Hello,
I have been here before a few years back. I am once again separated from my wife for about 6 months now.
I will update post with my current situation tonight.
I am trying to get some quick advice on confronting her with information that I found regarding her seeing/dating other men while we are separated. She has consistently denied seeing anyone else the entire time. I however snooped when I should not have and found pretty much everything I feared.
We had been seeing each other pretty regularly before that and I was actively trying to work on things with her. As she seemed very open to trying to make this work. It now just seems like she was cake eating the whole time.
Since finding the information, I have enacted sandi's rules completely, which I wish I had done from the start.
I am now faced with the question of confronting her with the information and whether it will even have any benefit. I am not willing to be in an open relationship with her.
I know that this is not much to go off of. But I would appreciate any help. And will do my best to clarify, as im sure there are questions.
Thank you all
WAWs don't need separation or their own place to find themselves. Or work on themselves. Or to work on the MR. WAWs need their own place for one reason and one reason only...... To sleep with other guys. Sorry to break this to you.
So why confront? Why not concentrate on yourself? Are you GAL? Have you been working on 180s? How is your detachmentn coming along?
lBHs spend so much time and energy on the WAW and any OM she may have. That's unattractive to her. The secure strong LBS goes on with his life. And that is attractive!
Do you think a confrontation over this information will bring you closer together? Or push you further apart? Cause I'll tell you that answer if you don't know it.
I know the answer. I am just having a bit of a hard time accepting the truth.
Detachment is rough. I know I am not there yet.
Was not focusing on myself at all, in fact was hyper-focused on her. I am much worse for it. Putting a stop to it this week, but the thoughts still run through my head when they want. I process them and then shut them down as quickly as possible.
GAL has been going on from the start. But I was involving her too much in it all.
180's are coming slowly, I do backslide now and then. I know she notices.
I am going to try and tell a bit of my story. Which will most likely come out all over the place and not seem clear at all.
I know a lot of this will seem super obvious to you all and that I will seem a fool, I believe I am. So please spare me the criticism's unless its purely constructive. I hope to share it and at least get some of this out so that I can process it. Maybe see things from a different perspective and get some clarity with everyone help.
We separated back in 2015 for about 6 months, at that time she was having her 4th emotional affair. Which was the first to turn physical. I had moved on completely and she sensed it and asked me to come back almost immediately. I know now that I let her back to easily. Things warned against on this forum where ignored by me, because I had gotten what I wanted. We had no counseling, there was no apology from her, there was a vague promise to never do it again. There was no transparency, in fact I never really fully trusted her to this day. We had our second child on the way less than two months after getting back together. So not even the proper piecing and work to rebuild our relationship was done.
I think its safe to say, I set myself up for failure and shouldn't really be surprised that I am where I am now.
So down the same road we went, I slipped back into my old depressed self dealing with work/school and new baby. I think I did the opposite of what this book and this board preaches along every step of the way. Because I thought this time was different. She starts waitressing nights at a bar... full of single/divorced people. Makes a lot of ''friends'' there
.
I do'nt think I need to go into detail the conversations I'm sure where had. Her old resentments for me came back. We did the dance we were already so good at. Old arguments resurfaced, I again was to blame for everything wrong in her life.
March comes and she tells me she wants to separate. She asks me to move out. I agreed, but don't find a place until May. Part of me was sick of her and wanted out, so I went along with it without much of a fight. I halfheartedly tried to convince her otherwise. But there was a lot of fights during the initial few months.
Most of June we do not talk, I do not really remember it.
Something wakes up in me in July, a love for her that I have not felt in a very long time. I very much am willing to do anything to make this work. She seems receptive to this. We go on a few dates. I say that I am ok with living apart and working on each other like this, as long as there are no other men. She states that she see's herself as single, and only married by law on paper, because she is not ready for that step. (this should have been a pretty big red flag for me...) She however assures me there are none. But, she also says that she doesn't trust me, that she is afraid this is all a show to get me back, and that I soon as I have her again, I will fall back into my old unexciting, unmotivated, self hating state of mind. Which to be honest, is entirely possible, I know that I am responsible for not being that person, I do not want to be that person, and I am working to change that actively. I do not blame her for feeling like that.
We start sleeping with each other again. We are talking a lot, getting a long like we haven't in years. She does bring up past resentments a lot. Says she is angry with me and cannot get over it. Is hot and cold and all over the place emotionally. We would sleep together but then she would not talk to me for a week. It is emotionally and mentally draining, However I think things are going ok, we are at least communicating so I am ok with all of this. But something does not seem quite right. This continues from mid july until basically last week, when she falls asleep on the couch after inviting me over.
I look through her phone and find what maybe I was expecting. But also more. Her conversation with her one very close female friend (whom I have to come to learn is what I am now defining as a tinder/working girl) , is almost a mind blowing insight into the state of her mind. She talks about things with her that I would never had imagined her even thinking about. It is like a completely different person. She is basically learning from her ''friend'' how to juggle men and be ''paid'' for it in dinners, rent, gifts, vacations etc... I really dont even know how to go into detail about this conversation, that goes back all the way to early 2017. It has everything, stuff like, they send nudes to each other, and decide which is the best to send to certain guys. I dont even know anymore. Ill stop there about that, im sure some of you know where that rabbit hole goes.
I believe now, that this is just the type of person that she is. I think that as soon as our relationship gets a little tough, or she gets bored, or just wants attention, really any of number of probable reasons, is when she looks outside the marriage for attention from other men. I no longer know if she is capable of changing this.
