Day 61/142:
Still feeling good. Anxiety is still under control and I'm making decisions based off logic instead of emotion. Had a checkup with the doctor a few days ago. Gained 2 pounds, but lost a lot of inches off my waistline. I'm seeing myself bulk-up and I look and feel sexy. I'm still keeping up with the changes I made to myself and my lifestyle (making my bed, keeping my room clean, praying 5 times a day, shaving, tucking in my shirt, looking into people's eyes when I talk, and carry myself with confidence, etc.) and I'm very proud of myself. I have to remind myself that I have been making these changes for two months and that I will need to keep doing this to make the change permanent.
I have also been working on getting rid of the bad habit of taking the easy way out or shortcuts. If there is proper way I need to accomplish a task, I have been consciously reminding myself that I need to complete it. Biggest example is when I lift. I have just completed a 6 week "beginners" session in which there were exercises that I did not want to do. Normally, I would have cut my losses and either skip it, or not finish the set. I did not do that. I pushed myself into completing the set and exercise.
Small changes (positive) in my sitch with W. We are much friendlier to each other now. I don't think we have ever communicated like this in our history of being together. I may even been flirted with (she was sharing some gossip with me and could not stop playing with her hair. Eye contact was sparse, but she would look at me, then look down and smile, then look elsewhere, then me again.). She is giving me opportunities to just hang out, whether it's to clean D4's room, or have dinner, or just chat. It's been friendly.
I have to keep reminding myself to not get overly excited and start pursuit. I need to remind myself that I have not been DBing long enough for me to "make a move". I also need to remind myself constantly that she will need to show me more before I can go towards something deeper. Reading other's sitches grounds me and gives me a reminder to be patient and not rush anything.
I feel myself turning into a man that only a fool would leave. And I'm making damn sure that I am that kickass person.
I shoot a wedding tomorrow. Sunday is used for week prep. No notable events planned for the first week of next month. But I have a few ideas. I would like to incorporate some friend activities, since I have been doing things alone as of late.
Pain,
That is a great post. Keep it up.
Yesterday , my lady went in for a kiss, I turned at the last minute and she got my cheek.....She had to work harder for the real kiss.
Point is, Be attractive. Make her want you.
I like the changes pain!
I like the self awareness!
I like you reminding yourself to not pursue.
Keep up the good work you're doing.
Day 63/144:
Setback.
I am not ready to be at weddings or any events where couples are involved. It hurts too much. I have been putting a happy face in front of everyone but deep down, I'm pretty depressed. Not bawling sad, but sad nonetheless.
Maybe it the cloudiness. Maybe it's the fact that there should be some down days and today is one of them. Or something else that I don't know. I just know the self-doubt and negative thoughts are creeping in.
W called a total of five times the last three days. I refused to answer any of them. I hate the fact that when I do pick up, it's a 1-3 minute call about some business bullshit. There is no point in talking if that's all I'm getting.
Three months of this year to go.
NC/Dark isn't about ignoring her. You ignoring her calls is not going to solve your problem. If she needs to communicate with you, there has to be a channel open. So, instead of ignoring, let her know that you prefer to discuss matters via text or email, whatever you prefer. I prefer text unless it's something that needs an email. Assert your boundary and then stick with it.
If you don't like chatting with her when you do pick up, just say something like - I have to go. Text me whatever it is you want to chat about. And then leave. Do it all politely. Avoidance isn't going to get you respect.
Maika,
Normally I don't have any problems answering her calls. I just think I was due for an emotional letdown after all of the highs I have been through the last two weeks. I think I fixated on the fact that everytime she calls the chat is very brief. It's been mostly business. When she texts I take my time and eventually respond with enthusiasm and cheerfulness. But I hear you on the difference between NC/Dark and Avoidance. I'll have to hone that.
I am also feeling desperate to get things going towards R again. And I feel that with all of the progress I have been making W should be giving me signals that she wants to R. But I know that thinking is far-fetched and ridiculous and falls under the definition of "pursuit".
I am also reminding myself that I have been divorce busting for a hair under 5 months, with the most notable progress coming in the last two. I know that DBing is a long process, sometimes taking months more to finally come to a resolution. I just felt like I needed to let the air out, so to speak.
The emotional let down is fine. You've been at this for 5 months - exercise some patience. I know it's not easy, but that's your only way out.
Keep the business stuff business and cheerful and polite. You have expectations that are most certainly not going to be met. You have to have ZERO expectations from any encounter with her, no matter how positive it might seem.
Totally okay to let the air out here. Just take your expectations all the way back down. For your reference, I have been separated for about 19 months, doing DB for 18, and just yesterday had the longest conversation with W in person that was pleasant. I got out of her way and her rage and anger and kept the focus on myself. Yes, I had plenty of mis-steps along the way, but once I got a handle on it, I haven't looked back.
Now a year ago, if this interaction would've happened with W, I would've been over the moon and thinking that she is turning the corner. Now, I didn't even think twice about it and just continued about my day and the next. Some of this comes with time, but a huge part is putting in the work.
Don't worry about the signals about the R. I remember being worried that I would miss them. Now I look back and laugh at myself at how naieve I was. If R is on the cards, she'll make it known. And plus, you don't want someone to be subtle and pussyfoot about it. They better come at you straight and direct in some way or form. Otherwise it's a waste of time.
Keep on doing the good work for yourself. Stay positive. Take ownership and accountability, and invest in your personal growth. I know you already know that, but just giving you a pat on the back and telling you to get on with it.
Day 65/146:
I bounced back a little and feeling better. After taking some Vitamin D I felt better and started to think logically. The rest of the day went better. Chatted off and on with W. Light-hearted talk. Still 10 minute conversations, but nothing related to our sitch. Maybe I am trying too hard, but I do feel that my slight nudging is showing some positive responses from W. I still feel like we are taking baby steps, just the DB books, other online resources (there are two other blogs I follow), and my MC teach me. I am taking some cautious risks. I will not engage in R talk. I will not talk about our sitch. That is going to be on W. I am however, going to show her more and more what she is missing in me. I pocket the little victories I get with W and move forward.
I see the changes I am making physically to my body. My arms and chest is getting a little more defined. I feel more attractive. I am carrying my head up and looking at people in the eyes when I talk. pain18 is becoming more of a man daily.
