Link to old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2810304&page=1Okay, new thread.
I couldn't take it anymore. I sent her a text. Asked if she was safe. Nothing more nothing less.
She did answer that she was safe and had taken over a patient.
I know... not very good NC or going dark. However the worry was getting to me.
Probably shouldn't have done that. What do you think she was doing, out all night?
I have no proof of a PA or EA. Like I said I only asked if she was safe, nothing more. She answered with more than a yes. I was happy she answered with more than a yes.
She does work as a CNA doing home care. We attended a funeral for one patient.
Last text messages were exchanged 2 weeks ago. Conversation as long or longer.
If she is doing more than working... IDK and IDK what I would really do. I'd like to say I would forgive her and try to work on us. As far as I know my trip is still undisclosed. All in God's hands.
Okay, I have successfully made the trip to my daughters. Long trip by myself. Two cups of coffee and two bottles of water. Couple of stops just to stretch my legs. All in all not a bad trip.
Maybe listening to Men are From Mars was a bad idea. W didn't go with me either. However all I can think of during that time was her. A scratchy copy of the audio book probably doesn't help. As much as I would like to work on reconciliation and US, the W isn't at that point yet. I know I probably aren't either. I still have lots of work to do. I have a goal and that is to be 2.0 because me 1.0 was part of the reason we got here.
So been here for 24 hours and have spent the day with the D and granddaughters. Fed the baby, pictures and more fun stuff. Good grandpa time.
Pictures to family. More later. This doesn't feel like GAL. Mostly because I still want the MR to work.
To share pictures with the W or not... GAL... don't be a jerk doing so... pictures of our grandkids and daughter. Just not pictures of them with us.
I don't want to seem to be rubbing her face in it either. I am not fond of this situation.
Enjoy the time with the kids and grandkids! It sounds like a long trip so I imagine you don't get to spend that much time with them. Banish W from your thoughts for a day, and relish the time with loved ones!
Home again. Nearly 600 miles one way in a 4 cylinder... poor little engine that did. Thumbs up to my little inherited car.
So I spent the time with my D and granddaughters. D boyfriend too. Not a bad guy. Actually a decent endorsement from a Dad.
Got my tattoo done. So now I can add Tattoo Model to my resume. I really won't but I technically could. I got a S T Command Delta with a circle crossing the tips. Looks really nice. Now to get through the initial care to a fully healed condition. W saw it... her reaction was close to what I expected. Not sure what the words are. Doesn't matter. I got the ink for me, my design choice and the fact it threw her a little... yeah nice little bonus. So I am glad I accepted the advice given about avoiding tying it to her too much or obviously.
D sent W a text w/o my knowledge asking her Mother why she didn't come with. Yes, D knows the sitch, has gone through one herself and wants the best for me. D has said that she thought we would work it out but has had a more pragmatic approach. I, on the other hand, if you have been reading my posts you know I am going to go to the mat fighting this. I got to be able to look in the mirror.
Stopped on my way home and visited long time family friends. They grew up with my Dad. Our families went camping together for years. Got to go fishing on the private lake in their little community and even caught a couple of large mouth for dinner. Good visit. I probably needed that more than I realized.
So when the W got home things were tense. She didn't believe me when I answered her about going by myself... and driving too. Not really her concern but I saw no need to withhold info. Yes I took a little pleasure in her discomfort and suspicion. Yeah... I know bad form. Still good to know that had an effect.
Of course I got pictures with the grandkids and D. Even attended Church in Canada. The nearest one was 60 miles one way. The border guard going into Canada looked rather like you're kidding about my reason to visit.
All in all the trip was worth it. Way too much time to think about the MR, the W, etc. The audio book was good idea. Maybe wrong title and was very scratchy. Oh well. Yes I still would like the trip to have been us. Still glad I went solo.
Thanks for the support from everyone here.
Attended church last night. I was able to show my MiL a picture of her youngest great granddaughter. She was very happy about that. However the weather had changed and it was about 15 degrees colder after church than before. She still doesn't deal with cold too well.
W and BiL attended too, different location. Only thing I am making of that is she still wants to have her faith, practice the parts she wants. Pretty sure doesn't work that way. I am viewing it as a tiny positive. A sign of second thoughts? Without more informstion... no.
In the meanwhile, continued effort on Me 2.0 and if that leads to Us 2.0 great. I'd like to get there. Faster than it will happen but that isn't under my control.
God, give me the patience to do this and thank You for the support I find here.
T, she is still too much into your head.
How is GAL going? What are your plans for tonight? This weekend?
Detach. Detach. Detach.
Yeah, I know she is. More than half our lives and I want/expected all the rest of our lives.
As for this weekend, Saturday night game session with friends. Although she might view it as more of the same. My hobby is RPGs. Social story telling with friends. Yeah, not cheap , but name a hobby that isn't cheap and time consuming and I will tell you it isn't a hobby.
Church on Sunday. Chores. Divorce paperwork... although her Lawyer isn't responding to my lawyer so what is going on is anybodies guess.
$$$ is tight so activities will be kept low expense.
Tonight and tomorrow... Reading DB, sorting stuff...
Depending on my sister, helping her get the dog his shots. Having to literally dog pile the dog to do this... he is not trained.
That is my life. Doing the GAL... not an exciting one.
So while I was doing last night, supper, dishes, etc. I considered my feelings for the W. What if she gets to the point where she reconsiders and wants back in. Yet at that point I feel that no, I made changes, made me better and you weren't willing to entertain the idea much less give me the chance. Tell her I'm done.
Is this good? Is this detaching the right way? Because it feels a little more dead inside. I do want a MR 2.0 with her... I think... am I in a phase or missing something?
Yeah she is still in my head and heart. Now I am wondering why. Is this seeking the familiar or is it deeper than that?
Dog pile the dog on Tuesday. Got a med to calm him a bit. Not enough. I don't care what she says. A full blood chow isn't a service dog. Protect/guard is hardwired into them.
Not what I expected to have to do with my life. Take care of my younger sister. Arrrgh. Mom... you were right. I want nothing to do with her, lone sibling... don't care.
W knows how I feel about my sister. She doesn't like my attitude. HOWEVER she doesn't like my sister either.
Heck, W has sisters she doesn't like or get along with.
W isn't working this weekend. Doesn't change what I am planning or having to do.
Youngest grandkid turned 4 months today. new pictures from D. Big time happy with that and having made the trip.
Those feelings are part of the process T. My IC says that being able to express what you are feeling comes after you have internally processed them. So it seems you are getting into Turbine 2.0 whether you find MR 2.0 or not. Amoafwl. Her loss.
Stay strong T
Maybe... but to be perfectly honest I don't like my sister and haven't for a very long time. Even allowing for the grief you get from and give your sibling(s). I can go a long time without missing her.
Apparently W is working today or tonight or something... She wants to proceed with the D. Fine. I would rather we try to fix it but we aren't there yet. However that requires getting the house ready, cleaned, repairs done or we accept getting a lower price. Things that require communication and joint effort. There is way too much stuff for me to sort through that isn't mine and I don't want to stir up anything by "messing with her stuff". Its petty and really gains me nothing long or short term.
Do I have some issues with what my Mom setup for after their deaths? Yeah it seems that way. Part of it is the lawyer. Really didn't seem to be working for me. Should have fired them long before I did. On the other hand, my maternal uncle took his business elsewhere now. Lawyers... grrrr...
When W left I had to move my car. I waited until she said please. Petty? or wanting some civility and respect? I want to encourage the later two between us. Maybe it will lead to a positive. She had a warning light on the dash board too. I helped her. Check a fluid level. However she questioned whether I had tightened the cover down enough. Trust... sad it isn't there for something that little. Lots of work to do if there is ever to be a MR 2.0
When she pulled off the driveway she did toss a wave at me. (yes all five fingers were used) Probably nothing more than an autopilot response. I had agreed with her about why the D is happening. Validation? IDK.
All a hot mess.
Amoafwl .... ???
Never mind...
Amoafwl .... ???
A man only a fool would leave
Is it good to be where you don't care if the D or MR wins?
Forever was supposed to be forever.....
Feeling a lot in common with a song by Patsy Cline and a H.G. Wells novel.
I'm so lonely and the invisible man.
W was gone all day Saturday and got back around 10:00PM Sunday. No explanation... nothing. Didn't ask either. When she left she said something about an appointment at 9 on Saturday AM. I know she saw a friend for lunch because she posted pictures of my W and herself. W looks great, but I can see signs of age. I should notice because I am her H. Although I am getting to the point where kicking her out sounds pretty good and tell her to plan on her maiden name again. Why should she keep her married name?
Unless this is some sort of sick test...
Talked to my SiL after church. I was showing her newest pictures of the baby. Very vague answers to her questions. Such as what wrong with her (W) etc... Apparently they used to talk much more than now. Beats me. Her family seems to not be as upset with me as she is. Youngest SiL being the exception.
Saturday game session with friends was okay. Not feeling that right now either. Should be part of GAL but not seems life should involve W. I hope this is just a bottom on this roller coaster.
So... is she (W) still too much in my head?
Oh yeah. Thoughts on the phone coaching.
Any idea if there has been an instance of both parties involved in a D actually being on this site at the same time? Idle curiosity...
In regards to both parties being here....I doubt it. The ones here are thinking straight, the ones that made us come here think there is nothing wrong with them and don't need guidance.
and yes W is still too much in your head.
My WW too left Sat AM and did not come back until Sun PM...obviously with OM in my case though. [censored] but I can't dwell on it...it will kill me if I do. I stay busy, make sure S is happy and cared for and work on my life, not what our life will be when she comes home....F that!
Today is definitely a low day on the roller coaster. Don't want to go home. Don't want a lot of things right now.
Tomorrows big activity.... dog pile my sister's dog. Full blood Chow, about 85 lbs,so he can get his shots. Muzzled and drugged. Last time it took 4 adults to hold him still enough for the shots and blood draw. Yipee kai yea (insert Bruce Willis quote). So yeah... not thrilled about that either.
Could I use some good news or a positive right now. Yes. Will I get it? God only knows. I hope so.
Positive... got a phone call from long time friend. He expects to be in the area in December. There was a discussion about fish tacos. His son, who is his reason to visit, flat out won't do it. So we are making plans to meet up, have a good time and eat some fish tacos.
Still have to dog pile today... grrrr
Dog pile went much better than last time. Could be any number of things as too why. Drugged the dog. Dog a year older, different Vet... don't know, don't care, don't like dealing with sister or her critter.
Keeping up and expanding the exercise routine. Still not hitting the gym. Still has a meat market feel in my head. Carry over from 80's movies I guess. Anyway I don't want to be distracted. Yes it could happen. No I don't want it to. If it is meant to not be between W and me and having a MR 2.0 then I may consider it. Not now.
Speaking of exercise, I am following a few channels on YouTube. Use body weight or just a few dumb bells. They stress working in a manner that gets results but with out a greater risk of injury. At 55 I know gains are not as easy to get. More effort required. I'm fine with that. This approach seems to be sensible because why run the risk of injury in the quest for self improvement. Thoughts?
W is so in my head. I am trying to evict her but my heart isn't in it. D seems to be proceeding but I am not sure because nothing from her lawyer to requests from my lawyer.
