Down But Not Out - Part IV - DivorceBusting.com

Link to old thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2830607#Post2830607

Thought it was time to start a new thread...

DnJ... thanks for the extra thoughts on detaching with love. Definitely something I will strive to do in 2019.

2018 has to be the most up and down year of my life so I am not sad that it is over. The first part of the year was so hopeful and fun. A trip to Mexico, a 50th birthday cruise... so glad I got to experience those events. The last four months...more painful and life-altering than anything I have gone through in my entire life. Betrayal and abandonment by the person with whom I had pledged to spend my life. There are barely words to describe that kind of loss.

My kids and I are having a movie night. A Star Wars movie of course. The Last Jedi. My old H would have been all over this and cuddled up with me and the kids on the couch. I miss that H a lot. And I am sad for this new version. That he thinks missing out on 50% of time with our kids is preferable to saving our marriage. He and I will forever disagree on that point.

Been thinking about how relationships deteriorate over time. In the beginning, both my H and I worked really hard to love each other only it didn�t seem like work because we were so driven by all of those wonderful �new relationship chemicals�. We kinda just took it for granted that it would always be that easy. And then our kids were born and they became our focus and real life stressors increased exponentially. We relied on the fact that we were married and stopped working on us and it seemed like everything else became more important. If there is one thing I regret in all of this, it is that. We should have gone on dates and spent more time together.

But...no point in dwelling on the �if onlys� and �what ifs�. It is what it is. 2019 is going to be a much better year for me and my kids. We will move forward together and I will treasure the time I have with them and work on my PMA.

Happy New Year and love to you all!

Still reading DV. Not much else I feel I can add right now, except I would have been giddy over that text response you got from your H... it seems like it was a good response despite the slight backslide, AND also that you handled that well without thinking much of it.

Happy New Year (((DejaVu6)))

Thanks TJT. It was nice to know he was thinking about the same thing I was thinking about. Not going to read anything it. He was by himself last night so it makes sense he would have been thinking about previous New Year�s. I hope he remembers it fondly.

A bit of a tough time with my S11 tonight. He got really sad when I told him he was going to his dad�s for a couple of days. Started crying and said he really misses me and he doesn�t like having to miss me or his dad. He�s still holding out hope his dad will come back home.

I did my best to reassure him. Told him I am okay and that it is okay to miss me because it tells me that he really loves me and I really love him. Reminded him that he can call me or text me on his IPad. I also told him that I don�t want him to feel bad around me and his dad. Told him that I love his dad and that I want his dad to be happy and he feels like he is happier living on his own without me and that is okay. I validated his feelings of powerlessness and said that sometimes things just happen that we can�t really change but that how we deal with it is what counts.

Anyway...overall it was a good talk, I think. He has always been mommy�s boy. During the movie tonight he sat right next to me and held my hand. I told him I was not looking forward to the day when he doesn�t want to hold my hand anymore or get hugs from me. He�s quite sure that is never going to happen...lol. Gosh I love my kids. When I look at them, how can I have any regrets?

DV - Your NYE sounds awesome and I am so glad that you decided to go through with it. We are building new memories and overcoming fears (mine was that no-one would turn up ... ah that old rejection nugget) one day at a time.

I think your handling of your talk with S11 is a perfectly example of a great parent. You have fought through your own anger and feelings of abandonment so that your children do not feel abandoned. Trust me I know how hard it is to not turn around and scream "How can you not see how selfish he is being. He left us".

I am going to circle back to the loving detachment conversation. For me it is simple, though really really hard to do.

Loving detachment is truly and deeply wishing our spouses well on their journey AND despite the immense pain that we feel/felt, looking fondly back at the time with them and having no regrets.

Good Morning DV

Great conversation with S11. Excellent message regarding his feelings of powerlessness and what we choose to do is what really matters.

That stuff just doesn�t come out of thin air, it has to be within you. You are so much on a good path.

I made a typo when typing Good Morning DV, and the autocorrect changed it to Good Mommy DV.

Autocorrect was actual correct.

Kind of felt bad backspacing over that.

Good Mommy DV!

DnJ

Thank you FS & DnJ.

S11 was teary again this morning when H was here to pick them up. He is keeping them until Friday. He was in his sister�s room and I could tell he was upset so I asked him if he was okay. H must have heard because he came to the door. S11 just said he was going to miss me and sat on my lap and looked anxiously at his dad. I just hugged him and told him I would call him tonight if that helps. He said it would and then he got up and got a hug from my H. Normally I would be feeling pretty angry at my H for this but this morning I just felt resigned and sad and focused on my kids.

H was pretty friendly this morning as was I. He told me he had met a neighbour who would help him move his truck. I asked him if he was planning on moving it to his current residence (not enough room IMO) and he shrugged and looked a bit pained about it and said he didn�t think so. I told him not to worry about it until he buys his house. I told him he didn�t need to be in such a rush and to just get his sh*t together first. He agreed and looked a bit relieved.

Honestly...I think it is going to be very tough for him to find a place with the space he wants in his price range but it is not my problem anymore. He really does not realize how tough this is going to be on him for the next few years. I am sure there will come a point when he looks at what he had and thinks that maybe trying to make it work with me would have been much easier than leaving me has been. But that is much further down the road and I�m pretty sure that at that point he will feel like he is too far down this new path to ever consider trying again. I have accepted this. I know that ultimately, the road ahead for me will get easier whereas his will get harder. I also move forward knowing that I did the best I could. He moves forward knowing that this was his choice and he will always be the guy that left his family for some pretty lame reasons. He really does undervalue the love and support he has had all these years. He only sees what was lacking but thinks that it was what was lacking was about me and not about him. I think he will regret his shortsightedness one day but that is not for me to worry about. I have one goal...detachment and creating a good life for me and my kids.

Day two of 2019 and I�m feeling okay. My lawyer appointment is next week and I am looking forward to moving this process along but also dreading it. An official separation agreement seems like a big step that makes it really, really difficult to come back from. I know that even if my H has doubts, he will push through regardless. He texted me early on in this sitch that he felt like he had dug himself a giant hole that he could not get out of. He considered trying to climb out of it but I think it just looked like too hard of a climb so he decided to just keep digging. That hole is really, really deep now.

Anyway... time to get my butt off the couch and get some work done. Still have lots of cans to clean up downstairs and some laundry to do. Much love to you all and hope that 2019 brings some unexpected, pleasant surprises for all of you... recons, new loves, new jobs, new hobbies, new friends and a new and much, much better lives. (((HUGS)))

Journaling...

My kids are with their dad and my S11 texted me to say that he misses me. Made me sad and now I�m having an angry moment. I am missing them like crazy right now. This whole thing is just so unfair. That all off us have to suffer because my H is a broken person. Does he really think this is going to fix what ails him? Hmmm... I don�t feel good so what to do about it? I know... I will tear apart everything my W and I have built and even though she has been my BEST friend for 13 years, I will just get rid of her and start over. That ought to fix it. What a crock of sh*t! Again... you can�t divorce yourself.

Okay...that was my rant of the day. Going back to watching hockey now.

Hey DV,

That's rough to hear from your S. Kids can be more resilient than we give them credit for. Just love on them as much as possible when you can. This is not a competition. Your kids will always figure out the truth.

Hugs!

Really sad this morning. Kids are at their dad�s and the house just seems big and empty and lonely. When we moved here, I thought we were finally going to have that life that I thought we both wanted. I was so happy. My IPhone just sent me a reminder of what I was doing a year ago...pictures of Mexico with my family. That did not help my mood, that�s for sure. I am just really missing my life today. I am missing my kids. And I am missing the person I used to be married to who loved me as much as I loved him. Haven�t felt this sad in awhile. It�s kind of hit me out of the blue.

Yeah it's heartbreaking. I have had the same thing strike me many many times. Talk about kicking someone when they're down!

It's really important to build new memories with your kids going forward. It doesn't help now, but it will in 6 months, 12, months, 2 years... You AND your kids will have other memories so that the old ones will not feel so lonely anymore. It hurts. I too had the perfect home and all the things we ever dreamed of before my wife threw away everything for what amounted to a nine month crush.

Keep DBing and keep going! You and your kids are going to make it!

Thank you Joe. I appreciate your words of encouragement and support. A couple of hours have passed and I�m feeling much better. Reality really does hit hard sometimes when you are not expecting it. I knew I was going through cheeseless tunnels this morning but it sure is hard to stop sometimes.

Thank you for continuing to post on this site. Your story is inspiring to me. Not because your XW realized the folly of her ways and returned truly remorseful but because of how you made it through the hard times when she was gone. My goal is to get through this and still be a hopeful, loving person who is able to trust other people. I don�t want to be a jaded, cynical person however, I have realized that I do need to protect myself a bit more and pay attention to my inner voice when it tells me something isn�t right. There were MANY signs that my H�s character was lacking... even before we got married. But I just told myself that he had learned from his past mistakes and was a different person. I was clearly wrong about that and in my heart of hearts, I think I knew it. I knew that he hadn�t been on his own long enough to have grown and learned from his mistakes. I just didn�t want to believe it because I was so in love with him and I believed that love conquers all and we could grow together. At BD, I realized my H hasn�t grown at all...he has just gotten older.

Hi DV6. I look forward to your updates because I think we are at similar stages in our 'journey' and it gives me comfort to see I'm not the only feeling like this. Every few weeks I have days when I feel very nostalgic; it's not sadness as such. It doesn't last long and is more a feeling of 'is this really the end, have I done everything that I can, is there really no hope, is this a cruel joke, is it a test etc etc. Other days I feel defiant and on others I feel excited. Some days I even forget that I was married as recently as 6 months ago because I can't genuinely remember what that is like. And I have been married for 27 years!!

I too have spent a lot of time looking back and realised that there were indications of this current behaviour previously. I actually think that it's me that's changed, not him. I grew into my 'post children' life which impacted on him and he didn't like it. That created the environment but the choices that he made are 100% to do with his character and I now recall things, callous things against other people, that should have sent up warning flags. Sometimes I think it's a miracle we survived as long as we did.

So, I still have days when I would take him back, no questions asked. It would be an absolute disaster. I know that I am not currently happy. But I also know that I can't go backwards and be happy, so my only choice is to push forwards on my own and trust that direction is the only one where I may find happiness and inner peace. On some days though, it's not actual movement and I stand still, fighting hard to keep facing in the right direction.

I don't think you realise just what a strong and heroic person you are DV6. I so admire your resolve to remain loving and I know that you will succeed in that. I am going to follow you closely because I would like to be like you.

Yorkie... Your post made me tear up. I think you give me too much credit but I thank you. You are an inspiration to me as well. There are many women in your position, after 27 years of marriage, who would just curl up into a ball and �die�. But not you... you are a fighter and because of that, I have no doubt that happiness and inner peace are just around the corner for you.

Your description of your differing days really hit home for me. We are, indeed, at similar stages of our journey as I have had all of those kinds of days...and sometimes all of those feelings in the same day. The excited feeling is the most confusing one for me but also the most hopeful. I have it now as I am writing this. I am acutely aware of this small part of me that is starting to imagine an alternate life for myself. I am not sure it is better yet...but it is different. And it is whatever I want to make it. Maybe that is the �gift� in all of this...the chance to discover who we are all on our own.

It's so easy to look back and see all the stuff we overlooked and missed.

It's just as easy to beat ourselves up over them and think about all the WHAT IF's. If only I had paid her more attention. If only I bought her flowers more. If only we had sex more. If only I listened to what she was REALLY saying. If only if only if only. Or how about: I should have never gotten involved with her because I KNEW it was a bad idea because of XYZ.

