Part I:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2804271#Post2804271Part II:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2806091#Post2806091Part III:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2808247#Post2808247New thread. One full of hope, healing, and positive actions.
It's been five days since I had my last anxiety attack. Five days of spending an awesome time with my D4. Five days of really exercising and lifting. Five days of increasing confidence.
For those keeping count, this is day 119 of me DBing. Day 38 of measuring tangible progress. I feel more and more confident in myself. Physically, emotionally, and mentally. I'm a f*cking awesome, attractive, funny man. A great father. A great son. A good employee (striving to be great). My confidence is rocketing upward. This is the longest stretch all year that I have felt this good. I'm not sure if it's the medicine keeping my anxiety under control or if it's me. All I know is that I'm having a good stretch.
I'm distancing myself from W's uncle as I feel that he is a trigger for my emotions. He isn't helping my case. He is a great guy, but...I see why W wanted me to avoid him. (Will never tell W that.)
And will make a lucky woman feel great once I get that opportunity. My hopes are still with W. But I don't control that.
I control my f*cking awesomeness.
MC tomorrow afternoon.
DB coach Session 2 Friday.
Day 39/120:
Had a mostly good day yesterday. Needed to pick up W and D4 from work/school and drive them back. However, I had a critical work issue that I needed to resolve and I was getting a little worked up about it. Before DBing, I would have gotten irritable with W's suggestions and told her that it's fine. This time around, I listened to her advice on dealing with the issue and I took her advice. Took about 20 minutes to resolve. W and D4 were in my car waiting. I fixed the issue (issue was halting business so problem needed to be fixed) and went back to car with D4 and W. Told them that I was needed to fix the issue at hand but it was resolved. I was happy and getting more relaxed about it as we talked (another change). We chatted a little going back home. She brought up the fact that her uncle's girlfriend invited both of us to his surprise party. GF said to W that she didn't know if it was weird or awkward to invite us this way. She said that we get along and work fine (hurt to hear, but again...likely temp checking me to see what I would say). I then told her this:
"I'm going to start distancing a little from your uncle. I thought about what you said about feeding off his anger in how he dealt with his sitch and based off that and the reaction I had with you (W) it was not going to anything but cause more hurt feelings, which we both don't need right now. It was a difficult enough day as it was with the two conversations we had and him telling me stuff was a trigger to an avalanche of negative feelings and anxiety that caused the day to end like this."
She acknowledged my convo and we continued to chat. We got home, I got ready to GAL. D4 went into her bedroom and we sat at the kitchen table and talked for over an hour. Nothing serious about our sitch. Just about bills, D4, upcoming trips, our friend and her abusive R, and some other lighthearted conversations. Totally lost track of time. Left the house and she texted me the issue with her vehicle and why it needed to be fixed (vehicle got stuck in the sand at beach). I texted her back and joked with her that things never change. She didn't know what I was talking about. I told her about the same issue she went through 10 years ago with her other vehicle. She got embarassed and said she had to go (playful) and hung up.
GAL until late. W called me at 2AM to make sure I was ok and where I was. Told her I was at home. Hung up and went back to sleep.
Plus:
I don't know if it's DB to continue to hope for R or not. And it may be a fool's errand...but I'm feeling more hopeful. About me. About my life. About my chances for R with W.
I'm still scared. And obviously I'm still Detaching. But I keep seeing positive signs.
I'm very excited to see what's going to happen going into the fall. In a year in which I have accomplished so much and experienced so many key moments, this sitch and accomplishing R, as Dick Enberg said at the end of Super Bowl 32, "Would be the the highest moment."
Plus:
I don't know if it's DB to continue to hope for R or not. And it may be a fool's errand...but I'm feeling more hopeful. About me. About my life. About my chances for R with W.
I'm still scared. And obviously I'm still Detaching. But I keep seeing positive signs.
I'm very excited to see what's going to happen going into the fall. In a year in which I have accomplished so much and experienced so many key moments, this sitch and accomplishing R, as Dick Enberg said at the end of Super Bowl 32, "Would be the the highest moment."
I think it is. I know in my sitch, as her attitude and actions started to change, and she moved back toward the MR, my hope went up. However, I continued to work on self-differentiation (look that up in relation to marriage) because not being properly detached, or overly attached, is NEVER a good thing. We live in an imperfect world. People change, die, etc.....If your happiness is overly attached to another person then you are setting yourself up for problems later.
So by all means, keep DBing, keep being hopeful, but remember to be happy with yourself!
Plus:
I don't know if it's DB to continue to hope for R or not. And it may be a fool's errand...but I'm feeling more hopeful. About me. About my life. About my chances for R with W.
I'm still scared. And obviously I'm still Detaching. But I keep seeing positive signs.
I'm very excited to see what's going to happen going into the fall. In a year in which I have accomplished so much and experienced so many key moments, this sitch and accomplishing R, as Dick Enberg said at the end of Super Bowl 32, "Would be the the highest moment."
I think it is. I know in my sitch, as her attitude and actions started to change, and she moved back toward the MR, my hope went up. However, I continued to work on self-differentiation (look that up in relation to marriage) because not being properly detached, or overly attached, is NEVER a good thing. We live in an imperfect world. People change, die, etc.....If your happiness is overly attached to another person then you are setting yourself up for problems later.
So by all means, keep DBing, keep being hopeful, but remember to be happy with yourself!
Steve, I'm happy with myself. I'm loving myself more and more daily. I'm loving at the weight I'm losing and the physique I'm building for myself. I love how much of a better father I'm being to a beautiful D4 (I posted pictures of our trip and I got 60 facebook likes...all from my friends...they all told me how beautiful she is and how blessed I am.), and I'm kicking so much ass at my new job.
I haven't felt this good for a long time.
Day 40/121:
Nightmares of W and OM. Not a great start.
W seems to want to talk more. I’m still responding at my own time and in short replies. Temptation to talk more is there but I would feel this is a little too soon (pursuit).
DB coach session 2 this morning.
