Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/06/19 05:31 PM
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/06/19 07:22 PM
Not sure if this is going to work ... originally posted on your old thread, but got a topic locked message ...
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Self forgiveness is a difficult one. You have to first strip away the many layers of narrative that we overlay to protect ourselves from ourselves. I am not there yet. There are times when protecting my own ego stops me from getting to the nut of it.
"I did A, because he did B".
A is self awareness
B is self preservation.
"I became cold and detached because he was critical and controlling" or "I neglected our MR because I was focused on being a mother". I have to stop at "I became cold and detached" and "I neglected our MR". Sometimes I manage it ... sometimes a little voice whispers "... because he was a [censored]".
Yes, my H is controlling, overly critical, suspicious and judgemental. Just like your H is a coward for living two lives instead of trying to fix the one he had. They both preferred to wipe away the past and start again with a blank sheet instead of doing the work. They took the easy way out (though they both probably know now there is no easy way, no blank slate, with kids).
But we can't control our Hs and we can't change the past.
All I have is the knowledge that "I am cold and detached", "I am dismissive and can make people feel inadequate" and "I neglected our MR". This I can control. This I can change.
Anyway, random thoughts. My exBF visited with my kids and I the other day. He mentioned I can be negative about my H infront of the kids - nothing major like "he is a [censored]" but side comments like "he insists on a TV in EVERY room" when I was showing my exBF around the house. I have normalised H bashing to the point it doesn't seem like H bashing. I still have some ways to go it seems.
But, that we are willing to look says something about how far we have come. Most people never have that desire to truly know themselves.
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Self forgiveness is a difficult one. You have to first strip away the many layers of narrative that we overlay to protect ourselves from ourselves. I am not there yet. There are times when protecting my own ego stops me from getting to the nut of it.
"I did A, because he did B".
A is self awareness
B is self preservation.
"I became cold and detached because he was critical and controlling" or "I neglected our MR because I was focused on being a mother". I have to stop at "I became cold and detached" and "I neglected our MR". Sometimes I manage it ... sometimes a little voice whispers "... because he was a [censored]".
Yes, my H is controlling, overly critical, suspicious and judgemental. Just like your H is a coward for living two lives instead of trying to fix the one he had. They both preferred to wipe away the past and start again with a blank sheet instead of doing the work. They took the easy way out (though they both probably know now there is no easy way, no blank slate, with kids).
But we can't control our Hs and we can't change the past.
All I have is the knowledge that "I am cold and detached", "I am dismissive and can make people feel inadequate" and "I neglected our MR". This I can control. This I can change.
Anyway, random thoughts. My exBF visited with my kids and I the other day. He mentioned I can be negative about my H infront of the kids - nothing major like "he is a [censored]" but side comments like "he insists on a TV in EVERY room" when I was showing my exBF around the house. I have normalised H bashing to the point it doesn't seem like H bashing. I still have some ways to go it seems.
But, that we are willing to look says something about how far we have come. Most people never have that desire to truly know themselves.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 04:14 AM
Dejavu, it seems forgiveness can mean different things. I personally don't feel inclined to forgive my husband because he's not sorry for what he's done and he hasn't apologized. It's admirable though how you're so early in your situation and you're trying so hard to accept and forgive. There's a fine line to walk between forgiving to help yourself move on and forgiving to the point where the forgive-ee takes it as a green light to exploit you further. It's all so complicated.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 05:25 AM
FS - I think I can cop to being dismissive at times...and I definitely neglect our MR. Of course there are a thousand reasons...but no real excuses. I have to find a way to make my peace with that. As always...a work in progress.
Nicole - From what I’ve read about your H, I am not surprised you aren’t feeling very forgiving towards him. He is unbelievably arrogant in the way that he has treated you. My H, on the other hand, has been pretty decent to me all things considered. He has had flashes of brutal and thoughtless behaviour - the blow up over his made-up date of separation, his request that I hurry things along so he can buy a property he wants, his characterization of our marriage as something that is “hanging over his head”, telling his mom that having 50% parents will be “good for them” [translation - “good for me”], etc... but generally he has been fair with respect to our financial settlement and he has been really good to our kids and helpful when it comes to driving them places even when they are technically with me. Honestly, I think FS is right. His biggest offence is that he is a coward and it led him to digging a hole so deep he could not see any other way out of it except to cut and run. He can’t escape himself however. If he is going to be the “good person” he says he is trying to be, sooner or later, he will have to do the work.
Sigh... my S11 just came to tell me that he thinks he might be depressed. I asked why and he tells me that he doesn’t want to hurt his dad’s feelings by telling him that he doesn’t want to go to his house and he just wants to be at home. I just hugged him and told him it will be better when dad buys his new house and he has his own room. He then said that he doesn’t want to have to miss me. Heart...break...how is this my life?
Nicole - From what I’ve read about your H, I am not surprised you aren’t feeling very forgiving towards him. He is unbelievably arrogant in the way that he has treated you. My H, on the other hand, has been pretty decent to me all things considered. He has had flashes of brutal and thoughtless behaviour - the blow up over his made-up date of separation, his request that I hurry things along so he can buy a property he wants, his characterization of our marriage as something that is “hanging over his head”, telling his mom that having 50% parents will be “good for them” [translation - “good for me”], etc... but generally he has been fair with respect to our financial settlement and he has been really good to our kids and helpful when it comes to driving them places even when they are technically with me. Honestly, I think FS is right. His biggest offence is that he is a coward and it led him to digging a hole so deep he could not see any other way out of it except to cut and run. He can’t escape himself however. If he is going to be the “good person” he says he is trying to be, sooner or later, he will have to do the work.
Sigh... my S11 just came to tell me that he thinks he might be depressed. I asked why and he tells me that he doesn’t want to hurt his dad’s feelings by telling him that he doesn’t want to go to his house and he just wants to be at home. I just hugged him and told him it will be better when dad buys his new house and he has his own room. He then said that he doesn’t want to have to miss me. Heart...break...how is this my life?
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 05:47 AM
DV,
Regarding forgiveness...
At BD, I thought I did forgive my W and that I was capable of it. Later I found out this was a feeling that I am not prepared to deal with yet. It's hard for me to forgive my W after having a moment of clarity. I do know I need to forgive myself because I was naïve.
There is a time and place for forgiveness and right now, that feeling is best left buried somewhere. I don't think I need to forgive W to move forward. The opposite is also true in that I don't need to resent W to move forward.
I will allow myself time to feel both and be honest about it.
My W hasn't earned forgiveness and the first step I need for that is acknowledgement of what she did. She hasn't and most likely will never admit to what she is doing. As an adult, a H with faults, I can accept a woman who is imperfect, maybe someone who is trying. I don't think I can accept a woman who neglects the family over her own personal interests. I don't think I can accept a woman who puts another man over her children.
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
If I were to ever be in recon, I'd need to dig up those feelings and deal with them. For now, I don't see a need, but I am not faced with a lot of internalizing these emotions so maybe it's just easier for me, choosing to not think too much into it for the moment.
Regarding forgiveness...
At BD, I thought I did forgive my W and that I was capable of it. Later I found out this was a feeling that I am not prepared to deal with yet. It's hard for me to forgive my W after having a moment of clarity. I do know I need to forgive myself because I was naïve.
There is a time and place for forgiveness and right now, that feeling is best left buried somewhere. I don't think I need to forgive W to move forward. The opposite is also true in that I don't need to resent W to move forward.
I will allow myself time to feel both and be honest about it.
My W hasn't earned forgiveness and the first step I need for that is acknowledgement of what she did. She hasn't and most likely will never admit to what she is doing. As an adult, a H with faults, I can accept a woman who is imperfect, maybe someone who is trying. I don't think I can accept a woman who neglects the family over her own personal interests. I don't think I can accept a woman who puts another man over her children.
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
If I were to ever be in recon, I'd need to dig up those feelings and deal with them. For now, I don't see a need, but I am not faced with a lot of internalizing these emotions so maybe it's just easier for me, choosing to not think too much into it for the moment.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Adam04
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
Yes. It is work and there are some days when I feel less forgiving than others but forgiveness is still the goal.Does my H deserve my forgiveness? Probably not but I want him to have it anyway. Again...it isn't for him. It is for me and even more so, it is for my kids. They are watching every interaction between their dad and I...my son, in particular. I need them to see that their mom is okay and I don't think that is what they will see if I am hanging on to anger and resentment.
Originally Posted by Adam04
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
I can so relate to this Adam. It is strange that I think of my H as a source of comfort because the reality is that he has not been that for me for a very long time. Once again, my brain and my heart are at odds on this.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
My LMFT brought something like this up before we closed on Monday.
He talked about how love is a choice, ultimately. Feelings of love are part of the ‘information’ that we use to make decisions, but he reiterated that using feelings to make major life decisions like divorce is not a good idea, to put it mildly.
Originally Posted by Adam04
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I can so relate to this Adam. It is strange that I think of my H as a source of comfort because the reality is that he has not been that for me for a very long time. Once again, my brain and my heart are at odds on this.
I’ve taken some 2x4s on this in my thread that I need to respond to; I go back and forth.
What I need to permanently realize (I’m there at times depending on my mood) is that W has changed, and that I should not rely on her like that. Some days that thought is hard to reconcile; some days it’s really easy. But I’ve noticed that within myself it’s getting easier to not rely on her as much.
(((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/07/19 09:53 PM
DV6,
I believe I know where you are coming from with being genuine in your interactions. Just saying don't beat yourself up thinking you have to forgive so you don't resent. We are all full of emotions. As people say here you don't have to be BFF but you can be friendly with them. For me, it's the emotional control. I commend you for tackling this aspect of it early on. I can't sort out all my feelings and I have a hard time finding the right words. You mentioned your work and talking to others about these sorts of things right? I think this puts you farther down the road so I'm going to get there in my own time.
Talking about resentment, forgiveness, our actions and the optics of what others see. Whether you forgive or resent your WAS, it is important to treat them with respect. You are right , your children will see this, but they won't know your feelings unless you tell them. Also like Nicol said, you can display certain behavior for the kids but don't let that be a green light for someone who is already disrespecting you, they will not see it the same as children. What is that saying to not mistaken your kindness?
I can also understand if things were finite and a final decision was to be at peace and forgive. I made a comment somewhere else about this as if between me and God I'll forgive everyone as I pass. But with children involved and where we may have to reinforce or re-establish boundaries to protect ourselves while still dealing with the WAS, it makes me think about what that forgiveness looks like, especially if they keep pushing their limits and one keeps on forgiving them.
I don't mean to talk you down, I would love to forgive and move on. I think between W and I we have a lot of road to cover before getting to a good spot for that.
I believe I know where you are coming from with being genuine in your interactions. Just saying don't beat yourself up thinking you have to forgive so you don't resent. We are all full of emotions. As people say here you don't have to be BFF but you can be friendly with them. For me, it's the emotional control. I commend you for tackling this aspect of it early on. I can't sort out all my feelings and I have a hard time finding the right words. You mentioned your work and talking to others about these sorts of things right? I think this puts you farther down the road so I'm going to get there in my own time.
Talking about resentment, forgiveness, our actions and the optics of what others see. Whether you forgive or resent your WAS, it is important to treat them with respect. You are right , your children will see this, but they won't know your feelings unless you tell them. Also like Nicol said, you can display certain behavior for the kids but don't let that be a green light for someone who is already disrespecting you, they will not see it the same as children. What is that saying to not mistaken your kindness?
I can also understand if things were finite and a final decision was to be at peace and forgive. I made a comment somewhere else about this as if between me and God I'll forgive everyone as I pass. But with children involved and where we may have to reinforce or re-establish boundaries to protect ourselves while still dealing with the WAS, it makes me think about what that forgiveness looks like, especially if they keep pushing their limits and one keeps on forgiving them.
I don't mean to talk you down, I would love to forgive and move on. I think between W and I we have a lot of road to cover before getting to a good spot for that.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/08/19 07:06 AM
Thank you Bo and Adam. I appreciate your support. I wish I had all of my feelings sorted out. I know how I want to feel. I know that I want to get past this. I know it is going to take time. I start out each day with forgiveness, peace and love as my goal. I have to be honest in saying that I don’t always get there. When I don’t, I try not to beat myself up but it is tough. I still miss my H and I can’t seem to shake this burning feeling in my chest whenever I let myself feel the loss. Next week it will be five months since BD. In some ways, it feels like a lifetime ago and in other ways, like it happened only yesterday.
My kids head off to their dad’s after school tomorrow and I won’t see them until Monday after school. My son was clinging to me for a bit tonight... telling me that he is going to miss me too much and just wants to stay at home. I was super upbeat and told him that wherever he is, I am still in his heart and he is always in mine and that it is important he gets time with his dad. He seemed to like that answer and found it comforting. I wish I did. Inside my heart was breaking. I hate that my kids have to deal with this...it is hard not to feel like I have failed them.
My kids head off to their dad’s after school tomorrow and I won’t see them until Monday after school. My son was clinging to me for a bit tonight... telling me that he is going to miss me too much and just wants to stay at home. I was super upbeat and told him that wherever he is, I am still in his heart and he is always in mine and that it is important he gets time with his dad. He seemed to like that answer and found it comforting. I wish I did. Inside my heart was breaking. I hate that my kids have to deal with this...it is hard not to feel like I have failed them.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/08/19 05:54 PM
Journaling...
Today is transition day when my kids go to their dad's for the weekend. As per usual, my son was in tears this morning about having to leave his home and me and saying he is going to miss me too much. So this morning, I texted my H to let him know that S11 was upset and asked him to make sure our D11 had the kids' cell phone so I could call him this evening. H texts back a super cheerful response "Of course we'll make it work" with exclamation marks. He then texts me later to tell me S11 always has fun and it is just an "S11's change of venue" issue" as if transitions are just difficult for S11 in general. Could not let that go. Just said that it is not just a transition...it is having to leave his home to go to a house where his dad lives with another family and another woman ("roommate") who is not his mom. I also said that yes, he is sensitive, but it doesn't make his feelings and thoughts any less valid and that I know he (H) wants this to be as easy for the kids as it is for him but that is just not the case. So, of course, I feel bad that I reacted that way and apologized. I know it hurts him too. He texted back right away and said he would work with him lots this weekend. Missed the mark this morning on peace and forgiveness I guess. I really wish I could just run away for a couple months and get my head and my heart in alignment once and for all.
Today is transition day when my kids go to their dad's for the weekend. As per usual, my son was in tears this morning about having to leave his home and me and saying he is going to miss me too much. So this morning, I texted my H to let him know that S11 was upset and asked him to make sure our D11 had the kids' cell phone so I could call him this evening. H texts back a super cheerful response "Of course we'll make it work" with exclamation marks. He then texts me later to tell me S11 always has fun and it is just an "S11's change of venue" issue" as if transitions are just difficult for S11 in general. Could not let that go. Just said that it is not just a transition...it is having to leave his home to go to a house where his dad lives with another family and another woman ("roommate") who is not his mom. I also said that yes, he is sensitive, but it doesn't make his feelings and thoughts any less valid and that I know he (H) wants this to be as easy for the kids as it is for him but that is just not the case. So, of course, I feel bad that I reacted that way and apologized. I know it hurts him too. He texted back right away and said he would work with him lots this weekend. Missed the mark this morning on peace and forgiveness I guess. I really wish I could just run away for a couple months and get my head and my heart in alignment once and for all.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/08/19 09:11 PM
Pleasant text exchange with my H over some kid issues (snow storm here today and lots of cancellations of things) and then last text apologetically asking me about the SA and if I know what the timeline is with my L. Ugh...there is that awful burning sensation in my chest again and now my eyes are welling up with tears. When am I going to get past this??? It still hurts so much. I just have this awful picture in my head of my H reinventing himself with wife #3 and becoming the husband he could have been with me if he had felt more like a man and less like a rebellious teenager. Honestly, this really does feel like half of this is about him running away from home and finally getting to stand on his own two feet. I really believe that having kids and living with his mom was such a set up. It was fine when it was just him and I because we would go for days without seeing her but when we had our kids, she got super involved and I think over time it became too much for him to have "two wives". I think that is one of the reasons he did not even attempt to get me to move out. The option in the SA for him to buy me out was just there for show really. He knew I couldn't possibly take him up on it and I honestly think he didn't want me to. Ah well... hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/08/19 11:07 PM
So sorry you are going through this, its unfortunate that your H is playing with your emotions. Very important to be strong in these moments. He knows full well that you didnt have an answer for him so why did he ask. Tell him please keep all conversations only about the kids, everything else goes through the L's.
