My H and I have been separated for a little over 3 months, though he did not move out of the house until 6 weeks ago. We had marital problems for a few years with him being emotionally distant. He felt I never made him feel wanted, that we lost our connection, didn't help each other grow, etc. I found out 3 months ago that he was having a year long affair, which he has since ended because she was also married and her husband found out too. They both agreed to end it to "figure things out," though he tells me he doesn't know what will happen with her in the future. He decided he had been so unhappy in our marriage that he needed to move out. All this time he would go back and forth telling me he still had hope for us one day, then the next day when he was frustrated with me begging and pleading for him to come back, he'd tell me he didn't have hope and he was never coming back.
About 3 weeks ago I reached my breaking point. He told me he was filing for divorce (has not done so yet but he may once we finalize the parenting plan). He told me my begging and pleading was making him miserable. At that moment I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't handle his hope one day and no hope the next day. I decided I was no longer going to beg and plead for him to come back.
I stopped all that and also stopped texting or calling him. I still see him and talk to him when we have kid related stuff to discuss, but otherwise, I have changed from the needy person I have been the last few months. It's been hard, but I realized what I was doing wasn't working and it was emotionally draining. I've been enjoying time with friends and really keeping myself busy.
However, he's reacted in a way I did not expect, and I'm not quite sure how to respond to it. At first, I did not hear from him, then he would start texting me random kid related questions that seemed unnecessary. Then, he would show up at my house without telling me, ringing the doorbell with the excuse that he had to get stuff out of the garage.
Then, starting last weekend, when I didn't have the kids and I was out with friends, he would text me at night to tell me something random about the kids (like they were having fun, they were asleep, etc.). But then he would later make a passive aggressive comment like "Have fun tonight. I'm sure you're going to get laid." He continues to do this, including this morning, sending me text messages about how he's sure I'm getting laid, how I have all these men taking me out to dinner, that I'm a liar because I won't admit that I'm having sex. It's bizarre and immature, and he almost seems angry. But when I see him in person he's very kind and sweet and doesn't bring any of this up.
Is this a normal reaction when you do a 180? Has anyone ever experienced this? Is this just jealousy but not necessarily a sign of hope that he's coming around? Is he just acting like this right now because he's not seeing anyone and so is angry that I might possibly be? Right now, when he says these things I tell him I am not getting laid, that I'm just out with friends, etc. I don't want to play games but should I instead tell him that I am? Or should I just not respond at all? I am fearful of making him mad and losing all chances of him coming back so we can repair our marriage. I worry if he thinks I am sleeping around or if I just totally ignore him that he will take it as a sign that I have moved on and so he will too. On the other hand, I wonder if him thinking he may possibly lose me for good will bring about reconciliation.
Posted below is Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read all of the homework, as there is a lot of good information in each of the links.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-64, D32,S31
Im in this situation with W in regard to random calls about kid for nothing. She doesnt want me but doesnt necessarily want anyone else to have me either. Id guess your situation is similar. Im sure a vet will be along soon with better advice than this.
Hi equalzr. Did your W start this behavior after you started doing a 180? Before I started doing it and was begging and pleading for him to come back he was actually encouraging me to date. He even told me to start a Tinder profile and said the idea of me with another man was "hot." He still says this but then he adds on his passive aggressive comments about being sure I'm getting laid. When I tell him I'm not he calls me a liar. The more he acts like this the less I feel like I want to reconcile.
Wow O Wow. Classic projection. I've been there done that and then some. He's having an affair, and it would make him feel better if you did too.
BUT, in person, he's charming and different. Mkay yea. I don't get the wishy washy bull stuff...
He's all over the place b/c of your 180. That's ok. Kind of a positive really. Stay mysterious. He lost the right to knowing what you're doing when he started his affair. So you are out with friend. ALWAYS. What you are doing is no business of his.
Don't antagonize, but you don't have to respond to all his stuff. Sounds like you are busy moving on.
And you're right, him thinking you are moved on will help make it real for him and help decide what he ultimately wants. Wait til Monday, we'll get a few more opinions. You are so strong and wise. I wish I knew right away what you did.
Keep reading, keep on.
Ovrrnbw, you said you’ve been there and done that, was it your Ws response to a 180 too? How did you respond to it and how is it going for you so far?
Hi equalzr. Did your W start this behavior after you started doing a 180? Before I started doing it and was begging and pleading for him to come back he was actually encouraging me to date. He even told me to start a Tinder profile and said the idea of me with another man was "hot." He still says this but then he adds on his passive aggressive comments about being sure I'm getting laid. When I tell him I'm not he calls me a liar. The more he acts like this the less I feel like I want to reconcile.
Yes my W started after 180's and me GAL. Everything they do is about selfishness and easing their guilt. The one thing they do NOT want to do is be confronted with their actions. Dont take anything they do or say seriously, they are NOT being rational or realistic at all. Do not let them make you doubt your own sanity, they are the ones living in lala land.
My W lied to me about everything for a long long time. It took me over a year to realize that yes i contributed to some things in our M that werent as good as they could have been, but what she was doing was 100% on her. I realize now that my W did everything she could to get me to file for a D. I didnt take the bait, because i dont believe in it. She will have to live with what shes done to our family and she will have to take responsibility for D to our S. We both made some mistakes along the way, but W will have to own up to A and D eventually. Sorry to ramble about my sitch.
He only wants you to be with another man to soothe his guilt. Do NOT fall for it. This is his mess, let him lay in it. Take the time you have to become the best cdd1976 you can be.
I thought I was doing fairly well with the 180 but I totally messed up tonight. He’s an avid camper/hiker/mountain climber and I knew he went backpacking this weekend- This evening during his drive back he sent me a random text about something funny, which I was surprised he did. He then asked how our weekend was, and I asked him how backpacking was- I had a moment of weakness and asked who he went with. I asked if he took a woman with him. He said there were women but it was a group. Didn’t make me feel better and I hated myself for asking. He then said he was going to get dinner. Still feeling weak, I asked who he was going with. He told me he wasn’t going on a date. I’m so disappointed in myself. This is something I did often the first three months but I made such strides the last few weeks actin* like I didn’t care what he was doing. I think I was feeling really down tonight and I reverted back to my old ways. I hope I didn’t mess things up too badly.
I haven't been here long and I feel for you. Apparently from personal experience and what I have been told (here) is it happens. You will do that. I have done it and wanting to get to a MR 2.0 is all consuming most times.
My W has said to move on... date... I haven't and have no interest in anyone else in that regard. Although from what I am reading here... I don't think there is either a EA or PA.... I cant be sure anymore...
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Ovrrnbw, you said you’ve been there and done that, was it your Ws response to a 180 too? How did you respond to it and how is it going for you so far?
Yea, they'll throw fits, act like turds, and really test you. They won't believe it. And part of you may not believe it. That's why you have to commit to real, positive changes that will help move you forward and be a better person.
Thanks for the feedback. I read both Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy a few weeks after I found out about the affair and he said he wanted to separate. Unfortunately, I was such an emotional mess the first three months I couldn’t implement it. My mind kept telling me that I had to share my hurt and pain with him and beg him not to leave. Thankfully, something just clicked in my head a few weeks ago. Hopefully it’s not too late.
He has the kids the next two days and I am going out of town. I think he was expecting me to ask him if we could do a family dinner at his place tonight or tomorrow as that’s what we had been doing before I started the 180 (family dinners always only when he has the kids because he’s never willing to sacrifice his free time to have family dinners when I have the kids). But, I have not asked him to get together tonight or tomorrow so he started texting me again this morning, passive aggressively trying to find out what I’m doing tonight and saying again that he’s sure I’m going to get laid. I just ignored him and he said that was fine and he would find someone else to invite over tonigh.Right...Ugh. I don’t know who I married anymore. I almost think I married a college frat boy.
he would later make a passive aggressive comment like "Have fun tonight. I'm sure you're going to get laid." He continues to do this, including this morning, sending me text messages about how he's sure I'm getting laid, how I have all these men taking me out to dinner, that I'm a liar because I won't admit that I'm having sex. It's bizarre and immature, and he almost seems angry. But when I see him in person he's very kind and sweet and doesn't bring any of this up.......but should I instead tell him that I am? Or should I just not respond at all? I am fearful of making him mad....
Never Lie. The Truth will set you free.
Not Responding is best.
After 3-4 messages like this, then:
W:"H, I am sorry that you feel the need to continually accuse me of inappropriate behaviour. The last thing I need to further complicate my life now is dealing with another man."
How immature of him to say that. And it just goes to show you how much internal struggle he is going through. That is why you don't give in, don't respond to that petulant text. Do not put fuel on the fire.
And if he persists, you respond like R2C said. Not in a mad tone.
I agree with you on stopping the cake eating on the family dinners. That is a good move. He needs to get used to the life he is supposedly wanting.
How's the GAL going?
Thank you paulzee.
Ovrrnbw I had an enjoyable evening with my girlfriends last night. Then, at 9 pm I get a text message from him that says "What are you doing? Want to f**k?" OMG. In the three months we've separated he's never said something like that to me. I'm sure it was driving him crazy that he didn't know who I was with and I wasn't texting him begging him to come back or spend time with me. I probably should not have responded but I was afraid he would get angry if I didn't respond so I replied with "No. I'm out with friends." His response was "Too bad. I already have plan B coming over." I rolled my eyes at that one. I'm pretty sure he didn't have a plan B coming over while the kids were sleeping.
His behavior is giving me anxiety. In doing the 180 and GAL I had hoped he'd turn into the kind, loving husband he once was but instead he's turned into a passive aggressive frat boy. Will it change? Will he turn a corner or will he actually just get worse as this continues? I have plans again tonight with friends and I'm bracing for another round of text messages from him.
...I was afraid he would get angry...
Do not let fear control you.
So what if he gets angry. His issue, not yours.
...I was afraid he would get angry...
Do not let fear control you.
So what if he gets angry. His issue, not yours.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fear will cause you to bring about the very thing you fear. Do the right thing. It may or may not make him angry. You can't control that.
Imagine if he came to you and wanted you to help him plot to murder your neighbor. Would you participate? Of course not. Whether or not it made him angry.
He is throwing fits and having a very rough time emotionally. He is trying to temp check, lure you in, hurt you all in the course of a couple text messages. I wouldn't have responded to that, or maybe just say "No". That is disgusting behavior.
Continue to go out and enjoy life with your friends.
It's afternoon now and he just sent me a text message telling me I should come over tonight after my date. Of course, I never said anything to him about a date. I don't have a date tonight, just hanging out with friends. I'm sure he said this just to try to find out what I'm doing tonight. I didn't respond to his text.
I think I'm fearful of making him angry for two reasons. 1) We are separated and he says he plans to file for divorce. Our state has a 90 day waiting period so he said he would file so that it wouldn't happen until after Christmas (because, you know, he's such a nice guy). I don't know if there's still hope that he wouldn't file and so I'm afraid to make him angry and cause him to file now.
2) I was a stay at home mom and did not have a job. My attorney tells me not to find a job right now because if he does file then I can get alimony and then get a job, giving me more income (he makes a lot of money, much more than I ever could even if I worked full time). When he gets angry he makes financial threats, and I fear the threats will get worse and I will have to go through a difficult time fighting him in court.
I realize I can't live my life fearful of making him angry but I just have so much anxiety right now over this. I just wasn't expecting this type of reaction from him.
He spent the rest of the week doing the same thing...texting me with comments about how I'm probably out on a date and/or getting laid. He was drunk Thursday night and sent me a late night text saying he had a random thought and wondered if I slept with an acquaintance that we both knew. I had not and I have no idea why this random thought came to his head.