I’ll provide details if MC and DB session following completion.
DB session complete. Nothing groundbreaking, but he did suggest that I kind of start nudging into cultivating the friendship I am having with W. I am to have NO CONVERSATION REGARDING R (duh). There is no momentum built up yet. I need to continue to build the foundation.
Keep up the positive mental attitude (will provide my feelings shortly) and focus on the friendship. I was told that the BS from the WAS does not want to be friends (fear of friendzone, needs to be at lover/soulmates zone), so continuing to build a friendship is key. Keep it light, easy, and playful.
GAL is key. If I continue to take care of myself, it continues to build resilience for the challenges ahead.
One of the challenges is to have ask for a friendly meeting. Nothing about dates, none of that. Just a friendly sit-down and chat (kind of what we did two days ago). Follow-up challenge is to how to react if she says "No". If I can't handle her saying "No" then I can't ask. Not until I'm ready.
More reinforcement of being her friend. Avoid pursuit. Avoid laying it on thick in regards to romance.
Go at a steady pace. MARATHON NOT SPRINT. Pace is very important.
Time will tell if W is responding to the changes and she becomes increasingly warm to me.
Expecting R vs. Longing for an R. Explained that it's ok for me to long for an R. Look forward to the day she is beginning to show remorse.
Ask her a friend how the concert was, show interest, concern, care, but DO NOT PURSUE OR CHASE.
Again reinforcing building a good foundation.
Brought up the fact that during our talk two days ago she had to "detangle" from her unhealthy friendship with her friend and she's going to attempt to R with her friend. DB coach told me to use that as a parallel for my sitch.
Find opportunities to spend with her. Family time is great. I may ask her for dinner with D4 tonight. Maybe.
Follow up in two weeks.
As far as my feelings go, the nightmare effects will not go away. I'm pretty bummed out and feeling slightly hopeless. W is spending night at OM's place again. I'm trying not to let it bother me, but obviously it is. I keep thinking of the stuff W said previously and how before our S what she said was mostly true. But I also know to not believe anything she says and 50% of what she does. So I'm conflicted.
Stepping back, this is only month 1 or month 4 of DB. Normally things occur from month 5/6/7. So I have a way to go.
Even though I'm happy at the progress I made, the feelings i'm feeling now remind me that I'm still in this painful sitch and there is no end yet in sight.
Day 40/121:
Nightmares of W and OM. Not a great start.
W seems to want to talk more. I’m still responding at my own time and in short replies. Temptation to talk more is there but I would feel this is a little too soon (pursuit).
DB coach session 2 this morning.
I’ll provide details if MC and DB session following completion.
No advice here pain, but the last 3 nights I've woke up in a sweat after having nightmares about W and OM. And as far as I know, W and OM were never physical, and are no longer in contact. But I can relate on the bad dreams. Not fun. Hopefully it gets better
Hi pain,
I've been out of commission....wanted to check in with you.
All I can say after getting caught up is that I feel very good about your sitch. I don't know whether it will end in R with your W or not. But I do think that you have the tools and desire to come out a better person either way. Your progress is really great. All the feelings, the mistakes, the hopes that you have had. I had the same. I pray for you and your family.
Thanks for the ongoing support everyone.
Day 41/122:
Now I see the need to GAL. I've been at home with a very hyper D4 trying to motivate myself to so something (Trying to be cheap). I did two small tasks and have mostly been...obsessing about W and the time she is spending with OM.
My neediness is really taking a toll on my mood and I'm feeling some pain again.
I know I have made great progress since I starting DBing full force, but today is considered a fairly significant down day. I haven't crashed. And I don't have anxiety.
Just feeling really depressed. Hopeless. And sad.
I have always wanted her back. My mood is screaming desperation for her now. Not attractive at all. But I'm safe to express it safely in the confines of my house.
I'm ok. I'm working on turning it around for a better day.
Last post of the day.
No change in feelings. Still sad. Still obsessing. Entering down part of the roller coaster.
Good night everyone.
Me too pain...you will be fine. Get some rest. Stay strong buddy!
I know the feeling - it's horrible. Nothing anybody can say makes it go away either. Just find your inner strength.
Day 42/123:
Anxiety again. Haven’t been sleeping well lately.
Also saw something in Did’s sitch that worries me. DB coach tells me to foster a friendship and treat her like a sibling. He said LBS of a WAW would default to attempting an R since they don’t want to be “friend-zoned”. So the better option would be to make conversations and meetings friendly.
On the other hand, being friendly is not the way to go. I’m slowly trying to nudge things but I’m afraid that if I treat her like a friend...that it will be the beginning of the end of M and we can ever be is friends.
Damnit. I was feeling so good until yesterday. This feels like a setup to a huge setback. What/how should I proceed? Continue to stay as dark as I can? Let W warm up on her own? I want to tell her but I know it’s too early. It’s way too early and I don’t want to undo the good progress I made.
My emotions are trying to take over my logic. It’s mounting something furious. I know I can’t let it take over, but its getting hard.
And now W is going to be to teaching her class late because her concert "got out late". So she asked me to run the class instead of co-teaching (I volunteered to teach Sunday classes this school year).
I want to ask her "Are you using me for your getting your own needs fulfilled? Was this the point of me volunteering all along so that you can continue your "casual dating BS" with OM???"
I'm going dark. Screw her.
You're good Pain. I'm also a little confused about the 'friend zone' thing. I guess it all depends on what type of relationship you/we had with our W's prior to BD? I mean, if the relationship was very close, talkative, etc, then the need to build a 'friendship' probably isn't as great as it is when the 'connection' wasn't there for a while?
You're good Pain. I'm also a little confused about the 'friend zone' thing. I guess it all depends on what type of relationship you/we had with our W's prior to BD? I mean, if the relationship was very close, talkative, etc, then the need to build a 'friendship' probably isn't as great as it is when the 'connection' wasn't there for a while?
Thank you. I'm happy that what I'm feeling is normal.
