Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: NIBS 28 Years! - 10/21/18 05:49 PM
Hello Everyone,
Where to begin … I have been lurking on these forums for the past few weeks. Boy what an eye opener. So much heartbreak and solid advice. Learned a lot already. I stated off doing all the wrong things, but I think I am now on the right track, thanks to you all. Baby steps, right?
Summary –
I am 47 Years old, my wife is 47 years old and we have 2 daughters D24 and D23. D24 also has a daughter D3 (GD3). We have been married since 1996 and together full time since 1989 (28 years).
September 16, 2018 was Bomb Drop day (BD day). I was shocked and unprepared. I got the I love you but I’m not in love with you anymore speech. Was not prepared. I went into a sort of shock and broke down immediately. Pursue, convince, beg, did it all. OOPS. She says she has been in a deep depression for years and needs to focus / find herself. The only way she can see doing that is to work towards a divorce via in house separation. We are separated but living in the same house with D13, she sleeps in a spare room.
History –
Wife born and raised in Brooklyn NY. When she was 15, she was I a bad car accident that killed her then boyfriend. She has since been terrified of driving and she never got her driver license, even to this day. She is currently taking drivers classes and should be able to get her license after 30+ years. I am actually very excited for her, it will be very liberating for her. I cannot imagine being trapped in a house for 30 years without someone else having to drive you everywhere you want to go.
When she was 16-17 she was date raped and hid a pregnancy from her friends and family, she ended up with a partial birth abortion in the 8th month. Very difficult for her.
In 2005 she was diagnosed with Sjogren’s disease and Fibromyalgia. This causes all the fluids in her body to dry up and causes intense pain and discomfort in all her nerves and joints. It also causes real bad arthritis and a dry Vagina/mouth/eyes. Sex can be painful for her, has been for years. Lube has been our friend. She takes hormones / opioids and some other stuff to help with pain and fluid retention. But it’s been years with no real progress.
Her father bailed on her and her mom when she was 3 years old. He left and never came back. She still talks about this a lot, I can see it is a great source of pain for her. She refuses any kind of counseling, both now an back then.
I was a Navy Brat. We moved every 3 years and I had to lose old friends and make new ones. Lived in Japan/Alaska/Maine/Texas/Connecticut and a few other places. I am an IT manager and have always been able to make ends meet. Lost a few jobs over the years due to layoff’s but have always been able to bounce back and get a new job making more money than before. This enabled my wife to stay at home with the kids for the past 20+ years, as was her preference. Because of that, we have raised 2 wonderful daughters. I owe 90% to her being there for the kids when I was younger. Don’t recall ever changing a diaper. My dad died when I was 18 and my mom died about 3 years ago. Just have 1 older brother left in my side of the family and he is less than stable in his current marriage. Not one I would seek advice from. That just leaves you all 8).

