Hello everyone. I've been reading this forum for about a month after having read DR. My heart is with everyone on here going through this right now.
I've been living with W for 9 years and married 6. We have a 3 year old son.
Early August W approached me to tell me that she's in love with her ex. She has been talking to him for two years and starting in July or so, she started having feelings. She has seen him twice for no more than 2 hours total as he lives 200 miles away. She has obviously told him how she feels in our M as he has given her a list of promises that are exactly what I haven't given her. Herd her ex have a pretty bad past. She blamed me for not making her forget about him. To be fair, I've been very emotionally distant and intimacy has been very little since the birth of our son. I was totally blindsighted by the revelation as I've never trusted someone so much in my life. She has been very forthcoming since the revelation about her ex. However, I am sure she's still hiding something. But that's the past, I am working in the now.
She asked for an in home separation that allowed her to keep talking to him and allowed me to meet others. She was very adamant she didn't know what she wanted and just needed space and time. She stated she was scared and extraordinarily depressed. She wished she could just disappear. I agreedbto the in home separation.. I didn't intend to meet anyone not did I try. During this time, I did everything wrong. Clingy, begging etc. First of September, I reached a point that I just couldn't be part of this game. I gave her an ultimatum. She quits talking to him or I'm out. She asked for a day or so to consider. I said sure as long as she doesn't talk to him during this time. She agreed and seemed very relieved. Two days later, she told me she informed him that she will not talk to him anymore. Up to this point, I feel like she is keeping her word.
She was very adamant that she still needed space and time but suggested counseling at some point and has been making future plans with me. Yesterday, she sent a couple of texts while at work and touched me for the first time in over a month.
It's been 9 days since she agreed to stop talking to him and I've been nothing but clingy. This is pushing her away as I make mistake after mistake. Last night she told me there's nothing I can show her that'll help get toward R. It's confusing me as I've seen some progress. I'm also confused because she's told me she needs to see action and see that our son, family, and her are my number one priority. So I feel like I'm walking a tightrope.
I have started individual therapy regarding my emotional disconnect from her and our son. Since the bomb drop, I have been 100% committed to the family. My priorities have realigned and during the 3 or so hours we are all 3 together, it has been great. At 9, when son goes to bed, is when I get all needy. I'm not interested in detachment and gal during the hours my son is awake. Him and I have a stronger bond than we've ever had.
The help I'm asking for is how do I balance showing where my priorities are with gal and detachment? I feel like I have a solid outlook on a 180 and have made a plan. As for GAL and detachment, I know what I have to do at 9pm. Read, visit friends, etc. I'm also planning some father and son outings just the two of us.
Okay, first welcome to the board, sorry you are here. But you will get advice here that will help you with people that have been through similar things.
First, please stop taking everything she says at face value. Believe NOTHING she says and only half of what she does. WAWs/WWs are notorious for trying to come up with impossible to live by terms. "I want to be the #1 priority, but I need time and space." Is that contradictory? You bet it is. But here is why:
Please brace yourself for this because it is going to hurt: she wants YOU to end things. WAWs/WWs rarely end things with the OM over ultimatums. Likely she told him to back off and wait for her. And now she is trying to get you to get fed up and to end the marriage. My sitch was very similar to yours. My W also made the "disappear" comment. That stems from her feeling stuck. She feels like she wants to be free to pursue a R with this ex, or eventually another OM (note, it is rarely about THAT particular OM, but he is just the current catalyst). They feel stuck in lots of ways, not wanting to hur their child, you, not wanting family and friends to know, not wanting to give up the life they have......but yet that lure of a new exciting carefree life is there too.
You need to back off completely. You cannot nice her back. You cannot cling her back. You cannot prioritize her back. You have to give her the time and space she needs. You have to be ready to move on to show her what she stands to lose. You have to GAL and detach. Period.
And yes, that means some nights you are out with the guys doing GAL activities and away from S. If you end up D'd you will have longer periods of time where you are separated from him, so it is something you need to get yourself used to. Plus it is good for both of you to also have some time away from each other (I mean you and S).
