Hello all, I am looking for some advice. I've been reading the forums for almost a month but now just registered. My wife moved out 8 days ago after a 2 month live in separation (which I feel as though I screwed up by being too needy, arguing, etc.) Four days before she moved out, we spent the day together (breakfast, mall, etc) and I told her that I wanted to work things out. She said that right now, she did not want to be with me. I got needy (big mistake, I know) and asked her if there was a possibility in the future, and she said that she couldn't answer either way and she needed time. Since she moved out, I have not reached out to her at all. She called me two days later regarding a bill of mine that came out of her account ($100) and wanted me to bring her the money. I told her I was busy and that she would have to come by the house. She then said she didn't want to see me or see the house and started arguing, I ended the convo and she continued arguing via text, which I ignored (I shut my phone off and she thought I blocked her). Two days after that she texted me from stepson's phone saying not to block her again and that she really needed the money and if I could meet up with her later, which I agreed to (in all fairness I owed her the money). I also told her on the phone that if she is communicating respectfully that I would answer, but if she communicates to argue then I won't, and she said she understood. So we met up at starbucks and had a quick convo regarding the dog and a few other things, nothing related to us or R. I was upbeat and felt great during the convo, and she was serious/depressed looking. Since then, she has called/texted to ask me random things (regarding a job, an insurance quote, things like that). Yesterday I responded to her text from the night before, and after a few texts she made an argumentative comment, and I stopped responding. Today she called, I didn't answer, then after an hour sent a text saying "you called?" She asked if I wanted the dog back today or tomorrow, I said tomorrow and that was it.
I only respond via text and very short, to the point answers. We both need time to think and miss each other. I am working on GAL which is something I didn't have in our marriage. I really, truly want my family back and I am working on the issues that drove her away (mainly insecurities on my part). Being alone is helping me find myself and improve my self esteem. I don't feel desperate to get her back, I just feel as though I can make these changes and make our marriage and family work.
So, that is my current sitch and my question is this: How am I doing? Should I stop responding at all and go dark? I really want her to miss me to somehow spark her feelings towards me again. We separated a few years ago (for 3 months) and when I really truly stopped caring and stopped wanting to R, she came back and sparked my feelings and we worked it out. Just not sure how to proceed or how to test the waters to see what she is really feeling. Thank you for such a great community!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Lost,
I am by no means a vet in this regard in anyway, (I have currently just entered R with my W), but I must say I feel that GAL is imperative to any BD scenario, and 180 as well. By detaching and utilizing the time to find oneself and contemplate how to grow as an individual will inevitably strengthen you as a person and enable you to be better prepared for whatever life may bring. In this manner, your W may notice these changes and second guess her decision to D. Utilize the time to grow as a person and become the best you can be. I'm rooting for you, much love.
Sorry you are here, and you will find the help you need. However, you already have the key to getting her back, potentially:
e separated a few years ago (for 3 months) and when I really truly stopped caring and stopped wanting to R, she came back and sparked my feelings and we worked it out.
This is exactly what you have to do again. You are an example of how this works (other newbies please take note!). Pursuit and pressure do not work. Truly moving on has the best chance to work. So find that place again, and then wait for her to want to come back.
Whether you understand boundaries or not, it sounds like you have instituted them. Good job.
She sounds angry from your description and needs time to chill.
I think you are doing well. Still helps to read and understand what is best policy. We all slip.
All that needy bata behavior is common and should be avoided. My MC told me to research vulnerability and although important in any R it often looks like Needy Bata stuff that drives them away. Makes us feel weak and look weak.
DBing is several things. Detachment is key. Sounds like you are on the right track. You have to love someone in a way that that person feels free. Chase and they will run.
You are in a helpful place.
Thank you all for the responses. Yes, my previous situation is a great example of how detachment and truly moving on does work. I used the DB principles to make that happen and it did work. Now that I have made an account I am going to offer advice where I can to other people in similar situations.
RR17, thank you especially for your encouragement, it really helped me to read your feedback. In these last few days, her attitude towards me has changed quite a bit. I think that me ignoring her when she starts to argue has worked, as she has been nice and respectful towards me. And I have been indifferent towards her for the most part, very short text responses, keeping communication to a minimum, etc.
Last night I did slip up but I don't "think" I ruined it. Yesterday I was sick and she called me to meet up to return the dog's medicine to me. I told her I was sick and that I couldn't leave the house and she offered to come drop them off (which surprised me since her new apartment is 30 minutes away and she always complained about driving down here). So she got here and offered to take me to get some food and medicine since I was sick (again, very surprising, her normal self would have dropped the dog's medicine and left not worrying about me). So we went (since I really did need the favor lol I wasn't in a position to drive), and she got some food for herself too. Came back to the house and ate together and talked a little about jobs (mostly me giving her advice on that), the kids, etc (nothing M or R related). Kept myself confident and positive the whole time (not an act, that's truly how I feel).
Here's the slip-up (you guys can beat me up for it, I deserve it lol). When she was leaving, I felt some type of vibe from her, can't really explain it. So instead of just saying goodbye like I probably should have, I went in for a hug (which, a week ago, would have backfired 100%). She hugged me as well and it felt like the first real hug in months. You're probably thinking, that's not a bad slip-up. Well that's not all, here it goes (and I feel dumb even typing this since I know I messed up). Since I still felt the vibe, I held her hand (she didn't pull away or act offended like normally) and she looked at me and I asked her if she'd like to go out with me sometime. She asked me if I had started going to therapy yet (I told her I was going to go to therapy to help with some issues from my childhood). I told her that I went to one session and have another this week. I told her that I needed time but that I can work through my issues and I want to try to work this out. She said that she understood and agreed. Then I said let's talk about it some other time and we hugged again and she left. Then later that night sent me a text saying that she hopes I get better soon, I just responded thank you for taking me to get food and she said your welcome with a smiley face.
So I plan to just continue how I was as it appears to be working, and not bring up any more R talk unless she does. What do you all think of my slip-up? Hope I didn't ruin everything. Anyway, you all have a great day and thank you for listening
So here is the 2x4:
First:
Yes, my previous situation is a great example of how detachment and truly moving on does work. I used the DB principles to make that happen and it did work.
And then:
I held her hand (she didn't pull away or act offended like normally) and she looked at me and I asked her if she'd like to go out with me sometime.
huh? A nod to DB principles in one paragraph, and then severe pressure and pursuit in another?
Imagine if this is what would have happened:
hen she was leaving, I felt some type of vibe from her, can't really explain it. So instead of just saying goodbye like I probably should have, I went in for a hug (which, a week ago, would have backfired 100%). She hugged me as well and it felt like the first real hug in months. Then later that night sent me a text saying that she hopes I get better soon, I just responded thank you for taking me to get food and she said your welcome with a smiley face.
That would have been so much better at this point in your sitch. Likely she will retreat a bit now. Most WASs do when you exert pressure and pursuit.
Steve you are exactly right, I know that I messed up and did the opposite of the DB principles. I guess I sound like a hypocrite. When I see a positive difference with her, and feel a "vibe" (like last night), it's very hard for me not to pursue. If I analyze my actions, I know that it's me testing the waters with her. I am aware this is counter-productive and needs to stop. I do feel like this was a good lesson for me, and if there is a next time, I feel as though I will remember this and control myself better.
On the other hand, there is one possibly positive thing. Right up until she moved out there was a lot of conflict between us and a lot of ugly things said to each other (including me saying that I was happy it was over and I feel free, relieved, etc). Even though I know last night was a screw up and shouldn't have talked about it, I feel as though I got my point across last night and the ball is in her court 100%. I feel as though she now knows where I stand and what I want. Now I truly feel like I have no need to talk about R again with her unless she brings it up, so that is a relief for me.
Whatever happens, I know that I'll be okay. I'm not at the point where I was with our last separation (where I truly didn't care or want to R anymore), but I feel calm and relaxed and not depressed. Her moving out has been a lot easier on me then I thought it would be, and it's 1000x better then when we were separated and living under the same roof. I really do want to save my marriage, but I am thankful that I don't feel desperate like I did when she was still living here.
I'll keep you guys updated and I appreciate any feedback
Thank you!
Hey all, I need some advice again. Been doing some thinking and really don't understand something. She still finds a reason to call or text me every day. After the slip up and the "your welcome/smiley emoji" from my post above, she called me, and an hour later I texted "you called?" She responded right away "yes, it was to ask you how to set up the TV to work on the wifi, but I fixed it myself" which I responded "so it's good now?" and she said "yes". That was last night.
Now earlier today she texted me saying "I want to go ahead with xxx job, do you think you could help me?" (referring to filing out some paperwork and getting a deal for cleaning crew insurance). I waited an hour and responded "Ok we'll talk about it later" and right away she said "ok". Two hours ago, she sent me a picture of the battery light on her car that came on (I'm a mechanic). I waited an hour and responded "probably the alternator, shouldn't drive it", she responded right away and said "(sad emoji) we are 30 min away (her and her mom working I believe), which I said "turn off the radio and take the side streets just in case" which she said "ok". I then got to thinking and felt bad and said "If you need help you can ask me ok" which got no response so far (5 minutes ago). I regret sending that last one.
Not answering the phone and waiting to respond are huge 180's for me. She knows I always have my phone on me for work (and when we were together I always answered right away).
Why does she always find some random thing to communicate with me about every day? Sometimes I want to block her and go dark, but I don't know if that will make things worse. We haven't argued at all recently. I don't want to be too nice or too available. It's a tough balance to know what should I really help her with? How do I know if I'm being used? Next time she asks for help, do I ignore her completely?
