Whirlwind of hurt 2 - DivorceBusting.com

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Summary:

Wife was talking about separation 1 week before BD. Labor day weekend wife changed her mind and BD. Had lawyer and real estate agent. I did everything wrong pushed her away. Got her to calm down and we decided to find a mediator. Found DB and started working on it. I started with IC. I found wife was having an EA with Male coworker. Upon confrontation wife denies and doesn't care as she sees the marriage as over. I kick her out of MBR, but can't get her to leave house. Wife starts using same IC. Wife is moving fast and hard to make this happen as is typical of her demeanor. She is in the fog and living a fantasy. She is looking at buying houses at least as expensive as the one we own and looking at buying a new car for her new exciting life post D. I DB the best I can and she has opened up here and there. However, the sitch looks bleak and I think its headed for the BigD unless God grants me a miracle.

The 3 mantras I repeat to myself thanks to the DB forums.
Be the lighthouse.
It's going to get worse before it gets better.
It's a marathon not a sprint.

Ok folks, I was going through the asset list and custody calendar with wife this evening. Daughter started throwing a fit about some school events. It upset wife and caused her to open up. She said I was an absent father and absent to our marriage. I validate her feelings, she then says I am not an absent father, in fact she says the kids now see me as the favorite and don't like her. She doesn't talk about being absent to the marriage. I really want to explore this topic, but not sure if it's good for db so I don't pursue.

Feel like I am between a rock and a hard place. I know I have things to work on and I am actively doing that. While I don't feel like I was absent in the marriage it's still stings. I understand why she may feel that way as often in our marriage she would bum rush me with emotions, tears, etc and my defense mechanism was to shutdown, be flat with emotion on the outside. On the inside I was trying to process everything.

If my goal is to be a man only a fool would leave, then why do I feel like the fool?

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Question for the DB vets.

How much do I tell the W about my GAL? If it's with the kids I obviously have to tell her what's going on and she knows there is always an open invitation to family time on my part. But solo GAL? She obviously wants to know my business and she shares some of hers. Although I believe nothing she says anymore.
What and how much do I share? I also know she could try to use this against me to get really wayward, but I guess apart of DB would be to let it roll off my back until it affects the kids lives.

Remember we both still live in the same house. If we were separated it would be a different story.

Tell her nothing, just that you seeing friends. She thinks her EA is nothing b/c she's done with the marriage, so like Davide said, you have no obligation to her. I made the mistake of telling too much of my GAL to my WW. Let her wonder.

TF I feel the same way I want to open up and talk to my W but I know it's futile. If in her mind she thinks that everything I say is said only to keep her in the marriage. Therefore, in her mind, I'm only trying to take care of myself and my needs and not hers. I just got done doing 4 hours of driving with her and not a word about our R was said. At dinner with our friends, she talks about future trips with them and was holding my hand as she said it. Last night she told our daughters that we are going to move to Hawaii someday and she made sure she said your Dad and me. Ha, I could see right through that one. But there is no attempt at physical contact when she isn't around friends. There is no plan in her mind that includes the two of us. I don't know what she is thinking but I know that she is not fully in this marriage.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Ok folks, I was going through the asset list and custody calendar with wife this evening. Daughter started throwing a fit about some school events. It upset wife and caused her to open up. She said I was an absent father and absent to our marriage. I validate her feelings, she then says I am not an absent father, in fact she says the kids now see me as the favorite and don't like her. She doesn't talk about being absent to the marriage. I really want to explore this topic, but not sure if it's good for db so I don't pursue.

Feel like I am between a rock and a hard place. I know I have things to work on and I am actively doing that. While I don't feel like I was absent in the marriage it's still stings. I understand why she may feel that way as often in our marriage she would bum rush me with emotions, tears, etc and my defense mechanism was to shutdown, be flat with emotion on the outside. On the inside I was trying to process everything.

If my goal is to be a man only a fool would leave, then why do I feel like the fool?

Sounds a lot like my sitch. In fact I was just told this 2 weeks ago. lol. I never felt I was absent in our M, but she felt I was. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle? I think the hard part for a lot of relationships is each person needs to be willing to 'meet in the middle'. like, you and I realize that we weren't perfect and as attentive as we should be, and we would/could do more. But are our wives willing to admit that we weren't all that bad, and they themselves could have been doing more, and would do more in the future?

In our WW or WAW history for them has changed, and it's dark and negative and full of inaccuracies. Remember don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. I struggle with this too. W held my hand and rubbed my back at dinner a nice gesture but only believe half of what they do which means only half of that was from the heart the other half probably to put on a cover for the friends. Because after that no hand holding or touching for the rest of the night, in fact, nothing yesterday and last night either. She's pulled back for sure.

Terapin- First 2 weeks I was 100% to blame, but now as per yesterdays convo she says we probably are both to blame, but I am mostly to blame. So she has softened her stance a bit and maybe her anger a bit. However, she has hardened her heart towards me so I just go on with the DB.

Again18 - I wish my wife would hold my hand, I fantasize about her giving me a hug. Then I snap to and tell myself that well has dried up, maybe forever. Just need to keep focusing on my own personal growth and maybe that well will fill up again.

TF don't forget I was in your shoes once as well. No hugs, no kisses no hand holding. And if there was I paid the consequences big time. Pull back with rejuvenated energy from wife wanting to leave the marriage. But after she came back it's been 14 years now it was great, until now of course. Two nights ago yes, she held my hand but I don't think it was a gesture of reconciliation, no probably cake eating. I'm paying the price now. I found that she did get the sample of this book To Good to Leave to Bad to Stay. I think she was reading it last night. Her problem, she's not a reader and so after while she will give up. Probably way before she gets to a place where she could actually see that our marriage relationship one is fine and two she would be happier staying. Not holding my breath here.

I said it another thread. Sometimes it seems like the W is DB me.

I was home for lunch and the W showed up. She asked what I was doing tonight. Then said never mind, then said are you meeting a lawyer? I told her really? I would be meeting with a lawyer on a Friday evening? She said you are right never mind I don't need to know what your doing. I said like I told you last night I'm going out with friends. We said our goodbyes and I headed off to work.

This isn't the first time she has approached me about wondering if I'm getting a lawyer. Wonder if I should ask what's up or let it go.

So I had an awesome night of GAL went to a concert with some friends and family. Didn't answer the W phone calls or texts. Did let her know I would be out late out and around what time I would be home. I did this out of courtesy and because she still does the same.

Today she was heading out to do some GAL with her gal pal. I'm going to GAL with the kids then head to church tonight unless she doesn't get home in time otherwise church tomorrow, more GAL plans tomorrow. Talked to my IC about DR and the IC said it's a great book and she is glad I am following its principles. IC is hopeful that I can reconcile either before D or after D. IC says if I truly love my W I have to let her go, even if that means she hits rock bottom or even if that means she moves on without me. The IC uses this analogy. You have to place love on your open palm. If you squeeze love and it leaves it won't come back and cannot come back to a closed fist. If you leave your hand open and your love leaves it can still come back onto your open hand.
Love from a distance, very lighthouse-esque. It is very hard though. As my W was getting ready for her GAL she asked me how she looks (same for when she gets ready for work) I say you look nice and those clothes look like good choice for your GAL , and just remain cordial. My heart is screaming out you look absolutely beautiful, just as beautiful as the day we married. It's hard loving from a distance, being the lighthouse. I feel like I am going through another grieving process. Something feels like its dieing inside me. I don't think it's the love for my W maybe it's the way I love my W. I dunno, just something dieing and feeling the grieving.

Wife came home from GAL late so I missed church. I will just go in the morning. She was being nice, but real shifty with her phone again. Was basically hiding out in the girls room. Walked in to put some toys away and she says she is in th room so she can go through pics on her phone. I say so what your saying is you need some privacy. She says yes. I put the toys away then leave. I don't like when she is like this it makes me think she is up to no good, and I don't need those thoughts in racing in my head. After I feed the kids dinner I come back up to let her know I'm heading out to go watch cfb. She wants to know where, but I give a look that says none of your business, but I say maybe my sisters house maybe some friends house, haven't decided yet. Then I say my goodbyes and GAL. Later when I come back I'm up in the oldest D bed cuddling with her till she falls asleep. W comes in asks how much longer cause she needs space and if I'm going to hang out she is going to go lay on the couch downstairs. I tell her I respect her need for space and that the oldest is almost asleep.i tell he rd when that happens I will go downstairs and I tell her to relax no need to leave. I decide to do a 180 and show her gratitude by thanking her and appreciate her for watching the kids while I was GAL Fri & Sat night. I tell her she is a great Mom and the kids love having her watch them and care for them. She says thank you and that I am a good dad. We say our good nights.

I head to bed but I haven't slept well because I cry myself to sleep, then wake up and cry, then sleep. Rinse and repeat.

Oh and on a side note she started up her fb account again. I HATE SM. I do not have any SM accounts because it keeps my mind free and clear. As expected I used to be in all her fb pics, now I have been scrubbed.

TF,

I just want to say for a newbie you are doing a great job at dbiing. Imo you need to cut way back on the validation. You do not need to validate every statement she makes especially because she is having an affair.

You cannot do or say anything to change your situation. You can tell her she's a great mom until the cows come home and it will change nothing. You have to get to a place where you truly don't give a $hit she's hiding her phone, on FB, isn't home etc.

You have really young kids, most men including OM will most likely want nothing to do with them. The minute she realizes that you are no plan B anymore, she will rethink her entire thought process.

You can't fake it though. You have to develop the mindset that I ain't anybody's fuching plan B.

I promise you no matter the outcome you will come out the other side a happy man if you put in the work.