So stop the clingyness, detach. GAL. Continue to spend time with your S, but that doesn't mean it has to be every waking hour. You have to give her up to get her back.
Finally quit obsessing over the ex or any other OM that comes along. Part of giving her time and space is you do not try to control her. Telling her to not have contact with him does to things: 1) it makes you look controlling and 2) makes the R with the ex even more romantic. Notice neither of these things are positive for you.
Thanks. I agree with you on all points. The obsessing over the OM is why I get so clingy. I know she wants me to end things. She will not do it herself.
The hardest thing in detaching will be losing time with my S. We only get about 3 hours a day as it stands and I'm going to have a hard time losing any part of this bond that's become so strong with my S.
I get the S thing. However, I need you to ask yourself to be honest about it. Are you using spending time with your S as an excuse to spend time with your W? You don't have to answer in a response, just think about that. Many times LBSs will put barriers up to DBing like this for reasons that are not pure. Maybe you are being pure, but I don't think a couple of nights a week where you are out GAL will hurt your bond with your S, especially if you are fully engaged with him the other 4-5 nights a week.
My son and I have always had a really good relationship and our time together has been great. I'd say there is some truth to using S time to have W time. But there hasn't been any other choice. If I want time with him, it has had to involve her.
I'm going to break that cycle this week in starting to take him to do things on our own and suggest W does the same.
Another hard thing is that W wants to have dinner as a family every night. Her and I split cooking time and she's really been putting a great deal of effort into what she cooks lately. Do I start making my son dinner and not include W? Or do dinner the 3 of us and then go about other business?
Welcome to the Board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
My son and I have always had a really good relationship and our time together has been great. I'd say there is some truth to using S time to have W time. But there hasn't been any other choice. If I want time with him, it has had to involve her.
I'm going to break that cycle this week in starting to take him to do things on our own and suggest W does the same.
Another hard thing is that W wants to have dinner as a family every night. Her and I split cooking time and she's really been putting a great deal of effort into what she cooks lately. Do I start making my son dinner and not include W? Or do dinner the 3 of us and then go about other business?
I'd vote for the last one. Some of this stuff depends on your sitch, And you know it better than we do. Admittedly some of the things that worked in my sitch were not DBing tactics. But I hesitate to tell posters here that because those things only work in very specific circumstances and a very small % of sitches.
Children are only young once. Even when they are young they sense that things are not quite right. They are the completely innocent bystanders in all of this. And regardless of how young they are they get traumatized.
Marmar has an already established routine with his child, is the advise to cut back on time with his baby or to establish the same time spent with his child but alone?
#1. If this goes to divorce his wife will be documenting the time they each spend with the baby. To establish custody and financials.
#2. You say that you and your child have a strong bond. That is good for your child. Your child will need that to continue to get through all that.
#3 make your child the priority. Not DB, not GAL. We have had so many older kids on these boards that were cutting themselves, or had suicide attempts. The younger kids develop behavior issues, hair pulling problems, difficulty with potty training.
You sound like a great dad. I think talk to a social worker or counselor that specializes in the needs of children during separation and divorce. They will have more experience in how to cope and will be able to guide you through this.
Thanks. As a family unit, the 3 of us, things are near perfect. Extraordinarily strong bonds. As a couple, I became emotionally distant and intimately distant. That broke W down over time. She has zero interest in seeing if she can accept love and intimacy from me right now. Although she is working in regaining trust. I am also working on regaining trust and building my own foundation.
It's just so confusing. She talked to me for an hour last night about giving her space and that she has no interest in working on R until she works on herself. However the last 24 hours she keeps texting, sending pics of her day, and has been offering hugs. Which is the first time she's touched me in a month.
Marmar, you've admitted to using S time for W time as well. So 180 on that. Plan a couple of nights a week doing something just for you (hanging out with friends, etc), and then plan 2-3 nights where it just you and S. Give her the space she asked for.