Quick update she said "ok thank you" so i wasn't ignored but I still know I shouldn't have sent that text
Hey guys, wanted to give and update and now I really could use some good advice with my sitch. She came over today to pick up some papers (job related) and saw that our dog was acting sad. She started crying and said "this is all your fault, why couldn't you change before and we would have worked it out", then said something like "I just want to start over and move on, I can't believe I'm 31 and a single mother again etc etc, hopefully I'll find someone to treat me how I wanted you to treat me, why don't we just not talk about this anymore and you find someone also." I was able to calm her down and end the convo.
Last thing she said was that she doesn't feel anything for me other then anger and even if I bought her flowers/chocolates it doesn't mean anything. But that she really wishes she could feel something for me and wishes that we could work it out. I asked her if we would put our heads together to try to figure this out would she be willing to try and she said that she'd like to but doesn't believe that it's possible, and if she doesn't feel anything for me then she doesn't feel like she can try.
So I know she does need more cooling down time, she is still hurt and angry at me. I thought she wasn't that angry anymore since we haven't been fighting (due to the boundaries I implemented). What would be the best method to help her calm down? I guess I just need to give her time, any other ideas?
Imlost8,
You need to stop asking her relationship questions. She is clearly full of anger and resentment towards you. Nothing is going to change that instantaneously. It is going to take a really long amount of time and a great deal of space, not to mention a metric ton of patience. You need to back off. Reread Sandi's rules. Learn them by heart. When you are in doubt of what to do, go back and read them. When you feel the urge to email or text or call her, write here instead and vent. Keep your communication with her brief and casual. Don't reply to all of her messages right away, in fact only reply if the message warrants a response.
Hang in there. You are in for a long ride.
She said all that just to get you to ask her to try again. That's called "temp-checking". You got tested, and unfortunately you failed. She knows you're there, plan B, just in case she wants to come back.
Next time she does that stuff you listen and validate. Read the validation threads.
Thanks for the responses, you are both correct and I really needed to hear that. I never call or text or email her, ever. Seriously since she moved out, I have never ever, not even once initiate contact with her (total 180 for me, proud of myself for that lol). But she finds a reason to call or text me every day (which led me to believe her anger had subsided). I never answer her calls and usually wait to respond an hour minimum to any call or text.
I know she’s hurting and I understand her. But why does she find a reason to contact me every day if she’s so mad?? If she needs space to calm down, why does she contact me? I wish I had the answer to that question, what do you all think?
She wants to know that she still has you on the line. She wants to have a fall-back plan in case other things fall through.
Don't be that guy. You deserve better.
She wants to know that she still has you on the line. She wants to have a fall-back plan in case other things fall through.
Don't be that guy. You deserve better.
I agree with this, but since she knows I’m still here (since I screwed up and said what I said), now how do I proceed so she knows that I’m not?
You are not going to convince her overnight. It will take time and consistent action. You actually have to get on with your life without her and reach a point where you don't need her to come back. That is the detachment you need to reach.
So, keep DBing. Stop worrying about how she will react to your communication or lack thereof. Focus on yourself. How can you improve yourself? GAL as much as you can. This is a long process and you are still at the beginning. You slipped up, but that just means you learned what not to do next time.
...she really wishes she could feel something for me and wishes that we could work it out. I asked her if we would put our heads together to try to figure this out would she be willing to try and she said that she'd like to but doesn't believe that it's possible, and if she doesn't feel anything for me then she doesn't feel like she can try.
I got plenty of this from W. My current interpretation is that it has something to do with maintaining the image, in HER mind, that she is someone who doesn't just give up. But at the same time she can phone it in but not have to feel like a monster.
Edit: the reason for saying that is that you just basically can't make any assumptions about what it means. Most likely it means that she's a human being trying to come to terms with what she has done. She is coming to terms with it for herself, not because she wants to undo it. It's just damage control.
Thank you for the responses, I really needed to hear it. I didn't respond right away because I needed time to analyze it.
At first, I was actually thinking what she said was a good thing. After reading your responses, it helped me to wake up and realize that I need to detach, and these last 2 days I have been doing that. My goal is to get to the point where I truly don't need her anymore. She still texts/calls each day for some random thing, but I wait 8-10 hours to respond and just use very short texts, and I never call. I feel like now I can get to the point that I really don't care about her anymore, and that is my goal. Afterwards if she comes forward and wants to try, great, I'll see how I feel about it then. But I realize she isn't coming back any time soon. Thank you all for the advice and strength to keep me moving forward
Hi guys, back again with an update on my sitch. She came over today for me to help her make a contract for a cleaning job she got (I am in the business as well so I have some pre-made contracts). Anyway, when she got here she was dressed up (surprising), she could tell I was impressed even though I tried to play it off. I complimented the dress and that was it. She asked if I had eaten, I said "No not yet, I'll help you with the contract and then I'm going to go eat". She said "I want to take you somewhere, you'll like it", and I said sure. So she drove me to this rooftop bar/restaurant. We get there, watch the sunset, and chit chat. I was totally not expecting any of this so I'm in shock, but I know I played it off well, I kept my cool.
We chit-chat for a little while (about work, kids, etc) and she brings up "us". Says that she feels sad that we are apart since we have had so many nice moments together ("like this one" she says, referring to us at the rooftop bar enjoying the sunset), but at the same time she feels relaxed that we aren't fighting like we used to when we were together. I just responded "yes I agree, we have had nice moments together". She said that she misses it but that she's afraid to go back to the same problems. I responded "I agree and I don't either, I couldn't imagine that life again" (which is true). I also said that I am still going to therapy and that I am happy being alone and learning to be alone. She held my hand and things just felt different, I leaned in and kissed her (which would have never happened since BD, trust me). I told her that whatever happens is fine with me, and that if we ever were going to try again that things wouldn't be the same, we have to do it different. She said she just needs to think about it.
We get back to my house, make the contract, and she's sitting on the bed (my computer and printer are in my room) I then sit on the bed next to her, and lean in again to give her a kiss. One thing led to another and we had sex (again, hasn't happened since before BD, 4 months). I've known her for a very long time, and I can honestly say, if her heart isn't in it, she won't have sex with me. I know many of you will disagree, but it's just something I know about her.
Afterwards, we laid there for a little while and then she said that she had to go (it was getting late and we both work tomorrow). I did get a little needy (not too bad like before) and I said "I hope you think about what we talked about, I feel as though we can work it out, we just need to take it slow". She said that she promises she is going to think about it (first time hearing something like that since BD). I walked her to her car, and said "be careful driving, I love you" and she responded "I love you too". She could sense that I was shocked and she said "Yes, I still love you, I'll talk to you tomorrow, goodnight".
That was it, completely unexpected. I never expected any of this to happen at all. I feel as though I played it cool and confident and it went well. At the moment (she literally left 30 minutes ago), I feel as though whatever happens I will be fine, and I truly don't expect anything to happen. I don't have my hopes up. I plan to keep being detached and GAL. Obviously I'd like to R but don't expect it at this point. Just in shock about what happened tonight since I didn't expect it. Will see how it plays out and I will keep you all updated!
Okay be I like that you plan to be careful. Attaching significance to it would be imprudent. If you read my sitch you'll see that my WW got very horny. But even after we would have sex after BD, some of the best we had in 19 years of a SSM by the way, she would still insist we were done and she wanted out. Admittedly, we did have a period of lots of sex just as we started to move into piecing, but that was different.
Likely she was horny and you were her best option. Can't remember if there was an A in your sitch or not but just proceed with caution and keep GAL and detaching as you say.
Oh and enjoy it! Lol lots of other posters would love for this to happen.
She said that she misses it but that she's afraid to go back to the same problems. I responded "I agree and I don't either, I couldn't imagine that life again" (which is true). I also said that I am still going to therapy and that I am happy being alone and learning to be alone.
That is perfect!!!
...and I said "I hope you think about what we talked about, I feel as though we can work it out, we just need to take it slow".
You've got to be kidding me! What happened to "I am happy being alone and learning to be alone"? Suddenly you're having sex and pressuring her with R talk again. STOP THE PRESSURE!!!!!
I agree with AS, although I understand why you did it. She just shows up to take you out, tells you she loves you, and then you guys get down and dirty. Most people would be like woohoo we're back baby, yea!!!!
She may be getting closer, so keep doing what works.
I agree with AS, although I understand why you did it. She just shows up to take you out, tells you she loves you, and then you guys get down and dirty. Most people would be like woohoo we're back baby, yea!!!!
OK now that made me laugh out loud
Having sex is OK, Michele even says that in DR. As long as it's not hurting you and you don't have any expectations. Of course that latter is the hard part!
Hello everyone, I know I haven't updated in a little over a month so I'd like to share what has happened and also ask for some advice. After the "date" I last shared, things dropped off very quickly. I felt her retreating so I did the same and there wasn't much contact at all. After the date, I really did get my hopes up and then I felt like I lost her AGAIN, which was very hard on me. We did get into a big fight about 3 weeks ago, and she told me that she never wants to hear from me or see me ever again. That day I realized that no contact was my only hope to detach myself from this roller coaster to avoid more pain, and I began to truly accept that it was over. So I did successfully complete no contact for a few weeks, and I feel much calmer and detached from the situation. She called me from her sister's phone the other day to ask me some random car questions (because she knows I wouldn't answer her number). I used validating statements and acted like I was talking to a customer or somebody I don't really know (but I was upbeat, no personal talk).