I am still attending Church. What is different this time than before in the MR 1.0? Maybe this time I am ready. I know I am calmer overall. Maybe that and exercise. Not having to deal with my sister as much doesn't hurt either.
Planning on time with younger D and S. So this afternoon work on clearing more stuff at home. Overwhelming task. Has to be done though.
Heard W taking shower this morning... part of why hard to evict her... maybe never again... maybe will...
She is going to Church still. That's a positive that is nothing more than what it is. I did pray that W does that. How it goes from there is in God's hands.
I don't like the current sitch. I am not talking to her and am giving her as much room as I can considering still in the same house. Do I encourage her moving out? Neither of us can afford that. It would show something different... She did see me exercising. I had left the door open. Was it intentional... IDK.
Random thoughts. Feeling translucent. Probably... no, I am... overthinking this.
Keeping up and expanding the exercise routine. Still not hitting the gym. Still has a meat market feel in my head.
Any gym or are you talking about one in particular? You've probably seen I'm a big proponent of Crossfit, I promise that you'll be working your butt off so much in there that you won't have time to think about anything but getting through the workout! About 2 months ago I also joined Anytime Fitness so I could get an upper body workout in when I'm just too sore or tired from Crossfit. I absolutely love being a member at both, one is awesome for cardio and the other for strength. AF is very casual and laid back, definitely does not have a "meat market" feel to it. You have a fob that lets you in the door and you are free to come and go at any time of the day or night.
Speaking of exercise, I am following a few channels on YouTube. Use body weight or just a few dumb bells. They stress working in a manner that gets results but with out a greater risk of injury. At 55 I know gains are not as easy to get. More effort required. I'm fine with that. This approach seems to be sensible because why run the risk of injury in the quest for self improvement. Thoughts?
I'm 57 and really REALLY push myself. 2 years ago when I joined Crossfit I couldn't even do a handstand, now I can do not just a handstand but handstand pushups. I could do maybe 2 pullups, now I can do 15 strict unbroken pullups (and more kipping) and can even do bar and ring muscleups. My deadlift max was less than 200 and is now 360. I couldn't even do 1 ring dip and can now do 20+ unbroken. I could go on and on but my point is I've seen MASSIVE gains in the last 2 years. And this was AFTER 5 years straight of conventional weight training! I weigh less, lift more, look bigger and more cut, can do gymnastics moves that 2 years ago seemed impossible. So do I think we need to be conservative in how we work out at our age? No I do not. I think that's horseshit. Am I constantly dealing with injuries from pushing myself so hard? No. In fact a lot of the joint pain I suffered with 2 years ago is gone or greatly diminished now. I deal with soreness and aches and pains, but that's going to be a byproduct of a rigorous routine regardless of age.
If you want to see gains in strength, flexibility and appearance then push yourself and push yourself hard. 55 is young! I don't waltz around with my shirt off but sometimes it's hot in the xfit gym (no A/C) and I take my shirt off to cool off a little. I have guys in their 30's come up and tell me they wish they had my physique. I am NOT some kind of genetic freak, I'm just an average guy! If I can do this anyone can. Really that's my spiel about DB'ing to anyone here that listens- I am not anyone special. If I can get through all this misery and emerge a better person for it, then anyone here can.
W is so in my head. I am trying to evict her but my heart isn't in it.
My GF has been a pain in the rear lately. I was out of town on business and ex was watching my dog. I went by to pick him up and she invited me to dinner with S and D. It was so nice, great conversation and just very pleasant. I found myself missing having that level of maturity around (my GF is young and greatly lacking in that department). And it's been what, like 7 years since BD for me. I don't think they ever really get out of your head. You move on but they always occupy some amount of space up there in the ol' grey matter! DB'ing isn't really about removing them from your head, but rather it's about acceptance. Acceptance that you can't control things, and that you WILL be good no matter what happens.
Wow was this evening dark. Felt about as low as the week of the BD. even the following week or two. No idea why for certain. It was that bad though.
I did spend the night at the younger D and S place. W was working so why not? Time to see the grandsons. W doesn't seem to care about them. Sad that is because they did nothing to her. She and the younger D butt heads all the time. Something I thought would pass with time. My mother and sister did while we were kids so I thought they would grow out of it like my sister did with our mom. Didn't go that way.
Maybe part of what kicked the dive was not having eaten since breakfast or had enough to drink. Had supper with glass of water. Attended church. Had a talk with old Navy buddy. Definitely feeling not as down.
Feel like I realized how long ago I fell off the Pharaoh's barge and that I am still in denial. Yes bad pun but this stops me from removing my remaining hair in handfuls. I know GAL, do stuff to make me change from ver 1.0 to ver 2.0 for me, not her. Except I feel hollowed out inside thinking about a future without the W.
My parents were married 52 years. Mom passed 23 months before Dad. Her parents were married about 45 years. Grandpa died from cancer at 63. He was going to retire and work part time in a hardware store. Never happened. I never saw how the cancer and treatments changed him either. I was gone from home, doing work ups for deployment for a westpac. He died two days before we were pulling in. I didn't get to go to the funeral. Mom took pictures of him in his casket in case I wanted to see. Never did. So unlike my sister and cousins, my memories of him are untarnished so to speak.
I know my Dad had health issues, bad heart, dyalisys three times a week, living with my sister and her dog in his house and she was bossy. Yeah, part of me thinks she contributed to his lack of wanting to continue living. But 52 years... and to last almost another 2 years. I think he was doing it for me more than my sister. He finally gave up. I waited with him the night he died. I remember that night too. Really strong thunderstorms rolled through with a little lull right about the time he finally let go for good.
I want the 52 years or more with her. Can I even tell or show her? Right now... no. Maybe never... God knows that thought hurts so much.
Am I mad or angry with God? No. He brought us together. Will He keep us together? I pray that is the case. I also pray that what I desire as the outcome is in line with His plan. You know... What God has joined together... I am trying to learn whatever lesson I am supposed to. Maybe to let go. Give up fear. Stop trying to control everything.
So sorry to hear about your dark day Turbine. This is a roller coaster ride. My parents were taken from me by cancer as well. My dad was 66 when he passed from pancreatic cancer and my mom, a nurse who had retired the year before, cared for him until he took his last breath in our family home. Cancer took my mom 12 years later in May 2017. I don’t think a day went by that she didn’t miss him terribly. That is the kind of marriage I wanted and what I thought I would have with my H. Raising us kids challenged them, for sure, as kids do, but they always, always worked through their differences and by the time we all left home, they were not only husband and wife but also the very best of friends. My H doesn’t understand that kind of commitment or the kind of love it produces. To me, it is everything. Anyway... not trying to hijack your thread. Just wanted to send you some words of encouragement and to let you know that you are not alone in your struggles. Try not to think too much and focus on the present as much as possible. I find it helpful to think that yesterday and tomorrow don’t actually exist except in our minds and we LBS’s minds can work overtime. Hang in there... it will get better. (((HUGS)))
Thanks for the ((hug)). I really need one about now. Hugs are appreciated. Hugs from my kids, grandkids or in-laws are welcome. If I hug my Mother in law I almost put her in a sleeper hold. She is really short. Poor substitute for hugs from W of course.
Doing much better this morning. Not sure how much of that was related to blood sugar level.
My activities away from home and part of the GAL have been not doing it for me. Trying again today and mixed results. I have to go shopping later to get stuff for the week.
Tuesday the minister wants to visit me at home. Been a long time since that had occurred. Making sure not anything to do with W. Wanting to avoid any resemblance to pressure or ganging up on her. Her actions since leaving the church and dropping the D on me are between her, God and the Church.
I so want her to be more receptive to trying to resolve the MR. Got to come from her though and not sure it will ever. *broken heart*
This is the time we should be working on us as a couple. I know I messed up and didn't. Wasn't exactly getting that feeling from her either though. I pray not to late to reach a solution.
Where to start... because I didn't see this coming. Although to be honest I'm not surprised entirely either.
So WOW... I got home from my Sunday afternoon game session. Hanging out with like minded people for out table top roleplaying game. My son was running the game. I have played with everyone at the table so it was good social time. Outside my son and his GF my sitch is discrete. I digress.
I had stopped to get a few groceries to cover for the week. Milk, bread, soup, chips, yogurt, etc. I get home and my W is home. I hadn't expected her until the evening. Late evening, like crawling into bed late. FYI I am a morning person and bed time is 2200 on average. Wasn't the case. No problem.
Brought the groceries in, put them away, rest of the stuff I brought with me for the afternoon. Took the garbage out since pick up is in the morning. All the chore type stuff.
So while I am drying the dishes that she is washing. Unasked, and not expecting anything for doing it because leaving dishes in the rack seems to be okay otherwise. She starts a conversation about her car. That I had paid off because we had said our tax return would go to that. Well student loans squelched that and I still payed it. Anyway it seems her car needs a repair that would run about $1800. FYI her car is a Mercedes 350 GLK. Way more than what we should have been looking at but, hey, she wouldn't accept anything else, except a Lexus maybe.
She asked me if I would help her with the cost because she doesn't have the money to repair it. After lying about needing my key to the car, not returning it and then saying she lost it. Seriously considering telling her tough. I don't want to be a jerk or anything but really? After dropping the D on me, saying no chance to get back together, move on , find someone else to date, etc.
Now I did ask some questions. Didn't say one way or the other whether I would help her or not. I see no reason to help her other than postponing repairs could lead to a bigger bill later. I don't want to use this as a bargaining chip or anything like that. That would be a dumb(d***) move.
Really could use some input here everyone. Jerk or hero? Test or scam? Because I really hate where this is right now. I know it is late on the weekend but this is sort of an outside the box emergency (at least to me).
Thanks in advance for input. I hope there is a lot of if because I don't have the answer that I am comfortable with.
Hey T,
Not too familiar with your sitch but I can pass along advice I’ve been given. Do you share ownership of the car? Or is it all hers? In other words, what financial liability would you incur if the repairs weren’t done and the car exploded? That, I think, should be the issue that guides your decision.
She wants D, meaning everything that goes with it, such as not being able to bum 2 grand from her roommate. But there may be legal issues depending on your sitch so consider those also.
Mainly, though, when you suggest that this is a choice between jerk or hero, in either case it sounds like you have expectations attached. Should I take a tough stance, will that show her? Or, should I be nice, will that make her like me? In either case the decision is based on how you think she would respond, how it makes you look, how it might improve or worsen your sitch...I struggle with this like crazy so I’m not saying it’s easy.
But I think the advice from the vets would be, what do YOU want? And if you can’t have THAT (her, a reconciled M, etc.) then what ELSE do you want? What is in YOUR best interest? Would recent repair costs be factored into the terms of the D? I doubt it. So you would likely lose money and gain nothing.
You can’t “nice” her back but you CAN show yourself your own power and worth.
My two cents as a non-expert. Consume in moderation.
Well, the car is in her name as far as the state is concerned. Sent an email to my lawyer for the D to at least get this on record.
Yeah... expectations... I am struggling with that portion of this. Do I have any? TBH I have to say yeah. However I don't know how to express them. I did consider the pros and cons here. W already has a poor opinion of me since she filed for a D. I don't want to "nice" her back. That would be temporary and false. No strings attached, no conditions, nothing. No help either. Of course if she want to try and force me in court that changes the game.