I dropped off the kids at his place Friday. He gave me a big hug. He asked how my job search was going. While my attorney tells me not to get a job I have been looking, just to see what's out there. He told me not to worry if I don't find one soon because "no matter what happens" he's going to take care of me. He was oddly very kind and sweet.
Then the next day I sent him a text message. I was going camping, and I could not find where he put my hiking backpack. He made a comment about how I was probably going to get laid in my tent (ugh) and then was really rude and unhelpful about where my backpack could possibly be. He text me tonight with some kid related stuff and was cold and distant again. I don't know what's up with his moods. It's draining to try to keep up with him. I think I need to be better at really detaching. I think when I dropped off the kids Friday he could sense that I still wanted to be with him so he reverted back to distancing.
Last night I had the kids. He sent me a text asking if I was going to invite anyone over. Of course I wasn’t. I just said no. I don’t know why he would even ask that.
Today he asked me if I ever get the urge to call a guy late at night to come over just for sex. I said no and he said “Of course, you’re too much of a good girl.” He told me he gets those urges and doesn’t understand why I wouldn’t. Then he said “I guess we’re just different.” I don’t know why he would bring that up. It’s hurtful to me. He did always complain that I was too much of a good girl in bed. I feel like he’s criticizing me to get back at me for being more distant or he’s just really trying to be hurtful because he holds so much resentment against me for making him feel unwanted during our marriage.
I am so tempted to ask him why he is being so hurtful and saying these things but I haven’t. Do I just ignore these comments and questions? I’m trying not to make him angry by ignoring him but I can’t take much more of this. It hurts because I feel like he is a different person from the person I married. He seems like a sex crazed lunatic.
Do I just ignore these comments and questions? I’m trying not to make him angry by ignoring him but I can’t take much more of this. It hurts because I feel like he is a different person from the person I married. He seems like a sex crazed lunatic.
You can set and enforce boundaries. Have you read the boundries thread that is sticky at top of newcomers?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1859179
After 3-4 messages like this, then:
W:"H, I am sorry that you feel the need to continually accuse me of inappropriate behaviour. The last thing I need to further complicate my life now is dealing with another man."
Next inappropriate text he sends you...Send this ^^^^^^^
So in the last three days, his sexual questions and comments have ceased. In fact, he seems more “normal.” I did go out Wednesday night when he had the kids, and he sent me a text at 9 pm asking what I was doing l. I didn’t respond, but he didn’t follow up with anything like “I know your getting laid, etc.” the next morning he sent me a random question about the kids that really wasn’t necessary.
He asked me if I could take the kids next Tuesday night due to a work dinner he had to attend. I said I already had plans. He jokingly asked if it was a date but left it at that.
I’m sensing almost a growing indifference from him. Yeah he’s still curious about what I’m doing but not as jealous. I don’t know why if it’s because he realizes I really am not sleeping with anyone, or that he has no right to be jealous, or maybe he just doesn’t care anymore. I had the kids Tuesday night and I didn’t hear a peep from him, which makes me worry that he’s starting to date someone. I know it doesn’t matter and DB is all about this and I should not care. I just fear he’s going to become so indifferent he will no longer care about our M. Am I still on the right track if I continue on?
I realize I am not getting much feedback. Just journaling here helps but could use advice.
He asked again about having the kids sleep at my house Tuesday because he was trying to coordinate something. I told him again I couldn’t change my Tuesday plans, which involved a dinner with several people planned months ago (though I didn’t say that). I was a little frustrated and he was too. He said it was fine then.
Then, after not bringing it up for a month, he asked when my lawyer would return from vacation so we could finish the parenting plan. I told him she returns at the end of the month, like we had discussed. Then he said he’s filing for divorce once we get my lawyer’s feedback. He probably will but he always threatens that when he’s mad, though I think it’s true this time.
I made the mistake of saying I wish he would be willing to work it it. He said no, not possible. He doesn’t want to go back to an unhappy marriage where he felt he married a business partner who never laughed with him or tried to show interest in him. I told him I understand and I’m sorry he felt that way. I said I know where I went wrong but we were both contributors to our marriage’s failure )I didn’t bring up his affair again). I said I am willing to try and work on things. He didn’t say anything more and just started “joking” and asking about who I’m going out with Tuesday.
I’m scared he really will file for divorce soon and that he really never wants to try to make our marriage work. Should I give up or just try harder to 180 and GAL and detach? I realize I haven’t been 100% great at it.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
I realize I am not getting much feedback. Just journaling here helps but could use advice...
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Making positive changes in the way you interact never hurts. DBing is about YOUR personal growth.
H has pointed out POSSIBLE areas of improvement. You decide if you want to make those changes. You can also decide other areas that you want to change. Improve the way you communicate. (if you want)
He doesn’t want to go back to an unhappy marriage where he felt he married a business partner who never laughed with him or tried to show interest in him.
W,"H, I totally agree. I do not want to go back to an unhappy marriage either. I want us both to be happy"
What things do you find interesting in H?
...just started “joking” and asking about who I’m going out with Tuesday.....
Maybe an opportunity to make him laugh.
People laugh as a shock reaction. Who is the most ridiculous person?
Just throwing ideas out.
I’m scared he really will file for divorce soon and that he really never wants to try to make our marriage work. Should I give up or just try harder to 180 and GAL and detach? I realize I haven’t been 100% great at it.
Okay lets talk about the first sentence. Why are you scared he will file for D? D doesnt' have to be the end. Many here like to say it is just a step in the process. Getting D'd doesn't mean you have any less, or more, chance at R. Also, whether her files for D has nothing to do with whether or not "he really never wants to try to make our marriage work". You need to decouple those things in your mind. He may file or not file. And he may want to try or he may not. Neither is mutually exclusive of the other.
More importantly, why do you want to remain married to someone that never want to try to make our marriage work.
How about wording it like this instead:
"I sure hope he wants to make our marriage work. But if he doesn't, he needs to file for D so that we both can move on with our lives." Drop the fear. Fear will paralyze you. Fear will bring about the very thing you fear.
Now to answer your question, again they are not mutually exclusive. Yes you should give up, but you should also try harder to 180, GAL, and detach. In fact, the combination of the 4 of those things has the best chance of waking him up. Until you give up, 180, GAL and detach he will know you are his plan B option. Take that option away, it is the best thing you can do to save your marriage.
Thanks Ready2Change and Steve85 for your feedback.
Steve85, you’re right about needing to stop my fear of D. It shouldn’t change anything, and I realized he is using the threat of it to control me. In fact, he’s been acting like he doesn’t care the last few days but I realized he is doing things to temp check me and ensure he still has control. He had the kids yesterday and knew I was going out. In the afternoon he text me and said he locked his car keys in his truck and needed to get the spare from my house. When he was here I could see him peeking in rooms and checking to see if anything changed or if there were signs of a man or someone coming over later. He even asked me questions about my plans but then acted like he didn’t care. I didn’t try to make him jealous but I told him I was going out with girlfriends, which alleviated his fears.
I realized afterwards that yeah I’m GAL and trying to do a 180, but when he asks I tell him about what I’m doing and I shouldn’t. That should remain unknown to him. And I have been DB’ing with the hopes of him changing. I need to do all this for myself. I’ve made a commitment to myself today that my detaching, 180, and GAL is about me and for me. It doesn’t matter what he thinks or how he reacts.
And you’re right about fear, Steve85. My coach tells me that worrying and fearing about things can make it worse and often even make them come true. Positive mindset moving forward.
Thanks for your support.
Right, does he tell you details of what he's doing? Noooooooo.
MWD talks about "acting as if". She says, and many other do too, that if you act the victim than you will be the victim. So you act from a position of strength, and your values, setting aside your fear or desire to control the situation. It's scary, but liberating, to let go of the string and let other people react as they will without us worrying about the outcome.
It's scary, but liberating, to let go of the string and let other people react as they will without us worrying about the outcome.
Well said. But set that as a goal to work toward, not a change that can happen instantly. It's SUPER difficult. But every time you try and you get a little better at it, you feel that much better.
Thanks ovrrnbw and burned. I worry a lot about how he might react to what I say or what I do. I even did that during our marriage. I walked on eggshells fearing he’d get upset or annoyed and look where that got me. I used to be so confident and he had a huge crush on me for years but I wasn’t interested. I feel like during our marriage he became neglectful and almost emotionally abusive that it whittled away at my confidence and strength. I’m not going to let that happen anymore.
I dropped off the kids on Friday. He asked me how my job search was going. I told him about an upcoming interview. He was supportive (of course he wants me to get a job so he doesn’t have to pay all the bills and probably pay less alimony when he files). He told me he knows it’s hard getting back into the work force and “no matter what, I will support you,” so don’t worry. He’s said this to me before but when he gets frustrated he threatens me financially.
He the. Said “I love you,” which he has not said to me in a long time. The last time he said it to me he also said “but not in that way, as the mother of my kids.” This time he didn’t add that part. I started to get hopeful and then he asked what I was doing this weekend. I said just hanging out with friends. He the. Said “That’s too bad, you could have gone camping with me and the kids.” That made me mad. If he had really wanted me to go he would have asked me in advance. I felt like he only said that because I had plans but he didn’t know what the plans were. If I told him I was just sitting on the couch doing nothing all weekend he probably would not have invited me.
The next morning I left my house and he immediately called me and said he needed to come by for a few camping items. I told him I wouldn’t be home but go ahead. Based on my home alarm app, he never came. He was also on Instagram all morning so i don’t know if they ever really went camping. I’m proud of myself for acting like I didn’t care to go camping with them but I’m bothered he didn’t check in on me last night like he’s been doing in the past. If he went camping of course he wouldn’t but if he didn’t then I feel like he’s starting to not care. But, in the end, if I’m really detatching, I shouldn’t care either.
For those of you DB’ing, how many times did you f’up and regress before you actually started doing it successfully? And when is it too late?
I ask because last night I had a friend visiting from out of town so I had our nanny stay with the kids so I could have dinner with her. His house is on the way back to my house. Yeah, I could have taken the longer route and should have, but I didn’t. I passed by his house in my way home at 10 pm and noticed the lights out and his car wasn’t there. I started to let my mind go crazy with thoughts of where he could be and with who. I got home and sent him a random text message related to an unimportant conversation we had the other day. He replied, but not until midnight. Ugh.
I feel like I try to detatch and after a few days of not hearing from him or getting cold text messages from him I go back to pursuing. Then he’s nice again and I find the confidence to detatch again...until he goes silent or cold again. I worry that he will eventually think “Well, haven’t heard from her so she must be done with me and, thus, I’m done with her.” I know I should not care, but how do you stop these thoughts in your head? And we separated 4.5 months ago and he moved out 2.5 months ago. I stopped the begging and pleading 1.5 months ago. When is it too late?
We all make mistakes. Just learn from them. Then they are not mistakes but learning opportunities.
We had a DBer back in the day that we told so many times not to drive past his old house. Guess what, he new better and drove past one morning anyway, followed OM to parking lot, had an altercation and got a restraining order. It is important to not do what you feel like, but rather think about your choices and make the one that logically makes sense.
Yes it doesn’t make sense to drive by. Quite honestly, just because his car isn’t there means nothing. There is Uber, his bike, his motorcycle. I don’t know why I look for it. Then I create the worse case scenario in my head, which does me no good.
Hi cdd
It is so hard not thinking about what they are doing and who they're doing it with. I am a bit further on than you in the separation but still a newbie in Db'g sense, but it does get easier. My demons hit me in the middle of the night when I try and reconcile the conflicting things he has said and come out with "He left in a rush because he has a date". This morning he said he was running late to see the girls because he got home from work late - which I read as "I've had someone over and we got up late". Cheeseless tunnels. I try and not let it get to me.
