Old thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2822098&page=11To everyone thank you all for your advice and support. I feel like things should be getting better, but since we have S and are the precipice of D things are getting darker and harder. I think it is a combo of the new challenges she brings and my own internal struggles as the cause this.
Again18 after your second post it appears I did misunderstand you. Thank you for being so supportive. I think you and a few others have posted that they really believe I have a good chance for R down the road. I won't give up hope, but I feel like that hope is getting smaller and the chance for R is getting bleaker every day. It is a direct contrast to my life outside of what I am going through. Beyond D and my W my life has been great and is on the upswing. The dichotomy between the two facets of my life is very confusing emotionally.
I just received a text from W this morning wanting to know if I wanted her dog. It sent me reeling. I don't want him and never did. She bought him on an impulse in Feb. and she just complicated her/our life. I have a dog and that's all I need. However, it would be sad and a shame to see her get rid of hers.
What I want to say is Sorry W, I will not be able to take your dog. Please do not give him away as it would absolutely crush D8. You know how devastated you were when your parents gave away your dogs at 2 different times in your life. Please consider our children in your decision.
I have not responded and will sit on it until I get input here.
Lastly, since my last post she has tried calling me or texting me a few times which I haven't answered the phone and have only responded to text regarding the kids, briefly and on my own time. I did send her a pic of a bill of hers that came to my house, but gave her no further communication from her response.
I'm on a similar path, this week was pretty bad for me, but hopefully this weekend will be better. Unfortunately, most of my personal life is in turmoil too. Gotta just take some time and refocus. Sad to hear about her dog, but it shouldn't fall to you to be the savior here.
TF,
I think you may have to make it clear to your W that she is not to contact you unless it is in regards to the kids.
Let her know in a clear and direct way that you need time to heal and move on with your life.
She texts and she calls because she's thinking about you TF but when you respond, then she gets a reprieve and feels better about things and you just feel more awful. the good guy in you wants her to feel better and we all get that but when she feels better then she is in a state in which she doesn't have to process what she's doing. You make her hang there and wonder, then she starts thinking more and more about what she has done. This is a tough time I think if you get a chance to spend time with her and the kids at Christmas you should do it. You can repair that damage after Christmas. If you do it be happy and respectful and give your kids lots of love and hugs. Do it for the kids and yourself. But up to that point try and detach and work on yourself. Right after Christmas really pull back for a while and make a strong effort to work on yourself and help your kids. As for the dog just say I don't know and leave it at that for a while. She may change her mind. tough times. Christmas 2003 I really did not do well. I spent the entire Christmas with my wife housesitting for another family and spent Christmas and New Years at her sister's house with her whole family. I bought her diamond earrings and a bunch of other gifts and was happy go lucky. Only to get home and she smugly said I think divorce is inevitable. She offered to give me the earrings back and I took them back and I think she expected me to just to let her keep them. I pulled back worked on myself and paid her only what I owed her and told her to do the paperwork for the divorce. Told her it wasn't what I wanted but I supported her decision. 3 months later I was moving back in and she never even started that paperwork.
Again, things will be tough. I have D8 on her bday next week. D8 birthday wish is that we go out for dinner as a family with W, inlaws and my parents. W doesn't want our parents together. Both of our parents have expressed they don't care because it's not about W it's about D8. W can stay home on D8 bday if she wants to be that way. Hopefully, she will go. We then have a party for D8 with school friends & cousins that weekend as it's a part of the child plan to share duties and expenses in the kids bday parties. Lastly, it is also a part of the childplan that the parent who doesn't have them on Christmas day that year can come over in the morning to open presents with the kids. She will be coming to my house this year, unless she changes her mind. After that we will have nothing going on together (other than taxes and some other financial pieces to wrap up which) until the next bday in the summer.
Sounds like a good plan TF. D8 knows what she wants and there is no reason that can't happen. Send out the invites to everyone D8 wants and whomever wants to come celebrate her B-day is welcome to. Those that don't can skip it, W included.
I have not responded and will sit on it until I get input here.
Good choice!
I just received a text from W this morning wanting to know if I wanted her dog. It sent me reeling. I don't want him and never did. She bought him on an impulse in Feb. and she just complicated her/our life. I have a dog and that's all I need. However, it would be sad and a shame to see her get rid of hers.
What I want to say is:
Sorry W, I will not be able to take your dog. Please do not give him away as it would absolutely crush D8. You know how devastated you were when your parents gave away your dogs at 2 different times in your life. Please consider our children's wishes in your decision.
Less is better.
Another choice:
"I will think about it. I will let you know when I decide"
"Let me think about it. I will let you know my decision next week"
Sounds like a good plan TF. D8 knows what she wants and there is no reason that can't happen. Send out the invites to everyone D8 wants and whomever wants to come celebrate her B-day is welcome to. Those that don't can skip it, W included.
I agree.
She will be coming to my house this year, unless she changes her mind.
I strongly suggest that things look "different" in the house when she arrives. You have time. It is your house now. You Make it look the way you want. Things are moved around. Missing or new items. New smells (Like fresh cinnamon rolls) . Clean. If you didn't do Xmas lights outside. Get them up this year. New wreath on the door. Xmas music going. New pajamas. Whatever you want. Show her you are taking care of yourself and everything else. Make sense?
I agree with the others sounds like you got this.
Well I was going to post how well my weekend GAL went, but that just came crashing down. D8 this evening was telling me about her house decor shopping with W yesterday. D5 & S3 were dropped off at my house by W so D8 and her could go shopping. Anyway D8 tells me about the bench in W entry way. W says she bought it off of etsy. Guess not, according to D8, mommy's friend from work and his 14 year old son built the bench and they are making mommy a bed frame. This is clearly OM. I ask D8 if he has met mommy's friend or his son or knows their names. She said no. I drop it after that, no need to pry further.
On another note W told D8 that I might take her dog, but I wasn't sure and I was thinking about it. She told D8 that if I don't take the dog she doesn't know what's going to happen to him, might have to give him away. It was a cause of concern that's why D8 told me about it. WTF.......
These two items have me so mad right now, and its frustrating because there really isn't much I can do about it. Everyone here says don't be so hard on yourself. Seriously, what did I do to deserve this, because this sure as hell feels like punishment. I or we came down with cancer of the MR and it sux big time.
Here is when you need to keep shining even brighter. You are there for your kids and they can rely on you. Step aside from your feeling of frustration and take the time to look at your sitch. Be proud of what you have achieve TF. Now detach some more, enjoy the kids and keep GAL. You need your PMA, use it.
Keep the lighthouse shining!
TF...quite frankly yep you are right, nothing you can do about it. so given that reality, do what you can to free yourself from thinking about it.
what did I do to deserve this, because this sure as hell feels like punishment.
you are definitely not at all alone in feeling that. yesterday i exchange my D back to W and every time i do i have that same exact thought. truth is you didn't do anything to deserve this. your life and your children's life are being impacted by the decisions of your W whether they are right or wrong. you must accept them and then make a new way for yourself and your kids. none of it is fair, happy or wanted, but it is and so you must keep on going. hopefully someday with the benefit and clarity of time, a reason for why this had to be will show itself to you.
praying for you buddy...head up, shake off what you can't control and keep moving forward.
-B
Anyway D8 tells me about the bench in W entry way. W says she bought it off of etsy. .
Ok TF I am going to take another angle here. Why do you know she supposedly got the bench from Betsy? How did it come up in conversation? It's not about the kids or finances.
These two items have me so mad right now, and its frustrating because there really isn't much I can do about it.
Why are you mad about the bench? Because she lied? Because OM made it? Because your'e losing control?