She does not see herself as having a problem. There is always something that I've done or not done that she uses to justify her decisions. But maybe there is no longer a problem for her. Maybe this is how she wants to live her life.
Crazy universal spin on everything, is that I still find myself in love with her, or at least who she was, or who she could be
I know I am not willing to be a part of all of that. I have no clue how or even if she would ever give it up. I dont feel like even the thought of losing me is enough to pull her out of it.
My plan? I dont really know. I know that I cannot focus on her and what she is doing. I have no control of that. And have no expectations about what she is going to do.
I know I need to focus on myself and my kids and just take my life from there step by step. Time to do a bit of soul searching maybe.
Thank you to anyone who reads, shares or has input.
Just voicing a thought/that reoccurs pretty regularly. This sort of fear that takes over, that if I leave her alone for too long she is going to like it and get over me totally and never come back.
She has told me she still loves me, is afraid of losing me, is attracted to me, just this last Tuesday. She has told others that if I can be consistent with what I was doing (talking to her, being open, dating, just being pushy in general, maybe even aggressive in some sense) that she would be open to working on things with me. Is this all just manipulation to keep me on the hook?
Being aggressive with my emotions towards her and sort of taking what I want, was something I never did with her. I was always very passive and sort of gave off an air of I dont care.
On the other hand, doing all of that with her is killing me inside while I know that she has OM. So for myself I feel as if its best to just sort of disappear for a while. I have not contacted her since I saw her Tuesday morning. And she has only texted me about the kids. She seems very very cold right now.
I also have been passive in the R and my instincts in this sitch tell me to get active and get active now. Right now, I'm fighting off those instincts and getting active with myself. Reading and writing has helped a ton. I did stand my ground once during my sitch and W responded well. But I backed off and am saving the next time I get aggressive for when she makes the next move. I can tell you that in the week I've been solely focusing on myself and S, I have made huge gains in the self confidence department.
I'm dressing myself well 100% of the time, wearing nice cologne, working out, eating fresh foods, and doing some things I enjoy. I'm looking for a new hobby to start and am planning on doing something to face one of my biggest fears. W has noticed and has done a few things such as touch me for the first time in 7 weeks.
Oddly enough, I am now starting to question if I even want to stay married. I am a great person and I deserve better than what W has given me in the past 2 years. I deserve someone who is willing to give themselves to a relationship 100% of the time. I have so much love to give right now and no one to give it to. That's my hardest obstacle right now.
Do yourself a favor and do something nice for yourself. Take care of yourself. It seriously has made a huge difference for me in a matter of 6 weeks. I started to detach 2 weeks ago and 1 week ago felt like I had made a good deal of progress in detaching. Since then, I've had the best week I've had in two months.
First, she is very wayward and maybe always has been. Sorry but this no longer a pattern but a lifestyle.
Do here are some things you should do and think about.
First, get tested for STDs. The lifestyle she is talking to her friend about puts you and her into jeopardy healthwise.
Second, drop this fear of embracing DBing. We all go through that "I'm not sure it will work in my sitch" crap. Knock it off! You are already on record admitting you ignored this board's very sound advice in the past. So you need to drop that attitude and be ready to let her go to get her back. And this time the RIGHT way.
She has told me she still loves me, is afraid of losing me, is attracted to me, just this last Tuesday. She has told others that if I can be consistent with what I was doing (talking to her, being open, dating, just being pushy in general, maybe even aggressive in some sense) that she would be open to working on things with me. Is this all just manipulation to keep me on the hook?
Let me ask you, do you think you are exempt from what she was talking to her friend about? Of course not! In fact you are sucker numero uno!!! Believe nothing she says. Nothing. Read Sandi's rules. Study them. Know them.
Also, get a lawyer. The first thing you need to do is move back home. Kids in a house with a WW need stability. Be that stability. A lawyer will likely tell you is within your rights to move back home.
Finally, be prepared for the worst. I can see you setting yourself up for being a worm to get her back. Won't work my friend. Maybe nothing will but that certainly will not. Take your balls back and kick het to the curb. No more dates. No more R discussions. No more sex. Not even friendship until she gives up her waywardness, all other men and agrees to your terms for R including full transparency.
Shrike, all we have is your description of your sitch.
That said, Who in their right mind would want to be with a W like that? Honestly
Do you think that confronting her will stop it?
As long as you are willing to tolerate this kind of behavior, this is what you will get. Play a stupid game, get a stupid prize.
You will not get the results that you desire until you do what needs to be done. Go work on yourself. Forget W, at least for the time being. If I were you I would be working on retaining custody and kick this one to the curb. A healthy man will not allow themselves to be treated as such. Go work on you. Self-esteem, confidence, these are areas that you need to find help with. Seek IC.
But I also understand that love is blind. Until you, no will no longer tolerate this, you will never have the person's respect.
NEVER!
Just like everyone else said, you need to move on. If she comes back, on your terms, great. But if not, then you haven't lost the person you loved, because she's gone already. As long as you're willing to tolerate her seeing other men, sending nudies, having them pay for gifts, vacations, she won't have enough respect for you to come back. Would you want to be with someone who was willing to put up with that kind of behavior from you?
Thank you all for the replies. It's definitely what I need to hear.
Would you want to be with someone who was willing to put up with that kind of behavior from you?
It has taken me a long time, maybe I even haven't, come to terms with her no longer being who I think she is in my head. No, you're right, I wouldn't stay with someone who let me act like that.