I read on one of Sandi's threads (she was a WW and if you get a chance read her threads) that after she reconciled with her H he told her about all his suspicions. It turns out he was wrong about 80% of the time.
You will never know, and even if you did (I walked into a club and saw my H with someone else a few weeks ago), there is nothing you can do. They will continue doing whatever they want with little or no regard for the damage they are causing. it is all about them. Save yourself the heartache and the tunnels by not looking for evidence.
Hi Cdd. I make a point of avoiding my H's neighbourhood at all costs. It has occurred to me on more than a number of occasions to drive by his place and check up on him (he is only about 7 minutes from our house and 3 minutes from my work) but I know that no good could possibly come of it. I, too, create scenarios in my head despite no evidence of an OW and my H being adamant that he is not looking for anyone. Even this past weekend... when he was at a conference that he has gone to every year for the past six years...I found myself thinking about what he was doing and with whom. It was ridiculous. When I saw him yesterday and asked how it was, he said it was "good" and that he basically hung out with his mentor (an older, married man) and didn't really interact too much with anyone else. Now I know he wouldn't have said anything to me if there had been something untoward going on but he was very matter-of-fact and maintained eye contact with me so I'm reasonably confident he did what he said he did. I know I can never know anything for sure but I choose to believe him in this instance because it is better for me.
The other reason I stay away from his neighbourhood is because that place he lives at reminds me that a big part of his life no longer includes me. There are no memories of us there and there will never be memories of us there. So...I don't need to go there and I certainly don't need to experience those feelings. This situation is hard enough as it is without me doing things purposely that I know will just make me feel bad and cause my mind to create all kinds of unhelpful scenarios. So yes, definitely take the long way if it means you can avoid putting yourself through the mental torture routine.
FS - How do I find Sandi's threads. I would be really interested in reading them.
For those of you DB’ing, how many times did you f’up and regress before you actually started doing it successfully? And when is it too late?
I did 12 times. It's too late after 11. No I'm kidding. All LBS's have these thoughts initially, but what they don't realize is their spouse is already gone NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. This isn't a game of figuring out what magic trick you need to perform to get him back. It's understanding that there is no magic trick. Like in the Matrix, how do you bend the spoon? By first understanding that there is no spoon. There is no marriage, it's gone. Maybe it says there's one on a piece of paper somewhere, but clearly once you separate the M is already gone. How do you get it back? By understanding it's gone, THEN it might bend. So you let it go, you get out and GAL and quit doing drive-bys and get about the business of being amazing and awesome. You leave him alone to make his mistakes and learn to regret them and learn to miss you.
I feel like I try to detatch and after a few days of not hearing from him or getting cold text messages from him I go back to pursuing.
That's soooo not detachment. Detaching isn't a temporary condition. You're just leaving him alone a little while, hoping and praying it'll have an impact on him and he'll come running back. You still have an iron grip on the rope. It's OK, we all go through that early on. Just keep moving forward. Detachment (dropping the rope) comes with time and speeds up through GAL.
Thanks for all the feedback. It's really helpful.
I'm doing horribly today. It's the first time in awhile (like maybe in the last month and a half) that I've actually cried. I feel like I'm back where I started. Two things that caused it:
1. A good friend of mine met up with him for a drink. All three of us had actually been friends. In fact, she met him the same time I met him years ago. She told me in advance she was meeting with him. She's thinking about moving from her company to his company and wanted to get some intel from him. It's the first time she's talked to him since this all happened. She told him she knew about him cheating but pretended like she didn't know all the dirty details I had given her. After they met she called me and told me he pretty much gave her the standard messaging he's been giving everyone - yeah, he's sorry he cheated but he was so unhappy in the marriage. However, she told me that she asked him about dating, and he didn't say he was but said there's no shortage of women to date in this city and, compared to the city we used to live in, the women here are not just all about how they look and fashion, they're also athletic and not afraid to get their hands dirty. I felt like that was a dig against me because he used to complain that I didn't like to do the same sports and activities that he liked...which I feel like he always sold me short. It was hard to do the stuff he liked together given we had two little kids.
2. He sent me a text message today inviting me to come watch the World Series at his place while he has the kids. I contemplated going but didn't give him a yes or a no because I know that's cake eating. Then a couple hours later he said never mind. I was no longer invited. That he was just "teasing" me. I got upset, even though I hadn't accepted his invitation yet. I said that's mean to extend an invite and then take it back. He said he was sorry. That he wanted me to come over but he's "conflicted and handling it poorly." I didn't respond but started obsessing over the "conflicted" part, wondering if he means he's conflicted between me and someone else. Ugh.
You're right AnotherStander, I'm not detaching. I wouldn't be feeling like this if I was. I'm having such a hard time doing so. I get angry and then tell myself I'm going to detach and move on, then I get pulled back in or I guess I pull myself back in.
Set a boundary with your friend:
When you tell me things about H.....
I feel....
I want you to stop.
If you continue, I will have to decide if I want to be friends with you.
So yesterday I felt ok. After hearing him say he felt conflicted I had more conviction in myself to continue moving on. It just made me feel more secure that he still has a bit of himself that sometimes feels he wants this marriage, however small it may be. I went out to dinner and a musical with my friends. At 8 pm I had this urge to text him just to ask what he and the kids were up to but I stopped myself. An hour later, he actually sent me a text to see what I was up to. I didn’t answer.
Today he sent me an email replying to one I sent him the other day related to our parenting plan (we’re doing 50/50 custody). We’ve been working on it since July. He says he’s going to file for divorce once it’s finalized so I’m dreading it. Though my lawyer doesn’t understand why he doesn’t just file for divorce now. I’m trying to include right of first refusal in the plan for when the on duty parent needs a babysitter (the on duty parent would have to ask the other parent first). He’s fighting me on this. I think he doesn’t want me to know his business - when he’s going out at night and needing a babysitter. It’s stressing me out and I haven’t responded to his email yet.
I’m going to see him in about an hour because there’s a Halloween event at my son’s school. He says he can only stay for an hour since he has plans and I have the kids this weekend. It’s going to kill me wondering what he’s going to do tonight. I wish I could figure out how to truly detach.
Why do you want the right if first refusal thing?
I’ve talked to several divorced friends who have it in their parenting plan. For me, I want to spend as much time as possible with my kids. This 50/50 share breaks my heart. S is 5 and D is 2. If there’s a day or night he has them but has plans and needs a babysitter, I would rather have the option to spend time with them if I’m available.
Do you think that’s unnecessary? I realize it could cause angst in that I’d then wonder “Where is he going” or “What is he doing?”
I think from his perspective it sounds like a control method. You'll always know when he is "out". And he had to contact you a lot more than he otherwise would. I've never heard of it so I wanted to hear the motivations behind it.
Even if your intentions are pure, and it sounds like they are, from his view they might not seem that way.
You should definitely get right of first refusal. My wife actually had that put into our parenting plan....and she is the one that has violated it on at least 5 occasions that I’m aware. She has even reached out to my side of the family without giving me the courtesy. I never ask her business, but if there’s an opportunity to spend time with my son I want to ensure I get that since I’m losing out on 50% of his childhood.
It has also played into my favor in the eyes of appearing as the most stable parent.
The more imbalanced the parenting split the more I advocate first right of refusal. I also advocate it if the other spouse will fluff off their parenting responsibilities.
It is a double edge sword.
After the my divorce, My mom and dad (The Grandparents) were able to spend more time with my kids.
I get what you mean Steve85. That’s definitely not why I want it, but I could see how he might think it is. Thanks for your feedback EZdozit and Ready2Change. I hadn’t thought of it but then my divorced friend mentioned it. Then a week later he told me he was going to hire a babysitter for times when he has the kids but can’t take care of them for some reason. Normally our nanny would do it but it’s hard for her to take late nights because she has kids of her own. After he told me this, I thought, if I’m available I would do it.
I had the kids all weekend and I totally failed with my efforts to detach. I was so bothered wondering what he might be doing this weekend and with who. I sent him a couple texts on Saturday. Just random crap. He responded. Nothing big but I wish I hadn’t done it.
I went out Saturday and Monday night when I didn’t have the kids. He sent me text messages late in the evening on both nights asking what I was up to. I said I was out with friends.
Today we both volunteered at my son’s Halloween party at school. After it was done, he sent me a text saying I looked really good and was definitely a MILF 🙄. I joked with him and said thanks. Then literally two minutes later he said “On another note...” and proceeded to ask me my lawyer’s contact info so his lawyer could finalize the parenting plan. Then he asked if I’d taken the state mandated parenting class that’s required within 60 days of filing for divorce (which he hasn’t done yet but says he will once the parenting plan is finalized). Then he pressures me about how slow my job search is going, even though a week and a half ago he sweetly told me not to worry and he was still here to support me until I found a job. He was nice about all this, but how do you go from flirting with me and calling me a MILF to parenting plan/divorce details in the span of two minutes? Ugh.
It is simple. He caught himself, and felt like he was giving you false hope, so he switched back to making sure you were aware and knew that he wasn't giving up on the D. This is very very common. Early on in my sitch my W would do the same thing. We'd have a nice time together, the next day she wanted to make sure the day before had changed nothing.
cdd, you will continue to struggle by continuing to put so much focus on what he says and does. Work on detaching.....whether he says he loves you and wants to be with you forever, or says he was the D finalized yesterday, you need to be steady and sure. Not excited by the first one, not devastated by the second. I see you are doing GAL activities, but notice how he temp checks you while you are? "What are you doing?" IGNORE THAT. It is none of his freaking business!! He is firing you as his W, yet then wants to track you like a H would track a W. DO NOT LET HIM DO THAT. Decisions have consequences, make he feel those consequences.
If you feel you have to respond then how about "NOYB". Personally I think you should just ignore it. Later you when he says "You didn't answer my text." You can say "Sorry, I was busy."
cdd, have you read DB/DR? Because I am not seeing a lot of DB/DR techniques in your interactions. Flirting?!? Why would you flirt back with him?
Remember this rule on texting: Texts that are not questions: DO NOT RESPOND. Texts that are questions, answer on your own time (IE not right away), and then in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
STOP BEING AT HIS BECKON CALL.
Thanks for your feedback Steve85. I have read DB and DR. I successfully implement the strategies for a week or two and then fall back into things. The only thing I've been able to stop doing successfully for the last month and a half is begging and pleading and wanting to talk about the relationship. But detaching, reaching out to him, responding to him...it's been hard.
I mentioned in a previous post that I was scared to make him mad, that it would make him decide to file for divorce for sure. But in reality, he may or may not do it whether or not I make him mad. And you had said I need to stop being afraid of making him mad and stop being afraid that he will file for divorce.
I have a coach who has been telling me to lose my fear of losing him. I know I need to try harder.
Had an emotional night last night. I was paying the bills and when paying the cell phone bills I saw he had talked to his lawyer yesterday afternoon. I know, DB rule - don’t look at phone records. I immediately picked up DR and reread the whole book again.
Oddly, he text me last night asking what I was up to. I had the kids so that was odd. I didn’t respond.
I’m having an emotional day feeling divorce filing is imminent. Any words of encouragement and strength to move forward and detach, even if they are harsh words as I feel I need a good jolt/kick to get my senses back, would be appreciated. Trying to think positive and focus on me.
Remember, D is not the end of the world. Many couples D, but end up back together. Just keep DBing. Whether he comes back, files, or even if the D goes all the way through to finalization, KEEP DBing!
You got this cdd. Remember, HE doesn't DESERVE YOU! He should be begging you to take him back. He should be hoping YOU don't file for D.
Flip the script. The worst thing you could do right now is to let him back too easily.