What a great guy he must be!!! SMH....
Deja please stop trying to figure everything out you are driving yourself crazy. Work on yourself. He has the kids, you have the free time to do what you want. Are you following the advice given here? What GAL activities are you doing? Snowing out... well is there skiing in your area then go... movie theater... go... gym.... go.... start moving keep busy. Its the only way out of this. Sitting there thinking about everything you could have done or would have done is not helping.
What a great guy he must be!!! SMH....
Deja please stop trying to figure everything out you are driving yourself crazy. Work on yourself. He has the kids, you have the free time to do what you want. Are you following the advice given here? What GAL activities are you doing? Snowing out... well is there skiing in your area then go... movie theater... go... gym.... go.... start moving keep busy. Its the only way out of this. Sitting there thinking about everything you could have done or would have done is not helping.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/09/19 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Ugh...there is that awful burning sensation in my chest again and now my eyes are welling up with tears. When am I going to get past this??? It still hurts so much.
(((DV6)))
You will. In small pieces, but you will. And it will continue to hurt. Some days will be more painful than the others.
But you will also be healing. It's like recovery from a serious accident. You don't get better quickly. It takes months upon months for recovery.
I can truly say that yes, overall, things go and WILL get better in time. You may not feel it day to day, but over a prolonged period you will notice a positive change.
You just need to remember to keep taking care of yourself. Love yourself. Think about what makes DV6 so wonderful and build on that. Make the world know of your amazing traits. Let your body scream the amazing qualities you possess.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I just have this awful picture in my head of my H reinventing himself with wife #3 and becoming the husband he could have been with me if he had felt more like a man and less like a rebellious teenager.
He will not be. He is not putting the work in now. And even if it was, it's half-assed. Half-assery does not get anyone far. Sooner or later it will come back to bite him.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?
Yep, but how would you know what went wrong and how to fix it if you did not go through the event? Learn from it and work on not letting it happen again.
Originally Posted by bhappy2
Are you following the advice given here? What GAL activities are you doing? Snowing out... well is there skiing in your area then go... movie theater... go... gym.... go.... start moving keep busy. Its the only way out of this. Sitting there thinking about everything you could have done or would have done is not helping.
This. Fake it until you make it. It does work.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/09/19 06:25 AM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I hate that my kids have to deal with this...it is hard not to feel like I have failed them.
(DV)
You haven't failed. This is where I'd suggest you take the focus off your H and place that on you.
This morning, my S6 also wrapped his thin, little body around my leg telling me he wanted to stay with me and not go with mommy. He saw me in my t-shirt and not my work shirt so thought I was staying home. I questioned for a split second if my W registered all of this and would have the capacity to think about what would happen in the future or if she even cared. Wasted energy.
It's near 6 months for me and I know how you feel about it feeling like eternity in some ways and others, just like yesterday.
I'm alone in the house tonight so I did a little ruminating and let some thoughts flow where I got teary eyed. Got that out of my system and I'm good for a while. It's okay to feel... I'm disappointed, hurt, a little afraid, angry, lonely, and at the same time, I know I will be okay, I know better. We have to keep moving and not wallow or have self pity. It doesn't serve us any good. I get that burning feeling too. I used to get unbearable headaches. I pop a lot of Tylenol through the days. When I do feel a swell of emotion, I sometimes let it flow through and I think about something good so I can smile through the pain.
From the exchange with your H on your S feelings, it's good to hear that your H said he would work with him this weekend.
You two have to take baby steps and make the necessary adjustments as you go in trying to figure this out. I'd always keep the line of communication clear with your H if you want or need him to do something for your kids. I don't think its a crazy expectation if you have a genuine concern and need the other parent to know so they too can help deal with it.
You'll make it through DV. Hugs to you and your kids.
Please do something great for yourself this weekend.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/09/19 07:32 AM
Thank you BHappy and Phoenix.
I went and got my nails done after work and made plans with my nail tech for a girls night next weekend. She wants to give me a makeover...lol. She is a few years younger than me, single and wanting to cultivate more female friendships like me. She is quite different from me...a bit on the flakey, quirky side...but she has a big heart and a genuine spirit. I always feel better after we have spent some time together.
The burning feeling in my chest has subsided. I think it is a mixture of grief, disappointment, disbelief (still) and fear. None of those feelings are pleasant on their own but combined they can be overwhelming at times. I think it will be awhile yet for the burning to go away completely. That will be a big sign for me that I have fully achieved detachment and acceptance.
GAL activities... I am getting there. Kids are still with me 75% of the time and I work full-time so my free time is a bit limited. The gym I had a membership to went bankrupt a few months ago and the other ones nearby aren’t really my cup of tea. There is a new one opening soon nearby so hoping it will be offering some good membership deals. I would prefer a women’s-only gym but the only one we had is the one that went bankrupt. I have my pool league once a week and was thinking about joining one of the local Rotary clubs. Still have yet to start guitar lessons but trying to practice a little each day so I can build up some callouses on my fingers and be able to play for the duration of a lesson. My main goal is to build up a bigger network of friends so I won’t feel my sister’s absence too much when she goes away in December for a couple months.
Phoenix... I like the goals you have been setting for yourself. You have come a long way.
Much love to you both. (((HUGS)))
I went and got my nails done after work and made plans with my nail tech for a girls night next weekend. She wants to give me a makeover...lol. She is a few years younger than me, single and wanting to cultivate more female friendships like me. She is quite different from me...a bit on the flakey, quirky side...but she has a big heart and a genuine spirit. I always feel better after we have spent some time together.
The burning feeling in my chest has subsided. I think it is a mixture of grief, disappointment, disbelief (still) and fear. None of those feelings are pleasant on their own but combined they can be overwhelming at times. I think it will be awhile yet for the burning to go away completely. That will be a big sign for me that I have fully achieved detachment and acceptance.
GAL activities... I am getting there. Kids are still with me 75% of the time and I work full-time so my free time is a bit limited. The gym I had a membership to went bankrupt a few months ago and the other ones nearby aren’t really my cup of tea. There is a new one opening soon nearby so hoping it will be offering some good membership deals. I would prefer a women’s-only gym but the only one we had is the one that went bankrupt. I have my pool league once a week and was thinking about joining one of the local Rotary clubs. Still have yet to start guitar lessons but trying to practice a little each day so I can build up some callouses on my fingers and be able to play for the duration of a lesson. My main goal is to build up a bigger network of friends so I won’t feel my sister’s absence too much when she goes away in December for a couple months.
Phoenix... I like the goals you have been setting for yourself. You have come a long way.
Much love to you both. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/09/19 07:57 AM
Thank you Adam. The feelings and thoughts you have are so much like mine. I, too, know I will be okay and maybe even better off in the end. But I have to get through the grief first and that is just going to take time.There are no short cuts unfortunately and if I tried to make one, I know I would only regret it in the end. At the end of the day, I have to be able to look in the mirror and be okay with the person looking back at me. Sorry about your headaches. I’ve been plagued with them for most of my life. I’ve had way too many trips to the emergency room than I care to remember. As I’ve gotten older, however, my headaches have decreased a somewhat and increased in longevity. I get them about once every four to six weeks now and they last about three days. No fun at all.
My H has been good with our kids. When he was living his double life, he was not a great dad. He was good when he was around but you can’t really be too effective when your kids only see you an hour a day. My D11 even commented the other day that she sees her dad way more now that he doesn’t live with us. How backwards is that.
I hope you have a good weekend too. I do have some plans. I get every other Monday off so this is my three-day weekend. I’ve got plans for each day. Tomorrow is a women’s wellness fair at the local convention centre and my sister is staying overnight. We’re up early on Sunday and heading to the mainland for an overnight trip...something we do every year around our birthday. I always look forward to it.
We will both make it through. Love and (((HUGS))) to you and your little boy.
My H has been good with our kids. When he was living his double life, he was not a great dad. He was good when he was around but you can’t really be too effective when your kids only see you an hour a day. My D11 even commented the other day that she sees her dad way more now that he doesn’t live with us. How backwards is that.
I hope you have a good weekend too. I do have some plans. I get every other Monday off so this is my three-day weekend. I’ve got plans for each day. Tomorrow is a women’s wellness fair at the local convention centre and my sister is staying overnight. We’re up early on Sunday and heading to the mainland for an overnight trip...something we do every year around our birthday. I always look forward to it.
We will both make it through. Love and (((HUGS))) to you and your little boy.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/10/19 05:04 AM
Hi Dejavu, I've been going through this for years and I still feel grief. There's a book on Amazon called "Left Alone to Learn" that captures what we're feeling. Hopefully you can order it!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/10/19 07:15 AM
So sorry this has dragged on so long for you Nicole. Cannot imagine feeling this way for years. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I will check out that book for sure. Thanks. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/11/19 07:21 AM
Great weekend for me!! I’m at a casino/resort in Washington. Spent the morning and early afternoon shopping and got some great deals including next year’s winter jackets for my kids. Spent the evening at the casino and my name got called to go into this “cage of cash”. I had 30 seconds to grab as much “cash” that was blowing all over the place. It was much harder than I thought. They called a name every hour so only about five people’s names got called when I was there. The guy before me won $180 in slot play so I didn’t have high hopes that I would do much better. I lucked out though and won $820 in slot play!!! I turned it into $780 cash which is over $1,000 Cdn. So cool!! Split it with my sister. We’re thinking it is good that we won because there is a chance we might not make it home tomorrow. Major snow storm. All the schools where I live are closed which is great cause I won’t have to rush home to pick up my kids from school. They’re just going to stay with their dad. It is supposed to be better tomorrow so we’re crossing our fingers.
Love and (((HUGS))) to all of you out there in DB Land.
Love and (((HUGS))) to all of you out there in DB Land.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/11/19 01:32 PM
Wooo congrats DV that sounds like a fun time!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/12/19 01:56 PM
Being trapped with 780 dollars of "free money" in a casino during a snow storm seems like one of those "good problems"
I hope you make it back home safely!
I hope you make it back home safely!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/12/19 07:57 PM
Sadly, I did make it home...lol. 
Another snow day but managed to make it into work. Super quiet day of course as people are staying home. I switched my Spring Break vacation dates around so my H could go on his ski trip. I thought about not doing it just to make him mad (I AM human) but decided against it. That is just not who I am. So he can take his week to go with his "buddy". Whether or not that is really who he is going with... matters not. I would like to think we have gotten past the lying but I would be an idiot to assume that. Now I am just trying to figure out what to do with my kids that week. I hate travelling during school closures. Everything is jacked up in price and kid-friendly places are usually crowded.
My SD19 just sent me an article on the challenges of being bisexual in which she is a featured interviewee. I am glad she and I have been able to maintain such a strong relationship and that she trusts me and sees me as a support to her. Hard to believe she is an adult. Seems like just yesterday we were picking out her flower girl dress for my wedding. Time sure does go by quickly. I was so happy that day. Really felt like I had finally gotten it right in the relationship department. If only I had known then what I know now. I would probably have still married my H but I would have made some 180s a lot earlier. Like Living said in her thread, I took a lot for granted and I didn't make a consistent effort to maintain the MR the way I should have. I know it takes two and that he made his share of mistakes, but I am not completely blameless in that regard. I should have paid attention to my intuition and took steps to change things when I first felt like he was distancing himself. Sigh... forgiving oneself is a really slooowwww process.
Another snow day but managed to make it into work. Super quiet day of course as people are staying home. I switched my Spring Break vacation dates around so my H could go on his ski trip. I thought about not doing it just to make him mad (I AM human) but decided against it. That is just not who I am. So he can take his week to go with his "buddy". Whether or not that is really who he is going with... matters not. I would like to think we have gotten past the lying but I would be an idiot to assume that. Now I am just trying to figure out what to do with my kids that week. I hate travelling during school closures. Everything is jacked up in price and kid-friendly places are usually crowded.
My SD19 just sent me an article on the challenges of being bisexual in which she is a featured interviewee. I am glad she and I have been able to maintain such a strong relationship and that she trusts me and sees me as a support to her. Hard to believe she is an adult. Seems like just yesterday we were picking out her flower girl dress for my wedding. Time sure does go by quickly. I was so happy that day. Really felt like I had finally gotten it right in the relationship department. If only I had known then what I know now. I would probably have still married my H but I would have made some 180s a lot earlier. Like Living said in her thread, I took a lot for granted and I didn't make a consistent effort to maintain the MR the way I should have. I know it takes two and that he made his share of mistakes, but I am not completely blameless in that regard. I should have paid attention to my intuition and took steps to change things when I first felt like he was distancing himself. Sigh... forgiving oneself is a really slooowwww process.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/12/19 08:45 PM
Love this so much, I had to add it to my thread.
This is so, so, so true. Wish I had read this thirteen years ago.
Quote
From the MWD newsletter:
"I think you hit the nail on the head. Commitment is what makes marriages work through all kinds of challenges.
Those of us who have been married forever (Wayne and I have been married 47 years and counting) know that life has its ups and downs not to mention the twists and turns no one can predict when you first fall in love.
If you want to know before you get married if it will work you have to look not only at your future partners values, behavior and the way they deal with challenges--you must become aware of your own.
You and your partner need to be committed to making it work. Long term happy marriages don't just happen-- you make them happen.
And by the way they won't always be happy--there will be some very tough times when you will question not only why you married this person, but why you are staying married.
Love will seem far away and very difficult to find--that is when commitment and "right attitudes" and having healthy values and even skills keep you there trying until you can find the love that was there all along just buried under the suffering that life sometimes dishes out....
Thanks for the inspiration--I just wanted to let you know I think you were right on."
"I think you hit the nail on the head. Commitment is what makes marriages work through all kinds of challenges.
Those of us who have been married forever (Wayne and I have been married 47 years and counting) know that life has its ups and downs not to mention the twists and turns no one can predict when you first fall in love.
If you want to know before you get married if it will work you have to look not only at your future partners values, behavior and the way they deal with challenges--you must become aware of your own.
You and your partner need to be committed to making it work. Long term happy marriages don't just happen-- you make them happen.
And by the way they won't always be happy--there will be some very tough times when you will question not only why you married this person, but why you are staying married.
Love will seem far away and very difficult to find--that is when commitment and "right attitudes" and having healthy values and even skills keep you there trying until you can find the love that was there all along just buried under the suffering that life sometimes dishes out....
Thanks for the inspiration--I just wanted to let you know I think you were right on."
This is so, so, so true. Wish I had read this thirteen years ago.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 04:17 AM
So...I switched my vacation days during Spring Break to accommodate my H’s ski trip. I was feeling a bit bummed that he would be out having fun while I was at home. I decided I wanted to take them somewhere so started looking around on the internet for ideas. Long story short... I booked a six-day trip to San Diego, California. My daughter is super excited while my son is mad at me for ruining his Spring Break with a vacation...lol. He is an interesting little guy...anxious about anything unfamiliar. He’ll enjoy himself once he is there. I wanted my sister to come with us but she has been travelling a lot lately so she said she would house sit. So I invited my MIL to come with us. I thought she would really enjoy a vacation with her grandkids and she isn’t getting any younger so I thought why not. Nice to have an extra person to look after my son while my daughter and I go on rides that he will more than likely refuse to go on. It’s a win-win. Anyway... she was thrilled I asked her to go. She has wanted to go to San Diego but the friend she travels with doesn’t want to go there. It is awesome to have something to look forward to. 
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 05:50 AM
I (heart) San Diego.
Though I live in the Los Angeles metro area, San Diego is quite honestly my favorite of the major Cali cities. San Diego is just so chill and laid-back.
LA is too congested and too busy; I’ve never really understood the appeal of San Francisco, I’ve found San Fran too cold, too cramped (it’s a very compact city), and the city has some very real issues that need to be addressed.
If the weather cooperates, I recommend Mission Beach. W and I went there when we went to SD. It might be a bit touristy, but I really liked it. Also found a good number of sand dollars while at Mission Beach.
Not sure if you’ve ever been to Cali, but the food here is mostly excellent (I have had a handful of bad meals in SoCal). I hope you’ll enjoy it in San Diego!
(((HUGS)))
Though I live in the Los Angeles metro area, San Diego is quite honestly my favorite of the major Cali cities. San Diego is just so chill and laid-back.
LA is too congested and too busy; I’ve never really understood the appeal of San Francisco, I’ve found San Fran too cold, too cramped (it’s a very compact city), and the city has some very real issues that need to be addressed.