Originally Posted by LH19

TF,

I just want to say for a newbie you are doing a great job at dbiing. Imo you need to cut way back on the validation. You do not need to validate every statement she makes especially because she is having an affair.

You cannot do or say anything to change your situation. You can tell her she's a great mom until the cows come home and it will change nothing. You have to get to a place where you truly don't give a $hit she's hiding her phone, on FB, isn't home etc.

You have really young kids, most men including OM will most likely want nothing to do with them. The minute she realizes that you are no plan B anymore, she will rethink her entire thought process.

You can't fake it though. You have to develop the mindset that I ain't anybody's fuching plan B.

I promise you no matter the outcome you will come out the other side a happy man if you put in the work.

LH, I know we are all internet strangers, but I really appreciate the moral support. We are all going through or have gone through this and we are all in this together. It feels good and gives me courage.

I probably don't validate as much as you think it's just what I post, or maybe you are right and I do it too much. I dunno. My IC wants me to validate the wife once per day if possible. Can be hard with a wife who treats you like a stranger/roomate. And yeah this sitch just $ucks. I'm facing up to it just haven't quite let go yet. I feel like the 1st mediation on wed might be that push. Thank the Lord my IC is scheduled after it.

As far as OM goes I just don't really care or think about that loser much anymore. He didn't cause this my W did. He is just some pathetic sad sack not worth my time. I would think the W just comes with too much baggage for most. Who knows. Problem is that if she never comes back I too have the same 3 kids which doesn't help my prospects for future R. This is why people should stick it out and work out their problems. Lol try explaining that to a WAS is like speaking a foreign language.

On another note saw the SIL, BIL, niece and nephew and MIL at church. They were all happy to see me and glad that I was going to church again. Told me what time they normally attend and wants me to go and sit with them during church service from now on. I have known SIL since she was just barely a teenager and she sees me as the brother she never had. She said wants to keep that relationship strong even after the D. Bring the kids around and hang out with her and BIL after they become X. I agreed with her on this. Glad that relationship hasn't faltered although I will need to be very careful of what I say and do around the in-laws. Even though they are in the dark on the real details, blood is thicker than water.

TF,

I comeback to help because it has become a part of mission and my purpose. I know how you feel right now because I was in your shoes. I remember clearly around 4 years ago walking around my mothers neighborhood aimlessly thinking my life was over. If I didn't have my family together I had nothing. I would read this bored trying to find the magic bullet to change my situation around. I remember vets saying that the LBS ultimately were in control of their situation. I remember saying what are they talking about I have no control, I want to reconcile and my W doesn't. More on this later

It wasn't until I read a post from a great poster Accuray (his posts are a most read) that it wasn't about losing my W it was about losing control of my life. Things had changed and were never going to be the same. He is a big proponent of the quickest way to reconcile is to actually head in the opposite direction. Another analogy would be if a caged animal wants out of the cage you open the cage door and let them out. Maybe they comeback maybe they don't but if you don't let them out of the cage they will always want to get out. Time and space are the only things that turn this around.

I am pretty blunt with my posts that though we weren't perfect husbands we don't deserve this and we shouldn't tolerate any of the BS the WW is dishing out. If the LBS just focuses on himself and his kids everything will work itself out.

I have been divorced for 5 months and recently had an epiphany on what the vets were saying about the LBS having control. I no longer want or need my W back. Now if she wanted to comeback would I hear her out? Yes, I feel I would owe it to my kids to hear her out. Guess what though, it would be on my terms and she would have to EARN another chance with me.

As for dating, I have been OLD for 2 months and it's challenging because I think there are bad people who ruin it for others and W are really guarded. However, I am talking to a W whose profile including a statement saying "please don't be creepy". You seem like a normal dude so you will be fine. Normal is in demand!

I was kid free this weekend and it was awesome. I was sitting out back in the sun watching the trees branches blow in the wind and I actually got emotional and became very grateful because all the hard work I put in has paid off and my sitch no longer effects me in a negative way and chapter 2 is just starting to unfold.

As for my ex everybody tells me she is lost. She's a great mom so that is my only concern right now.

So I talked to the W about scheduling dental appointments for the kids last night. She said she isn't ready to do that or if I want to I can schedule something for a one time visit. I have noticed she has been scheduling/establishing health, vision, etc visits for the kids in the city. This is over towards an area she has mentioned wanting to live after the D. I don't know if you call this cake eating or what, but I felt like I needed to set some firm boundaries. We both work, live, and send the kids to school in our community. I plan on continuing to live in our community and as I said it sounds like she wants to live in the city and commute out to her work in our community. However, we plan on sharing all custody 50/50, so if she plans on moving into the city, why should child welfare be situated to be within the vicinity of where she wants to live versus where we are currently established. So this morning to kind of snap her out of her fog I pulled out the child plan document the state requires us to fill out. Apparently, she didn't even know such a thing exists... she wants to knock this out in one session and she hasn't done much, and we have mediation in 2 days. I don't want the D and I don't want to be too helpful, but d@mn does she wants make this more expensive than it needs to be? Anyway, I told her she needs to read through it and think about what it says and what we want to do. I told her I don't want to control where she lives. She is free to do what she wants, but we have to agree what we want to do with our kids. If one of us moves away beyond a certain agreed distance (talking long distance) then that parent could lose custody. All of it would have to be played out in court before a judge and it could get messy. The document even shows some examples and recommends solving issues to prevent court. I told her we have to determine an agreed living distance (short distance) and that beyond this distance we have to determine how transportation and other expenses are handled. You could see it open her eyes a bit.

I just don't see the point of needing to drive clear into the city to take the kids to the doctor, dentist, whatever when we have the same quality of health care out here just because it is convenient for where she wants to move to. On her days She can easily take the kids to appointments out here since its where she works and they attend school. I talked to her about this to get her thinking on it. I unfortunately can't trust her fully anymore and I could see the next thing would be her potentially trying to move the kids to new schools in her area if I don't set firm boundaries especially legal boundaries.

She told me we don't really have to follow all those plans and we can do what we want. I told her I agree to a point in that we can be flexible and do what we think is best for our kids. However, these plans are set so if we don't agree on something we defer to the legal child plan. She was talking about vacations and that we don't need to fill out that part of the form. I said we need to set a priority ie mom even year dad odd years. I told her you want to take the kids on vaca for 2 weeks great! However, if we both have plans on the same year and day we need to set a priority. She didn't really like that.

She might think I am trying to be controlling. She didn't say that, but I also used soft language to convey a point and not using attacking statements. But, d@mn!t we spent 13 years of marriage with her getting what she wants always chasing for that next better thing and any time I put up resistance I was the POS ruining her life not putting her first. This grass is greener syndrome has been and is being total BS on our lives. Hell, the biggest resistance I put up was keeping us out of state for 3 of the 5 years we were gone to work on my career and her career, and even then she moved us back. It was I won't live here anymore I took a job in our home state. I am moving you coming or staying? It ended up working out for the best in terms of work life balance, but good partnership right? This feels like one selfish thing after the next. Don't worry I am not perfect I definitely did her wrong along the way, but I always tried to apologize and make up for it. I am forgive and forget and she is never forget and apparently never forgive. The scales are starting to tip, and my blinders are coming off. Don't get me wrong I love her and will always love her, I want an R and if D hits would still go for an R. For the benefit of our kids, our history, the love I will always have with her. D@mnit if that day comes I am not rolling over for her.

Despite all my anger and ranting in this post. The whole thing went off without a fight. It was a bit of a eye opener for her. She was pleasant this morning, which was nice. I say this next statement with some anger, it still $ucks I can't tell her how beautiful she looks ever morning.

Hi TF,

Here is where I started:
H(39) W(39) S9,S7,D5
T18, M12

Anything look familiar?

Might find some helpful info here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47514&Number=2061092#Post2061092
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1922220
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=19238

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Every choice I make is based on what is best for my kids.
I will listen, understand and empathize with Mrs Ready2Change.
I will have effective communication with Mrs Ready2Change.
I CHOOSE not to get mad or angry, even if Mrs Read2Change projects that at me. Her garbage not mine.
I am in complete control over all my family activities.
I am spending more one on one time with each of my kids.
Mrs Ready2Change has the freedom to do what she wants.
I have the freedom to do what I want.

I hope Mrs R2C finds happy.....

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Hi TF,

Here is where I started:
H(39) W(39) S9,S7,D5
T18, M12

Anything look familiar?

Might find some helpful info here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47514&Number=2061092#Post2061092
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1922220
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=19238

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Every choice I make is based on what is best for my kids.
I will listen, understand and empathize with Mrs Ready2Change.
I will have effective communication with Mrs Ready2Change.
I CHOOSE not to get mad or angry, even if Mrs Read2Change projects that at me. Her garbage not mine.
I am in complete control over all my family activities.
I am spending more one on one time with each of my kids.
Mrs Ready2Change has the freedom to do what she wants.
I have the freedom to do what I want.

I hope Mrs R2C finds happy.....

R2C,

There are some striking similarities. I get it, the writing is on the wall, I was just angry when I typed my previous post. Now after briefly scanning your sitch, I am not angry anymore. My heart hurts again.
I think maybe the only thing that is different from my sitch and most others I have seen is that mine is moving at light speed.

P.S. I plan on reading your sitch later tonight. Do you still love her?

[/quote]I think maybe the only thing that is different from my sitch and most others I have seen is that mine is moving at light speed.[/quote]

I am telling you that is not a bad thing. I was in limbo for three years and it was soul crushing.

Time and space are the only thing that turns these things around.

