goals are farther away?" ASK YOURSELF THIS ALL THE TIME.

Nef, lost, AS, thanks guys for the support.

Nef, yup, as usual, time and patience. This will be a long road ahead. I was deviating and falling off. Need to get back on track for myself and my kids. I was enjoying time with W and was caught up in the moment.

lost, hey bud, how are you? Sorry to hear you were experiencing some PTSD. Taking it day by day for sure. I need to step back and re-evaluate where I am and what I want.

AS, thanks for those words to help me get back on the right path. I know the drinking with the SIL was a bad idea when it was a few drinks in. At first it was just to enjoy a cold one and my BIL was there too but he decided not to drink and I was like ayyy, free beer.

I was enjoying the sex and thinking it didn't matter if it didn't affect my emotions and I had no expectations on R.

Going to go back to being scarce, keeping convos short and pertaining to kids or finances, and not giving in to the sex if she even initiates? Am I hearing this clearly? Guess I can do this another 8 months which will put me at 1 1/2 years...sounds about right. Let's see where this takes me on my journey.

I'm sure she will ask about the sudden change if she makes advances. Wondering what I can say to be vague or to let her know I've done some thinking and "it's probably best we don't" and leave it at that.

AS, I'm sure you're right that if I temp check her she'd BD me all over again. I don't have any interest to find out.

Hi Adam,

I just got caught up on your sitch. Very interesting.

Quote

My BIL says from what he's heard about my sitch was that my W wasn't cheating on me in the sense I was thinking but could have been going to lunch with a male coworker.

My inlaws said this too, about a year ago, after I learned that my W stayed over at OM's. FIL immediately said "maybe they didn't sleep together, we don't know that". It was so reactionary and visceral. He couldn't believe what he was hearing, didn't want to believe that his goody 2 shoes daughter was having an affair. Family puts on the rose colored glasses for other family.

I think you are making serious progress on yourself and on your W. But no one knows what will happen. Don't go too fast, but don't be afraid to be true to yourself. These DB boards can become an echo chamber at times. Be you.

Your son sounds like an awesome little dude btw.

Adam - when BD first happens our emotions are all over the place and can't and shouldn't be trusted. So we rightly, go against our instincts, stop all pursuit and work on us. It is hard as hell but we do it. We keep conversations short because anything more could lead to more hurt and backsliding. We guard our hearts. But slowly, over the months through GAL, 180 and detaching, and acquire the tools to navigate their storms (and some storms of our own making). And we come here. We use this board to question, to vent, and sometimes as a way to constructively make our way out of the cheeseless tunnels (by way of one or two of AS's 2x4s).

Like you I had put the tiny flicker of hope that refuses to be extinguished way way back at the back of my mind. Whenever it pops up (an unexpected smile, a gift, a small kindness) I say "temp check" and push it away.

But at some point we should be able to trust our intuition again and cautiously let down our guard.

We forget that it is OK to hope. It is OK to enjoy intimacy with your W. It is OK to show kindness. Just don't expect.

Open up your heart a little (reciprocate smiles, reciprocate invites, offer small kindnesses). Become friends. But do so with no expectation. Expectation is what brings on the hurt and remember she has been careless your heart before.

hey ovrrnbw, Haven't seen you in a little while. Hope all is well with you. That sounds kinda crazy your FIL for saying that. I get what BIL was saying though if it was a male coworker because W and I have been going to lunch for years with people of the opposite sex. I've met many people from her work and her mine. Some point I lost touch with that, and not saying its bad. Just unfortunate that our marital problems would be fuel for all the other mess.

FS, I hear you and thank you. I've been showing kindness to W all week. Although I feel numb at the moment. I don't know what to feel.

This last week I have had my boys over at the apartment and we live upstairs. They make sooo much noise stomping. They are not used to living in an apartment and I know the lady downstairs with her small child can hear mine throughout the day and nights. I feel bad. W has been over almost every night. She calls to ask if she can come over to hang out with the kids.

Earlier last weekend, she said this " Adam, I need you to pick up the boys on x day because people from out of town will be coming in and so and so will be going to dinner with us from work" I asked, is this on your week and she said yes. I told her I couldn't. I think she was withdrawn after that. She seemed to run hot and cold with emotion. She then said she will see about trying to schedule an earlier dinner or something and figure it out. She asked if I would be working out that week and I said yes. W had helped me with the kids when I was doing overtime and maybe she felt like it was natural for me to help her when she needed it. The way it sounded was like she expected me to help though.

So this stuck out and she said some other things and I didn't want her to get the wrong impression. I remember she said she didn't want to get hurt with us being physical so one night when she was over I wanted to stop the bleeding and to let her know maybe its best if we stopped for a while due to listening to AS advice on getting back to DB basics.

My mind has been swimming for a couple of days and I cant piece everything that has been said. It ended up with her feeling hurt because she said she thought we were working towards recon. I told her no I didn't see that because of an initial hurdle and it isn't that easy anymore. She said she had to leave. I addressed that as well. I told her for a long time whenever we would have a discussion if it was heated or not, if she didn't want to deal with it she would leave. I told her this was a form of control. This time she sat for a minute and let it sink in. I told her it would be different if she said something like I need to cool down and come back to resolve this but it doesn't happen that way. So I confronted her on that in the moment like I thought I should. When she did leave we ended up texting. I texted her telling her about the infidelity being the first obstacle to any type of recon if there was to be recon. She acted clueless, said she was not cheating, and said she knows what she wants.

She said she knew what she wanted when I was at her house and we were together on the sofa. I didn't ask her that time because I didn't want to bring up any R talk. This time she said it and was asking me about us so I asked her what she wanted. She sent me a text saying she wanted to work on us, she didn't want a divorce. She wanted to work on better communication, being transparent. I asked her if she knew what transparent meant. So I broke it down, if I had access to all her apps, emails, skype, phone, have her turn on the find me app, or ping me her loc at any time if she would ever have a problem with this if she wanted to be transparent. She said no that she would not have any problems with it. This was a convo in text unfortunately that spanned over a day. She said she was willing to go to MC and work on us. She said she wanted to make all the decisions with the house and I guess be in control but when she was in that big empty house without me and the boys she realized it didn't mean [censored]. She still swore she did nothing wrong with the cheating and didn't know why I felt that way. I told her to google it to humor me and she said she saw 9 out of 10 signs that what she was doing matched a cheating spouse and was so sorry.

For the birth control pills, she told me she has medical records going back to when it began if I wanted to look at them. She tried to explain everything else but some things she couldn't. The guy pic, the lying...

She said her life has been her family, me and the boys and her work and she has worked so hard to get where she was. She said she would not risk an affair at work with anyone over her job because her job meant everything to her. She also said she realized she put her job ahead of me and was putting a lot of stuff ahead of me because she felt like I checked out. She wanted a partner. She told me what she saw in me when she was over here with the boys in me cooking for them, taking them to school and providing, this is what she wanted in her partner.

I told her I'm sorry but I'm not sure if I can trust her and maybe its just best we focus on the kids for now. We talked about coming out on the other side better people and at the least we can be better coparents. She said we would need to stop the physical stuff because she might get the wrong idea between us and don't want to get hurt.

W said she will get help and will work on herself. I even suggested John Gottman to her. Would there be anything I could suggest if this does come up again or should I just let it rest?

We spoke in hypotheticals. We talked as if recon could be in the distant future but I'm still adamant about the remorse and getting truth. I am expecting and expecting something that I know will never happen and it is starting to hurt so I want to go numb.

A part of me wants to believe her and that want is going to hurt me. I feel like she is playing games with me yet I sense she does want to keep the family together for the boys and her. She included me but I don't 100% believe she wont cake eat while having me at home for the boys and someone else for her other needs.

So... I said what I said to her and she reciprocated back she understood and we'd be cordial. I feel like there is going to be this taboo and air between us. I'd want her and need to discipline myself and have self control.

I know the texting could have been to a minimal and we tried to facetime but with the kids here, that time to talk was minimal.

From all of this, I know I need to give myself some space from my W and believe nothing she says. I thought about a polygraph test and what that would mean if W ever asked what it would take.

I haven't gotten on much due to my S11 pc is right next to mine and he can look over to see what site I am on.

This weekend, I am going to look for my boys' bed(s) and the older one's pc. Next week my S6 turns 7 and W and I have taken the day to spend with him. After that, it will be getting them back into riding their bikes and going to the park with the pond. I also plan to workout next week.

Getting up earlier at 5ish to drive the kids out and making it in to work on time so far. Worked out an alternate schedule with my boss in case I'm late. Have tons of overtime coming up because of a new conversion with the software. W has offered to help with the kids on my weeks.

I have slept better when I had the bed to myself. Now its full with the kids. W and I haven't adjusted yet to being totally separated from one another. There was maybe one day she didn't come over because of her brother doing something at her house. And the same for me going over there. Next week, this may change as I work out and come home later.

Have a few more boxes to unpack and I'll be done. Oh... and I am proud of my S11 for doing things around the apartment. I am showing him how to cook, use the rice cooker, and cook up stuff on the stove. I supervised and he chopped up some sausage to stir fry with some rice. Basic stuff to start with.

Adam: you sound very confused and I'm sure she's picking up on that. You did really well telling her how she distances, maybe you could come up with suggestions on how to handle that? As a distancer myself it's a way of handling rejection and overwhelming emotion. You could suggest having a 30 minute timeout if she feels like she needs to leave, that could be a good start. I'm assuming if she's a distancer then you are the pursuer? But it seems like that's a behaviour you're changing, which is good.

I haven't read all of your sitch, but do you guys just go out on dates ever, just the two of you? If not, I highly recommend you start there. I know neither of you want to get hurt and both of you want to R (really, she does, I know you feel untrusting but it seems like she's realised how much she has to lose). So if you go back to basics, take her out somewhere new and do something nice together (activities are good, they take the pressure off unlike face to face dinners) then maybe you can start to rebuild, nice and slowly. Which seems weird when you've had sex, but hey at least you know that side of it is still good right?

Hi Dilly,

Yeah I guess I am the pursuer if she is the distancer. And yes that is changing.

As for the confusion, I knew it was getting late I think it was 12am when I wrote that and it was hard to try and remember convos with her word for word or the timing over a week. As for my feelings, I�m guarded and every so often I want to let the walls down so I can pick up her vulnerability. If I was hard, dismissive, and always matter of factly, she�d not want to come back. The trick is trying to navigate thru this cake eating and thawing. It�s easier to ask well has anything changed and if not we continue about our normal business. If the right thing to do is wait before dating her again for an admission of guilt then that is what I am waiting on. From what I�ve read to seen, if there is an AP that cord needs to be cut first and if we can�t even get to the first step of being honest about that then that dating will still be under the veil of deceit. That�s just how I feel and maybe the confusion lies around that. If there were any expectation it would be a hurtful truth as an indication to me that she is finally coming around to possible recon. Not sure if dating would equate to that. Just saying what I would imagine the first step to be like towards recon.

I think I can do the dating, have sex, enjoy her company and have no expectations better than she can. This is where I didn�t want to misrepresent myself or come across as careless. For some living in the moment could be seen that way. That could sound conflicting, living in the moment with no expectations to guard our feelings vs believing what a foundation should look like for a possible MR 2.0, built on some honesty in the form of admission or truth of what happened. Yeah it all sounds confusing to me too.

Sometimes trying to think about it all and put it into words is a bit much. I am seeing some of her steps inthe right direction toward recon but the remorse and truth of what happened isn�t there.

I need to stay the course as a single father getting his life straightened out and not get caught up in my feelings.

Originally Posted by Adam04

I think I can do the dating, have sex, enjoy her company and have no expectations better than she can. This is where I didn�t want to misrepresent myself or come across as careless. For some living in the moment could be seen that way. That could sound conflicting, living in the moment with no expectations to guard our feelings vs believing what a foundation should look like for a possible MR 2.0, built on some honesty in the form of admission or truth of what happened. Yeah it all sounds confusing to me too.

Hey Adam,

Good to see things moving in a positive direction I hope. I pulled this quote because it is a possible MR 2.0. If things are working out no one wants to go back to the old MR. The key is the expectations. It wasn't until I knew that I could live without W or WW or whatever that I was able to drop the rope. I was scared, angry, resentful and once that all passed I made the change that ultimately made her the pursuer.