If the weather cooperates, I recommend Mission Beach. W and I went there when we went to SD. It might be a bit touristy, but I really liked it. Also found a good number of sand dollars while at Mission Beach.
Not sure if you’ve ever been to Cali, but the food here is mostly excellent (I have had a handful of bad meals in SoCal). I hope you’ll enjoy it in San Diego!
(((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 07:43 AM
Thanks Bo. My H and I drove down the Oregon Coast into Monterey for our honeymoon. We went through San Francisco and I’m with you... we went down to Fisherman’s Wharf and couldn’t wait to get out of there. It was kinda grungy. The other stops we had were great. I love, love, love that drive. So beautiful and scenic. Similar to Long Beach on Vancouver Island which is about a two and a half hour drive from me. The last time I was in San Diego was when I was 13 on vacation with my family. My sister has been there a few times. She agrees with you...her favourite Cali city too. I can’t wait. It is going to be nice to hang out with my kids in warm weather.
I would love to check out Mission Beach. I think sand dollars are really cool. I had one given to me by my dad’s friend who was a helicopter pilot. One of the perks where my dad worked is that I often got to go on helicopter rides to look for forest fires. One time we landed on a beach to check it out and that is where he found the sand dollar and gave it to me. Sadly, he died in a helicopter crash a few years later and then a few years after that, his widow was murdered in her home and they never did find the person who did it. Apparently she was tied to a chair when they found her. Murders are very rare in my home town. Pretty sure they did an unsolved mysteries episode on it. Don’t think it was ever solved. Anyway...I digress.
Texted my H this evening to ask him about getting a notarized travel letter so I can take the kids over the border. He said he would be happy to get me one. I told him a bit about our trip and he replied “awesome”. I had talked with him before we separated about taking the kids to San Diego. Not sure he remembers. Must be strange for him though... for me to be going off on a vacation with our kids and his mother. I’ve taken a few trips with our kids solo before though so it’s nothing new I suppose.
Great to have something to look forward to. Hope you find something to look forward to as well. It is a great mood booster. (((HUGS)))
I would love to check out Mission Beach. I think sand dollars are really cool. I had one given to me by my dad’s friend who was a helicopter pilot. One of the perks where my dad worked is that I often got to go on helicopter rides to look for forest fires. One time we landed on a beach to check it out and that is where he found the sand dollar and gave it to me. Sadly, he died in a helicopter crash a few years later and then a few years after that, his widow was murdered in her home and they never did find the person who did it. Apparently she was tied to a chair when they found her. Murders are very rare in my home town. Pretty sure they did an unsolved mysteries episode on it. Don’t think it was ever solved. Anyway...I digress.
Texted my H this evening to ask him about getting a notarized travel letter so I can take the kids over the border. He said he would be happy to get me one. I told him a bit about our trip and he replied “awesome”. I had talked with him before we separated about taking the kids to San Diego. Not sure he remembers. Must be strange for him though... for me to be going off on a vacation with our kids and his mother. I’ve taken a few trips with our kids solo before though so it’s nothing new I suppose.
Great to have something to look forward to. Hope you find something to look forward to as well. It is a great mood booster. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 02:16 PM
Thanks, DV.
If you want to call it something to look forward to, I recently bought some new dress shirts to better reflect my weight loss of the last couple of years, to improve my appearance / overall attractiveness, and boost overall confidence / PMA.
My mom is also visiting SoCal from our native Ohio. She is here to visit me and the boys (that is the stated reason), but she is also here to be moral support and help me with what is going on with W.
D is kind of an epidemic in my family—my parents had an extremely unhappy / quasi-emotionally abusive marriage, and my mom left / separated when I was a junior in college (I was 22). My step-dad also divorced; and my uncle (mom’s brother) also is divorced and does the single dad thing. FWIW, W’s parents are divorced (when she was around 6).
When I was dating / searching for a marriage partner, and when I married W (and even W and I would talk about it earlier in our MR), I would talk about how I didn’t want to end up like my parents (or even my uncle) and get divorced. I so desperately wanted to avoid that—but now here I am.
The dress shirts are my Valentines’ Day gift to me; I want to do something for the boys too.
I’m concerned that things with W will continue to get much worse (and they probably will, but I also trust things will get better in time); I do appreciate your feedback on my thread, but W has threatened to take the kids and move out if I don’t agree to her parenting plan, or come up with something comparable. I have an email out to my L on this and a couple of other things—just waiting on a response, so we’ll see.
((((HUGS)))
If you want to call it something to look forward to, I recently bought some new dress shirts to better reflect my weight loss of the last couple of years, to improve my appearance / overall attractiveness, and boost overall confidence / PMA.
My mom is also visiting SoCal from our native Ohio. She is here to visit me and the boys (that is the stated reason), but she is also here to be moral support and help me with what is going on with W.
D is kind of an epidemic in my family—my parents had an extremely unhappy / quasi-emotionally abusive marriage, and my mom left / separated when I was a junior in college (I was 22). My step-dad also divorced; and my uncle (mom’s brother) also is divorced and does the single dad thing. FWIW, W’s parents are divorced (when she was around 6).
When I was dating / searching for a marriage partner, and when I married W (and even W and I would talk about it earlier in our MR), I would talk about how I didn’t want to end up like my parents (or even my uncle) and get divorced. I so desperately wanted to avoid that—but now here I am.
The dress shirts are my Valentines’ Day gift to me; I want to do something for the boys too.
I’m concerned that things with W will continue to get much worse (and they probably will, but I also trust things will get better in time); I do appreciate your feedback on my thread, but W has threatened to take the kids and move out if I don’t agree to her parenting plan, or come up with something comparable. I have an email out to my L on this and a couple of other things—just waiting on a response, so we’ll see.
((((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 03:38 PM
Girl, you are not a lighthouse. You are a radio telescope!
(((DjV)))
(((DjV)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 05:48 PM
Thanks you guys!
That does help, doesn't it Bo? I, too, have purchased some smaller clothes lately and fit into ones that I never thought I would wear again. It is a good feeling, for sure.
Divorce is, fortunately, not that prevalent in my family. Me and my dad's brother...that's about it. There are a lot more on my H's side and, of course, the most influential being the divorce of his parents when he was a baby. I think that has had a big impact on him...never having lived with his father. He has a lot of anger towards his father. It also gave my H a lot of justification to do what he is doing. "I turned out okay. The kids will be fine...in fact, it may even be good for them." Yep...he actually said that to his mom. The narrative of him turning out okay is debatable. History would say he has not...at least not in his personal life. My H and I talked about it earlier in our marriage as well. I thought we were on the same page. Clearly, we should have been talking about it all along. We should have been talking more period, and nurturing our relationship. We are both guilty of not doing that and it has, unfortunately, got us to this point. I so did not want this kind of life for my kids. My daughter is dealing pretty well but my son tells me he uses his video games to disconnect from all of his stress and sadness over his parents splitting up. That breaks my heart.
Bo... I just don't see how she can do that. For sure get some advice from your lawyer on that before you consider giving in. It seems quite unreasonable.
Awww...thanks Neffer. I don't always feel that way but I am trying. I think this trip will do wonders for my PMA. I still wish it was my H coming with us...we so did not do this kind of thing enough in our MR. But...I am not spending too much time these days stuck in that mind set. It is a cheeseless tunnel, for sure.
I am anticipating a call from my lawyer soon. I think the SA will be ready to sigh sometime this week. Not looking forward to it the way my H is, that's for sure. It all still feels so unnecessary... we could have made it. There really were no major issues between us (before the double life started) other than complacency and poor communication. With a little effort from both of us, we could have turned things around. But the key is that it needs to be both of us and my H has made it clear I am on my own in that regard. So... I am just going to focus on accepting WHAT IS and keep moving forward... one step at a time.
Originally Posted by Bo562
If you want to call it something to look forward to, I recently bought some new dress shirts to better reflect my weight loss of the last couple of years, to improve my appearance / overall attractiveness, and boost overall confidence / PMA.
That does help, doesn't it Bo? I, too, have purchased some smaller clothes lately and fit into ones that I never thought I would wear again. It is a good feeling, for sure.
Originally Posted by Bo562
When I was dating / searching for a marriage partner, and when I married W (and even W and I would talk about it earlier in our MR), I would talk about how I didn’t want to end up like my parents (or even my uncle) and get divorced. I so desperately wanted to avoid that—but now here I am.
Divorce is, fortunately, not that prevalent in my family. Me and my dad's brother...that's about it. There are a lot more on my H's side and, of course, the most influential being the divorce of his parents when he was a baby. I think that has had a big impact on him...never having lived with his father. He has a lot of anger towards his father. It also gave my H a lot of justification to do what he is doing. "I turned out okay. The kids will be fine...in fact, it may even be good for them." Yep...he actually said that to his mom. The narrative of him turning out okay is debatable. History would say he has not...at least not in his personal life. My H and I talked about it earlier in our marriage as well. I thought we were on the same page. Clearly, we should have been talking about it all along. We should have been talking more period, and nurturing our relationship. We are both guilty of not doing that and it has, unfortunately, got us to this point. I so did not want this kind of life for my kids. My daughter is dealing pretty well but my son tells me he uses his video games to disconnect from all of his stress and sadness over his parents splitting up. That breaks my heart.
Originally Posted by Bo562
W has threatened to take the kids and move out if I don’t agree to her parenting plan, or come up with something comparable.
Bo... I just don't see how she can do that. For sure get some advice from your lawyer on that before you consider giving in. It seems quite unreasonable.
Originally Posted by Neffer
Girl, you are not a lighthouse. You are a radio telescope!
Awww...thanks Neffer. I don't always feel that way but I am trying. I think this trip will do wonders for my PMA. I still wish it was my H coming with us...we so did not do this kind of thing enough in our MR. But...I am not spending too much time these days stuck in that mind set. It is a cheeseless tunnel, for sure.
I am anticipating a call from my lawyer soon. I think the SA will be ready to sigh sometime this week. Not looking forward to it the way my H is, that's for sure. It all still feels so unnecessary... we could have made it. There really were no major issues between us (before the double life started) other than complacency and poor communication. With a little effort from both of us, we could have turned things around. But the key is that it needs to be both of us and my H has made it clear I am on my own in that regard. So... I am just going to focus on accepting WHAT IS and keep moving forward... one step at a time.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/13/19 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by DV6
It all still feels so unnecessary... we could have made it. There really were no major issues between us (before the double life started) other than complacency and poor communication. With a little effort from both of us, we could have turned things around. But the key is that it needs to be both of us and my H has made it clear I am on my own in that regard. So... I am just going to focus on accepting WHAT IS and keep moving forward... one step at a time.
A million other members nod in agreement with this...you're doing the only thing you can do DV6...just keep on going!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/14/19 03:01 PM
Happy Valentine’s Day everyone!!! Hoping each and every one of you get to spend time with friends and family and know that regardless of what your S’s do, you ARE loved and you ARE enough. Love and (((HUGS))) to you all!!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/14/19 03:04 PM
Same to you DejaVu! Thanks for spreading the positive cheer!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/15/19 01:52 AM
Happy Valentines Day DV!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 03:33 AM
Happy Birthday to me. Not an eventful day but then I’ve never made much out of my birthday. My H handled all of the pick ups and drop offs and fed our kids dinner so I woudn’t have to worry about it on my birthday which was nice of him. They have a regular activity they go to every Friday so I’m enjoying a quiet evening at home catching up on my tv shows. Picked up some Dairy Queen treats for when they get home. Tomorrow I’m having some friends over for some appies, drinks and conversation. Looking forward to it.
Monday is a stat holiday... Family Day. My H and I talked about spending it together with our kids but I’m not sure he will follow through. I have no expectations either way but it would be nice for our kids to know that we can be in the same room together and be okay.
Twenty-nine sleeps until our San Diego vacation!! Day three there is my 12th wedding anniversary. Glad I will be busy with my kids.
Monday is a stat holiday... Family Day. My H and I talked about spending it together with our kids but I’m not sure he will follow through. I have no expectations either way but it would be nice for our kids to know that we can be in the same room together and be okay.
Twenty-nine sleeps until our San Diego vacation!! Day three there is my 12th wedding anniversary. Glad I will be busy with my kids.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 05:19 AM
Happy birthday! May the coming year lead you further on the process of self-discovery and be full of happiness!
Much love!
Much love!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 05:33 AM
Have a wonderful birthday DV! (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 01:39 PM
Happy Birthday DV!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 04:19 PM
Happy Birthday DejaVu!!! I hope you're having fun with your friends today!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 04:32 PM
Happy Birthday DV !!! hope you have a wonderful day full of laughter and love.
PS - what is an appie?
Hugs
PS - what is an appie?
Hugs
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 05:43 PM
Appetizers
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 06:26 PM
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Joseph.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/16/19 08:59 PM
Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone!!! My kids, bless their hearts, told me yesterday that they think I look younger than their dad even though he is six years younger. I also told a 17 year-old client yesterday that it was my 51st birthday and she couldn’t believe it. She said her mom just turned 40 and looks way older than me.
Had lunch with a good friend of mine yesterday who divorced about 16 years ago from her XH. At the time, she found out that he had been having an affair with the receptionist at his work. She later found out that he had hooked up with a few of the wives in her neighbourhood... one of which she used to run with on a regular basis. So she has no regrets divorcing a serial cheater. She is remarried and both her kids are away at school. She is a manager in the school district that my H works for and said she saw him the other day when she was at his school. She said he looked like a deer in the headlights (what he looks like whenever he sees any of my friends). She said it took everything she had not to call him a dumb@ss...lol. We talked about the concept of love being a feeling or a choice. She told me about a study where the researchers asked Grade 12 students if love was a feeling or a choice. All of them said it is a feeling. They then asked the same question to the same number of 25 year-olds. All of them said it was a choice. Reinforces my view that my H is emotionally on par with the students he teaches...lol.
Looking forward to my get together tonight. A giant step toward my goal of having more female friends.
Had lunch with a good friend of mine yesterday who divorced about 16 years ago from her XH. At the time, she found out that he had been having an affair with the receptionist at his work. She later found out that he had hooked up with a few of the wives in her neighbourhood... one of which she used to run with on a regular basis. So she has no regrets divorcing a serial cheater. She is remarried and both her kids are away at school. She is a manager in the school district that my H works for and said she saw him the other day when she was at his school. She said he looked like a deer in the headlights (what he looks like whenever he sees any of my friends). She said it took everything she had not to call him a dumb@ss...lol. We talked about the concept of love being a feeling or a choice. She told me about a study where the researchers asked Grade 12 students if love was a feeling or a choice. All of them said it is a feeling. They then asked the same question to the same number of 25 year-olds. All of them said it was a choice. Reinforces my view that my H is emotionally on par with the students he teaches...lol.
Looking forward to my get together tonight. A giant step toward my goal of having more female friends.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/17/19 07:12 PM
So my get together didn’t go quite the way I planned. Two friends came and then a third after one of the first two had left. The fourth friend, the one I met a couple of months ago who said for sure she was coming, texted me in the afternoon that he dog was limping so she was going to take him to the vet. An hour later, she texted that he was going in for surgery. Anyway...the poor thing was so “high” when she got him home that evening that she wasn’t able to leave him. I just laughed. I told her it might be destiny for us to never meet again. Despite it not going quite as planned, it was fun to get together with the women who did make it. I am glad I did it and will definitely organize something again soon.
This morning my kids are all over me to have a sleep over with a couple friends. I was looking through my phone for numbers and I came across some old texts from my H from when he had a different number. They were right around the time we were moving in July 2017...about two and a half years into his double life. Looking at them knowing what I know now, it is still confusing. They looked like normal texts between a husband and wife who were working well together. Lots of considerate and respectful texts (please, thanks, etc...), inside jokes and I love you’s. Reading them, you would NEVER guess that the husband was secretly living a double life and resenting his wife for all of that time. I have accepted this is where we are at but man... it is just still so bizarre to me. Don’t think I will ever understand it but I guess that is the gist of the situations where people bomb their spouses and run...pretty difficult to comprehend the incomprehensible.