Talked to W's friend about our sitch. Told him that I do not know what is going to happen. All I know is that this will come to an end one way or the other. Told him it is obvious what my desired outcome to this sitch would be, but also told him that it is a longing/desire. I am not chasing/pursuing R. I am chasing/pursuing being a better me. A me that only a fool would leave.
Love you all. Thank you for the support for the last two months.
Day 67/148:
It's funny how time passes in regards to sitches like these the days become blurred out and "good" days just keep on happening.
It's been over a month since my last major meltdown. I still feel like my life is improving daily. Both in regards to my sitch and without.
I have taken my DB coach's advice to heart and now establishing a friendship with W. I ask W if she wants to do family things and she usually agrees. If not the same day, then usually later. I do remember the part of not believing anything they say, so I'm not anticipating anything. If she follows through, great. Another step forward. If not, I take the rejection lightly and try again later. In the words of my DB coach, I am ready to elicit a positive response if W says "no". Further reinforcement that I am not the same H I used to be and further establishing myself as a person only a fool would leave.
W and I are still cordial and joke around quite a bit. We are becoming friendlier to each other. Something that hasn't been seen or felt in a long time. I asked W yesterday if she wanted to come home earlier this morning and we can have breakfast together. She said it is too early but we can do that this weekend. I agreed. Will it happen? I don't know. No expectations. I am ready whether she agrees or no. I just use that as fuel to better myself.
I am getting better of not caring of her whereabouts everytime she is away. That being said, I do not know if there is a BD2 waiting in the wings as time passes. I do know and she does as well that we both do not want to keep things as they are as a new normal. I am dropping major hints without being direct in the hopes that she comes out of her fog and makes her way back to R. I feel good now, but I still worry from time to time if some bad news regarding our sitch is on the horizon.
I am still lifting, still doing housework, still GAL, and now taking sex classes. As part of my journey of being a man, I also want to be a more confident lover. One who takes control (long been W's fantasy of her of being dominated by me, but I am not doing it for her. I'm genuinely curious and want to assert my sexual dominance in a healthy, safe, consensual manner). Sex has always been a problem in our R and I want to make sure that when I get my next chance I do not repeat the same mistakes I created before.
I yearn for some skin to skin contact. It's been 9 months and counting or no warm hugs, no kisses, none of that. Yeah, I'll get bro hugs every now and then, but it's obviously not the same. I can cheat and pay for it, but the feeling will just be empty and I do not want that. I just have to wait, which really stinks. But it is what it is.
My journal is now full of inspirational quotes, notes from my discussions with my counselors on dealing with my sitch, dealing with my life, and being a better person. It's also full of achievements, small and large for me to reflect and be thankful for. Achievements in family, work, self, even current status with W. All positive notes now.
I continue to look over my shoulder. Not in the hopes that W and I will R (though I still have high hopes for that as well), but more if something bad is following and is planning on taking me down, undoing all of the good progress I have made in the last few months. Objectively, I would say that my thought on that is a little ridiculous. But there have been times in which my hopes got dashed to bits. I know I don't control that. That's in the hands of the higher power. All I can do is control what I can control and pray that the higher power hears my pleas for my desired results.
I hope and pray the higher power sees my wish and grants it to me.
Nothing bad is following you, and if it was, you'd be ready to deal with it. Life is always throwing stuff at us, and you've reached the point where life can't throw much else at you that isn't worse than what you've already dealt with.
I'm glad to see the positive changes keep coming.
Waiting stinks, I know what you mean. Just keep working to heal and move forward. Either way, you'll be more ready for that when the time comes, no matter who it comes with.
I'm going to look up and see what a sex class is - who knows maybe I can even teach it
What the hell is a sex class? Where are you taking it? What are you learning? I am super curious.
I'm exploring BDSM. Being dominant. It's something that was introduced with my W but I never understood it and felt comfortable with it. With me working on my NGS it became clear to me - my wife wanted a strong, dominating man, especially in the bedroom. I was just...NGS.
The class I'm going is an intro to rope bondage. But also learning proper etiquette - asserting control while not being aggressive.
Day 70/151:
Mostly good day. But I'm clearly not detached yet.
W asked me if I was mad at her or if I was ok. I replied that I was fine. She was concerned because I did not have any exclamation points in my texts. So...huh. Told her I did not know that was a thing and that I will work on sending texts that end in exclamation points (or something). Went home from church, had a mostly quiet evening. We send D4 to her room and we started to talk about our friend who is in a bad R for about 30 minutes, then went into the sitch regarding our S. She talked about how after she contracted the HPV virus she had the "aha" moment and decided to work actively on making herself happy. She did imply that she may have contracted it when she was drunk and taken advantage of. But the hidden implication was that she has been sexually active (presumably with OM, I don't know) at other times when we separated. So that hurt and clearly indicated to me that I still have work to do. I was reeling inside. But on the outside, I listened and did not not ask any more questions.
Talked about how S saved our lives. I told her that when I let her go, I finally was able to work on myself and be happy. She then continued to talk about how we ended up in this spot and how our separation is better than others. Which I agree. We're sharing a house, our D is good with both of us, etc. Continued to talk about plans for Thanksgiving. No dinner plans, so that means we're going to part like we are now. That part also bothered me but I also know that at this point in our lives and our sitch that there is not going to be any R talk anytime soon.
We then talked about plans for the weekend after next. I'm doing a fall photoshoot of the W and D4. She was talking about what she is going to wear and for D4.
The conversation lasted for an hour and a half (maybe two hours). Lots of soul bearing. Kind of hinted that we're still in limbo and that I don't know what is going to happen next month, next week, or even tomorrow. I almost told her that this limbo cannot last forever, but I also know that would just introduce problems and the potential for an argument.
If this was looked at objectively, especially from MWD and/or my DB coach, they would (probably) say that this is another small but significant step towards R. I hate to keep hoping, but I cannot help the fact that there is something special in the works in regards to me and W.
I know I have to be very patient. And I have been for the most part, but it's nights like these that make be want it to end sooner rather than later. That being said, I'm saying that out of emotion.
I know logically that moving too quick will only lead to more trouble.
And I don't want to compromise any good progress with us.
Would love some input.