In 2005 ish, I came home from work one day to find my wife in the arms of another woman. They were spooning on the couch fully clothed. The woman was my D24 dance instructor, and my wife tells me that while she has been curious about women for a long time, she had never acted on it and she did not cross any physical boundaries with the OW. Obviously, there was an emotional connection. So, I started snooping and found an email from my wife to another female friend describing her relationship with the dance instructor. She said how she liked the soft skin and pretty smells of a woman but, she still was more interested in men. She said how she had not slept with her, but did look forward to spending more time with her. She also mentioned how she felt she might have “settled” when she married me so young and she wonders if she missed something else. I confronted her about this email and she immediately broke off any connection with the dance instructor and seemed genuinely remorseful.
I have no doubt there has been no affairs since. I am so positive because she does not drive, has kids at home with me nighty and we track each other via phones. I am in IT after all. I also have admin access to her pc. I have known where she is, just about all the time for the past 28 years, not that I have tracked her for years regularly, but I had the ability at any time, and boy am I using that now.
About 2 years ago she got a full-time job working for her aunt. About a year after that she started to lose a lot of weight, she went from about 165 down to about 125, where she is currently. She looks great, too good if you ask me. Best she has looked in years, it is also having a positive effect on her health, which is great!
Well, this started to set off some red flags for me. Being in IT, I was able to check her phone and PC and found nothing to be worried about, so I just went about my business.
Recently with the Bomb Drop, I got even more suspicious, she never leaves her phone anymore. I did some more snooping and all I find are chats with old friends from NY about her current marital issues and health issues. I really suspected a EA with someone online, and there still might be, I just cannot find any proof to justify my concerns. I have no doubt there is no PA, as I see her daily and can track her. I am not sure if it even matters. From what I have been reading, now that we are separated, not much I can do to stop her if she decides to go that route. Maybe it will even let her see for herself what’s out there, so she can decide if this marriage is what she wants or not. But not even something I want to think about.
Current Situation –
We live together in the same house, separated. We live with our D13 and intentions are to stay here at least until the end of the school year. D24 and GD3 come over several times per week for dinner and to hang out.
Since my wife still has no license and she works directly across the street from my work, I give her rides to and from work each day. We start same time, end same time and I can literally see her office from my desk window. When we get home each night, we usually make Hello Fresh dinners and have meals together as a family with our D13. Something we have always done. In exchange for rides to/from work she has continued to do laundry / cook meals / clean the house. She has been VERY nice and friendly thru this whole ordeal. Like extra nice. I in turn have also tried to be nice, sometimes too nice. She wants to work thru this as amicable as possible. At my urging, we did go to the banks and have each other removed from our respective accounts. My money is now mine an hers is hers, fully separated. We did work out splitting he bills down the middle 50/50 and she says she does not want ant alimony or anything that is/was mine. She is very hard headed an independent, always has been in terms of favors/ handouts. She is Sicilian from Brooklyn after all. While this situation almost seems like it should make things easier, people being nice to each other and genuinely concerned for one another, it sure does make DETACH difficult. I am also lost in terms of GAL. WTF am I supposed to do when, what I want is the family life I have grown accustomed to. I enjoy the family time so very much.
So, she says that she has been depressed for years and a contributing factor has been my emotional distance a lack of emotional support. She is a terrible communicator and has said very little over the course of our marriage about anything being wrong. She just bottles it all up and BOOM. She has not blamed me specifically for anything. She does not provide details other than, I can see in your eyes sometimes when you look at me like you hate me. I do not recall ever looking at her that way, but that is not what matters, what matters is how she felt.
OK, back to me and what I have been up too. Since BD day, about 4 weeks ago. I have been a severe mess. Like emotional, something I have not been in years. I don’t know how to cope. I used to be an alpha male for sure. I had no idea until now that I am now a pile of mushy emotions that I cannot get a grip on. When did this happen an could it be part of the reason my wife no is no longer attracted to me? Hell yam, but when and how did it happen. Better yet, how the heck to do you break free and move forward? I know, GAL/Detach/Validate etc. …
How the frig do you GAL? I want to GAL badly, I really do. GAL to me is living with and enjoying my family. If that’s not what I wanted, then why was I in the marriage to begin with? In order to GAL properly and not fake it, don’t I have to do something I really enjoy? I have been trying to fake it, go to the gym or the mall or a sports event, but I’m not enjoying any of those things. I have no desire to go bar hopping or these types of things. The very thought of another relationship or another person right now is almost appalling. No desire whatsoever to date or get involved with anybody new right now. Sure, makes GAL seem unreachable. No desire to do anything but resolve these issues. Yep, trying to fix something that I cannot fix, isn’t that what we men do?
I keep having setbacks, I know the right thing to do is let go. It’s the only thing I can do, but it’s impossible it seems. I see her every day, we are nice to each other every day. Sure, makes it rough, but considering the alternative, would it really be better to be bitchy/angry and mean to each other right now, as we both walk our own roads to find ourselves? I have been working out, eating better and sleeping less. It does help me to feel better about myself, but I am not particularly hard mon myself either. I feel I live a good life and I am a good person and this divorce came out of nowhere, I’m still in shock.
Let me share with you my first mistake and her response. I sent this on Oct 11, about 3 weeks after BD. I now know it was a mistake, something I will have to lean from. However, this was before I found this forum and the DB book (which I just started yesterday). Let me know your thoughts, please.