LH19,
The day I went to W house for the first time and got the tour from D8 it was sitting in the entry. I said that's a nice bench and W said she had just bought it off of the Etsy website. She has been lying through her teeth since BD so I really shouldn't be surprised. The dog thing makes me mad because it seems like she is trying to manipulate D8 into making me a bad guy for not taking her dog. The OM thing makes me mad because I still foolishly held out hope that OM wasn't OM. W also said OP shouldn't be introduced to the children for min of six months, and before that we should meet them first. Well W is talking to the kids about OM as her friend so it looks like this is garbage starting. If it ever gets to that point I can tell you right now I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea to meet OM.
W is leaving a 20 yr R, 13 year MR, a whole family of 3 young children for what? W left me for OM and the perceived single and free of responsibility fancy free lifestyle. There isn't a d@mn thing I can do about it other than let it happen and it makes me mad.
TF, detach. Your reaction to this bench and bed frame show you have much work to do on yourself. This is no longer about your WAW. Or OM. Or even the MR. It is about you.
How are your 180s coming? GAL? We know detachment needs work. Are you in IC?
TF,
I have been on the site for 4 years and I think I can remember 1 story (JRUSS) where there was zero hint of OM. My ex coincidentally dated a guy she use to work with after our D. Shocker huh? Quite frankly since you are so determined on recon I think you are better off there is an OM. If not, that would have meant she gave up everything because she didn't like you very much.
Of course she is going to lie and not tell you that OM made it for her. That's another reason for no small talk, stay out of the house when possible and stick to strictly business.
Look, I never had pets so I am not sure I should comment but if you don't want the dog don't keep it. It will be tough to tell, your kids but they will get over it. I would definitely let your W know to not ever put you on the spot like that again.
Well I was going to post how well my weekend GAL went, but that just came crashing down.
Detached- stuff W does has no impact on my PMA and enjoyment of life.
Attached- stuff W does no matter how minor tends to send me spinning into the darkness.
Twofeet-
GOAL = DETACHEDWhy in the world do you care where the bench came from? If OM made it she probably told you it came from Etsy to save you from being upset about it. She was lying to spare your feelings.
I ask D8 if he has met mommy's friend or his son or knows their names. She said no. I drop it after that, no need to pry further.
No need to pry AT ALL.
On another note W told D8 that I might take her dog, but I wasn't sure and I was thinking about it. She told D8 that if I don't take the dog she doesn't know what's going to happen to him, might have to give him away. It was a cause of concern that's why D8 told me about it. WTF.......
If you don't want the dog then tell W you don't want it. That's W's issue to deal with, not yours. See above. DETACH.
Seriously, what did I do to deserve this, because this sure as hell feels like punishment.
You didn't do anything. This stuff just happens. People contract cancer, they die in accidents, they get BD'd, terrible things happen to nice people every day. If it doesn't happen to you it happens to friends or loved ones. Life is not a trip down easy street in a chauffeured limousine. It's a gritty, grimy slog through mud and broken glass. You let it defeat you or you make it your b****.
LH19,
The day I went to W house for the first time and got the tour from D8 it was sitting in the entry. I said that's a nice bench and W said she had just bought it off of the Etsy website. She has been lying through her teeth since BD so I really shouldn't be surprised. The dog thing makes me mad because it seems like she is trying to manipulate D8 into making me a bad guy for not taking her dog. The OM thing makes me mad because I still foolishly held out hope that OM wasn't OM. W also said OP shouldn't be introduced to the children for min of six months, and before that we should meet them first. Well W is talking to the kids about OM as her friend so it looks like this is garbage starting. If it ever gets to that point I can tell you right now I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea to meet OM.
W is leaving a 20 yr R, 13 year MR, a whole family of 3 young children for what? W left me for OM and the perceived single and free of responsibility fancy free lifestyle. There isn't a d@mn thing I can do about it other than let it happen and it makes me mad.
There you go believing the words of a WAS.
"Believe nothing they say and only half of what you see". I remember hearing Floyd Mayweather saying that years ago, that's just how he lives his life.
Her words should be water off the ducks back. The OM should help you detach. Your kids don't understand everything yet, but they will. So be strong for them.
I am so worked up over this I had to take a break from work and go sit in my vehicle and meditate. There is some residual anger, but I feel more centered now. I don't care about the bench OM made or the bed frame he is going to make. What upsets me is that this whole time, even when posting on here otherwise, I had deep down fooled myself into believing there wasn't an OM. I fooled myself that what ever was going on in the beginning when I discovered the EA had likely ended. I feel like he is such a step below me that it couldn't be real. So I am mad that she could be so weak and pathetic, especially since she used to have such moral high ground. I am mad at myself for being a foolish idiot and basically lying to myself. I am mad because despite my efforts I am struggling with detachment and lying to myself otherwise. Lastly, I am mad that she is talking to D8 about OM, this is just the start. She is manipulating D8 about the dog, and she does it with other things with the kids. Now I have to contend with this mess. She puts up obstacles whether intentional or not and I have to figure out how to navigate them for myself and the children.
Yes I still hope for recon, but not with this person. I don't know this WW, and I don't like her. Hence, the lighthouse. Maybe she will come back, but maybe she will not.
TF,
You are being way to hard on yourself. It is hard to see things when you are so close and you think the woman you have known for 18 years is not capable of this behavior. If you are looking towards recon you are going to need infinite patience.
Detaching takes a really long time. It took me about a year and a half to detach but I was living with my ex. Since you separated quickly it may happen to you sooner.
I promise you this gets easier down the road. Unfortunately though I think it will get worse before it gets better for you.
TF,
I had a choice of just assuming OM or finding proof. Either way, my response was the same. One way protected me emotionally. Would you want me to spy on your W and OM and send you videos you do not want to see and that you can't get out of your head?
You will continually get more confirmation as time goes on. I believe you are past the point where exposing the affair may have helped. During this time, detaching is key. Put your DBing skills on overdrive.
On another note W told D8 that I might take her dog, but I wasn't sure and I was thinking about it. She told D8 that if I don't take the dog she doesn't know what's going to happen to him, might have to give him away. It was a cause of concern that's why D8 told me about it.
I am not sure what you actually told your W, but you told us that you did not want the dog. This is where everything should line up. That is why I recommend the words I did. Your response with daughter could have been:
Dad:"Daughter, I told mommy to consider your wishes before deciding what to do with the dog. Dogs are a big responsibility. I believe they are a life long decision.... "
R2C,
I sent W a text Friday that said verbatim I will think about it and let you know when I decide. When she dropped the kids off this weekend she asked me again this time face to face. I responded that I was still thinking about it and will let her know when I decide. She tried to pressure me and said she doesn't want the responsibility and wants to do something about her dog soon. I just said I will let you know.
When D8 talked about it last night I told her that yes its true that I told Mommy I would think about it and let her know. I asked D8 what she wants and she said she doesn't want to lose her dog and wants it to stay with Mommy. D8 said she wants Mommy to send it to obedience school (dog is barely 1 year old), but W told D8 she doesn't have time for the dog anymore. I validated D8 feelings about it, but left it at that. I will wait till after D8 bday before I give an answer to anyone.
I promise you this gets easier down the road. Unfortunately though I think it will get worse before it gets better for you.
LH19,
Should be getting easier, but it sure seems like its getting worse or there are worse things just on the horizon.
D8 said she wants Mommy to send it to obedience school (dog is barely 1 year old), but W told D8 she doesn't have time for the dog anymore.
I believe dogs are part of the family for life, but I understand others don't.
So if you do take the Dog it would be for D8 desires more than your own. Maybe D8 does the obedience school with Dog. Does all the dog chores during her time with you etc...
I have two dogs. Yes I wanted the first and everybody "Daddy please" the second dog. I negotiated more work from the children with both dogs. The kids feed the dogs, pick up the "presents" left in the yard. Give them baths.
Should be getting easier, but it sure seems like its getting worse or there are worse things just on the horizon.