Try not to beat yourself up, if you are. It's OK to feel all of the negativity. You actually HAVE to feel it to heal. But there were positive things too!!! There were genuine GOOD times that nobody can take from you. You have your KIDS!!!! You are going to be stronger from this. You learned A LOT! You are GROWING from your situation!

Your children will grow from it too. Love on them as much as you can. Look into their eyes and smile, because you love them and they love you. You are teaching them how to counter adversity with grace, strength, and honor.

You're doing great.

Thank you Joe. That �if only� tunnel is so hard not to go down but I am getting better at avoiding it. I know that I was not a perfect wife, far from it, but I was loyal, committed and honest and I loved my H without question. He was obviously none of those things. Even when we moved and he told me he tried to be happy, he still had one foot out the door as he had already decided that leaving was an option. And when you have one foot out the door for as long as he did, you don�t look for reasons to stay - you look for reasons to go. And you will always find what you are looking for. So I know that this separation was not my doing. My conscience is clear in that regard.

There were a lot of good times and I find that I am remembering them more and more. TJT and Burn were writing about inside jokes and little sayings, etc... that they had with their spouses and how they wouldn�t have that with anyone else. My H and I have a lot of those too. And we have them with our kids. Even now, with all of the awkwardness and tension between us, we still laugh when those things come up. And when our kids do or say something that brings up feelings (pride, joy, sadness), we still look at each other and know that we are thinking the same thing. When it comes to our kids, my H will never share that with someone else and neither will I. Other people may come to love our kids but it won�t be the same for them or for us and, in that respect, we will forever be a family. I think that is one of the reasons they say there is no such thing as divorce when you have kids.

Thanks again for your encouragement and for continuing to follow my thread. It means a lot. (((HUGS)))

Journaling....

My H was by to drop off the kids and wanted to talk. He�s gone ahead and started switching our finances around...basically having his payments transferred to his account, his pay cheque going into his new account, etc... I had noticed he stopped taking money and charging things in about the third week of December so I had a feeling. He is still doing what he has always done. Avoiding conflict and going behind my back to do things without giving me a heads up. Apparently he is out of money and is currently in debt. He told me that he hates �this� (emotionally charged situation) and that he likes me �as a friend�. I asked him if he is happy and he says he is. He seems settled...confident in his choices...the hard part, in his mind, is over and he just has to keep going. I told him I hope it is worth it. He got quiet and his eyes got a bit watery but clearly he must think that it is. Anyway, I got a bit teary when he left but I didn�t lose it like I might have done a month ago. So that�s progress I think. Thinking about the LBS stages, I think I am firmly at Stage 5 and quickly heading to Stage 6. I have no choice. My H is gone...he is resolute and so I have to be as well. To be anything different at this stage of the game would be foolish and I am not a fool.

So...kinda got off the DB track with all of this financial talk. Texted my H that I was trying really hard not to hate him right now. He texted back that he appreciated me �trying� and that he was sorry. So...of course that set me off a bit... texted him not to say sorry as that word has no meaning because it is the equivalent of stabbing someone to death and then saying �oops...didn�t mean to do that�. Also reminded him he has been working towards this for four years and that �this� is exactly what he wanted - �freedom and part-time parenting� and that it is a perfect situation for him. Also said that if he had been remotely honest with me when we first moved, we wouldn�t both be going into debt right now and that he single-handedly ensured that neither of us would be retiring early, there would be a distinct lack of vacations, no big retirement boat and we would not be able to help our kids pay for school as much as we thought so they, too, will have to go into debt...starting with his daughter. I also told him it is his responsibility to tell her as that is not my job anymore. To top it all off, I told him that he doesn�t like me as a friend because he treats his friends 100 times better than he has ever treated me so he can stop saying that too.

You know what? Even though it has probably set us back a bit in the friendly, co-parenting department, it felt really d*mn good to get it off my chest. Honestly... seeing him sitting there drinking his coffee this morning thinking that everything is A-OK just really got to me. Oh yeah... I also told him that I obviously have some unresolved anger toward him that I am working through but that I don�t have his talent for cutting ties with people I loved and walking away so it is going to take some time. Honestly...it�s what he did with his first wife. Bombed her, walked out and never looked back. She didn�t see it coming. Once he makes up his mind, that�s it. Men like him really should come with a warning label... �Danger. Lies effortlessly and will emotionally detach from you at the first sign of trouble, allow resentment to build and then, when he thinks he can get away with it, will abandon you without warning.� I know now that love definitely does not conquer all.

Okay... so this doesn�t sound like loving detachment. It definitely isn�t but ultimately I know that I will eventually get there. I think I just need to get this stuff out of my system first. Once our agreement is signed, I think it will get easier. Right now I am just really irritated by the unfairness of it all and having to go back into debt again. It was glorious to be debt-free for 18 months, that is for sure.

I forgot to add to the warning label that he has the emotional maturity of a middle school student.Maybe teaching teenagers was not the best career choice for him.

DV - Breathe.

Don�t worry about this little blow up. Bet it felt good though.

You have to let off some steam once in a while.

I know he deserves it, and you know you need a different outlet.

It is rough, 18 months debt-free, and now having to go back... hmmm... you know things haven�t happened yet. Try not to borrow trouble, some of that prognosticating might not come to pass.

W and I achieved our perfect life, more money than we needed, job security, parents were looked after, kids doing great in school, others off to university, planning and looking forward to vacations and retirement. It lasted for two days, then kaboom. I thought a lot of dire things, very few happened, and those that did, really turn out to not be that dire.

So you think not the best step in loving detachment. Maybe I can reframe that a bit for you.

Seeing you, him, and your situation accurately is very important. That will root out denial, both in thought and heart, and even beliefs. And by the way, somethings get right deep inside you when you are broken open, right to your core. It can take some effort to see them and extract them. My W gifted me with some various poisons that I accepted in my broken state. It took a while to rid myself of that.

You are seeing your situation accurately, so of course you�re p!ssed. Good for you! You cannot detach your feelings until you recognize them. You also have to get through the anger to find the love again.

I want you to read that last bit again.

You are feeling your feelings. That�s good. Now recognize them, this is the intellectual part. See your feelings for what they are. Why they are. This uncouples the feelings from H. It is fine to feel angry, understand why.

Detachment is understanding you cause your feelings, not H, not some place, not some song, not some memory. You take back control of your feeling self.

Keep your mental assertiveness sharp, and stay accurate. You are making good progress, look how quick you recovered.

Don�t dwell or fret over tonight, it is in the past, let it go. No one thing will make or break this, it really won�t. Learn from it, and keep moving forward. Beside, you did said some stuff he really needed to hear. However, it is probably best to hold off on more of that, for a while.

DnJ

DnJ... Sad to say but it didn�t feel good... it felt GREAT!!!

Okay... in all seriousness, I�m not too worried that this has set us back. If my H is clear on anything, it is that he deserves anything and everything that I throw at him and, considering the things I could have said, he still got off pretty easily. As AS wrote in his post about stages, I do feel like maybe I am coming out of the LBS fog a bit. Seeing things more accurately. Things haven�t happened yet but they will in the next few months. It is not dire, it is just all so unnecessary...it did not have to happen and it would not have happened if my H had tried to live up to even half of his promises. But he chose this... all of it... and he didn�t have enough respect for me or our family to warn me in any way. He just took what he could get and only made his escape when he thought he could reasonably get away with it. He has deluded himself into thinking that this was for me... that he break my heart when we are living closer to my family and friends so I would be �okay�.

His mom came up to talk to me a little while ago. I told her about my rant. She empathized with me and said she had many of the same feelings with his dad. Said that my H keeps telling her �sorry� as well and it isn�t enough for her either and she is still angry too. I told her that once he really crunches the numbers, I don�t think he is going to end up buying a place and that he will probably just rent and blow through the money I gave him. She said, �yeah...and then wait for me to die so he can buy a place then.� Isn�t that a nice thought to have about your only child? I hope she lives to be 100!!! I have an aunt who is 102 so it is definitely possible and she is pretty healthy for an 80 year old. I don�t know what I would do if something happened to her in the next couple of years. She has been my rock and has kept me sane... not just since my H physically left but since he emotionally left which was, in fact, years ago.

Thank you for your wonderful take on all of this. You pointed out that I was quick to recover and you were right. Even now I am smiling as I write this. I am okay and I know I will be okay. (((HUGS)))

Hi DV

Could you paste a link to the stages you referred to.

I am glad you appreciated my take on all this. I would like to point out one more thing.

I care about you. All this is for you, not H.

(((DejaVu)))

I also hope she lives to 100!

DnJ

Here you go DnJ... it�s about 3/4 the way down... http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2819739&page=3

More journaling...

Gosh... when my brain gets going... maybe the fog is lifting a bit more. I was just thinking back on my marriage and I realized that in 11, almost 12 years of marriage, I can think of one occasion when my H invited me out with him and a friend and one occasion where we went to his staff Christmas party. That is twice in 12 years of marriage! Is that not strange? I remember that we used to do poker night with some friends from my work but they lived quite far away and it got to be onerous once we all started having kids. I didn�t really have too many friends because I had moved there to be with my H. But he had grown up there. He had lots of friends and I remember he would usually go out about once or twice a month to do something with somebody. The only friends I ever really met were the ones that came to visit him at our home (mostly childhood friends) or ones that we accidentally bumped into. Wow...really having a moment here. More of the fog lifting I think. I keep thinking about all the people I know who have good marriages and the one thing I keep coming back to is that they have a good partnership and a friendship. They like hanging out together. They do things with other couples...go out, take vacations, etc... The more I think about this, the more I realize that my H and I did almost none of that. He stopped liking my company soon after we had kids. Needed his alone time and space and I gave him all of that. When we were together, he seemed irritable, stressed and pressured...always in a hurry. The more I remember, the more I think that I have been deluding myself about the person that I married and the marriage that I had. It is really painful to think about this stuff. I put up with so much crap. I was essentially ignored for years. Honestly...I should be the WAS.

And you need to live in reality. Real life, you are the lighthouse DjV! I started reading your last posts with tears and now I have an evil smile...I�m keeping it! You can�t rescue H girl, he must do it if he figures out his road...

Keep walking girl, keep shining!

(((DjV)))

Well, DV6 it must be the week for it. Something FS said on her post resonated with me and I felt a huge amount of fog lift and now you.

"Honestly, I should be the WAS"

I realise I was the WAS in every way but geographically. I checked out of the marriage some time ago. For 20 plus years we bumbled along busy with kids. It was them that connected us. When they grew I looked outside my marriage for connections; colleagues friends etc etc because nothing he offered interested me anymore. We'd been a good team; I wanted to raise a family and be supermom; he wanted to be adored, worshipped and respected as the great provider. I didn't want that anymore. I wanted to be successful in something other than being a Mum. He wanted things to carry on as they were. So, I checked out and did my own thing and we co existed. He'd always done his own thing and I didn't care because I had my boys. I don't offer what he wants anymore and vice versa.

Why o Why did he have too cause so much hurt and go off and have an affair and ruin so many other relationships. It is a sign of his character.

So, I wonder if once your kids have grown and you'd still been in your marriage, you would have also checked out like I did. I just think that this has happened earlier in your R then it did for me.

Would I have a R with my H if I met him for the 1st time today. Probably not, we are very different people and want very different things.

All I can say is that if this is also true for you and your H then what a shame that they are so flipping cowardly that when they realised their feeling, they couldn't do this decently and instead had to lie, manipulate and hurt people.