It wasn't until then that she offered up full disclosure, a change in everything that brought back a more recognizable person than the alien form I had seen for the last year. I am comfortable putting my toe back in the water...not taking a total header just in case it is shallow. She will need to continue with her transparency, you shouldn't have to ask and it should be without hesitation and when you feel the need, not all the time....otherwise it will drive you crazy! Sex? absolutely if she is initiating, I find she will initiate more because because I am not...I am just continuing to make myself better for me and that is probably the most attractive thing that gets noticed.

But still be aware, no expectations...you will know if something is not right. My wife now offers up everything...100%, even if she is just going to the store. She wants my trust and knows this is the only way.

Lost, you can not imagine how living into lies is. It�s a blood pressure bomb. When we are clean from mind and action, we enjoy that transparency too.

Keep moving forward Adam. You know how to do it. You are doing well.

Patience

Last week W had the boys and I've been over there at W request almost every day; she says the boys tell her that they miss me and they all want me over. She asked me to spend the night Thursday night all the way through Sunday morning. Friday was my son's bday party and we took him out to play laser tag and video games with big brother. It was just the 4 of us and we all had fun. We had a surprise party that evening for the bday boy.

I helped the boys get W a card, flowers and chocolates for Mother's day and I left them for the day when her family was coming over. I didn't get her anything or make breakfast. She loved the card the boys made her on top of the one the my younger son chose for her. It was a huge card with pop-outs.

W and I continued to have sex throughout the week and she did prompt some R talk. I told her we weren't going anywhere without getting over that first hurdle, which is the infidelity. She swore she didn't cheat on me with anyone and wished she had some way to prove it. I asked her what about the transparency plan and she said whatever it took. She said she knew it was her fault for getting us to this point of no trust. She said she wanted to work it out, but I felt like she wasn't pleading or begging or straight volunteering info or passwords.

When I picked up the boys that Sunday night, she was sad and later said she was crying in a text to us goodnight. She usually facetime. I told her I was giving us a chance to see if we could reconnect and see if she would open up and be forthcoming and it was too bad. I knew not to expect anything. I wanted it to be clear we weren't going anywhere and being physical should stop and that it was my fault. I told her nothing added up. None of it. So Monday and Tuesday pass and we're keeping our distance but still cordial. She hasn't come by for the boys to visit. She does facetime in the morning and at nights. We had another text exchange and this led to her saying she was very sorry and felt so guilty for all of this happening. She still claims she did not have any physical affair especially with anyone from work. I told her I couldn't believe it with everything going on and I asked her to get her boss to vouch for her, who is like her best friend. She said it was a career suicide to do that. So she couldn't and I told her when we Divorce it would come up any ways during discovery if my attorney decides to reach out and asks her boss and others that she named were there if they were really there that day. She said she hopes it doesn't come to that. I asked her about the lie detector test and if she was willing and she said yes, no problem with that. She said her work, the boys and I were her life until I lost sight of things and when I got hospitalized it was like I stopped caring. Internal bleeding, not taking care of myself, the blood pressure. The nights I thought I was going to die. She said all this made her turn away and she was so sorry for this but she never cheated on me. She is getting the medical records for the BCP. She is open about her phone. She is willing to take the polygraph and she has turned on the find me app. She was over here earlier when I asked her if she wanted to see the kids. She was happy but she was crying the whole time here. She seems sorry for what she was doing. She said she is going to choose a counselor and tell me. I didn't respond. I asked her to look into the smut books. She later texted me she realized how wrong it was when she researched it and the damage it did to relationships and she texted me a somewhat lengthy text saying she is deleting her kindle and getting self help books instead. She said she was sorry for putting me through all this pain and she felt like scum of the earth and didn't know how to forgive herself but feels like she has to put aside her feelings to work on this to rebuild the trust.

When she was over, we didn't kiss like we had been. No kissing or any intimate stuff. When she was crying, I held her in my arms on the couch for a moment because I was cooking the kids dinner. She sat and watched me taking care of my boys and she was like a fly on the wall. My boys were happy playing and I was doing what I needed to do as if she wasn't there.

Many months back, she asked if I would go on a summer trip with them and I said I don't think so. Well that has changed, I plan to go on the trip with them to Legoland. My younger son will be sitting between mom and me for comfort on the plane. He is deathly scared of planes and heights but he loves legos so much that he is willing to give it a shot. I can not miss this for the world.

So... my love for my kids, it brings tears to my eyes. I asked W to look into the effects a divorce has on the children. I asked her to think about how she felt about her job and possibly losing it as it was most of her identity. Then I told her to replace that with our two boys and how they will lose their parents for we are all they know. Think about that pain.

In all of this, she has shown no signs of rebellion or putting up a fight. She has looked into what I asked. I also am trying to internalize my actions and motives. I've tried expressing I want to be support and help guide but I don't want to be controlling. I want both of us to do the hard work and I think from what I'm seeing and hearing, she is slowly opening up to that.

I know, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. I get the picnic analogy. I expect her to yo yo back and forth.

School is ending. W and I went over the kids end of school year calendar together when she was over here. I wasn't going to pick them up early so she asked if she could. She said that it would be my week. I told her I didn't have a problem with that and since the boys wanted her to I'm all for it. I couldn't do it due to my work. We are co-parenting well.

We did hug and she tapped me on the back like one of those friendly taps and I told her no, You're not going to friend zone tap me like that. We both smiled and had this look like well what else can we do in this awkward position. I walked her down to her car since it was dark out and told her gnight.

I am in the process of looking for counselors. Not sure if there is a difference in male or female ones for men. Will choose one using the John Gottman method.

Few questions:

male or female counselor? does it matter?

When W wants to bring up R talk again, is there much more to talk about if we don't address the infidelity issue?

What are your thoughts on her taking the polygraph? I have a place and questions already.

What are your thoughts on going ahead on the transparency plan and asking for the passwords to everything and also the access to the cameras on the house. It'd be like spying to see who comes and goes.

What about poking through the phone?

I had a severe headache one time talking to her in this last week and it had something to do with the R talk but I didn't know what it was or cant remember. I was sort of shocked I was feeling this way.

I changed some info because now W is on her journey and will be out there on the internet looking for answers and help.

Earlier last week when W and I were being affectionate and physical I felt bad for the cake eating. Since I've stopped that, I've felt better. It was nice though. We shared a moment and had a glimpse of what it could be like. When I agreed to go to lego land they all were excited. We were excited to go for the kids. W even said we could take road trips and kinda jumped the gun and I did too, said we could make a bucket list for the family.

I think now would be a great time to find the right counselor.

I've never posted in your thread before, so forgive me if I'm getting ahead of myself.

I know there have to be conditions and transparency for a WAS, especially wayward, to be taken back. I get that it has to be something that would satisfy you. Access to phone is part of the deal in many cases. But navigating that is really difficult. Reading about polygraphs and security cameras and asking her to have her boss vouch for her has me concerned.

It sounds like she is trying to be transparent and wants to rebuild your trust. The question really is if you're going to be able to trust her again, and I know it's a hard thing to do. But for this to work, you have to trust her. Actually trust her. Polygraphs can be unreliable, but the bigger issue is what it says about your trust level. Say she passes the polygraph. Great. But life goes on. Are you going to want another one in a month if something happens?

Rebuilding trust is a long road, but if it's going to happen it's got to happen without polygraphs and cameras. Just my 2 cents.

Hi Niall,

Something in me doesn�t want to spy and snoop. I want HER to be the one to tell me or show me to a point I am satisfied. I also don�t want to take her back too quickly. I weigh what you say against that. I appreciate the response. I think maybe because I want to move past this I am accepting the thought of the polygraph to move forward but I don�t feel good about that. Need to be logical and not going by these feelings.

Originally Posted by Adam04

Need to be logical and not going by these feelings.

BINGO!

Polygraph seems over the top. Either yall can work to restore the trust or you can't IMO.

I think your friend zone comment to her was just a reflection of your fear. Wash it away...

I am seeing so much positivity, now don't be afraid to be yourself.

Just release all pressure Adam. Relax, avoid mind reading. Stand for yourself.

You need time and patience. And you know that.

Keep doing what works.

Adam,

I agree with neff, relax and take it one day at a time. No expectations.

Re male or female marriage counselors. I honestly don't think it matters. What matters is that you both want the same outcome and are willing to do the necessary work to get there. That she is willing to go, in fact, she is the one that wants to go shows that she is, at least right now, committed to trying. There are no guarantees. MC [censored]. It is opening up a wound and then digging around in it with a dirty old stick. It will hurt. But I think, if you are both willing to stick it out (pun intended), it will be worth it in the end.

Originally Posted by Adam04

What are your thoughts on her taking the polygraph? I have a place and questions already.

I think trust goes deeper than this. If you don't trust her, then her passing the test isn't going to gain that trust back. You will just google 'how to fool a polygraph test' and find one or two obscure examples where someone, somewhere successfully fooled the test, and then you're right back where you started. You see, at first, trust is a choice. You chose to trust someone and, yes, initially it is fragile and easily broken. You will look for signs that she is breaking that trust, but over time, and with consistency, it becomes something you don't even think about anymore. One day at a time. Eventually, hopefully, it is just something that is, like breathing, or loving your children. It is no longer a choice, it is just something you know is true.

I do agree with access to phones and computers. It would have to go both ways. You cannot expect her to do something you are not willing to do yourself.

Strangely, I guess full transparency would be letting her know what you have written here. That's a tricky one. I am not sure I would want my H to know what I have shared with virtual strangers. My truth is not his truth, right?

I guess my question is, how much do you want to know about what she has said and done whilst she was in her fog ... because MC is about letting all that stuff out.

Are you ready for it?

Thanks everyone for chiming in.

The poly is a no go. I don't think it will be coming from a place of strength or that it will help in the long run. It can come across as controlling. I don't want to force her to take it to try and catch her in a lie. Even if she willingly takes it, I don't feel right about it. It'll show the level I would go to and in the long run I think there are better ways than that.

I do want to trust her. My issue I think is that I am afraid I will be too trusting of her too easily without her gaining back that trust.

In DR I read that if the WAS no longer feels like they want to D we could discuss our needs, like addressing the infidelity. Since she has not been forthcoming and still denies, I don't think MC will be a start.

When I mentioned counseling, I was referring to individual for both of us. I don't think MC is right for now. if W did take a polygraph and passed, I think the focus would quickly be removed from her doing the necessary work to me and how I was blaming her. She'd still need to do the work.

Steve, I try to ask myself the questions like will this help or hurt me and am I coming from a place of strength. I do try to think logically. It's hard sometimes with feelings in the way so I can imagine how the WAS feels. I see many parallels.

ovrrnbw, the pats on the back I laugh at. She did it again today after meeting me and the boys up for dinner. I tapped her on the back the same way and we both sorta just laughed. I'm not sure if we can both keep our composure when it comes to the physical aspect of what we have at the moment. It will be a weakness of mine I may need to overcome. She said she is getting the bed in tomorrow and was washing the sheets tonight so I've said some things in reference to tomorrow night.

FS and nef, I agree to taking it one day at a time and to have patience. I need it. W is slowly coming out of that fog I think. So I think and I may be jumping the gun here that I may need to find out what I should be doing next to plan ahead. We're a long way from recon. But I am not sure if I need to do the full LRT as she no longer says she wants to D. She wants to work on the R and rebuild trust. So its like limbo again but are there any new rules or the same ones at this point? In DR it says to let the WAS know what we want/need. I don't think W will address the need to confront the infidelity. I hope when she goes to counseling and over time she will see something in me where she feels safe enough to tell me the truth.

FS, I am ready for the truth. I want to rebuild and put a lot of this in the past. I have to let go of wanting and of expecting. I am trying to enjoy the days as they come.

It feels a little conflicting. We distance so they don't run and when they come to us, we keep that distance so they don't cake eat.

As for full transparency... I still have all my messages of the women I've texted and W has been free to check my phone. I did change my password because of this site though. She does not get to see this. She is more than welcomed to go through any of my texts freely. Always have. I haven't deleted anything.

W and I used to share passwords to our accounts from emails to anything else online. I do want to restore that level of trust where she can go into my yahoo mail if she needed something like a financial doc or I could go into hers for the like. Same for amazon accounts. paypals. etc. The camera on the house. The deal with that is if I plan to move back in, then yeah I too would be using the app to monitor the traffic of people.

Adam, check into Retrouvaille. I think it would be an incredible experience for both of you and would pave the way to a recon with vastly improved communication.

Remember your job is to keep the way home paved and smooth. You don't want to rush back into anything, and you do want to make her do some work, but be careful about setting up roadblocks on that road home.