Getting her out of the house will be a godsend for your peace of mind.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

I think maybe the only thing that is different from my sitch and most others I have seen is that mine is moving at light speed.

Originally Posted by LH19

I am telling you that is not a bad thing. I was in limbo for three years and it was soul crushing.

Time and space are the only thing that turns these things around.

Getting her out of the house will be a godsend for your peace of mind.

It may not be the best for the kids, definitely not best taxes wise, but we are going to call it a wash. We will sell the home and move into new homes after D. I wanted to wait till the end of the year so we could file married and save some money. Now due to tax liabilities we are going to have to pony up. Oh well, she was good at spending money, and I was good at saving it.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Do you still love her?

After D was finalized, I fell in love with someone else. I have been in an amazing committed relationship for the past 8 years. I keep hoping X will find happiness.

I did my best to bust the D.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Do you still love her?

After D was finalized, I fell in love with someone else. I have been in an amazing committed relationship for the past 8 years. I keep hoping X will find happiness.

I did my best to bust the D.

I am really glad to hear you found new love and a new R.

Let me rephrase my question. Do you still have love for her.

Well last night we went as a family to do some kids errands. It was nice that we were able to do this as a whole family. Down the road we will still do certain things as a family (birth days, kids rec, etc), but it will be few and far between. The W has been friendly and somewhat talkative. I think I do an decent job at making her feel comfortable, and I can carry a conversation as long as I need to and catch the cues when to shut it down. She has her walls up the whole time though. You can see when she forcefully shuts down. Its as if her brain is telling you whoa you are enjoying talking to him stop, get distant, create space. Oh well, nothing I can do about that. I know I have made inroads from BD as she says hellos and goodbyes on her on volition and really thanks me for things such as when I make dinner, she sometimes even starts non-kid conversations although the all are on the surface level. I don't have my hopes up for anything, but at least some progress has been made towards being amicable, maybe even friendly.

2 points I need to share.
Last night she said she was going out with gal pal on Sat for dinner. I said "Again?" I didn't mean to let that slip out. I am not sure I should show too much interest in her GAL choices. Anyways she said yeah again, gal pal (old coworker from out of state but new to our area) needs to get some friends here. I can't always be her hang out buddy. I have things I want to do and not be tied to hanging out with her all the time. ( I take it at face value, but who knows if she is telling the truth about any of this. Believe nothing they say, and 50% of what they do.)
I say well I am sure you will have a good time, me and the kids might go watch some cfb or figure something fun to do while you are out.

This morning she talked about all this paperwork we need to do for mediation tomorrow. She hasn't done anything other than the talk about some of the stuff we want to split up and draw up a partial list. She starts assigning me tasks. Somethings I obviously have to handle ie my retirement statements. She tells me I need to pull up bank statements. Pay off some debt we agreed to eliminate, etc. I tell her you know, you can easily take care of this you don't need me to do it. I leave it at that, but I am thinking I should have just told her to just do it herself. She acts or thinks like tomorrow is going to be a one and done. I think its possibly going to get extended and then she is going to blame this garbage on me, because she is not prepared.

Anyway I am not going to work tomorrow because mediation is going to $uck and I will probably want some time to process this alone without any moods affecting anyone at work. Just glad I have IC after.

So wife came home and took the oldest D to her rec activity. On the drive there she called me up to push paperwork on me. I told her you can take care of x,y,z. She wants me to get started on marital list. I told her the splitting of stuff is unresolved. We have to figure it all out. She said I don't care if it takes till midnight we are easy and I want this one and done tomorrow. I told her I don't know if it's going to be only one session. She said for her mental health it has to be one session, she isn't sure she can make it an additional month in the house with me, if it does she has to figure things out.
Her tone and attitude $ucked so it took a lot of willpower, but I stayed calm. I told her just do what you need to do. I said I can't work on our mediation lists until she gets home because I am busy feeding and bathing the other 2 kids.

Well so much for the niceness over the past few days. She just has to get the hell away from me like I am a disease. I hope she never turns on the kids like this down the road. I am a little angry, but I will get over it.
I need to open her cage and let that wild animal out.

Hey there,

Read this thread when you have a chance:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224

"Her tone and attitude $ucked so it took a lot of willpower, but I stayed calm. "
Perfect! Just listen and validate.

Well I think we have 90% of things in order for tomorrow. 10% is still a big IF. I had to get real firm with her a few times in the beginning because of the disrespect she started showing me as well. I calmly told her is she continued to disrespect me or insult me I would walk away. She said we have the mediator tomorrow we have to finish tonight. I told her I want to work on this with her, but if she doesn't stop then we can't complete this and we will have to find another way to resolve our issues. She figured it out real fast that I wasn't putting up with any B.S. and calmed down.
She doesn't want to pay child support. She is being very selfish and she thinks the money she will be paying for child support is just going in my pocket for me to spend willy nilly. She said whats the point of her earning her higher paying salary if she is just paying me. She doesn't really understand this isn't alimony. Every dime she would give me would be to feed, clothe, etc the kids.
We also send our kids to private school and I told her I want tuition to be based off of our % of salaries. She didn't like that one as well. She also gets bent out of shape about the 401(k)'s being evened out. She is just so d@mn selfish. She thinks she made her way without any support. Its insane! We did it together.
I validated her concerns as she brought them up. What I wanted to say was divorce isn't supposed to be nice or easy. If you want to be selfish you are going to have to live with the consequences of your actions. This is why you shouldn't divorce and should work out your problems with your spouse. This isn't going to be another time where you get your way or throw a fit until you do. Good thing I just DB and didn't say this stuff.

Tommorow, will be interesting at the mediator. I am going to stand up to her and not rollover but I feel like this is probably going to push us back a few steps in DB.

Good Luck.

R2C thanks!

The whole night didn't go badly. After I was firm and no nonsense with her she snapped out of her spiteful mood. Most of the night was very collaborative focusing on the kids well being. I definitely said some things that got through to her that shows I care about the kids and care about her in regards to the kids. She is going to give me the heirlooms to pass onto the kids so that was good. It just fell apart at the end when she started talking child support and the kids tuition. I was internally angry as per my post above. However I stayed outwardly calm and validated the heck out of her feelings and thoughts.

Right now I feel like the lighthouse and her ship is so far out to sea she will never find her way back, like she is a lost cause.

I just feel bad for our kids.

Oh and on a final note we agreed that kids can not meet anyone we date for at least 6 months to 1 year. She said we get to meet the other person before the kids do. Great, so if she is with OM 6 months from now I get to break his nose this spring!

Sorry bad joke. The nose breaking part.

Well today is mediation day. First big step towards the big D. I am not feeling good about any of this. I feel uneasy and a bit sick in my stomach. My heart is still aching and grieving. In the back of my mind I am hoping for that Hail Mary pass that isn't going to come. I know I will be alright, but it doesn't make me feel better. This morning I have been doing a lot of praying for myself, my wife, my kids, and everyone on these boards. If you feel it in your heart say a prayer for me, please.

I need to stand firm and tall. I need to be the lighthouse.

TF,

Good luck today man.

This is the worst part of it. After this is settled and you get her out of the house, things get way easier. Stick to your guns and do not settle for less than you are entitled to receive. If you do you will regret in later.

AS has posted before that he surveyed 13-14 people that he knew who were divorced. He said in all but 1-2 the person who walked away tried to reconcile. I think he said 10 had already moved on and weren't interested. Turns out the grass isn't usually greener.

You will get through this and have a great life if you choose.

Hang in there twofeet, you can get through this. Stay strong!

Originally Posted by LH19

AS has posted before that he surveyed 13-14 people that he knew who were divorced. He said in all but 1-2 the person who walked away tried to reconcile. I think he said 10 had already moved on and weren't interested. Turns out the grass isn't usually greener.

This is a crazy statistic and I find it hard to believe. Not saying it's wrong. If anything, it's encouraging. Either way, you get to have what's best -- a reconciled M, or a stronger you.

I'm right behind you on the path. Hoping to see you hold your head up high so I have someone to look up to. But do it for you! You got this, man.

Good luck today TF! Prayer sent out for you!

B,

It is a small sample size. You have to remember that the statistics read about people remarrying don't include the ones where the LBS says they are not interested.

My brother-inlaw remarried his W and then D'd for the second time lol.

One of my good friends parents got back together after be divorced for 38 years.

It's been a helluva day. Unless there is a divine act of God the break my W from the fog this M is OVER!
So glad I took the day off. I dropped the kids off at school then went for a run to get out any jitters. Came home cleaned up and dressed real nice then went to the lawyer/mediators office. He started the session off not really pushing it but kept hinting reconciliation. He understood I was vehemently against and she was the opposite. He later did a one on one breakout session. Apparently my wife got the same soft spoken neutral friendly guy, but when it was my turn his mask came off. It had a serious man to man vibe. No soft spoken vibe but a hard edge. "So TF why is she doing this? " Well she hasn't said much to anyone, but what I understand is that she is saying she has been a mom and wife all these years and now that the kids are just starting to become independent she says she needs to find herself. "So she is seeing someone?" Well yes, I don't know if it's a PA, but definitely an EA, but I cant 100% prove it. There have been phone calls and a crazy amount of texting going back and forth. I cant see what's being said I just have phone bills for proof. When I confronted her she freaked out the first time, but eventually told mr his name when she figured out I already knew. Even though she denies it, and says he is just a friend. It fits the bill of an EA, secret friendship, taking to him about our marital affairs and personal life. When there is smoke there is usually fire. "Well TF I ask because from my experience usually when one spouse is pushing so hard for a D almost bullying for it it's been because of an A."