> Dear XXX,
>
> I cannot imagine a life without you. I don't want to imagine a life without you. This experience has has shaken me to the core and forced me to realize a lot about myself and you. The pain I am feeling, being abandon, must be what you felt like for the past few years. It is beyond my comprehension in hindsight, that I ever put you through such agony. It is unforgivable, the emotional distance I put between us, and for that I am truly sorry.
> I want you know to know that I have already grown from this experience, in terms of reflection and realizing where I neglected you, your feelings, your needs, your desires and mostly my support in your life. I took for granted so many things. All your mannerisms, your dimples, your beautiful presence, your soft skin and your amazing smile. All the things you do for the family, house, me, kids, animals, everything. How ignorant I have been.
> I do not want a life without you. This experience has also opened my eyes to the amount of LOVE and respect I have for you. Your are an amazingly smart and strong person. I mean really strong! I suppose years of emotional push up's have that effect, as I may soon learn. I love you XXX, plain. I want to be with you forever and learn from mistakes made. I want you to be happy most of all. I want our family to stay together and grow from this. I want to be closer to all of you than I have been, It's want I truly want , physically and emotionally.
> I have been shocked from the revelation of what I should have known. I honestly had no idea it was this bad, how blind I have been. I see the signs in hindsight, I really do. How I wish I could change the past.
>
> Realizing a fraction of what I must have put you through, I really wish we could have worked on this together versus apart. I understand you have gone thru years of pain to reach your decision, a decision I have no choice but to respect. I see the strength it must have taken you to reach this decision and working on it again may feel like a setback to you. I really want the chance to work on our relationship together, with both of us having open minds and serious about this serious situation. Only if we give it a final chance will we really know, if both of us trying at the same time, can help us heal. I think our marriage and family is certainly worth trying, it's worth anything/everything to me. I Love you XXX, I love everything about you.
> I only wish you would lower your emotional wall and allow me to show you the deep love I have for you and not just say it on paper. I want to show you how much you mean to me, I want to show you my emotional availability and share in yours. I want to support you and encourage you. I want to be there for you like never. These are just words, let me show you. Let me show you the love you deserve.
> A life without you, XXX, XXX, XXX, XXX, is not a life I look forward to. That is a lot of loss. I have grown to love each one of them, they have accepted me as family from the start. They are my family, that includes YOU.
> To show our children, that despite some major issues, we can work through our separation and that love can prevail would be amazing, for all involved. It's worth some effort, I think.
> I am going to counseling. I feel I need to go to help me figure out my emotional hoarding. Not just with this terrible situation, but with most emotional things in my life. In the past my emotions seemed dead or just out of reach. This experience has put me in close contact to a lot of these long-lost emotions and they are quite overwhelming. I wish to share some with you and work thru most with assistance.
> I realize this email may be unwanted. It represents what you have decided you need to move on from. For that, I am truly sorry. I am not sorry for saying how much I love you and always will. I love you XXX.
> You deserve a happy life. You deserve someone who will invest in you, respect, support and understand you. You are an incredible person, all the way to your soul. I believe, I am that person, Let me show you.
> How did I miss so many opportunities to show you love and support. How did I let it float along for so long. I was blind and ignorant. I was a fool to let someone like you feel anything close to unloved or not appreciated in any way. What a fool I have been! I have always loved and appreciated you, I just never showed you. Not at all. What a fool! I see now, let me show you.
> In the past year, I have lost my job, my health and now, my wife and family. It's like the start to movie, one I do not want to be a part of. I have search my soul, I have hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is the driving force for real change. I see what I previously did not see. I have a long way to go, I would very much like to have you by my side, hand in hand, for the rest of my life. You deserve so much more than you were receiving. Let me show you. Let me back in, your emotional distance is not allowing me to show you. It does not have to mean we are no longer separated, it just means we both acknowledge this marriage is worth the effort of trying, together. I will move mountains for the chance to show you the love and support you deserve.
> I actually think this has made me love you even more, if that possible. You are so strong and strong minded. You really can do anything you set your mind to, damned anyone who say otherwise. This makes me want to be with you even more. I find myself staring at you, respecting and in awe of your resolution, But also sad, that the one man who currently loves you to the core is the only man unable to scale the emotional wall you have erected.
> When you agreed to marry me, it was because you believed I would make you feel cherished for the rest of your life. You were sure your heart would be safe with me, but I left you feeling neglected and insignificant. I left you cold. My selfishness robbed you of what was yours. That must have been awful for you, the very man you entrusted your heart to, left you cold .I am overcome with regrets for how I treated you.
>
> You trusted me with your heat and love and I treated them both without respect and kindness. That devastation led you to real change and tough decisions. It has recently done the same to me. I see what previously I did not. What a fool I was!
>
> I respect your decision, more than you know. That does not stop me from loving you. I can't stop the wheel you have set in motion. All I can do is show you the love and respect you deserve and hope you do not treat it lightly. I am truly sorry that I contributed to this marriage getting this point. I realize how awful this pain is and I am sicked that I caused you any pain whatsoever.
>
> I love you XXX, let me show you.
>
> Love XXX(H)