She asked if I could meet up the next day because "she hadn't seen me for a while". I told her that I couldn't that day but the day after I could for a few minutes to grab coffee. When I arrived at starbucks, she said instead of coffee I'll take you to TGI fridays for your birthday (which was 2 days earlier). I told her thank you but I didn't have time. So we had our coffee and that was it, no personal R talk or anything like that. She asked me how I was, said I looked good and happy, and I said yes I'm doing well, and you? She said that she feels depressed, sad, doesn't eat much, and very stressed out. I noticed she had lost weight and looked bad in general (she's very thin as it is so her appearance worried me). I told her to take care, try to eat more. Then some small talk. She texted me a few times for random things and I'd respond the next day or not at all, etc. We were supposed to meet up last night for me to give her some mail (I offered to give it to her sister but she "wants to see me", I told her I couldn't meet last night but possibly tonight I can).
Last night, her father calls me. I haven't talked to him since before BD (he lives out of state and honestly we were never very close). He said he heard last month that we aren't together and that my ex just got off the phone with him after talking for a few hours. He told me that my ex said that she "wants to R but that she feels as though it's too late since she can tell that I've moved on." He said that "she is willing to sit down with me and talk about what each of us needs to happen for this to work". But then she started crying and said "that it's too late, and she's afraid to approach me since she knows that I've moved on".
As long as I've known him, he's an honest, serious man who never before has tried to give me relationship advice or even talk about our relationship. He said that he wouldn't have called me but in his heart he feels as though I need to know what his daughter is feeling and if I want to work this out, if I let my guard down a little, she will do the rest. He told me not to tell her that he called. I told him exactly this "I know that you're not lying to me, but I don't get that vibe from her at all. We got into a big fight and she told me that she doesn't want to see or hear from me again and I've been respecting that. She tries to get in touch with me but never talks about us. If she wants to work it out so bad, why doesn't she give me a clue?" and he said "You know my daughter is way too proud and her pride gets in the way. She's afraid to reach out and get shot down. You need to trust what I am saying, she literally told me all of this about 10 minutes ago. If you don't want to work it out, I respect that and I will never bother you with this talk again. But if you do want to work it out, then take my advice and let your guard down". I told him that I'd be open to talking with her about it but that right now I can't really say if I want to get back with her.
So, I need some advice guys: First, let me say that I really do want to work things out with her, I just don't want to get hurt again, so I know I need to stay detached (which, this time, I feel that I am ready for. I feel much stronger now then a month ago). Tonight we are supposed to meet up at starbucks. Do I keep things "detached" like I planned to before the phone call with her dad? Or do I let my guard down just a little to see how she responds? Thanks for listening guys, even though I haven't updated in a month I've been reading the threads and everyone's advice is so much help.
Before you meet her again, please read the distance-pursuit thread again. Your WAS shows classic distance-pursuit theory behavior.
Let me ask you a couple of questions.
1) When you first got together how did that go? Were you the pursuer? Was she? How does her behavior now compare to her behavior then? Did you know without a doubt that she was interested when you first met?
2) I understand not wanting to get hurt again. If you look back up at AS's last post you'll see he tried to caution you on the pursuit and pressure. So what is more important to you? To protect yourself from more pain, or Ring with your W? I think this is the dilemma you are in, and the answer to that question will inform a lot of your next steps.
Couple of other things. Her dad likely will eventually tell her about your conversation. I know he asked you not to say anything, but the next time they have a heart-to-heart he will probably talk to her about what you said, especially the part about her telling you not to contact her anymore and you respecting that.
Second, you need to really proceed with caution here, and that is the point of you reading the pursuit-distance thread again. Too much pressure and pursuit could send her running the other direction again, just like a month ago. I'll give you more advice after you answer the questions I've posed.
Thank you for the reply Steve. I will read the pursuit thread on my lunch break. To answer your questions:
1. When we first got together, she was the pursuer. She’d text and contact me all the time for random things to get my attention and that’s how we started talking honestly. She’d send me good morning and good night texts almost every day. I didn’t pursue her at all. I’d say her behavior is similar now, but much less frequent, and minus the daily good morning and goodnight texts.
2.Excellent question. I am willing to risk the pain again if it means a chance to work it out. I know without a doubt that at I can not pursue at all. I need to sit back and let her come to me. I really feel as though I can do it without pursuing at all. I know that I blew it a month ago. I just wasn’t ready.
If it wasn’t for the phone call with her dad, I wouldn’t have even thought about R. In my mind it was over. I just hope that this isn’t false hope or a lie or something. I was thinking about canceling tonight and rescheduling for tomorrow just to see how she takes it. I’m not playing games or manipulating, I’d call it studying her and seeing if it’s worth the risk to try again...I just want to know if she’s real or not!
Okay thanks for the answers.
My suggestion is you let her continue to pursue (sounds like you are). I understand your concern about her being real. I don't think you have to reschedule to test that. I think, as when you both first got together, she will let you know in no uncertain terms if she is real or not. I would just work on you. Continue to GAL. Continue to be detached (NO EXPECTATIONS!), continue to 180. And be the spouse only a fool would leave.
On the issue of pain. The reason I asked is that nothing worthwhile is without pain. If your goal is pain avoidance, then pull the plug and move on. If your goal is R with your W, then be open to the pain that might come along with that.
As someone that has been in R for nearly 8 months, trust me, it isn't easy. If you are looking for easy you will be disappointed.
But keep up the good work, let her come to you.
I just reread the pursuit thread and wow thank you so much for recommending that, I really needed to read it again.
Take a minute and think about this another way. When you detach and distance yourself from your spouse, notice how they start coming around, being nice, etc.? Well, he/she feels that you are not pursuing them. They want the chase, they want you to pursue them so that they can come back and slam dunk you all over again. It's a dance of madness. They may not even be aware of what they are doing, but once you snap up the niceness all over again, they will most definitely come back w/anger to distance themselves from you again for their safety and security. Does this sound familiar to you?
This paragraph is so true, it describes what happened to me a month ago. I definitely feel more prepared now after reading that.
Hello imlost8,
You're definitely seeing the benefits of "no contact" and going dark as you've taken pressure off your W and allowed her to process her feelings and be willing to come around again -- that's great! That's a successful step in DB.
After the "date" I last shared, things dropped off very quickly. I felt her retreating so I did the same and there wasn't much contact at all.
This is *very* common, a WAS will have a wistful moment, or a sad day, and run back to the LBS for comfort. Then, the feelings they were originally trying to get away from will eventually come back up and they run again. These are called "touch and go" events and there will often be several of them. Your job during these events is to be consistent with your emotions, neither excited that they are happening, nor sad that they have passed. My exW did this several times, we'd go to dinner with friends and she'd hold my hand in the car and be very touchy, and for the next week wouldn't make any eye contact, its a normal pattern.
We did get into a big fight about 3 weeks ago, and she told me that she never wants to hear from me or see me ever again.
What was that about? What happened? Tell us more about that incident. Your W referenced on your date that the fighting was the thing she was afraid of returning to, so that's the number one thing you have to 180 is not getting pulled into fights. Tell us more about your historic fighting dynamic. How do they start, how do they escalate, how long do they last and how do they end? (That's four questions for you to answer)
Individual fights in the past aren't that important, but the pattern is crucial. Is there a consistent theme that would trigger these fights? Figuring out how to break this cycle is the key to getting to have a new and different relationship with her.
wants to R but that she feels as though it's too late since she can tell that I've moved on.
Be careful, when you're hungry you want to eat, and when you're really hungry you really want to eat, but after that feeling passes you don't think about food at all. What's going on in her life right now that's making her feel this way? Is she running away from something else, or is she earnestly running to you?
It sounds like she's feeling bad about herself and sees getting back into the relationship as a possible cure for that. If she feels bad about herself, your relationship isn't going to fix that, and when she's back with you and still feeling bad, she's going to leave again.
Really I think that both of you have individual work to do before you should give it another go -- are you in weekly individual therapy? Is she? If I were you, I would suggest that be the next move for both of you. I would tell her you haven't moved on, but you're not interested in moving back either. If you're going to go forward together, things are going to need to be different, and you both need help to get into a position to make things better. I'd suggest you both pursue IC with separate therapists and agree to some schedule to see each other to check in.
At this crucial point I also really suggest doing a telephone session with a DB coach on this site. Its the best money you'll ever spend. They can have a much more detailed dialog with you and give you much better and specific advice.
Acc
Acc, thank you for the great response. I understand what you are saying about the touch and go moments and that makes perfect sense, that is what happened on our date a month ago. I now feel better prepared to handle those moments. The big fight was regarding me not being able to see the stepkids anymore (which yesterday I asked her if I could see them since my stepson told me he wanted to see me, and she said yes that's fine - which was a huge surprise for me). I feel as though the fighting was/is caused by resentment on both ends, which turns any small thing into a fight. Since I've accepted that we are never getting back together (and gotten over the depression honestly I've been feeling fine), I don't feel any resentment towards her anymore. It's like the slate has been wiped clean. I don't know if its the same for her or not. I am in a therapy program one night per week. Her dad told me that she is also in a weekly therapy program.
I still haven't met up with her. The night that we were going to meet up I had to stay at work late, and the last two nights she has worked. But she's been texting me every day for random things and joking, almost flirting. I'm not pursuing at all.
Her dad called me again last night to ask how things are going. I told him that I haven't seen her since our first call. He said that he talked to her again yesterday and that she says how she really took me for granted and now she realizes what she had with me and wants to change and have a new, better relationship with me. I told him that she hasn't mentioned wanting to talk to me about this. He said that I need to take the risk and talk to her and to trust him that she will respond, I just need to start the talk since she is too proud and afraid of rejection. He is coming to visit this weekend and wants to see me so we can "work this out". Not too sure how I feel about that.