This morning my kids are all over me to have a sleep over with a couple friends. I was looking through my phone for numbers and I came across some old texts from my H from when he had a different number. They were right around the time we were moving in July 2017...about two and a half years into his double life. Looking at them knowing what I know now, it is still confusing. They looked like normal texts between a husband and wife who were working well together. Lots of considerate and respectful texts (please, thanks, etc...), inside jokes and I love you’s. Reading them, you would NEVER guess that the husband was secretly living a double life and resenting his wife for all of that time. I have accepted this is where we are at but man... it is just still so bizarre to me. Don’t think I will ever understand it but I guess that is the gist of the situations where people bomb their spouses and run...pretty difficult to comprehend the incomprehensible.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/17/19 07:40 PM
You make me remember my double life days...yes, I had that ability too...really dissapointing...but all behaviors have their costs. Sooner or later we must face our own actions.
So don´t try to comprehend the incomprehensible. It´s past now, you are light years forward from then.
(((((((((Happy Birthday DjV)))))))))
So don´t try to comprehend the incomprehensible. It´s past now, you are light years forward from then.
(((((((((Happy Birthday DjV)))))))))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/18/19 03:40 AM
Sorry if I brought up disappointing memories Neffer. I am curious about your experience though. You seem like a good person... I think underneath all of his crazy behaviour, my H is too... so how does a good person justify behaviour like that? I cannot imagine living my life that way. Is it a personality thing? My H is a very private person. He doesn’t talk much about his emotions or internal experience to anyone whereas I could tell my life story to a perfect stranger. So when I am struggling with something, I would absolutely seek out a few trusted people to talk things over with. My H, on the other hand, has one or two people he MIGHT talk to. Having people challenge your perception of things is important, I think, as it often stops problems from getting too big. When you were in your worst mindset during your WAS days, were there people you talked to or did you mostly just rely on your own thinking to guide your choices? I realize that I will probably never completely understand but I am interested in your views if you are okay with sharing them with me. Also...one last question... what was the catalyst for you facing your own actions? My apologies if you have already answered these questions on other threads. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/18/19 06:46 PM
Happy belated birthday DV.
The double life is a crazy one. The day I caught W lying to me...earlier that day she was telling me she loved me. Up to that point I could tell things were off but we still had certain routines like we made time for us on Friday’s before picking up the kids if you know what I mean or on other days we kept it spontaneous. I knew we lacked intimacy and my approach was way off. I tried to pursue to get her to talk to me.
Your questions to neffer made me think of a video I saw where the speaker asked is the cheating spouse a bad person making a bad mistake or a good person making a bad mistake? One you might consider D, but the other you can probably save.
The double life is a crazy one. The day I caught W lying to me...earlier that day she was telling me she loved me. Up to that point I could tell things were off but we still had certain routines like we made time for us on Friday’s before picking up the kids if you know what I mean or on other days we kept it spontaneous. I knew we lacked intimacy and my approach was way off. I tried to pursue to get her to talk to me.
Your questions to neffer made me think of a video I saw where the speaker asked is the cheating spouse a bad person making a bad mistake or a good person making a bad mistake? One you might consider D, but the other you can probably save.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/18/19 08:31 PM
Selfishness. That’s the trigger of some behaviors. I felt the need to protect OW and her kid. While I was leaving W and S. Crazy, right?.
The rest is there in my sitch. There was a wayward atmosphere where I was working....my work mates and OW were a team...so it was hard to get any other view of the sitch at that time. I let things happen so it was my entire responsibility.
Being protected while a child was one of my deficits so I was very conflicted at that time. I chose who to love...my family. I needed to protect them first. And here I am.
You just keep shining as usual. Let see what comes to the light.
Lot of hugs girl!
(((DjV)))
The rest is there in my sitch. There was a wayward atmosphere where I was working....my work mates and OW were a team...so it was hard to get any other view of the sitch at that time. I let things happen so it was my entire responsibility.
Being protected while a child was one of my deficits so I was very conflicted at that time. I chose who to love...my family. I needed to protect them first. And here I am.
You just keep shining as usual. Let see what comes to the light.
Lot of hugs girl!
(((DjV)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/18/19 11:56 PM
Thanks Neffer. My H is guilty of selfishness for sure. There is also still the question of whether his “roommate” is an OW or not. Even if they are not together, I still see her in that light. The fact is...he is living with a woman and her two teenagers and not his wife and his own children. And everything he has told me about her tells me he sees her as a “damsel in distress” and given what he has said about the father of her children, my H would look like a knight in shining armour to her...especially if he has told her a bunch of lies about himself and our marriage. It is strange though... I’m not jealous of her in the least. If she is an OW, I know my H is just using her to escape his life and himself.
My H and I were supposed to spend today (Family Day in Canada) with our kids. Predictably he bailed. Says he has the flu. Whether he does or not, who knows. Honestly, I wasn’t sure I wanted to spend the day with him anyway so I wasn’t disappointed. I wasn’t anything TBH. I had zero expectations as I had predicted he woudn’t follow through anyway. A few months ago, I would have been crushed but TBH, I’m starting to see my H the way a lot of other people see him. A man who blew up his family and their finances to try to relive his 20s. Sad.
My H and I were supposed to spend today (Family Day in Canada) with our kids. Predictably he bailed. Says he has the flu. Whether he does or not, who knows. Honestly, I wasn’t sure I wanted to spend the day with him anyway so I wasn’t disappointed. I wasn’t anything TBH. I had zero expectations as I had predicted he woudn’t follow through anyway. A few months ago, I would have been crushed but TBH, I’m starting to see my H the way a lot of other people see him. A man who blew up his family and their finances to try to relive his 20s. Sad.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 02:23 AM
Hello DV
Do you remember what you hoped for those months ago?
Detachment and indifference - with understanding and compassion.
Look how far you’ve come. Well done!
Keep moving forward. You’ve so got this.
DnJ
Do you remember what you hoped for those months ago?
Detachment and indifference - with understanding and compassion.
Look how far you’ve come. Well done!
Keep moving forward. You’ve so got this.
DnJ
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 08:08 AM
Thanks DnJ. I do feel like I have come a long way.
I was at pool tonight and one of my friends learned that my H had moved out. First thing he asked is, “Who’s he shacking up with?” I said, “no one as far as I know”. He says, “No, he’s a man. Men don’t move out unless they have someone to shack up with.” I guess the one thing I can’t figure out is if that is the case and his “roommate” is in actuality the OW, why wouldn’t he just tell me?” Divorces in BC are no fault so it wouldn’t have a bearing on our SA. And I’ve given him numerous opportunities to fess up but he just keeps telling me she is a roommate/friend and there is nothing going on. But if that isn’t true, how does he think it won’t come out at some point? He keeps talking about buying a house and moving out of his rental and presumably away from her. So if he does and she goes with him, does he think no one will notice? Does he think it won’t matter by then? Honestly, it may not matter to me at that point but it will matter to his mom. She won’t see it as him just cheating on me, she will see it as him cheating on his family.
When he was thinking about coming home and he texted me that he had dug a deep hole that he didn’t think he could climb out of, is that what he was talking about? Did he think that if he broke up with her and came home and I found out, he would be stuck with nowhere to go? The stupid thing is that on the very first night I found out about this, we ALL thought he was having an affair. He could have easily just admitted it then but he didn’t. And if he is lying, are our children being co-opted into the lie? They are 11, not four, and they are both bright kids. They do not talk about their time with their dad at all. Is that because they know they are keeping a secret for him? If there is one thing that I would be mad about, it would be that. But then again, my H has talked about just wanting to be by himself and the other night, he told me he spends a lot of time alone and he looked like he was genuinely thinking about that when he said it.
So.. I just took one of my emergency Ativan cause, as you can probably tell, my friend’s comments sent my thoughts down a whole bunch of roads that I haven’t gone down in awhile and now my brain is running through all the different things my H has told me and I just want to go to sleep...lol. Don’t worry though... not a backslide on detachment. I just have this thing about knowing the truth...even if it is hurtful, I think it is still better to know it. Anyway, I choose not to worry about it. This is one particular truth he will not be able to hide forever if that is what he is doing. Time will tell.
NIght all. (((HUGS)))
I was at pool tonight and one of my friends learned that my H had moved out. First thing he asked is, “Who’s he shacking up with?” I said, “no one as far as I know”. He says, “No, he’s a man. Men don’t move out unless they have someone to shack up with.” I guess the one thing I can’t figure out is if that is the case and his “roommate” is in actuality the OW, why wouldn’t he just tell me?” Divorces in BC are no fault so it wouldn’t have a bearing on our SA. And I’ve given him numerous opportunities to fess up but he just keeps telling me she is a roommate/friend and there is nothing going on. But if that isn’t true, how does he think it won’t come out at some point? He keeps talking about buying a house and moving out of his rental and presumably away from her. So if he does and she goes with him, does he think no one will notice? Does he think it won’t matter by then? Honestly, it may not matter to me at that point but it will matter to his mom. She won’t see it as him just cheating on me, she will see it as him cheating on his family.
When he was thinking about coming home and he texted me that he had dug a deep hole that he didn’t think he could climb out of, is that what he was talking about? Did he think that if he broke up with her and came home and I found out, he would be stuck with nowhere to go? The stupid thing is that on the very first night I found out about this, we ALL thought he was having an affair. He could have easily just admitted it then but he didn’t. And if he is lying, are our children being co-opted into the lie? They are 11, not four, and they are both bright kids. They do not talk about their time with their dad at all. Is that because they know they are keeping a secret for him? If there is one thing that I would be mad about, it would be that. But then again, my H has talked about just wanting to be by himself and the other night, he told me he spends a lot of time alone and he looked like he was genuinely thinking about that when he said it.
So.. I just took one of my emergency Ativan cause, as you can probably tell, my friend’s comments sent my thoughts down a whole bunch of roads that I haven’t gone down in awhile and now my brain is running through all the different things my H has told me and I just want to go to sleep...lol. Don’t worry though... not a backslide on detachment. I just have this thing about knowing the truth...even if it is hurtful, I think it is still better to know it. Anyway, I choose not to worry about it. This is one particular truth he will not be able to hide forever if that is what he is doing. Time will tell.
NIght all. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 08:24 AM
OH...and Neffer... good for you for making the right choice and choosing to love your W and your S. I am sure it was really, really difficult to face everything. I would not be surprised to find out that your situation was a lot like my H’s. He seems very protective of his “roommate” and her kids, especially her son. Unfortunately he still thinks that love is a feeling and not a choice. It may be that in the beginning but once the hormones have settled (studies shows it lasts two years max if you live together), it becomes a choice and takes effort to maintain. Your W and S are very lucky you figured that out in time to save your MR. You are very lucky as well. Having someone to share the trials and tribulations that life inevitably produces is a gift. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 01:35 PM
Thank you girl. I´m very aware of that. Part of my heart longs for OW...the need to give her and her son protection too. But I can´t. I hope she finds a good man to start a family. She hasn´t had that in her life. I´m far away from that, I´m sorry for her but I can´t be her savior... I know time heals the wounds...
DjV, take into account what your H does, not what he says...it will help with your detaching tides ;-)
Keep shining there, as usual.
(((((((((((((((((((DjV))))))))))))))))))
DjV, take into account what your H does, not what he says...it will help with your detaching tides ;-)
Keep shining there, as usual.
(((((((((((((((((((DjV))))))))))))))))))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 03:35 PM
Thanks Neffer. So...reading between the lines... you think my H is still lying about who this woman is to him. I expect anyone on the outside of this situation feels the same way. What is that saying?? If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, chances are it’s a duck? Anyway...that was way too much mental time wasted last night on my H. I choose not to wonder about it anymore. It is what it is and if she moves in with him when he buys a place, we will all have our answers.
Family Day turned out pretty well with my kids. I made them pancakes when they got up and some banana bread for their lunches. We then took our dog for a walk to the dog park and back home. More baking... this time oatmeal chocolate chip cookies that they have been bugging me to make for ages. They were happy campers. I sure love those little monkeys.
Family Day turned out pretty well with my kids. I made them pancakes when they got up and some banana bread for their lunches. We then took our dog for a walk to the dog park and back home. More baking... this time oatmeal chocolate chip cookies that they have been bugging me to make for ages. They were happy campers. I sure love those little monkeys.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
So...reading between the lines...
Not quite subtle I know...
You need to be applying the "believe nothing that they say..." to protect yourself. There´s no need to try to figure out what´s unfathomable.
You are an experienced DBer. It´s ok to take a step back into the expectation department but I keep your last paragraph:
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Family Day turned out pretty well with my kids. I made them pancakes when they got up and some banana bread for their lunches. We then took our dog for a walk to the dog park and back home. More baking... this time oatmeal chocolate chip cookies that they have been bugging me to make for ages. They were happy campers. I sure love those little monkeys.
And there goes DjV.
:-)
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 05:35 PM
I am a complete outsider, but I have always had the impression that the woman is OW. I also agree that men do not take this route without OW. It would certainly explain a lot of the mysteries over the years. DV, what would that change for you if you could verify OW or multiple OW? I am asking because for me, I did not want any family time with my H when I knew there was OW in the picture. Had we just had a separation with mutual respect, perhaps I would have felt differently. I am not sure. I allowed family time in the beginning, but I realized it was only in hopes of him coming back. Then he would leave our family and go to OW. It made me feel sick. I realized I was allowing the ultimate cake eating and cut that off. Then over time, I started to allow more detachment.
Neffer, I will be honest, I respect what you are doing a lot. But if you were my H, and you still had such strong feelings for X-OW, I would not be able to be with you. It has been hard enough as it is! I am surpised your W can handle that, or does she not know? Sorry to hijack! he hardest part for me in my sitch, is the betrayal of the OW, and even with him being over her, it is still hard!
Blu
Neffer, I will be honest, I respect what you are doing a lot. But if you were my H, and you still had such strong feelings for X-OW, I would not be able to be with you. It has been hard enough as it is! I am surpised your W can handle that, or does she not know? Sorry to hijack! he hardest part for me in my sitch, is the betrayal of the OW, and even with him being over her, it is still hard!
Blu
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/19/19 07:05 PM
Thanks for dropping by Blu.
TBH, I'm not sure it would change much for me if I verified that she is a definite OW or that there were others. It would probably just tell me that my H, despite his claims to the contrary, hasn't changed a bit and that he is still lying to himself and to everyone who cares about him including the OW. We don't do family time now anyway so I'm not worried about cake eating. Anyway... when he buys his new house and moves out and the kids have their first visit there, we will have our answer. If she is living with him, we will know he has been lying all along. At that point, I will definitely stop by his place to introduce myself and let her know that if she is interested in the truth of what went on, I'd be happy to fill her in.
No worries on the hijack. Totally fine with me.
TBH, I'm not sure it would change much for me if I verified that she is a definite OW or that there were others. It would probably just tell me that my H, despite his claims to the contrary, hasn't changed a bit and that he is still lying to himself and to everyone who cares about him including the OW. We don't do family time now anyway so I'm not worried about cake eating. Anyway... when he buys his new house and moves out and the kids have their first visit there, we will have our answer. If she is living with him, we will know he has been lying all along. At that point, I will definitely stop by his place to introduce myself and let her know that if she is interested in the truth of what went on, I'd be happy to fill her in.
No worries on the hijack. Totally fine with me.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 02:50 AM
Sometimes I am just too impulsive. My H texted me for a copy of our marriage license. I have no idea where it is and told him so. And then I texted that I didn’t think I needed to keep track of it because I actually meant my vows. I did, however, resist the urge to tell him that he, on the other hand, should have made numerous copies of it in anticipation of this inevitable ending. Okay... I know... 2x4. Honestly, though, does he seriously expect me to go looking for? This is not my divorce, it is his. Anyway....fell of the high road there for a second... getting back on it. :
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 03:27 AM
Join the club Deja! After hashing things out here, and with a few friends, I'm ready to get back on my wagon.
Hugs
Hugs
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 04:06 AM
Ugh... just went downstairs to try to see if I could find the marriage license. Nope. But I did find souvenirs from our honeymoon and a love letter my H wrote to me about how much he loves me...”so much that it takes my breath away” and how he will always be a strong shoulder to cry on and he is not the type of guy to run at the first sign of trouble. It just went on and on... it was a beautiful letter. And then I found the words of our wedding song written out. Seriously!?!? I was having a decent day!!!!!! Now I want to punch him for being such a HUGE liar and making me believe in him. I just texted him to tell him I couldn’t find it and am done looking so he can look for it himself. I am done with the painful trips down memory lane.
Thanks Grace. I told myself I wasn’t going to do anything impulsive anymore but sometimes it is just too painful. Glad to hear you are ready to get back on your wagon. I was fully on mine until my H reminded me that he is still determined to D. I knew that but honestly...stop texting me to help you finish blowing up our marriage. He really is clueless sometimes.