DV - The darkest times for me (apart from when he was living here) was when my H started taking the kids overnight. I felt exactly the same way as you. Like you and your H, I had gotten used to him not being around (different reasons obviously) but the absence of the children, damn that was hard to take. A second kick in the teeth. The void was huge ... I would rattle around this house like a lost soul trying to find a purpose. And the mind tunnels. Were they having more fun without me?, what were they doing? HOW could they be having fun without me? My H was so thoughtless, he would send me photos from their days out (look, here's us out to dinner and here's one of us skating) The first night he sent me a photo of the three of them with face masks on. When I went to pick them up for the first time he had made them pancakes and had fresh fruit on the side. He had braided their hair. All I could think was when he lived here he spent the night in his chair in front of the TV and it was me entertaining the children. It was me who got up half an hour early so that I could have their breakfast ready and he had never, in the 12 years we had had children, done either of their hair.

But he wasn't being thoughtless. He was trying to be thoughtful by sending me the photos. He wasn't suddenly pretending to be a dad. He was actually trying to be a dad.

Sometimes DV, we can't control what is happening. But we CAN control how we perceive it. Try and think of this from a different point of view. Don't think about what you are missing out on ... think about what you and your children are gaining. You are gaining time on your own. Use it to find you. Do a cooking course, train for a marathon, join a group you would never have joined before. Your children are (hopefully) getting their father back and this can only be a good thing. When you have the children you will be more present (not running around getting the housework done, or the laundry or running errands) and you can spend that time with them not just in their presence but actually with them even if it's just sitting down watching a DVD.

You have managed to crawl your way out of the 'why doesn't he love me tunnel'. Don't get stuck in the 'I'm losing my children' tunnel. You will not lose them. They love you. That we can all see.

Neffer - I am happy I made you smile. Not sure about the EVIL smile though...lol.

Yorkie - Really thinking a lot about the questions you asked me. In a sense, I was checked out of our marriage but not because I didn�t find him interesting or want to spend time with him. I checked out because I had to. I think I have written before about where most of my anger towards my H comes from. He left me years ago...first emotionally and then physically with all of his �nightly treatments�. I missed him terribly. Those years were awful. I was really just on auto pilot. I had no social life at all. On the odd occasion I would get invited out by my kids� friends� moms but that was about it. That probably happened once or twice a year. I had a long commute so I probably got about three hours a night with my kids. We were living pay cheque to pay cheque and had to take on an international student (met some great kids) to make ends meet so that was an extra responsibility. On weekends, I would get caught up with household chores. When my H was home, he would either take the kids somewhere to give me a �break� or he would be working on one of his hobbies. He rarely helped out with the house and if he did, it was because me or his mom asked him to. This usually made him quite irritable and resentful though so after awhile we stopped asking and just did it ourselves.

When we moved, I thought it would be a great new beginning for us. We had a new home so very little work needed to be done. We could afford to pay someone to clean our bathrooms and mop our floors so household chores were minimized. No more students or living pay cheque to pay cheque. Life was good. Only my husband was still checked out. In hindsight, I should have tried to do something about it but I naively thought it would just get better with time. Clearly it did not. My H had one foot out the door and was just biding his time until he felt he had sufficient justification to leave. The person I loved and the person who loved me no longer exists. It has taken me awhile to accept that... I think I am about 80% there. The other 20% will come in time. Finalizing this separation agreement will help with that immensely, I think.

Would I have an R if I met my H for the first time? Honestly... I probably would. The things that attracted me to him in the first place are still there. When he wasn�t resentful and broody, he was a lot of fun to be around. He has a good sense of humour and is crazy talented at a lot of things. He�s reasonably attractive and he�s pretty smart and easy to talk to. The parts of his personality that made him a crap husband are not readily apparent. One would have to be in a long term relationship with him to figure those out.

Thank you FS. The one thing I know my H is doing is trying to be a good dad. Like you, I had all of those thoughts too. When we were together, he checked out on them too so I am glad for them that they have him back. The angry thoughts about �why couldn�t he have been like that when we were together� have faded significantly and I am adjusting to the new normal. GAL plans and activities are in the works and I intend to make 2019 a good year. I�m becoming more aware of the �tunnels� and am happy to say that I don�t go down them very often anymore and when I do, it is only for a very short distance. I am looking forward to the day when the tunnels no longer exist.

I know I am not losing my kids and we have lots of good times ahead of us. I am just sad for them that they don�t get to have the experience of growing up in a happy two-parent home the way I did. I really wanted that for them. But I know that I have the opportunity to teach them that life doesn�t always go the way we want it to and you can still be happy and rise above. You can forgive and treat people with kindness - even when they haven�t necessarily treated you that way in return. And I can teach them that happiness and life satisfaction is something you find within you and not something you get from other people. Those are important and valuable lessons that not everyone learns - particularly at such a young age. So life has given me some lemons and now I just have to make lemonade.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

So life has given me some lemons and now I just have to make lemonade.

May I make a correction?

So life has given me some lemons and now I just have to make lemonade Limoncello.

Not a fan of limoncello but I do like the sentiment Yail.

DV - you are one of the best mums I don't know. It won't matter if your kids grow up in a two parent family, one parent family or blended family. They have already won.

You�re doing great DJ! I love the attitude in your postings.

There are going to be days where you backslide, but they will become further and further apart.

One time after a couple weeks of feeling fine, I accidentally burned a pastry and completely broke down. I stood next to the trash can eating the less-burnt parts of the snack sobbing and thinking about how I can�t even toast a damn pastry. How am I supposed to go on and be a good parent? I got my sht together a few minutes later and immediately made plans to go out with my best friend.

That�s an important thing, too. Friends. Interacting with other people. Getting out there and making connections. They don�t have to be deep BFF�s, they don�t have to be romantic, they don�t have to be with any purpose other than to experience that the world has much much much more to offer! Even some of the people from my divorce therapy group became my friends and I keep in touch with them often.

It�s going to be OK!

FS - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I don�t always feel like a great mom but last night I heard my kids say good-night to each other and then �I love you� and �I love you more.� That was a proud mommy moment.

Joe - Thanks. I don�t know why but backslide days seem to follow really good attitude days. It�s almost like there is a part of me that doesn�t want to completely let my H go which is crazy to me because 1) he was incredibly dishonest and neglectful and 2) he is already gone...and he was gone a long time before BD. So it is more like I miss the idea of him than I miss him. My MIL and I were talking last night and we both remember that he wasn�t particularly fun to be around. So the part of me that doesn�t want to let him go is really starting to annoy me because believe me, I WANT TO LET HIM GO... for real. And there are days when I feel like I have. And then there are days when I just miss him and my head is swirling with 13 years of memories and feelings. How he just walks away from that with barely a second glance is almost incomprehensible. Clearly we are very different people. I knew that... I just didn�t know how different.

WHy is it that things always just hit you out of the blue. Pretty good day today. Did some arts and crafts with my D11 while her brother had a friend over. My sister was here as well and my BIL joined us for dinner. But I�ve just been struggling for the last couple of hours. A bit of a headache and then just feeling really blue. Had to leave my living room and hide out in my MBR to have a bit of a cry. I was thinking about my H and all the chances we had to change the trajectory of our M. We were so in love once. I know... cheeseless tunnel. Just peaking in the door.

My MIL says that some people just aren�t cut out for marriage or long term relationships and she thinks my H is one of those people. He�s great in the short term but when things get hard or routine, he�s looking for a way out. She even said that if I got something like cancer, she doesn�t think he would have been able to deal with it. His own mother thinks he is the kind of guy who would cut out on a sick wife. She thinks that he is like this because he never had the experience of living on his own and having to fend for himself the way most people do in their 20s so that is what he is doing now. Going back and trying to do it over.

Really need to get out of this funk. Going to go cuddle with my kids.

(((DV6)))

I have random breakdown moments as well. Just let it happen, and you'll come out of it naturally. The grief process for what we're going through is a long one.

Thanks P9. I appreciate the hugs. This really is a process, isn�t it? Some days I just feel so strong and others... I just want my family back together again. If there is one thing that I am going to try to do better in the future, it is to be more present and in the moment and to make sure the people I love FEEL loved by me. The last few years, I have been on auto pilot and that�s no way to live. So even though I am going through a lot of pain right now and I would love to just skip over it, I think it is important to really feel it... strange as that may be. My H appears to have skipped that part...I think he is just so relieved to not be living a lie anymore that he has barely considered just how much his life is going to change over the long term. It won�t all be good either.

Hey DV - Sometimes it is the very littlest things that have the power to set us back. If it helps, these moments happen less and less over time. My H called me at 11:30 last night. The phone only rang twice before it cut off. It reminded me he always use to call me at night before he went to bed and that sometimes I would let it ring out because I was already in bed and wanted to go to sleep or cut the phone call short because I wanted to get back to my movie or book. Anyway, like you say, things could have been so different if we had just known. But we didn't know. We can't go back and fix it. We can only move forward. Move forward with love.

Having said that, grief is a process. We can't stop it from entering. Trying to do so when it is so desperate to come in is futile. So you are right, when it wants to come in, feel it, but, and I mean this kindly, don't allow yourself to stew in it.

Let it in, allow yourself to feel it, then tell it to go. Mentally write it on a piece of paper then visualise standing on the top of a mountain and letting the wind take the paper away. Feel the coolness of the wind as it does this.

If you can't do this on your own, then (and I know I've said this before), try one of the guided meditations on YouTube. There are really good ones on there about learning to let go, releasing your fears and healing a broken heart. It is 30 minutes before you go to sleep. Try it for a couple of days ... if it doesn't help then all you've lost is a few hours.

In this new year, let go of the things that no longer serve you. Oh, and try and balance the grief with good moments. Building new memories with your children is a good start. Don't forget to build new memories on your own too - not just as DV the mum, an awesome a mum as I know you are.

Oh, and I know your MIL is trying to help but IMHO, someone telling you that your H 'would walk out on his sick wife' is not what you need right now. You do not need someone to validate your resentment. It will keep you in that hole longer. You need to get out.

Good Morning DV

Originally Posted by FlySolo

I know your MIL is trying to help but IMHO, someone telling you that your H 'would walk out on his sick wife' is not what you need right now. You do not need someone to validate your resentment.

Amen to that.

Everyone seeks answers and reasons for what happened, friends, family, MIL, everyone. A lot of these answers or reasons lack understanding. This is pretty darn alien to most people, cannot expect them to understand. Most want a narrative they can accept and get on with things.

You will find understanding of your situation, that will most likely be at first, different from understanding of the situation. That�s one of the reasons that being patient and letting answers present themselves is such good advice.

Be careful DV, you are broken, things can easily get deep within yourself right now, and they are devilishly hard to remove later. Conversely, you can remove or modify some of those things you don�t really like. This is a golden opportunity if you choose it to be.

Do you really �believe� your H, the man of 13 years ago, for many of those years, would actually walk out on a sick you? Or is it just a quick easy answer that can allow you to move on?

Moving forward is different than moving on. In my experience, most everyone moved on with their lives after W blew up, very few moved forward.

Do not feed your resentment, feelings, they will pass. Grieve and move forward. Use this gift of time you have been granted. Focus on you, work on you.

Those out of the blue moments that drag you back. Welcome them. Those are your subconscious mind accepting, pushing back denial, challenging, seeing clearly. Like most things in life we see the bad of a situation first, then the good shows through (if you are still looking). FWIW, from my point of view, these backslides are needed and misnamed. This is forward progress, those bumps are in front of you.

Be patient, focus, and keep moving forward.

DnJ

Thanks FS & DnJ.

I woke up feeling much better this morning. Had a lazy day at home watching movies and doing some painting (Xmas village houses) with my sister and D11. My sadness from yesterday has faded somewhat. Despite all the crappy things my H has done, I don�t spend a lot of time resenting him as I know it doesn�t do me or my kids any good. Do I think my H would really walk out on his sick wife of 13 years? Funny... I actually asked him what he would do if I got really sick. If he had asked me this question, I would not have hesitated. Of course, I would be there for you. His answer? �I don�t know what I would do.� So would he? Ummm... I�d say 50/50 chance of it. He has spent four years resenting me for what I don�t know...but he seems to have some reasons that he�s not really able to articulate... or they seem lame when he says them outloud so he just doesn�t. There are not a lot of good reasons for breaking up a family.