Dear XXX,

I appreciate what you’ve written. I know that you are hurt and I’m sorry for that. I want you to be happy and healthy!
I know you want to try and repair our marriage, but I am ready to move on. I have been in a very bad place mentally and emotionally for a very long time! I have to move on for myself! I have fought through a deep depression and am working my way out of it. I just can’t do this anymore. I care for you, I truly do, but I’m moving on.
I’m not sure you understand what I’ve been through, still going through! This was not easy for me, still very difficult! I want us to be on good terms and be there for each other. We are still family, my family is still your family, divorce isn’t going to change that.
If after you read this you don’t want to help me, do anything for me, I’ll understand.
I hope you do go and talk to someone, as will I. I still have a lot to work on for myself. I am here for you.

Love,

XXX(Wife)


Tue, Oct 2, 8:13 PM


to me


As of September 16, 2018, I will be moving out of our bedroom and into the spare room. As of this date, I consider us to be separated.

XXX (Wife)

Sorry for the above verbal vomit, my mind is racing. I typed that a few days ago while waiting to be approved to post here. Posting here looking for feedback.

So my take on all this nonsense, my wife is mentally Ill. To kill a whole family for personal gain is a hard trade. She must really be in a dark place to do this to her family.

I do have some follow up questions ill post later - like I have a 1 week vacation coming up first week of Nov. DO I tell her where I am going and what i'm doing? I have a few choices, just have not yet decided what to do with the week.

Nibs
Posted By: Cadet Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 06:15 PM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 06:23 PM
Correction - 2 Daughters D24 and D13 (not D23) as it states above.
Posted By: crofton Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 06:55 PM
Don't feel bad about making mistakes. I have been separated for 3 weeks and made a right mess of things during that time. Now I know I have to detach and let her find her own way. As far as GAL goes it's not easy, I keep myself busy but I am still in a lot of pain. I hope it gets easier in time.
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 07:00 PM
Thanks Crofton, good luck to you also. Sounds like we are both on the path to different futures than we anticipated.
Posted By: Grace21 Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 08:55 PM
NIBS - Sorry you find yourself here. Give yourself a break for making mistakes. We all have, but hopefully we learn from them and move on.

GAL is not easy in the beginning, but necessary. Take small steps. Think about what you enjoy, then just DO it. Meetup.org is great. They have meet ups for just anything you can think of. I do that, rediscovered my faith, and reached out to old friends that I let go by the wayside while trying to keep the marriage together. Since H moved out 3 weeks ago, I have had activities every day. They just didn't fall in my lap. I aggressively searched them out. You can do that too. Consistency is the key. GAL is NOT about seeking out a new relationship. We need to set ourselves up to be happy in our own right whether or not reconciliation happens.

This is a great place to learn, but also a great place to just journal your thoughts. Good luck on your journey.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 11:07 PM
1. No in house separation. Say: "WW, you want a divorce and moving out is part of that process. Goodbye". Then move on with your new life. That is pretty much the crux of your situation. I could stop writing there and that would be great for your detachment. You won't be able to move on while she is still there. She will mind$%^& the hell out of you and you will have a tough time detaching. You probably don't want to listen to this advice. Your call.

2. Your W has a lot of issues, she needs help there. You are not the guy to help her with that right now, so don't try to for the time being unless she asks.

3. Spooning another person on the couch is clearly a breach of your boundaries. It would be for me too. That's wrong and your wife lied and manipulated her way out of that.

4. Her thinking about other people is normal in this situation. Even the hurt LBS's think about a future with another person.

5. Her being super nice is scary, like she is hiding something. I don't know if she is or isn't, but usually the overly nice is a tactic. If she wants divorce, why do you still have family dinners? That's cake eating, tell her no more.

6. You have to go GAL. Your wife wants a divorce. Your life is changing one way or another. Do you want to be in control of it or are you OK just letting it all happen? What do you, or did you, like to do for fun? Go to the gym, join sports league, bowling leagues, go drinking with buddies. Find a ton to do and go and do it. Your kids are old, they don't need you around. Seriously, make a 180 on your personal life and go have a ton of fun! The silver lining here is that you can now do anything you'd like!