Shrike, all we have is your description of your sitch.
That said, Who in their right mind would want to be with a W like that? Honestly
Do you think that confronting her will stop it?
As long as you are willing to tolerate this kind of behavior, this is what you will get. Play a stupid game, get a stupid prize.
You will not get the results that you desire until you do what needs to be done. Go work on yourself. Forget W, at least for the time being. If I were you I would be working on retaining custody and kick this one to the curb. A healthy man will not allow themselves to be treated as such. Go work on you. Self-esteem, confidence, these are areas that you need to find help with. Seek IC.
But I also understand that love is blind. Until you, no will no longer tolerate this, you will never have the person's respect.
NEVER!
I dont think im in my right mind currently. I was more focused on confronting because I thought it would let me get out what I was feeling. Maybe help me move on a bit. Is there anything I should say? Or is it not even worth it. If I just move on and do what I need to do, im thinking she will notice. Not that it matters. I am starting to not care if she does or not.
Ive scheduled a session with my therapist for the end of the month.
First, she is very wayward and maybe always has been. Sorry but this no longer a pattern but a lifestyle.
I definately see this being the case now.
Do here are some things you should do and think about.
First, get tested for STDs. The lifestyle she is talking to her friend about puts you and her into jeopardy healthwise.
I hadnt thought about this, but will definitely talk to my doctor about it.
Second, drop this fear of embracing DBing. We all go through that "I'm not sure it will work in my sitch" crap. Knock it off! You are already on record admitting you ignored this board's very sound advice in the past. So you need to drop that attitude and be ready to let her go to get her back. And this time the RIGHT way.
She has told me she still loves me, is afraid of losing me, is attracted to me, just this last Tuesday. She has told others that if I can be consistent with what I was doing (talking to her, being open, dating, just being pushy in general, maybe even aggressive in some sense) that she would be open to working on things with me. Is this all just manipulation to keep me on the hook?
Let me ask you, do you think you are exempt from what she was talking to her friend about? Of course not! In fact you are sucker numero uno!!! Believe nothing she says. Nothing. Read Sandi's rules. Study them. Know them.
Also, get a lawyer. The first thing you need to do is move back home. Kids in a house with a WW need stability. Be that stability. A lawyer will likely tell you is within your rights to move back home.
I dont think I am willing to move back in with her, even if I could. My kids are with me 6 nights out the week and I have a larger house, closer to my daughters school now. I dont really want to put my kids back into her place more than they would have to be.
Finally, be prepared for the worst. I can see you setting yourself up for being a worm to get her back. Won't work my friend. Maybe nothing will but that certainly will not. Take your balls back and kick het to the curb. No more dates. No more R discussions. No more sex. Not even friendship until she gives up her waywardness, all other men and agrees to your terms for R including full transparency.
I Really needed to hear this. This will be the plan, or at least the outline.
She came and picked up the kids this morning. She was detached. But did go into detail about her night and being stressed with work etc. Spoke about her new hobby with crystals and tarot readings.
I did listen/validate/respond etc.. But I felt like i should have ended the conversation sooner. Felt like I was getting the ''friend'' treatment. She talked for almost an hour and I was just trying to find ways to end it.
I did not confront. I did not say I was moving on or any of the things that i am planning to do. Im sure she could still sense my sadness, even though I was trying to suppress it. Guess that doesn't really matter and all I can do is keep working until that feeling goes away.
..If I just move on and do what I need to do, im thinking she will notice. Not that it matters. I am starting to not care if she does or not.
This ^^^ is what you need to do. We all know it is difficult. Once you are thinking in a healthy manner you will be better able to decide what you really want. Getting dumped is horrible; and as men, we often feel like we need to fix it. Don't waste your time.
Fix you.
BTW, good job on the encounter. Realize that WWs like to test and see if they still have a chance. It doesn't even mean they will want a chance. They just want to know it is an option. Remember don't trust what you hear.
You might try to limit these encounters because it will only make it confusing and harder on you.
She might change. Tarot cards and crystals don't sound very positive but regardless you should proceed as advised in order to be in a place to decide once things stabilize.
..If I just move on and do what I need to do, im thinking she will notice. Not that it matters. I am starting to not care if she does or not.
This ^^^ is what you need to do. We all know it is difficult. Once you are thinking in a healthy manner you will be better able to decide what you really want. Getting dumped is horrible; and as men, we often feel like we need to fix it. Don't waste your time.
Fix you.
BTW, good job on the encounter. Realize that WWs like to test and see if they still have a chance. It doesn't even mean they will want a chance. They just want to know it is an option. Remember don't trust what you hear.
You might try to limit these encounters because it will only make it confusing and harder on you.
She might change. Tarot cards and crystals don't sound very positive but regardless you should proceed as advised in order to be in a place to decide once things stabilize.
This is the first time after being around her that I haven't felt completely devastated once she was gone. Like I sort of know where I stand at least. My emotions are still all over the place for sure. Sad one minutes, optimistic the next. The time when that all ends cant come soon enough.
I wish I could limit seeing her. But with our schedules and the kids its almost a daily thing. I really could use a break from it. But I cannot currently afford child care. She watches the during the day and I have them at night. I am actively looking for other options so I can cut down on the amount of times I have to see her during the week.
I dont know if i put much stock in that brand of spirituality, but if it helps her in some way, i would support it. its all interesting at least, and I am certainly open to it.