He then kept asking me why I am here. I would tell him and he would act like that wasn't a good enough answer then ask it again. This happened about 5 times before he finally said you don't have to do this and you don't have to be here. Tell her to get a lawyer and you will see her ass in court. He said she can't bully you take your time. I told him mediation was the most amicable and affordable option and we feel it puts the kids best interest at heart. He was satisfied with that and called my wife in. We came up with 2 options. One is a 50/50 asset split and the other moves things around so I could probably keep the house. I think I want to keep the house.

Anyway while he was working on details W started pushing for me to make a decision right then and there do she could start the filing paperwork today. I stuck to my guns and said she is going to have to wait untilI can review and process all this info. She said TF you just need to set me free. Then the lawyer jumped in and said he refuses to start the D paperwork until we both meet with our mortgage brokers, tax accountant, etc. He said no need for a second session, once our ducks are in a row we can come down for 20min at a later date to process paperwork. After the W and I decide to grab lunch and talk over the details. She was as happy as a clam because she had progress and was excited to move forward towards her new life (This talk is offensive to me but oh well.)

Later I go to my folks house to visit my Dad and just get his wisdom on the sitch. By now I am mentally and physically exhausted. In fact the whole thing made me feel physically ill. Dad says don't worry son this is her loss not yours. Let her go, she is going to hit rock bottom. Son I can see you changing as a person every time you come to visit. I bet she hasn't, isn't, or won't change.

At the IC we talk about how it's time to finally let go. Its apparent she isn't coming back and I need to open the cage to free her and move on. Worked on some skills and goals with the IC.

Now when I got home after counseling my wife had turned nutjob. She was yelling at me about how I was just going to bend her over and screw her. I am just a taker that all I have ever done is take. She just needs more cash, I need to give her more cash since she going to walk away from all our stuff or the rest lithis wasn't agreed on in mediation so no idea what she is talking about). She says I dont communicate with her and I have had 2 hours to give her an answer about cash (I barely walked in the door still no idea what she is talking about. She tells more about this and that. I validate, never raise my voice, stay calm. I did mess up once where she told me to leave the girl bedroom I told her this is our house I go where I want. This launched her into a tirade again. I apologized for that one and told her I respect her space. At the end of the verbal barrage she told me this is the last time she puts her walls down no more arguing walls are going up.. I am thinking thank God cause I am not sure I want to see the chaos behind those walls. I do my best to diffuse and stay calm. She calms down and I stay the hell away from her for the rest of the night.

Don't try to predict the future. Your W throwing fits is no different than any other WW. It sounds like you're doing well and becoming more detached, which means you are acting more like than person you really are and want to be. Good.

TF,

You did great man even with the way you handled the lawyer. Do not go into court that's where the lawyers make all the money. Keep the marital home if you can, the kids need the stability. Can you ask your parents for help?

As far as cash, if she wants more cash then she sacrifices more retirement. Absolutely do not give her any concessions.

Word for word my W said the same thing your W said even to the point the kids are self sufficient now. They must teach it in WW 101 lol!

You are handling this like a class act champ. Open the cage door!

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

I forgot to mention in her tirade last night she complained how it wasn't fair that I kicked her out of the MBR. I told her you know why I kicked you out are you sure you want to go down that road again. She said she wouldn't do something like that (EA) that's not her or who she is. I said I hear what she is saying, and if she would like we can review the facts that lead to that decision. She of course immediately changed topics and went on a rant about something else during her tirade/ 1 way arguement/fit.

She is back to all sunshine and rainbows this morning. Like her crazy rantings and hurtful things she said last night didn't happen. She got preapproved for a loan last night so she says she is going to start house shopping and wouldn't mind me helping her. I just listened and told her it would be nice if she stayed on our side of town.
No way in hell I am going to help her house shop. Unfortunately, the sooner she is out the sooner I can have some emotional and mental normalcy around here.

TF,

See she doesn't like getting kicked out of the MB but she respects it. Most guys who come here will not remove them from the MB out of fear.

I looked at a house with my Ex. At that point I accepted it was going to happen and since my kids were going to be there 50 percent of the time it was my best interest to make sure it was a suitable safe home. I understand this is very new to you and your emotions are still raw.

I am a big on quotes and live now by the one in my signature and the following:

Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them - that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like. Lao Tzu

F***ing nuts these WS. Mine is exactly the same. The tirades she goes on are unbelievable, Monday PM she texted me that she was calling the police and why did I hit her and she was two floors above me and I was right next to my S the whole time. She called me every name in the book...again. I just drew my line and walked away to my room. 30 minutes later she was all smiles jumping in my bed...I'm like WTF. Unfortunately I can't get her to settle so I am in this dysfunctional situation....but def not a M. Kudos to you for staying strong!

Twofeet,

It sounds like you handled it pretty well. You stood up for yourself and didn't take any of her crap. I think if you can keep it away from court and lawyers you will probably save a ton of cash, but don't do that at the cost of acquiescing to unfair demands on her part. My only question is why did you go out to lunch with her afterwards? That strikes me as NGS.

Maybe with kids it is different, but I wouldn't help her find a house/apartment. She has to take responsibility for her decisions and life.

Originally Posted by Davide

Twofeet,

My only question is why did you go out to lunch with her afterwards? That strikes me as NGS.

Maybe with kids it is different, but I wouldn't help her find a house/apartment. She has to take responsibility for her decisions and life.

IMO this is all about expectations. It's not NGS if you have zero expectations other than getting lunch and trying to come to some sort of an agreement.

If you are helping her find a house based solely on the welfare of your kids that is not NGS.

NGS is doing something based on the premise that you want something in return.

Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Davide

Twofeet,

My only question is why did you go out to lunch with her afterwards? That strikes me as NGS.

Maybe with kids it is different, but I wouldn't help her find a house/apartment. She has to take responsibility for her decisions and life.

IMO this is all about expectations. It's not NGS if you have zero expectations other than getting lunch and trying to come to some sort of an agreement.

If you are helping her find a house based solely on the welfare of your kids that is not NGS.

NGS is doing something based on the premise that you want something in return.

It wasn't NGS, the mediation session went long and we were both hungry. We had some off the books negotiations we needed to work out due to the new plan we came up with in mediation. I treated it like a business lunch when I am negotiating contracts and plans with my customers. Friendly, but not too personal and just sticking to the task at hand. We both left the lunch and the mediation feeling positive about the decision that is until that evening when her switch flipped and she went nuts.

As far as housing goes I won't be an active participant, but if she finds something she likes I can take a look at it for the benefit of the kids. I will let her know my reasons and boundaries so she understands why and what I am willing to do.

Quote

Now when I got home after counseling my wife had turned nutjob. She was yelling at me about how I was just going to bend her over and screw her. I am just a taker that all I have ever done is take. She just needs more cash, I need to give her more cash since she going to walk away from all our stuff or the rest lithis wasn't agreed on in mediation so no idea what she is talking about). She says I dont communicate with her and I have had 2 hours to give her an answer about cash (I barely walked in the door still no idea what she is talking about.

By the time you got home, she would have had enough time after the morning meeting to get on the phone with her girlfriends or whoever is whispering in her ear. Especially if any of them are divorced or male bashers, it could get her worked up pretty quickly. Of course, I don't know that this is what happened. She may have not talked to anyone, and had just spent that time rehashing things in her brain. WW's can be greedy. They can be unreasonable. I will tell any LBH to give his WW what he believes is right/fair (if he has that option in the D), but don't give her any more than that...thinking she will be so appreciative that it will sway her opinion of him. It won't, b/c of the terrible negative attitude she has toward him.

I see some (certainly not all) WW's who are not interested in the stuff acquired during the M, and they aren't even interested in keeping the marital home. They just want money. These types are ready to just drop everything and run off with their lover, or move into his house, or they think they'll buy all new stuff for their new life.

As you said, "nut job"...�.and it probably won't be the last you'll see her displaying this behavior. After the meeting, things were getting more real when she saw that you couldn't be pushed into doing everything right then & there. So, by the time you got home, things were getting a little tense for her. What does she do? She goes into her bullying routine. Screaming/yelling putdowns at the H is a form of bullying to place enough emotional pressure on the H in order to get what she wants.

Weigh the options and do what you believe is best.

Oh yes, Sandi. I've gotten better at noticing when the "coaches" are talking, it's almost a game now for me. Just a different tone or verbiage, and hopefully others will notice that in their sitch as well. The "coaches" are oh so helpful. Also, the coaches are great at causing emotional swings b/c they are validating bad behaviors. So the WS is admitting they know it was wrong to have an affair one moment, and the next it was none of your business b/c blahblahblah.

And you're absolutely right, when people are dealing with the uncertainty and the fear and pain, they tend to lash out and want to blame others. They want to go back to controlling their sitch and not facing reality. Then, when you remain calm, tell the truth, don't engage them in the tirade, it's back to reality. For now. But if you establish yourself here like you have been, your outcome will be great no matter what.

Really liking how you're handling things TwoFeet.

Originally Posted by sandi2

Quote

Now when I got home after counseling my wife had turned nutjob. She was yelling at me about how I was just going to bend her over and screw her. I am just a taker that all I have ever done is take. She just needs more cash, I need to give her more cash since she going to walk away from all our stuff or the rest lithis wasn't agreed on in mediation so no idea what she is talking about). She says I dont communicate with her and I have had 2 hours to give her an answer about cash (I barely walked in the door still no idea what she is talking about.