So you know I've been here a while. Even though most LBS's here think the success rate is low, there actually are quite a few recon stories. What you're describing about your W sounds like a real, legitimate recon interest on her part, very similar to the beginning of many other recons that have happened. Of course you are skeptical but your first step is this- believe it's real.

Happy to hear you decided no on the polygraph and I think for the right reasons. It seemed like you were going to do it when you talked about logic vs. feelings and seemed to be saying the polygraph made sense logically but your feeling was not to do it. To me it made sense more emotionally as some concrete step to get some kind of answer, but not logically since it's not really lasting reassurance like you want..

I had same "friend zone taps" experience, I think around my wife's birthday. Didn't say anything but I've been around enough women to know that's a kind of nervous defensive thing.

AS, It is taking some time to believe it's real. You are right, I am skeptical and it can create these road blocks.

In the last two weeks I have been over at the house. She first said I could come over and we take it slow day by day and then she said she'd like me over every day, which led to some small talk about us being together, our home, our bedroom. Everything US. She said she will make more room in the closet for my cloths which she requested I bring over to sleep over and go to work.

I look back since April and her tune has changed and she has appeared to do a lot of 180s on what she is saying and doing. I remember Sandi initially posting that W would need to stop acting a certain way and acting another. I hadn't gone back to the list of things to write them off but there is enough W has done to get a general vibe that she is out of the fog and very much wiling to work on the MR.

I showed her something online about Retrouvaille and she is on board to go. She showed some concern about the religious part because she didn't want to feel judged by Christians for not being a devout Catholic. She kept reading and later felt at ease.

Niall, I don't know how good these lie detector tests are or how easy it is to cheat them. I do know one person who has managed to pass it by lying so it can be done through some type of pain management. As for if she would do all that, I am not sure. The logical vs emotional. I also think as you did, emotionally it would make sense to satisfy this need to know. Logically thinking in the long run if I want to be with her and build this trust, I need to keep the road paved smooth. Not saying she gets an out of jail free card but right now she is doing a few things in an effort to be transparent and she is willing to go to counseling and she wants me to be with her and work things out. We both know we still have issues.

W has said she wants to work the marriage out and go to counseling. W will get the medical records for her birth control pills she is taking to reduce the cyst she has. She said she has put the find me app back on. She has given me her code to the phone and gave me the phone to install the camera app to the house on her phone and also on mine. She had all her passwords up to all the apps and emails and didn't mind me looking or knowing them. She communicates more her daily and weekly schedule. She said her work has a baseball game she was invited to and asked me if I wanted her not to go. I told her going or not going, I don't think that builds trust but I do appreciate her asking me about how I felt about it. I told her she could go and if she was concerned about how I felt, she would figure something out. I told her if she wanted to cheat on me no matter what I did right or try to prevent, she would cheat on me. I told her I cant or don't want to live my life like that, looking to try and catch her cheating or lying to me. I did say it was important to have safeguards in place and we work to strengthen our marriage so that moments of weakness aren't exploited so my focus is to be better.

My W told me what helped her change her mind was seeing how serious I was about changing and she realized I must have been getting some help. I think part of it too was seeing my life going on without her and me and the boys were fine. Along with that was my attitude. I didn't let it get me down around her or other people. Not around her family and siblings. My Sister in law was saying she was there for me and asked about us, her sister and me. She was saying she'd always be there for the kids to help. My head space with them wasn't running for support. It was to say I'm okay with whatever happens to us. I love her sister but I'm not going to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and I'm not going to try and force anything on anyone. The few times I did talk to the in laws, it was express life was going on and its good. It wasn't about saying negative things about the W or trying to get them to take sides. My W later said her sister and the brother in law talked to her and asked that I not get mad at the BIL. I don't recall when, but she asked me , so you love me enough to let me go, is that what you are doing? I didn't give her a direct answer as something else came up but in that moment I think she got the point.

I haven't been on the ipad or computer much at the house to journal. I'm taking walks with the kids, out in the streets with them in the evening times. Enjoying a lot more artwork with my youngest boy. Things have been busy.

W has said a couple of times she loves me but this was out of old habits like right after doing something. We tried to take it slow but after 2 nights of sleeping in the same bed in the master bed room, she initiated the physical contact and its been a green light ever since. We've been more intimate. We both have been enjoying our time together. Did I mention she no longer reads those romance novels? More of that focus is in the bedroom. We do tell each other we love things about each other.

My feelings are still guarded and I keep thinking W hasn't "come clean" about the past and I'm wondering if I am making a mistake to move forward the way I am. When W told me about the baseball game she got invited to, she later didn't go because the client didn't get their way with something and made a douche move to her bosses and she was so upset. I was there to validate and support. That same day I had problems at work and pushed those feelings aside to be there for my W. After that, W said she was going to bed and wanted to unwind so she was on the phone looking at Instagram following celeb stories. We are sharing moments together looking through those things together and laughing. that night I had to leave the house though to get some fresh air. I came to the apartment for a while to give some space. We later talked about it and she asked if I was alright and I said I was just giving us some space.

Also shortly after W told me about the baseball game which she didn't go to because she couldn't stand dealing with the client who she felt made a douche move to go above her, W told me she got invited to the lake house of her female boss along with a couple of other ladies from work. She wasn't sure if she wanted to go or not.

Then last night she gets a text like at 12am. I was starting to fall asleep at this time until it came in and I woke up. She said she would show me the text of who it was and that it was her boss being up and doing something. I told her I couldn't sleep anymore and I was going to go driving and she showed me the text. I told her I didn't have an issue with that. She asked what it was and I told her it wasn't really about that but now that I know her boss is asking her to the lake house and sending her texts late at night, she cant tell me her boss is just her boss and not a close friend. I sad it was hard for me not to see this person vouching for her friend whose marriage was on the rocks.

Am I crazy for taking her back too easily? MY W said she knows its tough and still swears she hasn't cheated on me. I feel there is more that she hasn't said.

Her mom is now staying over at the house starting this weekend. This is W's week with the boys. I am not sure if next week I should return to my apartment with the boys and do a hard reset. This morning we went to church together for the first time in a long, long while.

There were a few times throughout the weeks she would do a sh1t test like saying there was a faster route or alternate route to go somewhere, I'd smile and look at her and thank her for the info and keep driving my way or tell her I preferred to look at the beautiful trees or scenery. I noticed the way I handle those are usually with some type of humor and she would laugh. laughing a lot more and being happy.

Seems like rambling trying to put everything down and making sense of the things unfolding. Need advice if I should proceed with caution and still have no expectations or if its okay if she is willing to make some commitment and not doing this to temp check.

Originally Posted by Adam04

I showed her something online about Retrouvaille and she is on board to go. She showed some concern about the religious part because she didn't want to feel judged by Christians for not being a devout Catholic. She kept reading and later felt at ease.

Great! My XW is Catholic but I am not. Not once did I feel the least bit uncomfortable about not being Catholic. The program is hosted by the Catholic Church and there is some praying involved but the focus is on communication skills and not religion.

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W has said she wants to work the marriage out and go to counseling. W will get the medical records for her birth control pills she is taking to reduce the cyst she has. She said she has put the find me app back on. She has given me her code to the phone and gave me the phone to install the camera app to the house on her phone and also on mine. She had all her passwords up to all the apps and emails and didn't mind me looking or knowing them. She communicates more her daily and weekly schedule.

These are really, really good signs Adam! This is very consistent with the behavior of someone that has turned around and is all-in on making it work.

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My W told me what helped her change her mind was seeing how serious I was about changing and she realized I must have been getting some help. I think part of it too was seeing my life going on without her and me and the boys were fine. Along with that was my attitude. I didn't let it get me down around her or other people. Not around her family and siblings. My Sister in law was saying she was there for me and asked about us, her sister and me. She was saying she'd always be there for the kids to help. My head space with them wasn't running for support. It was to say I'm okay with whatever happens to us. I love her sister but I'm not going to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and I'm not going to try and force anything on anyone. The few times I did talk to the in laws, it was express life was going on and its good. It wasn't about saying negative things about the W or trying to get them to take sides.

Awesome, you're describing model DB'ing right there

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W has said a couple of times she loves me but this was out of old habits like right after doing something. We tried to take it slow but after 2 nights of sleeping in the same bed in the master bed room, she initiated the physical contact and its been a green light ever since. We've been more intimate. We both have been enjoying our time together. Did I mention she no longer reads those romance novels? More of that focus is in the bedroom. We do tell each other we love things about each other.

Fantastic!

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My feelings are still guarded and I keep thinking W hasn't "come clean" about the past and I'm wondering if I am making a mistake to move forward the way I am.

Totally normal to feel that way, Steve did as well and I think still struggles with it a little.

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Am I crazy for taking her back too easily? MY W said she knows its tough and still swears she hasn't cheated on me. I feel there is more that she hasn't said.

Look at it as a work-in-progress. Go to Retro, that will help a lot. If you stick with it and work on the exercises together you'll both have much better insight into what the other is thinking and feeling.

Thanks for checking in on my thread Adam. Just wanted to offer my encouragement for you as well.

Hey Adam - just catching up.

Looks like things are going well for you. Keep.it up, it's always great to see positive signs.

journaling

Tried to do this since Fathers Day several times. The internet ate my words up a couple times. Other times I felt like I had a mental block in trying to express what I had been feeling. Like I'm still trying to make sense of it all. Then the opportunities to have some down time are fewer these days.

This year will be 15 married, 25 years together, and in 2 months it will be 1 year from BD.

If you would have asked me 10 years ago if I ever thought I would get BD'd, I would have naively said no. And post BD, if you would have asked me if I ever thought I would be here, I would have naively said no.

So where is here? Continuing from the last update, W and I are what I consider progressing. I say that very loosely. It's been a couple weeks since last update and W has asked me to move in to the new house and one night she was moving clothes from one side of the closet to the other and I happened to walk in and I asked why all the moving. She said it was for me, and I told her she didn't have to do all that moving that night and she replied without hesitation that she didn't mind doing it and that she loved me. We both paused and she gave this smile like okay, this is it. It's real. So ever since, she has been able to tell me she loves me again when we sleep, wake up, sometimes random times throughout the day.

With W mother over for the summer to help watch the boys, W and I both wake up super early in the morning to go work out at the gym at our work. I'm up by 4am, workout, work, get home, and we eat, spend time with the boys and make effort to spend time together. Couple days ago, we went on a date night. Both our boys spent a night at their cousins. After date night and a few drinks we headed home and crashed early. In the past, I would have expected sex from something like this and I was good with the way things turned out. There have been so many moments, I could have expected something and not voiced it or I could have acted a certain way from the past but I didn't. I don't. I haven't purposefully written a list but its a pretty lengthy one on how I changed. I notice when I am in the moment. If she says something that could have sparked a different reaction out of me, I am patient and cool headed. I have been listening to a lot of John Gottman and not only controlling emotions but controlling physiology is important as well. So I had been working on emotional control , controlling those flare ups, impulses etc from BD. I am a work in progress on both emotional control and the physical.

When I want something and if its that important to me, I talk to W about it and I encourage her to do the same so that we don't harbor ill feelings or become passive aggressive. W has also said when I moved in, she noticed I placed my shoes on top of the dresser once or twice and she didn't say anything at first but then told me it bothers her because its shoes and they could have anything on the bottom of them. I have no idea why I placed by shoes on the dresser except that sometimes I take my workout shoes out of my gym back and place them on the dresser. I could see her point. Because I care about what she has to say I cleared all my mess. She is a neat freak and I am the slob. She says she didn't make a stinker about it because she has seen me change in so many ways and she notices how I am with other parts of the house. We do laundry together, we split our fair share of the house work and also the 50/50 split helped us continue that schedule while we are both at home. One week I help the boys with the bath or put them to bed and the other week she does it. Some nights if I am tired she will or if she is tired I will.

W and I haven't scheduled Retro. She is willing to do MC. Her Medical Records did come in but they weren't full records and her ovarian cyst was from 2017. Along with her breast cysts. At the time I must have been unaware or not in tuned with what was going on with her. These records weren't full records and only showed that she had been taking meds to control the size of it. I told her I know she loved me and it was important for me to see the medical records where it showed the doctor prescribed the BCP initially as treatment. She said she was a little disappointed that what they sent her wasn't good enough but she would get me the full records and she would tell them what she needed. Last week she said she left a second message with the office, which she had to do with the first set. So there is some effort she is willing to make. She doesn't know it, but the fact that she is doing this is the sign I wanted to see and not so much what is on the initial record. I could tell her it would be unnecessary, but since its in motion, I will let it play out.