We had a close relationship. Lots of hugging, cuddling, kissing. Very little sex (my fault). Not very talkative and at times I was scared/angry to talk to her (NGS symptom). I want to build something with her, but I don't/can't want to live my life in limbo. The connection was really frayed towards BD but we still communicated/talked.
Trademark "bad" weekend.
See my sitch didn't have much meaningful communication, and next to no physical intimacy. Do you think the DB coach meant to rebuild the friendship foundation, and then mix in a little physical stuff (flirting, touching, etc), which would help avoid friend zone?
I think so Terapin.
Not going to do that today. I’m...pretty depressed. GAL now but I’m struggling.
Put on an “I’m ok” face in front of W. Chatted while we shopped together with D4.
I’m showing cracks and I’m afraid I may break down.
This isn’t good.
Called my mom crying.
She asked me if I still had room in my heart for her. I thought about it and said "yes". She told me to keep fighting. She told me that I'm an amazing son, father and will make an even better husband the second time around. I was driving so I had to pull over I was sobbing so much.
I hate this. And none of the folks here going through a version of hell like my sitch deserve this. At all.
Hang in ther pain18. I went through this in 2003 came out of it in 2004. Right now I think my wife wants out again. We're still together, still talking but it's definitely starting to get uncomfortable again. But, I've done the rollercoaster rides had my setbacks many times. My wife told me three times over the course of a year she wanted a divorce and I even told her to start the process and in the end she didn't follow through. Stay hopeful, and stay the course.
She's in the bath. Last time I was in the house while she bathed she was in a towel, went into her bedroom for...50 minutes. Came out, asked for Apple Cider Vinegar and warm water and went back in to...clean up.
Next day, I went through phone records...50 minute call to OM during that time.
Agony. Heartbreak. And a lesson to never snoop again.
I'm having another anxiety attack from the PTSD. Why is she doing this?
I go back to when we first met and she said if I cheated it's over. Now she's doing this. Under the bullshit guise of "we're separated. I can do what I want." If I pulled the same crap, I'd be out on my ass penniless and homeless.
I don't deserve this. I may have neglected her emotional and physical needs, but this is just awful.
Please let it end soon.
Pain,
Looking back, it was the best worst experience of my life. I am sure I am a better parent for it. I am a better man. I am a better lover. I committed to personal growth. Trust the process.
I am, R2C....I am. I'm growing. And growth is painful.
I am just really sad that I’ll have to wait another 17 years to find love if this leads to a divorce. I don’t want to go through the awful process of dating and relationships again. I’m trying to better myself, but I’m feeling (again) that it’s just wishful thinking.
Awful.
Pain,
Much love buddy, keep that head held high, you got this. Keep at it, keep GAL. Your wonderful D4 needs a strong dad. I'm rooting for you. Peace.
Early day 43/124:
It’s almost 4am. Haven’t slept since 130. Decided to take a drive to a river outlook and face the dam lights.
I’ve been praying...something that I haven’t done in years. Because I am desperate. I’m trying to do everything I can to right myself and my life. And I don’t know what else to do to ease this pain.
It’s drizzling and I’m letting the drizzle hit my head. It’s giving me some comfort.
No idea on how to proceed this week. Want to tell W that I want to work on things but I cannot. She has to come to me.
Exhausted.
Dropped off D4 at preschool (where W works). Put in a confident face and demeanor. Totally faking it.
Let’s go Monday.
One day at a time, one hour, one minute at a time when required.
You can handle this.
One thing that help me when lying in bed was imaging GOD was holding me in his huge hands. Just be and feel him loving and taking care of me.
I have neglected him for awhile now and I feel that this is the punishment I'm getting for doing so. I'm working on incorporating him back into my life and I have seen improvements in other areas.
But this...I don't know. I don't know what his plans are for us. I hope it's R because of our D4, our house, etc. I'm just afraid that it may not be. And if it's not, what more bad stuff could happen? And how much more can I take?
I'm venting primarily. I know I just have to be patient. It's just harder some days (like now). The gaps between bad days and good days are slowly getting wider, but they are just as painful.
I just wish this would stop.
I had another breakdown two hours earlier.
Nothing in my sitch changed. Just the awful things W has done and continues to do to me. I wish I can believe her that there is no emotional or physical A with OM but I can't. I knew I shouldn't have snooped.
Day three of me being a crying, blubbering mess. Everytime I think I have reined it in, a destructive thought comes and it kicks me down and I'm the ground gasping for breath again.
I learned my lessons...and I'm finding out (very painfully) what not to do once I get my second chance.
I know I'm doing the right things. I feel like I'm growing. But every little bit I grow is brutal. I keep wanting to cry "Stop! Stop it now!" and I can't. I keep getting positive feedback. But it's so difficult to detach. Does it take this long?
I've been only DBing for a hair over four months. I'm learning it takes anywhere from 6-12, maybe longer. Is that true? Approximately one month for every year we've been together (9 years) or married (7 years)?
Is she teasing me? Is she slowly coming around? Is she gaming with me? I want answers that I can't have. And that's what makes this all the worse.
Crash.
Hopeless. Unattractive. Lonely.
Day 44/125,
Well, at least I’m awake.
No change in mood or feelings.
Edit: W went to concert in city. Stayed at...where else? OM’s place.
Why? She hasn’t changed really for anyone else. But for me, and the claims that she “cares” for me, she is destroying me bit by bit daily.
8 months and counting of this garbage.
Pain- please stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. Try starting with a gratitude journal everyday. Write down things that you are thankful for. Even follow it up with things that make you happy- new experiences that you want to try- along with your daily or long term goals. Hopefully this takes your mind off her and puts you in a better mindset focusing on you. Good luck on your journey!
Pain- please stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. Try starting with a gratitude journal everyday. Write down things that you are thankful for. Even follow it up with things that make you happy- new experiences that you want to try- along with your daily or long term goals. Hopefully this takes your mind off her and puts you in a better mindset focusing on you. Good luck on your journey!