7. What did you do, behavior wise, to contribute to her wanting out? We all have bad tendencies, and healthy relationships don't make it to these boards. Figure out your contribution and get to work on being the best you that you can be.

8. Tell your W she needs to move out if she wants to be "separated". B/c you can't be separated if you're still living together. Seriously, you can't let her get to "separated" status while still living with you. She's going to be going GGW (girls gone wild) and you're going to feel like crap. Then you'll be pissed and you'll tell her that, and she'll respond that you're "separated" so she's free to do what she wants. F that. Gonna be a bumpy road, you need to decide what you'll live with and what you'll lay down the law on.

9. Do not tell your W what you are doing. Trust me, she is not going to be doing the same for you.

10. Do me a favor and really limit contact with her. Quit driving her around, quit doing things for her. Once you're divorced, you guys won't be a family and won't be doing these things. That's her choice, so let her live with the negatives of her choice. Right now, she wants you to feel the negatives, as evidenced by her response to your letter. But she picked some other negatives that she doesn't want to feel for herself. That's cake eating, don't let it happen.

Good luck!
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/21/18 11:36 PM
Thank you Ovrrnbw for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time and your input. These are the comments I was hoping for.
I have the master bedroom and have told her to move out. She has no intention of moving away from our daughter and that will be end of school year at best. She has no intentions of moving out, nor can I find any way to force her out.
Keep in mind, this is the mother of my children and the love of my life, until 1 month ago. While I know I Need to let go, I am having a real tough time getting tough, as i symphatise with her pain. Frekkn nice guy syndrome. Hah. I can see it as i reread it. Wow

So, can I force her out with no proof an affair? Or at all?
Would that be best for D13?
What if A starts after in house seperation? Does it matter, or part of the healing proces? Wtf
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 12:55 AM
Thank you all for your input. I am very grateful. Ovrrnbw, I have re-read your post several times, I fear you are spot on. Eeks
How can I make her move out? How can I make her move out and leave our D13 here with me? How do I make sure D13 does not turn on me, if we are kicking mom out?

It all feels way to regular to me, except the love. So easy to play along ... It's like every other part of her brain is normal except this one, sheer determination, blinders.

I'm about to start rambling, so gonna divert my attention for a bit. Thank you all again for taking the time to read about me and my plight, Your comments make me feel less isolated,
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 02:03 AM
Hi NIBS,


Sorry you find yourself in the so familiar situation.
Your letter was fine. She knows how you feel. No need to tell her any more.

Most people here take to long to do the right thing. You might be an exception.

Setting her free. Helping her move out. Let her feel what is like not to have you. The quicker YOU make things happen, the more chance of saving the R.

These are going to be the most counter-intuitive things you will ever do in your life.



Rule of thumb 28 years ~ 28 months of hard work on your part. And there are no guaranties.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 02:31 AM
It sounds like you did good intel to determine if OP is involved. Lets assume for now that there is not.


GIVE HER WHAT SHE IS ASKING FOR:



Originally Posted by NIBS
I hope you do go and talk to someone, as will I.
I want you to be happy and healthy!
Work on yourself. Always project CONFIDENCE and you are Happy. Learn to be seductive.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224

Quote
I know you want to try and repair our marriage, but I am ready to move on.
I just can’t do this anymore. I care for you, I truly do, but I’m moving on.
Set her free. Do not try and control her. No Pressure. Help her move on.

Quote
I still have a lot to work on for myself.
I have been in a very bad place mentally and emotionally for a very long time! I have to move on for myself!
I have fought through a deep depression and am working my way out of it.
I’m not sure you understand what I’ve been through, still going through!
This was not easy for me, still very difficult!
Give her space to work on HER. Take this time to work on YOU.



Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 02:09 PM
Thank you for the comments and taking the time to read my story.
I would like to kick her out, how can I do that if she has no intentions on moving out?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 02:11 PM
NIBS,

First, believe NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, she says. Both positive and negative So many come here and say "she says we are done, there is no hope to reconcile, and it is over, move on." and they are in deep despair that there is no hope.

There is hope. Even after D, and years apart, there is hope if you are still open to it. Go read a poster named ItHurts thread and you will see there is always hope.

I see you already questions GAL. You just have to do it. DBing isn't about questioning, it is getting on the horse and start exercising the DB muscles. GAL is impossible to do while just talking about doing it, you have to do it. Detachment is impossible to do if you just talk aout it, you have to start working on detaching. 180ing the same way.