By the time you got home, she would have had enough time after the morning meeting to get on the phone with her girlfriends or whoever is whispering in her ear. Especially if any of them are divorced or male bashers, it could get her worked up pretty quickly. Of course, I don't know that this is what happened. She may have not talked to anyone, and had just spent that time rehashing things in her brain. WW's can be greedy. They can be unreasonable. I will tell any LBH to give his WW what he believes is right/fair (if he has that option in the D), but don't give her any more than that...thinking she will be so appreciative that it will sway her opinion of him. It won't, b/c of the terrible negative attitude she has toward him.

I see some (certainly not all) WW's who are not interested in the stuff acquired during the M, and they aren't even interested in keeping the marital home. They just want money. These types are ready to just drop everything and run off with their lover, or move into his house, or they think they'll buy all new stuff for their new life.

As you said, "nut job"...�.and it probably won't be the last you'll see her displaying this behavior. After the meeting, things were getting more real when she saw that you couldn't be pushed into doing everything right then & there. So, by the time you got home, things were getting a little tense for her. What does she do? She goes into her bullying routine. Screaming/yelling putdowns at the H is a form of bullying to place enough emotional pressure on the H in order to get what she wants.

Weigh the options and do what you believe is best.

Thanks for weighing in on my sitch Sandi.
There are times when she just flips and I can see it coming as clear as a storm on the horizon. This was not one of those times and it definitely felt like someone was whispering poison in her ear. I really don't know a lot of her new friends and the ones I do know I don't know that well. Her gal pal who moved from her old job, while married and happy is a bit toxic and a big time rumor spreader. She would often discuss this with me in the past and I would always caution her to be careful as I have worked and dealt with some real toxic trash in the past. Heck my wife doesn't even like her that much, but hasn't always been the best at making friends so she is a friend until she can upgrade. Lastly, it could even be the EA, from what I gather he has a sordid past with regards to divorce. Who knows?

What I do know is that some of the things she was saying yesterday literally made no sense. Such as I had 2 hours to give her answers on money. Not even sure what she was talking about and she couldn't explain it. There were other confusing things that were said as well. The other thing that I know is that she wouldn't just go run to the OM and shack up with him. She knows I would drain the bank to come after her and that her parent would flip their sh!t and come after her. She would be 100% cut off from her parents money. I do feel strongly that she is in love with the fantasy of being free of me and her marital life and being in her own place. She wants to dump her past and wants as much cash as she can get to start new. Unfortunately, it sounds like her parents have changed their minds and are willing to give her a sizeable loan to go with her post D cash to get a bigger and better house. I say unfortunately because I think when reality hits and she doesn't figure out how to manage her finances she will make negative choices that will impact the kids to keep her selfishness going. Maybe this will break the fog. Who can say, only time will tell. I just have to live in the present I cannot speculate the future.

One thing I forgot to mention was that during the tirade yesterday she gave me a timeline of Sat to give her answers as far as the mortgage, financing, and info from my tax guy. I told her that I will work on it, however she will need to be patient because I wont have answers until next week. I wouldn't budge and she just threatens me, but they are empty threats. She doesn't really have anything she can do. Go to a lawyer to spend more money and drag it out longer? Sure go ahead I'm not the one itching and scratching to get out of the M.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Oh yes, Sandi. I've gotten better at noticing when the "coaches" are talking, it's almost a game now for me. Just a different tone or verbiage, and hopefully others will notice that in their sitch as well. The "coaches" are oh so helpful. Also, the coaches are great at causing emotional swings b/c they are validating bad behaviors. So the WS is admitting they know it was wrong to have an affair one moment, and the next it was none of your business b/c blahblahblah.

And you're absolutely right, when people are dealing with the uncertainty and the fear and pain, they tend to lash out and want to blame others. They want to go back to controlling their sitch and not facing reality. Then, when you remain calm, tell the truth, don't engage them in the tirade, it's back to reality. For now. But if you establish yourself here like you have been, your outcome will be great no matter what.

Really liking how you're handling things TwoFeet.

Thanks man!

I really feel like this is just a combination of the perfect storm of unhealthy, outside influences such as friends, EA. Some mental problems such as depression, unrealistic expectations in the M. Her grass is always greener syndrome which I have never been able to properly handle in the M. My own fault for not recognizing the seriousness of her issues as well as the problems I would bring to the marriage table.

I will just deal with it. Its only going to make me grow and become stronger.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Its only going to make me grow and become stronger.

You have know idea my man how true this is! No idea!

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Originally Posted by sandi2

Quote

Now when I got home after counseling my wife had turned nutjob. She was yelling at me about how I was just going to bend her over and screw her. I am just a taker that all I have ever done is take. She just needs more cash, I need to give her more cash since she going to walk away from all our stuff or the rest lithis wasn't agreed on in mediation so no idea what she is talking about). She says I dont communicate with her and I have had 2 hours to give her an answer about cash (I barely walked in the door still no idea what she is talking about.

By the time you got home, she would have had enough time after the morning meeting to get on the phone with her girlfriends or whoever is whispering in her ear. Especially if any of them are divorced or male bashers, it could get her worked up pretty quickly. Of course, I don't know that this is what happened. She may have not talked to anyone, and had just spent that time rehashing things in her brain. WW's can be greedy. They can be unreasonable. I will tell any LBH to give his WW what he believes is right/fair (if he has that option in the D), but don't give her any more than that...thinking she will be so appreciative that it will sway her opinion of him. It won't, b/c of the terrible negative attitude she has toward him.

I see some (certainly not all) WW's who are not interested in the stuff acquired during the M, and they aren't even interested in keeping the marital home. They just want money. These types are ready to just drop everything and run off with their lover, or move into his house, or they think they'll buy all new stuff for their new life.

As you said, "nut job"...�.and it probably won't be the last you'll see her displaying this behavior. After the meeting, things were getting more real when she saw that you couldn't be pushed into doing everything right then & there. So, by the time you got home, things were getting a little tense for her. What does she do? She goes into her bullying routine. Screaming/yelling putdowns at the H is a form of bullying to place enough emotional pressure on the H in order to get what she wants.

Weigh the options and do what you believe is best.

The other thing that I know is that she wouldn't just go run to the OM and shack up with him. She knows I would drain the bank to come after her and that her parent would flip their sh!t and come after her. She would be 100% cut off from her parents money. I do feel strongly that she is in love with the fantasy of being free of me and her marital life and being in her own place.

I want to clarify this part of my response to sandi because as it stands I don't like it. If it's just my W and she leaves because of D, takes as much money as she can and shacks up with OM would be upsetting. However, I would shrug it off and keep moving forward. What I ment from the quoted statement was because we have kids that's where I would take off the gloves and fight dirty. I don't think I have to worry about that because we are both about putting kids first, but I am ready to go to bat for them even against my W if need be.

If you both were about putting the kids first, you would stay married and work on your isssues together.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

If you both were about putting the kids first, you would stay married and work on your isssues together.

R2C,

I wish it wasn't this way. I wish she would stick it out, work on our problems, and put the kids first. Sadly I can't make her. I can only control myself and DB.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

If you both were about putting the kids first, you would stay married and work on your isssues together.

Tell me about it. My W's father even told how important it is to stay together for the kids. I loved living the married life, and dont believe in D, but i really do question marriage at this point. For better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health??? Not many people keeping their vows.

Originally Posted by equalzr

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

If you both were about putting the kids first, you would stay married and work on your isssues together.

Tell me about it. My W's father even told how important it is to stay together for the kids. I loved living the married life, and dont believe in D, but i really do question marriage at this point. For better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health??? Not many people keeping their vows.

You know I took my vows serious. I took them with the intent of holding them till the grave. I have broad shoulders and I can carry the weight, both my baggage and hers. I am tough and I can deal with our life problems. What is disappointing or rather heartbreaking is that their is an asterisk behind her vows. She was going around this summer telling people how we will never get divorced and our marriage is great, and she would even tell me similar things. This has made me think maybe she never had my back or had it with an asterisk. Maybe this whole time I am just standing here alone and didn't even realize it. I think its good to be independently strong, emotionally secure and satisfied. However its nice knowing you have a partner in crime to have your back when you deal with life's problems. Events like these really shake your core and make you look into the mirror and reevaluate your life. I am changing, I am growing, I will be stronger for the better. This may feel like a road bump, but I tell my self everyday this is just a catalyst to speed up that process.

Well I went home for lunch today. Went upstairs to put some of the daughter's stuff away in their room. Wife's pillow and blanket was on the couch she sleeps in up there. Something just came over me and I laid on the couch and buried my face in her pillow and held onto her blanket. The smell of her just brought up a lot of good memories and I had a good hard long cry. It felt good to just let go. It wasn't crying for longing, or crying for why me, why did this happen. It was a letting go like grieving as if she had passed. In a sense she has, all that remains is a distorted reflection of who she is. It felt good to get it off my chest like things were lighter. I went back to work and felt better.

I had dinner with my folks and sis. Sis started showing me FB of W. Looks like W posted pics of our kids on FB which was always an agreement by both of us to never do. It made me so mad I dropped a bunch of F bombs in front of my mom which in my family is a big no go. I noticed OM and W are FB friends and looks like they comment on each others pics. (Sis isn't stupid suspects there is an OM) Gave the phone back and just told sis looking at W FB just makes me angry and don't want to ruin dinner. Asked her just to let me know if W posts any FB pics of kids in a bad sitch. Family wanted to talk the whole time about W, the D, mediation. Didn't share much, but definitely need to build better boundaries with them. This sitch is feeling like it's all consuming and I don't want it to be.

Came home and W was in a happy mood because she was going to look at a couple houses.

Btw what is a truth dart?

Don't look at your W's facebook. Tell your friends and family that you don't need to see it. Realize that before you look at it next time.