Shrike, I've taken a special interest in your sitch due to the similarities in sitches. Multiple EAs, some of the things your W said on BD and since. My W even start getting into horoscopes. This is a deeply devout, faithful Christian woman, one that in her youth had an interest in the occult, but in the last 20+ years has realized that they have no power, and are completely false "sciences".
However, this speaks to waywardness. WWs grasp at straws. They want anything that will tell them what they are doing is right. sandi talks about this, that the wayward that was strong in the faith will throw off that faith as it "condemns" them and the path they are taking.
This tarot stuff is her grasping at straws. Looking for any avenue that will condone what she is doing. At the occult and all the things surrounding that believe system will certainly do that. Now obviously there is nothing you can do about it. As you have said you can't control her, and to try to means you are putting your energy into false hope. However, I wanted to mention this to you so you knew this is not a good thing, spirituality or for the MR. It definitely helps her in some way, but not in a way that is conducive to your desired outcome.
I'd have something prepared to address it if and when she brings it up. Obviously do not invalidated her feelings, but you need to walk the fine line between invalidating her feelings and accepting this type of mysticism. All of this speaks to her overall morality, or the lack thereof (IE the conversations you found on her phone).
Just keep DBing....let her work out her on stuff.
Im sure she could still sense my sadness, even though I was trying to suppress it. Guess that doesn't really matter and all I can do is keep working until that feeling goes away.
No this does matter. It matters a lot. You need to try to suppress it to the point that there is no way she can sense it. Upbeat, pleasant, present, pleased, confident. That is what she should be seeing in every interaction.
Having a hard time last night/this morning. She's been sending me texts just talking about kid's etc.. and every time I see her name pop up, I just think of the things I read and saw and its very painful.
I don't really have anything to say back to her and just sort of go along with generic responses. But it doesn't make it any less difficult. Not sure if I should just say that I don't really want to communicate right now.
Remember:
Only respond to direct questions. If the text doesn't ask a question, then don't respond. If it does, answer it (but in your own time, not right away) with as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
Shrike, I've taken a special interest in your sitch due to the similarities in sitches. Multiple EAs, some of the things your W said on BD and since. My W even start getting into horoscopes. This is a deeply devout, faithful Christian woman, one that in her youth had an interest in the occult, but in the last 20+ years has realized that they have no power, and are completely false "sciences".
However, this speaks to waywardness. WWs grasp at straws. They want anything that will tell them what they are doing is right. sandi talks about this, that the wayward that was strong in the faith will throw off that faith as it "condemns" them and the path they are taking.
This tarot stuff is her grasping at straws. Looking for any avenue that will condone what she is doing. At the occult and all the things surrounding that believe system will certainly do that. Now obviously there is nothing you can do about it. As you have said you can't control her, and to try to means you are putting your energy into false hope. However, I wanted to mention this to you so you knew this is not a good thing, spirituality or for the MR. It definitely helps her in some way, but not in a way that is conducive to your desired outcome.
It does make sense that she has started all of this to try and feel right about her path. She constantly speaks to how she just wants to feel ''happy'' and good about her life. Finding herself, cutting out ''negative'' people and negative things. She has cut ties with a lot of friends and family the past few months. Mostly people that were calling her out or disagreeing with her decisions.
She has never really been super religious, she was raised catholic but has not gone to church since she was a child. I am not pushy with all of that. Ive only asked her if she was open to talking about it. To which she replied, she had a relationship with God and that it was good, but that she should be able to explore whatever path she wanted.
Just keep DBing....let her work out her on stuff.
No this does matter. It matters a lot. You need to try to suppress it to the point that there is no way she can sense it. Upbeat, pleasant, present, pleased, confident. That is what she should be seeing in every interaction.
I don't know if I can suppress it, but I definitely think that I can let it out, process it and move past it. All the bad feelings. I know I haven't given myself enough time yet, because I was too caught up in focusing on winning her back. It's time for some introspection and self healing! But as always I understand its a process, and have to deal with setbacks and bad days.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=58295&Number=2605864#Post2605864Should be a link to my old threads if anyone is interested. Planning on going back and reading through it all again. See where I was. Might be good to reflect.
Not feeling as bad tonight or right now. I did not respond to her last message and she has not sent me a new one since about 10am. Definitely feels weird not talking to her as much. It has been a week now since I started ''as little contact as possible''.
Our schedules right now make it extremely hard to get a life. She works at night at a bar (a not so good environment) I have an ok day job, but have been laid off twice in the last 4 years and each time it set me back further and we went into debt further. Trying to balance my debt, the rent, bills, food etc, makes it extremely difficult to afford child care. Before the split our schedule was so, to save money, to pay debt and buy a house. Now it has carried over into the separation, so that I have to basically see her everyday to get the kids before she goes to work at night and in the morning when she picks them up from me. So I have them every night during the week except Tuesday when she doesn't work. In addition she works Friday and Saturday nights, so its hard for me to do anything on my own on the weekends to GAL unless I find a sitter. We have then been alternating Sundays. They only way for me to change this, would be to try and find daycare for my children and split or alternate weeks, this would force her to find someone to watch the children at nights, or find a new job, neither I'm sure she is willing to do right now. Especially since being at her work, is a huge enabler of her current lifestyle.
I signed a one year lease in a pet free rental in May. The market here is kind of crazy for rentals, and at the time I felt like I needed to get out of the house, since, she had insisted on it, and we were fighting so much. We had two dog's who I miss dearly, who now live with her. Something I remember her saying back in July when we started talking again and where getting along quite well and being very intimate was that she would have considered moving into my new place if they allowed pets. I remember saying I could most likely get them to amend the rental agreement, but she then back tracked and said that would be a waste of money, since she wasnt interested in a relationship with me anyway. She then said something along the lines of, you being here gives you a year to prove that you can change.