Thanks for the words of encouragement Steve85. I needed that.
I realize now that my W did everything she could to get me to file for a D. I didnt take the bait, because i dont believe in it. She will have to live with what shes done to our family and she will have to take responsibility for D to our S.
This is something I have the hardest with. I am realizing the same in my sitch, that my H really just wants me to file to make his own guilt lessen.
I am conflicted with that because I feel like if I filed for D, it would be the ultimate 180. However, I don't actually want the D, and I feel like it just gives him what he wants then...but if he doesn't seem to be basing any other behavior on the legal fact of us being married or not, then I wonder if I should care either and at least D just to avoid further financial/legal complications down the road. But then I go back the other way again, thinking that under no circumstances should I do it because it's HIS choices that he needs to execute.
My H has even agreed to pay me money directly for his portion of things that I'm still paying, since legally I can't just kick him off of some accounts (at least not without high risk to me). And I'm sitting here trying to imagine, for how long is H going to be willing to pay money directly to his still-W that he's no longer living with? I mean, any person who knows he's A) still married, and B) paying money to me because we're still married and haven't separated finances, would have to be crazy not to raise an eyebrow.
But, the crazy land of la la is indeed real. There is absolute proof of that!
Hi TJT. There are days I want to file because he wouldn’t expect it from me so I know what you mean. At the same time, I don’t want to D and I wouldn’t be surprised if he threw it in my face later and say “Well you’re the one who filed.”
I read your post and your sitch is different than mine in that I am not working (I worked part time as a consultant and my contract happened to end the same time I found out about the OW and we separated), and he makes so much more money than I would working full time. I feel like the only reason he’s not filing is because he’s waiting for me to get a full time job so he doesn’t have to pay a lot in alimony.
I do think for my H he feels like he can’t fully detach from me unless he files for D. He still checks up on me and acts jealous, and I think he goes back and forth and doesn’t like feeling like he’s not in control of things. He also said a few months ago that he just wants to find someone new and start over. I’m sure he knows his chances of finding someone new to date seriously, whether it’s a new woman or the OW divorces her husband too and starts things up with my H again, is much easier if he’s D vs just separated. So I’m sure that’s a motivating factor.
Tonight I dropped the kids off at his place. I tried not to say too much but he could read my face and asked what was wrong. I said I was fine and tried to leave. Really I was just anxious and emotional from the thought of impending D. He hugged me and told me that he knows I’m stressed about finding a job. He said “I’m here. I’m not going anywhere. You’re the mother of my children and I love you. And I mean that.” I wanted to laugh in his face and say “Are you f*#@ing kidding me. You’re not going anywhere? So moving yourself and all your things out of the house and planning to file divorce means you’re still here for me just because you’re still paying the bills...our bills?!?!” Unbelievable. I guess that’s how he makes himself feel less guilty and positions himself as the “good guy.” I didn’t say anything but afterwards I felt so angry. I guess it was good because it motivated me more to “flip the script” as Steve85 said.
If anyone is reading right now, could really use your advice. He just sent me a text message and said he wants to talk to me tonight. He said "We need to be separate. Move on. I want to move towards divorce and I want to talk to you about how you want to do that. We can file or we can mediate. My lawyer says mediate if we can. I am happy to do that. But I want your input and will go whatever way you want. We have mediated well with the kids. I like our plan. We partnered well and that is working."
I am a mess right now. I know there is nothing I can do. People say I should just say "ok," but I feel like there's so much I want to say to him to get him to change his mind.
cdd,
That's a tough message to receive. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.
It's a bit much for him to send you a message like that out of the blue and expect you to have "that" talk the same day. It's completely normal to be a mess after receiving that. I would simply respond that you need a little time to think and that you will get back to him with a day/time you can talk. Do it on your terms, not his.
Hang in there.
Ok this may sound harsh but it is not my intent. Forget it, there is probably nothing you can say to change his mind. Trying to change my W mind was/is like trying to stop a charging bull, you are just going to get run over. DB is probably the best way to save yourself and any chance for a R with H either pre- or post-D. It really sux but that's the way the chips fall.
We went the mediator route. While I am against D, I felt the mediator route was the best damage control. Our mediator was also a L. He told me in my private interview that I don't have to do this. I don't have to meditate, I don't have to participate in the D. Cdd just remember it takes 2 to M but only one to D so if H is going to drag you into it you have to weigh your options and do what's best for you.
Good luck, I will say a prayer for you.
Thank you. I did meet up with him in the evening after he put the kids to bed (he lives a quarter mile from me).
He said, as in his text, that we could mediate and then file. Or, we could file and go to court. He said he wasn’t going to screw me over, that I’m going to get at least 50% of the house and other assets, alimony, child support, etc. He said he told his lawyer he values getting it done right and amicably over getting it done fast. I told him I need to think about things and talk to my lawyer and I would get back to him.
I probably should have left it at that but I just felt I had to say more. I told him I don’t want a divorce. That we made a commitment and I’m not quitting. I validated all his reasons for leaving and said I understood where I went wrong and apologized for my part, but I said know we both went wrong in this relationship. He apologized too but said he felt we already tried to make it work, which I disagreed with in that it took him 3 years to tell me how unhappy he was and then another year to explain why, but at that point, the affair had already started. He still stands by his belief that he tried so hard to communicate.
He said that I seem to think he wants the single life or that he doesn’t want to be a full time husband and dad, which he said makes him angry. He said he never wanted to be divorced but that it’s too late for us because he loves me but not as a spouse, though he is still very attracted to me. In the early days of our separation he used to say that he’d probably end up losing me to someone and he’d regret it. I said that to him last night and instead of saying he would he said “I know you think that.”
He then brought up me and other men. He really believes I’m seeing other men because I go out a lot. In his mind, I guess if he would do it then of course wouldn’t I too? He said he’s been waiting “for the other shoe to drop.” I asked what he meant and he said he’s expecting I’ll soon say something like “I have a boyfriend and he’s moving in,” which made me wonder if his interest in filing for divorce got spurred by his fear of the tables being turned. Again I told him I wasn’t sleeping with other men , which he then criticized me and said “Why not? It’s like you’re asexual.” That ties into his crticisms of me being boring in bed.
I didn’t ask what was going on with the OW and if he still talks to her or if she’s reconciled with herH. I didn’t ask if there was a new OW. I don’t feel like he is seeing someone because he had. Den so focused and jealous about what I was doing. Then again, though I had a feeling, I didn’t realize he was having an affair for a year. My Spidey senses are obviously off.
I’ve always felt he was having an MLC, but during this conversation I started to think that maybe he wasn’t. Maybe he just didn’t want to be with me anymore.
When he first moved out he said he still had hope. There were days where he’d say he probably would come back. That in the short term he wasn’t coming back but long term, who knows. Last night he agreed with me when I said no one knows what will happen in the future, but he also said he is never coming back. My heart hurts but I also partly feel I am better off. He didn’t treat me well. That I’m just scared of being on my own so I coming to the known.
I know D doesn’t mean it’s totally over, and I have a few months before it’s finalized. I just feel like maybe I’m delusional thinking there is still hope. In the end, detaching and giving up are probably the best things to do.
Understand all your legal rights. Understand the tax consequence to the value of things.
Agree to mediation. (I would do it Pro Se)
You can mediate over multiple sessions. You can defer the mediation.
PLEASE USE THESE WORDS:
"I need time to process what you have said"
"I need time to review what you are proposing"
"I am still working on that"
"I need time to bla bla bla"
This should have been your answer:
"I am busy tonight , so meeting tonight does not work for me. I will review my schedule and let you know a good time."
I woke up this morning with that anxious feeling and my heart racing. I used to wake up like this the first three months back in June, July and August. If stopped in September when I was starting to feel stronger and started a 180. Now it’s back.
My mind goes back and forth between thinking I want to be with him and I don’t want to be with him because he didn’t treat me well. That what I’m missing is the comfort of what I knew and having someone, anyone around. What I’m fearing is the unknown.
I didn’t contact him via text yesterday. I did, in the afternoon, send him an email with our nanny’s updated schedule, which he had been expecting. I told him our nanny might take the kids Saturday night when it’s my night with the kids because her daughter wants to take them to Disney on Ice for her birthday. Given that, I wasn’t going to wait around while they went and would likely attend a banquet that would bring me home late. Thus, the kids would sleep at her house (our parenting plan requires we inform the other parent if the kids are sleeping at someone else’s house). He replied “The kids are spending a lot of time at her house. I would take them but I’m going out of town this weekend.” His judgemental comment about the kids spending a lot of time at their nanny’s house irked me because it’s really not true. I wondered if me mentioning a banquet I was attending spurred it. His comment that he’s going out of town stirred the “Where is he going and with who?” thoughts in my head. I did not reply or react, though, and left it at that.
Someone tell me that D isn’t the end. Anyone have or heard of R stories after divorce or during the divorce process?
So I got some possibly hopeful feedback from him today...Maybe it's not hopeful, I don't know. But I was surprised by his answer.
As you may recall, he said he wanted to know if I wanted to mediate and then file or he'll just file and we go to court. I told him I need to talk to my lawyer. I have a call with her tomorrow. However, a few months ago, my lawyer had brought up legal separation. I didn't bring it up to him then but I decided to do so today. I told him that it's an option instead of divorce. That I realize it wouldn't be forever but that divorce wasn't what I wanted. I said legal separation would allow us to have a judge sign off on our parenting plan (we have it, it's just not signed) and for us to formalize financial plan. I thought he would say no, that he just wanted a divorce.
He replied and said he's open to it "as a first step." Ok...maybe that comment wasn't as hopeful. Not sure if he means as a first step to help get me to being ok with divorce, but anyhow. He said he had never heard of legal separation and really what he's looking for is for us to formalize the finances because he feels us having two households right now we are burning through money. I didn't say this but my thought was, we'd still be spending the same amount if we formalize the financial plan because we still have the mortgage and his rental and I still am not working. But anyhow. I did not expect him to say he was open to it yet he did.
Five minutes later he said that he was researching online and wasn't sure legal separation would be a good idea because I'd still be on his health plan, we'd file taxes together, etc. But he said he would talk to his lawyer about it. So I don't know what mindset his lawyer has on legal separation, but I think whatever his lawyer recommends he'll probably go with.
Anyhow, I thought it was hopeful that he wasn't absolutely dead set on divorce. Though some may say I'm just prolonging the inevitable and it doesn't necessarily mean that divorce isn't the end game for him. But still. I guess it helps me psychologically.
Hi there cdd. I haven't posted to you before, I tend to hang out in the MLC section as I've been at this for a couple years now. I just spent a little time and read up on your situation. Your H is really giving you the run around. My W had me up and down too.
I'd like to first say that it DOES sound like your H is having a mid life melt down. His actions are not normal and people don't just do this kind of thing. I don't think he just fell out of love with you. You did not break him, therefor you can not fix him. This is all his stuff he has to own. As much as you love him, you do not want him as he is. You want what he was, or what he may become, but you do not want him as he is right now. He doesn't deserve you right now. Even if there was a part you played that you could have been better at, you are human. Not one of us is perfect and neither are any of our relationships. It is not and never was your fault for the decisions he made and is still making.
Detaching is hard. I read so much about it and I could tell you everything there was to know, but I couldn't do it. I faked it, but it was a real struggle to actually get there. You need to cut yourself some slack in that regard. Detaching is something that you need to do for your own healing, not to get any kind of reaction from your H. I don't know how many times I heard that, but I was still doing it to initiate change in W. You will stumble in this, but no 1 thing you do is going to break the whole thing. You make mistakes and learn from them and adjust. Your goal right now needs to be to become stronger again and heal from all that has happened. You are going to have a hard time with that while being so focused on your H. You love him. You know that, I know that, he knows that. Rest assured that he knows you love him and don't want a D...so let go of that in your head and focus on you and the kids. He will kick and scream at times, and he will be loving at times. You may get a little distant and that may cause him to be angry...so what. He needs to go through this and nothing you are going to do it going to stop it.