Truth dart is when you hold the WS's feet to the fire when they try to change history or are flat out lying.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

what is a truth dart?

Off the top of my head:

"Stop, we both know you are lying"

"If you truly cared about the well being of our children, you would work on the marriage"

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Twofeet

what is a truth dart?

Off the top of my head:

"Stop, we both know you are lying"

"If you truly cared about the well being of our children, you would work on the marriage"

How often do I throw out a truth dart? I have plenty of opportunities. I unknowingly threw some out already.
I had an opportunity this morning for one similar to the children one you stated R2C.

TF,

IMO are a waste of time. They know the truth so there is no need to call them out on it.

The way the world is setup now the odds were so stacked against you to go the distance when you got together at 17& 15. I'm pretty sure this would have been the outcome no matter what you did or didn't do.

Quote

I do feel strongly that she is in love with the fantasy of being free of me and her marital life and being in her own place.

You know how some teenagers (who have never had to hold down a job and pay bills) think they can just quit school and get an apartment and have a fine car.....and everything else? That's kind of what you have in a lot of WW's. I think it's worse if it's a W who has never had the responsibility of financially supporting the family. Speaking from my experience, I always had to work hard while raising my family. Compared to what I've read regarding a lot of WW's, I think I stayed fairly realistic about my finances when I was going through my wayward time.

I won't say all waywardness comes at the hand of being spoiled or pampered, b/c that's not completely true. And by "spoiled" and "pampered", I don't mean it's always in the financial sense, b/c it's not. I think it would be interesting to study the subject of spoiled/pampered WW's vs the others...... but that's probably just me. Having been pampered, seems to add to the WW's sense of entitlement. I think all WW's have a certain amount of it, but those spoiled b'tches are the worst.

Originally Posted by LH19

TF,
The way the world is setup now the odds were so stacked against you to go the distance when you got together at 17& 15. I'm pretty sure this would have been the outcome no matter what you did or didn't do.

LH19 could you expand on this statement? I am interested in your perspective.

Not sure it matters, but maybe it does. Some additional info. Both of us come from the same religious backgrounds. She is the oldest child and was a typical strict religious girl like it sounds like many of these WW & WAW are. We saved ourselves till marriage. We moved out of our family homes and into an apartment together after marriage. Our wedding was a very traditional religious wedding. All this was done after we graduated from college. Very traditional compared to what's typically done today.

I do believe a big reason for my WAW leaving me is that she has never really been independent at any point in her life. She was brought up fairly spoiled, and I always gave in to everything she ever wanted.

Interesting thought...

Originally Posted by EZdozit

I do believe a big reason for my WAW leaving me is that she has never really been independent at any point in her life. She was brought up fairly spoiled, and I always gave in to everything she ever wanted.

Interesting thought...

EZdozit, that is similar to my W. While she grew up in a strict religious setting, her parents where very high up in the career world and she really never has had to go without. A bit spoiled you could say, even as an adult. We have had a lot of help from her family even when it was unwanted or unneeded. She is independent, but never had to be independent if that makes sense. She would often complain to me that her parents should help out more. I also pretty much gave in even if I dragged my feet at times. Sometimes this just feels like her throwing the ultimate or last big fit to get what she wants. I know when I told my folks she wanted a D my father mentioned her being spoiled and something similar to throwing a fit. Once again you just can never know unless the WAW/WW tells you.

TF no doubt your wife is probably in a state of relief right now. She's made the decision to divorce you, you two are moving forward with that plan and she probably right now feels she has to go through with this course of action. But not all hope is lost with the big D. Once she is on her own she will no doubt see the grass is not greener on the other side of that fence she's been sitting on for a while now. While you are feeling a sense of loss and she is feeling a sense of relief the balance of power is no doubt on her side. As long as she will feel that you will take her back at the drop of a hat she will wield that power as she sees fit. So while she is exploring her options for a future, possible with this other person, she no doubts is still looking at you as her backup plan. Don't be her backup plan, back out and let her be. Only talk to her about the important stuff, kids, and finances. Other than that don't tell her what you are doing, don't ask her what she is doing, don't text her call her or email and don't answer her correspondence unless it's about the kids or finances. You have to change her mindset from you being a backup to you being the starter the guy she wants. This will eventually make her question her decision. This might take a while but she will get into an argument with the OM and she will call or text you and ask you how you are doing. Your response to such inquiries should not come right away and when you do answer "doing great thank you for asking" and that's it. After a while, her mood will go from relief to what did I do? Why did I break up my family? She will start to feel a sense of loss and that is when the power will start to start to shift your way. Meanwhile, you work on yourself being a better you. If she asks if you want to meet, meet for coffee, not lunch not dinner but a simple cup of coffee and be ready to make is short but sweet, make her think you have more important things to attend to, leave her wanting more. Maybe when she has dropped the other person and she starts to be more engaging you can take her to dinner and start the slow but steady road to reconciliation.

Again 18,

Thanks for the info. Fortunately, I am already 2 steps ahead of you. I don't call her, only initiate text that involve kids, which is rare. Never answer her calls and return calls on my on time. Only respond to texts that involve kids, finance, household. When I do I keep it to very short statements or yes, no, ok. I don't initiate any convo, but let her carry convo to which I listen, validate, ask questions. I answer her questions, but keep it at the surface level. I can carry convo when needed, but shut it down and don't linger.
She only knows my GAL when kids are involved otherwise I don't share. Basically, I have been DB hard while she is still in the home and I will be able to take the DB to another level once she is gone. Basically even though she is in the house I am trying my hardest to get across to I'm not a plan B.
She has her mind dead set on D as far as I can tell, and I am going through the mediation route for damage control. Not that I want to do it, but I have my kids to worry about.

And yes she is in a state of relief because she is getting what she wants as always.....

Again18, that was really helpful to hear, as someone who is just a couple of steps behind Twofeet. Hope it ends up being true for both of us.

Originally Posted by sandi2

Quote

I do feel strongly that she is in love with the fantasy of being free of me and her marital life and being in her own place.

You know how some teenagers (who have never had to hold down a job and pay bills) think they can just quit school and get an apartment and have a fine car.....and everything else? That's kind of what you have in a lot of WW's. I think it's worse if it's a W who has never had the responsibility of financially supporting the family. Speaking from my experience, I always had to work hard while raising my family. Compared to what I've read regarding a lot of WW's, I think I stayed fairly realistic about my finances when I was going through my wayward time.

I won't say all waywardness comes at the hand of being spoiled or pampered, b/c that's not completely true. And by "spoiled" and "pampered", I don't mean it's always in the financial sense, b/c it's not. I think it would be interesting to study the subject of spoiled/pampered WW's vs the others...... but that's probably just me. Having been pampered, seems to add to the WW's sense of entitlement. I think all WW's have a certain amount of it, but those spoiled b'tches are the worst.

My W has always worked and has always made more money than me so she bared that financial responsibility. However, her sense of financial management from a family standpoint has severely lacked. I had to manage the finances because she couldn't. She doesn't stick to budgets and at times spends it faster than we have earned it. A common complaint is that the two of us make good money why don't we have any money in the bank. Then I have to show her the budget sheet and how we broke it over and over. We have had this convo so many times silly.

I think her issue is that she has come from a lifestyle from her family where it's always new cars, new homes, nice vacations, etc., etc. Pampered definitely. Spoiled maybe, the attitude sometimes reflects being spoiled. She spoils the hell out of our kids and I have always been the one to temper her. We have had huge fights in the past where she would come home with shopping bags full of kids toys and things that were unneeded.

She, like me, is also very stubborn/hard headed. I sometimes think that if she changed her mind about D she would still go through with it because of how stubborn she can be.

TF,

To expand on it more, what I mean is nowadays woman can provide for themselves, divorce is not taboo, cellphones to carry on EAs, ridiculous shows like the bachelor shows glorifying divorce, movies like Bad Moms, online dating etc.

My point is you could have been the perfect husband and these outside influences would likely at some point influence your W due to the longevity of your R and her lack of experiences.

With my children I will steer them in the direction of becoming independent young focus on their career date for a really long time so they don't feel like they are missed anything when they are middle aged.

Well yesterday was fun GAL with kids and watching cfb with family. Wife came home pretty late last night, but was pretty eager to come sit by my bed and tell me all about it. It woke me up and the oldest D who was scared so she slept in my bed. I just actively listened so she knew I was engaged.

I took oldest D to church. W was friendly before I left. D8 was causing me to run late so I was rushing, and W was trying to fix her hair. My interaction was a little blunt so she took offense. I apologized, put my hand on her shoulder (why the hell did put my hand on her???), and explained that I was in rush and didn't mean to offend. She accepted the apology.

The oldest D and I sat next to MIL in church. Church reading and sermon was about divorce and not getting divorced for selfish reasons and for the pursuit of individual happiness and to hell with everything and everyone else. Basically described my W to a T. It hurt to hear and I was a bit emotional. After church wife was looking up houses and waiting for her mom to come by to go look at houses. (After church MIL went to visit GMIL) W price range has went back up to pretty expensive, for a day there she was looking at affordable. Oh well hopefully she makes a smart choice. We started folding some laundry and she started talking about how this is going to be hard on the kids. I agree with her and say it's going to be hard on them and us. She says it's good she has been getting away and spending less time with them. I ask her what do you mean. She says she is regretting some of her decisions. I say okay can you explain? She says no not really. She then goes on to say how the kids are used to having her around 100% of the time (thats a bit of an embellishment), but I could be gone and come back. I told her I always encouraged her to solo GAL. She said no that's not it, I don't want to talk about it. I said ok I understand, if you feel like you want to talk, I will listen otherwise I will just need to keep going about my business.