If she ever brings up "you stopped doing things with me!" You can say, "look,you this is what you wanted. I never did. I wanted us to be a couple and work on our MR, but you were against that. When you are ready for us to try that I will be glad to oblige."
Taking time for yourself doesn't make you a bad parent. Plus it will give your S a chance to bond with the WAW one-on-one as well.
I forgot to mention something important. After she agreed to quit talking to OM, she said she doesn't consider us separated anymore. She also stated that no matter how this turns out, I will fare better than her. Her life will be crap and mine glorious and happy.
It's very clear that I need to grab this situation by the reins and begin the moving on process. Detach. I can detach while giving my son the attention and continuity he deserves. From 6-9 I will be 100% present even if all three of us are together. I will begin slowly taking S out on my own maybe an hour at first and see how that goes. W is in very bad emotional state and I don't want to take the only thing that gives her light away too much. But I do want her to start seeing what life after D may look like.
Before 6 and after 9 I will be fully detached other than some behind the scenes fatherly stuff such as laundry, packing lunches, etc.
I'm fully prepared if she starts talking to OM again. I'm also fully prepared for any other hidden secrets that may come to light. I've learned a great deal about myself through this and I can handle anything that's thrown my way. This 180 and gal does make me nervous, but I've learned through this ordeal that the negative emotions are temporary and I will feel better about things. The most important aspect of this is our S and his future. I want to work things out with W and I want our family to stay together. What I've been doing isn't going to accomplish eaither. Next step is 180, detach, and gal.
Please keep commenting if you have anything to say. Just having this board has given me some strength.
Update. Went and hung out with some musician friends. Came home in time to tell S goodnight. W wanted to chat about potty training. She was an emotional wreck. Crying and questioning if she's a good mother. She's Beena fine mother and I reassured her. We developed a more rigorous potty training plan.
Went to bed. Still having a really hard time sleeping. I'm feel like a walking 24 hr panic attack. Mostly obsessing about OM and losing time with my son in a D. Can't stop wondering if she's talking to OM. I want to spy, Snoop, and ask. But I'm fighting it. I'm mostly in an ok mood. Work is going well.
No texts from her at all today. Came home from work and everyone was sleeping. W organized and cleaned the kitchen which is out of character for her.
W has a work dinner this evening. S is sick so we are going to hang. She is definitely noticing some changes in my disposition and mood. It's hard to keep it up. When I'm around her, I get weak but I'm holding strong.
Update. 1 week after starting to detach.
I have been feeling mostly pretty good. Sleeping well again. Appetite is back. I've been carrying myself in a pretty positive and confident manner just about 100% of the time. I have a new emotion since this the BD. I'm angry and I want to express it. My instinct tells me W needs to see me as a man that'll actively stand up for what he believes in. However, ldoing so, negates detachment.
S is really responding well to my connecting with him in an even deeper manner. He even came to me at 3AM when he couldn't sleep rather than to my W.
W has been off and on cheerful. She's been flirty a few times and has been reaching out to offer hugs. She has asked me 3 nights in a row to hang out after S goes to bed. When I say no, she is bisually disturbed.
My feelings have really changed this week as I've reflected on the past 6-7 weeks as well as the last 3 years. During this week, I've also really watched her and paid attention to her actions. Some things I've thought about and observed have me thinking and questioning if I even want to stay married to her. I wonder if my drive to hold this family together has more to do with S than it has to do with myself and W. I'm not making any sort of decision, but I have been questioning myself and daydreaming of how great life could be as a single dad.
Zero evidence of W speaking with OM. It's still hard to not think about. If I hit a low point, it always is because I'm thinking too much and wondering if We is still talking to him.
When W and I first started these conversations, we drew up some rules in order to keep S as safe as possible. One rule is Sundays can be status update talks after S goes to bed. W mentioned last night that she may have a few things to talk about. I'm not going to say a word other than things to ensure she knows I'm listening.