(((HUGS))) to you too!!!
Thanks Grace. I told myself I wasn’t going to do anything impulsive anymore but sometimes it is just too painful. Glad to hear you are ready to get back on your wagon. I was fully on mine until my H reminded me that he is still determined to D. I knew that but honestly...stop texting me to help you finish blowing up our marriage. He really is clueless sometimes.
(((HUGS))) to you too!!!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 06:44 AM
Well...a fitting end to a crappy night. Two crying children... my son because he is sad about the “you know mom... dad...the divorce.” He says he thinks about it when he isn’t busy and that he misses “the old days” when we were all together. I asked him if he ever talks to Dad about his feelings and he tells me that he doesn’t because he doesn’t feel as safe with him. He then said that he hasn’t been good at keeping Dad’s secrets so he doesn’t think Dad would be good at keeping his. Sigh... I then tell him that there are no secrets that he should ever have to keep for either of his parents. He said he knows and then looked at his sister and said, “pretty sure [name of D11] has at least one.” She just glared at him so I have no idea what that is about and I didn’t ask. I just told her that she can always come to me if she is worried or upset about anything and doesn’t need to worry about my feelings.
My daughter’s issues are tougher to figure out. She came into my room later and needed to talk. Lots of tears. Not a lot made sense. The confusion of being an 11 year-old girl with a family in flux and a brother who she loves one minute and can’t stand the next. Such fluctuating emotions. My H, of course, oblivious... off living with someone else’s children. And he has convinced himself he is doing the right thing. Any anger I still feel toward him definitely surfaces when I see my children hurting.
That letter I found was really hard to read. He’s gone from “I love you so much it takes my breath away” to “I like you as a friend.” Reading it was surreal, to say the least. He even talked about being a strong person who will work hard to keep me happy and safe”. Um...he didn’t even want to mow the lawn. I should have known. He was so crazy, over the top, head over heels in love with me that there was just nowhere else to go but down. Insert financial problems, parenting challenges, and daily stresses and how quickly love turns to resentment and deceit. Anyway...enough thinking for tonight. A bit of a setback on the detachment journey but I will recover. (((HUGS))) to all.
My daughter’s issues are tougher to figure out. She came into my room later and needed to talk. Lots of tears. Not a lot made sense. The confusion of being an 11 year-old girl with a family in flux and a brother who she loves one minute and can’t stand the next. Such fluctuating emotions. My H, of course, oblivious... off living with someone else’s children. And he has convinced himself he is doing the right thing. Any anger I still feel toward him definitely surfaces when I see my children hurting.
That letter I found was really hard to read. He’s gone from “I love you so much it takes my breath away” to “I like you as a friend.” Reading it was surreal, to say the least. He even talked about being a strong person who will work hard to keep me happy and safe”. Um...he didn’t even want to mow the lawn. I should have known. He was so crazy, over the top, head over heels in love with me that there was just nowhere else to go but down. Insert financial problems, parenting challenges, and daily stresses and how quickly love turns to resentment and deceit. Anyway...enough thinking for tonight. A bit of a setback on the detachment journey but I will recover. (((HUGS))) to all.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Ugh... just went downstairs to try to see if I could find the marriage license. Nope. But I did find souvenirs from our honeymoon and a love letter my H wrote to me about how much he loves me...”so much that it takes my breath away” and how he will always be a strong shoulder to cry on and he is not the type of guy to run at the first sign of trouble. It just went on and on... it was a beautiful letter. And then I found the words of our wedding song written out. Seriously!?!? I was having a decent day!!!!!! Now I want to punch him for being such a HUGE liar and making me believe in him.
DV, very sorry you are hurting. I doubt he was lying though, he really did mean it. The problem is aliens from the planet Crouton 7 secretly snuck in while you were sleeping, stopped time and took your H to their ship. While there they zapped him with a "Personality Removal Ray" until he was an empty shell, then slipped a new alien personality into his old body. Then they put him back in your bed and started time again. So you look at him and see your old H, but inside is a weird alien creature that doesn't behave like your old H. So when you find this old stuff then be nostalgic over the H you once had. But don't try and identify it with the alien version of him.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 02:25 PM
(((DV)))
AnotherStander is correct. H wasn’t lying.
He is an empty shell at the moment.
DnJ
AnotherStander is correct. H wasn’t lying.
He is an empty shell at the moment.
DnJ
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 02:29 PM
Those sneaky aliens , they did the same thing to my w
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 03:09 PM
Thanks AS, DnJ & Bubbs.
I know my H meant what he wrote at the time. It was just really sad to read how “all in” he was then and reconcile that with his feelings, or lack thereof, now. That he is so sure his feelings for me are gone that he is willing to throw away everything we have built to “save” himself... from me... the person who has loved him without question, gave birth to his children and took care of everything while he was out chasing...what? I have actually been doing really well lately so yesterday was hard to take on a lot of levels. And then the crying kids...both saying they would just prefer to stay “home”...sad about the split...and yet so used to not having their dad around. Truth is I’ve been dealing with this stuff on my own for a long time but there was always an end to it in my mind. When my H would get “better” and come home. Now there is no end date. He is not coming home. I know this. I accept it. I know that the person he is now is not the person who wrote those letters. That person has, in a sense, died and I guess I am still grieving his passing. Anyway...time to pick myself back up and limit the trips down memory lane. (((HUGS))) to all.
I know my H meant what he wrote at the time. It was just really sad to read how “all in” he was then and reconcile that with his feelings, or lack thereof, now. That he is so sure his feelings for me are gone that he is willing to throw away everything we have built to “save” himself... from me... the person who has loved him without question, gave birth to his children and took care of everything while he was out chasing...what? I have actually been doing really well lately so yesterday was hard to take on a lot of levels. And then the crying kids...both saying they would just prefer to stay “home”...sad about the split...and yet so used to not having their dad around. Truth is I’ve been dealing with this stuff on my own for a long time but there was always an end to it in my mind. When my H would get “better” and come home. Now there is no end date. He is not coming home. I know this. I accept it. I know that the person he is now is not the person who wrote those letters. That person has, in a sense, died and I guess I am still grieving his passing. Anyway...time to pick myself back up and limit the trips down memory lane. (((HUGS))) to all.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by BluWave
Neffer, I will be honest, I respect what you are doing a lot. But if you were my H, and you still had such strong feelings for X-OW, I would not be able to be with you. It has been hard enough as it is! I am surpised your W can handle that, or does she not know? Sorry to hijack! he hardest part for me in my sitch, is the betrayal of the OW, and even with him being over her, it is still hard!
Blu
I get what you are saying Blu. My feelings for X-OW are fantasy fueled, and that´s all. I´ve been N/C with her so I know it´s my mind playing games that I don´t want to play. I know it´s hard for the other side and I´m sorry. But I wont lie either. I was just trying to show DjV that WWs minds are sometimes really crushed.
Sorry for the hijack DjV
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/20/19 11:39 PM
No apologies needed. Just had a long conversation with my SD19's mother. She called me to find out how I was doing and to "encourage" me to stay in touch with her daughter to reassure her that she is still important to me. She was apparently encouraging SD!( to contact her dad (my H) but she doesn't want to. She says there is nothing to say and she doesn't think he cares about her and her life anyway...just wants to talk about his and she isn't interested in it as she doesn't respect anything he is doing or has done. She is on Team DV even though I have consistently told her that I don't want her to pick sides and have always tried to support both of them to have a relationship. I cannot ask her to deny her own experience, however, and he has been too self-focused these past four years to pay much attention to what she is thinking and feeling. It s#cks. They had made great gains on our trip to Mexico but those are lost now. He has recreated his relationship with his dad. Our kids are his half siblings and she is him. It is awful how much he has turned into his dad when that is the one person he swore he would never be like. Sadly, however, I think his dad is more honest than he is.
Still trying to shake the blues today. Had a text discussion with my H regarding our kids starting to butt heads with each other. He suggested we split them up for a few days to show them that they would miss each other. I didn't agree to it but said I would consider it. Didn't want to bring up the reality is that both of them would want to stay with me so would have to force one of them to go with him. He is so oblivious to their inner worlds. Thinks they haven't really noticed that he is living with another family... or bizarrely thinks that they think it is okay. The amount of mental Olympics one would have to do to think that way is beyond comprehension to me. I so misjudged his character despite many signs that he is not who he pretends to be. I wish this was a new thing. I really do but he was like this with his first W and with the mother of his SD. He told me it was a casual friendship and a one-night drunken mistake on his part. She tells me they "dated" for several months and today told me that he had taken her to his house twice to walk their dogs. I didn't have the heart to tell her that those dogs belonged to wife #1 so even though they weren't married at the time, she must have been living there. He just chose to take her there when he new his mom and his gf would not be home. SD's mom did tell me that she had chalked up his behaviour back then to being "young and immature" but given what has happened between him and I, it may be just who he is. I SO do not hope this is hereditary. I want a better life for my kids.
Anyway... a lot of thinking about my H that I thought I was done with. My friend is coming for a visit this weekend. Should take my mind off of things.
Still trying to shake the blues today. Had a text discussion with my H regarding our kids starting to butt heads with each other. He suggested we split them up for a few days to show them that they would miss each other. I didn't agree to it but said I would consider it. Didn't want to bring up the reality is that both of them would want to stay with me so would have to force one of them to go with him. He is so oblivious to their inner worlds. Thinks they haven't really noticed that he is living with another family... or bizarrely thinks that they think it is okay. The amount of mental Olympics one would have to do to think that way is beyond comprehension to me. I so misjudged his character despite many signs that he is not who he pretends to be. I wish this was a new thing. I really do but he was like this with his first W and with the mother of his SD. He told me it was a casual friendship and a one-night drunken mistake on his part. She tells me they "dated" for several months and today told me that he had taken her to his house twice to walk their dogs. I didn't have the heart to tell her that those dogs belonged to wife #1 so even though they weren't married at the time, she must have been living there. He just chose to take her there when he new his mom and his gf would not be home. SD's mom did tell me that she had chalked up his behaviour back then to being "young and immature" but given what has happened between him and I, it may be just who he is. I SO do not hope this is hereditary. I want a better life for my kids.
Anyway... a lot of thinking about my H that I thought I was done with. My friend is coming for a visit this weekend. Should take my mind off of things.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 12:06 AM
DV,
Your goal should be to work with your kids so they dont become like your H. Maybe introduce strong male role models in their lives.... maybe your BIL? Especially men (preferably family figures) your son can learn to emulate that are not your H.
Your goal should be to work with your kids so they dont become like your H. Maybe introduce strong male role models in their lives.... maybe your BIL? Especially men (preferably family figures) your son can learn to emulate that are not your H.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 12:43 AM
DV,
Sorry to hear you all are going through this. Be strong DV. In time this will temper you, and it may be rough now but it will get better for you and the kids.
I agree with TF. Boys need good role models, men need good male friends. It never stops nor is it ever too early to begin.
I liked hearing about SD mom calling you and SD is team DV. Strengthen the bonds that you can. Shift that focus off your H and pour yourself into the children. They will not forget that. They are your legacy. You will be okay and you will make it. Hugs to you and the kids.
Sorry to hear you all are going through this. Be strong DV. In time this will temper you, and it may be rough now but it will get better for you and the kids.
I agree with TF. Boys need good role models, men need good male friends. It never stops nor is it ever too early to begin.
I liked hearing about SD mom calling you and SD is team DV. Strengthen the bonds that you can. Shift that focus off your H and pour yourself into the children. They will not forget that. They are your legacy. You will be okay and you will make it. Hugs to you and the kids.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 04:33 AM
Thanks guys. I am okay. Today was an interesting day and I probably went against all DB rules only part of me thinks that is okay as my goals are not the same now as they were when all this started and I was still coming to terms with things. I got into a text conversation about co-parenting and the need for me to be able to trust him and it kind of went on from there. Hard to describe so I will just write what I wrote...
Me: H. I am not accusing you of willfully doing anything [to cause our kids to keep secrets for him] but actions have consequences. They have seen you lie to me. I have seen you tell people things that I have personally known is not true. I have heard you tell four different versions of the same story. Sometimes I don’t even think you know you are doing it. My entire life with you is in question. The cruise you took in 2016. Your trip to England for ________ Publishing. Your barometric chamber treatments. The list is a mile long. I have no idea if you even liked me let alone loved me. I think you are in love with the idea of love and you expect it to fill a hole in you that is impossible for someone to fill long term. So you can tell me you are trying to be a good person and a good father. I want to believe that is true. Maybe if you sat down with me and owned up to your top 100 lies, I might have some confidence in you. But so far, every question I’ve had has been answered with a question, or an accusation or a misdirection designed to make me look like the bad guy and you like the victim. Coparenting with someone like you is a challenge, to say the least. Sorry. That’s just how it is.
No response. An hour later... I know.... impulsive...
M: Predictably...the second I mention something about being honest, you disappear. Just once H... just once... take a deep breath and tell the truth. What does it matter? You got what you wanted so why not just be honest? Back up your words with actions. It would be a relief, I’m sure. Do you think it is going to make things worse? Do you think I am going to do a complete personality change and try to retaliate in some way? Not in my nature. I just want to know how much of my relationship with you was a fabrication and I think you owe me that.
For instance, I still think you aren’t being honest about why you want the May 1st separation date. You don’t need that to date people. I think you’ve told someone that is when we separated and you need it on paper to prove it. It’s probably [roommate]. I am still struggling with that btw. Everything in me says she is an affair but the only thing that gives me pause is that you told me she has pancreatic cancer, the disease that killed my dad and despite everything, I still have such a hard time believing you would make something like that up knowing that is how I lost my dad. Even you would not go there, right?
Anyway...I still plan on stopping by and introducing myself [to roommate] cause I know you won’t and I need to know who is hanging out with my kids. So if there is something I should know, you better tell me soon.
30 minutes later...
H: I will give you what you want - none of it is as exciting as you think - and not over text - I’m not going to do it tonight.
M: Only if it is the truth. I’m not interested in more lies.
H: Yep.
M: And I am still meeting [roommate]
H: You can - yep
M: I don’t need excitement H. Just honesty.
H: I know.
M: That will go a long way. Thank you.
So... one last convo before the separation agreement is signed. I am glad he wants to do it face-to-face and that hopefully he will give me some truthful answers. My goal is for us to be good co-parents but I don’t think that will happen with sooooo many lies between us. I am hoping our meeting will help clear some things up and make that possible. I continue to believe that he is not a BAD guy... just really screwed up so I am hoping, if he really plans to lay it all out, that this will be as freeing for him as will be for me. I do not have any illusions that there will be anything more than a co-parent relationship between us in the future so I am fine with this one last talk. I think it will actually help me with my detachment and I think it will give me some peace. Love and (((HUGS))) to all!!!
Me: H. I am not accusing you of willfully doing anything [to cause our kids to keep secrets for him] but actions have consequences. They have seen you lie to me. I have seen you tell people things that I have personally known is not true. I have heard you tell four different versions of the same story. Sometimes I don’t even think you know you are doing it. My entire life with you is in question. The cruise you took in 2016. Your trip to England for ________ Publishing. Your barometric chamber treatments. The list is a mile long. I have no idea if you even liked me let alone loved me. I think you are in love with the idea of love and you expect it to fill a hole in you that is impossible for someone to fill long term. So you can tell me you are trying to be a good person and a good father. I want to believe that is true. Maybe if you sat down with me and owned up to your top 100 lies, I might have some confidence in you. But so far, every question I’ve had has been answered with a question, or an accusation or a misdirection designed to make me look like the bad guy and you like the victim. Coparenting with someone like you is a challenge, to say the least. Sorry. That’s just how it is.
No response. An hour later... I know.... impulsive...
M: Predictably...the second I mention something about being honest, you disappear. Just once H... just once... take a deep breath and tell the truth. What does it matter? You got what you wanted so why not just be honest? Back up your words with actions. It would be a relief, I’m sure. Do you think it is going to make things worse? Do you think I am going to do a complete personality change and try to retaliate in some way? Not in my nature. I just want to know how much of my relationship with you was a fabrication and I think you owe me that.
For instance, I still think you aren’t being honest about why you want the May 1st separation date. You don’t need that to date people. I think you’ve told someone that is when we separated and you need it on paper to prove it. It’s probably [roommate]. I am still struggling with that btw. Everything in me says she is an affair but the only thing that gives me pause is that you told me she has pancreatic cancer, the disease that killed my dad and despite everything, I still have such a hard time believing you would make something like that up knowing that is how I lost my dad. Even you would not go there, right?