You see, the WAS, especially WSs, will talk about a lot of things and do very little of them. They tend to be mostly talk, and little action. As the LBS your job is to let your actions do the talking! Don't talk about it, just do it! We fall into that trap all the time. "I am going to talk to her about this.....I am going to talk to her about that........" Words are not helpful to your sitch. Actions are. Words are method of trying to control. "It really hurt me that you moved out of the bedroom." So? She already knows that, why enunciate it? Actions are about controlling what you can control: YOU. GAL, 180s, detachment. Those are things YOU can do.

So concentrate on you. Read all of cadet's links. Learn sandi's rules. Employ them in your everyday life, and certainly in every interaction with your WAW.

Remember: Let her go to get her back.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 04:12 PM
You can't force her out. But you can tell her that you aren't separated and no one in their right mind would consider you "separated" when she is living there with you.

You are a dad. I'm not. You know what's best for your daughter. That is you being a steady, reliable, loving and honest father. Be that person and don't try to use her to fix your situation. Your daughter may "choose sides" temporarily. I did when my parents divorced and I chose the "wrong" side b/c one of my parents lied to me and manipulated me. Guess what? I found out. Kids will always find out what happened, so do the right thing.
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 05:29 PM
Such great input! I will take all this advice and apply it to my daily routines. I will get out and GAL somehow, even if I am not really enjoying it yet, hope I will with time.
In the state I am in, there is no separation agreement that gets filed with the courts. You simply have to separate for a year and at the end of the year when you file for Divorce, you have to prove you have been separated. You can prove this several ways, but mostly by having a certain "separation" date in writing (I suspect this is why she sent the email) and a witness to testify that we have been living separate. My oldest daughter or her mom would be this witness. Simply saying we do live in separate rooms and have had our finances separated. All of which is factually true. We are not fighting at all over money or the kids, we both agree 50/50 is best for kids and she is too stubborn and prideful to ask for any money from me, which is great.
She went to my first IC meeting at my urging. She did not want to go, but went with "my" best interests, she says. So my IC could hear her side at the beginning and hope it helps me move forward. The IC was terrible! 90 minutes of how do you feel etc. I was wide open and honest, so was the wife. The IC did 30 min with me , 30 mins with her and 30 mins with both. After, the wife told me the IC told her how strong of a woman she was, and asked her if my wife was afraid of me physically (I'm 6'2 about 220). For the record, I have been faithful my entire marriage and never even a hint of physical abuse to her or my kids, I'm just not built that way. Would NEVER harm female, period. Needless to say I have not gone back to that IC (plus it cost me $500).
So I need to move on somehow. Do I move out? I don't want to for several reasons, first being time with my daughter. Second, I demonstrate my ability afford 2 houses, do not want to pay for 2 houses. I'd be broke broke.
Third, why should she get a nice big house to play girls gone wild in?

Today I find myself moving from a sadness to anger. How dare she! blah blah blah - I'm mad!
Reflection tells me, "Hey dude, you are still making it all about her" stop and focus on yourself.

So about 2 weeks ago, we sat the kids down and told them what was going on. The kids cried at first, asked a few questions and seemed to take it well. The wife was stoic! I have never seen her so stone faced, emotionless in the face of her kids. Having known her for almost 30 years, I can seriously say, I have NEVER seen her be this way especially in front of the kids. Her the both daughters have a fabulous relationship, they are VERY tight. 3-4 calls a day tight. My relationship with them is also very good, we just don't chat as much as they do. During the convo, I did break down and cry, I tried not too, but damn that was rough. Almost immediately after the meeting, my oldest D24 was angry at the wife for giving up and not even attempting to reconcile or go to IC. The anger was short lived however, a brief convo between them and afterwards, they seems to be ok again. My oldest (D24) has been great thru this. She sends me texts almost daily to let me know she is thinking of me and supports me. The holidays are gonna be even rougher logistically. My youngest (D13), just got he interm report card and looks like she is dropping grades fast. She appears to be fine, but I suspect deeper issues are jut starting. I need to get her into IC. How does the attentive mom not see what impact this is having. Her MLC is crushing the family! I'm not even sure anymore if I know or like this new person she has become.
I do not think I like this anger stage. While it is nice to not be all hurt and sad, I want to throat punch someone and that's not good for anyone.