Told her I did not know that was a thing and that I will work on sending texts that end in exclamation points (or something).
Probably not the best time for sarcasm with your W. Women typically don't care for it like we do.
The conversation lasted for an hour and a half (maybe two hours). Lots of soul bearing. Kind of hinted that we're still in limbo and that I don't know what is going to happen next month, next week, or even tomorrow. I almost told her that this limbo cannot last forever, but I also know that would just introduce problems and the potential for an argument.
Good.
You're doing well otherwise. Try to keep your mind off the holidays and things you cannot control. It's not worth it.
No sarcasm was conveyed when I told W about the exclamation point, ovr. If I need to show that I'm not mad at her and letting her know that everything is good by putting punctuation marks, then that's what I will do. I need to be the best pain18 I can be. Not for her, but for myself.
Like I said before, I am doing my best to accomplish two goals of the DB process:
- Be the best pain18 only a fool would leave. Physically, Intellectually, Emotionally, and Spiritually
- Put myself in the best position to get our R back on track and have it reach new heights.
I have hope. I have faith. I need to be patient.
Nice, that's good to know. I was probably projecting that on you. Me and my friends and brother were always super sarcastic, and that didn't go over well with my W.
I hear you. Before BD, I was extremely sarcastic, to the point where it was caustic to our relationship. I finally stopped when I let go. Again, delicate sitch and do not want to compromise any R efforts.
Meet with MC today. DB coach session #4 TBD. Lots of progress made.
Day 73/154:
I'm still not detached. I don't like getting excited at all of the good things happening, especially from W, but I cannot help but shake the feeling that there are some dark clouds on the horizon.
I don't want to D. I want my W back, I am tired of this uncertainty.
I'm exhausted. Physically, mentally, and emotionally.
I am with you Pain. This is not an easy journey.
Keep your mind focused on yourself getting better.
You cannot control her. Be the man only a fool would leave.
That is all you can do. Her choice is her choice. You need to make yourself good no matter what the outcome. Either way will be very difficult, but you have to be good with either way being the outcome.
If it is dependent on her coming back, you will fail.
I am with you Pain. This is not an easy journey.
Keep your mind focused on yourself getting better.
You cannot control her. Be the man only a fool would leave.
That is all you can do. Her choice is her choice. You need to make yourself good no matter what the outcome. Either way will be very difficult, but you have to be good with either way being the outcome.
If it is dependent on her coming back, you will fail.
Thank you JS. I just read through your sitch. I am sorry for what you are going through and I consider myself blessed that my sitch with my W has been more pleasant and hopeful. While there are still questions that I need answered, I need to take it one hour at a time. That is the way I'm getting through this.
Hey Pain,
just wondering b/c maybe I missed it. What is the Day X out of 154 mean? Is something happening at 154 days?
Nope...
It's a daily measurement of how many days I have been DBing and not getting into any heated, angry arguments with the wife.
So when I start journaling by saying "Day 74/155", I'm implying that I have not pursued/argued/etc. and actively DBing for 74 days. The 155 days is what I deduced from my DB coach to be the number of days I have been doing things that is considered DBing (the GAL portion primarily. I made a lot of other mistakes in that time, begging, crying, snooping and getting caught, yelling, angry, etc.).
It also helps the reader decide if I have been DBing for 74 days or 155. So when I come here to complain/be grateful you can decide to tell me "Pain, it has been only three months. This takes time! Chill the crap out!" or "Pain, it's been five months and you are deep in DBing! Keep up the work!"
Hope that helps
Day 77/155,
I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like something bad is going to happen this evening.
I really hope I'm wrong.
Nothing happened. W ran an errand and came home late. She was in tears. I asked her what is going on. She shut me down kindly. Night over.
Another week of this sh*t.
Hi pain,
don't focus on the negative. Be strong for you, your MR that you want to save, and your daughter.
Your W is going through her own emotional roller coaster so try to level yours out. What have you been up to outside of your sitch?
Stay strong pain. Be the lighthouse.
Nothing happened. W ran an errand and came home late. She was in tears. I asked her what is going on. She shut me down kindly. Night over.
Another week of this sh*t.
Next time try a different approach- don't ask her "what's wrong" or "what's going on", instead try "you look upset, is there anything I can do?" If she says no then respond "No problem. I'm sorry you're feeling down." And walk away. It may not sound much different but she will perceive you as being more empathetic and sensitive.
If she doesn't want to talk then you shouldn't take that as an insult or "shutting you down". Just respect her privacy. Remember, this isn't about YOU, it's about HER. She's going through a lot right now, she's on an emotional roller coaster. Don't ride it with her!
Thanks guys. I am working on making the suggestions above be second nature and not be something that I have to think about everytime I am presented with a scenario like the one above.
The posts came when I got very lonely on my drive back from a weekend trip to Seattle with D4. We had an ok time, the event itself was miserable, but we made the best of it nonetheless. I'm just sad that I cannot share these things with someone like W. It also hurts to think about being single and struggling through dating again. Just a lot of bad memories that I did not want to revisit and coming the realization that D is still likely and I am going to have to go through the dating and courtship process again. It is just disheartening.
MC today. Summary of DB Coach session 4 to follow eventually.
pain, i think this is normal. When we are faced with D and our spouse not being there anymore, to freak out about dating and meeting people. However, I think eventually that will change to one of excitement, at least that is is what I see in most people's sitchs here.
Day 78/159
Summaries of DB Coach sessions and MC.
DB Coach Session #4:
Summary:
-Grow a pair and start taking some risks in regards to W. There are a LOT of good small signs she is showing. It's not "I want you back". Far from it. W offers the house to me in exchange for her being out of it. I keep hoping she will stay while I'm there, but that is wishful thinking at this point. Slow and steady, right?
- DO NOT PURSUE.
- Learn to enjoy the small positives. As I stated before, W is showing A LOT of small positives.
- Learn how to handle "no". If I can handle being turned down from hanging out with W (asking her on a friend hangout, etc.), that is another good sign and further complicates WAW's thinking process. WAW thinks "This is what I always wanted from H!" but that conflicts with "But H always has done that previously! Which is the real H???" W is fighting and testing me. So far, it seems that I'm passing all of her tests.
- Learn what her favorite button to push is and work on busting that.
- Tell myself:
" I like who I am becoming."