So, on one hand I have all of the DB principles which say no pursuit, and on the other hand, my father inlaw basically telling me to pursue (by starting this R conversation). I am obviously leaning towards the DB principles and I'm honestly afraid to pursue as I know it will backfire. It's just hard since someone I trust is telling me to do the opposite. What do you all think?
I think you should leave the in-laws completely out of it. They don't know your sitch, only what W has told them. She may be saving face, just venting to him. Who knows? I would just tell him while you appreciate his concern, it's a private matter.
Did your W do the grade school, tell someone to tell you what she wants? Seriously?
I'd talk to the W about it, but really go slow and tell her that her father called you and said a few things, ask her what she told him? And if she says "I want this to be a great marriage" don't just jump up and go crazy and dip her for an intense kiss...(hahaha). You should even be expecting anything positive at all.
Oh really? Well what about this:
Her dad called me again last night to ask how things are going. I told him that I haven't seen her since our first call.
^^^That response is pursuit! You are trying to initiate an R convo with her dad, something Michele calls "rallying the troops against her". Don't do that!! If you talk to your inlaws the ONLY thing you should be talking about is all of your awesome, amazing, inspiring GAL activities. Because then they will talk to her and say "wow, lost is doing X, Y and Z and it sounds like he's really enjoying his time without you." THAT is what you want getting back to her.
He said that he talked to her again yesterday and that she says how she really took me for granted and now she realizes what she had with me and wants to change and have a new, better relationship with me.
Your response- "Oh, well if she ever approaches me about recon then I will have to decide what to do about it I suppose. But anyway, did I tell you I set a new PR in the bench press yesterday? Then I went ziplining with some friends, have you ever tried that? It was so much fun!"
He said that I need to take the risk and talk to her and to trust him that she will respond, I just need to start the talk since she is too proud and afraid of rejection.
Nope he's wrong. You open that talk and I guarantee it will tell her you are still firmly in place as Plan B and that's where you will stay.
He is coming to visit this weekend and wants to see me so we can "work this out". Not too sure how I feel about that.
NO!!!!!! Look, the only side of this that needs to be worked out is HERS. Nothing you do will speed it up. The BEST you can do is NOTHING. Keep giving her time and space and make yourself the spouse only a fool would leave.
So, on one hand I have all of the DB principles which say no pursuit, and on the other hand, my father inlaw basically telling me to pursue (by starting this R conversation). I am obviously leaning towards the DB principles and I'm honestly afraid to pursue as I know it will backfire. It's just hard since someone I trust is telling me to do the opposite. What do you all think?
I think your instincts are correct, it WILL backfire. It will set you back months.
You guys really opened my eyes. I honestly didn't realize that was pursuit but now I see it plain as day. I've been thinking quite a bit today, and I have made a choice to continue as I was before the first phone call with my father in law. I am not going to meet up with her at this time, I'm just going to keep GAL as I was before all of this. I feel as though if I meet up now, it'll show that I'm still there as plan B, it just feels too soon.
I may meet up with my father inlaw by himself to say hi out of respect, but if he begins this talk again I will do what Grace said and just tell him its a private matter.
AS, I agree with every point that you made. I feel like I now understand (and follow) the distance/pursuit rules with her, but I didn't realize that I needed to apply them when talking to other people (I know, I know, it's pretty obvious). I will definitively keep that in mind from now on. And like I said, there is no way I am initiating ANYTHING with her, not a phone call or text, and much less an R convo.
I am worried about one thing. Since he is coming this weekend to visit her, I am certain that he will be pressuring her about this whole situation (I just know how he is). It's almost as if I am the one pressuring her in a way, isn't it? Because of my past pursuit behaviors, I feel as though she will see it the same way and set me back months, even though it isn't coming from me this time.
When I mentioned to him that I am seeing a therapist, he immediately asked if she knows that I am seeing one (yes). But he kept repeating how good that I'm seeing a therapist etc. I feel as though he will start pressuring her by saying "Look, he's seeing a therapist, you need to give him another chance", etc. Like I said before, I just know how he is. I guess we'll see what happens...
I made this mistake early on. I am close to my MIL and my SIL. When BD hit I had no-one else to turn to. MIL gave well meaning but ultimately harmful advice ... she said I should start snooping for OW (there wasn't one) and do things to make him jealous. SIL offered me a kind ear and hugs. Then both told H everything I said in the hopes that he would see how much damage he was doing (it backfired - he accused me of sharing our dirty laundry with his mum and sister).
Ultimately, they unknowingly pressured him to make a decision. They told him I was broken and he needed to either man up or move out. He moved out. MIL is now putting pressure on him to either tell me we are definitely done, or to come home. I wish she'd stop.
I am worried about one thing. Since he is coming this weekend to visit her, I am certain that he will be pressuring her about this whole situation (I just know how he is). It's almost as if I am the one pressuring her in a way, isn't it? Because of my past pursuit behaviors, I feel as though she will see it the same way and set me back months, even though it isn't coming from me this time.
I can't really give advice on this other than what's been said above. He will do what he will do. She will put up a wall and not listen.
If he brings it up with you again, I would say "Listen, appreciate your concern, but really W just needs space to work things out" and then quickly move on to other topics (GAL activities, work, weather). Remain upbeat - detach and 180 with them as well. FIL will get the message.
My MIL is coming over shortly. I am now going to try and heed my own advice
Hello all, wanted to give an update on my sitch. Nothing happened involving me over the weekend while FIL was here in town. Late last night, she calls me, I didn't answer. I returned her call today when I got done work, and she said she called to ask me a question but she couldn't remember what it was. Then she said "We (her and the stepkids) are at the mall by your house if you want to see the kids" and I said "Let me call you right back", when I called her back she asked if I had eaten dinner, I said no. She said she'd treat me to dinner if I wanted to go to Olive Garden with them, I agreed.
Had a great time at the restaurant, I hadn't seen the kids in over a month, so me and the kids talked and joked, had an awesome time. Really was so nice to see them. I didn't make much convo with her at all, she kind of butted into to our convos (before I'd always be very talkative to her, I know that she noticed the difference, but truthfully I really went to see the kids, not so much her). I was not rude though, I was very upbeat, happy, and joking. When the check came, she stuck out her card but I told her I'd pay this time. After dinner I hugged/kissed the kids and I noticed she leaned for a hug but I stuck my hand out for a handshake instead.
30 minutes after I get home, she sends me these 2 texts: "Thank you for dinner, the kids and I had a great time", then 2 minutes later "It's been a long time since I've felt happy, and tonight I do. I saw how happy the kids were too". Don't really know what to say honestly. Old me would have said (and she knows it, she knows me so well, I'm sure she thought that her text would provoke this response from me): "same here, It's been a while since I've felt that way too, hopefully we can do it again soon" or something along those lines. New me knows that is not going to get me anywhere.
How am I supposed to respond to that (if at all)? I expected something like the first text, but really didn't expect the second one. Thank you all, I'm learning as I go and trying not to screw things up further.
Sounds like you had a good time. I would just reply „you are welcome“ and maybe: It was good to see the kids.
Just send her the thumbs up emoji
I would go with "thanks, have a good night!"
I said "You're welcome, I'm glad everyone had a good time" and she responded with a few smiley face emojis. Then that same night about 10 minutes later she texted me talking about how she is worried about some bloodwork she had done and that the doctor called her saying that she needs to come in for an appt. She sent probably 10 texts in a 30 minute period, after a little while I responded saying "I'm sure everything will be fine" and she said "thank you (smiley face).
Then yesterday morning again texted me saying "Good morning, I was researching and it said that if I ever want to have another child I won't be able to" (regarding her medical condition) "I just can't stop thinking about it" and I said "It doesn't help you to think about it, just try to get your mind off of it". Then she said "Yes you're right, thank you (smiley face)". Then a few hours later she calls me, didn't answer. Texted "you called?" she responded "Yes, I wanted to know when you could change the oil on my car". I told her "I don't know when I'll be able too I'm pretty busy after work" and she said "Maybe I'll just take it somewhere else" and I said "ok". Then she responded "I'm just joking, let me know what day you can and how much you'll charge". (I didn't respond) Then two hours later she said "Do you want to get coffee?" (Remember we just had dinner the night before). I said "No I can't tonight, maybe some other time". She said "Ok (sad face emoji)". Then a few hours later said "Have a good night" (I didn't see that text till this morning so I didn't respond).
I feel like she's done a total 180 and is pursuing me almost non-stop. I just don't know what she wants? She hasn't mentioned anything about R or wanting to "talk". I really feel like she's testing me or possibly does miss me. What do you all think? And what should my next step be? From my understanding of the DB principles, I just need to keep doing what I'm doing. My only question is, how many invitations do I accept? For example, I accepted monday, yesterday (tuesday) I did not. Do I accept her next invitation? Thank you all for the great advice and listening to my sitch.
I think what you are doing is correct but I guess you should accept some of the invitations but also turn some down. Need to strike a balance I guess as if you accept them all it looks needy but turn them down she may give up completely. Don't know what her pursuing means though but would have no expectations as people advise.
Yes, that’s the thing, finding the balance. I really don’t want to look needy but at the same time I don’t want her to give up. I’m just confused as to why she is pursuing me since usually she’s too proud to do that...
Sounds to me like you are striking the right balance. You’re friendly but not overly enthusiastic. I you think about her as your “sister”, you responded just the way a brother would have. You were supportive when she asked for support but you didn’t make her your #1 priority by giving up other plans to spend time with her. I think you handled all those texts perfectly. Just like Crofton said though.... no expectations. I have figured out with my H (hopefully not too late) that too much enthusiasm on my part, even if he initiates, sends him running again. Be the lighthouse.
imlost8....I find myself in a similar sitch. W has gone out of her way to spend more/request more time with me. We are still under the same roof but I have been much more accepting of time together. My key to being ok with this is truly not having expectations...as soon as I do I start the vicious cycle and will not go down that road again. I have kept some honest GAL activities and done similar with communication as you have and that has allowed me to keep the focus on me and kids being happy.