W and I do have or conflicts. There have been a couple but nothing big. I mention this because I don't want people to think that because it seems like we are working on the relationship that its conflict free. On the contrary. It's how we approach one another and the willingness to listen, validate, and try to resolve the issue. I don't approach her saying things are her fault. If there is something that bothers me, I express how I feel with the I feel this way when this happens. We try not to use the words always or never. She catches herself sometimes saying that and backtracks and says that's unfair and is not what she meant to say so she is working on some parts of her.

As for intimacy, its steady. I don't want to get too graphic or give too much info but sex is good. Sorry in advance if too graphic... Sex ranges from a few times a day to few times a week. She sometimes initiate and I mostly do. I make sure she is satisfied first if not several times. Sometimes if I ask , she'd be willing and we would have a quicky. Other times it could be an hour to hour and half. When its like that, I don't know what is wrong with me. Its like my mind shuts down and we're just having sex. It was like that a few times and I started to trip out where we could have sex for an hour and she would get hers and I wouldn't be able to. Like there is a mental block. There is something psychological behind it and it doesn't happen all the time. I'd stop and we continue later and that's when I'd be good.

W and I aren't on the same wavelength yet with reading or watching self help stuff. We had a discussion on that and she said she is open to both of us watching something together but wants to check the self help stuff on her own time. She said she felt pressure from me when I asked her if she had done any of that. She said she will in her own time and she didn't want to do anything because I was trying to force her into it especially with self help because that infers something, like I'm trying to point out her faults to fix. I expressed that wasn't what I intended because with Retrovaille I heard that we would go back for exercises and I wanted to know if she would be on board with wanting to do the home work. This she said she would. So I think overall we are trying to hear and understand each other better. I also am working on being patient.

Since Mother In law is living with us, we are going to church every Sunday now. W holds my hands a lot on the drive and in church. We are both happy to go and our boys are happy, although my youngest one says he gets bored and doesn't understand what is going on.

We talked about the apartment. She wants me to break the lease but I said I wasn't sure. She said why not give it 6 months. She says she knows what she wants and that its us as a family and she knows it will be tough and rough but she is committed to making it work. I told her I want to be patient, hence keeping the apartment. I am actually at the apartment now where my PC is. I leave and go out every now and then. Sometimes coming to check the apartment or clean it up and head back or go out to the mall here.

The other night my oldest son wanted to link a Microsoft account to hers and I helped do that and set up everything on her phone because she didn't know how. Again I had the list of her passwords and apps. She not once hovered or was keeping tabs on me to checking her phone. The Microsoft account she has was also for skype. I don't purposefully go through her phone but if its something like this, I would skim the info or see if anything was just odd and I get no red flags.

W and I also communicate via texts more daily now. I am trying to build that emotional road map with her by letting her know I am thinking of her. I am asking how her day went. If she needs anything. She texts me in the mornings asking about me. She thanks me for the talks we had. She didn't go to the lake house with her boss and said she didn't go because of me. She knew I didn't care if she went but they did a half day at her boss's house in town with the ladies from work. W expressed that when I listened to her unloading about work, it was very important to her and she really appreciated it. She said it was really a big thing for her.

My brother in law also works out at the same gym my W does also early in the mornings so she would send pix of him or if he comes visit he would say he saw her. He is also the head IT guy at her company and she has two sisters working with her who knows we are trying to recon.

The guy who she used to text a lot at work, they still communicate when there are issues. Sometimes by phone and I noticed she does talk to different people at different terminals pertaining to her work. When this guy's name came up on the phone she looked at me and said sorry. She knows I don't like what happened in the past with not knowing or feeling like something could be going on that's fishy with him or anyone. She said sorry, its work and took it and they spoke to resolve an issue. I got no red flags from her behavior or from listening to how he spoke to her. Everything and every call she has been right next to me to take when dealing with emergency issues from work. no red flags.

I know I am not out of the woods yet. I don't proclaim it and am taking it one day at a time.

One last thing, her boss's H recently said he wanted a Divorce and bomb dropped the boss. So W is seeing what its like with what her boss is going through.

I think I covered most of what has been going on. I'm just another average guy trying to live the best he can and live right, there is no magic bullet to it. There are no guarantees. If W was to BD me again tomorrow, I'd be alright this time around. I live in the moment. I embrace all my emotions and don't let any one get me to acting emotional or crazy. We as men have to be stable and in control of our emotions. I couldn't tell you what caused my W want to come back to work on the marriage. It could have been several things lined up or everything had to line up. And still, there are no guarantees...

I tried to do the work, read and soak in practices, stand my ground, not be a pushover to her, squelch that disrespect, be upbeat and be a great father to my kids. Sometimes none of this matters to them.

I think its too soon, but I brought it up to my W that maybe we should discuss where we are at with our children because the last talk was about D. Now she wants to reconcile, do I remain patient and let things play out the way they do for a while or do we have another talk with the kids so they aren't confused? They love both of us working it out as a family.

Time to go have dinner with the family.

Please keep the posts coming. I feel like this could be a pivotal time. I've made the decision to move forward and try to be the best me possible but if you think I am going too fast or should be doing something differently, feel free to chime in.

Adam,

Give it time. When she is sure, she will tell you she wants to sit down with kids and update them. Until then, it may be too much pressure.

I don't think you're moving too fast. Have you talked to friends or clergy in real life? What do they say?

Congratulations Adam. It sounds like you are doing a great job. You are an inspiration to me. You give me hope.

Updating,

Ovrrnbw, patience feels like one of those things where no matter how much you practice or have, you will need more of and I am always trying to be more patient. I haven�t spoken to anyone else really about my sitch other than coming here. No clergy. I am not Catholic and haven�t converted over. Thought has crossed my mind to convert since we go every Sunday now.

D, thank you ... Let me say that this is an uphill battle with an unknown outcome. All I can do is try to be the best me day by day trying to be a good person and ultimately her decision to come back is her own.

So I have been away for a while trying to DB this thing. I been at the house living there. The apartment just sits there with some of my clothes and I�ve gone back and forth sometimes to get space and take care of bills etc. Where I last left off my W wanted me to move in and I did.

In June we took the kids to Legoland in California and my youngest son overcame his fear of flying. We were all so happy for him. The place was beautiful and we all had a great time.

W and I have said we enjoyed this last month being together. She said she likes being with me alone doing our thing. She said she is excited to plan for our anniversary in a few months. She said it was easier to talk to me about anything and she didn�t feel like she was on pins and needles or that I would judge her. We�ve gone on a couple of date nights. So everything seemed to be going okay. I was being patient and didn�t push for immediate marriage counseling. She doesn�t seem ready like taking the bull by the horns type ready doing the searching and basically doing the work. So I haven�t been controlling or forceful, I still have my guard up. W and I have slowly started to open up more about our feelings...

I did bring up to my W there was more to that day of BD than she admitted and I needed to get over that hurdle. So yesterday, she has a Snapchat coming in from a close friend when we were standing close together at a restaurant and she didn�t check it then on her watch, I turned around to do something and turned back and she was in Snapchat on her phone with another lady. She told me what the lady was doing and showed me a picture. I asked about the other person who is her friend and asked what did she send. She said she already looked at it and couldnt retrieve the picture because as you know, that�s how it works if it isn�t a story , I guess... I am not a SSM person. Later she noticed I was kinda quiet and asked me about it and if I was okay. I expressed to her at home that I felt like when the snapchat came in on the watch , that she waited to view it until later, which immediately made me think she was being secretive. She said she didn�t mean to be secretive. As she was leaving the room I asked for her phone passcode and she gave it to me so I decided to look at a couple of numbers. She left the room and later came back. She realized I had a copy of a phone record of the time she said she texted her other friend on BD to say our marriage is over. So I was matching the number she texted to the number of the lady friend on her phone directory and no match. The phone number wasn�t even in her phone so I called it in front of her and she asked me to hang up and she would tell me the truth...

It turns out day of BD she had lunch with a guy, a client who has been picking her up several times throughout a few months to go to lunch and ask for business which she said she gave. I asked questions on if there was an EA or PA and she denied that saying they no longer talk and it has always been about business. She said she knew it would look bad and panicked that day so covered up with the lie and she said she came close to telling me the truth several times but it didn�t happen. I packed up my clothes and said I was going to the apartment and told her I was disappointed that she kept this lie going on this long and I was hurt and angry that it was only when I was going to bust her in a lie that she decided to come clean and it wasn�t on her own free will. So I left and I told her I would need to think about this whole thing and do a reset with the kids with her this week and next week they be with me. I had her tell my older son what happened and she told him and said she was the reason why our family was breaking apart because she lied to daddy about being somewhere and she was with a guy.

A lot of thoughts were flooding in. Is the house my home, am I doing the right thing or am I being punitive? It�s hard to tell sometimes. Later that night when I was in the apartment we talked more on the phone.

A few take aways was she said she finally felt good to get it off her chest because she felt guilty for lying to me but she was scared of what I would do. I hated the way I found out and it feels like I can not trust her with anything but I love her and think I make it too easy to forgive her. She is sad and angry at herself and has said she doesn�t know how we can bounce back from this because now I have a name and would always think she wanted out because of this guy

My W didn�t want me to unload my clothes to the new apartment. She also said she wasn�t sure what would happen with us mostly because she felt like I was using the kids and she didn�t want to see me get angry one week and say I�m taking the kids back to the apartment and the next week I am back at the house, she didn�t want to do that with the kids.

Was late last night and she didn�t want me back at the house that night because she didn�t like herself and she was feeling some sort of way at me about the kids, but I told her since she said this was OUR home and I had been there a month, I was going back that night and if she didn�t like it she could sleep in anther room. I told her I was not leaving to quit the family.

So I went home and slept in the MBR next to my wife and we woke up and she laid in my arms. We got up and talked more. She knows she can�t reassure me that no EA or PA happened but she said she is relieved now to tell me what actually happened that day. She got ready to go to church and asked me to go. I went and she later said she was thankful I went to church because it meant a lot to go as a family, where we could work this out as a family.

And here I am...

Any advice is appreciated.

I don�t know if I mentioned it above but I asked my W about the find me app and she said when she tried to turn it on there was an error but she will try again. Told her with all this going on it�s a little disappointing. Also I asked her to write a no contact letter to this guy and do a no contact call. Told her to google it. She said she will do it but she hasn�t communicate with this guy in a long while. Would the no contact letter/ call be best in this scenario ?

I am thinking about going thru the call logs to confirm she hasn�t contacted or been contacted by his number after that day or from any number from his company that�s on his LinkedIn account.

If I find something and we go thru this again with her lying, do I go back to the apartment and resume the 50/50 split or do I stay in the MBR in the new house?

Btw, we are together a lot more. On weekdays, we text throughout the day. She tells me her work schedule and if she will be out to lunch and with who. She said like a week or two ago she was meeting with two people from another company. A lot of the current stuff, there aren�t red flags except how she is handling the past up to BD.

Am I making this too easy for her and what could I be doing differently? Always open to advice. Thanks again.

My opinion is that if you want to be married to your wife, you have to trust her.

Originally Posted by Adam04

Adam,

IMO, I think your wife is with holding some of her actions. She might be ashamed or scared of the consequences, but she isn't telling you everything.

I don't know your W, but she seems to have some morality about herself, so she will not be upfront with the truth, because it's might be too embarrassing. But, IMO she would not just hide if she was just going too lunch with a guy. Believe half of what they say, don't forget.

I will give you my wife scenario.

So, I was BD at the beginning of July. My wife planned a trip to D.C at the end of July. Her sister was up there visiting friends. The OM lived up there as well. Before she left for that trip she had all the signs of being WW, I asked was she going up there to see him, she said NO. She went on the trip and came back and I asked did she see him, she told me no. She was adamant. Then in the middle of August she went on a Momcation up in Austin, it's what she called it, but it was a Meetup with the OM. The OM came down to where we lived for over a week and they met up all over the place. I didn't find out the truth until the end of August.

One night we were sitting in our bedroom together and her messenger went off, I got into her phone and there it was, all the proof and lies uncovered.

Then about 3 weeks later we were starting to kind of recon, she wanted me around, was calling me more, asking to watch movies and TV shows with me. One night we were watching a movie, and at this point she told me she was done talking to him, I got into her phone again, more lies. I had enough, it was around 3 in the morning. I woke her a$$ up, told her pack her things and get the f out. I had to find direct truth for her to be honest in both cases.