I agree with you DnJ about the sadness being denial pushed back. And I am moving forward. I have not choice and I am not someone who is comfortable with letting negativity reign. Forgiveness is always my goal. My H knows this... he is counting on it.

Tuesday is my first lawyer meeting. I am dreading it and looking forward to it all at the same time. It is one more step toward D and also one step closer to detachment. Hopefully we can come to an agreement soon. My H is anxious to buy a house and go deeply in debt for life. Yep... I�d be in a rush too. [insert eye roll]

Anyway...off to get my kids going on their bedtime routines. Back to school and work tomorrow. Ugh.

Love and (((HUGS))) to all!!

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

There are not a lot of good reasons for breaking up a family.

(((DV6))) I�m so sorry to hear, and I agree with what I quoted above.

I have something similar, perhaps: I�ve been with W through 2 pregnancies, and a TON of dental work for her (she hates the dentist)�so taking care of her after she would go to the dentist, listen to her anxieties / fears, as well as the financial costs of that. I stuck by her through all that, though I admit that I got grumbly at first about the financial aspects of her dental work, but for me it faded into acceptance and dealing with it. But if she leaves guess who has to deal with it?!?!?

I threw out my back back in February�probably around the time when things really started to go south with W. What did she say to me? �I wish I loved you enough to want to take care of you.�

Like you, I should probably lawyer up�that�s gonna be one of the projects for the first part of my week, now that a new semester of teaching is starting for me.

Hugs.

I can�t believe your W said that to you Bo. Bizarre. Although that�s probably what my H was thinking when I asked him that question. Amazing since I have stood by him for four years of his FAKE treatment schedule. I will never know the truth but I suspect that he was getting treatment about 10% of the first two and half years that he said he was and about 2% of the last 7 months. Since I learned about his lying, he has been to the hospital three maybe four times in four months. I am still incredulous at the thought of that. You think after 13 years together, that you would know someone. I don�t know my H at all. I�m not sure anyone does.

Good luck with finding a lawyer. Sorry that you need one.

(((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by Yail

So life has given me some lemons and now I just have to make lemonade Limoncello.

I like it! I just, for the first time, am making my own! Just bottled it last night, and will wait 1 - 2 weeks to taste it. Cheers!

DejaVu - I don't post as much as I did in the beginning, but I check in on everyone from time to time. I can perfectly relate how the switch in feelings come right out of the blue. I am mostly at peace, and content with my life. I even told a friend last weekend that I really feel like in the end, I will not end up a divorced woman. Wishful thinking perhaps, but just a feeling that was there. Then, a few days later, the desperation and questions set in. How long do I let this go on with NC? How can we even thing about starting to work on M with we don�t have any meaningful contact? Does H even think about R. Do any tender feelings for me remain?
No indication from him on anything. Just started month 4 with him out. But, no mention of talking or D. But, I reached out to an attorney just to meet them �just in case�. I�m trying to be logical and smart, and not let my feelings cloud reality. It�s tough, though.

Hugs.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

Also said that if he had been remotely honest with me when we first moved, we wouldn�t both be going into debt right now and that he single-handedly ensured that neither of us would be retiring early, there would be a distinct lack of vacations, no big retirement boat and we would not be able to help our kids pay for school as much as we thought so they, too, will have to go into debt...starting with his daughter.

I can definitely relate to this. I think this is what a lot of us really resent about our situations is our future has been shot to hell. A future we've been planning on and working towards for years or even decades. It's absolutely amazing how quickly something like that can unwind. The only thing I'll counsel on this is try not to blame your H. What I came to realize out of my sitch is my ex wasn't responsible for my future and my retirement planning, she never was. I was planning for a future that was never going to happen! I made too many assumptions and acted accordingly. In retrospect had I known what was going to happen I could have insulated myself (and my kids) from it better. There were things I spent money on over the years that I didn't need to, I only did it because I believed the illusion that my financial situation would stay the same forever. I believed we were "two made one" but no one should ever see a marriage that way. Marriage is two people in a partnership, and like any partnership, either party can dissolve it at any time. So you work to maintain the partnership, while also being mindful of the fact that you are two separate parties in a relationship and that you need to plan for the future together AND separately.

If telling him off made you feel better then that's fine, sometimes we need that. But if your words had any impact on him at all it was probably a negative one. He doesn't need to be lectured on how terrible he is, it just makes you look like the bad guy to him. And deep inside he KNOWS he's terrible and in the wrong. Maybe he'll face that down some day and maybe he won't, but that's his journey to make and you can't speed him along on it.

Quote

Right now I am just really irritated by the unfairness of it all and having to go back into debt again. It was glorious to be debt-free for 18 months, that is for sure.

My ex and I always maintained separate bank accounts. A couple of years before BD I used my savings to pay off the rest of our home loan. For one of her Christmas gifts I gave her the loan form they had sent me stamped "paid in full". When she opened it she had a funny look on her face, wasn't as thrilled as I thought she would be! She said she didn't understand and I told her I had paid off the house and we were 100% debt free. Little did I know she had secretly accumulated 70k in credit card debt over a span of 10+ years. She didn't disclose that until months later, and it was then that I realized why she wasn't excited about being "debt free" because we weren't. Ugh. We eventually paid off her debt but BD followed not too long after and now I have another loan on the house. So I'm right there with you!

Quote

I keep thinking about all the people I know who have good marriages and the one thing I keep coming back to is that they have a good partnership and a friendship.

There are a lot of people out there that are faking it, some quite effectively. I can't tell you how many "happy" couples I've seen motoring along and then all of a sudden BOOM the bomb drops. Then all the usual "I was never happy, I've been unhappy for years, this was never going to work" comments. There are a lot of ticking time bombs out there masquerading as happy marriages.

Quote

The more I think about this, the more I realize that my H and I did almost none of that. He stopped liking my company soon after we had kids. Needed his alone time and space and I gave him all of that. When we were together, he seemed irritable, stressed and pressured...always in a hurry. The more I remember, the more I think that I have been deluding myself about the person that I married and the marriage that I had. It is really painful to think about this stuff. I put up with so much crap. I was essentially ignored for years. Honestly...I should be the WAS.

Yeah that does not sound normal or healthy. Sounds like you had blinders on for the sake of the M. The last comment that maybe you should have been the WAS, that's a strong sign you are coming out of the fog. Because most of us here would have said the same before BD. BD triggers something in us- something that makes us forget how bad (or maybe just "bland") things were, makes us remember nothing but good things and make us want to do anything to save the M. Once we start remembering that things weren't so great after all, that is when we know we're on the path to recovery.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Once we start remembering that things weren't so great after all, that is when we know we're on the path to recovery.

Boy did this ring true for me! I've put a whole lot of thought into this over the last 4 months, after I stopped the desperate pursuing to save the marriage. Although I still want to reconcile, I want a totally new relationship with H. No movement in any direction, so I still have the gift of time to continue to self-examine and evolve. I wonder if H has/is doing any of that?

AS - Thanks for taking the time to post on my thread. You gave me a lot to think about. I have definitely learned that assumptions are a set up and I will not make that mistake again. Going back into debt is something I thought I would avoid so it is definitely an adjustment. I think what stings the most, however, is that by pretending to be in nightly treatments for an illness (so embarrassed still that I was that gullible), my H basically robbed me of the opportunity to do anything to either work on the relationship or walk away from it of my own volition. He basically pushed pause and left me to deal with all of the house and child responsibilities until he felt ready to leave. I was starving for affection from him but felt I didn't have the right to ask anything of him because of his illness and the impact that stress has on it. So I just suffered in silence... for years. And now that the secret is out, he just wants everyone to adjust their lives accordingly, forget that he played us for fools for four YEARS and have 50% time with the same kids he basically ignored for all of that time. It is a really, really tough pill to swallow. But...I am working on it... for my sake and for my kids' sake. They need me to be okay.

I saw my doctor this morning. Her H "checked out" after 21 years when her kids were young teens. It was 16 years ago though so she is long past it. She empathized with me big time. Says people are very good at lying when they need to be.

Grace - I hope your H is doing the work. I don't think my H is. I think he thinks that once he has checked off a bunch of logistical goals... [1. Dump wife, 2. Get wife to buy me out. 3. Get 50% custody and avoid child support payments 4. Buy house and go into debt. etc...] he will be XH 2.0 and won't really need to look inwards. After all, his unhappiness was about being married to me. It could not have had anything to do with the fact that he emotionally abandoned me the second real life stressor showed up (kids, bills, household responsibilities, etc...) or that he has no real moral code or value system to guide his decision making. Clearly he does not believe in loyalty, commitment and honesty. I don't think those three things are even in his top 10.

I think if you keep doing what you are doing and giving your H space, he will find his way back and want to have a MR 2.0 as well. It's just going to depend on whether or not you do by the time he does.

Hi Deja,
I don�t come up here to newcomers that often, but I�ll admit, your thread is one that I creep on. So much of what you are going through resonates with me. My ex wasn�t sick and getting treatments, but he was involved in a big lawsuit that took priority over everything else for years. As such, I stepped back as the wife who had needs and wants and completely twisted myself into a million knots trying to please my ex so he wouldn�t be too stressed out during the trying time. It was tough. So, after he lost the lawsuit, and declared his unhappiness with ME (the one who was there through thick and thin) and manipulated me to leave the home (huge mistake on my part), he moved on with his life completely unscathed and unphased by the destruction he has caused. To this day (almost 4 years later) I can�t wrap my head around his lack of emotion of the whole experience. I�ve tried to rationalize it in a million ways, but it�s futile. I�m also his second wife. Oh and my ex also had that martyr personality where pre-separation, he felt like he still was so dutiful to others, he even funded a women�s abortion. To this day I�m not even sure that kid wasn�t his. Anyway......this is not about me... I just know it�s comforting to know that there are others out there who have been in similar camps.

I know how hard it all is... and for what it�s worth, you are doing well. Keep moving forward with love and integrity and you will be ok. You will be the role model for your kids and you will survive this.

Just know you have people in your corner rooting for you from afar.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

I think if you keep doing what you are doing and giving your H space, he will find his way back and want to have a MR 2.0 as well. It's just going to depend on whether or not you do by the time he does.

This is good advice DV. None of us here could have put it any better.

I will add focus on you and your own healing for a bit. As long as your H does right by your children, then fcuk him, his motivations and whether he feels guilty or ashamed or alone or whatever. Right now none of it matters. The only thing that matters is you and the kids. Yes, there will be unavoidable contact and communication. Deal with these quickly and as efficiently as you can and then carry on with your day. Right now you need to get out of the tunnels so you can see the light and breath the air again. Holding on to his every action both past and present does not help you. First you need to find you and the only way to do that is to GAL and detach. Once you've found you you will be in a better position to look at the past (and the present) in an objective way. Then forgiveness will come. You will also forgive yourself.

Did you ever contact the women you met before christmas? If not, you so should. Invite them out for a jazz night, or a comedy night or a play, or even just a movie.

Hugs DV.