I mean yeah, by not helping her I do "show" her some of the consequences of this course she wants. I didn't want it though. I do have to protect my interests and myself too. Maybe the only expectation would be to see the paperwork from the dealer or mechanic for the repair. Not even sure I would trust that. Or getting a working key for myself. Not worth the headache lately.
Well, I slept on it and let it simmer in my head until now. I was hoping for some brilliant thought to have reached me in the process. Nope.
I have been playing a few scenarios in my head. I do that a lot. Conversations I would like to have with her. Even before the BD. Usually falls apart on my side after word two or three. Whatever. You would think after 31 years I would be better at talking to her. I digress.
So she wants me to pony up for a repair on her car. My name isn't on the title (I think) and definitely not on the registration with the state. So my current thought is I won't help her with this bill (pending input from lawyer). She has said she doesn't want me. So this request seems to say she only wants my financial abilities and resources. Our auto insurance allows us to drive either vehicle but beyond that ...
So far the conversation plays out this way for the short version:
No, I am sorry I can't help you.
The longer version adds more:
No, I can't help you. That money has been spent on the lawyer because you are walking away from US instead of trying one more time. You have my attention. I want nothing more than for you to be happy, US to be happy. I admit I am not perfect and there is more I can do. I am working on that. I know my job is not at 40 hours a week. I can only do my very best there to help the company. I have asked you what changes you would like to see in me. When you reply that I know what changes and then don't like what I do and still say nothing... what am I supposed to do.
I hadn't gone to church in a long time. When I would try to explain why or what I had a problem with you told me they wouldn't do that or words to that effect. So after telling me you want a divorce I told you I would make changes, I would be different. I am working on returning to church. So you got angry that I did that. You took actions to get yourself removed from the church. The church is and has been so important to you ever since I met you.
I said somethings I regret the moment I said them. You said somethings that hurt too. I am so very sorry that I did say them. I wish I could take them back but like everything in the past it is done and unchanging. Not just words. Actions.
I would like to spend the rest of my life with you. You don't want to spend it with me. Every time I see you there are a tidal wave of emotions and memories that hit me. All of them, good and bad. I cherish the good ones and those stay but the bad ones I regret and they still hurt me. It seems you have only the bad ones and are holding them all against me. I don't blame you. I want to tell you I understand and I forgive you. I doubt you would believe me though. I wish I could take away your hurt.
I don't have an answer as to why going back to church now is happening. Maybe before wasn't the time. You asked me for so long and I didn't listen. There has been so much wrong and demanding in our lives that we didn't take the time to remember the "OUR" part in that.
You weren't happy when we went to the Philippines for our 30th. That was a very expensive trip. I am glad we did though. Yet you seem to be mad I didn't want to go before. I did. I didn't feel we could afford it though. Not with the five of us, and all the other expenses.
End of thought
Yeah, so much to say and right now, while I want to, she doesn't. I can't imagine getting through all of that with her and not getting an angry outburst. So where do I, where do we go from here.
I have a similar dilemma in my situation. Part of me wants to help with bills but she filed for D and I have to live separately so I am only willing to pay half towards mortgage and loans but nothing else. I feel bad about it but at the end of the day it was her choice and I have to look at post D.
I would stick with the short version of your conversation as don't think the long version is going to get you anywhere.
Ughhhh.... more marital debt. lawyer said more than likely I am on the hook for some of it. (car repair). Well I guess that means she is on the hook for my Gall Bladder surgery. (mostly covered and done already)
Steve85, I have been reading your threads from post #1. I apologize to you. It seems much of the LBS stuff I am worried about or going though is territory you trail blazed already. Not only did you get good advice I can see enough similarities between us that your input would be solid. Voracious reader. A few other things as well.
Thanks to everyone reading and especially those commenting. Relationship skills aren't my strong suit. I prefer long term friends to many friends. I know many people but I like a smaller core group. Hmmm.... maybe that is a growth area... to be considered...
Minister supposed to visit me tonight. W doesn't know. He isn't coming to see her so I don't see an issue with it.
Stopped to visit friend who was my parents neighbor. He wasn't answering his phone and considering his age I was worried. All good though. I will be helping him hang an exterior door that he painted. That man has GAL figured out.
Visit with Minister and a Deacon was about 30 minutes. Was good visit from my perspective. W wasn't home. Didn't return last night and hadn't shared her plans.
It would be nice to at least know she was safe. Maybe.... I don't want to get a phone call or an officer at the door saying they have bad news.
Am I angry about it? Yes. Can I honestly expect to be able to do anything about it? No. I absolutely want to. I want US...
So today starts at the bottom and looks like a dive. Yeah I have family and friends who would all miss me. It just hurts seeing this crumble.
Hating life in general right now. Really feeling this isn't worth it. But then she (W) wins... like I said.... hate... frustration... with most directed at myself and some at her.
Went to Church. Sermon seemed to be rather relevant. Minister I have been talking too gave the sermon. Been a long time since a face to face meeting with him. He was glad to see the progress I have made as far as returning to the Church.
Feeling better since going to church.
Some of that frustration is the W. Some is work and co workers. You borrow a tool or get out a piece of equipment put it away. Is that so hard? Apparently... arrrgh... not bad guys but come on...
Still reading Steve85. You got lots of advice given. Lots to absorb about your journey...
So during a conversation with my son he asked about when I could have another driving lesson with/for his GF. Future DiL... up to them. They have been an item (that even still a phrase?) since 8th grade. I took him driving and another of his friends when it was time. So why not. FYI his friend's Dad had passed away which is why I did it. His Mom wasn't the one usually driving when the H was alive so...
Anyway it suggests to me the mind set I need to maintain right now. I'm not driving. I can only suggest (at best) right now. However better to just observe and remain calm.
Just a few thoughts to start the day with. Time to turn 2.
Feel pretty good right now. Nothing to do with the W. Whole 'nother set of emotions there as everyone can understand and relate to.
So what has my spirits up you wonder. Well let me share, because that is what we are here for. The up, the down, the corkscrew in this roller coaster we are on.
I was assigned a piece of test equipment to make sure it operates to its specifications. Its what I do at my job. So this is a piece that I hadn't seen before, at least this model. I had seen and tested similar equipment but this one was kicking my butt so to speak. Well with a little assist from Tech support the problem was solved. Now the sales guys have a nice new (for us) piece to sell for a nice bit of $$$. That should make the boss/owner happy.
Tomorrow... I have a piece sitting on my bench that is failing. Repairing is not cheap and with what its telling me, probably not going to happen. So bye bye... see ya... on to the next piece. Also a bit of $$$ but hey that is how the game goes.
Helped former neighbor to my parents hang the newly painted patio door. Ya know, putting furniture glides on the bottom of the door was really nice. Allowed us to move the door and not ruin the paint job. There was enough clearance that removing the slides was easy too. That is experience... nice trick I will have to remember for the future. Of course now everyone here knows now too.
FYI, yes the W is on my mind a whole lot. So not detaching all that well. She normally locks her bedroom door. Even before the BD, she would lock our door when we were in the same room. Don't know... maybe cultural. I mean if the door is shut you knock... I mentioned this because I will check the door. Mostly locked. Sometimes not. I used to snoop. I suppose this still is in a way. I don't open the door though. Maybe I should, with 3 dozen roses, a box of chocolate, tickets to a concert for her favorite artist. A suit, new haircut, cologne... the whole nine yards. Get a response... you know, any response is a response. Charge with guns blazing!
Expanding the exercise routine. New sore muscles. YES!!! I am on my way to getting the body of a Norse god. No... not one of the out of shape ones either. More pain to come. If I fail to become someone only a fool would leave, (yes I know there is more than just the body to all of this) then maybe I will have to beat them off with a stick [hammer ( I did say Norse god)].
I obviously want to get to MR 2.0 as H 2.0 with this W. Yes she isn't the same person as when we met, married or who I believe her to be. Well isn't that true for all of us?
So while hanging out at the ER to meet a nurse from the islands might be in the future, that is smoke on the horizon for now. I want who I married. I would very much want to woo her again, show her how special I know her to be. I believe she is, that she is worth the struggle ahead and God brought us together for a reason. I didn't hold up my part as well as I should have. With His help I will get a second chance. I have to be ready though and this time really mean it.
PS. I tried changing to a new brand of deodorant. Apparently that particular one gave me a rash. So still with the old brand.
Okay. I have been awake for over an hour. Its 0300. I'm not in a good mood. I am beginning to think I picked the wrong name for the boards. I should have gone with T.I.M. because. I'm feeling rather invisible. There is a story to this and I covered it once.
I am really frustrated, angry, and just in an emotional tempest right now.
I just unfriended someone on FB not because of them but other people he is friends with. They lead off their posts or replies with insults, name calling and vulgarity. I'm sorry, but if this is your opening move or default position you are too effing stupid to waste my time on. Like I said I am in a mood right now. Because part of what I wrote included my thoughts about becoming a statistic on the south or west sides of Chicago. Hey insurance doesn't pay out for suicide but if you are killed by a gang banger all is good. Nothing to explain to family, can skip the note because HEY wrong place at the wrong time.
Don't like that plan? Well how about pack the car with the stuff I deem important and ghost the whole thing. House, W, the D, all of it. Chuck the phone somewhere. the whole thing. You watch enough TV or read enough the process is there.
Of course there is the stop on the bridge over the river on the way to work. Its well above the water. Sit on the edge, use a knife and fall. No way the rescue efforts would be able to do more than recover my body. Piss a lot of commuters off to with all the emergency vehicles blocking the highway. Go out with some fan fare.
Yeah, I know. You have a loving family and grandkids that would miss you. Well right now there is a huge hole in me. A hole that one person can fill and she wants nothing to do with me. She means the world to me and all the advice I read here is it takes time. Yeah okay fine. She knows me and so yeah can see through any tricks. She knows how to push my buttons as well as my sister. I made a choice years ago, HER. Was I neglectful? From her POV yes. I want to make her happy and right now that would be to leave her. Leave her and lie to the world with a smile and say everything is okay when it is anything but.
People come here for help and seeking answers. Not all the answers are the ones we want to hear. MWD promotes "Save your Marriage" then the fine print is not all of them can be.
I watch the numbers on the posts and responses. So people are reading. Yeah everyone here is hurting or has been hurting. So we are supposed to support and help each other. I may be writing things down here and it may sound like I am doing all the right things. It sure doesn't feel like it. Don't pursue. Well if she felt that I was ignoring her then not pursuing seems like more of the same. So at this point it seems like I am facing a loose/loose scenario.
A rant plain and simple. I suppose everyone goes through it. I don't feel all better because the tempest is still there. subsiding... maybe, but not fast enough.
PS. Chatting with the guy. We agree to disagree, are civil etc. So we are going to do a temp block.
Hey Turbine - I'm up early and noticed your thread at the top of the pile.
I've not read back far but I recognize the song that's playing in the background.
What you and what I and what most of us have gone through / are going through is a huge pile of cr@p.
I too saw the dark places you are talking about and nearly went there. There were 3 very close calls.
No - I didn't "save my marriage" and from the perspective of a couple of years out, that was probably a good thing for me. We're about the same age but still have a lot of life in front of us.
What helped me was that I was able - with effort and help from friends - to see that there was a "farther shore" on the other side of the darkness. It would flicker in and out of sight but once I first saw it, I knew that it was there.