I have been doing that, LW. I've been great strides in GAL and getting my issues addressed. I have accomplished nine major goals so far this year. Stuff that I never thought I would achieve. And it's being noticed. I'm not asking for notice. It's just happening. I'm putting on a "I'm great!" face around W and her friends. Something that I have never done before. I stopped talking about R at the end of July. It was the day after I "let her go" I signed up for the forums here and asked for guidance on this journey. The last 44 days have been huge in terms of my growth. And the last three days I feel like I have stalled. I tried to GAL last weekend but it was harder than usual. The thoughts of W and OM invade me constantly. I keep hoping and keep detaching (terribly slow process). I don't know what the average time for detaching is, but I sure as f*ck know it's not 44 or 125 days.
And that's the hard part is that I know I have a long long way to go.
Day three of me being a crying, blubbering mess. Everytime I think I have reined it in, a destructive thought comes and it kicks me down and I'm the ground gasping for breath again.
Sounds like you're having panic attacks (gasping for breath). Crying is fine and healthy, but if you're having panic attacks and/ or suicidal thoughts then get to your doc ASAP. You may need to get on medication for a while to help you through the rough spots.
But it's so difficult to detach. Does it take this long?
It takes a long time. Usually when people think they are detached they are still a good 6 months away from actually being detached.
I've been only DBing for a hair over four months. I'm learning it takes anywhere from 6-12, maybe longer. Is that true? Approximately one month for every year we've been together (9 years) or married (7 years)?
Not sure what you're asking, it can take that long to what? If you mean recon, everyone wants a timeline which is why Michele mentioned that in her book (one month per year together) but that is just a very loose guideline. Some recons happen in less than a year, but most don't happen for a couple of years. Some even happen a decade or more later. And of course some never happen, often because the LBS no longer wants it when the WAS changes their mind. The outcome is unknown, so the goal is to get yourself to the point where you are OK REGARDLESS of the outcome.
AS,
I'm already on medication. I've been working with my doctor regularly to address this. All pills will do is help with the peaks and valleys, which it does, but it's not a cure-all. That being said, I am able to function through this hell.
Six months, nine months, I don't know. You're right in which it may take months. I don't want to rush the process. At this point I still want things to work out with W and I. I've been wanting that for months. I deflate at the thought of a year or longer part. I can be patient, but I cannot keep hoping while other opportunities for happiness pass me by. I'm not at that point yet, but I'm making my way there. I just don't know how much time to give myself before I stop trying on R. I'm improving on myself. Daily. But my hope for R ebbs and flows. Folks like Gordie and Steve had to go through a longer period of this before WAW began to turn around. I just don't know how long they held on and when they considered giving up. And that's the hard part. The waiting.
I also am noticing that when I get depressed I frequent this place more often. Something that I'm also trying to fix. Obsessing isn't helping matters and I'm reading way too much into other people's sitchs and affecting my thinking.
Going to try to stay away for a few hours today folks. Hopefully I can succeed.
I'm already on medication. I've been working with my doctor regularly to address this. All pills will do is help with the peaks and valleys, which it does, but it's not a cure-all. That being said, I am able to function through this hell.
Sorry I think you did mention that before but at my age I have trouble remembering the details in all the different sitches here! Quite right that it's not a "cure" for grief but it should help you get through the grief a little easier.
I deflate at the thought of a year or longer part. I can be patient, but I cannot keep hoping while other opportunities for happiness pass me by.
Not many people have that kind of patience. I mean if someone told me "if you patiently DB for 3 years then your W will come back, that's 100% guaranteed" then I would have stuck it out. But without a guarantee who wants to put up with years of this crap? Most LBS's move on after a year or two. They get over the grief, they meet new people, they start dating, they realize there IS life after BD. And often, by the time the WAS does come back and express interest, the LBS is fully invested in their new life and doesn't want the WAS anymore. A lot of people come here asking "why aren't there more success stories", well that's a big reason why. But likewise, I've seen a few cases here where the LBS DID wait for years, and the WAS never did want to recon. So you have to decide for yourself how long of a wait is long enough.
Pain,
if the stress is too much, you don't have to involve yourself with her other than your child. Only you can decide how much is enough for you.
If you can't take it and pull back, she will respond. Whether or not it saves the marriage or brings it to the head on divorce is unknown. Or you keep going as is.
Sorry things are so tough right now.
I'm doing good. I know it. And I see encouraging signs from W. I just hit a major dip for the last three days. It happens many weekends W is out.
I keep hoping and praying that it comes to an end soon because nothing lasts forever...I'm trying to keep my head up because others have been able to overcome as well.
I approach in a friendly manner some days and pull back other days. No pursuit for a month and a half and she has already started to open up. I just need to remember to be patient and know that any decision I make has to come of sound mind, which I am nowhere near right now. I have sound mind moments and I'm slowly getting more of them as this goes on, but I'm nowhere near where I ideally need to be.
Just finished a nearly two hour call where I stood up to...my abusive father. He tried to call me a coward for breaking down about my sitch, I countered and told him that I will cry because it hurts and I WILL get stronger. He said I was weak and subservient to W when he visited, I countered that it was a choice I made because I wanted to help out. He said that I was forced to change my D4, I countered HARD by saying that due to the traumatic circumstances of my D4’s birth and her intestinal problems I was eternally grateful to get the chance to change her and clean up her poop. D4 could have died due to intestinal issues.
He threw punch after punch. He blamed my W for this sitch, and I countered saying I had a role in it as well. Six times. He tried to bait me a 7th time and I told him that I was done talking about it.
I have never spoke to him like...a man like this before. And I went toe to toe with him. My abusive father. And I stood up to him. Repeatedly.
This is a major accomplishment.
I busted my abusive relationship with my father. I stood up to him. Like a man.
Day 45/126:
Roller coaster drop seems to have stopped and leveled out. I was able to keep it together yesterday and capped it off with my life-changing call to my abusive father. I'm still feeling good about my interaction with him. I feel like I established and enforced my boundaries after 30+ years of allowing him to abuse me and me being submissive so that I cannot be hurt any further by him.