Hi Deja,
I havent posted in awhile but still learn a lot and feel a connection to you and others. You�re pain and anger at you�re situation with you�re H and you�re stories of moments and days where you are happy and remember and can love yourself give me hope. I have been praying for you and other people on this board, mostly for Reconcilliation and also for healing and happiness and a bright future no matter what happens. I�m glad you have a sister who is a big support to you, I wouldn�t know what I would do without my sisters. But I also dont want my sisters to hate my H, its not easy. My H and I have had a crazy time since the BD, he got stabbed, was in the hospital and missed TGing. Over Christmas hid Dad fell and we spent most of the holiday visiting him, yesterday he passed away, We still have so much to work through in MCing and even then I dont know if I can get past the betrayal and the hurt he has caused me. I�m trying to be supportive but at times want to call it quits, we both are estranged to one another. I guess what I would say to you from someone whose H still lives in the same house and sleeps in the same bed, is that I have many of the same feelings as you do even though we are together for the most part. I feel like I don�t know him, he led a charade and then blamed me for the reason he bottled it up and never told me he was unhappy. ( I was always too sensitive apparently). Eventually in therapy he will have to admit that what did was shitty and a lame excuse, i blamed myself and beat myself up at first but MCing has opened up my eyes to how many issues he has and it has been very empowering for me. I was petrified to go to MC and im grateful i faced my fear and went, it has been validating for me and if nothing else will help me to move on if we do D. All of youre feelings are valid and spot on I guess is what im trying to say although im sure you know that. But I really want you to know it in youre heart of hearts. So much of this is about our H�s and not about us, it sounds so cliche and redundant but it is the truth! Anyhoo im wishing you all the best in 2019. Thank you for pouring youre thoughts and feeling out on this board, you have helped me and I know you have helped others not feel so alone.

Originally Posted by Grace21

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Once we start remembering that things weren't so great after all, that is when we know we're on the path to recovery.

Probably not, the WAS's timeline to recovery is a lot longer than the LBS's. I don't think they even start to do their work until the LBS has nearly finished theirs. I'm pretty vocal around here about the fact that a lot of recons end up in the bin because by the time the WAS wants to recon, the LBS is done with them. And I think this disparity in timelines is a big reason for it. If both did the work and recovered around the same time I think the recon prospects would be better, but the WAS lags so far behind that the LBS goes on to a new life by then.

Pax_luv - You can creep on my thread anytime. Thank-you for your support. I know very well the feeling of twisting yourself into knots and trying to make everything okay for your spouse who is going through a rough time. It makes the betrayal ten times harder to accept when you so consciously put your needs aside for such a long time. It�s like you gave up your right to feel unhappy because you think it is something outside of your control that is creating the problem. And then you find out that no, your H was actually blaming you. It is a horrible feeling. My H was very emotional when this all started but now he is just steadfast and in a rush to get all the t�s crossed and the i�s dotted on our separation agreement.

FS - That woman I met was supposed to come to my NYE party but got stuck doing something with family. She texted me the next morning to apologize and I texted her back and asked if she wanted to come by for a glass of wine. Haven�t heard from her since. My sister has a meeting tomorrow that she will likely be at so she is going to say �hi� for me.

Sansa - I have read your thread as well. It seems like a lot of the WAS�s and WS�s on here are conflict avoidant and tend to bottle up their feelings with very little communication prior to BD. Part of me wishes my H was still in the home but another part is glad he is not. I miss the man I married but the guy I�ve been married to since our kids were born is very different. He slowly checked out. Stopped being interested in me. My sister said to me tonight that �he didn�t include you in his life at all.� I don�t think he was prepared for how our lives would change when we had our kids. All of a sudden there was a lot more real life work and responsibilities to deal with and he resented me for it. Thank you for your kind words. I don�t know what I would do without this community of people to tell my feelings and thoughts to. If it helps people feel more hopeful and not so alone, that is an extra blessing. I hope that your MC helps to clarify things for you. (((HUGS)))

AS - That makes sense to me. My H has no reason to do any work right now. He is too focused on getting going on his �new life� to look inwards. It�s also way too painful. I think he was doing much more self reflection at the beginning of this. That�s pretty much by the wayside now.

So I am glad I went to pool tonight. I had fun and we had lots of laughs. It felt good to laugh. I am blessed to have so many friends who care about me. Tomorrow is my first lawyer appointment. It is going to be an interesting day.

(((HUGS))) to all.

Hi DV6! I'm just checking in again after being away for a while. It's great to read about your GAL, the friends who support you and your positive attitude! That's the way to do it!

Good luck today with the L.

Originally Posted by DV6

It seems like a lot of the WAS�s and WS�s on here are conflict avoidant and tend to bottle up their feelings with very little communication prior to BD. Part of me wishes my H was still in the home but another part is glad he is not. I miss the man I married but the guy I�ve been married to since our kids were born is very different. He slowly checked out. Stopped being interested in me. My sister said to me tonight that �he didn�t include you in his life at all.� I don�t think he was prepared for how our lives would change when we had our kids. All of a sudden there was a lot more real life work and responsibilities to deal with and he resented me for it.

That sounds SO much like my sitch as well. DV6 one thing I will tell you I found about appt's with my L. I go in dreading them, thoughts of "why am I here?", "I can't believe it's come to this", but then strangely every single time I've left, I've actually been happy. Perhaps it's that the discussion helps reveal to me the light at the end of the tunnel I'm seeking and a future free from the current dysfunction I'm living through. I hope once your appt is concluded you'll have the same feelings of hope.

-B

Thanks Davide & Ballast. I am hoping the L appointment will be a positive thing. I still struggle with the idea that it has come to this... that my H is so determined to blow everything up and make life hard again without any attempt to save the marriage and preserve our family. I don�t want this...never even considered S or D even when I was at my lowest point in our marriage. But I accept that I cannot control this and I have no other choice but to move forward and try my best to make a new and better life for me and my kids. I hope there are good things ahead for us. (((HUGS)))

DV6, yep I COMPLETELY felt the exact same way every time I had to go to see my L. The only thing I can say is that I had to accept as you say and do whatever I have to in order to protect my rights and interests with my D. It helps to fashion that you are there for your family and not that it is due to your H's decision.

Originally Posted by DV6

I still struggle with the idea that it has come to this... that my H is so determined to blow everything up and make life hard again without any attempt to save the marriage and preserve our family. I don�t want this...never even considered S or D even when I was at my lowest point in our marriage.

Completely agree with every single word of that!!

-B

Well...that was awkward. Just had a text conversation with my H's half sister who was inviting us to their dad's surprise 80th birthday party. Had to tell her we are separated. She had NO idea despite the fact that my H has been talking to his dad regularly. Not surprised though...his dad would have lots of questions and my H would have to do some more lying in order to save face so he hasn't told him anything. My SIL said she thinks there is something wrong with H and he needs help... he apparently got into a HUGE Facebook fight with their brother (H's half brother) a couple of days ago and now he has deleted his Facebook or at least blocked the family members. Funny...he told me he deleted Facebook years ago but I think he just blocked me because he didn't want me involved in "his life". I have confronted him on this a number of times... he has denied it every time and continues to even after all of his lies came to light. His last story was that he tried to add me but it wouldn't let him. Not sure he knows what is real and what is not anymore. He simply cannot tell the truth if it puts him in a bad light. He basically lies by omission until someone forces him to give an answer and then he makes something up while providing as little info as possible. Makes me wonder how far back this behaviour goes... It is a terrible way to live, that is for sure. I just couldn't do it. Makes me really sad because I know that he does have a heart in there somewhere... I see it when he is with our kids.

So...appointment with lawyer over. Basically agreed to most things my H wanted we a few corrections on some of the facts. I liked her. She wasn�t trying to make a lot of money off of me. Apparently his lawyer has the reputation. And she is quite argumentative. There was a lot of things written into the agreement that my L said was completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the separation. Anyway...it should be over and done with soon and my H can go looking for his greener grass.

I came home and my MIL had made me and my kids dinner. I love her. She has been my rock. I don�t know what I would do without her these past few years. She has been trying to talk to my H more. He complains to her sometimes. Said something to the effect that is tough being the guy that �everybody� hates. She has no idea who everybody is. He says people make a lot of assumptions about him and his mom told him it�s because he doesn�t tell people things about himself. He says he is �private�. There is a difference between being private and secretive. My H is the latter. You also can�t tell people much if you have four years worth of lies to keep track of. Must have been a hellish existance but it was self-created so I can�t feel too sorry for him. So strange that I do though.

Feeling kinda down this morning. I think the visit to the lawyer and my conversation with H's sister yesterday is still weighing on me a bit. Coming to terms with the reality of my sitch and still grieving the loss of what might have been if only... I know... cheeseless tunnel. I look down at my left hand as I'm typing this and I MISS my wedding ring and what it represented to me. I loved my H without reservation and took my vows very seriously. Commitment, loyalty, honesty... these values are so much a part of me... it is so hard to walk away from that and also to accept how easily my H walked away from me. I don't think he will miss me. He didn't the entire time he was hiding from me so why would he miss me now when he finally has everything he wanted? Anyway...I am going to feel sorry for myself for a couple more minutes and then get on with my day. Sending all of you my love and lots of long distance (((HUGS))).

DV6...once again everything you just wrote I have been living in my sitch. Sometimes even with my ring off there's like a phantom feel like it's still there OR it wants to be there. It is cliche but sincerely you are not alone in your feelings. And your partner's ability to just let everything you had together go...we each have to come to acceptance that there are many things in life perhaps that we will just never be able to understand.

Prayers and hugs to you DV6...hang in there!

-B

DV, sorry you are feeling down! But I'm glad to hear that the two of you are pretty much in agreement on the terms of D, that certainly keeps a bad situation from getting a lot worse. And it's OK to grieve, grieving is NOT a cheeseless tunnel! Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is a cheeseless tunnel. You are doing great- constantly moving forward. Grief is part of it, don't fight it, let it happen!

Sorry it's been a bad day for you DV. These will come. Let them in, feel them, then quietly let them go. They will come back, but less frequently. Eventually, they will occur so rarely that they will take you by surprise. I was walking in a crowd the other day and I suddenly smelled something that reminded me of my H - that I've been playing 'sport' smell he had when he came home from football practice or the gym. Hit me hard. But not with sadness. Just recognition. And then it passed.

Also, one little word stuck out for me in your last post ...

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

I loved my H without reservation and took my vows very seriously.

"loved" ... past tense.

A Freudian slip perhaps. But something worth you taking note of.

Thank you all for your support. I don't always feel like I am doing great but that's because I'm not the most patient person in the world and I always want things to happen fast. So these periods of sadness are getting quite tiresome. I think my S agreement will be signed fairly quickly. I made one significant correction which is the date of separation. My H's L said May (when he sold his car and secretly rented his place) but I said October 1st (when he finally told me he wasn't coming back). It doesn't seem that significant except that you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce and I guess I just want to give both of us time to adjust to the new normal so that, at least for me, maybe D won't be as painful. That's my theory anyway. It also gives him some time to reconsider and even though I think there is less than a 1% chance of that happening, I would still like to keep it open as a possibility even though I am endeavouring to move forward and make a new life for myself.

FS - It's funny that you noticed that. I did too when I wrote it. I almost changed it to present tense but then I didn't. I'm not sure why. I think I am in a strange place. Do I have love for my H? Definitely...but it is not without reservation, the way it was before. My life for the last four years has been one giant lie made up of a thousand little lies...all of them told to me by the person I vowed to spend my life with. His betrayal has shaken me to the core. So when I say "I love him", I'm not too sure what that means anymore. I also don't really know who he is anymore. So who is it that I love? The guy I thought I was married to? The guy I am married to [technically]? I really don't know right now which is why I think it felt safer, and maybe more accurate, to write it in the past tense.

Great night. My sister and BIL came over and we invited my MIL to have dinner with us. We talked about a number of different things and shared a lot of laughs. The last time we all ate dinner together was Christmas and I was not in the best of moods...feeling the absence of my H and wishing for a time machine. I also thought of him tonight but not in the same way. I had moments of sadness that he was not there...but not because I was missing him but because he was missing out...on being part of a family.