I remember asking her a lot if she would like to live separate, just date, and get to know each other and see where things go, as long as there was no om. The answer was often, ill have to think about it, maybe, or we will see. Odd now to me that it must have felt good for her to be able to pick and choose at will when she would have contact with me or not. I remember hanging on to every little scrap she would throw me and eat it up. And I just thought we were getting along.
Maybe I paint too dark a picture of her, she did not seem malicious at the time, but I cannot help but wonder what was running through her head and imagining it being something along those lines.
The answer was often, ill have to think about it, maybe, or we will see.
I've learned that this answer means "no, but I'm happy to let you think I'm considering it as it gives me power over you."
I remember asking her a lot if she would like to live separate, just date, and get to know each other and see where things go, as long as there was no om. The answer was often, ill have to think about it, maybe, or we will see. Odd now to me that it must have felt good for her to be able to pick and choose at will when she would have contact with me or not. I remember hanging on to every little scrap she would throw me and eat it up. And I just thought we were getting along.
You two weren't there yet. These questions constitute an R talk. There are reasons for these rules. We all want results without working the process. It just doesn't work that way.
You are doing things that work now. Keep doing them. Remove the pressure. She will change. Detach. GAL Do it.
Today marks 2 weeks of strict DB. Yesterday was weird. (but in reflection is actually normal behavior for her, that I would usually try to supplicate with apologies and promises of making it better.)
She comes to pick up the kids. I'm just finishing getting ready for work. I'm putting my light happy joking face on.
But not just for her, been trying to get back to that at all times around everyone. Because I refuse to be the sad miserable depressed person I have been for the last decade. I want to emulate the confident, easy going guy I was when I was 18-22.
Anyways, I joke with her a bit, nothing to serious, I'm finishing my coffee and shes telling me about how work is picking up and how its relieved some stress for her financial situation, I just say that's great for her. Then she starts on about her step mom leaving her a note in her mailbox (they had a falling out about a month ago, because the step mom called her out on what shes been doing, she had seen it at the bar she works at) telling her how shitty a person she is and a bad wife and how she just runs from all her problems and is irresponsible etc etc etc. The water works start coming as she normally does.
I really didn't know how to respond, because I would normally hug her, say how horrible it is for her to talk to her like that, tell her its ok, how can I help. But I ended up keeping my distance, telling her that it was definitely a bad situation and that I didn't know why they where treating each other like that.
She stopped the tears almost instantly and got really cold. I decided to leave at that point and said to tell the kids I loved them and said goodbye.
She called me about 15 minutes later while im driving and started screaming at me about not doing any of my daughters homework. About how its irresponsible and how she doesn't understand why I couldn't just do it like a good father. I just straight up said I didn't like the way she was talking to me and that we could talk about it later, said goodbye and hung up.
She called about 15 minutes later again! And started going off about how she couldn't find my sons diapers anywhere and started crying on the phone about having to tear the house apart looking for them and how she didn't need this stress in her life and how it was my fault. Again I just said, I didn't know where they were and that I was busy, said goodbye and hung up.
Around 5pm she texts me "I wanted to apologize for freaking out on you this morning. I understand youre going through a lot and the homework is really tedious, I'm just worried about her" I replied, ''I hear what you are saying, and I am worried about her too. I just don't appreciate the tone you took. It is disrespectful to me.'' She replied '' Again, I apologize, I hope you have good night.'' Me ''I hope you do too'' end of conversation and she hasn't talked to me since.
Hoping I did well with my responses. I felt a little hard line once she started with the emotional swings, but I think it was necessary.
Today marks 2 weeks of strict DB. Yesterday was weird. (but in reflection is actually normal behavior for her, that I would usually try to supplicate with apologies and promises of making it better.)
She comes to pick up the kids. I'm just finishing getting ready for work. I'm putting my light happy joking face on.
But not just for her, been trying to get back to that at all times around everyone. Because I refuse to be the sad miserable depressed person I have been for the last decade. I want to emulate the confident, easy going guy I was when I was 18-22.
This is awesome! That is the right attitude. Depression is not always a choice, but sometimes it is. We choose to be miserable instead of focusing on all of the many blessings that we enjoy and should be thankful for. Great 180!
Anyways, I joke with her a bit, nothing to serious, I'm finishing my coffee and shes telling me about how work is picking up and how its relieved some stress for her financial situation, I just say that's great for her. Then she starts on about her step mom leaving her a note in her mailbox (they had a falling out about a month ago, because the step mom called her out on what shes been doing, she had seen it at the bar she works at) telling her how shitty a person she is and a bad wife and how she just runs from all her problems and is irresponsible etc etc etc. The water works start coming as she normally does.
I really didn't know how to respond, because I would normally hug her, say how horrible it is for her to talk to her like that, tell her its ok, how can I help. But I ended up keeping my distance, telling her that it was definitely a bad situation and that I didn't know why they where treating each other like that.
She stopped the tears almost instantly and got really cold. I decided to leave at that point and said to tell the kids I loved them and said goodbye.
Missed opportunity here. This was a perfect opportunity to validate. "Wow, I can really understand how that would make you feel." Read the validation thread and be ready for the next opportunity.