GAL outside the house is nearly impossible as my S has become my number 1 priority. The internal changes I'm making have allowed me to become more connected to him. I can GAL inside the house as best as possible and after he goes to bed. I have some weekend plans for after 9 next weekend. The internal changes have been very noticeable at work. I have folks writing little appreciation memos to me as well as notes to my boss. I'm focusing my efforts to continue that internal growth as well as moving on with my life and 180's. It seems though, that the more I image moving on, the less I feel like Id work on R. I'd say right now, I'm 50/50.
Prior to BD, we had discussed moving closer to her family and I was kind of excited about this possibilities as we've had zero family support and little contact since S was born. Early on in this sitch, W stated that we will probably end up not moving and I'd end up with an amazing life without her while she'd be a mess and OM would be a broken mess. The other day, she brought up the possibility of moving again...as a couple or as single parents. That made me angry but I didn't let it show. I have an incredible job with a new leadership position and giving that up to move 3 hours away and farther from my parents so she can live closer to OM is not going to happen. If we move, it'll be after some time of successful R.
W has stated several times that if we D, she wants to remain close friends and co-parent 50/50 as much as possible. She keeps saying I will always be part of her life. I'm all for the best co-parent relationship possible as S is number 1. I don't understand how she can expect us to be such good friends. Does she think I'm just going to hang and talk about my life like her girl friend?
I don't know. How many times have people detached and then been the one that ending up leading the way to the D? I'm not there yet and I am prepared to wait it out for her to make whatever move comes next. I turn 40 next month and I keep thinking that I need to move on and start my new life. I'm not a person I like when I've lost trust for someone. There's no way I can be in a marriage when I lack any bit of trust.
Update. W is still in the house and W has been talking more and more about our M. W said we should go on a date or two. We have been on 2 dates in 3.5 years since S was born. Last time we spoke about our M, she instigated. She complained that now I'm becoming too connected and involved. This after 2 months ago she asked that I become more connected and involved. She actually doesn't remember much of what shes said in the last 2 months. Her talk also made it fairly clear that she has put OM on hold and hasn't ruled him out. She is truly lost.
My personal therapy is going well. Therapist says I'm doing all I can do and am doing all the right things for myself. He even hinted that I should consider if I deserve better or not. I think I do and have taken a giant leap in detaching. Daydreaming about single father life all the time. I'm going to be ok. Actually, the path to R looks to be more troubling than the path to D. I've put a soft deadline on how long I can go like this.
So, all is ok. Hope you all are doing well.
So she's sending mixed signals right??? Don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does. Her repeated actions will tell the truth.
You do deserve better, and I agree that the divorce is probably an easier path.
Your W wants to remain "close friends" if you D, b/c she doesn't want to lose you. But she won't commit to you. So she wants you to be OK as plan B. It sounds like she needs to hear from you that you won't be her friend. Period. End of story.
Yeah. She has been very clear what she wants with a D. Close co-parent relationship. Even discussed living on the same street or neighborhood. Hanging out at school and sports events etc. I was very clear that I would only communicate with her in a business like manner and only in regards to our S.
I'm not sure I'm a plan B. That would require her to even have a plan in the first place. She may have a plan, but it appears she has no clue as to any plan. She has spoken freely what the obstacles are in R and in D for her.
I almost wish she'd get caught talking to OM again so I have the excuse I need to start the D process. Living like things are now is terrible. W has hour to hour mood swings. I'm just going about my life as normal trying to be a lighthouse and build my own foundation. I'm hanging in there for my S and myself. S needs a solid foundation.
In terms of not believing what she says, I don't think she is lying. I just don't think she has even the first idea of what she wants or how she feels. It also seems as if she has cut contact with OM for 3 weeks or more. She leaves her phone lying around unattended all the time now. If she is communication with him, it's another way other than her phone. She also never has her computer out anymore. So, worst case scenario is that she told him to back off a while and I'll just quit trying at some point.