I struggled through the dark times you are in the middle of and have a pretty good life. No new person in it, haven't heard from my ex in a long time - don't want to.
You can get through this. Just like they tell you on an airplane though, take care of yourself first. I'm glad that you have people around you like your pastor and deacon who are doing their best to help you through this as well.
Try to get some rest T. Let those emotions flush away. Cycles are sometime up and sometime down. Just be strong man. You have the strength. Get some IC advice, contact your church, just try to ease your mind at this time.
You need to be strong Turbine. Keep posting. We are here.
hey T, stay strong. prayer and meditation helps. try to be around people, talk to them. doesn’t have to be about your sitch. don’t wallow in guilt and self pity. you are better than her. praying for you T.
Arguing on FB is not ever a good idea. However when you've had enough and drop an insult on the straight from the Gunny's vocabulary, there is a certain satisfaction. My kids learned early that when I started swearing I was really, really pissed. Well that crowd hasn't learned that lesson. Not a fight I want but not one I want to back away from either. Civil discussion is a lost thing.... sad.
Good thing or not?
Turbine - I feel your pain. I was there once too. Even when things were the darkest, I knew I was better than that. I have kids who love me. I held it together for them.
I still have my ups and downs. Today is one of the downs. But I will pick myself back up and start again tomorrow.
You sound like you have a good support network and are working towards being better emotional, physically and spiritually. These are good things . Keep sight of them. They will guide you through the darkness.
Re the FB - What was your goal? What did it achieve?
Probably nothing was achieved but I don't care to be insulted or brow beaten. I had enough of that in school. Too much stupid.
Social media is an endless fight T. Get away from that. Just relax and get some rest man.
People come here for help and seeking answers. Not all the answers are the ones we want to hear. MWD promotes "Save your Marriage" then the fine print is not all of them can be.
I watch the numbers on the posts and responses. So people are reading. Yeah everyone here is hurting or has been hurting. So we are supposed to support and help each other. I may be writing things down here and it may sound like I am doing all the right things. It sure doesn't feel like it. Don't pursue. Well if she felt that I was ignoring her then not pursuing seems like more of the same. So at this point it seems like I am facing a loose/loose scenario.
Turbine,
There is no fine print that not all marriages can be saved - that is just the reality of human nature and there are a million variables that play into it. And no one can say for certain what would save a marriage, and again, there probably isn't one act or one word that would do such a thing. It's actions and attitudes, just like life. You seem to be an experienced man, I haven't read your whole thread. You are prior service?
Well, either way, life is always trying to crap on us. It's on each man and woman to make the best of it. People are reading your thread, some are members, some are just browsing the forums.
If you feel like you're doing nothing by not pursuing, maybe you're right. Has pursuing worked for you so far? If so, continue it by all means. If not, and you don't know what works, stop doing what doesn't work. That's part of the Divorce Remedy technique. You can then experiment to see if something works, but set a plan. In the meantime, you focus on your GAL, give the gal space and time. Let her miss you. Let her FEEL what it's like to not have you. She can't feel the reality of that if you are pursuing her all the time. She can't miss the good things about you if you are up her rear end about MC, fixing things, giving it "one more try", etc.
And for chrissakes stay off Facebook and the like. Over 10 years ago I realized how much of a waste of time that was. Just stop. Use that time to make your life better. You'll get satisfaction from doing real things in real life with real people. Plenty of studies out there demonstrating the negatives of social media and how it is warping our culture. Every day you have choices to make, those choices make you who you are, so make the best choices and do it based on your values.
More like filter the friend list. There are some legit hobby groups, family and friends there. Yeah... otherwise so much a waste.
If you feel like you're doing nothing by not pursuing, maybe you're right. Has pursuing worked for you so far? If so, continue it by all means. If not, and you don't know what works, stop doing what doesn't work. That's part of the Divorce Remedy technique. You can then experiment to see if something works, but set a plan. In the meantime, you focus on your GAL, give the gal space and time. Let her miss you. Let her FEEL what it's like to not have you. She can't feel the reality of that if you are pursuing her all the time. She can't miss the good things about you if you are up her rear end about MC, fixing things, giving it "one more try", etc.
What I am trying to say, and am doing poorly, is that one of her complaints was I ignored her. So pursuing her is a no no and ignoring her seems to be more of the same. So what do I do? Pursue her anyway or ignore her because at this point both get the same reaction. Which is sort of why are you even trying? Of course if I am trying nothing this is confusing to me.
I got replacement screws for the license plate on the rear because the installed ones are rusty. Looks bad on her nice car. Screw pitch is wrong. She is upset that I wanted to do this unasked for. I didn't want anything from her for doing this. I didn't like the rusted screws there.
So about this doing something and expecting something in return. I get this is selfish behavior. If you do something and hope for but actually don't expect anything is this still the same? Or does it have to be a just do stuff and not even hope for anything in addition to the don't expect anything? Not sure if the distinction is only in my head. Very well could be.
If I had to grade myself in the Detaching course right now I would be giving myself a failing grade. Not even positive comments for effort. Because I go to sleep without her next to me, Wake up that way, eat, cook, etc. Yet she is front and center on my mind.
Same as GAL. Its all mechanical now. No joy in activities that I enjoyed before either. Not going to the movies. Heck I cried during Deadpool 2. Not exactly a tear jerker. I want to be there with her. Or not at a movie. Having a nice dinner that we cooked or at a restaurant we went to because. Hug and kiss before we went to work. Making her a lunch just because.
Yeah I asked her about the lunches. More for was she enjoying them and would she like something different than a pat on the back. She said no so I stopped. Yes I know she is capable of doing that for herself. I said as much and said I didn't mind doing this because I was already doing it for one so two was a few seconds more. Nope.
There is a huge hole still and I don't ever see it being filled again.
This is so wrong. There are so many memories, all across the spectrum, that we share. So many more I want us to have. Even the trip we took last year to visit her family she now resents that I went. I don't understand why. Complain I don't do something and then complain when I do.
Maybe the D is the right thing in the long term but right now That canvas is pretty empty and looks dark. Maybe even a piece of black velvet. Yeah those paintings look cheap and tawdry. Yippee me.
Down moment. Stretching into another moment and another. Wow the whole day has been garbage.
Did some stuff around the house in prep for winter. Functional life. Phtttt....
Pursuing is not the same as not ignoring.
Ignoring means someone is trying to get your attention and you don't notice or you act like you don't notice.
Pursuing is chasing after. Trying to get someone's attention.
Pursuing when someone doesn't want you won't make up for ignoring them when they did want you.
If you want to 180 pursuing, then learn how to validate what she says when she initiates contact.
As for GAL, yes, in the beginning it won't be very much fun. You'll be there and all you will think about is your marital situation. This is why activities that are new and different and require you to learn and focus are great choices. It gives your mind something it has to focus on, so that leaves less mental space for thinking about your situation. Keep GALing anyway. It will get better.
So ignoring can be unintended but still hurts, still happened. In that case I am guilty. I wanted into my cave so to speak and neither of us understood that whole cave/tide relation. I wish I had read that book when I got married. That we had. Purely speculative but would the MR been different? Odds are yes. How though is anybodies guess. Definitely no fixing that.
So the question becomes how do we fix the MR. I have to fix me first. Then determine if the MR is even worth fixing/ saving/remodeling. All three terms work since not making changes means the MR remains broken or strained. Take your pick.
I know I messed up. It gets so old that everything that gets brought up is my fault. Does it ever end? If it doesn't then it becomes abuse. None of us deserve that. I suppose that would be a bridge I wouldn't rebuild then. I love her so very much. I don't know if it is that much.
More exercise. The muscle pain is far less than the pain from the gall bladder surgery. So easily tolerated. The pain emotionally from all this, as you all know, far worse. That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
W (I haven't seen spouses mentioned by name so... ), I am so sorry that you feel this is the only way. I can say why and when and how till I am blue in the face. That changes nothing about what happened and how you feel about it. I can only say that I am truly and deeply sorry for getting us here. Maybe if I had said no to a few things and yes for others. Who knows. I do know that when I said forever, and we were very young, I didn't really understand that commitment. Because we were young, in love and all the romantic part filled our day. Our married life started out in the worst possible way. Newly wed and leaving you with our daughter on the way, living in a new country with absolute strangers that were now family to care for and assist you. Things that I should have been doing. Things I wasn't able to do because I was in the Navy and they didn't care about that stuff. (They, as an organization do and don't) You did and grew so much while I was gone. Coming home to you and our daughter. Instant family. I know when you told me you were pregnant my reaction was disappointing to you. That wasn't the news I was expecting. I understand the process but we had made different plans. But we have three wonderful children. Our relationship with them is not whatever ideal you had in mind. I can't fix that. Each of us has to deal with that on our own. I wish I could though. That hurts you, our kids, hurts me. You are my better half. You are why I have tried so hard to do and give you everything. I want to keep doing that if you will let me.
I know... all of that is the right stuff to say and all the wrong stuff and pursuing, and pressuring her. Do I want to tell her all that and more. Who wouldn't on this forum. Will I tell her. Part of me screams yes do it tell her. Another part is putting hands on my shoulders, saying slow down you idiot. She isn't ready for that message. She may never be ready... at which point I fall off the path and into the darkness...
Does writing here help me? Sometimes yes. Does getting advice even if it isn't what I want to hear help? Maybe not right away but the rational side runs through it while riding out the emotional storm caused by that part. So please, please keep reading. If you have thoughts share them. Martians ask for help. I am asking. I am getting and find I still need more. Help me understand my Venusian.
FWIW I didn't make it though the above without tears. Man I so want her...
God, learning to do this is so hard. Got to trust Your plan.
It's not about right or wrong Turbine, It's about not chasing after someone who doesn't want you. You chasing after them isn't going to do anything. Ok, maybe there's a tiny chance, but most likely you just come off looking needy and weak.
And not pursuing doesn't mean you ignore her, you just stop the pursuit and stop the pressure. Your mind can reason through this, but you are in a tough emotional spot. I've been there. Go read my old threads. If you click on my user name it will show you my posts. Then go back to the very first one. I was probably "worse" than you.
Trying not to chase or pressure her. Trying not to ignore her either. Don't want to be perceived as needy or weak. I want to be the best choice and the one she wants to keep because she chooses to look at me again. I want to do the work required. We will see.
I will continue reading Steve and add your thread.
Not as unique as I think but not as common either. We didn't just have the two different people but cultures as well. She is still priceless in my heart.
Those were beautiful words Turbine. I think your W would want to hear them and appreciate them...when the time is right. Sounds like this is not the time so put them away somewhere and save them for the right time. I think you will know when that is... when she is ready to hear them. I have regrets too...it takes two to make a marriage work and I know that I was always putting off “fixing” things to take care of things that seemed more urgent at the time. If only I had known how urgent things were. But please don’t blame yourself. No good comes from that. Take responsibility for the things you did and didn’t do, absolutely. But this is not all on you. She had, and has, choices. Keep posting, keep GAL. Have faith. (((HUGS)))
Thank you DejaVu6. I want to say that and so much more.
However, this morning I am at 180 from that. When she left Friday night she didn't say when she would be back. She didn't return last night.
Is she safe? IDK. On my way to work my mood was: Pack your stuff and get out. All of your stuff. BTW this would be a moving van alone.