The marriage you knew and the relationship you had with H is over. A new one may develop, and that might be a good thing, but he killed the relationship and marriage. That is not on you, but it is something that we all have to learn to accept. Lots of MLCers initiate divorce only to never go through with it. Others talk about it but never actually file. Some of them do go through with it, but then reconcile later. And then there are some that actually go through with it and they stay divorced. From what I've read, it seems like the highest percentage of results in the MLC world is the MLC spouse that eventually comes out of the tunnel and wants to reconcile, but the LBS has moved on and doesn't want to anymore. That means that we often end up making the final decision. As for him not being dead set on divorce. No, I imagine not. I am willing to bet he isn't sure of ANYTHING. Thats the problem with people in MLC, they have no idea what they want, they just know they aren't happy and are trying to fix that. The problem is that they search externally for that happiness when its really something missing from inside of them.
There are a few threads on this board that I end up reading over and over that really help me gain perspective. There was a poster named Stayed who reconciled with her H after some time. At some point she had him write a letter which is still posted. If you haven'tread it, you should. Also, check out Amy C's posts too. I believe those are listed in th welcome post you get after your first post. Also, Happy_again. He was a MLCer that came to the boards here and posted to people. His posts are interesting to read too as it really gives a good look in to the mindset of a person in MLC. You can find his if you google "happy agains old posts".
Sorry to have hijacked your thread a bit. I get a little long winded sometimes. I hope you are having a good day today.
Thanks sjohns6. I really appreciate the feedback. I do actually think my H is going through an early mid-life crisis (he's 38). I didn't mention in my introductory post that when things got really bad between us, about three years ago, he started going to the gym, losing weight, buying new/stylish clothes, buying new underwear, trimming his chest hair, got a tattoo, and bought a motorcycle. If that's not typical MLC, I don't know what is.
I've read Stayed's husband's letter. It was really helpful. I'll check out the other posts.
Sometimes I want to kick myself because I feel like I had the opportunity to really detach and do a 180 and I got caught in his game. In September when I stopped the begging and pleading, I really should have also cut off communication with him. But him going back and forth with me, acting jealous, then acting nice and asking me to come over for family dinner, pulled me back in every week. I was afraid to ignore him or say no, thinking he'd get angry and file for divorce. Well...guess it didn't stop him because now we're on the brink of it.
I'm struggling so much these last few weeks. I think I'm even more disappointed because I thought I was in a better place back in September. I don't think I really felt the reality of the situation until now. So now I truly feel it could be the end and I'm having a hard time detaching and doing the wrong things.
Wednesday night he had the kids. He said he was going to have a dinner party with several people - men and women - while the kids were there. It made me jealous. Then, I had a call with my lawyer about what path to take - legal separation vs divorce, mediation vs court. I was supposed to call him after to discuss my decision but I was too emotional. I sent him a text and said I'm not in a good place right now and want to talk to tomorrow. He replied with "The kids love you and I love you too." Ugh. Later that night he started sending me text messages asking how I was doing. I didn't respond, which is not typical of me, so he called me. I didn't answer. He started to get worried and sent me a frantic text asking me to respond. I waited until later in the evening and just told him I was fine and just needed my space.
Yesterday evening I went over to his house to discuss finances and divorce. He made dinner, which I wasn't expecting, because the other day he said we could talk for 30 minutes and then I could go. He put off having the discussion until after dinner and the kids were asleep. He was surprisingly understanding about the finances. He tends to be so sweet and loving in person vs over the phone. I thought he was going to flip a lid because the other day he sent me an angry email about how we're spending too much money as two households and wanted to know where all the money was going. He said he knows we have a lot of expenses and I'm trying to get a job so he understands. At the same time, he said that's the reason why we need to sell the house, because it's too expensive. I didn't show my emotions but it hurt to hear that he's so ready to let go of our home. I then told him my decision was to legally separate and I'm open to mediation first. I asked if he talked to his lawyer about legal separation vs divorce and he said not yet, which I was surprised by since he had been pushing me to make a decision. He also told me he loved me several times but would often add "You're the mother of my children." I feel like he always has to qualify it with that so I don't think he's "in love" with me.
He also slipped and told me that he had his guy friend over for dinner last night. I kind of chuckled to myself because he forgot that he told me he was having "men and women" over. I realized he was just trying to make me jealous.
I was getting tired, and he told me to come upstairs with him. I could sleep over since I was tired and he'd "keep me warm." Ok, I'm not a fool and I knew where this would lead. So I was weak and I went upstairs and we slept together. He said really sweet things but, at the same time, he said it again "I can have you whenever I want." He also said a few times "You're still mine you know." He also said that even though he's been accusing me of being with other men, he knows that I'm too much of a good girl and I'm actually not. He said he doesn't actually believe it...so weird.
I left early in the morning before the kids woke up. I have the kids this weekend and he's going out of town. It kills me not knowing where he's going and if he's going with someone. I really do believe he's not seeing anyone right now given the way he behaves with me both when I have the kids and when he has the kids (though yes I realize he probably has slept with other people). But I know he could easily meet someone and then I fear I will be worse off.
I know that what we focus on gets bigger. I know I need to stop focusing on him, on if he's dating someone, on divorce. I need to think positive. I need to detach, 180, continue to GAL, and act as if I am moving on (or actually, move on) but this is so hard. I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.
Anyone out there who has truly done this successfully? Or any of those who are now piecing who can provide words of encouragement?
Thanks for reading my long post. It helps to get it all out.
cdd,
I'm struggling so much these last few weeks. I think I'm even more disappointed because I thought I was in a better place back in September. I don't think I really felt the reality of the situation until now. So now I truly feel it could be the end and I'm having a hard time detaching and doing the wrong things.
Hang in there. There are always going to be ebbs and flows, good days and bad days. That's normal and to be expected. The trick is in not letting yourself get swept away by a tidal wave of emotions on the bad days. As time goes on the number of bad days should decrease, and the lows won't feel as low. Give yourself time. You are still early in this. Also, from my experience, I remember thinking that I was doing fine, but then being blindsided at a certain point by the realization and acceptance that the relationship was really over and being struck by the awareness that there was really no hope. That was about four months into my sitch and it triggered a pretty deep depression that I had to work myself out of. I think it is normal to fool oneself for a while that we are detaching when somewhere deep down we are still clinging to the past. Getting past that is necessary but it isn't pleasant.
I was getting tired, and he told me to come upstairs with him. I could sleep over since I was tired and he'd "keep me warm." Ok, I'm not a fool and I knew where this would lead. So I was weak and I went upstairs and we slept together. He said really sweet things but, at the same time, he said it again "I can have you whenever I want." He also said a few times "You're still mine you know." He also said that even though he's been accusing me of being with other men, he knows that I'm too much of a good girl and I'm actually not. He said he doesn't actually believe it...so weird.
More disturbing than the sleeping together are the comments he made. He couldn't be any more certain of his complete power over you in this situation. I can't imagine any emotionally stable person making comments like that. So long as you keep gifting him that power over you I doubt your sitch will change for the better. Years ago after dating a woman for 6 months I wanted to break up with her, but she resisted. We ended up in bed together (dumb decision on my part) and we fooled around and fooled around until she stopped me and let me know that I wasn't going to get any unless I agreed to keep on dating her. She was trying to use sex to control me, to take back power. I refused, and then refused to take her calls or see her for the next 6 months. It felt so blatantly manipulative that it only reinforced my decision to end the relationship. I wasn't going to give her that power, and neither should you.
I know that what we focus on gets bigger. I know I need to stop focusing on him, on if he's dating someone, on divorce. I need to think positive. I need to detach, 180, continue to GAL, and act as if I am moving on (or actually, move on) but this is so hard. I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.
You clearly know what the right course of action is, but knowing it and acting on it aren't always the same thing. I know how hard it can be to get out of your own head. One of the mantras that has guided me and helped me over the past few months of my sitch is "Action precedes motivation." Just start doing something, even if (perhaps especially) if you don't feel like it, whether it is exercising or going out with friends, or even just taking care of things in the house. More often than not the motivation will come after you have started to act. I can't count the number of times I have forced myself to get off the couch and go to the gym despite not wanting to do anything other than curl up into a ball on the couch, and I almost always end up enjoying myself more once I am there. Getting your body moving will also help quiet your mind and allow you to focus on the present moment rather than scrambling down those cheeseless tunnels.
More disturbing than the sleeping together are the comments he made. He couldn't be any more certain of his complete power over you in this situation. I can't imagine any emotionally stable person making comments like that. So long as you keep gifting him that power over you I doubt your sitch will change for the better.
Exactly what I was thinking, the comments are indeed quite disturbing and kind of scary. It sounds like he may be all about control and manipulation. CDD, I would suggest you take sex off the table. Try to stay away from him as much as possible. When you are around him keep convos strictly business-like. I'm not sure what's going on with him but some alarm bells are going off in the back of my head.
I thought I was 180'ing but I realized yesterday when he told me he doesn't believe I'm with other men that he truly thinks I'm just pining away for him and anything I'm doing right now that's different is really for him, to get his attention and make him jealous. Everyday I wake up and tell myself that starting now it's going to be different. I did that today and I want to commit to it and make these changes for me, not him.
At first GAL is an act and they know it's an act. You've just got to keep doing it until it's no longer an act, it is you getting on with your life. THAT is when they start to worry they'll lose you.
Thanks Davide and AnotherStander. You are right that there is something wrong with him for saying these things in bed. He does have control and manipulation issues. In fact, my therapist (who also served as our marriage counselor last year so knows him a bit) believes he exhibits signs of narcissism.
I never saw these personality traits in him until about three years ago when he told me he was unhappy. At that point, he started telling me a sexual fantasy he wanted to engage in with me that I wasn't comfortable with. The fantasy exhibits his need to want to control me and almost "own" me. His comments in bed last night are things he started saying after we separated and would sleep with each other. He really believes I will always be around for him whenever he wants. I also think that because he holds anger and resentment towards me because he had a crush on me for years before we dated and I could care less about him. Then we married and he felt I settled and never made him feel wanted, the control is almost like revenge for him, like "Now look who wants who." I feel this way because there have been times when he's expressed his anger at me and said "For years you never made me feel wanted, never showed interest in me."
He says other disturbing things to me that I think I've posted before. When he's jealous and accuses me of sleeping with someone he tells me that he's not jealous, that it's hot, and I should take a video and share it with him or come over for "sloppy seconds." It is baffling that a 38 year old man who has a successful career and two kids makes comments like this.
I do realize now looking back at his previous relationship before we married, he was with his girlfriend for seven years and they constantly broke up and got back together. He used to say it was because she was crazy, but I realize now he enjoyed the game of it all and would break up with her, have sex with her, get back together, then do it all over again because she let him and kept coming back.
I try to use all this as motivation to detach - he's expecting me to be around all the time and wants to control and manipulate me. Wouldn't that be a shock to him if I wasn't around anymore and didn't want to be part of his drama.
Anyone out there who has truly done this successfully....who can provide words of encouragement? .
I was successful. But I did not save my marriage. I saved me.
You will be OK either way. Focus on you, what you can control.
Make plans. Look good. Feel good. pamper yourself.
What are you doing for you tonight?
Thanks Ready2Change. I want to get to where you are, though I know I am very early into this. I'm having a friend over tonight who has a child the same age as my son. We're doing a little dinner party with the kids.