I'll admit it is a good feeling to have her pursue me again, but it is also a better feeling to not be afraid and know I will be alright if she stops. Hang in there, it looks like things are trending in the right direction.
imlost8, it sounds like your W is learning to miss you and that is a very good sign. You've gotten some great advice here but just to reinforce what others have told you- tread carefully, have ZERO expectations, and keep your W at arm's length. Accept some invitations and decline others. When she calls or texts, sometimes reply right away, sometimes an hour or two later and sometimes not at all (if it's nothing critical). Don't be immediately available to her all the time. DO NOT break into pursuit mode, many LBS's before you have done just that when their W started showing some positive signs and it just sends the WAS running again. Let her do all the pursuit. Keep up your GAL'ing and detaching. Good luck and keep us posted!
I completely agree with all of your advice and I can see that it is working. As DejaVu said, I talk to her like a sister and not my #1 priority. I know that she notices it as she used to be my #1 priority. I know for a fact if I begin pursuit or show enthusiasm that she will go running. Wanted to give an update on my sitch (while it's still fresh in my mind), as she came over tonight (she wanted me to go for coffee but I didn't feel like going out so I asked her if she wanted to come to my house instead and she said yes). First, we were watching TV and eating, not saying much (just commenting on the show), like two friends would. After the show ended, I started cleaning up (kind of me giving her cue to leave) and she said she wanted to talk.
So, the talk began. She said that she has done a lot of thinking and realizes that she needs help. That a lot of her past issues caused her to be a certain way in the marriage, and that before she blamed me for everything, but now she realizes the fault was 50/50, and that she is going to a therapist as well. I told her that I was happy that she was getting help and that I really do believe it will benefit her, as going to a therapist benefits me. We talked about a lot of things but I'll just tell you all the important things. She told me that she still loves me, that she misses me, that she worries about me, but that there are things that would need to change if we were going to get back together. I told her "I still love you, but I don't feel like I am in love with you (I know, the famous line, but I was afraid to tell her that I am still in love with her, isn't that pursuit?) I want to be in love with you. But, I could never go back to our old relationship. I am much better off alone then being in our marriage the way that we were. I am not saying that I could never go back to you, I am saying that I can't go back to our old relationship. If we are going to try to work this out, we need to take it slow and really ask ourselves if we are capable of changing". She said that she feels exactly the same way. I said "We both need to take time and really think about what changes we need from the other person. I'll make a list of what I would really need you to change, and I want you to make a list of what you need me to change. Then we need to both analyze each others list and ask ourselves truthfully, can we make these changes? Are we capable of making these changes?" She said that that's a great idea and she will do it. We agreed to go out from time to time, almost as friends with no commitment or getting hopes up. She said "I'll call/text you when I want to talk to you and I'll invite you out when I want to see you, and I hope you do the same to me"
I just really want to take it slow to protect myself from getting my hopes up and getting hurt. My plan is to keep doing as I am doing, no pursuit or enthusiasm from my part. I don't know if I screwed up in the talk but I feel as though it went ok. I'm ready to hear any and all criticism and advice. How do I proceed from here? Do I ask her out sometimes? My instinct is telling me not to, and I don't plan to. I really have no expectations, and even if she never talks to me again I'll be fine. So I feel as though I am in a good position either way, but truthfully I would love to R. Thank you all!
I think it sounds like you did really well IL8. She initiated the talk. You were honest and kept the door open. You did not jump at the idea of getting back together. You came up with a great plan. Make your list. Wait for her to approach you again to look at it. When you make your list, make sure it is focused on what you want her to DO differently. Be specific if you can. Let her make the first move. I don’t think you should never ask her out. She needs to know that you, too, will make an effort. But let the effort be mostly hers in the beginning. Proceed slowly. This is a great first step. Happy for you!!!
^^^ Thank you DV for typing out exactly what I was going to
^^^
AS...does this mean I might possibly be starting to get it?!? I sure hope so. :-D
Hello all, back with an update on my sitch. We have been talking everyday, we spent last weekend together as a family, and last night she invited me to her apartment for dinner (I had no idea where she lived so that was a big step for her). We talked last night and she said that she has been feeling much better since we have been in contact these last two weeks. She said that we need to take things slow because she’s afraid to be in the same sitch that we were in before, I agreed. I asked her what she felt towards me. She said she loves me and she’s happy to be around me and talk to me. She said she is physically attracted to me still. She says there are things she loves about me but also there are things she can’t stand (things that I am working on changing and demonstrating with 180s which are working so far). But she says she needs to feel a “spark” (aka fall back IN love with me). She asked me if we could go out of state for a weekend (just the two of us) to reconnect. I bought her roses which she loved. Last night after our R talk I listened to some problems she is having, and I gave her some advice (she had a bad day, completely unrelated to me). We kissed, watched tv, she laid in my lap then I laid in hers, I made the mistake of trying to escalate to sex and it made her uncomfortable, I apologized then everything seemed fine, we continued snuggling and watching tv. When I left, she gave me a kiss on the lips. Today we texted and she asked me to consider the weekend trip because she really wants to go.
This is where I’m stuck and need advice. How should I proceed to ignite her spark? I feel like I have a chance to R with her but I am afraid of screwing up. Also I don’t want to turn into the friend who makes her feel better. I just need her to fall IN love with me again.... Thank you all for the support and advice!
Wow!! That’s really good progress. I think you should stay the course. Maybe put off the weekend for a little bit? Keep dating but don’t jump into anything right away. Keep up with your 180s. Igniting her spark is not a physical thing... it is an emotional, connection thing. Keep working on that. I would say play hard to get but that sounds kind of manipulative so my advice would be to go slow. Too much enthusiasm on your part could start to feel like pressure. Best of luck IL8!!! So happy for you...and a little bit jealous. Would love to be in your position right now. Gives me hope though. Thank-you for that.
Thank you for the reply DejaVu. It's been really hard for me not to be over enthusiastic or start to pursue. I find myself thinking about her and us way too much, and fighting the urge to text her. Some mornings she texts me good morning, some mornings I text her. I'd say recently she initiates 70% contact and I initiate 30%, will try to tone that down to 80/20. I just need to remember to stick to not pursuing and not being so available. I don't know if buying flowers and being romantic like that are too much at this point. This is uncharted territory for me!
Igniting her spark is not a physical thing... it is an emotional, connection thing. Keep working on that. I would say play hard to get but that sounds kind of manipulative so my advice would be to go slow.
Thank you so much for that, I need to remember that it isn't a physical thing. Last night I messed up by trying to initiate sex. The rejection made me feel somewhat insecure about this whole thing, it made me feel as though I'm possibly being friend-zoned. I've made it clear to her that I don't want to be just friends and she knows that. She told me last night that she wouldn't play with my emotions, and that she is letting me back into her life because she feels as though there is a chance to R. Just need to remember that when I feel insecure.
So happy for you...and a little bit jealous. Would love to be in your position right now. Gives me hope though. Thank-you for that.
This might sound harsh, but the ONLY thing that turned my sitch around so far is truly giving up hope of R. In my heart, I truly believed that there was no chance of R. I grieved quite a bit, but I accepted it and started moving on. Somehow she took notice. I feel as though you can fake it to an extent, but in my case I think she saw through that. When I truly accepted that it was over, it drew her towards me. It put me in a position that whatever happens, I know that I'll be ok because I've already accepted the worse possible outcome. I will read your thread now and share any advice that I have
Hello all, wanted to give a quick update on my sitch. I’m at work and feeling pretty bad honestly. Since my last update, we have been seeing each other more and I felt as though things were improving quite a bit, no fights or issues. A few weeks ago, she said she was going to go to a AA therapy retreat for the weekend, and when she got back we’d see how we both felt. On Friday (3 days ago) before she left for the retreat, she stopped at my house to say goodbye and we talked. She said she was taking the R seriously and wanted us to really work on it when she got back. She got back last night. This morning she texted me to call her saying she wanted to tell me something. So I called her, long story short she said the retreat made her realize her errors in our marriage and apologized. Then she said that she can’t get back with me. That she needs time by herself to work on herself as a person etc etc. I think it’s time to let this go...I don’t see how it could play out any other way. What do you all think? Thank you
So between Friday and Monday she had a total change of heart and totally reversed course. What does that tell you?
What it should tell you is "believe nothing she says and only half of what she does"
It's very likely that after a few days of introspection she'll come back and want to try again.
You can't plot your course here by reacting to what she says, particularly if she's all over the place. Decide what YOU want to do, then do it and stick with it. If you want to stand and wait for her to come around, then do it. If you want to move on, then do it, but stick to your choices regardless of what she says. What she says is irrelevant because it could change in the next 10 minutes as this episode has clearly proven.
She went to an AA retreat, realized what her own contribution to the breakdown of the marriage was, apologized for it and told you she needs to work on herself. That's all very positive. If she's got issues she hasn't dealt with, those are forever going to plague your relationship. If she's now willing to deal with them and *do the work necessary*, that's a great thing. Give her the space to do it.
Don't take what she says now as slamming the door forever on your future, that can change in an instant.
Acc
Flipping and flopping, AKA inconsistency, is the hallmark of a WAS. I'd be happy to hear she is trying to get her mind right.
Thank you for the reply. I wanted to give a few more details and after reading this I would appreciate it if you could let me know if your advice still applies (I hope so!)