He has, in effect, given up most of his family members. He sees his mother once in awhile but their relationship is not the same. He used her and lied to her in the same way he did with me so I think things are awkward between them. And, at the end of the day, she lives with me so it must feel very strange to him - like he is separated from her too. He has never been that close to his brother and sister and it sounds like his dad isn�t communicating with him again so he doesn�t have them either. My sister and BIL were sort of like pseudo family but he couldn�t get close to them because he was lying to me for so long. And I was the best and most supportive friend he has had for years and he threw that relationship away like it meant nothing. The only family he has left is our kids and he gets love from them but it�s not like he can confide in them.

I have been trying to imagine what it must be like to be him. If it were me, I would feel so alone and lonely but I have to remind myself that he�s not me and I clearly place way more value on family and relationships than he does. Still...how can he feel good right now given everything that has happened? I am sitting here feeling like crying - not out of sadness for me but out of sadness for him. Sad that he is missing out and even sadder that he may not even realize it. Is that crazy? I feel like I must be just the biggest idiot to be feeling this way but I�ve just had this urge numerous times tonight to text him to see if he is okay. I�m not going to because I cannot allow myself to go there. I have to move forward and work on detaching and saving myself. I do not want to be feeling this way in a year.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

FS - It's funny that you noticed that. I did too when I wrote it. I almost changed it to present tense but then I didn't. I'm not sure why. I think I am in a strange place.

Perhaps it is better that once you noticed it (the unconcscious feeling) you chose not to change it (the active action). For me, love is both a feeling and an action. You cannot choose to love someone you do not but you can love someone and choose not to act on it. Having said that, what does the �slip� mean for you ... I think your heart is starting to move on but your brain is keeping you firmly in place because it wants to understand, it wants to rationalise and it is scared. My advice, shut your brain off and trust that the universe, god or the �force� (whichever one resonates with you) will give you what you need - which may not be what your head wants.

Quote

I have love for my H? Definitely...but it is not without reservation, the way it was before.

Of course you love him. It is just buried under pain, confusion, fear, resentment and (this is lessening with each post) desperation. Once those pass, and this will happen with time because time is a great healer, you will see again the man you once loved and also the man he has become ... and you WILL wish him well. I have faith in that because you are inherently a good person.

Quote

for the last four years has been one giant lie made up of a thousand little lies...all of them told to me by the person I vowed to spend my life with. His betrayal has shaken me to the core.

look at it at this way. Four years you were in the dark. It could have gone on for another four years. Finding out has been a gift because you are now in a position to make informed decisions which are in the best interest of yourself and your two beautiful children.

Whilst it may have felt safer being in the dark, DV, the truth really has set you free.

Thank you FS. I actually think it is my heart that is hanging on but, as you noted, starting to loosen its grip a little bit. My head told me to walk away ages ago but it has been a battle. I guess I am "set free" as it is always better to know the truth, even when it hurts. I know I will be better off in the long run and that I cannot "fix" my H. This is a path he feels he must take and in his estimation, the benefits outweigh the costs. He and I will forever disagree about that but such is life.

I hope he becomes a better man. I hope he finds inner happiness and doesn't continue to search for it outside of himself and in other people. I hope he eventually comes to understand that he wasn't unhappy because our marriage was bad but that our marriage was bad because he was unhappy. That really is the gist of it. His mom commented to me the other night that she doesn't think he has ever been really happy in his own skin. She says he was reasonably happy when he and his first wife got together but that didn't last long (his happiness). She said he was even happier when he met me and that lasted awhile too but eventually he was back to being unhappy again. She is sad for him too.

So...today was going fine until my D11 called me to find out who was picking them up from school. Oops. Forgot about that. So I told her they should walk home and call or text me when they got there. Five minutes later, I get a text from her saying �home�. Huh? It would take at least 10 minutes to walk. So I ask her if she ran home. Nope, dad�s friend picked us up. Which friend? The one he lives with. WTF?!? So I text him, �you got J to pick up the kids from school?� He texts back that he has no idea what I am talking about. He then texts me a few minutes later to say that she apologized and had been driving by, saw them and offered to drive them home and it was �an act of kindness�. Great. Now she knows where I live. Why was she driving by? She lives on the other side of town! So...I probably shouldn�t have, but I texted him that I didn�t like it and it makes me uncomfortable and that I don�t want her driving our kids anywhere. No response, of course. I then texted him later that I had told them not to accept rides home from anyone unless it was prearranged or they call me or their dad to ask permission first. I don�t know. Maybe I watch too many true crime shows? Did I overreact?

I am just really mad right now. I am mad that relationship with my H has been reduced to the occasional text message. I am mad that he is a stranger to me. I am mad that I am going to have to deal with random strangers having access to my kids. I am mad that he checked out of being a husband and a father for the better part of four years, then broke up our family and now feels entitled to the same access to our kids as the person who has been there for them the entire time. I am mad that I married him and that I was stupid enough to trust him when all the signs were there that he was the kind of guy who cheats on his partners and abandons them without warning. I am mad that I have to deal with him in some way almost every day and it makes it very, very hard to not be mad!!!!! I AM MAD I AM MAD!!!! Maybe I am going mad???

I'm sorry today was so hard.

Your feelings about not wanting any stranger - anyone that is not you, their father, MIL, or another trusted and approved adult should not be doing so. But I think in this instance, there is a chance it was an innocent act with the intent of just being nice. You and the kids' father should definitely be on the same page around this going forward. That dialogue has been started.

Your kids are safe, and they've learned a lesson. I'm glad they had the chance to review this lesson with you now when there was not a threat.

Hello DV

Just reading along and thought I�d pop in.

I found that I lead with my head and the heart has to catch up. Detachment, indifference. Love is indeed a feeling, as well as an action, a thought, and most important a belief.

As to the past tense - �loved him�. That is indicative of ruminating of the past, of better times, of different times. Speaking in a certain tense doesn�t mean you feel a certain way. That being said, speaking in the past tense can show the depression and sadness. Speaking future tense highlights the anxiety and fear. The present is peace and contentment.

The ride from school was an odd happenstance. I do agree with Yail it does seem like an innocent act. It is good you discussed it and your expectations with the twins regarding accepting rides.

I see you are mad, and you feel mad, but I do not believe you are mad.

DnJ

Thank you Yail and DnJ. My madness is fading...lol. I do think it was an innocent act but it still disturbed me. I think it just felt like �his life� was encroaching a little bit too much on mine. I still do not know for sure if there is something going on with my H and this woman or if it really is just a roommate situation. My MIL is convinced it is the latter. I tend to think that as well except that my H has lied about almost everything to me so why would this be any different? I told my MIL that I almost hope she is his �girlfriend� cause I feel like I could handle that for some reason. I�m not sure why... maybe because I have seen her and she is nothing like me? Or because she has been in the picture this whole time and I am just used to her even though I don�t know her.

So tonight I went on my email to see if my lawyer has sent me anything yet and I saw an email that I had sent myself earlier in the week. I had been cleaning up my storage at work and ran across a recording of a song my H had written about me early on in our relationship so I sent it to my home email. I wasn�t sure it would play on my IPhone but it did so I listened to it. Man was that guy ever head over heels for me then. At first it made me sad, that his feelings for me could have been so strong and now they are basically just gone. But when I listened to it a second time, it made me kinda happy. I think because it validated my experience with him... that my memories of him and I are real...that we were crazy about each other and that no matter what he says now or how he chooses to remember things, he cannot take that away from me. It was real. We were real. So this fantasy love that he is looking for... the one that just maintains itself with no effort from him... listening to that and hearing how hopeful and happy he was...not sure he could feel any more strongly for anyone than he did for me. And there is no way to mistake who he wrote it for since the chorous was basically my name and there were a number of references in it to things like where we went on our first date and a park right next to my house at the time. It was quite clever actually. Reminded me of some of the qualities that made me love him in the first place. Bittersweet...to say the least.

This most recent post has a lot in it. If I could, I'd like to point out what I took from it.

The first paragraph I'm hearing someone who is frustrated by the lack of control. New things are popping up, and you didn't see them coming. You want to get your feet under you and know what to expect for a while. Whether it is a real lack of control or perceived I don't know, but your frustration seems to be that you just cant control or predict the future. This seems to jive with your anger with your H that he lied to you for so long.

The second paragraph made me happy to read. I'm glad you found that song. Remembering that you did have love that was real is so important to letting them go, IMO. As you heal and move forward I hope this fact that you loved each other brings you strength and an occasional fond memory - not bitterness or anger. Cycle through those feelings now, but I hope your final healing phase is one of appreciation.

Good Morning DV

I loved hearing about the song!

Once we get through some bad stuff, process it a bit, we start realizing the good stuff. Continue to be patient, and get the whole picture. You know what you lived, you know what was real. I am glad you found it again. As Yail said it is important to know that when letting go.

Keep your headings. Compassion and understanding. It does take work, but things will fall into place.

DnJ

Just keep the good memories DjV. And keep moving forward. Shining bright as usual!

Thanks everyone for your encouragement.

Friday was a good day. Work went reasonably well. Saw my kids towards the end of the day as my H brought them by my office so I could say goodbye before they went to his place for the weekend. Got lots of hugs and told them to have fun with their dad.

After work, my sister and I took my dog for a walk and then shortly after we went to an Epicure cooking class being put on by someone from her women�s business network. There were about ten women there, all new people that I have never met before. Really liked them. Most of the women there were married but two of them are separated from their husbands. One of them moved to town in March and it sounded like she is the one who left her H but that it quickly became a mutual decision. We seemed to be about ten years older than me. The other woman was the one who actually taught the cooking class. She has been separated for two years from her H who sounds a bit similar to mine. Both are musicians and both were highly dependent on the women in their lives to manage finances, etc.. Her H went without heat for a short time when he moved into his new apartment because he didn�t know you had to contact hydro to open an account. She also said that for most of their separation, he has had a lot of anger towards her but recently has done a 180 and now has nothing but good things to say to and about her. She has no idea what happened and that it was a sudden shift.

All in all, I really enjoyed myself and the food was yummy. I ordered a few things and signed up to host a cooking class of my own in early February. Looking forward to it.

Noticed last night that I was in a good mood. On my drive home, I listened to my latest favourite song that relates to my sitch (Babe by Sugarland...check it out!!!) and I thought about everything as I usually do when I am on my own with time to think. I am grateful that it�s not as painful as it used to be. I still have pangs of loss but I don�t have the fear that I used to have and my thoughts don�t go into a negative tailspin. The fog is lifting.

My H brought the kids home an hour or so ago and we spent some time talking about the coming week and who is doing what, etc... It was fine on the surface but it was one of those conversations where you know there is more NOT being said than there is being said... if that makes any sense. And it feels so awkward to try to have this pleasant conversation with someone who has treated me so terribly and who once felt so strongly about me that he wrote a love song about it. How could those feelings just disappear?

I also realized tonight that while I am doing much, much better than I was a couple of months ago, I am still really, really sad that things have come to this and that my H never made any attempts to try to save our marriage and everything we had worked for.... that after 13 years,it meant so little to him. It still boggles my mind that he can just throw it all away with such certainty. Not sure I will ever understand it...

Had a text exchange with my H�s favourite cousin�s wife who visited us this past summer. She was checking on me to make sure I am okay. She told me that they are both there for me if I need them and that even though they aren�t taking sides, they are really sad for what I have been through. I don�t know how much they know but I am grateful for their support. I just told her thanks and that I would never want them to take sides anyway. I told her that my H loves both of them a lot and that he needs good people in his life.

So like Maika said in his post... I got hit by a wave tonight. Still looking for my surf board.