Then after we started to recon, I told her to be honest about what they did, she told me half of the things. I asked her specifics and she lied to me again. I had already had the proof. I presented it too her and I told her I'm tired of your lying, I can't take this. But the point being. Without specifics, she wasn't giving up the info.

Your W seems to be with holding info. And only you finding the proof will get that info out of her.

I will tell you, some of the things, I seen has caused a lot of issues with our recon. I flood with thoughts and I can't stand to be around her. I have walked out on her a few times because of them. I have also sat her down and we agreed if I cant get pass them, we will have to move on.

So, if you can live with the info you already have been presented, please move pass it, tell her you need complete transparency, and work on forgiveness. It has been a constant struggle for me
I wish, I didn't Snoop as hard as I did sometimes. But, life keeps moving forward.

Onward and upward.

Joejoe,

Thank you so much for sharing your story here. You nailed it with the way my wife is. She is too ashamed unless confronted with the truths. You are right she is withholding but to what degree I don�t know. We had a talk this evening about that timeframe and I told her if I Checked the phone logs against what she told me with his number what would I find and she said they had been talking shortly after like day after and a couple more times and that was it and it�s been near a year. What she told me and her mannerisms, the look, it�s a bit different from the other times when I sensed the lying. I know I can�t go on intuition alone but something in me believes what she said this time around. She said she will write the letter and make the no contact call if that�s what she needs to do. Although we won�t know where to send the letter. And it�s not a confirmed Affair. It could have been anyone or many people.

W said when I got BD, she was unhappy and looking for a way out but it wasn�t to be with a guy. She was unhappy for a while and she admitted that acceptIng a ride from a guy for lunch was sending the wrong signals. She said she is ashamed that I busted her for lying that day and it jaded what she said could have been a friendship at best but now they don�t communicate and when they did she said they left it to only business.

W told me today she was happy for me when she saw me making positive changes for myself and she liked the new me. I was a 350 pound guy who blew up in weight and I had medical problems. She admitted today that last year she spoke to her sister about her concern of losing me if I was to die. She had talked to me abandonment it my weight and asked me to get a handle because of my swollen legs and the high blood pressure and other medical issues and she said I didn�t care and I didn�t. There were some points I was unhappy and wanted to die. This Is the reality she shared with me. She said her sister told her what if I didn�t die and I had a heart stack, I could be paralyzed forever and be someone she may have to take care of and she remembers this is what also made her change her mind. She said she isn�t proud but was scared and angry that I didn�t care and she couldn�t see that life of taking care of someone who didn�t care about himself. I know it�s not an excuse.

I think tonight I felt good like this was a step in the right direction and could be just enough for me to try and move on from. After we talked about the past i asked her now what would be different. We talked about marital boundaries and she said she knows not to accept rides from any guys and if she could help it , someone else would be with her during these lunches.

There have been some times she wanted to make sure I was in a good place like one night when a text came in late I said something I think it was that I couldn�t sleep and she half asleep made sure I was okay. She showed me the text and it was of the sister in law up with the newborn baby sending texts and Snapchats since the baby was up.

A few times going through the phone and apps I didn�t find anything suspicious.

Wife also wants me to break the lease and move in but says she understands if I still need my space to keep the apartment.

For the no contact call or letter, does it make sense to use for this guy?

Tonight with my wife trying to explain the past and her feelings to me .... My W said she felt like she hit rock bottom when she was in the house alone and she no longer had her family. She said when we were in house seperated she still felt like I was still there. It kind of shocked me when she said she felt like hitting rock bottom. This person now I talk to, she is open to listen, she is concerned about what I say, she has been willing to do what I ask. She is still scared though of what I would and could do.

I know I can move on past this. I wonder if there is more I should try to find out or more that I need to wait for, to be more patient with not breaking the apartment lease with more to see from her.

I do love her enough to let her go, and I do love her and can forgive. Where I am at in these stages up to recon that I am not sure.

Adam,

The no contact letter is up too you. If you believe what you W is telling you, then move on. You don't have to follow every step verbatim. So, IMO, I would have my W write one and have it saved as an draft in an email. But I don't think not writing one would hurt. Because there's any contact to stop from happening.

My W told me she hit rock bottom, as well. That she was at the lowest she ever felt in her life. That, it wasn't about the OM, it could of been anybody, but he was familiar, and made her have feelings again. I lost alot of weight as well, but you got me beat homey. Great job on getting your health in order.

I started to let my W go before, I found this forum, well, I told her those words, after finding this forum, and listening to the advice on here, my W started to take notice. She told me she was getting jealous. She even told me the OM was getting upset with her because she kept talking about me. Funny how that works. After recon, I have seen my W break down in a uncontrollable panic attack, because of her choices and decisions. You'll process has just started. It will be some great days and some not so great days stay patient. Don't rush, the process. If you are not ready to break the lease, then don't, but don't use having the apartment as a threat or scared tactic. The moment you truly decide to forgive her, then the past belongs in the past.

I read a quote one day, that helped me process in my sitch, it goes, "forgiveness is the process of giving up the ability the change the past". We can't go back, and do anything different so dwelling and living in there only slows things down and hurt the healing process.

Onward and upward

Adam, I think your reaction to her disclosure of the lie was appropriate. And I think you are right to be cautious, because like Joe pointed out usually when a WAS gets caught in a lie they will tell half-truths to "make peace" while keeping even more lies deeply buried. Your number 1 problem is going to be learning to trust her again, and she has to EARN that trust from you, not just expect it to happen. I think we talked about Retrouvaille before, I can't remember if you said you were considering it or not but it gives you some really great communication skills. It will help both of you to open up in ways you never thought possible, it could be just what you both need.

Great work Adam. Truly.

Take it from someone on the other side of things, where it's disintegrating into fragments due to W's decisions.

I see courage in and take comfort from your posts, you really are an inspiration for those of us doing the hard work to change.

Strength to you...!

Joejoe, my wife had looked at info on writing the no contact letter yesterday. The reasons why, the purpose, the details. This wasn�t in front of me but it was up on her phone and search bar.

AS, yes retrouvaille is something wife has agreed to. She had agreed to,but I think this weekend and yesterday, last night was very damaging to the progress. I will try to explain.

My wife has said she was willing to take this lie detector test to put the cheating to rest but I said no a couple of times. I think we can rebuild trust without it. This would also pose a problem because I told her I thought D was off the table and we were all in to making this work. I asked her what if she did pass but more importantly what would happen if she didn�t. It would be a very awkward position because what would be the consequence for her lying or failing. And speaking of awkward , it has gotten there quickly.

Sunday night we were in a good spot. She said she was angry at me for bringing the boys into it. I validated and said I could see why she could be angry. I thought my older son deserved to know. I asked him if he needed to know and between him and me he said yes. Then when W and I was discussing it she said he told her he didn�t need to know so she thought it was me using him. I told her it wasn�t but I don�t think she believes me.

Right after she told me about what happened with this guy I had to take my boys to the barbers so they heard some of our discussion , which I tried to address with them. Because she wasn�t in the car I think she feels I was trying to put the blame on her and make her the villain in front of the boys when that�s not what I was doing. This was early Saturday. I did say that what happened was between mommy and daddy and we had an issue with not telling the truths so I took this as an opportunity to stress the importance of not lying.

So Monday morning she leaves to work, kisses me bye, and tells me she loves me as usual. I didn�t have a good sleep because of the freshness of finding out about this guy. She texts me in the morning while I�m at work and asks if I got any sleep and how my day was. This is where I thought I was going to be honest and tell her not so great and I was still dealing with what she told me. She said she was sorry. I dragged this convo on all day just talking about everything via text to us, the kids, recapping how she lied but swore she was with a larger group and her female friend before so what I thought was working to lean in trying to poke holes thru her story to see if she would come clean, it just made her how she is right now, hurt and angry.

W bday is today and in the texts she was adamant nothing happened emotionally or physically with this guy and she lied because I had already been accusing her of cheating and when she went out to lunch and I asked about her it was out of the blue and she thought I would accuse of her being with this guy. Like I was finding someone to blame for our problems and she didn�t know what I would do like go berserk and bring her down at work. W texted me to not do anything for her bday. No flowers nothin so I stopped that this morning. It flipped in a day. I believe I put too much pressure on her. I was talking about a transparency plan and going to retrovaille. All of which she said yes. I thought I was in control of my emotions and I was being vulnerable enough ... and no matter what we think we do right , it doesn�t always line up with their perceptions or beliefs.

Earlier during the weekend I had a huge dinner party for W birthday and it was a surprise. W enjoyed it. This was Friday. Saturday was when I got the �true story� that instead of her having lunch with her girlfriend and group it was two male clients. That�s when I had her tell my son, I left for the day and I came back that night. Went to church and tried to make amends Sunday and it just went right back into crazy mode via texts on Monday. She said this was draining and that she loves me and is trying but damn is it making her think she wants to from this. I told her several times before that if we come together and work on it, we would need to discuss finances again and this was serious because I am gambling living a very fragile lifestyle with the Boys in the apartment to splurging more because of the combined income. Well before I left to go back to the apartment I threw this in her face. I said I gave you so many outs to come clean about that day and you chose to keep it a secret. I told her about spending the money on the bday dinner and how extravagant it was. I sincerely regret that. I thought I was being practical but it sunk in later that this was for her so she took it more personally than me just saying this is extra I was spending and not so much this is extra I a, spending on -you- instead of saving for my kids. I felt like [censored] and I saw she did too.

Last night she asked me to leave the bed because she needed space. I told her I wasn�t leaving and I tried to talk to her and letting her know this was going to be hard and I wanted to listen to her to understand her side of it. She was tired and said she felt drained and defeated. She was still also bitter about the boys. She said she was upset when the little one told her Saturday night that daddy would still be here if you did not lie. I don�t know what more I could have done to shield them, teach them, and just keep them away from this. I believe she feels the same way also but we are on opposite ends and she is taking the blame for it and feels like crap.

One of the convo pieces with lunch with this guy was when I faced timed her that day, she went to the restroom and I asked her where her female friend was and she couldn�t get her. She went back to lunch for a few more hours and then came home. So in my texts to her Monday I said this was very Strange and didn�t add up and I wanted to know if there was more to this. So last night she said she could contact the guy and ask for a copy of the company expense report of his company has that for that day. She said her company has her scan in the actual receipts which usually has the date and time on it and this is what she could do. I said if you are going to contact him, you will need to do it in front of me. This got her nervous saying her work integrity would be on the line and anything related to work she is petrified could get her fired. Her work is everything and she is scared of anything wrong going on to lose her job. I offered a compromise to email him but to blind cc me But maybe I could have had her email from the laptop if she had it at home. Sometimes it�s at work.

Last night ended with her sleeping with the boys and it felt like it was going back to how it was with the in house separation. She said goodnight and that as transparency she said she was leavingher phone and watch in the room.

After she fell asleep upstairs I checked the phone and I didn�t see anything out of the ordinary except she saved a copy of a text I sent her on Saturday telling her she should tell our son what happened. In one of her family group texts all of Saturday texts were deleted but Sunday they picked up talking about what I had said and how it was wrong to bring the kids in and if she told me the truth and she feels so bad and I keep doggin her and can�t forgive her, then she can�t go on living like that.

She responded to them tha this is killing her because she doesn�t want to drag the kids thru this and she wishes I would understand and that this was too much for her. W has several family group texts at the top with her siblings joking and talking with the brothers. The text I read was only with the sisters and below all her work texts. I am not sure if she purposefully wanted me to read that but I am glad I did.

Oh and about the tracker find me app. I asked her to install that a while back and I asked her over the weekend if she had and she said she changed somethign and couldn�t get it to work. I thought she was kidding me, but I realized looking at her phone she changed her login to another email. This would seem strange at first but she did this because our 2 boys are on their iPads at home every day and their iPads halve her old email for FaceTime. So if I or Anyone FaceTime the boys she would get it on her phone too.

When she got up for work this morning I told her happy birthday and didn�t say much else. I also called the florist who was the call above her on the phone and I accidentally clicked her name fat fingered it and then I ended call immediately. Called the florist right after to cancel the delivery. She calls back and asks if I called. I decided to let her know I cancelled the flowers. That was something her sister in law shared with her when I asked for her company address. They were trying to see if I wanted to address since I am off today to go to her boss to talk about that day or to send flowers. Either way it was cringe worthy and I couldn�t believe how they saw me. I even told her and swore I wouldn�t sabotage her work and I was trying to save the marriage, I thought we both were.