On Friday before her retreat, she did mention that she’d “see how she felt” after the retreat, and for me to do the same. I agreed.
This morning when we talked on the phone she said (basically word for word): “i need to be alone (single) for a long time, to concentrate on my kids and my goals. I need to be single and not worry about any relationship or thinking that someone is waiting for me. This weekend I realized that I’ve been bad for all of these years”
This to me doesn’t sound like she wants to take time to work on her issues and come back. But would you say your advice still applies? I do know that things could change in an instant and I feel as though right now she believes that this is the right choice but once she starts missing me she might come around.
This to me doesn’t sound like she wants to take time to work on her issues and come back. But would you say your advice still applies?
Yes the advice still applies. In fact the advice I gave you a month ago still applies, and frankly I think if you had followed it she wouldn't feel the need to push you away right now:
imlost8, it sounds like your W is learning to miss you and that is a very good sign. You've gotten some great advice here but just to reinforce what others have told you- tread carefully, have ZERO expectations, and keep your W at arm's length. Accept some invitations and decline others. When she calls or texts, sometimes reply right away, sometimes an hour or two later and sometimes not at all (if it's nothing critical). Don't be immediately available to her all the time. DO NOT break into pursuit mode, many LBS's before you have done just that when their W started showing some positive signs and it just sends the WAS running again. Let her do all the pursuit. Keep up your GAL'ing and detaching. Good luck and keep us posted!
Your W is still confused and doesn't know what she wants. It's a mistake to treat your sitch like a recon when she is still one foot (or maybe both feet) out the door. She's got to learn to miss you and she hasn't, you are far too available to her. Detach. GAL. Give her time and space.
My WW flipped-flopped from wanting to leave to wanting to stay and back about three dozen times between BD and finally Ring. They are cuckoo for cocoa puffs. You can't react positively to the positive and negatively to the negative. DBing is about being even no matter what crazy they are throwing at you.
You are a rock. The rock doesn't move. The wind and the waves blow and crash all around, but you are unmovable.
Also, what others have said. Why the heck at this point do you put any stock into anything that comes out of her piehole?!?
This to me doesn’t sound like she wants to take time to work on her issues and come back. But would you say your advice still applies? I do know that things could change in an instant and I feel as though right now she believes that this is the right choice but once she starts missing me she might come around.
Totally agree with AS and Steve85 -- the advice stands. Once again you're trying to read into what she said word for word, and as we've established you shouldn't believe what she says.
You're treating what she says as some kind of "final pronouncement" to stand now and forever, when she has just *proven to you* that she can do a complete about face over the course of a weekend. Nothing she says is a final pronouncement, nothing she says is now and forever. If you treat it that way you make everything worse for both of you.
Acc
Thank you all for the advice and support, it really means a lot to me and helps me so much.
AS, for the most part,I’ve been following that exact advice you gave me a month ago. As far as not accepting all invitations, etc. I believe that is what has gotten me this far, it definitely works. But now when I think about it, when she brings up R talk, I am too available and she caught on. This is what has gotten me in trouble.
For me it’s hard not to believe her. Maybe I do it subconsciously to protect myself? But when she told me that I really did loose all hope. I know I shouldn’t listen to what she says. After she told me all of that, I said “ok that’s all I needed to know” then she went back to apologizing for her mistakes and I interrupted her and said I had to go. Right after that She sent me a text saying she understood why I felt bad and that she was sorry. I didn’t respond, and no communication from her all day. I probably could have handled that better. I didn’t beg or plead or act needy but she could tell I wasn’t thrilled.
I don’t know if there is coming back from these mistakes. I am not going to reach out to her in any way. If she contacts me I don’t plan to respond for a day or so (honestly don’t feel like talking to her at all right now) Any other advice or tips? Thank you all again
Hello all, wanted to give another update on my sitch. This morning I talked to my sister in law (I work with her husband so I go to their house every morning and from there we go to work). She asked me if I had talked to W since she came back. I said yes and told her what W said. SIL said that W told her that I didn’t care about what she had to say and that I didn’t understand and that I cut her off. Then SIL told me what really happened. That they found her to be an alcoholic and gave her a set of rules to follow.
She used to go out/party/drink which is why we broke up. They told her that she can’t drink, go out, have any contact with her party friends, and that she needs to go to meetings 4 times a week. And no sex for one year. They told her that it was due to her actions that our family is no longer together. That their goal for her is to reunite us as a family but that she needs to follow this “treatment”. And that we should wait 1 year to try again, and we need to start as friends and move up from there. W told SIL that she wants to turn her life around.
This is different from what W told me yesterday. Not sure how I feel, honestly I’m surprised. What do you all think? And what do you think about waiting a year to try to R? I wish she would have explained it to me this way like my SIL did instead of just saying that we can’t get back together...
'This is different from what W told me yesterday."
Shocking. NOT
Believe nothing they say.............. Not sure how many more times you need to hear that.
"What do you all think? And what do you think about waiting a year to try to R?"
Completely up to you. No one would blame you if you pulled the plug. But no one will think less of you if you give her this year. You have to decide what is right for YOU, not for her or anyone else. That is what detachment is.
'I wish she would have explained it to me this way like my SIL did instead of just saying that we can’t get back together..."
Back to "Believe nothing she says". Not sure you really believe that.
Then SIL told me what really happened. That they found her to be an alcoholic and gave her a set of rules to follow.
Who is "they", her family? Or a counselor? Who pronounced her an "alcoholic"?
They told her that she can’t drink, go out, have any contact with her party friends, and that she needs to go to meetings 4 times a week. And no sex for one year.
Her family is telling her this? What kind of bizarre (5 step?) program is this? What are the consequences if she doesn't comply with these boundaries?
They told her that it was due to her actions that our family is no longer together. That their goal for her is to reunite us as a family but that she needs to follow this “treatment”.
Meaning reunite her and you or her and the rest of her family? Or all of the above?
And that we should wait 1 year to try again, and we need to start as friends and move up from there. W told SIL that she wants to turn her life around.
All these rules are baffling to me in their seeming randomness. What does "1 year" have to do with anything. She might be ready in 3 months. Or 2 years. Or never!
Steve, you are right that I need to stop believing everything she says , I am working on that.
AS, it is a counselor from AA. The counselor diagnosed her, imposed the rules, and the goal is that her and I reunite as a family. I don’t know what the consequences are either. It doesn’t have anything to do with her family. My SIL (the same one who told me all of this) went though the same program years ago to deal with some childhood trauma and she recommended it to my W (who was drinking and partying excessively and very depressed after we separated). It seems bizarre to me also but that’s what’s going on. I wish I had more info or details but that’s it.
Another weird update: Recieved a text from her 6:30pm “hey, sorry to bother you but could you tell me what this light means” (and sent me a pic of the dash of her car with a warning light on). I didn’t respond, and at 8:30pm recieved this: “From what I can tell you only cared about getting back together with me and you don’t care if I’m ok like you said. I won’t bother you again, go and file for divorce and send it to my address”. Didn’t respond to that either, my plan is to ignore it but what should I do?
Was thinking last night about how to respond...sometimes this is her way of wanting to talk to me about something (finding random excuses to ask me questions to start a convo). The second text isn’t typical of her, she’d usually wait a day before writing something like that but last night she only waited two hours. I still haven’t wrote back but not sure if that’s the right choice ...
Imlost8,
I don't see why you can't respond to the dashlight on your own time. It means this, or it means that, or you will have to ask a mechanic.
The second one sounds like she is goading you into R talks. You don't want to have R talks right now, she has an addiction she has to work through. This is why I personally don't try to have serious convos via text. I think your emotion, sympathy, and mirroring when you try to validate gets lost via text.
Also think about what she said. “From what I can tell you only cared about getting back together with me and you don’t care if I’m ok like you said. I won’t bother you again, go and file for divorce and send it to my address.” You do see the inherent contradiction in her statement correct? WAS mentality.
You could try something different and just not respond. The AA guidance your SIL shared with you is something I've heard before -- that for someone who is an addict, they need to focus on meetings and getting sober and should not have romantic or sexual relationships during their recovery period because they need to figure themselves out and learn to stand on their own two feet without using a relationship as an excuse or a crutch.
That guidance (I believe) is usually for single people versus married people, so it sounds like they're treating her as single.
The challenge I have with your course of action here is you're deciding what to do with your life based on reacting to what W does and what W says.
I think you need to flip that upside down, decide what YOU want to do, and do it. Decide how you want to live.
You're like a cork bobbing around in W's ocean where every wave throws you around and any breath of wind pushes you in a different direction. You need to be like a giant cargo ship heading in a set direction, where neither the waves nor the wind matter one bit. There's a set inertia, and nothing is going to overcome it.
That way, W can thrash, jump up and down, change course, whatever, but your ship keeps steaming forward.
Acc
Last night she called me on her way to her group, and asked if she could stop by after the group meeting to talk for a few minutes, I said yes I’d listen to what she has to say. So she came by, told me about her retreat, apologized for many things in the marriage, and said that she also remembered things that I did wrong which still makes her mad to remember them. She went over what she wants me to change (things that I already know and have changed or am working on). And told me what she knows that she needs to change for this to work.
She says she wants us to begin a “new relationship” from the bottom as friends and let it grow into more as the months go on. She said that she can’t be in a romantic relationship at the moment. She didn’t mention the one year wait that my SIL said (I didn’t tell her that my SIL talked to me). I didn’t say much during her talk and at the end i told her that I needed to think about it and I’d let her know.
I need to think about how to go about this, I want to do it but without being too enthusiastic or pressuring. That’s the only way it can work.