Do I really want that? Probably not and just feeling hurt and unloved by the most important person in my life.
Thank you DejaVu6. I want to say that and so much more.
However, this morning I am at 180 from that. When she left Friday night she didn't say when she would be back. She didn't return last night.
Is she safe? IDK. On my way to work my mood was: Pack your stuff and get out. All of your stuff. BTW this would be a moving van alone.
Do I really want that? Probably not and just feeling hurt and unloved by the most important person in my life.
Turbine, you are reacting on emotions based on your expectations. This will NOT get you where you want to be.
Take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
1) Is kicking her out getting me closer or further away from where I want to be?
2) If I am this hurt and feeling unloved, then am I detached the way I should be?
3) What GAL activities did I engage in this weekend as to not sit and dwell on where she was, what she was doing, etc?
4) Do I really know what a 180 is since your use of the term in the quote above suggests that I do not.
Turbine, one thing to remember with DBing: Giving up and letting things progress (kicking her out, filing for divorce, moving on with someone new) is always an option, but it is taking the easy way out. DBing is always the harder of the two options. But that is because it is the most desirable of the two options.
So, after you ask questions 1-4, ask yourself. In a year, 2, 5, 10, 20 from now, do you want to look back and say you took the easy way out?
What I am trying to say, and am doing poorly, is that one of her complaints was I ignored her. So pursuing her is a no no and ignoring her seems to be more of the same. So what do I do? Pursue her anyway or ignore her because at this point both get the same reaction. Which is sort of why are you even trying? Of course if I am trying nothing this is confusing to me.
This is a very common question from people new to this situation. Here's the key thing you need to understand about this- YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE. You HAVE been through fights, disputes, arguments, disagreements and you are programmed to respond to those situations in a certain way to bring your wife back. But there is an enormous difference between a spouse that is mad at you and a walkaway wife. HUGE difference. You do not have the tools to deal with a WAW, but that is why Michele wrote her books and it is why we have this forum- to give you the tools you need. What you need to do is get out of your own head. Quit thinking you need to fix things the way you always have, because as you've already discovered, that doesn't work. Center yourself, begin with a beginner's mind. Read DR again. Understand DR. Get a DB coach if you can.
OK so back to what you said above- she is in a mode right now where she is telling you what you did wrong, but being a WAW, she has zero interest in you fixing those things. Any attempt you make to right those wrongs will just be seen by her as "too little too late". It is also pressure, and what she wants right now is ZERO pressure from you.
As hard as this will be to hear, your wife no longer is in love with you. In fact she may despise you, it's not at all uncommon. So EVERYTHING you do is making her hate you more. So what do you do? Well nothing directly. You pull back. You give her time and space. You work on yourself. Eventually her negative feelings will diminish, but it's going to be months yet.
I've used this analogy before, not everyone can identify with it but most can depending on how much dating they did before getting married. Most of us dated and broke up a few times before M. Most of us have "that" girlfriend or boyfriend that was super clingy after breakup and wanted desperately to get back with us. If you have that experience then you will probably recall how absolutely turned off you were by it. They seem so pathetic and needy and you can't help think "oh man, why would I EVER want this in my life again" and that is EXACTLY how your wife sees you right now. By contrast, many of us broke up with someone who simply said "OK, well I wish you the best" and never looked back. Well THAT person suddenly seemed "higher value". You think "Why didn't they try to reconcile? Did I make the wrong decision? I wonder what they are doing? How did they move on so fast? Who are they with right now?" So this is the whole idea of leaving your W alone. Not in a cold, rude or indifferent way, but lovingly detaching and leaving her to sort out her issues and learn to miss you. Some day she will, and she WILL look back. And will she see a sad, desperate you or will she see a strong, independent you enjoying life without her?
I got replacement screws for the license plate on the rear because the installed ones are rusty. Looks bad on her nice car. Screw pitch is wrong. She is upset that I wanted to do this unasked for.
Of course she is. She absolutely would be, that's 100% consistent with a WAW mindset. She HATES you for trying to help, and any attempt you make to do so is just digging a deeper hole for yourself. SO STOP. She wants to be independent of you, she wants to do things herself, she wants to prove to herself that she can. So let her.
I didn't want anything from her for doing this. I didn't like the rusted screws there.
In other words, you put your needs before hers. How's that going you think?
Thank you DejaVu6. I want to say that and so much more.
However, this morning I am at 180 from that. When she left Friday night she didn't say when she would be back. She didn't return last night.
Is she safe? IDK. On my way to work my mood was: Pack your stuff and get out. All of your stuff. BTW this would be a moving van alone.
Do I really want that? Probably not and just feeling hurt and unloved by the most important person in my life.
Turbine, you are reacting on emotions based on your expectations. This will NOT get you where you want to be.
Take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
1) Is kicking her out getting me closer or further away from where I want to be?
2) If I am this hurt and feeling unloved, then am I detached the way I should be?
3) What GAL activities did I engage in this weekend as to not sit and dwell on where she was, what she was doing, etc?
4) Do I really know what a 180 is since your use of the term in the quote above suggests that I do not.
Turbine, one thing to remember with DBing: Giving up and letting things progress (kicking her out, filing for divorce, moving on with someone new) is always an option, but it is taking the easy way out. DBing is always the harder of the two options. But that is because it is the most desirable of the two options.
So, after you ask questions 1-4, ask yourself. In a year, 2, 5, 10, 20 from now, do you want to look back and say you took the easy way out?
I know this was reacting from emotions.I wrote this out of frustration.
Kicking her out would not bring me closer to desired goal. Emotional side getting out in front..
Detached... not even close. I look at what I saw with my parents. Yes they had issues. They also were married 52 years.
GAL was hanging with friends Sat and Sunday. Church Sunday AM. Need more . Still time in my head at home.
Talking about 180, I was unclear in writing that it was my feelings this morning about this sitch. . Not the 180 in DB.
In no way do I want to not say I exhausted every avenue. Even the ones that I didn't know about before reading DB/DR.
So is a coach worth it?
If you can afford it, then yes. I wouldn't do it if you can't.
AnotherStander, you are right. I don't know how to deal with this. I ignored or brushed off the warnings. I thought the words were given in the heat of an argument. I didn't pay attention to her and am paying for it now.
She has said too little too late. Said she doesn't love me. Still cares though because I am the father to our children. (opposing positions?) I am trying to give her space and no pressure. Although everything seems like pressure.
Attending Church for example. However I won't stop that nor change which church. I feel much calmer going and this is good.
I got two emails from the lawyer wanting paperwork. So time isn't my friend in that regard. Yeah, feels like I am loosing here and loosing her. Sadly I suspect she only sees the bad me she doesn't want. I pray that changes. I also am doing what I can to make it more likely.
I wanted to replace those screws because it looked bad. She has a very nice car. I didn't replace anything because wrong pitch. She doesn't want me to now so I won't. Although I could and not tell her. That would be wrong so not happening.
Wife left on Friday night. Haven't heard a peep from her... still. Feel so disrespected. No Police Officer at the door either. So that is useless nothing.
I did find a pen knife I usually carried. Was my Dad's. So irreplaceable, at least to me. Someday I hope to give it to my son.
No contact when she is gone is a mixed bag. She is always on my mind. Detach... so need to get that down.
Trying to be honest with myself and all of you. Otherwise any input is junk. Not helpful.
Thank God I am not trying to build anything. All this talk of 2x4s makes me think I am at a lumber yard.
I know I am making mistakes. It would be awfully arrogant to think that I am correctly self correcting my actions. I am smart enough to know that I can and should learn more. Everyday.
So I visited my Dr this afternoon. Minor hold over issue from the gall bladder surgery. I love my Dr. She is fantastic.
So supper is done. Dishes too. W is no where in sight. If she has written off the MR then other than a miracle I suppose my life with her is done. I want the miracle. Yeah, not all that long into this journey. So from what I have read in Steve 85's threads (on #6 now) he was lucky in the timing of all of this garbage.
Not me so much. I guess I missed too many flags. For whatever reason. She says too late. We aren't dead. Then it is too late. So more on making me Ver. 2.0 and a being the better option, the one she regrets being rash about.
I hope and pray we get another crack at US, but as Ver 2.0.
Of course there is a lot of work ahead to do that. Lots of reading here, DB/DR, the Bible.
Tempted to send her a text. Not sure what I would say if I did though. Anything that has come to mind seems to be counter productive anyway. So Posting away here seems like all the action tonight. Storms are passing through so... Not important.
Since she doesn't seem to be all that interested in packing her stuff, at some point I will have to do it myself (not desired choice), let her do it (cake eating of sorts?) or somehow convince her to work with me (not sure what I feel about that choice). Unless (likely reading too much into this) she is having second thoughts and/or is slowing things down to build her resources. Useless speculation.
Tomorrow is end of the month. Business is still... wanting. The end of month rush though. Ugh.
Faith seems to be a big factor here. I have found my returning to Church to be calming personally. Not sure about her reaction beyond some resentment. I don't ask, don't offer and am willing to trust God. He brought us together once and if it is His plan will do so again. I have something to learn first I guess. I suppose W does too. Time will tell.
I had said something about a 180 before. That was my mind set. Still is flipping back and forth. The action/behavior 180... working on that. Staying calm, centered, above the storm... no... not above... untroubled by ... that sounds better. Do stuff. Some of what she wanted but now unprompted... not sure how she would view that. Not going to let that govern my actions. I should do it because I want to, its the right thing to do, etc. If she approves... fine. If not then discontinue or do it when she won't see anything but the results.
Submitted for 2x4 review.
Okay, got home from church last night, not long after the W got home. Didn't ask her where she had been and she didn't offer. Not sure what I that says about my state of mind.
She sent me a text from the next room that it was her turn to get the money from her brother. She wants to pay the cell phone bill. He is on the plan with us. I waited about a minute and then knocked on the bedroom door. Told her no it doesn't work that way. Mortgage payment.
She responded with sell the house. I left it at that, Okay, actually I sent her a text message back: All expenses are house expenses. No taking turns. I would be willing to work on a short term solution with you.
No answer to this as of writing this. I didn't get mad or anything else. If she takes it other than just a statement then that is on her. Neither of us can afford the house on our own and not sure how we could afford individually anything either. Part of me doesn't care that she is feeling a bit of $$$ pain. I am too.
I still believe we are better as a team. That we can do better and should. If that doesn't happen... Not sure what I would do. I am more certain I will recover. Of course I would like to reconnect as I have said a lot.
Where are the 2x4s? Or the belt sanders etc...
Hi Turbine,
you're too focused on her. Reread Cadet's links. GAL. Let her go. This person doesn't want you. So move your life forward as a strong man who doesn't chase after something he cannot catch. Spend that time and energy on something productive!
Something more productive like getting a house ready to sell that is filled with stuff that isn't all mine to deal with? So do I pack it all and tell her too bad, you had the chance to pack your things or work around it? Because there is so much it is overwhelming.
Some pieces were my grandmother's. Went to my mother. My aunt would like one in particular since it was her mothers. W didn't like that. I didn't care if I got it or not. W felt I was giving stuff away that should have been mine. Like I said, I didn't care if I got it. Really didn't have room for it. Don't have room for some of the pieces the W brought in from wherever. Rarely told W no or enough. That applied to probably more than was good. So much for trying to make/keep her happy... then and I suppose even now.