MC tomorrow.
Feeling good right now.
Congrats pain!
Keep up the good working DBing!
Congrats Pain! Bet that felt good.
Congrats Pain! Bet that felt good.
It was huge. Life changing. It's not R with W, but it's a massive step towards becoming a better MAN. And I'll need it as I keep charging on.
Dinner with W and D4 tonight (as of right now. W can change her mind...50% and whatnot). I'm assuming the answer should be "no" unless she brings it up, but should I bring up the conversation and breakthrough I had from my conversation with my father last night? Is that considered pursuit?
Had a good family dinner with the W and D4. Talked about my conversation with my father. She still seethes with rage and told me that he’s not invited to our house. I agreed. She goes on talking about how we’re good parents and that she worked two jobs and takes care of the house. I told her that I told my dad that as well. Then talked about plans for the fall...snow driving, my hopes for a raise next month, and other non-Relationship stuff. Briefly talked about where she stays when she is in the city (near OM). She said that I’m assuming things of where she stays (pursuit? Don’t think I did good there).
She’s going to pack my clothes for my weekend away. I didn’t ask.
Pursued a little when I told her about an addicting app that I was on for three years was deleted off my phone. Felt proud to tell her that.
Not a bad evening.
Would like some feedback, though. I know I’m doing the right things but I just want to continue my strat and continue to be a better me while longing and hoping for R.
Still looking for feedback.
Why pursue? Why tell her about changes? Let her find out and see for herself. You telling her shows her that you're sucking up and trying to get her back. Why would she come back to you when she already knows you're there waiting in the wings?
I am a big fan of yours and your progress, but quit chasing the woman who doesn't want you. Let her feel a loss, she certainly didn't mind putting you through hell.
Got it. I knew it was pursuit when I told her. When I finished saying those things, I told myself "You're pursuing. Don't do it again."
Lesson learned.
You need to detach some more, you need to detach in fact. Remember DB is for you, expect nothing and act as if you expect nothing. Be some misterious, GAL, as Over says, she must feel some kind of loss. You are waiting for some short term signals, just don’t. Let her go if you want her back. Be strong pain!
I know nef/ovr, I'm still working on that part. I don't know if it's going slower than usual or if the progress I'm making is normal. I'm on Day 46/127 of DBing, so I don't really know where other DBing folks would be at this point. I feel like I'm a little behind, seeing as how I'm making the changes for myself and seeing/feeling those changes. I'm mostly doing it for myself, but I am longing for W to notice as well (according to DB coach, nothing wrong with longing for this). I can see how I'm trying to force her to take notice, which isn't detaching.
I guess I'm getting a little impatient when in reality I know that I'm still deep and working on getting to true detachment.
Still, I can't help but think of the strong signs she continues to give. Her walls are still up, and I guess I'm temp-checking her in a way. So I should stop that as well?
Still, I can't help but think of the strong signs she continues to give. Her walls are still up, and I guess I'm temp-checking her in a way. So I should stop that as well?
YES
WASs/WSs have a sixth sense for telling if you are making changes for real, or if you are just doing it to manipulate them. So do the former and not the latter. How? By making the changes for yourself! Make sure you are sticking to your changes when someone can see you and when they can't! Real change is change you make when no one else is looking. It is just like if you were an alcoholic. Stopping drinking in front of others isn't sobriety. Stopping drinking ALL THE TIME is sobriety.
So be consistent,
Still, I can't help but think of the strong signs she continues to give. Her walls are still up, and I guess I'm temp-checking her in a way. So I should stop that as well?
YES
WASs/WSs have a sixth sense for telling if you are making changes for real, or if you are just doing it to manipulate them. So do the former and not the latter. How? By making the changes for yourself! Make sure you are sticking to your changes when someone can see you and when they can't! Real change is change you make when no one else is looking. It is just like if you were an alcoholic. Stopping drinking in front of others isn't sobriety. Stopping drinking ALL THE TIME is sobriety.
So be consistent,
I'm proud to say that I'm behaving like this to everyone, Steve. The changes are taking hold and I'm feeling them. I feel like a new person each day and I'm loving myself more and more. I know this is not an act because I'm not acting. If I were acting, I wouldn't feel as great as I do now. Many people are seeing and acknowledging changes, without having me ask them. I just need to keep up my good work.
Still, I can't help but think of the strong signs she continues to give. Her walls are still up, and I guess I'm temp-checking her in a way. So I should stop that as well?
YES
WASs/WSs have a sixth sense for telling if you are making changes for real, or if you are just doing it to manipulate them. So do the former and not the latter. How? By making the changes for yourself! Make sure you are sticking to your changes when someone can see you and when they can't! Real change is change you make when no one else is looking. It is just like if you were an alcoholic. Stopping drinking in front of others isn't sobriety. Stopping drinking ALL THE TIME is sobriety.
So be consistent,
I'm proud to say that I'm behaving like this to everyone, Steve. The changes are taking hold and I'm feeling them. I feel like a new person each day and I'm loving myself more and more. I know this is not an act because I'm not acting. If I were acting, I wouldn't feel as great as I do now. Many people are seeing and acknowledging changes, without having me ask them. I just need to keep up my good work.
Awesome! CONSISTENCY IS THE KEY.
Day 47/128:
Awake early. Again. No nightmare. Just...up.
Lots of damage to be repaired. But starting to see the upside in all of this.
I'm up early too. GAL with the pup at the marsh. Have a good one, pain.
Still awake since 2am. Three hours of sleep. I woke up for no reason. No trigger. But it has been happening more frequently since I started DBing. That being said, I'll happily take less sleep for a better me. Kept myself entertained while I was awake. Watched Netflix, tried to sit in the warm shower, and prayed/meditated. Didn't help me with sleep, but it is what it is.
W came back from her overnight wherever and she told me that she also didn't sleep well. Told it's funny how I knew she didn't sleep well (when i don't sleep well, she doesn't sleep well). Had a pleasant chat, wished them a great weekend and drove into work. Saw a gorgeous sunrise with light streaming through the clouds. Compared that scene to what we're going through. (The sun will rise after a long period of darkness and clouds, and you will see and feel the light and warmth. You just need to keep going).