She called me about 15 minutes later while im driving and started screaming at me about not doing any of my daughters homework. About how its irresponsible and how she doesn't understand why I couldn't just do it like a good father. I just straight up said I didn't like the way she was talking to me and that we could talk about it later, said goodbye and hung up.
Perfectly handled. Next time you can also point out that you will not tolerate her being disrespectful.
She called about 15 minutes later again! And started going off about how she couldn't find my sons diapers anywhere and started crying on the phone about having to tear the house apart looking for them and how she didn't need this stress in her life and how it was my fault. Again I just said, I didn't know where they were and that I was busy, said goodbye and hung up.
Here was another opportunity to validate. You didn't handle this poorly but you could have validated her feelings. Remember, no need to shut things down unless she is being disrespectful. Blaming you in and of itself isn't disrespectful as long as she isn't shouting or attacking you. Remember, VALIDATE.
Around 5pm she texts me "I wanted to apologize for freaking out on you this morning. I understand youre going through a lot and the homework is really tedious, I'm just worried about her" I replied, ''I hear what you are saying, and I am worried about her too. I just don't appreciate the tone you took. It is disrespectful to me.'' She replied '' Again, I apologize, I hope you have good night.'' Me ''I hope you do too'' end of conversation and she hasn't talked to me since.
Hoping I did well with my responses. I felt a little hard line once she started with the emotional swings, but I think it was necessary.
Very well handled with her apology! YOU validated ("I am worried too") and you got in the thing about not tolerating disrespect.
Overall, I give you a solid A-! Good job.
Thanks Steve, I have always struggled to validate. Something I have been improving on the last few years. It is especially difficult to do when I am not really feeling it with her, and even more so when I am angry, which I was.
Finding it difficult today to not let thoughts of OM xyz pop into my head. Same with thoughts of guy's I thought were friends asking her out on dates the moment they found out she singled herself up. Hurts a lot. Being bored at work does not help.
Had a pretty long post that I somehow deleted. Going to just try and summarize. apologies for the punctuation. Dark thoughts going to dark places in my head this evening.
Lots of anger on my way to get kids. Had to just sort of scream it out in the car.
Had an extremely difficult time getting into happy mode trying to ''chit chat'' with her. Backslid a lot on my attitude.
she talked mainly about the kids and trying to help my daughter with homework. i think shes done homework with her only a handful of times in 4 years. said shes cooking for them again.
sometimes it feels like shes db'ing me or mirroring my attitude. definitely seems like she is closing me out more and more over the last 2 weeks. is this just the natural conclusion our relationship was meant to take. Seems like a waste of a decade.
anyway i think she could tell the mood i was in and decided to leave, she said see you later and gave me this really weird look as she left.
feeling like i bombed that conversation and that she is taking tally. more of the same old angry emotionally suppressed me. It bothers me deeply that I cannot hold myself together during these small interactions and that they are really important. May not have many more.
is it normal to flip between so many different emotions so fast. its sadness, anger, disgust, love repeating itself in my head over and over.
with lack of funds and having my 1 year old almost every night, its extremely hard to get any sort of life. i want to take them to sport events or anything really, but the city im in is so spread out it takes forever to get anywhere and he usually has to be in bed around 730-8. Feeling very stuck right now. physically, mentally, emotionally. like a messed up fish bowl limbo.
I am angry because the woman I love has chosen a path in life separate from me, and I have no control over it. It is okay to feel anger. The anger itself is not the issue, it is what you do with the anger you feel. You can choose to ignore it and stuff it down, but this could end up making it come back even more powerful the next time.
If you accept your emotion, and find a healthy way of coping with it, then it loses its power over you and you can healthily detach from it when you need to.
I accept that I am angry and that I cannot make someone love me. I am coping with it by using breathing exercises and trying to observe the feeling from a zoomed out view of myself. To see the whole issue and get a better picture of it. This is but a moment in the timeline of my life and if I look back I can see all the GOOD along with the bad. If I look ahead, I can imagine all of the GOOD that is coming. These feelings are temporary and will pass. This time of my life does not determine who I am, it does not have control over me.
Anger is an energy.
Use it wisely to make positive changes in other parts of your life. That will make you feel better.
It is very very normal to have these emotional swings. You are going through one of the most trying experiences humans can have. It sounds like you are doing things right. Keep it up!
Interesting texts from her last night.
Her: I dont think I can give you what you want right now.
Me: what is it you think I want?
h:all of me, physically and emotionally, I mean physically I can give you what you want no problem lol, but emotionally no. Commitments no. What do you want exactly
m: right now, i just want to set boundaries, im not ok with all of this, its volatile isnt it?
h: thats entirely up to you?
m: yeah, I get that. I guess then i dont really want anything from you. I want you to go through whatever you are going through and come out the other side a better person. I know you've been struggling with yourself for years. Just as I have been struggling with myself.
h: thats probably the most encouraging thing you've said to me. I have definitely been struggling and its ongoing, but I feel like im working on it. I hope you like the person I am after its all said and done? I also hope we can reconcile after we've actually made positive changes? not just superficial ones
m: what exactly does reconcile mean to you? i think you need to face your inner issues alone, because I will get in the way if i tried to be there for you.
then she didn't text me back and I assume that was too much pressure from me.
this morning, when she was picking up the kids, I could tell she was avoiding the conversation. I didn't try to push it, but she asked why I was being so quiet.
I said, because she never answered the question.
then she said it could mean lots of things really, ''i feel like we have sort of reconciled already''
I said ''no, we just haven't been fighting''
she said, ''oh, well it could just mean that in the future we have a new relationship or even a friendship.''