In the past month or so, she has not gone out and done anything for herself. Being in the same house, I see her daily/nightly. She does chores / homework / TV with the D13 and then just goes to bed at like 8PM. Like nothing is different. She used to go to bed very early all the time. She tired at end of work day due to her illness's, she says.
Again, my thinking is all about her, HELP me HELP me (Jerry Maguire lol).

Ugh
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 05:31 PM

Setting her free. Helping her move out. Let her feel what is like not to have you. The quicker YOU make things happen, the more chance of saving the R.

These are going to be the most counter-intuitive things you will ever do in your life.

Thanks Ready! So right! I just need to action this!
Posted By: Yorkie Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 05:59 PM
NIBS

I can sense how much you are hurting BUT I can also sense how much your W is confused and hurting. She cannot differentiate what it is that is causing her to hurt so much, so it is easiest to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think you need to respect the position she currently thinks she is in because getting angry and trying to show her that she is wrong will backfire.

Don't take to heart anything that she says but don't try to prove to her that she is speaking nonsense. My coach said to me that when I try to point out that my Hs words were illogical, it only served to humiliate him. Nobody went back to a R because they felt humiliated.

Read the Lighthouse story. If anyone ever needed to be a lighthouse it is you at the moment.
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/22/18 06:25 PM
Awesome! Thanks Yorkie, I had not yet read The Lighthouse. Most applicable and the way my brain initially wanted to go.

In case any have not read it:
Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...


be the lighthouse....
Posted By: crofton Re: 28 Years! - 10/23/18 08:32 AM
Thanks for posting this, that is good to know.
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/23/18 10:42 PM
Quick update while fresh -
Get a text from W today, she says D13 got a ride home from school with a friend vs the family friend we have arranged daily. Didn't ask or tell anyone. When we got home, we confronted D13 as unified parents about the situation. She says her friend invited her last minute and she accepted and just thought she would be home shortly and nobody be the wiser. Wrong. W is angry. Starts diggin into her why she did that, safety issue etc. D13 says her friend is depressed and she wanted to be there for her friend as her parents hit her. She is the light to her friends darkness she says. W digs deeper, how is D13 feeling, anything she wants to talk about? D13 says ya, *she crying* You guys getting a divorce is not what I want, I want you two to stay together. I feel like the family is being torn apart. W says, are you angry with me? D13 says, no. W asks if she will talk with the guidance counselor if she sets it up? D13 says no, I don't like her.
W and I agree, time to set up D13 with IC.
I left to drop off dry cleaning, all the while wondering just how dark of a place W must be in, to see her D13 going thru this, and still push forward. May be worse than I was thinking. I can handle my pain, but this is another layer. As the father, to see my D in pain like that, caused by us ... not good. Not good at all.
Anger sets in - How could she! So i came here to vent vs to her face.
Thanks for reading
Posted By: Grace21 Re: 28 Years! - 10/24/18 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by NIBS
I can handle my pain, but this is another layer. As the father, to see my D in pain like that, caused by us ... not good. Not good at all.


My H said on more than one occasion that the kids are in college now, they will be fine. I know my kids, and knew how hard even a trial separation would be on them. As I told them, without H, I saw that I was correct. I believe H wants to convince himself they will be fine so he doesn't have to face the guilt. Our MC, whom I see occasionally as my IC, said I was very wise to recognize that D if also hard on adult children. Not just the ones still at home.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: 28 Years! - 10/24/18 01:59 AM


Read this post:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2818671#Post2818671
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/28/18 07:30 PM
Wow, went away for the weekend and got bumped to page 7. Busy busy board.
Quick update -
Wife is still being very nice/cordial. We don't talk about R, therefore almost everything seems "normal".
I went away for GAL this weekend, she texted a few times, be safe, have fun etc.
I went digging for A proof, still cannot find any. She has been honest with me every time I get suspicious. Example - I woke up at 2AM the other night, could not fall back asleep. Hopped on FB and happened to notice she was on messenger about an hour earlier. Odd at 1 AM. The next day during idle chit chat, I asked how she slept in the spare room, She said, I woke up about 1AM with back killing me, could sleep so I hopped on my phone for a bit and chatted with some friends till I was tired enough to go back to sleep.
We hit Costco and a few other places, all idle chit chat and some jokes.
She just seems so unfazed by all this. Like this in house separation is just part of normal everyday life.
She is very strong willed and stubborn. Not sure she would even say something if she had/had a change of thoughts.