Feeling good.
Day 48/129:
Life changing event just occurred:
I traveled out of the country for the first time in 35 years (I’m 37). Canada welcomes me.
Hello excitement. Hello anxiety. Hello GAL to the max.
Enjoy the trip. Create new memories. It is great to take a break from the sitch and get out the rut of daily life.
Enjoy the trip. Create new memories. It is great to take a break from the sitch and get out the rut of daily life.
This year has been many things. A rut is definitely not one of them. As painful 2018 has been so far, a lot of life changing events and experiences have occurred.
There is no conclusion to this relationship story yet so I say this with a lot of hesitation...but the separation from W may have saved my life. Given me a new life, actually.
Wow.
Moving forward pain!
You are getting stronger. Feel the power, it’s yours!
Sending you a hug!
Loving Canada.
Sad that I have no one to share it with. Very beautiful and romantic city.
Day 49/130:
Woke up early again, coincidentally in time for morning prayers. Got those done and now journaling.
I go home in a few hours and I don't want to. I know I have to though. W contacting me has been very meager. Yesterday I got a total of four text messages. I replied in total with four words. I'm thinking ahead to the upcoming week and weekend. I have nothing planned as of this time. Maybe it will be housework, but I do know that I need to get out of the house. I want to have another weekend in which I don't burst into tears.
Progress has been achingly slow. I question constantly whether it is progress in regards to R. The longing and hoping is there, but I have very little to build on in terms of it.
I'm constantly reading the Detachment thread so that I can continue to work on it as I feel it's very difficult. Whether it's been 49 days or 130, the process has been crawling. I'm still thinking of W and OM. I'm thinking of her going to the con with her friend and I get bothered by the thought that she will introduce OM to her friend there, hence the reason why she can't go with my D4 and me. I question whether her suggestion of me flying down to my family for Thanksgiving is her plotting to introduce OM to her family. I don't know. It swarms my mind and it's hurting me.
What I can say is that the last 49 days there have been no arguments or heated discussions of our sitch. DBing is now a conscious thought and action process. The clarity of this process is becoming sharper by the day. GAL is taking the lead of this process. 180 is second.
I'm still haunted by the events three weeks ago. I'm kicking myself for snooping. I should have known better. The snooping set me way back in terms of my emotional healing. It triggered a depression that I never thought I would have to encounter again. I keep asking myself if I will ever fall in love again. I long for intimacy and the lack of it hurts immensely.
I know I'm a lot more confident in who I am as a person and I'm carrying myself as such. I feel like a battle-worn solder who is living to fight another day. Morale goes up and down constantly and that wears me out.
Saw myself in the mirror and noticing the changes in my body. Good changes. I'm continuing the process of loving my body again and treating it the way it deserves.
DB coach session 3 this week. MC the day after.
Hang in there it’s a challenge. I have been back and forth in 5 months but the last month has been a lot easier once you commit to detachment and GAL. It’s hard to move forward alone but I confide in friends and family who have had to move on as well and there is light at the end of the tunnel. They tell me they wish they had only moved forward sooner.
Hang in there Pain. One day at a time...one hour at a time...and sometimes 1 minute at a time.
I too know the pain of snooping. I was things that i wish to God i never saw at this point. I do my best to stay away from it at this point. I found the proof i needed and anything more at this point would be self inflicted torture.
I need to stop listening to love songs.
"It's A Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)"
Day 50/131:
Up early again. Maybe another coincidence that I need to do my morning prayers. So I did them. Before that I was in a dream in which I was in a (seemingly) legit massage parlor. I was met by a middle-aged woman who gave me a menu of services. One of the services involved drinking a relaxing tea while cuddling with her. I told her about my sitch and how it's been so long since I've been touched and that I could use some skin to skin contact. She left the room to get ready...and then I woke up. I woke up realizing that it has been months since I have had any skin-to-skin contact. And I'm heartbroken at the thought of having to wait at least many months more. No one knows how much longer I have to endure this. Growth is amazing, and I'm thankful that I am able to accomplish things that I never thought possible, but I would just like a reprieve from this. Whether it's a form of physical affection or something else (safe and healthy), any prolonged distraction so that I can take my mind off of this completely would be wonderful right about now.
My post is screaming "He's desperate." Yep, I know. That's why I'm getting this out here rather in real life.
Work in one hour.
Mid-day update:
Anxiety lurking deep. The urge to pursue W is there constantly, some worse than others. The feeling is also a roller coaster ride. I want the companionship. I miss it. I think about calling the provider but then realize almost immediately that it's a bad idea. I toy with the idea of posting a personal ad for a casual encounter, but then I realize that it's also a bad idea. So I'm still stuck in this limbo, but that's to be expected when traversing a journey that is as difficult as this one. I don't know how long I want to stay in this position. I still have a date in mind of finality of my living sitch if I'm still stuck in this limbo. That being said, the slow and calculated steps I'm making with my W is being received fairly well. If I continue to see progress I will move my date further out. But, I also feel that if she is plotting to make OM her future partner, I am going to make my decision sooner. I hope that it does not come to that. I really do not. But I do not control that.
My W is also noticing of my conscious detachment from her. She still asks how I'm doing, but it's not as often. Maybe twice or three times per week. I do not know if she caught on to my plan of letting her go, but I also know that it does not matter because I'm making the changes for me, not her. When I'm GAL without D4, contact is very little. With D4 it's a little more. I take what I can get. Some days are going to be better than others. I just don't want to slide backwards in terms of progress towards R, if that is happening in the background.
I know I'm better off now than I was 50 days ago. I feel it. I'm making the changes to me permanent and it's showing in my thoughts, my behaviors, my attitude, and my actions. I'm starting to be ever more confident in myself, physically, mentally, and emotionally. I'm carrying myself as such. I do not know if that will be validated by women who interact with me, but I know the other way of pity and self-sorrow in an attempt for attraction was not working at all.