I am pulling back. It seems like too much too fast. I couldn�t sleep last night. I think about her,this guy, it could be anyone and she even said that last night. She was because of the lie but that person could have been anyone and it would be the same, nothing happened. She said she knew I would have a problem and was looking to blame her so she lied and she regrets it. And the sad truth is that I was looking to place blame so this is hard for me.

I am pulling back and I will temporarily not mention anything about the guy, the R, recon, the letter. I am giving her a break. I looked at myself trying to see me thru her eyes and it�s so different. If what she says is true, her concern and love for the boys, to protect them from the harm I could cause, to protect herself from the harm I could cause at her work, and that she has been truthful to me she didn�t cheat but she did lie, and that it makes her feel defeated like I am still throwing it in her face, I feel she will walk out. Not only that... I feel there is pain , her pain. So I feel ashamed and apologetic but at the same time I need to stand tall and no be too emotional. I have been trying to go by what I think is the right thing to do to make this work, not in a selfish I want her/I need her , controlling, way. This last few days opening up about my emotions and showing her my doubts I think has scared her or made her really good at a front but I don�t think it is a front. I feel like I may need to tread lightly for a while. I told her I do believe I could trust her but it was a process. I can tell you she gets very emotional and fast and needs time to cool down to sort her feelings.

I have more time today to go into more detail I think of what transpired so apologies if a lot of this is overlapping.

I want to have another discussion with my wife to let her know I see it thru her eyes and i will work on the forgiveness and I also think I should just show her by not bringing it up for a while and letting her know I am not playing the blame game. I feel so bad because it seems that way. I don�t like this part of opening up and sharing because that focus does shift to me and sometimes it can sound a lot like me,me,me everything me. I also feel like I need to be careful not to pacify my W. She made a cokpmment like that, like she doesn�t want me to pacify her as we both are entitled to the way we feel and she understands my grieving process but at the same time I need to try and understand her side.

Going to end it here. There was a lot more I was feeling and some sort of doubt with W but nothing that comes to mind because my heart wants to believe her and forgive but my mind is slowly catching up, waiting for signs.

Oh this isn�t major but when it�s me and her, my W has said she doesn�t tell our business to her family like none of it through the months, but I know to believe nothing she says. So it looks like she came clean or they knew about this other guy and let us work it out. I don�t feel hurt by it because I know family rely on each other. It�s just that she feels like she has to lie to me for not getting their input because I tell her I am not speaking to people because of that very reason. And her siblings are here now so I will go out there and put on my best smile and GAL with my youngest boy who is awake. I asked if he wants to get mom a bday card and he said yes so that and Chuck E. Cheese here we come.

There are no guarantees. It�s hard work. I�ve told myself I am the one who okayed this shift from physical separation to starting recon and I am going to be patient and forgiving to both of us. Goodness did I make a lot of mistakes but that�s something I�m dealing with now.

Originally Posted by IronWill

Thank you IW but as you can see, we falter. I am human and so is she. I had started with this mentality of wanting both sides to understand each other and right now I will shift that focus off of me and onto her.

I will say her boss is still in so much pain and I misspoke once when I tried to explain the boss�s cheating husband and his role as the walk away to her when it came to the no contact letter. It�s like trying to find when and where it�s appropriate to help support them in getting the info to better understand this so we can have some tools to use if not a better understanding.

Originally Posted by Adam04

That's ok. I do too, and you are absolutely right, we are human. I can see now how far apart W and I are now and R seems like rainbows and unicorns at the moment for me/us.

Take a step back and breathe. Recon seems like it would be incredibly difficult - mostly because you both want it to work, and want the familiarity of what once was, but I would think so much has transpired in between that time that you have to take the small steps and inch forward one day at a time.

Quote

I will say her boss is still in so much pain and I misspoke once when I tried to explain the boss�s cheating husband and his role as the walk away to her when it came to the no contact letter. It�s like trying to find when and where it�s appropriate to help support them in getting the info to better understand this so we can have some tools to use if not a better understanding.

I haven't been up on the recent parts of your sit - mine has been falling apart quicker lately - but I see that you are committed to trying to work it out.

Keep strong, man - and take it one day at a time

Update.

W has come back to bed. We apologized and talked and she is now doing a 180. Last couple of days no ILY, only hugs in morning. We still text and have semi R talks. These talks are a bit painful but also a bit more honest I think. W said she just wants to work on her and doesn�t know where her head is. The other day she said she was going to seek professional help and tonight after she said she felt pressure from me she divulged she is seeing a counselor next week but didn�t want to tell me. She is saying she can�t make any promises about our future but knows she needs to work on herself first. She now is saying I am pressuring her, she feels like I am trying to control what she needs to do like when I made suggestions about steps to take for recon. She said she resents the transparency and thought it only meant looking through her phone if she was there too. So she has flipped hard. She is trying to figure out if she is doing this for the boys or us. I told her I will be patient and understanding and thanked her for being able to tell me her feelings. I asked why the change and she�s not sure. She said since she was living a lie she felt like she had to listen to the stuff I was saying because it was some type of punishment. She felt like I was lecturing her because I was already down this path to figuring it out and she didn�t need my help or suggestions.

She�s showing signs of flipping back to having one foot out the door but this person is willing to speak to a counselor for help and is still agreeing to visibility and looking thru her phone, going thru the call log from the past convo we had to see if this guy�s phone number would come up more than when she said it did. She even admitted she didn�t change her username for the boys to use her old email address for face time. She said she change it back when we were going thru the separation and doesn�t know how to change things back and still said it�s okay for me to help reset it so the find me app can work. She also said she looked into one of those other family sharing apps to track.

I told my W while I get she needs to do this on her own and I commended her for wanting to do the work, I also will not back down on what I needed in the marriage. I said I will be patient but I will not be in a sex starved marriage or another in house separation and I will stilll need her To be transparent. Surprisingly she said those things aren�t a problem, she has nothing to hide but she can not make a promise to me about the marriage until she works and focuses on her first. She said she needs pressure from me to stop. So here we are trying to communicate our needs. I told her I was trying to follow a process I thought she was on board with.

I told her I am not going to tolerate disrespect , the rebellion, and I understand she�s got a lot of resentment she has to deal with but that�s got to get worked on. She isn�t aligning her doing this for the marriage but she has commented that once she goes and if it helps maybe she can figure out why she felt like she had to lie to me all this time.

Although it sounds a bit dire and there is a high chance this doesn�t work out, I expressed

W said that d wasn�t even on the table when I made a comment about it. She just needs time to sort her mess out so maybe we can get back to being in a good place. I told her this is going to be tricky because with all the lies in the past I will be seeing if there is traction because I can�t have �no dialogue� with her on what�s going on, I told her I don�t sent her to try to pull the wool over my eyes saying she is working on it and 6 months pass and there is no forward process. She said that would be a long time and hopes it won�t be that long but at least let her go to the first one and see how it is.

This week I had been giving us some space. One of the days I went out to have dinner by myself and read. I told her I was out havin dinner by myself when she asked and I told her it was to give space and she said I didn�t need to. She went out with her sisters today and got home. We had a semi heavy convo of how she is feeling right now.

I am not taking it to heart thankfully because of this forum to believe nothing they say. I do feel it�s important to heed the signs.

I have heard It said here that the WAS rejects what we share with them so I was aware ahead of time this could and would happen. I have been hesitant to say we are reconning. I think we are steering in that direction but it�s a long way off and I am not out of the woods yet. I feel like I have to be confident in where we are, don�t let it get me emotional in front of her. I still need to stand my ground and not be afraid. That�s one thing I haven�t been is afraid to lose her.

Last week she said when she thought about divorce back almost a year ago she lost attraction for me but now she has it. She said she didn�t know what it was but she liked this new me with the changes. Tonight she said she feels like she needs to grow and make some changes and she can�t have me guiding or pushing her or she will resent me for trying to control her.

I don�t know , it�s going to be confusing and this looks like accepting them back too soon. I don�t want to be punitive and hard reset with taking the boys to the apartment. I already claimed that this is my house too but I still have the apartment on the side so I am not sure what that says. I hate to overthink anything too.

What do I need to consider or do at this stage?
This a false start or not necessarily?

I don�t know if she is saying I am smothering her with things to do so that she doesn�t have to do them. Maybe I just need to really be patient and allow her time to figure it out and then see what I feel by that time. I need to reread Sandis notes on having a good plan.

Hey Adam -

I don't know if this will help, but a lot of the resources here from Hearts Blessings have helped me to understand the different "stages" of MLC (if you believe in that).

It has given me more clarity on what the spouse in MLC shows when they are starting to exit the MLC tunnel as it's called and this sounds a little like what is going on in your sit.

Hope that helps a bit - stay strong, man

Hey Adam...been a while for me. I have been away for a while and have just skimmed your sitch. It looks like you are still in some sort of limbo as W tries to figure it out. I was told over and over again the limbo was more time for you to work on you.

I noticed I had all this time and when I found myself and was moving on with enjoying my life instead of wondering when W would come around she dropped out of her fog and came running....she realized at that point where she wanted to be.

Use this time for you...continue to make yourself a better dad, a better person.

Update:

I tend to make things long winded so will try to make it less so but no promises.

W said she feels like she has one foot out of the door but she isn�t looking at divorce. She said she has matters of the heart she needs to deal with for herself. She is seeing a therapist this Thursday and I told her no matter the outcome between us I support her decision to try and better herself.

At first I felt defeated like I lost, like all this was a sham. Then I got over it pretty quickly and I am not the angry bear I used to be or the person feeling victimized. I�m not 100% sure I have this figured out either. I�ve been trying to go at this with all the info I�ve gained and trying to do what�s right.

I think about going back to the apartment and what that would mean but it would come across as punitive so I am not doing it. I am taking my stance in the home and if it doesn�t work out she will need to divorce me there. Least this is how I see it for now unless there is something else major to consider.

I plan to take my kids out Friday and spend a night with a friend and his kids and take them out Saturday to go see Lion King. This past weekend W wanted to look for a matinee so we could warch it with the kids. I told my W my friend and I were planning to hang out over the weekend maybe Friday do some drinking and eating at his place and let the kids spend a night. Told her during a dinner and told her I woulda take the boys out to get them out her hair for a night and she could do whatever. She said something like she didn�t believe me and I laughed saying I didn�t think I had a tone or facial expression showing something other than just being straight faced and she said thank you.

Edit to add I was thinking of asking W she can join us if she wants.

So going back to transparency. I need help in this department and some clarity. She said she didn�t mind me changing her phone setting back to where the find me app can be turned back on and I�d have the password to her itunes login. She leaves her phone available for me to check and it has all 3 of her emails open on them.

I want to approach the right way. Does anyone have pointers because between now and the weekend I am thinking of saying something like this. I know this is a tough time for you and you nee time to figure things out but a non negotiable for me is full transparency so this means xxxxxxxxx. I need help with this part because how I see it it means access to phone at any time I request and also being able to check her location if she is out. Is there more or considering the timeframe of what�s going on, Is it best I be patient and bring this up later? Do I feel like she is doing something behind my back? I don�t think so and I would like to focus on trying to be more supportive at the same time making sure she knows I�m not placating to her because I am scared to lose her.

I have been thinking it may be best if we do get a divorce for several reasons but I don�t feel ready. I�ll see how this plays out and keep going with my life. I�ve been doing things by myself again , giving her space with the kids and i�m Planning to give her a break when I have the kids. We both deserve some breathing space and no I�m not worried about it she does do something. That�s on her and I�m good with my headspace on that.

Just looking for some guidance on the best way to approach or when to approach her on the full traparency and what that means for both of us. Main thing is where I want to be. I want to be patient, understanding, and confident showing her I accept where we are at and I guess for lack of better words I am not afraid to do the right thing.

Adam,

I am really sorry to read your recent update I thought for sure you were going to be a recon story to recommend to newbies. You sound like you have positive attitude either way.

On your question regarding transparency. IMO full transparency is for only when the WW has two feet in the door. If she has one foot out the door then it would seem to me to be more controlling.

Hi Adam,

I want to read more of your thread but it sounds like you and your wife have worked hard to stay married. It does seem like there are some situations where divorce ends up being the better option. I hope you can still avoid it, but it does seem you'll be in a good position to accept it if it needs to happen. Best wishes as you work through the next steps!

LH, it�s been kinda hard the last month with putting all these feelings into words. It�s been a swirl of emotions. I�m trying to balance all the feelings and letting them come and go. I would love to say don�t count me out just yet but I think my feelings are changing about my Wife. I really don�t want to be with someone who will always doubt the relationship and wonder if she could be happier without me.