I think I just fell off the deep end. I started looking at his cell phone records (we still share an account). I know I shouldn't but I did. He has told me that he still "talks" (I assume that means text because he is not a talking on the phone kind of person unless it's for work) to the woman he had an affair with. He said they talk but he doesn't know if she's gonna work it out with her husband or not.
Well, I saw that last Thursday he called her. It was a one minute call so I assume that means no answer. There have been no other calls to her but it doesn't mean he's not texting with her (he uses Google Hangouts to text so I have no view into most of his text messages). But it just killed me wondering why he would even call her - Was he meeting up with her that night? Was she not answering his texts because they got in a fight about the relationship and that's why the following Sunday he brought up divorce? Was he trying to talk to her about their relationship but she's still trying to work things out with her husband? I thought back to last Thursday and he was actually sending me jealous text messages around 10 pm that night. So I don't know but I think my brain just fried itself thinking about this. I could worry about it until the cows come home but never know the real answer unless he decides to tell me whether or not they are seeing each other again. I'm just done. I can't keep holding on to a man who was a selfish husband, made me unhappy, distanced himself when things got hard, criticized me a lot, and lied and cheated on me. For God's sake, I wasn't even that physically attracted to him when we first started dating and now my deluded mind thinks he's the hottest guy in the world.
I deserve better than this. I WANT better than him.
Thanks Ready2Change. I will take a look.
Thank you all for reading my posts and responding. I know I am probably a frustrating case because I know what I'm supposed to do but I keep doing the opposite. It is still early in the process for me so I ask for your understanding.
Last night I spiraled again. I looked at the cell phone bills again and saw that he had ordered flowers in late August (when he first moved out), early September, and then just last week. My first thought is that he is either seeing the OW again or...he had told me they talk but she's trying to figure things out. I remember when he was courting me he would constantly send me flowers. It's kind of part of his "slow and steady" strategy to get the girl.
I couldn't sleep wondering and so I did what I wasn't supposed to do. I sent him a text message and asked him whether or not he is seeing her. This was his response:
"I'm not doing anything right now. My life is a mess. I have company sometimes. I can date who I want. It's my business. I would appreciate not being accused of things and instead be treated with a little dignity and privacy [SIDE NOTE: This coming from the guy who accuses me of getting "laid" constantly.]. I never give you a hard time about dating. You lie about it all the time [SIDE NOTE: Because I'm not dating and he insists I am]. And it's ok. You can be just as private as I have been. We are separating. Or divorcing or whatever. I'm not doing anything right now. I'm a mess and I just want to move on. I don't want complications. I want to be friends with you and parents. You're amazing at that. I want you to be happy. And I want to be happy. And I want you to want that for me."
In response, I told him that I wanted us to both be happy and that I believed we could work together for a new, happy marriage. He said:
"We can't. We won't. I want a divorce. I will get a separation in order to continue giving you insurance until you are employed. Then I would like to convert to divorce when you are back on your feet. I feel like your behavior looms over my head. That even if I wanted to date her I couldn't. You would text her and inject yourself into my life." He said this because the night I found out about the affair, I found her phone number and sent her angry messages. That was how I reacted. I'm not saying it was right, but that's what I did. I haven't reached out to her since that night I found out.
He continued on with: "I want you to let me go. I've been hoping you would date someone so you would move on. We hurt each other terribly. I'm sorry. Truly desperately sorry. I see you growing. I appreciate it. I'm proud of you. You aren't the same person. I am the same person. Basically. I don't know if that's good or bad. Probably neither. It just is. This process changed you more than it did me. But I think for you that's good. I need to change too. But it's slower. I need the freedom to do that. I'd like you to just genuinely wish me happiness. Find yourself. Find your happiness. I honestly don't think you'll look back. And that matters. It affects me now but that's more a reflection on how I feel about the nature of our relationship [SIDE NOTE: I think this is part of his whole belief that I settled for him and just stuck around because it was comfortable. He truly believes I will easily find someone new and realize I never really wanted to be with him]. Go be happy. I want that for you. You deserve it. And I'll support you."
I responded by saying that neither of us know if we'd look back. He said: "I don't. And I wasn't saying about what I think I'll do. That's my own thought to keep."
Then he said he wanted to be left alone. And then closed out by saying he's going to have an orgy tonight, then said he was kidding, and then he said he can date 24 year olds if he wants to, though it doesn't mean he does. WTF???
After this conversation, I felt even more hopeless about the chances of our marriage working out. He is really in this place where our marriage represents sadness and unhappiness and he feels he wouldn't go back. And, I do believe he wants to try to see if things work with the OW. I think he feels he is a mess right now because that's not yet happening for him.
However, him saying that this process has changed me more than him and that he needs to change too but hasn't, made me realize that if we got back together right now, it would be the same old thing. There are many things he needs to change about himself, and I don't know that he truly realizes what they are. Thus, as he's said, he has not change. We are still early into this and there's a lot of soul searching he needs to do, though it looks like he's more focused on finding someone new and moving on, that he thinks that's how he will be happy.
I don't know what to make of our conversation. It feels hopeless to me, like he is pretty much saying he is never coming back. I know I need to not care and just detach. It is so very hard.
Every interaction is a learning experience. What did you learn?
I guess I learned that I don't feel any better after asking him. It's like, ok, he told me he's not seeing her. How do I know he's telling me the truth? Doesn't really make me feel better. Then he says other things that I start to think about. It's an endless cycle.
I’m sorry cdd. Honestly...if I pushed my H, I’m pretty sure that is exactly what he would say to me. He really does believe right now that there is no going back. I agree with that. I don’t want to go back. But I do want to move on... from the lies, from the pain, from the lonely nights. I want to find me again and make me responsible for my happiness and not him. I suspect my H is at least dating despite him telling me he is not. He may not have been when he told me that but that was a few weeks ago. I would not be remotely surprised if he was on a few dating websites and checking things out. Sadly...he still searches for answers outside of himself. He has stopped counselling. He shows no signs of wanting to return. I am slowly coming to terms with the idea that self exploration is not really on his menu right now. I will have to be happy with having it on mine. I think, in the long run, I will be better off for it and he will be... playing the same tune with a different band.
Anyway...I know exactly how you feel. I know this is so incredibly hard. It is excruciating. But it can’t stay that way if you don’t let it. This really is an opportunity. I know it is very difficult to see it that way right now but it is. In a year, you will look back and you will feel differently. Take this time to ask yourself what YOU want and who YOU want to be and how YOU want to be treated. If I truly look at my situation with an objective eye, my H treated me with a disrespect and coldness that I could NEVER, EVER even get close to matching. That is a sobering thought. KNOW YOUR WORTH. If you don’t, no one else will either... least of all your H. Keep making your changes but do it for you. Let him deal with his messy life.
(((HUGS)))
Thanks DejaVu6. I found it so interesting that he acknowledged the changes I’ve made through this ordeal and said he probably needs to change too but it is a slower process. I actually wonder what he thinks he needs to change because he has only blamed me for everything that went wrong. And of course it’s slower, he’s not even seeing a therapist, just trying to jump into a new relationship so he can “move on.”
I feel the same way you do about my marriage. People would ask me if I was happy (this was before the BD). I said “well, I’m only unhappy because he’s unhappy. If he was happy, I’d be happy.” Huh? Short answer is “No. I was not happy.” Like you, he treated me disrespectfully. Like a narcissist, he would build me up with compliments about my looks and what a great mother I was, but then he would cut me down with passive aggressive comments about how boring I was, or how dumb something I liked was. It was horrible. I felt he was so angry at me for not making him feel wanted he had to cut me down constantly. Even now he’s sweet one minute and then tells me I’m “so boring.” I deserve better.
I feel the same way you do about my marriage. People would ask me if I was happy (this was before the BD). I said “well, I’m only unhappy because he’s unhappy. If he was happy, I’d be happy.” Huh? Short answer is “No. I was not happy.”
I was at that place as well. It is not healthy. If you haven't already, I recommend you read Codependent No More. That is something you can work on for yourself.
I had this "realization" today. Call me dense in that it really just clicked for me today. This all started in June, and he lived in our house until August. During that time, we fought a lot but would also have sex. He moved out in August, but since he moved out, we have had family dinners on a weekly basis and have slept together quite a few times after these family dinners.
Yesterday when he said his life was a mess and he was miserable and just wanted to move on from me, I realized how much he really associates me with his misery. He has a great, high powered job that, yes, is stressful, but he still likes it. His family is supportive of him. He's got the kids 50/50. He's in the best shape of his life. In his head, the only thing I think that could be making him miserable is me and maybe if he's not getting the OW away from her H or finding someone new to move on with. Given I'm still around with the dinners and sex, he probably thinks that is what is truly still making him miserable. I really, really do need to detach for my own good but also for him to realize that even when I'm not around, his life will still be a mess and he's miserable. Maybe he won't but, at this point, I really can't continue to live this way.
You need to DB for you Cdd. Your H has been incredibly disrespectful. If this was a friend of yours going through this, what would you tell her to do? I reread some of your thread and your H’s comments about taking a video of you with another guy and coming over for “sloppy seconds” was revolting. Honestly. That comment is not coming from someone even remotely deserving of your love or even your forgiveness. I know this is hard. This has been the hardest thing I have ever had to endure and I’ve been through a lot. But it is fear that has been ruling your mind and your heart. Fear and longing for what could have been... not what was. I know, I know... I talk a good game...trust me, I know it is easier said than done. I find, however, that the more I write and the more I read and really step back, the stronger I feel. And yes, when I see him and we have such normal interactions, I do take a bit of a step back. BUT...I am proud to say that it is not as big of a step back as it was in the beginning. Listen to your H. He is right. If this is all he has to offer you, you will be much, much, much better off in the long run. ((((HUGS))))
Thank you DejaVu6. It is so hard. I really thought I had this last month, that I was moving forward. I feel like I took so many steps back.
I took many "steps back" as well. Everyone does. If you continue to work on your detachment and GAL then you will be in a better place to deal with your situation.
If you totally stop pursuit and go GAL he will be crying. He already can't take it if you don't respond to a text quick enough or answer you phone. He is cake eating and you are serving it up on request.
I feel like I am doing some sort of two-step dance. It never stops. You are moving forward... you are just sad sometimes. Who wouldn’t be? GAL and let him go.
After this conversation, I felt even more hopeless about the chances of our marriage working out.
Which is exactly why you should never temp check them. They never, ever say what YOU want them to say. It's just more of the same crap- "I'm done, it's over, there's no chance of recon, I want you to move on, I'm moving on, we need to end this ASAP." It's PRESSURE at a time he wants ZERO PRESSURE. Whenever you temp check you set yourself all the way back to square one. It's you telling him "I am still Plan B, please throw me a crumb here, I'm desperate." A temp check is FORCING him to say all those negative things whether he really believes it or not, because he feels obligated to say them to make you move on.
He is really in this place where our marriage represents sadness and unhappiness and he feels he wouldn't go back.
YES, he IS! With time he will come out of that. But you've got to have abundant patience.
I think he feels he is a mess right now because that's not yet happening for him.
And I think you spend WAY too much time trying to figure out what he's thinking and feeling and what it all means. STOP the mind-reading because he doesn't even know! He's expressing a lot of confusion and feelings of being lost which is EXACTLY what most WAS's are going through after BD. They're on a journey that only they can make.
Stop the snooping, you know there's an OW so what more could you possibly learn.Get out. GAL. Work on yourself.
Thanks for your feedback everyone. It really helps.