Maybe it's the fact that I'm physically lonely and I'm craving that mutual touch and the urges to pursue that feeling in hopes of relief is growing daily, but I do not know what constructive way I can get it without consequence (pursuit, risk of issues, harassment, etc.). There has to be a way to vent that frustration safely. There needs to be...right?
However I get out of this, I know I cannot go through this again. The scars of this sitch will last a lifetime. The pain from this will likely never go away. The nightmares will continue.
All because I took the marriage for granted.
Painful, painful lesson. And I'm reminded of the pain constantly.
Important question:
Is it considered pursuit if I ask W to have a friendly cup of coffee this evening? I will establish the boundary that it's only as a friend and nothing more.
Or should I plan family dates for the time being until I see something more consistent from her?
Yes. It is pursuit.
Be the lighthouse.
It sounds to me today is not one of your better days, so maybe not a good day to meet. Just my feeling.
Yes. It is pursuit.
Be the lighthouse.
It sounds to me today is not one of your better days, so maybe not a good day to meet. Just my feeling.
Heh...makes sense. That being said, I have these down moments daily.
Edit: Read the lighthouse part in full this time. I needed that cold splash of water. Thanks.
Did not meet. Did not bring coffee hangout. Went about my life tonight.
I feel like I’m in the doldrums. I hate sitting idle but I hate going backward even more.
My patience is being tested like never before.
Moving forward pain. It takes times so you´ll need patience. Keep DBing, no coffee, no tea.
Is it common that sometimes it feels like nothing is happening and that’s not a good thing?
Yes it's common b/c progress is made slowly, and sometimes you go backwards and then forwards again. Don't get caught up too much on measuring it, just keep working.
What have you done that was really fun lately? You sound like you need to cut loose.
Yes it's common b/c progress is made slowly, and sometimes you go backwards and then forwards again. Don't get caught up too much on measuring it, just keep working.
What have you done that was really fun lately? You sound like you need to cut loose.
Dude...I went to friggin' Canada last weekend...by myself. It was awesome! But lonely.
GAL lately has revolved around either hanging out doing stuff by myself or with my D4. Othewise, I have been lifting and working on my physical health.
I should probably make some friends.
Day 51/132:
Hitting a depression dip. Different roller coaster feeling and I'm losing hope. I'm feeling that even though other parts of my life are getting better my relationship sitch is not good. It's mirroring the struggles I went through before I met W and I'm very sad at the possibility of history repeating itself. I hate to say that being in an R is a major thing for me, because everyone will tell me that "it happens when you least expect it" and "work on yourself", etc. So I'm working on that. I'm GAL. I'm trying not to pursue. I'm going to need to 180, even when it comes to DBing. For the last 8 weeks, W has been mostly contacting me. The 180 part feels that I need to contact W from time to time. Just to say "hi" or what have you.
I don't know. I just know that I'm hitting a different type of low. The thought of having to endure this awful cycle for years depresses me further. Everything has an end, even this sitch.
I just don't know when that will be. I hope things get better and resolved sooner rather than later, but the more I go through this, the more questions I have than answers.
It's really not helping me that my loneliness revolves around my physical needs. I feel ashamed admitting as much, but I also cannot hold back my true feelings. This stinks and I am admitting that to you.
I´m sorry you are feeling this way. You know, cycles can also move up or down so anyway it´s up to you where you are going to be standing. You can be on the up, surfing them or down there, getting drowned.
I love surfing, do you?
I´m sorry you are feeling this way. You know, cycles can also move up or down so anyway it´s up to you where you are going to be standing. You can be on the up, surfing them or down there, getting drowned.
I love surfing, do you?
Nope.
But I get the analogy. I just never thought I would have to encounter the same awful waves again. I thought this was past me. And it's not. It's back and it's just as awful as I remembered it.
Maybe it´s about where those waves encounter YOU. Surf the waves pain!
Journaling:
Full-on retreat. W tried to call twice. I did not pick up. The fact that we talk for a minute or two then hangup is just sad. I don't want to do that anymore. Texted finances.
Damnit.
Further journaling:
Texted business and finances some more with W. Had to cancel one October trip due to finances. W suggested I go and see my friend. Told her that I will not go when friend and her spouse are working on their marriage. Clarified that I do not want to borrow their problems and bring it back to our house. I told her that I will plan on something. W acknowledged it. She made more small chat. I answered. Talked more about finances and discussed sitting down and ironing out our needs vs. wants. No acknowledgements. Just received pictures of D4 in dress for a class.
I tried to show that I was not depressed or sad through my texts, just busy. Change from what I used to do because I'm realizing that being and acting pitiful and "Woe is me" is not attractive. That being said, it's something I have to think about doing/not doing, so I'm still learning and growing.
Going to lift tonight and plan on reading a bedtime story to D4. Other than that...I have no clue what I'm doing tonight. I may study, I may edit my pictures from my recent trip, but I don't have plans with anyone tonight. Meetup is suggesting divorce/separation support groups. So...that's a no go.
Even sitting idle is torture. I know that I can't expect growth and progress daily and regularly, but I still long for my desired resolution while I continue to work on GAL, 180, and Detaching. My loneliness is making it really hard...and desperate. And that's not good.
You are talking too much to her. Don't tell her why or why you aren't going somewhere. Cut the small chat.
Meetup has lots of groups, you should be going for fun not to be thinking about your sitch all the time.
You are talking too much to her. Don't tell her why or why you aren't going somewhere. Cut the small chat.
Meetup has lots of groups, you should be going for fun not to be thinking about your sitch all the time.
Understood.
You are talking too much to her. Don't tell her why or why you aren't going somewhere. Cut the small chat.
Meetup has lots of groups, you should be going for fun not to be thinking about your sitch all the time.
Understood.
The more you interact as normal and tell her everything you're doing and why, the more she knows you're still there for her and the less reason she has to change the situation. It [censored], because you want to have your old W back. But she is gone.