Nicole, it�s been tough trying to be in the mood to blog for several reasons. Right now I feel confused. Hopefully I�ll get the help I need to figure it out. I�ll update and try not to make it too lengthy.

Since last update I went out to my friends house Friday night. Another close friend came with his woman from out of town. I invited my W and she went with me. So we had me and my friends of over 20 years and our families. Kids are all around the same ages. We ate and drank and laughed. We were up to 3 in the morning carrying on and talking about making plans all together to visit a nearby vineyard. That Saturday we watched Lion King. W wasn�t distant. We hugged and kissed.

This past weekend W and I took our two boys to the beach and we spent two days at a resort. Had fun on the beach all day and at the pool. So from the other weekend to now W slowly over time stopped initiating the kissing. She�ll initiate a hug before work.

A few takeaways is she says she doesn�t know if she can be happy. She feels pressure but doesn�t want to divorce. She wants to work on herself to be stronger and then maybe the marriage but she wants to go at her own pace. She has seen a counselor twice now. We�re still cordial, hugging and kissing sometimes but she said she is scared that if we got intimate we�re going to sweep things under the rug. We still go to church and hold hands. Sometimes we do talk about the R and I believe she is confused and I think I am giving her space by not trying to smother her when I am at the house or by trying to engage in.

I am stil mindful of no pressure, DB, being self differentiated. It�s while being back at the house. On top of this I have to question my stance if I am coming from a place where I am showing respect and command respect back. I don�t want to appease her or placate. I�ve had my fair share of disagreements with her.

I�ve had severe headaches in the last couple weeks. I�ve been tired of the lying and just not sure where I want to be. I question my future happiness with this woman and if I can learn to trust her again.

As for me, I�m hitting the gym early in the mornings and coming home to spend time with the family. I told my wife if she is unhappy with me and she�s getting some professional help, that over time if she is still unhappy I will not stand in her way of divorcing but at the same time I need to see traction and some sort of transparency. I will not tolerate if she is seeing someone else. I told her we can cut ties and I told her that lately divorce has been on my mind too and it�s a scary thought so I will be seeking professional help to sort that out. I told her I was coming to her to let her know because I felt it was the right thing to do. I told her if I leave for the apartments again it will be for good, there won�t be any going back to think about things or to cool off. I�d have made up my mind and will be serving the papers. It�s not a threat. I think one year into it now my feelings for the most part are settled.

I believe I am doing what she should have done when she felt like she had one foot out the door and that was discuss it.

Here we are. We had gotten our older son a phone and we will be setting up some type of family sharing which wife said she has no problems with.

I still struggle a little with being patient and not feeling like w is still cake eating. If she did tell me there was someone else or she wanted to date I would have left her by now. If she said something happened In the past and asked for forgiveness then I could work on that.

I�m in the process of trying to sort out what I want and if I want that with my wife. I am looking at different therapists and watching videos on what�s best...so far I may focus on a marriage counselor with the John gottman experience.

Any pointers or words of advice?

small update since I am at the apartment now.

As for where I am mentally and emotionally, I'm good. I kinda felt like with the way W and I had been going that things were moving kinda fast. Felt like we skipped some needed time to be patient and relearning things. We jumped right into it after physically separating.

12 days from last update and W is coming back to saying ILY but seldomly and calling me baby, etc. But more judiciously. We've had sex a few times. We hug and kiss. She's start the life 360 and add me and my son. So we're able to track each other. There was one instance where my phone didn't show her location and I told her about it. She thought I was accusing her of turning hers off which she showed me hers was on and she showed me the travel path. She said she gets deflated when she is trying and I make it seem like I am not grateful for her trying. I told her sorry it seemed that way but I was only going by what my app was saying which when we both were at home we were able to look at them and her phone showed her on but mine showed her off. Then we used the share location feature with the iphones. She's not had an issue being transparent. She's also said I could use her iTunes account password one time to download something for my youngest on her old phone for him. So I have access she has freely given.

I'm not going to say I doubled down on giving time and space but I backed off. It's hard to put into so few words. I remember so many things from here that I was mindful of. There are posts by Miler when his W was kinda one foot out the door. I remember a lot of Steve85's posts. A lot of Sandi's posts. R2C's posts about thinking of the outcome or consequences and deciding on the action and dealing with it. AS and LH, I read your advice to others daily.

Much of what I do or don't do is shared with others throughout this forum. We make mistakes, we learn from them, dust ourselves off and get back to trying to be better. I still have my struggles. I know to be patient. I know to think ab out things while they are going on and before I say or do something if it will help or hurt. I've bitten my lip when I felt it was the right thing to do and other times I've taken my stance with my W because I felt like it was the right thing to do.

My W is in counseling for herself and I think it's helping her. I haven't gone yet, but its on my mind. I'm not pushing and am okay with where we are at for now.

The last few weeks work has been crazy with converting over to a new system. One night W asked me how it was going when I was still at work. I said it was going okay but sometimes it gets tough. She earlier said she was taking the kids to her brothers house for dinner but said because it sounded like I was having a rough day she stayed back to be with me at home. I see she is trying in her own ways. She didn't like me pushing or prodding her in the "right direction.

I had been going out and even mentioned to W she should take some time off and do something for herself. Whether its with friends or family. I'm not backing off completely ignoring my family duties at home.

I don't want this to sound all about my W but she has put her wedding ring back on. She had the engagement band on but is now wearing both rings. I don't know and haven't really asked but I think this is a positive sign(not just the ring, but everything she has been saying and doing after her meltdown for lack of better words). Before, I was hesitant with all of what was going on. We will see.

Nothing has changed DB-wise. Remain self differentiated, cool, calm. Even when it feels like the world is crumbling underneath and you're confused. it's okay to be. What we do and say matters though.

I'm going out more, with the family, with the kids, with her side of the family, with friends, and even alone. I don't find it awkward anymore. I enjoy my time alone doing things for me.

I didn't let the one year mark from BD get to me. In fact I remember that day I was happy for so many things in my life. I chose not to come on here to make it bigger than what it was. I'll leave it there for now.

Adam, those are some heavy updates there! Your W at one point said you are putting too much pressure on her and I agree. I would suggest you back off of her quite a bit. She does need to rebuild the trust but you can't keep hounding her about where she is and what she's doing all the time or it will backfire. Seems like you want her 100% all-in right now and she's trying to be but she's getting the impression that it's never enough for you. Just pull back and give this time to sort out. She's still got a lot of emotions swirling. Hopefully she follows through with the counseling, I think that will help.

And do try to get to RV, the two of you are struggling with communication right now and RV will give you some great tools for that. Tell her you've talked to people that have gone and that they highly recommend it for building communication skills. It is relationship-focused too, but the main thrust of it is building new paths to communicate better. Some people around here have called me a "validation guru", most of what I learned about validation was at RV.

Good luck and hang in there! Be patient!

Thanks for the support AS.

I backed off and things are simmering down.

As much as I would have loved to make this all about me, its about my wife and I being together, trying to figure this thing out...

journaling what's happened over the last week or so.

With school, W and I share a calendar for the kids. We text throughout the day to discuss events, homework and daily things. W would always start with a Good morning text and I'd reply. I don't really initiate anymore like I had been before. It's something like 3 or 4 our of 10 times. And now W is saying she loves me every day especially in the mornings before work, and that is the only time I say I love you back to her or maybe before bedtime when she says it. I stopped being the one to say it first. I'm taking it a little more slowly this time around.

Last week W told me she was going to her counselor session and when I met her at home, she seemed vibrant and really happy. She welcomed me with a kiss and asked how my day was and it just felt surreal. I didn't ask or I don't ask about her sessions. She doesn't speak about them. Just lets me know when she goes. In the beginning she did say she had homework to do on herself and she liked this therapist who gave her homework to change the way she had been thinking. She's a few visits in now and it feels like a noticeable difference. Just my feelings, but I believe its really helping her sort her stuff out. I am truly happy for her to make that step for herself.

W and I aren't really on social media or on the computers like days of old. I am at my apartment right now on the computer. I haven't brought it to the house. I seldom visit the apartment to get on it nor am I on the ipad much at the house�. and that also means I get on here much, much less. It's hard for me to put into words the trade off I get from it. Evening times, I spend a lot with my youngest one at the dinner table drawing pictures with him and he now wants to be an artist. I almost feel bad. He was wanting to be a builder or architect. But now he loves to draw so much that he wrote in one of his school activity sheets that he wants to be an artist. If he's an art director somewhere that'd be really cool. Its been hard to keep this forum away from my kids and my W from looking at so I keep it at the apartment pc. I stopped having it up on the ipad and not having enough time to journal. The kids are quick to grab it sometimes.

W and I sometimes watch shows together on tv and that's our way of winding down together. Sometimes we lay in bed for an hour while the little one showers in our bathroom and we talk about the day or the kids. I don't be all up on her though. We're on our sides of the bed and she'd sometimes scooch over to me and cuddle. She comes to me a lot more. There are days she'd be on Instagram and show me what crazy stuff is on there. I still have access to her phone but I haven't checked it in a while. While I am on that, I don't have any feelings about what she told me of that guy that day. I don't really think about it. I've said to myself, "self, well this is enough to move on from. what do I want to do?" I asked. so I said I would forgive and keep it going.

My mother in law lives with us now. The other day, W said her mom talked to her and asked if I could drive her after work to a wake. I had been sick and told her I would rather not if it was back into town with the traffic and W agreed that by the time I got home, the wake would be over. She said she would let her mom know. Her mother doesn't speak English and there would be a communication issue with making sure we arrived at the right place, right time and everything else. The next day during a text exchange, I told my W that although I was sick with a cold and it might be late that it felt like the right thing to do was take her so that is what I was going to do. She said no worries and she had a cousin able to take her but she loved that about me and she loves me for it.

My W said she has been very happy and said we needed to discuss me dropping this apartment and asked what that would take. We have our 15th anniversary in October and she asked if we could celebrate it after going out of town to a friend of hers wedding reception which is also the same weekend as our anniversary. She wanted to celebrate our anniversary. I said okay. I asked her how she felt about Retrouvaille and said I think it could really benefit us with communication and she said yes. She asked if it could be after our 15th anniversary and I said sure.

Yesterday she was out on a lunch with a client. She said she got invited to a baseball game and I said okay have fun. She sends me a picture of her and one of the ladies sporting their club tshirts. I guess she didn't have to do that but she did that in a way I guess to show me she was with a female. I never asked who she was going with except the company. She had told me about this the day prior and said she might be at the game a little later to where she might ask me to pick up my little one from day care. I told her sure no problem and to let me know if she does stay later. Which the day of she did. She has been picking up my son from daycare every day even on days I said I would because I get home later than she does.

I didn't get any red flags from her being out with work folks and she's got the life360 on and we text throughout the day where she was sending me pix of her and the lady eating food and at the game. She did say something about sobering up and having to wait for that before driving which kinda got on my nerves. She said she didn't want me to worry about her driving and drinking and I told her I was okay if she drinks but not to the point I have to wonder or worry if she needs to wait however long to sober up. The convo never became about trust but just on drinking and driving because it had been raining. Maybe I was wrong to tell her but I mentioned to her what I thought would have been a reasonable thing to do. I said she was out from lunchtime in the middle of the day to early evening and if she knew she would be coming home she should have found an earlier reasonable time to stop drinking rather than saying she wasn't coming home yet because she was waiting to sober up. That just bothered me and sounded careless.

I slept early on some cold meds and in the middle of the night we both woke up and had sex and laid with each other until the morning and went to work. She initiated. Guess maybe she felt bad. I don't know.

W and I are splitting weeks where she takes the youngest to daycare one week and I do the next, we rotate to give the other person early time to get into work to work out and exercise.

As for sex, we have it a few times a week. When I eased up on touching like hand on shoulder or back or stopped some of the foot rubs or back rubs, it turned into her doing that for me. I let the tension build. Sometimes it feels really hot and heavy and we have explored other things as well to keep it spicy. I've commented on things and she has been willing to try different things so after 25 years we still have plenty of room to explore and find new and creative ways to pique the other's interest. Sorry if this is TMI. I don't normally know if this is even important in the grand scheme of things in assessing how well couples work at being together. Nowadays with hearing how women can use sex to keep the man on the hook it makes me wonder.

I'd like to think we are slowly rebuilding intimacy not just from the sex but everything else where we share moments and have these positive exchanges where she feels I am invested.

I feel like I am being patient living my life wanting to see signs. I want to hear my W admit and recognize her share of the dmg or deterioration to the marriage and that she is all in to saving it or all in to try recon before I give up this apartment. It's hard paying these extra bills and being at the house and having money going out there too. But for now, finances are okay.