Anyway...I still plan on stopping by and introducing myself [to roommate] cause I know you won’t and I need to know who is hanging out with my kids. So if there is something I should know, you better tell me soon.
30 minutes later...
H: I will give you what you want - none of it is as exciting as you think - and not over text - I’m not going to do it tonight.
M: Only if it is the truth. I’m not interested in more lies.
H: Yep.
M: And I am still meeting [roommate]
H: You can - yep
M: I don’t need excitement H. Just honesty.
H: I know.
M: That will go a long way. Thank you.
So... one last convo before the separation agreement is signed. I am glad he wants to do it face-to-face and that hopefully he will give me some truthful answers. My goal is for us to be good co-parents but I don’t think that will happen with sooooo many lies between us. I am hoping our meeting will help clear some things up and make that possible. I continue to believe that he is not a BAD guy... just really screwed up so I am hoping, if he really plans to lay it all out, that this will be as freeing for him as will be for me. I do not have any illusions that there will be anything more than a co-parent relationship between us in the future so I am fine with this one last talk. I think it will actually help me with my detachment and I think it will give me some peace. Love and (((HUGS))) to all!!!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 05:01 AM
Hello DV
I must say, I am kind of impressed. That text is all you; well said, well stated, and well thought out. It is probably to much for his Swiss cheese mind but so what, a lot of that is for you and letting go.
We all take different paths, and for what it is worth, you needed to do this. I hope he follows through on the face to face conversation.
DnJ
I must say, I am kind of impressed. That text is all you; well said, well stated, and well thought out. It is probably to much for his Swiss cheese mind but so what, a lot of that is for you and letting go.
We all take different paths, and for what it is worth, you needed to do this. I hope he follows through on the face to face conversation.
DnJ
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 05:45 AM
((DV))
I hope you get honesty from him and that it will bring you some small peace.
I hope you get honesty from him and that it will bring you some small peace.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 06:56 AM
Thank you DnJ and Adam. I am really hopeful he means it. I think he realizes, on some level, that he has to do this. I do believe he loves our kids and that wants to work cooperatively with me. I know he knows he owes me more than what he has given me by way of an explanation. I also know there are still many lies between us...some recent...some not so recent. I don’t need to “understand”, persay, because I don’t think he understands himself so how can he explain it to me. I just need to hear him say something that makes sense...that is believable. I think it will be good for him...and it will be good for us. The “us” that used to be is long gone... I get that finally.... but this is the start of a new “us”...two people who love their kids and are working together to support them as best they could. I fully believe he will look back on this one day with regret but I suspect my feelings for him in that respect will be long over. Even now...they are fading. It’s funny how that happens.
I had a looonnnng text exchange with my ex-husband tonight. Man, everyone needs an ex-husband like mine...lol. We reminisced about some funny memories. He told me he and his best friend were watching old videos and his friend’s teenage daughter thought I was “stunningly gorgeous”. I said “really?” and he said my eyes are amazing and that I am still really striking. Awww...shucks...that is just what a woman who has recently been openly rejected by her husband needs to hear...lol. My ex is my biggest cheerleader and fan. He says I taught him a lot and still continue to teach him with how I am handling everything. He, too, hopes my H finds the courage to tell me the truth. He also, as always, expressed his dismay that he had his head up his @ss back then. I think he definitely appreciates me more now than he did then. Maturity and growth...eventually leads to figuring out what is important in life. Back then I was the quintessential “girl next door” and not exciting enough for my H who was totally focused on dating women who were risky or stereotypically beautiful...one step off from a stripper kind of girls. When we met, I had a HUGE crush on him but he was lukewarm on me. But he would spend at least two nights a week hanging out with me and making me dinner, etc... but never tried to kiss me or anything. His friends constantly told me that he liked me...he just didn’t know it. Then, when I had given up all hope and he found out that I was thinking about getting back together with my old boyfriend, he completely changed his tune and kissed me the night before I was leaving to go back home for a visit. Ruined my ex’s weekend, that’s for sure. Anyway...very different beginning than with my current H who wrote to me that I had given him back his will to live after our second or third date. I thought that was the key to lasting love...that both people are instantly head over heels. I don’t feel that way anymore. My ex and I had the foundation of trust and friendship. He made some mistakes in our MR, as did I, but he would have never betrayed me to the level that my H has. Not in a million years. It has been 28 years since my ex and I first met and he probably loves me more now than he did then... at least he appreciates the qualities in me that seemed so boring back then...honesty, loyalty, stability, etc... the kind of person you can be married to for 50 years. So I guess that begs the question... why am I facing my second divorce?
This is gonna sound crazy cause I still have my up and down days and days when I miss my H...my old H...before the alien abduction. But...I think I am happier now than I have been in a long time. I am starting to feel like me again. I think this experience will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The things that I am learning and will continue to learn are a gift. I am getting there. Finally!!!
I had a looonnnng text exchange with my ex-husband tonight. Man, everyone needs an ex-husband like mine...lol. We reminisced about some funny memories. He told me he and his best friend were watching old videos and his friend’s teenage daughter thought I was “stunningly gorgeous”. I said “really?” and he said my eyes are amazing and that I am still really striking. Awww...shucks...that is just what a woman who has recently been openly rejected by her husband needs to hear...lol. My ex is my biggest cheerleader and fan. He says I taught him a lot and still continue to teach him with how I am handling everything. He, too, hopes my H finds the courage to tell me the truth. He also, as always, expressed his dismay that he had his head up his @ss back then. I think he definitely appreciates me more now than he did then. Maturity and growth...eventually leads to figuring out what is important in life. Back then I was the quintessential “girl next door” and not exciting enough for my H who was totally focused on dating women who were risky or stereotypically beautiful...one step off from a stripper kind of girls. When we met, I had a HUGE crush on him but he was lukewarm on me. But he would spend at least two nights a week hanging out with me and making me dinner, etc... but never tried to kiss me or anything. His friends constantly told me that he liked me...he just didn’t know it. Then, when I had given up all hope and he found out that I was thinking about getting back together with my old boyfriend, he completely changed his tune and kissed me the night before I was leaving to go back home for a visit. Ruined my ex’s weekend, that’s for sure. Anyway...very different beginning than with my current H who wrote to me that I had given him back his will to live after our second or third date. I thought that was the key to lasting love...that both people are instantly head over heels. I don’t feel that way anymore. My ex and I had the foundation of trust and friendship. He made some mistakes in our MR, as did I, but he would have never betrayed me to the level that my H has. Not in a million years. It has been 28 years since my ex and I first met and he probably loves me more now than he did then... at least he appreciates the qualities in me that seemed so boring back then...honesty, loyalty, stability, etc... the kind of person you can be married to for 50 years. So I guess that begs the question... why am I facing my second divorce?
This is gonna sound crazy cause I still have my up and down days and days when I miss my H...my old H...before the alien abduction. But...I think I am happier now than I have been in a long time. I am starting to feel like me again. I think this experience will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The things that I am learning and will continue to learn are a gift. I am getting there. Finally!!!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 07:42 AM
Hi DV
I am on my phone so apologies in advance for inevitable typos 😌
You are doing so well. I have an ex too who is my biggest cheerleader. Difference is i was the one who left him. He was reliable and loyal and loved me completely and i treated him like [censored]. Whilst I would never go back (he has long moved on, as have I) at no point did i undervalue those qualities - even when my H and i were in the throes of our love affair. Now that i have been cast aside, my ex has listened to me crying on the phone, tried to counsel me when i was at my worst and many many times told me that i am too good for H and deserve better. On the flip side, he says my H really did love me and that he is good father. What I am trying to say I guess is those we once loved we will always love and that goes for our Hs. They will always love us - it is the baggage that gets in the way. the resentment that led to the little lies, the lies that snowballed into (your case) a double life. That double life that had at the root of it a tiny lie, maybe a sense of freedom / escape he felt when he was away getting treatment so he went one day earlier than necessary or stayed one day longer. Snowballed. it doesnt matter though - he will never tell you just as i will never tell my ex. Guilt. I know there was love. I know there is love. There is just no marriage. You know this too.
hugs Dv.
oh - You will never know how many lies he told, whether there is one or many OW - they do not matter. Understand the motivations not the details - it will help you forgive.
I am on my phone so apologies in advance for inevitable typos 😌
You are doing so well. I have an ex too who is my biggest cheerleader. Difference is i was the one who left him. He was reliable and loyal and loved me completely and i treated him like [censored]. Whilst I would never go back (he has long moved on, as have I) at no point did i undervalue those qualities - even when my H and i were in the throes of our love affair. Now that i have been cast aside, my ex has listened to me crying on the phone, tried to counsel me when i was at my worst and many many times told me that i am too good for H and deserve better. On the flip side, he says my H really did love me and that he is good father. What I am trying to say I guess is those we once loved we will always love and that goes for our Hs. They will always love us - it is the baggage that gets in the way. the resentment that led to the little lies, the lies that snowballed into (your case) a double life. That double life that had at the root of it a tiny lie, maybe a sense of freedom / escape he felt when he was away getting treatment so he went one day earlier than necessary or stayed one day longer. Snowballed. it doesnt matter though - he will never tell you just as i will never tell my ex. Guilt. I know there was love. I know there is love. There is just no marriage. You know this too.
hugs Dv.
oh - You will never know how many lies he told, whether there is one or many OW - they do not matter. Understand the motivations not the details - it will help you forgive.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 08:50 AM
Hi Dv,
Reading your posts, i really do not believe that you ever will know the truth, and to be honest do you reckon that is worth it? Believe in what made your happy and forget the bad parts.
Roommate? nope. Deep down you know the answer.
Really scares me reading about co-parenting, its so hard. How can you be rational and make so many important decisions with someone that you can not trust?
In a way i am lucky that i did not have to spend a day away from my daughter yet, but i now that day will come. The advantage of my ex being a crap dad at the moment is that i can be a great mom.
He is playing daddy for 2/3 days a month, but he comes and stay in our home. Difficult for me, but means stability for my daughter and at least i know that he is not introducing her to a low life.
Reading your posts, i really do not believe that you ever will know the truth, and to be honest do you reckon that is worth it? Believe in what made your happy and forget the bad parts.
Roommate? nope. Deep down you know the answer.
Really scares me reading about co-parenting, its so hard. How can you be rational and make so many important decisions with someone that you can not trust?
In a way i am lucky that i did not have to spend a day away from my daughter yet, but i now that day will come. The advantage of my ex being a crap dad at the moment is that i can be a great mom.
He is playing daddy for 2/3 days a month, but he comes and stay in our home. Difficult for me, but means stability for my daughter and at least i know that he is not introducing her to a low life.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 11:44 AM
DjV, you don´t need H´s talk to be free. You need to free yourself first. And we all know you know that, yep, you know that. You are the DB princess.
Hey, last FS´s post is gold! Thank you Fly! I see myself there!
Hey, last FS´s post is gold! Thank you Fly! I see myself there!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 02:23 PM
DV, I've got to be honest, I cringed when I read your messages to H. They are full of anger, resentment and bitterness. I feel like you do pretty well on your DB'ing for a while and then you backslide and give your H "a piece of your mind" which just sets you back weeks or months in your progress. You are still so hyper-focused on him and overly attached, and it is preventing you from growing and moving forward.
Yes you are exactly right. Next time you want to fire off a nasty-gram to him then please please please post it here first and get it out of your system.
No, having convos like this with him will do the opposite. Time and space is what will help with your detachment. Stop trying to have R talks with him. I know you will say that's not what it is, that it's just coparenting, but dig deep and ask yourself what your motivation for this talk really is. My ex and I have had years worth of coparenting talks and I assure you that those talks are strictly business, there's no talk of someone lying or being deceitful or whatever. Those comments have no place in coparenting talks.
Quote
No response. An hour later... I know.... impulsive...
Yes you are exactly right. Next time you want to fire off a nasty-gram to him then please please please post it here first and get it out of your system.
Quote
I think it will actually help me with my detachment and I think it will give me some peace.
No, having convos like this with him will do the opposite. Time and space is what will help with your detachment. Stop trying to have R talks with him. I know you will say that's not what it is, that it's just coparenting, but dig deep and ask yourself what your motivation for this talk really is. My ex and I have had years worth of coparenting talks and I assure you that those talks are strictly business, there's no talk of someone lying or being deceitful or whatever. Those comments have no place in coparenting talks.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 07:41 PM
Hello DV
I had to go back and re-read your conversation with H. I didn’t think it was about coparenting, and still don’t. I saw it as a desire to understand and to let go. Dwelling on the relationship, lies, etc... will keep you attached. However, we all need a certain level of understanding before we can let go, detach, and move forward.
I had a face to face meeting with my W. Sat across from a woman I’ve known for 30 years and didn’t recognize her. The mannerisms, the speech patterns, the thought structure, and the feelings. All that was recognized, was her face and incredibly thin body, her shell.
A level of understanding is required to keep moving forward. I was cautioned that I had made a mistake having a meeting, perhaps I did. This is not an exact science, a lot of this falls to faith, espically in ourselves, even when that is in very short supply. You still know your situation better than anyone here, and you live the consequences.
Is this meeting even scheduled yet? If not, you can always reconsider.
I am still impressed with your articulation of your thoughts and feelings. I do agree that bringing that here first is a much better idea than being impulsive. For now, what’s done is done. Look to next time.
Looking for understanding is admirable. Be careful, trying to get inside his head will drive you bonkers.
DnJ
I had to go back and re-read your conversation with H. I didn’t think it was about coparenting, and still don’t. I saw it as a desire to understand and to let go. Dwelling on the relationship, lies, etc... will keep you attached. However, we all need a certain level of understanding before we can let go, detach, and move forward.
I had a face to face meeting with my W. Sat across from a woman I’ve known for 30 years and didn’t recognize her. The mannerisms, the speech patterns, the thought structure, and the feelings. All that was recognized, was her face and incredibly thin body, her shell.
A level of understanding is required to keep moving forward. I was cautioned that I had made a mistake having a meeting, perhaps I did. This is not an exact science, a lot of this falls to faith, espically in ourselves, even when that is in very short supply. You still know your situation better than anyone here, and you live the consequences.
Is this meeting even scheduled yet? If not, you can always reconsider.
I am still impressed with your articulation of your thoughts and feelings. I do agree that bringing that here first is a much better idea than being impulsive. For now, what’s done is done. Look to next time.
Looking for understanding is admirable. Be careful, trying to get inside his head will drive you bonkers.
DnJ
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/21/19 09:11 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. AS - I have thought a lot about what you wrote and I can see, from a divorce busting perspective, that I should have steered clear of all of that. I agree. A few months ago, that would have been the exact wrong thing to do. But I am no longer trying to bust this divorce. I have accepted the inevitable and I know my MR is over. My goals are different and if you knew me and my history of relationships and in particular, this relationship, you would know why I did what I did.
No, the texts I posted are not about co-parenting directly...but they are indirectly. Prior to the texts I posted, my H and I were having a conversation about our children and things that they have said to me. My son, in particular who has literally melted down when he said something about his dad that he thought he shouldn't have (once because Daddy bought them popsicles)... "I don't feel as safe talking to dad about my feelings. I haven't been very good at keeping his secrets so I don't think he would be good at keeping mine," was his comment to me the other night. My kids are very protective of me. They are bright and empathic. I get the impression that they feel like they can't talk about their dad or anything about their visits for fear of telling a secret (implied not spoken) or upsetting me in some way. I hate that. If their dad is living with his girlfriend and it is "their" house, I want to be able to refer to it as that so my kids know it is okay. I want to be able to tell them that I KNOW Daddy has a girlfriend and that it is okay with me that they spend time with her. I don't want them to think there is a major part of their life that they aren't allowed to speak about because they think I don't know. I don't want them living with the burden of that. I need them to know that their reality matches my reality and right now, that isn't the case.
The conversation I plan on having with my H is not about our MR. I don't want reasons or feelings or anything like that. There are a few events and situations from the past four years [I have made a list] that, quite simply, I want to know the truth about and I do think he will tell me. And I know you think this won't help me but I think it will. I am working on forgiveness and getting closer to it every day but I know that in order for me to truly let it go, I need to know what it is I am forgiving and letting go of. Maybe that doesn't matter to some people, but it does to me. I think it will be good for him too. I think he is carrying around the weight of some of these things and that "coming clean" with me and not being berated for it will allow him to let go as well. At the end of the day, I just want to move on and be able to look back on our history without a HUGE number of holes and question marks.This situation is not a win/lose proposition for me. For me it is all about peace, understanding, acceptance and an improved DV6 and I know what it is I need to know to get there.