" I am learning so much of who I am."
" Let W believe what she wants to believe."
- If W accuses me of manipulating her to get back into the marriage, how should I respond? I need to prepare for if/when she drops this question.
MC session:
I cried quite a bit. I expressed at my lack of physical touch, my desire of intimacy, and my fear of being alone again for the next 17 years. I expressed to MC that before I met W, I had a pretty good job and other good things but lacked love. Then I met W and had a great 8 years (and 2 leading to BD) and I had an awful job. Expressed fear and sadness that it will always be one or the other. MC said that is horseshit.
-Think positively. I am still in a fog that I'm coming out of. I need to be clear in my mind and heart. Once it's clear, look back and see what the cause of my M was and how I contributed to it.
-W has her own process of seeking clarification. She needs to put in her own work to see and obtain said clarity.
-Tell myself "I will not be stuck on sadness and loneliness forever." (This is incredibly hard to believe right now. I am tearing up as I type this. I don't want to feel hopeless but I am.).
- Let my sadness have its way and run its course. Let it get recognized and do not try to suppress it. Allow me to shed tears over this (I am, trust me.)
- This is not loneliness I am feeling. This is sadness and grief and loss.
- Life always gives new and more opportunities. (When? How much more should I allow myself to take? Any shortcuts is not a good solution, drugs, alcohol, prostitution, all bad.)
THIS IS A VALUABLE LEARNING EXPERIENCE (Truer words have never been said.)
My thoughts:
I had a good six weeks. I did not have an emotional breakdown. I was not sad. I kept it together and had numerous great experiences.
I remember clearly what the trigger to my sadness was. I was in the restaurant with D4 having breakfast yesterday. As we were finishing up, I locked eyes on a gorgeous server. We locked eyes briefly and she went about her business. There were a few other times we glanced at each other before I left the restaurant. After I left, my mind said "Yeah right. Keep dreaming. Don't forget who you are. It took you 17 years to get ONE person and you think that you'll get someone like her? GTFO of here. She's taken, not your type, and so on. Dream on, creep."
I pressed on. Spent some great time with D4. Got gifts for her, W, and myself. Had a long and very quiet and lonely drive home. W called finally that evening asking for my whereabouts. I said I'll be home in an hour. 20 minutes later she texted me she was running an errand and was going to be late. Whatever. I drove home, made D4 take a bath, put on a show for her, and then unpacked. W came an hour later. As soon as she came in, I went to the shower, turned it on, and sat and cried for a good 10 minutes. Got out of the shower and saw W was crying as well. Made small chit-chat and we retreated to bed. I turned on my fan to drown out noise, prayed and asked the higher power for forgiveness, a relief from this pain, and another chance to find true love again.
W never knew of my sad day.
77 more days of this awful year to go.
Day 80/161:
Small but significant update:
Trying to confirm plans for a photoshoot with W and D4. Planning on next weekend when it's a little cloudy. Expecting nothing but have not been shot down yet.
And, at the suggestion of my DB coach, I asked W to hang out next week during the workweek for 10-15 minutes. Her defenses immediately went up and asked about my intent. I said "just hang out", implying that this is not a date or an attempt at romance. Felt good about it. Instinctively I did not want her to ask what hang out it was, but I also know from a rebuild perspective I have to take it slow and her defenses have to be slowly (very slowly) lowered.
It's been 12 weeks since we have truly separated (physically). I do not know what the average time for a true separation is, but this getting really exhausting. It's getting colder and GAL is becoming a little more difficult.
This is really starting to hurt again. I have GAL plans tonight, but I'm having to fight through this painful stretch. What else can I do? Am I still on the right track or am I BSing myself? I know that I need to be patient, but this grief and sadness just will not go away.
I may have screwed up, but there was no angry/negative reaction from W. Here is what happened:
- Asked if I can stay the night at our house (I'm out usually M, T, W) since I will have to drive past our house to stay at a place while I"m out, she says that she is having friends over and that she prefers not to. She did offer to cancel and I told her not to and that I will figure something out.
At this point, my emotional neediness got the best of me and I asked her a hypothetical question. I asked her if she was having friends over and I forgot to pick something up I can come by and grab it, whether she has friends over or not, or would I need to inform her. She flipped the question to me and asked me how I would feel. I answered that I would not mind at all. I then went further that I would talk to her if I had a date coming over. She asked if I actually needed something from the house or if it was a hypothetical question. I answered that it was a hypothetical question and told her that I was taken off balance by her asking me to not show up tonight. Told her that I respected her boundaries and that I have a backup plan tonight.
I hate to beg, but I would really like some input here. I feel like the last few days I have been getting the advice of "be patient", which is helpful and I'm still employing, but as you can tell, I am starting to get desperate.
Please help.
Edit: I know that I cannot and should not trust her with who she has over. As painful as that is for me to think that others may be involved, there is nothing I can do about her thinking.
I'm just begging for relief from this pain at this point.
Hi Pain,
Loosely following.
Releasing your emotions is healthy. Just not in front of W during this phase of the relationship. Do it as needed. I always feel better after a good cry. Anger is another good emotion to let out. Screaming in the car helps.
Our minds play tricks on us all the time. Get out of your head.
Coach talked about TEA.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=46578&Number=1998146#Post1998146
What are your GAL plans for tonight?
What are your GAL plans for tonight?
I was originally going to the city to attend a class on sex. But I think the lack of physical intimacy and my emotional state is causing me to reconsider. So I know that after work I am going to lift tonight and pray. After that, I do not know. All of my friends are W's friends (she told me that her best friend is worried about me and wants to check in...I declined.) so I cannot hang out with them.
I may just go to the city tonight and find something at this point. I'm desperate.
I was originally going to the city to attend a class on sex. But I think the lack of physical intimacy and my emotional state is causing me to reconsider.
Good idea for the future, but yes timing is wrong.
Good book:
https://www.amazon.com/She-Comes-First-Thinking-Pleasuring/dp/0060538260 So I know that after work I am going to lift tonight and pray.
After that, give yourself permission to take a break. any R thoughts start to take over , tell yourself "I will deal with that tomorrow".
After that... I may just go to the city tonight and find something at this point.
Sounds like a great idea. During my sitch, I would go get dinner alone. Enjoy taking to the staff. I would go to live music alone. Enjoy interacting with people.