I've seen firsthand how things can swing from left to right quickly in the blink of an eye. At first sign of what I thought was possible recon I was eager to share some of this personal growth. Not saying I'm pulled back 100% but I almost have. She's in counseling. We are working on it. We're slowly communicating better about the kids, us. We're in the same bed, not separated. We're slowly rebuilding that connection, that bridge. This time I am doing it slower. No rush.

Earlier her boss texted her random weekend text saying how all the guys at work went on a hunting trip and no one asked the women if they wanted to go. She said she would call some of the ladies up and asked if my W wanted to go wine tasting. She said sure. I told her I was all for it. I want both of us to live our lives and be happy. Right now, I am finding happiness where I can with her. I think with counseling we will agree at some point that we make our own happiness.

I look at this 3 day weekend like I have the whole world in front of me and my W is welcomed to come along if she wants. I plan to cook a new dish for this weekend and take my boys out somewhere. got the little one a new baseball t for the back yard so will do that too. Looking to get them new gloves.

okay so although I have been working out and increasing some of my normal eating back, we apparently splurged a bit this summer and I gained a few pounds back. Trying to double down on the working out for next month but to be better at overall weight loss going into 2020.

I don't plan to give my W an anniversary gift but maybe a card. Not sure if my stance will change on that. She seems she is on board to celebrating us being together. She's excited about it actually with getting the room. It'll be one night with us away from the kids after the reception party.

I cant predict what's going to happen. Trying not to think about the negative, but be in the moment and thankful for now. Even keeled, emotional control. GAL. That will be a shift of focus. I had been trying to deal and cope where I was good at doing most of it alone. I still go out to places alone. I'd have these small conversations with people on my own time. last two books I had been looking through and not serious reading was on pleasing the woman and the art of conversation. I've felt like I've been a bit of an introvert and needed time to come out of my shell. And, with that... clicking post.

update:

Want to start by saying W and I have been co-existing well. Sharing responsibilities with the kids and having our alone time. Couple weeks ago she took me to a Texans game and it was fun.

Our anniversary is coming up and we will be out of town that weekend for her friends wedding. We plan to spend 2 nights just us at a resort. I'm thinking at this rate flowers and a gift wouldn't be bad because she believes and has said we are back together and I should move in.

We also have dates set up for just us in the future. She's got an out of town business trip with her boss who is also female for a couple days and we talked about what would be comfortable. She plans to facetime, send pictures of them and keep me in the loop. When she comes back it'll be on a Thursday and we plan to spend Friday just us.

We also have a trip planned with some very close friends to a local vineyard and we are all excited.

This doesn't mean everything is peachy and that we don't have disagreements. We both know we still have communication issues. And I still need to work on myself. My outlook isn't affected for the most part whether we make it or not, its not what used to be suffocating and to the point my head wanted to explode. I somewhat feel safe I still have the apartment so I am hesitant to make the next move. When she has mentioned R talk, I say I am patiently waiting and wanting to take things slowly.

The last argument we had (which was a couple days ago) was concerning her boss, who is also going through a divorce. Her boss just broke up with her boyfriend while she is still married. The boss's husband was the WAS and was caught cheating so the boss figured she'd date. My wife showed me the text of the guy breaking up with her via text. Told her the boss needs counseling and my W agreed. That woman is moving on to the next guy way too fast. My wife says her counseling is helping her sort her feelings out and feel a lot better. So my W sends her boss a text saying she is there for her with anything she needs and if she needs a girls night out to cry she would be there. She then asks me if this was alright. In the moment I said supporting her is fine but I don't feel 100% okay with you spending the night. This is where she got defensive and didn't know where I was coming from.

So after some reflecting and we both had a text exchange I said that I didn't have a problem with her supporting her boss or being there for a friend in need even if it was overnight, but I have a preference of wanting my wife home safe so I don't have to worry because just a couple days ago she was stuck in bad weather with two of her sisters. We had terrible rain here displacing a lot of people. I apologized and we seem to be picking right back up she saying words of affection. However, during this exchange she questioned how much time we had been spending together and I said it was because I thought we were fixing our relationship that I thought she may have needed to see I was around more opposed to before and she said she didn't have a problem with me being out and she sort of missed that. I'm definitely not overlooking this for many reasons. I do not want to come off as needy and too attached. I do take this as her being honest with me with us needing healthy space for ourselves. We've been communicating well for the last month and I think she was shocked to hear me say I had a problem with her being supportive of another woman in a dire time of need. I didn't mean for my being honest with my feelings to come across as something else like I didn't trust her or I actually had a problem with her being supportive so I caught myself and corrected that and its up to her to believe if I was sincere or not.

We even gained weight together over the summer and we are both now splitting meals and doubling down on working out. We were working out but this is like going to a restaurant for breakfast eating an 1100 calorie omelet, hashbrowns, with two mixed drinks for the day time and then drinking mixed drinks throughout the weekends and eating good at nights, steaks, wine, and all kinds of carbs. it was like 20 pounds of bad eating and drinking which we have cut back on lately.

So where does this put me? I agree that she and I need to spend time together yet as individuals doing our own thing. Do I think she has some hidden agenda? No. But I will not be blind to anything going on. I've not been posting here but I've been reading. And I don't plan to stop DB. I have been spending weekends with my kids taking them out. I also spend time alone, just to do it. Away from the wife and kids. Sometimes to clear my mind and to meditate.

When it comes to my relationship I have a whole list of things I try to be mindful of. Validate, show signs of appreciation and not just of her as my wife or mother but as an individual. Her mother lives with us and my wife screams bloody murder sometimes because she says they are so much alike but she cant stand some of the things her mother does. I use this to validate. I can understand why you would feel that way when she does x y z. Or that must be rough to deal with when she does that, I bet she makes you mad. Want me to beat her up for you? JK!
Then my W sometimes gives in especially when my mother in law hoards stuff or brings stuff over from where she was living. I tell my W things like I see what you did the other night and I'm glad you let your mom bring such and such over without saying anything. I tell her I'm sure your mom appreciates it and is thankful as well, even if she may not say anything. My W would say something like hearing thanks is the last thing I will ever get from my mom. Then I say your mom cooks for us a lot, and cooking for the family could be her way of saying thank you. I tell her I get it that sometimes hearing thank you would be nice.

My older son is taking French horn lessons and my second son is wanting to play a musical instrument too. He has a girl cousin who is also wanting to play violin. W and I agreed to take both of them at the same time to get lessons on a Saturday together at one of the shops around here. We both love the new area. Lots to do. My sister in law is busy with the newborn so she cant commit to taking her older daughter for music lessons so we offered. I actually was the one to tell my wife I would be okay to do that for her and she was happy about that. We are going to give it another week or two to see if the kids are still enthused about taking the lessons. My older one loves his private lessons and likes his band class and school all together.

Past weekend I took my older one out to a local comic book shop for his first time around here at the new place. It was more geared for adults with old b rated horror movies and Japanese manga toys and darker comics. Son picked out punisher as his first comic to get here and the guy gave it to him for free and he was thrilled. Then of course the younger one hears and was like dad so can we go to the comic book store too or what. I gave him a choice Chucky Cheese or comics and he naturally went with Chucky E Cheese. He was really good at a hopping/jumping game and we won a lot of tickets last night.

My older one loved our drive together as father son and we had a lot of time to talk about his school, him liking girls, his book he likes to read. W told me she got an email from his school that its an adult book with adult content like kissing. We spent almost 3 hours driving looking at all the neon signs in the big city looking for places to try out. He talked a lot, being comfortable in the passenger seat. I showed him 2 and 10 on the steering wheel. Told him how my step dad taught me how to drive, which was reckless back in the day. My son wants to learn so I am going to teach him somewhere in the open one of these upcoming weekends.

Both of my kids have been practicing baseball from the last time I got their baseball tee and some rubber practice balls. These kids seem to have a natural affinity to some of these sports. My younger one always impresses me, he is pretty good at picking up on the sports he plays like basketball. Him being ambidextrous still with dribbling two balls simultaneously up and down the sidewalk is pretty amazing at his age. He can still draw and write with both hands and his artwork is getting more detailed. The only thing is he does still like to copy. He needs inspiration so I draw a lot of things and he is able to copy my drawings pretty well. The older one he's on his pc games.

I don't know the future with my Wife. I mean, I don't feel like she's hit rock bottom but she has been willing to give this another shot. With that whole thing about my feelings and being honest, I wasn't sure if I was also being somewhat controlling in saying I didn't like it if my W was spending the night somewhere else. If my friend was in need and I was able to support them I would hope my W would be understanding and whatever issues we had could wait. So I believe I was at fault for not understanding and has since apologized for it.

I don't consider myself piecing or starting to recon yet. My wife is showing signs and doing things like willing to be transparent and communicate but there are still those moments of flare ups I think where she doesn't understand how I am feeling or the magnitude of it all.

Okay for the awkward part regarding intimacy. We're still at it pretty consistently I think enough for both of us throughout the week and my focus is on her and making sure she gets pleased. If we're having sex at least 4 times out of the week I'd initiate 3 and her 1. I've communicated I'd like to see more of her initiating or that I like it when she does this or that and it makes her feel sexy and naughty. She has started to initiate more. And when we kiss it could be anything from brushing of the lips and light touching to full on darting tongues and being rough.

I know my situation didn't follow the typical hitting rock bottom and now we are on the road to success path. I am working with that I got and trying to keep working at this with DB principles in mind.

for now my wife seems to have given me another chance and we are trying. We both seem willing. Do I believe she is 100% all in, no... because she will react to how I act and if I'm the one making it hard, she will naturally want out. So I still have to be aware of areas I can continuously improve on and make my 180s stick. Detachment and GAL doesn't stop. I'm aware that even if I do everything perfectly, she can change her mind tomorrow. I don't want to wallow or have self pity. Its funny my W has communicated several things she notices that has bothered her. Some I validate and others I go that must suck and she'd ask if it bothers me and I go nope.

Mind you, we are Asian (I'm mixed) and we have eaten at this Vietnamese restaurant today. Usually many of the Vietnamese patrons use toothpicks which they have at the counter just like they do at many other restaurants. Wife one time commented she didn't like when her mother gets the toothpicks from the front and picks her teeth in the restaurant. She says its gross. She used to not have any issues with this for many years until some recent enlightenment of I know nothing about... and back when I was growing up before meeting Asian people, I had the same thoughts like she does now. I thought it was gross to burp, slurp, smack, or pick your nose or teeth in public. Then when I moved and was around other Asians I was made aware of their culture. Guess in embracing it, I accepted it and took it as normal. It was a long time to change my viewpoint and sometimes it does still bother me but not to any great extent. Okay, so after lunch my mother in law grabs two toothpicks, one for her and she hands me one. My wife shoots me the side stare and as my mother in law alrdy has the toothpick in her mouth, I tell her thank you and do the same. I cant recall if I looked at my wife for her disproval or kept it moving. Probably kept it moving.

its time for me to get my car washed. had it for a few months without a wash and need to get some of the empty bottles thrown out and the car vacuumed before my older one goes to his Sunday school. BTW, we put both boys into their bible school to learn stuff for their first communion. Hope I said that right.

If anything sounds out of the normal and I need to pay special attention to, please let me know. Whether its her or me or both. Retrouvaille is still in the works btw. I am trying to make it less about my needs and just being detached for now. I saw when I was being honest about my feelings that she wasn't ready for that. There can be a better place to communicate and I am okay with not making it all about me. I still need to work on those urges or times when I can tell this woman how I feel. IC will be in my future for that to sort out my feelings.

In my head I will always have this idea she needs to hit rock bottom before we recon and I don't see her doing that so I don't feel like we will ever recon but it hasn't stopped me from living and enjoying life. With food and wine, it was a little too much enjoying. Its like going through the motion of a slow turn in what could be a turning point in the relationship.

Hi Adam,

just wanted to say hello. I'm still following your thread. I hope your anniversary trip goes well. Keep up the good work.

Hey Adam -

Good to see an update from you!

I don't know if you are Recon, but it sounds like you might be in piecing. Of course, I don't know what that looks like so I could be way off - but you're definitely farther along that path than many of us here.

Sounds like things are more positive than negative in your sit, that's always a good thing. About the only advice I have is to try and keep your expectations low, and remember that you're working on building something new.

I sincerely wish you the best - it is good to see a hopeful post!

Take care, man

New Thread here:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2867014&#Post2867014