I do want to repair our marriage (that’s why I’m on the website and that’s why I still am in contact with her). I believe that her heart is in changing and I am changing as well. I truly believe it can work and we can be happy. As far as not knowing what do to at times, I know what my goal is, I just don’t want to keep making mistakes. I feel like this is a critical time to make or break this marriage. Thank you all for taking the time to help.
lost,
I'm happy for you that she expressed those thoughts and feelings. What I would have give for my W to do the same! You obviously aren't out of the woods yet, and as I'm sure the vets on here will attest to, don't be surprised if she goes cold again after saying all of that. I think you handled it well by telling her you need to think about it rather than jump at the first sign that she's considering a possible R. Maybe it was temp check? She needs to show you consistent action. Believe nothing of what they say. I'm pulling for you!
Wow Lost! That is really positive news. And good for you for not jumping at it and taking some time to think. As you know, too much enthusiasm would likely send her running again as it would feel like more pressure. Taking it slow is the only way to do this, I think. You’re right... it IS a critical time. It is a time to act and not to react. Read DR if you haven’t already. Continue to work on your 180s and GAL. Let her come to you for the most part. I am envious...I wish my H and I could get to this place but unlikely. Sending you lots of positive energy and hoping this is the beginning of a new and more satisfying R. (((HUGS)))
imlost8,
Sounds like good news. Sounds like she wants to start in right direction. Just be careful and remember actions speak louder than words. Also remember she ended the MR and so while she is coming to you and telling you what you need to change, ultimately if she wants to be apart of your life you set the terms. The spouse is a compliment to your life they should not define your life, and I think that this is a mistake a lot of us have made, both M and F LBS. Determine your non-negotiables and stick them, if the W truly wants you back then you have the position of strength in that you can just walk away. If this goes to piecing, everyone who has done it says this is where the work begins. I wish you well and keep us updated on your sitch.
AS, it is a counselor from AA. The counselor diagnosed her, imposed the rules, and the goal is that her and I reunite as a family.
Ah, OK thanks! That makes sense then. I missed the part where she was in AA now. Well that's good, hopefully she will take it seriously.
Another weird update: Recieved a text from her 6:30pm “hey, sorry to bother you but could you tell me what this light means” (and sent me a pic of the dash of her car with a warning light on). I didn’t respond, and at 8:30pm recieved this: “From what I can tell you only cared about getting back together with me and you don’t care if I’m ok like you said. I won’t bother you again, go and file for divorce and send it to my address”. Didn’t respond to that either, my plan is to ignore it but what should I do?
That's extremely passive/aggressive on her part. If she sticks with AA she's got a long, painful, difficult recovery ahead of her. I think during that time you should offer support but keep her at arm's length. No R discussions at all. Stuff like the above, I would tell her "your recovery is going to take quite a while, we should table any discussions about our relationship until you complete that".
So she came by, told me about her retreat, apologized for many things in the marriage, and said that she also remembered things that I did wrong which still makes her mad to remember them. She went over what she wants me to change (things that I already know and have changed or am working on). And told me what she knows that she needs to change for this to work.
I wouldn't give too much weight to this, I'm sure she is just repeating exactly what she was told to do in AA. I've never had direct experience with the AA steps but have had friends that did and it all sounds exactly like what I've heard before.
I didn’t say much during her talk and at the end i told her that I needed to think about it and I’d let her know.
I wouldn't open the door to friendship. My suggestion is to tell her you will support her during the process but you're not interested in being her friend, and after her recovery you two can decide where to go from there.
I believe that her heart is in changing and I am changing as well. I truly believe it can work and we can be happy. As far as not knowing what do to at times, I know what my goal is, I just don’t want to keep making mistakes. I feel like this is a critical time to make or break this marriage.
She's an addict and she is very likely to relapse. That is a roller coaster ride you do not want to go on. Like I said above, keep her at arm's length. I disagree with your comment that now is a critical time to make or break the M, no that will come much later after her recovery.
Hey everyone, wanted to give another update on my sitch. Things took a turn for the worse. Since my last update, we had been seeing more of each other and talking more (her initiating, sometimes I’d accept and sometimes not). Things were going good up until this weekend.
We took a trip out of state together, just the two of us. Her birthday is today, and the trip was to celebrate her birthday and for us to bond (her words). At first I was reluctant, but then she convinced me and I was excited about it. I know now that this was a huge mistake. So we drive out there (4 hours) and when we get there, we eat, go to a history museum, then walk along the canal. Everything 100% positive so far.
We then went to the hotel. Checked in, and we both felt tired so decided to take a nap. I woke up first, showered, and then she woke up. I asked her what she wanted to do, and she said she didn’t feel like doing anything, and I noticed she was in a mood. I asked her what was wrong and she said that it was boring here (which it really was lol we picked the wrong city to go to) and if we could go home. I said are you sure? We are already here, and she said yes let’s go. So we left, and it was a quiet ride home for the most part. About halfway into the ride, she starts talking about “us”. Saying that she doesn’t know if she wants to keep trying and that she cares about me but doesn’t love me, etc. I really didn’t say much (I was mad about coming back so soon so I kept quiet but she knew I wasn’t too happy).
She dropped me off at my house that night and the next day she texted me 1pm saying “ I’m sorry it didn’t work out, I really wanted to give it a shot”. I called her and asked if I could stop at her job to see her (I felt so low and depressed I just wanted to see her). She said yes, I brought her flowers and asked her if she wanted to do something and surprisingly she agreed. We went to the mall and had a good time. She asked me if I was ok and I said not really but I will be. When we left she said ok we’ll talk later and that was it. I called her that night and she didn’t answer and sent me a text saying that she didn’t feel like talking and that if I could respect that, I said yes and that was it.
In the morning she called me and asked me a question about her daughters phone. She was very serious and distant. Then yesterday I called her because they called me from the bank about her car loan and were trying to get in touch with her (she switched car insurance companies so they thought she had no insurance).
I told her about the bank thing and then she said listen I don’t want to keep trying, I don’t see the point. I don’t think you will change or be the man I want you to be. I said I feel as though we moved too fast and need to just be friends and take it slower. She repeated that she didn’t want to try and that I needed to understand. I said think about how many times you’ve told me that, and she said this time is different and she’s done, and hung up. I texted her saying that we both needed to take time and think about things, and not to say things she doesn’t mean. She said to leave her alone and that she doesn’t want to hear from me. That was it.
Today is her birthday and I feel really sad. I can’t even contact her to wish her a happy birthday. We were going to go out tonight. Do you think there’s a way to turn this around? I already know each and every mistake I made and I know not to repeat them. I just feel so depressed and low and lost again. I really got my hopes up this time. Now she doesn’t want anything to do with me.
I texted her saying that we both needed to take time and think about things, and not to say things she doesn’t mean. She said to leave her alone and that she doesn’t want to hear from me.
Sorry to hear about the setback. You were getting your hopes up and things seemed to be going well, so it must sting even more that you ended up in the same place. I guess just remind yourself that it's not your fault -- this is stuff going on with HER that SHE needs to deal with. She doesn't want to hear from you RIGHT NOW. So respect that, show her the love by giving her the space. No talk, just action. Go dark and wait.
I wanted to add that she asked me a little while back if I could go to a AA retreat like she did, she said that it would mean a lot to her because she would see that I want to improve myself, and it would help me to change my ways. I have been going to meetings but I hadn’t told her yet. Yesterday during our texting when I told her that we needed time I told her that my retreat was next weekend and that I needed this week and next week to focus on that and that I’d contact her after the retreat when I felt ready and she said ok.
imlost8, wow. Lots of mistakes here. And now you are paying the price.
Ask yourself: is this what GAL, 180s, and detachment look like? Honestly, unbiased, putting aside your feelings, wants and desires.
Take this:
I called her and asked if I could stop at her job to see her (I felt so low and depressed I just wanted to see her). She said yes, I brought her flowers and asked her if she wanted to do something and surprisingly she agreed. We went to the mall and had a good time. She asked me if I was ok and I said not really but I will be. When we left she said ok we’ll talk later and that was it.
I bet when you left you were on cloud 9. "She accepted the flowers! She went to the mall with me! She had a good time!" However look at the result:
I called her that night and she didn’t answer and sent me a text saying that she didn’t feel like talking and that if I could respect that, I said yes and that was it.
Ouch. See what pursuit and pressure does?
Your WAW is telling you loud and clear: "I WANT TIME AND SPACE."
Give it to her. Do you think she wanted you to come to work? Bring her flowers? Go the to mall together? NO. She is trying to let you down easy.
Pull back. Go dark. Let her figure her stuff out. You will never be successful until you remove all pressure and let her come to you. Be the lighthouse. The lighthouse doesn't chase ships......ships come to the lighthouse.
imlost8, learn from these mistakes. Double down on DBing. Save yourself and quit trying to save your M.
Steve you are right. I am reflecting on my mistakes and I am aware of them. Do you think I should text her happy birthday or is that pursuit? Thank you for your advice I needed to hear it
Hey! I haven't read your whole sitch, but you need to leave her alone. Go and do your own thing. Go NC/Dark as much as possible. Stop pursuit and pressure. I know you're hurting, but all of this behavior is sending beta male signals to her, which makes her lose more respect for you. Don't suddenly turn into a macho man, but start handling your own business and let her go on her path. You need to find yours.
Steve you are right. I am reflecting on my mistakes and I am aware of them. Do you think I should text her happy birthday or is that pursuit? Thank you for your advice I needed to hear it
This is always a tough one. My advice it to send a short, concise, closed-ended text message.
"Happy birthday. I hope you have a good one!"