I'm exploring BDSM. Being dominant....
Good skills to have. Lots of trust needed. Might be putting the cart in front of the horse.
My Book list:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094
I am definitely doing that. But as my MC said...I am putting a lot of equity in the good signs W is showing me. That being said, I am also potentially setting myself for quite the fall if lose this gamble. But I feel like I need to take that risk. I need to build my confidence and my assertiveness. I cannot stop growing. I cannot recede.
These feelings are all normal, right? The steady highs with the occasional crash? I'm doing everything that I can that is healthy. A stray thought comes into my mind and derails me for a few days and then I'm back going forward.
All normal? All healthy? All conducive to DBing?
Pain18,
Are they racing thoughts? Like a stray thought gets picked up in your mind and it races from point a to b to c and so forth to an unrealistic fantasy?
-or- a sad thought pops up and just takes the wind out of your sails?
A little bit both. Like this current down, it was triggered by my loneliness on my trip with the exclamation point being me locking eyes with a very beautiful woman. My ptsd negativity kicked in and got my depression and hopelessness going.
This is the 4th day that I have been feeling like this.
I wish I can try I’ll get another opportunity. I wish I can say that I’ll get another chance at love. I just know that it’s one all big IF instead of a WHEN.
Hi Pain,
I just read your first post. I skimmed the thread and read some of your posts.
Help me understand better:
1) You are still in the same house. Separate rooms?
2) You have a D. How old now?
3) OM still in the picture?
1) Yes. We’re out of the house 3 days per week at a time. I stay three days in the house. W stays the other three days. We spend a half-day preparing for our upcoming week.
2) 4
3) I don’t know. I’m assuming yes but I don’t ask. W doesn’t bring him up much to me anymore. SOB is aware of our sitch. Says that I “probably hate him” (very much). D4 mentions spending time with him from time to time.
Ballsy move. At the sex class. Right now I’m learning some great info. Likely going to suffer another breakdown on my way back to the place where I stay three days per week.
Stay strong Pain. Deep breathing. Keep it together for you and D4. In the end youll realize its your WW who is losing.
Stay strong Pain. Need some more detaching and GAL. I know is easier to say...but you need to stay away from your mind readings. I liked what R2C wrote: if those R thoughts appear, train yourself to delay them. Focus on something else. You must do a conscious effort to achieve calm and avoid anxiety. Know yourself P.
You need to be strong P. Keep moving forward man.
It's not the detaching that is my only source of grief.
It's the sadness and hopeless feeling that I will be in my mid 50s by the time I get another chance. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? I hope not.
I do know that shortly after BD I was flailing and so desperate to keep up with WAW's dating I went full-charge on numerous dating sites. And that was an extremely sobering reminder that as a man, dating is an extremely competitive endeavor. Out of 200 or so attempts to make contact, I had one date. And she was definitely not someone who I had any interest in. It sapped whatever morale I had built up. And that is when I started to indulge in unhealthy behaviors (alcohol, prostitution, food) because I did not know how else to cope.
I am not falling back on the bad behaviors. I look and feel better.
I just don't want to be alone anymore.
Keep working on yourself. It takes time. Better times are coming. Control anxiety and GAL GAL GAL
Enjoy time with D4 and feel the freedom not the loneliness. Try some meditation, IC, running, butterfly hunting, whatever. Learn to live with yourself first. Get into amoafwl.
And man...you are not alone...that’s a feeling and I’m sorry you are feeling like that but you have the power to change it.
GAL!
GAL seems so difficult at first, but baby steps, just stay busy. I felt this before too and said wow I will have to change my entire lifestyle at 49 after spending 19 years with the same person...very overwhelming and a lot of anxiety. My advice is just stay busy at first.
Read, exercise, look at other sitches here and see what they are doing, walk a mall, window shop, pick up a PT job to meet new people, go to a support group, talk to an IC, hang out with friends. Those aren't new things, those are things that you have probably done all your life but just became complacent with them the past few years....we all did, that is why we are here.
We all felt like we had to keep up with WAW or WW and the dating or sex, good luck, women will always be able to get what they want when they want it because that is the way it was set up in the beginning. Adam didn't want the apple, Eve talked him into it, guys are one track when you think about it. If you try to chase a relationship, sex, love, you will be disappointed most of the time and continue the cycle. It will happen, but you won't ever be satisfied until you can look at yourself and say I will be ok with or w/o her and I have a lot to offer. You need that confidence, work on yourself.
I have made so much progress in these last 81 days. So much accomplished. So much healing. So much addressing my root issues and attacking and resolving them.
But as numerous folks here have echoed repeatedly that what LBS have gone and are going through is very traumatic. GAL and Detaching help with the healing process, but it's not a magic pill that makes the hurt go away.
I keep thinking that I'm past the pain and trauma. Then something triggers it and spirals me back down.It does not take me back to square one. Far from it. It just brings back the sadness, depression, and hopelessness that resulted from it. This is day 5 of feeling this way and I keep hoping and praying that the pain ends soon and this story ends with a happy ending.
I am thankful for so many things that I have been able to accomplish and acquire in this process. I am becoming a better man. A man who is great, getting every more confident, getting more attractive, and getting to a happier place. But holy cow, I'd be lying if I said it was not without the worst emotional pain imaginable. And the crazy thing is, my sitch is not as bad as others (See ovrrnbw, Gordie, kech, and burned sitchs...that's worse!).
I am just experiencing things that I guess many folks go through in relationships...cheating, break-ups, neediness, all that jazz. I just hate that I'm experiencing all of that so late in my life.
Thanks for hearing me.
Day 82/163:
I think I'm pursing again. W told me she had a phone conference last night. When I came home she was dressed in a very leggy dress. Walked her to her car and talked for a few minutes. As I left I thought, "Why is she dressed like that? What is she doing that evening?" And then I remembered that I was not supposed to care. Water off a duck, right Steve?
W came back next morning to let me go to work, she told me that she does not know if she will be at the house Sunday (wanted to use the opportunity to connect more) when I asked her. Felt like the air was taken out of my sails.
I'm going backwards. Even GAL I'm thinking about her. Detaching has not taken hold.