I said ''no, it doesn't mean friendship to me'' she just laughed and said ''oh just the one thing then''
I said'' maybe, just the one thing, who know's.
I ended it there and said i hope she had a good day and I would see her later to get the kids.
This stuff is difficult. I wasnt feeling down or out, felt pretty positive and confident. i kept it calm and was sure of myself in my answers, even if I was unsure if they were the right things to say.
Oh well, new day!
I know you want answers. I know what it's like to want someone to tell you what the conversations mean.
Don't trust what you hear. All I take from this is that she doesn't want you to hate her. Typical WAW stuff.
m: yeah, I get that. I guess then i don't really want anything from you. I want you to go through whatever you are going through and come out the other side a better person. I know you've been struggling with yourself for years. Just as I have been struggling with myself.
You saw a positive response from this. That's because you relieved the pressure. Continue to remove any pressure.
You're still trying to skip steps. These aren't optional. If they were, we would all skip steps. Go back and read Sandi's rules. Listen and validate. Show her that you plan to move forward with or without her.
This will not change until you do these things.
From my perspective, the hardest thing you're going to have to deal with is lack of detachment. It's hard to detach when you see/interact with her every day. As long as you're still attached, you're plan "B". No one wants to go with plan B. I don't have any answers as to how to do that. GAL helps.
From my perspective, the hardest thing you're going to have to deal with is lack of detachment. It's hard to detach when you see/interact with her every day. As long as you're still attached, you're plan "B". No one wants to go with plan B. I don't have any answers as to how to do that. GAL helps.
I re-read the detachment post after you replied with this and you are correct I am having a very hard time with:
"The Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
And:
Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life."
I
feel as if I am doing well with the rest of the list. But those two parts have a profound affect on me through out the day. For almost 7 months now. I have been unable to let go of her.
I have GAL, I have been doing every 180. I have validated my brains out. But I am still unable to protect myself from her emotionally. I am still allowing what she does to have power over me and my thoughts. I don't like it. I do want it to go away, but I remember from the first time around being told this was like a broken arm, and that I would have to let it heal.
Keep being mindful of myself. Change my reality with purposeful and consistent action. Raise my children. And eventually get to where she doesn't have the ability to affect me like that anymore.
My mistake the first time was rushing to take her back the instant she asked. No questions, no boundaries, nothing worked on. I do not want that to happen again.
So you must let her go, but not like the first break up. You must go on with your life and she must know that. No more cake eating. Game is over. It’s gonna be her loss and she must face that reality. She has a long road to ride to mend your MR.
You need to be strong and face your fears.
I have been unable to let go of her.
My threads are long and probably pretty boring. There's no need for you to read them, but to summarize, I have/had a hard time letting go, too. Our D has dragged on a long time, and I've found those periods where I have less contact with her are the times I gain the most emotional distance. You are seeing her every day, so it's going to be hard for you, too.
Eventually, you will get to a point where you are just tired of being in limbo, and are ready to move on. You are doing most things right, and it will just take time.
Trying to get some stuff out of my head.
had a pretty big step backwards this week. dropping kids off with her Monday night at her place, was waiting for her to get home. she had told me the night before that it was ok to do so.
she gets home and loses it on me. she got passed up by the owner of her restaurant for a bartending job that went to some new girl. and she is crying and screaming about how they only chose her because she had a bigger bra size. how her job was the last place where she felt like she belonged, and how it was where she went to get away and now everything was wrong and she had to quit.
She goes on and on about how no one cares about how she feels. everyone just wants something from her, me included etc etc. That I forced her to take kids that night and she never gets alone time. she goes into how terrible I was in the marriage and how I deserve everything I'm going through. how I'm not a man. that a man takes what he wants but treats his woman with respect. How there's so many other guys out there that will give her exactly what she wants. and some other stuff that I don't really remember. But it just kept coming, on and on, she just beat me down. I basically just listened not really sure how to react. I did not want to validate, because most of the things I felt like where hysteria.
I am aware that I am supposed to be detached and not believe anything she says, and I tried, but that combined with everything else in my life, the depression, taking the kids on alone every night, my daughter struggling in school, her being involved with OM, debt, basically felt like my whole life fell apart. I felt like I had no control over anything. I ended up getting really suicidal and having to go to the emergency department, where I spent 48 hours on a psych ward.
I never really thought I was the type of person that this sort of thing would happen too. My whole family found out, they called her family and called her. She came over crying on Thursday morning but I just had nothing left for her.
I didn't want it to seem like the suicidal thoughts where to guilt her into coming back.
So here I am now, back at work. Trying to focus on myself. I have an apt with a new therapist next week and I'm starting some new anti depressants today. Thoughts of hopelessness still come and go. As do thoughts of her and the life we are leaving behind. Hard to see past all of this. But my family is being super supportive. My mom has been helping with the kids a lot the pass few days, so I am grateful. I just hate that I had to put all of this on them.
Praying to get through this. Thank you all for being another voice of support.
Ill keep you in my prayers Shrike. I know exactly what your going through, and how tough it is. There are a lot of dark days, but as time goes on more and more good ones will start appearing. Like me, you really have to let her go for now simply tp focus on you. Build the best life for YOU that you can regardless of your sitch with W. Hang in there!