I guess that's the nicest way at the time to basically say if you want to talk then talk otherwise don't waste my time. I guess this is a 180 since I am usually more harsh.

Right before her mom came she wanted to talk church. Asked why I went to X church when Y church was closer. I said I like X church it's a good one. Priest has good sermons. She says it's so far away. I say why does your mom go to X church? Why does my folks go to Z church if they are far from their house? She says I don't know. She said she is dropping the Catholic faith due to the whole way they handled molestation allegations. She says she found a non-denominational church she want to attend. I say well I agree it wasn't handled well, however all Faith's deal with terrible stuff like this you just don't always hear about, Catholics have a big target. She says just don't let the kids be altar servers. I just say, look if you find a church you like and you want me to take the kids to it then I can do that. I don't care about what church as much as just going to church, I turned my back to God for too long and church is better than no church.

Not really sure that convo was something I needed to share with this board, but I did. I need to be more open especially emotionally to others and myself. I feel that what I post helps with that process.

Yeah and I wish my W was a church to hear the reading and sermon. Not that it would likely do any good.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Yeah and I wish my W was a church to hear the reading and sermon. Not that it would likely do any good.

It wouldnt. Sorry.

My W even went so far as to say a prophet told her to keep moving forward and not to look back. I mean really? God wants you to have an A, go M.I.A on your family, and then get a D?? She conveniently skipped over the messages from a pastor saying keep your families together, sin of the flesh..., and the other various nessages she has heard. These WW are some weird creatures and their minds will spin any and everything to support their cause. If it doesnt support it they will lash out.

She has currently locked herself in the bathroom and is crying pretty hard. She wants me to keep the kids away. I told her if she needs to talk I will listen, then I walked away.

Just be there for the kids so hopefully they dont witness it. What led up this, anything specific?

Originally Posted by equalzr

Just be there for the kids so hopefully they dont witness it. What led up this, anything specific?

I'm playing with the kids to keep them from seeking their mom.

Pretty much read my previous posts from today. She went house shopping with her mom. She found something said she was going to put in an offer this week. Asked if she could proceed with finalizing mediation. I said do what you need to do. I did some handyman jobs around the house. We had dinner, but W ate upstairs to watch her show. Gave her space. DB like a madman. All weekend I have been working on staying very confident, nonchalant, good mood, basically like I am moving on. She had been in high spirits all day. All smiles laughed at a few of my jokes.
Maybe it's all hitting her, maybe its guilt, maybe she is just riding the rollercoaster.
I think I did the right thing. If I truly understood women I probably wouldn't be in this sitch.

Well two hours later she came out of my bathroom eyes all bloodshot from crying. I said are you ok? Do you need to talk? She said no she would be fine she just wanted her space. I said okay and then I went and put the kids to bed. We said our good nights and that was the end of that.

Love from a distance. Be the lighthouse.

Something D8 decided to share with me on the way home from church yesterday. She was talking about how wife is always looking at new houses never happy with our house. "Dad, God gives us what we need not what we want." Very true I tell her. Even though she is in the dark the insights of children sometimes are very piercing whether they know it or not.
Maybe I don't understand the ultimate purpose, but it may be what's needed not what's wanted.

TF you're doing good, continue to give her her space. This isn't the time to tell her she doesn't have to do this, she's grieving the loss of your relationship. It seems like she might be questioning it and she probably is but she is also rationalizing her decision and her grief is part of that process. Stay the course you are doing fine. I feel like reconciliation is in your future, but you need to stay the course. Give her more space and keep her wondering if you are really doing as well as she sees you are doing. She is cracking a bit but don't latch on to those cracks act like you don't even notice them. She will use these little insights to see if you are still available, you need to make her think you are actually happy with the idea of this D that maybe you aren't going to be available. You have to make her believe now that if she wants to leave that her life will change and you may not be there to catch her if she falls. I know you want her to think she can always depend on you but as long as she thinks this she will start climbing right up that that cliff thinking you are the anchor her rope is tied to and you will save her if anything goes wrong. the thrill climbing up that click knowing you will be fine no matter what happens is exciting but thinking maybe the rope isn't tied off to a secure enough anchor makes it scary and makes that anchor more valuable than ever. Be that anchor that she needs but don't let her know you are tied to her rope. You are running a marathon, not a sprint. You are doing just fine hang in there.

Pretty amped up right now barely avoided a fight. She put an offer on the house today said the earnest money was coming out of the checking account. I just said that's fine can you give me a 24 hr notice if you start pulling heavily from checking so I make sure we are covered. She is okay with that. However in her talking about it, she goes from this was a bit unplanned last minute to I should have known she was going to put an offer in and I should know I need to keep checking fat right now. I don't argue with her weird logic, I can't read her mind.
Next she wants to talk splitting up marital stuff (house items). Its just written we will split it equitably. I told her we go do a line by line itemization and bring it to the mediator or we can do it off books were she takes what she wants and I cut a check for what we think is fair. During this she starts crying and going on and on about how I am selfish. She has been thinking about me the whole time. She is just putting me first and I am being selfish like our whole marriage. I validate her feelings but let her know that just like her I am just trying to make sure I can provide for the kids and this is not about me. Then square up to her firmly and tell her when she walks away, because this is her decision to do so, neither of us are going to fill like we got a raw deal. She smiles and says thank you, says she feels much better now. Looks like I have put her at ease. Now I want to test something.... Now we have come to an agreement and she isn't crying and smiling I say hug it out? She gives me a disgusted hateful look and says No! Alright I say and walk off. Just what I thought. So folks, I feel like I am doing the right thing, but I kind of feel like I am being manipulated.
Sometimes I think I have been gaslit by her.

I had to run so I couldn't complete previous post. I feel like I did and said the right thing, we should be fair and no one should get a financial raw deal. W is in a good mood, but I kind of feel crummy, and I am not sure why. When she talked I would give her my full attention, but when I need to speak she would pull up her phone or do something else. I would stop talking until she would give me her full attention. I am not the one cut and running, why do I feel the need to justify my intentions to her? It felt a bit weak. Probably because she was saying I am being so hard with her.

It's like I am summiting one peak only to find a bigger mountain behind it.

I think I need to rewrite my DB goals.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Now we have come to an agreement and she isn't crying and smiling I say hug it out? She gives me a disgusted hateful look and says No! Alright I say and walk off. Just what I thought. So folks, I feel like I am doing the right thing, but I kind of feel like I am being manipulated.

Absolutely it is manipulation and you had to learn a tough lesson there. You look out for you and the kids. Zero concessions. It's all business now.

Last night before bed she showed me pics of the house she put an offer on. I honestly tell her it looks like a nice place. She is either jealous or remorseful and makes side comments the whole time about how it's not as nice as our current place even though it costs just about the same. (Its in a more expensive area closer to the city) How I am getting the better place (this was her choice). I just stay positive and tell her it looks like a great place for her and the kids. I get her to tell me more about the home to keep her off the negative. She says she wont live there long. I say at least 2 years to avoid capital gains? She says yes until she has built enough money up to move onto something better. I say well it looks like a nice home and should meet all your needs. She makes some comments about it being good enough for now. This is a good example of our dynamic. One is half full one is half empty.

Yesterday was a good day emotionally for me. I was doing awesome all day until that evening when she got home and went off about marital household items and money. She sees someone who stayed calm and uneffected and fully engaged. As I said in the previous post, afterwards internally I was just feeling like garbage. This morning I feel like there is a big hole in my chest. I was healing and she kind of re-broke my heart, again. I felt like crying this morning, but couldn't. I am starting to run out of tears. I am hurting again and it $ucks. Feels like two steps forward and one step back. Its ironic because she would complain in the past that I wasn't emotional, empathetic, didn't have a heart. Now I am very empathetic, but I have to hide the emotions she wanted to see in the past because she now sees them as a weakness and/or pursuit.

"I felt like crying this morning, but couldn't. I am starting to run out of tears. I am hurting again and it $ucks." Grieving is part of the process. Don't run from it. Allow yourself to go through it. Don't try to suppress it, let it flow (not in front of her).

Stifling emotions will get you no where. Let it out appropriately, then move on.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

However in her talking about it, she goes from this was a bit unplanned last minute to I should have known she was going to put an offer in and I should know I need to keep checking fat right now. I don't argue with her weird logic, I can't read her mind.

She's jumping the gun, she shouldn't be buying a house until the D is final and the assets are split. If I were you I would tell her it's not your job to keep the checking account "fat" so she can run off and buy a house. I would have all finances on lockdown until you figure out how to split everything up. I didn't give my ex a penny until the D was final. When she moved out she rented a house, she didn't buy one until the D was final and she had her half of the D settlement. If your W buys a house while the two of you are still married then technically it could be considered marital assets.

Just remember, you can't "nice" her back. Give her too many concessions before D and in the D and she is as likely to see you as a wimpy pushover as a "good guy". It's fine to be fair in D, but don't let her take advantage of you.

Quote

She has been thinking about me the whole time. She is just putting me first and I am being selfish like our whole marriage.

Yeah you really are selfish in this, leaving the marriage and moving out and looking for another place to live with zero regard for what that is doing to your loyal, loving spouse. Oh wait.

Quote

So folks, I feel like I am doing the right thing, but I kind of feel like I am being manipulated. Sometimes I think I have been gaslit by her.

There's no "think" about it, that is exactly what's happening.

After all this is said and done. She will have lived in 4 houses in the past 4 years. For me it will be 3 obviously. None of these were really career driven moves. Is this normal in today's world? I never felt like it was normal, just along for the ride.