I'm disappointed in myself. I keep thinking that things were turning around for her and I. And I keep getting hit with setbacks.
It stinks pain, I know the feeling very well. I remember the beginning, it hurt so bad when she didn't come home for weekends. I knew where she was, but I had to fight through it, I had to get out of the house and stay busy. Minutes at a time, hours at a time, days at a time I got better at concentrating on me and what I was doing.
I looked at it like a rubber band and I slowly kept stretching away from her, and yeah I would pull back, but the further I stretched out that rubber band each time, the less I would pull back as I tested the elasticity. My brain and heart learned that I don't want to feel this pain anymore. I can do this without her, I am a man and started acting like it.
All is not lost, kick yourself in the ars and get busy living.
It’s a mind f*ck that I feel I’m bringing upon myself. I mean I know not to pursue but I also know that I need to take some cautious chances. Even DR stalks about making small steps. Maybe I’m just getting impatient again?
Absolutely, it is impatience, your small steps should be you shaking the anxiety so you can concentrate on your growth, not small steps towards R. I was there too! Then when the opportunity does come and she gives you a little test you will be prepared, not to go all in and look like a desperate fool but to be able to calmly assess exactly what is being presented so you don't fall for the trap. Or if it is a sincere gesture that you can accept it for what it is and build on her efforts.
I was there where first sign of her moving towards me I pursued right away and it pushed her away. She too has to relearn why she was attracted to you.
I feel that she’s been 90% sincere. She is moving rightfully slow. Very slow. And the desperation is oozing out of me. I’m desperate to move back in. I’m desperate to be a family again. I’m desperate of not having to sleep on stranger’s couches and shower in gym showers.
This awfulness needs to stop.
Hi Pain,
You have to challenge your beliefs during this process. OMG I can relate to everything you are saying.
The crazy part, is you have all the power to change all these feelings, when ever you want. Your brain is a powerful crazy animal that does crazy things to you. It is lying to you. Tricking you. Stopping you.
Two books I think would be good for you to read:
Short book. I have read this one so many times. EACH TIME I get something new:
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319This one is big:
https://www.amazon.com/Art-Seductio...p;sr=1-1&keywords=power+of+seductionI wish you well during this most difficult time.
Keep making positive changes and SHE WILL NOTICE.
It’s been hard this week. And the funny thing there is nothing negative happened between us two. Heck she is even entertaining the idea of meeting me outside of work and hang out for 15 or so minutes during her workday. I should be happy. But I also see the part where I am making a mountain out of a molehill and trying to rush things again.
What I really need is a way to find out ways to ease my needs of getting physical/intimate contact. It’s more than sex that I want.
Also, it would have been 10 years in four days that W and I spent a few days that basically cemented our love for each other. The 10 year mark was supposed to have been something special.
Now it’s a lot of other successes followed by one big question mark. We’ve been physically separated for 4 months now. R ended 10 months ago. And I’ve been DBing for almost three. I know others have gone through longer stretches and I need to let the process do it’s job.
I’m just getting impatient and it’s killing me.
What I really need is a way to find out ways to ease my needs of getting physical/intimate contact. It’s more than sex that I want.
Go get a massage. No happy endings.
Go get a pedicure. Manicure.
Ok R2C, I’m grabbing the art of seduction. Let’s see what I can learn and apply to my sitch.
Pick up the other one as well. It is cheap. I have multiple copies and pass them out as needed.
Found a digital copy. I have some reading to do.
Short update:
W asked me if I was ok and if I was "just exhausted". I said "yep" and asked her the same Q. She also was tired but she was going to music. I told her to have fun. End convo.
I have to continually realize that my sitch, as painful as it is, could be so much worse. I am thankful that we are at least civil and are cordial, even humorous everytime we see each other.
Small steps. Marathon not sprint.
I hope this continues to true healing. I pray it does.
Thank you again, everyone. This board has been instrumental in my healing and rediscovery process.
I am really struggling. Seven days if backtracking and I am still emotional. Any decisions or talk about our sitch will not be good.
I know I'm doing the right things. I know for sure. Why does it feel like I'm sliding backwards? Is this feeling normal?
I am really struggling. Seven days if backtracking and I am still emotional. Any decisions or talk about our sitch will not be good.
I know I'm doing the right things. I know for sure. Why does it feel like I'm sliding backwards? Is this feeling normal?
Probably because your heart wants you to do the opposite of what you SHOULD be doing, your heart wants you to pursue and nice her back into the MR.
I am really struggling. Seven days if backtracking and I am still emotional. Any decisions or talk about our sitch will not be good.
I know I'm doing the right things. I know for sure. Why does it feel like I'm sliding backwards? Is this feeling normal?
Probably because your heart wants you to do the opposite of what you SHOULD be doing, your heart wants you to pursue and nice her back into the MR.
Yep,
I feel like I SHOULD talk about MR (I should not)
I feel like I SHOULD ask her about D (I should not)
I feel like I SHOULD tell her that I cannot keep doing this (I can. Others have done it for longer)
All bad suggestions. Right?
Pretty much. Setting a boundary about not living like this is a personal choice you have to make if your ok with the MR ending. If your not, then that probably isnt a boundary you should be sending.
Believe me, my heart wanted to nice my WW back into our MR for a long time. She just used my niceness to cake eat.
Me discussing about not loving like this is approaching.
I see signs but I need to continue to DB.
I failed.
I told W I can’t keep this up. Told her she knows what I want but I cannot control her. She says she is taking it one day at a time. It was a civil conversation but I told her that this sitch has a weight that I need off.
I know I should have kept my mouth shut. But I also sensed there is no coming back. Is it WAW thinking? I don’t know.
We’re going to talk within the next couple of weeks.
I need to talk to a lawyer. I at least need to know my rights.
This whole thing was triggered by D4 telling me W was showing affection to OM.
To further clarify:
I did not beg. I did not guilt trip her. I risked my marriage ending to tell her this because I really want this pain to end.
If she did not know then, she knows now.
I feel so hopeless.
I didnt know your D4 was around OM, not to mention they were being affectionate. These ww are so classless. At what point do we wake up and realize that we dont need these type of women in our lives?
If your truly ready to stop letting your ww cause you so much pain, then dont look back.
We’re going to talk more I imagine about our sitch. But I am losing my self-respect by basically having her cake eat.