Shrike,
Hang in there. Almost all of us understand how emotionally turbulent this can be under any circumstances. You need to take care of yourself at this point. It sounds like you have the support of your family which is huge. Use them. Be grateful for the support. Meds have helped a lot of people here through tough times, so I hope that they help you get out of the depressive fog. Working with an IC is super helpful as well. You are so young and have a bright future in front of you. You just need to get through this.
Thank you guys. Sincerely. Reading the encouragement really does help. Knowing others are on the same path, makes it more real. I hate the fact that good people have to go through this too. But, that others are ahead of me on the path, brings some sort of odd comfort, because you can see where I am at behind you and can call back and tell me its ok to keep moving forward.
I am systematically cutting her out of my life and will reduce the amount of time I have to see her to hopefully only once or twice a week. I will be here for my children and getting caught up in everything doesn't allow me to do that.
I never want to feel that low again. But I will be better prepared if it does happen. I wanted to do this without medication. But several people I talked to, told me all it can do is help. I have a history of depression, but this takes the cake.
I am trying to figure out why this is so much harder the second time.
I know this is a process, I know that this cant last forever. But dang is this painful journey.
It sounds like its been a really tough week for you. It's not fair, it's painful. But it will get better. Some days will be worse, but the overall trend will get better.
My only advice is when your W goes on a rant and you can't validate, and she's blaming you for everything wrong in her life, you don't have to listen. Just leave.
Take care of your self.
Update I guess. Been a while. I had been basically no contact with her, unless it was about the kids or shared debt/money. Psychiatrist is still working with me to find a medication that she thinks will help me the most.
Last night she had mentioned she wanted to talk to me and so while she picked up the kids I listened to what she had to say. It did not go as I had hoped. But I suppose as I suspected it would.
Basically more of the same. I think she has a lot of healing to go through as well and just inst there.
She said that she doesn't see herself being happy if she were to come back to me. That what I bring to the table isn't attractive to her. My life and what I bring to a relationship is too much work for her, and not something she wants to be a part of.
She cant forget or forgive me for ''abandoning'' her with our second child.
All of our marriage was a waste of time to her. 10 years just thrown out. It was all bad to her. Nothing good came of it. And she cant open herself up to more of that with me. Its all she sees when she looks at me.
The only time she really loved me was when we were dating.
Our sex life was boring for her and she was never satisfied. She did the things she did with other men, because she just wanted to feel loved.
All of our marriage was a waste of time to her. 10 years just thrown out. It was all bad to her. Nothing good came of it. And she cant open herself up to more of that with me. Its all she sees when she looks at me.
The only time she really loved me was when we were dating.
Our sex life was boring for her and she was never satisfied. She did the things she did with other men, because she just wanted to feel loved.
Hey man. Reading some of your old posts and you seem a lot like me. I’ve only been here like 3 months but that quote right there ^^^ is just donkey garbage. LIES. She’s saying that with the intent to hurt you, not because it’s true. Why hurt you? Probably self-defense. She’s saying that nonsense because she’s trying to convince herself. Not you.
Don’t let it eat at you. And don’t get into any more convos like that. Darkness reigns.
I had to go through the same stuff. I validated and I just pretended she was a neighbor that was inexplicably dumping her awful day on me in the checout line at the grocery store. You know? Like when you're trying to be polite but also stuck, and you've just got to make it until it's your turn to check out, but you also want to be polite.
The personal attacks are just the typical venomous self-justification things they say. You can always just say "That sounds pretty bad. It must have been hard for you to deal with that." -shrug- And leave the room. I mean, it's quick and easy and it takes no emotions.
Shrike, first let me say I just saw your post from a while back about the depression and I'm very sorry you are going through that. Almost the exact same thing happened to me a few months after BD. I thought I was doing great and handling things just fine and ready to let my ex go. Then out of nowhere I got slammed with severe depression, anxiety attacks and suicidal thoughts. I immediately went to the doc like you did and got on A/D's. It took a couple of weeks for them to fully kick in but when they did I felt pretty much like my old, normal, pre-BD self. I was on them a few months and then weaned off with the help of my doc. It's been many years and I've never had issues again, so hopefully it'll be the same for you.
Regarding this:
Last night she had mentioned she wanted to talk to me and so while she picked up the kids I listened to what she had to say. It did not go as I had hoped. But I suppose as I suspected it would.
Basically more of the same. I think she has a lot of healing to go through as well and just inst there.
She said that she doesn't see herself being happy if she were to come back to me. That what I bring to the table isn't attractive to her. My life and what I bring to a relationship is too much work for her, and not something she wants to be a part of.
She cant forget or forgive me for ''abandoning'' her with our second child.
All of our marriage was a waste of time to her. 10 years just thrown out. It was all bad to her. Nothing good came of it. And she cant open herself up to more of that with me. Its all she sees when she looks at me.
The only time she really loved me was when we were dating.
Our sex life was boring for her and she was never satisfied. She did the things she did with other men, because she just wanted to feel loved.
Oh BLAH BLAH BLAH cry me a damned river. I hope you didn't give that crap one iota of consideration. Like she even needs to say all this garbage again, you've heard it all before, what's the point. Not sure if you've seen Joe2017's recent posts, but his is the most recent example of just how radically a WAS can turn around. If you read his early posts his WAS was telling him she didn't feel safe around him, she felt trapped, he wasn't fulfilling her needs and she had guys in the gym hitting on her, etc. etc. Now? She's humble, apologetic, begging him for another chance. Your W may very well get there eventually too. For now, don't believe anything she says, it's all just spew. Next time she says she wants to have a talk, I would be inclined to say if it's not about the kids you're not interested.