Whatever happens W isn't happy. Took both of us to get here. W is driving this. Maybe time to take my foot off the brake and put it on the accelerator. Limbo is the pits.
Checking out the MLC forum. I noticed a larger and different set of pinned topics. Some of them seem very universal. Other than bookmarking the lists (apparently not recommended) that , in my case, Job gave in the welcoming post could these be pinned in a separate universal referenced location?
Just thought...
Thanks
Checking out the MLC forum. I noticed a larger and different set of pinned topics. Some of them seem very universal. Other than bookmarking the lists (apparently not recommended) that , in my case, Job gave in the welcoming post could these be pinned in a separate universal referenced location?
Just thought...
Thanks
Its not something we have the capability of doing, we are only moderators not administrators.
Hey there Turbine - I've not been following too closely but you are treading along a path that many of us have walked before you.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You are dealing with things that are life-altering and largely out of your hands.
Don't expect anything much from her either the practical nor the emotional. Superficially you appear to be around where I was in June 2016 when I was whacked with so many 2X4s that I eventually built myself a virtual "Cabin in the Woods".
You've heard this a bucket of times already I am sure but I'll repeat it. Focus on yourself and your own journey. Be the "sane parent" for your kids and grandkids. They are going to be confused and need you to be their lighthouse on the rock.
Without detailed reading, it would appear that in some ways your story is similar to mine - heck pretty much all the stories here are the same in some way or another. Know that this isn't about you. Also know that at this point that there's not a darned thing you can do that will change her mind or swerve her from her course.
I'm sorry if that isn't something you are ready to hear at this point and yes - I could well be wrong.
As far as your wife goes, she isn't someone who can be trusted. She's probably up way past the eyeballs in lies and secrets, most of which you probably don't want to know. She's also, like so many, unlikely to do any of the adulting or heavy-lifting. She is being very very selfish right now.
Is she going through a MLC or whatnot? Difficult to say and irrelevant. You can't help her and she doesn't want your help. Will she come out the other side and look for you? Again, difficult to say and also still irrelevant. Many of us put our lives on hold waiting. Some for longer durations than others.
Good luck. This stuff is hard.
Hey there Turbine - I've not been following too closely but you are treading along a path that many of us have walked before you.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You are dealing with things that are life-altering and largely out of your hands.
Don't expect anything much from her either the practical nor the emotional. Superficially you appear to be around where I was in June 2016 when I was whacked with so many 2X4s that I eventually built myself a virtual "Cabin in the Woods".
Don't be too hard on myself. Yeah, I probably am. Sometimes I give in too soon. Others I refuse to give up. I am in mode 2. I haven't seen enough 2x4s to frame in a cabin yet. Or maybe I have and being in mode 2 I am getting a nice big ol' stack of 'em.
You've heard this a bucket of times already I am sure but I'll repeat it. Focus on yourself and your own journey. Be the "sane parent" for your kids and grandkids. They are going to be confused and need you to be their lighthouse on the rock.
Kids are supportive, believe I can do better and short of a miracle, will have less and less to do with their mother. Not what I would like to have happen. Much of that has been long in the making and I accept my part in it. As for the grandkids... haven't made it an issue. The oldest two (granddaughters) would be most likely to understand (10,9) but they live in Buffalo NY. Their parents are divorced. The next two (grandsons) may or may not (8,6) fully get it. My wife butts heads with this daughter. They are cut from the same cloth and I'd say share a few common cut edges. This daughter is divorced as well. The baby... well she is a baby. No idea what is going on in her mind. Although it would be sort of cool to know. With no reference though.... be tough to sort out.
All of our children are willing to and have offered (bordering on insisting) that eventually I come live with them. Long term it is a great thought and I am very appreciative of it. Will it happen? Who knows.
Without detailed reading, it would appear that in some ways your story is similar to mine - heck pretty much all the stories here are the same in some way or another. Know that this isn't about you. Also know that at this point that there's not a darned thing you can do that will change her mind or swerve her from her course.
Please read and comment. I see the interest from the number of views but have missed the mother lode of knowledge here. I know I can get help here and a reality check. Like I said before; this Martian is asking for help with his Venusian. I do like that book. Much of that to be put to use after getting to MR 2.0 and definitely for me as 2.0
I'm sorry if that isn't something you are ready to hear at this point and yes - I could well be wrong.
As far as your wife goes, she isn't someone who can be trusted. She's probably up way past the eyeballs in lies and secrets, most of which you probably don't want to know. She's also, like so many, unlikely to do any of the adulting or heavy-lifting. She is being very very selfish right now.
Is she going through a MLC or whatnot? Difficult to say and irrelevant. You can't help her and she doesn't want your help. Will she come out the other side and look for you? Again, difficult to say and also still irrelevant. Many of us put our lives on hold waiting. Some for longer durations than others.
Good luck. This stuff is hard.
Ready to hear is and ready to accept it are not one and the same. Am I there on both counts. To be honest... probably not. Taking a poll here would probably support that. a poll on my progress... Hmmm... I think it would be seriously needed because I feel like I have made some progress. I don't have a good metric though and being hard on myself to different degrees makes me a poor judge of my own progress.
At best I am getting mixed signals from her. At this point these might as well be background noise. As you say the MLC or ??? really doesn't matter because. I am trying to move on with my life. Right now though for any foreseeable length of time I see it to be a lonesome trip. Supposed to be her there. In God's hands.
So my plan is to continue to work on me. Diet, exercise, GAL, work on the house, attend Church. My S asked me to help him and a friend with the friends car. Needs a battery and now its a teachable moment. This coming from a not a car guy. Thankfully I have access to a great resource in Ray. (I know there is this thing called the internet and google) Ray was my parents neighbor. Wealth of knowledge and all the tools to do the job. I helped him hand the patio door after he painted it. Yesterday we went and ran a few errands at the grocery store/pharmacy before going to lunch. Good stuff. FWIW we like the new lunch place but it still doesn't beat our favorite watering hole. Sort of like Cheer's, where everyone knows your name.
Went to bed last night after W left again. Working, because I have nothing to support anything else, and yes I am not happy about it. Can't do anything about it either so why bother. However this morning I woke up feeling not completely accepting of any of this but more a step away from completely fighting it. It isn't a on/off switch is it. More like a volume control or a stepped switch. So I am not at a hard stop on the end of it. Good? Bad? Just a sign of progress? IDK. Wish I did though.
So time to start my day. Run a few errands. Likely to spend the night with my D and S. So that means I will see my grandsons. They are always happy to see me. Go for a walk with my D and their dog. Looking forward to Veterans Day. Going to attend an luncheon with this D and then go Veteran's Day special crawling. Hooter's, Olive Garden, etc. The two of us did it last year and was fun. If the oldest were with us then it would be the three of us. Maybe someday.
Spent the night at younger D. Watched a few episodes of Sabrina with her and her BF. Wow is that a much darker series than what was on before. Definitely not kid level show. Maybe not even early teen.
They also got a new kitten. Guess who was my sleep buddy last night. Must have thought my snoring was equivalent to purring... who knows.
Church was not bad. Talked to a family friend. She had gone for lunch a month or so ago. Complimented her on the pictures she had posted. She also had gone to a comedy show by Jo Koi the night before. Asked her about that. Okay... shouldn't have brought up the W and her at lunch right? I haven't mentioned the sitch with the W to her. Don't know what the W told her. Not asking.
Sermon was timely and had me thinking. I hope nothing worse and getting better but am working on going south. Sad... it is what it is and what will be will be.
Time change playing with my schedule. Don't know if eliminating the time shift is a plus or not. Whatever... stray thought.
Didn't mind the kitten. D thinks I ought to get a dog or cat. Maybe in the future. Would be a change. W is allergic to dog we had and not sure about a cat. After the D.
Chores tonight after afternoon activity with S. Laundry and trash to the curb. Maybe Dinner with S and his GF.
W worked this weekend. Don't know when she got home. Care only to the point she was safe. Safe is important. I don't want to see any harm come to her. Where does that fit in to all of this? Beyond remaining a decent human being?
Oh well. Had an interesting dream. We were in the kitchen and out of the blue got nice kiss from W. Followed by a second. Like I said, nice. Being a dream though... I did keep cool though and not go all romance novel either. Whiskey Tango .....
Second dream was a reoccurring dream. Not related to W. I might be binge watching Hawaii 5.0 a little to much.
Hi again. Since you asked, I went back and read through your thread.
Weird - but also somewhat familiar.
So - you were in the Navy? My son-in-law is on the USS Lincoln. He's not intending to go the full time either but it has given him a good trade and future prospects. I presume you met your W while on deployment? I recall a book by Adm. James Savridis that I read recently where he complimented what great wives the Filipinos make.
One thing that I'm not reading is much about what sort of person your wife is. I'm reading between the lines here. You may not agree and you may not like this, but it is what I can infer from the limited information available.
On the surface she strikes me as an entitled woman who is focused on appearances and has historically been very much in control of you and the marriage. Your financial position sounds troubling yet I also read how your W has a high-end car while at the same time you have large amounts of unsecured debt. At our time of life that can lead to a very difficult transition into retirement.
It may not feel like it, and I certainly disagreed about it on my own situation while going through the absolute h@ll of in-house separation, but you've got a classic cake-eater on your hands. "Sell the house" she says - no consultation - no consideration of what your wishes might be. Give me money "because". I'm offended on your behalf. She has stuff piling up all over the place - and very similarly to my own experience, you are reluctant to / afraid to touch any of it. Meanwhile she gets the full enjoyment of the marriage and marital resources while you get the shaft.
She doesn't want you she says but has lame reasons. Wants a divorce, but is still hanging around some months later. I expect that you have been a pretty decent husband. None of us are perfect. The things she complains about are pretty typical and if they were big enough to cause the break-up of a long-term marriage she would have been gone a long time ago. A number of WAW wait until the kids are grown and out of the house, but they generally have a well executed plan and are gone before the letter from their lawyer hits the floor.
You've not come out and said it explicitly but you strongly suspect the presence of an OM. Her job does make being absent easy to "explain". As an aside - I would suggest getting tested for STDs. If there is an affair, well - people do stupid things like having unprotected sex with relative strangers.
In my case, my now ex was what some people call a "branch-swinger". She kept a firm grip on me while working on securing her new wonderful life with her OM. Spoiler alert - it didn't work out the way she expected. During the time when I kept hoping for her affair to burn out, she also had full access to marital resources (used our savings to take OM on a tropical vacation), I made her car payments and most of her stuff was still in the house. I spent my time balling my eyes out and arguing with people here.
Now, I'm not a huge DB cheer-leader. I think that MWD methods probably do work well for many people, but for a lot of us here on the forum, we're generally pretty far down the rabbit hole for that to work. With that said, there have been a number of reconciliations that I've seen here but they are pretty rare.
So - what I'm going to suggest is VERY non DB.
Consequences. Called by some here boundaries if you want to DB-ify it a bit.
Right now you are getting walked all over and are accepting that. I get it. I probably still have boot prints all over my back myself.
Have you had a good talk with your lawyer on how the divorce will work out in practical terms? How badly will you be scr@wed over? Will you need to sell the house? How much support will be paid? Does she make enough to be self-supporting?
What about her brother and mother? If she leaves presumably she needs to take them with her.