I'm doing ok, some days better than others, I am trying like hell to GAL, even if it's going out and walking the mall. Just trying to get away from the house. Songs and movies about love drive me into thought mode, funny how every song is about me and her right now. Like when you buy a new car and suddenly see them everywhere on the road, Hard to get out of "love"&"heartbreak" mode.

Need some advice here - The first week of Nov I took a week off work. Have not told her. I have several options for GAL that week, I have a buddy who wants me to go tour KY Bourbon distilleries with him. I have a brother asking me to come stay with him (possible gold panning trip). While I have not decided what exactly I am going to do (may just do something myself also), what should I tell the W? I'll be gone all week, which is rare for me. I want to use this opportunity to explore a bit of myself but to also make her miss my daily presence. Keep in mind I have 2 daughters D24 and D13 who will both be texting me and wondering where I am. Anything said to them will certainly be relayed to W.
Also, while trying to detach more, I seem to be cold. She actually said to me the other day, you sure have been cold the past few days, you ok? I just said yeppers, sure am, did not mean to be cold. I am trying to balance being the lighthouse for her and detach at the same time. When I GAL, it's not an issue as there is limited communication and not face to face. But because we still live together, there is still a lot of face to face time. I have tried treating her like a sister, nice but firm. Did not like the way it made me feel. I have tried pretending we are on a first date, be kind, validate etc.. but first dates require a lot of engagement and probing, just to keep the date going. I fear this is a step back from detaching, but want to be that lighthouse none the less. I also fear pulling away too much would invite an A into the picture to give her that feeling she must be craving, as it's been over a month without any real emotional connections between us or her and anyone, She has pulled away from her family emotionally also. She used to talk to her mom every day, several times a day. Recently they have very short convos, if at all.

OK - brain purge over for now. Thoughts / advice anyone?

PS - While at the beach, my buddy decided now that I am separated, it would be a good time to fulfill his wife's fantasy of having 2 men at once. They invited me into their bedroom Friday night after some drinks. I declined. Wondering if I should have ... Her breakfast was awesome though!


BD date - 9/16/18
Married 28 years
D24 - D13 - GD3
47 Years old
Posted By: NIBS Re: 28 Years! - 10/28/18 08:03 PM
PSS - W was diagnosed with Menopause by OBGYN after hormone panel tests, just last week. Yay - something new to google and learn about.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: 28 Years! - 10/29/18 02:20 AM
As far as the W, don't tell her what you're doing other than you'll be away for a few days. If you guys were divorced, like she says she wants, would you tell her everything you do and everywhere you go? So let her wonder, because her not getting to know about you is a consequence of her decision.

And this trip should be a trip for you to do something you want to do. If you have the attitude of "I want to make her miss me" then that attitude is going to come through. So recheck your agenda there

I'd stop looking at what she's doing on social media, and stop bringing it up. She's going to figure out that you're stalking her and it's going to make you look crazy. So go do something else.

Detaching doesn't need to be cold. You should be upbeat around her, but don't go overboard. Dress well, put on cologne, and put your best foot forward. When she speaks, respond casually and warm (if you normally treat people warmly). But don't "over-engage". Keep it brief. You pulling away does not invite an affair. If she is going to do that she is going to do that and she cannot blame her actions on you. She's an adult.

Quote
PS - While at the beach, my buddy decided now that I am separated, it would be a good time to fulfill his wife's fantasy of having 2 men at once. They invited me into their bedroom Friday night after some drinks. I declined. Wondering if I should have ... Her breakfast was awesome though!


Please remember that you are married. If you want your wife to honor her vows you should honor yours. Remember that whole "lighthouse" thing you posted about?
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: 28 Years! - 10/29/18 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by NIBS
PSS - W was diagnosed with Menopause by OBGYN after hormone panel tests, just last week. Yay - something new to google and learn about.


Could be a big contributing factor. Some women are largely unaffected by this change-of-life while others can come to view things dramatically differently. My ex went through menopause during BD and I'm convinced it was a factor, maybe even THE factor. There's nothing you can do other than DB- get out and GAL while giving her time and space. For the longest time I told people here that my ex permanently changed after menopause and was no longer the same person. Just in the last 6 months she's suddenly started showing signs of her old self though.
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