I dropped off the kids at H’s Monday night. He was exceptionally sweet and kind to me. Gave me a big hug and asked me to stay for dinner, which I did. After the kids went to bed we talked on the couch. He held my hand and looked me in the eye and kept giving me that look he used to when we were together and in love. He said he was sorry he got angry. He said he was just trying to enjoy his weekend. He told me he loved me several times. I know we both wanted to sleep together but didn’t.
He had the kids the next day and he sent me a text in the afternoon asking how I was. We actually had a normal conversation about each of our days like we used to when we were together. That evening I went out with friends. I get a text from him at 9:30 pm asking if I’m going to get “laid” tonight. Ugh. Here I thought the kind man I knew was coming around. But nope, crude, jealous, crazy H was back.
Today I had the kids so, of course, radio silence. Though I know he’s on a business trip but still, I expected it. He emailed a couple mediators and cc’d me to get an intro meeting scheduled.
I swear I’m going to get whiplash with his constant personality changes.
I see him Monday for my son’s parent teacher conference. After that, I won’t see him for almost two weeks due to the holiday schedule and a business trip of his. I’m going on vacation while he has the kids for Thanksgiving. He keeps asking what my plans are and with who but it’s none of his business. It’s driving him crazy. I plan not to reach out to him. Wish me luck and strength to do that and not get weak and wonder what he’s doing when I don’t hear from him.
He was exceptionally sweet and kind to me. Gave me a big hug and asked me to stay for dinner, which I did. After the kids went to bed we talked on the couch. He held my hand and looked me in the eye and kept giving me that look he used to when we were together and in love. He said he was sorry he got angry. He said he was just trying to enjoy his weekend. He told me he loved me several times. I know we both wanted to sleep together but didn’t.
Classic WAS behavior. He's just throwing you enough crumbs to keep you on as Plan B, but as far as he is concerned it's still full steam ahead with wrecking the marriage.
I swear I’m going to get whiplash with his constant personality changes.
He's actually being completely consistent with WAS behavior. The problem is your expectations. Every time he says or does something nice you interpret that as a softening of his position. IT IS NOT. He's just stringing you along while he sorts all his plans out. Later? Who knows, he may very well have a turnaround. But for now this is who he is.
He keeps asking what my plans are and with who but it’s none of his business. It’s driving him crazy.
GOOD! You are right, it's none of his business. And it's driving him crazy? Awesome, you're doing something right
I plan not to reach out to him. Wish me luck and strength to do that and not get weak and wonder what he’s doing when I don’t hear from him.
You can do this!
Hi guys. I'm in a really low place right now. I feel the same way I did when I first found out about the other woman in June. So here I was on Friday minding my own business and taking care of the kids. He calls me and tells me he's going to the mountains to camp and needs to get something from the garage on his way home from work. I said ok. He comes by for a few minutes and before he leaves he hugs me and kisses me. Then he sends me a text message "You look great."
He sent me a text later in the evening checking in because my son is sick and his asthma was bothering him. He says "You're a great mom" with a heart emoji.
The next day, I find out from a friend that he and the other woman are indeed "hanging out." She has slept at his place and she was actually camping with him this weekend. I know I shouldn't have, but I lost it. I sent him angry text messages telling him that I know it's not my business but he lied to me when I asked him last week if he was dating her. He had spotty cell reception and responded back saying he didn't lie. That I always assume I know the whole story but I don't know. Yes, she sleeps over sometimes and yes they hang out, but he can date whoever he wants. And he would not admit to actually "dating" her or "seeing" her. I told him I was mad that he never gave us a second chance and he admits I've changed but he doesn't give me a chance to really talk to me and see if we can work things out because when we see each other we are always with the kids.
He replied and said that he knows we both did things wrong in our marriage. And he said he wants to be friends and coparents and then see what happens from there. He said he's always said that, which is total BS. He used to say he had hope for us but then it changed to wanting to be friends and coparents and wanting to move on. Suddenly he wants to see what happens? Then he says he does want to have some time with me without the kids to talk and hang out. He said "You may not think it, but I do like you." I didn't respond and five minutes later he sends me a text that says "I love you." All this while he is out camping with the OW.
I had to see him today for a mediation intro appointment and parent/teacher conference. He told the mediator that we weren't in a hurry as far as scheduling things. That was a surprise to me. He told me after that he thought about me alot this weekend (uh, yeah, when you were with the OW?). After, I told him I was really hurt about the other woman and I still want to work on our marriage for our family. I know, that's not DB. But I've been in a really bad mental state. He said he's not spending all his free time with the OW and if he wanted to he could even date others. When it comes to working on our marriage, he said that he's not there right now but he's not closing off the possibility of him coming back, not just for our family, but for us. He was very sweet and kissed me. I felt good at the moment but when I walked away I felt horrible.
I don't know if he's saying these things because he's afraid I'm going to text the OW and tell her how he's been acting with me or if he is just stringing me along. Maybe both. Friends say he likes having the control over me, knowing he can have me whenever he wants, and it is feeding his ego that there are two women who want him. I'm being told to not respond back to his text and just act like I'm moving on. The OW used to be the one who was "out of reach" for him and he liked that challenge and chase. Now, she's there and available and I need to be the one who is out of reach.
This is so hard and frustrating. I really thought I was moving forward a few months ago and now I feel like I'm right back where I started.
Cdd,
I have a question that I hope you don't mind. Really looking at the sitch and everything H is doing, how do you honestly feel about all the physical contact from H? From an outsiders perspective I would guess physical affection is top of the list for your love language and H may be using this to string you along. If you really are ok with it then disregard my question but if there is some doubt in your mind about it I think this may be a good chance to set a healthy boundary for yourself.
My love language is actually quality time. H’s is physical affection, which he said I never gave him when we were married. I feel good when it happens because I get a glimmer of hope but then he leaves and I just feel stupid for thinking that way and confused. I think this is a game for him. He likes to have control and wants to feel wanted and pursued.
Remember, every time you kiss and/or hug him....you are kissing and hugging OW too. This is why I could never be affectionate with someone that was also affectionate with someone else. It grosses me out.
CDD, this reaction you had shows you have a long way to go and a lot of work to do. Your goal should be to be okay no matter what he says or does. Right now your goal is still to hold on as tight to him as he will allow you. The first goal is attainable with only your efforts. The second requires effort from both of you....and you can't control him.
I really am struggling. He has the kids for Thanksgiving and I went away on vacation. I went to a place where he knows I have an ex who lives here and I keep in touch with, though I am not interested in doing anything with.
The day I left he sent me an early morning text (probably from the OW’s place) that said he’ll be thinking about me and he hopes I’ll have a nice time. I said thanks and he then asked me if I wanted to come over for a quickie. Here we go again...I said no and he said “Oh well, I’ll just call the 25 year old barista I f#*ked before. I didn’t respond.
Thanksgiving morning he sent me a text to tell me happy Thanksgiving and that he and the kids miss me. I didn’t respond and a few hours later he sent pictures of the kids and a “We miss you” message. The pictures got me and I replied saying I miss the kids. The. He said “I’m making stuffing. Can’t wait to stuff you next week. Have fun over there. I’ll probably sneak out when the kids and my family (they’re visiting) are asleep.” He was trying to make me jealous that he was going to step out of the house later to see the OW. I didn’t reply but now I am an anxious wreck. Wondering if my silence will make him mad or feel unwanted and push him closer to the OW. I realize it shouldn’t matter but I am having a really hard time with this. I read so many self help books and sites, I have a therapist and a life coach, yet I am stuck on him and what he says and does. What normal person says and does this?
Seriously...Cdd. What is WRONG with your H? My H has some serious issues but he would never, ever even dream of being THAT DISRESPECTFUL to me. It is gross. I think there is something seriously off about your H...no offense. If my H said things like that to me, I think I would find it much, much easier to move on. To answer your question... NO NORMAL person says and does that. NO ONE. It is just abusive as far as I am concerned. He comes across like a gross, chauvinist pig... He is trying to make you feel worthless and guilty. DO NOT LET HIM!!!
CDD,
For your sake I suggest putting a stop to this immediately. I am as physical a male as it gets and would never, ever, ever speak to any woman like that. He needs to know that you will not be spoken to like that. He is 100% making this a game and you are nothing more then a booty call to him.
I'm sorry Cdd, but to me this screams of emotional abuse. I'm not an expert but I agree with Deja that this is not okay. I don't know your story (sorry, haven't read the full threads yet) but this is an example you're setting for your kid(s) that it's okay to stay no matter what. He is intentionally making you feel small.
Many many hugs to you, as I realize that you are obviously in so much pain on this. Do not text him back. You may wonder what it will "make" him do (I suspect your H has never been "made" to do anything he doesn't wan to do), but push it aside every time that thought enters your head. Instead, laugh at him in your head. Remind yourself of your power. You have the power to not text back. That is something you can do! This non-action of refraining from texting is actually an ACTION you can take! Every time you make a decision or make an action you will begin to feel stronger.
Thanks guys. Yes, I’ve been told it’s emotional abuse I keep hanging on because I want the comfort of what I knew, even if it wasn’t good. I want the financial stability. And I want the idea of the perfect marriage that people thought we had but didn’t have. I’ll be the first to admit I wasn’t happy with him and even ambivalent when we first started dating. But I have a history of having a hard time letting go of bad relationships. I don’t want to feel like I failed and got left for someone else.
It makes me mad that people think he’s such a nice guy. I thought he was. It’s the main reason I married him as I have a history of dating jerks. He never talked like this to me when we were married. It’s only now. I think he gets off on the control. I tell myself that walking away would be the best move for me and to show him that I won’t be around to stroke his ego.
Thanks guys. Yes, I’ve been told it’s emotional abuse I keep hanging on because I want the comfort of what I knew, even if it wasn’t good. I want the financial stability. And I want the idea of the perfect marriage that people thought we had but didn’t have. I’ll be the first to admit I wasn’t happy with him and even ambivalent when we first started dating. But I have a history of having a hard time letting go of bad relationships. I don’t want to feel like I failed and got left for someone else.
It makes me mad that people think he’s such a nice guy. I thought he was. It’s the main reason I married him as I have a history of dating jerks. He never talked like this to me when we were married. It’s only now. I think he gets off on the control. I tell myself that walking away would be the best move for me and to show him that I won’t be around to stroke his ego.
I really like your second paragraph. May I share with you something that helps me when I feel helpless? It's a quote from an artist I really like. I repeat it in my mind.
"We have to create. It is the only thing louder than destruction". -A. Gibson (queer spoken word poet. YouTube them if you'd like).
To me, this is what gets me through the day when I feel like there is negativity all around and I don't know how to respond. MAKE something. CREATE something. Have a positive moment. You are surrounded by negativity but by making yourself take 1 TINY action where you create something positive - that can really impact you. So find anything that you can do that you have a positive finished product. Make a cake (yay then you can eat it!). Knit a hat. Do a paint-by-number. At the end of it you have a physical product of something positive you did within all the negative swirl around you. For me this really helps.
I understand your desire for comfort. But remind yourself that this isn't really comfort. It's....pretty uncomfortable. Maybe you can search for comfort somewhere else, though you won't find it on Day 1. I also respect your desire for financial stability - that's not something to laugh at or diminish. But just try to weigh your financial stability against your mental stability, because it seems he's trying to erode the latter.
Ohmigosh Yali!!! I LOVE that. What a wonderful quote. It is so beautiful and simple. Thank you for sharing that.
Cdd... all I can say is that you are way too good for your H. He is being incredibly disrespectful and cruel. There is no excuse for that. He is doing it with a purpose...to make you feel less worthLESS. Know your worth!!! Dig deep. Look past your emotions. If your daughter was you, what would you advise her to do? What does your WISE mind say?