You also probably want to protect yourself financially. Talk to your bank. See what you can do to ensure that you have your own separate funding available that she can't put her hands on. Don't trust her to not be selfish. See if you can get pre-approved for a new mortgage that will roll up the debts and be under just you. Check about financing for your legal fees - divorce is expensive. Mine was pretty much completely conflict free but I was still out 8 grand.
OK - digest that and then tell me that I'm an idiot and wrong.
You'll also notice that I didn't mention anything about how any of this would bring her back to you. It probably won't. Having to deal with consequences might wake her up though to the fact that she's no longer the boss of you and can't just steam-roll over you.
If you do want a smidgen of hope - and I'm only talking a smidgen - check out Gordie's threads. His wife went through 2 OM, rubbed his face in it, stopped going to church and expected him to be OK with it all. Once he got to the point of ensuring that she knew that things were not going to work out as per her fantasy and was within days of moving in to an apartment, she dropped the OM and her divorce. They're trying to work things out. Gordie is rather a super-hero here for his dedication and devotion.
Good post Andrew, although I'd say I'm a bit more optimistic on the marriages being saved - but that's just me!
Hi again. Since you asked, I went back and read through your thread.
Weird - but also somewhat familiar.
So - you were in the Navy? My son-in-law is on the USS Lincoln. He's not intending to go the full time either but it has given him a good trade and future prospects. I presume you met your W while on deployment? I recall a book by Adm. James Savridis that I read recently where he complimented what great wives the Filipinos make.
My wife has been fantastic. Not without flaws certainly. Right now she is focused on all the negatives with some rewriting I'm sure. I had met another lady but it wasn't... right...
One thing that I'm not reading is much about what sort of person your wife is. I'm reading between the lines here. You may not agree and you may not like this, but it is what I can infer from the limited information available.
On the surface she strikes me as an entitled woman who is focused on appearances and has historically been very much in control of you and the marriage. Your financial position sounds troubling yet I also read how your W has a high-end car while at the same time you have large amounts of unsecured debt. At our time of life that can lead to a very difficult transition into retirement.
It may not feel like it, and I certainly disagreed about it on my own situation while going through the absolute h@ll of in-house separation, but you've got a classic cake-eater on your hands. "Sell the house" she says - no consultation - no consideration of what your wishes might be. Give me money "because". I'm offended on your behalf. She has stuff piling up all over the place - and very similarly to my own experience, you are reluctant to / afraid to touch any of it. Meanwhile she gets the full enjoyment of the marriage and marital resources while you get the shaft.
My W said she was/ is depressed and she went shopping. So now there are shoes and clothes in abundance. I don't recall her telling me anything before. I wish I had paid more attention to her. Doesn't help that all she seems to think or imply was that I was only good for $$$ and even that wasn't enough. she was upset that I didn't retire from the Navy. To be honest there are times i wish I had. However my rating was very sea duty oriented and I was on crummy duty rotation when the ship was in port. Not exactly a good family life and I was not happy at my command. A number of plank owners were still attached to the command. More than a few were jerks.
She doesn't want you she says but has lame reasons. Wants a divorce, but is still hanging around some months later. I expect that you have been a pretty decent husband. None of us are perfect. The things she complains about are pretty typical and if they were big enough to cause the break-up of a long-term marriage she would have been gone a long time ago. A number of WAW wait until the kids are grown and out of the house, but they generally have a well executed plan and are gone before the letter from their lawyer hits the floor.
You've not come out and said it explicitly but you strongly suspect the presence of an OM. Her job does make being absent easy to "explain". As an aside - I would suggest getting tested for STDs. If there is an affair, well - people do stupid things like having unprotected sex with relative strangers.
Yes. I think her "reasons" are over inflated. Not completely without merit but I am totally to blame? Not true but at this point getting her to accept any responsibility for this isn't happening. I ignored her. Took my parents side.\ Sided with the kids. Stopped attending church and I lied about getting out of the Navy because I wanted to attend church more. There was some of that. Truth is I was tired of being gone all the time. Not seeing my family or being there for milestones in life. Coming home to a house that had a room reorganized because. The good ol boys club and bending rules for members. I didn't fit in. When my enlistment was approaching the end of contract the councilor or my chiefs never talked to me about reenlisting. Heck the ship was getting ready to go out for 4 to 6 weeks for training. My enlistment would be up in the middle of that. No talk of "Hey Petty Officer Turbine, are you going to reenlist? You have 12 years in. Yeah I know you got busted and we are trying to help you develop career wise. About that school you asked about? Yeah... sorry you aren't valuable enough to send to that. Oh... you want to take some leave? Sorry, you are too important to let go now. "
A wise precaution getting tested. Maybe if she shows any interest in returning to our bed. Yeah before that... talk about a mood killer. "Sweetie... have you been tested for STDs?"
Although she has said there isn't another. She isn't interested in...etc. Yeah believe nothing they say...
In my case, my now ex was what some people call a "branch-swinger". She kept a firm grip on me while working on securing her new wonderful life with her OM. Spoiler alert - it didn't work out the way she expected. During the time when I kept hoping for her affair to burn out, she also had full access to marital resources (used our savings to take OM on a tropical vacation), I made her car payments and most of her stuff was still in the house. I spent my time balling my eyes out and arguing with people here.
Now, I'm not a huge DB cheer-leader. I think that MWD methods probably do work well for many people, but for a lot of us here on the forum, we're generally pretty far down the rabbit hole for that to work. With that said, there have been a number of reconciliations that I've seen here but they are pretty rare.
I am hoping we can R and move on to MR 2.0 but the last few days I am feeling fine with done and gone too. Sad about that because up until this last weekend I was all about getting to a R and MR 2.0
So - what I'm going to suggest is VERY non DB.
Consequences. Called by some here boundaries if you want to DB-ify it a bit.
Right now you are getting walked all over and are accepting that. I get it. I probably still have boot prints all over my back myself.
Have you had a good talk with your lawyer on how the divorce will work out in practical terms? How badly will you be scr@wed over? Will you need to sell the house? How much support will be paid? Does she make enough to be self-supporting?
What about her brother and mother? If she leaves presumably she needs to take them with her.
You also probably want to protect yourself financially. Talk to your bank. See what you can do to ensure that you have your own separate funding available that she can't put her hands on. Don't trust her to not be selfish. See if you can get pre-approved for a new mortgage that will roll up the debts and be under just you. Check about financing for your legal fees - divorce is expensive. Mine was pretty much completely conflict free but I was still out 8 grand.
OK - digest that and then tell me that I'm an idiot and wrong.
Have talked to a lawyer. She stands to loose more and no she doesn't have the income to support herself. I believe she is expecting the money from the house to give her a nice cushion. Especially since she wants to dump the bulk of the bills and debt on me. Not happening. She stands to loose a chunk of her 401K. No alimony for her. Although she makes more a hour than I do so technically I can collect form her... Her mother wants to move back in. Currently living with another daughter and they are renting a room. Its messed up. Yes, BiL move out.
Funds are separate. Paying bills from a joint account that she stopped adding to. She has only paid two things from there and that is all.
No you aren't an idiot or wrong. You are asking questions that I haven't supplied information about before and some I haven't been comfortable asking myself.
You'll also notice that I didn't mention anything about how any of this would bring her back to you. It probably won't. Having to deal with consequences might wake her up though to the fact that she's no longer the boss of you and can't just steam-roll over you.
If you do want a smidgen of hope - and I'm only talking a smidgen - check out Gordie's threads. His wife went through 2 OM, rubbed his face in it, stopped going to church and expected him to be OK with it all. Once he got to the point of ensuring that she knew that things were not going to work out as per her fantasy and was within days of moving in to an apartment, she dropped the OM and her divorce. They're trying to work things out. Gordie is rather a super-hero here for his dedication and devotion.
I started reading Gordie's threads. Read your's too.
Thanks for your take on this. Posting with reads and not a lot of feedback leaves me feeling that I am blindfolded and have my hands bound while navigating a maze. Thanks for lifting the blindfold a little.
Thanks for the feedback Turbine.
Don't stress too much about what is being dredged up out of the bilges and tossed across at you. None of it is anything that can be changed. The past is the past and you've taken ownership of your issues.
One thing I can suggest is to think of this forum as a community. You've had a number of people come to call. Go around to other people's threads and check their stories. It helped me to let me know that I wasn't alone in my struggles. If you comment on their threads - even if it's just a "I hear ya" - or "You're doing great" - they will come visiting here as well.
Getting diverse feedback on your situation from people who are going through the same cr@p as you will give you perspective and strength. I know that I formed some very strong bonds, some of which I still have with quite a number of people here.
I'm not sure how philosophical you are. You strike me as a very practical man, but reading up on the Stockdale paradox has helped a number of people. Knowing that you will make it through this and come out the other side a better person can add strength. The paradox is that you have no idea what that other side would be and you have to go through h@ll to get there.
Good luck!
So oh great DB community, what to do about cake walking? She is in another bedroom. Hasn't been really packing. Removed very little as far as I can tell. Yes I had to snoop in her room to know that. No I didn't do anything more than look from the doorway. Yes, I know, still bad Turbine.
Would the request to move out be a 180 for me since I generally don't push? Or more me being a "bully" and confirming in her mind the worst. Wait... why should I care. W is the one wanting the D. She did the BD. She isn't willing to try anymore. So what is the worst that can happen? She moves out and the D goes through. I am getting resigned to that undesired outcome.
Tell me I'm wrong... or right.
Reading Gordie's thread, 5 years into, page 6. A lot to consider.
Makes me wonder. I still want to work on us, eventually. I suppose right now work on me even more. The idea of life after her... hurts still, maybe even more than before. I know I will survive it. Put it in His hands.
So W got the $$$ from her brother to pay the phone bill. Based on the amount she didn't pay last month. Makes me begin to think that going the D route is the smart thing to do. I'd like to know what she is doing with her $$$ because not helping around the house.
So rather than wait for the D, I think I will have to look at getting my own cell phone account. Because this is nuts.
I asked to see the bill. With a please rather than all caps (rude). She sent me the total portion. She gets the bill on her phone. So much for a priceless wife in reference to the Bible. Sadly the specific verses I am thinking of escape me at the moment. Another area to improve myself in. Not to be prideful in my knowledge but to seek wisdom and comfort in the lessons there.
Back to more reading.
One of the hardest parts personally for this is setting realistic goals. I know MWD lays out a good procedure for doing this yet getting some written that are not Apollo programs is still a sticking point. Reading Gordie's thread where he lists his. So I am just getting into the discussion about those efforts.
Is this an issue for everyone else? What sort of goals are you looming at? Currently mine seem to be centered on me and self improvement. Should include any aimed at us? Dropping bread crumbs so to speak? I don't want to kill this. I know... at odds with my comment about the phone bill etc.
Would the request to move out be a 180 for me since I generally don't push? Or more me being a "bully" and confirming in her mind the worst.
She probably thinks you are controlling and manipulative (since most WAW's seem to think that of their LBS). So kicking her out would just reaffirm to her that you are trying to control the sitch. The DB'ing approach is to let HER make choices and decisions without you. If she says she's moving out then you say "well I would rather you stay and work on the M, but I will respect your wishes and support you in your decisions."