I do this too, just last night laying next to my W. I wanted to reach out and hold her. But I'm still thinking about the sweet girl I married, not the unrepentant, depressed liar and cheater. So I level out and say "Hello?" to myself before doing that crap. Both our W's have a long ways to go, if they ever do go.
I hear you. That being said, as AS has mentioned, W knows I’m hoping/longing for her. I see a different, more confident W. That’s who I have always wanted. W also knows I cannot and will not wait in limbo. I cannot keep couch surfing. I cannot keep an irregular schedule. And I cannot wait for my second chance. She knows all of that.
I would do a lot for some tangible progress. And I’m doing a lot already.
The hard road is hard.
In addition, I’m not the same person as before either. I’m becoming stronger, happier, more adventurous, and more self-confident. W’s H is not the same man anymore.
He’s being reborn.
Pain,
I read your story and its very similar to mine. I rooting for you. You are where I think I will be soon. I'm going on the rollercoaster of emotion by the hour. From strong and confident to lonely. I know the struggle and hate it. Keep your head up. I'm going to start following you and hope it helps me.
Thank you Stryk.
The more I have thought about it, the more I realize that the S may have saved my life. I did not realize how toxic and unhealthy we both became to outselves over the last few years. We're becoming better individuals.
It started to turn around when I started to focus more on what I can control: Myself.
That meant getting back to my roots. The man W fell in love with. Will it work a second time? I hope so. That being said, I am loving the stronger, more confident me more and more daily. So if W decides that it's too late, I'm going to make W2 a very happy and very lucky woman.
I am starting to feel that things are getting better for me. My sitch with W is still a question mark, but two months in (day 54/135) I'm seeing noticable changes in the way we interact with each other. We barely talk or text. But it feels like when we do talk or text, it's more the quality of it.
You have control overself, Stryk. Your W has her own journey to go through.
One more thing, I was very skeptical when others told me that the gap between pain gets larger as time goes by.
My skepticism has been put to pasture. I'm starting to have better days than not. And my anxiety has gone down as well. It flares up every now and then, but it's MUCH better than it was two weeks ago.
Work on yourself. Work on yourself. Work on yourself. This is key.
Yeah! And 😃 while doing it
In addition, I’m not the same person as before either. I’m becoming stronger, happier, more adventurous, and more self-confident. W’s H is not the same man anymore.
He’s being reborn.
Keep it up pain, just dropping a few lines to see how you doing and showing some love. Keep your head up. I'm rooting for you. Peace!
In addition, I’m not the same person as before either. I’m becoming stronger, happier, more adventurous, and more self-confident. W’s H is not the same man anymore.
He’s being reborn.
Keep it up pain, just dropping a few lines to see how you doing and showing some love. Keep your head up. I'm rooting for you. Peace!
Appreciate the love, brother. I’m gaining speed towards something really special.
100th post of this thread. I'll end this one on a high note.
Day 57/138:
My trip to Canada is over a week old, but in that week, I have never felt happier and more satisfied with my life right now. My anxiety has gone down tremendously. Call it coincidence. Call it a combination of healthy life choices, fantastic support from my family, friends, counselors, and this forum. Call it time healing my wounds. I'm feeling good about myself. I'm loving myself more. I feel more attractive physically. The weight lifting regimen that I have been religiously following for six weeks and counting is giving me the confidence I have been lacking for a very long time. I carry my confidence everywhere. Shoulders back, heads up, and looking people in the eye when I talk. My W, my friends, my coworkers, everyone. I'm saying "I'm an awesome, confident dude. Look at how awesome I am" with my mannerisms. I'm taking better care of myself. Shaving regularly, tucking in my shirt, cologne, and sharp clothes for the right occasion.
I've been getting in touch with my spiritual roots more. I'm praying 5 times per day and this time, it doesn't feel compulsory. I feel a sense of calm, warmth, and, dare I say it, hope when I pray. I do feel God's healing through me. Something that I have not felt in a very long time.
My job is going great. My boss called me in and commented on my remarkable turnaround in the last 60 days. A little backstory: my 90 day review was atrocious. My boss felt like my skills did not match my salary and I was put on notice that I may see a reduction in pay if I do not step it up. 60 days later, I did not only step it up, I leaped. They are now talking about giving me an earned perk like a company car...which would be a huge accomplishment. My formal 180 day review is in "3-5 weeks". I'm working hard and loving my new job. And my hard work is seeing results.
My R with my parents is getting better. I'm calling my mom daily, which is something I have not done in over 20 years. And it's all been good talk. Talks of hope, and talks of support. My mom has been my support as I deal with my sitch. And that has been key in my healing. My father...it's pretty good, but I can only take so much of him before I need to excuse myself. I am setting boundaries with him and when he encroaches them, I let him know.
D4 relationship is great. She is my starlight. We have a lot of fun when we're together. Then again, it's always been like that. It just keeps getting better with D4 and I.
And then...there is the sitch with my W. The reason why I came here in the first place. We're slowly building a cautious friendship. We're having more quality talks. There is more laughing. More teamwork, and more support. It feels like when we talk we want to continue to talk for longer than a few minutes. Last night, we had dinner together and we talked for nearly an hour. Nothing serious. Just chatter. A few hearty genuine laughs, and some planning for the week ahead. Also, this may seem insignificant, but I finally made physical contact with her (holding her thumb while I looked at her nails). The touch felt...right. Nothing was forced. It just came naturally. And it felt wonderful. We're purposely not seeing much of each other, which is seemingly turning out to be a good thing. When we do see each other, it feels...happy for both of us. Maybe it's just my feelings. Maybe I'm delusional. Whatever it is, I'm taking it as another small sign of hope.
I still do not know how the story of W and I will end. I hope it's R. But I'm coming to the realization daily that it will be ok if it does not. It will be a tremendous loss for her. I'm an awesome dude. And the woman who will fall in love with me will feel and be the luckiest person in the world, because she is in a relationship with an awesome, amazing man.
Part V:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2814244&#Post2814244