Your H needs some serious therapy, IMO, but you are not his therapist nor should you be.
(((HUGS)))
cdd.... I'm so sorry what you are going through. We are all are facing our own trials, but the level of maliciousness that you are dealing with is incomprehensible. I know it's easy as us as outsiders looking in to tell you you don't deserve this, but at the same time, I want to tell you I can understand why you are still fighting. You are viewing your husband as the person you once knew. I am doing the same with my wife even though she is lying to anyone within talking distance to speak at how bad of a person I am. It sounds like your husband is a complete NARC. I'm sorry.
Even though I have a lot of things to work on in my own sitch with the upcoming divorce, I can honestly say after all of this is that when one goes through a trial, their true colors come out. Your H has shown his, unfortunately, but the bright, shining light in all of this is that you have shown yours. It takes so much courage, strength, conviction and unconditional love to face such cruelty and still show compassion. Just like the rest of us, we have our faults we need to work on. But to be able to deal with such a trial, you have shown a kind, caring heart that just wants to make things work. You sound like an amazing person, and I just want you to know you don't deserve this.
I will say, if my wife said what your H said to you recently, I would file for D. I'm a devout Christian and follower of Jesus. I believe in my sitch, the only way I could divorce my W is for infidelity which I don't have any proof of(she is a believer so I can't divorce her for abandonement by an unbeliever). I would give her every chance to repent if she did have an affair, but if that never happened, I would feel at peace getting out of the abusive cycle. I do want to preface this by saying my wife left 11 months into marriage, so I obviously cannot truly relate to your situation, especially given you have kids. I will be praying for you and following your sitch closely.
I'll try to go back in the next couple of days to get caught up on your sitch, but in the meantime, just know that you have many people on this board including me who are with you.
FF
cdd 1976
I recognise so much of what you say about hanging onto this marriage even though it wasn't good. When I wrote down what I was hanging onto; shared history, financial security; 30 years etc etc; none of these things were about him. Irrespective of his abominal behaviour to you; neither of you should actually feel obliged to stay in an unhealthy relationship.
It's dead; it's gone. You are grieving, but you have to acknowledge the marriage has died, bury it and move on in your emotions.
You can torment yourself with 'what ifs' and 'whys' but it doesn't matter. Accept what is happening today, not what went before.
I have internal dialogues and whenever I feel the 'what ifs' coming on, I remind myself that he wasn't that person after all, because he lied, cheated and manipulated.
Write a list of what a future partner would look like; what qualities would you look for, what are your non negotiables? Mine were honesty, fidelity and selflessness. Does he tick those boxes? No. So until he does, he doesn't deserve my time. Will he ever? I don't know, but that's down to him.
I imagine all the nasty stuff coming out of his mouth is because he senses he is losing control and is panicking. Therefore this is actually in your control.
He needs to show massive changes; until he does you need to stop giving him the time of day. You don't not need this man in your life abusing you. That is your choice and your control. Only when he shows massive change do you even contemplate whether to allow him back into your life. That is in your control.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if he'd had the decency 3 years ago to sit down and discuss the marriage; would it have survived? But he didn't and the fact that he made decisions to carry on as normal, carry on a 16 month affair, lie and manipulate, move out, come back etc etc make it a pointless exercise. But it does demonstrate to me a lack of respect,lack of basic decency and that he is a coward who could only think of his own immediate needs. I always told him that I could try to forgive the affair and that people make mistakes but it is how they rectify them and behave after that truly matters. If I judge him by his behaviour post BD then it is that which shows why I won't entertain him at the moment.
Do you still have a chance? Yes, but you cannot continue like this. Wait and see if he can make the necessary effort to change and treat you respectfully and in the meanwhile work on your fears by broadening your life with what makes you tick. You may well find that you don't want him back but that only comes from burying that relationship, lifting your head up high and saying 'right, what do I want'
You can do it. NOBODY needs somebody else to feel alive and worthwhile. You are alive and worthwhile and obviously an amazing and strong person. Look what he's put you through and you are still standing. Keep getting stronger. He will either accept the loss of control or he'll fight against it. But you are stronger than him because you are a decent, loving person. Show that strength. It may just be what wakes him up to realise what an a*** he is being.
Forgive my bluntness. I'm from the North of England and it's a well known trait!
Forgot to say: I will always remember my husband of 27 years sitting with serious face on telling me the sexual preferences of his OW, in graphic detail. And thrusting a photo of OW in my best friend's face who had the decency to talk to him several times rather than take sides. I was so shocked and hurt at the time but now I think about it from time to time and just think 'what a ridiculous man' Time and detachment did that for me.
I think my H played multiple mindf*#@ery games with me yesterday. It was only after it was done that I realized how manipulative he is.
I woke up yesterday morning to a text from him asking what I did last night and with who. He positioned it like he was “joking.” For those asking why I don’t block him, I do want him to be able to contact me as he has the kids. I would have ignored it but I was in an emotional state so I replied and told him that he needs to stop inquiring and stop sending crude texts. I asked why it mattered to him given he was seeing the OW again.
That caused a blow up. He said he was just “playing” and that I needed to stop bringing up the OW. He said “It’s not about her. It’s about you and me being terrible together. I felt like I was in prison. I’m terrified of going back. Get it yet?”
That comment about being in prison just broke my heart. I felt like he’s forgotten everything we used to have. He then told me “I thought we were getting along again. I tried so hard. I’m sorry it didn’t work. Maybe I should just be all in with her since you are already implying that I have moved on with her.” Huh? Is it just me or was he trying to make me feel like he was trying to work things out with me again but then it’s my fault once again that it didn’t work out and I pushed him to her again? His wording was so sneaky. It’s funny too because we had just fought on Tuesday but him saying he thought we were getting along again made it sound like we had been doing so well for a longer period of time. Is this what they call gaslighting?
He then said “I love you but I can’t do these ups and downs anymore.” I think he means he likes to send me “nice” messages and crude messages but when I call him out on it, he can’t handle it.
So I go out to dinner with my friends and, sure enough, I get a crude message later that evening asking what or “who” I’m doing.
I wish this man would seek mental help. I head back home today. Good news is that he’s leaving today for a week long work conference in Las Vegas. He will be busy with work and I’m sure indulging himself in the evenings (she may possibly be there too as they work for the same company) but at least he will leave me alone as he never has the need to know what I’m doing when he doesn’t have the kids and I do.
I was hoping to clear my mind on this vacation. I didn’t fully but it did get clearer to me how he is manipulating me and truly has narcissistic tendencies.
He then said “I love you but I can’t do these ups and downs anymore.” I think he means he likes to send me “nice” messages and crude messages but when I call him out on it, he can’t handle it.
Yep. He can't handle it. This is your reminder to stop responding to him, because it's affecting you more than it is him. I guarantee he is not still reliving your interaction - but you are.
I was hoping to clear my mind on this vacation. I didn’t fully but it did get clearer to me how he is manipulating me and truly has narcissistic tendencies.
Although you responded in a way you probably shouldn't have, consider your growing clarity a win. You are seeing who he really is right now, and you don't like it. Remember what you've learned from these interactions!
He sounds like an immature, self-focused man with major self-esteem issues. He wants to keep you on the hook. He is also projecting quite a bit. The most suspicious people are almost always the ones we should be most suspicious of. He doesn’t have the need to know what you are doing when you have the kids because he already knows what you are doing. He knows that you are with the kids. It’s when he has the kids that his mind starts to wander and his insecure self gets super jealous and texts those ridiculously offensive texts. I would just tell him that if he texts you in a respectful way, you will respond when you can but that if he sends you offensive texts, he will get no response whatsoever. And then stick to it. Set your boundary and stick to it. Do not let him get to you or buy into his accusations. He is pretty sure you aren’t doing anything cause he knows you. But...he isn’t 100% sure and it is driving him nuts. Let him sit with it. This is his bed. He made it. He has to lie in it.
I would just tell him that if he texts you in a respectful way, you will respond when you can but that if he sends you offensive texts, he will get no response whatsoever. And then stick to it. Set your boundary and stick to it.
I like this idea very much! But, perhaps I wouldn't tell it to him. Just do it. Respond politely to general inquiries, but ignore outright every single one that is crude or crosses a line or asks who you're with. He does not have that right. Remember that your rights to privacy are equal (or likely GREATER) than his "rights" to know anything about you. You are his equal at a bare minimum. But we all know you're actually his superior
This past week was predictable. He was in Vegas for work. In-laws has the kids Monday and Tuesday so he was texting me regularly to check on what I was doing. I admit, I responded on Monday but didn’t Tuesday. I had the kids Wednesday and Thursday so of course I didn’t hear from him. But I contacted him Thursday to find out what time he was picking up the kids on Friday and he got upset that I was “bothering” him. He said “I need to adjust how I set expectations with you.” Wow.
H came over last night to pick up the kids. We sat down to talk about some household and kid related stuff. I find he is more amenable when we do these talks in person but I was still nervous we’d get into a fight because I had quite a few financial topics to discuss that required him giving me more money - I’m finding the monthly budget I set isn’t enough, Christmas gifts, etc. I expected him to blow up but instead he said yes to all without even complaining. He almost offered me more money. He even said “I want to support you.” What, did he win the jackpot while in Vegas? I’m waiting for him to renege and flip out about money again.
I bring up mediation. We had an intro meeting with one mediator last week. We had another intro with a second one scheduled in two weeks. He told me before Thanksgiving that the second one was pointless because he didn’t want to wait that long to meet with another mediator, that we should just go with the first one and get things going. Then yesterday, I told him I was going to cancel the meeting with the second mediator. He said “Why? Keep it. We have time.” Huh?
So before he leaves he grabs me and kisses me passionately. I got weak and let him. Then, he tells me “We can’t do this physical stuff anymore. It’s hard because when I see you, you look so hot, but it’s not fair to you or me. We can’t keep yo-yo’ing, and I don’t want to hurt you.” WTF. Ok, he’s right that we can’t do physical stuff anymore but I was mad that he kissed me and then said this to me. I was mad that he said it to me when I was already trying to detach. I was mad that he said he didn’t want to hurt me...um, haven’t you done that already? And I was mad that last week it was “I’m thinking about you. I miss you. I love you.”
My next moment of weakness, I asked if he was in a relationship with the OW. He said “I don’t know. I mean, I’m not in anything right now but eventually I will be with her or with someone else.” Again, inability to just tell me. I got my senses together and said “You’re right. We can’t be physical anymore.” He didn’t say anything but I think he was a little surprised I agreed instead of getting upset.
He left after that. I’m still mad that he kissed me and then brought this up. I wanted to detach without it seeming like it was his idea. Does that make sense? I know, it shouldn’t matter either way.
I’m also still hurt and in disbelief that he is starting a relationship with the OW. I don’t want her anywhere near my kids. Everyone tells me that it won’t last but honestly, I don’t know with them. They had an affair for a year and saw each other almost every morning, lunches on work days, and one day almost every other weekend so I feel they got to know each other well vs other affairs where they don’t see each other often and only realize they are not compatible after they spend more time together. They bonded because they were both unhappy in their marriages and had their favorite activities in common - mountain climbing, hiking, etc. I know I can’t control things, but I fear this could become something serious. I hope it does not. But what we focus on grows so I know I need to stop worrying about it.
I guess it is all the more reason for me to truly detach. I know I should do it for myself and I do realize I’ve always deserved better. I want to start off today differently. I want to detach. I want to have a different attitude and put out a different energy than what I’ve been giving out the last six months. I’m tired of all this bulls*#t and want him to realize what he is losing but I also want to stop caring whether or not he realizes it.
Please start a new thread and link your two threads together. Many thanks!