Yep, you got manipulated. She put on the sad face and waterworks and you bit. Tell her she wanted the D, and its not going to be all sunshine and rainbows for either of you. Believe me, shes playing you to get what she wants. She could care less about you.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Twofeet

So folks, I feel like I am doing the right thing, but I kind of feel like I am being manipulated. Sometimes I think I have been gaslit by her.

There's no "think" about it, that is exactly what's happening.

Glad I'm not the only person for whom that word came to mind. I even remember one time when WW gaslit me by saying I was gaslighting her.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

After all this is said and done. She will have lived in 4 houses in the past 4 years. For me it will be 3 obviously. None of these were really career driven moves. Is this normal in today's world? I never felt like it was normal, just along for the ride.

Depends. I think renters do things like this all the time. If you are buying and selling this is very atypical.

Any advice how I should handle this? I feel like I have a fire that needs to be put out.

We have an agreement in place on cash, retirement, housings, kids, etc. We just haven't worked out the details on the household items. The mediator/lawyer told us that if we were in agreement on the hard items, cash, house etc. It would be ok for her to move ahead on a house purchase. I would just have to sign a quit claim on the deed. That is why I was ok with her making the offer because I know how much cash she is going to have and how much I am going to have. I have my assumption paperwork coming in the mail this week on our marital home. She called the mediator/lawyer to start the filing process. On paper her house closing time (if the offer is accepted) and the time the mediator/lawyer thinks to finish the D should be in the same window.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

[quote=Twofeet]However in her talking about it, she goes from this was a bit unplanned last minute to I should have known she was going to put an offer in and I should know I need to keep checking fat right now. I don't argue with her weird logic, I can't read her mind.

Quote

She has been thinking about me the whole time. She is just putting me first and I am being selfish like our whole marriage.

Quote

Yeah you really are selfish in this, leaving the marriage and moving out and looking for another place to live with zero regard for what that is doing to your loyal, loving spouse. Oh wait.

Should I just call her out? Is it ever helpful? I mean things like you said are running through my mind, but I just keep my mouth shut because I don't feel like fighting and arguing anymore. Doesn't get anywhere.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by Twofeet

After all this is said and done. She will have lived in 4 houses in the past 4 years. For me it will be 3 obviously. None of these were really career driven moves. Is this normal in today's world? I never felt like it was normal, just along for the ride.

Depends. I think renters do things like this all the time. If you are buying and selling this is very atypical.

Buying and selling. It has been expensive.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

After all this is said and done. She will have lived in 4 houses in the past 4 years. For me it will be 3 obviously. None of these were really career driven moves. Is this normal in today's world? I never felt like it was normal, just along for the ride.

Definitely not normal. It reminds me of my brother whose W kept pressuring him to agree to buy a bigger house than the one they were in (which was nearly paid off) when he felt they couldn't afford it. He finally agreed to it and a year later she admitted she had been in an affair practically their entire marriage and had "hoped" buying a bigger house would be enough to convince her to stay with him but it wasn't. Years later and just typing that still makes me go WTF?????

Originally Posted by Twofeet

We have an agreement in place on cash, retirement, housings, kids, etc. We just haven't worked out the details on the household items. The mediator/lawyer told us that if we were in agreement on the hard items, cash, house etc. It would be ok for her to move ahead on a house purchase.

I'm surprised to hear that but the mediator knows a lot more about your sitch than I do so I would say go with that.

Quote

I would just have to sign a quit claim on the deed. That is why I was ok with her making the offer because I know how much cash she is going to have and how much I am going to have.

That makes sense, as long as the cash changing hands before the D is well-documented.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

We just haven't worked out the details on the household items.

I was the one that moved out.

I did a room a day.

I started with the room with mostly stuff and ended in the room with mostly her stuff.
I started in my office. Ask wife if there was anything in that room that she wanted.

For example, in the kitchen, I went through and made a pile of items. Had wife look over the items. She took back a few items (Like the kitchen aid blender). I bought a new one. Not worth $800/hr to argue over.

I left the TV, furniture, the bed, the washer dryer etc....The last thing I asked for was the hot tub. Kinda balanced out the other items.

Anything of significant value, one person can assign value and the other can decide who's side of the ballance sheet it goes on.

I am just at the point now where I want her out as fast as possible for inexpensive as I can make it. The sooner I can change the locks the better. I played a part in this silly dance, but good lord I am sorry, I am not taking majority blame on the results. Hell, I don't think I am 50% responsible for this. My biggest failure was going on autopilot and not recognizing some of our issues for how serious they were. This is on her, as usual she is choosing the easy out. All in the name of the pursuit of happiness. I want to work things out just not with this person who my wife has become.

Unfortunately, the biggest losers are always the children.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

I am just at the point now where I want her out as fast as possible for inexpensive as I can make it. The sooner I can change the locks the better. I played a part in this silly dance, but good lord I am sorry, I am not taking majority blame on the results. Hell, I don't think I am 50% responsible for this. My biggest failure was going on autopilot and not recognizing some of our issues for how serious they were. This is on her, as usual she is choosing the easy out. All in the name of the pursuit of happiness. I want to work things out just not with this person who my wife has become.

Unfortunately, the biggest losers are always the children.

This is exactly how I feel in my sitch TF

Marathon, not a sprint. I do think once she's out you go as dark as possible. It will give you a chance to evaluate your entire relationship from a different perspective. Right now she has rationalized in her mind that you are the bad guy and that everything wrong in her life is tied to you. You go dark she will initially feel better and less pressure. But once she no longer has you to blame or ties her justification for her bad choices to you then she will start to one, miss you and two, be curious as to how you are doing. Additionally, she will wonder if you're doing better in your life because she isn't a part of it. Ahhhh now you start to get a recipe for possibly positive change. When she calls you don't give her any indication that you miss her or want her back. You need to believe in yourself and believe you don't need her. She needs to come to a realization that you are not her back but and that you are not going to just jump right back into things with her. Marathon, not a sprint. BE STRONG. Everyone one of us has those moments as to whether this is worth it or not. But who are we kidding?

Originally Posted by Again18

Marathon, not a sprint. I do think once she's out you go as dark as possible. It will give you a chance to evaluate your entire relationship from a different perspective. Right now she has rationalized in her mind that you are the bad guy and that everything wrong in her life is tied to you. You go dark she will initially feel better and less pressure. But once she no longer has you to blame or ties her justification for her bad choices to you then she will start to one, miss you and two, be curious as to how you are doing. Additionally, she will wonder if you're doing better in your life because she isn't a part of it. Ahhhh now you start to get a recipe for possibly positive change. When she calls you don't give her any indication that you miss her or want her back. You need to believe in yourself and believe you don't need her. She needs to come to a realization that you are not her back but and that you are not going to just jump right back into things with her. Marathon, not a sprint. BE STRONG. Everyone one of us has those moments as to whether this is worth it or not. But who are we kidding?

Again18,

Thanks for the advice. It's clear and calm and always a good game plan. Going completely dark is going to be hard because of kids and 50/50 custody, but I can do it for anything outside of them. Pretty sure I can do handoffs through school most of the time so no face to face.

Its amazing what the LBS has to go through, but the changes are for the better. Question is can the WAS catch up?

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Question is can the WAS catch up?

Yeah they can catch up but by then studies show that the LBS has moved on. I think I read once that it takes the avg Grass is Greener 18 months after D that they made a mistake.

Personally for me I am completely moving forward. If my ex ever changes her mind I will cross that bridge when it comes to it. The reconciliation would be on my terms and she would have to earn another chance with me.

Do you ever get to a point with the WAS that you just say enough with the lies?
Doing my weekly budgets today and I see her story about her Sat night out with her gal pal wasn't fully true. Looks like she did a lot of drinking, and she is not known to handle her alcohol well. Which means she drove from the city out to our home while intoxicated. Makes a little more sense with the way she was acting Sat night when she woke me up. I had asked her if she had been drinking she said one light drink at dinner time. The bills say otherwise... Not gonna lie, I am pretty disappointed, but not surprised.

I just had the guts to open the journal I was using before BD2. And looking through it and realizing all the patterns that make sense now that I understand the WW/WAW syndrome. And yeah, back then I was thinking, what on earth am I doing wrong?

Now I know what I was doing wrong. I was believing the lies.

It�s amazing what they�ll lie about once that seal is broken. Almost like it becomes fun. Like, well, since H will believe anything, might as well take advantage of that and do whatever I feel like.

Trust nothing they say. And as AS said somewhere on my thread: it�s when you�re really FED UP that you�re truly able to detach.

I find it has been easier to go dark when I think of her (for now, at least) as the kind of person who has brain damage and is incapable of telling the truth. Every text I get, I think to myself, �Yeah, sure, we�ll see about that.� It�s self-protective.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

Do you ever get to a point with the WAS that you just say enough with the lies?

Yes.

read this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045297#Post2045297

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What helped me was to script out my 2nd, longer, "The Deceit's Gotta Stop" confrontation with my wife. Practiced it, over and over, even out loud, in my office. Rehearsed my body language, and my inflection, and my eye contact. Probably two dozen times.....Who said this had to be a 15-second script? I'd suggest about a 3-minute one, give or take...

(I could not find the original post.)

Read this THREAD:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=44680&Number=1859179#Post1859179

Originally Posted by coach

When you make a boundary you are choosing for yourself how you let others treat you

And this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2816591#Post2816591

Quote

Put your hand up in the "stop" position, and say "Please stop --we both know you're lying to me right now, so let me finish.

Or walk away.

And this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1922220

Quote

Do not reveal anything about what you know and how you found out

Just food for thought.

Part 3
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2816839#Post2816839