You have the actual D proceeding and then when your W goes public about dating the OM and of course it wasn't until you were actually divorced. Once that sets in then detachment should come a lot easier.
R2C,
I sent W a text Friday that said verbatim I will think about it and let you know when I decide. When she dropped the kids off this weekend she asked me again this time face to face. I responded that I was still thinking about it and will let her know when I decide. She tried to pressure me and said she doesn't want the responsibility and wants to do something about her dog soon. I just said I will let you know.
When D8 talked about it last night I told her that yes its true that I told Mommy I would think about it and let her know. I asked D8 what she wants and she said she doesn't want to lose her dog and wants it to stay with Mommy. D8 said she wants Mommy to send it to obedience school (dog is barely 1 year old), but W told D8 she doesn't have time for the dog anymore. I validated D8 feelings about it, but left it at that. I will wait till after D8 bday before I give an answer to anyone.
TF, you don't want the dog, right? Why did you tell W you'd think about it? Why is this your problem just because she "doesn't want the responsibility?" Sounds like HER problem to me. Put it back on her, tell her "no" and leave it at that (don't offer lengthy NGS explanations). You'll have to deal with some fallout from D8 since you told her you were thinking about it, but better that then 15+ years of living with a dog you don't want and probably won't love (and may resent since it's your W's).
Put it back on her, tell her "no" and leave it at that
If you decide you do not want the dog, tell her:
"W, I do not want the dog. Please consider the kids wishes before you make a decision."
W will still be selfish, but you can still be a parent and advocate for what your children want. She how I carefully worded the statement above. It is not controlling. It is not trying to guilt her. Indirectly stating that you will be hurting our children buy getting rid of the dog.
AS & R2C,
I never wanted the dog. I merely told her I would think about it to buy some time to maybe slow her down, and think about it since she is prone to leap before looking. I had planned on using R2C prompt "W, I do not want the dog. Please consider the kids wishes before you make a decision." I just want to wait until after D8 bday. I don't want to deal with the blow back and damage control for D8 if W goes all WW on the dog sitch.
So in my own LBS fog and paranoia I stated D8 was 8 and some how that would hide my identify. Anyway D8 had her bday and now she is D8. So I got the kids dressed up really nice, and I myself got dressed up. I got a fresh haircut that morning, bought some new jeans, and wore a nice chambray button down with my wool jacket. I looked like your classic rugged American man. I figure apart of my self improvement and self care should entitle me to make more of an effort. Look great to go with feeling great. Anyway my folks and sis and W folks know each are going to be attending dinner at the restaurant. Everyone knows they are all going to be in attendance, and they all know W doesn't know. Reason being D8 has asked for all the family (except W sis and cousins who will be attending the kid party this weekend) and W doesn't want the grandparents to get together. They dont know that W feels like they scheme against her and this feeling occurred during the MR and has gotten worse since BD (bit of a red flag). So W shows up in yoga pants and a zip up hoody and looks tired and worn out. She is little underdressed for such a nice restuarant, and I feel bad for her. She is sitting next to me with D8 between us and she looks VERY unhappy. W has a convo with her parents about getting rid of her dog and they tell her it's not just her dog its D8 dog and it should be up to D8 what W does. This clearly pisses off W. My mom and MIL sit next to each other and have such a good time chatting it up. MIL, FIL, and my mom pass around there phones showing pics of D8 as a baby and sharing memories. My Dad tells a few stories, but doesn't have any pics. Wife gets up and says she has to use the restroom and pulls her phone out of her purse and disappears for 15 min. W hates using public restrooms so if I had to bet money I would bet she called her sister to b!tch. She comes back and sits at the edge of the table. By the end of dinner she was at the very edge of the table barely talking almost on her own island. Occasionally she talks to her Dad. Most of the time she is sitting there like a stick in the mud and texting on her phone. Pretty much everyone just ignored her bad behavior. It was embarrassing. Check came and she said to the waitress she wanted to split out her and D5 dinner (D5 just ate off W plate not a separate order) I told the waitress it's one check. W tried to put up a fight I looked her directly in the eye and said very firmly in a sit down and shut up tone it's one check and I've got it. It stopped her dead in her tracks.
Afterwards, out in the parking lot MIL starts crying to my mom about how they dont want to lose my parents. My mom reassures her that the grandparents arent getting divorced. The grandparents make plans for a get together in January. W helps me buckle the kids up in my rig and walks off. I have to holler at her to get her to comeback and say goodbye. She says it to S3 and D5, walk off again. I have to holler at her again to get her to come back to say goodbye to D8. Mind you this whole time the kids are hollering at her to say goodbye and she is either ignoring them or lost in her own world. W also pulls out a check to pay her portion of D8 bday present. Once I was ready to go I drive around the parking lot and see W car and the in-laws car, but they aren't around. I text W to see if she has the tax documents that she said she was bringing to the dinner. I was supposed to drop them off at our cpa the following morning. On the way home W calls me, and I answer instead of going to voicemail. Bad habit I need to break. W is seething in anger and her voice is shaking. She says TF just leave me alone for the rest of the night. I say ok W, I just forgot to get the tax docs. She says I am not giving them to you. You and the cpa will just have to do without, so just leave me alone tonight, ok? I say I can respect that have a good night. W hangs up. Ofcourse the next morning she is texting me asking me questions about the cpa. My response was to call the cpa because he can explain it better than I can. She also likes to call and leave no voicemail or text. These type of calls get zero response.
Something clicked or a switch flipped in me on the night of D8 bday. My W behavior at D8 bday dinner was just appalling. I still love her, but how can I be so wrapped up and attached to someone who behaves this way, especially around family and on her own daughters bday. I kind of wished that went she stepped away during dinner, that she wouldn't come back. It didn't affect my night or my time spend with the kids or family. I just feel different about her. Some of my other feelings are floating in the periphery, but they are a lot quieter. Maybe this is kind of what detachment feels like. Shrug.
Also I guess you could say what I did was devious or manipulative towards W. My response is I don't give a sh!t. She decided to step out of the MR. So now my priorities are the kids and this is what D8 wanted for her bday. Everyone knew what was going on, even her own parents. W just needs to grow the eff up.
You did perfect. Keep it up. Detachment is good.
... walks off. I have to holler at her to get her to comeback and say goodbye. She says it to S3 and D5, walk off again. I have to holler at her again to get her to come back to say goodbye to D8. Mind you this whole time the kids are hollering at her to say goodbye and she is either ignoring them or lost in her own world. ....
A little controlling, but I understand why you did this.
At some point, I had to just empathize with my kids.
I guess it was a little controlling? I mean she helped buckle them in and just walked off without saying anything. The kids were yelling "mommy, mommy, huggie goodbye. Mommy come back and say goodbye." Its kind of hard to sit there and not say anything. Then D8 was yelling "mommy why didn't you say goodbye to me?" I do empathize with them, but that was kind of hard to watch.
Reading your thread triggers my anger with my X when she was doing the same Cr4p 10 years ago. She is dragging you and your kids through the mud.
If you see it again, something like this might be needed:
H:"W, When you make other things more important than saying goodbye to our kids on their birthdays, I start questioning if you realize how much that hurts them.....If I see this again I will ...
R2C if your W was pulling the same kind of selfish behavior how did your kids R with their mom end up? Would she do this stuff only with you around or did she also do this to them on the days she had them?
The relationship is superficial. This quote stands out from S18: "My mom doesn't know me at all"
My Lady and I do the heavy lifting as far as the emotional parenting. Our kids are doing things that we do not necessarily approve of. But they are open and honest with us (for the most part). We let them know that we do not condone some of their behavior, but appreciate that they are sharing the truth with us.
The other quote
W "The kids are fine when they are at my house".....She lives in her fantasy world.
W "The kids are fine when they are at my house".....She lives in her fantasy world.