I don’t deserve this. And if she doesn’t know, I will tell her. Again and again and again.
We’re going to talk more I imagine about our sitch. But I am losing my self-respect by basically having her cake eat.
I don’t deserve this. And if she doesn’t know, I will tell her. Again and again and again.
I eventually got to that point too. It did finally trigger the D filing, but i know that ww was going to do it all along. She was stringing me and our family along as far as possible while she was cake eating.
No, we dont deserve it and our children dont either. My ww is pathetic for what shes done, and doesnt deserve me and yours doesnt deserve you either. Sorry, i had a trigger (very bad trigger) and i hate my ww so much right now.
Thing is, I don't think W would file for D. I think she is fine with things being the way they are right now. I really do not know what is going on in her mind, but I cannot be abrasive about it. I am the better man. It's what I have been working so hard on lately and I refuse to step back.
WW/WAW don't care about S feelings, yes? They are going to cake eat. But W is going about other parts of her business now as it was pre-BD.
I hope the conversation comes sooner than later. This needs to be communicated.
R2C/AS/ovrrnbw/Steve, what are your thoughts?
Thing is, I don't think W would file for D. I think she is fine with things being the way they are right now. I really do not know what is going on in her mind, but I cannot be abrasive about it. I am the better man. It's what I have been working so hard on lately and I refuse to step back.
WW/WAW don't care about S feelings, yes? They are going to cake eat. But W is going about other parts of her business now as it was pre-BD.
I hope the conversation comes sooner than later. This needs to be communicated.
R2C/AS/ovrrnbw/Steve, what are your thoughts?
hi pain. am sorry about what you’re going through right now. stay strong.
likewise with my WW. she doesn’t want to file D. according to her friend, it’s too much hassle.meanwile D14 is suffering the embarrassment of what her mother is doing. D14 doesn’t want to hangout with WW’s friends, they’re good people and worried about D14’s well being. They even offered to take him at nights when i work but D14 refuses.
You are right. we are the better and rational ones in this debacle. we need to be steadfast and strong specially for the kids sake. WW doesn’t care about me, I don’t care about her either. just another cashier at walmart.
stay positive!
But how long do we put up with this? Do I just chalk this as a hiccup and continue to DB as usual with the added goal of R? I mean, when I told W that I need closure on this and want the pain to stop, she was expectedly neutral. She said that I fixate on these things when I have a bad week (which I obviously did by my past week post history) and told me that the conversation will be brought up while she and I think about this.
Should I continue my plans of the photo shoot? The 15 minute lunch hangout? I knew that her being involved with OM was still possible. I just hoped that it was not.
I just really feel like I messed up by exposing more of myself and my wish to have this end. But I also am happy that I set and reinforced (calmly) a boundary that I thought I established. Whether D4 is telling the truth or not, I don't know. But I am not acting in the same angry manner as I was before. That has to account for something. I still feel like I am becoming a better man. I just do not want to succumb to the pain that precedes it.
But how long do we put up with this? Do I just chalk this as a hiccup and continue to DB as usual with the added goal of R? I mean, when I told W that I need closure on this and want the pain to stop, she was expectedly neutral. She said that I fixate on these things when I have a bad week (which I obviously did by my past week post history) and told me that the conversation will be brought up while she and I think about this.
Should I continue my plans of the photo shoot? The 15 minute lunch hangout? I knew that her being involved with OM was still possible. I just hoped that it was not.
I just really feel like I messed up by exposing more of myself and my wish to have this end. But I also am happy that I set and reinforced (calmly) a boundary that I thought I established. Whether D4 is telling the truth or not, I don't know. But I am not acting in the same angry manner as I was before. That has to account for something. I still feel like I am becoming a better man. I just do not want to succumb to the pain that precedes it.
this might help you see it in a different point of view..
Link to original post.Read a good quote i related to yesterday.
"My mother died. My spouse cheated, the pain was the same. When she confirmed her infidelity, the person i chose to spend my life with died"
Shes dead. When she swapped her persona when she met om, the woman i knew died. Never to return.
That's really extreme...but I also understand why he feels that way.
Calling it. W feels like she can date others since I failed. She stated that the romance was over and I foolishly had hope. You were right Steve, Gordie. You were right. I did not tell her how I found out this information of her activities, but it broke me. I really wanted to save M. But it was already a lost cause.
I am back to square one. And this time, the destination is different.
I’m broken.
Calling it. W feels like she can date others since I failed. She stated that the romance was over and I foolishly had hope. You were right Steve, Gordie. You were right. I did not tell her how I found out this information of her activities, but it broke me. I really wanted to save M. But it was already a lost cause.
I am back to square one. And this time, the destination is different.
I’m broken.
Hang in there pain. At least you know what direction you want to go. I was at this same crossroad, and like they say you have to let go. Realizing your old MR is dead is one of the toughest things you'll ever go through, but it's a part of the process. It's time to put the focus on you. Detach and build a better version of yourself, and do it for you.
I’m struggling so much. No sleep again. Told W that she shattered me. She had the audacity to tell me “there is nothing wrong with being single.” I told her that she is not allowed to tell me how it feels. She has no right. More of the same “I need support from you too.” And I cannot do it. I told her that we are partners for D4 sake. That’s it.
I’m done couch surfing. And I’m going to talk about separating finances, phone plans, and possibly have her move out. She wants the WW lifestyle, she can finance it herself.
Shattered. Hopeless. Unattractive. That’s sums up my feelings. I hate this and I hate myself and I have no other option but to keep on simply because of D4.
What should I do? D is a viable option now. I said it out of emotion last night but as of right now, it’s still there. She is awful for putting me through this.
I really can’t think straight now.
What should I do? D is a viable option now. I said it out of emotion last night but as of right now, it’s still there. She is awful for putting me through this.
I really can’t think straight now.
DO not do make any decisions when you are not thinking straight.
And I’m going to talk about separating finances, phone plans, and possibly have her move out. She wants the WW lifestyle, she can finance it herself.
Good boundaries. Don't talk about. Just do it.
R2C,
Is this where true detachment begins? Should I consult a lawyer about who stays and who goes and how it will affect D?