Now if you are done with her, and done with DB'ing, and want to kick her out to move on with your life then that is your choice. Some people feel like they have to do that to get some semblance of their life back. And some are stuck in unendurable situations and need out for their own health or even safety.
AnotherStander, thanks. I hadn't considered that pov. I suppose she does and would see me in that light.
So with that in mind, since there seems to be little activity on her part to be moving out and none from her brother, whose activities are... I don't know what they are. helpful or detrimental... got to think on that some more.
So since she has a lot of stuff and very little is out would a continued silence be tacit acceptance of the situation? Enabling cake eating?
Because I would like to not get comments like I got about the cell phone bill. Which was we won't have to talk about that soon. Maybe because she thinks the Dec court date will be the end of it. Going to check with my L to clarify what happens or is expected then.
Lawyer said Dec court date is a status update. Checking on the cat herding...
Maybe W thinks this will move faster than it is actually moving. Maybe I have more time than I thought I did. Don't waste it Turbine.
So since she has a lot of stuff and very little is out would a continued silence be tacit acceptance of the situation? Enabling cake eating?
No I don't think you are enabling her by not kicking her out. I mean legally you can't kick her out, you can only ask her to leave and if she chooses not to there's nothing you can legally do about it. Enabling cake-eating is more along the lines of doting on her, appeasing her, doing things for her and generally acting like everything is normal and OK while she carries on with an affair. If you are getting out and GAL'ing and giving her time and space while working on you, then you are not enabling her.
AniotherStander, thanks. MWD brings up stuff and it is brought up here all the time. Some of it is easier to do than others. So often I feel to close to this to be objective. So difficult to not accept all the blame. Kicking myself for not paying attention to her, the MR, all of it.
Yeah, I feel overwhelmed. Dealing with my sister and her drama. Thanks Mom for having me be trustee for her SNT. My sister is all me, me, me. I want. I need. Money doesn't grow on trees. Our Mom made a mistake by taking care of her baby and catering to her. Now we (our aunt, mom's sister, and me) are left with the monster.
W feels overlooked in my parent's estate. W took good care and helped both of them when they were really sick at the end. Does that contribute to how I feel? Absolutely. Denying that would be stupid. Some of my inheritance has been spent on W. Some to cover bills. Some on me. Some on us. Us, like a trip to the Philippines. W didn't seem happy we did that after the fact. Maybe I ruined her chance to show off to her baby sister. That SiL is divorced. Getting advice from her? IDK.
Anyway. Church tonight. Going to meet one of the guys I've known a long time and grab a bite to eat. Little GAL activity.
GAL update. Good chat during dinner. Big meal for the mixed grill this place offers. So leftovers for lunch today. Yum. They have a nice creamy garlic sauce, which I took some for the leftovers. Almost wore it when the top came off the squeeze bottle. Little splatter on me and most all over the food... portion control is shot there.
Anyway when I got home from church, BiL's car was there but nobody was home. Most likely was W and BiL went to church. I pray this is happening. Because in all this mess she is trying to hold onto a solid. With God's blessings and help...
Unreasonable? Maybe? Maybe not. Still a positive, or at least not a negative. Not popping the corks yet. Double down on making changes/improvements to me... firewall the throttle.
Feel like offering an apology to W for all of it. FEEL... if it happens, it will have to be on an up day. Not talking to each other... doesn't feel productive.
Give her the space she asked for. Meanwhile keep working on yourself, getting into amoafwl. GAL
Stay strong T
By the way of apology I don't mean a blubbering, clinging to her knees so she can't walk apology. A simple, quiet, reserved I am sorry what I did to get us here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Reading Gordie's thread. Thread just made the shift to the MLC forum. Whole lot of information in his story. Glad this was recommended for multiple reasons. Not just his narrative but the input and interaction with others.
Someone recommended read and comment on other threads. Group support... yup. So I will in hopes of being more supportive of this community. Formal submission for citizenship if you were to call it that. (informal?)
Gordie is one of the super heroes here. That´s a good read!
Paperwork for the D. Grrr.... got to get mine done and from a quick review of hers there are going to be discrepancies. Bringing that up with my L.
Whiskey Tango... is this just more of the willing to lie, bad advice or from her L?
Just wondering.
Okay. Today youngest D and I went to a Veteran's Day luncheon at Fermi National Lab. Very cool place btw. Guest speaker was a Vietnam War CMoH recipient. Great speech, very personable and talked about the need for unity in this country. How the politicians work for us and the divisions that are being advanced are not to the betterment of the people, just the politicians. After the two of us got to talk with him briefly and shake his hand. AWESOME!!!
Not intended as anything more than a report of today's GAL activity.
S informed me while we were driving around that W wants to have lunch with him tomorrow.
*sigh* Yeah... wish it were with me. Cheeseless tunnel? probably but if it is to be then it will. So if they talk about the sitch or me then that is the topic of conversation. If not then not.
Hey, I know we talk about the no snooping and all. I told S as much that if he shares with her or with me that is up to him. Yeah I am interested. Not going to go fishing. Not chumming the water either. Nothing has been said that they aren't supposed to snoop. Actually it seems to be encouraged. Just not supply them anything.
Am I right?
So S had to cancel on lunch with W, his mom. Rescheduled. So good for him. Maybe good for her too. I don't want her to not have improved relationships with our kids. Is that a double negative or just worded awkwardly? English grrr.... never mind trying to learn W's language... okay one of the 5 she speaks.
Had late breakfast with S, his GF and oldest grandson. Went to a Filipino/American breakfast/lunch place. I'll be back there. With or without W.
Well, its GAE (good and early). Getting to sleep past 2 AM seems to be a problem. Okay. Going back to sleep after that is a problem. Wake up, mind is at redline it seems. Age, stress... IDK. From talking with my Dr and coworkers it seems to be age related as much as stress. Coworkers are older than I am.
Breakfast was good. Not close to home or my D place so trips to there will be infrequent. Did I say how much I hate going into Chicago. No? Well I do for several reasons. Which is a shame because there are great things to do there. Lots of negatives too, at least for me. Save that for another time.
Really questioning the whole GAL etc right now. W is on my mind constantly. Miss her. Hoping she misses me. From what I gather reading here and in the DB/DR book... maybe is as likely as maybe not.
Went to a late Halloween party w/ my S at Saturday night game group house. Was fun. Won the Halloween trivia contest. I know way too much about a whole lot of useless. Would that space be filled with knowledge about W, her language, etc. Guess this is a bottom.
Had a good day w/ the younger D. We went to the various Veteran's Day appreciations. Waitress at Hooter's is going to be off to Marine boot in the spring. D left her contact info in case she wanted to talk or had questions. Once a Marine always a Marine. Very proud of both my Marine daughters. Very proud of all my kids. W had issues with the daughters enlisting. Don't remember any of that reasoning. Not like we could stop them anyway.
Going back and reading the DR, Men are from Mars or 5 Love Lang... I don't know if it helps or not. I read fairly fast and have good retention so subsequent reading goes faster and faster. Putting into practice... Considering how well I feel I am doing with this detaching... really not at all. Conclusion, fault is with what or how I am doing this and not the process. I'd say everyone else is struggling with it too but seem to be making better progress.
Maybe time to rethink a few things... coach or not...
From talking with my Dr and coworkers it seems to be age related as much as stress. Coworkers are older than I am.
I'm 57 and sleep quite well. I think a big part of it is because I work out daily, eat well and don't smoke/drink. I do get stressed out about work and bills and taxes and such but it doesn't really affect my sleep. I did have a lot of trouble sleeping for months after BD though, so that's probably what your issue is.
Really questioning the whole GAL etc right now. W is on my mind constantly. Miss her. Hoping she misses me. From what I gather reading here and in the DB/DR book... maybe is as likely as maybe not.
She probably does, but that doesn't mean she wants to get back together (she doesn't). Maybe later, but not now. Right now her feeling that this is the right thing to do far overpowers her feeling of missing you. What do you mean by "questioning the whole GAL thing right now"? Is it because you're GAL'ing and still thinking about her? GAL isn't a magic pill, it takes a while for it to work. You'll think about her less and less over time until you find yourself not thinking about her at all for long periods of time.
Going back and reading the DR, Men are from Mars or 5 Love Lang... I don't know if it helps or not. I read fairly fast and have good retention so subsequent reading goes faster and faster.
Do the opposite. Read fast the first time to get the broad picture, then slow down the following times and really think about it, meditate on it, and digest it. I think we all like to fancy ourselves fast readers with good retention but in actuality we all miss a lot of substance when we read too quickly.
Considering how well I feel I am doing with this detaching... really not at all. Conclusion, fault is with what or how I am doing this and not the process. I'd say everyone else is struggling with it too but seem to be making better progress.
You joined 3 months ago! When we say this is a marathon and not a sprint, we are not talking about saving your M. We're talking about saving YOU. It doesn't happen overnight, it is a slow, difficult, frustrating process. The number one stumbling block for most people here is a lack of patience. Hey, I get it. Who wants to hurt and suffer for months, no one. But unfortunately that is part of it. When a loved one passes away it takes us a lot of time to grieve and come to acceptance. This is not much different, she is still around but nevertheless you have lost her and you will grieve for a while. Just keep at it and try to understand that things will get better with time, but you can't speed up time!
I've lost her... some of the worst words I have ever heard. I so want to show her, not tell her or force her or anything else, show her this is wrong. I know... she has to reach that conclusion herself. Can't be force or encouraged or nothing. I do love her so much. I'm sure there are others here that are in this position with their S. Not sure what sort of comfort there is in that if any.
Time machine and changes... oh yeah. Like anyone else of that I'm certain.
I hope that she changes her mind about the D and being separated. She doesn't... ever? God, I pray that isn't the case.
The sleep thing has been far longer than this actively has been known. Probably since before my Mom died.
What to do what to do...
I've lost her... some of the worst words I have ever heard.
Sorry, I should have added "for now" to that. I wish I could tell you that you'll reconcile later but I can't. It COULD happen, but it might not happen. I will tell you that if you look at my timeline, it has been a long time since BD and my ex and I get along better now than we have at any other time since BD. All of the anger and resentment and frustration and such that both of us felt is gone. Do we love each other? Yes I think that's still pretty clear. Are we "in love"? No, and I think both of us are completely fine with that (I know I am). But my point is even if you never reconcile, you WILL find peace with that.
I so want to show her, not tell her or force her or anything else, show her this is wrong. I know... she has to reach that conclusion herself. Can't be force or encouraged or nothing.
That's right, and it will take her a long time.
I do love her so much. I'm sure there are others here that are in this position with their S. Not sure what sort of comfort there is in that if any.
She loves you too. She refuses to show it right now, but maybe she will again some day.
I hope that she changes her mind about the D and being separated. She doesn't... ever?
Lots of recons have happened after S and even D. There's no end to hope until you decide there is.
The sleep thing has been far longer than this actively has been known. Probably since before my Mom died.
You might try a sleep clinic if you think it's not BD-related, one of my friends did and they were able to help him. Not getting proper sleep is miserable!
Nice little positivity/hopefulness headshot. Hard to see the light from where we're standing, but good to know that this doesn't last forever.
AnotherStanding, Burned, thanks for the clarification and encouragement. I am not ashamed toadmit I was panicky and felt devastated again. To me she is that important to me.
New Thread:
Feeling lost, scared and wanting to fix this. Pt 3