R2C my W says the exact same thing to me when I try to discuss the problems I notice the kids have when they are at my house. Is your W coaching my wife? Just kidding.
R2C my W says the exact same thing to me when I try to discuss the problems I notice the kids have when they are at my house. Is your W coaching my wife?
I am sure they are:
Most of the scripts and horrible behaviors are found at :
marriagebusting.com forums
Hopefully this ok to post. The gentleman basically describes the overarching general script or theme of a majority of sitch here on this board. I hear AS, LH, and others repeat his sentiment in posts. It's good info.
https://youtu.be/W7zgzuM0BCI
He understands the process well.
That is why it is so critical to give your spouse what they want ASAP. This is true love. Set them free, wish them well, you forgive them and focus on your own personal growth. During this process, you hit rock bottom.
Then time goes by. It has been over a year (or more) Then the hard part. They hit rock bottom. They come back. You are so far ahead of them now. You are now wiser. How do you love them now?
Great video, gives hope for when you're feeling down. Although he sort of makes it sound like just about ALL of them look back at some point. Consistent with AS's impression, for sure.
One way or another the grass will be greener for us.
Although he sort of makes it sound like just about ALL of them look back at some point.
Yeah but here's the rub, when they look back and they see the same beta they left behind they will keep moving forward. However if they see an alpha and they turn around, your'e an alpha and love and value yourself too much to take back someone who walked away from you. Not to mention your already have a hotter and younger companion anyway.
Not to mention you probably already have a hotter and younger companion anyway.
Are you peeking in my windows
and you forgot much better sex!
if they see an alpha and they turn around, your'e an alpha and love and value yourself too much to take back someone who walked away from you. Not to mention your already have a hotter and younger companion anyway.
So the net result is that our lives start being great, we’re free of their BS, and they end up being the fools? Strange though considering how very very happy she seems to think she’ll be without me... maybe we’ll both be better off.
Anyway, where’s the guy doing the video saying “WWs, don’t do your script, the grass isn’t greener, it’s a bad idea”? Haven’t they seen these videos?
Anyway, where’s the guy doing the video saying “WWs, don’t do your script, the grass isn’t greener, it’s a bad idea”? Haven’t they seen these videos?
Burned you can't can't use logic and reason with a WW. They are emotional creatures who are convinced that the LBS is the source of their unhappiness. This is all based on emotions. There is not a person alive who can convince them otherwise.
So the net result is that our lives start being great, we’re free of their BS, and they end up being the fools? Strange though considering how very very happy she seems to think she’ll be without me... maybe we’ll both be better off.
B,
Throughout this hell that you have been dealing with, look back on what you have accomplished, and ask yourself:
"Am I working on being TRULY happier? Have I had those moments of TRUE happiness? Who cares what anyone else thinks?"
I am going to say yes. Why? Because we are similar in our mindset, feelings, and actions. I know I have my genuinely happy moments in between moments of chaos and sadness. And those moments feel great. There is no "yeah, but" feeling. It's just..."yeah".
You have those moments as well. Your GAL stuff you're doing. The fish sandwich experience. Moments of TRUE happiness.
Keep detaching, B. Your mindset should be:
She does not give a damn about your feelings. Anything that gives off the impression otherwise should ALWAYS be a red flag and a hidden motive behind it. ALWAYS.
TRUST
NOTHING FROM HER.
You
WILL be better off, whether it's with or without her. Period.
Anyway, where’s the guy doing the video saying “WWs, don’t do your script, the grass isn’t greener, it’s a bad idea”? Haven’t they seen these videos?
They have been band from Youtube. The truth is too scary and emotionally damaging to the WW's
Wanted,
Sorry, I thought this was burned's thread.
But apply what I said to you too.
During this process, you hit rock bottom.
Then time goes by. It has been over a year (or more) Then the hard part. They hit rock bottom. They come back. You are so far ahead of them now. You are now wiser. How do you love them now?
Exactly. I've talked to a lot of LBS's in real life that couldn't, and in fact the sentiment is usually "I can't believe I didn't just hold the door open for him/her when he/she said she wanted to leave."
Although he sort of makes it sound like just about ALL of them look back at some point. Consistent with AS's impression, for sure.
I do say that a lot which is ironic considering my ex has never approached me about recon. However, her attitude now versus just after BD is much different. Not that she was ever mean to me even after BD, but she didn't want to have ANYTHING to do with me. She couldn't stand me. Now she's inviting me to do stuff, asking me to come over and help with things, telling people what an awesome guy I am. It's so drastically different. And that's really what I try to preach here is that the WAS is more than likely going to have a change of heart some day. Whether that leads to a recon request or not is hard to say, but she's not always going to treat you like a leper.
Yeah but here's the rub, when they look back and they see the same beta they left behind they will keep moving forward. However if they see an alpha and they turn around, your'e an alpha and love and value yourself too much to take back someone who walked away from you. Not to mention your already have a hotter and younger companion anyway.
Word
and you forgot much better sex!
So true. To think what I would have settled for after S if it just meant recon. Hell I probably would have agreed to a sexless marriage. Now? Oh no I don't think so! I accept nothing less than toe-curling, eyelid fluttering experiences now, LOL!
There's this scene on the show Vikings that reminds me so much of the WAS's here. Rollo goes to the Seer and is despondent after losing everything and asks if his life is over. The Seer laughs and says "Oh Rollo, if you knew what the gods have in store for you, you would go down right now and dance naked on the beach!" So many of you think you're at the end when in fact you've got a future ahead of you that is going to blow your mind.
So let's say if you do what the guy says or similarly follow DB which is to stop the pursuit and GAL and minimize the backsliding so that his overarching script becomes true for you. You become AMOAFWL. I dont think he was guaranteeing an attempt for recon. I mean there is also the chance the WAS wants to recon, but they know they have no chance and just don't bother. The WAS just has to eat that regret sandwich for the rest of their lives (I find this really sad). Look at AS, sounds like he upgraded for a better younger model. He says his WAS never attempted to reconcile, but maybe she would want to and feels or knows she has no chance. Maybe or maybe not.
Looking to comeback is not the same as an attempt to comeback.
TF- I think your wife is closer to the realization then you think but you need to keep making that grass greener around your lighthouse. Don't push her just back off and let her flounder for a while. She's thinking about you and she's especially watching you now over the holidays. Make sure you keep it fun and light. Merry Christmas TF
TF,
After the holidays I am going to challenge you to get some time and space away from your W. I have been following your story from day one and you have had a lot of complaints about your W. Once the dust starts to settle your may very well start to feel different.
Trust me if and when your W wants to recon she will let you know. Remember you have young kids, she could easily say lets recon for the kids.
Merry Christmas and stay strong my friend.
Trust me if and when your W wants to recon she will let you know. Remember you have young kids, she could easily say lets recon for the kids.
I hope she says "I love you and I made a terrible mistake".
Trust me if and when your W wants to recon she will let you know. Remember you have young kids, she could easily say lets recon for the kids.
I hope she says "I love you and I made a terrible mistake".
TF, I hope we all hear that one day. I want to work to make those words a reality on her lips one day.
(((Hugs)))
Well she doesn't know it but I was able to confirm her PA today. She came over for Christmas morning per child plan. D5 asked her to clean up D5 after using the bathroom. W left her phone open on the table so I looked. Pics and texts going back and forth. Texts talking about meeting at each others places and times for sex. I took some pics with my phone in case any divorce proceedings go sideways and I need leverage. Sad thing is both of these two people can lose their jobs for this. I won't be doing anything about it because I need my W to keep her job. You know when you thought you knew someone and their "morals" you really know nothing. You really only know yourself. I am pretty shook up right now, but I will be ok. It's not a be all end all just another wave and I won't let me knock myself off my boat. Just going to keep moving forward with the kids and have a good Christmas.