Hey Steve, what about anniversary...lol...mine was 12/21...but have already told WW weeks ago that we aren't married
Definitely no anniversary message. You have to draw the line at that.
I did send her “happy birthday (her name)” and she replied thank you. I am going completely dark and NC and will see what happens and I’ll keep you all updated. And I will be reflecting on my mistakes and GAL...
Hey everyone, wanted to give another update on my sitch. Things took a turn for the worse.
DID THEY? DID THEY REALLY? No Lost, they didn't. She is in EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE she has been since BD. It's YOU that keeps flip flopping around all over the place and getting your hopes up when we tell you OVER AND OVER AGAIN that you're sabotaging yourself and that you need to detach, get out, GAL and leave her alone!! Sorry for the caps but you are being particularly stubborn and somehow, some way we have got to break through to you and impress upon you that YOU NEED TO START DB'ING OR YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF RECON. Yes, I said START DB'ing because to date you have not done one single thing that could be considered DB'ing.
Let's look back to 10-31:
imlost8, it sounds like your W is learning to miss you and that is a very good sign. You've gotten some great advice here but just to reinforce what others have told you- tread carefully, have ZERO expectations, and keep your W at arm's length. Accept some invitations and decline others. When she calls or texts, sometimes reply right away, sometimes an hour or two later and sometimes not at all (if it's nothing critical). Don't be immediately available to her all the time. DO NOT break into pursuit mode, many LBS's before you have done just that when their W started showing some positive signs and it just sends the WAS running again. Let her do all the pursuit. Keep up your GAL'ing and detaching. Good luck and keep us posted!
Read the bolded part. And how about 11-26:
This to me doesn’t sound like she wants to take time to work on her issues and come back. But would you say your advice still applies?
Yes the advice still applies. In fact the advice I gave you a month ago still applies, and
frankly I think if you had followed it she wouldn't feel the need to push you away right now:
imlost8, it sounds like your W is learning to miss you and that is a very good sign. You've gotten some great advice here but just to reinforce what others have told you- tread carefully, have ZERO expectations, and keep your W at arm's length. Accept some invitations and decline others. When she calls or texts, sometimes reply right away, sometimes an hour or two later and sometimes not at all (if it's nothing critical). Don't be immediately available to her all the time. DO NOT break into pursuit mode, many LBS's before you have done just that when their W started showing some positive signs and it just sends the WAS running again. Let her do all the pursuit. Keep up your GAL'ing and detaching. Good luck and keep us posted!
Your W is still confused and doesn't know what she wants.
It's a mistake to treat your sitch like a recon when she is still one foot (or maybe both feet) out the door. She's got to learn to miss you and she hasn't, you are far too available to her. Detach. GAL. Give her time and space.
Brother, you are not reconciling. Quit acting like you are. She is done for now, recon is way, way down the road after you both take time and space for yourselves. She only did this trip to cross off her list of "things I did to try to save the M but only proved it was already over". She is following the WAS script exactly. You are licking up the breadcrumbs like a starving dog in the street. Stop it. Leave her alone. Get out and GAL.
I did send her “happy birthday (her name)” and she replied thank you. I am going completely dark and NC and will see what happens and I’ll keep you all updated. And I will be reflecting on my mistakes and GAL...
Oh man, well what are you waiting for. You're going to start going dark right after you send her one last text. And one more. And one more. We can only place the tools in front of you. It's up to you to pick them up and use them. But let me tell you, that project ain't getting built as long as you keep leaving those tools on the ground.
AS, you are correct and I really needed to hear that. I have no trouble going dark and NC. I have no trouble not pursuing at first. But when I start to see her opening up, that’s where the issues begin.
The things she said to me this weekend really sting. It feels worse now then when she moved out. In particular she said “I’m done, I’m tired of this, and I don’t see the point in trying. I’m getting used to living on my own and the kids (my stepkids, not biological but I raised them) are also used to you not being in their lives anymore. It’s better this way for everyone. I don’t love you and I don’t feel attracted to you”. Do you all think these were said out of anger or is that the way she really feels?
I don’t know if she’ll come around again or if this time it really is different like she says. This weekend really hit me hard and opened my eyes up. I feel as though I now know exactly how I should have handled this and I know I screwed up.
This weekend was predictable.
You pursued and pressured. She capitulated out of being nice. She sensed you getting too comfortable and slapped you back into reality.
The trip was a terrible idea. As was all of your follow-up activities. You gave up long-term success potential for short-term wanting to feel better about things.
Look, we've all been through it. We get the near-panic attacks at being apart. You feel like if you could just see her then you could feel so much better. And temporarily that does work. But it is like Jenga. Every time you force her to see you you are pulling another piece of the Jenga tower out. Do that too much and it will eventually collapse. The idea is to NOT pull any pieces out (stop pursuing and pressuring) and then eventually she might be interested enough in saving things to start working with you to put pieces back.
Ring is a very fragile. The more damage you do now (remove too many pieces of the Jenga tower) the more likely it will all collapse when you start trying to put pieces back into the tower. You want that tower as solid as possible prior to Ring. And the only way to do that is to stop pulling pieces out now: give her the time and space she has requested!!
Thank you Steve, how you explained it really makes sense. One question though, how do you know when the tower has collapsed? How do you know when it’s really too late?
Most people will say it is when they file for D, and see it through to the end. In my opinion, D doesn't have to be the end. Some spouses are more impulsive and will D before their heart is fully in it, and therefore there is a chance for them to come back even after D.
But when it collapses is when the LBS has pressured and pursued to the point where they've pushed the WAS past the point of no return. You never really know when that is. That would require mind reading. But what you know for sure is that pressure and pursuit will cause damage and push the WAS closer to that point of no return. So don't chance it.
Thank you Steve that makes perfect sense. All I can do is hope that I didn’t push her past that point. Only time will tell...
I see the collapse is when you don't care if it collapses and want it to because you have yourself in a new mental/emotional state that you want to build the tower again and do it right. Right now you are duct taping the jenga together in fear of a collapse and its not a good way to play the game.
If that makes sense.
Lost8 that does make sense. But say if the tower does collapse and I want to build a new one, but WAS gives up and wants nothing to do with it, what can be done about that? I’m all for starting a brand new relationship but if this time really is different and she never wants to give it a shot then not much I can do... I really hope she comes around but I don’t feel very confident this time.
you can't control whether she wants to rebuilds it with you or not. The point is that you may be starting over with or without her but you have to get to that point in your head and heart. Of course you want to build a new one but that is better than watching the old tower teeter and fear it collapsing and what your next move is while life around you moves on. The idea is the next time regardless you will build the tower and use some glue so it doesn't fall as easily and it might be with her but you will have learned from the past. You won't get there unless you completely drop the rope.
I've been there and I felt like I was going crazy, I have wasted the last 7 months of my life not just mine but part of my kids as well and I won't do it anymore.
I don't look at the tower collapsing as getting a D, I see it as you being ready to move on from her so that you can live your best life.
Thank you for explaining that. I was at that point about 2 months ago, before she started coming around. This time it stings even more then BD. I know that I need to get to that point again where I was 2 months ago. I just need to find a way to build myself up again and it feels harder this time but I have to do it.
Oh yeah its hard, my WW went from working out of the house to working at home last month. Now she never leaves the house and has been pursuing me. You say that's great right? But she still says she wants her independence and to stop sweating her when she does occasionally go out. I broke free of my NG syndrome to an extent a few months ago and don't care where she goes anymore and lose no sleep over it. I am still cordial at home like everyone says the way I would be with a cashier at a store. I want a civil home for my kids. I have my own independence now because I am not worried about catering to my W whether she is a WW or not at this point. I feel like she has come back to me but 98% is all words and very little action so I would not even consider any R talks or if I even want R.
Again I didn't wait for the tower to collapse, I kicked it over and she sees that I did that. I am already rebuilding another one and she either joins in or not.
What did Morgan Freeman say in Shawshank Redemption....get busy living or get busy dying. If you don't let go you are slowly dying.
Good job on that, it must be even harder living with her and not caring, I don’t think I could do it. At least in my case I have no idea what she’s doing so it’s a a little easier, so again good job!! I know it’s not easy!
I think my frustration with myself is that she was coming around, and I didn’t care at all at first. I screwed up, I was in a great position and blew it. And it was most likely my last shot at making this work which makes it even harder to accept. I need to get into the state of mind that you are in!
I don't look at the tower collapsing as getting a D, I see it as you being ready to move on from her so that you can live your best life.
I look at that as the LBS deciding to knock the tower over. Most come here hoping to find a way to avoid the tower collapsing, but many get to this point.
I guess different interpretations...I see the tower being a symbol of the sitch and there are no more blocks to pull, you can struggle and pursue and force yourself to wish to remove another block to not upset the tower to appease the game. Or you can decide to build a better tower a better man that can't fall.
btw Steve is always spot on I just think we are looking at the representation of the tower differently. The current tower cannot survive it must be rebuilt, the old R is gone and if we continue to pull blocks it will fall. A healthy R is needs to be built and no blocks are required to be pulled.
Quick update/rant. My stepson sent me a text saying that his mom (W) told him to ask me about my stepdaughters phone case that we ordered (supposed to be sent to my house, still hadn’t arrived). I told him that it hadn’t came in and asked how he was and that was it.
My rant is that I think it’s very immature for her to ask her son to text me for her. Is it because I asked her for space until I got back from my AA retreat (which I just got back from and it was a good experience I really needed it)? It just bothers me when she involves the kids. Am I wrong? Why do you think she had him do that and she just not text me personally?
I think in this case it is fine. It is about an ordered item coming to your house. If she were having stepson text you about D case or state of R then yes that would be inappropriate. I'd let this go.
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