So thank you all for your thoughts and your concern. I really, really, really do appreciate it and take everyone's opinions into consideration. I assure you, I am in a MUCH better place than I was a few months ago. I have come to understand that for the past four years, I was deathly afraid of the truth about my MR and I allowed it to dictate my life. I am not afraid of it anymore so am not worried that a conversation will set me back. And if I am wrong? Well...as DnJ wrote... I will live the consequences and I am okay with it. Love and (((HUGS))) to you all!
No, the texts I posted are not about co-parenting directly...but they are indirectly. Prior to the texts I posted, my H and I were having a conversation about our children and things that they have said to me. My son, in particular who has literally melted down when he said something about his dad that he thought he shouldn't have (once because Daddy bought them popsicles)... "I don't feel as safe talking to dad about my feelings. I haven't been very good at keeping his secrets so I don't think he would be good at keeping mine," was his comment to me the other night. My kids are very protective of me. They are bright and empathic. I get the impression that they feel like they can't talk about their dad or anything about their visits for fear of telling a secret (implied not spoken) or upsetting me in some way. I hate that. If their dad is living with his girlfriend and it is "their" house, I want to be able to refer to it as that so my kids know it is okay. I want to be able to tell them that I KNOW Daddy has a girlfriend and that it is okay with me that they spend time with her. I don't want them to think there is a major part of their life that they aren't allowed to speak about because they think I don't know. I don't want them living with the burden of that. I need them to know that their reality matches my reality and right now, that isn't the case.
The conversation I plan on having with my H is not about our MR. I don't want reasons or feelings or anything like that. There are a few events and situations from the past four years [I have made a list] that, quite simply, I want to know the truth about and I do think he will tell me. And I know you think this won't help me but I think it will. I am working on forgiveness and getting closer to it every day but I know that in order for me to truly let it go, I need to know what it is I am forgiving and letting go of. Maybe that doesn't matter to some people, but it does to me. I think it will be good for him too. I think he is carrying around the weight of some of these things and that "coming clean" with me and not being berated for it will allow him to let go as well. At the end of the day, I just want to move on and be able to look back on our history without a HUGE number of holes and question marks.This situation is not a win/lose proposition for me. For me it is all about peace, understanding, acceptance and an improved DV6 and I know what it is I need to know to get there.
So thank you all for your thoughts and your concern. I really, really, really do appreciate it and take everyone's opinions into consideration. I assure you, I am in a MUCH better place than I was a few months ago. I have come to understand that for the past four years, I was deathly afraid of the truth about my MR and I allowed it to dictate my life. I am not afraid of it anymore so am not worried that a conversation will set me back. And if I am wrong? Well...as DnJ wrote... I will live the consequences and I am okay with it. Love and (((HUGS))) to you all!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/22/19 01:50 AM
Hi DV
Not quite what I meant. Well, partly.
There is also:
I looked up the definition of consequences. It is usually referring to negative result, it can mean either positive or negative, but usually is taken as negative. So, poor word choice by me. That’s what I get for rushing to finish typing before heading out the door.
I was going more for our actions and inactions can affect our situation. We have to live with whatever happens. I think you know what I was trying to say.
Take care.
DnJ
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
And if I am wrong? Well...as DnJ wrote... I will live the consequences and I am okay with it.
Not quite what I meant. Well, partly.
There is also:
Quote
And if I am right? Well...as DnJ wrote... I will live the consequences and I am okay with it.
I looked up the definition of consequences. It is usually referring to negative result, it can mean either positive or negative, but usually is taken as negative. So, poor word choice by me. That’s what I get for rushing to finish typing before heading out the door.
I was going more for our actions and inactions can affect our situation. We have to live with whatever happens. I think you know what I was trying to say.
Take care.
DnJ
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/22/19 02:11 AM
I absolutely do. I am prepared for either outcome. You take care as well.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/22/19 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by FlySolo
They will always love us - it is the baggage that gets in the way. the resentment that led to the little lies, the lies that snowballed into (your case) a double life. That double life that had at the root of it a tiny lie, maybe a sense of freedom / escape he felt when he was away getting treatment so he went one day earlier than necessary or stayed one day longer. Snowballed. it doesnt matter though - he will never tell you just as i will never tell my ex. Guilt. I know there was love. I know there is love. There is just no marriage. You know this too.
At the risk of hijacking the thread for a second, I just want to say this struck me right between the eyes. The other night when I talked to H in the aftermath of me figuring out he was back with OW, he said he knew I loved him, but thought it was clear I didn't care whether he was around or not (both during the M and now). He also states he's too damaged, and beyond repair, and I'm better off without him. His baggage. It's a definite block for him AND our M. I realize it's his way of justifying his actions now and throughout the years, but your post reminded me that love isn't enough. Perhaps there's just way too much damage and water under the bridge for us to every repair. Perhaps he is too damaged for me. I need to realize that I can love and have concern, but he might not be available as a partner any longer. Something for me to think about.
Originally Posted by FlySolo
oh - You will never know how many lies he told, whether there is one or many OW - they do not matter. Understand the motivations not the details - it will help you forgive.
Wow! this is profound too. Thanks for the reminder. Most of my marriage was a lie, because H was unable to express deep emotional thoughts to me. He blames our marital dynamics, but I know it is much, much more, because I have many deep emotional connections to others, and he has none. It's hard to NOT focus on the "symptoms" (details), but the motivations are surely the key. Thanks for the reminder, FlySolo.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/23/19 02:39 AM
No worries about the hijack Grace. FS’s post hit me too. Definitely lots to think about.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/23/19 11:59 AM
Grace, I was there too. Sad, isn’t it?
Your H must heal himself first...he must face his own demons. It takes time and willingness Grace, you don’t wait for that. You wait for no one.
Sorry DjV.
Hugs for all of you, girls ;-)
Your H must heal himself first...he must face his own demons. It takes time and willingness Grace, you don’t wait for that. You wait for no one.
Sorry DjV.
Hugs for all of you, girls ;-)
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/25/19 11:34 PM
Great visit with my friend this weekend. It was good to have her around. The house seemed less empty. Yet another person who never really warmed to my H. She said she couldn’t put her finger on why. She thought he wasn’t very friendly and didn’t seem interested in her at all. Now he has only seen her a few times so it is more of an “impression” than an opinion based on lots of contact. I think the last couple times she saw him, he was already checking out of our marriage so maybe that is why he seemed standoffish. He didn’t always come across that way. I, too, have noticed his personality shift in the latter half of our marriage to where he wasn’t very friendly to others but I guess when you are living a lie, it starts to affect how you present yourself to people.
I saw him last night. We had a brief chat. He wants to talk later this week. Says it is important and he has to be in the right frame of mind. Wants to go through “everything” with me and he can’t do it in ten minutes. So...that will be interesting.
Thanks for the hugs Neffer. :-)
I saw him last night. We had a brief chat. He wants to talk later this week. Says it is important and he has to be in the right frame of mind. Wants to go through “everything” with me and he can’t do it in ten minutes. So...that will be interesting.
Thanks for the hugs Neffer. :-)
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/25/19 11:46 PM
DV6,
You got a lot going on. Looks like you are still GALing. How is the pool game?
You got a lot going on. Looks like you are still GALing. How is the pool game?
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 01:40 PM
DV,
Isn't reconnecting with friends or establishing new friendships one of the great silver linings of living through our sitchs? I have felt so much more connected and open to friends. So many people, both expected and unexpected, helped support me in my time of need.
In terms of the meeting with WH. Just remember, no expectations. Don't let any narrative take hold in you head beforehand. Just listen and validate when you can. You got this!
Isn't reconnecting with friends or establishing new friendships one of the great silver linings of living through our sitchs? I have felt so much more connected and open to friends. So many people, both expected and unexpected, helped support me in my time of need.
In terms of the meeting with WH. Just remember, no expectations. Don't let any narrative take hold in you head beforehand. Just listen and validate when you can. You got this!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 03:25 PM
TF... The pool game is okay. My sitch affected it earlier in the year as my brain was only half there. But I am recovering and so is my game.
So yesterday was unexpected. My sister accidentally flooded my butler’s pantry and the water came out into the main kitchen. We mopped it up as best we could but it managed to seep into the subfloor so water started pouring out of the air exchange vent downstairs. Called my insurance company and they told me to call a restoration company. So I did and they were here last night until midnight trying to mitigate the damage. Now I have to listen to a dehumidifier running 24/7 on both floors of my house. And there is a big hole in my ceiling downstairs. Apparently I have to let the hardwood floors settle for a couple of months before they can be refinished. So lots of excitement. Definitely figured out that I am not sweating the small stuff these days. I didn’t even get upset. Just felt bad for my sister.
So...confession time... when my friend was over on the weekend, she convinced me to put up a profile on a couple of dating apps. I had 11 guys wanting to meet me within two hours. It completely freaked me out. Haven’t replied to any of them... you have to buy a membership to do that. I’m not sure why I did it because I said I wasn’t going to. I guess I got a bit tired of feeling sad about my H and was a bit curious to see who is out there. She said there is no harm in meeting someone for coffee and making a new friend but I know that most people are on there to find a partner or a one night stand. Not sure I’m good material for the first and definitely not for the latter. I have never been a hook-up kind of person. Anyway...haven’t decided what I am going to do yet. I am feeling a bit rude that I haven’t gotten back to anyone though.
Davide - Yes. I am definitely grateful for my friendships and I have spent more time with other women in the last six months than I have in the six years prior. It is a really great silver lining, no doubt. Thanks for the encouragement. I have no expectations.
Time to get back to work. Hope all is well out there in DB Land. (((HUGS)))
So yesterday was unexpected. My sister accidentally flooded my butler’s pantry and the water came out into the main kitchen. We mopped it up as best we could but it managed to seep into the subfloor so water started pouring out of the air exchange vent downstairs. Called my insurance company and they told me to call a restoration company. So I did and they were here last night until midnight trying to mitigate the damage. Now I have to listen to a dehumidifier running 24/7 on both floors of my house. And there is a big hole in my ceiling downstairs. Apparently I have to let the hardwood floors settle for a couple of months before they can be refinished. So lots of excitement. Definitely figured out that I am not sweating the small stuff these days. I didn’t even get upset. Just felt bad for my sister.
So...confession time... when my friend was over on the weekend, she convinced me to put up a profile on a couple of dating apps. I had 11 guys wanting to meet me within two hours. It completely freaked me out. Haven’t replied to any of them... you have to buy a membership to do that. I’m not sure why I did it because I said I wasn’t going to. I guess I got a bit tired of feeling sad about my H and was a bit curious to see who is out there. She said there is no harm in meeting someone for coffee and making a new friend but I know that most people are on there to find a partner or a one night stand. Not sure I’m good material for the first and definitely not for the latter. I have never been a hook-up kind of person. Anyway...haven’t decided what I am going to do yet. I am feeling a bit rude that I haven’t gotten back to anyone though.
Davide - Yes. I am definitely grateful for my friendships and I have spent more time with other women in the last six months than I have in the six years prior. It is a really great silver lining, no doubt. Thanks for the encouragement. I have no expectations.
Time to get back to work. Hope all is well out there in DB Land. (((HUGS)))
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 04:38 PM
Hey DV,
Re: the app - don't stress too much about it. I'm guessing you'll get a massive amount of varied input from this board if/when you do decide to actively us a "dating" app to meet people. (Yes - I think "dating" needs to be in quotes - because the apps really have a wide and varied use, depending on who you ask :))
I imagine the use of the app feels almost like a game - a window into the possibilities, but you're not willing to shop yet. That's okay. From my perspective it really is OKAY to not respond to these inquiries. You'll hear different perspectives on this too. Some people think that apps should follow the same social rules as if you meet someone IRL. I tend to feel differently - that the technology is used precisely because it ISN'T yet personal, so there is flexibility - and a safety wall to hide behind. I tend to lean more towards the belief that different technologies should be used for different encounters and have different social norms. I would never ignore someone who gave me a polite "hello" in real life. Online? Yeah. I would. Because then they are literally in your HAND - they are in your HOME essentially. You do tread more carefully, and most folks know that online it is okay to not be your full authentic self yet.
On a related note - I went to download "Babbel" (a language app) to my phone over the weekend and almost downloaded "Bumble" (a dating app where women need to make the first move). Whoops! I caught myself in time but had a good laugh at the mental slip-up.
Re: the app - don't stress too much about it. I'm guessing you'll get a massive amount of varied input from this board if/when you do decide to actively us a "dating" app to meet people. (Yes - I think "dating" needs to be in quotes - because the apps really have a wide and varied use, depending on who you ask :))
I imagine the use of the app feels almost like a game - a window into the possibilities, but you're not willing to shop yet. That's okay. From my perspective it really is OKAY to not respond to these inquiries. You'll hear different perspectives on this too. Some people think that apps should follow the same social rules as if you meet someone IRL. I tend to feel differently - that the technology is used precisely because it ISN'T yet personal, so there is flexibility - and a safety wall to hide behind. I tend to lean more towards the belief that different technologies should be used for different encounters and have different social norms. I would never ignore someone who gave me a polite "hello" in real life. Online? Yeah. I would. Because then they are literally in your HAND - they are in your HOME essentially. You do tread more carefully, and most folks know that online it is okay to not be your full authentic self yet.
On a related note - I went to download "Babbel" (a language app) to my phone over the weekend and almost downloaded "Bumble" (a dating app where women need to make the first move). Whoops! I caught myself in time but had a good laugh at the mental slip-up.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 05:35 PM
Hi DV6,
I'm sorry I haven't been around much outside of posting in my sitch. I'm trying to catch up now.
I saw the stuff about you getting responses on a dating app. That's good that you are getting some folks reaching out to you. I do want to warn you that (based on what I hear) women on dating apps get BOMBARDED with winks/messages/other things. And you are correct that many are looking for a hook-up. I would make sure that you define what you want when you dip your toes back into the dating pool. Set boundaries and stick to them. Yes it's going to be difficult to enforce them and it's going to be just as difficult for the men to truly grasp your requirements and expectations. Just play it by ear and take it slow (which I still have no idea how to do).
I'm sorry I haven't been around much outside of posting in my sitch. I'm trying to catch up now.
I saw the stuff about you getting responses on a dating app. That's good that you are getting some folks reaching out to you. I do want to warn you that (based on what I hear) women on dating apps get BOMBARDED with winks/messages/other things. And you are correct that many are looking for a hook-up. I would make sure that you define what you want when you dip your toes back into the dating pool. Set boundaries and stick to them. Yes it's going to be difficult to enforce them and it's going to be just as difficult for the men to truly grasp your requirements and expectations. Just play it by ear and take it slow (which I still have no idea how to do).
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Not sure I’m good material for the first and definitely not for the latter. I have never been a hook-up kind of person. Anyway...haven’t decided what I am going to do yet. I am feeling a bit rude that I haven’t gotten back to anyone though.
(((DV6)))
The blessing in all this is that YOU CONTROL your pace in all this. Glad to see that you’re not a hook-up person either; if nothing else that’s encouraging for me wayyyyyy down the road (if it gets that far), that there are at least some women also not totally interested in casual sex / hook-ups.
There’s nothing wrong with making friends—if that is what you truly want, and if you are clear in your intentions not only with yourself, but with others.
I do hope that whatever you pursue, whenever you do it, that you are careful, because you are worthy.
I can see what you are saying about feeling ‘rude’ that you haven’t reached back out to anyone—I get it, but it’s at your own pace.
I did online dating (how I met W), and it’s honestly a numbers game, on both sides—both sides make contact with the expectation that it only results in a few ‘hits’ back—a few messages, which narrow into fewer conversations, which then narrow into fewer relationships, and so on.
And besides, those who truly want you for you will wait. So if they’re really into you, they will message you back and continue with you when you are ready.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/26/19 11:51 PM
Thanks everyone for your support and words of wisdom. As per usual...it is very helpful. I have not done the OLD thing since I met my H in 2005 and things have changed a lot since then. I felt like my mom trying to figure everything out. The wide variety of people messaging me was kinda bizarre and a bit intimidating TBH. Of course, many people look really good on their profile and I'm sure a good percentage of those are not exactly honest about who they are. It is so hard to tell from what someone writes, don't ya think? Anyway...if anyone has any insider tips, I would appreciate hearing them. I was messaging my SD19 last night about it and she thought it was HIGHLY amusing. She is coming to visit me this weekend and says she will "help you [me] out". Great...dating advice from my 19 year-old. This HAS to be a set up for a disaster...lol.