I don't know if I should fully expose this affair and blow it up, but its probably too late. Not sure how I feel about recon right now. I still feel like I want it, but everything is so new and I need to process everything. If anything this just raises the bar even higher if she ever wants to recon.
I want to end this post on a high note. Merry Christmas everyone.
Well she doesn't know it but I was able to confirm her PA today. She came over for Christmas morning per child plan. D5 asked her to clean up D5 after using the bathroom. W left her phone open on the table so I looked. Pics and texts going back and forth. Texts talking about meeting at each others places and times for sex. I took some pics with my phone in case any divorce proceedings go sideways and I need leverage. Sad thing is both of these two people can lose their jobs for this. I won't be doing anything about it because I need my W to keep her job. You know when you thought you knew someone and their "morals" you really know nothing. You really only know yourself. I am pretty shook up right now, but I will be ok. It's not a be all end all just another wave and I won't let me knock myself off my boat. Just going to keep moving forward with the kids and have a good Christmas.
I don't know if I should fully expose this affair and blow it up, but its probably too late. Not sure how I feel about recon right now. I still feel like I want it, but everything is so new and I need to process everything. If anything this just raises the bar even higher if she ever wants to recon.
I want to end this post on a high note. Merry Christmas everyone.
I'm really sorry TF. Even though we assume that our S is having an affair it hurts just as much if not more so when you do find the proof.
R should be the furthest thing from your mind, especially now. Just grit your teeth and keep on going.
Sorry man, it’s a bad day for it. But really any day is a bad day to find out something like that.
Don’t blow it up. Remember, we want what we can’t have. Don’t make it so she can’t have him, just let it burn out. I’m speaking from serious first-hand experience.
Stay strong. Remember, you’re the original. You’re the prize. You are David Lee Roth and every album after 1984 is just junk.
Well she doesn't know it but I was able to confirm her PA today.
Hey man , I just wanted to say I am really sorry you had to find out on Christmas. I remember back to when my sitch was about 3 months old and it was also around Christmas time. Was by far the worst Christmas of my life. Yesterday was our first Christmas apart as a family. My ex came over to open gifts with the kids. First time I had face to face convo since my daughters birthday in September. If I had to categorize my feelings I would say annoyed. She doesn't listen to what I say and she tries to act like nothing has changed.
Anyways she left and I really don't feel anything towards her at all. Actually, I am finding myself being very grateful that all things considered, I am luck to have the ex that I have.
Remember not too long ago I told you that it would get worse before it go better. Consider yourself one step closer in that direction. I still believe that all things considered you have a really great chance at recon if you choose.
I just think you will be so far ahead of her that you will choose not to look back.
Well I am pretty heartbroken....again. It is like the rug keeps getting pulled out from underneath me. Like LH says it's going to keep getting worse. Which it is. The load on my back is heavy and the weight just keeps getting added. I am not sure how much I can take, but fortunately or unfortunately I have a strong back and I can handle more. I don't fight the pain or hold back the pain. I just sit here as patiently as I can letting the pain flow through me. I just can't wait till the pain goes away or is so minuscule that its rarely noticed.
I really wish W would just leave me alone. Unfortunately, due to timing (holidays and divorce proceedings) I have to interact with her a little more than I want to. W blew up my phone today, but I ignored it. She started texting saying I needed to call her about the divorce paperwork. So I called her up. Luckily, she was in her office so she had to stay relatively calm. Paperwork for the final decree was going to be emailed for our approval, before submittal to the judge. W had to pay filling upfront so she needs half payment. We started to have a disagreement about child scheduling portion as she said nothing was going to be included and we were doing all that off the books. I later found out she was misinformed as the mediator followed our 2-2-3 plan and put a generic holiday schedule in for us to change. Anyway, she wants as little to be handled by the court as possible. To a point I agree, however I told her we have to have a baseline to fall back on when things don't work out. That's why we have rules and laws. She gets mad and wants to know who is whispering in my ear, she thought we were going to have a successful coparents R. She starts threatening going and getting a lawyer, etc. I just counteracted with validation and letting her know that at this point neither of us could afford to go that route. She brought up a few other things she was trying to bully me on, but I de-escalated her arguements. Hell, she even implied that she didn't want to have to take the kids away from me. Lol that argument would be weak and I have been gathering information since BD to protect myself if things really got sideways. I also had the opportunity to drop my leverage on her as she doesn't want the 6 months OP introduction clause in the decree and says she is not dating or seeing anyone. I could have used the R2C we both know your lying prompt, but what's done is done and I think I just need to move forward and keep the roads paved smooth.
Like LH and a few of you vets say this is at least a year before it all plays out. I'm really starting to come to terms with the marathon. I hurt very badly, but I am going to try and pivot really hard on these emotions, and this experience to better myself with a new zeal. I am quinching the little voice in my head to improve for her or to attract her. No, I am doing this for me and me alone.
I still stand for my M and recon right now. What's going to happen down the road as I am moving forward and it appears she isn't?
Hell, she even implied that she didn't want to have to take the I am quinching the little voice in my head to improve for her or to attract her. No, I am doing this for me and me alone.
It's too late to edit, but I want to replace quinching with silencing.
Just focus on bettering yourself. That is what I am doing. I have had a real shift of mentality lately wherein I am very literal when I say "My goal for myself is XXX and this will improve XXX for me". The little voice in my head is no longer screaming at me "will this make her change? Will this make her look at you differently? Will this make her stop her A and come back?
The last big decision I am having a very hard time with is moving out. Some say stay IHS because it shows I am strong, some say move out because I will never heal. I am healing, but yes much slower if I stay, but me staying is keeping consistency for the kids at a bare minimum. WW and I are not fighting. Yes there is still an awkward tension in the air when we are both home. I do a great job of NC even when she is home. If WW asks me something I will answer her, but other than that I have kept it to just hi when I see her. I don't tell her bye though.
WW likes to say "good morning" etc. I just say "hi".
ST,
I was always bettering me for myself, but if I am being honest there was a voice in the back of my head driving me to do it for her as well. I guess you could say having an expectation. W moving out was in itself devastating. However, once she moved out, I set the tone and the house was more peaceful. My young children take about an hour to adjust to the tone once I have them. From then on its usually pretty smooth sailing as far as little ones go. What I also appreciate about W leaving is I am left alone to grieve and sort through my own emotions. It hurts and is a hard process, but I am working through it. You can see what really gets me going is my interactions with W or new info I learn that while I assumed was true I was basically in denial about. Looking at it from a birds eye view her interactions with me are basically veiled attempts to control me at some level. I easily resist them and outwardly appear unphased, but internally I get rocked. I think this is why detachment is so important.
ST,
I was always bettering me for myself, but if I am being honest there was a voice in the back of my head driving me to do it for her as well. I guess you could say having an expectation. W moving out was in itself devastating. However, once she moved out, I set the tone and the house was more peaceful. My young children take about an hour to adjust to the tone once I have them. From then on its usually pretty smooth sailing as far as little ones go. What I also appreciate about W leaving is I am left alone to grieve and sort through my own emotions. It hurts and is a hard process, but I am working through it. You can see what really gets me going is my interactions with W or new info I learn that while I assumed was true I was basically in denial about. Looking at it from a birds eye view her interactions with me are basically veiled attempts to control me at some level. I easily resist them and outwardly appear unphased, but internally I get rocked. I think this is why detachment is so important.
I agree, it is very important. Detaching is for us, not for them. If I allow myself to get drawn back in at all I get very hurt very fast and I hit that roller coaster at mach 1. When I just live my life and ignore WW, I get along much better. I honestly feel like I am being rude to WW. I am not trying to be rude, I guess that is the attachment I have still. That I don't want to be rude to someone that is actively disrespecting me.