I was just rummaging through my jewelry box and came across some money that I had forgotten about. Yay me!! But then I turned around an looked into the box again and right on top was a recipe card with my H�s wedding vows written on them in his handwriting. I didn�t even know I had it. Don�t know how it got on top of everything... Anyway... talk about a dagger to the heart...

�We have both traveled such different roads only to be lucky enough to have found each other at the end of the journey and to begin a new one together. You have proved to me that both fate and true love are real. You have made me feel complete and given me the love I have dreamed of. This is a valuable gift. And like your heart, I will protect, cherish and honour it for the rest of my life. I love you madly!�

That was really, really tough to read.

Hey DV!!!!

That is rough. I have a bunch of cards and stuff my XW gave me over the years, and I sat and read them one day during our D and got SOOOOO mad! Were they all lies? Was it just a bunch of meaningless words?

You know what? I don't think they were lies. I think that at the time, they were genuine and written with positive intent. Things change. People change. But in the moment it was written, it was real.

I'm really happy to hear that you went out and connected with people! My IC made it a point one session for me to go out and connect with at least two new people, and that mission turned out to be one of my most interesting stories lol. Eventually, I started being way more social, and being way more outgoing. It can help tremendously. Keep it up!

It is going to be ok!

Hi DV

The sadness is to be expected and understandable. What I wonder though is perhaps they did make effort in their own way. We don't know the internal struggles that they went through to try to stay in the marriage. You are comparing what he did and didn't do with what you would and wouldn't have done. That's comparing apples and oranges because you are obviously very different people.

It winds my kids up that their Dad goes about as if nothing is wrong. That is his belief because in his head he thinks he tried but it's not my version of trying.

Every body needs a go to song. Mine is a cliche. "First I was afraid, I was petrified/ thinking I would never live without you by my side / but I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong / that I grew strong" ......Gloria Gaynor; I will survive.

Hey DV!

It's tough to have those conversations, I know. And it's normal to be upset by them. But you don't need a surfboard to ride those waves. Everything you need is inside you. You are strong enough to outlast those fleeting emotions and come out the other side stronger. Just keep focused on what is important to you -- your kids, your GAL, your plans for the future. You are body-surfing now.

big hugs!

Good Morning DV

Wow, finding his wedding vows. Yes, that is going to hurt, and feel good too. Your life together was real. Your feelings are real.

His feelings were real, and probably still are, just buried under untold layers of justifications containing lies, semitruths, fantasies, and even a few real concerns. Just imagine how much it would take to change him, to cause him to choose this path, to be driven, forced to take this path.

My W during her exodus told me she had gone through the entire house looking through everything. She would cry all day until me or the kids came home and then would act like herself showing no signs of the dualistic life she was living. She said for two months she looked through everything - all 46 photo albums, school work, gifts, decorations, dishes, etc..., the entire house, and in the end left everything behind.

Weeks after BD and her leaving I discovered, stumbled upon, our wedding stuff. It was out of storage. Our vows, blue flowers wreathing the double hearts with �Just Married� written within them, the blue quill pen, napkins, invitations, our speeches, and so on. She had dug it all out at some point.

Your H knows his vows, knows what he promised, knows what he is giving up. He most likely read his vows and put the card back on top where you found it. And yet he continues down this path, unable to stop himself, unable to see any other choices. Imagine what it would take to change someone that much.

In time he might start to see a better path. For now he really cannot figure a way out. Anything you would say - he knows, he is aware, within his head and heart, and he keeps pushing them down. He puts on his mask, smiles, tells himself and anyone that will listen that everything is good, and tries to believe his justifications.

The most compassionate and best thing you can do for him, and coincidentally the best for yourself as well, is to give him lots of space and time. Finding a compassionate way through all this mess is not just for him, not at all - it is truly for you, first and foremost!

The pain and suffering that the LBS goes through, was horrible. I wouldn�t wish that on anyone.

Our spouses are living something much worse. A hellish existence, devoid of true hope, joy, happiness, or love.

Imagine what it would take to change them.

Realize who they were, the real love they had, and might still possess. Find compassion and understanding. With this, do the best for each of you - let go.

DV, you are detached, with love. Finding and reading the vow, not spinning out of control and becoming a heap on the floor, demonstrates it.

It is time to look towards the next steps. They are coming - realization of fears, letting go, indifference - and like detachment seeing them through a lens that matches your core beliefs is better. Compassion and love.

I won�t lie the road ahead is bumpy and difficult. Keep being patient it does smooth out. Lovingly letting go and compassionate indifference.

I realize your path is unfolding and is unknown to you; I found it helpful to atleast know where I was heading even though the route was a mystery.

DnJ

Thank you all. Feeling a bit more grounded this morning. Last night was an unexpected journey into the past and it was good, on one hand, to remember how strongly my H once felt about me but also not so good as it brought up feelings of regret and thoughts about what I could have done differently to help him keep his promises. I know, I know... those were his promises and he made the choice to go against them, not me. But I didn�t help things. I became hyper-focused on my kids and doing all of the things I thought I was supposed to do as a mom. I forgot how important it was to also be a wife. I made the mistake of thinking that our love would just sustain itself. I didn�t epically break my vows the way he did but I did become somewhat complacent. I felt him slowly slipping away from me. Reminds me of the frog in boiling water analogy. I just got used to it over time.

Not sure why I keep finding this stuff. First the song and now the vows... Maybe it is part of letting go? I don�t know. I�m not a fan though. Trips down memory lane don�t feel overly helpful to my healing. Compassionate indifference. That definitely fits with my value system as I have always been a compassionate person. I think it does make the path towards indifference that much longer. I guess nothing worth having comes easy though so it makes sense that I would still be going on this roller coaster ride.

DnJ - I don�t think my H was reading those vows. He doesn�t go into my jewelry box and the card only showed up because I was rummaging through it. I�m also skeptical that the love he had for me is still inside him somewhere. If it is, he has buried it so deeply that I don�t think it is likely to resurface. He is so committed to this new reality and he seems very, very calm and detached. I wish that I had his resolve. This would be so much easier. I�m working on it...but I am a few years behind him.

Not working today but I have a dentist appointment to look forward to. I really have to stop scheduling these appointments in the middle of my day off.

I know I shouldn�t have but I took a picture of the wedding vows I found and sent them to my H. Told him that I wanted him to see them in case he was thinking about rewriting history and claiming that he never really loved me in the first place. That was his story about his first W... that he shouldn�t have married her and that he didn�t really love her in the way that he should. I didn�t want him to be able to do that with me. So...not the best move but honestly, I don�t really care at this point. He�s not coming back. He�s moving full speed ahead and our S agreement should be signed and over with in a couple weeks or so.

After the dentist, I spent the rest of the afternoon switching the house bills over from our joint credit card to my new one. A couple accounts are in my H�s name so he has to deal with those. I texted him and he replied that he would take care of it with a smiley face. ARGHHH... stop it with the smiley faces. I am NOT smiling!!!! This s#cks!!! He is breaking up our family. There is NOTHING to smile about... NOTHING!!! Can you hear me yelling???

I know... detach, detach, detach. Despite what seems like a bit of a setback, I am still moving forward. I have too much self respect not to. And I am getting there. I no longer disolve into a puddle on the floor after talking to or seeing him. I have some sadness, yes, but i get on with my day.

Went to Costco this morning. The guy at the front door is a guy that I went out on one date with just prior to meeting my H. I recall that he and I got along pretty well and he texted me as soon as I got home but then disappeared. I have a feeling he may not have been as single as I thought. I do remember he had a daughter. Anyway...that was almost 14 years ago so who knows what his status is. He doesn�t wear a ring but then a lot of men don�t so that doesn�t mean anything. He gave me a big smile and said �hello� and I did the same. He is tall and nice looking...aged well... Hmmm... Who am I kidding? I am nowhere near ready to date anyone even though it would be nice to feel like I was attractive to someone instead of just feeling rejected by my H. He�s been such an a$$ the last five or six years, I should have been the one to reject him. But I meant my wedding vows so it would have taken some REALLY bad behaviour for me to do that. I mean, the man went to fake medical treatments for four YEARS and that�s not bad enough??? WTF is wrong with me??? Sorry for swearing... situation seems to call for it.

Anyway... tonight is pool league so I�m going to go socialize and forget about my H and his broken promises. He is taking the kids overnight so I will be returning to an empty house. But... it means I don�t have to get up quite so early so that is a bonus. (((HUGS))) to all of you in DB land!! Hope you all have a good night.

So...was having a decent day at work when I decided to look at my personal email to see if there is anything from my lawyer. Nope...but there is an email from my H. He says good morning, thanks for the chat on Sunday and btw... there is a property coming on the market soon that ticks most of my boxes. I've been watching all of the homes in my price range be bought within days so really want to buy something before the spring mark up. Don't want to annoy you or anything but if you could do anything to expedite the process, I would greatly appreciate it. Hope you have a great day!!

WTF?!?! Are you freaking kidding me? This guy lies to my face for years, leaves me to take care of everything, including our kids, while he is off enjoying a carefree single life doing gawd knows what, he then secretly rents a place and continues to lie to me [while still telling me he loves me and pretending to plan a future with me] as he goes off for his fake overnight medical treatmentd EVERY NIGHT until he is caught and then proceeds to drop a bomb on me, serves me with a separation agreement [accusing me of not trying to work things out] with a January 31st deadline and then on the 15th asks me to hurry it along so he can buy a property he wants. Seriously?!? How self-centred can one person be? Clearly he has done NO work on himself whatsoever.

Anyway... I thought about just not replying but he would see that as being passive aggressive. I then thought about telling him to "go f himself" but that would just be inviting a conflict. So, I settled on what my first reaction was and sent the following... "Your lack of empathy is stunning. There are no words." Not exactly DB material but everyone has their limits. "Um... I know that I have completely turned your life upside down and am now forcing you to go into debt and become a 50% parent but could you hurry it up please. I have things I want to do. Oh yeah... and have a great day! " Like I said...there are no words.

I'd feel exactly the same way. Perhaps the old phrase, "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency for me" could be re-written. Not that I'm suggesting you say this.

"A lack of empathy on your part does not correlate to an increase of empathy within me"

or

"A situation with urgency in your life does not constitute an emergency for me"

Although in this case I suppose a simple, "I'll continue to work in a timeline that works best for me" would suffice.

I know he is being ridiculous. I'm sorry to hear it hasn't ended yet - but it will. Stay strong. You do such an amazing job every day.

DV - I can think of a few words but would definitely be censored. Anyway, I said them on your behalf here in my kitchen across the ocean. I promise you'll look back at the bare - ar**d cheek of the man and smile a wry smile - in time. It's to be expected isn't it - the lack of empathy - he appears to have been devoid for a while.

I'm sure I don't need to say this - do things to your timescale and what suits you and the kids.

Yep. Part and parcel of the wayward mindset. Everything is about them. At least he was polite. It's twice as ridiculous when they are mad and angry. Just stay factual.

Seriously. You are working with a BUSINESS TRANSACTION now. You shouldn't get emotional with business partners, suppliers, or customers. I would only approach it from that perspective.

I agree....strictly a business transaction operate from the mentality of to do what is in your best interests and the kids.

Thanks all. Joe x 2 .... I get the whole business transaction thing... I really do. But we are talking about the dissolution of a 13 year partnership and the dismantling of a family unit. It is not business to me. It will never be business to me and he will never be my business partner. And I know I shouldn�t get emotional but this situation is less than four months old for me and has turned my life completely upside down so it IS emotional. I think I was very reserved in my response and not emotional at all...and factual. The fact is... his lack of empathy IS stunning.