WW wants to pour out her emotions to me. I told her I will listen. I’m consciously preparing on validation and trying really hard not to bring up the sexy emails to OM I found last night. Don’t bring them up at all? Even if I’m hurting so much?
Take a day or two to clear your head. Dont make an emotional decision you may regret. After you have truly cleared your head, weigh out what you really want. You can only control yourself, but that doesnt mean that you dont have choices to dictate your own future. I wouldnt throw the D word around unless your fine with actually going that route.
R2C,
Is this where true detachment begins? Should I consult a lawyer about who stays and who goes and how it will affect D?
WW wants to pour out her emotions to me. I told her I will listen. I’m consciously preparing on validation and trying really hard not to bring up the sexy emails to OM I found last night. Don’t bring them up at all? Even if I’m hurting so much?
Let her vent, validate, and i wouldnt bring up what you found.
I know I don’t want to live like this for much longer.
I know I don’t want to live like this for much longer.
These words are confusing for me. What specifically? What can you do to change this?
I don’t want to live in limbo wondering if W is showing signs of R or not. I don’t want to have to hear D4 tell me how great OM is. I don’t want to provide cake eating for a cheating W.
And this is something I have repeated constantly before:
I don’t want to feel this pain anymore. No amount of meds can fix this hurt. I just want this horrible chapter in my life to close.
I don’t want to live in limbo wondering if W is showing signs of R or not. I don’t want to have to hear D4 tell me how great OM is. I don’t want to provide cake eating for a cheating W.
And this is something I have repeated constantly before:
I don’t want to feel this pain anymore. No amount of meds can fix this hurt. I just want this horrible chapter in my life to close.
Sounds like you have been leaning towards D for a while?
In my sitch, i decided i wasnt going to "share" my WW any longer. I let her know that, and she filed for D soon after because her cake eating was over.
It’s been on the table but I felt that with the small positive changes that things were possibly turning around.
D4 telling me about the PDA and finding the sex emails threw everything into reverse and basically re-confirmed something that happened a long time ago - my old W is dead to me.
It’s been on the table but I felt that with the small positive changes that things were possibly turning around.
D4 telling me about the PDA and finding the sex emails threw everything into reverse and basically re-confirmed something that happened a long time ago - my old W is dead to me.
I can relate. In my mind my W is dead and gone, and i have no idea who this person is. I dont mean that in a spiteful way either, but i definitely mourn the loss of the W i knew and loved. I despise this new person.
I'm looking at my signature and even as early as last week, I felt like things were getting better. How wrong I was. I guess I needed a reality check yesterday about what is going on and maybe give me a kick in the butt to get this over with.
I really don't know. My mind is going 100 miles per hour and I can't stop it.
Hi Pain,
I just got caught up. I'm going back to basics, so to speak. I said this months ago: you need to move back in to your home, full time, in the MBR. She is the one who wants out so let her GTFO.
She is not sure if she wants a divorce, or else she would have filed. So just be tough, and let her live with the negatives of her choice. If she wants a divorce, you and her won't talk. So cut all contact. Set a schedule with your daughter so that you don't have to talk.
No more play time, photo shoots, long talks.
Your W is right about some things, like there is nothing wrong with being single. You argued with her by saying she can't tell you how it feels. You should have just told her that if she would have taken her own advice and waited until she was actually single to date OM, that maybe she'd have some integrity. But really, you should be telling your W that she shattered you in the first place.
W feels like she can date others since I failed.
The response here is, I don't recall that being a part of our vows. We will be true to each other until the romance ends? No, that's not the vow.
Should I continue my plans of the photo shoot? The 15 minute lunch hangout? I knew that her being involved with OM was still possible. I just hoped that it was not.
Find something better to do. Detach and do it in a nice way.
Stop talking to your W. You are pressuring the hell out of her. I know you are hurting. You need to go find something to do and get your mind out of the hellhole it is in right now.
You don't want a divorce, you're not ready for a divorce, calm yourself down. You were just hoping things with OM weren't that bad, b/c you wanted to believe that. And it is always worse than the LBS thinks.
How are you finances intertwined with your W right now?
Calm down, go run for at least an hour. Go get a beer or dinner with a friend. You need some activity to focus on man. This will help you detach. Your wife says the wrong thing and you are bouncing off the wall. Don't give her that power. Don't let her ruin your happiness. This is your life, and you should make the best of it.
Great advice Ovrrnbw! Applies to me too💪🏻
I really wish you lived near me so that we can hang, ovr. Thank you for the splash of cold water.
I knew it was going to be worse. I guess the only thing worse that is left is when I see OM engaging in PDA with W. I have seen the phone calls. Now I have seen the emails and plans for December and beyond.
We share one account. I plan on having a sit down with her and discussing separation of assets. I’m just in a high emotional place right now and I have made a LOT of mistakes yesterday. I should have known better but someone has to be slapping her out of the fog she refuses to budge from.
I have told her repeatedly that she lost a great man. And I kept saying that my 2nd will be so happy. She is out there and I am going to sweep her off her feet. All of this was said between tears and gasps of bawling.
She said we’re separated numerous times but did not drop the D bomb. I did say it was now a viable option. She fired back telling me that it’s going to be as painful as what we’re feeling now. I countered by saying that if it gives me a ticket to closing this awful chapter in my life I will do it. Her voice cracked when I said D. I needed to say it. I’m done being taken hostage to her actions.
I feel so weak and helpless and hopeless.
Let me ask everyone this:
How badly did I screw this up?
How badly did I screw this up?
You did not screw this up. You are just focused on the wrong things. Change your focus.
This has nothing to do with your wife. It all has to to how you handle this. How you grow as a person. How you improve your communication skills. How you set and enforce boundaries. How you become seductive.
So she wont bring up the D and her voice cracked when you mentioned the D? She is out with OM and making plans with him? What are you going to do Mr. Plan B?
Think long and hard, meditate on it. Get centered. You are strong, make your moves from a position of strength. If your not ready then wait and build strength. I am not advocating D, I am saying be the best you.
We talk plans this week.
I’m going to bring up separation of accounts and her finding her own place. I will not let her descecrate the house we bought with OM’s fluids any longer.
We talk plans this week.
I’m going to bring up separation of accounts and her finding her own place. I will not let her descecrate the house we bought with OM’s fluids any longer.
That is the right attitude.
You can handle this.