Anyway...even though I am approaching this in the most casual of ways, I have to admit that it was really, really nice not thinking about my H when I was bumbling my way through everything. The last time I ventured down this road, I was acutely aware of my biological clock ticking away so even though I wasn't "desperate", I was definitely more serious about it. This time...well...just want to get out and leave myself open to whatever the universe has in store. I will consider it a success if I make a few new friends.
Anyway...even though I am approaching this in the most casual of ways, I have to admit that it was really, really nice not thinking about my H when I was bumbling my way through everything. The last time I ventured down this road, I was acutely aware of my biological clock ticking away so even though I wasn't "desperate", I was definitely more serious about it. This time...well...just want to get out and leave myself open to whatever the universe has in store. I will consider it a success if I make a few new friends.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/27/19 12:52 AM
Deja - I've been so buried in my own sitch, I haven't ventured far from my own thread. Just catching up a bit.
I can see how enticing it is to "get out there". A few weekends ago, I went to dinner with a man my friend and I met at happy hour. He was in town on business. I was very clear I wasn't anywhere near ready to date, and even though I was separated I was still married. He invited me to meet him for dinner anyway. We had a wonderful time, and talked straight through over 2 hours. He did ask a bit about my sitch, but I made it brief. Anyway, I have two points on this.
1. It felt terrific to be validated by a man, that he seemed to really enjoy my company.
2. Even after being very clear of my sitch, and not ready to date, he still met me for dinner, and we had a great time. He accepted my boundaries, and I felt glad I was clear in the beginning. (I still felt a little guilty going out, though, to be honest).
So, be clear what you want, stick to it, and the worthwhile people will come. It might take a while, because I think truly wonderful, HEALTHY, people are difficult to find (particularly at my age - in their 50s). But, as I found out a few weeks ago, they are there somewhere.
I can see how enticing it is to "get out there". A few weekends ago, I went to dinner with a man my friend and I met at happy hour. He was in town on business. I was very clear I wasn't anywhere near ready to date, and even though I was separated I was still married. He invited me to meet him for dinner anyway. We had a wonderful time, and talked straight through over 2 hours. He did ask a bit about my sitch, but I made it brief. Anyway, I have two points on this.
1. It felt terrific to be validated by a man, that he seemed to really enjoy my company.
2. Even after being very clear of my sitch, and not ready to date, he still met me for dinner, and we had a great time. He accepted my boundaries, and I felt glad I was clear in the beginning. (I still felt a little guilty going out, though, to be honest).
So, be clear what you want, stick to it, and the worthwhile people will come. It might take a while, because I think truly wonderful, HEALTHY, people are difficult to find (particularly at my age - in their 50s). But, as I found out a few weeks ago, they are there somewhere.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/27/19 04:51 AM
DV, lol at your D19 helping you. Fun times ahead! That's really cool. Have fun out there in OLD world.
remember to release the catfish back into the pond. And those them suckers back quick
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/27/19 04:26 PM
Hey DV,
Great to hear that you are putting yourself out there! Don't worry about not responding right away. I spent about a month just dipping my toes in the water, creating a profile, looking through profiles, and not responding to anyone who messaged me. I needed that time to get comfortable with the idea of dating again. You have no obligation to respond to anyone, so don't feel bad about that.
In terms of tips, I can only help from my perspective as a guy. I don't get inundated with responses like many of the gals do. I would just approach everything from a perspective of zero expectations. I have probably been on dates with two dozen women in the last four months and only two of them weren't great experiences. Even with the women who I had no romantic connection there was still generally an interesting conversation in which I learned something new. I approach each date like that and I think it has served me well. It sounds like you are in the right frame of mind.
Like everyone else says, don't waste your time chatting/texting for too long. If it isn't progressing to a meet-up in real life after a week or two, just let it go. It is hard to get to know a person from what they write. I really hit it off with one woman in our chats, and due to circumstances we couldn't meet up for nearly a month (we were planning it well ahead of that), when we finally met up it was clear within minutes that there was no chemistry. There are signs you can look for, common interests, well-written profiles, attractive and plentiful photos, but ultimately you always learn more in 5 minutes of face to face time than you can in weeks of online chatter.
In terms of disclosing my situation, I always make that call on the first date. If I feel like it is someone I want to see again, I make sure to let them know that I am separated and on the verge of being divorced. I don't do that online, and I don't do it if I know that there won't be more dates. I want to be upfront and honest in a possible relationship but I also don't feel the need to disclose personal information with just anyone.
Most of all, enjoy the process! You are forging a new path in your life and that should be exciting and even a little scary. Embrace that!
Great to hear that you are putting yourself out there! Don't worry about not responding right away. I spent about a month just dipping my toes in the water, creating a profile, looking through profiles, and not responding to anyone who messaged me. I needed that time to get comfortable with the idea of dating again. You have no obligation to respond to anyone, so don't feel bad about that.
In terms of tips, I can only help from my perspective as a guy. I don't get inundated with responses like many of the gals do. I would just approach everything from a perspective of zero expectations. I have probably been on dates with two dozen women in the last four months and only two of them weren't great experiences. Even with the women who I had no romantic connection there was still generally an interesting conversation in which I learned something new. I approach each date like that and I think it has served me well. It sounds like you are in the right frame of mind.
Like everyone else says, don't waste your time chatting/texting for too long. If it isn't progressing to a meet-up in real life after a week or two, just let it go. It is hard to get to know a person from what they write. I really hit it off with one woman in our chats, and due to circumstances we couldn't meet up for nearly a month (we were planning it well ahead of that), when we finally met up it was clear within minutes that there was no chemistry. There are signs you can look for, common interests, well-written profiles, attractive and plentiful photos, but ultimately you always learn more in 5 minutes of face to face time than you can in weeks of online chatter.
In terms of disclosing my situation, I always make that call on the first date. If I feel like it is someone I want to see again, I make sure to let them know that I am separated and on the verge of being divorced. I don't do that online, and I don't do it if I know that there won't be more dates. I want to be upfront and honest in a possible relationship but I also don't feel the need to disclose personal information with just anyone.
Most of all, enjoy the process! You are forging a new path in your life and that should be exciting and even a little scary. Embrace that!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/28/19 08:33 PM
Thanks All! I have suspended my profile on most of the sites... it was just a bit too much. Staying on Bumble and Tinder. Tinder because it seems to have more people on it and I’ve also be chatting with one guy who I think has potential when I decide to go down the road of actually dating. He’s a bit older than me, looks a lot younger than he is (like me), seems very nice and is a professor at a US university that is the closest to where i live. Basically a ferry ride and a 45 minute drive from there. I am actually planning to go to his community in a couple of months with my sister as we usually go there a few times a year. So...if we are still talking by then, it will be easy to meet up for a coffee with no pressure as i had already planned to go with my sister anyway. I am amazed how many people are on these sites. It’s kind of crazy. I had a 79 year old guy message me...lol. Hmmm...guess I could have introduced him to my MIL if she weren’t “done” with men...lol. Have to give him kudos for trying though. 
Can I ask the guys out there a question?? What is with the full-bearded look these days? Honestly...the Grizzly Adams look is just not good, IMO. I sure hope this is a fad and men will start shaving again. Anyway...maybe it is just me and there are lots of women out there who love that look. No fun to kiss though, whether you like the look or not.
Got my separation agreement emailed to me yesterday. One more round of negotiations and it should pretty much be a done deal. Went through it with my sister as I didn’t want to read it alone. Still cannnot believe we got to this point without any attempts to save the marriage but it is what it is and he is who he is. Always searching for happiness and validation outside of himself. I think it would get tiring reinventing yourself every 10-15 years but that is just how he rolls. Sad.... for him and for our family.
Can I ask the guys out there a question?? What is with the full-bearded look these days? Honestly...the Grizzly Adams look is just not good, IMO. I sure hope this is a fad and men will start shaving again. Anyway...maybe it is just me and there are lots of women out there who love that look. No fun to kiss though, whether you like the look or not.
Got my separation agreement emailed to me yesterday. One more round of negotiations and it should pretty much be a done deal. Went through it with my sister as I didn’t want to read it alone. Still cannnot believe we got to this point without any attempts to save the marriage but it is what it is and he is who he is. Always searching for happiness and validation outside of himself. I think it would get tiring reinventing yourself every 10-15 years but that is just how he rolls. Sad.... for him and for our family.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/28/19 10:32 PM
Hey DV
"Suspended my profile on most of the sites ..." how many sites are you on ?!?!?
Seriously, do what feels right. Do it honestly and you will come out the other side with a clear conscience. There is an interesting discussion on dating post D which Steve started but, when all is said and done, only you know what is right for you. Your moral compass is sound and you will do the right thing.
I can't give much advice on dating sites. My only experience is when I put up the fake profile of a tree - which, strangely got a lot of responses - but I will say that there are nice people out there. I have a lot of male friends who I go out with, mainly lunches and drinks (as these are less like dates) and we have fun. Conversation generally flows and there is a lot of laughter. They know my sitch, know that I still hold out hopes for my marriage, and are respectful of that. They do think I am an idiot though.
I now see myself occasionally looking at someone and thinking "he's not bad" and "maybe in another life". Maybe there is hope for me yet
Sorry to hear re the separation agreement. It still breaks my heart that anyone can walk away without at least trying to save a marriage. But it is what it is and they are what they are. Pride, guilt and shame. Easier to reinvent then face the consequences of your actions.
Not sure about the Grizzly Adams look - maybe it's American thing? Most of the men I meet are overly well groomed. I do work in London though.
Keep on keeping on. You are doing great.
"Suspended my profile on most of the sites ..." how many sites are you on ?!?!?
Seriously, do what feels right. Do it honestly and you will come out the other side with a clear conscience. There is an interesting discussion on dating post D which Steve started but, when all is said and done, only you know what is right for you. Your moral compass is sound and you will do the right thing.
I can't give much advice on dating sites. My only experience is when I put up the fake profile of a tree - which, strangely got a lot of responses - but I will say that there are nice people out there. I have a lot of male friends who I go out with, mainly lunches and drinks (as these are less like dates) and we have fun. Conversation generally flows and there is a lot of laughter. They know my sitch, know that I still hold out hopes for my marriage, and are respectful of that. They do think I am an idiot though.
I now see myself occasionally looking at someone and thinking "he's not bad" and "maybe in another life". Maybe there is hope for me yet
Sorry to hear re the separation agreement. It still breaks my heart that anyone can walk away without at least trying to save a marriage. But it is what it is and they are what they are. Pride, guilt and shame. Easier to reinvent then face the consequences of your actions.
Not sure about the Grizzly Adams look - maybe it's American thing? Most of the men I meet are overly well groomed. I do work in London though.
Keep on keeping on. You are doing great.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 02/28/19 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Can I ask the guys out there a question?? What is with the full-bearded look these days? Honestly...the Grizzly Adams look is just not good, IMO. I sure hope this is a fad and men will start shaving again. Anyway...maybe it is just me and there are lots of women out there who love that look. No fun to kiss though, whether you like the look or not.
I’m sorry to hear about the separation agreement (((HUGS))).
With respect to the full-bearded look? Even I don’t understand it as a guy.
I tend to be pretty clean-shaven—today I didn’t have time to shave in the AM because I overslept, so I have a bit of stubble. That’s the most I would do—I think a day’s worth of stubble is a good look on me, but anything further past that gets to be much too much for me.
W has commented in the past about my trying out facial hair—she would want me to try it out, thinking that I could look good like that. It doesn’t really work for me, and I really don’t like it—I would think it would get itchy, hot, you run the risk of stuff accumulating in the beard, have to trim it to make it look ‘nice’....it doesn’t seem worth the effort for someone like me. Plus, I have a rather young-looking face as it is, so it doesn’t totally look right. I’d rather fully embrace the babyface, I guess. A co-worker yesterday said I look really young—I asked him how old do you think I am? He said 28–I’m 35, to be 36 in about 2 months.
I also guess for me the issue is with those who do the beard as some sort of reflection on manhood—I’m not saying everyone who does this believes this, but I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere. Having a beard doesn’t make you more manly, necessarily.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/01/19 03:34 AM
LOL...FS...I was trying to decide which ones were better for someone in my age group but you can’t peruse most of them without signing up so I had signed up for four or five so now I am down to two. Tinder seems to be the most casual where people are looking to chat or find new friends. A few married guys on there looking for a “female friend” and some that say they are in an “open relationship” or “polyamerous”. So my question is... why be married then? They are clearly missing the point. Anyway...there are a few interesting people amongst the bevy of mountain men...some of whom will die virgins...lol. The pictures people post are bizarre, to say the least. But they do say there is someone for everyone, right? Oh...and there is always hope for you FS!!!
Bo - I was texting with my XH (first one) and he said the same thing. He is a musician and said he was playing a gig the other night with a lot of people in their 20s and 30s. He said all of the women were dressed to the nines and the guys were scruffy and wearing hoodies. He could not believe it. IDK...different strokes for different folks, I suppose, but I, for one, always prefer the clean shaven look. My H sometimes is clean shaven and sometimes has a bit of facial hair. I think he looks best clean shaven even though he can pull both off... he’s also got a bit of a baby face. And BTW... 35 is YOUNG!!!
Bo - I was texting with my XH (first one) and he said the same thing. He is a musician and said he was playing a gig the other night with a lot of people in their 20s and 30s. He said all of the women were dressed to the nines and the guys were scruffy and wearing hoodies. He could not believe it. IDK...different strokes for different folks, I suppose, but I, for one, always prefer the clean shaven look. My H sometimes is clean shaven and sometimes has a bit of facial hair. I think he looks best clean shaven even though he can pull both off... he’s also got a bit of a baby face. And BTW... 35 is YOUNG!!!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/01/19 03:43 AM
DV, your comment about the beard trend had me laughing and I don't know why. I live amongst the hipsters and many many many breweries... to see a man under 50 without a beard is a rarity!
It's a requirement to go with the flannel shirts and toques. Certainly can't play banjo without a beard. A charming look, in my mind - though I certainly don't have your same "scratchy kisses" worry!
It's a requirement to go with the flannel shirts and toques. Certainly can't play banjo without a beard. A charming look, in my mind - though I certainly don't have your same "scratchy kisses" worry!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/01/19 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
He’s a bit older than me, looks a lot younger than he is (like me), seems very nice and is a professor at a US university that is the closest to where i live.
Are you basing that on pics from his dating site profile? Back when I was actively dating I heard so many stories about guys using very old photos or outright fake photos and looking completely different in person. I can't imagine anyone thinking that's a good idea (do you really want to start a new relationship out with lies and deception?) but nevertheless it's very common.
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Can I ask the guys out there a question?? What is with the full-bearded look these days? Honestly...the Grizzly Adams look is just not good, IMO.
Haha! It's just the popular style right now. I've only grown a beard once in my life and it was for a Halloween costume (I was Hook and my GF was Emma). It drove me crazy, even though it was a closely trimmed beard I just didn't like having something on my face all the time like that, LOL! And truth by told, a lot of the guys I know that grow them flat-out do it because they think they are ugly and they're trying to hide it.
Quote
Got my separation agreement emailed to me yesterday. One more round of negotiations and it should pretty much be a done deal. Went through it with my sister as I didn’t want to read it alone. Still cannnot believe we got to this point without any attempts to save the marriage but it is what it is and he is who he is.
There is very little about what we all went through or are going through that isn't baffling. Look at how many years it's been for me and I still scratch my head over why it all went down. You will be able to look back at it without feeling hurt, angry, sad and such. It takes a while but you do eventually find peace with it. You'll still look back and think "WTF" though, I don't think that ever goes away!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/01/19 01:07 PM
I am coming up on 2 years and while that is not as long as some I still have that WTF feeling. Especially when I see a video of my Xw and her BF standing together at a birthday party. I know there is more to it than looks but when I saw that I was really like WTF are you thinking. Smh.
I am clean shaven as well...have only wore a beard one time for about a year.
I am clean shaven as well...have only wore a beard one time for about a year.
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/01/19 01:14 PM
Please start a new thread and link both of your threads together. Thanks!
Re: Down But Not Out - Part VI - 03/02/19 06:23 AM