I am drawn to my WW. I want to talk with her and visit with her. I know she enjoys it. I find myself once in a while doing things like I used to, out of habit. For example, WW was at the fridge and I was trying to also get something from the fridge. WW backed up toward me and instinctively I put my hand out and put it on her waist from behind and squeezed gently. I immediately noticed what I was doing and stopped. WW didn't recoil, remove my hand or say anything at all.
I have to make an effort to not do things like that. I was always touching my WW constantly. WW would walk by and I would stop her and kiss her, hug her, smack her rear, rub her back, tickle her etc. Now I just avoid her. WW still will not look me in the eyes when she walks by me. If she speaks to me I look her in the eyes and she cannot retain eye contact for more than a few seconds before she looks away.
Swung by W house yesterday to drop off some things D8 had called me and said she needed. A very quick in and out. I hugged and kissed my 3 children, and answered some random question from my W. I said goodbye to everyone and left. My emotional pain and heartache has been pretty intense so I was glad that I had an IC appointment scheduled yesterday.
IC looked at my PA evidence and told me that what I have is not evidence a judge would rule as a PA (not going to take it to court anyway it's just going to stay as no fault). IC says all I have is evidence of sexting (I feel dumb). W is clearly in a EA with signs of it heading towards a PA or possibly already in a PA, but no proof. IC says I have the info I have, but I need to change my focus towards myself. We talk about what I am doing to heal. I ask how long will it take to heal because this intense pain is exhausting. In her experience she says if you do all the right things the recovery process is usually a year, the worst she has seen is 5 years. I ask about W moving into a new R this fast and IC says that she can't speak for W (W dropped IC), but she likely hasn't healed.
We talk about my boundaries when interacting with wife. I tell IC some of the things D8 tells me about (ex mommy forgot to make us dinner last night so we had to go find our own food). I tell IC it just feels like W is trying to exert control at some level on me. IC reminds me I am dealing with someone who has mentally and emotionally regressed to a teenager or whatever point in her life she feels she missed out. IC says I need to treat her as such. IC reminds me again that W doesn't want me as a H, but wants some of the benefits of me as a H ie. her control attempts, and that's why boundaries are so critical. Fortunately, I think I have been doing okay with my boundaries post S, because her reactions are usually anger or fits when she runs headfirst into my boundaries. I tell IC I wish W was still seeing her for therapy. IC says what is the point in that? She says you don't want someone in therapy if they don't want to be there, she says someday W will seek help again when she is ready. We then discuss some of my MR history and how and why we are were we are. I also discuss the challenging predicament of being a divorced Catholic and what that means. We also discussed the yet unknown opportunities I can pursue that may not have been available while M. She said some of her patients have had great career and life opportunities come about that didn't or wouldn't likely occur until after D.
Afterwards I felt better, like a lot had been lifted off my chest. I wanted to keep up that PMA and so I dusted off my old gear and went night skiing. First time in 6 to 8 years. I was exhausted afterwards and was glad to hit the bed. I was wracked with multiple dreams of my W. Unfortunately, I woke up with that dull ache in my heart this morning. I am going to find something to do today to keep the PMA going till I get the kids later today. Then we are going to do a lot of family GAL this weekend.
TwoFeet,
it sounds terrible to say, but you are still "early" in your situation. I'd say a year of healing can go a long way, just like your IC said. But we are all individuals on our own timelines.
You're still emotionally wound up. I've been at this for 9 months, and my emotions are just starting to cool. It takes time and work. Make sure you are doing the work to heal whether that is IC, GAL, gym, work and child focus. AnotherStander talks about how busy he got in his life post divorce and that is what helps you get out and enjoy your life.
What have you been up to outside of your sitch?
TwoFeet,
What have you been up to outside of your sitch?
Ovr,
I lift 3 days a week and I was running 3 days. Its colder than I like for running so I will swap that out for night skiing. Probably can't do it 3 days a week, but 1 to 2 days. Once the kids are back in school I was thinking about checking a hot yoga place out in town. I was lean bulking, but my emotional state isn't as good as it should be and I have been losing weight again. I could do a regular bulk, but eating like that is always a hassle.
Going to build a website and biz cards next week for my side business. I dont like SM, but some of my industry buddies say I need an IG to tie in with my website. I guess it's a really good way to get connections in my field. I will just keep it as impersonal as possible.
I have been spending a lot of time with my family. They are a good group for support and during my MR my wife would try to isolate or limit the time we spent with them. Usually unsuccessfully because I wouldn't put up with that. I am going to a NYE party at my sis and her fiancee's house. My social circle is pretty wide but not very deep. I know quite a few people very casually, but I only have 2 deep friendships here in my home state. I left a very robust social circle back in the state I used to live in. My social circle is an area that needs improvement.
I was supposed to do some bird hunting with FIL, but I was just too caught up with everything. We will probably just start back up fishing in the spring as long as our R doesn't go by the wayside.
It definitely takes effort to do these things as I feel like I am fighting the blues.
It definitely takes effort to do these things as I feel like I am fighting the blues.
I know where you are coming from. It takes a lot of energy to not only deal with the chaos we're dealing with, but to also pull ourselves out of it and do something positive.
It sounds terrible to say, but you are still "early" in your situation. I'd say a year of healing can go a long way, just like your IC said. But we are all individuals on our own timelines.
Time is a blessing. I am finding it to be a tremendous asset in my healing and growth. I'm 5 months in and I feel like a much better version of pain18. That being said, the previous 7 months leading up to the growth was about me discovering and removing the layers of old pain18. It was stripped bare and vulnerable by the time I joined the board.
I am just starting to slowly experience relief, key word being
SLOWLY. Maybe I'll be strong enough for when the next thing gets thrown at me or maybe nothing will happen and I continue what I am doing and get stronger.
This quote becomes clearer by the day:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
My social circle is an area that needs improvement.
I was going to ask, but then you said it. Looks like a lot of GAL is individual activities.
Good luck on the website. I have been procrastinating mine. I have about 6 word press sites started. I also manage companies. So much easier than the old days.
My social circle is an area that needs improvement.
I was going to ask, but then you said it. Looks like a lot of GAL is individual activities.
Good luck on the website. I have been procrastinating mine. I have about 6 word press sites started. I also manage companies. So much easier than the old days.
I'm going to see if there are some skiing meetups. I don't mind giving someone a ride up the hill in an effort to meet new people. I am an introvert and while I am good at socializing it always takes a mental effort to force myself to do so.
Is wordpress a good one to use as a website? I was thinking about adding a blog component to tie into the IG & the website. Trying to broaden the interest to attract clients to my side gig.
TwoFeet,
What have you been up to outside of your sitch?
Ovr,
I lift 3 days a week and I was running 3 days. Its colder than I like for running so I will swap that out for night skiing. Probably can't do it 3 days a week, but 1 to 2 days. Once the kids are back in school I was thinking about checking a hot yoga place out in town. I was lean bulking, but my emotional state isn't as good as it should be and I have been losing weight again. I could do a regular bulk, but eating like that is always a hassle.
Going to build a website and biz cards next week for my side business. I dont like SM, but some of my industry buddies say I need an IG to tie in with my website. I guess it's a really good way to get connections in my field. I will just keep it as impersonal as possible.
I have been spending a lot of time with my family. They are a good group for support and during my MR my wife would try to isolate or limit the time we spent with them. Usually unsuccessfully because I wouldn't put up with that. I am going to a NYE party at my sis and her fiancee's house. My social circle is pretty wide but not very deep. I know quite a few people very casually, but I only have 2 deep friendships here in my home state. I left a very robust social circle back in the state I used to live in. My social circle is an area that needs improvement.
I was supposed to do some bird hunting with FIL, but I was just too caught up with everything. We will probably just start back up fishing in the spring as long as our R doesn't go by the wayside.
It definitely takes effort to do these things as I feel like I am fighting the blues.
How do you lean bulk? I am to the point where I need to gain lean muscle so that this stupid little gut i have gets burned away.