I'm certainly not going to argue that it was in good DB form, but it's a response you meant and one he deserved. I would have said (and absolutely did say) far, far worse than that. Today my H still says he knows he deserved all of it. Just sayin. Like I said before, I think you letting in your anger is a very, very important part of your process and will help lead you to detachment. IMO you have been far too understanding and forgiving of him. He has been dishonest, neglectful and seemingly adulterous. Even if she is dying or has cancer, that does not mean it can't be an affair. Some here say it doesn't matter, I personally think it does.

So you are allowng more anger in. Good! It's okay to be angry. You don't necessarily need to share your emotions with him, but if you slip up, oh well. You can shake that off and move right along, sister! I care far more about you healing and finding your strength again than what that jackhole thinks!

Blu

Thank you Blu. I really appreciate your input. I definitely let some anger in today but, as per usual, what follows is a good dose of sadness. I made the mistake of going back and looking at all my old text messages from the end of September when he told me it was over but then backtracked five hours later to tell me how ashamed he was and how he was going to come home and work to regain my trust. And that he loved me. And then continued to let me believe this was his plan for a whole week before backing out a second time. That was three and a half months ago. And now he is pressuring me to hurry up and get this agreement done so he can get his money, buy his crappy house and start his new life. Never mind the wreckage he has left behind in his old life. He hardly gives that a thought anymore.

I think the last few days have just been really hard. My kids were with him for the weekend and my new credit card arrived so I spent yesterday transferring all of my bills. Just more steps towards having completely separate lives. So I�m pretty sad tonight and have been hiding out in my room a bit so my kids don�t notice. Luckily they have homework that has kept them busy and pretty much oblivious to what I�m doing. I am just so tired of feeling this way. I feel like I am always keeping a lid on my emotions... that if I really let myself go, I would just scream and cry for days. But I don�t and I won�t. I keep it together like I have for the past four years. But man... does my H ever deserve to get hit by the karma bus. I hate that I am hoping for that but I really think he needs it...to grow. Otherwise, why would he even bother? Things have always gone, and continue to go, his way. I know, I know... DnJ�s mantra is ringing in my head... Choose better, not bitter. I have always, always found a way to do that but gosh it is so d@mn hard to do with someone who has treated me so terribly and continues to do so with his smiley face texts and his �have a great day� messages. It is infuriating. And his �I like you as a friend� proclamation with this weird smug-looking smile on his face. I am not your friend, I am your wife, you jerk!!! Plus...you treat your friends way better than you have ever treated me so STFU. When he said that, it took everything I had not to punch him in the face... and I�ve never punched anyone in my life.

Sigh...moving forward...hopefully a good night�s sleep will help. Not that I�ve had one of those in months. Maybe tonight... Love to you all. (((HUGS)))

DV,

What have you been doing to GAL? Whatever it is you need to up it by 10 fold. Anger was my most difficult emotion to control. My WW destroyed a 21 year relationship and the security of our kids. I am trying very hard not to hate her.

That being said, once I kicked GAL into overdrive, I stepped off of the rollercoaster of emotions. I no longer allow my WWs actions to affect me. Its pointless. Get yourself out there into the world. Force yourself to drop that rope. Once you do, you will feel nothing but indifference towards your H. That and you will find true joy focusing on yourself.

It�s ok to be angry, we all have slipped at one time or another and truthfully it won�t make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. My Xw moved out 3 weeks after bd, I have two young daughters, and our 14 yr marriage was dissolved in 8 months so I get it. The point is that even though you still very much love your husband and have feelings for him you can�t let those feelings get in the way of what is in your best interests. I guarantee you he is not looking out for yours.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

DV, I understand the desire to lash out at him, I mean he is King Douche of Douchebag World. But try to stick to business. A good response would have been "you gave me a deadline of the 31st which I am endeavoring to meet, but I will not be able to expedite it any faster than that." Then come here and tell us what an ass he is, because he certainly is, almost to comical proportions. I mean reading some of this stuff you post about him, it just makes me go "WOW!"

Thanks all.

AS - King Douche of Douchebag World... that made me laugh outloud. You are right. He has done nothing to divest himself of that title, that's for sure. I hate that I still give him any space in my mind and in my heart. My biggest strength, in this situation, is also my biggest weakness. I am committed and loyal to the people I love - almost to a fault. And, unlike him, I have clear memories of when he was in love with me and good memories from recent years. I keep reminding myself how incredibly disrespectful and deceitful he has been in order to help me really drop the rope. It helps sometimes... sometimes it just makes me sad. Going through old text messages was a dumb move on my part. Not sure why I did. I think I just wanted to remind myself that, at some point, he did still have feelings for me and that a part of him did want to do the right thing and try to work on the relationship. A cheeseless tunnel, I know. Sometimes we can really be our own worst enemies.

ST - I admit that I haven't been great at GAL lately. The holidays really did set me back a bit. I did go out Friday and Saturday last week thought and met new people both nights. Friday, especially, was a good night and I felt pretty good when my head hit the pillow. I know I need to do more of that for sure.

Joe - I know for sure he is not looking out for my best interests. He hasn't done that in years so why start now? It has always been and likely always will be all about him.

Arghhh... more odds and ends financial issues emails from my H. Honestly, every time I see his name, I feel physically ill and now I am close to tears. I am so done with this feeling. What is wrong with me? I was doing pretty well but now I feel like I am falling backwards fast. I just don't understand how he can do this to me and our kids. I don't think I will ever understand it. And I know... it's like a broken record... I just keep going over it in my head. And I am feeling so lonely right now. He was my BEST friend for the longest time.. at least I thought he was. I just really, really miss the guy I used to know. Am I just going through the final feelings of grief or am I starting this process all over again? Feeling very disappointed in myself.

DV6...up front and I know this is said ALL THE TIME, but...you are in no way alone in the way you are feeling! I myself could have written word for word your last post. I don't think you should feel disappointed in yourself. You are grieving the loss of your marriage, family, all of it. Heck I feel those thoughts you just said basically every day. Thing is feeling them/grieving them is natural and ok. Wanting to try and change the reality of the life you are facing now...that would not be. Accepting them as how you feel BUT continuing to move forward/endure...that is all you must do these days. Grant yourself the grace to be patient with yourself. And for sure when needed come here and vent. I can assure you there are MANY MANY of us who can relate to what you are going through!

Also going through old texts/memories/etc...I don't think that is a cheeseless tunnel. For me knowing that my W had those feelings for me, that we DID love each other, we DID have fun...it all helps a lot when our spouses say crazy stuff, gaslight us or whatever else. As has been said in some of the MLC threads...we are the keepers of the truth of what happened in our relationships. Be proud of and draw strength from the reality that the love you shared with him was real. His actions may have caused you to feel like you have lost control of your future, but don't allow him the power to take away the cherished and real memories of love you have of your past together. One day he may come back to you a hot, remorseful mess and it may be you that has to show him that yes at one time you loved each other.

Hang in there!

-B

Truthfully you will cycle. Initially you will have more bad days than good days. I cried every morning and every night early on, didn't sleep, and couldn't eat. I would also burst out in tears randomly at work or in the car. There is no easy way but you have to walk directly through the pain.

Truthfully you will probably never know the reason why. I spent hours on this board daily and it was really the only thing that comforted me. I read through a sitch about 15 years ago and the vet posted this comment "There are many things that happen in this world that never get answers, why should you be any different". It [censored] and cuts straight to the core but it so true. Hard to accept now but in time your desire for answers will diminish. Early on there is little you can do to ease the pain. It is truly traumatic.

Walking in the complete opposite direction and going strictly NC (or as NC as you can go) is really the only way to begin to heal yourself. It took me 6 months before I felt like a relatively normal person.

Another vet told me this early on as well. Your desire to save yourself has to be greater than your desire to save your marriage.

I am really sorry you are here. I can tell you though that things do get better with time.

Hello DV

Better not bitter. I would love to take credit for that, however peacetoday started those words ringing in my head for me. I am happy to pass them forward to you.

I love reading your raw passion and emotion. It is very good to get it out, and you have much to be angry about, with that - what was he - King Douche of Douchebag World. Lol.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

You are addicted to H.

This is withdrawl.

It is strong, powerful, and painful. This addiction has been compared to herion, just has pervasive and as hard to break.

Every trip down memory lane, Facebook post, picture, snooping, text, etc... all add to the time of this withdrawl, and prolongs your suffering. It takes a concentrated effort to break this, to create new habits, to let go.

I�ve been here, and it is not fun. My mind screamed for the chemical release that my W�s love once provided. It is difficult, really difficult, to resist those urges to get a fix, another hit. It took some months of not looking at pictures, minimal contact, and so on, to get over this hurdle. There is relief, and freedom from this addiction.

This is just another part of the path. It is ok to trip and stumble, there are lots of people who will help you back up.

DnJ

Thank you Ballast, Joseph and DnJ.

Ballast - I think my H has been a hot mess for the last four years. Remorseful? I highly doubt he will ever get there but it is somehow comforting to think that there is always a chance. What that would mean for R when/if that ever happened, I don�t know. For sure I do NOT want to be feeling this way...I am hoping for indifference. Thank you for the reminder to be patient with myself. It is very hard to do sometimes. I wish I had my H�s talent for detachment sometimes but at other times I don�t because I know the pain I am going through has its purpose. I know I will be a better, stronger person at the end. My H? Likely not. His email to me is a big indicator of that.

Joseph - I hadn�t really thought of this experience as a trauma. I always think of trauma as an assault or an accident or a disaster. But I realized that the hallmark of a trauma is loss of control... being put through a situation in which you feel like your life is being threatened and you cannot do anything about it. People who suffer from PTSD struggle with that the most... their sense of safety has been destroyed and they realize that ultimately they do not have total control over what happens to them. In order to regain a reasonable level of functioning, they have to be able to talk about and think about the incident without panicking or being emotionally dysregulated which they do through retelling their story over and over again until it no longer destabilizes them. As well, they have to become comfortable with and accepting of the idea that they could do everything right (often they blame themselves for what happened) and still end up getting hurt. So, in that respect, bomb day and the events that inevitably follow really do meet the criteria of a trauma. I know that my sense of safety has been significantly altered. I continue to work on acceptance.

Walking the opposite direction and going as NC as possible. I think getting this S agreement done and my kids into a regular schedule will help with that. It is hard though. Things always seem to come up that necessitate some sort of communication. In time, I�m sure that will be okay. I just have to keep remembering that it has only been three and a half months and that is not a lot of time.

DnJ - This idea of addiction is interesting to me. Certainly, I have thought numerous times that I need to go cold turkey on this which is guess is what NC is all about. I guess you are in love when your feelings are returned but you are addicted when they are not? Definitely makes me feel weak when I think of it in that way but it makes sense. Explains my conflicted feelings when I see my H... I always want to see him but also don�t want to see him. It s#cks.

Good Morning DV

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

I guess you are in love when your feelings are returned but you are addicted when they are not?

Not quite. That is when you realize you are, and were, addicted.

Being in love is being in love. Being addicted is being addicted.

You loved H for years and in the best sense of the word, you became addicted to him, to the feelings you had when with him. That is total expected from a long term loving relationship - it�s a good thing.

The thing is, you didn�t know you were addicted during all the good times (well relative to now). The removal or loss of the stimulus from him is causing withdrawl symptoms.

The word addiction has a negative connotation about it. However, it is just a state of being, a dependence on certain feelings or chemicals within your brain. That is not a problem in a loving relationship when addicted to your partner.

Addictive behaviour is when troubles start. As your need for that feeling increases (withdrawl) things get worse. We do something to ease the pain, which resets things (sort of).

Fight you way through withdrawl. You will find addiction is addiction, and love is love.

You can love H, and not be addicted to him. Just has much as you can hate H, and be addicted to him.

The addiction is separate, deal with it separately. Love can remain, honest.

DnJ

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