ST,
Go to YT and look up Athlean-X. He has a vid on the science behind it.
Is wordpress a good one to use as a website?
I compared multiple web design packages. I believe it is the most popular. Many free themes. Many choices for shopping carts etc...Great tutorials on youtube. I am using cloudfare for the free ssl. I did a couple test runs and have not looked back.
Does the WW ever feel remorse for breaking up the family? Is it the usual the kids will be alright spiel to justify to themselves and their actions? I ask because we now have had to put D5 into therapy with D8. W says she is concerned, but her actions lend me to believe otherwise. It's funny because the old W would do anything for the kids. They were her be all. The WW still loves them, but they have taken a much much lower priority in her life. They are young and unless something happens with W and I down the road they will never get live the whole family life that W and I enjoyed growing up. You want better for your children. This is not it.
TF,
Think about these two lesser the evil situations and let me know your answer.
Situation #1. Your W puts your children first before her PERCEIVED happiness and ends her A and calls off the divorced. You stay married for the sake of the kids but she never becomes fully committed to you again because she believes there is something better out there. You spend the next 15 years wondering if she files again after your youngest is out of the house.
Situation #2. She continues with D and continues relationship with OM. You take time to heal and continue to better yourself. After the dust settles and your emotions start to stabilize you start to realize that your ex had many flaws that you didn't see. Once healed maybe you start another relationship with a woman who is way better then your ex in all aspects of life. She likes to work through problems not run from them. Maybe your ex comes to her senses and wants to reconcile and will do anything to EARN another chance with you.
I don't know about you but I would take option 2 everyday and twice on Sundays. Yes it's a risk that she doesn't come back , but she has to choose to be with you for it to work out long-term.
Thanks LH. You know what option I would take. I just had to do some venting to let off steam and let out hurt. This forum is very therapeutic. I don't have many I can talk to IRL and I feel my family already knows too much from their own sleuthing. I appreciate the voice of reason you provide.
My WW shows no remorse. She is infatuated with OM and her perceived happiness. She doesnt care about anyone else's happiness.
Never underestimate the selfish component of waywardness. I was on that dark side time ago...
TF- The OM is a distraction to your WW and as long as she sees him as a viable option she will continue to justify her actions and she has to demonize you in order to justify her selfish actions. She's justifying to herself that she has the better option in the OM. The thing to remember is that she hasn't dropped you in her mind she is thinking about you probably more than the OM. She tries to bait you into arguments, make you mad, lose your temper, or even a powerful one get you to make controlling acts and snooping would be one of those trying to keep control. You may not see your actions as controlling but she will take just about any action as controlling and she will use that in her mind to justify her actions. She's a different person because she has to be in order to justify why her actions are okay. The only way to counter that is detachment. She will bait you so when she calls and says we have to make a decision on this you need to decide if it's a fight you are willing to fight. The kids are paying a price for her selfish actions. But less contact with her can only mean less conflict. She calls don't answer at first. If she texts you don't be afraid to text back busy I'll get in touch with you later. And then when you do. She will probably bring something up that really in the grand scheme of things is not at all important and you need to treat it as such. Simple okay to pissy demands doesn't mean you have to follow through just say ok, and then is that all because I have to get ready for something. No details and please don't ask her what she's been up to or doing? Don't snoop let her be free, because freedom will make her wonder if you care and the little signs you will notice will be calls and text of hey how you doing? What of you been up to? Things like that. When that happens don't respond with details come back here and ask for advice because those are signs but you wont' want to rush when you see them. It's a whole different dating game and you will need advice from people on here who have been through it before yo mess it up because it's a fragile time. But you really right now need to let go. It's the only chance of possibly getting your old wife back.
Again,
Unless I slip up out of old habits I do not answer any of my W phone calls and I only return phone calls if she leaves a voicemail or text message requesting a callback. This boundary has prevented a lot of phone calls where she calls and blows up. The couple of times when I did slip up and answer immediately she called to flip out on me, to which I have mentioned these infrequent incidents in previous posts. I also rarely immediately respond to any of her texts unless its important and it usually isn't. Phone calls and texts both have a cooling off period so I can stay off the rollercoaster. My IC says I need to think of her as someone who is mentally and emotionally a teenager. She definitely has had lapse where I wonder if she can mentally function. She couldn't even do basic math and tried to pay me almost double what she owed me.
I do not ask her what she is doing or how she has been, and I never volunteer anything other than a I am doing fine thank you. If we have a face to face handoff or a child centered activity (bday, Christmas, etc.) she will feed me little incites of her life. I just smile and remain cordial, I listen, and I don't linger or inquire on anything. One handoff earlier this month she asked me if I wanted to stay and eat. That felt like a big temp check and I had plans. It just seems like recently most of the texts and calls are initiated by her. In fact she just reached out to me tonight via text to see if I want to continue to share the accounts of Netflix and Hulu. I will probably do this and split costs, but it's late so I will sit on it and respond tomorrow.
I feel like she knows the children are my weak spot and I think she has been softly trying to exploit that. Such as when she wanted the childplan pulled from the mediated decree (she wants to coparent without boundaries), her feigned interest in the kids therapy. Even threatening to stop paying her portion of the kids private school despite her making more money than me, and a Christian education always being a high priority for her in the past. I just don't get the motivation or the why's behind some of her actions with the kids.
I have mentioned it before, I am really coming to terms with the concept of the saying it's a marathon not a sprint. Problem is I am training for the marathon while running it and it sure can be exhausting at times. Detachment will help with that marathon, but man this whole thing has been one tough pill to swallow. A bit intimidating.
Again et al.,
She text me again this morning. She has to go into the city for work Wednesday and wants to know if it's okay for her to sign the decree to be submitted to the judge. We were currently waiting to hear back from our cpa to make sure the tax and finance piece of the decree looked okay. Now I can understand her seeing this a legitimate need to reach out. However, as I said yesterday it seems like she has been initiating all the contact. There is always something she needs to bring up. I want to let her go and I NEED to let her go, but it always feels like its something with her.
I am busy with the kids this morning so when I have time today I will respond to her text from last night and this morning.
TF,
When the holidays are done and the divorce is final you have to make it crystal clear to your W that unless it involves the kids to please not contact you. If she asks why, just tell her that you need to heal and move on with your life. Also, make it clear one time that you have no desire to be friends with her.
Then you must stick to your boundaries. If she asks how you are, she gets no response. If she asks how to hook up the internet, she gets no response.
Down the road when/if you no longer are interested in recon you can entertain establishing a friendship with her.
LH19,
If there is never a chance for recon or I don't want one down the road, there will never be a friendship. A romantic relationship or a coparent relationship only.
TF,
You do not know what the future holds my friend. As we all know by finding this board, feelings change over time.
LH,
Well then for now all I can continue to do is to hope and pray for a recon and move forward with my life and act as if.
Hey TF,
I’ve been following along but I didn’t really have much to add until I thought about you and your sitch.
Seems like the Ws who file fast are the ones who change their minds fast. That makes me hopeful for you.
I also find a strange kind of hope in the fact that your W, wayward as she may be, had the integrity to file and leave before starting physical A. That, to me, suggests that she still has some respect for you and the M. Not enough to stop the train, but enough that when the train runs out of coal she will still consider you a member of the same species. Contrast that to some of us here whose Ws led double lives for months or years. I mean, that’s the kind of betrayal that represents hostility and disrespect of the worst kind.
So, for whatever that’s worth to you, from an outsider’s perspective it shows me that your W isn’t as crazy as you might feel she is. Just scared, hurt, trying to do the right thing in a situation that is wrong no matter how you cut it.
Stay strong. Keep the faith.
Well then for now all I can continue to do is to hope and pray for a recon and move forward with my life and act as if.
TF, I am not sure who posted this but they posted a quote about God not waving a magic wand and have things become instantly better. God instead hands you a trowel for you to dig yourself out, one small scoop at a time.
I stopped praying for WW to come back to our lives and am now grateful for being by my side and helping me make the progress I am making as well as asking for him to continue to guide me and have me come out being the following persons:
- A better man
- A better father
- A better brother
- A better friend
- A better employee
- A better boyfriend
- A better husband
For my WW, I just ask that she finds peace and happiness.
Pray for strength. Pray for relief. Pray for an end to this.
I agree with burned. I think your W does have respect for you because you for the most part show strength. The ones I really worry about are the ones were the WW talk about their APs with like there is nothing wrong with it. That shows lack of respect.
Also, TF there is no acting as if. Trust me she will know. Until she truly feels she may lose you forever, she will not change her stance.
there is no acting as if. Trust me she will know. Until she truly feels she may lose you forever, she will not change her stance.
She
NEEDS to FEEL she HAS lost you. The sooner the better.
W text me a screenshot from her FB of the kids school FB of me and S3 during a Christmas event I attended. I don't know why but it got my heart pumping and my adrenaline running. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I don't think I should respond. Is she just fishing for pursuit?
I have to do a face to face handoff today, not looking forward to it.
W text me a screenshot from her FB of the kids school FB of me and S3 during a Christmas event I attended. I don't know why but it got my heart pumping and my adrenaline running. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I don't think I should respond. Is she just fishing for pursuit?
I have to do a face to face handoff today, not looking forward to it.
Do you have kids tonight? If so enjoy them. If not, enjoy your personal time.
Today my kids got back for my 1/2 of the Xmas break. Lots of teenagers at the house. Going to hang here at the house with kids. Maybe go out from 10-12 for adult time.
No, I dropped them off at her house. We did the usual kids and logistic convo we do on face to face handoffs. The kids wanted to drag me around the house again to show me more new stuff W bought again. Tried to make it fast as I could. W tried to get me to stay and have dinner. I said I really appreciate the offer, but I have plans and I need to be going. She tried to stall me some more with non-essential logistics and kid talk. I had her walk me out we waved goodbye and I drove off.
I was not going to stay for dinner. I am not going to be some friendzoned male orbiter to my freaking W. That is plan b BS and while I did slip up back at the first of the month and basically say I want to be a backup plan she is going to figure out that's not the case. My actions will be louder than my words.
Anyway I went to dinner with my folks and I am going to head over to my sister's NYE house party. Sounds like quite a few people will be there. Should put me out of my comfort zone. Good practice, good fun.
You are doing great. Keep pushing the comfort zone. You will not regret it.
Hey TF, I've been following a bit and I'm with you.
I told W the other day, I don't think we can be friends if it went there... Initially when I found the forum, the first post I read about was the guy who stayed friends when his WAS was with OM(and they eventually Recon). I thought that took courage. Then I realized WAS friend zones anyways and many LBH are too nice to stand up for themselves. It takes courage to grab the bull by the horns.
Enjoy the NYE party.
TF,
You’re not anybody’s fuching plan B!
Happy New Year!
The kids wanted to drag me around the house again to show me more new stuff W bought again. Tried to make it fast as I could.
It's hard when your kids are too small to understand. I suggest you try to stick close to the door and making your get away quickly as possible. If you are dropping them off, there's really no reason to go inside, is there?
W tried to get me to stay and have dinner. I said I really appreciate the offer, but I have plans and I need to be going. She tried to stall me some more with non-essential logistics and kid talk. I had her walk me out we waved goodbye and I drove off.
Good job!
Anyway I went to dinner with my folks and I am going to head over to my sister's NYE house party. Sounds like quite a few people will be there. Should put me out of my comfort zone. Good practice, good fun.
Terrific!!
Hey Sandi,
I step into the entryway to exchange. Hug and kiss my kids and that's it. W does the same when dropping them off at my house.
On another note. W dropped off the kids yesterday morning because she wanted work and I have the week off, so I took advantage of extra time with my children. She wanted to sign the decree yesterday and wanted to know about the CPA. I told her he would call me and I let her know. Later I followed up with a text that I heard from him and everything looked ok. She went down and signed. Later she blew up my phone with texts and calls. She wanted to bump D8 into the next level of her rec activity and wanted to run it by me. I was busy with the kids so I hadn't had a chance to check the text, but eventually I answered one of her calls when I had time. It wasn't an emergency, but they had one slot open so she was pushing to get D8 in asap. She also wanted to sign D8 up for other activities. I asked if she was wanted my opinion. She said yes so I said let's stick to 1 activity at a time. I wanted to get D5 signed up for something as well and we don't need to further complicate our lives. She seemed receptive to what I said.
She started idle chit chat so I took the cue and said the kids and I are busy gotta run. She then stopped me from hanging up to pressure me into going down to sign the decree. I said I planned on next week when the kids are in school. I said I was not about to take the kids with me to the lawyer/mediators to sign the decree. She offered to exchange the kids Friday earlier so I could do it. I said no D8 has an appointment and we have plans (I am not about to cut time short with my kids because W wants to pressure me to sign the certificate of death on our M). I asked what is the rush the judge is going to sit on it for 2 or 3 weeks before they sign off on it anyway. Me signing few days later doesn't seem that significant. She didn't have an answer, and said she didn't want to pressure me (despite doing just that). After this I told her truthfully I did need to go.
All day she was texting me and emailing me about various child or finance related things. I responded in kind on my own time. Then late last night came what I guess was the temp check. She was asking about a recipe/bake kit/brand I use for a bread. Since it's not child/family/finance related never responded. Maybe she will get the hint or maybe I will have to tell her like LH said, we aren't not friends so unless it's the co-parent topics of children/family/finances do not contact me, I need to heal and move forward.
When that time comes I have a couple different responses in my head and I will post them here before I use one. I feel like it will be hard. It's like the LBS version of the BD.
TF,
One of the most important things that I learned from Corey Wayne is that when someone changes the terms of a relationship that you walk and never look back until you get the terms that are acceptable to you. If you do not you are not being true to yourself.
She wants to press you for a D, run around with OM and still exchange bread secrets with you. No fuching way!
I will have to tell her like LH said, we aren't not friends so unless it's the co-parent topics of children/family/finances do not contact me, I need to heal and move forward.
When that time comes I have a couple different responses in my head and I will post them here before I use one. I feel like it will be hard. It's like the LBS version of the BD.
Running them past us is a good choice. Even if you don't use it, someone else reading your thread may.
TF, sorry to hear about the PA or "almost PA" you discovered, but it's not really surprising. Most WAS's consider themselves divorced at BD and free to do whatever they want when it comes to pursuing others. I think it's probably upsetting you because you were still clinging to the notion that maybe somewhere down deep she still loves you and wants to be with you and that this is all just a bad dream that'll wash away with the morning light. But the reality is she is 100% done and pursuing her fantasy "perfect" life without you. It hurts but now you know and can live your life accordingly. Again I'll just remind you that this is how she feels right now, at this one particular moment in time. That doesn't mean she won't have a change of heart later, chances are she will. But it's going to be way down the road.
As far as her pushing you to sign the decree, I suspect there's something else going on, like maybe OM won't be physical with her until it's signed out of some messed up sense of perceived nobility. Contributing to breaking up a marriage is what it is though, he's certainly no knight in shining armor.
Sounds like you are handling things well as far as trying to detach as much as you can, so well done. Keep it up! I think you'll come out of this a lot better/ stronger/ happier than she will.
TF- I wonder if the pushing for the decree to be signed is trying to get closure on the situation. I think she finds herself thinking about you all the time and maybe she thinks that with the decree signed she will finally be grazing on those greener pastures that she thinks over there but isn't sure because she's still tied to you on this side of the fence. Just my two cents. Probably doesn't mean a thing. Be the lighthouse and run your marathon.